From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 1 03:20:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i817KJ2e026609 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 03:20:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i817JV4d021540 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Sep 2004 01:19:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i817JUxv078358; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 01:19:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i817JTxv078337 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 01:19:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9D89110BE for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 00:19:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040901001325.00b14368@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 00:19:27 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kimiko Small Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Straight trim, curved places X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all, New question for those of you who have worked with trims a lot. I tend to work with cording and other forms of decoration, so I haven't done much with wider trims. I am trying to figure out how to make a wide 2.5" Jacquard trim go around curves? The trim is not very stretchy, and I would like for it to go around the bottom of a man's base. I am making my husband a Henry VIII style doublet with attached base, and the base is a circle skirt that I will organ pleat into place. I am also hoping to make it go around the shallow curve around the neck and tummy areas. Any suggestions? Or would it be better to find/make a bias trim instead? Any and all help would be greatly appreciated. Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 1 04:33:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i818XINB016501 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 04:33:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8175v4d020936 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Sep 2004 01:05:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8175lxv071260; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 01:05:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8174rxv070950 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 01:05:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E5A31107D for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 00:04:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040831234506.00b13e50@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 00:04:49 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] standards of reply (was: breast exposure article) In-Reply-To: <4c5accc8040831204826eadb4c@mail.gmail.com> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040831200642.00b13e50@64.87.54.245> <5.2.1.1.0.20040831200642.00b13e50@64.87.54.245> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:48 PM 8/31/2004 -0400, you wrote: >I'm going to jump in on this volatile band wagon with this there *is* >places on the web with guidelines and some of them are very old >ancient documents written by the elders of the internet (well that's >my tongue in cheek statement anyhow) >Please see: >http://www.cse.ohio-state.edu/cgi-bin/rfc/rfc1855.html >http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=Cv8JK7.2xI%40deshaw.com >http://www.cse.ohio-state.edu/cs/Services/rfc/index.html >http://www.cse.ohio-state.edu/cgi-bin/rfc/rfc1855.html >http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?TrimYourPosts I admit, I stand corrected, as I was not specific about guidelines. There are indeed Internet guidelines, but as the first link states in the first sentence (also found under the third link): "This memo does not specify an Internet *standard* of any kind" (emphasis mine). Ah, and link #3 led me to a friend's favorite corollary, just for the amusement factor: (3) With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. I also do not mean this to be in any way something volatile. We can try to follow guidelines best we can, such as clipping for bandwidth control (see link #5, TrimYourPosts), which I heartily support especially for the short "me too" type comments after long entries, but we can in no way really make everyone follow one set of "standards" in how we reply to a comment. I do agree to general Netiquette, which hopefully we can all learn and follow to one degree or another. Viva le difference! Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 1 04:40:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i818etRL018364 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 04:40:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i818eG4d025095 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Sep 2004 02:40:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i818eAxv017535; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 02:40:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from indirectobject.com (066-241-084-045.bus.ashlandfiber.net [66.241.84.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i818e6xv017490 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 02:40:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rreed@indirectobject.com) Message-Id: <200409010840.i818e6xv017490@net.indra.com> Received: from synergy ([192.168.1.1]) by indirectobject.com (WWW [192.168.1.200]) (MDaemon.PRO.v6.8.5.R) with ESMTP id 35-md50000000022.tmp for ; Wed, 01 Sep 2004 01:42:43 -0700 From: To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Straight trim, curved places Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 01:39:08 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20040901001325.00b14368@64.87.54.245> Thread-Index: AcSP9Nrexk9ybe6QQResuCCBXZgvfgACdKNg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Processed: WWW, Wed, 01 Sep 2004 01:42:43 -0700 (not processed: message from valid local sender) X-MDRemoteIP: 192.168.1.1 X-Return-Path: rreed@indirectobject.com X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I am trying to figure out how to make a wide 2.5" Jacquard trim go around curves? The trim is not very stretchy, and I would like for it to go around the bottom of a man's base. I am making my husband a Henry VIII style doublet with attached base, and the base is a circle skirt that I will organ pleat into place. The last time I applied trim around curves was with a cotton-based trim on a tunic neckline. I steamed and pressed it on only one edge and it developed the curve I was looking for. Takes a lot of patience, but it can be done. It didn't give me any trouble after washing it, either. I don't think this will work with synthetic trims (not sure what you're using), but you can try it. Of course, bias tape is always the easiest route! Becky _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 1 05:14:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i819Ed6a031086 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 05:14:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i819DV4d026989 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Sep 2004 03:13:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i819DRxv033358; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 03:13:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i819DDxv033183 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 03:13:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.147.222]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i819Cwcf015059 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 19:12:58 +1000 Message-ID: <006f01c49003$c91ae0a0$de93d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <197.2dd6a629.2e6515dc@aol.com> <4133E0CA.7060100@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Parental sewing issues : was baggy pants Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 19:12:17 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > (heck, I remember opening up the side seams of the ones we thought > weren't wide enough, and adding wedges of fabric--either matching or > contrasting) A girl at my school did much the same thing, but she didn't unpick the seam, no, she just cut a slit roughly parallel with the seam outside leg seam on a pair of relatively new quite good looking black trousers. She then sewed a contrasting triangular wedge in to the slit but she didn't do a proper seam so the raw edge of the trousers was showing over the contrasting panel, but she was happy with it so I didn't make a fuss about certainly a lot of her friends were cooing about how good it would look when she went out clubbing and what a good job she had done. So I assume she was happy with it. Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra Australia ewalpole@austar.net.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 1 06:51:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i81ApbbG031586 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 06:51:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81ACu4d000772 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Sep 2004 04:12:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81ACixv061470; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 04:12:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta13.adelphia.net (mta13.adelphia.net [68.168.78.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81ACfxv061412 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 04:12:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from randl@adelphia.net) Received: from adelphia.net ([69.169.191.94]) by mta13.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.02 201-2131-111-104-20040324) with ESMTP id <20040901101236.NSHI24693.mta13.adelphia.net@adelphia.net> for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 06:12:36 -0400 Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 06:12:35 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] pattern for jacket? Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: randl@adelphia.net To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <200409010250.i812oexw036327@net.indra.com> Message-Id: <721B7885-FBFF-11D8-8DFA-000393D2F36E@adelphia.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here's a site selling repro patterns. Two patterns you may wish to look at would be 201 and 101. I've never used them, but word-of-mouth is that they're good. http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/patterns/index.html Hope this helps. Laurie On Tuesday, August 31, 2004, at 10:50 PM, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: > >> Does anyone know of an available pattern for a jacket like the one >> below? >> >> http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/collection/news/acquisitions/ >> beuck4.htm >> >> Thanks! >> >> ********************** >> Rebecca Schmitt > -- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 1 07:00:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i81B0NZg031611 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 07:00:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81AhG4d002077 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Sep 2004 04:43:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81AhExv075939; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 04:43:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81AhBxv075845 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 04:43:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0331.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.81.76]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E865BEA34 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 12:43:01 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4135A7B5.4060101@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 12:43:01 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] houppelandes References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks! Yes I made her headdress. I made two little horns from leather and buckram. They are attached to a linnen 4cm wide headband. In the original veils the ruffels are woven in but that is a little hard to do. So I sewed a small ruffle to the edge of the veil. Te veil is attached to the points of the horns, just beside the horns and in the middle of the forehead to the linnen band. I put a picture up that shows the veil a bit better. http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade/CostumeG/15thDress.html Greetings, Deredere Gail & Scott Finke wrote: >Derdere: > >Those look great! No wonder they are pleased. Did you make the lady's >headdress too? How does it work? > >Gail Finke > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 1 08:29:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i81CTESK031935 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 08:29:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81CSY4d016142 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Sep 2004 06:28:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81CSWxv036303; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 06:28:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81BL6xw095352 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 05:21:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i81BOVv9015434 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 07:24:32 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Parental sewing issues : was baggy pants Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 07:30:15 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <197.2dd6a629.2e6515dc@aol.com> <4133E0CA.7060100@in-tch.com> <006f01c49003$c91ae0a0$de93d6cb@ewalpole> In-Reply-To: <006f01c49003$c91ae0a0$de93d6cb@ewalpole> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200409010730.16038.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1074; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 01 September 2004 5:12 am, Elizabeth Walpole wrote: > > A girl at my school did much the same thing, but she didn't unpick the > seam, no, she just cut a slit roughly parallel with the seam outside leg > seam on a pair of relatively new quite good looking black trousers. She > then sewed a contrasting triangular wedge in to the slit but she didn't do > a proper seam so the raw edge of the trousers was showing over the > contrasting panel, but she was happy with it so I didn't make a fuss about > certainly a lot of her friends were cooing about how good it would look > when she went out clubbing and what a good job she had done. So I assume > she was happy with it. Elizabeth Presumably she got the effect she wanted. That's one of the major tests of a good costume, isn't it? :-) -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 1 08:30:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i81CUaXl031943 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 08:30:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81CTu4d016242 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Sep 2004 06:29:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81CTtxv037088; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 06:29:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81BRaxw099294 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 05:27:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i81BV2q3015695 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 07:31:03 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] houppelandes Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 07:36:47 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <4135A7B5.4060101@kabelfoon.nl> In-Reply-To: <4135A7B5.4060101@kabelfoon.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200409010736.47501.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-DCC-COLLEGEOFNEWCALEDONIA-Metrics: net.indra.com 1189; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 01 September 2004 6:43 am, Deredere Galbraith wrote: > Thanks! > > Yes I made her headdress. > I made two little horns from leather and buckram. > They are attached to a linnen 4cm wide headband. That looks so much like the period examples! Well done! -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 1 08:31:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i81CVsgm031948 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 08:31:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81CVI4d016359 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Sep 2004 06:31:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81CVIxv037876; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 06:31:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81Bl0xv010976 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 05:47:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gia_gavino@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.118 ([204.127.197.118]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <20040901114653014008k2gje>; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 11:46:53 +0000 Received: from [24.16.244.181] by 204.127.197.118; Wed, 01 Sep 2004 11:46:51 +0000 From: gia_gavino@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Straight trim, curved places Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 11:46:51 +0000 Message-Id: <090120041146.28670.4135B6AB0002FA7300006FFE2200750784010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Jul 16 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: Z2lhX2dhdmlub0Bjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've used two different application techniques: 1) the tuck and small pleating (the depth of pleast depending on the trim but usually not more than 1/4") at *regular* intervals and 2) doing a long basting or running stitch at the inside curved edge. The first one I use when I need to go around a very tight curve or the trim is *very* wide and I need to go around even a small curve. The second one I use for the trim and curving requirements that will benefit from the gentle curving that happens when the basting thread is pulled. In both techniques, generous and careful steam pressing can make the trim lie more smoothly in the curve. Be very careful of any "mylar/metallic" and Rayon/Acetate content! Use extreme caution or you'll end up with shrivelled bits of scorched trim. I'm looking forward to learning more techniques too! I hope this helps! Good luck! -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > > >I am trying to figure out how to make a wide 2.5" Jacquard trim go around > curves? The trim is not very stretchy, and I would like for it to go around > the bottom of a man's base. I am making my husband a Henry VIII style > doublet with attached base, and the base is a circle skirt that I will > organ pleat into place. > > The last time I applied trim around curves was with a cotton-based trim on a > tunic neckline. I steamed and pressed it on only one edge and it developed > the curve I was looking for. Takes a lot of patience, but it can be done. > It didn't give me any trouble after washing it, either. I don't think this > will work with synthetic trims (not sure what you're using), but you can try > it. Of course, bias tape is always the easiest route! > > Becky > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 1 09:01:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i81D1NxD032338 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 09:01:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81D0B4d017977 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Sep 2004 07:00:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81D07xv052808; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 07:00:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81D05xw052776 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 07:00:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i81CwUTA011960 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 08:58:30 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 01 Sep 2004 08:58:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4135C7D3.9020409@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 09:00:03 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] standards of reply References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040831200642.00b13e50@64.87.54.245> <5.2.1.1.0.20040831200642.00b13e50@64.87.54.245> <5.2.1.1.0.20040831234506.00b13e50@64.87.54.245> In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20040831234506.00b13e50@64.87.54.245> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kimiko Small wrote: > I admit, I stand corrected, as I was not specific about guidelines. > There are indeed Internet guidelines, but as the first link states in > the first sentence (also found under the third link): "This memo does > not specify an Internet *standard* of any kind" (emphasis mine). In the tech world, the term "standard" means a very specific thing, agreed on by parties who make different computing platforms and software, not the way the rest of the world uses it. There are large conferences and discussion groups who hammer these things out so that everyone's stuff will work with everyone else's; the IETF, for example. It's sort of like a traffic law (and some companies violate them even so). So the guidelines aren't a standard in that sense, which is why they say it isn't, I think. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent If they keep adding obscure sports to the Olympics, it's only a matter of time before somebody gets a gold medal for making balloon animals. I think they should combine some of these sports. Like, they could combine fencing and trampoline into one sport, called ''fampoline.'' I'd pay good money to see that. -- Dave Barry _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 1 09:48:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i81DmJYw032668 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 09:48:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81Dla4d021058 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Sep 2004 07:47:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81DlSxv079793; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 07:47:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81DlPxv079726 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 07:47:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gia_gavino@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.114 ([204.127.197.114]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <2004090113471101300hlkjme>; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 13:47:19 +0000 Received: from [24.16.244.181] by 204.127.197.114; Wed, 01 Sep 2004 13:47:09 +0000 From: gia_gavino@comcast.net To: h-costume@indra.com (Costume Historical), wyewood@wyewood.org (Shire of Wyewood), aquaterratextiles@yahoogroups.com (Aquaterra Textiles), bowslairelist@yahoogroups.com (Bowslaire List), Reeds@baronyofaquaterra.org (Reeds Aquaterra) Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 13:47:09 +0000 Message-Id: <090120041347.13728.4135D2DD00087707000035A02200750330010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Jul 16 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: Z2lhX2dhdmlub0Bjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Additional Email address X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I now have a second personal email address I can receive email at: ggavino@myuw.net Please feel free to add to your address book! -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 1 09:51:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i81DpJOS032703 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 09:51:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81Doh4d021418 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Sep 2004 07:50:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81Dofxv081605; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 07:50:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81DmLxv080212 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 07:48:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Cheryldee@aol.com) Received: from Cheryldee@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.4.) id 6.da.12fd243a (4560) for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 09:48:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Cheryldee@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 09:48:10 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Straight trim, curved places To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5031 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/1/2004 1:21:12 AM Mountain Daylight Time, kimiko@kimiko1.com writes: I am also hoping to make it go around the shallow curve around the neck and tummy areas. Any suggestions? Or would it be better to find/make a bias trim instead? Any and all help would be greatly appreciated. You could either lay a basting stitch around the inner edge (the edge of the curve you want to be smaller) and pull it up to fit before sewing it down or you could make tiny darts in the areas where it seems to be called for. The neck will probably have to be a combination of both, as it is more curved. The darts are tricky, as if they are too big, they will produce a small angle at the point, which destroys the curve you wish to achieve. Some trims can be steamed into a curved shape, depends on how they're made. If your trim doesn't have a bound edge, I suggest you try that, too. Cheryl Odom _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 1 10:03:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i81E3mXi000314 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 10:03:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81E2p4d022295 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Sep 2004 08:02:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81E2hxv088825; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 08:02:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m20.mx.aol.com (imo-m20.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81E2Vxv088679 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 08:02:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.4.) id 6.1db.2a7f2644 (4529) for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 10:02:23 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1db.2a7f2644.2e67306f@aol.com> Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 10:02:23 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] pattern for jacket? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 8/31/2004 10:37:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, lotsofteapots@charter.net writes: > But again, no > seams shown anywhere (no side, no back, no side back, not even shoulders!) > I'm pretty certain it would be impossible to get a jacket cut out in one > piece ;-) so any suggestions are great. I wouldn't angst over seam placement that much. You know [or can find out] where the seams in such garments usually go and putting them there, even if they are not depicted in a painting, is not being historically inaccurate. In the painting posted, there is a seam at the waist. You can see it. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 1 10:18:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i81EIgWO000398 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 10:18:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81EGo4d023354 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Sep 2004 08:16:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81EGkxv097707; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 08:16:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81EGfxv097652 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 08:16:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m41.in-tch.com [216.166.191.41]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i81EG0808558 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 08:16:00 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <4135DAC5.3040503@in-tch.com> Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 08:20:53 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] standards of reply References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm getting the sense (from my post last night, and the responses) that, like most people, we all seem to prefer what we're most accustomed to using! Both of the email programs I use (netscape at home and outlook at work) default to the top-down. It's only when I'm replying to a message done in some sort of enriched text format (when you get all the fancy fonts and such) that I find it easy to intersperse my responses with the original posts. Robin had a good point about business correspondence--that was indeed my first exposure to email (and I'm not on any usenet group that I know of ). If you're canny, at my company, you always include the entire text of the previous message, so it took me a while to get the hang of this cutting out of the extraneous bits! --sue, trying and failing to find OCC for this! Wanda Pease wrote: > I use Outlook both at work and here at home. I read most of my mail via the > preview page, and it drives me nuts when someone has a one liner reply to a > long post and puts it at the bottom. I have to scroll through everything, > and just to add insult to injury the reply line is right at the bottom of > the quoted passage making it hard to find (grumble, waste of time, grumble > :-). > > I think Kimiko has the answer that our tastes are formed by the particular > browser we are using so one size just isn't going to fit us all here either! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 1 10:35:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i81EZe9B000452 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 10:35:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81EYK4d025030 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Sep 2004 08:34:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81EYHxv010423; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 08:34:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav28.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81EYExv010345 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 08:34:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 07:34:08 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by bay9-dav28.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 01 Sep 2004 14:34:08 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040901001325.00b14368@64.87.54.245> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Straight trim, curved places Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 10:34:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Sep 2004 14:34:08.0620 (UTC) FILETIME=[BD8D4AC0:01C49030] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I am trying to figure out how to make a wide 2.5" Jacquard trim go around > curves? The trim is not very stretchy, and I would like for it to go around > the bottom of a man's base. > I am also hoping to make it go around the shallow curve around the neck and > tummy areas. Someone showed me an example where trim was pleated (actually, I think it was velvet ribbon, but it was a b&w photocopy) to create a design on the ground fabric. Think vines or scrolls, usual drapery designs, but made with ribbon. It was surprising to see pleating used that way. I think you could do the same thing with your trim and actually pleat it where it's too wide to go around the curve. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 1 10:39:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i81Ed0aQ000460 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 10:39:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81EcJ4d025368 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Sep 2004 08:38:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81EcIxv013168; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 08:38:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail3.mdx.safepages.com (mail3.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81EcCxv013100 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 08:38:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail3.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id C2D1288F1D; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 14:38:10 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust176.tnt2.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.178.176]) by mail3.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 203CE88EB2 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 14:37:53 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <00db01c49031$93c49df0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Straight trim, curved places Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 09:39:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Even with the poly/acetate/etc trims, I've had some luck with ironing into shape. I use the lowest possible setting, and a pressing cloth, and press the back side ofthe trim; by pulling to one side I can get a pretty impressive curve. However, I don't work with trim that much, so I've only tried it on a few ~1" pieces for necklines. I hope it works for 3+" trim, because I'm planning on making a copy of a Waterhouse Pre-Raph gown, and right now I'm thinking of using a 5 1/2" trim for it--oy. This is a topical thread for me! =} -E _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 1 10:53:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i81Er7IB000479 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 10:53:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81EqE4d026608 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Sep 2004 08:52:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81EqCxv023189; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 08:52:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net (mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.48]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81EpJxv022579 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 08:51:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Received: from 209-165-41-175.jps.net ([209.165.41.175] helo=KALC) by mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1C2WSD-00006X-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 01 Sep 2004 07:51:18 -0700 From: "lisa-list" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] standards of reply Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 07:51:07 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <4135DAC5.3040503@in-tch.com> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sue wrote: >I'm getting the sense (from my post last night, and the responses) that, like most people, we all seem to prefer what we're most accustomed to using! Personally, I'm just greatful that some people take the time out of their busy lives to reply and share such wonderful information regardless of the form they decide to put it in. I have higher standards in my professinal life, but I don't sit around judging the email formats of posters. It's really not all that hard for me to scroll up, down etc. Lisa Sinervo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 1 11:16:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i81FGM5J000636 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 11:16:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81FF04d029266 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Sep 2004 09:15:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81FEwxv040559; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 09:14:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f40.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81FCCxv038218 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 09:12:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 08:10:44 -0700 Received: from 129.244.6.162 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 01 Sep 2004 15:10:43 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.162] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 10:10:43 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Sep 2004 15:10:44.0107 (UTC) FILETIME=[DA2A05B0:01C49035] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: standards of reply (was: breast exposure article) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >A side note, not on this topic: Those of you who are relatively new to > >email discussions may not know that it is standard to put comments and > >replies under what you're replying to (if you quote it at all). Having > >your bit on top can be confusing, because it's harder to follow the flow > >of discussion. > >Cynthia Virtue and/or I have to say that while -I- prefer interlining my responses with the various quotations, I have learned that many mailers automatically force top-posting, and it is strongly encouraged by by many (generally the same people IMO who get fussy about interlining because it's so easy for the unscrupulous to quote out of context. Top posting does have the theoretical benefit of retaining contextual integrity, while making it so that you don't have to scroll through the entire history of the discussion unless you want to, or are taking the digest format. Having spent now over a quarter of my life top posting, I'm not inclined to change it, but I do recognize that it is likely to change around me. Marc _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 1 11:26:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i81FQ2i4000676 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 11:26:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81FOh4d000583 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Sep 2004 09:24:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81FO7xv047912; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 09:24:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81FNGxv047365 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 09:23:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13254 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 10:29:42 -0500 Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 10:29:42 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Straight trim, curved places In-Reply-To: <00db01c49031$93c49df0$0400a8c0@compaqub> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wed, 1 Sep 2004, E House wrote: > I'm planning on making a copy of a Waterhouse Pre-Raph gown, and right > now I'm thinking of using a 5 1/2" trim for it--oy. This is a topical > thread for me! =} Assuming you haven't already bought your trim: I've found a workable way to get the effect of very wide trims is to use several compatible narrower trims. For instance, put a narrow trim along the edge, then a wider trim just beyond that, then the narrow trim outside that one. If you don't leave any of the ground fabric showing, the result can look like a single wide band of trim, but without the problem of trying to warp it into place around a curve. You can use as many layers as you need, e.g. two narrow, one wider, two narrow. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 1 11:54:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i81FsJSY001093 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 11:54:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81FrN4d003676 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Sep 2004 09:53:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81FrFxv071205; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 09:53:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81FrBxv071041 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 09:53:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from webwarren@earthlink.net) Received: from jessie2.webwarren.com (pcp0010285386pcs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.44.18.221]) by webwarren.com (8.12.10/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i81Fq62J026875 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 11:52:15 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <6.0.3.0.0.20040901114548.0692c3e0@earthlink.net> X-Sender: n2kye@mail.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.3.0 Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 11:50:50 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Subject: Re: [h-cost] Straight trim, curved places In-Reply-To: <200409011044.i81Aicxw076509@net.indra.com> References: <200409011044.i81Aicxw076509@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At Wed, 01 Sep 2004 00:19:27 -0700, Kimiko Small wrote: >I am trying to figure out how to make a wide 2.5" Jacquard trim go around >curves? It doesn't work too well for sharp curves, but one method is to sew a long gathering thread at one edge of the trim. This edge of the trim will go along the smaller side of the curve. Sew/baste the other edge of the trim to the outside/larger edge of the curve. Pin-baste the inside edge, placing the pins perpendicular to the edge of the trim. Draw up the gathering thread until the inside edge of the trim fits the smaller side of the curve. Sew/baste, and (if the trim will support it), steam it to set. On a compound ("s") curve, sew gathering threads along both edges and treat the same way. For more information on this technique, look up "heirloom sewing" techniques for "insertion lace". Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 1 12:34:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i81GY79q001727 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 12:34:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81GX44d008610 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Sep 2004 10:33:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81GWnxv004165; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 10:32:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.reddawn.net (rrcs-west-67-52-227-118.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81GWZxv003896 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 10:32:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by mail.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77B1E425D5 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 11:59:29 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4135F9BD.7070303@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 11:33:01 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] pattern for jacket? References: <86.14d24e15.2e667930@aol.com> <005001c48fcc$7509e6a0$0392c418@mad.wi.charter.com> In-Reply-To: <005001c48fcc$7509e6a0$0392c418@mad.wi.charter.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > I'm definitely eyeing the Bolivian > Milkmaid jacket, as there seems to be a view on that pattern that gives a > bit of flare without inserted gores, like the Jacobean jackets use. That was the pattern I started with. I raised the neckline, and made straight tube sleeves that were a couple inches too long so they could be folded back to show the lining. I put in three tiny pleats in the back of the sleeve at the shoulder. If I had it to do over again I would make wider sleeves. I made them a little on the narrow side because it was for winter and I didn't want cold air on my wrists, but they turned to be too snug when I folded back the cuff. I left the back gussets according to the pattern, and it wasn't as full as you'd think, made in wool, once I got it on over full skirts. There was a noticeable flare to it, but it wasn't overly ruffled. If you have never made this pattern, beware the instructions. They have you turning pieces inside out and upside down, and doing right-side/wrong-side things very strangely to end up with completely hidden enclosed seams all the way around, and it can get very confusing, especially if you are altering the pattern. > > Does anyone have other pictorial instances where this sort of jacket is > worn? I found a lot of images online and in my books, but I didn't keep track of specific sites or titles. Once you start looking you will find them everywhere. > On colder mornings I was thinking a jacket would be easier to work in than a > cloak. My jacket was so lovely at the winter event I wore it to. I thought I might be too hot indoors, but I wasn't. I could just open the front hooks to 'vent'. I also had a black wool partlet to cover my neck and shoulders, since there is no collar on the jacket. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 1 12:40:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i81Ge7jl001842 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 12:40:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81GcO4d009163 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Sep 2004 10:38:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81GcLxv008441; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 10:38:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.reddawn.net (rrcs-west-67-52-227-118.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81GcFxv008328 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 10:38:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by mail.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 126A1425D5 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 12:05:11 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4135FB13.4070908@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 11:38:43 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] standards of reply References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040831200642.00b13e50@64.87.54.245> In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20040831200642.00b13e50@64.87.54.245> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Frankly, I don't care if it is on the top or on the bottom, so long as it is clearly marked with quotes or >> or some other method and I can tell who said what. I would much prefer that folks put effort into editing or clipping the relevant parts of the post they are replying to, rather than copy 150 lines of preceeding text into their reply. My mailreader only shows the first 15 lines of a message, and if I see more than two indented quotes, or evidence that the message wasn't edited for a reply, I just keep going without bothering to read it. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 1 12:58:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i81GwQOs002013 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 12:58:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81GvY4d011137 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Sep 2004 10:57:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81GvQxv023529; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 10:57:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mclean.mail.mindspring.net (mclean.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81GpVxv018618 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 10:51:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) Received: from wamui01.slb.atl.earthlink.net ([192.168.167.39]) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1C2YKX-0007rq-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 01 Sep 2004 12:51:29 -0400 Message-ID: <1524340.1094057489171.JavaMail.root@wamui01.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 09:51:29 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: Chris Laning To: Historical Costume Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: OT: standards of reply X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm continually amazed by the people who flatly declare "top posting is rude" simply because that is what they've been told -- without taking into account any of the other factors that have been listed: varying levels of e-mail experience, the biases of one's software, et cetera. For some people it seems to have become a "religious" issue, i.e. a firmly held belief not subject to rational discussion, rather like Mac versus PC or Opera versus any other browser . But then (dragging the subject kicking and screaming back to costume!) it seems to be much the same phenomenon as the bullies who think nothing of walking up to a complete stranger and telling them their Viking or Romanian or Elizabethan garb is "wrong." The tendency to self-righteously correct others seems to be a common human thing :) Who was it said they were convinced humans invented language so that we could complain??!?! ____________________________________________________________ 0 Chris Laning | + Davis, California ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 1 13:04:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i81H4aDX002054 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 13:04:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81H3M4d011794 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Sep 2004 11:03:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81H3Ixv028403; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 11:03:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f44.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.94]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81GxXxv025093 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 10:59:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rharperny@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 09:59:28 -0700 Received: from 206.114.49.34 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 01 Sep 2004 16:59:28 GMT X-Originating-IP: [206.114.49.34] X-Originating-Email: [rharperny@hotmail.com] X-Sender: rharperny@hotmail.com From: "R Harper" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 12:59:28 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Sep 2004 16:59:28.0615 (UTC) FILETIME=[0B12EF70:01C49045] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Trim around curves X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i81Hi93o002296 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 13:44:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81HhS4d016009 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Sep 2004 11:43:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81HhPxv062158; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 11:43:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81HhGxv061969 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 11:43:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (c-24-21-147-231.client.comcast.net [24.21.147.231]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i81Hh8B06669 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 13:43:08 -0400 Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 10:48:42 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] standards of reply Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20040831200642.00b13e50@64.87.54.245> Message-Id: <29EFAF93-FC3F-11D8-8BF6-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i81HhGxv061969 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings, This was the topic of a discussion on another list I'm on just last week that nearly ended in a flame war. One poster went so far as to say he deleted any top posted email without reading. Of course, that didn't stop him from replying to nearly every post on the subject, regardless of top/bottom-ness. The top/bottom posting debate has near religious adherents and is about as pointless as the Mac/PC, Coke/Pepsi or Britanny/Christina debate. There is no one standard for email, e-mail, or Email. I top post. I prefer it for emails where I am replying to one point. If I am replying to several points, I interleave my replies. I can be flexible, unless someone tries to impose a "standard". I'm a rebel that way. :D It is far more important to clip and trim your replies. Top/bottom posting is a personal matter of taste, a function of the email program, or a product of indoctrination. It is not something to get one's knickers in a twist about. OBLIGATORY COSTUME REFERENCE: Where did the phrase, "Knickers in a twist" originate? Althea On Tuesday, August 31, 2004, at 08:20 PM, Kimiko Small wrote: > At 08:03 PM 8/31/2004 -0400, you wrote: >> A side note, not on this topic: Those of you who are relatively new >> to email discussions may not know that it is standard to put comments >> and replies under what you're replying to (if you quote it at all). >> Having your bit on top can be confusing, because it's harder to >> follow the flow of discussion. >> >> -- >> Cynthia Virtue and/or >> Cynthia du Pré Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 1 14:08:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i81I8jZT002406 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 14:08:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81I7G4d018495 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Sep 2004 12:07:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81I7Cxv081894; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 12:07:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81I78xw081830 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 12:07:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i81I5QTA013556 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 14:05:26 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 01 Sep 2004 14:05:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <41360FC2.9050603@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 14:06:58 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: OT: standards of reply References: <1524340.1094057489171.JavaMail.root@wamui01.slb.atl.earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <1524340.1094057489171.JavaMail.root@wamui01.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Chris Laning wrote: > I'm continually amazed by the people who flatly declare "top posting > is rude" simply because that is what they've been told I hope my short note did not come across that way; I was hoping to gently educate if people did not know, not to castigate if it was a stylistic choice. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 1 14:19:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i81IJCTV002439 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 14:19:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81IIM4d019617 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Sep 2004 12:18:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81IIGxv090516; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 12:18:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81II9xw090441 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 12:18:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-199.sonic.net [209.148.112.199]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i81II7rx011198 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 11:18:07 -0700 Message-ID: <41361280.5050702@lavoltapress.com> Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 11:18:40 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] standards of reply References: <29EFAF93-FC3F-11D8-8BF6-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> In-Reply-To: <29EFAF93-FC3F-11D8-8BF6-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My response to all attempted email "standardization" is: When someone wants me to write in a particular style, and/or requires me to proofread, and/or requires me to use certain graphic design standards--they pay me. If they're not paying me, I'm making a voluntary contribution on my own time for group benefit, and/or for my own personal recreation. Then I get to write the document as I please. Anyone dissatisfied with that is welcome to pay me as above. Work is one thing, a hobby email list is another. Fran Grimble Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com > > > > I top post. I prefer it for emails where I am replying to one point. > If I am replying to several points, I interleave my replies. I can be > flexible, unless someone tries to impose a "standard". I'm a rebel > that way. :D > > It is far more important to clip and trim your replies. Top/bottom > posting is a personal matter of taste, a function of the email > program, or a product of indoctrination. It is not something to get > one's knickers in a twist about. > > OBLIGATORY COSTUME REFERENCE: Where did the phrase, "Knickers in a > twist" originate? > > Althea > > > On Tuesday, August 31, 2004, at 08:20 PM, Kimiko Small wrote: > >> At 08:03 PM 8/31/2004 -0400, you wrote: >> >>> A side note, not on this topic: Those of you who are relatively new >>> to email discussions may not know that it is standard to put >>> comments and replies under what you're replying to (if you quote it >>> at all). Having your bit on top can be confusing, because it's >>> harder to follow the flow of discussion. >>> >>> -- >>> Cynthia Virtue and/or >>> Cynthia du Pré Argent >> > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 1 14:30:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i81IUbhT002661 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 14:30:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81ITQ4d020716 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Sep 2004 12:29:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81ITIxv099286; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 12:29:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from eagle.uvm.edu (eagle.uvm.edu [132.198.101.203]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81IT7xw099178 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 12:29:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hope.greenberg@uvm.edu) Received: from uvm.edu (ip104191.uvm.edu [132.198.104.191]) by eagle.uvm.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i81IT4fu010844 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 14:29:05 -0400 Message-ID: <413614F0.5070907@uvm.edu> Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 14:29:04 -0400 From: Hope Greenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <29EFAF93-FC3F-11D8-8BF6-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> <41361280.5050702@lavoltapress.com> In-Reply-To: <41361280.5050702@lavoltapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Hero: love the silk X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I can't comment on the historical accuracy (don't know enough about Chinese clothing 2,000+ years ago!) but if you love silk check out images from the movie "Hero" http://outnow.ch/Media/Img/2002/Hero/ Better yet, go see the film. All that gorgeous fabric fluttering and swirling and falling. Unbelievable! And the colors--Zhang does it like nobody else... - Hope _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 1 14:37:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i81IbXFI002690 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 14:37:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81Iai4d021459 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Sep 2004 12:36:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81Iafxv005168; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 12:36:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.mdx.safepages.com (mail1.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81IaZxv005112 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 12:36:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail1.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 88DED13D75E; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 18:36:33 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust34.tnt1.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.148.34]) by mail1.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id CB5CE13D68C for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 18:36:31 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <010201c49052$e1160050$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Straight trim, curved places Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 13:38:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" > Assuming you haven't already bought your trim: I've found a workable way > to get the effect of very wide trims is to use several compatible narrower > trims. I have been thinking of doing that--I'm doing that on another gown, actually, with 2 strips of 3/8" trim on either side of ~1" trim, and a 1/8" space in between each which makes a nifty addition to the effect. (Another Pre-Raph gown. Not terribly much use for trim in the sorts of historical dresses I like, which I sometimes regret!) But sigh, on this one it may not work. Even though it's a Pre-Raph dress, which means accuracy is pretty much pointless, I'm trying to stay as faithful to the painting itself as possible--it's Waterhouse's 1910 Ophelia (which for a P-R painting, is almost vaguely like something that might have actually happened, if you squint hard and ignore certain elements: http://www.illusionsgallery.com/ophelia-1910.html ) and at the bottom of her gown there's about ~8" of gold trim, with very large emblems that can't be divided vertically. What I _should_ do is find some gold fabric with a similar design, but I've been looking and I can't! -E House Liberty in Our Lifetime - www.freestateproject.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 1 14:53:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i81IrsNA002763 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 14:53:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81Iqv4d023044 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Sep 2004 12:52:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81Iqqxv018228; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 12:52:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from simmts5-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts5.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.163]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81Iqnxv018127 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 12:52:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([67.70.4.58]) by simmts5-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with SMTP id <20040901185100.FPHD1635.simmts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 14:51:00 -0400 Message-ID: <013501c49053$a22a8f40$cb6afea9@sherry> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <29EFAF93-FC3F-11D8-8BF6-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com><41361280.5050702@lavoltapress.com> <413614F0.5070907@uvm.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hero: love the silk Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 14:43:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hope Greenberg" > I can't comment on the historical accuracy (don't know enough about > Chinese clothing 2,000+ years ago!) but if you love silk check out > images from the movie "Hero" > http://outnow.ch/Media/Img/2002/Hero/ > > Better yet, go see the film. All that gorgeous fabric fluttering and > swirling and falling. Unbelievable! And the colors--Zhang does it like > nobody else... > > - Hope The imagery was stunning! Did you also notice the different coloured costumes were identical for each character? If you look, the fabric for each outfit was the same, check out the collars, same leaf-like pattern in the weave of the silk. mmmmmmmm :-) The minute I got home I started to check out Chinese paintings on the 'net, it *looks* like they at least accomplished the right feel for the period, if not actual authenticity. As a result of my snooping around the net, I now have yet another outfit to add to my 'to do' list. Its a Tang Dynasty (500-600 ad) court outfit, which looks for all the world like an Edwardian Art-Nouveau gown... Sheridan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 1 15:05:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i81J5fNh002845 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 15:05:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81J4f4d024072 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Sep 2004 13:04:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81J4axv027484; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 13:04:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (chori.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81J4Zxv027405 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 13:04:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ldownward@chori.org) X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Sophos http://raeinternet.com/mpp Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP-TLS id 1363038 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 01 Sep 2004 12:04:29 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.0.0.040405 Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 12:04:29 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Straight trim, curved places From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <010201c49052$e1160050$0400a8c0@compaqub> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What a beautiful dress! However, it looks to me like a wide strip of gold fabric with emblems embroidered onto it. Then again, it's a painting AND a modern allegory, and you can see whatever you please. It's not as if there's really THAT dress in a museum somewhere. It's in the eye of the artist, either Waterhouse or you. My millinery class final every year is to find a picture of a hat and reproduce it as closely as possible. Proportion is the most important thing to reproduce; after that it's all up to the milliner's view. I've seen three different people reproduce the same hat in the same class and they all saw something different. And each one was a perfect reproduction! LynnD > From: E House > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 13:38:29 -0500 > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Straight trim, curved places > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robin Netherton" > >> Assuming you haven't already bought your trim: I've found a workable way >> to get the effect of very wide trims is to use several compatible narrower >> trims. > > I have been thinking of doing that--I'm doing that on another gown, > actually, with 2 strips of 3/8" trim on either side of ~1" trim, and a 1/8" > space in between each which makes a nifty addition to the effect. (Another > Pre-Raph gown. Not terribly much use for trim in the sorts of historical > dresses I like, which I sometimes regret!) > > But sigh, on this one it may not work. Even though it's a Pre-Raph dress, > which means accuracy is pretty much pointless, I'm trying to stay as > faithful to the painting itself as possible--it's Waterhouse's 1910 Ophelia > (which for a P-R painting, is almost vaguely like something that might have > actually happened, if you squint hard and ignore certain elements: > http://www.illusionsgallery.com/ophelia-1910.html ) and at the bottom of her > gown there's about ~8" of gold trim, with very large emblems that can't be > divided vertically. What I _should_ do is find some gold fabric with a > similar design, but I've been looking and I can't! > > > -E House > Liberty in Our Lifetime - www.freestateproject.org > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 1 15:42:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i81Jg84b003492 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 15:42:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81JfE4d027934 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Sep 2004 13:41:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81Jf9xv057712; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 13:41:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from indirectobject.com (066-241-084-045.bus.ashlandfiber.net [66.241.84.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81Jewxv057539 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 13:41:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rreed@indirectobject.com) Message-Id: <200409011941.i81Jewxv057539@net.indra.com> Received: from synergy ([192.168.1.1]) by indirectobject.com (WWW [192.168.1.200]) (MDaemon.PRO.v6.8.5.R) with ESMTP id 42-md50000000023.tmp for ; Wed, 01 Sep 2004 12:44:04 -0700 From: To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Straight trim, curved places Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 12:40:30 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-Index: AcSQV4WHCwDTE9phSlKDNuqKNjA8gwAA9UBQ X-Spam-Processed: WWW, Wed, 01 Sep 2004 12:44:04 -0700 (not processed: message from valid local sender) X-MDRemoteIP: 192.168.1.1 X-Return-Path: rreed@indirectobject.com X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > actually happened, if you squint hard and ignore certain elements: > http://www.illusionsgallery.com/ophelia-1910.html ) and at the bottom of her > gown there's about ~8" of gold trim, with very large emblems that can't be > divided vertically. What I _should_ do is find some gold fabric with a > similar design, but I've been looking and I can't! > > To me, the bottom of this gown reminds me of sari fabric. You could try stenciling/painting the design on -- if I remember correctly, I've heard that was done as far back as the Tudor era. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 1 16:16:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i81KGKHM003654 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 16:16:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81KFR4d001986 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Sep 2004 14:15:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81KFGxv086603; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 14:15:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail11.mdx.safepages.com (mail11.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81KFAxv086547 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 14:15:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 32997A066C; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 20:15:15 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust34.tnt1.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.148.34]) by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 1D329A0870 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 20:15:08 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <011501c49060$a738e380$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Straight trim, curved places Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 15:16:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO From: "Lynn Downward" > What a beautiful dress! However, it looks to me like a wide strip of gold > fabric with emblems embroidered onto it. Then again, it's a painting AND a > modern allegory, and you can see whatever you please. It's not as if there's > really THAT dress in a museum somewhere. It's in the eye of the artist, > either Waterhouse or you. But that _is_ what I see! =} > > What I _should_ do is find some gold fabric with a > > similar design, but I've been looking and I can't! Especially since you can see the back side of the trim in question, and it matches/is the reverse to the trim as seen from the front. (And for this sense of trim, I include fabric.) My problem is finding any fabric anything whatsoever like that. Very frustrating, especially since this sort of fabric is so familiar to my eye that it seems like I should be able to find a never-ending supply, but... no such luck! And since it's a P-R dress, I'm even willing to go with modern fibers, but still, no luck. With non-fabric trim, at least I can find similar designs, which is why I'm considering it--not because I think that's what Waterhouse is trying to depict. -E _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 1 17:59:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i81Lxm40004110 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 17:59:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81Lwi4d012939 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Sep 2004 15:58:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i81LvTxv070429; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 15:57:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from outbound28-2.lax.untd.com (outbound28-2.lax.untd.com [64.136.28.160]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i81Lu4xv069407 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 15:56:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pagansoccermom@netzero.net) Received: from outbound28-2.lax.untd.com (smtp02.lax.untd.com [10.130.24.122]) by smtpout01.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABAVNTMMAL6HQ4J for (sender ); Wed, 1 Sep 2004 14:55:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 5390 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2004 21:55:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO susyhp) (63.188.40.11) by smtp02.lax.untd.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 2004 21:55:26 -0000 Message-ID: <006e01c4906e$623d3fc0$0b28bc3f@susyhp> From: "Susy" To: "Historical Costume" References: <629503865.20040831211407@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: Re[2]: [h-cost] OT (slightly): transferring pattern markings to fabric Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 17:55:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-ContentStamp: 8:4:654629173 X-MAIL-INFO: 506815c1a1710c688ca17d0925c578153909d57885e58c78fc7d6c450545798d4c6529450c580c08bd1d184cf9bd9929984c589988853c99cded2cb9f1b9315cd105adb9a8c8a875f5a9acd1d9f548adccd1c848c5797d6d7d65000165008dbd008dbdc571e85d9c68aca5aca1d5b10de9ace529ed350535b9bc11b9bcf5adbcf5 X-UNTD-OriginStamp: HdyqQQTNgAkMx9lp68PFujYm/6Ua55ofNkexztxufRiIQyySeVOHO85Wx41/oDtn X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks for that suggestion, what a practical, common sense solution! Susy suggested. Use > the tracing wheel once to make holes in the pattern. Then, when you > need to use the pattern, use a chalk bag to make the marking onto the > fabric, then use running stitches to make it last. This way you only > make the holes once in the pattern. > > This is an old practice to transfer embroidery patterns to fabric. > > > > -- > Best regards, > Jonica > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 2 03:05:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8275ZBe030576 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 03:05:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8274Y4d023453 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Sep 2004 01:04:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82745xv086489; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 01:04:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm01.prodigy.net (ylpvm01-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8273txv086375 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 01:03:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema (adsl-69-107-89-99.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.89.99]) by ylpvm01.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8273mCZ000583 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 03:03:48 -0400 Message-Id: <4.1.20040901011756.016f5780@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 01:21:14 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Italian Dress 1570-80s (was Pregnancy dressdocumentation1550-1600?) In-Reply-To: <200408312241.01484.cathy@thyrsus.com> References: <4.1.20040830233751.01a3ca10@mail.frys.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20040830205843.0240e8d8@64.87.54.245> <4.1.20040830233751.01a3ca10@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >> >Agreed. Perhaps the height of the neckline will turn out to be a major >> >clue. :-) >> >> Vecellio has opinions on this, and he's a few hundred years closer to the >> originals than we are. I'd look there first, and see if I could >> extrapolate something from his images. > >Indeed. I didn't mean to suggest otherwise. I probably should have said "We could look there, and see if we could extrapolate...") CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 2 07:28:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i82BSBte006761 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 07:28:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82BRG4d008435 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Sep 2004 05:27:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82BR4xv014800; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 05:27:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from alpha2.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (alpha2.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.0.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82BQuxv014628 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 05:26:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 12:25:15 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: RE: [h-cost] Teen styles (WAS:Pants below the crotch) To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C39B8@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Teen styles (WAS:Pants below the crotch) Thread-Index: AcSNANhBGwmxkdWgQ7OFDIQZSURJOwD2yK/g content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.21 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Meanwhile, I dye my teenager's (male) hair magenta and > > black and am thankful that hair replaces itself and that he > > is getting really good grades and staying out of trouble. > > Cheryl, I agree with you wholeheartedly except about that > last bit. He wants his hair magenta? Let him do it himself! :-) Perhaps it's a reciprocal arrangement and he helps her when she's doing stuff that's easier to do with help....? My father threw me out when I was in my late teens and dyed my hair.... What a stupid attitude to take - it's my hair not his. I may not like all/some of the styles that current teens are sporting, but it's their choice. Just becasue I hate them and/or think they look awful or stupid, I'm not about to tell them they can't wear them. Similarly, they want to pierce their ears (or other parts - the thought of which makes me shudder) then so long as it's done safely with sterile equipment, let 'em (I draw the line at the more dangerous areas where getting it in the wrong place can cause nerve damage and paralysis) since it doesn't do them any harm. I got one ear pierced when I was a teenager and the toehr in my early 20's and that's as far as I want/wanted to go. My mother pierced my sisters ears for them when they were teenagers (well, one sister with a sterile needle and one ear on the other sister who fainted and had the other one done at a shop. Years later the second sister had a second set of ear piercings done). A couple of years ago, my godson (then aged six) wanted blue hair so I dyed it blue and spiked it for him. When he went home the other kids thought it was great and his mother wanted hers dyed blue. By the time it lost it's novelty value, it faded and grew out, though he had to wear his coif/hat pulled down low at the next re-enactment event so it wouldn't show. He hasn't asked me to do it again, though he knows I have more dye. I'd do the same for his little sister if she ever wants me to, or my other goddaughter. I came through schools that were unneccesarily sexist and racist as to dress codes (as well as subjects taught). School uniforms were bad enough. Contrary to the "great equaliser" theory everybody knew which kids were from poor families and wearing second hand and hand-me-down uniforms and which kids were from rich enough families to have new ones each term. rules on hair and jewelry made it worse... I well remember the frustrated anger at the unfairness of girls being allowed to have long hair (and earrings) and boys not, and of white girls being allowed to wear their long hair down and black girls having to wear it up. One memorable occasion saw a black girl sent home because she came to school with her hair down and refused to put it up while there were two white girls sitting at the same table with longer hair which they were wearing loose and it was not remarked upon. Much as I hated that girl (she was a bully and I was a frequent victim) I was angered by the unfairness of the situation. Mind you, I was also angered by the unfairness of her getting away with hitting me and me being severely punished for hitting her back because, "boys shouldn't hit girls even if the girls hit them first" - what a crock of shit - anyone who hits anyone is asking to be hit back regardless of the gender of those involved. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 2 07:55:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i82BtbJE006845 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 07:55:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82Bsu4d009851 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Sep 2004 05:54:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82Bssxv028396; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 05:54:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from alpha2.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (alpha2.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.0.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82Bsqxv028366 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 05:54:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 12:53:13 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: RE: [h-cost] 1920s baggy trousers To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C39BC@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] 1920s baggy trousers Thread-Index: AcSN8tfkgaBj80F8Twi1gVgZIc0EdgC8GUAw content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.21 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I was at Sears once, walking behind a teen wearing the modern loose trousers. > He walked right out of them, and made a hasty grab before they reached his > knees. > > It took a heroic effort for me not to collapse in hysterical > laughter. Michelle, I'd have just laughed myself senseless. Just because I wouldn't tell them not to wear that style, doesn't mean I would hold back on laughing at it. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 2 08:22:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i82CMu7c006943 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 08:22:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82CMD4d011578 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Sep 2004 06:22:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82CMAxv043649; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 06:22:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.mdx.safepages.com (mail1.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82CM4xv043533 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 06:22:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail1.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 9F6DB13D799; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 12:22:00 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust10.tnt1.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.148.10]) by mail1.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 4DAE513D73C for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 12:21:48 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <016601c490e7$b785c960$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200408231723.i7NHNQJ7092831@net.indra.com> <002801c489f5$167e8640$cb6afea9@sherry> Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 06:58:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] v-neck gowns X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Forwarded from another list: ----- Original Message ----- From: Marianne Perdomo Machin To: 15thCenturyEurope@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 4:10 AM Subject: [15thCenturyEurope] burgundian gown "trim" question Greetings! Lots of nice-sounding projects! That wedding sounds absolutely great!! I have a question about the burgundian/flemish/whatever/V-necked style. I'm trying to get something like: http://www.uvm.edu/%7Ehag/sca/15th/ainsworthp133.jpg And I wonder... do you think it more likely that the fur around the neckline (or velvet or whatever) is more likely to be: - a trim, just sewn onto the dress - or something turned-back similar to a modern jackets' lapel Any help will be much appreciated! Marianne Group homepage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/15thCenturyEurope/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 2 08:32:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i82CWlNc006978 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 08:32:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82CWB4d012047 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Sep 2004 06:32:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82CW9xv048924; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 06:32:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m20.mx.aol.com (imo-m20.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82CW6xv048851 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 06:32:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.4.) id 6.ce.564f3c5b (18251) for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 08:31:58 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 08:31:58 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] v-neck gowns To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/2/2004 8:22:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, formfunc@formfunction.org writes: > And I wonder... do you think it more likely that the fur around the > neckline (or velvet or whatever) is more likely to be: > - a trim, just sewn onto the dress > - or something turned-back similar to a modern jackets' lapel > Look at the hem and the cuffs too. The gown is lined with grey fur. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 2 09:09:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i82D91iU007180 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 09:09:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82D8F4d014451 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Sep 2004 07:08:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82D8Bxv069143; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 07:08:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82D88xv069065 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 07:08:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from webwarren@earthlink.net) Received: from jessie2.webwarren.com (pcp0010285386pcs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.44.18.221]) by webwarren.com (8.12.10/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i82D7mxg030891 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 09:07:59 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <6.0.3.0.0.20040902085526.06894cd0@earthlink.net> X-Sender: n2kye@mail.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.3.0 Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 09:06:12 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Subject: O/T Re: bullies (WAS: RE: [h-cost] Teen styles (WAS:Pants below the crotch)) In-Reply-To: <200409021222.i82CMaxw043915@net.indra.com> References: <200409021222.i82CMaxw043915@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On 9/2/2004, Teddy wrote: >...Mind you, I was also angered by the unfairness of [a female classmate] >getting away with hitting me and me >being severely punished for hitting her back because, "boys shouldn't hit >girls even if the girls hit them first" - what a crock of shit - >anyone who hits anyone is asking to be hit back regardless of the gender >of those involved Interestingly, I had the problem a bit in reverse. When I got into Junior High, a couple of boys in my class decided they'd have sport by pinching me where/when I sat down, poking my breasts with rulers, and other such sexual harassment. My father *insisted* that I fight back by kicking these boys in the genitals. I tried this approach (unsuccessfully, mind you!) and was taken kicking and screaming, a teacher holding each limb, to the principal's office. Their take was that since I was a top student academically, I should NEVER fight back and I should ALWAYS let the teachers handle it. (The teachers handled it by ignoring it, or telling me I was BSsing them, or -- rarely -- telling the boys to stop which of course they didn't.) BTW, this was a sort of continuation of how they treated ALL girls they took to be from "the right side of the tracks" since the earliest levels of elementary school. Tell me I didn't grow up learning how to be anything OTHER than a victim??????? Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 2 10:17:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i82EHVBA007585 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 10:17:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82EGf4d019351 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Sep 2004 08:16:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82EGbxv010766; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 08:16:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from alpha2.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (alpha2.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.0.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82EGSxv010667 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 08:16:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 15:14:14 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: RE: [h-cost] standards of reply To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C39C2@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] standards of reply Thread-Index: AcSQQhzUfxEZdBK9Q+WCuFUctR/sQAAtB51g content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.21 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I have to say that while -I- prefer interlining my responses with the > various quotations, Me too - particularly in mail I recdeive otherwise I haven't much hope of following what it's about without a lot of scrolling up and down and trying to find/figure out the bits they are responding to. > I have learned that many mailers automatically force top-posting, Yep - my employers just switched to a system that does that (the previous e-system didn't) and I hate it. It's awful and clunky to use and also doesn't allow you to select the part of a large email (like a digest) you want to respond to, you have to reply to the whole thing and then manually delete the bits you don't want to include..... What a waste of time! > Top posting does have the theoretical benefit of retaining contextual integrity, > while making it so that you don't have to scroll through the entire history of the > discussion unless you want to, or are taking the digest format. For me it means I'm more likely to ignore that e-mail completely because I don't have time (or patience) to keep srolling back and forth to match up each part of the response with the with the part of the original message it is referring to. life's too short. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 2 10:35:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i82EZnPL007887 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 10:35:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82EYi4d020971 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Sep 2004 08:34:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82EYgxv023359; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 08:34:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.254.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82EVIxv021023 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 08:31:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 15:28:56 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pre-raph trim (WAS:Straight trim, curved places) To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C39C5@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Pre-raph trim (WAS:Straight trim, curved places) Thread-Index: AcSQ87WzqtBKgfkASxOhDRy0QybNmAABTPXg content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.21 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-DCC-SPAMCHECK.NET-Metrics: net.indra.com 1168; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > But sigh, on this one it may not work. Even though it's a > Pre-Raph dress, which means accuracy is pretty much > pointless, I'm trying to stay as faithful to the painting > itself as possible--it's Waterhouse's 1910 Ophelia (which for > a P-R painting, is almost vaguely like something that might > have actually happened, if you squint hard and ignore certain > elements: http://www.illusionsgallery.com/ophelia-1910.html ) > and at the bottom of her gown there's about ~8" of gold trim, > with very large emblems that can't be divided vertically. > What I _should_ do is find some gold fabric with a similar > design, but I've been looking and I can't! How about plain gold fabric with the emblems appliqued on? They're big and fairly widely spaced so it won't be a *huge* huge job to do it. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 2 10:39:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i82EdN2o007968 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 10:39:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82EXb4d020888 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Sep 2004 08:33:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82EXVxv022528; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 08:33:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web40414.mail.yahoo.com (web40414.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i82ETDxv019516 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 08:29:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hanstar88@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040902142907.93908.qmail@web40414.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.148.104.109] by web40414.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 02 Sep 2004 07:29:07 PDT Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 07:29:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Mary To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200408301450.i7UEnuq2091889@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-DCC-SINECTIS-Metrics: net.indra.com 1114; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Corset supply shop in London X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Chiara, thanks for the links, and Cynthia, thanks for the explanation of "busking"! ~Mary > From: "Chiara" > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset supply shop in London > > http://www.staylace.com/resourcelist/supplies.htm > > This seems to list some in the area, at least two in London proper, > they > would know if there are more specifically in London. Try giving one > of them > a call. :) > > Also try http://www.sewing.co.uk/ since they are there. > > Chiara >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > From: Cynthia J Ley > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset supply shop in London > > Busking is a term used by entertainers at Renn Faires and similiar > activities. Basically, performers go and do their thing, then pass > the > hat. > ===== "Pictures of perfection, as you know, make me sick & wicked." ~ Jane Austen "Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before." ~ Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 2 10:42:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i82Eg7qg008041 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 10:42:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82Ef54d021657 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Sep 2004 08:41:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82Ef4xv028120; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 08:41:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from alpha2.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (alpha2.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.0.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82Ef2xv028097 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 08:41:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 15:39:33 +0100 From: Teddy To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C39C6@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: RE:[15thCenturyEurope] burgundian gown "trim" question Thread-Index: AcSQ87WzqtBKgfkASxOhDRy0QybNmAABj2tQ content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.21 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE:[15thCenturyEurope] burgundian gown "trim" question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I have a question about the burgundian/flemish/whatever/V-necked > style. I'm trying to get something like: > > http://www.uvm.edu/%7Ehag/sca/15th/ainsworthp133.jpg > > And I wonder... do you think it more likely that the fur around the > neckline (or velvet or whatever) is more likely to be: > - a trim, just sewn onto the dress > - or something turned-back similar to a modern jackets' lapel > > Any help will be much appreciated! I'd say it was likely to be the fur that the dress is lined in - or that's the impression it's meant to give - whether the entire gown was actually fully lined in fur is anyone's guess.... Judging by the size of the plats under the belt, it could go either way, they could be the right size for a thin, fine, flexible fur. You can "fake" it, however, by lining the gown with a similar coloured fabric to the fur and just using the fur to bind the hem, and make cuffs and collar to attach in the right places... that may or may not have been what eas done in the original garment to give the impression fo fully-lined in fur. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 2 10:43:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i82Ehm6s008077 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 10:43:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82Eh04d021844 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Sep 2004 08:43:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82Eguxv029496; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 08:42:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from alpha2.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (alpha2.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.0.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82Egqxv029451 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 08:42:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 15:41:51 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: [h-cost] Who asked about diamond-weave wool? To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C39C7@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Who asked about diamond-weave wool? Thread-Index: AcSQ87WzqtBKgfkASxOhDRy0QybNmAABvoUg content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.21 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A while back someone was asking about diamond-weave wool and I've forgotten who it was. Whoever you are, if you could email me I can give you details of the one I mentioned having seen on a traders stall at an event - I tracked it down over the weekend and got a sample of it for you. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 2 10:46:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i82Ekxk3008111 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 10:46:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82Ek84d022185 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Sep 2004 08:46:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82Ek7xv031661; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 08:46:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m16.mx.aol.com (imo-m16.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.206]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82Ek1xv031562 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 08:46:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.4.) id 6.129.4a7d2261 (2168) for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 10:45:53 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <129.4a7d2261.2e688c21@aol.com> Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 10:45:53 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Straight trim, curved places To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5031 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/1/2004 3:21:12 AM Eastern Standard Time, kimiko@kimiko1.com writes: I am trying to figure out how to make a wide 2.5" Jacquard trim go around curves? The trim is not very stretchy, and I would like for it to go around the bottom of a man's base. I am making my husband a Henry VIII style doublet with attached base, and the base is a circle skirt that I will organ pleat into place. That is pretty wide to get a decent curve. Up to 1 1/2 " or so, you can put an easing thread along one edge and shape it into a curve that way. As wide as your are talking about, though, you may need to actually stitch small darts in to make it fit. I recently used a similar wide ribbon for a bonnet band and, as a bonnet crown is tapered, not a cylinder, I had to shape it and had to use darts--the easing didn't shape it enough. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 2 10:59:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i82ExDUw008161 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 10:59:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82EwL4d023661 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Sep 2004 08:58:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82EwIxv040650; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 08:58:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tin.wightman.ca (tin.wightman.ca [216.249.0.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82EwFxv040588 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 08:58:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lgsteph@wightman.ca) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by tin.wightman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC028339C1 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 10:58:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d7k7b6 (unknown [142.46.141.52]) by tin.wightman.ca (Postfix) with SMTP id CFDBE339A7 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 10:58:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002201c490fd$ce3ac460$348d2e8e@wightman.ca> From: "Five Rivers" To: "Historic Costume List" Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 11:02:01 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] fresh water pearls X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I needing to find a source, preferably wholesale, for 3x4mm white fresh water pearls, other than Canada Beading Supply, who don't have any commercial grade, and I'm not willing to pay up to $14.00CDN/strand when I'm needing easily 10 more strands to get on with this blessed Wind embroidery! Any help appreciated. Regards Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage fine hand-sewn embroidered garments, historical sewing patterns & embroidery supplies (519) 799-5577, http://www.5rivers.org email: info@5rivers.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 2 11:14:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i82FEDH5008234 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 11:14:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82FDV4d025247 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Sep 2004 09:13:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82FDRxv052182; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 09:13:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from outbound20-2.nyc.untd.com (outbound20-2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.20.160]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i82FDNxv052076 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 09:13:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from outbound21-sr.nyc.untd.com (webmail13.nyc.untd.com [10.140.30.155]) by smtpout03.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABAVQQDGACVNQWA for (sender ); Thu, 2 Sep 2004 08:12:38 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCnvHee+r4vXcHonVAC/M2hzqnlBKq3gROQ== Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by webmail13.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id J6JJBDAQ; Thu, 02 Sep 2004 08:12:17 PDT Received: from [4.158.81.43] by webmail13.nyc.untd.com with HTTP: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 15:11:25 GMT X-Originating-IP: [4.158.81.43] Mime-Version: 1.0 From: "seamstrix@juno.com" Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 15:11:25 GMT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] fresh water pearls X-Mailer: WebMail Version 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <20040902.081217.12675.516279@webmail13.nyc.untd.com> X-ContentStamp: 6:3:498284272 X-MAIL-INFO: 1a2540b48120b4398de140353135ed399155b47009d539b5a43da1a4d5ddd0b550d150f9d5c459a4446de955947d559d849d8469f41019594d906560fd01604d01595149805905bd519580f0bd00d975c0215909d90c21240df021b100044d144d408d5430354d951d9511b489b9543db4b035fd541db01924c1b0f9a47999a099dd6dc414949944e444a5f48415c455f4859461c4e485c01959a0e460654d652901496004bd2971a054a015f0e1756004d9a9a499b0f9d4d0f9a5d0ddd51435002035b445b4456d403d39506519cdfd5190fde4908505f490050105742980745929e5f041e9d971d91549691549212d49212d4144648519b951 4051c9e0c0052951596154953995c179b5c17991707991a9a450b0f9ddd1f999f4ddd4d4c4d4f50c204091cd7d44b95541b9641055656590 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You could try Fire Mountain Gems. They have several pages of freshwater pearls. http://www.firemountaingems.com/shopping.asp?skw=KWBDPRL Karen -- "Five Rivers" wrote: I needing to find a source, preferably wholesale, for 3x4mm white fresh water pearls, other than Canada Beading Supply, who don't have any commercial grade, and I'm not willing to pay up to $14.00CDN/strand when I'm needing easily 10 more strands to get on with this blessed Wind embroidery! Any help appreciated. Regards Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage fine hand-sewn embroidered garments, historical sewing patterns & embroidery supplies (519) 799-5577, http://www.5rivers.org email: info@5rivers.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________ Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 2 12:00:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i82G0Jfm008735 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 12:00:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82FxG4d029495 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Sep 2004 09:59:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82FxDxv088080; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 09:59:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mailout.whidbey.net (mailout.whidbey.net [209.166.64.124]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82Fx7xw087963 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 09:59:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from andie@whidbey.com) Message-Id: <200409021559.i82Fx7xw087963@net.indra.com> Received: from [10.20.10.146] (helo=www.whidbey.com) by mail2.whidbey.net with smtp (Exim 4.30) id 1C2tzH-0002jq-B9 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Sep 2004 08:58:59 -0700 Received: from 209.166.87.37 (auth. user andie@mail.whidbey.net) by www.whidbey.com with HTTP; Thu, 02 Sep 2004 07:59:02 -0800 To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] fresh water pearls Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 07:59:02 -0800 X-Mailer: IlohaMail/0.7.9 (On: www.whidbey.com) In-Reply-To: <002201c490fd$ce3ac460$348d2e8e@wightman.ca> From: "Andrea McElwain" Bounce-To: "Andrea McElwain" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i82Fx7xw087963 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On 9/2/2004, "Five Rivers" wrote: > I needing to find a source, preferably wholesale, for 3x4mm white fresh >water pearls, other than Canada Beading Supply, who don't have any >commercial grade, and I'm not willing to pay up to $14.00CDN/strand when I'm >needing easily 10 more strands to get on with this blessed Wind embroidery! > > Any help appreciated. > >Regards >Lorina I did a quick search at firemountaingems.com - would these work? If not, poke around a bit in the pearl section - they have plenty of others. http://www.firemountaingems.com/details.asp?PN=H141031PL Andrea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 2 12:33:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i82GXpRK009517 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 12:33:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82GWu4d003379 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Sep 2004 10:32:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82GWrxv016113; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 10:32:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail3.mdx.safepages.com (mail3.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82GWmxv016047 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 10:32:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail3.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 04AA389007; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 16:32:46 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust145.tnt2.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.178.145]) by mail3.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 7633089034 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 16:32:43 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <018601c4910a$bfaf1740$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C39C6@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] burgundian gown "trim" question Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 11:34:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here's the answer I sent: I dunno the answer, but as providence would have it, I noticed a couple of manuscript images last might that may have a bearing on this. They show two views of the same woman in a v-necked gown with no fur; looking at the other depictions of v-necked gowns in this manuscript, they're drawn the same way, except with fur trim at neck, sleeves, and hem. Here are the pictures: http://www.formfunction.org/temp/1475-80francois24.jpg http://www.formfunction.org/temp/1475-80francois23.jpg And here's a few normal, trimmed versions from the same manuscript for contrast: http://www.formfunction.org/temp/1475-80francois15.jpg http://www.formfunction.org/temp/1475-80francois34.jpg Incidentally, in this same manuscript nearly all of the v-necked dresses are only floor length, with no train! Overall, what I've seen shows the opposite; a handful of trainless gowns, and everything else trained. Including these, the only floor-length v-neck gown images I've found are from manuscripts. The manuscript is French, c1475-80, by Maître François,and can be found at: http://www.kb.nl/kb/manuscripts/search/index.html (I can't link directly; go to the 'Miniaturist' field and click on 'Index' beside it, then 'M', then scroll to the 5th from the bottom and click 'Maître François') (Here is the only other unlined v-neck image of this sort I've seen: http://www.formfunction.org/temp/c1500france2cropped.jpg ) Now, this could be taken more than one way: either this is what a gown of this style looks like if you just leave off the trim, or this is what a gown of this style looks like if you don't line it with fur. It seems to suggest the trim option to me, because if there it were normally furlined I'd expect to see an unlined lapel-type collar on it. However, from looking at other paintings and illuminations--and seeing a few gowns held up in such a way that the fur lining (matching the trim) is visible--I lean towards a third option: Both the lining AND the trim were left off of this gown. I think the two are separate, at least sometimes, and that you can have one without the other, or both at once, or neither at once. There are images where the neck trim is present, but the held-up skirt is unlined (1462, France). There's an image where the dress is clearly furlined, including the collar, but _over_ the fur of the collar there is a black collar: http://www.formfunction.org/temp/1460flemishcloseupcropped.jpg And a couple more views of the same woman: http://www.formfunction.org/temp/1460flemishcollarcropped.jpg http://www.formfunction.org/temp/1460flemish2cropped.jpg Of course, this could just be a separate collar, but the way it matches the edges of the fur so perfectly suggests that it's affixed somehow, which would fit the definition of trim. Here's an illumination showing what may be the same sort of thing, 40 years later: http://www.formfunction.org/temp/c1500france1cropped.jpg Here are a few images showing unlined, held-up skirts on gowns with fur trim at the neck: http://www.formfunction.org/temp/1462francecropped.jpg http://www.formfunction.org/temp/1462valeriusmaximuscropped.jpg http://www.formfunction.org/temp/1477bibel.jpg And since I'm about to order some velvet to use as a not-fur-but-kinda-like-fur lining on a different style from the same era, here are a few lined with something probably not fur: http://www.formfunction.org/temp/1467-80nethermaryburghourscropped.jpg http://www.formfunction.org/temp/150v.jpg http://tinyurl.com/5mols http://www.formfunction.org/temp/green-faux-fur.jpg The 1485 Decameron Hague KB 133 A 5 found at the manuscripts site mentioned above has several stunning non-fur images as well, but I forgot to upload them and I'm too lazy to do it now since I already closed that program. =P -E _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 2 14:59:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i82IxDHv011589 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 14:59:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82IwN4d019692 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Sep 2004 12:58:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82Iw9xv035490; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 12:58:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82Iw4xv035398 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 12:58:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25104 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 14:04:37 -0500 Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 14:04:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] fresh water pearls In-Reply-To: <002201c490fd$ce3ac460$348d2e8e@wightman.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 2 Sep 2004, Five Rivers wrote: > I needing to find a source, preferably wholesale, for 3x4mm white > fresh water pearls, other than Canada Beading Supply, who don't have > any commercial grade, and I'm not willing to pay up to > $14.00CDN/strand when I'm needing easily 10 more strands to get on > with this blessed Wind embroidery! South Pacific has good pearls. Best to contact them with your needs and ask about availability. http://www.beading.com/index.htm Or National Supply. Again, selection fluctuates, but they're really helpful with inquiries -- particularly if you call on a weekday morning (or at least not during lunch or late afternoon, and definitely not on Saturday when the place is jammed). http://www.nationalsupply.com/ --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 2 15:10:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i82JA1a4011631 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 15:10:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82J9R4d020823 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Sep 2004 13:09:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82J9Nxv044174; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 13:09:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com ([199.170.202.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82J9Kxv044106 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 13:09:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i82JUGhA063820 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 15:30:16 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: (from sfarmer@localhost) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3/Submit) id i82JUGRE063819 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 15:30:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 15:30:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Farmer Message-Id: <200409021930.i82JUGRE063819@sabre.goldsword.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] burgundian gown "trim" question In-Reply-To: <018601c4910a$bfaf1740$0400a8c0@compaqub> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Here's the answer I sent: > *much* snippage > here are a few lined with something probably not fur: > http://www.formfunction.org/temp/1467-80nethermaryburghourscropped.jpg > http://www.formfunction.org/temp/150v.jpg > http://tinyurl.com/5mols the above link doesn't work. It produces this string after the /temp/ lesgrandeschroniquesd///'angleterre_mariageduroyjeanduportugalcropped.jpg Jerusha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 2 15:24:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i82JOhc7011766 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 15:24:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82JMl4d022241 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Sep 2004 13:22:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82JMhxv054915; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 13:22:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web51105.mail.yahoo.com (web51105.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.147]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i82JMfxv054844 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 13:22:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celticcheri@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040902184809.72625.qmail@web51105.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.29.252.81] by web51105.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 02 Sep 2004 11:48:09 PDT Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 11:48:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Cheri To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C39B8@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Vest Pattern X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Good Morning everybody, I have found some very smart red, white and blue (don't think US flag) plaid fabric (2 yards) and it's telling me it wants to be a vest. This will be something I wear during the winter so it need to be comfy and fully lined. I do dress a bit out of the ordinary for around here, so I want something interesting. I will be drafting my own pattern from something I see. I'm thinking something Victorian? Not necessarily just a woman's pattern, I do wear "mens" clothing too. And I'm about a size 16, so I'd kinda like something flattering too. Big order? I know, but if anyone can help me find something wonderful, you people can! :) Thanks, Anne Go softly and gently for those you meet here will be those you know hereafter." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 2 15:53:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i82JrMYt011964 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 15:53:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82Jqa4d025387 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Sep 2004 13:52:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82JqUxv078883; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 13:52:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.fuse.net (mail-out1.fuse.net [216.68.8.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82JqSxv078801 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 13:52:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jemarshall@fuse.net) Received: from gx5.fuse.net ([66.42.215.214]) by smtp1.fuse.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.04 201-2131-111-106-20040729) with ESMTP id <20040902195221.HNEJ9752.smtp1.fuse.net@gx5.fuse.net> for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 15:52:21 -0400 Received: from netzero.fuse.net ([66.42.215.214]) by gx5.fuse.net (InterMail vG.1.00.00.00 201-2136-104-20040331) with ESMTP id <20040902195147.DAOK6699.gx5.fuse.net@netzero.fuse.net> for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 15:51:47 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20040902154025.00b6d4d0@pop.fuse.net> X-Sender: jemarshall@pop.fuse.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 15:44:26 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "J.E. Marshall" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Vanity Fair X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just got back from seeing Vanity Fair. Quite a good adaptation. The costuming was interesting. I truely enjoyed the men's waistcoats, especially George's feather one. This is not my time period, so all that I can say is that the gowns did look very nice and there were a couple of imaginative ones shown. Mind, the lead actress (Reece Witherspoon) was pregnant at the time that she made this movie. Anyone who does regency have any comments? Jennifer If you are squeamish, don't prod the beach rubble. Sappho _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 2 17:05:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i82L5rrW012940 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 17:05:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82L4s4d003043 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Sep 2004 15:04:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82L4mxv038367; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 15:04:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82L4fxv038249 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 15:04:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brujne@creighton.edu) Received: from cindyabel (cla53081.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA07115 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 16:04:36 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Vanity Fair Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 16:03:02 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20040902154025.00b6d4d0@pop.fuse.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just got back from seeing Vanity Fair. Quite a good adaptation. The costuming was interesting. I truely enjoyed the men's waistcoats, especially George's feather one. This is not my time period, so all that I can say is that the gowns did look very nice and there were a couple of imaginative ones shown. Mind, the lead actress (Reece Witherspoon) was pregnant at the time that she made this movie. Anyone who does regency have any comments? I hope to see this movie this weekend. Reportedly, the director asked Reece's husband, if he wouldn't mind trying to get Reece pregnant before filming started so she would have the correct Regency look, which the current Hollywood aesthetic ideal contradicts. See Gweyneth Paltrow in "Emma" for an example of Hollywood aesthetic triumphing over historical accuracy. Jenny Beavan also ran into the same pressure when doing the women's costuming for "Sense and Sensibility. It is probably why there are few film or TV dramas set during the late 1860's-1876 or mid 1880's as "we" consider the eras of the bustle unattractive. Personally, I'm at the age where I'd welcome the return of those fashions -- I could wear a smaller "improver" whereas the young and flat derriered would have to wear larger "improvers" to be fashionable. "Becky Sharp's wardrobe for the film was mostly chosen to be very colorful, to show her nouveau riche position as she climbed upward into society. I do that more color was coming into fashion c1810-1830 for women--the neoclassic white was mainly for the wealthy who could afford the imported muslins and silks and a servant expert in stain removal from anything white, plus the services of an expert dyer and embrodeirer when it was impossible to keep the white dress white any longer. Unless the white dress in question was beyond saving as it was--Henry Tilney in "Northanger Abbey" informs Catherine that a white dress could always be turned to some account if the muslin it was made of frayed when washed--a cloak(more of a scarf), neckerchief, or handkerchiefs. What is always fun in watching a "historical" movie is noting how the then current asesthetic influences the costumes and especially the makeup and hairstyles of the leading actors. This is really noticeable in such films from the 1910's through 1970's and is pretty readable in the films made during the 80's and '90's. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 2 18:24:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i82MOi7R013409 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 18:24:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82MMW4d010375 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Sep 2004 16:22:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82MMKxv098887; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 16:22:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tombstone.b.org.nz (qmailr@tombstone.paradise.gen.nz [202.49.254.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82MMGxw098700 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 16:22:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gold@where.else.net.nz) Received: (qmail 11806 invoked by uid 1057); 2 Sep 2004 22:22:05 -0000 Received: from gold@where.else.net.nz by tombstone by uid 71 with qmail-scanner-1.22 (clamdscan: 0.70. spamassassin: 2.63. Clear:RC:1(203.79.122.104):. Processed in 0.023692 secs); 02 Sep 2004 22:22:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.0.100?) (gold@203.79.122.104) by tombstone.paradise.gen.nz with SMTP; 2 Sep 2004 22:22:04 -0000 Message-ID: <41379D09.6040805@where.else.net.nz> Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2004 10:22:01 +1200 From: Melissa Brown User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.2 (Windows/20040707) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] fresh water pearls References: <002201c490fd$ce3ac460$348d2e8e@wightman.ca> In-Reply-To: <002201c490fd$ce3ac460$348d2e8e@wightman.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Five Rivers wrote: > I needing to find a source, preferably wholesale, for 3x4mm white fresh > water pearls, other than Canada Beading Supply, who don't have any > commercial grade, and I'm not willing to pay up to $14.00CDN/strand when I'm > needing easily 10 more strands to get on with this blessed Wind embroidery! Have you tried Fire Mountain Gems? They are in the US but their prices are really good. We even order through them from down here in NZ. http://www.firemountaingems.com/pearls.asp Good luck finding your pearls! Catalina _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 2 19:27:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i82NRTlt013718 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 19:27:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82NQo4d015365 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Sep 2004 17:26:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82NQiJD043405; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 17:26:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82NQeJD043364 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 17:26:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.134] (p22.3c03.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.134]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i82NPSG13696 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 17:25:28 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <1147ECA8-FD38-11D8-8B76-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: Historical Costume From: Sylvia Rognstad Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 17:30:25 -0600 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Colonial House X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Maybe this was brought up before and I missed it, but I'll inquire anyway. I havent seen PBS' Colonial House but I did see the rerun Oprah ran today about her short adventure there. She and her friend Gail had to remove all their underclothing when donning their costumes because they were told that panties were not worn until the 1800s. Now I always thought that bloomers of some type or another came in earlier than the 19th century. Am I wrong? Sylrog _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 2 19:35:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i82NZeQa013740 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 19:35:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82NZ04d015954 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Sep 2004 17:35:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82NYvJD048218; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 17:34:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.cableone.net (scanmail1.cableone.net [24.116.0.121]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i82NYsJD048181 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 17:34:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kbaird@cableone.net) Received: from kimathlon (unverified [24.119.35.202]) by smail1.cableone.net (SurgeMail 1.9b) with ESMTP id 16622525 for ; Thu, 02 Sep 2004 16:23:04 -0700 From: "kim baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Colonial House Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 18:35:14 -0500 Message-ID: <000201c49145$7f6409d0$6501a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <1147ECA8-FD38-11D8-8B76-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal X-Server: High Performance Mail Server - http://surgemail.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You are wrong. Of course, over the history of costume around the world, drawers have come and gone in various places. But in America women began to wear them because of hoops. Wearing a big hoop, if the wind blew it up or it caught on something, you could see everything underneath. Or is that an old wives tale? I do know that they were controversial in this country--some people objected to women wearing them at all. Kim -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Sylvia Rognstad Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 6:30 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Colonial House Maybe this was brought up before and I missed it, but I'll inquire anyway. I havent seen PBS' Colonial House but I did see the rerun Oprah ran today about her short adventure there. She and her friend Gail had to remove all their underclothing when donning their costumes because they were told that panties were not worn until the 1800s. Now I always thought that bloomers of some type or another came in earlier than the 19th century. Am I wrong? Sylrog _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 2 20:37:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i830bZn3013985 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 20:37:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i830at4d020036 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Sep 2004 18:36:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i830amTM083939; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 18:36:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i830ajTM083883 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 18:36:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m54.in-tch.com [216.166.191.54]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i830a2823030 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 18:36:02 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <4137BD9B.5010309@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 18:40:59 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] fresh water pearls References: <002201c490fd$ce3ac460$348d2e8e@wightman.ca> In-Reply-To: <002201c490fd$ce3ac460$348d2e8e@wightman.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What about Fire Mountain? They're in the US, but I betcha they ship north of the border! --sue Five Rivers wrote: > I needing to find a source, preferably wholesale, for 3x4mm white fresh > water pearls, other than Canada Beading Supply, who don't have any > commercial grade, and I'm not willing to pay up to $14.00CDN/strand when I'm > needing easily 10 more strands to get on with this blessed Wind embroidery! > > Any help appreciated. > > Regards > Lorina > Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage > fine hand-sewn embroidered garments, historical sewing patterns & embroidery > supplies > (519) 799-5577, http://www.5rivers.org email: info@5rivers.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 2 21:19:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i831JSc6014156 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 21:19:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i831Ip4d022488 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Sep 2004 19:18:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i831ImTM007528; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 19:18:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i831IjTM007463 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 19:18:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id E83EA5D4DA for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 18:18:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040902181657.00b14428@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 18:18:41 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] fresh water pearls In-Reply-To: <002201c490fd$ce3ac460$348d2e8e@wightman.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:02 AM 9/2/2004 -0400, you wrote: > I needing to find a source, preferably wholesale, for 3x4mm white fresh >water pearls, other than Canada Beading Supply, who don't have any >commercial grade, and I'm not willing to pay up to $14.00CDN/strand when I'm >needing easily 10 more strands to get on with this blessed Wind embroidery! > > Any help appreciated. > >Regards >Lorina Hi Lorina, Well beyond Fire Mountain Gems, here one a friend sent me for pearls. She likes this place a lot. http://www.treasureislandpearls.com/sunshop/ hth, Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 2 21:54:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i831sGrP014300 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 21:54:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i831rR4d024491 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Sep 2004 19:53:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i831rITM026105; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 19:53:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i831rBTM025974 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 19:53:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.147.176]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i831qw3t019544 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 11:52:59 +1000 Message-ID: <000001c49158$a66fa260$b093d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1524340.1094057489171.JavaMail.root@wamui01.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: OT: standards of reply Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 17:13:34 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Laning" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 2:51 AM Subject: [h-cost] RE: OT: standards of reply > I'm continually amazed by the people who flatly declare "top posting is rude" well it's not top posting per-se that's rude it's top posting without cutting any of the extraneous material removed, as you'll notice I've just left in the one statement I'm replying to and indicated that I have cut out other information with the word "snip". I've seen posts to groups where people have left several posts intact below their own post e.g. Post #1 by John Post #2 in reply to John by Adam (leaves entire text of John's message intact) Post #3 in reply to Adam by Mary (leaves both John and Adam's messages below her own) Post #4 in reply to Mary by John (now has 3 posts below anything they have added) Post #5 Jane writes "me too" on top of post #4 N.B. all names are fictional and were picked entirely at random I'm not talking about anybody in particular. this sort of thing eats up bandwidth and can go on for pages this is particularly annoying for digest people. Although one of the most annoying things I think I've seen is when a digest person top posts leaving the entire contents of the digest below leaving the subject line digest #... and there is almost no way to identify what they are replying to. Elizabeth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 2 22:06:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8326ulC014398 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 22:06:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8326B4d025549 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Sep 2004 20:06:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i83268TM033243; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 20:06:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.198]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i83265TM033206 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 20:06:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jacquelinejbump@gmail.com) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 78so320894rnk for ; Thu, 02 Sep 2004 19:06:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.11.79 with SMTP id 79mr268214rnk; Thu, 02 Sep 2004 19:06:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.163.44 with HTTP; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 19:06:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4c5accc804090219065ab95eb3@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 22:06:00 -0400 From: Kristalori History To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: OT: standards of reply In-Reply-To: <000001c49158$a66fa260$b093d6cb@ewalpole> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <1524340.1094057489171.JavaMail.root@wamui01.slb.atl.earthlink.net> <000001c49158$a66fa260$b093d6cb@ewalpole> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Amen. As a few up here know I run the SCA-Garb list that has 2381 people on it. And many are on digest and I catch hell if people don't trim and hell if they do and hell if I chastise them for not trimming. I am ok with top posting though it makes sense to post the answer AFTER the question. On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 17:13:34 +1000, Elizabeth Walpole > well it's not top posting per-se that's rude it's top posting without > cutting any of the extraneous material removed, > Elizabeth -- "Pardon me, Lady Tudor Glitz, but telling people things aren't period isn't period." Italian Ladies 2005 Calendar http://www.lulu.com/kristalori _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 3 00:07:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8347XCA014886 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 00:07:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8346b4d002687 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Sep 2004 22:06:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8346WTM098473; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 22:06:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8346UTM098402 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 22:06:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lauren.walker@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (h0006255ec5ea.ne.client2.attbi.com[66.31.43.36]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <20040903040625011008euk2e>; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 04:06:25 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2004 00:05:19 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] fresh water pearls From: Lauren Walker To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <002201c490fd$ce3ac460$348d2e8e@wightman.ca> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Also try http://www.thaigem.com, under "gemstone beads". Everything I have bought from them so far has exceeded expectations. > From: "Five Rivers" > I needing to find a source, preferably wholesale, for 3x4mm white fresh > water pearls, other than Canada Beading Supply, _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 3 00:51:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i834pKE2015099 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 00:51:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i834ob4d005379 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Sep 2004 22:50:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i834oYTM022185; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 22:50:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm01.prodigy.net (ylpvm01-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i834oTTM022156 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 22:50:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema (adsl-69-107-77-10.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.77.10]) by ylpvm01.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with SMTP id i834oDCf019899 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 00:50:24 -0400 Message-Id: <4.1.20040902215006.018739a0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 21:53:27 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Vanity Fair In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20040902154025.00b6d4d0@pop.fuse.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Mind, the lead actress (Reece Witherspoon) was >pregnant at the time that she made this movie. Anyone who does regency >have any comments? A couple of days before one of my daughters was due, I attended a Gaskell Ball in c1795, with a pad in back and the daughter in front. I didn't indent the high waist all the way to my ribs, so the front of the dress hung straight down from the 'waist'. I looked as big as the fashion plates. (They wouldn't let me polka that night, only waltz, and the daughter arrived 4 days later than the due date...) CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 3 02:35:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i836Z0xd027869 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 02:35:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i836X44d010400 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Sep 2004 00:33:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i836WkTM074221; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 00:32:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail1.plugit.com [66.210.223.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i836WhTM074174 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 00:32:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AE6D764700C8; Fri, 03 Sep 2004 01:25:49 -0500 Received: from MOM [69.241.150.7] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AE1712301C4; Fri, 03 Sep 2004 01:24:23 -0500 Message-ID: <002801c4917f$a4407ba0$0300a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 02:31:27 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by ElectroSHIELD (www.plugit.com) for spam. X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] OT: Victorian Homes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i836Z0xd027869 Status: RO Not costume, but Victorian & Edwardian style homes in a little town, Cape Charles, Virginia. http://www.costumegallery.com/homes/CapeCharles/ There are little towns like this all over Virginia and the U.S. I took these photos while on vacation. I have always wanted to own a home like in a little town. We almost bought one but had to considered to removal of the lead paint in this era's homes could cost more than the price tag for the house. When in high school, I couldn't decide to go to college for fashion or architectural drawing. I tried a semester of architectural drawing and decided it was too much science for me... so I moved on to be a fashion major. If fate hadn't stepped in, I would have had a very large historic architecture website! Actually, I have found many historic fashion followers, also like historic architecture. BTW, this area is in the free area of my website. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Online Reference Library, AND Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumegallery.com/research.htm www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 3 03:53:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i837rpaK021094 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 03:53:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i837r54d013807 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Sep 2004 01:53:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i837qrTM014079; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 01:52:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.254.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i837qmTM014024 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 01:52:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2004 08:52:45 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: RE: [h-cost] O/T Re: bullies (WAS: Teen styles) To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C39D1@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] O/T Re: bullies (WAS: Teen styles) Thread-Index: AcSRF59y2MhHWPRkSHyfS4tpEN89VwAcxU5w content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.21 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO O/T Re: bullies (WAS: RE: [h-cost] Teen styles (WAS:Pants > below the crotch)) > My father *insisted* that I fight back by kicking > these boys in the genitals...... > > BTW, this was a sort of continuation of how they treated ALL girls they > took to be from "the right side of the tracks" since the earliest levels of > elementary school. Tell me I didn't grow up learning how to be anything > OTHER than a victim??????? At least your father seemed to have the right idea! Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 3 04:04:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8384neY026724 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 04:04:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i838494d014173 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Sep 2004 02:04:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i83846TM019172; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 02:04:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from alpha2.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (alpha2.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.0.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i83843TM019141 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 02:04:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2004 09:03:59 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: RE: [h-cost] burgundian gown "trim" question To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C39D2@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] burgundian gown "trim" question Thread-Index: AcSRF59y2MhHWPRkSHyfS4tpEN89VwAdGhSw content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.21 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > There's an image where the dress is clearly > furlined, including the collar, but _over_ the fur of the collar there is a > black collar: > http://www.formfunction.org/temp/1460flemishcloseupcropped.jpg > And a couple more views of the same woman: > http://www.formfunction.org/temp/1460flemishcollarcropped.jpg > http://www.formfunction.org/temp/1460flemish2cropped.jpg > Of course, this could just be a separate collar, but the way > it matches the edges of the fur so perfectly suggests that it's affixed > somehow, which would fit the definition of trim. Here's an illumination > showing what may be the same sort of thing, 40 years later: > http://www.formfunction.org/temp/c1500france1cropped.jpg Those images suggest to me that it might be a black undergown with a collar that is worn *over* the collar of the overgown... the last image shows the black skirt of the undergown Again - it could be that it was done as a full-gown sometimes and "faked" by attaching a second collar others... As so often with these things, we're into surmise, interpret,extrapolate and guess country and it's always possibkle there was no one "strandard" way of doing it. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 3 05:06:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8396vTl015145 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 05:06:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8396C4d017088 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Sep 2004 03:06:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i83966TM049525; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 03:06:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from gold.wightman.ca (gold.wightman.ca [216.249.0.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i83964TM049510 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 03:06:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lgsteph@wightman.ca) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by gold.wightman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CF1B47710 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 05:06:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d7k7b6 (unknown [142.46.141.52]) by gold.wightman.ca (Postfix) with SMTP id D82604770F for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 05:06:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001501c49195$c9a67320$348d2e8e@wightman.ca> From: "Five Rivers" To: References: <200409030753.i837rgTN014427@net.indra.com> Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 05:09:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re:freshwater pearls X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As always all of you are a wealth of information. Pearls ordered and on the way. Many thanks. I AM going to get this Wind embroidery done and off the frame. Water, here we come! Regards Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage fine hand-sewn embroidered garments, historical sewing patterns & embroidery supplies (519) 799-5577, http://www.5rivers.org email: info@5rivers.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 3 10:15:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i83EF9JP016382 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 10:15:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i83EE24d006037 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Sep 2004 08:14:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i83EDnTM009303; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 08:13:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.202.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i83EDlTM009220 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 08:13:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from ches (c-24-1-84-130.client.comcast.net[24.1.84.130]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <2004090314134101200buf1me>; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 14:13:41 +0000 Message-ID: <0b4601c491c0$2389d380$6500a8c0@ches> From: "Chiara" To: "h-costume" Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 09:10:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Fw: Pick Your BEAD Savings. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here is more help with the pearl search. :) >It's our Bead Bargin Bonanza! > >20%, 35%, up to 65% Off Already Low Outlet Store Prices. > >SAVE Now: >http://email.firemountaingems.com/t/64828/23357/986/0/ > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ > >Dear Beading Friends, > >Cowabunga -- it is Bead Bargain Bonanza time. Step right up and choose >your savings. We have further reduced the already-low Outlet Store prices >on selected items up to 65%. Pick your savings category and enjoy the >wallet-saving prices. You're going to absolutely love these values. 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Contact Customer Service at (800) 423-2319 > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ > >Prices subject to change without prior notice. >Not responsible for typographical errors, or descriptive or technical >errors for products listed. > >Fire Mountain Gems and Beads >One Fire Mountain Way, Grants Pass, OR 97526-2373 >Copyright 2004 All rights reserved. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 3 12:38:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i83GcdTi017257 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 12:38:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i83Gbr4d019789 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Sep 2004 10:37:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i83GbnTM022960; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 10:37:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail11.mdx.safepages.com (mail11.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i83GbjTM022895 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 10:37:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 264B5A082A; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 16:37:47 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust109.tnt1.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.148.109]) by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 3BD38A08D9 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 16:37:46 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <023801c491d4$9be2e8d0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200409021930.i82JUGRE063819@sabre.goldsword.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] burgundian gown "trim" question Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 11:39:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Farmer" > the above link doesn't work. It produces this string after the /temp/ > lesgrandeschroniquesd///'angleterre_mariageduroyjeanduportugalcropped.jpg Sorry about that! Try this instead: http://www.formfunction.org/temp/jeanduportugal.jpg -E House Liberty in Our Lifetime - www.freestateproject.org Coming Soon - http://www.seamcheckers.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 3 12:43:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i83GhB29017266 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 12:43:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i83GgN4d020322 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Sep 2004 10:42:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i83GgKTM026616; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 10:42:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i83GgGTM026460 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 10:42:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00797 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 11:48:47 -0500 Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 11:48:46 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] v-neck gowns In-Reply-To: <016601c490e7$b785c960$0400a8c0@compaqub> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 2 Sep 2004, E House wrote: > http://www.uvm.edu/%7Ehag/sca/15th/ainsworthp133.jpg > > And I wonder... do you think it more likely that the fur around the > neckline (or velvet or whatever) is more likely to be: > - a trim, just sewn onto the dress > - or something turned-back similar to a modern jackets' lapel (Sneaking in some list reading on a break from heavy deadlines -- no time for really long posts today, sorry) Two answers here, depending on whether you mean "this style in general" or "this dress in particular." On the style in general: The V-necked fashion goes through a lot of change over the 15th c., including some significant construction shifts, not just incremental modifications. The fashion clearly develops directly out of the houppelande, and it seems clear that the fur V originated as a turn-back of the neck opening on the fur-lined houppelande. Ditto the cuffs, as a turn-back (somewhere I have an image in which a woman has her cuffs turned back at two different lengths, showing different amounts of fur). Anyway, in the earlier examples, the fur generally appears to be a turnback or a lapel-style "spillover" of the fur lining following the V-shape of the opened center front. Over time, the neck decoration appears to become formalized as a design element in itself, which means that from a construction standpoint, the fur may be added simply as a separate piece, either of the same type of fur as the lining, or a more expensive fur (because it's visible), or even as a decorative addition on a gown lined with something other than fur (though the combination of fur collar, cuffs, and hem band seems by far most common, suggesting that the full fur lining is the norm). Around the late 1460s there's a notable shift to a different (more fitted) body cut, which is pretty much all you see from 1470 on, with very rare exceptions. My own theories on the nature of the later body cut (posted here before, and also a common lecture topic for me) would indicate that the collar at that point could no longer be formed by a turnback or lapel construction, and would need to be separately laid over; there are a number of ways to accomplish this. By this time, I think it's safe to say that the V-neck decoration is strictly a decorative convention ordinarily applied to this dress style. After the construction shift, you also start seeing more variations in the V decoration, including materials that might be something other than fur and changes in height, shape, and angle of the added piece. Because the collar is now a decorative add-on, that also means it can be omitted without affecting the rest of the dress, and you see that happen occasionally. This is something that could not have occurred with the earliest versions of the style, but became possible only after the collar had ceased to be an integral component or byproduct of the body construction. On this dress in particular: This one's still early in the progression, clearly pre-1460. We're still in turnback/label territory here. The fur turned-back cuffs and the hem spillover suggest it's safe to assume you've got a full fur lining. It's gorgeous, too. I've been planning for some time to make one like this. I have gotten a bolt of grey wool that has a thick furry nap that looks like a close-cropped fur that I'm intending to use as a full lining on something like this. Alas, it won't tell me how real fur behaves, but that's not something I can personally afford to explore -- particularly the interesting theory (from Stevie Gamble, on this list) that the regular pleats/folds that occur on the outside are a function of the pressure from the regular vertical parallel seams used to piece hundreds of inch-wide squirrel skins into a larger fur lining. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 3 13:29:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i83HTZ3o017516 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 13:29:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i83HSa4d024930 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Sep 2004 11:28:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i83HSNTM063592; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 11:28:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i83HSETN063469 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 11:28:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i83HQaTA029605 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 13:26:36 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Fri, 03 Sep 2004 13:26:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4138A9AC.3020800@thibault.org> Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2004 13:28:12 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] v-neck gowns References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: > the interesting theory (from Stevie Gamble, on this list) that the regular > pleats/folds that occur on the outside are a function of the pressure from > the regular vertical parallel seams used to piece hundreds of inch-wide > squirrel skins into a larger fur lining. That is intriguing indeed. However, a full interior fur lining would make the garments very thick through the body, especially considering how wide they are to be gathered in by the belt. The images are universally narrow through the body, not more than one would expect with just fabric layers. With fur, a garment like that compresses, empty, to the size of an average woman's torso, and larger if it is a thicker fur; the images, if they were all fur lined, would make every woman wearing a houppelande to look extremly thick-bodied. Granted, there's some artistic license going on here, but that extreme a difference? And every artist from tapestries to illuminations doing the same thing? I have doubts. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent If they keep adding obscure sports to the Olympics, it's only a matter of time before somebody gets a gold medal for making balloon animals. I think they should combine some of these sports. Like, they could combine fencing and trampoline into one sport, called ''fampoline.'' I'd pay good money to see that. -- Dave Barry _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 3 13:34:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i83HYkaj017539 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 13:34:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i83HY84d025414 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Sep 2004 11:34:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i83HY5TM068120; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 11:34:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (chori.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i83HY2TM067998 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 11:34:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ldownward@chori.org) X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Sophos http://raeinternet.com/mpp Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP-TLS id 1369741 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Sep 2004 10:33:55 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.0.0.040405 Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2004 10:33:54 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] O/T Re: bullies (WAS: Teen styles) From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C39D1@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Good for your dad! My dad always told us, "Never start a fight but make dam* sure you finish the fight. That will also help keep you out of future fights." LynnD > From: Teddy > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2004 08:52:45 +0100 > To: > Subject: RE: [h-cost] O/T Re: bullies (WAS: Teen styles) > > O/T Re: bullies (WAS: RE: [h-cost] Teen styles (WAS:Pants >> below the crotch)) > >> My father *insisted* that I fight back by kicking >> these boys in the genitals...... >> >> BTW, this was a sort of continuation of how they treated ALL girls > they >> took to be from "the right side of the tracks" since the earliest > levels of >> elementary school. Tell me I didn't grow up learning how to be > anything >> OTHER than a victim??????? > > At least your father seemed to have the right idea! > > Teddy > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 3 15:45:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i83JjHVH017711 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 15:45:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i83Isr4d003035 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Sep 2004 12:54:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i83IsjTM029882; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 12:54:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i83IshTM029750 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 12:54:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be96.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.150]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 5504F5EE062 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 20:54:30 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000901c491e7$85487e10$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 20:55:00 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] testing X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, just testing if my status on the list works again. I had set my mail to no mail while i was in Italy. Xenia sended me pictures from the wedding so now you can se her with the prinse here: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/xenia.htm Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 3 15:45:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i83JjHVJ017711 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 15:45:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i83I3F4d028344 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Sep 2004 12:03:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i83I3ATM091312; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 12:03:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i83I0uTM089448 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 12:00:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01497 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 13:07:34 -0500 Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 13:07:33 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] v-neck gowns In-Reply-To: <4138A9AC.3020800@thibault.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 3 Sep 2004, Cynthia Virtue wrote: > However, a full interior fur lining would make the garments very thick > through the body, especially considering how wide they are to be > gathered in by the belt. The images are universally narrow through > the body, not more than one would expect with just fabric layers. I've seen fur that's *that* thin. And that's what would have been used. The near-universal use of fur linings -- full-body fur linings -- for the gowns of the nobility in this period is well documented (from period accounts, inventories, laws, and guild regulations, not just pictures). Elspeth Veale is the best starting point. Reading that book -- and it's a good read, too, not dry at all -- changed the way I look at clothing from this period. This is why I'm planning on lining one of these dresses with a furry-surface napped wool fabric. It's closer in weight to a fine fur than any fur I could afford. Though truth is, the fur was probably finer and more compressible than even the wool will be. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 3 15:45:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i83JjHVL017711 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 15:45:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i83IuH4d003219 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Sep 2004 12:56:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i83IuFTM030984; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 12:56:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i83Iu9TM030931 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 12:56:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B76B62BF1D for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 13:56:07 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p029.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.214.31]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id AA305C5F6 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 13:56:06 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] O/T Re: bullies (WAS: Teen styles) Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 13:56:24 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was taught, first you turn the other cheek, and since you only have so many cheeks and that fails you go through the chain of command. If that fails you defend yourself, do what you have to and get out of there. There will be times you will have to resort to #3 before the other two. You must never start a fight but ending one comes under #3. De -----Original Message----- Good for your dad! My dad always told us, "Never start a fight but make dam* sure you finish the fight. That will also help keep you out of future fights." LynnD > From: Teddy > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2004 08:52:45 +0100 > To: > Subject: RE: [h-cost] O/T Re: bullies (WAS: Teen styles) > > O/T Re: bullies (WAS: RE: [h-cost] Teen styles (WAS:Pants >> below the crotch)) > >> My father *insisted* that I fight back by kicking >> these boys in the genitals...... >> >> BTW, this was a sort of continuation of how they treated ALL girls > they >> took to be from "the right side of the tracks" since the earliest > levels of >> elementary school. Tell me I didn't grow up learning how to be > anything >> OTHER than a victim??????? > > At least your father seemed to have the right idea! > > Teddy > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 3 16:01:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i83K1C4o017784 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 16:01:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i83K0L4d008890 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Sep 2004 14:00:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i83K0HTM079153; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 14:00:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i83K0DTM079103 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 14:00:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.97] (pm7-097.eos.net [205.133.149.97]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i83K0ALr013638 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 16:00:10 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2004 15:56:50 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200409030753.i837rgTN014427@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 709 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cindy Abel: > What is always fun in watching a "historical" movie is noting how the then > current asesthetic influences the costumes and especially the makeup and > hairstyles of the leading actors. This is really noticeable in such films > from the 1910's through 1970's and is pretty readable in the films made > during the 80's and '90's. My children recently noticed that Princess Leia in Star Wars (the original one) had very pink shiny lips. I told them that was the style at the time, as was her pink eyeshadows. My seven-year-old got smart-alecky and told me "there wasn't a back then, this is in the future!" But my 10-year-old was very interested, especially in the pink eyeshadow. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 3 16:11:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i83KBhlP017810 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 16:11:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i83J5K4d003979 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Sep 2004 13:05:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i83J5HTM037902; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 13:05:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (chori.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i83J5DTM037799 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 13:05:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ldownward@chori.org) X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Sophos http://raeinternet.com/mpp Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP-TLS id 1370339 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Sep 2004 12:05:07 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.0.0.040405 Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2004 12:05:06 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] O/T Re: bullies (WAS: Teen styles) From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, four cheeks is enough, and sometimes the chain of command works too. In this enlightened age, my daughters were taught TWA at school: TALK to the person and ask them to stop WALK away from the person if they won't stop ASK a teacher to intervene. This sometimes worked. But for one boy, even knowing that he had to stay at least 30 feet from my daughter at any time - yes even in class - didn't work. When it didn't, Dad's advice was Plan B. LynnD > From: otsisto > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 13:56:24 -0500 > To: Historical Costume > Subject: RE: [h-cost] O/T Re: bullies (WAS: Teen styles) > > I was taught, first you turn the other cheek, and since you only have so > many cheeks and that fails you go through the chain of command. If that > fails you defend yourself, do what you have to and get out of there. There > will be times you will have to resort to #3 before the other two. > You must never start a fight but ending one comes under #3. > > De > > -----Original Message----- > Good for your dad! > > My dad always told us, "Never start a fight but make dam* sure you finish > the fight. That will also help keep you out of future fights." > > LynnD > >> From: Teddy >> Reply-To: Historical Costume >> Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2004 08:52:45 +0100 >> To: >> Subject: RE: [h-cost] O/T Re: bullies (WAS: Teen styles) >> >> O/T Re: bullies (WAS: RE: [h-cost] Teen styles (WAS:Pants >>> below the crotch)) >> >>> My father *insisted* that I fight back by kicking >>> these boys in the genitals...... >>> >>> BTW, this was a sort of continuation of how they treated ALL girls >> they >>> took to be from "the right side of the tracks" since the earliest >> levels of >>> elementary school. Tell me I didn't grow up learning how to be >> anything >>> OTHER than a victim??????? >> >> At least your father seemed to have the right idea! >> >> Teddy >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 3 16:11:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i83KBhlR017810 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 16:11:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i83JC54d004539 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Sep 2004 13:12:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i83JC3TM043120; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 13:12:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41511.mail.yahoo.com (web41511.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.94]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i83JBwTM043011 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 13:11:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celtic_dragonrider@yahoo.ca) Message-ID: <20040903191153.79296.qmail@web41511.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.82.52.78] by web41511.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 03 Sep 2004 15:11:53 EDT Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 15:11:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Janet Renzetti Subject: Re: [h-cost] O/T Re: bullies (WAS: Teen styles) To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO THings don't always work that way. The parents believe the child (if the child says something and doesn't bloc it out. Personal experience was that I forgot everything as soon as the bell rang. My parents didnt know that things were happening to me. THe teacher was just as uch to blame as the children. I was the youngest of the class by 2 years and I was the scapegoat. I was picked on by the students and by the teachers. Later, the last of the 6 schools I ever attended that weren't college, when my parents knew happened to me before they set up an escape plan and had meetings with the teachers. THe abuse by teachers and students still went on. SO much for the chain of command. I have no idea were that teacher is, but last I heard, several years ago, they were still teaching. THe one tacher was even the principle. Some people say that is because it was a public school. I tell them I went to 3 public and 3 private and it happened to both. I think the private were worse because they were following that the men came first therefore the girls haave to submit. FOrget that. I was homeschooled most of my school years and attended college later because regular school never worked out. My parents also put my ssister brother and I in Karate so we coud better protect ourselves because obviously there is a break down in the in society. It shouldn't be that way, but I understand when children say that help wasn't there and they felt there was no option for them. Janet Lynn Downward wrote: Yes, four cheeks is enough, and sometimes the chain of command works too. In this enlightened age, my daughters were taught TWA at school: TALK to the person and ask them to stop WALK away from the person if they won't stop ASK a teacher to intervene. This sometimes worked. But for one boy, even knowing that he had to stay at least 30 feet from my daughter at any time - yes even in class - didn't work. When it didn't, Dad's advice was Plan B. LynnD > From: otsisto > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 13:56:24 -0500 > To: Historical Costume > Subject: RE: [h-cost] O/T Re: bullies (WAS: Teen styles) > > I was taught, first you turn the other cheek, and since you only have so > many cheeks and that fails you go through the chain of command. If that > fails you defend yourself, do what you have to and get out of there. There > will be times you will have to resort to #3 before the other two. > You must never start a fight but ending one comes under #3. > > De > > -----Original Message----- > Good for your dad! > > My dad always told us, "Never start a fight but make dam* sure you finish > the fight. That will also help keep you out of future fights." > > LynnD > >> From: Teddy >> Reply-To: Historical Costume >> Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2004 08:52:45 +0100 >> To: >> Subject: RE: [h-cost] O/T Re: bullies (WAS: Teen styles) >> >> O/T Re: bullies (WAS: RE: [h-cost] Teen styles (WAS:Pants >>> below the crotch)) >> >>> My father *insisted* that I fight back by kicking >>> these boys in the genitals...... >>> >>> BTW, this was a sort of continuation of how they treated ALL girls >> they >>> took to be from "the right side of the tracks" since the earliest >> levels of >>> elementary school. Tell me I didn't grow up learning how to be >> anything >>> OTHER than a victim??????? >> >> At least your father seemed to have the right idea! >> >> Teddy >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 3 16:18:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i83KI7bw017857 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 16:18:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i83KHI4d010474 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Sep 2004 14:17:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i83KHDTM092050; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 14:17:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from morgoth.tuug.fi (morgoth.tuug.fi [130.232.72.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i83KHATM091989 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 14:17:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lynoure@tuug.fi) Received: by morgoth.tuug.fi (Postfix, from userid 15211) id A51E89E214; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 23:17:06 +0300 (EEST) Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 23:17:06 +0300 (EEST) From: Ella Lynoure Braakman To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] A back view of a Saxon princess gown X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have searched and search and haven't yet found even a moderately good back view of a gown similar to the ones worn my the three Saxon princesses in the Cranach painting. Is there such a picture? If there is, could someone kindly point me to it? -- Lynoure Braakman lynoure@tuug.fi -- Lynoure Rajamaki lynoure@tuug.fi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 3 16:41:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i83Kf20l018039 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 16:41:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i83Ke94d013330 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Sep 2004 14:40:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i83Ke0TM009788; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 14:40:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from granger.mail.mindspring.net (granger.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i83KdxTM009738 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 14:39:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from sdn-ap-009masprip0299.dialsprint.net ([63.186.145.45]) by granger.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1C3Kqj-0003tb-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Sep 2004 16:39:58 -0400 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2004 16:40:45 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] testing From: ruthanne baumgartner To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000901c491e7$85487e10$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne, this (she) simply takes the breath away! What beautiful work, and what a beautiful young woman! --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer on 9/3/04 2:55 PM, Bjarne og Leif Drews at drewscph@post12.tele.dk wrote: > Hi, just testing if my status on the list works again. > I had set my mail to no mail while i was in Italy. > Xenia sended me pictures from the wedding so now you can se her with the > prinse here: > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/xenia.htm > > > Bjarne > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 3 17:08:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i83L8DUW018120 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 17:08:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i83L7W4d015680 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Sep 2004 15:07:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i83L6jTM029995; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 15:06:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i83L6YTM029867 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 15:06:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id C644EB4B0; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 14:06:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040903135902.024a6630@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2004 14:06:27 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com, PlusCostumeChat@yahoogroups.com, Courtesan@yahoogroups.com, Elizabethan-Costume@yahoogroups.com, CIRGA@yahoogroups.com, CIRGA-Ambassadors@yahoogroups.com From: Kimiko Small Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] OT: costume group forming in Fresno CA area X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all There is a costume group forming in the Fresno CA area. If you are local to this area, or willing to drive for it, please contact me off list (kimiko@kimiko1.com or costumegroup@kimiko1.com) for more information. The first meeting is an organizational one, and we would love as much input from everyone who is interested as possible. Thanks, and back to your regular programming. Kimiko Small _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 3 20:30:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i840UCY6018880 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 20:30:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i840T04d009396 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Sep 2004 18:29:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i840SqTM069277; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 18:28:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i840SmTM069246 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 18:28:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m134.in-tch.com [216.166.191.134]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i840S7810003 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 18:28:07 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <41390D41.8020102@in-tch.com> Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2004 18:33:05 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] testing References: <000901c491e7$85487e10$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <000901c491e7$85487e10$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO *sigh* It's beautiful. So is the bride! How satisfying it must be to see something you've made turn out so well! Hope you had a good time in Italy. --sue, in cool, rainy Montana Bjarne Drews wrote: > Hi, just testing if my status on the list works again. > I had set my mail to no mail while i was in Italy. > Xenia sended me pictures from the wedding so now you can se her with the > prinse here: > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/xenia.htm _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 3 20:44:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i840hxmD018934 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 20:43:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i840hK4d010426 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Sep 2004 18:43:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i840hJTM077629; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 18:43:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grunt11.ihug.co.nz (grunt11.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i840hHTM077523 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 18:43:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from p50-max5.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.207.178] by grunt11.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1C3Oe6-0000dl-00; Sat, 04 Sep 2004 12:43:10 +1200 Message-ID: <003101c49218$258bb600$b2cfadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] A back view of a Saxon princess gown Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2004 12:43:06 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I have searched and search and haven't yet found even a moderately good > back view of a gown similar to the ones worn my the three Saxon princesses > in the Cranach painting. Is there such a picture? If there is, could > someone kindly point me to it? There are lots:) But finding them is obviously difficult;) The best is The Fountain of Youth by Cranach. I also have a number of photocopies of Cranach paintings that show the backs. http://frazzledfrau.glittersweet.com/1546cranfountainyouth.htm I've included a link to a larger image, you may even find details of the painting if you look on the web. They mostly seem to be curved at the back, while the Swiss styles seem to be more square in general. The curve seems to be exaggerated in a few of Cranach's allegorical/religious figures. That's a point actually. I've been meaning to update the site, maybe a page on the backs of gowns would be a good idea... Also take a look at Mary of Hungary's gown, the curved neck of the back and neckline that terminates at the waist is extremely reminiscent of the style: http://frazzledfrau.glittersweet.com/mary/index.htm michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 3 21:46:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i841kEkj019116 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 21:46:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i841jX4d015324 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Sep 2004 19:45:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i841jTTM012686; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 19:45:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i841jQTM012541 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 19:45:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.147.75]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i841j3G5010991 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 11:45:12 +1000 Message-ID: <001201c49220$b9fd23c0$4b93d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1147ECA8-FD38-11D8-8B76-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colonial House and pre 19th century underwear Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 14:26:23 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Maybe this was brought up before and I missed it, but I'll inquire > anyway. I haven't seen PBS' Colonial House but I did see the rerun > Oprah ran today about her short adventure there. She and her friend > Gail had to remove all their underclothing when donning their costumes > because they were told that panties were not worn until the 1800s. Now > I always thought that bloomers of some type or another came in earlier > than the 19th century. Am I wrong? > > Sylrog You are correct that drawers for women existed prior to the 19th century, IIRC there is a 16th century Italian pair of embroidered (crotchless ?) drawers in Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd (I've got a scan of the page with a B&W pic and a description saved somewhere but I'm not sure which book it's from). However that doesn't mean that ordinary middle to working class English women were wearing them in the mid 17th century. I've heard some mention of drawers being a particularly slow fashion to spread into England and equally slow to spread into the lower classes. Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra Australia ewalpole@austar.net.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 3 22:26:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i842QOHV019205 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 22:26:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i842Pd4d018018 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Sep 2004 20:25:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i842PZTM034051; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 20:25:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from priv-edtnes46.telusplanet.net (defout.telus.net [199.185.220.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i842PXTM034006 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 20:25:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from edieann@telus.net) Received: from moms ([154.5.142.106]) by priv-edtnes46.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.02 201-2131-111-104-20040324) with SMTP id <20040904022527.GWIE7370.priv-edtnes46.telusplanet.net@moms> for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 20:25:27 -0600 Message-ID: <005301c49227$9af5db00$6a8e059a@bc.hsia.telus.net> From: "Edith Reardon" To: Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 19:33:47 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Montreal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i842QOHV019205 Status: RO Okay, I have finally booked our airfare and need a list of fabric shops to shop at in Montreal. Where, hours?? any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Brin Kendall _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 3 22:33:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i842X07L019260 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 22:33:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i842WG4d018401 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Sep 2004 20:32:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i842WFTM037679; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 20:32:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from asmtp-a063f33.pas.sa.earthlink.net (asmtp-a063f33.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.120.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i842WBTM037650 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 20:32:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-4.155.57.165.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([4.155.57.165] helo=HELENPINTO) by asmtp-a063f33.pas.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1C3QLb-0001gA-0s for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Sep 2004 19:32:12 -0700 Message-ID: <042901c49227$528c9020$a5399b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <003101c49218$258bb600$b2cfadcb@michaela> Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 22:31:36 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9ef18ec8fa06be465573e54e3cbdf77faae350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.155.57.165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Paintings of Pregnant Women X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sometime in the last week or two, someone was looking for paintings of pregnant women. While looking for books, I came across this "Visitation" by Marx Reichlich, ca 1511. Both the Virgin and St Anne are visibly pregnant (complete with tiny fetuses having a meet-and-greet between their bellies) and wearing much more archaic clothing (cyclas-type surcoat, loose gowns, wimple, veils) than the two other women on the street, who look very 16c German. http://cgfa.sunsite.dk/r/p-reichli1.htm Enjoy, -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 3 22:48:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i842mTiG019352 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 22:48:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i842li4d019412 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Sep 2004 20:47:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i842lfTM046102; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 20:47:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i842ldTM046077 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 20:47:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.166] (p06.3c04.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.166]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i842kQG28169 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 20:46:26 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <001201c49220$b9fd23c0$4b93d6cb@ewalpole> References: <1147ECA8-FD38-11D8-8B76-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> <001201c49220$b9fd23c0$4b93d6cb@ewalpole> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <4F04532F-FE1D-11D8-9E26-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colonial House and pre 19th century underwear Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 20:51:24 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It just occurred to me that they were worn though prior to the 1850s-60s crinolines though in the form of pantaloons in the early 1800s, werent they? Sylrog On Sep 2, 2004, at 10:26 PM, Elizabeth Walpole wrote: > > >> Maybe this was brought up before and I missed it, but I'll inquire >> anyway. I haven't seen PBS' Colonial House but I did see the rerun >> Oprah ran today about her short adventure there. She and her friend >> Gail had to remove all their underclothing when donning their costumes >> because they were told that panties were not worn until the 1800s. >> Now >> I always thought that bloomers of some type or another came in earlier >> than the 19th century. Am I wrong? >> >> Sylrog > > You are correct that drawers for women existed prior to the 19th > century, > IIRC there is a 16th century Italian pair of embroidered (crotchless > ?) > drawers in Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd (I've got a scan of the > page > with a B&W pic and a description saved somewhere but I'm not sure > which book > it's from). However that doesn't mean that ordinary middle to working > class > English women were wearing them in the mid 17th century. I've heard > some > mention of drawers being a particularly slow fashion to spread into > England > and equally slow to spread into the lower classes. > Elizabeth > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > ---- > Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole > Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra Australia > ewalpole@austar.net.au > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 4 00:09:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8449u1l019627 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 00:09:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8449C4d024711 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Sep 2004 22:09:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i84493TM089266; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 22:09:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from incoming.SIGENETICS.com ([209.172.110.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i84491TM089178 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 22:09:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sbuchler@silicongenetics.com) Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 21:08:54 -0700 Message-ID: <0D3431E0FD777844A4ED9507E4D698D90D2758@incoming.sigenetics.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 711 Thread-Index: AcSSKl4OT99VHhBzReCqfDEjhBiHjwABRbDw From: "Sunny Buchler" To: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i84491TM089178 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 1830s sleeve puffs X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Does anyone know how the sleeve puffs in the 1830s were attached? Just to be clear, a picture of them can be found at: http://www.kci.or.jp/cgi-bin/collection.cgi?lang=e&path=1820/09-009455_a - Were they usually part of the chemise? - Were they hooked/tied/tacked to the chemise or to the corset? - Were they simply tied to the arm -- is that enough to hold them in place? - What were they called in period (tippets? or is that something else?) Thanks! -sunny _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 4 00:31:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i844V8xf019695 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 00:31:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i844UP4d026121 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Sep 2004 22:30:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i844UNTM000309; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 22:30:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail1.plugit.com [66.210.223.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i844UKTM000284 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 22:30:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A34349190106; Fri, 03 Sep 2004 23:23:31 -0500 Received: from MOM [69.241.150.7] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A2ED201029E; Fri, 03 Sep 2004 23:22:05 -0500 Message-ID: <00d001c49237$b528e7f0$0300a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <0D3431E0FD777844A4ED9507E4D698D90D2758@incoming.sigenetics.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1830s sleeve puffs Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2004 00:29:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by ElectroSHIELD (www.plugit.com) for spam. X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i844V8xf019695 Status: RO Sunny, When I worked on an exhibit at the Valentine Museum, we had a set of the puffs. They tied onto the arm. The pair we had were filled with horsehair if I remember correctly. They were very light. They dated form the 1830s period. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Online Reference Library, AND Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumegallery.com/research.htm www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 4 01:32:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i845Wg44020019 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 01:32:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i845Vx4d029523 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Sep 2004 23:31:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i845VrTM030955; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 23:31:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.fuse.net (mail-out1.fuse.net [216.68.8.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i845VoTM030895 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 23:31:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jemarshall@fuse.net) Received: from gx6.fuse.net ([216.196.142.209]) by smtp1.fuse.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.04 201-2131-111-106-20040729) with ESMTP id <20040904053144.ZYYF9752.smtp1.fuse.net@gx6.fuse.net> for ; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 01:31:44 -0400 Received: from netzero.fuse.net ([216.196.142.209]) by gx6.fuse.net (InterMail vG.1.00.00.00 201-2136-104-20040331) with ESMTP id <20040904053111.JEBX4527.gx6.fuse.net@netzero.fuse.net> for ; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 01:31:11 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20040904012106.00b7a100@pop.fuse.net> X-Sender: jemarshall@pop.fuse.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2004 01:22:04 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: "J.E. Marshall" Subject: Re: [h-cost] testing In-Reply-To: <000901c491e7$85487e10$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The dress and the couple look just beautiful. Bjarne, you are a master at this. Jennifer >Hi, just testing if my status on the list works again. >I had set my mail to no mail while i was in Italy. >Xenia sended me pictures from the wedding so now you can se her with the prinse here: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/xenia.htm Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 4 04:14:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i848EbdD025540 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 04:14:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i848Db4d007124 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 4 Sep 2004 02:13:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i848DPTM010392; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 02:13:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web53108.mail.yahoo.com (web53108.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.211]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i848DNTM010327 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 02:13:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from smnco37@yahoo.co.uk) Message-ID: <20040904081317.68723.qmail@web53108.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [82.112.143.56] by web53108.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 04 Sep 2004 09:13:17 BST Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2004 09:13:17 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?julian=20wilson?= To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <4F04532F-FE1D-11D8-9E26-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 19th century underwear X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ladies, May I - as a mere man - contribute something to this thread? At one point in my life - because - after the "Lady Chatterley" case in the UK Courts - there were several publishers who subsequently reprinted a great deal of contemporary Victorian erotica - texts which originally appeared "underground" in the 1870's - written about the 1850's period. Just like many other randy young English men of my own time, I read all those I could lay my hands on as they became available on the British market. Quite apart from the erotic content - as an amateur Historian, I was fascinated by the contemporary minutiae which tended to appear as "asides" in the various texts. For example, a character asks a Cabman to take him to the "In & Out" - a famous London Gentlemens' Club. This was the nickname of the Cavalry Club, where the building was set back from the main thoroughfare separated from the street by a low wall topped with tall ornamental iron railings, and pieced by 2 gateways, with signs one each reading "In & Out" - hence the Cabmen's and Hackney Drivers' nickname. And in connection with your particular thread, I recall from a Victorian text the beginning of one seduction scene, where the aristocratic Lady involved is undressing for her lover.... "she undid the placket of her skirt, and let it drop to the floor, revealing to my delighted eyes the truth of Abigail's boast that she had never in her life worn drawers, believing them vulgar..." Now, I am aware that this is only one contemporary reference - but the Victorian author included it as a detail in verisimilitude for his Victorian readers. The original text for the story seems to have been written in the 1840's - as I recall the Publisher's Notes. Another contemporary Victorian story related a young Upper-Class man's adventures "with servant girls and other women of the Lower Classes" - and again, I recall that none of these girls are mentioned as wearing drawers of any kind. While still on this threade of Victorian female underwear, there were/are repeated mentions of young men serving their upper-class lovers "in place of my maid" - and needing instructions on how to unlace corsets. I am also reminded of various non-erotic gossip writings from the Georgian period and that of William IV - when the Empire Line dresses were in fashion, - many Diaries from that period having survived. Apparently "fast" and daring young Upper-Class women sometimes omitted the opaque linen shift under their light overdresses, - which were often dampened to make them cling more closely to the body beneath, "thereby revealing the perfection of their forms, un-encumbered by underwear, to all prospective young suitors"; - and occasioned much scandalous gossip from older hostesses thereby. Lady Caroline Lamb [Lord Byron's mistress] is mentioned as having done so at one High Society Ball - well reported in surviving personal gossip writings of that year. Just thought these items might add to this discussion about pre-19th C. & Victorian female underwear. In Service, Julian, in "olde" jersey Sylvia Rognstad wrote: It just occurred to me that they were worn though prior to the 1850s-60s crinolines though in the form of pantaloons in the early 1800s, werent they? >From my reading of surviving and reprinted contemporary writings, it would seem that only the upper-class ladies could afford to spend money on bloomers/drawers - call them what you will. Lower-class women - even "well-placed" servant girls - just didn't have the disposable income to do so. They seem to have had very few clothes - a set of outer "working clothes", and - if they were fortunate, a set of outerwear for "best". On Sep 2, 2004, at 10:26 PM, Elizabeth Walpole wrote: SNIP but I did see the rerun Oprah ran today about her short adventure there. She and her friend Gail had to remove all their underclothing when donning their costumes because they were told that panties were not worn until the 1800s. >> Now I always thought that bloomers of some type or another came in earlier than the 19th century. Am I wrong? SNIP You are correct that drawers for women existed prior to the 19th century, SNIP I've heard some mention of drawers being a particularly slow fashion to spread into England and equally slow to spread into the lower classes. > Elizabeth --------------------------------- ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 4 07:27:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i84BRfkT020146 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 07:27:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i84BQp4d014676 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 4 Sep 2004 05:26:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i84BQfTM006633; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 05:26:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i84BQcTM006577 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 05:26:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.4.) id 6.1de.293be0ef (17526) for ; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 07:26:28 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <1de.293be0ef.2e6b0064@aol.com> Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2004 07:26:28 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1830s sleeve puffs To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5031 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/4/2004 12:10:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, sbuchler@silicongenetics.com writes: What were they called in period (tippets? or is that something else?) Yes a tippet is something else--a long scarf or boa-type thing that goes around the neck and hangs down in front. I think the puffs just tied on, too. The ones I've seen were filled with feathers. There is a woman wearing all the 1820s-30s period underwear on p. 68 of "Fabric of Society," by Jane Tozer and Sarah Levitt. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 4 08:07:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i84C7VCo020376 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 08:07:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i84C6q4d016556 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 4 Sep 2004 06:06:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i84C6oTM027223; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 06:06:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i84C6kTM027134 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 06:06:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-8.13) id AFCE35DE00A0; Sat, 04 Sep 2004 08:06:38 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.107 ([209.131.81.107] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 4 Sep 04 12:06:34 -0000 Message-ID: <002701c49278$95ff8be0$6b5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <0D3431E0FD777844A4ED9507E4D698D90D2758@incoming.sigenetics.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1830s sleeve puffs Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2004 08:13:27 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The pair I have from this period have three short ties spaced so as to fasten on the top of the armseye of the dress. I have seen another pair that has both tie strings on the pad and these were mated to three tiny loops on the dress. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sunny Buchler" To: Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2004 12:08 AM Subject: [h-cost] 1830s sleeve puffs > Does anyone know how the sleeve puffs in the 1830s were attached? Just to be clear, a picture of them can be found at: http://www.kci.or.jp/cgi-bin/collection.cgi?lang=e&path=1820/09-009455_a > > - Were they usually part of the chemise? > - Were they hooked/tied/tacked to the chemise or to the corset? > - Were they simply tied to the arm -- is that enough to hold them in place? > - What were they called in period (tippets? or is that something else?) > > Thanks! > -sunny > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 4 11:06:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i84F64uj021197 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 11:06:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i84F0I4d024761 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 4 Sep 2004 09:00:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i84F09dI015511; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 09:00:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.reddawn.net (rrcs-west-67-52-227-118.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i84F03dI015377 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 09:00:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by mail.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94882425D5 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 10:27:10 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4139D885.9020009@reddawn.net> Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2004 10:00:21 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 19th century underwear References: <20040904081317.68723.qmail@web53108.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040904081317.68723.qmail@web53108.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO julian wilson wrote: > And in connection with your particular thread, I recall from a Victorian text the beginning of one seduction scene, where the aristocratic Lady involved is undressing for her lover.... "she undid the placket of her skirt, and let it drop to the floor, revealing to my delighted eyes the truth of Abigail's boast that she had never in her life worn drawers, believing them vulgar..." Then again, it is supposed to be titillating. A lot of modern erotic fiction contains similar passages with descriptions of the young lady's underwear, or lack thereof.... but it doesn't represent what your average American Girl wears on a daily basis. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 4 11:59:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i84FxvYD021382 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 11:59:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i84FxD4d027691 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 4 Sep 2004 09:59:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i84FxBdI046940; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 09:59:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i84Fx8dI046797 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 09:59:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32ff5.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.245]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 4802426281C for ; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 17:58:53 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <003501c49298$21fed690$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2004 17:59:17 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 1830 sleave puffs X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have The Gallery of English Costume picture book number three Womens Costumes 1800-1835. Plate 15 shows a lady in full underwear. Quoting: Underwear 1825 -35, Petticoat, white lawn, piped hem and embroidered flounce. Three-flounce bustle of heavy cotton, dated 1833, white cotton pocket; cotton sleeve puffs, down - filled; white cotton cap. The piped hem supports the widening skirts; the bustle emphasises their growing fullnes towards the back; sleave puffs support the swelling sleeves. The pocket still has the 18th century shape; small bags were carried when the skirt was narrow and clinging. So they are simply called sleeve puffs................ Oh my these small catalogs i have from my first visit to London when i was studying on the art school so many years ago............... Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 4 12:02:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i84G2rCu021397 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 12:02:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i84G2E4d027845 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 4 Sep 2004 10:02:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i84G2DdI048572; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 10:02:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i84G29dI048547 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 10:02:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Received: from 209-165-44-040.jps.net ([209.165.44.40] helo=KALC) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1C3czP-0006qZ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 04 Sep 2004 09:02:08 -0700 From: "lisa-list" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] 19th century underwear Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2004 09:02:03 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <4139D885.9020009@reddawn.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dawn wrote: julian wilson wrote: > And in connection with your particular thread, I recall from a Victorian text the beginning of one seduction scene, where the aristocratic Lady involved is undressing for her lover.... "she undid the placket of her skirt, and let it drop to the floor, revealing to my delighted eyes the truth of Abigail's boast that she had never in her life worn drawers, believing them vulgar..." Then again, it is supposed to be titillating. A lot of modern erotic fiction contains similar passages with descriptions of the young lady's underwear, or lack thereof.... but it doesn't represent what your average American Girl wears on a daily basis. Dawn Lisa writes: I attended an interesting lecture by an anthropologist who worked/works at Sutters Fort here in Sacramento. She had a theory that drawers did not become standard wearing attire until indoor toilets were the norm. I haven't looked into this at all, but her research was that if a woman was not wearing drawers she could urinate outside standing up or squating over a trench without having to lift her skirt up and could remain modest during the process. Lifting up skirts to drop ones drawers left one exposed, possibly a vulgar sight? Has anyone else come across this theory or looked into women urinating over trenches? And what about toilet paper? If a woman did urinate over a trench, did she then have to lift her skirts to use the same? This lecture covered the Gold Rush period in California a time period I know very little about. Not quite as titillating an approch as the erotic literature, but certainly something I'd consider when chosing drawers or not. Lisa Sinervo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 4 12:15:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i84GFt2M021451 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 12:15:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i84GFF4d028548 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 4 Sep 2004 10:15:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i84GFCdI055548; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 10:15:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i84GF9dJ055529 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 10:15:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-130.sonic.net [209.148.112.130]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i84GF7qv014715 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 09:15:08 -0700 Message-ID: <4139EA2D.506@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2004 09:15:41 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 19th century underwear References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hmmm, well . . . the female anatomy is not well designed for urinating standing up. Males have a built-in funnel for directing the flow. Females don't. Thus, females face the problem of spashing the insides of their thighs, their clothes, their shoes, etc. This is even if the wind is not blowing. Backpacking stores actually sell little devices called urinary directors to aid female campers who don't want to squat either in the woods or over a dirty portable toilet. I've long considered much of Victorian modesty and morals as the difference between what everyone did and knew everyone else did, and what people (at least the genteel classes) were willing to talk about. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com >I haven't looked into this at all, but her research was that if a >woman was not wearing drawers she could urinate outside standing up or >squating over a trench without having to lift her skirt up and could remain >modest during the process. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 4 12:38:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i84GcqnA021550 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 12:38:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i84Gc64d029862 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 4 Sep 2004 10:38:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i84Gc3dI067784; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 10:38:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i84GbxdJ067762 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 10:37:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i84GwTRA006677 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 12:58:32 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040904093216.00c22700@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2004 09:37:51 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: Re: [h-cost] 19th century underwear In-Reply-To: <4139EA2D.506@lavoltapress.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And don't forget about periods. I don't imagine women from earlier ages would enjoying blood dripping down their legs every month any more than modern women would. They must have worn *something* to collect the monthly mess! I don't care what you might call it; it must have existed in some form or another. Katie, who has a urinary problem and if she doesn't wear panties, always ends up with a few drops of urine on her thighs after urinating, no matter how well she drys herself >Hmmm, well . . . the female anatomy is not well designed for urinating >standing up. Males have a built-in funnel for directing the flow. >Females don't. Thus, females face the problem of spashing the insides of >their thighs, their clothes, their shoes, etc. This is even if the wind >is not blowing. Backpacking stores actually sell little devices called >urinary directors to aid female campers who don't want to squat either in >the woods or over a dirty portable toilet. >Fran _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 4 12:45:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i84GjlBg021577 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 12:45:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i84Gj44d000341 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 4 Sep 2004 10:45:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i84Gj3dI071592; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 10:45:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cmlapp16.siteprotect.com (cmlapp16.siteprotect.com [64.41.126.229]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i84Gj2dI071548 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 10:45:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cschmitt@genteelarts.com) Received: from genteelarts (oh-69-68-46-233.dyn.sprint-hsd.net [69.68.46.233]) by cmlapp16.siteprotect.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE6C7318AB for ; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 11:44:59 -0500 (CDT) From: "Carolann Schmitt" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] 19th century underwear Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2004 12:44:38 -0400 Organization: Genteel Arts Message-ID: <000601c4929e$7d2c9ba0$0300a8c0@genteelarts> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i84Gj2dI071548 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Interesting theory, except that women's drawers from the mid-19th century are usually open (no crotch seam), so there's no need to drop them. I've been researching this topic for many years. It appears that drawers were not a common women's undergarment until the later decades of the 19th century. My focus is 1840-1870. At the beginning of this period there are relatively few references for them and quite a few references that indicate they were not a commonly-worn undergarment. This gradually changes as the decades progress, and by the end of this particular era there many more references indicating their gradual acceptance by a larger portion of the adult female population. A good indication for their commonality is the suggested lists of clothing recommended for travelers, the newly-married, establishing a household, etc. Other undergarments (chemises, petticoats, nightgowns, etc.) appear on all of them, but drawers usually don't appear with any regularity until the mid-late 1860s. Carolann Schmitt cschmitt@genteelarts.com www.genteelarts.com >Lisa writes: I attended an interesting lecture by an anthropologist who >worked/works at Sutters Fort here in Sacramento. She had a theory that >drawers did not become standard wearing attire until indoor toilets were >the norm. I haven't looked into this at all, but her research was that if >a woman was not wearing drawers she could urinate outside standing up or >squating over a trench without having to lift her skirt up and could remain >modest during the process. Lifting up skirts to drop ones drawers left one >exposed, possibly a vulgar sight? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 4 13:15:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i84HFIFX021685 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 13:15:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i84HEM4d002254 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 4 Sep 2004 11:14:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i84HEIdI087608; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 11:14:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i84HEFdJ087584 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 11:14:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i84HCZTA008160 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 13:12:35 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 04 Sep 2004 13:12:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4139F7E5.9010607@thibault.org> Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2004 13:14:13 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 19th century underwear References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO lisa-list wrote: > Lifting up skirts to drop ones drawers left one > exposed, possibly a vulgar sight? Has anyone else come across this theory > or looked into women urinating over trenches? And what about toilet paper? > If a woman did urinate over a trench, did she then have to lift her skirts > to use the same? First, you'd need to figure out if TP was used at all; it might not have been. Assumptions and all that. As for splashes, if squatting, it's not necessarily a problem. Even standing up, a woman can do a fair imitation of what men do, with a little practice. I'm fairly sure the menstrual discussion has happened on this list before, so there's probably some good research mentioned in the archives for those who are curious. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent For nonsqueamish gourmets: "At peace with my role in the food chain" BBQ Apron -- http://www.cafepress.com/virtueventures _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 4 14:21:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i84ILsFb021930 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 14:21:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i84ILE4d006030 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 4 Sep 2004 12:21:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i84IL5vj022462; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 12:21:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i84IKxvj022400 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 12:21:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32ff5.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.245]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id BC3E847FE49 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 20:20:55 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000701c492ac$00ea93e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2004 20:21:31 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] underwear X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Just want to tell that Lisselotte, living in 17th century france at the french court (married to the kings brother) mentions that she wore trousers in the wintertime for warmth. They were furred. And the dutch maids when cleaning windows in 18th century always wore trousers. But this was out of nescesity. And there are other refferenses i have from 18th century with trousers, but only few. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 4 21:43:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i851h2PX023264 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 21:43:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i851gK4d028389 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 4 Sep 2004 19:42:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i851gAvj047484; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 19:42:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp-08.primus.ca (mail.tor.primus.ca [216.254.136.21]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i851g8vk047435 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 19:42:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanna.hobbins@mail.mcgill.ca) Received: from dsl-207-112-61-150.tor.primus.ca ([207.112.61.150] helo=anastasius) by smtp-08.primus.ca with smtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1C3m70-0003iT-0A for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 05 Sep 2004 01:46:34 +0000 Message-ID: <002001c492e9$8845d650$6801a8c0@anastasius> From: "Joanna Hobbins" To: "Historical Costume" References: <005301c49227$9af5db00$6a8e059a@bc.hsia.telus.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Montreal Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2004 21:41:56 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Brin, Montreal has a fabric district where there are over 30 fabric stores along three block stretch. This is on Saint-Hubert street between Jean-Talon and Villeray. You can email me off-list about what types of fabric and price range you're interested in and I can give you some suggestions. The shops range in price and quality from unknown fabrics at 50 cents a meter to silks and wools upwars of 200$/meter. cheers, Joanna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edith Reardon" Okay, I have finally booked our airfare and need a list of fabric shops to shop at in Montreal. Where, hours?? any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Brin Kendall _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 5 09:52:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i85DqCNN005708 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 09:52:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i85Dor4d003967 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Sep 2004 07:50:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i85Dohvj007295; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 07:50:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell3.shore.net (shell3.shore.net [207.244.124.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i85Dofvk007256 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 07:50:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from vintage@primushost.com) Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for h-costume@indra.com id 1C3xRx-0000RB-00; Sun, 05 Sep 2004 09:52:57 -0400 Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2004 09:52:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Katy Bishop To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1830s sleeve puffs In-Reply-To: <00d001c49237$b528e7f0$0300a8c0@MOM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The Museum of Fine Arts in Boston, in the Textile Department, (there are days I miss working there) has a pair of sleeve puffs that are made of lightweight china silk and are filled with down. I don't recall any fasteners, maybe they pinned in. I need to make some sleeve puffs for my 1830's gowns. Katy On Sat, 4 Sep 2004, Penny Ladnier wrote: >Sunny, > >When I worked on an exhibit at the Valentine Museum, we had a set of the puffs. They tied onto the arm. The pair we had were filled with horsehair if I remember correctly. They were very light. They dated form the 1830s period. > >Penny E. Ladnier >Owner, The Costume Gallery & Online Reference Library, AND Costume Classroom >www.costumegallery.com >www.costumegallery.com/research.htm >www.costumeclassroom.com >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 5 11:08:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i85F8fHq005989 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 11:08:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i85F7p4d008184 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Sep 2004 09:07:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i85F7ivj045802; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 09:07:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i85F7gvj045746 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 09:07:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lauren.walker@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (h0006255ec5ea.ne.client2.attbi.com[66.31.43.36]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <20040905150736014002ffsse>; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 15:07:36 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2004 11:06:31 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] 19th century underwear From: Lauren Walker To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040904093216.00c22700@mail.katiesorchids.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > From: Katie Pleasance > > Katie, who has a urinary problem and if she doesn't wear panties, always > ends up with a few drops of urine on her thighs after urinating, no matter > how well she drys herself Not meaning to draw too much attention to the generous admission of a difficulty, but now that my best friend is pregnant and discovering that the propaganda about how wonderful a state ispregnancy isn't all true, I have been thinking about all the relatively young and otherwise healthy and fit women I've met in the present who ended up with some form of urinary incontinence after childbirth, either short-term or long term. In eras without corrective surgery for this, a generally higher number of pregnancies and births per woman, and with what may well have been (I don't want to get into the whole history of midwifery vs. organized medicine, for that WOULD be off-topic) more difficult childbirths, there would have to have been plenty of women with similar or worse incontinence. For which traditional 19th-century split drawers would not have been an answer. I'm under the impression that women wore belted cloths, like the old "sanitary belt" with napkin, but done in rag fabric, for menstrual tidiness (I know there's that guy at the museum who thinks they just dripped, but the artifacts don't support it, no stained shifts) and I must guess that a simlar arrangement must have been used for the incontinent. But I'm quite sure you wouldn't talk about it, any more than we are really comfortable talking about adult diapers today. However, in times when women may have been pregnant or nursing more often than they were menstruating, adult diapers for urine may have been more common than for menstruation. And I've never seen anyone's research on that topic at all. But come to think of it, do we have artifact evidence of baby's diapers? Just thinking too much. Lauren _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 5 11:30:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i85FUXux006075 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 11:30:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i85FTt4d009286 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Sep 2004 09:29:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i85FTqvj056868; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 09:29:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i85FTpvj056850 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 09:29:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16839 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 10:36:37 -0500 Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2004 10:36:35 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 19th century underwear In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sun, 5 Sep 2004, Lauren Walker wrote: > I'm under the impression that women wore belted cloths, like the old > "sanitary belt" with napkin, but done in rag fabric, for menstrual > tidiness (I know there's that guy at the museum who thinks they just > dripped, but the artifacts don't support it, no stained shifts) and I > must guess that a simlar arrangement must have been used for the > incontinent. But I'm quite sure you wouldn't talk about it, any more > than we are really comfortable talking about adult diapers today. > However, in times when women may have been pregnant or nursing more > often than they were menstruating, adult diapers for urine may have > been more common than for menstruation. And I've never seen anyone's > research on that topic at all. But come to think of it, do we have > artifact evidence of baby's diapers? Much much earlier than 19th c., there's one such artifact that I know of: One of the female bodies at Herjolfsnes, Greenland, had a sealskin "belt" arrangement that apparently held a linen (rag?) pad. The information is tucked into the medical section of the 1924 archaeological report, not with the clothing, so is often over looked by people who see and read only the clothing section written by Norlund. The doctor writing the medical analysis concluded from the deformities in the woman's bones that she might have been incontinent, and deduced that the pad was thus an incontinence pad. Heather Rose Jones has pointed out on this list (and I agree) that it could as easily have been a menstrual pad, a possibility not mentioned at all by the doctor. Either way, though, it shows that at least one medieval woman had a means for catching fluids. I find it particularly interesting that the people preparing her body for burial did not remove the pad! Anyway, I would think that the place to look for information on prevalence of (and solutions for) incontinence would be in the 19th c. medical literature. I wonder also whether the advertisements for patent medicines and medical devices might have had a way of referring to this. There were many devices for other highly personal body problems; surely incontinence would not have been overlooked. Hmm, maybe the U.S. Patent Office medical section. Every patented device would have had an explanation submitted describing its purpose and use, and why it is new and different compared to what is already in existence. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 5 11:44:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i85Fiiww006133 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 11:44:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i85Fco5x009641 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Sep 2004 09:44:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i85FPlvj054880; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 09:25:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i85FPjvk054854 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 09:25:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i85FO2TA023906 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 11:24:02 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 05 Sep 2004 11:24:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <413B2FF7.9040704@thibault.org> Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2004 11:25:43 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 19th century underwear References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lauren Walker wrote: > there would have to > have been plenty of women with similar or worse incontinence. More manual labor might have kept the pelvic floor muscles much more toned back then. Even today, doing kegel exercises resolve a significant number of these cases, although, yes, surgery is sometimes needed. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Register to vote! Don't let that other guy win! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 5 12:50:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i85GoLXv006362 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 12:50:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i85GnM4d013361 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Sep 2004 10:49:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i85GnIvj096923; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 10:49:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.67]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i85GnGvj096843 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 10:49:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from katie_lewis@lycos.com) Received: from wfilter.us4.outblaze.com (wfilter.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.180]) by webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix) with QMQP id 8BDD41801EA9 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 16:49:11 +0000 (GMT) X-OB-Received: from unknown (208.36.123.31) by wfilter.us4.outblaze.com; 5 Sep 2004 16:49:11 -0000 Received: by ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 71A04E5BC7; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 16:49:11 +0000 (GMT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Received: from [129.219.100.234] by ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com with http for katie_lewis@lycos.com; Sun, 05 Sep 2004 11:49:11 -0500 From: "kathleen lewis" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2004 11:49:11 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] 19th century underwear X-Originating-Ip: 129.219.100.234 X-Originating-Server: ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com Message-Id: <20040905164911.71A04E5BC7@ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: Katie Pleasance Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2004 09:37:51 -0700 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 19th century underwear > And don't forget about periods. I don't imagine women from earlier ages > would enjoying blood dripping down their legs every month any more than > modern women would. They must have worn *something* to collect the monthly > mess! This is *purely* oral history, so it may not be quite correct, especially since the initial source was male (my Great-Grandfather),although living in a one room cabin would make it difficult to remain totally ignorant of these things. According to my Grandma, he said that when he was a boy (1890's *very* rural Kentucky) that women didn't wear drawers because the Bible forbade women wearing pants. When they were mentruating, they used rags held in place by a belt-like affair. So I wouldn't dismiss out of hand the possibility that women in at least some times and places used specially built devices for their periods, and wore no underpants the rest of the time. -Katie Xander: You up for a little reconnaissance? Buffy: You mean where we all sculpt and paint and stuff? Xander: No, that was the Renaissance. -- _______________________________________________ Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 5 13:16:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i85HG79D006436 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 13:16:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i85HFU4d015165 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Sep 2004 11:15:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i85HFMvj010367; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 11:15:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i85HFKvj010335 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 11:15:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA17545 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 12:22:06 -0500 Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2004 12:22:05 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 19th century underwear In-Reply-To: <20040905164911.71A04E5BC7@ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sun, 5 Sep 2004, kathleen lewis wrote: > ... he said that when he was a boy (1890's *very* rural Kentucky) that > women didn't wear drawers because the Bible forbade women wearing > pants. When they were mentruating, they used rags held in place by a > belt-like affair. So I wouldn't dismiss out of hand the possibility > that women in at least some times and places used specially built > devices for their periods, and wore no underpants the rest of the > time. The last time this topic was discussed here, someone made an important point that bears repeating: Until quite recently (within my memory), menstrual protection and underwear were two different, unrelated things. When I started my period in the mid-1970s, we were still using belts to hold up our pads. We wore panties, too, but that didn't have anything to do with the menstrual issue. For that matter, it was also common not to wear panties when wearing pantyhose. You could still wear a belt and pad with pantyhose, but you didn't need separate panties. Victorian drawers (and drawers of other historic eras), being loose and sometimes crotchless too, would have done nothing to contain menstrual fluids (or urine, in the case of incontinence). So menstrual protection wouldn't depend on the use or non-use of drawers, and the use of drawers wouldn't be a response to the need for monthly protection. (If it were, they'd be shaped a lot differently!) So the answer to the "did they wear drawers" question really doesn't have anything to do with the "how did they handle menstrual bleeding" question. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 5 18:34:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i85MYpn6007610 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 18:34:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i85MY94d002035 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Sep 2004 16:34:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i85MXxvj071123; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 16:33:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i85MXvvj071060 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 16:33:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lauren.walker@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (h0006255ec5ea.ne.client2.attbi.com[66.31.43.36]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <2004090522335101300atcbae>; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 22:33:51 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2004 18:32:45 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] 19th century underwear From: Lauren Walker To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -- > From: Robin Netherton > > Much much earlier than 19th c., there's one such artifact that I know of: > One of the female bodies at Herjolfsnes, Greenland, had a sealskin "belt" > arrangement that apparently held a linen (rag?) pad. The information is > tucked into the medical section of the 1924 archaeological report, not > with the clothing, so is often over looked by people who see and read only > the clothing section written by Norlund. > Anyway, I would think that the place to look for information on prevalence > of (and solutions for) incontinence would be in the 19th c. medical > literature. I wonder also whether the advertisements for patent medicines > and medical devices might have had a way of referring to this. Thanks for the great info from Herjolfsnes! That is VERY cool. Especially as I, too, remember being issued a belt by my mom in the 1970s. How charming to think of it as relatively unchanged since 1300! Meanwhile, the one patent device I've encountered in 19th century medical manuals that relates to incontinence is the pessary. (A donut-shaped device of rubber worn about as you'd wear a diaphragm today; I think prior to the rubber ones they may have existed in wood.) The idea is if your incontinence is from uterine prolapse, the pessary may help stand the uterus into a better position, not flopped over on the bladder. But they may also have worked to help put a little pressure on the urethra, to help keep it closed. In the present, women with slight incontinence are sometimes advised to wear a tampon or a diaphragm to put the same kind of slight pressure on the urethra. But yes, indeed, the pad issue is different from the underpants issue. I am, however, curious about both. There's a writer of medieval murder mysteries who at one point issues her female character a pair of braies (and, in fact, an excruciatingly hip little discussion of them with her new husband) for holding her menstrual clouts, and for some reason this bothered the heck out of me, because braies wouldn't really hold a clout all that well. I am on the whole much inclined to believe in belts and cloths, and to accept their irrelevance to the pantaloon debate. Thank you all! Lauren _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 5 18:37:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i85MbRBu007625 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 18:37:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i85Mak4d002116 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Sep 2004 16:36:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i85Majvj072470; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 16:36:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i85Magvj072402 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 16:36:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lauren.walker@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (h0006255ec5ea.ne.client2.attbi.com[66.31.43.36]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <20040905223636014002bbq1e>; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 22:36:36 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2004 18:35:30 -0400 From: Lauren Walker To: h-costume Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] PS on underwear X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO PS: In fact, I would think that menstruation and incontinence might to some extent militate AGAINST women's underpants. Underpants would be at too much risk of getting dirty and tangling with the belt-and-pad arrangements. As, I guarantee you, they did in the 1970s! -- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 5 19:15:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i85NFEtq007697 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 19:15:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i85NEd4d004019 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Sep 2004 17:14:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i85NEavj091158; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 17:14:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i85NEYvj091127 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 17:14:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA19616 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 18:21:21 -0500 Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2004 18:21:20 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Address, Costume journal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Does anyone have a current issue of Costume (journal of the UK costume society) handy? I need an address for the editor, Ann Saunders. My last issue handy is a few years old, so I want to be sure I have one that's current, and the website has only the membership address. Off-list reply is fine. Thanks. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 5 19:45:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i85Nju9w007771 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 19:45:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i85NiI4d005609 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Sep 2004 17:44:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i85NiFvj006012; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 17:44:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i85NiCvj005967 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 17:44:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA19844 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 18:51:00 -0500 Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2004 18:50:59 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Never mind (Costume Society) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I had the address after all. Sorry... --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 5 21:00:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i86100pL007945 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 21:00:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i860xH4d010168 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Sep 2004 18:59:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i860w3vj042099; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 18:58:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i860vuvj041999 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 18:57:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Theflamingneedle@aol.com) Received: from Theflamingneedle@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.4.) id 6.ae.61397e28 (3948) for ; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 20:57:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Theflamingneedle@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2004 20:57:44 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] underwear To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5032 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/4/04 1:21:45 PM Central Daylight Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: Just want to tell that Lisselotte, living in 17th century france at the french court (married to the kings brother) mentions that she wore trousers in the wintertime for warmth. I remember reading in Margaret George's biography of Mary QOS, that Mary and her ladies often wore men's breeches for riding and masquing. I've always wanted to ask the author if she had a solid historical reference for that, or if it was artistic license. **Tiff** eBay Selling ID: Reflections*of*Worth Historical Reproductions and Costumes "Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance." -Will Durant _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 5 21:29:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i861TKaI008073 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 21:29:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i861Sg4d012324 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Sep 2004 19:28:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i861Sevj057980; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 19:28:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i861Scvj057964 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 19:28:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from heather.jones@earthlink.net) Received: from h-67-101-147-93.snfccasy.dynamic.covad.net ([67.101.147.93] helo=[10.0.1.2]) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1C48JB-00072H-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 05 Sep 2004 18:28:38 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2004 18:25:55 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] 19th century underwear Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 6:32 PM -0400 9/5/04, Lauren Walker wrote: >But yes, indeed, the pad issue is different from the underpants issue. I am, >however, curious about both. There's a writer of medieval murder mysteries >who at one point issues her female character a pair of braies (and, in fact, >an excruciatingly hip little discussion of them with her new husband) for >holding her menstrual clouts, and for some reason this bothered the heck out >of me, because braies wouldn't really hold a clout all that well. I am on >the whole much inclined to believe in belts and cloths, and to accept their >irrelevance to the pantaloon debate. Thank you all! If you're thinking of the Sharan Newman novel, the author has said in as many words, "I made that up because it seemed logical to me." (Not that we'd any of us be using historic novels as research sources for historic costume, of course!) Heather -- **** Heather Rose Jones heather.jones@earthlink.net **** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 5 23:07:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8637f9D008320 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 23:07:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8636e4d017701 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Sep 2004 21:06:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8636Wvj007036; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 21:06:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from indirectobject.com (066-241-084-045.bus.ashlandfiber.net [66.241.84.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8636Svj006988 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 21:06:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rreed@indirectobject.com) Message-Id: <200409060306.i8636Svj006988@net.indra.com> Received: from synergy ([192.168.1.1]) by indirectobject.com (WWW [192.168.1.200]) (MDaemon.PRO.v6.8.5.R) with ESMTP id 50-md50000000028.tmp for ; Sun, 05 Sep 2004 20:02:20 -0700 From: To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] underwear Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2004 20:05:39 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AcSTrIsQp5kq/8JAS1qJDY0XMgfH8gAEWOzA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Processed: WWW, Sun, 05 Sep 2004 20:02:20 -0700 (not processed: message from valid local sender) X-MDRemoteIP: 192.168.1.1 X-Return-Path: rreed@indirectobject.com X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I love Margaret George's books; they are very rich with details. I had her mailing address somewhere around here as I have written her before. She does a lot of research for her writing, though I'm sure it's laced with artistic license as any other fiction author would do. If I can't find her address this week, you could try writing St. Martin's Press, her publisher, and they'll forward your request. Becky -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Theflamingneedle@aol.com Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 5:58 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] underwear In a message dated 9/4/04 1:21:45 PM Central Daylight Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: Just want to tell that Lisselotte, living in 17th century france at the french court (married to the kings brother) mentions that she wore trousers in the wintertime for warmth. I remember reading in Margaret George's biography of Mary QOS, that Mary and her ladies often wore men's breeches for riding and masquing. I've always wanted to ask the author if she had a solid historical reference for that, or if it was artistic license. **Tiff** eBay Selling ID: Reflections*of*Worth Historical Reproductions and Costumes "Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance." -Will Durant _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 6 00:17:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i864H5NS008521 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 00:17:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i864GI4d021740 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Sep 2004 22:16:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i864GEvj041326; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 22:16:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i864GAvj041279 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 22:16:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA21324 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 23:22:58 -0500 Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2004 23:22:58 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Costume/textile organizations: Did I miss any? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, folks. Many of you may recall that I'm editing a new academic journal, Medieval Clothing & Textiles. The first volume is in production now, and I'm responding to some questions from the publisher's marketing department. One of the things the publisher asked for is a list of the various organizations that should receive announcements for publication in their newsletters (and, in some cases, review copies for their journals). I've put together a sizable list -- there are a surprising lot of dress and textile organizations out there! -- but of course there's a good chance I've missed someone. So, I'd like to run it past you folks to see if you can spot the gaps. Please note that I am looking for academic or scholarly organizations that have a significant interest in costume and textile topics and/or medieval material culture. I am not looking for individual academic programs, universities, or experts -- I'm looking for the professional organizations those people would belong to. I'm particularly interested in European organizations and journals, as I know only the UK-based ones. Also, please note that this list does *not* include re-enactment organizations; see my next message for that. Here's what I've got: UK/Europe: Costume Society of Great Britain (journal: Costume) Medieval Dress and Textiles Society (MEDATS) North European Symposium for Archaeological Textiles (NESAT) Pasold Research Fund (journal: Textile History) Textile Society (journal: Text) Archaeological Textiles Newsletter Dyes in History and Archaeology Monumental Brass Society US/Canada: DISTAFF Costume Society of America Costume Society of Ontario Textile Society of America Group for Costume and Textile Staff in Museums AVISTA International Costume Guild Medieval Textile Study Group of the Complex Weavers' Guild U.S. Institute of Theater Technology So, what did I miss? One particular request: Is there an organization or study group that serves students/scholars working in historical embroidery? I think I've got the right one for medieval weaving techniques, but I don't know if there are equivalents in other fiber arts. We have a strong article on early medieval embroidery in this volume, so I really want to contact people in that field. Next question: Can anyone name major conferences that would reach our target audience, *other than* Kalamazoo, Leeds, MLA, and the meetings of the groups named above? Would Convergence be a good place to make this journal available? (If so, where can I get information on it?) Any others? Thanks all! --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 6 00:38:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i864cJOZ008564 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 00:38:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i864bg4d022869 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Sep 2004 22:37:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i864bevj051823; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 22:37:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i864bavj051768 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 22:37:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA21476 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 23:44:24 -0500 Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2004 23:44:24 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Medieval re-enactment organizations X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As I just described in my previous message, I'm putting together some marketing information to assist the publisher of the new journal, Medieval Clothing & Textiles, of which I'm an editor. One of the things I'm compiling is a list of re-enactment groups that cover this period that should receive notices of the availability of the journal. Yes, there's probably a web page somewhere that lists a bunch of groups, but what I'd really like is personal recommendations to help me separate out the type of group we should send flyers to. I have to get this list done posthaste, so I'm not going to spend time researching every possible group myself; if it's too obscure to be known to people on this list, it's probably not large enough to need a flyer. The point here is simply to make sure that anyone who might want to buy the journal will hear about it. (Yes, I'll be sending out appropriate notices to the usual e-mail lists, for forwarding on. That's not what I'm talking about here.) So I'm really looking for groups large enough to have their own newsletters or communications who would want to then spread the word to their members. We'll trust that the smaller local companies will hear about the journal through other avenues. Obviously the SCA is on my list. Beyond that, in the U.S., I can think of: La Belle Compagnie Company of St. George (maybe?) Any other major medieval re-enactment or living history groups out there that would fit the description above? I'll need contact info, too, so I can tell the publisher where to send the flyer. And does anyone have contact info for St. George? Meanwhile, my UK co-editor has sent me a list she's got of UK re-enactment groups, but it's focused on the earlier Middle Ages, cutting off about 1300, so I need the names of major groups that cover 14th, 15th, and 16th centuries. So, additions are welcome (with contact info, please!). Also, if you know of any reason I shouldn't include any of these (e.g. if they've dissolved, changed name, etc.), please let me know! Here's what she sent: Da Engliscan Gesidas The Vikings The Dark Age Society Angelcynn (I need a current contact address!) Anmod Dracan Brittania Combrogi Colchester Historical Enactment Society Regia Anglorum The Vikings of Middle England Conquest Escalfeld Medieval Society The White Company Theod Wuffingas Finally: What about groups outside the US and UK -- elsewhere in Europe, or in Australia? If they're of the type I describe above, please send me the name and contact info. Many many many thanks to all. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 6 00:48:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i864mJ0f008577 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 00:48:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i864lb4d023486 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Sep 2004 22:47:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i864lZvj056531; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 22:47:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i864lXvj056514 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 22:47:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F2D3ABD0 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 21:47:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040905214658.00b14af8@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2004 21:47:32 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Straight trim, curved places In-Reply-To: <129.4a7d2261.2e688c21@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I wanted to thank all of you who responded to my request. Looks like a bit of pinning and steaming ahead for me. Thanks! Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 6 02:09:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8669r9o012063 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 02:09:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i866974d027775 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Sep 2004 00:09:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8668vvj095130; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 00:08:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.67]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8668tvj095069 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 00:08:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from katie_lewis@lycos.com) Received: from wfilter.us4.outblaze.com (wfilter.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.180]) by webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix) with QMQP id D31EB1800BA9 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 06:08:48 +0000 (GMT) X-OB-Received: from unknown (208.36.123.30) by wfilter.us4.outblaze.com; 6 Sep 2004 06:08:47 -0000 Received: by ws7-1.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 7C92286AE9; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 06:08:44 +0000 (GMT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Received: from [129.219.100.149] by ws7-1.us4.outblaze.com with http for katie_lewis@lycos.com; Mon, 06 Sep 2004 01:08:44 -0500 From: "kathleen lewis" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 01:08:44 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] 19th century underwear X-Originating-Ip: 129.219.100.149 X-Originating-Server: ws7-1.us4.outblaze.com Message-Id: <20040906060844.7C92286AE9@ws7-1.us4.outblaze.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=8 Fuz1=8 Fuz2=8 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: Robin Netherton Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2004 12:22:05 -0500 (CDT) To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 19th century underwear > The last time this topic was discussed here, someone made an important > point that bears repeating: Until quite recently (within my memory), > menstrual protection and underwear were two different, unrelated things. Thank you! This was the point that I was trying to make, but I haven't researched the issue enough to feel comfortable making the statement so plainly. -Katie Xander: You up for a little reconnaissance? Buffy: You mean where we all sculpt and paint and stuff? Xander: No, that was the Renaissance. -- _______________________________________________ Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 6 06:08:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i86A8Amn008504 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 06:08:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86A764d008487 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Sep 2004 04:07:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86A6uvj007282; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 04:06:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86A6pvj007043 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 04:06:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.149.210]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i86A6a1Q024634 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 20:06:37 +1000 Message-ID: <004901c493f9$1a590d40$d295d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040904093216.00c22700@mail.katiesorchids.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 19th century underwear Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 20:05:53 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katie Pleasance" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 2:37 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 19th century underwear > And don't forget about periods. I don't imagine women from earlier ages > would enjoying blood dripping down their legs every month any more than > modern women would. They must have worn *something* to collect the monthly > mess! I don't care what you might call it; it must have existed in some > form or another. > but it wouldn't have been underwear in the sense that we would understand it, until the invention of modern adhesive pads (in the 1960s-70s) your pad (usually wads of cloth) was suspended from a belt, Victorian underwear would have been useless to catch much flow of blood because it didn't fit closely enough and anything non elasticised that fits as closely as modern underwear would have been extremely restrictive. Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra Australia ewalpole@austar.net.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 6 07:10:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i86BAETM008715 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 07:10:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86B9X4d011198 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Sep 2004 05:09:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86B9Tvj036847; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 05:09:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from alpha2.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (alpha2.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.0.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86B9Nvj036725 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 05:09:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 12:09:09 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: RE:[h-cost] Fur lining [WAS: v-neck gowns] To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C39F7@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: RE:[h-cost] Fur lining [WAS: v-neck gowns] Thread-Index: AcSR4L1RmszwH5yuSlqepTYlQRvH9ACH+NDg content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.21 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Cynthia > Robin Netherton wrote: > > the interesting theory (from Stevie Gamble, on this list) that the > > regular pleats/folds that occur on the outside are a function of the > > pressure from the regular vertical parallel seams used to piece > > hundreds of inch-wide squirrel skins into a larger fur lining. > > That is intriguing indeed. > > However, a full interior fur lining would make the garments very thick > through the body, especially considering how wide they are to be > gathered in by the belt. The images are universally narrow through the > body, not more than one would expect with just fabric layers. > > With fur, a garment like that compresses, empty, to the size of an > average woman's torso, and larger if it is a thicker fur; the images, if > they were all fur lined, would make every woman wearing a houppelande to > look extremly thick-bodied. > > Granted, there's some artistic license going on here, but that extreme a > difference? And every artist from tapestries to illuminations doing the > same thing? I have doubts. I used to think that too - until I encountered a rectangle of some extremely fine furs with the softest, thinest, supplest skins that I had ever seen. It was second hand, about the size of a rug or throw for covering an armchair, more expensive than I could afford and the shopkeeper had no idea what animals it was made from. It was fine and supple enough for me to scrunch the whole width of it in one hand so my fingers could meet ariound it. The individial pieces were of a uniform size that (at a guess, and from memory) were roughly 3 or 4 inches wide and 6 or 7 inches long and it was a sandy/greyish colour. A garement lined in that, even a very full garment, would not add much to the overall thickness through the body.... when you take into account the amount of artistic licence and the possible slimness of the original models, I don't think it's so far fetched I just wish I could have afforded to buy the piece Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 6 07:20:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i86BKmIL008755 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 07:20:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86BKA4d011739 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Sep 2004 05:20:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86BK8vj041795; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 05:20:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from alpha2.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (alpha2.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.0.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86BK5vj041771 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 05:20:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 12:20:02 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: RE: [h-cost] Paintings of Pregnant Women To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C39F8@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Paintings of Pregnant Women Thread-Index: AcSSKfQhjNJ5PI7rTFi8ZqX2eKLSagB2SZaQ content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.21 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Sometime in the last week or two, someone was looking for paintings of > pregnant women. While looking for books, I came across this "Visitation" by > Marx Reichlich, ca 1511. Both the Virgin and St Anne are visibly pregnant > (complete with tiny fetuses having a meet-and-greet between their bellies) > and wearing much more archaic clothing (cyclas-type surcoat, loose gowns, > wimple, veils) than the two other women on the street, who look very 16c > German. > > http://cgfa.sunsite.dk/r/p-reichli1.htm Is it just me or are they carrying those babies very low and aren't the bumps a bit on the far-gone side for such small foetuses?? OK, OK, I know - artistic liscence and all that - but even so.... Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 6 07:28:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i86BS6oe008793 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 07:28:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86BRJ4d012101 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Sep 2004 05:27:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86BRIvj045117; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 05:27:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86BR2vk044998 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 05:27:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i86BPITA028643 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 07:25:18 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 06 Sep 2004 07:25:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <413C4984.4050507@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 07:27:00 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval re-enactment organizations References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO How would an individual person subscribe to your new journal? -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Register to vote! Don't let that other guy win! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 6 07:48:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i86BmsEU008867 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 07:48:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86Bm54d012989 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Sep 2004 05:48:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86Bm3vj055015; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 05:48:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86Bm0vj054731 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 05:48:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i86Bmfa17772.; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 12:48:41 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 06 Sep 2004 12:47:26 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 12:47:00 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: breast exposure article Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> cvirtue+dated+1109548895.c2cb5d@thibault.org 01/09/2004 01:03:07 >>>wrote: >A side note, not on this topic: Those of you who are relatively new to >email discussions may not know that it is standard to put comments >and replies under what you're replying to (if you quote it at all). Having >your bit on top can be confusing, because it's harder to follow the >flow of discussion. I tend to put my comments on top because my email programme annoyingly inserts my automatic signature on top even when I've typed my message underneath! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 6 07:55:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i86BtYjk008904 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 07:55:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86Bsu4d013271 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Sep 2004 05:54:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86Bssvj058204; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 05:54:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from newmail.logical.net (newmail.logical.net [209.23.116.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86Bsgvk058086 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 05:54:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from homeec@telenet.net) Received: from computername (ip-208-20-92-128.modem.logical.net [208.20.92.128]) by newmail.logical.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i86BsYYA025142 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 07:54:37 -0400 Message-ID: <003101c49408$48ecbc60$805c14d0@computername> From: "Home Ec" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume/textile organizations: Did I miss any? Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 07:54:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > One particular request: Is there an organization or study group that > serves students/scholars working in historical embroidery? One of my favorites is Historical needlework. the contact is: Send questions to h-needlework-admin@ansteorra.org. Rowena _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 6 09:52:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i86DqnUE009627 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 09:52:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86Dp94d018208 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Sep 2004 07:51:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86Dp0vj014956; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 07:51:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay11-dav59.bay11.hotmail.com [64.4.39.89]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86Dowvj014899 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 07:50:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bear_janet@msn.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 06:50:52 -0700 Received: from 4.10.34.210 by bay11-dav59.bay11.hotmail.com with DAV; Mon, 06 Sep 2004 13:50:52 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [4.10.34.210] X-Originating-Email: [bear_janet@msn.com] X-Sender: bear_janet@msn.com From: "JAMES OGILVIE" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval re-enactment organizations Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 09:50:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 8.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V8.50.0017.1202 Seal-Send-Time: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 09:50:55 -0400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Sep 2004 13:50:52.0375 (UTC) FILETIME=[86227E70:01C49418] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i86DqnUE009627 Status: RO Medieval History Magazine is a really lovely glossy magazine published in England that is now being distributed in the U.S. by Chivalry Bookshelf (Brian Price's company). They do several book reviews in each issue and are somewhat geared to the re-enactor crowd. I will look up the copy I got at Pennsic to send you an address. Janet _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 6 09:59:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i86Dxpwv009664 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 09:59:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86Dx34d018695 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Sep 2004 07:59:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86Dx1vj019136; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 07:59:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86Dwxvj019051 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 07:58:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i86E05a02469.; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 15:00:06 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 06 Sep 2004 14:58:51 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 14:58:44 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pregnancy pillows 1550-1600? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, I think we're so attuned to the modern ideal of the slim figure with flat stomach that we think of a prominent abdomen as indicating pregnancy, whereas in the various eras when bulky skirts were worn it was the normal feminine look and not considered unattractive. Think of the famous Arnolfini portrait http://gallery.euroweb.hu/index1.html (look under Eyck). I've heard speculation over whether it was a wedding-day portrait and whether the wife was pregnant, whereas it's clear from the detail shot that the gathers below her waist go down *behind* the heavy mass of fabric she's holding in front of her. It simply shows that she can afford to dress in yards and yards of woollen cloth. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> robin@shell.nightowl.net 28/08/2004 16:54:51 >>> wrote: >There are also some books that claim that women wore "pregnancy >pillows" under early 15th c. dresses. As far as I know, that idea is a >completely unsupported modern guess by people who can't fathom the >idea that women, in the right clothing, will naturally stand in a posture >that modern eyes interpret as "pregnant." _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 6 10:11:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i86EBcKs009718 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 10:11:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86EB14d019313 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Sep 2004 08:11:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86EAwvj025472; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 08:10:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86EAuvj025406 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 08:10:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i86EC4a03905.; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 15:12:04 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 06 Sep 2004 15:10:49 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 15:10:41 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] To Hamlet or not to Hamlet (was QE1 & Bacon) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> stilskin@netspace.net.au 29/08/2004 04:16:48 >>> >Fact: The original Hamlet was written in Denmark about 100 years >before Shakespeare's birth. Shakespeare did not write the play but did >a scene-by-scene adaptation of the original without credit to the >original. >-C. Well, yes, a lot of Shakespeare's fictional plays are based on existing stories, as are those of some other Renaissance playwrights, but that doesn't make them "not their work". > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 6 10:13:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i86EDdbF009725 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 10:13:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86ED64d019436 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Sep 2004 08:13:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86ED4vj026566; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 08:13:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86ED0vj026475 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 08:13:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i86EE8a04117.; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 15:14:09 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 06 Sep 2004 15:12:54 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 15:12:42 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Busking, was Corset supply shop in London Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In Britain, "busking" is what street musicians do. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> cley@juno.com 30/08/2004 15:20:38 >>> Busking is a term used by entertainers at Renn Faires and similiar activities. Basically, performers go and do their thing, then pass the hat. Tried an alternate spelling, maybe 'busque'? Arlys ____________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 6 10:16:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i86EGCS4009739 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 10:16:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86EFW4d019565 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Sep 2004 08:15:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86EFVvj027844; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 08:15:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86EFOvj027770 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 08:15:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Received: from 209-165-44-182.jps.net ([209.165.44.182] helo=KALC) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1C4KHB-0006A4-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Sep 2004 07:15:21 -0700 From: "lisa-list" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Medieval re-enactment organizations Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 07:15:14 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin wrote: >Finally: What about groups outside the US and UK -- elsewhere in Europe, or in Australia? If they're of the type I describe above, please send me the name and contact info. http://www.arlho.net/ is a link to the The Australasian Register of Living History Organisations http://qlhf.cjb.net/ is the Queensland Living History Federation there may be similar organisations in other states. Lisa Sinervo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 6 10:26:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i86EQJSQ009769 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 10:26:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86EPc4d020323 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Sep 2004 08:25:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86EPZvj033058; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 08:25:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86EPXvj032986 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 08:25:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i86EQfa05505.; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 15:26:41 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 06 Sep 2004 15:25:26 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 15:24:54 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Vanity Fair Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> brujne@creighton.edu 02/09/2004 22:03:02 >>> >I hope to see this movie this weekend. Reportedly, the director asked >Reece's husband, if he wouldn't mind trying to get Reece pregnant >before filming started so she would have the correct Regency look, >which the current Hollywood aesthetic ideal contradicts. I hope he asked her if she'd mind as well! Seriously, I'm puzzled by this. I've always thought of the Regency "look" as being slim and columnar (as a reaction against the full skirts of the 18th century). Apparently the actress who played Jane Bennett in the BBC "Pride and Prejudice" was pregnant at the time and was able to conceal it under the high-waisted gowns, but I don't understand why pregnancy should be considered desirable for the period look. Anyway, I thought the Regency was a populoar style? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 6 10:41:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i86EfsNS009840 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 10:41:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86EfC4d021742 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Sep 2004 08:41:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86EfBvj041250; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 08:41:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86Ef7vj041218 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 08:41:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lisa-list@thrednedlestrete.com) Received: from 209-165-44-182.jps.net ([209.165.44.182] helo=KALC) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1C4Kg6-0002Tq-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Sep 2004 07:41:06 -0700 From: "lisa-list" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Medieval re-enactment organizations Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 07:41:01 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry Robin, for not picking out which groups are the best. I don't know them that well anymore. What about museums? Are you contacting Textile museums too? If so, I'd send something to the Abbey Museum of Art & Archaology admin@abbeymuseum.asn.au / http://www.abbeymuseum.asn.au/index.htm -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of lisa-list Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 7:15 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Medieval re-enactment organizations Robin wrote: >Finally: What about groups outside the US and UK -- elsewhere in Europe, or in Australia? If they're of the type I describe above, please send me the name and contact info. http://www.arlho.net/ is a link to the The Australasian Register of Living History Organisations http://qlhf.cjb.net/ is the Queensland Living History Federation there may be similar organisations in other states. Lisa Sinervo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 6 10:55:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i86EtpuU009903 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 10:55:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86Et24d022719 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Sep 2004 08:55:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86Esxvj048500; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 08:55:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m27.mx.aol.com (imo-m27.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86Esuvj048389 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 08:54:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.4.) id 6.12c.4b2ae6ab (4584) for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 10:54:46 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <12c.4b2ae6ab.2e6dd435@aol.com> Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 10:54:45 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Vanity Fair To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5031 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/6/2004 10:26:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk writes: but I don't understand why pregnancy should be considered desirable for the period look. Anyway, I thought the Regency was a populoar style? I wondered about that, too, but then think perhaps that the too-thin look of many of today's actresses would not come across well--you need a little bosom to carry off the look! Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 6 12:12:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i86GCgwM010361 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 12:12:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86GBl4d029608 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Sep 2004 10:11:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86GBgvj091574; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 10:11:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86GBevj091546 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 10:11:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from sdn-ap-009masprip0076.dialsprint.net ([63.186.144.76]) by smtp6.mindspring.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1C4M5i-0004KT-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Sep 2004 12:11:39 -0400 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 12:12:27 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] was Re: breast exposure article From: ruthanne baumgartner To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i86GBevj091546 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As a top-poster I guess I have to join in sometime. Actually I post in various spots depending on the nature of the post: € If I have a brief comment (1-5 lines) on a post by somebody else, I just stick it on top because scrolling down just to find "I agree!" is pretty irritating and the original post is fully visible below the little comment. € If I'm replying to just a little piece of the previous posting or to various small bits, I snip and interline (sounds like sewing!). € If I have a LONG comment, I post below. But as a reader I actually prefer seeing top postings, because I check the list frequently and usually remember the discussion well enough from the Subject line to need to read only the latest posting, or at most the last two--and in this case again, scrolling all the way down is irritating. Anyway, hey, I live in a democracy of diverse components and enjoy the list in the same sense. The only postings that really bother me are the ones that offer a brief comment ("I agree," "Can you send me the url?", "beautiful!") with NO context whatsoever! --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer p.s. Sorry-just violated my own rule by posting a longer comment at the top! on 9/6/04 7:47 AM, Kate M Bunting at K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk wrote: > > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby > >>>> cvirtue+dated+1109548895.c2cb5d@thibault.org 01/09/2004 01:03:07 >>>> wrote: > >> A side note, not on this topic: Those of you who are relatively new to > >> email discussions may not know that it is standard to put comments >> and replies under what you're replying to (if you quote it at all). > Having >> your bit on top can be confusing, because it's harder to follow the >> flow of discussion. > > I tend to put my comments on top because my email programme annoyingly > inserts my automatic signature on top even when I've typed my message > underneath! > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 6 12:43:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i86GhiG0010528 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 12:43:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86Gh24d001499 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Sep 2004 10:43:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86Gh0vj008429; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 10:43:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86Ggtvj008371 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 10:42:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25637 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 11:49:42 -0500 Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 11:49:41 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval re-enactment organizations In-Reply-To: <413C4984.4050507@thibault.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 6 Sep 2004, Cynthia Virtue wrote: > How would an individual person subscribe to your new journal? I'll let the list know when it's available. We're scheduled to launch officially at Kalamazoo in May 2005, though it might actually be out earlier. It'll be for sale (by single issue or subscription) via certain booksellers and also on the website of the publisher, Boydell & Brewer, which publishes a number of journals. While some individuals may want subscriptions, I expect that most will look at the table of contents of each volume and decide whether they want that particular issue, and buy one at a time. Still not sure whether these will be paperback or hardback, but right now a cheaper hardback with a jacket (rather than the expensive hardbacks first suggested to us) is also a possibility. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 6 12:46:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i86GkPc8010534 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 12:46:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86Gje4d001649 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Sep 2004 10:45:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86Gjcvj009877; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 10:45:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86Gjavj009844 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 10:45:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25693 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 11:52:27 -0500 Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 11:52:26 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume/textile organizations: Did I miss any? In-Reply-To: <003101c49408$48ecbc60$805c14d0@computername> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 6 Sep 2004, Home Ec wrote: > > One particular request: Is there an organization or study group that > > serves students/scholars working in historical embroidery? > One of my favorites is Historical needlework. the contact is: > Send questions to h-needlework-admin@ansteorra.org. To reiterate what I mentioned in my post: I'm looking for academic organizations for a (snail-mail) mailing list for the publisher to send announcements to. I'll get the e-mail groups/lists via online channels. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 6 13:15:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i86HFP8K010639 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 13:15:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86HEb4d003668 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Sep 2004 11:14:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86HETvj025192; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 11:14:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86HEQvj025161 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 11:14:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25935 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 12:21:17 -0500 Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 12:21:16 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Medieval re-enactment organizations In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 6 Sep 2004, lisa-list wrote: > Sorry Robin, for not picking out which groups are the best. I don't know > them that well anymore. What about museums? Are you contacting Textile > museums too? If so, I'd send something to the Abbey Museum of Art & > Archaology admin@abbeymuseum.asn.au / Museums, universities, and libraries are already on the publisher's standard list. They need us to provide the specialist organizations, conferences, etc. they might not ordinarily contact. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 6 13:25:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i86HPItD010673 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 13:25:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86HOf4d004228 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Sep 2004 11:24:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86HOevj030298; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 11:24:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com ([199.170.202.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86HOavj030240 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 11:24:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i86HjwhA001534 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 13:45:58 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: (from sfarmer@localhost) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3/Submit) id i86HjvPn001533 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 13:45:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 13:45:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Farmer Message-Id: <200409061745.i86HjvPn001533@sabre.goldsword.com> To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] simplicity Henry 8 pattern X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO forgive me if this is not the proper forum -- but I'd like to find the two Henry VIII patterns that Simplicity did 9650 and 9633 but they are long out of print. Does anybody know where I might get these? Thanks, susan (mom to the child who wants one!) