From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 1 09:35:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i91DZBke024292 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 2004 09:35:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i91DYd4d014964 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 1 Oct 2004 07:34:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i91DYY9w007273; Fri, 1 Oct 2004 07:34:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com ([199.170.202.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i91DYW9w007224 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 2004 07:34:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i91DvWTP061096 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 2004 09:57:32 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: (from sfarmer@localhost) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3/Submit) id i91DvW6q061095 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 1 Oct 2004 09:57:32 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 09:57:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Farmer Message-Id: <200410011357.i91DvW6q061095@sabre.goldsword.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: FO: 18th c. Fashion baby In-Reply-To: <415C83CA.4080002@verizon.net> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Yes. I had originally made her about 10 years ago, as I wanted a > 'fashion baby' sized to fit most of Janet Arnold's pattern book diagrams > without much fiddling. I did a ... bad, I should say, job on the > original head and this is the result my taking her apart, doing some > maintenance on her clothes, and making her look nicer. > *snippage* > > I'll probably put up a page on her, along with all those other pages I > have to edit and post - you know, in my spare time! ;) Hmmm -- this just might answer the question that I was about to ask -- *how* did you make her? I want one too! :-) Jerusha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 1 14:34:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i91IYi4w027105 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 2004 14:34:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i91ISu4d018267 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 1 Oct 2004 12:28:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i91ISd9w027287; Fri, 1 Oct 2004 12:28:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m18.mx.aol.com (imo-m18.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i91ISa9w027196 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 2004 12:28:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Kitsune242@aol.com) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-m18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.7.) id 6.141.352484c3 (15886) for ; Fri, 1 Oct 2004 14:28:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aol.com (mow-d15.webmail.aol.com [205.188.139.131]) by air-id08.mx.aol.com (v101_r1.4) with ESMTP id MAILINID81-3e0e415da1c91d2; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 14:28:26 -0400 Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 14:28:25 -0400 From: Kitsune242@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Alteryears MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <499FEDB8.1B896479.0BD9917F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 169.237.109.158 X-AOL-Language: english Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sylvia, Was there a reply in here than I am missing? Kit In a message dated 9/30/2004 7:36:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Sylvia Rognstad writes: > >On Sep 30, 2004, at 4:45 PM, Kitsune242@aol.com wrote: > >> Does anyone know how to get ahold of Alteryears? >> >> -- >> Kit >> If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - >> Kenneth Cole >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > -- Kit If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - Kenneth Cole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 1 18:25:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i91MPFwR028348 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 2004 18:25:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i91MOS4d015603 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 1 Oct 2004 16:24:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i91MOF9w007314; Fri, 1 Oct 2004 16:24:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i91MOB9w007245 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 2004 16:24:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.111] (p47.3c02.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.111]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i91MMVD23193 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 2004 16:22:31 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <499FEDB8.1B896479.0BD9917F@aol.com> References: <499FEDB8.1B896479.0BD9917F@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <37AFCC42-13F9-11D9-9D8D-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Alteryears Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 16:28:28 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry. I accidentally hit the wrong button. On Oct 1, 2004, at 12:28 PM, Kitsune242@aol.com wrote: > Sylvia, > > Was there a reply in here than I am missing? > > Kit > > In a message dated 9/30/2004 7:36:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Sylvia > Rognstad writes: > >> >> On Sep 30, 2004, at 4:45 PM, Kitsune242@aol.com wrote: >> >>> Does anyone know how to get ahold of Alteryears? >>> >>> -- >>> Kit >>> If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? >>> - >>> Kenneth Cole >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> h-costume mailing list >>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > > -- > Kit > If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - > Kenneth Cole > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 2 01:55:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i925tUx8029853 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 2004 01:55:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i925sn4d022201 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 1 Oct 2004 23:54:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i925sc9w045288; Fri, 1 Oct 2004 23:54:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i925sa9x045262 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 1 Oct 2004 23:54:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i9260ZDE023885 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 2004 02:00:35 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] embroidered lotus slippers Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 02:06:20 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <200409251835.i8PIZenX027932@net.indra.com> <200409300024.52160.cathy@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200410020206.20381.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 01 October 2004 12:36 am, lisa wrote: > On Thu, 30 Sep 2004, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > > There appears to be a significant market for collectors of high-priced > > and genuine Asian antiques, artifacts, and antiquities in general. I > > know of at least two periodicals aimed at this market, because used > > copies turn up at 60% off at a used bookstore I frequent. The > > periodicals are called "Orientations" and "Arts of Asia". > > Thank you so much for this information! I really appreciate your > offer to copy the bibilography from the article but by extreme good luck > my university library subscribes to both periodicals :-D. Thank you also > to the person who brought up Piecework. I'll go and pick one up. You're welcome. Now, bear in mind as I said that a lot of issues don't have any material relating to costume or textiles. Still, some do, and the articles they publish on said subjects are fascinating. Good luck! -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 2 02:57:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i926vlOS004304 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 2004 02:57:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i926ux4d025090 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 2 Oct 2004 00:57:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i926us9w075825; Sat, 2 Oct 2004 00:56:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from indirectobject.com (066-241-084-045.bus.ashlandfiber.net [66.241.84.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i926up9w075767 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 2004 00:56:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rreed@indirectobject.com) Message-Id: <200410020656.i926up9w075767@net.indra.com> Received: from synergy ([192.168.1.1]) by indirectobject.com (WWW [192.168.1.200]) (MDaemon.PRO.v6.8.5.R) with ESMTP id 1-md50000000013.tmp for ; Fri, 01 Oct 2004 23:56:01 -0700 From: To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 23:56:13 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <200410020206.20381.cathy@thyrsus.com> Thread-Index: AcSoRNnjKgGTun7iTJassq+tx3HYcAAB5xIg X-Spam-Processed: WWW, Fri, 01 Oct 2004 23:56:01 -0700 (not processed: message from valid local sender) X-MDRemoteIP: 192.168.1.1 X-Return-Path: rreed@indirectobject.com X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Silk X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was curious to find out what would be the best type of silk to line a linen or velvet bodice or doublet? What is most comfortable and durable? Would you suggest using silk as a lining fabric? What's the popular opinion? Thanks, Becky _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 2 05:16:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i929GtWv027060 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 2004 05:16:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i929GL4d012158 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 2 Oct 2004 03:16:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i929G69w037188; Sat, 2 Oct 2004 03:16:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i929G59w037153 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 2004 03:16:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gia_gavino@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.114 ([204.127.197.114]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <20041002091559015003840te>; Sat, 2 Oct 2004 09:15:59 +0000 Received: from [24.16.244.181] by 204.127.197.114; Sat, 02 Oct 2004 09:15:57 +0000 From: gia_gavino@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silk Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 09:15:57 +0000 Message-Id: <100220040915.18999.415E71CD000475C200004A372200750330010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Sep 14 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: Z2lhX2dhdmlub0Bjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi! Silk or linen are my preferred fibers for lining. For fancy-schmancy doublets, bodice linings, and sleeves linings, I prefer silk if I'm making the garment out of silk. No raw silk or duponi! Use a good quality silk for the lining, or the wear and tear that naturally occurs on the inside of the garment may shred the material. For garments made with wool or linen I prefer 100% linen for linings. Depending on whether or not the garment(s) will be dry cleaned or not, I try to be sure that the main fabric and the lining will react similarly (shrinkage, colorfastness, etc.). *Usually* (and there are exceptions to this) I wash both before construction. But, as always, it depends on what is period. Other criteria includes who is wearing the said garment(s), for what purpose, and what kind of wear (indoors or outdoors) will be endured. *sigh*...Clear as mud, huh? I hope this helps.... -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > I was curious to find out what would be the best type of silk to line a > linen or velvet bodice or doublet? What is most comfortable and durable? > Would you suggest using silk as a lining fabric? What's the popular > opinion? > > Thanks, > Becky > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 2 11:23:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i92FNOCE031359 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 2004 11:23:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i92FMi4d003402 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 2 Oct 2004 09:22:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i92FLJtL020720; Sat, 2 Oct 2004 09:21:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail11.mdx.safepages.com (mail11.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i92FLFtL020660 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 2004 09:21:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id B095EA0794; Sat, 2 Oct 2004 15:21:17 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust227.tnt1.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.148.227]) by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 82977A082E for ; Sat, 2 Oct 2004 15:21:15 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <000801c4a893$76e207c0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200410020656.i926up9w075767@net.indra.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silk Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 10:21:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My advice? Don't use the !1#&$%1 floaty sorts of silk like charmeuse or china silk/habotai as lining; they'll make you wish silk were never invented. I'm not saying that the end result, when done well, isn't nice--but the process will drive you nuts. (I've stopped using china silk for anything larger than facings, lately, and I won't touch charmeuse.) Since a doublet is pretty structural anyway, I'd use something stiffer and less maddening, like taffeta or silk twill. -E ----- Original Message ----- From: > I was curious to find out what would be the best type of silk to line a > linen or velvet bodice or doublet? What is most comfortable and durable? > Would you suggest using silk as a lining fabric? What's the popular > opinion? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 2 14:45:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i92IjbbN032069 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 2004 14:45:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i92Iec4n016818 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 2 Oct 2004 12:44:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i92IBEtL017522; Sat, 2 Oct 2004 12:11:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i92IBBtL017482 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 2004 12:11:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1CDoLc-000EsM-8j for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 02 Oct 2004 18:11:08 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 19:09:35 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 791 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote > >On Wed, 29 Sep 2004, Lynn Downward wrote: > >> So the Victorians in their properness unlearned right/left? Go figure. > >I remember visiting the shoemaker's shop at Colonial Williamsburg in, hmm, >the mid-1970s, and hearing there that "in the old days" shoes were >straight, not right-left. The advantage to this, they said, was not only >that they were easier to make, but that you could get more wear from the >shoes by alternating which feet you wore them on, on a daily basis. > How would you ever get shoes worn in if you did this? Wouldn't they just be permanently uncomfortable, never actually moulding to your feet? Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 2 15:24:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i92JOieG032199 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 2004 15:24:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i92JO94d019501 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 2 Oct 2004 13:24:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i92JMvtL055164; Sat, 2 Oct 2004 13:22:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i92JMstL055076 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 2004 13:22:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gia_gavino@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.113 ([204.127.197.113]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <2004100219224901300c5fnqe>; Sat, 2 Oct 2004 19:22:49 +0000 Received: from [24.16.244.181] by 204.127.197.113; Sat, 02 Oct 2004 19:22:46 +0000 From: gia_gavino@comcast.net To: h-costume@indra.com (Costume Historical), stephaniebonsanti@hotmail.com (Stephanie Bonsanti), AnTirMerchants@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 19:22:46 +0000 Message-Id: <100220041922.24444.415F0006000D1AEC00005F7C2200745672010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Sep 14 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: Z2lhX2dhdmlub0Bjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] (no subject) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings everyone! Well, I've gotten to the point in my business where I've got to come up with a business plan. I've got no idea where to start, so I thought to turn to you lovely folks. Please email me off list if you can help or advise on how to do this. Unfortunately, I have a very strict deadline of getting this submitted by mid-October. Any assistance would be wonderful! Thank you! -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 2 19:04:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i92N40Sk000551 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 2004 19:04:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i92N354d005643 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 2 Oct 2004 17:03:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i92N1ktL065383; Sat, 2 Oct 2004 17:01:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i92N1jtL065328 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 2004 17:01:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lauren.walker@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (h0006255ec5ea.ne.client2.attbi.com[66.31.43.36]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <2004100223013901600bv66ne>; Sat, 2 Oct 2004 23:01:39 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 19:00:35 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 791 From: Lauren Walker To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Turns out that "switching them every day" thing is pure myth -- your suspicion that they'd just never be comfortable is accurate. In examinations of archaeological finds of straight-lasted shoes it is apparent that they were earmarked for one foot or the other and broken in to suit just one foot, left or right. For quick-and-dirty summary of the evidence, re-enactment shoemaker Fugawee has this to say: http://www.fugawee.com/Men's%20Colonial.htm I'm sure there are better sources but this about covers it. Lauren > From: Jean Waddie > Robin Netherton wrote >> >> On Wed, 29 Sep 2004, Lynn Downward wrote: >> >>> So the Victorians in their properness unlearned right/left? Go figure. >> >> I remember visiting the shoemaker's shop at Colonial Williamsburg in, hmm, >> the mid-1970s, and hearing there that "in the old days" shoes were >> straight, not right-left. The advantage to this, they said, was not only >> that they were easier to make, but that you could get more wear from the >> shoes by alternating which feet you wore them on, on a daily basis. >> > How would you ever get shoes worn in if you did this? Wouldn't they > just be permanently uncomfortable, never actually moulding to your feet? > > Jean > > > -- > Jean Waddie > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 2 22:49:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i932nftg001057 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 2004 22:49:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i932mt3x008908 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 2 Oct 2004 20:48:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i932mlvg063268; Sat, 2 Oct 2004 20:48:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out007.verizon.net (out007pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.107]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i932mjvg063240 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 2004 20:48:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from Fiona ([162.83.121.254]) by out007.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20041003024844.BBJM1210.out007.verizon.net@Fiona> for ; Sat, 2 Oct 2004 21:48:44 -0500 From: "Ron Carnegie" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 791 Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 22:48:44 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out007.verizon.net from [162.83.121.254] at Sat, 2 Oct 2004 21:48:44 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello, The real reason for straight last shoes is to save money. One last is need for each size rather than two. even in the 18th century shoes were occasionally not straight last. Now it is more than a little possible that Colonial Williamsburg was saying this back in the seventies, but they will not say it today. Al Saguto (the master of the shop ) has pointed out that shoes, even straight last are if properly made still left and right. This is because the human ankle is not symmetrical. Al states that it is obvious from original shoes that they did not transfer them from foot to foot as they are in fact worn. I did not see the original post here, but straight last shoes are going away for much of the Victorian period. Ron Carnegie > > I'm sure there are better sources but this about covers it. > Lauren > > > From: Jean Waddie > > > Robin Netherton wrote > >> > >> On Wed, 29 Sep 2004, Lynn Downward wrote: > >>> So the Victorians in their properness unlearned right/left? Go figure. > >> > >> I remember visiting the shoemaker's shop at Colonial > Williamsburg in, hmm, > >> the mid-1970s, and hearing there that "in the old days" shoes were > >> straight, not right-left. The advantage to this, they said, > was not only > >> that they were easier to make, but that you could get more > wear from the > >> shoes by alternating which feet you wore them on, on a daily basis. > >> > > How would you ever get shoes worn in if you did this? Wouldn't they > > just be permanently uncomfortable, never actually moulding to your feet? > > > > Jean > > > > > > -- > > Jean Waddie > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 3 03:24:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i937Ot5a002029 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 03:24:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i937O13x026383 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 3 Oct 2004 01:24:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i937Nqvg081572; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 01:23:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from audiogram.mail.pas.earthlink.net (audiogram.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.253]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i937Novg081560 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 01:23:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from dialup-4.152.198.8.dial1.atlanta1.level3.net ([4.152.198.8] helo=MOM) by audiogram.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CE0ij-0005ha-MQ for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 03 Oct 2004 00:23:50 -0700 Message-ID: <000f01c4a919$f9eb9920$0a3bfea9@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 03:23:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 140fedcc4d524cc6b18d26c2e407058b94f5150ab1c16ac08f4233f47979de2618d310cc51285c3a365c83d9ea29cc02350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.152.198.8 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] What is this used for X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i937Ot5a002029 Status: RO I am working on an 1877 etiquette book. In it is a recipe for Ox-marrow Pomatum. Does anyone know what this is and what it was used for? Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Online Reference Library, AND Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumegallery.com/research.htm www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 3 05:01:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i93919uU010449 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 05:01:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9390e3x011161 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 3 Oct 2004 03:00:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9390bvg019957; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 03:00:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web53107.mail.yahoo.com (web53107.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.210]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9390Zvg019923 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 03:00:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from smnco37@yahoo.co.uk) Message-ID: <20041003090025.35664.qmail@web53107.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [82.112.139.165] by web53107.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 03 Oct 2004 10:00:25 BST Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 10:00:25 +0100 (BST) From: julian wilson To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <000f01c4a919$f9eb9920$0a3bfea9@MOM> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Ox-marrow pomatum. What is this used for? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Penny Ladnier wrote: I am working on an 1877 etiquette book. In it is a recipe for Ox-marrow Pomatum. Does anyone know what this is and what it was used for? ANSWER Dear Penny, I've done a lot of reading of Victorian-period books, articles, magazines, - and though I haven't come across that particular recipe before, I'd say that the root word "pomatum" indicates it's a recipe for some kind of "Dressing" for mens' hair - head, or beard, or moustachios. The use of ox-marrow would suggest to the victorian reader - [potential buyer/user] - that the concoction "worked" by the transfer of some of the putative strength of the ox into the pomatum [pomade?] - and thence to the user, whence it might be absorbed into the hair system, and stimulate growth. A lot of Victorian "commercial psuedo-science" was thought to work like that. As an example, I commend to you the outrageous pseudo-scientific arguments of the self-appointed English "scientific expert" Dr. Dionysius Lardner. One of his more outrageous pronouncements concerned the speed of travel of the then-new railways; - "that passengers will be suffocated through being unable to breath if trains go too fast. The air will be sucked from their lungs" he said. In sum, my first guess would be that this "pomatum" was intended as a stimulant for men who were losing their hair, and wanted it to grow more thickly; or had already lost it, and wanted it to grow back. BTW, in a costume connection to railways - many years ago, I once read somewhere that the width of Victorian 2nd Class and First Class railway-carraige doors, - and the widths of those compartments behind - were determined by the width and bulk of Ladies skirts, at the time. In service, Julian, in "olde" Jersey, 15 miles off the French coast, where there were once two, separate, railways. --------------------------------- ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 3 05:40:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i939eKLC010559 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 05:40:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i939dj3x014360 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 3 Oct 2004 03:39:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i939dgvg035599; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 03:39:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from linda-1.paradise.net.nz (bm-1a.paradise.net.nz [202.0.58.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i939devg035548 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 03:39:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from geard@verso.org) Received: from smtp-2.paradise.net.nz (smtp-2a.paradise.net.nz [202.0.32.195]) by linda-1.paradise.net.nz (Paradise.net.nz) with ESMTP id <0I5000AO35HTGK@linda-1.paradise.net.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 03 Oct 2004 22:39:29 +1300 (NZDT) Received: from ajax.verso.org (203-79-119-132.cable.paradise.net.nz [203.79.119.132]) by smtp-2.paradise.net.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99FAC9E901 for ; Sun, 03 Oct 2004 22:39:22 +1300 (NZDT) Received: from libre.verso.org (libre [192.168.255.21]) by ajax.verso.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F2FD87D15 for ; Sun, 03 Oct 2004 22:50:32 +1300 (NZDT) Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 21:39:14 +1200 From: Jennifer Geard Subject: Re: [h-cost] What is this used for In-reply-to: <000f01c4a919$f9eb9920$0a3bfea9@MOM> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <200410032239.14487.geard@verso.org> Organization: Verso MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: KMail/1.6.1 References: <000f01c4a919$f9eb9920$0a3bfea9@MOM> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 20:23, Penny Ladnier wrote: > I am working on an 1877 etiquette book. In it is a recipe for Ox-marrow > Pomatum. Does anyone know what this is and what it was used for? A pomade or pomatum is a perfumed ointment for the hair and scalp. It might be used as a hair dressing or rubbed into the scalp to encourage lush growth of hair. Your recipe wouldn't be the only one to use marrow as a base for a pomatum. Try searching for "marrrow" in the following two pages: http://www.theladiesparlor.com/63may.htm http://www.mspong.org/cyclopedia/perfumery.html While the Victorians were not immune to the call of sympathetic magic, I'd expect that ox marrow -- from beef bones -- was simply a readily-available fatty base for ointments. Yours, Jennifer -- Jennifer Geard _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 3 09:17:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i93DH2G1015612 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 09:17:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i93DGT3x022517 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 3 Oct 2004 07:16:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i93DGLvg023412; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 07:16:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i93DGIvg023303 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 07:16:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f4a.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.74]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 59B61262861 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 15:16:02 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000f01c4a94b$2e8fbdb0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 15:16:23 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] stomacher with birdcoupple X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, For Alexias new dress i am going to make this winter season, i have made a design for the stomacher. Alexia wanted me to incooperate a little annimal, and i chose a birdcoupple sitting in the middle. I would like to invite you to se it. Here: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/helmspatterns.htm It is the second stomacher design. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 3 10:07:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i93E73n0015795 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 10:07:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i93E5t3x025286 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 3 Oct 2004 08:05:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i93E5qvg045491; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 08:05:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web51301.mail.yahoo.com (web51301.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.167]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i93E5ovg045441 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 08:05:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elvestoorder@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20041003140545.87332.qmail@web51301.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.237.35.140] by web51301.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 03 Oct 2004 07:05:45 PDT Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 07:05:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Ann Catelli Subject: Re: [h-cost] stomacher with birdcoupple To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <000f01c4a94b$2e8fbdb0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That is a charming design. I look forward to seeing it with the added richness of your beautiful embroidery. Ann in CT --- Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi, > For Alexias new dress i am going to make this winter > season, i have made a > design for the stomacher. Alexia wanted me to > incooperate a little annimal, > and i chose a birdcoupple sitting in the middle. > I would like to invite you to se it. > Here: > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/helmspatterns.htm > > Bjarne _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 3 11:34:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i93FYE2D016165 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 11:34:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i93FXg3x029995 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 3 Oct 2004 09:33:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i93FXWvg086318; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 09:33:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i93FXRvh086277 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 09:33:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i93FdYZh023707 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 11:39:35 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] stomacher with birdcoupple Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 11:45:20 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <20041003140545.87332.qmail@web51301.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20041003140545.87332.qmail@web51301.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200410031145.20247.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sunday 03 October 2004 10:05 am, Ann Catelli wrote: > That is a charming design. > > I look forward to seeing it with the added richness of > your beautiful embroidery. I agree, on both counts! -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 3 11:35:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i93FZDrO016179 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 11:35:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i93FYe3x000204 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 3 Oct 2004 09:34:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i93FYevg086848; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 09:34:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i93FYcvg086806 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 09:34:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from betsy@softwareinnovation.com) Received: from theforce ([64.0.176.13]) by softwareinnovation.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Sun, 3 Oct 2004 10:33:38 -0500 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] My next frustration: belts & metalwork Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 10:34:58 -0500 Message-ID: <006701c4a95e$8adfa8b0$0db00040@softwareinnovation.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 In-Reply-To: <00c801c4a31e$097ed570$0400a8c0@compaqub> Importance: Normal X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Oct 2004 15:33:39.0201 (UTC) FILETIME=[5B00B710:01C4A95E] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO May I offer you this link? http://www.ganoksin.com/orchid/archive/200407/thrd10.htm#01229 look for the thread of "Thoughts on PMC?" you will find many knowledgeable speakers and users, the vast majority are professional jewelers, and open to questions! HTH, Betsy A subsequent search of the Orchid Archives will reveal other threads on Torch firing PMC, and/or enamel; where no kiln is required. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of E House Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 11:38 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] My next frustration: belts & metalwork snip.. On that note, I came across an interesting sort of material--precious metal clay, and art clay (silver clay stuff). The stuff is tiny metal particles, in a binder that makes it workable as though it were clay; when you fire it, the binder is burnt off, leaving only the metal. The advantages are that it's much simpler to work with, and that you need to invest less in equipment, and also that it's something (I hope) I could do in an apartment. The drawbacks are that the metal clay itself is a good deal more expensive than just buying normal metal, and that the one big equipment cost is a small kiln, which runs ~$600. Has anyone ever tried this stuff? Is it worth it, or would I be better off learning how to cast and all of that mess? Could I really do it in my apartment? Are there any horrible fumes I'd be exposed to? Is there, by any chance, some type of business that might let me buy the occasional scrap of space in their kiln, so that I could try it a few times before buying a kiln? -E House Liberty in Our Lifetime - www.freestateproject.org Coming Soon - http://www.seamcheckers.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 3 12:07:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i93G6xEn016398 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 12:07:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i93G6R3x001825 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 3 Oct 2004 10:06:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i93G6Ivg001552; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 10:06:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i93G6Fvh001509 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 10:06:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-39.sonic.net [209.148.113.39]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i93G6CWX005408 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 09:06:13 -0700 Message-ID: <416023A1.70608@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 09:06:57 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 791 References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It depends on how soft the shoes are. Modern ballet slippers (I'm not talking about hard toe shoes) are not made with rights/lefts. The leather is very soft and the shoes are adjusted with a drawstring. It's a primitive shoe design. If you wear a ballet slipper on the same foot time after time it will eventually mold itself to that foot, but the shoe is so soft such molding makes little difference. I forget if the "ghilles" made for Scottish dance have rights/lefts, but as they are a similar soft shoe adjusted with lacings, they may not. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming Two new books! http://www.lavoltapress.com >> > How would you ever get shoes worn in if you did this? Wouldn't they > just be permanently uncomfortable, never actually moulding to your feet? > > Jean > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 3 14:09:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i93I9moL017187 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 14:09:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i93I2g3x008495 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 3 Oct 2004 12:02:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i93Hxwvg055292; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 11:59:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i93Hxtvg055267 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 11:59:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from heather.jones@earthlink.net) Received: from h-68-164-171-143.snfccasy.dynamic.covad.net ([68.164.171.143] helo=[10.0.1.2]) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CEAeH-00045M-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 03 Oct 2004 10:59:53 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20040727222119.01177d30@pop.surewest.net> References: <200407271758.i6RHvulm088559@net.indra.com> <4.2.2.20040727222119.01177d30@pop.surewest.net> Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 10:59:37 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] ca. 1750 sack dress -- Unfinished Project Free to Good Home X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO (NOTE: Please send "dibs!" messages directly to me -- not to the list.) First a little story ... Once upon a time, a little over 20 years ago, I was fresh out of college and job-hunting, and while I was suspended in that state of no income, I wandered into a fabric store (mistake, of course) and saw this beautiful bolt of fabric. It was a 100% cotton damask, in a sort of mossy pea-green, with 2"-wide stripes and sprigs of lily-of-the-valley (all done as a damask weave effect -- solid color). I fell in love with the fabric and felt that it desperately wanted to be a mid/late 18th century gown ... never mind the fact that I had and have absolutely no excuses to wear 18th century gowns. But I was in love (with the fabric) so logic went out the window, and I told myself that if the fabric was still there in the store when I got a job, I'd buy it to celebrate. Well, it was; and I did. And in my usual can't-wait-to-get-started fashion, I started putting the gown together before I'd done anything sensible like making underpinnings. So I got to the point where I couldn't go any further without coming up with a corset and panniers and I set it aside until I'd gotten around to doing that part. Twenty years pass. Well, not only did I never get around to making the underpinnings (which may have had something to do with never having had an excuse/deadline for finishing the dress), but there's a reasonably good chance I'll never be the same size and shape I was when I drafted the dress. And being in the middle of completely re-organizing my sewing space, I decided it was time to find a good home for what is still one of my most gorgeous pieces of fabric I ever bought. So I would like to offer up this project and all the accompanying materials FREE to someone who: 1) Will finish it. 2) Will wear it (or finish it for someone else who will wear it). 3) Will send me pictures. Here are some specifics: I took the pattern from Norah Waugh's "The Cut of Women's Clothes 1600-1930" from Diagram XV "Sack Dress 1740-50, London Museum". Comparing the pattern pieces I drafted with the scale of the original, I appear to have drafted it up to roughly the same scale as the original (which might not have been a good idea, but it makes it easier to communicate the size). Because the style of gown doesn't close completely in front, the potential waist measurement is variable, looks like 32-34"; similarly it looks like it could be a 40-42" bust. I'm 5'4" and the height is just about right at the front skirt, so it wouldn't really work for anyone taller. (The back has a slight train.) I offer no warranty that the fabrics involved are precisely historically accurate for the style of dress. The choice was an esthetic one at a time when I was less knowledgeable (and I'm still vastly ignorant about this time period, so I won't offer any opinion now either). The sewing done on it so far is passable but not professional. The gown is assembled but not hemmed and the eyelets in the back lining haven't been done yet, so if you wanted to unpick the seams and start over, it wouldn't be impossible. It needs more boning than I've currently put into it. The lining is a pale yellow slightly glazed cotton. Accompanying items: - the remaining "cabbage" from the main fabric - 1 1/2 spools of matching thread - 5 1/2 yards (45") slightly glossy medium-weight cotton twill in the same color as the main fabric (essentially: the same as the main fabric but without the woven designs), intended for the underskirt and stomacher, but never cut - a card of ca. 20-30 yards of pale yellow machine lace edging (2" wide), no particular use intended, but it matched the color scheme and I was waiting for inspiration - a piece of much nicer ecru machine lace, 24" high by 60" wide, with a wide border design along the bottom edge; I'd meant to look into whether this style of dress might have had a lace flounce on the underskirt - 5 yards of 1/2" wide green ... um ... not sure what the technical term would be, "trim", the sort of thing you might use in upholstery; the color matched the main fabric, and it looked like it might be appropriate to use somewhere Also available if desired: my scaled-up pattern, done on newsprint (which confirms that I started this project in June 1983). The fabric is all in good condition and has been stored out of the light. Slightly rumpled and creased, but no fading. There are a few slight stains along the bottom edge (which may end up being removed when hemming anyway) from an incident involving a leaky roof and a damp carpet in the closet. I will cheerfully pack this all up and ship it to the person who convinces me that they will lovingly finish it and wear it and send me pictures of them doing so. (I.e., this offer is _not_ "first come, first served".) If you live in the US, I'll even spring for the UPS costs -- if you live out of the US, then we'll have to negotiate. If you're reasonably local to the San Francisco Bay Area and want to take a look first, that's possible. PLEASE: Send expressions of interest directly to me, not to the list. Not that there aren't any number of list-appropriate threads that could take off from the topic .... Heather heather.jones@earthlink.net -- **** Heather Rose Jones heather.jones@earthlink.net **** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 3 14:45:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i93IixVV017316 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 14:45:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i93IiV3x010608 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 3 Oct 2004 12:44:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i93IhJvg075222; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 12:43:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i93IhGvg075170 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 12:43:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.7.) id 6.ac.637a934b (4312) for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 14:43:09 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 14:43:09 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] ca. 1750 sack dress -- Unfinished Project Free to Good Home To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5031 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 10/3/2004 2:03:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, heather.jones@earthlink.net writes: PLEASE: Send expressions of interest directly to me, not to the list. Not that there aren't any number of list-appropriate threads that could take off from the topic .... Heather I appreciate that you want replies off-list, but would you please let the whole list know when you make a disposition? You've piqued my (and I'm sure many others') curiosity! Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 3 14:57:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i93IvIR6017372 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 14:57:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i93Iuj3x011365 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 3 Oct 2004 12:56:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i93ItXvg080812; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 12:55:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i93ItTvg080763 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 12:55:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1CEBW2-0003Jx-8T for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 03 Oct 2004 18:55:26 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 19:54:10 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 791 References: <416023A1.70608@lavoltapress.com> In-Reply-To: <416023A1.70608@lavoltapress.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This was actually what made me ask, because I remember always having to write "L" and "R" on my ballet shoes, from when I was really small, so that they were always worn on the same foot to get a good shape. You also made me go and check my old pointe shoes (I keep them for sentimental reasons!) - they are straight lasted as well. Jean Lavolta Press wrote >It depends on how soft the shoes are. Modern ballet slippers (I'm not >talking about hard toe shoes) are not made with rights/lefts. The >leather is very soft and the shoes are adjusted with a drawstring. >It's a primitive shoe design. If you wear a ballet slipper on the same >foot time after time it will eventually mold itself to that foot, but >the shoe is so soft such molding makes little difference. > >I forget if the "ghilles" made for Scottish dance have rights/lefts, >but as they are a similar soft shoe adjusted with lacings, they may not. > >Fran >Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming >Two new books! >http://www.lavoltapress.com > > >>> >> How would you ever get shoes worn in if you did this? Wouldn't they >>just be permanently uncomfortable, never actually moulding to your feet? >> >> Jean >> >> >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 3 15:30:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i93JTxPW017479 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 15:30:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i93JTU3x013417 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 3 Oct 2004 13:29:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i93JSIvg096401; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 13:28:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i93JSFvg096368 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 13:28:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21154 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 14:36:26 -0500 Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 14:36:24 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] ca. 1750 sack dress -- Unfinished Project Free to Good Home In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sun, 3 Oct 2004, Heather Rose Jones wrote: > PLEASE: Send expressions of interest directly to me, not to the list. > Not that there aren't any number of list-appropriate threads that > could take off from the topic .... But do tell us who "wins" -- and maybe insist that they also make a picture of the final result to the list, too? I'd love to see how this turns out. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 3 18:33:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i93MXF0n018209 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 18:33:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i93MWa3x025174 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 3 Oct 2004 16:32:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i93MWQvg085018; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 16:32:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net (starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.227]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i93MWMvg084980 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 16:32:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from dialup-4.152.117.94.dial1.atlanta1.level3.net ([4.152.117.94] helo=MOM) by starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CEEtx-0004jd-Iw for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 03 Oct 2004 15:32:22 -0700 Message-ID: <006f01c4a998$e59ab120$0a3bfea9@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000f01c4a919$f9eb9920$0a3bfea9@MOM> <200410032239.14487.geard@verso.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] What is this used for Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 18:32:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 140fedcc4d524cc6b18d26c2e407058b94f5150ab1c16ac08f4233f47979de261384d0fbb96ad227e41c9020da2aa2df350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.152.117.94 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i93MXF0n018209 Status: RO Thank you Julian and Jennifer for the quick answer. Another one that I don't know is cerate. I know it is an ointment but do not know what it was used for. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Online Reference Library, AND Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumegallery.com/research.htm www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 3 18:55:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i93Mt4Dl018261 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 18:55:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i93MsW3x026804 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 3 Oct 2004 16:54:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i93MsVvg095065; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 16:54:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from indirectobject.com (066-241-084-045.bus.ashlandfiber.net [66.241.84.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i93MsTvg095034 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 16:54:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rreed@indirectobject.com) Message-Id: <200410032254.i93MsTvg095034@net.indra.com> Received: from synergy ([192.168.1.1]) by indirectobject.com (WWW [192.168.1.200]) (MDaemon.PRO.v6.8.5.R) with ESMTP id 25-md50000000014.tmp for ; Sun, 03 Oct 2004 15:56:10 -0700 From: To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] ca. 1750 sack dress -- Unfinished Project Free to Good Home Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 15:53:41 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AcSpc+1AZpvtTgrTR5SOkjSxmQUBVAAJ6f0Q X-Spam-Processed: WWW, Sun, 03 Oct 2004 15:56:10 -0700 (not processed: message from valid local sender) X-MDRemoteIP: 192.168.1.1 X-Return-Path: rreed@indirectobject.com X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I wonder if Bjarne would have time or interest...? Do let us know who adopts the project! >So I would like to offer up this project and all the >accompanying materials FREE to someone who: > >1) Will finish it. >2) Will wear it (or finish it for someone else who will wear it). >3) Will send me pictures. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 3 18:57:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i93MvvFs018271 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 18:57:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i93MvI3x027032 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 3 Oct 2004 16:57:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i93MvIvg096379; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 16:57:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-04.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-04.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i93MvGvg096364 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 16:57:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sherylnd@kc.rr.com) Received: from oemcomputer.kc.rr.com (CPE-65-30-107-115.kc.rr.com [65.30.107.115]) by ms-smtp-04.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.12.8p1/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i93MoppU013751 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 17:51:01 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20041003180028.009fd4b0@pop-server.kc.rr.com> X-Sender: sherylnd@pop-server.kc.rr.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 18:10:08 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Sheryl Nance-Durst Subject: Re: [h-cost] clarification on beaded trim In-Reply-To: <36.6366ef3a.2e8c8151@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What color are you looking for? If white, the bridal section is your best bet. If you're using another color, you might try searching for "sari trim". Sellers on ebay often sell wide beaded trims in various colors meant to decorate the edges of saris. Sheryl Nance-Durst At 05:21 PM 9/29/04 -0400, you wrote: >The pattern in question (Butterick 4093, Misses tunic, gown and girdle, >C1914) calls for 8.5 yards of 1.75" wide beaded ribbon. It is not >a fringe, but >rather an embroidered, beaded ribbon that lays flat. I have searched high >and low for something like what is on the pattern cover, with >zero luck. I am >not sure of what I will use as a substitute. Yeah, I could bead plain >ribbon >to go on the edge of the tunic, but somehow it is not exactly a high >priority right now. > >It really aggravates me when a pattern (and we are not talking Vogue here >either) calls for something that is nowhere to be found. > >~Kimberley >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 3 19:03:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i93N3bdA018297 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 19:03:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i93N373x027397 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 3 Oct 2004 17:03:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i93N35vg099211; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 17:03:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i93N33vg099180 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 17:03:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sherylnd@kc.rr.com) Received: from oemcomputer.kc.rr.com (CPE-65-30-107-115.kc.rr.com [65.30.107.115]) by ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i93N2v9Y008302 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 18:03:00 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20041003181335.009fd130@pop-server.kc.rr.com> X-Sender: sherylnd@pop-server.kc.rr.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 18:16:09 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Sheryl Nance-Durst Subject: Re: [h-cost] What is this used for In-Reply-To: <006f01c4a998$e59ab120$0a3bfea9@MOM> References: <000f01c4a919$f9eb9920$0a3bfea9@MOM> <200410032239.14487.geard@verso.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO cerate - a hard medicated paste made of lard or oil mixed with wax or resin; ointment, salve, unguent, balm, unction - semisolid preparation (usually containing a medicine) applied externally as a remedy or for soothing an irritation (from thefreedictionary.com) Sheryl Nance-Durst At 06:32 PM 10/3/04 -0400, you wrote: >Thank you Julian and Jennifer for the quick answer. Another one that I >don't know is cerate. I know it is an ointment but do not know what it >was used for. > >Penny E. Ladnier >Owner, The Costume Gallery & Online Reference Library, AND Costume Classroom >www.costumegallery.com >www.costumegallery.com/research.htm >www.costumeclassroom.com >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 3 20:00:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9400fwj018536 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 20:00:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i93Nuq5H000693 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 3 Oct 2004 17:59:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i93NVivg012553; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 17:31:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail03.powweb.com (mail03.powweb.com [66.152.97.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i93NVgvg012484 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 17:31:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from megan@benchite.com) Received: from megan2 (pcp06952326pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net [69.140.8.214]) by mail03.powweb.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B06A15D3B for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 16:31:34 -0700 (PDT) From: "Megan M." To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] ca. 1750 sack dress -- Unfinished Project Free to Good Home Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 19:31:41 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Thread-Index: AcSpc0SSVoUDQKY2TA2TK0R1W1e5MwALbYXA Message-Id: <20041003233134.0B06A15D3B@mail03.powweb.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was wondering if there was a picture of the fabric or dress so far anywhere. It is a little small for me at the moment (have to lose about 20# for it to fit, and I also have no place to wear it so I guess it is not for me) but I'm still interested in seeing it. -Megan -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Heather Rose Jones Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 2:00 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] ca. 1750 sack dress -- Unfinished Project Free to Good Home (NOTE: Please send "dibs!" messages directly to me -- not to the list.) First a little story ... Once upon a time, a little over 20 years ago, I was fresh out of college and job-hunting, and while I was suspended in that state of no income, I wandered into a fabric store (mistake, of course) and saw this beautiful bolt of fabric. It was a 100% cotton damask, in a sort of mossy pea-green, with 2"-wide stripes and sprigs of lily-of-the-valley (all done as a damask weave effect -- solid color). I fell in love with the fabric and felt that it desperately wanted to be a mid/late 18th century gown ... never mind the fact that I had and have absolutely no excuses to wear 18th century gowns. But I was in love (with the fabric) so logic went out the window, and I told myself that if the fabric was still there in the store when I got a job, I'd buy it to celebrate. Well, it was; and I did. And in my usual can't-wait-to-get-started fashion, I started putting the gown together before I'd done anything sensible like making underpinnings. So I got to the point where I couldn't go any further without coming up with a corset and panniers and I set it aside until I'd gotten around to doing that part. Twenty years pass. Well, not only did I never get around to making the underpinnings (which may have had something to do with never having had an excuse/deadline for finishing the dress), but there's a reasonably good chance I'll never be the same size and shape I was when I drafted the dress. And being in the middle of completely re-organizing my sewing space, I decided it was time to find a good home for what is still one of my most gorgeous pieces of fabric I ever bought. So I would like to offer up this project and all the accompanying materials FREE to someone who: 1) Will finish it. 2) Will wear it (or finish it for someone else who will wear it). 3) Will send me pictures. Here are some specifics: I took the pattern from Norah Waugh's "The Cut of Women's Clothes 1600-1930" from Diagram XV "Sack Dress 1740-50, London Museum". Comparing the pattern pieces I drafted with the scale of the original, I appear to have drafted it up to roughly the same scale as the original (which might not have been a good idea, but it makes it easier to communicate the size). Because the style of gown doesn't close completely in front, the potential waist measurement is variable, looks like 32-34"; similarly it looks like it could be a 40-42" bust. I'm 5'4" and the height is just about right at the front skirt, so it wouldn't really work for anyone taller. (The back has a slight train.) I offer no warranty that the fabrics involved are precisely historically accurate for the style of dress. The choice was an esthetic one at a time when I was less knowledgeable (and I'm still vastly ignorant about this time period, so I won't offer any opinion now either). The sewing done on it so far is passable but not professional. The gown is assembled but not hemmed and the eyelets in the back lining haven't been done yet, so if you wanted to unpick the seams and start over, it wouldn't be impossible. It needs more boning than I've currently put into it. The lining is a pale yellow slightly glazed cotton. Accompanying items: - the remaining "cabbage" from the main fabric - 1 1/2 spools of matching thread - 5 1/2 yards (45") slightly glossy medium-weight cotton twill in the same color as the main fabric (essentially: the same as the main fabric but without the woven designs), intended for the underskirt and stomacher, but never cut - a card of ca. 20-30 yards of pale yellow machine lace edging (2" wide), no particular use intended, but it matched the color scheme and I was waiting for inspiration - a piece of much nicer ecru machine lace, 24" high by 60" wide, with a wide border design along the bottom edge; I'd meant to look into whether this style of dress might have had a lace flounce on the underskirt - 5 yards of 1/2" wide green ... um ... not sure what the technical term would be, "trim", the sort of thing you might use in upholstery; the color matched the main fabric, and it looked like it might be appropriate to use somewhere Also available if desired: my scaled-up pattern, done on newsprint (which confirms that I started this project in June 1983). The fabric is all in good condition and has been stored out of the light. Slightly rumpled and creased, but no fading. There are a few slight stains along the bottom edge (which may end up being removed when hemming anyway) from an incident involving a leaky roof and a damp carpet in the closet. I will cheerfully pack this all up and ship it to the person who convinces me that they will lovingly finish it and wear it and send me pictures of them doing so. (I.e., this offer is _not_ "first come, first served".) If you live in the US, I'll even spring for the UPS costs -- if you live out of the US, then we'll have to negotiate. If you're reasonably local to the San Francisco Bay Area and want to take a look first, that's possible. PLEASE: Send expressions of interest directly to me, not to the list. Not that there aren't any number of list-appropriate threads that could take off from the topic .... Heather heather.jones@earthlink.net -- **** Heather Rose Jones heather.jones@earthlink.net **** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 3 22:06:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9426wxh018906 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 22:06:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9426O3x009587 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 3 Oct 2004 20:06:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9425xvg090051; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 20:06:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f13.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.63]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9425lvg089933 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 20:05:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 19:04:06 -0700 Received: from 129.244.96.22 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 04 Oct 2004 02:03:34 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.96.22] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 21:03:34 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Oct 2004 02:04:06.0177 (UTC) FILETIME=[6DA33110:01C4A9B6] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Rights/Lefts X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think I've missed some of these messages. Medieval shoes are virtually all rights and lefts, made on right and left shaped lasts. When unturned shoes start coming in in the late 15th century, straight lasts come in with the wide toed shoes. The assumption is that it was cheaper to buy one new last, than to buy two. Cheapy turned shoes for servants, sailors and dancing may have still been made on paired lasts at this time. When separate, raised heels start showing up around 1600, right and left lasts just gradually fade away until it is forgotten that they were ever the norm. When they start returning in the early 19th century paired lasts took a few years to catch on, and pretty much by the middle of the century they were really the norm (Army specifications for the Civil War, for example, are supposed to have been for shoes made on paired lasts - I said "said to have been" since this isn't really my area of research). As Ron mentioned, Al Saguto at CW has been trying hard to stamp the particular myth of switching shoes back and forth out. That is not to say that it *never* happened (the sparse documentation suggests it may have in some cases), but it certainly wasn't the norm. Marc _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! hthttp://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 3 23:35:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i943ZTmY019245 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 23:35:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i943Yr3x015552 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 3 Oct 2004 21:34:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i943Yhvg036705; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 21:34:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i943Ygvg036678 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 21:34:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F6CC2CC6C for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 22:34:40 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t2p317.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.217.63]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 6F351D3F3 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 22:34:39 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Alteryears Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 22:35:00 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <724DC18E.7726DA97.0BD9917F@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Have you tried their website? De -----Original Message----- Does anyone know how to get ahold of Alteryears? -- Kit If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - Kenneth Cole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 4 00:20:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i944KDgt019639 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 00:20:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i944Jk3x018903 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 3 Oct 2004 22:19:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i944Jivg059944; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 22:19:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i944Jgvg059922 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 22:19:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A1BE118D7 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 21:19:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041003210530.01fdfab8@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 21:15:15 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silk In-Reply-To: <200410020656.i926up9w075767@net.indra.com> References: <200410020206.20381.cathy@thyrsus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:56 PM 10/1/2004 -0700, you wrote: >I was curious to find out what would be the best type of silk to line a >linen or velvet bodice or doublet? What is most comfortable and durable? >Would you suggest using silk as a lining fabric? What's the popular >opinion? > >Thanks, >Becky Hi Becky, I used linen for the body linings of the recent velvet doublets that I have made for my husband. The linen is white so that it doesn't bleed color onto the white linen shirts I made. I made sure to prewash everything, including the linens twice, for maximum shrinkage before creation. I made these for very hot faires, and they have to deal with the heat and sweat. My husband, while hot this weekend in his velvet doublet with base, he was doing better than he did before, as the linen helped out better than other lining materials I have tried (which has been cotton - ick). The historical garments I read up on, mainly from Janet Arnold's books, are lined in linen, often with a heavy linen interlining for body/stiffening, so I did the same with my husband's. I however did use silk for the sleeves, so they slip on and off easily. I used silk shantung, which was a pretty tight weave and rather strong, or strong so far. I am not sure how long shantung will last however, so I do suggest a strong weave silk, like twill or maybe even even weave broadcloth. The silk linings on the sleeves were in crimson red, because he is a nobleman, and the sleeves are meant to be seen as the front seam is open with some sort of closures still to be determined. Unfortunately, while the sleeves are done, the lacing holes were not finished, so my husband didn't get to wear them this weekend. I will be posting a link to my husband's latest outfits (and dress diaries) later this week, once the film from this past weekend's faire has been developed. hth, Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 4 05:00:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9490pVr016082 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 05:00:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9490E3x014897 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Oct 2004 03:00:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94903vg086660; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 03:00:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.254.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94900vg086567 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 03:00:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 09:59:50 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: RE: [h-cost] Straight-lasted shoes. To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3B2E@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Straight-lasted shoes. Thread-Index: AcSpc7XDP51oLo+jQ1SmHNGAvCg2XQAfDrZg content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.20 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > I remember visiting the shoemaker's shop at Colonial Williamsburg > > in, hmm, the mid-1970s, and hearing there that "in the old days" > > shoes were straight, not right-left. The advantage to this, they said, > > was not > > only that they were easier to make, but that you could get more wear > > from the shoes by alternating which feet you wore them on, on a daily > > basis. > > > How would you ever get shoes worn in if you did this? Wouldn't they > just be permanently uncomfortable, never actually moulding to > your feet? Hello Jean, My straight lasted 17th century shoes go on different feet each time I wear them - they are perfectly comfoprtable but disconcerting to look down at - they *always* look as if they are on the wrong feet (to the wearer. It doesn't appear to look that way to anyone else) I have to resist the urge to take them off and swap them to the opposite feet - because it's pointless, they look just as "wrong" that way 'round too... Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 4 09:01:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i94D1hVi020450 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 09:01:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94D1A3x028085 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Oct 2004 07:01:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94D0xvg090133; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 07:00:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94D0uvg089995 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 07:00:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-8.13) id A97F3B50060; Mon, 04 Oct 2004 09:00:47 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.102 ([209.131.81.102] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 4 Oct 04 13:00:41 -0000 Message-ID: <001301c4aa13$27e2ebe0$665183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000f01c4a94b$2e8fbdb0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] stomacher with birdcoupple Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 09:07:51 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have been studying stomachers in the Kyoto volume for inspiration. The photos you have to work from are soo much lighter! And as a "heart cover", the wooing birds in the center is dear. Kathleen---- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 9:16 AM Subject: [h-cost] stomacher with birdcoupple > Hi, > For Alexias new dress i am going to make this winter season, i have made a > design for the stomacher. Alexia wanted me to incooperate a little annimal, > and i chose a birdcoupple sitting in the middle. > I would like to invite you to se it. > Here: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/helmspatterns.htm > It is the second stomacher design. > > Bjarne > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 4 09:43:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i94DhrTi020672 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 09:43:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94DhM3x001092 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Oct 2004 07:43:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94DhIvg012085; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 07:43:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94DhFvg011999 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 07:43:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 04 Oct 2004 08:43:08 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 08:42:59 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Costume Humor X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ok, I had to share this with an audience that could appreciate it. We are in the middle our local rennfaire at which my husband is a member of a stage troupe. His character is an ex-mercinary turned roving actor (Capitano in Commedia del Arte). I made his costumes (2 doublets w/ matching removable sleeves) entirely from leftover scraps, ie; cabbage, that other costuming friends had given me over the years. One is even a patchwork of various brocades. On Sunday morning as we were driving out to site it struck me; He was my Cabbage Patch kid :) :) :) ! For some reason he didn't think it was quite as funny as I did........ Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 4 10:52:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i94EqQ7g020973 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 10:52:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94Epk3x007546 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Oct 2004 08:51:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94Epgvg056412; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 08:51:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f35.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94EpJvg056032 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 08:51:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 07:45:08 -0700 Received: from 129.244.6.162 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 04 Oct 2004 14:44:57 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.162] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 09:44:57 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Oct 2004 14:45:08.0936 (UTC) FILETIME=[BEC34480:01C4AA20] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Straight-lasted shoes. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: Teddy >>How would you ever get shoes worn in if you did this? Wouldn't they >>just be permanently uncomfortable, never actually moulding to >>your feet? >My straight lasted 17th century shoes go on different feet each time I >wear them - they are perfectly comfoprtable but disconcerting to look >down at - they *always* look as if they are on the wrong feet (to the >wearer. It doesn't appear to look that way to anyone else) >I have to resist the urge to take them off and swap them to the opposite >feet - because it's pointless, they look just as "wrong" that way 'round >too... As a rule, if you wear a particular straight lasted shoe on one foot exclusively, it will shape itself to that foot, with wrinkle patterns and so on. If you switch which foot you wear it on, you will develip wringkle patterns in the leather from both feet. Personally the only time I switch feet is in case of emergency - for example, recently at an SCA thing one of my much later period shoes blew out some hobnails under the big toe of the right foot (I have no idea how) - and the sole sagged, dragging the upper doen onto the big toe (and forming a new permanent crease there. By the end of Saturday morning, I had developed a huge blister under the big toe, and wound up swapping shoes just to survive the rest of the day - something I couldn't have done with paired last shoes. Marc _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfeeŽ Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 4 12:36:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i94GabXj021585 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 12:36:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94GZX3x020226 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Oct 2004 10:35:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94GZIvg053693; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 10:35:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web50604.mail.yahoo.com (web50604.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i94GZGvg053614 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 10:35:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Message-ID: <20041004163511.96916.qmail@web50604.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.49.146.76] by web50604.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 04 Oct 2004 12:35:11 EDT Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 12:35:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Kathy Page To: Historical Costume List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 1500/1600 Lace Patterns X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I gave in and bought lace making supplies for both bobbin and netted filet lace. Now I need patterns to work from - anyone have suggestions on books to find ca. 1500-1600 patterns? Thanks, Kathy ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 4 13:00:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i94H0c0N021712 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 13:00:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94Gxp3x022777 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Oct 2004 10:59:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94Gxivg078579; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 10:59:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from trickle.cc.mcgill.ca (trickle.CC.McGill.CA [132.206.27.51]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94Gxcvg078480 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 10:59:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanna.hobbins@mail.mcgill.ca) Received: from mailscan4.cc.mcgill.ca (mailscan4.CC.McGill.CA [132.216.77.251]) by trickle.cc.mcgill.ca (8.12.11/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i94GxbdA001078 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 12:59:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LIBRARY2162 (GIS131.Library.McGill.CA [132.216.28.131]) by mailscan4.cc.mcgill.ca (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i94Gueqp006266 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 12:56:40 -0400 From: "Joanna Hobbins" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] 1500/1600 Lace Patterns Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 12:59:27 -0400 Message-ID: <0EC215885A2D74459D732218EA1CF2360182B754@EXCHANGEVS3.campus.mcgill.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <0EC215885A2D74459D732218EA1CF236017B2190@EXCHANGEVS3.campus.mcgill.ca> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You should check out the Digital Archive of Documents on Weaving, Textiles, Lace, and Related Topics. http://www.cs.arizona.edu/patterns/weaving/index.html They have thousands of OOP books, pamphlets, articles on pretty much everything related to textiles available as PDF files. I would suggest using their topic lists first. http://www.cs.arizona.edu/patterns/weaving/topic_lace.html Cheers, Joanna -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Kathy Page Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 12:35 PM To: Historical Costume List Subject: [h-cost] 1500/1600 Lace Patterns I gave in and bought lace making supplies for both bobbin and netted filet lace. Now I need patterns to work from - anyone have suggestions on books to find ca. 1500-1600 patterns? Thanks, Kathy ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 4 13:59:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i94HxRnG022033 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 13:59:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94Hv45h000918 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Oct 2004 11:58:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94HW6vg005160; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 11:32:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web13523.mail.yahoo.com (web13523.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.161]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i94HVqvg004973 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 11:31:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pioneercynthia@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20041004173148.40376.qmail@web13523.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [149.164.58.109] by web13523.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 04 Oct 2004 10:31:48 PDT Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 10:31:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Ms Cynthia Schrage To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200410031803.i93I3Mvi057018@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Bird Couple Stomacher X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne, as usual, an adorable design. I love birds. Where did you get the specific bird design, or is it your own. I don't recognize the type of birds in the picture, so I was wondering if it's some artist's conception of a type of bird, or some real bird that's been stylized (is that a word?) for this embroidery. Thanks for the continued inspiration. Cynthia __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 4 14:17:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i94IHDHN022116 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 14:17:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94IGU3x003225 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Oct 2004 12:16:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94IGQvg049524; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 12:16:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out010.verizon.net (out010pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94IGNvg049399 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 12:16:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kathysmassmail@verizon.net) Received: from outgoing.verizon.net ([192.168.1.2]) by out010.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20041004181622.JKLV23744.out010.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 13:16:22 -0500 X-Mailer: Openwave WebEngine, version 2.8.12 (webedge20-101-197-20030912) From: To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 13:16:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out010.verizon.net from [192.168.1.2] at Mon, 4 Oct 2004 13:16:22 -0500 Message-Id: <20041004181622.JKLV23744.out010.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Gothic Fitted Dress and lack of uniboob X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello all, I have a question. Has anyone out there ever done a fitting on someone who doesn't have enough, um, chest to achieve the uniboob look? I tried fitting one on myself. It ended up being a cross between the straight front and curved front because the initial fitting was done with a straight front and then I just _couldn't_ get it to look right so I did the front seam by myself to achieve the right-ish look. However, here's my question. No matter WHAT I did, I could not get my breasts up and together without making the pull on my back uncomfortable. I ended up just pushing the mass (in Robin's terms) up and calling it good. I wear a 42A, so I think the relative broadness of my rib cage vs. the size made it difficult to acheive the right look. So, was there someplace I should be compressing harder? What have other people done in those circumstances? Or am I just not the right "Gothic super-model" type? --Kathy K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 4 14:29:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i94ITIiF022128 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 14:29:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94ISK3x004534 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Oct 2004 12:28:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94ISFvg062417; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 12:28:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94IS9vg062298 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 12:28:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gia_gavino@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.119 ([204.127.197.119]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <2004100418280401300c1qige>; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 18:28:04 +0000 Received: from [128.95.163.199] by 204.127.197.119; Mon, 04 Oct 2004 18:27:59 +0000 From: gia_gavino@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gothic Fitted Dress and lack of uniboob Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 18:27:59 +0000 Message-Id: <100420041827.26891.4161962F000245C10000690B2200761438010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Sep 14 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: Z2lhX2dhdmlub0Bjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings! What an great question! I was watching the BBC "what not to wear" show one day and they had a gal on with virtually no tits whatsoever! So, what they had were what looked like silicone inserts that she would put into her bras. Maybe someone on the list can remember what the things were actually called or perhaps the BBC webpage might have information about that particular episode on their web page. But it really gave her a bosum, and maybe this could help you get the look you are aiming for? Good luck! -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > Hello all, > > I have a question. Has anyone out there ever done a fitting on someone who > doesn't have enough, um, chest to achieve the uniboob look? I tried fitting one > on myself. It ended up being a cross between the straight front and curved front > because the initial fitting was done with a straight front and then I just > _couldn't_ get it to look right so I did the front seam by myself to achieve the > right-ish look. > > However, here's my question. No matter WHAT I did, I could not get my breasts up > and together without making the pull on my back uncomfortable. I ended up just > pushing the mass (in Robin's terms) up and calling it good. I wear a 42A, so I > think the relative broadness of my rib cage vs. the size made it difficult to > acheive the right look. > > So, was there someplace I should be compressing harder? What have other people > done in those circumstances? Or am I just not the right "Gothic super-model" > type? > --Kathy K. > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 4 14:37:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i94Ibe62022150 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 14:37:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94Iah3x005369 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Oct 2004 12:36:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94Iafvg069132; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 12:36:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94IaZvg068930 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 12:36:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fcc.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.204]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 4BAE25EE072 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 20:36:22 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001201c4aa41$0e4f9830$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20041004163511.96916.qmail@web50604.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1500/1600 Lace Patterns Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 20:36:25 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Kathy, If you would like, i have some bobbin lace patterns reconstrukted from old laces at a royal burrial in Roskilde Cathedral. The find was from 1615ies, but the laces was sitting on old garments wich was older. I can email them if you want me to. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathy Page" To: "Historical Costume List" Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 6:35 PM Subject: [h-cost] 1500/1600 Lace Patterns > I gave in and bought lace making supplies for both > bobbin and netted filet lace. Now I need patterns to > work from - anyone have suggestions on books to find > ca. 1500-1600 patterns? > > Thanks, > > Kathy > > ______________________________________________________________________ > Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 4 14:51:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i94IpT6P022212 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 14:51:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94Ioh3x006730 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Oct 2004 12:50:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94Iobvg086787; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 12:50:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94IoTvg086524 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 12:50:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA31453 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 13:58:38 -0500 Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 13:58:37 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gothic Fitted Dress and lack of uniboob In-Reply-To: <20041004181622.JKLV23744.out010.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 4 Oct 2004 kathysmassmail@verizon.net wrote: > I have a question. Has anyone out there ever done a fitting on > someone who doesn't have enough, um, chest to achieve the uniboob > look? I tried fitting one on myself. It ended up being a cross > between the straight front and curved front because the initial > fitting was done with a straight front and then I just _couldn't_ get > it to look right so I did the front seam by myself to achieve the > right-ish look. > > However, here's my question. No matter WHAT I did, I could not get my > breasts up and together without making the pull on my back > uncomfortable. I ended up just pushing the mass (in Robin's terms) up > and calling it good. I wear a 42A, so I think the relative broadness > of my rib cage vs. the size made it difficult to acheive the right > look. The breasts don't have to be pushed together. If they're small, you'll see separation of the two resulting mounds. You see that in some period illustrations, too -- it's not a problem. "Up" is the operative word. You want the pressure on the underside of the bosom, which plumps up the top of the each breast. This is the same thing that the Wonderbra inserts do -- they shift the internal mass upwards. This gives even a small-built woman noticeable "mounds" and cleavage (and I've seen some very surprised women who have never had this before I fit them!). As for the front seam, I sometimes use a curve in the front to add projection for a woman who is small-busted. However, it's not a curve of the type Tasha uses. Mine is more like a parenthesis -- ( -- with the tightest part at the ribcage to define the high waist, and then sloping outward below to allow belly swell, which accentuates the in-and-out shape. The funnel-expansion at the top allows the breasts to move a bit more forward in front, and less to the sides. (This is NOT desirable in a larger-busted woman. When I last tried a curved front on myself, I saw my breasts drop to about my knees...) Note that the curve does not then bow back in at the neck -- it just goes out. This is for a neckline that's cut in a (visually) rather low scoop. For a higher-necked dress (say, 1350-1380) you do want a more flattened, columnar look and less projection. --Robin > > So, was there someplace I should be compressing harder? What have other people done in those circumstances? Or am I just not the right "Gothic super-model" type? > --Kathy K. > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ========================================================== Robin Netherton // Editor at Large robin@nightowl.net voice: (314) 439-1222 // fax: (314) 439-1333 Life is just a bowl of queries. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 4 14:56:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i94Iu2u3022234 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 14:56:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94ItB3x007299 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Oct 2004 12:55:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94Issvg096790; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 12:54:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94Ishvg096660 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 12:54:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fcc.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.204]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 42AB05EE0ED for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 20:54:39 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000701c4aa43$9f0fa570$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 20:54:47 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] OT self esteim X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I have a good idea for all of you. Go to this site: http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~geoffo/humour/flattery.html Type in your name and see what happens Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 4 14:58:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i94Iw7L0022242 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 14:58:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94IvI3x007529 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Oct 2004 12:57:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94IvGvg098795; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 12:57:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94Iuxvg098580 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 12:57:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fcc.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.204]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 24CD15EE05E for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 20:56:59 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001201c4aa43$f27ac780$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20041004173148.40376.qmail@web13523.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bird Couple Stomacher Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 20:57:07 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Cynthia, The birds are just imagination, but they reminds me a little of some birds who visits Denmark in the winter. They comes from the colder Norway and Sweden to eat all the berries on bushes. Their name is Silkehale, wich can be translated to silktails. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ms Cynthia Schrage" To: Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 7:31 PM Subject: [h-cost] Bird Couple Stomacher > Bjarne, > > as usual, an adorable design. I love birds. Where did > you get the specific bird design, or is it your own. I > don't recognize the type of birds in the picture, so I > was wondering if it's some artist's conception of a > type of bird, or some real bird that's been stylized > (is that a word?) for this embroidery. > > Thanks for the continued inspiration. > > Cynthia > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 4 15:29:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i94JTPt5022374 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 15:29:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94JSd3x011019 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Oct 2004 13:28:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94JSWvg024201; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 13:28:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hall.mail.mindspring.net (hall.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94JSRvg024115 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 13:28:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from sdn-ap-009masprip0271.dialsprint.net ([63.186.145.17]) by hall.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CEYVV-0002xk-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 04 Oct 2004 15:28:26 -0400 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 15:29:13 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1500/1600 Lace Patterns From: ruthanne baumgartner To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <001201c4aa41$0e4f9830$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Bjarne, I didn't ask, but I'd certainly be grateful if you e-mailed such patterns to me. I did bobbin lacemaking for several years awhile back and have thought about returning to it--this might be the inspiration I need! --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer on 10/4/04 2:36 PM, Bjarne og Leif Drews at drewscph@post12.tele.dk wrote: > Dear Kathy, > If you would like, i have some bobbin lace patterns reconstrukted from old > laces at a royal burrial in Roskilde Cathedral. The find was from 1615ies, > but the laces was sitting on old garments wich was older. > I can email them if you want me to. > > Bjarne > > > - _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 4 15:32:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i94JWjuD022392 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 15:32:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94JVi3x011300 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Oct 2004 13:31:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94JVdvg026953; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 13:31:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from incoming.SIGENETICS.com ([209.172.110.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94JVZvg026766 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 13:31:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sbuchler@silicongenetics.com) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: RE: [h-cost] ca. 1750 sack dress -- Unfinished Project Free to Good Home Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 12:30:04 -0700 Message-ID: <0D3431E0FD777844A4ED9507E4D698D90D2784@incoming.sigenetics.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 796 Thread-Index: AcSpc4+itTx4yeqYQKizQiiEtnwaXAA0q30w From: "Sunny Buchler" To: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i94JVZvg026766 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi! I should love to see the fabric and see if it inspires me :-) -- I live in Redwood City (and I expect you know my mother -- Teleri Tawel in the SCA? Pardon me if I've mixed your name up with someone else's'!) so we could probably work something out... I don't particularly have a place to wear it, but I do have the panniers and a hat for that period already (the accessories demand an outfit ;-) One of those "I'll have to make an outfit someday, I can't resist the accessories!"), and my current measurements are within the range you list - though I am an inch taller -- I can't remember, is the Sack dress in Waugh from one of the short periods (i.e. ankle lenght) or is it instep-length? Also your challenge would be a lovely excuse to make myself finish the project :-). I'm rambling, sorry :-) Thanks for considering me, -sunny > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 10:59:37 -0700 > From: Heather Rose Jones > Subject: [h-cost] ca. 1750 sack dress -- Unfinished Project Free to > Good Home > To: Historical Costume > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > > (NOTE: Please send "dibs!" messages directly to me -- not to > the list.) > > First a little story ... > > Once upon a time, a little over 20 years ago, I was fresh out of > college and job-hunting, and while I was suspended in that state of > no income, I wandered into a fabric store (mistake, of course) and > saw this beautiful bolt of fabric. It was a 100% cotton damask, in a > sort of mossy pea-green, with 2"-wide stripes and sprigs of > lily-of-the-valley (all done as a damask weave effect -- solid > color). I fell in love with the fabric and felt that it desperately > wanted to be a mid/late 18th century gown ... never mind the fact > that I had and have absolutely no excuses to wear 18th century gowns. > > But I was in love (with the fabric) so logic went out the window, and > I told myself that if the fabric was still there in the store when I > got a job, I'd buy it to celebrate. Well, it was; and I did. And in > my usual can't-wait-to-get-started fashion, I started putting the > gown together before I'd done anything sensible like making > underpinnings. So I got to the point where I couldn't go any further > without coming up with a corset and panniers and I set it aside until > I'd gotten around to doing that part. > > Twenty years pass. > > Well, not only did I never get around to making the underpinnings > (which may have had something to do with never having had an > excuse/deadline for finishing the dress), but there's a reasonably > good chance I'll never be the same size and shape I was when I > drafted the dress. And being in the middle of completely > re-organizing my sewing space, I decided it was time to find a good > home for what is still one of my most gorgeous pieces of fabric I > ever bought. So I would like to offer up this project and all the > accompanying materials FREE to someone who: > > 1) Will finish it. > 2) Will wear it (or finish it for someone else who will wear it). > 3) Will send me pictures. > > Here are some specifics: > > I took the pattern from Norah Waugh's "The Cut of Women's Clothes > 1600-1930" from Diagram XV "Sack Dress 1740-50, London Museum". > Comparing the pattern pieces I drafted with the scale of the > original, I appear to have drafted it up to roughly the same scale as > the original (which might not have been a good idea, but it makes it > easier to communicate the size). Because the style of gown doesn't > close completely in front, the potential waist measurement is > variable, looks like 32-34"; similarly it looks like it could be a > 40-42" bust. I'm 5'4" and the height is just about right at the > front skirt, so it wouldn't really work for anyone taller. (The back > has a slight train.) > > I offer no warranty that the fabrics involved are precisely > historically accurate for the style of dress. The choice was an > esthetic one at a time when I was less knowledgeable (and I'm still > vastly ignorant about this time period, so I won't offer any opinion > now either). > > The sewing done on it so far is passable but not professional. The > gown is assembled but not hemmed and the eyelets in the back lining > haven't been done yet, so if you wanted to unpick the seams and start > over, it wouldn't be impossible. It needs more boning than I've > currently put into it. The lining is a pale yellow slightly glazed > cotton. > > Accompanying items: > > - the remaining "cabbage" from the main fabric > > - 1 1/2 spools of matching thread > > - 5 1/2 yards (45") slightly glossy medium-weight cotton twill in the > same color as the main fabric (essentially: the same as the main > fabric but without the woven designs), intended for the underskirt > and stomacher, but never cut > > - a card of ca. 20-30 yards of pale yellow machine lace edging (2" > wide), no particular use intended, but it matched the color scheme > and I was waiting for inspiration > > - a piece of much nicer ecru machine lace, 24" high by 60" wide, with > a wide border design along the bottom edge; I'd meant to look into > whether this style of dress might have had a lace flounce on the > underskirt > > - 5 yards of 1/2" wide green ... um ... not sure what the technical > term would be, "trim", the sort of thing you might use in upholstery; > the color matched the main fabric, and it looked like it might be > appropriate to use somewhere > > Also available if desired: my scaled-up pattern, done on newsprint > (which confirms that I started this project in June 1983). > > The fabric is all in good condition and has been stored out of the > light. Slightly rumpled and creased, but no fading. There are a few > slight stains along the bottom edge (which may end up being removed > when hemming anyway) from an incident involving a leaky roof and a > damp carpet in the closet. > > I will cheerfully pack this all up and ship it to the person who > convinces me that they will lovingly finish it and wear it and send > me pictures of them doing so. (I.e., this offer is _not_ "first > come, first served".) If you live in the US, I'll even spring for > the UPS costs -- if you live out of the US, then we'll have to > negotiate. If you're reasonably local to the San Francisco Bay Area > and want to take a look first, that's possible. > > PLEASE: Send expressions of interest directly to me, not to the list. > Not that there aren't any number of list-appropriate threads that > could take off from the topic .... > > Heather > heather.jones@earthlink.net > -- > **** > Heather Rose Jones > heather.jones@earthlink.net > **** > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > End of h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 796 > ***************************************** > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 4 15:39:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i94JdAEn022404 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 15:39:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94JcG3x011942 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Oct 2004 13:38:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94Jc4vg031971; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 13:38:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from incoming.SIGENETICS.com ([209.172.110.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94Jbjvg031549 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 13:37:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sbuchler@silicongenetics.com) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: RE: [h-cost] ca. 1750 sack dress -- Unfinished Project Free to Good Home Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 12:37:40 -0700 Message-ID: <0D3431E0FD777844A4ED9507E4D698D9BDF650@incoming.sigenetics.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 796 Thread-Index: AcSpc4+itTx4yeqYQKizQiiEtnwaXAA0q30wAADQuMA= From: "Sunny Buchler" To: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i94Jbjvg031549 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry for my last e-mail. I thought I'd changed the "To" line before I sent it, but I hadn't. Mea Culpa! -sunny _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 4 16:50:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i94KookK022675 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 16:50:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94Kno3x020596 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Oct 2004 14:49:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94Knk6Q091772; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 14:49:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94Knh6Q091515 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 14:49:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (kf-ijss-cb01-0309.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.81.54]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13873BF832 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 22:49:27 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4161B75B.1090701@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 22:49:31 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT self esteim References: <000701c4aa43$9f0fa570$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <000701c4aa43$9f0fa570$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO :-) :-) :-) I really needed that! :-) Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >Hi, >I have a good idea for all of you. Go to this site: >http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~geoffo/humour/flattery.html >Type in your name and see what happens > >Bjarne > > > > > >Leif og Bjarne Drews >www.my-drewscostumes.dk > >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 4 17:16:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i94LG5cG022825 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:16:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94LFG3x023330 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Oct 2004 15:15:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94LFF6Q012749; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 15:15:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out002.verizon.net (out002pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.141]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94LFD6Q012716 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 15:15:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kathysmassmail@verizon.net) Received: from outgoing.verizon.net ([192.168.1.1]) by out002.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20041004211512.TPEJ6722.out002.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 16:15:12 -0500 X-Mailer: Openwave WebEngine, version 2.8.12 (webedge20-101-197-20030912) From: To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Gothic Fitted Dress and lack of uniboob Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 16:15:12 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out002.verizon.net from [192.168.1.1] at Mon, 4 Oct 2004 16:15:12 -0500 Message-Id: <20041004211512.TPEJ6722.out002.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > The breasts don't have to be pushed together. This makes me feel _much_ better. >"Up" is the operative word. You want the pressure on the underside of th bosom, which plumps up the top of the each breast. Yes, this I got too. I mostly made it really tight on the bottom so that nothing would slip "through" so to speak. > As for the front seam, I sometimes use a curve in the front to add > projection for a woman who is small-busted. However, it's not a curve of > the type Tasha uses. Mine is more like a parenthesis -- ( -- Oh! I feel so much better! This is EXACTLY what my fitting looks like! I was feeling like a total loser because my curve goes inwards rather than out but then I realized that the mass was accommodated for with an smallish bulge underneath the armhole. Although, I think in this case the inverted curve was that I needed to take it in where there wasn't any mass. I never had to futz with the back seam. That went together perfectly. One thing I will say is that, except for the problems fitting my chest, the straight-front method is really, really easy. I've had both done: a curved front and a straight front and where the curved front took an hour, the straight front took 20 minutes. (Then 20 more minutes futzing with the front...) Thank you so much! I'm so relieved that I got what I was supposed to get. --Kathy K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 4 17:18:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i94LIA5G022841 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:18:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94LHA3x023513 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Oct 2004 15:17:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94LH66Q014053; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 15:17:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out004.verizon.net (out004pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.142]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94LH36Q014004 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 15:17:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kathysmassmail@verizon.net) Received: from outgoing.verizon.net ([192.168.1.1]) by out004.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20041004211702.BIFE28868.out004.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 16:17:02 -0500 X-Mailer: Openwave WebEngine, version 2.8.12 (webedge20-101-197-20030912) From: To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Gothic Fitted Dress and lack of uniboob Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 16:17:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out004.verizon.net from [192.168.1.1] at Mon, 4 Oct 2004 16:17:02 -0500 Message-Id: <20041004211702.BIFE28868.out004.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Greetings! What an great question! I was watching the BBC "what not to wear" show one day and they had a gal on with virtually no tits whatsoever! You know, it's interesting. I do have a chest. I think it's just that the barrel of my chest is so broad that I couldn't push them together. Too much space in between? I know that I always have to get clothing in a large size and take it in at the waist to get shirts to fit my shoulders. Ah, the joy of standardized fitting! --Kathy K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 4 17:50:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i94Lop5C023031 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:50:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94LoF3x026897 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Oct 2004 15:50:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94LnC6Q038594; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 15:49:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94Lm86Q037901 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 15:48:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA00473 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 16:56:24 -0500 Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 16:56:23 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Gothic Fitted Dress and lack of uniboob In-Reply-To: <20041004211512.TPEJ6722.out002.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 4 Oct 2004 kathysmassmail@verizon.net wrote: > > As for the front seam, I sometimes use a curve in the front to add > > projection for a woman who is small-busted. However, it's not a curve of > > the type Tasha uses. Mine is more like a parenthesis -- ( -- > > Oh! I feel so much better! This is EXACTLY what my fitting looks like! > I was feeling like a total loser because my curve goes inwards rather > than out but then I realized that the mass was accommodated for with > an smallish bulge underneath the armhole. Next time, you can see if you can flatten out that bulge (and shift more of that side mass forward) by applying some selective pressure at the side front. Take out a vertical triangular wedge of fabric from the side front about an inch wide and three or four inches deep. This comes off the front piece only, so it moves the back piece forward a bit under the arm. This will smooth out the bulge and also take out any ripple at the bottom of the armhole. Probably too late to do now, though, because you need to do it before you finalize the armhole. Still, I've found that step essential for larger-busted women; I'm not sure if it would have the same effect on a small-busted woman (I usually make the decision case-by-case, and I can't remember if I've had to use this regularly in those cases). > Although, I think in this case the inverted curve was that I needed to > take it in where there wasn't any mass. I never had to futz with the > back seam. That went together perfectly. Good. I always start with the back seam, because the back isn't so malleable. If you get the back seam right, you have an "anchor" for the rest of the fitting, when you're moving things around. > One thing I will say is that, except for the problems fitting my > chest, the straight-front method is really, really easy. I've had both > done: a curved front and a straight front and where the curved front > took an hour, the straight front took 20 minutes. (Then 20 more > minutes futzing with the front...) I find the straight front easier for several reasons, another one being that most of the high-pressure lacing holes are on grain and less likely to ripple and gap. > Thank you so much! I'm so relieved that I got what I was supposed to get. Well, it's all speculation. You got something that I would have gotten, but whether that's what we're "supposed" to get ... we can only make educated guesses about what someone in period might have done to achieve the shape. I think, though that if you feel supported and comfortable, your figure looks period, and your posture shifts the right way, we can say it's a reasonable and logical guess. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 4 18:28:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i94MSNZB023230 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 18:28:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94MRp3x000976 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Oct 2004 16:27:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94MRk6Q068849; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 16:27:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94MRh6Q068764 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 16:27:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AF0D10E57 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 15:27:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041004151614.00b13a60@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 15:27:38 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kimiko Small Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Renaissance costuming dilemma X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all, I am hoping some of you can help me with a personal costuming dilemma. I attended my favorite Renaissance faire this past weekend, and came away with my eyes opened, and strong disgust for what I saw. What was so bad you may ask? The realization that faire costumes have only a passing resemblance to the historical portraits and actual surviving costumes I have learned so much about. I could go on into details, but the list is rather long. I have learned a lot in the past couple of years, mainly from you the list members, actually looking at period portraits (as taught by this list) and recent classes at Costume College. I want to say "thank you, for teaching me so much about historical garments" and "I hate you, because now I cannot go back to simply accepting what is" to this list, but "thank you" is much more appropriate. So, my dilemma. Is there any way to help the faire people improve the costumes being worn, especially by the nobles, or should I just hang it up and move on in my life and improving my own skills only? I am part of a nobles guild, and I am friends with the gentleman who plays the King, so I am thinking maybe there is a chance of changing things. I have also just started a costuming group that currently is filled with renaissance members, so maybe I can have an influence there. But I also do not want to beat my head against a stone wall, for I have done that on other things before, and I hate when my head hurts. Any thoughts and suggestions? Thanks for any thoughts, and thanks again to you all for teaching me so much about historical garments. Really, thanks. Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 4 18:37:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i94MbLWD023254 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 18:37:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94Mam3x001734 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Oct 2004 16:36:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94Mae6Q075417; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 16:36:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail10.mdx.safepages.com (mail10.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.33]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94Mac6Q075368 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 16:36:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail10.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 4962F206EE; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 22:36:42 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust129.tnt2.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.178.129]) by mail10.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 762DB207A7; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 22:36:40 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <018601c4aa62$9ecc69d0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" , <15thCenturyEurope@yahoogroups.com> References: <006701c4a95e$8adfa8b0$0db00040@softwareinnovation.com> Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:36:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] fur-lined dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Excited!! I just ordered enough of a lovely Toscana lambskin w/very thin leather backing for this gown (and perhaps trim on a few other gowns): http://www.formfunction.org/temp/1495-1515Francecrop.jpg (the woman in red) The fur's color is different; it'll be a naturalish sort of dark reddish brown. Since the darker colored furs were more fashionable at this time, I think I'm going to dress up the gown a bit more than the one shown in this specific illumination. This illumination is the one that pushed me over the edge into making the gown, but there are dozens of other inspirational illustrations of basically the same style; the only thing exceptional about this one is the split at the front, which is unusual but not unheard of this early in the century. The problem is that I'm sort of stalled when it comes to thinking of ways to fancy it up. I'm aiming for a target date of 1510-15 for the gown, but most of the fancier, stereotypically 'Tudor' elements are yet to come at that date. Since I'm blowing all my money on the fur lining, I can't use the main fancying method of the time, namely expensive fabric; I'll be using a solid burgundy ribbed silk w/linen weft. I'm not sure exactly how yet, but I'll be working some black details into the outfit, so the overall color scheme will be muted lightish burgundy, dark reddish brown, and black. >From what I've seen, embroidery wasn't really used that much on outer gowns at this time, at least not in any ways that seem suitable. I could pearl it like Mary Tudor's black gown, but again with the money; I might be able to stand glass pearls from an authentic standpoint, but even with those the cost might add up pretty fast. Nifty little metal mounts might work, but wouldn't satisfy me by themselves; other than that, about the only thing I can think of is trim or ribbon. I'd like to use only authentic materials in this, though, so the trim is almost certainly out, and that much silk ribbon gets expensive, even ordering from JKM! Ideally, I'd like to find something that doesn't cost much in materials, but can be made to look very nice with the application of enough elbow grease. Embroidery would be good, if only I could find some suitable application of it! Any ideas, keeping in mind that I'm going for the most authenticity possible within my budget of around $40ish? (Uy. All together, the materials of this outfit are going to be ~$750. I really don't want to mess this up!) -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 4 18:51:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i94MpAxO023295 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 18:51:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94Moe3x003286 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Oct 2004 16:50:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94Moc6Q085593; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 16:50:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (chori.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94MoW6Q085481 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 16:50:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ldownward@chori.org) X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Sophos http://raeinternet.com/mpp Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP-TLS id 1482074 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 04 Oct 2004 15:50:24 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.0.0.040405 Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 15:50:23 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renaissance costuming dilemma From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20041004151614.00b13a60@64.87.54.245> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Which one did you go to that upset you so much? Hanford? The samll faires are the hardest to keep accurate, especially since the REC fairs don't focus on history or accuracy anymore. You've got a great many things going for your change. You have the ear of the king; even as an actor not a real king, he'll lead fashion because he's the most visible in a very visible group. If you're part of a guild, you can carefully change things from the inside, especially by offering a well-placed, well-spoken hint here and there. Any costuming group you start has your research available to it; that will help in a couple of year's time. Please remember that these outfits are expensive. I know very few people who can afford to rekit themselves yearly. It may take several years for the newest costumes to get up to snuff. Be patient, delicate and subtle and you'll raise the bar year after year. After all, look how long it took even you to realize the need for improvement. Best wishes, LynnD > From: Kimiko Small > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 15:27:38 -0700 > To: > Subject: [h-cost] Renaissance costuming dilemma > > Hi all, > > I am hoping some of you can help me with a personal costuming dilemma. > > I attended my favorite Renaissance faire this past weekend, and came away > with my eyes opened, and strong disgust for what I saw. What was so bad you > may ask? The realization that faire costumes have only a passing > resemblance to the historical portraits and actual surviving costumes I > have learned so much about. I could go on into details, but the list is > rather long. > > I have learned a lot in the past couple of years, mainly from you the list > members, actually looking at period portraits (as taught by this list) and > recent classes at Costume College. I want to say "thank you, for teaching > me so much about historical garments" and "I hate you, because now I cannot > go back to simply accepting what is" to this list, but "thank you" is much > more appropriate. > > So, my dilemma. Is there any way to help the faire people improve the > costumes being worn, especially by the nobles, or should I just hang it up > and move on in my life and improving my own skills only? I am part of a > nobles guild, and I am friends with the gentleman who plays the King, so I > am thinking maybe there is a chance of changing things. I have also just > started a costuming group that currently is filled with renaissance > members, so maybe I can have an influence there. But I also do not want to > beat my head against a stone wall, for I have done that on other things > before, and I hate when my head hurts. > > Any thoughts and suggestions? > > Thanks for any thoughts, and thanks again to you all for teaching me so > much about historical garments. Really, thanks. > > Kimiko > Kimiko Small > Owner ~ DreamTime Studios > http://www.dreamtime-studios.com > Fresno, CA, USA > > "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 4 18:54:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i94Ms3IY023314 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 18:54:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94MlW3x002966 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Oct 2004 16:47:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94MlM6Q083293; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 16:47:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com (outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com [64.136.20.164]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i94MlK6Q083198 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 16:47:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from outbound21-sr.nyc.untd.com (webmail14.nyc.untd.com [10.140.30.156]) by smtpout04.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABAYDWYVA4US8NJ for (sender ); Mon, 4 Oct 2004 15:46:43 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCpKe7BDSiBlaCDCJ6nOPR+WS19AL3yXLxw== Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by webmail14.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id J85QYWMD; Mon, 04 Oct 2004 15:45:53 PDT Received: from [4.158.81.178] by webmail14.nyc.untd.com with HTTP: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 22:45:31 GMT X-Originating-IP: [4.158.81.178] Mime-Version: 1.0 From: "seamstrix@juno.com" Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 22:45:31 GMT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renaissance costuming dilemma X-Mailer: WebMail Version 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <20041004.154553.1158.237014@webmail14.nyc.untd.com> X-ContentStamp: 10:5:4273352859 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My advice to you is to lead by example. Sometimes people think that authenticity=dull, but if you begin making really fab clothes that are both period and great looking, many people will come around to your way of thinking. You won't convince everybody and you will make more ememies than friends by brow beating. Unless you are given some sort of official costume position, all you can do is dress yourself wonderfully, share information and resources with anyone who is interested, and praise the people who try to do it right. What faire do you go too? Karen (Official Bristol Escapee) -- Kimiko Small wrote: Hi all, I am hoping some of you can help me with a personal costuming dilemma. I attended my favorite Renaissance faire this past weekend, and came away with my eyes opened, and strong disgust for what I saw. What was so bad you may ask? The realization that faire costumes have only a passing resemblance to the historical portraits and actual surviving costumes I have learned so much about. I could go on into details, but the list is rather long. I have learned a lot in the past couple of years, mainly from you the list members, actually looking at period portraits (as taught by this list) and recent classes at Costume College. I want to say "thank you, for teaching me so much about historical garments" and "I hate you, because now I cannot go back to simply accepting what is" to this list, but "thank you" is much more appropriate. So, my dilemma. Is there any way to help the faire people improve the costumes being worn, especially by the nobles, or should I just hang it up and move on in my life and improving my own skills only? I am part of a nobles guild, and I am friends with the gentleman who plays the King, so I am thinking maybe there is a chance of changing things. I have also just started a costuming group that currently is filled with renaissance members, so maybe I can have an influence there. But I also do not want to beat my head against a stone wall, for I have done that on other things before, and I hate when my head hurts. Any thoughts and suggestions? Thanks for any thoughts, and thanks again to you all for teaching me so much about historical garments. Really, thanks. Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________ Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 4 19:02:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i94N2t6H023364 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 19:02:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94N2K3x004351 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:02:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94N2H6Q093909; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:02:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail2.mdx.safepages.com (mail2.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94N2E6Q093875 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:02:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail2.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id E76191D1216; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 23:02:15 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust129.tnt2.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.178.129]) by mail2.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 358AF1D1221 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 23:02:14 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <019101c4aa66$34291430$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20041004.154553.1158.237014@webmail14.nyc.untd.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renaissance costuming dilemma Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 18:02:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Pardon me for playing devil's advocate, but are you sure they would recognize these really fab clothing as _being_ authentic? Might that not be at least part of the problem? Unless you get the opportunity to tell each and every person who sees you in that costume, "Hey! Doesn't this dress look fab? Guess what? It's accurate, too!" then the key part of the message would be lost, wouldn't it? Not suggesting a solution here, just nit-picking others who are more helpful than I! =} Personally, I'd just natter about authenticity until it started feeling like I was beating my head against a wall, and then give up rather than going through any actual effort. Or treat the assumption that authenticity is key as though it were so basic that naturally everyone is interested in it, and begin talking about documentation type stuff whenever anyone so much as looks twice at something I'm wearing... -E House (maybe this is why I haven't gotten around to finding costumey groups to hang out with. I don't snark though, honest!) ----- Original Message ----- From: > My advice to you is to lead by example. Sometimes people think that authenticity=dull, but if you begin making really fab clothes that are both period and great looking, many people will come around to your way of thinking. You won't convince everybody and you will make more ememies than friends by brow beating. Unless you are given some sort of official costume position, all you can do is dress yourself wonderfully, share information and resources with anyone who is interested, and praise the people who try to do it right. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 4 19:13:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i94NDYMI023414 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 19:13:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94N904P004906 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:13:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94Mu76Q089539; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 16:56:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav23.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.80]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94Mu66Q089464 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 16:56:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 15:56:00 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by bay9-dav23.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Mon, 04 Oct 2004 22:55:18 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 791 Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 18:55:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Oct 2004 22:56:00.0496 (UTC) FILETIME=[5142AF00:01C4AA65] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Turns out that "switching them every day" thing is pure myth -- your > suspicion that they'd just never be comfortable is accurate. In examinations > of archaeological finds of straight-lasted shoes it is apparent that they > were earmarked for one foot or the other and broken in to suit just one > foot, left or right. It's not historical evidence, but it's interesting to note that this is still done today with straight shoes today, such as ballet slippers and pointes. We used to mark them with a ball point pen on the sole to make sure we'd always put them on the right foot, so they could adapt to the shape of the foot they were usually worn on. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 4 19:25:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i94NPlml023490 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 19:25:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94NPB3x006305 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:25:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94NP86Q009048; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:25:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav3.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.107]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94NP66Q008973 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:25:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 16:25:01 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by bay9-dav3.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Mon, 04 Oct 2004 23:24:04 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.1.1.0.20041004151614.00b13a60@64.87.54.245> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renaissance costuming dilemma Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 19:19:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Oct 2004 23:25:01.0004 (UTC) FILETIME=[5EAF20C0:01C4AA69] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > So, my dilemma. Is there any way to help the faire people improve the > costumes being worn, especially by the nobles, or should I just hang it up > and move on in my life and improving my own skills only? I am part of a > nobles guild, and I am friends with the gentleman who plays the King, so I > am thinking maybe there is a chance of changing things. I have also just > started a costuming group that currently is filled with renaissance > members, so maybe I can have an influence there. But I also do not want to > beat my head against a stone wall, for I have done that on other things > before, and I hate when my head hurts. Seems to me like you're on the right track. I'll tell you my own story. I joined the SCA 4 years ago. The first event I attended, I felt bad because I was wearing one of my old Halloween costumes... but realized most people weren't wearing anything better. But the few really amazing dresses were enough to impress me. Sadly, I rarely think they're that amazing anymore. After four years, I still attend even the most basic costuming workshop (you never know what you'll learn). I take care to examine what everyone is wearing, paying extra attention to the ones I like, and I just glance over the awful ones. Look the other way. I make a point of telling those people who have great clothing that I admire what they are wearing. I try to make the best for myself, and take extra care of those who come to me for advice - those coming for advice are the most precious future costumers, because they do care. And I talk with other costumers when they make something new. Gather information, show interest. We don't have a guild, but we know who the other costumers are, that way we can help each other. Mostly, I've learned to look the other way when I see something awful. Except at Pennsic - that's such a different planet, you just can't help looking at the bad garb and trying to categorize it! (Per "Claus' Guide to Bad Garb" categories: 1-The Middle Ages but not of this planet; 2-Not enoug fabric for body type; 3-Obtrusively modern body decoration; 4-Fabric and/or color not found in nature; 5-I'm too important for my garb; 6-Underwear is not garb; 7-Half and outfit is better than none; 8-I dream of Jeannie... and so many others) But, in the end, I don't feel like educating the whole planet. I make clothing for myself, and I do like helping people who ask for advice, but I'm not the dedicated type. I hope at least you don't feel so alone. You're not the only one facing this dilemma. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 4 19:26:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i94NQi6Z023498 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 19:26:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94NQF3x006400 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:26:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94NQE6Q009687; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:26:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web50603.mail.yahoo.com (web50603.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i94NPL6Q009105 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:25:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Message-ID: <20041004232514.89637.qmail@web50603.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.49.146.76] by web50603.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 04 Oct 2004 19:25:14 EDT Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 19:25:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Kathy Page To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200410042151.i94Lpc6Q040963@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: 1500/1600 Lace Patterns X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That would be absolutely delightful Bjarne, thank you. If you have more detail on the burial and the clothing they found it on, more is the better! The Patterns though are a start - it'll be a while before I can produce anything really recognisable. :-) May as well begin with the old patterns right from the start. Kathy > From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" > Dear Kathy, > If you would like, i have some bobbin lace patterns > reconstrukted from old > laces at a royal burrial in Roskilde Cathedral. The > find was from 1615ies, > but the laces was sitting on old garments wich was > older. > I can email them if you want me to. > > Bjarne ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 4 19:43:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i94NhOMt023588 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 19:43:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94Nd14X007223 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:42:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94NSx6Q011218; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:28:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web50601.mail.yahoo.com (web50601.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.88]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i94NSu6Q011159 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:28:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Message-ID: <20041004232851.19242.qmail@web50601.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.49.146.76] by web50601.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 04 Oct 2004 19:28:51 EDT Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 19:28:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Kathy Page To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200410041803.i94I3Bvg036868@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: 1500/1600 Lace Patterns X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks so much for your suggestion. I'll big around and see what I can find. Kathy > From: "Joanna Hobbins" > You should check out the Digital Archive of > Documents on Weaving, Textiles, > Lace, and Related Topics. > > http://www.cs.arizona.edu/patterns/weaving/index.html > > They have thousands of OOP books, pamphlets, > articles on pretty much > everything related to textiles available as PDF > files. > > I would suggest using their topic lists first. > > http://www.cs.arizona.edu/patterns/weaving/topic_lace.html > > Cheers, > > Joanna ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 4 19:53:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i94NrAUb023624 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 19:53:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94Nqe3x008219 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:52:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94Nqe6Q026639; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:52:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94Not6Q025728 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:50:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 698CC10F19 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 16:50:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041004163936.02015078@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 16:50:53 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renaissance costuming dilemma In-Reply-To: <019101c4aa66$34291430$0400a8c0@compaqub> References: <20041004.154553.1158.237014@webmail14.nyc.untd.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi E House, At 06:02 PM 10/4/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Pardon me for playing devil's advocate, but are you sure they would >recognize these really fab clothing as _being_ authentic? Might that not be >at least part of the problem? Thanks for making this comment. After working on my husband's tudor doublet and base, in what I believe was a period fashion as based on portraits and an actual garment, my husband called it a "maternity dress" because of the fullness of the base skirt. I know he knows that I put in hard work on it. I know he knows that he wasn't saying something to hurt me, but that is what it looked like to him. If that is what it looks like to him, what does it look like to those who don't know better? > Or treat the assumption that > authenticity is key as though it were so basic that naturally everyone is > interested in it, and begin talking about documentation type stuff whenever > anyone so much as looks twice at something I'm wearing... People are apparently not interested in documentation, unless the guild master/mistress pushed documentation. A friend of mine, now guild master in his own right, does push for documentation and authenticity for his Irish kerns, and I really like how they look. There are other guilds wearing documentable garments, and I recognize them right away as such. Then there are the majority that it feels like pulling teeth just to get them to follow the most basic costuming guidelines. After pondering here a bit, I think I will push for documentation, at least amongst those I can influence in some manner. Maybe then when people do the research into a portrait or particular style, it might stick and they might start looking at things in a different manner. After all, that's what this list has helped me to do. Thanks for playing devil's advocate. You have given me more to think about. Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 4 19:53:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i94NrBgm023627 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 19:53:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94NpS3x008132 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:51:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94NpR6Q026029; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:51:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94Nos6Q025717 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:50:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id C72FB10F06 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 16:50:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041004163204.05da3180@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 16:39:21 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renaissance costuming dilemma In-Reply-To: <20041004.154553.1158.237014@webmail14.nyc.untd.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:45 PM 10/4/2004 +0000, you wrote: >My advice to you is to lead by example. Sometimes people think that >authenticity=dull, but if you begin making really fab >clot >hesthatarebothperiodandgreatlooking,manypeoplewillcomearoundtoyourwayofthinking.Youwon't >convince everybody and you will make more ememies than friends by brow >beating. Unless you are given some sort of official costume position, all >you can do is dress yourself wonderfully, share information and resources >with anyone who is interested, and praise the people who try to do it right. > > >What faire do you go too? > > >Karen >(Official Bristol Escapee) Hi Karen I go to several Central California renaissance faires, which are small in size and only for a weekend. The larger events are several hours drive from me, so I usually only attend those about once a year, if that. The faire I was troubled by is Hanford Renaissance of Kings. And I like your suggestions, especially the suggestion "make more ememies than friends by brow beating". I don't want to be a "costume nazi", but ... but. Is there a "but" to that? I have really come around to the realization that we can talk about improving faire, but for all the talk of improvement in different aspects of faire, I have seen little real results. Historical costuming is my area to deal with, but it is more than just costumes. However, for all that talk, I do think that leading by examples would be the best way to improve our historical garments. Thanks Karen for your insight. Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 4 19:56:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i94NuAKD023635 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 19:56:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94Ntf3x008459 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:55:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94Ntd6Q028118; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:55:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94NtO6Q027937 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:55:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E79C5D5FA for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 16:55:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041004165304.02104b90@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 16:55:19 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renaissance costuming dilemma In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.1.1.0.20041004151614.00b13a60@64.87.54.245> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 07:19 PM 10/4/2004 -0400, you wrote: >I hope at least you don't feel so alone. You're not the only one facing this >dilemma. Hi Audrey, Thank you for sharing your story. It does help to know I am not alone in this perspective. << Per "Claus' Guide to Bad Garb" categories >> Do you have a link to this guide? I would love to see it. Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 4 19:56:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i94NudA3023643 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 19:56:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94Now3x008090 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:50:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94Nou6Q025737; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:50:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94Nos6Q025715 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:50:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36B3410F11 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 16:50:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041004161636.02101d88@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 16:31:47 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renaissance costuming dilemma In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.1.1.0.20041004151614.00b13a60@64.87.54.245> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi LynnD At 03:50 PM 10/4/2004 -0700, you wrote: >Which one did you go to that upset you so much? Hanford? The samll faires >are the hardest to keep accurate, especially since the REC fairs don't focus >on history or accuracy anymore. Yes, it was Hanford Renaissance of Kings, in Hanford California (south of Fresno, CA) for those not in California. I did that faire, or attended that faire, since 1987. I used to be a board member, and even was Entertainment co-chair with the guy who plays the King in '98. Now the board is four people only, and things have gone downhill. I would rather they call it a fantasy faire or a middle eastern bazaar, because that is what it looks like anymore, especially with many of the vendors they had. I even have a nice troll costume I could finish in time for next year's event if they went fantasy. >You've got a great many things going for your change. You have the ear of >the king; even as an actor not a real king, he'll lead fashion because he's >the most visible in a very visible group. MMmmm... Michael, the actor who plays the King, can really only control his own group. They have really come up in appearances this year, but he can't help out with those in the other court groups who only spend time walking in procession or at the noon stage show. Michael has always had outstanding garments which both he and his partner sew themselves.,But he actually prefers the theatrical look over the historical, which disappointed me. But I think we can still talk and maybe work on improving by his example. >If you're part of a guild, you can >carefully change things from the inside, especially by offering a >well-placed, well-spoken hint here and there. I have tried that for a year now, and they aren't budging much. Our guildmistress prefers zippers hidden behind plackets, and snap in sleeves or epaulettes, to switch between Elizabethan and Henry style garments. Our members are following her lead, despite the fact I am supposedly the guild's costume mistress. However, my hint on using linen instead of cotton is starting to take a hold. >Any costuming group you start >has your research available to it; that will help in a couple of year's >time. Very true, and we are just starting things. >Please remember that these outfits are expensive. I know very few >people who can afford to rekit themselves yearly. It may take several years >for the newest costumes to get up to snuff. Very true as well, to a point. Some of the problems I saw, like silver yardage lace for French hoods can easily and cheaply be replaced with black material. However, was she ever told lace yardage is not appropriate? She wasn't the only one who wears lace hoods. And one lady is still wearing a large black mu mu like garment, which she knows is not appropriate. However, this is her second year wearing it, and we have already talked last year on how to create her next outfit. >Be patient, delicate and subtle and you'll raise the bar year after year. >After all, look how long it took even you to realize the need for >improvement. Very, very true. Thank you for this reminder. I just have difficulties being patient sometimes, and subtle... sometimes. I guess I am just frustrated. >Best wishes, >LynnD Thank you LynnD. Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 4 20:06:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9506fQF023665 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 20:06:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9500w3x008785 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Oct 2004 18:00:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9500v6Q030918; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 18:00:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9500t6Q030901 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 18:00:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) Received: from [192.168.167.42] (helo=wamui04.slb.atl.earthlink.net) by smtp6.mindspring.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CEclD-00075I-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 04 Oct 2004 20:00:55 -0400 Message-ID: <8021802.1096934455525.JavaMail.root@wamui04.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 20:00:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Laning To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] fur-lined dress Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i9500t6Q030901 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO E. House wrote: >From what I've seen, embroidery wasn't really used that much on outer gowns >at this time, at least not in any ways that seem suitable. I could pearl it >like Mary Tudor's black gown, but again with the money; I might be able to >stand glass pearls from an authentic standpoint, but even with those the >cost might add up pretty fast. Nifty little metal mounts might work, but >wouldn't satisfy me by themselves; other than that, about the only thing I >can think of is trim or ribbon. I'd like to use only authentic materials in >this, though, so the trim is almost certainly out, and that much silk ribbon >gets expensive, even ordering from JKM! Ideally, I'd like to find something >that doesn't cost much in materials, but can be made to look very nice with >the application of enough elbow grease. "Guards" are always good! Guards are strips of contrasting fabric used to trim front openings, hems, bodice edges, neckline edges et cetera in the period you're looking at. They can be plain or fancy and don't have to cost a lot. They can be a plain strip of ribbon, a strip of velveteen, or a strip of fancy brocade (which doesn't cost _nearly_ as much as making the whole gown of the fancy stuff :). The guards can also be trimmed -- this is easy to do because you can do all the fiddly bits _before_ you sew the strips onto the garment, and if they're well made, they can be taken off and used again on something else. A couple of nice examples of trim made from strips of cloth: http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/b/bronzino/2/portlady.jpg http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/b/bronzino/2/young_g.jpg Above all, Couched Cord is Your Friend . This seems to have been a very popular way to add some "fanciness" to one's clothing. The Tudors, as well as the Spanish, French, et cetera, loved intricately braided patterns, with loops, interlacings, spirals et cetera, which you can find by looking at portraits -- my favorite example is the French king Francois I, in his portrait by Clouet, where you can clearly see the decorative pattern of sewn-down lengths of cord on his sleeves. You can use plain fiber cords if you're portraying someone not too wealthy, or cords with metallic thread if you're playing someone from the upper classes (and if you can find some that don't have that tacky lamé metallic look). Finding good materials that are authentic is admittedly somewhat hard. Ideally you could make them yourself by tablet weaving or finger-loop braiding, but you are talking many yards of cord here. Most of the cord you find in the trim sections of fabric stores these days is rayon, which is very shiny (almost too shiny) and also rather fragile. Silk is of course much sturdier but also more expensive. Some of the cotton cords and simple trims you can find are a decent substitute -- for a flat pattern you can interweave several strands of it in curves and open interlacings for a very nice effect. My old wool gown (which doesn't fit any more) has two strands of round cord and two of flat braid in a very simple pattern -- crossing "waves" in opposite directions, creating a chain-like pattern. (Occasionally someone will compliment me on the "Celtic interlace" which always makes me giggle, since it's an Italian pattern...). Just be sure that you choose fairly simple cords so they do! n't distract from the patterns. A couple of examples of corded or interlaced trim: http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/c/clouet/jean/francois.jpg http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/h/holbein/hans_y/1535h/01henry8.jpg http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/c/clouet/francois/charles7.jpg ____________________________________________________________ 0 Chris Laning | + Davis, California ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 4 20:42:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i950gQ1Z023783 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 20:42:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i950ft3x011312 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Oct 2004 18:41:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i950fq6Q050192; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 18:41:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web13527.mail.yahoo.com (web13527.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i950fo6Q050167 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 18:41:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pioneercynthia@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20041005004150.38848.qmail@web13527.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.69.42.215] by web13527.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 04 Oct 2004 17:41:50 PDT Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:41:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Ms Cynthia Schrage To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200410042352.i94Nqm6S026718@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Costuming dilemma X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kimiko, I remember attending one of my last SCA events several years ago (after a 10 year hiatus) and laughing with some friends over how, after years and years, some rather "heavy" women WILL wear garments of dubious historical value that make them appear like nothing more than a walking wet-nurse advertisement, and some men WILL wear kilts belted UNDER their very protruding bellies. We all had a long discussion on the value of expressing our opinions to these people (disgust, offers of costuming help, etc.) and the final consensus was that people are usually quite aware of what they're wearing. If they want help, THEY will ask for it. Cynthia > > I am hoping some of you can help me with a personal > costuming dilemma. > > I attended my favorite Renaissance faire this past > weekend, and came away > with my eyes opened, and strong disgust for what I > saw. What was so bad you > may ask? The realization that faire costumes have > only a passing > resemblance to the historical portraits and actual > surviving costumes I > have learned so much about. I could go on into > details, but the list is > rather long. > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 4 20:43:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i950hM3G023789 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 20:43:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i950gp3x011376 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Oct 2004 18:42:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i950go6Q050635; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 18:42:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav24.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.81]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i950g86Q050285 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 18:42:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:42:03 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by bay9-dav24.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 05 Oct 2004 00:41:27 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.1.1.0.20041004151614.00b13a60@64.87.54.245> <5.2.1.1.0.20041004165304.02104b90@64.87.54.245> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renaissance costuming dilemma Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 20:36:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Oct 2004 00:42:03.0301 (UTC) FILETIME=[21C9AD50:01C4AA74] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > << Per "Claus' Guide to Bad Garb" categories >> > Do you have a link to this guide? I would love to see it. I don't think it's online anywhere. I don't even know if he sells anywhere but at Pennsic, because by googling "Claus Toymaker -Santa" I could only find links to Pennsic articles. If you know someone who's going though, it's worth buying at least the first volume. It's a little booklet that will change the way you view the SCA! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 4 21:06:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9516qM2023867 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 21:06:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9516J3x013685 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Oct 2004 19:06:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9516J6Q062790; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 19:06:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i951696Q062680 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 19:06:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 22263 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2004 01:07:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO webmail.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com with SMTP; 5 Oct 2004 01:07:21 -0000 Received: from 162.119.64.110 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com); by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 18:06:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <11487.162.119.64.110.1096938369.squirrel@162.119.64.110> In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20041004151614.00b13a60@64.87.54.245> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20041004151614.00b13a60@64.87.54.245> Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 18:06:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renaissance costuming dilemma From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a X-Mailer: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Hi all, > > I am hoping some of you can help me with a personal costuming dilemma. > > I attended my favorite Renaissance faire this past weekend, and came away > with my eyes opened, and strong disgust for what I saw. What was so bad > you > may ask? The realization that faire costumes have only a passing > resemblance to the historical portraits and actual surviving costumes I > have learned so much about. I could go on into details, but the list is > rather long. Kimiko, I have played in the SCA and I have played in the Ren Faires (both big and small). And after doing both I realized a couple of things that may help.... Ren Faire is *Theater* and as such, the "actors" don't necessarily care about accuracy. The people who go to the Ren Faires don't enjoy it any less because it isn't accurate. As long as it looks close, they are happy. And maybe that is okay.....it isn't *re-enactment* so maybe it isn't prudent to expect them to be re-enactors with appropriate garb and all. And people have mentioned the problems of bad garb in the SCA as well. The one thing I have taught myself about people in the SCA is that most of them only vaguely attempt period clothing because they have to wear something. For most of them, their focus is something else. And that is okay. And when I see someone who has clothing that might cringe at, I try to find what they did *right* instead of what they did *wrong*. This is also a good thing when someone asks your opinion about their dress/doublet. First say what is good about it (nice fit, lovely trim, nice neckline, very flattering, etc.) even if it is in flourescent orange poly/rayon blend. And try to only offer your opinion if it is asked. People don't take kindly to unsolicited comments on how they can improve their garb. Wait until they ask for help. HTH, Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 4 21:11:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i951BCSJ023896 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 21:11:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9515Z3x013627 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Oct 2004 19:05:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9515S6Q062305; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 19:05:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from incoming.SIGENETICS.com ([209.172.110.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9514w6Q062010 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 19:05:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sbuchler@silicongenetics.com) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: RE: [h-cost] fur-lined dress Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 18:04:52 -0700 Message-ID: <0D3431E0FD777844A4ED9507E4D698D90D2785@incoming.sigenetics.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 800 Thread-Index: AcSqbc0GWBDq76x4RIuwO7d8bMgS5AABH3wA From: "Sunny Buchler" To: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i9514w6Q062010 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A couple pictures that have been referenced on this list before that might be helpful: http://search.sothebys.com/jsps/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=3XXMS -- this seems like metal do-dads to me, but I didn't examine it closely http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/York,Elizabeth.jpg -- this is more trim then embroidery http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/Tudor,Margaret04.jpg -- I'm not sure this is in your time-frame, and it's probably fancy cloth rather then all-over embroidery My suggestion for this period is that if you fit it well, and have all the appropriate accessories (hat/hood, partlet, any jewelry, etc.) you don't need any more embellishment for the outfit to be stunning. I would think that the fur itself will make such an impact that you'll mundanely qualify for the "expensive fabric" fancy-requirement :-) By the way, where'd you find the lambskin? I hope you post pictures when you're done -- it's been a period I've wanted to play with for years! -sunny _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 4 21:13:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i951D2m6023908 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 21:13:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i951CX3x014067 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Oct 2004 19:12:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i951CV6Q065421; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 19:12:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i951CP6R065367 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 19:12:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i9519hTA011273 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 21:09:43 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 04 Oct 2004 21:09:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4161F4F6.2010803@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 21:12:22 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] fur-lined dress References: <006701c4a95e$8adfa8b0$0db00040@softwareinnovation.com> <018601c4aa62$9ecc69d0$0400a8c0@compaqub> In-Reply-To: <018601c4aa62$9ecc69d0$0400a8c0@compaqub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO E House wrote: > Excited!! I just ordered enough of a lovely Toscana lambskin w/very thin > leather backing for this gown (and perhaps trim on a few other gowns): > http://www.formfunction.org/temp/1495-1515Francecrop.jpg (the woman in red) Do tell us how it ends up working! I wore one of my thinner houpelands this weekend and have been musing on the issue of linings thin enough to give a slender look at the body, yet heavy enough to stop the train from collapsing into a narrow fishtail as one walks. Possibly not the same furs the whole way inside. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent (8.) The "independent and non-partisan" Commission on Presidential Debates is neither independent nor non-partisan. Walter Cronkite called CPD-sponsored debates an 'unconscionable fraud.' -- Connie Rice, NPR _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 4 21:19:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i951JWhi023953 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 21:19:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94NsS3x008391 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:54:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94NsR6Q027524; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:54:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i94NsP6R027469 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:54:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i94NpfTA010728 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 19:51:41 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 04 Oct 2004 19:51:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4161E2AC.6080601@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 19:54:20 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renaissance costuming dilemma References: <5.2.1.1.0.20041004151614.00b13a60@64.87.54.245> In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20041004151614.00b13a60@64.87.54.245> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kimiko Small wrote: > So, my dilemma. Is there any way to help the faire people improve the > costumes being worn, especially by the nobles, The nobles, being "staff" should be easier to influence, if you become one of them or have the ear(s) of same. Faire-attendees often see Faire as an opportunity for costume, fantasy, or what-have-you, so you probably can't do much there, because they're having fun with a different aspect. Although I bet if someone made simple handouts with a few line drawings of what was really worn in the Renaissance and handed them to attendees along with their tickets, that might do some good for next year. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent (8.) The "independent and non-partisan" Commission on Presidential Debates is neither independent nor non-partisan. Walter Cronkite called CPD-sponsored debates an 'unconscionable fraud.' -- Connie Rice, NPR _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 4 21:25:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i951PMWO023986 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 21:25:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i951Jn3x014560 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Oct 2004 19:19:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i951Jm6Q068562; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 19:19:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i951Jl6Q068517 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 19:19:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Chindora@aol.com) Received: from Chindora@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.7.) id 6.1f6.2ddeb9 (3842) for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 21:19:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Chindora@aol.com Message-ID: <1f6.2ddeb9.2e9350a8@aol.com> Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 21:19:36 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5000 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] beaded girdles (Tudor/Elizabethan) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings to the List :) I am beginning a project soon and would like some advice. I plan to make a beaded girdle for a late Tudor gown, and am curious as to the best way to construct it. I realize that I could use silk cord and string the beads, but I have seen some that are available commercially online that are made with wire that appears to be twisted into individual links (_http://www.sapphireandsage.com/girdle.html_ (http://www.sapphireandsage.com/girdle.html) ). I have had a bit of experience doing this, but the only way to really have enough stability with the wire would be to do a twist around at the end of each loop, or a drop of solder, neither of which I am opposed to doing. I have looked at portraits and from what I can see (granted, I have not looked at EVERY Tudor portrait), they appear to be strung on cord as opposed to being connected with wire. Of course stringing the beads on cords would be much quicker, but I have these nightmare visions of a certain four year old yanking mommy's chain and a couple of hundred of beads flying everywhere, unless they are individually knotted, which I also know how to do. I would appreciate advice regarding authentic construction methods as well as suggestions on methods that will produce a durable product. This is something that I will probably wear fairly regularly, so it needs to be able to withstand a good bit of use. Thank you in advance. :) Kimberley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 4 21:30:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i951UhSN024005 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 21:30:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i951UD3x015042 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Oct 2004 19:30:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i951UC6Q072899; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 19:30:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grunt5.ihug.co.nz (grunt5.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i951U96Q072745 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 19:30:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from p171-nas12.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.205.171] by grunt5.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CEe9O-0000ES-00; Tue, 05 Oct 2004 14:29:58 +1300 Message-ID: <009801c4aa7a$ce82b0e0$abcdadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20041004211702.BIFE28868.out004.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Gothic Fitted Dress and lack of uniboob Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 14:29:48 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > You know, it's interesting. I do have a chest. I think it's just that the barrel of my chest is so broad that I couldn't push them together. Too much space in between? I know that I always have to get clothing in a large size and take it in at the waist to get shirts to fit my shoulders. I have a barrel of a chest as well. So did Vivien Leigh apparently, it was a hard task to get her cleavage in the Gone with the Wind costumes for instance. I can't recall where I read it though.. it was a book about her or about costuming. For my latest German garb I've got a curve to my bodice, more like a P though and the curve is not very pronounced at all. http://costumes.glittersweet.com/sca/kampfrau.htm I must update the page soon, a fair bit more has been done to it... You can see if you click the middle thumbnail the curve drawn in pale pencil on the black fabric of the mock up. I also find lying on my back to get into or fit my gowns just makes my breasts fall into my armpit (curve of the ribs is pretty extreme) so I stand and pin from the bottom up and adjust while standing. It takes a bit of work, but I find it works very well for my shape. I'll be making a four part gown (with godets to increase the flare of the skirts) in a gold fabric soon. This will be very interesting as it has no give across and a fair bit on the bias. I'll probably have to cut the outer fabric first then the lining as no doubt the lining will have more stretch that the outer. What to test the pattern in first will be a difficult choice... It'll be lined in red so the colour comes through the gold, and flat lined so there is no allowance seen through the outer fabric;) michaela de bruce http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 4 23:13:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i953Dwbs024429 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 23:13:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i952nm3x019960 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Oct 2004 20:49:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i952ne6Q009433; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 20:49:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i952nb6Q009375 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 20:49:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Rampant_Peacock@comcast.net) Received: from molly (c-24-16-214-133.client.comcast.net[24.16.214.133]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <2004100502492701400rnpnke>; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 02:49:29 +0000 From: "Molly Boone" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Semi-OT: Beaded Trim Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 19:49:26 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have a couple of alternatives for you. 1 Display and costume supply (they are a Seattle store that does online sales) www.displaycostume.com I've found it an invaluable resource for chainette fringe and beaded fringe for Belly Dancing costumes. 2 South Beach Trimmings www.southbeachtrimmings.com I've run into them consistently at the sewing expo here in Seattle and their prices are wonderful. The site shows only a fraction of what they actually carry. Good luck Molly _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 4 23:32:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i953W3H3024528 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 23:32:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i953VD3x022453 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Oct 2004 21:31:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i953V76Q028361; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 21:31:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i953V66Q028340 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 21:31:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08A2651FD9 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 20:31:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041004202843.0202dd58@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 20:29:20 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renaissance costuming dilemma In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.1.1.0.20041004151614.00b13a60@64.87.54.245> <5.2.1.1.0.20041004165304.02104b90@64.87.54.245> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:36 PM 10/4/2004 -0400, you wrote: >If you know someone who's going though, it's >worth buying at least the first volume. It's a little booklet that will >change the way you view the SCA! Unfortunately, I do not know anyone in the SCA anymore, at least not personally around here. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 4 23:32:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i953WqFV024532 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 23:32:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i953W23x022503 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Oct 2004 21:32:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i953W26Q028737; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 21:32:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i953V66Q028350 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 21:31:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7681452010 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 20:31:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041004202936.0201cfe0@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 20:30:19 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming dilemma In-Reply-To: <20041005004150.38848.qmail@web13527.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200410042352.i94Nqm6S026718@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 05:41 PM 10/4/2004 -0700, you wrote: >We all had a long discussion on the value of >expressing our opinions to these people (disgust, >offers of costuming help, etc.) and the final >consensus was that people are usually quite aware of >what they're wearing. If they want help, THEY will ask >for it. > > >Cynthia I hear that sigh. One lady asked me last year for all sorts of advice, and this year none of it was implemented. It really made me sad and frustrated. Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 5 00:22:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i954MD2b024727 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 00:22:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i954Lj3x025555 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Oct 2004 22:21:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i954Ld6Q050283; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 22:21:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41501.mail.yahoo.com (web41501.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i954LJ6Q050083 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 22:21:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celtic_dragonrider@yahoo.ca) Message-ID: <20041005042114.4031.qmail@web41501.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.82.52.78] by web41501.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 05 Oct 2004 00:21:14 EDT Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 00:21:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Janet Renzetti Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gothic Fitted Dress and lack of uniboob To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20041004181622.JKLV23744.out010.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You could stuff underneath and make sure that the top won;t escape. I know the old tissue in the bra is more wishful teenage stuff, but it works for part of the time. I wear a padded bra under my bodice to boost me. If I go without I loose some of the effect that a bodice should give. I have a 34/36b so i am not that big to begin with. IF you dart under the bust sometimes that helps some, but becareful you don;t do too much or it becomes the Madonna pointed look when she was singing about being a virgin, you run out of room to breathe and again you start to loose the effect. I can't think of anything more for you. Other ideas would be great. Janet kathysmassmail@verizon.net wrote: Hello all, I have a question. Has anyone out there ever done a fitting on someone who doesn't have enough, um, chest to achieve the uniboob look? I tried fitting one on myself. It ended up being a cross between the straight front and curved front because the initial fitting was done with a straight front and then I just _couldn't_ get it to look right so I did the front seam by myself to achieve the right-ish look. However, here's my question. No matter WHAT I did, I could not get my breasts up and together without making the pull on my back uncomfortable. I ended up just pushing the mass (in Robin's terms) up and calling it good. I wear a 42A, so I think the relative broadness of my rib cage vs. the size made it difficult to acheive the right look. So, was there someplace I should be compressing harder? What have other people done in those circumstances? Or am I just not the right "Gothic super-model" type? --Kathy K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 5 00:34:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i954YLmb024777 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 00:34:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i954Xp3x026110 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Oct 2004 22:33:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i954Xi6Q055422; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 22:33:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i954Xf6R055399 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 22:33:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-195.sonic.net [209.148.114.195]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i954XbIY029120 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 21:33:40 -0700 Message-ID: <41622423.5030605@lavoltapress.com> Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 21:33:39 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Semi-OT: Beaded Trim References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://www.decoratingstudio.com/ http://www.warehousefabricsinc.com/ I haven't bought from either of the above but they intrigued me. Fran Grimble Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming Two New Books! http://www.lavoltapress.com Molly Boone wrote: >I have a couple of alternatives for you. > >1 Display and costume supply (they are a Seattle store that does online >sales) www.displaycostume.com I've found it an invaluable resource for >chainette fringe and beaded fringe for Belly Dancing costumes. > >2 South Beach Trimmings www.southbeachtrimmings.com I've run into them >consistently at the sewing expo here in Seattle and their prices are >wonderful. The site shows only a fraction of what they actually carry. > >Good luck > >Molly > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 5 01:00:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9550P81024851 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 01:00:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i954xo3x027520 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Oct 2004 22:59:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i954xn6Q065443; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 22:59:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from indirectobject.com (066-241-084-045.bus.ashlandfiber.net [66.241.84.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i954xk6Q065418 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 22:59:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rreed@indirectobject.com) Message-Id: <200410050459.i954xk6Q065418@net.indra.com> Received: from synergy ([192.168.1.1]) by indirectobject.com (WWW [192.168.1.200]) (MDaemon.PRO.v6.8.5.R) with ESMTP id 10-md50000000016.tmp for ; Mon, 04 Oct 2004 22:02:36 -0700 From: To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Costuming dilemma Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 21:58:59 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 In-Reply-To: <20041005004150.38848.qmail@web13527.mail.yahoo.com> Thread-Index: AcSqdMAoPGWABRCeT6ubjrDvApGHZQAIm8Qg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Processed: WWW, Mon, 04 Oct 2004 22:02:36 -0700 (not processed: message from valid local sender) X-MDRemoteIP: 192.168.1.1 X-Return-Path: rreed@indirectobject.com X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have to agree here -- most of these people are very conscious of what they are wearing. Here in Oregon, we have an SCA event every year (Egils) where we get some mundanes trying to play dress up. By this I mean faire-cows (the tits-on-a-platter style bodice), chain maille bikinis and bunny fur loin cloths. Every year, they get "talked to". The first Ren Faire in Brookings, on the coast, was full of fairy wings and Goths. I don't look at Ren Faires as anything that could or should be historically accurate as it can be a starting point for someone who in new to playing. Leading by example is the best way to convert goth-rennies into someone who cares about authenticity. Yes it is frustrating, but you can't change the world. Becky >consensus was that people are usually quite aware of what they're wearing. If they want help, THEY will ask for it. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 5 01:24:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i955ODAj024882 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 01:24:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i955Ni3x028473 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Oct 2004 23:23:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i955Nf6Q074517; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 23:23:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i955Nc6Q074490 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 23:23:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 813F65DB18 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 22:23:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041004221611.00b13ed8@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 22:22:07 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renaissance costuming dilemma In-Reply-To: <11487.162.119.64.110.1096938369.squirrel@162.119.64.110> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20041004151614.00b13a60@64.87.54.245> <5.2.1.1.0.20041004151614.00b13a60@64.87.54.245> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Diana, Thanks for everything you wrote. I can really see your points. Faire isn't re-enactment, although some of the actors want to make it more than simply theatre in the rough. I guess it is a bit of a battle, those who want more history, and those who just enjoy entertaining. At 06:06 PM 10/4/2004 -0700, you wrote: >And when I see someone who has clothing that might cringe at, I try to >find what they did *right* instead of what they did *wrong*. This is also >a good thing when someone asks your opinion about their dress/doublet. >First say what is good about it (nice fit, lovely trim, nice neckline, >very flattering, etc.) even if it is in flourescent orange poly/rayon >blend. That is very good advice, that I try to remember. I usually hold my tongue, but it was holding my tongue all weekend that required me to vent in my LJ and ask advice here. >And try to only offer your opinion if it is asked. People don't take >kindly to unsolicited comments on how they can improve their garb. Wait >until they ask for help. I try do this as well. Last year the "noble" lady in the mu mu drove me nuts at Hanford, then at Kearney last November she asked me for help, which I tried to provide best I could. This year she's again in mu mu, so I am wondering why bother. But then again, it was only one person and I can only provide advice, not make her new outfit unpaid. >HTH, > >Diana Yes, it did help. Thank you again. Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 5 08:07:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i95C7ceH024935 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 08:07:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95C6X3x000521 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Oct 2004 06:06:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95C6N6Q046902; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 06:06:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.254.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95C6L6Q046802 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 06:06:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 13:06:07 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gothic Fitted Dress and lack of uniboob To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3B4E@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Gothic Fitted Dress and lack of uniboob Thread-Index: AcSqjIXRmgMsDzi6TKOsaQKsbz66ywARsi6Q content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.20 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I'll be making a four part gown (with godets to increase the flare of the > skirts) in a gold fabric soon. This will be very interesting as it has no > give across and a fair bit on the bias. I'll probably have to cut the outer > fabric first then the lining as no doubt the lining will have more stretch > that the outer. Shouldn't it be the other way around - fit the lining to give you the correct shape and hold the shape and have the outer fabric over that to give the pretty outer look of the garment? Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 5 08:28:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i95CSXAQ025032 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 08:28:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95CRK3x002255 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Oct 2004 06:27:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95CRJ6Q059259; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 06:27:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net (smtp2.suscom.net [64.78.83.231]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95CRE6R059209 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 06:27:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (smtp2.suscom.net [127.0.0.1]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B45FA1CDDBB for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 08:22:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp2 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 14805-07 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 08:22:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip194.182.235.64.susc.suscom.net [64.235.182.194]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B9E9C1CDDC6 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 08:22:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <054f01c4aad6$9a23feb0$c2b6eb40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20041004211702.BIFE28868.out004.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> <009801c4aa7a$ce82b0e0$abcdadcb@michaela> Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Gothic Fitted Dress and lack of uniboob Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 08:26:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 9:29 PM Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Gothic Fitted Dress and lack of uniboob > I have a barrel of a chest as well. So did Vivien Leigh apparently, it was a > hard task to get her cleavage in the Gone with the Wind costumes for > instance. > > I can't recall where I read it though.. it was a book about her or about > costuming. A favorite story (may well be apocryphal) about this, which is one of my favorite movies. Laurence Olivier walked into the dressing room where Miss Leigh's breasts were being taped together to produce cleavage for the infamous red dress. He watched in silence for a moment, then remarked "And all this time I thought they were perfectly lovely." Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 5 09:33:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i95DXqDW025313 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 09:33:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95DWF3x006325 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Oct 2004 07:32:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95DWC6Q092878; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 07:32:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95DW96Q092770 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 07:32:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 05 Oct 2004 08:32:01 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 08:31:46 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: 1500/1600 Lace Patterns X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Dear Kathy, > If you would like, i have some bobbin lace patterns > reconstrukted from old > laces at a royal burrial in Roskilde Cathedral. The > find was from 1615ies, > but the laces was sitting on old garments wich was > older. > I can email them if you want me to. > > Bjarne >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bjarne; is it to late to add a " me too" :)? Catherine ckinsey@kumc.edu _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 5 09:52:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i95Dq73B025384 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 09:52:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95Dom3x007454 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Oct 2004 07:50:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95DoS6Q003222; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 07:50:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.247]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95DoP6Q003168 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 07:50:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from irmgart@gmail.com) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id q44so417785cwc for ; Tue, 05 Oct 2004 06:50:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.99.64 with SMTP id w64mr411835cwb; Tue, 05 Oct 2004 06:50:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.118.28 with HTTP; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 06:50:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 09:50:24 -0400 From: Irmgart Hasenschlaf To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renaissance costuming dilemma In-Reply-To: <4161E2AC.6080601@thibault.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <5.2.1.1.0.20041004151614.00b13a60@64.87.54.245> <4161E2AC.6080601@thibault.org> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What made me crazy this weekend at Carolina Renaisssance Faire was sort of the opposite. One of the performers took my husband aside (apparently thinking he was also on staff) and said that he didn't think "the boss" would approve of what he was wearing.... "what he was wearing" were pants similar to these in gold colored wool with a black linen base: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v96/thalionar/SCAGarb/Doppelsoldner-1.jpg and a doublet that is a good bit later in black cotton velveteen slashed to show lemon linen (we're making baby steps to get him more in line with the decades he wants to do... a gathered linen shirt and wool waffenrock are next on the list of projects) The objection was to the codpiece. I do admit that I used a touch of artistic license on said codpiece and 1) used a much later pattern for it (from PoF for the Nils Sture codpiece) and 2) used a lightweight silk substitute to make puffs come out of the slashes. Said personage on staff was wearing a tudor ensemble that *should* have had a codpiece, and didn't (paned slops and doublet)...it was kind of amusing, but at the same time freaking annoying since we *paid* to get in, and I doubt seriously that he said anything to the various women wearing "cinchers" who looked like they were smuggling mangoes in their chemises. OK. I'll stop now. -Laura Loignon AKA Irmgart Hasenschlaf On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 19:54:20 -0400, Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Kimiko Small wrote: > > So, my dilemma. Is there any way to help the faire people improve the > > costumes being worn, especially by the nobles, > > The nobles, being "staff" should be easier to influence, if you become > one of them or have the ear(s) of same. > > Faire-attendees often see Faire as an opportunity for costume, fantasy, > or what-have-you, so you probably can't do much there, because they're > having fun with a different aspect. > > Although I bet if someone made simple handouts with a few line drawings > of what was really worn in the Renaissance and handed them to attendees > along with their tickets, that might do some good for next year. > > -- > Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent > > (8.) The "independent and non-partisan" Commission on Presidential > Debates is neither independent nor non-partisan. Walter Cronkite called > CPD-sponsored debates an 'unconscionable fraud.' -- Connie Rice, NPR > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > -- Irmgart Hasenschlaf Canton of Buckston-on-Eno, Barony of Windmasters' Hill, Kingdom of Atlantia! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 5 10:01:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i95E1FBx025411 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 10:01:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95E053x008092 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Oct 2004 08:00:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95E036Q009035; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 08:00:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95Dxx6Q008935 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 07:59:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08290 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 09:08:19 -0500 Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 09:08:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gothic Fitted Dress and lack of uniboob In-Reply-To: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3B4E@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 5 Oct 2004, Teddy wrote: > > I'll be making a four part gown (with godets to increase the flare of > > the skirts) in a gold fabric soon. This will be very interesting as it > > has no give across and a fair bit on the bias. I'll probably have to > > cut the outer fabric first then the lining as no doubt the lining will > > have more stretch that the outer. > > Shouldn't it be the other way around - fit the lining to give you the > correct shape and hold the shape and have the outer fabric over that to > give the pretty outer look of the garment? If it's a fitted dress of the type I talk about, I'd agree with Teddy here. The lining does serious structural work, and it also changes the body shape. If the outer fabric is not going to do the heavy lifting, it would not be a good idea to do that fitting first -- it would be subject to too much pressure, and you'd be fitting it to an un-shaped figure that wouldn't represent the final figure. Even if the lining has "more stretch," you can make allowances in the outer fabric to account for that. However, normally for the lining I'd suggest choosing something that is what you describe for the main fabric -- firm on the grain, good stretch on the bias. Still, I would do this only in natural fibers, which do have some "give" on the grain, though not enough to call it "stretch." It sounds like the outer fabric in this case might not be a natural fiber? On the other hand, perhaps the OP is talking about a different style of dress? In that case, all bets are off on how she's creating the structure. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 5 10:09:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i95E94cM025445 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 10:09:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95E7i3x008639 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Oct 2004 08:07:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95E7f6Q014316; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 08:07:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95E7R6Q014115 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 08:07:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 05 Oct 2004 09:07:21 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 09:07:05 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Renaissance costuming dilemma X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kimiko, I feel your pain! I have watched my local rennfaire (KCRF, owned now by MidAmerica Festivals, Inc.), which I have participated in, one way or another, for 27 years now, go steadily downhill, costume wise, since they went from non-profit to commericially owned. Here in the midwest we do not have the guild system to provide groups of performers to inhabit our village and make it come alive. All roles, from court to beggar, are auditioned for and recast each year. Sometimes a performer plays the same role for several years, sometimes they don't. All performers are required to provide their own costumes & props, the costumes to be made to the Entertainment Director's specifications (and he loves glitz!). None of the performers, including court who do get a clothing stipend, are paid enough to even cover the costs of their costumes. Non-period characters have also been added over the years, we have Robin Hood & Maid Marion walking around, Don Quixote, Vlad the Impalter (fortunately that was only for one year!), wizard's bumbling apprentice (think HP) and a fairy forest that was originally based on Midsummer's Night Dream but is now way off on it's own fantasy tangent. Even our court is fiction; Edward didn't die but had a son who is now King and married to a gypsy woman. sigh. There are people who do care about their costumes being as period as possible but when the management only pays lip service to trying to be period inexperienced underpaid performers tend to go the easy route. I think many of our patrons do know the difference however. Several years ago we had Jane Seymour in court and I was able to talk her into wearing a gable headdress similar to the well-known portrait. She had resisted at first, it isn't the most flattering headgear after all :), but after the first weekend she was sold on it as people *knew* who she was from haveing seen the portrait. And I do agree that rennfaires are theater, and some theatricallity is required in the costumes, I just object to the growing Disneyesque influences :). That being said, here is the performers webpage for KCRF with links to photogallerys from the current year and years past for anyone who is curious: http://www.cobrahq.com/kcrfperformers/Photo_Gallery/photo_gallery.htm Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 5 10:32:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i95EWaZs025537 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 10:32:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95EUd3x010907 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Oct 2004 08:30:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95EUV6Q031522; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 08:30:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com (outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com [64.136.20.164]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i95EUT6Q031411 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 08:30:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from outbound21-sr.nyc.untd.com (webmail13.nyc.untd.com [10.140.30.155]) by smtpout01.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABAYFM9WA6HKD52 for (sender ); Tue, 5 Oct 2004 07:30:12 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCpKe7BDSiBlaMnwtMTSN2vLObHs/woMqkA== Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by webmail13.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id J87EZQZB; Tue, 05 Oct 2004 07:30:03 PDT Received: from [4.158.21.214] by webmail13.nyc.untd.com with HTTP: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 14:29:12 GMT X-Originating-IP: [4.158.21.214] Mime-Version: 1.0 From: "seamstrix@juno.com" Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 14:29:12 GMT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Renaissance costuming dilemma X-Mailer: WebMail Version 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <20041005.073003.12675.926053@webmail13.nyc.untd.com> X-ContentStamp: 2:2:3921559315 X-MAIL-INFO: 2b4d919509900dd00d64cdf09070e464c0951d95a000d1599070e0241955455d15855d390415b5b5c1b565f9315121b9809d01a1f501bd3da10d0d84 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have been doing Bristol Faire for about 15 years now (zoiks!) most of it in the Guilde fo St. George which is the court. I know that even people who don't know what they are looking at know a good-looking costume when they see it. I get compliments on my costumes all the time, and most of them are from patrons in civvies and even the occasional chain-mail bikini wearing Faire Bunnie. All the subtlties of my dress may not be apparent to them, but they recognize a good-looking outfit when they see it. St. George does make some choices based on theatricality, but thankfully all our Guildmasters have had a very clear idea of what the Guilde should look like and it's heavily rooted in historical accuracy. Once you get a base of people who have bought the idea that being historically accurate is both possible and beautiful, you can create a groundswell that sort of carries the new folks along. You also weed out the ones that want to play the fantasy game. There's nothing wrong w! ith fantasy- but if it's not the game the group decides to play, people who don't want to go to the trouble of research (most of which we've already done!) and looking for appropriate fabrics and trim eventually just go away. But the best way to create this is to do it yourself. Lead by example. Get a few of your best costuming friends to do it with you so you become a group and not just a fluke. Share resources. Find inexpensive sources for decent fabric and decoration and talk about them! Explode the myth that the only way to do historical accuracy is to spend a fortune! But always look fabulous, be kind and helpful, and share-share-share with anyone who shows an interest. You won't get everybody, but you'll get alot! Karen (Historical Accuracy Cheerleader apparently.....) ________________________________________________________________ Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 5 11:08:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i95F8IcL025683 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 11:08:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95F3x3x014478 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Oct 2004 09:04:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95F3a6Q058093; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 09:03:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail10.mdx.safepages.com (mail10.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.33]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95F3S6Q057950 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 09:03:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail10.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 4974D206DB; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 15:03:31 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust210.tnt2.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.178.210]) by mail10.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 096C720652 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 15:03:17 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <01c101c4aaec$754c3970$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <006701c4a95e$8adfa8b0$0db00040@softwareinnovation.com><018601c4aa62$9ecc69d0$0400a8c0@compaqub> <4161F4F6.2010803@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] fur-lined dress Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 10:03:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks, all, for the suggestions. I'm a little uncomfortable using guards on this gown, since I'm going for French (forgot to mention that!) and those have such a Germanic air to them... though granted, some of the things I'm considering, like the Elizabeth of York style gold brocade/trim/whatever it is could probably be called guards! Couching and cords probably will play some part. Chris, those 2 Clouet pictures you posted are exactly the sort of thing I'd like to do... I wonder if I can justify using a male sort of decoration on a female gown. Has anyone--Cynthia, perhaps?--got a clear idea of how metallic cord from this time period was made? I've read that it would have been something like a narrow strip of gold leaf coiled around thread; I hope that's what it's like, because I can find something like that pretty easily. In fact, if I'm feeling really stubborn, I can take some silk thread and do the wrapping myself! =} (I've got a bunch of spun silk that I stupidly ordered, when I should have gotten reeled.) The metal doodads are really tempting me; I'm pretty sure either fire mountain gems or shipwreck beads have something that I could stand and afford. Catherine of Aragon has mounts on one of her gowns, too, though they're on an under layer that shows at the neckline rather than on the outer gown (similar to the Margaret Tudor's layering); I think some of the jeweled necklines are basically the same idea, as well--they're just jeweled metal doodads rather than plain metal doodads. Let me explain the motive for this gown as quickly as I can: see, I'm working on a line of clothing for sale. I'm focusing on the period from ~1375-1525 with particular focus on 1475-1510, and the styles I offer will be as provably authentic as possible, in style, materials, and seaming. On the construction side, I'm offering 2 levels of authenticity: ready-made (fitted to a few basic measurements, but not truly custom fitted) in which there will be no visible machine sewing, but in which modern construction methods and a minimum of hand-sewing are used; and custom fitted, where the garment is fitted by way of lots of measurements and a fitting-by-mail of a muslin, and the construction techniques are much more authentic and hand-stitching abounds. The gown in question now is meant to be a display piece, to show off my skill and my dedication to authenticity--and since I expect to make more money off of the accessories side, it'll be the backdrop for lots of fancy millinery, jewelry, belts, chemises both plain and ridiculously fancy, partlets, etc etc etc. The plot is for people to look at _this_ gown and say, "Wow, if she can do _this_, I bet she'll do an amazing job on _my_ much simpler garment!" Also, since my area of interest is not a particularly popular or well known area--at least not compared with say, Elizabethan--I want people to start drooling over the sorts of gowns I like to make, so that I can build up demand for my pretty little square-necked gowns. (And all the rest, of course, but the square-necked gowns are soooo pretty...) Sort of like Kimiko's hope to lure people over to the authentic side--if they see it and like it, maybe they'll want one of their own! No demand? Well, by gosh and by golly I'll MAKE demand. I found the fur after a great deal of searching at: http://www.fashionleather.com/flimerchandise/shearling/toscana/toscana.html It's the absolute best deal I could find on non-curly woolskin, and for that matter the _only_ truly thin-skinned lamb I could find. This place focuses on lamb/sheep only; if you're planning to order, do so by phone because a) you can only get the wholesale discount by phone (5%, not that great, but the price they have is already quite good) and b) their stock moves really quickly. (Also, you should order by phone to hear this guy's nifty accent--if there is a Texas part of Italy, that must be where he's from. =} ) They were out of the black Toscana when I ordered, so I had to replace it with what they called burgundy, although from the description the guy gave me, it's a very natural color rather than anything that looks dyed. ( He gave me that description before I gave him any indication of which I'd prefer, so... Lord, please let it be a good color! =}). The skins average about 4.5 sq. ft, so a bundle is NOT 75+ sq ft; I wound up ordering 18 skins in order to get the ~80 sq ft I needed. (Well, I really need more like 60, but with irregular skin shapes I expect ~20 sq ft of oddly shaped scraps.) Cynthia, I've been thinking about the problem of reducing bulk in key places, too--I won't be doing it on this gown, since I want it as provably authentic as possible, but I've come up with a few. Other than mixing types of fur, my first idea is to shear it my own self, around the waist and hips, so that the bust (hey, instant wonderbra) and skirt fur are ~1", with the tighter areas sheared down to more like 1/4". (I think I can sort of semi-justify that; paintings of square-necked gowns in the late 15thC/early 16thC suggest that the fur _is_ trimmed where it peeks out at the neckline, etc, since it's often noticeably shorter than the fur showing on the insides of the sleeves and skirt.) The second is to use fur everywhere but the torso, and use cotton velvet that matches the fur at the torso; that might be a good warm(er) weather solution, and I think that if the fur were laid right it could sort of smooth over the join well enough that it wouldn't be noticeable from the outside. -E House Liberty in Our Lifetime - www.freestateproject.org Coming Soon - http://www.seamcheckers.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 5 11:38:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i95Fcssq025800 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 11:38:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95FZm3x018256 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Oct 2004 09:35:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95FZU6Q084349; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 09:35:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.mdx.safepages.com (mail1.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95FZS6Q084307 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 09:35:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail1.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 85E0313D774; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 15:35:27 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust210.tnt2.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.178.210]) by mail1.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 5DB3513D776 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 15:35:26 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <01e101c4aaf0$f4c439b0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20041004.154553.1158.237014@webmail14.nyc.untd.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20041004163936.02015078@64.87.54.245> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renaissance costuming dilemma Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 10:35:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kimiko Small" > After pondering here a bit, I think I will push for documentation, at least > amongst those I can influence in some manner. Maybe then when people do the > research into a portrait or particular style, it might stick and they might > start looking at things in a different manner. After all, that's what this > list has helped me to do. It occurred to me that perhaps I should clarify what I meant by documentation type stuff... I don't necessarily mean walking around with a file folder of all the details documented on paper (although that'd be pretty funny. Scary how easily I can picture doing that-- great big flash cards, maybe). Instead, maybe just something subtle like "Oh, thanks for the compliment! I copied this detail from Eleanor of Toledo's dress. Had the hardest time finding the right materials for it, since everything is polyester these days..." > Thanks for playing devil's advocate. You have given me more to think about. Hee, glad to help. Funny, this post makes it seem like I'm vaguely capable of subtlety, which I ain't. -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 5 12:48:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i95GmB9C026049 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 12:48:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95GlO3x026255 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Oct 2004 10:47:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95GlK6Q044678; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 10:47:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mxv2.wvu.edu (mxv2.wvu.edu [157.182.140.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95Gkx6Q044244 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 10:47:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rdonalds@wvu.edu) Received: from WVUGW01.wvu.edu (wvugw01.wvu.edu [157.182.215.110]) by mxv2.wvu.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95Gkqw3020239 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 12:46:52 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rdonalds@wvu.edu) Received: from WVUDOM1-MTA by WVUGW01.wvu.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 05 Oct 2004 12:46:52 -0400 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 12:46:32 -0400 From: "Rhonda Donaldson" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gothic Fitted Dress and lack of uniboob Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i95Gkx6Q044244 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry for the late posting, but I saw that "What not to Wear" and I think they were actually called chickens. I know, weird... >>> gia_gavino@comcast.net 10/4/2004 2:27:59 PM >>> Greetings! What an great question! I was watching the BBC "what not to wear" show one day and they had a gal on with virtually no tits whatsoever! So, what they had were what looked like silicone inserts that she would put into her bras. Maybe someone on the list can remember what the things were actually called or perhaps the BBC webpage might have information about that particular episode on their web page. But it really gave her a bosum, and maybe this could help you get the look you are aiming for? Good luck! -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > Hello all, > > I have a question. Has anyone out there ever done a fitting on someone who > doesn't have enough, um, chest to achieve the uniboob look? I tried fitting one > on myself. It ended up being a cross between the straight front and curved front > because the initial fitting was done with a straight front and then I just > _couldn't_ get it to look right so I did the front seam by myself to achieve the > right-ish look. > > However, here's my question. No matter WHAT I did, I could not get my breasts up > and together without making the pull on my back uncomfortable. I ended up just > pushing the mass (in Robin's terms) up and calling it good. I wear a 42A, so I > think the relative broadness of my rib cage vs. the size made it difficult to > acheive the right look. > > So, was there someplace I should be compressing harder? What have other people > done in those circumstances? Or am I just not the right "Gothic super-model" > type? > --Kathy K. > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 5 12:56:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i95GufCN026099 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 12:56:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95Gtj3x027141 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Oct 2004 10:55:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95Gth6Q051710; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 10:55:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-118.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95GtT6Q051395 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 10:55:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by mail.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4C7E425D5 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 12:24:20 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4162D211.8060207@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 11:55:45 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gothic Fitted Dress and lack of uniboob References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I did a quick Google search for "silicone bra inserts" and got dozens of pages right off the top that sell exactly that. Dawn Rhonda Donaldson wrote: > Sorry for the late posting, but I saw that "What not to Wear" and I think they were actually called chickens. I know, weird... > > >>>>gia_gavino@comcast.net 10/4/2004 2:27:59 PM >>> > > Greetings! What an great question! I was watching the BBC "what not to wear" show one day and they had a gal on with virtually no tits whatsoever! So, what they had were what looked like silicone inserts that she would put into her bras. Maybe someone on the list can remember what the things were actually called or perhaps the BBC webpage might have information about that particular episode on their web page. > > But it really gave her a bosum, and maybe this could help you get the look you are aiming for? > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 5 13:58:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i95Hwo4o026399 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 13:58:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95Hva3x006031 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Oct 2004 11:57:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95HvV6Q004526; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 11:57:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95HvQ6R004420 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 11:57:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i95HshTA015662 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 13:54:43 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 05 Oct 2004 13:54:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4162E083.7060702@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 13:57:23 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] fur-lined dress References: <006701c4a95e$8adfa8b0$0db00040@softwareinnovation.com><018601c4aa62$9ecc69d0$0400a8c0@compaqub> <4161F4F6.2010803@thibault.org> <01c101c4aaec$754c3970$0400a8c0@compaqub> In-Reply-To: <01c101c4aaec$754c3970$0400a8c0@compaqub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO E House wrote: > my first idea is to shear it my own self, around the waist and hips, I betcha a beard trimmer would work for this. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent (8.) The "independent and non-partisan" Commission on Presidential Debates is neither independent nor non-partisan. Walter Cronkite called CPD-sponsored debates an 'unconscionable fraud.' -- Connie Rice, NPR _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 5 14:07:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i95I71p6026448 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 14:07:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95I693x007120 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Oct 2004 12:06:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95I646Q011583; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 12:06:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95I626R011487 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 12:06:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i95I8r8w017616 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 14:08:54 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20041005105833.00bb9410@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 11:05:56 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renaissance costuming dilemma In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20041004221611.00b13ed8@64.87.54.245> References: <11487.162.119.64.110.1096938369.squirrel@162.119.64.110> <5.2.1.1.0.20041004151614.00b13a60@64.87.54.245> <5.2.1.1.0.20041004151614.00b13a60@64.87.54.245> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO To the tune of 'Surf City' by the 'Beach Boys' We're goin' t' snark city, here we come ... We're goin' t' snark city, gonna have some fun ... Gonna snark all the Rennies, put 'em on the run ... To me, there is *ONE* and only one consideration in judging authenticity of the patrons at a Renn Faire (not SCA or reenactment groups that have garb rules). Are they enjoying themselves? They paid the entrance fee with their own money and can dress anyway they want within the rules of Society at Large (flashing isn't cool) and the specific faire (employees must meet the employer's dress code). I say what they wear is nobody's business but their own! Period! Katie At 10:22 PM 10/4/2004 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Diana, > >Thanks for everything you wrote. I can really see your points. Faire isn't >re-enactment, although some of the actors want to make it more than simply >theatre in the rough. I guess it is a bit of a battle, those who want more >history, and those who just enjoy entertaining. > >At 06:06 PM 10/4/2004 -0700, you wrote: >>And when I see someone who has clothing that might cringe at, I try to >>find what they did *right* instead of what they did *wrong*. This is also >>a good thing when someone asks your opinion about their dress/doublet. >>First say what is good about it (nice fit, lovely trim, nice neckline, >>very flattering, etc.) even if it is in flourescent orange poly/rayon >>blend. > >That is very good advice, that I try to remember. I usually hold my >tongue, but it was holding my tongue all weekend that required me to vent >in my LJ and ask advice here. > >>And try to only offer your opinion if it is asked. People don't take >>kindly to unsolicited comments on how they can improve their garb. Wait >>until they ask for help. > >I try do this as well. Last year the "noble" lady in the mu mu drove me >nuts at Hanford, then at Kearney last November she asked me for help, >which I tried to provide best I could. This year she's again in mu mu, so >I am wondering why bother. But then again, it was only one person and I >can only provide advice, not make her new outfit unpaid. > >>HTH, >> >>Diana > >Yes, it did help. Thank you again. > >Kimiko > > >Kimiko Small >Owner ~ DreamTime Studios >http://www.dreamtime-studios.com >Fresno, CA, USA > >"When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 5 14:15:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i95IFQJb026489 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 14:15:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95I96A7007507 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Oct 2004 12:14:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95Hjr6Q095216; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 11:45:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out004.verizon.net (out004pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.142]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95Hjn6Q095148 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 11:45:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kathysmassmail@verizon.net) Received: from outgoing.verizon.net ([192.168.1.4]) by out004.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20041005174547.LGMZ28868.out004.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 12:45:47 -0500 X-Mailer: Openwave WebEngine, version 2.8.12 (webedge20-101-197-20030912) From: To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Gothic Fitted Dress and lack of uniboob Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 12:45:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out004.verizon.net from [192.168.1.4] at Tue, 5 Oct 2004 12:45:47 -0500 Message-Id: <20041005174547.LGMZ28868.out004.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Laurence Olivier walked into the dressing room where Miss Leigh's breasts > were being taped together to produce cleavage for the infamous red dress. He > watched in silence for a moment, then remarked "And all this time I thought > they were perfectly lovely." Oh, that's wonderful. I love that. Thank you to everyone with insert suggestions, but I'm actually ok with the size of my chest. My husband likes them, which is what counts, and up until last year I could go without a bra. Then I started pulling muscles in my chest so I started wearing a bra at least part of each day. I was mostly concerned that I wasn't fitting my figure correctly, as opposed to getting my figure to fit the dress. Of course, others may feel differently, so it's good there is a lot of information out there! Thanks again! --Kathy K. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 5 14:26:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i95IQf8K026519 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 14:26:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95IPa3x009596 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Oct 2004 12:25:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95IPW6Q027267; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 12:25:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95IPT6Q027209 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 12:25:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F0222B934 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 13:25:28 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p610.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.213.103]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 45ACBD4B2 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 13:25:27 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Costuming dilemma Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 13:25:31 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <200410050459.i954xk6Q065418@net.indra.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In the early years of SCA, chainmail bikinis, Gore slave outfits, re vamped prom dresses and the like were a common show at many events, even in December. One winter event a woman wore a non welded/soldered chainmail bikini with no lining, the men liked it as the hall was a bit nippy. People know what they are wearing but they may not know it isn't "period". It is a judgment call on whether to approach or not. Best approach, as was said, to live by example. Because many who are new, learn by the examples presented by the old timers and rarely ask. Sometimes when asked the "old timer" thinks they are wearing "period" because when they were new they saw what "old timers were wearing and followed suit, usually rattling off the lines given to them about the so called authenticity of the outfit. Like the SCA, it will take time for the Rens to move towards being a little more "period" in their style of fashion. But remember that the Rens do not have control of everyone who is within their "lands" who wear a costume, nor the costume styles sold by the vendors. The St. Louis Ren is new and is trying every year to get the costumes more "period" It is a bit difficult when you are mid to late 1500s French. As for the Mammary Maeves, the closest you come to that style is mid to late Italian, consort or middle working class. But most of the "melons on a platter" costumes are of English design at Rens. (I wonder if the platter look is a century out of time as I seem to notice the tendency with late 1600s and 1700s a greater show of the cleavage) Rens are there to make money and provide fun. Periodness of costume only gets moved towards the top of the list if it will add to the festival. Also, if you can show that it is cheaper to have closer to the period style and less work, then you can convince a few to change. Finally, we don't know everything that was worn in an era and the farther back in time you go, the more you have to guess at possible cut, design and color. At times we get lucky and something is found to add to our knowledge. My $2 worth De -----Original Message----- I have to agree here -- most of these people are very conscious of what they are wearing. Here in Oregon, we have an SCA event every year (Egils) where we get some mundanes trying to play dress up. By this I mean faire-cows (the tits-on-a-platter style bodice), chain maille bikinis and bunny fur loin cloths. Every year, they get "talked to". The first Ren Faire in Brookings, on the coast, was full of fairy wings and Goths. I don't look at Ren Faires as anything that could or should be historically accurate as it can be a starting point for someone who in new to playing. Leading by example is the best way to convert goth-rennies into someone who cares about authenticity. Yes it is frustrating, but you can't change the world. Becky _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 5 14:43:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i95IhwFm026583 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 14:43:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95IhF3x012810 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Oct 2004 12:43:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95Ih86Q041388; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 12:43:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95Ih56Q041321 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 12:43:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D11E2CC6F for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 13:43:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p396.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.142]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 15A69D4AA for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 13:43:04 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Renaissance costuming dilemma Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 13:43:09 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -----Original Message----- That being said, here is the performers webpage for KCRF with links to photogallerys from the current year and years past for anyone who is curious: http://www.cobrahq.com/kcrfperformers/Photo_Gallery/photo_gallery.htm Catherine ~~~~~~~~~ This is just my opinion of the Spanish King's outfit but EEEWWW! what horrid material combination. The Queen's isn't bad though the ruff (name escapes me, thingy fanning at the back of her head, probably from trauma of seeing the King's outfit) could be of a thinner lace. De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 5 14:55:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i95ItPX5026648 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 14:55:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95IrM3x014078 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Oct 2004 12:53:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95IrD6Q049299; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 12:53:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95IrB6Q049257 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 12:53:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DC172C3BD for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 13:53:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p396.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.142]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 74071D4B2 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 13:53:10 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Renaissance costuming dilemma Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 13:53:15 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I would say that this is a compliment in that he was dress well enough to be mistaken for staff, assuming that this is a festival that is trying to improve historic atmosphere in the costume department, though I kind of wonder why "the boss" would have a problem with a codpiece. Did any of the male "staff" to your knowledge, wear a codpiece? De -----Original Message----- What made me crazy this weekend at Carolina Renaisssance Faire was sort of the opposite. One of the performers took my husband aside (apparently thinking he was also on staff) and said that he didn't think "the boss" would approve of what he was wearing.... [snip] The objection was to the codpiece. I do admit that I used a touch of artistic license on said codpiece and 1) used a much later pattern for it (from PoF for the Nils Sture codpiece) and 2) used a lightweight silk substitute to make puffs come out of the slashes. Said personage on staff was wearing a tudor ensemble that *should* have had a codpiece, and didn't (paned slops and doublet)...it was kind of amusing, but at the same time freaking annoying since we *paid* to get in, and I doubt seriously that he said anything to the various women wearing "cinchers" who looked like they were smuggling mangoes in their chemises. OK. I'll stop now. -Laura Loignon AKA Irmgart Hasenschlaf _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 5 15:32:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i95JWLJX026812 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 15:32:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95JLT3x017861 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Oct 2004 13:21:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95JLQ6Q071651; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 13:21:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95JLN6Q071622 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 13:21:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C08082C838 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 14:21:23 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p396.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.142]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id AAB11D4AA for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 14:21:22 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Renaissance costuming dilemma Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 14:21:27 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20041004161636.02101d88@64.87.54.245> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Perhaps mentioning that lacing allows room for change in the body more then a zipper. And it is harder to change a broken zipper than a lace. As for the snaps, it all depends on how quick of a change is needed. If speed is what you need the snaps are your answer. If not, then the ties, hook & eyes and buttons. All it takes is one example to get the ball rolling. May I recommend starting from the first layer and work your way up from there. Provide shift/chemise and shirt patterns. See about going together on a bolt of handkerchief linen for this project. Then once this is the norm or you feel the group is ready, move to the next layer for women, the corset. Some may want, due to their size, some bloomers/breeches of cotton or linen to help prevent chafing. With the men, the southern region of their body. Basically if you can make it easier for them to access and make the historic style they will more likely do it. Okay enough rambling for the day, De -----Original Message----- Hi LynnD >If you're part of a guild, you can >carefully change things from the inside, especially by offering a >well-placed, well-spoken hint here and there. I have tried that for a year now, and they aren't budging much. Our guildmistress prefers zippers hidden behind plackets, and snap in sleeves or epaulettes, to switch between Elizabethan and Henry style garments. Our members are following her lead, despite the fact I am supposedly the guild's costume mistress. However, my hint on using linen instead of cotton is starting to take a hold. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 5 15:36:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i95Jah1H026825 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 15:36:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95JZw3x019401 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Oct 2004 13:35:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95JZs6Q083480; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 13:35:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail11.mdx.safepages.com (mail11.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95JZp6Q083422 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 13:35:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id DFF88A08A9; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 19:35:54 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust210.tnt3.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.197.210]) by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id C288AA0968 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 19:35:52 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <022f01c4ab12$87c40cb0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <11487.162.119.64.110.1096938369.squirrel@162.119.64.110><5.2.1.1.0.20041004151614.00b13a60@64.87.54.245><5.2.1.1.0.20041004151614.00b13a60@64.87.54.245> <5.2.0.9.0.20041005105833.00bb9410@mail.katiesorchids.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renaissance costuming dilemma Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 14:35:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katie Pleasance" > To me, there is *ONE* and only one consideration in judging authenticity of > the patrons at a Renn Faire (not SCA or reenactment groups that have garb > rules). > Are they enjoying themselves? I have to agree, here. Someday I may want some place to wear my fun, decidedly INauthentic Pre-Raphaelite stuff! Well, ok, they're sort of authentic in that they're made with Victorian and Edwardian patterning/construction methods, but that's just because that's what I learned to sew on... -E _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 5 17:41:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i95LfoEK027906 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 17:41:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95Lf23x002540 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Oct 2004 15:41:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95Lel6Q076896; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 15:40:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95Leh6Q076682 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 15:40:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be07.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.7]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 2608047FE66 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 23:40:29 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001101c4ab23$f53f7c00$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 23:40:39 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] chenille stumpwork X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. Today i succeded trying to make the chenille thread on stumpwork. I made a small flower with chenille. You can se here: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/helms5.htm This is the very first flower i ever made in stumpwork, so i think it will be good when i have practiced a little. I couched on the chenille to the surface with another thread, and it worked. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 5 19:50:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i95NoQlk028458 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 19:50:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95Nim3x016890 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Oct 2004 17:44:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95Nib6Q062727; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 17:44:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta11.adelphia.net (mta11.adelphia.net [68.168.78.205]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95NiV6Q062614 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 17:44:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from randl@adelphia.net) Received: from adelphia.net ([69.169.181.2]) by mta11.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.02 201-2131-111-104-20040324) with ESMTP id <20041005234425.BFOF2188.mta11.adelphia.net@adelphia.net> for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 19:44:25 -0400 Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 19:44:25 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1500/1600 Lace Patterns Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: randl@adelphia.net To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <200410041803.i94I3Bvh036868@net.indra.com> Message-Id: <7D29605E-1728-11D9-9507-000393D2F36E@adelphia.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Renaissance Patterns for Lace, Embroidery and Needlepoint by Federico Vinciolo This is a Dover publication of "an unabridged facsimile of the "Singuliers et nouveaux pourtraicts" of 1587" ISBN 0-486-22438-4 Good luck with your new hobby! Laurie On Monday, October 4, 2004, at 02:03 PM, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: > Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 12:35:11 -0400 (EDT) > From: Kathy Page > Subject: [h-cost] 1500/1600 Lace Patterns > To: Historical Costume List > Message-ID: <20041004163511.96916.qmail@web50604.mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > I gave in and bought lace making supplies for both > bobbin and netted filet lace. Now I need patterns to > work from - anyone have suggestions on books to find > ca. 1500-1600 patterns? > > Thanks, > > Kathy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 5 21:33:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i961XlrP028904 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 21:33:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i961WY3x025534 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Oct 2004 19:32:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i961WV6Q023442; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 19:32:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i95Fj66Q092210 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 09:45:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gia_gavino@comcast.net) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (localhost[127.0.0.1]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with ESMTP id <20041005154501015002b074e>; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 15:45:01 +0000 Received: from 204.127.197.118 ([204.127.197.118]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <200410051539590150037e4de>; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 15:40:00 +0000 X-Comment: AT&T Maillennium special handling code - c Received: from [24.16.244.181] by 204.127.197.118; Tue, 05 Oct 2004 15:39:58 +0000 From: gia_gavino@comcast.net To: ggavino@u.washington.edu (Gia WORK), angelpie_26@hotmail.com (Lyndsay Vigil), deborah_sundblad@msn.com (Deborah Sundblad), yahoo@realmregalia.com (Kathy Realm), pgsrcoach@aol.com (Pat), pastiche@teleport.com (Pastiche), Medenagan@aol.com (Mom Morris), cathy@powerprintimages.com (Cathy Lee McKay), marnief_gaia@sbcglobal.net (Marnie), tanman97701@yahoo.com (Egar), BernardGavino@cs.com (Dad), wyewood@wyewood.org (Wyewood), aquaterratextiles@yahoogroups.com (Aquaterra Textiles), h-costume@indra.com (Costume Historical), wyeworry@yahoogroups.com (Wyeworry Fun), Reeds@baronyofaquaterra.org (Reeds Aquaterra), AnTirMerchants@yahoogroups.com (Merchants An Tir) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 15:39:58 +0000 Message-Id: <100520041539.21299.4162C04E00083C59000053332200750784010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Sep 14 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: Z2lhX2dhdmlub0Bjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 19:32:25 -0600 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] New email address X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings, I am in the process of changing my email service to Hotmail. My new email address is: elena_4557@hotmail.com Thank you for you updating your address book! Gia -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 5 21:52:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i961qXQq028975 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 21:52:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i961q13x027215 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Oct 2004 19:52:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i961pw6Q033855; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 19:51:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i961pj6Q033703 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 19:51:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id C914151DDB for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 18:51:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041005182732.020a5f28@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 18:29:44 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Renaissance costuming dilemma In-Reply-To: <20041005.073003.12675.926053@webmail13.nyc.untd.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 02:29 PM 10/5/2004 +0000, you wrote: >But the best way to create this is to do it yourself. Lead by example. Get >a few of your best costuming friends to do it with you so you become a >group and not just a fluke. Share resources. Find inexpensive sources for >decent fabric and decoration and talk about them! Explode the myth that >the only way to do historical accuracy is to spend a fortune! But always >look fabulous, be kind and helpful, and share-share-share with anyone who >shows an interest. You won't get everybody, but you'll get alot! Thank you. After reading and taking in everything people have shared on this list, I plan on doing just what you described. I know it will take time and effort, but I believe it is worth improving the faires I am a part of. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 5 21:52:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i961qrWZ028979 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 21:52:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i961qL3x027280 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Oct 2004 19:52:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i961qK6Q034043; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 19:52:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i961pj6Q033704 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 19:51:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48B0951DEF for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 18:51:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041005183014.020aebb8@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 18:51:19 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renaissance costuming dilemma In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20041005105833.00bb9410@mail.katiesorchids.com> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20041004221611.00b13ed8@64.87.54.245> <11487.162.119.64.110.1096938369.squirrel@162.119.64.110> <5.2.1.1.0.20041004151614.00b13a60@64.87.54.245> <5.2.1.1.0.20041004151614.00b13a60@64.87.54.245> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:05 AM 10/5/2004 -0700, you wrote: >To me, there is *ONE* and only one consideration in judging authenticity >of the patrons at a Renn Faire (not SCA or reenactment groups that have >garb rules). > >Are they enjoying themselves? > >They paid the entrance fee with their own money and can dress anyway they >want within the rules of Society at Large (flashing isn't cool) and the >specific faire (employees must meet the employer's dress code). > >I say what they wear is nobody's business but their own! > >Period! Hi Katie, I fully agree that customers who have payed their gate fees, if any, should wear whatever they want. We have had Klingons, Star Trek personnel, Gandalf the Great, Goths, fantasy knights, wannabe vampires, and many anime characters over the years. They are not part of a guild or group that has signed a contract stating they are to wear Tudor appropriate garments or be removed from the faire. Hanford Faire is actually a FREE event, so anyone can wander through wearing whatever they please, if they are not part of a guild or vendor booth. That's fine with me, because I have seen and helped bring many of these people into faire as an historical character. My dear friend who portrays the Queen at REC South went to her first faire as a fairy, and is now dressed in the finest gown a Queen could wear. My comments have to do with the ACTORS who as a member of a guild (we use guild system in California) signed a contract to the faire board to wear Tudor appropriate garb. Even our vendors are to wear Tudor appropriate garb and have appropriate booth coverings (wood, canvas, nothing modern looking). Winged Fairies in two vendor booths are not Tudor appropriate, period. Wearing modern nike running shoes, or fluffy bedroom slippers are not Tudor appropriate. Neither is wearing paned slops, tall hats, or Elizabethan ruffs as per the event rules. Our event is a Henry VIII time period event. The guilds according to the contract they signed with the faire boards state they understand the rules and agree to abide by them. However, no one is checking on people, and no one in the faire board seems to care that some people in the King's court are dressed worse than a basic peasant. That's what's gotten to me after all these years. My basic motto about faire is "If it isn't fun, don't do it." I left faire a few years ago because it quit being fun. I came back for other reasons, and for a time it was fun. In some ways it still is. My questions stemmed from wondering if this was still fun for me from a costuming standpoint, or if what bothered me was me beating my head against the wall. I am thankful for many of the comments of the people on this list for giving me hope that by inspiration, not browbeating, I may be able to help some people at faire achieve a greater level in their costumes than their current comfort level. Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 5 21:53:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i961qv5l028986 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 21:53:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i961qS3x027304 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Oct 2004 19:52:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i961qS6Q034151; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 19:52:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i961pj6Q033702 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 19:51:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F3F951DD3 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 18:51:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041005182034.020b4468@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 18:26:37 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Renaissance costuming dilemma In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:07 AM 10/5/2004 -0500, you wrote: >There are people who do care about their costumes being as period as >possible but when the management only pays lip service to trying to be >period inexperienced underpaid performers tend to go the easy route. At least you get paid something. Our small faire actors do not generally get paid, unless they do stage shows. That is probably another reason for the do what one will attitude, because they aren't getting paid to be appropriate. >And I do agree that rennfaires are theater, and some theatricallity is >required in the costumes, I just object to the growing Disneyesque >influences :). I can understand theatrical things in renaissance costumes, especially hidden things that make wearing the heavy garments in the summer heat more bearable. And I agree that the Disneyesque or fantasy approach of faire just makes it difficult to care or even continue. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 5 21:59:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i961xJod029013 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 21:59:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i961qX3x027324 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Oct 2004 19:52:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i961qW6Q034190; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 19:52:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i961pj6Q033698 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 19:51:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FF2251D67 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 18:51:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041005175018.00b14028@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 18:15:51 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renaissance costuming dilemma In-Reply-To: <01e101c4aaf0$f4c439b0$0400a8c0@compaqub> References: <20041004.154553.1158.237014@webmail14.nyc.untd.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20041004163936.02015078@64.87.54.245> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:35 AM 10/5/2004 -0500, you wrote: >It occurred to me that perhaps I should clarify what I meant by >documentation type stuff... I don't necessarily mean walking around with a >file folder of all the details documented on paper (although that'd be >pretty funny. Scary how easily I can picture doing that-- great big flash >cards, maybe). Instead, maybe just something subtle like "Oh, thanks for the >compliment! I copied this detail from Eleanor of Toledo's dress. Had the >hardest time finding the right materials for it, since everything is >polyester these days..." I actually brought documentation to faire once for a radically different Irish bard's outfit than is normally seen at faire, but that was for my friend to share with his friends as to why we went the way we did. But what I was thinking was for the people in my guild who want to create new garb to actually look up the images themselves and look at them closely, then bring that to me for approval, before making their first sketch or cutting any material. We tend to come up with grand ideas based on other faire garments or on older patterns that aren't appropriate (but available and cheap), and that is where we are going askew. I would love for the people to tell me they want to make Eleanor of Toledo's dress, or as I did base my dress on Jane Seymour's gown, and share that with people. And talk about hard finding a mesh that isn't a modern mesh... but that was before the Internet made finding better materials possible. Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 5 22:10:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i962ArBQ029057 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 22:10:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i962AH3x028848 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Oct 2004 20:10:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i962AE6Q043905; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 20:10:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i962AB6R043882 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 20:10:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i962DC8w022546 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 22:13:13 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20041005190327.00bb9410@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 19:10:08 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renaissance costuming dilemma In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20041005183014.020aebb8@64.87.54.245> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20041005105833.00bb9410@mail.katiesorchids.