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 6 15:26:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i86JQKQP011259 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 15:26:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86JPd4d013053 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Sep 2004 13:25:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86JPavj095783; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 13:25:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86JPVvj095707 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 13:25:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Theflamingneedle@aol.com) Received: from Theflamingneedle@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.4.) id 6.1c2.1e06d4dc (4362) for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 15:25:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Theflamingneedle@aol.com Message-ID: <1c2.1e06d4dc.2e6e13a0@aol.com> Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 15:25:20 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] underwear To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5032 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/5/04 10:07:46 PM Central Daylight Time, rreed@indirectobject.com writes: If I can't find her address this week, you could try writing St. Martin's Press, her publisher, and they'll forward your request. Becky She actually has a website now, www.margaretgeorge.com. I keep meaning to write to her, but I've never gotten around to it. **Tiff** eBay Selling ID: Reflections*of*Worth Historical Reproductions and Costumes "Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance." -Will Durant _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 6 15:31:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i86JV4WU011286 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 15:31:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86JUO4d013338 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Sep 2004 13:30:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86JUNvj098530; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 13:30:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86JUKvj098480 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 13:30:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Theflamingneedle@aol.com) Received: from Theflamingneedle@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.4.) id 6.8c.14403d09 (4362) for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 15:30:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Theflamingneedle@aol.com Message-ID: <8c.14403d09.2e6e14c5@aol.com> Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 15:30:13 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] simplicity Henry 8 pattern To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5032 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/6/04 12:25:32 PM Central Daylight Time, sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com writes: forgive me if this is not the proper forum -- but I'd like to find the two Henry VIII patterns that Simplicity did 9650 and 9633 but they are long out of print. Does anybody know where I might get these? Thanks, susan (mom to the child who wants one!) Definitely keep an eye on eBay, because that would probably be the least expensive way to get one and I often see OOP patterns listed there. Another option is www.monsterpatterns.com. **Tiff** eBay Selling ID: Reflections*of*Worth Historical Reproductions and Costumes "Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance." -Will Durant _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 6 16:24:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i86KOBKN011532 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 16:24:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86KNU4d017119 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Sep 2004 14:23:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86KNOvj027590; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 14:23:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net (cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.226]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86KNKvj027534 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 14:23:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from msberard@earthlink.net) Received: from dialup-4.131.0.69.dial1.chicago1.level3.net ([4.131.0.69] helo=earthlink.net) by cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1C4Q1H-0004AI-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Sep 2004 13:23:19 -0700 Message-ID: <413CC575.47858293@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 15:15:49 -0500 From: Ms Berard X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] How to draft a neckline X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was looking through my old threads. In the Feb/March 1987 on page 46 is an article on "A Linen Shift: Plain Sewing Make sthe Most of Your Fabric". It looks easy enough but I really don't know how to draft a neckline. Any suggestion or advice? Onaree -- Proud list mom of Irish Crochet Lovers http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Irish_Crochet_Lovers/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 6 17:21:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i86LLtaQ011794 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 17:21:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86LG84d019878 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Sep 2004 15:16:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86LG5vj054982; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 15:16:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86LG3vj054944 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 15:16:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1C4QqG-000LQH-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Sep 2004 21:16:00 +0000 Message-ID: <96yZopLINNPBJwru@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 22:14:48 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] How to draft a neckline References: <413CC575.47858293@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <413CC575.47858293@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Are you just looking for a simple round neckline? One of my friends recently gave me this formula for t-tunics, for making sure your neckline is big enough and doesn't come up too high at the front: Take your collar measurement and divide by 5. Starting from the centre of a straight line across where the neckline will be, the back is one inch down and one-fifth of the measurement to either side. The front is one fifth down and one fifth to either side. That gives you your minimum, then you can make it wider, or lower at the front, or whatever you want for the fashion aspect. Jean Ms Berard wrote >I was looking through my old threads. In the Feb/March 1987 on page 46 >is an article on "A Linen Shift: Plain Sewing Make sthe Most of Your >Fabric". > >It looks easy enough but I really don't know how to draft a neckline. > >Any suggestion or advice? > >Onaree -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 6 17:25:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i86LPrRr011815 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 17:25:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86LP54d020876 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Sep 2004 15:25:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86LP3vj059648; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 15:25:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86LP0vj059601 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 15:25:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from msberard@earthlink.net) Received: from dialup-4.131.0.69.dial1.chicago1.level3.net ([4.131.0.69] helo=earthlink.net) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1C4Qyv-0007iX-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Sep 2004 14:24:58 -0700 Message-ID: <413CD3E7.87ADE129@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 16:17:27 -0500 From: Ms Berard X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] How to draft a neckline References: <413CC575.47858293@earthlink.net> <96yZopLINNPBJwru@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO More of a scoop neckline, but I'm not good with curves. But thanks for the advice. Onaree Jean Waddie wrote: > > Are you just looking for a simple round neckline? One of my friends > recently gave me this formula for t-tunics, for making sure your > neckline is big enough and doesn't come up too high at the front: > > Take your collar measurement and divide by 5. > Starting from the centre of a straight line across where the neckline > will be, the back is one inch down and one-fifth of the measurement to > either side. The front is one fifth down and one fifth to either side. > > That gives you your minimum, then you can make it wider, or lower at the > front, or whatever you want for the fashion aspect. > > Jean > -- Proud list mom of Irish Crochet Lovers http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Irish_Crochet_Lovers/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 6 19:45:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i86NjrZn012352 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 19:45:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86Nj84d029752 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Sep 2004 17:45:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86Nirvj034163; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 17:44:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41506.mail.yahoo.com (web41506.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.89]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i86Nipvj034098 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 17:44:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celtic_dragonrider@yahoo.ca) Message-ID: <20040906234444.77295.qmail@web41506.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.82.52.78] by web41506.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 06 Sep 2004 19:44:44 EDT Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 19:44:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Janet Renzetti Subject: Re: [h-cost] simplicity Henry 8 pattern To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <200409061745.i86HjvPn001533@sabre.goldsword.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO try ebay Susan Farmer wrote:forgive me if this is not the proper forum -- but I'd like to find the two Henry VIII patterns that Simplicity did 9650 and 9633 but they are long out of print. Does anybody know where I might get these? Thanks, susan (mom to the child who wants one!) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 6 19:46:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i86NkVAl012355 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 19:46:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86Njp4d029803 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Sep 2004 17:45:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86Njpvj034665; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 17:45:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from incoming.SIGENETICS.com ([209.172.110.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86NjXvj034448 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 17:45:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sbuchler@silicongenetics.com) Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1830s sleeve puffs Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 16:45:26 -0700 Message-ID: <0D3431E0FD777844A4ED9507E4D698D90CBF0E@incoming.sigenetics.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 712 Thread-Index: AcSSqhtxIdhnLjc1QbmGQXrclvem3gBwRIeg From: "Sunny Buchler" To: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i86NjXvj034448 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Penny Ladnier wrote: > When I worked on an exhibit at the Valentine Museum, we had a > set of the puffs. They tied onto the arm. The pair we had > were filled with horsehair if I remember correctly. They > were very light. They dated form the 1830s period. Thanks! Sorry for the delay in responding -- Can you simply tie them tight enough that they won't slip down the arm? My arm is widest at the part where it would have to be tied... Thanks again! -sunny _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 6 19:47:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i86NlW4Y012359 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 19:47:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86Nkv4d029893 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Sep 2004 17:46:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i86Nkuvj035290; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 17:46:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41502.mail.yahoo.com (web41502.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i86Nkqvj035225 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 17:46:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celtic_dragonrider@yahoo.ca) Message-ID: <20040906234647.7623.qmail@web41502.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.82.52.78] by web41502.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 06 Sep 2004 19:46:47 EDT Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 19:46:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Janet Renzetti Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval re-enactment organizations To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I know of, but I don't know if it is the offical name...but the Renn Fare (SP?) Robin Netherton wrote: As I just described in my previous message, I'm putting together some marketing information to assist the publisher of the new journal, Medieval Clothing & Textiles, of which I'm an editor. One of the things I'm compiling is a list of re-enactment groups that cover this period that should receive notices of the availability of the journal. Yes, there's probably a web page somewhere that lists a bunch of groups, but what I'd really like is personal recommendations to help me separate out the type of group we should send flyers to. I have to get this list done posthaste, so I'm not going to spend time researching every possible group myself; if it's too obscure to be known to people on this list, it's probably not large enough to need a flyer. The point here is simply to make sure that anyone who might want to buy the journal will hear about it. (Yes, I'll be sending out appropriate notices to the usual e-mail lists, for forwarding on. That's not what I'm talking about here.) So I'm really looking for groups large enough to have their own newsletters or communications who would want to then spread the word to their members. We'll trust that the smaller local companies will hear about the journal through other avenues. Obviously the SCA is on my list. Beyond that, in the U.S., I can think of: La Belle Compagnie Company of St. George (maybe?) Any other major medieval re-enactment or living history groups out there that would fit the description above? I'll need contact info, too, so I can tell the publisher where to send the flyer. And does anyone have contact info for St. George? Meanwhile, my UK co-editor has sent me a list she's got of UK re-enactment groups, but it's focused on the earlier Middle Ages, cutting off about 1300, so I need the names of major groups that cover 14th, 15th, and 16th centuries. So, additions are welcome (with contact info, please!). Also, if you know of any reason I shouldn't include any of these (e.g. if they've dissolved, changed name, etc.), please let me know! Here's what she sent: Da Engliscan Gesidas The Vikings The Dark Age Society Angelcynn (I need a current contact address!) Anmod Dracan Brittania Combrogi Colchester Historical Enactment Society Regia Anglorum The Vikings of Middle England Conquest Escalfeld Medieval Society The White Company Theod Wuffingas Finally: What about groups outside the US and UK -- elsewhere in Europe, or in Australia? If they're of the type I describe above, please send me the name and contact info. Many many many thanks to all. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 6 20:15:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i870FSiU012452 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 20:15:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i870Ep4d001974 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Sep 2004 18:14:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i870Envj050392; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 18:14:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i870Ejvk050354 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 18:14:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-132.sonic.net [209.148.112.132]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i870Eh6s023043 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 17:14:44 -0700 Message-ID: <413CFD96.8070505@lavoltapress.com> Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 17:15:18 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval re-enactment organizations References: <20040906234647.7623.qmail@web41502.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040906234647.7623.qmail@web41502.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO We always follow the conventional publishing wisdom that it's worth sending a press release to any publication at all likely to announce the book. The cost is only a sheet or two of paper, an envelope, and a stamp. It's not worth agonizing over who gets a press release. If you're in doubt, put the publication on the list and keep them there unless they ask to be removed. The latter is infrequent. It's part of a periodical editor's job to read press releases--it's not like a personal spam. Review copies are much more expensive. They should go only to publications whose circulation is large enough for a review to do some good. And that are (a) very likely to publish a review or (b) so very important that a review would be especially valuable, even if review chances are rather remote. Review copies sent elsewhere tend to wind up at the editorial assistant's local used bookstore, and suchlike venues. We only send out 10 or 12 review copies per book. Anyway, you probably already know about any publication that is that important to your market. Pretty much any US publication and organization of any size, plus many smaller ones, and many UK organizations too, are on the Internet. This helps a great deal in researching publications. If an organization does not make it clear whether they publish a newsletter, we just email them and say we are thinking of sending a press release; so do they have a newsletter, what is its name, and how do we contact the editor? Putting together a list of media is time consuming but pretty straightforward. Hope this helps. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com >Yes, there's probably a web page somewhere that lists a bunch of groups, >but what I'd really like is personal recommendations to help me separate >out the type of group we should send flyers to. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 6 20:20:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i870KDhw012474 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 20:20:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i870JV4d002267 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Sep 2004 18:19:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i870JQvj052788; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 18:19:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from incoming.SIGENETICS.com ([209.172.110.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i870JLvj052685 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 18:19:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sbuchler@silicongenetics.com) Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Subject: RE: [h-cost] 1830s sleeve puffs Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 17:19:12 -0700 Message-ID: <0D3431E0FD777844A4ED9507E4D698D90CBF0F@incoming.sigenetics.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 712 Thread-Index: AcSSqhtxIdhnLjc1QbmGQXrclvem3gBwRIegAAE/hDA= From: "Sunny Buchler" To: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i870JLvj052685 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just wanted to say thank-you to everyone who has responded to my sleeve-puff question! It has helped a lot :-) Thanks! -sunny _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 6 21:35:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i871Z1S8012681 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 21:35:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i871Y94d008300 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Sep 2004 19:34:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i871Y6vj093566; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 19:34:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i871Xwvk093502 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 19:34:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i871bgc2026243 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 21:37:44 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: OT: standards of reply Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 21:43:27 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <1524340.1094057489171.JavaMail.root@wamui01.slb.atl.earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <1524340.1094057489171.JavaMail.root@wamui01.slb.atl.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200409062143.27729.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 01 September 2004 12:51 pm, Chris Laning wrote: > I'm continually amazed by the people who flatly declare "top posting is > rude" simply because that is what they've been told -- without taking into > account any of the other factors that have been listed: varying levels of > e-mail experience, the biases of one's software, et cetera. For some people > it seems to have become a "religious" issue, i.e. a firmly held belief not > subject to rational discussion, rather like Mac versus PC or Opera versus > any other browser . I personally do not mind top posting if the post is short (3-5 lines) and is responding to a similarly short post or portion of a post. What is truly annoying is to have to scroll back down a long, unexcerpted message merely to figure out how the top post is responsive. -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 6 22:30:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i872UjEk012865 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 22:30:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i872U64d011929 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Sep 2004 20:30:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i872U3vj023778; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 20:30:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.reddawn.net (rrcs-west-67-52-227-118.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i872U1vj023685 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 20:30:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by mail.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A6DD425D5 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 21:55:41 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <413D1CFB.6050104@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 21:29:15 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] simplicity Henry 8 pattern References: <8c.14403d09.2e6e14c5@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8c.14403d09.2e6e14c5@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Theflamingneedle@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/6/04 12:25:32 PM Central Daylight Time, > sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com writes: > forgive me if this is not the proper forum -- but I'd like to find the > two Henry VIII patterns that Simplicity did 9650 and 9633 but they are > long out of print. Does anybody know where I might get these? I would suggest contacting Simplicity and asking if they have any left in the warehouse. They do sell remainders after they pull a pattern. However, it's been over a year, so you may not have luck there. > Definitely keep an eye on eBay, because that would probably be the least > expensive way to get one and I often see OOP patterns listed there. Another > option is www.monsterpatterns.com. Ebay maybe. Monsterpatterns.com got smacked for selling the big 3 without license and didn't carry that brand last time I looked. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 6 22:41:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i872fZE9012935 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 22:41:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i872Zu4d012310 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Sep 2004 20:35:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i872Zrvj026753; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 20:35:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com (imo-d23.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i872Zovj026684 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 20:35:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Theflamingneedle@aol.com) Received: from Theflamingneedle@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.4.) id 6.c4.153420ec (4560) for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 22:35:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Theflamingneedle@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 22:35:36 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] simplicity Henry 8 pattern To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5032 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/6/04 9:30:38 PM Central Daylight Time, dawn@reddawn.net writes: Monsterpatterns.com got smacked for selling the big 3 without license and didn't carry that brand last time I looked. I was just on their website today, and they are carrying Simplicity, McCall's, Butterick, Vogue, and New Look patterns currently. **Tiff** eBay Selling ID: Reflections*of*Worth Historical Reproductions and Costumes "Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance." -Will Durant _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 6 22:42:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i872gxM6012943 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 22:42:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i872gO4d012598 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Sep 2004 20:42:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i872gMvj030312; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 20:42:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.197]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i872gKvj030290 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 20:42:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jacquelinejbump@gmail.com) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 77so360810rnk for ; Mon, 06 Sep 2004 19:42:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.78.70 with SMTP id a70mr1721392rnb; Mon, 06 Sep 2004 19:42:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.163.40 with HTTP; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 19:42:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4c5accc80409061942665f45e9@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 22:42:16 -0400 From: Kristalori History To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] simplicity Henry 8 pattern In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was there too (monsterpatterns) and they had lots of every company. Plus if you google it all sorts of the little pattern web stores have it I notice. On Mon, 6 Sep 2004 22:35:36 EDT, theflamingneedle@aol.com > I was just on their website today, and they are carrying Simplicity, > McCall's, Butterick, Vogue, and New Look patterns currently. > > **Tiff** -- "Pardon me, Lady Tudor Glitz, but telling people things aren't period isn't period." Italian Ladies 2005 Calendar http://www.lulu.com/kristalori _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 6 22:50:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i872oQoB012955 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 22:50:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i872ne4d012955 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Sep 2004 20:49:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i872navj034203; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 20:49:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i872nYvk034165 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 20:49:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i872rQYl028574 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 22:53:27 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] PS on underwear Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 22:59:12 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200409062259.12046.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sunday 05 September 2004 6:35 pm, Lauren Walker wrote: > PS: In fact, I would think that menstruation and incontinence might to some > extent militate AGAINST women's underpants. Underpants would be at too much > risk of getting dirty and tangling with the belt-and-pad arrangements. As, > I guarantee you, they did in the 1970s! Agreed. I *hated* the belt and pad set up. Fortunately, the pads you stick on the crotch of your underwear were invented shortly after I began menstruating. -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 7 00:21:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i874LgIh013324 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 00:21:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i874L04d019858 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Sep 2004 22:21:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i874Jlvj082516; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 22:19:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i874Jfvj082461 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 22:19:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA29867 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 23:26:34 -0500 Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 23:26:33 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval re-enactment organizations In-Reply-To: <413CFD96.8070505@lavoltapress.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 6 Sep 2004, Lavolta Press wrote: > We always follow the conventional publishing wisdom that it's worth > sending a press release to any publication at all likely to announce > the book. The cost is only a sheet or two of paper, an envelope, and a > stamp. It's not worth agonizing over who gets a press release. If > you're in doubt, put the publication on the list and keep them there > unless they ask to be removed. Definitely good advice in general, but in this case, my request to this list did not ask about "publications" per se. I asked about re-enactment groups that are likely to have newsletters (which most likely are the larger groups, the ones that have multiple chapters or that cover more than one local area). I'm not going to go to a lot of trouble to dig up contact addresses for the dozens/hundreds of individual local groups. With smaller, local groups, assuming you can even find a snail-mail address, your mailing will probably reach a private home, and the contact person is not necessarily personally interested in researching historic costume. That person might glance at a flyer and pitch it without realizing it was meant to be spread around the group. Truth is, I'm sure most of the re-enactors we're hoping to reach will actually get the news directly via announcements forwarded around e-mail lists. That's quite a different channel (and actually a much easier and cheaper one!) than snail-mail flyers. Still, I'm indeed going to include any of groups for which I have solid contact info on the snail-mail list I send to the publisher. Of course we're putting far greater care into our list of *publications*, meaning magazines, newsletters of academic organizations, and other academic journals. For these, we certainly are compiling a conventional mailing list. That's why, in another message, I asked about organizations that I might have missed that should be included. (Fortunately I need only provide the specialist organizations and publications related to our topic, as the publisher has an extensive standard list of institutions and libraries.) > Review copies are much more expensive. They should go only to > publications whose circulation is large enough for a review to do some > good... Having been in magazine/journal publishing for upwards of 20 years now, I also understand about the difference between announcements and review copies. But thanks for pointing it out. My queries were in regards to our announcement list -- as you said, flyers are cheap and should be sprinkled around liberally to any remotely appropriate publication we can find. > Pretty much any US publication and organization of any size, plus many > smaller ones, and many UK organizations too, are on the Internet. > This helps a great deal in researching publications. Having spent most of Labor Day weekend compiling the marketing information our publisher has asked for, I can report that a large proportion of those web pages neglect to give a mailing address for the organization and/or newsletter. E-mail addresses, yes. I've been sending out my share of inquiries... --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 7 01:20:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i875K7hG013634 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 01:20:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i875JT4d023314 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Sep 2004 23:19:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i875JQvj013792; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 23:19:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i875JOvj013745 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 23:19:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA30301 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 00:26:17 -0500 Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 00:26:16 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] PS on underwear In-Reply-To: <200409062259.12046.cathy@thyrsus.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 6 Sep 2004, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > Agreed. I *hated* the belt and pad set up. Fortunately, the pads you > stick on the crotch of your underwear were invented shortly after I > began menstruating. Back in the belt-and-pad days, I learned early on how to approximate that effect. Then (as now, still, in some places) if you got caught without supplies while out of the house, you'd find a public ladies' room and pop some money into a machine to get a box with a pad in it. If you were already wearing a belt and pad, you could just swap out the pad on your own belt, but if you were just starting your period, you probably wouldn't have a belt with you. So, in the box with the pad, there were two safety pins, so you could pin the ends of the pad to your underwear. It didn't take me long to figure out that this was *much* more comfortable and secure than the belt arrangement, and soon I wore my pads that way routinely. Then the manufacturers must have figured out that this was the way to go, and started putting adhesive on the backs of the pads. Now, of course, we have ultra thin maxi supreme extra longs, with wings even, and special curves and shapes. How did we ever manage without those features? I opened up a new brand of pad this month and was astounded to find that the wings sealed not with adhesive strips, but with *velcro.* --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 7 02:00:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8760buc013869 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 02:00:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i875wm4d025677 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Sep 2004 23:58:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i875wFvj033101; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 23:58:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i875wDvj033083 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 23:58:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 310CB2B1F9 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 00:58:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p133.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.214.135]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 2ECF2D3F5 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 00:58:11 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historic Costume" Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 00:58:15 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Simplicity patterns X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://www.simplicity.com/index.cfm?page=comments.cfm Perhaps if enough of us inquire as to the possibility of a return of certain patterns they may re-issue them or make a revamp of it. I have seen on this list and another costume list people wanting Simplicity pattern #8725, the sideless surcote costume. And this is the second time I have heard someone looking for #9633. The above url is to Simplicity comments and feedback site. I have already put in inquiries about the two aforementioned patterns. Now I just have to wait and see what they have to say. De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 7 02:20:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i876K2aY021017 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 02:20:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8766V4d026045 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Sep 2004 00:06:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8766Uvj037096; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 00:06:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8766Svk037077 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 00:06:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-226.sonic.net [209.148.112.226]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i8766Ptl029631 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 23:06:26 -0700 Message-ID: <413D5005.4040302@lavoltapress.com> Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 23:07:01 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval re-enactment organizations References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I asked about re-enactment >groups that are likely to have newsletters (which most likely are the >larger groups, the ones that have multiple chapters or that cover more >than one local area). I'm not going to go to a lot of trouble to dig up >contact addresses for the dozens/hundreds of individual local groups. With >smaller, local groups, assuming you can even find a snail-mail address, >your mailing will probably reach a private home, and the contact person is >not necessarily personally interested in researching historic costume. >That person might glance at a flyer and pitch it without realizing it was >meant to be spread around the group. > > It's not necessarily a larger group that has a newsletter. It's just a group that has one or more people willing to take on the often substantial work of organizing, publishing, and distributing the newsletter. You'll note that I suggested sending a press release to newsletters (and also magazines and journals), not a flyer. A press release is written specifically for reprinting excerpts, or even the whole press release. It is written sothe publication can extract the information as easily as possible, without actually having to write anything. (Which reprinting/copying, BTW, is legal, because that is understood to be the purpose of the press release.) It has a fairly standard format, which you can find described in any number of books on writing press releases and on marketing, probably on some websites too. A press release does not look like an ad or a flyer. It will not be mistaken for any personal communication, even if sent to the home of a newsletter editor. I know from experience it's a lot of work to collect the contact data. However, for a niche publication, like one on historic costume, there simply are no large-circulation periodicals. So what you have to do is research a whole bunch of small publications and hope they add up. >Truth is, I'm sure most of the re-enactors we're hoping to reach will >actually get the news directly via announcements forwarded around e-mail >lists. That's quite a different channel (and actually a much easier and >cheaper one!) than snail-mail flyers. > It's easier and cheaper, but not nearly as effective as sending out 100 or so press releases in addition to the email lists. The thing is, even a fairly large email list has, what, maybe 300 members? And people very active on the web tend to be on more than one list, so you're reaching some of the same people multiple times rather than a new audience. Also, a great many people interested in historic costume who don't choose to participate in email lists or news groups. I'd say most customers currently on our direct mail list are not in any email groups I know of. > >Of course we're putting far greater care into our list of *publications*, >meaning magazines, newsletters of academic organizations, and other >academic journals. For these, we certainly are compiling a conventional >mailing list. n extensive standard list of institutions and >libraries.) > > Well, I put great care into all aspects of my marketing lists, including visiting all websites of publications we send to before every mailing. But they're my books and I care about them. Which is why I haven't yielded to the tempation to hire a college student or someone like that to do the grunt work of marketing. > >Having been in magazine/journal publishing for upwards of 20 years now, I >also understand about the difference between announcements and review >copies. But thanks for pointing it out. > I was merely pointing out the difference in expense, as overdistribution of review copies has been a significant financial drain for many small publishers I know. > My queries were in regards to our >announcement list -- as you said, flyers are cheap and should be sprinkled >around liberally to any remotely appropriate publication we can find. > > I was suggesting press releases . . . Flyers really are better for advertising to individuals. I don't think a publication would necessarily know what to do with one, or want to spend any trouble on rewriting the info. >Having spent most of Labor Day weekend compiling the marketing information >our publisher has asked for, I can report that a large proportion of those >web pages neglect to give a mailing address for the organization and/or >newsletter. E-mail addresses, yes. I've been sending out my share of >inquiries... > > > > A lot of websites bury contact data in weird places and you have to look around for it. But yes, a few don't give any and I have to ask. I usually spend about two or three months around the publication of each book doing nothing but marketing research and marketing. But again, they are my own books so I'm motivated. I would never do some of the things I do for anyone else's project. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming Two new books of 1870s and 1880s patterns! http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 7 04:17:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i878Hrik028693 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 04:17:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i878HC4d003069 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Sep 2004 02:17:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i878H8vj002552; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 02:17:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.254.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i878H5vj002514 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 02:17:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 09:17:01 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: RE: [h-cost] How to draft a neckline To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A02@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] How to draft a neckline Thread-Index: AcSUkoU+UJDSCoCpQFmeTh12eLOFZQAIA6kg content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.21 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > It looks easy enough but I really don't know how to draft a neckline. > > Any suggestion or advice? I've tried various methods but found the best one is to make the smallest hole (or T-shaped slit) that the wearer can get their head through, make up the entire garment except the neckline and put it on, then maker where the neckline needs to be, add seam/hem allowance on the inside of that lineand cut along that line. If the neckline needs to mirror that of a gown worn over the smock, put the gown on over it before marking the neckline, mark the smock neckline the required amount inside the gown neckline then add the seam/hem allowance on the inside of that and cut. Good luck Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 7 07:48:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i87BmQGi014293 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 07:48:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87Ble4d013764 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Sep 2004 05:47:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87BlSvj004691; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 05:47:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87BlQvj004625 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 05:47:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lauren.walker@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (h0006255ec5ea.ne.client2.attbi.com[66.31.43.36]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <2004090711472001300asn52e>; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 11:47:20 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 07:46:14 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] PS on underwear From: Lauren Walker To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > From: Robin Netherton > On Mon, 6 Sep 2004, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > >> Agreed. I *hated* the belt and pad set up. Fortunately, the pads you >> stick on the crotch of your underwear were invented shortly after I >> began menstruating. > So, in the box with the pad, there were two safety > pins, so you could pin the ends of the pad to your underwear. > > I opened up a new brand of pad this month and was astounded to find that > the wings sealed not with adhesive strips, but with *velcro.* > > --Robin Well, so long as we're HAVING this conversation -- yes, the safety pins were MUCH better -- but as the belts we remember were so ill-designed (I particularly hated the sort of girdle-clips to hold the pads, which were just as likely to pinch skin, and of course the tendency of the whole pad to migrate to a useless location or even flip over) can our foremothers have put up with such a bad arrangement? Would it have taken much to improve it? I always suspected the belt would be better if it weren't elastic -- though that would interfere with mass production of the things. Maybe it's where worn out narrow wares went to die...? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 7 07:53:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i87Br7dq014306 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 07:53:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87BqX4d014045 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Sep 2004 05:52:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87BqUvj007338; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 05:52:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87BqSvj007309 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 05:52:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA32616 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 06:59:22 -0500 Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 06:59:21 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval re-enactment organizations In-Reply-To: <413D5005.4040302@lavoltapress.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 6 Sep 2004, Lavolta Press wrote: > You'll note that I suggested sending a press release to newsletters > (and also magazines and journals), not a flyer. A press release is > written specifically for reprinting excerpts, or even the whole press > release. Sorry, Fran, I was using the word interchangeably, for the purposes of my request here, where most people won't know or care about the difference. I've been writing press releases for 20 years (and, more often, receiving and using them, as a reporter and editor on newspapers and magazines). I appreciate your advice, but I should point out that I'm not *sending* anything myself, or even making decisions on what goes where ... the publisher is, and as they're one of the major publishers in this field and I've seen how they operate, I think I can I trust them to have their procedures down pat. I'm only supplying the addresses for specialist organizations that would not otherwise be on their list, and making recommendations as to who should get what sort of contact. Having been through this process from the other side (and the recipient side) more times than I can count, it's a pleasure to only have to be doing this much. > I know from experience it's a lot of work to collect the contact data. > However, for a niche publication, like one on historic costume, there > simply are no large-circulation periodicals. So what you have to do is > research a whole bunch of small publications and hope they add up. And just in case you weren't certain, (1) I wasn't complaining (just asking for input, from this group among others), and (2) I wasn't looking for instructions on self-marketing a book. My post here was exactly the sort of "research" you are suggesting I do, a role I am familiar with from many years' worth of business. Fortunately, for this project, all I actually had to do was put the book together. As I said, it's nice to have a professional marketing department doing the rest, and also nice that a regular part of *their* research process is to ask their authors for substantial input. I suspect I'm giving them more input than most of their authors would, but that's only because I'm used to being in their chair, not the author's chair. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 7 08:37:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i87CbubL014524 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 08:37:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87Cb94d015917 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Sep 2004 06:37:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87Cb4vj030336; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 06:37:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87Cb1vj030276 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 06:37:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Theflamingneedle@aol.com) Received: from Theflamingneedle@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.4.) id 6.1a3.293569e2 (3940) for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 08:36:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Theflamingneedle@aol.com Message-ID: <1a3.293569e2.2e6f0565@aol.com> Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 08:36:53 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] PS on underwear To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5032 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/7/04 6:48:51 AM Central Daylight Time, lauren.walker@comcast.net writes: (I particularly hated the sort of girdle-clips to hold the pads, which were just as likely to pinch skin, and of course the tendency of the whole pad to migrate to a useless location or even flip over) can our foremothers have put up with such a bad arrangement? Some of us now listen to stories about belts and safety pins and think, "omg, how on earth did they stand that?" But I imagine that the generation that was stuck with these contraptions, in their turn also listened to seeming horror-stories from the older females of their acquaintence. Compared to the idea of using cloth rags that must be toted everywhere (or required one to retire to the house for several days), probably had a disastrous tendency to actually slip completely OUT, and must be laundered for reuse, I would imagine that disposable napkins - however inconveniently attached - seemed like God's gift to women. **Tiff** eBay Selling ID: Reflections*of*Worth Historical Reproductions and Costumes "Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance." -Will Durant _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 7 09:05:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i87D5QOq014602 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 09:05:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87D4Q4d017408 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Sep 2004 07:04:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87D4Fvj044747; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 07:04:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ns3.linuxwebnet.com (ns3.linuxwebnet.com [216.133.76.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i87D4Bvj044663 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 07:04:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from judymitch@oldwaylane.net) Received: (qmail 7776 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2004 23:24:01 -0000 Received: from dialup-4.249.90.180.dial1.washington2.level3.net (HELO oldwaylane.net) (4.249.90.180) by shada.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 2004 23:24:01 -0000 Message-ID: <4137A040.7060406@oldwaylane.net> Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 18:35:44 -0400 From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Who asked about diamond-weave wool? References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C39C7@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C39C7@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Teddy wrote: > A while back someone was asking about diamond-weave wool and I've > forgotten who it was. > > Whoever you are, if you could email me I can give you details of the one > I mentioned having seen on a traders stall at an event - I tracked it > down over the weekend and got a sample of it for you. ooo! I wasn't the one who brought it up onlist so I don't qualify as the one you got the sample for (darnit!), but I'm definately interested in info. Are they affordable (without mortgaging the house), and would they ship to the US????? wow. -Judy Mitchell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 7 10:07:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i87E7BIj014830 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 10:07:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87E5t4d021997 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Sep 2004 08:05:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87E5mvj083636; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 08:05:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87E5hvj083519 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 08:05:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-8.13) id A02E16C0078; Tue, 07 Sep 2004 10:05:34 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.103 ([209.131.81.103] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 7 Sep 04 14:05:33 -0000 Message-ID: <006701c494e4$b59f8040$675183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume/textile organizations: Did I miss any? Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 10:12:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO One magazine that has not been mentioned is "Pieceworks". They usually are up on what is new in publications related to needle work crafts. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 12:52 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume/textile organizations: Did I miss any? > > On Mon, 6 Sep 2004, Home Ec wrote: > > > > One particular request: Is there an organization or study group that > > > serves students/scholars working in historical embroidery? > > > One of my favorites is Historical needlework. the contact is: > > Send questions to h-needlework-admin@ansteorra.org. > > To reiterate what I mentioned in my post: I'm looking for academic > organizations for a (snail-mail) mailing list for the publisher to send > announcements to. I'll get the e-mail groups/lists via online channels. > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 7 10:23:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i87ENBjc014893 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 10:23:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87EMS4d023163 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Sep 2004 08:22:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87EMQvj094593; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 08:22:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87EMLvj094484 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 08:22:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-8.13) id A4151C6B008E; Tue, 07 Sep 2004 10:22:13 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.103 ([209.131.81.103] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 7 Sep 04 14:22:12 -0000 Message-ID: <00ad01c494e7$08f75680$675183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040905164911.71A04E5BC7@ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 19th century underwear Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 10:29:07 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Re the Bible injunction, no one has mentioned the whole raillery about women wearing 'bifurcated garments' at all! There are many references in 19th C magazines that discuss the propriety of wearing pants/trowsers/drawers if one is a woman. I thing it is Cunnington that mentions that no lady would demean herself by so doing. This attitude did not change until after the 1860s, but the issue of bifurcated garments continues to get bad press. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "kathleen lewis" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 12:49 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 19th century underwear > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Katie Pleasance > Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2004 09:37:51 -0700 > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] 19th century underwear > > > And don't forget about periods. I don't imagine women from earlier ages > > would enjoying blood dripping down their legs every month any more than > > modern women would. They must have worn *something* to collect the monthly > > mess! > > This is *purely* oral history, so it may not be quite correct, especially since the initial source was male (my Great-Grandfather),although living in a one room cabin would make it difficult to remain totally ignorant of these things. According to my Grandma, he said that when he was a boy (1890's *very* rural Kentucky) that women didn't wear drawers because the Bible forbade women wearing pants. When they were mentruating, they used rags held in place by a belt-like affair. So I wouldn't dismiss out of hand the possibility that women in at least some times and places used specially built devices for their periods, and wore no underpants the rest of the time. > > -Katie > Xander: You up for a little reconnaissance? > Buffy: You mean where we all sculpt and paint and stuff? > Xander: No, that was the Renaissance. > > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages > http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 7 10:36:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i87Eat5B014988 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 10:36:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87EaG4d024404 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Sep 2004 08:36:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87EaCvj004518; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 08:36:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk ([193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87Ea5vj003967 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 08:36:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i87Eaga15029.; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 15:36:42 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 07 Sep 2004 15:35:27 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 15:35:11 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 19th century underwear Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think the Biblical injunction is against wearing the clothing of the opposite sex in general rather than specifically mentioning trousers, which I doubt were everyday wear among the ancient Israelites! Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> rmitchell@washjeff.edu 07/09/2004 15:29:07 >>> Re the Bible injunction, no one has mentioned the whole raillery about women wearing 'bifurcated garments' at all! quoting Katie "Women didn't wear drawers because the Bible forbade women wearing pants. " _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 7 11:03:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i87F36Lu015033 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 11:03:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87F254d026906 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Sep 2004 09:02:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87F1uvj022095; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 09:01:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87F0Evj020834 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 09:00:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brujne@creighton.edu) Received: from cindyabel (cla53081.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA19016 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 10:00:04 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Vanity Fair Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 09:58:24 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The Regency look was slim....compared to the look of the last previous centuries, but slim and thin enough by present-day standards. There were a few women who went to what was considered then extreme, copying the ideal ancient Grecian woman look: chilton, sandals, and hairstyle with maybe what we would term a flesh-colored bodystocking underneath(or not)and a very expensive imported cashmere shawl for warmth but that look was worn by a very few, mostly in France during the Directorie and Consulate(1795-1800). In fact, the ideal was a well-rounded figure, neither too fat nor too thin(the latter today's ideal. By the Regency period(1811-1820)the narrow line was expanding to wider skirts and sleeves, and especially in England, use of more vivid colors, and additions to the basic dress shape both(pseudo)historic and new fashions in accessories, given names that reflected military influences and England's far-flung Empire. Corsets were back (in) as well as at least a chemise under the corset(still called stays), at least one petticoat, stockings and footwear. The very thin could strive for the ideal look with "improvers" for bust, backside, and even abdominal area as the still above the natural waist waistline's skirt was supposed to flow "naturally" not hang limply down. I saw the movie Saturday. It was really good and the costumes wonderful. There has been some critical carping over not being totally faithful to the novel and the actor that plays George hairstyle, but there were some men's hairstyles during the period 1795-1825 that were close to this and military men in England did not have a required cut in the higher ranks. It is over two hours long, but doesn't feel it and no one at the showing I went to(early afternoon) left their seats, although there was a mad dash by some for the Ladies' restroom at its conclusion as most of us had large and jumbo drinks due to the heat and humidity outside. Really torture to go back out into the heat and an informal discussion of the costumes--the younger girls especially were suprised at the fact you didn't have to be stick thin to look good in Regency fashion. Two high-school age girls were wondering if they could get/make prom dresses like some of Becky's costumes. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 7 11:41:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i87Ff5t2015185 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 11:41:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87FeE4d001144 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Sep 2004 09:40:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87Fe9vj049528; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 09:40:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav24.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.81]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87Fe4vj049393 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 09:40:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 08:39:58 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by bay9-dav24.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 07 Sep 2004 15:39:58 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <005301c49227$9af5db00$6a8e059a@bc.hsia.telus.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Montreal Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 11:39:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Sep 2004 15:39:58.0683 (UTC) FILETIME=[EE7392B0:01C494F0] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You want to go on St-Hubert street, just north of Jean-Talon. If you want buttons and similar findings, there is also a place called Rix Rax. I could find the address for you if you're interested. There are no real good fabric shops that I know of, I usually shop online, but if you hear of a good one let me know! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edith Reardon" To: Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 10:33 PM Subject: [h-cost] Montreal Okay, I have finally booked our airfare and need a list of fabric shops to shop at in Montreal. Where, hours?? any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Brin Kendall _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 7 12:00:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i87G0BQc015271 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 12:00:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87FxD4d003562 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Sep 2004 09:59:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87Fx8vj063187; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 09:59:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.uttyl.edu (mail.uttyler.edu [198.213.56.77]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87Fx4vj063062 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 09:59:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Vicki_Betts@mail.uttyl.edu) In-Reply-To: <00ad01c494e7$08f75680$675183d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 19th century underwear To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 6.5.2 June 01, 2004 Message-ID: From: Vicki_Betts@mail.uttyl.edu Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 11:03:28 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on UT Tyler Admin/UT Tyler(Release 6.5.2|June 01, 2004) at 09/07/2004 11:02:51 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It was not only frowned upon, it was against the law for women to wear pants in many American cities during the 1860s. I've run across newspaper articles about quite a few women getting hauled into court and fined the rough equivalent of a week's pay ($6-$10 in Memphis) for daring to wear pants, unless they had military orders proving that they were vivandieres. Full "bloomer" reform dress, with the short skirt, just seemed to attract ridicule, however. I've mainly seen that attire associated with the North. Vicki Betts vbetts@gower.net Re the Bible injunction, no one has mentioned the whole raillery about women wearing 'bifurcated garments' at all! There are many references in 19th C magazines that discuss the propriety of wearing pants/trowsers/drawers if one is a woman. I thing it is Cunnington that mentions that no lady would demean herself by so doing. This attitude did not change until after the 1860s, but the issue of bifurcated garments continues to get bad press. Kathleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 7 12:10:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i87GA2VT015316 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 12:10:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87G9K4d004745 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Sep 2004 10:09:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87G9Evj070662; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 10:09:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m25.mx.aol.com (imo-m25.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87G9Cvj070577 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 10:09:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.4.) id 6.1d2.2a4b7d03 (4246) for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 12:09:05 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <1d2.2a4b7d03.2e6f3721@aol.com> Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 12:09:05 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Vanity Fair To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5031 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/7/2004 11:02:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, brujne@creighton.edu writes: Two high-school age girls were wondering if they could get/make prom dresses like some of Becky's costumes. Now there's a thought! But goodness knows if they will still feel that way next spring (maybe for Fall homecoming, though, if anyone still does formal?) While it is certainly not authentic enough for historic interpreters, the Butterick pattern (6630) would be just fine for prom dresses. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 7 13:18:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i87HIbdr015771 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 13:18:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87HHc4d012644 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Sep 2004 11:17:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87HHWvj022904; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 11:17:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87HHRvk022846 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 11:17:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-210.sonic.net [209.148.112.210]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i87HHPMP011517 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 10:17:26 -0700 Message-ID: <413DED49.5020200@lavoltapress.com> Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 10:18:01 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval re-enactment organizations References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin, Deleted your last message but anyway: You asked for marketing help. I've worked in book and magazine publishing my entire adult life and have run my own business for 11 years publishing and selling books to the costuming community, so thought you might appreciate mine. Broadcasts for help on the net don't always retrieve it in the exact form requested! If mine is of no use to you, ignore it. As for the marketing research, this is something I've been thinking about lately. It is entry-level assistant work, not the interesting part of a marketing campaign. I've done a tremendous amount of it for each book. I never had to do it when working for other book publishers. The marketing department did it. Nor did I do things like page layout--the production department did all that. In fact for years I never had to do things like proofreading or copyediting. That was what the junior editors and editorial assistants who worked on my projects were for. Now I get to do it all. I wouldn't give up the business because not only can I publish books exactly the way I want to, and make all the decisions--I also make more money. Two publishers were interested in my first book; one offered a contract very persistently. I turned them down when I crunched the numbers and realized I could make more money as a publisher than as an author on a royalty basis. And that since I'd worked my entire career in publishing, I already had the expertise to do, learn, or hire out any additional tasks. The first book sold well from the beginning. The business has been profitable for years, so I've never seen any need to find other publishers for the other five books I published. Nor any books I plan in future. Considering that the historic costume/clothing books market is a small, well-defined niche, it's debatable as to whether a large publisher would sell significantly more books. Some new tasks I took on have turned out to be fun. Particularly book and cover design, which I do together with my husband; it's great working closely together. I've gotten very good at certain types of graphics (image) editing. Also page layout is fun, partly because I custom design each page (within the design framework we previously set up) and partly because after months of graphics editing, I finally see the whole book come together. It's just that I'm reaching a bottleneck where, for the business to grow, sooner or later I'll have to hire an editorial/marketing assistant. Considering I want to keep on making the decisions, and I'm a perfectionist about quality, I'd wonder if anyone else would really want to take on the grunt work. I suppose I was an editorial assistant in my first job, and that was fun because I was a beginner and learning. I'm putting off the evil day as long as possible, though. Maybe I could hire freelance assistants for a few weeks just for marketing pushes. I've hired freelance translators and illustrators, and that worked well. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming Two new books on 1870s and 1880s clothes! http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 7 13:54:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i87Hs2xA015856 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 13:54:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87HrC4d017219 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Sep 2004 11:53:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87Hq9vj050249; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 11:52:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87HoRvj048880 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 11:50:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02818 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 12:57:20 -0500 Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 12:57:19 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval re-enactment organizations In-Reply-To: <413DED49.5020200@lavoltapress.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 7 Sep 2004, Lavolta Press wrote: > You asked for marketing help. I've worked in book and magazine > publishing my entire adult life and have run my own business for 11 > years publishing and selling books to the costuming community, so > thought you might appreciate mine. Broadcasts for help on the net > don't always retrieve it in the exact form requested! If mine is of > no use to you, ignore it. Well, actually, I asked for names of two particular kinds of organizations that I thought people on this list might be likely to know. I also explained why I was asking (because I knew people would wonder, and some would ask!). But apparently that came across to you as a broader request than I intended. I do apologize if I wasn't clear. All your advice would have been on-target if I were marketing my own book (and were new to the task), and would have been very much appreciated in that instance. I just felt bad that you were spending so much time helpfully outlining details of marketing basics that I didn't need for this particular effort (and, in my case, already know from experience, though you wouldn't have known that till I told you). I don't want to seem ungrateful; I really was trying to forestall you from extra effort, which I know was meant well and was very generous of you. Moving on to your other discussion, about the quandary of doing-it-all vs. hiring out (with possible effects on control and quality): I sympathize! I'm used to the being on the editor/publisher side, so this experience on the "author" side has been odd for me; I keep wanting to do more than my publisher expects. On the one hand they're delighted that I'm sending clean copy and other useful material; on the other hand, I'm taking on more of a burden and need to keep reminding myself, "No, that bit is their job!" If you do decide to expand, I know that there are plenty of editors and other publishing professionals out there, working freelance, who would be interested in taking some of that burden from you if you decide to either hire or contract out, even at a fairly low rate. Contracting specific time-consuming tasks might be the way to go; that would free you up for more of the variable tasks that you want to keep your own hand on. It would also allow you to find the right person for each of several varied tasks (e.g. editing, indexing, marketing, whatever you decide to segment out) rather than the (impossible?) task of finding one assistant who would have to either know or learn all of these things. Alas, cloning oneself would probably be too expensive, if it weren't illegal ;-) If you come to a point of wanting to contract out work, feel free to contact me directly; I participate in a number of networks of freelancers in various publishing skills, and I can point you to some good places to make a posting (and in some cases, can make personal recommendations). Hmm, I think this has gotten way far away from costuming. Sorry... --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 7 14:11:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i87IBEMU015928 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 14:11:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87IA64d019332 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Sep 2004 12:10:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87I9svj064141; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 12:09:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87I9ivj063916 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 12:09:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (c-24-21-147-231.client.comcast.net [24.21.147.231]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i87I9Yq11437 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 14:09:34 -0400 Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 11:15:17 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume/textile organizations: Did I miss any? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello, You might consider the Textile Conservation Centre in Winchester, UK. I attended their conference this summer and think they might be interested in the topic of your journal. Althea On Sunday, September 5, 2004, at 09:22 PM, Robin Netherton wrote: > > Hi, folks. Many of you may recall that I'm editing a new academic > journal, > Medieval Clothing & Textiles. The first volume is in production now, > and > I'm responding to some questions from the publisher's marketing > department. > > One of the things the publisher asked for is a list of the various > organizations that should receive announcements for publication in > their > newsletters (and, in some cases, review copies for their journals). > I've > put together a sizable list -- there are a surprising lot of dress and > textile organizations out there! -- but of course there's a good chance > I've missed someone. So, I'd like to run it past you folks to see if > you > can spot the gaps. > > Please note that I am looking for academic or scholarly organizations > that > have a significant interest in costume and textile topics and/or > medieval > material culture. I am not looking for individual academic programs, > universities, or experts -- I'm looking for the professional > organizations > those people would belong to. I'm particularly interested in European > organizations and journals, as I know only the UK-based ones. > > Also, please note that this list does *not* include re-enactment > organizations; see my next message for that. > > Here's what I've got: > > UK/Europe: > Costume Society of Great Britain (journal: Costume) > Medieval Dress and Textiles Society (MEDATS) > North European Symposium for Archaeological Textiles (NESAT) > Pasold Research Fund (journal: Textile History) > Textile Society (journal: Text) > Archaeological Textiles Newsletter > Dyes in History and Archaeology > Monumental Brass Society > > US/Canada: > DISTAFF > Costume Society of America > Costume Society of Ontario > Textile Society of America > Group for Costume and Textile Staff in Museums > AVISTA > International Costume Guild > Medieval Textile Study Group of the Complex Weavers' Guild > U.S. Institute of Theater Technology > > So, what did I miss? > > One particular request: Is there an organization or study group that > serves students/scholars working in historical embroidery? I think I've > got the right one for medieval weaving techniques, but I don't know if > there are equivalents in other fiber arts. We have a strong article on > early medieval embroidery in this volume, so I really want to contact > people in that field. > > Next question: Can anyone name major conferences that would reach our > target audience, *other than* Kalamazoo, Leeds, MLA, and the meetings > of > the groups named above? Would Convergence be a good place to make this > journal available? (If so, where can I get information on it?) Any > others? > > Thanks all! > > --Robin > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com Public Relations Manager Sauron/Voldemort 2004 Bush/Cheney - Bringing Bigotry back to the Constitution. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 7 14:26:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i87IQOZb016026 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 14:26:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87IPX4d021130 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Sep 2004 12:25:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87IPWvj075638; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 12:25:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87IPPvj075551 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 12:25:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03157 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 13:32:21 -0500 Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 13:32:20 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume/textile organizations: Did I miss any? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Whoops, that was meant to go to Althea, not as an out-of-context one-liner to the list. --Robin, wasting more bandwidth with this post On Tue, 7 Sep 2004, Robin Netherton wrote: > Oooh, thanks. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 7 15:26:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i87JQrAX016611 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 15:26:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87JPj4d027724 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Sep 2004 13:25:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87JPdvj020426; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 13:25:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87JPYvk020355 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 13:25:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-253.sonic.net [209.148.112.253]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i87JPWFJ016815 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 12:25:33 -0700 Message-ID: <413E0B50.7000806@lavoltapress.com> Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 12:26:08 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval re-enactment organizations References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >All your advice would have been on-target if I were marketing my own book >(and were new to the task) > Or any book, particularly as book publishers are shuffling off increasing amounts of marketing work onto authors. And for that matter, increasing amounts of editorial and production work. For no extra royalties. Many authors are deciding if the only thing the publisher is doing is paying the printer, they might as well hire the printer themselves and get all the revenues. > >Moving on to your other discussion, about the quandary of doing-it-all vs. >hiring out (with possible effects on control and quality): I sympathize! >I'm used to the being on the editor/publisher side, so this experience on >the "author" side has been odd for me; I keep wanting to do more than my >publisher expects. > It's hard to believe that any author _can_ do more than a publisher expects. > >If you do decide to expand, I know that there are plenty of editors and >other publishing professionals out there, working freelance, who would be >interested in taking some of that burden from you if you decide to either >hire or contract out, even at a fairly low rate. > I know. We're still getting almost daily responses to a net ad we posted for a translator for the German part of _Fashions of the Gilded Age_. At least two years ago. Probably people have been circulating it on their own and don't know how old it is. But still. > Contracting specific >time-consuming tasks might be the way to go; that would free you up for >more of the variable tasks that you want to keep your own hand on. > Right at the top of my list is (a) searching websites for marketing data and (b) entering marketing data for directories. > It >would also allow you to find the right person for each of several varied >tasks (e.g. editing, indexing, marketing, whatever you decide to segment >out) > I wouldn't want to farm out editorial work, except maybe some proofing. But it wouldn't be hard to find someone who would do a combination of entry-level marketing assistant work and editorial assistant work. At least when I was starting out, there were plenty of people willing to do almost anything to get some publishing experience on the resume. >rather than the (impossible?) task of finding one assistant who would >have to either know or learn all of these things. > It's all basic stuff. But I'd have to set up an office for the person, get them hardware and software and so on, and conform carefully to employment regulations. Either than or hire a freelancer long distance. And I'd have to let go of some responsibility, which I'm not used to any more. > >If you come to a point of wanting to contract out work, feel free to >contact me directly; I participate in a number of networks of freelancers >in various publishing skills, and I can point you to some good places to >make a posting (and in some cases, can make personal recommendations). > > > > I'm very well plugged into the professional publishing community, including knowing where to find various freelancers. It's a question of whether I'm ready to hire someone. Or whether I have to do it at some point whether I feel ready or not. I'll probably wind up looking for someone who is dedicated to become a publishing professional and wants some training. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 7 15:31:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i87JV29e016622 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 15:31:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87IOa4d021013 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Sep 2004 12:24:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87IOWvj074936; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 12:24:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87IOQvj074862 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 12:24:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03125 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 13:31:22 -0500 Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 13:31:20 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume/textile organizations: Did I miss any? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oooh, thanks. ========================================================== Robin Netherton // Editor at Large robin@nightowl.net voice: (314) 439-1222 // fax: (314) 439-1333 Life is just a bowl of queries. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 7 16:09:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i87K9iPb016821 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 16:09:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87K8q4d002530 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Sep 2004 14:08:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87K8kvj053433; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 14:08:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87K8gvj053229 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 14:08:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fd1.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.209]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 38E4947FE7C for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 22:08:28 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000701c49516$7e5008d0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 22:08:51 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] current and future work? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, just curious about what your projekts will be for the next months. Autumn and winter is here, so i have got my plans ready now. Friday next week, i expect to be finished with the danish courtdress, and i shall travel to the manorhouse to deliver and set up the dress in front of the portrait. Promise to post pictures when i have come that far. Then today i ordered natural coloured silk chenille from Aurora because i am going to dye some chenille threads for this winter projekt, an embroidered sackdress in pale yellow silk taffeta. After original dress in the Kyoto book. This is for Alexia.................. I also expect to have yeat a new embroidered stomacher finished after the old pattern books wich i find unlimited inspirations from. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 7 16:34:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i87KYxK8016903 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 16:34:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87KY44d005479 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Sep 2004 14:34:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87KXSvj072407; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 14:33:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (chori.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87KWMvj071608 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 14:32:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ldownward@chori.org) X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Sophos http://raeinternet.com/mpp Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP-TLS id 1377670 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Sep 2004 13:32:13 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.0.0.040405 Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 13:32:11 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000701c49516$7e5008d0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Bjarne, I can't wait to see the photos of your work in situ. I for one am working on two german women's outfits from 1545-60. Mine is almost complete and my daughter's outfit is cut out. The colors are so close that I want to finish one before I start the other so I don't mix parts. To complete the kit, I have three heavy woolen cassocks to make (the extra for my husband), two hats and two gollars. These need to be finished by the 25th. And I want to thank everyone on this list for all your help, leads and links to artwork of the time when I asked last month. It all was very useful. Then I work on Victorian - a gentleman's frock coat and waistcoat, a girl street urchin's outfit (and thanks for the hints on distressing) and a shop woman's outfit to be completed by mid-November. I'd also like to get the muslin for a bustle outfit together by Christmas. Then to finish up the men's Germans in time for mid-January. If I get it all done it'll be a miracle. The only fudge space is that bustle gown; everything else has to get done. LynnD > From: Bjarne og Leif Drews > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 22:08:51 +0200 > To: > Subject: [h-cost] current and future work? > > Hi, just curious about what your projekts will be for the next months. > Autumn and winter is here, so i have got my plans ready now. > Friday next week, i expect to be finished with the danish courtdress, and i > shall travel to the manorhouse to deliver and set up the dress in front of > the portrait. Promise to post pictures when i have come that far. > Then today i ordered natural coloured silk chenille from Aurora because i am > going to dye some chenille threads for this winter projekt, an embroidered > sackdress in pale yellow silk taffeta. After original dress in the Kyoto > book. This is for Alexia.................. > I also expect to have yeat a new embroidered stomacher finished after the > old pattern books wich i find unlimited inspirations from. > > Bjarne > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 7 16:57:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i87KvcZw017165 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 16:57:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87Kpx4d007831 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Sep 2004 14:52:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87Kptvj087147; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 14:51:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web50406.mail.yahoo.com (web50406.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i87Kprvj087038 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 14:51:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dragonwolfcat@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040907205147.70136.qmail@web50406.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [146.82.36.102] by web50406.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 07 Sep 2004 13:51:47 PDT Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 13:51:47 -0700 (PDT) From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Medieval re-enactment organizations To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin, I don't have much to add to your organization list. I'm just watching for the announcements and saving pennies to hopefully afford my own copy! Angharad / Wolfcat who will be counting to see how many email notifications I get via the lists *lol* _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now. http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 7 19:39:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i87NdXII017809 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 19:39:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87Ncm4d024672 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Sep 2004 17:38:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87Ncevj006009; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 17:38:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.67]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i87Ncbvj005939 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 17:38:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dannw@lycos.com) Received: from wfilter.us4.outblaze.com (wfilter.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.180]) by webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix) with QMQP id 17C121801276 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 23:38:32 +0000 (GMT) X-OB-Received: from unknown (208.36.123.30) by wfilter.us4.outblaze.com; 7 Sep 2004 23:38:32 -0000 Received: by ws7-1.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id EBE1C86AE9; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 23:38:31 +0000 (GMT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Received: from [130.88.96.65] by ws7-1.us4.outblaze.com with http for dannw@lycos.com; Tue, 07 Sep 2004 23:38:31 +0000 From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 23:38:31 +0000 Subject: pads etc...Re: [h-cost] PS on underwear X-Originating-Ip: 130.88.96.65 X-Originating-Server: ws7-1.us4.outblaze.com Message-Id: <20040907233831.EBE1C86AE9@ws7-1.us4.outblaze.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: Robin Netherton > I opened up a new brand of pad this month and was astounded to find that > the wings sealed not with adhesive strips, but with *velcro.* > > --Robin I tried an eco-friendly method for awhile with cotton fleece and flannel pads with velcro which were supposed to be soaked then washed for reuse - one of the biggest problems I had with the method (I evenutally gave up on it) was the velcro mangled your underwear very quickly. So, I'm not sure that is a step in the right direction, unless they have a conspiracy with underwear manufacturers... Cheers, Danielle -- _______________________________________________ Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 7 20:05:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8805fZo017888 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 20:05:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8804x4d026631 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Sep 2004 18:04:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8804uvj020012; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 18:04:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.67]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8804qvj019928 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 18:04:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from katie_lewis@lycos.com) Received: from wfilter.us4.outblaze.com (wfilter.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.180]) by webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix) with QMQP id 9478A180124A for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 00:04:46 +0000 (GMT) X-OB-Received: from unknown (208.36.123.32) by wfilter.us4.outblaze.com; 8 Sep 2004 00:04:46 -0000 Received: by ws7-3.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 5C9423384B; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 00:04:46 +0000 (GMT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Received: from [129.219.81.42] by ws7-3.us4.outblaze.com with http for katie_lewis@lycos.com; Tue, 07 Sep 2004 19:04:46 -0500 From: katie_lewis@lycos.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 19:04:46 -0500 Subject: Re: pads etc...Re: [h-cost] PS on underwear X-Originating-Ip: 129.219.81.42 X-Originating-Server: ws7-3.us4.outblaze.com Message-Id: <20040908000446.5C9423384B@ws7-3.us4.outblaze.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 23:38:31 +0000 To: "Historical Costume" Subject: pads etc...Re: [h-cost] PS on underwear > > --Robin > > I tried an eco-friendly method for awhile with cotton fleece and flannel pads with velcro which were supposed to be soaked then washed for reuse - one of the biggest problems I had with the method (I evenutally gave up on it) was the velcro mangled your underwear very quickly. If you have any intrest in trying a eco-friendly method, might I suggest using snaps. Many Moons Alternatives has a pattern online that makes up very quickly. -Katie Xander: You up for a little reconnaissance? Buffy: You mean where we all sculpt and paint and stuff? Xander: No, that was the Renaissance. -- _______________________________________________ Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 7 20:31:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i880VlBm017991 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 20:31:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i880Q44d028036 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Sep 2004 18:26:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i880Q2vj031465; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 18:26:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i880Q0vj031428 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 18:26:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m210.in-tch.com [216.166.191.210]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i880PD820114 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 18:25:13 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <413E5297.3030809@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 18:30:15 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? References: <000701c49516$7e5008d0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <000701c49516$7e5008d0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mmmmm...good question! I have a huge "to-do" list for the coming cold & dark months. While it's still relatively warm, I'm doing lots of fiber prep (madder dyeing done, cochineal & indigo & yellow something still to go--all wool yarns for 16th c. stockings), and there's a romney fleece I really should clean, so I can card it and spin it this winter. I'm practicing my linen spinning--getting a good, fine thread, but having trouble with the distaff. This winter, I'll be tackling the following: knitted wool stockings in dark madder red, orange (madder exhaust bath), indigo blue, green (indigo over something yellow), and "venetian red" (cochineal). lots of spinning for future weaving projects (mostly fine wool singles) finishing my never-ending camicia (14 stripes done, 6 to go! woo-hoo!) and a couple of outfits, even: a hand-sewn 10th c. norse outfit (hence the use of the linen thread) a 16th c. Flemish outfit and if I've got free time, I'll work on: the poor neglected pieces of my 17th c. colonial outfit and a couple of pieced quilts --sue Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi, just curious about what your projekts will be for the next months. > Autumn and winter is here, so i have got my plans ready now. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 7 20:47:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i880lJ3M018042 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 20:47:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i880kc4d029398 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Sep 2004 18:46:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i880kZvj042417; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 18:46:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i880kWvk042395 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 18:46:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i880oUl6031808 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 20:50:30 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] PS on underwear Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 20:56:15 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200409072056.15648.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 07 September 2004 1:26 am, Robin Netherton wrote: > On Mon, 6 Sep 2004, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > > Agreed. I *hated* the belt and pad set up. Fortunately, the pads you > > stick on the crotch of your underwear were invented shortly after I > > began menstruating. > > Back in the belt-and-pad days, I learned early on how to approximate that > effect. Then (as now, still, in some places) if you got caught without > supplies while out of the house, you'd find a public ladies' room and pop > some money into a machine to get a box with a pad in it. If you were > already wearing a belt and pad, you could just swap out the pad on your > own belt, but if you were just starting your period, you probably wouldn't > have a belt with you. So, in the box with the pad, there were two safety > pins, so you could pin the ends of the pad to your underwear. I tried that too. I found it better than the belt and pad arrangement, though not much. -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 7 21:01:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8811vX7018095 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 21:01:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8811A4d000574 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Sep 2004 19:01:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88119vj049537; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 19:01:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net (blount.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.226]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88117vj049526 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 19:01:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kerowyn@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-4.245.73.31.dial1.stlouis1.level3.net ([4.245.73.31] helo=Dan) by blount.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1C4qpe-0006hC-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Sep 2004 21:01:07 -0400 Message-ID: <009c01c49540$2be3a000$c214f504@Dan> From: "Genie" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simplicity patterns Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 20:07:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The main reason they pulled the pattern was the picture, not the garment. They used an actor for the two patterns and the guy's agent suddenly decided he should be paid a fee for every copy of the picture. Heard this one at CC in Atlanta this spring from Andrea Schew no less. Snow fallen on snow, and this evening, the full moon of November Basho ----- Original Message ----- From: "otsisto" To: "Historic Costume" Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 12:58 AM Subject: [h-cost] Simplicity patterns > http://www.simplicity.com/index.cfm?page=comments.cfm > > Perhaps if enough of us inquire as to the possibility of a return of certain > patterns they may re-issue them or make a revamp of it. > I have seen on this list and another costume list people wanting Simplicity > pattern #8725, the sideless surcote costume. And this is the second time I > have heard someone looking for #9633. > The above url is to Simplicity comments and feedback site. I have already > put in inquiries about the two aforementioned patterns. Now I just have to > wait and see what they have to say. > > De > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 7 21:02:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8812O1a018098 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 21:02:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8811f4d000630 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Sep 2004 19:01:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8811cvj049791; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 19:01:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8811Mvj049613 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 19:01:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06039 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 20:08:18 -0500 Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 20:08:16 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: pads etc...Re: [h-cost] PS on underwear In-Reply-To: <20040907233831.EBE1C86AE9@ws7-1.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 7 Sep 2004, Danielle Nunn-Weinberg wrote: > > I opened up a new brand of pad this month and was astounded to find that > > the wings sealed not with adhesive strips, but with *velcro.* > > I tried an eco-friendly method for awhile with cotton fleece and > flannel pads with velcro which were supposed to be soaked then washed > for reuse - one of the biggest problems I had with the method (I > evenutally gave up on it) was the velcro mangled your underwear very > quickly. So, I'm not sure that is a step in the right direction, > unless they have a conspiracy with underwear manufacturers... My experience so far is that the velcro can easily stray to my inner thighs -- ouch. I suspect this will be another marketing idea-that-failed, as I do for one not intend to buy these again. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 7 22:14:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i882E1w9018345 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 22:14:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i882DB4d006073 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Sep 2004 20:13:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i882D6vj084805; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 20:13:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.204]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i882D3vj084779 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 20:13:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jacquelinejbump@gmail.com) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 77so527302rnk for ; Tue, 07 Sep 2004 19:13:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.75.73 with SMTP id x73mr2408318rna; Tue, 07 Sep 2004 19:13:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.163.79 with HTTP; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 19:13:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4c5accc804090719131752fd57@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 22:13:03 -0400 From: Kristalori History To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: pads etc...Re: [h-cost] PS on underwear In-Reply-To: <20040908000446.5C9423384B@ws7-3.us4.outblaze.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20040908000446.5C9423384B@ws7-3.us4.outblaze.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I make the ones with snaps myself and used to even sell them off my website. They are really neat. On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 19:04:46 -0500, katie_lewis@lycos.com > If you have any intrest in trying a eco-friendly method, might I suggest using snaps. Many Moons Alternatives has a pattern online that makes up > very quickly. > > -Katie -- "Pardon me, Lady Tudor Glitz, but telling people things aren't period isn't period." Italian Ladies 2005 Calendar http://www.lulu.com/kristalori _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 7 23:39:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i883d7wR019417 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 23:39:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i883cM4d011404 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Sep 2004 21:38:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i883cEvj026341; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 21:38:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i883cBvj026288 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 21:38:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-164.cvip.net [129.8.205.164]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 658F7345FD for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 20:38:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040907202723.024950c0@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 20:38:07 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] simplicity Henry 8 pattern In-Reply-To: <200409061745.i86HjvPn001533@sabre.goldsword.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 01:45 PM 9/6/2004 -0400, you wrote: >forgive me if this is not the proper forum -- but I'd like to find the >two Henry VIII patterns that Simplicity did 9650 and 9633 but they are >long out of print. Does anybody know where I might get these? > >Thanks, >susan (mom to the child who wants one!) Hi Susan, I have the two Henry VIII patterns, but they are designed for really big men (my husband would wear a small!!, and his waist is 46"). So, when you say you want one for your child, is he a really large child? I have also seen other Henry style patterns on eBay, like this one from Period Patterns/Medieval Miscellanea: http://www.mediaevalmisc.com/pp51-53.htm (bottom of the page). Those PP/MM patterns are not for beginners, but the pattern and style is a lot more period appropriate than the Simplicity ones. While I have the Simplicity ones, I decided to make my own pattern for the doublet and base, as they just not very period at all. The great coat I think works better, but that will be made later, when it gets colder around here. Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 8 00:16:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i884G3ev019926 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 00:16:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i884AL4d013717 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Sep 2004 22:10:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i884AFvj041571; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 22:10:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from lakermmtao02.cox.net (lakermmtao02.cox.net [68.230.240.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i884A9vj041467 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 22:10:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyanne@quik.com) Received: from gary4lna2lrlna ([68.109.6.186]) by lakermmtao02.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.02.01 201-2131-111-104-103-20040709) with ESMTP id <20040908041001.FAOB7911.lakermmtao02.cox.net@gary4lna2lrlna> for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 00:10:01 -0400 From: "Anne Moeller" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Medieval re-enactment organizations Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 00:10:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Thread-Index: AcSVBtdv8Hlkc653QC2Oe3ncCv88AwAUrWRw Message-Id: <20040908041001.FAOB7911.lakermmtao02.cox.net@gary4lna2lrlna> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Can anyone give me information on signing up for the lecture Robin is giving Oct. 16 in D.C. Thanks , Anne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 8 00:33:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i884XlVe020114 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 00:33:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i884Wx4d014968 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Sep 2004 22:33:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i884Wtvj052341; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 22:32:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i884Wsvj052322 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 22:32:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA07488; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 23:39:51 -0500 Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 23:39:50 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20040908041001.FAOB7911.lakermmtao02.cox.net@gary4lna2lrlna> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: ladyanne@quik.com Subject: [h-cost] Lecture (was: something else) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wed, 8 Sep 2004, Anne Moeller wrote: > Can anyone give me information on signing up for the lecture Robin is > giving Oct. 16 in D.C. Thanks , Anne Go here: http://www.oakenstaff.com/netherton/ --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 8 01:16:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i885GnsG020231 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 01:16:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i885F94d017733 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Sep 2004 23:15:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i885F5vj071357; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 23:15:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm01.prodigy.net (ylpvm01-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i885F2vj071329 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 23:15:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema (adsl-69-107-77-43.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.77.43]) by ylpvm01.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with SMTP id i885EuL0010134 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 01:14:58 -0400 Message-Id: <4.1.20040907182012.01a486f0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 21:55:02 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? In-Reply-To: <000701c49516$7e5008d0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Hi, just curious about what your projekts will be for the next months. The other Northern California Ren. Fair starts in a couple of weeks, and I need to refurbish my old dress, which is wearing out. Then I need to do something for Dickens' Fair, because I have a new character this year, and Dickens starts at the end of November. I need to make two dolls I will be giving their new owners this Friday, and another one due next Tuesday, for a show. I have started none of these, having just returned from being a staff member at a four day fantasy/science fiction convention. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 8 06:26:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i88AQDXP020020 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 06:26:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88APN4d002741 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Sep 2004 04:25:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88APCvj002289; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 04:25:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88AP4vj002182 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 04:25:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.145.183]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i88AOofb021708 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 20:24:51 +1000 Message-ID: <008001c4958d$fb05b880$b791d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] PS on underwear Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 20:24:08 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Well, so long as we're HAVING this conversation -- yes, the safety pins were > MUCH better -- but as the belts we remember were so ill-designed (I > particularly hated the sort of girdle-clips to hold the pads, which were > just as likely to pinch skin, and of course the tendency of the whole pad to > migrate to a useless location or even flip over) can our foremothers have > put up with such a bad arrangement? Would it have taken much to improve it? > I always suspected the belt would be better if it weren't elastic -- though > that would interfere with mass production of the things. Maybe it's where > worn out narrow wares went to die...? Well I don't have any personal experience (though the other day I found a 19yr old friend had used the belt and pad and washing it out after use arrangement for a couple of years until she actually paid attention to what was available in the shops and started buying her own) It seems to me that simply having it attached at each corner would help (I get the impression that they only one clip/pin at either end) I also think elasticity is pretty important for ease of movement anything to hold something close to your crotch both when you are sitting and standing really needs at least some ability to stretch and spring back. Like I said I've got no experience with this (and I don't want to experiment) perhaps it is something other people are motivated to look into or even experiment with. If this was the way people still dealt with menstruation we'd almost certainly have at least one person pipe up about how they once experimented/used an emergency substitute etc. *g* Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra Australia ewalpole@austar.net.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 8 08:48:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i88Cml8C020656 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 08:48:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88Cm74d012226 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Sep 2004 06:48:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88Cm4vj064330; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 06:48:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com ([199.170.202.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88Cm2vj064292 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 06:48:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i88D8QTP013838 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 09:08:26 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: (from sfarmer@localhost) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3/Submit) id i88D8QOp013837 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 09:08:26 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 09:08:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Farmer Message-Id: <200409081308.i88D8QOp013837@sabre.goldsword.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] simplicity Henry 8 pattern In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20040907202723.024950c0@64.87.54.245> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > At 01:45 PM 9/6/2004 -0400, you wrote: > >forgive me if this is not the proper forum -- but I'd like to find the > >two Henry VIII patterns that Simplicity did 9650 and 9633 but they are > >long out of print. Does anybody know where I might get these? > > > >Thanks, > >susan (mom to the child who wants one!) > > > Hi Susan, > > I have the two Henry VIII patterns, but they are designed for really big > men (my husband would wear a small!!, and his waist is 46"). So, when you > say you want one for your child, is he a really large child? Naw. He's probably on the small side. He's 16 and wears a 15/32 dress shirt. I had been cruising ebay for quite some time hoping they would turn up; but I was able to purchase the set yesterday. Thanks all! Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 8 10:20:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i88EKQdi021073 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 10:20:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88EJH4d019059 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Sep 2004 08:19:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88EIrvj011332; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 08:18:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from lakermmtao09.cox.net (lakermmtao09.cox.net [68.230.240.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88EIpvj011243 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 08:18:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyanne@quik.com) Received: from gary4lna2lrlna ([68.109.6.186]) by lakermmtao09.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.02.01 201-2131-111-104-103-20040709) with ESMTP id <20040908141846.TGCF16771.lakermmtao09.cox.net@gary4lna2lrlna> for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 10:18:46 -0400 From: "Anne Moeller" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Lecture (was: something else) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 10:18:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Thread-Index: AcSVXsNX8JreAc9OSQO2cOWj0VinTgAT8Qaw Message-Id: <20040908141846.TGCF16771.lakermmtao09.cox.net@gary4lna2lrlna> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you. BTW is there any chance that the lecture will be scheduled any closer to the Norfolk/ Va. Beach area ? Anne -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Robin Netherton Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 12:40 AM To: Historical Costume Cc: ladyanne@quik.com Subject: [h-cost] Lecture (was: something else) On Wed, 8 Sep 2004, Anne Moeller wrote: > Can anyone give me information on signing up for the lecture Robin is > giving Oct. 16 in D.C. Thanks , Anne Go here: http://www.oakenstaff.com/netherton/ --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 8 10:24:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i88EONrA021112 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 10:24:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88ENR4d019384 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Sep 2004 08:23:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88ENQvj014098; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 08:23:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88ENNvj014076 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 08:23:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brujne@creighton.edu) Received: from cindyabel (cla53081.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA07811 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 09:23:22 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 09:21:35 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <009c01c49540$2be3a000$c214f504@Dan> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] New McCall's patterns X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO McCall's has four new historic patterns out--I believe JoAnn's has a $1.99 per pattern sale this weekend. I hope I have the pattern #'s correct. 4795--Man's Rennaissance Doublet with several variations. Seems to have the correct look--Probably good for getting the basic modern measurements and then purists can go to Janet Arnold's or other scale patterns to perfect the cut. 4796--Woman's Rennaissance bodices Less historically accurate than the Man's Doublet. But again, probably good for basic fit and then going from there. 4797--Woman's Civil War era Jacket with insert fake vest, skirt, and shawl cutting guide. Cut looks like it was taken perhaps from a real jacket possibly as all the seams look right. It also appears like actual wear, not taken from a fashion plate. Doesn't have helpful notes and comments, like Martha McCain's Simplicity patterns. Aside Query: Anyone know if Martha McCain will have more patterns for Simplicity out shortly for other historic eras? 4797--Woman's cloak--several views. Just your basic cloak with a hood like the Folkwear Kinsale cloak pattern--very full-cut hood with a self-ruffled front. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 8 10:36:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i88Ea9Og021185 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 10:36:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88EZ74d020284 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Sep 2004 08:35:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88EZ3vj021077; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 08:35:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web51401.mail.yahoo.com (web51401.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.180]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i88EYxvj020966 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 08:34:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ivycircle@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040908143454.69959.qmail@web51401.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.240.36.83] by web51401.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 08 Sep 2004 07:34:54 PDT Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 07:34:54 -0700 (PDT) From: ~Angelique To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200409080102.i8812Bvl050128@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Current and future projects X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am currently altering a tudor gable hat. I have a coif to blackwork in the more freeform Elizabethan style. Over the winter I am adding wool pieces to my closet (Mostly late Tudor)so I am cutting patterns like a madwoman so I have less to do when the fabric arrives. My husband is clamoring for some early Baroque so that will be my late winter/early spring as he has a touch too many doublets :-) ~Angelique --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 8 10:36:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i88EaPvu021188 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 10:36:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88EZf4d020332 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Sep 2004 08:35:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88EZfvj021506; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 08:35:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.250]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88EZ3vj021086 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 08:35:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from irmgart@gmail.com) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id q44so102281cwc for ; Wed, 08 Sep 2004 07:35:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.116.34 with SMTP id o34mr74125cwc; Wed, 08 Sep 2004 07:35:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.118.38 with HTTP; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 07:35:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 10:35:02 -0400 From: Irmgart Hasenschlaf To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] New McCall's patterns In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <009c01c49540$2be3a000$c214f504@Dan> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO very cool! I just looked on the mccalls site, though, and don't see any of those patterns :( -Irmgart On Wed, 8 Sep 2004 09:21:35 -0500, Cindy Abel wrote: > > > McCall's has four new historic patterns out--I believe JoAnn's has a $1.99 > per pattern sale this weekend. I hope I have the pattern #'s correct. > > 4795--Man's Rennaissance Doublet with several variations. Seems to have the > correct look--Probably good for getting the basic modern measurements and > then purists can go to Janet Arnold's or other scale patterns to perfect the > cut. > > 4796--Woman's Rennaissance bodices Less historically accurate than the Man's > Doublet. But again, probably good for basic fit and then going from there. > > 4797--Woman's Civil War era Jacket with insert fake vest, skirt, and shawl > cutting guide. Cut looks like it was taken perhaps from a real jacket > possibly as all the seams look right. It also appears like actual wear, not > taken from a fashion plate. Doesn't have helpful notes and comments, like > Martha McCain's Simplicity patterns. > > Aside Query: Anyone know if Martha McCain will have more patterns for > Simplicity out shortly for other historic eras? > > 4797--Woman's cloak--several views. Just your basic cloak with a hood like > the Folkwear Kinsale cloak pattern--very full-cut hood with a self-ruffled > front. > > Cindy Abel > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > -- Irmgart Hasenschlaf Canton of Buckston-on-Eno, Barony of Windmasters' Hill, Kingdom of Atlantia! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 8 10:41:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i88Efupr021204 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 10:41:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88Ef04d020837 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Sep 2004 08:41:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88Eevvj024816; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 08:40:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m16.mx.aol.com (imo-m16.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.206]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88Eepvj024702 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 08:40:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Theflamingneedle@aol.com) Received: from Theflamingneedle@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.4.) id 6.141.3320eb3b (17228) for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 10:40:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Theflamingneedle@aol.com Message-ID: <141.3320eb3b.2e7073e6@aol.com> Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 10:40:38 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] New McCall's patterns To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5032 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/8/04 9:23:48 AM Central Daylight Time, brujne@creighton.edu writes: McCall's has four new historic patterns out--I believe JoAnn's has a $1.99 per pattern sale this weekend. I hope I have the pattern #'s correct. For the person who had just written and said they could not locate the new patterns on McCalls' website - go to the "what's new" listings, the very last page. They're all there. **Tiff** eBay Selling ID: Reflections*of*Worth Historical Reproductions and Costumes "Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance." -Will Durant _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 8 10:50:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i88EoivS021244 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 10:50:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88Enp4d021539 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Sep 2004 08:49:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88Ennvj030530; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 08:49:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88Enhvj030425 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 08:49:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Theflamingneedle@aol.com) Received: from Theflamingneedle@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.4.) id 6.126.4a8301d1 (17228) for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 10:49:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Theflamingneedle@aol.com Message-ID: <126.4a8301d1.2e7075dc@aol.com> Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 10:49:00 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] New McCall's patterns To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5032 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/8/04 9:23:48 AM Central Daylight Time, brujne@creighton.edu writes: 4797--Woman's Civil War era Jacket with insert fake vest, skirt, and shawl cutting guide. Cut looks like it was taken perhaps from a real jacket possibly as all the seams look right. It also appears like actual wear, not taken from a fashion plate. Doesn't have helpful notes and comments, like Martha McCain's Simplicity patterns. The problem that I always have with the commercial CW era patterns is that they never get the dropped shoulders right. Universally (as universally as fashion ever gets, anyways) early 60's styles had the shoulders that hit past the ball of the shoulder, almost upper arm. Yet these patterns are determined to keep them up at the upper shoulder. Also, I've never seen a period garment (from the actual CW era) with that type of skirting/attached peplum. Waists generally ended at the waist. **Tiff** eBay Selling ID: Reflections*of*Worth Historical Reproductions and Costumes "Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance." -Will Durant _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 8 11:24:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i88FOqp8021432 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 11:24:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88FOC4d025041 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Sep 2004 09:24:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88FO7vj055035; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 09:24:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com ([199.170.202.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88FNxvj054895 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 09:24:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i88FiOTP015409 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 11:44:24 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: (from sfarmer@localhost) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3/Submit) id i88FiOWN015408 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 11:44:24 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 11:44:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Farmer Message-Id: <200409081544.i88FiOWN015408@sabre.goldsword.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] New McCall's patterns In-Reply-To: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > very cool! > > I just looked on the mccalls site, though, and don't see any of those > patterns :( As an aside -- I saw these patterns in the boot at Hancocks. Later that same day (and a weekend later), JoAnne's did not yet have the book that had these patterns in it. YMMV. Jerusha > On Wed, 8 Sep 2004 09:21:35 -0500, Cindy Abel wrote: > > > > > > McCall's has four new historic patterns out--I believe JoAnn's has a $1.99 > > per pattern sale this weekend. I hope I have the pattern #'s correct. According to my flier, the McCalls/Butterick sale is 16-18 September. Hancocks is having them the same weekend for $1.99 > > > > 4795--Man's Rennaissance Doublet with several variations. > > 4796--Woman's Rennaissance bodices > > 4797--Woman's Civil War era Jacket > > 4797--Woman's cloak--several views. > Susan/ Jerusha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 8 11:34:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i88FYYSS021518 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 11:34:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88FSt4d025548 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Sep 2004 09:28:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88FSpvj058871; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 09:28:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88FSlvj058792 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 09:28:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11774 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 10:35:45 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 10:35:44 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Lecture (was: something else) In-Reply-To: <20040908141846.TGCF16771.lakermmtao09.cox.net@gary4lna2lrlna> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wed, 8 Sep 2004, Anne Moeller wrote: > Thank you. BTW is there any chance that the lecture will be scheduled > any closer to the Norfolk/ Va. Beach area ? Anne That's the only appearance I'll be doing on that trip, and I don't have any other lectures on the calendar right now. I suspect that the DC appearance will be drawing from a sizable region, so I don't know whether there would be enough critical mass of attendees to make another visit to that general area feasible, at least in the near future. In general, I speak where I'm invited to speak; I don't set up my own appearances. If someone wants to organize a visit by me to speak in their area or at their event/institution, they're welcome to contact me to propose arrangements. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 8 12:07:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i88G7iwu022318 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 12:07:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88G6t4d000140 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Sep 2004 10:06:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88G6rvj088507; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 10:06:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f40.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88G6nvj088382 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 10:06:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 08:42:47 -0700 Received: from 129.244.6.162 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 08 Sep 2004 15:42:47 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.162] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 10:42:47 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Sep 2004 15:42:47.0625 (UTC) FILETIME=[7D8FD390:01C495BA] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Heel question (crossposted) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Over the weekend I was teaching a class on shoes and someone mentioned that they'd seen a note to a list (either this one, or Authentic SCA, or something very similar - I neglected to write it down) in which the writer said that they had seen evidence for 15th century heels. I've been looking for this message, but am not finding it. If anyone has any clue what I'm talking about, please let me know :) Marc/Diarmaid _________________________________________________________________ Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to School Guide! http://special.msn.com/network/04backtoschool.armx _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 8 12:10:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i88GAYuq022414 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 12:10:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88G9f4d000526 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Sep 2004 10:09:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88G9avj090712; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 10:09:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sm4app04.siteprotect.com (sm4app04.siteprotect.com [64.41.126.201]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88G9Qvj090572 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 10:09:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cschmitt@genteelarts.com) Received: from sm4app04.siteprotect.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sm4app04.siteprotect.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FC087D40 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 11:09:24 -0500 (CDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary Mime-Version: 1.0 From: To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] New McCall's patterns X-Mailer: SiteMail 4.02 X-Origin: 65.164.18.144 X-Uidl: 1264a8301d12e7075dc@aolcom Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 11:09:23 -0500 Message-Id: <20040908160924.3FC087D40@sm4app04.siteprotect.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wed Sep 8 9:49 , Theflamingneedle@aol.com sent: >The problem that I always have with the commercial CW era patterns is that they never get the dropped shoulders >right. Universally (as universally as fashion ever gets, anyways) early 60's styles had the shoulders that hit past >the ball of the shoulder, almost upper arm. Yet these patterns are determined to keep them up at the upper shoulder. I'm very hesitant to use "absolutes" when referring to period fashions, but I think the dropped armscye (shoulder) is an absolute must for early 1860s styles. This pattern (correct #4697) doesn't have it. >Also, I've never seen a period garment (from the actual CW era) with that type of skirting/attached peplum. Waists >generally ended at the waist. I've seen several examples of mid-19th century garments with the faux-vest effect (photographs, fashion plates and original garments). Some are achieved with the use of trims, others have a vest front attached to the side seams. But these have all been dresses or jackets, not a long coat like this one. And generally outergarments (paletots, pardeusseseus, etc.)from this period do not have a seam at the waistline. I also have an issue with the arrangement of the pleats and the location of the closure on the skirt. And the fabric requirements, especially for the skirt, seem excessive. This pattern may meet your needs for Dickens' Fair and similar events, but I don't recommend it for accurate historic clothing. Ms. McCain is a member of this list. Perhaps she can give us an update on any works in progress. Carolann Schmitt cschmitt@genteelarts.com www.genteelarts.com Ladies & Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference, March 3-6, 2005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 8 12:17:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i88GHpO5022730 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 12:17:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88GH94d001335 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Sep 2004 10:17:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88GH5vj097011; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 10:17:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88GH1vj096865 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 10:17:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.4.) id 6.fc.83ca5d (16335) for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 12:16:50 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 12:16:50 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] New McCall's patterns To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Every time I try to go to the McCall's site I just get "Web Site Not Responding" Screw it. I'll just draft my own patterns.... :-P _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 8 12:41:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i88Gfw6v023214 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 12:41:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88Gf74d003809 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Sep 2004 10:41:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88Gf2vj016874; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 10:41:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88Geuvj016725 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 10:40:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brujne@creighton.edu) Received: from cindyabel (cla53081.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA25103 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 11:40:49 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] New McCall's patterns Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 11:39:04 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Don't depend on the websites to see the latest patterns. I happened on the new McCall's pattern book Sunday at JoAnn's while heading for the 99 cent sale Simplicity patterns. Cindy Abel -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Irmgart Hasenschlaf Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 9:35 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] New McCall's patterns very cool! I just looked on the mccalls site, though, and don't see any of those patterns :( -Irmgart On Wed, 8 Sep 2004 09:21:35 -0500, Cindy Abel wrote: > > > McCall's has four new historic patterns out--I believe JoAnn's has a $1.99 > per pattern sale this weekend. I hope I have the pattern #'s correct. > > 4795--Man's Rennaissance Doublet with several variations. Seems to have the > correct look--Probably good for getting the basic modern measurements and > then purists can go to Janet Arnold's or other scale patterns to perfect the > cut. > > 4796--Woman's Rennaissance bodices Less historically accurate than the Man's > Doublet. But again, probably good for basic fit and then going from there. > > 4797--Woman's Civil War era Jacket with insert fake vest, skirt, and shawl > cutting guide. Cut looks like it was taken perhaps from a real jacket > possibly as all the seams look right. It also appears like actual wear, not > taken from a fashion plate. Doesn't have helpful notes and comments, like > Martha McCain's Simplicity patterns. > > Aside Query: Anyone know if Martha McCain will have more patterns for > Simplicity out shortly for other historic eras? > > 4797--Woman's cloak--several views. Just your basic cloak with a hood like > the Folkwear Kinsale cloak pattern--very full-cut hood with a self-ruffled > front. > > Cindy Abel > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > -- Irmgart Hasenschlaf Canton of Buckston-on-Eno, Barony of Windmasters' Hill, Kingdom of Atlantia! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 8 13:54:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i88Hs2k5024110 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 13:54:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88Hqw4d011983 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Sep 2004 11:52:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88HqKvj073719; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 11:52:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from priv-edtnes56.telusplanet.net (outbound01.telus.net [199.185.220.220]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88HqFvj073594 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 11:52:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from edieann@telus.net) Received: from moms ([154.5.142.106]) by priv-edtnes56.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.02 201-2131-111-104-20040324) with SMTP id <20040908175209.UOTH11652.priv-edtnes56.telusplanet.net@moms> for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 11:52:09 -0600 Message-ID: <000d01c495cd$c3323ba0$6a8e059a@bc.hsia.telus.net> From: "Edith Reardon" To: Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 11:00:44 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] montreal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i88Hs2k5024110 Status: RO I think I have my trip to Montreal planned. We will be there to view my husband's grandfathers photo exhibit from the turn of the century. If you want to see what a Romanian gypsy wore at the turn of the century there is a picture or there are pictures showing the women's favorite blouse. They tried to show off their best clothing and there are some children in the photo's. The main bulk of the photo's are still chinese and indian mine workers lots of levy pants. This exhibit has been touring Canada now for 3 yrs. and has some plans for touring the world. My scanners not working right now or I would offer to scan in some of the pictures for people interested. Brin Kendall _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 8 18:51:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i88Mp2tf025505 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 18:51:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88MoG4d015091 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Sep 2004 16:50:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88Mo29W000748; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 16:50:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ns3.linuxwebnet.com (ns3.linuxwebnet.com [216.133.76.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i88Mo09W000668 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 16:50:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from judymitch@oldwaylane.net) Received: (qmail 14860 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2004 23:23:01 -0000 Received: from dialup-4.249.153.204.dial1.washington2.level3.net (HELO oldwaylane.net) (4.249.153.204) by shada.com with SMTP; 8 Sep 2004 23:23:01 -0000 Message-ID: <413F88BB.3050700@oldwaylane.net> Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 18:33:31 -0400 From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] New McCall's patterns References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cindy Abel wrote: > Aside Query: Anyone know if Martha McCain will have more patterns for > Simplicity out shortly for other historic eras? From what I've been told by one of the other designers, don't expect anything for about a year. She's switching to American Rev War and is taking time to research. -Judy Mitchell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 8 19:53:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i88NrmgR026007 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 19:53:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88Nr84d020946 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Sep 2004 17:53:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88Nr49W041016; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 17:53:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i88Nr19W040992 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 17:53:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.134] (p22.3c03.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.134]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i88Nphe13046 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 17:51:43 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <413F88BB.3050700@oldwaylane.net> References: <413F88BB.3050700@oldwaylane.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] New McCall's patterns Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 17:56:54 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I wonder how one goes about getting a job as a historical patternmaker for one of the big pattern companies. Sounds like a good gig. Sylrog On Sep 8, 2004, at 4:33 PM, Judy Mitchell wrote: > Cindy Abel wrote: >> Aside Query: Anyone know if Martha McCain will have more patterns >> for >> Simplicity out shortly for other historic eras? > > From what I've been told by one of the other designers, don't expect > anything for about a year. She's switching to American Rev War and is > taking time to research. > > -Judy Mitchell > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 8 20:18:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i890IsF4026199 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 20:18:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i890II4d022806 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Sep 2004 18:18:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i890IG9W054652; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 18:18:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d21.mx.aol.com (imo-d21.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.207]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i890IB9W054576 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 18:18:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.4.) id 6.46.57e6e383 (4402) for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 20:18:01 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <46.57e6e383.2e70fb39@aol.com> Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 20:18:01 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] New McCall's patterns To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/8/2004 7:54:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, sylvia@ntw.net writes: > I wonder how one goes about getting a job as a historical patternmaker > for one of the big pattern companies. Sounds like a good gig. > Like any gig, on top of being good at what you do and caring about what you do [which doesn't always matter] it's being in the right place at the right time. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 8 20:26:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i890QD18026221 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 20:26:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i890PZ4d023452 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Sep 2004 18:25:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i890PZ9W058463; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 18:25:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.compassnet.com.au [203.26.180.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i890PV9X058300 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 18:25:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from glendar@compassnet.com.au) Received: from mail (root@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.10/linuxconf) with SMTP id i890X7vv018822 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 10:33:07 +1000 Received: from glendaii ([203.26.180.167]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.10/linuxconf) with SMTP id i890X6uL018817 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 10:33:06 +1000 Message-ID: <057401c49602$de4ff6e0$eaf4fea9@glendaii> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000701c49516$7e5008d0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 10:20:51 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Over the coming summer (it gets VERY hot here in summer, and not that cold in winter, so we have the same reenactment time of year as the US and Europeans) I have to get some costumes ready for a 17th century masque next Easter. Should be a heap of fun! I'm going as a Naiad (water spirit), after the drawings by Inigo Jones (thanks, Drea for putting these up!). My husband is finally making the plague doctor outfit he's always wanted (not quite to the masque ideal, but the right period! After all, he doesn't want to get the plague... Andrew is wearing Wayne's old early 16th century Reichslaffer outfit with a turban - not far from what was worn in the early 17th century for masques, and Owen is going as an imp (we're making a mask from a sculpture in a cathedral. A fair bit of work, but it should be a lot of fun. I'm not telling anyone over here what we're making, so they'll get a surprise on the night! We went to an Op-shop a couple of days ago and found a perfect hat for Wayne and some lovely sheer silk for me. These were going to be the hardest pieces to get for both our costumes, so we're really happy! And I've got a couple of boring things to do too - a new mid 17th century soldier's coat for Andrew, who has grown more than expected in the chest. I've also got to do my new bodice and skirt for that time, and a natty new suit for Wayne. The fabric's been sitting in the cupboard for way too long for both of these! Procrastination, two kids and a job get the better of me WAY too often. Glenda. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 8 21:50:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i891oUAW026442 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 21:50:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i891ng4d028844 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Sep 2004 19:49:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i891nc9W098122; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 19:49:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i891na9X098097 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 19:49:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i891rduL008848 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 21:53:40 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 21:59:24 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <000701c49516$7e5008d0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <000701c49516$7e5008d0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200409082159.24841.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 07 September 2004 4:08 pm, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi, just curious about what your projekts will be for the next months. I am working on making my own adaptation of the Historiska Museet's recreation of a highborn Viking woman's clothing, as shown on this site: http://www.historiska.se/histvarld/drakter/vkvinna/vkvinfr.htm (in Swedish) http://www.historiska.se/histvarld/eng/drakter/vkvinna/vkvinfr.htm (English translation) The site provides a downloadable PDF version of the patterns used in this outfit, but they strike me as having too many odd-shaped pieces to be period, so I am trying to work out my own adaptation. Meanwhile, I'm acquiring substitutes for brocaded tablet weaving (if I wait until I get around to learning how to do brocaded tablet weaving, the outfit will never get made!) and fabrics. I have suitable beads to hang between the brooches, and I have a pair of tortoise brooches, but they're of a Norse design. Since this costume is based largely on southern Swedish finds, I want to wear it with brooches in a Swedish style. So once I've gotten far enough to need them, I plan to buy a pair of bead-headed brooches, like these which are based on a find from Gotland (scroll down to item no. VB-23): http://www.quietpress.com/vikingbrooch.html I plan to order them silver-plated. I am also working on an early period Russian costume rather like this one by a reenactor with society called New Varangian Guard: http://users.bigpond.net.au/quarfwa/miklagard/Costume/Rus/Female/Rus_Female_main.htm My overskirt (called a panova) will be sky blue wool flannel, though, while hers is blue plaid. I have sewn the panels and need only to attach them to a cord or narrow strap. -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 8 22:11:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i892BTHO026568 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 22:11:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i892Af4d000342 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Sep 2004 20:10:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i892AY9W008081; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 20:10:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i892AU9X008050 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 20:10:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i892EYeV009325 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 22:14:34 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] PS on underwear Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 22:20:19 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <008001c4958d$fb05b880$b791d6cb@ewalpole> In-Reply-To: <008001c4958d$fb05b880$b791d6cb@ewalpole> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200409082220.19680.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 08 September 2004 6:24 am, Elizabeth Walpole wrote: [snip] > Well I don't have any personal experience (though the other day I found a > 19yr old friend had used the belt and pad and washing it out after use > arrangement for a couple of years until she actually paid attention to what > was available in the shops and started buying her own) It seems to me that > simply having it attached at each corner would help (I get the impression > that they only one clip/pin at either end) There was only one fastener at each end, though it wasn't a clip; it was more like a loop with a pointed prong protruding into the middle of the loop. Sanitary pads at the time were made with a long tab consisting of a long extension of the materal the pad was covered with; the idea was to pull that tab through the loop and pierce it with the prong inside so that it wouldn't slide the rest of the way through. Although the tabs were made of pretty tough stuff, this method didn't really work very well. :-( I don't think having an attachment point at each corner would have been much different from having only one at each end, because the pads were so narrow (about 3 inches wide tops) . -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 8 23:02:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8932a2b026722 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 23:02:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8931l4d004402 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Sep 2004 21:01:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8931e9W033031; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 21:01:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.mc.surewest.net (smtp2.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.51]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8931b9W033009 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 21:01:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-3504); Wed, 08 Sep 2004 20:01:35 -0700 Received: from unknown (66.205.128.64) by smtp2.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Wed, 08 Sep 2004 20:01:35 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040908195209.00d166b0@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 20:01:30 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? In-Reply-To: <000701c49516$7e5008d0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp2.mc.surewest.net SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=66.205.128.64 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, I have a few linen shifts that have seen too many days and should be replaced. I've been getting my linen ready for laundering/shrinking before cutting out. But I've been distracted by making plans to visit my family when my niece (and her newborn) come to visit from Australia. I wanted to make certain that I scheduled this trip so I can see my nephew-in-law (while my niece and the baby can stay for a month, he only has two weeks of vacation) as well. And I want to make a gift for the little one. So the sewing stuff has been sitting staring at me. If I get my act together, I can have the shifts cut out for hand-sewing soon. Then I need to make another 1840's work dress for Sutter's Fort. Once I get the cutting-out done, the sewing is easy (I love to hand-sew things). It's the cutting-out that holds me up. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 8 23:05:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89357RE026730 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 23:05:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8934T4d004623 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Sep 2004 21:04:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8934T9W034369; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 21:04:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8934Q9X034324 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 21:04:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (acty1234.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.242.234]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i893416O011984 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 23:04:20 -0400 Message-ID: <413FC81A.9030005@dandy.net> Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 23:03:54 -0400 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Heel question (crossposted) References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Marc. In some of the illustrations that Gerry Embleton shows for his 15th Cent. group "The Companye of Saint George" he shows shoes with, most probably, clouted on patches on the heel and under the ball of the foot. These reinforcements are sometimes trotted out by folks looking to document pre-late 16th cent Western European heel risers, but that isn't the case. You can see some illos that show this on pg. 12 of his and John Howe's "The Medieval Soldier" book. However, neither he nor John nor, for that matter, anyone in their group ever to my knowledge has trotted this out as documentation of pre late 16th cent. heels per se. Hope this helps, Mike T. Marc Carlson wrote: > Over the weekend I was teaching a class on shoes and someone mentioned > that they'd seen a note to a list (either this one, or Authentic SCA, > or something very similar - I neglected to write it down) in which the > writer said that they had seen evidence for 15th century heels. I've > been looking for this message, but am not finding it. If anyone has > any clue what I'm talking about, please let me know :) > > Marc/Diarmaid > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 8 23:25:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i893POma026794 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 23:25:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i893Oj4d006248 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Sep 2004 21:24:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i893Oh9W044471; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 21:24:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i893Oc9X044426 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 21:24:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i893SbJR010876 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 23:28:39 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 23:34:22 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <4.2.2.20040908195209.00d166b0@pop.surewest.net> In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20040908195209.00d166b0@pop.surewest.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200409082334.22990.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 08 September 2004 11:01 pm, Joan Jurancich wrote: [snip] > Once I get the cutting-out > done, the sewing is easy (I love to hand-sew things). It's the cutting-out > that holds me up. I'm not particularly fond of handsewing, but I agree it's the cutting out that holds me up, too. Once I have all the pieces cut out, I manage to finish the item, usually in short order. -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 00:11:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i894B1Wc026895 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 00:11:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i894AJ4d010377 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Sep 2004 22:10:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i894AF9W068436; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 22:10:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i894AE9W068366 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 22:10:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-164.cvip.net [129.8.205.164]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC234B0F1 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 21:10:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040908205539.00b14ef8@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 21:08:59 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] New McCall's patterns In-Reply-To: References: <009c01c49540$2be3a000$c214f504@Dan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Cindy and all, Taking a look at the patterns, and from what I am seeing, I would pass on them for the truly historic patterns. Decent for those winging it and not worried about authenticity. Here are some of my thoughts on them, YMMV and I by no means consider my thoughts to be taken as gospel, just my opinion. At 09:21 AM 9/8/2004 -0500, you wrote: <> >4795--Man's Rennaissance Doublet with several variations. Seems to have the >correct look--Probably good for getting the basic modern measurements and >then purists can go to Janet Arnold's or other scale patterns to perfect the >cut. The body front has obvious darts for fitting the front, which is not appropriate, really. However, the trims option over the darts would hide that flaw. The peplum is very long as well. Might work for 17th c., but for 16th c., just not quite right in my eyes. At least the sleeves are detachable. >4796--Woman's Rennaissance bodices Less historically accurate than the Man's >Doublet. But again, probably good for basic fit and then going from there. I would put this into the fantasy faire category. It's the princess seaming that screams it, and the wing sleeves on one view. And if you have side lacings, why have back lacings? >4797--Woman's Civil War era Jacket with insert fake vest, skirt, and shawl >cutting guide. Cut looks like it was taken perhaps from a real jacket >possibly as all the seams look right. It also appears like actual wear, not >taken from a fashion plate. Doesn't have helpful notes and comments, like >Martha McCain's Simplicity patterns. Why does this remind me of Chitty Chitty Bang Bang? I think it is the hat with veiling. However, I don't have much info on the time period appropriateness of it, so I won't comment further. >> >4797--Woman's cloak--several views. Just your basic cloak with a hood like >the Folkwear Kinsale cloak pattern--very full-cut hood with a self-ruffled >front. Actually #4698. And it looks a lot like my Kinsale cloak pattern from the basic design line. However, it doesn't appear to have the button add-on option of the hood that the Folkwear pattern has, or at least the suggested notions don't appear to list buttons or anything. >Cindy Abel Again, YMMV, this was just my opinion, especially on the Renaissance time frame, tho' my knowledge is 16th c. British Isles, and may not apply for other regions. Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 00:12:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i894CiWL026904 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 00:12:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i894Bu4d010463 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Sep 2004 22:11:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i894Bu9W069235; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 22:11:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i894Bq9W069181 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 22:11:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA17576 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 23:18:53 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 23:18:52 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] PS on underwear In-Reply-To: <200409082220.19680.cathy@thyrsus.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wed, 8 Sep 2004, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > There was only one fastener at each end, though it wasn't a clip; it > was more like a loop with a pointed prong protruding into the middle > of the loop. Sanitary pads at the time were made with a long tab > consisting of a long extension of the materal the pad was covered > with; the idea was to pull that tab through the loop and pierce it > with the prong inside so that it wouldn't slide the rest of the way > through. Although the tabs were made of pretty tough stuff, this > method didn't really work very well. :-( My goodness, I hadn't thought about those in years. I had forgotten about that loop/prong thing. Now I remember taking the tail end of the extension and wrapping it back around the loop and tying a knot to keep the whole thing from sliding. Yes, it was a little lumpy, but it stayed put. I also remember the ads in girls' magazines (like Seventeen or American Girl) written like little comic strips: "Hey, Sue, wearing your slinky new dress to the dance?" "I can't. It's that time of the month, and every outline will show." "Haven't you tried these new tampons? Designed just for teens like us! No bulky applicators!" [Last panel, of course, Sue is wearing her slinky new dress and singing the praises of the tampons...] What strange things are stuck in my brain. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 00:19:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i894JfE2026923 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 00:19:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i894Is4d011071 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Sep 2004 22:18:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i894Ir9W072950; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 22:18:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.compassnet.com.au [203.26.180.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i894In9X072897 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 22:18:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from glendar@compassnet.com.au) Received: from mail (root@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.10/linuxconf) with SMTP id i894Qb7S030524 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:26:37 +1000 Received: from glendaii ([203.26.180.167]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.10/linuxconf) with SMTP id i894QZuL030513 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:26:36 +1000 Message-ID: <063801c49623$68777ee0$eaf4fea9@glendaii> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.2.2.20040908195209.00d166b0@pop.surewest.net> <200409082334.22990.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:13:44 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ditto! I also procrastinate over the exact design of the garment if there's a few to choose from. When there's only one, I'll just procrastinate over the cutting Glenda. > I'm not particularly fond of handsewing, but I agree it's the cutting out that > holds me up, too. Once I have all the pieces cut out, I manage to finish the > item, usually in short order. > > -- > Cathy Raymond _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 00:21:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i894Le60026939 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 00:21:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i894Kx4d011186 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Sep 2004 22:20:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i894Kv9W074020; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 22:20:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i894Kt9W074001 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 22:20:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.141] (p29.3c03.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.141]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i894Jbe29607 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 22:19:37 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <46.57e6e383.2e70fb39@aol.com> References: <46.57e6e383.2e70fb39@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <2E3948CF-0218-11D9-AB51-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] New McCall's patterns Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 22:24:46 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO With the critical part being in the right place at the right time. I wonder if they ever advertise for patternmakers somewhere? On Sep 8, 2004, at 6:18 PM, AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/8/2004 7:54:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, > sylvia@ntw.net > writes: > >> I wonder how one goes about getting a job as a historical patternmaker >> for one of the big pattern companies. Sounds like a good gig. >> > > Like any gig, on top of being good at what you do and caring about > what you > do [which doesn't always matter] it's being in the right place at the > right > time. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 04:45:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i898jEgg017314 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 04:45:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i898iR4d025594 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 02:44:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i898iF9W090188; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 02:44:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from alpha2.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (alpha2.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.0.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i898iC9W090122 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 02:44:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 09:44:01 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: RE: [h-cost] PS on underwear To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A0F@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] PS on underwear Thread-Index: AcSU8aJ24YNetZy6QvOhuFbZ5DYBfQBV1wVQ content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.21 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I opened up a new brand of pad this month and was astounded > to find that the wings sealed not with adhesive strips, but > with *velcro.* Well, if they do it on disposable nappies for babies, why not on pads for women. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 04:53:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i898rLaC021978 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 04:53:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i898q24d025881 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 02:52:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i898pv9W093346; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 02:51:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.254.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i898pt9W093318 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 02:51:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 09:51:52 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Who asked about diamond-weave wool? To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A10@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Who asked about diamond-weave wool? Thread-Index: AcSU8aJ24YNetZy6QvOhuFbZ5DYBfQBWATfw content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.21 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Teddy wrote: > > A while back someone was asking about diamond-weave wool and I've > > forgotten who it was. > > > > Whoever you are, if you could email me I can give you details of the > > one I mentioned having seen on a traders stall at an event - I tracked > > it down over the weekend and got a sample of it for you. > -Judy Mitchell responded; > ooo! I wasn't the one who brought it up onlist so I don't qualify as > the one you got the sample for (darnit!), but I'm definately interested > in info. Are they affordable (without mortgaging the house), and would > they ship to the US????? wow. Yes to both, Judy. He gets the fabric specially woven (I think he said for Viking re-enactors) and his prices are reasoanble and he's happy to ship abroad (I know he sells in mainland Europe, so I'm assuming the US is not a problem either) As soon as I tidy my seing room enough for hte sample and details to fight their way tot he surface I'll post them to the list (as well as sending the actual sample to Cathy) Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 05:06:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89969Ts026493 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 05:06:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8995N4d026446 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 03:05:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8995L9W098889; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 03:05:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk ([193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8995I9W098451 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 03:05:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i8995va17848.; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 10:05:59 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 09 Sep 2004 10:04:29 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 10:04:21 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queen Anne's Lace/OT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The QAL that has been discussed here (with the pink central floret) is wild carrot. However, in Britain the name is used for cow parsley, a common roadside flower, but not very commonly. According to Richard Mabey's "Flora Britannica" there have been various suggestions as to the origin of the name. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> mara@rileyhome.net 29/08/2004 02:16:38 >>> Coming in late -- was Queen Anne's Lace called something else before it got that name? -- Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 05:13:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i899DE6M027134 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 05:13:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i899CY4d026979 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 03:12:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i899CX9W002121; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 03:12:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from alpha2.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (alpha2.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.0.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i899CT9W002072 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 03:12:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 10:12:27 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: RE: [h-cost] current and future work? To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A11@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] current and future work? Thread-Index: AcSVP9oAQdr+NElOQmybARTaQpvdawBC5fFg content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.21 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Hi, just curious about what your projekts will be for the next months. > > Autumn and winter is here, so i have got my plans ready now. You mena in addition to all the stuff I should have had done for this summer and didn't get aroudn to tand all the "unfinished" projects sitting on a bcak-burner waiting for me to get back to them???... Seriously though.... * I didn't finish the bed-ghangings for our medieval tent because the hand sewing is so time-consuming and boring (sewing down velvet edge-strips around six panels of purple and gold brocade, plus a matching canopy) so I'm hoping to get them done a bit each week over the winter season ready for use next summer. * I still have to alter the armholes and finish the neckline and hem of a full-cirlce houpellande for a friend, plus the doublet and hat to go with it. * I have orders to fill for two rag-dolls (the first I've made for paying customers in over 8 years and my prices hadn't been upped in over ten years then so I have *no* idea what to charge for the things now!!!) The customers who ordered them don't seem to mind but I don't want to overcharge them and I don't want the final price to come as a shock (there's a lot of hand-work on them, I fabric paint then embroider over the faces, hand sew all the hair on and hand finish the clothes). * I *have* to make new stuff for my 14th adn 15th century wardrobes. The exisitng stuff is a combination f too small to fit and/or so old/worn-out it's falling appart. The braies and shirts are the only bit's I've kept up to date with. * I never got aroudn to making the Victorian bathing -suit I was hoping to wear at the end of August (fortunately, neither did the girl who was meant to be accompanying me) and I'd liek to get some other victorian kit made for wearing to Melanie Wilson's Victorian get-togethers (I'm having to skip this autumn's one partly because I haven't the kit to wear to it, and I did so enjoy last years one) * All the back-burner unfinished projects that really ned to be hauled out and done out of the way. But I don't really like to think about the length of the list because it's quite daunting. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 05:20:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i899KN0t027187 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 05:20:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i899Jk4d027554 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 03:19:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i899Jj9W004984; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 03:19:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from gold.wightman.ca (gold.wightman.ca [216.249.0.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i899Jh9W004953 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 03:19:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lgsteph@wightman.ca) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by gold.wightman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03AF44770C for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 05:19:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d7k7b6 (unknown [142.46.141.52]) by gold.wightman.ca (Postfix) with SMTP id 4A4A54770E for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 05:19:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001201c4964e$b0f9e880$348d2e8e@wightman.ca> From: "Five Rivers" To: References: <200409090852.i898qM9X093509@net.indra.com> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 05:23:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: current and future work? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My list doesn't seem to change as much as others; nor do I seem to be able to work as fast as the rest of you! Mine is as follows: - Finish Wind embroidery (figure I have about two weeks worth of work left. I hope!) http://www.5rivers.org/en-gb/dept_33.html will take you to the right web page, and just scroll down a bit. The image there was taken a few months ago now and Wind has certainly progressed since then. When I have it done I'll post new pics. - Get Water embroidery on the frame and finished. - Embroidered sleeve appliqués for a friend, which will go on the frame the same time as Water. The sleeve appliqués are borrowing heavily from Norse design, goldwork on green wool/silk ground. - Embroider cloak of state in a design I've created very much influenced by both the Sutton Hoo chambered pieces and the Roger III of Sicily cloak. This is to be red silk ground with goldwork. - Finish Gary's 15th century archer's garments - Handsew an Italian Renaissance ensemble for myself - Design, embroider and sew an early 18th century frock coat variation for myself using some gorgeous cream wool/silk twill I have, done with an Elizabethan blackwork motif. - Design, embroider and sew a teal green suit for myself with, what else, copious quantities of embroidery. There's more on the list, but realistically I'll be lucky to get Wind, Water and the sleeve appliqués done over the winter. Sigh. Regards Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage fine hand-sewn embroidered garments, historical sewing patterns & embroidery supplies (519) 799-5577, http://www.5rivers.org email: info@5rivers.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 05:28:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i899SAUu027207 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 05:28:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i899Ra4d027810 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 03:27:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i899RZ9W007891; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 03:27:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from oldntserver.stoneage.mglarc.com ([212.17.54.27]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i899RX9W007781 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 03:27:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lstrid@mglarc.com) Received: by rfc1918.space.should.not.be.used.on.publicips with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) id ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 10:27:17 +0100 Message-ID: <87A506E53AFF4C4CB2C565044BA209E7AF4AAD@rfc1918.space.should.not.be.used.on.publicips> From: Lena Strid To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] current and future work? Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 10:27:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i899RX9W007781 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >> Hi, just curious about what your projekts will be for the next months. >> Autumn and winter is here, so i have got my plans ready now. - Start on the blue surcote to go with my late 13th/early 14th century golden yellow kirtle (see folio with the bathing man in the Manesse Codex for my inspiration), which needs to be finished before August 2005. - Hopefully get around to make the Herjolfsnes "houppelande" which I planned for last winter. Haven't decided yet if I should line it or not. After all, the Irish climate does not motivate double layers of wool, although if I move back home, autumn/winter in Sweden would. - Make a 10th century Hedeby/Křstrup apron dress so I would more blend in with the Hiberno-Norse group I sometimes play with. (hmmm, need to get tortoise shell brooches as well...) As well as several other projects put on the back shelf for a couple of years now... - and likely to stay there for a few years more. :-) /Lena ================================================= Margaret Gowen & Co. Ltd. Archaeological Consultants & Project Managers 2 Killiney View Tel: 01-2300433 Albert Road Lower Fax: 01-2300865 Glenageary e-mail: archaeology@mglarc.com Co. Dublin website: http://www.mglarc.com ================================================= CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email is private and confidential and may contain legally privileged information. 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NOTE Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company or its associated companies unless otherwise specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 05:48:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i899mCSx027343 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 05:48:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i899lW4d028889 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 03:47:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i899lT9W015659; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 03:47:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i899lP9W015544 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 03:47:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.150.204]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i899kUbk011486 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 19:46:56 +1000 Message-ID: <00e301c49651$e2d8e880$cc96d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <12c.4b2ae6ab.2e6dd435@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Vanity Fair Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 11:14:44 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO think perhaps that the too-thin look of > many of today's actresses would not come across well--you need a little bosom > to carry off the look! > > Ann Wass I think the bosom look is probably why they possibly didn't want somebody who was really skinny (Exhibit A: Gwyneth Paltrow in Emma). However, if you can ask an actress to put on weight for Bridget Jones' Diary why not for Vanity Fair. I really don't know if the pregnancy issue is really what the director actually wanted, especially as it's difficult (bordering on impossible) to insure an actress after a certain point in her pregnancy, and because most scenes are not shot in order the costumer would have to try to keep her looking the same despite her growing belly and probably her bust as well. If it was me I'd be asking her to put on weight, rather than asking her husband to try to get her pregnant (I'm not even going to start on what's wrong with that conversation) it's fairly easy to keep fat at a steady state if you can regiment how much/what they eat and how much they exercise. Pregnancy, on the other hand, is a constantly changing state, it's difficult to impossible to predict how fast or how much the body's shape will change (especially if this is her first child), and it's a state that only lasts for 9 months. Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra Australia ewalpole@austar.net.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 06:47:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89Al8dj027574 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 06:47:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89AkM4d001961 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 04:46:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89AkK9W042282; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 04:46:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.suscom.net (smtp1.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89AkI9X042224 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 04:46:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (smtp1 [127.0.0.1]) by smtp1.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 951DFD878E for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 06:42:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp1.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp1 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 26738-06 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 06:42:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.78.64.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp1.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 26093D879A for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 06:42:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <035101c4965a$3128d880$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <87A506E53AFF4C4CB2C565044BA209E7AF4AAD@rfc1918.space.should.not.be.used.on.publicips> Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 06:45:58 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lena Strid" To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 5:27 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] current and future work? > >> Hi, just curious about what your projekts will be for the next months. > >> Autumn and winter is here, so i have got my plans ready now. Current--Elizabethan gown, silk chemise, partlet, and painted flag fan for a customer. The gown is very basic so it will be relatively quick Purple cotton brocade bodice for a customer Elizabethan gown for myself Eliz dress for an American Girl size doll (I just made a kirtle and sideless for a Barbie!) Future projects-- Pelican portrait dress in black cotton velvet and pearls with blackworked sleeves (very long term project--planning on AT LEAST a year to work on this one) And I have this 8 yard roll of navy cotton brocade that is just begging me to do something with it, but it hasn't told me what yet! Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 07:43:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89Bhv2J027848 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 07:43:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89BhK4d005242 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 05:43:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89BhF9W068109; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 05:43:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89BhD9W068068 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 05:43:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gia_gavino@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.115 ([204.127.197.115]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <2004090911430701500o6b2fe>; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 11:43:07 +0000 Received: from [24.16.244.181] by 204.127.197.115; Thu, 09 Sep 2004 11:43:06 +0000 From: gia_gavino@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] current and future work? Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 11:43:06 +0000 Message-Id: <090920041143.5101.414041CA0001E4BF000013ED2200735834010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Jul 16 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: Z2lhX2dhdmlub0Bjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Goodness! After reading everyone else's long lists, I don't feel so bad! Well, my sewing business is starting to rev up and not in the direction I had anticipated. There are lots of clothing merchants at events, but not many actually have undergarments made of linen. I thought I'd fill that niche, when I went to Merchant last weekend, with the sewing on commission as a side business. But now I have 13 clients; 11 wanting a minimum of two garments. One client wants tudor from the skin out by 12th night (1/7-9 2005) and another client wants a t tunic by mid November (thank goodness at least 1 easy project!). Almost all of the rest of my clients want Italian Ren. chemise and gowns. I'm still getting over the shock because they all know that I don't work cheap...I'm glad I love to sew all the things I will be making!!!!! Over the past several years I've learned that I like seeing my garb on folks. You see, what had happened is, I'd make the garb for me, and then when I hit *really* hard times I'd sell my garments to make money for things like paying the rent...I made the pleasant discovery that even though I am short, the bodices of my italian ren seemed to *fit* almost all body types! I draft my own patterns, and thought that my garb wouldn't really sell because I'm not particuarly, um...well endowed. Imagine my surprise that even buxsom ladies fit the bodices of my gowns. *amazed bemusement* For my family, I want to make my daughter a new italian ren out of some gorgeous silk/rayon velevet that's a very luscious purply-blue. She also needs new camping garb so that's at least 5 new outfits for her and a new cloak. We've just discovered that she breaks out in hives when wool touches her skin. She's out grown (tall-wise) everything I've made...again... I'd like to make me a tudor from the skin out (for my new persona) out of some gorgeous red silks I have. Or maybe I'll make it out of the garnet silk/velvet I have. Oh, I know! I'll do two tudors! *giggling nervously* I don't think I'll be taking on any more clients until I get my current clientele served. If I don't look at the lists, I don't panic so much..."One client, one garment at a time" is my new working theme. -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 08:27:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89CRRHM028091 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 08:27:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89CQj4d007541 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 06:26:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89CQc9W088325; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 06:26:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m18.mx.aol.com (imo-m18.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89CQZ9W088253 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 06:26:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.4.) id 6.e5.9b48a2 (4340) for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 08:26:28 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 08:26:27 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] New McCall's patterns To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Every time I try to go to www.McCalls.com, I get a "Website not responding" prompt. So I got on Netscape to try it and there I get "Request refused from site". Why is that??? Don't they like me at McCalls? How about a link to these patterns. Or do I have to drive somewhere just to look at them. I'm sure not gonna by any McCalls patterns if they won't even let me on their web site. :-P _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 08:39:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89Cd2s1028135 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 08:39:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89CcK4d008277 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 06:38:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89CcJ9W093587; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 06:38:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89CcH9W093560 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 06:38:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m247.in-tch.com [216.166.191.247]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i89CbU811114 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 06:37:30 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <41404FB9.5040402@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 06:42:33 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Who asked about diamond-weave wool? References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A10@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A10@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cool! --sue (another drooling american....drooling over the fabric, that is!) Teddy wrote: >>Are they affordable (without mortgaging the house), and would >>they ship to the US????? wow. > > > Yes to both, Judy. > > He gets the fabric specially woven (I think he said for Viking > re-enactors) and his prices are reasoanble and he's happy to ship abroad > (I know he sells in mainland Europe, so I'm assuming the US is not a > problem either) > > As soon as I tidy my seing room enough for hte sample and details to > fight their way tot he surface I'll post them to the list (as well as > sending the actual sample to Cathy) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 08:50:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89Co2NQ028222 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 08:50:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89CnN4d009096 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 06:49:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89CnK9W098856; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 06:49:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41007.mail.yahoo.com (web41007.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i89CnJ9W098775 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 06:49:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from tania_gr17@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040909124911.77621.qmail@web41007.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.79.63.35] by web41007.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 09 Sep 2004 05:49:11 PDT Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 05:49:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Tania Gruning Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <035101c4965a$3128d880$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My current project is a skirt in wine-red velveteen. The skirt is inspired by the one that crown princess Mary of Denmark wore at her wedding. I also have a late tudor early elizabethan. A copy of the spanish princess Clara Euginia (i think). Made out of some cotton brocade with an acanthus leaf motiv. I really like the severe lines of the fashions of the spanish court. My dreamed of projects. A complete riding habit, from around 1891. elegant and severe. Simple lines and beautiful fabrics. I need to make the full monty which includes underwear, riding trousers, skirt(apron) and jacket. Will take a lot of skill in tailoring, and i need some more practice in that area before i start. Tania Denmark Dianne & Greg Stucki wrote: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lena Strid" To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 5:27 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] current and future work? > >> Hi, just curious about what your projekts will be for the next months. > >> Autumn and winter is here, so i have got my plans ready now. Current--Elizabethan gown, silk chemise, partlet, and painted flag fan for a customer. The gown is very basic so it will be relatively quick Purple cotton brocade bodice for a customer Elizabethan gown for myself Eliz dress for an American Girl size doll (I just made a kirtle and sideless for a Barbie!) Future projects-- Pelican portrait dress in black cotton velvet and pearls with blackworked sleeves (very long term project--planning on AT LEAST a year to work on this one) And I have this 8 yard roll of navy cotton brocade that is just begging me to do something with it, but it hasn't told me what yet! Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 08:54:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89CsO7n028294 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 08:54:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89Crj4d009446 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 06:53:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89Crj9W001126; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 06:53:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ns3.linuxwebnet.com (ns3.linuxwebnet.com [216.133.76.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i89Crh9W001077 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 06:53:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from judymitch@oldwaylane.net) Received: (qmail 25187 invoked from network); 9 Sep 2004 13:26:42 -0000 Received: from dialup-4.249.87.251.dial1.washington2.level3.net (HELO oldwaylane.net) (4.249.87.251) by shada.com with SMTP; 9 Sep 2004 13:26:42 -0000 Message-ID: <41404E6F.3000800@oldwaylane.net> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 08:37:03 -0400 From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Who asked about diamond-weave wool? References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A10@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A10@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Teddy wrote: > Yes to both, Judy. > > He gets the fabric specially woven (I think he said for Viking > re-enactors) and his prices are reasoanble and he's happy to ship abroad > (I know he sells in mainland Europe, so I'm assuming the US is not a > problem either) > > As soon as I tidy my seing room enough for hte sample and details to > fight their way tot he surface I'll post them to the list (as well as > sending the actual sample to Cathy) Fab! cool. can't wait :-D -Judy Mitchell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 09:05:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89D5Ept028480 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 09:05:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89D4L4d010106 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 07:04:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89D4L9W006300; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 07:04:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com ([199.170.202.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89D4I9W006257 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 07:04:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i89DOmTP025245 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 09:24:49 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: (from sfarmer@localhost) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3/Submit) id i89DOm2q025244 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 09:24:48 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 09:24:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Farmer Message-Id: <200409091324.i89DOm2q025244@sabre.goldsword.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] PS on underwear In-Reply-To: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > My goodness, I hadn't thought about those in years. I had forgotten about > that loop/prong thing. Now I remember taking the tail end of the extension > and wrapping it back around the loop and tying a knot to keep the whole > thing from sliding. Yes, it was a little lumpy, but it stayed put. > > I also remember the ads in girls' magazines (like Seventeen or American > Girl) written like little comic strips: > "Hey, Sue, wearing your slinky new dress to the dance?" > "I can't. It's that time of the month, and every outline will show." > "Haven't you tried these new tampons? Designed just for teens like us! No > bulky applicators!" > [Last panel, of course, Sue is wearing her slinky new dress and singing > the praises of the tampons...] My two favorite Seventeen magazine ads: 1) Pink typrwriter with flower decals and peace signs on it. Piece of letter paper in the typewriter. Typing: Dear Mother Nature, DROP DEAD!!!!!! Sincerely ... Can't remember if it was an ad for napkins, tampons, or Midol. 2) Package of Panty Hose with the slogan: These panty hose will *not* bag, sag, wrinkle ... or fit your mother susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 09:05:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89D5NEo028495 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 09:05:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89Cxf4d009824 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 06:59:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89Cxc9W003906; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 06:59:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ns3.linuxwebnet.com (ns3.linuxwebnet.com [216.133.76.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i89CxZ9W003868 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 06:59:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from judymitch@oldwaylane.net) Received: (qmail 25453 invoked from network); 9 Sep 2004 13:32:36 -0000 Received: from dialup-4.249.87.251.dial1.washington2.level3.net (HELO oldwaylane.net) (4.249.87.251) by shada.com with SMTP; 9 Sep 2004 13:32:36 -0000 Message-ID: <41404FD2.4080405@oldwaylane.net> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 08:42:58 -0400 From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] New McCall's patterns References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > Every time I try to go to www.McCalls.com, I get a "Website not responding" > prompt. So I got on Netscape to try it and there I get "Request refused from > site". > > Why is that??? Don't they like me at McCalls? Maybe you're using an old address or something? Try this one that I just pulled up. It's what I use, and works just fine. The only stupid thing I've found on the McCall's/Butterick/Vogues sites is that their webdeveloper decided that when you type in the pattern name into the search box, you actually have to click 'go!' instead of just hitting return. -Judy Mitchell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 09:21:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89DLZmT028762 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 09:21:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89DKt4d011362 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 07:20:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89DKr9W015333; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 07:20:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com ([199.170.202.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89DKn9W015286 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 07:20:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i89DfKTP025510 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 09:41:20 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: (from sfarmer@localhost) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3/Submit) id i89DfKFD025509 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 09:41:20 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 09:41:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Farmer Message-Id: <200409091341.i89DfKFD025509@sabre.goldsword.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] New McCall's patterns In-Reply-To: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Every time I try to go to www.McCalls.com, I get a "Website not responding" > prompt. So I got on Netscape to try it and there I get "Request refused from > site". > > Why is that??? Don't they like me at McCalls? Mayhap because it's www.mccall.com -- no S Jerusha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 09:34:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89DYJgM028886 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 09:34:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89DXV4d012392 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 07:33:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89DXR9W022391; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 07:33:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89DXO9W022285 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 07:33:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-8.13) id AB9A20530124; Thu, 09 Sep 2004 09:33:14 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.114 ([209.131.81.114] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 9 Sep 04 13:33:08 -0000 Message-ID: <003901c49672$838cd6e0$725183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040908160924.3FC087D40@sm4app04.siteprotect.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] New McCall's patterns Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 09:40:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I also have never seen this 'style' either in surviving garments or in photo. I have hundreds of photos from this supposed period! Even if you do a faux vest with jacket, these are of the last quarter of the century and the skirt indeed on both the jacket and and nethers is also wrong even for that late period. I have been redrafting shoulders for most of the commercial patterns, as well as other points of fitting for years. I use the patterns mainly for sizing. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 12:09 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] New McCall's patterns > On Wed Sep 8 9:49 , Theflamingneedle@aol.com sent: > > >The problem that I always have with the commercial CW era patterns is that they never get the dropped shoulders > >right. Universally (as universally as fashion ever gets, anyways) early 60's styles had the shoulders that hit past > >the ball of the shoulder, almost upper arm. Yet these patterns are determined to keep them up at the upper shoulder. > > I'm very hesitant to use "absolutes" when referring to period fashions, but I think the dropped armscye (shoulder) is > an absolute must for early 1860s styles. This pattern (correct #4697) doesn't have it. > > >Also, I've never seen a period garment (from the actual CW era) with that type of skirting/attached peplum. Waists > >generally ended at the waist. > > I've seen several examples of mid-19th century garments with the faux-vest effect (photographs, fashion plates and > original garments). Some are achieved with the use of trims, others have a vest front attached to the side seams. But > these have all been dresses or jackets, not a long coat like this one. And generally outergarments (paletots, > pardeusseseus, etc.)from this period do not have a seam at the waistline. > > I also have an issue with the arrangement of the pleats and the location of the closure on the skirt. And the fabric > requirements, especially for the skirt, seem excessive. This pattern may meet your needs for Dickens' Fair and similar > events, but I don't recommend it for accurate historic clothing. > > Ms. McCain is a member of this list. Perhaps she can give us an update on any works in progress. > > Carolann Schmitt > cschmitt@genteelarts.com > www.genteelarts.com > Ladies & Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference, March 3-6, 2005 > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 09:49:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89DnskG029003 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 09:49:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89Ctt4d009617 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 06:55:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89Ctt9W002156; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 06:55:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m19.mx.aol.com (imo-m19.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89Ctp9W002080 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 06:55:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Theflamingneedle@aol.com) Received: from Theflamingneedle@aol.com by imo-m19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.4.) id 6.155.3e8693d9 (4184) for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 08:55:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Theflamingneedle@aol.com Message-ID: <155.3e8693d9.2e71acc7@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 08:55:35 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] New McCall's patterns To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5032 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/9/04 7:27:28 AM Central Daylight Time, AlbertCat@aol.com writes: How about a link to these patterns. Or do I have to drive somewhere just to look at them. I'm sure not gonna by any McCalls patterns if they won't even let me on their web site. :-P I don't know what web address you're trying to access, but I've been on their site yesterday and today, and it's working fine. Here's a link to the page that has the new patterns on it: http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/mccallspatterns/shop.cgi?s.page.7&TI=4000 1&M=&pageSize=9&UK=34070977 Are you by any chance trying to access www.mcccalls.com? Because that's not their site, and it doesn't work. The correct site is either www.mccall.com, or www.mccallspatterns.com/indexfv.html. **Tiff** eBay Selling ID: Reflections*of*Worth Historical Reproductions and Costumes "Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance." -Will Durant _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 10:23:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89ENl9w029315 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 10:23:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89EMw4d016432 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 08:22:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89EMl9W051778; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 08:22:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89EMj9W051730 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 08:22:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lauren.walker@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (h0006255ec5ea.ne.client2.attbi.com[66.31.43.36]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <2004090914223901500o65d5e>; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:22:39 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 10:21:35 -0400 Subject: Re: pads etc...Re: [h-cost] PS on underwear From: Lauren Walker To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20040907233831.EBE1C86AE9@ws7-1.us4.outblaze.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And then, speaking of eco-friendly solutions, there are sponges worn as tampons -- which apparently also have some historical antecedants -- but not much of a costume connection...The sponges were messy if you had to use public restrooms where the sink for rinsing was at a distance from the toilet, and also, dangerous if you sneezed... Lauren > From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" > I tried an eco-friendly method for awhile with cotton fleece and flannel pads > with velcro which were supposed to be soaked then washed for reuse - one of > the biggest problems I had with the method (I evenutally gave up on it) was > the velcro mangled your underwear very quickly. So, I'm not sure that is a > step in the right direction, unless they have a conspiracy with underwear > manufacturers... > > Cheers, > Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 10:24:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89EOllm029337 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 10:24:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89EO64d016522 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 08:24:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89EO69W052637; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 08:24:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89EO49W052528 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 08:24:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lauren.walker@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (h0006255ec5ea.ne.client2.attbi.com[66.31.43.36]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <2004090914235701500ogivne>; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:23:57 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 10:22:54 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] 19th century underwear From: Lauren Walker To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > From: Vicki_Betts@mail.uttyl.edu > > It was not only frowned upon, it was against the law for women to wear > pants in many American cities during the 1860s. I've run across newspaper > articles about quite a few women getting hauled into court and fined the > rough equivalent of a week's pay ($6-$10 in Memphis) for daring to wear > pants, unless they had military orders proving that they were vivandieres. > Full "bloomer" reform dress, with the short skirt, just seemed to attract > ridicule, however. I've mainly seen that attire associated with the > North. Were they arresting women for pants-as-outerwear or for pants-as-underwear? Lauren _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 10:44:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89Eih2j029648 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 10:44:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89Ei04d018291 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 08:44:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89Eht9W066021; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 08:43:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89Eho9W065966 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 08:43:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.144] (p32.3c03.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.144]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i89EgWe28412 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 08:42:32 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <090920041143.5101.414041CA0001E4BF000013ED2200735834010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> References: <090920041143.5101.414041CA0001E4BF000013ED2200735834010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Message-Id: <3431F1EE-026F-11D9-996B-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 08:47:42 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i89Eho9W065966 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO How does one get into this type of sewing business? It sounds a lot more lucrative than my online business which caters to the goth and belly dance markets. When I started my business in about 1997 I thought it would eventually take off and I could live off of it but it has never progresses further than bringing me in an order about once every 2 weeks. I have never been involved in Renn faires or the SCA or anything like that. Any suggestions on where to start? Sylrog On Sep 9, 2004, at 5:43 AM, gia_gavino@comcast.net wrote: > Goodness! After reading everyone else's long lists, I don't feel so > bad! > Well, my sewing business is starting to rev up and not in the > direction I had anticipated. There are lots of clothing merchants at > events, but not many actually have undergarments made of linen. I > thought I'd fill that niche, when I went to Merchant last weekend, > with the sewing on commission as a side business. But now I have 13 > clients; 11 wanting a minimum of two garments. One client wants tudor > from the skin out by 12th night (1/7-9 2005) and another client wants > a t tunic by mid November (thank goodness at least 1 easy project!). > Almost all of the rest of my clients want Italian Ren. chemise and > gowns. > I'm still getting over the shock because they all know that I don't > work cheap...I'm glad I love to sew all the things I will be > making!!!!! Over the past several years I've learned that I like > seeing my garb on folks. You see, what had happened is, I'd make the > garb for me, and then when I hit *really* hard times I'd sell my > garments to make money for things like paying the rent...I made the > pleasant discovery that even though I am short, the bodices of my > italian ren seemed to *fit* almost all body types! I draft my own > patterns, and thought that my garb wouldn't really sell because I'm > not particuarly, um...well endowed. Imagine my surprise that even > buxsom ladies fit the bodices of my gowns. *amazed bemusement* > > For my family, I want to make my daughter a new italian ren out of > some gorgeous silk/rayon velevet that's a very luscious purply-blue. > She also needs new camping garb so that's at least 5 new outfits for > her and a new cloak. We've just discovered that she breaks out in > hives when wool touches her skin. She's out grown (tall-wise) > everything I've made...again... > I'd like to make me a tudor from the skin out (for my new persona) out > of some gorgeous red silks I have. Or maybe I'll make it out of the > garnet silk/velvet I have. Oh, I know! I'll do two tudors! > *giggling nervously* I don't think I'll be taking on any more clients > until I get my current clientele served. If I don't look at the > lists, I don't panic so much..."One client, one garment at a time" is > my new working theme. > -- > Slan go foill > Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri > Emer's Needle Wares > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 10:48:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89EmIer029696 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 10:48:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89Elc4d018610 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 08:47:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89ElO9W068497; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 08:47:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89ElL9W068411 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 08:47:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.4.) id 6.1ee.2a31f68c (17526) for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 10:47:04 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1ee.2a31f68c.2e71c6e8@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 10:47:04 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] New McCall's patterns To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/9/2004 9:04:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, judymitch@oldwaylane.net writes: > http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/mccallspatterns/shop.cgi That worked. Yuk. I think these patterns are dreadful. Forget them. It's funny but when I did my 1st Elizabethan thing I just took a man's vest pattern, added a peplum, some shoulder wings and high collar....then took the suit coat sleeves and tied them into the vest armseyes. This looks exactly like what they've done here. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 10:48:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89EmlfY029706 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 10:48:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89EmD4d018669 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 08:48:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89EmC9W069065; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 08:48:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89Em79W068943 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 08:48:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.7.) id 6.e0.abefa3 (17526) for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 10:48:00 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 10:47:59 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] New McCall's patterns To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/9/2004 9:21:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com writes: > Mayhap because it's www.mccall.com -- no S > > Interesting, 'cause a search will get you an "s". _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 11:10:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89FA9KM030176 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 11:10:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89F9Q4d020814 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 09:09:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89F9I9W084291; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 09:09:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.uttyl.edu (mail.uttyl.edu [198.213.56.77]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89F9F9W084146 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 09:09:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Vicki_Betts@mail.uttyl.edu) In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 19th century underwear To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 6.5.2 June 01, 2004 Message-ID: From: Vicki_Betts@mail.uttyl.edu Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 10:14:14 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on UT Tyler Admin/UT Tyler(Release 6.5.2|June 01, 2004) at 09/09/2004 10:13:13 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Pants as outerwear. Evidently both women trying to pass as men, and women just dressing up on a lark but out in public. Vicki Betts vbetts@gower.net > From: Vicki_Betts@mail.uttyl.edu > > It was not only frowned upon, it was against the law for women to wear > pants in many American cities during the 1860s. Were they arresting women for pants-as-outerwear or for pants-as-underwear? Lauren _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 11:25:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89FPPuF030382 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 11:25:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89FOf4d022573 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 09:24:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89FOI9W095825; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 09:24:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.205]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89FNw9W095580 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 09:23:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goddessandqueen@gmail.com) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 76so365069rnk for ; Thu, 09 Sep 2004 08:23:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.59.62 with SMTP id h62mr1233439rna; Thu, 09 Sep 2004 08:23:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.81.49 with HTTP; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 08:23:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6107d9c1040909082324bfce57@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 10:23:51 -0500 From: pixel To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] v-neck gowns In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <4138A9AC.3020800@thibault.org> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 3 Sep 2004 13:07:33 -0500 (CDT), Robin Netherton wrote: > > On Fri, 3 Sep 2004, Cynthia Virtue wrote: > > > However, a full interior fur lining would make the garments very thick > > through the body, especially considering how wide they are to be > > gathered in by the belt. The images are universally narrow through > > the body, not more than one would expect with just fabric layers. > > I've seen fur that's *that* thin. And that's what would have been used. > > The near-universal use of fur linings -- full-body fur linings -- for the > gowns of the nobility in this period is well documented (from period > accounts, inventories, laws, and guild regulations, not just pictures). > Elspeth Veale is the best starting point. Reading that book -- and it's a > good read, too, not dry at all -- changed the way I look at clothing from > this period. > > This is why I'm planning on lining one of these dresses with a > furry-surface napped wool fabric. It's closer in weight to a fine fur than > any fur I could afford. Though truth is, the fur was probably finer and > more compressible than even the wool will be. > > --Robin > Indeed. I have a handful (literally) of grey squirrel peelings that are going to be trim or hood lining once I figure out what I'm going to do with them, and not only is the fur itself fairly fine but the actual skin is pretty thin as well. I imagine that if it was scraped carefully during the tanning process you could get it really thin without too much trouble. The bunny peelings that will supplement the squirrel are similarly thin and fine, though not as fine and soft as ermine. I crumpled two of the squirrel skins together in my hand to see how thick they are when they're gathered, and they seem to be about as thick as the wool flannel lining of my cloak, maybe a little less. The skins themselves are between 6 and 8 inches wide, spread out flat. Incidentally, people who do fur linings tell me that you want to secure the fur to the fabric that it's lining, or to a backing fabric, or it will tear under its own weight. The conversation was about bunnies, but I imagine it would apply to squirrels as well. So you'd get regular vertical seams where you'd attached the fur to the fabric, as well as regular seams in the lining where the skins were pieced. Pixel/Margaret _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 11:36:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89FapV7030440 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 11:36:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89Fa64d023753 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 09:36:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89FZ79W004786; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 09:35:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web50610.mail.yahoo.com (web50610.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.249]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i89FYR9W004276 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 09:34:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Message-ID: <20040909153420.13357.qmail@web50610.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.49.146.76] by web50610.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 09 Sep 2004 11:34:20 EDT Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 11:34:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Kathy Page To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200409090852.i898qM9W093509@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Heel question (crossposted) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The only heeled shoes I can think of and this is perhaps where it is coming from, are riding boots. Queen Elizabeth's buskins are extant and clearly have heels, but then again riding boots would. Perhaps the art or whatever in question happens to be equestrian in content? Just my two cents from my limited knowledge on the subject. Kathy > Marc Carlson wrote: > > > Over the weekend I was teaching a class on shoes > and someone mentioned > > that they'd seen a note to a list (either this > one, or Authentic SCA, > > or something very similar - I neglected to write > it down) in which the > > writer said that they had seen evidence for 15th > century heels. I've > > been looking for this message, but am not finding > it. If anyone has > > any clue what I'm talking about, please let me > know :) > > > > Marc/Diarmaid ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 12:11:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89GB6QG030772 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:11:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89G8K4d027249 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 10:08:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89G8E9W031953; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 10:08:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f40.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89G8A9W031817 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 10:08:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 08:57:20 -0700 Received: from 129.244.6.162 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 09 Sep 2004 15:57:20 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.162] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 10:57:20 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Sep 2004 15:57:20.0290 (UTC) FILETIME=[B01FB020:01C49685] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Heel question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO From: michael tartaglio >Hi, Marc. In some of the illustrations that Gerry Embleton shows for his >15th Cent. group "The Companye of Saint George" he shows shoes with, most >probably, clouted on patches on the heel and under the ball of the foot. >These reinforcements are sometimes trotted out by folks looking to document >pre-late 16th cent Western European heel risers, but that isn't the case. >You can see some illos that show this on pg. 12 of his and John Howe's >"The Medieval Soldier" book. However, neither he nor John nor, for that >matter, anyone in their group ever to my knowledge has trotted this out as >documentation of pre late 16th cent. heels per se. Hope this helps, Mike T. Oh, I'm fairly certain that this is what was beting referrd to, but unless I can find the actual posting, I can't be positive. As an aside, double-soled shoes are occasionally mentioned in the (sparse) 14th century medieval literature, which suggests that while the added outer sole might have been initially used for repairs (clouting), they were later used as a typical option for a new shoe. (Curiously this is also the pattern that occured in the 19th century introducing added outer "tapp" soles to modern welted construction shoes - first a repair, then an option). I've seen examples where the outer soles were clearly being put over unworn inner soles. However, as you say, these are still not "raised heels". Marc _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 12:43:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89GhVGQ031105 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:43:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89GfL4d001416 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 10:41:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89Gf79W058651; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 10:41:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89Gel9X058405 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 10:40:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i89GctTA029744 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:38:56 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 09 Sep 2004 12:38:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4140878C.1060802@thibault.org> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 12:40:44 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] PS on underwear References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A0F@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A0F@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Teddy wrote: >>I opened up a new brand of pad this month and was astounded >>to find that the wings sealed not with adhesive strips, but >>with *velcro.* > Well, if they do it on disposable nappies for babies, why not on pads > for women. Different orientation of fastening -- around the hips for babies, onto underwear for women. I can go into detail if needed, but off list. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent For nonsqueamish gourmets: "At peace with my role in the food chain" BBQ Apron -- http://www.cafepress.com/virtueventures _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 13:11:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89HB6vV031191 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:11:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89HAO4d004646 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 11:10:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89HAJ9W081969; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 11:10:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.suscom.net (smtp1.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89HAF9X081802 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 11:10:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (smtp1 [127.0.0.1]) by smtp1.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 703B1D8324 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:06:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp1.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp1 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 11650-08 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:06:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.78.64.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp1.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 24098D8335 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:06:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <05a801c4968f$d63a6f20$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A0F@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> <4140878C.1060802@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] PS on underwear Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:09:59 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia Virtue" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 12:40 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] PS on underwear > Teddy wrote: > > >>I opened up a new brand of pad this month and was astounded > >>to find that the wings sealed not with adhesive strips, but > >>with *velcro.* > > Well, if they do it on disposable nappies for babies, why not on pads > > for women. Lack of pubic hair on babies! (ouch ouch) Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 13:12:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89HCda5031202 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:12:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89HC24d004786 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 11:12:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89HBc9W082976; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 11:11:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com ([199.170.202.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89HBC9W082650 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 11:11:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i89HViTP027280 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:31:44 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: (from sfarmer@localhost) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3/Submit) id i89HVi29027279 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:31:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:31:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Farmer Message-Id: <200409091731.i89HVi29027279@sabre.goldsword.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 19th century underwear In-Reply-To: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > From: Vicki_Betts@mail.uttyl.edu > > > > > It was not only frowned upon, it was against the law for women to wear > > pants in many American cities during the 1860s. I've run across newspaper > > articles about quite a few women getting hauled into court and fined the > > rough equivalent of a week's pay ($6-$10 in Memphis) for daring to wear > > pants, unless they had military orders proving that they were vivandieres. > > Full "bloomer" reform dress, with the short skirt, just seemed to attract > > ridicule, however. I've mainly seen that attire associated with the > > North. > > Were they arresting women for pants-as-outerwear or for pants-as-underwear? > Lauren I can't speak to the getting arrested part; but as late as the 1960's there were girls at my high school (class of 1971) that wore dresses in gym class because they wouldn't wear pants or even shorts. They weren't Mennonite, but it was some religious denominational rule. Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 13:16:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89HGb5R031229 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:16:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89HFw4d005315 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 11:15:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89HFu9W086424; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 11:15:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com ([199.170.202.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89HFq9W086367 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 11:15:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i89HaQTP027353 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:36:26 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: (from sfarmer@localhost) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3/Submit) id i89HaQtY027352 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:36:26 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:36:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Farmer Message-Id: <200409091736.i89HaQtY027352@sabre.goldsword.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? In-Reply-To: <3431F1EE-026F-11D9-996B-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > How does one get into this type of sewing business? It sounds a lot > more lucrative than my online business which caters to the goth and > belly dance markets. When I started my business in about 1997 I > thought it would eventually take off and I could live off of it but it > has never progresses further than bringing me in an order about once > every 2 weeks. I have never been involved in Renn faires or the SCA or > anything like that. Any suggestions on where to start? My guess would be to at least cultivate RenFaire or SCA clientele if you don't want to get involved there. People can't use a service if they don't know that it exists. Jerusha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 13:18:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89HI9m2031247 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:18:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89HHS4d005539 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 11:17:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89HHR9W087711; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 11:17:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com ([199.170.202.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89HHI9W087590 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 11:17:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i89HbqTP027365 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:37:52 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: (from sfarmer@localhost) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3/Submit) id i89Hbqnn027364 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:37:52 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:37:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Farmer Message-Id: <200409091737.i89Hbqnn027364@sabre.goldsword.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] New McCall's patterns In-Reply-To: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > In a message dated 9/9/2004 9:21:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, > sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com writes: > > > Mayhap because it's www.mccall.com -- no S > > > > > > Interesting, 'cause a search will get you an "s". Who knows! I googled and got the top page of butterick.com and then opened McCall's in a new window -- and that's where the above URL came from. They may have purchased both domains. I know that I've tried to go to www.mccalls.com before and the link wouldn't work. Just a Web Thang I guess. Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 13:37:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89HbL7T031472 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:37:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89HaE4d007663 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 11:36:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89HZu9W003093; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 11:35:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web53402.mail.yahoo.com (web53402.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.37.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i89HZp9W003002 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 11:35:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from carolscostuming5@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040909173545.34339.qmail@web53402.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [64.107.2.63] by web53402.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 09 Sep 2004 10:35:45 PDT Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 10:35:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Carol Mitchell To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200409080102.i8812Bvl050128@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] reenactment societies X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As I'm on digest, I may have missed some replies, but do you have: Markland The Adrian Empire Amtgard The Richard III Society The Richard III Foundation All the others I'm aware of reenact later periods. Also, Cynthia Virtue did an article on reenactment groups a few years ago-has she been heard from? Carol Carol Mitchell listowner Costumemidwest www.yahoogroups.com/group/costumemidwest --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 13:44:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89Hi8rT031481 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:44:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89HhS4d008576 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 11:43:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89HhN9W008787; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 11:43:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.suscom.net (smtp1.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89HhH9X008641 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 11:43:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (smtp1 [127.0.0.1]) by smtp1.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B15AD877C for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:39:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp1.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp1 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 17472-08 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:39:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.78.64.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp1.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 3A3E6D878D for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:39:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <070201c49694$7477a1e0$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200409091731.i89HVi29027279@sabre.goldsword.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 19th century underwear Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:43:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Farmer" To: Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 1:31 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 19th century underwear > I can't speak to the getting arrested part; but as late as the 1960's there > were girls at my high school (class of 1971) that wore dresses in gym class > because they wouldn't wear pants or even shorts. They weren't Mennonite, > but it was some religious denominational rule. My sister went to school with a girl who belonged to the Assembly of God church and she was not allowed to wear pants or shorts. Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 13:45:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89Hjac8031486 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:45:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89HiW4d008679 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 11:44:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89HiT9W009659; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 11:44:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89HiB9X009422 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 11:44:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i89HgKTA030895 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:42:20 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 09 Sep 2004 13:42:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <41409668.9080506@thibault.org> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 13:44:08 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] reenactment societies References: <20040909173545.34339.qmail@web53402.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040909173545.34339.qmail@web53402.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Carol Mitchell wrote: > All the others I'm aware of reenact later periods. Also, Cynthia Virtue did an article on reenactment groups a few years ago-has she been heard from? Yep, I sent her the URL off list. I took the article off links from my site because it's now really old (netwise) and I don't feel like redoing it to bring it current. But it might be useful for her purposes. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Register to vote! Don't let that other guy win! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 14:03:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89I364P031581 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:03:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89I264d010568 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:02:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89I229W023560; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:02:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89I209W023536 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:02:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.145] (p33.3c03.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.145]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i89I0ge12314 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:00:42 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <200409091736.i89HaQtY027352@sabre.goldsword.com> References: <200409091736.i89HaQtY027352@sabre.goldsword.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:05:52 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, it has naturally occurred to me that I should start going to Renn Faires and I keep thinking of doing that every summer when there is one here in the Denver area. But I guess my real questions are: 1) does one just walk around a Renn faire in a good costume and get work? Do people just come up to you and ask you to make them a costume? 2) If not, are there other additional ways of getting involved? 3) What other groups are helpful to look into besides the Renn faire circuit and the SCA? On Sep 9, 2004, at 11:36 AM, Susan Farmer wrote: >> >> How does one get into this type of sewing business? It sounds a lot >> more lucrative than my online business which caters to the goth and >> belly dance markets. When I started my business in about 1997 I >> thought it would eventually take off and I could live off of it but it >> has never progresses further than bringing me in an order about once >> every 2 weeks. I have never been involved in Renn faires or the SCA >> or >> anything like that. Any suggestions on where to start? > > My guess would be to at least cultivate RenFaire or SCA clientele if > you > don't want to get involved there. People can't use a service if they > don't > know that it exists. > > Jerusha > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 14:26:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89IQJJI031708 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:26:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89IPS4d012949 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:25:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89IPO9W041454; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:25:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (chori.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89IPL9W041349 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:25:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ldownward@chori.org) X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Sophos http://raeinternet.com/mpp Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP-TLS id 1385545 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Sep 2004 11:25:15 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.0.0.040405 Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 11:25:15 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I know from experience that if you show up at the California Ren faires in an incredible outfit as a visitor the court people will want to get to know you. If you say that you're a costumer and wouldn't mind work for anyone who needs an outfit for next year and spread your business cards around, you'll probably get some work, especially if the group is organized and keep a list of available costumers. We tend to work inside the group (I haven't worked the faires for a while now, but that's what we did), but there's often times when the known costumers are too busy and you'll get work. Once you've proven yourself by giving a wonderfully fitted, beautiful dress, people will remember your name and give you work. LynnD St. George Retired, RPF-N > From: Sylvia Rognstad > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:05:52 -0600 > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? > > Well, it has naturally occurred to me that I should start going to Renn > Faires and I keep thinking of doing that every summer when there is one > here in the Denver area. But I guess my real questions are: 1) does > one just walk around a Renn faire in a good costume and get work? Do > people just come up to you and ask you to make them a costume? 2) If > not, are there other additional ways of getting involved? 3) What > other groups are helpful to look into besides the Renn faire circuit > and the SCA? > > On Sep 9, 2004, at 11:36 AM, Susan Farmer wrote: > >>> >>> How does one get into this type of sewing business? It sounds a lot >>> more lucrative than my online business which caters to the goth and >>> belly dance markets. When I started my business in about 1997 I >>> thought it would eventually take off and I could live off of it but it >>> has never progresses further than bringing me in an order about once >>> every 2 weeks. I have never been involved in Renn faires or the SCA >>> or >>> anything like that. Any suggestions on where to start? >> >> My guess would be to at least cultivate RenFaire or SCA clientele if >> you >> don't want to get involved there. People can't use a service if they >> don't >> know that it exists. >> >> Jerusha >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 14:41:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89IfODw031782 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:41:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89IeB4d014495 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:40:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89Ie39W052677; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:40:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89Ie09W052628 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:40:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.19] (p03.3c01.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.19]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i89Icfe15530 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:38:41 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <31E8DD30-0290-11D9-996B-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:43:51 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO When you say an incredible outfit, do you mean a nobility type garment as opposed to the peasant type garb? I know I can make one, as I have done so as a theatrical costumer on Shakespeare productions. Do people other than those working the faires walk around in those types of costumes? On Sep 9, 2004, at 12:25 PM, Lynn Downward wrote: > I know from experience that if you show up at the California Ren > faires in > an incredible outfit as a visitor the court people will want to get to > know > you. If you say that you're a costumer and wouldn't mind work for > anyone who > needs an outfit for next year and spread your business cards around, > you'll > probably get some work, especially if the group is organized and keep > a list > of available costumers. We tend to work inside the group (I haven't > worked > the faires for a while now, but that's what we did), but there's often > times > when the known costumers are too busy and you'll get work. Once you've > proven yourself by giving a wonderfully fitted, beautiful dress, > people will > remember your name and give you work. > > LynnD > St. George > Retired, RPF-N > > >> From: Sylvia Rognstad >> Reply-To: Historical Costume >> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:05:52 -0600 >> To: Historical Costume >> Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? >> >> Well, it has naturally occurred to me that I should start going to >> Renn >> Faires and I keep thinking of doing that every summer when there is >> one >> here in the Denver area. But I guess my real questions are: 1) does >> one just walk around a Renn faire in a good costume and get work? Do >> people just come up to you and ask you to make them a costume? 2) >> If >> not, are there other additional ways of getting involved? 3) What >> other groups are helpful to look into besides the Renn faire circuit >> and the SCA? >> >> On Sep 9, 2004, at 11:36 AM, Susan Farmer wrote: >> >>>> >>>> How does one get into this type of sewing business? It sounds a lot >>>> more lucrative than my online business which caters to the goth and >>>> belly dance markets. When I started my business in about 1997 I >>>> thought it would eventually take off and I could live off of it but >>>> it >>>> has never progresses further than bringing me in an order about once >>>> every 2 weeks. I have never been involved in Renn faires or the SCA >>>> or >>>> anything like that. Any suggestions on where to start? >>> >>> My guess would be to at least cultivate RenFaire or SCA clientele if >>> you >>> don't want to get involved there. People can't use a service if they >>> don't >>> know that it exists. >>> >>> Jerusha >>> _______________________________________________ >>> h-costume mailing list >>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 14:41:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89IfVet031786 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:41:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89Ien4d014584 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:40:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89Iek9W053249; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:40:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mailrelay.t-mobile.com (m018e36d0.tmodns.net [208.54.142.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89Ie19W052606 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:40:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from webwarren@earthlink.net) Received: from jessica2.webwarren.com (unknown [10.222.86.245]) by mailrelay.t-mobile.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AA98189D6 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 11:23:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.0.20040909142457.067f7a90@earthlink.net> X-Sender: n2kye@mail.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 14:38:26 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Subject: Women/girls and pants (WAS: Re: [h-cost] 19th century underwear) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In the early '70's, when pants for girls was already pretty much accepted/acceptable in the public schools, one of my neighbors sent their daughter to the local Orthodox Yeshiva for her first year of Junior High. I don't remember all the details, but it was either that the girls didn't have gym at all, or they had a rather limited/modified PE curriculum conducted with them wearing dresses/skirts, because it was immodest (not to mention "cross-dressing") for a woman to wear pants, and it would have been VERY immodest for the girls' underwear to be showing. (Interestingly enough, this issue did NOT seem to exist for the summer camp they ran, which I attended one year as a child: both the girls and the female counselors had no issues whatsoever with wearing shorts, and since this was before "Daisy Dukes", there really wasn't a modesty problem with one's shorts showing one's underwear -- or lack thereof.) Except for that summer camp, it wasn't until I got to University in the late '70's that I knew any Orthodox girls/women who would wear pants for any reason (usually to their lab classes, for practical reasons). As long as the pants were purchased in the women's departments (Junior/Miss/Women's/etc.) they were fine. OTOH, to this day I don't think I have EVER seen a Chassidic women (of any of several Chassidic sects) wearing pants... Hmm... a thought... considering that a lot of modern Chassidic dress (especially for the men) is considered to have been taken (and not much modified) from the styles that were current to the areas of Eastern Europe from which those sects arose, how closely related is Chassidic dress to historical dress/costume? (Has anyone really done a comparison of current and when-founded styles of the various Chassidic sects?) Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 14:54:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89IsgZi031832 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:54:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89IrQ4d015908 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:53:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89IrL9W063088; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:53:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (chori.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89IrI9W062995 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:53:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ldownward@chori.org) X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Sophos http://raeinternet.com/mpp Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP-TLS id 1385737 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Sep 2004 11:53:12 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.0.0.040405 Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 11:53:12 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <31E8DD30-0290-11D9-996B-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Again, I'm only using my own experience so yes, I'm talking about court clothing. In the past, when we (in court) have seen visitors in wonderfully well done court dresses, we've introduced ourselves and asked about the dress - who did it, where the idea came from, how they got "that bit" to work so well, etc. If we have fewer actors than usual that day, visitors with outstanding clothing have been invited to join our progress through the faire to the Queen's show. Please remember I cannot speak for the past 5-6 years. Things may have changed. LynnD > From: Sylvia Rognstad > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:43:51 -0600 > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? > > When you say an incredible outfit, do you mean a nobility type garment > as opposed to the peasant type garb? I know I can make one, as I have > done so as a theatrical costumer on Shakespeare productions. Do people > other than those working the faires walk around in those types of > costumes? > > > On Sep 9, 2004, at 12:25 PM, Lynn Downward wrote: > >> I know from experience that if you show up at the California Ren >> faires in >> an incredible outfit as a visitor the court people will want to get to >> know >> you. If you say that you're a costumer and wouldn't mind work for >> anyone who >> needs an outfit for next year and spread your business cards around, >> you'll >> probably get some work, especially if the group is organized and keep >> a list >> of available costumers. We tend to work inside the group (I haven't >> worked >> the faires for a while now, but that's what we did), but there's often >> times >> when the known costumers are too busy and you'll get work. Once you've >> proven yourself by giving a wonderfully fitted, beautiful dress, >> people will >> remember your name and give you work. >> >> LynnD >> St. George >> Retired, RPF-N >> >> >>> From: Sylvia Rognstad >>> Reply-To: Historical Costume >>> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:05:52 -0600 >>> To: Historical Costume >>> Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? >>> >>> Well, it has naturally occurred to me that I should start going to >>> Renn >>> Faires and I keep thinking of doing that every summer when there is >>> one >>> here in the Denver area. But I guess my real questions are: 1) does >>> one just walk around a Renn faire in a good costume and get work? Do >>> people just come up to you and ask you to make them a costume? 2) >>> If >>> not, are there other additional ways of getting involved? 3) What >>> other groups are helpful to look into besides the Renn faire circuit >>> and the SCA? >>> >>> On Sep 9, 2004, at 11:36 AM, Susan Farmer wrote: >>> >>>>> >>>>> How does one get into this type of sewing business? It sounds a lot >>>>> more lucrative than my online business which caters to the goth and >>>>> belly dance markets. When I started my business in about 1997 I >>>>> thought it would eventually take off and I could live off of it but >>>>> it >>>>> has never progresses further than bringing me in an order about once >>>>> every 2 weeks. I have never been involved in Renn faires or the SCA >>>>> or >>>>> anything like that. Any suggestions on where to start? >>>> >>>> My guess would be to at least cultivate RenFaire or SCA clientele if >>>> you >>>> don't want to get involved there. People can't use a service if they >>>> don't >>>> know that it exists. >>>> >>>> Jerusha >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> h-costume mailing list >>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> h-costume mailing list >>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 15:04:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89J4On0031889 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 15:04:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89J3d4d016972 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:03:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89J3aum071164; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:03:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89J3Uum071097 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:03:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA23800 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:10:34 -0500 Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:10:34 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] reenactment societies In-Reply-To: <20040909173545.34339.qmail@web53402.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 9 Sep 2004, Carol Mitchell wrote: > As I'm on digest, I may have missed some replies, but do you have: > Markland > The Adrian Empire > Amtgard > The Richard III Society > The Richard III Foundation Thanks -- I got a couple of these by private reply, but not all. If anyone has snail-mail addresses for these groups (or ideally their publications) within reach, I'd be very grateful for a private email with that info. I'm doing a lot of chasing around trying to get something besides websites and emails. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 15:08:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89J84UJ031901 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 15:08:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89J754d017351 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:07:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89J70um073886; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:07:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89J6sum073782 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:06:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.19] (p03.3c01.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.19]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i89J5Ze17713 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:05:35 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:10:45 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Since Renn faires are usually in the heat of the summer, how does one stand to spend much time walking around in court (thanks for the proper term) dress? On Sep 9, 2004, at 12:53 PM, Lynn Downward wrote: > Again, I'm only using my own experience so yes, I'm talking about court > clothing. In the past, when we (in court) have seen visitors in > wonderfully > well done court dresses, we've introduced ourselves and asked about the > dress - who did it, where the idea came from, how they got "that bit" > to > work so well, etc. If we have fewer actors than usual that day, > visitors > with outstanding clothing have been invited to join our progress > through the > faire to the Queen's show. Please remember I cannot speak for the past > 5-6 > years. Things may have changed. > > LynnD > >> From: Sylvia Rognstad >> Reply-To: Historical Costume >> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:43:51 -0600 >> To: Historical Costume >> Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? >> >> When you say an incredible outfit, do you mean a nobility type garment >> as opposed to the peasant type garb? I know I can make one, as I have >> done so as a theatrical costumer on Shakespeare productions. Do >> people >> other than those working the faires walk around in those types of >> costumes? >> >> >> On Sep 9, 2004, at 12:25 PM, Lynn Downward wrote: >> >>> I know from experience that if you show up at the California Ren >>> faires in >>> an incredible outfit as a visitor the court people will want to get >>> to >>> know >>> you. If you say that you're a costumer and wouldn't mind work for >>> anyone who >>> needs an outfit for next year and spread your business cards around, >>> you'll >>> probably get some work, especially if the group is organized and keep >>> a list >>> of available costumers. We tend to work inside the group (I haven't >>> worked >>> the faires for a while now, but that's what we did), but there's >>> often >>> times >>> when the known costumers are too busy and you'll get work. Once >>> you've >>> proven yourself by giving a wonderfully fitted, beautiful dress, >>> people will >>> remember your name and give you work. >>> >>> LynnD >>> St. George >>> Retired, RPF-N >>> >>> >>>> From: Sylvia Rognstad >>>> Reply-To: Historical Costume >>>> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:05:52 -0600 >>>> To: Historical Costume >>>> Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? >>>> >>>> Well, it has naturally occurred to me that I should start going to >>>> Renn >>>> Faires and I keep thinking of doing that every summer when there is >>>> one >>>> here in the Denver area. But I guess my real questions are: 1) >>>> does >>>> one just walk around a Renn faire in a good costume and get work? >>>> Do >>>> people just come up to you and ask you to make them a costume? 2) >>>> If >>>> not, are there other additional ways of getting involved? 3) What >>>> other groups are helpful to look into besides the Renn faire circuit >>>> and the SCA? >>>> >>>> On Sep 9, 2004, at 11:36 AM, Susan Farmer wrote: >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> How does one get into this type of sewing business? It sounds a >>>>>> lot >>>>>> more lucrative than my online business which caters to the goth >>>>>> and >>>>>> belly dance markets. When I started my business in about 1997 I >>>>>> thought it would eventually take off and I could live off of it >>>>>> but >>>>>> it >>>>>> has never progresses further than bringing me in an order about >>>>>> once >>>>>> every 2 weeks. I have never been involved in Renn faires or the >>>>>> SCA >>>>>> or >>>>>> anything like that. Any suggestions on where to start? >>>>> >>>>> My guess would be to at least cultivate RenFaire or SCA clientele >>>>> if >>>>> you >>>>> don't want to get involved there. People can't use a service if >>>>> they >>>>> don't >>>>> know that it exists. >>>>> >>>>> Jerusha >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> h-costume mailing list >>>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> h-costume mailing list >>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> h-costume mailing list >>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 15:12:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89JCbLe031931 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 15:12:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89JBk4d017850 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:11:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89JBhum077590; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:11:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from simmts8-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts8.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.166]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89JBdum077516 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:11:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([67.68.137.158]) by simmts8-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with SMTP id <20040909190957.HRLR1692.simmts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 15:09:57 -0400 Message-ID: <006501c496a0$370dc6c0$cb6afea9@sherry> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000701c49516$7e5008d0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <200409082159.24841.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 15:07:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hmm, current and future projects? A nice long list, I am a procrastinator. :-) At the present moment, I am cutting out a Burgundian gown from some very dark blue velvet I had inherited more than 5 years ago... Hand sewing and embellishing an Irish Inar (jacket) for my husband. (dark olive green fulled wool with red and yellow wool accent stitching and finger looped red wool trim) Button loops on an orange silk 16th C Turkish coat (Coat is lined with a striped cotton in various shades of orange, red and cream.) Cutting out some white habotai silk for a new shirt to go with the orange coat Plus finishing/repairing a variety of my dance costumes, the school I am with is having a show in September, I should probably have something new by then. Future projects: I have purchased taffeta in dark blue and black for a late Cavalier, early Baroque gown, I also have the boning for the bodice, just need to finish up some of the other projects before I can allow myself to start another one. :-) A variety of banners for the next years events. This list is actually a lot longer, but this is what I am focusing on at the moment... Sheridan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 15:17:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89JH1bI031953 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 15:17:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89JGC4d018329 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:16:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89JG8um081194; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:16:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89JG5um081091 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:16:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gia_gavino@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.113 ([204.127.197.113]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <2004090919155901400m9qdse>; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 19:15:59 +0000 Received: from [24.16.244.181] by 204.127.197.113; Thu, 09 Sep 2004 19:15:57 +0000 From: gia_gavino@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 19:15:57 +0000 Message-Id: <090920041915.3450.4140ABEC000CA77700000D7A2200745672010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Jul 16 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: Z2lhX2dhdmlub0Bjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] sewing commissions was current and future work? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi! Well, I guess the first thing to do is Make costumes for your friends who participate in the forums you are aiming for. Get your stuff out for the folks to see...make sure they look great, wear well and can hold up to heavy wear and tear. I actually got into the commissions business by *accident* and I certainly don't know how long it will last, either. I just love to sew costumes (including the handsewing) and if people want me to spend their money to do what I love...I'll gladly help them! I am really good at helping my friends spend their money..on fabrics and stuff! *LOL!* But seriously, I had to sell alot of my "old/used" garb to raise money and sold much of what I had in the price range from $25 to $150. And I was actually very surprised my gowns really *did* fit other ladies with little or no alterations, no matter what body type they were. Many of the gowns I've sold are for tourney wear, but they look like you could wear it to court. Typically it's well known that the things I make are *usually* machine wash and dry...And the one thing I kept hearing not only from the ladies who bought my old garb, but from the new clients: they'd seen my work and think that my work was beautiful. I certainly won't argue with that! Plus the fact I've always been a fanatic about costuming in all areas researching and then using period techniques and materials almost always. When I can't use period techniques and materials, I try for the most authentic appearance. My friends have told me that I have a big reputation for being a really nutty costumer who researches the garb before making them and can make the garb quickly and well-made... I don't know where they got the idea that I'm nutty....*grin*! -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > Well, it has naturally occurred to me that I should start going to Renn > Faires and I keep thinking of doing that every summer when there is one > here in the Denver area. But I guess my real questions are: 1) does > one just walk around a Renn faire in a good costume and get work? Do > people just come up to you and ask you to make them a costume? 2) If > not, are there other additional ways of getting involved? 3) What > other groups are helpful to look into besides the Renn faire circuit > and the SCA? > > On Sep 9, 2004, at 11:36 AM, Susan Farmer wrote: > > >> > >> How does one get into this type of sewing business? It sounds a lot > >> more lucrative than my online business which caters to the goth and > >> belly dance markets. When I started my business in about 1997 I > >> thought it would eventually take off and I could live off of it but it > >> has never progresses further than bringing me in an order about once > >> every 2 weeks. I have never been involved in Renn faires or the SCA > >> or > >> anything like that. Any suggestions on where to start? > > > > My guess would be to at least cultivate RenFaire or SCA clientele if > > you > > don't want to get involved there. People can't use a service if they > > don't > > know that it exists. > > > > Jerusha > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 15:23:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89JNMxF031988 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 15:23:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89JMG4d018978 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:22:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89JMBBh085699; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:22:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (chori.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89JM8Bh085607 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:22:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ldownward@chori.org) X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Sophos http://raeinternet.com/mpp Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP-TLS id 1385867 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Sep 2004 12:22:02 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.0.0.040405 Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 12:22:02 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Joan, Chris, pop in here any time before or whnever I say something that isn't currently acurate. (chuckle) LOTS of water, staying in shade as much as possible, good fitting (read non-chafing) clothing, no running -- with or without scissors, and most importantly of all, natural fabrics. You know all this already, I'm sure. A lightweight wool will always be more comfortable than a polyblend anything. I like silk chemises, but others swear that linen is cooler than silk. Either one is actually cooler than cotton, I've found. And like any historic or centemporary outfit, cheap trim or fabric will make well-made clothing look like trash. Don't skimp. Please remember I'm talking about Northern California during its hottest time of the year. The clothing I'm talking about is also the flashiest at the faire and given the most scrunity. It will weigh upwards of 25 pounds. LynnD > From: Sylvia Rognstad > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:10:45 -0600 > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? > > Since Renn faires are usually in the heat of the summer, how does one > stand to spend much time walking around in court (thanks for the proper > term) dress? > > On Sep 9, 2004, at 12:53 PM, Lynn Downward wrote: > >> Again, I'm only using my own experience so yes, I'm talking about court >> clothing. In the past, when we (in court) have seen visitors in >> wonderfully >> well done court dresses, we've introduced ourselves and asked about the >> dress - who did it, where the idea came from, how they got "that bit" >> to >> work so well, etc. If we have fewer actors than usual that day, >> visitors >> with outstanding clothing have been invited to join our progress >> through the >> faire to the Queen's show. Please remember I cannot speak for the past >> 5-6 >> years. Things may have changed. >> >> LynnD >> >>> From: Sylvia Rognstad >>> Reply-To: Historical Costume >>> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:43:51 -0600 >>> To: Historical Costume >>> Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? >>> >>> When you say an incredible outfit, do you mean a nobility type garment >>> as opposed to the peasant type garb? I know I can make one, as I have >>> done so as a theatrical costumer on Shakespeare productions. Do >>> people >>> other than those working the faires walk around in those types of >>> costumes? >>> >>> >>> On Sep 9, 2004, at 12:25 PM, Lynn Downward wrote: >>> >>>> I know from experience that if you show up at the California Ren >>>> faires in >>>> an incredible outfit as a visitor the court people will want to get >>>> to >>>> know >>>> you. If you say that you're a costumer and wouldn't mind work for >>>> anyone who >>>> needs an outfit for next year and spread your business cards around, >>>> you'll >>>> probably get some work, especially if the group is organized and keep >>>> a list >>>> of available costumers. We tend to work inside the group (I haven't >>>> worked >>>> the faires for a while now, but that's what we did), but there's >>>> often >>>> times >>>> when the known costumers are too busy and you'll get work. Once >>>> you've >>>> proven yourself by giving a wonderfully fitted, beautiful dress, >>>> people will >>>> remember your name and give you work. >>>> >>>> LynnD >>>> St. George >>>> Retired, RPF-N >>>> >>>> >>>>> From: Sylvia Rognstad >>>>> Reply-To: Historical Costume >>>>> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:05:52 -0600 >>>>> To: Historical Costume >>>>> Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? >>>>> >>>>> Well, it has naturally occurred to me that I should start going to >>>>> Renn >>>>> Faires and I keep thinking of doing that every summer when there is >>>>> one >>>>> here in the Denver area. But I guess my real questions are: 1) >>>>> does >>>>> one just walk around a Renn faire in a good costume and get work? >>>>> Do >>>>> people just come up to you and ask you to make them a costume? 2) >>>>> If >>>>> not, are there other additional ways of getting involved? 3) What >>>>> other groups are helpful to look into besides the Renn faire circuit >>>>> and the SCA? >>>>> >>>>> On Sep 9, 2004, at 11:36 AM, Susan Farmer wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> How does one get into this type of sewing business? It sounds a >>>>>>> lot >>>>>>> more lucrative than my online business which caters to the goth >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> belly dance markets. When I started my business in about 1997 I >>>>>>> thought it would eventually take off and I could live off of it >>>>>>> but >>>>>>> it >>>>>>> has never progresses further than bringing me in an order about >>>>>>> once >>>>>>> every 2 weeks. I have never been involved in Renn faires or the >>>>>>> SCA >>>>>>> or >>>>>>> anything like that. Any suggestions on where to start? >>>>>> >>>>>> My guess would be to at least cultivate RenFaire or SCA clientele >>>>>> if >>>>>> you >>>>>> don't want to get involved there. People can't use a service if >>>>>> they >>>>>> don't >>>>>> know that it exists. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jerusha >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> h-costume mailing list >>>>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>>>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> h-costume mailing list >>>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> h-costume mailing list >>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> h-costume mailing list >>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 15:30:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89JUO3r032021 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 15:30:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89JTY4d019882 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:29:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89JTUBh091435; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:29:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89JTQBh091250 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:29:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1C5Ubb-0000Pt-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Sep 2004 19:29:15 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 20:27:59 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: Women/girls and pants (WAS: Re: [h-cost] 19th century underwear) References: <6.1.2.0.0.20040909142457.067f7a90@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20040909142457.067f7a90@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A point I always like to keep in mind when discussing modesty and women and trousers (pants): remember in large parts of the world trousers are traditional for women, and men wear long robes. If it's about Orthodox Jewish custom, what were they wearing in the Middle East in Old Testament times? I'm just wondering, if the sects are interpreting something in scripture that says "Women should not dress like men", what did the scripture actually mean? Wouldn't it be ironic if it meant "Women should wear trousers and not go bare-legged under a floor-length skirt-shaped garment". Jean Brenda Bell wrote >In the early '70's, when pants for girls was already pretty much >accepted/acceptable in the public schools, one of my neighbors sent >their daughter to the local Orthodox Yeshiva for her first year of >Junior High. I don't remember all the details, but it was either that >the girls didn't have gym at all, or they had a rather limited/modified >PE curriculum conducted with them wearing dresses/skirts, because it >was immodest (not to mention "cross-dressing") for a woman to wear >pants, and it would have been VERY immodest for the girls' underwear to >be showing. (Interestingly enough, this issue did NOT seem to exist for >the summer camp they ran, which I attended one year as a child: both >the girls and the female counselors had no issues whatsoever with >wearing shorts, and since this was before "Daisy Dukes", there really >wasn't a modesty problem with one's shorts showing one's underwear -- >or lack thereof.) > >Except for that summer camp, it wasn't until I got to University in the >late '70's that I knew any Orthodox girls/women who would wear pants >for any reason (usually to their lab classes, for practical reasons). >As long as the pants were purchased in the women's departments >(Junior/Miss/Women's/etc.) they were fine. OTOH, to this day I don't >think I have EVER seen a Chassidic women (of any of several Chassidic >sects) wearing pants... > >Hmm... a thought... considering that a lot of modern Chassidic dress >(especially for the men) is considered to have been taken (and not much >modified) from the styles that were current to the areas of Eastern >Europe from which those sects arose, how closely related is Chassidic >dress to historical dress/costume? (Has anyone really done a comparison >of current and when-founded styles of the various Chassidic sects?) > > > >Brenda >webwarren@earthlink.net > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 16:12:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89KCPZD032261 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 16:12:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89KBN4d024346 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:11:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89K9qBh022436; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:10:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89K9gBh022300 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:09:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.188] (p28.3c04.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.188]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i89K8Le22616 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:08:21 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <090920041915.3450.4140ABEC000CA77700000D7A2200745672010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> References: <090920041915.3450.4140ABEC000CA77700000D7A2200745672010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Message-Id: From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] sewing commissions was current and future work? Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:13:30 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i89K9gBh022300 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I dont have any friends who are into anything that is connected with wearing costumes. Guess I just need to go to the next renn faire, but that isnt until next summer. Are there other events to attend during the off seasons? On Sep 9, 2004, at 1:15 PM, gia_gavino@comcast.net wrote: > Hi! Well, I guess the first thing to do is Make costumes for your > friends who participate in the forums you are aiming for. Get your > stuff out for the folks to see...make sure they look great, wear well > and can hold up to heavy wear and tear. > I actually got into the commissions business by *accident* and I > certainly don't know how long it will last, either. I just love to > sew costumes (including the handsewing) and if people want me to spend > their money to do what I love...I'll gladly help them! I am really > good at helping my friends spend their money..on fabrics and stuff! > *LOL!* > But seriously, I had to sell alot of my "old/used" garb to raise money > and sold much of what I had in the price range from $25 to $150. And I > was actually very surprised my gowns really *did* fit other ladies > with little or no alterations, no matter what body type they were. > Many of the gowns I've sold are for tourney wear, but they look like > you could wear it to court. Typically it's well known that the things > I make are *usually* machine wash and dry...And the one thing I kept > hearing not only from the ladies who bought my old garb, but from the > new clients: they'd seen my work and think that my work was beautiful. > I certainly won't argue with that! > Plus the fact I've always been a fanatic about costuming in all areas > researching and then using period techniques and materials almost > always. When I can't use period techniques and materials, I try for > the most authentic appearance. My friends have told me that I have a > big reputation for being a really nutty costumer who researches the > garb before making them and can make the garb quickly and well-made... > I don't know where they got the idea that I'm nutty....*grin*! > -- > Slan go foill > Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri > Emer's Needle Wares > > > -------------- Original message -------------- > >> Well, it has naturally occurred to me that I should start going to >> Renn >> Faires and I keep thinking of doing that every summer when there is >> one >> here in the Denver area. But I guess my real questions are: 1) does >> one just walk around a Renn faire in a good costume and get work? Do >> people just come up to you and ask you to make them a costume? 2) If >> not, are there other additional ways of getting involved? 3) What >> other groups are helpful to look into besides the Renn faire circuit >> and the SCA? >> >> On Sep 9, 2004, at 11:36 AM, Susan Farmer wrote: >> >>>> >>>> How does one get into this type of sewing business? It sounds a lot >>>> more lucrative than my online business which caters to the goth and >>>> belly dance markets. When I started my business in about 1997 I >>>> thought it would eventually take off and I could live off of it but >>>> it >>>> has never progresses further than bringing me in an order about once >>>> every 2 weeks. I have never been involved in Renn faires or the SCA >>>> or >>>> anything like that. Any suggestions on where to start? >>> >>> My guess would be to at least cultivate RenFaire or SCA clientele if >>> you >>> don't want to get involved there. People can't use a service if they >>> don't >>> know that it exists. >>> >>> Jerusha >>> _______________________________________________ >>> h-costume mailing list >>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 16:12:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89KCpQf032270 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 16:12:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89KBw4d024419 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:11:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89KBtBh024009; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:11:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89KAdBh022983 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:10:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.188] (p28.3c04.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.188]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i89K9Ie22708 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:09:18 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:14:30 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-DCC-SINECTIS-Metrics: net.indra.com 1114; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sounds like torture. Can one still have fun dressed like that? On Sep 9, 2004, at 1:22 PM, Lynn Downward wrote: > Joan, Chris, pop in here any time before or whnever I say something > that > isn't currently acurate. > > (chuckle) LOTS of water, staying in shade as much as possible, good > fitting > (read non-chafing) clothing, no running -- with or without scissors, > and > most importantly of all, natural fabrics. You know all this already, > I'm > sure. A lightweight wool will always be more comfortable than a > polyblend > anything. I like silk chemises, but others swear that linen is cooler > than > silk. Either one is actually cooler than cotton, I've found. > > And like any historic or centemporary outfit, cheap trim or fabric > will make > well-made clothing look like trash. Don't skimp. > > Please remember I'm talking about Northern California during its > hottest > time of the year. The clothing I'm talking about is also the flashiest > at > the faire and given the most scrunity. It will weigh upwards of 25 > pounds. > > LynnD > >> From: Sylvia Rognstad >> Reply-To: Historical Costume >> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:10:45 -0600 >> To: Historical Costume >> Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? >> >> Since Renn faires are usually in the heat of the summer, how does one >> stand to spend much time walking around in court (thanks for the >> proper >> term) dress? >> >> On Sep 9, 2004, at 12:53 PM, Lynn Downward wrote: >> >>> Again, I'm only using my own experience so yes, I'm talking about >>> court >>> clothing. In the past, when we (in court) have seen visitors in >>> wonderfully >>> well done court dresses, we've introduced ourselves and asked about >>> the >>> dress - who did it, where the idea came from, how they got "that bit" >>> to >>> work so well, etc. If we have fewer actors than usual that day, >>> visitors >>> with outstanding clothing have been invited to join our progress >>> through the >>> faire to the Queen's show. Please remember I cannot speak for the >>> past >>> 5-6 >>> years. Things may have changed. >>> >>> LynnD >>> >>>> From: Sylvia Rognstad >>>> Reply-To: Historical Costume >>>> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:43:51 -0600 >>>> To: Historical Costume >>>> Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? >>>> >>>> When you say an incredible outfit, do you mean a nobility type >>>> garment >>>> as opposed to the peasant type garb? I know I can make one, as I >>>> have >>>> done so as a theatrical costumer on Shakespeare productions. Do >>>> people >>>> other than those working the faires walk around in those types of >>>> costumes? >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sep 9, 2004, at 12:25 PM, Lynn Downward wrote: >>>> >>>>> I know from experience that if you show up at the California Ren >>>>> faires in >>>>> an incredible outfit as a visitor the court people will want to get >>>>> to >>>>> know >>>>> you. If you say that you're a costumer and wouldn't mind work for >>>>> anyone who >>>>> needs an outfit for next year and spread your business cards >>>>> around, >>>>> you'll >>>>> probably get some work, especially if the group is organized and >>>>> keep >>>>> a list >>>>> of available costumers. We tend to work inside the group (I haven't >>>>> worked >>>>> the faires for a while now, but that's what we did), but there's >>>>> often >>>>> times >>>>> when the known costumers are too busy and you'll get work. Once >>>>> you've >>>>> proven yourself by giving a wonderfully fitted, beautiful dress, >>>>> people will >>>>> remember your name and give you work. >>>>> >>>>> LynnD >>>>> St. George >>>>> Retired, RPF-N >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> From: Sylvia Rognstad >>>>>> Reply-To: Historical Costume >>>>>> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:05:52 -0600 >>>>>> To: Historical Costume >>>>>> Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? >>>>>> >>>>>> Well, it has naturally occurred to me that I should start going to >>>>>> Renn >>>>>> Faires and I keep thinking of doing that every summer when there >>>>>> is >>>>>> one >>>>>> here in the Denver area. But I guess my real questions are: 1) >>>>>> does >>>>>> one just walk around a Renn faire in a good costume and get work? >>>>>> Do >>>>>> people just come up to you and ask you to make them a costume? >>>>>> 2) >>>>>> If >>>>>> not, are there other additional ways of getting involved? 3) >>>>>> What >>>>>> other groups are helpful to look into besides the Renn faire >>>>>> circuit >>>>>> and the SCA? >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sep 9, 2004, at 11:36 AM, Susan Farmer wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> How does one get into this type of sewing business? It sounds a >>>>>>>> lot >>>>>>>> more lucrative than my online business which caters to the goth >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> belly dance markets. When I started my business in about 1997 I >>>>>>>> thought it would eventually take off and I could live off of it >>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>> has never progresses further than bringing me in an order about >>>>>>>> once >>>>>>>> every 2 weeks. I have never been involved in Renn faires or the >>>>>>>> SCA >>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>> anything like that. Any suggestions on where to start? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My guess would be to at least cultivate RenFaire or SCA clientele >>>>>>> if >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> don't want to get involved there. People can't use a service if >>>>>>> they >>>>>>> don't >>>>>>> know that it exists. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jerusha >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> h-costume mailing list >>>>>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>>>>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> h-costume mailing list >>>>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>>>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> h-costume mailing list >>>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> h-costume mailing list >>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> h-costume mailing list >>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 16:29:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89KT6R5032351 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 16:29:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89KSM4d026542 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:28:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89KSDBh036925; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:28:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89KS7Bh036773 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:28:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gia_gavino@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.118 ([204.127.197.118]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <2004090920280201500ogthfe>; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 20:28:02 +0000 Received: from [24.16.244.181] by 204.127.197.118; Thu, 09 Sep 2004 20:27:59 +0000 From: gia_gavino@comcast.net To: Historical Costume , Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] sewing commissions was current and future work? Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 20:27:59 +0000 Message-Id: <090920042027.10200.4140BCCF00025AA8000027D82200750784010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Jul 16 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: Z2lhX2dhdmlub0Bjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hmmm. I'm sorry, I don't know much more than what I've already shared. Maybe others on the H-List can help you....Good luck! -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > I dont have any friends who are into anything that is connected with > wearing costumes. Guess I just need to go to the next renn faire, but > that isnt until next summer. Are there other events to attend during > the off seasons? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 17:08:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89L8Gp1032609 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 17:08:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89L644d000746 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 15:06:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89L4pBh064582; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 15:04:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (chori.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89L3iBh063540 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 15:03:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ldownward@chori.org) X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Sophos http://raeinternet.com/mpp Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP-TLS id 1386336 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Sep 2004 14:03:38 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.0.0.040405 Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 14:03:37 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO For more than twenty years it was fun. Most of my friends were there, the show-and-tell quality of a full Elizabethan court dress is immense, my daughters were born into a very large family. I wanted to teach and never was able to finish the schooling, so a faire is a great place to teach living history - spinning, dyeing, history, politics, hand work. I'm a good actor but a lousy line memorizer, so the improvizational theater style (some have called it guerilla theater) of a faire is just perfect for my abilities. When it stopped being fun, the torture part suddenly made itself known. It was too hot and the clothing too heavy and the commitment too much for me to continue. Each person finds their limit. And, of course, that's true with everything. LynnD > From: Sylvia Rognstad > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:14:30 -0600 > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? > > Sounds like torture. Can one still have fun dressed like that? > > On Sep 9, 2004, at 1:22 PM, Lynn Downward wrote: > >> Joan, Chris, pop in here any time before or whnever I say something >> that >> isn't currently acurate. >> >> (chuckle) LOTS of water, staying in shade as much as possible, good >> fitting >> (read non-chafing) clothing, no running -- with or without scissors, >> and >> most importantly of all, natural fabrics. You know all this already, >> I'm >> sure. A lightweight wool will always be more comfortable than a >> polyblend >> anything. I like silk chemises, but others swear that linen is cooler >> than >> silk. Either one is actually cooler than cotton, I've found. >> >> And like any historic or centemporary outfit, cheap trim or fabric >> will make >> well-made clothing look like trash. Don't skimp. >> >> Please remember I'm talking about Northern California during its >> hottest >> time of the year. The clothing I'm talking about is also the flashiest >> at >> the faire and given the most scrunity. It will weigh upwards of 25 >> pounds. >> >> LynnD >> >>> From: Sylvia Rognstad >>> Reply-To: Historical Costume >>> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:10:45 -0600 >>> To: Historical Costume >>> Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? >>> >>> Since Renn faires are usually in the heat of the summer, how does one >>> stand to spend much time walking around in court (thanks for the >>> proper >>> term) dress? >>> >>> On Sep 9, 2004, at 12:53 PM, Lynn Downward wrote: >>> >>>> Again, I'm only using my own experience so yes, I'm talking about >>>> court >>>> clothing. In the past, when we (in court) have seen visitors in >>>> wonderfully >>>> well done court dresses, we've introduced ourselves and asked about >>>> the >>>> dress - who did it, where the idea came from, how they got "that bit" >>>> to >>>> work so well, etc. If we have fewer actors than usual that day, >>>> visitors >>>> with outstanding clothing have been invited to join our progress >>>> through the >>>> faire to the Queen's show. Please remember I cannot speak for the >>>> past >>>> 5-6 >>>> years. Things may have changed. >>>> >>>> LynnD >>>> >>>>> From: Sylvia Rognstad >>>>> Reply-To: Historical Costume >>>>> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:43:51 -0600 >>>>> To: Historical Costume >>>>> Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? >>>>> >>>>> When you say an incredible outfit, do you mean a nobility type >>>>> garment >>>>> as opposed to the peasant type garb? I know I can make one, as I >>>>> have >>>>> done so as a theatrical costumer on Shakespeare productions. Do >>>>> people >>>>> other than those working the faires walk around in those types of >>>>> costumes? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sep 9, 2004, at 12:25 PM, Lynn Downward wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I know from experience that if you show up at the California Ren >>>>>> faires in >>>>>> an incredible outfit as a visitor the court people will want to get >>>>>> to >>>>>> know >>>>>> you. If you say that you're a costumer and wouldn't mind work for >>>>>> anyone who >>>>>> needs an outfit for next year and spread your business cards >>>>>> around, >>>>>> you'll >>>>>> probably get some work, especially if the group is organized and >>>>>> keep >>>>>> a list >>>>>> of available costumers. We tend to work inside the group (I haven't >>>>>> worked >>>>>> the faires for a while now, but that's what we did), but there's >>>>>> often >>>>>> times >>>>>> when the known costumers are too busy and you'll get work. Once >>>>>> you've >>>>>> proven yourself by giving a wonderfully fitted, beautiful dress, >>>>>> people will >>>>>> remember your name and give you work. >>>>>> >>>>>> LynnD >>>>>> St. George >>>>>> Retired, RPF-N >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> From: Sylvia Rognstad >>>>>>> Reply-To: Historical Costume >>>>>>> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:05:52 -0600 >>>>>>> To: Historical Costume >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Well, it has naturally occurred to me that I should start going to >>>>>>> Renn >>>>>>> Faires and I keep thinking of doing that every summer when there >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> one >>>>>>> here in the Denver area. But I guess my real questions are: 1) >>>>>>> does >>>>>>> one just walk around a Renn faire in a good costume and get work? >>>>>>> Do >>>>>>> people just come up to you and ask you to make them a costume? >>>>>>> 2) >>>>>>> If >>>>>>> not, are there other additional ways of getting involved? 3) >>>>>>> What >>>>>>> other groups are helpful to look into besides the Renn faire >>>>>>> circuit >>>>>>> and the SCA? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sep 9, 2004, at 11:36 AM, Susan Farmer wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> How does one get into this type of sewing business? It sounds a >>>>>>>>> lot >>>>>>>>> more lucrative than my online business which caters to the goth >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> belly dance markets. When I started my business in about 1997 I >>>>>>>>> thought it would eventually take off and I could live off of it >>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>> has never progresses further than bringing me in an order about >>>>>>>>> once >>>>>>>>> every 2 weeks. I have never been involved in Renn faires or the >>>>>>>>> SCA >>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>> anything like that. Any suggestions on where to start? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> My guess would be to at least cultivate RenFaire or SCA clientele >>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> don't want to get involved there. People can't use a service if >>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>> know that it exists. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Jerusha >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> h-costume mailing list >>>>>>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>>>>>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> h-costume mailing list >>>>>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>>>>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> h-costume mailing list >>>>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>>>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> h-costume mailing list >>>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> h-costume mailing list >>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> h-costume mailing list >>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 17:08:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89L8IAI032612 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 17:08:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89L7c4d000949 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 15:07:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89L6ZBh066126; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 15:06:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (chori.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89L3iBj063540 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 15:04:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ldownward@chori.org) X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Sophos http://raeinternet.com/mpp Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP-TLS id 1386343 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Sep 2004 14:04:21 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.0.0.040405 Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 14:04:20 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] sewing commissions was current and future work? From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <090920042027.10200.4140BCCF00025AA8000027D82200750784010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i89L3iBj063540 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It would help if the list knew where you are so they can tell you what's near you. LynnD > From: > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 20:27:59 +0000 > To: Historical Costume , Historical Costume > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] sewing commissions was current and future work? > > Hmmm. I'm sorry, I don't know much more than what I've already shared. Maybe > others on the H-List can help you....Good luck! > -- > Slan go foill > Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri > Emer's Needle Wares > > > -------------- Original message -------------- > >> I dont have any friends who are into anything that is connected with >> wearing costumes. Guess I just need to go to the next renn faire, but >> that isnt until next summer. Are there other events to attend during >> the off seasons? > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 17:29:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89LToYH000610 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 17:29:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89KOi4d026072 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:24:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89KOJBh033748; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:24:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net (mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.48]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89KNvBh033470 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:23:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dychap@earthlink.net) Received: from ip-65-78-212-18.elnk.wvfibernet.net ([65.78.212.18] helo=earthlink.net) by mallard.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1C5VSV-0000Wg-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Sep 2004 13:23:55 -0700 Message-ID: <4140BCA2.6010403@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 16:27:14 -0400 From: Dhannti User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] New McCall's patterns References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: >Every time I try to go to www.McCalls.com, I get a "Website not responding" >prompt. So I got on Netscape to try it and there I get "Request refused from >site". > > > Try this. http://www.mccall.com Lead me right to it. Di _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 17:53:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89Lrs3P000718 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 17:53:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89Lqt4d005606 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 15:52:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89LqgBh001309; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 15:52:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89LqaBh001217 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 15:52:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.20] (p04.3c01.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.20]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i89LpF631155 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 15:51:15 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Message-Id: From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] sewing commissions was current and future work? Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 15:55:41 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i89LqaBh001217 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sure. I'm in beautiful Boulder, Colorado, 28 square miles surrounded by reality. On Sep 9, 2004, at 3:04 PM, Lynn Downward wrote: > It would help if the list knew where you are so they can tell you > what's > near you. > > LynnD > > >> From: >> Reply-To: Historical Costume >> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 20:27:59 +0000 >> To: Historical Costume , Historical Costume >> >> Subject: Re: [h-cost] sewing commissions was current and future work? >> >> Hmmm. I'm sorry, I don't know much more than what I've already >> shared. Maybe >> others on the H-List can help you....Good luck! >> -- >> Slan go foill >> Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri >> Emer's Needle Wares >> >> >> -------------- Original message -------------- >> >>> I dont have any friends who are into anything that is connected with >>> wearing costumes. Guess I just need to go to the next renn faire, but >>> that isnt until next summer. Are there other events to attend during >>> the off seasons? >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 18:11:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89MBYiL000797 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 18:11:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89MAA4d007170 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 16:10:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89MA8Bh013666; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 16:10:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm43.prodigy.net (ylpvm43-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89MA0Bh013580 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 16:10:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-91-108.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.91.108]) by ylpvm43.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89MA5JN004746 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 18:10:05 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040909150636.025327b8@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 15:08:12 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: rag doll prices (was RE: [h-cost] current and future work? In-Reply-To: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A11@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx .ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >* I have orders to fill for two rag-dolls (the first I've made for >paying customers in over 8 years and my prices hadn't been upped in over >ten years then so I have *no* idea what to charge for the things now!!!) >The customers who ordered them don't seem to mind but I don't want to >overcharge them and I don't want the final price to come as a shock >(there's a lot of hand-work on them, I fabric paint then embroider over >the faces, hand sew all the hair on and hand finish the clothes). Check out the Cloth Doll Connection, for prices the various doll artists charge. This will give you a high-end mark. http://www.clothdollconnection.com CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 18:39:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89McxhS000902 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 18:39:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89McM4d010140 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 16:38:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89McLBh034631; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 16:38:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89McGBh034565 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 16:38:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95D392C027 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 17:38:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p455.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.201]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 862FEC497 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 17:38:14 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historic Costume" Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 17:38:27 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i89McGBh034565 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] FW: 8725 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO So I got a reply. Maybe if enough of us inquire they will look chances of a sideless surcoat pattern next year.:) De -----Original Message----- From: Susan Fleck [mailto:SFleck@Simplicity.com] Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 2:41 PM To: 'otsisto@socket.net' Subject: RE: 8725 Hello, Thank you for writing! Unfortunately, we cannot accommodate your request for discontinued pattern 8725, as we have no inventory of this pattern. Please keep checking our catalogs,as new designs are frequently added. At the current time we do not have plans to bring this back out though we will keep it in consideration in future planning. Thank you for taking the time to write to us and for your continued interest in Simplicity Patterns. We are sorry were unable to help you. Sue Fleck, Consumer Relations Manager (Simplicity, New Look) Toll free line 888-588-2700 Fax 269-687-1500 Mailing Address: Simplicity Patterns Consumer Relations 901 Wayne St Niles, MI 49121 Sign up now for your Simplicity E-Mail Newsletter: just click at the top on "Email Signup" at www.Simplicity.com. You'll be the first to see the new designs or learn about Fashion and Home Decor news. > **Thank you for contacting Simplicity. If you reply to this please attach any previous correspondence. > > -----Original Message----- From: otsisto@socket.net [mailto:otsisto@socket.net] Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 1:41 AM To: info@simplicity.com Subject: 8725 I was wondering if there was a way for you to bring back pattern #8725 or a version of it, perhaps with a trainless option and button or lace up the front options. Presently there is only one other pattern source for this style of dress and it is an small independent company that unless you have web access or are lucky enough to find a "merchant" at a medieval faire selling the pattern you can't get it. On a historical costuming list that I am on there has been quite a few individuals asking for this pattern. Thank you, De Givens _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 18:42:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89MgZur000920 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 18:42:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89Mfl4d010449 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 16:41:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89MfiBh037008; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 16:41:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89MfeBh036974 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 16:41:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45AF12C04D for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 17:41:39 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p450.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.196]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 170DCC5B7 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 17:41:38 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historic Costume" Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 17:41:50 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i89MfeBh036974 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] FW: #9633 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Another reply. De -----Original Message----- From: Susan Fleck [mailto:SFleck@Simplicity.com] Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 2:42 PM To: 'otsisto@socket.net' Subject: RE: #9633 Thank you for writing. We have a few remaining copies of this discontinued pattern in size AA only. The cost is $13.95, plus $1.50 U. S. shipping. Copies are available 1st come 1st serve. If you would like to order this the ordering information is below. At this time we do not have plans to bring this back out. Simplicity Pattern Company, Consumer Relations 901 Wayne Street * Niles, MI 49121 Print and complete this form to order a current or discontinued pattern Pattern request #: __________ Size: AA(SML) __________ The pattern you are requesting is available! Price: __________ *Shipping: __________ Total: __________ Please Print: Name:________________________________________________________ Address:______________________________________________________ City:__________________ State:________________ Zip:__________ Phone #: Area code:______ ______ ______ *You may send us a check or money order we also accept Visa or MasterCard Charge card # _______________________________________________ Expiration date _____________________ Mail to: Simplicity Pattern Co. Consumer Relations Dept. 901 Wayne Street Niles, MI 49121 To charge by phone, please call toll free: 888-588-2700 If all lines are busy be prepared to leave information on our voice mail system: Please speak clearly and slowly - spell your name - leave your complete address - spell all words in your address - leave credit card number and expiration date. Please remember to include pattern number and size when ordering. **PLACE A CATALOG ORDER AND RECEIVE THIS PATTERN FREE! SIMPLICITY COMPLETE PATTERN CATALOG ONLY $20.00 FOR ONE ISSUE ! JUST MAIL THIS FORM BACK WITH YOUR CHECK OR MONEY ORDER AND WITHIN 2-3 WEEKS YOU WILL RECEIVE YOUR CATALOG. YOUR PATTERN WILL ARRIVE WITHIN 7-10 WORKING DAYS. ENJOY HAVING YOUR OWN CATALOG AT HOME! CHECK HERE (___) TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS SPECIAL OFFER. *Shipping cost are for U.S. residents only, please contact our office for further shipping information. **Catalog offer available only in the U.S. * Sue Fleck, Consumer Relations Manager (Simplicity, New Look) Toll free line 888-588-2700 Fax 269-687-1500 Mailing Address: Simplicity Patterns Consumer Relations 901 Wayne St Niles, MI 49121 Sign up now for your Simplicity E-Mail Newsletter: just click at the top on "Email Signup" at www.Simplicity.com. You'll be the first to see the new designs or learn about Fashion and Home Decor news. > **Thank you for contacting Simplicity. If you reply to this please attach any previous correspondence. > > -----Original Message----- From: otsisto@socket.net [mailto:otsisto@socket.net] Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 1:44 AM To: info@simplicity.com Subject: #9633 Was wondering if you could bring back this pattern or possibly a revamp of it. Thank you, De Givens _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 18:55:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89MttDu000958 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 18:55:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89MtG4d011773 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 16:55:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89MtBBh046264; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 16:55:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com ([199.170.202.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89Mt7Bh046217 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 16:55:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i89NFgTP029964 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 19:15:42 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: (from sfarmer@localhost) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3/Submit) id i89NFgHO029963 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 19:15:42 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 19:15:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Farmer Message-Id: <200409092315.i89NFgHO029963@sabre.goldsword.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 19th century underwear In-Reply-To: <070201c49694$7477a1e0$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 18:56:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i89MuguZ000964 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 18:56:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89Mu54d011899 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 16:56:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89Mu4Bh046835; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 16:56:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com ([199.170.202.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i89MtnBh046660 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 16:55:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i89NGPTP029973 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 19:16:25 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: (from sfarmer@localhost) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3/Submit) id i89NGPcs029972 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 19:16:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 19:16:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Farmer Message-Id: <200409092316.i89NGPcs029972@sabre.goldsword.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 19th century underwear In-Reply-To: <070201c49694$7477a1e0$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO *sigh* cat on keyboard > > > I can't speak to the getting arrested part; but as late as the 1960's > there > > were girls at my high school (class of 1971) that wore dresses in gym > class > > because they wouldn't wear pants or even shorts. They weren't Mennonite, > > but it was some religious denominational rule. > > My sister went to school with a girl who belonged to the Assembly of God > church and she was not allowed to wear pants or shorts. > > Dianne > > That could be it. Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 21:04:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8A14jCD001625 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:04:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A13x4d022158 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 19:04:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A13sBh019263; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 19:03:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from priv-edtnes57.telusplanet.net (outbound01.telus.net [199.185.220.220]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A13pBh019194 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 19:03:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from edieann@telus.net) Received: from moms ([154.5.142.106]) by priv-edtnes57.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.02 201-2131-111-104-20040324) with SMTP id <20040910010345.DITL12976.priv-edtnes57.telusplanet.net@moms> for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 19:03:45 -0600 Message-ID: <001401c496d3$3af33620$6a8e059a@bc.hsia.telus.net> From: "Edith Reardon" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] FW: 8725 Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 18:12:24 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "otsisto" To: "Historic Costume" Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 3:38 PM Subject: [h-cost] FW: 8725 So I got a reply. Maybe if enough of us inquire they will look chances of a sideless surcoat pattern next year.:) De Sent my letter off. When my daughter moved out she took the last copy of this pattern I had. Brin Kendall _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 21:52:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8A1qTuE002387 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:52:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A1pu4d026315 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 19:51:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A1prBh042626; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 19:51:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web13524.mail.yahoo.com (web13524.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.162]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8A1ppBh042616 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 19:51:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pioneercynthia@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040910015151.97244.qmail@web13524.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.68.40.147] by web13524.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 09 Sep 2004 18:51:51 PDT Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 18:51:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Ms Cynthia Schrage To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200409092213.i89MBoBj014828@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] New Member/Bookshelf X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello all, I'm new to this group, and have been lurking for about a week. It's been very interesting (i.e., pads) and inspiring (the embroidered silk wedding dress). I am "clothing" a group of women for a re-enactment set in America in 1845, and another bunch for another re-enactment set in 1853. My question is: what are the books you all would recommend most? Both books of a general nature and more period specific ones... Thanks for the input. Your Obedient Servant, Cynthia _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Shop for Back-to-School deals on Yahoo! Shopping. http://shopping.yahoo.com/backtoschool _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 22:42:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8A2gVmo002942 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 22:42:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A2fd4d000254 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 20:41:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A2faBh069635; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 20:41:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A2fXBi069594 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 20:41:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i8A2jg5H016773 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 22:45:42 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 22:51:28 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <87A506E53AFF4C4CB2C565044BA209E7AF4AAD@rfc1918.space.should.not.be.used.on.publicips> In-Reply-To: <87A506E53AFF4C4CB2C565044BA209E7AF4AAD@rfc1918.space.should.not.be.used.on.publicips> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Message-Id: <200409092251.28063.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i8A2fXBi069594 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 09 September 2004 5:27 am, Lena Strid wrote: [snip] > - Make a 10th century Hedeby/Křstrup apron dress so I would more blend in > with the Hiberno-Norse group I sometimes play with. (hmmm, need to get > tortoise shell brooches as well...) If you need ideas where to look for tortoise brooches, I have a list of favorite sites you may find useful... -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 22:52:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8A2qLwq003140 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 22:52:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A2p34d000990 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 20:51:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A2p2Bh074644; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 20:51:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A2ouBi074596 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 20:50:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i8A2sukl016999 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 22:55:04 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] PS on underwear Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 23:00:42 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200409092300.42410.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 09 September 2004 12:18 am, Robin Netherton wrote: > On Wed, 8 Sep 2004, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > > There was only one fastener at each end, though it wasn't a clip; it > > was more like a loop with a pointed prong protruding into the middle > > of the loop. Sanitary pads at the time were made with a long tab > > consisting of a long extension of the materal the pad was covered > > with; the idea was to pull that tab through the loop and pierce it > > with the prong inside so that it wouldn't slide the rest of the way > > through. Although the tabs were made of pretty tough stuff, this > > method didn't really work very well. :-( > > My goodness, I hadn't thought about those in years. Neither had I, until this thread. :-) > I had forgotten about > that loop/prong thing. Now I remember taking the tail end of the extension > and wrapping it back around the loop and tying a knot to keep the whole > thing from sliding. Yes, it was a little lumpy, but it stayed put. Usually. Unfortunately, because of the angle of my vagina the part that would get the heaviest flow was about 1-2 inches farther back than the pads were designed to handle, so I would always have to shove the pad backward once I got it hooked up, which the belt system didn't deal with well, and if I did it too much the tabs would start to tear.... > I also remember the ads in girls' magazines (like Seventeen or American > Girl) written like little comic strips: > "Hey, Sue, wearing your slinky new dress to the dance?" > "I can't. It's that time of the month, and every outline will show." > "Haven't you tried these new tampons? Designed just for teens like us! No > bulky applicators!" > [Last panel, of course, Sue is wearing her slinky new dress and singing > the praises of the tampons...] I was deterred by the propaganda of the time that only females who had had intercourse should use tampons. (Perhaps because I didn't read Seventeen when I was in the age group it targets.) :-) Now I guess we'd all better return to costuming topics. :-) -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 23:14:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8A3E2xe003545 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 23:14:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A3DL4d002338 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:13:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A3DIBh086470; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:13:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cmlapp16.siteprotect.com (cmlapp16.siteprotect.com [64.41.126.229]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A3DFBh086394 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:13:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cschmitt@genteelarts.com) Received: from genteelarts (oh-65-41-58-155.dyn.sprint-hsd.net [65.41.58.155]) by cmlapp16.siteprotect.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F33DF314C4; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 22:13:12 -0500 (CDT) From: "Carolann Schmitt" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] PS on underwear Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 23:12:54 -0400 Organization: Genteel Arts Message-ID: <003501c496e4$16564940$0300a8c0@genteelarts> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <200409092300.42410.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i8A3DFBh086394 Cc: mmescher@erols.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO To help return the thread on mid-19th century undergarments and sanitary protection to a costume-related theme: There is a patent illustration in "Victorians Unbuttoned: Registered Designs for Clothing, their Makers and Wearers, 1839-1900" by Sarah Levitt of a 'ladies belt'. The patent is registered by Theresa Lawrence, Ludgate Hill, City, 1849. The belt is made "in red and blue silk with chamois leather pads at the hips and under the toggle towel fastenings to prevent chafing. [The belt is] adjusted by a piece of elastic in the front." A colleague of mine, Virginia Mescher, did a presentation on sanitary protection during the mid-19th century at a conference this summer. She has also authored an article on the topic that will appear in a forthcoming issue of "The Citizens' Companion". I can provide contact information for those who would like more information on this topic and wish to contact Virginia directly. Carolann Schmitt cschmitt@genteelarts.com www.genteelarts.com Ladies & Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference, March 3-6, 2005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 23:20:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8A3KRuA003643 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 23:20:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A3Ji4d002783 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:19:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A3JgBh089774; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:19:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from asmtp-a063f31.pas.sa.earthlink.net (asmtp-a063f31.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.120.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A3JeBh089742 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:19:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from camelothorse@earthlink.net) Message-Id: <200409100319.i8A3JeBh089742@net.indra.com> Received: from dialup-4.230.81.215.dial1.houston1.level3.net ([4.230.81.215] helo=camelot01) by asmtp-a063f31.pas.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1C5bwp-0004Uk-TD for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Sep 2004 20:19:40 -0700 From: "Diane Maynard" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] current and future work? Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 22:20:10 -0500 Organization: Camelot Horse Center MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AcSWqUVUkTUOjvB0SQ+zHrbbDmR02AAOBigA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-ELNK-Trace: 7d3e56efc2551607917237dadff7bf594d2b10475b57112027da6191219d7a7e28cd3d6e998fe99b62ffe20caddccbfe350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.230.81.215 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I normally lurk but, would like to respond to this thread. I live in TEXAS-"Hot" by anyone's standards. My persona is High Court Elizabethan and I go to the Renaissance Festival here in FULL COURT GOWN. I make sure that I drink PLENTY of water throughout the day and I carry (and use) my fan. (Why do you think they carried fans?) I am not part of the Festival---Just a patron but, I quite often find myself being stopped about every 10 yards from other patrons asking me if they can take my picture. I have often been approached and asked how my cartridge pleating or some other technique was done on my outfit and I carry cards with me to give out if someone wants an outfit custom made. Most of the merchants and actors at our Faire recognize me and I now sew numerous outfits for them. I have a great deal of fun---Actually, I believe that it is more fun to go to faire in costume and "play the part" with the actors than to just watch as a mundane. This year, I will be wearing my new court gown that is red and gold fleur de leis tapestry; totally hand made and, has 12,000 pearls on it. Believe me---I WILL HAVE FUN !!!!! Diane Sounds like torture. Can one still have fun dressed like that? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 23:54:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8A3sbIe003884 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 23:54:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A3rr4d005338 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:53:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A3rmBh008374; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:53:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A3rkBh008357 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:53:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from heather.jones@earthlink.net) Received: from h-69-3-232-95.snfccasy.dynamic.covad.net ([69.3.232.95] helo=[10.0.1.2]) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1C5cTp-0000RW-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Sep 2004 20:53:45 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <00e301c49651$e2d8e880$cc96d6cb@ewalpole> References: <12c.4b2ae6ab.2e6dd435@aol.com> <00e301c49651$e2d8e880$cc96d6cb@ewalpole> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 19:21:04 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Vanity Fair Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:14 AM +1000 9/9/04, Elizabeth Walpole wrote: >I think the bosom look is probably why they possibly didn't want somebody >who was really skinny (Exhibit A: Gwyneth Paltrow in Emma). However, if you >can ask an actress to put on weight for Bridget Jones' Diary why not for >Vanity Fair. I really don't know if the pregnancy issue is really what the >director actually wanted, especially as it's difficult (bordering on >impossible) to insure an actress after a certain point in her pregnancy, and >because most scenes are not shot in order the costumer would have to try to >keep her looking the same despite her growing belly and probably her bust as >well. If it was me I'd be asking her to put on weight, rather than asking >her husband to try to get her pregnant (I'm not even going to start on >what's wrong with that conversation) it's fairly easy to keep fat at a >steady state if you can regiment how much/what they eat and how much they >exercise. Pregnancy, on the other hand, is a constantly changing state, it's >difficult to impossible to predict how fast or how much the body's shape >will change (especially if this is her first child), and it's a state that >only lasts for 9 months. I wonder if the "pregnancy to get a Regency figure" anecdote hasn't possibly gotten confused along the way. The character herself is pregnant for part of the movie, and I wonder if the anecdote has its roots in matching the actress's pregnancy to the character's pregnancy. (Sure, you can use pregnancy pillows, but it's harder to get the body language down right.) I could easily imagine some director saying to an actress, "You have to play pregnant in 10% of the movie, so if you were thinking of starting a kid anyway, let's coordinate." Heather -- **** Heather Rose Jones heather.jones@earthlink.net **** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 23:57:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8A3vJOL003891 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 23:57:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A3uc4d005490 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:56:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A3ubBh009663; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:56:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A3uXBh009628 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:56:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-164.cvip.net [129.8.205.164]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27CBBB16B for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 20:56:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040909204017.025af2d0@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 20:47:46 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 02:14 PM 9/9/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Sounds like torture. Can one still have fun dressed like that? Actually, yes. For all the stuff I write about the heat, lack of money, and politics, it actually is a lot of fun entertaining and educating the public. Also nice to walk around dressed like nobility, when most people are used to jeans and tees. Faire isn't for everyone. Being in court isn't for everyone. But you don't have to be in court to make costumes for people. If you are interested in making costumes for a faire, check out your local events. _Renaissance_ magazine lists most of the ones in the country, and there are lists online, although I don't know where exactly anymore. If there is a specialty store in your area that caters to the faire people or alternative religions, they may know who you can contact to get involved. Or ask around the computer and science people you know... so many of the faire people I know are computer/science geeks, and well paid ones at that. And as my husband will admit, he knows computers, he has no clue on costumes and would pay for good ones, but thankfully he has me to make them for him. hth, Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 23:57:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8A3vOuo003894 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 23:57:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A3uo4d005533 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:56:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A3uoBh009771; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:56:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A3uVBh009594 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:56:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-164.cvip.net [129.8.205.164]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B1D7B022 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 20:56:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040909193027.02588c90@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 19:47:54 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? In-Reply-To: <000701c49516$7e5008d0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:08 PM 9/7/2004 +0200, you wrote: >Hi, just curious about what your projekts will be for the next months. Sorry this is late, catching up on older e-mails. I have been working on my husband's Tudor doublet with attached base (skirt). I have the doublet body done and waiting for the trim and base. The full circle base will be sewn to the doublet in an organ pleat, as it seems most of Henry's images are done in that manner (and his fool's as well). I haven't done organ pleats before, but a friend showed me how and I have her notes. While the base is hanging to stretch the bias, I am now working with polymer clay to make the jewelry pieces for my husband's hat (which has sat finished except for the jewels and feathers all summer.) Then after that hat is done: * New linen chemise and overgown with sleeves for my 2 year old son. The chemise will be done before the due date, the over gown probably afterwards. * Finish husband's sleeve lacing holes (all by hand) and matching lacing strip for the doublet. * New linen chemise for me * New farthingale, following Alcega's pattern (as explained on Drea Leeds' site) and using heavy hoop steel I recently got from Farthingales at Costume College. * New over sleeves with matching underskirt for my blue Tudors. * Tudor Gable headdress with polymer jewels, hopefully by due date (but low on priority as I already have a usable French hood.) And then after the due date, which is Oct 1 for Hanford Faire, I have planned the following for the winter. * Tudor great coat for my husband, for Kearney Faire in November and 12th Night events. It is otherwise way too hot for normal faire season, especially if trimmed with faux fur which I have somewhere. * New corset with some steel in front. * A few ruffs, which I hope to sell a few of them next spring. * Completely new Elizabethan gown for myself, with bumroll, sleeves, underskirt, French hood, tall hat, partlet, and jewelry. * And after all that, make Victorian outfits for myself, my husband and my son, and probably for a friend as well. We have a Victorian event in May. I may make the friend the Colonel Custer outfit I have wanted to do for him for some time. He's descended from the brother, and looks a lot like Custer in photos, or did, when his hair was long and he had a goatee. * And if I have time, there is that Italian dress that is begging me to make it. I may do that instead of the full court dress, but as I do court, I should do the court dress. So, this dress will have to wait for more time. And after writing all that down... whew, it's going to be a busy winter. But with this written down, I now know what I have to get cracking on!! At least the hat jewels are almost finished, and the tights are on order. Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 23:57:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8A3vTlR003897 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 23:57:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A3uk4d005514 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:56:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A3ujBh009737; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:56:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A3uWBh009612 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:56:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-164.cvip.net [129.8.205.164]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26414B093 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 20:56:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040909203138.025b6e28@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 20:36:16 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 02:03 PM 9/9/2004 -0700, you wrote: >When it stopped being fun, the torture part suddenly made itself >known. It was too hot and the clothing too heavy and the commitment too much >for me to continue. Each person finds their limit. And, of course, that's >true with everything. > >LynnD I hear that LynnD. I left faire for about five years and only recently returned... to join court of all groups. I used to do Scots before, and the dress, while linen & wool, was a lot cooler. You have to decide your priorities when you join faire. I wanted a place to enjoy my costuming work, and a group of people who I can call friends and do something with them that is enjoyable. I chose to do only 4-5 faire weekends, spread from March to November, and try to minimize the political connections. I keep the mantra, "if it isn't fun, don't do it" at the back of my head to remind me that faire is supposed to be fun, and it is. So long as it is fun for me, then I will continue to deal with the issues of setup, tear down, and getting into heavy costumes. When it is no longer fun, I will either fix what I am doing wrong, or leave again. And in all cases, my family comes first. And speaking of which, back to my son and his bath time... Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 23:57:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8A3vWu9003900 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 23:57:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A3us4d005547 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:56:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A3usBh009793; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:56:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A3uVBh009598 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:56:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-164.cvip.net [129.8.205.164]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id E55ACB16A for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 20:56:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040909195834.02490d30@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 20:18:05 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? In-Reply-To: References: <200409091736.i89HaQtY027352@sabre.goldsword.com> <200409091736.i89HaQtY027352@sabre.goldsword.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:05 PM 9/9/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Well, it has naturally occurred to me that I should start going to Renn >Faires and I keep thinking of doing that every summer when there is one >here in the Denver area. But I guess my real questions are: 1) does one >just walk around a Renn faire in a good costume and get work? Do people >just come up to you and ask you to make them a costume? 2) If not, are >there other additional ways of getting involved? 3) What other groups >are helpful to look into besides the Renn faire circuit and the SCA? #1 & #2, Well, it can happen. I walked around last year at a faire, and a woman wanted to hire me to make her daughter's wedding outfit. But I didn't have a business then, and she wanted the full dress in just a couple of months, and I can't work that quick so I had to recommend her to a friend. But that's why I am working hard on making great outfits for me and my family to wear while we walk around faire, because we are walking billboards for my work. I have done faires for many years (since 1987) and yet, my own business hasn't taken off. Then again, I am not trying that hard to recruit business because for me I have limited time right now. My focus is going to be in things I can make relatively quickly, until my son is in preschool/kindergarten. He's my priority. But anyways, the one problem I wanted to mention about faire people... is that at least around here, most are unable to pay for decent wages for costumers. Then again, we are at double digit unemployment, and are a low wage location in general. My friend who had a costume business (mainly rentals) had to shut her business down and find a regular job. She got a lot of work, but she so underpriced herself that she couldn't survive, and was actually making less than minimum wage (not good). Most faire people are college students, at least in my area. College kids don't have enough income to pay for your services. Even the working older adults who I know don't make enough money for me to make things for them (and they want to hire me). I have had a few good commissions at decent wages over the years, but they are few and far between. My area is not really the best financially, as most faire actors and playtrons (those who wear garb but pay the gate fee) are barely making ends meet financially, and can't afford the luxury goods. This even affects my jewelry friends who have had it rough the past two years. I am hoping that I will be established in a few years so when the economy returns, I will be able to make this business work. Your area may be better off financially. You may also check your local SCA group, as my info from friends show that SCA people are more willing to pay for accurate historical garments. Faire people tend to not care as much, unless they have to follow established guidelines at the faires they participate in. Our Central California faire people don't have to follow major guidelines, so most of the kids get stuff from thrift stores and put together what they can, cheaply. And one other group of under developed costumers are LARPers, Live Action Role Players. I used to be involved in the Camarilla, an International fan club of White Wolf. Some of the people were willing to invest money into good costumes, historical and otherwise for their characters, especially for a major gathering like Conclave. Ask around at local gaming stores and college campuses to see if there is a LARP group in your area, then let them know you take commissions. Not all of them are goths (I am not), but many costumes tend to be gothic in style. YMMV, but I hope that helped. Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 23:57:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8A3vXI2003906 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 23:57:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A3ux4d005562 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:56:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A3uwBh009839; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:56:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A3uVBh009589 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:56:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-164.cvip.net [129.8.205.164]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40570B1C5; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 20:56:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040909192304.00b15130@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 19:29:09 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com, isleofmannca@yahoogroups.com, gbacg_connections@yahoogroups.com From: Kimiko Small Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Fwd: King Vintage Clothing Museum Grand Reopening X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Forwarded by request to those interested in vintage clothing. ~ Kimiko Small >From: "jakenjo" >Subject: King Vintage Clothing Museum Grand Reopening >Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 19:00:17 -0700 > > >The King Vintage Museum has moved into new quarters and is having a Grand >Reopening on Thursday, September 16th at 5:30 pm. The King Vintage >Museum is a Vintage Clothing and Lifestyle Museum that features the >vintage clothing collection of Barbara and Alan King of Ahwahnee, CA. The >collection includes over 10,000 items of clothing and accessories dating >from the 1790s to the 1970s. The current exhibit features wedding gowns >from the 1800s to the present. And since we are in a new, larger building >we also have rooms devoted to children's clothes and toys. men's clothes >and a 1920s room. We are very excited about our new facility. There will >be munchies and a no host bar. And feel free to come in costume! > >The museum is located in the same building as the Children's Museum of the >Sierra (above and behind). The address is 49269 Golden Oak Drive, #208, >Oakhurst, 559-658-6999. > >To get there head north on Highway 41 to Oakhurst. Go through the two >stoplights and turn right at the ARCO onto Golden Oak Lane and go down the >hill keeping to the right. You will then see signs to the museum. > >Regular hours for the museum are Saturday 10:00 am - 2:00 pm and Sunday >1:00 - 4:00 pm. Special Tours are available by calling 559-658-6999. > >I hope to see you there. - Joanne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 23:57:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8A3veTX003909 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 23:57:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A3v64d005584 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:57:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A3v5Bh009903; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:57:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A3uWBh009605 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:56:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-164.cvip.net [129.8.205.164]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 977EAB1D3 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 20:56:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040909202007.02580230@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 20:30:44 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:22 PM 9/9/2004 -0700, you wrote: >> Since Renn faires are usually in the heat of the summer, how does one >> stand to spend much time walking around in court (thanks for the proper >> term) dress? >Please remember I'm talking about Northern California during its hottest >time of the year. The clothing I'm talking about is also the flashiest at >the faire and given the most scrunity. It will weigh upwards of 25 pounds. > >LynnD If I may LynnD, sometimes it will weigh more than 25 pds! Or at least it feels that way. LynnD is well experienced in faire environment and what she says matches my current experience at faires. I do Central California small faires, and we have gotten upwards of 115 degree F. faires (I will never forget Fair Oaks that one year). It is times like that when you dress down as much as possible. Remove the furs, remove the tight sleeves, stay in the shade, and drink lots and lots of water or pedealite/Gatorade (electrolyte drinks). I have seen way too many people collapse from heat stroke over the years, even experienced veterans like myself. Even at the hottest faires, your health is more important than looking your court best. I don't know if this is the case in larger faires, but it is at the small ones. We all know at least one RN if not more, because we need to know who to fetch in case of problems. Something some of the people have taken to are watered gel neck wraps under the ruffs, misters, hidden small electrical fans, even swaying to get a breeze under the hoopskirts to keep cool. And this all reminds me of things I have to mention to my next guild meeting. hth, Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 23:57:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8A3vkuZ003916 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 23:57:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A3vB4d005601 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:57:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A3vBBh009961; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:57:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A3uXBh009626 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:56:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-164.cvip.net [129.8.205.164]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2ECEB120 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 20:56:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040909203637.0257a920@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 20:39:19 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] sewing commissions was current and future work? In-Reply-To: References: <090920041915.3450.4140ABEC000CA77700000D7A2200745672010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> <090920041915.3450.4140ABEC000CA77700000D7A2200745672010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 02:13 PM 9/9/2004 -0600, you wrote: >I dont have any friends who are into anything that is connected with >wearing costumes. Guess I just need to go to the next renn faire, but >that isnt until next summer. Are there other events to attend during the >off seasons? There is 12th Night events for both faire and SCA people. That's in early January. There are Dickens or Victorian events for the Christmas season that may be happening in your area. But usually the off season is a time to recover and enjoy the holidays, before getting out the costume and prop stuff you need to work on for the next faire season. I always take December off from faire. I needed to in order to remain sane. Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 9 23:57:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8A3vrd3003919 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 23:57:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A3vI4d005616 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:57:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A3vHBh010024; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:57:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A3uXBh009629 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:56:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-164.cvip.net [129.8.205.164]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id A385FB226 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 20:56:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040909204853.02530230@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 20:52:15 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] 19th century underwear In-Reply-To: <070201c49694$7477a1e0$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> References: <200409091731.i89HVi29027279@sabre.goldsword.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 01:43 PM 9/9/2004 -0400, you wrote: > > I can't speak to the getting arrested part; but as late as the 1960's >there > > were girls at my high school (class of 1971) that wore dresses in gym >class > > because they wouldn't wear pants or even shorts. They weren't Mennonite, > > but it was some religious denominational rule. > >My sister went to school with a girl who belonged to the Assembly of God >church and she was not allowed to wear pants or shorts. > >Dianne That's interesting. I was baptised Assembly of God, and I never heard of not wearing any shorts or pants. Must be a different area or sub-denomination. However, my local Apostolic Church the ladies could only wear skirts, and wore coulottes (split skirts/pant thingy) for gym. They also couldn't wear jewelry that was decorative, not functional, so the ladies wore really expensive wedding watches instead of wedding rings. fwiw, Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 00:01:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8A41VMM003939 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 00:01:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A1sU4d026460 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 19:54:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A1sTBh043890; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 19:54:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.mc.surewest.net (smtp1.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8A1sRBh043878 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 19:54:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-7401); Thu, 09 Sep 2004 18:51:17 -0700 Received: from unknown (66.205.128.64) by smtp1.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Thu, 09 Sep 2004 18:51:17 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040909183042.00d0b550@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 18:54:20 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Surviving Faire in Court Costume, was Re: [h-cost] current and future work? In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp1 SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=66.205.128.64 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Joan, here. I've been in court for the last 20 years or so. One way to handle the heat is to keep natural fibers next to your skin; my personal preference is linen rather than cotton. Linen does an excellent job of wicking away the inevitable sweat. Keeping your head covered helps, too. Drink lots of water (and NO alcohol until after hours!) and eat light foods; I like to have plenty of fresh fruits and some fresh or pickled vegetables (personally, I heartily dislike pickles, but love black olives), simple meats (roasted rather than fried, for example), and bread. And definitely eat a decent breakfast; it helps give you the energy to get going. And I have found that starting to dress by 9 or 10 a.m. (depending upon when your fair opens) helps me adjust to the heat better than if I tried to dress just before going out for Progress in mid-afternoon. Also, if you can dress out-of-doors (once your shift is on, you're decent), I find it helps (unless, of course, it's a cold day [we actually had a few this summer in Novato]) due to the better air circulation. In fact, I generally put my make-up on outdoors once I have my shift, corset, and farthingale on (I use Derma-Blend in one shade lighter than my natural skin tone; this is the only make-up I have ever used that I do not sweat off). This year I had a new gown using Margo's pattern. The layers were a high-necked, calf-length shift (linen), my corset, farthingale, underskirt with forepart, overskirt and doublet bodice (closed all the way up) in black (cotton) velveteen with lots of gold and silver lace (mostly Europa trims), full, closed sleeves, a caul (white pearled silk with gold lace), and small hat. Add the jewelry and a fan, and the total weight comes to 35 pounds or so. And I had a WONDERFUL time walking, shopping, dancing, singing.... Joan Jurancich aka Mistress Blanche Parry, Chief Gentlewoman of the Bedchamber to Queen Elizabeth Forest Faire (Novato, CA) At 12:22 PM 9/9/2004 -0700, you wrote: >Joan, Chris, pop in here any time before or whnever I say something that >isn't currently acurate. > >(chuckle) LOTS of water, staying in shade as much as possible, good fitting >(read non-chafing) clothing, no running -- with or without scissors, and >most importantly of all, natural fabrics. You know all this already, I'm >sure. A lightweight wool will always be more comfortable than a polyblend >anything. I like silk chemises, but others swear that linen is cooler than >silk. Either one is actually cooler than cotton, I've found. > >And like any historic or centemporary outfit, cheap trim or fabric will make >well-made clothing look like trash. Don't skimp. > >Please remember I'm talking about Northern California during its hottest >time of the year. The clothing I'm talking about is also the flashiest at >the faire and given the most scrunity. It will weigh upwards of 25 pounds. > >LynnD > > > From: Sylvia Rognstad > > Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:10:45 -0600 > > > > Since Renn faires are usually in the heat of the summer, how does one > > stand to spend much time walking around in court (thanks for the proper > > term) dress? > > > > On Sep 9, 2004, at 12:53 PM, Lynn Downward wrote: > > > >> Again, I'm only using my own experience so yes, I'm talking about court > >> clothing. In the past, when we (in court) have seen visitors in > >> wonderfully > >> well done court dresses, we've introduced ourselves and asked about the > >> dress - who did it, where the idea came from, how they got "that bit" > >> to > >> work so well, etc. If we have fewer actors than usual that day, > >> visitors > >> with outstanding clothing have been invited to join our progress > >> through the > >> faire to the Queen's show. Please remember I cannot speak for the past > >> 5-6 > >> years. Things may have changed. > >> > >> LynnD > >> > >>> From: Sylvia Rognstad > >>> Reply-To: Historical Costume > >>> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:43:51 -0600 > >>> To: Historical Costume > >>> Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? > >>> > >>> When you say an incredible outfit, do you mean a nobility type garment > >>> as opposed to the peasant type garb? I know I can make one, as I have > >>> done so as a theatrical costumer on Shakespeare productions. Do > >>> people > >>> other than those working the faires walk around in those types of > >>> costumes? > >>> > >>> > >>> On Sep 9, 2004, at 12:25 PM, Lynn Downward wrote: > >>> > >>>> I know from experience that if you show up at the California Ren > >>>> faires in > >>>> an incredible outfit as a visitor the court people will want to get > >>>> to > >>>> know > >>>> you. If you say that you're a costumer and wouldn't mind work for > >>>> anyone who > >>>> needs an outfit for next year and spread your business cards around, > >>>> you'll > >>>> probably get some work, especially if the group is organized and keep > >>>> a list > >>>> of available costumers. We tend to work inside the group (I haven't > >>>> worked > >>>> the faires for a while now, but that's what we did), but there's > >>>> often > >>>> times > >>>> when the known costumers are too busy and you'll get work. Once > >>>> you've > >>>> proven yourself by giving a wonderfully fitted, beautiful dress, > >>>> people will > >>>> remember your name and give you work. > >>>> > >>>> LynnD > >>>> St. George > >>>> Retired, RPF-N > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> From: Sylvia Rognstad > >>>>> Reply-To: Historical Costume > >>>>> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:05:52 -0600 > >>>>> To: Historical Costume > >>>>> Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? > >>>>> > >>>>> Well, it has naturally occurred to me that I should start going to > >>>>> Renn > >>>>> Faires and I keep thinking of doing that every summer when there is > >>>>> one > >>>>> here in the Denver area. But I guess my real questions are: 1) > >>>>> does > >>>>> one just walk around a Renn faire in a good costume and get work? > >>>>> Do > >>>>> people just come up to you and ask you to make them a costume? 2) > >>>>> If > >>>>> not, are there other additional ways of getting involved? 3) What > >>>>> other groups are helpful to look into besides the Renn faire circuit > >>>>> and the SCA? > >>>>> > >>>>> On Sep 9, 2004, at 11:36 AM, Susan Farmer wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> How does one get into this type of sewing business? It sounds a > >>>>>>> lot > >>>>>>> more lucrative than my online business which caters to the goth > >>>>>>> and > >>>>>>> belly dance markets. When I started my business in about 1997 I > >>>>>>> thought it would eventually take off and I could live off of it > >>>>>>> but > >>>>>>> it > >>>>>>> has never progresses further than bringing me in an order about > >>>>>>> once > >>>>>>> every 2 weeks. I have never been involved in Renn faires or the > >>>>>>> SCA > >>>>>>> or > >>>>>>> anything like that. Any suggestions on where to start? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> My guess would be to at least cultivate RenFaire or SCA clientele > >>>>>> if > >>>>>> you > >>>>>> don't want to get involved there. People can't use a service if > >>>>>> they > >>>>>> don't > >>>>>> know that it exists. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Jerusha > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> h-costume mailing list > >>>>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com > >>>>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> h-costume mailing list > >>>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com > >>>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> h-costume mailing list > >>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com > >>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >>>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> h-costume mailing list > >>> h-costume@mail.indra.com > >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> h-costume mailing list > >> h-costume@mail.indra.com > >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 00:01:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8A41lGe003946 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 00:01:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A4184d005900 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 22:01:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A417Bh012075; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 22:01:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A3vNBi010059 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:57:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i8A41KtW018877 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 00:01:20 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Who asked about diamond-weave wool? Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 00:07:05 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A10@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A10@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200409100007.05942.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 09 September 2004 4:51 am, Teddy wrote: > > Teddy wrote: >[snip] > He gets the fabric specially woven (I think he said for Viking > re-enactors) Figures. If memory serves me, some diamond twill does show up in medieval finds, but the weave is more firmly identified with the Viking period and earlier. -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 01:17:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8A5HO4f004375 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 01:17:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A5Gb4d011233 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 23:16:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A5GRBh048856; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 23:16:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.mc.surewest.net (smtp2.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.51]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8A5GQBh048834 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 23:16:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-19921); Thu, 09 Sep 2004 22:16:23 -0700 Received: from unknown (66.205.128.64) by smtp2.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Thu, 09 Sep 2004 22:16:21 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040909221648.00d0e100@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 22:17:05 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Fwd: Surviving Faire in Court Costume, was Re: [h-cost] current and future work? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp2.mc.surewest.net SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=66.205.128.64 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 18:54:20 -0700 >To: Historical Costume >From: Joan Jurancich >Subject: Surviving Faire in Court Costume, was Re: [h-cost] current and >future work? > >Joan, here. I've been in court for the last 20 years or so. One way to >handle the heat is to keep natural fibers next to your skin; my personal >preference is linen rather than cotton. Linen does an excellent job of >wicking away the inevitable sweat. Keeping your head covered helps, >too. Drink lots of water (and NO alcohol until after hours!) and eat >light foods; I like to have plenty of fresh fruits and some fresh or >pickled vegetables (personally, I heartily dislike pickles, but love black >olives), simple meats (roasted rather than fried, for example), and >bread. And definitely eat a decent breakfast; it helps give you the >energy to get going. And I have found that starting to dress by 9 or 10 >a.m. (depending upon when your fair opens) helps me adjust to the heat >better than if I tried to dress just before going out for Progress in >mid-afternoon. Also, if you can dress out-of-doors (once your shift is >on, you're decent), I find it helps (unless, of course, it's a cold day >[we actually had a few this summer in Novato]) due to the better air >circulation. In fact, I generally put my make-up on outdoors once I have >my shift, corset, and farthingale on (I use Derma-Blend in one shade >lighter than my natural skin tone; this is the only make-up I have ever >used that I do not sweat off). >This year I had a new gown using Margo's pattern. The layers were a >high-necked, calf-length shift (linen), my corset, farthingale, underskirt >with forepart, overskirt and doublet bodice (closed all the way up) in >black (cotton) velveteen with lots of gold and silver lace (mostly Europa >trims), full, closed sleeves, a caul (white pearled silk with gold lace), >and small hat. Add the jewelry and a fan, and the total weight comes to >35 pounds or so. >And I had a WONDERFUL time walking, shopping, dancing, singing.... > >Joan Jurancich >aka Mistress Blanche Parry, Chief Gentlewoman of the Bedchamber to Queen >Elizabeth >Forest Faire (Novato, CA) > >At 12:22 PM 9/9/2004 -0700, you wrote: >>Joan, Chris, pop in here any time before or whnever I say something that >>isn't currently acurate. >> >>(chuckle) LOTS of water, staying in shade as much as possible, good fitting >>(read non-chafing) clothing, no running -- with or without scissors, and >>most importantly of all, natural fabrics. You know all this already, I'm >>sure. A lightweight wool will always be more comfortable than a polyblend >>anything. I like silk chemises, but others swear that linen is cooler than >>silk. Either one is actually cooler than cotton, I've found. >> >>And like any historic or centemporary outfit, cheap trim or fabric will make >>well-made clothing look like trash. Don't skimp. >> >>Please remember I'm talking about Northern California during its hottest >>time of the year. The clothing I'm talking about is also the flashiest at >>the faire and given the most scrunity. It will weigh upwards of 25 pounds. >> >>LynnD >> >> > From: Sylvia Rognstad >> > Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:10:45 -0600 >> > >> > Since Renn faires are usually in the heat of the summer, how does one >> > stand to spend much time walking around in court (thanks for the proper >> > term) dress? >> > >> > On Sep 9, 2004, at 12:53 PM, Lynn Downward wrote: >> > >> >> Again, I'm only using my own experience so yes, I'm talking about court >> >> clothing. In the past, when we (in court) have seen visitors in >> >> wonderfully >> >> well done court dresses, we've introduced ourselves and asked about the >> >> dress - who did it, where the idea came from, how they got "that bit" >> >> to >> >> work so well, etc. If we have fewer actors than usual that day, >> >> visitors >> >> with outstanding clothing have been invited to join our progress >> >> through the >> >> faire to the Queen's show. Please remember I cannot speak for the past >> >> 5-6 >> >> years. Things may have changed. >> >> >> >> LynnD >> >> >> >>> From: Sylvia Rognstad >> >>> Reply-To: Historical Costume >> >>> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:43:51 -0600 >> >>> To: Historical Costume >> >>> Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? >> >>> >> >>> When you say an incredible outfit, do you mean a nobility type garment >> >>> as opposed to the peasant type garb? I know I can make one, as I have >> >>> done so as a theatrical costumer on Shakespeare productions. Do >> >>> people >> >>> other than those working the faires walk around in those types of >> >>> costumes? >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On Sep 9, 2004, at 12:25 PM, Lynn Downward wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> I know from experience that if you show up at the California Ren >> >>>> faires in >> >>>> an incredible outfit as a visitor the court people will want to get >> >>>> to >> >>>> know >> >>>> you. If you say that you're a costumer and wouldn't mind work for >> >>>> anyone who >> >>>> needs an outfit for next year and spread your business cards around, >> >>>> you'll >> >>>> probably get some work, especially if the group is organized and keep >> >>>> a list >> >>>> of available costumers. We tend to work inside the group (I haven't >> >>>> worked >> >>>> the faires for a while now, but that's what we did), but there's >> >>>> often >> >>>> times >> >>>> when the known costumers are too busy and you'll get work. Once >> >>>> you've >> >>>> proven yourself by giving a wonderfully fitted, beautiful dress, >> >>>> people will >> >>>> remember your name and give you work. >> >>>> >> >>>> LynnD >> >>>> St. George >> >>>> Retired, RPF-N >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>> From: Sylvia Rognstad >> >>>>> Reply-To: Historical Costume >> >>>>> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:05:52 -0600 >> >>>>> To: Historical Costume >> >>>>> Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Well, it has naturally occurred to me that I should start going to >> >>>>> Renn >> >>>>> Faires and I keep thinking of doing that every summer when there is >> >>>>> one >> >>>>> here in the Denver area. But I guess my real questions are: 1) >> >>>>> does >> >>>>> one just walk around a Renn faire in a good costume and get work? >> >>>>> Do >> >>>>> people just come up to you and ask you to make them a costume? 2) >> >>>>> If >> >>>>> not, are there other additional ways of getting involved? 3) What >> >>>>> other groups are helpful to look into besides the Renn faire circuit >> >>>>> and the SCA? >> >>>>> >> >>>>> On Sep 9, 2004, at 11:36 AM, Susan Farmer wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> How does one get into this type of sewing business? It sounds a >> >>>>>>> lot >> >>>>>>> more lucrative than my online business which caters to the goth >> >>>>>>> and >> >>>>>>> belly dance markets. When I started my business in about 1997 I >> >>>>>>> thought it would eventually take off and I could live off of it >> >>>>>>> but >> >>>>>>> it >> >>>>>>> has never progresses further than bringing me in an order about >> >>>>>>> once >> >>>>>>> every 2 weeks. I have never been involved in Renn faires or the >> >>>>>>> SCA >> >>>>>>> or >> >>>>>>> anything like that. Any suggestions on where to start? >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> My guess would be to at least cultivate RenFaire or SCA clientele >> >>>>>> if >> >>>>>> you >> >>>>>> don't want to get involved there. People can't use a service if >> >>>>>> they >> >>>>>> don't >> >>>>>> know that it exists. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Jerusha >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>> h-costume mailing list >> >>>>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> >>>>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >>>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> h-costume mailing list >> >>>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> >>>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> h-costume mailing list >> >>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> >>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> h-costume mailing list >> >>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> h-costume mailing list >> >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > h-costume mailing list >> > h-costume@mail.indra.com >> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 01:23:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8A5NkLF004399 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 01:23:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A5Mw4d011585 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 23:22:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A5MvBh051989; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 23:22:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A5MtBh051970 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 23:22:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.181] (p21.3c04.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.181]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i8A5LY624237 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 23:21:35 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20040909221648.00d0e100@pop.surewest.net> References: <4.2.2.20040909221648.00d0e100@pop.surewest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <00A01647-02EA-11D9-996B-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: Surviving Faire in Court Costume, was Re: [h-cost] current and future work? Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 23:26:44 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wow! None of you guys have inspired me at all to want to go to a Renn Faire now in court dress. Guess I'll try to think of some other way to make some money. Sylrog On Sep 9, 2004, at 11:17 PM, Joan Jurancich wrote: > >> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 18:54:20 -0700 >> To: Historical Costume >> From: Joan Jurancich >> Subject: Surviving Faire in Court Costume, was Re: [h-cost] current >> and future work? >> >> Joan, here. I've been in court for the last 20 years or so. One way >> to handle the heat is to keep natural fibers next to your skin; my >> personal preference is linen rather than cotton. Linen does an >> excellent job of wicking away the inevitable sweat. Keeping your >> head covered helps, too. Drink lots of water (and NO alcohol until >> after hours!) and eat light foods; I like to have plenty of fresh >> fruits and some fresh or pickled vegetables (personally, I heartily >> dislike pickles, but love black olives), simple meats (roasted rather >> than fried, for example), and bread. And definitely eat a decent >> breakfast; it helps give you the energy to get going. And I have >> found that starting to dress by 9 or 10 a.m. (depending upon when >> your fair opens) helps me adjust to the heat better than if I tried >> to dress just before going out for Progress in mid-afternoon. Also, >> if you can dress out-of-doors (once your shift is on, you're decent), >> I find it helps (unless, of course, it's a cold day [we actually had >> a few this summer in Novato]) due to the better air circulation. In >> fact, I generally put my make-up on outdoors once I have my shift, >> corset, and farthingale on (I use Derma-Blend in one shade lighter >> than my natural skin tone; this is the only make-up I have ever used >> that I do not sweat off). >> This year I had a new gown using Margo's pattern. The layers were a >> high-necked, calf-length shift (linen), my corset, farthingale, >> underskirt with forepart, overskirt and doublet bodice (closed all >> the way up) in black (cotton) velveteen with lots of gold and silver >> lace (mostly Europa trims), full, closed sleeves, a caul (white >> pearled silk with gold lace), and small hat. Add the jewelry and a >> fan, and the total weight comes to 35 pounds or so. >> And I had a WONDERFUL time walking, shopping, dancing, singing.... >> >> Joan Jurancich >> aka Mistress Blanche Parry, Chief Gentlewoman of the Bedchamber to >> Queen Elizabeth >> Forest Faire (Novato, CA) >> >> At 12:22 PM 9/9/2004 -0700, you wrote: >>> Joan, Chris, pop in here any time before or whnever I say something >>> that >>> isn't currently acurate. >>> >>> (chuckle) LOTS of water, staying in shade as much as possible, good >>> fitting >>> (read non-chafing) clothing, no running -- with or without scissors, >>> and >>> most importantly of all, natural fabrics. You know all this already, >>> I'm >>> sure. A lightweight wool will always be more comfortable than a >>> polyblend >>> anything. I like silk chemises, but others swear that linen is >>> cooler than >>> silk. Either one is actually cooler than cotton, I've found. >>> >>> And like any historic or centemporary outfit, cheap trim or fabric >>> will make >>> well-made clothing look like trash. Don't skimp. >>> >>> Please remember I'm talking about Northern California during its >>> hottest >>> time of the year. The clothing I'm talking about is also the >>> flashiest at >>> the faire and given the most scrunity. It will weigh upwards of 25 >>> pounds. >>> >>> LynnD >>> >>> > From: Sylvia Rognstad >>> > Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:10:45 -0600 >>> > >>> > Since Renn faires are usually in the heat of the summer, how does >>> one >>> > stand to spend much time walking around in court (thanks for the >>> proper >>> > term) dress? >>> > >>> > On Sep 9, 2004, at 12:53 PM, Lynn Downward wrote: >>> > >>> >> Again, I'm only using my own experience so yes, I'm talking about >>> court >>> >> clothing. In the past, when we (in court) have seen visitors in >>> >> wonderfully >>> >> well done court dresses, we've introduced ourselves and asked >>> about the >>> >> dress - who did it, where the idea came from, how they got "that >>> bit" >>> >> to >>> >> work so well, etc. If we have fewer actors than usual that day, >>> >> visitors >>> >> with outstanding clothing have been invited to join our progress >>> >> through the >>> >> faire to the Queen's show. Please remember I cannot speak for the >>> past >>> >> 5-6 >>> >> years. Things may have changed. >>> >> >>> >> LynnD >>> >> >>> >>> From: Sylvia Rognstad >>> >>> Reply-To: Historical Costume >>> >>> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:43:51 -0600 >>> >>> To: Historical Costume >>> >>> Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? >>> >>> >>> >>> When you say an incredible outfit, do you mean a nobility type >>> garment >>> >>> as opposed to the peasant type garb? I know I can make one, as >>> I have >>> >>> done so as a theatrical costumer on Shakespeare productions. Do >>> >>> people >>> >>> other than those working the faires walk around in those types of >>> >>> costumes? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sep 9, 2004, at 12:25 PM, Lynn Downward wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> I know from experience that if you show up at the California Ren >>> >>>> faires in >>> >>>> an incredible outfit as a visitor the court people will want to >>> get >>> >>>> to >>> >>>> know >>> >>>> you. If you say that you're a costumer and wouldn't mind work >>> for >>> >>>> anyone who >>> >>>> needs an outfit for next year and spread your business cards >>> around, >>> >>>> you'll >>> >>>> probably get some work, especially if the group is organized >>> and keep >>> >>>> a list >>> >>>> of available costumers. We tend to work inside the group (I >>> haven't >>> >>>> worked >>> >>>> the faires for a while now, but that's what we did), but there's >>> >>>> often >>> >>>> times >>> >>>> when the known costumers are too busy and you'll get work. Once >>> >>>> you've >>> >>>> proven yourself by giving a wonderfully fitted, beautiful dress, >>> >>>> people will >>> >>>> remember your name and give you work. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> LynnD >>> >>>> St. George >>> >>>> Retired, RPF-N >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>>> From: Sylvia Rognstad >>> >>>>> Reply-To: Historical Costume >>> >>>>> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:05:52 -0600 >>> >>>>> To: Historical Costume >>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> Well, it has naturally occurred to me that I should start >>> going to >>> >>>>> Renn >>> >>>>> Faires and I keep thinking of doing that every summer when >>> there is >>> >>>>> one >>> >>>>> here in the Denver area. But I guess my real questions are: 1) >>> >>>>> does >>> >>>>> one just walk around a Renn faire in a good costume and get >>> work? >>> >>>>> Do >>> >>>>> people just come up to you and ask you to make them a costume? >>> 2) >>> >>>>> If >>> >>>>> not, are there other additional ways of getting involved? 3) >>> What >>> >>>>> other groups are helpful to look into besides the Renn faire >>> circuit >>> >>>>> and the SCA? >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> On Sep 9, 2004, at 11:36 AM, Susan Farmer wrote: >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> How does one get into this type of sewing business? It >>> sounds a >>> >>>>>>> lot >>> >>>>>>> more lucrative than my online business which caters to the >>> goth >>> >>>>>>> and >>> >>>>>>> belly dance markets. When I started my business in about >>> 1997 I >>> >>>>>>> thought it would eventually take off and I could live off of >>> it >>> >>>>>>> but >>> >>>>>>> it >>> >>>>>>> has never progresses further than bringing me in an order >>> about >>> >>>>>>> once >>> >>>>>>> every 2 weeks. I have never been involved in Renn faires or >>> the >>> >>>>>>> SCA >>> >>>>>>> or >>> >>>>>>> anything like that. Any suggestions on where to start? >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> My guess would be to at least cultivate RenFaire or SCA >>> clientele >>> >>>>>> if >>> >>>>>> you >>> >>>>>> don't want to get involved there. People can't use a service >>> if >>> >>>>>> they >>> >>>>>> don't >>> >>>>>> know that it exists. >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> Jerusha >>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>>>> h-costume mailing list >>> >>>>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>> >>>>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>>> h-costume mailing list >>> >>>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>> >>>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>> h-costume mailing list >>> >>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>> >>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> h-costume mailing list >>> >>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>> >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> h-costume mailing list >>> >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>> >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >> >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > h-costume mailing list >>> > h-costume@mail.indra.com >>> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> h-costume mailing list >>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 01:24:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8A5OfSi004403 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 01:24:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A5O54d011651 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 23:24:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A5O4Bh052562; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 23:24:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A5NxBh052494 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 23:23:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-164.cvip.net [129.8.205.164]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id F061B1695F for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 22:23:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040909222317.02488628@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 22:23:53 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: RE: [h-cost] current and future work? In-Reply-To: <200409100319.i8A3JeBh089742@net.indra.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:20 PM 9/9/2004 -0500, you wrote: >This year, >I will be wearing my new court gown that is red and gold fleur de leis >tapestry; totally hand made and, has 12,000 pearls on it. Believe me---I >WILL HAVE FUN !!!!! > >Diane Oooh, sounds lovely. Please share pics when you can. And I hope you have lots of fun! Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 01:28:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8A5SEBX004433 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 01:28:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A5RW4d011846 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Sep 2004 23:27:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A5RVBh054229; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 23:27:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A5RSBh054207 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 23:27:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-164.cvip.net [129.8.205.164]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BA3F2F69 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2004 22:27:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040909222624.02488628@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 22:27:24 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: Women/girls and pants (WAS: Re: [h-cost] 19th century underwear) In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20040909142457.067f7a90@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 02:38 PM 9/9/2004 -0400, you wrote: >OTOH, to this day I don't think I have EVER seen a Chassidic women (of any >of several Chassidic sects) wearing pants... > >Hmm... a thought... considering that a lot of modern Chassidic dress >(especially for the men) is considered to have been taken (and not much >modified) from the styles that were current to the areas of Eastern Europe >from which those sects arose, how closely related is Chassidic dress to >historical dress/costume? (Has anyone really done a comparison of current >and when-founded styles of the various Chassidic sects?) > > > >Brenda >webwarren@earthlink.net Hi Brenda, Please excuse my ignorance, but what is "Chassidic"? Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 02:25:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8A6Pflb013414 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 02:25:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A6Of4d014964 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 00:24:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A6ObBh080113; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 00:24:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A6OYBh080036 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 00:24:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lauren.walker@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (h0006255ec5ea.ne.client2.attbi.com[66.31.43.36]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <2004091006242801600hiue7e>; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 06:24:28 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 02:23:23 -0400 From: Lauren Walker To: h-costume Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Slightly OT -- sewing polartec X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My list of winter projects includes things I was expecting to do LAST winter, plus all the fabric I've bought since then. BUT for my next trick, I need to copy a Polartec poncho I have (it was an LL Bean's Traveler catalog item about three years ago and I LOVE it -- I wear it around the 55-degree-Fahrenheit house all winter) in safety orange for a friend of mine who lives where there be deer hunters. I don't have a lot of experience machine sewing -- my two machines are a 1960 Necchi with one stitch, but a motor like an ox, and a 1980 Kenmore, which does have some interesting looking stitches that I've never used. Anyway, anyone have any advice for working with polyester fleece? The poncho is a nifty little cut -- the sides are short enough to fall about where sleeves would, and then the front and back are about knee-length. Its very best feature is that it buttons in front, so you don't have to pull it over your head, and can wear it open if you want. Cut in 4 panels, it has enough shape to stay on, sort of opera-cape-like, when worn open. And then there is the hood, quite serviceable, but also slightly interesting, as the back seams of the hood form a T, so I think it must be cut as a long rectangle with a square-ish bite taken out of the middle of one long side, and then the short sides and the roof of the bite joined at the back in a T. It's not a hood-style I'd seen before. I'm planning to either discover a stitch on the Kenmore that will make nice edgings and seam bindings, or use a plain zigzag on the raw edges and hand blanket-stitch the hem and hood edging. Since the fabric has a bit of stretch to it, I'll probably use the stretch stitch or a zigzag for the seams themselves. And then it has my favorite thing -- self-covered buttons! I used to beg my mom to let me make the covered buttons when she sewed us our spring coats, back in the 1960s. But I don't think I've put one together since. So I'm looking forward to that, too. Anyway, as I said, any advice on sewing Polartec will be entertained. Thanks, Lauren _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 02:55:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8A6tkKL024270 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 02:55:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A6tG4d017285 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 00:55:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A6tDBh095374; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 00:55:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out012.verizon.net (out012pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A6t2Bh095260 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 00:55:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jauncourt@verizon.net) Received: from [4.12.168.105] by out012.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040910065501.PAC28066.out012.verizon.net@[4.12.168.105]> for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 01:55:01 -0500 Message-ID: <41414FCB.6010405@verizon.net> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 01:55:07 -0500 From: Maura Folsom User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20040616 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <200409091713.i89HD89X084191@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: <200409091713.i89HD89X084191@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out012.verizon.net from [4.12.168.105] at Fri, 10 Sep 2004 01:55:01 -0500 X-DCC-NIET-Metrics: Metrics: net.indra.com 1168; bulk Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: 19th century undewear .. and icky girl things ;) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've been looking for the online Museum of Menstruation for days, because of this conversation :) http://www.mum.org/suspend.htm is a page showing a Very Odd suspender device from the 19th century. I highly recommend this entire site to the curious. It's an eye-opener. M. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 03:15:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8A7F0Vs031531 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 03:15:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A7EW4d018974 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 01:14:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A7EVBh005393; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 01:14:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A7EOBh005227 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 01:14:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f88.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.136]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 5BF9F262884 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:14:11 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001201c49705$d029d690$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040910015151.97244.qmail@web13524.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Member/Bookshelf Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:14:28 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Cynthia, One book i would recomend would be Nancy Bradfield's book: Costume in Detail. Her drawings of actual garments are very valuable and shows a lot of hidden sewing details. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ms Cynthia Schrage" To: Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 3:51 AM Subject: [h-cost] New Member/Bookshelf > Hello all, > > I'm new to this group, and have been lurking for about > a week. It's been very interesting (i.e., pads) and > inspiring (the embroidered silk wedding dress). > > I am "clothing" a group of women for a re-enactment > set in America in 1845, and another bunch for another > re-enactment set in 1853. > > My question is: what are the books you all would > recommend most? Both books of a general nature and > more period specific ones... > > Thanks for the input. > Your Obedient Servant, > Cynthia > > > > _______________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Shop for Back-to-School deals on Yahoo! Shopping. > http://shopping.yahoo.com/backtoschool > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 04:05:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8A851x2015033 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 04:05:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A8424d025362 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 02:04:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A840Bh027703; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 02:04:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web53108.mail.yahoo.com (web53108.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.211]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8A83wBh027656 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 02:03:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from smnco37@yahoo.co.uk) Message-ID: <20040910080352.65278.qmail@web53108.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [82.112.144.194] by web53108.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:03:52 BST Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:03:52 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?julian=20wilson?= To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20040909183042.00d0b550@pop.surewest.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Surviving Faire & re-enactments in Court Costume, X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This whole subject interests me greatly, on a practical as well as a historical level. I have read somewhere else - and wish I could recall where - that late medieval England went through the descending side of a climate cycle; and was generally a little colder and rather wetter than the current cycle in 2004. At the time I didn't research the subject further - but if that was true, then it seems to me there would have been 2 main factors which laft the people back then comfortable in clothing which in 2004 has us generally hot and sweaty. Firstly, that putative colder climate cycle. And secondly, the fact that the gentry and noblility had servants and peasantry to do the outside work for them, and so were able to keep out of the sum themselves. In the latter connection, the constant necessary cleaning and oiling of armour and weapons is a real chore in 2004, - since, having no Pages or servants to do it for those of us who use them, - we have to do it ourselves after each day's "performance". In this connection, I've just discovered a good spray-on product named "Metal Guard" - developed for the protection of tools. We've just started to use it on weapons and armour, and it seems to work very well; fingermarks are easier to clean off bright steel, and the incidence of rust is way down, as well. Just thought the List might be interested. In Service, Julian, in "olde" Jersey. Joan Jurancich wrote: Joan, here. I've been in court for the last 20 years or so. One way to handle the heat is to keep natural fibers next to your skin; my personal preference is linen rather than cotton. Linen does an excellent job of wicking away the inevitable sweat. Keeping your head covered helps, too. Drink lots of water (and NO alcohol until after hours!) and eat light foods; I like to have plenty of fresh fruits and some fresh or pickled vegetables (personally, I heartily dislike pickles, but love black olives), simple meats (roasted rather than fried, for example), and bread. And definitely eat a decent breakfast; it helps give you the energy to get going. And I have found that starting to dress by 9 or 10 a.m. (depending upon when your fair opens) helps me adjust to the heat better than if I tried to dress just before going out for Progress in mid-afternoon. Also, if you can dress out-of-doors (once your shift is on, you're decent), I find it helps (unless, of course, it's a cold day [we actually had a few this summer in Novato]) due to the better air circulation. In fact, I generally put my make-up on outdoors once I have my shift, corset, and farthingale on (I use Derma-Blend in one shade lighter than my natural skin tone; this is the only make-up I have ever used that I do not sweat off). This year I had a new gown using Margo's pattern. The layers were a high-necked, calf-length shift (linen), my corset, farthingale, underskirt with forepart, overskirt and doublet bodice (closed all the way up) in black (cotton) velveteen with lots of gold and silver lace (mostly Europa trims), full, closed sleeves, a caul (white pearled silk with gold lace), and small hat. Add the jewelry and a fan, and the total weight comes to 35 pounds or so. And I had a WONDERFUL time walking, shopping, dancing, singing.... Joan Jurancich aka Mistress Blanche Parry, Chief Gentlewoman of the Bedchamber to Queen Elizabeth Forest Faire (Novato, CA) At 12:22 PM 9/9/2004 -0700, you wrote: >Joan, Chris, pop in here any time before or whnever I say something that >isn't currently acurate. > >(chuckle) LOTS of water, staying in shade as much as possible, good fitting >(read non-chafing) clothing, no running -- with or without scissors, and >most importantly of all, natural fabrics. You know all this already, I'm >sure. A lightweight wool will always be more comfortable than a polyblend >anything. I like silk chemises, but others swear that linen is cooler than >silk. Either one is actually cooler than cotton, I've found. > >And like any historic or centemporary outfit, cheap trim or fabric will make >well-made clothing look like trash. Don't skimp. > >Please remember I'm talking about Northern California during its hottest >time of the year. The clothing I'm talking about is also the flashiest at >the faire and given the most scrunity. It will weigh upwards of 25 pounds. > >LynnD > > > From: Sylvia Rognstad > > Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:10:45 -0600 > > > > Since Renn faires are usually in the heat of the summer, how does one > > stand to spend much time walking around in court (thanks for the proper > > term) dress? > > > > On Sep 9, 2004, at 12:53 PM, Lynn Downward wrote: > > > >> Again, I'm only using my own experience so yes, I'm talking about court > >> clothing. In the past, when we (in court) have seen visitors in > >> wonderfully > >> well done court dresses, we've introduced ourselves and asked about the > >> dress - who did it, where the idea came from, how they got "that bit" > >> to > >> work so well, etc. If we have fewer actors than usual that day, > >> visitors > >> with outstanding clothing have been invited to join our progress > >> through the > >> faire to the Queen's show. Please remember I cannot speak for the past > >> 5-6 > >> years. Things may have changed. > >> > >> LynnD > >> > >>> From: Sylvia Rognstad > >>> Reply-To: Historical Costume > >>> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:43:51 -0600 > >>> To: Historical Costume > >>> Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? > >>> > >>> When you say an incredible outfit, do you mean a nobility type garment > >>> as opposed to the peasant type garb? I know I can make one, as I have > >>> done so as a theatrical costumer on Shakespeare productions. Do > >>> people > >>> other than those working the faires walk around in those types of > >>> costumes? > >>> > >>> > >>> On Sep 9, 2004, at 12:25 PM, Lynn Downward wrote: > >>> > >>>> I know from experience that if you show up at the California Ren > >>>> faires in > >>>> an incredible outfit as a visitor the court people will want to get > >>>> to > >>>> know > >>>> you. If you say that you're a costumer and wouldn't mind work for > >>>> anyone who > >>>> needs an outfit for next year and spread your business cards around, > >>>> you'll > >>>> probably get some work, especially if the group is organized and keep > >>>> a list > >>>> of available costumers. We tend to work inside the group (I haven't > >>>> worked > >>>> the faires for a while now, but that's what we did), but there's > >>>> often > >>>> times > >>>> when the known costumers are too busy and you'll get work. Once > >>>> you've > >>>> proven yourself by giving a wonderfully fitted, beautiful dress, > >>>> people will > >>>> remember your name and give you work. > >>>> > >>>> LynnD > >>>> St. George > >>>> Retired, RPF-N > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> From: Sylvia Rognstad > >>>>> Reply-To: Historical Costume > >>>>> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:05:52 -0600 > >>>>> To: Historical Costume > >>>>> Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? > >>>>> > >>>>> Well, it has naturally occurred to me that I should start going to > >>>>> Renn > >>>>> Faires and I keep thinking of doing that every summer when there is > >>>>> one > >>>>> here in the Denver area. But I guess my real questions are: 1) > >>>>> does > >>>>> one just walk around a Renn faire in a good costume and get work? > >>>>> Do > >>>>> people just come up to you and ask you to make them a costume? 2) > >>>>> If > >>>>> not, are there other additional ways of getting involved? 3) What > >>>>> other groups are helpful to look into besides the Renn faire circuit > >>>>> and the SCA? > >>>>> > >>>>> On Sep 9, 2004, at 11:36 AM, Susan Farmer wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> How does one get into this type of sewing business? It sounds a > >>>>>>> lot > >>>>>>> more lucrative than my online business which caters to the goth > >>>>>>> and > >>>>>>> belly dance markets. When I started my business in about 1997 I > >>>>>>> thought it would eventually take off and I could live off of it > >>>>>>> but > >>>>>>> it > >>>>>>> has never progresses further than bringing me in an order about > >>>>>>> once > >>>>>>> every 2 weeks. I have never been involved in Renn faires or the > >>>>>>> SCA > >>>>>>> or > >>>>>>> anything like that. Any suggestions on where to start? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> My guess would be to at least cultivate RenFaire or SCA clientele > >>>>>> if > >>>>>> you > >>>>>> don't want to get involved there. People can't use a service if > >>>>>> they > >>>>>> don't > >>>>>> know that it exists. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Jerusha > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> h-costume mailing list > >>>>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com > >>>>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> h-costume mailing list > >>>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com > >>>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> h-costume mailing list > >>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com > >>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >>>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> h-costume mailing list > >>> h-costume@mail.indra.com > >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> h-costume mailing list > >> h-costume@mail.indra.com > >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 05:10:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8A9AN5n004538 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 05:10:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A94W4d003061 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 03:04:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A94LBh055157; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 03:04:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.254.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A94HBh055087 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 03:04:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:04:09 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] PS on underwear To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A16@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] PS on underwear Thread-Index: AcSWkK891sQ/pDxVTV6mEoiMsDe8QAAg/PfA content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.21 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: > > > I opened up a new brand of pad this month and was astounded > > > to find that the wings sealed not with adhesive strips, but > > > with *velcro.* Teddy wrote: > > Well, if they do it on disposable nappies for babies, why not on pads > > for women. Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Different orientation of fastening -- around the hips for babies, onto > underwear for women. I can go into detail if needed, but off list. Dianne wrote: > Lack of pubic hair on babies! (ouch ouch) And Teddy responded; I was referring to the disposable nature of such items and the move from sticky attachments to velcro - not to the mechanics of the actual pads vs nappies.... Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 05:14:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8A9EvUG004572 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 05:14:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A9EM4d004798 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 03:14:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A9EMBh060251; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 03:14:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web53106.mail.yahoo.com (web53106.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.209]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8A9EKBh060206 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 03:14:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from smnco37@yahoo.co.uk) Message-ID: <20040910091415.53369.qmail@web53106.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [82.112.144.194] by web53106.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:14:15 BST Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:14:15 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?julian=20wilson?= To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20040910080352.65278.qmail@web53108.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Apology & correction re - "Surviving Faire ... " &c , X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, bother! Apologies to Listers and Moderators - I forgot to SNIP this last posting down to the bare bones! Oh, and "keep out of the sum" should, of course, have read "keep out of the SUN". Sorry, everyone! [note to self - must try to do better!] In Service, Julian, in "olde" Jersey julian wilson wrote: This whole subject interests me greatly, on a practical as well as a historical level. BIG SNIPPAGE - [remembered this time!] --------------------------------- ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 05:16:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8A9GcZo004582 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 05:16:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A9Fx4d005014 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 03:15:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A9FxBh061017; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 03:15:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.254.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A9FwBh061008 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 03:15:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:15:46 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Court Garb in hot weather (WAS:current and future work?) To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A17@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Court Garb in hot weather (WAS:current and future work?) Thread-Index: AcSWovlTuJDLwIHgQjurxbNE3u3iZQAcwuoQ content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.21 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Since Renn faires are usually in the heat of the summer, how does one > stand to spend much time walking around in court (thanks for > the proper term) dress? A few suggestions Avoid synthetic fibres.,,, thick/heavy natural fibres are often much cooler to wear than thin synthetics which don't let your skin breath. Hooped farthingales keep the fabric of your gown skirt and underskirt etc away from your legs so they can stay cool and shaded under there 9and you can encourage a breeze underneath by swaying the hoops back and forth while keeping your upper body still. Drink enough water to stop yourself dehydrating. Some people slip ice-packs into theuir bodices to help them cool down. Some build in pockets for said icepacks A fine mister-spray filled with cold water can work wonders sprayed on yor face when the ehat gets a bit too much. Hope this helps Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 05:50:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8A9opn3004808 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 05:50:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A9oE4d008010 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 03:50:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A9oCBh077970; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 03:50:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8A9o8Bh077686 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 03:50:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i8A9nYa28258.; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:49:34 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:49:33 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:49:16 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Surviving Faire & re-enactments in Court Costume, Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>> smnco37@yahoo.co.uk 10/09/2004 09:03:52 >>> wrote: >I have read somewhere else - and wish I could recall where - that >late medieval England went through the descending side of a climate >cycle; and was generally a little colder and rather wetter than the >current cycle in 2004. Yes, the "mini Ice Age" has been discussed before on this list. Don't forget also that many posters are referring to regions of the USA where summers are hotter than in modern Britain, let alone the 16th - 17th century Britain the clothing was originally designed for. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 06:28:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8AASWOf004999 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 06:28:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AARS4d009947 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 04:27:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AARPBh096136; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 04:27:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.254.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AARMBh096111 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 04:27:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:27:17 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: RE: [h-cost] rag doll prices (was RE: [h-cost] current and future work?) To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A18@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] rag doll prices (was RE: [h-cost] current and future work?) Thread-Index: AcSWun9ENwgsEnYDQ2Wa16ZFFy+ymQAZfqKA content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.21 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >* I have orders to fill for two rag-dolls (the first I've made for > >paying customers in over 8 years and my prices hadn't been upped in over > >ten years then so I have *no* idea what to charge for the things now!!!) > >The customers who ordered them don't seem to mind but I don't want to > >overcharge them and I don't want the final price to come as a shock > >(there's a lot of hand-work on them, I fabric paint then embroider over > >the faces, hand sew all the hair on and hand finish the clothes). > > Check out the Cloth Doll Connection, for prices the various doll artists > charge. This will give you a high-end mark. http://www.clothdollconnection.com Thanks! By he look of the prices on the dolls that are most similar to mine, my "outdated" prices are still in the right ballpark. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 06:37:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8AAbuEr005039 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 06:37:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AAUS4d010173 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 04:30:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AAURBh097667; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 04:30:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AAULBi097618 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 04:30:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i8AASTTA008697 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 06:28:29 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 06:28:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4141823B.6090901@thibault.org> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 06:30:19 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] PS on underwear References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A16@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A16@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Teddy wrote: >>>Well, if they do it on disposable nappies for babies, why not on pads >>>for women. > I was referring to the disposable nature of such items and the move from > sticky attachments to velcro - not to the mechanics of the actual pads > vs nappies.... Sorry, Teddy. I think I don't understand what you were trying to say, if it wasn't about velcro vs. sticky tape. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Register to vote! Don't let that other guy win! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 06:45:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8AAjJN5005068 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 06:45:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AAgF4d010833 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 04:42:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AAgDBh003561; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 04:42:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp3.suscom.net (smtp3.suscom.net [64.78.119.250]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AAgABi003468 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 04:42:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp3.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8127CDC0C1 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 06:41:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.78.64.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp3.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id D1B61DC0AF for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 06:41:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <044301c49722$c7c53950$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200409091731.i89HVi29027279@sabre.goldsword.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20040909204853.02530230@64.87.54.245> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 19th century underwear Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 06:41:50 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kimiko Small" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 11:52 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 19th century underwear . > > > >My sister went to school with a girl who belonged to the Assembly of God > >church and she was not allowed to wear pants or shorts. > > > >Dianne > > > That's interesting. I was baptised Assembly of God, and I never heard of > not wearing any shorts or pants. Must be a different area or sub-denomination. Possible. Also, as I said, it was my sister's friend, and she was much younger than me so I saw her mostly as an annoyance. I certainly could be wrong. It could have been Church of Christ, but in our small town that's about as exotic a denomination as we had. Dianne who is grateful to be able to wear whatever she wants _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 06:55:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8AAtP8V005097 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 06:55:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AAqP4d011291 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 04:52:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AApwBh008203; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 04:51:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp3.suscom.net (smtp3.suscom.net [64.78.119.250]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AApsBi008150 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 04:51:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp3.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E85DDC0EA for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 06:51:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.78.64.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp3.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 88C4DDC0E7 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 06:51:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <046301c49724$290a1540$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <003501c496e4$16564940$0300a8c0@genteelarts> Subject: Re: [h-cost] PS on underwear Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 06:51:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > To help return the thread on mid-19th century undergarments and sanitary > protection to a costume-related theme: > > There is a patent illustration in "Victorians Unbuttoned: Registered Designs > for Clothing, their Makers and Wearers, 1839-1900" by Sarah Levitt of a > 'ladies belt'. The patent is registered by Theresa Lawrence, Ludgate Hill, > City, 1849. The belt is made "in red and blue silk with chamois leather > pads at the hips and under the toggle towel fastenings to prevent chafing. > [The belt is] adjusted by a piece of elastic in the front." Just out of curiousity, when did elastic start to be used in clothing? Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 07:03:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8AB32iL005138 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 07:03:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AAxe4d011548 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 04:59:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AAxcBh011646; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 04:59:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m16.mx.aol.com (imo-m16.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.206]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AAxZBh011591 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 04:59:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.4.) id 6.1a0.29875893 (4206) for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 06:59:25 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <1a0.29875893.2e72e30d@aol.com> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 06:59:25 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Member/Bookshelf To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5031 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/10/2004 2:21:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, pioneercynthia@yahoo.com writes: I am "clothing" a group of women for a re-enactment set in America in 1845, and another bunch for another re-enactment set in 1853. There are people on the list who specialize in this period, but I will start you off with one book that is still in print, so easy to get. Nancy Bradfield's "Costume in Detail," 2nd edition, can be ordered from Quite Specific Media. They have a website, and here is the URL for this book: http://www.quitespecificmedia.com/search.php?author=63&x=10&y=15 Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 07:48:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8ABm3nx005336 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 07:48:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ABlD4d015200 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 05:47:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ABlABh038063; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 05:47:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ABl7Bh038047 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 05:47:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA01883 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 06:54:02 -0500 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 06:54:01 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] PS on underwear In-Reply-To: <4141823B.6090901@thibault.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 10 Sep 2004, Cynthia Virtue wrote: > > I was referring to the disposable nature of such items and the move from > > sticky attachments to velcro - not to the mechanics of the actual pads > > vs nappies.... > > Sorry, Teddy. > > I think I don't understand what you were trying to say, if it wasn't > about velcro vs. sticky tape. I think Teddy was saying that from a product development point of view, it was logical enough, since these are similar products and both disposable. No doubt that was in the mind of the person who thought of using Velcro instead of adhesive on wings -- e.g. "they loved it on nappies..." Not so logical from the wearer's standpoint, as the difference in *where* the stuff has to attach really is crucial. Velcro is fine if it's being attached directly to a dedicated space that's prepared to handle it -- as with a nappy (diaper), which attaches to itself at the hips. Not so practical with the current design of pads, that has the Velcro attaching to underwear (or, not intentionally, skin) that was never designed to handle it. So the technology doesn't transfer easily from one product to the other, despite their superficial similarity. (BTW, I also think that sanitary protection counts as historical costume and is perfectly on-topic for this list. It's a wearable item, and we're talking about its historical development. This thread has compared current solutions to those of the 14th and 19th centuries.) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 07:57:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8ABvfem005355 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 07:57:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ABuk4d015743 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 05:56:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ABujBh042651; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 05:56:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ABuhBh042564 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 05:56:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.147.77]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i8ABuTOV007346 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 21:56:30 +1000 Message-ID: <007101c4972d$1c2f4940$4d93d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <12c.4b2ae6ab.2e6dd435@aol.com><00e301c49651$e2d8e880$cc96d6cb@ewalpole> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Vanity Fair Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 21:55:45 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I wonder if the "pregnancy to get a Regency figure" anecdote hasn't > possibly gotten confused along the way. The character herself is > pregnant for part of the movie, and I wonder if the anecdote has its > roots in matching the actress's pregnancy to the character's > pregnancy. Heather That makes so much more sense, I suppose it helps if you already know the story, Vanity fair is somewhere on my list of maybe someday reading the book, but not in the near future as I've got too much reading to do for Uni. I will have to make the effort to go watch it when it comes out over here. Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole in OR in Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra, Australia ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 08:27:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8ACRCd4005496 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 08:27:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ACQV4d017300 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 06:26:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ACQQBh058254; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 06:26:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web53108.mail.yahoo.com (web53108.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.211]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8ACQLBh058176 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 06:26:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from smnco37@yahoo.co.uk) Message-ID: <20040910122616.47930.qmail@web53108.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [82.112.144.194] by web53108.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:26:16 BST Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:26:16 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?julian=20wilson?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Surviving Faire & re-enactments in Court Costume, To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Kate - no, that fact hadn't escaped me, since the SCA has Kingdoms over the whole Globe. We may be rather isolated in "olde" Jersey, but not "that" isolated, especially since the coming of the Internet. BTW, may I say how much I enjoy the informative nature of your postings? If you might be interested in seeing our group "at play" - then - [since our own webmaster is still rather behind on updated out own website] - may i suggest you take a look at the excellent website of our Guests at the "Revels" - "House Greydragon"; - go to the <"What's New"> subfile; and then open the subfile labelled "Jersey Revels". Lots of great photos, takne by Master Terafan's Lady. Personally, I don't think we put on a bad show, for an un-sponsored group of only 30 late-medieval enthusiasts. I'm the "evil* Governor Matthew Baker" - wearing 2 different red robes, and the embroidered Flemish "pill-box" hat. NOTE * My "persona" was not actually "evil", the way I read the extant States of Jersey Archives records. No question, he was a committed Lancastrian soldier-bodyguard of 15 years' standing, - sent to govern an island of predominantly Yorkist sympathisers, who were behind in their taxes to Henry VII, and unwilling to organise their own proper defence against the French invasion threat. This latter was - suddenly - only 15 miles away, following King Charles The Affable's "devil's bargain" with the very young Duchess Anne of Brittany [viz - "marry me, and you'll be Queen of France, and continue to rule your Duchy as a semi-independent Polity. Refuse - and I'll invade Brittany anyway, and absorb your Duchy into my Realm!" ]. The "bad Press" seems to have come from various Yorkist-sympathetic Chroniclers, and Victorian moralising Historians such as Tupper. King Henry VII certainly liked Baker well-enough, - for after recalling him from Jersey in 1497, he appointed Messire Baker thrice as his Ambassador - to the Courts of France and of Rome; and finally appointed him to the post of ! "Keeper of Heaven, Purgatory, & Hell" - i.e. -in 2004-terms - "Premises Manager for Westminster Hall", [and all the Royal Palaces]. After which, Messire Matthew Baker vanishes from the Records - so we don't know how long he lived, or if he had "issue". In Service, Julian Wilson, Re-enactor, Historian, and Master Artisan to "The Companie of The Duke's Leopards", in "olde" Jersey. Kate M Bunting wrote: SNIP Yes, the "mini Ice Age" has been discussed before on this list. Don't forget also that many posters are referring to regions of the USA where summers are hotter than in modern Britain, let alone the 16th - 17th century Britain the clothing was originally designed for. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby --------------------------------- ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 08:33:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8ACXltu005511 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 08:33:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ACXA4d017719 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 06:33:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ACX6Bh061946; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 06:33:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ACX3Bh061915 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 06:33:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m159.in-tch.com [216.166.191.159]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i8ACWF808144 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 06:32:16 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <4141A000.8080109@in-tch.com> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 06:37:20 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] PS on underwear References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A16@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A16@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And with that (and I'm NOT picking on Teddy!), can we *please* drop this topic? It's long since lost any connection, however remote, to historical costuming. I'm about ready to offer a bribe to the first person who manages to make this thread go *away!* --sue Teddy wrote: > Robin Netherton wrote: > >>>>I opened up a new brand of pad this month and was astounded >>>>to find that the wings sealed not with adhesive strips, but >>>>with *velcro.* > > > Teddy wrote: > >>>Well, if they do it on disposable nappies for babies, why not on > > pads > >>>for women. > > > Cynthia Virtue wrote: > >>Different orientation of fastening -- around the hips for babies, onto > > >>underwear for women. I can go into detail if needed, but off list. > > > Dianne wrote: > >>Lack of pubic hair on babies! (ouch ouch) > > > And Teddy responded; > > I was referring to the disposable nature of such items and the move from > sticky attachments to velcro - not to the mechanics of the actual pads > vs nappies.... > > Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 08:38:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8ACc82l005520 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 08:38:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ACbX4d017910 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 06:37:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ACbVBh064303; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 06:37:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8ACbTBh064205 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 06:37:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m2.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABAWDH8TAELWCDJ for (sender ); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 05:36:33 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCvUXbWC2jkRan72E1vBfivwTE2AbLbfHRA== Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id J66UKJHJ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 05:36:19 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 07:33:07 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Surviving Faire & re-enactments in Court Costume, Message-ID: <20040910.073308.-109926673.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 10-14,16-35 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-ContentStamp: 14:7:1273206366 X-MAIL-INFO: 5ba45424edfd80a4dded85d121d455544dd119558415dd55398545749174b501b925147480a58034d9a1b0b90dd94414a9b9a544b184bd4410cdd5e999e964a05991e4e9c051c09000708959490075e47d595175d4b154995135c974c994b4413545ed94c499b99989ddf5213545d10484a5cda595e99195e9e520e9e5200419259d1411805980d90981b90d804dad5175fd752d31a42d3194b431948dd1f4356d40c46ddddd402121152149e0f95994b58519113404112525347171a1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've been doing Bristol RenFaire in Wisconsin for the last 15 years and I have been frequently heard to bemoan the fact that someone in the past decided that High Summer in the MidWest was a good time to do full Elizabethans! As far as I know not only didn't the Elizabethans ever deal with temperatures like this, modern Brits don't deal with temps like this either. That being said, we just had a bizarrely perfect summer in terms of temperature, barely broke 80 F all summer. It gave us a much better idea of what real Elizabethans experienced. I have also been out in winter weather wearing Elizabethans and been remarkably comfortable in my basic kit. With the addition of a waist length shoulder cape and some flannel drawers instead of cotton, I'd be good to well below freezing. Karen On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:49:16 +0100 "Kate M Bunting" writes: > Yes, the "mini Ice Age" has been discussed before on this list. > Don't > forget also that many posters are referring to regions of the USA > where > summers are hotter than in modern Britain, let alone the 16th - > 17th > century Britain the clothing was originally designed for. > > > > > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ________________________________________________________________ Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 08:38:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8ACcaF3005524 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 08:38:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ACc24d017952 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 06:38:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ACc1Bh064541; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 06:38:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web53106.mail.yahoo.com (web53106.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.209]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8ACboBh064413 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 06:37:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from smnco37@yahoo.co.uk) Message-ID: <20040910123744.20848.qmail@web53106.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [82.112.144.194] by web53106.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:37:44 BST Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:37:44 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?julian=20wilson?= To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20040910122616.47930.qmail@web53108.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Net-iquette - re "Surviving Faire & re-enactments in Court Costume", X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Listers, sorry about that last posting on this thread - in replying to I should have left Kate Bunting's much shorter posting at the heading, suitably SNIPPED, - and my own much longer reply to follw it. In extenuation, I can only plead a passing "senior moment". In Service, Julian Wilson, Re-enactor, Historian, and Master Artisan to "The Companie of The Duke's Leopards", in "olde" Jersey. julian wilson wrote: Dear Kate - no, that fact hadn't escaped me, since the SCA has Kingdoms over the whole Globe. We may be rather isolated in "olde" Jersey, but not "that" isolated, especially since the coming of the Internet. Much SNIPPAGE --------------------------------- ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 08:52:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8ACqdAn005586 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 08:52:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ACpv4d018790 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 06:51:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ACpsBh072079; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 06:51:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web53105.mail.yahoo.com (web53105.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8ACppBh072010 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 06:51:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from smnco37@yahoo.co.uk) Message-ID: <20040910125146.58221.qmail@web53105.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [82.112.144.194] by web53105.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:51:46 BST Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:51:46 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?julian=20wilson?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Surviving Faire & re-enactments in Court Costume, To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20040910.073308.-109926673.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, our Companie certainly does on a hot Jersey summer's day at Gorey Castle. We usually set-up our display "camp" in the Lower Ward, where the castle walls, and the gravel paths, absorb the heat and reflect it back at us. The worst Met conditions on-site there are when there is little or no cooling sea breeze. On a day like that, a 5-minute, full-speed, full-contact, combat-display demonstration or practice - will leave one's shirt and pourpoint absolutely wringing with perspiration, even without gambeson and armour. In Service, Julian Wilson, Re-enactor, Historian, and Master Artisan to "The Companie of The Duke's Leopards", in "olde" Jersey. PS, how the devil does one " separate the original posting with it's blue-sidebar from one's own reply when wishing to "bottom-post"? seamstrix@juno.com wrote: SNIP As far as I know not only didn't the Elizabethans ever deal with temperatures like this, modern Brits don't deal with temps like this either. SNIP --------------------------------- ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 09:18:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8ADIeCH006053 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:18:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ADHv4d020513 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 07:17:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ADHsBh086367; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 07:17:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.202.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ADHqBh086305 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 07:17:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lauren.walker@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (h0006255ec5ea.ne.client2.attbi.com[66.31.43.36]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <2004091013174601200icp0le>; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:17:46 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:16:40 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Surviving Faire & re-enactments in Court Costume, From: Lauren Walker To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20040910080352.65278.qmail@web53108.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > From: julian wilson > This whole subject interests me greatly, on a practical as well as a > historical level. > I have read somewhere else - and wish I could recall where - that late > medieval England went through the descending side of a climate cycle; and was > generally a little colder and rather wetter than the current cycle in 2004. > > Firstly, that putative colder climate cycle. > And secondly, the fact that the gentry and noblility had servants and > peasantry to do the outside work for them, and so were able to keep out of the > sum themselves. > I am wondering -- not to harp on this, I know it is a sensitive subject and I assure you I carry my own excess avoirdupois, but -- I find the heat bothers me much worse when I am heavy than when I am lighter, and much more when I am out of shape than when I am fit. Despite the servants, et al, and despite some portrayals of weighty individuals, could a general level of lighter weights and more fitness (if you had to get everywhere either on foot or on horseback, you'd be more fit than most present-day Americans -- see the recent study showing that US city-dwellers weigh on average something like 10 pounds less than their controlled-for-other-factors suburban counterparts) have helped with the heat, too? I also note that at least in the biography of Eleanor of Aquitaine I just finished reading, "court" was held at Xmas, not midsummer. So maybe they only got dressed up in winter? Just wondering... Lauren _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 09:19:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8ADJalj006061 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:19:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ADJ24d020672 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 07:19:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ADJ2Bh086990; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 07:19:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.254.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ADItBh086908 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 07:18:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 14:18:47 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] PS on underwear To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A1B@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] PS on underwear Thread-Index: AcSXNViZBVPTcl1TQR6kTaA4M9AjTAAAviyg content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.21 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Sorry, Teddy. > > I think I don't understand what you were trying to say, if it wasn't > about velcro vs. sticky tape. Just that it's not so surprising, in terms of the costs/technology, that a manufacturer would go to the trouble of putting *velcro* on a disposable item when you consider that they do it on other disposable items - like baby's nappies. Not an important comment in any way Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 09:23:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8ADN9Je006080 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:23:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ADMQ4d020991 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 07:22:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ADMNBh089177; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 07:22:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.254.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ADMJBh089125 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 07:22:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 14:22:15 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] PS on underwear To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A1C@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] PS on underwear Thread-Index: AcSXNViZBVPTcl1TQR6kTaA4M9AjTAAA4TDQ content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.21 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Sorry, Teddy. > > > > I think I don't understand what you were trying to say, if it wasn't > > about velcro vs. sticky tape. > > I think Teddy was saying that from a product development > point of view, it was logical enough, since these are similar > products and both disposable. No doubt that was in the mind > of the person who thought of using Velcro instead of adhesive > on wings -- e.g. "they loved it on nappies..." Pretty much - 'though you put it more clearly than I did. > (BTW, I also think that sanitary protection counts as > historical costume and is perfectly on-topic for this list. > It's a wearable item, and we're talking about its historical > development. This thread has compared current solutions to > those of the 14th and 19th centuries.) Absolutely Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 09:33:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8ADXwuG006146 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:33:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ADXM4d021638 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 07:33:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ADXJBh095562; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 07:33:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sm4app00.siteprotect.com (sm4app00.siteprotect.com [64.41.126.205]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ADXHBh095508 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 07:33:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cschmitt@genteelarts.com) Received: from sm4app00.siteprotect.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sm4app00.siteprotect.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13141F85F for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 08:32:55 -0500 (CDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary Mime-Version: 1.0 From: To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Member/Bookshelf X-Mailer: SiteMail 4.02 X-Origin: 65.164.18.144 X-Uidl: 2004091001515197244qmail@web13524mailyahoocom Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 08:32:54 -0500 Message-Id: <20040910133255.13141F85F@sm4app00.siteprotect.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cynthia - Welcome to the list. My focus is 1840-1870 and I have a lengthy list of books on costume, textiles, needlework, etiquette, etc. If you like, I can email you a copy off list (Word file, approximately 30 pages). Carolann Schmitt cschmitt@genteelarts.com www.genteelarts.com Ladies & Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference, March 3-6, 2005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 09:53:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8ADri12006295 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:53:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ADr64d022947 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 07:53:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ADr3Bh007605; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 07:53:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sm4app01.siteprotect.com (sm4app01.siteprotect.com [64.41.126.204]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ADqvBh007571 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 07:52:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cschmitt@genteelarts.com) Received: from sm4app01.siteprotect.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sm4app01.siteprotect.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E1EAF8C9 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 08:52:57 -0500 (CDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary Mime-Version: 1.0 From: To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] PS on underwear X-Mailer: SiteMail 4.02 X-Origin: 65.164.18.144 X-Uidl: 046301c49724$290a1540$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 08:52:56 -0500 Message-Id: <20040910135257.1E1EAF8C9@sm4app01.siteprotect.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Just out of curiousity, when did elastic start to be used in clothing? > >Dianne It was patented as early as 1820. The earliest examples I've found on extant garments are c.late 1840s-early 1850s. Early elastic was usually cotton covered and was not very durable; prone to stretching, drying out, or turning sticky. It's not until the 1870s-1880s that the production process is refined sufficiently for it to be widely used. Carolann Schmitt cschmitt@genteelarts.com www.genteelarts.com Ladies & Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference, March 3-6, 2005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 10:20:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8AEK5ec006680 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:20:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AEJ84d024969 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 08:19:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AEJ5Bh024887; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 08:19:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d21.mx.aol.com (imo-d21.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.207]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AEJ1Bh024786 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 08:19:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Theflamingneedle@aol.com) Received: from Theflamingneedle@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.4.) id 6.13f.c484a6 (4012) for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:18:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Theflamingneedle@aol.com Message-ID: <13f.c484a6.2e7311cc@aol.com> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:18:52 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Court Garb in hot weather (WAS:current and future work?) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5032 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/10/04 4:16:31 AM Central Daylight Time, Teddy@mdx.ac.uk writes: Avoid synthetic fibres.,,, thick/heavy natural fibres are often much cooler to wear than thin synthetics which don't let your skin breath. This is, in my opinion, the number one Golden Rule for costuming in any warm climate. Even a blend that is *mostly* natural but *some* synthetic, will cook you compared to all natural fibers. Avoid modern broadcloths for shirts and chemises; they're 65/35. Go with muslin or all-cotton, or pure silk if you can afford it and want to. Another tip is to build/develop your costume so that there's as little layering on your forearms and neck as possible. Pulse points such as the neck, forearms and backs of the legs can be cooled and thus cool off your whole body; holding a cool compress or ice to the inside of your wrists works miracles at cooling off your bloodstream. While it is definitely important to drink water, it is equally important to EAT. Every year at faire, we have young ladies go down right and left, who protest to our scolding, "but I drank water ALL DAY!" You have to replace more than just your body's water; you also have to replace the minerals and nutrients that are depleted through sweat. Take vitamins (daily, not just on faire mornings), try to intersperse something like gatorade that will replenish electrolytes, and eat proteins and all-natural carbs like fruits (bananas are excellent, they replace your potassium). Breads, sugars and other starchy carbs will not help; they'll make the situation worse. Go for a turkey leg rather than a stuffed baked potato. "Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance." -Will Durant _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 10:52:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8AEqOw9006882 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:52:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AEne4d027764 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 08:49:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AEnVBh046248; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 08:49:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AEnSBh046179 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 08:49:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.165] (p05.3c04.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.165]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i8AElx622868 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 08:47:59 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <22606E84-0339-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Surviving Faire & re-enactments in Court Costume, Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 08:53:10 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO One thing I don't understand about the Renn Faire weather issue is why they aren't held in the winer months, especially in states like California where the weather is pleasant year-around. Or they could be situated indoors like Dickens faires or a combo of indoors-outdoors. Has anyone ever considered one of those options? Sylrog On Sep 10, 2004, at 3:49 AM, Kate M Bunting wrote: >>>> smnco37@yahoo.co.uk 10/09/2004 09:03:52 >>> wrote: >> I have read somewhere else - and wish I could recall where - that >> late medieval England went through the descending side of a climate >> cycle; and was generally a little colder and rather wetter than the >> current cycle in 2004. > > Yes, the "mini Ice Age" has been discussed before on this list. Don't > forget also that many posters are referring to regions of the USA where > summers are hotter than in modern Britain, let alone the 16th - 17th > century Britain the clothing was originally designed for. > > > > > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 11:04:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8AF4iUt007163 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:04:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AF3S4d029115 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:03:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AF3RBh056542; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:03:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp3.suscom.net (smtp3.suscom.net [64.78.119.250]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AF3LBi056363 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:03:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp3.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E0A6DBC21 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:03:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.78.64.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp3.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id D3620DBBF6 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:03:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <067601c49747$46cc68d0$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040910135257.1E1EAF8C9@sm4app01.siteprotect.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] PS on underwear Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:03:05 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 9:52 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] PS on underwear > >Just out of curiousity, when did elastic start to be used in clothing? > > > >Dianne > > It was patented as early as 1820. The earliest examples I've found on extant garments are c.late 1840s-early 1850s. Wow. I never realized it was used that early. I love this list. Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 11:05:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8AF58jo007171 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:05:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AF1J4d028844 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:01:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AF1FBh054891; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:01:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AF18Bh054754 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:01:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Theflamingneedle@aol.com) Received: from Theflamingneedle@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.4.) id 6.67.32fac9f7 (4012) for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:01:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Theflamingneedle@aol.com Message-ID: <67.32fac9f7.2e731bab@aol.com> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:00:59 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Surviving Faire & re-enactments in Court Costume, To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5032 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/10/04 9:50:25 AM Central Daylight Time, sylvia@ntw.net writes: One thing I don't understand about the Renn Faire weather issue is why they aren't held in the winer months, especially in states like California where the weather is pleasant year-around. I think, to a certain extent, it's simply a function of the schedules required by the vendors and performers. Winter months are usually considered at-home or family time, due to the holidays that are involved; most people want to be close to home for Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Year's. The people who travel the ren faire circuit constantly as sellers and entertainers are no exception; yet without them, there would BE no faires. Also, most faires are locked into their time slot by their contracts with their performers. Most performers at larger faires are not "local;" they travel and do this almost year-round, and they can only be at one faire at a time. The schedules were set up long ago, and now there's very little wriggle room, because in order for a faire to change its time slot, it would also have to change the yearly schedules of every vendor and performer it has. "Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance." -Will Durant _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 11:11:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8AFAx0B007248 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:10:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AF4g4d029242 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:04:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AF4gBh057511; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:04:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AF4UBh057277 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:04:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:04:21 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:04:12 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Surviving faire X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've been doing Bristol RenFaire in Wisconsin for the last 15 years and I have been frequently heard to bemoan the fact that someone in the past decided that High Summer in the MidWest was a good time to do full Elizabethans! Karen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Or an Entertainment Director who focuses on his 'picture' without thinking about the practicalities of things like how HOT it can get in Kansas on Labor Day! DH was King for several years at our local faire and the ED dictated that he *had* to have a fur collar on his greatcoat. Now this wasn't to bad in October when the temperature was actually below freezing one morning before cannon but on the first Saturday it was 110 degrees. He finally just took it off part-way through the day and I don't think the ED dared say anything since we had a couple of kids go down with the heat. Lots of good advice has been given here for surviving faire in any sort of costume. I strongly second the natural fabrics (been trying to drum it into our kids for years!) and, with the fabric resources on the web, even linen is very affordable now. Staying hydrated and eating sensibly is another, often overlooked, way to deal with heat. Also, know yourself! I know I don't do heat well and, much as I enjoy creating court costumes, I have absolutely no desire to stand around in one all day so all my characters at faire have been working or middle class. Much more comfortable :). Unfortunately I must also agree that rennies are not always good at paying their costuming bills, or appreciating the value of what they are paying for. Part of this I chalk up to the large number of young performers we have but also, in some ways, I think it is an acting mentality as some (not all) of the performers I have worked with just see a costume as another disposable prop and don't appreciate the work that goes into it, or take proper care of it once it is in their hands. All that being said, I'm starting my 28th year with faire this year! Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 11:21:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8AFLnBh007296 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:21:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AFL64d000956 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:21:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AFKkBh069832; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:20:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m17.mx.aol.com (imo-m17.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.207]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AFKfBh069710 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:20:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Theflamingneedle@aol.com) Received: from Theflamingneedle@aol.com by imo-m17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.4.) id 6.1ef.2a4fba53 (4012) for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:20:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Theflamingneedle@aol.com Message-ID: <1ef.2a4fba53.2e73203d@aol.com> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:20:29 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Surviving faire To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5032 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/10/04 10:05:45 AM Central Daylight Time, ckinsey@kumc.edu writes: Also, know yourself! Another HUGE and very valid point! I forgot about that LOL. The lady who plays Anne Boleyn at Scarborough, is simply an amazing human being with the constitution of an iron tank, who never seems to be affected by the heat (even in her astounding costumes) and looks every bit as cool and beautiful at closing gate as she did at opening. Every day. No matter how hot it is. I hate her. :o) Because I'm with you - no matter how much I love my court costumes, I can only do them for a few weekends before they're abandoned for gypsy or peasant wear. I just can't stand it, no matter how much I eat, drink, rest or stay in the shade, and by eleven in the morning I normally look like a drowned raccoon if I've been so ill-advised as to try to wear makeup. I remember many a day in May where I've simply sat like a bump on a log, trying to move not one single inch in any direction, or I was afraid I might simply melt into a puddle in the midst of my cotton velveteen gown and the only way they'd know what happened to me is if they recognized the dress lying there. "Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance." -Will Durant _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 11:25:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8AFPi91007328 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:25:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AFOn4d001447 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:24:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AFOmBh073261; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:24:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.203]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AFOjBh073215 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:24:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goddessandqueen@gmail.com) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 75so1030546rnk for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 08:24:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.59.69 with SMTP id h69mr4305675rna; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 08:24:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.81.49 with HTTP; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 08:24:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6107d9c104091008247b61e20b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:24:44 -0500 From: pixel To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20040909222317.02488628@64.87.54.245> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <200409100319.i8A3JeBh089742@net.indra.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20040909222317.02488628@64.87.54.245> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What I'm working on: I have a new 13th c. robe that needs to be done in a month--chemise, kirtle, surcoat, shoes, hose, veil & wimple. Thankfully I'm not responsible for the metal bits. Then there's a half-finished Anglo-Saxon pattern tablet-woven strap for a hunting horn, that article on underwear, an article on 13th c. overgarments, a birchbark dye project that needs to be finished before it's too cold to work outside, and more 13th c. clothes. And a class we're teaching in November on how to display your social class with your clothing, etc. And my sewing machine needs to go in for service because the tension is seriously and profoundly f%@#d, but I can't do much hand-sewing because of tendonitis in my thumbs and index fingers--unless someone knows how to sew with only their pinky and ring fingers and is willing to teach me. :-) Margaret/Pixel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 11:49:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8AFnWfi007573 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:49:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AFmn4d004558 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:48:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AFmcBh092854; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:48:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm15.prodigy.net (ylpvm15-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AFmZBh092807 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:48:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-68-123.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.68.123]) by ylpvm15.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AFmm10032032 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:48:48 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040910081756.031aff68@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 08:18:29 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: [h-cost] rag doll prices (was RE: [h-cost] current and future work?) In-Reply-To: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A18@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx .ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >http://www.clothdollconnection.com > >Thanks! By he look of the prices on the dolls that are most similar to >mine, my "outdated" prices are still in the right ballpark. Hope you saw my dolls there when you looked, tho I don't have any prices posted. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 11:50:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8AFohXv007607 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:50:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AFnu4d004721 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:49:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AFnsBh093943; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:49:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm15.prodigy.net (ylpvm15-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AFmhBh092864 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:48:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-68-123.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.68.123]) by ylpvm15.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AFmm12032032 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:48:49 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040910082142.0251e718@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 08:44:05 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: snow (was Re: [h-cost] Surviving Faire & re-enactments in Court Costume, In-Reply-To: <20040910.073308.-109926673.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-MessageCare-Metrics: net.indra.com 1108; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I have also been out in >winter weather wearing Elizabethans and been remarkably comfortable in my >basic kit. With the addition of a waist length shoulder cape and some >flannel drawers instead of cotton, I'd be good to well below freezing. My old court outfit was good in the snow when I took it to Alaska one October. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 11:52:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8AFquYr007669 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:52:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AFpL4d004833 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:51:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AFolBh094725; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:50:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm15.prodigy.net (ylpvm15-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AFmcBh092837 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:48:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-68-123.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.68.123]) by ylpvm15.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AFmm14032032 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:48:50 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040910082511.031a6c50@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 08:44:15 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: rain (was Re: [h-cost] Surviving Faire & re-enactments in Court Costume, In-Reply-To: <22606E84-0339-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >One thing I don't understand about the Renn Faire weather issue is why >they aren't held in the winer months, especially in states like California >where the weather is pleasant year-around. Rain is why. Rain is so uncommon in California that many people act like they're scared of it. They run from a few drops, pop their umbrellas at the first sign of a sprinkle, and generally act like they're going to melt. (I can say that - I was born in rainy Oregon, where we don't tan, we rust!) It's bad enough getting our costumes indoors on a wet morning before Dickens' Fair, but few people would show up at an outdoors event, participants or customers, if they even thought it might rain. In fact, last year someone tried an outdoor Dickens' event in Oakland, in what I would call a light drizzle, and it was almost entirely unattended (except for those of us who were paid to be there, and they let us go home early). CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 11:58:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8AFwtHF007800 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:58:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AFw84d005691 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:58:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AFw4Bh000764; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:58:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from deluge.cc.mcgill.ca (deluge.CC.McGill.CA [132.206.27.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AFw0Bh000672 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:58:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanna.hobbins@mail.mcgill.ca) Received: from mailscan1.cc.mcgill.ca (mailscan1.CC.McGill.CA [132.216.77.248]) by deluge.cc.mcgill.ca (8.12.11/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i8AFvv7N008925 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:57:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wgrappe1.cc.mcgill.ca (wgrappe1.CC.McGill.CA [132.216.47.124]) by mailscan1.cc.mcgill.ca (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AFvjCO019316 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:57:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wgrappe1.cc.mcgill.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wgrappe1.cc.mcgill.ca (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AFvF8L001429 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:57:15 -0400 Received: (from apache@localhost) by wgrappe1.cc.mcgill.ca (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i8AFvFMI001427 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:57:15 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: wgrappe1.cc.mcgill.ca: apache set sender to joanna.hobbins@mail.mcgill.ca using -f Received: from GIS131.Library.McGill.CA (GIS131.Library.McGill.CA [132.216.28.131]) by webmail.mcgill.ca (IMP) with HTTP for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:57:15 -0400 Message-ID: <1094831835.4141cedb91172@webmail.mcgill.ca> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:57:15 -0400 From: Joanna Hobbins To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.5 X-Originating-IP: 132.216.28.131 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Let's see, 1 12th c bliaut 5 tunics 4 surcoats 8 linen coifs - three of them padded 2 vikings pants 3 pairs hose 2 braies that's sewing. I have 4 more tablet woven belts to do, 2 pairs of socks w/ naalbinding, then there is the maille armour: 3 hauberks 2 haubergeons 1 byrnie 1 sabatons 1 camaille 2 coifs 1 bishop's mantle Fortunately fighting season is over next month and won't start up again until may so I have plenty of time to finish them. Other plans include getting a rigid heddle loom and learning to weave on that, plus I plan to get more into leatherwork. Plus I think I want to make some more work garb for myself. But that's probably a wistful dream. cheers, Joanna _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 12:00:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8AG07lD007808 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 12:00:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AFxF4d005831 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:59:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AFxEBh001851; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:59:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from deluge.cc.mcgill.ca (deluge.CC.McGill.CA [132.206.27.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AFw1Bh000714 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:58:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanna.hobbins@mail.mcgill.ca) Received: from mailscan4.cc.mcgill.ca (mailscan4.CC.McGill.CA [132.216.77.251]) by deluge.cc.mcgill.ca (8.12.11/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i8AFvxfJ008919 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:57:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wgrappe1.cc.mcgill.ca (wgrappe1.CC.McGill.CA [132.216.47.124]) by mailscan4.cc.mcgill.ca (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i8AFvh0q012877 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:57:43 -0400 Received: from wgrappe1.cc.mcgill.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by wgrappe1.cc.mcgill.ca (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AFvG8L001434 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:57:16 -0400 Received: (from apache@localhost) by wgrappe1.cc.mcgill.ca (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i8AFvGgp001432 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:57:16 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: wgrappe1.cc.mcgill.ca: apache set sender to joanna.hobbins@mail.mcgill.ca using -f Received: from GIS131.Library.McGill.CA (GIS131.Library.McGill.CA [132.216.28.131]) by webmail.mcgill.ca (IMP) with HTTP for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:57:15 -0400 Message-ID: <1094831835.4141cedbf3630@webmail.mcgill.ca> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:57:15 -0400 From: Joanna Hobbins To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.5 X-Originating-IP: 132.216.28.131 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Let's see, 1 12th c bliaut 5 tunics 4 surcoats 8 linen coifs - three of them padded 2 vikings pants 3 pairs hose 2 braies that's sewing. I have 4 more tablet woven belts to do, 2 pairs of socks w/ naalbinding, then there is the maille armour: 3 hauberks 2 haubergeons 1 byrnie 1 sabatons 1 camaille 2 coifs 1 bishop's mantle Fortunately fighting season is over next month and won't start up again until may so I have plenty of time to finish them. Other plans include getting a rigid heddle loom and learning to weave on that, plus I plan to get more into leatherwork. Plus I think I want to make some more work garb for myself. But that's probably a wistful dream. cheers, Joanna _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 12:04:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8AG4JX6007824 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 12:04:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AG2x4d006263 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:02:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AG2sBh005024; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:02:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web51408.mail.yahoo.com (web51408.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.187]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8AG2pBh004888 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:02:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ivycircle@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040910160243.26676.qmail@web51408.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.240.36.213] by web51408.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:02:43 PDT Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:02:43 -0700 (PDT) From: ~Angelique To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200409101252.i8ACqKBj072279@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Linen/ Dye removal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I found some 100% linen at a decent price. My problem however is the horrible banana yellow color. Can I use rit color remover? Perhaps another removal suggestion? I really want this linen! Happy Friday, ~Angelique --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Shop for Back-to-School deals on Yahoo! Shopping. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 12:14:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8AGE3jM007861 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 12:14:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AGCQ4d007353 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:12:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AGBrBh012516; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:12:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from indirectobject.com (066-241-084-045.bus.ashlandfiber.net [66.241.84.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AGBjBh012413 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:11:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rreed@indirectobject.com) Message-Id: <200409101611.i8AGBjBh012413@net.indra.com> Received: from synergy ([192.168.1.1]) by indirectobject.com (WWW [192.168.1.200]) (MDaemon.PRO.v6.8.5.R) with ESMTP id 33-md50000000035.tmp for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:07:21 -0700 From: To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] PS on underwear Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:11:04 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 In-Reply-To: <4141A000.8080109@in-tch.com> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-Index: AcSXMhnJtjVPP5m+QZqqY8CB7hcwQAAHpNjA X-Spam-Processed: WWW, Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:07:21 -0700 (not processed: message from valid local sender) X-MDRemoteIP: 192.168.1.1 X-Return-Path: rreed@indirectobject.com X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I agree with Sue; some people have offered waaaaayyy too much information on this subject. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Sue Clemenger Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 5:37 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] PS on underwear And with that (and I'm NOT picking on Teddy!), can we *please* drop this topic? It's long since lost any connection, however remote, to historical costuming. I'm about ready to offer a bribe to the first person who manages to make this thread go *away!* --sue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 12:29:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8AGTN9P007969 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 12:29:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AGNZ4d008648 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:23:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AGNABh021659; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:23:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AGN4Bh021548 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:23:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyro@comcast.net) Received: from lightfoot (pcp04615791pcs.gambrl01.md.comcast.net[68.50.121.37]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2004091016225801100229cve>; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:22:58 +0000 Message-ID: <053901c49751$df367610$0200a8c0@lightfoot> From: "Ro" To: References: <200409100320.i8A3KEBi090106@net.indra.com> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 12:18:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] A Pkea X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ladies and Gentlemen: For those of us on digest, could you please try and remember to SNIP your posts? I have now received Sylvia Rognstad's missive to the list 7 TIMES. NOT HER FAULT, just comes from top posting and replying without snippage. Thanks! Ro, who's eyes are in BAD enough shape right now.... http://www.livejournal.com/users/ladyrowansplace/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 12:45:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8AGjhR3008055 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 12:45:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AGis4d011039 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:44:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AGimBh039332; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:44:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AGihBh039271 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:44:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cahuff@mindspring.com) Received: from user-38lci87.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.73.7] helo=[10.0.1.2]) by barry.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1C5oVu-0001iq-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 12:44:43 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200409101553.i8AFqsBj096352@net.indra.com> References: <200409101553.i8AFqsBj096352@net.indra.com> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 12:44:33 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: fastusminimus Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: surviving heat in heavy costume... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 9:53 AM -0600 9/10/04, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: >While it is definitely important to drink water, it is equally important to >EAT. Every year at faire, we have young ladies go down right and left, who >protest to our scolding, "but I drank water ALL DAY!" You have to >replace more >than just your body's water; you also have to replace the minerals and >nutrients that are depleted through sweat. YYup and if you want to really help--build up your potassium reserves several WEEKS before the event by eating things high in potassium such as bananas...They make a product such as Slo K for animals that does the same thing--keeps them going in the heat and prevents cramping. You want to supplement with a food instead of a concentrate because too much potassium is a *bad* thing... Ta Carol, all pumped up and ready to go and now stayin home to hand walk the poor injured whippet :-( -- Creative Clutter is Better Than Idle Neatness! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 12:58:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8AGwUhS008091 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 12:58:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AGvh4d012383 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:57:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AGvdBh049585; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:57:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (chori.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AGvbBh049451 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:57:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ldownward@chori.org) X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Sophos http://raeinternet.com/mpp Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP-TLS id 1389007 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:57:31 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.0.0.040405 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:57:30 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: surviving heat in heavy costume... From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bananas are great for potassium, and Carol's warning about overdoing the potassium is very important. The reality is that any faire that's so hot that you need the potassium will just kill bananas (plus you can't necessarily eat them in front of any audience and keep your credibility). My favorite potassium load for faire is cantalope. I can cut it up at home and keep it in a plastic container in the cooler until needed and it's cold and refreshing and just what's needed by early afternoon. LynnD fastusminimus said: > YYup and if you want to really help--build up your potassium reserves > several WEEKS before the event by eating things high in potassium > such as bananas...They make a product such as Slo K for animals that > does the same thing--keeps them going in the heat and prevents > cramping. You want to supplement with a food instead of a concentrate > because too much potassium is a *bad* thing... > Ta > Carol, all pumped up and ready to go and now stayin home to hand walk > the poor injured whippet :-( > -- > Creative Clutter is Better Than Idle Neatness! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 13:09:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8AH98su008149 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:09:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AH3H4d012915 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:03:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AH3DBh053934; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:03:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AH36Bh053856 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:03:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.43] (p27.3c01.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.43]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i8AH1i602070 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:01:44 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <20040910160243.26676.qmail@web51408.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040910160243.26676.qmail@web51408.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen/ Dye removal Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:06:56 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You could use Rit color remover or plain chlorine bleach. Sylrog On Sep 10, 2004, at 10:02 AM, ~Angelique wrote: > > I found some 100% linen at a decent price. My problem however is the > horrible banana yellow color. Can I use rit color remover? Perhaps > another removal suggestion? I really want this linen! > > Happy Friday, ~Angelique > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Shop for Back-to-School deals on Yahoo! Shopping. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 13:39:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8AHdmBw008300 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:39:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AHct4d016938 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:38:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AHcrBh082459; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:38:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from audiogram.mail.pas.earthlink.net (audiogram.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.253]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AHclBh082375 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:38:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-4.155.57.117.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([4.155.57.117] helo=HELENPINTO) by audiogram.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1C5pM9-0008Ml-14 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:38:47 -0700 Message-ID: <02b201c4975d$00702a00$79399b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Slightly OT -- sewing polartec Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:38:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9ef10d53f4b8db38742c8cece550cc6f7de350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.155.57.117 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The following is from Sandra Betzina's _More Fabric Savvy_; hope this answers some of your questions. -Helen/Aidan Fleece, pages 64-65 Fabric Fact Synthetic fleece is a knit fabric that stretches on the crossgrain. It sheds water and holds body heat, but allows perspiration to escape. Polar Fleece by Malden Mills. is the best-quality fleece since it pills and stretches the least. It also feels denser and has a deeper pile. In generic brand fleece, look for the "anti-pill" factor. Some stores are now carrying a fleece that is 80% silk, 13% polyester, and 7% viscose for about $25 a yard. This fleece is denser with a deeper pile. Suitable For Sweatshirts, pull-on pants, short cropped jackets, vest, even A-line skirts. To prevent a skirt from sticking to thighs, line with lingerie nylon tricot. Fleece is comfortable and warm and survives years of abuse. Sewing Tips Stayingstitching stretches fleece. Stabilize necklines with 1/4-inch wide twill tape cut to size from the pattern tissue. Stabilize crotch and shoulder seams with 1/4-inch wide clear elastic. Hand baste. If you notice a seam stretching as you sew, place finger behind presser foot as with easing. Finger press darts to one side and topstitch to flatten. Preshrink Not necessary. After construction, machine-wash inside out along or with other fleece garments in cool water, gentle cycle, using liquid (not powdered) detergent. Machine-dry on low setting or let hang dry. Do not dry-clean. Layout "With nap" layout, double thickness. To determine right side of fabric, pull on cross-grain; fabric curls to wrong side. Be consistent with which side of the fabric you use, as the pile height may differ. Use pattern weights. Marking Chalk, fabric markers. Identify wrong side with tape or chalk. Cutting Scissors or large rotary cutter. If you are using a pattern not specifically designed for fleece, cut top collar 1/4 inch bigger and round off collar points so it can be turned smoothly. Cut with a 1/4 inch seam allowance, or cut a regular width seam allowance and trim it down after sewing. Interfacing None, except for zippers and behind closures. Use non-fusible interfacing such as silk organza in the seam allowance since the pressing required to fuse a fusible will crush the nap. Thread Good-quality polyester. Needle 70/10 H, 80/12 H 75/11 HS. Fleece is not needle particular. Stitch Length 3.0 mm straight stitch or long serger stitch. Use stretch stitch in crotch seams. Presser Foot Satin stitch foot (also known as embroidery foot) eliminates wavy, stretched seams where regular construction is used. Seam Finish For a durable, attractive finish, finger-press seam open and topstitch with a double-needle ZWI stretch 4.0 mm from the right side, straddling seam as you topstitch. Trim seam allowances close to stitching. Or construct with 4-thread overlock and lengthen stitch slightly. Use differential feed if you have it. If not, sew with finger behind presser foot as with easing. (See #13 on p. 206.) Pressing No pressing; fabric melts. Topstitching Topstitch 1/4 inch from edge. Lengthen stitch to 4.0 mm or longer. (See #10 on p. 211.) Closures YKK. plastic zippers. Use sew-in interfacing on zipper seam allowance. Snaps must also be reinforced with sew-in interfacing between layers to prevent them from pulling out of the fabric. (See #11 on p. 213, #19 on p. 215.) Machine buttonholes stretch out unless you hand-baste a strip of clear elastic on the wrong side and make the buttonhole through it. Hem Since fleece does not ravel, edges can be left as is. Other options include pinking, top-stitching with double needle, overlocking with decorative thread on needles and woolly nylon on loopers, binding with faux leather or a knit cut on the crossgrain or blanket-stitching on the serger or by hand. Ribbing is also popular. (See #32 on p.221.) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 13:44:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8AHi8SH008330 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:44:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AHhK4d017496 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:43:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AHhIBh086089; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:43:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-118.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.118] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AHhFBh085987 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:43:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by mail.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BF52425DB for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:10:09 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4141E794.9090100@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 12:42:45 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? References: <000701c49516$7e5008d0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <000701c49516$7e5008d0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi, just curious about what your projekts will be for the next months. Nothing too exciting. I have a customer who wants assorted ren-fest clothing for himself and his family, they are requesting new items about every two weeks. We haven't decided what we will do for Halloween. Probably just pull something that I already have out of my costume closet. My costuming partner in crime is getting married in early November, so we haven't had much time to plan anything for this year. *She* is working on a wedding dress. I have a dance event in October, too. Again, probably just pull a costume out of the closet. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 14:32:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8AIWSG7008630 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 14:32:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AIQj4d022937 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 12:26:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AIPdBh020381; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 12:25:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-118.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.118] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AIP0Bh019699 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 12:25:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by mail.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30DB2425DB for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:52:07 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4141F16A.9000503@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:24:42 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen/ Dye removal References: <20040910160243.26676.qmail@web51408.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040910160243.26676.qmail@web51408.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ~Angelique wrote: > I found some 100% linen at a decent price. My problem however is the horrible banana yellow color. Can I use rit color remover? Perhaps another removal suggestion? I really want this linen! > I had some horrid pistachio green linen that I played with last fall. I tried the dye remover and got no results, but it overdyed very well. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 15:09:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8AJ9ONQ008792 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:09:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AJ8d4d027380 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:08:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AJ8TBh068918; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:08:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-118.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AJ8NBh068436 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:08:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by mail.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2179C425DB for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 14:35:17 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4141FB89.2090205@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 14:07:53 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Surviving faire References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Catherine Kinsey wrote: > Also, know > yourself! I know I don't do heat well and, much as I enjoy creating > court costumes, I have absolutely no desire to stand around in one all > day Oh yeah, that's why I don't do opening weekend. Way too hot. The walk across the parking lot would do me in. One thing that comes to mind is that old quote "Only mad dogs and Englishmen stand in the noonday sun." If you can get out of the sun, do. I know some sites are better than others about shade, and some folks (nobility performing 'court') can't avoid it, but you'd be surprised how many folks just stand there getting overheated when seats in the shade are nearby and available. That, and if it's really hot and muggy I just find a place to park and watch people go by, rather than exerting myself and inducing heat exhaustion. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 15:23:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8AJNg28008889 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:23:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AJMo4d028888 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:22:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AJMjBh080626; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:22:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AJMdBh080546 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:22:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.183] (p23.3c04.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.183]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i8AJLJ613841 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:21:19 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <4141FB89.2090205@reddawn.net> References: <4141FB89.2090205@reddawn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <524898FD-035F-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Surviving faire Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:26:32 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO When I hear all these horror stories about wearing court costume to summer Renn faires, I'm surprised OSHA or someone else hasn't shut them down. I guess OSHA wouldnt be the right agency, but it sounds so extremely unhealthful that I'm beginning to wonder how the faire organizers can even allow it without provisions being made for such participants, especially the paid ones (like air conditioned booths or something to that effect). On Sep 10, 2004, at 1:07 PM, Dawn wrote: > Catherine Kinsey wrote: > > >> Also, know >> yourself! I know I don't do heat well and, much as I enjoy creating >> court costumes, I have absolutely no desire to stand around in one all >> day > > Oh yeah, that's why I don't do opening weekend. Way too hot. The walk > across the parking lot would do me in. > > One thing that comes to mind is that old quote "Only mad dogs and > Englishmen stand in the noonday sun." If you can get out of the sun, > do. I know some sites are better than others about shade, and some > folks (nobility performing 'court') can't avoid it, but you'd be > surprised how many folks just stand there getting overheated when > seats in the shade are nearby and available. > > That, and if it's really hot and muggy I just find a place to park and > watch people go by, rather than exerting myself and inducing heat > exhaustion. > > > > Dawn > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 15:32:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8AJWC2N008930 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:32:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AJVP4d029430 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:31:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AJVMBh087477; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:31:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (chori.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AJVGBh087369 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:31:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ldownward@chori.org) X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Sophos http://raeinternet.com/mpp Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP-TLS id 1390042 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 12:31:09 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.0.0.040405 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 12:31:09 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Surviving faire From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4141FB89.2090205@reddawn.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dawn wrote: SNIP > That, and if it's really hot and muggy I just find a place to park and > watch people go by, rather than exerting myself and inducing heat > exhaustion. > And that's exactly why learning to card or spin, even on a drop spindle, or needlework of any sort is such a great thing to do at a faire. You can find shade close to the audience and sit there with your goblet of water working on your needlework and talk to the visitors who really want to know what you're doing and how. You can cool down and teach and act all at once! LynnD _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 15:39:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8AJdat6008966 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:39:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AJcS4d000322 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:38:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AJcOBh093113; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:38:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AJcJBh092999 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:38:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.183] (p23.3c04.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.183]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i8AJau615052 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:36:56 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <7FBB02B3-0361-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: Historical Costume From: Sylvia Rognstad Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:42:07 -0600 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] What you all do with costumes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is related to both one of the current topics of discussion and to my question about selling costumes. Maybe it has been discussed before at a time when I wasn't a list member, so if it has and you don't wish to persue it again please let me know. I keep noticing your answers to the question posed about current and future work and am wondering what all of you out there do with the costumes you make. I guess I'm both curious about the composition of this group as well as wondering what other possibilities for money-making with costumes there are. If not involved in the SCA or with Renn Faires, what do you do? Are you in reenactment groups or role-playing groups? Are you into museum work or clothing restoration and preservation? Are you, like me, in theatre? I'm really very curious. When I first got started in theatre decades ago, that was about the only venue available for costumers. Now the costuming world has expanded so much. If this is of no interest to the group at large or has already been covered and you want to write me privately, please do so. Thank you. Sylrog _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 15:52:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8AJqSpX009019 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:52:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AJpf4d002102 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:51:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AJpcBh003301; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:51:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AJpSBh003154 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:51:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F34322B84A for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 14:51:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p705.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.213.198]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id A3166D3FB for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 14:51:24 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 14:51:40 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A17@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Court Garb in hot weather[ bit long] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -----Original Message----- <<>>> As was said, Linen is the best. Linen/cotton blend and cotton. <<<<>> I know of one woman who made her hoop skirt out of netting and had a light weight cotton brocade panel in the front and a panel in the back to "balance" the weight of the hoop. She said that it helps keep things on the cool side and no one sees the netting. <<<>> If water is all you have then drink but you really need something like Gatorade, power aid or even the SCA vinegar drink Sej...(sp?)once in a while. I make some vinegaraid when I go camping and I know the weather will be hot. If you can stand it, tomato juice or V8 juice 8oz every 6 hrs. I was informed that you should only drink the Gatorade "after" you have been sweating, not before. If you are sweating a lot then you need to replenish the vitamins, minerals and electrolytes that you have sweated out. Drinking water only does not replace. Do not drink caffienated beverages as caffeine is a diuretic. If you don't like bananas try mangos, they may not have as much as the bananas but they have potassium. <> And you can take snack size ziplock bags, fill with 1/2 - 3/4 water, freeze, then use. <<<>> They have ice trays that make ice cubes that you can put into liter bottles. If you have a spray bottle with a wide enough opening put some ice in it. or the night before put the bottle half full in the freezer, take out in the morning, add water and let melt. Also, if you don't wear makeup, take some washcloths wet them (option: wetting them with mint water) but not dripping/soaking wet, stick them in folded in a ziplock bag and freeze them. Put them in your cooler and pull them out and pat your face with this and place on neck and wrists. Do not wipe your face unless your sure there are no ice slivers that can cut you. Also, keeping a bunch of these washcloth bags on the top of the stuff in your cooler in a layer style, this will help keep your stuff underneath cooler longer. There is also on the market a portable fine mister that you add water and ice and pump and mist. Finally, if you are constantly in the sun and you have a very nice court dress, though it will cut some of the breathability of the fabric down, you might want to invest in a UV protectant spray so that your fabric will not sun bleach so fast. De Note: perhaps, though it is not life threatening, people can say what they do for those wet/damp weekends as well as the brisk weekends. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 15:56:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8AJupHK009030 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:56:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AJu74d002573 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:56:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AJu3Bh006710; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:56:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-118.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AJttBh006546 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:55:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by mail.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CFF6425DB for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:23:03 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <414206BB.5080408@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 14:55:39 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] What you all do with costumes References: <7FBB02B3-0361-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> In-Reply-To: <7FBB02B3-0361-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > If not involved in the SCA or > with Renn Faires, what do you do? Are you in reenactment groups or > role-playing groups? Are you into museum work or clothing restoration > and preservation? Are you, like me, in theatre? I'm really very > curious. I've done all the above at one time or another. I started in theatre, went to LARP, but it was in the SCA where I found a genuine interest in costume and clothing history -- and my finances got a lot better about then, too. I've flirted with local SCA (not my original group) and Re-enactment groups, but as it is mostly a social thing and it hasn't 'clicked' here for me lately it's just been Ren-fests and dance events. I attend the occasion sci-fi/fantasy/game con in costume, too. Then of course, there's Halloween. :) Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 16:37:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8AKbD3D009215 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:37:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AKa54d007386 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 14:36:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AKa1Bh040668; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 14:36:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-118.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AKZtBh040545 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 14:35:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by mail.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C401F425DB for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:03:04 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4142101D.20909@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:35:41 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Garb in cold/wet weather References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Note: perhaps, though it is not life threatening, people can say what they > do for those wet/damp weekends as well as the brisk weekends. Wool. I've done outdoor events in January in New England in the snow. They also tend to do winter events in buildings without heat in the SCA up there. Wool socks, wool longjohns, wool tunics. Scotchguard on the boots. I had a wool cloak with Scotchguard for a while, and it was fantastic at Pennsic, which is famous for getting very wet and then cold at night. While the cloak eventually soaked through the wool kept me warm when the temperature dropped (wool insulates even when wet). It dried quickly in the sun as soon as the rain stopped. I gave up the cloak, though, because too much heat escapes out of it if you have to do anything. You can't keep your arms wrapped up in it forever. So now I just go with wool tunics, doublets, etc. If wool bothers you, get some of the high-tech insulating underwear they sell to campers and only wear the wool as outer layers. Know where your temperature regulation points are. It could be your hands, feet, head, or neck. Keep those areas covered. I can go without a hat or gloves, but the feet and neck must stay warm or I freeze. YMMV. At ren-fest when the rain sets in I think the most important thing is to have dry feet. Seam-seal and Scotchguard the boots. Invest in plastic boot liners if necessary. Keep dry socks and spare shoes in the car. If you expect rain, add a thermos of hot tea for the ride home :) Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 16:51:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8AKpkKL009306 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:51:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AKoI4d009824 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 14:50:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AKnQBh051641; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 14:49:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav24.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.81]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AKmLBh050799 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 14:48:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:48:15 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by bay9-dav24.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 20:48:15 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040910015151.97244.qmail@web13524.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Member/Bookshelf Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:48:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Sep 2004 20:48:15.0883 (UTC) FILETIME=[7EE18DB0:01C49777] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I am "clothing" a group of women for a re-enactment > set in America in 1845, and another bunch for another > re-enactment set in 1853. This is not my main period of interest so I'm not aware of the sources out there, but you might want to take a look at Janet Arnold's Patterns of Fashion. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 16:56:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8AKu3Sh009312 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:56:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AKt24d010702 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 14:55:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AKswBh056653; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 14:54:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav3.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.107]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AKspBh056512 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 14:54:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:54:45 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by bay9-dav3.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 20:54:45 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040910.073308.-109926673.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Surviving Faire & re-enactments in Court Costume, Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:54:51 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Sep 2004 20:54:45.0393 (UTC) FILETIME=[670C1010:01C49778] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I've been doing Bristol RenFaire in Wisconsin for the last 15 years and I > have been frequently heard to bemoan the fact that someone in the past > decided that High Summer in the MidWest was a good time to do full > Elizabethans! As far as I know not only didn't the Elizabethans ever deal > with temperatures like this, modern Brits don't deal with temps like this > either. No, but the Italians and Spanish probably had to deal with temperatures like that, and had clothing that covered as much of the body as English clothing did. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 17:09:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8AL94nw009362 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 17:09:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AL7w4d012764 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:07:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AL7qBh067851; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:07:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web51110.mail.yahoo.com (web51110.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.131]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8AL7kBh067676 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:07:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from claudine_on_the_net@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040910210738.10573.qmail@web51110.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [66.17.149.13] by web51110.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 14:07:38 PDT Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 14:07:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Claudine Subject: Re: [h-cost] Surviving faire To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <524898FD-035F-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What horror stories? All I've read is good advice for dealing with heat, which apply no matter what your wearing at a faire, or what your doing at all in hot weather. It seems to me that summer faires are, to use a widely different example, no different than the 100 mile rides that bicycle clubs put on every weekend throughout the summer and often well into the winter: play at your own risk. I've seen people sitting on the side of the road with heat exhaustion, or flat on their backs after a crash. These incidences aren't the club's fault, and no one is going to tell bicycle clubs that they can't sponsor rides because it's hot out. Anyway, to get back to the topic and then back to lurking.... The performers I met at the faire this year really enjoy what they're doing, and I enjoy watching them (well, I enjoy seeing anyone in costume), and isn't that what the faire is all about? They *all* handled the heat adequately and gracefully. Heat is something you just accept and prepare for; if you can't, then don't play. Ok, I'll be quiet now. :) Claudine --- Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > When I hear all these horror stories about wearing > court costume to > summer Renn faires, I'm surprised OSHA or someone > else hasn't shut them > down. I guess OSHA wouldnt be the right agency, but > it sounds so > extremely unhealthful that I'm beginning to wonder > how the faire > organizers can even allow it without provisions > being made for such > participants, especially the paid ones (like air > conditioned booths or > something to that effect). > > On Sep 10, 2004, at 1:07 PM, Dawn wrote: > > > Catherine Kinsey wrote: > > > > > >> Also, know > >> yourself! I know I don't do heat well and, much > as I enjoy creating > >> court costumes, I have absolutely no desire to > stand around in one all > >> day > > > > Oh yeah, that's why I don't do opening weekend. > Way too hot. The walk > > across the parking lot would do me in. > > > > One thing that comes to mind is that old quote > "Only mad dogs and > > Englishmen stand in the noonday sun." If you can > get out of the sun, > > do. I know some sites are better than others > about shade, and some > > folks (nobility performing 'court') can't avoid > it, but you'd be > > surprised how many folks just stand there getting > overheated when > > seats in the shade are nearby and available. > > > > That, and if it's really hot and muggy I just find > a place to park and > > watch people go by, rather than exerting myself > and inducing heat > > exhaustion. > > > > > > > > Dawn > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 17:21:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8ALL6AX009403 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 17:21:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ALK84d014541 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:20:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ALK4Bh077882; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:20:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8ALJwBh077685 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:19:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m08.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABAWEGUBAJ4DEFJ for (sender ); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 14:18:57 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OmxD9AMR03EvRj9O23WS6iI= Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id J67SFNHZ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 14:18:30 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 14:14:15 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: surviving heat in heavy costume... Message-ID: <20040910.141820.1852.1.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-5 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-ContentStamp: 2:3:2621411504 X-MAIL-INFO: 21ba7eef3bbb2eb72e77331abb97f777d3ef17efaa5e9eabbb972a5be7d7ee7ab37b7a1b2fb30a0a2b0a933a6a8a6e1f4e030e43fb0e4b9b432e2e3f X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bring powdered Gatorade and mix it up however you like it. Quinine also helps with heat--and for some reason, you'll taste really BAD to mosquitos! Arlys ________________________________________________________________ Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 17:37:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8ALbOCC009428 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 17:37:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ALa84d017212 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:36:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ALa2Bh091326; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:36:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ALZrBh091211 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:35:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06060 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:42:28 -0500 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:42:27 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] What you all do with costumes In-Reply-To: <7FBB02B3-0361-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 10 Sep 2004, Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > This is related to both one of the current topics of discussion and to > my question about selling costumes. Maybe it has been discussed before > at a time when I wasn't a list member, so if it has and you don't wish > to persue it again please let me know. We get new members all the time, so always worth refreshing people's memory. For one thing, it helps people remember that there are a *lot* of different purposes, goals, and ways of looking at costume represented on this list. > I keep noticing your answers to the question posed about current and > future work and am wondering what all of you out there do with the > costumes you make. I guess I'm both curious about the composition of > this group as well as wondering what other possibilities for > money-making with costumes there are. If not involved in the SCA or > with Renn Faires, what do you do? Are you in reenactment groups or > role-playing groups? Are you into museum work or clothing restoration > and preservation? You'll find all those types on this list. I'd say a majority of the people here do re-enactment or dress-up events (SCA, living history, Faire, LARP, CostumeCon). Some make costumes to sell to people who do these things. Some collect or trade in vintage costume. Some, like you, are in theater or film costuming. I'm probably an exception. I research and lecture on medieval costume, to academic audiences and also to other groups (re-enactors, historic fiction writers, whoever is interested). I do sew costumes, but mostly to test theories and display examples for my lecture audiences. I don't wear costumes myself often, but I do make costumes for people who do active re-enactment and the like, so they can "field-test" for me and so I can see how a cut works on a particular figure type. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 17:39:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8ALdCTE009441 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 17:39:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ALcM4d017663 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:38:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ALc8Bh093157; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:38:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from granger.mail.mindspring.net (granger.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ALc4Bh093092 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:38:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cahuff@mindspring.com) Received: from user-2inik15.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.121.80.37] helo=[10.0.1.2]) by granger.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1C5t5l-0001pd-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 17:38:03 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200409101801.i8AI14Bj000826@net.indra.com> References: <200409101801.i8AI14Bj000826@net.indra.com> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 17:37:55 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: fastusminimus Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re:of bananas and other treats.... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:01 PM -0600 9/10/04, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: >Bananas are great for potassium, and Carol's warning about overdoing the >potassium is very important. The reality is that any faire that's so hot >that you need the potassium will just kill bananas (plus you can't >necessarily eat them in front of any audience and keep your credibility). My >favorite potassium load for faire is cantalope. I can cut it up at home and >keep it in a plastic container in the cooler until needed and it's cold and >refreshing and just what's needed by early afternoon. But what about that banana (or skin) they just found this spring in a rubbish pit that was like Tudorish era??? I think expanding knowledge is fun But (smacking head) I forgot that melons could be period....and frozen are just yummy... Ta Carol -- Creative Clutter is Better Than Idle Neatness! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 17:48:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8ALmvL9009528 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 17:48:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ALmC4d019124 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:48:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ALm9Bh001188; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:48:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8ALm0Bh001098 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:48:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 23445 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2004 21:49:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO webmail.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com with SMTP; 10 Sep 2004 21:49:00 -0000 Received: from 24.4.69.40 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com); by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 14:47:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1116.24.4.69.40.1094852879.squirrel@24.4.69.40> In-Reply-To: References: <20040910160243.26676.qmail@web51408.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 14:47:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen/ Dye removal From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a X-Mailer: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > You could use Rit color remover or plain chlorine bleach. > > Sylrog I wouldn't recommend the chlorine bleach. Bleach breaks down the fabric fibers and can weaken your fabric. I had personal experience with this recently when I tried to bleach out the stains in my kitchen sink. I placed a cloth in the sink, poured bleach on it and let it sit overnight. It was still intact when I put it in the wash machine but when I pulled the cloth out of the dryer, it had many large holes in it where the bleach weakened the fibers. If it were me, I would try overdying your linen. Yellow is the component to many other colors that could be nice...gold (add more yellow and a touch of brown), green (add blue), brown (add blue & red), orange (add red), etc. If you are not sure what color you might get, play with some watercolor paints. Mix other colors with a banana yellow and see what you get. It is actually quite fun to overdye as long as you aren't trying to achieve a specific color! Diana Habra www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 18:02:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8AM2wxb009695 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 18:02:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AM2G4d021391 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:02:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AM2BBh012815; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:02:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from newmail.logical.net (newmail.logical.net [209.23.116.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AM26Bi012712 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:02:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from homeec@telenet.net) Received: from computername (ip-208-20-92-167.modem.logical.net [208.20.92.167]) by newmail.logical.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8AM1wYA000541 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 18:02:02 -0400 Message-ID: <014501c49781$ca33bc20$a75c14d0@computername> From: "Home Ec" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040910160243.26676.qmail@web51408.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen/ Dye removal Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 18:01:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I found some 100% linen at a decent price. My problem however is the > horrible banana yellow color. Can I use rit color remover? Perhaps another > removal suggestion? I really want this linen! Remember the Barbie Pink linen quite a few of us picked up at JoAnne's a couple of years ago? I know Robin was using her for her demo fittings - at least, she was when she did one after her Boston lecture. There was quite a discussion of How To Remove the Hot Pink Color. What WAS the consensus on how to change that color? I found I still have some. Rowena _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 18:03:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8AM3hJc009699 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 18:03:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AM364d021506 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:03:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AM31Bh013458; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:03:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AM2dBh013188 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:02:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from bridgett.cornell.edu (syr-24-58-127-194.twcny.rr.com [24.58.127.194]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i8AM2aYN010318 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 18:02:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20040910174825.00b89640@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 18:03:21 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Mari Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] What you all do with costumes In-Reply-To: References: <7FBB02B3-0361-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-PMX-Version: 4.6.1.107272, Antispam-Core: 4.6.1.106808, Antispam-Data: 2004.9.10.3 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO HI Sylvia, hi folks... Like Robin I am an avid reconstructionist / archeologist / historian. Although I do participate in the SCA - hey I gotta wear this stuff somewhere - I research and recreate clothing of the Renaissance as my first love. I just love trolling through inventories, wills, charters, and books of trade to find the economic influences on clothing. And my second passion is hand work, sewing, plain sewing, openwork, linen work, drawnwork - so the creation of clothing using historically accurate methods and materials is just a natural compliment to my desire to understand the clothing. And I'll take this moment to add a tiny note about one of my personal 'teeth grinders' - The use of the word 'garb' in the SCA - Although many will see it as a perfectly fine word - Its meaning, especially in the SCA, is colored to mean something unreal, temporary, or costume-like. I prefer to use the word clothing for the pieces I make. Indeed, my efforts are not shoddy, temporary, make-do or to be confused with theatrical clothing. And when did I sneak up onto this soapbox... well, that was unexpected. ; > Have fun all... And Robin, I'll finally get to hear you lecture. Hoping to meet you. Bridgette / Mari Webmaster@vet.cornell.edu Mari Stewart College of Veterinary Medicine Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 18:17:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8AMHZJp009799 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 18:17:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AMGl4d023912 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:16:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AMGZBh024333; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:16:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AMGQBh024220 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:16:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA06846 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 17:23:20 -0500 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 17:23:19 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen/ Dye removal In-Reply-To: <014501c49781$ca33bc20$a75c14d0@computername> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 10 Sep 2004, Home Ec wrote: > > I found some 100% linen at a decent price. My problem however is the > > horrible banana yellow color. Can I use rit color remover? Perhaps another > > removal suggestion? I really want this linen! > > Remember the Barbie Pink linen quite a few of us picked up at JoAnne's > a couple of years ago? I know Robin was using her for her demo > fittings - at least, she was when she did one after her Boston > lecture. There was quite a discussion of How To Remove the Hot Pink > Color. > > What WAS the consensus on how to change that color? I found I still > have some. Rowena I bought a ton of this stuff (and I'm still using it for fittings!). The color varied slightly from bolt to bolt. I bleached down one of the pieces to a nice powder pink, and someone else got a pale peach out of hers. To my knowledge, linen normally doesn't mind bleaching, at least as done in the washer with the bleach heavily diluted in the water. I wouldn't pour bleach directly on it. Cotton, now -- I've known cotton to go to holes after too much bleach exposure. And of course don't get bleach anywhere near an animal product such as wool or silk. I have a little cup of bleach on the counter right now, busily dissolving the wool in a swatch so I can see whether it's 100% or a blend. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 18:18:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8AMIV7x009827 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 18:18:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AMHj4d024055 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:17:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AMHWBh025059; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:17:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AMGeBh024335 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:16:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gia_gavino@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.118 ([204.127.197.118]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <2004091022163301400mecs5e>; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 22:16:33 +0000 Received: from [24.16.244.181] by 204.127.197.118; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 22:16:32 +0000 From: gia_gavino@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Garb in cold/wet weather Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 22:16:32 +0000 Message-Id: <091020042216.393.414227C0000219D5000001892200750784010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Jul 16 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: Z2lhX2dhdmlub0Bjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings! Yes I agree wool is one of my favorite fibers to work with for all garb except the underwear (where I use linen). The correct weight of wool on even a hot summer day is better than *any* synthetic! No matter how pretty the fabric design of the sythetic fabric, it does not even begin to replace the comfort and breatheablility of the wool. Just my thoughts on it... -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > > Wool. I've done outdoor events in January in New England in the snow. > Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 18:22:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8AMMoBX009903 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 18:22:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AMLn4d024825 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:21:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AMLmBh028434; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:21:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AMLhBh028322 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:21:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gia_gavino@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.115 ([204.127.197.115]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <200409102221380130051ks0e>; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 22:21:38 +0000 Received: from [24.16.244.181] by 204.127.197.115; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 22:21:36 +0000 From: gia_gavino@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: surviving heat in heavy costume... Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 22:21:36 +0000 Message-Id: <091020042221.19976.414228EF000D9B0F00004E082200735834010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Jul 16 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: Z2lhX2dhdmlub0Bjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO OhYES!!! Tonic water actually tastes *wonderful* on a hot day. If you don't like the tartness, you can mix it with cranberry or a cranberry blend juice drink (recommended by my doctor - no less!!). This is my favorite kind of drink on hot days. I find that I 'twitch' less at night when I have a 12 oz glass of tonic water mixed with cranberry juice...and a side benefit is that if there is a tendancy of UTI's the cranberry juice helps keeps the Ph levels ok. -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > Bring powdered Gatorade and mix it up however you like it. Quinine also > helps with heat--and for some reason, you'll taste really BAD to > mosquitos! > > Arlys _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 18:28:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8AMSegW009974 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 18:28:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AMS44d025888 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:28:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AMRcBh032635; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:27:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AMRFBh032361 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:27:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-164.cvip.net [129.8.205.164]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFAB562B39 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:27:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040910150210.0258aa50@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:03:33 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen/ Dye removal In-Reply-To: <20040910160243.26676.qmail@web51408.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200409101252.i8ACqKBj072279@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:02 AM 9/10/2004 -0700, you wrote: >I found some 100% linen at a decent price. My problem however is the >horrible banana yellow color. Can I use rit color remover? Perhaps another >removal suggestion? I really want this linen! > >Happy Friday, ~Angelique Dye remover won't remove the industrial dyed linen, not fully. It may fade it a little, but not all the way. I suggest if you want it, to overdye it into another color. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 18:29:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8AMTnCV010006 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 18:29:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AMTB4d026023 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:29:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AMT9Bh033820; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:29:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AMRDBh032352 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:27:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-164.cvip.net [129.8.205.164]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F46D6006F for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:27:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040910142751.0257b3f0@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 14:33:36 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Surviving Faire & re-enactments in Court Costume, In-Reply-To: References: <20040910080352.65278.qmail@web53108.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:16 AM 9/10/2004 -0400, you wrote: >I also note that at least in the biography of Eleanor of Aquitaine I just >finished reading, "court" was held at Xmas, not midsummer. So maybe they >only got dressed up in winter? > >Just wondering... >Lauren Hi Lauren I recently read that book as well. For Elizabethan times, court was held in winter because that is when the Queen would return from her summer progresses out of London, and Parliament be held and all that. She went on summer progresses to avoid the plague that often rampaged London during the summer. While she was out, most of her courtiers would return to their estates to take care of them, unless Elizabeth had need of them. I think the same occurred with Henry's court as well. And I have always wondered if the fine full court suits they are wearing as seen in their portraits, would be similar to us wearing our Sunday finest for our modern photo shoots, which we don't wear the rest of the week. Because it would be wonderful to be able to dress down a bit in court to something cooler, but still look "noble" and without having to resort to peasant wear. Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 18:30:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8AMU2O6010015 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 18:30:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AMTN4d026062 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:29:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AMTLBh033963; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:29:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AMREBh032355 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:27:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-164.cvip.net [129.8.205.164]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1801262AB2 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:27:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040910144256.00b14ae8@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:01:25 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Surviving Faire & re-enactments in Court Costume, In-Reply-To: <22606E84-0339-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:53 AM 9/10/2004 -0600, you wrote: >One thing I don't understand about the Renn Faire weather issue is why >they aren't held in the winer months, especially in states like California >where the weather is pleasant year-around. Or they could be situated >indoors like Dickens faires or a combo of indoors-outdoors. >Has anyone ever considered one of those options? > >Sylrog Hi Sylrog, In Central California, our local faires are held from March - July. August-September has some faires along the coast, so it is cooler there, and the coastal breezes are nice. Even Casa de Fruita has breezes, and yet I have heard people complain how it would be "too hot" there. Not as hot as where I live, believe me. October has more faires (nearly every weekend in October) in the central area (Fresno, Folsom, & Casa de Fruita still, coming to mind) and the weather is cooler. November, there is one at Kearney Park, and it almost always rains there. Customers don't like the rain, even tho we are the ones running around in the mud. November-December switches to Dickens events, then early January for 12th Night social gatherings. Nothing much happens until March again, except to recoup and make new stuff for the year. Around in Central California, it is very foggy during the winter months, especially right after it rains. Since most events are outdoors on grassy areas, when it rains it becomes a bog, and customers don't like to walk in bogs, and vendors don't like loosing money with little to no customers. And that morning tulle fog sometimes will not lift until late afternoon, or can hang around for days. Why aren't faires held indoors where it is cooler? The cost of renting a large enough arena and paying for the A/C, especially on the tight budgets most faire producers have. Most of these local faires are fund raisers for charity, and holding them outdoors at a park or college lawn is cheaper than renting a large warehouse and paying the A/C bill for one weekend, and security and insurance (which is higher for an event inside). One event in Hanford is still free and held at a city park. Also, the ambiance of a faire is easier to achieve outdoors with trees, than it is indoors in a warehouse building. There are a lot of factors as to why these are held outdoors. I think the biggest I can think of is my memory of my first ren faire, in Agoura Hills - Los Angeles. The faire was in a canyon filled with trees (like Novato, too). Once you were inside the gates, you could not see any sort of "mundane" world, no buildings, no cars, nothing modern... just the faire world inside. It was magical for me, and for many faire people, to step into this other world and leave your cares behind for a few hours. Modern buildings for faires just doesn't have that same appeal. I know of Celtic festivals, like in Sonoma/Calaveras that uses both a fair ground buildings, with outdoor areas. Not the same ambiance at all. I think many faire producers want that kind of ambiance at their events. my tuppence, Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 18:30:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8AMUNY5010020 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 18:30:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AMTa4d026110 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:29:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AMTXBh034131; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:29:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AMRDBh032351 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:27:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-164.cvip.net [129.8.205.164]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0673D5FF61 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:27:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040910141500.0257dae0@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 14:23:08 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Surviving Faire & re-enactments in Court Costume, In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:49 AM 9/10/2004 +0100, you wrote: >Yes, the "mini Ice Age" has been discussed before on this list. Don't >forget also that many posters are referring to regions of the USA where >summers are hotter than in modern Britain, let alone the 16th - 17th >century Britain the clothing was originally designed for. > >Kate Bunting >Library, University of Derby Oh yes I am talking about hot California (avg temps 90+ F.). Some of my friends once went to Scotland for Tattoo, and they performed the streets in full court garb. They said it was so much more comfortable for them to perform in full court garb in Scotland during the summer, than it ever would be in California, except for maybe the one snow faire we have experienced (Lake Tahoe, early July), where it was wonderful to bundle into our wool cloaks. In fall/winter we are actually comfortable in garb, court, Scots or otherwise. It just rains so much that the customers don't want to attend. And faire definitely isn't for everyone. We rather think some of us are kinda nuts to be doing this when it is so very hot, but we have a passion for something in faire that keeps bringing us back, faire after faire. Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 18:30:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8AMUPFh010024 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 18:30:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AMTh4d026150 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:29:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AMTgBh034232; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:29:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AMRFBh032365 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:27:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-164.cvip.net [129.8.205.164]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47CD562BBC for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:27:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040910150347.0248a2c0@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:18:35 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Surviving faire In-Reply-To: <524898FD-035F-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> References: <4141FB89.2090205@reddawn.net> <4141FB89.2090205@reddawn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 01:26 PM 9/10/2004 -0600, you wrote: >When I hear all these horror stories about wearing court costume to summer >Renn faires, I'm surprised OSHA or someone else hasn't shut them down. I >guess OSHA wouldnt be the right agency, but it sounds so extremely >unhealthful that I'm beginning to wonder how the faire organizers can even >allow it without provisions being made for such participants, especially >the paid ones (like air conditioned booths or something to that effect). Provisions are made for participants. There is often one nurse on staff, as well as many nurses involved in faire already. Some have EMTs on call or even standing by. Water (often with ice) is provided behind every stage. And at least in our guilds, we all know the drill, or we should. New comers are taught to bring water and appropriate food, and usually watched by more experience people who know the signs of heat exhaustion. Our court has full repast to make sure everyone eats something once that day, and we encourage constant nibbling. We have water bearers who do a great job of making sure we are well watered. And there is usually some building nearby that has A/C for those who need it. That's usually where the nurses stations are located, or even actor's camps, like at Hanford. Sometimes it is hard getting kids away from them and out performing like they should. There has only been one situation that I know of where a guild leader deliberately put the health of his members at risk for a performance in the sun, and the rest of the faire rallied together and kept his members safe, well watered and fed salty foods, and had a nurse prepped and standing by next to the "stage" in case of any problems. Thankfully nothing happened, his gig went off well, and he was asked to not come back to that faire by the producer. Most guild leaders look out for their members, with food and water out at all times, and the health of a person coming first. I guess you can say that we all know the risks, so we minimize them as best we can. And we still have a lot of fun at faire, which is why we keep coming back to play. Kimiko PS. My favorite faire food is watermelon... or ushka-melon as we used to call them. Not sure if they are period, but a great way to get minerals and water in one handy food item. Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 18:30:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8AMUZ7D010027 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 18:30:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AMTu4d026225 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:29:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AMTsBh034440; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:29:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AMRsBh032784 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:27:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-164.cvip.net [129.8.205.164]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC4785F46C for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:27:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040910151852.025849c8@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:21:47 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] What you all do with costumes In-Reply-To: <7FBB02B3-0361-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 01:42 PM 9/10/2004 -0600, you wrote: >I guess I'm both curious about the composition of this group as well as >wondering what other possibilities for money-making with costumes there >are. If not involved in the SCA or with Renn Faires, what do you do? Are >you in reenactment groups or role-playing groups? Are you into museum >work or clothing restoration and preservation? Are you, like me, in theatre? I started costuming in high school theatre (early 80s). Then I got into gaming, then the SCA and Ren Faires in the same year. SCA took up too much time, so I stuck with faires from '87 to '98. I then spent five years doing LARPs, and a few years ago quit that, and went back into faires. Now I am hoping to make a local business from my skills, but expect to take some time to get that really going. Part of my other activities this winter is to finish my portfolio, both online and print. Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 18:30:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8AMUsvb010032 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 18:30:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AMU64d026268 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:30:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AMU5Bh034603; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:30:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AMRtBh032792 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:27:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-164.cvip.net [129.8.205.164]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53C1F5FC87 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:27:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040910152229.02517c98@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:25:57 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Court Garb in hot weather[ bit long] In-Reply-To: References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A17@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 02:51 PM 9/10/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Finally, if you are constantly in the sun and you have a very nice court >dress, though it will cut some of the breathability of the fabric down, you >might want to invest in a UV protectant spray so that your fabric will not >sun bleach so fast. Ok, I have used Scotchgard in a spray, but a UV protectant? What is that called, and where do you find it? >De >Note: perhaps, though it is not life threatening, people can say what they >do for those wet/damp weekends as well as the brisk weekends. I wear my ropa over my court dress, wear warm gloves, and stay under the pavilions as much as possible when it is raining hard. My husband is fond of his wool cloak with fur hood. At the winter faire (mountains in July), we stayed around the fire pits, with heavy wool cloaks, and shared hot mugs of drinks. That was a fun faire, despite the lack of customers that weekend. Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 19:06:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8AN6ngj010646 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 19:06:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AN574d029462 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 17:05:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AN54Bh057109; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 17:05:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AN51Bh057047 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 17:05:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.184] (p24.3c04.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.184]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i8AN3d630133 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 17:03:39 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <1116.24.4.69.40.1094852879.squirrel@24.4.69.40> References: <20040910160243.26676.qmail@web51408.mail.yahoo.com> <1116.24.4.69.40.1094852879.squirrel@24.4.69.40> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <604B94A0-037E-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen/ Dye removal Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 17:08:50 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I wouldnt use full strength bleach, but that's not necessary to remove color. I've been very successful using bleach for color removal and no damaging of the fibers by using a couple cups. However, there are other products, like the Rit product and something else, whose name escapes me now, that one can purchase from Dharma Trading and other dye companies. On Sep 10, 2004, at 3:47 PM, Diana Habra wrote: > >> You could use Rit color remover or plain chlorine bleach. >> >> Sylrog > > I wouldn't recommend the chlorine bleach. Bleach breaks down the > fabric > fibers and can weaken your fabric. > > I had personal experience with this recently when I tried to bleach out > the stains in my kitchen sink. I placed a cloth in the sink, poured > bleach on it and let it sit overnight. It was still intact when I put > it > in the wash machine but when I pulled the cloth out of the dryer, it > had > many large holes in it where the bleach weakened the fibers. > > If it were me, I would try overdying your linen. Yellow is the > component > to many other colors that could be nice...gold (add more yellow and a > touch of brown), green (add blue), brown (add blue & red), orange (add > red), etc. If you are not sure what color you might get, play with > some > watercolor paints. Mix other colors with a banana yellow and see what > you > get. It is actually quite fun to overdye as long as you aren't trying > to > achieve a specific color! > > Diana Habra > www.RenaissanceFabrics.net > "Everything for the Costumer" > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 19:10:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8ANAYJb010702 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 19:10:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AN9o4d029885 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 17:09:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AN9mBh059941; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 17:09:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8AN9lBh059918 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 17:09:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.184] (p24.3c04.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.184]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i8AN8S630385 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 17:08:28 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20040910174825.00b89640@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> References: <7FBB02B3-0361-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> <5.2.1.1.2.20040910174825.00b89640@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <0D8A9A7C-037F-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] What you all do with costumes Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 17:13:40 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sep 10, 2004, at 4:03 PM, Mari Stewart wrote: > > > And I'll take this moment to add a tiny note about one of my personal > 'teeth grinders' - The use of the word 'garb' in the SCA - Although > many will see it as a perfectly fine word - Its meaning, especially in > the SCA, is colored to mean something unreal, temporary, or > costume-like. I prefer to use the word clothing for the pieces I > make. Indeed, my efforts are not shoddy, temporary, make-do or to be > confused with theatrical clothing. > > And I guess I would have to take exception to your statement calling theatrical costuming shoddy, temporary or make-do. Maybe you're thinking of Halloween type costumes or some theatrical costumes that are really low quality, but the costumes I've made for high end theatres and universities are anything but. They are neither shoddy nor temporary, but are very well constructed and made to last a long time. We use high quality fabrics and trims and they are very well researched in terms of history when that is required. Sylrog _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 19:34:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8ANYijZ010975 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 19:34:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ANY14d001723 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 17:34:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ANWwBh073015; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 17:32:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8ANVsBh072412 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 17:31:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 9167 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2004 23:32:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO webmail.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com with SMTP; 10 Sep 2004 23:32:54 -0000 Received: from 24.4.69.40 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com); by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:31:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1194.24.4.69.40.1094859113.squirrel@24.4.69.40> In-Reply-To: References: <014501c49781$ca33bc20$a75c14d0@computername> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:31:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen/ Dye removal From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a X-Mailer: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And of course don't get bleach > anywhere near an animal product such as wool or silk. I have a little cup > of bleach on the counter right now, busily dissolving the wool in a swatch > so I can see whether it's 100% or a blend. Hey Robin, Could you tell me a little bit more about how that works? I have been trying to do some fiber verification and that sounds like a more definitive way to do it (as compared to burn testing). With the burn testing, the sizing that they put on the fabric can burn funny and make you think you have some sythetic content when you really don't. Diana Diana Habra www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 19:35:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8ANZo03010984 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 19:35:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ANZE4d001835 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 17:35:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ANYDBh073799; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 17:34:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from incoming.SIGENETICS.com ([209.172.110.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ANX0Bh072958 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 17:33:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sbuchler@silicongenetics.com) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:32:52 -0700 Message-ID: <0D3431E0FD777844A4ED9507E4D698D90D2764@incoming.sigenetics.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 735 Thread-Index: AcSXjCrOylhnWvTYQh+oWhQsKMH4VgAAQUtQ From: "Sunny Buchler" To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i8ANX0Bh072958 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: What you all do with costumes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think I've done a bit of all the costume-wearing venues that have been mentioned. Two of the ones I'm vaguely involved in haven't been mentioned yet: I'm currently looking at getting involved in the Sci-Fi convention masquerades, and around here (Silicon Valley) there are a lot of Victorian/regency dance groups that throw balls (Gaskells, Peers, Regency Dance Society). There are also a number of more modern swing and lindy hop groups that admire early 20th century costuming that I've been to a couple times. -sunny _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 20:22:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8B0M3Iw011194 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 20:22:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8B0H2AL004913 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 18:21:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ANplBh083460; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 17:51:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ANpjBh083408 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 17:51:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA07553 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 18:58:39 -0500 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 18:58:38 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <1194.24.4.69.40.1094859113.squirrel@24.4.69.40> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Bleach test, plus some words on adulturated wool X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I wrote: > > I have a little cup of bleach on the counter right now, busily > > dissolving the wool in a swatch > > so I can see whether it's 100% or a blend. Diana asked: > Could you tell me a little bit more about how that works? I have been > trying to do some fiber verification and that sounds like a more > definitive way to do it (as compared to burn testing). With the burn > testing, the sizing that they put on the fabric can burn funny and > make you think you have some sythetic content when you really don't. Reposting yet again, by popular demand ;-) This question comes up about once a year. See bottom for some extra info on the current crop of wools. ----- On Wed, 11 Dec 2002, Bella wrote: > Can someone please point me in the direction of > instructions/directions on how to perform the "bleach test"? Sounds > fascinating and definitely something I'd love to learn. :) Very easy. I learned it on this list, I think. I knocked the socks off my manager at the shop, because we had no way before this to differentiate a pure wool from a wool-and-natural-fiber blend. Wool and silk dissolve in bleach. Cotton, rayon, and linen do not. Do a burn test first to identify synthetics (hard bead or plastic residue). If you have a natural fiber, narrow it down by doing the following. Cut a small swatch -- half an inch square, or larger if you've got multiple types of threads (e.g. a stripe or plaid) so you can get samples of all the threads in one swatch. Put a little bleach (maybe 1/2 inch) in a small jar (like a baby food jar) or a glass/pyrex custard cup, and add the swatch. I use a toothpick or plastic spoon to poke the swatch down so it's wet through. Leave it for a few hours or overnight. Wool will disappear completely -- the bleach will look perfectly clear. Silk will disappear but usually leave a bit of residue. (Perhaps that's the seracin?) Cotton, linen, and rayon will remain intact, though may lose their color. A blend will dissolve in parts. For instance, in a wool/rayon blend where each thread is made of multiple fibers, the wool fibers will dissolve and you'll end up with a tangled mess of rayon fibers. If you have a fabric where whole threads of wool or silk are interwoven with whole threads of a non-animal fiber, such as some plaids or checks, you can get a nice grid pattern remaining, with empty spots in the interlacing where the animal fiber used to be. If one fiber is warp and one is weft, you'll end up with a row of the non-animal fibers lined up neatly in the bottom of the cup. It's fun to watch this happening. Wool will fizz slightly, like when you put peroxide on a cut. Check on it every little while and poke it with the toothpick to break up the fibers if necessary; it can take a while for the bleach to penetrate a thick fabric. ----- Now, let me add a note: There seems to be a huge influx of stretch wool fabrics these days. We just got in a load of wools at the shop, and nearly every one was adulturated with lycra. Even more disturbing, the manufacturers still often label these as 100% wool! A burn test may not reveal the presence of a tiny bit of lycra -- the burning-rubber smell may be overpowered by the burning-wool smell. In a bleach test, the lycra appears as tiny flecks of white fibers, as fine as dust. That is, the fibers break into fragments, but don't disappear completely like the wool does. (I think over time even the lycra may dissolve, so don't let it sit for days and then check.) Testing swatches has saved me from some dreadful errors! Since many wool weaves have some natural stretch to them, sometimes the "stretch" capability of the wool-lycra blend is not very obvious till after you wash the fabric ... or when you wear it. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 20:22:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8B0MYew011198 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 20:22:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8B0H2AV004913 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 18:22:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ANePBh077811; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 17:40:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ANdIBh076966 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 17:39:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA07465 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 18:46:14 -0500 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 18:46:14 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] What you all do with costumes In-Reply-To: <0D8A9A7C-037F-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 10 Sep 2004, Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > > And I'll take this moment to add a tiny note about one of my personal > > 'teeth grinders' - The use of the word 'garb' in the SCA - Although > > many will see it as a perfectly fine word - Its meaning, especially in > > the SCA, is colored to mean something unreal, temporary, or > > costume-like. I prefer to use the word clothing for the pieces I > > make. Indeed, my efforts are not shoddy, temporary, make-do or to be > > confused with theatrical clothing. > > > And I guess I would have to take exception to your statement calling > theatrical costuming shoddy, temporary or make-do. Maybe you're > thinking of Halloween type costumes or some theatrical costumes that > are really low quality, but the costumes I've made for high end > theatres and universities are anything but. They are neither shoddy > nor temporary, but are very well constructed and made to last a long > time. We use high quality fabrics and trims and they are very well > researched in terms of history when that is required. Then you are to be commended. FWIW, there is a significant difference in the nature of much theatrical costume and much re-enactment costume, but it doesn't have to do with "good" or "bad" quality. (There's good and bad quality in all venues!) Theater clothing must answer to a specific set of needs. For instance: Does the actor need to manage a costume change in X minutes between scenes? If so, you may make the conscious decision to add a hidden zipper opening rather than use lacing or pins as a functional element. Will the actors be standing under hot lights for two hours? If so, you may choose to fake the appearance of an extra layer. Will the actor be spattered with fake blood, or spilled wine, in Act II? If so, that may affect your choice of materials. Perhaps most important: Does the director want to use some element of the costume (color, fit, embellishment) to send a visual message about the character that a modern audience will interpret in a certain way, even though it doesn't mesh with what was actually done in the period? And so on. Any of these conditions may lead to a conscious choice to depart from what would be historically authentic; it doesn't mean the work is shoddy or badly researched. Re-enactors face similar decisions: Does it need to be packable? washable? comfortable in the non-historic weather conditions in which I'll be wearing it? Does this cut flatter my figure? work with my physical disability? Do I want to add a non-historic badge or emblem that's meaningful in my group? Has my group established rules for color or style for internal identification purposes? Again: Conscious decisions, for purposes related to the venue, that may involve departing from the authentic method. Two factors that are common to both groups: Time! and Money! It seems there's never enough of either. The shortcuts you choose, though, will vary by your priorities, which depend on your purpose. So: A re-enactor may look at a theatrical costume and say -- "Oh, that decoration is faked! And there's a zipper in the back!" which might be unforgivable offenses in a re-enactor venue, but might be completely unobservable to the stage audience. A theater person might look at a re-enactor costume and say, "That style doesn't work with that body shape! And what's all that stuff hanging from the belt!" And -- sorry -- an academic will look at either and say, "Well, it's OK for fun stuff, like stage or hobby, but I'd hate to see it in a museum as an example of what people actually wore." It's true that for some theatrical costumes, and some re-enactment costumes, the creator will conform to the authentic method all the way down the line. Given the constraints of the purposes for which those clothes will be worn, though, that's going to be pretty rare. A re-enactment costumer might make a really stellar everything-exact reproduction for competitions and very occasional special-event wear, but probably not find it workable for summer outdoor events, or kitchen work, or other things that are involved in the re-enactment experience. A theater costumer may once in a blue moon get the chance to work completely authentically, but from what I know of show schedules, budgets, and directors' whims, that also is going to be pretty wear. Again, not a question of good or bad costuming, though I think most of us have seen both good and bad work in each of these scenarios. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 20:22:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8B0MaQ6011201 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 20:22:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8B0H2AN004913 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 18:22:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ANjcBh080586; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 17:45:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ANjaBh080522 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 17:45:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.4.) id 6.2b.613a5c0f (2612) for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 19:45:27 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <2b.613a5c0f.2e739696@aol.com> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 19:45:26 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] What you all do with costumes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/10/2004 6:03:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, ms154@cornell.edu writes: > Indeed, my efforts are not shoddy, temporary, make-do or to be > confused with theatrical clothing. > My theatrical clothing is never shoddy. ;-) But I know what you mean. It's what I call the "community theatre attitude". I once had a tech director sigh and tell me "Let's not spend so much time fitting things. It doesn't really have to fit perfectly." I replied, "Yeah. And let's not light the whole stage, just enough to sorta see; and the actors don't have to speak Shakespeare's lines exactly, just as long as they say something like it; and the scenery doesn't need to be completely painted it could just....." "Ok! Ok! I get it!" He said walking away. I followed after telling him, "I hope you're not gonna do the half ass job you expect me to do!" I got the finger. But he didn't bother me again. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 20:22:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8B0Mai7011202 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 20:22:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8B0H2AP004913 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 18:22:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ANhvBh079726; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 17:43:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ANhrBi079700 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 17:43:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i8ANg1TA012313 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 19:42:01 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 19:42:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <41423C39.10303@thibault.org> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 19:43:53 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen/ Dye removal References: <014501c49781$ca33bc20$a75c14d0@computername> <1194.24.4.69.40.1094859113.squirrel@24.4.69.40> In-Reply-To: <1194.24.4.69.40.1094859113.squirrel@24.4.69.40> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dye remover (not bleach) can get you some interesting effects. I used it on a piece of cotton, er, don't know the technical term, but the stores would call it tapestry upholstery fabric. Fabric was originally army green and yellow; the dye remover made it all an antique gold. I'm very pleased with it. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Register to vote! Don't let that other guy win! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 20:22:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8B0McTV011207 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 20:22:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8B0H2AT004913 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 18:22:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ANe6Bh077572; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 17:40:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from incoming.SIGENETICS.com ([209.172.110.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ANcTBh076477 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 17:38:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sbuchler@silicongenetics.com) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Member/Bookshelf Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:38:23 -0700 Message-ID: <0D3431E0FD777844A4ED9507E4D698D90D2763@incoming.sigenetics.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 730 Thread-Index: AcSXFtHusSPkmkZgQ26dNTW0mNfwwgAbpYNQ From: "Sunny Buchler" To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i8ANcTBh076477 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I highly recommend _Who Wore What?: Women's Wear 1861-1865_ by Juanita Leisch -- it's slightly outside your period, but I found it amazingly helpful. And a great place to start thinking about all the details involved -- the type of pleating used, the lace at neck and cuffs, and other sort of easy-to-overlook details. For both period's I find the "real clothing" pages on the _demode_ website highly useful -- however it seems to be down today. :-( The link I usually use is: http://demode.tweedlebop.com/realvict.html Other books that cover a much broader swath of Victorian fashion that I've found useful are below: _American Victorian Costume in Early Photographs_ by Priscilla Harris Dalrymple (photos only, but usefully organized.) _Victorian Costume for Ladies_ by Linda Setnik (lots of photos) _Victorian and Edwardian Fashions for Women 1840 to 1919 (A Schiffer Book for Collectors With Value Guide)_ (lots of photos of real dresses. Gotta ignore the make-up and modern stances though. There's not much there for the 1840 period...) _English Women's Clothing in the Nineteenth-Century _ C. Willet Cunnington (few pictures of actual garments but useful for what colors/trims/fabrics were fashionable for a given year. The hats and hairstyles are a bonus that most books don't cover.) _Costume in Detail : Women's Dress 1730-1930_ by Nancy Bradford (this is all sketches of exiting garments -- not as nice as photos, but much more affordable, and it has quite a few useful construction notes.) _Vintage Hats & Bonnets 1770-1970_ Susan Langley (this only has pictures of hats, but I had a lot of trouble getting enough pictures of real hats in my other sources to feel like I had a handle on the styles as they were really worn - as opposed to the fashion plates.) _Calico Chronicle : Texas Women and Their Fashions 1830-1910_ (this will cover your time period very briefly, with only a few pictures -- but it's a fascinating read, if you're interested in day-to-day american dress.) _Fabric of Society : A Century of People and Their Clothes, 1770-1870_ by Jane Tozer (this is out-of-print, it has a lot of nice close-ups of the textiles. It covers a much broader scope then you're probably looking for...) _Modes and Manners of the Nineteenth Century_ by Max von Bohen, translated by Oscar Friske (out of print and very expensive, unfortunately -- possibly the best source for prints and fashion-related artwork though.) I'm very fond of museum catalogues 2 that I know cover your periods are: _From Queen to Empress : Victorian Dress, 1837-1877 _ _L'album du musée de la mode & du textile_ (it's in French but the pictures are great!) unfortunately, I'm at work, and my books are at home, so I can't double check any of the other catalogues I have to see if they have useful pictures for your period. Hope this helps! -sunny _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 20:22:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8B0MfIr011210 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 20:22:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8B0H2AR004913 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 18:22:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ANflBh078656; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 17:41:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ANfiBi078627 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 17:41:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i8ANdqTA012282 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 19:39:52 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 19:39:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <41423BB7.8030509@thibault.org> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 19:41:43 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] What you all do with costumes References: <7FBB02B3-0361-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> <5.2.1.1.2.20040910174825.00b89640@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20040910174825.00b89640@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mari Stewart wrote: > And I'll take this moment to add a tiny note about one of my personal > 'teeth grinders' - The use of the word 'garb' in the SCA - Although > many will see it as a perfectly fine word - Its meaning, especially in > the SCA, is colored to mean something unreal, temporary, or > costume-like. Gosh, must be a regional difference; I've never seen this implied with the word "garb." It's entirely free of overtones in the places in the SCA I've played. cv (21 years and counting) -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Silmarillion: The Musical -- The very secret diaries _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 21:02:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8B12Rlc011343 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 21:02:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8B11n4d008017 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 19:01:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8B11kBh017532; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 19:01:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8B11hBh017508 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 19:01:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.200] (p40.3c04.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.200]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i8B10N604402 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 19:00:23 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] What you all do with costumes Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 19:05:35 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I agree with all you say. I just don't like to see theatrical costuming being denigrated just because it is such. I'm sure you all feel that way about your own particular speciality, though. Sylrog On Sep 10, 2004, at 5:46 PM, Robin Netherton wrote: > > FWIW, there is a significant difference in the nature of much > theatrical > costume and much re-enactment costume, but it doesn't have to do with > "good" or "bad" quality. (There's good and bad quality in all venues!) > Theater clothing must answer to a specific set of needs. For instance: > Does the actor need to manage a costume change in X minutes between > scenes? If so, you may make the conscious decision to add a hidden > zipper > opening rather than use lacing or pins as a functional element. Will > the > actors be standing under hot lights for two hours? If so, you may > choose > to fake the appearance of an extra layer. Will the actor be spattered > with > fake blood, or spilled wine, in Act II? If so, that may affect your > choice > of materials. Perhaps most important: Does the director want to use > some > element of the costume (color, fit, embellishment) to send a visual > message about the character that a modern audience will interpret in a > certain way, even though it doesn't mesh with what was actually done in > the period? And so on. Any of these conditions may lead to a conscious > choice to depart from what would be historically authentic; it doesn't > mean the work is shoddy or badly researched. > > Re-enactors face similar decisions: Does it need to be packable? > washable? > comfortable in the non-historic weather conditions in which I'll be > wearing it? Does this cut flatter my figure? work with my physical > disability? Do I want to add a non-historic badge or emblem that's > meaningful in my group? Has my group established rules for color or > style > for internal identification purposes? Again: Conscious decisions, for > purposes related to the venue, that may involve departing from the > authentic method. > > Two factors that are common to both groups: Time! and Money! It seems > there's never enough of either. The shortcuts you choose, though, will > vary by your priorities, which depend on your purpose. > > So: A re-enactor may look at a theatrical costume and say -- "Oh, that > decoration is faked! And there's a zipper in the back!" which might be > unforgivable offenses in a re-enactor venue, but might be completely > unobservable to the stage audience. A theater person might look at a > re-enactor costume and say, "That style doesn't work with that body > shape! > And what's all that stuff hanging from the belt!" And -- sorry -- an > academic will look at either and say, "Well, it's OK for fun stuff, > like > stage or hobby, but I'd hate to see it in a museum as an example of > what > people actually wore." > > It's true that for some theatrical costumes, and some re-enactment > costumes, the creator will conform to the authentic method all the way > down the line. Given the constraints of the purposes for which those > clothes will be worn, though, that's going to be pretty rare. A > re-enactment costumer might make a really stellar everything-exact > reproduction for competitions and very occasional special-event wear, > but > probably not find it workable for summer outdoor events, or kitchen > work, > or other things that are involved in the re-enactment experience. A > theater costumer may once in a blue moon get the chance to work > completely > authentically, but from what I know of show schedules, budgets, and > directors' whims, that also is going to be pretty wear. > > Again, not a question of good or bad costuming, though I think most of > us > have seen both good and bad work in each of these scenarios. > > --Robin > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 21:16:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8B1GmJ6011414 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 21:16:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8B1GB4d009546 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 19:16:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8B1G9Bh024569; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 19:16:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web81301.mail.yahoo.com (web81301.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.37.76]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8B1G7Bh024510 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 19:16:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net) Message-ID: <20040911011602.29215.qmail@web81301.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.118.230.145] by web81301.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 18:16:02 PDT Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 18:16:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Angela Lazear Subject: Re: [h-cost] What you all do with costumes To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: FWIW, there is a significant difference in the nature of much theatrical costume and much re-enactment costume, but it doesn't have to do with "good" or "bad" quality. (big snip) Any of these conditions may lead to a conscious choice to depart from what would be historically authentic; it doesn't mean the work is shoddy or badly researched. Robin's wonderful treatise pretty much made my points for me... we in theater will make many more decisions based on a visual statement first, and period authenticity later. Both are important, and legitimate forms of expression in this medium, which is more than just about showing people what folks wore in X time period. So, I'll just chime in to state that I'm still in theatrical costuming, just finished designing Pippin, which one would think is Charlemagne's Europe, but if you saw the show it's a bit more like neon Charlemagne's Europe (fabric choices ala Teddy) on acid... Hey, at least you can't call me boring. For cool visuals, there is a video (in which you can sort of see the costumes) at www.aclo.com. I really had a fun time with this one. Cheers, angela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 22:15:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8B2Fv9d011642 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 22:15:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8B2FF4d013345 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 20:15:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8B2F4Bh051133; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 20:15:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net (cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.226]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8B2F2Bh051116 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 20:15:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from heather.jones@earthlink.net) Received: from h-68-164-171-89.snfccasy.dynamic.covad.net ([68.164.171.89] helo=[10.0.1.2]) by cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1C5xPq-0000Jb-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 19:15:02 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <22606E84-0339-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> References: <22606E84-0339-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 18:55:10 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Surviving Faire & re-enactments in Court Costume, Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 8:53 AM -0600 9/10/04, Sylvia Rognstad wrote: >One thing I don't understand about the Renn Faire weather issue is >why they aren't held in the winer months, especially in states like >California where the weather is pleasant year-around. Or they could >be situated indoors like Dickens faires or a combo of >indoors-outdoors. Has anyone ever considered one of those options? While you can find pleasant weather year-round in California (at least the valley and coastal parts), you can't _guarantee_ pleasant weather on a particular set of contiguous weekends during some parts of the year. If you plan your Renn Faire for six consecutive weekends any time from approximately May through October, then you can have a high level of confidence that all the weekends will be fair. If you plan it for six consecutive weekends any time between November to April, you can be almost guaranteed that one or more of them will be pouring rain. Heather -- **** Heather Rose Jones heather.jones@earthlink.net **** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 22:52:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8B2qhQ1011737 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 22:52:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8B2ec4d014866 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 20:40:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8B2eaBh062060; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 20:40:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8B2eWBh061939 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 20:40:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.147.97]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i8B2dblx005507 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 12:40:12 +1000 Message-ID: <011f01c497a8$938e6860$6193d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 12:09:21 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Surviving the heat (was Re: current and future work?) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sylvia Rognstad" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 5:10 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] current and future work? > Since Renn faires are usually in the heat of the summer, how does one > stand to spend much time walking around in court (thanks for the proper > term) dress? My personal solution is to move to Italy (or more specifically early 16th century Venetian) for the summer. But I'm in the SCA you can wear anything between 600 & 1600 from anywhere in (or in contact with) Western Europe. My next set of court garb will be designed for summer though (as I'm thinking of entering it into a 12th night comp, which is the middle of Summer here) and it will be Tudor (based on this portrait http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Elizabeth5.jpg). I'll be cheating on the number of layers (no kirtle, no petticoat under the farthingale) and using natural fibres where possible (The brocade I'm using is a synthetic blend because it was cheap and the comp theme is an outfit under $50 but it will be lined with cotton) if it gets really hot I can remove my under sleeves so my Chemise sleeves are showing as I've got documentation for that look. Bare legs under your farthingale are useful for keeping cool and a bare décolletage is another area that lets your body release heat (just remember to put on lots of sunscreen). Other people find that covering everything in one or two light layers works best (working on the middle eastern principle of covering up) but it depends on whether you've got dry heat or humid heat in your area, in humid conditions clothing will stick to you, in a dry heat the shade provided by your clothing can help a lot especially if you can get a breeze. Fans are very useful accessories for Summer, drinking lots of water, hats and sunscreen as sunburn makes you feel hotter than you really are. Unfortunately sunhats were not fashionable Elizabethan wear but personally I'd compromise on that rather than getting burnt or sunstroke. Pinning your hair up off your neck, if it's a one day event washing your hair in the morning at home and then pinning it up, the bun itself will take a long time to dry (as the air can't get to it) and the area underneath the bun will actually be cooler than the rest of your head. If you think it has dried out you can either wet the ponytail part again and pin it back up or just untwist it and twist it again in the opposite direction so the bit that was in the middle of the twist is now on the outside (i.e. against your head). Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole in OR in Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra, Australia ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 23:06:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8B368DY011802 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 23:06:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8B32b4d016209 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 21:02:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8B32ZBh071563; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 21:02:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8B32WBh071478 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 21:02:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m2.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABAWE4XFADF7RGA for (sender ); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 20:01:57 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCvUXbWC2jkRaPzGpBBgH+9J1mFjZHk6Z6Q== Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id J68D3Z2J; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 20:01:40 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 21:55:28 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Surviving Faire & re-enactments in Court Costume, Message-ID: <20040910.215529.-116874069.2.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-5,14-42 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-ContentStamp: 16:8:2358303813 X-MAIL-INFO: 2f4d290de9f5244d91e98d64e510c029d46459c0ed7091c0b08de0617d6149fd65a9d061244024f92d317965352dd1d0d96540d160ed99d189211d3081304585347d3930b5a1b5411174ad349d11b9390034a1b910602981a1a5806180443de1a5e0e94420816581ad9194e5a5e064c9ed402140c4307dc4301955301955c959a951d0f12434242d546d653524d45da1b9f5b905094d0509443d09447164cda595902095919190e5e570e59d15c13444498d59f1f9c9f1a9a9f9757531 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Last year (03) at Bristol we had significant rain on each of 9 contiguous weekends in July and August, one day at least and often both days. That's a run like I have never seen in all my years (27) of historic re-enactment. Of course I'd never seen a run of heat like the summer of '95 until it happened either. ;-) I can understand that some of these stories make wearing Elizabethans at a RenFaire sound like torture.....and under certain circumstances they can be, but like your father or grandfather telling you about walking to school 10 miles in blinding snowstorms, uphill both ways, we tend to dwell on the most 'challenging' aspects and neglect to expound upon the nicer bits. The sweat and tears are worth it when you get the admiration of your peers and the audience, and you can walk thru your own personal make-believe world knowing that you are dressed in the most perfect gown you can make. Karen On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 18:55:10 -0700 Heather Rose Jones > While you can find pleasant weather year-round in California (at > least the valley and coastal parts), you can't _guarantee_ pleasant > weather on a particular set of contiguous weekends during some parts > of the year. If you plan your Renn Faire for six consecutive > weekends any time from approximately May through October, then you > can have a high level of confidence that all the weekends will be > fair. If you plan it for six consecutive weekends any time between > November to April, you can be almost guaranteed that one or more of > them will be pouring rain. > > Heather > -- > **** > Heather Rose Jones > heather.jones@earthlink.net > **** > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ________________________________________________________________ Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 23:25:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8B3Pgn3011910 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 23:25:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8B3Ot4d017466 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 21:24:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8B3OqBh081296; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 21:24:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8B3OnBi081281 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 21:24:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i8B3T32v025299 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 23:29:03 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] What you all do with costumes Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 23:34:48 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <7FBB02B3-0361-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> In-Reply-To: <7FBB02B3-0361-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200409102334.48544.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 10 September 2004 3:42 pm, Sylvia Rognstad wrote: [snip] >I guess I'm both curious about the composition of > this group as well as wondering what other possibilities for > money-making with costumes there are. If not involved in the SCA or > with Renn Faires, what do you do? Are you in reenactment groups or > role-playing groups? Are you into museum work or clothing restoration > and preservation? Are you, like me, in theatre? I'm really very > curious. When I first got started in theatre decades ago, that was > about the only venue available for costumers. Now the costuming world > has expanded so much. Oh, God. I doubt I'll ever have the time to spare to become good enough to sell my sewing! I make costumes for myself and my husband for live action role playing games, and I wear them at science fiction conventions (where you can wear almost anything so long as it doesn't annoy the hotel enough to cause them to throw you out). I would love to do reenactment but have yet to find the time to put in the kind of work and study to achieve what I would consider a suitable level of authenticity. In short, I make costumes in order to learn more about historic costume, and I study historic costumes to learn about interesting clothing to make and eventually wear. For me, it's a hobby, and pure fun. -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 23:30:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8B3Uqv6011930 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 23:30:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8B3Tv4d017752 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 21:29:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8B3TuBh083722; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 21:29:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8B3TrBh083683 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 21:29:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.165] (pm5-165.eos.net [205.133.149.165]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i8B3TlvK028302 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 23:29:47 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 23:26:09 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200409102305.i8AN5mBi057502@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Barbie pink linen X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO on 9/10/04 7:05 PM, h-costume-request@indra.com at h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: > Remember the Barbie Pink linen quite a few of us picked up at JoAnne's a > couple of years ago? I know Robin was using her for her demo fittings - at > least, she was when she did one after her Boston lecture. There was quite a > discussion of How To Remove the Hot Pink Color. > > What WAS the consensus on how to change that color? I found I still have > some. Rowena Make something for a little girl. That's what I did with mine, and it is still as pink as ever. To her delight, of course. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 10 23:36:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8B3apVf011960 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 23:36:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8B3aD4d018238 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 21:36:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8B3aABh086646; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 21:36:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8B3a9Bh086638 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 21:36:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.165] (pm5-165.eos.net [205.133.149.165]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i8B3a5vK029890 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 23:36:05 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 23:32:27 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200409110216.i8B2GZBi051731@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: the word garb X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO on 9/10/04 10:16 PM, h-costume-request@indra.com at h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: >> And I'll take this moment to add a tiny note about one of my personal >> 'teeth grinders' - The use of the word 'garb' in the SCA - Although >> many will see it as a perfectly fine word - Its meaning, especially in >> the SCA, is colored to mean something unreal, temporary, or >> costume-like. I prefer to use the word clothing for the pieces I >> make. Indeed, my efforts are not shoddy, temporary, make-do or to be >> confused with theatrical clothing. >> In my area of the SCA, "garb" doesn't imply anything temporary, although it may mean "costumey" (depending on the skill of the maker). The way it was explained to me many years ago is that it was a word chosen in place of the word "costume," because people wanted a word that meant real clothes but that implied "non-modern." I think that has remained true in general, although I have seen many people with gorgeous medieval clothes refer to them as costumes, and people with the most costume stuff swear that they don't think of it as a costume, but as their real clothes. Oh well. But I suppose the implications of the word vary over time, and across continents! Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 11 00:58:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8B4w3wZ012380 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 00:58:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8B4vN4d023145 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Sep 2004 22:57:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8B4vKBh023371; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 22:57:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav10.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.114]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8B4vIBh023332 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 22:57:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 10 Sep 2004 21:57:13 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by bay9-dav10.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 04:57:13 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Barbie pink linen Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 00:57:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Sep 2004 04:57:13.0382 (UTC) FILETIME=[CD64A460:01C497BB] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Remember the Barbie Pink linen quite a few of us picked up at JoAnne's a > > couple of years ago? I know Robin was using her for her demo fittings - at > > least, she was when she did one after her Boston lecture. There was quite a > > discussion of How To Remove the Hot Pink Color. > > > > What WAS the consensus on how to change that color? I found I still have > > some. Rowena I had something similar I got at Fabricville up here in Montreal. I've overdyed successfully with red (it gave a nice cherry red), and when I swooshed some of it in black it came out a wonderful purple colour. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 11 02:27:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8B6R7OX016254 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 02:27:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8B6QZ4d027646 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Sep 2004 00:26:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8B6PqBh061587; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 00:25:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pengo.systems.pipex.net (pengo.systems.pipex.net [62.241.160.193]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8B6PoBh061542 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 00:25:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from linda.walton@dsl.pipex.com) Received: from bella (81-86-114-151.dsl.pipex.com [81.86.114.151]) by pengo.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with SMTP id D75FF4C0022B for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 07:25:45 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <000701c497c8$1422e0e0$97725651@bella> From: "Linda Walton" To: Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 07:25:05 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Antique Textile Fair X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO in Manchester (U.K.) next March More details here:- http://www.textilesociety.org.uk/pages/fair.htm _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 11 02:51:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8B6pRm7018840 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 02:51:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8B6oh4d028914 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Sep 2004 00:50:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8B6ofBh073141; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 00:50:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grunt9.ihug.co.nz (grunt9.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.51]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8B6ocBh073068 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 00:50:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from p727-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.194.219] by grunt9.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1C61iJ-0002qK-00; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 18:50:24 +1200 Message-ID: <00b101c497cb$938e7a80$dbc2adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <7FBB02B3-0361-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net><5.2.1.1.2.20040910174825.00b89640@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> <0D8A9A7C-037F-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Subject: Garb, costume et al was Re: [h-cost] What you all do with costumes Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 18:50:06 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > And I'll take this moment to add a tiny note about one of my personal > > 'teeth grinders' - The use of the word 'garb' in the SCA - Although > > many will see it as a perfectly fine word - Its meaning, especially in > > the SCA, is colored to mean something unreal, temporary, or > > costume-like. I prefer to use the word clothing for the pieces I > > make. Indeed, my efforts are not shoddy, temporary, make-do or to be > > confused with theatrical clothing. I suppose that's one interpretation.. but everywhere I've seen it used simply means "the clothes I wear while at an SCA event." What the workmanship level is of the person using the word is irrelevant. I happily use the word costume (lit. clothing for a specific place and time) and garb to describe the pieces I make and wear while not doing usual everyday activities. I really hate the snobbery in the costuming world for various words. They are nouns and verbs (for the making of the items.) It's the adjectives and adverbs that give them meaning. Calling something costume like gives no real indication of the quality. It's just saying the item belongs somewhere not in the everyday world. Using the word "cheap" or "shoddy" does idicat your appreciation of the quality. As does "well researched" or "well constructed." Let's remember our grammar folks;) *Scampers of before anyone pokes holes in how she structured her sentances....* Yes I am aware that "costume like" does desrcibe something as having the qualities of a costume.. but that's like saying an apple is apple-like. I want to now if it's a granny smith, or a fuji, or braeburn, and if it's ripe, juicy, sweet or too sour. michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 11 03:41:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8B7fdPt024391 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 03:41:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8B7f14d001279 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Sep 2004 01:41:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8B7evBh095340; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 01:40:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web53107.mail.yahoo.com (web53107.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.210]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8B7eqBh095256 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 01:40:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from smnco37@yahoo.co.uk) Message-ID: <20040911074045.29695.qmail@web53107.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [82.112.141.181] by web53107.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:40:45 BST Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:40:45 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?julian=20wilson?= To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <00b101c497cb$938e7a80$dbc2adcb@michaela> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Garb, costume et al X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear All, If I might add our Companie's thinking to this thread? When we began to appear at Gorey Castle as a newly-re-constituted Group last year, the local Museum Service managers were rather tending to "discount" us as a bunch of enthusiastic amateurs who liked dressing-up in colourful clothes. Rightly or wrongly, we took this as a form of "academic snobbery"; and since then we seem to have gained their academic respect for the proven research which precedes every new bit of kit we produce. At the time of that rather "shaky" new beginning, - to try and make a semantic distinction for our 'mundane' listeners, between "theatre" and "pantomime" costumes - and the replica clothes our Companie's knowledgable Mistress Of The Robes was passing as "fit for our re-enactment wear", - our "core-group" all agreed to refer to our medieval clothing as "garb" - nice short word, not in common 'mundane' use. We are given a wide choice of "garb & equipment fashions" by the recorded fact that the Anglo-Norman Isles tended to follow the fashions of the Burgundian, and Breton Courts, - the Islands' closest Trading Neighbours. Anyway, that's why our Companie uses "garb" as a collective noun for our replica late-medieval clothing. Obviously, other readers on this List will have other reasons for the descriptive noun they prefer to use. Julian, in "olde" Jersey. michaela wrote: > > And I'll take this moment to add a tiny note about one of my personal > > 'teeth grinders' - The use of the word 'garb' in the SCA - Although > > many will see it as a perfectly fine word - Its meaning, especially in > > the SCA, is colored to mean something unreal, temporary, or > > costume-like. I prefer to use the word clothing for the pieces I > > make. Indeed, my efforts are not shoddy, temporary, make-do or to be > > confused with theatrical clothing. I suppose that's one interpretation.. but everywhere I've seen it used simply means "the clothes I wear while at an SCA event." What the workmanship level is of the person using the word is irrelevant. I happily use the word costume (lit. clothing for a specific place and time) and garb to describe the pieces I make and wear while not doing usual everyday activities. I really hate the snobbery in the costuming world for various words. They are nouns and verbs (for the making of the items.) It's the adjectives and adverbs that give them meaning. Calling something costume like gives no real indication of the quality. It's just saying the item belongs somewhere not in the everyday world. Using the word "cheap" or "shoddy" does idicat your appreciation of the quality. As does "well researched" or "well constructed." Let's remember our grammar folks;) *Scampers of before anyone pokes holes in how she structured her sentances....* Yes I am aware that "costume like" does desrcibe something as having the qualities of a costume.. but that's like saying an apple is apple-like. I want to now if it's a granny smith, or a fuji, or braeburn, and if it's ripe, juicy, sweet or too sour. michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 11 03:56:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8B7ucth026202 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 03:56:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8B7tw4d001924 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Sep 2004 01:55:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8B7tvBh001938; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 01:55:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8B7ttBh001835 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 01:55:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fe1.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.225]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 105FD47FE1C for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 09:55:42 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000d01c497d4$caec4800$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 09:56:04 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] what you all do with costumes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I studyed on a design school in 4 years. This was back in 1976-1980. I specialised in costume. Then i waited to get some orders, but even though our school had made a folder with the students works, nobody called or wrote to me. Then i tryed some theaters, but it seemed impossible, they all wanted seamstresses. Then i almost gave up and began my earning in many different jobs. It wasnt until 1995 or something like that, that i started again. Knowing some hairdressers who made shows with historical hairstyles. I didnt earn a penny of it, but i made costumes for them. Then i got a computer and acces to the net and i got a homepage. I started to put up pictures of my costumes and when i joined this group and a group called sewinghistoric, i suddently had people to look at my work. And a little by little i got orders from reenactors. So far i have made costumes for people in Swizzerland, England, Germany, Norway, America and Sweden. But still it is nothing i earn much with, i have a full time job to take care of besides my costuming. It is however lovely, i like it very much and i can choose wich things i like to do and wich i dont. But it is also because i make embroidery on my costumes and therefore it takes a lot of time to have them finished. Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 11 03:58:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8B7we6u026451 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 03:58:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8B7w34d001980 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Sep 2004 01:58:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8B7w3Bh002768; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 01:58:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8B7w1Bh002757 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 01:58:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 029962B4E6 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 02:58:01 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p262.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.8]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id E5DA4D3F0 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 02:57:59 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: Court Garb in hot weather[ bit long] Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 02:58:15 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20040910152229.02517c98@64.87.54.245> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -----Original Message----- Ok, I have used Scotchgard in a spray, but a UV protectant? What is that called, and where do you find it? Kimiko ~~~ The sprays I have found are at Jo Ann's next to or near the Scotch guard. I use it on things that I know will be in the sun a lot. Something I learned with tents(modern), UV spray extends the life of the color of your outdoor fabric and if you need to seal the tent with scotch guard spray on the inside because the scotch guard will assist the sun in breakdown the fibers of the fabric if you spray it on the outside. De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 11 06:38:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8BAchil005880 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 06:38:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BAc44d016015 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Sep 2004 04:38:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BAbuBh072056; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 04:37:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BAbrBh072001 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 04:37:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-164.cvip.net [129.8.205.164]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97D355D84C for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 03:37:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040911030040.00b190c0@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 03:05:49 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb, costume et al In-Reply-To: <20040911074045.29695.qmail@web53107.mail.yahoo.com> References: <00b101c497cb$938e7a80$dbc2adcb@michaela> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:40 AM 9/11/2004 +0100, you wrote: >Julian, >in "olde" Jersey. Hi Julian, I am a Californian who hasn't traveled much, and while I know "New" Jersey is the ... well, newer American state back east near "New" York, where exactly is "old" Jersey? >the proven research which precedes every new bit of kit we produce. And I kinda like your term of "kit" that you gave in describing "garb". It also isn't a term I am familiar with. Now that I understand your use of garb, what is your use of "kit"? Thanks, Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 11 07:16:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8BBGA37012824 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 07:16:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BBFg4d021157 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Sep 2004 05:15:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BBEdBh087411; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 05:14:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from lakermmtao04.cox.net (lakermmtao04.cox.net [68.230.240.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BBDvBh087014 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 05:14:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from vmaa2@cox.net) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.10.139.124]) by lakermmtao04.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.02.01 201-2131-111-104-103-20040709) with ESMTP id <20040911111351.YYQQ11880.lakermmtao04.cox.net@VMAAHQ> for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 07:13:51 -0400 From: "Linda Rice" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Linen/ Dye removal Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 07:11:32 -0400 Message-ID: <041201c497f0$1b500230$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 In-Reply-To: <41423C39.10303@thibault.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i8BBDvBh087014 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is so true! Several months ago I bought some blue and natural herringbone linen. It turned out to be a much darker blue than I wanted, so I decided to try Rit dye remover on it. I left it in the washer all afternoon, then all evening, with very little appreciable difference in color. I think I even added a cup or so of bleach because I was frustrated. Eventually, I went to bed and left it there. Next morning- yowza! Yes, the dark blue was all gone. What was revealed was STRIPES! Very subtle irregular fine stripes in medium blue, gray, rust, and green! It also got baby soft. So, sometimes your results can be wildly different from what you think you're gonna get. Pax, ::Linda:: -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of Cynthia Virtue Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen/ Dye removal Dye remover (not bleach) can get you some interesting effects. I used it on a piece of cotton, er, don't know the technical term, but the stores would call it tapestry upholstery fabric. Fabric was originally army green and yellow; the dye remover made it all an antique gold. I'm very pleased with it. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 11 08:43:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8BChrVQ013152 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:43:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BChG4d025475 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Sep 2004 06:43:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BChCBh021458; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 06:43:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BCh9Bh021435 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 06:43:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from bridgett.cornell.edu (syr-24-58-127-194.twcny.rr.com [24.58.127.194]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i8BCh5tN025431 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:43:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20040911083626.00b85220@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:43:51 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Mari Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] What you all do with costumes In-Reply-To: <0D8A9A7C-037F-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> References: <5.2.1.1.2.20040910174825.00b89640@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> <7FBB02B3-0361-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> <5.2.1.1.2.20040910174825.00b89640@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-PMX-Version: 4.6.1.107272, Antispam-Core: 4.6.1.106808, Antispam-Data: 2004.9.11.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Syrlog... didn't mean to offend. I did relook at my phrashing and indeed you can parse the phrase as belittling theatrical costuming. But my thought was more like " my efforts are not (shoddy, temporary, make-do) or (to be confused with theatrical clothing)" to my mind theatrical clothing is an extension of the atmosphere that the designers and director wishes to create, a form of mask per se... to be taken off once the performance is over - I don't think of my clothing that way. That was my meaning. Bridgette / Mari >>And I'll take this moment to add a tiny note about one of my personal >>'teeth grinders' - The use of the word 'garb' in the SCA - Although many >>will see it as a perfectly fine word - Its meaning, especially in the >>SCA, is colored to mean something unreal, temporary, or costume-like. I >>prefer to use the word clothing for the pieces I make. Indeed, my >>efforts are not shoddy, temporary, make-do or to be confused with >>theatrical clothing. >> >And I guess I would have to take exception to your statement calling >theatrical costuming shoddy, temporary or make-do. Maybe you're thinking >of Halloween type costumes or some theatrical costumes that are really low >quality, but the costumes I've made for high end theatres and universities >are anything but. They are neither shoddy nor temporary, but are very >well constructed and made to last a long time. We use high quality >fabrics and trims and they are very well researched in terms of history >when that is required. > >Sylrog _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 11 08:46:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8BCkltF013159 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:46:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BCkD4d025645 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Sep 2004 06:46:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BCkCBh022585; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 06:46:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from newmail.logical.net (newmail.logical.net [209.23.116.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BCkABi022536 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 06:46:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from homeec@telenet.net) Received: from computername (ip-208-20-92-44.modem.logical.net [208.20.92.44]) by newmail.logical.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8BCk1YA015822 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:46:07 -0400 Message-ID: <002101c497fd$4b96a360$2c5c14d0@computername> From: "Home Ec" To: "Historical Costume" References: <041201c497f0$1b500230$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen/ Dye removal Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:45:59 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > This is so true! Several months ago I bought some blue and natural > herringbone linen. It turned out > to be a much darker blue than I wanted, so I decided to try Rit dye > remover on it. I left it in the > washer all afternoon, then all evening, with very little appreciable > difference in color. I think I > even added a cup or so of bleach because I was frustrated. Eventually, I > went to bed and left it > there. Next morning- yowza! Yes, the dark blue was all gone. What was > revealed was STRIPES! Very > subtle irregular fine stripes in medium blue, gray, rust, and green! It > also got baby soft. So, > sometimes your results can be wildly different from what you think you're > gonna get. I was amazed at what they had to put into the mix when I went to get some paint matched. To get an off green color, they used about 5 different things, including some red. It gave me a better idea about what might have happened to some fabric colors I have had to change! Rowena _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 11 08:51:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8BCpTXG013180 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:51:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BCon4d025882 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Sep 2004 06:50:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BComBh024372; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 06:50:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BCokBh024355 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 06:50:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from bridgett.cornell.edu (syr-24-58-127-194.twcny.rr.com [24.58.127.194]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i8BCoitN028252 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:50:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20040911085010.019984d8@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:51:29 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Mari Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] What you all do with costumes In-Reply-To: <20040911011602.29215.qmail@web81301.mail.yahoo.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-PMX-Version: 4.6.1.107272, Antispam-Core: 4.6.1.106808, Antispam-Data: 2004.9.11.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Angela... just peeked at the site... love the concept! And now I've got the damn score going through my head ; > Bridgette >So, I'll just chime in to state that I'm still in theatrical costuming, >just finished designing Pippin, which one would think is Charlemagne's >Europe, but if you saw the show it's a bit more like neon Charlemagne's >Europe (fabric choices ala Teddy) on acid... Hey, at least you can't call >me boring. For cool visuals, there is a video (in which you can sort of >see the costumes) at www.aclo.com. I really had a fun time with this one. > >Cheers, > >angela _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 11 08:51:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8BCpk8N013188 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:51:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BCpH4d025904 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Sep 2004 06:51:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BCpGBh024545; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 06:51:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from newmail.logical.net (newmail.logical.net [209.23.116.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BCokBi024358 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 06:50:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from homeec@telenet.net) Received: from computername (ip-208-20-92-44.modem.logical.net [208.20.92.44]) by newmail.logical.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8BCofYA016359 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:50:45 -0400 Message-ID: <003801c497fd$f28e5230$2c5c14d0@computername> From: "Home Ec" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040911011602.29215.qmail@web81301.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] What you all do with costumes - Pippin Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:50:39 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > So, I'll just chime in to state that I'm still in theatrical costuming, > just finished designing Pippin, which one would think is Charlemagne's > Europe, but if you saw the show it's a bit more like neon Charlemagne's > Europe (fabric choices ala Teddy) on acid... Hey, at least you can't call > me boring. For cool visuals, there is a video (in which you can sort of > see the costumes) at www.aclo.com. I really had a fun time with this one. I was disappointed to find out it was in California - on the opposite coast! It sounds like it would have been fun to see. Rowena _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 11 08:56:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8BCu0Yq013203 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:56:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BCtQ4d026075 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Sep 2004 06:55:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BCtPBh026229; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 06:55:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BCtOBh026223 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 06:55:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.117] (pm7-117.eos.net [205.133.149.117]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i8BCtLvK022414 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:55:21 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:51:55 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200409111120.i8BBJVBi090492@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: the word "kit" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO on 9/11/04 7:20 AM, h-costume-request@indra.com at h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: > And I kinda like your term of "kit" that you gave in describing "garb". It > also isn't a term I am familiar with. Now that I understand your use of > garb, what is your use of "kit"? I'm going to make a stab at it and see if I'm right! As I understand it, the word "kit" is used by many reenactment groups to mean all the "stuff" that appertains to their costume and/or the role they play. So it would mean their belts, knives, shoes, spoons, hatpins, etc. Not just the garments. I don't know if it also includes furniture and camp things. In the US we generally use the word "kit" to mean gathered parts you assemble into something else, such as a model airplane kit, but this is more in line with the (here) old soldier's "kit bag" use, ie "Pack up your troubles in your old kit bag and smile, smile, smile!" Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 11 09:02:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8BD2rXS013270 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 09:02:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BD1U4d026546 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Sep 2004 07:01:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BD1UBh029289; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 07:01:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BD1QBh029254 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 07:01:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.117] (pm7-117.eos.net [205.133.149.117]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i8BD1MvK023949 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 09:01:22 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:57:56 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200409111120.i8BBJVBi090492@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Chassidim X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO While I'm pretending to be a dictionary, I will answer the question about the word "Chassidic," which I didn't see answered. Chassidim are a sect of ultra-orthodox Jews. They have some unique beliefs which I am not going to go into, suffice to say that they are quite unusual. Anyway, the costume part is that they have many rules about what they can and can't wear. Chassidim live in many places, but there is a big group (or groups?) in New York City. The men wear black clothes, and unusual hats, and have long locks of hair over their temples. You will often see people dressed as Chassidic men in crowd scenes of movies set in New York. Chassidic women have to cover their hair at all times, and wear long sleeved garments. I think they may have to wear skirts as well, and they are supposed to cover their legs. Bizarrely, this is often done by wearing stockings and wigs, so they don't look that much different from other women -- losing the whole point of the thing. Chaim Potok wrote a couple of novels about Hassidic Jews (another way to spell it). "The Chosen" is the most famous one, and it is frequently read in schools, so if you're interested you should be able to find it in your library. I would recommend skipping chapter one, if I remember correctly. It gets very interesting starting in chapter two. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 11 09:03:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8BD30mk013273 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 09:03:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BD2O4d026595 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Sep 2004 07:02:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BD2NBh029662; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 07:02:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m18.mx.aol.com (imo-m18.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BD2KBh029601 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 07:02:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Theflamingneedle@aol.com) Received: from Theflamingneedle@aol.com by imo-m18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.4.) id 6.15c.3e64b429 (18707) for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 09:02:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Theflamingneedle@aol.com Message-ID: <15c.3e64b429.2e745154@aol.com> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 09:02:12 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: the word garb To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5032 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO "And I'll take this moment to add a tiny note about one of my personal 'teeth grinders' - The use of the word 'garb' in the SCA - Although many will see it as a perfectly fine word - Its meaning, especially in the SCA, is colored to mean something unreal, temporary, or costume-like." I was *very* surprised by this statement. I grew up in the SCA (parents active participants) and have participated all over the country, and I've never run into "garb" having a connotation of costume-like. To the contrary, it's always the word that's used to denote period clothing, as opposed to mundane clothing. Further, the etymology of the word is, in fact, pretty period. It's taken from Middle French, "garbe," which meant a graceful outline. There is documentation from as far back as 1622 for it having the meaning of "fashion of dress" as in clerical garb, court garb, servant's garb. "Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance." -Will Durant _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 11 09:11:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8BDBROP013292 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 09:11:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BDAp4d027241 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Sep 2004 07:10:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BDApBh032901; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 07:10:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BDAmBh032866 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 07:10:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Theflamingneedle@aol.com) Received: from Theflamingneedle@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.7.) id 6.8b.14c0d712 (18707) for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 09:10:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Theflamingneedle@aol.com Message-ID: <8b.14c0d712.2e74534e@aol.com> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 09:10:38 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Olde" Jersey To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5032 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/11/04 5:39:36 AM Central Daylight Time, kimiko@kimiko1.com writes: I am a Californian who hasn't traveled much, and while I know "New" Jersey is the ... well, newer American state back east near "New" York, where exactly is "old" Jersey? Jersey is one of the Channel Islands, located at the very edge of the English Channel and actually closer to France than the UK. "Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance." -Will Durant _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 11 09:30:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8BDUEss013382 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 09:30:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BDOb4d027928 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Sep 2004 07:24:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BDOUBh038095; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 07:24:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8BDOPBh037968 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 07:24:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m2.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABAWF9D6ASVDXLS for (sender ); Sat, 11 Sep 2004 06:24:12 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCtGdkTLZMVscsxAIIH2ej7FcwgamWhX/5A== Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id J69HNZ4P; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 06:23:43 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:11:14 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb, costume et al Message-ID: <20040911.081114.-115777669.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-5,7-9,21-25 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-ContentStamp: 9:4:1638073616 X-MAIL-INFO: 00556519ec08253d25797d41081d29790c1911198dbda84c081d00ed4861d9f8c871f8c9c9c8c1c1e8c1312c7558d8095d891c9c0d1c8c8c9c2525e5 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 03:05:49 -0700 Kimiko Small writes: > Hi Julian, > > I am a Californian who hasn't traveled much, and while I know "New" > Jersey is the ... well, newer American state back east near "New" York, > where exactly is "old" Jersey? I'm not Julian, but as it's the weekend and I'm not sure if he'll be on soon, I'll chime in with some information. 'Olde Jersey' is one of at least two islands in the English Channel (also known as the Channel Islands) which have at various times been controlled by England and France (and I think occupied by Germany during WWII, but I might be mistaken about that). The other Island which springs to mind is Guernsey.....and yes, dairying has been a major occupation there.......... I just checked my English maps and I was right in the two that I've already named, but there are three more smaller islands- Herm, Sark, and Alderney. Lily Langtry is probably the most famous person to come out of the Channel Islands, her nickname of 'Jersey Lily' comes from the island where she grew up. Karen ________________________________________________________________ Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 11 09:47:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8BDl3LG013436 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 09:47:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BDkJ4d028965 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Sep 2004 07:46:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BDk8Bh046612; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 07:46:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay10-dav21.bay10.hotmail.com [64.4.37.195]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BDk5Bh046575 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 07:46:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nancy_kiel@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 06:46:00 -0700 Received: from 151.199.157.66 by bay10-dav21.bay10.hotmail.com with DAV; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 13:46:00 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [151.199.157.66] X-Originating-Email: [nancy_kiel@hotmail.com] X-Sender: nancy_kiel@hotmail.com From: "Nancy Kiel" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Barbie pink linen Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 09:46:00 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.10.0006.2205 Seal-Send-Time: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 09:46:00 -0400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Sep 2004 13:46:00.0578 (UTC) FILETIME=[AC468E20:01C49805] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i8BDl3LG013436 Status: RO Overdying with orange will tone it down. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gail & Scott Finke To: h-costume@indra.com Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 11:26 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: Barbie pink linen on 9/10/04 7:05 PM, h-costume-request@indra.com at h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: > Remember the Barbie Pink linen quite a few of us picked up at JoAnne's a > couple of years ago? I know Robin was using her for her demo fittings - at > least, she was when she did one after her Boston lecture. There was quite a > discussion of How To Remove the Hot Pink Color. > > What WAS the consensus on how to change that color? I found I still have > some. Rowena Make something for a little girl. That's what I did with mine, and it is still as pink as ever. To her delight, of course. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 11 09:53:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8BDrJHC013477 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 09:53:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BDqj4d029280 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Sep 2004 07:52:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BDqjBh049333; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 07:52:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BDqiBh049321 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 07:52:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.190] (p30.3c04.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.190]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i8BDpO602293 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 07:51:24 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20040911083626.00b85220@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> References: <5.2.1.1.2.20040910174825.00b89640@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> <7FBB02B3-0361-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> <5.2.1.1.2.20040910174825.00b89640@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> <5.2.1.1.2.20040911083626.00b85220@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <65327406-03FA-11D9-A7AA-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] What you all do with costumes Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 07:56:35 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO No offense taken. I was just trying to counteract a tendency I sometimes see from the costuming world, and as I said, I'm sure it happens in other areas as well. On Sep 11, 2004, at 6:43 AM, Mari Stewart wrote: > > Hi Syrlog... didn't mean to offend. I did relook at my phrashing and > indeed you can parse the phrase as belittling theatrical costuming. > > But my thought was more like > " my efforts are not (shoddy, temporary, make-do) or (to be > confused with theatrical clothing)" > to my mind theatrical clothing is an extension of the atmosphere that > the designers and director wishes to create, a form of mask per se... > to be taken off once the performance is over - I don't think of my > clothing that way. > That was my meaning. > > Bridgette / Mari > >>> And I'll take this moment to add a tiny note about one of my personal >>> 'teeth grinders' - The use of the word 'garb' in the SCA - Although >>> many will see it as a perfectly fine word - Its meaning, especially >>> in the SCA, is colored to mean something unreal, temporary, or >>> costume-like. I prefer to use the word clothing for the pieces I >>> make. Indeed, my efforts are not shoddy, temporary, make-do or to >>> be confused with theatrical clothing. >>> >> And I guess I would have to take exception to your statement calling >> theatrical costuming shoddy, temporary or make-do. Maybe you're >> thinking of Halloween type costumes or some theatrical costumes that >> are really low quality, but the costumes I've made for high end >> theatres and universities are anything but. They are neither shoddy >> nor temporary, but are very well constructed and made to last a long >> time. We use high quality fabrics and trims and they are very well >> researched in terms of history when that is required. >> >> Sylrog > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 11 10:15:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8BEFdOp013599 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 10:15:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BEF14d000798 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:15:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BEExBh059563; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:14:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BEEwBh059490 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:14:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-8.13) id A83819CA0076; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 10:14:16 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.103 ([209.131.81.103] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 11 Sep 04 14:14:12 -0000 Message-ID: <005f01c4980a$96d8c4e0$675183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: the word garb Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 10:21:11 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This turn of the conversation puts me in the mind of a suitable word choice to denote clothing of Native Americans. My brother in law (New England/ Canadian Tribes) insisted I should use the term"regalia" in reference to any clothing which I was calling 'costume'. "Regalia" to me was ceremonially connected in any other costume sense. Since the clothing I was providing for theatrical use was 'ersatz', I objected to using his term. But he always corrected me. I even took to using "garb" to make the difference between his authentic clothing (antique and new) and what I was providing for other venues, and he still insisted on "regalia". Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gail & Scott Finke" To: Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 11:32 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: the word garb > on 9/10/04 10:16 PM, h-costume-request@indra.com at > h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: > > >> And I'll take this moment to add a tiny note about one of my personal > >> 'teeth grinders' - The use of the word 'garb' in the SCA - Although > >> many will see it as a perfectly fine word - Its meaning, especially in > >> the SCA, is colored to mean something unreal, temporary, or > >> costume-like. I prefer to use the word clothing for the pieces I > >> make. Indeed, my efforts are not shoddy, temporary, make-do or to be > >> confused with theatrical clothing. > >> > > In my area of the SCA, "garb" doesn't imply anything temporary, although it > may mean "costumey" (depending on the skill of the maker). The way it was > explained to me many years ago is that it was a word chosen in place of the > word "costume," because people wanted a word that meant real clothes but > that implied "non-modern." I think that has remained true in general, > although I have seen many people with gorgeous medieval clothes refer to > them as costumes, and people with the most costume stuff swear that they > don't think of it as a costume, but as their real clothes. Oh well. But I > suppose the implications of the word vary over time, and across continents! > > Gail Finke > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 11 10:36:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8BEaUt7013705 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 10:36:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BEZv4d002524 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:35:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BEZtBh069975; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:35:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BEZsBh069966 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:35:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.190] (p30.3c04.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.190]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i8BEYY604030 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:34:34 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <000d01c497d4$caec4800$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <000d01c497d4$caec4800$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <6E6DCF89-0400-11D9-A7AA-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] what you all do with costumes Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:39:48 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO For those of you who, like Bjarne, make costume for people from afar, is it ever a problem with them not fitting? I never trust people to take their own measurements. I would hate to make something like Bjarne does, putting in all that time and effort, send it off and then have it returned because it didnt fit and it wasn't my fault. How do you handle measurements and fittings? Sylrog On Sep 11, 2004, at 1:56 AM, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi, > I studyed on a design school in 4 years. This was back in 1976-1980. I > specialised in costume. > Then i waited to get some orders, but even though our school had made a > folder with the students works, nobody called or wrote to me. > Then i tryed some theaters, but it seemed impossible, they all wanted > seamstresses. > Then i almost gave up and began my earning in many different jobs. > It wasnt until 1995 or something like that, that i started again. > Knowing > some hairdressers who made shows with historical hairstyles. I didnt > earn a > penny of it, but i made costumes for them. Then i got a computer and > acces > to the net and i got a homepage. I started to put up pictures of my > costumes > and when i joined this group and a group called sewinghistoric, i > suddently > had people to look at my work. And a little by little i got orders from > reenactors. > So far i have made costumes for people in Swizzerland, England, > Germany, > Norway, America and Sweden. But still it is nothing i earn much with, > i have > a full time job to take care of besides my costuming. It is however > lovely, > i like it very much and i can choose wich things i like to do and wich > i > dont. > But it is also because i make embroidery on my costumes and therefore > it > takes a lot of time to have them finished. > > > Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 11 10:59:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8BExSFg013843 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 10:59:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BEwc4d004006 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:58:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BEwVBh080866; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:58:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BEwRBh080692 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:58:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fe1.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.225]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 829735EE013 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 16:58:14 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <00aa01c4980f$d091e450$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000d01c497d4$caec4800$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <6E6DCF89-0400-11D9-A7AA-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] what you all do with costumes Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 16:58:36 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I use the meassure chart from Jean Hunniset's book. It has a drawing showing where you make your meassures. I send this to my overseas costumers. Then i make a mock up of the corset and sends this corset over to try on the client. I have ben very lucky the times i made it like this, because only few things had to be changed. And i have never had a costumer who disliked the result. Then i also have to ad that 18th century dresses are very easy to fit. The stays only needs 4 meassures and it will fit. Maybe because i use very tight lacing :-) Bjarne, who now has to pleat even more silk organza for the neckline of the courtdress.....................sigh................. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sylvia Rognstad" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2004 4:39 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] what you all do with costumes > For those of you who, like Bjarne, make costume for people from afar, > is it ever a problem with them not fitting? I never trust people to > take their own measurements. I would hate to make something like > Bjarne does, putting in all that time and effort, send it off and then > have it returned because it didnt fit and it wasn't my fault. How do > you handle measurements and fittings? > > Sylrog _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 11 13:26:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8BHQQYh014590 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 13:26:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BHPk4d016895 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Sep 2004 11:25:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BHPYBh052783; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 11:25:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web53101.mail.yahoo.com (web53101.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.204]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8BHOtBh052461 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 11:24:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from smnco37@yahoo.co.uk) Message-ID: <20040911172450.595.qmail@web53101.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [82.112.145.209] by web53101.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 18:24:50 BST Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 18:24:50 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?julian=20wilson?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb, costume et al To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20040911030040.00b190c0@64.87.54.245> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Kimiko, I began using the "olde" Jersey sign-off when too many SCAdians on the Lists to which I subscribe wrongly assumed I lived in "New Jersey". I am sure that you realise that many places in the modern Eastern USA were named by their original settlers after places in Western Europe , - "New Amsterdam" which became "New York", (New) Orleans, Portsmouth, Plymouth, (New) Hampshire, Boston, - the list is very long. What is now the State of "New Jersey" originally comprised part of the lands in the "new world" Royally granted to Sir George De Carteret, whose family had at that time held Offices under the Crown at the English Court, - and in the Anglo Norman isle of Jersey, [15 miles off the Normandy coast in the Gulf of Mont St. Michel], for 400 years and more - since the time of The Conquest in 1066AD. The De Carteret Family of Jersey [where they held the Fief of St Ouen as Chefs-Tenant to our Duke, The King, ] originated in Normandy, with their principal Honour [estates] around the ancient seaport town of Carteret on the Cherbourg peninsula [this was their largest estate] - held by Knight Service originally from their Liege Lord Duke William [The Bastard* of Normandy. Note* - not a derogatory term at that time when it simpoly denoted birth of an acknowledged son to an official Mistress rather than to a lawful Wife]. Duke William The Bastard [descended from the Viking Leader Rollo of the 10th century] - was a Ruling Prince in his own Right, who became King William the First of England following his defeat of the Saxon Army of King Harold at the Battle of Santlache - which the English name Hastings, - in 1066 AD, - and Siegneur Guillaume de Carteret commanded a Wing [or Battel] of Duke William's invading army. During the Tudor Period, the De Carterets of Jersey became prominent at the English Court - and invested liegemen and money in expeditions to discover the "new world"; - and these eventually led to Royal Land Grants in what became the State of New Jersey. That is the connection. "Kit" - an English military and naval word for personal equipment of any kind not including personal weapons. I am not sure when it first appeared in the English military and naval lexicon, but I believe that was probably around the time of the Boer War in S. Africa, 1899-1902 Certainly by the time of the Great War 1914-1918 - English soldiers and sailors carried their persoanl equipment in large, tubular, stout, canavs bags officially named "kitbags" There is a famous marching song of that time [still being sung during WW2] titled "Pack-Up Your Troubles" of which the first line runs - "Pack up your troubles in your old kitbag, and smile, smile, smile...." US soldiers have or had "footlockers" for the same purpose, so I am told. OK, I'm beginning to lecture, so I'll stop here. But you did ask. Julian, in "olde" Jersey. Kimiko Small wrote: At 08:40 AM 9/11/2004 +0100, you wrote: >Julian, >in "olde" Jersey. Hi Julian, I am a Californian who hasn't traveled much, and while I know "New" Jersey is the ... well, newer American state back east near "New" York, where exactly is "old" Jersey? >the proven research which precedes every new bit of kit we produce. And I kinda like your term of "kit" that you gave in describing "garb". It also isn't a term I am familiar with. Now that I understand your use of garb, what is your use of "kit"? Thanks, Kimiko --------------------------------- ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 11 14:12:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8BIChiU014737 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 14:12:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BIC04d020311 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Sep 2004 12:12:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BIBxBh076151; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 12:11:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web53108.mail.yahoo.com (web53108.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.211]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8BIBuBh076101 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 12:11:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from smnco37@yahoo.co.uk) Message-ID: <20040911181151.86449.qmail@web53108.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [82.112.145.209] by web53108.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 19:11:51 BST Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 19:11:51 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?julian=20wilson?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb, costume et al To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20040911.081114.-115777669.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO seamstrix@juno.com wrote: I'm not Julian, but as it's the weekend and I'm not sure if he'll be on soon, I'll chime in with some information. 'Olde Jersey' is one of atleast two islands in the English Channel (also known as the Channel Islands) which have at various times been controlled by England andFrance (and I think occupied by Germany during WWII, but I might be mistaken about that). The other Island which springs to mind is Guernsey.....and yes, dairying has been a major occupationthere.......... I just checked my English maps and I was right in the two that I've already named, but there are three more smaller islands- Herm, Sark, and Alderney. Lily Langtry is probably the most famous person to come out of the Channel Islands, her nickname of 'Jersey Lily' comes from the island where she grew up. OK, after a glorious day re-enacting XVth Cent. Jersey living history at the great Castle of Gorey [Mont Orgeuil - generally held to be the best preserved, non-residential, medieval castle in Britain - the finest setting any re-enactment Group could wish for - eat your hearts out!] - Julian is back on line for a while. Occupied by the Nazis during WW2? - Yes, you are correct - and there are still thousands of older Jerseymen and women [my wife is one of them] who have still not forgotten what it is like to be betrayed by your own Government and abandoned to try and stay alive under a Fascist Dictatorship for 5 years. My wife - even after all these years - still gets the "cold shivers" [that goose-pimple-causing "someone is walking over my grave" feeling] whenever she hears German Military brass band music. (For my part, Air Raid Sirens do the same thing!) ] Over 2000 Jersey folk were deported to Nazi Concentration Camps, initially to Biberach- and many of them died in those camps - some in the ovens at Aushwitz, Buchenwald, Dachau, and Mauthausen. Guernsey suffered in the same way - but I have forgotten the numbers of deportees. Alderney was completely evacuated, and became the site of the only Nazi concentration-camp erected on British soil; - and because the SS and Todt organization staff "sanitised" the site before May 9th, 1945 - to this day no one is sure how many slave labourers died there. Alderney was turned into the hub of the KanalinselnFestung [Fortress Channel Islands], and was the location for the famous "Mirus Batterie" - which mounted 4x305mm ex-Russian Navy Rifles [seriously large naval guns] You missed the final inhabited Channel Island - that of Jethou, [probably because it's so small on the maps] leased from the Crown Estates by the seriously-wealthy and secretive Barclay brothers. OK. Lets get back to medieval history, shall we? The medieval Anglo-Norman Isles were a rich trading centre astride the coastal navigation routes between England and the South. A large pilgrim trade flowed in both directions, plus the big trade in other commodities. Only medieval London saw a greater foreign trade inwards and outwards. Jersey merchants of the medieval period are known to have traded up into the Baltic States, with the Hanseatic League, and into Russia as far as Kiev The Golden. While to the South, Jersey Merchants are known to have traded and voyaged as far as Damascus, Jerusalem, and fabled Byzantium. This diversity of medieval cultures passing through our Islands gives our re-enactment group a very wide choice of characters, fashions, etc. Julian, in "olde" Jersey Julian, in "olde" Jersey. --------------------------------- ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 11 14:16:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8BIGsOK014743 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 14:16:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BIG64d020558 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Sep 2004 12:16:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BIG4Bh078221; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 12:16:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BIG2Bh078195 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 12:16:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from sdn-ap-009masprip0414.dialsprint.net ([63.186.145.160]) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1C6CPo-0004vF-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 14:16:00 -0400 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 14:16:48 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] What you all do with costumes From: ruthanne baumgartner To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <7FBB02B3-0361-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > If not involved in the SCA or > with Renn Faires, what do you do? Are you in reenactment groups or > role-playing groups? Are you into museum work or clothing restoration > and preservation? Are you, like me, in theatre? > > Sylrog > In a sense I started life as a costumer--at least, back in those keep-the-kids-quiet-at-midday-in-summer days (for fear of polio, and does that date me?), I spent a great deal of time designing and sewing outfits for my dolls. Moved on to sewing for myself, both with and without patterns, prior to 7th-grade sewing class (where the teacher and I had some disagreements!). In college I started sewing (and knitting, actually) for other people, sometimes just for the cost of the fabric (or yarn) and sometimes for an extra fee, depending on whether I was interested in making the garment or not. In grad school I decided to give up short skirts, so when I wanted to dress more fancy than jeans I made the long skirts, long dresses, and capes I took to wearing (had to make 'em--NOT in fashion then!). Continued this during my first 15 years of teaching, since I discovered that I was most comfortable in front of an "audience" in long skirts. My working life has become more hectic and more complicated and my salary has dropped, so now I just go around most of the time in jeans. But in 1994 I undertook to direct Midsummer Night's Dream at a community theater and have since then done a lot of period or quasi-period costuming, since that's the only way I can mount my annual period production on the miniscule budgets I have in community theater. I do not do this for pay--and that's a shame, since I could REALLY use the money. But I can't afford the tuition or the time to go back to school to get myself credentialed (and properly trained) to enter professional costuming. Outside of theater I have costumed an early-music performing group (for pay) and have made a few bridal and prom gowns, some for paying friends and some for non-paying family. I THINK I'll be making another bridal gown this winter (for pay), although I'm seriously considering suggesting that the bride visit Bjarne's website and explore getting a really distinctive gown done by a real artist! Subscribing to this list has made me wish fervently that I could undertake some efforts at authentic recreations, but I really don't have the time, and I really don't have anyone who needs such garb (as Robin so clearly and effectively explained in a posting yesterday, stage costuming has other and sometimes conflicting priorities). I am an experienced and pretty competent knitter, crocheter, tatter, maker of bobbin lace, embroiderer, and hand-sewing able seamer, but these skills are for now too time-consuming to pursue. (So many things we learn to do go by the wayside--not only coloring-inside-the-lines, but also French, Latin, the violin, the French horn, ensemble singing, and use of the slide-rule, for me--what a pity! Didn't ordinary LIVING use to have more time around it?) So anyway, I sew vicariously by looking at the beautiful creations the serious working members of this list share with us. --Ruth Anne Baumgartner amateur costumer and scholar gypsy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 11 14:55:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8BItmWx015004 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 14:55:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BIt64d022682 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Sep 2004 12:55:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BIt3Bh096575; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 12:55:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BIt1Bh096529 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 12:55:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from sdn-ap-009masprip0414.dialsprint.net ([63.186.145.160]) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1C6D1W-00011H-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 14:54:59 -0400 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 14:55:47 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb, costume et al From: ruthanne baumgartner To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20040911172450.595.qmail@web53101.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Julian, Thanks for this interesting post. I grew up near Carteret, New Jersey. --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer on 9/11/04 1:24 PM, julian wilson at smnco37@yahoo.co.uk wrote: > Dear Kimiko, > I began using the "olde" Jersey sign-off when too many SCAdians on the Lists > to which I subscribe wrongly assumed I lived in "New Jersey". I am sure that > you realise that many places in the modern Eastern USA were named by their > original settlers after places in Western Europe , - "New Amsterdam" which > became "New York", (New) Orleans, Portsmouth, Plymouth, (New) Hampshire, > Boston, - the list is very long. > > What is now the State of "New Jersey" originally comprised part of the lands > in the "new world" Royally granted to Sir George De Carteret, whose family had > at that time held Offices under the Crown at the English Court, - and in the > Anglo Norman isle of Jersey, [15 miles off the Normandy coast in the Gulf of > Mont St. Michel], for 400 years and more - since the time of The Conquest in > 1066AD. > > The De Carteret Family of Jersey [where they held the Fief of St Ouen as > Chefs-Tenant to our Duke, The King, ] originated in Normandy, with their > principal Honour [estates] around the ancient seaport town of Carteret on the > Cherbourg peninsula [this was their largest estate] - held by Knight Service > originally from their Liege Lord Duke William [The Bastard* of Normandy. > Note* - not a derogatory term at that time when it simpoly denoted birth of an > acknowledged son to an official Mistress rather than to a lawful Wife]. > Duke William The Bastard [descended from the Viking Leader Rollo of the 10th > century] - was a Ruling Prince in his own Right, who became King William the > First of England following his defeat of the Saxon Army of King Harold at the > Battle of Santlache - which the English name Hastings, - in 1066 AD, - and > Siegneur Guillaume de Carteret commanded a Wing [or Battel] of Duke William's > invading army. > > During the Tudor Period, the De Carterets of Jersey became prominent at the > English Court - and invested liegemen and money in expeditions to discover the > "new world"; - and these eventually led to Royal Land Grants in what became > the State of New Jersey. That is the connection. > > "Kit" - an English military and naval word for personal equipment of any kind > not including personal weapons. I am not sure when it first appeared in the > English military and naval lexicon, but I believe that was probably around the > time of the Boer War in S. Africa, 1899-1902 Certainly by the time of the > Great War 1914-1918 - English soldiers and sailors carried their persoanl > equipment in large, tubular, stout, canavs bags officially named "kitbags" > There is a famous marching song of that time [still being sung during WW2] > titled "Pack-Up Your Troubles" of which the first line runs - "Pack up your > troubles in your old kitbag, and smile, smile, smile...." US soldiers have > or had "footlockers" for the same purpose, so I am told. > OK, I'm beginning to lecture, so I'll stop here. > But you did ask. > Julian, > in "olde" Jersey. > > Kimiko Small wrote: > At 08:40 AM 9/11/2004 +0100, you wrote: >> Julian, >> in "olde" Jersey. > > > Hi Julian, > > I am a Californian who hasn't traveled much, and while I know "New" Jersey > is the ... well, newer American state back east near "New" York, where > exactly is "old" Jersey? > >> the proven research which precedes every new bit of kit we produce. > > And I kinda like your term of "kit" that you gave in describing "garb". It > also isn't a term I am familiar with. Now that I understand your use of > garb, what is your use of "kit"? > > Thanks, > > Kimiko > > --------------------------------- > ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 11 15:12:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8BJC0Fh015325 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 15:12:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BJBP4d023432 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Sep 2004 13:11:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BJBOBh003545; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 13:11:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web53102.mail.yahoo.com (web53102.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.205]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8BJBMBh003512 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 13:11:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from smnco37@yahoo.co.uk) Message-ID: <20040911191117.20793.qmail@web53102.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [82.112.145.209] by web53102.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 20:11:17 BST Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 20:11:17 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?julian=20wilson?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb, costume et al To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Ruth, well, now you know where the town's name originally came from - the little, tidal, Norman fishing port of Carteret, on the S. coast of the Cherbourg peninsula, midway between Flamanville, and Granville. It is actually the closest French port to Jersey, - and with the tidal reef of the Ecrehous midway between the two, was probably - nay, almost certainly - at one time the main port handling trade with Jersey. Because if a storm came along, the open-water journey was halved by the little islands of the Ecrehous Reef, where the Abbey of Avranches even had a small monastic setlement, and there was - still is - a small protected lagoon-style anchorage where one can ride out a storm. Medieval sailing vessels would not have averaged more than 4 knots "over the ground" even with a favourable wind, and tide - but that meant a journey stopping at the Ecrehous Reef might only take 2 hours, - and then one could overnight there, and continue the journey the next day, also with favourable tides. - They run faster around the British Channel Islands than almost anywhere else in the world - the tidal range is the world 2nd largest - only Nova Scotia has a greater rise & fall, and consequently faster [and stronger therefore] tidal currents. Julian, in "olde" Jersey In Service, Julian, in "olde" Jersey. ruthanne baumgartner wrote: Dear Julian, Thanks for this interesting post. I grew up near Carteret, New Jersey. --Ruth Anne Baumgartner --------------------------------- ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 11 16:04:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8BK4sbg015621 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 16:04:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BK4C4d026685 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Sep 2004 14:04:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BK49Bh027017; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 14:04:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BK47Bi026998 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 14:04:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i8BKQxR9032250 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 16:27:00 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040911124657.00baabd0@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 13:04:03 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance In-Reply-To: References: <7FBB02B3-0361-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO One of the things that I really like about this list is the fact that we usually have an off-topic topic running among the on-topic posts and I almost always find the off-topic topic interesting . So, here's a new one ... How many of the members don't know anything about polio or smallpox? When Ruthanne and I were growing up, these were *serious* (and deadly) concerns. These days, they exist only in laboratories. My little sister contracted polio in 1951 at age one year, two weeks. Those were the barbaric days when polio victims were basically written off to die. As a child, I remember the iron-lungs, but they were not yet in wide use. Does anybody even remember seeing a *picture* of an iron lung? What a ghastly way to live, inside a machine that does your breathing for you . My mother was a nurse and part of her study had been under Sister Kenny. Does anybody have any idea who she was and the heroic impact she made on modern medical treatment? Anyway, after the doctors did their thing, Mom did the Sister Kenny thing. Nikki walks with a limp, but SHE WALKS because of the unorthodox Sister Kenny treatment that Mom performed against doctors' orders. She dances a bit funny but she swims like a fish. People sometimes complain about doctors and medicine, but due to the advances in treatment from even 50 years ago, a lot of us are alive (including myself) that would have died in those days. Now, getting back on topic a bit. I wonder how many people have died because of heat exhaustion because of being told that salt is bad for us? I have a couple of bottles of salt tablets for the really hot days when I work in the garden in defiance of the heat. Katie, who has received Kass's Elizabethan gown pattern and looks forward to making a ropa. >In a sense I started life as a costumer--at least, back in those >keep-the-kids-quiet-at-midday-in-summer days (for fear of polio, and does >that date me?), _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 11 16:45:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8BKjM6p016007 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 16:45:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BKid4d029184 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Sep 2004 14:44:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BKiXBh045910; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 14:44:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BKiVBh045889 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 14:44:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85CE72B7EF for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 15:44:31 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t2p243.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.216.245]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 6A960D4AF for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 15:44:30 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: the word garb Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 15:44:48 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <005f01c4980a$96d8c4e0$675183d1@rmitchellras> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The term "regalia" was chosen in about the `70 and `80s because many NAs felt that what was worn, their traditional and dance clothing was not a costume by Halloween definition as most of them probably only knew the term costume in reference to Halloween and theatre (mainly Hollywood movies). My Friend Blue Sky's father called them costumes, this was in the `50s and `60s. He was of Mashpee descent and was usually on the Cheyenne and Lakota Res' or introducing NA ways to non NAs. Why "regalia", I and a few other have always wondered. There are those that have gotten a bit rabid about it. Blue Sky is 67 years old and a descendant of Massosoit's daughter. One of these rabid "must call it regalia" people (looked to be 25 -30yrs old) admonished her for calling her buckskin dress a costume and as I said it is what her father called it. That person lost quite a few people's respect that day. De -----Original Message----- This turn of the conversation puts me in the mind of a suitable word choice to denote clothing of Native Americans. My brother in law (New England/ Canadian Tribes) insisted I should use the term "regalia" in reference to any clothing which I was calling 'costume'. "Regalia" to me was ceremonially connected in any other costume sense. Since the clothing I was providing for theatrical use was 'ersatz', I objected to using his term. But he always corrected me. I even took to using "garb" to make the difference between his authentic clothing (antique and new) and what I was providing for other venues, and he still insisted on "regalia". Kathleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 11 16:59:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8BKxGT4016137 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 16:59:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BKwc4d000171 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Sep 2004 14:58:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BKwZBh051849; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 14:58:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-6.dnv.wideopenwest.com (pop-6.dnv.wideopenwest.com [64.233.207.24]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BKwXBh051782 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 14:58:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mplumb@wideopenwest.com) Received: from Jupiter.plumbnet (d14-69-189-68.try.wideopenwest.com [69.14.68.189]) by pop-6.dnv.wideopenwest.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i8BKwPU32604 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 15:58:26 -0500 From: Michelle Plumb To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 17:01:07 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.3 References: <7FBB02B3-0361-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> <5.2.0.9.0.20040911124657.00baabd0@mail.katiesorchids.com> In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040911124657.00baabd0@mail.katiesorchids.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200409111701.07141.mplumb@wideopenwest.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The only thing I know about polio is the little sugar cubes with the pink stuff on it that we were given in school. Sister Kenny? Rosalind Russell played her in an old movie I saw on TCM last year. But you know Hollywood. It probably wasn't accurate. Smallpox? I read a book mentioning it. It was a murder mystery set in 18th century America. The back story was a doctor testing out a "vaccine" for the disease using an ill person's tissues inserted under the healthy person's skin. Ick. Michelle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 11 17:31:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8BLVsuJ016566 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 17:31:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BLVD4d002558 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Sep 2004 15:31:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BLVABh066480; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 15:31:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BLV6Bh066418 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 15:31:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1C6FSZ-000FX9-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 21:31:03 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 21:40:49 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] What you all do with costumes References: <7FBB02B3-0361-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> In-Reply-To: <7FBB02B3-0361-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm a British re-enactor, I make costumes for myself and my husband (and currently our stuffies!). At the moment I do 12th century for an authentic, public-education type reenactment group, but I have also done SCA, various periods but focusing on early Tudor, and the occasional bit of 18th and 19th century for fancy dress. I enjoy discussing detail for the periods I know something about, and listening to all the fascinating information other people have about the rest. Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 11 17:32:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8BLWPAx016569 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 17:32:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BLVo4d002596 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Sep 2004 15:31:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BLVoBh066777; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 15:31:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BLV6Bh066421 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 15:31:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1C6FSZ-000FX6-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 21:31:03 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 21:03:01 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Court Garb in hot weather[ bit long] References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A17@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO otsisto wrote >-----Original Message----- > > >De >Note: perhaps, though it is not life threatening, people can say what they >do for those wet/damp weekends as well as the brisk weekends. > At events where it pours, I always feel really smug (as well as snug) in a nice cloak and hood, watching the public going round in strappy sandals and plastic ponchos. And sitting in a tent, or under a shelter, thinking "you have cars, there are lovely tea rooms in town, why are you standing out there in the rain watching me being dry?" Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 11 17:32:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8BLWVkX016572 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 17:32:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BLVt4d002614 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Sep 2004 15:31:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BLVsBh066812; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 15:31:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BLV6Bh066420 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 15:31:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1C6FSZ-000FX7-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 21:31:03 +0000 Message-ID: <$iaZurJWv1QBJwTQ@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 21:11:02 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Chassidim References: <200409111120.i8BBJVBi090492@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Gail & Scott Finke wrote > >While I'm pretending to be a dictionary, I will answer the question about >the word "Chassidic," which I didn't see answered. > >Chassidim are a sect of ultra-orthodox Jews. They have some unique beliefs >which I am not going to go into, suffice to say that they are quite unusual. >Anyway, the costume part is that they have many rules about what they can >and can't wear. > >Chassidim live in many places, but there is a big group (or groups?) in New >York City. The men wear black clothes, and unusual hats, and have long locks >of hair over their temples. You will often see people dressed as Chassidic >men in crowd scenes of movies set in New York. Chassidic women have to cover >their hair at all times, and wear long sleeved garments. I think they may >have to wear skirts as well, and they are supposed to cover their legs. >Bizarrely, this is often done by wearing stockings and wigs, so they don't >look that much different from other women -- losing the whole point of the >thing. > >Chaim Potok wrote a couple of novels about Hassidic Jews (another way to >spell it). "The Chosen" is the most famous one, and it is frequently read in >schools, so if you're interested you should be able to find it in your >library. I would recommend skipping chapter one, if I remember correctly. It >gets very interesting starting in chapter two. > >Gail Finke > By chance the other day I came across information on modest dress and headcovering under Jewish law. I found it quite surprising. While Christian and Muslim tradition is mainly about covering oneself in public, particularly in front of unrelated men, the ideal of Jewish headcovering is apparently for a married woman to keep her hair covered at *all* times, including in bed with her husband, and when combing it - you do so under a loose scarf. So what looks like a very similar requirement in all three "Abrahamic" religions is actually quite different. Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 11 17:32:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8BLWXig016575 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 17:32:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BLW14d002628 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Sep 2004 15:32:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BLW0Bh066851; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 15:32:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BLV6Bh066419 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 15:31:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1C6FSZ-000FX8-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 21:31:03 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 21:31:01 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: the word "kit" References: <200409111120.i8BBJVBi090492@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Gail & Scott Finke wrote >on 9/11/04 7:20 AM, h-costume-request@indra.com at >h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: > >> And I kinda like your term of "kit" that you gave in describing "garb". It >> also isn't a term I am familiar with. Now that I understand your use of >> garb, what is your use of "kit"? > >I'm going to make a stab at it and see if I'm right! As I understand it, the >word "kit" is used by many reenactment groups to mean all the "stuff" that >appertains to their costume and/or the role they play. So it would mean >their belts, knives, shoes, spoons, hatpins, etc. Not just the garments. I >don't know if it also includes furniture and camp things. In the US we >generally use the word "kit" to mean gathered parts you assemble into >something else, such as a model airplane kit, but this is more in line with >the (here) old soldier's "kit bag" use, ie "Pack up your troubles in your >old kit bag and smile, smile, smile!" > >Gail Finke > This is correct, but "kit" is used in both senses, eg: "we have so much kit we had to buy a larger car" and "sometimes I just walk to events in kit, rather than change when I get there" A lot of British reenactors also use "civvies" (ie, civilian clothes) for modern clothing, from the same military background. Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 11 17:38:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8BLcTRb016691 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 17:38:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BLbp4d003029 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Sep 2004 15:37:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BLboBh069330; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 15:37:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BLbkBi069295 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 15:37:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i8BLZoTA019884 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 17:35:50 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 17:35:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <41437026.1030902@thibault.org> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 17:37:42 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Equestrian hats X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm all fired up! Are there folks who talk about hats-over-helmets on the re-enactment horseriding lists? Now that I've been to my first ever SCA equestrian event, I can see vast possibilities. There were some 8 or so horses and people in great outfits at this one, but not all of them had hats other than the modern safety helmets (black and shiny with a bill, or white and shiny and looked rather like a bicycle helmet). The helmets tend to be large, so garb, and hats, which are large seem like a really good pairing. I could easily see making a heart-shaped hat that could be tied onto one of those helmets -- take advantage of the bulk of the helmet, and hide it, at the same time. You'd look like you weren't wearing a helmet, almost. And the men could make a stuffed roll with a D-shaped cross section, so it would look like one of the truly huge stuffed roll hats. My mind is dancing with delight thinking about this new frontier of hatmaking! (Apologies to those of you on the SCA-Milliners list who also got a version of this message.) -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Frodo off to Mordor with Sam. Tiny little men caring about each other, rather cute really. -- The very secret diaries _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 11 18:26:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8BMQHdx017181 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 18:26:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BMOJ4d005966 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Sep 2004 16:24:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BMOHBh090736; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 16:24:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.204]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BMOEBh090708 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 16:24:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from athurman@gmail.com) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 79so133318rnl for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 15:24:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.73.3 with SMTP id v3mr385144rna; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 15:24:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.164.19 with HTTP; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 15:24:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7d21ac1904091115244011090f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 18:24:13 -0400 From: "A. Thurman" To: Historic Costume List Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Extinct diseases X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm aware of smallpox and polio, mostly because epidemiology is a pet interest of mine, and I've read about them. Also, I do web development for one of the National Institutes of Health, and actually read what they put on the site - smallpox is much researched because of its possible use as a bioweapon, and tuberculosis is returning as a public health concern, due to the prevalence of antibacterial-resistant strains. Re: smallpox vaccination - my husband has the characteristic vaccination scar, as he was born in Bogota Columbia in 1970, when/where vaccinations were still offered. I was born in 1973, just a year after smallpox vaccination ceased to be offered in the United States (having been eradicated "in the wild"), and have no such scar. I remember my mother telling me about polio scares when she was growing up, and all the kids would be sent home and not allowed out. She remembers taking the first vaccine on a sugar cube, probably from my grandmother, who was a nurse. Obligatory costume content - I wonder what they did to the clothes of people who died of such infectious diseases? I'm guessing they were burnt, but in times places when clothes were extremely valuable, was this done often? Allison T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 11 18:41:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8BMfoTJ017303 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 18:41:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BMf84d007029 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Sep 2004 16:41:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BMf6Bh098394; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 16:41:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail10.mdx.safepages.com (mail10.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.33]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BMf4Bh098358 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 16:41:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail10.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id AFB4520498; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 22:41:08 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust9.tnt2.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.178.9]) by mail10.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 9C91D20408 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 22:41:07 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <016d01c49850$69f66ea0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <7FBB02B3-0361-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net><5.2.0.9.0.20040911124657.00baabd0@mail.katiesorchids.com> <200409111701.07141.mplumb@wideopenwest.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 17:40:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I probably got one of the last standard, non-terrorism related smallpox vaccines, back around 1980 as a child about to go spend several years on the mission field. I was a bit disgruntled to find out that the vaccine I got has probably lost all effect by now. =P -E House Liberty in Our Lifetime - www.freestateproject.org Coming Soon - http://www.seamcheckers.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 11 19:03:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8BN3SWu017430 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 19:03:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BN2q4d008464 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Sep 2004 17:02:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BN2nBh007674; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 17:02:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BN2kBh007640 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 17:02:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from bridgett.cornell.edu (syr-24-58-127-194.twcny.rr.com [24.58.127.194]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i8BN2iSs026011 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 19:02:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20040911190057.00b85210@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 19:03:30 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Mari Stewart In-Reply-To: <20040911181151.86449.qmail@web53108.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040911.081114.-115777669.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-PMX-Version: 4.6.1.107272, Antispam-Core: 4.6.1.106808, Antispam-Data: 2004.9.11.2 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Jersey and Channel Islands X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Julian, Wow... thanks, for the information. I had no idea of all this - amazing. Bridgette / Mari >OK, after a glorious day re-enacting XVth Cent. Jersey living history at >the great Castle of Gorey [Mont Orgeuil - generally held to be the best >preserved, non-residential, medieval castle in Britain - the finest >setting any re-enactment Group could wish for - eat your hearts out!] - >Julian is back on line for a while. > >This diversity of medieval cultures passing through our Islands gives our >re-enactment group a very wide choice of characters, fashions, etc. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 11 19:52:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8BNqSL0017695 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 19:52:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BNp64d011824 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Sep 2004 17:51:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BNowBh028395; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 17:50:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8BNouBh028349 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 17:50:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gia_gavino@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.113 ([204.127.197.113]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <2004091123505101500o8g51e>; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 23:50:51 +0000 Received: from [24.16.244.181] by 204.127.197.113; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 23:50:49 +0000 From: gia_gavino@comcast.net To: h-costume@indra.com (Costume Historical) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 23:50:49 +0000 Message-Id: <091120042350.13727.41438F590003064F0000359F2200745672010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Jul 16 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: Z2lhX2dhdmlub0Bjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] fwd: Samurai Costume Search, day 6... (fwd) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Any one? -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Forwarded Message: -------------- From: "Olaf M." To: antir-costumers@antir.sca.org Subject: [antir-costumers] Samurai Costume Search, day 6... Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 23:25:19 +0000 Hi, I'm looking for a Samurai outfit for my friends. They run a sketch comedy tv show here in the seattle area, and one of the bits for the upcoming episode (a clever kurosawa-parody) requires a convincing Samurai outfit and Ninja outfit. The ninja is pretty easy to take care of, but I'm having a tough time finding anything samurai-ey. Someone (from Craigslist) recommended your group, I'm not sure what it is you do, but I'm kinda shotgunning this request to see if I can find anyone who knows someone who knows someone... and so on. So, if you know someone or are someone who owns/knows where to get a samurai outfit, please shoot me an email at Rabidium@hotmail.com or call me at 206-Mud-Hatt (no joke) and fill me in. Tragically the show has no budget, so I can't pay, but you will get a credit, and the satisfaction of doing something good for some funny guys. If you require other compensation that isn't cash, maybe one of us can help you do something. Thanks in advance for your help! -Olaf --------------------------------------------------------------- Honourably yours, The Irreverend Olaf Malachowski (Accredited DcR., Phd, F.A.C.C.R.; and N.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A. (National Association for the Advancement of Anglo, African, Asian and Assorted Agnostic or Atheistic Americans.) Founding Member) --------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! hthttp://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: antir-costumers-unsubscribe@antir.sca.org For additional commands, e-mail: antir-costumers-help@antir.sca.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 11 20:06:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8C06tVx017793 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 20:06:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8C06H4d012945 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Sep 2004 18:06:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8C06GBh034950; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 18:06:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail3.mdx.safepages.com (mail3.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8C06EBh034911 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 18:06:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail3.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id BD0BF88E8B; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 00:06:11 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust9.tnt2.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.178.9]) by mail3.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 803B6890AE for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 22:32:30 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <014e01c4984f$3aeb6440$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <041201c497f0$1b500230$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen/ Dye removal Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 17:32:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And sometimes you can use those odd results to your advantage! I recently had 21 yards of cotton/linen herringbone that was a dark green, somewhere between olive and forest. Bleaching (and dye remover as well; I actually used both on different pieces of it) took it though some interesting color changes! After a few seconds in a very dilute bath of bleach water, it turned a lovely deep sky blue, then lightened gradually, keeping pretty much the same color; then suddenly it went muddy grey and began to turn into a light but saturated peach color! After than, it went to a completely unsaturated light grey, and then finally a creamy ivory. When I was bleaching it to get it as light as possible in order to overdye it completely unrelated colors, I managed to get nice even versions of those in-between shades. But wouldn't you know it, when I got to the last few yards of it and actually WANTED them that pretty, deep sky blue, I couldn't get an even shade for anything. Grr. I was probably trying too hard (diluting the bleach even more than before); I should have just done exactly what I did before, because too much exposure to oxygen during the bleaching process is what messed me up. -E House Liberty in Our Lifetime - www.freestateproject.org Coming Soon - http://www.seamcheckers.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 11 21:24:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8C1Ov3o018145 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 21:24:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8C1O74d018001 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Sep 2004 19:24:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8C1O4Bh066319; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 19:24:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8C1O2Bh066305 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 19:24:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.100]) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1C6J62-00057V-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 18:24:02 -0700 Message-ID: <4143A53A.4010103@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 18:24:10 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.3 (Windows/20040803) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian hats References: <41437026.1030902@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: <41437026.1030902@thibault.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO So, do you have the horse yet?? :) I'd love to see pictures when you are done, I could use one of these helmet covers. Sg Cynthia Virtue wrote: > I'm all fired up! > > Are there folks who talk about hats-over-helmets on the re-enactment > horseriding lists? > > Now that I've been to my first ever SCA equestrian event, I can see > vast possibilities. There were some 8 or so horses and people in > great outfits at this one, but not all of them had hats other than the > modern safety helmets (black and shiny with a bill, or white and shiny > and looked rather like a bicycle helmet). > > The helmets tend to be large, so garb, and hats, which are large seem > like a really good pairing. I could easily see making a heart-shaped > hat that could be tied onto one of those helmets -- take advantage of > the bulk of the helmet, and hide it, at the same time. You'd look > like you weren't wearing a helmet, almost. > > And the men could make a stuffed roll with a D-shaped cross section, > so it would look like one of the truly huge stuffed roll hats. > > My mind is dancing with delight thinking about this new frontier of > hatmaking! (Apologies to those of you on the SCA-Milliners list who > also got a version of this message.) > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 11 21:57:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8C1vHX1018207 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 21:57:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8C1ui4d020711 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Sep 2004 19:56:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8C1tUBh081435; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 19:55:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8C1tRBh081392 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 19:55:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16818 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 21:02:27 -0500 Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 21:02:27 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Chassidim In-Reply-To: <$iaZurJWv1QBJwTQ@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sat, 11 Sep 2004, Jean Waddie wrote: > By chance the other day I came across information on modest dress and > headcovering under Jewish law. I found it quite surprising. While > Christian and Muslim tradition is mainly about covering oneself in > public, particularly in front of unrelated men, the ideal of Jewish > headcovering is apparently for a married woman to keep her hair > covered at *all* times, including in bed with her husband, and when > combing it - you do so under a loose scarf. So what looks like a very > similar requirement in all three "Abrahamic" religions is actually > quite different. This might well be a particularly strict interpretation of the law by one particular ultra-Orthodox sect. I'm Jewish, with some familiarity of the range of traditions among various Jewish movements, and I've never heard that particular reading before. However, I wouldn't be surprised if whoever wrote what you read made it sound as though this were some canonical "Jewish Law" that was supposed to apply to all Jews. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 11 22:04:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8C243O5018248 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 22:04:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8C23B4d021275 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Sep 2004 20:03:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8C236Bh084620; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 20:03:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8C234Bh084595 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 20:03:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16883 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 21:10:05 -0500 Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 21:10:04 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: the word "kit" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sat, 11 Sep 2004, Jean Waddie wrote: > A lot of British reenactors also use "civvies" (ie, civilian clothes) > for modern clothing, from the same military background. Oh, I like that much better than "mundanes," the usual SCA term. And a nicer ring than my usual phrase, "modern clothes" (as in, "I need time to change into modern clothes during the lunch break"). --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 11 22:10:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8C2AxJ1018254 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 22:10:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8C2AO4d021741 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Sep 2004 20:10:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8C2ALBh087693; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 20:10:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8C2AFBi087599 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 20:10:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i8C2EVUT026625 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 22:14:32 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 22:20:17 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <7FBB02B3-0361-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> <5.2.0.9.0.20040911124657.00baabd0@mail.katiesorchids.com> In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040911124657.00baabd0@mail.katiesorchids.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200409112220.17291.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Saturday 11 September 2004 4:04 pm, Katie Pleasance wrote: [snip] > My little sister contracted polio in 1951 at age one year, two weeks. Those > were the barbaric days when polio victims were basically written off to > die. As a child, I remember the iron-lungs, but they were not yet in wide > use. Does anybody even remember seeing a *picture* of an iron lung? What a > ghastly way to live, inside a machine that does your breathing for you > . Yes, I saw a picture of an iron lung in an encyclopedia once. -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 11 22:13:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8C2DBOv018259 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 22:13:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8C2Cb4d022024 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Sep 2004 20:12:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8C2CaBh088865; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 20:12:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ns3.linuxwebnet.com (ns3.linuxwebnet.com [216.133.76.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8C2CXBh088829 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 20:12:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from judymitch@oldwaylane.net) Received: (qmail 12949 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2004 02:45:20 -0000 Received: from dialup-4.249.141.104.dial1.washington2.level3.net (HELO oldwaylane.net) (4.249.141.104) by shada.com with SMTP; 12 Sep 2004 02:45:20 -0000 Message-ID: <4143AC7D.6090105@oldwaylane.net> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 21:55:09 -0400 From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] GFD fitting question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO uh... we've got a question on another list relating to a fitting a GFD. I'm hoping those more experienced can answer this. I've never made it, so I don't know. I believe the person wants to turn the front 2 pieces, after fitting, into a single front piece and have the lacing/zipper (it's not historical clothing) in the back. "Been having a look at the tutorials found at Robin Netherton's site and at La Cotte Simple. One question, for those more experienced or enlightened, regarding the curved-front-seam fitting method: would it be possible to obtain one simple front piece from where to get a fitted pattern oncce the fitting process is finished and we're happy with the results? Would this one-piece front panel fit and support the bust as well as the two-piece front panel does? I think it would, but then I've never tried anything like this before..." Can anyone here answer? Thanks, much. -Judy Mitchell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 11 22:14:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8C2EgIW018266 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 22:14:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8C2E54d022141 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Sep 2004 20:14:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8C2E3Bh089520; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 20:14:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8C2E1Bi089488 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 20:14:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i8C2IK3L026769 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 22:18:20 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] What you all do with costumes Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 22:24:05 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200409112224.05908.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Saturday 11 September 2004 2:16 pm, ruthanne baumgartner wrote: [snip] > In grad school I decided to give up short skirts, so > when I wanted to dress more fancy than jeans I made the long skirts, long > dresses, and capes I took to wearing (had to make 'em--NOT in fashion > then!). And for those of you not old enough to remember, back then items "not in fashion" were even less available than they are now. There were many fewer second-hand/vintage clothing stores, and no equivalent of the Internet to hunt down rare items. -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 11 22:38:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8C2cFFS018326 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 22:38:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8C2bY4d023550 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Sep 2004 20:37:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8C2bWBh098970; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 20:37:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8C2bUBh098951 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 20:37:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA17128 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 21:44:32 -0500 Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 21:44:31 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] GFD fitting question In-Reply-To: <4143AC7D.6090105@oldwaylane.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sat, 11 Sep 2004, Judy Mitchell wrote: > One question, for those more experienced or enlightened, regarding > the curved-front-seam fitting method: > would it be possible to obtain one simple front piece from where to > get a fitted pattern oncce the fitting process is finished and we're > happy with the results? > Would this one-piece front panel fit and support the bust as well as > the two-piece front panel does? I think it would, but then I've > never tried anything like this before..." First: I generally use a straight front seam. I've tried a curved front, most recently last year when I was making myself a new dress, and promptly saw my bust drop to around my knees. I think the curved front might work better for very small-busted women who want to *gain* some protrusion; I have not found it to work well for uplift on large-busted women like me. But different people like different silhouettes. And of course I'm already accustomed to and comforatable with the straight-front approach. Anyway: With a straight front, you can certainly make the front a single piece; it will behave the same way as two pieces connected on the straight grain. However, I never do this, at least not for the basic body-garment layer. I've seen no evidence for a back fastening on this style, and a great deal of evidence for a front opening. A back opening is a royal pain to do up. Plus, since your back is curved, you also have to deal with having to place your lacing on a curve; if you have a strong curve at the small of the back, you'll find it's hard to make the lacing lie flat and also to avoid scrunching or shifting. For a fitted overdress (to go over the basic fitted dress), I have occasionally used a back lacing, but I can't back it up historically. It does work out a little easier than doing it on the basic dress, because the overdress lacing isn't doing the work of shaping the figure and thus isn't under as much pressure. That said, yes, it will work to put your lacing on the back and to make the front of a single panel. You will still probably have to insert a gore at the front center to allow for the tummy bulge. (The "straight front" is straight only from about the waist up, because there's a flare or gore below that point.) I do not think a single front panel would work for a curved front seam dress, where much of the fitting is done on that center seam. Eliminate the center seam, and you lose your room for bust expansion and shaping. I should also note that if you're going to do a straight front seam, don't follow the sequence of steps on Tasha's site, where she has a side-by-side comparison of curved-front and straight-front attempts on the same model. When she created that photo essay, Tasha was experienced with doing curved fronts, but had never tried a straight front before, and found out the hard way that when you change the front seam, it's going to require some significant changes in the rest of the fitting process -- things she was not accustomed to doing. Her straight-front dress did not work out well because she was unable to backtrack and re-work things she'd already done in her usual way on the side seams, armhole, etc. to work with the different cut in the front. She told me she was very frustrated by this -- she wanted to show how both methods could work well but produce different shapes, not suggest that one method was "better" than the other ... but I think a lot of people come away from that site with the message that "curved front works better than straight front," which Tasha would be very quick to say is not the case. The two cuts simply produce different looks, and they do require different ways of addressing the body. I expect that there was at least this much variation in technique during the period. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 01:03:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8C537S6019478 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 01:03:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8C52S4d002813 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Sep 2004 23:02:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8C52HBh057711; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 23:02:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.fuse.net (mail-out1.fuse.net [216.68.8.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8C52EBh057635 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2004 23:02:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jemarshall@fuse.net) Received: from gx6.fuse.net ([66.42.215.165]) by smtp1.fuse.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.04 201-2131-111-106-20040729) with ESMTP id <20040912050209.OWJJ9752.smtp1.fuse.net@gx6.fuse.net> for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 01:02:09 -0400 Received: from netzero.fuse.net ([66.42.215.165]) by gx6.fuse.net (InterMail vG.1.00.00.00 201-2136-104-20040331) with ESMTP id <20040912050123.UGVJ5112.gx6.fuse.net@netzero.fuse.net> for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 01:01:23 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20040912005218.00b41300@pop.fuse.net> X-Sender: jemarshall@pop.fuse.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 00:54:04 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: "J.E. Marshall" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Extinct diseases In-Reply-To: <7d21ac1904091115244011090f@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I happen to have my small pox scar (born 1970), and my sister has hers as well (born 1974). I also remember getting my polio vax as well. As the joys of being a military brat. Jennifer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 14:11:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CIBgtp001987 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 14:11:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CIA24d027419 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 12:10:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CIA0Bh006064; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 12:10:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CI9vBi006003 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 12:09:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i8CIX8R9011474 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 14:33:08 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040912105728.00c38658@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 11:09:54 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20040912102606.026abd08@mail.frys.com> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040911124657.00baabd0@mail.katiesorchids.com> <7FBB02B3-0361-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm going to agree with that statement even though I titled the thread "extinct diseases". I read recently that a few cases of polio have shown up in eastern Africa, much to the surprise of the medical establishment. As far as I know, smallpox *is* extinct in the wild. Many others are extinct in developed countries and only show up there in travelers from 3rd world countries. I don't remember what it is, but there is some disease that has reestablished in California in the last few years, brought in by immigrants from poor countries, after decades of having been thought extinct in the US. As probably all our members live in 'developed' countries, my reference to 'extinct' really meant 'extinct in developed countries'. The purpose of the thread was to cause the younger members to reflect on the diseases that terrorized us older members but of which the younger members have little or no knowledge. Are polio vaccinations done any more? If not, polio virus could be used as a bio-terror weapon because the younger generations are not protected by vaccinations any more. Same thing with other diseases which are generally considered extinct in the developed countries. Katie At 10:27 AM 9/12/2004 -0700, you wrote: >>How many of the members don't know anything about polio or smallpox? When >>Ruthanne and I were growing up, these were *serious* (and deadly) >>concerns. These days, they exist only in laboratories. > >Problem is, every time they think some disease is extinct, they find out >it isn't. People still get polio, whooping cough, scarlet fever, >rheumatic fever, and all those other diseases the rest of us think are extinct. > CarolynKayta Barrows _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 14:22:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CIMinW002044 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 14:22:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CIM34d028447 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 12:22:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CIM1Bh012218; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 12:22:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net (smtp2.suscom.net [64.78.83.231]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CILuBi012154 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 12:21:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (smtp2.suscom.net [127.0.0.1]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0501E1CDD1B for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 14:17:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp2 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 09890-06 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 14:17:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.78.64.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id F09A71CDD0C for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 14:17:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <03dd01c498f5$4cda2230$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040911124657.00baabd0@mail.katiesorchids.com><7FBB02B3-0361-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> <5.2.0.9.0.20040912105728.00c38658@mail.katiesorchids.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases and GFDs Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 14:21:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katie Pleasance" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2004 2:09 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases Are polio vaccinations done any more? If not, polio virus > could be used as a bio-terror weapon because the younger generations are > not protected by vaccinations any more. Same thing with other diseases > which are generally considered extinct in the developed countries. > > Katie I just turned 41, and I have the classic smallpox vaccination scar on my upper arm, as does my older sister. I'm not so sure about my younger sister, who was born in 1970. But polio vaccines are still given to children. It's required to enter school, generally given as part of a "triple-threat" vaccine--diphtherica, polio, and pertussis ("whooping cough") combined into one vaccine, usually given as a series of three shots several months apart. And to make this costume related, I just found my copy of the McCalls pattern for the cotehardie (8725). It only goes up to a 14, which is the size I made up at least one baby ago and never quite finished. I tried it on, and with a few modifications, I think I can get a decent GFD out of it. I can't get to my Shire sewing nights, so I can't get anyone to do a true fitting for me. I used the pattern down to the waist, but I used four gores instead of the huge semi-circles the pattern used. I started the gores at the waist, and realize now I should have started them at the hips to get that beautiful fit. I have some mystery fabric in a subdued salmon-y color that should work nicely--cut the pattern just a bit larger, set the gores at the hips, and off I go! Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 14:27:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CIR9O8002061 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 14:27:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CIQW4d028712 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 12:26:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CIQVBh014367; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 12:26:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp814.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp814.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.170.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8CIQSBh014341 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 12:26:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net) Received: from unknown (HELO lazear1) (cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net@67.118.230.145 with login) by smtp814.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Sep 2004 18:26:27 -0000 Message-ID: <01a401c498f6$065d96b0$0701a8c0@lazear1> From: "Cabbage Rose Costumes" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.1.1.2.20040911085010.019984d8@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] What you all do with costumes Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 11:26:30 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks so much! Actually, that's not the score from the show, because we didn't want to violate the video contract. We didn't pay for rights to tape the show with any of the composer's music. But luckily we have this great kid who composed a bit of music that was suitable for the clips of the stage and costumes. Then he shot that video with scenes the director staged to recreate the feel of the show. All very technically done without any real show content! As an artist I'm a stickler for the rules, and since I happen to also be the current Pres of the Board of Directors, I won't let them video the show content. But one gets the feel of the show from a glimpse at the visuals. It's getting fabulous reviews, which I have to admit is rewarding. I think that this is the first time almost every review has mentioned both costumes and makeup. Usually, if I do my job right, no one notices the costumes because they simply set the period. But this show has no period, just a lot of Teddy colors! I thought about him the whole time I was picking out neon pink plastic for hot pants and making neon head pieces that sort of look like Byzantine sculptures, only way further out! This show was just such a stretch and so much fun to take all the period information I glean here from years of listening to you all discuss the period correct way to dress, and reading dozens of books on Byzantium/ Charlemagne, and the HRE, then I put it all into the crazy blender with a dahs of 70s color scheme (neon, hot pink, orange, green) and a 90s deconstructionist look (one-sleeved garments, unfinished edges). I did these wild sculptured breast pieces with embellished leather that I knocked off from a designer's fall showing from 01. They were like a choker with a strip down to the waist and a belt. I added random directional pieces around the body, making a corseted effect for both women and men, but the men remained shirtless. Add a matching "codpiece" and voila. Who knew leather came in neon? angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none: be able for thine enemy rather in power than use, and keep thy friend under thy own life's key: be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..." W. Shakespeare ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mari Stewart" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2004 5:51 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] What you all do with costumes > > Angela... just peeked at the site... love the concept! And now I've got > the damn score going through my head ; > > Bridgette > >>So, I'll just chime in to state that I'm still in theatrical costuming, >>just finished designing Pippin, which one would think is Charlemagne's >>Europe, but if you saw the show it's a bit more like neon Charlemagne's >>Europe (fabric choices ala Teddy) on acid... Hey, at least you can't call >>me boring. For cool visuals, there is a video (in which you can sort of >>see the costumes) at www.aclo.com. I really had a fun time with this one. >> >>Cheers, >> >>angela > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 14:27:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CIRJ10002064 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 14:27:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CCLL4d027804 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 06:21:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CCLLBh041908; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 06:21:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CCLIBh041853 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 06:21:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-8.13) id AF371881005A; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 08:21:11 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.109 ([209.131.81.109] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 12 Sep 04 12:21:07 -0000 Message-ID: <002101c498c3$f3f85780$6d5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: the word garb Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 08:28:04 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thankyou for this explanation! Best one I have seen yet re "regalia". I knew it had to be something like this. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2004 4:44 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: the word garb > The term "regalia" was chosen in about the `70 and `80s because many NAs > felt that what was worn, their traditional and dance clothing was not a > costume by Halloween definition as most of them probably only knew the term > costume in reference to Halloween and theatre (mainly Hollywood movies). My > Friend Blue Sky's father called them costumes, this was in the `50s and > `60s. He was of Mashpee descent and was usually on the Cheyenne and Lakota > Res' or introducing NA ways to non NAs. > Why "regalia", I and a few other have always wondered. > There are those that have gotten a bit rabid about it. Blue Sky is 67 years > old and a descendant of Massosoit's daughter. One of these rabid "must call > it regalia" people (looked to be 25 -30yrs old) admonished her for calling > her buckskin dress a costume and as I said it is what her father called it. > That person lost quite a few people's respect that day. > > De > > -----Original Message----- > This turn of the conversation puts me in the mind of a suitable word choice > to denote clothing of Native Americans. My brother in law (New England/ > Canadian Tribes) insisted I should use the term "regalia" in reference to > any > clothing which I was calling 'costume'. "Regalia" to me was ceremonially > connected in any other costume sense. Since the clothing I was providing for > theatrical use was 'ersatz', I objected to using his term. But he always > corrected me. I even took to using "garb" to make the difference between his > authentic clothing (antique and new) and what I was providing for other > venues, and he still insisted on "regalia". > > Kathleen > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 14:30:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CIU5LY002085 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 14:30:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CBZI4d025549 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 05:35:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CBZCBh020989; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 05:35:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CBZBBh020976 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 05:35:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 030CA2BF78 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 06:35:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p088.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.214.90]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id D527DC438 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 06:34:59 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 06:35:19 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20040912001748.02502a48@64.87.54.245> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I remember hearing a year ago and more recently that salt tablets are not being recommended anymore. Something about water retention and problems with interfering with sweating which is necessary for cooling the body down. It's late and my brain is mush. De -----Original Message----- At 01:04 PM 9/11/2004 -0700, you wrote: >Does anybody even remember seeing a *picture* of an iron lung? What a >ghastly way to live, inside a machine that does your breathing for you . Yes, I remember the iron lung as a picture in a school health class. But I do not know Sister Kenny. Who was she and what did she do as a treatment that helped your sister? <> I take salt during hot days at ren faire. I also enjoy salty foods as well (dill pickles, pretzels, olives, etc.) to help keep the body's water levels going. Not sure what all it does to me, but it really helps keep me going. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 14:46:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CIkufE002140 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 14:46:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CIkA4d000245 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 12:46:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CIk3Bh024130; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 12:46:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mailout.whidbey.net (mailout.whidbey.net [209.166.64.124]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CIk0Bi024074 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 12:46:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from andie@whidbey.com) Received: from [66.235.64.168] (helo=whidbey.com) by mail2.whidbey.net with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1C6ZMJ-0007og-Pk for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 11:45:55 -0700 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 11:45:54 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Salt: was Re: Extinct diseases Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Andrea McElwain To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040912101911.00bab060@mail.katiesorchids.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sunday, September 12, 2004, at 10:49 AM, Katie Pleasance wrote: > Now -- on to heat and salt tablets. It has been unseasonably hot here > in northern California for the last few weeks and I noticed that I've > cut down on the carbonated beverages and switched to guzzling huge > amounts of lemonade; also, I'm gobbling olives by the jar-full and > drinking the juice. I had not connected it to the heat. Looking back, > I do this every summer and never during the cooler months. Maybe my > body is telling me to replace my electrolytes! I will stock up on > pickles and gatoraid and throw away my salt tablets . > > Katie > Stocking up on pickles instead of salt tablets is an excellent idea. :) Salt tablets can indeed cause more problems than they solve, and in all but extreme cases, they really aren't needed. When you are doing strenuous activity in the heat some extra salt can be good, but it's much better to get that from regular food - which is why the waterbearers at SCA events here pass out trays of pickles and oranges as well as water. The recent Chirurgeon General (head officer of the first-aid providers) of the SCA wrote an excellent article on re-hydration not too long ago, including discussions of salt, sports drinks, etc., which I would be happy to forward to anyone who is interested. Andrea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 14:49:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CInpK8002156 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 14:49:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CInC4d000413 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 12:49:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CIn9Bh025649; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 12:49:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CIn5Bi025611 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 12:49:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i8CJCGR9019111 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 15:12:16 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040912114603.075edfa0@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 11:49:01 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance In-Reply-To: <03dd01c498f5$4cda2230$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040911124657.00baabd0@mail.katiesorchids.com> <7FBB02B3-0361-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> <5.2.0.9.0.20040912105728.00c38658@mail.katiesorchids.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases and GFDs X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have no children, therefore no grandchildren. I have little knowledge of current child-rearing practices, including such things as vaccinations. I'm pleased to see that they are still required. Katie >But polio vaccines are still given to children. It's required to enter >school, generally given as part of a "triple-threat" vaccine--diphtherica, >polio, and pertussis ("whooping cough") combined into one vaccine, usually >given as a series of three shots several months apart. >Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 14:53:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CIrtjE002168 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 14:53:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CIrD4d000746 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 12:53:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CIrABh027669; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 12:53:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from simmts8-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts8.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.166]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CIr9Bh027633 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 12:53:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([67.68.137.149]) by simmts8-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with SMTP id <20040912185126.PWRF1692.simmts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 14:51:26 -0400 Message-ID: <002401c498f9$3f86e420$cb6afea9@sherry> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <7FBB02B3-0361-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net><5.2.0.9.0.20040911124657.00baabd0@mail.katiesorchids.com> <200409112220.17291.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 14:49:32 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > On Saturday 11 September 2004 4:04 pm, Katie Pleasance wrote: > [snip] > > My little sister contracted polio in 1951 at age one year, two weeks. Those > > were the barbaric days when polio victims were basically written off to > > die. As a child, I remember the iron-lungs, but they were not yet in wide > > use. Does anybody even remember seeing a *picture* of an iron lung? What a > > ghastly way to live, inside a machine that does your breathing for you > > . > Cathy Raymond Wrote: > Yes, I saw a picture of an iron lung in an encyclopedia once. I saw a real one about two years ago, on display in the lobby of an art gallery. (on loan from the local University) It gave me a serious case of the heebie-geebies. Otherwise, I remember learning about them in elementary school, we learned in our science class about 'old' diseases. (very early 80's) Sheridan Sheridan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 15:05:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CJ5ZZL002203 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 15:05:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8C8n74d015850 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 02:49:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8C8mxBh051324; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 02:48:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web53104.mail.yahoo.com (web53104.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.207]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8C8mvBh051242 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 02:48:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from smnco37@yahoo.co.uk) Message-ID: <20040912084852.61154.qmail@web53104.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [82.112.143.155] by web53104.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 09:48:52 BST Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 09:48:52 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?julian=20wilson?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb, costume et al To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20040912001616.024cbc90@64.87.54.245> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Kimiko, [and any other interested Listers following this thread], if you would like to see photos of Gorey Castle, and our Companie "at playe"; - I recommend that - [because our own webmaster is snowed-under with his mundane job at the moment] - you go to www.greydragon.org, - subfile < "what's New" >; - subfile < "Jersey Revels" >; - there are lots of pictures of our Group, our camp, of the Castle, and of the rest of the events at our recent 3-day-long Medieval Festival held in late-July. Our Guests, Master Terafan Greydragon and his Lady, have been able to post their own pictures more quickly than our own Group's mundanely-over-worked webmaster. In Service, Julian, in "olde" Jersey, 15 miles off the French coast. Kimiko Small wrote: At 06:24 PM 9/11/2004 +0100, you wrote: >OK, I'm beginning to lect ure,soI'llstophere. >But you did ask. >Julian, >in "olde" Jersey. Yes, I did ask, and I appreciate your reply. Thanks so much for sharing. I like learning new things like this. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 15:06:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CJ613O002207 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 15:06:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CJ5L4d001408 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:05:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CJ5JBh033585; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:05:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm29.prodigy.net (ylpvm29-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CJ5ABh033515 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:05:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-95-167.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.95.167]) by ylpvm29.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CJ4vIo027824 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 15:04:57 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040912115434.024368b0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 12:04:51 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040912105728.00c38658@mail.katiesorchids.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20040912102606.026abd08@mail.frys.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040911124657.00baabd0@mail.katiesorchids.com> <7FBB02B3-0361-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I'm going to agree with that statement even though I titled the thread >"extinct diseases". I read recently that a few cases of polio have shown >up in eastern Africa, much to the surprise of the medical establishment. Extinction is forever, so we get complacent about diseases labeled as extinct. Bubonic plague is still around too, and I heard a rumor that Albuquerque, New Mexico, sees one or two cases of it every year. I was unaware that polio victims were quarantined. Was this done everywhere? A guy I used to date, born in Hawaii, had polio, and never mentioned quarantining (tho he did have lots of hospital stories). Obligatory costume content: I was born in 1949, and my smallpox vaccination scar is on the inside of my left thigh instead of on either arm. This is fortunate for me when I do historical evening dresses. I don't remember getting vaccinated. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 15:14:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CJEQ73002285 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 15:14:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CJDe4d002030 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:13:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CJDcBh038365; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:13:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm01.prodigy.net (ylpvm01-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CJDWBh038296 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:13:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-95-167.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.95.167]) by ylpvm01.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CJDQbO031305; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 15:13:26 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040912120916.0261e2e0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 12:13:20 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com, f-costume@net.indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Fwd: Solar powered jacket X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >http://www.scottevest.com/pressrelease/sev_solar/index.html Not an endorsement, only a FYI - I'm certainly not going to buy one of these. The jacket comes with photo-voltaic panels on the back, and lots of pockets in which to put your PDA, cell phone, etc. which can use the chargeable battery the jacket also comes with. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 15:17:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CJH8Tf002543 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 15:17:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CJGQ4d002176 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:16:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CJGOBh039931; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:16:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from asmtp-a063f31.pas.sa.earthlink.net (asmtp-a063f31.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.120.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CJGMBh039919 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:16:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-4.155.57.66.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([4.155.57.66] helo=HELENPINTO) by asmtp-a063f31.pas.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1C6Zpl-00045T-95 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 12:16:22 -0700 Message-ID: <033401c498fc$f8c2e800$42399b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <7FBB02B3-0361-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net><5.2.0.9.0.20040911124657.00baabd0@mail.katiesorchids.com><200409112220.17291.cathy@thyrsus.com> <002401c498f9$3f86e420$cb6afea9@sherry> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 15:16:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9efbb72bc2d9b6f8f1d20b92260d5e342d5350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.155.57.66 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On the topic of polio/iron lungs, this was on the local (Pittsburgh, PA) news website this past week: http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/team4/3421655/detail.html In the 50's, I was lucky enough to get all the immunizations (the hard way) and missed the major diseases. Other kids I knew were not so lucky. I got the immunizations for the minor diseases the traditional way- from some other kid, usually my younger brother. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 15:17:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CJHesu002560 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 15:17:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CHbf4d025358 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 11:37:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CHbeBh089940; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 11:37:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm43.prodigy.net (ylpvm43-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CHawBh089627 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 11:36:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-95-167.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.95.167]) by ylpvm43.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CHb1hb012594 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:37:02 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040912101318.02664748@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 10:15:39 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows In-Reply-To: <005f01c4980a$96d8c4e0$675183d1@rmitchellras> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] ersatz X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >'ersatz', I think this word, in the original German, means 'substitute', like the 'ersatz coffee' in WWII, which was Postum or some other non-coffee drink. It's pronounced "Air sats". CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 15:17:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CJHesw002560 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 15:17:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CHbb4d025342 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 11:37:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CHbaBh089909; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 11:37:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm43.prodigy.net (ylpvm43-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CHawBh089630 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 11:36:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-95-167.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.95.167]) by ylpvm43.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CHb1hd012594 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:37:03 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040912102606.026abd08@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 10:27:54 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040911124657.00baabd0@mail.katiesorchids.com> References: <7FBB02B3-0361-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >How many of the members don't know anything about polio or smallpox? When >Ruthanne and I were growing up, these were *serious* (and deadly) >concerns. These days, they exist only in laboratories. Problem is, every time they think some disease is extinct, they find out it isn't. People still get polio, whooping cough, scarlet fever, rheumatic fever, and all those other diseases the rest of us think are extinct. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 15:17:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CJHet0002560 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 15:17:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CHb34d025287 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 11:37:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CHb0Bh089650; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 11:37:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm43.prodigy.net (ylpvm43-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CHavBh089612 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 11:36:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-95-167.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.95.167]) by ylpvm43.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CHb1hZ012594 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:37:01 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040912092723.02518190@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 09:59:55 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: the word 'garb' (was Re: [h-cost] What you all do with costumes In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20040910174825.00b89640@postoffice8.mail.cornell .edu> References: <7FBB02B3-0361-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >And I'll take this moment to add a tiny note about one of my >personal 'teeth grinders' - The use of the word 'garb' in the SCA - >Although many will see it as a perfectly fine word - Its meaning, >especially in the SCA, is colored to mean something unreal, temporary, or >costume-like. I prefer to use the word clothing for the pieces I >make. Indeed, my efforts are not shoddy, temporary, make-do or to be >confused with theatrical clothing. Your concern is why the SCA went away from the use of the word 'costume' for what they wear. 'Garb' sounds much more like clothing than 'costume' does. I think the word 'clothing' stopped being used because a need was felt to differentiate 'mundanes', everyday clothes, from the clothes SCA people wore at their costumed events. And it's shorter too say - 'garb' is one syllable, where 'SCA clothes' comes out as four syllables. OTOH, to me everything people wear is costume. Consider: what I am wearing right now, as I type this e-mail, might someday appear in a costume book. Its exact composition can described in terms of the year in which it is worn, and my age, social class, and geographic area. It can be related to other examples in the same year, age group, social class, and geographic area, and contrasted with what my two daughters are wearing this morning (assuming they're awake). It follows certain assumptions about fashion lag. And it's not the same costume I wear for other occasions in my life (job interviews, sleeping, living history events, etc.). 100 years from now some costume historian might care about the kinds of garments I'm wearing right now, or write a thesis/costume book chapter about them, and some theatrical costume designer might be so glad they wrote it. But in the here and now my Fashion Police daughter insists (loudly and often) that my everyday-wear is all just clothes. And she doesn't say "that's not period", she says "Mom, you're not really going to wear that, are you?" or "I don't think you should wear those shoes with that outfit" or "don't wear that (fiber-artsy) jacket when you come to pick me up from school". CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 15:17:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CJHet2002560 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 15:17:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CHpq4d026192 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 11:51:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CHplBh096576; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 11:51:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CHpjBi096506 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 11:51:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i8CIEoR9007827 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 14:14:51 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040912101911.00bab060@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 10:49:58 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: [h-cost] Re: Extinct diseases In-Reply-To: <005601c498c2$e1800f40$1902a8c0@duncan> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040912000648.024c0a48@64.87.54.245> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I know the following about Sister Kenny and nothing more . Her unorthodox treatment of polio patients was greatly resented by the medical profession at the time. My mother got her nursing school training in Seattle and studied under Sister Kenny for part of her training. The treatment consisted of heating the patient in the medical version of a hot tub to relax the muscles and then repeatedly stretching the muscles with what has become known as range-of-motion exercises. Polio causes paralysis and permanent muscle contraction. The result was that the arms and legs pulled tightly against the body and then the muscles froze, incapable of un-contracting. That is, if they chest muscles were still capable of working (hence the use of the "iron lung", which used a partial vacuum to expand the chest, filling the lungs with air, then releasing the partial vacuum, letting the weight of the body [or maybe it was a positive pressure] force the air out of the lungs. Before the iron lung, most polio patients suffocated to death.) Nikki was paralyzed everywhere except that she could move her head and one arm and her chest *slightly*. Because of the Sister Kenny treatment, she now is now paralyzed nowhere. The only reminder of the polio is that one leg is shorter than the other and that some muscles never fully developed, so she walks with a limp and lacks arm muscle strength. Somehow she never needed the iron lung, though she used body braces and leg braces and crutches throughout her childhood. After a mental breakdown following her 12th reconstructive surgery (when she was a teenager), my parents decided that walking with a limp was okay and at last the endless surgeries and stays in the hospital ended. Oh, yeah, and we were quarantined. The local police posted the house with notices that we could not leave and that nobody could enter. Mom called the neighbors, who bought food and left it on the doorstep, where Mom left money. I have no idea how Daddy was able to work. Probably he wasn't. Eventually the quarantine ended and life was allowed to return to a semblance of normality. People today have no idea of the terror that polio put in everybody, especially parents, before the Salk and Sabine vaccines. I remember getting a smallpox vaccination in the early 70s so that I could travel overseas. As I remember, it was required by the State Department and I got the shots when I got my passport. Now -- on to heat and salt tablets. It has been unseasonably hot here in northern California for the last few weeks and I noticed that I've cut down on the carbonated beverages and switched to guzzling huge amounts of lemonade; also, I'm gobbling olives by the jar-full and drinking the juice. I had not connected it to the heat. Looking back, I do this every summer and never during the cooler months. Maybe my body is telling me to replace my electrolytes! I will stock up on pickles and gatoraid and throw away my salt tablets . Katie >Kate wrote: >Sister Kenny did a form of physical therapy combined with heat, if I >remember correctly. Pretty much unheard of at the time. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 15:21:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CJLN8M002588 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 15:21:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CJKg4d002409 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:20:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CJKfBh042142; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:20:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav29.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.86]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CJKQBh041975 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:20:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 12:20:20 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by bay9-dav29.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:20:20 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <7FBB02B3-0361-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> <5.2.1.1.2.20040910174825.00b89640@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Subject: The word garb was: Re: [h-cost] What you all do with costumes Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 15:20:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Sep 2004 19:20:20.0882 (UTC) FILETIME=[8B8FC720:01C498FD] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > And I'll take this moment to add a tiny note about one of my > personal 'teeth grinders' - The use of the word 'garb' in the SCA - > Although many will see it as a perfectly fine word - Its meaning, > especially in the SCA, is colored to mean something unreal, temporary, or > costume-like. I prefer to use the word clothing for the pieces I > make. Indeed, my efforts are not shoddy, temporary, make-do or to be > confused with theatrical clothing. Many people in the SCA wear just that: costumes. I made a couple of quick pieces to wear when camping, but I'm going more and more towards real clothing. What I make are not costumes anymore. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 15:22:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CJMPQg002595 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 15:22:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CJLm4d002541 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:21:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CJLlBh042723; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:21:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from simmts6-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts6.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.164]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CJLgBh042686 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:21:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([67.68.137.149]) by simmts6-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with SMTP id <20040912192125.WBES1635.simmts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 15:21:25 -0400 Message-ID: <007301c498fd$44954e80$cb6afea9@sherry> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <7FBB02B3-0361-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> <4.3.1.2.20040912102606.026abd08@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 15:18:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" > > >How many of the members don't know anything about polio or smallpox? When > >Ruthanne and I were growing up, these were *serious* (and deadly) > >concerns. These days, they exist only in laboratories. > > Problem is, every time they think some disease is extinct, they find out it > isn't. People still get polio, whooping cough, scarlet fever, rheumatic > fever, and all those other diseases the rest of us think are extinct. A friend of mine was shocked when I mentioned to her that The Plague is still around, usually a few cases show up around the world each year. I also had a co-worker very upset at having to get shots for malaria the last time she traveled, she had thought it was an 'old' disease. Speaking of malaria, didja know you can still get tonic with Quinine (sp?) in it? (Hmm, actually I think someone on this list was just talking about that...) A friend of mine who was very into British military history told me that it was easier to get the medication into their gin and tonics than to get the guys to remember to take it as a pill. Sounds like good psychology to me. :-) Kinda like those cough syrup freezer pops they have for kids now.. Sheridan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 15:23:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CJN0Ic002602 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 15:23:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CJMO4d002648 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:22:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CJMMBh043132; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:22:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CJLkBi042702 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:21:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i8CJitR9025911 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 15:44:56 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040912121017.0763f578@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 12:21:40 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20040912115434.024368b0@mail.frys.com> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040912105728.00c38658@mail.katiesorchids.com> <4.3.1.2.20040912102606.026abd08@mail.frys.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040911124657.00baabd0@mail.katiesorchids.com> <7FBB02B3-0361-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Extinction is forever, so we get complacent about diseases labeled as >extinct. Bubonic plague is still around too, and I heard a rumor that >Albuquerque, New Mexico, sees one or two cases of it every year. Bubonic and/or pneumonic plague is endemic in much of the mountainous regions in eastern California. It's carried by the ground squirrels. (My Lord Husband is in the Sierras this weekend, cutting firewood on a friend's property -- there are ground squirrels *everywhere!*) You don't hear about it because the health departments know about it and are speedy in dealing with any cases that show up. I think it might be considered "undesirable publicity" if it was better known how common it is in the local wildlife. I assume that at least one form of plague is endemic in most of the western US. >I was unaware that polio victims were quarantined. Was this done >everywhere? A guy I used to date, born in Hawaii, had polio, and never >mentioned quarantining (tho he did have lots of hospital stories). We lived in Cheyenne, Wyoming at the time. In that location, at that time, polio cases were quarantined. I don't about elsewhere / elsewhen. Katie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 15:31:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CJVHSM002646 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 15:31:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CJUf4d003276 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:30:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CJUeBh047400; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:30:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CJUcBh047368 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:30:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.52] (p36.3c01.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.52]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i8CJTF620453 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:29:15 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040912121017.0763f578@mail.katiesorchids.com> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040912105728.00c38658@mail.katiesorchids.com> <4.3.1.2.20040912102606.026abd08@mail.frys.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040911124657.00baabd0@mail.katiesorchids.com> <7FBB02B3-0361-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> <5.2.0.9.0.20040912121017.0763f578@mail.katiesorchids.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:34:31 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Why are we getting into off-topic areas? If we want to do so, then let's discuss something like politics! ;-) Anyone up for that? Sylrog, running for virtual cover _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 15:40:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CJeTKA010582 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 15:40:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CJdm4d003710 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:39:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CJdlBh051885; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:39:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CJdgBi051812 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:39:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i8CK2mR9030188 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 16:02:49 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040912122529.0764a618@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 12:39:33 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases In-Reply-To: <033401c498fc$f8c2e800$42399b04@HELENPINTO> References: <7FBB02B3-0361-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> <5.2.0.9.0.20040911124657.00baabd0@mail.katiesorchids.com> <200409112220.17291.cathy@thyrsus.com> <002401c498f9$3f86e420$cb6afea9@sherry> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a way, this exemplifies a point that I wanted to make -- modern society is so dependant on technology that a failure of even a part of technology (such as discontinuance of manufacturing parts for iron lungs) can mean a death sentence to those who are dependant on them and don't have a way to cope without them. It's not just in medicine but in things like power transmission - what happens if some terrorist destroys the factory that makes a chip that is vital to the computers that control the power networks? Many of the young people who grew up with computers and cell phones, etc. have no way of coping if things get bad, such as an epidemic. We are seeing examples of this in Florida right now. The cell phones go out of service and communication ends up depending on amateur radio hobbyists, who are themselves becoming a dying breed. We just bought retirement land and our house will have solar cells on the roof and a windmill. If the local power goes down (which frequently happens in rural areas throughout the country) we won't even notice. What does this have to do with costuming? Costumers are do-it-yourself-type-people and probably are involved in other forms of personal independence in addition to being able to make their own clothes . I think that the most important aspect of the SCA is that SCA members are doers, investigating and learning skills forgotten by the rest of modern society. Katie At 03:16 PM 9/12/2004 -0400, you wrote: >On the topic of polio/iron lungs, this was on the local (Pittsburgh, PA) >news website this past week: >http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/team4/3421655/detail.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 15:52:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CJqO5P010611 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 15:52:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CJpf4d004459 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:51:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CJpaBh057823; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:51:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CJpZBh057691 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:51:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bea4.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.164]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 640BE5EE06B for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 21:51:21 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001101c49901$f4cdedd0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 21:51:55 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] raised/stumpwork flowers. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Talking about other and better things than extinct deseases. While working on the courtdress i have only had my mind thinking about the next projekt i am starting soon. The original dress is in the huge costume book from Kyoto, not Revolution, but the other one. It is a large pannier dres with pleated ruches and small bouques of flowers spread along the ruches. Originally made with chenille threads. I have ordered a large skein of undyed silk chenille, and i want to dye it in some colours that will suit the pale yellow silk taffeta. Then i have ordered some embroidery books about stumpwork so that i can get some ideas to make 3-dimensional flowers of the chenille. I was thinking about making the flowerleaves by outlining with millinery wire and then weave the chenille back and forth, but for the flowers i am not sure! Long live Amazon.com next week i will have the books! Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 15:52:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CJqWtV010614 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 15:52:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CJlL63004148 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:51:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CJatBh050369; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:36:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav14.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CJaoBh050273 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:36:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 12:36:45 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by bay9-dav14.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:36:44 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040910144256.00b14ae8@64.87.54.245> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Surviving Faire & re-enactments in Court Costume, Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 15:31:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Sep 2004 19:36:45.0006 (UTC) FILETIME=[D6252EE0:01C498FF] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Why aren't faires held indoors where it is cooler? The cost of renting a > large enough arena and paying for the A/C, especially on the tight budgets > most faire producers have. SCA events tend to be smaller (often much smaller), so it's easier to hold them inside. Plus, they're not intended for the general public - only the people willing to wear a costume will participate :-) But around here in Montreal, Canada, it's almost impossible to hold an event outside in the winter, or even in the Fall or early Spring. Events are usually held outside from May to September, but I personnally refuse to camp any earlier than mid-June and any later than early September, because the nights get too cold (close to freezing). There is often an indoors feast hall where we go in the evening. Winter events are always held inside, although the fighting and fencing, and sometimes archery, will occasionnaly move outside, if there's room for it and if there's not too much snow on the ground. That way, you keep the fighters cool and the non-fighters comfortably warm :-) We often rent school gyms, scout camps or church basements. When we organized Crown Tourney, we got a huge warehouse on a nearby military base because several members of the local group were in the military. Some medieval RPG groups here built longhouse-like halls so they could organize events. We sometimes rent those too for the events. But with the budget we have, we make do with whatever we can find. You learn not to see what's modern, after a while. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 15:59:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CJxWGi010642 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 15:59:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CJwk4d005002 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:58:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CJwfBh061025; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:58:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav15.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.119]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CJwbBh060959 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:58:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 12:58:32 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by bay9-dav15.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:58:32 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <091120042350.13727.41438F590003064F0000359F2200745672010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] fwd: Samurai Costume Search, day 6... (fwd) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 15:53:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Sep 2004 19:58:32.0263 (UTC) FILETIME=[E154C570:01C49902] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I know Folwear have nice patterns for that kind of thing (Japanese Hakama & Kataginu, among others). That's probably not going to help you much, but that's all I can suggest. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Costume Historical" Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2004 7:50 PM Subject: [h-cost] fwd: Samurai Costume Search, day 6... (fwd) > Any one? > > > -- > Slan go foill > Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri > Emer's Needle Wares > > > -------------- Forwarded Message: -------------- > From: "Olaf M." > To: antir-costumers@antir.sca.org > Subject: [antir-costumers] Samurai Costume Search, day 6... > Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 23:25:19 +0000 > > Hi, I'm looking for a Samurai outfit for my friends. They run a sketch > comedy tv show here in the seattle area, and one of the bits for the > upcoming episode (a clever kurosawa-parody) requires a convincing Samurai > outfit and Ninja outfit. > > The ninja is pretty easy to take care of, but I'm having a tough time > finding anything samurai-ey. Someone (from Craigslist) recommended your > group, I'm not sure what it is you do, but I'm kinda shotgunning this > request to see if I can find anyone who knows someone who knows someone... > and so on. > > So, if you know someone or are someone who owns/knows where to get a samurai > outfit, please shoot me an email at Rabidium@hotmail.com or call me at > 206-Mud-Hatt (no joke) and fill me in. Tragically the show has no budget, so > I can't pay, but you will get a credit, and the satisfaction of doing > something good for some funny guys. If you require other compensation that > isn't cash, maybe one of us can help you do something. > Thanks in advance for your help! > -Olaf > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > Honourably yours, > The Irreverend Olaf Malachowski > (Accredited DcR., Phd, F.A.C.C.R.; and > N.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A. (National Association for the > Advancement of Anglo, African, Asian and Assorted > Agnostic or Atheistic Americans.) Founding Member) > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > _________________________________________________________________ > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! > hthttp://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: antir-costumers-unsubscribe@antir.sca.org > For additional commands, e-mail: antir-costumers-help@antir.sca.org > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 16:07:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CK7F2Y010731 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 16:07:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CK6Q4d005576 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 14:06:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CK6OBh064750; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 14:06:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CK6MBh064731 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 14:06:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 588682B482 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 15:06:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p542.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.213.35]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 4B7B3D3F0 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 15:06:21 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: The word garb was: Re: [h-cost] What you all do with costumes Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 15:06:42 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Costume seems to invoke now a days, pictures of Halloween, theatre throw together, cheap fabrics, etc. "costume" use to mean anything that is not worn normally everyday, plus it did not denote the quality of the sewing and materials. What we wear everyday will on down the line become labeled as costume [and a little later retro] So no matter how well you sew your kirtle, sideless, plastron.. you are still making a costume. Costume originated from consuetumen custom. Doublet of custom. De -----Original Message----- Many people in the SCA wear just that: costumes. I made a couple of quick pieces to wear when camping, but I'm going more and more towards real clothing. What I make are not costumes anymore. __________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 16:15:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CKFDe2010822 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 16:15:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CKEd4d006244 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 14:14:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CKEbBh068993; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 14:14:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CKEZBh068970 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 14:14:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lilinah@earthlink.net) Received: from user-2inja13.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.121.168.35]) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1C6ak6-0006Pz-00 for h-costume@net.indra.com; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:14:34 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:15:20 -0700 To: h-costume@net.indra.com From: lilinah@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extinct diseases Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Polio is FAR from extinct. There is an epidemic raging in Africa right now. It was almost under control, but in the northern Muslim states of Nigeria, religious men began telling mothers not to allow their children to be vaccinated because the vaccine was part of a global plot to sterilize Muslims and this was taken up by the local state governments who BANNED the vaccine. So there have been hundreds of cases in Nigeria. Not only that, but the outbreak of polio spread to neighboring countries. Over the past 12 months, TEN African countries that had been free of the disease for several years now have recorded cases of polio traceable to northern Nigeria. The most recently infected country is Sudan, considerably to the east of Nigeria, which recorded a case in the Darfur region where there are millions of refugees fleeing government supported genocide. Apparently people in the national government of Nigeria finally convinced the government of the state of Kano to begin the vaccination process again - they are importing vaccine from Indonesia, the world's most populous Muslim country. But of course it's too late for those who died or are now permanently crippled. There are six countries in the world still have endemic, freely circulating, polio virus in their populations - Nigeria, India, Pakistan, Niger, Afghanistan and Egypt. Polio is not yet extinct. I have a friend who is Indian who got polio as a child - i think he's about 40 - and he was from an educated middle class family. Sorry no costume content. Anahita _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 16:18:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CKIVKo010835 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 16:18:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CKHp4d006409 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 14:17:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CKHnBh070554; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 14:17:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CKHkBi070522 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 14:17:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i8CKevR9006546 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 16:40:58 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040912124203.0764a4c0@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:17:41 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases; political threads In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040912121017.0763f578@mail.katiesorchids.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040912105728.00c38658@mail.katiesorchids.com> <4.3.1.2.20040912102606.026abd08@mail.frys.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040911124657.00baabd0@mail.katiesorchids.com> <7FBB02B3-0361-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> <5.2.0.9.0.20040912121017.0763f578@mail.katiesorchids.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I noticed that this list usually has an off-topic topic running at any particular time, in addition to the garb-related topics. So long as it doesn't get out of hand, people seem to find it enjoyable. If we had several such topics going at the same time, I think it would be a problem; also, if it dominated the list in detriment to other topics, it would be a problem. I have a feeling that by tomorrow afternoon, it will have burned itself out. If it doesn't die on it's own, Bice will tell us to knock-it-off, but I don't think that will be necessary. Regarding politics - political threads too often turn into flame wars. I was a military translator in Vietnam for 27 months (Kerry only served 4 and a half), working for Civil Operations and Rural Development, a sub-agency of the US State Department. I have more medals (yeah, there were quite a few women who served in 'Nam, mostly nurses and finance personnel and a few translators like me and a few of us got medals for risky behaviour) than Mr. Kerry (my Bronze Star equals his Bronze Star and my Cross of Gallantry from the Vietnamese government outranks his Silver Star). I came home 6 months after his public accusation that I and my comrades were out-of-control baby-killers and less than 3 months before Da Nang (where I worked most of the time) was over-run by the North Vietnamese. A lot of my Vietnamese friends were summarily shot or ended up in "re-education" camps. Have you ever been spit upon for giving a few years of your life for your country? Do your really want a political discussion with somebody who broke down in church during the sermon this last Fourth of July because the minister was reminding the congregation to support our people in military service, regardless of what you think of the politics that put them at risk, and I remembered the disgraceful way that I and my fellow veterans were treated when we came home? Do you really want to know what I think of Mr. Kerry? Do you *really* want a political thread on this list??? My apologies to anybody that the preceding paragraphs might offend. I will not respond on the list to any posting that results to this posting. I do NOT intend it to begin a political thread. I don't have anything garb-related to say right now, but if you bring up an on-topic topic, it might be something that I'd want to respond to ... Katie >Why are we getting into off-topic areas? If we want to do so, then let's >discuss something like politics! ;-) Anyone up for that? >Sylrog, running for virtual cover _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 16:31:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CKVXn7010886 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 16:31:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CKUt4d007258 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 14:30:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CKUqBh076697; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 14:30:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CKUoBh076675 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 14:30:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.177] (p17.3c04.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.177]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i8CKTS623426 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 14:29:28 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040912124203.0764a4c0@mail.katiesorchids.com> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040912121017.0763f578@mail.katiesorchids.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040912105728.00c38658@mail.katiesorchids.com> <4.3.1.2.20040912102606.026abd08@mail.frys.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040911124657.00baabd0@mail.katiesorchids.com> <7FBB02B3-0361-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> <5.2.0.9.0.20040912121017.0763f578@mail.katiesorchids.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040912124203.0764a4c0@mail.katiesorchids.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <2D8B803C-04FB-11D9-AF5F-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases; political threads Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 14:34:43 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I wouldnt mind a political thread but my point in mentioning it was just to reassert again that this is supposed to be a historical costume list and I was getting tired of discussion about diseases, which dont seem to have anything to do with the subject. If we're going off-topic, I'd rather it was political in nature, since I think this election may be the most important one of my lifetime and more worthy of discussion than ancient diseases. But I'm not going to use this as a political platform. I did that once before in a fit of desperation about a year and a half ago (maybe not with this list-I dont recall) and I got flamed up the wazoo. Sylrog On Sep 12, 2004, at 2:17 PM, Katie Pleasance wrote: > > I was a military translator in Vietnam for 27 months (Kerry only > served 4 and a half), working for Civil Operations and Rural > Development, a sub-agency of the US State Department. I have more > medals (yeah, there were quite a few women who served in 'Nam, mostly > nurses and finance personnel and a few translators like me and a few > of us got medals for risky behaviour) than Mr. Kerry (my Bronze Star > equals his Bronze Star and my Cross of Gallantry from the Vietnamese > government outranks his Silver Star). I came home 6 months after his > public accusation that I and my comrades were out-of-control > baby-killers and less than 3 months before Da Nang (where I worked > most of the time) was over-run by the North Vietnamese. A lot of my > Vietnamese friends were summarily shot or ended up in "re-education" > camps. Have you ever been spit upon for giving a few years of your > life for your country? Do your really want a political discussion with > somebody who broke down in church during the sermon this last Fourth > of July because the minister was reminding the congregation to support > our people in military service, regardless of what you think of the > politics that put them at risk, and I remembered the disgraceful way > that I and my fellow veterans were treated when we came home? Do you > really want to know what I think of Mr. Kerry? > > Do you *really* want a political thread on this list??? > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 16:41:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CKfNsk010953 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 16:41:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CKeh4d008059 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 14:40:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CKegBh081317; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 14:40:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CKeeBh081290 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 14:40:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.154] (pm5-154.eos.net [205.133.149.154]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i8CKeYvK011655 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 16:40:34 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 16:37:05 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200409121801.i8CI1fBi001771@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: extinct diseases X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO on 9/12/04 Katya wrote: > People still get polio, whooping cough, scarlet fever, rheumatic > fever, and all those other diseases the rest of us think are extinct. Who thinks those diseases are extinct? They are far from extinct even in the US, except polio. My uncle had polio as a small child. He had to go to a special hospital, several hours from home. His family was poor and could only visit him once a month. It was a Shriner's hospital (are there Shriners in Europe? They're a Masonic group) and it was free. Now all the Shriner polio hospitals are burn hospitals, and they still treat people for free. I always donate money to the Shriners, because of that. Anyway, my uncle had to have a really awful operation to shorten one of his legs, because the other one had been shortened by polio. And today many people who had polio when they were young are getting new muscle problems related to the disease. Anyway, my mother remembers vividly not being allowed to swim in the summers. Nobody knew how polio was transmitted, that was why it was so scary. The odd thing is that now we know that pretty much everyone got polio, but that something like 95% of people had no symptoms, and of those who did have symptoms, only something like 5% had severe symptoms (paralysis, etc.). There's a wonderful PBS program on the disease, I'm sure it's still available. I think some people still do live in iron lungs. Not many, but a couple are left. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 16:55:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CKt38L011110 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 16:55:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CKsM4d008840 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 14:54:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CKsHBh087392; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 14:54:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8CKsEBh087328 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 14:54:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m08.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABAWKP4XAV5FFJ2 for (sender ); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:53:41 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OgzHpn+JM0Lhk8Z3yjyrRgw= Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id J7CVRYUC; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:52:46 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:25:17 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases Message-ID: <20040912.135209.1760.3.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-2,5-6,10-26 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-ContentStamp: 9:4:3702009677 X-MAIL-INFO: 355e63dbf79a2a0f2a3ade4f9af3733a93dbfedb5bc3476a9af3cbee431f2b4e3e2e4ea7a73ee3e3cfe357c7ce8e03bb773f330713339f9f072a2a1a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Speaking of malaria, didja know you can still get tonic with Quinine > (sp?) in it? Yep. :) Read the labels. Schwepps used to make a lovely drink called Bitter Lemon that also had quinine in it, but I don't know if it's available anymore. Quinine pills are easy to pack. Also, if you're the sort who gets leg and foot cramps, try quinine. It's the active ingredient in all those pricey leg cramp OTC meds. You may have to ask your pharmacist for quinine and perhaps need a prescription, but it's cheap, and extremely effective. Arlys (Hmm, actually I think someone on this list was just talking > about > that...) A friend of mine who was very into British military history > told me > that it was easier to get the medication into their gin and tonics > than to > get the guys to remember to take it as a pill. Sounds like good > psychology > to me. :-) Kinda like those cough syrup freezer pops they have for > kids > now.. ________________________________________________________________ Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 17:06:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CL6OSV011217 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 17:06:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CJMx4d002685 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:22:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CJMwBh043465; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:22:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav19.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CJMKBh043036 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:22:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 12:22:15 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by bay9-dav19.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:22:15 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <091020042216.393.414227C0000219D5000001892200750784010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Garb in cold/wet weather Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 15:22:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Sep 2004 19:22:15.0412 (UTC) FILETIME=[CFD3AB40:01C498FD] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Greetings! Yes I agree wool is one of my favorite fibers to work with for all garb except the underwear (where I use linen). The correct weight of wool on even a hot summer day is better than *any* synthetic! No matter how pretty the fabric design of the sythetic fabric, it does not even begin to replace the comfort and breatheablility of the wool. And a very thin wool will be cooler than almost any other fiber, because it breathes so well, but also because I find that it absorbs the heat from the sun and keeps it on the surface. You don't feel the heat on your skin quite so much. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 17:37:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CLbofh011447 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 17:37:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CGSn4d020539 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 10:28:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CGSlBh054914; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 10:28:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8CGSjBh054844 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 10:28:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m08.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABAWJ8J7AJPEVSS for (sender ); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 09:28:13 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OuwiMvI0xvPoZUFxqEVH2lc= Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id J7CELQQZ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 09:27:45 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 07:47:38 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Salt: was OT: Extinct diseases Message-ID: <20040912.092701.1736.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-15 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-ContentStamp: 6:3:397909770 X-MAIL-INFO: 0f199d7455047d647d79250d04f5b979bd74a07460a1b00504f501912dd050b1fda4b16565fd9999f499ad3d2095a989dd6dedc430ed4545c47d7d85 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The SCA's had warnings about use of salt tablets for years. the problem was that people were overusing them, and getting sick as a result. Water, sports drinks, and pickles are all highly recommended. Arlys On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 06:35:19 -0500 "otsisto" writes: > I remember hearing a year ago and more recently that salt tablets are > not > being recommended anymore. Something about water retention and > problems with > interfering with sweating which is necessary for cooling the body > down. > It's late and my brain is mush. > > De ________________________________________________________________ Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 17:52:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CLqvAm011658 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 17:52:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CLpa4d012752 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 15:51:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CLpSBh014194; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 15:51:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com (imo-d23.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CLpQBh014148 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 15:51:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.4.) id 6.1ea.2a76bfaa (4206) for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 17:51:14 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <1ea.2a76bfaa.2e761ed1@aol.com> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 17:51:13 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases; political threads To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5031 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/12/2004 4:18:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, Katie@katiesorchids.com writes: If we want to do so, then let's >discuss something like politics! ;-) Anyone up for that? >Sylrog, running for virtual cover Lord, no! Are our memories so short? Our last go-round, we had to get the moderator to intervene. It got really ugly. There are plenty of other venues for those sorts of comments, anyway. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 18:05:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CM57vf011770 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 18:05:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CM4N4d013570 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 16:04:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CM4JBh020260; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 16:04:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CM4HBh020237 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 16:04:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24270 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 17:11:20 -0500 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 17:11:19 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040912121017.0763f578@mail.katiesorchids.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sun, 12 Sep 2004, Katie Pleasance wrote: > Bubonic and/or pneumonic plague is endemic in much of the mountainous > regions in eastern California. It's carried by the ground squirrels... > You don't hear about it because the health departments know about it > and are speedy in dealing with any cases that show up. I think it > might be considered "undesirable publicity" if it was better known how > common it is in the local wildlife. I assume that at least one form of > plague is endemic in most of the western US. Well, not an issue of publicity. Locals -- particularly hunters -- know about the threat, and should know how to avoid it. It's just not that big a deal, because today plague is (1) curable with antibiotics, and (2) really not that contagious. It is endemic in ground squirrels, prairie dogs, and a variety of other rodent populations around the world, pretty much everywhere except Western Europe. (Funny thing, that.) Bubonic and pneumonic plague are the same disease. If the bacterium, Yersinia pestis, infects you through the bloodstream (e.g. via a bite from an infected rodent, or if you handle the tissues of an infected rodent and have a cut on your skin, or if your pet cat feasts on an infected rodent and then scratches you), you get bubonic plague. If Y. pestis infects you through the air, you get the faster-killing pneumonic plague. This can occur if someone reaches the late stages of the disease, where there's enough bacteria in his lungs for it to be spread via airborne droplets when he coughs. Otherwise, live Y. pestis isn't ordinarily airborne. So, the first case in any outbreak is bubonic. Today, these cases are treated long before the victim reaches the infectious-coughing stage. So, no pneumonic cases. There's an occasional septicemic case (the fastest-killing version, but also bloodborne). Those, I believe, account for the extremely rare plague deaths in this country. The real concern with plague today is its potential for use in bioterrorism. If someone can figure out how to to spray a plague-infected mist over a populated area, many people breathing it would get pneumonic plague, which kills within a few days and is highly contagious because it starts out in the lungs. My brother and sister-in-law, who are medical microbiologists, have had a contract to do plague research in the last couple of years because of this concern. How do I know all this? Because my day job is as a medical editor. Since I also have a specialty in medieval history, I seem to be the person who gets called when someone needs an article done on the medical history of plague. Nice when my two specialties intersect like that. --Robin who really truly was trying to resist contributing to an off-topic thread _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 18:10:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CMAwHU011816 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 18:10:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CMAP4d013949 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 16:10:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CMAOBh023062; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 16:10:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CMAMBh023029 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 16:10:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24327 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 17:17:27 -0500 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 17:17:26 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases and GFDs In-Reply-To: <03dd01c498f5$4cda2230$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sun, 12 Sep 2004, Dianne & Greg Stucki wrote: > But polio vaccines are still given to children. It's required to enter > school, generally given as part of a "triple-threat" > vaccine--diphtherica, polio, and pertussis ("whooping cough") combined > into one vaccine, usually given as a series of three shots several > months apart. You're thinking of the diphtheria-pertussis-tetanus combo. Polio is given separately, usually orally. > And to make this costume related, I just found my copy of the McCalls > pattern for the cotehardie (8725). It only goes up to a 14, which is > the size I made up at least one baby ago and never quite finished. I > tried it on, and with a few modifications, I think I can get a decent > GFD out of it. I can't get to my Shire sewing nights, so I can't get > anyone to do a true fitting for me. I used the pattern down to the > waist, but I used four gores instead of the huge semi-circles the > pattern used. I started the gores at the waist, and realize now I > should have started them at the hips to get that beautiful fit. I have > some mystery fabric in a subdued salmon-y color that should work > nicely--cut the pattern just a bit larger, set the gores at the hips, > and off I go! Keep the gores at the waist! You'll find that the visual waist on the dress will be higher than your natural waist, so they won't look too high. The gores will allow for a gradual expansion that will give you a nice sloping tummy and leave sufficient room for the hips. If you don't start the gores till the hips, you won't have enough expansion quickly enough to accommodate the increased width at the hips. In wear, the dress will slide up in the area between your waist and hips, as it seeks a way to lie comfortably on your body. Start the back gore, if you have one, right at the small of the back. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 18:18:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CMIsVv011884 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 18:18:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CMIH4d014624 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 16:18:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CMIFBh027161; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 16:18:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CMIDBh027146 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 16:18:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24396 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 17:25:18 -0500 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 17:25:16 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases; political threads In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040912124203.0764a4c0@mail.katiesorchids.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sun, 12 Sep 2004, Katie Pleasance wrote: > I noticed that this list usually has an off-topic topic running at any > particular time, in addition to the garb-related topics. So long as it > doesn't get out of hand, people seem to find it enjoyable. If we had > several such topics going at the same time, I think it would be a > problem; also, if it dominated the list in detriment to other topics, > it would be a problem. I have a feeling that by tomorrow afternoon, it > will have burned itself out. If it doesn't die on it's own, Bice will > tell us to knock-it-off, but I don't think that will be necessary. Is Bice even on this list? Unless there's been a change, I don't believe she is a moderator. The owner of this list is Elizabeth Lear, who does not post often but does effectively use her position to settle down the extremely rare flame wars, maybe once every year or two. I don't mind the occasional off-topic conversations that occur as natural "drift" from existing threads, but I would personally appreciate it if people wouldn't *start* off-topic threads. I have just posted to the "diseases" thread and now wish I hadn't; it's a topic I have some knowledge of and so felt compelled to provide some factual information. But it really doesn't belong here. If anyone insists on starting a political thread here, I will sign off till someone tells me it's over. I get enough of that on other lists, and I would hate to see something that divisive introduced here, where we have an international constituency. I am quite happy *not* knowing the political leanings of my listmates. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 18:28:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CMSo1W011976 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 18:28:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CMS44d015344 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 16:28:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CMS3Bh031387; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 16:28:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from granger.mail.mindspring.net (granger.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CMS1Bh031344 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 16:28:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kerowyn@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-4.245.78.15.dial1.stlouis1.level3.net ([4.245.78.15] helo=Dan) by granger.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1C6cpC-0007lh-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 18:27:58 -0400 Message-ID: <01b201c49918$9df10620$0f4ef504@Dan> From: "Genie" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 17:34:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] re:extinct diseases X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i8CMSo1W011976 Status: RO I have a smallpox scar on my right shoulder from the vaccination. And I remember in grade school being bussed to a clinic to receive the poli vaccination, no sugar cubes, shots for us. Funny thing, one of my younger sister's smallpox vaccination did not "take". Twice they gave it to her and no scab/scar ever appeared. She had a natural immunity. who elese knows that the smallpox vaccine was developed from something called cowpox? Snow fallen on snow, and this evening, the full moon of November Basho _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 18:38:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CMcakq012205 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 18:38:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CMc04d015926 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 16:38:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CMbxBh035812; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 16:37:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CMbuBi035796 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 16:37:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i8CN1AR9004197 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:01:11 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040912153557.075aa2a8@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 15:37:52 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases; political threads In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040912124203.0764a4c0@mail.katiesorchids.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My apologies, I am on several lists and she is one of the moderators of one of them and is usually the one who reins in the off-topic topics when they get out of hand. Katie >Is Bice even on this list? Unless there's been a change, I don't believe >she is a moderator. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 18:41:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CMfXGM012259 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 18:41:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CFYU4d017643 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 09:34:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CFYLBh028686; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 09:34:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail9.mdx.safepages.com (mail9.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.24]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CFYJBh028672 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 09:34:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail9.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id C58AD182EC4; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 15:34:17 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust23.tnt1.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.148.23]) by mail9.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 7674F182EC2 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 15:34:09 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <021101c498dd$f69d8810$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] GFD fitting question Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 10:34:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A photo-heavy instructional for the straightfront method would be handy, though, whoever winds up doing it. http://www.cottesimple.com is a widely used resource already--I've seen it posted all over the place--but it's incomplete! (No offense meant to Tasha; I'm sure she'd agree.) And with a new baby... One of the things on my long to-do list is a site detailing the steps to a side-front seamed mid & late 15thC fitted undergown; the first step to developing a pattern is a fitted 4-panel to pinch into shape. It would be wonderful if I could point to an already complete set of instructions for both styles rather than duplicating the work. -E _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 18:45:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CMfXGO012259 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 18:45:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CEoE4d015206 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 08:50:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CEoDBh008256; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 08:50:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail5.mdx.safepages.com (mail5.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CEoABh008211 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 08:50:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail5.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id D6CDB1CBB8B; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 14:50:08 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust23.tnt1.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.148.23]) by mail5.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 8D8C81CBBAA for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 14:49:42 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <01f301c498d7$bca83f70$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040912135011.GIWA8960.out008.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] GFD fitting question Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 09:49:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: > So, do you ever plan to do a photo essay on your method > of fitting the straight front seam? It would be really helpful. :-) *cough* I have a nice digital camera... =} -E _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 18:45:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CMfXGQ012259 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 18:45:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CEm74d015126 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 08:48:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CEm4Bh007267; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 08:48:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CEm1Bh007235 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 08:48:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21646 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 09:55:05 -0500 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 09:55:03 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Chassidim In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20040912002247.00b193d0@64.87.54.245> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sun, 12 Sep 2004, Kimiko Small wrote: > At 08:57 AM 9/11/2004 -0400, you wrote: > >While I'm pretending to be a dictionary, I will answer the question about > >the word "Chassidic," which I didn't see answered. > > Thanks for your answer. I had heard of Hassidic, but not Chassidic, and > didn't know they were the same or similar. And while I do have a few Jewish > friends, none of them are Orthodox. And most Orthodox are *not* Hasidic! You can usually tell a Hasid on sight from the clothing, but that's not true of most Orthodox Jews. I think many people assume all Orthodox people are Hasids because that's what they're used to seeing on TV pointed out as "Orthodox Jews." --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 18:45:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CMfXGS012259 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 18:45:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CEux4d015549 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 08:56:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CEuwBh011303; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 08:56:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CEuuBh011278 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 08:56:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21723 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 10:04:00 -0500 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 10:03:59 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] GFD fitting question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A post script to what I just wrote: > I do outline a general sequence and tips in writing on my website (in > my collected posts, and my workshop handout), and apparently quite a > number of people have successfully used that guidance to make these > dresses. I think that's sufficient. Please note that these are at http://www.netherton.net/robin Several times now I've found that people are passing around a link to http://www.barony-of-arnhold.org/gothicdress1.htm in the belief that it's a tutorial or instructions on my method. (I know it's on quite a few links lists this way.) This site was NOT intended to be a guide to making the dress. This is a sequence of photos from a workshop I did once. The photos don't represent the entire fitting sequence or any of the preparatory steps. It's fun if you want to see some of the process in action, but it makes sense only in the contact of my lecture and/or written materials. It cannot stand on its own as instructions. If you know anyone who has the arnhold site in their links lists, please let them know they really should link to my own site first. (I caught this on the GBACG site some time ago, and they fixed it there.) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 18:56:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CMuBIT012493 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 18:56:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CEOO4d011937 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 08:24:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CEOKBh096258; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 08:24:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CEOFBh096218 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 08:24:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21348 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 09:31:18 -0500 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 09:31:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] GFD fitting question In-Reply-To: <20040912135011.GIWA8960.out008.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 kathysmassmail@verizon.net wrote: > So, do you ever plan to do a photo essay on your method of fitting the > straight front seam? It would be really helpful. :-) And maybe it > would stop some of the "how do you do this?" questions. I'm really disinclined to do this. For one thing, the steps involved can vary quite a bit depending on the figure type and the specific problems involved; if I "canonize" a particular sequence in print, then people will tend to see that as a step one, step two, step three prescription. That's very bad news; you have to do what the fabric and body tell you to do. And that means watching and thinking about what's happening and making decisions. I do outline a general sequence and tips in writing on my website (in my collected posts, and my workshop handout), and apparently quite a number of people have successfully used that guidance to make these dresses. I think that's sufficient. Another thing is that I try not to suggest that my particular favored sequence is the One True Way. I think there are some things we can feel reasonably sure are accurate to period (e.g. a four-panel cut, set-in sleeves, front lacings, certain fabrics, linings), and I describe these things in my lecture. But there were other elements that probably varied from one seamstress to another. I like that people can take the basics and, within those parameters, work out a variation feels logical to their own hands and brains. So, for instance, Tasha's method is just as demonstrably "authentic" as mine could be, in most respects. (I have a few quibbles with her approach, like not fitting over a chemise, but she knows about these.) > And speaking of Tasha, she just had Malcolm, a healthy baby boy. Hooray! Oh good. He was overdue -- I bet they're all really happy now! (And my younger son's middle name is Malcolm. Good choice ;-) ) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 19:03:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CN3gF9012534 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:03:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CDoF4d007219 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 07:50:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CDoEBh080383; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 07:50:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out008.verizon.net (out008pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.108]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CDoCBh080361 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 07:50:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kathysmassmail@verizon.net) Received: from outgoing.verizon.net ([192.168.1.4]) by out008.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040912135011.GIWA8960.out008.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 08:50:11 -0500 X-Mailer: Openwave WebEngine, version 2.8.12 (webedge20-101-197-20030912) From: To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] GFD fitting question Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 8:50:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out008.verizon.net from [192.168.1.4] at Sun, 12 Sep 2004 08:50:11 -0500 Message-Id: <20040912135011.GIWA8960.out008.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > When she created that photo essay, Tasha was experienced with doing curved > fronts, but had never tried a straight front before, So, do you ever plan to do a photo essay on your method of fitting the straight front seam? It would be really helpful. :-) And maybe it would stop some of the "how do you do this?" questions. And speaking of Tasha, she just had Malcolm, a healthy baby boy. Hooray! --Kathy K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 19:06:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CN6rNx012542 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:06:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CN6F4d017951 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 17:06:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CN6CBh049038; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 17:06:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com ([199.170.202.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CN6ABh049003 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 17:06:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i8CNR3TP059724 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:27:03 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: (from sfarmer@localhost) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3/Submit) id i8CNR3WL059723 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:27:03 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:27:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Farmer Message-Id: <200409122327.i8CNR3WL059723@sabre.goldsword.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] What you all do with costumes In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20040910174825.00b89640@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > And I'll take this moment to add a tiny note about one of my > personal 'teeth grinders' - The use of the word 'garb' in the SCA - > Although many will see it as a perfectly fine word - Its meaning, > especially in the SCA, is colored to mean something unreal, temporary, or > costume-like. I prefer to use the word clothing for the pieces I > make. Indeed, my efforts are not shoddy, temporary, make-do or to be > confused with theatrical clothing. I'll disagree with this. I've been in the SCA on and off for the last 30 years. In my experience the word "garb" is used because it is deliberately donething *NOT* "unreal, temporary or costume-like." It is "garb" to distinguish it from "mundane clothes." The word "costume" is very carefully *discouraged* because its use implies temporary or unreal. Jerusha in Meridies _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 19:07:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CN7gIN012546 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:07:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CN734d017996 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 17:07:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CN71Bh049426; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 17:07:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CN6wBh049354 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 17:06:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.145.85]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i8CN6mYP008938 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:06:51 +1000 Message-ID: <000101c4991d$176ae800$5591d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200409101801.i8AI14Bj000826@net.indra.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:of bananas and other treats.... Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 12:57:02 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > But what about that banana (or skin) they just found this spring in a > rubbish pit that was like Tudorish era??? I think expanding > knowledge is fun Ta > Carol That's very tenuous documentation for eating modern commercially grown bananas at an event, a lot of the new world foods were first brought to England as botanical novelties not food, they weren't eaten, just put on display in wealthy houses. Also IIRC the Bananas we eat now are the result of lots of hybridising and don't bear a great deal of resemblance to the original wild bananas. Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole in OR in Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra, Australia ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 19:08:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CN8Ivs012549 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:08:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CN7c4d018041 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 17:07:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CN7cBh049723; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 17:07:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CN71Bh049316 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 17:07:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.145.85]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i8CN6mYN008938 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:06:48 +1000 Message-ID: <000001c4991d$15d81300$5591d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Busking, was Corset supply shop in London Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 12:25:41 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 12:12 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Busking, was Corset supply shop in London > In Britain, "busking" is what street musicians do. > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby And Australia BTW, though all forms of street performers are regularly called 'buskers' even if their performances are not musical (e.g. people who dress up as statues, juggling acts etc.) And people told me we spoke the same language *g* Elizabeth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 19:24:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CNOg0t012629 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:24:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CD304d001242 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 07:03:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CD2wBh059110; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 07:02:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m14.mx.aol.com (imo-m14.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.204]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CD2uBh059060 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 07:02:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.7.) id 6.7b.33a97557 (4222) for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 09:02:47 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <7b.33a97557.2e75a2f7@aol.com> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 09:02:47 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: the word "kit" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5031 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/11/2004 10:03:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, robin@shell.nightowl.net writes: Oh, I like that much better than "mundanes," the usual SCA term. And a nicer ring than my usual phrase, "modern clothes" (as in, "I need time to change into modern clothes during the lunch break"). One of my colleagues coined the term, "time drag," for our living history garb. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 19:30:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CNUxiS012669 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:30:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CCKr4d027757 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 06:20:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CCKhBh041647; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 06:20:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-01-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (ms-smtp-01-smtplb.ohiordc.rr.com [65.24.5.135]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CCKfBh041636 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 06:20:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ailith@neo.rr.com) Received: from duncan (dhcp024-209-056-164.neo.rr.com [24.209.56.164]) by ms-smtp-01-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id i8CCKRJX010165 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 08:20:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <005601c498c2$e1800f40$1902a8c0@duncan> From: "ailith" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040912000648.024c0a48@64.87.54.245> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 08:20:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Extinct diseases X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I remember getting the smallpox vaccination. I watched them do it...and it was different than a regular shot. Mine's in my right hip--they took a needle, dipped it into a vial of something and then pricked my skin in a filled-in, circular pattern, similar to tatooing. My sister's is on her shoulder because she had a severe case of diaper rash. So, we got ours in about 1958. Sister Kenny did a form of physical therapy combined with heat, if I remember correctly. Pretty much unheard of at the time. kate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 19:44:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CNiYwb012735 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:44:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CNhu4d020590 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 17:43:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CNhsBh066757; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 17:43:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CNgpBh066240 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 17:42:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.145.85]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i8CNgW1o012923 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:42:40 +1000 Message-ID: <003801c49922$1b705160$5591d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040911124657.00baabd0@mail.katiesorchids.com><7FBB02B3-0361-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net><5.2.0.9.0.20040912105728.00c38658@mail.katiesorchids.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040912114603.075edfa0@mail.katiesorchids.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:41:43 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katie Pleasance" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 4:49 AM Subject: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases and GFDs > I have no children, therefore no grandchildren. I have little knowledge of > current child-rearing practices, including such things as vaccinations. I'm > pleased to see that they are still required. > > Katie Well as Polio is their next target they want to become extinct world-wide not just in developed countries they need to keep the vaccinations up everywhere, because (as somebody pointed out) it is not extinct world-wide people need to continue receiving vaccinations or else it will be re introduced from areas that are still affected. Elizabeth Obligatory Costume related comment, I've heard it stated that Elizabeth I started wearing lead makeup & frizzy bright red wigs after her close encounter with smallpox. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole in OR in Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra, Australia ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 19:49:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8CNnr4u012752 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:49:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CNnF4d020953 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 17:49:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CNnDBh069345; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 17:49:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8CNn5Bh069258 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 17:49:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.145.85]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i8CNmkbE013555 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:48:55 +1000 Message-ID: <003f01c49922$fa8d0460$5591d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <7FBB02B3-0361-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net><5.2.0.9.0.20040911124657.00baabd0@mail.katiesorchids.com> <200409112220.17291.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:47:54 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > On Saturday 11 September 2004 4:04 pm, Katie Pleasance wrote: > [snip] > > My little sister contracted polio in 1951 at age one year, two weeks. Those > > were the barbaric days when polio victims were basically written off to > > die. As a child, I remember the iron-lungs, but they were not yet in wide > > use. Does anybody even remember seeing a *picture* of an iron lung? What a > > ghastly way to live, inside a machine that does your breathing for you > > . I saw a news story recently about a man in his 70s who still has to sleep in an iron lung, he caught Polio in his late teens and he's never spent a night outside the hospital since. He recovered enough to do without the iron lung while he was conscious but when he falls asleep he would suffocate without it. It is very sad to see that sort of thing, and it still happens with spinal cord injuries. Elizabeth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 20:09:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8D09K3E012881 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:09:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D08c4d022258 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 18:08:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D08XBh078480; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 18:08:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net (smtp2.suscom.net [64.78.83.231]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D08VBi078451 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 18:08:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (smtp2.suscom.net [127.0.0.1]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10F6C1CDCE1 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:04:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp2 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 03013-02 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:04:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.78.64.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id D54831CDCFD for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:04:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <066901c49925$b178f330$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases and GFDs Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:07:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2004 6:17 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases and GFDs > > On Sun, 12 Sep 2004, Dianne & Greg Stucki wrote: > > > But polio vaccines are still given to children. It's required to enter > > school, generally given as part of a "triple-threat" > > vaccine--diphtherica, polio, and pertussis ("whooping cough") combined > > into one vaccine, usually given as a series of three shots several > > months apart. > > You're thinking of the diphtheria-pertussis-tetanus combo. Polio is given > separately, usually orally. You're right. Never try to think when surrounded by people under the age of ten. ;-) > cut the pattern just a bit larger, set the gores at the hips, > > and off I go! > > Keep the gores at the waist! You'll find that the visual waist on the > dress will be higher than your natural waist, so they won't look too high. > The gores will allow for a gradual expansion that will give you a nice > sloping tummy and leave sufficient room for the hips. If you don't start > the gores till the hips, you won't have enough expansion quickly enough to > accommodate the increased width at the hips. In wear, the dress will slide > up in the area between your waist and hips, as it seeks a way to lie > comfortably on your body. > > Start the back gore, if you have one, right at the small of the back. Actually, that was the one I was most concerned about--the others can stay at the height they are at, but that one is just a bit too high. It needs to be maybe an inch or two lower, and then it should hit right at the small of my back. Dianne > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 20:12:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8D0C8HG012886 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:12:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D0BO4d022429 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 18:11:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D0BOBh079925; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 18:11:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8D0BKBh079854 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 18:11:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m2.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABAWK3NRAXA2ENS for (sender ); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 17:10:55 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCng28M/+NKfBa6cgd8+4c/vey1ctRQ1EDw== Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id J7C83BRD; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 17:10:06 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 17:27:32 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases Message-ID: <20040912.172732.-116104709.1.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 7-21,23,24-32767 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-ContentStamp: 8:4:4073673123 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think we should put that one on the list of Costuming Myths. While she did start wearing wigs and heavy makeup later in life (1590's) it was several decades after her bout of smallpox. As far as we can tell, she was not noticeably disfigured by it. She probably started wearing the disguising elements to cover up the signs of aging. On the other hand, one of her close friends and ladies-in-waiting, Mary Sidney the Elder, was disfigured by smallpox after which she retired from court and wore a veil in front of her face for the rest of her life. Karen On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:41:43 +1000 "Elizabeth Walpole" > Obligatory Costume related comment, I've heard it stated that > Elizabeth I started wearing lead makeup & frizzy bright red wigs after her > close encounter with smallpox. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 20:12:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8D0Cqhf012889 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:12:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D0C84d022485 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 18:12:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D0C7Bh080354; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 18:12:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D0BUBh079889 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 18:11:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.145.85]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i8D0B0nq017821 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 10:11:09 +1000 Message-ID: <005c01c49926$15f4fac0$5591d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 10:10:12 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Bubonic and pneumonic plague are the same disease. If the bacterium, > Yersinia pestis, infects you through the bloodstream (e.g. via a bite from > an infected rodent, or if you handle the tissues of an infected rodent and > have a cut on your skin, or if your pet cat feasts on an infected rodent > and then scratches you), you get bubonic plague. If Y. pestis infects you > through the air, you get the faster-killing pneumonic plague. This can > occur if someone reaches the late stages of the disease, where there's > enough bacteria in his lungs for it to be spread via airborne droplets > when he coughs. Otherwise, live Y. pestis isn't ordinarily airborne. There's actually some (relatively) new research suggesting that maybe the medieval black plague wasn't actually the bacteria Yersinia pestis, a group of researchers are suggesting it might actually have been a virus. See http://www.abc.net.au/science/k2/moments/s714968.htm for a bit more info. Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole in OR in Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra, Australia ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 20:54:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8D0sd8o013050 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:54:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D0rx4d025349 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 18:53:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D0rrBh000762; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 18:53:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D0rkBh000710 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 18:53:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.145.85]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i8D0rUYt023730 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 10:53:37 +1000 Message-ID: <00a301c4992c$043046e0$5591d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: extinct diseases Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 10:52:42 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The odd thing is that now we know that pretty much everyone got > polio, but that something like 95% of people had no symptoms, and of those > who did have symptoms, only something like 5% had severe symptoms > (paralysis, etc.). There's a wonderful PBS program on the disease, I'm sure > it's still available. I think I've seen that program (or a similar one) one of their points was that the reason why Polio only became an epidemic in the 20th century is due to better sanitation, sure it got rid of diseases like typhus but children used to contract Polio very early in life when they were still being breast fed and they were protected by their mother's immunities. When the streets were cleaned up children missed it as babies/toddlers and when they were older it hit them much harder. Elizabeth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 21:15:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8D1Fusm013145 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 21:15:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D1FB4d026751 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:15:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D1F5Bh011130; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:15:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [206.170.184.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D1EtBh011040 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:14:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lists@margospatterns.com) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r14a114.directcon.net [207.215.72.114]) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id i8D1K2N20085 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 18:20:02 -0700 Message-ID: <016201c4992c$d1a3cc00$7248d7cf@dnyeaqvf> From: To: "Historical Costume" References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A17@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Court Garb in hot weather[ bit long] Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 17:54:44 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-DCC-SdV-Metrics: net.indra.com 1179; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >Note: perhaps, though it is not life threatening, people can say what they > >do for those wet/damp weekends as well as the brisk weekends. As a lifelong Californian, I have no idea what you're talking about. Rain is something that happens between October and May. Water falling from the sky in the summertime is just...WRONG. Margo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 21:17:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8D1H790013150 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 21:17:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D1GK4d026809 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:16:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D1GJBh011678; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:16:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [206.170.184.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D1EtBh011053 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:14:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lists@margospatterns.com) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r14a114.directcon.net [207.215.72.114]) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id i8D1K3N20088 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 18:20:04 -0700 Message-ID: <016501c4992c$d28ec840$7248d7cf@dnyeaqvf> From: To: "Historical Costume" References: <7FBB02B3-0361-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> <5.2.0.9.0.20040911124657.00baabd0@mail.katiesorchids.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 17:58:42 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-DCC-SdV-Metrics: net.indra.com 1179; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As a child, I remember the iron-lungs, but they were not yet in wide > use. Does anybody even remember seeing a *picture* of an iron lung? What a > ghastly way to live, inside a machine that does your breathing for you . My great grandfather was the metalworker who made the first prototype iron lung. The hope was that they would be a temporary solution, until a cure was found. Sadly, that wasn't the case for most people. I wonder how long the victims actually tended to live that way. Margo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 21:26:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8D1QFIL013187 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 21:26:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D1Pe4d027481 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:25:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D1PbBh016078; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:25:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D1PXBi016062 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:25:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i8D1mnR9007865 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 21:48:50 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040912181824.075f07e0@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 18:25:29 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Jane Austin movies X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just picked up the BBC versions of Jane Austin's "Sense and Sensibility", "Pride and Prejudice", "Persuasion", and "Mansfield Park" at Costco for about US$10 each. Luscious dresses in a style that I love, but oh! the tedious, unending quest to marry "well" is getting tiring. That seems to be the only topic in the movies - how to marry the richest man possible. Katie, who's very first real sewing project was an Empire gown from scratch, including designing the pattern. I still have the pattern in my files, I think, though it would be much too small for me as it was done when I was young and skinny. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 21:39:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8D1dV9t013263 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 21:39:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D1Yn4d028042 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:34:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D1YmBh020766; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:34:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D1YjBi020745 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:34:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i8D1w2R9009648 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 21:58:02 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040912182625.00c43ca0@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 18:34:42 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: [h-cost] RE: Court Garb in hot weather In-Reply-To: <016201c4992c$d1a3cc00$7248d7cf@dnyeaqvf> References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A17@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO We just bought acreage in the Puget Sound islands near Seattle and one of my first questions was - "Does it really rain in the summer?". Apparently it does, on occasion. I grew up and still live in California and think nothing of leaving things outside that could be destroyed by rain -- in the dry months. We haven't had the first rain of the season yet, but we're getting ready to put a tarp over the firewood and do other preparations for the rainy season. Here on the Pacific Coast we have two seasons - dry and warm, and (sometimes) wet and cool. Rarely hot and rarely cold and the rain is strictly seasonal. For the most part our garb needs to be designed for neither extreme heat nor extreme cold. Katie >As a lifelong Californian, I have no idea what you're talking about. Rain >is something that happens between October and May. Water falling from the >sky in the summertime is just...WRONG. >Margo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 21:42:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8D1gILj013268 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 21:42:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D1ZQ4d028111 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:35:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D1ZQBh021132; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:35:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.198]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D1YpBh020801 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:34:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from athurman@gmail.com) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 79so313130rnl for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 18:34:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.171.26 with SMTP id t26mr994974rne; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 18:34:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.164.19 with HTTP; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 18:34:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7d21ac19040912183436e23601@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 21:34:47 -0400 From: "A. Thurman" To: Historic Costume List Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-NIET-Metrics: net.indra.com 1080; env_From=1 Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Elizabeth I and smallpox X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think Alison Weir's biography of Elizabeth mentioned that she wore a mixture of alum and egg white from a fairly young age to hide her unfashionably dark complexion. Still, by the 1590s, weren't wigs and white makeup fashionable anyway, whether the wearer was aging or not? Allison T. Message: 11 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 17:27:32 -0500 From: seamstrix@juno.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: <20040912.172732.-116104709.1.Seamstrix@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I think we should put that one on the list of Costuming Myths. While she did start wearing wigs and heavy makeup later in life (1590's) it was several decades after her bout of smallpox. As far as we can tell, she was not noticeably disfigured by it. She probably started wearing the disguising elements to cover up the signs of aging. On the other hand, one of her close friends and ladies-in-waiting, Mary Sidney the Elder, was disfigured by smallpox after which she retired from court and wore a veil in front of her face for the rest of her life. Karen On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:41:43 +1000 "Elizabeth Walpole" > Obligatory Costume related comment, I've heard it stated that > Elizabeth I started wearing lead makeup & frizzy bright red wigs after her > close encounter with smallpox. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 21:43:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8D1hscZ013271 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 21:43:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D1ax4d028219 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:36:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D1avBh021825; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:36:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D1arBi021810 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:36:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i8D20AR9010014 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:00:11 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040912183551.074d1d80@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 18:36:50 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases In-Reply-To: <016501c4992c$d28ec840$7248d7cf@dnyeaqvf> References: <7FBB02B3-0361-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> <5.2.0.9.0.20040911124657.00baabd0@mail.katiesorchids.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My question is how long they remained sane living like that. I think it would drive me bonkers. Katie >My great grandfather was the metalworker who made the first prototype iron >lung. The hope was that they would be a temporary solution, until a cure >was found. Sadly, that wasn't the case for most people. I wonder how long >the victims actually tended to live that way. > >Margo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 21:51:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8D1p0eF013295 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 21:51:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D1o34d029302 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:50:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D1o3Bh029015; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:50:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm01.prodigy.net (ylpvm01-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D1nvBh028957 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:49:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-87-216.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.87.216]) by ylpvm01.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D1nqbO010747 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 21:49:53 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040912172811.027201f0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 17:29:09 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] raised/stumpwork flowers. In-Reply-To: <001101c49901$f4cdedd0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >dres with pleated ruches and small bouques of flowers spread along the >ruches. Originally made with chenille threads. Try also books on Victorian needlework. Making things like flowers out of chenille is very Victorian. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 21:53:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8D1rhqP013309 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 21:53:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D1oW4d029344 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:50:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D1oUBh029252; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:50:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm01.prodigy.net (ylpvm01-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D1nxBh028969 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:50:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-87-216.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.87.216]) by ylpvm01.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D1nqbQ010747 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 21:49:54 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040912173224.02729b40@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 17:32:51 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases; political threads In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040912124203.0764a4c0@mail.katiesorchids.com> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040912121017.0763f578@mail.katiesorchids.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040912105728.00c38658@mail.katiesorchids.com> <4.3.1.2.20040912102606.026abd08@mail.frys.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040911124657.00baabd0@mail.katiesorchids.com> <7FBB02B3-0361-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> <5.2.0.9.0.20040912121017.0763f578@mail.katiesorchids.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Regarding politics - political threads too often turn into flame wars. Thank you. No response required. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 21:54:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8D1s4GK013315 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 21:54:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D1m14d029121 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:48:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D1m0Bh028030; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:48:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from newmail.logical.net (newmail.logical.net [209.23.116.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D1ltBi027975 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:47:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from homeec@telenet.net) Received: from computername (ip-209-23-17-23.modem.logical.net [209.23.17.23]) by newmail.logical.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8D1llYA006497 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 21:47:52 -0400 Message-ID: <002f01c49933$adaf5fb0$171117d1@computername> From: "Home Ec" To: "Historical Costume" References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A17@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> <016201c4992c$d1a3cc00$7248d7cf@dnyeaqvf> Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Court Garb in hot weather[ bit long] Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 21:47:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >> >Note: perhaps, though it is not life threatening, people can say what > they >> >do for those wet/damp weekends as well as the brisk weekends. > > As a lifelong Californian, I have no idea what you're talking about. Rain > is something that happens between October and May. Water falling from the > sky in the summertime is just...WRONG. > Margo Right now, I think Florida would also agree with you. Those of us on the East Coast, who experience torrential storms or the hurricanes that move up the coast from early August on, usually don't even notice it unless it knocks down our house. This was one of the few years that I didn't spend at least part of Pennsic holding the tent down during a horrendous storm. We did have a bad storm at the end, but it was more the effect of the sea tide rolling in - the wall of water came down, but without the winds, so none of us had to do anything more than see if the lake was up to our doorstep yet. My clothes stayed dry (my tent did too), or at least the linen and wool kept me comfortable, but I have to admit I was thinking of getting those calf-high plastic boots that gardeners and farmers wear! Rowena _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 21:57:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8D1v4AU013334 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 21:57:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D1uR4d029821 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:56:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D1uPBh032112; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:56:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D1uLBh032069 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:56:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.100]) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1C6g4r-000798-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 18:56:21 -0700 Message-ID: <4144FE4E.9030807@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 18:56:30 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.3 (Windows/20040803) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] raised/stumpwork flowers. References: <001101c49901$f4cdedd0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <001101c49901$f4cdedd0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have just the answer for you I think! Have you read the series on Elizabethan embroidery by Sheila Marshall? You can see them here. She shows how to do these flowers in one of these books. If you'd like me to check which one, I can...I have them. ttp://www.jdr-be.com/elizabethaseriesgallery.htm This is not necessarily the place to buy them from, but just a place to see them. Sg Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >Hi, >Talking about other and better things than extinct deseases. >While working on the courtdress i have only had my mind thinking about the >next projekt i am starting soon. The original dress is in the huge costume >book from Kyoto, not Revolution, but the other one. It is a large pannier >dres with pleated ruches and small bouques of flowers spread along the >ruches. Originally made with chenille threads. >I have ordered a large skein of undyed silk chenille, and i want to dye it >in some colours that will suit the pale yellow silk taffeta. Then i have >ordered some embroidery books about stumpwork so that i can get some ideas >to make 3-dimensional flowers of the chenille. >I was thinking about making the flowerleaves by outlining with millinery >wire and then weave the chenille back and forth, but for the flowers i am >not sure! >Long live Amazon.com next week i will have the books! > > >Bjarne > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 21:58:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8D1wlMl013341 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 21:58:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D1wE4d029991 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:58:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D1wCBh033161; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:58:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com ([199.170.202.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D1w9Bh033146 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:58:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i8D2J5TP061364 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:19:05 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: (from sfarmer@localhost) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3/Submit) id i8D2J5sl061363 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:19:05 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:19:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Farmer Message-Id: <200409130219.i8D2J5sl061363@sabre.goldsword.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040911124657.00baabd0@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Not only do I remember Polio and Smallpox, I also have a small-pox vaccination scar. I remember the first oral polio vaccines. Susan, 51 this past July _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 21:59:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8D1xNf9013346 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 21:59:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8C7LQ4d011766 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 01:21:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8C7LNBh015879; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 01:21:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8C7LKBh015828 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 01:21:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-164.cvip.net [129.8.205.164]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7392F5FD8F for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 00:21:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040912001616.024cbc90@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 00:17:00 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb, costume et al In-Reply-To: <20040911172450.595.qmail@web53101.mail.yahoo.com> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040911030040.00b190c0@64.87.54.245> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 06:24 PM 9/11/2004 +0100, you wrote: >OK, I'm beginning to lect ure,soI'llstophere. >But you did ask. >Julian, >in "olde" Jersey. Yes, I did ask, and I appreciate your reply. Thanks so much for sharing. I like learning new things like this. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 22:01:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8D21i1I013366 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:01:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D21A4d000343 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:01:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D219Bh034643; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:01:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com ([199.170.202.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D214Bh034599 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:01:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i8D2M0TP061411 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:22:00 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: (from sfarmer@localhost) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3/Submit) id i8D2M0Hf061410 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:22:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:22:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Farmer Message-Id: <200409130222.i8D2M0Hf061410@sabre.goldsword.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Extinct diseases In-Reply-To: <7d21ac1904091115244011090f@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO *snippage* > > Obligatory costume content - I wonder what they did to the clothes of > people who died of such infectious diseases? I'm guessing they were > burnt, but in times places when clothes were extremely valuable, was > this done often? Ever read The Velveteen Rabbit? The child had scarlet fever and *everything* was burned. Even if your clothes were valuable, it wasn't worth the risk of catching the disease. Valuable Clothes mean nothing to a dead person. Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 22:02:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8D22Txj013371 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:02:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D21i4d000409 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:01:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D21hBh035134; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:01:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D21IBh034754 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:01:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.100]) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1C6g9e-0000G7-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:01:18 -0700 Message-ID: <4144FF77.7070703@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:01:27 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.3 (Windows/20040803) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabeth I and smallpox-makeup References: <7d21ac19040912183436e23601@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <7d21ac19040912183436e23601@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO According to several biographies I have read, she did loose most of her hair because of smallpox. But wearing wigs were all the rage anyway from what I understand. As to her makeup, I have always wondered about the exagerated white makeup and red cupid lip thing...I haven't seen an Elizabethan portrait of anyone which appears that way. Did anyone see the recent movie about Charles I ? His mistress worn this style when he asked her to leave....I've never seen it in Jacobean porttraits either. Has anyone else?? Sg A. Thurman wrote: >I think Alison Weir's biography of Elizabeth mentioned that she wore a >mixture of alum and egg white from a fairly young age to hide her >unfashionably dark complexion. Still, by the 1590s, weren't wigs and >white makeup fashionable anyway, whether the wearer was aging or not? > >Allison T. > > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 22:05:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8D252Eg013379 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:05:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D24D4d000577 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:04:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D24CBh036441; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:04:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D24ABh036415 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:04:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Scourney@nwlink.com) Received: from sc (ip157.usw235.dsl-acs2.sea.iinet.com [207.202.235.157]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 5DD8382BEB for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:04:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <018e01c49936$5a8a8e10$0200a8c0@sc> From: "Susan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <7FBB02B3-0361-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net><5.2.0.9.0.20040911124657.00baabd0@mail.katiesorchids.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040912183551.074d1d80@mail.katiesorchids.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:06:59 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I recently read a book about polio (A Summer Plaque). And gleamed this info - Most Polio patients were not in the iron lung for long (well it could be months, but not years). Those who didn't recover enough to breathe on their own did stay in the iron lung for while, but new technology was developed that allowed them to be mobile and live relatively normal lives. If they got a respiratory disease, there was a chance they would need to return to the iron lung until they were better. Yes, this book has a chapter plus on Sister Kerry, the first I had heard of her - but interesting reading. Susan in WA > My question is how long they remained sane living like that. I think it > would drive me bonkers. > > Katie > > > >My great grandfather was the metalworker who made the first prototype iron > >lung. The hope was that they would be a temporary solution, until a cure > >was found. Sadly, that wasn't the case for most people. I wonder how long > >the victims actually tended to live that way. > > > >Margo > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 22:08:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8D28ex1013383 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:08:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8C7OG4d011982 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 01:24:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8C7OGBh017123; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 01:24:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8C7OEBh017099 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 01:24:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-164.cvip.net [129.8.205.164]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E3DB11BBF for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 00:24:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040912002247.00b193d0@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 00:23:48 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Chassidim In-Reply-To: References: <200409111120.i8BBJVBi090492@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:57 AM 9/11/2004 -0400, you wrote: >While I'm pretending to be a dictionary, I will answer the question about >the word "Chassidic," which I didn't see answered. Thanks for your answer. I had heard of Hassidic, but not Chassidic, and didn't know they were the same or similar. And while I do have a few Jewish friends, none of them are Orthodox. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 22:08:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8D28ex3013383 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:08:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8C7ML4d011837 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 01:22:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8C7MLBh016301; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 01:22:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8C7LjBh016062 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 01:21:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-164.cvip.net [129.8.205.164]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id A83175FE0D for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 00:21:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040912000648.024c0a48@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 00:21:46 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Extinct diseases In-Reply-To: <7d21ac1904091115244011090f@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 06:24 PM 9/11/2004 -0400, you wrote: >Re: smallpox vaccination - my husband has the characteristic >vaccination scar, as he was born in Bogota Columbia in 1970, >when/where vaccinations were still offered. I also have a small scar, but I didn't know until now what it was from. I was born in '66. I remember getting a shot when I was six before I could go to Japan with my mother and that was when I got the scar. I had other immunizations, and the only disease I had as a kid was German Measles. Thanks all for sharing the info on these diseases. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 22:08:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8D28ex5013383 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:08:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8C7Ld4d011788 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 01:21:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8C7LdBh015993; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 01:21:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8C7LKBh015847 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 01:21:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-164.cvip.net [129.8.205.164]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66C915FDC0 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 00:21:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040912001748.02502a48@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 00:21:18 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040911124657.00baabd0@mail.katiesorchids.com> References: <7FBB02B3-0361-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 01:04 PM 9/11/2004 -0700, you wrote: >Does anybody even remember seeing a *picture* of an iron lung? What a >ghastly way to live, inside a machine that does your breathing for you . Yes, I remember the iron lung as a picture in a school health class. But I do not know Sister Kenny. Who was she and what did she do as a treatment that helped your sister? <> I take salt during hot days at ren faire. I also enjoy salty foods as well (dill pickles, pretzels, olives, etc.) to help keep the body's water levels going. Not sure what all it does to me, but it really helps keep me going. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 22:09:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8D29PgC013392 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:09:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D28b4d000864 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:08:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D28YBh038566; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:08:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm29.prodigy.net (ylpvm29-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D28VBh038543 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:08:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-87-216.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.87.216]) by ylpvm29.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D28JIo028505 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:08:19 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040912185428.025168a8@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:04:37 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040912183551.074d1d80@mail.katiesorchids.com> References: <016501c4992c$d28ec840$7248d7cf@dnyeaqvf> <7FBB02B3-0361-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> <5.2.0.9.0.20040911124657.00baabd0@mail.katiesorchids.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >My question is how long they remained sane living like that. I think it >would drive me bonkers. My housemate, who still does Ren. Faires in costume, is a quadriplegic in a motorized wheelchair. He sometimes gets all down about how useless he imagines he is, and wonders why he's still alive. At other times he's a rolling resource full of information about accessibility issues and many other useful things to know, and would do well in an advocate position (if anyone's budget could still afford people like him). I put him on a panel I was doing at a local Science Fiction convention last weekend, which was a discussion of costuming for people with non-standard bodies and special costuming needs. He gets down occasionally, but otherwise has a full life, has more friends than I have, goes places, etc. Anyone who attends the Gaskell dances in Oakland, CA, will have seen him in costume in his chair - which can allow him to stand up if he likes. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 22:11:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8D2B8Bj013402 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:11:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D25T4d000669 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:05:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D25RBh037011; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:05:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D25OBh036999 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:05:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.100]) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1C6gDc-00018Q-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:05:24 -0700 Message-ID: <4145006E.4060500@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:05:34 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.3 (Windows/20040803) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] ersatz References: <4.3.1.2.20040912101318.02664748@mail.frys.com> In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20040912101318.02664748@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >> Except with a Z ...."air zats" :) > Sg > > Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > I think this word, in the original German, means 'substitute', like > the 'ersatz coffee' in WWII, which was Postum or some other non-coffee > drink. It's pronounced "Air sats". > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 22:11:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8D2Bt42013408 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:11:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D2B84d001117 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:11:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D2B7Bh039785; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:11:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.netspace.net.au (thunder.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D2B3Bh039702 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:11:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from stilskin@netspace.net.au) Received: from chris (dialup-a1-233.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [203.113.246.233]) by mail.netspace.net.au (Postfix) with SMTP id 0D0054297E for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 12:10:52 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <001e01c49937$95174e00$e9f671cb@chris> From: "Christopher Ballis" To: "Historical Costume" References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A17@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk><016201c4992c$d1a3cc00$7248d7cf@dnyeaqvf> <002f01c49933$adaf5fb0$171117d1@computername> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 12:15:45 +1000 Organization: Australian Costume Supply MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Court Garb in weather X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Some years ago, I attended an SCA event an hour or two's drive from Melbourne on a New Year's Day. Most of the day it was over 100 degrees F which made the flomping and whomping of gowns interesting to watch. Ever sat in court among gum trees at a campsite in the Australian bush in that kind of heat? Not to be recommended! By around 3:00pm, a few of us abondoned the event in favour of the beach which was ten minutes away. Ever gone to the crowded beach dressed as a monk, a courtesan, a Romanesque warrior or a servant girl? Very much to be recommended. We returned to the event for the banquet just in time for a freak unseasonal thunderstorm that took out the electricity for miles around. I realised then that the only dinner event that could survive a power blackout was a re-enactor's event. Remind me to tell you about the time I set up a mobile disco dressed as a - - - -C. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 22:13:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8D2Dxor013419 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:13:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8C6iA4d009756 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 00:44:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8C6i6Bh098608; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 00:44:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8C6i0Bh098552 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 00:44:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F0032B4EE for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 01:44:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p361.