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20041004221611.00b13ed8@64.87.54.245> <11487.162.119.64.110.1096938369.squirrel@162.119.64.110> <5.2.1.1.0.20041004151614.00b13a60@64.87.54.245> <5.2.1.1.0.20041004151614.00b13a60@64.87.54.245> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If they have signed a contract regarding appropriate attire, their inappropriate costumes should be brought up with faire management. If management chooses to ignore people who break their contract, they will discover that failure to enforce one contract provision often results in disregard of other contract provisions. If management chooses not to enforce the contract, that's their privilege. Once it has been brought to management's attention, it is management's problem and no longer yours. If you don't like it, you are free to work other faires. As far as I'm concerned it is not your position to try to enforce costume requirements on others, including those who's costume doesn't meet contract standards. You will just make enemies. As always, my opinion Katie At 06:51 PM 10/5/2004 -0700, you wrote: >At 11:05 AM 10/5/2004 -0700, you wrote: >>To me, there is *ONE* and only one consideration in judging authenticity >>of the patrons at a Renn Faire (not SCA or reenactment groups that have >>garb rules). >> >>Are they enjoying themselves? >> >>They paid the entrance fee with their own money and can dress anyway they >>want within the rules of Society at Large (flashing isn't cool) and the >>specific faire (employees must meet the employer's dress code). >> >>I say what they wear is nobody's business but their own! >> >>Period! > > >Hi Katie, > >I fully agree that customers who have payed their gate fees, if any, >should wear whatever they want. We have had Klingons, Star Trek personnel, >Gandalf the Great, Goths, fantasy knights, wannabe vampires, and many >anime characters over the years. They are not part of a guild or group >that has signed a contract stating they are to wear Tudor appropriate >garments or be removed from the faire. Hanford Faire is actually a FREE >event, so anyone can wander through wearing whatever they please, if they >are not part of a guild or vendor booth. That's fine with me, because I >have seen and helped bring many of these people into faire as an >historical character. My dear friend who portrays the Queen at REC South >went to her first faire as a fairy, and is now dressed in the finest gown >a Queen could wear. > >My comments have to do with the ACTORS who as a member of a guild (we use >guild system in California) signed a contract to the faire board to wear >Tudor appropriate garb. Even our vendors are to wear Tudor appropriate >garb and have appropriate booth coverings (wood, canvas, nothing modern >looking). Winged Fairies in two vendor booths are not Tudor appropriate, >period. Wearing modern nike running shoes, or fluffy bedroom slippers are >not Tudor appropriate. Neither is wearing paned slops, tall hats, or >Elizabethan ruffs as per the event rules. Our event is a Henry VIII time >period event. The guilds according to the contract they signed with the >faire boards state they understand the rules and agree to abide by them. >However, no one is checking on people, and no one in the faire board seems >to care that some people in the King's court are dressed worse than a >basic peasant. That's what's gotten to me after all these years. > >My basic motto about faire is "If it isn't fun, don't do it." I left faire >a few years ago because it quit being fun. I came back for other reasons, >and for a time it was fun. In some ways it still is. My questions stemmed >from wondering if this was still fun for me from a costuming standpoint, >or if what bothered me was me beating my head against the wall. > >I am thankful for many of the comments of the people on this list for >giving me hope that by inspiration, not browbeating, I may be able to help >some people at faire achieve a greater level in their costumes than their >current comfort level. > >Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 6 01:22:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i965MEZt029654 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 01:22:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i965GK3x012303 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Oct 2004 23:16:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i965GC6Q035515; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 23:16:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from asmtp-a063f31.pas.sa.earthlink.net (asmtp-a063f31.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.120.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i965G96Q035485 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 23:16:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-4.155.21.243.dial1.baltimore1.level3.net ([4.155.21.243] helo=HELENPINTO) by asmtp-a063f31.pas.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CF49o-0000Qs-OF for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 05 Oct 2004 22:16:09 -0700 Message-ID: <00c301c4ab63$92a4c380$f3159b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gothic Fitted Dress and lack of uniboob Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 01:15:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb702e37df12b9c9efb3748e849ec1ae385549851a2120cbac350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.155.21.243 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Sorry for the late posting, but I saw that "What not to Wear" and I think they were actually called chickens. I know, weird... Not chickens, chicken cutlets. That's what they look like. Really. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 6 01:57:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i965vtMi029783 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 01:57:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i965vP3x014453 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Oct 2004 23:57:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i965vK6Q054308; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 23:57:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i965vI6Q054244 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 23:57:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lauren.walker@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (h0006255ec5ea.ne.client2.attbi.com[66.31.43.36]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <20041006055712015003as09e>; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 05:57:12 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 01:56:07 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renaissance costuming dilemma From: Lauren Walker To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <022f01c4ab12$87c40cb0$0400a8c0@compaqub> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am sorry to sound dreadful, as I can hear from several posts in this thread that there ARE renn faires where people are trying to create something authentic and true to period. But I have to say most of the faires I have been to have resembled to a greater or lesser degree the Renaissance Shopping Mall. Is there any way to tell in advance whether a Faire is going to be relatively good or relatively bad? I also want to respond to the craving for a pre-Raphe faire. I have decided my essential "period" is: Victorians playing at medieval. Maybe we should organize the pre-Raphaelite ball in some fine old Gothic revivial house somewhere. Unless there already is one? Lauren > From: "E House" > I have to agree, here. Someday I may want some place to wear my fun, > decidedly INauthentic Pre-Raphaelite stuff! Well, ok, they're sort of > authentic in that they're made with Victorian and Edwardian > patterning/construction methods, but that's just because that's what I > learned to sew on... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 6 02:34:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i966YubQ009179 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 02:34:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i966YA3x016648 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Oct 2004 00:34:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i966Y66Q071004; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 00:34:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i966Y36Q070947 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 00:34:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E9B810B11 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 23:34:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041005232009.00b14158@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 23:25:32 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: RE: [h-cost] Renaissance costuming dilemma In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.1.1.0.20041004161636.02101d88@64.87.54.245> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi De, At 02:21 PM 10/5/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Perhaps mentioning that lacing allows room for change in the body more then >a zipper. And it is harder to change a broken zipper than a lace. She has been complaining of fit lately, so that is a good idea. >As for the snaps, it all depends on how quick of a change is needed. If >speed is what you need the snaps are your answer. If not, then the ties, >hook & eyes and buttons. It isn't for a quick change, but simply to change, between large tudor sleeves to elizabethan ones for the weekend, or even just to add on epaulettes instead of any sleeve (that one I don't quite follow). I created two separate bodices with one skirt, but I am realizing that two different gowns would actually work better. >All it takes is one example to get the ball rolling. I am hoping to provide the example, but she has more weight, since she plays our Queen at Elizabethan events. But she does listen to my suggestions, so maybe over the course of the winter when we all start working on next year's garb. >May I recommend starting from the first layer and work your way up from >there. >Provide shift/chemise and shirt patterns. >See about going together on a bolt of handkerchief linen for this project. >Then once this is the norm or you feel the group is ready, move to the next >layer for women, the corset. Some may want, due to their size, some >bloomers/breeches of cotton or linen to help prevent chafing. With the men, >the southern region of their body. >Basically if you can make it easier for them to access and make the historic >style they will more likely do it. Thanks for some great suggestions. We all were chatting how our old chemises need replacing, and they are interested in getting linen for their next ones, so I will make that bolt of linen offer and work on the patterns for new chemises. Then see how it goes from there. >Okay enough rambling for the day, >De Thanks De for your ramblings. I appreciate them. Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 6 03:16:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i967GrG7024251 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 03:16:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i967GM3x020273 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Oct 2004 01:16:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i967G5TW009390; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 01:16:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.mdx.safepages.com (mail1.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i967G2TW009327 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 01:16:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail1.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 30FA613D696; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 07:15:59 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust55.tnt1.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.148.55]) by mail1.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 164B613D5EA for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 07:15:53 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <028101c4ab74$58923770$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renaissance costuming dilemma Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 02:15:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Not to my knowledge, but there is a pre-raph garb yahoo group that's depressingly inactive: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PreRaphaeliteGarb/ -E ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lauren Walker" > I also want to respond to the craving for a pre-Raphe faire. I have decided > my essential "period" is: Victorians playing at medieval. Maybe we should > organize the pre-Raphaelite ball in some fine old Gothic revivial house > somewhere. Unless there already is one? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 6 03:19:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i967JUHZ024570 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 03:19:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i967Iv3x020438 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Oct 2004 01:18:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i967IvTW010579; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 01:18:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i967HhTW010041 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 01:17:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB04FAF54 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 23:55:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041005233803.02099f20@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 23:55:59 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] beaded girdles (Tudor/Elizabethan) In-Reply-To: <1f6.2ddeb9.2e9350a8@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:19 PM 10/4/2004 -0400, you wrote: >Of course stringing the beads on cords would be much quicker, but I >have these nightmare visions of a certain four year old yanking mommy's >chain >and a couple of hundred of beads flying everywhere, unless they are >individually knotted, which I also know how to do. Hi Kimberley, I was also hoping that someone else much more knowledgeable than I would answer your question. But I am willing to give it a go. I am also planning on making a beaded girdle, and have been scratching my head as well on how it can be done. Looking at Jane Seymour's gown, and Catherine Parr's (formerly Jane Grey) gown, it looks more like beading on a cord. I need better images than I have found online, so I will need to scan in a couple of book images to get better details. The modern beads on eye wire however doesn't look like the portraits, but then again the portraits don't usually show any means of attachment on the carcanets or the gold & precious stones on the upper parts of the bodice either. I have seen at faire the girdles done with rattail cord and silk cord. I have seen girdles sewn onto a backing of felt. I have also seen Christmas ornamental strands as well (they do not last more than a day, usually). Silk is strong, so children pulling on them will have to pull hard to break multiple silk strands. If you go with silk strands, I would suggest knotting each group of beads, so if they do come undone, only a few beads will fall. I have also been told to use nylon beading threads as they are strong, and it does kinda look like silk strands. However, I have a toddler and he pulls hard, so I may go with the modern beading wire to survive the efforts of my son to pull the darn thing apart. I know it isn't period accurate, but it has to survive my son. He loves yanking all my sparklies. I wish I had more info to share with you. Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 6 04:57:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i968vPRh022600 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 04:57:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i968u73x006308 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Oct 2004 02:56:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i968u4TW050023; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 02:56:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grunt11.ihug.co.nz (grunt11.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i968u2TW049918 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 02:56:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from p101-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.192.101] by grunt11.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CF7aR-0004dR-00; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 21:55:51 +1300 Message-ID: <007701c4ab82$46e72c70$65c0adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3B4E@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gothic Fitted Dress and lack of uniboob Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 21:55:48 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Shouldn't it be the other way around - fit the lining to give you the > correct shape and hold the shape and have the outer fabric over that to > give the pretty outer look of the garment? The lining won't give the right shape to cut the main fabric from is the problem. I will never find a natural fabric with the same lack of stretch the main fabric does. DO the pattern won't be the same. What is likely to be the best way is to treat the two layers as one, or else the lining will not match the main fabric at all. I mean.. at all. I think a heavy poly organza might work as a substitute muslin to know how to cut this stuff first. It's no use fitting a really nice lining then not being able to get the main fabric to work with it. And it seriously won't. Trust me on this. I have the fabric, I know how to cut for my shape (which needs bugger all support) and I've tried this sort of thing before with not very pretty results doign the lining first then the outer fabric. I will probbaly wind up with something like the Golden Gown which was a slip on thing and not likely to have been made to be terribly fitted. (and I saw on video a reconstruction of it... wow did it look heavy;) ) It all depends on how it all works together. michaela de bruce http://glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 6 06:35:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i96AZZmx029783 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 06:35:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i96AZ13x011214 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Oct 2004 04:35:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i96AYtTW086579; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 04:34:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from alpha2.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (alpha2.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.0.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i96AYqTW086466 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 04:34:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 11:34:38 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: RE: [h-cost] Gothic Fitted Dress and lack of uniboob To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3B5F@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Gothic Fitted Dress and lack of uniboob Thread-Index: AcSrBbs5eJ00fp+iRUeJ2xAcO283ZgAii47Q content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.20 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Sorry for the late posting, but I saw that "What not to Wear" > and I think they were actually called chickens. I know, weird... "Chicken fillets" becasue they look like skinless chicken fillets available plastic wrapped in supermarkets. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 6 08:04:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i96C4FYJ030063 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 08:04:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i96C3Z3x015743 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Oct 2004 06:03:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i96C3WTW023433; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 06:03:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (e-smtp.socket.net [216.106.88.132]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i96C3UTW023396 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 06:03:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB3C82BF0C for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 07:03:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p547.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.213.40]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 91938C481 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 07:03:25 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] beaded girdles (Tudor/Elizabethan) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 07:03:32 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20041005233803.02099f20@64.87.54.245> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I would recommend the beading nylon. There are at least 4 thread sizes, ooo is the thinnest. Go for the thickest thread that will allow 2 threads and a needle to go through the bead. It is your judgment call on whether you double the thread or have a single strand. You could knot after every bead, every other bead or however many beads you wouldn't mind loosing if the strand was broken. If your beads are regular pearl size then you might want to consider some gold filigree beads to cover the knots. I do not recommend the wire as with both the beading nylon and the wire, they have their breaking point. If the child achieves breakage, there is a greater chance of injure with the wire then with the nylon. I have seen a situation were a child broke a wire strand necklace, somehow the wire cut the child. I do not know the ratio of children cut by wire due to breakage so I do not know how great the possibility is. I am just saying this can happen with wire. By the way, you do not want the ooo thread unless your working with sizes 16 - 20 beads. Also, if you have a powwow nearby you might want to check it out as you can get some good deals on beads. When I went to powwows there was a trader who sold bead hanks for $2 and $3 depending on the type. A hank is usually an equivalent to 2 of the seed bead vials at hobby lobby. Just an idea that I suggested to someone with similar concerns, get a used or new cat collar that has the special release clasp and use the clasp on the collar as the clasp of the girdle in which it would connect in the back of the costume. This allows the girdle as a whole to come off in one piece before breakage (this does not come with a 100% guarantee). Finally, there is a company that makes braided beading thread, Beadsmith. They have two thread, one tested for 10lbs. and the other 20lbs. I have not used this probduct so I don't know the pros and cons other than the trying to prevent unraveling of the braid. De -----Original Message----- At 09:19 PM 10/4/2004 -0400, you wrote: >Of course stringing the beads on cords would be much quicker, but I >have these nightmare visions of a certain four year old yanking mommy's >chain >and a couple of hundred of beads flying everywhere, unless they are >individually knotted, which I also know how to do. Hi Kimberley, I was also hoping that someone else much more knowledgeable than I would answer your question. But I am willing to give it a go. I am also planning on making a beaded girdle, and have been scratching my head as well on how it can be done. Looking at Jane Seymour's gown, and Catherine Parr's (formerly Jane Grey) gown, it looks more like beading on a cord. I need better images than I have found online, so I will need to scan in a couple of book images to get better details. The modern beads on eye wire however doesn't look like the portraits, but then again the portraits don't usually show any means of attachment on the carcanets or the gold & precious stones on the upper parts of the bodice either. I have seen at faire the girdles done with rattail cord and silk cord. I have seen girdles sewn onto a backing of felt. I have also seen Christmas ornamental strands as well (they do not last more than a day, usually). Silk is strong, so children pulling on them will have to pull hard to break multiple silk strands. If you go with silk strands, I would suggest knotting each group of beads, so if they do come undone, only a few beads will fall. I have also been told to use nylon beading threads as they are strong, and it does kinda look like silk strands. However, I have a toddler and he pulls hard, so I may go with the modern beading wire to survive the efforts of my son to pull the darn thing apart. I know it isn't period accurate, but it has to survive my son. He loves yanking all my sparklies. I wish I had more info to share with you. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 6 09:33:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i96DX1SG030398 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 09:33:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i96DVQ3x021429 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Oct 2004 07:31:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i96DVMTW064287; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 07:31:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i96DVJTW064181 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 07:31:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 08:31:12 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 08:31:03 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Renaissance costuming dilemma X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is just my opinion of the Spanish King's outfit but EEEWWW! what horrid material combination. The Queen's isn't bad though the ruff (name escapes me, thingy fanning at the back of her head, probably from trauma of seeing the King's outfit) could be of a thinner lace. De >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ROFTL! All materials, and trim, and accessories, had to be approved by the aforementioned Entertainment Director, who was probably a magpie in his last life :). He also likes his 'couples' each year to match like salt & pepper shakers. I think this is a theatricality but got very expensive for performers that got cast as new members of the Royal Family this year. The Royals all had matching costumes from last year, and then all had to make new ones this year too, so new members had to make 2 court costumes. The Spanish Queen is a talented costumer (http://www.yosa.com/) and did a very good job with her costume (can you see the 2 large pockets on the skirt?). It also had to have one shoulder breakaway at the end of the day as part of this year's scenario plot. Her usual costuming style is more Victorian and she made a real effort to be closer to late 16th century style. We just finished our 5th weekend and the costume is holding up beautifully, always one of my tests :). Most performers at KCRF do not get paid anything until their 2nd or 3rd year participating and even then it barely covers gas to and fro during the run of faire. Yes, Royals get paid a little more but when my husband was King we were lucky I could do his costume as it usually barely covered his fabric, trim & accessories. Part of the reason he decided not to do it anymore was the new-costume-every-bloody-year policy of the ED. How many Henry VIII outfits can one man have after all! He decided to stop at 5 :) :). Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 6 09:36:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i96Da1NG030418 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 09:36:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i96DYR3x021659 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Oct 2004 07:34:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i96DYPTW066103; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 07:34:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mx6.wvu.edu (mx6.wvu.edu [157.182.140.68]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i96DYMTW066010 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 07:34:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rdonalds@wvu.edu) Received: from WVUGW01.wvu.edu (wvugw01.wvu.edu [157.182.215.110]) by mx6.wvu.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i96DYDsK017232 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 09:34:14 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rdonalds@wvu.edu) Received: from WVUDOM1-MTA by WVUGW01.wvu.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 09:34:13 -0400 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 09:33:38 -0400 From: "Rhonda Donaldson" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gothic Fitted Dress and lack of uniboob Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO that's it, chicken cutlets. Thank you! >>> hpinto@mindspring.com 10/6/2004 1:15:55 AM >>> > Sorry for the late posting, but I saw that "What not to Wear" and I think they were actually called chickens. I know, weird... Not chickens, chicken cutlets. That's what they look like. Really. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 6 09:36:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i96DaHXT030425 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 09:36:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i96DZl3x021835 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Oct 2004 07:35:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i96DZcTW066802; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 07:35:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i96DYZTW066133 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 07:34:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 08:34:27 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 08:34:16 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 804 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I seem to be missing several Digests; 799, 800, 801, 802 & 803 If anyone still has them and could forward them to me I would appreciate it. Thanks, Catherine ckinsey@kumc.edu _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 6 10:48:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i96EmJCt031852 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 10:48:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i96EgT3x027351 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Oct 2004 08:42:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i96EgOTW010281; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 08:42:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i96EgLTW010172 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 08:42:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from ches (c-24-1-84-130.client.comcast.net[24.1.84.130]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2004100614421501100k93r5e>; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 14:42:16 +0000 Message-ID: <0ba501c4abb2$a92e2ac0$6d00a8c0@ches> From: "Chiara" To: References: Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 09:42:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: h-costume Subject: [h-cost] Re: [SCA-Garb] Janet Arnold - "biography of the day" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Which portrait is that behind her in the photo? Also, does anyone know of a painting of Queen Elizabeth in the armour she wore when she greeting the Spanish Armada's? Or images of that armour? Chiara `°ş¤ř,¸¸,ř¤ş°` ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Morgan" To: "Tines of the Trident" ; "Merry Rose" ; ; Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 9:29 AM Subject: [SCA-Garb] Janet Arnold - "biography of the day" : : I'm subscribed to Oxford's "Biography of the Day" and look who popped up : this morning: : : http://www.oxforddnb.com/public/lotw/1.html : : : Hro?ny : -- : Dame Hro?ny Rognvaldsdottir, OP, OL : Great Dark Horde, Barony of Marinus : Misericordia Fortitudo Suprema Est : nothingbutadame@inthe.sca.org : : : : : ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> : Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. : Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! : http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/LmiolB/TM : --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> : : Helpful email addresses: : Subscribe: SCA-Garb-subscribe@yahoogroups.com : Unsubscribe: SCA-Garb-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com : : Main group web page: : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Garb : : Yahoo! Groups Links : : <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Garb/ : : <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: : SCA-Garb-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com : : <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: : http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ : : : _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 6 11:21:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i96FL4hJ032160 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 11:21:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i96FKG3x001448 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Oct 2004 09:20:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i96FK5TW039294; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 09:20:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i96FK0TX039088 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 09:20:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i96FHDTA021198 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 11:17:13 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 11:17:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <41640D1C.80006@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 11:19:56 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Janet Arnold - "biography of the day" References: <0ba501c4abb2$a92e2ac0$6d00a8c0@ches> In-Reply-To: <0ba501c4abb2$a92e2ac0$6d00a8c0@ches> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And the article mentions "a fourth volume of Patterns of Fashion (forthcoming)" Have there been any details released about this? -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent (8.) The "independent and non-partisan" Commission on Presidential Debates is neither independent nor non-partisan. Walter Cronkite called CPD-sponsored debates an 'unconscionable fraud.' -- Connie Rice, NPR _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 6 11:32:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i96FWlXW032269 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 11:32:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i96FW13x003074 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Oct 2004 09:32:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i96FVwTW049665; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 09:31:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com (outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com [64.136.20.164]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i96FVsTW049538 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 09:31:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from outbound21-sr.nyc.untd.com (webmail17.nyc.untd.com [10.140.30.159]) by smtpout03.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABAYJD7SAGGLHDJ for (sender ); Wed, 6 Oct 2004 08:30:56 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VChctVlYUmIlaLyjV8rjk9MQ4qTljAvrEJA== Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by webmail17.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id J894UYCD; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 08:30:24 PDT Received: from [4.158.153.65] by webmail17.nyc.untd.com with HTTP: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 15:29:45 GMT X-Originating-IP: [4.158.153.65] Mime-Version: 1.0 From: "seamstrix@juno.com" Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 15:29:45 GMT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Janet Arnold - "biography of the day" X-Mailer: WebMail Version 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <20041006.083024.28482.244501@webmail17.nyc.untd.com> X-ContentStamp: 5:2:1436359411 X-MAIL-INFO: 30b928eda9355db995a971a8d8ad612855a84861e5c89561c971d9916591c11c096815915dd55d59c59c3c0925c578153909d57885e58c78fc7d6c450545798d4c6529450c580c08bd1d184cf9bd9929984c5899ad85280558bc8191819d7cdcbcd9a99ddd05090518950dd8bcd9a84de5d57dd519456519452d21452d214d48688915b55d4c5dc5eccc09255d556d58993599cd75b9cd759d7c759da5a85cbcf5d1ddf595f8d1d8d8c8d8f9002c4c9dc17148b5594db5681c5969699c X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The fourth volume is supposed to be shirts and chemises (if I remember correctly) and while I've heard rumors that it's either out or about to come out, I haven't seen it yet myself. Karen -- Cynthia Virtue wrote: And the article mentions "a fourth volume of Patterns of Fashion (forthcoming)" Have there been any details released about this? -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent (8.) The "independent and non-partisan" Commission on Presidential Debates is neither independent nor non-partisan. Walter Cronkite called CPD-sponsored debates an 'unconscionable fraud.' -- Connie Rice, NPR _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________ Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 6 11:33:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i96FXcNk032274 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 11:33:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i96FRX3x002511 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Oct 2004 09:27:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i96FRSTW045696; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 09:27:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com (outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com [64.136.20.164]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i96FRMTW045551 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 09:27:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from outbound21-sr.nyc.untd.com (webmail17.nyc.untd.com [10.140.30.159]) by smtpout05.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABAYJDX5AVTXA5J for (sender ); Wed, 6 Oct 2004 08:26:51 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VChctVlYUmIlaGtY317T2tZE/dXNrtrRthw== Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by webmail17.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id J894MDB9; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 08:26:15 PDT Received: from [4.158.153.65] by webmail17.nyc.untd.com with HTTP: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 15:25:45 GMT X-Originating-IP: [4.158.153.65] Mime-Version: 1.0 From: "seamstrix@juno.com" Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 15:25:45 GMT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: [SCA-Garb] Janet Arnold - "biography of the day" X-Mailer: WebMail Version 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <20041006.082615.28482.244471@webmail17.nyc.untd.com> X-ContentStamp: 10:5:294691548 X-MAIL-INFO: 559eeb8baeeeea176e17e35f7aeb03b32fee7f6757ce47ce07d7022f2a8f4b7fbf0367971fa7833fbb6363c3fa8a936b8af36b736a8b0bf3beaa5a9f07371eafd3dbfab76e6ee727cefe0ace7f0ad71b4703 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks for the link to the biography, it's very informative! I have no idea what the portrait is behind her, but the style of the hand strikes me as 17th century....could be way off on that..... There aren't any portraits of Elizabeth wearing armor, or if there are they are moldering away in some castle attic. During years of research on Elizabethan costume and a recent concentration on Elizabeth herself, I haven't found any published portraits with armor. I'm sure if one existed, it would be known of at least, and Janet probably would have published it in QE Unlock'd or Roy Strong would have put it in his book which does nothing but trace the evolution of Elizabeth's image in her portraits. The only images I've seen are later artwork depicting her in armor at Tilbury in a very romantic way. I doubt she had a personal set of armor, being female and all, but she had an extensive royal collection to borrow from- maybe she used one of her father's old cuirasses or one of Edward's. She could have also borrowed one from a courtier. There is a set of armor at Windsor Castle which is now the official armor of the Queen's Champion but was originally that of one of Elizabeth! 's Favorites- Sir Christopher Hatton. Karen -- "Chiara" wrote: Which portrait is that behind her in the photo? Also, does anyone know of a painting of Queen Elizabeth in the armour she wore when she greeting the Spanish Armada's? Or images of that armour? Chiara `°ş¤ř,¸¸,ř¤ş°` ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Morgan" To: "Tines of the Trident" ; "Merry Rose" ; ; Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 9:29 AM Subject: [SCA-Garb] Janet Arnold - "biography of the day" : : I'm subscribed to Oxford's "Biography of the Day" and look who popped up : this morning: : : http://www.oxforddnb.com/public/lotw/1.html : : : Hro?ny : -- : Dame Hro?ny Rognvaldsdottir, OP, OL : Great Dark Horde, Barony of Marinus : Misericordia Fortitudo Suprema Est : nothingbutadame@inthe.sca.org : : : : : ------------------------ Yahoo! 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Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 6 11:44:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i96FiVB1032334 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 11:44:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i96Fhi3x004305 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Oct 2004 09:43:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i96FhYTW059040; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 09:43:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.254.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i96FhSTW058945 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 09:43:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 16:42:02 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gothic Fitted Dress and lack of uniboob To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3B64@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Gothic Fitted Dress and lack of uniboob Thread-Index: AcSrs8b0MVup60zFRoKL2zMqwGyxHwABvTjQ content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.20 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Shouldn't it be the other way around - fit the lining to give you the > > correct shape and hold the shape and have the outer fabric over that > > to give the pretty outer look of the garment? > > The lining won't give the right shape to cut the main fabric > from is the problem. I will never find a natural fabric with > the same lack of stretch the main fabric does. SO the pattern > won't be the same. Bugger! What a nuisance! > It all depends on how it all works together. Good luck! Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 6 11:52:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i96FqvDj032385 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 11:52:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i96Fq73x005354 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Oct 2004 09:52:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i96Fq3TW065976; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 09:52:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-01-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (ms-smtp-01-smtplb.ohiordc.rr.com [65.24.5.135]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i96FpwTW065899 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 09:52:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ailith@neo.rr.com) Received: from duncan (dhcp024-209-056-164.neo.rr.com [24.209.56.164]) by ms-smtp-01-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id i96Fpmlw016665 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 11:51:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <045e01c4abbc$605e2340$1902a8c0@duncan> From: "ailith" To: "Historical Costume" References: <0ba501c4abb2$a92e2ac0$6d00a8c0@ches> <41640D1C.80006@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Janet Arnold - "biography of the day" Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 11:51:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From an old h-costume posting: *snip* "the new volume will be published by Macmillan as part of the existing series of "Patterns of Fashion", but that we > should not expect to see it until late 2004 or early 2005." It's supposed to be on linens--shirts, coifs, ruffs, collars, etc. That's all that I remember. Anyone have any newer info? kate ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia Virtue" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 11:19 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Janet Arnold - "biography of the day" > And the article mentions "a fourth volume of Patterns of Fashion > (forthcoming)" Have there been any details released about this? > > -- > Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent > > (8.) The "independent and non-partisan" Commission on Presidential > Debates is neither independent nor non-partisan. Walter Cronkite called > CPD-sponsored debates an 'unconscionable fraud.' -- Connie Rice, NPR > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 6 12:28:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i96GS9hG032689 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 12:28:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i96GRU3x009716 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Oct 2004 10:27:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i96GRRTW097603; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 10:27:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from outbound1.mail.tds.net (outbound1.mail.tds.net [216.170.230.91]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i96GRHTW097441 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 10:27:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bobd2@tellink.net) Received: from host (h69-21-248-100.69-21.unk.tds.net [69.21.248.100]) by outbound1.mail.tds.net (8.12.10/8.12.2) with SMTP id i96GREig027392 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 11:27:15 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <005701c4abc0$fa7727c0$0201a8c0@domain> From: "bobd2" To: References: <200410061445.i96EjJTX012352@net.indra.com> Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 12:24:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re:request for digests X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just sent the requested digests. Bob Dorr -- Robert of Stonemarche Why yes, I do keep them all as a resource. Doesn't everyone? :) > Message: 12 > Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 08:34:16 -0500 > From: "Catherine Kinsey" > Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 804 > To: > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > I seem to be missing several Digests; 799, 800, 801, 802 & 803 > > If anyone still has them and could forward them to me I would > appreciate it. > > Thanks, > Catherine > ckinsey@kumc.edu _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 6 12:33:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i96GXkQZ032717 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 12:33:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i96GX03x010573 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Oct 2004 10:33:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i96GVZTW001587; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 10:32:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from outbound2.mail.tds.net (outbound2.mail.tds.net [216.170.230.92]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i96GV0TW000999 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 10:31:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bobd2@tellink.net) Received: from host (h69-21-248-100.69-21.unk.tds.net [69.21.248.100]) by outbound2.mail.tds.net (8.12.10/8.12.2) with SMTP id i96GUqOf013212 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 11:30:53 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <005d01c4abc1$7c3e1de0$0201a8c0@domain> From: "bobd2" To: References: <200410060152.i961qd6R034263@net.indra.com> Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 12:28:16 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: chenille stumpwork X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne, thank you once again for sharing your pictures. That is spectacular. Of course, I had been planning to finish some of my other projects (A German reliquery bag, a doublet, an 1800's men's waistcoat, and some viking garb) But now I want to start on my stumpwork project more then ever. This is inspiring. Thank you again so much for posting it. Bob Dorr--Robert of Stonemarche, who needs more projects like he needs a hole in the head. :) > Message: 7 > Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 23:40:39 +0200 > From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" > Subject: [h-cost] chenille stumpwork > To: > Message-ID: <001101c4ab23$f53f7c00$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi. > Today i succeded trying to make the chenille thread on stumpwork. I made a > small flower with chenille. > You can se here: > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/helms5.htm > This is the very first flower i ever made in stumpwork, so i think it will > be good when i have practiced a little. > I couched on the chenille to the surface with another thread, and it worked. > > Bjarne > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 6 13:35:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i96HZYMn000624 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 13:35:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i96HYo3x018095 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Oct 2004 11:34:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i96HYeTW061862; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 11:34:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (chori.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i96HYbTW061694 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 11:34:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ldownward@chori.org) X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Sophos http://raeinternet.com/mpp Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP-TLS id 1489052 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 10:34:29 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.0.0.040405 Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 10:34:29 -0700 From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Oxford DNB for J. Arnold X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm a fool, I deleted the link to the Arnold DNB page after I printed it out but before I checked to see that I had actually printed the whole article. Would someone with more foresight than I have please send the link again? LynnD Shaking my head at myself _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 6 14:26:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i96IQBYJ000838 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 14:26:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i96IO03x023633 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Oct 2004 12:24:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i96INATW006621; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 12:23:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail3.mdx.safepages.com (mail3.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i96IN4TW006527 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 12:23:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail3.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id D05B188F70; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 18:23:01 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust39.tnt1.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.148.39]) by mail3.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 2BB6988FFA for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 18:21:09 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <02e101c4abd1$46a5c4c0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 13:21:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] OT, for those with costume cats... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Since so many of us seem to have the obligatory cat help with our sewing... If yer cat has a nasty habit of snagging your nice fabric with its claws, those little plastic nail caps solve the problem wonderfully! There's probably more than one company that makes them, but this is the only one I know of: http://www.softpaws.com Not affiliated, yada. I believe PetSmart resells these, btw, but I just order em. They can also be used for dogs, ferrets, etc. I've been using them for about 3 months, and since I started Judgement has shed white hair all over everything, and once chewed up a few inches of china silk, but she hasn't managed to snag a single thing, even with tempting drapey gowns hung all over the living room waiting to be photographed! =} -E (Her full name is Judgement Sunrise, after a Phil Hendrie character's favorite song. "Good Judgement!" and "Bad Judgement!" are just a happy accident.) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 6 17:02:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i96L2A9H002250 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 17:02:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i96KtA3x010807 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Oct 2004 14:55:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i96Krxk5030392; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 14:54:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i96KrZk5029902 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 14:53:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F4F511A84 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 13:53:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041006134618.00b14320@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 13:51:07 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Renaissance costuming dilemma In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-CollegeOfNewCaledonia-Metrics: net.indra.com 1189; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:31 AM 10/6/2004 -0500, you wrote: >How many Henry VIII outfits can one man have after >all! He decided to stop at 5 :) :). > >Catherine The guy who plays out King Henry VIII and his partner have two 10' racks of garb, mostly Henry's style for various levels of court, guards, etc. He also has a few ladies garb, and a couple of outfits for Elizabethan faires. For the King's finery alone I think he has a dozen +/-. But then he's been playing King for over a decade or more, not including a few years he took for sabbatical. The latest one for this year was just sumptuous in royal purple and gold patterned material. His codpieces are always grandly jeweled, and he even has one that plays music when you press the jewel in the front; Greensleeves if I recall correctly. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 6 19:50:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i96NogR0003765 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 19:50:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i96No13x028945 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Oct 2004 17:50:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i96Nnqk5063442; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 17:49:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i96Nnlk6063370 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 17:49:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i96Nl2TA023172 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 19:47:02 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 19:47:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <41648499.8030006@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 19:49:45 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Pepys diary costume note (1661) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO "Mrs. Margaret Pen, this day come to church in a new flowered satin suit that my wife helped to buy her the other day." http://www.pepysdiary.com/archive/1661/10/06/index.php -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent (8.) The "independent and non-partisan" Commission on Presidential Debates is neither independent nor non-partisan. Walter Cronkite called CPD-sponsored debates an 'unconscionable fraud.' -- Connie Rice, NPR _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 6 20:33:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i970X4P2003997 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 20:33:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i970WX3x003528 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Oct 2004 18:32:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i970WPk5087641; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 18:32:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i970WNk5087626 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 18:32:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from karoleesmiley@earthlink.net) Received: from h-68-164-155-50.snvacaid.dynamic.covad.net ([68.164.155.50] helo=[10.0.1.3]) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CFMCk-00074r-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 17:32:22 -0700 Message-ID: <41648E96.2020403@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 17:32:22 -0700 From: Karolee Smiley User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20040616 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT, for those with costume cats... References: <02e101c4abd1$46a5c4c0$0400a8c0@compaqub> In-Reply-To: <02e101c4abd1$46a5c4c0$0400a8c0@compaqub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO E House wrote: >Since so many of us seem to have the obligatory cat help with our sewing... > >If yer cat has a nasty habit of snagging your nice fabric with its claws, >those little plastic nail caps solve the problem wonderfully! There's >probably more than one company that makes them, but this is the only one I >know of: >http://www.softpaws.com >Not affiliated, yada. I believe PetSmart resells these, btw, but I just >order em. They can also be used for dogs, ferrets, etc. > >I've been using them for about 3 months, and since I started Judgement has >shed white hair all over everything, and once chewed up a few inches of >china silk, but she hasn't managed to snag a single thing, even with >tempting drapey gowns hung all over the living room waiting to be >photographed! =) > > Interesting. Are they easy to apply? I have a living cuisinart (sp???) I'm just wondering if this will save my fabric or put me in the hospital. Karolee _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 6 21:50:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i971o8Wi004422 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 21:50:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i971nS3x011511 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Oct 2004 19:49:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i971nPk5027957; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 19:49:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i971nNk5027898 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 19:49:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cozit@comcast.net) Received: from comcast.net (pcp04599099pcs.elictc01.md.comcast.net[68.55.87.127]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <2004100701491701500382khe> (Authid: cozit); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 01:49:17 +0000 Message-ID: <4164A0A9.8070404@comcast.net> Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 21:49:29 -0400 From: Cozit / Liz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <200410061803.i96I32TX089820@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: <200410061803.i96I32TX089820@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i971nNk5027898 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Queen Elizabeth in armor? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't remember ever seeing a picture of her in full armor, but I could have sworn that there was one out there with her wearing a breastplate to her specs... similar to some of our "Lady Liberty" pictures, though with the Elizabethian skirt. I could be completely mistaken, of course. -Elisabeth (sigh... my brain's still trying to come up with the period word that describes the scenes and mini-pageant/plays that some guilds would sponsor and/or put on during celebrations in London and other larger towns) Karen wrote: >Thanks for the link to the biography, it's very informative! > >I have no idea what the portrait is behind her, but the style of the hand strikes me as 17th century....could be way off on that..... > >There aren't any portraits of Elizabeth wearing armor, or if there are they are moldering away in some castle attic. During years of research on Elizabethan costume and a recent concentration on Elizabeth herself, I haven't found any published portraits with armor. I'm sure if one existed, it would be known of at least, and Janet probably would have published it in QE Unlock'd or Roy Strong would have put it in his book which does nothing but trace the evolution of Elizabeth's image in her portraits. The only images I've seen are later artwork depicting her in armor at Tilbury in a very romantic way. I doubt she had a personal set of armor, being female and all, but she had an extensive royal collection to borrow from- maybe she used one of her father's old cuirasses or one of Edward's. She could have also borrowed one from a courtier. There is a set of armor at Windsor Castle which is now the official armor of the Queen's Champion but was originally that of one of Elizabet! h! > 's Favorites- Sir Christopher Hatton. > > >Karen > >-- "Chiara" wrote: >Which portrait is that behind her in the photo? > >Also, does anyone know of a painting of Queen Elizabeth in the armour she >wore when she greeting the Spanish Armada's? Or images of that armour? > > Chiara > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 6 22:23:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i972N5UC004511 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 22:23:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i972HW3x013565 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Oct 2004 20:17:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i972HRk5042216; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 20:17:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail4.mdx.safepages.com (mail4.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.19]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i972HPk5042165 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 20:17:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail4.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 5CBA426909; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 02:17:22 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust168.tnt3.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.197.168]) by mail4.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 30EB4268F4 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 02:17:20 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <031801c4ac13$cc3e5650$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <02e101c4abd1$46a5c4c0$0400a8c0@compaqub> <41648E96.2020403@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT, for those with costume cats... Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 21:09:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hrm--medium. Basically, you put a drop or two of their glue in the bottom of each nail cap, trim the claws, then slide the nail caps on each freshly trimmed claw. For me, the hard part is trimming the claws; she barely even notices when I actually slide the caps in place, unless she's so fussed over the trimming that she doesn't want to be anywhere near me for any reason. If your cat doesn't become absolutely enraged by a claw trimming, it sounds like it'd be worth a try! -E ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karolee Smiley" > Interesting. > Are they easy to apply? > I have a living cuisinart (sp???) I'm just wondering if this will save > my fabric or put me in the hospital. > Karolee _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 6 23:53:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i973rH6T004855 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 23:53:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i973qT3x019750 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Oct 2004 21:52:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i973qDk5089826; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 21:52:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i973ptk5089651 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 21:51:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED28316754 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 20:51:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041006204902.00b14320@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 20:51:47 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20041005183014.020aebb8@64.87.54.245> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20041005105833.00bb9410@mail.katiesorchids.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20041004221611.00b13ed8@64.87.54.245> <11487.162.119.64.110.1096938369.squirrel@162.119.64.110> <5.2.1.1.0.20041004151614.00b13a60@64.87.54.245> <5.2.1.1.0.20041004151614.00b13a60@64.87.54.245> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] A Thank You: {was Renaissance costuming dilemma} X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 06:51 PM 10/5/2004 -0700, you wrote: >My dear friend who portrays the Queen at REC South went to her first faire >as a fairy, and is now dressed in the finest gown a Queen could wear. To whomever it was that forwarded my e-mail info to Gay Linn, thank you very much. I had not known she had moved south to the LA area, and she contacted me tonight, and I am very grateful to again be in touch with her. One should always have dear friends to treasure, no matter where they are. Thank you again. Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 00:12:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i974CvVA004974 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 00:12:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i974Bj3x021019 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Oct 2004 22:11:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i974Bgk5099735; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 22:11:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from navgw.mccc.edu (navgw.mccc.edu [198.133.170.231]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i974Bek6099655 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 22:11:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pinner@mccc.edu) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu ([198.133.170.1]) by navgw.mccc.edu (SMSSMTP 4.0.0.59) with SMTP id M2004100700113225832 for ; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 00:11:32 -0400 Received: from Kate ([198.133.170.246]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.11.4) with SMTP id i974BP8Q011660 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 00:11:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <026a01c4ac23$be45ba10$4ea810ac@Kate> From: "Kate Pinner" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200410061803.i96I32TX089820@net.indra.com> <4164A0A9.8070404@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Queen Elizabeth in armor? Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 00:11:32 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Masques? Kate ************ > (sigh... my brain's still trying to come up with the period word that > describes the scenes and mini-pageant/plays that some guilds would > sponsor and/or put on during celebrations in London and other larger towns) > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 00:20:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i974KdD5005017 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 00:20:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i974J63x021649 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Oct 2004 22:19:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i974J4k5003528; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 22:19:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i974J1k5003481 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 22:19:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA26767 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 23:27:27 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 23:27:26 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Queen Elizabeth in armor? In-Reply-To: <026a01c4ac23$be45ba10$4ea810ac@Kate> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 7 Oct 2004, Kate Pinner wrote: > Masques? > ************ > > (sigh... my brain's still trying to come up with the period word that > > describes the scenes and mini-pageant/plays that some guilds would > > sponsor and/or put on during celebrations in London and other larger > towns) I'm thinking mystery plays, but there's another word (or several) that are escaping me right now. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 00:30:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i974UWVf005130 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 00:30:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i974Tp3x022228 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Oct 2004 22:29:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i974Tmk5008598; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 22:29:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i974Tkk6008562 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 22:29:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i974a9jv027880 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 00:36:10 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT, for those with costume cats... Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 00:41:54 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <02e101c4abd1$46a5c4c0$0400a8c0@compaqub> <41648E96.2020403@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <41648E96.2020403@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200410070041.54767.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 06 October 2004 8:32 pm, Karolee Smiley wrote: > E House wrote: > >Since so many of us seem to have the obligatory cat help with our > > sewing... I cannot recall hearing of a costumer with pets that *didn't* have at least one cat, but that may just be selective memory kicking in. :-) > > > >If yer cat has a nasty habit of snagging your nice fabric with its claws, > >those little plastic nail caps solve the problem wonderfully! There's > >probably more than one company that makes them, but this is the only one I > >know of: > >http://www.softpaws.com > >Not affiliated, yada. I believe PetSmart resells these, btw, but I just > >order em. They can also be used for dogs, ferrets, etc. If Sugar (my cat) posed a real problem in this regard, I'd try it, since she sure won't let me *trim* her claws (I make the vet do it when she gets her checkup, because it takes a minimum of two people; one to hold the cat fully extended by all four paws and one to do the actual trimming.) > >I've been using them for about 3 months, and since I started Judgement has > >shed white hair all over everything, and once chewed up a few inches of > >china silk, but she hasn't managed to snag a single thing, even with > >tempting drapey gowns hung all over the living room waiting to be > >photographed! =) Sugar likes to nibble paper (she once did quite a bit of nibbling on a pattern I had spread on the floor) but does not damage cloth, even by accident. She just likes to walk around on it, and then lie down. -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 00:33:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i974XGwU005165 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 00:33:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i974Vk3x022363 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Oct 2004 22:31:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i974Vhk5009501; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 22:31:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from navgw.mccc.edu (navgw.mccc.edu [198.133.170.231]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i974VSk6009321 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 22:31:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pinner@mccc.edu) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu ([198.133.170.1]) by navgw.mccc.edu (SMSSMTP 4.0.0.59) with SMTP id M2004100700312225892 for ; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 00:31:22 -0400 Received: from Kate ([198.133.170.246]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.11.4) with SMTP id i974VJ8Q012004 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 00:31:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <027501c4ac26$854801c0$4ea810ac@Kate> From: "Kate Pinner" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Queen Elizabeth in armor? Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 00:31:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yeah, mystery plays is what we call them; don't know if that's what they called them. Masques are later. Kate ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 12:27 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Queen Elizabeth in armor? > > On Thu, 7 Oct 2004, Kate Pinner wrote: > > > Masques? > > ************ > > > (sigh... my brain's still trying to come up with the period word that > > > describes the scenes and mini-pageant/plays that some guilds would > > > sponsor and/or put on during celebrations in London and other larger > > towns) > > I'm thinking mystery plays, but there's another word (or several) that are > escaping me right now. > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 00:35:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i974ZdAM005193 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 00:35:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i974Z43x022527 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Oct 2004 22:35:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i974Z2k5011135; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 22:35:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from granger.mail.mindspring.net (granger.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i974Z1k5011115 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 22:35:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) Received: from 209-165-50-079.jps.net ([209.165.50.79] helo=[209.165.44.53]) by granger.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CFPzX-000076-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 00:35:00 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <01c101c4aaec$754c3970$0400a8c0@compaqub> References: <006701c4a95e$8adfa8b0$0db00040@softwareinnovation.com><018601c4aa62$9ecc6 9d0$0400a8c0@compaqub> <4161F4F6.2010803@thibault.org> <01c101c4aaec$754c3970$0400a8c0@compaqub> Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 21:34:53 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Subject: Re: [h-cost] fur-lined dress Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:03 AM -0500 10/5/04, E House wrote: >Chris, those 2 Clouet pictures you posted are exactly the sort of >thing I'd like to do... I wonder if I can justify using a male sort of >decoration on a female gown. I'd certainly classify it as plausible, anyway, since I also have some portraits of Italian women wearing the same sort of couched-cord interlace. (Well, the one I can easily find, Emilia di Spilimbergo, is from about 1560, which is a bit late for you, but at least we know cord interlace isn't exclusively male :) http://www.nga.gov/cgi-bin/pimage?1224+0+0 with a slightly better look at http://www.nga.gov/cgi-bin/pimage?1224+0+2 And here's a French one, http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/master/moulins/anne_aus.jpg -- the young Margaret of Austria, from about 1490. She has some sort of interlaced (?) trim along the edge of the black lappets of her headdress. Interesting that her gown is so plain and her headdress so heavily decorated! >Has anyone--Cynthia, perhaps?--got a clear idea of how metallic cord from >this time period was made? I've read that it would have been something like >a narrow strip of gold leaf coiled around thread; I hope that's what it's >like, because I can find something like that pretty easily. In fact, if I'm >feeling really stubborn, I can take some silk thread and do the wrapping >myself! =} (I've got a bunch of spun silk that I stupidly ordered, when I >should have gotten reeled.) The thread that the cord is made of would definitely have been made in the way you describe. You can get quite a variety of different "looks," too, depending on how close together your wraps are on the thread. I've seen a few 17th century pieces with metallic thread, and some threads are wrapped so closely that almost no thread shows, while others are wrapped so loosely that they almost look like that Christmas-glitter crochet-cotton stuff that was so popular in the 1970's. However, I would expect a cord to be made out of several to many of these threads, braided, plied, or woven together in some way. I know that a lot of medieval cords have turned out to be finger-loop braided, for instance, and there's a 16th-century (or early 17th) pattern book with instructions and samples of a lot of them. Francois I's cords in the Clouet portrait look like they are simply plied cords. Besides finger-loop braiding and plying, plausible cord-making techniques that I know of also include braiding a cord using bobbins (rather like the Japanese kumihimo technique), weaving a narrow strip on a simple loom (such as a rigid-heddle or belt loom), and tubular tablet-weaving (which produces a nice hollow cord). These are all techniques that we know were used for _something_ in the relevant period, but I don't know if we have direct evidence of which types were used on clothing. I would also not be surprised to see fabric-covered cords or pipings used to make corded designs, and I think I've seen some paintings where it looks as though that's what was done. >The metal doodads are really tempting me; I'm pretty sure either fire >mountain gems or shipwreck beads have something that I could stand and >afford. If you're aiming for an authentic look, I know you'll want to be sure you're not over-glittery -- that's a mistake that's all too common, especially when people focus on royalty as their only models. Royals are _supposed_ to be "over the top" -- magnificence is part of their job description ! Also, if your gown is serving as "background" for lots of nifty accessories, you don't want to make it _too_ distracting. ;-) (Digression: If you look closely at the Virgin at http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/f/fouquet/madonna.jpg and enlarge the view a bit .... she's not wearing any decoration sewn onto her gown, but she _is_ wearing a rather intriguing-looking braided girdle!) -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 00:38:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i974c38u005221 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 00:38:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i974bV3x022728 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Oct 2004 22:37:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i974bVk5012405; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 22:37:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i974bSk6012362 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 22:37:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i974hqqh028058 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 00:43:53 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT, for those with costume cats... Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 00:49:37 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <41648E96.2020403@earthlink.net> <031801c4ac13$cc3e5650$0400a8c0@compaqub> In-Reply-To: <031801c4ac13$cc3e5650$0400a8c0@compaqub> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200410070049.37601.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 06 October 2004 10:09 pm, E House wrote: > Hrm--medium. Basically, you put a drop or two of their glue in the bottom > of each nail cap, trim the claws, then slide the nail caps on each freshly > trimmed claw. For me, the hard part is trimming the claws; she barely even > notices when I actually slide the caps in place, unless she's so fussed > over the trimming that she doesn't want to be anywhere near me for any > reason. If your cat doesn't become absolutely enraged by a claw trimming, > it sounds like it'd be worth a try! Boy, it's a good thing I don't have a snagging problem with *my* cat--I wouldn't survive the trimming! :-) -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 00:50:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i974osX1005353 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 00:50:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i974oM3x023623 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Oct 2004 22:50:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i974oLk5018405; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 22:50:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i974oHk5018352 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 22:50:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA27038 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 23:58:44 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 23:58:42 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Queen Elizabeth in armor? In-Reply-To: <027501c4ac26$854801c0$4ea810ac@Kate> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 7 Oct 2004, Kate Pinner wrote: > Yeah, mystery plays is what we call them; don't know if that's what they > called them. Yes, it's a period term. Another is "miracle plays," I think, but I remember "mystery" from my college textbooks on medieval drama. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 01:30:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i975UYRA005846 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 01:30:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i975Tw3x026329 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Oct 2004 23:29:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i975Ttk5036085; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 23:29:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i975Trk5036068 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 23:29:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91DAC344B8 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 22:29:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041006222858.021cf278@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 22:29:52 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] fur-lined dress In-Reply-To: References: <01c101c4aaec$754c3970$0400a8c0@compaqub> <006701c4a95e$8adfa8b0$0db00040@softwareinnovation.com> <018601c4aa62$9ecc6 9d0$0400a8c0@compaqub> <4161F4F6.2010803@thibault.org> <01c101c4aaec$754c3970$0400a8c0@compaqub> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:34 PM 10/6/2004 -0700, you wrote: >I would also not be surprised to see fabric-covered cords or pipings used >to make corded designs, and I think I've seen some paintings where it >looks as though that's what was done. The painting of young Prince Edward seems to be done in the fabric covered piping method. http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Edward3.jpg fwiw, Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 01:30:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i975Uwf5005861 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 01:30:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i975US3x026359 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Oct 2004 23:30:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i975USk5036347; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 23:30:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i975Trk5036066 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 23:29:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE294344B2 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 22:29:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041006222604.02066a00@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 22:28:00 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: [SCA-Garb] Janet Arnold - "biography of the day" In-Reply-To: <20041006.082615.28482.244471@webmail17.nyc.untd.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 03:25 PM 10/6/2004 +0000, you wrote: >There is a set of armor at Windsor Castle which is now the official armor >of the Queen's Champion but was originally that of one of Elizabeth! > 's Favorites- Sir Christopher Hatton. Which Queen's champion are you speaking of? George Clifford, Earl of Cumberland, or Sir Henry Lee, her first Champion of the Tilts? And why was it originally thought to be Sir Hatton's? My husband portrays George Clifford, which is why I am curious. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 02:08:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9768OUm009067 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 02:08:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9767t3x028078 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 00:07:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9767ok5051483; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 00:07:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9767mk5051468 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 00:07:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from perronnelle@earthlink.net) Received: from user-12hc6s3.cable.mindspring.com ([69.22.27.131] helo=[192.168.1.101]) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CFRRM-0004AD-00; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 23:07:48 -0700 Message-ID: <4164DD2B.7080404@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 01:07:39 -0500 From: Charlene Charette User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20040616 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume List Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: charlene_tx@yahoo.com Subject: [h-cost] Florida panhandle fabric stores X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'll be visiting my parents this month and thought I'd check out any fabric stores. They live in Niceville (near Eglin AFB). Pensecola is a reasonable drive. I found a few stores searching Yahoo yellow pages, but it's not apparent from a phone listing whether or not the store is worth the drive. I won't have access to this e-mail account (or list) after Friday (Oct 8th). You can respond privately to: charlene_tx@yahoo.com . TIA, --Charlene -- Courtesy is owed. Respect is earned. Love is given. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 02:12:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i976CB6T010567 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 02:12:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i976B53x028224 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 00:11:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i976B4k5052890; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 00:11:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm01.prodigy.net (ylpvm01-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i976B3k5052874 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 00:11:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-70-198.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.70.198]) by ylpvm01.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i976Avwo020327 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 02:10:58 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20040929113805.02542ed8@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:39:10 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] vintage clothing sites? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What are your favorite vintage clothing sites, both museums and dealers? CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 02:46:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i976ku1N023307 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 02:46:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i976kL3x029685 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 00:46:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i976kIk5068010; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 00:46:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (e-smtp.socket.net [216.106.88.132]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i976kDk5067969 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 00:46:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F34C72BFBB for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 01:46:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p291.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.37]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id F39C3C505 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 01:46:11 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Queen Elizabeth in armor? Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 01:46:21 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <4164A0A9.8070404@comcast.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Is it possible that you are thinking of this portrait? http://ladysarafina.home.att.net/liz3goddesses.JPG I'll see If I can get a better picture. De -----Original Message----- I don't remember ever seeing a picture of her in full armor, but I could have sworn that there was one out there with her wearing a breastplate to her specs... similar to some of our "Lady Liberty" pictures, though with the Elizabethian skirt. I could be completely mistaken, of course. -Elisabeth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 04:17:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i978H9v8020584 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 04:17:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i978Gc3x009616 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 02:16:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i978GPk5010846; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 02:16:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i978GNk5010813 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 02:16:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F96916512 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 01:16:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041007011542.00b14ca8@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 01:16:07 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: RE: [h-cost] beaded girdles (Tudor/Elizabethan) In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.1.1.0.20041005233803.02099f20@64.87.54.245> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 07:03 AM 10/6/2004 -0500, you wrote: >I have seen a situation were a child broke a wire strand necklace, somehow >the wire cut the child. Thank you for the warning. I will indeed stay away from the wire. Better safe than sorry. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 04:18:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i978I2hc020694 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 04:18:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i978HY3x009881 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 02:17:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i978HXk5011384; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 02:17:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm01.prodigy.net (ylpvm01-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i978Gtk5011032 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 02:16:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-70-198.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.70.198]) by ylpvm01.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i978Gnwo030543 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 04:16:49 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20041007005849.02542698@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 01:00:23 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Queen Elizabeth in armor? In-Reply-To: References: <4164A0A9.8070404@comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >http://ladysarafina.home.att.net/liz3goddesses.JPG She's not the one in armor. >I'll see If I can get a better picture. The lady on the right is sitting on an Elizabethan shirt. I'haven't looked at this picture in a while, but I seem to recall that it's embroidered. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 06:13:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i97ADnfr007880 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 06:13:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97AD93x003665 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 04:13:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97AD3k5068854; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 04:13:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net (smtp2.suscom.net [64.78.83.231]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97AD0k6068818 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 04:13:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (smtp2.suscom.net [127.0.0.1]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8C981CDCD4 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 06:07:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp2 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 09802-09 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 06:07:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip194.182.235.64.susc.suscom.net [64.235.182.194]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id D47A41CDCFA for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 06:07:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <149a01c4ac56$2ef06d50$c2b6eb40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <02e101c4abd1$46a5c4c0$0400a8c0@compaqub><41648E96.2020403@earthlink.net> <200410070041.54767.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT, for those with costume cats... Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 06:12:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine Olanich Raymond" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 12:41 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT, for those with costume cats... > On Wednesday 06 October 2004 8:32 pm, Karolee Smiley wrote: > > E House wrote: > > >Since so many of us seem to have the obligatory cat help with our > > > sewing... > > I cannot recall hearing of a costumer with pets that *didn't* have at least > one cat, but that may just be selective memory kicking in. :-) I don't have cats. I have two birds, an incredibly bossy African Grey parrot who orders me around and a cockatiel who sings to me while I sew. My DH hates cats, I don't want my birds to become kitty stew (though I have been known to threaten parrot stew for dinner) and I live in a rental house. No cats for me. BTW, birds find pins with bright yellow heads most amusing and fun to pull out of fabric-which is also delightfully fun (and easy!) to bite holes into. I'm tempted to train the African Grey to make the holes for eyelets--talk about fast! Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 06:15:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i97AFMd4007899 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 06:15:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97AEs3x003767 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 04:14:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97AEsk5069597; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 04:14:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net (smtp2.suscom.net [64.78.83.231]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97ADwk6069211 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 04:14:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (smtp2.suscom.net [127.0.0.1]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA5DA1CDCFB for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 06:08:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp2 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 09903-09 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 06:08:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip194.182.235.64.susc.suscom.net [64.235.182.194]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 6A7281CDCC2 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 06:08:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <14b001c4ac56$53f7f320$c2b6eb40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Queen Elizabeth in armor? Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 06:13:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net X-DCC-SdV-Metrics: net.indra.com 1179; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 12:27 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Queen Elizabeth in armor? > > On Thu, 7 Oct 2004, Kate Pinner wrote: > > > Masques? > > ************ > > > (sigh... my brain's still trying to come up with the period word that > > > describes the scenes and mini-pageant/plays that some guilds would > > > sponsor and/or put on during celebrations in London and other larger > > towns) > I think you are thinking of tableaux. Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 07:12:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i97BC3Pw008604 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 07:12:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97B5L3x006708 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 05:05:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97B5Ik5093195; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 05:05:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m26.mx.aol.com (imo-m26.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97B5Gk5093134 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 05:05:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.7.) id 6.83.18033977 (2168) for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 07:05:06 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <83.18033977.2e967ce2@aol.com> Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 07:05:06 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT, for those with costume cats... To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5031 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 10/7/2004 12:37:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, cathy@thyrsus.com writes: Boy, it's a good thing I don't have a snagging problem with *my* cat--I wouldn't survive the trimming! :-) I've been surprised how well my cat takes it--I use baby-sized nail nippers. It isn't her favorite thing, but she does tolerate it. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 08:08:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i97C8orL010508 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 08:08:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97C8E3x010463 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 06:08:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97C85k5023527; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 06:08:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp3.fuse.net (mail-out3.fuse.net [216.68.8.176]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97C7jk5023303 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 06:08:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jemarshall@fuse.net) Received: from gx4.fuse.net ([66.161.249.144]) by smtp3.fuse.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.04 201-2131-111-106-20040729) with ESMTP id <20041007120730.ZXJX8009.smtp3.fuse.net@gx4.fuse.net> for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 08:07:30 -0400 Received: from netzero.fuse.net ([66.161.249.144]) by gx4.fuse.net (InterMail vG.1.00.00.00 201-2136-104-20040331) with ESMTP id <20041007120731.DYDK9422.gx4.fuse.net@netzero.fuse.net> for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 08:07:31 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20041007075601.00b57610@pop.fuse.net> X-Sender: jemarshall@pop.fuse.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 07:59:22 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: "J.E. Marshall" Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT, for those with costume cats... In-Reply-To: <83.18033977.2e967ce2@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO All three of my cats are declawed in front. I had it done long before I really took up sewing, but right before I got my new sofa. I do still trim their back claws. I usually cradle them like a baby and quickly nip off the tips. They usually don't even try to scratch at my fabric, but they do love to lay across the cutting line. Jennifer At 07:05 AM 10/7/04 -0400, you wrote: >In a message dated 10/7/2004 12:37:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, >cathy@thyrsus.com writes: >Boy, it's a good thing I don't have a snagging problem with *my* cat--I >wouldn't survive the trimming! :-) >I've been surprised how well my cat takes it--I use baby-sized nail nippers. >It isn't her favorite thing, but she does tolerate it. >Ann Wass >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume If you are squeamish, don't prod the beach rubble. Sappho _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 08:31:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i97CVvgh010782 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 08:31:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97CVD3x011611 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 06:31:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97CVCk5035376; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 06:31:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cpanel.logical.net (cpanel.logical.net [209.23.116.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97CV8k6035320 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 06:31:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from homeec@telenet.net) Received: from nobody by cpanel.logical.net with local (Exim 4.42) id 1CFXQJ-0006P4-VR for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 08:31:08 -0400 Received: from little-falls-high-pat.moric.org (little-falls-high-pat.moric.org [168.170.198.40]) by webmail.logical.net (IMP) with HTTP for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 08:31:07 -0400 Message-ID: <1097152267.4165370be57f0@webmail.logical.net> Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 08:31:07 -0400 From: homeec@telenet.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT, for those with costume cats... References: <4.3.2.7.2.20041007075601.00b57610@pop.fuse.net> In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20041007075601.00b57610@pop.fuse.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.2 X-Originating-IP: 168.170.198.40 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cpanel.logical.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [99 99] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - telenet.net X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -- I had to have mine declawed (even though I too limited it to just the front), once he discovered how much fun it was to get a running start and then Pounce and Slide on any fabric I was trying to cut out. And I think he was having a contest with himself to find out how far he could slide each time. It was also where I discovered that 1) it didn't have to be on the floor, he could Pounce and Slide on fabric on a table, and 2) apparently, in his mind, a table with fabric on it did not have the same Stay Off rule as a table with dishes - even when it is the same table! Rowena Quoting "J.E. Marshall" : > All three of my cats are declawed in front. I had it done long before I > really took up sewing, but right before I got my new sofa. I do still trim > their back claws. I usually cradle them like a baby and quickly nip off > the tips. They usually don't even try to scratch at my fabric, but they do > love to lay across the cutting line. > > Jennifer > > >cathy writes: > >Boy, it's a good thing I don't have a snagging problem with *my* cat--I > >wouldn't survive the trimming! :-) > >I've been surprised how well my cat takes it--I use baby-sized nail > nippers. > >It isn't her favorite thing, but she does tolerate it. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 08:53:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i97CrDcS010880 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 08:53:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97Clb3x012437 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 06:47:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97ClZk5043710; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 06:47:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i97ClXk5043636 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 06:47:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m2.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABAYLQYPAR7KGZ2 for (sender ); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 05:47:09 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCgKQ/5lvIDeugfIrox2JUgTMN9ATTsWAVw== Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id J9CDWQK3; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 05:47:08 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 07:10:26 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: [SCA-Garb] Janet Arnold - "biography of the day" Message-ID: <20041007.071027.-140807605.1.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 8-22,24-48,49-32767 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-ContentStamp: 14:7:601593975 X-MAIL-INFO: 1b74c185a111a07460a19580f5143dc16180443d51a5603d29950d90a490cd00c0e9e190a075a064e459ddc08de4c9e130c075c91551f0c9d0fd49312531246dd1a45431f419f465d440bdd121d455544dd1195514cd959195e9e5e0e9e500e4e500e414119d01b974bdf1bda144840581bda5e1fd2da42d3194353194d45494d4 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: h-costume@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The way it worked- according to the docent at Windsor Castle- was that while Sir Christopher Hatton was never the Queen's champion, after his death, his suit of armor was given to the Queen. It became part of the Royal Armory and a subsequent monarch (don't know which one) decided to make that suit the official armor of the Monarch's Champion. Today it is the official, ceremonial armor of the Queen's Champion, I don't believe that it was ever used as such during Elizabeth's reign but I think it's pretty cool that Kit Hatton is still serving the Crown all these years later.... in at least an indirect way. Karen On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 22:28:00 -0700 Kimiko Small writes: > At 03:25 PM 10/6/2004 +0000, you wrote: > >There is a set of armor at Windsor Castle which is now the official > armor > >of the Queen's Champion but was originally that of one of > Elizabeth! > > 's Favorites- Sir Christopher Hatton. > > > Which Queen's champion are you speaking of? George Clifford, Earl of > > Cumberland, or Sir Henry Lee, her first Champion of the Tilts? And > why was > it originally thought to be Sir Hatton's? > > My husband portrays George Clifford, which is why I am curious. > > Kimiko > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 09:28:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i97DScxF011353 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 09:28:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97DS93x015310 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 07:28:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97DS5k5066477; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 07:28:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97DS1k5066333 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 07:28:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 08:27:52 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 08:27:39 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Renaissance costuming dilemma X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO His codpieces are always grandly jeweled, and he even has one that plays music when you press the jewel in the front; Greensleeves if I recall correctly. Kimiko >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How incredibly appropriate :)! Our ED would not allow codpieces on the court when DH was king. They could wear tights w/codpieces, but no constructed ones to match costumes, etc. He has tons of 'gypsy boys' running around in nothing but little vests & said tights w/ codpieces, but no fancy codpieces in the court. Again; sigh. Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 09:36:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i97Da83B011483 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 09:36:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97DZa3x015761 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 07:35:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97DZZk5070834; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 07:35:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97DZWk5070757 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 07:35:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 08:35:27 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 08:35:16 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: OT, for those with costume cats... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have a problem with the 2-year-old cat that wants to lie right behind my machine and bat at the needle as it goes up and down. He thinks it is a game for me to toss him to the floor, he jumps back up and trys to slide back in place, toss, jump, toss, jump, etc. He also thinks that when I am cutting out I must be doing it solely for his entertainment and he will pounce right in the middle of the fabric and it is back to the toss, jump, toss, jump game. Hmmm, I'm starting to see a pattern :). He was a stray we adopted so occasionally I have to watch out for him wanting to mark a piece of fabric (even though he is neutered). The old man (8 years) just occasionally wants some attention if I have been on a sewing binge, then he is happy to go on his way. Not to much trouble with either of them snaging fabric, which is probably a good thing as I would never be able to get near the older one with those tips :) :). Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 10:16:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i97EGXUi012101 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 10:16:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97EAw3x018283 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 08:10:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97EAtk5092817; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 08:10:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97EAqk5092693 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 08:10:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from ches (c-24-1-84-130.client.comcast.net[24.1.84.130]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <2004100714104701600c2ug7e>; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 14:10:47 +0000 Message-ID: <0f8801c4ac77$5760e4b0$6d00a8c0@ches> From: "Chiara" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Queen Elizabeth in armor? Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 09:04:46 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That is way too small for me to get any real detail out of it. What is the name of the portrait and where could I find it? If you have not guessed it by now, yes, I am making armour. Chiara `°ş¤ř,¸¸,ř¤ş°` ----- Original Message ----- From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 1:46 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Queen Elizabeth in armor? : Is it possible that you are thinking of this portrait? : : http://ladysarafina.home.att.net/liz3goddesses.JPG : : I'll see If I can get a better picture. : : De : : -----Original Message----- : I don't remember ever seeing a picture of her in full armor, but I could : have sworn that there was one out there with her wearing a breastplate : to her specs... similar to some of our "Lady Liberty" pictures, though : with the Elizabethian skirt. I could be completely mistaken, of course. : : -Elisabeth : : _______________________________________________ : h-costume mailing list : h-costume@mail.indra.com : http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 10:24:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i97EOjcN012229 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 10:24:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97EOD3x019436 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 08:24:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97EO4k5002294; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 08:24:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i97ENxk5002118 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 08:24:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m2.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABAYLWLAAJVMS2A for (sender ); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 07:22:56 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCgKQ/5lvIDeuyB8NZkCicnHWBQLmYHrAsw== Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id J9CKC3Y3; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 07:22:21 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 08:41:50 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Queen Elizabeth in armor? Message-ID: <20041007.084151.-140807605.1.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 8-67,68-32767 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-ContentStamp: 28:14:3007278435 X-MAIL-INFO: 2bd995cd75840d91c0f5e5e0319184a035209161edad5991ade561a9e4c945f1c9b0355059f11da4f19949752d99500465541d65d9fd2145a1dd1d5d0dc4dd74848919dd892174253004641104390db5c19db5e411f50d59609d8164a961516175b131752d65942d9954316495b0d4cde195cd90b0f1ad49edc049a0315d7d387d1539251585749d8504d9 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: h-costume@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It's called 'Queen Elizabeth and the Three Goddesses' and it's fairly well known. But Queen E is not the one in armor. The goddess Minerva/Athena is wearing a pseudo-Roman breastplate. The picture is an allegory of Elizabeth "defeating" the three goddesses (of Trojan War fame) by combining all of their attributes in one person (Athena=wisdom, Juno=rulership/power, Venus=beauty/love). If you are planning on wearing the armor in a masque of some sort, you are in the right area. If you are looking to design an armor that a real Elizabethan might have worn, you will need to look elsewhere. Karen On Thu, 7 Oct 2004 09:04:46 -0500 "Chiara" writes: > That is way too small for me to get any real detail out of it. What > is the > name of the portrait and where could I find it? > > If you have not guessed it by now, yes, I am making armour. > > Chiara > `°ş¤ř,¸¸,ř¤ş°` > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "otsisto" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 1:46 AM > Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Queen Elizabeth in armor? > > > : Is it possible that you are thinking of this portrait? > : > : http://ladysarafina.home.att.net/liz3goddesses.JPG > : > : I'll see If I can get a better picture. > : > : De > : > : -----Original Message----- > : I don't remember ever seeing a picture of her in full armor, but I > could > : have sworn that there was one out there with her wearing a > breastplate > : to her specs... similar to some of our "Lady Liberty" pictures, > though > : with the Elizabethian skirt. I could be completely mistaken, of > course. > : > : -Elisabeth > : > : _______________________________________________ > : h-costume mailing list > : h-costume@mail.indra.com > : http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 10:55:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i97EtUGd012604 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 10:55:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97Esw3x022167 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 08:54:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97Esfk5024359; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 08:54:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.115]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97Esck5024262 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 08:54:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sewinggoddess@att.net) Received: from 204.127.135.57 ([204.127.135.57]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc11) with SMTP id <2004100714543211100iiv90e>; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 14:54:32 +0000 Received: from [24.26.111.46] by 204.127.135.57; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 14:54:32 +0000 From: sewinggoddess@att.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: OT, for those with costume cats... Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 14:54:32 +0000 Message-Id: <100720041454.21746.416558A80003906A000054F221603763169C9C0A0B0B0109090207990A9C@att.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Jul 19 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: c2V3aW5nZ29kZGVzc0BhdHQubmV0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO <<>I have a problem with the 2-year-old cat that wants to lie right behind my machine and bat at the needle as it goes up and down. I had a cat that used to do that too! She "cured" Herself of that problem when the needle actually caught her once. Once was all it took. After that she was perfectly content to sit behind the machine and purr along with it as I sewed. She still jumped on fabric, as I was cutting out garb. But we finally trained her to be a patternweight for me instead for getting upset about it. It did get to be frustrating though because of the battles to get her *off* of each piece when I needed to cut another one though.. I would tell her every so often I was going to make a cloak hood lining out of her if she didn't quit. The day I actually took the pattern piece for the hood lining and "test fit" it across her back, she got the message.. her little green eyes got so big and she was out the door in a flash. I didn't see her for the rest of the afternoon, and I was allowed to cut in peace. After that we would play the cutting game for a while and when I would give her her ultimatum, she would retire to the sewing machine table and wait for the purr machine to start. The only color fabric she wouldn't jusp on was white, and that because we got her convinced that if she got on the white bridal satin for my wed! ding gown she would never live to see the wedding. I still can't figure out how my mother taught her that. I miss my sewing kitty. Crissy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 11:04:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i97F4Zeu012738 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:04:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97F3p3x023294 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 09:03:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97F3kk5031615; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 09:03:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from myway.com (nn7.excitenetwork.com [207.159.120.61]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97F3gk5031472 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 09:03:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from emmajean@myway.com) Received: by mprdmxin.myway.com (Postfix, from userid 110) id CC30139B8; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:03:32 -0400 (EDT) To: h-costume@indra.com Received: from [207.161.58.167] by mprdmailfe1.nwk.myway.com via HTTP; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 11:03:32 EST X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: ID = 5eeb4204bc45b743d8dc988568e96b74 From: "Wendy" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: emmajean@myway.com X-Mailer: PHP Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20041007150332.CC30139B8@mprdmxin.myway.com> Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:03:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] re: for those with costume cats X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've never had a cat destroy fabric with claws, I just have one that sneaks into my sewing room and curls up in the closet leaving me hair ball surprises. But never leave a $40 pattern on the floor overnight. My room looked like a ticker-tape parade. I had one cat who found a spool of thread when I was gone overnight. Fortunately the thread passed through her intestines and didn't bind, but I came home to find thread starting in the litterbox, passing through the cat to the spool out the other end. She had the most pathetic "help me" face I have ever seen. Wendy _______________________________________________ No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding. Make My Way your home on the Web - http://www.myway.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 11:35:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i97FZrY0013199 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:35:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97FZA3x027111 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 09:35:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97FYuGm058191; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 09:35:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts12.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.141]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97FYpGm058056 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 09:34:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([67.68.138.164]) by simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with SMTP id <20041007153325.JMSF1580.simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:33:25 -0400 Message-ID: <00a601c4ac82$61abee00$cb6afea9@sherry> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.2.7.2.20041007075601.00b57610@pop.fuse.net> <1097152267.4165370be57f0@webmail.logical.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT, for those with costume cats... Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:29:04 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Both of mine are really good about having their claws clipped, the calico enjoys having her feet rubbed, so we turn the clipping into a footie massage. The black one has very ticklish feet, but he loves the attention, so will usually struggle with himself just long enough for me to do the trimming. :-) My friend uses the 'falsies' on her cat, and absolutely loves it. As soon as I can find a local supplier, I'm going to give it a try. Usually both of them will sit with me, or on me while I cut things out (on the floor, no table), butI have to watch the black one with my pins - pulling them out of my cushion and my cut fabric and leaving them in tidy piles is fun. The week I made the tent was kitty heaven for them. My living room was full of sunforger canvas, which apparently has a very seductive crinkling sound, the cats thought I had bought them the worlds largest paper bag for them to play in. :-) I'd be trying to hoist all 50 pounds of fabric *and* 26 pounds of cats accross the floor and through my machine. Now they have to content themselves with sleeping on the tent bag. :-) Sheridan (Apostrophe and Stradavarius) ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 8:31 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT, for those with costume cats... > I had to have mine declawed (even though I too limited it to just the front), > once he discovered how much fun it was to get a running start and then Pounce > and Slide on any fabric I was trying to cut out. And I think he was having a > contest with himself to find out how far he could slide each time. > It was also where I discovered that 1) it didn't have to be on the floor, he > could Pounce and Slide on fabric on a table, and 2) apparently, in his mind, a > table with fabric on it did not have the same Stay Off rule as a table with > dishes - even when it is the same table! Rowena _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 11:43:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i97FhMo0013308 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:43:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97Fgk3x027844 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 09:42:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97FgbGm064382; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 09:42:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com ([199.170.202.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97FgYGm064293 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 09:42:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i97G6FTP028630 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 12:06:15 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: (from sfarmer@localhost) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3/Submit) id i97G6FPC028629 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 12:06:15 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 12:06:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Farmer Message-Id: <200410071606.i97G6FPC028629@sabre.goldsword.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Queen Elizabeth in armor? In-Reply-To: <0f8801c4ac77$5760e4b0$6d00a8c0@ches> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > That is way too small for me to get any real detail out of it. What is the > name of the portrait and where could I find it? I thought that I had this one but I didn't. You can, however, see it on this page http://www.geocities.com/queenswoman/elizadoran.html It's by Hans Eworth, is titled Elizabeth I and the three Goddesses Jerusha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 13:05:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i97H5tdm014539 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 13:05:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97H0I3x006883 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:00:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97GxLDx030074; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 10:59:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97GwJDx028969 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 10:58:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from ches (c-24-1-84-130.client.comcast.net[24.1.84.130]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2004100716581301100jul6ie>; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 16:58:13 +0000 Message-ID: <101101c4ac8e$ba0c0560$6d00a8c0@ches> From: "Chiara" To: "Historical Costume" References: Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:49:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] miracle plays was Re: QEI in armor? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A few folks that I know are putting together just such a thing as a theme for our next big event. Can you tell me where I can point them to for documentation on this? For all three terms, miracle plays, mystery plays, and tableaux. Thank you! Chiara `°ş¤ř,¸¸,ř¤ş°` ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 11:58 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Queen Elizabeth in armor? : : On Thu, 7 Oct 2004, Kate Pinner wrote: : : > Yeah, mystery plays is what we call them; don't know if that's what they : > called them. : : Yes, it's a period term. Another is "miracle plays," I think, but I : remember "mystery" from my college textbooks on medieval drama. : : --Robin : : _______________________________________________ : h-costume mailing list : h-costume@mail.indra.com : http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 13:14:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i97HE7DV014691 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 13:14:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97HDW3x008636 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:13:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97HDVDx042266; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:13:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97HDUDx042189 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:13:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from ches (c-24-1-84-130.client.comcast.net[24.1.84.130]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2004100717132401100k5dq3e>; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 17:13:24 +0000 Message-ID: <102c01c4ac90$d6d1ac70$6d00a8c0@ches> From: "Chiara" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200410071606.i97G6FPC028629@sabre.goldsword.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Queen Elizabeth in armor? Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 12:04:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Curious woodcut, it is a woodcut yes? It almost looks like she is wearing armour there .... Nice site! Chiara `°ş¤ř,¸¸,ř¤ş°` ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Farmer" To: Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 11:06 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Queen Elizabeth in armor? : > : > That is way too small for me to get any real detail out of it. What is the : > name of the portrait and where could I find it? : : I thought that I had this one but I didn't. You can, however, see it on : this page : http://www.geocities.com/queenswoman/elizadoran.html : : It's by Hans Eworth, is titled Elizabeth I and the three Goddesses : : Jerusha : _______________________________________________ : h-costume mailing list : h-costume@mail.indra.com : http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 13:19:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i97HJGqw014769 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 13:19:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97HId3x009259 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:18:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97HHYDx045429; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:17:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail12.mdx.safepages.com (mail12.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.154.242]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97HGWDx044427 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:16:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail12.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id D7925B7EC; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 17:16:35 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust134.tnt1.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.148.134]) by mail12.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id F122AB8AB for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 17:16:34 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <037401c4ac91$671b1500$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: OT, for those with costume cats... Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 12:16:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mine, of course, MUST help with cutting out fabric too, in pretty much all the ways described above. She has a cat carrier that I leave out in the living room, so that she can play with it--it's turned into her cave, and she actually likes being in it. So whenever she gets too rowdy, I put her in the cat carrier and put the cat carrier right beside the fabric, so that she has a clear view of the scissors at all times. It works pretty well and she seems mostly content; the only problem is that when I let her out, she assumes that she is now free to play hurricane again! -E _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 13:22:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i97HM8fp014815 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 13:22:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97HLe3x009589 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:21:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97HKrDx048579; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:20:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web52703.mail.yahoo.com (web52703.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.154]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i97HHNDx045149 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:17:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nauzimablah@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20041007171717.69354.qmail@web52703.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [192.133.12.100] by web52703.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 10:17:17 PDT Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 10:17:17 -0700 (PDT) From: tessalina To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Soviet (female) military uniform X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Help, please! I am trying to make a Halloween costume that is at least somewhat historically accurate... I already have a vintage Soviet military hat, I just need the rest of the costume to go along with it! Does anyone know a good *picture* book on Soviet military uniforms? Or just a book on Communist military uniforms in general? Maybe a website or two? Anything would be a great help! Be well, Tessalina __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 13:28:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i97HSYAv014925 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 13:28:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97HS03x010434 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:28:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97HRuDx054663; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:27:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97HRnDx054504 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:27:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA32720 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 12:36:15 -0500 Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 12:36:15 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] miracle plays was Re: QEI in armor? In-Reply-To: <101101c4ac8e$ba0c0560$6d00a8c0@ches> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 7 Oct 2004, Chiara wrote: > A few folks that I know are putting together just such a thing as a > theme for our next big event. Can you tell me where I can point them > to for documentation on this? There are quite a number of these plays collected in school (college) textbooks that helpfully include introductory material and glosses. (Mine are probably in a box somewhere.) Or look for a scholarly edition that would include some information about the history of a given play, and have a bibliography to other sources about the genre. To find these, look for collections of "Medieval Drama" or "Drama of the Middle Ages" or something like that, on a keyword search. One well-known (Christmas-related) mystery play is the Second Shepherd's Play, IIRC, but there were whole cycles of them. The groups of plays would form the basis for a town celebration. Different guilds in a town would each take a different play in the cycle, and perform it from a wagon, and then they'd all move the wagons to new position and perform again -- sort of a parade of plays for the bystanders. (Gee, I am dredging this stuff up from the depths of memory from classes 25 years ago. I hope I have it right.) "Mystery," "miracle," and "cycle" would be good search words to use in conjunction with the ones above. I know there have been papers and books done on stagecraft issues. Search for phrases like "medieval theatre" in book titles. Wait, I seem to recall the Clifford Davidson assembled some papers on medieval theater stagecraft, including costume, into a book not long ago. OK, here it is -- this will give you a good start: Technology, Guilds, and Early English Drama (Early Drama, Art, and Music Monograph Series, 23) by Clifford Davidson Medieval Institute Publications (1996) ISBN: 187928880X Only $15 in paperback at Amazon. Plug Clifford Davidson's name into Amazon and you'll get a long list of other books he's done, many of which are on medieval drama. Some of these may be relevant to you; you'll want to get most of these ILL, though, as they're much more expensive and might not be quite what you need. One that caught my eye is "A Tretise of Miraclis Pleyinge," also from the Medieval Institute monograph series. You might want to tap into a good university library or the Medieval Institute booklist to see what else is in that monograph series. If you can't find the Institute's site easily, email me. The Medieval Institute, of course, is the organization that runs the Congress at Kalamazoo every year. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 13:46:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i97Hka7g015162 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 13:46:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97Hjx3x012438 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:45:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97HjUDx068960; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:45:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail10.mdx.safepages.com (mail10.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.33]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97HjSDx068882 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:45:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail10.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 8F705207D8; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 17:45:31 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust134.tnt1.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.148.134]) by mail10.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 7286820548 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 17:45:29 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <038301c4ac95$7209b580$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20040929113805.02542ed8@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] vintage clothing sites? Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 12:45:32 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO www.antiquedress.com is the one I check most often. Except--does eBay count? They have more vintage clothing for sale than any other single site I can think of, and even though the information with it is rarely to be trusted, it's still an amazing resource for those who feverishly collect images of extant clothing. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 13:48:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i97HmFwj015167 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 13:48:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97HlY3x012749 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:47:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97HlWDx070729; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:47:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp808.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp808.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.198]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i97HlQDx070558 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:47:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp808.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Oct 2004 17:47:19 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041007184302.0145f990@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 18:47:31 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] miracle plays was Re: QEI in armor? In-Reply-To: References: <101101c4ac8e$ba0c0560$6d00a8c0@ches> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello I'm Suzi Clarke, a professional costume maker, and i live and work in London, England. As Robin says different towns would put on mystery plays. The famous ones still performed here are the "York Mysteries" and, I think, Coventry, (although that might be mummers, in which case the play is probably about St. George and the Dragon.) Suzi >To find these, look for collections of "Medieval Drama" or "Drama of the >Middle Ages" or something like that, on a keyword search. One well-known >(Christmas-related) mystery play is the Second Shepherd's Play, IIRC, but >there were whole cycles of them. The groups of plays would form the basis >for a town celebration. Different guilds in a town would each take a >different play in the cycle, and perform it from a wagon, and then they'd >all move the wagons to new position and perform again -- sort of a parade >of plays for the bystanders. (Gee, I am dredging this stuff up from the >depths of memory from classes 25 years ago. I hope I have it right.) >"Mystery," "miracle," and "cycle" would be good search words to use in >conjunction with the ones above. > >I know there have been papers and books done on stagecraft issues. Search >for phrases like "medieval theatre" in book titles. > >Wait, I seem to recall the Clifford Davidson assembled some papers on >medieval theater stagecraft, including costume, into a book not long ago. >OK, here it is -- this will give you a good start: > >Technology, Guilds, and Early English Drama (Early Drama, Art, and Music >Monograph Series, 23) >by Clifford Davidson >Medieval Institute Publications (1996) >ISBN: 187928880X >Only $15 in paperback at Amazon. > >Plug Clifford Davidson's name into Amazon and you'll get a long list of >other books he's done, many of which are on medieval drama. Some of these >may be relevant to you; you'll want to get most of these ILL, though, as >they're much more expensive and might not be quite what you need. One >that caught my eye is "A Tretise of Miraclis Pleyinge," also from the >Medieval Institute monograph series. You might want to tap into a good >university library or the Medieval Institute booklist to see what else is >in that monograph series. If you can't find the Institute's site easily, >email me. The Medieval Institute, of course, is the organization that runs >the Congress at Kalamazoo every year. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 13:55:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i97HtAYU015212 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 13:55:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97HsT3x013465 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:54:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97HsJDx076131; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:54:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.68]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97Hs4Dx075902 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:54:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from purplkat@optonline.net) Received: from optonline.net (mstr4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.15]) by mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTP id <0I5800GVF6WP4B@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 13:50:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [167.206.5.76] (Forwarded-For: [167.206.224.2]) by mstr4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mshttpd); Thu, 07 Oct 2004 13:50:49 -0400 Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 13:50:49 -0400 From: purplkat@optonline.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] vintage clothing sites? To: Historical Costume Message-id: <68ac55686597.68659768ac55@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: iPlanet Messenger Express 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-language: en Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO just a quick note : When you post an URL could you put http:// in front of the www... It makes it a clickable link for a lot of us. Thanks Katheryne ----- Original Message ----- From: E House > http://www.antiquedress.com is the one I check most often. Except--does > eBay count? > They have more vintage clothing for sale than any other single site I can think of, and even though the information with it is rarely to be trusted, it's still an amazing resource for those who feverishly collect images of extant clothing. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 13:56:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i97HucUb015231 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 13:56:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97Htx3x013639 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:56:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97HtwDx077509; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:55:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f14.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97HtuDx077405 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:55:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 10:55:07 -0700 Received: from 129.244.6.162 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 17:54:42 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.162] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 12:54:42 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Oct 2004 17:55:07.0210 (UTC) FILETIME=[C7E71AA0:01C4AC96] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: OT, for those with costume cats... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO We may wind up having to have ours declawed in front, which will irritate me a lot since they are both great about not tearing up the furniture, each other or us - they are both very good at NOT using their claws when playing, and don't want to use them on leather or fabric (although one of them really wants to be a shoemaker - she likes to play with the thread and eat the code). One of them keeps trying to claw up part of the carpet in front of the bedroom door (they aren't allowed in the bedroom) though, and if I get her declawed, they both get it. Anyone have any suggestions on non-declawing ways to deal with this please feel free to drop me a note offlist. Marc _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 14:30:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i97IUpS9015519 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 14:30:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97IU33x017265 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 12:30:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97ITsDx006388; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 12:29:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97ITqDx006253 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 12:29:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1CFd1K-000ESN-7l for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 18:29:42 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 19:28:37 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] miracle plays was Re: QEI in armor? References: <101101c4ac8e$ba0c0560$6d00a8c0@ches> In-Reply-To: <101101c4ac8e$ba0c0560$6d00a8c0@ches> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1;format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Chiara wrote >A few folks that I know are putting together just such a thing as a theme >for our next big event. Can you tell me where I can point them to for >documentation on this? > >For all three terms, miracle plays, mystery plays, and tableaux. > >Thank you! > > Chiara > `°ş¤ř,¸¸,ř¤ş°` >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Robin Netherton" >To: "Historical Costume" >Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 11:58 PM >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Queen Elizabeth in armor? > > >: >: On Thu, 7 Oct 2004, Kate Pinner wrote: >: >: > Yeah, mystery plays is what we call them; don't know if that's what they >: > called them. >: >: Yes, it's a period term. Another is "miracle plays," I think, but I >: remember "mystery" from my college textbooks on medieval drama. >: >: --Robin Interesting aside - a recent article in Medieval History magazine (which my husband has filed too high for me to reach and he's out!) indicated that "mystery" in this context was a corruption of "mastery", from the fact that the plays were put on by the guilds. Wish I could remember more - or reach the magazine :-( Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 14:35:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i97IZNCX015564 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 14:35:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97IXJ3x017697 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 12:33:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97IXJDx009280; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 12:33:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from alexander.concentric.com (alexander.concentric.com [207.155.248.157]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97IXGDx009252 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 12:33:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) Received: (root@localhost) by alexander.concentric.com id OAA18284; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 14:33:16 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.17] Message-ID: <200410071833.OAA18284@alexander.concentric.com> From: Julie To: Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 11:33:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i97IXGDx009252 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] OT Costume Cats X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ---------- From: Julie Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 14:23:04 -0400 (EDT) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: OT Costume Cats Mine haven't clawed fabric. They prefer couches :-(. Can't use the claw covers because I want them able to catch the mice/rats, etc., and they're INDOOR cats! They do like anything dangly and one of them likes warp threads on my looms. I've learned to cover things with towels when I leave. Out of sight... One thing I haven't been able to stop is my Bengal boy "christening" things. My husband favors a very permanent solution. Rajah's my little love, even with his naughtiness. I can't seem to find a rhyme or reason for it and it drives my hubby wild. Julie > Since so many of us seem to have the obligatory cat help with our sewing... > > If yer cat has a nasty habit of snagging your nice fabric with its claws, > those little plastic nail caps solve the problem wonderfully! There's > probably more than one company that makes them, but this is the only one I > know of: > http://www.softpaws.com > Not affiliated, yada. I believe PetSmart resells these, btw, but I just > order em. They can also be used for dogs, ferrets, etc. > > I've been using them for about 3 months, and since I started Judgement has > shed white hair all over everything, and once chewed up a few inches of > china silk, but she hasn't managed to snag a single thing, even with > tempting drapey gowns hung all over the living room waiting to be > photographed! =} _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 14:52:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i97IqTqF015744 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 14:52:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97Ikf3x019156 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 12:46:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97IkMDx019881; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 12:46:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-118.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97IkFDx019691 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 12:46:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by mail.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F31E6425DB for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 14:15:04 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <41658ED7.6020901@reddawn.net> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 13:45:43 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Soviet (female) military uniform References: <20041007171717.69354.qmail@web52703.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20041007171717.69354.qmail@web52703.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO tessalina wrote: > Help, please! > > I am trying to make a Halloween costume that is at least somewhat historically accurate... I already have a vintage Soviet military hat, I just need the rest of the costume to go along with it! Does anyone know a good *picture* book on Soviet military uniforms? Or just a book on Communist military uniforms in general? Maybe a website or two? Anything would be a great help! > You should be able to find the Osprey series at any bookstore or modelling/gaming hobby shop. They're highly regarded by military gaming enthusiasts as reliable sources for painting costumes on miniature soldiers. There are dozens of titles covering specific time periods, nations, military units, etc. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 14:58:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i97IwDq0015842 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 14:58:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97IqT3x020046 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 12:52:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97IqPDx024918; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 12:52:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail5.mdx.safepages.com (mail5.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97IqLDx024866 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 12:52:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail5.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 28CDA1CBEFC; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 18:51:16 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust157.tnt2.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.178.157]) by mail5.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 2BAB81CBF37 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 18:50:33 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <03a601c4ac9e$8c2b6180$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <68ac55686597.68659768ac55@optonline.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] vintage clothing sites? Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 13:50:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Apologies--I generaly do that, but my fur just got here and I'm excited! =} http://www.antiquedress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 15:37:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i97JbTM9016438 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 15:37:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97Jas3x025278 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 13:36:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97JapDx061169; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 13:36:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97JalDx061108 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 13:36:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hardcorps@earthlink.net) Received: from fozzie.psp.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.78.218]) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CFe4F-00044e-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 12:36:47 -0700 Message-ID: <24878367.1097177806995.JavaMail.root@fozzie.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 13:36:46 -0600 (GMT-06:00) From: Frank and Tracy Thallas To: Historical Costume Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Returning..... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello the List! I've been away a couple of years, but happy to be back.... Liadain "Hello. My Name is Liadain, and I am a blackworkaholic..........." _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 15:38:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i97Jc4uZ016449 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 15:38:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97JWV3x024817 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 13:32:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97JWQDx057530; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 13:32:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97JWMDx057425 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 13:32:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lauren.walker@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (h0006255ec5ea.ne.client2.attbi.com[66.31.43.36]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <20041007193217015003du27e>; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 19:32:17 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 15:31:13 -0400 From: Lauren Walker To: h-costume Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Hennin X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Princess pointy-hats are called hennins, yes? (Hats not my area.) Is there any other historically accurate name for them? The little princess in question doesn't like that word. Something French instead, maybe? Thanks! Lauren _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 16:11:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i97KBNji016950 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 16:11:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97K9Q3x029156 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 14:09:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97K9MDx089742; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 14:09:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail4.mdx.safepages.com (mail4.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.19]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97K9KDx089673 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 14:09:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail4.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id D3668268DE; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 20:09:17 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust157.tnt2.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.178.157]) by mail4.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id A9BA326859 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 20:08:00 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <03ad01c4aca9$5e2ca090$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20041007171717.69354.qmail@web52703.mail.yahoo.com> <41658ED7.6020901@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Soviet (female) military uniform Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 15:08:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have a 1950s male East German miiltary jacket I could photograph for you, if that would help at all. (Most hideous looking powder green thing ever, by the way.) -E _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 16:23:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i97KNl8x017185 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 16:23:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97KMn3x000752 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 14:22:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97KMlDx002575; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 14:22:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta9.adelphia.net (mta9.adelphia.net [68.168.78.199]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97KMZDx002356 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 14:22:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from homesewer@blazenet.net) Received: from computer ([68.67.236.226]) by mta9.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.02 201-2131-111-104-20040324) with SMTP id <20041007202229.INTE2497.mta9.adelphia.net@computer> for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 16:22:29 -0400 Message-ID: <007701c4acab$518b8660$e2ec4344@frdrmd.adelphia.net> From: "linda sterner" To: "Historical Costume" References: <24878367.1097177806995.JavaMail.root@fozzie.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Returning..... Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 16:22:07 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Please help me!!! I have changed my email address and I can`r get back on the list with my new email address!!! Thanks, Linda Sterner lindasterner@adelphia.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank and Tracy Thallas" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 3:36 PM Subject: [h-cost] Returning..... > > Hello the List! > > I've been away a couple of years, but happy to be back.... > > Liadain > "Hello. My Name is Liadain, and I am a blackworkaholic..........." > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 16:53:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i97KrILu017647 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 16:53:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97KqF3x004013 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 14:52:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97KqADx026581; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 14:52:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97Kq3Dx026447 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 14:52:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f7c.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.124]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 7699226280B for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 22:51:57 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000a01c4acaf$81a1dee0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hennin Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 22:52:06 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, As i understand it the word hennin is french. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lauren Walker" To: "h-costume" Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 9:31 PM Subject: [h-cost] Hennin > Princess pointy-hats are called hennins, yes? (Hats not my area.) Is there > any other historically accurate name for them? The little princess in > question doesn't like that word. Something French instead, maybe? > > Thanks! > Lauren > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 16:56:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i97KuB7l017690 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 16:56:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97Kta3x004384 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 14:55:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97KtUDx029457; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 14:55:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97KtQE0029382 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 14:55:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i97KqdTA028731 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 16:52:39 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 16:52:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4165AD3C.5080909@thibault.org> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 16:55:24 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hennin References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lauren Walker wrote: > Princess pointy-hats are called hennins, yes? (Hats not my area.) Is there > any other historically accurate name for them? The little princess in > question doesn't like that word. Something French instead, maybe? Most of us hat-mavens think that "hennin" is either mostly modern, or perjorative. We often use it anyway (it's on my car license plate!) Someone figured out (and posted) that the heart-shaped sort was called a "sella" in period, for "saddle." Seemed reasonable. It might be in the archives. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent (8.) The "independent and non-partisan" Commission on Presidential Debates is neither independent nor non-partisan. Walter Cronkite called CPD-sponsored debates an 'unconscionable fraud.' -- Connie Rice, NPR _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 17:05:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i97L5FFv017821 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 17:05:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97L4F3x005154 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 15:04:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97L49Dx036429; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 15:04:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97L3wDx036255 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 15:04:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95AB82C90B for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 16:03:58 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t3p110.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.220.112]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 8025BD3F3 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 16:03:57 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] OT Costume Cats Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 16:04:09 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <200410071833.OAA18284@alexander.concentric.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i97L3wDx036255 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My cats use the door frames. The spraying is marking of territory or their "pissed off" about something and letting you know it. I am assuming that they are spayed so I guess your SO's solution in get rid of the cat. :P My SO suggests the same thing from time to time. Sometimes the conversation goes. SO: Want a CAT (when one of the cats have wondered into "his" territory:) ). Me: I have two already do we need a third one? And so the debate ends. De -----Original Message----- (snip) One thing I haven't been able to stop is my Bengal boy "christening" things. My husband favors a very permanent solution. Rajah's my little love, even with his naughtiness. I can't seem to find a rhyme or reason for it and it drives my hubby wild. Julie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 19:59:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i97NxmHe020029 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 19:59:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97Nwx3x020909 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 17:58:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97NwmDx057182; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 17:58:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [206.170.184.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i97NwjDx057147 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 17:58:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lists@margospatterns.com) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r14a73.directcon.net [207.215.72.73]) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id i9805j414928 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 17:05:45 -0700 Message-ID: <00b901c4acc9$8baa1500$4948d7cf@dnyeaqvf> From: To: "Historical Costume" References: <100220041922.24444.415F0006000D1AEC00005F7C2200745672010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] (no subject) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 16:53:07 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Greetings everyone! Well, I've gotten to the point in my business where I've got to come up with a business plan. I've got no idea where to start, so I thought to turn to you lovely folks. I found "the Idiot's Guide to Business Plans" very helpful when I was writing mine. The Dummies series has one, too. The same series also have good books on starting businesses of various types. Margo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 20:12:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i980CRCT020168 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 20:12:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i980Bv3x021627 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 18:11:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i980BtDx064174; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 18:11:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [206.170.184.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i980BqDx064142 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 18:11:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lists@margospatterns.com) Received: from dnyeaqvf (r14a73.directcon.net [207.215.72.73]) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id i980Ir415391 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 17:18:53 -0700 Message-ID: <015001c4accb$613ad280$4948d7cf@dnyeaqvf> From: To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.1.1.0.20041004151614.00b13a60@64.87.54.245><5.2.1.1.0.20041004165304.02104b90@64.87.54.245> <5.2.1.1.0.20041004202843.0202dd58@64.87.54.245> Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 17:11:36 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Paging Kimiko Small X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry to use up bandwith, but your email isn't showing up for me... Kimiko, could you contact me at margo@margospatterns.com? I have something I'd like to ask you. Margo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 21:13:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i981DTjR021038 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 21:13:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i981Cs3x025625 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 19:12:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i981CoDx096603; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 19:12:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i981ClDx096540 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 19:12:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m187.in-tch.com [216.166.191.187]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i981BZc16448 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 19:11:35 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <4165EA9A.3060008@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 19:17:14 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Returning..... References: <24878367.1097177806995.JavaMail.root@fozzie.psp.pas.earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <24878367.1097177806995.JavaMail.root@fozzie.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It's good to "see" you! You live in Wyoming, don't you? You were recommended to me as an alltogether cool person and Fellow Insane Blackworker by a Outlands Laurel a few years ago. Welcome back! --sue/maire Frank and Tracy Thallas wrote: > Hello the List! > > I've been away a couple of years, but happy to be back.... > > Liadain > "Hello. My Name is Liadain, and I am a blackworkaholic..........." _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 21:34:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i981YJlC021680 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 21:34:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i981Xj3x027295 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 19:33:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i981XgDx008283; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 19:33:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i981XeDx008270 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 19:33:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hardcorps@earthlink.net) Received: from grover.psp.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.78.249]) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CFjdc-0000jh-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 18:33:40 -0700 Message-ID: <28886280.1097199220114.JavaMail.root@grover.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 19:33:40 -0600 (GMT-06:00) From: Frank and Tracy Thallas To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Returning..... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks! Always available off-list to discuss my addiction........ Liadain -----Original Message----- From: Sue Clemenger Sent: Oct 7, 2004 7:17 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Returning..... It's good to "see" you! You live in Wyoming, don't you? You were recommended to me as an alltogether cool person and Fellow Insane Blackworker by a Outlands Laurel a few years ago. Welcome back! --sue/maire Frank and Tracy Thallas wrote: > Hello the List! > > I've been away a couple of years, but happy to be back.... > > Liadain > "Hello. My Name is Liadain, and I am a blackworkaholic..........." _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 21:47:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i981lg32022407 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 21:47:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i981lC3x028163 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 19:47:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i981l9Dx014998; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 19:47:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i981l7Dx014921 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 19:47:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cozit@comcast.net) Received: from comcast.net (pcp04599099pcs.elictc01.md.comcast.net[68.55.87.127]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <2004100801470201300c3127e> (Authid: cozit); Fri, 8 Oct 2004 01:47:02 +0000 Message-ID: <4165F1B7.5010506@comcast.net> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 21:47:35 -0400 From: Cozit / Liz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <200410071757.i97HvPE0078667@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: <200410071757.i97HvPE0078667@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Elizabeth in armor... and mystery plays X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Not the one I was thinking of. It *may* not be one of Elizabeth that I have in my head... but it is a posed "formal" looking portrait, only the breast plate worn of the armor, over a "regular" dress. I'm wishing I could see in my head what she's holding or pointing to.... And, btw, they *are* mystery plays... and I'm leaning towards the word tableaux... but still thinking it was something else (because to me, tableaux are the semi-staged poses that were set up at times by women in the early 19th century... though I know that there are other forms as well). Thanks, anyway! -Elisabeth >From: seamstrix@juno.com > > >It's called 'Queen Elizabeth and the Three Goddesses' and it's fairly >well known. But Queen E is not the one in armor. The goddess >Minerva/Athena is wearing a pseudo-Roman breastplate. The picture is an >allegory of Elizabeth "defeating" the three goddesses (of Trojan War >fame) by combining all of their attributes in one person (Athena=wisdom, >Juno=rulership/power, Venus=beauty/love). If you are planning on wearing >the armor in a masque of some sort, you are in the right area. If you are >looking to design an armor that a real Elizabethan might have worn, you >will need to look elsewhere. > > >Karen > >On Thu, 7 Oct 2004 09:04:46 -0500 "Chiara" writes: > > >>That is way too small for me to get any real detail out of it. What >>is the >>name of the portrait and where could I find it? >> >>If you have not guessed it by now, yes, I am making armour. >> >> Chiara >> `°ş¤ř,¸¸,ř¤ş°` >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "otsisto" >> >>: Is it possible that you are thinking of this portrait? >>: >>: http://ladysarafina.home.att.net/liz3goddesses.JPG >>: >>: I'll see If I can get a better picture. >>: >>: De >>: >>: -----Original Message----- >>: I don't remember ever seeing a picture of her in full armor, but I >>could >>: have sworn that there was one out there with her wearing a >>breastplate >>: to her specs... similar to some of our "Lady Liberty" pictures, >>though >>: with the Elizabethian skirt. I could be completely mistaken, of >>course. >>: >>: -Elisabeth >>: >> > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 22:58:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i982wC07023353 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 22:58:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i982vU3x003125 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 20:57:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i982vIDx050356; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 20:57:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp813.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp813.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.170.83]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i982vGDx050339 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 20:57:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lizyoung@fenris.net) Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (glenn.mcgregor@sbcglobal.net@67.126.215.182 with plain) by smtp813.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Oct 2004 02:57:15 -0000 Message-ID: <41660211.6040703@fenris.net> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 19:57:21 -0700 From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] miracle plays was Re: QEI in armor? References: <101101c4ac8e$ba0c0560$6d00a8c0@ches> In-Reply-To: <101101c4ac8e$ba0c0560$6d00a8c0@ches> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Chiara wrote: > A few folks that I know are putting together just such a thing as a theme > for our next big event. Can you tell me where I can point them to for > documentation on this? > > For all three terms, miracle plays, mystery plays, and tableaux. > check the Orb, peer reviewed reputable information, many pages also hve bibio infom for instance, here http://www.the-orb.net/encyclop/culture/towns/florilegium/cmevnt_i.html liz young _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 23:06:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9836oOK023459 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 23:06:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i983533x003800 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 21:05:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98351Dx054447; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 21:05:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-04.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-04.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9834vDx054420 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 21:04:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sherylnd@kc.rr.com) Received: from oemcomputer.kc.rr.com (CPE-65-30-107-115.kc.rr.com [65.30.107.115]) by ms-smtp-04.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.12.8p1/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i982wWpU000290 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 21:58:35 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20041007221729.00a1f1b0@pop-server.kc.rr.com> X-Sender: sherylnd@pop-server.kc.rr.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 22:18:18 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Sheryl Nance-Durst Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: OT, for those with costume cats... In-Reply-To: <037401c4ac91$671b1500$0400a8c0@compaqub> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mine just likes anything that makes a crinkle noise, so I have trouble with him attacking the tissue paper patterns! Sheryl N-D _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 23:07:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9837ufN023468 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 23:07:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9832H3x003550 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 21:02:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9832BDx052953; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 21:02:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.129]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98329Dx052915 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 21:02:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sherylnd@kc.rr.com) Received: from oemcomputer.kc.rr.com (CPE-65-30-107-115.kc.rr.com [65.30.107.115]) by ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i98320jG021846 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 22:02:06 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20041007220801.00a199f0@pop-server.kc.rr.com> X-Sender: sherylnd@pop-server.kc.rr.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 22:15:27 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Sheryl Nance-Durst Subject: Re: [h-cost] vintage clothing sites? In-Reply-To: <038301c4ac95$7209b580$0400a8c0@compaqub> References: <4.3.1.2.20040929113805.02542ed8@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:45 PM 10/7/04 -0500, you wrote: >www.antiquedress.com is the one I check most often. Yep. Love that one. Some of my other favorites are: http://www.antique-fashion.com/ http://www.vintagetextile.com/ http://www.thefrock.com/ (Sometimes I question the dating on this site.) http://hemlockvintage.com/ http://cti.itc.virginia.edu/~dress/ Of course, I've never ordered anything from any of the commercial sites. They're my favs because of the pics! Sheryl Nance-Durst _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 7 23:25:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i983Pqa5023712 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 23:25:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i983PO3x005274 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 21:25:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i983PLDx064749; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 21:25:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m23.mx.aol.com (imo-m23.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i983PGDx064677 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 21:25:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Kitsune242@aol.com) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.7.) id 6.1dc.2d4f3ae2 (4340) for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 23:25:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Kitsune242@aol.com Message-ID: <1dc.2d4f3ae2.2e97628e@aol.com> Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 23:25:02 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Alteryears To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10712 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 10/3/2004 8:36:03 PM Pacific Standard Time, otsisto@socket.net writes: > Have you tried their website? > > De Yes, on a couple of occasions. The e-mail is always bounced back. Kit If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - Kenneth Cole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 8 00:08:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9848T1L024038 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 00:08:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9847r3x008361 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Oct 2004 22:07:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9847nDx085936; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 22:07:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from indirectobject.com (066-241-084-045.bus.ashlandfiber.net [66.241.84.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9847eDx085823 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 22:07:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rreed@indirectobject.com) Message-Id: <200410080407.i9847eDx085823@net.indra.com> Received: from synergy ([192.168.1.1]) by indirectobject.com (WWW [192.168.1.200]) (MDaemon.PRO.v6.8.5.R) with ESMTP id 13-md50000000005.tmp for ; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 21:10:15 -0700 From: To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 21:06:50 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 Thread-Index: AcSs58Som6CdR09VQ9W6I2lFIBGglQABD+nA In-Reply-To: <1dc.2d4f3ae2.2e97628e@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Processed: WWW, Thu, 07 Oct 2004 21:10:15 -0700 (not processed: message from valid local sender) X-MDRemoteIP: 192.168.1.1 X-Return-Path: rreed@indirectobject.com X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Alteryears Contact Info X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here's a message I saved from several months ago as people were having trouble reaching AlterYears then as well. Good luck. Becky ----- Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 22:53:09 -0500 From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Subject: [h-cost] Re: Alter Years To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040510225038.02241f18@pop.radiks.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Direct from Janet, by way of a flyer posted on ICG-D: >Here's the text of the flyer Janet was giving out at "Festival of the West" >announcing the new contact information for AlterYears: >__________________________ > >AlterYears is Changing! >We're moving out of the store and going to Mail Order and Will Call effective >April 1. > >New Numbers: Phone (626) 569-9179 Fax (626) 569-9099 > >New Hours: Mon Noon-4 pm, Tues, Weds, Fri - 10 am-5:30 pm, Thurs 10 am - 7:30 >pm, Sat by appointment. > >Mail Order - works just as it always has: Call us with your order and we ship >it out. > >(pencilled in) PO Box 98, Rosemead CA 91770 > >Will Call - Call us with your order; we will pullit from the warehouse and >have it ready for you to pick up - usually the next working day. Pick-up >address: 8553 Village Ln, Rosemead CA > >Need to look at stuff to decide? Call us and make an appointment for us to >take you to the warehouse. > >Questions? Call Us! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 8 04:05:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9885rNG002539 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 04:05:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i988573x022540 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Oct 2004 02:05:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9884rDx093887; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 02:04:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk ([193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9884kDx093596 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 02:04:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i98849a24507.; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 09:04:09 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 08 Oct 2004 09:04:09 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 09:03:45 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] miracle plays was Re: QEI in armor? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, the Coventry cycle are also mystery plays; one includes the well-known "Coventry Carol" in which the women sing of Herod's threatened massacre of baby boys. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> suzi@suziclarke.co.uk 07/10/2004 18:47:31 >>> Hello I'm Suzi Clarke, a professional costume maker, and i live and work in London, England. As Robin says different towns would put on mystery plays. The famous ones still performed here are the "York Mysteries" and, I think, Coventry, (although that might be mummers, in which case the play is probably about St. George and the Dragon.) Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 8 06:16:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i98AGpib028303 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 06:16:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98AGE3x008769 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Oct 2004 04:16:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98AGADx048149; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 04:16:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from alpha2.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (alpha2.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.0.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98AG7Dx048099 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 04:16:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 11:16:01 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: RE: [h-cost] OT, for those with costume cats... To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3B75@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] OT, for those with costume cats... Thread-Index: AcSsl5LC7XF6f4gdQjSX90jLNP8CMAAhtJ0w content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.20 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > <<>I have a problem with the 2-year-old cat that wants > to lie right behind my machine and bat at the needle as it > goes up and down. > > > I had a cat that used to do that too! She "cured" Herself > of that problem when the needle actually caught her once. > Once was all it took. After that she was perfectly content > to sit behind the machine and purr along with it as I sewed. What amazes me is all you people who allow your cats on the table. We've never allowed our cats to jump up on the tables. Thre floor and seats, yes but not tables and counter-tops. Our current cat came to us when she was eigth and had obviously been allowed to jump onto tables and counters in her previous place, but we soon trained her out of it (even if it did mean having a spray-bottle full of water or a loaded water-pistol handy for a few weeks until she got the message) Yes, being a cat, she still tries it occasionally (and she *knows* it's wrong, judgign by the guilty look and scramble to get off the table when we walk in) but 90% of the time she doesn't even try jumpoing up > She still jumped on fabric, as I was cutting out garb. But > we finally trained her to be a patternweight for me instead > for getting upset about it. It did get to be frustrating > though because of the battles to get her *off* of each piece > when I needed to cut another one though.. We have certain rooms the cats aren't allowed in - Tom's art studeo (cats and oil paints do not mix well) the sewign room, the spare bedroom (lots of cat allergic friends who couldn't' stay over if the spare room wasn't cat free) and the fabric store room. Trhe doors of these rooms are kept shut when we aren't in them and if the cat tries to wander in while we're in there with the door open, her name said in the right tone is enough to get her to turn right around and wander back out again. I love cats, but do not believe in letting them get away with doing stuff they aren't allowed to do. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 8 06:21:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i98ALVFr028382 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 06:21:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98AKx3x009848 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Oct 2004 04:20:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98AKxDx050151; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 04:20:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from outbound1.logical.net (outbound1.logical.net [209.23.116.93]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98AKuE0050118 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 04:20:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from homeec@telenet.net) Received: from computername (ip-209-23-17-148.modem.logical.net [209.23.17.148]) by outbound1.logical.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id i98AKlSq019304 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 06:20:53 -0400 Message-ID: <005201c4ad20$7d394340$941117d1@computername> From: "Home Ec" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.2.7.2.20041007075601.00b57610@pop.fuse.net><1097152267.4165370be57f0@webmail.logical.net> <00a601c4ac82$61abee00$cb6afea9@sherry> Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 06:20:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] costume cats & hoop skirts X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Does anyone have the trouble I have had with cats who think getting under a hoop skirt is great fun? Always makes hemming one interesting. Rowena _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 8 06:42:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i98Ag7oS028659 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 06:42:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98AfV3x011664 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Oct 2004 04:41:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98AfUDx059482; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 04:41:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net (smtp2.suscom.net [64.78.83.231]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98AeoE0059166 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 04:40:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (smtp2.suscom.net [127.0.0.1]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88E9D1CDD46 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 06:35:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp2 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 09515-10 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 06:35:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip194.182.235.64.susc.suscom.net [64.235.182.194]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 6B4331CDD4A for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 06:35:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <017301c4ad23$3ce88af0$c2b6eb40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.2.7.2.20041007075601.00b57610@pop.fuse.net><1097152267.4165370be57f0@webmail.logical.net><00a601c4ac82$61abee00$cb6afea9@sherry> <005201c4ad20$7d394340$941117d1@computername> Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume cats & hoop skirts Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 06:40:32 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Home Ec" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 6:20 AM Subject: [h-cost] costume cats & hoop skirts > Does anyone have the trouble I have had with cats who think getting under a > hoop skirt is great fun? Always makes hemming one interesting. Rowena I keep my farthingale on my dress dummy most of the time. My children think it's a great place to hide! Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 8 06:43:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i98AhBEl028678 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 06:43:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98Ack3x011524 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Oct 2004 04:38:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98AchDx058155; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 04:38:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98AccE0058103 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 04:38:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i98AZoTA031637 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 06:35:50 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Fri, 08 Oct 2004 06:35:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <41666E2B.1020400@thibault.org> Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 06:38:35 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT, for those with costume cats... References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3B75@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3B75@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Teddy wrote: > We've never allowed our cats to jump up on the tables. Me, neither, but often when I cut things out, it's on the floor. Mine have verbal commands for "get off" and "stay away" which they obey most of the time, as long as there's not fabric involved! (There's also a special one for "if you want to be petted, come over here.) -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent (8.) The "independent and non-partisan" Commission on Presidential Debates is neither independent nor non-partisan. Walter Cronkite called CPD-sponsored debates an 'unconscionable fraud.' -- Connie Rice, NPR _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 8 06:48:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i98AmJs8028738 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 06:48:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98Alh3x011958 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Oct 2004 04:47:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98AlhDx062152; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 04:47:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grunt10.ihug.co.nz (grunt10.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98AlfDx062071 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 04:47:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from p243-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.192.243] by grunt10.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CFsHZ-0007Xi-00; Fri, 08 Oct 2004 23:47:29 +1300 Message-ID: <001101c4ad24$306834a0$f3c0adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.2.7.2.20041007075601.00b57610@pop.fuse.net><1097152267.4165370be57f0@webmail.logical.net><00a601c4ac82$61abee00$cb6afea9@sherry> <005201c4ad20$7d394340$941117d1@computername> Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume cats & hoop skirts Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 23:47:06 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Does anyone have the trouble I have had with cats who think getting under a > hoop skirt is great fun? Always makes hemming one interesting. Rowena http://costumes.glittersweet.com/sca/farthingale2.jpg He's under my test farthingale.. which he later sprayed (thank goodness he's fixed or it would have been a real problem...) The gown is slowly coming together, I just ironed the sleeves tonight. http://costumes.glittersweet.com/sca/valois.htm That's the gown in question:) As for disciplining him... he chooses to jump on the counter where there is no one around.. he won't do it when we are around... it's his method of attracting attention we think. If there was a tried and true method for getting him to stop we haven't found it. Water guns from us lurking around the corner.. lemon juice on the bench... it just doesn't work.. even ignoring him when he pushes a bowl or cup to the floor (ceramic tiled!) doesn't work. Deaf cats.... I dunno.... All the crazy of a normal cat times ten;) (just don't ask me how I worry about him every day) michaela de bruce http://glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 8 07:19:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i98BJeYR029078 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 07:19:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98BJ43x013743 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Oct 2004 05:19:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98BIuDx076141; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 05:18:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imail.aebc.com (dslgwmail.aebc.com [209.53.197.242]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98BIrDx076109 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 05:18:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gusgus@lightspeed.ca) Received: from dslgw2.aebc.com [209.53.208.35] by imail.aebc.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A839242A0034; Fri, 08 Oct 2004 04:21:29 -0700 Received: from GUSGUS.lightspeed.ca ([10.100.34.151]) by dslgw2.aebc.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i98CcsFF065079 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 05:38:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gusgus@lightspeed.ca) Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.0.20041008041603.01def180@pop.lightspeed.ca> X-Sender: gusgus@pop.lightspeed.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 04:19:45 -0700 To: h-costume@net.indra.com From: Dan and Heather Stecher Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-3B5A5854; boundary="=======2D2D1988=======" X-Declude-Sender: gusgus@lightspeed.ca [209.53.208.35] X-Declude-Spoolname: D7839242a00344600.SMD X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Medieval Children X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --=======2D2D1988======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-3B5A5854; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Greetings All, I am looking for extant items related to the lives of children 600AD -1650AD anywhere in the world. If you know of such items, particularly clothing items, I would be grateful to hear of their whereabouts. At your service, Heather Stecher --=======2D2D1988======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-avg=cert; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-3B5A5854 Content-Disposition: inline --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.774 / Virus Database: 521 - Release Date: 10/7/2004 --=======2D2D1988======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --=======2D2D1988=======-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 8 07:34:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i98BYfsm029309 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 07:34:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98BX83x014422 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Oct 2004 05:33:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98BX6Dx082387; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 05:33:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.204]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i98BWsDx082225 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 05:33:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Oct 2004 11:32:49 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041008122929.01460288@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 12:33:02 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval Children In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20041008041603.01def180@pop.lightspeed.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 04:19 08/10/2004 -0700, you wrote: >Greetings All, > > I am looking for extant items related to the lives of children > 600AD -1650AD anywhere in the world. >If you know of such items, particularly clothing items, I would be >grateful to hear of their whereabouts. > > At your service, > Heather Stecher In the museum at Chartres in France there is a beautiful red arming jack. It is child size and I have photos, but unfortunately cannot post right now, owing to a technical hitch, possibly to be fixed next week. There is also a tiny "?brigandine" also in red, and I think I have a photo of that too. As I am new to the list, I don't know if I am allowed to post my e-mail address for you to contact me for further information when the hitch is de-hitched. Suzi in London _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 8 07:48:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i98BmoJt029553 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 07:48:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98Bm53x015635 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Oct 2004 05:48:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98Bm2Dx089337; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 05:48:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from oldntserver.stoneage.mglarc.com ([212.17.54.27]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98BlxDx089187 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 05:47:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lstrid@mglarc.com) Received: by rfc1918.space.should.not.be.used.on.publicips with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) id ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 12:47:43 +0100 Message-ID: <87A506E53AFF4C4CB2C565044BA209E743DC67@rfc1918.space.should.not.be.used.on.publicips> From: Lena Strid To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Medieval Children Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 12:47:36 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Heather, I assume you are aware of the children's garments from Herjolfsnes. These are the only children's clothes I can recall. The museum in Lund, Sweden, has a medieval child's chair. Unfortunately I can't find an image of it in their exhibition database (http://www.kulturen.com/Metropolis/Asp/index.asp?todo=search). However, if you write Leksak (= toy) in the Foremal category of the database, you'll come up with lots of things. An online dictionary should make most of the text clear, unless you speak Swedish, in which case you don't need to use one. Have you tried contacting various museums (national and regional) and asking them what they have in their collections? May I ask what you want this information for? I have not been on the list for very long, so apologies if this has come up before. /Lena -----Original Message----- From: Dan and Heather Stecher [mailto:gusgus@lightspeed.ca] Sent: 08 October 2004 12:20 To: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Medieval Children Greetings All, I am looking for extant items related to the lives of children 600AD -1650AD anywhere in the world. If you know of such items, particularly clothing items, I would be grateful to hear of their whereabouts. At your service, Heather Stecher ================================================= Margaret Gowen & Co. Ltd. Archaeological Consultants & Project Managers 2 Killiney View Tel: 01-2300433 Albert Road Lower Fax: 01-2300865 Glenageary e-mail: archaeology@mglarc.com Co. Dublin website: http://www.mglarc.com ================================================= CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email is private and confidential and may contain legally privileged information. 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NOTE Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company or its associated companies unless otherwise specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 8 08:04:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i98C45t6029816 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 08:04:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98C3V3x016642 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Oct 2004 06:03:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98C3TDx096404; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 06:03:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98C3OE0096351 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 06:03:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i98C0aTA031908 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 08:00:36 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Fri, 08 Oct 2004 08:00:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4166820A.4080306@thibault.org> Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 08:03:22 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval Children References: <6.1.2.0.0.20041008041603.01def180@pop.lightspeed.ca> In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20041008041603.01def180@pop.lightspeed.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There are several items in the _Medieval Children_ book by Orme, but I expect you have that one already. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent (8.) The "independent and non-partisan" Commission on Presidential Debates is neither independent nor non-partisan. Walter Cronkite called CPD-sponsored debates an 'unconscionable fraud.' -- Connie Rice, NPR _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 8 09:13:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i98DDGhZ031138 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 09:13:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98DCf3x020278 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Oct 2004 07:12:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98DCYDx030260; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 07:12:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065d23.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065d23.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.254]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98DCVDx030246 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 07:12:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.100]) by pop-a065d23.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CFuXv-0000WW-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 08 Oct 2004 06:12:31 -0700 Message-ID: <41669241.7040107@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 06:12:33 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT, for those with costume cats... References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3B75@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3B75@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO We have the no surface rule as well, except I do let mine sleep on the my ironing board...stupid I know...I do have to clean it before using it, but I have two...."sew" I cheat a little. It makes for good entertainment sometimes. On several occasions he has fallen asleep and then rolled right off the board....the look in his eyes when he is hanging off the board or picking himself up off the floor! Either scared to death or embarrassed--Hysterical! Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 8 09:29:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i98DThca031427 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 09:29:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98DOD3x020791 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Oct 2004 07:24:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98DOBDx035689; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 07:24:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay15-f16.bay15.hotmail.com [65.54.185.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98DOADx035643 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 07:24:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elena_4557@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 06:24:03 -0700 Received: from 24.16.244.181 by by15fd.bay15.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 08 Oct 2004 13:23:58 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.16.244.181] X-Originating-Email: [elena_4557@hotmail.com] X-Sender: elena_4557@hotmail.com From: "Elena O'Tighearnaigh Atha An Ri" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] OT, for those with costume cats... Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 06:23:58 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Oct 2004 13:24:03.0785 (UTC) FILETIME=[148F2390:01C4AD3A] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Teddy! I do know what you mean. My cat *used* to jump on my cutting table and ironing board. Jumping on the ironing board was a problem until until it fell over (with a little motherly assist). Then for the cutting table, it was simply a case of something sticky on the table and she learned that it was not a 'nice' place for her delicate little paws! *giggle* Nothing chemical or nasty, just a little spray adhesive that I had to use on some fabric once.. You shoulda seen the look of disgust she gave me! >From: Teddy >Reply-To: Historical Costume >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: RE: [h-cost] OT, for those with costume cats... >Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 11:16:01 +0100 > >I love cats, but do not believe in letting them get away with doing >stuff they aren't allowed to do. > >Teddy >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Elena O'Tighearnaigh A'tha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares Gia Gavino _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 8 09:51:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i98Dp4IM031801 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 09:51:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98DoY3x022313 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Oct 2004 07:50:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98DoWDx047653; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 07:50:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from alpha2.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (alpha2.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.0.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98DoUDx047627 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 07:50:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 14:50:28 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: RE: [h-cost] OT, for those with costume cats... To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3B7C@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] OT, for those with costume cats... Thread-Index: AcStL1JmGvNFcumhTB+Viceys7PAJQADg6xg content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.20 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Teddy wrote: > > We've never allowed our cats to jump up on the tables. > > Me, neither, but often when I cut things out, it's on the floor. Mine > have verbal commands for "get off" and "stay away" which they obey most > of the time, as long as there's not fabric involved! (There's also a > special one for "if you want to be petted, come over here.) I cut out on the floor too - but of one of the rooms the cats (currently cat) aren't allowed into. I would live in horror of having a cat like one of Missa Heischberg's ones who jumps up behind the machine and sticks his head through the gap between the main body and the machine and the needle arm while she's sewing.... Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 8 10:31:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i98EVEOJ032232 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 10:31:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98EPW3x025159 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Oct 2004 08:25:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98EPJDx068580; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 08:25:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98EPGDx068495 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 08:25:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (c-24-21-147-231.client.comcast.net [24.21.147.231]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i98EPAK03221 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 10:25:10 -0400 Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 07:22:28 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval Children Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20041008041603.01def180@pop.lightspeed.ca> Message-Id: <7C0F33B7-1935-11D9-BC30-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, look at Frankish Royal Tombs in the Cathedral of Cologne and Saint-Denis, Antiquity, XXXVIII, 1964, pgs 201-216. There are images of a child's helmet in the Saracen style, a chair and a bed. Althea On Friday, October 8, 2004, at 04:19 AM, Dan and Heather Stecher wrote: > Greetings All, > > I am looking for extant items related to the lives of children > 600AD -1650AD anywhere in the world. > If you know of such items, particularly clothing items, I would be > grateful to hear of their whereabouts. Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com I think, therefore I'm dangerous. I'll be Post-Feminist in a Post-Patriarchy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 8 11:34:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i98FYUlo000560 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 11:34:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98FXv3x002294 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Oct 2004 09:33:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98FXnDx021239; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 09:33:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.netspace.net.au (cumulus.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.72]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98FXiDx021025 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 09:33:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from stilskin@netspace.net.au) Received: from localhost (sprinkle.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.77]) by mail.netspace.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6B486B65B for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 01:33:33 +1000 (EST) Received: from 220-253-120-251.VIC.netspace.net.au (220-253-120-251.VIC.netspace.net.au [220.253.120.251]) by webmail.netspace.net.au (IMP) with HTTP for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 01:33:33 +1000 Message-ID: <1097249613.4166b34d996c2@webmail.netspace.net.au> Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 01:33:33 +1000 From: stilskin@netspace.net.au To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Soviet (female) military uniform MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ... I already have a vintage Soviet military hat, I just > need the rest of the costume to go along with it! Does anyone know a good > *picture* book on Soviet military uniforms? What you want is a 3D look...try the James Bond movie The Spy Who Loved Me. Barbara Bach wears a fairly close to real although girlied-up one, -C. ------------------------------------------------------------ This email was sent from Netspace Webmail: http://www.netspace.net.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 8 12:52:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i98GqV1L002072 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 12:52:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98Gpg3x010349 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Oct 2004 10:51:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98GpYDx086840; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 10:51:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.78]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98GntDx085457 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 10:50:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from purplkat@optonline.net) Received: from optonline.net (mstr4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.15]) by mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTP id <0I5900APWYR6Z0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 08 Oct 2004 12:49:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [167.206.5.53] (Forwarded-For: [167.206.224.2]) by mstr4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mshttpd); Fri, 08 Oct 2004 12:49:54 -0400 Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 12:49:54 -0400 From: purplkat@optonline.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume cats & hoop skirts To: Historical Costume Message-id: <6b00456ac279.6ac2796b0045@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: iPlanet Messenger Express 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-language: en Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I thought my cat was the only crazy one doing that. Made checking hte hem and drape of the skirt a little hard. Kat ----- Original Message ----- From: michaela > > Does anyone have the trouble I have had with cats who think getting under a hoop skirt is great fun? Always makes hemming one interesting. > Rowena > > http://costumes.glittersweet.com/sca/farthingale2.jpg > He's under my test farthingale.. which he later sprayed (thank goodness he's fixed or it would have been a real problem...) > michaela de bruce _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 8 14:14:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i98IEqQk003694 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 14:14:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98IE43x019504 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Oct 2004 12:14:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98IDtDx055604; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 12:13:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm29.prodigy.net (ylpvm29-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98IDnDx055543 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 12:13:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-70-198.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.70.198]) by ylpvm29.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98IDS3x025649 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 14:13:30 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20041008105251.03859888@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 10:56:34 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: cat off counter (was Re: [h-cost] costume cats & hoop skirts In-Reply-To: <001101c4ad24$306834a0$f3c0adcb@michaela> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20041007075601.00b57610@pop.fuse.net> <1097152267.4165370be57f0@webmail.logical.net> <00a601c4ac82$61abee00$cb6afea9@sherry> <005201c4ad20$7d394340$941117d1@computername> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >As for disciplining him... he chooses to jump on the counter where there is >no one around.. he won't do it when we are around... it's his method of >attracting attention we think. If there was a tried and true method for >getting him to stop we haven't found it. > >Water guns from us lurking around the corner.. lemon juice on the bench... >it just doesn't work.. even ignoring him when he pushes a bowl or cup to the >floor (ceramic tiled!) doesn't work. Put 4" loops sticky tape, sticky side out, along the edge of the counter. After a couple of times of getting stuck, the cat may change his mind about jumping on the counter. OCC: use loops of sticky tape, sticky side out, for the removal of cat hair from costumes. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 8 14:25:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i98IPMtE003890 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 14:25:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98IEl3x019594 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Oct 2004 12:14:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98IEkDx056346; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 12:14:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm29.prodigy.net (ylpvm29-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98IDnDx055536 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 12:13:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-70-198.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.70.198]) by ylpvm29.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98IDS3v025649 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 14:13:29 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20041008104929.03848d30@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 10:51:47 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume cats & hoop skirts In-Reply-To: <005201c4ad20$7d394340$941117d1@computername> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20041007075601.00b57610@pop.fuse.net> <1097152267.4165370be57f0@webmail.logical.net> <00a601c4ac82$61abee00$cb6afea9@sherry> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Does anyone have the trouble I have had with cats who think getting under >a hoop skirt is great fun? Always makes hemming one interesting. Rowena One of ours doesn't require a hoop to want to get under the floor-length hem of any garment I put on my dress form. She's too old to think it's an adventure, so she doesn't attack the hem or run in and out, but she does like to explore under there or hide from the other cat. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 8 14:33:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i98IXswt004052 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 14:33:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98IVu3x021310 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Oct 2004 12:31:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98IVtDx069524; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 12:31:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web13424.mail.yahoo.com (web13424.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.155]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i98IVpDx069485 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 12:31:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mara@rileyhome.net) Message-ID: <20041008183151.57306.qmail@web13424.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [205.153.36.170] by web13424.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 08 Oct 2004 11:31:51 PDT X-RocketYMMF: corbiegirl Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 11:31:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Mara Riley To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] OT: Costuming pets X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO No costuming cats in my house -- I'm VERY allergic. However, when I was a teenager, my mom's dog just _had_ to come sit on the fabric every time I was cutting something out on the floor. So dogs aren't exempt from the costume-interference thing. Speaking of animals swallowing things, someone mentioned their cat swallowing thread. That story reminded me of the time that one of my dogs swallowed a strip of chamois leather that I'd cut to use as stay binding. When he tried to pass it, the leather strip just hung there... He ran around the yard in a semi-crouch, with that "HELP ME!" look on his face. I laughed, went to get my gardening gloves, and rescued him from the horrible leather thing. Silly boy... And it does seem to be a rule that no matter what color you're wearing, your pets will shed a contrasting color. Doesn't help that my two current dogs are black/white and black/tan, respectively. -- Mara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 8 14:44:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i98IiTh5004268 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 14:44:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98Ihq3x022240 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Oct 2004 12:43:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98IhjDx078751; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 12:43:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from simmts5-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts5.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.163]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98IhhDx078718 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 12:43:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([67.68.136.28]) by simmts5-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with SMTP id <20041008184117.OOIB1635.simmts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 14:41:17 -0400 Message-ID: <003901c4ad65$bd05e9c0$cb6afea9@sherry> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.2.7.2.20041007075601.00b57610@pop.fuse.net><1097152267.4165370be57f0@webmail.logical.net><00a601c4ac82$61abee00$cb6afea9@sherry> <4.3.1.2.20041008104929.03848d30@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume cats & hoop skirts Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 14:29:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Both of mine seem to love the feeling of fabric, the calico will even sit while I'm practicing my dancing *just* where my skirts will brush up against her, eyes squinting and a big smile on her face. The black one likes to hide/nap under whatever happens to be on my dress form. Both of them love it if I drop a veil over top of them, they seem to think I can't see them even though they can see me. :-) Sheridan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" < > One of ours doesn't require a hoop to want to get under the floor-length > hem of any garment I put on my dress form. She's too old to think it's an > adventure, so she doesn't attack the hem or run in and out, but she does > like to explore under there or hide from the other cat. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 8 15:26:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i98JQn0T005010 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 15:26:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98JQB3x026292 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Oct 2004 13:26:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98JQ6Dx011512; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 13:26:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web52706.mail.yahoo.com (web52706.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.157]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i98JPfDx011097 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 13:25:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sorepaws@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20041008192535.90631.qmail@web52706.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.18.118.196] by web52706.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 08 Oct 2004 12:25:35 PDT Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 12:25:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Lil Sorepaws To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200410081802.i98I2XE1046493@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] OT Costumes and Cats ... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I had to delurk for this one ... ;) Sewing anywhere outside the basement in my house is an adventure (the basement is "kitty-free" because there are too many things that could fall over on them and make em go splat .. its mainly storage although Matti will say its fairly organized ;)since I have 4 kitties (at one point it was 6) and they all love to lay on fabric, play with pattern papers, make the pins scatter across the floor, and otherwise just "play" with the project. One time I made the mistake of not putting away a pattern I was ironing while I took a break for a quick trip to the loo .. when I came back, it was snowing in the kitchen above my ironing board and a big blue eyed fluffball batted at the crunchy crinkly snowflakes of paper as the others watched, mezmirized! Its a house rule that any fabric will duly be napped upon, the lighter colored or more "fuzzy" the more hairy it ends up! But the main reason I had to delurk was to share a funny little "situation" .. that same Blue Eyed Devil that ruined the pattern I was ironing, is a bit of a crinoline kitty. Any time I am trying to photograph things for posting on ebay, he feels the need to "try them on", especially the crinoline skirts .. I even have photos of him taking a big nap in an extra full wedding crinoline .. not on it, IN it!! If I hunt them down, I'll share .. its pretty hilarious ;) Since most of the fabric I sew with is not delicate, they have never snagged that, but my ebay gowns have occasionally fallen victim to one of the cats deciding to snag, claw, or use one as a launching pad (only one is declawed and that is just in front) .. or chew on the beaded gowns (GRRRRRRRR!!!) .. I had to "re-work" a simple red satin gown into something else entirely after I found claw marks in at least 3 places .. guess one of them didn't like that shade of red! ;) Anyone else have cats who like to CHEW on plastic, patterns, or beaded trim?!? - Lil (kitty herder, fur gatherer, dustybunny breeder from hell ;) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 8 15:43:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i98Jh3sO005297 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 15:43:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98JbM3x027589 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Oct 2004 13:37:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98JbJDx020556; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 13:37:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-118.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98JbHDx020435 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 13:37:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by mail.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51C40425DB for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 15:06:24 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4166EC65.3060103@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 14:37:09 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] cotehardies and gothic dress yardages X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Can anyone tell me how much yardage I should buy for a man's and a woman's costume? I've never made one before, and I am having an awful time finding a web source that gives an estimated yardage for 14th century clothing. I'm anticipating needing material for the undershirt/tunic/dress and the outer garment plus lining. I need to purchase the fabric before I draft the patterns, unfortunately. Help is appreciated. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 8 16:26:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i98KQwjb005948 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 16:26:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98KQK3x002047 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Oct 2004 14:26:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98KQCDx058497; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 14:26:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav26.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.83]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98KQ8Dx058371 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 14:26:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 13:26:00 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by bay9-dav26.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 08 Oct 2004 20:25:00 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <83.18033977.2e967ce2@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT, for those with costume cats... Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 16:25:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Oct 2004 20:26:00.0625 (UTC) FILETIME=[06925A10:01C4AD75] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Boy, it's a good thing I don't have a snagging problem with *my* cat--I > wouldn't survive the trimming! :-) > I've been surprised how well my cat takes it--I use baby-sized nail nippers. > It isn't her favorite thing, but she does tolerate it. Ehe... mine would bite your arm off if you even looked like you were thinking of just *touching* one of his paws... We never clipped his nails; he'd do most of the job outside, and we'd have the vet clip them when we went... gosh did that poor guy hate that job! Since the cat went outside a lot and came in mostly to eat and sleep, once he'd found a comfortable spot I didn't have too much trouble with him trying to get onto my fabric. And he didn't chew anything besides the boinky door stopper (he'd do it in the morning to get my dad's attention so he could go out). Don't leave a paper or plastic bag lying around, though! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 8 16:35:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i98KZAPA005986 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 16:35:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98KYF3x002746 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Oct 2004 14:34:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98KYCDx064692; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 14:34:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav7.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.111]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98KY9Dx064614 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 14:34:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 13:34:04 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by bay9-dav7.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 08 Oct 2004 20:33:49 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hennin Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 16:34:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Oct 2004 20:34:04.0266 (UTC) FILETIME=[26D81CA0:01C4AD76] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Princess pointy-hats are called hennins, yes? (Hats not my area.) Is there > any other historically accurate name for them? The little princess in > question doesn't like that word. Something French instead, maybe? French is "hennin" too! Sorry that doesn't help :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 8 16:43:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i98Kh0hf006049 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 16:43:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98Kcw3x002957 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Oct 2004 14:38:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98KbeDx066042; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 14:37:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web50408.mail.yahoo.com (web50408.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.73]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i98KbbDx066004 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 14:37:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dragonwolfcat@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20041008203732.62681.qmail@web50408.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [146.82.36.102] by web50408.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 08 Oct 2004 13:37:32 PDT Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 13:37:32 -0700 (PDT) From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume cats & hoop skirts To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <003901c4ad65$bd05e9c0$cb6afea9@sherry> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My house overrunneth with costume pets. I have red-gold longhaired dogs, who will lie on top of anything, and don't know not to walk on fabric, so they aren't allowed in when I'm cutting. We now have 3 cats: Lord Voll, polydactyl, black and white somewhat longhaired, Vaya, black shorthaired, paper-eater and incurable furniture walker, and Goblin, the 7 month old black kitten. Voll is very good about not being on fabric I'm working on, but anything else is fair game-and if he's mad at me, it becomes wet. Vaya and Goblin haven't quite caught on that walking on, pouncing on and other activities are not allowed on Mommy's fabric. Goblin also thinks that the outfits on forms and mannequins are either for climbing up to pounce on Vaya, or to curl up in and snooze. But hair gets everywhere. Angharad / wolfcat _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 8 16:51:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i98Kp25m006129 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 16:51:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98KoQ3x004150 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Oct 2004 14:50:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98KoEDx075260; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 14:50:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav28.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i98Ko7Dx075079 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 14:50:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 13:50:01 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by bay9-dav28.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 08 Oct 2004 20:49:59 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3B75@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT, for those with costume cats... Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 16:45:10 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Oct 2004 20:50:01.0588 (UTC) FILETIME=[6173DB40:01C4AD78] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > What amazes me is all you people who allow your cats on the table. > We've never allowed our cats to jump up on the tables. > Yes, being a cat, she still tries it occasionally (and she *knows* it's > wrong, judgign by the guilty look and scramble to get off the table when > we walk in) but 90% of the time she doesn't even try jumpoing up Yes, we had trouble with ours too. He'd go sleep on the bed... on my DAD's side (he didn't like the cat very much ;-) and never on my mom's side. He had such a cute guilty look when I came home in the afternoons ! He'd jump on tables when we weren't there - never when we were around. And then when he got older he got an infection from a scratch mark on one thigh and the vet had to operate. The pain was enough for him to fall down a couple of times when he tried to jump, and eventually he entirely stopped jumping. He'd look up intensely until we got the message and picked him up (he was allowed to climb on the kitchen stools). We never ever found a warm spot after that, not on the couch, not on the bed. He'd stay on the carpet. And he got very cuddly when he got older. He'd want to be where people were, always. He'd ask to climb on anyone who sat down (except my dad), or he'd lie down somewhere close so he could keep an eye on us. So he was a good working buddy (I didn't sew back then, but I did all kinds of other things). I miss him. I'm allergic, so I won't be able to get another one. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 8 23:03:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9933QwH011400 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 23:03:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9931P3x006568 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Oct 2004 21:01:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9930fDx088920; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 21:00:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-02-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (ms-smtp-02-smtplb.ohiordc.rr.com [65.24.5.136]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9930cDx088849 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 21:00:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ailith@neo.rr.com) Received: from duncan (dhcp024-209-056-164.neo.rr.com [24.209.56.164]) by ms-smtp-02-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id i9930VJm022135 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 23:00:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <008c01c4adac$23b3c2a0$1902a8c0@duncan> From: "ailith" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20041008192535.90631.qmail@web52706.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT Costumes and Cats ... Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 22:59:57 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lil Sorepaws" To: Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 3:25 PM Subject: [h-cost] OT Costumes and Cats ... *snip* > Anyone else have cats who like to CHEW on plastic, patterns, or beaded > trim?!? Oh, goodness, yes! My Shadow loves plastic bags--ziplock bags, grocery bags, any kind of plastic. I caught him the other day with about 3" of a plastic sleeve from a roll of wrapping paper down his throat! My little girl, Moria, has a very bad habit of chewing on cords--extension cords, lamp cords, computer cords, and the like. She also likes the plastic ends on the side pieces of eye glasses. Pixel just sheds on everything... :-) kate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 9 02:33:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i996XhCq016602 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 02:33:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i996X93x017670 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Oct 2004 00:33:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i996WtDx086138; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 00:32:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i996WjDx085948 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 00:32:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.145.137]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i996WWJH013104 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 16:32:32 +1000 Message-ID: <003b01c4adc9$a362a800$8991d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4166EC65.3060103@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] cotehardies and gothic dress yardages Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 16:31:35 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 5:37 AM Subject: [h-cost] cotehardies and gothic dress yardages > Can anyone tell me how much yardage I should buy for a man's and a > woman's costume? I've never made one before, and I am having an awful > time finding a web source that gives an estimated yardage for 14th > century clothing. I'm anticipating needing material for the > undershirt/tunic/dress and the outer garment plus lining. I need to > purchase the fabric before I draft the patterns, unfortunately. Help is > appreciated. >Dawn > I aim for about 5 m of outer fabric then 1m for lining the bodice, 1m for lining the sleeves and 3m for lining the skirt (Though I often don't line the skirt) This is for an early 16th century long sleeved kirtle so it has a waist seam and a gored skirt but it shouldn't be much different for a 14th/15th century GFD Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole in OR in Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra, Australia ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 9 10:15:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i99EFXGc017732 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 10:15:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99EEc3x021488 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Oct 2004 08:14:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99EEQDx082989; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 08:14:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99EENDx082894 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 08:14:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-8.13) id A23689600C0; Sat, 09 Oct 2004 10:14:14 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.105 ([209.131.81.105] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 9 Oct 04 14:14:10 -0000 Message-ID: <00e601c4ae0b$426e1380$695183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <02e101c4abd1$46a5c4c0$0400a8c0@compaqub><41648E96.2020403@earthlink.net> <200410070041.54767.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT, for those with costume cats... Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 09:59:58 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And how about a cat that nested on the ironing board! Mine got her tail nearly singed more than once.!! Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine Olanich Raymond" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 12:41 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT, for those with costume cats... > On Wednesday 06 October 2004 8:32 pm, Karolee Smiley wrote: > > E House wrote: > > >Since so many of us seem to have the obligatory cat help with our > > > sewing... > > I cannot recall hearing of a costumer with pets that *didn't* have at least > one cat, but that may just be selective memory kicking in. :-) > > > > > > >If yer cat has a nasty habit of snagging your nice fabric with its claws, > > >those little plastic nail caps solve the problem wonderfully! There's > > >probably more than one company that makes them, but this is the only one I > > >know of: > > >http://www.softpaws.com > > >Not affiliated, yada. I believe PetSmart resells these, btw, but I just > > >order em. They can also be used for dogs, ferrets, etc. > > If Sugar (my cat) posed a real problem in this regard, I'd try it, since she > sure won't let me *trim* her claws (I make the vet do it when she gets her > checkup, because it takes a minimum of two people; one to hold the cat fully > extended by all four paws and one to do the actual trimming.) > > > > > >I've been using them for about 3 months, and since I started Judgement has > > >shed white hair all over everything, and once chewed up a few inches of > > >china silk, but she hasn't managed to snag a single thing, even with > > >tempting drapey gowns hung all over the living room waiting to be > > >photographed! =) > > Sugar likes to nibble paper (she once did quite a bit of nibbling on a pattern > I had spread on the floor) but does not damage cloth, even by accident. She > just likes to walk around on it, and then lie down. > > > -- > Cathy Raymond > > "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue > that counts."--Winston Churchill > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 9 10:16:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i99EGMf9017745 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 10:16:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99EFc3x021527 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Oct 2004 08:15:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99EFbDx083484; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 08:15:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99EFBDx083284 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 08:15:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-8.13) id A268194E0060; Sat, 09 Oct 2004 10:15:04 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.105 ([209.131.81.105] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 9 Oct 04 14:15:03 -0000 Message-ID: <00e701c4ae0b$620e63c0$695183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20041008192535.90631.qmail@web52706.mail.yahoo.com> <008c01c4adac$23b3c2a0$1902a8c0@duncan> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT Costumes and Cats ... Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 10:22:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And don't forget the styrofoam! One of mine was addicted to the stuff in any of its forms...wig heads, appliance packing, balls, cones and such. At one time I was using packing as props for cardboard boxes in the basement and it was all reduced to confetti, Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "ailith" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 10:59 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT Costumes and Cats ... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lil Sorepaws" > To: > Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 3:25 PM > Subject: [h-cost] OT Costumes and Cats ... > > > *snip* > > Anyone else have cats who like to CHEW on plastic, patterns, or > beaded > > trim?!? > > Oh, goodness, yes! My Shadow loves plastic bags--ziplock bags, grocery > bags, any kind of plastic. I caught him the other day with about 3" of > a plastic sleeve from a roll of wrapping paper down his throat! > > My little girl, Moria, has a very bad habit of chewing on > cords--extension cords, lamp cords, computer cords, and the like. She > also likes the plastic ends on the side pieces of eye glasses. > > Pixel just sheds on everything... :-) > > kate > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 9 12:26:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i99GQ7kt020130 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 12:26:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99GPK3x029581 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Oct 2004 10:25:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99GPFDx044855; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 10:25:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.mdx.safepages.com (mail1.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99GPEDx044817 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 10:25:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail1.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 1CF2813D6DE; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 16:25:11 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust41.tnt1.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.148.41]) by mail1.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 5D91813D74A for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 16:24:57 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <047301c4ae1c$91d74ca0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 11:24:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Rit dye IS good for something! (dyeing fur) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My gorgeous, gorgeous fur is not quite the right color (too much burgundy, not enough brown) so I decided that rather than waiting several months for my supplier to get the correct color in stock, I'd try dyeing it. Since the skin is washable, I wasn't too worried about the effects of dyeing; I was just uncertain as to which dye I should use. Web research suggested 3 alternatives: any 'good' protein dye, or a leather dye, or Rit. Well, I tried a good protein dye. Yeeech. First of all, it absolutely would not stick; I tried everything from soaking the fur in almost pure dye to leaving the sample in a dye bath for several hours, and not one scrap of color was transfered to the fur. Second, the leather backing soaked up all the dye, and though the dye didn't actually do much to change the color of the leather, it did NOT want to come out of the leather. It would not exhaust; I rinsed and rinsed and rinsed and rinsed. It would get to a point where the water ran clear, but then when I pressed the leather against a paper towel to dry it, the paper towel immediately turned black (the color of the dye I tested). Third and creepiest, the leather backing almost immediately took on a terribly unpleasant slimy feel, as though it were dissolving. Now, this might have simply been the feel of all that dye refusing to leave the leather, but it really worried me. I'd looked into leather dye a bit, and the price and chemicals involved made me shy away from that option. So, since I had a few bits of Rit dye left over, I tried that. It worked perfectly! I mixed up a pretty dilute dye bath, with hot tap water, and just dunked it, then pulled it out and rinsed it off a few minutes later. It rinsed clean almost immediately, and the fur's color had changed dramatically (and almost accidentally) into pretty much the exact color I wanted. (I overdyed burgundy with dark green, which yielded a nice dark brown. I might want to add something with a strong hint of yellow to the dye to get a slightly more chocolatey color, but other than that it was surprisingly perfect for having just used whatever I had laying around!) The leather didn't have any creepy slimy feel to it, and when I pressed it against a paper towel, there wasn't the slightest sign of green left on the paper towel. There was some burgundy, as there had been when I simply dunked a sample then dried it without any dyeing. Apparently the original dye was actually inferior to Rit! (Never thought I'd say that.) I've since read a good bit more about dyeing fur with Rit, from mailing lists that deal with making your own fishing flies. The rit-dyed furs survive constant and repeated immersion in fresh and salt water without any noticeable fading, and the leather is not altered (except in color, to some degree) or hardened, as long as you don't use water that's too hot. (Hottest tap water is about right.) From all I can gather, including my own test runs, it's just plain the perfect dye. For fur. Not cloth. -E _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 9 12:47:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i99GlwBp020331 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 12:47:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99GlC3x000916 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Oct 2004 10:47:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99Gl9Dx056018; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 10:47:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99Gl5Dx055975 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 10:47:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20477 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 11:55:42 -0500 Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 11:55:40 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] cotehardies and gothic dress yardages In-Reply-To: <4166EC65.3060103@reddawn.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 8 Oct 2004, Dawn wrote: > Can anyone tell me how much yardage I should buy for a man's and a > woman's costume? I've never made one before, and I am having an awful > time finding a web source that gives an estimated yardage for 14th > century clothing. I'm anticipating needing material for the > undershirt/tunic/dress and the outer garment plus lining. I need to > purchase the fabric before I draft the patterns, unfortunately. Help > is appreciated. I can't help you on men's cotes -- that would depend a lot of length (which can vary greatly) and the man's own width, and the width of the cloth, which would determine how many widths of garment pieces you can get out of the fabric width. For a woman's fitted underdress (the basic layer that goes over the chemise), I usually tell people at least 6 yards of the main fabric, with the same amount for lining if you're lining the full dress (which I recommend). You'll probably want some extra lining material (or something of similar weight and flexibility, preferably linen) for a torso mockup, to make all your mistakes on, before cutting the full lining with skirt. Remember that the dress pieces are all cut as one from top to bottom, so you have to think in body lengths and widths. You'll probably end up getting two body widths out of one cloth width; turn the pieces head-to-toe so you can get some skirt flare in, then add gores to achieve the desired skirt width. So, that means you need two body lengths of fabric (to allow for four full-length panels, two per width) = about 3.5 yards, a little less if you're short and don't want any hem-puddling. Plus a yard or so for sleeves, and a little over a yard for a single set of gores. That gets you to about six yards total, five-and-a-half if you know what you're doing and are of average size. However: You will need more if the fabric is narrow and you are wide (which may necessitate a second set of gores) or if, like me, you tend to screw up a sleeve here and there and want to allow extra. Overdresses vary greatly depending on sleeve style. Wide sleeves can double the sleeve requirement, or worse. Short sleeves (usually to be trimmed with tippets) can sometimes be cut from the cabbage of the dress, if you're *really* good and don't make mistakes. (Some of you have seen me in my red-and-blue diamond-pattern wool cotehardie with tippets: I managed it out of four yards, because that's all I had, but I had absolutely nothing left in the length, and only a handful of scraps off the sides after piecing short sleeves out of the cabbage.) Also, the exact period of your style makes a difference -- women's cotehardies of 1350-80 were significantly narrower than those of 1400 or so. You'll also need an equivalent amount for overdress lining. You might line the sleeves in something more exotic than the body, if the sleeve lining is showing. Chemise/shirt is another matter entirely. I cut my women's chemises on a rectalinear pattern, from 45-inch-wide linen divided down the middle to make a more period width of 22.5 inches or so. It's easy to cut this out without measurments if you can do it in one long stretch (body front, body back, sleeve, sleeve, gores, with gussets out of the material trimmed off the sleeve or gore angles) but when I'm working in two halves of a divided fabric, I often measure it out beforehand so I can figure out the best way to allot the garment pieces to the two finite lengths. If you can't work that out, or if you're dealing with another width and have to jigsaw-puzzle your layout, you're safe getting two garment lengths (with a length measured as shoulder to mid-calf plus an inch for allowances). That will allow you to cut two body pieces (side-by-side if there's room, or end-to-end if necessary) and use the remainder for sleeves, gores, gussets. Men's shirts are shorter, so figure accordingly. So, for a full outfit (for each person), you need: chemise linen undergown outer fabric undergown lining overgown outer fabric overgown lining If you're making the man's and woman's garments out of the same lengths of fabric, you may have a little more wiggle room because you can nest a bit more. But not much -- so don't count on it. Hope that helps. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 9 13:07:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i99H7Woo020621 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 13:07:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99H6j3x002142 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Oct 2004 11:06:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99H6iDx065916; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 11:06:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99H6gDx065895 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 11:06:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.199] (p39.3c04.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.199]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i99H4sc08528 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 11:04:54 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <047301c4ae1c$91d74ca0$0400a8c0@compaqub> References: <047301c4ae1c$91d74ca0$0400a8c0@compaqub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <33F9A080-1A16-11D9-BA2D-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Rit dye IS good for something! (dyeing fur) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 11:11:04 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What protein dye did you try? On Oct 9, 2004, at 10:24 AM, E House wrote: > My gorgeous, gorgeous fur is not quite the right color (too much > burgundy, > not enough brown) so I decided that rather than waiting several months > for > my supplier to get the correct color in stock, I'd try dyeing it. > Since the > skin is washable, I wasn't too worried about the effects of dyeing; I > was > just uncertain as to which dye I should use. Web research suggested 3 > alternatives: any 'good' protein dye, or a leather dye, or Rit. > > Well, I tried a good protein dye. Yeeech. First of all, it absolutely > would > not stick; I tried everything from soaking the fur in almost pure dye > to > leaving the sample in a dye bath for several hours, and not one scrap > of > color was transfered to the fur. Second, the leather backing soaked up > all > the dye, and though the dye didn't actually do much to change the > color of > the leather, it did NOT want to come out of the leather. It would not > exhaust; I rinsed and rinsed and rinsed and rinsed. It would get to a > point > where the water ran clear, but then when I pressed the leather against > a > paper towel to dry it, the paper towel immediately turned black (the > color > of the dye I tested). Third and creepiest, the leather backing almost > immediately took on a terribly unpleasant slimy feel, as though it were > dissolving. Now, this might have simply been the feel of all that dye > refusing to leave the leather, but it really worried me. > > I'd looked into leather dye a bit, and the price and chemicals > involved made > me shy away from that option. So, since I had a few bits of Rit dye > left > over, I tried that. > > It worked perfectly! I mixed up a pretty dilute dye bath, with hot tap > water, and just dunked it, then pulled it out and rinsed it off a few > minutes later. It rinsed clean almost immediately, and the fur's color > had > changed dramatically (and almost accidentally) into pretty much the > exact > color I wanted. (I overdyed burgundy with dark green, which yielded a > nice > dark brown. I might want to add something with a strong hint of yellow > to > the dye to get a slightly more chocolatey color, but other than that > it was > surprisingly perfect for having just used whatever I had laying > around!) > The leather didn't have any creepy slimy feel to it, and when I > pressed it > against a paper towel, there wasn't the slightest sign of green left > on the > paper towel. There was some burgundy, as there had been when I simply > dunked > a sample then dried it without any dyeing. Apparently the original dye > was > actually inferior to Rit! (Never thought I'd say that.) > > I've since read a good bit more about dyeing fur with Rit, from mailing > lists that deal with making your own fishing flies. The rit-dyed furs > survive constant and repeated immersion in fresh and salt water > without any > noticeable fading, and the leather is not altered (except in color, to > some > degree) or hardened, as long as you don't use water that's too hot. > (Hottest > tap water is about right.) From all I can gather, including my own test > runs, it's just plain the perfect dye. For fur. Not cloth. > > -E > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 9 13:43:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i99HheWj021326 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 13:43:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99Hgh3x004359 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Oct 2004 11:42:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99HgUDx083584; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 11:42:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail11.mdx.safepages.com (mail11.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99HgSDx083563 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 11:42:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id AD959A07BA; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 17:42:31 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust207.tnt2.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.178.207]) by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 1BC4CA06CC for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 17:42:08 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <047b01c4ae27$5ade1d40$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4166EC65.3060103@reddawn.net> <003b01c4adc9$a362a800$8991d6cb@ewalpole> Subject: Re: [h-cost] cotehardies and gothic dress yardages Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 12:42:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO For a floor-length 4 panel dress with 4 godets and long fitted sleeves, I generally get 4 yds 60" wide for the outer fabric and ditto for the lining, and tend to have about 1/2 yard of each left over for emergencies. The amount really depends on how you lay out the pattern, though. If my pattern is such that I can lay out the 2 main panel pattern pieces side by side (with hem of one beside shoulder strap of the other), then my cloth requirements add up like this: shoulder-to-hem measurement + waist-to-hem measurement (for the godets) + length of sleeves + ~6" margin of error. If I can't lay the 2 main panel pieces side by side, then it adds up like this: back shoulder-to-hem measurement + front shoulder-to-hem measurement + sleeve length + margin of error, with the godets being cut out of the large triangular scraps left behind when I cut out the main panels. So by the first method, which I generally use for floor-length or shorter styles, my yardage works out like this: 63" + 45" + 29" + 6" = 143" or just shy of 4 yards. (Yes, I'm tall.) For the longer, trained styles layed out by the 2nd method, a typical yardage might be: 67" + 72" + 29" + 6" = 174" or about 4 7/8 yds. Now, almost always, I find ways within the layout to save fabric, so I generally end up with about half a yard of scrap, but there have been times when I needed every inch! One thing that makes a huge difference is my habit of making each of the main panel pattern pieces have one edge that is more or less straight grain; this makes for much less waste, along with improving the drape of the skirt. So while I buy 4 yds for my standard 4-panel pattern, in practice I consider 3.5 yds my standard requirement. -E _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 9 13:53:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i99HrIG2021472 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 13:53:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99Hq23x004790 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Oct 2004 11:52:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99Hq1Dx088002; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 11:52:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.mdx.safepages.com (mail1.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99HpxDx087985 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 11:51:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail1.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id F353C13D775; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 17:51:58 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust207.tnt2.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.178.207]) by mail1.