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.107]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 214FAD487 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 01:43:59 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] fwd: Samurai Costume Search, day 6... (fwd) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 01:44:18 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <091120042350.13727.41438F590003064F0000359F2200745672010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If you are looking for premade, you can get by with an Aikido ge/uniform. AWMA, Asian World of Martial arts sells the Hakima and the top. They have a website. You might want to check with Century (martial Arts not the realtors) Otherwise costume connections has a Japanese pattern for men. De -----Original Message----- Any one? -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Forwarded Message: -------------- Hi, I'm looking for a Samurai outfit for my friends. They run a sketch comedy tv show here in the seattle area, and one of the bits for the upcoming episode (a clever kurosawa-parody) requires a convincing Samurai outfit and Ninja outfit. The ninja is pretty easy to take care of, but I'm having a tough time finding anything samurai-ey. Someone (from Craigslist) recommended your group, I'm not sure what it is you do, but I'm kinda shotgunning this request to see if I can find anyone who knows someone who knows someone... and so on. So, if you know someone or are someone who owns/knows where to get a samurai outfit, please shoot me an email at Rabidium@hotmail.com or call me at 206-Mud-Hatt (no joke) and fill me in. Tragically the show has no budget, so I can't pay, but you will get a credit, and the satisfaction of doing something good for some funny guys. If you require other compensation that isn't cash, maybe one of us can help you do something. Thanks in advance for your help! -Olaf _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 22:16:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8D2Gc8b013435 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:16:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D2Fv4d001419 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:15:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D2FsBh042276; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:15:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D2FqBi042255 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:15:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i8D2d8R9017786 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:39:09 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040912190937.00c43de0@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:15:48 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Extinct diseases In-Reply-To: <200409130222.i8D2M0Hf061410@sabre.goldsword.com> References: <7d21ac1904091115244011090f@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO But what about the days before "germ theory"? In those days disease was considered "a punishment from God" as much as anything else. Would they have conceived that a sick person's clothes could carry disease? Do you think that QEI burned all her clothes after recovering from smallpox? I doubt it. She had gained immunity through surviving the disease but she would not have known it; and any future lady-in-waiting that came into contact with the clothes would be at risk, no? Katie I wonder what they did to the clothes of > > people who died of such infectious diseases? I'm guessing they were > > burnt, but in times places when clothes were extremely valuable, was > > this done often? > >Ever read The Velveteen Rabbit? The child had scarlet fever and >*everything* was burned. Even if your clothes were valuable, it wasn't >worth the risk of catching the disease. Valuable Clothes mean nothing >to a dead person. >Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 22:19:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8D2JZHR013465 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:19:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D2It4d001695 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:18:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D2IiBh043705; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:18:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm15.prodigy.net (ylpvm15-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D2IbBh043649 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:18:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-87-216.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.87.216]) by ylpvm15.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D2In10026002 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:18:50 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040912191157.03208740@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:18:26 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] ersatz In-Reply-To: <4145006E.4060500@earthlink.net> References: <4.3.1.2.20040912101318.02664748@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20040912101318.02664748@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i8D2IbBh043649 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Then you would know why Käthe became Kayta - I got called Kathy too often. >>> Except with a Z ...."air zats" :) >>It's pronounced "Air sats". Obligatory costume content: I started out in the SCA in 1971 as Käthe. I wore a German costume from an Albrecht Durer woodcut, and invented that which gets called the "origami hat", reverse engineered from a Durer woodcut or two. In about 1990 I got divorced and kept the name as Kayta, since most of the world only knew me as that, not as Carolyn. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 22:29:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8D2TYmc013487 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:29:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D2St4d002462 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:28:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D2SrBh048864; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:28:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D2SqBh048768 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:28:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gia_gavino@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.115 ([204.127.197.115]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <20040913022843013004ujffe>; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 02:28:43 +0000 Received: from [24.16.244.181] by 204.127.197.115; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 02:28:39 +0000 From: gia_gavino@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Court Garb in weather Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 02:28:39 +0000 Message-Id: <091320040228.2733.414505D7000177BD00000AAD2200735834010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Jul 16 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: Z2lhX2dhdmlub0Bjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh! I'm up for a great story... [settling down on a nice comfortable chair, expectantly waiting....] -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > Some years ago, I attended an SCA event an hour or two's drive from > Melbourne on a New Year's Day. Most of the day it was over 100 degrees F > which made the flomping and whomping of gowns interesting to watch. > > Ever sat in court among gum trees at a campsite in the Australian bush in > that kind of heat? Not to be recommended! > > By around 3:00pm, a few of us abondoned the event in favour of the beach > which was ten minutes away. > > Ever gone to the crowded beach dressed as a monk, a courtesan, a Romanesque > warrior or a servant girl? Very much to be recommended. > > Remind me to tell you about the time I set up a mobile disco dressed as > a - - - > > -C. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 22:33:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8D2XE1N013506 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:33:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D2Wf4d002766 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:32:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D2WeBh050762; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:32:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com ([199.170.202.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D2WZBh050714 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:32:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i8D2rWTP062039 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:53:32 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: (from sfarmer@localhost) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3/Submit) id i8D2rWQY062038 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:53:32 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:53:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Farmer Message-Id: <200409130253.i8D2rWQY062038@sabre.goldsword.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20040912102606.026abd08@mail.frys.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >How many of the members don't know anything about polio or smallpox? When > >Ruthanne and I were growing up, these were *serious* (and deadly) > >concerns. These days, they exist only in laboratories. > > Problem is, every time they think some disease is extinct, they find out it > isn't. People still get polio, whooping cough, scarlet fever, rheumatic > fever, and all those other diseases the rest of us think are extinct. this is true. but the only documentated cases of smallpox in the last 30 years were *directly* attributed to sloppiness in the lab. In the "wild" (aka the human population), smallpox has been indeed eradicated. Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 22:39:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8D2dI9g013516 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:39:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D2cg4d003236 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:38:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D2cfBh053844; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:38:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com ([199.170.202.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D2cdBh053822 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:38:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i8D2xaTP062157 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:59:36 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: (from sfarmer@localhost) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3/Submit) id i8D2xaoP062156 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:59:36 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:59:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Farmer Message-Id: <200409130259.i8D2xaoP062156@sabre.goldsword.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20040912115434.024368b0@mail.frys.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >I'm going to agree with that statement even though I titled the thread > >"extinct diseases". I read recently that a few cases of polio have shown > >up in eastern Africa, much to the surprise of the medical establishment. > > Extinction is forever, so we get complacent about diseases labeled as > extinct. Bubonic plague is still around too, and I heard a rumor that > Albuquerque, New Mexico, sees one or two cases of it every year. > > I was unaware that polio victims were quarantined. Was this done > everywhere? A guy I used to date, born in Hawaii, had polio, and never > mentioned quarantining (tho he did have lots of hospital stories). ONe of my Botany professors was quarantined in an Iron Lung when he was 5 or 6. He was in a room alone. There was a mirror above him that allowed him to see whoever was standing at the window outside his door. He still has the psychological scars from the episode. :-( Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 22:43:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8D2hu1Q013540 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:43:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D2hJ4d003506 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:43:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D2hHBh056152; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:43:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail03.powweb.com (mail03.powweb.com [66.152.97.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D2hEBh056064 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:43:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from megan@benchite.com) Received: from megan2 (pcp06952326pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net [69.140.8.214]) by mail03.powweb.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADB4115C23 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:43:07 -0700 (PDT) From: "Megan M." To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:43:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040912121017.0763f578@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Thread-Index: AcSY/dkeFuvwOEUFR+S1s2sqbAVocAAPTTEg Message-Id: <20040913024307.ADB4115C23@mail03.powweb.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I can tell you that they were quarantined in Pittsburgh as well. My mother told me stories of quarantine, including how lucky I was that when I got scarlet fever I did not have to get quarantined like she did when she had it. BTW, I'm only 41, but do not appear to have a smallpox scar. -Megan -----Original Message----- We lived in Cheyenne, Wyoming at the time. In that location, at that time, polio cases were quarantined. I don't about elsewhere / elsewhen. Katie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 22:59:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8D2xZWT013616 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:59:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D2wv4d004472 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:58:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D2wuBh064016; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:58:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com ([199.170.202.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D2wrBh063999 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:58:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i8D3JoTP062469 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 23:19:50 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: (from sfarmer@localhost) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3/Submit) id i8D3JoBw062468 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 23:19:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 23:19:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Farmer Message-Id: <200409130319.i8D3JoBw062468@sabre.goldsword.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Extinct diseases In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040912190937.00c43de0@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > But what about the days before "germ theory"? In those days disease was > considered "a punishment from God" as much as anything else. Would they > have conceived that a sick person's clothes could carry disease? Do you > think that QEI burned all her clothes after recovering from smallpox? I > doubt it. She had gained immunity through surviving the disease but she > would not have known it; and any future lady-in-waiting that came into > contact with the clothes would be at risk, no? We're also talking about a spam of some 400-500 years here. In Elizabeth's day they probably wouldn't because of their beliefs about disease and how it was or wasn't transmitted. After the transmission of disease by invisible things called germs -- that's a different matter entirely. Contagions were understood -- but not necessarily what viruses were or that some "disease causing agents" didn't survive well outside the body. Rather than risk infection by "an invisible microbe" anything that might be contaminated was burned. Susan > I wonder what they did to the clothes of > > > people who died of such infectious diseases? I'm guessing they were > > > burnt, but in times places when clothes were extremely valuable, was > > > this done often? > > > >Ever read The Velveteen Rabbit? The child had scarlet fever and > >*everything* was burned. Even if your clothes were valuable, it wasn't > >worth the risk of catching the disease. Valuable Clothes mean nothing > >to a dead person. > >Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 23:01:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8D315vm013627 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 23:01:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D30U4d004583 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 21:00:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D30TBh064912; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 21:00:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8D30QBh064832 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 21:00:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m2.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABAWLDJ7AUXV74J for (sender ); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:59:41 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCng28M/+NKfBZP/MaOoNrYtmwpEndEB7QA== Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id J7DJP3QD; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:58:43 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:01:20 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases Message-ID: <20040912.200120.-116104709.4.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 5-6,8-15,17-18,21,23 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-ContentStamp: 8:4:3181423260 X-MAIL-INFO: 21ba7eef3bbb2eb72e77331abb97f777d3ef17efaa5e9eabbb972a5be7d7ee7ab37b7a1b1bb30a0a2b0a933a6a8a6e1f4e030e43fb0e4b4b432e2e3f X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am 42 and I don't seem to have a smallpox scar either. I do have a very small, light brown mark on my arm about where a traditional smallpox scar would be. I don't know if that's all the scar that happened (I'm pretty sure I was fully vaccinated, by mom was quite conscientious) or if perhaps I'm one of those mysterious 'already immune' people. Ah, the mysteries of life...... On a costume related note, it makes it very easy for me to wear shoulder revealing period dresses as there's no nasty scar to worry about. Karen On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:43:03 -0400 "Megan M." writes: > I can tell you that they were quarantined in Pittsburgh as well. My > mother told me stories of quarantine, including how lucky I was that when > I got scarlet fever I did not have to get quarantined like she did when > she had it. BTW, I'm only 41, but do not appear to have a smallpox scar. > -Megan ________________________________________________________________ Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 23:15:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8D3F4Dd013674 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 23:15:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D3E94d005343 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 21:14:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D3E5Bh071722; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 21:14:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D3DwBh071659 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 21:14:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.51] (p35.3c01.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.51]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i8D3C4603700 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 21:12:21 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <016201c4992c$d1a3cc00$7248d7cf@dnyeaqvf> References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A17@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> <016201c4992c$d1a3cc00$7248d7cf@dnyeaqvf> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <5B825256-0533-11D9-AF5F-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Court Garb in hot weather[ bit long] Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 21:16:52 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I used to think so too until I moved from California to Colorado 14 years ago. I absolutely LOVE our summer rains here. Now I think rain belongs in the summer since snow obviously belongs in the winter. ;-) Sylrog On Sep 12, 2004, at 6:54 PM, wrote: > > As a lifelong Californian, I have no idea what you're talking about. > Rain > is something that happens between October and May. Water falling from > the > sky in the summertime is just...WRONG. > > Margo > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 23:21:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8D3LYi0013708 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 23:21:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D3Kq4d005826 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 21:20:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D3KmBh075232; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 21:20:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web51301.mail.yahoo.com (web51301.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.167]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8D3KgBh075124 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 21:20:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elvestoorder@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040913032037.80728.qmail@web51301.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.237.35.220] by web51301.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:20:37 PDT Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:20:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Ann Catelli Subject: chenille flowers Re: [h-cost] raised/stumpwork flowers. To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <4144FE4E.9030807@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Have you ever investigated the book The Artful Ribbon, by Candace Kling? I'm not sure that it would help with your chenille flowers, but I suspect you could take some of her techniques & run with them. Ann in CT > > small bouquets of flowers spread along the > >ruches. Originally made with chenille threads. > > > >Bjarne __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 23:49:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8D3nqMF013849 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 23:49:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D3nE4d007591 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 21:49:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D3nCBh089565; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 21:49:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D3nABh089545 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 21:49:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C1102C067 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:49:10 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p537.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.213.30]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id F1C6EC582 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:49:08 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re:of bananas and other treats.... Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:49:08 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <000101c4991d$176ae800$5591d6cb@ewalpole> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Actually, some of those veggies were brought over with the possibility of becoming food. The potato probably would have become a staple had the sender thought to include in the instructions that you eat the root and not the plant. Elsewhere, Spain and Italy were eating new world food, maybe not as a main staple. De -----Original Message----- > But what about that banana (or skin) they just found this spring in a > rubbish pit that was like Tudorish era??? I think expanding > knowledge is fun Ta > Carol That's very tenuous documentation for eating modern commercially grown bananas at an event, a lot of the new world foods were first brought to England as botanical novelties not food, they weren't eaten, just put on display in wealthy houses. Also IIRC the Bananas we eat now are the result of lots of hybridising and don't bear a great deal of resemblance to the original wild bananas. Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole in OR in Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra, Australia ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 12 23:53:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8D3rHGX013867 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 23:53:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D3q34d007768 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 21:52:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D3q1Bh091014; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 21:52:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8D3pxBh090951 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 21:52:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m08.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABAWLGKGA6UGB6J for (sender ); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:51:02 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OmyD6yBCcFV1+0h/5O7QI3Y= Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id J7DMNPFZ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:50:24 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:46:41 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases Message-ID: <20040912.204935.1852.2.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-16,19-30 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-ContentStamp: 11:5:2210082889 X-MAIL-INFO: 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 59d929e57559e9e969 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Noted medieval historian Norman Cantor (book: In the Wake of the Plague) uses some of that research and suggests that at least one of the three strains of Plague, that being the respiratory, may have actually been a form of anthrax. Arlys > There's actually some (relatively) new research suggesting that > maybe the > medieval black plague wasn't actually the bacteria Yersinia pestis, > a group > of researchers are suggesting it might actually have been a virus. > See > http://www.abc.net.au/science/k2/moments/s714968.htm for a bit more > info. > Elizabeth > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- > ---- > Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole > in OR in > Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra, Australia > ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 00:23:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8D4NU8f014032 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 00:23:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D4Mh4d009697 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:22:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D4MaBh006843; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:22:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out005.verizon.net (out005pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.143]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D4MWBh006806 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:22:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from Fiona ([151.199.157.66]) by out005.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040913042229.BZEL7520.out005.verizon.net@Fiona> for ; Sun, 12 Sep 2004 23:22:29 -0500 From: "Ron Carnegie" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: burning of costume (was extinct disease) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 00:22:33 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040912190937.00c43de0@mail.katiesorchids.com> Importance: Normal X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out005.verizon.net from [151.199.157.66] at Sun, 12 Sep 2004 23:22:29 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Katie Pleasance > Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2004 9:16 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Extinct diseases > > > But what about the days before "germ theory"? In those days disease was > considered "a punishment from God" as much as anything else. Would they > have conceived that a sick person's clothes could carry disease? Do you > think that QEI burned all her clothes after recovering from smallpox? I > doubt it. She had gained immunity through surviving the disease but she > would not have known it; and any future lady-in-waiting that came into > contact with the clothes would be at risk, no? > > Katie >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Actually there is reference to burning clothing and blankets to stop disease before the discovery of Germ theory. I am not familiar with the more famous plague epidemics of the medieval period, but such burning did happen in the plague of 17th century London. I would be very surprised if the more Medieval inspired members of this list do not have some foresight on this matter. I just looked for the reference, and currently can not find it, but there are references to the blankets of small pox victims being left for enemy Indians during the French and Indian war (Seven Years War for you Europeans). An early form of Germ Warfare. The reference I am referring to but can not currently find in my notes is a primary source order from a British Officer to his men. People can learn a lot by observation. One of my favorite examples of this would be Jamestown just a few miles from my home. Jamestown was founded in a swamp. The residents of the city suffered greatly from disease and knew full well that life in a swamp was unhealthful. They misunderstood the reasons, giving the "miasmas" caused by bad air rather than germs carried by swamp borne insects, but they could clearly see the health effects. On the subject of small pox, some one mentioned earlier on this list 18th century "experiments" regarding small pox inoculations. By the third quarter of the 18th century these are not exactly experimental anymore though they do still cause a good deal of controversy. This had far more to do with the possibility of inoculation causing its own outbreak than anything else. I have been struggling to find a way to return this to topic, but can think of none but the very lame (references to the mask in Restoration for instance). Cheers, Ron Carnegie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 05:11:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8D9BTQ0014349 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 05:11:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D9Ae4d026536 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 03:10:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D9AJBh053103; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 03:10:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D9ADBh052727 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 03:10:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i8D99da05401.; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 10:09:39 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 10:09:39 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 10:09:16 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I had a smallpox inoculation (left upper arm) when there was a scare in about 1962. We all learned at school about Edward Jenner, who noticed in the late 18th century that milkmaids who had caught the mild disease cowpox were immune to smallpox, so he starrted giviong it to people delibgerately. Also in the early 60s, I was inoculated against polio by a series of injections. When I was part way through the course I went down with a mysterious feverish illness on a family holiday in South Wales. Apparently the local doctor kept asking if I could move my legs, so my mother believes that he suspected polio. She thinks maybe it was, but I was protected from any ill-effects by the jabs I'd already had. My aunt, a physiotherapist, had polio victims among her child patients in the same era. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 05:12:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8D9CdWM014353 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 05:12:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D9Bw4d026851 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 03:11:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D9BwBh053892; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 03:11:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8D9ArBh053241 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 03:10:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i8D9Aja05581.; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 10:10:45 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 10:10:45 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 10:10:31 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabeth I and smallpox Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> athurman@gmail.com 13/09/2004 02:34:47 >>> wrote: >I think Alison Weir's biography of Elizabeth mentioned that she wore a >mixture of alum and egg white from a fairly young age to hide her >unfashionably dark complexion. Dark complexion? Wasn't she a redhead? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 06:34:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DAYJHO014639 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 06:34:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DAXf4d001514 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 04:33:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DAXbBh093976; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 04:33:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from oldntserver.stoneage.mglarc.com ([212.17.54.27]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DAXTBh093831 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 04:33:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lstrid@mglarc.com) Received: by rfc1918.space.should.not.be.used.on.publicips with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) id ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 11:33:15 +0100 Message-ID: <87A506E53AFF4C4CB2C565044BA209E743D9A6@rfc1918.space.should.not.be.used.on.publicips> From: Lena Strid To: Historical Costume Subject: Viking brooches WAS: [h-cost] current and future work? Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 11:33:14 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i8DAXTBh093831 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I wrote: >> - Make a 10th century Hedeby/Křstrup apron dress so I would more blend in >> with the Hiberno-Norse group I sometimes play with. (hmmm, need to get >> tortoise shell brooches as well...) Cathy replied: > If you need ideas where to look for tortoise brooches, I have a list of favorite sites you may find useful... Yes, please... I'm aiming for a southern Scandinavian look, and most merchants (IIRC) seem to favour the Norwegian brooches. There's got to be someone out there that makes replicas of Danish/south Swedish tortoise shell brooches - I hope. /Lena ================================================= Margaret Gowen & Co. Ltd. Archaeological Consultants & Project Managers 2 Killiney View Tel: 01-2300433 Albert Road Lower Fax: 01-2300865 Glenageary e-mail: archaeology@mglarc.com Co. Dublin website: http://www.mglarc.com ================================================= CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email is private and confidential and may contain legally privileged information. If you are not named above as an addressee it may be unlawful for you to read, copy, distribute, disclose or otherwise use the information in this email. If you are not the intended recipient of this email please contact our systems administrator. Thank you. NOTE Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company or its associated companies unless otherwise specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 07:08:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DB8fCE014818 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 07:08:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DB7M4d003633 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 05:07:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DB7HBh011137; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 05:07:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.254.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DB7BBh011054 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 05:07:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 12:07:04 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: RE: [h-cost] rag doll prices (was RE: [h-cost] current and..) To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A24@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] rag doll prices (was RE: [h-cost] current and..) Thread-Index: AcSXTrsMIDhf2DDGSKCxnQOJFGT+0wCMpbjA content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.21 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >http://www.clothdollconnection.com > > > >Thanks! By he look of the prices on the dolls that are most similar to > >mine, my "outdated" prices are still in the right ballpark. > > Hope you saw my dolls there when you looked, tho I don't have > any prices posted. I did, but they are a very different creature from my own (more "traditional") dolls so I only had a quick look at them in passing. I particualrly like the three in the initial pictures on your site. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 07:31:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DBV0c9014977 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 07:31:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DBU34d005655 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 05:30:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DBU1Bh026155; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 05:30:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.254.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DBO0Bh022230 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 05:24:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 12:23:23 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: RE: [h-cost] What you all do with costumes To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A25@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] What you all do with costumes Thread-Index: AcSXfvsyILZ4YkIcShGQgwNjzVnb6ACBCzvw content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.21 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > ...am wondering what all of you out there do with the > costumes you make. I guess I'm both curious about the composition of > this group as well as wondering what other possibilities for > money-making with costumes there are. If not involved in the SCA or > with Renn Faires, what do you do? I'm in an English group that split off from the SCA over 25 years ago. I currently play the King. I'm in my second (three year) "term-of-office" and have a couple more years to go before the next election where I find out (if I stand again) whether I get in for another (final) three years, or whether someone else gets to be Monarch. > Are you in reenactment groups Yep, one 15th century, one late 14th centurey, used to be in a 17th century one too. > or role-playing groups? Yep. > When I first got started in theatre decades ago, that was > about the only venue available for costumers. Now the costuming world > has expanded so much. I got into historical costuming through making wearing and presenting costumes at Science Fiction convenions (I was always more interested in the "fantasy" side of things and lots of those sort of books have a pseudo medieval setting.... Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 07:32:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DBWWuO014983 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 07:32:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DBVx4d005751 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 05:31:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DBVwBh026973; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 05:31:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from alpha2.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (alpha2.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.0.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DBVuBh026945 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 05:31:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 12:31:50 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: RE: [h-cost] Wet damp weather garb (WAS: Court Garb in hot weather) To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A26@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Wet damp weather garb (WAS: Court Garb in hot weather) Thread-Index: AcSXfvsyILZ4YkIcShGQgwNjzVnb6ACBW7Ag content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.21 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Note: perhaps, though it is not life threatening, people can > say what they do for those wet/damp weekends as well as the > brisk weekends. Most of my kit is washable so getting it wet/damp isn't a problem from the maintence point of view (I'm in damp ol' England after all - mud is part of re-enactment life here) If it's just damp, I weather it and dry out, if it's an absolute downpour I shelter where I can and venture out if I have to (that's what cloaks and surcoats are for after all) Scotchguard on hems and outer garments helps if your wool cloak isn't as waterproof as you'd like. Unfortunately, the British public are used to rain so still turn up at events and expect to be entertained. I have actually seen fighters stop to empty the water out of their armour beofre carrying on with their display. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 08:15:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DCFulR015216 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 08:15:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DCFF4d008521 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 06:15:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DCF7Bh045456; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 06:15:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.254.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DCF4Bh045419 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 06:15:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 13:14:57 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: [h-cost] Diamond weave wool (with picture) To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A27@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Diamond weave wool (with picture) Thread-Index: AcSYEESwX0t6U+OMTSGb86vgB4B+8gBd552Q content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.21 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i8DCF4Bh045419 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO OK, for those of you that asked, I've found the sample and the details. It wasn't as inexpensive as I thought (I was mistakenly going by theprices of other fabrics from this supplier).. but the details are as follows; 8 shed diamond twill. Herdwick warp, Swaledale weft (ancient breed fleece) Ł20 (that's UK pounds) per metre, 1.5metres wide. The patten is onvious in grey and white (grey fibres one direction, white the other) which he had it woven in so it could be overdyed any colour. the diamonds are about three quarters of an inch across (point to point) and about an inch high. The suplier is: Dave Rushworth "Petty Chapman" Wool and Linen Fabric 92 Norman Road Birkby, Huddersfield, HD2 2UD Tel: 01484 480867 And I just found a photo of him with a piece of the diamond weave wool!!!!! http://www.reenactorsmarket.co.uk/gallery/rushworth.jpg Sorry - i thought I had an email addy for him, but I can't find it and I think he said he's more likely to get aorund to enquiries made by post or phone. Hope this helps Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 08:31:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DCVtQg015305 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 08:31:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DCVF4d009625 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 06:31:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DCVEBh052812; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 06:31:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.202]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DCVCBh052801 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 06:31:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from athurman@gmail.com) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 79so389407rnl for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 05:31:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.78.78 with SMTP id a78mr1284062rnb; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 05:31:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.164.19 with HTTP; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 05:31:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7d21ac19040913053175bb4ea4@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 08:31:06 -0400 From: "A. Thurman" To: Historic Costume List Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Extinct Diseases X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I would think that they would have noticed that anyone coming in contact with infected clothes also got sick, just through observation. Maybe less of a historic costume than a historic medicine question - did people in earlier centuries figure this out, before the discovery of germs? Allison T. Message: 1 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:15:48 -0700 From: Katie Pleasance Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Extinct diseases To: Historical Costume Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040912190937.00c43de0@mail.katiesorchids.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed But what about the days before "germ theory"? In those days disease was considered "a punishment from God" as much as anything else. Would they have conceived that a sick person's clothes could carry disease? Do you think that QEI burned all her clothes after recovering from smallpox? I doubt it. She had gained immunity through surviving the disease but she would not have known it; and any future lady-in-waiting that came into contact with the clothes would be at risk, no? Katie I wonder what they did to the clothes of > > people who died of such infectious diseases? I'm guessing they were > > burnt, but in times places when clothes were extremely valuable, was > > this done often? > >Ever read The Velveteen Rabbit? The child had scarlet fever and >*everything* was burned. Even if your clothes were valuable, it wasn't >worth the risk of catching the disease. Valuable Clothes mean nothing >to a dead person. >Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 09:06:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DD6vao015518 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:06:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DD6O4d012194 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 07:06:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DD6MBh070056; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 07:06:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DD6JBh070029 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 07:06:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA29898 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 08:13:27 -0500 Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 08:13:26 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extinct Diseases In-Reply-To: <7d21ac19040913053175bb4ea4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 13 Sep 2004, A. Thurman wrote: > I would think that they would have noticed that anyone coming in > contact with infected clothes also got sick, just through observation. > Maybe less of a historic costume than a historic medicine question - > did people in earlier centuries figure this out, before the discovery > of germs? Yes. Quarantines were common in the time of the Death (1340s) and later visits of the plague. Petrarch, I think it was, in his plague memoirs, talked about how the disease was so virulent it could pass without direct contact. He wrote of dogs sniffing a dead man's clothing and then dying. Plague as we know it doesn't kill dogs, but the point is that people associated the transfer of the disease with clothing. (And of course the illness at any particular spot might have been something other than plague itself -- as someone noted, there are a number of theories running around these days, and very possibly there was a combination of diseases concurrently that all appeared to be one "plague.") Although they understood the idea of contagion through direct contact, through contact with objects, and through "tainted air," they didn't necessarily know which means of transmission was in play for a given disease, and they probably didn't know about incubation periods during which a symptomless person could be contagious. Despite best efforts with quarantine, plague spread from one house to another, and one town to another -- probably via the rats that ran freely from one place to the next. --Robin who at least mentioned clothes this time _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 09:10:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DDAsNw015543 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:10:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DDAF4d012464 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 07:10:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DDAFBh071972; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 07:10:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DDACBh071917 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 07:10:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m197.in-tch.com [216.166.191.197]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i8DD9K805097 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 07:09:20 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <41459D35.8040903@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 07:14:29 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases References: <4.3.1.2.20040912102606.026abd08@mail.frys.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040911124657.00baabd0@mail.katiesorchids.com> <7FBB02B3-0361-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> <4.3.1.2.20040912115434.024368b0@mail.frys.com> In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20040912115434.024368b0@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Plague is far from extinct, since it hangs out pretty good in some wild animal populations (especially prairie dogs, IIRC). Where we human animals might get complacent about it, though, is that it's largely treatable with the right antibiotics. My favorite historical novel that deals with this sort of topic is "The Doomsday Book," by Cynthia? Willis. --sue, who was born in 1960, has the smallpox vacc. scar (upper arm), and had a friend in college who'd had polio (only person I ever knew who did)....She contracted when she was less than 2 weeks old, before she ever had a chance at the shots, and had one arm that was a bit smaller than the other, and which had less range of motion/functionality Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >> I'm going to agree with that statement even though I titled the thread >> "extinct diseases". I read recently that a few cases of polio have >> shown up in eastern Africa, much to the surprise of the medical >> establishment. > > > Extinction is forever, so we get complacent about diseases labeled as > extinct. Bubonic plague is still around too, and I heard a rumor that > Albuquerque, New Mexico, sees one or two cases of it every year. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 09:15:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DDF0n4015557 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:15:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DDEE4d012672 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 07:14:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DDEEBh073957; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 07:14:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mclean.mail.mindspring.net (mclean.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.57]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DDEABh073919 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 07:14:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cahuff@mindspring.com) Received: from user-2inik3p.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.121.80.121] helo=[10.0.1.2]) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1C6qen-0008NC-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:14:09 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200409130117.i8D1H3Bj012034@net.indra.com> References: <200409130117.i8D1H3Bj012034@net.indra.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:14:04 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: fastusminimus Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: bananas as costume.... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 7:17 PM -0600 9/12/04, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: > > But what about that banana (or skin) they just found this spring in a >> rubbish pit that was like Tudorish era??? I think expanding >> knowledge is fun > Ta >> Carol > >That's very tenuous documentation for eating modern commercially grown >bananas at an event, a lot of the new world foods were first brought to >England as botanical novelties not food, they weren't eaten, just put on >display in wealthy houses. Also IIRC the Bananas we eat now are the result >of lots of hybridising and don't bear a great deal of resemblance to the >original wild bananas. >Elizabeth But I can get many diff varieties of bananas in the Gringo stores here in the Eastern USA and the Hispanic stores have an even better produce section... And hey it beats the heck outta a turkey leg as a costume (as in temp,disposable ) prop....(see obligatory costume content ) Ta Carol, who luvs to shop in little hole in the wall stores! -- Creative Clutter is Better Than Idle Neatness! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 09:18:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DDI5mx015566 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:18:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DDHO4d012936 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 07:17:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DDHLBh075371; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 07:17:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8DDHKBh075323 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 07:17:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m2.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABAWMHQHAYDHY5A for (sender ); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 06:16:55 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCng28M/+NKfBnS5T2NAR1Yx8ujF9SnYiRw== Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id J7EM2UJ2; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 06:16:17 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 08:15:41 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabeth I and smallpox Message-ID: <20040913.081541.-773491.1.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 5-6,14-20,22-43 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-ContentStamp: 16:8:3598239194 X-MAIL-INFO: 42d0c4d1551415d09d55a07d418410c40d7d511040059d10ada06560ed6001f071e0e96015001529bd75b5712dbd81e924710081dd4049814d4521203420a9c1e1ed892039a439f5313d64e19131508919e1a45084ddc434a46df960f9f494856d6555f4fd347134649d61416d657dc0400045003020ed30208db4208db4c051e074e98015e115bd0c25712d150d35a450145099d5d099d5f494d5f4707db96dc5cdfdc59d9dcd414105419195b0e1f401a0518029c080e0e029e5e575 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As far as I know, she had strawberry blonde hair as a young girl which was typical of the Tudors, although she had dark brown eyes. All the pictures show her as very, very pale although there is one description of her by a foreign ambassador that refers to darker skin. One biography I read thought she might have been suffering from a liver ailment at the time and her skin might have been somewhat yellowed from jaundice. As long as we are discussing medical issues along with costuming- one somewhat scurrilous book postulated that all the children of Henry VIII suffered from the effects of syphilis contracted in the womb from daddy. This is supposed to explain the noxious smell that some reported as coming from Mary I's nose, the weakness and sudden death of Edward, and Elizabeth's extreme pallor and probable sterility.....which puts it in direct contradiction to the theories that have her giving birth to Southhampton, Francis Bacon, et al. Ain't history grand! Karen On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 10:10:31 +0100 "Kate M Bunting" writes: > > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby > > >>> athurman@gmail.com 13/09/2004 02:34:47 >>> wrote: > > >I think Alison Weir's biography of Elizabeth mentioned that she > wore > a > >mixture of alum and egg white from a fairly young age to hide her > >unfashionably dark complexion. > > Dark complexion? Wasn't she a redhead? > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ________________________________________________________________ Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 09:20:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DDKJ6U015577 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:20:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DDJa4d013121 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 07:19:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DDJZBh076483; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 07:19:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DDJXBh076423 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 07:19:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i8DDJRa02731.; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:19:27 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:19:27 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:19:05 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extinct Diseases Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> athurman@gmail.com 13/09/2004 13:31:06 >>> >I would think that they would have noticed that anyone coming in >contact with infected clothes also got sick, just through observation. >Maybe less of a historic costume than a historic medicine question - >did people in earlier centuries figure this out, before the discovery >of germs? >Allison T. I remember reading that large amounts of clothing and soft furnishings were destroyed unneccesarily following (I think) yellow fever, before it was proved that the disease was spread by mosquito bites and not by contagion. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 09:48:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DDmwe2015747 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:48:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DDmB4d015517 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 07:48:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DDmABh092407; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 07:48:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from alpha2.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (alpha2.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.0.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DDm7Bh092375 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 07:48:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:48:01 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: the word "kit" To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A28@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Re: the word "kit" Thread-Index: AcSYR0AGvzQxe1CkTj+gTIgMuvqqZgBUItbw content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.21 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >I'm going to make a stab at it and see if I'm right! As I understand > >it, the word "kit" is used by many reenactment groups to mean all the > >"stuff" that appertains to their costume and/or the role they play. So > >it would mean their belts, knives, shoes, spoons, hatpins, etc. Not > >just the garments. I don't know if it also includes furniture and camp > >things. In the US we generally use the word "kit" to mean gathered > >parts you assemble into something else, such as a model airplane kit, > >but this is more in line with the (here) old soldier's "kit bag" use, > >ie "Pack up your troubles in your old kit bag and smile, smile, smile!" > > > >Gail Finke > > > This is correct, but "kit" is used in both senses, eg: > "we have so much kit we had to buy a larger car" and > "sometimes I just walk to events in kit, rather than change > when I get there" > > A lot of British reenactors also use "civvies" (ie, civilian clothes) > for modern clothing, from the same military background. And to add to what Jean said, a some refer to non-re-enactors as "grockles" (that isn't as common) and those who came into re-enactment via SF fandom slip and refer to them byt the SF community name for non fannish types and call them "Mundanes". Yesterday, when we were coming towards the end of the day I asked someone if they were going to, "travel home in kit or change into your mundanes?" Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 09:58:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DDwTph015892 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:58:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DDvm4d017399 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 07:57:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DDvlBh098392; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 07:57:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DDvfBh098285 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 07:57:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from FyneHats2@aol.com) Received: from FyneHats2@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.4.) id 6.e0.10e02f6 (4362) for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:57:33 -0400 (EDT) From: FyneHats2@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:57:33 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6032 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: extinct diseases X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/12/2004 8:18:03 PM Central Daylight Time, "Genie" < kerowyn@mindspring.com> writes: > Funny thing, one of my younger sister's smallpox vaccination did not > "take". Twice they gave it to her and no scab/scar ever appeared. She had a > natural immunity Same thing happened to me! I was born in 1952 so smallpox shots were required for school. My twin brother has his "vaccination mark" on his left arm but mine never appeared. I got it again, but still no "mark" appeared, just a little blue point where the injection was made. The nurse also told me that I must have some kind of natural immunity. It just seem to mean when all the other childhood diseases (mumps, measles, chickenpox) went around my family (twin brother and triplet sisters) I happened to get just enough to say I had it but was nowhere as miserable as my siblings. Unfortunately, it does not seem to be genetic as my kids have all had the chicken pox (3 of them in one month) and were as sick as kids usually are with it. Donna Scarfe Fyne Hats By Felicity Period Headgear for Past Ages www.fynehatsbyfelicity.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 10:07:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DE7Ic7015953 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 10:07:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DE6I4d018327 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 08:06:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DE6EBh004444; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 08:06:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DE6BBh004347 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 08:06:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-8.13) id A94B1EF4005A; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 10:06:03 -0400 Received: from 209.131.86.86 ([209.131.86.86] helo=rmitchell) by ASSP-nospam ; 13 Sep 04 14:06:03 -0000 Message-ID: <002501c4999a$cd06ba40$565683d1@washjeff.edu> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extinct Diseases Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 10:06:01 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It is notoriously the case that one of the most effective, and widely used, early methods of bringing down the Indian population, in both North and South America, was to give them blankets infected with smallpox. The epidemics that resulted decimated many of the native tribes. Lloyd Mitchell (for Kathleen) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 9:19 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extinct Diseases > > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby > > >>> athurman@gmail.com 13/09/2004 13:31:06 >>> > >I would think that they would have noticed that anyone coming in > >contact with infected clothes also got sick, just through > observation. > >Maybe less of a historic costume than a historic medicine question - > >did people in earlier centuries figure this out, before the discovery > >of germs? > > >Allison T. > > I remember reading that large amounts of clothing and soft furnishings > were destroyed unneccesarily following (I think) yellow fever, before it > was proved that the disease was spread by mosquito bites and not by > contagion. > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 10:11:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DEBNWr015982 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 10:11:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DEAW4d018776 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 08:10:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DEAVBh007232; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 08:10:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41509.mail.yahoo.com (web41509.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.92]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8DEAUBh007135 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 08:10:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celtic_dragonrider@yahoo.ca) Message-ID: <20040913141023.20805.qmail@web41509.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.82.52.78] by web41509.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 10:10:23 EDT Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 10:10:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Janet Renzetti Subject: RE: [h-cost] Wet damp weather garb (WAS: Court Garb in hot weather) To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A26@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO YEs that is pretty much how it is here. I am from British COlumbia. We get drenched and shiver and still carry on. We just completed a Tourney this last weekend and people showed up. SHeltered durin the downpouir and went out during the breaks, We wrung out our wet stuff and found dryer stuff to put on. Nothing is ever sompletely dry at a camping event. I have court outfits and Event outfits AKA Dry clean/gently wash and throw in the washing maching and dry. SO I dont worry too much about the weather for the outfits so much as keeping my kids from getting sick. Janet Teddy wrote: Most of my kit is washable so getting it wet/damp isn't a problem from the maintence point of view (I'm in damp ol' England after all - mud is part of re-enactment life here) If it's just damp, I weather it and dry out, if it's an absolute downpour I shelter where I can and venture out if I have to (that's what cloaks and surcoats are for after all) Scotchguard on hems and outer garments helps if your wool cloak isn't as waterproof as you'd like. Unfortunately, the British public are used to rain so still turn up at events and expect to be entertained. I have actually seen fighters stop to empty the water out of their armour beofre carrying on with their display. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 10:28:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DESUhc016029 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 10:28:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DEMn4d019973 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 08:22:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DEMiBh015452; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 08:22:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DEMeBh015384 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 08:22:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from sdn-ap-009masprip0061.dialsprint.net ([63.186.144.61]) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1C6rj4-00038t-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 10:22:38 -0400 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 10:23:26 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases From: ruthanne baumgartner To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO on 9/12/04 6:11 PM, Robin Netherton at robin@shell.nightowl.net wrote: > How do I know all this? Because my day job is as a medical editor. Since I > also have a specialty in medieval history, I seem to be the person who > gets called when someone needs an article done on the medical history of > plague. Nice when my two specialties intersect like that. > > --Robin > who really truly was trying to resist contributing to an off-topic thread I'm the one who started this off-topic thread (by way of a little parenthetical comment!), and I must say I'm really grateful that people picked it up, because I've learned so much and have also felt a bond with the people my age who shared memories. And of course there are costume connections--masks, burning clothes, etc. For me the real costume connection is that in the 'seventies, when shoes with hugely built-up soles were popular, I found myself thinking "polio" FIRST whenever I saw a student walking along in them (okay, I never found myself thinking "fashion," but I did of course remember "fad" as a quick second thought). That's what built-up shoes signified to my generation, at least in our youth. My father had a younger friend who had had polio and who wore one built-up shoe and a leg brace; same for my best friend's cousin. This will be historic costuming information soon, if not already--and we can thank medical research and a lot of stalwart sufferers that it HAS become history. Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 10:36:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DEalBl016147 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 10:36:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DEUs4d020964 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 08:30:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DEUrBh021355; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 08:30:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.254.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DEUoBh021317 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 08:30:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:30:40 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: Wet weather garb/English Summers (WAS: Court Garb in hot weather) To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A2A@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] RE: Wet weather garb/English Summers (WAS: Court Garb in hot weather) Thread-Index: AcSZL7ZI6r3jjeTkSGWS0ptdi+IYZQAbjF2Q content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.21 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > >Note: perhaps, though it is not life threatening, people can say what they > > >do for those wet/damp weekends as well as the brisk weekends. > > As a lifelong Californian, I have no idea what you're talking > about. Rain is something that happens between October and > May. Water falling from the sky in the summertime is just...WRONG. Margo, you and Wayne come over and visit me one summer and I'll show you what it's like over here. A "lovely summer evening" in England can often mean that the rain is nice and warm.... Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 11:02:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DF2rmG016304 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 11:02:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DF2A4d025017 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:02:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DF1eBh043475; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:01:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DF1bBi043446 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:01:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i8DFP5R9026547 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 11:25:06 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040913075758.00bae128@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 08:01:33 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Nah, Ruth Anne, you made a passing remark in a post and I turned it into a full thread. Yep, I remember my sister's shoes. One was normal and the other had a very thick bottom. The bottom of the leg brace was anchored between the normal sole and the thickened sole. The weekend (which is usually slow) is over. I propose that we wrap up this thread by noon and get back on topic! Katie, who has enjoyed the weekend interlude but looks forward to some meaty on-topic posts . >I'm the one who started this off-topic thread (by way of a little >parenthetical comment!), and I must say I'm really grateful that people >picked it up, because I've learned so much and have also felt a bond with >the people my age who shared memories. >And of course there are costume connections--masks, burning clothes, etc. >For me the real costume connection is that in the 'seventies, when shoes >with hugely built-up soles were popular, I found myself thinking "polio" >FIRST whenever I saw a student walking along in them (okay, I never found >myself thinking "fashion," but I did of course remember "fad" as a quick >second thought). That's what built-up shoes signified to my generation, at >least in our youth. My father had a younger friend who had had polio and who >wore one built-up shoe and a leg brace; same for my best friend's cousin. >This will be historic costuming information soon, if not already--and we can >thank medical research and a lot of stalwart sufferers that it HAS become >history. > >Ruth Anne Baumgartner >scholar gypsy and amateur costumer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 11:21:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DFLAND016380 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 11:21:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DFJ04d027336 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:19:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DFIlBh056538; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:18:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8DFIjBh056475 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:18:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 25414 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2004 15:19:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO webmail.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com with SMTP; 13 Sep 2004 15:19:44 -0000 Received: from 24.4.69.40 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com); by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 08:18:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1055.24.4.69.40.1095088721.squirrel@24.4.69.40> In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040912181824.075f07e0@mail.katiesorchids.com> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040912181824.075f07e0@mail.katiesorchids.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 08:18:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Jane Austin movies From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a X-Mailer: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I just picked up the BBC versions of Jane Austin's "Sense and > Sensibility", > "Pride and Prejudice", "Persuasion", and "Mansfield Park" at Costco for > about US$10 each. I also picked up "Vanity Fair", the A&E/BBC version for around $22 dollars. I hadn't heard much about it but it was well done. Hard to watch, though, because many of the characters are not very nice. It is sort of like a more realistic picture of Jane Austen's time. And I didn't think I liked it all that much until I saw the new version out in theaters. They made Becky look pretty nice compared to what the A&E version showed! And the other characters were a bit flat also. Diana Diana Habra www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 11:45:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DFj3cM016613 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 11:45:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DFiG4d000348 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:44:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DFiABh076095; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:44:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DFi3Bi076021 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:44:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i8DG7VR9006648 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 12:07:31 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040913083250.00bcf9b8@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 08:44:00 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: Re: [h-cost] Jane Austin movies In-Reply-To: <1055.24.4.69.40.1095088721.squirrel@24.4.69.40> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040912181824.075f07e0@mail.katiesorchids.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040912181824.075f07e0@mail.katiesorchids.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bbbb...Bbut..., what were the costumes like in the two versions of Vanity Fair? I liked some of the costumes in the Jane Austin movies -- I've always loved Empire / Regency gowns I found the acting in the BBC Jane Austin movies to be 'arch' - overacted to the point of being overbearing and almost painful to watch. And, oh, the characters! -- either insipid or viciously greedy and status-conscious to the point that I almost consider the movies to be parodies of how the 'rich and famous' of the era lived. Katie, who wants to make up some Regency gowns just to wear around the house . Ooo! La! they are *so* luscious! I swoon at the thought of them!!! >I also picked up "Vanity Fair", the A&E/BBC version for around $22 >dollars. I hadn't heard much about it but it was well done. Hard to >watch, though, because many of the characters are not very nice. It is >sort of like a more realistic picture of Jane Austen's time. >And I didn't think I liked it all that much until I saw the new version >out in theaters. They made Becky look pretty nice compared to what the >A&E version showed! And the other characters were a bit flat also. >Diana _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 11:58:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DFw2CH016644 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 11:58:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DFuw4d001933 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:56:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DFuuBh085978; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:56:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DFuhBi085770 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:56:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i8DGK6R9010231 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 12:20:06 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040913085135.00c4b570@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 08:56:34 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance In-Reply-To: <20040912084852.61154.qmail@web53104.mail.yahoo.com> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040912001616.024cbc90@64.87.54.245> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] shearling wool X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think it was on this list that somebody commented about wool slippers and that it was important that the wool be / not be 'shearling'. My wonderful made-in-New Zealand sheepskin slippers are finally dying. Costco has some 'shearling' wool slippers. I've forgotten whether shearling is good or bad . I thought that I had saved the message, but couldn't find it when I searched. Also, is there any way to make such slippers look medieval / renaissance? Thanks, Katie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 12:04:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DG4AOR016665 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 12:04:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DG3L4d002782 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 10:03:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DG3HBh091072; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 10:03:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8DG3BBh090893 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 10:03:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m08.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABAWMTEQAVGCFXJ for (sender ); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:02:22 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/Oo9A76PrFZcQdFaFJlUCFD0= Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id J7EXHZXB; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:01:51 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 08:04:50 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:of bananas and other treats.... Message-ID: <20040913.090113.1780.1.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-3 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-ContentStamp: 2:2:994879591 X-MAIL-INFO: 1ca5ed5849cd4161413d855ccdf59d3d2858f15811bc15adcdf5058855ec8c6ccce56c7878ccb1b16db1c918b598a129016500bd1d000c0cbd4141b8 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've often wondered if the so-called bananas were actually plantains. Any thoughts? Arlys ________________________________________________________________ Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 12:14:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DGEMTM016717 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 12:14:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DGDV4d004141 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 10:13:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DGDOBh099189; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 10:13:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DGDGBi099076 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 10:13:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-184.sonic.net [209.148.112.184]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i8DGDEMP004997 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:13:15 -0700 Message-ID: <4145C741.2020202@lavoltapress.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:13:53 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Jane Austin movies References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040912181824.075f07e0@mail.katiesorchids.com> <1055.24.4.69.40.1095088721.squirrel@24.4.69.40> In-Reply-To: <1055.24.4.69.40.1095088721.squirrel@24.4.69.40> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >I also picked up "Vanity Fair", the A&E/BBC version for around $22 >dollars. I hadn't heard much about it but it was well done. > I think it's extremely well done. >Hard to >watch, though, because many of the characters are not very nice. > I've always admired Becky Sharp tremendously. She's intelligent, clever, a witty conversationalist, and an excellent amateur musician. (And she makes her own dresses, including apparently her own court dress, judging from the dialog in the book. Thackery says "she had as good taste as any milliner in Europe.") Most of all, she's endlessly courageous and persistent. _Vanity Fair_ can be seen as largely about the tragedy of such a woman being in a position where society allows her little to do but be a wife, mother, and hostess. Amelia Sedley, the "perfect" Victorian women, is stupid, insipid, and passive to the point of self-desctruction. Thackeray even says he got notes from female readers of the magazine serial saying Amelia was insipid, and less of her already. Fran Grimble Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming Two new books of 1870s and 1880s patterns! http://www.lavoltapress.com > It is >sort of like a more realistic picture of Jane Austen's time. > >And I didn't think I liked it all that much until I saw the new version >out in theaters. They made Becky look pretty nice compared to what the >A&E version showed! And the other characters were a bit flat also. > >Diana > >Diana Habra >www.RenaissanceFabrics.net >"Everything for the Costumer" > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 12:25:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DGPAdt016794 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 12:25:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DGOO4d005555 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 10:24:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DGOIBh008435; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 10:24:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DGOFBi008386 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 10:24:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i8DGMGTA011831 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 12:22:16 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 12:22:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4145C9AD.8090108@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 12:24:13 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] shearling wool References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040912001616.024cbc90@64.87.54.245> <5.2.0.9.0.20040913085135.00c4b570@mail.katiesorchids.com> In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040913085135.00c4b570@mail.katiesorchids.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Katie Pleasance wrote: > I've forgotten whether shearling is good or bad . It was me. Real shearling is the leather of the sheep with the wool still attached to it, just shorn short. So there's no glue involved, which means the slippers don't get sweaty. Pretend shearling has leather with fuzzy fabrics of various sorts (sometimes even wool) glued onto it, which makes it pretty much plastic-coated leather. Rather sweaty. However, in the US, the term "shearling" is not regulated (much like "white chocolate") so you could get anything from the real stuff through terrible plasticy stuff. I've even seen polyester fleece described as "shearling." Coats are also made of shearling; same cautions apply. As for making the slippers look medieval, probably not. However, if the outside is plain, they might pass under skirts. Shearling is usually not dyed much, so it's most commonly seen in medium brown on the leather and cream color of the wool. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent For nonsqueamish gourmets: "At peace with my role in the food chain" BBQ Apron -- http://www.cafepress.com/virtueventures _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 12:38:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DGcE34016909 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 12:38:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DGbW4d007040 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 10:37:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DGbRBh018888; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 10:37:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DGbLBi018799 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 10:37:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-148.sonic.net [209.148.112.148]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i8DGbJQM012097 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:37:20 -0700 Message-ID: <4145CCE7.3070002@lavoltapress.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:37:59 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Jane Austin movies References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040912181824.075f07e0@mail.katiesorchids.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040912181824.075f07e0@mail.katiesorchids.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040913083250.00bcf9b8@mail.katiesorchids.com> In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040913083250.00bcf9b8@mail.katiesorchids.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't know if you mean Jane Austin's heroines, but most were clinging to the lower strata of the upper classes and had relatives who were down in the middle classes. Marriage was pretty much the only economic option for such a woman. Finding a husband was like finding a job/career. It had to be the best possible choice because it was likely to last the rest of the woman's life, and it was likely to affect the career and marriage prospects of her siblings and other family members. Jane Austin herself never made any real money from writing. She, her widowed mother, and her spinster sister Cassandra ended their days as dependents on a brother who was lucky enough to get adopted as the heir of a rather distant wealthy relative. Without their brother's support they would probably have been impoverished. Or Jane would have had to marry the affluent (but apparently, not sufficiently lovable) suitor whose sisters (Jane's friends) pushed him to make a proposal when Jane seemed about doomed to spinsterhood. Austin was quite realistic about women's financial options for her social class in her books. Fran Grimble Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com > And, oh, the characters! -- either insipid or viciously greedy and > status-conscious to the point that I almost consider the movies to be > parodies of how the 'rich and famous' of the era lived. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 12:50:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DGobxc017426 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 12:50:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DGmo4d008307 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 10:48:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DGmVBh027517; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 10:48:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com ([199.170.202.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DGlkBh026953 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 10:47:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i8DH8iTP068719 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 13:08:44 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: (from sfarmer@localhost) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3/Submit) id i8DH8iPn068718 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 13:08:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 13:08:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Farmer Message-Id: <200409131708.i8DH8iPn068718@sabre.goldsword.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:of bananas and other treats.... In-Reply-To: <20040913.090113.1780.1.Cley@juno.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > I've often wondered if the so-called bananas were actually plantains. Any > thoughts? Well, bananas (Musa acuminata x M. paradisiaca) are indeed kin to plantains (M. paradisiaca). http://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/banana.html http://www.congocookbook.com/c0048.html Jerusha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 13:23:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DHNfZX017716 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 13:23:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DHLs4d012952 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 11:21:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DHLoBh055763; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 11:21:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DHLlBh055729 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 11:21:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.104] (pm7-104.eos.net [205.133.149.104]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i8DHLevK003785 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 13:21:41 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 13:18:03 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200409130211.i8D2BMBi039978@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: iron lungs, smallpox X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Actually, many people did only have to use iron lungs for a short time. Mia Farrow's biography (a pretty strange read) has a bit about how she was taken to a hospital as a child, and put in an iron lung for a few days. I guess it would be pretty frightening for a small child. Here is some interesting and costume-related smallpox information: A recent book about the development of the smallpox vaccine tells the story of a woman who was partially responsible for it. She was Lady Something-or-other, and I don't know the name of the book, but it was published within the year so a librarian should be able to identify it easily. I heard the author on the radio, and thought it quite interesting, but not interesting enough to read further. Anyway, it was an English lady whose husband was posted to India or some country in the region. She was astonished to find that harem women had gorgeous skin -- no smallpox marks. And then she discovered that these women inoculated their children against smallpox in some low-tech way that I forget, by scratching their skin and putting smallpox scabs against the wound, or something similar. Anyway, the author talked a bit about the sorts of clothes the two groups of women wore, and how much the English fashions covered up smallpox scars while the harem clothes didn't. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 13:28:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DHSVV8017760 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 13:28:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DHRj4d013518 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 11:27:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DHRgBh060279; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 11:27:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DHRbBh060108 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 11:27:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from webwarren@earthlink.net) Received: from cottontail.webwarren.com (pcp0010285386pcs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.44.18.221]) by webwarren.com (8.12.10/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i8DHRJVH032664 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 13:27:21 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.0.20040913131735.03a5e958@earthlink.net> X-Sender: n2kye@mail.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 13:23:53 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fwd: Solar powered jacket In-Reply-To: <200409121923.i8CJN4Bi043525@net.indra.com> References: <200409121923.i8CJN4Bi043525@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At Sun, 12 Sep 2004 12:13:20 -0700, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: >>http://www.scottevest.com/pressrelease/sev_solar/index.html > >Not an endorsement, only a FYI - I'm certainly not going to buy one of >these. The jacket comes with photo-voltaic panels on the back, and lots >of pockets in which to put your PDA, cell phone, etc. which can use the >chargeable battery the jacket also comes with. I purchased earlier scottevests (2.0 and 2.0 Sport) for Frank and myself when they were new. Great for holding gear, but all the weight of that gear hung from my shoulders and got uncomfortable very quickly. It was EXTREMELY useful for air flight, though, since it does NOT count as a piece of luggage or carryon or handbag, and when we went to Las Vegas in 2002, I still needed to carry around a train case of drugs and personal medical supplies, in addition to always carrying around my notebook computer in ITs case, so I needed that garment just to carry what would normally fit into my handbag so I could pack the (empty) handbag into my (checked) valise. I've since shrunk too far out of my 2.0 Sport to wear, but it fits Frank just fine now that he's lost a bit of weight as well, so the investment has not at ALL gone to waste. The solar-powered one sounds absolutely GREAT for when we do ham radio communications for events like the NYC Marathon. Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 13:48:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DHmAPm017953 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 13:48:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DHl54d015794 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 11:47:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DHl1Bh075175; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 11:47:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail10.mdx.safepages.com (mail10.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.33]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DHkvBh075084 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 11:46:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail10.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 0065C20784; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:46:59 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust99.tnt1.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.148.99]) by mail10.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 06553206B6 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:46:58 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <02b201c499b9$a8d298f0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040912001616.024cbc90@64.87.54.245><5.2.0.9.0.20040913085135.00c4b570@mail.katiesorchids.com> <4145C9AD.8090108@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] shearling wool Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 12:46:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO So, to clarify, _real_ shearling _is_ a good thing? Here's hoping, since I plan to order enough for a gown lining in the next month! =} -E, impatiently waiting for pertinent books to arrive in the mail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 13:51:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DHpmrh017973 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 13:51:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DHoC4d016271 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 11:50:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DHo7Bh077790; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 11:50:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DHngBi077439 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 11:49:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i8DIDCR9013384 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:13:13 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040913104208.028bde10@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 10:49:38 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: Re: [h-cost] Jane Austin movies In-Reply-To: <4145CCE7.3070002@lavoltapress.com> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040913083250.00bcf9b8@mail.katiesorchids.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040912181824.075f07e0@mail.katiesorchids.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040912181824.075f07e0@mail.katiesorchids.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040913083250.00bcf9b8@mail.katiesorchids.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As I've been watching the movies, drooling over some of the dresses, it constantly comes to my mind that the author must have been a horribly bitter and unhappy woman. What you say about her life explains it. She desperately wanted to climb to a higher social class and failed at the game of getting a good (rich + personally acceptable) husband and became a shrill critic of the system. Did she prefer dramatic impoverishment over the option of marrying somebody who lacked the social / financial status that she seems to have craved? As always, my opinion, BTW, what are the best sources for Regency / Empire dress patterns? Katie At 09:37 AM 9/13/2004 -0700, you wrote: >I don't know if you mean Jane Austin's heroines, but most were clinging to >the lower strata of the upper classes and had relatives who were down in >the middle classes. Marriage was pretty much the only economic option for >such a woman. Finding a husband was like finding a job/career. It had to >be the best possible choice because it was likely to last the rest of the >woman's life, and it was likely to affect the career and marriage >prospects of her siblings and other family members. >Jane Austin herself never made any real money from writing. She, her >widowed mother, and her spinster sister Cassandra ended their days as >dependents on a brother who was lucky enough to get adopted as the heir of >a rather distant wealthy relative. Without their brother's support they >would probably have been impoverished. Or Jane would have had to marry the >affluent (but apparently, not sufficiently lovable) suitor whose sisters >(Jane's friends) pushed him to make a proposal when Jane seemed about >doomed to spinsterhood. Austin was quite realistic about women's >financial options for her social class in her books. > >Fran Grimble _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 14:13:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DIDCjI018116 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:13:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DICJ4d019003 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 12:12:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DICFBh096130; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 12:12:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DIBuBi095785 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 12:12:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i8DI9rTA012238 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:09:53 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:09:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4145E2E5.2090109@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:11:49 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] shearling wool References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040912001616.024cbc90@64.87.54.245><5.2.0.9.0.20040913085135.00c4b570@mail.katiesorchids.com> <4145C9AD.8090108@thibault.org> <02b201c499b9$a8d298f0$0400a8c0@compaqub> In-Reply-To: <02b201c499b9$a8d298f0$0400a8c0@compaqub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO E House wrote: > So, to clarify, _real_ shearling _is_ a good thing? Here's hoping, since I > plan to order enough for a gown lining in the next month! =} It's great for shoes and coats. A gown lining? I'd think it would be way too thick. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Silmarillion: The Musical -- The very secret diaries _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 14:20:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DIKr8m018153 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:20:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DIJn4d019805 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 12:19:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DIJfBh001774; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 12:19:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (chori.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DIJcBh001676 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 12:19:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ldownward@chori.org) X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Sophos http://raeinternet.com/mpp Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP-TLS id 1396220 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 11:19:30 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.0.0.040405 Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 11:19:29 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ruthanne said: > > I'm the one who started this off-topic thread (by way of a little > parenthetical comment!), and I must say I'm really grateful that people > picked it up, because I've learned so much and have also felt a bond with > the people my age who shared memories. > And of course there are costume connections--masks, burning clothes, etc. > For me the real costume connection is that in the 'seventies, when shoes > with hugely built-up soles were popular, I found myself thinking "polio" > FIRST whenever I saw a student walking along in them (okay, I never found > myself thinking "fashion," but I did of course remember "fad" as a quick > second thought). That's what built-up shoes signified to my generation, at > least in our youth. I too am grateful for this thread, costume related no, historic yes. Born in 1952, I remember getting my whole family walking down to my elementary school, even my parents(!), and getting our sugar squares. I also remember the doctor giving my sister and me our vaccines on our thighs because "girls this pretty shouldn't have scars on their arms where people can see." My brothers' scars are on their arms. Being short and having glasses and new braces at the time, the handsome doctor's words meant a lot and I've always remembered them. He probably said it to every little girl but it made us feel special. I remember iron lungs on television and in the movie, "Pennies from Heaven" (?) about a big band musician whose daughter developed polio, was in the iron lung for a while and had to wear leg braces. I also remember a few of the kids in my school having leg braces and some adults in the neighborhood wearing one platform shoe. The shoes never seemed high enough and the person still had to limp badly. One of our close friends had polio as a child. His legs are both short for his body length and he still needs an afternoon nap much of the time. There is a medical condition called post-polio syndrome, or something like that. The muscles don't work as well as they did and the person gets very tired and requires rest. His wife figures that within the next 15 years he will probably be in a wheel chair much of the time, and they are planning for this eventuality in their house. LynnD _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 14:22:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DIM0WG018167 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:22:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DIL44d020002 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 12:21:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DIL2Bh002805; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 12:21:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DIKqBi002652 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 12:20:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i8DIiJR9022081 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:44:20 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040913111747.00bd5638@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 11:20:45 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: Re: [h-cost] shearling wool In-Reply-To: <02b201c499b9$a8d298f0$0400a8c0@compaqub> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040912001616.024cbc90@64.87.54.245> <5.2.0.9.0.20040913085135.00c4b570@mail.katiesorchids.com> <4145C9AD.8090108@thibault.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was just thinking -- what I ought to do is buy a junk sherling fur coat from ebay and make my own woolies. To heck with Costco! Hmmm. I've got some fox fur scraps that would make absolutely luscious linings for some slippers . Katie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 14:50:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DIonRm018296 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:50:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DIo04d023454 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 12:50:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DIntBh024639; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 12:49:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web40411.mail.yahoo.com (web40411.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.108]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8DInpBh024518 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 12:49:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hanstar88@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040913184946.23219.qmail@web40411.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.77.204.32] by web40411.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 11:49:46 PDT Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 11:49:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Mary To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200409102305.i8AN5mBj057502@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Linen / Dye Removal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I found some 100% linen at a decent price. My problem however is the > horrible banana yellow color. Can I use rit color remover? > Perhaps another removal suggestion? I really want this linen! > I bought some linen from fabrics.com that was supposed to be a sort of "coffee" color, but when it arrived all it reminded me of was bog mud! It was a horrid dark, dark, green-ish brown! What I did was soaked it in diluted Clorox *Advantage*. Advantage works like regular Clorox, but doesn't break down the fibers (at least not as much). My linen came out a light peach color and seemed just as strong as before I bleached it. Hope that helps! Mary ===== "Pictures of perfection, as you know, make me sick & wicked." ~ Jane Austen "Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before." ~ Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 14:55:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DIt5am018311 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:55:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DIsK4d023853 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 12:54:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DIrpBh027716; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 12:53:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DIqgBh026807 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 12:52:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from webwarren@earthlink.net) Received: from cottontail.webwarren.com (pcp0010285386pcs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.44.18.221]) by webwarren.com (8.12.10/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i8DIqRCk016948 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:52:29 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.0.20040913113635.041f6e68@earthlink.net> X-Sender: n2kye@mail.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:48:57 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Chassidim In-Reply-To: <200409111459.i8BExLBi081286@net.indra.com> References: <200409111459.i8BExLBi081286@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:57:56 -0400, Gail & Scott Finke wrote: >Chassidim are a sect of ultra-orthodox Jews. I would describe Chassidism as a movement in Judaism somewhat similar to the charismatic movement in Christianity. There are several major branches of Chassidism which would be vaguely analogous to different Christian charismatic denominations/churches. >Chassidim live in many places, but there is a big group (or groups?) in >New York City. Several groups, each coming from a different major city in Eastern Europe, each following the teachings of a different charismatic leader or "Rebbe". The founding Rebbe of each Chassidic sect developed his following from adopting (and adapting?) the teachings of the founder of the Chassidic movement. The easiest way to distinguish one Chassidic sect from another is by the shape and composition of their hats. Those of the Lubavitch sect (Lubavitchers) wear porkpie hats; those of the Satmar sect wear shallow-crowned hats with broad brims; those of the Bobov sect (Bobovers) wear something that looks like the stereotypical "Russian fur hat". (I'm not sure about the other sects; there are at least four that I haven't mentioned.) There are also variations in the particular length and cut of their coats, but I'm not as clued into that. >Chassidic women have to cover their hair at all times, Married Chassidic women. The unmarried women usually leave their hair uncovered, but they tend to wear it unadorned and conservatively-styled. >I think they may have to wear skirts as well, and they are supposed to >cover their legs. Yes, since pants are men's garments and the Bible prohibits one from dressing in the garments of the opposite gender, and bare skin is considered "immodest" and might tempt a man to, er, misbehave. >Bizarrely, this is often done by wearing stockings and wigs, Always heavy opaque stockings, and the skirts are always below the knees. In some Chassidic communities, even toddler girls wear woolen stockings and heavy "maxi skirts" in the hottest heat of summer. >so they don't look that much different from other women -- losing the >whole point of the thing. The wigs are all of a handful of easily-recognizeable styles which almost NOBODY else ever wears. Also, in some communities, either a kerchief (which covers most or all of one's hair) or a large hat (ditto) is equally acceptable or sometimes even preferred, since a wig *can* be considered to be immodest in that it might cause someone to think you have attractive hair and tempt him to, er, act inappropriately. Again, the styles of hat tend to be different than those you'd see on non-Jewish women. Overall, though, in a group of Orthodox/observant Jewish women, it's much harder to pick out the Chassidic women than it is to pick out the Chassidim in a group of Orthodox/observant Jewish men. Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 15:08:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DJ88qF018354 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:08:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DJ7E4d025173 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 13:07:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DJ78Bh039018; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 13:07:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DJ6xBh038839 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 13:07:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kat@redtrollforge.com) Received: from katscomputer (ip124.129.du.eli.iinet.com [67.136.129.124]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0AAC6B147 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 12:06:50 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@redtrollforge.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 12:06:50 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases Message-ID: <41458D5A.6378.665E89F6@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I too am grateful for this thread, costume related no, historic yes. > Born in 1952, I remember getting my whole family walking down to my > elementary school, even my parents(!), and getting our sugar squares. I remember all of us being told to go to Salk Junior High to get the oral Sabine vaccine. But I was also among the people who had a "bad reaction" to that first oral vaccine. My pediatrician said I should never get the oral form again because of it. (Of course, if I had known what I know now, I would have found out more about the symptoms I had and at least have mom write them down. None of us can remember what happened except that I was "very sick." Fortunately, I was able to get the shot form (which we pediatricians started to use again a few years back.) My brother-in-law had polio as a child. He's 6" shorter than his brothers and has a shorter arm (not deformed at least). I also had friends who had polio. Not a fun disease. (And even as late as 1964 they were avoiding tonsillectomies at certain times of the year as a way of avoiding polio, even though the injectable polio vaccine had been out for something like 12 years at that point.) > I also remember the doctor giving my sister and me our vaccines on our > thighs because "girls this pretty shouldn't have scars on their arms > where people can see." My brothers' scars are on their arms. Being > short and having glasses and new braces at the time, the handsome > doctor's words meant a lot and I've always remembered them. He > probably said it to every little girl but it made us feel special. The school (without bothering with permissions slips in those days) gave me my first smallpox vaccine in 1963. I had a second in 1973 because I was going to be working with the vaccine in virology lab. It was already out of common usage by that time. When I was in pediatric residency (1980-83) it was considered malpractice to give someone the smallpox vaccine. (We had one doctor in town who had stockpiled it and was still giving it. It was a big scandal. However, we had no way of stopping it since none of his patients ever sued him for malpractice. He didn't have privileges except at the "black" hosptial in town so the hospital administrators could never do anything either.) Hey, Robin! I fixed the "from" line problem! Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 15:23:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DJNfcS018407 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:23:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DJHb71026346 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 13:22:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DIGOBh099243; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 12:16:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from brazilnut.cc.columbia.edu (IDENT:cu41754@brazilnut.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.206.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DIGCBi099069 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 12:16:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from asj2001@columbia.edu) Received: from VAIO (dyn-ec-194-187.dyn.columbia.edu [160.39.194.187]) (user=asj2001 mech=LOGIN bits=0) by brazilnut.cc.columbia.edu (8.13.0/8.13.0) with ESMTP id i8DIG92M028228 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:16:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000f01c499bd$a55dc0b0$9865fea9@VAIO> From: "Alexia S. Jacobs" To: References: <200409131802.i8DI2fBh088146@net.indra.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:15:26 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-No-Spam-Score: Local X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.40 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Lady Mary Wortley Montagu X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO She is the famous lady who wrote about smallpox inoculation at the beginning of the eighteenth century in Constantinople where her husband was ambassador. Her collected (and personally edited) letters are fascinating and were particularly useful when I wrote about real and supposed Turkish influence on eighteenth century women's dress. She wore real Turkish costume while abroad and wrote to friends about Turkish women's clothing on many occasions. Her letters, published in the 1760's I think, helped to popularize Turkish-inspired costumes for theatre, masquerade, and portraiture, and also contributed to "Turkish" elements in more conventional fashion. Believe I could write for hours, but luckily I won't! Alexia _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 15:23:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DJNifS018410 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:23:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DJHb6x026346 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 13:22:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DIAEBh094449; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 12:10:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DI9tBi094186 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 12:09:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i8DIXPR9018863 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:33:26 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040913110628.028a8ce0@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 11:09:52 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fwd: Solar powered jacket In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20040913131735.03a5e958@earthlink.net> References: <200409121923.i8CJN4Bi043525@net.indra.com> <200409121923.i8CJN4Bi043525@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Small world. Hubby is KB7VI. I'm KF6BKP, at least that's what my car's license plate says. Hubby says that the BKP means "Beautiful Katie Pleasance" . His VI stands for Village Idiot . I love him anyway . Katie >The solar-powered one sounds absolutely GREAT for when we do ham radio >communications for events like the NYC Marathon. >Brenda >webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 15:28:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DJSh5p018424 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:28:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DJRm4d027682 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 13:27:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DJRjBh055850; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 13:27:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DJRfBh055808 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 13:27:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.123] (pm7-123.eos.net [205.133.149.123]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i8DJRbvK014182 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:27:37 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:23:59 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200409131802.i8DI2fBi088146@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: jane austin movies X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Katie: I think you should try reading the books before you try to psychoanalyze Jane Austin. There is a reason they are among the most beloved of novels -- they are delightful. Or at least a large number of people find them delightful (your taste may differ). I haven't seen the old BBC productions, so I don't know, but what you may be detecting is a bias on the part of the screenwriters. For instance, the recent Ang Lee movie of "Sense of Sensibility," the one starring Kate Winslett and Emma Thomson, has very little of the book's flavor. "S&S" is a very funny book, full of very funny characters, with a surprise ending that is also quite amusing. The A&E production of "Pride and Prejudice" with Colin Firth is much better at capturing the spirit of the book, and of course the costumes are gorgeous. Many feminist critics today don't like Jane Austin novels because they don't think the world she was writing about was fair. And it wasn't fair -- but neither was any other era, including our own. You have to take it as it is (or was) and enjoy it from there. But if that's not something you like to do, then I would steer clear of them. Back to costume content -- has anyone seen the old black and white "P&P" with ... oh darn it, who are they? Greer Garson, maybe, and one of the Barrymores? It's a real hoot, and the costumes are hilarious. A bizarre mixture of 1930s or 40s Hollywood and Regency. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 15:44:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DJiGKc018586 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:44:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DJgu4d029417 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 13:42:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DJgnBh068048; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 13:42:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DJgjBh067847 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 13:42:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bee3.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.227]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 7B27647FE25 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 21:42:31 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <004901c499c9$d6629e40$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040912181824.075f07e0@mail.katiesorchids.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040912181824.075f07e0@mail.katiesorchids.com><5.2.0.9.0.20040913083250.00bcf9b8@mail.katiesorchids.com> <4145CCE7.3070002@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Jane Austin movies Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 21:42:43 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My two cents also. I was quite surprised when i watched Sense and Sensabillity, that the widow got nothing after her husband, and her daughters neither. It never accured to me that it only was the eldest son who got the whole thing. It really was a matter of good marriage and money that counted. You may say that it all is about that, to marry well, but i think that her charakters are so interresting and worth watching, that it dont matter. I love the films, and i still have the best part to go for, to read it in english! Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavolta Press" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 6:37 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Jane Austin movies > I don't know if you mean Jane Austin's heroines, but most were clinging > to the lower strata of the upper classes and had relatives who were down > in the middle classes. Marriage was pretty much the only economic > option for such a woman. Finding a husband was like finding a > job/career. It had to be the best possible choice because it was likely > to last the rest of the woman's life, and it was likely to affect the > career and marriage prospects of her siblings and other family members. > Jane Austin herself never made any real money from writing. She, her > widowed mother, and her spinster sister Cassandra ended their days as > dependents on a brother who was lucky enough to get adopted as the heir > of a rather distant wealthy relative. Without their brother's support > they would probably have been impoverished. Or Jane would have had to > marry the affluent (but apparently, not sufficiently lovable) suitor > whose sisters (Jane's friends) pushed him to make a proposal when Jane > seemed about doomed to spinsterhood. Austin was quite realistic about > women's financial options for her social class in her books. > > Fran Grimble > Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming > http://www.lavoltapress.com > > > > > And, oh, the characters! -- either insipid or viciously greedy and > > status-conscious to the point that I almost consider the movies to be > > parodies of how the 'rich and famous' of the era lived. > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 15:44:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DJisJf018589 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:44:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DJhp4d029551 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 13:43:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DJhnBh068876; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 13:43:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m19.mx.aol.com (imo-m19.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DJhcBh068618 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 13:43:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.7.) id 6.fc.1083c7b (4552) for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:43:28 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:43:28 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: jane austin movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/13/2004 3:28:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, gailscott@eos.net writes: > "S&S" is a very funny book, full of very funny > characters, with a surprise ending that is also quite amusing. Uh....I thought the movie was too. Of the BBC ones I've only seen part of "Mansfield Park"....until I couldn't stand it any more. I thought it was awful and a bore. Not everything BBC does is great, y'know. Neither is following the book to a T. [But the books' strengths are the way they're written, not the plot. Such language!] But the A&E P&P is almost perfect. I liked the film of "Emma" with Gweneth Paltrow even if the costumes were a little uninspired, and I also like the film of "Persuasion". _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 15:49:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DJnNRV018604 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:49:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DJmd4d000394 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 13:48:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DJmaBh072912; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 13:48:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from eagle.uvm.edu (eagle.uvm.edu [132.198.101.203]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DJmVBi072832 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 13:48:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hope.greenberg@uvm.edu) Received: from [132.198.104.191] (ip104191.uvm.edu [132.198.104.191]) by eagle.uvm.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i8DJmS2j029146 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:48:28 -0400 Message-ID: <4145F98B.8080003@uvm.edu> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:48:27 -0400 From: Hope Greenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040803 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: jane austin movies References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Gail & Scott Finke wrote: >Back to costume content -- has anyone seen the old black and white "P&P" >with ... oh darn it, who are they? Greer Garson, maybe, and one of the >Barrymores? It's a real hoot, and the costumes are hilarious. A bizarre >mixture of 1930s or 40s Hollywood and Regency. > > Oh yes, with Laurence Olivier as Mr. Darcy. Definite hoot. I think the period they were going for, costume-wise, was the 1830s, complex sleeves, lower waist and big hats. The truly weird thing is that Aldous Huxley wrote the screenplay, I think. No wonder it didn't sound much like the book! But fun, nonetheless. BTW, when people mention the BBC Pride and Prejudice do you mean the recent Colin Firth as Mr. Darcy one or the 1980 David Rintoul as Mr. Darcy one? I love the latter more than the former Much as I like Colin Firth, it seemed a bit too modern in sensibility. But how about the costumes? Which version had more authentic costumes? - Hope _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 15:50:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DJotXr018615 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:50:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DJlb59000191 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 13:50:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DJUMBh057850; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 13:30:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail10.mdx.safepages.com (mail10.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.33]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DJUJBh057767 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 13:30:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail10.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id D395C2081C; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 19:30:21 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust229.tnt1.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.148.229]) by mail10.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 06B5A20534 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 19:30:20 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <031101c499c8$19477980$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040912001616.024cbc90@64.87.54.245><5.2.0.9.0.20040913085135.00c4b570@mail.katiesorchids.com> <4145C9AD.8090108@thibault.org><02b201c499b9$a8d298f0$0400a8c0@compaqub> <4145E2E5.2090109@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] shearling wool Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:30:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cynthia Virtue" > It's great for shoes and coats. > A gown lining? I'd think it would be way too thick. Hrm. What I'd probably be ordering has a 1/2" nap, and looks a great deal thinner than the lining of the gowns I'm imitating. Also, it mooshes nicely; the bulk when pinched isn't more than ~1/8", barely more than the thickness of the leather. >From what I've read, lambskin at least was certainly used as a lower-class gown lining... was I mislead? Or is there a huge difference in thickness between lambskin and shearling? Was shearling not used in this way? (By the way, by "a good thing" I mean "an accurate thing"! =} ) -E House Liberty in Our Lifetime - www.freestateproject.org Coming Soon - http://www.seamcheckers.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 16:02:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DK2kZc018748 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 16:02:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DK1n4d001841 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:01:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DK1hBh084008; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:01:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DK1dBh083944 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:01:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bee3.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.227]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id E602A2628F5 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 22:01:37 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <009201c499cc$8275e8c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 22:01:51 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] chenille and stumpwork X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all. Thanks for all your informations you gave me with this question. My worries about it is that the chenille i have is rather thick, i got it from Hedgehog Handworks. But the undyed chenille silk i have ordered, i have no idea about thickness with. Must waite and see how it is, got it from Mulberry. I have just ordered some embroidery books from Amazon and amungst them are a coupple of stumpwork, so i think i will waite to get some ideas from the books. Also i will make a lot of experimentation with the threads. I am much inspired by a courtdress in Costume in Details 17th and 18th century wich has sprays of dark red flowers on the sleave ruffles, but these flowers are couched on the surface and not dimentional. But the flowers on the dress from Kyoto definately has raised flowers on. This will be a long lasting projekt, i am glad that i have only this to make all fall and winter, summer has its charm, but somehow i look forwards to all this cosy time inside where it is warm and cosy. Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 16:14:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DKEx2w018819 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 16:14:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DKE44d003845 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:14:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DKE2Bh095547; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:14:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DKDqBh095415 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:13:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01285 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:21:01 -0500 Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:21:01 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] shearling wool In-Reply-To: <031101c499c8$19477980$0400a8c0@compaqub> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 13 Sep 2004, E House wrote: > From what I've read, lambskin at least was certainly used as a lower-class > gown lining... was I mislead? Or is there a huge difference in thickness > between lambskin and shearling? Was shearling not used in this way? Budge was definitely a common gown lining, and not just lower-class. What I don't know is whether shearling is similar in weight. The issue would be as much the thickness of the skin as of the hair. The fine furs I've seen handle like fabric. Good, fine kid gloves might be a reasonable touchstone for comparison, if you've seen those. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 16:23:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DKNH4h018854 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 16:23:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DKMb4d004959 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:22:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DKLXBh002191; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:21:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail5.mdx.safepages.com (mail5.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DKLFBh001962 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:21:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail5.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 256581CBBE2; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 20:20:19 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust144.tnt2.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.178.144]) by mail5.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 2EB1A1CBC39 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 20:20:09 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <032e01c499cf$124eca50$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: jane austin movies Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:20:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i8DKNH4h018854 Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gail & Scott Finke" > Back to costume content -- has anyone seen the old black and white "P&P" > with ... oh darn it, who are they? Greer Garson, maybe, and one of the > Barrymores? It's a real hoot, and the costumes are hilarious. A bizarre > mixture of 1930s or 40s Hollywood and Regency. Oh dear--is that the one where Lady Catherine de Bourgh is only _acting_ mean in order to test Lizzie, then goes back to tell Darcy to marry her, eyes all a twinkle? I had to cover my eyes for that one. Almost as bad as the 1934 version of "Anne of Green Gables" where Marilla hates Gilbert Blythe, and he and Anne are secretly engaged, and Gilbert wins Marilla over by saving Matthew's life... yeesh. Wouldn't you hate to be the unfortunate actress who changed her name to Anne Shirley, for THAT?! (Not that "Dawn O'Day" was much better.) This brings up something that's annoyed me a great deal with 1930s and 40s movies--if you're setting a movie only 20 or 30 years in the past, why don't you *$%#*%^! go to the used clothing store and get REAL 20 or 30 year old clothing?! OK, OK, I know all the reasons, I just don't like 'em. -E House Liberty in Our Lifetime - www.freestateproject.org Coming Soon - http://www.seamcheckers.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 16:43:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DKhI8s018981 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 16:43:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DKbb4d008279 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:37:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DKbVBh016509; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:37:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DKbNBi016396 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:37:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i8DKZKTA013228 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 16:35:20 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 16:35:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <414604FD.5070500@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 16:37:17 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] shearling wool for lining References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040912001616.024cbc90@64.87.54.245><5.2.0.9.0.20040913085135.00c4b570@mail.katiesorchids.com> <4145C9AD.8090108@thibault.org><02b201c499b9$a8d298f0$0400a8c0@compaqub> <4145E2E5.2090109@thibault.org> <031101c499c8$19477980$0400a8c0@compaqub> In-Reply-To: <031101c499c8$19477980$0400a8c0@compaqub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO E House wrote: >From what I've read, lambskin at least was certainly used as a lower-class > gown lining... was I mislead? Or is there a huge difference in thickness > between lambskin and shearling? Was shearling not used in this way? I don't know about the history (what time and place?), but I do know that although I can pinch my shearling slippers down, over the whole foot, it doesn't compress too much, because the wool is springy. The weight used for slippers wouldn't be a good thing for lining a dress, I think. There may well be other weights. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent For nonsqueamish gourmets: "At peace with my role in the food chain" BBQ Apron -- http://www.cafepress.com/virtueventures _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 17:01:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DL1ul1019272 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:01:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DL174d011060 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:01:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DL13hL036901; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:01:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m14.mx.aol.com (imo-m14.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.204]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DL0xhL036779 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:01:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.7.) id 6.2b.615cbab6 (4529) for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:00:46 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <2b.615cbab6.2e77647e@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:00:46 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Jane Austin movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/13/2004 3:43:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: > that the widow > got nothing after her husband, and her daughters neither. Don't forget....Mr. Dashwood's second marriage! Their the son's half sisters and she's not his mother. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 17:08:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DL8u5u019390 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:08:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DKwC4d010724 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:58:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DKw7Bh034252; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:58:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m14.mx.aol.com (imo-m14.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.204]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DKw1Bh034158 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:58:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.7.) id 6.e0.117decb (4529) for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 16:57:53 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 16:57:52 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: jane austin movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/13/2004 4:22:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, formfunc@formfunction.org writes: > This brings up something that's annoyed me a great deal with 1930s and 40s > movies--if you're setting a movie only 20 or 30 years in the past, why don't > you *$%#*%^! go to the used clothing store and get REAL 20 or 30 year old > clothing?! > Darling.....Norma Shear and Joan Crawford are NOT going to wear old clothes!!!!! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 17:10:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DLADej019399 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:10:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DL9U4d012042 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:09:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DL9OhL043887; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:09:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DL9JhL043769 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:09:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brujne@creighton.edu) Received: from cindyabel (cla53081.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA13874 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 16:09:02 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Jane Austin movies Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 16:07:08 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040913104208.028bde10@mail.katiesorchids.com> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As I've been watching the movies, drooling over some of the dresses, it constantly comes to my mind that the author must have been a horribly bitter and unhappy woman. What you say about her life explains it. She desperately wanted to climb to a higher social class and failed at the game of getting a good (rich + personally acceptable) husband and became a shrill critic of the system. Katie: Thanks for your observations. Jane did have a perfectly acceptible proposal of marriage in her twenties, but after literally mulling it over overnight, refused the offer the following morning, realizing she did not love the man in question. This had to be difficult, knowing it was probably the last proposal she was likely to get. Little evidence remains of exactly why Jane rejected the marriage offer, with marriage about the only acceptible means to keep or move up the place she had on the British social scale. And she or Cassandra may have destroyed any writing she had done explaning the ins and outs of her why not. Being born a Reverend's daughter, did she not want the role, seeing the economic stresses it had placed on her mother(a through hypocondriac--possibly Mrs. Austen's only way to get attention and evade some responsibly in an economically stressed household)? Was her parents' marriage more unhappy than the surviving evidence shows? Was she, like her creation Elizabeth Bennent, unwilling to wed a man she couldn't respect or had characteristics and/or habits that would have really embittered her over time. Did she see enough "bad" marriages to distrust the institution. I don't see Jane as a shrill critic of the system which was a very tough system for both parties. Men really had more freedom in that they could marry "below themselves", providing their choice met with their families' approval or they had their own independent income where being dispossessed didn't matter. Women were always under pressure to marry "up" or at least "horizontally" on the social scale. Thus the pressure for social accomplishments, domestic skills, a good dowery, family connections, and an attractive person and personality. As marriageable women outnumbered marriageable men, men could pick and choose. Women were under more pressure to simply accept any suitable offer. And divorce was practically unheard of. English girls and women had the spectre of their own British royal family, where George III and Queen Charlotte only arranged for the eldest of their several daughters to marry, and not an altogether grand royal marriage at that. While King and Queen insisted they could not bear to part with their daughters, the real reasons were probably more socio-political,(a severe dearth of eligible, never mind presentable foreign princes(marrying with England was out of the question) and most likely, sheer financial. Prinny and a couple of his brothers ran up debts that probably would have made it impossible for Dad and Mum to dare ask Parliament for nice doweries for the other Princesses. The princesses referred to their confinement as imprisonment, and frequency referred in letters to their brothers who were allowed their own households and allowances, as being confined in "The Nunnery." Had England and its Empire been Catholic still, they may have followed the more usual European example of sending their surplus daughters to convents, thus cutting down on the man shortage problem, somewhat. It would be interesting to she what influence, if any, we might infer, that the pressure of the English "Marriage Mart" had on dress and costume, especially for women. Cindy Abel Just my opinion _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 17:11:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DLBvLk019420 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:11:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DLBG4d012277 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:11:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DLBFhL045398; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:11:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DLB7hL045230 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:11:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.7.) id 6.30.608383bb (4529) for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:10:57 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <30.608383bb.2e7766e0@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:10:56 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: jane austin movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/13/2004 4:58:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, AlbertCat@aol.com writes: > Darling.....Norma Shear and Joan Crawford are NOT going to wear old > clothes!!!!! > Seriously folks it must be remembered that movie making was much different back then. The studios were self contained. They wanted and had control over everything. They had their own wardrobe departments with full time employees and movies were just projects to which an employee got assigned....even the designer. They did wardrobe tests before shooting, and hair tests, make up tests...etc. They reshot things that they didn't like [take the opening scene of Gone With The Wind ]...and recast things if someone just wasn't right....AFTER shooting started. Location shooting was rare. They never even go outside in "The Wizard of Oz"! It's all sound stage work. All these things are very very rare these days. Early 70s gritty realistic films, like "The French Connection" or "Z" were the cutting edge [pun unintended] then and have a huge influence on movie making as we know it today. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 17:16:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DLG9bt019427 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:16:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DLF64d012727 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:15:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DLF3hL048688; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:15:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DLErhM048569 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:14:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i8DLcPR9006745 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:38:26 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040913131311.028247c8@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:14:49 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: [h-cost] Re: jane austin movies In-Reply-To: References: <200409131802.i8DI2fBi088146@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As I said, my judgement so far is based *solely* on the movies. I do intend to read the books, if for no other reason than to compare the opinions I have drawn from the movies with the opinions I will draw from the books. There's gotta be something wonderful about the books or they wouldn't be so well loved. I hope the movies are misrepresentative stereotyping. I am three movies into the four movies that I bought and so far I haven't seen a single character that I'd like as a friend -- that's pretty ghastly. Well, in Sense and Sensibility, maybe the serious girl, but the frivolous one is a mindless twit. In the others, nope, nobody I'd want to be friends with. Well, the five girls' father seems reasonable . With a wife like his, I'd hide in the library, too. I repeat. All my opinions so far come from the movies. I think that each character is played as though wearing a mask announcing to the audience what kind of a person she/he is. Each character is acted as a wooden stereotype and I gain no feeling of connection with any of them. Why do the women in the movies have to be so bloomin' inept at finding a suitable husband? Because every single one of them is a shallow, one-dimensional personality that has no real interests and as a result they are themselves uninteresting. All the men are either inept bumblers or heartless cads, with a few exceptions, such as Mr. Bennet in S&S, who has been turned into a psychological eunuch by his endlessly nagging wife. Charlotte, the cousin who does get married and has a good heart, walks around wearing the psychological equivalent of a "kick-me" sign. Who could possibly like Mr Collins (?) who is the epitome of the fawning sycophant. Charlotte ends up marrying him, so maybe it's a good match. Thus my opinion of the movies and my conjectures about the author. The movies cause me to imagine the author as a self-pitying whiner who revealed her frustrations by portraying a social system in which she herself had not succeeded. I hope that I find that I am wrong when I read the books. BTW, I came to this conclusion *before* this thread began. --> And I continue to like the costumes. I'll probably screen-capture pictures of my favorite garments and put the movies on the shelf for a very rainy day. As always, my opinion Katie, who's going out to split some firewood for the coming winter. It's as healthy as joining a gym and riding a bicycle to no-where and a lot more satisfying, especially during this upcoming winter's chilly mornings. Gotta love My Lord Husband -- he gets the fire going before he goes to work so that the house is toasty when I get up >I think you should try reading the books before you try to psychoanalyze >Jane Austin. There is a reason they are among the most beloved of novels -- >they are delightful. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 17:22:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DLMXLZ019464 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:22:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DLLk4d013469 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:21:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DLLbhL054052; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:21:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DLLWhM053988 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:21:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i8DLj4R9008712 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:45:04 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040913141559.0281c9a8@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:21:28 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: Re: [h-cost] Jane Austin movies In-Reply-To: <004901c499c9$d6629e40$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040912181824.075f07e0@mail.katiesorchids.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040912181824.075f07e0@mail.katiesorchids.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040913083250.00bcf9b8@mail.katiesorchids.com> <4145CCE7.3070002@lavoltapress.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In the very upper class social system of the time, inheritance was governed by "primogeniture" - the first son got the estate, the second son entered the military, the third son became a clergyman, and the remainder were left to either marry a rich woman or find some other way to support themselves. The daughters were expected to marry a first, second, or third son or become a spinster or a nun or marry beneath their status. That's an oversimplification, of course, but until a few centuries ago, it was the way things were in most of Europe and the Americas. Katie At 09:42 PM 9/13/2004 +0200, you wrote: >My two cents also. >I was quite surprised when i watched Sense and Sensabillity, that the widow >got nothing after her husband, and her daughters neither. It never accured >to me that it only was the eldest son who got the whole thing. >It really was a matter of good marriage and money that counted. >You may say that it all is about that, to marry well, but i think that her >charakters are so interresting and worth watching, that it dont matter. >I love the films, and i still have the best part to go for, to read it in >english! >Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 17:28:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DLSR0Q019486 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:28:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DLRT4d014181 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:27:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DLRPhL059080; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:27:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DLRKhM059017 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:27:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i8DLPKTA013847 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:25:20 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:25:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <414610B5.1070506@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:27:17 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Jane Austin movies References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040912181824.075f07e0@mail.katiesorchids.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040912181824.075f07e0@mail.katiesorchids.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040913083250.00bcf9b8@mail.katiesorchids.com> <4145CCE7.3070002@lavoltapress.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040913141559.0281c9a8@mail.katiesorchids.com> In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040913141559.0281c9a8@mail.katiesorchids.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Katie Pleasance wrote: > the third son became a clergyman, > The daughters were expected to marry a first, > second, or third son The clergyman? :) -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Register to vote! Don't let that other guy win! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 17:30:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DLUDb0019494 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:30:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DLTW4d014539 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:29:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DLTWhL060769; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:29:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DLTThM060724 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:29:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i8DLqxR9010910 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:53:00 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040913142235.028b4de8@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:29:23 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: jane austin movies In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO We started with Mansfield Park. We stopped for the evening in the middle of the first side of the DVD more than a week ago and haven't got back to it yet. I cannot imagine a move much boring than the BBC version of Mansfield Park. I think that we will have to watch Knight's Tale again in order to remove the bad taste that Mansfield Park has left. Hubby *loves* Knight's Tale . The dialog that is probably delightful in the book comes across as stilted and arrogant in the movies. Katie, who will continue to repeat that she likes the costumes so that nobody jumps on her for being off-topic again . >Of the BBC ones I've only seen part of "Mansfield Park"....until I couldn't >stand it any more. I thought it was awful and a bore. Not everything BBC does >is great, y'know. Neither is following the book to a T. [But the books' >strengths are the way they're written, not the plot. Such language!] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 17:40:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DLedK9019605 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:40:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DLdr4d015598 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:39:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DLdjhL068778; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:39:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DLdhhM068712 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:39:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i8DM3DR9013359 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 18:03:14 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040913143814.00bd19a8@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:39:37 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: Re: [h-cost] Jane Austin movies In-Reply-To: <414610B5.1070506@thibault.org> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040913141559.0281c9a8@mail.katiesorchids.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040912181824.075f07e0@mail.katiesorchids.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040912181824.075f07e0@mail.katiesorchids.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040913083250.00bcf9b8@mail.katiesorchids.com> <4145CCE7.3070002@lavoltapress.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040913141559.0281c9a8@mail.katiesorchids.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO We're speaking Protestant ministers, not Catholic priests. Most ministers that I know are married. Katie At 05:27 PM 9/13/2004 -0400, you wrote: >Katie Pleasance wrote: >>the third son became a clergyman, >>The daughters were expected to marry a first, second, or third son > >The clergyman? >Cynthia Virtue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 17:51:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DLpbpD019659 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:51:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DLos4d016814 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:50:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DLoqhL077673; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:50:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DLokhL077405 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:50:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1C6yiY-00075y-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 21:50:34 +0000 Message-ID: <7Ue4jGCAQhRBJw4G@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 22:41:20 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Garb, costume et al References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040912001616.024cbc90@64.87.54.245> <20040912084852.61154.qmail@web53104.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040912084852.61154.qmail@web53104.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO OK, I can't keep quiet any longer. Under "Eustace the Monk", that was our group with the trebuchet, and the chap with his back to the camera in the pale blue surcoat - that's my hubby! On the subject of weather, Julian mentioned hot days at Gorey Castle. I beg to mention cold, foggy days, sat in the topmost tower (many, many stairs) with a draft coming all the way up the walls and straight up my skirt where I sat in the window, as due to reconstruction work the floors currently do not quite meet the walls. Brrrrrr. Jean julian wilson wrote >Dear Kimiko, >[and any other interested Listers following this thread], >if you would like to see photos of Gorey Castle, and our Companie "at >playe"; - I recommend that - [because our own webmaster is snowed-under >with his mundane job at the moment] - you go to www.greydragon.org, - >subfile < "what's New" >; - subfile < "Jersey Revels" >; - there are >lots of pictures of our Group, our camp, of the Castle, and of the rest >of the events at our recent 3-day-long Medieval Festival held in late-July. >Our Guests, Master Terafan Greydragon and his Lady, have been able to >post their own pictures more quickly than our own Group's >mundanely-over-worked webmaster. >In Service, >Julian, >in "olde" Jersey, >15 miles off the French coast. > >Kimiko Small wrote: >At 06:24 PM 9/11/2004 +0100, you wrote: >>OK, I'm beginning to lect ure,soI'llstophere. >>But you did ask. >>Julian, >>in "olde" Jersey. > > >Yes, I did ask, and I appreciate your reply. Thanks so much for sharing. I >like learning new things like this. > >Kimiko > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > >--------------------------------- > ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 18:08:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DM8lkN019702 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 18:08:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DM7V4d018597 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 16:07:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DM7LhL090878; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 16:07:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DM7HhM090829 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 16:07:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i8DM5ITA014504 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 18:05:18 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 18:05:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <41461A13.4050101@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 18:07:15 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Jane Austin movies References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040913141559.0281c9a8@mail.katiesorchids.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040912181824.075f07e0@mail.katiesorchids.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040912181824.075f07e0@mail.katiesorchids.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040913083250.00bcf9b8@mail.katiesorchids.com> <4145CCE7.3070002@lavoltapress.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040913141559.0281c9a8@mail.katiesorchids.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040913143814.00bd19a8@mail.katiesorchids.com> In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040913143814.00bd19a8@mail.katiesorchids.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Katie Pleasance wrote: > We're speaking Protestant ministers, not Catholic priests. Most > ministers that I know are married. Ah, sorry. Thinking too far back. (Episcopals are protestants, too, but they call 'em priests.) -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Register to vote! Don't let that other guy win! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 18:13:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DMDfWJ019727 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 18:13:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DMCt4d019200 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 16:12:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DMCnhL095055; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 16:12:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mxsf22.cluster1.charter.net (mxsf22.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.222]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DMCihL094896 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 16:12:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from CatDevereaux@alleycatscratch.com) Received: from mxip10.cluster1.charter.net (mxip10a.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.140]) by mxsf22.cluster1.charter.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i8DMCbYH012016 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 18:12:38 -0400 Received: from 66-214-163-19.riv-eres.charterpipeline.net (HELO Maxwell) (66.214.163.19) by mxip10.cluster1.charter.net with ESMTP; 13 Sep 2004 18:12:38 -0400 X-Ironport-AV: i="3.84,153,1091419200"; d="scan'208"; a="263195524:sNHT28359502" From: "Cat Devereaux" To: Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:11:30 -0700 Message-ID: <005301c499de$c908e7d0$13a3d642@Maxwell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: <200409132141.i8DLeuhN069698@net.indra.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Old movies, costume treasures (was Re: jane austin movies X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > This brings up something that's annoyed me a great deal with 1930s and > 40s > movies--if you're setting a movie only 20 or 30 years in the past, why don't > you *$%#*%^! go to the used clothing store and get REAL 20 or 30 year old clothing?! > Watch the 20's and 30's "historical" operettas like Jeannette MacDonald (sp?) Fast forward to the group scenes. Ignore the stars in their brand new stuff. Look at the background players, especially when they have things like "court" scenes. You'll drool. Amazing early Victorian in two of the movies. Wonderful other dresses as soon as you look past the principals. Also for those interested in opera historical outfits, they seemed to use some amazing costumes from established productions. Great history snapshots. Wonder if they're ever restore some of these and transfer them to DVD? Some silents are also treasure troves. -Cat- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 18:21:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DML0fD019768 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 18:21:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DMK94d019965 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 16:20:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DMK8hL000899; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 16:20:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DMK5hL000841 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 16:20:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brujne@creighton.edu) Received: from cindyabel (cla53081.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA07121 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:20:04 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: jane austin movies Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:18:11 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 In-Reply-To: <30.608383bb.2e7766e0@aol.com> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Darling.....Norma Shear and Joan Crawford are NOT going to wear old > clothes!!!!! > More importantly, clothing that was 10-30 years out of date during the time that Norma Shearer, Joan Crawford, et.al. were stars, didn't fit the (then)current fashionable and attractive aesthetic. Irene Castle wrote in her autobiography, that while Fred Astaire willingly wanted copies of her late husband's Vernon's dance wardrobe(tuxes, mind, but probably different in cut and tailoring details from 30's tuxs), Ginger Rogers, with backup from the studio, wanted nothing to do with copying Irene's 1910's wardrobe, which had been cutting edge, as was Irene's hairstyles. And Irene was willing to loan all of her clothing from the teens and twenties, photos, etc to make it easier for the studio to reproduce her look and wardrobe. Read Edward Maeder's "Hollywood and History" for a complete view of how the then current aesthetics, budget's, star preferences, the Hays' Office(morality cops), and even designer demands, influenced how history got interpreted/misinterpreted in Hollywood from the 1920's to the early 1980's. Current asethetics often ruined the designer's original concepts, because the stars always had to look attractive to the audience and when a star like Bette Davis, wanted to look more like the real Queen Elizabeth, caught studio flak. The costume budget or even what was available, especially during WWII, influences what got made, what it was made of, and how much renting or even reburbishing of current or rented costume stock. The Hays office was obsessive over how much flesh a character could show. Female clevage involved rules over what could and could not be shown, even for historical films. Conversely, for all those ancient and Roman Empire set epics, especially, modern bras and girdles underneath chiltons and togas were de rigeur for actresses. Codpieces, even if historically accurate, were an absolute no-no and male stars often had to undergo removal of chest hair. Adrian, who had designed for a movie set in the Regency period, not long before, insisted that he be allowed to design P&P as taking place in the 1830's. Probably, if we look at historically set movies from the 1980's to the present, we can still date when the movie was made on the basis of makeup and hairstyles. Maeder wrote that having the current aesthetic in movies set in the past or future is unavoidable. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 18:22:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DMMEik019771 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 18:22:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DIHe4d019567 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 12:17:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DIHbBh000239; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 12:17:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DIHYBi000194 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 12:17:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i8DIf4R9021210 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:41:04 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040913111157.0286f120@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 11:17:30 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: Re: [h-cost] shearling wool In-Reply-To: <02b201c499b9$a8d298f0$0400a8c0@compaqub> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040912001616.024cbc90@64.87.54.245> <5.2.0.9.0.20040913085135.00c4b570@mail.katiesorchids.com> <4145C9AD.8090108@thibault.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wouldn't real shearling be awfully heavy? If you go on ebay and search for 'fur cutter' you can find damaged fur coats for very cheap. The furrier that I mostly deal with says that opossum and squirrel would be the best fur for lining clothes. Rabbit sheds and turns ratty before long but is cheap. All the rest (except real ermine, which is horribly expensive, even for scraps) weighs too much for me to feel comfortable with. I've got some ancient mink coats and I'm amazed at how much they weigh. My all time favorite is fox, but I find it only appropriate for accent, as it is too fluffy to wear under another garment. But it sure is warm! As always, my opinion, Katie At 12:46 PM 9/13/2004 -0500, you wrote: >So, to clarify, _real_ shearling _is_ a good thing? Here's hoping, since I >plan to order enough for a gown lining in the next month! =} >-E, impatiently waiting for pertinent books to arrive in the mail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 18:37:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DMb7aY019826 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 18:37:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DMaJ4d021481 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 16:36:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DMaHhL013381; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 16:36:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DMaFhM013316 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 16:36:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-238.sonic.net [209.148.112.238]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i8DMaAv6008308 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:36:11 -0700 Message-ID: <41462102.9030104@lavoltapress.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:36:50 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: jane austin movies References: <200409131802.i8DI2fBi088146@net.indra.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040913131311.028247c8@mail.katiesorchids.com> In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040913131311.028247c8@mail.katiesorchids.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I am three movies into the four movies that I bought and so far I > haven't seen a single character that I'd like as a friend -- that's > pretty ghastly. I don't see that whether you _like_ the characters has anything to do with whether these are good films (or books). I wouldn't want to live with most characters I've read about, or in most societies I've read about. Part of the point of reading fiction is to get acquainted with people, societies, and places that are unfamiliar to you. > > Why do the women in the movies have to be so bloomin' inept at finding > a suitable husband? Because every single one of them is a shallow, > one-dimensional personality that has no real interests and as a result > they are themselves uninteresting. They're not modern women and men, but I wouldn't call them shallow and one-dimensional. > The movies cause me to imagine the author as a self-pitying whiner who > revealed her frustrations by portraying a social system in which she > herself had not succeeded. ?? All Jane Austen's heroines find good husbands. For Austen and her contemporaries that _is_ a happy ending. I think you're taking Austen's humor about her characters' foibles much too seriously. I don't, for example, see Mr. Bennet as being a "psychological eunich" whose "endlessly nagging wife" makes his life unbearable. He seems to be contented with farming his estate (which apparently he does well), reading in his library, and talking to his older daughters. He's long since come to terms with the fact that he married a women for looks rather than brains--and considering he has five children, it doesn't seem to have stopped him from enjoying her sex appeal. His wife likes and respects him; he doesn't make fun of her in ways that she notices. It's quite like the marriage of Charlotte Lucas and Mr.Collins. Charlotte has accepted the only proposal she's ever likely to get. But it's a suitable, comfortable marriage for a woman in her social position. While Mr.Collins is sometimes tiresome, Charlotte cheerfully looks on the good side and enjoys running her household. For Austen romantic marriage is an ideal; but a marriage of companionship between two people dedicated to making it work (no matter how unlike they are) is acceptable and at times quite sensible. Austen's own social success (after her first fiance died) may lie in her having the freedom (because of her borther's support) to reject a second suitor instead of being forced to marry him for money. > I hope that I find that I am wrong when I read the books. BTW, I came > to this conclusion *before* this thread began. > > While the BBC renditions of Austen's books are not perfect, I doubt you will like the characters or the society in the books if you don't like them/it in the films. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 18:40:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DMeemt019859 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 18:40:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DMds4d021763 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 16:39:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DMdohL016047; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 16:39:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DMdkhM015979 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 16:39:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-238.sonic.net [209.148.112.238]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i8DMdhpw009399 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:39:43 -0700 Message-ID: <414621D7.2080204@lavoltapress.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:40:23 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Jane Austin movies References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >As I've been watching the movies, drooling over some of the dresses, it >constantly comes to my mind that the author must have been a horribly >bitter and unhappy woman. > Judging from her books and the biography I've read, Jane Austen may have felt somewhat intellectually apart from her neighbors and to have felt that women did not get an entirely fair lot in life. But she seems to have been cheerful, overall contented, and much loved by her family. >She >desperately wanted to climb to a higher social class and failed at the game >of getting a good (rich + personally acceptable) husband and became a >shrill critic of the system. > > I think you're seeing Jane Austen in an overly modern light. In the 18th and early 19th centuries, not only marrying well but getting favors from people who had power and money was a standard way of getting ahead in the world. Indeed, often necessary. For example, Fanny's brother William is an excellent and enthusiastic sailor in the British Navy. But he is unable to get promoted to lieutenant until Fanny's suitor Henry Crawford gets his own uncle, an admiral, to promote William. Or rather, to persuade the right other people in power to sign the right paperwork. Sir Thomas Bertram pushes Fanny to marry Henry partly because of what Henry can do for her brothers' careers (they are all in the Navy), saying that he did not know when his own influence as a landowner would have been able to do anything for William. That's how careers worked, how getting funding for arts and sciences projects worked, how getting a lot of things worked. Hobnobbing with superior classes was not just a matter of getting invited to fancier parties. Nor was hobnobbing with people of your own class or even inferiors. For another example, when Mrs. Dashwood and her two daughters are made unwelcome in their former family home by her stepson and his wife, her cousin Sir John Barton (if I have his name right) offers them a cottage on his property. If I recall, he's Mrs. Dashwood's second cousin and they've never met him, or at least haven't seen him for years. But people thought in terms of wide family and social networks. This cousin of their own social class was in a position to do them a valuable favor--and was himself very happy to have them move into his neighborhood. >Katie: Thanks for your observations. Jane did have a perfectly acceptible >proposal of marriage in her twenties, but after literally mulling it over >overnight, refused the offer the following morning, realizing she did not >love the man in question. > > Jane Austen also had a proposal some years earlier, from a man she loved. She accepted, but her suitor died suddenly while arranging the engagement with his parents. One theory is that she still loved her first suitor so much (though dead) that she could not marry the second. >er >time. Did she see enough "bad" marriages to distrust the institution. > That's assuming Jane Austen had lots of marital choices. I don't think very many choices were open to a woman who was a "lady," but had little income--particularly after she was 30. Options and the lack of them is largely what Austen's books are about. She had two proposals that are known o. She accepted one and rejected the other. That doesn't say to me that she was avoiding marriage. >Women were always under pressure to marry "up" or at least >"horizontally" on the social scale. > So were men. One of Jane Austen's early suitors was sent away by his mother to stop the relationship from going any further, because Jane wasn't a good enough match. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 19:27:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DNRwSL020196 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 19:27:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DNRH4d027293 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:27:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DNRBhL050781; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:27:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cmlapp16.siteprotect.com (cmlapp16.siteprotect.com [64.41.126.229]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DNR8hL050742 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:27:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cschmitt@genteelarts.com) Received: from genteelarts (oh-69-68-38-251.dyn.sprint-hsd.net [69.68.38.251]) by cmlapp16.siteprotect.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EC8A30202 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 18:27:06 -0500 (CDT) From: "Carolann Schmitt" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Fwd: Solar powered jacket Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 19:26:40 -0400 Organization: Genteel Arts Message-ID: <001601c499e9$24934f00$0300a8c0@genteelarts> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040913110628.028a8ce0@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Even smaller world. I'm KB3JXW, hubby is K3DCS, and my boss (who also does the NYC marathon, in the lead vehicle no less) in N4RH. Carolann Schmitt _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 19:40:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DNesKo020285 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 19:40:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DNeF4d028428 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:40:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DNeDhL059606; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:40:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DNe8hM059519 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:40:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i8E03bR9011278 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 20:03:38 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040913163826.02899de8@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 16:39:59 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: jane austin movies In-Reply-To: <4145F98B.8080003@uvm.edu> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have the one that I have stars David Rintoul. I have never seen a Jane Austin movie before nor read any of her books. Katie >BTW, when people mention the BBC Pride and Prejudice do you mean the >recent Colin Firth as Mr. Darcy one or the 1980 David Rintoul as Mr. Darcy >one? I love the latter more than the former Much as I like Colin Firth, it >seemed a bit too modern in sensibility. But how about the costumes? Which >version had more authentic costumes? >- Hope _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 19:56:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DNuJXP020400 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 19:56:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DNte4d029596 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:55:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DNtZhL069270; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:55:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DNtUhL069093 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:55:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.145.178]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i8DNtGRs010777 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 09:55:16 +1000 Message-ID: <003101c499ed$050614c0$b291d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabeth I and smallpox Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 20:52:10 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >I think Alison Weir's biography of Elizabeth mentioned that she wore > a > >mixture of alum and egg white from a fairly young age to hide her > >unfashionably dark complexion. > > Dark complexion? Wasn't she a redhead? Well looking at her early pictures e.g. her coronation or her 1546 portrait by William Scrots I'd say she was a strawberry blonde, I really don't think egg whites and alum would give you a pale complexion (not that I've experimented) the egg whites might make you look shiny but I don't know about lightening the complexion. Elizabeth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 19:56:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8DNuXa0020406 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 19:56:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DNto4d029623 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:55:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DNtohL069387; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:55:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8DNtVhL069115 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:55:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.145.178]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i8DNtGRu010777 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 09:55:18 +1000 Message-ID: <003201c499ed$062b0cc0$b291d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <7d21ac1904091115244011090f@mail.gmail.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040912190937.00c43de0@mail.katiesorchids.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Extinct diseases Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 21:09:46 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > But what about the days before "germ theory"? In those days disease was > considered "a punishment from God" as much as anything else. Would they > have conceived that a sick person's clothes could carry disease? Do you > think that QEI burned all her clothes after recovering from smallpox? > Katie Even before germ theory people knew that disease could be carried on clothing, I don't have any firm references here but people were aware that things other than the judgement of God could cause disease, you can't do anything about God's judgement, you can however do something about whatever it is you are doing wrong. The ancient Israelites worked out that mixing meat and milk was a good way to get sick. The Crusaders threw rotting animal carcasses into castles they were besieging knowing it would cause disease. People could also work out that things that smelled bad (raw sewage, rotten meat etc.) tended to make you sick, they made the logical direct leap that smells caused disease and we know better now but people have generally been good at working out cause & effect. If they saw that the people who inherited an infected person's clothes died of the same symptoms they could work out that something was being transmitted via the clothes they probably would have put it down to the smell of death/disease but it still results in people not wanting the dead person's clothes. Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole in OR in Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra, Australia ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 20:48:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8E0m7AK020674 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 20:48:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E0lN4d003314 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 18:47:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E0lBhL000951; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 18:47:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E0l5hL000901 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 18:47:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.145.178]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i8E0l1tC018746 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 10:47:01 +1000 Message-ID: <007001c499f4$3fc71c60$b291d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002501c4999a$cd06ba40$565683d1@washjeff.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extinct Diseases Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 10:46:17 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 12:06 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Extinct Diseases > It is notoriously the case that one of the most effective, and widely used, > early methods of bringing down the Indian population, in both North and > South America, was to give them blankets infected with smallpox. The > epidemics that resulted decimated many of the native tribes. > > Lloyd Mitchell (for Kathleen) here in Australia the Aboriginal population had been so isolated things like the common cold quickly developed into serious life threatening illnesses that wiped out huge numbers, without even a deliberate attempt on the part of the European colonists. Australia never had smallpox, there was a special quarantine station set up from the mid 19th century when a lot of free settlers started arriving, all the passengers on a ship were checked and if anybody had a serious infectious disease (e.g. smallpox) the ship's passengers were quarantined until the incubation period had passed with no new cases, if there was a new case the set period started again. Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole in OR in Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra, Australia ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 20:50:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8E0oixM020697 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 20:50:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E0oA4d003455 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 18:50:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E0o9hL002760; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 18:50:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp3.pacifier.net (smtp3.pacifier.net [64.255.237.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E0o5hL002733 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 18:50:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kat@redtrollforge.com) Received: from katscomputer (ip166.129.du.eli.iinet.com [67.136.129.166]) by smtp3.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36C996E2DD for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:49:33 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@redtrollforge.com To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:49:33 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Extinct diseases Message-ID: <4145DDAD.21889.67984BCD@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <003201c499ed$062b0cc0$b291d6cb@ewalpole> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Even before germ theory people knew that disease could be carried on > clothing, I don't have any firm references here but people were aware > that things other than the judgement of God could cause disease, you > can't do anything about God's judgement, you can however do something > about whatever it is you are doing wrong. Some of the earliest European printed textiles were made so that poor parishes could send their priests into plague infested areas and be able to afford to burn the vestments when they came out of the area. The clothes were part of the "miasma" theory of disease. The miasma clung to clothes (and was also more concentrated at night which is why night air was supposed to be bad for you.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 21:26:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8E1Q5qm020829 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 21:26:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E1PP4d010363 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 19:25:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E1PMhL024521; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 19:25:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E1PHhL024464 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 19:25:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m137.in-tch.com [216.166.191.137]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i8E1ON809337 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 19:24:23 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <4146497D.5050406@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 19:29:33 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Wet weather garb/English Summers (WAS: Court Garb in hot weather) References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A2A@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A2A@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yeah? I think you guys keep saying that to scare off the tourists! When Jane and I were over there 2 years ago, it didn't rain once! Okay, so I saw a bare handful of raindrops my first day in Dublin, but that was it! Amazing humidity, though! --sue, from (usually) much drier MT Teddy wrote: > > Margo, you and Wayne come over and visit me one summer and I'll show you > what it's like over here. > > A "lovely summer evening" in England can often mean that the rain is > nice and warm.... > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 21:39:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8E1dfZq020942 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 21:39:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E1cr4d014067 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 19:38:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E1cphL032785; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 19:38:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.207]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E1ckhL032704 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 19:38:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from athurman@gmail.com) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 79so530876rnl for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 18:38:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.14.33 with SMTP id 33mr1817364rnn; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 18:38:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.164.19 with HTTP; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 18:38:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7d21ac1904091318385d9e07fd@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 21:38:34 -0400 From: "A. Thurman" To: Historic Costume List Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] The Speckled Monster X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ....is the name of the book about Lady Montagu's role in combating smallpox: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0525947361/qid=1095125026/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/104-0655581-4402355 Obligatory costume content: Lady Montagu was so impressed by Turkish clothing during her husband's ambassadorship that she adopted a kind of pseudo-Turkish clothing style - there is a painting of her in the book wearing what appears to be a drapey-Empire waisted dress (ca. 1720s). Allison T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 21:47:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8E1lwBq020983 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 21:47:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E1l24d014750 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 19:47:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E1l1hL037936; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 19:47:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E1kwhL037909 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 19:46:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m137.in-tch.com [216.166.191.137]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i8E1k7816662 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 19:46:08 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <41464E95.7080206@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 19:51:17 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Jane Austin movies References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040912181824.075f07e0@mail.katiesorchids.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040912181824.075f07e0@mail.katiesorchids.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040913083250.00bcf9b8@mail.katiesorchids.com> <4145CCE7.3070002@lavoltapress.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040913141559.0281c9a8@mail.katiesorchids.com> <414610B5.1070506@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: <414610B5.1070506@thibault.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yeah, silly! Anglican, not Catholic! ;-) --sue Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Katie Pleasance wrote: > >> the third son became a clergyman, > > >> The daughters were expected to marry a first, second, or third son > > > The clergyman? :) > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 22:16:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8E2G55I021057 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 22:16:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E29A4d016229 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 20:09:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E297hL052188; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 20:09:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web20827.mail.yahoo.com (web20827.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.227.166]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8E291hL052139 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 20:09:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mlysett@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040914020900.58186.qmail@web20827.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.17.65.146] by web20827.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 19:09:00 PDT Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 19:09:00 -0700 (PDT) From: mlysett To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Elizabeth I and smallpox X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There are several diaries and letters home from foreigners in England who remarked that the English women prefered the shiny complexion from the egg whites. Most Continental Europeans prefered the more matte look from powders. In fact, the most popular powder came from Spain. (I can't say I've ever noticed a pale complexion in a Spanish portrait, but I certainly haven't seen them all.) Egg whites certainly wouldn't give you a pale complexion, they were the "glue" that kept the powder on your face. The alum would have had the lightening properties, as indicated in the Merriam-Webster dictionary "Common alum is the double sulphate of aluminium and potassium. It is white, transparent, very astringent, and crystallizes easily in octahedrons." ~Margaret > Well looking at her early pictures e.g. her coronation or her 1546 portrait by William Scrots I'd say she was a strawberry blonde, I really don't think egg whites and alum would give you a pale complexion (not that I've experimented) the egg whites might make you look shiny but I don't know about lightening the complexion. Elizabeth __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 22:39:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8E2d5nu021123 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 22:39:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E2cT4d018171 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 20:38:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E2cShL070531; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 20:38:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E2cMhM070479 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 20:38:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i8E2gmYb008053 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 22:42:49 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 22:48:34 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <4.3.1.2.20040912102606.026abd08@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20040912115434.024368b0@mail.frys.com> <41459D35.8040903@in-tch.com> In-Reply-To: <41459D35.8040903@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200409132248.34252.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-DCC-sonic.net-Metrics: net.indra.com 1156; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday 13 September 2004 9:14 am, Sue Clemenger wrote: [snip] > My favorite historical novel that deals with this sort of topic is "The > Doomsday Book," by Cynthia? Willis. It's "Connie Willis", Sue, and I loved the book. My recollection of the disease plot is that there was an influenza epidemic in England right before the plague gets there, and that epidemic effectively weakened the disease resistence of the populace, resulting in more deaths than might otherwise have been the case. -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 22:45:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8E2jS5M021164 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 22:45:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E2is4d018785 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 20:44:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E2iohL074980; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 20:44:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E2imhL074897 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 20:44:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lauren.walker@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (h0006255ec5ea.ne.client2.attbi.com[66.31.43.36]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <2004091402444201600hpaa3e>; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 02:44:42 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 22:43:38 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Jane Austen movies was: Austin movies From: Lauren Walker To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040912181824.075f07e0@mail.katiesorchids.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The English major must speak: Jane Austen. With an "e". _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 13 23:36:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8E3aaVT021412 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 23:36:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E3Zu4d022740 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 21:35:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E3ZqhL008785; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 21:35:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E3ZohL008720 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 21:35:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Rampant_Peacock@comcast.net) Received: from molly (c-24-16-200-23.client.comcast.net[24.16.200.23]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <20040914033544013001o160e>; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 03:35:44 +0000 From: "Molly Boone" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Court Garb in hot weather (WAS:current and future work?) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 20:33:40 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <13f.c484a6.2e7311cc@aol.com> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO wholeheartedly agree here. The big things that I run into every year at fair are: 1) stay hydrated - not just water but the salts and minerals you are sweating off Pickles are an awesome thing for replacing liquid, salt, and electrolyte minerals. 2) stay cool - fast temperature drops on pulse points when you are too warm already will drop you faster than anything else and it will shock your system into heat exhaustion. If you need to drop your temperature and are unsure, soak a rag in skin temperature water and hit your pulse points with that first the liquid on skin evaporation will be the first start in dropping core temperature 3) build smart - Fans are a part of the costumes for good reason, have a place you can drop a layer or can other wise break in the shade to let your temperature drop. Hats need to be removable. Also I line my corset in flannel, in 101 degree dry heat (Eastern Washington desert) I do fine all day in BLACK because the undergarments work with not against my body cooling. 4) stay aware of yourself and others - the best experiences I've had in faire are watching people pull together so everyone plays and has fun and watches out for each other. Water bearers are a godsend. Don't be offended if someone asks you when you last peed. IF your body is releasing liquid your doing pretty good. 5) play it safe - if it starts getting to be too much stop and relax. Remember my experiences are not only playing Elizabethan noble but also working with people in full plate armor. I can remember a show we did one weekend in 99 degree humid heat that we were literally dropping people out after each show due to 1) heat and 2)flu. I was the only one sick that made all 6 shows and a lot of it was being very careful to take it easy an stay as cool as possible. That same weekend we had 1 actor drop - literally - with heat exhaustion due to not replacing minerals and 3 Knights literally sizzle skin on their armor. Total for the weekend starting with 40 actors we finished with a total of just under 20 from attrition. The troop has 7 people we watch closely because they have all heat exhausted before and once you do it the first time you become more susceptible to the problem. Happy playing Molly -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Theflamingneedle@aol.com Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 7:19 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Court Garb in hot weather (WAS:current and future work?) In a message dated 9/10/04 4:16:31 AM Central Daylight Time, Teddy@mdx.ac.uk writes: Avoid synthetic fibres.,,, thick/heavy natural fibres are often much cooler to wear than thin synthetics which don't let your skin breath. This is, in my opinion, the number one Golden Rule for costuming in any warm climate. Even a blend that is *mostly* natural but *some* synthetic, will cook you compared to all natural fibers. Avoid modern broadcloths for shirts and chemises; they're 65/35. Go with muslin or all-cotton, or pure silk if you can afford it and want to. Another tip is to build/develop your costume so that there's as little layering on your forearms and neck as possible. Pulse points such as the neck, forearms and backs of the legs can be cooled and thus cool off your whole body; holding a cool compress or ice to the inside of your wrists works miracles at cooling off your bloodstream. While it is definitely important to drink water, it is equally important to EAT. Every year at faire, we have young ladies go down right and left, who protest to our scolding, "but I drank water ALL DAY!" You have to replace more than just your body's water; you also have to replace the minerals and nutrients that are depleted through sweat. Take vitamins (daily, not just on faire mornings), try to intersperse something like gatorade that will replenish electrolytes, and eat proteins and all-natural carbs like fruits (bananas are excellent, they replace your potassium). Breads, sugars and other starchy carbs will not help; they'll make the situation worse. Go for a turkey leg rather than a stuffed baked potato. "Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance." -Will Durant _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 14 00:55:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8E4tGOl021806 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 00:55:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E4sU4d028400 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 22:54:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E4sLhL054422; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 22:54:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E4sJhL054348 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 22:54:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.145.182]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i8E4s8Av017195 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 14:54:11 +1000 Message-ID: <000101c49a16$c6a55ae0$b691d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040913083250.00bcf9b8@mail.katiesorchids.com><5.2.0.9.0.20040912181824.075f07e0@mail.katiesorchids.com><5.2.0.9.0.20040912181824.075f07e0@mail.katiesorchids.com><5.2.0.9.0.20040913083250.00bcf9b8@mail.katiesorchids.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040913104208.028bde10@mail.katiesorchids.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Jane Austin movies Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 12:21:41 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katie Pleasance" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 3:49 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Jane Austin movies > As I've been watching the movies, drooling over some of the dresses, it > constantly comes to my mind that the author must have been a horribly > bitter and unhappy woman. What you say about her life explains it. She > desperately wanted to climb to a higher social class and failed at the game > of getting a good (rich + personally acceptable) husband and became a > shrill critic of the system. > Did she prefer dramatic impoverishment over the option of marrying somebody > who lacked the social / financial status that she seems to have craved? Katie Well I don't see her as bitter about not getting a rich husband, I see her more as angry that she didn't have another option. Jane Austen does have a lot of stereotypes and you aren't actually supposed to like a lot of her characters, she didn't like them herself. e.g. In P&P the only characters you're supposed to like are Lizzy, Jane & Mr. Darcy & probably Mr. Bennett, & Mr. Bingley. You aren't always even supposed to like the heroine e.g in Mansfield Park a lot of scholars think she was using Fanny to parody her society's ideal of the passive woman. I've just been watching Regency house party (another one of those history meets reality TV shows from the BBC) very pretty costumes and you can see them in their underwear. One inaccuracy I noticed was the ladies companion had a corset with a front closing busk, I think they cheated because she didn't have her own maid to dress her. Anyway back to the point after reading through the list of the dead in a reproduction of the Times from the day when the news of the battle of Trafalgar reached England. One of the women made the point that with the Napoleonic wars at the time Jane's situation as a spinster was quite possibly not that uncommon, rather like the 20th century situation after the 1st & 2nd world wars a generation of men had died and a generation of women were left without a possible husband. IIRC her sister Cassandra was engaged to a soldier who died on the continent. In the normal course of things the numbers are fairly evenly distributed both sexes may die young of disease, 1/5 of women died in childbirth (another fact courtesy of Regency house party) and men were (and still are) more likely to die in accidents (often doing stupid or violent things, e.g.. duelling) when a war comes along it upsets the balance. Well that was at least partly on topic (I'm getting better *g*) Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole in OR in Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra, Australia ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 14 00:56:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8E4ulhb021811 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 00:56:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E4t74d028453 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 22:55:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E4t6hL054910; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 22:55:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E4sMhL054336 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 22:54:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.145.182]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i8E4s8At017195 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 14:54:09 +1000 Message-ID: <000001c49a16$c578c1c0$b691d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: jane austin movies Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 11:25:27 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Back to costume content -- has anyone seen the old black and white "P&P" > with ... oh darn it, who are they? Greer Garson, maybe, and one of the > Barrymores? It's a real hoot, and the costumes are hilarious. A bizarre > mixture of 1930s or 40s Hollywood and Regency. > > Gail Finke Yes, it was so funny, I mean IMO the fashions of the 1830s look ridiculous anyway, but the way they distorted the plot was even more ridiculous. The one I really remember is that Lady Catherine's visit to demand that Lizzy promise to refuse Darcy's proposal, was actually a plot hatched between Darcy and Lady Catherine so Darcy could know Lizzy's true feelings. So utterly ridiculous you had to laugh, though a Jane Austen purist may have been tempted to cry. Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole in OR in Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra, Australia ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 14 01:00:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8E50atg021845 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 01:00:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E4xx4d028808 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 23:00:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E4xwhL057564; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 22:59:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E4xuhL057531 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 22:59:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.145.182]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i8E4xrEk018101 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 14:59:53 +1000 Message-ID: <000a01c49a17$92e62c60$b691d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Jane Austen movies was: Austin movies Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 14:59:09 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lauren Walker" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 12:43 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Jane Austen movies was: Austin movies > > The English major must speak: Jane Austen. With an "e". I think that may be a result of a spell checker, mine also wants to change Austen to Austin. This is why you can't rely exclusively on spell checkers. Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole in OR in Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra, Australia ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 14 01:14:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8E5EQEu021879 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 01:14:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E53k4d029224 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Sep 2004 23:03:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E53jhL059700; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 23:03:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E53fhL059656 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 23:03:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.145.182]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i8E53cXa018627 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 15:03:38 +1000 Message-ID: <001701c49a18$18b4a100$b691d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040914020900.58186.qmail@web20827.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Elizabeth I and smallpox Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 15:02:51 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > There are several diaries and letters home from foreigners in England > who remarked that the English women prefered the shiny complexion from > the egg whites. Most Continental Europeans prefered the more matte > look from powders. In fact, the most popular powder came from Spain. > (I can't say I've ever noticed a pale complexion in a Spanish portrait, > but I certainly haven't seen them all.) > Egg whites certainly wouldn't give you a pale complexion, they were the > "glue" that kept the powder on your face. The alum would have had the > lightening properties, as indicated in the Merriam-Webster dictionary > "Common alum is the double sulphate of aluminium and potassium. It is > white, transparent, very astringent, and crystallizes easily in > octahedrons." > ~Margaret Thanks for that info I was wondering about what the Alum would do. Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole in OR in Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra, Australia ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 14 02:38:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8E6cMlM003309 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 02:38:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E6ao4d004836 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Sep 2004 00:36:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E6ajhL011383; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 00:36:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41005.mail.yahoo.com (web41005.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8E6adhL011258 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 00:36:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from tania_gr17@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040914063633.6579.qmail@web41005.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.79.63.35] by web41005.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Sep 2004 23:36:33 PDT Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 23:36:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Tania Gruning Subject: Re: Viking brooches WAS: [h-cost] current and future work? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <87A506E53AFF4C4CB2C565044BA209E743D9A6@rfc1918.space.should.not.be.used.on.publicips> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO perhaps you should try one of the danish museums, they often have replicas for sale, unfortunately it is mostly gold, silver and amber as far as i remember, been a while since i last went to a viking museum. Here is one e-shop, from the vikingship museeum in Denmark http://secom.dynamicweb.dk/ Tania Lena Strid wrote: I wrote: >> - Make a 10th century Hedeby/Křstrup apron dress so I would more blend in >> with the Hiberno-Norse group I sometimes play with. (hmmm, need to get >> tortoise shell brooches as well...) Cathy replied: > If you need ideas where to look for tortoise brooches, I have a list of favorite sites you may find useful... Yes, please... I'm aiming for a southern Scandinavian look, and most merchants (IIRC) seem to favour the Norwegian brooches. There's got to be someone out there that makes replicas of Danish/south Swedish tortoise shell brooches - I hope. /Lena ================================================= Margaret Gowen & Co. Ltd. Archaeological Consultants & Project Managers 2 Killiney View Tel: 01-2300433 Albert Road Lower Fax: 01-2300865 Glenageary e-mail: archaeology@mglarc.com Co. Dublin website: http://www.mglarc.com ================================================= CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email is private and confidential and may contain legally privileged information. If you are not named above as an addressee it may be unlawful for you to read, copy, distribute, disclose or otherwise use the information in this email. If you are not the intended recipient of this email please contact our systems administrator. Thank you. NOTE Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company or its associated companies unless otherwise specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 14 03:23:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8E7NWsc017814 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 03:23:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E7MC4d007562 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Sep 2004 01:22:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E7M9hL037209; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 01:22:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E7M6hL037183 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 01:22:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-164.cvip.net [129.8.205.164]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B2265DDD9 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 00:21:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040914001055.00b19278@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 00:16:08 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Jane Austin movies In-Reply-To: <000101c49a16$c6a55ae0$b691d6cb@ewalpole> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040913083250.00bcf9b8@mail.katiesorchids.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040912181824.075f07e0@mail.katiesorchids.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040912181824.075f07e0@mail.katiesorchids.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040913083250.00bcf9b8@mail.katiesorchids.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040913104208.028bde10@mail.katiesorchids.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:21 PM 9/14/2004 +1000, you wrote: >One inaccuracy I noticed was the ladies companion >had a corset with a front closing busk, I think they cheated because she >didn't have her own maid to dress her. Would there be a problem with the ladies companion wearing the front closing busk? If it is how would she lace herself into it; well I witnessed another member of this list (Kendra, you still here?) last year at Costume College put herself into a Victorian corset, front busked, and lace herself into the corset rather nicely. No help from her roommates at all. I was stunned that this could be done, and so easily too (I think she is well practiced). But while I am fond of Victorian things, I have yet gotten around to making much from this time period. If there was a different inaccuracy, then ignore the above and please explain the inaccuracy you saw. Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 14 03:23:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8E7NfUH017837 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 03:23:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E7NB4d007622 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Sep 2004 01:23:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E7NAhL037672; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 01:23:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E7MJhL037264 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 01:22:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-164.cvip.net [129.8.205.164]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id D13BF5D70A for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 00:21:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040914001753.024f8c68@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 00:20:40 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: RE: [h-cost] Court Garb in hot weather (WAS:current and future work?) In-Reply-To: References: <13f.c484a6.2e7311cc@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:33 PM 9/13/2004 -0700, you wrote: >Also I line my corset in >flannel, in 101 degree dry heat (Eastern Washington desert) I do fine all >day in BLACK because the undergarments work with not against my body >cooling. Hi Molly, How does flannel help the body? I am to switch to linen linings because I understand linen wicks sweat (just did this for my husband's doublet and he is happier in the heat wearing all black velveteen), but I hadn't heard anything before about flannel. Is that cotton flannel? Thanks, Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 14 03:51:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8E7po1M026855 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 03:51:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E7p84d009465 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Sep 2004 01:51:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E7p5hL052327; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 01:51:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out014.verizon.net (out014pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E7p2hL052302 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 01:51:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from queenscorner@verizon.net) Received: from brandyscomp.verizon.net ([4.15.124.84]) by out014.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040914075102.BZXI24490.out014.verizon.net@brandyscomp.verizon.net> for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 02:51:02 -0500 Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.2.20040914004904.01c07ec0@incoming.verizon.net> X-Sender: queenscorner@incoming.verizon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 00:50:51 -0700 To: Historical Costume , Historical Costume From: brandy deming In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20040914001753.024f8c68@64.87.54.245> References: <13f.c484a6.2e7311cc@aol.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20040914001753.024f8c68@64.87.54.245> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out014.verizon.net from [4.15.124.84] at Tue, 14 Sep 2004 02:51:01 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] I'm Still Here X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I haven't posted in a while, and just thought I'd let everyone know I am still here. Kyle and I are getting a divorce and so live has been pretty hectic. I'm still glancing at the list and just haven't had the time to look everything over. I'll get to it eventually. Thanks, Brandy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 14 05:05:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8E95OIt025239 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 05:05:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E94Z4d023752 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Sep 2004 03:04:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E94QhL093252; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 03:04:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E94LhL093166 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 03:04:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i8E94Ea06849.; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 10:04:15 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 10:04:14 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 10:03:53 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: [h-cost] Re: iron lungs, smallpox Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lady Mary Wortley Montagu introduced inoculation with smallpox itself, but people were understandably nervous of deliberately infecting themselves. It was when Jenner discovered that cowpox, a mild illness, conferred immunity to smallpox that the idea really took off. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 14 05:12:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8E9Cpa8027116 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 05:12:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E9CH4d024666 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Sep 2004 03:12:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E9CGhL097494; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 03:12:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk ([193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E9CAhL097175 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 03:12:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i8E9BXa07781.; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 10:11:33 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 10:11:33 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 10:11:16 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Jane Austen movies Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne wrote: >My two cents also. >I was quite surprised when i watched Sense and Sensabillity, that the >widow got nothing after her husband, and her daughters neither. It >never accured to me that it only was the eldest son who got the whole >thing. Actually, in the book Jane Austen explains that Mr. Dashwood had inherited his house from a rich relation on condition that he leave it to his son from his first marriage. The old man had taken a fancy to the boy. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 14 05:35:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8E9Zwqr027571 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 05:35:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E9U84d026095 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Sep 2004 03:30:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E9U4hL007478; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 03:30:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E9TshL007235 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 03:29:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.147.116]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i8E9TenG016156 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 19:29:40 +1000 Message-ID: <000e01c49a3d$4395f480$7493d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040913083250.00bcf9b8@mail.katiesorchids.com><5.2.0.9.0.20040912181824.075f07e0@mail.katiesorchids.com><5.2.0.9.0.20040912181824.075f07e0@mail.katiesorchids.com><5.2.0.9.0.20040913083250.00bcf9b8@mail.katiesorchids.com><5.2.0.9.0.20040913104208.028bde10@mail.katiesorchids.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20040914001055.00b19278@64.87.54.245> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Jane Austin movies Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 19:28:49 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kimiko Small" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 5:16 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Jane Austin movies > At 12:21 PM 9/14/2004 +1000, you wrote: > >One inaccuracy I noticed was the ladies companion > >had a corset with a front closing busk, I think they cheated because she > >didn't have her own maid to dress her. > > > Would there be a problem with the ladies companion wearing the front > closing busk? > > If it is how would she lace herself into it; Well busks that act like a set of hooks & eyes (as opposed to the older form of a straight piece of wood/metal/horn or other similarly stiff material) were invented around the 1840s IIRC. Before that corsets were pulled on over the head and then laced tight in the back which was what all the higher ranking ladies did in this show. This show was supposed to be set in 1805 (IIRC) several decades before the invention of the front closing busk. It seems this young lady didn't lace herself into her corset but relied on a passing maid to give her a hand when they had a spare minute. I know I can lace myself into my 16th century corset, which only opens in the back, very easily, but a regency corset may be more difficult. Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole in OR in Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra, Australia ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 14 05:43:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8E9hlfO027610 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 05:43:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E9h64d026759 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Sep 2004 03:43:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E9h3hL014597; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 03:43:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E9h0hL014564 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 03:43:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.147.116]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i8E9guwT017814 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 19:42:57 +1000 Message-ID: <001e01c49a3f$1e3196c0$7493d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040913083250.00bcf9b8@mail.katiesorchids.com><5.2.0.9.0.20040912181824.075f07e0@mail.katiesorchids.com><5.2.0.9.0.20040912181824.075f07e0@mail.katiesorchids.com><5.2.0.9.0.20040913083250.00bcf9b8@mail.katiesorchids.com><5.2.0.9.0.20040913104208.028bde10@mail.katiesorchids.com><5.2.1.1.0.20040914001055.00b19278@64.87.54.245> <000e01c49a3d$4395f480$7493d6cb@ewalpole> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Jane Austin movies Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 19:42:12 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This show was supposed to be set in 1805 Whoops, that should have been 1815 & the battle of Waterloo not 1805 & the battle of Trafalgar. Sorry. Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole in OR in Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra, Australia ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 14 05:46:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8E9kXSb027647 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 05:46:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E9ih4d027034 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Sep 2004 03:44:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E9ifhL015620; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 03:44:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk ([193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8E9iahL015191 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 03:44:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i8E9hxa11519.; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 10:43:59 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 10:43:58 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 10:43:43 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Wet weather garb/English Summers (WAS: Court Garbin hot weather) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The main thing about British weather is that it's unpredictable (hence the popularity of "talking about the weather" - there's usually something good or bad worth commenting on)! Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> mooncat@in-tch.com 14/09/2004 02:29:33 >>> Yeah? I think you guys keep saying that to scare off the tourists! When Jane and I were over there 2 years ago, it didn't rain once! Okay, so I saw a bare handful of raindrops my first day in Dublin, but that was it! Amazing humidity, though! --sue, from (usually) much drier MT Teddy wrote: > > Margo, you and Wayne come over and visit me one summer and I'll show you > what it's like over here. > > A "lovely summer evening" in England can often mean that the rain is > nice and warm.... > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 14 06:18:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8EAIeRD028154 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 06:18:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EACp4d028853 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Sep 2004 04:12:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EACmhL031321; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 04:12:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk ([193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EACjhL030963 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 04:12:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i8EAC8a14594.; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 11:12:08 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 11:12:07 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 11:11:37 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Jane Austen movies Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, I recently read a life of Jane Austen and I certainly don't have the impression that she was embittered or "desperately wanted to climb to a higher social class". She was a kind, humorous person much loved by her many nephews and nieces. Of course, as others have commented, it was considered prudent and sensible to look for an advantageous marriage and to make use of influential family connections. She herself described Emma as "a character no-one but myself will much like." I'm not sure, though, that Mr. Bennett is as contented as Fran suggests. He avoids the company of his silly wife and younger daughters, and realises too late that the scandal over Lydia might have been avoided if he had kept a closer eye on them. Personally, I like the Ang Lee "Sense and Sensibility". I'm not a fan of Hugh Grant, but I thought it was clever of Emma Thompson to have Edward endear himself to Elinor by his kindness to her little sister. (For those who haven't read the book, Margaret is older than she is in the film and you have to take the author's word for it that Edward is a lovable man.) Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 14 07:21:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8EBLGiH029016 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 07:21:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EBKY4d003683 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Sep 2004 05:20:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EBKGhL068132; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 05:20:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp3.suscom.net (smtp3.suscom.net [64.78.119.250]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EBJuhM067816 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 05:20:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp3.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07723DC1FD for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 07:19:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.78.64.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp3.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 54D77DC062 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 06:55:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <009b01c49a49$5a901a60$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Wet weather garb/English Summers (WAS: CourtGarbin hot weather) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 06:55:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 5:43 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Wet weather garb/English Summers (WAS: CourtGarbin hot weather) > The main thing about British weather is that it's unpredictable (hence > the popularity of "talking about the weather" - there's usually > something good or bad worth commenting on)! It's a common saying in Michigan that if you don't like the weather, wait five minutes..it will change. And it's true. Hence my love of the month of March in all its extremism. Dianne > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 14 07:35:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8EBZUto029228 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 07:35:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EBYo4d004610 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Sep 2004 05:34:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EBYmhL076799; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 05:34:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grunt5.ihug.co.nz (grunt5.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EBYihL076672 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 05:34:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from p408-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.193.154] by grunt5.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1C7BZv-0001la-00; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 23:34:31 +1200 Message-ID: <002401c49a4e$cc47a330$9ac1adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040913083250.00bcf9b8@mail.katiesorchids.com><5.2.0.9.0.20040912181824.075f07e0@mail.katiesorchids.com><5.2.0.9.0.20040912181824.075f07e0@mail.katiesorchids.com><5.2.0.9.0.20040913083250.00bcf9b8@mail.katiesorchids.com><5.2.0.9.0.20040913104208.028bde10@mail.katiesorchids.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20040914001055.00b19278@64.87.54.245> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 23:34:28 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] lacing oneself in a victorian corset, was Jane Asten movies. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > If it is how would she lace herself into it; well I witnessed another > member of this list (Kendra, you still here?) last year at Costume College > put herself into a Victorian corset, front busked, and lace herself into > the corset rather nicely. No help from her roommates at all. I was stunned > that this could be done, and so easily too (I think she is well practiced). > But while I am fond of Victorian things, I have yet gotten around to making > much from this time period. Yep. I just did so this evening:) 1880s corset straight from corsets's and Crinoline's as I wanted to see how the original pattern would work for me rather than scaling it out. http://costumes.glittersweet.com/historical/1880underwear.htm It works better than my scaled versions. I think because it's larger in the bust which then gives me a real bosom rather than flattening out what I do have. It does need to be nipped in a tiny bit though as I'm wearing it a tad higher than it was meant to (adjusted lacing accordingly) to get a bit more coverage for when I wear it in a theatrical setting. In other words with no chemise. It's rather easy one you work out the logistics to self lace, and I have really arthritic hands so if it's ok for me... If you have it partially pulled at the back it's a big help, and if you have the loops at the waist it's infinitely easier;) you pull the loops a little so you can bring the ends round to the front, and swap hands, so you get a cross over at the back. When you pull then you are pulling in the right direction the laces need to go. I then hold the laces with one hand wringgle one arm up the back and start working the laces seperately, keeping tension in the loops that are getting longer and longer. I then have to get someone to tie them in the back, or I just knot them at the front. I can imagine this would be much harder to do with regency stays as they are longer and go up higher. It's still possible but difficult. michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 14 09:32:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8EDWuhJ031495 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 09:32:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EDWD4d012083 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Sep 2004 07:32:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EDW6hL045104; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 07:32:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta9.adelphia.net (mta9.adelphia.net [68.168.78.199]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EDW1hL044999 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 07:32:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from randl@adelphia.net) Received: from adelphia.net ([69.169.181.2]) by mta9.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.02 201-2131-111-104-20040324) with ESMTP id <20040914133155.NAKP2583.mta9.adelphia.net@adelphia.net> for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 09:31:55 -0400 Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 09:31:54 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Wet weather garb/English Summers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: randl@adelphia.net To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <200409140722.i8E7MPhM037321@net.indra.com> Message-Id: <715617E9-0652-11D9-B053-000393D2F36E@adelphia.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This brings to mind a morning at Pennsic one year.... The rain was falling sideways and had begun the evening before, but that was not enough to turn us from our path. The muddy ground pulled at our boots and dragged at hems of our wool gowns. We weary and hungry but strove ever forward to our goal. Finally, there before us-The Merchant Area. Many of the merchants were still closed but we were undaunted, knowing that not all cowered behind dripping canvas walls. As we approached one sodden tent, a passing fighter called out. "What are you ladies doing out in this weather?" My friend and I exchanged a look. I shrugged and called back. "Weather? This is a fine Scottish morning, lad!" Laurie On Tuesday, September 14, 2004, at 03:22 AM, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: > > Yeah? I think you guys keep saying that to scare off the tourists! When > Jane and I were over there 2 years ago, it didn't rain once! > Okay, so I saw a bare handful of raindrops my first day in Dublin, but > that was it! > Amazing humidity, though! > --sue, from (usually) much drier MT > > Teddy wrote: > >> >> Margo, you and Wayne come over and visit me one summer and I'll show >> you >> what it's like over here. >> >> A "lovely summer evening" in England can often mean that the rain is >> nice and warm.... >> _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 14 09:39:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8EDdi3B031608 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 09:39:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EDd34d012488 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Sep 2004 07:39:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EDd2hL049322; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 07:39:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EDcvhL049152 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 07:38:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 08:38:45 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 08:38:29 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Old movies, costume treasures X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Watch the 20's and 30's "historical" operettas like Jeannette MacDonald (sp?) Fast forward to the group scenes. Ignore the stars in their brand new stuff. Look at the background players, especially when they have things like "court" scenes. You'll drool. Amazing early Victorian in two of the movies. Wonderful other dresses as soon as you look past the principals. -Cat- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I remember reading somewhere that there used to be extras who specialized in 'fancy dress', and even provided their own costumes. Could it be that some of these were actual garments preserved from the Victorian era? Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 14 10:08:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8EE83pV032156 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 10:08:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EE614d014869 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Sep 2004 08:06:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EE5xhL067993; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 08:05:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EE5uhL067881 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 08:05:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m188.in-tch.com [216.166.191.188]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i8EE52807976 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 08:05:03 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <4146FBC3.8090803@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 08:10:11 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Wet weather garb/English Summers (WAS: Court Garbin hot weather) References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It's unpredictable here, too, but on the drier/hotter end of the scale, although not as bad as the desert states/areas like AZ, SoCal, etc. Just this past weekend, I went to a camping event (SCA Coronation), where we had very pleasant temperatures for this far into September--no frost at night, which was freakin' amazing, and somewhere in the 80s during the days. I got a bit too hot because instead of packing my okay linen gown and shift, like a good, heat-sensitive girl, I packed one of my spiffier ItalianRens, which happens to be made of cotton. (when *will* I learn???) --sue Kate M Bunting wrote: > The main thing about British weather is that it's unpredictable (hence > the popularity of "talking about the weather" - there's usually > something good or bad worth commenting on)! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 14 10:11:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8EEBfxB032241 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 10:11:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EEAt4d015277 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Sep 2004 08:10:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EEAshL071601; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 08:10:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail7.mdx.safepages.com (mail7.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EEAqhL071560 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 08:10:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail7.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id D49C9E46E4; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 14:10:47 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust237.tnt2.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.178.237]) by mail7.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id B5432E46A5 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 14:10:45 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <037001c49a64$a35106e0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] shearling wool Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 09:10:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think I probably will opt for the more expensive lambskin. I was planning to split the skin of the shearling (the sample I looked at made it seem easy enough, but I've never really done that before) but... I think I'd rather pay the extra. I'm fine with heavy, and I'm fine with however the fur behaves; the whole idea is to find out HOW an accurate sort of fur really DOES behave as a lining on my favorite style of gown! (I wonder if Ophelia would have been wearing a fur-lined garment?) I wouldn't mind using old fur coats to do this, but I'm quite sure I'd need at least two or more coats with well matched fur for the gown I have in mind--it may happen some day, but I'm too impatient! -E House Liberty in Our Lifetime - www.freestateproject.org Coming Soon - http://www.seamcheckers.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 14 10:21:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8EELTTK032552 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 10:21:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EEKQ4d016217 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Sep 2004 08:20:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EEKOhL078310; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 08:20:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EEKKhL078268 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 08:20:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kat@redtrollforge.com) Received: from katscomputer (ip143.132.du.eli.iinet.com [67.136.132.143]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B3AB6AEB8 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 07:20:12 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@redtrollforge.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 07:19:38 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: iron lungs, smallpox Message-ID: <41469B8A.18879.284236A@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Lady Mary Wortley Montagu introduced inoculation with smallpox itself, > but people were understandably nervous of deliberately infecting > themselves. It was when Jenner discovered that cowpox, a mild illness, > conferred immunity to smallpox that the idea really took off. It took off very slowly unfortunately. Jenner had discovered that the reason that milkmaids tended to have such beautiful complexions (because they were unmarked) was because they usually got cowpox. So, he tried it. However, it turned out that people were just as wary about that idea as many current people are about new immunizations. In fact, when I did a lecture a few years back about the need for all the doctors in our community to work together to get the immunization rate up, I used that as an example of the rumors and fears that can cause people to not get immunized. (I also gave a timeline on when various immunizations were introduced and how the diseases declined afterward. I wish I could find the thing. It took me about 2 weeks to track down all the information on it and I really don't want to have to go through that all again. Of course, that was just before we moved and then moved again so who knows where it ended up!) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 14 10:27:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8EERDkB032647 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 10:27:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EEQQ4d016760 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Sep 2004 08:26:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EEQNhL082996; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 08:26:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out008.verizon.net (out008pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.108]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EEQJhL082941 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 08:26:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jeanine@woollycat.net) Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([141.154.29.143]) by out008.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040914142618.BYRK8960.out008.verizon.net@[127.0.0.1]> for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 09:26:18 -0500 Message-ID: <4146FFD1.1070604@woollycat.net> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 10:27:29 -0400 From: "Jeanine E. Swick" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040803 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <200409140050.i8E0oJhM002881@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: <200409140050.i8E0oJhM002881@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out008.verizon.net from [141.154.29.143] at Tue, 14 Sep 2004 09:26:10 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 754: Solar powered jacket X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----------- Message: 7 Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 19:26:40 -0400 From: "Carolann Schmitt" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Fwd: Solar powered jacket To: "'Historical Costume'" Message-ID: <001601c499e9$24934f00$0300a8c0@genteelarts> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Even smaller world. I'm KB3JXW, hubby is K3DCS, and my boss (who also does the NYC marathon, in the lead vehicle no less) in N4RH. Carolann Schmitt ---------------- Another ham here! I'm N1QIT, my husband is KD1SM, my kids are N1QDZ & N1QLV, and the son-in-law is KB1HBH (he had to get the license to make things legal ;) ). The granddaughter (not quite 4) is a bit young to get a license yet, but she is fascinated by the sound of code. There are many possibilities in that jacket. Jeanine in MA _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 14 10:57:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8EEvHVa000779 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 10:57:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EEqB4d019173 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Sep 2004 08:52:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EEq7hL001688; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 08:52:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8EEq3hL001548 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 08:52:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m08.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABAWQBL6AT4J552 for (sender ); Tue, 14 Sep 2004 07:51:08 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OvyWcI4RQhl4x6n0geejqxc= Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id J7HDUPFM; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 07:50:49 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 07:48:14 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Court Garb in hot weather (WAS:current and future work?) Message-ID: <20040914.074949.1964.1.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-11,13-17,19,21-23,25-27 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-ContentStamp: 9:4:1854891595 X-MAIL-INFO: 355e63dbf79a2a0f2a3ade4f9af3733a93dbfedb5bc3476a9af3cbee431f2b4e3e2e4ea75a3ee3e3cfe357c7ce8e03bb773f330713339fd3072a2a1a X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > 3) build smart - Fans are a part of the costumes for good reason, > have a > place you can drop a layer or can other wise break in the shade to > let your > temperature drop. Hats need to be removable. Also I line my corset > in > flannel, in 101 degree dry heat (Eastern Washington desert) I do > fine all > day in BLACK because the undergarments work with not against my body > cooling. Another thing that works--line your coif or cap in cotton flannel and soak it. It will help keep you cool for hours. > 4) stay aware of yourself and others - the best experiences I've had > in faire are watching people pull together so everyone plays and has > fun and watches out for each other. Water bearers are a godsend. Don't be > offended if someone asks you when you last peed. IF your body is releasing > liquid your doing pretty good. And if you notice that your pee is getting darker, it can be a sign that you're getting dehydrated. Arlys ________________________________________________________________ Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 14 10:59:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8EExZLG000808 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 10:59:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EEww4d019973 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Sep 2004 08:58:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EEwshL006899; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 08:58:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EEwphL006858 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 08:58:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.100] (pm7-100.eos.net [205.133.149.100]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i8EEwjvK001445 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 10:58:46 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 10:55:00 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200409132141.i8DLeuhM069698@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: jane austin X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cynthia Virtue wrote: > The clergyman? :) Yes, dear... don't forget, this is England we're talking about. The clergymen there married, or most of them did. There was still a tradition of celebacy among the Anglicans, but lots of them got married. The horrible Mr. Collins from Pride & Prejudice (played so wonderfully in the recent A&E version) was a clergyman, for example. Now, my clergymen don't get married, in any era, so I understand the confusion. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 14 11:15:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8EFF1JR001227 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 11:15:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EFE74d021629 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Sep 2004 09:14:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EFE4hL017694; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 09:14:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EFDthL017499 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 09:13:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from webwarren@earthlink.net) Received: from cottontail.webwarren.com (pcp0010285386pcs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.44.18.221]) by webwarren.com (8.12.10/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i8EFDc3N004437 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 11:13:40 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.0.20040914110537.040caec0@earthlink.net> X-Sender: n2kye@mail.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 11:10:51 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Subject: Small world/hams-on-board (WAS: Re: RE: [h-cost] Fwd: Solar powered jacket) In-Reply-To: <200409140050.i8E0oGhM002839@net.indra.com> References: <200409140050.i8E0oGhM002839@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 05:50 PM 9/13/2004, Carolann Schmitt wrote: >Even smaller world. I'm KB3JXW, hubby is K3DCS, and my boss (who also does >the NYC marathon, in the lead vehicle no less) in N4RH. I'm N2KYE, Frank is KB4CYC (and is radio mile captain for mile 20). About the time I got my ticket, Steve Mendelsson (W2ML, ex WA2DHF) was active in the same digital-mode-intense club (Radio Amateur Telecommunication Society, aka RATS) as Frank, and often attended the meetings. It's been almost "traditional" to hand Steve a lunch bag as he passes by, hanging half out of the police cruiser... Hmm. This will be my 13th Marathon in 15 years as a ham... 73, Brenda F. Bell webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 14 11:49:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8EFniZe001810 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 11:49:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EFmZ4d025566 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Sep 2004 09:48:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EFmMhL044149; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 09:48:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m17.mx.aol.com (imo-m17.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.207]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EFmEhL044000 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 09:48:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.7.) id 6.6b.33b0a95d (4584) for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 11:48:01 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <6b.33b0a95d.2e786cb1@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 11:48:01 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Jane Austin movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/14/2004 5:30:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au writes: > I know I can > lace myself into my 16th century corset, which only opens in the back, very > easily, but a regency corset may be more difficult. > And I would think that an early 19th century corset would not be tight laced like later Victorian versions. This....and spiral lacing, would enable someone to more easily get it done up "correctly" by oneself. But in a house full of servants and/or siblings there are plenty of people to help you get laced up. It certainly would be no big deal since corsets were common. Compare it to getting your dress zipped up the back today. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 14 11:50:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8EFoxLS001830 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 11:50:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EFoH4d025770 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Sep 2004 09:50:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EFoChL045654; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 09:50:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EFo3hM045531 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 09:50:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-112-154.sonic.net [209.148.112.154]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i8EFo1Zd008379 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 08:50:02 -0700 Message-ID: <41471350.7000903@lavoltapress.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 08:50:40 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Jane Austen movies References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Well, I recently read a life of Jane Austen and I certainly don't have >the impression that she was embittered > No. But even if Jane Austen _had_ been embittered and unhappy, I don't see how that would invalidate her books in any way. Look at Charlotte Bronte, who wrote much more emotionally about feelings of restriction and rebellion at being forced into a middle-class woman's role and having no money. I haven't read a full bio, but I gather Bronte was a clergyman's daughter just hanging on financially, and had to work as a teacher herself. She (and most or all of her siblings) also had TB. Perhaps Bronte was embittered--but so what? It doesn't lower the quality of her books or make her message any less meaningful. > >I'm not sure, though, that Mr. Bennett is as contented as Fran >suggests. He avoids the company of his silly wife and younger daughters, >and realises too late that the scandal over Lydia might have been >avoided if he had kept a closer eye on them. > > > > Lydia's elopement makes Mr. Bennet genuinely unhappy and guilty; but he tells Elizabeth the impression will pass soon enough. Jane Austen seems to have felt that a sensible person made the best of not only whatever he or she was given, but the best of whatever he or she had screwed up. If Mr. Bennet had married a silly but pretty woman, he has the consolations of her beauty (at least when she was younger, and Mrs. Bennet may well still be a good-looking woman of her age), his country house and estate, fishing, books, and his favorite daughters. If he didn't respect his neighbors (and younger daughters!) he got fun out of gently satirizing them. If Lydia eloped with "one of the most worthless men in England," at least she was gotten respectably married with almost no damage to her reputation. Instead of eventually being dumped by Wickham and becoming a public prostitute, the likely alternative. Wickham is paid off with almost no financial cost to Mr. Bennet, which he was worried about. And, around the same time Mr. Bennet's two oldest daughters get engaged to extremely eligible (almost perfect) young men. One bad marriage (which is still better than no marriage) is balanced by two good ones. I doubt the incident with Lydia changed him much. Note that after marriage Elizabeth and Jane had Kitty for long visits and took her in hand to make her "less ignorant, less irritable, and less insipid." In other words they didn't feel she'd improve by staying at home. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 14 11:57:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8EFvHEZ001935 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 11:57:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EFud4d026504 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Sep 2004 09:56:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EFu9hL050379; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 09:56:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m27.mx.aol.com (imo-m27.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EFshhL049213 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 09:54:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.7.) id 6.1e4.2a9b41ab (4584) for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 11:54:34 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1e4.2a9b41ab.2e786e39@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 11:54:33 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Jane Austen movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/14/2004 11:50:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, fran@lavoltapress.com writes: > I haven't read a full bio, but I gather > Bronte was a clergyman's daughter My friend Michael had a 19th edition of a book by her Clergyman father "Lectures for Young Men". It was advice on career, gambling, how to act in society, and so forth. The chapter on "The Mysteries of Women" was hysterical! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 14 12:12:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8EGCRJp002250 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 12:12:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EGBi4d028540 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Sep 2004 10:11:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EGBbhL063266; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 10:11:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EGBLhL062943 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 10:11:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from LLWatts@aol.com) Received: from LLWatts@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.7.) id 6.149.3374334f (4328) for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 12:10:40 -0400 (EDT) From: LLWatts@aol.com Message-ID: <149.3374334f.2e787200@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 12:10:40 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6032 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Sort of OT: Dress Diaries? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Once I survive the local gaming convention and finish my nephew's final trick-or-treat costume, I've got a project in mind for myself. I have the Folkwear Beach Pyjamas pattern, what I would like to do is scale it up for my size and make it by summer 2005. I was thinking about doing a dress diary on this to help keep me on track, but I have a few questions about them. First, is it easier to run a dress diary on a webpage or set up a Live Journal for it? I know a web page can sit out there indefinitely once completed, do Live Journals need a certain amount of activity on them? In other words, would I have to keep running the LJ if I wanted the diary to remain available? Second, do I need to talk the aunt with the digital camera into photographing everything, or can I get away with taking regular pictures and getting a CD from the developer? (Yes, I know that would take a little longer -- but since I prefer handcoding HTML to using an Internet Explorer-only web page builder, I won't be setting any speed records for updates anyway :) .) Oh, yes, and one about the outfit -- anyone know what would have been worn under beach pyjamas? I really should get underpinnings settled before taking measurements .... Leah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 14 12:15:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8EGFH0Q002296 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 12:15:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EGET4d028826 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Sep 2004 10:14:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EGEHhL065343; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 10:14:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mxsf04.cluster1.charter.net (mxsf04.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.204]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EGCXhL063899 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 10:12:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from CatDevereaux@alleycatscratch.com) Received: from mxip14.cluster1.charter.net (mxip14a.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.144]) by mxsf04.cluster1.charter.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i8EGCO4i006075 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 12:12:24 -0400 Received: from 66-214-163-19.riv-eres.charterpipeline.net (HELO Maxwell) (66.214.163.19) by mxip14.cluster1.charter.net with ESMTP; 14 Sep 2004 12:12:24 -0400 X-Ironport-AV: i="3.84,155,1091419200"; d="scan'208"; a="308522039:sNHT37022938" From: "Cat Devereaux" To: Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 09:12:27 -0700 Message-ID: <002b01c49a75$a13c47f0$13a3d642@Maxwell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: <200409141421.i8EELMhN079012@net.indra.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Old movies, costume treasures X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>I remember reading somewhere that there used to be extras who specialized in 'fancy dress', and even provided their own costumes. Could it be that some of these were actual garments preserved from the Victorian era? They are the originals. You can tell just by looking which are the 30's "modern stuff" and where the background extras have the "real" stuff. Sometimes it's hard to define how you "know", but the details get richer, the shapes and fabric change. 30's sensibilities vs. 19th century. As to extra's who specialize. That still goes on today. There are the folks that buy a designer gown or two, have historic costumes (like a number of folks on list have done), have vintage car & gear to go with. Various extra casting agents specialize in these folks and even ask them to addition the costumes for them. Some stuff never changes. -Cat- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 14 12:49:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8EGnrgA002879 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 12:49:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EGn14d003426 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Sep 2004 10:49:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EGmnhL093715; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 10:48:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.67]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EGmghL093607 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 10:48:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from purplkat@optonline.net) Received: from optonline.net (mstr4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.15]) by mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTP id <0I4100C86IOIT9@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 12:48:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [167.206.5.79] (Forwarded-For: [167.206.224.2]) by mstr4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mshttpd); Tue, 14 Sep 2004 12:48:18 -0400 Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 12:48:18 -0400 From: purplkat@optonline.net To: Historical Costume Message-id: <18eeb8190f9d.190f9d18eeb8@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: iPlanet Messenger Express 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-language: en Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] GFDs ??? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO what is a GFD?? Katheryne catching up on 4 days of messages ----- Original Message ----- From: Dianne & Greg Stucki > I tried it > on, and with a few modifications, I think I can get a decent GFD > out of it. > > Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 14 12:53:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8EGrPLS002977 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 12:53:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EGqf4d003812 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Sep 2004 10:52:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EGqchL096565; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 10:52:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp3.suscom.net (smtp3.suscom.net [64.78.119.250]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EGqKhM096248 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 10:52:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp3.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AB9EDCBEC for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 12:52:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.78.64.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp3.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 6546BDC344 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 09:52:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00bb01c49a62$00daac60$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Old movies, costume treasures Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 09:51:58 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 9:38 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: Old movies, costume treasures > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > I remember reading somewhere that there used to be extras who > specialized in 'fancy dress', and even provided their own costumes. > Could it be that some of these were actual garments preserved from the > Victorian era? Possible. David Niven talked about this in his book "The Moon's a Balloon". (Required reading for anyone interested in movies and actors of this time period--as should be his follow up, Bring On the Empty Horses. Mr Niven was quite a raconteur) Dianne > > Catherine > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 14 12:58:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8EGwb65003093 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 12:58:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EGvi4d004574 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Sep 2004 10:57:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EGvdhL000932; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 10:57:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web50405.mail.yahoo.com (web50405.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.70]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8EGvahL000837 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 10:57:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dragonwolfcat@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040914165730.57201.qmail@web50405.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [146.82.36.102] by web50405.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 09:57:30 PDT Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 09:57:30 -0700 (PDT) From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Court Garb in hot weather (WAS:current and future work?) To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > *gee* this show sounds familiar.... JL > Remember my experiences are not only playing > Elizabethan noble but also > working with people in full plate armor. I can > remember a show we did one > weekend in 99 degree humid heat that we were > literally dropping people out > after each show due to 1) heat and 2)flu. I was the > only one sick that made > all 6 shows and a lot of it was being very careful > to take it easy an stay > as cool as possible. That same weekend we had 1 > actor drop - literally - > with heat exhaustion due to not replacing minerals > and 3 Knights literally > sizzle skin on their armor. Total for the weekend > starting with 40 actors > we finished with a total of just under 20 from > attrition. The troop has 7 > people we watch closely because they have all heat > exhausted before and once > you do it the first time you become more susceptible > to the problem. > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 14 13:42:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8EHgCtr003850 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 13:42:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EHfB4d009992 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Sep 2004 11:41:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EHf5hL040216; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 11:41:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EHexhL040139 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 11:41:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brujne@creighton.edu) Received: from cindyabel (cla53081.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA26643 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 12:40:44 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 12:39:07 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <002b01c49a75$a13c47f0$13a3d642@Maxwell> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Upcoming (to the U.S. side of the pond, anyway)shows of interest X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It isn't on the PBS website yet, but here are two series of interest to historic costumers. "Regency House Party" starts Nov 3rd. In the tradition of the 1900 House, Frontier House, and Colonial House, et.al. Young Brit singles and chaparones spend an English summer at a grand English country house to see how the dos and don'ts of upper-class matchmaking circa 1820-1830 impact on modern men and women. This time, servants and cooks were hired so the cast members don't have to do hard labor. From the book I bought off Amazon.ca earlier this year, the young women wear mostly light-colored gowns. "Henry VIII" Masterpiece Theatre, starts Nov 7th. Out on DVD Nov 16th according to amazon.com Ray Winston as Henry and Helena Bonham-Carter as Anne. Well, the costumes will be fun to judge. Also this fall is a series the "Lost Prince" set in late 19th-early 20th c England about one of the little-known descendants of Queen Victoria. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 14 13:51:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8EHpupD004216 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 13:51:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EHp64d011325 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Sep 2004 11:51:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EHp4hL048277; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 11:51:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EHp1hL048239 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 11:51:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10449 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 12:58:13 -0500 Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 12:58:13 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] GFDs, and cotehardies In-Reply-To: <18eeb8190f9d.190f9d18eeb8@optonline.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 purplkat@optonline.net wrote: > what is a GFD?? Gothic fitted dress. That's a term I've used in my lectures to refer to the woman's basic body garment (worn over the chemise, alone or with an overgown on top) of about 1350-1450, Western Europe. Purely a descriptive term: It coincides with the art style known as "International Gothic"; it's fitted; it's a dress. People who have heard me talk about this over the years have picked up the term, and of course initialized it. In period, the dress would have been called by many different names depending on language -- kirtle, cote, cotte, gonella, etc. Modern costuming sources often call it a "cotehardie," which is a period term, but with a much narrower meaning. References to cotehardies in period seem universally to be overgowns -- fitted, yes, but not the same as the fitted underdress worn under the cotehardie. >From what I've seen so far in period documents, "cotehardie" seems to be used for both men's and women's fitted overgarments in French; in English, it seems to have been used mostly to refer to the men's (short) version. This distinction can be fuzzy when you're looking at, say, English royal inventories, because French was also spoken to some degree at the English court. In any case, I've only found a couple of English uses of "cotehardie" that appear to refer to women's garments. The most-cited one (from the Book of the Knight of the Tower) is from around 1450 (give or take a couple of decades), near or after the end of the fitted dress era and certainly well after the fashionable use of the overgarment called the "cotehardie" in England. The book in this case is actually a translation of a 1371 French book, so the 15th-c. English translator may have simply picked up the 14th-c. French term intact from the original, particularly if the dress style was already outdated enough that he didn't have an equivalent English term. In my GFD lecture, I mention that I don't agree with the common modern use of "cotehardie" to apply to the underdress (or, as some people use the term, to pretty much any fitted dress over a period of several centuries!). I then explain that in period it is most commonly used to refer to the man's short fitted overgarment, and probably also to the equivalent women's overgarment in some cases. Alas, I have found that some people have come away from the lecture remembering only half of this and are now quoting me as saying that the term "cotehardie" is inappropriate because it was only used for men's garments. That's not the case. The gender issue is minor (and only an issue in English); the essential point is that the term refers to a specific *layer*. The cotehardie was an overgarment, worn over a fitted dress that almost certainly was *not* itself called a cotehardie. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 14 14:12:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8EICkqo004607 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 14:12:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EIBt4d013897 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Sep 2004 12:11:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EIBphL064914; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 12:11:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EIBShL064559 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 12:11:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 13:11:17 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 13:11:06 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Old-movies, costume treasures X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I remember reading somewhere that there used to be extras who > specialized in 'fancy dress', and even provided their own costumes. > Could it be that some of these were actual garments preserved from the > Victorian era? Possible. David Niven talked about this in his book "The Moon's a Balloon". (Required reading for anyone interested in movies and actors of this time period--as should be his follow up, Bring On the Empty Horses. Mr Niven was quite a raconteur) Dianne >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That was it! Altho I think I read some support for it some where in a movie costume book. And Niven's books are hilarious, well worth the read, especially if you are a fan of the movies of the 30's, 40's & 50's. Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 14 14:48:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8EImDAV005167 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 14:48:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EIlP4d017300 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Sep 2004 12:47:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EIkJhL091373; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 12:46:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EIjGhL090552 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 12:45:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1C7IIi-0001Hd-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 18:45:12 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 19:43:34 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Chassidim References: <$iaZurJWv1QBJwTQ@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote > >On Sat, 11 Sep 2004, Jean Waddie wrote: > >> By chance the other day I came across information on modest dress and >> headcovering under Jewish law. I found it quite surprising. While >> Christian and Muslim tradition is mainly about covering oneself in >> public, particularly in front of unrelated men, the ideal of Jewish >> headcovering is apparently for a married woman to keep her hair >> covered at *all* times, including in bed with her husband, and when >> combing it - you do so under a loose scarf. So what looks like a very >> similar requirement in all three "Abrahamic" religions is actually >> quite different. > >This might well be a particularly strict interpretation of the law by one >particular ultra-Orthodox sect. I'm Jewish, with some familiarity of the >range of traditions among various Jewish movements, and I've never heard >that particular reading before. However, I wouldn't be surprised if >whoever wrote what you read made it sound as though this were some >canonical "Jewish Law" that was supposed to apply to all Jews. > >--Robin I went back and found the site: http://www.modestworld.com/laws.html#b It does cover everything from the most basic requirement up to the strictest. I found it very interesting, in fact, the way the law and commentary actually seems to be set out that way, with different levels to "choose from" (I suspect that's not the right interpretation, but you can read the site and see how it reads to you), where I am more used to a system that sets an absolute requirement, and then commentaries argue about what is sufficient to count as meeting that requirement. I didn't mean to imply that the "ideal" level was expected of every woman. Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 14 14:51:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8EIpGQh005230 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 14:51:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EIoJ4d017650 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Sep 2004 12:50:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EIo5hL094441; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 12:50:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EInthL094251 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 12:49:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1C7INF-0001yv-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 18:49:53 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 19:48:22 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: the word "kit" References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A28@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A28@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Teddy wrote > >> >I'm going to make a stab at it and see if I'm right! As I understand >> >it, the word "kit" is used by many reenactment groups to mean all the > >> >"stuff" that appertains to their costume and/or the role they play. >So >> >it would mean their belts, knives, shoes, spoons, hatpins, etc. Not >> >just the garments. I don't know if it also includes furniture and >camp >> >things. In the US we generally use the word "kit" to mean gathered >> >parts you assemble into something else, such as a model airplane kit, > >> >but this is more in line with the (here) old soldier's "kit bag" use, > >> >ie "Pack up your troubles in your old kit bag and smile, smile, >smile!" >> > >> >Gail Finke >> > >> This is correct, but "kit" is used in both senses, eg: >> "we have so much kit we had to buy a larger car" and >> "sometimes I just walk to events in kit, rather than change >> when I get there" >> >> A lot of British reenactors also use "civvies" (ie, civilian clothes) >> for modern clothing, from the same military background. > >And to add to what Jean said, a some refer to non-re-enactors as >"grockles" (that isn't as common) and those who came into re-enactment >via SF fandom slip and refer to them byt the SF community name for non >fannish types and call them "Mundanes". Yesterday, when we were >coming towards the end of the day I asked someone if they were going to, >"travel home in kit or change into your mundanes?" > >Teddy I suspect "grockle" is regional - I came across it as a term for tourists when my sister lived on the Isle of Wight, and I've only heard it from people living in the south of England - and on Jersey! Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 14 15:20:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8EJKONE005724 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 15:20:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EJJK4d020637 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Sep 2004 13:19:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EJJChL018443; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 13:19:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp3.suscom.net (smtp3.suscom.net [64.78.119.250]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EJIvhM018162 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 13:19:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp3.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1D4FDC41E for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 15:18:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip244.97.78.64.susc.suscom.net [64.78.97.244]) by smtp3.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 57D5CDC8A1 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 14:30:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <03cb01c49a88$f4c6b730$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Old-movies, costume treasures Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 14:30:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 2:11 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: Old-movies, costume treasures > That was it! Altho I think I read some support for it some where in a > movie costume book. > > And Niven's books are hilarious, well worth the read, especially if you > are a fan of the movies of the 30's, 40's & 50's. > > Catherine It was funny that this came up when it did--I was in the middle of re-reading "The Moon's A Balloon" when the topic was raised. I thoroughly enjoy both of those books, and the man had a wicked sense of humor. Some beautiful photos in them too. Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 14 15:42:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8EJgCpl006095 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 15:42:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EJf04d022694 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Sep 2004 13:41:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EJeuhL035578; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 13:40:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EJephL035534 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 13:40:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11298 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 14:48:03 -0500 Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 14:48:03 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Chassidim In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 14 Sep 2004, Jean Waddie wrote: > I went back and found the site: > http://www.modestworld.com/laws.html#b > > It does cover everything from the most basic requirement up to the > strictest. I found it very interesting, in fact, the way the law and > commentary actually seems to be set out that way, with different > levels to "choose from" (I suspect that's not the right > interpretation, but you can read the site and see how it reads to > you), where I am more used to a system that sets an absolute > requirement, and then commentaries argue about what is sufficient to > count as meeting that requirement. I didn't mean to imply that the > "ideal" level was expected of every woman. Your description of "a system that sets an absolute requirement, and then commentaries argue about what is sufficient to count as meeting that requirement" is probably the more accurate description of Jewish legal interpretation. What you're seeing here is not levels of "requirements," basic to strict, to "choose from," but is actually part of the ongoing argument among commentators. This writer is trying to make a case for a more stringent level of observation that is not in fact generally accepted, but is the custom of certain small and ultra-conservative sects. What I think isn't clear to an outsider about this site is that the rules he describes are not actually an outline of the law. The first section does describe the law (phrased here as the "absolute requirement"), but then most of the rest is what this particular commentator (the author of this book) *thinks* people should do, and he cites particular opinions of earlier writers (not necessarily parts of Jewish law) to support his case. So, you'll see in the first section that the requirements are attributed to written law (Torah) and oral law (certain commentaries, which have the force of law for Orthodox Jews). After that, though, he departs from the law, and moves into what *he* and some other previous writers think people should do. First he gives an anecdote of a particularly pious woman who covered her hair at all times -- an ideal, as you note, but only in the eyes of certain people. It's not set out as an ideal by law, but is a traditional tale (according to him). The section right after, which warns of great harm and curses falling upon the homes of women who do not cover within the home, is also not from the law, but from the Zohar, a writing of the Kabbalah (sometimes called "Jewish mysticism") which is by no means universally accepted even among Orthodox Jews. (The Zohar has got some pretty wild things in it.) Again, you're seeing the editorializing of this particular author, who laments at the end "It is tragic that such an important Chazal (teaching of our sages) as this Zohar (a Kabbalistic writing) is not more widely known." Perhaps one way to understand the point of view on this page is to consider what a preacher/minister might say in a particularly conservative, fundamentalist Christian church, compared to what a minister might say in a more "mainstream" church. In both cases, it will sound like "This is what God tells us to do," but the messages will be quite different. And it's not always clear which points are, say, directly from the Bible, and which are just the custom of the particular church, because all are presented as coming from a point of authority. (I have watched as my fundamentalist nieces and nephews have been surprised to learn, as they grew older and had more contact outside the narrow church community, that not all Christians followed all the rules their minister told them were required of Christians.) It's also worth noting that this particular page, which cites passages from a single (modern) author's book on modesty, is not on a website about Jewish law or scholarship, but on a site selling "modest" clothing and accessories for women. And books, including this one. You can almost equate this to a health-food site selling supplements, complete with "medical articles" describing the benefits of particular compounds. That's not the same as an article in the New England Journal of Medicine -- but it sure looks authoritative if you don't know a lot about the field works. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 14 15:43:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8EJhBvt006100 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 15:43:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EJgC4d022833 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Sep 2004 13:42:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EJgAhL036582; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 13:42:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (e-smtp.socket.net [216.106.88.132]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EJfNhL035933 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 13:41:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31D562C02A for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 14:41:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p445.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.191]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 522ACC40F for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 14:41:21 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: Wet weather garb/English Summers Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 14:41:26 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <009b01c49a49$5a901a60$f4614e40@yourzpvq75jcr6> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In Missouri " If you like the weather, wait a few seconds or minutes, it will change." I have noted that while I was having my roof reshingled, it rained. Now that I have it reshingled and the gutters with guards it doesn't rain. De ----- Original Message ----- It's a common saying in Michigan that if you don't like the weather, wait five minutes..it will change. And it's true. Hence my love of the month of March in all its extremism. Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 14 15:51:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8EJpkaa006131 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 15:51:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EJp04d023825 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Sep 2004 13:51:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EJophL043502; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 13:50:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EJolhL043416 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 13:50:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1C7JK7-000BX3-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 19:50:43 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 20:49:25 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Chassidim References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote > >On Tue, 14 Sep 2004, Jean Waddie wrote: > >> I went back and found the site: >> http://www.modestworld.com/laws.html#b >> >> It does cover everything from the most basic requirement up to the >> strictest. I found it very interesting, in fact, the way the law and >> commentary actually seems to be set out that way, with different >> levels to "choose from" (I suspect that's not the right >> interpretation, but you can read the site and see how it reads to >> you), where I am more used to a system that sets an absolute >> requirement, and then commentaries argue about what is sufficient to >> count as meeting that requirement. I didn't mean to imply that the >> "ideal" level was expected of every woman. > >Your description of "a system that sets an absolute requirement, and then >commentaries argue about what is sufficient to count as meeting that >requirement" is probably the more accurate description of Jewish legal >interpretation. What you're seeing here is not levels of "requirements," >basic to strict, to "choose from," but is actually part of the ongoing >argument among commentators. This writer is trying to make a case for a >more stringent level of observation that is not in fact generally >accepted, but is the custom of certain small and ultra-conservative sects. > >It's also worth noting that this particular page, which cites passages >from a single (modern) author's book on modesty, is not on a website about >Jewish law or scholarship, but on a site selling "modest" clothing and >accessories for women. And books, including this one. You can almost >equate this to a health-food site selling supplements, complete with >"medical articles" describing the benefits of particular compounds. That's >not the same as an article in the New England Journal of Medicine -- but >it sure looks authoritative if you don't know a lot about the field works. > >--Robin > Thanks for the clarification. I know a lot of the sites on Christian women's headcovering can get pretty wacky, but for Christianity I know where the norm is, and I can pretty much tell how far to the side of that is the "norm" for Christians who cover. For other religions I don't have the same reference point, so it's helpful to have it pointed out. Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 14 20:03:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8F03sio007410 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 20:03:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EJv54d024473 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Sep 2004 13:57:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EJujhL048226; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 13:56:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8EJughL048108 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 13:56:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from PallasAMK@aol.com) Received: from PallasAMK@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.7.) id 6.67.3364547d (16035) for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 15:56:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aol.com (mow-m04.webmail.aol.com [64.12.184.132]) by air-id10.mx.aol.com (v101_r1.4) with ESMTP id MAILINID102-3ea341474cf11e6; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 15:56:33 -0400 Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 15:56:33 -0400 From: PallasAMK@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <7931D5BC.4ECCC62D.02708BA2@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 63.251.31.10 X-AOL-Language: english Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Dress Diaries & Folkwear Beach Pyjamas X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>Once I survive the local gaming convention and finish my nephew's final trick-or-treat costume, I've got a project in mind for myself.  I have the Folkwear Beach Pyjamas pattern, what I would like to do is scale it up for my size and make it by summer 2005. That is such a great pattern! I have made it twice, and it came out perfectly both times. Just a word abut the fit--I've read some complaints about the length of the body and the crotch depth being too long. While this is true to modern eyes, if you look at period photos of women in trousers or pyjamas, you'll see that the crotch does hang lower than we wear it now. (Goodness, that sounds so dreadful!) It gives it a nice, drapey fit. In terms of Dress Diaries--I've just started keeping one on LJ, which works best for me because I am a techno dork. It's very user friendly with a helpful and detailed FAQ that tells people like me how to post text and photos, use cutlines, etc. It isn't very flexible though, and I already find the formatting a little constricting. If you have any Web dexterity at all, I'd advise setting up your own site that addresses everything you want it to. I know that at some point down the line (well down the line!) I'd like to move my LJ dress diary to its own site. Pallas _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 14 20:19:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8F0Jfs1007452 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 20:19:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8F0J44d021991 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Sep 2004 18:19:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8F0IshL039144; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 18:18:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-118.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8F0IphL039098 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 18:18:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from reddawn.net (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by mail.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 582B1425DB for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 19:46:04 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <41478A50.9020803@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 19:18:24 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sort of OT: Dress Diaries? References: <149.3374334f.2e787200@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <149.3374334f.2e787200@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO LLWatts@aol.com wrote: > > Second, do I need to talk the aunt with the digital camera into photographing > everything, or can I get away with taking regular pictures and getting a CD > from the developer? I found it easier to upload from the digital on the day that I was working, and to write the daily blurb, than to add the pictures later. However, if that's the way that works best for you, don't let waiting a few weeks to fill a roll of film and get it processed slow you down on producing the diary. Sometimes if you don't have a picture you can write better descriptions of what you did because you don't have the option of saying "like in the photo". Which reminds me, I need to update my last dress diary now that the gown is finished and the event is over. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 14 21:12:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8F1CWsG007709 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 21:12:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8F1Bv4d025924 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Sep 2004 19:11:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8F1BthL066894; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 19:11:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8F1BrhL066874 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 19:11:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m120.in-tch.com [216.166.191.120]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i8F1B4t27735 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 19:11:04 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <414797DD.4090703@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 19:16:13 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] GFDs ??? References: <18eeb8190f9d.190f9d18eeb8@optonline.net> In-Reply-To: <18eeb8190f9d.190f9d18eeb8@optonline.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Gothic Fitted Dress, aka "Gothic Fitted Gown." --sue purplkat@optonline.net wrote: > what is a GFD?? > > Katheryne > catching up on 4 days of messages > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dianne & Greg Stucki > > >>I tried it >>on, and with a few modifications, I think I can get a decent GFD >>out of it. >> >>Dianne > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 14 22:22:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8F2MGUN008158 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 22:22:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8F2LS4d001305 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Sep 2004 20:21:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8F2LOhL002735; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 20:21:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mxsf14.cluster1.charter.net (mxsf14.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.214]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8F2LKhL002661 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 20:21:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lotsofteapots@charter.net) Received: from mxip06.cluster1.charter.net (mxip06a.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.136]) by mxsf14.cluster1.charter.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i8F2LDXO006384 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 22:21:13 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO laptop) (68.118.156.15) by mxip06.cluster1.charter.net with SMTP; 14 Sep 2004 22:21:07 -0400 X-Ironport-AV: i="3.84,155,1091419200"; d="scan'208"; a="262458336:sNHT12754628" Message-ID: <014201c49aca$a8949e80$0f9c7644@mad.wi.charter.com> From: To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040911124657.00baabd0@mail.katiesorchids.com><7FBB02B3-0361-11D9-82D2-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> <5.2.0.9.0.20040912105728.00c38658@mail.katiesorchids.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Extinct diseases Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 21:21:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just have to chime in here, although I am probably a bit late as I am catching up...but polio is far from extinct in the "wider world". It is one of Rotary Club's main philanthropic missions - to get polio vaccine to every child in the world. Many places in Africa, India, South America have polio running wild. That is why it is important for children in the U.S., where it has been pretty much erradicated, to still get vaccinated - immigration from these countries brings the virus into the U.S. (or other Western countries, I imagine) and exposes children in schools, daycares, etc. http://www.rotary.org/foundation/polioplus/index.html gives a little bit more info. ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot Bristol Renaissance Faire, Guilde of St. Lawrence My arms are too short to box with God. ~Johnny Cash lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** MUCH SNIPPAGE > I'm going to agree with that statement even though I titled the thread > "extinct diseases". I read recently that a few cases of polio have shown up > in eastern Africa, much to the surprise of the medical establishment. > > > > >Problem is, every time they think some disease is extinct, they find out > >it isn't. People still get polio, whooping cough, scarlet fever, > >rheumatic fever, and all those other diseases the rest of us think are extinct. > > CarolynKayta Barrows > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 14 22:52:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8F2qHTo008304 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 22:52:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8F2pg4d003808 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Sep 2004 20:51:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8F2pehL019086; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 20:51:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.206]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8F2pbhL019052 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 20:51:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jacquelinejbump@gmail.com) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 76so131856rnl for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 19:51:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.96.16 with SMTP id t16mr199084rnb; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 19:51:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.163.72 with HTTP; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 19:51:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4c5accc804091419514419caa7@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 22:51:37 -0400 From: Kristalori History To: Historical Costume Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Quilling X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ok I'm working on a polonaise (PP 1880's polonaise that I've made before in plaid) and my idea is to trim the lining fabric around the edge of the hem and neck and etc. Does anyone know how to quill fabric or have instructions online? I did it eons ago but cannot for the life of me recall how to do it. B. -- "Pardon me, Lady Tudor Glitz, but telling people things aren't period isn't period." Italian Ladies 2005 Calendar http://www.lulu.com/kristalori _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 14 23:31:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8F3VqvZ008474 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 23:31:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8F3UX4d006716 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Sep 2004 21:30:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8F3UM0M040125; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 21:30:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.neei.com (drake.neei.com [66.92.211.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8F3UK0M040104 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 21:30:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladybug@neei.com) Received: by mail.neei.com (Postfix, from userid 105) id BBF225C589D0; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 23:30:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.neei.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB26E605E4F4 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 23:30:19 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 23:30:19 -0400 (EDT) From: "Carol E. Newby" To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Butterick Corset (#4254) question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi All, Has anyone here made up the Victorian corset (view D) from Butterick's pattern # B4254? I'm helping my local high school with their fall costume drama and we're considering putting the actresses in Victorian corsets, but given that this is for high school theatre and their budget is almost nothing, we're trying to figure out if corsets are a necessary expense. Would this corset work sufficiently well if Rigelene or a poly boning were used? The actresses in question don't need a tremendous amount of shaping from the corsets and they'll only be worn for 2-3 hours at a time, which is why I'm considering alternatives to metal. Any suggestions for substitutes for the hook and post busks? Would a metal bone on each side of the center front and hook-n-eye tape work well enough here? One actress has a very quick costume change where the corset should be removed, so I'd like to keep the front opening without the expense of the busk. Anyone have any creative, theatrical suggestions? Know of any sources that give discounts to schools? It's been a long time since I've done theatrical costuming as opposed to re-enactment so I'm having to try to remember all those short cuts and what not that I've spent years trying to get out of the habit of using. ;) thanks, Carol ~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~ Carol E. Newby Elspeth the Semstress of Dunkeld, OP ladybug@neei.com http://www.neei.com/~ladybug "Act well your part, there all honor lies." ~ William Shakespeare _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 14 23:49:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8F3nqlW008559 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 23:49:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8F3n34d008292 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Sep 2004 21:49:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8F3n00M051641; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 21:49:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from navgw.mccc.edu (navgw.mccc.edu [198.133.170.231]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8F3mw0N051553 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 21:48:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pinner@mccc.edu) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu ([198.133.170.1]) by navgw.mccc.edu (SMSSMTP 4.0.0.59) with SMTP id M2004091423485030006 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 23:48:50 -0400 Received: from Kate ([198.133.170.246]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.11.4) with SMTP id i8F3ml8Q000952 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2004 23:48:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <018601c49ad6$ed56bce0$57a810ac@Kate> From: "Kate Pinner" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Butterick Corset (#4254) question Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 23:48:50 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If she has a quick change, consider a sport separating zipper in place of the hook & eye tape. Sport weight is sturdy enough to hold and will give some (not a lot) of rigidity. Also try to use metal boning where you can, especially around the grommets or lacing holes. Kate > Any suggestions for substitutes for the hook and post busks? Would a metal > bone on each side of the center front and hook-n-eye tape work well enough > here? One actress has a very quick costume change where the corset should > be removed, so I'd like to keep the front opening without the expense of > the busk. > > Anyone have any creative, theatrical suggestions? Know of any sources that > give discounts to schools? It's been a long time since I've done > theatrical costuming as opposed to re-enactment so I'm having to try to > remember all those short cuts and what not that I've spent years trying to > get out of the habit of using. ;) > > thanks, > Carol > > ~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~ > Carol E. Newby Elspeth the Semstress of Dunkeld, OP > ladybug@neei.com http://www.neei.com/~ladybug > > "Act well your part, there all honor lies." > ~ William Shakespeare > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 15 10:29:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8FETTC1009802 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 2004 10:29:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8FESe4d029081 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Sep 2004 08:28:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8FESS0M064662; Wed, 15 Sep 2004 08:28:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail5.mdx.safepages.com (mail5.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8FESP0M064621 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 2004 08:28:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail5.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 50EBD1CBA81; Wed, 15 Sep 2004 14:28:24 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust61.tnt2.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.178.61]) by mail5.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 1FDF41CB95B for ; Wed, 15 Sep 2004 14:28:22 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <006f01c49b30$418b24f0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <018601c49ad6$ed56bce0$57a810ac@Kate> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Butterick Corset (#4254) question Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 09:27:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO One really quick (and cheap) option for a front opening corset is to make a set of interlocking tabs that can act as a sheath for a strong metal bone (or wood busk). To remove the corset, you just pull the bone out! (If you need a diagram to make sense of this, let me know.) For a little added security, you can use the wooden busk option, drill holes top and bottom, and add ties to hold it in place. For boning, I'd suggest 4-6 metal bones per corset (2 at front, 2 at back, and 1 on each side), with cable ties (Home Depot, Lowe's) for stiffening in the rest of the corset. Those 6 bones are plenty to keep a non-tightlacing corset firm, and the cable ties in other key spots will keep the fabric from wrinkling (which is not just a matter of visual appeal; it makes a huge difference in comfort). One of the main advantages of cable ties is that they bend from side to side, which makes fitting easier; you don't have to get the bone channels juuuust right in order to keep the ties from twisting uncomfortably, as you would with metal. In other words, less time spent altering your pattern to each individual. =} -E House Liberty in Our Lifetime - www.freestateproject.org Coming Soon - http://www.seamcheckers.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 15 10:52:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8FEqJR9010552 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 2004 10:52:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8FEpZ4d005083 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Sep 2004 08:51:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8FEpV0M080756; Wed, 15 Sep 2004 08:51:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8FEpI0M080420 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 2004 08:51:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be51.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.81]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 1A6BF47FE69 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 2004 16:51:04 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000901c49b33$75ace900$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 16:51:18 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] update of danish courdress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I have updated the sites with the danish courdress. Working on the skirt wich has 4 widths of taffeta 140 cm wide, this is a lot of fabric to sit with. I have only pinned the skirt to the bodice, but i finished the bodice compleately. Have yeat to finish the skirt and the court train............ http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/estrup2.htm Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 15 11:22:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8FFMfcM010664 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 2004 11:22:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8FFLt4d012667 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Sep 2004 09:21:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8FFLV0M002442; Wed, 15 Sep 2004 09:21:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk ([193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8FFKm0M001578 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 2004 09:20:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i8FFK8a24430.; Wed, 15 Sep 2004 16:20:08 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 15 Sep 2004 16:20:08 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 16:19:49 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Upcoming (to the U.S. side of the pond,anyway)shows of interest Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've seen all these here in the UK. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> brujne@creighton.edu 14/09/2004 18:39:07 >>> >"Regency House Party" starts Nov 3rd. In the tradition of the 1900 >House, Frontier House, and Colonial House, et.al. Young Brit singles >and chaparones spend an English summer at a grand English country >house to see how the dos and don'ts of upper-class matchmaking circa >1820-1830 impact on modern men and women. A decade earlier, surely? THe Regent became king (George IV) in 1820. >"Henry VIII" Masterpiece Theatre, starts Nov 7th. >Also this fall is a series the "Lost Prince" set in late 19th-early 20th c >England about one of the little-known descendants of Queen Victoria. This was excellent; about George V's autistic youngest son. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 15 11:48:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8FFmNRK010787 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 2004 11:48:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8FFld4d015537 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Sep 2004 09:47:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8FFlT0M026886; Wed, 15 Sep 2004 09:47:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m23.mx.aol.com (imo-m23.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8FFlQ0M026795 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 2004 09:47:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.7.) id 6.20.33c64289 (17526) for ; Wed, 15 Sep 2004 11:47:17 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <20.33c64289.2e79be05@aol.com> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 11:47:17 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Butterick Corset (#4254) question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/14/2004 11:49:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, pinner@mccc.edu writes: > If she has a quick change, consider a sport separating zipper in place of > the hook &eye tape. I've seen zippers down the front of never-to-be-seen corsets for really fast changes. But also metal boning with big hooks and eyes will work. A split busk is not that expensive. You can make up a pretty corset. It doesn't take much material, a little lace and some ribbon at the top....look at some of the later Victorian corsets in black and yellow or pale blue. Or a white on white jacquard or damask. Check out table cloths. Or even a white on white calico. Or fins an embroidered ribbon to use as boning casing on the outside. Can be gorgeous! Maybe the girl or her parents will spring for the busk if she gets to keep the beautiful corset. Also, I'd try to use metal boning, but if it's not available you can, for more support, put two pieces of Rigelene in each vent. [Zig zag right through the 2 pieces of Rigelene to make them one before inserting them. Melt the ends a little]. Y'know, check out the local hardware store for boning material. Any metal stripping or cable you cut can be tipped with adhesive tape. I've heard of people using that stuff you dip tool handles in to tip bones, but I haven't done it.....and I know the stuff melts with heat so keep the iron away from it. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 15 11:54:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8FFsaCQ010846 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 2004 11:54:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8FFrh4d016361 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Sep 2004 09:53:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8FFrV0M032053; Wed, 15 Sep 2004 09:53:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (chori.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8FFrO0M031935 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 2004 09:53:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ldownward@chori.org) X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Sophos http://raeinternet.com/mpp Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP-TLS id 1403899 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Sep 2004 08:53:17 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.0.0.040405 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 08:53:16 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Butterick Corset (#4254) question From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO HI, Carol, There have been some good suggestions for the corset. My questions is this: do you need the corset visible in a scene or just for shaping? If you don't need to see the corset, why not skip the corset and put the boning into the dress instead? That way you can use good metal boning and skip the expense and time of the corset. You'd need bones in the dress to keep it smooth whether you used a corset or not, so skip the corset. However, don't skimp on bones. Perhaps you can use some of the less expensive bone substitutes, although I've never been happy with Rigelene when I've used it, but for the main bones, use the good metal stuff. I think the least expensive place to find boning is Farthingales in Canada. They're fast and very reliable. When you look at their site, remember they are quoting in Canadian dollars. http://www.farthingales.on.ca/ Best of luck, LynnD > From: "Carol E. Newby" > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 23:30:19 -0400 (EDT) > To: > Subject: [h-cost] Butterick Corset (#4254) question > > Hi All, > > Has anyone here made up the Victorian corset (view D) from Butterick's > pattern # B4254? I'm helping my local high school with their fall costume > drama and we're considering putting the actresses in Victorian corsets, > but given that this is for high school theatre and their budget is almost > nothing, we're trying to figure out if corsets are a necessary expense. > > Would this corset work sufficiently well if Rigelene or a poly boning were > used? The actresses in question don't need a tremendous amount of shaping > from the corsets and they'll only be worn for 2-3 hours at a time, which > is why I'm considering alternatives to metal. > > Any suggestions for substitutes for the hook and post busks? Would a metal > bone on each side of the center front and hook-n-eye tape work well enough > here? One actress has a very quick costume change where the corset should > be removed, so I'd like to keep the front opening without the expense of > the busk. > > Anyone have any creative, theatrical suggestions? Know of any sources that > give discounts to schools? It's been a long time since I've done > theatrical costuming as opposed to re-enactment so I'm having to try to > remember all those short cuts and what not that I've spent years trying to > get out of the habit of using. ;) > > thanks, > Carol > > ~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~ > Carol E. Newby Elspeth the Semstress of Dunkeld, OP > ladybug@neei.com http://www.neei.com/~ladybug > > "Act well your part, there all honor lies." > ~ William Shakespeare > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 15 12:04:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8FG4hvk010934 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 2004 12:04:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8FG3i4d017587 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Sep 2004 10:03:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8FG3b0M041570; Wed, 15 Sep 2004 10:03:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8FG3Z0M041549 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 2004 10:03:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from sdn-ap-009masprip0435.dialsprint.net ([63.186.145.181]) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1C7cFp-0002KD-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Sep 2004 12:03:34 -0400 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 12:04:20 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] update of danish courdress From: ruthanne baumgartner To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000901c49b33$75ace900$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Gorgeous, Bjarne. I remember you had some uncertainties as to the sleeve lace--clearly, you've found the right answers! --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer on 9/15/04 10:51 AM, Bjarne og Leif Drews at drewscph@post12.tele.dk wrote: > > Hi, > I have updated the sites with the danish courdress. Working on the skirt > wich has 4 widths of taffeta 140 cm wide, this is a lot of fabric to sit > with. I have only pinned the skirt to the bodice, but i finished the bodice > compleately. Have yeat to finish the skirt and the court train............ > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/estrup2.htm > > Bjarne > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 15 12:09:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8FG9bCr010970 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 2004 12:09:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8FG7G4d017966 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Sep 2004 10:07:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8FG7D0M046528; Wed, 15 Sep 2004 10:07:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.mc.surewest.net (smtp2.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.51]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8FG740M046431 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 2004 10:07:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-32444); Wed, 15 Sep 2004 09:07:03 -0700 Received: from unknown (66.205.128.64) by smtp2.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Wed, 15 Sep 2004 09:07:02 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040915090538.00d4f9e0@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 09:07:00 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] update of danish courdress In-Reply-To: <000901c49b33$75ace900$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp2.mc.surewest.net SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=66.205.128.64 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 04:51 PM 9/15/2004 +0200, you wrote: >Hi, >I have updated the sites with the danish courdress. Working on the skirt >wich has 4 widths of taffeta 140 cm wide, this is a lot of fabric to sit >with. I have only pinned the skirt to the bodice, but i finished the bodice >compleately. Have yeat to finish the skirt and the court train............ >http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/estrup2.htm > >Bjarne It's very beautiful. I'd love to see someone dancing in that dress... Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 15 12:40:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8FGe6GZ011063 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 2004 12:40:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8FGdH4d021633 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Sep 2004 10:39:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8FGd90M084647; Wed, 15 Sep 2004 10:39:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8FGcv0M084473 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 2004 10:39:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be51.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.81]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 6195D5EE041 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 2004 18:38:56 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001c01c49b42$8860ab40$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 18:39:11 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] update of danish courtdress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Gorgeous, Bjarne. I remember you had some uncertainties as to the sleeve lace--clearly, you've found the right answers! --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer Hi, Those sleaves was the hardest work to do, because i made the ruffles in machine embroidered organza. First the organza was full of pearls embroidered to it, and i had to remove them. Then all the thread ends after the pearls, because they were sewn on as if they never should have ben removed again. Then all the pleating wich i had to do by sewing down each single pleat so that i could steam press them....sigh. Then again remove all my own stitching down of the pleats and on and on Glad i have come trough it. I have pleanty of fabric left, so perhaps i will make a new bodice during this winter, because the fabric is not stretched smoothly and tight as it should be on the boned foundation. Next time i wont make different seams as the foundation but use the same cut to both layers. I am very self crittic, but the best way to do such a thing would be to make a compleate model, and then make a new one again. I think it always ends up with some things you wished you had made better.............. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 15 15:06:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8FJ6HlH012733 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 2004 15:06:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8FJ564d007897 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Sep 2004 13:05:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8FJ3s0M099670; Wed, 15 Sep 2004 13:03:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from incoming.SIGENETICS.com ([209.172.110.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8FJ3b0M099436 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 2004 13:03:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sbuchler@silicongenetics.com) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Butterick Corset (#4254) question Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 12:03:28 -0700 Message-ID: <0D3431E0FD777844A4ED9507E4D698D90D276E@incoming.sigenetics.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 758 Thread-Index: AcSa1NTQGVih9tKmSGqokUyyeKmnhQAf2iuw From: "Sunny Buchler" To: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i8FJ3b0M099436 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Any suggestions for substitutes for the hook and post busks? > Would a metal bone on each side of the center front and hook-n-eye tape > work well enough here? One actress has a very quick costume change where the > corset should be removed, so I'd like to keep the front opening without the > expense of the busk. If you want the change to be fast and the corset is visible (meaning the zipper option is out), my advice is to use the busk. They are _much_ faster then hook-and-eye to get out of. Also, the hooks in the hook-and-eye tape tend to bend out of shape if put under the kind of pressure corseting tends to use, and if you're not creating that kinda pressure, the corset doesn't tend to be doing the job of bust-support correctly. Another fast-change option: Don't bother with the front opening, and have someone cut her out of the back-lacing during the fast change (this would require a little more time then the busk option, so it would depend on how fast the change really is...) > Would this corset work sufficiently well if Rigelene or a > poly boning were used? I personally prefer metal boning, but if it's a price issue you can use ridgeline -- I've had trouble with ridgeline buckling if I didn't get the length absolutely correct. Another low-price option would be to replace the mettle boning with a couple rows of cording. I don't know the pattern, so I don't know if this would be an easy adjustment to make. In either case (cording or rig inline) You'll still want metal around the lacing holes. Depending on the era you're doing, and the busty-ness of your actresses many styles can be faked without a corset -- I'd classify both Regency and the Titanic eras in this category. -sunny _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 15 17:11:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8FLBYsB017813 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 2004 17:11:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8FLAb4d022011 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Sep 2004 15:10:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8FLAT0M003030; Wed, 15 Sep 2004 15:10:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8FLA20M002682 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 2004 15:10:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-164.cvip.net [129.8.205.164]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D3D15FC18 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 2004 14:09:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040914193932.00b19250@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 19:50:15 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: extinct diseases In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:57 AM 9/13/2004 -0400, you wrote: >Unfortunately, it does not seem to >be genetic as my kids have all had the chicken pox (3 of them in one month) >and were as sick as kids usually are with it. HI Donna, Be glad you could be with them during chicken pox. I never had the disease, so by doctors orders I have to avoid my children when they have it if at all possible. I was banned from my oldest son for a few weeks while he went through it. And it is still genetically viable in your children, but as a recessive gene. Your grandchildren or further may show up with the immunity. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 15 17:32:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8FLWwsL017932 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 2004 17:32:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8FLVr4d024281 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Sep 2004 15:31:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8FLVn0M019497; Wed, 15 Sep 2004 15:31:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8FLVh0M019425 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 2004 15:31:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-164.cvip.net [129.8.205.164]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA2F95FAEF for ; Wed, 15 Sep 2004 14:31:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040915141048.024a1e08@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 14:31:35 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sort of OT: Dress Diaries? In-Reply-To: <149.3374334f.2e787200@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:10 PM 9/14/2004 -0400, you wrote: >First, is it easier to run a dress diary on a webpage or set up a Live >Journal for it? If you get a paid LJ account, you can make the LJ entries look just like a part of your own web site. I am finding that personally, it is easier for me to write the DD in LJ, and make the entry into a Memory. I plan on later going back over my LJ dressdiary entries and posting them to my website, when I have my costume info put in. >I know a web page can sit out there indefinitely once completed, do >Live Journals need a certain amount of activity on them? In other words, >would I have to keep running the LJ if I wanted the diary to remain available? I don't think LJs have to have activity to keep them active. I have a friend who hasn't posted anything in her LJ in a couple of years, and it is still active. Also, I was recently informed that there is software out there that can take your LJ posts and save them onto your hard drive, providing a backup service, and apparantly it can search your LJ entries. Haven't used it yet... http://fawx.com/ljArchive/ >Second, do I need to talk the aunt with the digital camera into photographing >everything, or can I get away with taking regular pictures and getting a CD >from the developer? (Yes, I know that would take a little longer -- but >since >I prefer handcoding HTML to using an Internet Explorer-only web page builder, >I won't be setting any speed records for updates anyway :) .) You can do both, or either. I do both. I have a cheap digital to take ongoing photos of my work in progress, and that is hooked into an AC cord so I don't use up lots of batteries. However, getting the time to upload them onto a dress diary, as I always have to fiddle with the pics, is something of a pain. I then use my nice 35mm camera for portfolio and final photos, with backdrop and now filtered bright lights and all (before I took them outside on overcast days, which are non existant in our summers), and that goes onto CD during processing. Sometime after my next faire I need to take more "studio" style photos of old garb before I sell those off. For info on taking good photos for a portfolio (not everyday dressdiaries), see Tara Maginnis's info at Costumer's Manifesto. I was able to catch her Costume College class on this. Great info for setting up a basic photo studio. http://costumes.org/advice/1pages/photo4portfolioCC04B.htm hth, Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 16 02:08:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8G68P3f022446 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 2004 02:08:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8G67T4d005609 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Sep 2004 00:07:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8G67D0M020352; Thu, 16 Sep 2004 00:07:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.fuse.net (mail-out1.fuse.net [216.68.8.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8G6770M020251 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 2004 00:07:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jemarshall@fuse.net) Received: from gx4.fuse.net ([66.161.251.3]) by smtp1.fuse.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.04 201-2131-111-106-20040729) with ESMTP id <20040916060701.UVXI9752.smtp1.fuse.net@gx4.fuse.net> for ; Thu, 16 Sep 2004 02:07:01 -0400 Received: from netzero.fuse.net ([66.161.251.3]) by gx4.fuse.net (InterMail vG.1.00.00.00 201-2136-104-20040331) with ESMTP id <20040916060700.PAGH746.gx4.fuse.net@netzero.fuse.net> for ; Thu, 16 Sep 2004 02:07:00 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20040916015746.00b345c0@pop.fuse.net> X-Sender: jemarshall@pop.fuse.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 01:58:55 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "J.E. Marshall" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Kubu cloth X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have an opportunity to get some kubu cloth from a friend, does any one know anything about this type of cloth? Jennifer If you are squeamish, don't prod the beach rubble. Sappho _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 16 08:24:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8GCOFpd021053 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 2004 08:24:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8GCNV4d000329 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Sep 2004 06:23:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8GCNN0M098682; Thu, 16 Sep 2004 06:23:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8GCNJ0M098600 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 2004 06:23:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f23.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.35]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id AB87E2628C7 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 2004 14:23:06 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <002101c49be7$f570d660$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001101c49901$f4cdedd0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <4144FE4E.9030807@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] raised/stumpwork flowers. Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 14:23:19 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Saragrace. Sorry of the delay of this. You are right, but i think not i could use it in this tecknique because the flower leaves are made with buttonhole stitches, and my chenille is two thick for this. It would be much two clumsy, if you know what i mean. But i have ordered some stumpwork books so i think i shall get some ideas. By the way i got my Chenille Silk from Aurora today. I was very pleased for this, because their Chenille is doubble as thin as the ones i have from Au vers A Soie. Now i can make some of that bobbin lace shown in Costume in Detail, where the gimp is a Chenille thread, and also i can make much finer embroidery with this thinner chenille............. Gosh i got 3 large skeins, so i am going to colour it in many beautifull shades............... When i have finished the courtdress though :-( How are you getting along with your Elizabeth Dress? Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wicked Frau" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 3:56 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] raised/stumpwork flowers. > I have just the answer for you I think! Have you read the series on > Elizabethan embroidery by Sheila Marshall? You can see them here. She > shows how to do these flowers in one of these books. If you'd like me > to check which one, I can...I have them. > > ttp://www.jdr-be.com/elizabethaseriesgallery.htm > > This is not necessarily the place to buy them from, but just a place to > see them. > > Sg > > > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > >Hi, > >Talking about other and better things than extinct deseases. > >While working on the courtdress i have only had my mind thinking about the > >next projekt i am starting soon. The original dress is in the huge costume > >book from Kyoto, not Revolution, but the other one. It is a large pannier > >dres with pleated ruches and small bouques of flowers spread along the > >ruches. Originally made with chenille threads. > >I have ordered a large skein of undyed silk chenille, and i want to dye it > >in some colours that will suit the pale yellow silk taffeta. Then i have > >ordered some embroidery books about stumpwork so that i can get some ideas > >to make 3-dimensional flowers of the chenille. > >I was thinking about making the flowerleaves by outlining with millinery > >wire and then weave the chenille back and forth, but for the flowers i am > >not sure! > >Long live Amazon.com next week i will have the books! > > > > > >Bjarne > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 16 08:36:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8GCap1K021144 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 2004 08:36:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8GCaD4d002847 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Sep 2004 06:36:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8GCaA0M004797; Thu, 16 Sep 2004 06:36:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8GCa80M004782 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 2004 06:36:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m122.in-tch.com [216.166.191.122]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i8GCZGt17500 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 2004 06:35:16 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <414989BB.4010000@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 06:40:27 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] update of danish courdress References: <000901c49b33$75ace900$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <000901c49b33$75ace900$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Holy Cow! That *is* a lot of skirt fabric! But so elegant to wear! The lace and the sleeve puffs are very interesting, too! What a lucky lady someone's going to be! --sue, typing this with the assistance of her kitty, Mack Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi, > I have updated the sites with the danish courdress. Working on the skirt > wich has 4 widths of taffeta 140 cm wide, this is a lot of fabric to sit > with. I have only pinned the skirt to the bodice, but i finished the bodice > compleately. Have yeat to finish the skirt and the court train............ > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/estrup2.htm > > Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 16 13:58:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8GHwQJG025351 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 2004 13:58:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8GHuv4d010332 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Sep 2004 11:56:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8GHugYG029955; Thu, 16 Sep 2004 11:56:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8GHuaYG029871 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 2004 11:56:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.100]) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1C80Ul-0005Bj-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Sep 2004 10:56:35 -0700 Message-ID: <4149D3D4.3040607@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 10:56:36 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] update of danish courdress-Question... References: <000901c49b33$75ace900$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <000901c49b33$75ace900$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne, what happens when someone walks forward or dances in a dress with the farthingale only to their knees? Does it break at that point, or is the fabric stiff enough that you don't see it? Sg (who is applying anything she can learn to her current project) Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >Hi, >I have updated the sites with the danish courdress. Working on the skirt >wich has 4 widths of taffeta 140 cm wide, this is a lot of fabric to sit >with. I have only pinned the skirt to the bodice, but i finished the bodice >compleately. Have yeat to finish the skirt and the court train............ >http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/estrup2.htm > >Bjarne > > > > >Leif og Bjarne Drews >www.my-drewscostumes.dk > >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 16 14:34:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8GIYu2J025552 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 2004 14:34:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8GIXu4d016644 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Sep 2004 12:33:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8GIXqYG059543; Thu, 16 Sep 2004 12:33:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8GIXjYG059247 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 2004 12:33:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f23.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.35]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 8DFFC5EE01D for ; Thu, 16 Sep 2004 20:33:30 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000a01c49c1b$b9efff60$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 20:33:51 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] farthingale question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne, what happens when someone walks forward or dances in a dress with the farthingale only to their knees? Does it break at that point, or is the fabric stiff enough that you don't see it? Sg (who is applying anything she can learn to her current project) Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: Hi Saragrace, The wheelfarthingales i made for the dansers back in time was used to show very lively renaissance danses in them. But they never broke. Do you mean that the fabric will be "broken" or bend? This it will, but not that much. If a lady in a wheelfarthingale is going into something in the front, a table for instance, the wheel will bend into the body and raise in the back. And the skirt will be lifted up behind. Is that what you ment with your question? Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 16 21:05:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8H15RTt027622 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 2004 21:05:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8H14g4d002045 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Sep 2004 19:04:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8H14WYG024497; Thu, 16 Sep 2004 19:04:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8H14TYG024465 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 2004 19:04:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.100]) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1C87Aq-00008K-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Sep 2004 18:04:28 -0700 Message-ID: <414A381E.7020103@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 18:04:30 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] farthingale question References: <000a01c49c1b$b9efff60$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <000a01c49c1b$b9efff60$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO No, what I meant is that if the ''skirt'' of the farthingale only comes down to the knee, does the fabric of the gown bend so that you can tell there is something stiffer underneath? Does that make more sense? Thanks Sg Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >o >the body and raise in the back. And the skirt will be lifted up behind. >Is that what you ment with your question? > >Bjarne > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 16 23:04:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8H34SPx028270 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 2004 23:04:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8H33i4d012042 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Sep 2004 21:03:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8H331YG085358; Thu, 16 Sep 2004 21:03:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8H32xYH085339 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 16 Sep 2004 21:03:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i8H37gSN005318 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 2004 23:07:43 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Member/Bookshelf Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 23:13:28 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <20040910015151.97244.qmail@web13524.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040910015151.97244.qmail@web13524.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200409162313.28996.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 09 September 2004 9:51 pm, Ms Cynthia Schrage wrote: > Hello all, > > I'm new to this group, and have been lurking for about > a week. It's been very interesting (i.e., pads) and > inspiring (the embroidered silk wedding dress). > > I am "clothing" a group of women for a re-enactment > set in America in 1845, and another bunch for another > re-enactment set in 1853. > > My question is: what are the books you all would > recommend most? Both books of a general nature and > more period specific ones... If you can find it, try: Betty J. Mills. Calico Chronicle. : Texas Women and their Fashions 1830-1910. Texas Tech Press 1985. ISBN 0-89672-128-0 (paperback) ISBN 0-89672-129-9 (clothbound) As the subtitle implies, this book expressly deals with women's costume in Texas, and discusses evidence collected about Texans in Texas, but I'd bet that very similar costumes were worn all along the American frontier at that time. (On the other hand, if you're costuming women for a reenactment set in one of the East Coast cities in that time frame, this book probably won't help you that much.) :-) I'm not sure if the book is out of print now or not. I got my copy from an Iowa-based business that sells historic costuming patterns, books and supplies called Amazon Vinegar & Pickling Works Dry Goods, Ltd. There's a sticker on my copy (it just fell off, actually) that gives the address and number as : 2218 E. 11th St., Davenport, IA 52803-3760 (319) 322-6800 They have a web site, but the last time I visited it they weren't set up to take orders through the site. Good luck! -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 17 03:30:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8H7Ucfw025412 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 03:30:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8H7SS4d028955 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Sep 2004 01:28:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8H7SHYG016624; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 01:28:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8H7SBYG016501 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 01:28:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be76.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.118]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 544AE5EE04E for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 09:27:58 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000601c49c87$e8491c40$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000a01c49c1b$b9efff60$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <414A381E.7020103@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] farthingale question Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 09:28:20 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi again, Oh now i understand what you mean. If your outher fabric is stiff, it will not show. It is the same thing with panniers of the 18th century.Not all of them were long, and it wont show if the pannier only is going half way down. Think about the hip panniers, or pocket hoops, they are short, and they wont show. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wicked Frau" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 3:04 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] farthingale question > No, what I meant is that if the ''skirt'' of the farthingale only comes > down to the knee, does the fabric of the gown bend so that you can tell > there is something stiffer underneath? Does that make more sense? > > Thanks > Sg > > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > >o > >the body and raise in the back. And the skirt will be lifted up behind. > >Is that what you ment with your question? > > > >Bjarne > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 17 03:31:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8H7V7vK025478 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 03:31:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8H7UP4d029061 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Sep 2004 01:30:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8H7UOYG017615; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 01:30:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8H7UMYG017592 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 01:30:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be76.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.118]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 6714547FE54 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 09:30:21 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000c01c49c88$3e05f680$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 09:30:41 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] lining a train X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I have a question. I am going to line my courttrain with the same material. Sew and turn! Should i make the linning of the train 3cm. shorter, so that it wont bulk where i attach the train to the waistband? I could invisible stitch the linning under where i pleat to the train? Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 17 07:02:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8HB29v9030368 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 07:02:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8HB0r4d021179 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Sep 2004 05:00:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8HB0gYG015742; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 05:00:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.254.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8HB0dYG015661 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 05:00:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 11:58:50 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Wet weather garb/English Summers (WAS: Court To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A55@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] RE: Wet weather garb/English Summers (WAS: Court thread-index: AcSaK++nD6Uk0qDGQ3u2PLZqEaRjuQCeP/XA Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.20 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Teddy wrote: > > Margo, you and Wayne come over and visit me one summer and I'll show > > you what it's like over here. > > > > A "lovely summer evening" in England can often mean that > > the rain is nice and warm.... Sue replied: > Yeah? I think you guys keep saying that to scare off the tourists! When > Jane and I were over there 2 years ago, it didn't rain once! Okay, so I saw > a bare handful of raindrops my first day in Dublin, but that was it! > Amazing humidity, though! --sue, from (usually) much drier MT That's the *other* problem with the English climate - what heat we get is usually wet/sticky heat. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 17 07:18:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8HBICl6030842 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 07:18:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8HBHR4d022614 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Sep 2004 05:17:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8HBHLYG023952; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 05:17:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from alpha2.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (alpha2.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.0.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8HBH8YG023848 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 05:17:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 12:17:02 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Regional re-enactemtn terms (WAS: the word "kit") To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A57@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Regional re-enactemtn terms (WAS: the word "kit") thread-index: AcSa1NqNbPcVMXfcQZedTWTYYFnfmgB0sO2A Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.20 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-DCC-sonic.net-Metrics: et.indra.com 1114; bulk Body=1 Fuz1=98 Fuz2=1001 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Re: [h-cost] Re: the word "kit" > I suspect "grockle" is regional - I came across it as a term for > tourists when my sister lived on the Isle of Wight, and I've only heard > it from people living in the south of England - and on Jersey! You could be right, Jean, the person I hear use it most often is from South of London. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 17 07:23:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8HBNcLX030970 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 07:23:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8HBMw4d023031 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Sep 2004 05:22:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8HBMvYG027175; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 05:22:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.254.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8HBMsYG027147 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 05:22:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 12:22:45 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: RE: [h-cost] update of danish courdress To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A58@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] update of danish courdress thread-index: AcSbTpUOr661vwn2TJO7K3/V+5sJdQBWfk3A Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.20 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I have updated the sites with the danish courdress. Oooh! Pretty! Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 17 09:18:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8HDIXF4001352 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 09:18:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8HDHk4d029813 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Sep 2004 07:17:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8HDHdYG082305; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 07:17:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8HDHaYG082195 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 07:17:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-8.13) id A3E6407500AA; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 09:17:26 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.109 ([209.131.81.109] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 17 Sep 04 13:17:19 -0000 Message-ID: <000f01c49cb9$a38fa740$6d5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001101c49901$f4cdedd0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711><4144FE4E.9030807@earthlink.net> <002101c49be7$f570d660$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] raised/stumpwork flowers. Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 09:24:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am following these notes with great anticipation for this up-coming project. Which page in the Kyoto book are you going to work from? 71? Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 8:23 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] raised/stumpwork flowers. > Hi Saragrace. > Sorry of the delay of this. > You are right, but i think not i could use it in this tecknique because the > flower leaves are made with buttonhole stitches, and my chenille is two > thick for this. It would be much two clumsy, if you know what i mean. > But i have ordered some stumpwork books so i think i shall get some ideas. > By the way i got my Chenille Silk from Aurora today. > I was very pleased for this, because their Chenille is doubble as thin as > the ones i have from Au vers A Soie. > Now i can make some of that bobbin lace shown in Costume in Detail, where > the gimp is a Chenille thread, and also i can make much finer embroidery > with this thinner chenille............. > Gosh i got 3 large skeins, so i am going to colour it in many beautifull > shades............... > When i have finished the courtdress though :-( > How are you getting along with your Elizabeth Dress? > > Bjarne > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Wicked Frau" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 3:56 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] raised/stumpwork flowers. > > > > I have just the answer for you I think! Have you read the series on > > Elizabethan embroidery by Sheila Marshall? You can see them here. She > > shows how to do these flowers in one of these books. If you'd like me > > to check which one, I can...I have them. > > > > ttp://www.jdr-be.com/elizabethaseriesgallery.htm > > > > This is not necessarily the place to buy them from, but just a place to > > see them. > > > > Sg > > > > > > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > > > >Hi, > > >Talking about other and better things than extinct deseases. > > >While working on the courtdress i have only had my mind thinking about > the > > >next projekt i am starting soon. The original dress is in the huge > costume > > >book from Kyoto, not Revolution, but the other one. It is a large pannier > > >dres with pleated ruches and small bouques of flowers spread along the > > >ruches. Originally made with chenille threads. > > >I have ordered a large skein of undyed silk chenille, and i want to dye > it > > >in some colours that will suit the pale yellow silk taffeta. Then i have > > >ordered some embroidery books about stumpwork so that i can get some > ideas > > >to make 3-dimensional flowers of the chenille. > > >I was thinking about making the flowerleaves by outlining with millinery > > >wire and then weave the chenille back and forth, but for the flowers i am > > >not sure! > > >Long live Amazon.com next week i will have the books! > > > > > > > > >Bjarne > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > >h-costume mailing list > > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 17 09:24:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8HDOBq7001533 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 09:24:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8HDNX4d000423 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Sep 2004 07:23:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8HDNWYG085652; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 07:23:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8HDNTYG085576 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 07:23:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-8.13) id A52728C80076; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 09:22:47 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.109 ([209.131.81.109] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 17 Sep 04 13:22:46 -0000 Message-ID: <002101c49cba$66640ea0$6d5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040910015151.97244.qmail@web13524.mail.yahoo.com> <200409162313.28996.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Member/Bookshelf Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 09:29:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And I have an extra one. I would be glad to deal. Contact me off list, please. Kathleen rmitchell@washjeff.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine Olanich Raymond" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 11:13 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Member/Bookshelf > On Thursday 09 September 2004 9:51 pm, Ms Cynthia Schrage wrote: > > Hello all, > > > > I'm new to this group, and have been lurking for about > > a week. It's been very interesting (i.e., pads) and > > inspiring (the embroidered silk wedding dress). > > > > I am "clothing" a group of women for a re-enactment > > set in America in 1845, and another bunch for another > > re-enactment set in 1853. > > > > My question is: what are the books you all would > > recommend most? Both books of a general nature and > > more period specific ones... > > If you can find it, try: > > Betty J. Mills. Calico Chronicle. : Texas Women and their Fashions 1830-1910. > Texas Tech Press 1985. ISBN 0-89672-128-0 (paperback) > ISBN 0-89672-129-9 (clothbound) > > As the subtitle implies, this book expressly deals with women's costume in > Texas, and discusses evidence collected about Texans in Texas, but I'd bet > that very similar costumes were worn all along the American frontier at that > time. (On the other hand, if you're costuming women for a reenactment set in > one of the East Coast cities in that time frame, this book probably won't > help you that much.) :-) > > I'm not sure if the book is out of print now or not. I got my copy from an > Iowa-based business that sells historic costuming patterns, books and > supplies called Amazon Vinegar & Pickling Works Dry Goods, Ltd. There's a > sticker on my copy (it just fell off, actually) that gives the address and > number as : > > 2218 E. 11th St., Davenport, IA 52803-3760 > (319) 322-6800 > > They have a web site, but the last time I visited it they weren't set up to > take orders through the site. > > Good luck! > > -- > Cathy Raymond > > "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue > that counts."--Winston Churchill > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 17 10:13:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8HEDV7f003311 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 10:13:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8HECm4d005010 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Sep 2004 08:12:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8HECQYG016505; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 08:12:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8HECGYG016287 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 08:12:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be76.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.118]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 2F82B5EE048 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 16:12:02 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000701c49cc0$37d3d560$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001101c49901$f4cdedd0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711><4144FE4E.9030807@earthlink.net><002101c49be7$f570d660$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <000f01c49cb9$a38fa740$6d5183d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] raised/stumpwork flowers. Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 16:11:19 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Kathleen, It is the Kyoto book called Fashion, the thick one and the dress is on page 69. It also has ruched net on it, and the bouquets is made on top of that. I am thinking about making the net of cotton tulle. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 3:24 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] raised/stumpwork flowers. > I am following these notes with great anticipation for this up-coming > project. Which page in the Kyoto book are you going to work from? 71? > Kathleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 17 12:40:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8HGe0lJ006850 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 12:40:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8HGd74d022146 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Sep 2004 10:39:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8HGd1YG030747; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 10:39:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8HGcpYG030521 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 10:38:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lauren.walker@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (h0006255ec5ea.ne.client2.attbi.com[66.31.43.36]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <2004091716384401600mm35te>; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 16:38:44 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 12:37:39 -0400 From: Lauren Walker To: h-costume Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Storage and organization X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The time has come, the walrus said... I sort of got swept up in costume-making and more weaving projects while unemployed. Now I'm working again and my whole house is hidden under a layer of fabric and patterns, threads and yarns. I am trying to do the kind of cleaning-up that results in organizing one's things for ongoing use, and -- beyond the ubiquitous rubbermaid lidded plastic tubs -- am looking for advice on organizing one's materials. What do you all do to keep the fabrics and notions and patterns and similar things under control? Thanks for any tips! Lauren _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 17 13:19:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8HHJIUn007401 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 13:19:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8HHDC4d025771 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Sep 2004 11:13:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8HHD0YG059790; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 11:13:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from priv-edtnes57.telusplanet.net (outbound01.telus.net [199.185.220.220]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8HHCvYG059668 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 11:12:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from edieann@telus.net) Received: from moms ([154.5.142.106]) by priv-edtnes57.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.02 201-2131-111-104-20040324) with SMTP id <20040917171232.WLMM11256.priv-edtnes57.telusplanet.net@moms> for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 11:12:32 -0600 Message-ID: <000501c49cda$c35d6d20$6a8e059a@bc.hsia.telus.net> From: "Edith Reardon" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Storage and organization Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 10:21:26 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lauren Walker" To: "h-costume" Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 9:37 AM Subject: [h-cost] Storage and organization The time has come, the walrus said... I sort of got swept up in costume-making and more weaving projects while unemployed. Now I'm working again and my whole house is hidden under a layer of fabric and patterns, threads and yarns. I am trying to do the kind of cleaning-up that results in organizing one's things for ongoing use, and -- beyond the ubiquitous rubbermaid lidded plastic tub {snipped} Thanks for any tips! Lauren My husband plans to make me a cubby hole wall with holes 10" x 10" x 30" cubbies. This can even be recessed into the wall so it takes up less room. I just can't find anything by using clear tubs as fast as I would like to. Patterns are still in brown evelopes with the pictures of the pattern cut and pasted to the front or in plastic evelopes that are clear and have a space for a card. Notions I try and keep my trim on round cardboard tubes these are put on 30 " doweling and attached to the wall so they look like towel racks covered in trim. The rest of my notions etc. are in 7 drawer clear storage units I also keep my knitting etc. supplies in these. I have lots of room so I have 5 - 7 drawer units to keep different supplies in. These units are on wheels so you can roll out the one you need to your work space. I find the biggest problem with keeping my work space clean is working on too many projects at once. Put away everything but 2 projects and do not touch anything else till they are completed. Brin Kendall _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 17 13:44:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8HHiAZw007617 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 13:44:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8HHhY4d028881 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Sep 2004 11:43:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8HHhJYG084097; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 11:43:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-118.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8HHhCYG083909 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 11:43:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by mail.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89806425D5 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 13:10:22 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <414B2205.7010107@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 12:42:29 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Storage and organization References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lauren Walker wrote: > beyond the ubiquitous rubbermaid lidded plastic tubs -- am looking for > advice on organizing one's materials. What do you all do to keep the fabrics > and notions and patterns and similar things under control? I have a very small sewing area, so I have to make the best use I can out of every inch, otherwise I have no room to work. I actually use smaller containers than the 'tubs' for notions and such. The shoebox size is easier to squeeze into nooks and crannies, and they are clear so I can see at a glance what is in them. I have one for buttons, one for embroidery floss, ones for specific projects like beading, or one to hold all the trim and accessory bits for a particular outfit I am working on. Most of the boxes are under the cutting table in stacks. Much of my fabric is on bookshelves. I've taken shelves out so I can stand the bolts up on end. Pattern boxes on the top, and the hat collection above that, so I use all the space right up to the ceiling. When we moved in here my husband re-did the closet, took out the traditional single pole and shelf that it had and we put in a wire unit that has a regular pole on one side and a two-tier setup on the other half, with shelves above. My closets are narrow, but high and this makes much better use of the space. The other two things are harder to define. These days I am ruthless about scraps. I no longer save every little bit. I have one tub under the sewing table and I empty it into the trash periodically if I don't use the scraps there. I'm honest with myself about how useful small pieces are, and I throw them out. (BTW, if anyone needs a care package of scraps, I am happy to send them for the cost of postage.) Finally, I'm working on not generating clutter. I try to buy with projects in mind, not just because the fabric is luscious. (difficult, I know) I try to be realistic about whether I will do anything with the fabric, or trim, or whatnot before I buy it. For example, I love beautiful laces, but almost never use them on anything, so I only buy them when I have a specific need. And I am breaking my habit of buying extra 'just because'. I buy the yardage I need for a project and that's it. I know a costumer needs a good core stash, well, I've reached that point and until I have room for more I am trying to curttail my buying. (I'm satisfied that I have enough, the year my husband was out of work I made several new costumes using only what I had on hand, with minimal notions purchases) Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 17 14:05:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8HI51j0007940 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 14:05:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8HI494d001630 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Sep 2004 12:04:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8HI3wYG001139; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 12:03:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8HI3rYG001082 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 12:03:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nataku@earthlink.net) Received: from lsanca1-ar1-4-35-112-063.lsanca1.elnk.dsl.genuity.net ([4.35.112.63] helo=earthlink.net) by grouse.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1C8N5L-0003pQ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 11:03:51 -0700 Message-ID: <414B2564.CB62A0C6@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 10:56:52 -0700 From: Kristin Stonham X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Storage and organization References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lauren Walker wrote: > The time has come, the walrus said... > I sort of got swept up in costume-making and more weaving projects while > unemployed. Now I'm working again and my whole house is hidden under a layer > of fabric and patterns, threads and yarns. I am trying to do the kind of > cleaning-up that results in organizing one's things for ongoing use, and -- > beyond the ubiquitous rubbermaid lidded plastic tubs -- am looking for > advice on organizing one's materials. What do you all do to keep the fabrics > and notions and patterns and similar things under control? I used the plastic tubs method for a long time (and it was very handy while moving--everything already boxed up and ready to go!) but eventually it became too hard to find particular fabrics. In the new home, by husband and I are lucky enough to have a workroom for computers and my sewing. We purchased floor to ceiling shelving from Ikea and assembled it against one wall, then sorted the fabrics on by type and also made sure all the patterns, yarns, embroidery materials, trims, etc., were grouped and clearly accessible. The closet holds the finished products and there's enough floorspace for the cutting mat to lay on the floor--as long as I manage to keep it clean, that is! --Kristin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 17 14:09:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8HI9iWJ008030 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 14:09:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8HI8r4d002122 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Sep 2004 12:08:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8HI8nYG004824; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 12:08:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.198]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8HI8hYG004731 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 12:08:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jacquelinejbump@gmail.com) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 78so127385rnl for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 11:08:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.14.32 with SMTP id 32mr288917rnn; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 11:08:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.163.72 with HTTP; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 11:08:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4c5accc8040917110815e91342@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 14:08:20 -0400 From: Kristalori History To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Storage and organization In-Reply-To: <414B2205.7010107@reddawn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <414B2205.7010107@reddawn.net> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Please DO NOT store fabric in totes if you can help it. Most people don't realize but the plastic often develops tiny pinholes over time and this can destroy fabric. This is crucial if you store your fabric in a space with concrete floors. If you can't hang your bolts then shelve them in an open space with lots of circulating air. If you MUST box them use something like the Avon boxes or the boxes used for copier paper. I also have a stash sheet made to go in 3 ring binders if anyone wants it. (I have to find it but that's easy) For patterns all my patterns are copied once on the face side of the pattern and then the pattern is put in a dresser that has drawers organized by company and then by number (I have over 1,000 patterns so this was crucial) the copy of the envelope is then put into a sheet protector and into a 3 ring binder that is divided by company and number sequence. On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 12:42:29 -0500, Dawn wrote: > Lauren Walker wrote: > > > beyond the ubiquitous rubbermaid lidded plastic tubs -- am looking for > > advice on organizing one's materials. What do you all do to keep the fabrics > > and notions and patterns and similar things under control? -- "Pardon me, Lady Tudor Glitz, but telling people things aren't period isn't period." Italian Ladies 2005 Calendar http://www.lulu.com/kristalori _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 17 15:01:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8HJ1PYH008642 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 15:01:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8HJ0F4d007952 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Sep 2004 13:00:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8HJ04YG046471; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 13:00:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav16.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.120]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8HJ01YG046308 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 13:00:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 11:59:53 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by bay9-dav16.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 18:59:53 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001101c49901$f4cdedd0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711><4144FE4E.9030807@earthlink.net><002101c49be7$f570d660$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711><000f01c49cb9$a38fa740$6d5183d1@rmitchellras> <000701c49cc0$37d3d560$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] raised/stumpwork flowers. Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 14:59:56 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Sep 2004 18:59:53.0365 (UTC) FILETIME=[83F84C50:01C49CE8] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hhmm... Wow... I can't wait to see it done! Do you think you'll be able to find that fabric? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 10:11 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] raised/stumpwork flowers. > Hi Kathleen, > It is the Kyoto book called Fashion, the thick one and the dress is on page > 69. > It also has ruched net on it, and the bouquets is made on top of that. > I am thinking about making the net of cotton tulle. > > Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 17 15:20:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8HJKslu008813 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 15:20:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8HJJm4d009910 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Sep 2004 13:19:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8HJJdYG061619; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 13:19:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8HJJUYG061449 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 13:19:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-8.13) id A8BB35B2007C; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 15:19:23 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.109 ([209.131.81.109] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 17 Sep 04 19:19:22 -0000 Message-ID: <001c01c49cec$37d46da0$6d5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <414B2205.7010107@reddawn.net> <4c5accc8040917110815e91342@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Storage and organization Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 15:26:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I started out with cardboard boxes in "my first costume life"; replaced them with a variety of plastic containers. Even with dehumidifiers , the cardboard had to get replaced on an ongoing basis. I like stackables for most trim and notions. My fabric is on open shelving (18/24" wide, from Home Depot...PVC.) Once or twice I was able to find plastic milk crates with wheels and these are favorites for assessories and bulk trims. The one problem I have had in the last decade is that the manufacturers change style and size from season to season and if I had not guessed better at the numbers of units I would need, I find that the newer ones are not compatible with the first group. I also have been using clear containers for misc. storage. The one problem here is to find boxes that are more pliable than the usual 'shoe box ' items. Last week I went to enter my shop area and discovered my hot water tank had blown a pressure gauge. Woe! Did thank the gods for plastic storage!!! Amazing how much hot water can get expelled in a few hours gush. The area also has a floor drain or things would have been worse. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kristalori History" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 2:08 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Storage and organization > Please DO NOT store fabric in totes if you can help it. Most people > don't realize but the plastic often develops tiny pinholes over time > and this can destroy fabric. This is crucial if you store your fabric > in a space with concrete floors. If you can't hang your bolts then > shelve them in an open space with lots of circulating air. If you MUST > box them use something like the Avon boxes or the boxes used for > copier paper. I also have a stash sheet made to go in 3 ring binders > if anyone wants it. (I have to find it but that's easy) > For patterns all my patterns are copied once on the face side of the > pattern and then the pattern is put in a dresser that has drawers > organized by company and then by number (I have over 1,000 patterns so > this was crucial) the copy of the envelope is then put into a sheet > protector and into a 3 ring binder that is divided by company and > number sequence. > > > On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 12:42:29 -0500, Dawn wrote: > > Lauren Walker wrote: > > > > > beyond the ubiquitous rubbermaid lidded plastic tubs -- am looking for > > > advice on organizing one's materials. What do you all do to keep the fabrics > > > and notions and patterns and similar things under control? > -- > "Pardon me, Lady Tudor Glitz, but telling people things aren't period isn't > period." > Italian Ladies 2005 Calendar > http://www.lulu.com/kristalori > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 17 15:37:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8HJb2Ns008946 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 15:37:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8HJaA4d011675 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Sep 2004 13:36:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8HJa4YG074567; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 13:36:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.206]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8HJZxYG074455 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 13:35:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jacquelinejbump@gmail.com) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 76so189606rnl for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 12:35:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.171.2 with SMTP id t2mr284415rne; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 12:34:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.163.72 with HTTP; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 12:34:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4c5accc804091712346e94b9be@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 15:34:36 -0400 From: Kristalori History To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Storage and organization In-Reply-To: <001c01c49cec$37d46da0$6d5183d1@rmitchellras> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <414B2205.7010107@reddawn.net> <4c5accc8040917110815e91342@mail.gmail.com> <001c01c49cec$37d46da0$6d5183d1@rmitchellras> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes but if the boxes had or have pinholes are you aware of how much unknown water could have seeped in and rotted the fabric without you knowing it only to have you peek in a box some day down the road to find a mass of rotted soggy fabric? Or that concrete "weeps" and the resulting moisture often gets into the totes from under the space between the lid and the box itself? Also the fabric cannot breathe and gets musty smelling from storage (you can stop this somewhat with cedar blocks) The same is true with metal shelveing that I see a lot of people use. Also a bad idea. If it gets wet at all it begins to rust and rust climbs. Rust on fabric is often death. Wooden shelving if you can go it and cardboard lidded boxes.PVC is also ok and the gases it lets off are minimal. I'd rather wash wet fabric then loose fabric to rot. Cardboard (and if you want to go all out you can get acid free tissue paper to wrap it in) lets the fabric breath but keeps out light that fades our invesment. The other option and the one I use for the most part is a dresser devoted to fabric. The big 6 drawer style if you have room for it. The wood allows breathing space and keeps it dry. On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 15:26:22 -0400, Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > I started out with cardboard boxes in "my first costume life"; replaced them > with a variety of plastic containers. Even with dehumidifiers , the > cardboard had to get replaced on an ongoing basis. I like stackables for > most trim and notions. My fabric is on open shelving (18/24" wide, from > Home Depot...PVC.) Once or twice I was able to find plastic milk crates with > wheels and these are favorites for assessories and bulk trims. The one > problem I have had in the last decade is that the manufacturers change style > and size from season to season and if I had not guessed better at the > numbers of units I would need, I find that the newer ones are not compatible > with the first group. > I also have been using clear containers for misc. storage. The one problem > here is to find boxes that are more pliable than the usual 'shoe box ' > items. > Last week I went to enter my shop area and discovered my hot water tank had > blown a pressure gauge. > Woe! Did thank the gods for plastic storage!!! Amazing how much hot water > can get expelled in a few hours gush. The area also has a floor drain or > things would have been worse. > Kathleen -- "Pardon me, Lady Tudor Glitz, but telling people things aren't period isn't period." Italian Ladies 2005 Calendar http://www.lulu.com/kristalori _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 17 18:10:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8HMAwD1010039 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 18:10:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8HMAA4d029306 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Sep 2004 16:10:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8HM8kYG095887; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 16:08:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8HM8fYG095691 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 16:08:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f60.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.96]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 3358E47FE01 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 2004 00:08:23 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000a01c49d02$da60f820$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001101c49901$f4cdedd0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711><4144FE4E.9030807@earthlink.net><002101c49be7$f570d660$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711><000f01c49cb9$a38fa740$6d5183d1@rmitchellras><000701c49cc0$37d3d560$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] raised/stumpwork flowers. Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 00:08:24 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, No such a fabric would cost a fortune, but Alexia was here in Copenhagen and she chose a pale yellow silk taffeta for the dress. I am making this dress for Alexia from Manhattan, she visited me here this summer. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 8:59 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] raised/stumpwork flowers. > Hhmm... Wow... I can't wait to see it done! Do you think you'll be able to > find that fabric? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 10:11 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] raised/stumpwork flowers. > > > > Hi Kathleen, > > It is the Kyoto book called Fashion, the thick one and the dress is on > page > > 69. > > It also has ruched net on it, and the bouquets is made on top of that. > > I am thinking about making the net of cotton tulle. > > > > Bjarne > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 17 20:13:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8I0DgTR010601 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 20:13:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8I0Cv4d024832 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Sep 2004 18:12:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8I0CnYG079782; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 18:12:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net (cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.226]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8I0ClYG079764 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 18:12:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.100]) by cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1C8SqN-0000qd-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 17 Sep 2004 17:12:47 -0700 Message-ID: <414B7D84.1080209@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 17:12:52 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Storage and organization-patterns and trim References: <414B2205.7010107@reddawn.net> <4c5accc8040917110815e91342@mail.gmail.com> <001c01c49cec$37d46da0$6d5183d1@rmitchellras> <4c5accc804091712346e94b9be@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4c5accc804091712346e94b9be@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I only have a few ideas to add. One: I store my patterns in 1 gallon plastic freezer bags. For commercial patterns I just make sure the envelope is facing out so I can tell what it is; I often do not return pattern pieces to the envelope, but just to the bag. For drafted patterns, I write on the outside of the bag: date, item. The other good one I have I got from my drafting teacher (couldn't stand her, but this was a good idea). For all your trims, recycle fabric bolt cardboards. Wrap your trims around the board, and hang them from pattern hooks (or stand them up on a shelf). You can see all your pretty trims and they stay neatly organized. Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 18 09:50:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8IDoPr2013677 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 2004 09:50:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8IDnP4d017676 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 18 Sep 2004 07:49:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8IDmfYG084236; Sat, 18 Sep 2004 07:48:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8IDmdYG084159 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 2004 07:48:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-8.13) id ACAD6872007E; Sat, 18 Sep 2004 09:48:29 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.108 ([209.131.81.108] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 18 Sep 04 13:48:23 -0000 Message-ID: <001b01c49d87$257fe120$6c5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <414B2205.7010107@reddawn.net><4c5accc8040917110815e91342@mail.gmail.com><001c01c49cec$37d46da0$6d5183d1@rmitchellras> <4c5accc804091712346e94b9be@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Storage and organization Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 09:55:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks for the suggestions. In addition to my construction supplies, I also do general costuming for the public. The 'turn-over' of stored items is constant, so checking storage for dampness is not particularly a once in the while activity. I also have a whole wall of acid free boxes(28x36) that store vintage and antique clothing. These are shelved on a wood framework. I try to review the contents a couple times a year and refold the contents to discourage permanent folds. As this collection gets used frequently for "show and tell" trunk shows, the chore is minimalized. Hanging garments and costumes are provided with muslin garment bags with the usual care toward hangers. Re hangers, I do not like the pvc light weights, mostly because ther are not heavy enough for many of their burdens. The fabric wall does have one or two metal frames, but once again, these are set up on a low wooden platform. The total area uses 3 dehumidifiers that are set continuous May/ October and otherwise, it keeps pretty dry once the heat goes on in the fall. Kathleen--- Original Message ----- From: "Kristalori History" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 3:34 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Storage and organization > Yes but if the boxes had or have pinholes are you aware of how much > unknown water could have seeped in and rotted the fabric without you > knowing it only to have you peek in a box some day down the road to > find a mass of rotted soggy fabric? Or that concrete "weeps" and the > resulting moisture often gets into the totes from under the space > between the lid and the box itself? Also the fabric cannot breathe > and gets musty smelling from storage (you can stop this somewhat with > cedar blocks) The same is true with metal shelveing that I see a lot > of people use. Also a bad idea. If it gets wet at all it begins to > rust and rust climbs. Rust on fabric is often death. Wooden shelving > if you can go it and cardboard lidded boxes.PVC is also ok and the > gases it lets off are minimal. I'd rather wash wet fabric then loose > fabric to rot. Cardboard (and if you want to go all out you can get > acid free tissue paper to wrap it in) lets the fabric breath but keeps > out light that fades our invesment. The other option and the one I use > for the most part is a dresser devoted to fabric. The big 6 drawer > style if you have room for it. The wood allows breathing space and > keeps it dry. > > > On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 15:26:22 -0400, Lloyd Mitchell > wrote: > > I started out with cardboard boxes in "my first costume life"; replaced them > > with a variety of plastic containers. Even with dehumidifiers , the > > cardboard had to get replaced on an ongoing basis. I like stackables for > > most trim and notions. My fabric is on open shelving (18/24" wide, from > > Home Depot...PVC.) Once or twice I was able to find plastic milk crates with > > wheels and these are favorites for assessories and bulk trims. The one > > problem I have had in the last decade is that the manufacturers change style > > and size from season to season and if I had not guessed better at the > > numbers of units I would need, I find that the newer ones are not compatible > > with the first group. > > I also have been using clear containers for misc. storage. The one problem > > here is to find boxes that are more pliable than the usual 'shoe box ' > > items. > > Last week I went to enter my shop area and discovered my hot water tank had > > blown a pressure gauge. > > Woe! Did thank the gods for plastic storage!!! Amazing how much hot water > > can get expelled in a few hours gush. The area also has a floor drain or > > things would have been worse. > > Kathleen > -- > "Pardon me, Lady Tudor Glitz, but telling people things aren't period isn't > period." > Italian Ladies 2005 Calendar > http://www.lulu.com/kristalori > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 18 09:58:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8IDwdUL013750 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 2004 09:58:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8IDw14d018060 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 18 Sep 2004 07:58:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8IDw1YG088775; Sat, 18 Sep 2004 07:58:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8IDvxYG088748 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 2004 07:57:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.193] (p33.3c04.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.193]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i8IDuUW07374 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 2004 07:56:31 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <001b01c49d87$257fe120$6c5183d1@rmitchellras> References: <414B2205.7010107@reddawn.net><4c5accc8040917110815e91342@mail.gmail.com><001c01c49cec$37d46da0$6d5183d1@rmitchellras> <4c5accc804091712346e94b9be@mail.gmail.com> <001b01c49d87$257fe120$6c5183d1@rmitchellras> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <4EB25FB1-097B-11D9-BD08-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Storage and organization Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 08:01:59 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The climate I live in is very dry so I don't have to worry about dampness problems. Are there other issues associated with dryness that affect fabrics negatively? Sylrog On Sep 18, 2004, at 7:55 AM, Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > The fabric wall does have one or two metal frames, but once again, > these are > set up on a low wooden platform. The total area uses 3 dehumidifiers > that > are set continuous May/ October and otherwise, it keeps pretty dry > once the > heat goes on in the fall. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 18 13:18:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8IHInp2015062 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 2004 13:18:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8IHI74d001075 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 18 Sep 2004 11:18:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8IHHoYG090276; Sat, 18 Sep 2004 11:17:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.192]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8IHHkYG090242 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 2004 11:17:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jacquelinejbump@gmail.com) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 78so1096669rnl for ; Sat, 18 Sep 2004 10:17:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.15.66 with SMTP id 66mr350128rno; Sat, 18 Sep 2004 10:17:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.163.72 with HTTP; Sat, 18 Sep 2004 10:17:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4c5accc8040918101768d9c2a9@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 13:17:41 -0400 From: Kristalori History To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Storage and organization In-Reply-To: <4EB25FB1-097B-11D9-BD08-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <414B2205.7010107@reddawn.net> <4c5accc8040917110815e91342@mail.gmail.com> <001c01c49cec$37d46da0$6d5183d1@rmitchellras> <4c5accc804091712346e94b9be@mail.gmail.com> <001b01c49d87$257fe120$6c5183d1@rmitchellras> <4EB25FB1-097B-11D9-BD08-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At worst I've seen fabrics "break" That's why a dehumidifier or humidifier is a good plan depending on climate. 65 at all times is perfect for large amounts of fabric. If we are just talking your occasional bolt and mostly yardages here and there I wouldn't worry. The only time you need to worry is if you are storing a LARGE amount of things. They also make small battery operated humidifiers for closets. On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 08:01:59 -0600, Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > The climate I live in is very dry so I don't have to worry about > dampness problems. Are there other issues associated with dryness that > affect fabrics negatively? > > Sylrog -- "Pardon me, Lady Tudor Glitz, but telling people things aren't period isn't period." Italian Ladies 2005 Calendar http://www.lulu.com/kristalori _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 19 00:47:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8J4lTRv018658 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 00:47:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8J4gn4d012570 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 18 Sep 2004 22:42:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8J4gCYG037502; Sat, 18 Sep 2004 22:42:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net (goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8J4gBYG037489 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 2004 22:42:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from costumrs@radiks.net) Received: from user-12l20kb.cable.mindspring.com ([69.81.2.139] helo=pierre-ynmjysj2.radiks.net) by goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1C8tWc-0000lV-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 18 Sep 2004 21:42:10 -0700 Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.2.20040918232150.024e0498@pop.radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net@pop.radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 23:28:59 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <200409150331.i8F3V90N040548@net.indra.com> References: <200409150331.i8F3V90N040548@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: corset X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Carol, What I did once before I found sources for corset boning - bought a cheap lawn rake with the spring steel tines, pulled out the tines (check first to make sure you can and they're not welded), pounded out the hook with a hammer, then cut to the right length. Not perfect, and somewhat stiffer than actual corset bones, but if you only use them in a few places and use the cable ties for the rest, it should work. A friend also used lawn mower springs (her father repaired lawn mowers) straightened and cut to size for corset bones. At 10:31 PM 9/14/2004, you wrote: >From: "Carol E. Newby" >Subject: [h-cost] Butterick Corset (#4254) question > >Hi All, > >Has anyone here made up the Victorian corset (view D) from Butterick's >pattern # B4254? Would this corset work sufficiently well if Rigelene or a >poly boning were used? The actresses in question don't need a tremendous >amount of shaping from the corsets and they'll only be worn for 2-3 hours >at a time, which >is why I'm considering alternatives to metal. > >Any suggestions for substitutes for the hook and post busks? Would a metal >bone on each side of the center front and hook-n-eye tape work well enough >here? One actress has a very quick costume change where the corset should >be removed, so I'd like to keep the front opening without the expense of >the busk. > >Carol "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed to Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly -- Why They Are Simply Doomed. Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 19 00:58:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8J4wuDQ018702 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 00:58:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8J4vl4d013508 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 18 Sep 2004 22:57:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8J4vXYG044675; Sat, 18 Sep 2004 22:57:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from lakermmtao09.cox.net (lakermmtao09.cox.net [68.230.240.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8J4vVYG044628 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 2004 22:57:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyanne@quik.com) Received: from gary4lna2lrlna ([68.109.6.186]) by lakermmtao09.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.04 201-2131-111-106-20040729) with ESMTP id <20040919045723.DEFS15440.lakermmtao09.cox.net@gary4lna2lrlna> for ; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 00:57:23 -0400 From: "Anne Moeller" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: corset Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 00:55:26 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Thread-Index: AcSeA5QZA2JogmcCTkas/FdDJxn6VgAAQ4dQ In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20040918232150.024e0498@pop.radiks.net> Message-Id: <20040919045723.DEFS15440.lakermmtao09.cox.net@gary4lna2lrlna> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, I used to use hacksaw blades wrapped in surgical tape for my Tudor corsets. Of course, that was 30 years ago Anne :) -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 12:29 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Re: corset Carol, What I did once before I found sources for corset boning - bought a cheap lawn rake with the spring steel tines, pulled out the tines (check first to make sure you can and they're not welded), pounded out the hook with a hammer, then cut to the right length. Not perfect, and somewhat stiffer than actual corset bones, but if you only use them in a few places and use the cable ties for the rest, it should work. A friend also used lawn mower springs (her father repaired lawn mowers) straightened and cut to size for corset bones. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 19 01:09:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8J59R8g018785 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 01:09:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8J58k4d014093 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 18 Sep 2004 23:08:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8J58iYG049672; Sat, 18 Sep 2004 23:08:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8J58fYG049548 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 2004 23:08:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.145.223]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i8J58Bsg012402 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 15:08:27 +1000 Message-ID: <000f01c49e06$98ad40a0$df91d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Upcoming (to the U.S. side of thepond, anyway)shows of interest Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 14:02:55 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 1:19 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Upcoming (to the U.S. side of thepond,anyway)shows of interest > I've seen all these here in the UK. I was amazed by the lag time that these haven't even reached the US yet, here in Aus we've got these about 6 months behind you (or at least Regency house party I don't know when the Lost Prince was shown over there & can't remember exactly when it was shown here) but the US appears to be a year or more behind. > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby > > >>> brujne@creighton.edu 14/09/2004 18:39:07 >>> > >"Regency House Party" starts Nov 3rd. In the tradition of the 1900 > >House, Frontier House, and Colonial House, et.al. Young Brit singles > >and chaparones spend an English summer at a grand English country > >house to see how the dos and don'ts of upper-class matchmaking circa > >1820-1830 impact on modern men and women. > > A decade earlier, surely? THe Regent became king (George IV) in 1820. Yep, it's just finished here in Aus. and I'm pretty certain they said 1815, I taped the series so if its really important to anybody to know email me & I'll check. > >"Henry VIII" Masterpiece Theatre, starts Nov 7th. > > >Also this fall is a series the "Lost Prince" set in late 19th-early > 20th c > >England about one of the little-known descendants of Queen Victoria. > > This was excellent; about George V's autistic youngest son. Yes I absolutely loved this but the video didn't work, now you've reminded me of it I might check if I can buy it. Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole in OR in Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra, Australia ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 19 07:56:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8JBuDe5000972 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 07:56:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8JBtM4d018865 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 19 Sep 2004 05:55:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8JBtAYG039250; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 05:55:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8JBt7YG039193 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 05:55:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-8.13) id A393517A0130; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 07:54:59 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.116 ([209.131.81.116] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 19 Sep 04 11:54:53 -0000 Message-ID: <000901c49e40$74d79ec0$745183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001101c49901$f4cdedd0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711><4144FE4E.9030807@earthlink.net><002101c49be7$f570d660$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711><000f01c49cb9$a38fa740$6d5183d1@rmitchellras> <000701c49cc0$37d3d560$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] raised/stumpwork flowers. Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 08:01:53 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What is the apparent lace work over which the ruched net and flowers are laid?From my viewpoint, it appears to be sort of a venetian sort with a geometric pattern, about 4" wide. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 10:11 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] raised/stumpwork flowers. > Hi Kathleen, > It is the Kyoto book called Fashion, the thick one and the dress is on page > 69. > It also has ruched net on it, and the bouquets is made on top of that. > I am thinking about making the net of cotton tulle. > > Bjarne > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lloyd Mitchell" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 3:24 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] raised/stumpwork flowers. > > > > I am following these notes with great anticipation for this up-coming > > project. Which page in the Kyoto book are you going to work from? 71? > > Kathleen > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 19 10:14:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8JEEYSs002033 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 10:14:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8JEDp4d025124 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 19 Sep 2004 08:13:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8JEDkYG003360; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 08:13:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8JEDiYG003349 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 08:13:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.100]) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1C92Rk-00002X-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 07:13:44 -0700 Message-ID: <414D9420.8020301@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 07:13:52 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: corset References: <200409150331.i8F3V90N040548@net.indra.com> <6.1.2.0.2.20040918232150.024e0498@pop.radiks.net> In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20040918232150.024e0498@pop.radiks.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If cost is the real limitation, I understand that the large tie wraps work well. On the other hand a roll (~29 feet) of 1/2" boning from Greenberg & Hammer is only $7.80 and 50ft of the 1/4"is only $9.10. If weight is the concern, part rigilene part steel would probably work well. When I first started doing corsets, and asked the list the same question back in '98, I got some good advice (I think it was from Margo Anderson): The products made specifically for this purpose are out there and work the best. If tipping the steel boning is the concern, here is a method which should speed it up a bit for you: http://www.saragrace.net/3E_4_QEW_Corset.html Sg > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 19 14:12:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8JICr8D004121 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 14:12:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8JICB4d011567 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 19 Sep 2004 12:12:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8JIBwYG028615; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 12:11:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8JIBkYG028506 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 12:11:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f60.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.96]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 598A947FEA9 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 20:11:45 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000f01c49e74$303aeea0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001101c49901$f4cdedd0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711><4144FE4E.9030807@earthlink.net><002101c49be7$f570d660$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711><000f01c49cb9$a38fa740$6d5183d1@rmitchellras><000701c49cc0$37d3d560$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <000901c49e40$74d79ec0$745183d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] raised/stumpwork flowers. Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 20:12:13 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, My same guess. But it is hard to tell because the picture is so small. I wished i could se the embroidery closer. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 2:01 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] raised/stumpwork flowers. > What is the apparent lace work over which the ruched net and flowers are > laid?From my viewpoint, it appears to be sort of a venetian sort with a > geometric pattern, about 4" wide. > > Kathleen > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 10:11 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] raised/stumpwork flowers. > > > > Hi Kathleen, > > It is the Kyoto book called Fashion, the thick one and the dress is on > page > > 69. > > It also has ruched net on it, and the bouquets is made on top of that. > > I am thinking about making the net of cotton tulle. > > > > Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 19 20:40:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8K0et7b009030 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 20:40:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8K0e74d006240 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 19 Sep 2004 18:40:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8K0dvYG030063; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 18:39:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8K0drYG030014 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 18:39:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E986347F2 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 17:39:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040919165837.02500d18@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 17:01:23 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Storage and organization In-Reply-To: <414B2564.CB62A0C6@earthlink.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:56 AM 9/17/2004 -0700, you wrote: >there's enough floorspace for the cutting mat to lay >on the floor--as long as I manage to keep it clean, that is! I love my folding cutting table. When not in use, it's about 8" wide so it is easily out of the way against my cube bookcase. When I need to cut, it opens to many feet wide, big enough to cut large skirts in full on it. I can also use it with just one leaf open, which is most of the time. Getting older and fatter, my back wasn't able to handle the stress of cutting on the floor anymore. So I got this at Joanne's with a coupon, and it is well worth even the original price. fwiw, Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 19 20:41:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8K0fdr5009041 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 20:41:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8K0et4d006307 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 19 Sep 2004 18:40:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8K0erYG030564; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 18:40:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8K0drYG030020 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 18:39:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id E57CB34848 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 17:39:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040919170737.024e8a30@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 17:39:25 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Storage and organization In-Reply-To: <000501c49cda$c35d6d20$6a8e059a@bc.hsia.telus.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:21 AM 9/17/2004 -0700, you wrote: >Thanks for any tips! >Lauren Hi Lauren, I would suggest making the whole room/area you have to work into one big organized area. I got my ideas from the book _Dream Sewing Spaces_ by Lynette R. Black. This book works great even for those who only have a closet or a small space in a larger room to sew in. I used to have to sew wherever I could make room, and that meant my stuff was everywhere and completely unorganized. I had no idea what I had on hand and what I needed to buy. Thankfully, I now have a sewing room all my own. I have a skinny but long sewing room. On one long side I have bookshelves on the wall above the computer station for my costume books, buttons in jar racks, nicknacks, and my card files of fabrics (which need updating). My small patterns are in boxes at the top, organized by type. My large and my hand drafted patterns are in a large box at my feet. They are all waiting for better organization this winter. Next to my computer station I have a cubicle bookshelf that holds fabrics for upcoming projects (seriously needs clearing out and reorganizing.) My TV sits on top, along with a basket holding old yarn projects. In front of that bookshelf sits my cutting table out of the way, yet blocking the way so my cats don't sit on the fabric in these shelves. The other long side has inexpensive kitchen cabinets, including a pantry that holds a chunk of my fabric stash. The cabinets are organized depending on usage. The upper cabinets hold lots of plastic shoe boxes for my trims, organized by type and color; embroidery section; paint section; polymer clay boxes; etc. The lower cabinets have big plastic boxes to hold laces, rolls of boning, rolls of cotton batting, and anything else oversized. The drawers hold my tools and special stuff. I have marked on the doors with computer labels what is in each section to help find things faster. The cabinets are topped with a cheap counter, with lights under the upper cabinets to light my work there. A calender is on the wall above, and I have an Ott-light at the edge that can also light this area, or light the sewing area next to it. Behind the light is a multi-drawer cabinet (like guys use for screws and nails and stuff in their workshop) I got from Lowes that holds most of my small notions and tools. Those are also labeled. The sewing table is attached between the main cabinet area, and a four drawer cabinet, just under the window. It is a counter I got from Lowes, and dropped to a comfortable sewing height. I have room for the sewing machine and a future serger. Above the four drawer cabinet which holds my pressing gear and embroidery machine with stabilizers, is an open cabinet that has baskets. Those baskets hold current projects. I have a plastic portable drawer thing I got at Office Max that holds more tools that I can shuttle between here and the living room (need to revamp that too). It holds my iron when not in use otherwise. The side next to the four drawer holds my cutting mats, long rulers and other long tools. The closet holds the bolts of fabrics along one wall, with boxes (both plastic and cardboard) of fabric. The plastic boxes will be replaced this winter, but it held my older stuff that I didn't care about. My closet also holds my finished costumes, but I may move those to the guest room. I also have my dying pots that will get moved to the garage once that area is cleared and set up for dying. The door to the closet holds a rack on one side, and an unused ironing board holder on the other side, which just holds a bag for the scraps. The other tips I can suggest is to work on a couple of projects at a time, and to make time to clean up after yourself after each project is done (or more often with longer projects). Since my things are basically organized with labels, I try to put things away as I can, but my cabinet counter seems to be a current dumping ground, which is fine until I want to photograph something or need to space to spread things out. Keeping organized is a daily fight with myself, which is odd since I used to be quite organized when I am at an outside job. I am also getting my fabric & trim stashes organized using a card file system, with snips of appropriate fabric. This has really helped me out as I no longer buy something only to realize I already have something similar in my stash. My goal for this winter is to have everything completely organized, from my books and patterns into a computer system, to my untouched laces. hth, Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 19 23:41:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8K3f4vq010113 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 23:41:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8K3eK4d018683 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 19 Sep 2004 21:40:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8K3e8YG024025; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 21:40:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8K3e4YG023872 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 21:40:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.145.19]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i8K3dMi2000442 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 13:39:51 +1000 Message-ID: <000601c49ec3$610d7620$1391d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A55@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Wet weather garb/English Summers (WAS: Court Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 11:31:01 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > When > > Jane and I were over there 2 years ago, it didn't rain once! Okay, so > I saw > > a bare handful of raindrops my first day in Dublin, but that was it! > > Amazing humidity, though! --sue, from (usually) much drier MT > > That's the *other* problem with the English climate - what heat we get > is usually wet/sticky heat. > > Teddy But it's enough heat for everyone to race outside spend as much of the day as possible half undressed outside on whatever sunny area is available (often the fire escape) to get a 'tan' and come in as red as a lobster. OK this is only 6 months worth of my own experience talking but I've heard this general sentiment repeated by a few 'natives'. Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole in OR in Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra, Australia ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 20 00:09:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8K49Swt010287 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 00:09:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8K48m4d021616 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 19 Sep 2004 22:08:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8K48gYG040134; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 22:08:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065c28.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065c28.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.205]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8K48aYG040063 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 22:08:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from costumrs@radiks.net) Received: from user-12l20kb.cable.mindspring.com ([69.81.2.139] helo=pierre-ynmjysj2.radiks.net) by pop-a065c28.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1C9FTf-000611-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 21:08:35 -0700 Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.2.20040919224147.0248ab50@pop.radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net@pop.radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 22:46:15 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <200409191801.i8JI0rYH022746@net.indra.com> References: <200409191801.i8JI0rYH022746@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Request X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello, all - Once again I am appealing to your spirit of helpfulness. I received the following request for information by way of being the Corresponding Secretary for the International Costumers' Guild. Please respond directly to Marissa if you have any suggestions for her. Thanks to all in advance. Sandy Pettinger Corresponding Secretary, ICG Forwarded message......................... >X-Sender: purplefrog83@hotmail.com >From: "marissa cassin" >To: corr-secretary@costume.org >Subject: career path >Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 05:36:17 +0000 > >To whom it may concern, > >I am currently a student at The University of Auckland, New Zealand, 5 >weeks away from completing my Bachelor of Arts (Honours) in Art History. >Originally I had planned to complete my Masters next year with a one year >thesis, but have reevaluated my options. My dream career would be a dress >historian, whether examining, conserving, or exhibiting costumes of the >past. I am currently undertaking a research report on the changes in dress >styles from the 18th - 19th centuries, which i have found enlightening. It >appears that there are no appropriate supervisors (for a thesis) or >graduate courses offered in New Zealand that would help in my chosen >career. Do you know of any courses or avenues I should explore in this >field of work? Any assistance you can give me will be of great help. > >Kind Regards >Marissa Cassin >Auckland >New Zealand "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed to Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly -- Why They Are Simply Doomed. Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 20 00:44:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8K4iWXw010451 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 00:44:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8K4he4d023960 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 19 Sep 2004 22:43:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8K4hXYG058368; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 22:43:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.compassnet.com.au [203.26.180.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8K4hQYH058215 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 22:43:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from glendar@compassnet.com.au) Received: from mail (root@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.10/linuxconf) with SMTP id i8K4pbXL019597 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 14:51:37 +1000 Received: from glendaii ([203.26.180.185]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.10/linuxconf) with SMTP id i8K4pSuL019552 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 14:51:33 +1000 Message-ID: <004c01c49ecc$67203ee0$eaf4fea9@glendaii> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A55@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> <000601c49ec3$610d7620$1391d6cb@ewalpole> Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Wet weather garb/English Summers (WAS: Court Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 14:43:31 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I agree! We were watching the outdoor display at Leeds Royal Armouries on a sunny, warm day this time last year. All the English people were out in the sun, and Wayne and I were the only people sitting in the shade. Us Australians seem to have a cultural tendancy to clump together under the shade when it's sunny, and just can't understand those who don't. Maybe it's because we all know too many people who've had skin cancers. Glenda. ----- Original Message ----- > > But it's enough heat for everyone to race outside spend as much of the day > as possible half undressed outside on whatever sunny area is available > (often the fire escape) to get a 'tan' and come in as red as a lobster. OK > this is only 6 months worth of my own experience talking but I've heard this > general sentiment repeated by a few 'natives'. > Elizabeth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 20 00:59:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8K4xIrh010509 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 00:59:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8K4wc4d025013 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 19 Sep 2004 22:58:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8K4wYYG066532; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 22:58:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay18-f29.bay18.hotmail.com [65.54.187.79]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8K4wTYG066464 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 22:58:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jessicastier@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 21:49:03 -0700 Received: from 69.75.225.218 by by18fd.bay18.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 04:49:03 GMT X-Originating-IP: [69.75.225.218] X-Originating-Email: [jessicastier@hotmail.com] X-Sender: jessicastier@hotmail.com From: "jessica stier" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 04:49:03 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Sep 2004 04:49:03.0404 (UTC) FILETIME=[270FAEC0:01C49ECD] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Corset X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I found a really cost effective and simple way to bone my corsets. Go to your local hardware store and look at the large bundles of wood stacked up. They are all strapped with either a plastic or metal material. I found the thicker plastic strapping to be perfect to use in making corsets. The hardware store throws the stuff away so you can take as much as you need home with you for FREE!!! You can cut it with sharp scissors or snips and it is super stable. What ever option you choose, good luck to you!!! :) jessica _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfeeŽ Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 20 03:31:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8K7Vvsn007674 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 03:31:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8K7VF4d005184 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Sep 2004 01:31:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8K7V3YG048626; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 01:31:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8K7V0YG048593 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 01:31:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F1215DE22 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 00:30:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040920002915.00b18060@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 00:30:58 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Quilling In-Reply-To: <4c5accc804091419514419caa7@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:51 PM 9/14/2004 -0400, you wrote: >Ok I'm working on a polonaise (PP 1880's polonaise that I've made >before in plaid) and my idea is to trim the lining fabric around the >edge of the hem and neck and etc. Does anyone know how to quill fabric >or have instructions online? I did it eons ago but cannot for the life >of me recall how to do it. > >B. Hi B. You know, I was hoping someone would answer this one, because I have never heard of quilling before, and at first thought it was a typo for quilting, but that doesn't match the rest of the sentences. So, do you mind explaining what quilling is? Thanks, Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 20 04:26:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8K8QEtF026400 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 04:26:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8K8PZ4d010751 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Sep 2004 02:25:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8K8PTYG074138; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 02:25:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk ([193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8K8PPYG073811 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 02:25:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i8K8Ona16355.; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 09:24:49 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 09:24:48 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 09:24:35 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Wet weather garb/English Summers (WAS: Court Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO True. The authorities keep warning us about the dangers of skin cancer, but in most summers hot sunny days are still a rare enough treat for people to be tempted to make the most of them. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> glendar@compassnet.com.au 20/09/2004 05:43:31 >>> I agree! We were watching the outdoor display at Leeds Royal Armouries on a sunny, warm day this time last year. All the English people were out in the sun, and Wayne and I were the only people sitting in the shade. Us Australians seem to have a cultural tendancy to clump together under the shade when it's sunny, and just can't understand those who don't. Maybe it's because we all know too many people who've had skin cancers. Glenda. -____________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 20 07:20:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8KBKQ5H011913 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 07:20:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KBFk5f027767 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Sep 2004 05:19:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KAxOYG050897; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 04:59:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KAxMYH050866 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 04:59:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i8KAv9TA007455 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 06:57:09 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 06:57:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <414EB807.6080301@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 06:59:19 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Wet weather garb/English Summers (WAS: Court References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate M Bunting wrote: > True. The authorities keep warning us about the dangers of skin cancer, > but in most summers hot sunny days are still a rare enough treat for > people to be tempted to make the most of them. Here in the NE USA, there are plenty of sunny days, but even at SCA events (where in our time period, head coverings were 90% de rigeur), there are few who cover their heads. (CV strikes pose of Victorian Distress.) And it's worse among the general population. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du PrĂŠ Argent Register to vote! Don't let that other guy win! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 20 07:31:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8KBVThL011960 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 07:31:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KBUo4d029112 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Sep 2004 05:30:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KBUlYG072102; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 05:30:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KBUjYG072073 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 05:30:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B0002B558 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 06:30:41 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p724.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.213.217]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 3B813D42D for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 06:30:40 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Quilling Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 06:30:41 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20040920002915.00b18060@64.87.54.245> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I too am curious as the only quilling that I know of are the Native American Indian quillwork which is a craft that works with porcupine quills and the craft that makes pictures out of rolled strips of paper. De -----Original Message----- At 10:51 PM 9/14/2004 -0400, you wrote: >Ok I'm working on a polonaise (PP 1880's polonaise that I've made >before in plaid) and my idea is to trim the lining fabric around the >edge of the hem and neck and etc. Does anyone know how to quill fabric >or have instructions online? I did it eons ago but cannot for the life >of me recall how to do it. > >B. Hi B. You know, I was hoping someone would answer this one, because I have never heard of quilling before, and at first thought it was a typo for quilting, but that doesn't match the rest of the sentences. So, do you mind explaining what quilling is? Thanks, Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 20 07:59:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8KBxRg1012661 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 07:59:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KBwn4d000758 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Sep 2004 05:58:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KBwkYG086113; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 05:58:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KBwWYG085963 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 05:58:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-8.13) id A5DE592B0124; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 07:58:22 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.109 ([209.131.81.109] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 20 Sep 04 11:58:17 -0000 Message-ID: <000b01c49f0a$19566c00$6d5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <414EB807.6080301@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Wet weather garb/English Summers (WAS: Court Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:05:18 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO (With tongue stuck in cheek) Except for those who seem to have a baseball cap permanently installed on their head what ever their costume might be! Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia Virtue" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 6:59 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Wet weather garb/English Summers (WAS: Court > Kate M Bunting wrote: > > > True. The authorities keep warning us about the dangers of skin cancer, > > but in most summers hot sunny days are still a rare enough treat for > > people to be tempted to make the most of them. > > Here in the NE USA, there are plenty of sunny days, but even at SCA > events (where in our time period, head coverings were 90% de rigeur), > there are few who cover their heads. (CV strikes pose of Victorian > Distress.) > > And it's worse among the general population. > > -- > Cynthia Virtue and/or > Cynthia du PrĂŠ Argent > > Register to vote! Don't let that other guy win! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 20 08:41:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8KCfvoO013037 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:41:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KCf64d003350 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Sep 2004 06:41:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KCexYG008475; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 06:40:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.cableone.net (scanmail3.cableone.net [24.116.0.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KCewYG008448 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 06:40:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kbaird@cableone.net) Received: from kimathlon (unverified [24.119.35.202]) by smail3.cableone.net (SurgeMail 1.9b) with ESMTP id 37136982 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 05:23:43 -0700 From: "kim baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Quilling Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 07:41:18 -0500 Message-ID: <000701c49f0f$204fe810$6601a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Server: High Performance Mail Server - http://surgemail.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO "Quilling or paper filigree is the art of rolling thin strips of paper into different shapes and using the shapes to form designs." You can see some here: http://www.handcraftersvillage.com/quilling.htm I think B must be referring to a similar technique done with cording, which I suspect actually has a different name--just can't recall it. Kim --- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 20 08:45:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8KCjjQJ013053 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:45:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KCjA4d003610 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Sep 2004 06:45:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KCj9YG010595; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 06:45:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.cableone.net (scanmail3.cableone.net [24.116.0.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KCj6YG010573 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 06:45:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kbaird@cableone.net) Received: from kimathlon (unverified [24.119.35.202]) by smail3.cableone.net (SurgeMail 1.9b) with ESMTP id 37137456 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 05:27:53 -0700 From: "kim baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Quilling Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 07:45:28 -0500 Message-ID: <000801c49f0f$b57906b0$6601a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 In-Reply-To: <000701c49f0f$204fe810$6601a8c0@kimathlon> Importance: Normal X-Server: High Performance Mail Server - http://surgemail.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Maybe "B" is referring to this technique, as explained by Merriam Webster: quilling \Quill"ing\, n. (a) A band of linen, muslin, or the like, fluted, folded, or plaited so as somewhat to resemble a row of quills. Kim _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 20 09:58:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8KDw3xH016131 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 09:58:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KDvI4d009767 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Sep 2004 07:57:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KDvBYG054930; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 07:57:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from alpha2.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (alpha2.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.0.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KDv7YG054849 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 07:57:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 14:57:01 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Partially O.T. - Closets (WAS: Storage and organization) To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A75@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Partially O.T. - Closets (WAS: Storage and organization) thread-index: AcSfEkF70J5ex5gVSoCzbUhfMy7P+gABmR8g Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.20 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > The closet holds the bolts of fabrics along one wall, with boxes (both > plastic and cardboard) of fabric. Several of the posts on this subject all from (I think) from people in the U.S have mentioned a closet in a way that suggests a) that it is a built in one like a small room leading off the room they are describing, and b) that there is an assumption that there is *always* such a closet in such rooms which leads me to as, do the majority of American homes have built in closets in al the rooms? The houses and flats I have experience of in England occasionally have them in one or two of the bedrooms, but more often don't have anything of the sort and rely on free standing cupboards/wardrobes or furniture that is "built in" as an addition to the room rather than built in as part of the structure of the house? As a nod in the direction of costuming content - when we had our sewing room built on to the existing house, I considered including such a closet in the plans but decided it would be too restricting of the layout of furniture in the finished room. Teddy (of the unexpectedly aroused curiosity) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 20 09:59:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8KDxxgd016239 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 09:59:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KDxK4d009910 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Sep 2004 07:59:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KDxJYG056318; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 07:59:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.254.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KDxHYG056290 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 07:59:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 14:59:10 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Wet weather garb/English Summers (WAS: Court To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A76@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] RE: Wet weather garb/English Summers (WAS: Court thread-index: AcSfEkF70J5ex5gVSoCzbUhfMy7P+gAB45qw Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.20 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > That's the *other* problem with the English climate - what heat we get > > is usually wet/sticky heat. > > > > Teddy > > But it's enough heat for everyone to race outside spend as > much of the day as possible half undressed outside on > whatever sunny area is available (often the fire escape) to > get a 'tan' and come in as red as a lobster. That's very true. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 20 10:10:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8KEAOtE016838 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 10:10:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KE9e4d010950 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:09:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KE9RYG063360; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:09:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KE9OYG063276 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:09:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-8.13) id A48D593700BC; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 10:09:17 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.117 ([209.131.81.117] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 20 Sep 04 14:09:11 -0000 Message-ID: <000f01c49f1c$63623e20$755183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A75@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Partially O.T. - Closets (WAS: Storage and organization) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 10:16:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Our house which was built about 1918 has a few built-ins like in the kitchen and diningroom. The living room has a generous closet. Up stairs, two of the bedrooms have original closets and the other two had closets installed sometime in the 1950s. As a New Englander, most houses I know built before the 20th C did not have separate space, especially for hanging garments. The "cubbyhole and press" were the usual storage accoutrements. When some of these spaces were renovated for the 20th C, closets of all kinds (including WC) were installed. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Teddy" To: Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 9:57 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Partially O.T. - Closets (WAS: Storage and organization) > > > The closet holds the bolts of fabrics along one wall, with boxes > (both > > plastic and cardboard) of fabric. > > Several of the posts on this subject all from (I think) from people in > the U.S have mentioned a closet in a way that suggests > > a) that it is a built in one like a small room leading off the room they > are describing, and > > b) that there is an assumption that there is *always* such a closet in > such rooms > > which leads me to as, do the majority of American homes have built in > closets in al the rooms? > > The houses and flats I have experience of in England occasionally have > them in one or two of the bedrooms, but more often don't have anything > of the sort and rely on free standing cupboards/wardrobes or furniture > that is "built in" as an addition to the room rather than built in as > part of the structure of the house? > > As a nod in the direction of costuming content - when we had our sewing > room built on to the existing house, I considered including such a > closet in the plans but decided it would be too restricting of the > layout of furniture in the finished room. > > Teddy > (of the unexpectedly aroused curiosity) > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 20 10:15:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8KEFnnq017199 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 10:15:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KEFA4d011517 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:15:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KEF6YG067448; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:15:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KEEtYG067342 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:14:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02233 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 09:22:33 -0500 Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 09:22:32 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Partially O.T. - Closets (WAS: Storage and organization) In-Reply-To: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A75@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 20 Sep 2004, Teddy wrote: > which leads me to as, do the majority of American homes have built in > closets in al the rooms? Generally, yes, in the bedrooms at least, and sometimes in other rooms as well. Some are shallow, just a few feet sectioned off the length of a wall, with sliding doors to provide access across the breadth of it. Others are like little rooms, with doors -- these are "walk-in" closets. Plus, the front hall typically has a coat closet, and often in other halls (or off the kitchen, bathroom, or laundry area) you'll find a utility closet or linen closet. Most Americans would consider it unusual for a bedroom not to have a closet, even in older houses. Ample closet space is a huge selling point for homes and apartments, and there's a whole industry based around closet organization (you can put in shelving and dividers and hanging facilities yourself, or hire a specialist to do it for you). > The houses and flats I have experience of in England occasionally have > them in one or two of the bedrooms, but more often don't have anything > of the sort and rely on free standing cupboards/wardrobes or furniture > that is "built in" as an addition to the room rather than built in as > part of the structure of the house? My husband, who lived in England for some time, explained to me that this has to do with a long-standing tax regulation. Houses were taxed based on the number of rooms, and closets counted as extra rooms (or something like that -- maybe it was number of doors?). I don't know if the rule is still in effect, but obviously it was in place when many English houses were built. Even if it is in effect still, I don't know whether it would apply to additions or modifications made to existing houses. Though I do recall an English friend who chose to add an attic storage to his daughter's room talking about this rule as well. I don't know if he was referring to anything affecting him now, as opposed to explaining to us why the room had no closet. Freestanding wardrobes are almost unheard of here -- they're considered more decorative than practical. They're a must in England. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 20 10:19:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8KEJ6mV017405 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 10:19:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KEIQ4d011829 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:18:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KEIQYG069854; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:18:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from outbound20-2.nyc.untd.com (outbound20-2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.20.160]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8KEIKYG069702 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:18:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from outbound21-sr.nyc.untd.com (webmail04.nyc.untd.com [10.140.30.144]) by smtpout02.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABAW73V7ABUL92J for (sender ); Mon, 20 Sep 2004 07:17:33 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCmhwhdYDfRazBUpnIe+1x38PT44m/UvijQ== Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by webmail04.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id J7YSAPMT; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 07:16:48 PDT Received: from [4.158.153.148] by webmail04.nyc.untd.com with HTTP: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 14:16:20 GMT X-Originating-IP: [4.158.153.148] Mime-Version: 1.0 From: "seamstrix@juno.com" Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 14:16:20 GMT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Partially O.T. - Closets (WAS: Storage and organization) X-Mailer: WebMail Version 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <20040920.071648.10767.712950@webmail04.nyc.untd.com> X-ContentStamp: 10:5:822040509 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In America the amount of closet space is directly related to the age of the house. In older (19th century) houses, there may not be much closet space- maybe just small ones in the bedrooms. In most houses built in the later half of the 20th century, especially ones built in the 80's and 90's, the closets tend to be very big, sometimes amounting to small dressing rooms. One common type of closet is made with bi-fold doors and covers the length of a wall. Makes furniture arrangement tricky but is great in terms of storage and accessibility. Free-standing cupboards and wardrobes are definitely the exception rather than the rule over here. Fashions in closet space have changed over the years, but purpose built is definitely the most common......in my area.....YMMV. Karen I'll show you mine the next time you come for a visit! -- Teddy wrote: > The closet holds the bolts of fabrics along one wall, with boxes (both > plastic and cardboard) of fabric. Several of the posts on this subject all from (I think) from people in the U.S have mentioned a closet in a way that suggests a) that it is a built in one like a small room leading off the room they are describing, and b) that there is an assumption that there is *always* such a closet in such rooms which leads me to as, do the majority of American homes have built in closets in al the rooms? The houses and flats I have experience of in England occasionally have them in one or two of the bedrooms, but more often don't have anything of the sort and rely on free standing cupboards/wardrobes or furniture that is "built in" as an addition to the room rather than built in as part of the structure of the house? As a nod in the direction of costuming content - when we had our sewing room built on to the existing house, I considered including such a closet in the plans but decided it would be too restricting of the layout of furniture in the finished room. Teddy (of the unexpectedly aroused curiosity) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________ Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 20 10:28:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8KESVUW017977 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 10:28:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KERt4d012756 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:27:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KERrYG076722; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:27:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com ([199.170.202.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KERlYG076595 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:27:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i8KEnTTP042576 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 10:49:29 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: (from sfarmer@localhost) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3/Submit) id i8KEnTii042575 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 10:49:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 10:49:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Farmer Message-Id: <200409201449.i8KEnTii042575@sabre.goldsword.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Partially O.T. - Closets (WAS: Storage and organization) In-Reply-To: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Freestanding wardrobes are almost unheard of here -- they're considered > more decorative than practical. They're a must in England. My folks are from rural Appalachia. My grandmother's house had (well, it still does) one closet and that was in a bedroom that was added later. My grandfather built the house sometime around WW2. However, there was at least one wardrobe in each bedroom. My great-grandfather's house was the same way except it had no closets. Some of the wardrobes were made to hold long garments -- others had drawers in the bottom where you could put folded clothes. Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 20 11:05:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8KF5mp0019501 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 11:05:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KF4t4d016601 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Sep 2004 09:04:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KF4lYG006556; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 09:04:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8KF4aYG006436 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 09:04:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 13593 invoked from network); 20 Sep 2004 15:05:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO webmail.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com with SMTP; 20 Sep 2004 15:05:40 -0000 Received: from 24.4.69.40 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com); by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:04:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1123.24.4.69.40.1095692674.squirrel@24.4.69.40> In-Reply-To: <000f01c49f1c$63623e20$755183d1@rmitchellras> References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A75@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> <000f01c49f1c$63623e20$755183d1@rmitchellras> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:04:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Partially O.T. - Closets (WAS: Storage and organization) From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a X-Mailer: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Our house which was built about 1918 has a few built-ins like in the > kitchen > and diningroom. The living room has a generous closet. Up stairs, two of > the bedrooms have original closets and the other two had closets installed > sometime in the 1950s. As a New Englander, most houses I know built > before > the 20th C did not have separate space, especially for hanging garments. I just wanted to add that most houses from the 19th century also had basements for storage. Most "modern" homes lack this feature (at least on the west coast) and I think that is why there is much more storage space in the main body of the house. I think people in the midwest and such still can have basements in more modern homes. But for many people on the west coast, the closets and the garage are the main storage areas for everything! Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 20 11:08:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8KF8O3k019526 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 11:08:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KF7b4d016894 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Sep 2004 09:07:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KF7aYG008850; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 09:07:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KF7SYG008685 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 09:07:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gia_gavino@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.114 ([204.127.197.114]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <2004092015072101400fg6noe>; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 15:07:21 +0000 Received: from [24.16.244.181] by 204.127.197.114; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 15:07:18 +0000 From: gia_gavino@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Quilling Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 15:07:18 +0000 Message-Id: <092020041507.16186.414EF225000CAD0D00003F3A2200750330010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Jul 16 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: Z2lhX2dhdmlub0Bjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Quilling is the art of rolling long, thin (1/8th" wide) folded strips of paper into intricate designs. There is a paper quilling book out now. I imagine that the quilling they are referring to would be the same concept applied to fabric rolled thin folded strips. I'm envisioning how the art of origami can use both fabric and paper...? -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > At 10:51 PM 9/14/2004 -0400, you wrote: > >Ok I'm working on a polonaise (PP 1880's polonaise that I've made > >before in plaid) and my idea is to trim the lining fabric around the > >edge of the hem and neck and etc. Does anyone know how to quill fabric > >or have instructions online? I did it eons ago but cannot for the life > >of me recall how to do it. > > > >B. > > > Hi B. > > You know, I was hoping someone would answer this one, because I have never > heard of quilling before, and at first thought it was a typo for quilting, > but that doesn't match the rest of the sentences. So, do you mind > explaining what quilling is? > > Thanks, > > Kimiko > > Kimiko Small > Owner ~ DreamTime Studios > http://www.dreamtime-studios.com > Fresno, CA, USA > > "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 20 11:29:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8KFTXZ1019733 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 11:29:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KFSh4d019238 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Sep 2004 09:28:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KFSdYG026122; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 09:28:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from audiogram.mail.pas.earthlink.net (audiogram.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.253]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KFSSYG025964 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 09:28:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-4.155.21.80.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([4.155.21.80] helo=HELENPINTO) by audiogram.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1C9Q5Z-0003ff-MD for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:28:26 -0700 Message-ID: <00e701c49f26$74d97b00$50159b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A75@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Partially O.T. - Closets (WAS: Storage and organization) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 11:28:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9efb6b2c7814269f877aaf6238fc16b1a36350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.155.21.80 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Teddy wrote: > do the majority of American homes have built in closets in al the rooms? Closets in American homes are something of an obsession and a major selling point for the real estate agent. In the northeastern US, closets in the bedrooms and one somewhere near the main entrance have been pretty much the standard since the beginning of the 20th century. Other common ones are pantry closets in the kitchens, linen closets near or in the bathroom, and general storage closets anywhere they can fit. Older homes were retro-fitted, and since the 50's, master bedrooms usually have two. The same standard applies to apartments. Like everything else, closet size has been expanding- recently built McMansions have walk-in closets (two, his and hers) in the master bedroom larger than my last apartment. And then, there are the garages... -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 20 11:39:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8KFdbLi019780 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 11:39:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KFcq4d020448 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Sep 2004 09:38:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KFcpYG034669; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 09:38:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web13525.mail.yahoo.com (web13525.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.215]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8KFcjYG034614 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 09:38:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pioneercynthia@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040920153843.35740.qmail@web13525.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [149.164.77.243] by web13525.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:38:43 PDT Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:38:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Ms Cynthia Schrage To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200409132141.i8DLeuhN069698@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] stumpwork/extensive ornamentation X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I love hearing about how people put ornamentation on the projects that they're making. I just finished a weekend re-enactment of the Underground Railroad. I made three copies of the Simplicity 7212 for some ladies and one for me. They all had NO trim at all, and while that was very easy to do (it had to be, I only had three weeks to make all three of their dresses + being a mom + full time college + church organist), it got kind of boring after a while. (Two of the dresses were made of flannel that was supplied to me, and I'll never work with flannel again!!!!) I think the next dress I make will have SOMETHING on it, even if just applied braid. Does anyone have a good source of Soutache Braid, or other trims from the Antebellum U.S. period? Thanks, Cynthia P.S. Extinct Disease thread is interesting, but can we get back to topic? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 20 12:08:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8KG8uQf019999 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 12:08:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KG7v4d023938 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Sep 2004 10:07:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KG7mYG059198; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 10:07:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KG7bYG058938 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 10:07:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-8.13) id A03F645F00AE; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 12:07:27 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.116 ([209.131.81.116] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 20 Sep 04 16:07:25 -0000 Message-ID: <000f01c49f2c$e7166b00$745183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040920153843.35740.qmail@web13525.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] stumpwork/extensive ornamentation Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 12:14:26 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Have you tried "Cheeptrims.com"? I took time last spring to check out their vast inventory and was Amazed at what is available in volume for their"Cheep" prices. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ms Cynthia Schrage" To: Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 11:38 AM Subject: [h-cost] stumpwork/extensive ornamentation > I love hearing about how people put ornamentation on > the projects that they're making. > > I just finished a weekend re-enactment of the > Underground Railroad. I made three copies of the > Simplicity 7212 for some ladies and one for me. They > all had NO trim at all, and while that was very easy > to do (it had to be, I only had three weeks to make > all three of their dresses + being a mom + full time > college + church organist), it got kind of boring > after a while. (Two of the dresses were made of > flannel that was supplied to me, and I'll never work > with flannel again!!!!) > > I think the next dress I make will have SOMETHING on > it, even if just applied braid. > > Does anyone have a good source of Soutache Braid, or > other trims from the Antebellum U.S. period? > > Thanks, > Cynthia > > P.S. Extinct Disease thread is interesting, but can we > get back to topic? > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. > http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 20 13:11:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8KHB9Y1020401 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 13:11:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KHAO4d001975 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Sep 2004 11:10:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KHA4YG013758; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 11:10:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KH9xYH013665 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 11:10:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-115-5.sonic.net [209.148.115.5]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i8KH9qwE023686 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 10:09:53 -0700 Message-ID: <414F0F0B.6070503@lavoltapress.com> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 10:10:35 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Partially O.T. - Closets (WAS: Storage and organization) References: <20040920.071648.10767.712950@webmail04.nyc.untd.com> In-Reply-To: <20040920.071648.10767.712950@webmail04.nyc.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO seamstrix@juno.com wrote: >In America the amount of closet space is directly related to the age of the house. In older (19th century) houses, there may not be much closet space- maybe just small ones in the bedrooms. > I grew up in an large unremodeled 1860 farmhouse in the mid-Atlantic states. There was a closet under the stairs that rose from the dining room (an awkward space with no other good use), and a built-in china cabinet in the dining room. No kitchen cabinets, though we inherited one of those old freestanding ones from the original owners. I think it was late 19th century, rather than mid. Rickety open pantry shelves. (Also open shelves in the root cellar and some kind of open storage in the wine cellar; these backed onto the pantry but you had to get to them from the outside of the house.) Upstairs, four large main rooms usable variously as bedrooms or parlors, each with a shallow closet (too shallow for hangers) with a row of hooks screwed into the back wall. No hall closet. The original owners used a hallstand and so did my parents. Every room in the ground floor and the second floor (the house is built on a hill) opens onto a porch or balcony; there is one on every side of the house. On the second floor, each room opens onto two porches or balconies, on different sides of the room (because those rooms are all on corners). For the small porches, in the middle, each pair of rooms has a door not directly to the porch but to a little room that has a door to the porch. My family does not know what those rooms were used for. Each one has three doors (to one room, the other room, and the porch), so you can't put too much stuff in there without blocking a door. However, there was plenty of room for a wardrobe on the free wall, and my parents put wardrobes there for extra closet space. There was also plenty of room to dress in there if you were so inclined. On the third and top floor, two good-sized attic rooms, usable as bedrooms or for storage (if you didn't mind no fireplace (or other heat) and no insulation; my family used one as a bedroom for a long time even so). Plus a room-sized landing in the middle that may well have been used as a bedroom or sitting room even though it did not close off. The third floor had no closets (and you could only see the tops of the porches, not walk onto them). Attics and basements used to serve many of the same purposes as closets even if they didn't have any closets. People would put out-of-season clothes in the attic till they were needed--as well as all kinds of other stuff. I am not sure if houses are often built with attics any more. I now live in a geographic area where there is no snow, therefore even many old buildings have flat roofs with no attic. Likewise, this area has few dug-in basements. However, there is often a large garage on the ground floor of the house, typically used as a laundry room, work area for amateur repairs and carpentry, and miscellaneous storage. And possibly a car, but the car can be parked outside if necessary. Apartment living is not new, but people who live in modern apartments tend to be very concerned about closets because they can't store things in a garage or attic. And if modern houses elsewhere are being built without attics (maybe there have been improvements in roof design? I'm no architect), that would explain a few things. >In most houses built in the later half of the 20th century, especially ones built in the 80's and 90's, the closets tend to be very big, sometimes amounting to small dressing rooms. > Part of this is just the modern yearning for THE HOME, also exemplified by the ads for very fancy bedding and cookware. The thinking seems to be that if your job allows you to spend hardly any time at home it had better be restful, even luxurious time. There is also the theory that if you organize stuff you have more space. I have my doubts, but since I dislike organizing objects I don't really know. I just dig through stuff and regard it as a pleasant journey of discovery. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 20 13:36:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8KHaM1l020608 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 13:36:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KHZX4d005342 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Sep 2004 11:35:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KHZSYG036104; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 11:35:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net (smtp2.suscom.net [64.78.83.231]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KHZCYH035838 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 11:35:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (smtp2.suscom.net [127.0.0.1]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 808711CDD53 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 13:30:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp2 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 22868-08 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 13:30:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip186.177.235.64.susc.suscom.net [64.235.177.186]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 4D1501CDD72 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 13:30:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <052501c49f38$20be1690$bab1eb40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A75@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Partially O.T. - Closets (WAS: Storage and organization) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 13:34:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Teddy" To: Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 9:57 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Partially O.T. - Closets (WAS: Storage and organization) > > > The closet holds the bolts of fabrics along one wall, with boxes > (both > > plastic and cardboard) of fabric. > > Several of the posts on this subject all from (I think) from people in > the U.S have mentioned a closet in a way that suggests > > a) that it is a built in one like a small room leading off the room they > are describing, and > > b) that there is an assumption that there is *always* such a closet in > such rooms > > which leads me to as, do the majority of American homes have built in > closets in al the rooms? Not in all rooms..my house has three bedrooms, with a closet in each, plus a hall closet and a coat closet in the living room. (Which is really full--for someone who hates wearing them, I sure have a lot of coats!). Since we don't hang the kids clothes, their closet is a giant toybox. (Yes, they have way too many toys.) I store a fair amount of my fabric in the closet in the baby's room, especially the 60" wide stuff on rolls. We also have a two car garage, a basement, and an attic. The basement is too damp for much storage, and the attic gets mice in the winter, but oh how I love having a garage! I'm rather fond of that basement, too, when hurricanes and tornadoes are threatening! Dianne > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 20 13:40:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8KHePAb020664 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 13:40:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KHdY4d006082 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Sep 2004 11:39:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KHdVYG039851; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 11:39:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.206]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KHdHYG039698 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 11:39:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jacquelinejbump@gmail.com) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 78so3103172rnl for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 10:38:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.74.50 with SMTP id w50mr1731092rna; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 10:38:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.163.72 with HTTP; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 10:38:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4c5accc8040920103834e33747@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 13:38:40 -0400 From: Kristalori History To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Quilling In-Reply-To: <092020041507.16186.414EF225000CAD0D00003F3A2200750330010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 References: <092020041507.16186.414EF225000CAD0D00003F3A2200750330010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i8KHdHYG039698 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There were a few replies to this so I'm only going to leave one response on. Back in the day when I was about 14 (I'm 32 now) my great grandmother taught me to quill. I know it's not a regional term because I've read in other books some from the 40's. I'm more inclined to think it's a term more heavy in use for Victorian and Edwardian fashion. The definition *I* found was this: verb quilled, quilling 1. To form (material in a ruff) into tubular folds. 2. To wind (thread, etc) on to a bobbin. Etymology: C. We'd use bias made from the trim fabric and roll it and then pin and sew where we wanted it. Mostly geometric shapes but I've seen a cat on a skirt once. And yes I've seen the paper quilling and have done it years ago in school but somehow I don't think this is the same method for some reason. If you look her: http://vintagedancers.org/costume_1860_det.html Near the bottom (6)you will see an illustration labeled: Englishwoman's Domestic Magazine, February 1862 Description of the colored plate, (Englishwoman's Domestic Magazine, February 1862) and farther along in the description you read: The body is made of plain white silk, and the berthé of white crępe, cut pointed, and ornamented with two rows of quilled silk ribbon And at http://www.harriets.com/Teadress.htm among her patterns is one for: 51-L Louise, c. 1862 Peterson's Magazine. Pattern includes fitted bodice, basic 1860's skirt and short cape. Linen/silk mix with quilled self-trim on cape, skirt and bodice neckline and sleeves. If you Google under quilled fabric dress trim around page two all sorts of Victorian gowns start popping up. Now again my problem is recalling *how* to do this method of trim not *what* it is. I'm hoping someone else has done it and can explain (hopefully with pictures cause I'm a bit dense with verbal explanations) Bice On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 15:07:18 +0000, gia_gavino@comcast.net wrote: > Quilling is the art of rolling long, thin (1/8th" wide) folded strips of paper into intricate designs. There is a paper quilling book out now. I imagine that the quilling they are referring to would be the same concept applied to fabric rolled thin folded strips. I'm envisioning how the art of origami can use both fabric and paper...? > > -- > Slan go foill > Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri > Emer's Needle Wares > > > > > -------------- Original message -------------- > > > At 10:51 PM 9/14/2004 -0400, you wrote: > > >Ok I'm working on a polonaise (PP 1880's polonaise that I've made > > >before in plaid) and my idea is to trim the lining fabric around the > > >edge of the hem and neck and etc. Does anyone know how to quill fabric > > >or have instructions online? I did it eons ago but cannot for the life > > >of me recall how to do it. > > > > > >B. > > > > > > Hi B. > > > > You know, I was hoping someone would answer this one, because I have never > > heard of quilling before, and at first thought it was a typo for quilting, > > but that doesn't match the rest of the sentences. So, do you mind > > explaining what quilling is? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Kimiko > > > > Kimiko Small > > Owner ~ DreamTime Studios > > http://www.dreamtime-studios.com > > Fresno, CA, USA > > > > "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > -- "Pardon me, Lady Tudor Glitz, but telling people things aren't period isn't period." Italian Ladies 2005 Calendar http://www.lulu.com/kristalori _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 20 13:54:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8KHshd9020806 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 13:54:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KHrf4d007654 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Sep 2004 11:53:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KHrTYG051833; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 11:53:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m19.mx.aol.com (imo-m19.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KHrIYG051674 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 11:53:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from LLWatts@aol.com) Received: from LLWatts@aol.com by imo-m19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.7.) id 6.1d3.2baf93a2 (4328) for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 13:53:01 -0400 (EDT) From: LLWatts@aol.com Message-ID: <1d3.2baf93a2.2e8072fd@aol.com> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 13:53:01 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Partially O.T. - Closets (WAS: Storage and organization) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6032 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>>>>> I just wanted to add that most houses from the 19th century also had basements for storage. Most "modern" homes lack this feature (at least on the west coast) and I think that is why there is much more storage space in the main body of the house. I think people in the midwest and such still can have basements in more modern homes. But for many people on the west coast, the closets and the garage are the main storage areas for everything! >>>>>> There's some houses in this area (Omaha, NE) without basements -- some relatives of mine moved into a neighborhood that was originally built immediately post-WWII, and it was faster to get the houses up without basements. And then when that neighborhood was flattened in the 1975 tornado, it was faster to rebuild on the original slab.... However, most houses continue to have basements. If you're digging that deep to put the footings in, you might as well put a floor at the bottom of the hole and get usable space out of it. Leah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 20 14:09:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8KI9S9M020892 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 14:09:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KI8k4d009593 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Sep 2004 12:08:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KI8dYG064770; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 12:08:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out006.verizon.net (out006pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.106]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KI8ZYG064728 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 12:08:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jauncourt@verizon.net) Received: from [4.12.168.136] by out006.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040920180823.RAEH22385.out006.verizon.net@[4.12.168.136]> for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 13:08:23 -0500 Message-ID: <414F1CA2.4010207@verizon.net> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 13:08:34 -0500 From: Maura Folsom User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20040616 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Partially O.T. - Closets (WAS: Storage and References: <200409201711.i8KHBNYH014880@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: <200409201711.i8KHBNYH014880@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out006.verizon.net from [4.12.168.136] at Mon, 20 Sep 2004 13:08:23 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Teddy asked: > do the majority of American homes have built in > closets in al the rooms? The modern ones mostly do (after 1900). Many older homes do not, but the older homes also tend to have built-in cupboards, small rooms formerly used for other purposes, and surplus hallways that may have been intended for dual use as storage areas. My mother (don't worry, there's costuming content here) has owned 2 19th century houses with the odd surplus-hallway. They did end up being used as closets in both the homes, but I think that the original intent of one may have been top get from the bedroom to the middle room (a large room we had divided in half to provide a room for myself and my sister) without going through the kitchen. The other house's closet/hall may have been intended for access between the men's parlor and one of the two original bedrooms. We also depended mostly on wardrobes for clothing storage throughout my childhood. The other houses we lived in had closets, but, being built between 1910 and 1935, all closets were Very Small by modern standards (less roomy than a reflects the changing attitude towards clothing - people didn't have as many clothes that required hanging up before now. Mostly clothing was kept in furniture, and only peices that you needed to have ready (instead of folded and put up) were kept in the closet. For example, my husband hangs EVERYTHING up - t-shirts, jeans, sweats, as well as suits and buttondown shirts. I think he learned this in the military, as things stay fresh-pressed longer when you hang them. Currently, mom lives in a Federal-style home built in the 1840's or 50's and it has ... no closets. Unless you count the buttery/pantry, the dressing-room, the later interior cellar stair, and the pot cupboard. It also has few or no hallways, with the two that do exist present to house staircases. To access the nursery (which will become Mom's costuming shop), one has to exit her bedroom and go through what we guess was a dressingroom, which is a narrow room about 8 feet by 20 (20 feet is the interior width of the house, and nearly all the rooms are as wide as this) with windows at both ends. Mother has subdivided this and installed a small bathroom at one end, making the other half her closet/dressing room, by installing rods and shelves along the long walls and a dressing table in front of the window. OBCostume content (besides my history of closets bit above): Mom is planning to get back into professionally producing reenactment and museum quality reproduction clothing again. She wants to focus on the US Civil War, as there is so much local history there and family history involved in the conflict locally. Maura _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 20 14:44:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8KIijp9021300 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 14:44:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KIhp4d013545 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Sep 2004 12:43:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KIhKYG095228; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 12:43:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KIdtYG091505 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 12:40:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1C9T4e-0009jN-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 18:39:40 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 19:38:34 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Wet weather garb/English Summers (WAS: Court References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A55@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> <000601c49ec3$610d7620$1391d6cb@ewalpole> <004c01c49ecc$67203ee0$eaf4fea9@glendaii> In-Reply-To: <004c01c49ecc$67203ee0$eaf4fea9@glendaii> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I had a friend from NZ, many years ago, who opined that what you should do is get out and expose your skin to the sun in the spring, about April, when the sun is less strong. We pointed out that doing that in Scotland was more likely to lead to frostbite than sunburn! Jean "This region was the first to develop agnosticism - while other peoples were worshipping the sun, we doubted its existence" Glenda Robinson wrote >I agree! > >We were watching the outdoor display at Leeds Royal Armouries on a sunny, >warm day this time last year. All the English people were out in the sun, >and Wayne and I were the only people sitting in the shade. Us Australians >seem to have a cultural tendancy to clump together under the shade when it's >sunny, and just can't understand those who don't. Maybe it's because we all >know too many people who've had skin cancers. > >Glenda. > >----- Original Message ----- >> >> But it's enough heat for everyone to race outside spend as much of the day >> as possible half undressed outside on whatever sunny area is available >> (often the fire escape) to get a 'tan' and come in as red as a lobster. OK >> this is only 6 months worth of my own experience talking but I've heard >this >> general sentiment repeated by a few 'natives'. >> Elizabeth > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 20 14:51:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8KIp9c0021437 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 14:51:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KIoP4d014302 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Sep 2004 12:50:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KIoLYG002074; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 12:50:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KIoEYG001632 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 12:50:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bed0.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.208]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id C796C5EE02A for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 20:50:01 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <002801c49f42$a5b5f5c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <092020041507.16186.414EF225000CAD0D00003F3A2200750330010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> <4c5accc8040920103834e33747@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Quilling Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 20:50:06 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I believe i have seen very beautifull laces, where the pattern is made of sewing on a very thin bias ribbon. I dont recall what they call those laces, but they surely are beautifull. Could you also do it with a wool thread? Thick one off cause to make a beautifull pattern? Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 20 14:54:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8KIs9bC021503 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 14:54:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KIrO4d014622 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Sep 2004 12:53:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KIrMYG004580; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 12:53:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KIrJYG004545 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 12:53:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bed0.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.208]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 43D705EE0BA for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 20:53:19 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <003601c49f43$1d783960$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 20:53:27 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] stupid stupid thing not to do. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You wont believe it! I ordered many embroidery books some time ago from Amazon. I dont know how, but appearently i ordered the books from USA Amazon. 2 of the books came this evening and i had to pay costums WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa How stupid can you be? And there are 3 more shipments of books to come. I thoaght i had ordered the books from England, and i therefore did not expect to pay for costums. Bjarne who has enjoyed the books anyway! Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 20 15:05:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8KJ5VWv021999 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 15:05:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KJ4k4d015865 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Sep 2004 13:04:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KJ4eYG013521; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 13:04:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.192]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KJ4GYG013208 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 13:04:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jacquelinejbump@gmail.com) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 79so1825678rnl for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 12:03:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.82.75 with SMTP id f75mr1753189rnb; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 12:03:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.163.72 with HTTP; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 12:03:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4c5accc804092012036e17f5de@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 15:03:41 -0400 From: Kristalori History To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Quilling In-Reply-To: <002801c49f42$a5b5f5c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <092020041507.16186.414EF225000CAD0D00003F3A2200750330010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> <4c5accc8040920103834e33747@mail.gmail.com> <002801c49f42$a5b5f5c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't see why not. I've only seen it in ribbon and bias tape but I'm betting if the lace is thin enough and possible stiff enough to hold the curl I don't see why not. I've seen it done with threads but that's a different type of work and not quilling. On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 20:50:06 +0200, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi, > I believe i have seen very beautifull laces, where the pattern is made of > sewing on a very thin bias ribbon. I dont recall what they call those laces, > but they surely are beautifull. > Could you also do it with a wool thread? Thick one off cause to make a > beautifull pattern? > > Bjarne > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > -- "Pardon me, Lady Tudor Glitz, but telling people things aren't period isn't period." Italian Ladies 2005 Calendar http://www.lulu.com/kristalori _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 20 17:33:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8KLX013029266 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 17:33:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KLW14d003897 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Sep 2004 15:32:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KLVlxL034714; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 15:31:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KLVjxL034692 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 15:31:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E80702B400 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 16:31:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p399.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.145]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id C44CFD4B6 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 16:31:43 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Quilling Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 16:31:46 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <4c5accc804092012036e17f5de@mail.gmail.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Is there an up close picture to show what quilling looks like? I am have a hard time envisioning it. Is it anything like a ribbon bouillon, wrapped bar ribbon or folded ribbon stitch? Lace that has a woven band which some use bias ribbon, my grandmother called it tape lace. Someone told me it was called Battenburg lace. http://cinderella.safeshopper.com/68/437.htm?803 http://www.goantiques.com/search/images.jsp?id=624372 but some sites show cutwork and are calling it battenburg lace. http://www.prestigiousdames.com/ronni/Christmas/Battenburg1.html -----Original Message----- I don't see why not. I've only seen it in ribbon and bias tape but I'm betting if the lace is thin enough and possible stiff enough to hold the curl I don't see why not. I've seen it done with threads but that's a different type of work and not quilling. On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 20:50:06 +0200, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi, > I believe i have seen very beautifull laces, where the pattern is made of > sewing on a very thin bias ribbon. I dont recall what they call those laces, > but they surely are beautifull. > Could you also do it with a wool thread? Thick one off cause to make a > beautifull pattern? > > Bjarne > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > -- "Pardon me, Lady Tudor Glitz, but telling people things aren't period isn't period." Italian Ladies 2005 Calendar http://www.lulu.com/kristalori _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 20 17:47:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8KLlxuM029992 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 17:47:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KLl34d005833 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Sep 2004 15:47:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KLktxL046099; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 15:46:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KLkqxL046053 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 15:46:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7beb1.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.177]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 15D905EE06A for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 23:46:49 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000c01c49f5b$58f81470$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Quilling Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 23:46:46 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Your grandmother is right, but tapelace is a bobbin lace all way. The tape in the lace is bobbin made two. Battenberg lace is a sewed lace. The tape is stitched with bars, that connects the other parts of the lace. Russian tape laces is the most known of this kind. The lace i was thinking about, has the tape machinesewed to the net. Sorry i dont remember the name. Bjarne > Lace that has a woven band which some use bias ribbon, my grandmother called > it tape lace. > Someone told me it was called Battenburg lace. > > http://cinderella.safeshopper.com/68/437.htm?803 > http://www.goantiques.com/search/images.jsp?id=624372 > > but some sites show cutwork and are calling it battenburg lace. > > http://www.prestigiousdames.com/ronni/Christmas/Battenburg1.html > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 20 17:49:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8KLnFai030059 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 17:49:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KLmZ4d006008 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Sep 2004 15:48:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KLmKxL047248; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 15:48:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.207]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KLlKxL046333 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 15:47:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jacquelinejbump@gmail.com) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 78so3319645rnl for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 14:47:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.79.75 with SMTP id c75mr767424rnb; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 14:47:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.163.72 with HTTP; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 14:47:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4c5accc804092014472db91eea@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 17:47:12 -0400 From: Kristalori History To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Quilling In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <4c5accc804092012036e17f5de@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO *I* have never seen quilling done with lace. I've only seen it done with self fabric or bias tape. Paper quilling which has the same general look can be seen here: http://www.stampin.com/graphics/tips/papquil1.jpg This: http://www.refalo.com/bobbinlace/tape.html is tape lace. Battenberg can be seen here: http://www.battenberglace.com/ Again quilling doesn't use lace it's fabric made very narrow and then attached to the garment in some way. Bice On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 16:31:46 -0500, otsisto wrote: > Is there an up close picture to show what quilling looks like? I am have a > hard time envisioning it. > Is it anything like a ribbon bouillon, wrapped bar ribbon or folded ribbon > stitch? > Lace that has a woven band which some use bias ribbon, my grandmother called > it tape lace. > Someone told me it was called Battenburg lace. > > http://cinderella.safeshopper.com/68/437.htm?803 > http://www.goantiques.com/search/images.jsp?id=624372 > > but some sites show cutwork and are calling it battenburg lace. > > http://www.prestigiousdames.com/ronni/Christmas/Battenburg1.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 20 18:23:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8KMN6xC031910 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 18:23:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KMMN4d009364 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Sep 2004 16:22:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KMMIxL072180; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 16:22:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KMMHxL072142 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 16:22:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD5A52B3FA for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 17:22:16 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p399.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.145]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id BF65BD4B8 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 17:22:15 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Quilling Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 17:22:18 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <4c5accc804092014472db91eea@mail.gmail.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -----Original Message----- <<<*I* have never seen quilling done with lace. I've only seen it done with self fabric or bias tape.>>> I was trying to answer Bjarne's lace question. Thinking that he was talking about Battenburg Lace but he didn't know the name of the lace. <<>>>> Bice>>> My grandmother did something that looked like this but she never taught me. Found this book on line. http://www.taunton.com/store/pages/070416_tcpg.asp http://www.ggcreations.com.au/althea/books/embroidery/ribntrims.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 20 19:25:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8KNP939003602 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 19:25:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KNOR4d017142 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Sep 2004 17:24:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KNOKxL014003; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 17:24:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm43.prodigy.net (ylpvm43-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KNOGxL013971 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 17:24:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-86-100.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.86.100]) by ylpvm43.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KNOMCF016859 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 19:24:23 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040920161003.02576e68@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 16:23:58 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows In-Reply-To: <000801c49f0f$b57906b0$6601a8c0@kimathlon> References: <000701c49f0f$204fe810$6601a8c0@kimathlon> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] quilled trim, not lace or paper X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >\Quill"ing\, n. (a) A band of linen, muslin, or the like, fluted, >folded, or plaited so as somewhat to resemble a row of quills. I should think you could do this with long round pieces of wood, for the shaping, and a zipper foot, for the sewing. I'm guessing you could sew across one end of the band to be quilled, side to side and from the outside, then put a long round piece of wood (pencil, dowel rod, chop stick, knitting needle) along the seam underneath the band, and sew across the outside of the band again, side to side and right up against the long round thing. Repeat for the whole length. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 20 19:26:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8KNQ4GI003680 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 19:26:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KNPS4d017289 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Sep 2004 17:25:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KNPQxL014707; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 17:25:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm43.prodigy.net (ylpvm43-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KNOHxL013994 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 17:24:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-86-100.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.86.100]) by ylpvm43.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KNOMCH016859 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 19:24:24 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040920161437.02588c08@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 16:14:58 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] stumpwork/extensive ornamentation In-Reply-To: <20040920153843.35740.qmail@web13525.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200409132141.i8DLeuhN069698@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Does anyone have a good source of Soutache Braid, or >other trims from the Antebellum U.S. period? Soutache - Cheeptrims.com CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 20 19:43:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8KNhVm8004707 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 19:43:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KNgd4d019134 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Sep 2004 17:42:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KNgWxL025190; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 17:42:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.205]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8KNgTxL025142 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 17:42:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jacquelinejbump@gmail.com) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 79so1958664rnl for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 16:42:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.82.75 with SMTP id f75mr2009057rnb; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 16:42:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.163.6 with HTTP; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 16:42:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4c5accc8040920164239c581b9@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 19:42:26 -0400 From: Kristalori History To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] quilled trim, not lace or paper In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20040920161003.02576e68@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <000701c49f0f$204fe810$6601a8c0@kimathlon> <000801c49f0f$b57906b0$6601a8c0@kimathlon> <4.3.1.2.20040920161003.02576e68@mail.frys.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I kinda decided to go with a ruched trim you can see it here: http://snipurl.com/97iy (snipped URL for length) I'm not even close to done on trim of any nature of course so I could still do quilling at the bottom and I may do some at the bottom I don't know yet. Bice On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 16:23:58 -0700, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > >\Quill"ing\, n. (a) A band of linen, muslin, or the like, fluted, > >folded, or plaited so as somewhat to resemble a row of quills. > > I should think you could do this with long round pieces of wood, for the > shaping, and a zipper foot, for the sewing. I'm guessing you could sew > across one end of the band to be quilled, side to side and from the > outside, then put a long round piece of wood (pencil, dowel rod, chop > stick, knitting needle) along the seam underneath the band, and sew across > the outside of the band again, side to side and right up against the long > round thing. Repeat for the whole length. > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > -- "Pardon me, Lady Tudor Glitz, but telling people things aren't period isn't period." Italian Ladies 2005 Calendar http://www.lulu.com/kristalori _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 20 20:34:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8L0Yb7H006705 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 20:34:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8L0Xs4d023042 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Sep 2004 18:33:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8L0XgxL053892; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 18:33:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8L0XexL053841 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 18:33:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lauren.walker@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (h0006255ec5ea.ne.client2.attbi.com[66.31.43.36]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <2004092100333501500eav0ce>; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 00:33:35 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 20:32:30 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Storage and organization From: Lauren Walker To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4c5accc8040918101768d9c2a9@mail.gmail.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you to everyone who shared their storage tips. For some reason -- well, for the reason that my "sewing room" thinks it is the dining room and my "weaving room" thinks it is the living room -- I hadn't quite accepted the realization that I need to turn at least one wall into shelves for things that are not books. Usually I just turn walls into shelves for books, I expect that, but the sewing snuck up on me! I appreciate especially the information on dampness and storage boxes. My cellar (I do have one) is too damp for me to reasonably put my be-yoo-tee-ful fabrics down there in ANYTHING, so I must figure out a shelving system for them in the living and dining rooms. I think, based on the humidity advice, this may involve shelves with baskets as drawers. So very chic a couple of years ago, too! Right now the fabric is living in a big chinese wicker trunk. This involves a kind of toy-box rummage when I want to find something. I also must express gratitude for the "no more than two projects out at a time" advice. That alone will keep things more manageable. Thank you again! I will be reviewing all your notes as I organize stuff. Lauren _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 20 21:18:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8L1I36v009441 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 21:18:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8L1HK4d026406 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Sep 2004 19:17:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8L1HFxL076354; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 19:17:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8L1HCxL076303 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 19:17:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m149.in-tch.com [216.166.191.149]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i8L1GAt24504 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 19:16:10 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <414F8217.4010402@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 19:21:27 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] stupid stupid thing not to do. References: <003601c49f43$1d783960$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <003601c49f43$1d783960$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Poor Bjarne! You've got my sympathy! (hope the books were worth it!) --sue, who by some method of Divine Providence, managed to avoid paying any customs fees at all (and I pro'ly had, oooh, $700 in books?) when she came back from England. Hmm. Come to think of it, I didn't get charged for the books I got this year (online) from the Republic of Ireland. Anyone know if there's a difference in US policy between imports and exports, as far as books go? Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > You wont believe it! > I ordered many embroidery books some time ago from Amazon. > I dont know how, but appearently i ordered the books from USA Amazon. > 2 of the books came this evening and i had to pay costums > WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa > How stupid can you be? > And there are 3 more shipments of books to come. > I thoaght i had ordered the books from England, and i therefore did not > expect to pay for costums. > > Bjarne who has enjoyed the books anyway! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 20 21:20:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8L1KGnl009572 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 21:20:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8L1JQ4d026619 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Sep 2004 19:19:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8L1JPxL077531; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 19:19:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from krwoodworks.com (krwoodworks.com [65.18.190.119]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8L1HmxL076580 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 19:17:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mara@rileyhome.net) Received: from LINDO3.rileyhome.net (pcp04325862pcs.waldrf01.md.comcast.net [68.49.7.219]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by krwoodworks.com (8.12.10/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i8L1HdXi010872 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 21:17:39 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: krwoodworks.com: krwoodwor owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20040920205130.01edc618@mail.rileyhome.net> X-Sender: mara@mail.rileyhome.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 21:16:13 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Mara Riley Subject: Re: [h-cost] Partially O.T. - Closets (WAS: Storage and organization) In-Reply-To: <414F0F0B.6070503@lavoltapress.com> References: <20040920.071648.10767.712950@webmail04.nyc.untd.com> <20040920.071648.10767.712950@webmail04.nyc.untd.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:10 AM 9/20/2004 -0700, you wrote: >I am not sure if houses are often built with attics any more. I now live >in a geographic area where there is no snow, therefore even many old >buildings have flat roofs with no attic. Likewise, this area has few >dug-in basements. However, there is often a large garage on the ground >floor of the house, typically used as a laundry room, work area for >amateur repairs and carpentry, and miscellaneous storage. And possibly a >car, but the car can be parked outside if necessary. >Apartment living is not new, but people who live in modern apartments tend >to be very concerned about closets because they can't store things in a >garage or attic. And if modern houses elsewhere are being built without >attics (maybe there have been improvements in roof design? I'm no >architect), that would explain a few things. Most of the new homes in our area are built without attics (much to my annoyance) because the joists are prefabricated in such a way that an attic is impossible. The older homes in our area have no basements (there's a high water table), but the newer ones do, and it's quite a selling feature. The sump pumps to our neighbors' houses run constantly, though. We're lucky -- our basement is fairly dry, and our sump pump only runs during heavy rain storms. My sister and her boyfriend recently bought a townhouse with a walk-in closet. The closet had one of those custom storage systems, which is quite a luxurious thing to have -- but it makes sense, in that their bedroom is so small that there wouldn't be much room for additional furniture in the bedroom, but since they have the equivalent of two dressers in the closet, the bedroom can be uncluttered and seem more roomy. We live in a fairly modest house -- the smallest in our neighborhood, I think -- and have a walk-in closet, but it's not big enough to hold all of our clothes (and neither of us is a particular clothes horse; it's just not a big closet, as walk-ins go). We're considering building a new wall in one section of the bedroom (an odd corner niche probably meant to hold a wardrobe or entertainment center) to make a second closet, so that we would have two modest sized closets. It would be a selling feature, and also would probably allow us to move all of our clothes into the closets and get rid of the dressers. But we haven't quite gotten that far -- we have to finish other house projects first, like tiling the entry and finishing the basement. (Yes, we're doing it ourselves... that's why most of my costume projects have been on hold lately.) I put down new flooring plus baseboard, crown molding, etc. and painted the walls and ceilings of two upstairs bedrooms this past winter, to serve as my office space and sewing room. Kevin gets the garage as his workspace, for woodworking and mechanical stuff. I put Ikea Ivar shelving in both rooms; it works pretty well for fabric storage. I've also got plastic file crates for my patterns, using hanging file folders with tabs to help keep everything organized. I tend to put the patterns in large envelopes with a copy of the pattern's front design taped to the front of the envelope, to avoid the problem of having to refold everything properly. -- Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 20 21:35:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8L1Z9cK010524 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 21:35:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8L1Um51027849 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Sep 2004 19:34:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8L1MvxL079346; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 19:22:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8L1MsxL079317 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 19:22:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.189] (p29.3c04.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.189]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i8L1LPW02402 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 19:21:26 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <414F8217.4010402@in-tch.com> References: <003601c49f43$1d783960$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <414F8217.4010402@in-tch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <550905E8-0B6D-11D9-8A80-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] stupid stupid thing not to do. Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 19:26:59 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO How much did you have to pay? I'm asking because I just had a potential customer from the Netherlands inquire about ordering a garment off my website. I was wondering if she will have to pay customs. Sylrog On Sep 20, 2004, at 7:21 PM, Sue Clemenger wrote: > Poor Bjarne! You've got my sympathy! > (hope the books were worth it!) > --sue, who by some method of Divine Providence, managed to avoid > paying any customs fees at all (and I pro'ly had, oooh, $700 in > books?) when she came back from England. > Hmm. Come to think of it, I didn't get charged for the books I got > this year (online) from the Republic of Ireland. Anyone know if > there's a difference in US policy between imports and exports, as far > as books go? > > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > >> You wont believe it! >> I ordered many embroidery books some time ago from Amazon. >> I dont know how, but appearently i ordered the books from USA Amazon. >> 2 of the books came this evening and i had to pay costums >> WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa >> How stupid can you be? >> And there are 3 more shipments of books to come. >> I thoaght i had ordered the books from England, and i therefore did >> not >> expect to pay for costums. >> Bjarne who has enjoyed the books anyway! > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 21 01:58:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8L5wF0h027268 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 01:58:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8L5vM4d016989 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Sep 2004 23:57:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8L5vCxL015093; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 23:57:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8L5vAxL015034 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 23:57:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from kabelfoon.nl (kf-ijss-cb01-0309.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.81.54]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46E8ABFCB9 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 07:57:00 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <414FC2B1.6020609@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 07:57:05 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] stupid stupid thing not to do. References: <003601c49f43$1d783960$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <414F8217.4010402@in-tch.com> <550905E8-0B6D-11D9-8A80-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yep! I live in the Netherlands and had some very nasty suprises. Packages with a value to 20 euro are free, but with higher values you'll end up paying like one third extra. One time I ended up paying more than I actually payed for the object because the person thought it would be better to send it with a very high value for the insurance. Greetings, Deredere Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > How much did you have to pay? I'm asking because I just had a > potential customer from the Netherlands inquire about ordering a > garment off my website. I was wondering if she will have to pay customs. > > Sylrog > > > On Sep 20, 2004, at 7:21 PM, Sue Clemenger wrote: > >> Poor Bjarne! You've got my sympathy! >> (hope the books were worth it!) >> --sue, who by some method of Divine Providence, managed to avoid >> paying any customs fees at all (and I pro'ly had, oooh, $700 in >> books?) when she came back from England. >> Hmm. Come to think of it, I didn't get charged for the books I got >> this year (online) from the Republic of Ireland. Anyone know if >> there's a difference in US policy between imports and exports, as far >> as books go? >> >> Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >> >>> You wont believe it! >>> I ordered many embroidery books some time ago from Amazon. >>> I dont know how, but appearently i ordered the books from USA Amazon. >>> 2 of the books came this evening and i had to pay costums >>> WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa >>> How stupid can you be? >>> And there are 3 more shipments of books to come. >>> I thoaght i had ordered the books from England, and i therefore did not >>> expect to pay for costums. >>> Bjarne who has enjoyed the books anyway! >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 21 02:40:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8L6eaje008355 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 02:40:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8L6dL4d019358 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Sep 2004 00:39:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8L6d6xL034390; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 00:39:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8L6d3xL034358 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 00:39:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Scourney@nwlink.com) Received: from sc (ip157.usw235.dsl-acs2.sea.iinet.com [207.202.235.157]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 804E4755F7 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 23:39:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01dc01c49fa6$1c53fbb0$0200a8c0@sc> From: "Susan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040920.071648.10767.712950@webmail04.nyc.untd.com><20040920.071648.10767.712950@webmail04.nyc.untd.com> <5.2.0.9.2.20040920205130.01edc618@mail.rileyhome.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Partially O.T. - Closets (WAS: Storage and organization) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 23:42:05 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My trouble with all of these storage suggestions is they cost money. Money that could be spent acquiring more fabric, trim, findings, patterns, books and other things I need to make more costumes. Susan in Bellevue (who lives in a place with a closet in the living room - random costumes, coats, hats, & stuff to trim more hats; first bedroom closet- costumes, plastic for a costume, vintage clothes, shoes, and hats; second bedroom closet- misc costume making supplies; third bedroom closet - more costumes and a few of my best clothes.) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 21 04:21:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8L8LNos008226 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 04:21:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8L8Ke4d001678 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Sep 2004 02:20:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8L8KXxL080043; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 02:20:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.254.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8L8KVxL079999 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 02:20:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 09:20:18 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Partially O.T. - Closets (WAS: Storage andorganization) To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A7F@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Partially O.T. - Closets (WAS: Storage andorganization) thread-index: AcSfNWYgucjvRvO1TDWO71f2PX+TZAAfRA8g Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.20 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > which leads me to as, do the majority of American homes > > have built in closets in al the rooms? > > The houses and flats I have experience of in England occasionally have > > them in one or two of the bedrooms, but more often don't have anything > > of the sort and rely on free standing cupboards/wardrobes or furniture > > that is "built in" as an addition to the room rather than built in as > > part of the structure of the house? > > My husband, who lived in England for some time, explained to > me that this has to do with a long-standing tax regulation. > Houses were taxed based on the number of rooms, and closets > counted as extra rooms (or something like that -- maybe it > was number of doors?). I don't know if the rule is still in > effect, but obviously it was in place when many English > houses were built. Since I've never heard of it, it must be as antiquated as Window Tax (a few *really* old houses stil ahve false windows or windows that were bricked up with false windows painted on to maintain appearances, because it was only the number of actual windows that were taxed), but that hasn't been in effect for a couple of hundred years, I think. If a "room tax" was a factor, then it might be something that was in effect just long enough for the lack of walk-in closets to become the accepted norm so they haven't been intorduced since. > Even if it is in effect still, It isn't. I know form the planning applications we made for our extension a few years back that there are very specific rules that apply to what counts as a "room" and waht counts as a "storage area". The "room" in the roofspace of our extension (where we store both our fabric stashes and some of the re-enactment kit) is, for official purposes, a "storage area", and the door into it from the stairs is an "access hatch" because if it were a "room" (fr people to live in) with a "door" there would be all sorts of regulations to abide by involding expensive remodelling of the stairs and provision of suitable fire-escape facilities etc. > I don't know whether it would > apply to additions or modifications made to existing houses. > Though I do recall an English friend who chose to add an > attic storage to his daughter's room talking about this rule > as well. I don't know if he was referring to anything > affecting him now, as opposed to explaining to us why the > room had no closet. It may have been those regulations dictating that it couldn't be an attic "room", but was OK as a "storage area" Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 21 04:24:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8L8OVqi009006 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 04:24:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8L8Ns4d002334 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Sep 2004 02:23:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8L8NrxL081462; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 02:23:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from alpha2.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (alpha2.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.0.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8L8NpxL081404 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 02:23:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 09:23:44 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Partially O.T. - Closets (WAS: Storage and organization) To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A80@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Partially O.T. - Closets (WAS: Storage and organization) thread-index: AcSfNWYgucjvRvO1TDWO71f2PX+TZAAfo/cQ Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.20 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Free-standing cupboards and wardrobes are > definitely the exception rather than the rule over here. > Fashions in closet space have changed over the years, but > purpose built is definitely the most common......in my area.....YMMV. > I'll show you mine the next time you come for a visit! It was partially the memory of your house that prompted me to ask. You also have that closet half way up the wall in your room, above the stairs down to your sewing room, don't you? Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 21 04:43:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8L8hq6r017500 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 04:43:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8L8hE4d006126 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Sep 2004 02:43:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8L8hAxL090389; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 02:43:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.254.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8L8h6xL090359 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 02:43:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 09:41:59 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: RE: [h-cost] stupid stupid thing not to do. To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A81@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] stupid stupid thing not to do. thread-index: AcSfeVf7PTH15UCqTkSDNa79j3S0MgAPRNBA Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.20 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > You wont believe it! > I ordered many embroidery books some time ago from Amazon. > I dont know how, but appearently i ordered the books from USA > Amazon. 2 of the books came this evening and i had to pay > costums WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa > How stupid can you be? > And there are 3 more shipments of books to come. > I thoaght i had ordered the books from England, and i > therefore did not expect to pay for costums. Poor Bjarne! I've been stung like that with items ordered from the U.S. too, which is why I seldom do it since any "bargain" price stops being a bargain if you have to pay half the amount again in customs and post-office charges if the post office decides (apparently at random) that they are going to present the package to customs for assessment. The annoying thing is that some parcels get through without the customs process taking effect and some get "caught" and charged heavily for. Somehow, not realizing you were orfering form the U.S. makes the whole thing worse - you have my sympathy Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 21 06:52:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8LAqx7r004325 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 06:52:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LAqA4d014348 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Sep 2004 04:52:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LApwxL051686; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 04:51:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from newmail.logical.net (newmail.logical.net [209.23.116.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LAptxM051652 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 04:51:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from homeec@telenet.net) Received: from computername (ip-208-20-92-76.modem.logical.net [208.20.92.76]) by newmail.logical.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8LApnYA026292 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 06:51:54 -0400 Message-ID: <005701c49fc9$01529a10$4c5c14d0@computername> From: "Home Ec" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Partially O.T. - Closets (WAS: Storage and organization) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 06:51:49 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >> which leads me to as, do the majority of American homes have built in >> closets in al the rooms? > > Generally, yes, in the bedrooms at least, and sometimes in other rooms as > well. Some are shallow, just a few feet sectioned off the length of a > wall, with sliding doors to provide access across the breadth of it. > Others are like little rooms, with doors -- these are "walk-in" closets. (snipped) > Freestanding wardrobes are almost unheard of here -- they're considered > more decorative than practical. They're a must in England. > --Robin > Hurray for closets! In buying my large and scrumptious house, which was a Dutch gable built in 1835 and added to at least 4 times, I love the closets. Two of the 4 bedrooms of my part of the house (there is a separate apartment), have small closets, and only one of the upstairs one does. But what it does have are 2 huge walk in closets side by side, as a buffer between the dining room and other living space and the bedroom bathroom addition space. They open onto that hallway, so they are accessible - there are hallway space on either side of them, which has most glass doors that open into the dining room area = in effect, they fill in the center of a U. Plenty of access, plenty of storage, plenty of sound deadening. One of the nicest designs! And makes up for the smallish closets in the bedrooms. Of course, I am actually using the walk in closet upstairs, and one of those bedrooms too, as my fabric and other stuff storage. And the other upstairs bedroom as my sewing room. All of this with an about 20' or more living room with a fireplace, and hardwood floors in every room. And the den, and the 2 rooms that are just small entryways but great for storing more stuff (one has the washing machine, etc. and the screened in porch. and the double garage with an attic. too. Oh yeah,the house has stairs going to the very solid attic that has storage space (I haven't been able to afford to insulate it yet, and I actually hate to lose the very solid floor as storage space. Let's not forget the maze of the basement rooms. All of this and really nice neighbors, too. I love living in a rural area! Rowena _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 21 06:58:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8LAwLnG004344 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 06:58:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LAve4d014648 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Sep 2004 04:57:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LAvdxL054432; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 04:57:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from outbound28-2.lax.untd.com (outbound-mail.lax.untd.com [64.136.28.164]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8LAvZxL054325 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 04:57:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pagansoccermom@netzero.net) Received: from outbound28-2.lax.untd.com (smtp02.lax.untd.com [10.130.24.122]) by smtpout03.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABAXACJEASYX4W2 for (sender ); Tue, 21 Sep 2004 03:57:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 10664 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2004 10:57:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO susyhp) (63.188.16.135) by smtp02.lax.untd.com with SMTP; 21 Sep 2004 10:57:06 -0000 Message-ID: <000a01c49fc9$bb9c44c0$8710bc3f@susyhp> From: "Susy" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Storage and organization Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 06:57:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ContentStamp: 12:6:1687263671 X-UNTD-OriginStamp: HdyqQQTNgAkMx9lp68PFujYm/6Ua55ofLNT52AHiN6wbFu+RSENbvO/QTiEb4CCq X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lauren I, too, use the livingroom/kitchen as my sewing area in a small ranch house with three children and five cats. I have chosen to use an armoir in which I added numerous shelves. I am able to fold my fabrics and place them where I can see them on the shelves and I have acquired several shallow plastic drawer units, at the dreaded Walmart, which I keep my notions in. The clear drawers make it simple to see what is inside, while the shallow depth prevents the toybox syndrome. I also have a few clear rubbermaid containers that are about twice the size of a shoe box that stack nicely for ribbon spools. I have thought about mounting a bar on the inside of the door to accomodate the spools, it would allow more room for fabric... I think I'll need to try it. It's so easy to forget the available space on the inside of doors, good for pinup boards (lightweight ceiling tile covered in fabric), or magnetic surface (flashing from homeimprovement store), hooks or spool spindles, hanging shoe organizers (I use them in the kids' rooms for Barbies and things), etc. A look through garage storage items usually gives me lots of good ideas for stashing my crafting stuff. I also have a cabinet dedicated to crafting, using much the same ideas. It sure beats searching all over the house and giving up only to go buy something I know I already have ... somewhere. Susy > Thank you to everyone who shared their storage tips. For some reason -- > well, for the reason that my "sewing room" thinks it is the dining room > and > my "weaving room" thinks it is the living room -- I hadn't quite accepted > the realization that I need to turn at least one wall into shelves for > things that are not books. Usually I just turn walls into shelves for > books, > I expect that, but the sewing snuck up on me! I appreciate especially the > information on dampness and storage boxes. My cellar (I do have one) is > too > damp for me to reasonably put my be-yoo-tee-ful fabrics down there in > ANYTHING, so I must figure out a shelving system for them in the living > and > dining rooms. I think, based on the humidity advice, this may involve > shelves with baskets as drawers. So very chic a couple of years ago, too! > Right now the fabric is living in a big chinese wicker trunk. This > involves > a kind of toy-box rummage when I want to find something. > > I also must express gratitude for the "no more than two projects out at a > time" advice. That alone will keep things more manageable. > > Thank you again! I will be reviewing all your notes as I organize stuff. > Lauren > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 21 08:46:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8LCkWFQ004971 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 08:46:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LCjn4d023293 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Sep 2004 06:45:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LCjdxL017712; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 06:45:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8LCjaxL017631 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 06:45:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m2.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABAXAJUFA4SD9R2 for (sender ); Tue, 21 Sep 2004 05:44:53 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCsT2939zVl+8zox5hVIpn3xMlPo1By+52Q== Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id J727ELY6; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 05:44:36 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 07:27:45 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Partially O.T. - Closets (WAS: Storage and organization) Message-ID: <20040921.072746.-369235.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 8-17,19-27 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-ContentStamp: 10:5:2478432976 X-MAIL-INFO: 09e70aeb02ce7ee70302ba238f474b0aab23a74bdbfb034be3ba0e5a8a5a83079f87775a7eda7e9bbbbe179f5ebbdf77a39fdadf6edb2adf3afaaacab3ca63f36b8a93ca4f274f4a6a8b2b6b5f6a0f93436b270f476e0ab3277fae5aae1bfe4e7f0e021bbfb39fb32b03f78f7f0e23cfdbdafada9aca8a9aca73b7ca73b7cfa787ef773b7e6b7ebbd3979f5e7eabcb270fce0f57d7e757d71bfed71b1e236f7f672fbf6703032f8f8ffb8f5fc30b6b1b83baa73b9bcf3b87879b3737be X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: h-costume@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You are correct! Although I haven't gone up there in years.....probably means that most of the stuff up there isn't that important to my survival and it needs a good clean-out! My house has a 'coat closet/guest closet' by the front door, a linen closet in the full bathroom, two small closets plus the wall storage in my room, one medium bi-fold door type closet in the middle bedroom, a larger bifold door type closet in the main bedroom, and a half sunk basement area which is half living space (my sewing area) and half storage space (which you were such a wonder bunny to tidy up when you were here!). And then there's the garage........ 8-) Karen On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 09:23:44 +0100 Teddy writes: > It was partially the memory of your house that prompted me to > ask. You also have that closet half way up the wall in your room, above > the stairs down to your sewing room, don't you? > > Teddy > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ________________________________________________________________ Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 21 09:52:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8LDqUSc009653 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 09:52:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LDpo4d028360 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Sep 2004 07:51:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LDpexL059409; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 07:51:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LDpXxL059356 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 07:51:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.100]) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1C9l3L-0003Ng-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 06:51:31 -0700 Message-ID: <415031EF.9050907@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 06:51:43 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] stupid stupid thing not to do. References: <003601c49f43$1d783960$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <003601c49f43$1d783960$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That is rotten! How strange too. I often order books from Germany, and don't get charged extra. Obviously if you can get them from England it would be cheaper, but if you ever must buy from the US, I wonder if someone here ordered it and then sent it on as a private package if you would get charged. Sg (who usually follows rules, but really!) Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >You wont believe it! >I ordered many embroidery books some time ago from Amazon. >I dont know how, but appearently i ordered the books from USA Amazon. >2 of the books came this evening and i had to pay costums >WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa >How stupid can you be? >And there are 3 more shipments of books to come. >I thoaght i had ordered the books from England, and i therefore did not >expect to pay for costums. > >Bjarne who has enjoyed the books anyway! > > > > > > > >Leif og Bjarne Drews >www.my-drewscostumes.dk > >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 21 09:55:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8LDtUPO009674 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 09:55:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LDsb4d028588 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Sep 2004 07:54:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LDsWxL061382; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 07:54:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LDsNxL061252 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 07:54:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.183] (p23.3c04.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.183]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i8LDqiW11399 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 07:52:44 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <414FC2B1.6020609@kabelfoon.nl> References: <003601c49f43$1d783960$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <414F8217.4010402@in-tch.com> <550905E8-0B6D-11D9-8A80-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> <414FC2B1.6020609@kabelfoon.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <4A3946D8-0BD6-11D9-9B97-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] stupid stupid thing not to do. Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 07:58:18 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Do you have any idea how much 20 euro is in US dollars? And does it mean that if I put a low value to the garment the customer won't have to pay customs? On Sep 20, 2004, at 11:57 PM, Deredere Galbraith wrote: > Yep! > I live in the Netherlands and had some very nasty suprises. > Packages with a value to 20 euro are free, but with higher values > you'll end up paying like one third extra. > One time I ended up paying more than I actually payed for the object > because the person thought it would be better to send it with a very > high value for the insurance. > > Greetings, > Deredere > > Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > >> How much did you have to pay? I'm asking because I just had a >> potential customer from the Netherlands inquire about ordering a >> garment off my website. I was wondering if she will have to pay >> customs. >> >> Sylrog >> >> >> On Sep 20, 2004, at 7:21 PM, Sue Clemenger wrote: >> >>> Poor Bjarne! You've got my sympathy! >>> (hope the books were worth it!) >>> --sue, who by some method of Divine Providence, managed to avoid >>> paying any customs fees at all (and I pro'ly had, oooh, $700 in >>> books?) when she came back from England. >>> Hmm. Come to think of it, I didn't get charged for the books I got >>> this year (online) from the Republic of Ireland. Anyone know if >>> there's a difference in US policy between imports and exports, as >>> far as books go? >>> >>> Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >>> >>>> You wont believe it! >>>> I ordered many embroidery books some time ago from Amazon. >>>> I dont know how, but appearently i ordered the books from USA >>>> Amazon. >>>> 2 of the books came this evening and i had to pay costums >>>> WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa >>>> How stupid can you be? >>>> And there are 3 more shipments of books to come. >>>> I thoaght i had ordered the books from England, and i therefore did >>>> not >>>> expect to pay for costums. >>>> Bjarne who has enjoyed the books anyway! >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> h-costume mailing list >>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 21 10:00:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8LE0So2009715 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 10:00:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LDxb4d029081 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Sep 2004 07:59:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LDxZxL064904; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 07:59:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LDxUxL064829 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 07:59:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f36.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.54]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id DA8395EE0A1 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 15:59:22 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <002c01c49fe3$381b6ad0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <003601c49f43$1d783960$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711><414F8217.4010402@in-tch.com> <550905E8-0B6D-11D9-8A80-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] stupid stupid thing not to do. Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 15:59:31 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO For two books, Painting with a Needle (Chinese Embroidery) and Teckniques of Chinese Embroidery i had to pay 150 kr. wich is about 22 dollars. 4 more books are on its way :-( Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sylvia Rognstad" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 3:26 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] stupid stupid thing not to do. > How much did you have to pay? I'm asking because I just had a > potential customer from the Netherlands inquire about ordering a > garment off my website. I was wondering if she will have to pay > customs. > > Sylrog > > > On Sep 20, 2004, at 7:21 PM, Sue Clemenger wrote: > > > Poor Bjarne! You've got my sympathy! > > (hope the books were worth it!) > > --sue, who by some method of Divine Providence, managed to avoid > > paying any customs fees at all (and I pro'ly had, oooh, $700 in > > books?) when she came back from England. > > Hmm. Come to think of it, I didn't get charged for the books I got > > this year (online) from the Republic of Ireland. Anyone know if > > there's a difference in US policy between imports and exports, as far > > as books go? > > > > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > > >> You wont believe it! > >> I ordered many embroidery books some time ago from Amazon. > >> I dont know how, but appearently i ordered the books from USA Amazon. > >> 2 of the books came this evening and i had to pay costums > >> WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa > >> How stupid can you be? > >> And there are 3 more shipments of books to come. > >> I thoaght i had ordered the books from England, and i therefore did > >> not > >> expect to pay for costums. > >> Bjarne who has enjoyed the books anyway! > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 21 10:06:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8LE6TPQ009764 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 10:06:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LE5j4d029661 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Sep 2004 08:05:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LE5hxL069384; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 08:05:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from oldntserver.stoneage.mglarc.com ([212.17.54.27]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LE5YxL069151 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 08:05:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lstrid@mglarc.com) Received: by rfc1918.space.should.not.be.used.on.publicips with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) id ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 15:05:22 +0100 Message-ID: <87A506E53AFF4C4CB2C565044BA209E743DADE@rfc1918.space.should.not.be.used.on.publicips> From: Lena Strid To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] stupid stupid thing not to do. Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 15:05:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO 20 euro = ca 24.50 US dollar. /Lena -----Original Message----- From: Sylvia Rognstad [mailto:sylvia@ntw.net] Sent: 21 September 2004 14:58 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] stupid stupid thing not to do. Do you have any idea how much 20 euro is in US dollars? And does it mean that if I put a low value to the garment the customer won't have to pay customs? On Sep 20, 2004, at 11:57 PM, Deredere Galbraith wrote: > Yep! > I live in the Netherlands and had some very nasty suprises. > Packages with a value to 20 euro are free, but with higher values > you'll end up paying like one third extra. > One time I ended up paying more than I actually payed for the object > because the person thought it would be better to send it with a very > high value for the insurance. > > Greetings, > Deredere > > Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > >> How much did you have to pay? I'm asking because I just had a >> potential customer from the Netherlands inquire about ordering a >> garment off my website. I was wondering if she will have to pay >> customs. >> >> Sylrog >> >> >> On Sep 20, 2004, at 7:21 PM, Sue Clemenger wrote: >> >>> Poor Bjarne! You've got my sympathy! >>> (hope the books were worth it!) >>> --sue, who by some method of Divine Providence, managed to avoid >>> paying any customs fees at all (and I pro'ly had, oooh, $700 in >>> books?) when she came back from England. >>> Hmm. Come to think of it, I didn't get charged for the books I got >>> this year (online) from the Republic of Ireland. Anyone know if >>> there's a difference in US policy between imports and exports, as >>> far as books go? >>> >>> Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >>> >>>> You wont believe it! >>>> I ordered many embroidery books some time ago from Amazon. >>>> I dont know how, but appearently i ordered the books from USA >>>> Amazon. >>>> 2 of the books came this evening and i had to pay costums >>>> WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa >>>> How stupid can you be? >>>> And there are 3 more shipments of books to come. >>>> I thoaght i had ordered the books from England, and i therefore did >>>> not >>>> expect to pay for costums. >>>> Bjarne who has enjoyed the books anyway! >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> h-costume mailing list >>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ================================================= Margaret Gowen & Co. Ltd. Archaeological Consultants & Project Managers 2 Killiney View Tel: 01-2300433 Albert Road Lower Fax: 01-2300865 Glenageary e-mail: archaeology@mglarc.com Co. Dublin website: http://www.mglarc.com ================================================= CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email is private and confidential and may contain legally privileged information. If you are not named above as an addressee it may be unlawful for you to read, copy, distribute, disclose or otherwise use the information in this email. If you are not the intended recipient of this email please contact our systems administrator. Thank you. NOTE Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company or its associated companies unless otherwise specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 21 10:21:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8LEL7cW009814 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 10:21:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LEFF4d000674 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Sep 2004 08:15:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LEFAxL076516; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 08:15:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com ([199.170.202.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LEEcxL076160 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 08:14:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i8LEaWTP052970 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 10:36:32 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: (from sfarmer@localhost) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3/Submit) id i8LEaW3u052969 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 10:36:32 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 10:36:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Farmer Message-Id: <200409211436.i8LEaW3u052969@sabre.goldsword.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] stupid stupid thing not to do. In-Reply-To: <4A3946D8-0BD6-11D9-9B97-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Do you have any idea how much 20 euro is in US dollars? And does it > mean that if I put a low value to the garment the customer won't have > to pay customs? When my son went to Germany this summer it was about 1.20 euro to one dollar -- or was that $1.20 to 1 euro. (I hate figuring out exchange rates!0 Susan > > Yep! > > I live in the Netherlands and had some very nasty suprises. > > Packages with a value to 20 euro are free, but with higher values > > you'll end up paying like one third extra. > > One time I ended up paying more than I actually payed for the object > > because the person thought it would be better to send it with a very > > high value for the insurance. > > > > Greetings, > > Deredere > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 21 10:44:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8LEi8Oq009933 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 10:44:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LEhS4d003585 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Sep 2004 08:43:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LEhLxL098415; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 08:43:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LEglxL097837 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 08:42:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gia_gavino@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.117 ([204.127.197.117]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <2004092114423001300a30uge>; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 14:42:30 +0000 Received: from [24.16.244.181] by 204.127.197.117; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 14:42:27 +0000 From: gia_gavino@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Partially O.T. - Closets (WAS: Storage andorganization) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 14:42:27 +0000 Message-Id: <092120041442.14751.41503DD2000B64A50000399F2200734076010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Jul 16 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: Z2lhX2dhdmlub0Bjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, there were room taxes and window taxes. I've got the two volumes (huge books!) of the proclamations of the Tudor and Stuart. And a few of the books I have on Irish history has some information about this. Those taxes were repealed, but I don't remember what year... -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares > > My husband, who lived in England for some time, explained to > > me that this has to do with a long-standing tax regulation. > > Houses were taxed based on the number of rooms, and closets > > counted as extra rooms (or something like that -- maybe it > > was number of doors?). I don't know if the rule is still in > > effect, but obviously it was in place when many English > > houses were built. > > Since I've never heard of it, it must be as antiquated as Window Tax (a > few *really* old houses stil ahve false windows or windows that were > bricked up with false windows painted on to maintain appearances, > because it was only the number of actual windows that were taxed), but > that hasn't been in effect for a couple of hundred years, I think. > > If a "room tax" was a factor, then it might be something that was in > effect just long enough for the lack of walk-in closets to become the > accepted norm so they haven't been intorduced since. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 21 10:50:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8LEolgE009980 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 10:50:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LEo04d004223 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Sep 2004 08:50:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LEnuxL003791; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 08:49:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web53103.mail.yahoo.com (web53103.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.206]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8LEnoxL003660 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 08:49:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from smnco37@yahoo.co.uk) Message-ID: <20040921144937.90130.qmail@web53103.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [82.112.138.150] by web53103.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 15:49:37 BST Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 15:49:37 +0100 (BST) From: julian wilson Subject: [h-cost] stupid stupid thing not to do. - EEC Customs' Duties To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A81@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Er, hasn't anyone told you people that the European Union - aka France & germany in control of the Brussels Bureaucracy - is conducting a Trade War against the USA? According to the States Of Jersey Director of Customs & Excise, EU Customs' Duties are now being increased on US goods, on a sliding scale which is set to increase months by month - until Brussels gets whatever p-articular concessions it is seeking from the US Government at this time. Even the British Channel Islands are affected by this - because - althought we are not members of the EEC, having opted to "stay-out" back in 1976; - in that year our misbegotten local politicians did agree that our tarfiffs of Customs Duties should mirror those of the EEC [with the understanding that the funds raised in this way were not paid to the UK Mainland Treasury, but remained in the independent Treasuries of the Islands]. I discovered this when a member of our Companie was charged 14% Customs Duty on a pair of medieval shoes she'd ordered from a specialist outlet in the USA; and I went to enquire why this should be, - since I'd ordered re-enactment clothes from the USA previous to her order - and not been charged any Customs Duty on them. And in case any of you are wondering why this might be, it is partly a consequence of the EU Politicians drive towards Federalism to create a United States of Europe - which most of it's ordinary inhabitants don't seem to want [not those I've spoken to in my years of working over there, anyway!] . And partly - as Germany if - through her appointed brussesl bureacrats - the largest single benefitor from the EU Budget - to fill the huge hole in the German FinanzMinisterium's budgetary long-term planning, caused, at bottom, by the return of the ex-East Germany to democracy as part of the new re-united Nation. So those of you living in Europe, - wanting to order re-enactment kit from US suppliers at the most competitive prices - are now going to find yourselves part of a largely-unpublicised commercial war against the US being waged from Brussels, by non-elected French and German EEC bureaucrats doing the behest of their own National Goivernments. All this is of course - totally against the spirit of the intended European Free Trade Area as originally "sold" to the various Publics - when the proponents were promising that the Brussels Govenrment "would not interfere in the internal affairs of Member States". In Service, Julian, very cynical, in "olde" Jersey. Teddy wrote: > You wont believe it! > I ordered many embroidery books some time ago from Amazon. I dont know how, but appearently i ordered the books from USA Amazon. 2 of the books came this evening and i had to pay costums {Customs Duty?]WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa > How stupid can you be? And there are 3 more shipments of books to come. I thoaght i had ordered the books from England, and i therefore did not expect to pay for costums.{Customs Duty?] Poor Bjarne! I've been stung like that with items ordered from the U.S. too, which is why I seldom do it since any "bargain" price stops being a bargain if you have to pay half the amount again in customs and post-office charges if the post office decides (apparently at random) that they are going to present the package to customs for assessment. The annoying thing is that some parcels get through without the customs process taking effect and some get "caught" and charged heavily for. --------------------------------- ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 21 10:52:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8LEqV5f009990 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 10:52:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LEpo4d004414 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Sep 2004 08:51:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LEpjxL005259; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 08:51:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web53109.mail.yahoo.com (web53109.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8LEpWxL005053 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 08:51:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from smnco37@yahoo.co.uk) Message-ID: <20040921144854.35805.qmail@web53109.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [82.112.138.150] by web53109.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 15:48:54 BST Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 15:48:54 +0100 (BST) From: julian wilson Subject: [h-cost] stupid stupid thing not to do. - EEC Customs' Duties To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A81@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Er, hasn't anyone told you people that the European Union - aka France & germany in control of the Brussels Bureaucracy - is conducting a Trade War against the USA? According to the States Of Jersey Director of Customs & Excise, EU Customs' Duties are now being increased on US goods, on a sliding scale which is set to increase months by month - until Brussels gets whatever p-articular concessions it is seeking from the US Government at this time. Even the British Channel Islands are affected by this - because - althought we are not members of the EEC, having opted to "stay-out" back in 1976; - in that year our misbegotten local politicians did agree that our tarfiffs of Customs Duties should mirror those of the EEC [with the understanding that the funds raised in this way were not paid to the UK Mainland Treasury, but remained in the independent Treasuries of the Islands]. I discovered this when a member of our Companie was charged 14% Customs Duty on a pair of medieval shoes she'd ordered from a specialist outlet in the USA; and I went to enquire why this should be, - since I'd ordered re-enactment clothes from the USA previous to her order - and not been charged any Customs Duty on them. And in case any of you are wondering why this might be, it is partly a consequence of the EU Politicians drive towards Federalism to create a United States of Europe - which most of it's ordinary inhabitants don't seem to want [not those I've spoken to in my years of working over there, anyway!] . And partly - as Germany if - through her appointed brussesl bureacrats - the largest single benefitor from the EU Budget - to fill the huge hole in the German FinanzMinisterium's budgetary long-term planning, caused, at bottom, by the return of the ex-East Germany to democracy as part of the new re-united Nation. So those of you living in Europe, - wanting to order re-enactment kit from US suppliers at the most competitive prices - are now going to find yourselves part of a largely-unpublicised commercial war against the US being waged from Brussels, by non-elected French and German EEC bureaucrats doing the behest of their own National Goivernments. All this is of course - totally against the spirit of the intended European Free Trade Area as originally "sold" to the various Publics - when the proponents were promising that the Brussels Govenrment "would not interfere in the internal affairs of Member States". In Service, Julian, very cynical, in "olde" Jersey. Teddy wrote: > You wont believe it! > I ordered many embroidery books some time ago from Amazon. I dont know how, but appearently i ordered the books from USA Amazon. 2 of the books came this evening and i had to pay costums {Customs Duty?]WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa > How stupid can you be? And there are 3 more shipments of books to come. I thoaght i had ordered the books from England, and i therefore did not expect to pay for costums.{Customs Duty?] Poor Bjarne! I've been stung like that with items ordered from the U.S. too, which is why I seldom do it since any "bargain" price stops being a bargain if you have to pay half the amount again in customs and post-office charges if the post office decides (apparently at random) that they are going to present the package to customs for assessment. The annoying thing is that some parcels get through without the customs process taking effect and some get "caught" and charged heavily for. --------------------------------- ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 21 11:06:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8LF6TQW010088 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 11:06:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LF0X4d005464 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Sep 2004 09:00:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LF0TxL012517; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 09:00:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LF0KxL012338 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 09:00:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m182.in-tch.com [216.166.191.182]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i8LEx7t21827 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 08:59:07 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <415042FA.40104@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 09:04:26 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] stupid stupid thing not to do. References: <003601c49f43$1d783960$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <414F8217.4010402@in-tch.com> <550905E8-0B6D-11D9-8A80-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> <414FC2B1.6020609@kabelfoon.nl> <4A3946D8-0BD6-11D9-9B97-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> In-Reply-To: <4A3946D8-0BD6-11D9-9B97-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Somewhere between $30 and $40, I think. Exchange rate fluctuates a bit. When I was over there a couple of years ago (hi, Teddy! ), the British pound and the euro were both roughly equivalent to $1.80 in US currency, so I was guesstimating the cost by doubling the sticker price to get it in dollars. And I'm with SaraGrace...more than willing to send packages for folks. --sue Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > Do you have any idea how much 20 euro is in US dollars? And does it > mean that if I put a low value to the garment the customer won't have to > pay customs? > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 21 11:10:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8LFAetl010128 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 11:10:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LF9n4d006446 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Sep 2004 09:09:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LF9kxL020488; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 09:09:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web53102.mail.yahoo.com (web53102.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.205]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8LF9ixL020370 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 09:09:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from smnco37@yahoo.co.uk) Message-ID: <20040921150930.29772.qmail@web53102.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [82.112.138.150] by web53102.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 16:09:30 BST Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 16:09:30 +0100 (BST) From: julian wilson Subject: Re: [h-cost] stupid stupid thing not to do. To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <200409211436.i8LEaW3u052969@sabre.goldsword.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO According to The States of Jersey's Customs & Excise Dept. - there is a very long EEC Customs' Duty List of all imported products, recommending a certain % of the value be chgarged as duty when imported from outside the EU. According the the local, [Jersey] Customs Officer with whom I held converse, most EU Member States Customs Depts.also apply a threshold value in deciding whether or not they demand payment of any Duty assessed. This threshold level is apparently set just above the point at which the costs of collecting the Duty-liable are more than the value of the Duty assessed. Obviously this threshold point will vary from Country to Country within the EU - since some of their bureaucracies are more efficient, - and therefore less -expensive - than others. YIS, Julian, in "olde" Jersey Susan Farmer wrote: SNIP And does it mean that if I put a low value to the garment the customer won't have to pay customs? SNIP AND > > Yep! > > I live in the Netherlands and had some very nasty suprises. > > Packages with a value to 20 euro are free, but with higher values you'll end up paying like one third extra. > > One time I ended up paying more than I actually payed for the object because the person thought it would be better to send it with a very high value for the insurance. > > --------------------------------- ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 21 11:20:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8LFKhWV010190 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 11:20:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LFJt4d007631 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Sep 2004 09:19:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LFJpxL029370; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 09:19:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LFJNxL028899 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 09:19:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f36.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.54]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 647E22628BD for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 17:19:15 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <002501c49fee$5eefe770$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 17:19:21 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] exhibition on the mannor X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. I have arranged everything to travel to Gammel Estrup on friday. The curator of the museum asked me if i could take some informations about my work with me + a picture of myself for the press. Should that be some photos of the work in progress and some text? Could i use the picture i have on the frontpage of my homepage where i am in costume? Or should it be a modern picture? Any help greatly apreciated. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 21 11:30:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8LFUqaP010249 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 11:30:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LFU74d009101 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Sep 2004 09:30:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LFT5xL037403; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 09:29:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web53109.mail.yahoo.com (web53109.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.212]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8LFRlxL036143 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 09:27:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from smnco37@yahoo.co.uk) Message-ID: <20040921152738.49938.qmail@web53109.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [82.112.138.150] by web53109.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 16:27:38 BST Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 16:27:38 +0100 (BST) From: julian wilson To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <550905E8-0B6D-11D9-8A80-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] How much Duty did you have to pay? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The base-Customs Duty on clothing from outside the EEC is 14%. According to our local Customs & Excise Dept., the surcharge at the moment is an extra 10% on this; and next month it is appranetly due to rise by another 5%. By contrast, however, I am advised that medieval weapons and arrmour only have a EU-recommended basic Duty of 1.5%. National Governments of EEC-Member States are of course not going to object to this "FuhrerBefehl" from Brussels, - as this increases their own Customs & Excise Receipts. [And this is the a part of the sort of thing our Grandfathers and Fathers fought 2 World Wars against Germany and it's Allies to prevent!!] It's just us poor ordinary folk who will be paying this higher "stealth Tax"! Julian, in "olde" Jersey. Sylvia Rognstad wrote: How much did you have to pay? I'm asking because I just had a potential customer from the Netherlands inquire about ordering a garment off my website. I was wondering if she will have to pay customs. Sylrog --------------------------------- ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 21 12:44:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8LGicUY010750 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 12:44:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LGhb4d019827 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Sep 2004 10:43:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LGh8xL004958; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 10:43:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LGg2xL003880 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 10:42:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lauren.walker@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (h0006255ec5ea.ne.client2.attbi.com[66.31.43.36]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2004092116415501100isebme>; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 16:41:55 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 12:40:51 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Storage and organization From: Lauren Walker To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000a01c49fc9$bb9c44c0$8710bc3f@susyhp> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Susy the pagan soccer mom wrote: > spindles, hanging shoe organizers (I use them in the kids' rooms for Barbies > and things), etc. A look through garage storage items usually gives me lots > of good ideas for stashing my crafting stuff. I also have a cabinet > dedicated to crafting, using much the same ideas. It sure beats searching > all over the house and giving up only to go buy something I know I already > have ... somewhere. The shoe organizers reminded me of my late brother, who made various canvas hanging pocket-organizers for everything. He could set grommets, and put in 3/4 inch grommets on the corners of all these canvas things, and hung them up using metal push pins all over his loft. Everything from a pen-and-paper organizer over his phone-desk to a magazine pocket on the back of the bathroom door, made of canvas with various colorful mesh pockets and corner grommets to hold them up. And since they were canvas, he could just keep making them! Whenever I sew I miss him. He could make anything! Lauren _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 21 12:55:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8LGtqOT010789 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 12:55:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LGt04d021334 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Sep 2004 10:55:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LGswxL015631; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 10:54:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com (outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com [64.136.20.164]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8LGsgxL015355 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 10:54:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from outbound21-sr.nyc.untd.com (webmail24.nyc.untd.com [10.140.30.166]) by smtpout04.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABAXAZFVAE5QXQS for (sender ); Tue, 21 Sep 2004 09:54:11 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCsT2939zVl+8DwDsjr8vkCgTGjWmjMCBHg== Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by webmail24.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id J73MM5V2; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 09:53:23 PDT Received: from [4.158.21.219] by webmail24.nyc.untd.com with HTTP: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 16:52:56 GMT X-Originating-IP: [4.158.21.219] Mime-Version: 1.0 From: "seamstrix@juno.com" Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 16:52:56 GMT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Robin Hood hat? X-Mailer: WebMail Version 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <20040921.095323.23797.732291@webmail24.nyc.untd.com> X-ContentStamp: 5:2:1633822092 X-MAIL-INFO: 2987778313ba4f872a13fa9f5ebbdf77a39fdadf6edb2adf3afaaacab3ca63f36b8a93ca4f274f4a6a8b2b6b5f6a0f93436b270f2e6e170f57eb0be73fe77a6f2fb347e723fb23d76702af2f0e67a747972ffba7bb2e773ffbef4bca4b37cfd3efaa1337f73f6b3faf2a1e5eefaa9fb76e27eb27cee7b3cee77f1be77f1bb7da8ac3939a4f2f4f6a9e8e6b5f4fa3fefba7baa73b5a873b5a37cf5a378f9f7eef07bef7072a2abe5e5edb5e0e7b4e2f3763fada9a4ab79a8a8a4a73738b X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The style is known as 'bec de corbin' or 'crow's beak' and was popular in the 1400's along with the houpelande. You can make it by measuring your head and drawing out a triangle that will fit over your head on some scrap fabric (that has some body- felt is good). Round off the top point and sew along the top edge. Try it on your head, folding up the back part until it fits comfortably. You may need to try several mock-ups before you hit on just the right proportion, but it's a simple pattern so you can whip them out in just a few minutes. Once you get the shape and proportion right, you can make it of finer fabrics and even line it so that the lining shows at the turned up back. Karen -- Lauren Walker wrote: Hi, Can anyone recommend a good pattern for the sort of pointed cap that is so often drawn on Robin Hood? The Errol Flynn Robin definitely wore such a one. I don't even know what they're called other than Robin Hood caps. Sort of a right triangle with the right angle as the peak of the crown, the short side as the back, and the hypoteneuse as the opening for the head. And a feather! Thanks! Lauren _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________ Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 21 12:59:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8LGxBgk010798 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 12:59:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LGwU4d021674 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Sep 2004 10:58:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LGvQxL017525; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 10:57:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LGaSxL098655 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 10:36:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lauren.walker@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (h0006255ec5ea.ne.client2.attbi.com[66.31.43.36]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <200409211636210160067btje>; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 16:36:21 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 12:35:18 -0400 From: Lauren Walker To: h-costume Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Robin Hood hat? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Can anyone recommend a good pattern for the sort of pointed cap that is so often drawn on Robin Hood? The Errol Flynn Robin definitely wore such a one. I don't even know what they're called other than Robin Hood caps. Sort of a right triangle with the right angle as the peak of the crown, the short side as the back, and the hypoteneuse as the opening for the head. And a feather! Thanks! Lauren _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 21 13:01:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8LH1eLa010814 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 13:01:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LGxg4d021790 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Sep 2004 10:59:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LGwbxL018574; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 10:58:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.204]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LGu5xL016559 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 10:56:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jacquelinejbump@gmail.com) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 78so4350532rnl for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 09:56:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.99.13 with SMTP id w13mr3863703rnb; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 09:56:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.14.59 with HTTP; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 09:56:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4c5accc8040921095627b9816d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 12:56:00 -0400 From: Kristalori History To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Robin Hood hat? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Simplicity 7761 which is a sort of "men in tights" sort of ren faire pattern has a hat included that is exactly the hat you are speaking of. http://www.simplicity.com/assets/7761/7761.jpg On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 12:35:18 -0400, Lauren Walker wrote: > Hi, > Can anyone recommend a good pattern for the sort of pointed cap that is so > often drawn on Robin Hood? The Errol Flynn Robin definitely wore such a one. > I don't even know what they're called other than Robin Hood caps. Sort of a > right triangle with the right angle as the peak of the crown, the short side > as the back, and the hypoteneuse as the opening for the head. And a feather! > Thanks! > Lauren > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > -- "Pardon me, Lady Tudor Glitz, but telling people things aren't period isn't period." Italian Ladies 2005 Calendar http://www.lulu.com/kristalori _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 21 13:02:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8LH2QMe010819 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 13:02:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LH1g4d022106 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Sep 2004 11:01:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LH1dxL021574; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 11:01:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web53101.mail.yahoo.com (web53101.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.204]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8LGw3xL018053 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 10:58:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from smnco37@yahoo.co.uk) Message-ID: <20040921165757.93421.qmail@web53101.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [82.112.138.150] by web53101.