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 7C8A813D786 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 17:51:57 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <048501c4ae28$b2036bb0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <047301c4ae1c$91d74ca0$0400a8c0@compaqub> <33F9A080-1A16-11D9-BA2D-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Rit dye IS good for something! (dyeing fur) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 12:52:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sylvia Rognstad" > What protein dye did you try? I tried the fiber reactive dye sold by Dharma Trading, both with and without the soda ash fixer. On wool, the fiber reactive dye colors without the soda ash fixer, but not on the sheepskin. I would have tried their acid dye as well (and my reading since those tests indicated that acid dye or a method that uses urea as a mordant might work better) but the only colors of acid dye I have on hand are salmon and burgundy, neither of which would have shown up! -E _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 9 14:21:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i99ILlRQ021936 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 14:21:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99IJt3x006845 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Oct 2004 12:19:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99IJsDx001702; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 12:19:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99IJrDx001669 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 12:19:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21096 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 13:28:32 -0500 Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 13:28:31 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] cotehardies and gothic dress yardages In-Reply-To: <047b01c4ae27$5ade1d40$0400a8c0@compaqub> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sat, 9 Oct 2004, E House wrote: > The amount really depends on how you lay out the pattern, though. If > my pattern is such that I can lay out the 2 main panel pattern pieces > side by side (with hem of one beside shoulder strap of the other), > then my cloth requirements add up like this: shoulder-to-hem > measurement + waist-to-hem measurement (for the godets) + length of > sleeves + ~6" margin of error. ... > So by the first method, which I generally use for floor-length or > shorter styles, my yardage works out like this: 63" + 45" + 29" + 6" = > 143" or just shy of 4 yards. That allows one body length for the body panels. Are you getting four body panels side by side, then? (You say two above, but I think you mean four, nested in pairs.) I've done that on a 60-inch wide fabric before, but I wouldn't advise that for someone who isn't either skinny or experienced or both. ;-) The six yards I mentioned earlier was assuming 45" or 54" fabric. If you already have a good mockup or existing dress to go by, it makes planning much easier, because you know exactly how much to allow for the body widths and can dovetail the pieces without leaving much wiggle room. Something I forgot to mention earlier: I do all my fitting on the lining, and then take that apart and use it as a "pattern" for the main fabric. This allows me to know exactly where my cuts will be, and I can often arrange the pieces very closely on the main fabric and make use of every inch. But it's hard to predict, as so much depends on the exact width of the pieces, and the width of the fabrics. Worth noting: You don't have to have the same number and size of gores on the lining as you do on the outer fabric, as long as they come out to the same size when you put them all together. Sometimes I'll have quite a few gores on the inside, but manage to cut several pieces as one on the outside. I don't think this would have been unprecedented in period, as good (imported) wools were often quite a bit wider (e.g. 36" for broadcloth) as linens (often around 22") -- so the outer wool could incorporate more flare, and thus need fewer gores, in a single piece compared to the inner linen. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 9 14:25:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i99IP2dE022000 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 14:25:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99INo3x007091 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Oct 2004 12:23:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99INoDx003511; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 12:23:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com ([199.170.202.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99INmDx003468 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 12:23:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i99IlhTP053425 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 14:47:43 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: (from sfarmer@localhost) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3/Submit) id i99IlgUD053424 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 14:47:42 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 14:47:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Farmer Message-Id: <200410091847.i99IlgUD053424@sabre.goldsword.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Rit dye IS good for something! (dyeing fur) In-Reply-To: <047301c4ae1c$91d74ca0$0400a8c0@compaqub> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > My gorgeous, gorgeous fur is not quite the right color (too much burgundy, > not enough brown) so I decided that rather than waiting several months for > my supplier to get the correct color in stock, I'd try dyeing it. Since the > skin is washable, I wasn't too worried about the effects of dyeing; I was > just uncertain as to which dye I should use. Web research suggested 3 > alternatives: any 'good' protein dye, or a leather dye, or Rit. Um, wouldn't "Lady Clairol" (tm) work as well? Hair is hair after all. Jerusha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 9 14:34:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i99IYPCB022159 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 14:34:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99IRc3x007315 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Oct 2004 12:27:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99IRbDx005135; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 12:27:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99IRYDx005110 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 12:27:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.199] (p39.3c04.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.199]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i99IPmc13273 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 12:25:48 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <048501c4ae28$b2036bb0$0400a8c0@compaqub> References: <047301c4ae1c$91d74ca0$0400a8c0@compaqub> <33F9A080-1A16-11D9-BA2D-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> <048501c4ae28$b2036bb0$0400a8c0@compaqub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <821A1387-1A21-11D9-BA2D-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Rit dye IS good for something! (dyeing fur) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 12:32:00 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO No wonder it didnt work! Fiber reactive dyes are for cellulosic fibers, not protein! I.e., cotton, linen and rayon. You needed to use acid dyes for fur, which is partly what is in Rit. They only require vinegar, not urea. On Oct 9, 2004, at 11:52 AM, E House wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sylvia Rognstad" >> What protein dye did you try? > > I tried the fiber reactive dye sold by Dharma Trading, both with and > without > the soda ash fixer. On wool, the fiber reactive dye colors without the > soda > ash fixer, but not on the sheepskin. > > I would have tried their acid dye as well (and my reading since those > tests > indicated that acid dye or a method that uses urea as a mordant might > work > better) but the only colors of acid dye I have on hand are salmon and > burgundy, neither of which would have shown up! > > -E > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 9 15:03:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i99J3tqR022664 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 15:03:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99J2L3x009423 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Oct 2004 13:02:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99J2GDx021709; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 13:02:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail11.mdx.safepages.com (mail11.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99J2DDx021671 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 13:02:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 7CF4BA07B8; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 19:02:17 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust207.tnt2.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.178.207]) by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 600E5A0789 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 19:02:12 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <04b401c4ae32$80947fb0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] cotehardies and gothic dress yardages Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 14:02:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" > That allows one body length for the body panels. Are you getting four body > panels side by side, then? (You say two above, but I think you mean > four, nested in pairs.) Correct: 2 pattern pieces on doubled 60" fabric, for a symmetrical cutting of 4 pieces of fabric, within one body length. I get most of the hem width out of godets; if I were to use the entire 60" width for the godets, it would work out to about 80" hem for the main panels, and 120" of hem in the godets (about 5 1/2 yds total hem). Generally, though, I prefer to make the godet hem widths match those of the main panels; it just looks better to my eye. It hurts me deeply to leave that ~10" x 45" scrap there, though! > I've done that on a 60-inch wide fabric before, but I wouldn't advise that > for someone who isn't either skinny or experienced or both. ;-) The six > yards I mentioned earlier was assuming 45" or 54" fabric. For narrower fabric widths, I use the second method. (On both, the cut pieces can easily be adjusted to fit a specific period cloth width, even if the layout isn't period.) The second method also allows for much less skinnyness--I've used the first method for up to size 16, but probably wouldn't try it much beyond that. I keep the pattern I made during my fitting for later use rather than making them into the lining; since I tend to use the same sorts of materials (like say, 5.3 oz linen) over and over the fitting remains useful to me, even though I generally have to baste-and-tweak the next gown before I sew it all together. Since I generally make my pattern only hip or thigh length (lower cost, easier to store, and all I have to do is draw a couple of straight lines when I use it for layout) I tend to try out my layouts on graph paper rather than on the living room floor. For me, it works just as well, but I'm the sort who uses pen and paper to plan out pretty much everything! =} In case you were wondering, yes, I am obsessed with efficient cutting layouts. -E, off to get more Rit rather than catching up with correspondence. Bad E! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 9 15:07:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i99J76xQ022728 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 15:07:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99J443x009533 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Oct 2004 13:04:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99J41Dx022650; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 13:04:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail10.mdx.safepages.com (mail10.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.33]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99J40Dx022626 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 13:04:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail10.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 7DB9A203A4; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 19:04:05 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust207.tnt2.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.178.207]) by mail10.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id A3AC620312 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 19:03:58 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <04bd01c4ae32$c14e79c0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <047301c4ae1c$91d74ca0$0400a8c0@compaqub><33F9A080-1A16-11D9-BA2D-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net><048501c4ae28$b2036bb0$0400a8c0@compaqub> <821A1387-1A21-11D9-BA2D-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Rit dye IS good for something! (dyeing fur) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 14:03:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The one I used I've used with great success on wool and silk, though--let me go back and look at the bottle; I might be remembering the wrong type. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sylvia Rognstad" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 1:32 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Rit dye IS good for something! (dyeing fur) > No wonder it didnt work! Fiber reactive dyes are for cellulosic > fibers, not protein! I.e., cotton, linen and rayon. You needed to use > acid dyes for fur, which is partly what is in Rit. They only require > vinegar, not urea. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 9 15:07:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i99J7OQw022733 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 15:07:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99J533x009611 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Oct 2004 13:05:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99J53Dx023143; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 13:05:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (e-smtp.socket.net [216.106.88.132]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99J4GDx022761 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 13:04:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DA342C004 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 14:04:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p408.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.154]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id A79C1C481 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 14:04:13 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] OT Costumes and Cats ... Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 14:04:30 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20041008192535.90631.qmail@web52706.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Do you not know that cats have a natural instinct for feng shui? The clawing on the fabric is letting you know that the fabric isn't feng shui. a solid piece of paper on an ironing board is not feng shui but many pieces all around restores the balance and flow. :) De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 9 15:07:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i99J7Qej022736 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 15:07:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99J5C3x009625 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Oct 2004 13:05:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99J5BDx023233; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 13:05:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail12.mdx.safepages.com (mail12.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.154.242]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99J4oDx023015 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 13:04:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail12.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id CA132B606; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 19:04:55 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust207.tnt2.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.178.207]) by mail12.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E11C4B5D9 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 19:04:46 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <04c001c4ae32$dd94f0a0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200410091847.i99IlgUD053424@sabre.goldsword.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Rit dye IS good for something! (dyeing fur) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 14:04:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Not for 80 sq ft of it, though--the dye would wind up costing waaaay too much! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Farmer" > Um, wouldn't "Lady Clairol" (tm) work as well? Hair is hair after all. > Jerusha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 9 15:14:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i99JEi3e022838 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 15:14:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99JBB3x009976 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Oct 2004 13:11:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99JBBDx026025; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 13:11:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99JB9Dx026011 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 13:11:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.38] (p22.3c01.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.38]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i99J9Mc16021 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 13:09:23 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <04bd01c4ae32$c14e79c0$0400a8c0@compaqub> References: <047301c4ae1c$91d74ca0$0400a8c0@compaqub><33F9A080-1A16-11D9-BA2D-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net><048501c4ae28$b2036bb0$0400a8c0@compaqub> <821A1387-1A21-11D9-BA2D-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> <04bd01c4ae32$c14e79c0$0400a8c0@compaqub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <985B86A4-1A27-11D9-BA2D-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Rit dye IS good for something! (dyeing fur) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 13:15:34 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I take what I said back. I have used Procion Mx on silk and it works ok, although I like acid dyes better. So it may have been the kind of reactive dye you used. Was it procion MX or procion H? And I think that using soda ash on protein is not a very good idea. You can use vinegar with reactive dyes on protein fibers. I think the soda ash is too caustic. On Oct 9, 2004, at 1:03 PM, E House wrote: > The one I used I've used with great success on wool and silk, > though--let me > go back and look at the bottle; I might be remembering the wrong type. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sylvia Rognstad" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 1:32 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Rit dye IS good for something! (dyeing fur) > > >> No wonder it didnt work! Fiber reactive dyes are for cellulosic >> fibers, not protein! I.e., cotton, linen and rayon. You needed to >> use >> acid dyes for fur, which is partly what is in Rit. They only require >> vinegar, not urea. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 9 15:18:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i99JI8Os022912 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 15:18:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99JGS3x010365 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Oct 2004 13:16:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99JGRDx028489; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 13:16:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail10.mdx.safepages.com (mail10.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.33]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99JGQDx028484 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 13:16:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail10.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 42B892022D; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 19:16:32 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust207.tnt2.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.178.207]) by mail10.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 52C242049F for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 19:16:29 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <04c501c4ae34$7e3f0c10$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200410091847.i99IlgUD053424@sabre.goldsword.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Rit dye IS good for something! (dyeing fur) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 14:16:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It was Fiber Reactive dye; however, that dye IS for both cellulose and protein fiber. You just use different methods, with soda ash for cellulose (tried out of desperation) and vinegar/salt for protein. I've used the same dye for dyeing matched linen and silk or wool, with perfectly matched color results (excepting black, which yields purple on silk) --except that the silk and wool generally turn out a more vibrant color. So while it's not the ideal dye to try, it should have had some effect--it had absolutely none, except on the blotting towel! -E _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 9 15:25:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i99JPdFu023017 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 15:25:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99JOW3x010785 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Oct 2004 13:24:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99JOVDx032350; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 13:24:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99JOTDx032338 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 13:24:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.55] (p39.3c01.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.55]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i99JMhc16753 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 13:22:43 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <04c501c4ae34$7e3f0c10$0400a8c0@compaqub> References: <200410091847.i99IlgUD053424@sabre.goldsword.com> <04c501c4ae34$7e3f0c10$0400a8c0@compaqub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <75CD6632-1A29-11D9-BA2D-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Rit dye IS good for something! (dyeing fur) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 13:28:55 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thats why I asked if it was MX or H. H requires heat setting, MX does not. On Oct 9, 2004, at 1:16 PM, E House wrote: > It was Fiber Reactive dye; however, that dye IS for both cellulose and > protein fiber. You just use different methods, with soda ash for > cellulose > (tried out of desperation) and vinegar/salt for protein. I've used the > same > dye for dyeing matched linen and silk or wool, with perfectly matched > color > results (excepting black, which yields purple on silk) --except that > the > silk and wool generally turn out a more vibrant color. So while it's > not the > ideal dye to try, it should have had some effect--it had absolutely > none, > except on the blotting towel! > > -E > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 9 15:43:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i99JhJNg023359 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 15:43:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99JfU3x011879 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Oct 2004 13:41:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99JfTDx041173; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 13:41:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail10.mdx.safepages.com (mail10.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.33]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99JfNDx041111 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 13:41:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail10.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id CD535204C5; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 19:41:28 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust207.tnt2.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.178.207]) by mail10.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 114A02045D for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 19:41:26 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <04de01c4ae37$fa4de620$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200410091847.i99IlgUD053424@sabre.goldsword.com><04c501c4ae34$7e3f0c10$0400a8c0@compaqub> <75CD6632-1A29-11D9-BA2D-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Rit dye IS good for something! (dyeing fur) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 14:41:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sylvia Rognstad" > Thats why I asked if it was MX or H. H requires heat setting, MX does > not. It does require heat--but the test swatch was done at high temperatures. I'm not ruling out acid dye, here--but as I see it, these are my choices: a dye that I know works perfectly, for which I have many testimonials by people doing the exact same thing, which requires very little fuss to use, and which is available at a store 2 miles away, OR a dye which I have no guarantee will work, for which I have found no specific mention from anyone who's actually tried it on fur, which requires more effort and supplies to use, and which I'd have to mail order. What would you choose? =} -E _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 9 15:43:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i99JhniI023372 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 15:43:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99JgL3x011938 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Oct 2004 13:42:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99JgLDx041645; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 13:42:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com ([199.170.202.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99JfaDx041227 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 13:41:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i99K5XTP053890 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 16:05:33 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: (from sfarmer@localhost) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3/Submit) id i99K5XlL053889 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 16:05:33 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 16:05:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Farmer Message-Id: <200410092005.i99K5XlL053889@sabre.goldsword.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Rit dye IS good for something! (dyeing fur) In-Reply-To: <04c001c4ae32$dd94f0a0$0400a8c0@compaqub> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Not for 80 sq ft of it, though--the dye would wind up costing waaaay too > much! *giggle* you probably have an *excellent* point there! Jerusha > From: "Susan Farmer" > > Um, wouldn't "Lady Clairol" (tm) work as well? Hair is hair after all. > > Jerusha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 9 16:18:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i99KItbW024011 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 16:18:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99KHj3x014199 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Oct 2004 14:17:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99KHiDx060180; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 14:17:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99KHhDx060167 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 14:17:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Scourney@nwlink.com) Received: from sc (ip157.usw235.dsl-acs2.sea.iinet.com [207.202.235.157]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B2DF9706A4 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 13:17:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <008d01c4ae3d$85be0f00$0200a8c0@sc> From: "Susan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <047301c4ae1c$91d74ca0$0400a8c0@compaqub> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Rit dye IS good for something! (dyeing fur) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 13:21:12 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Back a number of years ago when I took a dyeing class at UW the teacher said that Rit was a mixture of all dyes - with the idea that it works on everything. The problem is that as it is a mixture, so you can not always be sure of the results. When I know my fabric is natural fiber (or rayon), I can pick my dye accordingly and when I'm not sure, or it is a fiber that might take a special dye, I test with Rit and see what I get. Often it works. But you do have to run tests to make sure you are getting the result you want. So it is likely it worked because Rit includes some of the dye used to dye fur. Susan in Seattle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 9 16:22:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i99KMOET024078 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 16:22:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99KLF3x014365 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Oct 2004 14:21:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99KLFDx061935; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 14:21:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99KLDDx061912 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 14:21:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.55] (p39.3c01.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.55]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i99KJPc19854 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 14:19:26 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <008d01c4ae3d$85be0f00$0200a8c0@sc> References: <047301c4ae1c$91d74ca0$0400a8c0@compaqub> <008d01c4ae3d$85be0f00$0200a8c0@sc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <60034C32-1A31-11D9-BA2D-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Rit dye IS good for something! (dyeing fur) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 14:25:35 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Exactly. Rit contains acid dyes and, I was told recently, direct dyes. On Oct 9, 2004, at 2:21 PM, Susan wrote: > Back a number of years ago when I took a dyeing class at UW the > teacher said > that Rit was a mixture of all dyes - with the idea that it works on > everything. The problem is that as it is a mixture, so you can not > always > be sure of the results. When I know my fabric is natural fiber (or > rayon), > I can pick my dye accordingly and when I'm not sure, or it is a fiber > that > might take a special dye, I test with Rit and see what I get. Often it > works. But you do have to run tests to make sure you are getting the > result > you want. > > So it is likely it worked because Rit includes some of the dye used to > dye > fur. > > Susan in Seattle > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 9 16:44:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i99Ki9hw024448 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 16:44:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99Kd65N015400 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Oct 2004 14:43:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99K9KDx055846; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 14:09:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99K9IDx055826 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 14:09:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.55] (p39.3c01.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.55]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i99K7Vc19258 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 14:07:31 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <04de01c4ae37$fa4de620$0400a8c0@compaqub> References: <200410091847.i99IlgUD053424@sabre.goldsword.com><04c501c4ae34$7e3f0c10$0400a8c0@compaqub> <75CD6632-1A29-11D9-BA2D-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> <04de01c4ae37$fa4de620$0400a8c0@compaqub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Rit dye IS good for something! (dyeing fur) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 14:13:42 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In that case, Rit. If you don't do a lot of dyeing, there is no point in ordering dye and having to wait to get it. It's just that procion H should have worked. My initial comment was based on my at the moment backward thinking. Reactive dyes will work on both cellulose and protein but acid dyes will only work on protein. For some reason, I was thinking wrong at the time. Did you immerse the fur in hot water or steam it afterward? Although I'm not sure the heat is good for the skin. I've only used MX, not H, but I do know that H requires steam to set the dye. On Oct 9, 2004, at 1:41 PM, E House wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sylvia Rognstad" >> Thats why I asked if it was MX or H. H requires heat setting, MX does >> not. > > It does require heat--but the test swatch was done at high > temperatures. > > I'm not ruling out acid dye, here--but as I see it, these are my > choices: a > dye that I know works perfectly, for which I have many testimonials by > people doing the exact same thing, which requires very little fuss to > use, > and which is available at a store 2 miles away, OR a dye which I have > no > guarantee will work, for which I have found no specific mention from > anyone > who's actually tried it on fur, which requires more effort and > supplies to > use, and which I'd have to mail order. What would you choose? =} > > -E > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 9 17:02:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i99L2pRS024833 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 17:02:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99L1u3x016810 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Oct 2004 15:01:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99L1qDx083336; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 15:01:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail3.mdx.safepages.com (mail3.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99L1oDx083297 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 15:01:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail3.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id BEB5688FCA; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 21:01:48 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust207.tnt2.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.178.207]) by mail3.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 14B6F88F47 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 21:01:46 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <04ef01c4ae43$363cc290$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <047301c4ae1c$91d74ca0$0400a8c0@compaqub><008d01c4ae3d$85be0f00$0200a8c0@sc> <60034C32-1A31-11D9-BA2D-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Rit dye IS good for something! (dyeing fur) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 16:01:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am familiar with how Rit works... judging by the way it rinsed out of the fur, I think the reason my results were so great is that several of the sorts of dyes in it grab hold of the fur, rather than simply one or two. The dye bath lightened perceptibly, and the rinse water was clear almost immediately! Even acid dye on normal protein fabric does not grab hold as well. I just tried one of my acid dyes on a sample, with mixed results. The dye in question was salmon colored (despite the name, it yields a warm vivid orangey red) and while the dye color was still too close to the fur's original burgundy to detect any color change (I might have seen a hint, but I just can't see enough to be sure), at least I didn't get the same creepy interaction with the leather. I was able to rinse it off, though not quite as easily as the Rit. I also put that and a Rit-dyed sample in a stronger vinegar bath, and on each there was no color on the blotting paper towel, which means that the original dye was such that it could be fixed with vinegar. After rinsing, I vigorously rubbed the wet fur side of each of those samples against the paper towel with absolutely no effect, so neither seems likely to rub off on my undergown during normal wear. So basically, I was able to test whether or not the acid dye would leave the fur and leather in worse condition than they started, and the result was that it would not. The question of color is still up in the air. I am not a proponent of Rit, except for this--I'm the sort who would actually rather dye her fabric the right color than buy it in the right color, because what if I change my mind? and as such shop at Dharma often. But for this, Rit is effective; at its best and assuming it actually colors, an acid dye is as good, but certainly not better. I may still order an acid dye to dye this fur; it's probably more cost effective, given the amounts I'll need. But my whole point here is that Rit? Very effective dye for fur! -E _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 9 17:17:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i99LHSQ8025163 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 17:17:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99LGZ3x017724 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Oct 2004 15:16:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99LGUDx091734; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 15:16:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail4.mdx.safepages.com (mail4.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.19]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99LGSDx091708 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 15:16:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail4.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 61DE32687C; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 21:16:27 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust91.tnt2.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.178.91]) by mail4.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 399092686F for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 21:16:26 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <04f801c4ae45$424178e0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200410091847.i99IlgUD053424@sabre.goldsword.com><04c501c4ae34$7e3f0c10$0400a8c0@compaqub><75CD6632-1A29-11D9-BA2D-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net><04de01c4ae37$fa4de620$0400a8c0@compaqub> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Rit dye IS good for something! (dyeing fur) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 16:16:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO By the way, I just reread some of this and realized how grumpy I sounded. Didn't mean to! I was posting in the spirit of "Who'da thunk it?", really I was! Sorry. -E _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 9 17:39:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i99Ld5AX025554 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 17:39:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99LcE3x019336 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Oct 2004 15:38:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99LcBDx004528; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 15:38:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i99Lc8Dx004496 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 15:38:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cahuff@mindspring.com) Received: from user-2inikut.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.121.83.221] helo=[10.0.1.2]) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CGOuj-0006f9-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 09 Oct 2004 17:38:06 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200410092022.i99KM2E1062292@net.indra.com> References: <200410092022.i99KM2E1062292@net.indra.com> Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 17:37:57 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: fastusminimus Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 1705 German costume in America? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi My husband has decided he wants to try and portray Ye Olde Family Ancestor...A German who wandered over to America in 1705 in the Upper Chesapeake/PA region (gotta luv the Mormon data base!) Is there an early 1800's elist out there? Other than the 1800 women's list? Is there a huge diff in style of dress between say 1740-50 and 1705?? I have some info on the 1750 stuff... Thanks Carol--luckily he picked up on the pick-a-time hints before I started pants etc...I think looking at the $85 and up shoes had an effect --me I'm looking at bare foot or wearing the socks with clocks only indoors! -- Creative Clutter is Better Than Idle Neatness! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 9 20:49:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9A0n3f9028314 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 20:49:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9A0mQ3x001258 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Oct 2004 18:48:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9A0mDDx009998; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 18:48:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9A0mBDx009922 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 18:48:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from skskaw@comcast.net) Received: from mom1 (c-24-21-122-88.client.comcast.net[24.21.122.88]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2004101000480501100jtsibe>; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 00:48:06 +0000 Message-ID: <006801c4ae62$d5503cd0$6401a8c0@mom1> From: "Sidne Kneeland" To: "Historical Costume" References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3B75@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> <41666E2B.1020400@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT, for those with costume cats... Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 17:48:17 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings, I thought cats and sewing were mandatory necessities. A cat not worth his salt, so to speak, cannot find the middle of the fabric laid on the floor to be cut out. It takes experience. We have four cats. The 3 boys usually concern themselves with EVERYTHING that is going on. Gee, scissors =move= through fabric, fun! Must catch! They so far do not claw, but do try to sit on fabric and grab anything else that moves! Ouch! pins sharp mom! Ooo, sneaky under fabric also fun. Estrelda/Sidne >> We've never allowed our cats to jump up on the tables. > > Me, neither, but often when I cut things out, it's on the floor. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 9 21:04:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9A14ujZ028399 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 21:04:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9A14B3x002211 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Oct 2004 19:04:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9A149Dx018872; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 19:04:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9A147Dx018855 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 19:04:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.167] (p07.3c04.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.167]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i9A12Lc02430 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 19:02:21 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <006801c4ae62$d5503cd0$6401a8c0@mom1> References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3B75@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> <41666E2B.1020400@thibault.org> <006801c4ae62$d5503cd0$6401a8c0@mom1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT, for those with costume cats... Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 19:08:33 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Speaking of cats and related to costuming, Petco is holding a Halloween costume contest for pets. I'd love to make up something for my cats, but I've never had any luck getting them to keep anything on for more than about 10 seconds (I made Xmas hats for them one year). Has anyone else had any luck with their kitties wearing costumes? If so, what did you manage to get on them? Sylrog _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 9 23:17:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9A3HBCX029424 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 23:17:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9A3GP3x009684 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Oct 2004 21:16:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9A3G2Dx090294; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 21:16:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net (blount.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.226]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9A3FwDx090263 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 21:15:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) Received: from 209-165-34-164.jps.net ([209.165.34.164] helo=[209.165.46.251]) by blount.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CGUBg-0000yS-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 09 Oct 2004 23:15:56 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <006801c4ae62$d5503cd0$6401a8c0@mom1> References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3B75@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> <41666E2B.1020400@thibault.org> <006801c4ae62$d5503cd0$6401a8c0@mom1> Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 19:52:25 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: OT, for those with costume cats... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My cats are fabric snobs -- given piles of fabric, they're very selective about which ones they choose to curl up and go to sleep on. Wool, of course, is the prime choice -- and since I have the usual multicolored cats (including one calico who can shed just about any color fur there is) I've learned to hang up wool and not leave it lying around. However, I was surprised to find that my cats go almot as gaga over linen as they do over wool. It seems to be a preferred bed in the absence of wool -- in winter as well as summer. I have no idea why. I don't even give them a _chance_ to curl up on silk. They are especially "helpful" with fabric cutting (as others have noticed) and anything to do with string. My little cat used to sit behind my sewing machine and try to "catch" the moving thread that runs along the top of the machine from the spool to the sewing arm. When she did this with the machine stopped -- as when I got to the end of the seam and cut the thread -- she quite handily un-threaded the needle for me every time she succeeded in grabbing that thread. Gosh, thanks ! A friend of mine has trained her cat that there is "people thread" and "cat thread." If the cat tries to play with the "people thread" she gets a cut length of "cat thread" to play with instead. It seems to work with _her_ cat, but when I've tried it with mine, they get bored with the "cat thread" in about three seconds and go back to trying to bite the "people thread." I've also heard people refer to the necessity of having their projects "blessed" by having the cats fall asleep on them before they can be considered truly "finished." -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 9 23:31:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9A3VIxK029571 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 23:31:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9A3UE3x010438 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Oct 2004 21:30:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9A3UADx097843; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 21:30:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.mc.surewest.net (smtp1.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9A3U9Dx097824 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 21:30:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-10513); Sat, 09 Oct 2004 20:26:35 -0700 Received: from unknown (64.30.124.24) by smtp1.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Sat, 09 Oct 2004 20:26:35 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20041009202907.00d62ba0@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 20:29:57 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Queen Elizabeth in armor? In-Reply-To: <4164A0A9.8070404@comcast.net> References: <200410061803.i96I32TX089820@net.indra.com> <200410061803.i96I32TX089820@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp1 SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=64.30.124.24 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:49 PM 10/6/2004 -0400, you wrote: >-Elisabeth >(sigh... my brain's still trying to come up with the period word that >describes the scenes and mini-pageant/plays that some guilds would sponsor >and/or put on during celebrations in London and other larger towns) I think the term you are looking for is "pageant". Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 10 04:51:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9A8prt3008959 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 04:51:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9A8j13x025168 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 10 Oct 2004 02:45:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9A8inDx053521; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 02:44:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9A8ijDx053431 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 02:44:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be10.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.16]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 3BE9926284B for ; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 10:44:40 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <004801c4aea5$72c73030$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200410092022.i99KM2E1062292@net.indra.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1705 German costume in America? Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 10:45:08 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, The early 1700 cut of mens clothes is basically the same as in mid 1700. But the coat has no pleats in the sides, they fall freely. There is a coat in Norah Waughs Cut of mens clothes from 1700. It has buttonholes all way down to the bottom and the sides has the same. The Cuffs are very big and heavy and they have 3 buttons in the front and 3 buttons at the back side. Breches are cut high in the waist and not as low as the mid 1700 ones (wich almost sits on the hips). A waistcoat from that time would have long sleaves wich goes longer than the coats cuffs. They also would be embellished heavily with buttons and buttonholes. You will be making a lot of buttonholes, if you are not good at this, you surely will be when you have finished such an outfit :-) There only is this early speciment in Norah Waughs book, only the cut of the coat, no waistcoat. But you could use the book Evolution of Fashion pattern and cut it has pattern cut of all parts. (These are made for theater use) but they are based from historical garments. Have Fun! Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "fastusminimus" To: Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 11:37 PM Subject: [h-cost] 1705 German costume in America? > Hi > My husband has decided he wants to try and portray Ye Olde Family > Ancestor...A German who wandered over to America in 1705 in the Upper > Chesapeake/PA region (gotta luv the Mormon data base!) > Is there an early 1800's elist out there? Other than the 1800 women's list? > Is there a huge diff in style of dress between say 1740-50 and 1705?? > I have some info on the 1750 stuff... > Thanks > Carol--luckily he picked up on the pick-a-time hints before I started > pants etc...I think looking at the $85 and up shoes had an effect > --me I'm looking at bare foot or wearing the socks with clocks > only indoors! > -- > Creative Clutter is Better Than Idle Neatness! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 10 09:42:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9ADgLs2016900 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 09:42:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9ADfS3x019260 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 10 Oct 2004 07:41:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9ADfHDx080115; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 07:41:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web51405.mail.yahoo.com (web51405.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.184]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9ADfFDx080049 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 07:41:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ivycircle@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20041010134110.56446.qmail@web51405.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.240.36.109] by web51405.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 06:41:10 PDT Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 06:41:10 -0700 (PDT) From: ~Angelique To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200410092022.i99KM2E1062292@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Linen weight and outer garments X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I would like to purchase some linen from the co-op we're having. Included is a 5.3 oz linen. Is this heavy enough for outer garments for 1540 england? What about Normans? (much earlier I think is what she told me but not exactly when) If not what is an apprpriate weight? Thank you , Angelique --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 10 14:00:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9AI09p6019932 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 14:00:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9AHx53x003471 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 10 Oct 2004 11:59:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9AHwuDx098617; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 11:58:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.204]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9AHwsDx098593 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 11:58:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from athurman@gmail.com) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 78so248390rnl for ; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 10:58:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.65.39 with SMTP id n39mr1208655rna; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 10:58:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.164.21 with HTTP; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 10:58:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7d21ac1904101010587584cd34@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 13:58:53 -0400 From: "A. Thurman" To: Historic Costume List Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] cats and sewing X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO De wrote: Do you not know that cats have a natural instinct for feng shui? The clawing on the fabric is letting you know that the fabric isn't feng shui. a solid piece of paper on an ironing board is not feng shui but many pieces all around restores the balance and flow. :) De Oh yes, kitty feng-shui! Mine too are adept at this, often knocking down books or re-arranging their food dishes when it doesn't suit their delicate (and incomprehensible) definition of wholeness and harmony! :P Someone also mentioned cats that chew patterns - one of mine used to have a problem with this (I've been using mostly newspaper lately, which seems to be less interesting). She liked to help me cut out and would roll around and get so excited about the pattern that she'd start gnawing the edges - and promptly run off if I caught her at it! Both cats have figured out how to pull pins out of the pincushions, so I have to keep these closed in my sewing box if I step away from a project for more than a couple of minutes. Re: cats and thread - this CAN kill them, I know because of a long series of trips to the vet and emergency surgery on one of mine last year. Please, PLEASE keep thread away from your furbabies; even put scrap thread in a closed container or garbage can to be sure! Allison T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 10 14:16:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9AIGxdq020198 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 14:16:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9AIGN3x004387 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 10 Oct 2004 12:16:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9AIGKDx007820; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 12:16:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9AIGHDx007794 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 12:16:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cahuff@mindspring.com) Received: from user-2inik5g.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.121.80.176] helo=[10.0.1.2]) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CGiEx-0003fQ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 14:16:16 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200410101801.i9AI0uE1099689@net.indra.com> References: <200410101801.i9AI0uE1099689@net.indra.com> Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 14:16:06 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: fastusminimus Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: 1705 German costume in America? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:01 PM -0600 10/10/04, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: >Hi, >The early 1700 cut of mens clothes is basically the same as in mid 1700. But >the coat has no pleats in the sides, they fall freely. >There is a coat in Norah Waughs Cut of mens clothes from 1700. It has >buttonholes all way down to the bottom and the sides has the same. The Cuffs >are very big and heavy and they have 3 buttons in the front and 3 buttons at >the back side. Breches are cut high in the waist and not as low as the mid >1700 ones (wich almost sits on the hips). >A waistcoat from that time would have long sleaves wich goes longer than the >coats cuffs. They also would be embellished heavily with buttons and >buttonholes. >You will be making a lot of buttonholes, if you are not good at this, you >surely will be when you have finished such an outfit :-) >There only is this early speciment in Norah Waughs book, only the cut of the >coat, no waistcoat. But you could use the book Evolution of Fashion pattern >and cut it has pattern cut of all parts. (These are made for theater use) >but they are based from historical garments. Thanks!!!! So then there wasn't a huge diff between say German and English silhouettes?...and of course we managed to pick a time with minimal documentation Alas I think that the beautiful work Bjarne does is not really appropriate for someone who came over to kill Indians (talk about your non-PC ancestor even horse thieves and pyrates rate higher )--but the basics sound like the same, just wools and linens...and guns...and yes I can do button holes by hand --grump, moan-- but I prefer Mr Singer... It was fun to see the teachers reaction when the grand niece did her presentation on "who your ancestor was"...... there was the quick phone call home... Ta Carol, whose early ancestors came over as indentured types... -- Creative Clutter is Better Than Idle Neatness! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 10 15:17:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9AJHper021002 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 15:17:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9AJHH3x007971 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 10 Oct 2004 13:17:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9AJHADx041054; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 13:17:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9AJH8Dx041033 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 13:17:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24A3F2CCA0 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 14:17:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t2p001.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.216.3]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 003F6D486 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 14:17:06 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: 1705 German costume in America? Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 14:17:28 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Was he a civilian when he came over or a soldier? Though it is not my era of major knowledge, yes there was some differences in clothing styles between the English and the German. Enough that the people in the colonies could tell who was from what part of Europe. Most civilians, to my knowledge, did not come over to kill "Indians" but to acquire land. Exception was the person hired to protect the colony from those deemed hostile to the members of the colony in exchange for land. Soldiers and Mercenaries were paid to protect the colony and at times would choose to buy land and stay in the America's instead of returning to Europe when their contract was up. I do not have urls to give to show the difference. Sorry. De -----Original Message----- Thanks!!!! So then there wasn't a huge diff between say German and English silhouettes?...and of course we managed to pick a time with minimal documentation Alas I think that the beautiful work Bjarne does is not really appropriate for someone who came over to kill Indians (talk about your non-PC ancestor even horse thieves and pyrates rate higher )--but the basics sound like the same, just wools and linens...and guns...and yes I can do button holes by hand --grump, moan-- but I prefer Mr Singer... It was fun to see the teachers reaction when the grand niece did her presentation on "who your ancestor was"...... there was the quick phone call home... Ta Carol, whose early ancestors came over as indentured types... -- Creative Clutter is Better Than Idle Neatness! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 10 15:48:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9AJmK4Y021311 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 15:48:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9AJli3x009635 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 10 Oct 2004 13:47:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9AJlfDx057991; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 13:47:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9AJlbDx057846 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 13:47:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be10.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.16]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 4FE66262882 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 21:47:24 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000701c4af02$0b73cb70$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 21:47:58 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 1705 german costume in America X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I know that the examples i mentioned before was upperclass. But remember that porer people followed the high fashion as much as they could and just used simpler fabrics. Wool suit would be very likely to use for your husbands suit. And then brass buttons. Here in Denmark, the french fashion came in via Germany so the fashion in Denmark was very like the germans. A man of this time would look as if his coat was much two big for him. It went down to under the knees. The waistcoat could be buttoned only in the waist and the cravatte tied a la Steinkirke, wich had one of the ends putten trough a buttonhole. At Gammel Estrup where i have made the courtdress, they have a big portrait of a gentleman in such a suit. I rember one of the curators told me that they thoaght the picture was out of proportions, but actually it is not. It is just the fashion wich is that way ........... Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 10 16:46:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9AKkAR7022007 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 16:46:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9AKjU3x012496 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 10 Oct 2004 14:45:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9AKjODx089089; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 14:45:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out003.verizon.net (out003pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9AKjMDx089060 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 14:45:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from Fiona ([151.199.132.156]) by out003.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20041010204521.DGFT26805.out003.verizon.net@Fiona> for ; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 15:45:21 -0500 From: "Ron Carnegie" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: 1705 German costume in America? Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 16:45:19 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out003.verizon.net from [151.199.132.156] at Sun, 10 Oct 2004 15:45:20 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It is a fringe of two of my areas of knowledge, and for most of the British colonies history (even more so by the 18th century) there are not garrisons of professional soldiers here. This is less true in the French and Spanish Colonies. Furthermore, as has been mentioned most did not come here to "kill" Indians. This is true even of the soldiers who when here were here to kill Europeans, the killing of the native peoples was a secondary effect. In fact it is this very issue that causes Bacon's Rebellion, (Bacon wanted to randomly kill Indians and Governor Berkeley forbade it) though a little earlier than the point of time in question. I am curious about the suggestion that an Indentured Servant is lower than a horse thief or pirate. Firstly an indentured servant is NOT the same as a Criminal Indenture. Indentured servants enter into a contractual obligation by choice, often to pay for passage, Criminal Indentures are sentences issued in Britain, and usually NOT to felons (there are exceptions to all things legal in Colonial America however). A frequent punishment for Indentured servants convicted of misdemeanors however was the extension of the indenture. A very common example of this would be adultery. Indentured Servitude confuses a great deal of Americans today, especially in family histories (and I imagine that most Europeans rarely consider it). I have had many people insist that there ancestors were white slaves, but there were no such thing in British North America. At least not legally. There could be slaves that appeared white. The condition of Slavery was based on the mother, so children of mixed heritage, born to a slave mother would be slave, but they are also not legally white. Of course this mixing of races could continue causing the possibility of cousins that look very much and just as white by appearance and yet one is free and the other slave due to their matrilineal condition. Enslaving those defined legally as whites WAS illegal. (So was curiously enough enslaving Christians or Moslems, though the slave code was altered to prevent converts from being freed. These differences are not simply linguistic. The rights enjoyed by an Indentured Servant were more numerous than a Criminal indenture and both enjoyed more than the slave (who yes does enjoy some rights legally, though they are very few). Of these three categories of people, only the slave is actually considered chattel property under the law. Horse thievery (being Grand Larceny) and Piracy are both punishable by death. Pirates are in fact frequently left in gibbets as warnings to others. Here in Williamsburg 13 members of Black beard's crew where left hanging which is NOT the usual procedure for hangings in Virginia. Black beard's head was supposedly left on a pike at Point Comfort which is near the entrance of the Chesapeake Bay. As far as regional differences in clothing a suspect that you will find that they are far less than is being suggested, but your best bet would be to consult artwork of the period from the region. I have two suits for this period (in fact meant for 1706) but neither of them are farmers. One is for the Acting Governor and the other a Barrister and therefore based upon judicial fashion. I also have seen and handled some original waistcoats of the period. In this same program, we also have a weaver and a Sheriff. Main differences between mid-century and early were described well by Bjarne. Breeches higher, they have a center fly, with an odd overlapping closure arrangement. The waistcoats tend to be sleeved. The sleeves and the backs are often of a different fabric than the fashion fabric, and apparently from the small sample of originals I have seen, often striped. The cuffs on the sleeves will be of the fashion fabric however as they are visible. The waistcoats button all the way down the front and are often about knee length. They are usually only fastened with the buttons to about the waist. They are cut very much like the typical reenactor 1750s patterns but even longer. The pocket flaps are often very low, much lower than would seem to make sense. The coats are again like the very full coats of the 1750s, I suspect that they are even fuller. This would make sense as the restoration coats were, and the change of century fashions seem to be a transition of this. They also have buttons all the way down the front and the lower pockets. Also very large fold back cuffs. I have never had the opportunity to study an original coat or breeches. My governor suit has fold back cuffs on the waistcoat that fold over the cuffs of the coat. In fact they are buttoned to the coat's buttons. I did not research this costume, but rather just wear it, but it is not like it's designer to make things like that up out of whole cloth. > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of otsisto > Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 2:17 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: 1705 German costume in America? > > > Was he a civilian when he came over or a soldier? > Though it is not my era of major knowledge, yes there was some differences > in clothing styles between the English and the German. Enough that the > people in the colonies could tell who was from what part of Europe. > Most civilians, to my knowledge, did not come over to kill > "Indians" but to > acquire land. Exception was the person hired to protect the colony from > those deemed hostile to the members of the colony in exchange for land. > Soldiers and Mercenaries were paid to protect the colony and at > times would > choose to buy land and stay in the America's instead of returning > to Europe > when their contract was up. > I do not have urls to give to show the difference. Sorry. > > De > > -----Original Message----- > Thanks!!!! > > So then there wasn't a huge diff between say German and English > silhouettes?...and of course we managed to pick a time with minimal > documentation > > Alas I think that the beautiful work Bjarne does is not really > appropriate for someone who came over to kill Indians (talk about > your non-PC ancestor even horse thieves and pyrates rate higher > )--but the basics sound like the same, just wools and > linens...and guns...and yes I can do button holes by hand --grump, > moan-- but I prefer Mr Singer... > > It was fun to see the teachers reaction when the grand niece did her > presentation on "who your ancestor was"...... there was the quick > phone call home... > > > Ta > Carol, whose early ancestors came over as indentured types... > -- > Creative Clutter is Better Than Idle Neatness! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 10 17:34:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9ALY5kO022560 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 17:34:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9ALX83x016573 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 10 Oct 2004 15:33:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9ALX4Dx016847; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 15:33:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp801.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp801.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.138]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9ALX0Dx016773 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 15:33:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp801.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Oct 2004 21:32:55 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041010223250.01523df0@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 22:33:17 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: 1705 German costume in America? In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There are images on the site below for the period, although the second one is not very helpful. You need to scroll down to see the male images. In addition to Bjarne's comments, in virtually all cases there is no collar, on the coat, but a narrow strip of binding of the same material as the coat. The sleeves are often very open, and finish half way down the forearm, in order to display the sleeve of the waistcoat.The pockets are indeed very low, and can be quite idiosyncratic in their shape and decoration. They might run parallel to the centre front for example. "Cut of Men's Clothes " by Norah Waugh gives several examples. There are also text descriptions of what was worn when, together with fabrics in use. There are reproductions of drawings from original sources as well as the patterns. http://alpha.furman.edu/~kgossman/history/restor/images.htm http://alpha.furman.edu/~kgossman/history/restor/images.htm There is a very early brown wool suit in the Museum of Costume in Bath, and a couple, I think in the Victoria and Albert Museum, in London. There is a pattern of a man's coat in Denmark in a book by Ellen Andersen, published by the National Museet in 1977. I think the title, in English, is "Fashions of the 18th Century," (or "the 1700's" - my Danish is not so good.) I think I also have patterns from the King's Wardrobe in Denmark, but I would have to look those out. I can't post pictures or scans at the moment, due to an ongoing hitch, but if anyone is interested, I will do so when I can get the hitch de-hitched. I am aware that the patterns of clothes for gentleman are not exactly what is worn by the ordinary man, but if you go a year of two earlier, you can at least get an idea of the shapes. Also there are photos of very early coats in the Hermitage in St. Petersburg, but they would have been court dress, copied from French fashion. One actually belonged to Peter the Great, and I seem to remember there is an effigy of him in a coat of the period Suzi. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 10 19:01:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9AN1Jae023668 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 19:01:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9AN0W3x025403 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 10 Oct 2004 17:00:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9AN0PDx065215; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 17:00:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9AN0NDx065160 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 17:00:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C66B34658 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 16:00:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041010155712.02783148@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 16:00:17 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen weight and outer garments In-Reply-To: <20041010134110.56446.qmail@web51405.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200410092022.i99KM2E1062292@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 06:41 AM 10/10/2004 -0700, you wrote: >I would like to purchase some linen from the co-op we're having. Included >is a 5.3 oz linen. Is this heavy enough for outer garments for 1540 >england? What about Normans? (much earlier I think is what she told me but >not exactly when) If not what is an apprpriate weight? Thank you , Angelique I would suggest the heavier 7.+ weight linen for an outer garment. I use the 5.3 oz for shirts and doublet linings. I use the 7+oz for interlinings of my husband's two noble doublets (with outer coverings in velvet). I do both major Tudor eras. I don't know anything about Normans. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 10 21:24:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9B1Ol7Y024957 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 21:24:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9B1O83x005259 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 10 Oct 2004 19:24:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9B1NvDx043395; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 19:23:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from indirectobject.com (066-241-084-045.bus.ashlandfiber.net [66.241.84.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9B1NtDx043357 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 19:23:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rreed@indirectobject.com) Message-Id: <200410110123.i9B1NtDx043357@net.indra.com> Received: from synergy ([192.168.1.1]) by indirectobject.com (WWW [192.168.1.200]) (MDaemon.PRO.v6.8.5.R) with ESMTP id 49-md50000000007.tmp for ; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 18:22:54 -0700 From: To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Linen weight and outer garments Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 18:23:02 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20041010155712.02783148@64.87.54.245> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-Index: AcSvHRLy6SQsvTf9QmKFD7O5dTp8CAAE0g/g X-Spam-Processed: WWW, Sun, 10 Oct 2004 18:22:54 -0700 (not processed: message from valid local sender) X-MDRemoteIP: 192.168.1.1 X-Return-Path: rreed@indirectobject.com X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've made kirtles and chemises from 5.3 oz linen. I typically line the bodice and sleeves of kirtles. I have also made some nice surcoats (top lined) from this weight of linen. I wouldn't use it for any outer piece of a Tudor costume -- most of those were heavier velvet or brocade and the like. Becky -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Kimiko Small Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 4:00 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen weight and outer garments At 06:41 AM 10/10/2004 -0700, you wrote: >I would like to purchase some linen from the co-op we're having. Included >is a 5.3 oz linen. Is this heavy enough for outer garments for 1540 >england? What about Normans? (much earlier I think is what she told me but >not exactly when) If not what is an apprpriate weight? Thank you , Angelique I would suggest the heavier 7.+ weight linen for an outer garment. I use the 5.3 oz for shirts and doublet linings. I use the 7+oz for interlinings of my husband's two noble doublets (with outer coverings in velvet). I do both major Tudor eras. I don't know anything about Normans. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 10 23:18:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9B3INaL026447 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 23:18:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9B3Hd3x018194 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 10 Oct 2004 21:17:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9B3HVDx006743; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 21:17:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9B3HSE0006709 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 21:17:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i9B3EZTA021910 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 23:14:35 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 23:14:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4169FB45.2030800@thibault.org> Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 23:17:25 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Gloves, 1260ish X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Folks, I was sent over to look at this manuscript by a friend, and in the course of "thumbing" through it on the web, found this very detailed image of gloves on three men. I know there are some glove-fanatics out there, so here's the link to the big image: http://www.nls.uk/digitallibrary/murthly/folios/f011r_f.htm Clear piecing of the thumb area, maybe a godet underneath it to the edge.... -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent (8.) The "independent and non-partisan" Commission on Presidential Debates is neither independent nor non-partisan. Walter Cronkite called CPD-sponsored debates an 'unconscionable fraud.' -- Connie Rice, NPR _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 11 03:10:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9B7AZQ8022589 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 03:10:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9B79u3x007925 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Oct 2004 01:09:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9B79fDx034596; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 01:09:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web50004.mail.yahoo.com (web50004.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.19]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9B79aDx034506 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 01:09:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20041011070931.79981.qmail@web50004.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web50004.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 08:09:31 BST Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 08:09:31 +0100 (BST) From: Marquesate Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: 1705 German costume in America? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20041010223250.01523df0@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Personally, I would never even use the notion of "German", you could possibly differentiate between "English" and "French" fashion of the period, eventhough the differences were slight, mostly merely regarding choice of fabric, etc. For more information: http://www.kipar.org/resources/index.html Nicole ___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 11 06:02:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9BA29ZN030173 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 06:02:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BA143x016239 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Oct 2004 04:01:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BA0oDx020842; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 04:00:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BA0iDx020801 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 04:00:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B99C52CB1C for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 05:00:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p128.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.214.130]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 3C2C3D3F0 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 05:00:42 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: 1705 German costume in America? Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 05:00:43 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <20041011070931.79981.qmail@web50004.mail.yahoo.com> Importance: Normal X-DCC-sonic.net-Metrics: net.indra.com 1117; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Technically, "Germany" did not exist in the 1700s. You have principalities. Prussia, Saxony, Hess, Mecklenburg, etc. Though this is not Germanic men's clothing of the 1700s it talks about a dress that is similar but different from French and English found in "German" portraits. What I was trying to say is that there was similarity in dress but there were differences. http://www.marquise.de/en/1700/allemande/index.shtml English men's http://www.nga.gov/cgi-bin/pimage?39489+0+0+gg63 English children of French Protestant ancestry painted by a "German" artist http://www.nga.gov/cgi-bin/pimage?61132+0+0 German(?)Rococo http://art-prints-on-demand.com/?&pid=666.html?xcmpx=1168 http://art-prints-on-demand.com/?&pid=666.html?xcmpx=1168 http://art-prints-on-demand.com/?&pid=666.html?xcmpx=1168 http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/m/mengs/index.html http://www.abcgallery.com/M/mengs/mengs.html Hope this helps. De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 11 06:18:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9BAIpc6030497 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 06:18:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BAII3x016922 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Oct 2004 04:18:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BAIADx029644; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 04:18:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from alpha2.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (alpha2.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.0.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BAI7Dx029559 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 04:18:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 11:17:57 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: RE: [h-cost] cotehardies and gothic dress yardages To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3B97@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] cotehardies and gothic dress yardages Thread-Index: AcSuDlsCQ5OhmKjwS1SZJpq4Yw+5WABbQ8eQ content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.20 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Can anyone tell me how much yardage I should buy for a man's and a > woman's costume? I've never made one before, and I am having an awful > time finding a web source that gives an estimated yardage for 14th > century clothing. I'm anticipating needing material for the > undershirt/tunic/dress and the outer garment plus lining. I need to > purchase the fabric before I draft the patterns, > unfortunately. Help is > appreciated. My "rule of thumb" for such things is hem to shoulder (plus seams and hem allowance) multiplied by four. Hope this helps Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 11 06:20:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9BAKMXn030527 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 06:20:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BAJq3x016987 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Oct 2004 04:19:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BAJpDx030470; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 04:19:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from alpha2.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (alpha2.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.0.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BAJoDx030451 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 04:19:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 11:19:46 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: RE: [h-cost] Hennin To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3B98@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Hennin Thread-Index: AcSuDlsCQ5OhmKjwS1SZJpq4Yw+5WABbVhWA content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.20 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Princess pointy-hats are called hennins, yes? (Hats not my area.) Is > > there any other historically accurate name for them? The little > > princess in question doesn't like that word. Something French instead, > > maybe? Why don't you just call it a "hat" or a "headdress" then? Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 11 07:22:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9BBMFaN031199 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 07:22:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BBLb3x020082 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Oct 2004 05:21:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BBLWDx060951; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 05:21:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.67]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BBLTDx060888 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 05:21:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dannw@lycos.com) Received: from wfilter.us4.outblaze.com (wfilter.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.180]) by webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix) with QMQP id 10D26180139C for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 11:21:24 +0000 (GMT) X-OB-Received: from unknown (208.36.123.34) by wfilter.us4.outblaze.com; 11 Oct 2004 11:21:23 -0000 Received: by ws7-5.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id CAC3DC610F; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 11:21:23 +0000 (GMT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Received: from [81.144.218.66] by ws7-5.us4.outblaze.com with http for dannw@lycos.com; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 11:21:23 +0000 From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 11:21:23 +0000 Subject: RE: [h-cost] cotehardies and gothic dress yardages X-Originating-Ip: 81.144.218.66 X-Originating-Server: ws7-5.us4.outblaze.com Message-Id: <20041011112123.CAC3DC610F@ws7-5.us4.outblaze.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Shouldn't you add enough for sleeves as well? Cheers, Danielle ----- Original Message ----- From: Teddy Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 11:17:57 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] cotehardies and gothic dress yardages > > > Can anyone tell me how much yardage I should buy for a man's and a > > woman's costume? I've never made one before, and I am having an awful > > time finding a web source that gives an estimated yardage for 14th > > century clothing. I'm anticipating needing material for the > > undershirt/tunic/dress and the outer garment plus lining. I need to > > purchase the fabric before I draft the patterns, > > unfortunately. Help is > > appreciated. > > My "rule of thumb" for such things is hem to shoulder (plus seams and > hem allowance) multiplied by four. > > Hope this helps > > Teddy > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > -- _______________________________________________ Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 11 07:44:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9BBihWI031427 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 07:44:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BBeK3x023418 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Oct 2004 05:40:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BBeJDx070748; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 05:40:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BBeGDx070638 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 05:40:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-8.13) id A10F1DDA0088; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 07:39:59 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.102 ([209.131.81.102] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 11 Oct 04 11:39:55 -0000 Message-ID: <001301c4af88$0bba7a80$665183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: 1705 German costume in America? Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 07:47:09 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-IMAIL-SPAM-STATISTICS: (710b1dda008841ce, 1.0000) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Carnegie" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 4:45 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: 1705 German costume in America? > It is a fringe of two of my areas of knowledge, and for most of the > British colonies history (even more so by the 18th century) there are not > garrisons of professional soldiers here. This is less true in the French > and Spanish Colonies. Furthermore, as has been mentioned most did not come > here to "kill" Indians. This is true even of the soldiers who when here > were here to kill Europeans, the killing of the native peoples was a > secondary effect. In fact it is this very issue that causes Bacon's > Rebellion, (Bacon wanted to randomly kill Indians and Governor Berkeley > forbade it) though a little earlier than the point of time in question. > > I am curious about the suggestion that an Indentured Servant is lower > than a horse thief or pirate. Firstly an indentured servant is NOT the same > as a Criminal Indenture. Indentured servants enter into a contractual > obligation by choice, often to pay for passage, Criminal Indentures are > sentences issued in Britain, and usually NOT to felons (there are > exceptions to all things legal in Colonial America however). A frequent > punishment for Indentured servants convicted of misdemeanors however was the > extension of the indenture. A very common example of this would be > adultery. > > Indentured Servitude confuses a great deal of Americans today, especially > in family histories (and I imagine that most Europeans rarely consider it). > I have had many people insist that there ancestors were white slaves, but > there were no such thing in British North America. At least not legally. > There could be slaves that appeared white. The condition of Slavery was > based on the mother, so children of mixed heritage, born to a slave mother > would be slave, but they are also not legally white. Of course this mixing > of races could continue causing the possibility of cousins that look very > much and just as white by appearance and yet one is free and the other slave > due to their matrilineal condition. Enslaving those defined legally as > whites WAS illegal. (So was curiously enough enslaving Christians or > Moslems, though the slave code was altered to prevent converts from being > freed. > > These differences are not simply linguistic. The rights enjoyed by an > Indentured Servant were more numerous than a Criminal indenture and both > enjoyed more than the slave (who yes does enjoy some rights legally, though > they are very few). Of these three categories of people, only the slave is > actually considered chattel property under the law. > > Horse thievery (being Grand Larceny) and Piracy are both punishable by > death. Pirates are in fact frequently left in gibbets as warnings to > others. Here in Williamsburg 13 members of Black beard's crew where left > hanging which is NOT the usual procedure for hangings in Virginia. Black > beard's head was supposedly left on a pike at Point Comfort which is near > the entrance of the Chesapeake Bay. > > As far as regional differences in clothing a suspect that you will find > that they are far less than is being suggested, but your best bet would be > to consult artwork of the period from the region. I have two suits for this > period (in fact meant for 1706) but neither of them are farmers. One is for > the Acting Governor and the other a Barrister and therefore based upon > judicial fashion. I also have seen and handled some original waistcoats of > the period. In this same program, we also have a weaver and a Sheriff. > > Main differences between mid-century and early were described well by > Bjarne. Breeches higher, they have a center fly, with an odd overlapping > closure arrangement. The waistcoats tend to be sleeved. The sleeves and > the backs are often of a different fabric than the fashion fabric, and > apparently from the small sample of originals I have seen, often striped. > The cuffs on the sleeves will be of the fashion fabric however as they are > visible. The waistcoats button all the way down the front and are often > about knee length. They are usually only fastened with the buttons to about > the waist. They are cut very much like the typical reenactor 1750s patterns > but even longer. The pocket flaps are often very low, much lower than would > seem to make sense. The coats are again like the very full coats of the > 1750s, I suspect that they are even fuller. This would make sense as the > restoration coats were, and the change of century fashions seem to be a > transition of this. They also have buttons all the way down the front and > the lower pockets. Also very large fold back cuffs. I have never had the > opportunity to study an original coat or breeches. > > My governor suit has fold back cuffs on the waistcoat that fold over the > cuffs of the coat. In fact they are buttoned to the coat's buttons. I did > not research this costume, but rather just wear it, but it is not like it's > designer to make things like that up out of whole cloth. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > > Behalf Of otsisto > > Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 2:17 PM > > To: Historical Costume > > Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: 1705 German costume in America? > > > > > > Was he a civilian when he came over or a soldier? > > Though it is not my era of major knowledge, yes there was some differences > > in clothing styles between the English and the German. Enough that the > > people in the colonies could tell who was from what part of Europe. > > Most civilians, to my knowledge, did not come over to kill > > "Indians" but to > > acquire land. Exception was the person hired to protect the colony from > > those deemed hostile to the members of the colony in exchange for land. > > Soldiers and Mercenaries were paid to protect the colony and at > > times would > > choose to buy land and stay in the America's instead of returning > > to Europe > > when their contract was up. > > I do not have urls to give to show the difference. Sorry. > > > > De > > > > -----Original Message----- > > Thanks!!!! > > > > So then there wasn't a huge diff between say German and English > > silhouettes?...and of course we managed to pick a time with minimal > > documentation > > > > Alas I think that the beautiful work Bjarne does is not really > > appropriate for someone who came over to kill Indians (talk about > > your non-PC ancestor even horse thieves and pyrates rate higher > > )--but the basics sound like the same, just wools and > > linens...and guns...and yes I can do button holes by hand --grump, > > moan-- but I prefer Mr Singer... > > > > It was fun to see the teachers reaction when the grand niece did her > > presentation on "who your ancestor was"...... there was the quick > > phone call home... > > > > > > Ta > > Carol, whose early ancestors came over as indentured types... > > -- > > Creative Clutter is Better Than Idle Neatness! > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 11 07:51:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9BBpR0u031561 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 07:51:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BBlC3x024778 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Oct 2004 05:47:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BBlADx074237; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 05:47:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BBl8Dx074191 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 05:47:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-8.13) id A2B524230060; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 07:47:01 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.102 ([209.131.81.102] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 11 Oct 04 11:47:00 -0000 Message-ID: <003201c4af89$08a18540$665183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "H-Costume" Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 07:54:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] lace bertha X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i9BBpR0u031561 Status: RO Can someone tell me when Battenberg lace came into use? I have a very nice 5-6" bertha that would go so nicely on an early 19th century dress or gown. Kathleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 11 07:52:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9BBqKoV031585 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 07:52:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BBm03x024932 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Oct 2004 05:48:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BBlxDx074634; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 05:47:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grunt3.ihug.co.nz (grunt3.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BBliDx074413 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 05:47:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from p924-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.195.162] by grunt3.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CGyeK-0005EC-00; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 00:47:32 +1300 Message-ID: <000f01c4af88$16ef96b0$a2c3adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20041011112123.CAC3DC610F@ws7-5.us4.outblaze.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] cotehardies and gothic dress yardages Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 00:47:29 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > My "rule of thumb" for such things is hem to shoulder (plus seams and > > hem allowance) multiplied by four. > Shouldn't you add enough for sleeves as well? (sorry had to chop this to be able to answer easily;) ) Not really, unless you were making a tube from all four panels;) When you cut your body pieces you'll have plenty of room left over to cut sleeves and facings with this guide. No way will you use the full width of fabric for each panel of a four panel gown. Not historical by any stretch of the imagination: http://costumes.glittersweet.com/movies/ladym.htm I'm 5'6" and a bit (darn osteopenia and shrinkage...) and that was made from 140cm wide fabric (56" or so) and barely 4 times from shoulder to floor.. actually to ankle. There is a good deal of fabric in the seam allowance as well and the pieced train is pleated into the back. A more authentic cut would have allowed a front insert as well as the back. The gown is going to be a LotR inspired gown instead as the sleeves just are not long enough for me to be happy. I have some totally anachronistic fabric to make the Lady m gown from;) And using techniques Ellen Terry said was used (paints and application of other texture though she didn't mention the beetle wings) there should still be nice texture and a good disguising of the fabric;) Or I could use some of the 15X7m green velveteen I have.....(just over 15X7 yards really) http://glittersweet.com/greenvelveteen.jpg michaela de bruce http://glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 11 08:03:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9BC3sZr031803 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 08:03:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BC3O3x028093 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Oct 2004 06:03:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BC3KDx082888; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 06:03:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.200]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9BC3HDx082812 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 06:03:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Oct 2004 12:03:12 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041011130034.01456c00@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 13:03:33 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] lace bertha In-Reply-To: <003201c4af89$08a18540$665183d1@rmitchellras> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 07:54 11/10/2004 -0400, you wrote: >Can someone tell me when Battenberg lace came into use? I have a very >nice 5-6" bertha that would go so nicely on an early 19th century dress or >gown. If this is the same as "tape lace" - I cannot find any reference to Battenburg lace in any of my lace books - then according to Margaret Simeon in her book " The History of Lace" it first became popular in the last quarter of the 19th century. This would mean that your collar is a bit late for an early 19th century gown. Suzi in London _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 11 08:07:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9BC7b3V031883 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 08:07:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BC6o3x028833 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Oct 2004 06:06:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BC6nDx084708; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 06:06:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BC6iDx084683 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 06:06:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cahuff@mindspring.com) Received: from user-38lci9k.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.73.52] helo=[10.0.1.2]) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CGywt-0005aS-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 08:06:44 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200410111020.i9BAKgE1030924@net.indra.com> References: <200410111020.i9BAKgE1030924@net.indra.com> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 08:06:33 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: fastusminimus Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: indentured vs horse thief... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 4:20 AM -0600 10/11/04, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: > I am curious about the suggestion that an Indentured Servant is lower >than a horse thief or pirate. Firstly an indentured servant is NOT the same >as a Criminal Indenture. Indentured servants enter into a contractual Ah no, It was my DH hubby's ancestor --the one that came over and ended up as said paid killer that I referred to as regarded as so non-PC today, rating lower than a horse thief...and then stayed and settled--we are still untangling the tree Looks like two brothers came over... MY side of the family started as indentured...just plain folks that came over and then stayed as farmers...no idea wether the indenture was voluntary or not. Ta Carol--ain't genealogy fun! -- Creative Clutter is Better Than Idle Neatness! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 11 08:13:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9BCDGDq031991 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 08:13:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BCCk3x029997 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Oct 2004 06:12:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BCCjDx087893; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 06:12:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BCChDx087883 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 06:12:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cahuff@mindspring.com) Received: from user-38lci9k.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.73.52] helo=[10.0.1.2]) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CGz2g-00044Z-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 08:12:43 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200410111020.i9BAKgE1030924@net.indra.com> References: <200410111020.i9BAKgE1030924@net.indra.com> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 08:12:31 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: fastusminimus Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re:1705 German Costume in America.... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 4:20 AM -0600 10/11/04, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: >A man of this time would look as if his coat was much two big for him. It >went down to under the knees. The waistcoat could be buttoned only in the >waist and the cravatte tied a la Steinkirke, wich had one of the ends putten >trough a buttonhole. >At Gammel Estrup where i have made the courtdress, they have a big portrait >of a gentleman in such a suit. I rember one of the curators told me that >they thoaght the picture was out of proportions, but actually it is not. It >is just the fashion wich is that way ........... Thank you all for your help!!! You have given me a good start and made various family members very happy! Sigh -- now to start on muslins...But hey at least the first pair o stockings will work and the wool is washing for the second set....what a treat to work with a nice combing fleece all for me!!! It is long fairly fine and very lustrous --- should glow like silk when done and hopefully I can drop the needle size one or two '0's... Ta Carol -- Creative Clutter is Better Than Idle Neatness! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 11 08:28:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9BCSXxh032281 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 08:28:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BCS13x003354 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Oct 2004 06:28:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BCRuDx095941; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 06:27:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mk-smarthost-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-smarthost-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BCRrDx095880 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 06:27:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from reholliday@lineone.net) Received: from mk-cpfront-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.3]:58099 helo=mk-cpfrontend.uk.tiscali.com) by mk-smarthost-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CGzHJ-0003we-6H; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 13:27:49 +0100 Received: from [195.157.53.197] by mk-cpfrontend.uk.tiscali.com with HTTP; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 13:27:47 +0100 Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 13:27:47 +0100 Message-ID: <41644246000246C1@mk-cpfrontend-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com> In-Reply-To: <200410111020.i9BAKgE0030924@net.indra.com> From: "Rachel" To: h-costume@indra.com, H-needlework@ansteorra.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i9BCRrDx095880 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Mens shirt 1585-1600 finally finished! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear All I have finally uploaded the last of the pictures from the partial recontruction of the mens shirt from the Musuem of Costume in Bath. Furthermore I have just receieved permsission from the musuem to add an article on the construction with details obtained from the curators notes so watch this space. It will also update some of the measurements in Janet Arnolds article, as these are slightly different and do make a difference when making up the shirt. The pictures can be found at: http://www.threadsofhistory.co.uk/commissions/bkshirt/index.htm Enjoy! Rachel Threads of History www.threadsofhistory.co.uk __________________________________________________________________ Get Tiscali Broadband From Ł15:99 http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadbandhome/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 11 08:38:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9BCc9ga032482 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 08:38:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BCbZ3x004900 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Oct 2004 06:37:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BCbXDx001172; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 06:37:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.202]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9BCbTDx001117 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 06:37:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Oct 2004 12:37:24 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041011133735.0153ef68@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 13:37:47 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mens shirt 1585-1600 finally finished! In-Reply-To: <41644246000246C1@mk-cpfrontend-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com> References: <200410111020.i9BAKgE0030924@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 13:27 11/10/2004 +0100, you wrote: >Dear All > >I have finally uploaded the last of the pictures from the partial >recontruction >of the mens shirt from the Musuem of Costume in Bath. Furthermore I have >just receieved permsission from the musuem to add an article on the >construction >with details obtained from the curators notes so watch this space. It will >also update some of the measurements in Janet Arnolds article, as these >are slightly different and do make a difference when making up the shirt. > >The pictures can be found at: > >http://www.threadsofhistory.co.uk/commissions/bkshirt/index.htm > >Enjoy! > >Rachel >Threads of History >www.threadsofhistory.co.uk Congratulations. You have done a very beautiful job. Suzi in London >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 11 08:38:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9BCcuIL032505 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 08:38:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BCcP3x004937 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Oct 2004 06:38:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BCcNDx001540; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 06:38:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BCcADx001427 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 06:38:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from Bellview.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i9BCc8Dn023533 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 08:38:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20041011083704.00b4b328@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 08:38:09 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mens shirt 1585-1600 finally finished! In-Reply-To: <41644246000246C1@mk-cpfrontend-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com> References: <200410111020.i9BAKgE0030924@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Rachel... a lovely reproduction. Congratulations! Bridgette / Mari >The pictures can be found at: > >http://www.threadsofhistory.co.uk/commissions/bkshirt/index.htm _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 11 10:13:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9BEDJ7k001513 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 10:13:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BE8q3x010517 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Oct 2004 08:08:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BE8dDx055786; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 08:08:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BE8WDx055597 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 08:08:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7beba.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.186]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 0CAEA47FE5F for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 16:08:18 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <004a01c4af9b$d1c24ce0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 16:08:44 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] mens shirt finally finished X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Rachel. That is awsome work you have done here, it is fabulous and gorgeous and what a look! Thanks a lot for the peak of it! Must have taken you ages to make. It looks so fine as the real one, like if it was painted on. Gosh! Congratulations!!!!!! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 11 11:36:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9BFair7002444 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 11:36:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BFUJ3x018659 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Oct 2004 09:30:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BFUCDx020003; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 09:30:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41507.mail.yahoo.com (web41507.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9BFU9Dx019871 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 09:30:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celtic_dragonrider@yahoo.ca) Message-ID: <20041011153003.48864.qmail@web41507.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.82.52.78] by web41507.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 11:30:03 EDT Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 11:30:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Janet Renzetti To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Happy Thanksgiving X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just wanted to post a Happy THanksiving to one and all. I know most of you are probably American, but me being Canadian, we are celebrating it and would like to be thankful that I have places like this to go to learn explore and share. Janet --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 11 12:35:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9BGZ1X0002690 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 12:35:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BGYL3x026841 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Oct 2004 10:34:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BGYDDx077810; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 10:34:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-118.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BGY9Dx077668 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 10:34:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by mail.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48E9B425D5 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 12:03:28 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <416AB606.9040802@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 11:34:14 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mens shirt 1585-1600 finally finished! References: <41644246000246C1@mk-cpfrontend-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com> In-Reply-To: <41644246000246C1@mk-cpfrontend-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Rachel wrote: > I have finally uploaded the last of the pictures from the partial recontruction > of the mens shirt from the Musuem of Costume in Bath. > > http://www.threadsofhistory.co.uk/commissions/bkshirt/index.htm Beautiful work. Makes me wish my eyes and my coordination weren't shot.... I'm looking forward to the shirt construction details when you add them. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 11 13:04:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9BH4nuR002863 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 13:04:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BH4E3x000725 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Oct 2004 11:04:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BH4ADx004905; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 11:04:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-118.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BH45Dx004775 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 11:04:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by mail.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFCF1425D5 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 12:33:24 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <416ABD0A.4000507@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 12:04:10 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] fitting question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Howdy, Some of you may remember my attempts at rebuilding a c.1890 dress and turning it into a c.1869 dress this summer. Here's how it came out: http://www.reddawn.net/costume/halloween/gunslingers.jpg That's me in purple on the left. I'm pretty happy with the conversion, I know it isn't completely authentic in detail, but it had the right feel, for that event anyway. What does bother me is the way the bodice fits under the arm. You can see in the photo the way it pulls. I'd like to know how to correct that, or at least avoid it in the future. Does anyone have any advice or suggestions for improving the fit? Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 11 13:37:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9BHbTFv003081 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 13:37:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BHVS3x004056 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Oct 2004 11:31:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BHVIDx029588; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 11:31:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp802.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp802.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.139]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9BHVCDx029247 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 11:31:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp802.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Oct 2004 17:30:55 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041011183107.01519d90@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 18:31:19 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] fitting question In-Reply-To: <416ABD0A.4000507@reddawn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:04 11/10/2004 -0500, you wrote: Howdy, Some of you may remember my attempts at rebuilding a c.1890 dress and turning it into a c.1869 dress this summer. Here's how it came out: http://www.reddawn.net/costume/halloween/gunslingers.jpg That's me in purple on the left. I'm pretty happy with the conversion, I know it isn't completely authentic in detail, but it had the right feel, for that event anyway. What does bother me is the way the bodice fits under the arm. You can see in the photo the way it pulls. I'd like to know how to correct that, or at least avoid it in the future. Does anyone have any advice or suggestions for improving the fit? Try putting a period correct pad in the armhole, to pad out the gap between arm and bosom. This is seen in many mid 19th century bodices. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 11 14:14:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9BIEkLi003313 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 14:14:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BIE73x009184 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Oct 2004 12:14:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BIDwDx067070; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 12:14:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (chori.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BIDsDx066883 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 12:13:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ldownward@chori.org) X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Sophos http://raeinternet.com/mpp Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP-TLS id 1523132 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 11:13:47 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.0.0.040405 Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 11:13:47 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mens shirt 1585-1600 finally finished! From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <41644246000246C1@mk-cpfrontend-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i9BIDsDx066883 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Rachel, this is wonderful. What weight fabric is this made of? Handkerchief linen? LynnD > From: Rachel > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 13:27:47 +0100 > To: , > Subject: [h-cost] Mens shirt 1585-1600 finally finished! > > Dear All > > I have finally uploaded the last of the pictures from the partial > recontruction > of the mens shirt from the Musuem of Costume in Bath. Furthermore I have > just receieved permsission from the musuem to add an article on the > construction > with details obtained from the curators notes so watch this space. It will > also update some of the measurements in Janet Arnolds article, as these > are slightly different and do make a difference when making up the shirt. > > The pictures can be found at: > > http://www.threadsofhistory.co.uk/commissions/bkshirt/index.htm > > Enjoy! > > Rachel > Threads of History > www.threadsofhistory.co.uk > > __________________________________________________________________ > Get Tiscali Broadband From Ł15:99 > http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadbandhome/ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 11 14:30:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9BIUWOM003386 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 14:30:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BITv3x010849 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Oct 2004 12:29:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BITpDx080247; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 12:29:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BITlDx080194 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 12:29:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cahuff@mindspring.com) Received: from user-2iniki6.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.121.82.70] helo=[10.0.1.2]) by barry.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CH4vU-0000pK-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 14:29:41 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200410111708.i9BH7vE1008161@net.indra.com> References: <200410111708.i9BH7vE1008161@net.indra.com> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 14:29:20 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: fastusminimus Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: men's shirt..... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:08 AM -0600 10/11/04, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: >I have finally uploaded the last of the pictures from the partial >recontruction >of the mens shirt from the Musuem of Costume in Bath. Furthermore I have >just receieved permsission from the musuem to add an article on the >construction >with details obtained from the curators notes so watch this space. It will >also update some of the measurements in Janet Arnolds article, as these >are slightly different and do make a difference when making up the shirt. > >The pictures can be found at: > >http://www.threadsofhistory.co.uk/commissions/bkshirt/index.htm Oh pretty pretty!!! Yes please let us know when the updates are ready! Ta Carol -- Creative Clutter is Better Than Idle Neatness! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 11 17:29:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9BLTQDJ006169 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:29:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BLSa3x029974 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Oct 2004 15:28:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BLSRBt031998; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 15:28:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9BLRoBt031399 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 15:27:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m08.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABAYX8YPANMJ8VJ for (sender ); Mon, 11 Oct 2004 14:27:41 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/Oo9ukl5R6vToR1/0gumvWGw= Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id J9PMAGRR; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 14:27:32 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 14:27:07 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mens shirt 1585-1600 finally finished! Message-ID: <20041011.142710.1636.2.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-ContentStamp: 2:2:4212528403 X-MAIL-INFO: 3320a520444da500e0cde9adf0f159f175ed208dc451f199d0f1d0b059f131fda975b13554b4548971d0d414c454b9a4ddedddd15d55dd7d7d3944405d347d5525716011d97971203814c13d9d0db9607004f505494429a560e5652d51fda454fdb41d3194f49484e1e0e120b0f1e1f0f061c4e5b075f0f1b1fd1d748538b579d9b57114259db94160a114b9bdd5b9f5f5bd09d5090915113889c1e990296491e064202091e1e0e1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It's really wonderful, Rachel. Such lovely work! Arlys > > http://www.threadsofhistory.co.uk/commissions/bkshirt/index.htm ________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/ month - visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 11 17:46:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9BLk0Z3006296 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:46:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BLjN3x001707 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Oct 2004 15:45:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BLjMBt046491; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 15:45:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.198]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9BLj7Bt046254 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 15:45:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Aspasia1@gmail.com) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 75so481406rnl for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 14:44:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.24.78 with SMTP id 78mr1508488rnx; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 14:44:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.67.15 with HTTP; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 14:44:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4ef943ba0410111444467105fd@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:44:39 -0400 From: Bonnie Booker To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] lace bertha In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20041011130034.01456c00@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <003201c4af89$08a18540$665183d1@rmitchellras> <5.1.0.14.2.20041011130034.01456c00@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >Can someone tell me when Battenberg lace came into use? I have a very > >nice 5-6" bertha that would go so nicely on an early 19th century dress or > >gown. In LEGACY OF LACE by Kathleen Warnick and Shirley Nilsson has it back to at least the 15th century. It went by other names as well, such as Renaissance Lace, Brussels Lace, Ribbon Lace, and one of the styles of Belgium Lace. You can find more at http://www.belgiantapestries.com/nesletters/march01/lacehistory.htm and http://www.belgian-lace.com/store/Info/1hist.htm. -- Aspasia Moonwind _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 11 20:48:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9C0m0Kp009012 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 20:48:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9C0lM3x016809 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Oct 2004 18:47:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9C0lABt078131; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 18:47:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9C0l5Bt078089 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 18:47:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.39] (p23.3c01.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.39]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i9C0jIG08669 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 18:45:18 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20041011183107.01519d90@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20041011183107.01519d90@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] fitting question Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 18:51:32 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am not seeing any fitting darts or seams on the bodice front except a princess seam way to the side. Is there another one? Because a princess seam so far over does not help shape the bust as needed, which may be the problem. Sylrog On Oct 11, 2004, at 11:31 AM, Suzi Clarke wrote: > At 12:04 11/10/2004 -0500, you wrote: > Howdy, > > Some of you may remember my attempts at rebuilding a c.1890 dress and > turning it into a c.1869 dress this summer. Here's how it came out: > > http://www.reddawn.net/costume/halloween/gunslingers.jpg > > That's me in purple on the left. I'm pretty happy with the conversion, > I know it isn't completely authentic in detail, but it had the right > feel, for that event anyway. > > What does bother me is the way the bodice fits under the arm. You can > see in the photo the way it pulls. I'd like to know how to correct > that, or at least avoid it in the future. Does anyone have any advice > or suggestions for improving the fit? > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 11 21:29:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9C1TiZN009596 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 21:29:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9C1TD3x020110 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Oct 2004 19:29:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9C1TABt005340; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 19:29:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9C1T6Bu005255 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 19:29:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from [209.128.242.222] (acty1222.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.242.222]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i9C1SjC2008828 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 21:28:57 -0400 Message-ID: <416B332B.3000106@dandy.net> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 21:28:11 -0400 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Soviet (female) military uniform References: <20041007171717.69354.qmail@web52703.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20041007171717.69354.qmail@web52703.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. What period is "vintage" for you? Is ir WWII (I would look for images of Soviet women snipers from the "Great Patriotic War") or later? Good Luck, Mike T. tessalina wrote: >Help, please! > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 11 22:23:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9C2NjAr010407 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 22:23:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9C2NB3x024206 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Oct 2004 20:23:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9C2N5Bt039819; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 20:23:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m20.mx.aol.com (imo-m20.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9C2N2Bt039742 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 20:23:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.29.6323f0fe (3948) for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 22:22:52 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <29.6323f0fe.2e9c99fc@aol.com> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 22:22:52 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] fitting question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 10/11/2004 8:48:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, sylvia@ntw.net writes: > What does bother me is the way the bodice fits under the arm. You can > >see in the photo the way it pulls. I'd like to know how to correct > >that, or at least avoid it in the future. Does anyone have any advice > >or suggestions for improving the fit? > Your bust looks too low...or rather in a 21st century location. A corset might raise it to the right level. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 11 22:46:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9C2kcR0010742 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 22:46:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9C2jw3x025811 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Oct 2004 20:45:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9C2jsBt054291; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 20:45:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-118.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9C2joBt054183 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 20:45:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by mail.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C84C425D5 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 22:15:09 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <416B4565.1080401@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 21:45:57 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] fitting question References: <29.6323f0fe.2e9c99fc@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <29.6323f0fe.2e9c99fc@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > > Your bust looks too low...or rather in a 21st century location. A corset > might raise it to the right level. I was wearing a corset, that's part of what annoys me about the fit. I don't have much to squeeze into a corset, but without it that dress doesn't close. I may need to re-draft the corset, though. :( Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 11 23:03:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9C33lvc010871 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 23:03:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9C33H3x026845 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Oct 2004 21:03:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9C33ABt065131; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 21:03:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9C334Bu065027 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 21:03:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from [209.128.248.26] (acty3026.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.248.26]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i9C32cC2013426 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 23:02:49 -0400 Message-ID: <416B4946.4000009@dandy.net> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 23:02:30 -0400 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval Children References: <6.1.2.0.0.20041008041603.01def180@pop.lightspeed.ca> In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20041008041603.01def180@pop.lightspeed.ca> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Heather. The Museum of London has a number of items in their 1650-1680 collection, including pipeclay figures and other toys, and a waistcoat (knitted) in a children's size. There is also what appears to be a pewter toy made in the shape of a sideboard, complete with beaker and plates (15th Cent.?), and a number of what might be pewter toys (dishes, flasks, etc.) from the van Beuningen collection in Holland. For extant clothing, look at "Clothes and the Child" by Anne Buck and "The Guide to Historic Costume" by Karen Baclawski. For images of children, look to "Pride and Joy; Children's portraits in the Netherlands 1500-1700" edited by Jan Baptist Bedaux and Rudi Ekkart, which contains photos of extant clothing on pg. 74 and extant toys starting on pg 297 Cheers, Mike T.. >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 11 23:52:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9C3qB6P011041 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 23:52:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9C3pP3x000603 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Oct 2004 21:51:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9C3pBBt095390; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 21:51:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9C3p6Bt095310 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 21:51:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CEB6176BC for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 20:51:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041011204632.02342180@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 20:50:44 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mens shirt 1585-1600 finally finished! In-Reply-To: <41644246000246C1@mk-cpfrontend-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com> References: <200410111020.i9BAKgE0030924@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 01:27 PM 10/11/2004 +0100, you wrote: >Furthermore I have >just receieved permsission from the musuem to add an article on the >construction >with details obtained from the curators notes so watch this space. It will >also update some of the measurements in Janet Arnolds article, as these >are slightly different and do make a difference when making up the shirt. Hello Rachel, I love the work you have done on the shirt blackwork embroidery and the shirt as well. It is wonderful. I also look forward to your construction details, as that is almost the kind of shirt I am looking to work on for my husband. I had recreated his shirt from the Janet Arnold info I found online, but there is indeed something missing. Your shirt is the closest I have seen recreated that is similar to this image: http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Henry2.jpg , which is what I am trying to make for my husband (minus the full jeweled gold band). Thanks so much for sharing. Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 12 00:16:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9C4Gp6v011209 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 00:16:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9C4GG3x003003 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Oct 2004 22:16:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9C4GFBt010662; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 22:16:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9C4GCBu010607 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 22:16:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from [209.128.248.26] (acty3026.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.248.26]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i9C4FNC2026251 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 00:16:00 -0400 Message-ID: <416B5A51.3040501@dandy.net> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 00:15:13 -0400 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Happy Thanksgiving References: <20041011153003.48864.qmail@web41507.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20041011153003.48864.qmail@web41507.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks, Janet, Mike T. (an Italian-Amerian, among other things...) Janet Renzetti wrote: >I just wanted to post a Happy THanksiving to one and all. I know most of you are probably American, but me being Canadian, we are celebrating it and would like to be thankful that I have places like this to go to learn explore and share. > >Janet > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 12 00:40:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9C4e9qD011543 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 00:40:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9C4dU3x004528 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Oct 2004 22:39:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9C4dRBt024028; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 22:39:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.iinet.net.au (mail-10.iinet.net.au [203.59.3.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9C4dLBt023919 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 22:39:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from garden@earthlydelights.com.au) Received: (qmail 13778 invoked from network); 12 Oct 2004 04:39:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO earthlydelights.com.au) (203.173.2.58) by mail.iinet.net.au with SMTP; 12 Oct 2004 04:39:19 -0000 Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:44:44 +1000 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mens shirt 1585-1600 finally finished! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Aylwen & John Garden To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <41644246000246C1@mk-cpfrontend-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com> Message-Id: <70465520-1C09-11D9-89EA-000393B11100@earthlydelights.com.au> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i9C4dLBt023919 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I love your shirt. I have started some of the same design to use in a chemise. I'm looking for more examples of womens garments containing blackwork - does anyone have any links to share with me? Many thanks, Aylwen ----------------------------------------------- http://www.earthlydelights.com.au ----------------------------------------------- On Monday, October 11, 2004, at 10:27 PM, Rachel wrote: > Dear All > > I have finally uploaded the last of the pictures from the partial > recontruction > of the mens shirt from the Musuem of Costume in Bath. Furthermore I > have > just receieved permsission from the musuem to add an article on the > construction > with details obtained from the curators notes so watch this space. It > will > also update some of the measurements in Janet Arnolds article, as these > are slightly different and do make a difference when making up the > shirt. > > The pictures can be found at: > > http://www.threadsofhistory.co.uk/commissions/bkshirt/index.htm > > Enjoy! > > Rachel > Threads of History > www.threadsofhistory.co.uk > > __________________________________________________________________ > Get Tiscali Broadband From Ł15:99 > http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadbandhome/ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 12 01:07:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9C57Zar011894 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 01:07:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9C5763x006457 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Oct 2004 23:07:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9C56xBt039493; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 23:07:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm43.prodigy.net (ylpvm43-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9C56sBt039425 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 23:06:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-76-229.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.76.229]) by ylpvm43.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9C5719q003068 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 01:07:01 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20041011211955.03208aa0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 21:20:54 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] lace bertha In-Reply-To: <4ef943ba0410111444467105fd@mail.gmail.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20041011130034.01456c00@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> <003201c4af89$08a18540$665183d1@rmitchellras> <5.1.0.14.2.20041011130034.01456c00@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >It went by other names as well, such as >Renaissance Lace, That's a 19th century name for it. > Brussels Lace, Bobbin lace appliqued to more bobbin lace. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 12 02:53:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9C6rZLj032604 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 02:53:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9C6qw3x011979 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Oct 2004 00:52:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9C6qlBt097924; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 00:52:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9C6qfBt097854 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 00:52:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id C65D12E3B5 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 23:52:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041011232841.00b15380@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 23:52:14 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kimiko Small Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Tudor dress diaries X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all I recently finished my husband's Tudor black velveteen doublet with base, and his Italian bonnet. I just got the photos from Hanford faire, where he is dressed in it all. He's also wearing the blackwork shirt I made for him. The photos also show my son wearing the simple linen chemise and reworked blue velveteen gown he wore. I have been wanting to share this with you all for awhile, but figured I could wait until the photos came in. I have a few LJ entries that covers them all: * Tudor Doublet & Base Dress Diary (with photos) http://www.livejournal.com/users/sstormwatch/146987.html (with detail photos) http://www.livejournal.com/users/sstormwatch/148706.html http://www.livejournal.com/users/sstormwatch/150202.html http://www.livejournal.com/users/sstormwatch/154008.html (with faire photos of the whole outfits) * A Toddler's Linen Chemise. http://www.livejournal.com/users/sstormwatch/148756.html * HAT DIARY: Making an Italian bonnet http://www.livejournal.com/users/sstormwatch/131960.html http://www.livejournal.com/users/sstormwatch/135070.html http://www.livejournal.com/users/sstormwatch/153846.html (with detail photos of hat) Now on to working on my costume stuff. I have to spiff up my old Tudor dress for Kearney faire, as I have been putting it off for far too long. I figured I could wait, since I had appropriate stuff, and my husband and son had nothing appropriate. My basic dress is fine for now, it just doesn't have the right "jewels", the hoops need replacing, I need a new linen chemise, a new forepart, and matching under sleeves. I only hope I can do this all in the next month. Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 12 03:22:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9C7MMmG008358 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 03:22:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9C7Lj3x013242 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Oct 2004 01:21:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9C7LgBt014778; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 01:21:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9C7LdBt014758 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 01:21:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2697B11AEA for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 00:21:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041011235621.0224dfa0@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 00:21:36 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small In-Reply-To: <70465520-1C09-11D9-89EA-000393B11100@earthlydelights.com.a u> References: <41644246000246C1@mk-cpfrontend-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Women's blackwork garments (was Mens shirt 1585-1600 finally finished!) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 02:44 PM 10/12/2004 +1000, you wrote: >I love your shirt. I have started some of the same design to use in a >chemise. I'm looking for more examples of womens garments containing >blackwork - does anyone have any links to share with me? >Many thanks, Aylwen Hi Aylwen, I have the following links so far. Not all are for women's garments, however, but they have blackwork somewhere. An Elizabethan Smock and Shirt (the original shirt that was reproduced by Rachel) http://costume.dm.net/bath/ Shirts and Smocks at the V&A Museum http://costume.dm.net/va/smocks.html Shirts, smocks, and chemise http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/gallery/linens/undies.html There is a blackworked shirt at the bottom of the page. Elizabethan Smocks & Chemises http://costume.dm.net/chemise.html Cut, Construction, and Ornamentation of Elizabethan Shirts http://home.earthlink.net/~magdlena/shirt/shirt.html I used the info on this page as a starting point in making my husband's shirt. Blackwork Designs: For historical blackwork designs, I would normally point a person to Bronwyn's site, but most of the info has been temporarily pulled. But here's the link anyway. http://costume.dm.net/blackwork/index.html Elizabethan Blackwork: The Blackwork Embroidery Archives http://www.blackworkarchives.com/ Skinner Sisters: Stitch On Line: Blackwork Issue http://www.skinnersisters.com/stitch/issue1/index.html I had a few more links, but they aren't working for some reason or another. But hopefully the above will help you. Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 12 03:25:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9C7PfX1008806 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 03:25:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9C7Ov3x013366 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Oct 2004 01:24:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9C7OuBt016504; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 01:24:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from indirectobject.com (066-241-084-045.bus.ashlandfiber.net [66.241.84.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9C7OqBt016452 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 01:24:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rreed@indirectobject.com) Message-Id: <200410120724.i9C7OqBt016452@net.indra.com> Received: from synergy ([192.168.1.1]) by indirectobject.com (WWW [192.168.1.200]) (MDaemon.PRO.v6.8.5.R) with ESMTP id 28-md50000000009.tmp for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 00:24:07 -0700 From: To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Tudor dress diaries Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 00:24:07 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20041011232841.00b15380@64.87.54.245> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-Index: AcSwKEz8mlUYJuKXSluii8VrJSGXPAAA/eUQ X-Spam-Processed: WWW, Tue, 12 Oct 2004 00:24:07 -0700 (not processed: message from valid local sender) X-MDRemoteIP: 192.168.1.1 X-Return-Path: rreed@indirectobject.com X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What a beautiful family you have. I especially like the look on your son's face. He looks like he could bolt away at any second! Lovely work on both items! Becky -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Kimiko Small Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 11:52 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Tudor dress diaries Hi all I recently finished my husband's Tudor black velveteen doublet with base, and his Italian bonnet. I just got the photos from Hanford faire, where he is dressed in it all. He's also wearing the blackwork shirt I made for him. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 12 03:32:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9C7WcDN009740 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 03:32:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9C7W93x013781 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Oct 2004 01:32:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9C7W8Bt020399; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 01:32:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mk-smarthost-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-smarthost-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9C7W1Bt020309 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 01:32:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from reholliday@lineone.net) Received: from mk-cpfront-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.6]:59897 helo=mk-cpfrontend.uk.tiscali.com) by mk-smarthost-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CHH8T-0001zE-PI for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 08:31:53 +0100 Received: from [195.157.53.197] by mk-cpfrontend.uk.tiscali.com with HTTP; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 08:31:53 +0100 Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 08:31:53 +0100 Message-ID: <416442460001CD19@mk-cpfrontend-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com> In-Reply-To: <200410111708.i9BH7vE0008161@net.indra.com> From: "Rachel" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i9C7W1Bt020309 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 818 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Bjarne, I have to confess I am still a little overawed by it myself. Once I saw it on its owner I had real difficulty believing that I actually produced it! When you have worked on something for so long (100+ hours - I stopped counting after about 20 on the cuffs!) you get very used to noticing all the little bits that aren't quite right as you are so close to the detail. And then seeing it finished it's a bit of a shock. I tried really hard to get as close to the original as possible. I hope I got someway there. Glad you liked it. I'll try and get the construction notes tryped up and posted to the site this weekend. Then it's on to the next project! Rachel >-- Original Message -- ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 16:08:44 +0200 From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" Subject: [h-cost] mens shirt finally finished To: Message-ID: <004a01c4af9b$d1c24ce0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dear Rachel. That is awsome work you have done here, it is fabulous and gorgeous and what a look! Thanks a lot for the peak of it! Must have taken you ages to make. It looks so fine as the real one, like if it was painted on. Gosh! Congratulations!!!!!! Bjarne Threads of History www.threadsofhistory.co.uk __________________________________________________________________ Get Tiscali Broadband From Ł15:99 http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadbandhome/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 12 08:28:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9CCSEnQ017334 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 08:28:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9CCRW3x001987 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Oct 2004 06:27:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9CCRKBt073523; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 06:27:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9CCRHBt073453 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 06:27:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-8.13) id AD9C57500CE; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 08:27:08 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.106 ([209.131.81.106] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 12 Oct 04 12:27:03 -0000 Message-ID: <000f01c4b057$cc183b80$6a5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.0.14.2.20041011130034.01456c00@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] lace bertha Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 08:34:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you, Suzi. This was my recollection also; I did wonder though about its earliest use. Now I will look at some of the designs for the late 19th C. I can conceive of bretells, but hate to cut it. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzi Clarke" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 8:03 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] lace bertha > At 07:54 11/10/2004 -0400, you wrote: > >Can someone tell me when Battenberg lace came into use? I have a very > >nice 5-6" bertha that would go so nicely on an early 19th century dress or > >gown. > > > If this is the same as "tape lace" - I cannot find any reference to > Battenburg lace in any of my lace books - then according to Margaret Simeon > in her book " The History of Lace" it first became popular in the last > quarter of the 19th century. This would mean that your collar is a bit late > for an early 19th century gown. > > Suzi in London > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 12 08:42:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9CCg6l2017627 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 08:42:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9CCfZ3x004627 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Oct 2004 06:41:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9CCfTBt081724; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 06:41:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.200]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9CCfOBt081647 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 06:41:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Oct 2004 12:41:18 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041012133759.014572d0@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:41:15 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] lace bertha In-Reply-To: <000f01c4b057$cc183b80$6a5183d1@rmitchellras> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20041011130034.01456c00@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:34 12/10/2004 -0400, you wrote: >Thank you, Suzi. This was my recollection also; I did wonder though about >its earliest use. Now I will look at some of the designs for the late 19th >C. I can conceive of bretells, but hate to cut it. >Kathleen >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Suzi Clarke" >To: "Historical Costume" >Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 8:03 AM >Subject: Re: [h-cost] lace bertha > > > > At 07:54 11/10/2004 -0400, you wrote: > > >Can someone tell me when Battenberg lace came into use? I have a very > > >nice 5-6" bertha that would go so nicely on an early 19th century dress >or > > >gown. Just a thought - mostly collars from the first third of the century tend to be embroidered muslin, known as whitework or Ayrshire work. They vary in size from small and delicate to enormous pelerines. I do not recall seeing any kind of bobbin or needle lace used for a whole collar, only for edgings. I have a few fashion plates of the early period, and whitework is very popular. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 12 09:33:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9CDXcoG018739 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 09:33:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9CDWq3x017067 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Oct 2004 07:32:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9CDWlBt012499; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 07:32:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9CDWhBt012388 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 07:32:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m2.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABAYZZG6ASRB97J for (sender ); Tue, 12 Oct 2004 06:32:12 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCsNIRgrZeOWjRkniVuUkZXhUYYwLhKsxKQ== Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id J9RCFHV5; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 06:31:28 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 07:57:40 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor dress diaries Message-ID: <20041012.075741.-116104643.3.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-4 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-ContentStamp: 2:2:806916826 X-MAIL-INFO: 190e83a72edbbfba3bbee37787cfcbfb33ef9313f72acfdea39e170b8e6e0b0f0f8eee6eeeeecab78a1aea470ab37b67027b232367030203 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Very nice! I particularly like the way you did the trim. Can't wait to see the complete outfit! Karen ________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/ month - visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 12 09:36:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9CDaPa2018787 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 09:36:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9CDY63x017147 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Oct 2004 07:34:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9CDY5Bt013249; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 07:34:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d22.mx.aol.com (imo-d22.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9CDXfBt012941 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 07:33:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.1aa.29e02e0b (25098) for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 09:33:34 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1aa.29e02e0b.2e9d372e@aol.com> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 09:33:34 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] lace bertha To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 10/12/2004 8:42:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, suzi@suziclarke.co.uk writes: > I do not recall seeing > any kind of bobbin or needle lace used for a whole collar, A friend who collects vintage has one [1830s, medium size...comes slightly past the shoulders and the fronts dip to about 8" below the waist when tucked into a belt] that is made of delicate white net dotted with flowers in couched cord-like stuff...like a delicate sutach[sp]. It's very bobbin lace-like....but I don't know much about different laces. What does one call such lace....cord couched onto net? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 12 09:39:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9CDdYMc018845 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 09:39:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9CDd43x017461 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Oct 2004 07:39:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9CDd4Bt016362; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 07:39:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m19.mx.aol.com (imo-m19.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9CDd2Bt016289 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 07:39:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Chindora@aol.com) Received: from Chindora@aol.com by imo-m19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.85.18831ce7 (4328) for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 09:38:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Chindora@aol.com Message-ID: <85.18831ce7.2e9d3869@aol.com> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 09:38:49 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5000 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Thanks for suggestions :) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings :) I really appreciate all of the suggestions for supplies and construction techniques that were offered here in response to my query about beaded girdles. I will post pictures when I eventually get it completed, but please do not expect it to be too soon. My husband is deployed in the Middle East and is due to return in December, and I have a slew of sewing projects to complete before then. Our four year old is getting a blue moire silk tafetta dress patterned after a Victorian Middy, complete with an Inishmacsaint lace sailor style collar, and a red cotton velvet coat and hat. I have a new dress to make as well as several heirloom lingerie pieces out of silk and French laces. I am also about to begin a blackwork shirt for the husband, and all of the info here on that subject has been great. A friend has a birthday this month and I have just started an Italian Bonnet from the same pattern that Kimiko has made and discussed, so that is another point of interest for me. Busy? Yeah, but then, I have five kids and it is always busy in one way or another. I cannot tell you all how much I enjoy this list, and how much it means to me to be part of a group that is so willing to share and learn from each other. It is nice that even though we have different motivations, and each of us has our own distinct comfort level with authenticity, that we can gel together so nicely and create such a harmonious atmosphere for education. :) ~Kimberley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 12 14:21:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9CILiSf024552 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:21:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9CIAP3x018885 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Oct 2004 12:10:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9CI9rBt039897; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 12:10:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm01.prodigy.net (ylpvm01-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9CI9jBt039776 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 12:09:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-54-31.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.54.31]) by ylpvm01.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9CI9at2007288 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:09:37 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20041012110426.031c7ce0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 11:07:07 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: authenticity (was Re: [h-cost] Thanks for suggestions :) In-Reply-To: <85.18831ce7.2e9d3869@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >and each of us >has our own distinct comfort level with authenticity, that we can gel >together so nicely and create such a harmonious atmosphere for education. It always amuses me that so many of us here are quite heavily into authenticity for periods which didn't have computer lists on which to learn how to do those periods more authentically ;) CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 12 16:13:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9CKDe5b026738 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 16:13:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9CK6E3x001990 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:06:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9CK66Bt037883; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:06:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9CK63Bt037837 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:06:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from khanson@kc.rr.com) Received: from karen (CPE-65-26-141-89.kc.rr.com [65.26.141.89]) by ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id i9CK609W010760 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 15:06:00 -0500 (CDT) From: "khanson" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 15:08:23 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20041012133759.014572d0@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 1880s patterns X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I need to make his and hers clothing circa 1880 for a Halloween murder mystery party coming up soon. Obviously I don't need exceedingly accurate clothing, but would like us to look nice. Can anyone recommend commercial patterns for this (ie, Simplicity, Butterick etc). Would want patterns that aren't too complicated, since this is only for costumes. Talia _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 12 16:45:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9CKjCHf027361 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 16:45:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9CKi53x006295 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:44:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9CKhvBt068961; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:44:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-118.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9CKhsBt068825 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:43:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by mail.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A6E0425D5 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 16:13:06 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <416C4210.6040600@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 15:44:00 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1880s patterns References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO khanson wrote: > I need to make his and hers clothing circa 1880 for a Halloween murder > mystery party coming up soon. Obviously I don't need exceedingly accurate > clothing, but would like us to look nice. Oooh.... we did that last year, minus the murder. :) Simplicity 5457 (women) is the only one I know of in their line. I don't know of any McCall's patterns for that time period. Butterick has 3721 for men, which I have used, and it works ok. The design is for "morning" ie, 'daytime' wear, not evening. I consulted "The Cut of Men's Clothes" for diagrams on evening coats and made alterations to the lower front sides. There were some problems with the directions, steps were skipped and one of the diagrams for placing the pockets is wrong (and I think the pocket piece was marked wrong, too, so beware) Butterick also has 4154 which is a generic pattern for women that can be made to look like a couple different eras, including 1880-ish. Be warned that the bustle drape is in a separate accessory pattern set. Then there's 4212 which might work for you, but I think it's getting into 1890's in style. None of the women's patterns are very accurate, but they give you the right sort of feel. I would suggest consulting something like "59 Authentic Turn of the Century Patterns" or one of the other Victorian fashion catalogue reprints that Dover has out these days. Fortunately for the men, evening wear hasn't changed all that much in over 100 years, and a nice dark suit dressed out with a pocket watch, top hat, silk handkerchief, tie, and gloves will work for your husband. I found a lot of the accessories at formalwear clearance sales and local thrift shops. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 12 18:13:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9CMDxdL028612 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:13:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9CMDI3x016243 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Oct 2004 16:13:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9CMD2Bt041068; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 16:13:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m25.mx.aol.com (imo-m25.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9CMCrBt040851 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 16:12:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.1d9.2da348cc (17079) for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:12:39 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1d9.2da348cc.2e9db0d7@aol.com> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:12:39 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1880s patterns To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There is...was?....a Simplicity pattern for a jacket that is very good: 8591. The interesting thing about this pattern is it is for a modern outfit. The jacket can easily be made pretty accurate....even more so than some of their costume 1890s. I used it to make an Q&D 1860s outfit. It has the double darted front that is so very common in the 19th century. What you have to change is the back and sleeves but this is easy. The back has banana darts each side of CB. I just extend the dart lines down to the jacket hem and curve them up into the armseye and add a CB seam instead of cutting it on the fold. This gives you a 4 piece back instead of a one piece with darts. You can flare or add gussets below the waistline in back to get that fish tail effect in the peplum area they did back then. The sleeves need to be exploded at the top too and gathered into the armseye to make them leg-o-mutton sleeves. Just vertically slice the pattern in 3 or 4 places from the sleeve head to the elbow and fan it apart to add the fullness. Also add 5" or so the height of the center top tapering it down in a curve to the original line about 2' before you get to the underarm seam. It's really very easy. Even if writing these instructions sounds complicated, the actual doing of it is not hard to understand. Try it. An 1890s skirt is not so simple but there are tons of patterns in books to follow. All you need is the waist, hip and waist-to-hem measurements. You could use the 8591 skirt as a base [it's a straight long skirt with darts to fit it from hip to waist] by flaring the front from the hips down to, oh about 40" total at the hem, and using a half circle [two quarter circles with a CB seam] for the back. Or make 4 to 6 gores that equal a half circle using the darts on the pattern as a guide....like with the back jacket. I swear it's easy. Have fun! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 12 18:17:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9CMHumF028685 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:17:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9CMGc3x016759 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Oct 2004 16:16:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9CMGbBt044526; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 16:16:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m14.mx.aol.com (imo-m14.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.204]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9CMEaBt042638 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 16:14:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.25.5083599a (17079) for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:14:27 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <25.5083599a.2e9db142@aol.com> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:14:26 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1880s patterns To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Alas....now that I've gone through all the instructions I see the pattern number 8519 no longer exists. Drat! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 12 18:19:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9CMJW3T028715 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:19:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9CMIH3x017004 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Oct 2004 16:18:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9CMIEBt045871; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 16:18:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9CMHNBt045120 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 16:17:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.cd.1831192d (17079) for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:17:14 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:17:14 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1880s patterns To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And it was 8519....NOT 8591.... I'm not only behind the times but dyslexic! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 12 21:26:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9D1Qoi0032078 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:26:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9D1QG3x003609 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Oct 2004 19:26:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9D1Q7Bt056744; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 19:26:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.203]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9D1Q4Bt056712 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 19:26:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Aspasia1@gmail.com) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 73so835362rnl for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:26:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.181.6 with SMTP id d6mr2152582rnf; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:26:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.67.15 with HTTP; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:26:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4ef943ba04101218265dbd75ce@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:26:03 -0400 From: Bonnie Booker To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] lace bertha In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20041011211955.03208aa0@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <003201c4af89$08a18540$665183d1@rmitchellras> <5.1.0.14.2.20041011130034.01456c00@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> <4ef943ba0410111444467105fd@mail.gmail.com> <4.3.1.2.20041011211955.03208aa0@mail.frys.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > > Brussels Lace, > > Bobbin lace appliqued to more bobbin lace. > The site I quoted shows to kinds of Brussels Lace. Yes, one is the Bobbin Lace type, the other is a Bobbin Lace tape with needlework stitches between to make a design. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 12 21:41:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9D1f8J1032331 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:41:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9D1ZO3x004185 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Oct 2004 19:35:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9D1ZNBt061703; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 19:35:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web13522.mail.yahoo.com (web13522.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.125]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9D1ZMBt061693 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 19:35:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pioneercynthia@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20041013013522.99011.qmail@web13522.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.77.28.249] by web13522.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:35:22 PDT Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:35:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Ms Cynthia Schrage To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200410071757.i97HvPE1078667@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Costume Bibliography X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear All, Does anyone have a good bibliography of costuming works, sites, etc. Thanks, Cynthia _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 12 21:41:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9D1fNX0032340 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:41:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9D1et3x004615 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Oct 2004 19:40:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9D1esBt064751; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 19:40:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web13525.mail.yahoo.com (web13525.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.215]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9D1eoBt064733 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 19:40:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pioneercynthia@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20041013014050.40938.qmail@web13525.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.77.28.249] by web13525.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:40:50 PDT Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:40:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Ms Cynthia Schrage To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200410081204.i98C4KE1096882@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Period Bird Embroidery X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear all (probably Bjarne, the most!), Does anyone have any good sources for 1730-1850 (roughly) embroidery of birds? I would prefer birds, as opposed to ones (like the phoenix). I am looking for something nice to embroider on a friend's pockets for Christmas. Thanks a lot, Cynthia _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 12 22:03:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9D23NFc032759 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 22:03:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9D1vb3x005781 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Oct 2004 19:57:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9D1vXBt073087; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 19:57:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from demon.comcen.com.au (demon.comcen.com.au [203.23.236.89]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9D1vUBu072988 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 19:57:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from karinne@spin.net.au) Received: from demon.comcen.com.au (localhost.comcen.com.au [127.0.0.1]) by demon.comcen.com.au (8.12.11/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i9D1vH2N099401 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:57:17 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from karinne@spin.net.au) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by demon.comcen.com.au (8.12.11/8.12.3/Submit) id i9D1vH48099400 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:57:17 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: demon.comcen.com.au: nobody set sender to karinne@spin.net.au using -f Received: from www-cache0.usyd.edu.au (www-cache0.usyd.edu.au [129.78.64.100]) by webmail.spin.net.au (IMP) with HTTP for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:57:17 +1000 Message-ID: <1097632637.416c8b7d21749@webmail.spin.net.au> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:57:17 +1000 From: karinne@spin.net.au To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Bibliography References: <20041013013522.99011.qmail@web13522.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20041013013522.99011.qmail@web13522.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.1 X-Originating-IP: 129.78.64.100 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Cynthia, The MedCos community maintains a list of resources including websites and books useful to costumers for periods pre-1600. You can find them at: http://slumberland.org/medcos you can either create an account (safe and friendly bunch of people, with no spam etc.) or visit as a guest if you just want to look at the resources. Regards, Karinne MedCos 16th Century moderator Quoting Ms Cynthia Schrage : > Dear All, > > Does anyone have a good bibliography of costuming > works, sites, etc. > > Thanks, > Cynthia > > > > _______________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! > http://vote.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 12 22:15:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9D2FqB1000606 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 22:15:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9D2F73x007169 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Oct 2004 20:15:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9D2F6Bt082567; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 20:15:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-118.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9D2F5Bt082494 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 20:15:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by mail.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35584425D5 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:44:16 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <416C8FAF.3080603@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:15:11 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] OT: costume humor (not PC) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This site reviews ready-made halloween costumes that you can buy online. I started in the "men's" section and wandered over to the Lord of the Rings listings, and since I've nearly spit my drink out over the keyboard three times now I thought I would pass this on. http://www.phillyburbs.com/Halloween/ Don't look if you're going to be offended at sarcastic comments on silly, cheap costumes. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 12 22:16:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9D2Gs0X000630 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 22:16:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9D26A3x006578 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Oct 2004 20:06:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9D26ABt077931; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 20:06:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9D268Bt077917 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 20:06:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FF295D322 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 19:06:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041012190209.028c8340@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 19:04:41 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Bibliography In-Reply-To: <20041013013522.99011.qmail@web13522.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200410071757.i97HvPE1078667@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 06:35 PM 10/12/2004 -0700, you wrote: >Dear All, > >Does anyone have a good bibliography of costuming >works, sites, etc. > >Thanks, >Cynthia Oh, my what a question. Is there any specific time frame you are looking for or just in general? My suggestion for a general list of sites (I am presuming Internet sites) would be The Costumer's Manifesto http://www.costumes.org You can spend hours on this site, chasing all the links on a particular subject. As for bibliography, again, what time frame? There are soooo many books out there. Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 12 22:17:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9D2HOEr000644 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 22:17:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9D2Gr3x007365 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Oct 2004 20:16:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9D2GqBt083680; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 20:16:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.202.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9D2GoBt083598 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 20:16:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from ches (c-24-1-84-130.client.comcast.net[24.1.84.130]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <2004101302164401200334q7e>; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 02:16:44 +0000 Message-ID: <06cf01c4b0ca$50720ab0$6d00a8c0@ches> From: "Chiara" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20041013013522.99011.qmail@web13522.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Bibliography Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:02:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have one specific to Gloves. Chiara `°ş¤ř,¸¸,ř¤ş°` ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ms Cynthia Schrage" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 8:35 PM Subject: [h-cost] Costume Bibliography : Dear All, : : Does anyone have a good bibliography of costuming : works, sites, etc. : : Thanks, : Cynthia : : : : _______________________________ : Do you Yahoo!? : Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! : http://vote.yahoo.com : _______________________________________________ : h-costume mailing list : h-costume@mail.indra.com : http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 12 23:49:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9D3nxvQ002383 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 23:49:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9D3n03x014073 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:49:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9D3mtBt030699; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:48:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hall.mail.mindspring.net (hall.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9D3mrBt030685 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:48:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) Received: from 209-165-50-132.jps.net ([209.165.50.132] helo=[209.165.46.231]) by hall.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CHa8C-0006no-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 23:48:52 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <416C8FAF.3080603@reddawn.net> References: <416C8FAF.3080603@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 20:42:52 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: OT: costume humor X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 9:15 PM -0500 10/12/04, Dawn wrote: >This site reviews ready-made halloween costumes that you can buy >online. I started in the "men's" section and wandered over to the >Lord of the Rings listings, and since I've nearly spit my drink out >over the keyboard three times now I thought I would pass this on. > >http://www.phillyburbs.com/Halloween/ > >Don't look if you're going to be offended at sarcastic comments on >silly, cheap costumes. I have to share this: I happened to see the "Best Dressed" issue of People Magazine in the dentist's office last week (ordinarily I never see this magazine at all) and some of the comments in the back (Worst Dressed) section were hilarious. My favorite one was of a nice-looking female celebrity wearing fairly nice jeans and a shirt, with one of those crocheted shawls over it with big square meshes. The comment underneath was "Not much of a fashion threat, but somewhere the salmon are nervous." -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 12 23:52:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9D3qTr3002423 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 23:52:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9D3po3x014441 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:51:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9D3pgBt032091; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:51:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9D3peBt032076 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:51:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hardcorps@earthlink.net) Received: from grover.psp.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.78.249]) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CHaAt-0004lr-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 20:51:39 -0700 Message-ID: <26456750.1097639499877.JavaMail.root@grover.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:51:39 -0600 (GMT-06:00) From: Frank and Tracy Thallas To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: costume humor (not PC) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You shouldn't read some of these while eating a PBJ sandwich, either... Thanks for the giggle! Liadain -----Original Message----- From: Dawn Sent: Oct 12, 2004 8:15 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] OT: costume humor (not PC) This site reviews ready-made halloween costumes that you can buy online. I started in the "men's" section and wandered over to the Lord of the Rings listings, and since I've nearly spit my drink out over the keyboard three times now I thought I would pass this on. http://www.phillyburbs.com/Halloween/ Don't look if you're going to be offended at sarcastic comments on silly, cheap costumes. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 03:04:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9D74fa3028558 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 03:04:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9D73v3x026516 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 01:03:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9D73mJ2025522; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 01:03:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.196]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9D73fJ2025402 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 01:03:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Oct 2004 07:03:36 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041013080241.01457670@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 08:03:30 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Bibliography In-Reply-To: <06cf01c4b0ca$50720ab0$6d00a8c0@ches> References: <20041013013522.99011.qmail@web13522.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 21:02 12/10/2004 -0500, you wrote: >I have one specific to Gloves. > > Chiara > >: Does anyone have a good bibliography of costuming >: works, sites, etc. >: >: Thanks, >: Cynthia I'd be interested in that one, please. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 05:49:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9D9nhjX007399 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 05:49:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9D9nB3x006696 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 03:49:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9D9n2J2093984; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 03:49:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from asmtp-a063f29.pas.sa.earthlink.net (asmtp-a063f29.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.120.131]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9D9n0J2093958 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 03:49:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from dialup-4.152.117.177.dial1.atlanta1.level3.net ([4.152.117.177] helo=MOM) by asmtp-a063f29.pas.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CHfkg-0006mz-HA for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 02:48:59 -0700 Message-ID: <010101c4b109$ed4439f0$0300a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 05:49:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 140fedcc4d524cc6b18d26c2e407058b94f5150ab1c16ac08f4233f47979de26a1359241fcf0d9bf062750510f87fff2350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.152.117.177 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 1912-1920s Fashion Designers X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i9D9nhjX007399 Status: RO I have up-loaded 40 new (to our online Library) color fashion plates by fashion designers from the 1912-1920s. These additions give a total of 94 fashion plates in our series, Fashion Designers of Their Time, http://www.costumegallery.com/Designers/ . Near the end of this message is a listing of the designers with new fashion plate additions. We are also in the process of adding Spanish translations for some fashion plates in this series. I will be working on this translation for the designer Agnes this week. When visiting our Designers series, if you see a fashion plate credited to L'Art et la Mode, there is generally a French and English translations. This week, I will be adding to the Library all the fashion articles from a June 1923 issue of a French magazine L'Art et la Mode (Art & Fashion). There will be French and English translations of these articles. To keep up with the updates to our online Costume Library go to: http://www.costumegallery.com/updates.htm LIST OF NEW FASHION PLATES (DATING 1912-1923) PER DESIGNER *** Paul Poiret: 8 plates *** House of Worth: 4 plates *** House of Rodier: 2 plates *** Emile, Ltd. (hair salon): 2 plates *** Jacque Doucet: 2 plates *** Georges Doeuillet: 7 plates *** John Redfern: 1 plate *** Madeleine Cheruit: 2 plates *** Jeanne Lanvin: 11 plates Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Online Reference Library, AND Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumegallery.com/research.htm www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 06:40:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9DAeaFZ008476 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 06:40:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DAdu3x016518 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 04:39:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DAdoJ2015777; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 04:39:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from alpha2.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (alpha2.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.0.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DAdlJ2015750 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 04:39:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:39:42 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: RE: [h-cost] cotehardies and gothic dress yardages To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3BAC@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] cotehardies and gothic dress yardages Thread-Index: AcSvtUHSdXCCYsLeSJG5VixoReB/ZQBW2rYQ content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.20 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > My "rule of thumb" for such things is hem to shoulder (plus seams and > > hem allowance) multiplied by four. > Shouldn't you add enough for sleeves as well? I usually get the sleeves and extra skirt gores from the fabric to the side of the bodice -part. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 07:26:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9DBQffT009278 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 07:26:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DBPc3x020442 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 05:25:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DBPWJ2035774; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 05:25:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DBPTJ2035719 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 05:25:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-8.13) id A0A21C6D0116; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 07:25:22 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.113 ([209.131.81.113] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 13 Oct 04 11:25:17 -0000 Message-ID: <001301c4b118$55ec56a0$715183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1880s patterns Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 07:32:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO May I suggest for "his" that you pick up a suit with vest from a thrift shop and modify it. You will need to take the crease out of the trousers and add one or two more buttons to the jacket front. Steam press the lapels open and re fold before you do this. There will still be a bit of a curve on the top button placement, but for the occasion, this should be ok. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "khanson" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 4:08 PM Subject: [h-cost] 1880s patterns > I need to make his and hers clothing circa 1880 for a Halloween murder > mystery party coming up soon. Obviously I don't need exceedingly accurate > clothing, but would like us to look nice. Can anyone recommend commercial > patterns for this (ie, Simplicity, Butterick etc). Would want patterns that > aren't too complicated, since this is only for costumes. > > Talia > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 09:32:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9DDW3QQ010949 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:32:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DDVN3x028266 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 07:31:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DDUeG2012350; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 07:30:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DDUbG2012305 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 07:30:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from ches (c-24-1-84-130.client.comcast.net[24.1.84.130]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <2004101313303201600bvgd5e>; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:30:32 +0000 Message-ID: <08e901c4b128$8bbf1320$6d00a8c0@ches> From: "Chiara" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20041013013522.99011.qmail@web13522.mail.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20041013080241.01457670@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Bibliography Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 08:24:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://www.glove.org/glovebooks.htm Chiara `°ş¤ř,¸¸,ř¤ş°` ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzi Clarke" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 2:03 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Bibliography : At 21:02 12/10/2004 -0500, you wrote: : >I have one specific to Gloves. : > : > Chiara : > : >: Does anyone have a good bibliography of costuming : >: works, sites, etc. : >: : >: Thanks, : >: Cynthia : : : I'd be interested in that one, please. : : Suzi : : : _______________________________________________ : h-costume mailing list : h-costume@mail.indra.com : http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 09:33:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9DDXsnE010982 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:33:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DDXM3x028397 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 07:33:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DDXLG2013685; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 07:33:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DDWTG2013178 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 07:32:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32faa.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.170]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 7A19B262813 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:32:15 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <003001c4b129$1a83d780$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20041013014050.40938.qmail@web13525.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Period Bird Embroidery Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:32:34 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1074; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Cynthia, I have not found any birds to embroider from period works, but what i did is i went to ebay store and searched for chinese silk embroidery. It comes up with a lot of beautifull embroideries, and many of those have birds sitting on branches. Then i composed my birds from this! Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ms Cynthia Schrage" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 3:40 AM Subject: [h-cost] Period Bird Embroidery > Dear all (probably Bjarne, the most!), > > Does anyone have any good sources for 1730-1850 > (roughly) embroidery of birds? I would prefer > birds, as opposed to ones (like the phoenix). > > I am looking for something nice to embroider on a > friend's pockets for Christmas. > > Thanks a lot, > Cynthia > > > > > > _______________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! > http://vote.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 09:43:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9DDhk4e011163 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:43:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DDgq3x029107 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 07:42:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DDgpG2018463; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 07:42:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-118.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DDgoG2018418 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 07:42:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by mail.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9226425D5 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:11:48 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <416D30D7.3080203@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 08:42:47 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Henry VIII and Tudor sleeves X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO All, I have the urge to make the outer 'coat' layer from Henry VIII's famous portrait by Holbein, and I spent some time last night looking up pictures and comparing them to the pattern I have. Every time I have seen this garment made it's been constructed with a short puffed sleeve gathered into a band above the elbow. But this isn't what I see in the portrait. http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/h/holbein/hans_y/1535h/02henry8.jpg There's something else going on with the sleeve, I can see part of it hanging behind his arm. I just can't make out what the sleeve is supposed to be shaped like. More examples here: http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/h/holbein/hans_y/1535h/06henry8.jpg http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/h/holbein/hans_y/2drawing/1543/6henry8.jpg Does anyone know what this sleeve is shaped like, how it is constructed, or can you point me to other images where the garment is more clearly depicted? Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 10:14:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9DEEfjc011687 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:14:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DEEB3x002310 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 08:14:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DEE7G2036218; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 08:14:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41503.mail.yahoo.com (web41503.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.86]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9DEE3G2036163 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 08:14:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celtic_dragonrider@yahoo.ca) Message-ID: <20041013141358.17646.qmail@web41503.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.82.52.78] by web41503.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:13:58 EDT Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:13:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Janet Renzetti Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII and Tudor sleeves To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <416D30D7.3080203@reddawn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It looks to me like it is a full puff not just a top puff and because it is full under his arm is pushed flat. Most puff sleeves flattenout out under the arm and the puff is only made for the top or front part of the sleeve. Theya re bulky and uncomfortable, but worse when the ouff wraps around the arms. Also he has a peblum/flower pedal thing happening for decoration on the cuff. Janet Dawn wrote: All, I have the urge to make the outer 'coat' layer from Henry VIII's famous portrait by Holbein, and I spent some time last night looking up pictures and comparing them to the pattern I have. Every time I have seen this garment made it's been constructed with a short puffed sleeve gathered into a band above the elbow. But this isn't what I see in the portrait. http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/h/holbein/hans_y/1535h/02henry8.jpg There's something else going on with the sleeve, I can see part of it hanging behind his arm. I just can't make out what the sleeve is supposed to be shaped like. More examples here: http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/h/holbein/hans_y/1535h/06henry8.jpg http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/h/holbein/hans_y/2drawing/1543/6henry8.jpg Does anyone know what this sleeve is shaped like, how it is constructed, or can you point me to other images where the garment is more clearly depicted? Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 12:19:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9DGIxfA014143 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:18:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DGIN3x015627 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:18:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DGI9G2028359; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:18:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.201]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9DGI0G2027964 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:18:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Oct 2004 16:17:42 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041013171602.01511960@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:16:35 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Bibliography In-Reply-To: <08e901c4b128$8bbf1320$6d00a8c0@ches> References: <20041013013522.99011.qmail@web13522.mail.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20041013080241.01457670@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:24 13/10/2004 -0500, you wrote: >http://www.glove.org/glovebooks.htm > > > >: At 21:02 12/10/2004 -0500, you wrote: >: >I have one specific to Gloves. >: > >: > Chiara Thank you. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 12:20:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9DGKjVA014178 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:20:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DGKK3x016007 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:20:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DGKFG2030225; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:20:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.201]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9DGI1G2027985 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:18:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Oct 2004 16:17:42 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041013171530.01511430@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:15:39 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII and Tudor sleeves In-Reply-To: <416D30D7.3080203@reddawn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:42 13/10/2004 -0500, you wrote: >All, > >I have the urge to make the outer 'coat' layer from Henry VIII's famous >portrait by Holbein, and I spent some time last night looking up pictures >and comparing them to the pattern I have. Every time I have seen this >garment made it's been constructed with a short puffed sleeve gathered >into a band above the elbow. > >But this isn't what I see in the portrait. > >http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/h/holbein/hans_y/1535h/02henry8.jpg > >There's something else going on with the sleeve, I can see part of it >hanging behind his arm. I just can't make out what the sleeve is supposed >to be shaped like. > >More examples here: > >http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/h/holbein/hans_y/1535h/06henry8.jpg > >http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/h/holbein/hans_y/2drawing/1543/6henry8.jpg > > > >Does anyone know what this sleeve is shaped like, how it is constructed, >or can you point me to other images where the garment is more clearly depicted? I have made this coat, and I think, as you say, the top half is a very, very large puff sleeve. I found cartridge pleats, with wadding/batting inside made them stand out. Then the bottom is a tube, attached to the back half of the puff only. The front of the tube is where the seam comes, and is split down for 4-6 inches. There is a band round the front of the puff, and the top of the "tube" is finished and decorated on the inside, so when it falls open in those small petals they look fancy. Anyway, that is how I interpreted it. Hope that helps. There are portraits of Edward Vl in a much simplifies sleeve that might give you an idea, but I cannot find the image anywhere in a search. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 13:12:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9DHCM4p014748 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:12:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DHBh3x022347 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:11:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DHBbG2071684; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:11:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DHBYG2071625 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:11:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from sdn-ap-009masprip0055.dialsprint.net ([63.186.144.55]) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CHmez-0007MX-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:11:33 -0400 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:12:24 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII and Tudor sleeves From: ruthanne baumgartner To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <416D30D7.3080203@reddawn.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO on 10/13/04 9:42 AM, Dawn at dawn@reddawn.net wrote: > All, > > I have the urge to make the outer 'coat' layer from Henry VIII's famous > portrait by Holbein, and I spent some time last night looking up > pictures and comparing them to the pattern I have. Every time I have > seen this garment made it's been constructed with a short puffed sleeve > gathered into a band above the elbow. > > But this isn't what I see in the portrait. > > > > Does anyone know what this sleeve is shaped like, how it is constructed, > or can you point me to other images where the garment is more clearly > depicted? > Let me first plead complete ignorance, not having attempted this coat and having seen only patterns that treat the sleeve as a short puff. But then let me say that to my unschooled eyes the sleeves in the painting look like full-length sleeves tapered from a large puffed shoulder to a narrower wrist and with two openings: one normal at the wrist and one a T-slit opening like those you see on Master's academic gowns, permitting the wearer to bring his arm through at the elbow. (Master's gowns don't have two sleeve openings, though--the traditional Master's gown has only the mid-sleeve slit, the end of the sleeve being sewn closed, making it a great place to keep sunglasses, wallet, and car keys!) If that's how these sleeves are made, then Henry has taken the elbow option. I'd suspect that part of the fullness in the "puff" is the result of the gathered fabric's being lined with the full-bodied fur you see peeking out at the sleeve opening. The falling scallops might be an ornamental treatment that pretties up the slit when the wearer is using the wrist opening instead. Of course, what I think I see may be influenced by the fact that I'm more familiar with academic regalia than with royal robes....If I'm way off, just ignore me! --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 13:19:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9DHJlhB014771 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:19:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DHJF3x023249 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:19:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DHJ4G2077704; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:19:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.70]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DHJ0G2077640 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:19:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from purplkat@optonline.net) Received: from optonline.net (mstr4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.15]) by mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTP id <0I5J00EX89F0AR@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:18:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [167.206.5.47] (Forwarded-For: [167.206.224.2]) by mstr4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mshttpd); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:18:36 -0400 Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:18:36 -0400 From: purplkat@optonline.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII and Tudor sleeves To: Historical Costume Message-id: <8efb628f12e6.8f12e68efb62@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: iPlanet Messenger Express 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-language: en Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My question regards the man in the background... The 'over-coat' he is wearing - is that a man's outfit or can ladies wear it?? Kat ----- Original Message ----- From: Janet Renzetti > http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/h/holbein/hans_y/2drawing/1543/6henry8.jpg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 13:42:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9DHgQuB014955 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:42:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DHff3x025981 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:41:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DHfcG2095648; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:41:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DHfZG2095573 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:41:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kat@redtrollforge.com) Received: from katscomputer (ip28.129.du.eli.iinet.com [67.136.129.28]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9C2C6B02D for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:41:31 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@redtrollforge.com To: Historical Costume Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:41:28 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII and Tudor sleeves Message-ID: <416D0658.23318.1A5561F@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <416D30D7.3080203@reddawn.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I have the urge to make the outer 'coat' layer from Henry VIII's > famous portrait by Holbein, and I spent some time last night looking > up pictures and comparing them to the pattern I have. Every time I > have seen this garment made it's been constructed with a short puffed > sleeve gathered into a band above the elbow. > > But this isn't what I see in the portrait. > > http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/h/holbein/hans_y/1535h/02henry8.jpg > > There's something else going on with the sleeve, I can see part of it > hanging behind his arm. I just can't make out what the sleeve is > supposed to be shaped like. There is, as you can tell, more to the sleeve than just a puffed sleeve. What you are seeing is a hanging sleeve. From the size of his, I'd say that his is a functional one, rather than the vestigal ones that are more like tippets. If you have a copy of Janet Arnold's Patterns of Fashion 1560-1620, figure 25 has a pattern for that kind of sleeve. However, it's not shown slashed so that you can see how the arm can be out. There is a painting (figure 32) which lets you see the hanging sleeve a little better (although it's more of the figure 36 in cut, so it doesn't have the same upper puff.) Probably the best views I've seen of this are in a manuscript painting of Francois I and his court. You get to see back views of the sleeves so that they are much easier to figure out. But I haven't been able to find an online picture of this, nor can I find the book where I first found the painting. (I have a slide of it, but that doesn't help anyone. And of course although I wrote down all the info about the painting itself on the slide, I didn't put down which book it came from.) I hope that this at least aimed you in the direction of finding what you want to know. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 13:54:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9DHsAGb015210 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:54:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DHrT3x027446 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:53:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DHrRG2005292; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:53:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DHrOG2005233 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:53:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B9E15D756 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:53:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041013103917.00b15a40@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:53:19 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII and Tudor sleeves In-Reply-To: <416D30D7.3080203@reddawn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:42 AM 10/13/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Does anyone know what this sleeve is shaped like, how it is constructed, >or can you point me to other images where the garment is more clearly depicted? Hi Dawn I have been looking at images myself trying to get the accurate portrayal of the sleeves, as they are the part I was stuck on myself. Unfortunately, most images of Henry himself, he is looking at the viewer, so side details of the sleeves are impossible to judge. There is an image of Henry sitting and playing a harp, with his fool Will Somers standing nearby that gives a slightly better image of the hanging sleeves. It took to looking at images from outside of England to find the answer. There is a contemporary image of a French king having repast (Francis??), and he has several men around him in different poses (and angles). Many of those men are wearing similar great coats (as I call them) as is the King himself. It is from that image that I finally figured out what was going on. I only wish I could find that exact image right now to show you, but I can't seem to find the right book I found it in. The great coat sleeves have a huge puff at the shoulders, and it is attached to a tube that hangs down. The tube is split several inches below the puff, allowing for the arm to go through at that point. This also allows the openings to hang down like two petals. The sleeves appear to be lined in fur, which is why the "puffs" are so big. Note that the sleeve fur does not have to match the collar fur, as the image of Henry with the fool shows two different colored furs. If I can find the image, I will scan it in and post a link for you. But that will have to be later tonight, when I have time (and provided I find it today). Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 13:57:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9DHvZ7q015288 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:57:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DHuw3x027779 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:56:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DHusG2008011; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:56:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DHuqG2007961 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:56:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 654A85D0ED for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:56:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041013105444.022c7008@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:56:46 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII and Tudor sleeves In-Reply-To: <8efb628f12e6.8f12e68efb62@optonline.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 01:18 PM 10/13/2004 -0400, you wrote: >My question regards the man in the background... > >The 'over-coat' he is wearing - is that a man's outfit or can ladies wear it?? > >Kat That is an image of Henry VII, and he is wearing garments of an earlier Tudor time than I have researched. However, when hasn't a woman taken men's garb and made it their own? I know, probably not a perfectly researched response... Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 14:00:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9DI0frQ015377 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:00:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DHxo3x028209 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:59:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DHxkG2010322; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:59:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DHxeG2010219 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:59:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF5D85CC6A for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:59:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041013105837.022c7008@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:59:09 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII and Tudor sleeves In-Reply-To: References: <416D30D7.3080203@reddawn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 01:12 PM 10/13/2004 -0400, you wrote: >Of course, what I think I see may be influenced by the fact that I'm more >familiar with academic regalia than with royal robes....If I'm way off, just >ignore me! > >--Ruth Anne Baumgartner Hey Ruth, I think you hit the nail squarely on the head. At least from what I have seen and researched so far. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 14:05:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9DI5WUb015474 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:05:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DI4o3x028830 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:04:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DI4kG2014471; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:04:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail11.mdx.safepages.com (mail11.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DI4iG2014415 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:04:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 0C138A06E6; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 18:04:47 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust28.tnt1.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.148.28]) by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id DC332A0846 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 18:04:45 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <063301c4b14f$22d98530$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20041013013522.99011.qmail@web13522.mail.yahoo.com><5.1.0.14.2.20041013080241.01457670@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> <08e901c4b128$8bbf1320$6d00a8c0@ches> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:04:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 1940s pants patterns? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just bought 3 lengths of worsted wool for some 1940s pants. (One of the lengths is 'infected wool'--great term, Robin. For those of you who don't know, Robin Netherton is a local hero for marking the fiber contents at one of our best fabric stores CORRECTLY.) I'm going to be drafting the pants with the help of an early 1940s pattern drafting manual, and finishing it using techniques from a 1942 sewing manual. But honestly, I'm just using these to get the look I want and to be sure I'm using the best construction techniques; this isn't really meant to be authentic. It's just a reaction to my recent frustration at trying to buy a pair of pants I actually LIKE, that actually FIT. (The closest I could find in stores or websites cost $299, and the waist band was poorly designed! Gorgeous otherwise, though...) Hence the infected wool in the perfect color, and hence this question: Has anyone found any patterns, modern, retro modern, or vintage, that use good solid construction techniques, for those nifty 1940s wide straight-legged trousers? I'm getting the pattern pieces for the actual legs of the pants by drafting, but there's no provision in the draft for waistband, pockets, etc, and I don't have too much experience with making pants. It'd be helpful to have something to look at for these details; something vaguely 1940s in flavor. I know of a couple modern retro patterns--the Rosie the Riveter and the Hollywood pants patterns from Folkwear--but I can't really see the details from those, and I've never worked with their patterns before. (GBACG has no reviews for them, either!) Also, they're $20 and I'd rather spend $0.99 at JoAnns next sale! =} I've also looked at some vintage 40s and 70s sewing patterns on websites, but the level of detail of the photos is just too poor to see any of the details I care about. Any suggestions? -E has WAY too many projects in the works right now. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 14:20:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9DIKpO6015775 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:20:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DIF53x000271 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:15:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DIExG2022593; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:14:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DIEtG2022370 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:14:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (kf-ijss-cb01-0309.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.81.54]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92042319C5B for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 20:14:39 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <416D708B.1070206@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 20:14:35 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Time line problem X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I was just working on my website when I realised that I was having some problems. Everywhere you see terms like Civil war, edwardian, victorian etc. But I realised that I'm not sure when exactly is which period. Is there a timeline somewere on the net where I can find this? Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 14:44:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9DIitR3016244 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:44:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DIi93x003302 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:44:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DIhgjM015344; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:43:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from silver.wightman.ca (silver.wightman.ca [216.249.0.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DIgajM014504 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:42:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lgsteph@wightman.ca) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by silver.wightman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5B3E5B4C2 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:22:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from silver.wightman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (silver.wightman.ca [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05197-02 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:22:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d7k7b6 (unknown [142.46.141.52]) by silver.wightman.ca (Postfix) with SMTP id D8C585B4BC for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:22:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001701c4b155$054a2be0$6400a8c0@wightman.ca> From: "Five Rivers" To: References: <200410131801.i9DI1YG3011892@net.indra.com> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:45:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at wightman.ca X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Period Bird Embroidery X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There are lots of images of birds for the 18th century to be found on bed hangings. There are a goodly number of images of these in Art of Embroidery by Schuette and someoneorother. Have the book in my personal collection. It's a rare book, but I believe can be had through ILO. There are also several images in a wee Shire Book on beds or bed hangings; can't quite remember the name. Hope that helps. Regards Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage fine hand-sewn embroidered garments, historical sewing patterns & embroidery supplies (519) 799-5577, http://www.5rivers.org email: info@5rivers.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 14:49:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9DInHs2016339 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:49:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DIlU3x003631 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:47:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DIkxjM017661; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:47:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DIkDjM016990 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:46:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id A947A5E2EA for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:25:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041013111845.022b9330@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:25:49 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII and Tudor sleeves In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20041013103917.00b15a40@64.87.54.245> References: <416D30D7.3080203@reddawn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-DCC-CollegeOfNewCaledonia-Metrics: net.indra.com 1189; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:53 AM 10/13/2004 -0700, you wrote: >It took to looking at images from outside of England to find the answer. >There is a contemporary image of a French king having repast (Francis??), >and he has several men around him in different poses (and angles). Many of >those men are wearing similar great coats (as I call them) as is the King >himself. It is from that image that I finally figured out what was going >on. I only wish I could find that exact image right now to show you, but I >can't seem to find the right book I found it in. Well, I found an image, but not the color one I was thinking of. It is King Francis I, not having repast, but sitting behind a table while a book is being read to him. There is a monkey on the table, and you get a three views of the "great coats" (as I call them), the book describes it further. #1259 Last third XVIc. French. (Chantilly, Conde Mus., ms. fr. 1672 History by Diodorus of Sicily, translated by Macault. (snipped) "a gown similar to that worn by Henry VIII both with and without dependent sleeve; in the latter case, the puffed upper sleeve is horizontally cut and caught with aiglettes. As on the costume of Henry VIII, tiny puffs are drawn through apertures in the embroidery." The book is _The Book of Costume_ by Millia Davenport. I have the one-volume edition (ISBN 0517037165), which I found on eBay. I don't have the time to scan the image in today, but perhaps you can find it online. Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 14:50:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9DIo4x5016355 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:50:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DInH3x003835 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:49:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DInFjM019393; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:49:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DIn4jM019145 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:49:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:48:55 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:48:45 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Henry VIII and Tudor sleeves X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Probably the best views I've seen of this are in a manuscript painting of Francois I and his court. Kat <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< could this be the one you are thinking of: http://www.marileecody.com/francis.jpg Doesn't give a variety of views, but there is the back view of the boys in front. I've attempted this sleeve once. Just once :), with mixed results. Not a good pic, but you can see a bit of the hanging sleeve here: http://jmsphoto.net/KCRF2002/0000194_004.JPG here is a bit better pic: http://jmsphoto.net/KCRF2002/0009685_019.JPG It is pretty much, as has been mentioned here, a long tube added to a puffed sleeve :). I was deliberately avoiding the big over-puffed out sleeves I had seen on to many renfair costumes, especially on this greatcoat which was made out of a lighter fabric for warmer days. These are probably the 'flatest' sleeves of all DH's greatcoats. Usually I cut them out oversized and interlined with a stiff fabric to help hold the shape out. The actually lining was a closer fit to the actual measurements of the upper arm (loose enough so as not to drag on the doublet sleeve). I eliminated the excess under the arm by using a right-angle trick I found in one of Janet Arnold's Pattern of Fashion books that was used for keeping excess fabric out of the way on the full 'ppoufy' upper hosen. Don't have the book handy but if you are interested I will double check the page/illo number. Hanging tube was attached to the back half of the puffed part of the sleeve. The tube was longer than a lower sleeve would have been, but large enough to be worn if needed. Hope this helps, Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 15:09:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9DJ90S9016720 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:09:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DJ7B3x006164 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:07:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DJ78jM033553; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:07:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DJ74jM033436 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:07:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16213 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:15:40 -0500 Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:15:39 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1940s pants patterns? In-Reply-To: <063301c4b14f$22d98530$0400a8c0@compaqub> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wed, 13 Oct 2004, E House wrote: > I just bought 3 lengths of worsted wool for some 1940s pants. (One of > the lengths is 'infected wool'--great term, Robin. For those of you > who don't know, Robin Netherton is a local hero for marking the fiber > contents at one of our best fabric stores CORRECTLY.) A losing battle, but I fight the good fight ;-) There's just so much that comes in that I don't see in time... I keep bleach in the back room for tests, and a marking pen in my pocket for scribbling "with lycra" on the tags :-P What's really frustrating is seeing MANUFACTURER tags on the bolts that don't indicate lycra content. > I'm getting the pattern pieces for the actual legs of the pants by > drafting, but there's no provision in the draft for waistband, > pockets, etc, and I don't have too much experience with making pants. > It'd be helpful to have something to look at for these details; > something vaguely 1940s in flavor. I know of a couple modern retro > patterns--the Rosie the Riveter and the Hollywood pants patterns from > Folkwear--but I can't really see the details from those, and I've > never worked with their patterns before. (GBACG has no reviews for > them, either!) Also, they're $20 and I'd rather spend $0.99 at JoAnns > next sale! =} I've also looked at some vintage 40s and 70s sewing > patterns on websites, but the level of detail of the photos is just > too poor to see any of the details I care about. When I was searching for a vintage c. 1962 style dress, I had a great deal of luck on eBay. Many of the sellers give you good photos of both front and back of the envelopes, and size measurements. Certain patterns come up over and over, so it's worth looking at the pictures even for sizes that aren't yours and making notes on the numbers of the patterns you like, so you'll catch them when they do appear in your size. Sizes changed massively over time -- a 14 today is definitely not a 14 in a previous decade. In fact, I found that standard size guidelines changed over the time window I was searching. I ended up making a cheat-sheet of the size measurements for bust/waist/hips/etc. by year, so that I'd be sure to buy the right size. If you can't get modern pants to fit well, you might see if there's a period in which the "model" shape and measurements match your own more closely, and then look for patterns from that particular set of years. Modern "retro" patterns will be sized to modern sizes, and won't help you much with actual fit if you don't normally fit modern sizes without a lot of alteration. Someday when I get a box of round tuits to spare, I intend to nail down exactly when in the 1930-1960 range my bust shape was in fashion, and buy some vintage jacket and dress patterns that will thus fit my figure with less trouble. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 15:10:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9DJAh5G016771 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:10:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DJ9p3x006454 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:09:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DJ9ojM035495; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:09:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DJ9ljM035314 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:09:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32faa.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.170]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id CF4295EE0A4 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:09:32 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001f01c4b158$34735ab0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200410131801.i9DI1YG3011892@net.indra.com> <001701c4b155$054a2be0$6400a8c0@wightman.ca> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Period Bird Embroidery Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:09:46 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi again, I also found one, in a book about indian embroidery. The pattern is with parrots. This is not counted stitch or crossstiching but surface embroidery. But those birds you are talking about here, are they not cross stitched birds? The book is called broderies indiennes, and the parrot pattern is based of an old 18th century pattern. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Five Rivers" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 8:45 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: Period Bird Embroidery > There are lots of images of birds for the 18th century to be found on > bed hangings. There are a goodly number of images of these in Art of > Embroidery by Schuette and someoneorother. Have the book in my personal > collection. It's a rare book, but I believe can be had through ILO. There > are also several images in a wee Shire Book on beds or bed hangings; can't > quite remember the name. > > Hope that helps. > > Regards > Lorina > Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage > fine hand-sewn embroidered garments, historical sewing patterns & embroidery > supplies > (519) 799-5577, http://www.5rivers.org email: info@5rivers.org > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 15:13:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9DJD5IZ016862 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:13:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DJBP3x006587 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:11:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DJBOjM036715; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:11:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DJAFjM035835 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:10:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FCB934D7F for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:10:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041013120205.022c7008@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:10:12 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Henry VIII and Tudor sleeves In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 01:48 PM 10/13/2004 -0500, you wrote: >could this be the one you are thinking of: >http://www.marileecody.com/francis.jpg >Doesn't give a variety of views, but there is the back view of the boys >in front. > >I've attempted this sleeve once. Just once :), with mixed results. >Not a good pic, but you can see a bit of the hanging sleeve here: >http://jmsphoto.net/KCRF2002/0000194_004.JPG >here is a bit better pic: >http://jmsphoto.net/KCRF2002/0009685_019.JPG Hi Catherine, That's the image! I just found my copy of the image in color in _Fashion, the Mirror of History_ by Michael and Ariane Betterberry (ISBN 0517388812). I like your Henry outfit! Great job on such a problematic sleeve, especially for dealing with hot faires. I applaud the men who can wea that coat all day long, and not die of the heat. My friend Michael stuffs his sleeves with netting to give it more poof with less weight. I will be inspecting his garments tonight to see how the inner construction goes. However, I think he does use the Simplicity pattern with tweaks. I will find out more tonight. And a question for you. How did you do the pleats on the base (skirt)? I wasn't too happy with the amount of work I put in for my husband's pleats (done as sewn down organ pleats, held by tapes underneath), and wonder which other methods would work better. Thanks, Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 15:21:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9DJL0j9017006 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:21:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DJJ63x007458 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:19:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DJJ4jM042818; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:19:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m27.mx.aol.com (imo-m27.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DJJ1jM042677 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:19:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.192.30d5651e (4394) for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:18:52 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <192.30d5651e.2e9ed99b@aol.com> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:18:51 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1940s pants patterns? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5031 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 10/13/2004 3:08:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, robin@shell.nightowl.net writes: What's really frustrating is seeing MANUFACTURER tags on the bolts that don't indicate lycra content. Just curious as to how you know for sure it has Lycra spandex in it if the manufacturer doesn't say so--granted, you can tell it is stretchy. But, yes, I used to work at a fabric store where things weren't always labelled properly, if at all. I once had to return some "silk" that was really, I suspect, rayon. It didn't dissolve in bleach and was probably cellulose. For those who don't know, U.S. federal law requires that fabrics for apparel be labelled with the fiber content, in order by weight, with the generic names of the fibers (hence, "Lycra" alone isn't even really sufficient--as that is the trade name for a form of spandex), and a care code. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 15:58:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9DJwQm7017765 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:58:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DJvM3x011562 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:57:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DJvHjM072237; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:57:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DJvDjM072160 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:57:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA16754 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:05:51 -0500 Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:05:49 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1940s pants patterns? In-Reply-To: <192.30d5651e.2e9ed99b@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: I wrote: > What's really frustrating is seeing MANUFACTURER tags on the > bolts that don't indicate lycra content. Ann asked: > Just curious as to how you know for sure it has Lycra spandex in it if the > manufacturer doesn't say so--granted, you can tell it is stretchy. The stretchiness is the big clue. If I want confirmation, I either pull the fibers apart till I find a lycra strand, or I toss a swatch in bleach and look for the rubber residue after a few hours. (The wool component disappears without a trace.) Wool has a little stretch of its own, of course, and I was fooled once by a piece that was manufacturer-tagged as 100% wool. After I washed it, the stretch was unmistakeable, and I could find the lycra fibers. Fortunately my manager took it back. Nearly all the wool (except coating) that's coming in from the designer-level fabric makers this year has lycra. Sigh. > But, yes, I used to work at a fabric store where things weren't always > labelled properly, if at all. I once had to return some "silk" that > was really, I suspect, rayon. It didn't dissolve in bleach and was > probably cellulose. We had a load of "silk" a couple years ago that came from a silk manufacturer that, I think, just used its standard tags. It burned as plastic, but no one thought to test it for months, and meanwhile we'd been selling it. At least a dozen bolts with different stripes and woven patterns. I wish it had been silk! > For those who don't know, U.S. federal law requires that fabrics for > apparel be labelled with the fiber content, in order by weight, with > the generic names of the fibers (hence, "Lycra" alone isn't even > really sufficient--as that is the trade name for a form of spandex), > and a care code. HA ha ha ha ha. We get a lot of our fabrics in designer-sample swatches of a few yards, or unlabeled bolts, bulk-packed, often straight from Europe or from god-knows-what warehouse in NYC. Or else from somewhere in Asia with foreign-language tags. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 16:09:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9DK90WK017970 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:09:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DK6i3x012713 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:06:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DK6ijM079748; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:06:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m25.mx.aol.com (imo-m25.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DK6fjM079637 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:06:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.59.189242ef (4446) for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:06:32 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <59.189242ef.2e9ee4c8@aol.com> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:06:32 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1940s pants patterns? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5031 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 10/13/2004 3:59:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, robin@shell.nightowl.net writes: We get a lot of our fabrics in designer-sample swatches of a few yards, or unlabeled bolts, bulk-packed, often straight from Europe or from god-knows-what warehouse in NYC. Or else from somewhere in Asia with foreign-language tags. Yup. And of course, around here, we have the independent fabric stores owned by a variety of ethnic groups who either don't know, or don't care, about the regs. If I go into one of these, I'm really on my toes, and I seldom buy something unless I have a pretty good idea of what it is (or it doesn't matter for a particular project). Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 16:29:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9DKTSCm018410 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:29:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DKS93x015293 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:28:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DKS7jM096963; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:28:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav22.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.79]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DKQBjM095045 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:26:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:26:03 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by bay9-dav22.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 20:25:21 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200410092022.i99KM2E1062292@net.indra.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20041010155712.02783148@64.87.54.245> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen weight and outer garments Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:25:41 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Oct 2004 20:26:03.0781 (UTC) FILETIME=[DC84AB50:01C4B162] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I would suggest the heavier 7.+ weight linen for an outer garment. I use > the 5.3 oz for shirts and doublet linings. I use the 7+oz for interlinings > of my husband's two noble doublets (with outer coverings in velvet). I do > both major Tudor eras. Depends what you want the outer garment to be. My T-tunic made of 7oz is way too heavy. I prefer 5.3oz. For summer wear, I even go with 3.5 oz. Much, much more comfortable, and it flows nicely too. But this is for T-tunics. Something more structured will need linen heavier than 3.5 oz, unless it's for a shirt. Regular linen, I'd go with 7oz, but if you're lucky enough to find linen that isn't quite so loosely woven as what we're used to seeing (I have some that is medium weight, so it's probably 5.3oz, but it behaves like cotton because it isn't woven as loosely) you could do with lighter. > I don't know anything about Normans. Wouldn't wool be more appropriate than linen? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 17:12:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9DLCcFj019381 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:12:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DLBr3x020785 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:11:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DLBijM032339; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:11:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DLBfjM032193 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:11:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (c-24-21-147-231.client.comcast.net [24.21.147.231]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i9DLBXP22462 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:11:33 -0400 Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:08:59 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: Althea Turner To: Costume Historical Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19C39CCA-1D5C-11D9-8FB1-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] help in dating a garment - early medieval X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings all, I am working on a paper for school and need help in dating a garment. It has been attributed to circa 680 France. The cut of the garment suggests, to me, a much later date because of the complexity. Am I off my rocker? :D I put an image at http://www.alfalfapress.com/MERO/Robe_TresorsDeChelleslorez.jpg I haven't been able to find anything nearly as complicated in cut for several hundred years. Am I missing something? I'm happy to be wrong but I'd rather be right because it makes the paper more interesting. :D Thanks for any help! Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com I think, therefore I'm dangerous. I'll be Post-Feminist in a Post-Patriarchy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 17:18:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9DLImdj019501 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:18:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DLIB3x021549 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:18:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DLI9jM037566; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:18:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav27.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.84]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DLI7jM037457 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:18:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:18:01 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by bay9-dav27.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:17:37 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <59.189242ef.2e9ee4c8@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1940s pants patterns? Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:47:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Oct 2004 21:18:01.0463 (UTC) FILETIME=[1ECD3070:01C4B16A] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Yup. And of course, around here, we have the independent fabric stores owned > by a variety of ethnic groups who either don't know, or don't care, about the > regs. If I go into one of these, I'm really on my toes, and I seldom buy > something unless I have a pretty good idea of what it is (or it doesn't matter for > a particular project). That's why I'm having so much trouble buying in fabric stores. I keep hearing about Montreal that there's a nice fabric district, but every time I show up there, all I can see is row upon row of unlabelled bolts, and every time I touch a bolt of "wool" or "linen" I go "but is it really?", so I always come out empty handed. Even at Pennsic I didn't dare buy fabric at some merchants' places, because I didn't know if they were reliable or not. *sigh* _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 17:40:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9DLeseO019888 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:40:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DLe43x024063 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:40:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DLe3jM054600; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:40:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DLe0jM054444 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:40:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:39:53 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:39:42 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Tudor Pleats X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And a question for you. How did you do the pleats on the base (skirt)? I wasn't too happy with the amount of work I put in for my husband's pleats (done as sewn down organ pleats, held by tapes underneath), and wonder which other methods would work better. Thanks, Kimiko Small >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Glad you liked the coat :). He's survived warmer days in a fur collar so for his last year as King I really wanted him to have something cooler. And I box pleated his bases, setting them w/ a steam iron. They have to get re-pressed periodically but all the fabrics we used held the pleats pretty well, it didn't seem to matter if they were lined or not. Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 17:42:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9DLg70w019911 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:42:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DLfR3x024225 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:41:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DLfQjM055645; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:41:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DLfIjN055564 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:41:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i9DLcKTA015894 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:38:20 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:38:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <416DA0FC.1070300@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:41:16 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] help in dating a garment - early medieval References: <19C39CCA-1D5C-11D9-8FB1-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> In-Reply-To: <19C39CCA-1D5C-11D9-8FB1-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Althea Turner wrote: > It has been attributed to circa 680 France. The cut of the garment > suggests, to me, a much later date because of the complexity. Am I off > my rocker? :D > > I put an image at > http://www.alfalfapress.com/MERO/Robe_TresorsDeChelleslorez.jpg Wow. Do I read that diagram to show a center front opening, with a standing-up-around-the-back collar down to mid-chest? Maybe like a kimono collar? I like all the godets, but the collar arrangement is very odd. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 18:18:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9DMIx9i020509 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 18:18:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DMIJ3x027964 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:18:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DMIGjM083240; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:18:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav18.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.122]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DMI8jM083076 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:18:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:18:02 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by bay9-dav18.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 22:17:26 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <19C39CCA-1D5C-11D9-8FB1-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] help in dating a garment - early medieval Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 18:17:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Oct 2004 22:18:02.0718 (UTC) FILETIME=[815117E0:01C4B172] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I am working on a paper for school and need help in dating a garment. > It has been attributed to circa 680 France. The cut of the garment > suggests, to me, a much later date because of the complexity. Am I off > my rocker? :D > > I put an image at > http://www.alfalfapress.com/MERO/Robe_TresorsDeChelleslorez.jpg > I haven't been able to find anything nearly as complicated in cut for > several hundred years. Am I missing something? I'm happy to be wrong > but I'd rather be right because it makes the paper more interesting. :D Keep in mind I'm not an expert while reading my answer. This is just speculation based on the little knowledge I have. I don't think the fact that construction is complex means that it's a later garment. This seems to be all rectangles and triangles, and that's consistent with early garments, no matter how complex they are. Complexity in construction didn't evolve on a straight line from simple to complex. Older garmets, if anything, seem to have even more gores than later ones. I'm starting to think that our basic T-tunic wasn't as ubiquitous as we often think it was... This one doesn't look like anything I've seen so far, but we have enough examples of 12th C onward to make me think it's at least earlier than 12th century. I wouldn't be surprised if the date you have is right. We know so little about the clothing of the period, and what we've found is in fragments and changes wildly from region to region. Every time we find a new piece, it seems like something entirely new. But without further info (where was it found, what was it found with, what's the story) it's hard to make a guess! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 18:19:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9DMJr03020514 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 18:19:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DMEH3x027537 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:14:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DME4jM080196; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:14:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from wo-owa2003.wideorbit.com (owa.wideorbit.com [206.184.11.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DME3jM079867 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:14:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from MUnruh-Bays@wideorbit.com) Received: from wo-exch2003.wideorbit.com ([192.168.3.20]) by wo-owa2003.wideorbit.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:13:43 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6944.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C4B171.E7026844" Subject: RE: [h-cost] cotehardies and gothic dress yardages Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:13:43 -0700 Message-ID: <175C4793AFE4AB4596D4C17CCC98FD96854DBE@wo-exch2003.wideorbit.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <175C4793AFE4AB4596D4C17CCC98FD96854DBE@wo-exch2003.wideorbit.com> Thread-Topic: [h-cost] cotehardies and gothic dress yardages Thread-Index: AcSxcea/FDv6DC0jQpWfGZraXkeBgA== From: "Melanie Unruh-Bays" To: "Historical Costume" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Oct 2004 22:13:43.0917 (UTC) FILETIME=[E70F31D0:01C4B171] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C4B171.E7026844 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If you're willing to piece those outer corners, I find that I can do a kirtle on somewhat less than "shoulder-to-floor times four" by placing the bodice pieces side-by-side and reversing the direction of the pattern pieces. In other words, the pattern was laid out with the bodices together in the center and the skirts on the outer cut edges of the yardage. (Clear as mud??)=20 I had purchased eight yards of linen for the kirtle and decided to piece in the corner bits. I used just over half of it - I have enough left for a jaquette for my husband. This included sleeves and gores for me - a largish lady - but not lining, and wouldn't work if the fabric has an obvious direction or nap. Piecing's period, and it saved me $$$.=20 Melanie/Eirene > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com=20 > [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Teddy > Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 4:40 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: RE: [h-cost] cotehardies and gothic dress yardages >=20 >=20 > > > My "rule of thumb" for such things is hem to shoulder (plus seams > and=20 > > > hem allowance) multiplied by four. >=20 > > Shouldn't you add enough for sleeves as well? >=20 > I usually get the sleeves and extra skirt gores from the fabric to the > side of the bodice -part. >=20 > Teddy > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >=20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C4B171.E7026844 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ------_=_NextPart_001_01C4B171.E7026844-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 19:01:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9DN1fCQ020797 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:01:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DN183x002336 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:01:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DN13jM012354; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:01:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DN10jM012243 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:01:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (c-24-21-147-231.client.comcast.net [24.21.147.231]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i9DN0te22979 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:00:55 -0400 Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:58:18 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] help in dating a garment - early medieval Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <416DA0FC.1070300@thibault.org> Message-Id: <5FC2A8D4-1D6B-11D9-8FB1-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings, There is no center front seam, but the front neck piece is sewn in place like a gusset. The collar does stand up and fold over like a cowl. Althea On Wednesday, October 13, 2004, at 02:41 PM, Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Althea Turner wrote: >> It has been attributed to circa 680 France. The cut of the garment >> suggests, to me, a much later date because of the complexity. Am I >> off my rocker? :D >> I put an image at >> http://www.alfalfapress.com/MERO/Robe_TresorsDeChelleslorez.jpg > > Wow. > > Do I read that diagram to show a center front opening, with a > standing-up-around-the-back collar down to mid-chest? Maybe like a > kimono collar? > > I like all the godets, but the collar arrangement is very odd. > > -- > Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com I think, therefore I'm dangerous. I'll be Post-Feminist in a Post-Patriarchy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 19:07:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9DN7ZgX020910 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:07:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DN5x3x002938 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:06:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DN5xjM015727; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:05:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DN5ujM015615 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:05:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (c-24-21-147-231.client.comcast.net [24.21.147.231]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i9DN5pe27398 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:05:51 -0400 Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:03:15 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] help in dating a garment - early medieval Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <10535FB1-1D6C-11D9-8FB1-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO hello, Maybe "complex" isn't the word I should have used. :D I just have never seen a neck/collar like the one on this garment. I wish I could find my picture of the reconstructed garment. It resembles garments that look more like later monk's robes with a cowl. (Think Brother Cadfael.) Althea On Wednesday, October 13, 2004, at 03:17 PM, Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: >> I am working on a paper for school and need help in dating a garment. >> It has been attributed to circa 680 France. The cut of the garment >> suggests, to me, a much later date because of the complexity. Am I >> off >> my rocker? :D >> >> I put an image at >> http://www.alfalfapress.com/MERO/Robe_TresorsDeChelleslorez.jpg >> I haven't been able to find anything nearly as complicated in cut for >> several hundred years. Am I missing something? I'm happy to be wrong >> but I'd rather be right because it makes the paper more interesting. >> :D > > Keep in mind I'm not an expert while reading my answer. This is just > speculation based on the little knowledge I have. > > I don't think the fact that construction is complex means that it's a > later > garment. This seems to be all rectangles and triangles, and that's > consistent with early garments, no matter how complex they are. > Complexity > in construction didn't evolve on a straight line from simple to > complex. > Older garmets, if anything, seem to have even more gores than later > ones. > I'm starting to think that our basic T-tunic wasn't as ubiquitous as we > often think it was... > > This one doesn't look like anything I've seen so far, but we have > enough > examples of 12th C onward to make me think it's at least earlier than > 12th > century. > > I wouldn't be surprised if the date you have is right. We know so > little > about the clothing of the period, and what we've found is in fragments > and > changes wildly from region to region. Every time we find a new piece, > it > seems like something entirely new. > > But without further info (where was it found, what was it found with, > what's > the story) it's hard to make a guess! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com I think, therefore I'm dangerous. I'll be Post-Feminist in a Post-Patriarchy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 19:29:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9DNT13U021259 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:29:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DNSI3x004885 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:28:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DNS8jM029148; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:28:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from deluge.cc.mcgill.ca (deluge.CC.McGill.CA [132.206.27.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DNS4jM029081 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:28:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanna.hobbins@mail.mcgill.ca) Received: from mailscan4.cc.mcgill.ca (mailscan4.CC.McGill.CA [132.216.77.251]) by deluge.cc.mcgill.ca (8.12.11/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i9DNS1BB016027 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:28:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LIBRARY2162 (GIS131.Library.McGill.CA [132.216.28.131]) by mailscan4.cc.mcgill.ca (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i9DNNiaf026811 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:23:44 -0400 From: "Joanna Hobbins" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] help in dating a garment - early medieval Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:27:37 -0400 Message-ID: <0EC215885A2D74459D732218EA1CF236018295C7@EXCHANGEVS3.campus.mcgill.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <0EC215885A2D74459D732218EA1CF236017B22D4@EXCHANGEVS3.campus.mcgill.ca> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What book/journal did the image come from? The only word I can make out at the top is manteau (coat). I always thought that this was a shirt supposedly owned by Thomas Becket which would put it around 1160. I think Marc Carlson has it on his site as the Chelles Shirt. Cheers, Joanna -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Audrey Bergeron-Morin Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 6:17 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] help in dating a garment - early medieval > I am working on a paper for school and need help in dating a garment. > It has been attributed to circa 680 France. The cut of the garment > suggests, to me, a much later date because of the complexity. Am I > off my rocker? :D > > I put an image at > http://www.alfalfapress.com/MERO/Robe_TresorsDeChelleslorez.jpg > I haven't been able to find anything nearly as complicated in cut for > several hundred years. Am I missing something? I'm happy to be wrong > but I'd rather be right because it makes the paper more interesting. > :D _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 19:41:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9DNfemB021452 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:41:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DNf43x006210 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:41:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DNf0jM036957; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:41:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from indirectobject.com (066-241-084-045.bus.ashlandfiber.net [66.241.84.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DNevjM036897 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:40:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rreed@indirectobject.com) Message-Id: <200410132340.i9DNevjM036897@net.indra.com> Received: from synergy ([192.168.1.1]) by indirectobject.com (WWW [192.168.1.200]) (MDaemon.PRO.v6.8.5.R) with ESMTP id 63-md50000000011.tmp for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:40:21 -0700 From: To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:40:27 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 Thread-Index: AcSxeWzvHU8YEjEUQOSOBWkHDDksNAABGXAg In-Reply-To: <10535FB1-1D6C-11D9-8FB1-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Processed: WWW, Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:40:21 -0700 (not processed: message from valid local sender) X-MDRemoteIP: 192.168.1.1 X-Return-Path: rreed@indirectobject.com X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Victorian corset patterns X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi there, I would like to find out if anyone has had experience with the Mantua-Maker's 1870-1895 corset pattern? Are there any better patterns out there for this era? Thanks, Becky _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 19:50:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9DNocEt021621 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:50:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DNnx3x006953 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:49:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DNnwjM041969; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:49:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grunt9.ihug.co.nz (grunt9.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.51]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DNnpjM041829 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:49:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from p7-max8.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.204.71] by grunt9.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CHsQG-0003sA-00; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:20:45 +1300 Message-ID: <007d01c4b17b$3fb448d0$47ccadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <416D30D7.3080203@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII and Tudor sleeves Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:13:37 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/h/holbein/hans_y/1535h/02henry8.jpg > > There's something else going on with the sleeve, I can see part of it > hanging behind his arm. I just can't make out what the sleeve is > supposed to be shaped like. It's almost certainly a regional variation of what's called the Schaube in the Germanic lands. You may have some luck looking for images using that term. I think a similar over garment was worn in Italy in the 15thC and a similar style can be seen in early 16thC tapestries as well. And in the Germanic areas, a schaube is indeed also a woman's garment:) I made one of a different style: http://costumes.glittersweet.com/sca/schaube.htm And I see I need to edit my site a little... Koehler has some patterns for schaubes (given more specific title according to the actual use of the garment.) I think there are some online too.... http://www.pipcom.com/~tempus/landsknecht/patterns.html unfortunately not the sleeve pattern. The quarter circle is the half back the funny shaped one the half right indicating revers and the little piece is the back of the collar. I'll just check my pages in Koehler... Nope.. sleeves are not there in my sections... But you are right, he has put he sleeve through a slash of a hanging sleeve. In fact it looks like thre are three openings, maybe two sets of sleeve?... the top one is puffed though, you can see bu the direction of the applied decoration, they angle in to the edge of the slash. I think there may well be a regular length puffed sleeve that he has his arm going through, then a pendant narrow purely decorative sleeve behind.... Unless someone can give a better explanation of the second lot of trim and fur lining showing through at the left side of his surcoat? Double layer gowns really do not show up in the artwork I've looked at. It would be interesting to see if they have elsewhere;) michaela de bruce http://glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 19:51:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9DNpk8p021644 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:51:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DNpF3x007072 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:51:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DNp9jM042622; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:51:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (chori.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9DNoIjM042142 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:50:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ldownward@chori.org) X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Sophos http://raeinternet.com/mpp Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP-TLS id 1538837 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:50:12 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.0.0.040405 Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:50:11 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian corset patterns From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200410132340.i9DNevjM036897@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've never used the Manuta-Maker's pattern. Having said that, I absolutely love Laughing Moon Mercantile's Victorian Corset pattern. I've made the fancier pattern because I have more to corset than the average person and it's more comfortable than my underwire bra. It went together easily (once I got over the shock of the many pattern pieces). The instructions are clear and the historic pages are really in-depth. And a ctue thing: every pattern you purchase from this company comes with its own smiling moon charm to sew onto your garment or not. An incredibly happy consumer; no other connection to the company. LynnD > From: > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:40:27 -0700 > To: 'Historical Costume' > Subject: [h-cost] Victorian corset patterns > > Hi there, > > I would like to find out if anyone has had experience with the > Mantua-Maker's 1870-1895 corset pattern? Are there any better patterns out > there for this era? > > Thanks, > Becky > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 20:12:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9E0Cvvh022022 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 20:12:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E0Bw3x009294 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 18:11:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E0BajM054117; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 18:11:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from copper.wightman.ca (copper.wightman.ca [216.249.0.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E0BVjM053998 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 18:11:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lgsteph@wightman.ca) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by copper.wightman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52F553F805 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 20:11:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d7k7b6 (unknown [142.46.141.52]) by copper.wightman.ca (Postfix) with SMTP id 5CB723F803 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 20:11:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001501c4b182$fae39460$6400a8c0@wightman.ca> From: "Five Rivers" To: References: <200410132120.i9DLJojN038905@net.indra.com> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 20:12:49 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Period Bird Embroidery X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Bjarne, > But those birds you are talking about here, are they not cross stitched > birds? (flips through books) Nope. All the embroideries I've looked at of bed hangings, etc., for the 18th century, are crewel, meaning freeform embroidery done in wool on a linen ground. Any of the garments I've found are silk thread in freeform embroidery. Not a cross-stitched bird or apple or leaf in sight. :-) > The book is called broderies indiennes, and the parrot pattern is based of > an old 18th century pattern. Ah yes, broderies indiennes. It is actually upon the Eastern embroideries (Indian, Chinese, Japanese) that much of the 18th century European embroidery designs were based. Everything Eastern was all the rage and considered quite exotic. That fascination with things Eastern seems to have come into and out of fashion for hundreds of years. Regards Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage fine hand-sewn embroidered garments, historical sewing patterns & embroidery supplies (519) 799-5577, http://www.5rivers.org email: info@5rivers.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 21:21:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9E1L0W3023020 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:21:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E1KK3x014763 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:20:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E1KAjM087020; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:20:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav3.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.107]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E1K7jM086942 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:20:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 18:20:02 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by BAY9-DAV3.phx.gbl with DAV; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 01:19:28 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <59BDB0FA-1D74-11D9-8FB1-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] help in dating a garment - early medieval Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:19:49 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Oct 2004 01:20:02.0413 (UTC) FILETIME=[EDF651D0:01C4B18B] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here's a slightly better translation. Also, I've added the accents in the French version and corrected some spelling mistakes. Maybe it can help someone who knows more than I do about the clothing in that period. > I La Grand robe > > Ce grand vętement a été découvert en 1983. La finesse du tissu de lin > confine ŕ la transparence. Le devant semble avoir été ouvert jusqu'en > bas. Il doit s'agir d'une robe de dessus, dont les deux pans devaient > ętre serrés ŕ la taille par une ceinture. Contrairement aux vętements > orientaux, pour la plupart tissés d'une pičce, il a été monté ŕ partir > d'un patron complet. > > This large clothing was discovered in 1983. The fineness of the linen > produces a great transparency. It seems the front was open to the > bottom. It must have been an overdress, whose two sides were probably > held at the waist with a belt. Contrary to Eastern (oriental) > clothing, that are usually woven of one single piece, it has been assembled > from a full pattern. > > Cette robe a été coupée dans une pičce de tissu de 6,80 m de long sur > 0,85 m de large. La partie principale de 3,38 m de long, forme ŕ la > fois le devant et le dos. Pliée au niveau des épaules, elle est fendue > du haut en bas sur la face antérieure, et jusqu'au milieu du dos. > L'ampleur du vętement est augmentée par des pičces triangulaires, qui en > haut écartent les [deau] (deux?) bords du tissu principal et en bas, sont posées > de chaque côté. Le col ŕ larges revers est formé de quatre pičces. Les > manches trčs amples au niveau de l'emmenchure (39 cm), sont plus serrées au > niveau du poignet (29 cm). > > This robe was cut in a piece of fabric 6,80 m long by 0,85 m > wide. The 3,38 m long main part, forms at the same time the front > and back. Folded on the shoulder, it is splint from top to bottom > on the anterior face, and down to the middle of the back. The width of > the garment is augmented by triangular gores, which, at the top, spread the > two edges of the main piece and, at the bottom, bottom, are fixed on each > side. The collar with a large turnback is made of four parts. > The sleeves, very full at the sleevehole (39 cm), are more narrow > at the wrist (29 cm). > > Des manuscrits des VIII et IX sičcles montrent de rares exemples de > vętements féminins d'un type voisin, ainsi l'Apocalypse de Valenciennes > (IX sičcle) et le Psautier d'Augsbourg (Planche de massacre des > Innocents) > > Manuscripts of the VIII and IX centuries show rare examples of > feminine clothing of a similar style, see l'Apocalypse of > Valenciennes (IX century) and the Psautier D'Augsbourg (Plane of massacre > of the innocent) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 21:38:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9E1cZKr023281 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:38:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E05L3x008683 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 18:05:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E05HjM050695; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 18:05:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E05GjM050608 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 18:05:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (c-24-21-147-231.client.comcast.net [24.21.147.231]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i9E05Ax13258 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 20:05:10 -0400 Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:02:34 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] help in dating a garment - early medieval Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <10535FB1-1D6C-11D9-8FB1-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> Message-Id: <59BDB0FA-1D74-11D9-8FB1-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is the description, in French, and in my VERY bad translation (via babelfish and an old dictionary), of the Robe. I La Grand robe Ce grand vetement a ete decouvert en 1983. La finesse du tissu de lin confine a la transparence. Le devant semble avoir ete ouvert jusqu'en bas. Il doit s'agir d'une robe de dessus, dont les deux pans devalient etre serres a la taille par une ceinture. Contrairement aux vetements orientaux, pour la plupart tisses d'une piece, il a ete monte a partir d'un patron complete. This large clothing has ete decouvert in 1983. The smoothness of flax cloth confines has the transparency. The front low seems to have ete opened jusqu'en. It must s'agir d'une dress of top, whose two sides devalient being greenhouses has the size by a belt. Contrary to Eastern clothing, for the majority weave d'une part, it has ete goes up has to leave d'un owner complete. Cette robe a ete coupee dans une piece de tissu de 6,80 m de long sur 0,85 m de large. La partie principale de 3,38 m de long, forme a la fois le devant et le dos. Pliee au niveau des epaules, elle est fendue du haut en bas sur la face anterieure, et jusqu'au milieu du dos. L'ampleur du vetement est aumentee par des pieces triangulaires, qui en haut ecartent les deau bords du tissu principal et en bas, sont posees de chaue cote. Le col a larges revers est forme de quatre pieces. Les manches tres amples au niveau de sleevehole (39 cm), sont plus tight au niveau du poignet (29 cm). This dress has ete coupee in a fabric part 6,80 m length on 0,85 m broad. The 3,38 m length principal part, forms has the time the front and the back. Folded on the level of the shoulder, it is split top in bottom on the former face, and down to medium of the back. The width of clothing is augmented by triangular parts, which in top ecartent the two edges of principal fabric and in bottom, are posees of each dimension. The collar has broad reverses is the shape of four parts. The very full handles on the level of sleevehole (39 cm), are more tight on the level of the wrist (29 cm). Des manuscrits des VIII et IX siecles montrent de rares exemples de vetements feminins d'un type voisin, ainsi l'Apocalypse de Valenciennes (IX siecle) et le Psautier d 'Augsbourg (Planche de massacre des Innocents) Manuscripts of the VIII and IX centuries show to rare examples of clothing feminins d'un standard neighbor, thus l'Apocalypse of Valenciennes (IX century) and Psautier D 'Augsbourg (Board of massacre of the innocent) Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com I think, therefore I'm dangerous. I'll be Post-Feminist in a Post-Patriarchy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 21:50:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9E1olp3023323 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:50:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E1oJ3x016748 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:50:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E1oDjM001006; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:50:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E1o2jM000914 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:50:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from heather.jones@earthlink.net) Received: from h-67-101-146-230.snfccasy.dynamic.covad.net ([67.101.146.230] helo=[10.0.1.2]) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CHukj-0007Lw-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 18:50:01 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19C39CCA-1D5C-11D9-8FB1-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> References: <19C39CCA-1D5C-11D9-8FB1-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 18:51:05 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] help in dating a garment - early medieval Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 2:08 PM -0700 10/13/04, Althea Turner wrote: >Greetings all, > >I am working on a paper for school and need help in dating a >garment. It has been attributed to circa 680 France. The cut of >the garment suggests, to me, a much later date because of the >complexity. Am I off my rocker? :D > >I put an image at >http://www.alfalfapress.com/MERO/Robe_TresorsDeChelleslorez.jpg >I haven't been able to find anything nearly as complicated in cut >for several hundred years. Am I missing something? I'm happy to be >wrong but I'd rather be right because it makes the paper more >interesting. :D The garment is preserved at the church (cathedral?) of Chelles in France as a relic of Saint (and queen) Bathilde who indeed has 7th century dates. To the best of my knowledge the provenence is sound. The image at your link is from a French book about the various treasures preserved at this church, including discussions of various historical catalogs of the relics held there that help in tracing items across the centuries. I don't know whether any scientific study has been made of the garment with regard to confirming the date, but the embroidered tunic held there also associated with Saint Bathilde (see e.g., ) makes a fairly solid case for the dating being correct based on a comparison of artistic styles and motifs used in the embroidery. The book is: Laporte, Jean-Pierre. 1988. Le Tresor des Saints de Chelles. Societe Archeologique et Historique de Chelles, Ville de Chelles. If you have access to ILL, there's a copy in the University of California system somewhere (not Berkeley -- I think it may have been at UCLA). Both garments are quite unusual in the context of surviving garments from that general era ... but simply having survived makes them highly unusual in the first place. You won't likely find anything nearly as complicated for several hundred years because you've find extremely little -- complicated or simple -- for several hundred years. These are the sorts of garments that made me fall in love with researching surviving clothing -- you find stuff that you could never dream up by trying to reconstruct things from artwork. When you get down to it, the robe is at heart a "rectangles and triangles" construction, with the only really peculiar part being the treatment of the small rectangle at the nape of the neck. (The collar is somewhat surprising in its existence, but quite straightforward in construction.) I've made up a couple of versions of this garment -- one of a gorgeous diamond twill black-and-white wool, done at a 75% scale of the original, and one with several modifications for a modern jacket made of sari silk. (The original garment seems to have been of silk.) Heather -- **** Heather Rose Jones heather.jones@earthlink.net **** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 21:51:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9E1pkWo023327 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:51:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E1pE3x016832 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:51:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E1pDjM001529; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:51:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E1oSjM001132 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:50:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F9F817994 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 18:50:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041013183107.00b15678@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 18:50:02 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII and Tudor sleeves In-Reply-To: <007d01c4b17b$3fb448d0$47ccadcb@michaela> References: <416D30D7.3080203@reddawn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Re: > http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/h/holbein/hans_y/1535h/02henry8.jpg At 12:13 PM 10/14/2004 +1300, you wrote: >But you are right, he has put he sleeve through a slash of a hanging sleeve. >In fact it looks like thre are three openings, maybe two sets of sleeve?... >the top one is puffed though, you can see bu the direction of the applied >decoration, they angle in to the edge of the slash. > >I think there may well be a regular length puffed sleeve that he has his arm >going through, then a pendant narrow purely decorative sleeve behind.... > >Unless someone can give a better explanation of the second lot of trim and >fur lining showing through at the left side of his surcoat? Double layer >gowns really do not show up in the artwork I've looked at. It would be >interesting to see if they have elsewhere;) > >michaela de bruce >http://glittersweet.com Hi Michaela, Thanks so much for your insight on the schaube. I recall that garment now, although I have not researched it much, yet. On the image of Henry, I am thinking that in this particular image, the sleeve tubes actually may have three possible openings. I have a better image in my book than what is online. * The first opening is just under the big puff, where his arm wearing the doublet's sleeves, are coming from. * The second is about where his wrist and hands could go though, if he put his arm completely in the sleeves. There appears to be a dark opening in the sleeve at that point, trimmed with more fur. I am not sure how much between the first two openings is actually slashed, but the angle of the trim, and the edge of it, indicate some part of the slashed area is hanging open, somehow. * The third would be at the bottom of the very long sleeve, which is much longer than his actual arm length. However, there is no opening at all visible there, so it could be a closed sleeve at that point. Perhaps it is meant to either be purely decorative even when the full arm is in the sleeve, or hold things, or both? And just to clarify, the doublet is apparently worn over the shirt. The sleeves are attached to the doublet, and often matches it. I do not know if there is anything worn between the shirt and doublet, because it doesn't apparently show. However, one of the authors I read (don't remember which) stated that there is a waistcoat worn over the chemise, and under the doublet. The U front vest with attached base is then worn over the doublet, with the great coat worn over all of that. I kept calling the vest and attached base as a doublet with base, and that is incorrect. However, I am not sure what to call the U front vest with attached base, so I guess I will be hitting my books yet again. I look forward to more insight on this garment, as I am learning a lot from other's knowledge. Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 21:53:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9E1rZnI023333 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:53:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E1r13x016976 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:53:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E1r1jM002413; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:53:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E1qxjM002405 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:52:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 306055FEDB for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 18:52:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041013185203.0229d468@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 18:52:59 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Linen weight and outer garments In-Reply-To: References: <200410092022.i99KM2E1062292@net.indra.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20041010155712.02783148@64.87.54.245> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 04:25 PM 10/13/2004 -0400, you wrote: >Wouldn't wool be more appropriate than linen? For an outer garment of the 1540s, in general, yes. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 21:56:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9E1uURw023342 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:56:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E1tt3x017330 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:55:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E1tsjM003828; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:55:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-118.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E1tnjM003676 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:55:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by mail.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89C85425D5 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:25:04 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <416DDC9B.10309@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 20:55:39 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] list madness? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Am I the only one who is getting 10+ copies of every message tonight, or has the list gone completely haywire? Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 21:59:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9E1xjbx023362 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:59:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E1xA3x017601 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:59:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E1xAjM005223; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:59:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav29.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.86]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E1x6jM005172 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:59:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 18:59:00 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by bay9-dav29.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 01:58:17 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <416DDC9B.10309@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] list madness? Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:58:39 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Oct 2004 01:59:00.0648 (UTC) FILETIME=[5FA8AA80:01C4B191] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm fine here. Once in a while it'll shoot two copies, but not tonight. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 9:55 PM Subject: [h-cost] list madness? > Am I the only one who is getting 10+ copies of every message tonight, or > has the list gone completely haywire? > > > > Dawn > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 22:49:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9E2nDtt024103 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 22:49:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E2mb3x020741 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 20:48:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E2mWjM027292; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 20:48:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E2mSjN027251 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 20:48:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i9E2jTTA017996 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 22:45:29 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 22:45:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <416DE8FA.9090204@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 22:48:26 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Waistcoat vs. skirts 1661 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Another note from the serialized Pepys diary: (Lord’s day). Did not stir out all day, but rose and dined below, and this day left off half skirts and put on a wastecoate, and my false taby wastecoate with gold lace; (That's all there was about his outfit) http://www.pepysdiary.com/archive/1661/10/13/index.php -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 22:56:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9E2uf1u024248 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 22:56:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E2u93x021446 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 20:56:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E2u9jM031226; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 20:56:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav26.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.83]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E2u6jM031167 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 20:56:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:56:00 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by bay9-dav26.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 02:55:22 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 22:55:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Oct 2004 02:56:00.0853 (UTC) FILETIME=[56428850:01C4B199] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] OT: fairy wings X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Probably not this year, but some time in the future I want to do Halloween as a fairy. I know some people on this list also do fantasy costuming, so... my problem is mostly with the wings and how to build them. I can't seem to find details online, just sites to buy them already made. Anyone know of good sources? Thanks. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 23:26:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9E3QEO1024728 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 23:26:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E3PA3x024372 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:25:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E3P6jM048147; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:25:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E3P3jM048077 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:25:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from ches (c-24-1-84-130.client.comcast.net[24.1.84.130]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <200410140324570110073jele>; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 03:24:58 +0000 Message-ID: <130001c4b19d$15523f30$6d00a8c0@ches> From: "Chiara" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: fairy wings Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 22:22:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From the archives of a different list: for the wings, get some of those 16 gauge wire hoops, around the 12 in diameter ones, get 4 of them. stretch them with your hands into oval shapes, cover them with pantyhose. I colored my wings with hair sprays like the ones you get for Halloween for a glitter-shimmer effect. Tie the wings together with simple clear thread, it holds quite nicely, and I used 1 in elastic to go around the arms. ----------------------------- The last time I made Fairy Wings I used florist wire, because it is already covered, and it is easy to work with. I made casing around the edge of the wings, and in the *veining*, and threaded it through there. ----------------------------- http://www.fursuit.org/faq/17wings.htm ----------------------------- a google search of dress diaries with fairy wings in them ----------------------------- A common theme amongst most of the wing makers is that you really want to get wire that is already covered or that you can cover with tool dip or cloth. Chiara `°ş¤ř,¸¸,ř¤ş°` ----- Original Message ----- From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 9:55 PM Subject: [h-cost] OT: fairy wings : Hi, : Probably not this year, but some time in the future I want to do Halloween : as a fairy. I know some people on this list also do fantasy costuming, so... : my problem is mostly with the wings and how to build them. I can't seem to : find details online, just sites to buy them already made. Anyone know of : good sources? : Thanks. : : _______________________________________________ : h-costume mailing list : h-costume@mail.indra.com : http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 13 23:47:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9E3l7uu025097 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 23:47:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E3kd3x025915 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:46:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E3kcjM057888; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:46:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m14.mx.aol.com (imo-m14.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.204]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E3kajM057837 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:46:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.1f1.2c9dbf8a (3988) for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 23:46:26 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1f1.2c9dbf8a.2e9f5092@aol.com> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 23:46:26 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: fairy wings To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Do you want gossamer dragonfly wings? And how big? Y'know big wings can look really good. The wings I'm sure you can manage with sturdy wire and some gossamer fabric like Crystalette or a sheer, sparkly stretch fabric [easier to cover the frames with]. A fancy pair of hose can work great. The harness to keep them on your back can be done like a back pack worn under the costume. If things get even moderately heavy, the wings will want to fall back. The arm straps must be tight but they won't do it alone. You have to have a strap in front anchored securely at the waist or even through the crotch like a parachute. Use strapping NOT ELASTIC....with those plastic clips that make the strap adjustable. You need something sturdy, not elastic that gives. But you only need all this harness stuff if the wings get a little heavy. [This is good stuff to remember for angel wings...Christmas is coming up, y'know.] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 14 00:33:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9E4XEFc025897 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 00:33:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E4WL3x029044 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 22:32:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E4WAjM078241; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 22:32:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav21.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.125]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E4W6jM078177 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 22:32:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:32:00 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by bay9-dav21.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 04:31:32 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <130001c4b19d$15523f30$6d00a8c0@ches> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: fairy wings Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 00:31:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Oct 2004 04:32:00.0606 (UTC) FILETIME=[BF5717E0:01C4B1A6] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > http://www.fursuit.org/faq/17wings.htm Aah, lots of options... Thanks for the help. I'll probably be going for something small and light, so there won't be much need for a heavy-duty harness. But thanks for the advice anyway, it might come in handy :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 14 00:47:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9E4lnSq026138 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 00:47:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E4lI3x029912 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 22:47:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E4lHjM084823; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 22:47:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net (starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.227]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E4lFjM084807 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 22:47:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from dialup-4.152.117.11.dial1.atlanta1.level3.net ([4.152.117.11] helo=MOM) by starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CHxWE-0007GS-Je for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:47:15 -0700 Message-ID: <014301c4b1a8$f4a08880$0300a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <416DDC9B.10309@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] list madness? Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 00:47:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 140fedcc4d524cc6b18d26c2e407058b94f5150ab1c16ac08f4233f47979de26450f333883ee800376b86db8d92a0c48350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.152.117.11 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i9E4lnSq026138 Status: RO Dawn, I haven't been receiving multiple post of the same message. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Online Reference Library, AND Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumegallery.com/research.htm www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 14 01:12:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9E5CZql026583 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 01:12:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E5C03x001808 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Oct 2004 23:12:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E5BxjM095924; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 23:11:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E5BvjM095892 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 23:11:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7EC05E4A4 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 22:11:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041013221042.00b15670@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 22:11:43 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] list madness? In-Reply-To: <014301c4b1a8$f4a08880$0300a8c0@MOM> References: <416DDC9B.10309@reddawn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:47 AM 10/14/2004 -0400, you wrote: >Dawn, > >I haven't been receiving multiple post of the same message. > >Penny E. Ladnier I have gotten multiple posts here and there, but my problem usually is getting the replies a few days before getting the original post. Sometime not even the original post. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 14 02:01:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9E61IkU027551 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 02:01:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E60o3x004576 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 00:00:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E60hjM015791; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 00:00:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from indirectobject.com (066-241-084-045.bus.ashlandfiber.net [66.241.84.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E60ejM015745 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 00:00:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rreed@indirectobject.com) Message-Id: <200410140600.i9E60ejM015745@net.indra.com> Received: from synergy ([192.168.1.1]) by indirectobject.com (WWW [192.168.1.200]) (MDaemon.PRO.v6.8.5.R) with ESMTP id 39-md50000000012.tmp for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 23:00:17 -0700 From: To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Time line problem Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 23:00:24 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 In-Reply-To: <416D708B.1070206@kabelfoon.nl> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-Index: AcSxULjZbdO5BLpQQ1qD+SM/NlLgrgAYVaIg X-Spam-Processed: WWW, Wed, 13 Oct 2004 23:00:17 -0700 (not processed: message from valid local sender) X-MDRemoteIP: 192.168.1.1 X-Return-Path: rreed@indirectobject.com X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have also wanted a list of time periods, but have had trouble defining all of them. The problem I have found with naming time periods is that they can be different in different countries. For example, the Italian Renaissance was a different period than the English. Also, the Civil War era pertains only to American styles. I did find some links that list other research resources for timelines: http://www.costumes.org/history/100pages/costhistpage.htm http://www.wordiq.com/definition/List_of_time_periods If you come up with a timeline with all the different time periods listed, I would love a copy! Becky -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Deredere Galbraith Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 11:15 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Time line problem Hi, I was just working on my website when I realised that I was having some problems. Everywhere you see terms like Civil war, edwardian, victorian etc. But I realised that I'm not sure when exactly is which period. Is there a timeline somewere on the net where I can find this? Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 14 02:45:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9E6jPrj009981 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 02:45:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E6il3x006701 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 00:44:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E6ijjM032435; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 00:44:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from blaster.systems.pipex.net (blaster.systems.pipex.net [62.241.163.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E6iejM032324 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 00:44:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from linda.walton@dsl.pipex.com) Received: from bella (81-86-114-151.dsl.pipex.com [81.86.114.151]) by blaster.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 2A890E0000BC for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 07:43:48 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <005b01c4b1b9$246b62a0$97725651@bella> From: "Linda Walton" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200410140600.i9E60ejM015745@net.indra.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Time line problem Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 07:43:40 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This webpage http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/timelines/ has links to timelines for England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland, from pre-history to present day, which have many links to increasing layers of detail and pictures. There are also timelines for Ancient Egypt and Rome, and a rather fun video "Age of Treasures" timeline of archaeological finds, also with layers and links. And if you search on "Costume" there are a couple of children's games, where you dress Tudor and Victorian ladies and gentlemen. Have fun ! Linda Walton. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 14 03:16:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9E7GdE6020688 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 03:16:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E7G63x008464 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 01:16:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E7FtjM046736; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 01:16:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.201]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E7FqjM046696 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 01:15:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jacquelinejbump@gmail.com) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 78so89549rnl for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 00:15:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.65.39 with SMTP id n39mr3350621rna; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 00:15:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.14.59 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 00:15:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4c5accc8041014001518409497@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 03:15:51 -0400 From: Kristalori History To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1940s pants patterns? In-Reply-To: <063301c4b14f$22d98530$0400a8c0@compaqub> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20041013013522.99011.qmail@web13522.mail.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20041013080241.01457670@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> <08e901c4b128$8bbf1320$6d00a8c0@ches> <063301c4b14f$22d98530$0400a8c0@compaqub> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Must be in the air. I just made a pair of the Rosie the Riveter slacks from the Folkwear pattern. I made them out of *gasp* polyester however. A dark brown with self design in the fabric. Now I did see some pink "tweeds" at Joanne's the other night when I took my son to buy fabric for school and I'm seriously thinking of going and getting some to make more pants. The fabric had a very "Pretty in Pink" sort of look to it. On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:04:50 -0500, E House wrote: > I just bought 3 lengths of worsted wool for some 1940s pants. -- ============================ "Pardon me, Lady Tudor Glitz, but telling people things aren't period isn't period." Italian Ladies 2005 Calendar http://www.lulu.com/kristalori http://kristalori.com http://snipurl.com/96f1 Dress Diaries http://snipurl.com/9bir That 70's Trailer ============================ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 14 05:13:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9E9DCe8025887 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 05:13:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E9Cb3x013761 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 03:12:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E9COjM089670; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 03:12:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grunt5.ihug.co.nz (grunt5.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E9CLjM089579 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 03:12:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from p246-nas10.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.212.246] by grunt5.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CI1ea-0001Hz-00; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:12:09 +1300 Message-ID: <001e01c4b1cd$e4bed460$f6d4adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <416DDC9B.10309@reddawn.net> <5.2.1.1.0.20041013221042.00b15670@64.87.54.245> Subject: Re: [h-cost] list madness? Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:12:12 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I have gotten multiple posts here and there, but my problem usually is > getting the replies a few days before getting the original post. Sometime > not even the original post. That's what's been happening to me. On a few lists though. And at different times. I wonder if there is some worm making its rounds and causing some servers to delay mail? Or somehting like that anyway. I know I got your reply to me before I got my own email back! michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 14 05:18:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9E9Io3q027843 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 05:18:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E9IK3x014124 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 03:18:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E9IIjM091977; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 03:18:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E9IGjM091867 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 03:18:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (kf-ijss-cb01-0309.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.81.54]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04EB4319850 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 11:18:00 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <416E4446.5000906@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 11:17:58 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: fairy wings References: <1f1.2c9dbf8a.2e9f5092@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <1f1.2c9dbf8a.2e9f5092@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Fantasy/Fairy/Fairy.html At the bottom of the page there are some instruktions how I made my wings. Greetings, Deredere > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 14 05:31:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9E9VMaS029709 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 05:31:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E9TY3x014856 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 03:29:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E9TYjM096824; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 03:29:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.254.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E9TWjM096795 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 03:29:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:29:23 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII and Tudor sleeves To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3BB4@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Henry VIII and Tudor sleeves Thread-Index: AcSxT0yoSGcE/kLPR86JkLqCESGj+gAgJnLA content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.20 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I have made this coat, and I think, as you say, the top half is a very, > very large puff sleeve. I found cartridge pleats, with wadding/batting > inside made them stand out. Then the bottom is a tube, attached to the > back half of the puff only. The front of the tube is where the seam comes, > and is split down for 4-6 inches. There is a band round the front of the puff, > and the top of the "tube" is finished and decorated on the > inside, so when it falls open in those small petals they look fancy. Anyway, > that is how I interpreted it Hmmmm... That makes much more sense than my "third-part-to-the -sleeve" interpretation.... I'd say go with Suzi's method. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 14 05:33:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9E9Xecb029755 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 05:33:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E9Vq3x014963 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 03:31:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E9VqjM097800; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 03:31:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grunt8.ihug.co.nz (grunt8.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.48]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E9VnjM097787 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 03:31:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from p246-nas10.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.212.246] by grunt8.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CI1xa-0000TO-00; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:31:46 +1300 Message-ID: <002401c4b1d0$a2f8e130$f6d4adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <416D30D7.3080203@reddawn.net> <5.2.1.1.0.20041013183107.00b15678@64.87.54.245> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII and Tudor sleeves Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:31:50 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Thanks so much for your insight on the schaube. I recall that garment now, > although I have not researched it much, yet. It's such a lovely garment to wear, easy to deal with and warm:) > * The first opening is just under the big puff, where his arm wearing the > doublet's sleeves, are coming from. > * The second is about where his wrist and hands could go though, if he put > his arm completely in the sleeves. There appears to be a dark opening in > the sleeve at that point, trimmed with more fur. I am not sure how much > between the first two openings is actually slashed, but the angle of the > trim, and the edge of it, indicate some part of the slashed area is hanging > open, somehow. It was this opening that stumped me, as online it looks like a flattened opening, as in we can see the lining of the opposite side. Ooooh I just found another version of this image, and I think I get what you mean now.. The 2nd opening is like an upside down T. Perhaps more like an anchor, as it seems to be curved... The image is in the Master's of the German Art, Hans Holbein book. Page 106 if you have it. It might be in the Web Gallery of Art if it's in this book... http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/h/holbein/hans_y/1535h/06henry8.html Though my image isn't quite so cropped. > * The third would be at the bottom of the very long sleeve, which is much > longer than his actual arm length. However, there is no opening at all > visible there, so it could be a closed sleeve at that point. Perhaps it is > meant to either be purely decorative even when the full arm is in the > sleeve, or hold things, or both? I think so.. I just found an image in a book (that I have overdue from the library.. eek;) ) and it shows a young boy in a hanging sleeve like this. The end just tapers to a much narrower opening than a working sleeve would. In the Henry image I do see fur poking out at the bottom of the sleeve. Perhaps in your larger image it doesn't show thie? > And just to clarify, the doublet is apparently worn over the shirt. The > sleeves are attached to the doublet, and often matches it. I do not know if > there is anything worn between the shirt and doublet, because it doesn't > apparently show. However, one of the authors I read (don't remember which) > stated that there is a waistcoat worn over the chemise, and under the > doublet. The U front vest with attached base is then worn over the doublet, > with the great coat worn over all of that. I kept calling the vest and > attached base as a doublet with base, and that is incorrect. However, I am > not sure what to call the U front vest with attached base, so I guess I > will be hitting my books yet again. There is a name for a skirted man's doublet type outfit in Spain.. but I suspect it's a different kettle of fish... I think Boucher (well the translation) uses the term waistcoat, which I think is a loose translation of the French he would have used;) Camisole is used to describe the heavy sleeved doublet worn under Spanish women's dresses;) And you can't say it was a correct term: NOUN: 1. A woman's sleeveless undergarment, now usually worn under a sheer blouse. 2. A short negligee. ETYMOLOGY: French (from Italian camiciola, diminutive of camicia, shirt) or from Old Provençal camisolla, diminutive of camisa, shirt, both from Late Latin So if anything it's the shift.... It's all very interesting:) michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 14 05:35:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9E9ZsUM029797 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 05:35:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E9QK3x014680 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 03:26:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E9QIjM095349; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 03:26:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from alpha2.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (alpha2.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.0.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E9QFjM095296 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 03:26:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:25:32 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: RE: [h-cost] Henry VIII and Tudor sleeves To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3BB3@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Henry VIII and Tudor sleeves Thread-Index: AcSxT0yoSGcE/kLPR86JkLqCESGj+gAfxwyw content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.20 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I have the urge to make the outer 'coat' layer from Henry VIII's famous > portrait by Holbein, and I spent some time last night looking up > pictures and comparing them to the pattern I have. Every time I have > seen this garment made it's been constructed with a short puffed sleeve > gathered into a band above the elbow. There are variations on on, the straight-forward version is the upper puff and a straight lower sleeve, with the straight lower sleeve oly connected to the puff at the back so it can be worn on the arm like a full length sleeve OR be worn with the arm in the upper puff only and the straight lower part hanging behind from above the elbow at the back.... seen in your example here: > http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/h/holbein/hans_y/2drawing/1543/6henry8.jpg The more complicated version seen in your other too examples... > http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/h/holbein/hans_y/1535h/02henry8.jpg > http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/h/holbein/hans_y/1535h/06henry8.jpg ...has a third part to the sleeve - a shorter, possibly slightly flared lower sleeve, split up the front and about long enough to cover from the bottom of the puff to just below the elbow - this type of sleeve could theoreticaly eb worn with just the upper puff on the arm, the upper puff and the split short lower-sleeve (the arm would come out through the spit when the elbow was bent) or with all three parts on the arm in which case it would look like the middle (short/split) part was a flared, split-fronted "cuff" on the upper puff, over the top of the straight lower sleeve. TRo complicate it fuurther, it looks liek the upper puff in th latter two examples is *very* full and pleated/gathered nearly all the way around instead of just around the outer part of the arm and flat under the armpit area That's my take on it at least - Hope this helps Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 14 05:48:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9E9mKKv030009 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 05:48:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E9fg3x015460 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 03:41:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E9ffjM001773; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 03:41:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from copper.wightman.ca (copper.wightman.ca [216.249.0.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9E9fcjM001746 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 03:41:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lgsteph@wightman.ca) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by copper.wightman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE85B3F815 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 05:41:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d7k7b6 (unknown [142.46.141.52]) by copper.wightman.ca (Postfix) with SMTP id 49BF73F810 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 05:41:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <008301c4b1d2$a1727d60$6400a8c0@wightman.ca> From: "Five Rivers" To: References: <200410140121.i9E1LrjN087881@net.indra.com> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 05:46:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Victorian corset patterns X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO While I can recommend and do sell the Mantua-Maker's 1870-1895 corset pattern, in my opinion the best Victorian through Edwardian corset pattern on the market is the Laughing Moon Ladies Victorian Underwear set, which can be viewed through our website. The pattern contains two corset variations, a chemise and drawers, multi-sized 6-26 in one package. I have used this pattern for my own corset, and was so impressed I now use it to teach my Victorian corset making class. Simply one of the best patterns I've ever come across. Regards Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage fine hand-sewn embroidered garments, historical sewing patterns & embroidery supplies (519) 799-5577, http://www.5rivers.org email: info@5rivers.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 14 06:12:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9EACsbe030537 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 06:12:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EAB73x017110 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 04:11:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EAB5jM014596; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 04:11:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from alpha2.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (alpha2.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.0.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EAB2jM014574 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 04:11:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 11:10:46 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: [h-cost] Henry VIII and Tudor sleeves To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3BB5@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Henry VIII and Tudor sleeves Thread-Index: AcSxvjdHW2QmQ2U7SaODB6OtIG0JKgAFxwng content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.20 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > And just to clarify, the doublet is apparently worn over the shirt. The > sleeves are attached to the doublet, and often matches it. I do not know if > there is anything worn between the shirt and doublet, because it doesn't > apparently show. However, one of the authors I read (don't remember > which) stated that there is a waistcoat worn over the chemise, and under > the doublet. The U front vest with attached base is then worn over the > doublet, with the great coat worn over all of that. I kept calling the vest and > attached base as a doublet with base, and that is incorrect. However, I am > not sure what to call the U front vest with attached base, so I guess I > will be hitting my books yet again. As far as I'm aware, the average layering would be - Shirt - Doublet (possibly with skirts depending on style) with attached sleeves - Jerkin (in this case U-fronted) (Could be sleeveless, short-sleeved or have complete sleeves of its own)with bases - Surcote. Naturally, he would have his braes, tunk-hose and lower-hose on his lower half... Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 14 06:24:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9EAOaa1030866 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 06:24:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EAO83x017720 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 04:24:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EAMujM018795; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 04:22:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.254.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EAMtjM018778 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 04:22:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 11:18:15 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: RE: [h-cost] Time line problem To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3BB6@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Time line problem Thread-Index: AcSxvjdHW2QmQ2U7SaODB6OtIG0JKgAGE74w content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.20 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Also, the Civil War era pertains only to American styles. No! - The AMERICAN Civil War era pertains only to American styles - other countries had Civil War eras of their own (like the ENGLISH Civil War era which is 17th century... Typically, however, websites and books by americans refer to "THE" Civil War, meaning the American one because, *of course* it's the American one so there's no need to qualify it by stating the country or actual period. Sorry, pet-peeve of mine. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 14 06:27:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9EARwM0030954 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 06:27:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EAPi3x018048 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 04:25:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EAPhjM019759; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 04:25:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.200]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9EAOSjM019269 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 04:24:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Oct 2004 10:24:23 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041014112017.01457ee0@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 11:23:18 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII and Tudor sleeves In-Reply-To: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3BB5@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx .ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > >As far as I'm aware, the average layering would be > >- Shirt >- Doublet (possibly with skirts depending on style) with attached >sleeves >- Jerkin (in this case U-fronted) (Could be sleeveless, short-sleeved or >have complete sleeves of its own)with bases >- Surcote. > >Naturally, he would have his braes, tunk-hose and lower-hose on his >lower half... I found that the doublet with attached sleeves needed a skirt so it did not ride up when he raised his arms. I also made the bases from a pair of half circle, but felt that there needed to be more material in them for cartridge pleats, and would probably make it 3/4 circles if I had to make another. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 14 08:59:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9ECxpfZ001538 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 08:59:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9ECxB3x008092 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 06:59:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9ECx2jM082312; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 06:59:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-02-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (ms-smtp-02-smtplb.ohiordc.rr.com [65.24.5.136]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9ECwxjM082295 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 06:59:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ailith@neo.rr.com) Received: from duncan (dhcp024-209-056-164.neo.rr.com [24.209.56.164]) by ms-smtp-02-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id i9ECwuJm013894 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 08:58:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <004701c4b1ed$8cdf81c0$1902a8c0@duncan> From: "ailith" To: "Historical Costume" References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3BB6@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Time line problem Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 08:58:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mine, too, and I'm an American! I had a project due in my Photoshop class involving a pivotal point in history--I chose the American Civil War. I used images that Matthew Brady took and created a montage. It was titled "The American Civil War". During a peer review, the most often stated issue with my work was the title. Most felt that I didn't need "American". I did point out to them that we were not the only country to have had a civil war! kate ----- Original Message ----- From: "Teddy" To: Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 6:18 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Time line problem > > > Also, the Civil War era pertains only to American styles. > > No! - The AMERICAN Civil War era pertains only to American styles - > other countries had Civil War eras of their own (like the ENGLISH Civil > War era which is 17th century... Typically, however, websites and books > by americans refer to "THE" Civil War, meaning the American one because, > *of course* it's the American one so there's no need to qualify it by > stating the country or actual period. > > Sorry, pet-peeve of mine. > > Teddy > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 14 09:51:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9EDpLC9002533 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:51:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EDjQ3x011564 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 07:45:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EDjJjM004627; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 07:45:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EDjGjM004525 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 07:45:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m5.in-tch.com [216.166.191.5]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i9EDhxc04451 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 07:43:59 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <416E83F8.2030408@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 07:49:44 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] list madness? References: <416DDC9B.10309@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: <416DDC9B.10309@reddawn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It must be you, dearie, or your server, because I'm only getting one copy of each message, and no duplicates. --sue Dawn wrote: > Am I the only one who is getting 10+ copies of every message tonight, or > has the list gone completely haywire? > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 14 10:56:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9EEutM4003539 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:56:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EEuF3x017332 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 08:56:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EEuAjM046777; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 08:56:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.117]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EEu4jM046669 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 08:56:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Kiloran@worldnet.att.net) Received: from sharplaptop.worldnet.att.net (h-67-101-239-163.lsanca54.dynamic.covad.net[67.101.239.163]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13) with SMTP id <2004101414555311300dsctue> (Authid: Kiloran); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:55:53 +0000 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20041014075444.00bd8550@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net> X-Sender: Kiloran@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 07:55:52 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kiloran@worldnet.att.net In-Reply-To: <200410140717.i9E7HAjN047404@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i9EEu4jM046669 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Italian Renn c.1532 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello, everyone. I mostly just lurk here, but I’ve got a project I’ve been wanting to get at for a while. I have a lot of questions about it, and I was hoping I could get some answers here. It’s from a Bronzino portrait dated to about 1532 Florence. Here is a link: http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/secondflor/secflor31.html I’m sure it’s familiar to at least some of the people who post/read here. Does anyone know anything about the woman who’s simply named as “A daughter of Matteo Sofferoni”? I’m curious about her there’s something very modern about her face and expression. Also, I have a friend who could be her double! In fact, it’s for this friend that I want to attempt to recreate this dress. Has anyone made this? If so, I’d really appreciate any input you can give me. Now, all my questions about the dress. I find the blackwork chemise/camica unusual. I don’t think they were very common in Italy at that time (could she have lived in England for a time? Perhaps her father was a merchant and she went with him on his travels? Or perhaps he was an ambassador?) The construction on the chemise looks fairly simple. My feeling is the bands of blackwork were done separately and then the body of the chemise attached. Does anyone have any patterns, or sources for patterns that would help me recreate the pattern on the outside of the collar? The rest look fairly simple, but any suggestion for how to piece the thing together would be very welcome. Also, any suggestions for the pattern at the wrist ruffle would be welcome. I just can’t make out what that pattern is. Next, the gown. I’ve pretty much convinced myself the material is wool. With the lack of sheen and the way it hangs, I just don’t see how it can be a silk or satin, or anything else. The guards and sleeve trim (are those also called guards?) I think are satin, and I can’t decide if they’re the same material as the lower sleeves (I hope not, because I have this really exquisite remnant of very expensive duchesse satin that’s just the right color, but there’s only enough for the lower sleeves. not the guards). Also, any ideas as to what the trim right at the neckline is? It almost looks like gold links, but I don’t think it’s metal, it sits too smoothly to be metal (besides, I don’t think this woman would have worn a necklace of gold links around the neck of her gown. Too ostentatious). Another question about the sleeve decoration. It appears to be three vertical strips of satin at the front of the sleeve. Could there be another set of three strips at the back of the sleeve? And as for the lower sleeves, I’m kind of at a loss for how to create them. Satin that’s…slashed? With slashes that big, how do keep them from fraying? And is that the (very full) sleeve of the chemise you can see bunched up under/inside the lower sleeves? How would you go about constructing the bodice? Would you do a separate corset or build a corset into the lining of the bodice? There has to be some kind of stiffening; the front of the bodice is too flat and smooth for there not to be. And is that a separate belt or just a shadow in the painting? If it’s a belt, not sure it’s the same material as the gown. It almost looks like it could be a strip of velvet. As for the skirt, am I correct in assuming there would be two rows of trim to match the guards on the bodice, somewhere below knee length? As for the headdress, it looks like a fairly simple round cap with a flat crown and a sort of roll decorating the join between the sides of the cap and the crown. But here’s something that has me stumped. What is that just about behind where her left ear would be? IS that her ear? Or part of the headdress? Thanks for all your help, Julie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 14 11:29:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9EFTdwK004142 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 11:29:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EFS13x020639 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:28:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EFRsjM069131; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:27:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.204]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9EFRpjM069034 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:27:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Oct 2004 15:27:45 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041014161138.01458010@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:26:41 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Italian Renn c.1532 In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20041014075444.00bd8550@ipostoffice.worldnet.att .net> References: <200410140717.i9E7HAjN047404@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 07:55 14/10/2004 -0700, you wrote: >Hello, everyone. I mostly just lurk here, but I've got a project I've been >wanting to get at for a while. I have a lot of questions about it, and I >was hoping I could get some answers here. > >It's from a Bronzino portrait dated to about 1532 Florence. Here is a >link: http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/secondflor/secflor31.html > >I'm sure it's familiar to at least some of the people who post/read here. >Does anyone know anything about the woman who's simply named as "A >daughter of Matteo Sofferoni"? I'm curious about her there's something >very modern about her face and expression. Also, I have a friend who could >be her double! In fact, it's for this friend that I want to attempt to >recreate this dress. > >Has anyone made this? If so, I'd really appreciate any input you can give me. I have just made a version of this dress, in dark green velvet with silk bands for decoration. I did not make the shift, and I made very simple undersleeves. I think the original may well have been in silk velvet, which does not have a high sheen - I have some real antique silk velvet, maybe 70 years old, and it does not shine like modern velvet. I have also seen the original painting, which is in the Royal Collection at Hampton Court, and I would have thought it was velvet from what I remember - it was nearly 23 years ago!! I stiffened the bodice, using the pattern from Jean Hunnisett's book, Period Costume for Stage and Screen, 1500-1800, pattern for "Tudor Bodice", but I laced it down the back. I made separate undersleeves, and a large puff sleeve, gathering it about 4" from the edge to make the frill. I lined the puff sleeve completely with net and the silk from the bands, and sewed a channel where the gathers cane for a drawstring. I piped the edge of the bodice instead of using pickadils, for lack of time. There is definitely a belt on the original. I made a very simple pleated skirt, again partly through lack of time, and partly because the customer wanted a fairly "plain" (!) dress. I can send you a photo if you would like, but cannot post a link to it yet. The hat I made by covering a simple oval shape in spartra - do you have that? I padded it with some mull, or fine batting, then a flat piece of velvet on the tip and a layer of velvet cut on the cross round the sides. Then I covered the whole of it with fine gold mesh as I could not find any material similar to the painting. I made a lining which covered the huge stitches inside. I twisted some gold cord and green velvet ribbon to make the halo effect. That turned out longer than I meant - sorry, but hope it helped. If I can help some more do say. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 14 11:48:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9EFmhCT004619 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 11:48:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EFlc3x023144 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:47:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EFlYjM084017; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:47:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from alpha2.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (alpha2.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.0.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EFlWjM083993 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:47:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:40:54 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] list madness? To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3BBB@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] list madness? Thread-Index: AcSyA0mp5DaWz4hrScGFO/EQmcNGlQAALI1A content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.20 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > I have gotten multiple posts here and there, but my problem usually is > > getting the replies a few days before getting the original post. > > Sometime not even the original post. > > That's what's been happening to me. On a few lists though. > And at different times. I wonder if there is some worm making > its rounds and causing some servers to delay mail? > > Or somehting like that anyway. > > I know I got your reply to me before I got my own email back! Perhaps some of them are taking the "pretty route".. I realize that's no help but it's what occured to me - I have a mental image of the messages taking the long way 'round and stopping to look at the scenery on the way.... Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 14 11:49:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9EFnxS0004641 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 11:49:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EFn93x023288 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:49:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EFn3jM085153; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:49:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from alpha2.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (alpha2.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.0.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EFlxjM084333 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:48:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:46:14 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII and Tudor sleeves To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3BBC@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Henry VIII and Tudor sleeves Thread-Index: AcSyA0mp5DaWz4hrScGFO/EQmcNGlQAAT1+w content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.20 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >As far as I'm aware, the average layering would be > > > >- Shirt > >- Doublet (possibly with skirts depending on style) with attached > >sleeves > >- Jerkin (in this case U-fronted) (Could be sleeveless, short-sleeved > >or have complete sleeves of its own)with bases > >- Surcote. > I found that the doublet with attached sleeves needed a skirt so it did not > ride up when he raised his arms. His hose should be pointed to it around the waist (to hold them up) - that would prevent it (the doublet) from riding up > I also made the bases from a pair of half > circle, but felt that there needed to be more material in them for > cartridge pleats, and would probably make it 3/4 circles if I > had to make another. I'd agree with you there - I found full circle bases very "skimped" looking and would use at least a three-quarter circle or more where possible. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 14 11:50:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9EFo6jt004644 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 11:50:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EFii3x022736 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:44:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EFibjM081729; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:44:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m20.mx.aol.com (imo-m20.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EFiVjM081607 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:44:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.ff.3ae3b75 (4206) for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 11:44:16 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 11:44:16 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Italian Renn c.1532 To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 10/14/2004 11:29:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, suzi@suziclarke.co.uk writes: > http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/secondflor/secflor31.html > What a beautiful portrait! I think it's velvet too but one could get away with a fine wool. Suzi, how did you cut the sleeves? They look to me to be a wide cylinder cartridge pleated into the armseye and then draped and pinned [tacked] up to the undersleeve. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 14 11:55:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9EFtHoR004680 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 11:55:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EFsK3x023899 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:54:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EFsGjM089138; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:54:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from indirectobject.com (066-241-084-045.bus.ashlandfiber.net [66.241.84.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EFs6jM089031 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:54:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rreed@indirectobject.com) Message-Id: <200410141554.i9EFs6jM089031@net.indra.com> Received: from synergy ([192.168.1.1]) by indirectobject.com (WWW [192.168.1.200]) (MDaemon.PRO.v6.8.5.R) with ESMTP id 21-md50000000013.tmp for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 08:53:22 -0700 From: To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Time line problem Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 08:53:30 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 In-Reply-To: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3BB6@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> Thread-Index: AcSxvjdHW2QmQ2U7SaODB6OtIG0JKgAGE74wAAuKlVA= X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Processed: WWW, Thu, 14 Oct 2004 08:53:22 -0700 (not processed: message from valid local sender) X-MDRemoteIP: 192.168.1.1 X-Return-Path: rreed@indirectobject.com X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry, didn't mean to ruffle any feathers. The only reason I stated that was because in my research, the Civil War era clothing that I've seen is all American -- kind of like how all Elizabethan clothing is assumed to be English. I did some research last night because this interests me and found this information so far: Ancient Egyptian 3300 BC-30 BC Ancient Roman 30BC - 476 CE Byzantine 330 - 1453 Dark Ages 400-1000 Early Gothic 1000-1200 Medieval Europe 1200-1450 Italian Renaissance 1420-1600 Tudor - Henry VII 1485-1509 - Henry VIII 1509-1547 - Edward VI 1547-1553 - Marian 1553-1558 - Elizabethan 1558-1603 Jacobean 1603-1625 Baroque 1620-1750 Georgian 1720-1812 American Colonial 1492-1775 American Revolution 1775-1800 Neo Classical Period 1800-1825 Regency 1812-1830 Empire 1820-1840 American Civil War Era 1861-1865 Victorian Era 1837-1901 Edwardian Era 1901-1919 Anyone who has different info on dates, or different/more time periods, etc. please fill in. Hope this is helping whoever posted the original question. Becky -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Teddy Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 3:18 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] Time line problem > Also, the Civil War era pertains only to American styles. No! - The AMERICAN Civil War era pertains only to American styles - other countries had Civil War eras of their own (like the ENGLISH Civil War era which is 17th century... Typically, however, websites and books by americans refer to "THE" Civil War, meaning the American one because, *of course* it's the American one so there's no need to qualify it by stating the country or actual period. Sorry, pet-peeve of mine. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 14 12:12:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9EGC4dQ004752 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:12:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EGAj3x025947 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:10:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EGAUjM002493; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:10:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-118.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EGAPjM002363 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:10:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by mail.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17215425D5 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 11:39:53 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <416EA4D7.3000604@reddawn.net> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 11:09:59 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] list madness? References: <416DDC9B.10309@reddawn.net> <416E83F8.2030408@in-tch.com> In-Reply-To: <416E83F8.2030408@in-tch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sue Clemenger wrote: > It must be you, dearie, or your server, because I'm only getting one > copy of each message, and no duplicates. > --sue Thanks Sue, and everyone else who responded. My mailserver seems to be hiccuping, I got over 200 duplicate copies of messages last night, and it's begun again this morning... Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 14 12:21:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9EGLVrQ004847 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:21:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EGKa3x026973 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:20:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EGKCjM009745; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:20:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from indirectobject.com (066-241-084-045.bus.ashlandfiber.net [66.241.84.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EGK9jM009688 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:20:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rreed@indirectobject.com) Message-Id: <200410141620.i9EGK9jM009688@net.indra.com> Received: from synergy ([192.168.1.1]) by indirectobject.com (WWW [192.168.1.200]) (MDaemon.PRO.v6.8.5.R) with ESMTP id 27-md50000000013.tmp for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:19:34 -0700 From: To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Time line problem Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:19:42 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 In-Reply-To: <005b01c4b1b9$246b62a0$97725651@bella> Thread-Index: AcSxucqjL1iNo92FQTak0Xl9yNscJgAT6P4g X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Processed: WWW, Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:19:34 -0700 (not processed: message from valid local sender) X-MDRemoteIP: 192.168.1.1 X-Return-Path: rreed@indirectobject.com X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: h-costume@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry, I goofed when I said Elizabethan era -- meant to say Victorian era was assumed to be only English. Must have stay ed up too late working on this... Again, not intended to sound "American" or upset anyone. Becky _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 14 12:38:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9EGcaKR005108 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:38:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EGWr3x028596 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:32:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EGWmjM019405; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:32:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from deluge.cc.mcgill.ca (deluge.CC.McGill.CA [132.206.27.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EGWjjM019360 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:32:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanna.hobbins@mail.mcgill.ca) Received: from mailscan2.cc.mcgill.ca (mailscan2.CC.McGill.CA [132.216.77.249]) by deluge.cc.mcgill.ca (8.12.11/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i9EGWgtb011231 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:32:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LIBRARY2162 (GIS131.Library.McGill.CA [132.216.28.131]) by mailscan2.cc.mcgill.ca (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EGWdSm017532 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:32:39 -0400 (EDT) From: "Joanna Hobbins" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Time line problem Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:32:32 -0400 Message-ID: <0EC215885A2D74459D732218EA1CF236018295C8@EXCHANGEVS3.campus.mcgill.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <0EC215885A2D74459D732218EA1CF236017B22F2@EXCHANGEVS3.campus.mcgill.ca> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i9EGWjjM019360 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO How about splitting the Dark ages into Merovingian 500-751 Carolingian 751-843 Ottonian 900-1002 Cheers, Joanna -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of rreed@indirectobject.com Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 11:54 AM To: 'Historical Costume' Subject: RE: [h-cost] Time line problem Sorry, didn't mean to ruffle any feathers. The only reason I stated that was because in my research, the Civil War era clothing that I've seen is all American -- kind of like how all Elizabethan clothing is assumed to be English. I did some research last night because this interests me and found this information so far: Ancient Egyptian 3300 BC-30 BC Ancient Roman 30BC - 476 CE Byzantine 330 - 1453 Dark Ages 400-1000 Early Gothic 1000-1200 Medieval Europe 1200-1450 Italian Renaissance 1420-1600 Tudor - Henry VII 1485-1509 - Henry VIII 1509-1547 - Edward VI 1547-1553 - Marian 1553-1558 - Elizabethan 1558-1603 Jacobean 1603-1625 Baroque 1620-1750 Georgian 1720-1812 American Colonial 1492-1775 American Revolution 1775-1800 Neo Classical Period 1800-1825 Regency 1812-1830 Empire 1820-1840 American Civil War Era 1861-1865 Victorian Era 1837-1901 Edwardian Era 1901-1919 Anyone who has different info on dates, or different/more time periods, etc. please fill in. Hope this is helping whoever posted the original question. Becky _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 14 12:40:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9EGe4qa005134 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:40:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EGYL3x028797 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:34:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EGYKjM020659; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:34:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.141]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9EGX9jM019617 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:33:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Oct 2004 16:33:03 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041014172712.01458160@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:31:59 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII and Tudor sleeves In-Reply-To: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3BBC@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx .ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 16:46 14/10/2004 +0100, you wrote: > > >As far as I'm aware, the average layering would be > > > > > >- Shirt > > >- Doublet (possibly with skirts depending on style) with attached > > >sleeves > > >- Jerkin (in this case U-fronted) (Could be sleeveless, short-sleeved > > > >or have complete sleeves of its own)with bases > > >- Surcote. > > > I found that the doublet with attached sleeves needed a skirt so it >did not > > ride up when he raised his arms. > >His hose should be pointed to it around the waist (to hold them up) - >that would prevent it (the doublet) from riding up I do know what *should* be, but you try telling that to a customer who is having problem getting hose in the first place. In fact the portrait seems to indicate stockings rolled over a garter, rather than full length hose. He also wanted the trunk hose to fasten with a cod piece and with points, but not to the doublet, as he was doing a lot of archery demonstrations, and found the "laced-up" thing rather restricting, especially with the big coat as well as everything else!! Me, I just do what I'm paid for, after giving advice, naturally Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 14 12:47:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9EGl9pR005262 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:47:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EGkP3x000248 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:46:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EGkPjM029766; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:46:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.201]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9EGifjM028377 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:44:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Oct 2004 16:44:32 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041014173408.0155e018@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:38:26 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: RE: [h-cost] Time line problem In-Reply-To: <200410141554.i9EFs6jM089031@net.indra.com> References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3BB6@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > > >Ancient Egyptian 3300 BC-30 BC >Ancient Roman 30BC - 476 CE >Byzantine 330 - 1453 >Dark Ages 400-1000 >Early Gothic 1000-1200 >Medieval Europe 1200-1450 >Italian Renaissance 1420-1600 >Tudor > - Henry VII 1485-1509 > - Henry VIII 1509-1547 > - Edward VI 1547-1553 > - Marian 1553-1558 > - Elizabethan 1558-1603 >Jacobean 1603-1625 >Baroque 1620-1750 >Georgian 1720-1812 >American Colonial 1492-1775 >American Revolution 1775-1800 >Neo Classical Period 1800-1825 >Regency 1812-1830 >Empire 1820-1840 >American Civil War Era 1861-1865 >Victorian Era 1837-1901 >Edwardian Era 1901-1919 > >Anyone who has different info on dates, or different/more time periods, etc. >please fill in. Hope this is helping whoever posted the original question. > >Becky Small cavil Georgian is 1720 - 1830. Regency is 1810 - 1820. Four Georges, George lV dying in 1830, was Regent from 1810 to when he became King in 1820. Sorry, a pet peeve of mine!! and it's only *technical* anyway - Regency style in England lingered through William lV. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 14 12:51:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9EGpUQS005342 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:51:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EGiq3x029944 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:44:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EGihjM028468; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:44:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.201]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9EGidjM028351 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:44:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Oct 2004 16:44:32 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041014173901.015539f8@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:43:24 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Italian Renn c.1532 In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:44 14/10/2004 -0400, you wrote: >In a message dated 10/14/2004 11:29:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, >suzi@suziclarke.co.uk writes: > > > http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/secondflor/secflor31.html > > > >What a beautiful portrait! > >I think it's velvet too but one could get away with a fine wool. > >Suzi, how did you cut the sleeves? They look to me to be a wide cylinder >cartridge pleated into the armseye and then draped and pinned [tacked] up >to the >undersleeve. I have a pattern for a sleeve from a book I wrote for children and just enlarged it. It isn't exactly a tube, as it has a slight curve at the top, and is slightly cut down under the arms, where you don't pleat 'cos it is more comfortable. The drawstring 4" from the bottom was tight enough to keep the sleeve in place at the elbow. That in turn made the puff fold and crumple. This dress was made in a great hurry, so no time for fiddling, but that seemed to work perfectly well. I was taught, "If the simple way works, why complicate things?!" . _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 14 14:15:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9EIFA7A006892 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:15:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EIEL3x009911 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:14:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EIEDjM097040; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:14:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f30.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.80]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EIEAjM096931 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:14:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 11:14:03 -0700 Received: from 199.164.253.13 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 18:13:13 GMT X-Originating-IP: [199.164.253.13] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 13:13:13 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Oct 2004 18:14:03.0581 (UTC) FILETIME=[961FCED0:01C4B219] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Time line stuff X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just a tiny bit of pedantry, if I may - Giving specific dates is a useful generalization, but leads to the unusual risk of being misleading. Say you have the Guacamole era 2234-2456 and the Fripperian 2457-4310 -- this implies that a) people in the Guacamole wore the same thing for the entire period, and b) that someone in 2456 and 2457 would be wearing garments that were completely different. Marc _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 14 14:22:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9EIM2dA007000 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:22:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EIJr3x010415 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:19:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EIJnjM001283; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:19:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:wC8DEPQs+Wz/LdsYPsVFXKAmCUYA0MuA@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EIJkjM001233 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:19:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from webmail.patriot.net (vanburen.patriot.net [209.249.176.8]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id i9EIJj6s027399 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:19:45 -0400 Received: from dci012034013036.discovery.com ([12.34.13.36]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user aquazoo) by webmail.patriot.net with HTTP; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:19:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <57183.12.34.13.36.1097777985.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:19:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Time line stuff From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, of course, Marc! Everyone else in the world put away their 20thC clothes and bought a whole new wardrobe at the turn of the 21st C. Didn't you? :-) -Carol > Just a tiny bit of pedantry, if I may - Giving specific dates is a useful > generalization, but leads to the unusual risk of being misleading. Say > you have the Guacamole era 2234-2456 and the Fripperian 2457-4310 > -- this implies that a) people in the Guacamole wore the same thing for > the entire period, and b) that someone in 2456 and 2457 would be > wearing garments that were completely different. > > Marc _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 14 14:22:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9EIMMR6007009 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:22:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EILh3x010628 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:21:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EILejM002669; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:21:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m14.mx.aol.com (imo-m14.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.204]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EILajM002593 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:21:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.12d.4d4d0e30 (4206) for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:21:27 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <12d.4d4d0e30.2ea01da7@aol.com> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:21:27 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Italian Renn c.1532 To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 10/14/2004 12:47:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, suzi@suziclarke.co.uk writes: > I was taught, "If the simple way works, > why complicate things?!" > Indeed. I agree. The straps are almost off the shoulder [like so many in this period] so I would think that there need not be too much of a sleeve head but I think I might put one too....and of course not gather under the arm. It also appears there might be a gathering point mid way down the sleeve as well as the one above the hem so you get the 2 poufs. And the gathering seems to be tighter at the point of the bands of trim rather than even all the way around. I'm sure you would've tweaked things like that had you had time. I always think in terms of theatre or film where you want things secure and the same and fresh night after night. I would tack the gatherings to an undersleeve....probably in such a way as to be able to let it down for better steaming and pressing. This makes me want to make a Renn. gown. Something I haven't done for decades. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 14 14:50:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9EIoRP4007547 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:50:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EIne3x013542 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:49:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EInMjM022339; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:49:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from arkroyal.concentric.com (arkroyal.concentric.com [207.155.252.155]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EInJjM022300 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:49:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) Received: (root@localhost) by arkroyal.concentric.com id OAA04347; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:49:18 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.17] Message-ID: <200410141849.OAA04347@arkroyal.concentric.com> From: Julie To: Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 11:49:18 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <200410141801.i9EI1bjO087992@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i9EInJjM022300 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] TimeLine X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wow. I can't tell you how helpful this is. I've got a list running and am adding to it as folks post revisions/additions. I was aware that the English civil war is a different time than the U.S. but of course I only know the years for the U.S. What are some other important periods to include here? Thanks all Julie > > Ancient Egyptian 3300 BC-30 BC > Ancient Roman 30BC - 476 CE > Byzantine 330 - 1453 > Dark Ages 400-1000 > Early Gothic 1000-1200 > Medieval Europe 1200-1450 > Italian Renaissance 1420-1600 > Tudor > - Henry VII 1485-1509 > - Henry VIII 1509-1547 > - Edward VI 1547-1553 > - Marian 1553-1558 > - Elizabethan 1558-1603 > Jacobean 1603-1625 > Baroque 1620-1750 > Georgian 1720-1812 > American Colonial 1492-1775 > American Revolution 1775-1800 > Neo Classical Period 1800-1825 > Regency 1812-1830 > Empire 1820-1840 > American Civil War Era 1861-1865 > Victorian Era 1837-1901 > Edwardian Era 1901-1919 > > Anyone who has different info on dates, or different/more time periods, etc. > please fill in. Hope this is helping whoever posted the original question. > > Becky _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 14 14:57:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9EIvm2O007686 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:57:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EIuw3x014182 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:56:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EIurjM027611; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:56:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.204]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EIuojM027567 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:56:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jacquelinejbump@gmail.com) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 79so855165rnl for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 11:56:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.75.43 with SMTP id x43mr594279rna; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 11:56:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.14.59 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 11:56:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4c5accc80410141156162aa4c2@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:56:50 -0400 From: Kristalori History To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Time line problem In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20041014173408.0155e018@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3BB6@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> <200410141554.i9EFs6jM089031@net.indra.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20041014173408.0155e018@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think then the way I have era's divided would drive people mad. Can't please everyone however and everyone has their own ideas on how the eras should be divided up. http://snipurl.com/96f1 Dress Diaries B. > Small cavil > > Georgian is 1720 - 1830. > Regency is 1810 - 1820. > > Four Georges, George lV dying in 1830, was Regent from 1810 to when he > became King in 1820. > > Sorry, a pet peeve of mine!! and it's only *technical* anyway - Regency > style in England lingered through William lV. > > Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 14 15:08:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9EJ87jV007871 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:08:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EJ7M3x015341 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 13:07:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EJ7FjM035093; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 13:07:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-118.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EJ7DjM034977 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 13:07:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by mail.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64C76425D5 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:36:32 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <416ECE3A.9040106@reddawn.net> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:06:34 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] TimeLine References: <200410141849.OAA04347@arkroyal.concentric.com> In-Reply-To: <200410141849.OAA04347@arkroyal.concentric.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Julie wrote: > >>American Colonial 1492-1775 >>American Revolution 1775-1800 >>Neo Classical Period 1800-1825 >>Regency 1812-1830 >>Empire 1820-1840 I would throw "antebellum" into this hole as pre-ACW, I see that word used a lot for this period. >>American Civil War Era 1861-1865 >>Victorian Era 1837-1901 >>Edwardian Era 1901-1919 Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 14 15:27:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9EJRFs4008227 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:27:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EJQJ3x017455 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 13:26:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EJQ9jM049180; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 13:26:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EJQ7jM049064 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 13:26:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.11.35efb2be (18251) for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:25:59 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <11.35efb2be.2ea02cc6@aol.com> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:25:58 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Time line problem To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5031 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 10/14/2004 12:47:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, suzi@suziclarke.co.uk writes: Regency 1812-1830 >Empire 1820-1840 >American Civil War Era 1861-1865 And that is sticky, because, strictly speaking, the English regency ended in 1820 (21?) And there was the French Regency in the 18th century. Also, the French Empire was, of course, 1804-1815, even though the Empire style in decorative arts is later. Not real simple, is it? Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 14 17:13:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9ELDhPk009869 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:13:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9ELD73x028138 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:13:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9ELCxjM030681; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:12:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065c32.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065c32.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.247]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9ELCujM030638 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:12:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hardcorps@earthlink.net) Received: from grover.psp.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.78.249]) by pop-a065c32.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CICu7-0003Cu-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:12:55 -0700 Message-ID: <23637944.1097788375098.JavaMail.root@grover.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:12:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Frank and Tracy Thallas To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Italian Renn c.1532 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i9ELCujM030638 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello the list! Lured out of Lurkmode by a blackwork question.... I love this portrait! I'll leave the gown to the outerwear experts. I've been gathering blackwork portraits for awhile now; while blackwork camisas (camisae?) are not unusual in Italy around this time, the particular style this lady wears is a little different. Most I've found in Italy are the low-cut (think Raphael's "La Muta") variety. Perhaps this lady is showing us a transitional style? If this link works: http://www.wga.hu/html/b/bronzino/2/index.html it should give you a page containing your painting, and a couple of others in which the same style of camisa is shown - look at "Portrait of Laura Battiferri" (doesn't she have the most wonderful nose?) and "Portrait of a Lady with a Puppy". These are about 20 years after your portrait, and the blackwork decoration has been replaced with some sort of raised? whitework. On the construction of the camisa itself, I have never been able to replicate the look of "gather" at the neck without raglan seams - what works best for me is the old "4-yard-shirt" they used to teach to Renn Faire newbies. I would work the collar separately and attach during construction, but the little geometric pattern on the shirt front can be worked on the whole cloth, as can the little pattern (this is really too small to work out, sigh - I'd choose a small, relatively simple floral meander from a good pattern book) at the wrists. I have never been able to decide if these sleeves are gathered by cuffs of some sort or if they are loose.. Oh, and my 2 cents on the neckline trim - I don't know the right word for it, but could it be folds of fabric/ribbon caught in the seam like piping? Does that make ANY sense? Hope this is a tiny bit of help....... Liadain -----Original Message----- From: Kiloran@worldnet.att.net Sent: Oct 14, 2004 7:55 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Italian Renn c.1532 Hello, everyone. I mostly just lurk here, but I’ve got a project I’ve been wanting to get at for a while. I have a lot of questions about it, and I was hoping I could get some answers here. It’s from a Bronzino portrait dated to about 1532 Florence. Here is a link: http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/secondflor/secflor31.html Now, all my questions about the dress. I find the blackwork chemise/camica unusual. I don’t think they were very common in Italy at that time (could she have lived in England for a time? Perhaps her father was a merchant and she went with him on his travels? Or perhaps he was an ambassador?) The construction on the chemise looks fairly simple. My feeling is the bands of blackwork were done separately and then the body of the chemise attached. Does anyone have any patterns, or sources for patterns that would help me recreate the pattern on the outside of the collar? The rest look fairly simple, but any suggestion for how to piece the thing together would be very welcome. Also, any suggestions for the pattern at the wrist ruffle would be welcome. I just can’t make out what that pattern is. Next, the gown. I’ve pretty much convinced myself the material is wool. With the lack of sheen and the way it hangs, I just don’t see how it can be a silk or satin, or anything else. The guards and sleeve trim (are those also called guards?) I think are satin, and I can’t decide if they’re the same material as the lower sleeves (I hope not, because I have this really exquisite remnant of very expensive duchesse satin that’s just the right color, but there’s only enough for the lower sleeves. not the guards). Also, any ideas as to what the trim right at the neckline is? It almost looks like gold links, but I don’t think it’s metal, it sits too smoothly to be metal (besides, I don’t think this woman would have worn a necklace of gold links around the neck of her gown. Too ostentatious). Another question about the sleeve decoration. It appears to be three vertical strips of satin at the front of the sleeve. Could there be another set of three strips at the back of the sleeve? And as for the lower sleeves, I’m kind of at a loss for how to create them. Satin that’s…slashed? With slashes that big, how do keep them from fraying? And is that the (very full) sleeve of the chemise you can see bunched up under/inside the lower sleeves? Thanks for all your help, Julie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 14 17:34:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9ELYPiP009968 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:34:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9ELWY3x000391 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:32:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9ELWTjM046006; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:32:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav3.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.107]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9ELWQjM045901 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:32:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:32:08 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by BAY9-DAV3.phx.gbl with DAV; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 20:21:14 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <11.35efb2be.2ea02cc6@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Time line problem Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:21:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Oct 2004 21:32:08.0939 (UTC) FILETIME=[425983B0:01C4B235] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Regency 1812-1830 > >Empire 1820-1840 > >American Civil War Era 1861-1865 > And that is sticky, because, strictly speaking, the English regency ended in > 1820 (21?) And there was the French Regency in the 18th century. Also, the > French Empire was, of course, 1804-1815, even though the Empire style in > decorative arts is later. > > Not real simple, is it? Ah, so I was right, in some way at least. I didn't dare bring it up because I'm not good enough with timelines :-) but to me Empire is somewhere around 1800-1820, because when I think of Empire dresses I see Josephine-style dresses, and that's around those years. But even in literature classes, my teachers didn't dare put a definite date on time periods. We talked mostly about currents, or whatever you call them usually. In clothing, I guess you would call that a fashion style. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 14 17:39:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9ELd5ko010016 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:39:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9ELb83x000901 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:37:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9ELb6jM049737; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:37:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-03-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (ms-smtp-03-smtplb.ohiordc.rr.com [65.24.5.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9ELanjM049548 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:36:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ailith@neo.rr.com) Received: from duncan (dhcp024-209-056-164.neo.rr.com [24.209.56.164]) by ms-smtp-03-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id i9ELajwa016213 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:36:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001601c4b235$e2d8b400$1902a8c0@duncan> From: "ailith" To: "Historical Costume" References: <23637944.1097788375098.JavaMail.root@grover.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Italian Renn c.1532 Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:36:36 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm thinking that the gold around the neck is a corded binding that's been slashed at measured intervals. But that's just my $ .02. kate ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank and Tracy Thallas" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 5:12 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Italian Renn c.1532 > Hello the list! > Lured out of Lurkmode by a blackwork question.... > I love this portrait! I'll leave the gown to the outerwear experts. I've been gathering blackwork portraits > for awhile now; while blackwork camisas (camisae?) are not unusual in Italy around this time, the particular style this lady wears is a little different. Most I've found in Italy are the low-cut (think Raphael's "La Muta") variety. > Perhaps this lady is showing us a transitional style? > If this link works: > http://www.wga.hu/html/b/bronzino/2/index.html > it should give you a page containing your painting, and a couple of others in which the same style of camisa is > shown - look at "Portrait of Laura Battiferri" (doesn't she have the most wonderful nose?) and "Portrait of a Lady with a Puppy". These are about 20 years after your portrait, and the blackwork decoration has been replaced with some sort of raised? whitework. > On the construction of the camisa itself, I have never been able to replicate the look of "gather" at the neck > without raglan seams - what works best for me is the old "4-yard-shirt" they used to teach to Renn Faire newbies. > I would work the collar separately and attach during construction, but the little geometric pattern on the shirt front > can be worked on the whole cloth, as can the little pattern (this is really too small to work out, sigh - I'd choose a > small, relatively simple floral meander from a good pattern book) at the wrists. I have never been able to decide if these sleeves are gathered by cuffs of some sort or if they are loose.. > > Oh, and my 2 cents on the neckline trim - I don't know the right word for it, but could it be folds of fabric/ribbon > caught in the seam like piping? Does that make ANY sense? > > > Hope this is a tiny bit of help....... > Liadain > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kiloran@worldnet.att.net > Sent: Oct 14, 2004 7:55 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: [h-cost] Italian Renn c.1532 > > Hello, everyone. I mostly just lurk here, but I've got a project I've been > wanting to get at for a while. I have a lot of questions about it, and I > was hoping I could get some answers here. > > It's from a Bronzino portrait dated to about 1532 Florence. Here is a link: > http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/secondflor/secflor31.html > > > Now, all my questions about the dress. I find the blackwork chemise/camica > unusual. I don't think they were very common in Italy at that time (could > she have lived in England for a time? Perhaps her father was a merchant and > she went with him on his travels? Or perhaps he was an ambassador?) The > construction on the chemise looks fairly simple. My feeling is the bands of > blackwork were done separately and then the body of the chemise attached. > Does anyone have any patterns, or sources for patterns that would help me > recreate the pattern on the outside of the collar? The rest look fairly > simple, but any suggestion for how to piece the thing together would be > very welcome. Also, any suggestions for the pattern at the wrist ruffle > would be welcome. I just can't make out what that pattern is. > > Next, the gown. I've pretty much convinced myself the material is wool. > With the lack of sheen and the way it hangs, I just don't see how it can be > a silk or satin, or anything else. The guards and sleeve trim (are those > also called guards?) I think are satin, and I can't decide if they're the > same material as the lower sleeves (I hope not, because I have this really > exquisite remnant of very expensive duchesse satin that's just the right > color, but there's only enough for the lower sleeves. not the guards). > Also, any ideas as to what the trim right at the neckline is? It almost > looks like gold links, but I don't think it's metal, it sits too smoothly > to be metal (besides, I don't think this woman would have worn a necklace > of gold links around the neck of her gown. Too ostentatious). Another > question about the sleeve decoration. It appears to be three vertical > strips of satin at the front of the sleeve. Could there be another set of > three strips at the back of the sleeve? And as for the lower sleeves, I'm > kind of at a loss for how to create them. Satin that's.slashed? With > slashes that big, how do keep them from fraying? And is that the (very > full) sleeve of the chemise you can see bunched up under/inside the lower > sleeves? > > > Thanks for all your help, > Julie > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 14 17:53:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9ELr8GP010190 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:53:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9ELlH3x001985 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:47:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9ELkojM057871; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:46:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m19.mx.aol.com (imo-m19.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9ELkljM057743 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:46:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Chindora@aol.com) Received: from Chindora@aol.com by imo-m19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.7d.5a7c4d1b (1320) for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:46:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Chindora@aol.com Message-ID: <7d.5a7c4d1b.2ea04dbb@aol.com> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:46:35 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Italian Renn c.1532 (bodice edging) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5000 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am sure that one of you folks that knows more about this can more accurately describe the little *thingies* around the neck, but I believe that they are a form of picadil which consists of a narrow strip of fabric that is folded over and sandwiched between the fashion fabric and the lining, with a small loop extending from the edge of the garment. A cord, or even tightly rolled strip of fabric would be pulled through the loops. I have seen portraits where the strip of fabric is slightly puffed out between the picadils, but of course don't have any concrete references at this moment. Suzi also posted : "I piped the edge of the bodice instead of using pickadils." This would also be an option. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 14 18:07:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9EM7Q6w010483 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 18:07:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EM663x003909 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:06:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EM5xjM072814; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:05:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.202]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9EM5vjM072696 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:05:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Oct 2004 22:05:51 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041014230431.015595a8@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 23:04:49 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Italian Renn c.1532 (bodice edging) In-Reply-To: <7d.5a7c4d1b.2ea04dbb@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 17:46 14/10/2004 -0400, you wrote: I am sure that one of you folks that knows more about this can more accurately describe the little *thingies* around the neck, but I believe that they are a form of picadil which consists of a narrow strip of fabric that is folded over and sandwiched between the fashion fabric and the lining, with a small loop extending from the edge of the garment. A cord, or even tightly rolled strip of fabric would be pulled through the loops. I have seen portraits where the strip of fabric is slightly puffed out between the picadils, but of course don't have any concrete references at this moment. Suzi also posted : "I piped the edge of the bodice instead of using pickadils." This would also be an option. This kind of edging can be seen on many portraits of Queen Elizabeth l, in particular the "Phoenix" portrait, where it is very clear. I know it is later, and in England, but according to Janet Arnold, the Queen wore gowns from all over. I think I have seen it somewhere else, but cannot off hand remember where. The description posted above by Chindora just about covers it perfectly. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 14 18:26:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9EMQwRB010841 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 18:26:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EMGO3x004955 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:16:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EMGCjM080660; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:16:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065c32.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065c32.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.247]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EMG9jM080610 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:16:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hardcorps@earthlink.net) Received: from grover.psp.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.78.249]) by pop-a065c32.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CIDtJ-0001WH-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:16:09 -0700 Message-ID: <10355898.1097792169154.JavaMail.root@grover.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:16:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Frank and Tracy Thallas To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Italian Renn c.1532 (bodice edging) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ah HAH! Pickadil is the word my poor tired brain wouldn't cough up... Liadain -----Original Message----- From: Chindora@aol.com Sent: Oct 14, 2004 2:46 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Italian Renn c.1532 (bodice edging) I am sure that one of you folks that knows more about this can more accurately describe the little *thingies* around the neck, but I believe that they are a form of picadil which consists of a narrow strip of fabric that is folded over and sandwiched between the fashion fabric and the lining, with a small loop extending from the edge of the garment. A cord, or even tightly rolled strip of fabric would be pulled through the loops. I have seen portraits where the strip of fabric is slightly puffed out between the picadils, but of course don't have any concrete references at this moment. Suzi also posted : "I piped the edge of the bodice instead of using pickadils." This would also be an option. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 14 19:01:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9EN1Ti9011308 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 19:01:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EN0t3x010903 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:00:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9EN0mjM014812; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:00:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web51401.mail.yahoo.com (web51401.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.180]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9EN0ijM014730 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:00:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ivycircle@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20041014230038.57684.qmail@web51401.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.240.135.87] by web51401.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:00:38 PDT Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:00:38 -0700 (PDT) From: ~Angelique To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200410142218.i9EMIKjO082359@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Dyeing of the wool ;-) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Good evening, Recently I bought a bit of wool flannel for a gown. It appeared on the monitor to be a lovely Deep brown (like pumpernickle bread?) Instead it's more of a semi sweet chocolate. I'd like to either try to dye a darker brown or perhaps a near navy. Question: How badly will this shrink my wool? How about an appropriate dye. I really am kicking myself for not realizing "monitor colors may vary." Thank you, Again Angelique __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 14 19:51:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9ENp2m6011767 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 19:51:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9ENoL3x014878 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:50:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9ENo8jM046276; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:50:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav4.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.108]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9ENo8jM046202 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:50:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:50:03 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by BAY9-DAV4.phx.gbl with DAV; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 23:49:26 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20041014230038.57684.qmail@web51401.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dyeing of the wool ;-) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 19:49:50 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Oct 2004 23:50:03.0009 (UTC) FILETIME=[86146710:01C4B248] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > How badly will this shrink my wool? There's really no way to know before you try dyeing a swatch. And even then, you might end up with surprises when you dye the real one. > How about an appropriate dye. Hm... I'm no expert dyer, but if I were looking for some wool dye, I'd go to http://www.dharmatrading.com/ Good luck! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 14 20:04:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9F04buL011950 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 20:04:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9F0453x016191 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 18:04:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9F03xjM053485; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 18:04:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9F03tjM053435 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 18:03:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.109] (pm7-109.eos.net [205.133.149.109]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9F03njF002979 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 20:03:52 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 19:59:07 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200410140121.i9E1LrjN087881@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 825 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Melanie wrote: > If you're willing to piece those outer corners, I find that I can do a > kirtle on somewhat less than "shoulder-to-floor times four" by placing > the bodice pieces side-by-side and reversing the direction of the > pattern pieces. In other words, the pattern was laid out with the > bodices together in the center and the skirts on the outer cut edges of > the yardage. (Clear as mud??) > I had purchased eight yards of linen for the kirtle and decided to piece > in the corner bits. I used just over half of it - I have enough left for > a jaquette for my husband. This included sleeves and gores for me - a > largish lady - but not lining, and wouldn't work if the fabric has an > obvious direction or nap. Piecing's period, and it saved me $$$. Actually, an obvious direction may not be a problem. I remember several discussions on this list about pictures of or extant medieval brocade garments that had been pieced together with NO regard to matching the pattern. Upside down pieces, etc. Anyone else remember these? Anyway, seeing that I can't cite any references, I can't say for sure. But I'm willing to bet there is plenty of precedence. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 14 21:46:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9F1koPv013780 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 21:46:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9F1k63x023823 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 19:46:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9F1jwjM004969; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 19:45:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9F1jIjM004580 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 19:45:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.144.189]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i9F1j4wY031417 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:45:05 +1000 Message-ID: <00ab01c4b258$786a11e0$bd90d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "historic costume" Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:44:09 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] New(ish) Tudor/Elizabethan webpage X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi everyone, I've launched a webpage on my costuming efforts (I set it up about a month ago but I just realised I hadn't advertised it here), I haven't got a lot of information there at the moment, just one page on my own costumes plus an analysis of the Simplicity Shakespeare in Love pattern. Well here it is http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ comments and critiques are most welcome. Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole in OR in Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra, Australia ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 14 22:03:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9F23VsN014082 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:03:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9F22v3x026317 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 20:02:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9F22njM013367; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 20:02:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web51308.mail.yahoo.com (web51308.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9F22kjM013299 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 20:02:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elvestoorder@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20041015020241.41258.qmail@web51308.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.237.35.8] by web51308.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 19:02:41 PDT Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 19:02:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Ann Catelli Subject: Re: [h-cost] TimeLine To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <416ECE3A.9040106@reddawn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Julie wrote: >>American Colonial 1492-1775 >>American Revolution 1775-1800 >>Neo Classical Period 1800-1825 Federalist is the period in American history from the mid 1780's to , maybe 1820-30's. Has some rough correspondence to: 1) the English late Georgian and Regency (by another George), and 2) the French Revolution, Directoire, and Empire. Ann in CT _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 14 22:23:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9F2N6G2014461 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:23:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9F2MX3x028197 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 20:22:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9F2MWjM023054; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 20:22:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.204]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9F2MTjM023024 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 20:22:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from athurman@gmail.com) DomainKeys-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=n8d1Do2URUqXiC5/BOvvN8jy/YPcAJLcooorDL7AVLUQUfQktoss5+8kuZRuG16aDAFP4iRL4DzMgQGRT96SXGsy9E83dL30ox/Xk2cCXjoi55fUnsd8MOQjJAG7R8t5/Fe627tkbm/pi4FMTIXGAe5eDGCGVhBpgIBSsRaVlIc Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 78so2133rnl for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 19:22:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.163.78 with SMTP id l78mr3874471rne; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 19:22:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.164.21 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 19:22:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7d21ac1904101419225ca6e2e6@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:22:28 -0400 From: "A. Thurman" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: time lines X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As Teddy pointed out, "Civil War" is a vaguely defined historical period - it could be English, American, etc. It's also worth noting that the same time period in different countries might have yielded very different styles (I'm thinking, say, 1520's northern Italy vs. 1520s England, for example). The listings seem to be very England/American biased - and I'm an American! How do other folks slice it up? Allison T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 14 22:23:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9F2Nlsx014473 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:23:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9F2IE3x027906 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 20:18:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9F2IBjM020937; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 20:18:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav21.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.125]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9F2I6jM020853 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 20:18:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 19:18:00 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by bay9-dav21.bay9.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 02:17:28 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 825 Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:17:52 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Oct 2004 02:18:00.0972 (UTC) FILETIME=[31C20CC0:01C4B25D] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Actually, an obvious direction may not be a problem. I remember several > discussions on this list about pictures of or extant medieval brocade > garments that had been pieced together with NO regard to matching the > pattern. Upside down pieces, etc. Anyone else remember these? Anyway, seeing > that I can't cite any references, I can't say for sure. But I'm willing to > bet there is plenty of precedence. I remember seeing numerous examples of this. I think I've seen more examples of mismatched patterns than matched patterns! Don't ask where, though... I don't collect them, they're just things I happened to notice when browsing for other things. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 15 00:21:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9F4LjWC015961 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 00:21:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9F4KW3x007374 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:20:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9F4KFjM082963; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:20:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9F4KDjM082879 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:20:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (c-24-21-147-231.client.comcast.net [24.21.147.231]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i9F4K4X07548 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 00:20:04 -0400 Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 21:17:31 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: Althea Turner To: Costume Historical Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <2202BCFC-1E61-11D9-BE68-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] a list of extant clothing (pre-Renn) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings all, Working on this paper I began to wonder if there is a list of extant archaeological clothing any where. It would be groovy to be able to compare with other existing garments. I found a couple web sites that are very good, but know the list isn't exhaustive. I bet that if we pooled our knowledge we could come up with a fairly comprehensive list. I would be willing to compile it and to put on my web site so people can download it. Anyone interested? If so contact me privately and we can work on a format to normalize the submissions. Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com I think, therefore I'm dangerous. I'll be Post-Feminist in a Post-Patriarchy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 15 00:23:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9F4N2Dg015987 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 00:23:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9F4MY3x007488 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:22:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9F4MWjM084058; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:22:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9F4MLjM083928 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:22:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D82F34326 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 21:01:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041014194951.00b15670@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 19:50:28 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII and Tudor sleeves In-Reply-To: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3BB5@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx .ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:10 AM 10/14/2004 +0100, you wrote: >- Jerkin (in this case U-fronted) (Could be sleeveless, short-sleeved or >have complete sleeves of its own)with bases Ah, so that's a jerkin in this time period. More familiar with jerkins in Elizabethan styles. Thanks for the clarification of terms. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 15 00:24:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9F4OvaA016008 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 00:24:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9F4Ns3x007551 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:23:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9F4NsjM084678; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:23:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9F4MTjM084021 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:22:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id D41D934329 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 21:01:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041014201253.02960a80@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 20:32:01 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII and Tudor sleeves In-Reply-To: <002401c4b1d0$a2f8e130$f6d4adcb@michaela> References: <416D30D7.3080203@reddawn.net> <5.2.1.1.0.20041013183107.00b15678@64.87.54.245> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i9F4MTjM084021 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:31 PM 10/14/2004 +1300, you wrote: >Ooooh I just found another version of this image, and I think I get what you >mean now.. The 2nd opening is like an upside down T. Perhaps more like an >anchor, as it seems to be curved... Yes, that's the opening. I may scan this image and detail the section so people can see it better. I already have plans on scanning a lot more images, I just have other costume stuff I have to do first for November, so image scanning in general will be the winter project. >The image is in the Master's of the German Art, Hans Holbein book. Page 106 >if you have it. It might be in the Web Gallery of Art if it's in this >book... >http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/h/holbein/hans_y/1535h/06henry8.html >Though my image isn't quite so cropped. I have the book, and it has the same opening as the red velvet great coat image of Henry. Same dimple in the sleeve puff as well. And in the same book is the portrait of Charles de Solier, Lord of Morette, #95 on page 103. It's another front on shot, but you can make out some possible sleeve openings, as defined by the fur lines. >I think so.. I just found an image in a book (that I have overdue from the >library.. eek;) ) and it shows a young boy in a hanging sleeve like this. Which young boy would that be an image of? Is it Edward? If so, which image of him? My book has several. >The end just tapers to a much narrower opening than a working sleeve would. >In the Henry image I do see fur poking out at the bottom of the sleeve. >Perhaps in your larger image it doesn't show thie? Looking closely I see fur at the edge of both the sleeve and the hem of the great coat. However not seeing an actual opening, I am not sure if there is an opening or not. My friend who plays Henry wasn't too clear when I spoke with him last night. He loves to create his wonderful costumes, but he isn't into speculation on portraits as I can be. >There is a name for a skirted man's doublet type outfit in Spain.. but I >suspect it's a different kettle of fish... Is that the cassock? That is what Alcega calls it, but that's later in the century. >I think Boucher (well the translation) uses the term waistcoat, which I >think is a loose translation of the French he would have used;) Camisole is >used to describe the heavy sleeved doublet worn under Spanish women's >dresses;) And you can't say it was a correct term: > NOUN: 1. A woman's sleeveless undergarment, now usually worn under a >sheer blouse. 2. A short negligee. > ETYMOLOGY: French (from Italian camiciola, diminutive of camicia, >shirt) or from Old Provençal camisolla, diminutive of camisa, shirt, both >from Late Latin Hmmmm.... camicia, which I understand is that big flowing italian chemise, yes? >So if anything it's the shift.... > >It's all very interesting:) > >michaela >http://costumes.glittersweet.com Very interesting indeed. Thank you. Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 15 00:25:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9F4PkX3016023 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 00:25:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9F4PB3x007653 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:25:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9F4PBjM085324; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:25:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9F4MTjM084024 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:22:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAD1911BBE for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 21:01:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041014194756.028e09e0@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 19:49:11 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII and Tudor sleeves In-Reply-To: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3BB5@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx .ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:10 AM 10/14/2004 +0100, you wrote: >Naturally, he would have his braes, tunk-hose and lower-hose on his >lower half... > >Teddy Hi Teddy, I know I have heard of braes before, but I am not picturing this in my mind, at least with regards to Tudor wear. Trunk hose and lower hose, that I understand. So, would you mind describing braes in this context for me, please? Thank you. Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 15 00:28:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9F4SFAY016065 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 00:28:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9F4QU3x007726 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:26:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9F4QSjM085966; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:26:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9F4MUjM084034 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:22:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC6AB11A30 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 21:01:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041014195033.029617e8@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 20:10:41 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII and Tudor sleeves In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20041014112017.01457ee0@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3BB5@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx .ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:23 AM 10/14/2004 +0100, you wrote: >I found that the doublet with attached sleeves needed a skirt so it did >not ride up when he raised his arms. I also made the bases from a pair of >half circle, but felt that there needed to be more material in them for >cartridge pleats, and would probably make it 3/4 circles if I had to make >another. > >Suzi Hi Suzi I created my husband's base from the two pairs of half circles, but I followed another person's directions for what she called "organ pleats", which are not the same as cartridge pleats as I know them (Norris noting otherwise). I did them as an experiment in how this type of pleats would look using a non-wool base. Basically the organ pleats are sewn in pleats, with darts radiating from the center at about 3/8" down the length of the pleat, and they are taped beneath to hold out the puff of the pleat. There is evidence of this in an image of an extant base that I have a photo of (don't recall which book). I had learned this technique from a person who did German waffenrocks, and it does seem to match closer the look of the bases that Henry wears, even the image of his fool appears to be in a base with this type of pleat. It is very clear with Holbein's different works that this is a similar treatment to the German's garments. To clarify, the pleats appear to be narrower at the waist, and radiate out at the hem (which appears wider). Cartridge pleats don't give the same effect, and box pleats give a similar effect (maybe even better), but they are the same width at the waist and at the hem. But it is a pain in the behind in terms of time and accuracy. If I did this again, I would stiffen the velvet base itself with either cotton batting or hair canvas or something to give more puff. The original is noted as having been quilted as well, but I took that to mean the flat portions that have the obvious quilt lines. I think when done in heavy wool, as the waffenrock was done, the pleats are firmer in its position. However, I think I will try box pleating on the circle or gored skirt to see if the effect is closer to the portraits I have. Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 15 01:20:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9F5K7MO016980 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 01:20:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9F5JQ3x011228 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Oct 2004 23:19:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9F5JJjM011293; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 23:19:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9F5JFjM011255 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 23:19:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA31842 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 00:28:00 -0500 Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 00:27:59 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] a list of extant clothing (pre-Renn) In-Reply-To: <2202BCFC-1E61-11D9-BE68-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 14 Oct 2004, Althea Turner wrote: > Working on this paper I began to wonder if there is a list of extant > archaeological clothing any where. It would be groovy to be able to > compare with other existing garments. I found a couple web sites that > are very good, but know the list isn't exhaustive. I bet that if we > pooled our knowledge we could come up with a fairly comprehensive > list. Heather Rose Jones, on this list, will probably have something to say here. She's been working on such a list for quite some years now, focusing on (IIRC) pre-1600 garments. The project has ended up rather larger than she anticipated when she started, but I'll let her tell you about that ;-) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 15 02:20:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9F6KRgJ024469 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 02:20:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9F6K13x014644 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Oct 2004 00:20:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9F6JsjM040276; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 00:19:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net (bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.119]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9F6JpjM040252 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 00:19:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from heather.jones@earthlink.net) Received: from h-67-101-45-53.snfccasy.dynamic.covad.net ([67.101.45.53] helo=[10.0.1.2]) by bittern.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CILRO-00024g-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 23:19:50 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <2202BCFC-1E61-11D9-BE68-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> References: <2202BCFC-1E61-11D9-BE68-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 23:17:14 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] a list of extant clothing (pre-Renn) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 9:17 PM -0700 10/14/04, Althea Turner wrote: >Greetings all, > >Working on this paper I began to wonder if there is a list of extant >archaeological clothing any where. It would be groovy to be able to >compare with other existing garments. I found a couple web sites >that are very good, but know the list isn't exhaustive. I bet that >if we pooled our knowledge we could come up with a fairly >comprehensive list. I would be willing to compile it and to put on >my web site so people can download it. > >Anyone interested? If so contact me privately and we can work on a >format to normalize the submissions. I've been working on exactly this topic for the last 20 years. My list is not only not yet comprehensive ... I'm still finding new stuff faster than I can hunt down the references and catalog them. My primary coverage only goes up to 1500, although I include a few later pieces that are of personal interest for one reason or another. (My earliest material is from the Iceman.) Currently my database contains 865 entries, although this doesn't precisely correspond to the number of distinct garments included since some records cover multiple garments. (My standard joke is that I've cataloged 2000 garments but 1000 of them are King Tut's loincloths. This isn't true of course -- only about 250 of them are King Tut's loincloths.) I've also chosen not to cover ecclesiastical vestments exhaustively. Since I'm primarily interested in evidence for garment construction, I hit my limit in how many semi-circular copes I really cared to keep track of. I also suspect that it's unrealistic to try to cover Coptic tunics exhaustively since everybody and his brother seems to have a few in their private museum. I _know_ that my list isn't comprehensive, because I keep regularly finding not simply individual garments but entire categories of garments that I hadn't included previously. I working on getting the database in shape for interactive web access -- both for people who want to search for things and so that people can check to see whether I've included something they know about (and tell me if I don't). I've finally done the smart thing and hired someone to help me set up the site, but at the moment my own time is being taken up by a book project that landed in my lap a month ago. (Baby names ... why did it have to be baby names?) Heather -- **** Heather Rose Jones heather.jones@earthlink.net **** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 15 02:49:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9F6nd62000443 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 02:49:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9F6mp3x016466 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Oct 2004 00:48:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9F6mkjM054278; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 00:48:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9F6mijM054192 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 00:48:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (c-24-21-147-231.client.comcast.net [24.21.147.231]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i9F6mbi03963 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 02:48:38 -0400 Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 23:46:02 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] a list of extant clothing (pre-Renn) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ok, I'm not going to ask about the loin cloths. :D I know there will be great interest in this when you do get it out there. One of the greatest challenges in working on this paper has been finding garments with which to compare the Bathilde and Bertille garments. I still am looking for comparable garments, but then I've only been working on the topic for a few months. Having a database like yours will be wonderful. Thank you! Althea On Thursday, October 14, 2004, at 11:17 PM, Heather Rose Jones wrote: > I've been working on exactly this topic for the last 20 years. My > list is not only not yet comprehensive ... I'm still finding new stuff > faster than I can hunt down the references and catalog them. My > primary coverage only goes up to 1500, although I include a few later > pieces that are of personal interest for one reason or another. (My > earliest material is from the Iceman.) Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com I think, therefore I'm dangerous. I'll be Post-Feminist in a Post-Patriarchy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 15 04:09:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9F89Jv4024705 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 04:09:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9F88h3x028382 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Oct 2004 02:08:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9F88YjM091609; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 02:08:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9F88QjM091454 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 02:08:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f8b.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.139]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 8CB46262878 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:08:13 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <004f01c4b28e$271f4f40$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:08:28 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] timelines X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, You asked:The listings seem to be very England/American biased - and I'm an American! How do other folks slice it up? Here in Denmark we split it up like this: Ancient Egypt: 3000-500 Ancient Greece: 700-150 Etruskian Period: 1000-300 Rome 700BC-476 Byzantine: 300-1450 Roman Medieval 800-1200 Gothic Medieval 1200-1480 Italian Renaissance: 1480-1510 German Renaissance: 1510-1550 Spanish Renaissance: 1550-1600 Baroque: 1620-1715 Rčgence: 1715-1730 Rococo: 1730-1770 Louix XVI: 1770-1795 Directoire: 1795-1804 Empire: 1800-1820 Biedermeier: 1820-1835 New Rococo: 1835-1870 Style Mixing Period: 1870-1890 Jugendstyle: 1890-1910 Funktionalism: 1920-1940 Our time: 1940- Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 15 04:19:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9F8JWFL029069 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 04:19:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9F8Ix3x000287 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Oct 2004 02:18:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9F8IujM096087; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 02:18:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9F8IrjM095917 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 02:18:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i9F8IFa14672.; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:18:15 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:18:15 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:17:45 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Time line problem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, we run into the problem of whether to talk about strict historical periods or stylistic ones. The Regent became King in 1820 but the most conspicuous change in fashion didn't come till the 1830s. I, too, think of "Empire line" dresses as synonymous with Regency, but of course there was another French empire under Napoleon III (1860s?) The "English" Civil Wars (a convenient term, though they also involved Wales and Scotland) happened off and on between 1642 and 1651. There's also "Restoration" , 1660- ? (Charles II died 1685; perhaps Nicole can tell us when the next major stylistic change took place?) Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> audreybmorin2@hotmail.com 14/10/2004 21:21:38 >>> > Regency 1812-1830 > >Empire 1820-1840 > >American Civil War Era 1861-1865 > And that is sticky, because, strictly speaking, the English regency ended in > 1820 (21?) And there was the French Regency in the 18th century. Also, the > French Empire was, of course, 1804-1815, even though the Empire style in > decorative arts is later. > > Not real simple, is it? Ah, so I was right, in some way at least. I didn't dare bring it up because I'm not good enough with timelines :-) but to me Empire is somewhere around 1800-1820, because when I think of Empire dresses I see Josephine-style dresses, and that's around those years. But even in literature classes, my teachers didn't dare put a definite date on time periods. We talked mostly about currents, or whatever you call them usually. In clothing, I guess you would call that a fashion style. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 15 06:52:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9FAqYBt020947 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 06:52:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FAps3x008565 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Oct 2004 04:51:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FApfjM066720; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 04:51:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FApZjN066653 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 04:51:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i9FAmXTA030356 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 06:48:33 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 06:48:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <416FABB5.3030702@thibault.org> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 06:51:33 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] timelines References: <004f01c4b28e$271f4f40$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <004f01c4b28e$271f4f40$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Jugendstyle: 1890-1910 Could you give us a literal-into-English translation of this term? > Our time: 1940- But that's 64 years, now! :) Post-60s fashion is quite a different thing than earlier. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent (8.) The "independent and non-partisan" Commission on Presidential Debates is neither independent nor non-partisan. Walter Cronkite called CPD-sponsored debates an 'unconscionable fraud.' -- Connie Rice, NPR _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 15 07:03:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9FB3qOj021114 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 07:03:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FB273x009158 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Oct 2004 05:02:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FB21jM071844; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 05:02:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from oldntserver.stoneage.mglarc.com ([212.17.54.27]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FB1pjM071658 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 05:01:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lstrid@mglarc.com) Received: by rfc1918.space.should.not.be.used.on.publicips with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) id ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:01:35 +0100 Message-ID: <87A506E53AFF4C4CB2C565044BA209E7C108D1@rfc1918.space.should.not.be.used.on.publicips> From: Lena Strid To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] timelines Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:01:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -----Original Message----- From: Cynthia Virtue [mailto:cvirtue+dated+1113389313.87fd26@thibault.org] Sent: 15 October 2004 11:52 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] timelines >Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >> Jugendstyle: 1890-1910 > >Could you give us a literal-into-English translation of this term? Jugend is German for 'youth'. I believe the equivalent term in English is Art Nouveau. /Lena ================================================= Margaret Gowen & Co. Ltd. Archaeological Consultants & Project Managers 2 Killiney View Tel: 01-2300433 Albert Road Lower Fax: 01-2300865 Glenageary e-mail: archaeology@mglarc.com Co. Dublin website: http://www.mglarc.com ================================================= CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email is private and confidential and may contain legally privileged information. If you are not named above as an addressee it may be unlawful for you to read, copy, distribute, disclose or otherwise use the information in this email. If you are not the intended recipient of this email please contact our systems administrator. Thank you. NOTE Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company or its associated companies unless otherwise specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 15 08:05:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9FC5LIm022197 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 08:05:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FC4m3x012622 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Oct 2004 06:04:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FC4djM001985; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 06:04:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FC4ajM001912 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 06:04:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m46.in-tch.com [216.166.191.46]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i9FC3Gc22478 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 06:03:16 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <416FBDDF.7080407@in-tch.com> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 06:09:03 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: time lines References: <7d21ac1904101419225ca6e2e6@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <7d21ac1904101419225ca6e2e6@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I slice it along the lines with which I'm most familiar. Being a modestly-educated, primarily english-speaking american, that means a wierd mix of English and American histories, with odd tangential bits from other cultures, so that it's sort of a "hairy" time line, with the hairs being, ferinstance, a permanent mental note that the Florentines were doing X in 1520 while the English were doing Y, and the .... I like to use history and costume to reinforce each other (oh, look, french influence in italian clothes....oh, that's right, that's after the invasion....or "anglo" styles in the english-speaking pale around historical Dublin, or whatever). --sue "what the hey, it works for me " clemenger A. Thurman wrote: > As Teddy pointed out, "Civil War" is a vaguely defined historical > period - it could be English, American, etc. It's also worth noting > that the same time period in different countries might have yielded > very different styles (I'm thinking, say, 1520's northern Italy vs. > 1520s England, for example). > > The listings seem to be very England/American biased - and I'm an > American! How do other folks slice it up? > > Allison T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 15 08:08:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9FC8HUV022254 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 08:08:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FC7m3x012897 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Oct 2004 06:07:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FC7mjM003402; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 06:07:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FC7jjM003382 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 06:07:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m46.in-tch.com [216.166.191.46]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i9FC6Uc23284 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 06:06:30 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <416FBEA1.7010803@in-tch.com> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 06:12:17 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] a list of extant clothing (pre-Renn) References: <2202BCFC-1E61-11D9-BE68-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> In-Reply-To: <2202BCFC-1E61-11D9-BE68-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'd strongly recommend Marc Carlson's website, if you haven't found it already. I don't recall that he does much with non-European-based cultures, if you wanted a world-wide list, but it is pretty darned good! Especially since you can then add in "known" bits like liturgical/ecclesiastical garments that show up in other sources. --sue Althea Turner wrote: > Greetings all, > > Working on this paper I began to wonder if there is a list of extant > archaeological clothing any where. It would be groovy to be able to > compare with other existing garments. I found a couple web sites that > are very good, but know the list isn't exhaustive. I bet that if we > pooled our knowledge we could come up with a fairly comprehensive list. > I would be willing to compile it and to put on my web site so people > can download it. > > Anyone interested? If so contact me privately and we can work on a > format to normalize the submissions. > > Althea Turner > *** althea@alfalfapress.com > *** http://www.alfalfapress.com > > I think, therefore I'm dangerous. > > I'll be Post-Feminist in a Post-Patriarchy > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 15 08:11:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9FCBCKS022290 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 08:11:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FCAd3x013037 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Oct 2004 06:10:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FCAWjM004720; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 06:10:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FCARjM004606 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 06:10:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m46.in-tch.com [216.166.191.46]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i9FC97c24214 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 06:09:08 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <416FBF3E.2010004@in-tch.com> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 06:14:54 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] a list of extant clothing (pre-Renn) References: <2202BCFC-1E61-11D9-BE68-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yeah, but are they at least *Welsh* baby names? --sue Heather Rose Jones wrote: > I working on getting the database in shape for interactive web access -- > both for people who want to search for things and so that people can > check to see whether I've included something they know about (and tell > me if I don't). I've finally done the smart thing and hired someone to > help me set up the site, but at the moment my own time is being taken up > by a book project that landed in my lap a month ago. (Baby names ... why > did it have to be baby names?) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 15 09:08:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9FD86cQ023302 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:08:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FD7M3x016017 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Oct 2004 07:07:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FD7GjM033289; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 07:07:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FD7CjM033192 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 07:07:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-8.13) id AB771FE500C8; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:07:03 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.111 ([209.131.81.111] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 15 Oct 04 13:07:00 -0000 Message-ID: <004201c4b2b8$e1e4a080$6f5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200410141554.i9EFs6jM089031@net.indra.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Time line problem Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:14:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This division works well, I think, but I question the long period of the "Edwardian years". Since Edward died in about the first decade of the 20th C, the return of the 'classical' columnar line of the fashions from about 1912 to the beginning of the War (WW1) and the sort of return of the romantic line of the second quarter of the 19th c do not continue the frou-frou of the "Mauve Decade' that I think of as Edwardian. Only my point of view. Kathleen (----- Original Message ----- From: To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 11:53 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Time line problem > Sorry, didn't mean to ruffle any feathers. The only reason I stated that > was because in my research, the Civil War era clothing that I've seen is all > American -- kind of like how all Elizabethan clothing is assumed to be > English. > > I did some research last night because this interests me and found this > information so far: > > Ancient Egyptian 3300 BC-30 BC > Ancient Roman 30BC - 476 CE > Byzantine 330 - 1453 > Dark Ages 400-1000 > Early Gothic 1000-1200 > Medieval Europe 1200-1450 > Italian Renaissance 1420-1600 > Tudor > - Henry VII 1485-1509 > - Henry VIII 1509-1547 > - Edward VI 1547-1553 > - Marian 1553-1558 > - Elizabethan 1558-1603 > Jacobean 1603-1625 > Baroque 1620-1750 > Georgian 1720-1812 > American Colonial 1492-1775 > American Revolution 1775-1800 > Neo Classical Period 1800-1825 > Regency 1812-1830 > Empire 1820-1840 > American Civil War Era 1861-1865 > Victorian Era 1837-1901 > Edwardian Era 1901-1919 > > Anyone who has different info on dates, or different/more time periods, etc. > please fill in. Hope this is helping whoever posted the original question. > > Becky > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On > Behalf Of Teddy > Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 3:18 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: RE: [h-cost] Time line problem > > > > Also, the Civil War era pertains only to American styles. > > No! - The AMERICAN Civil War era pertains only to American styles - > other countries had Civil War eras of their own (like the ENGLISH Civil > War era which is 17th century... Typically, however, websites and books > by americans refer to "THE" Civil War, meaning the American one because, > *of course* it's the American one so there's no need to qualify it by > stating the country or actual period. > > Sorry, pet-peeve of mine. > > Teddy > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 15 09:23:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9FDNLUV023359 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:23:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FDMX3x016991 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Oct 2004 07:22:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FDMTjM040932; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 07:22:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FDMQjM040859 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 07:22:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-8.13) id AF0B63B00B0; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:22:19 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.111 ([209.131.81.111] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 15 Oct 04 13:22:18 -0000 Message-ID: <006401c4b2bb$04bf7060$6f5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <11.35efb2be.2ea02cc6@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Time line problem Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:29:37 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO But I think that it is great that the events of world history get remembered, even if we apply them to our own National events. And when we try to fathom the clothing and other cultural changes of other 'National' events, we begin to be "Doing History" and not merely trying to mirror it. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 3:25 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Time line problem > In a message dated 10/14/2004 12:47:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, > suzi@suziclarke.co.uk writes: > Regency 1812-1830 > >Empire 1820-1840 > >American Civil War Era 1861-1865 > And that is sticky, because, strictly speaking, the English regency ended in > 1820 (21?) And there was the French Regency in the 18th century. Also, the > French Empire was, of course, 1804-1815, even though the Empire style in > decorative arts is later. > > Not real simple, is it? > > Ann Wass > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 15 09:34:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9FDYrce023455 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:34:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FDYF3x017895 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Oct 2004 07:34:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FDYBjM047542; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 07:34:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FDY8jM047483 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 07:34:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-8.13) id A1C910B800CC; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:34:01 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.111 ([209.131.81.111] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 15 Oct 04 13:34:00 -0000 Message-ID: <009401c4b2bc$a702f080$6f5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <004f01c4b28e$271f4f40$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] timelines Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:41:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you! I think that we are beginning to get a nice picture of how our individual regional History gets taught! Now all we have to do is take all these National lists and put them on a very large piece of paper so that we can tell at a glance what was going on in the rest of the world. This could help to translate the sometimes confusing ideas we have about all these clothing differences that we see happening during the same time periods. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 4:08 AM Subject: [h-cost] timelines > Hi, You asked:The listings seem to be very England/American biased - and I'm > an > American! How do other folks slice it up? > > Here in Denmark we split it up like this: > > Ancient Egypt: 3000-500 > Ancient Greece: 700-150 > Etruskian Period: 1000-300 > Rome 700BC-476 > Byzantine: 300-1450 > Roman Medieval 800-1200 > Gothic Medieval 1200-1480 > Italian Renaissance: 1480-1510 > German Renaissance: 1510-1550 > Spanish Renaissance: 1550-1600 > Baroque: 1620-1715 > Rčgence: 1715-1730 > Rococo: 1730-1770 > Louix XVI: 1770-1795 > Directoire: 1795-1804 > Empire: 1800-1820 > Biedermeier: 1820-1835 > New Rococo: 1835-1870 > Style Mixing Period: 1870-1890 > Jugendstyle: 1890-1910 > Funktionalism: 1920-1940 > Our time: 1940- > > Bjarne > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 15 10:58:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9FEwfwG024968 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:58:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FEw13x026131 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Oct 2004 08:58:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FEvmjM003723; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 08:57:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web50605.mail.yahoo.com (web50605.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.92]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9FEvkjM003629 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 08:57:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Message-ID: <20041015145740.35013.qmail@web50605.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.49.146.76] by web50605.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:57:40 EDT Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:57:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Kathy Page Subject: Re: [h-cost] a list of extant clothing To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200410150650.i9F6oSjM055046@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Heather, You might be the right person to ask this question of.. in hopes you have come across the items I did. Since your catalogue tends to predate these Italian camicias (I believe) but perhaps you might recognize them and could hopefully head me in the right direction for better information. I found them in a pdf version of the book "Old Italian Lace", photos can be found in these pdf's: http://www.cs.arizona.edu/patterns/weaving/books/re_lace_02.pdf scroll down to page three to: "No. 26 - Shirt of white linen with embroidery and bobbin-lace edging in coloured silk and gold. Ciccoline, Macerata." page 10: "No. 34 - Shirt, embroidered in curl stitch and drawn work; the seams are hidden with small instertions of ivory stitch. XVI century, Binney, Florence." http://www.cs.arizona.edu/patterns/weaving/books/re_lace_05.pdf scroll to page 6 "No. 117 - XVII century. Original shirt with neck and shoulder ornaments in reticello. The smaller insertions are bobbin-made (Abruzzi). Chieti Exhibition, 1906." This one is undoubtedly female- scroll down to page 10 "Original shirts with reticello. Nos. 163, 164 - Civic Museum, Milan." http://www.cs.arizona.edu/patterns/weaving/books/re_lace_07.pdf page 19 "Two original shirts. No. 218 - with reticello instertion and and edging, the seams hidden with ivory-stitch. no. 219, 220 - With reticello instertions and edging, seams hidden with bobbin-insertion. Ciccolini, Macerata." Do these seem at all familiar to you? Any clues on how to track them down? Thanks for any help you can provide. Kathy ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 15 11:11:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9FFBeea025223 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:11:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FFAX3x027481 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:10:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FFATjM013876; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:10:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from indirectobject.com (066-241-084-045.bus.ashlandfiber.net [66.241.84.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FFARjM013803 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:10:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rreed@indirectobject.com) Message-Id: <200410151510.i9FFARjM013803@net.indra.com> Received: from synergy ([192.168.1.1]) by indirectobject.com (WWW [192.168.1.200]) (MDaemon.PRO.v6.8.5.R) with ESMTP id 34-md50000000001.tmp for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 08:09:27 -0700 From: To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] timelines Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 08:09:37 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <004f01c4b28e$271f4f40$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Thread-Index: AcSyjn1F4TwBTx0wRFySY05oUGC5AQAObaqw X-Spam-Processed: WWW, Fri, 15 Oct 2004 08:09:27 -0700 (not processed: message from valid local sender) X-MDRemoteIP: 192.168.1.1 X-Return-Path: rreed@indirectobject.com X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i9FFARjM013803 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne added some time periods I hadn't seen since Art History class, but are definitely valid when it comes to historical fashion, art, and architecture. Maybe that's why this can be so difficult to pin down; because the time period not only affects clothing, but other "artistic" elements as well. I am compiling all of these, maybe for a future website, and I think I'll keep all of the dates loose. The dates I came up with were just from using Google and doing a search through history-related websites from universities. This is a great conversation! Becky >Here in Denmark we split it up like this: Ancient Egypt: 3000-500 Ancient Greece: 700-150 Etruskian Period: 1000-300 Rome 700BC-476 Byzantine: 300-1450 Roman Medieval 800-1200 Gothic Medieval 1200-1480 Italian Renaissance: 1480-1510 German Renaissance: 1510-1550 Spanish Renaissance: 1550-1600 Baroque: 1620-1715 Rčgence: 1715-1730 Rococo: 1730-1770 Louix XVI: 1770-1795 Directoire: 1795-1804 Empire: 1800-1820 Biedermeier: 1820-1835 New Rococo: 1835-1870 Style Mixing Period: 1870-1890 Jugendstyle: 1890-1910 Funktionalism: 1920-1940 Our time: 1940- Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 15 11:31:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9FFVDjc025603 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:31:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FFTI3x029690 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:29:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FFSLjM028096; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:28:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FFSCjM027970 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:28:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f8b.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.139]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id E1F475EE06E for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 17:28:06 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001501c4b2cb$9c8a96d0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <004f01c4b28e$271f4f40$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <416FABB5.3030702@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] timelines Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 17:28:20 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Cynthia, Well oops, you are right, i didnt think of this, something is missing between 1940 and now. Jugendstyle also known as Art Nuveao was called jugend style in Germany and Denmark. It could be translated to something like the young ones style. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia Virtue" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 12:51 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] timelines > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > Jugendstyle: 1890-1910 > > Could you give us a literal-into-English translation of this term? > > > Our time: 1940- > > But that's 64 years, now! :) Post-60s fashion is quite a different > thing than earlier. > > -- > Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent > > (8.) The "independent and non-partisan" Commission on Presidential > Debates is neither independent nor non-partisan. Walter Cronkite called > CPD-sponsored debates an 'unconscionable fraud.' -- Connie Rice, NPR > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 15 12:03:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9FG3tmQ026227 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:03:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FG373x006161 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:03:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FG2wjM056571; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:02:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tin.wightman.ca (tin.wightman.ca [216.249.0.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FG2sjM056395 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:02:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lgsteph@wightman.ca) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by tin.wightman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E74E3398A for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:02:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d7k7b6 (unknown [142.46.141.52]) by tin.wightman.ca (Postfix) with SMTP id 71D003398E for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:02:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001f01c4b2d1$0b344360$6400a8c0@wightman.ca> From: "Five Rivers" To: References: <200410151531.i9FFVEjN030504@net.indra.com> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:06:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Embroidery happy-dance X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Okay, so not strictly costume, but sort of costume for the wall. :-) Just finished the Wind embroidery of the Celtic series I've designed: Earth, Wind, Fire, Water. Images are up on the website. Direct URL is: http://www.5rivers.org/en-gb/dept_33.html and then scroll down to the third item. You can click on the 'more product information' to get a larger image. Have Water to edge and get on the frame today. Oh boy, oh boy. :-D Regards Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage fine hand-sewn embroidered garments, historical sewing patterns & embroidery supplies (519) 799-5577, http://www.5rivers.org email: info@5rivers.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 15 12:31:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9FGVRYU026719 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:31:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FGUL3x011032 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:30:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FGUFjM079560; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:30:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FGU3jM079373 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:30:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kat@redtrollforge.com) Received: from katscomputer (ip137.129.du.eli.iinet.com [67.136.129.137]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6662A330F3 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:30:00 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@redtrollforge.com To: Historical Costume Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:29:53 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Henry VIII and Tudor sleeves Message-ID: <416F9891.6057.BB0865D@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Probably the best views I've seen of this are in a manuscript > painting of Francois I and his court. > > Kat > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< > could this be the one you are thinking of: > http://www.marileecody.com/francis.jpg > Doesn't give a variety of views, but there is the back view of the > boys in front. Yep. That's the one I was thinking of. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 15 13:30:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9FHUfnW027493 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:30:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FHU73x017601 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:30:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FHTvjM030768; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:29:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from courageux.concentric.com (courageux.concentric.com [207.155.248.177]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FHTtjM030740 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:29:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) Received: (root@localhost) by courageux.concentric.com id NAA25901; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:29:54 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.17] Message-ID: <200410151729.NAA25901@courageux.concentric.com> From: Julie To: Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:29:54 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <200410151531.i9FFVEjO030504@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i9FHTtjM030740 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Time Line X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO OK. Combining Bjarne's European list with Becky's Anglocentric list plus some comments, I come up with this: Ancient Egyptian 3300 BC-30 BC Ancient Egypt: 3000-500 Etruskian Period: 1000-300 Ancient Greece: 700-150 BC Rome 700BC-476 CE Ancient Roman 30BC - 476 CE Byzantine 330 - 1453 Byzantine: 300-1450 Dark Ages 400-1000 Merovingian 500-751 Roman Medieval 800-1200 Carolingian 751-843 Ottonian 900-1002 Early Gothic 1000-1200 Medieval Europe 1200-1450 Gothic Medieval 1200-1480 Italian Renaissance 1420-1600 Italian Renaissance: 1480-1510 German Renaissance: 1510-1550 Spanish Renaissance: 1550-1600 Tudor - Henry VII 1485-1509 - Henry VIII 1509-1547 - Edward VI 1547-1553 - Marian 1553-1558 - Elizabethan 1558-1603 Jacobean 1603-1625 Baroque 1620-1750 Baroque: 1620-1715 Règence: 1715-1730 Rococo: 1730-1770 Georgian 1720-1812 Georgian is 1720 - 1830. American Colonial 1492-1775 Louix XVI: 1770-1795 American Revolution 1775-1800 Directoire: 1795-1804 Empire: 1800-1820 Neo Classical Period 1800-1825 Biedermeier: 1820-1835 Regency 1812-1830 Regency is 1810 - 1820 Empire 1820-1840 New Rococo: 1835-1870 Victorian Era 1837-1901 American Civil War Era 1861-1865 Style Mixing Period: 1870-1890 Jugendstyle (Art Nouveau): 1890-1910 Edwardian Era 1901-1919 Funktionalism: 1920-1940 Our time: 1940- Please comment as to which were strictly American, European, or whatever. I'd like to add annotation to this. I'm finding it very useful - even it everything is an approximation. BTW, is Etruskian the same as Etruscan? Also, I'm assuming that the years for it are BC. Thanks! Good thread. Julie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 15 13:33:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9FHXfd3027512 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:33:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FHWw3x017824 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:32:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FHWUjM032783; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:32:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell3.shore.net (shell3.shore.net [207.244.124.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FHVujN032367 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:31:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from vintage@primushost.com) Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for h-costume@indra.com id 1CIVy7-0006LM-00; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:34:19 -0400 Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:34:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Katy Bishop To: historic costume Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] costume exhibitions X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just a reminder that there are 2 very good costume exhibits in New England (I can recommend both personally) that will be ending shortly: >From June 25 through October 24, The Mark Twain House & Museum brings together for the first time clothing and accessories that helped define Twain, his family and his times, in a new exhibition, Modesty Died When Clothes Were Born: Costume in the Life and Literature of Mark Twain. Mark Twain House and Museum 351 farmington Ave, Hartfor CT, 800-247-0998 http://www.marktwainhouse.org/exhibitions/ AND The U.S. Premiere of The Lord of the Rings Motion Picture Trilogy The Exhibition is now at The Museum of Science, Boston, MA through October 24. The exhibition features hundreds of pieces of memorabilia from the epic film trilogy including original costumes and jewelry, as well as the One Ring. Immersed in film props, visitors can explore the groundbreaking technology used in the films such as computer-generated special effects and animatronics, and hear from cast, crew, and director in exclusive "behind-the-scenes" interviews shown on videos throughout the exhibit. www.mos.org for more info Katy Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 15 13:49:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9FHnwj0027711 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:49:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FHnH3x019519 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:49:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FHn9jM046811; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:49:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.201]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9FHn6jM046686 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:49:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Oct 2004 17:48:59 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041015183533.014547f0@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:47:56 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Time Line In-Reply-To: <200410151729.NAA25901@courageux.concentric.com> References: <200410151531.i9FFVEjO030504@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i9FHn6jM046686 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:29 15/10/2004 -0700, you wrote: >OK. Combining Bjarne's European list with Becky's Anglocentric list >plus some comments, I come up with this: > >Ancient Egyptian 3300 BC-30 BC Ancient Egypt: 3000-500 >Etruskian Period: 1000-300 >Ancient Greece: 700-150 BC >Rome 700BC-476 CE Ancient Roman 30BC - 476 CE >Byzantine 330 - 1453 Byzantine: 300-1450 > >Dark Ages 400-1000 > Merovingian 500-751 > Roman Medieval 800-1200 > Carolingian 751-843 > Ottonian 900-1002 > Early Gothic 1000-1200 >Medieval Europe 1200-1450 Gothic Medieval 1200-1480 There are a whole lot of purely English divisions here - Saxon, Norman etc, and I am not sure of the dates. There is also an English Renaissance, but again, I am not sure of the dates, but I think concurrent with Henry Vlll Also odd divisions like the Wars of the Roses etc. >Italian Renaissance 1420-1600 Italian Renaissance: 1480-1510 ??? >German Renaissance: 1510-1550 >Spanish Renaissance: 1550-1600 > >Tudor > - Henry VII 1485-1509 > - Henry VIII 1509-1547 > - Edward VI 1547-1553 > - Mary 1553-1558 > - Elizabeth 1558-1603 also called Elizabethan This period is known in our house as Tudorbethan, I think thanks to the Daily Telegraph newspaper! >Jacobean 1603-1625 Carolingian 1625 - 1649 English English Civil War sometimes called Puritan 1649 - 1660 English Restoration 1660- 1685 English >Baroque 1620-1750 Baroque: 1620-1715 >Règence: 1715-1730 French I think >Rococo: 1730-1770 >Georgian 1720-1812 Georgian is 1720 - 1830. >American Colonial 1492-1775 >Louix XVI: 1770-1795 >American Revolution 1775-1800 >Directoire: 1795-1804 >Empire: 1800-1820 >Neo Classical Period 1800-1825 >Biedermeier: 1820-1835 >Regency 1812-1830 Regency is 1810 - 1820 >Empire 1820-1840 Not English, but sometimes called the Romantic Era >New Rococo: 1835-1870 not English >Victorian Era 1837-1901 >American Civil War Era 1861-1865 >Style Mixing Period: 1870-1890 not English >Jugendstyle (Art Nouveau): 1890-1910 >Edwardian Era 1901-1919 >Funktionalism: 1920-1940 not English >Our time: 1940- When was Art Deco? My comments, purely personal and up to be corrected. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 15 13:56:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9FHuLuh027814 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:56:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FHth3x020335 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:55:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FHtZjM052365; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:55:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FHtTjN052261 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:55:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i9FHqQTA004438 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:52:26 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:52:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <41700F0F.7010206@thibault.org> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:55:27 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume exhibitions References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Katy Bishop wrote: > The U.S. Premiere of The Lord of the Rings Motion Picture Trilogy The > Exhibition is now at The Museum of Science, Boston, MA through October > 24. It's fun, but not NEARLY enough costumes -- just one per character, although there's lots of armor. Worth it, though, if you're nearby. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent Earlier this week former employees of Sproul & Associates (operating under the name Voters Outreach of America), a firm hired by the Republican National Committee to register voters, told a Nevada TV station that their supervisors systematically tore up Democratic registrations. -- NYT 8/15/04 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 15 14:14:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9FIEMuE028053 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:14:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FIDX3x022151 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:13:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FIDQjM067037; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:13:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:2Xs7ajU6Rbvz/pXeBr1zlE8NFob9He4Q@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FIDMjM066990 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:13:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from webmail.patriot.net (vanburen.patriot.net [209.249.176.8]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id i9FIDM6s025466 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:13:22 -0400 Received: from dci012034013204.discovery.com ([12.34.13.204]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user aquazoo) by webmail.patriot.net with HTTP; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:13:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <50114.12.34.13.204.1097864002.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20041015183533.014547f0@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> References: <200410151531.i9FFVEjO030504@net.indra.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20041015183533.014547f0@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:13:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Time Line - 20thC From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>Jugendstyle (Art Nouveau): 1890-1910 >>Edwardian Era 1901-1919 >>Funktionalism: 1920-1940 not English >>Our time: 1940- > When was Art Deco? I think of it as Jazz Age, post WWI and into the 1920s. U.S. had the Depression era. Post WWII was the New Look developed by Dior and other designers, which went into the 1950s. Late 50s/early 60s was the Eisenhower era in the US. 1950s was the beginning of the Nuclear era, although that may not be attached to fashion so much. Late 60s/early 70s was youth vs the establishment, with fashions for both. Mid 70s, the Disco era, late 70s into the 80s was Punk & New Wave, and then it starts getting blurry because we're to close to it all. 90s, the Lycra era? :-) There was a lot of fashion change in the 20thC (and probably will be in the 21st as well) so the eras are in decades rather than centuries. -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 15 14:34:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9FIYBeU028443 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:34:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FIRD3x023369 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:27:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FIR9jM077539; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:27:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FIR5jM077454 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:27:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f8b.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.139]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id ECE4647FE2B for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 20:27:01 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000c01c4b2e4$9fb0fac0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200410151729.NAA25901@courageux.concentric.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Time Line Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 20:27:19 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Julie, You asked about Etruskian is the same as Etruscan. I am all red ears here, because it was me misspelling the name. Of cause it is etruscan, Sorry........... Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 15 15:10:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9FJA6dY029138 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 15:10:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FJ9U3x029493 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:09:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FJ8HjM010277; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:08:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065d23.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065d23.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.254]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FJ7ujM009963 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:08:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hardcorps@earthlink.net) Received: from dewey.psp.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.78.219]) by pop-a065d23.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CIXQi-0001eM-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:07:56 -0700 Message-ID: <32450840.1097867275992.JavaMail.root@dewey.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:07:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Frank and Tracy Thallas To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Embroidery happy-dance Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO These are beautiful! Liadain -----Original Message----- From: Five Rivers Sent: Oct 15, 2004 9:06 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Embroidery happy-dance Okay, so not strictly costume, but sort of costume for the wall. :-) Just finished the Wind embroidery of the Celtic series I've designed: Earth, Wind, Fire, Water. Images are up on the website. Direct URL is: http://www.5rivers.org/en-gb/dept_33.html and then scroll down to the third item. You can click on the 'more product information' to get a larger image. Have Water to edge and get on the frame today. Oh boy, oh boy. :-D Regards Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage fine hand-sewn embroidered garments, historical sewing patterns & embroidery supplies (519) 799-5577, http://www.5rivers.org email: info@5rivers.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 15 15:36:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9FJaKQM029654 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 15:36:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FJZa3x003981 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:35:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FJZUjM031764; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:35:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.201]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FJZQjM031667 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:35:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Aspasia1@gmail.com) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 75so32255rnl for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:35:22 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=ECx7PFiuZYcI4Dmsws87PbiNBx0c258BbvwU5/YQEOZ6xODyn29xomd8Pvlm7q5QYkeqaNe/UIKktJvY8L7ki23juz8tLU5YguIp9LM73dc/7bXddLHvFC17On7GZbZF+EcJO7AuySTSWPRcZgT7VBXi63s5t35kYQDErBd4gqQ Received: by 10.38.208.34 with SMTP id f34mr393763rng; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:34:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.67.15 with HTTP; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:34:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4ef943ba04101512343d194989@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 15:34:42 -0400 From: Bonnie Booker To: Historical Costume Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Attifet X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am trying to find info on the 16th c. attifet...you know, the "Mary Queen of Scots hat." I found several patterns. The teardrop shape seems the most accepted one, and florest wire to shape it. I will be doing cotton velveteen lined with bridal satin. Should I inner-line it? How heavy should it be? Is there a better shape? Can anyone tell me a more authentic shape? I know there are patterns to be bought, but I have patterns. Thank you for any help you can give me. -- Aspasia Moonwind _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 15 15:44:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9FJibXk029776 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 15:44:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FJha3x005028 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:43:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FJhTjM038450; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:43:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell3.shore.net (shell3.shore.net [207.244.124.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FJhOjN038326 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:43:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from vintage@primushost.com) Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for h-costume@indra.com id 1CIY1O-0003JG-00; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 15:45:50 -0400 Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 15:45:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Katy Bishop To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume exhibitions In-Reply-To: <41700F0F.7010206@thibault.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 15 Oct 2004, Cynthia Virtue wrote: >Katy Bishop wrote: >> The U.S. Premiere of The Lord of the Rings Motion Picture Trilogy The >> Exhibition is now at The Museum of Science, Boston, MA through October >> 24. > >It's fun, but not NEARLY enough costumes -- just one per character, >although there's lots of armor. Worth it, though, if you're nearby. I agree, It was a very well put together exhibit, I liked the windows in the walls behind the mannequins to allow us to see the backs of the costumes. The detail on some on them was amazing. I did want to see more from each character though. I wish they had a catalogue of the costumes too. Don't know where the exhibit is going next. Katy Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 15 15:55:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9FJtats029943 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 15:55:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FJsU3x006245 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:54:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FJsOjM046914; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:54:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com (adsl-065-013-105-239.sip.tys.bellsouth.net [65.13.105.239]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FJsKjM046826 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:54:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i9FKEoBf005476 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:14:50 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: (from sfarmer@localhost) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3/Submit) id i9FKEnIV005475 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:14:49 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:14:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Farmer Message-Id: <200410152014.i9FKEnIV005475@sabre.goldsword.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Henry VIII and Tudor sleeves In-Reply-To: <416F9891.6057.BB0865D@localhost> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Probably the best views I've seen of this are in a manuscript > > painting of Francois I and his court. > > > > Kat > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< > > could this be the one you are thinking of: > > http://www.marileecody.com/francis.jpg > > Doesn't give a variety of views, but there is the back view of the > > boys in front. My account has been off-line (ISP "seamless transition") so I don't know if this was answered before -- and idea of who painted this painting? Thanks. Jerusha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 15 16:03:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9FK3lT9030161 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:03:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FK383x007128 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:03:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FK35jM053782; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:03:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FK33jM053750 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:03:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 683321783B for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:03:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041015124413.02a18450@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:02:57 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Attifet In-Reply-To: <4ef943ba04101512343d194989@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 03:34 PM 10/15/2004 -0400, you wrote: >I am trying to find info on the 16th c. attifet...you know, the "Mary >Queen of Scots hat." I found several patterns. The teardrop shape >seems the most accepted one, and florest wire to shape it. I will be >doing cotton velveteen lined with bridal satin. Should I inner-line >it? How heavy should it be? Is there a better shape? Can anyone >tell me a more authentic shape? I know there are patterns to be >bought, but I have patterns. Thank you for any help you can give me. >-- >Aspasia Moonwind Hello Aspasia, I love that hat, and have a couple of patterns myself. Both are teardrop shaped. You may find the bridal satin may shift on your head, as it is slippery. But it will look good. I prefer to use linen now for linings, so hats like that don't slip as much. Not quite as pretty tho. The way to make it I would suggest using a buckram form outlined in the wire. Theatrical two-ply is the better choice if you can find it. Some people prefer to make hats in general using plastic canvas, but I am not sure how well that will work for the attifet, considering the shaping of it. If you need help on construction, there are links to sites on hat making at the Costumer's Manifest. http://www.costumes.org/HISTORY/100pages/HATS.HTM Enjoy the hat once you have it. I find it one of the more flattering hats for the time period. Yet silly me will be making a Tudor gable next week (sigh, things we do for our characters). Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 15 16:23:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9FKNCib030452 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:23:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FKMK3x009939 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:22:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FKMDjM069518; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:22:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from wo-owa2003.wideorbit.com (owa.wideorbit.com [206.184.11.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FKMBjM069318 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:22:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from MUnruh-Bays@wideorbit.com) Received: from wo-exch2003.wideorbit.com ([192.168.3.20]) by wo-owa2003.wideorbit.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:21:54 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6944.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 825 Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:21:54 -0700 Message-ID: <175C4793AFE4AB4596D4C17CCC98FD96854DD1@wo-exch2003.wideorbit.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 825 Thread-Index: AcSy9JtxQvcoAc1aRs6U8A94X9qt2g== From: "Melanie Unruh-Bays" To: "Historical Costume" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Oct 2004 20:21:54.0367 (UTC) FILETIME=[9CAE9CF0:01C4B2F4] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i9FKMBjM069318 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com > [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Gail & Scott Finke > Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 5:59 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 825 > > > > Actually, an obvious direction may not be a problem. I > remember several > discussions on this list about pictures of or extant medieval brocade > garments that had been pieced together with NO regard to matching the > pattern. Upside down pieces, etc. Anyone else remember these? > Anyway, seeing > that I can't cite any references, I can't say for sure. But > I'm willing to > bet there is plenty of precedence. > It's true. I have seen, with my own little eye, a Medieval cope of red velvet that had been pieced in every-which-way, without regard to direction of nap. The person or persons who made it didn't even pay much attention to regular-sized or symmetrical piecing. Eirene _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 15 16:50:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9FKocNf030866 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:50:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FKne3x013051 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:49:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FKnYjM090708; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:49:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta205-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta205-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.187]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FKnUjM090582 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:49:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from g.trussardi@xtra.co.nz) Received: from mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.186]) by mta205-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20041015204923.PKGH13158.mta205-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 09:49:23 +1300 Received: from TRUSSARDI ([210.86.47.230]) by mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20041015204920.MBSG13668.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@TRUSSARDI> for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 09:49:20 +1300 From: "Gabriella Trussardi" To: Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 09:49:21 +1300 Message-ID: <000001c4b2f8$7368ad50$e62f56d2@TRUSSARDI> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] dyeing of the wool X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Angelique, I do a lot of dyeing and I've found the most important thing when dyeing wool is to take the temperature down VERY slowly as you rinse - if you go from dying temp to cold too quickly that's when you end up with a tragic piece of expensive dishcloth. The weave of the wool affects the shrinkage too - an open fancy weave; much more likely to shrink. A worsted; very unlikely. Also depending of the length you've got, I've had a lot of luck making my own version of a old-fashioned tenter, and stretching the fabric (on tenterhooks) from selvedge edge to selvedge edge over it as it dries. This only works (for me) for lengths up to about 3m a piece (although I could have made the tenter bigger). Acid dyes are generally the best ones for wool, but I'd probably suggest you use ProcionMX (you don't use soda ash with it for wool, add vinegar instead) and add some sodium bisulphate to help with the absorption, as it sounds like you won't do much wool dyeing on a continuing basis; and you can always use ProcionMX again on cellulose, but you might not have any other use for an acid dye. Also I've never had a problem with shrinkage on wool using Procion, whereas I had a shocker earlier this year using acid dyes on wool for cloaks in a costume shop, no matter what I tried (it was a delicate patterned open weave). Just remember, do a test piece for colour, and have fun! gabriella >Recently I bought a bit of wool flannel for a gown. It appeared on the monitor to be a lovely >Deep brown (like pumpernickle bread?) Instead it's more of a semi sweet chocolate. I'd like >to either try to dye a darker brown or perhaps a near navy. Question: How badly will this >shrink my wool? How about an appropriate dye. I really am kicking myself for not realizing >"monitor colors may vary." > >Thank you, Again > > Angelique _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 15 16:58:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9FKwTu8031005 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:58:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FKuD3x013959 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:56:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FKu8jM096044; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:56:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp101.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp101.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.36.79]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9FKsDjM094489 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:54:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nicolaa@rogers.com) Received: from unknown (HELO g5e4d0) (nicolaa@rogers.com@69.195.102.229 with login) by smtp101.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Oct 2004 20:54:05 -0000 Message-ID: <006101c4b2f9$21aec840$e566c345@g5e4d0> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200410151531.i9FFVEjO030504@net.indra.com><5.1.0.14.2.20041015183533.014547f0@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> <50114.12.34.13.204.1097864002.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Time Line - 20thC Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:54:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings-- > > When was Art Deco? > > I think of it as Jazz Age, post WWI and into the 1920s. I would say into the 30s, although you also have Art Moderne, which is an evolution of Deco, during this period. Deco tends to be a little more flowing than Moderne, although those who are not really familiar with the period tend to lump them in together. The way I would see it: Deco: Jazz Age, "flappers", Prohibition Moderne: More angular lines, bias-cut gowns, pulp fiction (Indiana Jones, Sky Captain) Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 15 16:59:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9FKxrDU031030 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:59:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FKsJ3x013789 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:54:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FKsDjM094578; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:54:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.200]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FKsBjM094539 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:54:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jacquelinejbump@gmail.com) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 78so42209rnl for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:54:11 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=renicUHvYRAeBR5kYajFi5KX0Qw+A6qbcZMcMZ4qxNRk88IX9Xqe0HS122Zs01PuKCuvbnP1Bs71ehSNm+Yfskfmfej00ejzxaM03i02L4XRlSJfVW4w6i3kP/Y+woD8OX086vGd+B87/AIMEFfYNy/IM5XkU9I7qSefr3r/6I8 Received: by 10.38.99.68 with SMTP id w68mr138795rnb; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:54:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.14.59 with HTTP; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:54:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4c5accc804101513542c1eecfd@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:54:10 -0400 From: Kristalori History To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Attifet In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20041015124413.02a18450@64.87.54.245> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <4ef943ba04101512343d194989@mail.gmail.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20041015124413.02a18450@64.87.54.245> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I also am a huge fan of this hat and have the Lynn Mcmaster's pattern that I use for the most part. My only difference in opinion with Kimiko's advice is to use plastic canvas for the hat form. Buckram is ok but the second it gets wet you have a mashed mess. No it's not period but it gives you a nice hat you can toss in the washer if it's not heavily decorated. I use just about anything for lining and always make sure to put a small comb in the inside top of the hat. This helps to hold it on. Also if your hair is thick enough (mine is shortish but really thick) don't be afraid to use hat pins to anchor the hat into small knots on your head. Bice On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:02:57 -0700, Kimiko Small wrote: > Hello Aspasia, > > I love that hat, and have a couple of patterns myself. Both are teardrop > shaped. > > You may find the bridal satin may shift on your head, as it is slippery. > But it will look good. I prefer to use linen now for linings, so hats like > that don't slip as much. Not quite as pretty tho. > > The way to make it I would suggest using a buckram form outlined in the > wire. Theatrical two-ply is the better choice if you can find it. Some > people prefer to make hats in general using plastic canvas, but I am not > sure how well that will work for the attifet, considering the shaping of it. > > If you need help on construction, there are links to sites on hat making at > the Costumer's Manifest. > http://www.costumes.org/HISTORY/100pages/HATS.HTM > > Enjoy the hat once you have it. I find it one of the more flattering hats > for the time period. Yet silly me will be making a Tudor gable next week > (sigh, things we do for our characters). > > Kimiko Small > Owner ~ DreamTime Studios > http://www.dreamtime-studios.com > Fresno, CA, USA > > "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell -- ============================ Italian Ladies 2005 Calendar http://www.lulu.com/kristalori http://kristalori.com http://snipurl.com/96f1 Dress Diaries http://snipurl.com/9bir That 70's Trailer ============================ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 15 18:11:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9FMBJcm032018 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:11:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FMAb3x021779 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:10:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FMABjM051619; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:10:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web51306.mail.yahoo.com (web51306.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.172]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9FM9rjM051299 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:09:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elvestoorder@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20041015220947.27574.qmail@web51306.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.237.35.39] by web51306.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 15:09:47 PDT Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 15:09:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Ann Catelli Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume exhibitions To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Katy Bishop wrote: > >From June 25 through October 24, The Mark Twain > House & Museum: Modesty Died When > Clothes Were Born: Costume in the Life and > Literature of Mark Twain. Thanks, Katy--I have got to make it into Hartford. Maybe this weekend. Ann in CT _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 15 18:19:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9FMJDn6032141 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:19:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FMIa3x022713 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:18:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FMIWjM057788; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:18:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ns3.linuxwebnet.com (ns3.linuxwebnet.com [216.133.76.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9FMIUjM057716 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:18:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from judymitch@oldwaylane.net) Received: (qmail 18505 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2004 22:49:12 -0000 Received: from dialup-4.249.156.13.dial1.washington2.level3.net (HELO oldwaylane.net) (4.249.156.13) by shada.com with SMTP; 15 Oct 2004 22:49:12 -0000 Message-ID: <41704ABB.2060605@oldwaylane.net> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:10:03 -0400 From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume exhibitions References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Katy Bishop wrote: > I agree, It was a very well put together exhibit, I liked the windows in > the walls behind the mannequins to allow us to see the backs of the > costumes. The detail on some on them was amazing. I did want to see > more from each character though. I wish they had a catalogue of the > costumes too. or in light of no catalog would allow cameras! > > Don't know where the exhibit is going next. it will close Oct 24 and then go to Sydney Australia. From there it will return to Houston and then to Indianapolis. Those are all the plans at this point. Considering they just added those two latter sites, there may be more added next year. -Judy Mitchell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 15 19:09:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9FN9ceU032513 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 19:09:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FN933x027496 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Oct 2004 17:09:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FN8vjM092026; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 17:08:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail10.mdx.safepages.com (mail10.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.33]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FN8sjM091965 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 17:08:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail10.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id E72D920661; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 23:08:57 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust63.tnt3.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.197.63]) by mail10.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id B44702072D for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 23:08:56 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <005601c4b30b$f45e7620$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1940s pants patterns? Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:08:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" > A losing battle, but I fight the good fight ;-) There's just so much that > comes in that I don't see in time... I keep bleach in the back room for > tests, and a marking pen in my pocket for scribbling "with lycra" on the > tags :-P What's really frustrating is seeing MANUFACTURER tags on the > bolts that don't indicate lycra content. You must be making progress, though--right after cutting my length of uninfected wool, the manager did a burn test while I watched! =} I had a really dumb moment, though; I picked up a worsted wool remnant on a whim, and gave it a quick tug (along the WARP) to check for lycra. I checked the weft later, and boom, lycra. But for my modern pants that's fine with me, and the price was appropriate for a blend even though the label was wrong. It's going to be lined in linen, anyway! > When I was searching for a vintage c. 1962 style dress, I had a great deal > of luck on eBay. Many of the sellers give you good photos of both front > and back of the envelopes, and size measurements. Certain patterns come up > over and over, so it's worth looking at the pictures even for sizes that > aren't yours and making notes on the numbers of the patterns you like, so > you'll catch them when they do appear in your size. I probably will do that; I think I've found enough details in the vintage sewing manuals I'm using in order get the look I want, but if nothing else the stuff on eBay will serve as inspiration for which details I want where. > Someday when I get a box of round tuits to spare, I intend to nail down > exactly when in the 1930-1960 range my bust shape was in fashion, and buy > some vintage jacket and dress patterns that will thus fit my figure with > less trouble. That's the motive behind my pants--turns out the 1940s are the time when my rear end was fashionable, and though my thighs weren't, at least hiding them was! Since my football player shoulders were in fashion then, too, I may have to dress 1940s a lot more often. http://www.vintagesewing.info is the source of the books I'll be using; anyone who's looking for a more modern period might really enjoy it. They have sewing manuals, pattern drafting textbooks, and similar text from the 1890s to the 1940s. (I hope all their copyright stuff is in place--I'd hate for anything to happen to this site!) -E the REALLY late answering her email _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 15 19:15:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9FNFkkk032620 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 19:15:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FNF93x028077 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Oct 2004 17:15:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FNF1jM095786; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 17:15:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.compassnet.com.au [203.26.180.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9FNEvjN095618 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 17:14:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from glendar@compassnet.com.au) Received: from mail (root@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.10/linuxconf) with SMTP id i9FNMvqE031775 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 09:22:57 +1000 Received: from glendaii ([203.26.180.173]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.10/linuxconf) with SMTP id i9FNMuLc031769 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 09:22:56 +1000 Message-ID: <052801c4b30c$82b81ca0$eaf4fea9@glendaii> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <41704ABB.2060605@oldwaylane.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume exhibitions Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 09:12:49 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sydney, Australia? I usually delete things about costume exhibitions, because I'll never get to see them, being on the opposite side of the world to Europe and Nth America. Could someone please fill me in about this exhibition? I'll have to organise an exhibition party. I don't care WHAT period it is, it'll still be exciting. Glenda. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Judy Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2004 8:10 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume exhibitions > Katy Bishop wrote: > > I agree, It was a very well put together exhibit, I liked the windows in > > the walls behind the mannequins to allow us to see the backs of the > > costumes. The detail on some on them was amazing. I did want to see > > more from each character though. I wish they had a catalogue of the > > costumes too. > or in light of no catalog would allow cameras! > > > > > > Don't know where the exhibit is going next. > > it will close Oct 24 and then go to Sydney Australia. From there it > will return to Houston and then to Indianapolis. Those are all the plans > at this point. Considering they just added those two latter sites, there > may be more added next year. > > -Judy Mitchell > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 15 20:40:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9G0eqZ8001600 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 20:40:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9G0eH3x008311 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:40:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9G0e8jM048473; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:40:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9G0e5jN048433 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:40:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i9G0b2TA007531 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 20:37:02 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 20:37:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <41706DE3.1070606@thibault.org> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 20:40:03 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <175C4793AFE4AB4596D4C17CCC98FD96854DD1@wo-exch2003.wideorbit.com> In-Reply-To: <175C4793AFE4AB4596D4C17CCC98FD96854DD1@wo-exch2003.wideorbit.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] medieval piecing X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Melanie Unruh-Bays wrote: > It's true. I have seen, with my own little eye, a Medieval cope of red > velvet that had been pieced in every-which-way, without regard to > direction of nap. The person or persons who made it didn't even pay much > attention to regular-sized or symmetrical piecing. Chicago Institute of Art? Or maybe there's two of them! Also seen there: voided velvet with gold-ground brocade, just like in some of the fancier oil paintings, fuschia silk with gold polka dots.... (http://www.virtue.to/articles/real_fabrics.html) -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent Earlier this week former employees of Sproul & Associates (operating under the name Voters Outreach of America), a firm hired by the Republican National Committee to register voters, told a Nevada TV station that their supervisors systematically tore up Democratic registrations. -- NYT 8/15/04 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 15 22:41:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9G2fIUv003146 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 22:41:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9G2ee3x020719 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Oct 2004 20:40:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9G2eUjM011223; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 20:40:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065d05.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065d05.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.249]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9G2eSjM011199 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 20:40:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from heather.jones@earthlink.net) Received: from h-69-3-239-236.snfccasy.dynamic.covad.net ([69.3.239.236] helo=[10.0.1.2]) by pop-a065d05.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CIeUe-0003mq-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 19:40:28 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <416FBF3E.2010004@in-tch.com> References: <2202BCFC-1E61-11D9-BE68-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> <416FBF3E.2010004@in-tch.com> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 19:13:11 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] a list of extant clothing (pre-Renn) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 6:14 AM -0600 10/15/04, Sue Clemenger wrote: >Yeah, but are they at least *Welsh* baby names? >--sue Only a few of them -- I'm working hard at not skewing the data too badly. It's hard enough to keep the statistics-geeking to a minimum. Heather >Heather Rose Jones wrote: > >>I working on getting the database in shape for interactive web >>access -- both for people who want to search for things and so that >>people can check to see whether I've included something they know >>about (and tell me if I don't). I've finally done the smart thing >>and hired someone to help me set up the site, but at the moment my >>own time is being taken up by a book project that landed in my lap >>a month ago. (Baby names ... why did it have to be baby names?) > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- **** Heather Rose Jones heather.jones@earthlink.net **** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 15 22:41:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9G2fxo3003151 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 22:41:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9G2fV3x020779 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Oct 2004 20:41:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9G2fUjM011730; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 20:41:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065d05.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065d05.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.249]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9G2eUjM011221 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 20:40:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from heather.jones@earthlink.net) Received: from h-69-3-239-236.snfccasy.dynamic.covad.net ([69.3.239.236] helo=[10.0.1.2]) by pop-a065d05.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CIeUf-0003mq-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 19:40:29 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <175C4793AFE4AB4596D4C17CCC98FD96854DD1@wo-exch2003.wideorbit.com> References: <175C4793AFE4AB4596D4C17CCC98FD96854DD1@wo-exch2003.wideorbit.com> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 19:20:32 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] medieval piecing X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 1:21 PM -0700 10/15/04, Melanie Unruh-Bays wrote: > > -----Original Message----- >> From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com >> [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > > Behalf Of Gail & Scott Finke > > Actually, an obvious direction may not be a problem. I >> remember several >> discussions on this list about pictures of or extant medieval brocade >> garments that had been pieced together with NO regard to matching the >> pattern. Upside down pieces, etc. Anyone else remember these? >> Anyway, seeing >> that I can't cite any references, I can't say for sure. But >> I'm willing to >> bet there is plenty of precedence. >> > >It's true. I have seen, with my own little eye, a Medieval cope of red >velvet that had been pieced in every-which-way, without regard to >direction of nap. The person or persons who made it didn't even pay much >attention to regular-sized or symmetrical piecing. One thing to keep in mind is that church vestments were often made up from donations -- either of fabric or of used garments. And often were re-made and re-made over the centuries. (Traceable by contrasting the style of the garments with the type of fabric.) There are a couple of vestments where researchers have analyzed the cut of the original secular garment by backtracking from the shape of the pieced-together vestments. The brocades in "first-cut" garments that I've seen (both secular and eclesiastic) stick to having the design "correct" on the main pieces, with things like gussets or pieced corners being more random. The only truly all-random piecing I've seen has been in garments that are clearly re-made from some previous garment. Heather -- **** Heather Rose Jones heather.jones@earthlink.net **** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 16 00:28:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9G4SgdR004380 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 00:28:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9G4S33x027404 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Oct 2004 22:28:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9G4RrjM061011; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 22:27:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9G4RnjM060883 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 22:27:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.145.235]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i9G4RZt0011624 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 14:27:36 +1000 Message-ID: <001001c4b338$56f73ac0$eb91d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <416DDC9B.10309@reddawn.net> <416E83F8.2030408@in-tch.com> <416EA4D7.3000604@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] list madness? Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:59:11 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 2:09 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] list madness? > Sue Clemenger wrote: > > It must be you, dearie, or your server, because I'm only getting one > > copy of each message, and no duplicates. > > --sue > > > Thanks Sue, and everyone else who responded. My mailserver seems to be > hiccuping, I got over 200 duplicate copies of messages last night, and > it's begun again this morning... > Dawn OK I haven't got that far but I've found that if my computer starts downloading my emails and is interrupted halfway through the server keeps the messages I've already downloaded and if I start it again it will download a second copy of all the ones I've already downloaded. Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole in OR in Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra, Australia ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 16 00:51:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9G4pn25004663 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 00:51:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9G4p93x028750 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Oct 2004 22:51:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9G4p2jM071570; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 22:51:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from asmtp-a063f29.pas.sa.earthlink.net (asmtp-a063f29.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.120.131]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9G4oxjM071533 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 22:51:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from dialup-4.152.117.166.dial1.atlanta1.level3.net ([4.152.117.166] helo=MOM) by asmtp-a063f29.pas.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CIgWw-0003KI-Jl for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 21:50:59 -0700 Message-ID: <008401c4b33b$d0cfacd0$0300a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 00:51:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 140fedcc4d524cc6b18d26c2e407058b94f5150ab1c16ac08f4233f47979de265433d9f13031fce8e708dacd119297aa350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.152.117.166 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Powdered wigs X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i9G4pn25004663 Status: RO Does anyone know what the wig powder was made of during the Baroque period? Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Online Reference Library, AND Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumegallery.com/research.htm www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 16 04:40:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9G8eG6X024126 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 04:40:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9G8dW3x010183 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Oct 2004 02:39:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9G8dIjM073722; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 02:39:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web50004.mail.yahoo.com (web50004.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.19]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9G8dFjM073644 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 02:39:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20041016083910.58694.qmail@web50004.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [80.168.227.57] by web50004.