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 17:57:57 BST Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 17:57:57 +0100 (BST) From: julian wilson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Robin Hood hat? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Dear Lauren, either The Tudor Shoppe or Historic Enterprises used to offer this Hat-Design ready-made, very cheaply. In Service, Julian, in "olde" Jersey. Lauren Walker wrote: Hi, Can anyone recommend a good pattern for the sort of pointed cap that is so often drawn on Robin Hood? The Errol Flynn Robin definitely wore such a one. SNIP Thanks! Lauren --------------------------------- ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 21 13:05:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8LH5qtc010835 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 13:05:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LH564d022556 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Sep 2004 11:05:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LH53xL024705; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 11:05:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from indirectobject.com (066-241-084-045.bus.ashlandfiber.net [66.241.84.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LH4ExL024030 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 11:04:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rreed@indirectobject.com) Message-Id: <200409211704.i8LH4ExL024030@net.indra.com> Received: from synergy ([192.168.1.1]) by indirectobject.com (WWW [192.168.1.200]) (MDaemon.PRO.v6.8.5.R) with ESMTP id 53-md50000000006.tmp for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 10:03:17 -0700 From: To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Robin Hood hat? Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 10:03:28 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 thread-index: AcSf+drQqgzEWS8VQlmhzNDT8HjxnQAAs6FQ In-Reply-To: X-Spam-Processed: WWW, Tue, 21 Sep 2004 10:03:17 -0700 (not processed: message from valid local sender) X-MDRemoteIP: 192.168.1.1 X-Return-Path: rreed@indirectobject.com X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have a PDF file I got from a hat-making site a while back. It is a very simple design, and if you use the right fabrics, they turn out nice. Great hat for kids. I had to modify the pattern for an adult size. E-mail me off-list and I will forward it to you. Becky -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Lauren Walker Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 9:35 AM To: h-costume Subject: [h-cost] Robin Hood hat? Hi, Can anyone recommend a good pattern for the sort of pointed cap that is so often drawn on Robin Hood? The Errol Flynn Robin definitely wore such a one. I don't even know what they're called other than Robin Hood caps. Sort of a right triangle with the right angle as the peak of the crown, the short side as the back, and the hypoteneuse as the opening for the head. And a feather! Thanks! Lauren _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 21 13:14:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8LHEMJe010871 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 13:14:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LH8f4d022937 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Sep 2004 11:08:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LH7cxL026958; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 11:07:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web53108.mail.yahoo.com (web53108.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.211]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8LH5WxL025039 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 11:05:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from smnco37@yahoo.co.uk) Message-ID: <20040921170518.46139.qmail@web53108.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [82.112.138.150] by web53108.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 18:05:18 BST Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 18:05:18 +0100 (BST) From: julian wilson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Robin Hood hat? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20040921.095323.23797.732291@webmail24.nyc.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Karen, that's very informative, and also somewhat surprises me. When I was looking for warhammers for our Companie at the start of 2003, those are the words I was using to Yahoo- and Goggle-search for the English armoured-Kinght on Foot's favourite fighting weapon. While I do not doubt the authenticity of your statement, - I also don't recall that "bec de corbin" web-searches in 2003 turned-up anything but weapons suppliers. Not garb suppliers selling "Robin Hood" hats. Thank you for the factoid, - I shall add it to my Files. In Service, Julian, in "olde" Jersey. "seamstrix@juno.com" wrote: The style is known as 'bec de corbin' or 'crow's beak' and was popular in the 1400's along with the houpelande. You can make it by measuring your head and drawing out a triangle that will fit over your head on some scrap fabric (that has some body- felt is good). Round off the top point and sew along the top edge. Try it on your head, folding up the back part until it fits comfortably. You may need to try several mock-ups before you hit on just the right proportion, but it's a simple pattern so you can whip them out in just a few minutes. Once you get the shape and proportion right, you can make it of finer fabrics and even line it so that the lining shows at the turned up back. Karen -- Lauren Walker wrote: Hi, Can anyone recommend a good pattern for the sort of pointed cap that is so often drawn on Robin Hood? The Errol Flynn Robin definitely wore such a one. I don't even know what they're called other than Robin Hood caps. Sort of a right triangle with the right angle as the peak of the crown, the short side as the back, and the hypoteneuse as the opening for the head. And a feather! Thanks! Lauren _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________ Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 21 13:29:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8LHTHA1010974 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 13:29:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LHST4d025593 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Sep 2004 11:28:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LHSLxL045530; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 11:28:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from asmtp-a063f33.pas.sa.earthlink.net (asmtp-a063f33.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.120.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LHQsxL044170 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 11:26:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-4.155.57.237.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([4.155.57.237] helo=HELENPINTO) by asmtp-a063f33.pas.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1C9oPl-0007Qm-O3 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 10:26:54 -0700 Message-ID: <014f01c4a000$2c77cf30$ed399b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <003601c49f43$1d783960$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <414F8217.4010402@in-tch.com><550905E8-0B6D-11D9-8A80-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net><414FC2B1.6020609@kabelfoon.nl> <4A3946D8-0BD6-11D9-9B97-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] stupid stupid thing not to do. Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 13:26:41 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9efe6d69d6013124ac84361cd386a794593350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.155.57.237 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Sylvia wrote: > Do you have any idea how much 20 euro is in US dollars? I can't answer for customs charges, but the link below will take you to a very nice on-line currency exchange calculator. It is customizable for several languages, converts any currency to any other currency, allows choice of the date for which you would like the rate of exchange, and and the type of rate. http://www.oanda.com/convert/classic At today's Interbank rate, 20Euro will get you $24.34US. Enjoy, -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 21 14:13:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8LIDUAl011126 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 14:13:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LIBg4d000877 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Sep 2004 12:11:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LIBaxL084797; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 12:11:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web51402.mail.yahoo.com (web51402.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.181]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i74GGKJT081348 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 2004 10:16:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ivycircle@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040804161614.57466.qmail@web51402.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.240.39.202] by web51402.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 04 Aug 2004 09:16:14 PDT Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 09:16:14 -0700 (PDT) From: ~Angelique To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200408041512.i74FBkJV034741@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75, clamav-milter version 0.75 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 12:11:25 -0600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Blackwork: freeform versus counted X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am confused about the application of blackwork to underclothing (chemise or my husband's shirt) I enjoy the counted blackwork and make mine on 32 linen. I then cut it out and add it as trim. I don't understand how to work the blackwork on the garment if it's counted. Any suggestions would be extremely helpful. Thank you, ~Angeliqur h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: Send h-costume mailing list submissions to h-costume@mail.indra.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to h-costume-request@mail.indra.com You can reach the person managing the list at h-costume-owner@mail.indra.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of h-costume digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Ooo a new picture, Italian (otsisto) 2. Lovely site, Spainish (otsisto) 3. RE: Seattle travel (Molly Boone) 4. Re: Ooo a new picture, Italian (Deredere Galbraith) 5. Re: Elizabethan stockings (Rachel) 6. Receipt for removing roughness from fingers (Freyalynn Close-Hainsworth) 7. Missing Digest 621 (Rachel) 8. Updates & Additions (Penny Ladnier) 9. Correction (Penny Ladnier) 10. RE: Iron Jawed Angels (Teddy) 11. Re: Ooo a new picture, Italian (Sue Clemenger) 12. Re: Elizabethan stockings (Kate M Bunting) 13. Re: Receipt for removing roughness from fingers (Sylvia Rognstad) 14. Re: Receipt for removing roughness from fingers (Cynthia J Ley) 15. Re: Receipt for removing roughness from fingers (Kate M Bunting) 16. Re: Receipt for removing roughness from fingers (Brandy Deming) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 00:19:16 -0500 From: "otsisto" Subject: [h-cost] Ooo a new picture, Italian To: "Historic Costume" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" At least it's new to me. http://www.geocities.com/audreybm_costumes/blue_dress/index.htm De ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 00:22:31 -0500 From: "otsisto" Subject: [h-cost] Lovely site, Spainish To: "Historic Costume" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" http://www.geocities.com/audreybm_costumes/spanish/index.htm De ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 23:57:20 -0700 From: "Molly Boone" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Seattle travel To: "Historical Costume" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" "Display and Costume Supply" is on Roosevelt Ave just north of Northgate they have a website you can get an address, phone and directions from. Another one of my favorites for unusual materials is "In the Beginning" on Lake City Way also in North Seattle. A good place for gorgeous brocades in the main Pacific Fabrics store on 4th ave in the Sodo District, Just south of Downtown Seattle. It is just south of the eyesore ... Uh Safeco Field (the place the Mariner's Play? in). I've heard awesome things about the Van Goh exhibit at the Seattle Art museum downtown. We don't get a lot of Costume things here unfortunately. The Pike Place Market on 1st and Pike in downtown Seattle has several vintage clothing stores in the lower levels and I've had some stunning book finds in a couple of the stores there but as previously mentioned they close up outside of office hours and weekends are PACKED with people. The Sea Fair hydroplane races are this coming weekend so there are a lot of city activities are going on all over Puget Sound as part of Sea Fair over the next 3 weeks so. For activities I'll recommend checking out http://www.kirotv.com/seattleinsider/index.html The weather in August here is typically, to us, a hot 90+degrees with a fairly high humidity and the humidity has been ever worse than normal this year. Most of the locals try and hide from the heat and sun. There are some beautiful parks and a lot have Shakespeare in the Park events going on The arboretum is gorgeous and the Bellevue botanical garden and the Volunteer Park gardens are worth seeing if you are so inclined. Molly Kent, Wa -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of gia_gavino@comcast.net Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 9:16 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Seattle travel Depending where you will be located, these are a few that are my favorites: the Weaving Works located in the University of Washington area. Address is 4717 Brooklyn Ave NE 206-524-1221 Seattle Fabrics, if you are looking for outdoor fabrics, zippers by the yard and other stuff. The do have a web page...don't know what the URL is for it, though: 8702 Aurora Ave North 206-525-0670 Pacific Fabrics near Northgate Mall. Don't have their address. They have an awesome 'special fabrics' section. Display and Costume, around the corner from Pacific Fabrics. Don't have address for this, either. If you don't mind driving *THE* place to go for special threads, linens and needlepoint is ThreadNeedleStreet in Issaquah.Threadneedle Street(425) 391-0528 voice line 485 Front Street North, Suite B(10:00 am-5:00 pm Pacific time Monday - Saturday) Issaquah WA 98027 Happy shopping! -- Slan go foill Elena (Emer) nic Tighearnaigh _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 09:13:52 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ooo a new picture, Italian To: Historical Costume Message-ID: <41108CB0.9070706@kabelfoon.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed It is my favorite. I really want to recreate this dress complete with the embroidery. The only problem is that we stil haven't figuret out what to use for the embroidery. It looks like the stip of embroidery is fairly stif. Is it dark blue green silk backed with someting to make it stif? Or maby velvet? The gold can be tread or some sort of gold work? I have been looking at several gold plated stuf to use but I know to little of goldwork to see what would be best to use. The painting is so small that it is hard to see. http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Bluedress/Bluedress.html Greetings, Deredere otsisto wrote: >At least it's new to me. > >http://www.geocities.com/audreybm_costumes/blue_dress/index.htm > >De >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 08:59:45 +0100 From: "Rachel" Subject: [h-cost] Re: Elizabethan stockings To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: <410A298C0001EA95@mk-cpfrontend-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Thanks to everyone who replied to my desperate plea. No woolen hose for me this year! Horray! It's hot enough under all the wool and ruffs but at least now I'll have cooler legs. Thanks, much appreciated. Rachel Threads of History www.threadsofhistory.co.uk __________________________________________________________________ Get Tiscali Broadband From Ł15:99 http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 01:06:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Freyalynn Close-Hainsworth Subject: [h-cost] Receipt for removing roughness from fingers To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: <20040804080647.29879.qmail@web51301.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Just a quick comment here. I do lots of stuff with my hands and also like to handle fine silk, both to spin and sew. When I find my hands rough, I stand over the sink and in the palm of my hand mix a heaped teaspoon of table salt or caster sugar with a dollop of liquid soap (washing-up liquid will do). This, carefully massaged over your hands, wrists and fingers, will remove all bits of rough skin and leave your hands extremely smooth (and clean). Rinse and thoroughly moisturise. If your hands are extremely dry use olive oil instead of liquid soap, and wash off with a gentle soap. Freyalyn, who has just remembered that you must remove rings first h-costume-request@indra.com wrote:From: "Rachel" Subject: Re: [h-cost] DeVere UK - Pure Silk Yarns I have used these threads and they are wonderful for fine embroidery. The finer silk tends to be very tightly spun but the larger sizes are looser and can snag on rough fingers. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 09:12:52 +0100 From: "Rachel" Subject: [h-cost] Missing Digest 621 To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: <410A298C0001EB99@mk-cpfrontend-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I appear to be missing digest no 621, can someone email a copy to me if possible. Thanks Rachel Threads of History www.threadsofhistory.co.uk __________________________________________________________________ Get Tiscali Broadband From Ł15:99 http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 04:51:17 -0400 From: "Penny Ladnier" Subject: [h-cost] Updates & Additions To: "h-costume" Message-ID: <014101c47a00$350168d0$0200a8c0@MOM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Instead of announcing when we put new articles online in our Costume Library, I have made a webpage for it. At this moment just the latest additions for July and Aug. are listed. You can access the Library Updates & Additions webpage from: http://www.costumegallery.com/updates OR go to the front of our Library, http://www.costumegallery.com/research.htm and click on the link from there. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 04:57:49 -0400 From: "Penny Ladnier" Subject: [h-cost] Correction To: "h-costume" Message-ID: <016601c47a01$1e3ee1d0$0200a8c0@MOM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I am sorry the complete url is http://www.costumegallery.com/updates.htm Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 10:30:03 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: RE: [h-cost] Iron Jawed Angels To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C38D6@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Thanks for bursting my bubble Teddy. Don't mention it... > I found a couple of Liberty House Artistic Reform designs from > right at the turn of the century. My local library has a excellent book > about Liberty House in the reference department. I am planning > to go back an take a look at it one day when I have some money > to make colored copies. > > Beside Teddy most women in this time fame tended to wear fashions from their > coming out or trousseau. So I could still get a way with it. If I decided on > the cycle out fit. Wel, considering that modern-dress wise I'm happy to wear stuff from over ten years ago (if it still fits...) I don't see why someone wouldn't do so in another period. Mind you, I've never been fashionable except by accident when my favoured styles happen to come briefly into fashion. > My daughter does not dress us. She is very conservative. It > is likely I will only make something for the baby. What a shame.... Teddy ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 06:12:25 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ooo a new picture, Italian To: Historical Costume Message-ID: <4110D2A9.5080403@in-tch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Nice! Although someone should probably tell the website owner that she (portrait) isn't "complicated Elizabethan," and definitely more continental! She (website owner) wouldn't have to change persona at all! --sue, actually a little tempted back towards the 16th c..... otsisto wrote: > At least it's new to me. > > http://www.geocities.com/audreybm_costumes/blue_dress/index.htm > ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 13:55:57 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan stockings To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII My experience is similar to Chris's. I have a partially-made pair of stockings (from http://www.dabbler.com/ndlwrk/stocking.html ) which I work on from time to time at Living History events, as a change from playing music. It attracts some interest, as few people do circular knitting these days, but the project will take ages to finish and probably not be wearable when it is. The wooden pins I have are rather thick. One day I will get round to ordering some pins of a more sensible size and knitting a proper pair of stockings, but I have enough pairs for now. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> claning@igc.org 03/08/2004 04:54:30 >>> I'd suggest you regard the stockings you work on at Faire as a "demonstration" project, and not count on being able to turn out enough of them to actually wear regularly, unless you work on them a lot outside of Faire. My experience is that there's not really enough time for someone working at a Renaissance Faire or other "craft demonstration" to actually _do_ significant amounts of needlework. I have "demonstration projects" that I work on only at such times, and I plan them accordingly for maximum "demo potential" and don't expect to have them done anytime soon. If I want to actually make something I will _use_, I do it at home in the off season. It's just a matter of how many hours there are in a "demonstration" day and how many of them one is required to spend doing other things. (Eating, dressing, marching in parades, looking attentively at whatever's going on at "center stage," and -- most important -- talking to people about what I'm doing.) I don't count on being able to accomplish more than about two hours' worth of needlework a day at such an event. Knitting one knee-high stocking takes me at least twelve to fifteen hours of solid knitting (no stopping to talk) -- and I'm a fast knitter, it takes many people up to twice that long. Do the arithmetic and you'll see that it takes a lot of weekends to finish one sock. ____________ ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 08:21:10 -0600 From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Receipt for removing roughness from fingers To: Historical Costume Message-ID: <88BC3D3D-E621-11D8-B93D-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Which kind of sugar is caster? We don't use that term here. Is it regular sugar or powdered? On Aug 4, 2004, at 2:06 AM, Freyalynn Close-Hainsworth wrote: > Just a quick comment here. I do lots of stuff with my hands and also > like to handle fine silk, both to spin and sew. When I find my hands > rough, I stand over the sink and in the palm of my hand mix a heaped > teaspoon of table salt or caster sugar with a dollop of liquid soap > (washing-up liquid will do). This, carefully massaged over your > hands, wrists and fingers, will remove all bits of rough skin and > leave your hands extremely smooth (and clean). Rinse and thoroughly > moisturise. > > If your hands are extremely dry use olive oil instead of liquid soap, > and wash off with a gentle soap. > > Freyalyn, who has just remembered that you must remove rings first > > > > h-costume-request@indra.com wrote:From: "Rachel" > Subject: Re: [h-cost] DeVere UK - Pure Silk Yarns > I have used these threads and they are wonderful for fine embroidery. > The finer silk tends to be very tightly spun but the larger sizes are > looser and can snag on rough fingers. > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 07:40:41 -0700 From: Cynthia J Ley Subject: Re: [h-cost] Receipt for removing roughness from fingers To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: Cley@juno.com Message-ID: <20040804.074110.1596.2.Cley@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain My favorite product for rough hands is Udderly Smooth, which is an udder cream available (in my neck of the woods) at fabric shops. It's greaseless and stainless, and has a very light and pleasant scent. When used for cows, it's meant to help smooth and heal teat cracks--for humans, it's easily one of the best products out there. My fingers are calloused, and thanks to this, I can work with very fine silk threads and no fear. Arlys ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 16:09:54 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Receipt for removing roughness from fingers To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII According to http://eat.epicurious.com/dictionary/food/ , you call caster sugar superfine sugar. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> sylvia@ntw.net 04/08/2004 15:21:10 >>> Which kind of sugar is caster? We don't use that term here. Is it regular sugar or powdered? ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 08:11:32 -0700 From: "Brandy Deming" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Receipt for removing roughness from fingers To: "Historical Costume" Message-ID: <004401c47a35$53e071d0$547c0f04@brandyscomp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Thank you for the tip. Some might be interested in an item I found at my local art store... Liquid Gloves. It goes on like lotion and then you can peel away all the ickyness that comes with certain projects (especially with kids). Just thought y'all would like to know. B ----- Original Message ----- From: "Freyalynn Close-Hainsworth" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 1:06 AM Subject: [h-cost] Receipt for removing roughness from fingers > Just a quick comment here. I do lots of stuff with my hands and also like to handle fine silk, both to spin and sew. When I find my hands rough, I stand over the sink and in the palm of my hand mix a heaped teaspoon of table salt or caster sugar with a dollop of liquid soap (washing-up liquid will do). This, carefully massaged over your hands, wrists and fingers, will remove all bits of rough skin and leave your hands extremely smooth (and clean). Rinse and thoroughly moisturise. > > If your hands are extremely dry use olive oil instead of liquid soap, and wash off with a gentle soap. > > Freyalyn, who has just remembered that you must remove rings first > > > > h-costume-request@indra.com wrote:From: "Rachel" > Subject: Re: [h-cost] DeVere UK - Pure Silk Yarns > I have used these threads and they are wonderful for fine embroidery. > The finer silk tends to be very tightly spun but the larger sizes are > looser and can snag on rough fingers. > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ------------------------------ === message truncated === --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 21 14:58:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8LIwH7E011340 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 14:58:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LHBH4d023262 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Sep 2004 11:11:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LHApxL029720; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 11:10:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from uni06mr.unity.ncsu.edu (uni06mr.unity.ncsu.edu [152.1.1.169]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LH8OxL027516 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 11:08:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from david_serxner@ncsu.edu) Received: from [152.1.24.106] (acq-gss4421.lib.ncsu.edu [152.1.24.106]) by uni06mr.unity.ncsu.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10/N.20040817.03) with ESMTP id i8LH866i012328 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 13:08:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <41506001.7000909@ncsu.edu> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 13:08:17 -0400 From: David Serxner User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040803 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Robin Hood hat? References: <4c5accc8040921095627b9816d@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4c5accc8040921095627b9816d@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-PMX-Version: 4.6.1.107272, Antispam-Core: 4.6.1.106808, Antispam-Data: 2004.9.21.0 X-Spam-Status: No, Hits=7% X-Spam-Level: IIIIIII X-DCC-MessageCare-Metrics: net.indra.com 1108; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The only problem is that this Simplicity pattern is out of print. You can try contacting Simplicity to see if they have any still in stock at their warehouse. Check on eBay also. I have the pattern and used it for a production of Don Giovanni for the men's chorus. David Kristalori History wrote: >Simplicity 7761 which is a sort of "men in tights" sort of ren faire >pattern has a hat included that is exactly the hat you are speaking >of. >http://www.simplicity.com/assets/7761/7761.jpg > > >On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 12:35:18 -0400, Lauren Walker > wrote: > > >>Hi, >>Can anyone recommend a good pattern for the sort of pointed cap that is so >>often drawn on Robin Hood? The Errol Flynn Robin definitely wore such a one. >>I don't even know what they're called other than Robin Hood caps. Sort of a >>right triangle with the right angle as the peak of the crown, the short side >>as the back, and the hypoteneuse as the opening for the head. And a feather! >>Thanks! >>Lauren >> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> >> > > > > > -- David Serxner NCSU Libraries Acquisitions Dept. Serials and Electronic Resources Campus Box 7111 Raleigh, NC 27695-7111 919-513-3355 office 919-515-7292 fax _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 21 15:21:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8LJLmPK011434 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 15:21:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LJKw4d008561 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Sep 2004 13:20:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LJKmxL048215; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 13:20:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from priv-edtnes27.telusplanet.net (outbound04.telus.net [199.185.220.223]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LJKfxL048048 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 13:20:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from edieann@telus.net) Received: from moms ([154.5.142.106]) by priv-edtnes27.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.02 201-2131-111-104-20040324) with SMTP id <20040921192034.QKUG18453.priv-edtnes27.telusplanet.net@moms> for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 13:20:34 -0600 Message-ID: <001701c4a011$54a675e0$6a8e059a@bc.hsia.telus.net> From: "Edith Reardon" To: "Historical Costume" References: <003601c49f43$1d783960$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711><414F8217.4010402@in-tch.com><550905E8-0B6D-11D9-8A80-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> <002c01c49fe3$381b6ad0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] stupid stupid thing not to do. Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 12:29:36 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 6:59 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] stupid stupid thing not to do. For two books, Painting with a Needle (Chinese Embroidery) and Teckniques of Chinese Embroidery i had to pay 150 kr. wich is about 22 dollars. 4 more books are on its way :-( Bjarne You can always refuse delivery of the next books and then reorder from the England source. I know here if I sent those books back I could apply for my duty back. The problem is sometimes the cost of sending the books back is about what I paid in duty so I end up keeping them. Of course you could try emailing the company before hand to tell them why the books will be returned. Brin Kendall _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 21 15:28:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8LJS8u0011467 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 15:28:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LJRC4d009270 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Sep 2004 13:27:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LJR9xL053804; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 13:27:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from priv-edtnes46.telusplanet.net (defout.telus.net [199.185.220.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LJR3xL053600 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 13:27:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from edieann@telus.net) Received: from moms ([154.5.142.106]) by priv-edtnes46.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.02 201-2131-111-104-20040324) with SMTP id <20040921192655.FTNB17050.priv-edtnes46.telusplanet.net@moms> for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 13:26:55 -0600 Message-ID: <003101c4a012$37e31160$6a8e059a@bc.hsia.telus.net> From: "Edith Reardon" To: "Historical Costume" References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A81@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] stupid stupid thing not to do. Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 12:35:57 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Teddy" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 1:41 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] stupid stupid thing not to do. > You wont believe it! > I ordered many embroidery books some time ago from Amazon. > I dont know how, but appearently i ordered the books from USA I am trying to order as much stuff as I can right now from the states. Our Custom Officers have had no contract for 5 mons. now and are letting some parcels thru without duty. I paid the gst the other day but not the pst a savings of over $18.00. I just need to find more cash to order items I will need for next year. Brin Kendall _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 21 15:58:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8LJwAQV011662 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 15:58:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LJun4d012623 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Sep 2004 13:56:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LJucxL078634; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 13:56:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com (outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com [64.136.20.164]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8LJuYxL078454 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 13:56:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from outbound21-sr.nyc.untd.com (webmail05.nyc.untd.com [10.140.30.145]) by smtpout03.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABAXBB38APBHTA2 for (sender ); Tue, 21 Sep 2004 12:55:42 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCsT2939zVl+8s3HMgdJttRYcoFxJfZQsFA== Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by webmail05.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id J73X3RKZ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 12:55:35 PDT Received: from [4.158.81.158] by webmail05.nyc.untd.com with HTTP: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 19:55:29 GMT X-Originating-IP: [4.158.81.158] Mime-Version: 1.0 From: "seamstrix@juno.com" Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 19:55:29 GMT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Robin Hood hat? X-Mailer: WebMail Version 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <20040921.125535.529.527508@webmail05.nyc.untd.com> X-ContentStamp: 9:4:1162951164 X-MAIL-INFO: 595f0f17ebeae35f7aeb0357b327470fef5767477e6f7a472f03fe8faa8f2b2e3b0ea78fe307e3bffbba4a3b3ffbbba7c33b07bb4f7e9bbbbe2acf5e0b5eafde9aaada5e3af33af7dbfad79acbdb6ada7b9af36a272b034e030e3e4b0e3e2efb3e2efb27eaaeeece5fd787d7eb6723e70ad76fa72a13aa135e971a5e97dbda97db X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I believe that it's also known as a 'chapeau a bec' with the same idea of a 'beak hat'. Karen -- julian wilson wrote: Dear Karen, that's very informative, and also somewhat surprises me. When I was looking for warhammers for our Companie at the start of 2003, those are the words I was using to Yahoo- and Goggle-search for the English armoured-Kinght on Foot's favourite fighting weapon. While I do not doubt the authenticity of your statement, - I also don't recall that "bec de corbin" web-searches in 2003 turned-up anything but weapons suppliers. Not garb suppliers selling "Robin Hood" hats. Thank you for the factoid, - I shall add it to my Files. In Service, Julian, in "olde" Jersey. "seamstrix@juno.com" wrote: The style is known as 'bec de corbin' or 'crow's beak' and was popular in the 1400's along with the houpelande. You can make it by measuring your head and drawing out a triangle that will fit over your head on some scrap fabric (that has some body- felt is good). Round off the top point and sew along the top edge. Try it on your head, folding up the back part until it fits comfortably. You may need to try several mock-ups before you hit on just the right proportion, but it's a simple pattern so you can whip them out in just a few minutes. Once you get the shape and proportion right, you can make it of finer fabrics and even line it so that the lining shows at the turned up back. Karen -- Lauren Walker wrote: Hi, Can anyone recommend a good pattern for the sort of pointed cap that is so often drawn on Robin Hood? The Errol Flynn Robin definitely wore such a one. I don't even know what they're called other than Robin Hood caps. Sort of a right triangle with the right angle as the peak of the crown, the short side as the back, and the hypoteneuse as the opening for the head. And a feather! Thanks! Lauren _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________ Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________ Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 21 16:58:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8LKwtwl012067 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 16:58:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LKvw4d020465 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Sep 2004 14:57:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LKvpnR035334; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 14:57:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail2.mdx.safepages.com (mail2.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LKsmxL032580 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 14:54:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail2.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 926CF1D1192; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 20:54:46 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust63.tnt1.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.148.63]) by mail2.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 8DDA91D108B; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 20:54:44 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <011e01c4a01d$3b014050$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" , <15thCenturyEurope@yahoogroups.com> References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C39D2@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 15:54:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-DCC-SPAMCHECK.NET-Metrics: net.indra.com 1168; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] pondering self-supporting cotes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've been meaning to post about this for a good month or so. I had one of those Eureka! moments, where I look at things I've looked at a zillion times before, and suddenly, POP! one tiny little detail suddenly falls into place and I see all sorts of things in an entirely new light. Long ago, through very annoying trial and error, I discovered that you really _need_ a curved neckline for a good self-supporting cote. I focus almost exclusively on late 15thC/early 16thC square-necked styles, and in order to lower my ambient temperature I wanted to skip the undergown, and make the outer gown self-supporting. (A sensible plan, for a resident of Dallas, then Lubbock, then Dallas.) However, the stress caused by the corners of the square neckline makes it soooo much more trouble than it's worth, if not downright impossible. It can work if you stand perfectly still while wearing the gown, but the second you try to move your arms around... ick. At best, hideously unattractive gapping or quad-boob-causing; at worst, downright claustrophobia-inducing, because you lose the ability to move your arms. The only way to make the whole thing work is to cut the neckline so wide that the shoulder strap area is almost nonexistant, and stiffen things up so that it won't fall off. (More on this below!) V-necks don't work any better; in order to get that bias stretch in the right spot, you'd have to cut the V so low that you'd lose most of your support, because the point would be under the bust... and you'd STILL have a horrible fit at the neckline and between the points of the bust, where a portion of the fabric is under no stress at all and flops around loosely. You just plain need the bias stretch and lack of overbust coverage provided by a curved neckline, if you want an effective, attractive, and comfortable self-supporting cote. So that detail was in place: self-supporting cotes? Have curved necklines. The second detail was basically an affirmation of the first. I noticed that in the late 15thC and very early 16thC, it is the undergowns and the single layer gowns (in other words, undergown with no overgown) that have curved necklines. The overgowns had a variety of fashionable necklines, mostly v-shaped or square or a variation or mix of the two. In other words, the curved-neck gowns were in the right _place_ to fill the role of a self-supporting cote; the curved neckline was the neckline of an undergown, rather than of a fashionable overgown. The final detail was the various ways in which women tried to HIDE the curved necklines that they wore under more fashionable overgown necklines. For V-necked gowns, a piece of fabric was pinned into place over the undergown's neckline to create the illusion of a square neck (and conceal the undergown's lacing, no doubt). For square-necked gowns, the tucked-in, shawl-like veil is replaced with a tailored, opaque V-necked garment similar to later partlets--again, this obscured the curved neckline and created the effect of a fashionable neckline, in this case V-shaped. The tiny little POP that happened for me recently, however, was the realization that if you put all these details together, it becomes the closest thing to PROOF of self supporting cotes that I've run across. It's not absolute; it's still deductive. But it is enough to finally convince me. There's simply no other reason for all those little workarounds to hide the curved neck (that I can find, at least) except that the curved neckline, for one reason or another, is _necessary_ and must be hidden rather than eliminated. And why would it be necessary? Because it is nigh unto impossible to make a working self-supporting cote with the fashionable necklines of the era. Why not make a square-necked side-lacing undergown to wear beneath the V-necked gown? Because in practical terms, you can't make a square-necked self-supporting gown. Why not make a V-necked undergown to wear beneath the square-necked overgown? Because in practical terms, you can't make a V-necked self-supporting gown. Only with the introduction of proto-corsetry in the form of stiffened bodices does it become possible to dispose of this curve-necked layer. As an added detail in support of my theory, the timing of the disappearance of the curve-necked undergowns coincides exactly with the introduction of stiffened bodices! Yet more details fall into place: it is also at this point that necklines widen dramatically--which, as I mentioned in the second paragraph, is necessary if you want to move your arms while wearing a supportive square-necked gown! And the opaque "partlet", which had been used to hide the earlier curved neckline, disappears. If the origin of this partlet lay with modesty alone, one would think it would be more necessary with the wider, lower necklines, but no: modesty with the new style is achieved through the chemise, which becomes visible at the neckline and shrinks the region of visible flesh, without having to be opaque. The later partlet develops from this revealed chemise, rather than from the earlier style of partlet. So that little subtle shift of viewpoint that changed my view enormously was this: the only reason those curved necklines stuck around in defiance of fashion is that they offered something more important TO fashion: they are an indication that the gown is self-supporting, because there is no other reason to HAVE that curved neckline if they're NOT self-supporting! If the gown is NOT self-supporting, you simply make it with the appropriate neckline in the first place, rather than creating new garments to fake the effect of the appropriate neckline! With this new viewpoint, I suddenly made sense of all the odd little transitional details that I'd noticed, but hadn't been able to put together into a cohesive whole. (The evolution of my favorite style into the more familiar "Tudor" style, for example!) I'm not saying that all curved neckline gowns in this era are perforce self-supporting; there are a few clear exceptions, generally in areas where the curved neckline is still in fashion, or worn by saints. I am saying that if a fashionable woman wears an unfashionable neckline, there must be a reason! I think it's likely that any depiction of a _tightly_fitted_ undergown or single layer gown with a curved neckline, in an area where those necklines are not fashionable, IS meant to be a depiction of a self-supporting gown. Women of all classes wear this same garment; what makes it so universal? The same thing that makes the bra universal today. (OK, given today's fashions, that may be a bad choice. Let's try that again: "The same thing that made the bra universal in 1950.") I was already swayed in favor of self-supporting cotes by what I saw in paintings; the tightness of the garments shown was just a bit too universal for me to be able to dismiss it as a stylistic choice by so many artists with so little in common. The introduction of extra seaming above and beyond that needed for earlier 4-panels was, to my eye, a refinement needed only if those 4-panel gowns WERE fitted tightly enough for support: the side-front and side-back seams depicted in paintings perfectly eliminated the underbust and back waist wrinkles you get with (and ONLY with) a tightly fitted 4-panel gown. Through a lot of trial and error, I learned that the only practical reason to put THOSE seams in THOSE exact places is in order to fit the garment in a supportive manner. When I take a 4-panel gown and pinch-fit it in such a way that the wrinkles are eliminated, the resulting seamlines are exactly like the seamlines I see in paintings. (Even the weird ones that looked ungainly and ungraceful, until I saw how _this_ weird bulge reduced the stress at _this_ point, and how angling _that_ curve outwards made _that_ part fit smoothly.) Again, moderately convincing visual and experimental evidence, but evidence that I could explain in other ways. But the curved neckline, when it's more trouble to include than exclude? The only way I can explain that is as proof that those curve-necked garments are self-supporting, and that the women wearing it considered it worth the trouble to conceal the neckline in exchange for the support it allowed! -E House Liberty in Our Lifetime - www.freestateproject.org Coming Soon - http://www.seamcheckers.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 21 17:16:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8LLG9F9012168 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 17:16:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LLFC4d022348 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Sep 2004 15:15:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LLF4nR050241; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 15:15:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LLExnS050138 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 15:15:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i8LLf3R9003445 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 17:41:08 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040921141412.027d5008@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 14:14:47 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: [h-cost] pondering self-supporting cotes In-Reply-To: <011e01c4a01d$3b014050$0400a8c0@compaqub> References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C39D2@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Brava! Katie At 03:54 PM 9/21/2004 -0500, you wrote: >I've been meaning to post about this for a good month or so. I had one of >those Eureka! moments, where I look at things I've looked at a zillion >times before, and suddenly, POP! one tiny little detail suddenly falls into >place and I see all sorts of things in an entirely new light. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 21 18:20:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8LMKtTW012540 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 18:20:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LMEl4d029878 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Sep 2004 16:14:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LMEenR004086; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 16:14:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m15.mx.aol.com (imo-m15.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.205]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LMEanR003962 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 16:14:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Theflamingneedle@aol.com) Received: from Theflamingneedle@aol.com by imo-m15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.7.) id 6.b8.62db065d (4262) for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 18:14:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Theflamingneedle@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 18:14:29 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] List courtesy To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5032 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/21/04 4:41:22 PM Central Daylight Time, jauncourt@verizon.net writes: I am compelled to ask that people PLEASE trim things to a more reasonable level before sending replies. Thank you, Maura It would probably be good to mention how to do this; I don't think anyone is doing this intentionally or out of a lack of courtesy, but maybe through not understanding how it's happening in the first place. I understand the way it works on many ISP's, when you simply hit "reply", everything that was sent TO you, is sent BACK to the list. So if you are replying to a message that already has gotten very long, it sends the entire thing back again. Again, as I understand it, the way to avoid this is to highlight a portion of the message that you are responding to - preferably a fairly short portion - and *then* hit the reply button. This inserts just the part that you have highlighted, and leaves out the rest. "Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance." -Will Durant _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 21 18:32:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8LMWmXF012634 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 18:32:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LMRi5Z001351 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Sep 2004 16:31:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LLcNnR070812; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 15:38:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out010.verizon.net (out010pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LLc8nR070594 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 15:38:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jauncourt@verizon.net) Received: from [4.12.169.190] by out010.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040921213806.GXQN23744.out010.verizon.net@[4.12.169.190]> for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 16:38:06 -0500 Message-ID: <41509F41.3050807@verizon.net> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 16:38:09 -0500 From: Maura Folsom User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20040616 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <200409212100.i8LL0SnS037737@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: <200409212100.i8LL0SnS037737@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out010.verizon.net from [4.12.169.190] at Tue, 21 Sep 2004 16:38:06 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] List courtesy X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have just rec'd a 4-message digest, which contained within the first message the entirety of a 16-message digest. Also, in several recent digests, there have been replies that left not only the replied-to message, but all previous commentary in that thread. I've waded through at least twice as much old material as new in the last several days, and it's getting very tiresome. I am compelled to ask that people PLEASE trim things to a more reasonable level before sending replies. Thank you, Maura _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 21 18:43:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8LMhcAU012686 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 18:43:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LMgs4d003183 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Sep 2004 16:42:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LMgonR026660; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 16:42:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mailout.whidbey.net (mailout.whidbey.net [209.166.64.124]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8LMglnS026562 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 16:42:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from andie@whidbey.com) Message-Id: <200409212242.i8LMglnS026562@net.indra.com> Received: from [10.20.10.146] (helo=www.whidbey.com) by mail1.whidbey.net with smtp (Exim 4.30) id 1C9tLO-0005Ly-MC for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 15:42:42 -0700 Received: from 209.166.87.37 (auth. user andie@mail.whidbey.net) by www.whidbey.com with HTTP; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 14:42:49 -0800 To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] List courtesy Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 14:42:49 -0800 X-Mailer: IlohaMail/0.7.9 (On: www.whidbey.com) In-Reply-To: From: "Andrea McElwain" Bounce-To: "Andrea McElwain" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i8LMglnS026562 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On 9/21/2004, "Theflamingneedle@aol.com" wrote: >I understand the way it works on many ISP's, when you simply hit "reply", >everything that was sent TO you, is sent BACK to the list. So if you are >replying to a message that already has gotten very long, it sends the entire thing >back again. > >Again, as I understand it, the way to avoid this is to highlight a portion of >the message that you are responding to - preferably a fairly short portion - >and *then* hit the reply button. This inserts just the part that you have >highlighted, and leaves out the rest. Not every email system will do this. In many cases, you will have to hit "reply", then select and delete the parts that you *don't* want. Andrea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 21 20:06:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8M06CPq013126 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 20:06:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8M00P4d012770 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Sep 2004 18:00:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8M009nR079215; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 18:00:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8M004nS079077 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 18:00:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i8M0QAR9015187 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 20:26:11 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040921165700.0264d008@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 16:59:54 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: Re: [h-cost] List courtesy In-Reply-To: <200409212242.i8LMglnS026562@net.indra.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I use Eudora and I have do do what Andrea describes. At this point it's habitual. I snip *every* document that I respond to because it's easier to do the snip thing on all replies than try to remember which ones need snipping and which ones don't. >Not every email system will do this. In many cases, you will have to hit >"reply", then select and delete the parts that you *don't* want. >Andrea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 21 20:10:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8M0AaBX013133 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 20:10:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8M09t4d013579 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Sep 2004 18:09:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8M09qnR085172; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 18:09:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8M09nnS085131 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 18:09:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i8M07YTA021460 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 20:07:34 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 20:07:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4150C2CB.6030702@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 20:09:47 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] List courtesy References: <200409212100.i8LL0SnS037737@net.indra.com> <41509F41.3050807@verizon.net> In-Reply-To: <41509F41.3050807@verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think it's probably a good bet that if you don't know how to make your emailer do what you want it to, if you post here asking for help someone will try to assist. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du PrĂŠ Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 21 20:13:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8M0DsTQ013159 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 20:13:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8M0DE4d013787 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Sep 2004 18:13:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8M0DDnR087216; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 18:13:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d21.mx.aol.com (imo-d21.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.207]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8M0DBnR087140 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 18:13:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Theflamingneedle@aol.com) Received: from Theflamingneedle@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.7.) id 6.19e.29b7b663 (2612) for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 20:13:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Theflamingneedle@aol.com Message-ID: <19e.29b7b663.2e821d8f@aol.com> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 20:13:03 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] List courtesy To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5032 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i8M0DsTQ013159 Status: RO In a message dated 9/21/04 7:11:31 PM Central Daylight Time, cvirtue+dated+1111363654.959aaa@thibault.org writes: I think it's probably a good bet that if you don't know how to make your emailer do what you want it to, if you post here asking for help someone will try to assist. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du PrĂŠ Argent That's kind of what I was hoping would come of this - that people would be able to see that there are ways to do this, and if they don't know, they can ask. I'm on AOL (obviously) and the highlight-reply method works on AOL. Maybe it would be a good idea to have some sort of guidelines in the list archives that indicates how to be a polite poster? "Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance." -Will Durant _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 21 20:32:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8M0W6Ue013246 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 20:32:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8M0VS4d015679 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Sep 2004 18:31:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8M0VMnR099368; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 18:31:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8M0VEnR099266 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 18:31:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA16798; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 19:38:59 -0500 Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 19:38:57 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] pondering self-supporting cotes In-Reply-To: <011e01c4a01d$3b014050$0400a8c0@compaqub> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: 15thCenturyEurope@yahoogroups.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 21 Sep 2004, E House wrote: > Long ago, through very annoying trial and error, I discovered that you > really _need_ a curved neckline for a good self-supporting cote. Yes. Exactly. The dynamics of the stretch along the curve are a large part of what pulls the bust into place and allows for flexibility where it's needed. > There's simply no other reason for all those little workarounds to > hide the curved neck (that I can find, at least) except that the > curved neckline, for one reason or another, is _necessary_ and must be > hidden rather than eliminated. And why would it be necessary? Because > it is nigh unto impossible to make a working self-supporting cote with > the fashionable necklines of the era. ... the only reason those curved > necklines stuck around in defiance of fashion is that they offered > something more important TO fashion: they are an indication that the > gown is self-supporting, because there is no other reason to HAVE that > curved neckline if they're NOT self-supporting! Excellent explanation, logical train of thought, nice job all around. That one's going in my keeper file. --Robin who normally talks about the stages that lead directly into this one _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 22 00:55:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8M4tpaS015053 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 00:55:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8M4tC4d006195 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Sep 2004 22:55:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8M4stnR059601; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 22:54:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8M4srnR059568 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 22:54:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A95511BBB for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 21:54:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040921215344.024cbda8@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 21:54:48 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] List courtesy In-Reply-To: <19e.29b7b663.2e821d8f@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:13 PM 9/21/2004 -0400, you wrote: >I'm on AOL (obviously) and the highlight-reply method works on AOL. Maybe it >would be a good idea to have some sort of guidelines in the list archives >that indicates how to be a polite poster? This site is the best one on trimming your posts that I have read, as far as netiquette goes. http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?TrimYourPosts Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 22 01:32:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8M5Wh2a015256 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 01:32:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8M5Vr4d008609 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Sep 2004 23:31:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8M5VknR079384; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 23:31:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8M5VhnR079331 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 23:31:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from costumrs@radiks.net) Received: from user-12l20kb.cable.mindspring.com ([69.81.2.139] helo=pierre-ynmjysj2.radiks.net) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1C9zjD-00058e-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 22:31:43 -0700 Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.2.20040921234015.03039ec0@pop.radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net@pop.radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 23:51:35 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <200409211356.i8LDtsxM062315@net.indra.com> References: <200409211356.i8LDtsxM062315@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Partially O.T. - closets X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I love our house - 4 bedrooms, each with a walk-in (really walk-in!!) closet. Two of them have two hanging rods, and all have several shelves also. One bedroom is the master, one is a guest room, and the other 2 are Pierre's and my sewing rooms, respectively. His even has a nook with built-in cupboards and drawers. We have separate rooms because our working styles are very different and very in-compatible. He has the larger one because he has all his video equipment in there also. The 4 rooms are arranged around a landing that is about 10 feet square. The main bath and a linen closet (also walk-in) also open off the landing. The house also has a full finished attic and a full finished basement. I wouldn't live in a house without a basement here in Nebraska - need somewhere to go when tornadoes come thru the area. BTW, as far as I can tell, all this space is original - and the house was built around 1920. Most of the interior doors also still have their original crystal doorknobs. Sandy "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed to Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly -- Why They Are Simply Doomed. Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 22 02:21:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8M6LNbB022892 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 02:21:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8M6KW4d012912 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Sep 2004 00:20:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8M6KPnR006023; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 00:20:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8M6KOnR006004 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 00:20:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AB2B5FB78 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 23:20:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040921231334.00b18218@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 23:19:57 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small In-Reply-To: <414F1CA2.4010207@verizon.net> References: <200409201711.i8KHBNYH014880@net.indra.com> <200409201711.i8KHBNYH014880@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Skill set terms WAS: Partially O.T. - Closets X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 01:08 PM 9/20/2004 -0500, you wrote: <> >professionally producing reenactment and museum quality reproduction >clothing again. Hi all, I have no intentions of stepping on anyone's toes, or causing a flame war, but I have honest questions I hope to get honest answers to. Would someone mind clarifying what exactly (or as much as possible) "museum quality reproduction clothing" would really translate into? Does that mean a garment is hand crafted (hand stitched, embroidered, whatever) just like an original would be? Or does it mean something else? And what is the difference between that and "reenactment" style clothing? Is there a level of acceptable modern sewing techniques that define the two, or what? You see I am wondering at what level my current skill set is, and what I should aspire to, and once I get there, what would I call that skill set. For that matter what should I call my current skill set (but that's for me to figure out, once I know these other terms.) Thanks so much, Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 22 04:59:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8M8xbjS011857 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 04:59:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8M8wj4d003997 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Sep 2004 02:58:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8M8wZnR085145; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 02:58:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.254.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8M8wWnR085087 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 02:58:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 09:58:23 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] stupid stupid thing not to do. To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A9F@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] stupid stupid thing not to do. thread-index: AcSf+0IbTXfz67g/SV+2d2OjFiP6CgAhu9Lw Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.20 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Somewhere between $30 and $40, I think. Exchange rate fluctuates a bit. > When I was over there a couple of years ago (hi, Teddy! ), Hi Sue! Tedd _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 22 09:17:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8MDHabO022563 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 09:17:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8MDGm4d019497 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Sep 2004 07:16:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8MDGVnR005674; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 07:16:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com (imo-d23.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8MDGQnR005579 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 07:16:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Theflamingneedle@aol.com) Received: from Theflamingneedle@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.7.) id 6.7e.595903cc (4196) for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 09:16:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Theflamingneedle@aol.com Message-ID: <7e.595903cc.2e82d521@aol.com> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 09:16:17 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Skill set terms WAS: Partially O.T. - Closets To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5032 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/22/04 1:22:38 AM Central Daylight Time, kimiko@kimiko1.com writes: And what is the difference between that and "reenactment" style clothing? Is there a level of acceptable modern sewing techniques that define the two, or what? I think the rough thing about this is that the definitions are going to vary by person, group and geographical location. To me, museum quality indicates that it should take an expert a few moments of careful inspection in order to determine that what they are looking at is a reproduction and not an extant garment. A thoroughly researched period-accurate pattern, materials, and construction method should have been used to create the garment, without shortcuts or modern this'll-do's. Then you have the much broader term "reproduction". This one's much harder, because what qualifies as a "reproduction" depends on who you're asking. Some people maintain the same standards as museum quality in order to call something a reproduction; some people use the word to describe items that bear only the remotest resemblance to period garments. IMHO, reproduction is an honest and diligent attempt to recreate a period garment, using accurate patterns and as close as possible materials and construction methods. Reenactment style is another one of those terms whose definition depends enormously on what reenactment group you're in. This can run the gamut from a renaissance faire through a really progressive living history group. Generally, a lot of faires and groups use the infamous Ten Foot Rule - as long as nothing is glaringly un-period about your ensemble from ten feet away, you're okay. Obviously this leaves a huge amount of room for interpretation and inaccuracy, but not everyone can afford, has the skill set, or even wants, to be completely accurate. The reasons for making a concession here or a change there are as many as there are people in the hobby/profession. Then there's just flat-out costumes, I guess LOL. I think a lot more stuff falls under this category than their owners or creators would like to think, but with the "historical" patterns coming out in every JoAnn's and the growing popularity of historical reenacting, there's a lot more enthusiasm than research being generated. That's okay with me, though ... the important thing is to assimilate as many people as we can into a love and study of history. We'll worry about getting them clothed right as we go along. "Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance." -Will Durant _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 22 09:47:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8MDl8b2022693 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 09:47:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8MDkF4d021674 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Sep 2004 07:46:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8MDkAnR022927; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 07:46:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web13524.mail.yahoo.com (web13524.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.162]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8MDk6nR022865 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 07:46:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pioneercynthia@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040922134606.72173.qmail@web13524.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [149.164.77.54] by web13524.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 06:46:06 PDT Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 06:46:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Ms Cynthia Schrage To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200409150331.i8F3V90O040548@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] No corset busk? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO DO NOT use Hook and Eye tape instead of a busk. I have a corset with hook and eye tape and it is the most cumbersome thing to get in and out of I've ever worked with. Better to eliminate the busk altogether than use that tape. I just don't even unhook mine, and unlace it every time. First, what play are you doing? What does this girl have to change into? She could probably keep her corset on no matter what, unless she's supposed to be unclothed, and I doubt that, for a high-school play. I just had a woman who had to change from a man to a woman and she kept her corset on the whole time. No one noticed, under her man's shirt and frock coat. Use the plastic boning. I rec'd notes from Martha McCain regarding her usage and she thinks it works well. I would have to agree. Plastic is flexible like whalebone and the steel bones are not really any more period. Again, if you have to have a front opening, use a busk. Hook and eye tape doesn't work well. Maybe just use one for her corset. Also, you could just lightly bone the dresses. Honestly, most high-school girls don't need a lot, and will hate wearing a corset anyway. Have them wear sports bras and they'll be "confined" enough for the stage. What you want to eliminate is the jiggly, "lift and separate" look, let alone the Wonderbra cleavage. I want to hear more. Cynthia _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 22 11:17:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8MFHMBc023306 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 11:17:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8MFFC4d001047 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Sep 2004 09:15:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8MFF3nR087781; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 09:15:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.202.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8MFF0nR087662 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 09:15:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from ches (c-24-1-84-130.client.comcast.net[24.1.84.130]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <2004092215145401200mfefce>; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 15:14:54 +0000 Message-ID: <0fdd01c4a0b6$b2148dc0$6d00a8c0@ches> From: "Chiara" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040922134606.72173.qmail@web13524.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 10:13:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] V&A Museum gauntlets X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have come across a pair of gauntlets at the V&A and have a question for you all here in history land. Does anyone have any further information on these that goes beyond that description as far as what that lining is on the what would have gone between the glove and the metal? http://images.vam.ac.uk/ixbin/hixclient.exe?_IXSESSION_=&submit-button=SUMMARY&_IXIMAGE_=sch200212090930-010&_IXSS_=*sform=search_form&_IXMAXHITS_=15&_IXDB_=default&$=IXALL=glove&_IXSESSION_=&_IXSR_=xl1&_IXFIRST_=27&_IXMAXHITS_=1&_IXSPFX_=full/t&_IXFPFX_=full/t What it looks like to me from what remains and from reading the description that the glove is made of silk is that whatever it was, was knitted. What do you all think? Does anyone know of this specific piece? Chiara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 22 11:58:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8MFw6ua023479 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 11:58:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8MFvI4d005754 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Sep 2004 09:57:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8MFvCnR024504; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 09:57:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8MFv9nS024423 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 09:57:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-115-10.sonic.net [209.148.115.10]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i8MFv57E015365 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 08:57:05 -0700 Message-ID: <4151A0FC.6030501@lavoltapress.com> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 08:57:48 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Skill set terms WAS: Partially O.T. - Closets References: <200409201711.i8KHBNYH014880@net.indra.com> <200409201711.i8KHBNYH014880@net.indra.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20040921231334.00b18218@64.87.54.245> In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20040921231334.00b18218@64.87.54.245> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Would someone mind clarifying what exactly (or as much as possible) > "museum quality reproduction clothing" would really translate into? > Does that mean a garment is hand crafted (hand stitched, embroidered, > whatever) just like an original would be? Or does it mean something else? There is no standard definition of "museum quality." People use whatever marketing terms they wish for their products or creations. People come up with their own (differing) definitions of "museum quality," many of which sound very sensible. However, there is absolutely no way to impose a definition on anyone else. So everyone will continue to label their creations however they want. And every potential buyer will have a different idea of what these labels mean. For real information, it is necessary to describe what you yourself are selling or creating in more detail. For example, "Entirely hand sewn," "All external stitching done by hand but interior stitching done by machine," "All handspun, handwoven fabrics," "Machine-made fabrics that look handspun and handwoven," "All natural fibers," "All natural fibers plus best quality rayon," "All furs personally hunted, no ranch furs," "Best faux fur because preserving species is even more important than costume accuracy," etc. That way, someone whose definition of "museum accuracy," requires handspun, handwoven fabric will not claim you misrepresented anything because you used machine-made materials. > > And what is the difference between that and "reenactment" style > clothing? Is there a level of acceptable modern sewing techniques that > define the two, or what? There is a very wide range of "reenactment" clothing "authenticity"--and this is really another facet of the authenticity debate. It's also related to "beginner/intermediate/advanced" sewer terminology. People freely label themselves according to their self-conceptions. There is no universally defined skill set they need to call themselves "intermediate" or "advanced." Sewing courses that require students to already have certain skills sensibly list the skills--instead of just saying "advanced" and assuming all students who register will have them. As for yourself, if you are creating clothing for sale customers will want and expect you to have advanced/professional skills. As well as listing some skills, particularly any unusual ones or ones customers often ask for, people will expect you to provide a miniresume of how many years you've been using your skills and any relevant formal courses or degrees you've completed. But if this is just a matter of self-definition, it really doesn't matter what you call yourself. Every book and course for the "beginning," "intermediate," or "advanced" sewer will have different requirements, so you need to find out what those requirements are in each case. > > You see I am wondering at what level my current skill set is, and what > I should aspire to, and once I get there, what would I call that skill > set. If you are a hobbyist you can aspire to whatever skill level you want. You can decide to aspire to the most advanced level. You can decide you don't have the time or willpower for that, and it's fine to make things that look OK to you even if some other people make better ones. Fran Lavolta Press Two new books on 1870s and 1880s clothing! http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 22 12:06:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8MG68Rl023556 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 12:06:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8MG5A4d006608 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Sep 2004 10:05:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8MG54nR031266; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 10:05:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8MG4mnR031068 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 10:04:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu (vcs077.vet.cornell.edu [128.253.111.77]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i8MG4iDa003009 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 12:04:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20040922115436.01e31978@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 12:04:51 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] V&A Museum gauntlets In-Reply-To: <0fdd01c4a0b6$b2148dc0$6d00a8c0@ches> References: <20040922134606.72173.qmail@web13524.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Nice gauntlets... not knitted. The only mention the V&A makes of the lining is "crimson silk lining ". Looking at the lining more closely - (Thank you photoshop) you can see the stitches at the back edge of the wrist area. That's one good indicator that it is not knitted. Secondly - looking at the wear patterns on the cloth of the silk you can see places where the pile is worn away, as if the lining was made of a velvet. Also, more notably for knitting these are not holes or ladders. And lastly... there are no stitches visable... now you could argue that the piece was fulled to the point that the stitches were no longer visible.... but there are two problems with that. Firstly a fulled lining would be bulky for a glove, and secondly, silk doesn't full. What I do see is a faded crimson lining likely of velvet. Cut in one piece and then sewn to form a cone to go about the wrist with some pretty hefty stitches... (evidence that not all tailors were obsessed with neatness) The cuff was then worked in silver thread in a curling vine motif between a lattice work of couched gold bars. The outer edge was finished with an applied gold boullion cord. My opinion. YMMV. Bridgette / Mari >I have come across a pair of gauntlets at the V&A and have a question for >you all here in history land. Does anyone have any further information on >these that goes beyond that description as far as what that lining is on the >what would have gone between the glove and the metal? > >http://images.vam.ac.uk/ixbin/hixclient.exe?_IXSESSION_=&submit-button=SUMMARY&_IXIMAGE_=sch200212090930-010&_IXSS_=*sform=search_form&_IXMAXHITS_=15&_IXDB_=default&$=IXALL=glove&_IXSESSION_=&_IXSR_=xl1&_IXFIRST_=27&_IXMAXHITS_=1&_IXSPFX_=full/t&_IXFPFX_=full/t > >What it looks like to me from what remains and from reading the description >that the glove is made of silk is that whatever it was, was knitted. What do >you all think? Does anyone know of this specific piece? > >Chiara webmaster@vet.cornell.edu Mari Stewart College of Veterinary Medicine Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 22 12:56:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8MGuSnq023872 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 12:56:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8MGtV4d012478 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Sep 2004 10:55:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8MGt9nR074916; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 10:55:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8MGt3nR074785 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 10:55:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from ches (c-24-1-84-130.client.comcast.net[24.1.84.130]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <2004092216545801600mpu12e>; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 16:54:58 +0000 Message-ID: <101701c4a0c4$abf9b740$6d00a8c0@ches> From: "Chiara" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040922134606.72173.qmail@web13524.mail.yahoo.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20040922115436.01e31978@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] V&A Museum gauntlets Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 11:51:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What about the fingers? Chiara ----- Original Message ----- From: "M Stewart" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 11:04 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] V&A Museum gauntlets : : Nice gauntlets... not knitted. : The only mention the V&A makes of the lining is "crimson silk lining ". : Looking at the lining more closely - (Thank you photoshop) you can see the : stitches at the back edge of the wrist area. That's one good indicator : that it is not knitted. : Secondly - looking at the wear patterns on the cloth of the silk you can : see places where the pile is worn away, as if the lining was made of a : velvet. Also, more notably for knitting these are not holes or ladders. : And lastly... there are no stitches visable... now you could argue that : the piece was fulled to the point that the stitches were no longer : visible.... but there are two problems with that. Firstly a fulled lining : would be bulky for a glove, and secondly, silk doesn't full. : : What I do see is a faded crimson lining likely of velvet. Cut in one piece : and then sewn to form a cone to go about the wrist with some pretty hefty : stitches... (evidence that not all tailors were obsessed with : neatness) The cuff was then worked in silver thread in a curling vine : motif between a lattice work of couched gold bars. The outer edge was : finished with an applied gold boullion cord. : : My opinion. YMMV. : Bridgette / Mari : : : >I have come across a pair of gauntlets at the V&A and have a question for : >you all here in history land. Does anyone have any further information on : >these that goes beyond that description as far as what that lining is on the : >what would have gone between the glove and the metal? : > : >http://images.vam.ac.uk/ixbin/hixclient.exe?_IXSESSION_=&submit-button=SUMMARY&_IXIMAGE_=sch200212090930-010&_IXSS_=*sform=search_form&_IXMAXHITS_=15&_IXDB_=default&$=IXALL=glove&_IXSESSION_=&_IXSR_=xl1&_IXFIRST_=27&_IXMAXHITS_=1&_IXSPFX_=full/t&_IXFPFX_=full/t : > : >What it looks like to me from what remains and from reading the description : >that the glove is made of silk is that whatever it was, was knitted. What do : >you all think? Does anyone know of this specific piece? : > : >Chiara : : webmaster@vet.cornell.edu : : : Mari Stewart : College of Veterinary Medicine : Cornell University : : _______________________________________________ : h-costume mailing list : h-costume@mail.indra.com : http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 22 13:17:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8MHHJBP023975 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 13:17:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8MHGQ4d015016 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Sep 2004 11:16:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8MHGBnR093858; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 11:16:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8MHFpnR093555 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 11:15:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu (vcs077.vet.cornell.edu [128.253.111.77]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i8MHFnDa014162 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 13:15:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20040922130121.01e42c60@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 13:15:54 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] V&A Museum gauntlets the fingers... In-Reply-To: <101701c4a0c4$abf9b740$6d00a8c0@ches> References: <20040922134606.72173.qmail@web13524.mail.yahoo.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20040922115436.01e31978@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Good question... Made me go take a second look. Looking at the left glove - There is some 'material' left on the thumb. I can't tell what it is. The fingers look pretty well preserved on the exterior - which makes me hazzard that this person was right handed. From what I can see at the index and center fingers there is a curve of fiber. If the fingers were knit a single curve of fiber would not remain as a paralell to the metal finger of the gauntlet... either the whole finger would be there or it would be unravelled in a line perpendicular to the length of the metal finger lames. Now, the whole finger of the glove could be there and I just can't see it. But what this looks like to me is that the same metal cording that was couched at the rim of the cuff, was also used to finish the seams of sewn gloves. Looking at the right glove - The same holds true here in regards to the fingers. But here the thumb is turned so that the glove side is exposed, no material is in evidence. (or at least not enough for me to venture anything on.) What I find most interesting is the lump of metallic rings at the edge (near the thumb) on the right hand glove. This could be mistaken for knitting, but indeed it is not crimson, and has a more metallic cast... On enlargement you can see that these are rings of mail. I cannot enlarge enough with clarity to see if they are overlapped and riveted. But that would be my suspicion. That would indicate that a mail glove of fine gauge was attached to the lames of the gauntlet... and then the edge bound with the gold braid. Again, my opinion. Bridgette/ Mari >What about the fingers? > >Chiara webmaster@vet.cornell.edu Mari Stewart College of Veterinary Medicine Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 22 15:12:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8MJCob6025080 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 15:12:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8MJC14d028792 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Sep 2004 13:12:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8MJBllC002581; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 13:11:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out010.verizon.net (out010pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8MJBilC002525 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 13:11:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jauncourt@verizon.net) Received: from [4.12.173.185] by out010.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040922191143.RZZJ23744.out010.verizon.net@[4.12.173.185]> for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 14:11:43 -0500 Message-ID: <4151CE72.6080001@verizon.net> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 14:11:46 -0500 From: Maura Folsom User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20040616 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Skill set terms References: <200409221557.i8MFvcnS024869@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: <200409221557.i8MFvcnS024869@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out010.verizon.net from [4.12.173.185] at Wed, 22 Sep 2004 14:11:43 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kimiko asked: > Would someone mind clarifying what exactly (or as much as possible) "museum > quality reproduction clothing" would really translate into? Does that mean > a garment is hand crafted (hand stitched, embroidered, whatever) just like > an original would be? Or does it mean something else? It means, according to my mother (who has been a museum curator as well as a reenactor and historic costumer and researcher), that only period techniques and materials are used (cloth, dyes or inks, trimmmings). Sometimes even original materilas, if in good condition, are used. How much is handwork and how much is machine work depends on the period in question, and my mother has gone so far as to purchase two civil-war treadle machines to use for machine sewing items of that time, and when she made medieval Irish clothing for a lecture series she wove the wool cloth herself to acheive the correct textures. The finished garment or accessory should be indistinguishable from an actual period item in every way except age. It's the Historic Costume equivalent of high-end, custom coture sewing. It's also priced accordingly - hats run between 100 and 500 dollars. Full costumes would be much more. > And what is the difference between that and "reenactment" style clothing? > Is there a level of acceptable modern sewing techniques that define the > two, or what? Good reenactment quality clothing often allows for modern but acceptable materials, modern machine sewing on non-visible seams, modern materials whee they won't be seen, etc. It's still custom sewing, but the degree of attention to detail, and the time involved, is different. Certainly more affordable. It's meant to be more accessible to the average middle-class reenactor, and there are varying degrees of authenticity according to the needs and wants of the client. Maura _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 22 15:54:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8MJsnDG025501 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 15:54:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8MIG44d021842 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Sep 2004 12:16:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8MIFunR045231; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 12:15:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.mdx.safepages.com (mail1.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8MIFgnR044945 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 12:15:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail1.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id B09BD13D810; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 18:15:39 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust183.tnt2.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.178.183]) by mail1.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id AB25113D802 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 18:15:38 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <016301c4a0d0$2c84a9f0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4138A9AC.3020800@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 13:15:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 15thC shoe sellers? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't know much at all about 15th century shoes, beyond having seen them in occasionally in period art, but I'd like to buy (buy, not make; buybuybuy) a reasonably accurate pair. Any suggestions of makers/dealers who could supply me for something less than, oh say, $100ish? Anyone? Marc? -E House Liberty in Our Lifetime - www.freestateproject.org Coming Soon - http://www.seamcheckers.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 22 17:04:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8ML4DMK025980 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:04:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ML3C4d012435 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Sep 2004 15:03:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ML2KlC003991; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 15:02:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm29.prodigy.net (ylpvm29-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ML2ElC003916 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 15:02:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-81-25.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.81.25]) by ylpvm29.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ML1wIW005991 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:01:58 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040922133633.025699c0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 13:37:06 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] V&A Museum gauntlets In-Reply-To: <0fdd01c4a0b6$b2148dc0$6d00a8c0@ches> References: <20040922134606.72173.qmail@web13524.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >http://images.vam.ac.uk/ixbin/hixclient.exe?_IXSESSION_=&submit-button=SUMMARY&_IXIMAGE_=sch200212090930-010&_IXSS_=*sform=search_form&_IXMAXHITS_=15&_IXDB_=default&$=IXALL=glove&_IXSESSION_=&_IXSR_=xl1&_IXFIRST_=27&_IXMAXHITS_=1&_IXSPFX_=full/t&_IXFPFX_=full/t My browser choked on this url. Can you give it to me shorter somehow? CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 22 17:10:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8MLAb0o026037 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:10:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ML9c4d013306 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Sep 2004 15:09:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ML9YlC009735; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 15:09:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (www6.plugit.com [66.210.223.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ML9WlC009521 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 15:09:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AF421C00F8; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 14:15:14 -0500 Received: from MOM [69.241.150.7] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A2CA2008A; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 08:48:58 -0500 Message-ID: <000201c4a0ac$5343fc40$0300a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 20:14:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by ElectroSHIELD (www.plugit.com) for spam. X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] I'm Back X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i8MLAb0o026037 Status: RO I am back from Liverpool, England. We had a blast in this very cultural city. Liverpool Institute of Performing Arts is everything they promised plus more. The apartment buildings where my son is staying, used to be the maternity hospital from 1920s-1983. John Lennon was born there. I spent all my free time, between the two main cathedrals photographing their artwork and embroidery. I also interviewed the artists behind an unusual exhibit of coats. I will fill you all on these things later. I thought when I left, that I was getting away from hurricanes. While I was out, one hit Pensacola... where my website is hosted. My websites were down from last Wednesday and just came back up tonight. Thank goodness. I was getting a little panicked when I found out the company was three blocks from the beach. BTW, when I returned, we received the hurricane the next day. Lots more rain! I think this is number 5 or 6 hurricane for us since Aug. 1. I better get back to work... lots of catching up to do. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Online Reference Library, AND Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumegallery.com/research.htm www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 22 17:57:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8MLvopc026351 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:57:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8MLut4d019318 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Sep 2004 15:56:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8MLuklC047958; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 15:56:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8MLuWlC047753 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 15:56:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from ches (c-24-1-84-130.client.comcast.net[24.1.84.130]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <2004092221562501600mralke>; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:56:25 +0000 Message-ID: <10ab01c4a0ee$e6f31f10$6d00a8c0@ches> From: "Chiara" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040922134606.72173.qmail@web13524.mail.yahoo.com> <4.3.1.2.20040922133633.025699c0@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] V&A Museum gauntlets Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 16:54:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Not really. What I did was go to the main site, did a search for gloves, went to the second page of the search results, and selected the image. That is the best I can give you. Chiara ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 3:37 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] V&A Museum gauntlets : : >http://images.vam.ac.uk/ixbin/hixclient.exe?_IXSESSION_=&submit-button=SUMMARY&_IXIMAGE_=sch200212090930-010&_IXSS_=*sform=search_form&_IXMAXHITS_=15&_IXDB_=default&$=IXALL=glove&_IXSESSION_=&_IXSR_=xl1&_IXFIRST_=27&_IXMAXHITS_=1&_IXSPFX_=full/t&_IXFPFX_=full/t : : My browser choked on this url. Can you give it to me shorter somehow? : : : CarolynKayta Barrows : dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian : www.FunStuft.com : : //// \\\ : ////-@@\\\ : (((( 7 ))) : ((( <> )))) : ) (((((( : /----\ /---\)) : : _______________________________________________ : h-costume mailing list : h-costume@mail.indra.com : http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 22 18:06:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8MM62bk026469 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 18:06:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8MM5P4d020274 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Sep 2004 16:05:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8MM5KlC055083; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 16:05:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8MM5HlC054993 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 16:05:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from CyndiFLane@aol.com) Received: from CyndiFLane@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.7.) id 6.9b.4dd8d827 (4222) for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 18:05:06 -0400 (EDT) From: CyndiFLane@aol.com Message-ID: <9b.4dd8d827.2e835112@aol.com> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 18:05:06 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10709 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 772 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/22/2004 8:59:21 AM Pacific Standard Time, h-costume-request@indra.com writes: > Again, as I understand it, the way to avoid this is to highlight a portion > of > the message that you are responding to - preferably a fairly short portion - > > and *then* hit the reply button. This inserts just the part that you have > highlighted, and leaves out the rest. > Oh, bless you, bless you, bless you. I have avoided replying sometimes, because I didn't know how to do this very thing. So, I came here for costume info, and learned computer protocols .. . Nice when you can do two things at once! ~Caiterina nic Sheamus _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 22 18:43:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8MMhPvW027063 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 18:43:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8MMgY4d023810 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Sep 2004 16:42:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8MMgRlC082817; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 16:42:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (mail1.plugit.com [66.210.223.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8MMgOlC082732 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 16:42:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AD622010112; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:32:02 -0500 Received: from MOM [69.241.150.7] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id ACEEBD0024; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:30:06 -0500 Message-ID: <005201c4a0f5$2986ac60$0300a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <003601c49f43$1d783960$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <414F8217.4010402@in-tch.com> <550905E8-0B6D-11D9-8A80-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> <414FC2B1.6020609@kabelfoon.nl><4A3946D8-0BD6-11D9-9B97-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> <415042FA.40104@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] stupid stupid thing not to do. Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 18:40:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by ElectroSHIELD (www.plugit.com) for spam. X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i8MMhPvW027063 Status: RO When in England for the past couple of weeks, I taught my son to look at every pricetag as double the price what it is in the States. An example: 3 - 4 pounds for a Burger King meal is really 6-7 dollars. The exchange was running around $1.80-$1.85 to a pound. The hardest thing to get used to is that the price tag in stores is similar to the U.S. but it actually costs you almost double. The only business we found the price in exchange about the same was Costco (without the VAT tax). Meaning that Costco in England charges in the exchange what the U.S. price is. We did love the no tipping policy. We learned that one quickly. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Online Reference Library, AND Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumegallery.com/research.htm www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 22 19:03:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8MN3tD7027180 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 19:03:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8MN2o4d025926 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:02:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8MN2glC096855; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:02:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from www6.plugit.com (www6.plugit.com [66.210.223.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8MN2RlC096618 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:02:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from costumegallery.com [66.210.222.51] by www6.plugit.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A20B17F0114; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:51:55 -0500 Received: from MOM [69.241.150.7] by costumegallery.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A197B200DA; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:49:59 -0500 Message-ID: <005c01c4a0f7$f09269f0$0300a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <003601c49f43$1d783960$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <414F8217.4010402@in-tch.com><550905E8-0B6D-11D9-8A80-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net><414FC2B1.6020609@kabelfoon.nl><4A3946D8-0BD6-11D9-9B97-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> <014f01c4a000$2c77cf30$ed399b04@HELENPINTO> Subject: Re: [h-cost] stupid stupid thing not to do. Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 19:00:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Plugit.com Electroshield (www.plugit.com) for viruses. X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by ElectroSHIELD (www.plugit.com) for spam. X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i8MN3tD7027180 Status: RO I have been accepting international money with my business for a while. One thing you need to look if you are U.S. based, is that if you accept international checks or money orders, your bank probably will charge you a fee for sending the check to international collections. We had a check from Australia that took two months to clear. That tied my money up for a while. Then we got charged by our bank and the Australian bank, fees for the conversion. I lost about $100 in the deal. The check was written in US dollars on an Australian bank. I had such a problem with this transaction. I had to show the bank all sorts of letters as to the agreement with person. I think I will stick to Paypal for most international transactions. The fees and processing time are a lot less. The U.S. Postal service has an agreement with several countries for international postal money orders. When someone sends a money order from the countries listed at: http://www.usps.com/money/sendingmoney/sendmoneyinternationally.htm you can take the international money order to your local post office and cash it. This is a good way to avoid the bank and the international collection process. You can also do the vice versa when U.S. people sending money orders to these countries. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Online Reference Library, AND Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumegallery.com/research.htm www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 22 19:19:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8MNJo8S027427 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 19:19:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8MNJ64d027299 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:19:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8MNIwlC007640; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:18:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [206.170.184.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8MNIslC007561 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:18:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lists@margospatterns.com) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net15sp33.directcon.net [209.79.209.33] (may be forged)) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id i8MNOjN25245 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 16:24:46 -0700 Message-ID: <002701c4a0fa$94584ee0$21d14fd1@dnyeaqvf> From: To: "Historical Costume" References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A7F@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Partially O.T. - Closets (WAS: Storage andorganization) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 16:19:14 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Houses were taxed based on the number of rooms, and closets > > counted as extra rooms (or something like that -- maybe it > > was number of doors?). A I understand it, in California, for tax purposes, it's only considered a bedroom if it has a closet. An aquaintance who re-remodeled a 130 year old house went so far as to remove some later added closets, so as to be able to pay tax on a three bedroom house, rather than a seven bedroom. When I was househunting a few months ago, I looked at several houses that were billed as "2 bedrooms plus office" and the difference in all cases seemed to be that the "offices" didn't have closets. Margo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 22 20:07:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8N07KkT028106 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 20:07:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8N06K4d002253 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Sep 2004 18:06:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8N06AlC035750; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 18:06:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8N066lD035704 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 18:06:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i8N0WbR9017081 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 20:32:38 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040922165659.00bb0918@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:06:01 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: Re: [h-cost] Partially O.T. - Closets (WAS: Storage andorganization) In-Reply-To: <002701c4a0fa$94584ee0$21d14fd1@dnyeaqvf> References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A7F@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Huh? I've lived in California for nearly 50 years, most of it as a home-owner, but also as a real estate agent and as a real estate broker. I've never heard of any US government agency basing taxes on a bedroom having closets or not. However, at least, in Washington State, the capability of your rural property to handle septic tank sewage determines the number of bedrooms your house can contain. That influences the size of the house, which influences it's market value, which determines it's annual property tax. Thus, if you can have a bedroom legally declared not to be a bedroom, your house can have more rooms that function as bedrooms than the building permit allows. Maybe in that case, lack of a closet makes it a not-bedroom and therefore legal on a lot that allows a limited number of bedrooms. Is this WAY off-topic, or what Katie At 04:19 PM 9/22/2004 -0700, you wrote: > > > Houses were taxed based on the number of rooms, and closets > > > counted as extra rooms (or something like that -- maybe it > > > was number of doors?). > >A I understand it, in California, for tax purposes, it's only considered a >bedroom if it has a closet. An aquaintance who re-remodeled a 130 year old >house went so far as to remove some later added closets, so as to be able to >pay tax on a three bedroom house, rather than a seven bedroom. > >When I was househunting a few months ago, I looked at several houses that >were billed as "2 bedrooms plus office" and the difference in all cases >seemed to be that the "offices" didn't have closets. > >Margo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 22 20:33:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8N0XTMc028444 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 20:33:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8N0VT4d004360 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Sep 2004 18:31:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8N0VLlC048973; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 18:31:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8N0VJlC048889 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 18:31:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gia_gavino@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.112 ([204.127.197.112]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <2004092300311301300a7al4e>; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:31:13 +0000 Received: from [24.16.244.181] by 204.127.197.112; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:31:12 +0000 From: gia_gavino@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] V&A Museum gauntlets Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:31:12 +0000 Message-Id: <092320040031.25303.4152194F00093424000062D72200750744010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Jul 16 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: Z2lhX2dhdmlub0Bjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Goodness I can't even do a cut and paste to get this url to paste! I know about tiny url web page, but just can't make the thing work. -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > I have come across a pair of gauntlets at the V&A and have a question for > you all here in history land. Does anyone have any further information on > these that goes beyond that description as far as what that lining is on the > what would have gone between the glove and the metal? > > http://images.vam.ac.uk/ixbin/hixclient.exe?_IXSESSION_=&submit-button=SUMMARY&_ > IXIMAGE_=sch200212090930-010&_IXSS_=*sform=search_form&_IXMAXHITS_=15&_IXDB_=def > ault&$=IXALL=glove&_IXSESSION_=&_IXSR_=xl1&_IXFIRST_=27&_IXMAXHITS_=1&_IXSPFX_=f > ull/t&_IXFPFX_=full/t > > What it looks like to me from what remains and from reading the description > that the glove is made of silk is that whatever it was, was knitted. What do > you all think? Does anyone know of this specific piece? > > Chiara > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 22 22:04:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8N24Yt9029354 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:04:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8N23k4d011209 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Sep 2004 20:03:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8N23WlC097542; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 20:03:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8N23SlC097479 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 20:03:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.147.76]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i8N234rG015432 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 12:03:22 +1000 Message-ID: <000301c4a111$65981c40$4c93d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040804161614.57466.qmail@web51402.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Blackwork: freeform versus counted Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 13:03:43 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "~Angelique" To: Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 2:16 AM Subject: [h-cost] Blackwork: freeform versus counted > I am confused about the application of blackwork to underclothing (chemise or my husband's shirt) I enjoy the counted blackwork and make mine on 32 linen. I then cut it out and add it as trim. I don't understand how to work the blackwork on the garment if it's counted. Any suggestions would be extremely helpful. > Thank you, ~Angeliqur I'm not sure exactly what you're having trouble with but I'll make a guess at two possible problems. The easiest way to do embroidery directly onto a garment is to draw the shape of your pattern onto uncut fabric embroider within those lines and then cut it out this means you can put it in a frame to avoid distortion. If you're having trouble counting the threads in the fabric you've used for your undergarments then a magnifying glass may help (you can buy free standing ones designed for this sort of craft work) or otherwise you can draw your pattern onto the fabric or (what I did when I wanted to do blackwork onto a strip of bias tape) get some grid paper with a grid the size you want your stitches to be and put a dot at the corners of each square so your stitches will be uniform length but you don't have to count threads. Is that what you wanted? Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole in OR in Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra, Australia ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 22 22:05:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8N252GE029373 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:05:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8N24F4d011272 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Sep 2004 20:04:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8N24ElC097907; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 20:04:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8N23TlC097437 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 20:03:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.147.76]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i8N234rE015432 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 12:03:11 +1000 Message-ID: <000201c4a111$6031aa00$4c93d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040921144854.35805.qmail@web53109.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: OT Re: [h-cost] stupid stupid thing not to do. - EEC Customs' Duties Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 13:01:55 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "julian wilson" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 12:48 AM Subject: [h-cost] stupid stupid thing not to do. - EEC Customs' Duties > Er, hasn't anyone told you people that the European Union - aka France & germany in control of the Brussels Bureaucracy - is conducting a Trade War against the USA? > According to the States Of Jersey Director of Customs & Excise, EU Customs' Duties are now being increased on US goods, on a sliding scale which is set to increase months by month - until Brussels gets whatever p-articular concessions it is seeking from the US Government at this time. Er, sortof. I heard the story on the news a little while ago, the International trade regulating body (whose name I can't remember) ruled that certain US tariffs on European goods were illegal, since the US refused to repeal these tariffs the EU has been granted permission to introduce retaliatory tariffs. But yes I'm pretty sure your statement about customs duties increasing steadily until one side or the other gives in is correct. And although you are the one who pays the real aim is to hurt the US and as several people on this list are choosing not to buy things from the USA due to this higher tariff it appears to be working (if we assume this list is a representative sample). ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole in OR in Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra, Australia ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 22 23:23:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8N3NMDR030093 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:23:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8N3Me4d016579 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:22:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8N3MQlC036311; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:22:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8N3MOlC036281 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:22:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from heather.jones@earthlink.net) Received: from h-68-164-171-89.snfccasy.dynamic.covad.net ([68.164.171.89] helo=[10.0.1.2]) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CAKBb-0003T3-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 20:22:23 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <002701c4a0fa$94584ee0$21d14fd1@dnyeaqvf> References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A7F@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> <002701c4a0fa$94584ee0$21d14fd1@dnyeaqvf> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 19:15:35 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Partially O.T. - Closets (WAS: Storage andorganization) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 4:19 PM -0700 9/22/04, wrote: > > > Houses were taxed based on the number of rooms, and closets >> > counted as extra rooms (or something like that -- maybe it >> > was number of doors?). > >A I understand it, in California, for tax purposes, it's only considered a >bedroom if it has a closet. An aquaintance who re-remodeled a 130 year old >house went so far as to remove some later added closets, so as to be able to >pay tax on a three bedroom house, rather than a seven bedroom. It's even more complicated than that -- to count as a "bedroom" it also has to have a minimum square footage and window-to-area ratio. One of my units has a "large walk-in closet" that itself has a closet ... because the "large walk-in closet" is too small and has too small a window to count as a legal bedroom. (Note that some details may be local rather than state-wide regulations.) Heather -- **** Heather Rose Jones heather.jones@earthlink.net **** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 22 23:31:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8N3VtRC030279 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:31:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8N2Qg4d012755 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Sep 2004 20:26:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8N2QblC009198; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 20:26:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.202.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8N2QYlC009130 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 20:26:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from ches (c-24-1-84-130.client.comcast.net[24.1.84.130]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <2004092302262901200mlafae>; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 02:26:29 +0000 Message-ID: <111b01c4a114$9db92170$6d00a8c0@ches> From: "Chiara" To: "Historical Costume" References: <092320040031.25303.4152194F00093424000062D72200750744010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] V&A Museum gauntlets Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:25:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://images.vam.ac.uk/ do a search for gloves then go to page 2 of the search results then select these gauntlets. Chiara ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 7:31 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] V&A Museum gauntlets : Goodness I can't even do a cut and paste to get this url to paste! I know about tiny url web page, but just can't make the thing work. : -- : Slan go foill : Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri : Emer's Needle Wares : : : -------------- Original message -------------- : : > I have come across a pair of gauntlets at the V&A and have a question for : > you all here in history land. Does anyone have any further information on : > these that goes beyond that description as far as what that lining is on the : > what would have gone between the glove and the metal? : > : > http://images.vam.ac.uk/ixbin/hixclient.exe?_IXSESSION_=&submit-button=SUMMARY&_ : > IXIMAGE_=sch200212090930-010&_IXSS_=*sform=search_form&_IXMAXHITS_=15&_IXDB_=def : > ault&$=IXALL=glove&_IXSESSION_=&_IXSR_=xl1&_IXFIRST_=27&_IXMAXHITS_=1&_IXSPFX_=f : > ull/t&_IXFPFX_=full/t : > : > What it looks like to me from what remains and from reading the description : > that the glove is made of silk is that whatever it was, was knitted. What do : > you all think? Does anyone know of this specific piece? : > : > Chiara : > : > _______________________________________________ : > h-costume mailing list : > h-costume@mail.indra.com : > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume : _______________________________________________ : h-costume mailing list : h-costume@mail.indra.com : http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 23 05:11:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8N9BDlp031284 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 05:11:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8N9AJ4d007229 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Sep 2004 03:10:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8N9A6lC001296; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 03:10:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from alpha2.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (alpha2.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.0.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8N9A1lC001195 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 03:10:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:09:56 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: RE: [h-cost] Changing the subject line befre you post a reply...(WAS: Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 772) To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3AAE@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Changing the subject line befre you post a reply...(WAS: Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 772) thread-index: AcShFUgMge4JPSF7TEqGxFAwxKYxsgAN0Rvw Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.20 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 772 > Oh, bless you, bless you, bless you. I have avoided replying sometimes, > because I didn't know how to do this very thing. So, I came here for costume > info, and learned computer protocols .. . Nice when you can do two > things at once! > > ~Caiterina nic Sheamus Also, changing the subject line (especially if you are relying to a message from a digest) to reflect the actual message you are replying to instead of just the name and number of the digest (see the subject line of this message for an example) It is easy to be so intnet on the content of yoru reply that you forget to change the subject line (I've doen it myself, often enough that I have to consciously make the effort to do it *before* I start typing in my reply) Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 23 12:42:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8NGgTvT003266 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 12:42:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8NGfJ4d024993 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:41:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8NGf2lC083085; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:41:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web50408.mail.yahoo.com (web50408.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.73]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8NGdolC081545 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:39:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dragonwolfcat@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040923163940.57910.qmail@web50408.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [146.82.36.102] by web50408.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 09:39:40 PDT Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 09:39:40 -0700 (PDT) From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-DCC-MessageCare-Metrics: net.indra.com 1108; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] shots of handfasting-Angharad/wolfcat's X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Robin, Molly got part of her website up and for now at least, there are a few shots from the handfasting showing the sideless as it begins to take form. It also has a shot of the "Five of a Kind" and "Rapping Uruk-Hai" masquerade presentations and some detail on how/why we did them. www.rampantpeacock.net The handfasting is under "Members Only" and the rest under "Masquerade" for obvious reasons. I'm also in a partial shot of one of her Seattle Knight personas. Angharad/wolfcat _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 23 12:44:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8NGhvlj003279 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 12:44:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8NGhH4d025267 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:43:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8NGhDlC084990; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:43:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web13524.mail.yahoo.com (web13524.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.162]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8NGejlC082760 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:40:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pioneercynthia@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040923164043.70437.qmail@web13524.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [149.164.60.94] by web13524.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 09:40:43 PDT Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 09:40:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Ms Cynthia Schrage To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200409201245.i8KCjMYI010693@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Folding cutting table X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kimiko, Tell me more about this table. Is it wooden or heavy cardboard? You purchased it at JoAnn's? Does it have a brand name? Thanks, Cynthia Who's posting a lot because she's finally getting to read her e-mail after a flurry of sewing! > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 17:01:23 -0700 > From: Kimiko Small > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Storage and organization > To: Historical Costume > Message-ID: > <5.2.1.1.0.20040919165837.02500d18@64.87.54.245> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; > format=flowed > > At 10:56 AM 9/17/2004 -0700, you wrote: > >there's enough floorspace for the cutting mat to > lay > >on the floor--as long as I manage to keep it clean, > that is! > > > I love my folding cutting table. When not in use, > it's about 8" wide so it > is easily out of the way against my cube bookcase. > When I need to cut, it > opens to many feet wide, big enough to cut large > skirts in full on it. I > can also use it with just one leaf open, which is > most of the time. Getting > older and fatter, my back wasn't able to handle the > stress of cutting on > the floor anymore. So I got this at Joanne's with a > coupon, and it is well > worth even the original price. > > fwiw, > > Kimiko > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 23 13:03:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8NH3vdg003477 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:03:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8NH354d027768 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Sep 2004 11:03:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8NH2jlC001609; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 11:02:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (chori.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8NH2dlC001390 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 11:02:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ldownward@chori.org) X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Sophos http://raeinternet.com/mpp Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP-TLS id 1431303 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:02:29 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.0.0.040405 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:02:28 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Folding cutting table From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20040923164043.70437.qmail@web13524.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kimiko, is this the table they often offer on sale for almost half-price? Usually about $130, but often as low as $69? I've wanted one of those forever, but there's just no room in my small flat until I get the fabrics and millinery supplies organized and weeded out. I'm working on deadlines now but hope to get to it before November. And maybe Jo-Ann will cooperate and offer it on sale again. > From: Ms Cynthia Schrage > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 09:40:43 -0700 (PDT) > To: > Subject: [h-cost] Folding cutting table > > Kimiko, > > Tell me more about this table. Is it wooden or heavy > cardboard? You purchased it at JoAnn's? Does it have a > brand name? > > Thanks, > Cynthia > Who's posting a lot because she's finally getting to > read her e-mail after a flurry of sewing! > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 23 13:08:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8NH8dXW003521 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:08:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8NH6s4d028276 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Sep 2004 11:06:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8NH6rlC005364; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 11:06:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web13527.mail.yahoo.com (web13527.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8NH6llC005244 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 11:06:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pioneercynthia@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040923170645.436.qmail@web13527.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [149.164.60.94] by web13527.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:06:45 PDT Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:06:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Ms Cynthia Schrage To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Cost of Work X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Bjarne, I really like your work. I am interested in the "Kyoto Book". Can you tell me more about it. Also, I just can't believe the quality of the work you do. I have e-mailed your pages to a number of sewing friends and we all believe that you are the "demi-god" of costuming. We all want to know what you are charging (price) for doing the costuming you make? (Obviously, the exchange rate will have to be done by me.) Do you charge by the hour, or by the job? Do your patrons provide their own materials, or is that something you do with them. (Under consultation, of course.) I am sending this both to you, and to the list. Perhaps there are others who would like to know. I am new, and if this has already been widely discussed, I would be happy to check the archives, if someone can tell me how. Thank you very much, Cynthia __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 23 13:31:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8NHV2kO003658 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:31:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8NHUC4d001533 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Sep 2004 11:30:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8NHTolC025933; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 11:29:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from priv-edtnes40.telusplanet.net (outbound05.telus.net [199.185.220.224]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8NHTllC025833 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 11:29:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from edieann@telus.net) Received: from moms ([154.5.142.106]) by priv-edtnes40.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.02 201-2131-111-104-20040324) with SMTP id <20040923172940.MAZM16440.priv-edtnes40.telusplanet.net@moms> for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 11:29:40 -0600 Message-ID: <000501c4a194$2e19efe0$6a8e059a@bc.hsia.telus.net> From: "Edith Reardon" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040923163940.57910.qmail@web50408.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] shots of handfasting-Angharad/wolfcat's Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:38:47 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 9:39 AM Subject: [h-cost] shots of handfasting-Angharad/wolfcat's Robin, Molly got part of her website up and for now at least, there are a few shots from the handfasting showing the sideless as it begins to take form. It also has a shot of the "Five of a Kind" and "Rapping Uruk-Hai" masquerade presentations and some detail on how/why we did them. www.rampantpeacock.net Website address is not right @ where. Brin Kendall _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 23 15:16:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8NJGmLp004167 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 15:16:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8NJFm4d013058 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:15:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8NJFalC014184; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:15:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web50406.mail.yahoo.com (web50406.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8NJFWlC014046 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:15:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dragonwolfcat@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040923191527.63329.qmail@web50406.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [146.82.36.102] by web50406.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 12:15:27 PDT Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 12:15:27 -0700 (PDT) From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" Subject: Re: [h-cost] shots of handfasting-Angharad/wolfcat's To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20040923163940.57910.qmail@web50408.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My apologies everyone, and ESPECIALLY to Molly. YAHOO is fouling up my mail lately. I hit "reply to sender" and still, foul up. the website is up partially up. the direct which I got after excitedly trying to send to Robin the shots so she could see what I did with the wool I purchased from her is: www.rampantpeacock.net/jonnalyhn_and_nick.htm I checked it again, and it is working for me at home and at work. eggy-faced Angharad __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 23 15:45:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8NJj4b2004307 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 15:45:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8NJgu4d015886 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:42:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8NJgjlC036040; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:42:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8NJgglC035803 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:42:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fb6.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.182]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 79F632628E3 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:42:27 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000b01c4a1a5$88fc2c00$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040923163940.57910.qmail@web50408.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] shots of handfasting-Angharad/wolfcat's Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:42:58 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 6:39 PM Subject: [h-cost] shots of handfasting-Angharad/wolfcat's > Robin, > > Molly got part of her website up and for now at least, > there are a few shots from the handfasting showing the > sideless as it begins to take form. > > It also has a shot of the "Five of a Kind" and > "Rapping Uruk-Hai" masquerade presentations and some > detail on how/why we did them. > > www.rampantpeacock.net > > The handfasting is under "Members Only" and the rest > under "Masquerade" for obvious reasons. I'm also in a > partial shot of one of her Seattle Knight personas. > > Angharad/wolfcat Hi, Pictures worked fine for me. Thanks for letting us see, very nice pictures and costumes. Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 23 16:12:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8NKCBBl004458 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 16:12:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8NKB84d019356 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Sep 2004 14:11:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8NKB1lC058256; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 14:11:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8NKAvlD058187 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 14:10:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i8NK8cTA003577 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 16:08:38 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 16:08:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <41532DCF.3070302@thibault.org> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 16:10:55 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] British university scarves X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was going to ask this question here, but then I thought "I'll try a websearch first." And I found the answer, which was interesting, so I'm posting the URL here. I have an Unseen University scarf which is made of woven wool. And yet, the Harry Potter movies show official school scarves which are knit. Which is the true traditional UK scarf? The answer is: both. Prior to the war, they were knit. During the war, woven fabric with long stripes was substituted, and when knitted was possible again, many stayed with that style. http://uppers.org/showArticle.asp?article=516 -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du PrĂŠ Argent Register to vote! Don't let that other guy win! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 23 16:44:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8NKi7os004612 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 16:44:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8NKhD4d022883 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Sep 2004 14:43:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8NKgwlC083331; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 14:43:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail4.mdx.safepages.com (mail4.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.19]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8NKgPlC082782 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 14:42:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail4.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id CF77F26766; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 20:42:25 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust242.tnt2.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.178.242]) by mail4.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 0E6D726880 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 20:42:21 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <021501c4a1ad$d731dd40$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 15:41:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-DCC-sonic.net-Metrics: net.indra.com 1117; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 15thC shoe sellers? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i8NKi7os004612 Status: RO [Bleah, I posted this a while back but it never came through. Apologies to those who may get it twice, if my first post ever does come through.] I don't know much at all about 15th century shoes, beyond having seen them in occasionally in period art, but I'd like to buy (buy, not make; buybuybuy) a reasonably accurate pair. Any suggestions of makers/dealers who could supply me for something less than, oh say, $100ish? Anyone? Marc? -E House Liberty in Our Lifetime - www.freestateproject.org Coming Soon - http://www.seamcheckers.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 23 20:37:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8O0bkdv005888 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 20:37:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8O0aM4d015540 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Sep 2004 18:36:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8O0a8Fc045739; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 18:36:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8O0a5Fd045698 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 18:36:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i8O0fKN7013392 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 20:41:22 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15thC shoe sellers? Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 20:47:06 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <021501c4a1ad$d731dd40$0400a8c0@compaqub> In-Reply-To: <021501c4a1ad$d731dd40$0400a8c0@compaqub> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200409232047.06714.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 23 September 2004 4:41 pm, E House wrote: > [Bleah, I posted this a while back but it never came through. Apologies to > those who may get it twice, if my first post ever does come through.] > > > I don't know much at all about 15th century shoes, beyond having seen them > in occasionally in period art, but I'd like to buy (buy, not make; > buybuybuy) a reasonably accurate pair. Any suggestions of makers/dealers > who could supply me for something less than, oh say, $100ish? Historic Enterprises sells a turnshoe they claim is good for both genders for the period from 1300 to 1485 for $85. http://www.historicenterprises.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=225&c=40 You can also buy a pair of pattens from them, if you wish, for $50: http://www.historicenterprises.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=226&c=40 -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 00:35:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8O4ZAmY006815 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 00:35:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8O4Y44d002263 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Sep 2004 22:34:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8O4XrnX075241; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 22:33:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8O4XpnX075210 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 22:33:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9D4A29F6C for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:33:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040923211853.01ecf950@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:32:08 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Folding cutting table In-Reply-To: <20040923164043.70437.qmail@web13524.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200409201245.i8KCjMYI010693@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:40 AM 9/23/2004 -0700, you wrote: >Kimiko, > >Tell me more about this table. Is it wooden or heavy >cardboard? You purchased it at JoAnn's? Does it have a >brand name? > >Thanks, >Cynthia >Who's posting a lot because she's finally getting to >read her e-mail after a flurry of sewing! Hi Cynthia, Sorry it took a few days to reply, I've been busy sewing for a deadline (and it looks like I beat it). The table is a heavy wooden thing on black metal struts on wheels. It is just the right height for me to cut comfortably (I am 5'6"). The top is melamine coated, so it doesn't snag fabrics. Both sides drop, so I can chose to have it fully extended, partially extended, or both sides dropped to store away. If it wasn't for the stuff on my closet floor, I could put it in my small walk-in closet. Joanne's and Hancocks both carry them, and I think I got mine at Hancocks on sale several Xmas seasons ago. I don't know the brand name, and tried to look it up on both sites, with no success. I know there is an ironing table top that fits this table (on my wish list), and that the large cutting mat fits just one leaf nicely (I use that frequently with my rotary cutters). I have also seen a version someplace that has a drawer just under the 8" or so section of the table that doesn't drop, but I don't need that extra drawer. I have also seen blueprints for a similar table on eBay, that an experienced carpenter could create. hth, Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 00:36:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8O4aoX6006823 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 00:36:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8O4aE4d002412 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Sep 2004 22:36:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8O4aEnX076430; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 22:36:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8O4XqnX075219 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 22:33:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A9E929F76 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:33:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040923213214.00b18440@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:33:42 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Folding cutting table In-Reply-To: References: <20040923164043.70437.qmail@web13524.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:02 AM 9/23/2004 -0700, you wrote: >Kimiko, is this the table they often offer on sale for almost half-price? >Usually about $130, but often as low as $69? I've wanted one of those >forever, but there's just no room in my small flat until I get the fabrics >and millinery supplies organized and weeded out. I'm working on deadlines >now but hope to get to it before November. And maybe Jo-Ann will cooperate >and offer it on sale again. Yes, yes that's the one. They offer it on sale several times a year, especially for Xmas. I saw it every year and finally got myself one a few Xmas ago. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 01:49:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8O5nPY0007060 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 01:49:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8O5mc4d007270 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:48:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8O5mWnX014142; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:48:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8O5mSnX014114 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:48:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DBF5632F7 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 22:48:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040923223009.01eeb9b8@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 22:34:12 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Skill set terms WAS: Partially O.T. - Closets In-Reply-To: <4151A0FC.6030501@lavoltapress.com> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040921231334.00b18218@64.87.54.245> <200409201711.i8KHBNYH014880@net.indra.com> <200409201711.i8KHBNYH014880@net.indra.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20040921231334.00b18218@64.87.54.245> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:57 AM 9/22/2004 -0700, you wrote: >As for yourself, if you are creating clothing for sale customers will want >and expect you to have advanced/professional skills. As well as listing >some skills, particularly any unusual ones or ones customers often ask >for, people will expect you to provide a miniresume of how many years >you've been using your skills and any relevant formal courses or degrees >you've completed. Thank you Fran for your frank discourse on this. I am trying to start my own business, and have many years of sewing and costume skills. However, I am not sure what level my skills would rank as. I know it is above beginner, but am I still in Intermediate level or finally considered advanced? I think your descriptors of what for the garments I make would be the best way to advertise my skill set, that way a person can decide for themselves if I provide what they are looking for. I will leave the terms of Intermediate and Advanced aside as "too vague" for now. Perhaps when I have actually competed or something I will have a better indicator of my skills. Thanks again Fran, Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 01:51:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8O5pQ9Q007067 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 01:51:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8O5oi4d007499 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:50:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8O5oInX015003; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:50:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8O5mTnX014123 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:48:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04B826334E for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 22:48:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040923223503.01ef1d18@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 22:41:48 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Skill set terms In-Reply-To: <4151CE72.6080001@verizon.net> References: <200409221557.i8MFvcnS024869@net.indra.com> <200409221557.i8MFvcnS024869@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 02:11 PM 9/22/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Good reenactment quality clothing often allows for modern but acceptable >materials, modern machine sewing on non-visible seams, modern materials >whee they won't be seen, etc. It's still custom sewing, but the degree of >attention to detail, and the time involved, is different. Certainly more >affordable. It's meant to be more accessible to the average middle-class >reenactor, and there are varying degrees of authenticity according to the >needs and wants of the client. > >Maura Thank you Maura for explaining those terms from your mother. While I have studied and done some spinning, dyeing and weaving, I don't have the time currently with my own little boy to be able to attain the high end, completely hand crafted garment that your mother is able to do. But I can see myself in the good quality reenactment level. I do a lot of handsewing in my garments, even on the inside of some things (like hand padstitched standing collars, and hand bound eyelets), because it provides a better quality garment. However, most clients so far seem to balk at the idea of hand sewing outer trim as too time consuming (time = money), so I have learned how to machine sew them without being too obvious. I guess it will depend on the client, as I have learned both ways and am willing to do both ways. Thanks Maura for sharing your mother's gifts. She would be an excellent example of someone I do aspire to be like, perhaps when my son is older. Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 01:52:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8O5qffF007071 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 01:52:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8O5q04d007675 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:52:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8O5q0nX015829; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:52:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8O5mUnX014131 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:48:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADDFD632F7 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2004 22:48:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040923224215.00b181a8@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 22:47:26 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Partially O.T. - Closets (WAS: Storage andorganization) In-Reply-To: <002701c4a0fa$94584ee0$21d14fd1@dnyeaqvf> References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3A7F@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 04:19 PM 9/22/2004 -0700, you wrote: >When I was househunting a few months ago, I looked at several houses that >were billed as "2 bedrooms plus office" and the difference in all cases >seemed to be that the "offices" didn't have closets. > >Margo That's interesting. We recently had our home built, and now have a four bedroom + hobby room house - that's how the builders have it listed in their models. But my hobby room has a closet (and is my sewing room). The "hobby room" could have been a third garage without a closet, obviously. We could have also made my husband's room, which he calls an office, into a dining room, but then we would have lost the closet and replaced it with an open archway. In my opinion, closets are a great thing to have, if you have enough of them. Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 09:58:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8ODwfeM008584 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 09:58:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ODvp4d016179 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 07:57:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ODvgnX064414; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 07:57:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail11.mdx.safepages.com (mail11.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8ODvWnX064310 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 07:57:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id E06F8A0938; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:57:36 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust13.tnt2.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.178.13]) by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 7C159A0894 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:57:35 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <023501c4a23e$72537280$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <021501c4a1ad$d731dd40$0400a8c0@compaqub> <200409232047.06714.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15thC shoe sellers? Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 08:57:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Honestly, though, I'm looking for something a little bit dressier, though I do like Historic Entrprises' work, and look forward to having them as my biggest competition in the non-shoe arena in the future. =} Well, actually, I do plan to buy a pair of their pattens some day, but for the dressy, fashionable late 15th/very early 16th C stuff, those turnshoes just don't seem quite right. Are there just no other places? I've seen some lovely and as far as I can tell well made stuff for earlier centuries, but ~1420-1520 seems to get skipped over. (I _really_ don't want to have to make my shoes!) Is my only option to hire someone for custom work? -E House Liberty in Our Lifetime - www.freestateproject.org Coming Soon - http://www.seamcheckers.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 12:11:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8OGBmLi009888 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:11:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OG0L4d028957 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 10:00:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OG0AnX063459; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 10:00:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from wo-owa2003.wideorbit.com (owa.wideorbit.com [206.184.11.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OG02nX063059 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 10:00:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from MUnruh-Bays@wideorbit.com) Received: from wo-exch2003.wideorbit.com ([192.168.3.20]) by wo-owa2003.wideorbit.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 08:59:45 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6944.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Subject: RE: [h-cost] 15thC shoe sellers? Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 08:59:45 -0700 Message-ID: <175C4793AFE4AB4596D4C17CCC98FD96854D73@wo-exch2003.wideorbit.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] 15thC shoe sellers? Thread-Index: AcSiT4LX2OdW7wy7TmSXn+i9IzQCJA== From: "Melanie Unruh-Bays" To: "Historical Costume" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Sep 2004 15:59:45.0748 (UTC) FILETIME=[83051140:01C4A24F] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i8OG02nX063059 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Try Bohemond or Revival Clothing. http://www.highfiber.com/~bohemond/ http://www.revivalclothing.com/catpages/cat_lowboots.htm I have seen Bohemond's poulanes ($65), and almost bought a pair. My husband has a pair of the low boots from Revival Clothing ($75) on the recommendation of a friend. They look great, but are as described "a fine compromise between authenticity, function and cost". I'm eagerly awaiting my own pair. It's not their fault that they're not here yet; I've neglected to get back to them with sizing information. Melanie -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Catherine Olanich Raymond Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 5:47 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15thC shoe sellers? On Thursday 23 September 2004 4:41 pm, E House wrote: > [Bleah, I posted this a while back but it never came through. Apologies to > those who may get it twice, if my first post ever does come through.] > > > I don't know much at all about 15th century shoes, beyond having seen them > in occasionally in period art, but I'd like to buy (buy, not make; > buybuybuy) a reasonably accurate pair. Any suggestions of makers/dealers > who could supply me for something less than, oh say, $100ish? Historic Enterprises sells a turnshoe they claim is good for both genders for the period from 1300 to 1485 for $85. http://www.historicenterprises.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=225&c=40 You can also buy a pair of pattens from them, if you wish, for $50: http://www.historicenterprises.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=226&c=40 -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 12:41:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8OGfMp1010119 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:41:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OGds4d003611 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 10:39:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OGdfnX097363; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 10:39:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from simmts7-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts7.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.165]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OGdWnX097180 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 10:39:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([67.68.137.74]) by simmts7-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with SMTP id <20040924163701.METE1960.simmts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:37:01 -0400 Message-ID: <004701c4a254$7bdc3c40$cb6afea9@sherry> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <021501c4a1ad$d731dd40$0400a8c0@compaqub><200409232047.06714.cathy@thyrsus.com> <023501c4a23e$72537280$0400a8c0@compaqub> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15thC shoe sellers? Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:35:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Did a bit of a search online, you can get what you are looking for, it will depend on how much you want to spend. http://www.by-the-sword.com/acatalog/Medieval_Footwear.html http://members.lycos.co.uk/KnightOE/chatelaines.htm http://www.plantagenetshoes.freeserve.co.uk/ http://www.highfiber.com/~bohemond/Bootshop/period-page/period-boots.htm Quality seems to vary widely, you may want to contact these folks before you order. Sheridan ----- Original Message ----- From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 9:57 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15thC shoe sellers? > Honestly, though, I'm looking for something a little bit dressier, though I > do like Historic Entrprises' work, and look forward to having them as my > biggest competition in the non-shoe arena in the future. =} Well, actually, > I do plan to buy a pair of their pattens some day, but for the dressy, > fashionable late 15th/very early 16th C stuff, those turnshoes just don't > seem quite right. > > Are there just no other places? I've seen some lovely and as far as I can > tell well made stuff for earlier centuries, but ~1420-1520 seems to get > skipped over. (I _really_ don't want to have to make my shoes!) Is my only > option to hire someone for custom work? > > -E House > Liberty in Our Lifetime - www.freestateproject.org > Coming Soon - http://www.seamcheckers.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 12:56:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8OGutkG010194 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:56:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OGso4d005429 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 10:54:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OGsinX010327; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 10:54:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web53102.mail.yahoo.com (web53102.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.205]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8OGscnX010157 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 10:54:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from smnco37@yahoo.co.uk) Message-ID: <20040924165429.35088.qmail@web53102.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [82.112.141.180] by web53102.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:54:29 BST Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:54:29 +0100 (BST) From: julian wilson Subject: Re: [h-cost] British university scarves To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <41532DCF.3070302@thibault.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Cynthia and List, Cynthia posted - "I have an Unseen University scarf which is made of woven wool. And yet, the Harry Potter movies show official school scarves which are knit. Which is the true traditional UK scarf?" I lived in Essex, England, and went to a private Prep School as a Dayboy- and the School Scarves of that school were knitted during and just after the 2nd World War, in 1948, I gained my Entrance to one of the local High Schools, - and their school scarves were woven - and since the School had 4 Houses, woven in the colours of each House. So that little ancedote takes your historical perspective back over 50 years, in re: Essex, England at the least. Cynthia posted - "I have an Unseen University scarf ... You have an Unseen University scarf? Where on earth did you find that! My 2 sons are great Terry Pratchett fans, and an Unseen University scarf each would make very welcome and most unusual Christams present. Can I beg you to let me know where you obtained it? From the Uppers? Do tell, please, please, please. Julian Wilson, in "olde" Jersey. --------------------------------- ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 13:09:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8OH9F2V010243 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:09:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OH704d006877 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:07:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OH6KnX020409; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:06:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web51407.mail.yahoo.com (web51407.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.186]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8OH6EnX020226 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:06:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ivycircle@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040924170608.85525.qmail@web51407.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.240.66.227] by web51407.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 10:06:08 PDT Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 10:06:08 -0700 (PDT) From: ~Angelique To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200409230227.i8N2RGlE009504@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Blackwork Counted versus freeform X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----Elizabeth, Thank you, I wasn't sure howto add Blackwork with no distortion. :-) Have a wonderful Friday, ~ Angelique I'm not sure exactly what you're having trouble with but I'll make a guess at two possible problems. The easiest way to do embroidery directly onto a garment is to draw the shape of your pattern onto uncut fabric embroider within those lines and then cut it out this means you can put it in a frame to avoid distortion. If you're having trouble counting the threads in the fabric you've used for your undergarments then a magnifying glass may help (you can buy free standing ones designed for this sort of craft work) or otherwise you can draw your pattern onto the fabric or (what I did when I wanted to do blackwork onto a strip of bias tape) get some grid paper with a grid the size you want your stitches to be and put a dot at the corners of each square so your stitches will be uniform length but you don't have to count threads. Is that what you wanted? Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole in OR in Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra, Australia ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 13:21:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8OHLjRT010314 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:21:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OHDC4d007462 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:13:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OHCjnX025611; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:12:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mx6.wvu.edu (mx6.wvu.edu [157.182.140.68]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OH7lnX021437 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:07:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from khoover@wvu.edu) Received: from WVUGW01.wvu.edu (wvugw01.wvu.edu [157.182.215.110]) by mx6.wvu.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OH7dCn016251 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:07:39 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from khoover@wvu.edu) Received: from WVUDOM1-MTA by WVUGW01.wvu.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:07:39 -0400 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:07:31 -0400 From: "Kathy Hoover" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Comparing prices for used sewing machines X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey Gang, This may have been mentioned before, but are there any websites that would give comparative prices for used sewing machines? Or would just going to EBay still be the best bet? I did a quick search of the Net and it wasn't helpful. I looked at EBay and there were skads to search through. A friend of my boss's, whose mother just passed away, wants to sell Mother's 70's era portable Singer. It is still in pristine condition, as it was hardly ever used. It will probably be sold locally through the newspaper or at a garage sale. Daughter doesn't sew at all and so doesn't know what kind of price to put on it. I don't know any other details about it yet. I asked my boss to get the model number and year and a list of what attachments comes with it. Thanks up front for any directions you can point me in, Kathy Hoover _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 13:54:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8OHsC4K010415 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:54:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OHqX4d011722 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:52:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OHqNnX059698; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:52:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OHqInY059632 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:52:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i8OHnwTA010771 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:49:58 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:49:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <41545ED0.4090000@thibault.org> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:52:16 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] British university scarves References: <20040924165429.35088.qmail@web53102.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040924165429.35088.qmail@web53102.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO julian wilson wrote: > I lived in Essex, England, and went to a private Prep School as a Dayboy- and the School Scarves of that school were knitted during and just after the 2nd World War, in 1948, I gained my Entrance to one of the local High Schools, - and their school scarves were woven - and since the School had 4 Houses, woven in the colours of each House. > So that little ancedote takes your historical perspective back over > 50 years, in re: Essex, England at the least. Is there currently any percieved value difference between the woven and the knit? In other words, would someone say "I now have some more money to spend, so I'll upgrade to the other type of scarf?" > Cynthia posted - "I have an Unseen University scarf ... You have an > Unseen University scarf? Where on earth did you find that! A friend, but some websearching produced this page which sells them (and a picture, for the rest of you if you're curious.) http://www.cmotdibbler.com/cmot_UU.html -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du PrĂŠ Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 14:06:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8OI6dQA010464 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:06:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OI4I4d013089 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:04:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OI4EnX069833; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:04:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm43.prodigy.net (ylpvm43-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OI1onX067556 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:01:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-79-249.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.79.249]) by ylpvm43.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OI1mCF016870 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:01:48 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040924105340.025287b0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 10:55:17 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Comparing prices for used sewing machines In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >This may have been mentioned before, but are there any websites that >would give comparative prices for used sewing machines? Local newspaper classified adds would probably be more useful for your local market. The Luddite says don't forget hardcopy advertising. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 14:23:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8OINO4L010508 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:23:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OIM74d015012 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:22:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OILunX083716; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:21:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OILMnX083389 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:21:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.158] (pm5-158.eos.net [205.133.149.158]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i8OILFn0022999 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:21:16 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:17:29 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200409241802.i8OI27nY067780@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] british school scarves X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have a scarf from Trinity College, Oxford, where I studied one summer (with dons from other colleges, not Trinity, but that's another story). It's made of woven wool. I bought it at the big university supply store there, where you could find all sorts of gorgeous gowns, embroidered emblems, etc. As far as I remember, all the scarves were woven wool. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 14:32:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8OIWS0h010550 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:32:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OIVF4d015846 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:31:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OIUGnX090161; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:30:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web60003.mail.yahoo.com (web60003.mail.yahoo.com [216.109.116.226]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8OITOnX089474 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:29:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from beatricesidney@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040924182917.60725.qmail@web60003.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [128.206.58.119] by web60003.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:29:17 PDT Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:29:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Beatrice Sidney To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200409241658.i8OGvNnZ012495@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Partially OT: Was Closets X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Margo: In many states (Missouri, where I live, Arkansas, and Louisiana off the top of my head) it is illegal to list a room as a bedroom unless it has a door that closes, a window, and a closet. My roomate and I, interestingly, have a two-bedroom apartment "with study" that fills all the requirements for a bedroom. It's listed as a study because our landlord thought it too small for a third bedroom. Beatrice you wrote: >When I was househunting a few months ago, I looked at several houses that >were billed as "2 bedrooms plus office" and the difference in all cases >seemed to be that the "offices" didn't have closets. > >Margo It is said that knowledge comes only to those who seek it; but some knowledge pursues us without respite or mercy. English doesn't borrow from other languages. English follows other languages down dark alleys, knocks them over and goes through their pockets for loose grammar. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 14:43:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8OIh9YR010946 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:43:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OIaM4d016346 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:36:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OIaInX094881; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:36:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OIZqnX094514 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:36:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1CAuuz-000Jba-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 18:35:41 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 19:34:03 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] British university scarves References: <41532DCF.3070302@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: <41532DCF.3070302@thibault.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I went to a private school which was all the way through from 5-18 years. The junior school had knitted scarves (with the stripes across) and the seniors had woven (stripes along). The woven scarves were much shorter and harder to keep wrapped around! One of the local school suppliers here does Griffindor and Slytherin knitted scarves - it's only a question of getting them knitted in the appropriate colours. Jean Cynthia Virtue wrote >I was going to ask this question here, but then I thought "I'll try a >websearch first." And I found the answer, which was interesting, so >I'm posting the URL here. > >I have an Unseen University scarf which is made of woven wool. And >yet, the Harry Potter movies show official school scarves which are >knit. Which is the true traditional UK scarf? > >The answer is: both. Prior to the war, they were knit. During the >war, woven fabric with long stripes was substituted, and when knitted >was possible again, many stayed with that style. > >http://uppers.org/showArticle.asp?article=516 > -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 14:45:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8OIj6jh010951 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:45:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OIXg4d016102 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:33:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OIXYnX092977; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:33:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OIXTnX092830 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:33:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gia_Gavino@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.118 ([204.127.197.118]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <200409241833230140020nsge>; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 18:33:24 +0000 Received: from [128.95.163.22] by 204.127.197.118; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 18:33:22 +0000 From: gia_Gavino@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Comparing prices for used sewing machines Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 18:33:22 +0000 Message-Id: <092420041833.19371.415468720005444C00004BAB2200750784010207900EB9A10E0709@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Jul 16 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: Z2lhX0dhdmlub0Bjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Do you need to have only websites? I do know that at Half Price Books (sometimes called Crown Books) has books on collectible vintage sewing machine stuff. Maybe Barnes and Noble or Borders might have something as well? Just a thought.... -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > Hey Gang, > This may have been mentioned before, but are there any websites that > would give comparative prices for used sewing machines? Or would just > going to EBay still be the best bet? I did a quick search of the Net > and it wasn't helpful. I looked at EBay and there were skads to search > through. > > A friend of my boss's, whose mother just passed away, wants to sell > Mother's 70's era portable Singer. It is still in pristine condition, > as it was hardly ever used. It will probably be sold locally through > the newspaper or at a garage sale. Daughter doesn't sew at all and so > doesn't know what kind of price to put on it. > > I don't know any other details about it yet. I asked my boss to get > the model number and year and a list of what attachments comes with it. > > > Thanks up front for any directions you can point me in, > Kathy Hoover > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 15:00:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8OJ0pQa011376 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:00:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OIxM4d018454 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:59:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OIxEnX011995; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:59:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OIx9nX011936 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:59:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Scourney@nwlink.com) Received: from sc (ip157.usw235.dsl-acs2.sea.iinet.com [207.202.235.157]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 24BE282C81 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:59:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <005601c4a269$02b9bfd0$0200a8c0@sc> From: "Susan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040924182917.60725.qmail@web60003.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Partially OT: Was Closets Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:02:16 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > In many states (Missouri, where I live, Arkansas, and Louisiana off the top of my head) it is illegal to list a room as a bedroom unless it has a door that closes, a window, and a closet. In Seattle, back when I studied building code as an architecture student, for a room to be called a bedroom the windows had to be a certain size and, I think, go outside for fire code reasons. In other words, if you couldn't get out in a hurry, it was against the code to be a bedroom. As a student I lived in at least one room that broke code. I don't remember any requirement for closets. Susan in Seattle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 15:03:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8OJ36j2011399 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:03:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OJ1P4d018655 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:01:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OJ1KnX013722; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:01:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f25.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.75]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OJ1BnX013532 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:01:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:01:04 -0700 Received: from 129.244.6.162 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 19:00:46 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.162] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:00:46 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Sep 2004 19:01:04.0160 (UTC) FILETIME=[D70F0200:01C4A268] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 15thC shoe sellers? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have a small problem personally with answering questions like this, so please bear with me. Of the people currently referred to in this thread, were I to spend money buying shoes from someone else, I'd use Historic Enterprises. I am reluctant to comment further since I don't want to appear critical of anyone who's trying to make shoes for a living on the off chance that it might in fact matter to someone :) Also, I am not familiar with the medieval shoes done by either members.lycos.co.uk/KnightOE or Plantagenet (note, I'd likely go to Plantagenet for their later period stuff though). You may have a problem wanting dressy and inexpensive. You best bet is to talk to one of these (or any others) shoemakers and see if they'll do something more special for you -- but they are likely to charge more for that. I'm sorry I can't be more help than that. Marc _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 15:23:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8OJNBwN011477 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:23:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OJLp4d020949 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:21:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OJLhnX029455; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:21:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from indirectobject.com (066-241-084-045.bus.ashlandfiber.net [66.241.84.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OJLZnX029307 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:21:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rreed@indirectobject.com) Message-Id: <200409241921.i8OJLZnX029307@net.indra.com> Received: from synergy ([192.168.1.1]) by indirectobject.com (WWW [192.168.1.200]) (MDaemon.PRO.v6.8.5.R) with ESMTP id 11-md50000000002.tmp for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:21:22 -0700 From: To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] 15thC shoe sellers? Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:19:31 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 In-Reply-To: <004701c4a254$7bdc3c40$cb6afea9@sherry> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 thread-index: AcSiVhU2Ne8MhVb5SuWuFQY5Xgm4CAAFRR8g X-Spam-Processed: WWW, Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:21:22 -0700 (not processed: message from valid local sender) X-MDRemoteIP: 192.168.1.1 X-Return-Path: rreed@indirectobject.com X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Are there any extant shoes (dressy or not) from this period, or pictures? Do you have an idea of what you want them to look like? I haven't spent much time researching shoes as I am one of those people that hide my comfortable Reeboks under my skirts :P Becky ----- Original Message ----- From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 9:57 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15thC shoe sellers? > Honestly, though, I'm looking for something a little bit dressier, though I > do like Historic Entrprises' work, and look forward to having them as my > biggest competition in the non-shoe arena in the future. =} Well, actually, > I do plan to buy a pair of their pattens some day, but for the dressy, > fashionable late 15th/very early 16th C stuff, those turnshoes just don't > seem quite right. > > Are there just no other places? I've seen some lovely and as far as I can > tell well made stuff for earlier centuries, but ~1420-1520 seems to get > skipped over. (I _really_ don't want to have to make my shoes!) Is my only > option to hire someone for custom work? > > -E House > Liberty in Our Lifetime - www.freestateproject.org > Coming Soon - http://www.seamcheckers.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 15:55:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8OJtpRh011606 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:55:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OJsO4d025236 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:54:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OJsEnX055227; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:54:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from newmail.logical.net (newmail.logical.net [209.23.116.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OJsAnY055181 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:54:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from homeec@telenet.net) Received: from computername (ip-209-23-17-199.modem.logical.net [209.23.17.199]) by newmail.logical.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8OJs3YA019887 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:54:08 -0400 Message-ID: <002f01c4a270$3dfd8c00$c71117d1@computername> From: "Home Ec" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040924182917.60725.qmail@web60003.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Partially OT: Was Closets Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:53:59 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > In many states (Missouri, where I live, Arkansas, and Louisiana off the > top of my head) it is illegal to list a room as a bedroom unless it has a > door that closes, a window, and a closet. My roomate and I, interestingly, > have a two-bedroom apartment "with study" that fills all the requirements > for a bedroom. It's listed as a study because our landlord thought it too > small for a third bedroom. > Beatrice > > you wrote: >>When I was househunting a few months ago, I looked at several houses that >>were billed as "2 bedrooms plus office" and the difference in all cases >>seemed to be that the "offices" didn't have closets. >>Margo Some of us who are landlords have found that listing a 3 bedroom as a 2 bedroom eliminates a lot of the type who crowd many, many people into a space. I only listed it as a 3 bedroom once. I kept getting people who had 4 or 5 kids. I rented it to someone who had 2 kids. Within 2 months they had another couple of relatives up there, with their kid. etc, etc. And it took me months to repair it after they moved out. without giving me more than a couple of weeks notice. This holds true of my neighbors, too. Most of them won't advertise it as such, or have converted into smaller, down to tiny apartments, to avoid these "types." The opposite just hit some long-term friends, who have lived inthe same place for 10 years but their "friend" sold it and gave them 1 month to get out. Since they have a place filled with books (62 boxes) as well as stuff (Costume content: her husband kept trying to give me her material, and I kept laughing at the 5 boxes he considered too much fabric!). They had an awful time, and finally had to settle for an apartment about half the size of what they had had. Rowena _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 16:00:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8OK0KQu011623 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:00:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OJxP4d026148 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:59:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OJxFnX059331; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:59:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OJxDnX059170 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:59:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32ff7.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.247]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id D66A05EE0A6 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 21:58:59 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000701c4a271$050f7600$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 21:59:36 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] my dress on museum X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Finally finally my dress got its home at the old manorhouse. They had made such a fine platform in front of the portrait. I am exhorsted, ben travelling forth and back in train for 8 hours. Anyway here are pictures as promised: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/estrup3.htm Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 16:01:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8OK1t2b011629 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:01:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OJtd4d025486 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:55:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OJtcnX056374; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:55:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mxv2.wvu.edu (mxv2.wvu.edu [157.182.140.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OJtAnX055941 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:55:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from khoover@wvu.edu) Received: from WVUGW01.wvu.edu (wvugw01.wvu.edu [157.182.215.110]) by mxv2.wvu.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OJt5jo023526 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:55:05 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from khoover@wvu.edu) Received: from WVUDOM1-MTA by WVUGW01.wvu.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:55:05 -0400 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:54:34 -0400 From: "Kathy Hoover" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Comparing prices for used sewing machines Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, gee, Gia, make me feel old! The 70's are vintage?! ;) Really, do you think a machine this "not-so-old" would be covered in one of those books? I'll start looking if you do. The reason I asked for websites was because I was assuming that speed would be a factor in getting a value established. Kathy >>> gia_Gavino@comcast.net 9/24/2004 2:33:22 PM >>> Do you need to have only websites? I do know that at Half Price Books (sometimes called Crown Books) has books on collectible vintage sewing machine stuff. Maybe Barnes and Noble or Borders might have something as well? -------------- Original message -------------- > Hey Gang, > This may have been mentioned before, but are there any websites that > would give comparative prices for used sewing machines? Or would just > going to EBay still be the best bet? > > A friend of my boss's, whose mother just passed away, wants to sell > Mother's 70's-era portable Singer. > Thanks up front for any directions you can point me in, > Kathy Hoover _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 16:05:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8OK5SBD011637 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:05:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OK3f4d026726 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:03:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OK3bnX062909; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:03:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail10.mdx.safepages.com (mail10.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.33]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OK3SnX062749 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:03:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail10.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id AA4B920200; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 20:03:30 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust166.tnt3.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.197.166]) by mail10.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 92870203D1 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 20:03:29 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <004901c4a271$8e8fa800$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15thC shoe sellers? Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:03:26 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm really not that hung up on the inexpensive part--if it's too much but still RIGHT, then I'll just save up for it. Accuracy is what I'm looking for, here. I'm frustrated by how many convincingly authentic replicas there are of earlier extant shoes, while there are almost none for the late 15thC/early 16thC! (The Mary Rose shoes are male, and about 20 years too late, but they're the closest I've seen so far.) Since I have no interest in making shoes, I'd like to--for once--rely on the expertise of a knowledgeable and skilled artisan, rather than having to do all the research myself. I guess that's what I'm really looking for, from whoever isn't reluctant to give it: recommendations of someone whose work I can trust, whether the shoes would have to be custom made or not. -E House Liberty in Our Lifetime - www.freestateproject.org Coming Soon - http://www.seamcheckers.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 16:18:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8OKIGSg011742 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:18:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OKGv4d028729 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:16:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OKGKnX075068; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:16:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OKEVnY073510 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:14:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i8OKDlR9026263 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:13:48 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040924130857.027776f8@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:14:25 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Partially OT: Was Closets In-Reply-To: <002f01c4a270$3dfd8c00$c71117d1@computername> References: <20040924182917.60725.qmail@web60003.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yup, and it's illegal to 'discriminate' against people with children. That's why I got out of residential real estate. I saw too many apartments that weren't appropriate for large families trashed by overcrowding. Then they sue ya because your repairs are not keeping up with their damage. It only takes one or two such tenants to make a landlady search for legal ways to keep out families. Or bail out of owning apartments. Even the *bloody* illegal "immigrants" have the right to sue you, even after they have moved 15 illegals into a 2-bedroom apartment. Katie >Some of us who are landlords have found that listing a 3 bedroom as a 2 >bedroom eliminates a lot of the type who crowd many, many people into a >space. I only listed it as a 3 bedroom once. I kept getting people who >had 4 or 5 kids. I rented it to someone who had 2 kids. Within 2 months >they had another couple of relatives up there, with their kid. etc, >etc. And it took me months to repair it after they moved out. without >giving me more than a couple of weeks notice. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 16:21:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8OKL4FZ011760 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:21:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OKEk4d028411 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:14:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OKEhnX073766; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:14:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.mc.surewest.net (smtp1.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8OKE9nX073116 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:14:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-31513); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:10:45 -0700 Received: from unknown (66.205.128.64) by smtp1.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:10:44 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20040924131305.00d1d630@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:13:50 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] my dress on museum In-Reply-To: <000701c4a271$050f7600$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp1 SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=66.205.128.64 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:59 PM 9/24/2004 +0200, you wrote: >Hi, >Finally finally my dress got its home at the old manorhouse. They had made >such a fine platform in front of the portrait. >I am exhorsted, ben travelling forth and back in train for 8 hours. >Anyway here are pictures as promised: >http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/estrup3.htm > >Bjarne Very beautiful, Bjarne! I still want to see that dress on someone dancing, though . Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 16:21:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8OKLYjB011764 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:21:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OKJu4d029267 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:19:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OKJsnX078035; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:19:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OKIinX077143 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:18:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32ff7.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.247]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 4EBE926285E for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 22:18:43 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <003401c4a273$c86b23e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000701c4a271$050f7600$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <02b501c4a272$bd6830b0$02159b04@HELENPINTO> Subject: Re: [h-cost] my dress on museum Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 22:19:23 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I think the museum wants to have it there all the time. I made it for the museum only. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 10:11 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] my dress on museum > Just gorgeous, as usual; it looks great in front of the portrait. > I'm guessing that this is a short-term exhibit; what happens to the dress > when it's over? > Thanks for sharing the pictures, > -Helen/Aidan > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 16:21:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8OKLjTP011767 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:21:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OKKF4d029316 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:20:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OKKEnX078296; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:20:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web53103.mail.yahoo.com (web53103.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.206]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8OKJNnX077631 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:19:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from smnco37@yahoo.co.uk) Message-ID: <20040924201918.18174.qmail@web53103.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [82.112.141.180] by web53103.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 21:19:18 BST Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 21:19:18 +0100 (BST) From: julian wilson To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <41545ED0.4090000@thibault.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] British university scarves + TYVM for URL X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Cynthia, thank you for the URL to C.M.O.T. Dibbler's website- I did a Discworld websearch after e-mailing you the first time - but that particular link didn't come up. As to the other question, I couldn't say, but am glad to have opened a very tiny, very local window into the Past for you. BTW, in England, at the least, there is usually only one Outfitter per Town authorised to sell the School Uniform of a particular School. It was so in Southend-on-Sea, Essex, when I was young; and it was certainly so over here in Jersey while our two sons were of "school age". I think that may have had something to do with notions of commercial fairness, spreading the business around the local tradespeople. What the situation may be now as far as UK Uniiversities are concerned, I know not; - but perhaps other UK-educated Graduates on this List may be able to advise us with respect the their own particular experiences. Cordially, Julian, in "olde" Jersey --------------------------------- ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 16:24:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8OKOfhX011784 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:24:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OKD44d028108 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:13:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OKC5nX071639; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:12:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from asmtp-a063f29.pas.sa.earthlink.net (asmtp-a063f29.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.120.131]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OKC1nX071595 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:12:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-4.155.21.117.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([4.155.21.117] helo=HELENPINTO) by asmtp-a063f29.pas.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CAwQB-0001ol-VH for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:12:00 -0700 Message-ID: <02b501c4a272$bd6830b0$02159b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000701c4a271$050f7600$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] my dress on museum Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:11:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9ef0e39de506e84c7fb99254ba64560b169350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.155.21.117 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just gorgeous, as usual; it looks great in front of the portrait. I'm guessing that this is a short-term exhibit; what happens to the dress when it's over? Thanks for sharing the pictures, -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 16:35:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8OKZbgL011843 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:35:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OKSY4d000457 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:28:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OKSLnX084718; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:28:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OKSHnY084646 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:28:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i8OKPsTA011761 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:25:54 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:25:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4154835D.7070504@thibault.org> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:28:13 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <20040924182917.60725.qmail@web60003.mail.yahoo.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040924130857.027776f8@mail.katiesorchids.com> In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040924130857.027776f8@mail.katiesorchids.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Whoop! whoop! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This thread about how-many-in-an-apartment is going to get very political and flameish, very fast. Shall we stop before it gets there and talk about clothing? Pick your favorite topic and start chatting. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du PrĂŠ Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 16:40:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8OKeXhi011874 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:40:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OKd24d001576 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:39:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OKcunX092836; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:38:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OKconX092566 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:38:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:38:38 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:38:22 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: my dress on museum X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Finally finally my dress got its home at the old manorhouse. They had made such a fine platform in front of the portrait. I am exhorsted, ben travelling forth and back in train for 8 hours. Anyway here are pictures as promised: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/estrup3.htm Bjarne >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How beautiful Bjarne! Thank you for sharing the pictures, Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 16:56:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8OKuVUP011946 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:56:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OKtO4d003287 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:55:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OKswnX007669; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:54:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OKrlnX006798 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:53:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Appin1@aol.com) Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.7.) id 6.1c7.1ef83e06 (4116) for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:53:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Appin1@aol.com Message-ID: <1c7.1ef83e06.2e85e34d@aol.com> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:53:33 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] my dress on museum To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5000 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne, It looks like its next to the painting that inspired it. Is that right? Beautiful in any case. Kathleen Norvell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 16:59:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8OKxOdp011952 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:59:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OKrZ4d003120 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:53:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OKrRnX006619; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:53:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OKrNnX006422 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:53:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-8.13) id A9358834007E; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:53:09 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.105 ([209.131.81.105] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 24 Sep 04 20:53:08 -0000 Message-ID: <003401c4a279$7cc5d920$695183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Comparing prices for used sewing machines Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:00:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Gia, I forget, does this vintage Singer happen to be in that "dark hole"when Singers of what ever model ended up in such bad repute? I think this was a time period when industrial plastics/nylon etc was replacing good old steel. This factor would most likely affect selling price. kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathy Hoover" To: Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 3:54 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Comparing prices for used sewing machines > Oh, gee, Gia, > make me feel old! The 70's are vintage?! ;) > > Really, do you think a machine this "not-so-old" would be covered in > one of those books? I'll start looking if you do. The reason I asked > for websites was because I was assuming that speed would be a factor in > getting a value established. > > Kathy > > >>> gia_Gavino@comcast.net 9/24/2004 2:33:22 PM >>> > Do you need to have only websites? I do know that at Half Price Books > (sometimes called Crown Books) has books on collectible vintage sewing > machine stuff. Maybe Barnes and Noble or Borders might have something > as well? > > -------------- Original message -------------- > > Hey Gang, > > This may have been mentioned before, but are there any websites that > > > would give comparative prices for used sewing machines? Or would just > > > going to EBay still be the best bet? > > > > A friend of my boss's, whose mother just passed away, wants to sell > > Mother's 70's-era portable Singer. > > Thanks up front for any directions you can point me in, > > Kathy Hoover > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 17:27:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8OLRxW9012091 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:27:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OLLH4d006302 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:21:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OLL6nX027269; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:21:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OLKsnY027089 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:21:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i8OLIWTA012008 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:18:32 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:18:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <41548FB3.7080507@thibault.org> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:20:51 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Historical/inspired Hallow'een costumes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Any of you doing historical or historical-inspired halloween costumes for yourselves, family, or friends? -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du PrĂŠ Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 17:31:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8OLVRIM012108 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:31:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OLTU4d007783 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:29:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OLTOnX033500; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:29:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f24.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OLTLnX033394 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:29:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:29:02 -0700 Received: from 129.244.6.222 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 21:28:35 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.222] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:28:35 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Sep 2004 21:29:02.0616 (UTC) FILETIME=[8307E180:01C4A27D] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: 15thC shoe sellers? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: "E House" >I'm really not that hung up on the inexpensive part--if it's too much but >still RIGHT, then I'll just save up for it. Accuracy is what I'm looking >for, here. I'm frustrated by how many convincingly authentic replicas there >are of earlier extant shoes, while there are almost none for the late >15thC/early 16thC! (The Mary Rose shoes are male, and about 20 years too >late, but they're the closest I've seen so far.) Part of the problem is that smack in the middle of the period you suggested "~1420-1520 " there is a massive change in shoemaking technology - particularly with regards to upper class footwear. The Mary Rose shoes might in fact be completely wrong for other reasons, such as construction. That being said, there isn't a huge difference between mens and women's shoes, as far as we can tell (the illustrations are a little tricky since there are all those skirts in the way). The only major exception to this is that long poulaines on women are rarely seen in the illustrations, except in specific instances. We know those because we can see the little points poking out from under the skirts. I'll check my notes though, and see if I can't find a style or two that's a bit dressier than the others :) >Since I have no interest in making shoes, I'd like to--for once--rely on >the >expertise of a knowledgeable and skilled artisan, rather than having to do >all the research myself. I guess that's what I'm really looking for, from >whoever isn't reluctant to give it: recommendations of someone whose work I >can trust, whether the shoes would have to be custom made or not. I understand completely, and honestly if I could have avoided learning how to do it initially, I probably would have myself. Marc _________________________________________________________________ Check out Election 2004 for up-to-date election news, plus voter tools and more! http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 17:32:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8OLW9br012112 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:32:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OLUb4d007931 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:30:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OLUXnX034272; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:30:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mxv2.wvu.edu (mxv2.wvu.edu [157.182.140.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OLTfnX033618 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:29:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from khoover@wvu.edu) Received: from WVUGW01.wvu.edu (wvugw01.wvu.edu [157.182.215.110]) by mxv2.wvu.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OLTYCe002045 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:29:34 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from khoover@wvu.edu) Received: from WVUDOM1-MTA by WVUGW01.wvu.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:29:34 -0400 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:29:25 -0400 From: "Kathy Hoover" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Comparing prices for used sewing machines Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kathleen, That was from me, not Gia. And I don't know yet. I was just told it was 70's-ish. The owner is supposed to be getting me that info shortly. Kathy >>> rmitchell@washjeff.edu 9/24/2004 5:00:13 PM >>> Gia, I forget, does this vintage Singer happen to be in that "dark hole"when Singers of what ever model ended up in such bad repute? I think this was a time period when industrial plastics/nylon etc was replacing good old steel. This factor would most likely affect selling price. kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathy Hoover" To: Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 3:54 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Comparing prices for used sewing machines > Oh, gee, Gia, > make me feel old! The 70's are vintage?! ;) > > Kathy > > >>> gia_Gavino@comcast.net 9/24/2004 2:33:22 PM >>> > Do you need to have only websites? I do know that at Half Price Books > (sometimes called Crown Books) has books on collectible vintage sewing > machine stuff. > -------------- Original message -------------- > > Hey Gang, > > This may have been mentioned before, but are there any websites that > > > would give comparative prices for used sewing machines? > > > > A friend of my boss's, whose mother just passed away, wants to sell > > Mother's 70's-era portable Singer. > > Thanks up front for any directions you can point me in, > > Kathy Hoover _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 17:32:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8OLWnhN012117 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:32:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OLF84d005415 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:15:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OLEunX022711; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:14:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OLEknY022538 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:14:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i8OLE5R9010205 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:14:06 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040924141347.0292fdd8@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:14:41 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: [h-cost] Whoop! whoop! In-Reply-To: <4154835D.7070504@thibault.org> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040924130857.027776f8@mail.katiesorchids.com> <20040924182917.60725.qmail@web60003.mail.yahoo.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040924130857.027776f8@mail.katiesorchids.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'll post no more on the topic. Somebody come up with more topics for this chatterbox to chatter about... Katie At 04:28 PM 9/24/2004 -0400, you wrote: >This thread about how-many-in-an-apartment is going to get very political >and flameish, very fast. Shall we stop before it gets there and talk >about clothing? Pick your favorite topic and start chatting. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 17:35:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8OLZvBS012130 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:35:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OLYT4d008375 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:34:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OLYNnX037003; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:34:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OLYJnX036938 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:34:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from sdn-ap-009masprip0324.dialsprint.net ([63.186.145.70]) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CAxhp-0002bn-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:34:17 -0400 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:35:03 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] my dress on museum From: ruthanne baumgartner To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000701c4a271$050f7600$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bravissimo, Bjarne. No matter how tired you may be, when you wake up you'll surely be flooded with a feeling of accomplishment. And how lucky the visitors to the manorhouse will be, to be able to see history come to such vivid life. Even on a mannequin the gown seems ready to dance a stately measure. You have done the past a great service, and I hope you will get the level of recognition you deserve. --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer on 9/24/04 3:59 PM, Bjarne og Leif Drews at drewscph@post12.tele.dk wrote: > Hi, > Finally finally my dress got its home at the old manorhouse. They had made > such a fine platform in front of the portrait. > I am exhorsted, ben travelling forth and back in train for 8 hours. > Anyway here are pictures as promised: > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/estrup3.htm > > Bjarne > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 17:49:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8OLnWQ4012192 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:49:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OLmI4d010061 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:48:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OLm9nX046569; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:48:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web51308.mail.yahoo.com (web51308.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8OLldnX046123 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:47:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elvestoorder@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040924214734.45055.qmail@web51308.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.237.35.248] by web51308.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:47:34 PDT Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:47:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Ann Catelli Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15thC shoe sellers? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <023501c4a23e$72537280$0400a8c0@compaqub> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have a pair of Master Dru's turnshoes & they are lovely, but more expensive than you were indicating in your original email. On the other hand, I have 6.5 EEE feet with a high arch and narrow heel, so I'm used to paying retail. Ann in CT --- E House wrote: > Honestly, though, I'm looking for something a little > bit dressier, though I > do like Historic Entrprises' work, and look forward > to having them as my > biggest competition in the non-shoe arena in the > future. =} Well, actually, > I do plan to buy a pair of their pattens some day, > but for the dressy, > fashionable late 15th/very early 16th C stuff, those > turnshoes just don't > seem quite right. > > Are there just no other places? I've seen some > lovely and as far as I can > tell well made stuff for earlier centuries, but > ~1420-1520 seems to get > skipped over. (I _really_ don't want to have to make > my shoes!) Is my only > option to hire someone for custom work? > > -E House > Liberty in Our Lifetime - www.freestateproject.org > Coming Soon - http://www.seamcheckers.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 18:13:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8OMDIrJ012314 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 18:13:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OMCF4d012518 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:12:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OMC5nX063051; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:12:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8OMC0nX062967 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:12:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id A950A34BE2 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:11:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040924150245.01f6b368@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:11:54 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historical/inspired Hallow'een costumes In-Reply-To: <41548FB3.7080507@thibault.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i8OMC0nX062967 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 05:20 PM 9/24/2004 -0400, you wrote: >Any of you doing historical or historical-inspired halloween costumes for >yourselves, family, or friends? > >-- >Cynthia Virtue and/or >Cynthia du PrĂŠ Argent I am going to make my son a costume based on Edward IV's toddler portrait. Simplicity has the basic pattern, which I want to modify. I am making the outfit in linen, because he will be wearing this at hot faires next year. I will be making a separate chemise. The linen is dark blue, so I will be fabric stenciling the sleeves in a period pattern with gold paint. And then I will be adding in the hanging over-sleeves that Simplicity left off (modified to easily detach). This is the Simplicity pattern, View C: http://www.simplicity.com/index.cfm?cat=4&type=21&sec=0&id=80&startrow=1 This is the image of Edward IV as a toddler (Hans Holbein, 1539) http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Edward3.jpg Our group often does Henry VIII events, so I thought it would be fun to have little "Edward" running around faire. However, knowing my little boy, it will most often be in chemise only, if that much, as he is a little streaker at times. {sigh} Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 20:04:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8P045ex012770 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 20:04:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8P03K4d027382 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 18:03:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8P034nX029185; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 18:03:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8P031nX029117 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 18:03:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (c-24-21-147-231.client.comcast.net [24.21.147.231]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i8P02sJ15394 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 20:02:54 -0400 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:09:02 -0700 Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20040924150245.01f6b368@64.87.54.245> Message-Id: <1B1FD28A-0E87-11D9-B71A-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] ebay find X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey all, Found this nifty bit of embroidery on ebay, but it's not my period. The auction closes in an hour. (I have no affiliation with the seller) Enjoy! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/ eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3749336234&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com Public Relations Manager Sauron/Voldemort 2004 Bush/Cheney - Bringing Bigotry back to the Constitution. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 20:08:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8P08Cxo012778 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 20:08:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8P07X4d027774 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 18:07:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8P07UnX031404; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 18:07:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8P07SnX031359 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 18:07:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (c-24-21-147-231.client.comcast.net [24.21.147.231]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i8P07NJ16783 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 20:07:23 -0400 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:13:31 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historical/inspired Hallow'een costumes Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <41548FB3.7080507@thibault.org> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i8P07SnX031359 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO hiya, I have a Snow White dress I made as a mock up of a 16thC Venetian (worked out dynamics of tie-front to see if it would stay closed and my first cartridge pleating even though the Venetian didn't have cartridge pleating). I plan to go as Snow Drift, the "not quite as innocent as the new fallen snow".... *evil laughter* I wanted to do Willy Wonka, but never got around to it. Maybe next year if I can find the right fabrics. Althea On Friday, September 24, 2004, at 02:20 PM, Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Any of you doing historical or historical-inspired halloween costumes > for yourselves, family, or friends? > > -- > Cynthia Virtue and/or > Cynthia du PrĂŠ Argent > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com Public Relations Manager Sauron/Voldemort 2004 Bush/Cheney - Bringing Bigotry back to the Constitution. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 20:15:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8P0FI4W012833 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 20:15:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8P0Ed4d028252 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 18:14:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8P0EZnX034957; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 18:14:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.196]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8P0EYnX034922 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 18:14:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jacquelinejbump@gmail.com) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 79so1353852rnl for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:14:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.164.27 with SMTP id m27mr1708123rne; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:14:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.14.59 with HTTP; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:14:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4c5accc804092417145785dc9c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 20:14:29 -0400 From: Kristalori History To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historical/inspired Hallow'een costumes In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 References: <41548FB3.7080507@thibault.org> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i8P0EYnX034922 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well I'm supposed to be having a 70's themed party and I imgaine if I don't just go buy vintage I'll make soemthing from the tons of patterns I have already Why a 70's party? Because of my new place. We weren't settled enough last year to do a party but this year I am. My place can be seen here http://snipurl.com/9bir Bice > On Friday, September 24, 2004, at 02:20 PM, Cynthia Virtue wrote: > > > Any of you doing historical or historical-inspired halloween costumes > > for yourselves, family, or friends? > > > > -- > > Cynthia Virtue and/or > > Cynthia du Pré Argent -- "Pardon me, Lady Tudor Glitz, but telling people things aren't period isn't period." Italian Ladies 2005 Calendar http://www.lulu.com/kristalori _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 20:16:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8P0GiF9012840 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 20:16:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8P0GB4d028433 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 18:16:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8P0GAnX035777; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 18:16:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8P0FtnX035616 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 18:15:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (c-24-21-147-231.client.comcast.net [24.21.147.231]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i8P0FnJ19271 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 20:15:49 -0400 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:21:58 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: Althea Turner To: Costume Historical Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] needs patterns X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings all, I would like to make my children warm hats and boots for the winter season. Does anyone know of a good web site (or paper pattern) for felt boots and "Lao" hats? Thanks! Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com Public Relations Manager Sauron/Voldemort 2004 Bush/Cheney - Bringing Bigotry back to the Constitution. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 20:50:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8P0oaV7013051 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 20:50:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8P0np4d000504 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 18:49:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8P0nknX051732; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 18:49:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8P0ninX051700 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 18:49:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m96.in-tch.com [216.166.191.96]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i8P0mht11461 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 18:48:44 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <4154C1AD.2090702@in-tch.com> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 18:54:05 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re:New topic was [h-cost] Whoop! whoop! References: <20040924182917.60725.qmail@web60003.mail.yahoo.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040924130857.027776f8@mail.katiesorchids.com> <4154835D.7070504@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: <4154835D.7070504@thibault.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Okay, so here goes with something.... How many of you have started out with a small idea for a costume or article/outfit of period clothing (whatever the period), and ended up picking up entirely different hobbies/skills as a result? I wanted to make 1, just *one*, outfit that was suitable to an 11th century Irish/Norse woman living in Dublin. Then, I decided I wanted authentic fibers, which went to authentic weaves, and now, a year later, I'm cleaning, combing & spinning wool, playing with period dyes, weaving, and knitting. I've turned into a fiber freak! The knitting threatens to take over, all on its own! and all I wanted to do, reallyreally, was learn just enough to fake a pair of socks/shoe liners that would have been nalbinded. *sigh* --sue, happy martyr to all things fibery & costumey ;o) Cynthia Virtue wrote: > This thread about how-many-in-an-apartment is going to get very > political and flameish, very fast. Shall we stop before it gets there > and talk about clothing? Pick your favorite topic and start chatting. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 20:55:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8P0tqTC013065 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 20:55:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8P0tA4d000964 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 18:55:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8P0t8nX054266; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 18:55:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8P0t5nX054252 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 18:55:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m96.in-tch.com [216.166.191.96]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i8P0s8t13008 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 18:54:08 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <4154C2F1.3020004@in-tch.com> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 18:59:29 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historical/inspired Hallow'een costumes References: <41548FB3.7080507@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: <41548FB3.7080507@thibault.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Not this year (too much else going on, clothing/costuming-wise). In past years, though, I wore my "red Elizabethan" to work on Halloween. Both years, I had more than one person ask me where my flamingo was.... If I still had the outfit, I think I'd find myself a lawn ornament, and do it again! --sue Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Any of you doing historical or historical-inspired halloween costumes > for yourselves, family, or friends? > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 21:09:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8P19UYW013195 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 21:09:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8P18m4d001703 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 19:08:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8P18gnX060790; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 19:08:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8P18enX060775 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 19:08:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF584351D7 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 18:08:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040924180807.01f6b368@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 18:08:37 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historical/inspired Hallow'een costumes In-Reply-To: <4154C2F1.3020004@in-tch.com> References: <41548FB3.7080507@thibault.org> <41548FB3.7080507@thibault.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 06:59 PM 9/24/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Not this year (too much else going on, clothing/costuming-wise). In past >years, though, I wore my "red Elizabethan" to work on Halloween. Both >years, I had more than one person ask me where my flamingo was.... >If I still had the outfit, I think I'd find myself a lawn ornament, and do >it again! >--sue That's really amusing. I will have to remember that when my Red Elizabethans gets done (hopefully this winter). Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 21:31:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8P1VS8F013257 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 21:31:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8P1Um4d003243 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 19:30:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8P1UhnX071079; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 19:30:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8P1UenX071021 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 19:30:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lauren.walker@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (h0006255ec5ea.ne.client2.attbi.com[66.31.43.36]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <2004092501303501300lml2ve>; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 01:30:35 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 21:29:30 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] my dress on museum From: Lauren Walker To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000701c4a271$050f7600$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It's VERY beautiful. How heavy is the silver taffeta? It drapes just like the one in the painting, and I've been having trouble figuring out whether modern taffeta is too lightweight. Anyway, gorgeous work! Lauren > From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" > > Hi, > Finally finally my dress got its home at the old manorhouse. They had made > such a fine platform in front of the portrait. > I am exhorsted, ben travelling forth and back in train for 8 hours. > Anyway here are pictures as promised: > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/estrup3.htm > > Bjarne > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 22:03:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8P235KI013341 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 22:03:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8P22Q4d005265 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 20:02:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8P22JnX086172; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 20:02:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8P22InX086099 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 20:02:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gia_gavino@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.112 ([204.127.197.112]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <20040925020212014007obpge>; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 02:02:12 +0000 Received: from [24.16.244.181] by 204.127.197.112; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 02:02:09 +0000 From: gia_gavino@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Comparing prices for used sewing machines Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 02:02:09 +0000 Message-Id: <092520040202.26285.4154D1A0000E7198000066AD2200750744010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Jul 16 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: Z2lhX2dhdmlub0Bjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey, I know what you mean! I graduated HS in the mid 70's. But, yes, I think you would be surprised! You might try the local library for books like these... -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > Oh, gee, Gia, > make me feel old! The 70's are vintage?! ;) > > Really, do you think a machine this "not-so-old" would be covered in > one of those books? I'll start looking if you do. The reason I asked > for websites was because I was assuming that speed would be a factor in > getting a value established. > > Kathy > > >>> gia_Gavino@comcast.net 9/24/2004 2:33:22 PM >>> > Do you need to have only websites? I do know that at Half Price Books > (sometimes called Crown Books) has books on collectible vintage sewing > machine stuff. Maybe Barnes and Noble or Borders might have something > as well? > > -------------- Original message -------------- > > Hey Gang, > > This may have been mentioned before, but are there any websites that > > > would give comparative prices for used sewing machines? Or would just > > > going to EBay still be the best bet? > > > > A friend of my boss's, whose mother just passed away, wants to sell > > Mother's 70's-era portable Singer. > > Thanks up front for any directions you can point me in, > > Kathy Hoover > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 22:08:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8P286i3013356 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 22:08:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8P27U4d005604 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 20:07:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8P27TnX088759; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 20:07:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m22.mx.aol.com (imo-m22.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8P27RnX088685 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 20:07:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.7.) id 6.193.2e8da5f1 (4206) for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 22:07:18 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <193.2e8da5f1.2e862cd5@aol.com> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 22:07:17 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] my dress on museum To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5031 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/24/2004 3:59:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: Finally finally my dress got its home at the old manorhouse. They had made such a fine platform in front of the portrait All I can say is, "WOW!" Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 22:11:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8P2BEGa013366 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 22:11:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8P2Ad4d005826 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 20:10:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8P2AdnX090290; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 20:10:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8P29vnX089891 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 20:09:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.7.) id 6.199.2ec75c4b (4206) for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 22:09:48 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <199.2ec75c4b.2e862d6c@aol.com> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 22:09:48 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5031 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Shopping! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My husband said I should share this with the list. We had a whirlwind trip to New England last week (almost literally--Hurricane Ivan followed us most of the way). Anyway, we just had time to visit the Wright's Trim Outlet store in Sturbridge, Massachusetts. I stocked up on tassels in various sizes and colors to trim reticules, got 10 packs of various sizes and colors of bias tape for $1.00, and bought some extra wide ruffled eyelet trim for an eventual square dance dress. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 22:11:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8P2BqY5013369 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 22:11:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8P2A24d005785 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 20:10:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8P29wnX089976; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 20:09:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8P29vnX089939 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 20:09:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.103] (pm7-103.eos.net [205.133.149.103]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i8P29sn0018823 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 22:09:54 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 22:06:04 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200409250015.i8P0FPnY035373@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Bjarne's new dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne: Thanks so much for posting the pictures of your dress at the museum! I love the story behind it -- how this was the dress that made you want to do historic costumes. How wonderful for you to be able to make that very dress, and share it with the whole world! Or at least with those who visit the museum. It looks so beautiful with the painting. I wish I could wear it myself... Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 24 22:19:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8P2J4Qx013380 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 22:19:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8P2IO4d006345 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 20:18:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8P2IJnX093961; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 20:18:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-118.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8P2IHnX093906 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 20:18:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by mail.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F33B425DB for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 21:46:29 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4154D564.1070306@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 21:18:12 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historical/inspired Hallow'een costumes References: <41548FB3.7080507@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: <41548FB3.7080507@thibault.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Any of you doing historical or historical-inspired halloween costumes > for yourselves, family, or friends? > Not this year. I just got back from Joann's with some fancy black fabrics and a few metallic halloween remnants, and I think I'll be doing something Japanese Gothic from the pattern book my husband got me for my birthday. Can't read a word of it, but the directions are very well illustrated. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 25 01:38:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8P5cNeS014208 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 01:38:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8P5bU4d018853 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 23:37:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8P5bCnX081871; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 23:37:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from lakermmtao04.cox.net (lakermmtao04.cox.net [68.230.240.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8P5b7nX081779 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 23:37:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyanne@quik.com) Received: from gary4lna2lrlna ([68.109.6.186]) by lakermmtao04.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.04 201-2131-111-106-20040729) with ESMTP id <20040925053700.GPU17806.lakermmtao04.cox.net@gary4lna2lrlna> for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 01:37:00 -0400 From: "Anne Moeller" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Historical/inspired Hallow'een costumes Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 01:37:01 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20040924150245.01f6b368@64.87.54.245> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Thread-Index: AcSihWJ+pcsZFzNTSKqwQjc7H9FvcgAPA12g Message-Id: <20040925053700.GPU17806.lakermmtao04.cox.net@gary4lna2lrlna> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cool idea. I was surprised to see the sleeves look just like some fabric I found years ago when a fabric store went out of business. Now I KNOW it is period. Anne This is the image of Edward IV as a toddler (Hans Holbein, 1539) http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Edward3.jpg Our group often does Henry VIII events, so I thought it would be fun to have little "Edward" running around faire. However, knowing my little boy, it will most often be in chemise only, if that much, as he is a little streaker at times. {sigh} Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 25 01:54:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8P5sBLE014279 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 01:54:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8P5rV4d019597 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Sep 2004 23:53:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8P5rSnX088484; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 23:53:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8P5rQnX088471 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 23:53:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from perronnelle@earthlink.net) Received: from user-12hc6s3.cable.mindspring.com ([69.22.27.131] helo=[192.168.1.100]) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CB5Us-0003hA-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 22:53:26 -0700 Message-ID: <415507D1.7090203@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 00:53:21 -0500 From: Charlene Charette User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20040616 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume List Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 1920's-1940's seamstress needed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't have the details, but a friend asked me if there was anyone in the North Dallas / McKinney, Texas area doing 1920's-1940's. He and his wife need costumes for a function. He's hoping to do an Army uniform of the period. I'll pass along any information to him. TIA, --Charlene -- Courtesy is owed. Respect is earned. Love is given. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 25 04:11:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8P8BEwa000312 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 04:11:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8P8AU4d005271 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Sep 2004 02:10:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8P8AOnX047231; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 02:10:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8P8ALnX047130 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 02:10:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole (cpe-dhcp-syd-203.214.146.180.bigblue.net.au [203.214.146.180] (may be forged)) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i8P89ov2029400 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 18:10:06 +1000 Message-ID: <000201c4a2d6$f690c3c0$b492d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 13:07:50 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] cartridge pleating 16th c. Venetian (was Historical/inspired Hallow'een costumes) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Althea Turner" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 10:13 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historical/inspired Hallow'een costumes > hiya, > > I have a Snow White dress I made as a mock up of a 16thC Venetian > (worked out dynamics of tie-front to see if it would stay closed and my > first cartridge pleating even though the Venetian didn't have cartridge > pleating). Althea OK so I'm not exactly an expert on Venetian (I've done the high waisted c.1500 look but haven't really looked much beyond that) but looking at the few portraits I've saved on my hard drive I've seen quite a bit of cartridge pleating. Of course the fashion for pleating styles changed from year to year so perhaps you meant that cartridge pleating was not in fashion for the style you wanted, what portrait/year/decade were you looking at? Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole in OR in Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra, Australia ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 25 07:50:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8PBooNM014676 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 07:50:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8PBo54d018641 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Sep 2004 05:50:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8PBnrnX034953; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 05:49:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.suscom.net (smtp1.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8PBnpnY034920 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 05:49:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (smtp1 [127.0.0.1]) by smtp1.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48414D884C for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 07:44:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp1.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp1 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 30870-10 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 07:44:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip194.182.235.64.susc.suscom.net [64.235.182.194]) by smtp1.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 3A119D8855 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 07:44:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <09d901c4a2f5$a7ed4ad0$c2b6eb40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040924182917.60725.qmail@web60003.mail.yahoo.com> <002f01c4a270$3dfd8c00$c71117d1@computername> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Partially OT: Was Closets Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 07:49:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Home Ec" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 3:53 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Partially OT: Was Closets >> Some of us who are landlords have found that listing a 3 bedroom as a 2 > bedroom eliminates a lot of the type who crowd many, many people into a > space. I only listed it as a 3 bedroom once. I kept getting people who had > 4 or 5 kids. I rented it to someone who had 2 kids. Within 2 months they > had another couple of relatives up there, with their kid. etc, etc. And it > took me months to repair it after they moved out. without giving me more > than a couple of weeks notice. My DH and I have four children at home--all boys. A 3 bedroom house actually works out quite well for us--two boys in each bedroom. I have lived in my current home for nearly four years, and the only damage my boys have done is some coloring on the walls. I'm sorry you had a bad experience with a family, but please don't paint us all with the same brush. Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 25 11:10:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8PFAfP3017196 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 11:10:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8PF9g4d029742 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Sep 2004 09:09:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8PF9SnX025977; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 09:09:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8PF9LnX025788 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 09:09:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32faf.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.175]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 9D07F47FE47 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 17:09:09 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000f01c4a311$a4d7bcb0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 17:09:20 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] taffeta X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It's VERY beautiful. How heavy is the silver taffeta? It drapes just like the one in the painting, and I've been having trouble figuring out whether modern taffeta is too lightweight. Anyway, gorgeous work! Lauren Hi Lauren, Thanks for your words. I think that taffeta comes in various weights. At least i have seen some lightweight taffetas wich better fits for the later 18th century dresses. The fabric i used was a heavy weight one, and it draped very well. Usually i say that dresses after 1775 should have the light weight taffetas, and vise versa for the earlyer ones. I think that the real fabric on the portrait is a duchesse satin with brocaded flowers. If i would have ben lucky to find such a fabric, i would never be able to pay for it, because it would cost a fortune. As a matter of fact i dont think you can get it today. Taffeta is a very suitable fabric for dresses i think, and they can be decorated in so many ways that will fit each period well. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 25 11:13:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8PFDt2x017220 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 11:13:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8PFDJ4d029908 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Sep 2004 09:13:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8PFDGnX027793; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 09:13:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8PFDBnX027695 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 09:13:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (c-24-21-147-231.client.comcast.net [24.21.147.231]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i8PFD3031526 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 11:13:03 -0400 Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 08:19:13 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] cartridge pleating 16th c. Venetian (was Historical/inspired Hallow'een costumes) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <000201c4a2d6$f690c3c0$b492d6cb@ewalpole> Message-Id: <41D46E88-0F06-11D9-84A5-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hiya, It is a Bordone, but I can't seem to find it right now. I want to say 1540, but I haven't had a full cup of coffee yet and could be wrong. It's a red velvet. :D There is pleating in the skirt, but it is very full and could easily be gathering. The Snow White costume has small tight cartridge pleats as I wanted to really see what the technique would do. Thanks! Althea On Friday, September 24, 2004, at 08:07 PM, Elizabeth Walpole wrote: > >> hiya, >> >> I have a Snow White dress I made as a mock up of a 16thC Venetian >> (worked out dynamics of tie-front to see if it would stay closed and >> my >> first cartridge pleating even though the Venetian didn't have >> cartridge >> pleating). Althea > > > > Of course the fashion for pleating styles changed from year to > year so perhaps you meant that cartridge pleating was not in fashion > for the > style you wanted, what portrait/year/decade were you looking at? > Elizabeth Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com Public Relations Manager Sauron/Voldemort 2004 Bush/Cheney - Bringing Bigotry back to the Constitution. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 25 11:16:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8PFGIi0017245 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 11:16:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8PFFJ4d000131 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Sep 2004 09:15:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8PFFJnX028787; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 09:15:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8PFDhnX027992 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 09:13:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32faf.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.175]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 73B0E5EE010 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 17:13:41 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001701c4a312$4a7f44d0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040924182917.60725.qmail@web60003.mail.yahoo.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040924130857.027776f8@mail.katiesorchids.com><4154835D.7070504@thibault.org> <4154C1AD.2090702@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: Re:New topic was [h-cost] Whoop! whoop! Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 17:14:02 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, This was the case for me when i discovered bobbin lace making. For many years i ignored costume making, and was totally engaged in learning more and making lace. Somehow i have ben fed up two much of bobbin lace making because i rarely makes them these days, except for the quick metal laces i make for the costumes. I also think it has something to do with that you get more impatiente the older you get. My life is two short for fine point ground laces.............. Perhaps also because i have taken up embroidery and enjoys this much better Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 2:54 AM Subject: Re:New topic was [h-cost] Whoop! whoop! > Okay, so here goes with something.... > How many of you have started out with a small idea for a costume or > article/outfit of period clothing (whatever the period), and ended up > picking up entirely different hobbies/skills as a result? > I wanted to make 1, just *one*, outfit that was suitable to an 11th > century Irish/Norse woman living in Dublin. Then, I decided I wanted > authentic fibers, which went to authentic weaves, and now, a year later, > I'm cleaning, combing & spinning wool, playing with period dyes, > weaving, and knitting. I've turned into a fiber freak! > The knitting threatens to take over, all on its own! and all I wanted to > do, reallyreally, was learn just enough to fake a pair of socks/shoe > liners that would have been nalbinded. > *sigh* > --sue, happy martyr to all things fibery & costumey ;o) > > Cynthia Virtue wrote: > > > This thread about how-many-in-an-apartment is going to get very > > political and flameish, very fast. Shall we stop before it gets there > > and talk about clothing? Pick your favorite topic and start chatting. > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 25 11:30:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8PFUs1a017318 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 11:30:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8PFUD4d000974 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Sep 2004 09:30:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8PFU9nX036139; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 09:30:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8PFU7nX036117 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 09:30:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cahuff@mindspring.com) Received: from user-2inikgf.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.121.82.15] helo=[10.0.1.2]) by smtp6.mindspring.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CBEUt-0000zz-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 11:30:06 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200409251514.i8PFDwnZ028134@net.indra.com> References: <200409251514.i8PFDwnZ028134@net.indra.com> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 11:29:39 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: fastusminimus Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: fiber freaks--or how to fill a home! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 9:14 AM -0600 9/25/04, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: >century Irish/Norse woman living in Dublin. Then, I decided I wanted >authentic fibers, which went to authentic weaves, and now, a year later, >I'm cleaning, combing & spinning wool, playing with period dyes, >weaving, and knitting. I've turned into a fiber freak! HeHeHeHe.... And soon you will get sucked in and have multiple looms/wheels and then there are the accessories--Mangle anyone? Then you start realizing that 2 large looms can both fit in your room--and be used! welcome to da insanity...and realize that each era has it's own technology.... Ta Carol, after scrubbing the basement and getting the furnace tuned up and then fixing the sump lines (major ICK!) is finally able to get back to the loom room.... -- Creative Clutter is Better Than Idle Neatness! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 25 12:07:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8PG7qf2017985 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 12:07:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8PG7C4d003044 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Sep 2004 10:07:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8PG78nX054628; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 10:07:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8PG75nY054592 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 10:07:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i8PGCN4L008475 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 12:12:23 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] needs patterns Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 12:18:08 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200409251218.08307.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 24 September 2004 8:21 pm, Althea Turner wrote: > Greetings all, > I would like to make my children warm hats and boots for the winter > season. Does anyone know of a good web site (or paper pattern) for > felt boots and "Lao" hats? Thanks! This page talks about making felt boots. http://www.vertetsable.com/demos_feltboots.htm As for hats, why not get some from the Lao site? Expense? Kids still too small for their sizes? http://www.laohats.com/ If the Lao hats are too big, the woman with the felt boots page also has a page about making Lao-style hats: http://www.vertetsable.com/demos_asianhats.htm Good luck! -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 25 12:39:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8PGd7F8018552 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 12:39:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8PGcK4d004955 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Sep 2004 10:38:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8PGcDnX069965; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 10:38:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail10.mdx.safepages.com (mail10.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.33]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8PGc7nX069887 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 10:38:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail10.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 23819204EF; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 16:38:09 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust167.tnt1.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.148.167]) by mail10.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 60475204AF for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 16:38:07 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <00c801c4a31e$097ed570$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 11:38:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] My next frustration: belts & metalwork X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO So, the other thing I've been trying in great frustration to find is a certain type of belt: http://www.formfunction.org/temp/Deposition1443Girdle_big.jpg I haven't even been able to find any clasp-like components that really satisfied me, so that I could make it myself; they've all been either waaay too small scale, or had no way I could attach them to the belt itself. I've found several people who could likely custom-make a very nice version of these belts, but in this case, I _do_ want to learn to make it myself, since there's just so very many metal details like this that I've been antsy to find/make. I used to do a lot of wire & bead type jewelry making, and my interest in that has been reviving lately, but for my era of interest I'd really need to be able to cast (or whatever) larger scale metal elements. However, I've decided that for this, I'm fine with using modern techniques, as long as the end result looks right from a distance of a few inches. On that note, I came across an interesting sort of material--precious metal clay, and art clay (silver clay stuff). The stuff is tiny metal particles, in a binder that makes it workable as though it were clay; when you fire it, the binder is burnt off, leaving only the metal. The advantages are that it's much simpler to work with, and that you need to invest less in equipment, and also that it's something (I hope) I could do in an apartment. The drawbacks are that the metal clay itself is a good deal more expensive than just buying normal metal, and that the one big equipment cost is a small kiln, which runs ~$600. If I ever want to produce this stuff in multiples, I'll certainly need to learn to cast or whatever, but from what I understand the end result of the clay can be used to make a nice easy mold, so assuming this stuff is worth learning, it would still help me to that end. Has anyone ever tried this stuff? Is it worth it, or would I be better off learning how to cast and all of that mess? Could I really do it in my apartment? Are there any horrible fumes I'd be exposed to? Is there, by any chance, some type of business that might let me buy the occasional scrap of space in their kiln, so that I could try it a few times before buying a kiln? -E House Liberty in Our Lifetime - www.freestateproject.org Coming Soon - http://www.seamcheckers.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 25 13:46:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8PHkub6020310 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 13:46:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8PHix4d009254 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Sep 2004 11:44:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8PHiZnX002445; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 11:44:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8PHiWnX002421 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 11:44:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from claudine_on_the_net@yahoo.com) Received: from h-68-164-159-4.snvacaid.dynamic.covad.net ([68.164.159.4] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CBGb2-00020X-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 10:44:32 -0700 Message-ID: <4155ADCE.3040206@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 10:41:34 -0700 From: Claudine User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7 (Windows/20040616) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: PMC3 [was: Re: [h-cost] My next frustration: belts & metalwork] References: <00c801c4a31e$097ed570$0400a8c0@compaqub> In-Reply-To: <00c801c4a31e$097ed570$0400a8c0@compaqub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi E, Try PMC3; more expensive, but sets at lower temperatures. Also, can you tell us the full title and painter of the artwork you're looking at, and, perhaps, a link to where the whole thing can be seen? Claudine E House wrote: > So, the other thing I've been trying in great frustration to find is a > certain type of belt: > http://www.formfunction.org/temp/Deposition1443Girdle_big.jpg [snipped] > On that note, I came across an interesting sort of material--precious metal > clay, and art clay (silver clay stuff). The stuff is tiny metal particles, [snipped] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 25 14:10:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8PIAglm020701 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 14:10:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8PI9v4d010779 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Sep 2004 12:09:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8PI9onX015498; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 12:09:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from navgw.mccc.edu (navgw.mccc.edu [198.133.170.231]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8PI9mnY015447 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 12:09:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pinner@mccc.edu) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu ([198.133.170.1]) by navgw.mccc.edu (SMSSMTP 4.0.0.59) with SMTP id M2004092514094027441 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 14:09:40 -0400 Received: from TH103A ([198.133.170.246]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.11.4) with ESMTP id i8PI9e8O005446 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 14:09:40 -0400 (EDT) From: "Kate Pinner" To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 14:09:35 -0400 Message-ID: <651C586D272B24428B045AA9CF0B2F90A91006@mcmail01.wwc.mccc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Afghan cloak? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What is this that the president of Afghanistan is wearing? http://portal.unesco.org/fr/ev.php-URL_ID=1456 &URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&URL_SECTION=201.html http://www.afgha.com/?af=article &sid=13207 http://portal.unesco.org/fr/ev.php-URL_ID=1433 &URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&URL_SECTION=201.html http://www.islamfortoday.com/afghanistan.htm Kate Pinner Technical Co-ordinator & Costume Designer Kelsey Theatre Mercer County College _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 25 14:36:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8PIaTQ2021260 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 14:36:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8PIZm4d012554 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Sep 2004 12:35:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8PIZgnX027972; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 12:35:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from indirectobject.com (066-241-084-045.bus.ashlandfiber.net [66.241.84.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8PIZenX027932 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 12:35:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rreed@indirectobject.com) Message-Id: <200409251835.i8PIZenX027932@net.indra.com> Received: from synergy ([192.168.1.1]) by indirectobject.com (WWW [192.168.1.200]) (MDaemon.PRO.v6.8.5.R) with ESMTP id 38-md50000000003.tmp for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 11:35:03 -0700 From: To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] My next frustration: belts & metalwork Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 11:33:12 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 In-Reply-To: <00c801c4a31e$097ed570$0400a8c0@compaqub> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-Index: AcSjHrHEIsZOiaA5Rc+B9YupwmIJ3gADo08A X-Spam-Processed: WWW, Sat, 25 Sep 2004 11:35:03 -0700 (not processed: message from valid local sender) X-MDRemoteIP: 192.168.1.1 X-Return-Path: rreed@indirectobject.com X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Has anyone ever tried this stuff? Is it worth it, or would I be better off learning how to cast and all of that mess? Could I really do it in my apartment? Are there any horrible fumes I'd be exposed to? Is there, by any chance, some type of business that might let me buy the occasional scrap of space in their kiln, so that I could try it a few times before buying a kiln? I think it would be worth a try. I have researched it but haven't gotten enough money together to get into a project yet. Go to your local library and look up books on precious metal clay and jewelry making. One is: Creative metal clay jewelry: techniques, projects, inspiration, by CeCe Wire. There is also a video called Intermediate Techniques, by Celie Fago. You need to start out with some cheaper metal; I know there are different grades. Fire Mountain Gems just started carrying the stuff and there are also some websites that cater to this market. There is about a 30% shrinkage. Check around your local area to see if there are any ceramics shops that have kilns you could rent or borrow. Make sure the temperature will work -- I can't remember but I know this clay takes a certain temp. Let us know what you decide to do. I'd be curious how the project goes if you decide to try it. Becky _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 25 15:32:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8PJW3nA022307 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 15:32:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8PJUq4d015834 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Sep 2004 13:30:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8PJUEnX055056; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 13:30:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail4.mdx.safepages.com (mail4.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.19]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8PJUCnX055016 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 13:30:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail4.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 6D4BA267C6; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 19:30:10 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust21.tnt1.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.148.21]) by mail4.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id CE45B267D8 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 19:30:08 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <011201c4a336$143251a0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <00c801c4a31e$097ed570$0400a8c0@compaqub> <4155ADCE.3040206@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: PMC3 [was: Re: [h-cost] My next frustration: belts & metalwork] Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 14:30:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yeah, sorry; 'precious metal clay' = PMC, PMC+, and PMC3. Info on the picture can be found here: http://www.wga.hu/html/w/weyden/rogier/01deposi/1deposit.html -E House Liberty in Our Lifetime - www.freestateproject.org Coming Soon - http://www.seamcheckers.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 25 16:18:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8PKIQgG023498 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 16:18:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8PKHA4d018356 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Sep 2004 14:17:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8PKGTnX076840; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 14:16:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8PKGQnY076806 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 14:16:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i8PKLht2013501 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 16:21:43 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] needs patterns Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 16:27:29 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <200409251218.08307.cathy@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: <200409251218.08307.cathy@thyrsus.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200409251627.29068.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Saturday 25 September 2004 12:18 pm, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: Lao Hats actually has a few children's size hats on sale in their clearance section--one of them is as cheap as $15 US: http://www.laohats.com/shop/index.php?shop=1&cat=7&cart=1945 -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 25 16:51:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8PKpYrh024382 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 16:51:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8PKmV4d020370 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Sep 2004 14:48:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8PKlonX091852; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 14:47:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8PKlknY091802 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 14:47:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i8PKjNTA022285 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 16:45:23 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 16:45:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4155D970.70207@thibault.org> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 16:47:44 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] My next frustration: belts & metalwork References: <00c801c4a31e$097ed570$0400a8c0@compaqub> In-Reply-To: <00c801c4a31e$097ed570$0400a8c0@compaqub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Fire Mountain's kit includes a little torch, rather than a kiln -- much smaller, cheaper. What you would do ultimately is use pewter in a soapstone mold. Neither of these things are expensive; I know some of the student types in my old group were experimenting with them and producing fairly good things after a bit of practice. Were it me, I'd probably check Billie & Charley's website for a clasp, and work on making the smaller leather mounts myself. You can work up to your own clasp later. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du PrĂŠ Argent Register to vote! Don't let that other guy win! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 25 17:10:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8PLAfYq024500 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 17:10:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8PL9S4d022535 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Sep 2004 15:09:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8PL8nnX002969; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 15:08:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.193]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8PL8inX002928 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 15:08:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jacquelinejbump@gmail.com) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 78so172188rnk for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 14:08:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.14.21 with SMTP id 21mr536346rnn; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 14:08:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.14.59 with HTTP; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 14:08:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4c5accc8040925140874a5dc2a@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 17:08:44 -0400 From: Kristalori History To: Historical Costume Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Swimsuit question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ok I recall one of the pattern makers (no not the big 4) like Truly Victorian or someone making a vintage swimsuit pattern. I know Folkwear has one but the one I recall had about 20 pieces to it and could make swimsuits from the 1860's all the way up to a two piece number from the 30's. Now do any of you link collectors have links to pattern companies that make vintage swimsuit patterns? I need patterns only please. Bice -- "Pardon me, Lady Tudor Glitz, but telling people things aren't period isn't period." Italian Ladies 2005 Calendar http://www.lulu.com/kristalori _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 25 19:22:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8PNMeJM025176 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 19:22:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8PNLv4d001034 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Sep 2004 17:21:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8PNLhnX064188; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 17:21:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8PNLgnX064176 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 17:21:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.100]) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CBLrI-0006x6-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 16:21:41 -0700 Message-ID: <4155FD8A.6030700@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 16:21:46 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <000f01c4a311$a4d7bcb0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <000f01c4a311$a4d7bcb0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Duchesse Satin: was-taffeta X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >........ i would >never be able to pay for it, because it would cost a fortune. As a matter of >fact i dont think you can get it today......... > > You can get it (Thai Silks below) . Tis a bit pricey though! *Code* *Name* *Price* 009B Double Sided Satin, 40mm, 45" Nat $23.00 Dye $25.10 09DW Doupioni Satin, 22mm, 54" Dye $18.30 11CW Duchesse Satin, 54" Dye $29.00 09BW Double Sided Satin, 40mm, 54" Nat $25.00 Dye $30.55 009R Silk/Linen Satin, 45" Nat $12.90 Nat is the price of Natural Fabric Dye is the price of Dyed Fabric _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 25 20:45:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8Q0jB3D025465 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 20:45:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8Q0iM4d006512 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Sep 2004 18:44:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8Q0iHnX003271; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 18:44:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8Q0iDnX003164 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 18:44:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-8.13) id A0D43D3F012A; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 20:44:04 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.101 ([209.131.81.101] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 26 Sep 04 00:43:59 -0000 Message-ID: <003301c4a362$e76b2de0$655183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <199.2ec75c4b.2e862d6c@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shopping! Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 20:51:04 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ann, wouldn't you say that is hard to get out of Wrights under $100.? I usually manage to get there once a year...with a shopping list...and so many things jump into me cart...that I NEED! The bargain bins are so hard to ignore, where you can get a whole bolt of, say, cupped sequins at $3.oo for 50 yards, on the automatic mark down rack. I have tried to make it for the 'free' stuff but my timing availability is usually off. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 10:09 PM Subject: [h-cost] Shopping! > My husband said I should share this with the list. We had a whirlwind trip to > New England last week (almost literally--Hurricane Ivan followed us most of > the way). Anyway, we just had time to visit the Wright's Trim Outlet store in > Sturbridge, Massachusetts. I stocked up on tassels in various sizes and colors > to trim reticules, got 10 packs of various sizes and colors of bias tape for > $1.00, and bought some extra wide ruffled eyelet trim for an eventual square > dance dress. > > Ann Wass > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 25 21:03:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8Q13E6j025527 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 21:03:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8Q12X4d007438 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Sep 2004 19:02:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8Q12UnX011516; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 19:02:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8Q12SnX011470 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 19:02:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-8.13) id A51E2ACE00B8; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 21:02:22 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.101 ([209.131.81.101] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 26 Sep 04 01:02:20 -0000 Message-ID: <007801c4a365$77a76520$655183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200409251218.08307.cathy@thyrsus.com> <200409251627.29068.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] needs patterns Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 21:09:26 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't know if this stuff strikes the availability question, but it is certainly "costume"! www.oddisgood.home.att.net Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine Olanich Raymond" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 4:27 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] needs patterns > On Saturday 25 September 2004 12:18 pm, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > > Lao Hats actually has a few children's size hats on sale in their clearance > section--one of them is as cheap as $15 US: > > http://www.laohats.com/shop/index.php?shop=1&cat=7&cart=1945 > -- > Cathy Raymond > > "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue > that counts."--Winston Churchill > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 25 21:20:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8Q1KHY1025582 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 21:20:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8Q1Jc4d008664 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Sep 2004 19:19:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8Q1JXnX019337; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 19:19:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8Q1JRnX019292 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 19:19:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.100]) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CBNhG-0002xQ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 18:19:26 -0700 Message-ID: <41561924.7060309@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 18:19:32 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <000f01c4a311$a4d7bcb0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <4155FD8A.6030700@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <4155FD8A.6030700@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Duchesse Satin: Sorry about that! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Egads! Forgive me for that awful mess! Perhaps it is best just to go there yourself and check out the prices!!! http://www.thaisilks.com/ > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 25 22:21:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8Q2L4Bg025860 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 22:21:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8Q2KI4d012270 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Sep 2004 20:20:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8Q2KDnX047398; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 20:20:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8Q2K6nX047342 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 20:20:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.105] (p41.3c02.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.105]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i8Q2IV209782 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 20:18:31 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <651C586D272B24428B045AA9CF0B2F90A91006@mcmail01.wwc.mccc.com> References: <651C586D272B24428B045AA9CF0B2F90A91006@mcmail01.wwc.mccc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <29126A71-0F63-11D9-B9A4-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Afghan cloak? Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 20:24:14 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The only name I can find for these coats comes from a book I have on Turkestan which has been both north of Afghanistan and part of Afghanistan in the past. There they are called chapans. Sylrog On Sep 25, 2004, at 12:09 PM, Kate Pinner wrote: > What is this that the president of Afghanistan is wearing? > > > > http://portal.unesco.org/fr/ev.php-URL_ID=1456 > URL_ID=1456&URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&URL_SECT > ION=201.html> &URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&URL_SECTION=201.html > > http://www.afgha.com/?af=article > &sid=13207 > > > > http://portal.unesco.org/fr/ev.php-URL_ID=1433 > URL_ID=1433&URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&URL_SECT > ION=201.html> &URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&URL_SECTION=201.html > > http://www.islamfortoday.com/afghanistan.htm > > > > Kate Pinner > > Technical Co-ordinator & Costume Designer > > Kelsey Theatre > > Mercer County College > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 25 23:51:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8Q3pVhA026274 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 23:51:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8Q3oj4d017475 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Sep 2004 21:50:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8Q3oZnX089608; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 21:50:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8Q3oXnX089551 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 21:50:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (c-24-21-147-231.client.comcast.net [24.21.147.231]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i8Q3oSK01258 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 23:50:28 -0400 Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 20:56:39 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] needs patterns Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <200409251218.08307.cathy@thyrsus.com> Message-Id: <11AD9201-0F70-11D9-84A5-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO hello, I don't want t buy them because I want to make them myself. :D Thanks for the web site! Althea On Saturday, September 25, 2004, at 09:18 AM, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > On Friday 24 September 2004 8:21 pm, Althea Turner wrote: >> Greetings all, >> I would like to make my children warm hats and boots for the winter >> season. Does anyone know of a good web site (or paper pattern) for >> felt boots and "Lao" hats? Thanks! > > > As for hats, why not get some from the Lao site? Expense? Kids still > too > small for their sizes? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 26 09:54:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8QDs5oJ008391 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 09:54:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8QDrG4d002563 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 26 Sep 2004 07:53:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8QDr4nX050015; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 07:53:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8QDr0nX049916 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 07:53:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fac.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.172]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id D84DF262841 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 15:52:47 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001901c4a3d0$26f6f3a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000f01c4a311$a4d7bcb0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711><4155FD8A.6030700@earthlink.net> <41561924.7060309@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Duchesse Satin: Sorry about that! Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 15:53:04 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I think you misunderstood what i said. I said that the original dress is made of a duchesse satin with brocaded flowers. I know you still gets duchesse satin, i am making something of it right now, but you cant get it with wowen motifs............. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wicked Frau" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 3:19 AM Subject: [h-cost] Duchesse Satin: Sorry about that! > Egads! Forgive me for that awful mess! > > Perhaps it is best just to go there yourself and check out the prices!!! > > http://www.thaisilks.com/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 26 11:57:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8QFvMsB008982 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 11:57:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8QFua4d009944 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 26 Sep 2004 09:56:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8QFuUnX005816; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 09:56:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8QFuRnY005784 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 09:56:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i8QFuNR9018405 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 11:56:24 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040926085348.02798588@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 08:56:25 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: [h-cost] Duchesse Satin: was-taffeta In-Reply-To: <4155FD8A.6030700@earthlink.net> References: <000f01c4a311$a4d7bcb0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <000f01c4a311$a4d7bcb0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Show off my ignorance time -- What's the difference between Duchesse Satin and Taffeta? I once lined a wool skirt with taffeta -- I loved the sound it made as I moved -- so subtly sexy! Of course that was when I was tall and willowy rather than tall and mature . Katie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 26 12:36:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8QGaIWZ009166 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 12:36:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8QGZb4d012512 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 26 Sep 2004 10:35:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8QGZXnX023392; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 10:35:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8QGZTnX023360 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 10:35:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fac.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.172]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id CD72947FE27 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 18:35:26 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000c01c4a3e6$e1fd5ca0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000f01c4a311$a4d7bcb0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711><000f01c4a311$a4d7bcb0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <5.2.0.9.0.20040926085348.02798588@mail.katiesorchids.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Duchesse Satin: was-taffeta Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 18:35:49 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Kate, It is the weawing that makes the differense. Taffeta is very tight wowen and the thread is twisted much. Satin is weawed in another way, to make it shine much more. But you need to get experts to explain it better, i am not very knoledged in weawing teckniques. Satin also is softer and it falls heavier. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katie Pleasance" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 5:56 PM Subject: [h-cost] Duchesse Satin: was-taffeta > Show off my ignorance time -- > > What's the difference between Duchesse Satin and Taffeta? > > I once lined a wool skirt with taffeta -- I loved the sound it made as I > moved -- so subtly sexy! Of course that was when I was tall and willowy > rather than tall and mature . > > Katie > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 26 13:01:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8QH1NSs009422 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 13:01:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8QH0g4d014227 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 26 Sep 2004 11:00:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8QH0VnX034471; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 11:00:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8QH0SnX034436 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 11:00:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.100]) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CBcNv-0001RQ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 10:00:28 -0700 Message-ID: <4156F5B4.8060701@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 10:00:36 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Duchesse Satin: Sorry about that! References: <000f01c4a311$a4d7bcb0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711><4155FD8A.6030700@earthlink.net> <41561924.7060309@earthlink.net> <001901c4a3d0$26f6f3a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <001901c4a3d0$26f6f3a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Whoops, must not have read carefully! Sg Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >Hi, >I think you misunderstood what i said. I said that the original dress is >made of a duchesse satin with brocaded flowers. >I know you still gets duchesse satin, i am making something of it right now, >but you cant get it with wowen motifs............. > >Bjarne > > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 26 13:35:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8QHZVxI009548 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 13:35:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8QHYl4d016276 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 26 Sep 2004 11:34:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8QHYenX049233; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 11:34:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8QHYbnX049142 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 11:34:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1CBcuo-000FUP-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 17:34:26 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 18:33:13 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15thC shoe sellers? References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In message , Marc Carlson writes >I have a small problem personally with answering questions like this, >so please bear with me. Of the people currently referred to in this >thread, were I to spend money buying shoes from someone else, I'd use >Historic Enterprises. I am reluctant to comment further since I don't >want to appear critical of anyone who's trying to make shoes for a >living on the off chance that it might in fact matter to someone :) >Also, I am not familiar with the medieval shoes done by either >members.lycos.co.uk/KnightOE or Plantagenet (note, I'd likely go to >Plantagenet for their later period stuff though). > >You may have a problem wanting dressy and inexpensive. You best bet is >to talk to one of these (or any others) shoemakers and see if they'll >do something more special for you -- but they are likely to charge more >for that. > > >I'm sorry I can't be more help than that. > >Marc > I have a pair of Plantagenet's 12th century, which are well made and very comfortable, and I felt they were quite reasonably priced for buying reenactment shoes. As with buying any reenactment clothing, it's not a cheap thing to do, but it is oh so worth it to have dry and happy feet! Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 26 13:40:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8QHefYm009572 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 13:40:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8QHdp4d016625 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 26 Sep 2004 11:39:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8QHdonX051684; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 11:39:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8QHdlnX051654 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 11:39:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1CBczy-000G8n-0W for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 17:39:46 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 18:38:42 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] British university scarves + TYVM for URL References: <41545ED0.4090000@thibault.org> <20040924201918.18174.qmail@web53103.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040924201918.18174.qmail@web53103.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO julian wilson wrote >Dear Cynthia, >thank you for the URL to C.M.O.T. Dibbler's website- I did a Discworld >websearch after e-mailing you the first time - but that particular link >didn't come up. > >As to the other question, I couldn't say, but am glad to have opened a >very tiny, very local window into the Past for you. >BTW, in England, at the least, there is usually only one Outfitter per >Town authorised to sell the School Uniform of a particular School. It >was so in Southend-on-Sea, Essex, when I was young; and it was >certainly so over here in Jersey while our two sons were of "school age". >I think that may have had something to do with notions of commercial >fairness, spreading the business around the local tradespeople. >What the situation may be now as far as UK Uniiversities are concerned, >I know not; - but perhaps other UK-educated Graduates on this List may >be able to advise us with respect the their own particular experiences. >Cordially, >Julian, in "olde" Jersey > Apart from those private schools that want to be terribly exclusive, most schools now recognise that school uniform can be very expensive, and choose basics that can be bought from high street shops. A lot of state schools ("public schools" in the US) have a school sweatshirt with their badge or logo on, which can be bought through the school. And there's often a second-hand uniform shop run through the school to reduce the cost for items like blazers and ties. University clothing is of course not compulsory, and usually available to students and visitors through the student shop. Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 26 15:11:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8QJBdOA011484 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 15:11:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8QJAo4d023422 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 26 Sep 2004 13:10:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8QJAfnX092626; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 13:10:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta9.adelphia.net (mta9.adelphia.net [68.168.78.199]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8QJAenX092572 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 13:10:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from randl@adelphia.net) Received: from adelphia.net ([69.169.181.2]) by mta9.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.02 201-2131-111-104-20040324) with ESMTP id <20040926191033.KKIK27370.mta9.adelphia.net@adelphia.net> for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 15:10:33 -0400 Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 15:10:33 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15thC shoe sellers? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: randl@adelphia.net To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <200409261800.i8QI0qnY061726@net.indra.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Does anyone here own the Bohemond Mary Rose shoe, or has seen said shoe up close and personal? Laurie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 26 19:52:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8QNqcpH012902 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 19:52:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8QNpo4d011179 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 26 Sep 2004 17:51:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8QNpdnX021723; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 17:51:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m17.mx.aol.com (imo-m17.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.207]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8QNpanX021655 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 17:51:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.7.) id 6.1c4.1edbb4dd (17526) for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 19:51:26 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <1c4.1edbb4dd.2e88affe@aol.com> Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 19:51:26 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shopping! To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5031 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/25/2004 8:45:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, rmitchell@washjeff.edu writes: Ann, wouldn't you say that is hard to get out of Wrights under $100.? I I didn't have a list, and had limited time, so it was about $30. But I didn't even GET to the ribbon! Ann _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 26 19:57:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8QNv4qb012924 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 19:57:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8QNuL4d011548 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 26 Sep 2004 17:56:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8QNuLnX023957; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 17:56:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web51310.mail.yahoo.com (web51310.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.176]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8QNuJnX023925 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 17:56:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elvestoorder@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040926235614.4876.qmail@web51310.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.237.35.156] by web51310.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 16:56:14 PDT Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 16:56:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Ann Catelli Subject: Wright's outlet Re: [h-cost] Shopping! To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <1c4.1edbb4dd.2e88affe@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A different Ann replies-- Yes! And I tend not to use trim, so it's pure greed. Ann in CT--one hour away from Sturbridge & travelling thro' there a lot to visit the Worcester area. --- AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: > rmitchell@washjeff.edu writes: > Ann, wouldn't you say that is hard to get out of > Wrights under $100.? I > I didn't have a list, and had limited time, so it > was about $30. But I didn't > even GET to the ribbon! > > Ann __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 26 20:48:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8R0mtLv013209 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 20:48:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8R0mA4d015381 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 26 Sep 2004 18:48:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8R0m6nX047472; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 18:48:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from relay2.mail2web.com (relay2.mail2web.com [168.144.1.82]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8R0m2nX047394 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 18:48:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nflinn@umassd.edu) Received: from M2W070.mail2web.com ([168.144.251.179]) by relay2.mail2web.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Sun, 26 Sep 2004 20:47:27 -0400 Message-ID: <325140-22004912704749507@M2W070.mail2web.com> X-Priority: 3 X-Originating-IP: 66.153.67.22 X-URL: http://mail2web.com/ From: "nflinn@umassd.edu" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 20:47:49 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Sep 2004 00:47:27.0116 (UTC) FILETIME=[8F7DECC0:01C4A42B] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i8R0m2nX047394 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 782 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, so glad to hear from you, and sorry to hear about your mother. I will say a prayer that all goes well. I had only about one week to get everything together, but I think it should be OK. Lots of different scenes and new people. I know Bren was asking about you and hoped all was well. Paul asked for you too. It would be great if you could pop in on Monday, there might be a few odds and ends he needs like a yoyo and bean bags. I couldn't find any around. Did I tell you I am teaching there? It is a Costume design class as a directed study. Well I will call. I have so much to do with the wedding. Good luck with things and I will keep you mom in my prayers. Nancy Original Message: ----------------- From: h-costume-request@indra.com Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 12:00:52 -0600 (MDT) To: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 782 Send h-costume mailing list submissions to h-costume@mail.indra.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to h-costume-request@mail.indra.com You can reach the person managing the list at h-costume-owner@mail.indra.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of h-costume digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Duchesse Satin: Sorry about that! (Wicked Frau) 2. Re: 15thC shoe sellers? (Jean Waddie) 3. Re: British university scarves + TYVM for URL (Jean Waddie) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 10:00:36 -0700 From: Wicked Frau Subject: Re: [h-cost] Duchesse Satin: Sorry about that! To: Historical Costume Message-ID: <4156F5B4.8060701@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Whoops, must not have read carefully! Sg Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >Hi, >I think you misunderstood what i said. I said that the original dress is >made of a duchesse satin with brocaded flowers. >I know you still gets duchesse satin, i am making something of it right now, >but you cant get it with wowen motifs............. > >Bjarne > > > > > ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 18:33:13 +0100 From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15thC shoe sellers? To: Historical Costume Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed In message , Marc Carlson writes >I have a small problem personally with answering questions like this, >so please bear with me. Of the people currently referred to in this >thread, were I to spend money buying shoes from someone else, I'd use >Historic Enterprises. I am reluctant to comment further since I don't >want to appear critical of anyone who's trying to make shoes for a >living on the off chance that it might in fact matter to someone :) >Also, I am not familiar with the medieval shoes done by either >members.lycos.co.uk/KnightOE or Plantagenet (note, I'd likely go to >Plantagenet for their later period stuff though). > >You may have a problem wanting dressy and inexpensive. You best bet is >to talk to one of these (or any others) shoemakers and see if they'll >do something more special for you -- but they are likely to charge more >for that. > > >I'm sorry I can't be more help than that. > >Marc > I have a pair of Plantagenet's 12th century, which are well made and very comfortable, and I felt they were quite reasonably priced for buying reenactment shoes. As with buying any reenactment clothing, it's not a cheap thing to do, but it is oh so worth it to have dry and happy feet! Jean -- Jean Waddie ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 18:38:42 +0100 From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] British university scarves + TYVM for URL To: Historical Costume Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed julian wilson wrote >Dear Cynthia, >thank you for the URL to C.M.O.T. Dibbler's website- I did a Discworld >websearch after e-mailing you the first time - but that particular link >didn't come up. > >As to the other question, I couldn't say, but am glad to have opened a >very tiny, very local window into the Past for you. >BTW, in England, at the least, there is usually only one Outfitter per >Town authorised to sell the School Uniform of a particular School. It >was so in Southend-on-Sea, Essex, when I was young; and it was >certainly so over here in Jersey while our two sons were of "school age". >I think that may have had something to do with notions of commercial >fairness, spreading the business around the local tradespeople. >What the situation may be now as far as UK Uniiversities are concerned, >I know not; - but perhaps other UK-educated Graduates on this List may >be able to advise us with respect the their own particular experiences. >Cordially, >Julian, in "olde" Jersey > Apart from those private schools that want to be terribly exclusive, most schools now recognise that school uniform can be very expensive, and choose basics that can be bought from high street shops. A lot of state schools ("public schools" in the US) have a school sweatshirt with their badge or logo on, which can be bought through the school. And there's often a second-hand uniform shop run through the school to reduce the cost for items like blazers and ties. University clothing is of course not compulsory, and usually available to students and visitors through the student shop. Jean -- Jean Waddie ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume End of h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 782 ***************************************** -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 27 00:06:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8R46X1l014100 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 00:06:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8R45o4d000408 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 26 Sep 2004 22:05:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8R45MnX043616; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 22:05:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f29.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.79]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8R458nX043491 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 22:05:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 21:05:02 -0700 Received: from 129.244.96.86 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 04:04:22 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.96.86] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 23:04:22 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Sep 2004 04:05:02.0296 (UTC) FILETIME=[29BAD580:01C4A447] X-DCC-SINECTIS-Metrics: net.indra.com 1114; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 15thC shoes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO After looking through my notes and files for 1420-1520, I must say that there are some really nice options for shoes. By 1420, toes had pretty much shortened again, although in honesty for much of the 14th and 15th centuries, shoes with long points versus shorter rounder toes seems to be a class issue. One thing that seems to be fairly popular during the 15th century are side laced ankle or high shoes. The brass of Nicholas Canteys (d. 1431) shows a pair of such shoes with a semi-pointed toe, decorated with a pattern of stars (that might be punched from the uppers, or painted). Punched patterns on shoes began to be popular in the late 14th century and remained as an option until at least the 1440s. During this whole period though, the illustrations don't show a whole lot of decorations. Shoes are mostly depicted as single colors, black usually. There are also lots of buttons, and buckles on short boots. However, short shoes, below the ankle are still quite common (for example, fig. 387 in Bouchet shows fairly short semi-pointed shoes - although many shoes with this profile in statuary are actually showing the bottom edge of armored leg pieces). An interesting design shown in several illustrations in Das Hausbuch are such boots, with black quarters and vamps, and the area above the ankle made from white leather and buttons. Points start to slowly increase in length again for middle class shoes by the 1430s, and by the 1450s are quite noticable. Shoes without pointed toes may have peaked vamps and/or peaked quarters. By the 1470s, long peaked toes seem to be the thing for the upper classes. In the mid 1480s rounded toes started appearing among the middle and upper classes, as the new technology of non-turned shoes came about - although curiously semi-pointed toe turn shoes remained for a while after that for the lower middle and lower classes. After the rounded shoes come in, there are a number of variations, starting with big round toes. By the 1520s, flat fronted wide shoes have come in. However, by that point, the poor and lower middle classes are still wearing round toed turn shoes. Marc _________________________________________________________________ Check out Election 2004 for up-to-date election news, plus voter tools and more! http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 27 00:15:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8R4Fb9a014119 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 00:15:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8R4Eu4d001101 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 26 Sep 2004 22:14:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8R4EtnX048319; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 22:14:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hall.mail.mindspring.net (hall.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8R4EmnX048280 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 22:14:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) Received: from 209-165-40-167.jps.net ([209.165.40.167]) by hall.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CBmuV-0008CD-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 00:14:47 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4154C1AD.2090702@in-tch.com> References: <20040924182917.60725.qmail@web60003.mail.yahoo.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040924130857.027776f8@mail.katiesorchids.com> <4154835D.7070504@thibault.org> <4154C1AD.2090702@in-tch.com> Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 17:05:00 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: New topic was Whoop! whoop! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 6:54 PM -0600 9/24/04, Sue Clemenger wrote: >Okay, so here goes with something.... >How many of you have started out with a small idea for a costume or >article/outfit of period clothing (whatever the period), and ended >up picking up entirely different hobbies/skills as a result? Mine's an accessory story rather than a garment -- otherwise very similar. I've done Renaissance Faire for a number of years with a guild (the Guild of St. George) that aims for as much authenticity as possible. Quite a few of our people portray real characters from 16th-century England, and one of them asked me, "So -- my character was a Catholic and I want to carry a rosary. Would it have looked like modern ones?" "I don't know," I said, and started looking. Four years later, I have a collection of about 15 replicas of period rosaries and paternosters, with more in the plans (or lying in parts in my project box). I've learned how to string beads and knot them, make wrapped loops in wirework, and am contemplating learning pewter casting to make some of the parts I can't find for sale (creative shopping has been a big part of the project). In my case it's been more of a knowledge and research thing than learning new "hand skills," but since I always thought of myself as a "fiber geek," it's interesting to me that I'm now pursuing metal work as well. (Just bought my first book on the subject...) As for art clay / precious metal clay -- the stuff Fire Mountain has just started selling has the advantage of being a "low-firing" type -- according to their catalog, you can fire it either with a mini-torch (about $40) or on top of a gas stove. It's also (according to them) made from finer particles of silver to make more durable products, and has Art and Creative Materials Institute approval, whatever that means (I would hope it's a safety endorsement, but haven't had occasion to look it up yet). They also sell a simple casting compound that can be used with the Art Clay. I'd use it in a minute (well, as soon as the budget can handle it anyway!) except that my SCA Laurel (mentor) has challenged me to learn to use "period" methods. -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 27 00:30:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8R4Ud0i014146 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 00:30:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8R4PR5J001751 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 26 Sep 2004 22:28:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8R49lnX045811; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 22:09:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8R49inX045793 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 22:09:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from costumrs@radiks.net) Received: from user-12l20gu.cable.mindspring.com ([69.81.2.30] helo=pierre-ynmjysj2.radiks.net) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CBmpb-0005A8-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 21:09:43 -0700 Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.2.20040926225316.0252dc38@pop.radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net@pop.radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 22:56:08 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <200409261636.i8QGaDnY023676@net.indra.com> References: <200409261636.i8QGaDnY023676@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Kilns X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Also, for example, our (Lincoln, NE) parks and rec department holds various classes, including ceramics and china painting. Our teacher told us if we wanted to do projects outside of class, we could arrange to use the kiln. So perhaps this is another possibility?? Sandy At 11:36 AM 9/26/2004, you wrote: > >Has anyone ever tried this stuff? Is it worth it, or would I be better off >learning how to cast and all of that mess? Could I really do it in my >apartment? Are there any horrible fumes I'd be exposed to? Is there, by any >chance, some type of business that might let me buy the occasional scrap of >space in their kiln, so that I could try it a few times before buying a >kiln? "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed to Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly -- Why They Are Simply Doomed. Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 27 04:29:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8R8TnaJ030246 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 04:29:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8R8Su4d014618 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Sep 2004 02:28:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8R8SinX053724; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 02:28:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8R8SbnX053550 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 02:28:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i8R8SEa24817.; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 09:28:14 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 09:28:14 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 09:27:51 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] british school scarves Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO When I was at school in the 50s and 60s we had a knitted scarf with stripes across. I was a university student in the early 70s and only know of fabric scarves with lengthwise stripes. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 27 10:19:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8REJBaC015681 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 10:19:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8REI94d015509 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Sep 2004 08:18:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8REHYnX011854; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 08:17:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8REHVnX011740 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 08:17:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-8.13) id A0F22EA50138; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 10:17:22 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.106 ([209.131.81.106] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 27 Sep 04 14:17:21 -0000 Message-ID: <003501c4a49d$b23a4340$6a5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1c4.1edbb4dd.2e88affe@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shopping! Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 10:24:27 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO La! Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 7:51 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shopping! > In a message dated 9/25/2004 8:45:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, > rmitchell@washjeff.edu writes: > Ann, wouldn't you say that is hard to get out of Wrights under $100.? I > I didn't have a list, and had limited time, so it was about $30. But I didn't > even GET to the ribbon! > > Ann > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 27 10:43:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8REhCSX015810 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 10:43:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8REgM4d017797 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Sep 2004 08:42:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8REgFnX030537; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 08:42:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8REgAnX030384 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 08:42:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-8.13) id A6BC68380092; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 10:42:04 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.106 ([209.131.81.106] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 27 Sep 04 14:42:02 -0000 Message-ID: <009201c4a4a1$253d97e0$6a5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "H-Costume" Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 10:49:08 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] ephaney X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i8REhCSX015810 Status: RO I had some sort of Epiphany last eve. After following Bjarne's description of the up coming replication project, I was at Michael's yesterday and found several different skeins of contemporary 'chenille (the stuff of which the contemporary scarf rage is using) and thought "why not". I know it is 'polli'but when the look is wanted and the purse is not full enough to indulge in silk, how would it work? So I spent the evening 'playing' with it to see just what effects might be possible to create texture for ornamentation. I am now excited and abuzz with visions of re creating that I had been avoiding because of the mere expense. And I also can see that judicious use of "eyelash" presents possibilities too! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 27 11:34:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8RFYQtM016055 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 11:34:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RFXM4d023893 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Sep 2004 09:33:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RFXDnX071794; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 09:33:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.254.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RFX9nX071722 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 09:33:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 16:32:56 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: RE: [h-cost] 15thC shoe sellers? To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3AEA@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] 15thC shoe sellers? Thread-Index: AcSidGr/cnjBwhHFTPiinL0mtKawwwCMlGYQ content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.20 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I have a small problem personally with answering questions like this, so > please bear with me. Of the people currently referred to in this thread, > were I to spend money buying shoes from someone else, I'd use Historic > Enterprises. I am reluctant to comment further since I don't want to appear > critical of anyone who's trying to make shoes for a living on the off chance > that it might in fact matter to someone :) Also, I am not familiar with the > medieval shoes done by either members.lycos.co.uk/KnightOE or Plantagenet > (note, I'd likely go to Plantagenet for their later period stuff though). Plantagenet made my lined bucket-top boots for 17th century and they are superb (and oh so comfortable) I've not bought 15th cnetury shoes from them but 've handlesd them, they look good and I've not heard anyone complaining about problems with them. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 27 11:42:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8RFgDZh016082 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 11:42:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RFfU4d024785 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Sep 2004 09:41:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RFfQnX078812; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 09:41:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from alpha2.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (alpha2.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.0.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RFfJnX078690 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 09:41:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 16:41:15 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: RE: [h-cost] Historical/inspired Hallow'een costumes To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3AEB@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Historical/inspired Hallow'een costumes Thread-Index: AcSilSMZwCd1Yf7TTC+J/dybZJpMJgCEvyzA content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.20 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO [h-cost] Historical/inspired Hallow'een costumes > Any of you doing historical or historical-inspired halloween costumes > for yourselves, family, or friends? Bugger! Hallow'een is approaching and I haven't *begun* to think what to wear to a friend's party. I have too much to do for an upcoming to start anything before October 19th.... Aaaargh! Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 27 11:47:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8RFlPqH016108 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 11:47:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RFke4d025384 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Sep 2004 09:46:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RFjYnX082227; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 09:45:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from uni04mr.unity.ncsu.edu (uni04mr.unity.ncsu.edu [152.1.1.167]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RFiUnX081128 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 09:44:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from david_serxner@ncsu.edu) Received: from [152.1.24.106] (acq-gss4421.lib.ncsu.edu [152.1.24.106]) by uni04mr.unity.ncsu.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10/N.20040817.03) with ESMTP id i8RFiNhO015943 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 11:44:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <41583557.9020507@ncsu.edu> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 11:44:23 -0400 From: David Serxner User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040803 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Historical/inspired Hallow'een costumes References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3AEB@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3AEB@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-PMX-Version: 4.6.1.107272, Antispam-Core: 4.6.1.106808, Antispam-Data: 2004.9.26.0 X-Spam-Status: No, Hits=7% X-Spam-Level: IIIIIII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have an opera opening that weekend. The costume this year will be harried costume designer, complete with safety pins, hair pins, and a hidden pint of gin! David >>Any of you doing historical or historical-inspired halloween costumes >>for yourselves, family, or friends? >> >> -- David Serxner NCSU Libraries Acquisitions Dept. Serials and Electronic Resources Campus Box 7111 Raleigh, NC 27695-7111 919-513-3355 office 919-515-7292 fax _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 27 11:54:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8RFsjAF016175 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 11:54:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RFru4d026442 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Sep 2004 09:53:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RFrmnX090128; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 09:53:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.254.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RFrknX090090 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 09:53:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 16:53:35 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: RE: [h-cost] Historical/inspired Hallow'een costumes To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3AEC@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Historical/inspired Hallow'een costumes Thread-Index: AcSilSMZwCd1Yf7TTC+J/dybZJpMJgCE6F5Q content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.20 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I am going to make my son a costume based on Edward IV's toddler > portrait. Simplicity has the basic pattern, which I want to modify. I > am making the > outfit in linen, because he will be wearing this at hot faires next year. I > will be making a separate chemise. The linen is dark blue, so I will be > fabric stenciling the sleeves in a period pattern with gold paint. And then > I will be adding in the hanging over-sleeves that Simplicity left off > (modified to easily detach). I used that pattern (modified) as the basis for toddler costumes for two friends' childen last year (one boy, one girl). The boy's costume is in lishtish green brocade with rust trim, rust brocade trunk-hose sleeves and hat (yes, I know in period the skirts would have been floor-length and there would have been no trunk hose, but it's just so cute as it is!) . The girl's costume is *bright* scarlet short-pile velvet with black velvet ribbon trim and I just finished making a copy of it (using the offcuts and narrower ribbon) for her favourite rag doll (which was about the same height she was when she first got it and wears her outgrown baby clothes). I'm quite proud of the doll. I originally made it for her big brother over eight years ago and he hung onto it even though he "outgrew" it and was happy to give it a new lease of life by passing I onto his baby sister when she toddled into his room one day and spotted it. So now "she" (the doll) has a new smock and red velvet gown to replace the shirt and blue velvet doublet and trunk-hose "he" used to wear. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 27 12:13:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8RGDKLI016266 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 12:13:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RGCV4d028741 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Sep 2004 10:12:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RGC6nX005642; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 10:12:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (chori.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RGBlnX005291 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 10:11:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ldownward@chori.org) X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Sophos http://raeinternet.com/mpp Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP-TLS id 1441370 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 09:11:38 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.0.0.040405 Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 09:11:37 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] My next frustration: belts & metalwork From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200409251835.i8PIZenX027932@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Becky wrote: > You need to start out with some cheaper metal; I know there are different > grades. Fire Mountain Gems just started carrying the stuff and there are > also some websites that cater to this market. There is about a 30% > shrinkage. Check around your local area to see if there are any ceramics > shops that have kilns you could rent or borrow. Make sure the temperature > will work -- I can't remember but I know this clay takes a certain temp. > Regarding PMC: I haven't tried it yet, but I've been researching and reading about it with an eye to learning the process at some point. Fire Mount may have the stuff, but before you buy the kiln and other materials, you may want to check with bead shops in your area to see if they are teaching the class. I know that one shop in Berkeley has taught a beginning PMC class for the past year and they let you use their kiln for the class project. And then Cynthia wrote: > Fire Mountain's kit includes a little torch, rather than a kiln -- much > smaller, cheaper. > > What you would do ultimately is use pewter in a soapstone mold. Neither > of these things are expensive; I know some of the student types in my > old group were experimenting with them and producing fairly good things > after a bit of practice. > Pewter is great for buttons, etc. But remember that pewter is very soft and a belt buckle of pewter may not be sturdy enough for wear unless you're inserting a harder metal for the working part and only using the pewter for the decoration. FYI: The three pewter craftsmen I know use an old crock pot for melting the pewter. it keeps the pewter melted and at an even temperature for as long as necessary. For what it's worth, LynnD _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 27 13:14:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8RHElhD016578 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 13:14:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RHDM4d006419 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Sep 2004 11:13:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RHDCnX059388; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 11:13:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.200]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RHD7nX059310 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 11:13:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goddessandqueen@gmail.com) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 75so3832506rnl for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 10:12:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.59.51 with SMTP id h51mr124690rna; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 10:12:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.81.72 with HTTP; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 10:11:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6107d9c104092710116b14957d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 12:11:27 -0500 From: pixel To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] My next frustration: belts & metalwork In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <200409251835.i8PIZenX027932@net.indra.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > And then Cynthia wrote: > > Fire Mountain's kit includes a little torch, rather than a kiln -- much > > smaller, cheaper. > > > > What you would do ultimately is use pewter in a soapstone mold. Neither > > of these things are expensive; I know some of the student types in my > > old group were experimenting with them and producing fairly good things > > after a bit of practice. > > > Pewter is great for buttons, etc. But remember that pewter is very soft and > a belt buckle of pewter may not be sturdy enough for wear unless you're > inserting a harder metal for the working part and only using the pewter for > the decoration. > > FYI: The three pewter craftsmen I know use an old crock pot for melting the > pewter. it keeps the pewter melted and at an even temperature for as long as > necessary. > > For what it's worth, > LynnD > Oddly enough, my cast pewter belt buckles seem to wear just fine. When you say "working part", do you mean the tongue? I've read some stuff online about PMC that suggests one gets a molded look more so than a cast look for the finished pieces. I suppose you could carve a mold in investment plaster or soapstone, mold the PMC in it, then fire it. Margaret/Pixel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 27 13:15:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8RHFu39016606 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 13:15:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RHFA4d006617 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Sep 2004 11:15:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RHF6nX060952; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 11:15:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.198]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RHF2nX060900 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 11:15:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goddessandqueen@gmail.com) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 75so3258117rnk for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 10:14:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.162.7 with SMTP id k7mr296134rne; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 10:12:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.81.72 with HTTP; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 10:11:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6107d9c104092710116b14957d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 12:11:27 -0500 From: pixel To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] My next frustration: belts & metalwork In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <200409251835.i8PIZenX027932@net.indra.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > And then Cynthia wrote: > > Fire Mountain's kit includes a little torch, rather than a kiln -- much > > smaller, cheaper. > > > > What you would do ultimately is use pewter in a soapstone mold. Neither > > of these things are expensive; I know some of the student types in my > > old group were experimenting with them and producing fairly good things > > after a bit of practice. > > > Pewter is great for buttons, etc. But remember that pewter is very soft and > a belt buckle of pewter may not be sturdy enough for wear unless you're > inserting a harder metal for the working part and only using the pewter for > the decoration. > > FYI: The three pewter craftsmen I know use an old crock pot for melting the > pewter. it keeps the pewter melted and at an even temperature for as long as > necessary. > > For what it's worth, > LynnD > Oddly enough, my cast pewter belt buckles seem to wear just fine. When you say "working part", do you mean the tongue? I've read some stuff online about PMC that suggests one gets a molded look more so than a cast look for the finished pieces. I suppose you could carve a mold in investment plaster or soapstone, mold the PMC in it, then fire it. Margaret/Pixel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 27 13:16:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8RHGKDR016612 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 13:16:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RHFM4d006677 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Sep 2004 11:15:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RHFLnX061131; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 11:15:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.199]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RHF2nX060901 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 11:15:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goddessandqueen@gmail.com) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 75so3258180rnk for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 10:14:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.162.7 with SMTP id k7mr296268rne; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 10:12:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.81.72 with HTTP; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 10:11:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6107d9c104092710116b14957d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 12:11:27 -0500 From: pixel To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] My next frustration: belts & metalwork In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <200409251835.i8PIZenX027932@net.indra.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > And then Cynthia wrote: > > Fire Mountain's kit includes a little torch, rather than a kiln -- much > > smaller, cheaper. > > > > What you would do ultimately is use pewter in a soapstone mold. Neither > > of these things are expensive; I know some of the student types in my > > old group were experimenting with them and producing fairly good things > > after a bit of practice. > > > Pewter is great for buttons, etc. But remember that pewter is very soft and > a belt buckle of pewter may not be sturdy enough for wear unless you're > inserting a harder metal for the working part and only using the pewter for > the decoration. > > FYI: The three pewter craftsmen I know use an old crock pot for melting the > pewter. it keeps the pewter melted and at an even temperature for as long as > necessary. > > For what it's worth, > LynnD > Oddly enough, my cast pewter belt buckles seem to wear just fine. When you say "working part", do you mean the tongue? I've read some stuff online about PMC that suggests one gets a molded look more so than a cast look for the finished pieces. I suppose you could carve a mold in investment plaster or soapstone, mold the PMC in it, then fire it. Margaret/Pixel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 27 13:42:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8RHgbDx017182 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 13:42:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RHfg4d010001 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Sep 2004 11:41:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RHfInX084076; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 11:41:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RHfCnY083980 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 11:41:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i8RHckTA010939 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 13:38:46 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 13:38:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <415850B6.1090507@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 13:41:10 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] My next frustration: belts & metalwork References: <200409251835.i8PIZenX027932@net.indra.com> <6107d9c104092710116b14957d@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <6107d9c104092710116b14957d@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO pixel wrote: > I've read some stuff online about PMC that suggests one gets a molded > look more so than a cast look for the finished pieces. I expect it depends how you build it. I made some items at a seminar a few years ago, and we used handbuilding techniques (like pottery.) So that's what it ended up looking like. But if you know what a cast or worked piece should look like, there's probably no reason you can't make it resemble one. Here's pictures of what I made: http://www.virtue.to/articles/silver.html -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du PrĂŠ Argent Register to vote! Don't let that other guy win! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 27 14:37:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8RIbm1q017974 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 14:37:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RIVh4d016324 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Sep 2004 12:31:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RIVhnX023818; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 12:31:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RIVfnX023771 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 12:31:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bedf.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.223]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 389A847FE47 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 20:31:37 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000801c4a4c0$3dcc93f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 20:31:38 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] about japanese embroidery X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I succeded to find a provider of the wonderfull flat silk thread used for japanese and chinese silk embroidery in the UK. I can send some money and get some informations about their prices. They ask to send a A4 letter s.a.e. - could someone please explain to me what that is? You can se what they need to get here: http://www.japaneseembroideryuk.com/costsmaterials.htm It is mostly because i want to avoid to pay the nasty extra costs because there also is a provider in Canada, but here from England it should be ok Many thanks if you can help me Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 27 14:38:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8RIc4ND017977 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 14:38:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RISF4d015768 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Sep 2004 12:28:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RIS5nX020795; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 12:28:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.gssf.org (root@smtp.gssf.org [209.102.124.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RIS2nX020722 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 12:28:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from roscelin@pcez.com) Received: from pcez.com (www-data@dns1.pcez.com [209.102.124.11]) by smtp.gssf.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id LAA16364 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 11:32:33 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp.gssf.org: Host www-data@dns1.pcez.com [209.102.124.11] claimed to be pcez.com From: "roscelin" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 18:28:02 GMT X-Mailer: DMailWeb Web to Mail Gateway 2.3b, http://netwinsite.com/top_mail.htm Message-id: <41585bb2.5da6.0@pcez.com> X-User-Info: 209.102.125.138 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Embellishment for late 13th - 14th C. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Over the last 2 weeks during my break from school, I was able to get several gowns sewn. They are very late 13th C. to early 14th C. French women gowns. I've been trying to find out how I could embellish them. I do know of the book "The Fashion of the Black Prince" it mentioned the use of bezants, but where on the gowns do you place the bezants? Is there any other good examples of embellishment for these gowns? Also, Armand's would like to have his garb embellished. He is 14th C. English. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Roscelin ------------------- http://www.pcez.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 27 14:38:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8RIcuLd017982 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 14:38:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RIbo4d017084 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Sep 2004 12:37:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RIbknX028622; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 12:37:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RIbgnX028572 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 12:37:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu (vcs077.vet.cornell.edu [128.253.111.77]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i8RIbeOG011734 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 14:37:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20040927143610.01e22db0@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 14:37:45 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] Embellishment for late 13th - 14th C. In-Reply-To: <41585bb2.5da6.0@pcez.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In her book Nancy Spies shows several references to gowns being 'powdered' with bezants. That is an all over application of them in a fairly spaced (but not looking geometric) pattern. Bridgette >Over the last 2 weeks during my break from school, I was able to get several >gowns sewn. They are very late 13th C. to early 14th C. French women gowns. > I've been trying to find out how I could embellish them. I do know of the >book "The Fashion of the Black Prince" it mentioned the use of bezants, but >where on the gowns do you place the bezants? Is there any other good examples >of embellishment for these gowns? > >Also, Armand's would like to have his garb embellished. He is 14th C. >English. > > >Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks! > >Roscelin webmaster@vet.cornell.edu Mari Stewart College of Veterinary Medicine Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 27 15:08:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8RJ8mOx018080 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 15:08:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RJ6c4d020608 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Sep 2004 13:06:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RJ6VnX051557; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 13:06:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from indirectobject.com (066-241-084-045.bus.ashlandfiber.net [66.241.84.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RJ6SnX051456 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 13:06:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rreed@indirectobject.com) Message-Id: <200409271906.i8RJ6SnX051456@net.indra.com> Received: from synergy ([192.168.1.1]) by indirectobject.com (WWW [192.168.1.200]) (MDaemon.PRO.v6.8.5.R) with ESMTP id 17-md50000000005.tmp for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 12:05:53 -0700 From: To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] about japanese embroidery Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 12:05:49 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-Index: AcSkwOjSjOMO6H2iS0GWb/kdGmYWqgAA+lPg In-Reply-To: <000801c4a4c0$3dcc93f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-Spam-Processed: WWW, Mon, 27 Sep 2004 12:05:53 -0700 (not processed: message from valid local sender) X-MDRemoteIP: 192.168.1.1 X-Return-Path: rreed@indirectobject.com X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, the s.a.e. part is "self-addressed envelope" if it were s.a.s.e. it would be "self-address stamped envelope." The A4 indicates the size of the envelope -- being here in the US, I am not sure what size that would be. Maybe someone else knows that? Becky -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 11:32 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] about japanese embroidery Hi, I succeded to find a provider of the wonderfull flat silk thread used for japanese and chinese silk embroidery in the UK. I can send some money and get some informations about their prices. They ask to send a A4 letter s.a.e. - could someone please explain to me what that is? You can se what they need to get here: http://www.japaneseembroideryuk.com/costsmaterials.htm It is mostly because i want to avoid to pay the nasty extra costs because there also is a provider in Canada, but here from England it should be ok Many thanks if you can help me Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 27 15:30:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8RJUgk4018193 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 15:30:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RJTr4d024362 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Sep 2004 13:29:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RJSenX069297; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 13:28:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m18.mx.aol.com (imo-m18.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RJSbnX069183 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 13:28:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Kitsune242@aol.com) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-m18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.7.) id 6.199.2f0f7246 (16109) for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 15:28:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aol.com (mow-m04.webmail.aol.com [64.12.184.132]) by air-id12.mx.aol.com (v101_r1.4) with ESMTP id MAILINID121-3eed415869d818b; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 15:28:24 -0400 Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 15:28:24 -0400 From: Kitsune242@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <284C41EA.492FB68C.0BD9917F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 169.237.109.158 X-AOL-Language: english Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Alteryears X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Does anyone know how to contact alteryears? -- Kit If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - Kenneth Cole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 27 16:12:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8RKC3xJ018468 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 16:12:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RK674d029153 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Sep 2004 14:06:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RK5xnX099066; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 14:06:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-118.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RK5dnX098736 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 14:05:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by mail.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82796425D5 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 15:33:44 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <41587287.2000008@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 15:05:27 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] about japanese embroidery References: <000801c4a4c0$3dcc93f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <000801c4a4c0$3dcc93f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi, > I succeded to find a provider of the wonderfull flat silk thread used for > japanese and chinese silk embroidery in the UK. I can send some money and > get some informations about their prices. > They ask to send a A4 letter s.a.e. - could someone please explain to me > what that is? According to this site "In Great Britain, A4 is the standard size for folded letterhead, 4.25 x 8.625 inches. The dimensions of an A4 envelope is 324mm x 229mm." http://www.littlebit.com/general_info/envelopesize.htm S.A.E is for 'self addressed envelope'. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 27 17:09:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8RL93Uh018669 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 17:09:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RL814d006689 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Sep 2004 15:08:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RL7bnX047462; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 15:07:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (e-smtp.socket.net [216.106.88.132]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RL7ZnX047442 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 15:07:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 088902C4B5 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 16:07:35 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p194.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.214.196]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 1A01DC43D for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 16:07:34 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Alteryears Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 16:07:36 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <284C41EA.492FB68C.0BD9917F@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://www.alteryears.com/ 1-626-569-9919 I haven't heard much good about their patterns. Have you had good luck with them? De -----Original Message----- Does anyone know how to contact alteryears? -- Kit If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - Kenneth Cole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 27 17:18:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8RLIbq8018729 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 17:18:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RLHr4d007762 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Sep 2004 15:17:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RLHnnX055441; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 15:17:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-118.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RLHlnX055309 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 15:17:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by mail.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F9DE425D5 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 16:46:04 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4158837B.6090709@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 16:17:47 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 14th century details X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello, I'm looking at this Braun & Schneider plate, #20b, "Fourteenth Century Princess and Lady in Waiting." http://www.siue.edu/COSTUMES/PLATE20BX.HTML On the gown on the right, the green one, can anyone tell me what the red band is supposed to represent? Is that an underdress or a border? The blue and white dress next to it looks like it has a border, but the following plate, #21, has a gown with a border and an underdress. I realize these are Victorian drawings and subject to a good deal of interpretation by the artists. Am I correct in thinking this style is cut flat across the front and all shaping is done in the side seams? Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 27 17:25:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8RLPvvm018765 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 17:25:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RLP44d008749 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Sep 2004 15:25:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RLOwnX061060; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 15:24:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8RLOtnY061017 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 15:24:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i8RLMTTA012576 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 17:22:29 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 17:22:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <41588525.8080202@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 17:24:53 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 14th century details References: <4158837B.6090709@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: <4158837B.6090709@reddawn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dawn wrote: > http://www.siue.edu/COSTUMES/PLATE20BX.HTML > > On the gown on the right, the green one, can anyone tell me what the red > band is supposed to represent? Is that an underdress or a border? I believe the artist thought that it was a border, as its fold lines follow that of the skirt. > realize these are Victorian drawings and subject to a good deal of > interpretation by the artists. Yes, indeedy! That green neckline is pure Victorian. I like the armscye sleeve dags; don't think I've seen that anywhere before. > Am I correct in thinking this style is cut flat across the front and all > shaping is done in the side seams? No one knows. But I'm a follower of Robin Netherton's. If you search the archives on "gothic fitted dress" you'll see a lot of discussion about it. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du PrĂŠ Argent Register to vote! Don't let that other guy win! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 27 20:35:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8S0Zc8g019433 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 20:35:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8S0Ye4d028394 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Sep 2004 18:34:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8S0YInX090776; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 18:34:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8S0Y5nX090538 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 18:34:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m200.in-tch.com [216.166.191.200]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i8S0Wtt22961 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 18:32:55 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <4158B27D.80309@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 18:38:21 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 14th century details References: <4158837B.6090709@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: <4158837B.6090709@reddawn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-sonic.net-Metrics: net.indra.com 1117; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think the red band on the green dress is supposed to be some sort of border. It's got buttons running down the central part of it, just like the bodice, which is green. Pretty odd-looking though...I don't know *where* the artist figured that the red would start...perhaps under the belt? --sue Dawn wrote: > Hello, > > I'm looking at this Braun & Schneider plate, #20b, "Fourteenth Century > Princess and Lady in Waiting." > > http://www.siue.edu/COSTUMES/PLATE20BX.HTML > > On the gown on the right, the green one, can anyone tell me what the red > band is supposed to represent? Is that an underdress or a border? > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 27 20:56:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8S0uEwE019523 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 20:56:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8S0sL4d029795 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Sep 2004 18:54:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8S0sInX001069; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 18:54:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8S0sFnX001027 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 18:54:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m200.in-tch.com [216.166.191.200]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i8S0rBt29628 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 18:53:11 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <4158B73C.4070607@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 18:58:36 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Eleanor Dress??? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This website says that this gown was worn by Eleanor of Toledo, but I don't think I've ever seen it before. Does anyone know anything more about it? It's awfully pretty...I think I want it, regardless of who wore the original! --sue http://www.wonders.org/images/gallery4.jpg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 27 21:13:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8S1DSCU019579 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 21:13:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8S1Cj4d001275 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Sep 2004 19:12:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8S1CfnX010234; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 19:12:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tombstone.b.org.nz (qmailr@tombstone.paradise.gen.nz [202.49.254.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8S1CcnY010209 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 19:12:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gold@where.else.net.nz) Received: (qmail 18242 invoked by uid 1057); 28 Sep 2004 01:12:37 -0000 Received: from gold@where.else.net.nz by tombstone by uid 71 with qmail-scanner-1.22 (clamdscan: 0.70. spamassassin: 2.63. Clear:RC:1(203.79.122.104):. Processed in 0.024958 secs); 28 Sep 2004 01:12:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.0.100?) (gold@203.79.122.104) by tombstone.paradise.gen.nz with SMTP; 28 Sep 2004 01:12:37 -0000 Message-ID: <4158BA7C.9060300@where.else.net.nz> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 13:12:28 +1200 From: Melissa Brown User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.2 (Windows/20040707) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Eleanor Dress??? References: <4158B73C.4070607@in-tch.com> In-Reply-To: <4158B73C.4070607@in-tch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Would you mind sending the URL to the page that has the information on the dress? I tried searching the site myself but it's pretty big and I grew frustrated. Thanks! Melissa Sue Clemenger wrote: > This website says that this gown was worn by Eleanor of Toledo, but I > don't think I've ever seen it before. Does anyone know anything more > about it? > It's awfully pretty...I think I want it, regardless of who wore the > original! > --sue > > http://www.wonders.org/images/gallery4.jpg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 27 21:24:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8S1OeHD019616 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 21:24:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8S1O24d002810 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Sep 2004 19:24:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8S1NxnX016835; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 19:23:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8S1NunX016806 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 19:23:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA08723 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 20:32:08 -0500 Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 20:32:07 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 14th century details In-Reply-To: <41588525.8080202@thibault.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 27 Sep 2004, Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Dawn wrote: > > http://www.siue.edu/COSTUMES/PLATE20BX.HTML > > > > On the gown on the right, the green one, can anyone tell me what the red > > band is supposed to represent? Is that an underdress or a border? > > I believe the artist thought that it was a border, as its fold lines > follow that of the skirt. Note Cynthia's careful phrasing here ;-) Nothing in here can be taken as authoritative or accurate. It has passed through too many eyes and hands since the original, and most of those interpreters have not had a goal of historic accuracy. To begin with, it's worth noting that on these sorts of books (late 19th c. picture books) the coloring may have been by a different hand than the engraver. The engraver, in turn, would have been working from an earlier drawing, not from the original period artwork. The goal was to make a book of pretty pictures, not to present authoritative records of period art. So Braun and Schneider would have taken their figures from a variety of previous published books on manuscripts, tomb effigies, tapestries, etc. and combined figures and elements of figures that pleased them. So: The border may have been fur in the original, but it's anyone's guess what either the engraver or the colorist thought it was -- a fabric border, a second layer, etc. The red band down the front is particularly curious. The coloring suggests that it's somehow related to the red at the bottom, but that doesn't represent anything I know of in this period. The lines of the engraving suggest it's some sort of decorative band, perhaps with jewels or buttons on it, but also that it starts at the belt line, which would suggest a hipline seam under the belt -- something quite unlikely in this time period, and also inconsistent with the blousing effect drawn above the belt. I suspect that somewhere along the line, someone (either the earlier source, or Braun and Schneider) misread a line of vertical buttons and turned it into some sort of trim. The colorist could then have misread *that* as being somehow related to the bottom border. The border, in turn, was probably a multiple-times-removed rendition of what was originally a fur border on some original piece of art. I believe I've seen that line of vertical buttons combined with the hanging things on the arms, on a German tomb slab now in the St. Louis Art Museum (local to me). The slab itself is so badly worn you can't see most of the details now, but they were clearer a century or two ago, and along with the display of the slab itself, the museum shows a rather old artist's drawing of the slab. I'd have to go back downtown to see when that drawing was made, but I'd lay good money it's from one of the antiquarian books on sculpture that were made in the late 18th and early 19th centuries, which would mean that the image (though not the slab itself!) would have been accessible to Braun & Schneider, who of course were looking mostly at German sources anyway. > Yes, indeedy! That green neckline is pure Victorian. I like the > armscye sleeve dags; don't think I've seen that anywhere before. I've seen these elsewhere; Kohler shows a German 15th c. dress with full-length dagged strips coming from that point on the arm, for example. Of course they could just be a *popular* misinterpretation. The tomb slab here has, I think, bands around the arms that hold the hanging chains/bells in a tippet-like style, and the short dags here could be a misreading of that feature, as sifted through two or three interpreters. The collar might have started as a band with small hanging bells. I will look at the St. Louis slab next time I'm down at the museum, probably in the next few weeks, to see if that's from the same source. > > Am I correct in thinking this style is cut flat across the front and all > > shaping is done in the side seams? > > No one knows. But I'm a follower of Robin Netherton's. If you search > the archives on "gothic fitted dress" you'll see a lot of discussion > about it. Or go to my web page, http://www.netherton.net/robin , where I've got a beginner's FAQ on the style that I made for a workshop, and (more important) a collection of those past h-cost threads, up to a certain point. I suppose I should put together Volume II of the collected GFD posts... --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 27 21:44:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8S1iqQm019697 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 21:44:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8S1i54d004737 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Sep 2004 19:44:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8S1hvnX026578; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 19:43:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tombstone.b.org.nz (qmailr@tombstone.paradise.gen.nz [202.49.254.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8S1hrnY026542 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 19:43:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gold@where.else.net.nz) Received: (qmail 5738 invoked by uid 1057); 28 Sep 2004 01:43:51 -0000 Received: from gold@where.else.net.nz by tombstone by uid 71 with qmail-scanner-1.22 (clamdscan: 0.70. spamassassin: 2.63. Clear:RC:1(203.79.122.104):. Processed in 0.026635 secs); 28 Sep 2004 01:43:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.0.100?) (gold@203.79.122.104) by tombstone.paradise.gen.nz with SMTP; 28 Sep 2004 01:43:51 -0000 Message-ID: <4158C1CE.4020102@where.else.net.nz> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 13:43:42 +1200 From: Melissa Brown User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.2 (Windows/20040707) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] On lacing the GFD (aka Cotehardie) References: <4158B73C.4070607@in-tch.com> In-Reply-To: <4158B73C.4070607@in-tch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Please forgive me if this has been covered a million times. I did try to do a search on the h-cost list but didn't have much luck and got very frustrated. My question is this: Is there evidence for lacing in the first/supporting layer of a Gothic fitted dress? I ask because I am just beginning to make my very first one and have been told by a costume laurel here that the underdress should have flat buttons and that lacing isn't accurate. To my mind, lacing makes much more sense for that underdress (for lack of a better term). If anyone can point me in the right direction, I'd be very grateful. Thanks! Melissa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 27 21:59:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8S1xEKr019738 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 21:59:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8S1mP4d005236 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Sep 2004 19:48:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8S1mOnX029066; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 19:48:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8S1mLnX029022 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 19:48:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA08929 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 20:56:33 -0500 Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 20:56:31 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 14th century details In-Reply-To: <4158B27D.80309@in-tch.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Aha! I just found a photo online of the German tomb slab I was talking about in my previous post. Or, to be precise, a photo of the 19th? c. *drawing* of the tomb slab. The slab, as I've said, is in the St. Louis Art Museum, and the drawing is NOT accurate in many details. The drawing is used as part of a costumer's documentation for a competition entry, here: http://www.ringworld.org/~zling/gs03a.htm It appears that this drawing is a likely source for the Braun & Schneider plate, here: http://www.siue.edu/COSTUMES/PLATE20BX.HTML ...as the B&S plate is quite close to the drawing, including in details that I believe are not on the original tomb (though I'd have to check the tomb again to be sure of the specifics). I do recall that on the original slab, the hanging tippet-like things have more of a suggestion of dagged fabric than bells or tassels. I also suspect that the prominent folding at the hips, that suggests a gathering line or seam at belt level, is not quite the same in the original. Braun and Schneider almost certainly never saw the original tomb cover. However, even if they did, there still remains one obvious problem with the B&S version: The coloring. The tomb slab, of course, is not colored. Neither is the earlier engraving of the slab. So the color choices in the B&S plate, which seem to be making statements about various layers (at the upper arms, the hem, etc.) are completely the imagination of the colorist and have no grounding in the original source. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 27 22:28:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8S2SpN7019847 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 22:28:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8S2S94d008322 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Sep 2004 20:28:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8S2S4nX048756; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 20:28:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-02-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (ms-smtp-02-smtplb.ohiordc.rr.com [65.24.5.136]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8S2S1nX048732 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 20:28:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ailith@neo.rr.com) Received: from duncan (dhcp024-209-056-164.neo.rr.com [24.209.56.164]) by ms-smtp-02-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id i8S2Rvnb021546 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 22:27:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <005001c4a502$c10d04b0$1902a8c0@duncan> From: "ailith" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4158B73C.4070607@in-tch.com> <4158BA7C.9060300@where.else.net.nz> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Eleanor Dress??? Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 22:26:56 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm not the original poster, but if you go to http://www.wonders.org/gallery.htm then click on the image of the dress, you'll see the dress and the information. It's quite sketchy and I'm not sure that I believe that it's her gown... I'm going to send an email to the curator. I'll post what info I get back. kate ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melissa Brown" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Eleanor Dress??? > Would you mind sending the URL to the page that has the information on > the dress? I tried searching the site myself but it's pretty big and I > grew frustrated. > > Thanks! > > Melissa > > Sue Clemenger wrote: > > > This website says that this gown was worn by Eleanor of Toledo, but I > > don't think I've ever seen it before. Does anyone know anything more > > about it? > > It's awfully pretty...I think I want it, regardless of who wore the > > original! > > --sue > > > > http://www.wonders.org/images/gallery4.jpg > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 27 22:29:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8S2TpIM019860 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 22:29:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8S2T94d008410 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Sep 2004 20:29:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8S2T9nX049226; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 20:29:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav24.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.81]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8S2T8nX049168 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 20:29:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 19:29:00 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by bay9-dav24.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 02:28:24 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040925053700.GPU17806.lakermmtao04.cox.net@gary4lna2lrlna> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historical/inspired Hallow'een costumes Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 22:28:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Sep 2004 02:29:00.0614 (UTC) FILETIME=[E9E9AE60:01C4A502] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > This is the image of Edward IV as a toddler (Hans Holbein, 1539) > http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Edward3.jpg Wow, that's exactly like the Simplicity pattern for toddlers that came out last year! I'm sure they got their inspiration there! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 27 22:32:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8S2WcMA019876 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 22:32:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8S2Vg4d008665 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Sep 2004 20:31:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8S2VcnX050520; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 20:31:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tombstone.b.org.nz (qmailr@tombstone.paradise.gen.nz [202.49.254.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8S2VZnY050493 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 20:31:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gold@where.else.net.nz) Received: (qmail 2347 invoked by uid 1057); 28 Sep 2004 02:31:34 -0000 Received: from gold@where.else.net.nz by tombstone by uid 71 with qmail-scanner-1.22 (clamdscan: 0.70. spamassassin: 2.63. Clear:RC:1(203.79.122.104):. Processed in 0.024177 secs); 28 Sep 2004 02:31:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.0.100?) (gold@203.79.122.104) by tombstone.paradise.gen.nz with SMTP; 28 Sep 2004 02:31:34 -0000 Message-ID: <4158CCFD.5080201@where.else.net.nz> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 14:31:25 +1200 From: Melissa Brown User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.2 (Windows/20040707) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Eleanor Dress??? References: <4158B73C.4070607@in-tch.com> <4158BA7C.9060300@where.else.net.nz> <005001c4a502$c10d04b0$1902a8c0@duncan> In-Reply-To: <005001c4a502$c10d04b0$1902a8c0@duncan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks! I look forward to hearing what the curator says. :-) ailith wrote: > I'm not the original poster, but if you go to > http://www.wonders.org/gallery.htm > then click on the image of the dress, you'll see the dress and the > information. It's quite sketchy and I'm not sure that I believe that > it's her gown... > > I'm going to send an email to the curator. I'll post what info I get > back. > > kate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 27 23:03:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8S33hxH019984 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:03:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8S32w4d011500 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Sep 2004 21:02:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8S32rnX066357; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 21:02:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from indirectobject.com (066-241-084-045.bus.ashlandfiber.net [66.241.84.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8S32nnX066254 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 21:02:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rreed@indirectobject.com) Message-Id: <200409280302.i8S32nnX066254@net.indra.com> Received: from synergy ([192.168.1.1]) by indirectobject.com (WWW [192.168.1.200]) (MDaemon.PRO.v6.8.5.R) with ESMTP id 11-md50000000006.tmp for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 20:01:48 -0700 From: To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Eleanor Dress??? Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 20:01:47 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <4158CCFD.5080201@where.else.net.nz> Thread-Index: AcSlA5ZmAY37Rd+TS16FEz/u/O677gAA0Kzw X-Spam-Processed: WWW, Mon, 27 Sep 2004 20:01:48 -0700 (not processed: message from valid local sender) X-MDRemoteIP: 192.168.1.1 X-Return-Path: rreed@indirectobject.com X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It kinda reminds me of the one in the Victoria & Albert Museum that Janet Arnold had mocked up, towards the bottom of this page: http://www.kipar.demon.co.uk/arnold.html It also resembles the one in the Patterns of Fashion book. Should be interesting to see if it's authentic. Becky ailith wrote: > I'm not the original poster, but if you go to > http://www.wonders.org/gallery.htm > then click on the image of the dress, you'll see the dress and the > information. It's quite sketchy and I'm not sure that I believe that > it's her gown... > > I'm going to send an email to the curator. I'll post what info I get > back. > > kate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 27 23:04:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8S34E2G019987 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:04:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8S33Z4d011546 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Sep 2004 21:03:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8S33YnX066666; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 21:03:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8S337nY066460 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 21:03:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i8S38lFY022330 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:08:47 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] My next frustration: belts & metalwork Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:14:32 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <200409251835.i8PIZenX027932@net.indra.com> <6107d9c104092710116b14957d@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <6107d9c104092710116b14957d@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200409272314.32064.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday 27 September 2004 1:11 pm, pixel wrote: > > And then Cynthia wrote: [snip] > > Pewter is great for buttons, etc. But remember that pewter is very soft > > and a belt buckle of pewter may not be sturdy enough for wear unless > > you're inserting a harder metal for the working part and only using the > > pewter for the decoration. [snip] > Oddly enough, my cast pewter belt buckles seem to wear just fine. When > you say "working part", do you mean the tongue? I note that at least one vendor sells pewter findings for belts, including buckles: http://www.billyandcharlie.com/belt.html If you wish, they will for a fee make up a belt to your specifications, using findings of theirs that you select: http://www.billyandcharlie.com/belts.html -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 27 23:17:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8S3HqZq020047 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:17:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8S3HD4d012590 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Sep 2004 21:17:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8S3HAnX073105; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 21:17:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.compassnet.com.au [203.26.180.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8S3H6nY072973 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 21:17:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from glendar@compassnet.com.au) Received: from mail (root@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.10/linuxconf) with SMTP id i8S3OkaT031422 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 13:24:46 +1000 Received: from glendaii ([203.26.180.149]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.10/linuxconf) with SMTP id i8S3OjTb031407 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 13:24:45 +1000 Message-ID: <098f01c4a509$65079160$eaf4fea9@glendaii> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000801c4a4c0$3dcc93f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <41587287.2000008@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] about japanese embroidery Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 13:15:16 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Interesting. Over here SAE means stamped addressed envelope. However, that would only work within a country, as the postage and currency vary. I'd confirm with them, Bjarne. Glenda. ----- Original Message ----- > > S.A.E is for 'self addressed envelope'. > > > > Dawn > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 28 00:16:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8S4GCW2020237 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:16:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8S4FV4d016662 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Sep 2004 22:15:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8S4EjnX000621; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 22:14:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8S4EDnX000343 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 22:14:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA10006 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:22:25 -0500 Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:22:23 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] On lacing the GFD (aka Cotehardie) In-Reply-To: <4158C1CE.4020102@where.else.net.nz> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 28 Sep 2004, Melissa Brown wrote: > My question is this: Is there evidence for lacing in the > first/supporting layer of a Gothic fitted dress? I ask because I am > just beginning to make my very first one and have been told by a > costume laurel here that the underdress should have flat buttons and > that lacing isn't accurate. Oh my goodness. Where are you located, that the laurels are saying such things? > To my mind, lacing makes much more sense for that underdress (for lack > of a better term). Underdress is a perfectly fine term, as long as your listeners understand you don't mean the chemise (which is underwear, beneath the dress layer(s)). And you're right: lacing makes more sense, both in terms of practical comfort and the available historic evidence. It's rare that we get pictures that are *really* *clearly* meant to be the underdress (that is, the layer that goes over the chemise and under the overdress). However, when we do, and when a fastening is visible, it is generally laced. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen an example of front buttons on this layer. Off the top of my head, here are some examples of dresses that are clearly the first layer over the chemise and that also have clear front lacing: -- One of the female fieldworkers in the June illumination of the Tres Riches Heures, c. 1415; she is probably romanticized in being shown in a "rustic" version of the fitted dress, but there's no reason to think that the lacing is a fanciful addition. -- The nursing Madonna in the Rohan Hours, c. 1420. -- Several of Rogier van der Weyden's Magdalens, including the one in the Descent from the Cross at the Prado in Madrid, c. 1438. (Several later Flemish painters copied this clothing treatment, of a laced underdress worn without an overgown, for Magdalen and other "ladies in distress"; I have examples by Hugo van der Goes and Petrus Christus. They're too late for our period of interest for this dress, and by then the style used in this was was iconographic. Rogier did it first, though, and can be taken as more representative of contemporary style of his period.) -- The half-undressed female gatekeeper, Sloth (Paresse), at the castle of Sadness and Wrath, in King Rene's Book of Love (Le Cueur d'Amours Espris), c. 1457 -- later than you'd normally look for a GFD, but not completely out of range. There are many, many other examples of front-laced dresses, but it's unclear what layer they are, so I'm not going to start rattling them off. If your laurel friend has any evidence in period art, documents, or artifacts for an undergown that is buttoned up the torso, I really want to see it, because I can't recall ever having seen such a case. There's plenty of evidence for *over*dresses that have buttons up the front, of course, though I should also note that buttons appear to have been fashionable only for a subset of the years and places in which the fitted dress was worn. Examples with no buttons are more plentiful. (Some have lacings, some have no visible fastenings.) So it would be perfectly reasonable for you to do a fitted underdress and overdress with no buttons at all. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 28 09:32:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8SDWwW6021716 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 09:32:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SDR84d002131 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Sep 2004 07:27:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SDQjnX032578; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 07:26:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SDQinX032558 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 07:26:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m38.in-tch.com [216.166.191.38]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i8SDPgt29512 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 07:25:42 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <4159679D.5040706@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 07:31:09 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Eleanor Dress??? References: <4158B73C.4070607@in-tch.com> <4158BA7C.9060300@where.else.net.nz> In-Reply-To: <4158BA7C.9060300@where.else.net.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO www.wonders.org is the main website for the exhibits. I couldn't find any information about the dress, specifically, outside of the caption for the picture. That's one of the reasons I was asking the list . --sue Melissa Brown wrote: > Would you mind sending the URL to the page that has the information on > the dress? I tried searching the site myself but it's pretty big and I > grew frustrated. > > Thanks! > > Melissa > > Sue Clemenger wrote: > >> This website says that this gown was worn by Eleanor of Toledo, but I >> don't think I've ever seen it before. Does anyone know anything more >> about it? >> It's awfully pretty...I think I want it, regardless of who wore the >> original! >> --sue >> >> http://www.wonders.org/images/gallery4.jpg > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 28 10:00:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8SE0NeT026181 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:00:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SDxW4d004606 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Sep 2004 07:59:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SDxPnX050502; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 07:59:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f10.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SDxJnX050424 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 07:59:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 06:59:08 -0700 Received: from 129.244.6.162 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 13:58:16 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.162] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 08:58:16 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Sep 2004 13:59:08.0975 (UTC) FILETIME=[533823F0:01C4A563] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: 15thC shoe sellers? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: Teddy >Plantagenet made my lined bucket-top boots for 17th century and they are >superb (and oh so comfortable) I've not bought 15th cnetury shoes from >them but 've handlesd them, they look good and I've not heard anyone >complaining about problems with them. I'm certain they are good shoes. I can not determine construction quality or type with the photos I've seen (which is not a bad thing). This is why I said I wasn't really in a position to judge them They do, however, appear to be made on a modern last - or at least not on a 15th century last (agian, not a complaint, since right now I'm not sure anyone is making shoes on medieval style lasts except me right now, but I hope to get that to change. Marc _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 28 10:05:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8SE5SUr026223 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:05:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SE4Y4d005047 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Sep 2004 08:04:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SE4WnX053860; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 08:04:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-04.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-04.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SE4OnX053762 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 08:04:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sherylnd@kc.rr.com) Received: from oemcomputer.kc.rr.com (CPE-65-30-107-115.kc.rr.com [65.30.107.115]) by ms-smtp-04.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.12.8p1/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i8SDwHpU027608 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 08:58:23 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20040928091622.00a0dd80@pop-server.kc.rr.com> X-Sender: sherylnd@pop-server.kc.rr.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 09:17:06 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Sheryl Nance-Durst Subject: Re: [h-cost] about japanese embroidery In-Reply-To: <000801c4a4c0$3dcc93f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne, What's the supplier in Canada? Do they have a website? Sheryl Nance-Durst At 08:31 PM 9/27/04 +0200, you wrote: >It is mostly because i want to avoid to pay the nasty extra costs because >there also is a provider in Canada, but here from England it should be ok > >Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 28 10:17:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8SEHJm6026280 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:17:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SEGR4d006141 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Sep 2004 08:16:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SEGCnX061159; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 08:16:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SEFqnX060914 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 08:15:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bee9.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.233]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id B1FFF26283B for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 16:15:47 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001301c4a565$abdcc9f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040928091622.00a0dd80@pop-server.kc.rr.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] about japanese embroidery Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 16:15:56 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, There is the japanese embroidery center, wich i think is in Canada, not sure here: http://www.japaneseembroidery.com/index.html And then there is a USA provider wich runs more than 300 colours, gosh........... http://www.shaypendray.com/Pages/JEPages/JEsilkcolor2.html Another thing to use my money on. But the Japanese Embroidery Center is the cheapest with the flat thread. 6 dollars for spools with 60 meters on. Thanks for your explanations with the s.a.e. Bjarne ----- Original Mesage ----- From: "Sheryl Nance-Durst" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 4:17 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] about japanese embroidery > Bjarne, > > What's the supplier in Canada? > Do they have a website? > > Sheryl Nance-Durst > > At 08:31 PM 9/27/04 +0200, you wrote: > > >It is mostly because i want to avoid to pay the nasty extra costs because > >there also is a provider in Canada, but here from England it should be ok > > > >Bjarne > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 28 10:23:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8SENUeL026313 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:23:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SEMj4d006709 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Sep 2004 08:22:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SEMjnX065228; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 08:22:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com ([199.170.202.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SEMenX065159 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 08:22:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i8SEjJTP027407 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:45:19 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: (from sfarmer@localhost) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3/Submit) id i8SEjJcN027406 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:45:19 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:45:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Farmer Message-Id: <200409281445.i8SEjJcN027406@sabre.goldsword.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 14th century details In-Reply-To: <41588525.8080202@thibault.org> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Dawn wrote: > > http://www.siue.edu/COSTUMES/PLATE20BX.HTML > > > > On the gown on the right, the green one, can anyone tell me what the red > > band is supposed to represent? Is that an underdress or a border? > > I believe the artist thought that it was a border, as its fold lines > follow that of the skirt. > > > realize these are Victorian drawings and subject to a good deal of > > interpretation by the artists. > > Yes, indeedy! That green neckline is pure Victorian. I like the > armscye sleeve dags; don't think I've seen that anywhere before. I don't know that I've seen dags exactly like that, but you see a lot of "short sleeve short dags" type stuff in a lot of Flemish art -- and I'll even qualify that further, and say I don't know the time frame off the top of my head. I"ll have to see if I can dig up some images. Jerusha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 28 10:28:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8SESua0026327 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:28:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SERL4d007170 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Sep 2004 08:27:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SERJnX068125; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 08:27:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-01-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (ms-smtp-01-smtplb.ohiordc.rr.com [65.24.5.135]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SERBnX068076 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 08:27:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ailith@neo.rr.com) Received: from ms-mss-04 ([10.24.12.17]) by ms-smtp-01-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i8SER8JW023025 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:27:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from columbus.rr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ms-mss-04.columbus.rr.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0I4R00KPI9H8OK@ms-mss-04.columbus.rr.com> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:27:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.24.12.108] (Forwarded-For: [24.123.32.46]) by ms-mss-04.columbus.rr.com (mshttpd); Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:27:08 -0400 Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:27:08 -0400 From: ailith@neo.rr.com To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: iPlanet Messenger Express 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-language: en Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Eleanor Dress??? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings! I sent an email to the curator, Stever Masler, last evening. I asked if he had any information regarding the provenance for the gown or any other information about it. This is what I received back: "I have questioned our curators in Florence about this dress and they have sent me the following information: Meanwhile, you can tell the lady that the catalogue is correct: the dress is part of the collection of the Museo di Palazzo Reale in Pisa and it has been recently discovered( but there's another famous dress belonging to Eleonora conserved in the Galleria del Costume in Florence) I remember the dress had been long used as liturgical dress (to cover a sculpture portraying the Virgin) so it was modified yet in the 17th or 18th century and the restoration aimed at giving back the dress its original shape and length (part of the fabric was in fact folded to make it shorter)." Not a lot of information, but it's at least something. With regards, kate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 28 10:43:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8SEhFxm026383 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:43:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SEaB4d008188 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Sep 2004 08:36:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SEa5nX074488; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 08:36:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com ([199.170.202.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SEa2nX074441 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 08:36:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i8SEwiTP027596 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:58:44 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: (from sfarmer@localhost) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3/Submit) id i8SEwhx4027595 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:58:43 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:58:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Farmer Message-Id: <200409281458.i8SEwhx4027595@sabre.goldsword.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Eleanor Dress??? In-Reply-To: <4158BA7C.9060300@where.else.net.nz> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Would you mind sending the URL to the page that has the information on > the dress? I tried searching the site myself but it's pretty big and I > grew frustrated. It's set so that you can't get to the link (at least not with Netscape and it's usually pretty lenient about that.) I just backed up the URL until I found this page http://www.wonders.org/gallery.htm then click on the dress, and the information comes up. It's from that Masters of Florence exhibit that's currently in Memphis. Jerusha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 28 11:20:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8SFKHIc026518 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 11:20:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SFJQ4d013568 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Sep 2004 09:19:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SFJDnX007649; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 09:19:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu [152.1.1.165]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SFJAnX007554 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 09:19:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from david_serxner@ncsu.edu) Received: from [152.1.24.106] (acq-gss4421.lib.ncsu.edu [152.1.24.106]) by uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10/N.20040817.03) with ESMTP id i8SFJ4iw015140 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 11:19:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <415980E9.6030603@ncsu.edu> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 11:19:05 -0400 From: David Serxner User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040803 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <200409281458.i8SEwhx4027595@sabre.goldsword.com> In-Reply-To: <200409281458.i8SEwhx4027595@sabre.goldsword.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-PMX-Version: 4.6.1.107272, Antispam-Core: 4.6.1.106808, Antispam-Data: 2004.9.28.0 X-Spam-Status: No, Hits=7% X-Spam-Level: IIIIIII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Vogue Pattern X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Good Folks: I am in dire need of a copy in 18, 20, or 22 size Vintage Vogue pattern 2289. It is out of print and Vogue does not have any at all. I looked on sewing patterns and oldpatterns to no avail. Please contact me off the list if you have a copy of this pattern. Thanks very much! David -- David Serxner NCSU Libraries Acquisitions Dept. Serials and Electronic Resources Campus Box 7111 Raleigh, NC 27695-7111 919-513-3355 office 919-515-7292 fax _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 28 11:37:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8SFb3dk026572 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 11:37:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SFaE4d015372 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Sep 2004 09:36:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SFa5nX021064; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 09:36:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SFa1nX020958 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 09:36:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gia_gavino@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.114 ([204.127.197.114]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <20040928153556014007pq1ie>; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 15:35:56 +0000 Received: from [24.16.244.181] by 204.127.197.114; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 15:35:53 +0000 From: gia_gavino@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Vogue Pattern Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 15:35:53 +0000 Message-Id: <092820041535.5228.415984D90002A92D0000146C2200750330010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Sep 14 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: Z2lhX2dhdmlub0Bjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Could you provide a brief description of the garments the pattern makes? I have *several* old Vogues, but they are in storage. I can dig, but need a picture in my mind what to look for, besides a number... -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > Good Folks: > I am in dire need of a copy in 18, 20, or 22 size Vintage Vogue pattern > 2289. It is out of print and Vogue does not have any at all. I looked > on sewing patterns and oldpatterns to no avail. Please contact me off > the list if you have a copy of this pattern. > > Thanks very much! > David > > -- > David Serxner > NCSU Libraries Acquisitions Dept. > Serials and Electronic Resources > Campus Box 7111 > Raleigh, NC 27695-7111 > 919-513-3355 office > 919-515-7292 fax > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 28 11:44:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8SFid0T026620 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 11:44:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SFhp4d016277 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Sep 2004 09:43:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SFhknX027213; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 09:43:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f19.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SFhinX027079 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 09:43:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 08:41:07 -0700 Received: from 129.244.6.162 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 15:40:41 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.162] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:40:41 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Sep 2004 15:41:07.0763 (UTC) FILETIME=[924D1830:01C4A571] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: 15thC shoe sellers? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: randl@adelphia.net >Does anyone here own the Bohemond Mary Rose shoe, or has seen said shoe >up close and personal? I would be interested as well, since the shoe pictued on his web page must be an error, since that's about a century off from the Mary Rose. Marc _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! hthttp://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 28 12:06:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8SG6AOr026802 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:06:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SG4i4d019154 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:04:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SG4VnX045036; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:04:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu [152.1.1.165]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SG4LnX044890 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:04:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from david_serxner@ncsu.edu) Received: from [152.1.24.106] (acq-gss4421.lib.ncsu.edu [152.1.24.106]) by uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10/N.20040817.03) with ESMTP id i8SG4Giw021782 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:04:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <41598B82.5060601@ncsu.edu> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:04:18 -0400 From: David Serxner User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040803 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Vogue Pattern References: <092820041535.5228.415984D90002A92D0000146C2200750330010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <092820041535.5228.415984D90002A92D0000146C2200750330010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-PMX-Version: 4.6.1.107272, Antispam-Core: 4.6.1.106808, Antispam-Data: 2004.9.28.0 X-Spam-Status: No, Hits=7% X-Spam-Level: IIIIIII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, yes, well that would have been clever. Sorry about that, the stress of not being able to easily locate it got to me. It is the 1949 1 piece Summer dress with a rouched looking neckline. It was released as part of the Vintage Vogue line and has a copyright date on the instructions of 1999. The front of the envelope shows the dress in black and in a flower patterned fabric. David gia_gavino@comcast.net wrote: >Could you provide a brief description of the garments the pattern makes? I have *several* old Vogues, but they are in storage. I can dig, but need a picture in my mind what to look for, besides a number... > >-- >Slan go foill >Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri >Emer's Needle Wares > >-------------- Original message -------------- > > > >>Good Folks: >>I am in dire need of a copy in 18, 20, or 22 size Vintage Vogue pattern >>2289. It is out of print and Vogue does not have any at all. I looked >>on sewing patterns and oldpatterns to no avail. Please contact me off >>the list if you have a copy of this pattern. >> >>Thanks very much! >>David >> >>-- >>David Serxner >>NCSU Libraries Acquisitions Dept. >>Serials and Electronic Resources >>Campus Box 7111 >>Raleigh, NC 27695-7111 >>919-513-3355 office >>919-515-7292 fax >> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > -- David Serxner NCSU Libraries Acquisitions Dept. Serials and Electronic Resources Campus Box 7111 Raleigh, NC 27695-7111 919-513-3355 office 919-515-7292 fax _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 28 12:21:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8SGLH3m026921 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:21:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SGK44d020815 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:20:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SGJonX057661; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:19:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (chori.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SGCcnX051208 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:12:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ldownward@chori.org) X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Sophos http://raeinternet.com/mpp Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP-TLS id 1445879 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 09:12:29 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.0.0.040405 Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 09:12:29 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Vogue Pattern From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <092820041535.5228.415984D90002A92D0000146C2200750330010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i8SGCcnX051208 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I have extras of several of the V.V. patterns and will be happy to send it to you if I have the one you want. I'll check tonight and respond in the morning - if you don't already have an offer. As Gia said, a description of the dress would be helpful. LynnD > From: > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 15:35:53 +0000 > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Vogue Pattern > > Could you provide a brief description of the garments the pattern makes? I > have *several* old Vogues, but they are in storage. I can dig, but need a > picture in my mind what to look for, besides a number... > > -- > Slan go foill > Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri > Emer's Needle Wares > > -------------- Original message -------------- > >> Good Folks: >> I am in dire need of a copy in 18, 20, or 22 size Vintage Vogue pattern >> 2289. It is out of print and Vogue does not have any at all. I looked >> on sewing patterns and oldpatterns to no avail. Please contact me off >> the list if you have a copy of this pattern. >> >> Thanks very much! >> David >> >> -- >> David Serxner >> NCSU Libraries Acquisitions Dept. >> Serials and Electronic Resources >> Campus Box 7111 >> Raleigh, NC 27695-7111 >> 919-513-3355 office >> 919-515-7292 fax >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 28 12:21:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8SGLsCr026929 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:21:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SGLE4d020973 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:21:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SGKunX058750; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:20:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (chori.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SGFInX053492 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:15:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ldownward@chori.org) X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Sophos http://raeinternet.com/mpp Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP-TLS id 1445891 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 09:14:58 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.0.0.040405 Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 09:14:58 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Vogue Pattern From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <41598B82.5060601@ncsu.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i8SGFInX053492 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I'll check tonight and get back to you privately. LynnD > From: David Serxner > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:04:18 -0400 > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Vogue Pattern > > Oh, yes, well that would have been clever. Sorry about that, the stress > of not being able to easily locate it got to me. > > It is the 1949 1 piece Summer dress with a rouched looking neckline. It > was released as part of the Vintage Vogue line and has a copyright date > on the instructions of 1999. > > The front of the envelope shows the dress in black and in a flower > patterned fabric. > > David > > gia_gavino@comcast.net wrote: > >> Could you provide a brief description of the garments the pattern makes? I >> have *several* old Vogues, but they are in storage. I can dig, but need a >> picture in my mind what to look for, besides a number... >> >> -- >> Slan go foill >> Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri >> Emer's Needle Wares >> >> -------------- Original message -------------- >> >> >> >>> Good Folks: >>> I am in dire need of a copy in 18, 20, or 22 size Vintage Vogue pattern >>> 2289. It is out of print and Vogue does not have any at all. I looked >>> on sewing patterns and oldpatterns to no avail. Please contact me off >>> the list if you have a copy of this pattern. >>> >>> Thanks very much! >>> David >>> >>> -- >>> David Serxner >>> NCSU Libraries Acquisitions Dept. >>> Serials and Electronic Resources >>> Campus Box 7111 >>> Raleigh, NC 27695-7111 >>> 919-513-3355 office >>> 919-515-7292 fax >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> h-costume mailing list >>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> > > -- > David Serxner > NCSU Libraries Acquisitions Dept. > Serials and Electronic Resources > Campus Box 7111 > Raleigh, NC 27695-7111 > 919-513-3355 office > 919-515-7292 fax > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 28 12:29:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8SGTQXx026956 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:29:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SGSQ4d021812 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:28:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SGSFnX064702; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:28:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SGSBnX064616 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:28:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01023 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 11:35:58 -0500 Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 11:35:56 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Eleanor Dress??? In-Reply-To: <200409281458.i8SEwhx4027595@sabre.goldsword.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 28 Sep 2004, Susan Farmer wrote: > http://www.wonders.org/gallery.htm > > then click on the dress, and the information comes up. It's from that > Masters of Florence exhibit that's currently in Memphis. Has anyone been to this exhibit? My mother-in-law went and told me there were a bunch of costumes, but from her description I couldn't be sure if they were actual period survivals or museum reproductions. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 28 13:05:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8SH57iG027111 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 13:05:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SH474d026376 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Sep 2004 11:04:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SH3wnX095323; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 11:03:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SH3tnX095249 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 11:03:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brujne@creighton.edu) Received: from cindyabel (cla53081.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA27460 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:03:51 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Eleanor Dress??? Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:01:16 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There is a limited online gift shop as well--I just clicked back to the main page at www.wonders.org and clicked on the gift shop link. There is a catalog for the exibit but don't know if there is enough on costume to merit ordering the catalog. Anyone know? Cindy Abel > http://www.wonders.org/gallery.htm > > then click on the dress, and the information comes up. It's from that > Masters of Florence exhibit that's currently in Memphis. Has anyone been to this exhibit? My mother-in-law went and told me there were a bunch of costumes, but from her description I couldn't be sure if they were actual period survivals or museum reproductions. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 28 13:34:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8SHYtO3027230 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 13:34:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SHXN4d029999 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Sep 2004 11:33:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SHWqnX019817; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 11:32:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SHWcnX019572 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 11:32:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (c-24-21-147-231.client.comcast.net [24.21.147.231]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i8SHWVt12044 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 13:32:32 -0400 Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:38:45 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Eleanor Dress??? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <3F6D98B2-1175-11D9-BC30-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings, I had the great good fortune of seeing the original this summer in Florence. Did you know that it's against the rules of Pitti Palace to leave nose marks on the glass and drool on the floor? *laughs* Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com Public Relations Manager Sauron/Voldemort 2004 Bush/Cheney - Bringing Bigotry back to the Constitution. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 28 13:48:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8SHmKHs027277 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 13:48:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SHlW4d001584 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Sep 2004 11:47:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SHlTnX031943; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 11:47:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m17.mx.aol.com (imo-m17.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.207]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SHlQnX031813 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 11:47:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from IceGirlNIN@aol.com) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-m17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.7.) id 6.bf.46565a23 (3924) for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 13:47:17 -0400 (EDT) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 13:47:17 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5000 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Semi-OT: Beaded Trim X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I figured I'd ask here, since trolling through various websites (and eBay) hasn't yielded anything affordable and pretty (I know, I want both..silly me!). Anyway, I'm trying to make a historically-based, if not historically accurate, costume for Holloween, at least part of which I can wear other times. So, I wanted to make Butterick's costume pattern 4093 (a circa 1914 gown and tunic with girdle), though it looks more 1920's because of the dropped waist and such. I've found fabric that I'm fairly sure that I can use, in blue in this instance, but I'm having a problem finding the trim that they call for: beaded ribbon, 8.5 yards of it. Or, more specifically, I can't find anything that looks nice and isn't as expensive as the stuff at MJTrim, which seems to start at $20 per yard. If I needed one yard, I'd be fine, but I'd rather not spend $160 or so on trim! Does anyone have any suggested websites that sell beaded trim, or fabric stores in the Pittsburgh area that sell it? Thanks! Christine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 28 14:35:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8SIZFXZ027493 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 14:35:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SIYL4d006647 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:34:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SIY4nX070551; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:34:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SIY1nX070447 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:34:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.7.) id 6.1de.2b261dba (4539) for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 14:33:51 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1de.2b261dba.2e8b088e@aol.com> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 14:33:50 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Semi-OT: Beaded Trim To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/28/2004 1:48:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, IceGirlNIN@aol.com writes: > Butterick's costume pattern 4093 Not a bad dress at all. I wonder though if Circa 1914 includes 1929. Anyway, have you considered the beaded fringe one often sees in precut packages. It's often in the craft sections of store....like with lampshade making supplies. [I don't entirely get it either] That would look great on the handkerchief hem of the overskirt. Or a beaded fabric you could cut into "ribbon". _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 28 14:38:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8SIc3e6027508 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 14:38:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SIap4d007025 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:36:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SIannX072866; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:36:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-118.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SIainX072742 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:36:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by mail.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6DF6425D5 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 14:04:52 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4159AF38.6060101@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 13:36:40 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Semi-OT: Beaded Trim References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO IceGirlNIN@aol.com wrote: > Does anyone have any suggested websites that sell > beaded trim, or fabric stores in the Pittsburgh area that sell it? > I love that pattern! I've had it on my sewing table for months now, waiting for an excuse to make it. Normally I would point you at fabric.com because they carry bead trim at fabulous prices but they are sold out of everything at the moment.... except beaded eyelash fringe. There's ebay, but I don't think you'll get a good price there. What I would do is get a nice embroidered ribbon for the edge trim, and if it had to be "beaded" I would sit down with a pack of sequins and the bottle of superglue. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 28 14:41:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8SIfLGk027524 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 14:41:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SIeR4d007633 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:40:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SIeMnX076021; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:40:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SIeKnX075885 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:40:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-8.13) id A00A5CC60146; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 14:40:10 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.108 ([209.131.81.108] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 28 Sep 04 18:40:02 -0000 Message-ID: <002301c4a58b$8fbd46c0$6c5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Semi-OT: Beaded Trim Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 14:47:08 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Have you looked at beaded trim at Cheeptrims.com!? I've discovered that they have some connection with Kazan(?)Trims. Got a great box of goodies in June and it is all quality stuff. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 1:47 PM Subject: [h-cost] Semi-OT: Beaded Trim > I figured I'd ask here, since trolling through various websites (and eBay) > hasn't yielded anything affordable and pretty (I know, I want both..silly me!). > > Anyway, I'm trying to make a historically-based, if not historically > accurate, costume for Holloween, at least part of which I can wear other times. So, > I wanted to make Butterick's costume pattern 4093 (a circa 1914 gown and > tunic with girdle), though it looks more 1920's because of the dropped waist and > such. I've found fabric that I'm fairly sure that I can use, in blue in > this instance, but I'm having a problem finding the trim that they call for: > beaded ribbon, 8.5 yards of it. Or, more specifically, I can't find anything > that looks nice and isn't as expensive as the stuff at MJTrim, which seems to > start at $20 per yard. If I needed one yard, I'd be fine, but I'd rather not > spend $160 or so on trim! Does anyone have any suggested websites that sell > beaded trim, or fabric stores in the Pittsburgh area that sell it? > > Thanks! > > Christine > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 28 14:57:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8SIv1dx027620 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 14:57:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SItS4d009237 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:55:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SItKnX097474; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:55:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from copper.wightman.ca (copper.wightman.ca [216.249.0.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SItGnX097387 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:55:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lgsteph@wightman.ca) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by copper.wightman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D1F03FBC3 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 14:42:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d7k7b6 (unknown [142.46.141.52]) by copper.wightman.ca (Postfix) with SMTP id DA33F3FD1C for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 14:23:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002301c4a588$ec1745e0$348d2e8e@wightman.ca> From: "Five Rivers" To: References: <200409281519.i8SFJnnY008105@net.indra.com> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 14:27:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re:about japanese embroidery X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO We carry flat filament silks which are what is used in Japanese embroidery, little say most historical embroidery. And we're in Canada. URL in tagline. Regards Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage fine hand-sewn embroidered garments, historical sewing patterns & embroidery supplies (519) 799-5577, http://www.5rivers.org email: info@5rivers.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 28 15:01:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8SJ1XuM027648 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 15:01:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SJ0e4d009916 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Sep 2004 13:00:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SJ0FnX001539; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 13:00:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-118.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SJ0BnX001407 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 13:00:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by mail.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00B57425D5 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 14:28:06 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4159B4A9.3050107@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 13:59:53 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 14th century details References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: > Or go to my web page, http://www.netherton.net/robin , where I've got a > beginner's FAQ on the style that I made for a workshop, and (more > important) a collection of those past h-cost threads, up to a certain > point. I suppose I should put together Volume II of the collected GFD > posts... Very informative, thank you again. I notice that you recommend linen and wool for this style. The linen I think I can find, but I don't know much about weaves of wool. Would a crepe such as this one be a good choice? http://store.yahoo.com/phoenixtextiles/aa-895.html If not, what kind of weave should I be looking for? Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 28 15:13:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8SJD3nw027751 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 15:13:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SJCJ4d011152 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Sep 2004 13:12:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SJCAnX011200; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 13:12:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hall.mail.mindspring.net (hall.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SJC6nX011147 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 13:12:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) Received: from [192.168.167.48] (helo=wamui10.slb.atl.earthlink.net) by hall.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CCNOP-0008Na-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 15:12:05 -0400 Message-ID: <14184397.1096398725490.JavaMail.root@wamui10.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:12:05 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: Chris Laning To: Historical Costume Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: On lacing the GFD (aka Cotehardie) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin wrote: >If your laurel friend has any evidence in period art, documents, or >artifacts for an undergown that is buttoned up the torso, I really want to >see it, because I can't recall ever having seen such a case. There's >plenty of evidence for *over*dresses that have buttons up the front, of >course, though I should also note that buttons appear to have been >fashionable only for a subset of the years and places in which the fitted >dress was worn. Examples with no buttons are more plentiful. (Some have >lacings, some have no visible fastenings.) So it would be perfectly >reasonable for you to do a fitted underdress and overdress with no buttons >at all. This is, of course, assuming we all mean the same thing by "overdress." I think Robin (who can correct me if I'm wrong!) is assuming that the "norm" is three layers: a. chemise, b. undergown (a GFD) c. overgown (a less structurally important GFD) However, many people seem to think that the layers are: a. chemise, b. undergown (a GFD, but usually called a cotehardie) c. sideless surcote (which many people assume is a universal garment, and which I also wish people would quit referring to as simply "a sideless", BTW) If the _real_ layers are: 1. chemise, 2. closely fitted GFD, 3. less closely fitted GFD, 4. (if any) sideless surcote For people who see the surcote as a "normal" layer, I can see where they would call what is really layer 3 "the undergown." Since layer 3 *can* sometimes have buttons, could this be the source of the confusion? ____________________________________________________________ 0 Chris Laning | + Davis, California ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 28 16:06:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8SK6X1t028055 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 16:06:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SK5c4d016458 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Sep 2004 14:05:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SK5PnX054441; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 14:05:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tombstone.b.org.nz (qmailr@tombstone.paradise.gen.nz [202.49.254.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SK5JnY054358 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 14:05:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gold@where.else.net.nz) Received: (qmail 1826 invoked by uid 1057); 28 Sep 2004 20:05:16 -0000 Received: from gold@where.else.net.nz by tombstone by uid 71 with qmail-scanner-1.22 (clamdscan: 0.70. spamassassin: 2.63. Clear:RC:1(203.79.122.104):. Processed in 0.041283 secs); 28 Sep 2004 20:05:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.0.100?) (gold@203.79.122.104) by tombstone.paradise.gen.nz with SMTP; 28 Sep 2004 20:05:16 -0000 Message-ID: <4159C3F2.5070002@where.else.net.nz> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 08:05:06 +1200 From: Melissa Brown User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.2 (Windows/20040707) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: On lacing the GFD (aka Cotehardie) References: <14184397.1096398725490.JavaMail.root@wamui10.slb.atl.earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <14184397.1096398725490.JavaMail.root@wamui10.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello, Yes, we are all talking about the same layers :-) Thanks for pointing that out tho. Melissa Chris Laning wrote: > This is, of course, assuming we all mean the same thing by "overdress." > If the _real_ layers are: > 1. chemise, > 2. closely fitted GFD, > 3. less closely fitted GFD, > 4. (if any) sideless surcote > > For people who see the surcote as a "normal" layer, I can see where they would call what is really layer 3 "the undergown." Since layer 3 *can* sometimes have buttons, could this be the source of the confusion? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 28 16:11:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8SKBMm6028086 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 16:11:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SKAh4d017013 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Sep 2004 14:10:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SKAZnX058604; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 14:10:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tombstone.b.org.nz (qmailr@tombstone.paradise.gen.nz [202.49.254.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SKAQnY058487 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 14:10:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gold@where.else.net.nz) Received: (qmail 31925 invoked by uid 1057); 28 Sep 2004 20:10:23 -0000 Received: from gold@where.else.net.nz by tombstone by uid 71 with qmail-scanner-1.22 (clamdscan: 0.70. spamassassin: 2.63. Clear:RC:1(203.79.122.104):. Processed in 0.026272 secs); 28 Sep 2004 20:10:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.0.100?) (gold@203.79.122.104) by tombstone.paradise.gen.nz with SMTP; 28 Sep 2004 20:10:23 -0000 Message-ID: <4159C524.4070806@where.else.net.nz> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 08:10:12 +1200 From: Melissa Brown User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.2 (Windows/20040707) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] On lacing the GFD (aka Cotehardie) References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello Robin, Thank you for your detailed answers to my question - most especially for the documentation to back it all up! The laurel in question is someone I quite respect here in New Zealand (Lochac). I will cite your sources to him and ask him for his sources in exchange. When I have that information I will post it here. Thank you again. I will now embark on my first ever 4 panel cotehardie. What will I do without those princess seams? ;) Melissa Robin Netherton wrote: > Oh my goodness. Where are you located, that the laurels are saying such > things? > Off the top of my head, here are some examples of dresses that are clearly > the first layer over the chemise and that also have clear front lacing: > If your laurel friend has any evidence in period art, documents, or > artifacts for an undergown that is buttoned up the torso, I really want to > see it, because I can't recall ever having seen such a case. There's > plenty of evidence for *over*dresses that have buttons up the front, of > course, though I should also note that buttons appear to have been > fashionable only for a subset of the years and places in which the fitted > dress was worn. Examples with no buttons are more plentiful. (Some have > lacings, some have no visible fastenings.) So it would be perfectly > reasonable for you to do a fitted underdress and overdress with no buttons > at all. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 28 16:32:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8SKWghT028209 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 16:32:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SKVo4d019249 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Sep 2004 14:31:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SKVgnX075953; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 14:31:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tombstone.b.org.nz (qmailr@tombstone.paradise.gen.nz [202.49.254.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SKVbnY075893 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 14:31:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gold@where.else.net.nz) Received: (qmail 6233 invoked by uid 1057); 28 Sep 2004 20:31:37 -0000 Received: from gold@where.else.net.nz by tombstone by uid 71 with qmail-scanner-1.22 (clamdscan: 0.70. spamassassin: 2.63. Clear:RC:1(203.79.122.104):. Processed in 0.024054 secs); 28 Sep 2004 20:31:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.0.100?) (gold@203.79.122.104) by tombstone.paradise.gen.nz with SMTP; 28 Sep 2004 20:31:36 -0000 Message-ID: <4159CA1E.2070001@where.else.net.nz> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 08:31:26 +1200 From: Melissa Brown User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.2 (Windows/20040707) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Eleanor Dress??? References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks for postin the information Kate. I'm excited at another extant find! Best, Melissa ailith@neo.rr.com wrote: > Greetings! > > I sent an email to the curator, Stever Masler, last evening. I asked if he had any information regarding the provenance for the gown or any other information about it. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 28 16:48:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8SKmcjo028326 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 16:48:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SKlL4d021126 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Sep 2004 14:47:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SKknnX088156; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 14:46:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SKhHnX085198 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 14:43:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA03058 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 15:51:08 -0500 Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 15:51:07 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 14th century details In-Reply-To: <4159B4A9.3050107@reddawn.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO On Tue, 28 Sep 2004, Dawn wrote: > Robin Netherton wrote: > > > Or go to my web page, http://www.netherton.net/robin , where I've got a > > beginner's FAQ on the style that I made for a workshop, and (more > > important) a collection of those past h-cost threads, up to a certain > > point. I suppose I should put together Volume II of the collected GFD > > posts... > > Very informative, thank you again. I notice that you recommend linen and > wool for this style. The linen I think I can find, but I don't know much > about weaves of wool. Would a crepe such as this one be a good choice? > > http://store.yahoo.com/phoenixtextiles/aa-895.html I'd stay away from crepes. People who know more about weaving than I do say that while a type of crepeing was known (or at least theoretically possible?) in period, it was different from the technique used for modern crepe fabric. (Someone who's a weaving specialist can probably explain that better than I can.) For thinner, smoother wools, try worsteds -- gabardines, twills. For slightly heavier, look at flannels and plain weaves in woolens. Worsteds (think "men's suiting") are surprisingly fine, and there are many woolens that aren't heavy or fuzzy. My own current dress is a woolen and it's extremely comfortable. Fashion Fabrics Online (Fashion Fabrics Club) usually has a good selection, but look out for the lycra blends -- they're everywhere this season, and not always labeled :-P --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 28 16:49:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8SKnuxP028337 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 16:49:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SKmc4d021339 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Sep 2004 14:48:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SKmYnX089807; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 14:48:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com (outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com [64.136.20.164]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8SKkFnX087665 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 14:46:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from outbound21-sr.nyc.untd.com (webmail10.nyc.untd.com [10.140.30.152]) by smtpout01.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABAXVVNFAZFR4BJ for (sender ); Tue, 28 Sep 2004 13:45:57 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCkqki22B+t/xgopxO6a/TlTjEKL5uOdafg== Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by webmail10.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id J8M3QK4T; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 13:45:43 PDT Received: from [4.158.18.99] by webmail10.nyc.untd.com with HTTP: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 20:45:40 GMT X-Originating-IP: [4.158.18.99] Mime-Version: 1.0 From: "seamstrix@juno.com" Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 20:45:40 GMT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Semi-OT: Beaded Trim X-Mailer: WebMail Version 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <20040928.134543.15747.822164@webmail10.nyc.untd.com> X-ContentStamp: 8:4:1390227407 X-MAIL-INFO: 506815c1a1710c688ca17d0925c578153909d57885e58c78fc7d6c450545798d4c6529450c580c08bd1d184cf9bd9929984c589988853c99cded2cb9f1b9315cd105adb9a8c8a875f5a9acd1d9f548adccd1c848c58815f1c889614561694dec896ca1690df14cf1ac8ca525896c09218558ed5835b90535b9bc9db9bc9d21d5650029190cd10cbde1b84cf90c397cc8487148b59168b591694d9169d8095d891c9c0d1c8ce99c2525e525d911dcd169797dd519082119658d082d2d1d X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I second the recommendation for Cheeptrims.com. I order from them on a regular basis and I am always satisfied by my purchases. The prices are also very good- you have to order in bulk, but with the costumes I make, I use the trim in bulk so it works out nicely. Karen -- IceGirlNIN@aol.com wrote: I figured I'd ask here, since trolling through various websites (and eBay) hasn't yielded anything affordable and pretty (I know, I want both..silly me!). Anyway, I'm trying to make a historically-based, if not historically accurate, costume for Holloween, at least part of which I can wear other times. So, I wanted to make Butterick's costume pattern 4093 (a circa 1914 gown and tunic with girdle), though it looks more 1920's because of the dropped waist and such. I've found fabric that I'm fairly sure that I can use, in blue in this instance, but I'm having a problem finding the trim that they call for: beaded ribbon, 8.5 yards of it. Or, more specifically, I can't find anything that looks nice and isn't as expensive as the stuff at MJTrim, which seems to start at $20 per yard. If I needed one yard, I'd be fine, but I'd rather not spend $160 or so on trim! Does anyone have any suggested websites that sell beaded trim, or fabric stores in the Pittsburgh area that sell it? Thanks! Christine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________ Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 28 17:57:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8SLvnSb028839 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 17:57:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SLpt4d028211 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Sep 2004 15:51:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SLpSnX038992; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 15:51:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SLpBnX038765 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 15:51:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brujne@creighton.edu) Received: from cindyabel (cla53081.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA23564 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 16:51:07 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Eleanor Dress??? Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 16:48:31 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <4159CA1E.2070001@where.else.net.nz> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Is this gown, especially if original, displayed correctly? I don't recall any 16th c European gowns being designed as off-the-shoulder. Janet Arnold's reconstruction of Eleanor of Toledo's burial gown doesn't show it as such. Also if a garment is displayed incorrectly, might it place undue stress on old, fragile fabrics? Do correct me if I'm wrong. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 28 19:11:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8SNBuZj029119 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 19:11:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SNBB4d007021 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Sep 2004 17:11:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SNAvnX098339; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 17:10:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web13524.mail.yahoo.com (web13524.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.162]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8SNApnX098249 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 17:10:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pioneercynthia@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040928231050.37265.qmail@web13524.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.68.59.176] by web13524.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 16:10:50 PDT Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 16:10:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Ms Cynthia Schrage To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200409242018.i8OKIDnZ076715@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] My dress on museum X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne, Wow, just lovely. I think more museums should do this, as space provides. It's just really nice to see somthing "in the round" as it were. I'd love to see the whole painting done as a tableau, with furniture and all. Wouldn't that be exciting. Cynthia <<<< Hi, Finally finally my dress got its home at the old manorhouse. They had made such a fine platform in front of the portrait. I am exhorsted, ben travelling forth and back in train for 8 hours. Anyway here are pictures as promised: __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 28 19:34:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8SNYoYW029184 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 19:34:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SNY64d009298 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Sep 2004 17:34:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SNY1nX013710; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 17:34:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SNXwnX013658 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 17:33:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04359 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 18:41:48 -0500 Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 18:41:47 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: On lacing the GFD (aka Cotehardie) In-Reply-To: <14184397.1096398725490.JavaMail.root@wamui10.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 28 Sep 2004, Chris Laning wrote: > I think Robin (who can correct me if I'm wrong!) is assuming that the > "norm" is three layers: > a. chemise, > b. undergown (a GFD) > c. overgown (a less structurally important GFD) Yes, but "overgown" can be any of a number of shapes -- including a sideless surcote. > However, many people seem to think that the layers are: > a. chemise, > b. undergown (a GFD, but usually called a cotehardie) > c. sideless surcote (which many people assume is a universal garment, > and which I also wish people would quit referring to as simply "a > sideless", BTW) Better than calling it a "Gates of Hell." As a singular noun, no less. Gaah. > If the _real_ layers are: > 1. chemise, > 2. closely fitted GFD, > 3. less closely fitted GFD, > 4. (if any) sideless surcote > > For people who see the surcote as a "normal" layer, I can see where > they would call what is really layer 3 "the undergown." Since layer 3 > *can* sometimes have buttons, could this be the source of the > confusion? In this case, the person inquiring specified the "first/supportive layer," which would be layer 2 in that list no matter what. I would not consider this four-layer combination typical or "real," at any rate, though I sometimes see it in rather fanciful allegorical representations of historic queens or saints, painted well after the surcote was no longer "normal" wear in any regard. I suppose it may have been worn by queens during the time when sideless surcotes were used as royal ceremonial robes, in which case their presence as an extra layer over the usual three would not have been out of the question. But I don't think I've ever seen this four-layer combo done by re-enactors, who are more likely to skip a layer than add one. Have you seen it done? --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 28 19:49:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8SNn1OB029247 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 19:49:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SNmI4d010470 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Sep 2004 17:48:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SNllnX021885; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 17:48:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SNlhnX021850 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 17:47:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) Received: from [192.168.167.42] (helo=wamui04.slb.atl.earthlink.net) by smtp6.mindspring.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CCRh9-0000HZ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 19:47:43 -0400 Message-ID: <29590312.1096415262651.JavaMail.root@wamui04.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 16:47:42 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: Chris Laning To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: On lacing the GFD (aka Cotehardie) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin wrote: >> If the _real_ layers are: >> 1. chemise, >> 2. closely fitted GFD, >> 3. less closely fitted GFD, >> 4. (if any) sideless surcote > >I would not consider this four-layer combination typical or "real," at any >rate, though I sometimes see it in rather fanciful allegorical >representations of historic queens or saints, painted well after the >surcote was no longer "normal" wear in any regard. I suppose it may have >been worn by queens during the time when sideless surcotes were used as >royal ceremonial robes, in which case their presence as an extra layer >over the usual three would not have been out of the question. > >But I don't think I've ever seen this four-layer combo done by >re-enactors, who are more likely to skip a layer than add one. Have you >seen it done? Nope, I was just trying to imagine how something could be popularly regarded as an "undergown" -- after all, it IS under SOMEthing -- without being supportive. I missed the reference to something supportive. But what we appear to have instead is someone who hasn't seen the "right" evidence. :) ____________________________________________________________ 0 Chris Laning | + Davis, California ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 28 19:50:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8SNoJLh029252 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 19:50:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SNna4d010617 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Sep 2004 17:49:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SNnXnX022893; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 17:49:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m24.mx.aol.com (imo-m24.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8SNmLnX022129 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 17:48:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Kitsune242@aol.com) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.7.) id 6.d.34039b02 (16112) for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 19:48:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aol.com (mow-d24.webmail.aol.com [205.188.139.165]) by air-id12.mx.aol.com (v101_r1.4) with ESMTP id MAILINID124-3ef04159f83c3c0; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 19:48:12 -0400 Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 19:48:12 -0400 From: Kitsune242@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <59AFFE34.2C095E0E.0BD9917F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 169.237.109.158 X-AOL-Language: english Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Website X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Does anyone remember a website that was posted on this list a couple years ago that sold High End (read: expensive) Reproduction Royal Jewels, Tiara's and the like. I believe it was from Europe. If you know what I am talking about and have the website, could you please send it to me? Thanks! Kit If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - Kenneth Cole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 28 20:42:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8T0gktF029426 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 20:42:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T0fi4d014632 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Sep 2004 18:41:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T0fdnX051813; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 18:41:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail11.mdx.safepages.com (mail11.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T0fDnX051546 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 18:41:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id ECEA4A0875; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 00:41:11 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust145.tnt4.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.207.145]) by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 25F2BA0C4C for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 00:41:10 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <035701c4a5bd$0368ac50$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Eleanor Dress??? Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 19:37:56 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Does anyone know how long this will be dislpayed in Memphis? It's only a ~4 hr drive for me; might be worth it. -E _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 28 20:47:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8T0l5a2029448 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 20:47:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T0j94d014843 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Sep 2004 18:45:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T0j8nX053721; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 18:45:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav29.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.86]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T0j6nX053652 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 18:45:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 17:45:00 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by bay9-dav29.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 00:44:30 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200409251835.i8PIZenX027932@net.indra.com><6107d9c104092710116b14957d@mail.gmail.com> <200409272314.32064.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] My next frustration: belts & metalwork Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 20:44:39 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Sep 2004 00:45:00.0962 (UTC) FILETIME=[8D341820:01C4A5BD] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I note that at least one vendor sells pewter findings for belts, including > buckles: > > http://www.billyandcharlie.com/belt.html > There's also this place http://www.fetteredcockpewters.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 28 20:48:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8T0muUP029452 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 20:48:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T0mA4d015058 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Sep 2004 18:48:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T0mAnX055214; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 18:48:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav15.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.119]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T0m7nX055152 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 18:48:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 17:48:01 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by bay9-dav15.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 00:47:26 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040928091622.00a0dd80@pop-server.kc.rr.com> <001301c4a565$abdcc9f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] about japanese embroidery Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 20:47:36 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Sep 2004 00:48:01.0432 (UTC) FILETIME=[F8C5A180:01C4A5BD] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > There is the japanese embroidery center, wich i think is in Canada, not sure > here: > http://www.japaneseembroidery.com/index.html Actually, their address is The Japanese Embroidery Center 2727 Spalding Drive, Dunwoody, GA 30350 They're in the U.S. Too bad. Nifty though. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 28 21:15:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8T1F6TN029562 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 21:15:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T19L4d016321 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Sep 2004 19:09:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T19EnX065410; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 19:09:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mailrelay.k12.hi.us (mailrelay.k12.hi.us [165.248.247.161]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T19BnX065372 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 19:09:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lisleong@k12.hi.us) Received: from WS003 (unknown [165.248.247.156]) by mailrelay.k12.hi.us (Postfix) with SMTP id 37B963F4A for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 15:11:01 -1000 (HST) Received: From makani ([165.248.1.195]) by WS003 (WebShield SMTP v4.5 MR1a P0803.345); id 1096420246859; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 15:10:46 -1000 Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 15:06:08 -1000 (HST) From: lisa X-X-Sender: lisleong@makani To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <200409272314.32064.cathy@thyrsus.com> Message-ID: References: <200409251835.i8PIZenX027932@net.indra.com> <6107d9c104092710116b14957d@mail.gmail.com> <200409272314.32064.cathy@thyrsus.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] embroidered lotus slippers X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Do any of you know of embroidered lotus slippers for bound feet from before the 19th century? I can find information about footbinding itself from way before that but haven't been able to find any hard evidence (either pictoral or documentary) for *embroidered* lotus shoes from before the 1800s. I would guess that they were embroidered but have no real proof. My focus right now is on the *embroidered* part; I've seen earlier paintings of women in tiny shoes but they're all plain. thanks, annora _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 28 22:06:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8T26NKY029695 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 22:06:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T20X4d020330 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Sep 2004 20:00:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T20QnX089970; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 20:00:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T20OnY089942 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 20:00:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i8T267bW024959 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 22:06:08 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] My next frustration: belts & metalwork Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 22:11:52 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <200409251835.i8PIZenX027932@net.indra.com> <200409272314.32064.cathy@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200409282211.52860.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 28 September 2004 8:44 pm, Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: > > I note that at least one vendor sells pewter findings for belts, > > including buckles: > > > > http://www.billyandcharlie.com/belt.html > > There's also this place > http://www.fetteredcockpewters.com/ True. But I figured more list members would know about Fettered Cock Pewters, because their URL came up on the list not too long ago. -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 28 22:06:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8T26k3R029698 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 22:06:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T25q4d020832 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Sep 2004 20:05:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T25qnX092752; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 20:05:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-01-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (ms-smtp-01-smtplb.ohiordc.rr.com [65.24.5.135]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T25onX092738 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 20:05:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ailith@neo.rr.com) Received: from duncan (dhcp024-209-056-164.neo.rr.com [24.209.56.164]) by ms-smtp-01-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id i8T25kJX009415 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 22:05:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001c01c4a5c8$d08d4d20$1902a8c0@duncan> From: "ailith" To: "Historical Costume" References: <035701c4a5bd$0368ac50$0400a8c0@compaqub> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Eleanor Dress??? Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 22:05:36 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It's only there til Sunday. The exhibit ends on October 3. kate ----- Original Message ----- From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 8:37 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Eleanor Dress??? > Does anyone know how long this will be dislpayed in Memphis? It's only a ~4 > hr drive for me; might be worth it. > > -E > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 28 22:51:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8T2pIMw029830 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 22:51:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T2oP4d023972 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Sep 2004 20:50:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T2o5nX014431; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 20:50:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T2o1nY014386 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 20:50:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i8T2tipk026017 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 22:55:44 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Website Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 23:01:29 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <59AFFE34.2C095E0E.0BD9917F@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <59AFFE34.2C095E0E.0BD9917F@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200409282301.29256.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.1 required=5.0 tests=MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 28 September 2004 7:48 pm, Kitsune242@aol.com wrote: > Does anyone remember a website that was posted on this list a couple years > ago that sold High End (read: expensive) Reproduction Royal Jewels, Tiara's > and the like. I believe it was from Europe. If you know what I am talking > about and have the website, could you please send it to me? I'm not sure, but it sure sounds like Carl Lemke's site: http://www.signetring.com/Coronet/coronet.htm -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 29 00:00:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8T40Gq8030234 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 00:00:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T3xO4d028709 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Sep 2004 21:59:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T3xInX046714; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 21:59:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T3xGnX046693 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 21:59:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 450775DF68 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 20:59:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040928204640.01ec8008@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 20:51:52 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historical/inspired Hallow'een costumes In-Reply-To: References: <20040925053700.GPU17806.lakermmtao04.cox.net@gary4lna2lrlna> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:28 PM 9/27/2004 -0400, you wrote: > > This is the image of Edward IV as a toddler (Hans Holbein, 1539) > > http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Edward3.jpg > >Wow, that's exactly like the Simplicity pattern for toddlers that came out >last year! I'm sure they got their inspiration there! I believe it was, but made simpler. Simplicity dropped the hanging sleeves, and the skirt is shorter (knee length) than I believe young boys skirts were (ankle/floor length). They also made the chemise a part of the bodice, and dropped the chemise ruffle around the wrists. That is why I am making it in two parts (chemise and overgown), not to mention being able to just wear the chemise when it is hot, and to keep things cleaner. I am not sure if I am going to actually make piping or use simple trim for the gold trimmed areas of the overgown. I am also debating how to do the hat set. The pattern has it all attached as one, which would work for keeping such a hat on a toddler's active head. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 29 00:08:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8T480IA030291 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 00:08:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T4794d029202 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Sep 2004 22:07:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T479nX049846; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 22:07:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T476nY049822 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 22:07:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i8T4Cn2J027653 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 00:12:51 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] embroidered lotus slippers Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 00:18:34 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <200409251835.i8PIZenX027932@net.indra.com> <200409272314.32064.cathy@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200409290018.34589.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 28 September 2004 9:06 pm, lisa wrote: > Do any of you know of embroidered lotus slippers for bound feet > from before the 19th century? I can find information about footbinding > itself from way before that but haven't been able to find any hard > evidence (either pictoral or documentary) for *embroidered* lotus shoes > from before the 1800s. I would guess that they were embroidered but have > no real proof. My focus right now is on the *embroidered* part; I've seen > earlier paintings of women in tiny shoes but they're all plain. Though in the paintings, the feet are such a small percentage of the figure that it would be hard to depict embroidery.... Given the materials out of which lotus shoes were made, one would expect survivals of examples more than 200 years old to be very rare. Dorothy Ko's book, "Every Step a Lotus" (Univ. of Cal. Press 2001; ISBN 0-921638-14-0 clothbound; 0-921638-15-9 paper) shows a black and white photo of shoes found in a 12th c queen's grave that were definitely embroidered. They are not lotus shoes because they are a normal length (9 in.) but they have cloth uppers and hemp soles and otherwise look similar to lotus shoes. Ko also shows a photo of a pair of shoes from the tomb of the Ming emperor Wanli (reigned 1573-1620 CE) that have cylindrical heels the way some lotus shoes do and are only 4 3/4 inches long--definitely lotus country. Ko also mentions the grave of a Lady Huang (1227-1243 CE) who was buried with six pair of shoes, among other things (there were supposedly lots of textile finds in the grave, which Ko doesn't talk about darn it), all of which were about 5 inches long. It's not clear from the text if any of those were embroidered, though, and the one pair of which a photo appears in the text merely has a "printed gold plum-blossom motif" around the foot opening. Ko's book may not definitively answer your question (all the color photos appear to be 20th or at most 19th c shoes, mostly embroidered) but it's a fun read and the photos are gorgeous. I haven't checked, but possibly some of the sources in her bibliography may be of some use if you can track them down. Good luck! -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 29 00:09:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8T49AA4030297 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 00:09:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T48T4d029341 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Sep 2004 22:08:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T48SnX050428; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 22:08:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T48RnX050419 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 22:08:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F50211AC4 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 21:08:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040928210014.00b18020@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 21:04:08 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: RE: [h-cost] Historical/inspired Hallow'een costumes In-Reply-To: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3AEC@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx .ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 04:53 PM 9/27/2004 +0100, you wrote: >The boy's costume is in lishtish green brocade with rust trim, rust >brocade trunk-hose sleeves and hat (yes, I know in period the skirts >would have been floor-length and there would have been no trunk hose, >but it's just so cute as it is!) . Hi Teddy, That sounds so cute with the siblings. I am glad for one that a boy is given a doll to play with, and that the doll continues in life with the sister. On the boy's outfit, did you actually make the trunk-hose? The picture shows the child in tights, so I didn't even think of actually making trunk hose, until you mentioned it. I am planning for ankle length overgown, with a deep hem so I can keep up with his growth spurts. The overgown my son wore as a baby (at floor length), he still wears, although it is closer to knee length now. It's the chemise that got too tight, right under the armpits. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 29 00:26:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8T4QKLf030357 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 00:26:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T4Pc4d000746 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Sep 2004 22:25:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T4PXnX057022; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 22:25:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (e-smtp.socket.net [216.106.88.132]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T4PWnX057006 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 22:25:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 486C12C02D for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 23:25:29 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p738.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.213.231]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 440EBC425 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 23:25:28 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Semi-OT: Beaded Trim Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 23:25:34 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20040928.134543.15747.822164@webmail10.nyc.untd.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Have you looked in the bridal section for beaded trim? De -----Original Message----- I second the recommendation for Cheeptrims.com. I order from them on a regular basis and I am always satisfied by my purchases. The prices are also very good- you have to order in bulk, but with the costumes I make, I use the trim in bulk so it works out nicely. Karen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 29 01:41:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8T5feun030630 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 01:41:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T5ev4d004909 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Sep 2004 23:40:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T5ennX084876; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 23:40:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mailrelay.k12.hi.us (mailrelay.k12.hi.us [165.248.247.161]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T5eknX084858 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 23:40:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lisleong@k12.hi.us) Received: from WS-002 (unknown [165.248.247.155]) by mailrelay.k12.hi.us (Postfix) with SMTP id 1EEC53EF5 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 19:42:38 -1000 (HST) Received: From makani ([165.248.1.195]) by WS-002 (WebShield SMTP v4.5 MR1a P0803.345); id 1096436744562; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 19:45:44 -1000 Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 19:37:45 -1000 (HST) From: lisa X-X-Sender: lisleong@makani To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] embroidered lotus slippers In-Reply-To: <200409290018.34589.cathy@thyrsus.com> Message-ID: References: <200409251835.i8PIZenX027932@net.indra.com> <200409272314.32064.cathy@thyrsus.com> <200409290018.34589.cathy@thyrsus.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Dorothy Ko's book, "Every Step a Lotus" (Univ. of Cal. Press 2001; ISBN > 0-921638-14-0 clothbound; 0-921638-15-9 paper) shows a black and white photo Yep, I've read this book--it's the main thing that got me wondering in the first place. As you mentioned, there are suggestions of possibilities but no definitives. And you're right, the pictures are gorgeous :). annora _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 29 01:57:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8T5v0ju030666 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 01:57:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T5uJ4d005513 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Sep 2004 23:56:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T5u3nX090335; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 23:56:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T5u0nX090303 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 23:56:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from IceGirlNIN@aol.com) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.7.) id 6.111.38cf9df0 (3924) for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 01:55:53 -0400 (EDT) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: <111.38cf9df0.2e8ba869@aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 01:55:53 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Semi-OT: Beaded Trim To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5000 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/28/2004 4:49:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, seamstrix@juno.com writes: I second the recommendation for Cheeptrims.com. I order from them on a regular basis and I am always satisfied by my purchases. The prices are also very good- you have to order in bulk, but with the costumes I make, I use the trim in bulk so it works out nicely. You know, I'd looked at cheeptrims...apparently I missed the perfect (or at least, as close to perfect as I'm going to get without spending $50 a yard!) trim the first go-round. Problem: I'd always heard that their minimum order was $40, but now it's $65. On the other hand, Denver Fabrics has the same trim...for $32, whereas at CheepTrims it's $16. So I either need to pay the $32 (for 10 yards- it's pre-cut from both stores, but that doesn't bother me since it means I get wiggle-room), or find more trim! Thank you, everyone, for your help. Now I get to ponder whether I can afford to go nuts over more trim (let's see, what else is on my plate?), or if I should just..ow..pay twice the price but less than $65. Christine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 29 02:59:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8T6x5SR011370 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 02:59:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T6wB4d008829 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Sep 2004 00:58:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T6w2nX016871; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 00:58:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d22.mx.aol.com (imo-d22.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T6vvnX016781 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 00:57:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Chindora@aol.com) Received: from Chindora@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.7.) id 6.193.2f109891 (3842) for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 02:57:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Chindora@aol.com Message-ID: <193.2f109891.2e8bb6eb@aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 02:57:47 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Semi-OT: Beaded Trim To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5000 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello from an old member who is back again I am busy with five kids, so do not often post to the list but hugely enjoy reading the messages. I bought this pattern for myself, and searched high and low for this 2" wide beaded ribbon trim, with absolutely no luck. I did internet searches and also looked in several fabric stores. The only thing that I could find that was even close was scandalously expensive for what I wanted to use the outfit for. Now, if I had been planning to wear it for a formal wedding, maybe I might have spent the money, but just to waar to a Navy Ball....nah. I still have the pattern in my box, and maybe someday when I find a trim that is not going to bankrupt me, I will make it. :) Kimberley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 29 03:52:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8T7qu0p026528 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 03:52:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T7qB4d011393 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Sep 2004 01:52:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T7q7nX039366; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 01:52:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk ([193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T7q5nX039059 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 01:52:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i8T7pTa23271.; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 08:51:29 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 08:51:29 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 08:51:15 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] about japanese embroidery Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It means that in the UK too - I checked it in a couple of dictionaries. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> glendar@compassnet.com.au 28/09/2004 04:15:16 >>> Interesting. Over here SAE means stamped addressed envelope. However, that would only work within a country, as the postage and currency vary. I'd confirm with them, Bjarne. Glenda. ----- Original Message ----- > > S.A.E is for 'self addressed envelope'. > > > > Dawn > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 29 05:31:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8T9VqOR027662 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 05:31:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T9V34d017299 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Sep 2004 03:31:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T9UpnX078501; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 03:30:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from alpha2.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (alpha2.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.0.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T9UmnX078440 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 03:30:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 10:29:16 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: RE:[h-cost] Historical/inspired Hallow'een costumes To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3B08@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: RE:[h-cost] Historical/inspired Hallow'een costumes Thread-Index: AcSl+Z6xbR3dLNtRQwyARCnr+WmPsAAC/l/Q content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.20 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > At 04:53 PM 9/27/2004 +0100, you wrote: > >The boy's costume is in lishtish green brocade with rust trim, rust > >brocade trunk-hose sleeves and hat (yes, I know in period the skirts > >would have been floor-length and there would have been no trunk hose, > >but it's just so cute as it is!) . Hi > On the boy's outfit, did you actually make the trunk-hose? The picture > shows the child in tights, so I didn't even think of actually making trunk > hose, until you mentioned it. I did, byt they are a cheat - I have often thought that those baby knickers that go over nappies (the baggy ones with the elasticated waist and legs) look like trunk-hose, so I made a pair of those in the same fabric as the sleeves and hat - that way, if it gets hot he can run around in his shirt, tights and trunk hose and leave off the main gown (the hat stays on only long enough to snap the occasional phot beofr he pulls it off!) > I am planning for ankle length overgown, with a deep hem so I can keep up with his > growth spurts. That's what I did with the little girl's one. Normally I'd have doen it for the boy too, but wanted to try out the trunk hose idea - and they do show under the shorter gown when he's playing. > The overgown my son wore as a baby (at floor length), he still wears, > although it is closer to knee length now. A friend did this for her son when he was small (he must ba about 16 now) and when he finally outgrew it width-wise, it had a band of fabricsewn on to lengthen the skirts and was passed down to his younger sister. > It's the chemise that got too tight, right under the armpits. yep, and with garments that small, it's often quicker and easier to make new ones than unpuck and set in gussets under the arms. Teddy (currently altering several outgrown gowns for a ten year old - thank goodness I made them with ten-inch hems and very wide side-seam allowances. Now, if she only hadn't *lost* the sleeves that go with two of them!) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 29 05:38:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8T9c8Ek029774 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 05:38:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T9bT4d017534 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Sep 2004 03:37:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T9bTnX081060; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 03:37:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m15.mx.aol.com (imo-m15.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.205]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T9bRnX081001 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 03:37:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from MaddNancy@aol.com) Received: from MaddNancy@aol.com by imo-m15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.7.) id 6.100.2dbc6b7 (4410) for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 05:37:18 -0400 (EDT) From: MaddNancy@aol.com Message-ID: <100.2dbc6b7.2e8bdc4d@aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 05:37:17 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5112 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Eleanor Dress - Attended Exhibit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The exhibit is really interesting - I had the opportunity to see it and recommend it highly. They have approximately 200 items on display, covering the culture of the period through a number of types of art, not just painting. I've been trying for a while to find the notes that I took. The two items that I found the most fascinating were the Eleanor of Toledo dress and a scrap of the bloody shirt of Giuliano de' Medici (assassinated in 1478). Other really interesting items included a hair shirt of Savonarola's, slippers that came from the Casa Buonarotti and that may have belonged to Michaelangelo, and part of an 18th century dress. The picture on the website is actually better than the one in the catalog (very grainy picture) although the catalog has a full-length picture. Unfortunately, due to the agreements with the museums that loaned items, no photos are allowed in the exhibit. The catalog (which my house seems to have eaten) mentions that a portrait of Eleanor wearing the dress is in one of the museums in Pisa (I think). At the time I got the catalog I tried to find a picture of it online but had no luck. As previously noted, the Eleanor dress was on a statue in a church for many years before being put away for safe keeping. It was "rediscovered" in 1995 and has since been restored. It appeared to be in remarkably good shape, particularly in comparison to the grave clothes featured in Arnold, which it greatly resembles. The back skirt has been replaced with similar red velvet but it has some of the embroidered guards missing at the bottom. Conservation work has been done on some of the guards on the bodice, and there is netting helping to preserve some of them. It was certainly presented as an original and presumably the church would have had records of receiving it or at least the tradition of who had presented it. The dress is not really off the shoulder but does rest at the edge of the shoulders. I don't know how it was mounted, exactly, but based on my conversation with one of the museum staff, a number of the items were mounted with the assistance of representatives from the "home" museum. The Wonders exhibits have a good reputation internationally and have been able to borrow some significant items over the years. Presumably the items were mounted with an eye to preservation. The scrap of shirt was almost more fascinating than the dress. It was from the top of the shirt and was presented folded over on itself so that the front and back were visible. Very tiny gathereing threads were still visible holding the pleats in place. On the front it appeared that there had been some trim, either embroidery or applique, originally present as evidenced by a pattern of discoloration. On the back the tape holding the pleats in place (something I had speculated about) was still present! I could not tell what the edge treatment was exactly as the fabric and the stitching were so fine. If anyone has other questions, I will try to remember more. I also have friends in Memphis, including one who was helping with the exhibit. She may be able to get additional information. Nancy (Maddalena Salutati) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 29 05:45:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8T9jhgD030697 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 05:45:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T9ix4d017953 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Sep 2004 03:44:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T9ivnX084185; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 03:44:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T9itnX084077 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 03:44:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (kf-ijss-cb01-0309.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.81.54]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1C2931923F for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:44:39 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <415A8407.2080204@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:44:39 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Website References: <59AFFE34.2C095E0E.0BD9917F@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <59AFFE34.2C095E0E.0BD9917F@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Do you mean this one? http://www.countalexander.com/ Greetings, Deredere Kitsune242@aol.com wrote: >Does anyone remember a website that was posted on this list a couple years ago that sold High End (read: expensive) Reproduction Royal Jewels, Tiara's and the like. I believe it was from Europe. If you know what I am talking about and have the website, could you please send it to me? > >Thanks! >Kit >If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - Kenneth Cole > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 29 05:51:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8T9pFS5030728 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 05:51:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T9oA4d018198 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Sep 2004 03:50:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T9o7nX086400; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 03:50:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8T9o6nX086341 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 03:50:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (kf-ijss-cb01-0309.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.81.54]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB4C73191DE for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:50:00 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <415A8547.3040108@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:49:59 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Deredere's Website adress changed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, For every one who like my site and/or has links to my site. I changed the site from name and adress. This was the old one Medieval and Renaissance costumes and archery http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade/index.html And this is the new one Historical and Fantasy costumes http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Index.html Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 29 07:00:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8TB06jt031004 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 07:00:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TAGu4d022484 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Sep 2004 04:16:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TAGonX097313; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 04:16:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from alpha2.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (alpha2.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.0.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TAGmnX097294 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 04:16:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 10:06:08 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: 15thC shoe sellers? To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3B07@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Re: 15thC shoe sellers? Thread-Index: AcSlbzP72Y5HaF23TfyrJz4ZyPLw4wAlCGHw content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.20 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I'm certain they are good shoes. I can not determine construction quality > or type with the photos I've seen (which is not a bad thing). This is why I > said I wasn't really in a position to judge them > > They do, however, appear to be made on a modern last - or at least not on a > 15th century last (agian, not a complaint, since right now I'm not sure > anyone is making shoes on medieval style lasts except me right now, but I > hope to get that to change. As to that, I couldn't comment since I wouldn't know a period last from a modern one. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 29 08:06:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8TC6GHk031228 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 08:06:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TBfN4d004120 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Sep 2004 05:41:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TBfHnX030659; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 05:41:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com ([199.170.202.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TBfDnX030621 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 05:41:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i8TC41TP037899 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 08:04:01 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: (from sfarmer@localhost) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3/Submit) id i8TC41l4037898 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 08:04:01 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 08:04:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Farmer Message-Id: <200409291204.i8TC41l4037898@sabre.goldsword.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Eleanor Dress??? In-Reply-To: <035701c4a5bd$0368ac50$0400a8c0@compaqub> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Does anyone know how long this will be dislpayed in Memphis? It's only a ~4 > hr drive for me; might be worth it. Saturday or Sunday is the last day. I was hoping to drive, but am not going to make it. If you go, I might let you get me a catalog ..... Susan/ Jerusha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 29 08:27:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8TCRViO031364 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 08:27:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TCQn4d006650 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Sep 2004 06:26:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TCQfnX050926; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 06:26:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TCQcnY050884 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 06:26:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i8TCWPcM009717 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 08:32:25 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Semi-OT: Beaded Trim Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 08:38:10 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <111.38cf9df0.2e8ba869@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <111.38cf9df0.2e8ba869@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200409290838.10225.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 29 September 2004 1:55 am, IceGirlNIN@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/28/2004 4:49:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > seamstrix@juno.com writes: [snip] > You know, I'd looked at cheeptrims...apparently I missed the perfect (or > at least, as close to perfect as I'm going to get without spending $50 a > yard!) trim the first go-round. Problem: I'd always heard that their > minimum order was $40, but now it's $65. It *was* still $40 this summer, when I was considering a purchase. Perhaps a recent increase? -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 29 08:29:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8TCTcnE031373 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 08:29:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TCT14d006847 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Sep 2004 06:29:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TCT0nX051985; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 06:29:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TCSvnY051967 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 06:28:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i8TCYh4M009787 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 08:34:43 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] embroidered lotus slippers Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 08:40:28 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <200409251835.i8PIZenX027932@net.indra.com> <200409290018.34589.cathy@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200409290840.28811.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 29 September 2004 1:37 am, lisa wrote: > > Dorothy Ko's book, "Every Step a Lotus" (Univ. of Cal. Press 2001; ISBN > > 0-921638-14-0 clothbound; 0-921638-15-9 paper) shows a black and white > > photo > > Yep, I've read this book--it's the main thing that got me > wondering in the first place. As you mentioned, there are suggestions of > possibilities but no definitives. I haven't looked back at my copy of "Splendid Slippers" yet, though I don't expect it to be any better. > And you're right, the pictures are > gorgeous :). Indeed. By the way, I did a websearch when I saw your original post, trying to find instances of pre-1800 embroidered lotus shoes and was surprised not to find any, though I turned up a number of 19th c. ones. -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 29 09:13:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8TDD2VY031590 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 09:13:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TDCB4d009871 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Sep 2004 07:12:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TDBwnX072341; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 07:11:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i8TDBunX072242 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 07:11:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m2.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABAXXPESAA2Z822 for (sender ); Wed, 29 Sep 2004 06:11:44 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCkqki22B+t/xdKWpGyrGPlb7YWiDiBf34Q== Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id J8PT5QPR; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 06:11:34 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 07:54:38 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Semi-OT: Beaded Trim Message-ID: <20040929.075439.-104263733.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-22 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-ContentStamp: 8:4:1633405235 X-MAIL-INFO: 58a1b1cc9cd55de15d78e901d500457821cc31cc6d659d2dd5007981d8dda818d9f81838b5d961615961994c58f95c694dc1f1891cf115ac895d5d6c X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That's when you get together with a couple of your closest costuming friends and combine orders so you only pay for what you want, yet can make the $65 minimum..... ;-) Karen On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 01:55:53 EDT IceGirlNIN@aol.com writes: > > You know, I'd looked at cheeptrims...apparently I missed the > perfect (or at > least, as close to perfect as I'm going to get without spending $50 > a yard!) > trim the first go-round. Problem: I'd always heard that their > minimum order > was $40, but now it's $65. On the other hand, Denver Fabrics has > the same > trim...for $32, whereas at CheepTrims it's $16. So I either need > to pay the > $32 (for 10 yards- it's pre-cut from both stores, but that doesn't > bother me > since it means I get wiggle-room), or find more trim! ________________________________________________________________ Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 29 10:12:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8TECN5r031891 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 10:12:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TEAD4d014148 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Sep 2004 08:10:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TEA6nX004079; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 08:10:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from serrano.cc.columbia.edu (IDENT:cu41754@serrano.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.206.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TEA2nY003986 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 08:10:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from asj2001@columbia.edu) Received: from VAIO (dyn-ec-194-187.dyn.columbia.edu [160.39.194.187]) (user=asj2001 mech=LOGIN bits=0) by serrano.cc.columbia.edu (8.13.0/8.13.0) with ESMTP id i8TE9w8Y024572 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 10:09:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001101c4a62d$e19e17b0$9865fea9@VAIO> From: "Alexia S. Jacobs" To: References: <200409290752.i8T7qPnX039484@net.indra.com> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 10:09:05 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-No-Spam-Score: Local X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.40 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 789 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >There's also this one www.countalexander.com > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 23:01:29 -0400 > From: Catherine Olanich Raymond > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Website > To: Historical Costume > Message-ID: <200409282301.29256.cathy@thyrsus.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > On Tuesday 28 September 2004 7:48 pm, Kitsune242@aol.com wrote: > > Does anyone remember a website that was posted on this list a couple years > > ago that sold High End (read: expensive) Reproduction Royal Jewels, Tiara's > > and the like. I believe it was from Europe. If you know what I am talking > > about and have the website, could you please send it to me? > > I'm not sure, but it sure sounds like Carl Lemke's site: > > > http://www.signetring.com/Coronet/coronet.htm > > > -- > Cathy Raymond > > "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue > that counts."--Winston Churchill > > > ------------------------------ > >> _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 29 10:18:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8TEIhXb031960 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 10:18:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TEHm4d014822 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Sep 2004 08:17:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TEHjnX008983; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 08:17:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TEHhnX008952 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 08:17:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brujne@creighton.edu) Received: from cindyabel (cla53081.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA24419 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 09:17:40 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] my dress on museum Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 09:15:03 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <000701c4a271$050f7600$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne: Your dress is just stunningly beautiful. You should be very proud. Did you copy it from a portrait, existing gown, or a published scale pattern? If you devised with your own pattern, you should publish it as such a dress would make a gorgeous wedding dress. Cindy Abel -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 3:00 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] my dress on museum Hi, Finally finally my dress got its home at the old manorhouse. They had made such a fine platform in front of the portrait. I am exhorsted, ben travelling forth and back in train for 8 hours. Anyway here are pictures as promised: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/estrup3.htm Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 29 10:40:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8TEewha032096 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 10:40:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TEds4d017120 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Sep 2004 08:39:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TEdknX022509; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 08:39:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-04.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-04.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TEdhnX022477 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 08:39:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sherylnd@kc.rr.com) Received: from oemcomputer.kc.rr.com (CPE-65-30-107-115.kc.rr.com [65.30.107.115]) by ms-smtp-04.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.12.8p1/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i8TEXYpU021765 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 09:33:40 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20040929095158.00a14ec0@pop-server.kc.rr.com> X-Sender: sherylnd@pop-server.kc.rr.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 09:52:30 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Sheryl Nance-Durst Subject: Re: [h-cost] about japanese embroidery In-Reply-To: <001301c4a565$abdcc9f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040928091622.00a0dd80@pop-server.kc.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks Bjarne! Sheryl N-D At 04:15 PM 9/28/04 +0200, you wrote: >Hi, >There is the japanese embroidery center, wich i think is in Canada, not sure >here: >http://www.japaneseembroidery.com/index.html >And then there is a USA provider wich runs more than 300 colours, >gosh........... >http://www.shaypendray.com/Pages/JEPages/JEsilkcolor2.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 29 10:47:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8TElVu8032130 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 10:47:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TEk04d017669 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Sep 2004 08:46:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TEjvnX026552; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 08:45:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TEjsnY026491 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 08:45:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i8TEpfvg014705 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 10:51:41 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 789 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 10:57:26 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <200409290752.i8T7qPnX039484@net.indra.com> <001101c4a62d$e19e17b0$9865fea9@VAIO> In-Reply-To: <001101c4a62d$e19e17b0$9865fea9@VAIO> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200409291057.26276.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 29 September 2004 10:09 am, Alexia S. Jacobs wrote: > >There's also this one > > www.countalexander.com Yow. That's definitely higher-ticket than Carl Lemke's line. :-) It's also geared toward a later period, though. Count Alexander's stuff seems to run from 18th c to Edwardian, and Lemke's biggest concentration of jewels is Renaissance. I guess it depends what period the original inquirer is looking for. However, I'm glad to have seen Count Alexander's site. I can't afford anything there right now, but it's impressive. -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 29 11:15:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8TFFHVG032302 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:15:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TFEL4d020611 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Sep 2004 09:14:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TFEKnX047123; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 09:14:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TFEHnX047075 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 09:14:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32ffe.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.254]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 9AD9426285F for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 17:14:16 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <004101c4a637$0276aac0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 17:14:26 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] japanese flat silk X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I found the same center in England, and they carry 250 colour shades. It comes in 60 meter reels and it costs 4.20 pounds. So i guess i have to spoil myself again.......... sigh It is a luck that i earn my own money, dont have an expensive car nor children to feed. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 29 11:24:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8TFOFFd032348 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:24:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TFCF4d020424 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Sep 2004 09:12:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TFC6nX045512; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 09:12:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TFC3nX045303 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 09:12:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32ffe.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.254]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 599D126286B for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 17:11:50 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <003701c4a636$a9bc9610$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200409251835.i8PIZenX027932@net.indra.com><200409272314.32064.cathy@thyrsus.com> <200409290018.34589.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] embroidered lotus slippers Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 17:11:57 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > On Tuesday 28 September 2004 9:06 pm, lisa wrote: > > Do any of you know of embroidered lotus slippers for bound feet > > from before the 19th century? I can find information about footbinding > > itself from way before that but haven't been able to find any hard > > evidence (either pictoral or documentary) for *embroidered* lotus shoes > > from before the 1800s. I would guess that they were embroidered but have > > no real proof. My focus right now is on the *embroidered* part; I've seen > > earlier paintings of women in tiny shoes but they're all plain. > Hi, A book i baught recently, "Chinese Embroidery" Traditional Teckniques , has lovely colour photographs of Lotus shoes. They are all embroidered, and they are 19th century and onwards to the present days where they are sold for turists. Lovely embroideries. The early ones are embroidered, but made to look like brokade. Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 29 11:29:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8TFTrA2032357 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:29:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TFSd4d022255 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Sep 2004 09:28:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TFSWnX057886; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 09:28:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TFSTnX057844 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 09:28:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32ffe.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.254]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 5C48B262873 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 17:28:28 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001901c4a638$feb6f8c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 17:28:39 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] dyeing Silk Chenille X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I tryed recently to dye some of the silk chenille thread i am going to use for embroidery on the next projekt. I used the same colours as i dyed my silk ribbons. However i was not satisfied with the result. The thread got two hard and the dye varied two much, making some ugly black small spots. So today i used ordinary Dylon, and gosh, it was much better. I have used the Chrimson colour, and i varied the time for the threads, some just got dipped and then washed out emediately to get a light shade and so on. This i really would recomend others who wants to try. Though same shade of colour, i got many many varieties of colour, and it is just gorgeous. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 29 11:33:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8TFX7KS032375 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:33:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TFVx4d022601 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Sep 2004 09:31:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TFVrnX060551; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 09:31:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TFVonX060481 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 09:31:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32ffe.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.254]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id A092E47FE7C for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 17:31:47 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <002701c4a639$75a28b70$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] my dress on museum Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 17:31:46 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cindy Abel" > > Your dress is just stunningly beautiful. You should be very proud. Did you > copy it from a portrait, existing gown, or a published scale pattern? If > you devised with your own pattern, you should publish it as such a dress > would make a gorgeous wedding dress. Hi Cindy, Didnt you notice the portrait in the background? This is a dress i made after the portrait in the background. This is why i got it exhibited there! Thanks for liking it! Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 29 12:26:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8TGQMQ7032711 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 12:26:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TGPX4d029013 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Sep 2004 10:25:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TGOlnX002596; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 10:24:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f37.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.87]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TGOenX002468 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 10:24:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 09:05:10 -0700 Received: from 129.244.6.162 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 16:04:31 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.162] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:04:31 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Sep 2004 16:05:10.0453 (UTC) FILETIME=[189FDE50:01C4A63E] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: 15thC shoe sellers? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: Teddy >As to that, I couldn't comment since I wouldn't know a period last from >a modern one. Why heck, a medieval last is darker and grottier from having been in the ground for centuries :) Seriously, you are certainly not alone in that, but it's something I'd like to see changed. I mean - can you imagine a maker of repro armor using modern helmet shapes to make "period" helms and helmets? Marc _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 29 12:58:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8TGwkaA000355 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 12:58:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TGvI4d002612 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Sep 2004 10:57:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TGuTnX029331; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 10:56:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (chori.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TGtZnX028434 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 10:55:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ldownward@chori.org) Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP-TLS id 1450794 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 09:55:29 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.0.0.040405 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 09:55:29 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: 15thC shoe sellers? From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > From: Marc Carlson > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:04:31 -0500 > To: > Subject: [h-cost] Re: 15thC shoe sellers? > >> From: Teddy >> As to that, I couldn't comment since I wouldn't know a period last from >> a modern one. > > Why heck, a medieval last is darker and grottier from having been in the > ground for centuries :) > > Seriously, you are certainly not alone in that, but it's something I'd like > to see changed. I mean - can you imagine a maker of repro armor using > modern helmet shapes to make "period" helms and helmets? > > Marc So, Mark, is there a way to use a medieval last and still have the modern left and right lasts? LynnD _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 29 13:08:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8TH8gtX000395 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 13:08:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TH6Z4d003703 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:06:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TH6VnX038369; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:06:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail10.mdx.safepages.com (mail10.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.33]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TH6SnX038288 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:06:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail10.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 7486F204B4; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 17:06:30 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust28.tnt2.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.178.28]) by mail10.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id DDCC220357 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 17:06:28 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <03be01c4a646$aa1f3530$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3B07@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: 15thC shoe sellers? & belt stuff Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 12:06:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO By the way, thanks all for the great suggestions on both shoes and belt/pmc/pewter stuff. I'm still sorting through all the responses I've gotten on both this and another list! -E _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 29 14:19:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8TIJ4Qu000747 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:19:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TID84d012849 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Sep 2004 12:13:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TICfnX097398; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 12:12:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TICanX097282 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 12:12:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32ffe.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.254]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 6F71847FE2A for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 20:12:33 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000d01c4a64f$ebafa300$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20040928231050.37265.qmail@web13524.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] My dress on museum Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 20:12:45 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ms Cynthia Schrage" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 1:10 AM Subject: [h-cost] My dress on museum > Bjarne, > > Wow, just lovely. I think more museums should do this, > as space provides. It's just really nice to see > somthing "in the round" as it were. > > I'd love to see the whole painting done as a tableau, > with furniture and all. Wouldn't that be exciting. > > Cynthia Hello, The portrait is painted with a landscape background, you can se the castle to the right, far away, so there are no furnitures. I think it is just a little fantasy the painter made with the castle as the only real thing. Even the wall hanging cloth, would be the painters imagination. The curator emailed me and told me that they had a curator visit from Finland. They have a museum with Golden Age paintings (19th century) and they have often invited costume makers to try and recreate some of the portrait costumes. She was very impressed, and also said it was a very fine way to show the public, how they dressed in those days. Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 29 14:45:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8TIjhw8000952 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:45:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TIhQ4d016029 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Sep 2004 12:43:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TIhJnX022035; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 12:43:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TIhGnX021956 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 12:43:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cahuff@mindspring.com) Received: from user-2iniktg.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.121.83.176] helo=[10.0.1.2]) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CCjQ3-0006YD-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:43:15 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200409291804.i8TI4ZnZ090867@net.indra.com> References: <200409291804.i8TI4ZnZ090867@net.indra.com> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:43:08 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: fastusminimus Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Fancy embroidered satin... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh MY I just went into Joanns and cruised the dress cloth section. They have the most loverly embroidered heavy satins. I have no clue if the patterns are appropriate for any period, but they are beyouuuutiful!!! TTa Carol, who just loves to look at pretties!!! -- Creative Clutter is Better Than Idle Neatness! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 29 14:52:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8TIqW8B001187 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:52:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TIpZ4d017077 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Sep 2004 12:51:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TIpTnX028468; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 12:51:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d22.mx.aol.com (imo-d22.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TIpLnX028332 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 12:51:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.7.) id 6.6b.3483b692 (4312) for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:51:11 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <6b.3483b692.2e8c5e1f@aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:51:11 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] My dress on museum To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/29/2004 2:15:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: > I'd love to see the whole painting done as a tableau, > >with furniture and all. Wouldn't that be exciting. > At the Met Museum in NYC, as you may well know, the Costume Institute has been chopped down to a tiny space by the new [and incredible and wonderful] cafeteria. They also haven't had a decent curator since Diane Vreeland, IMHO. But someone in the period furnishings department has brought the costume department into its space and did a show called "Dangerous Liaisons" where you wander [like a fly on the wall] through furnished and dressed [in the set dressing sense....dishes, cards, vases, firescreens, etc] with mannequins dressed in period clothes....and engaging in intrigue, if not common 18th century practices. There's a lady getting her hair dressed, card players, a fainter in the salon and amorous encounters in the parlor and in the sleeping chamber. There are gentlemen, ladies, servants, and even a dog... The lighting was realistic and wonderful [even if dim, due to necessity]. I don't know if it's still up but I hope it opens up a whole new cooperation with the costume institute. Imagine what the period musical interments department [another one of my favorite places] could do! Imagine recreating some of the paintings in the 19th century French section. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 29 14:57:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8TIvDWg001212 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:57:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TIuL4d017557 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Sep 2004 12:56:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TIuEnX032361; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 12:56:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m27.mx.aol.com (imo-m27.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TItfnX031769 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 12:55:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.7.) id 6.6b.3483b699 (4312) for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:55:34 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <6b.3483b699.2e8c5f25@aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:55:33 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Oops X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO interments = instruments Though a musical interment might not be so bad....depending on the music. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 29 15:20:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8TJK2K0001319 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 15:20:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TJJF4d019943 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Sep 2004 13:19:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TJJ7nX050660; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 13:19:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mailrelay.k12.hi.us (mailrelay.k12.hi.us [165.248.247.160]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TJJ4nX050558 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 13:19:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lisleong@k12.hi.us) Received: from WS003 (unknown [165.248.247.156]) by mailrelay.k12.hi.us (Postfix) with SMTP id BE57B3F26 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 09:18:59 -1000 (HST) Received: From makani ([165.248.1.195]) by WS003 (WebShield SMTP v4.5 MR1a P0803.345); id 1096485637718; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 09:20:37 -1000 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 09:15:59 -1000 (HST) From: lisa X-X-Sender: lisleong@makani To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] embroidered lotus slippers In-Reply-To: <200409290840.28811.cathy@thyrsus.com> Message-ID: References: <200409251835.i8PIZenX027932@net.indra.com> <200409290018.34589.cathy@thyrsus.com> <200409290840.28811.cathy@thyrsus.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I haven't looked back at my copy of "Splendid Slippers" yet, though I don't > expect it to be any better. *sigh* It's not. Like Ko, the pictures are beautiful but they and the accompanying shoe information are 19th and 20th century. > By the way, I did a websearch when I saw your original post, trying to find > instances of pre-1800 embroidered lotus shoes and was surprised not to find > any, though I turned up a number of 19th c. ones. I've searched too. I haven't been able to find anything either on the web or in books and my local university library has quite an extensive Asia/Pacific collection. Maybe journal articles? annora _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 29 15:44:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8TJixk2001486 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 15:44:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TJhl4d022830 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Sep 2004 13:43:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TJganX070544; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 13:42:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m25.mx.aol.com (imo-m25.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TJfWnX069733 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 13:41:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from CyndiFLane@aol.com) Received: from CyndiFLane@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.7.) id 6.ea.5977e4c2 (25508) for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 15:41:13 -0400 (EDT) From: CyndiFLane@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 15:41:12 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10709 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 789 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At Hancock's last night, they had a large assortment of beaded trims, 2" - 4" long, in the $6.99 - $7.99 range. Seems to be kind of a "fad" there right now - might be worth a check. I don't know if they have a website. ~Cait In a message dated 9/29/2004 12:54:36 AM Pacific Standard Time, h-costume-request@indra.com writes: > You know, I'd looked at cheeptrims...apparently I missed the perfect (or > at > least, as close to perfect as I'm going to get without spending $50 a > yard!) > trim the first go-round. Problem: I'd always heard that their minimum > order > was $40, but now it's $65. On the other hand, Denver Fabrics has the same > trim...for $32, whereas at CheepTrims it's $16. So I either need to pay > the > $32 (for 10 yards- it's pre-cut from both stores, but that doesn't bother > me > since it means I get wiggle-room), or find more trim! > > Thank you, everyone, for your help. Now I get to ponder whether I can > afford to go nuts over more trim (let's see, what else is on my plate?), or > if I > should just..ow..pay twice the price but less than $65. > > Christine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 29 15:49:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8TJnfeB001515 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 15:49:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TJmq4d023438 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Sep 2004 13:48:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TJlmnX075036; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 13:47:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (chori.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TJkjnX074056 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 13:46:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ldownward@chori.org) Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP-TLS id 1451847 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 12:46:40 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.0.0.040405 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 12:46:40 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] embroidered lotus slippers From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There was a recent Threads or Piecework article on lotus slippers. It was short and I don't remember when the shoes were produced. Really lovely embroidery, however. Good luck in your search. LynnD > From: lisa > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 09:15:59 -1000 (HST) > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] embroidered lotus slippers > >> I haven't looked back at my copy of "Splendid Slippers" yet, though I don't >> expect it to be any better. > > *sigh* It's not. Like Ko, the pictures are beautiful but they and > the accompanying shoe information are 19th and 20th century. > >> By the way, I did a websearch when I saw your original post, trying to find >> instances of pre-1800 embroidered lotus shoes and was surprised not to find >> any, though I turned up a number of 19th c. ones. > > I've searched too. I haven't been able to find anything either on > the web or in books and my local university library has quite an extensive > Asia/Pacific collection. Maybe journal articles? > > annora > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 29 15:51:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8TJpFE9001519 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 15:51:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TJoH4d023567 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Sep 2004 13:50:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TJnHnX076313; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 13:49:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m25.mx.aol.com (imo-m25.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TJlfnX074856 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 13:47:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from CyndiFLane@aol.com) Received: from CyndiFLane@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.7.) id 6.ea.5977e4c2 (25508) for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 15:41:13 -0400 (EDT) From: CyndiFLane@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 15:41:12 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10709 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 789 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At Hancock's last night, they had a large assortment of beaded trims, 2" - 4" long, in the $6.99 - $7.99 range. Seems to be kind of a "fad" there right now - might be worth a check. I don't know if they have a website. ~Cait In a message dated 9/29/2004 12:54:36 AM Pacific Standard Time, h-costume-request@indra.com writes: > You know, I'd looked at cheeptrims...apparently I missed the perfect (or > at > least, as close to perfect as I'm going to get without spending $50 a > yard!) > trim the first go-round. Problem: I'd always heard that their minimum > order > was $40, but now it's $65. On the other hand, Denver Fabrics has the same > trim...for $32, whereas at CheepTrims it's $16. So I either need to pay > the > $32 (for 10 yards- it's pre-cut from both stores, but that doesn't bother > me > since it means I get wiggle-room), or find more trim! > > Thank you, everyone, for your help. Now I get to ponder whether I can > afford to go nuts over more trim (let's see, what else is on my plate?), or > if I > should just..ow..pay twice the price but less than $65. > > Christine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 29 16:06:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8TK6tt4001597 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 16:06:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TK0n4d025101 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:00:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TK0dnX086623; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:00:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TK0XnX086507 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:00:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13557 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 15:08:25 -0500 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 15:08:24 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Reminder, DC lectures X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The person who's arranging my lecture trip to Washington, D.C. on Oct. 16 tells me there are about 15 spaces left. I'll be giving a full day of lectures, covering the Gothic fitted dress, the Greenland gored gown, the 15th-century V-necked gown (Burgundian), the Victorian influence on costume sources, and women's heraldic dress. Information is at http://www.oakenstaff.org/netherton/ . Feel free to forward this to other people/lists that might be interested. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 29 16:16:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8TKGnnK001638 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 16:16:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TK9Y4d025956 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:09:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TK9WnX095098; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:09:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f12.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TK9VnX094989 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:09:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 13:06:13 -0700 Received: from 129.244.6.162 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 20:05:22 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.162] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 15:05:22 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Sep 2004 20:06:13.0525 (UTC) FILETIME=[C5498450:01C4A65F] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 791 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: Lynn Downward >So, Mark, is there a way to use a medieval last and still have the modern >left and right lasts? Who do you think invented rights and lefts? :) Straights are virtually unheard of in medieval lasts. Marc _________________________________________________________________ On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 29 17:24:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8TLOHwO002084 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 17:24:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TLMI4d004593 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Sep 2004 15:22:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TLLinX004794; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 15:21:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m15.mx.aol.com (imo-m15.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.205]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TLLZnX004583 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 15:21:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Chindora@aol.com) Received: from Chindora@aol.com by imo-m15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.7.) id 6.36.6366ef3a (3842) for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 17:21:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Chindora@aol.com Message-ID: <36.6366ef3a.2e8c8151@aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 17:21:21 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5000 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] clarification on beaded trim X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The pattern in question (Butterick 4093, Misses tunic, gown and girdle, C1914) calls for 8.5 yards of 1.75" wide beaded ribbon. It is not a fringe, but rather an embroidered, beaded ribbon that lays flat. I have searched high and low for something like what is on the pattern cover, with zero luck. I am not sure of what I will use as a substitute. Yeah, I could bead plain ribbon to go on the edge of the tunic, but somehow it is not exactly a high priority right now. It really aggravates me when a pattern (and we are not talking Vogue here either) calls for something that is nowhere to be found. ~Kimberley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 29 18:01:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8TM19uK002286 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 18:01:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TM024d008453 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Sep 2004 16:00:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TLxsnX057532; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 15:59:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.suscom.net (smtp1.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TLxpnY057257 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 15:59:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (smtp1 [127.0.0.1]) by smtp1.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5BC0D8846 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 17:54:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp1.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp1 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 20294-05 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 17:54:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip194.182.235.64.susc.suscom.net [64.235.182.194]) by smtp1.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 1109DD8845 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 17:54:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000b01c4a66f$961d2690$c2b6eb40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200409291804.i8TI4ZnZ090867@net.indra.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Fancy embroidered satin... Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 17:59:01 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "fastusminimus" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 2:43 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: Fancy embroidered satin... > Oh MY > I just went into Joanns and cruised the dress cloth section. They > have the most loverly embroidered heavy satins. I have no clue if the > patterns are appropriate for any period, but they are beyouuuutiful!!! Carol Which JoAnn's? Lancaster or York? Dianne > TTa > Carol, who just loves to look at pretties!!! > -- > Creative Clutter is Better Than Idle Neatness! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 29 19:39:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8TNdLKa002893 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 19:39:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TNcF4d018751 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Sep 2004 17:38:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TNc0nX071211; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 17:38:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out010.verizon.net (out010pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TNbunX071171 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 17:37:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jauncourt@verizon.net) Received: from [4.12.167.70] by out010.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040929233756.QQBE23744.out010.verizon.net@[4.12.167.70]> for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 18:37:56 -0500 Message-ID: <415B4757.3000300@verizon.net> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 18:37:59 -0500 From: Maura Folsom User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20040616 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@net.indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out010.verizon.net from [4.12.167.70] at Wed, 29 Sep 2004 18:37:56 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] FO: 18th c. Fashion baby X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO She's actually a re-make, but I thought I'd share :) YOu can see her and read the gory details here: http://www.livejournal.com/users/jauncourt/49944.html Maura _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 29 19:44:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8TNieEj002916 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 19:44:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TNdB4d018839 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Sep 2004 17:39:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TNdAnX071879; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 17:39:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (chori.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8TNd5nX071764 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 17:39:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ldownward@chori.org) Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP-TLS id 1461071 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 16:39:00 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.0.0.040405 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 16:38:58 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 791 From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO So the Victorians in their properness unlearned right/left? Go figure. LynnD > From: Marc Carlson > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 15:05:22 -0500 > To: > Subject: [h-cost] RE: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 791 > >> From: Lynn Downward >> So, Mark, is there a way to use a medieval last and still have the modern >> left and right lasts? > > Who do you think invented rights and lefts? :) Straights are virtually > unheard of in medieval lasts. > > Marc > > _________________________________________________________________ > On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to > get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 29 20:17:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8U0HrUt003014 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 20:17:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8U0HE4d021636 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Sep 2004 18:17:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8U0H7nX092121; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 18:17:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8U0H4nX092074 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 18:17:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA15578 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 19:25:00 -0500 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 19:24:58 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 791 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wed, 29 Sep 2004, Lynn Downward wrote: > So the Victorians in their properness unlearned right/left? Go figure. I remember visiting the shoemaker's shop at Colonial Williamsburg in, hmm, the mid-1970s, and hearing there that "in the old days" shoes were straight, not right-left. The advantage to this, they said, was not only that they were easier to make, but that you could get more wear from the shoes by alternating which feet you wore them on, on a daily basis. I incorrectly assumed it had always been that way beforehand, so was much surprised to find out that medieval shoes were in fact right-left differentiated. Someone later told me that the shift to undifferentiated shoes occurred in the Colonial U.S. because of the expense of shipping lasts from Europe -- they opted for straights so they needed ship only half as many. I'm not sure that rings true. Wouldn't there have to have been straight lasts already in Europe in order to have any to ship in the first place? Wouldn't the original Colonial shoemakers have been trained to do differentiated shoes, and would consider those better, and thus eventually make their own lasts, or ship more when possible? I would love it if someone could give us the real scoop on this. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 29 20:49:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8U0nmsd003100 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 20:49:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8U0mX4d023885 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Sep 2004 18:48:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8U0mMnX008390; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 18:48:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8U0mInX008267 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 18:48:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.145.54]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i8U0m5lv028991 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 10:48:05 +1000 Message-ID: <005801c4a687$093ffa00$3691d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Eleanor Dress??? Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 22:28:52 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 7:48 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Eleanor Dress??? > Is this gown, especially if original, displayed correctly? I don't recall > any 16th c European gowns being designed as off-the-shoulder. Janet Arnold's > reconstruction of Eleanor of Toledo's burial gown doesn't show it as such. > Also if a garment is displayed incorrectly, might it place undue stress on > old, fragile fabrics? Do correct me if I'm wrong. > > Cindy Abel I'm pretty sure It's one of those sitting on the point of the shoulder type dresses, like you seen in 1540s Tudor portraits or later Italian portraits (or venetian at least, I don't know much about other city states' fashions) It's not really off the shoulder in the way that Victorian ballgowns were but it is a very wide neckline. These old fragile fabrics are probably being assisted by modern fabrics so they are not placed under any avoidable stress. Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole in OR in Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra, Australia ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 29 21:16:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8U1GsJY003166 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 21:16:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8U1GD4d025465 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Sep 2004 19:16:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8U1G9nX022167; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 19:16:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8U1G6nX022117 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 19:16:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cahuff@mindspring.com) Received: from user-38lcivo.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.75.248] helo=[10.0.1.2]) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CCpYD-0007YN-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 21:16:06 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200409300049.i8U0nGnZ008828@net.indra.com> References: <200409300049.i8U0nGnZ008828@net.indra.com> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 21:15:57 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: fastusminimus Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re:Fancy Satins... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 6:49 PM -0600 9/29/04, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: > > Oh MY >> I just went into Joanns and cruised the dress cloth section. They >> have the most loverly embroidered heavy satins. I have no clue if the >> patterns are appropriate for any period, but they are beyouuuutiful!!! > >Carol > >Which JoAnn's? Lancaster or York? Belair MD--we live in the deep south of YoCo.... Ta Carol -- Creative Clutter is Better Than Idle Neatness! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 30 00:14:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8U4EHqL003807 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 00:14:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8U4DW4d011568 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Sep 2004 22:13:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8U4DOnX009870; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 22:13:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8U4DInY009822 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 22:13:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i8U4J6qs003471 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 00:19:07 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] embroidered lotus slippers Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 00:24:52 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <200409251835.i8PIZenX027932@net.indra.com> <200409290840.28811.cathy@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200409300024.52160.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 29 September 2004 3:15 pm, lisa wrote: [snip] > > By the way, I did a websearch when I saw your original post, trying to > > find instances of pre-1800 embroidered lotus shoes and was surprised not > > to find any, though I turned up a number of 19th c. ones. > > I've searched too. I haven't been able to find anything either on > the web or in books and my local university library has quite an extensive > Asia/Pacific collection. Maybe journal articles? I don't know what, if any, the professional journals are in this area of costume history, but there is an avenue you can pursue. There appears to be a significant market for collectors of high-priced and genuine Asian antiques, artifacts, and antiquities in general. I know of at least two periodicals aimed at this market, because used copies turn up at 60% off at a used bookstore I frequent. The periodicals are called "Orientations" and "Arts of Asia". They're expensive (AofA retails at $12.50 an issue and Orientations is similar) and the ratio of advertisements to articles is high, but the articles are usually well-written and informative and come accompanied by oodles of excellent photographs, most of which are in full, living color. Most of the articles are about furnishings, paintings or sculpture, but occasionally they feature an article about textiles or costume. (When I do, I usually buy the issue. Both publications sell back issues until they run out of copies, but they do so at full price--unlike my friendly book store.) :-) I have Volume 27 Issue No. 2 (March-April 1997) of AofA here before me. The cover article is on lotus shoes, and features many photos of a particular collector's lotus shoe collection. With regard to your immediate objective this article does not advance the ball (there are a number of pairs of shoes from the "mid-to late 19th c" and several "mid-19th c" but that's as good as it gets). However, there's a bibliography to this article with several sources I've never heard of that might be worth exploring further if you have sufficient interest (I admit I do not, at this point in time). I will photocopy the bibliography and even the article (though no photocopy will do the pictures justice) if you're interested; just send me details by private email. The publisher of Orientations sells books on subjects of interest to its subscribers who can buy them for a special price) . Their prices average $65 per book and up. In addition, I've seen ads for a company called Paragon Book Gallery http://webart.com/paragonbook/ that also sells books about Asian art/textile/costume subjects. The site may be worth exploring. Again, Paragon's stock isn't cheap, but if there's something relevant that's in print they may well have it. Good luck, and let us know if you find an answer! -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 30 01:14:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8U5Ew8l003981 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 01:14:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8U5Ds4d016602 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Sep 2004 23:13:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8U5DNnX037160; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 23:13:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8U5DLnX037118 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 23:13:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B86A82CD87 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 00:13:18 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p282.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.28]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id CD249D3EE for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 00:13:14 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] clarification on beaded trim Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 00:13:24 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <36.6366ef3a.2e8c8151@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wal-Mart in my area [MO] has some beaded trim. It came out about the same time as the pattern. I think though they are slowly phasing them out. What I have seen left is black with silver embroidery and gold beads, $3.49 a yd. It will take a bit longer but you can use the sheer embroidered ribbon and add some beads. De -----Original Message----- The pattern in question (Butterick 4093, Misses tunic, gown and girdle, C1914) calls for 8.5 yards of 1.75" wide beaded ribbon. It is not a fringe, but rather an embroidered, beaded ribbon that lays flat. I have searched high and low for something like what is on the pattern cover, with zero luck. I am not sure of what I will use as a substitute. Yeah, I could bead plain ribbon to go on the edge of the tunic, but somehow it is not exactly a high priority right now. It really aggravates me when a pattern (and we are not talking Vogue here either) calls for something that is nowhere to be found. ~Kimberley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 30 03:59:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8U7xgwo010956 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 03:59:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8U7wQ4d004969 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Sep 2004 01:58:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8U7wInX006197; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 01:58:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk ([193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8U7wAnX005836 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 01:58:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i8U7vTa03718.; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 08:57:30 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 08:57:28 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 08:56:56 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 791 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Victorians? We were wearing straight-lasted shoes in the 17th century. I don't know what the dates of transition from R/L to straight and back again were - anyone? Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> ldownward@chori.org 30/09/2004 00:38:58 >>> So the Victorians in their properness unlearned right/left? Go figure. LynnD _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 30 05:41:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8U9f5fR004265 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 05:41:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8U9eH4d013264 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Sep 2004 03:40:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8U9eBnX044969; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 03:40:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.suscom.net (smtp1.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8U9e8nY044923 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 03:40:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (smtp1 [127.0.0.1]) by smtp1.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 996C5D8777 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 05:34:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp1.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp1 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 17188-01 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 05:34:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip194.182.235.64.susc.suscom.net [64.235.182.194]) by smtp1.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 77B82D8771 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 05:34:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <010201c4a6d1$71890f80$c2b6eb40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200409300049.i8U0nGnZ008828@net.indra.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:Fancy Satins... Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 05:39:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "fastusminimus" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 9:15 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re:Fancy Satins... > >Which JoAnn's? Lancaster or York? > > Belair MD--we live in the deep south of YoCo.... > Ta > Carol Well, pooo. ;-) Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 30 09:19:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8UDJunn007965 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 09:19:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8UDJ84d026203 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Sep 2004 07:19:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8UDIqnX037464; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 07:18:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu ([209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8UDInnX037351 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 07:18:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-8.13) id A7B06F60086; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 09:18:40 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.110 ([209.131.81.110] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 30 Sep 04 13:18:36 -0000 Message-ID: <001e01c4a6f0$fdf0e000$6e5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "H-Costume" Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 09:25:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] embroidered shoes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i8UDJunn007965 Status: RO I checked Piecework for the lotus shoe article and found instead, an article on Chinese children's boots and booties that might be of interest. It can be found in the Sept/Oct 2004 issue. As always, they include a project using the technique. There is also a spread on Embroidered Icons (Russian) . Kathleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 30 10:19:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8UEJI5F008371 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 10:19:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8UEIN4d001162 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Sep 2004 08:18:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8UEIDnX072654; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 08:18:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8UEI4nX072521 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 08:18:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be73.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.115]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id B0A22262854 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 16:18:00 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <002901c4a6f8$524106b0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <415B4757.3000300@verizon.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] FO: 18th c. Fashion baby Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 16:18:11 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Maura, Oh what a lovely doll and dress you made here! It is just after my heart, love it! Did you make the doll also? It is gorgeous Thanks for letting me have a look......... Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maura Folsom" To: Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 1:37 AM Subject: [h-cost] FO: 18th c. Fashion baby > She's actually a re-make, but I thought I'd share :) > YOu can see her and read the gory details here: > http://www.livejournal.com/users/jauncourt/49944.html > > Maura > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 30 10:22:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8UEMTr4008387 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 10:22:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8UELj4d001480 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Sep 2004 08:21:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8UELfnX074962; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 08:21:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8UELcnX074901 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 08:21:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be73.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.115]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 813CE2628A0 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 16:21:35 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <003301c4a6f8$d2a55f90$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <005801c4a687$093ffa00$3691d6cb@ewalpole> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Eleanor Dress??? Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 16:21:48 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Yes i remembered a picture of an elderly lady standing on a balconny in such a dress. I have it in one of my books, but i dont recall now who painted it, and who it was going to portraied. I think as i recall her dress being blue! Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 2:28 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Eleanor Dress??? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cindy Abel" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 7:48 AM > Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Eleanor Dress??? > > > > Is this gown, especially if original, displayed correctly? I don't recall > > any 16th c European gowns being designed as off-the-shoulder. Janet > Arnold's > > reconstruction of Eleanor of Toledo's burial gown doesn't show it as such. > > Also if a garment is displayed incorrectly, might it place undue stress on > > old, fragile fabrics? Do correct me if I'm wrong. > > > > Cindy Abel > > I'm pretty sure It's one of those sitting on the point of the shoulder type > dresses, like you seen in 1540s Tudor portraits or later Italian portraits > (or venetian at least, I don't know much about other city states' fashions) > It's not really off the shoulder in the way that Victorian ballgowns were > but it is a very wide neckline. These old fragile fabrics are probably being > assisted by modern fabrics so they are not placed under any avoidable > stress. > Elizabeth > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ---- > Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole > in OR in > Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra, Australia > ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 30 17:00:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8UL06fC012481 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 17:00:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8UKsG4d018025 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Sep 2004 14:54:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8UKrd2k003393; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 14:53:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tombstone.b.org.nz (qmailr@tombstone.paradise.gen.nz [202.49.254.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8UKr92l003002 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 14:53:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gold@where.else.net.nz) Received: (qmail 611 invoked by uid 1057); 30 Sep 2004 20:53:06 -0000 Received: from gold@where.else.net.nz by tombstone by uid 71 with qmail-scanner-1.22 (clamdscan: 0.70. spamassassin: 2.63. Clear:RC:1(203.79.122.104):. Processed in 0.024249 secs); 30 Sep 2004 20:53:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.0.100?) (gold@203.79.122.104) by tombstone.paradise.gen.nz with SMTP; 30 Sep 2004 20:53:06 -0000 Message-ID: <415C7232.9030707@where.else.net.nz> Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 08:53:06 +1200 From: Melissa Brown User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.2 (Windows/20040707) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] On lacing the GFD (aka Cotehardie) References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all, Thanks to Robin and Chris for responding to my query. Robin, I passed on the info you so graciously provided. My friend rescinds his former statement about buttons on the under/supportive dress layer. :-) Lacing it is! Cheers, Melissa > On Tue, 28 Sep 2004, Melissa Brown wrote: > > >>My question is this: Is there evidence for lacing in the >>first/supporting layer of a Gothic fitted dress? I ask because I am >>just beginning to make my very first one and have been told by a >>costume laurel here that the underdress should have flat buttons and >>that lacing isn't accurate. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 30 18:47:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8UMl4pb012934 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 18:47:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8UMkB4d000970 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Sep 2004 16:46:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8UMkA9w088473; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 16:46:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m26.mx.aol.com (imo-m26.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8UMk69w088381 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 16:46:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Kitsune242@aol.com) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-m26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.7.) id 6.100.319b186 (15887) for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 18:45:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aol.com (mow-d22.webmail.aol.com [205.188.139.163]) by air-id08.mx.aol.com (v101_r1.4) with ESMTP id MAILINID82-3e0f415c8ca5350; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 18:45:57 -0400 Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 18:45:57 -0400 From: Kitsune242@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <724DC18E.7726DA97.0BD9917F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 169.237.109.158 X-AOL-Language: english Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Alteryears X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Does anyone know how to get ahold of Alteryears? -- Kit If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - Kenneth Cole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 30 18:59:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8UMxNLI012984 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 18:59:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8UM8X4d026470 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Sep 2004 16:08:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8UM8N9w061636; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 16:08:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out010.verizon.net (out010pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8UM869w061348 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 16:08:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jauncourt@verizon.net) Received: from [4.12.167.70] by out010.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20040930220805.BXWR23744.out010.verizon.net@[4.12.167.70]> for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 17:08:05 -0500 Message-ID: <415C83CA.4080002@verizon.net> Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 17:08:10 -0500 From: Maura Folsom User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20040616 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <200409301802.i8UI2Q2l052409@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: <200409301802.i8UI2Q2l052409@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out010.verizon.net from [4.12.167.70] at Thu, 30 Sep 2004 17:08:05 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: FO: 18th c. Fashion baby X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne wrote: > Hi Maura, > Oh what a lovely doll and dress you made here! It is just after my heart, > love it! > Did you make the doll also? Yes. I had originally made her about 10 years ago, as I wanted a 'fashion baby' sized to fit most of Janet Arnold's pattern book diagrams without much fiddling. I did a ... bad, I should say, job on the original head and this is the result my taking her apart, doing some maintenance on her clothes, and making her look nicer. > It is gorgeous Thank you! I hope other people got to see it before my photo host went down (they lost the whole disk cluster that had my account on it so I can't even log in ...grr). I'll probably put up a page on her, along with all those other pages I have to edit and post - you know, in my spare time! ;) Maura _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 30 19:32:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8UNWk8F013105 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 19:32:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8UNW94d005028 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Sep 2004 17:32:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8UNW39w016240; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 17:32:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8UNW19w016205 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 17:32:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.179] (p19.3c04.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.179]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i8UNULD19069 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 17:30:22 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <724DC18E.7726DA97.0BD9917F@aol.com> References: <724DC18E.7726DA97.0BD9917F@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <8519CF63-1339-11D9-A6CA-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Alteryears Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 17:36:15 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sep 30, 2004, at 4:45 PM, Kitsune242@aol.com wrote: > Does anyone know how to get ahold of Alteryears? > > -- > Kit > If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - > Kenneth Cole > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 30 19:58:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i8UNwBFj013191 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 19:58:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8UNvK4d007102 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Sep 2004 17:57:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8UNvI9w030941; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 17:57:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8UNvH9w030926 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 17:57:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.100]) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CDAnV-0005nR-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 16:57:17 -0700 Message-ID: <415C9D5D.3070701@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 16:57:17 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Eleanor Dress??? References: <4158B73C.4070607@in-tch.com> In-Reply-To: <4158B73C.4070607@in-tch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It looks similar in style and color to the portrait of her with the blue background (When she was fairly young). She wears a pearl covered partlet. I have a good copy of it if anyone would like to see it. Sg Sue Clemenger wrote: > This website says that this gown was worn by Eleanor of Toledo, but I > don't think I've ever seen it before. Does anyone know anything more > about it? > It's awfully pretty...I think I want it, regardless of who wore the > original! > --sue > > http://www.wonders.org/images/gallery4.jpg > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 30 21:55:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i911tAA5013840 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 21:55:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i911sX4d015302 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Sep 2004 19:54:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i911s19w085782; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 19:54:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web13524.mail.yahoo.com (web13524.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.162]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i911rc9w085652 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 19:53:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pioneercynthia@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20041001015338.66111.qmail@web13524.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.68.59.160] by web13524.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 18:53:38 PDT Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 18:53:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Ms Cynthia Schrage To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200409191801.i8JI0rYI022746@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Costume Bibliography X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey all, Someone on this list sent me a large bibliography of costuming resources and then my computer went off line. Would Whoever it was, please send it to me again. Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!! Cynthia __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 1 00:40:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i914erUb019587 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 2004 00:40:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i914du4d025543 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Sep 2004 22:39:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i914df9w065294; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 22:39:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mailrelay.k12.hi.us (mailrelay.k12.hi.us [165.248.247.160]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i914db9w065195 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 22:39:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lisleong@k12.hi.us) Received: from WS003 (unknown [165.248.247.156]) by mailrelay.k12.hi.us (Postfix) with SMTP id D43263F05 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 18:39:29 -1000 (HST) Received: From makani ([165.248.1.195]) by WS003 (WebShield SMTP v4.5 MR1a P0803.345); id 1096605569189; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 18:39:29 -1000 Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 18:36:29 -1000 (HST) From: lisa X-X-Sender: lisleong@makani To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] embroidered lotus slippers In-Reply-To: <200409300024.52160.cathy@thyrsus.com> Message-ID: References: <200409251835.i8PIZenX027932@net.indra.com> <200409290840.28811.cathy@thyrsus.com> <200409300024.52160.cathy@thyrsus.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 30 Sep 2004, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > There appears to be a significant market for collectors of high-priced and > genuine Asian antiques, artifacts, and antiquities in general. I know of at > least two periodicals aimed at this market, because used copies turn up at > 60% off at a used bookstore I frequent. The periodicals are called > "Orientations" and "Arts of Asia". Thank you so much for this information! I really appreciate your offer to copy the bibilography from the article but by extreme good luck my university library subscribes to both periodicals :-D. Thank you also to the person who brought up Piecework. I'll go and pick one up. --annora _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 1 02:35:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i916ZvQ9000970 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 2004 02:35:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i916Yh4d001985 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 1 Oct 2004 00:34:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i916YV9w017105; Fri, 1 Oct 2004 00:34:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from indirectobject.com (066-241-084-045.bus.ashlandfiber.net [66.241.84.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i916YO9w017030 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 2004 00:34:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rreed@indirectobject.com) Message-Id: <200410010634.i916YO9w017030@net.indra.com> Received: from synergy ([192.168.1.1]) by indirectobject.com (WWW [192.168.1.200]) (MDaemon.PRO.v6.8.5.R) with ESMTP id 46-md50000000011.tmp for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2004 23:33:34 -0700 From: To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Eleanor Dress??? Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 23:33:40 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 In-Reply-To: <415C9D5D.3070701@earthlink.net> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-Index: AcSnSdpKaqmfvgDVQfSCGmevzD8D3AANo97w X-Spam-Processed: WWW, Thu, 30 Sep 2004 23:33:34 -0700 (not processed: message from valid local sender) X-MDRemoteIP: 192.168.1.1 X-Return-Path: rreed@indirectobject.com X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: h-costume@indra.com X-DCC-NIET-Metrics: net.indra.com 1080; env_From=1 Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I would love to see it. Is it on your website or can you forward it? Becky -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Wicked Frau Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 4:57 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Eleanor Dress??? It looks similar in style and color to the portrait of her with the blue background (When she was fairly young). She wears a pearl covered partlet. I have a good copy of it if anyone would like to see it. Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume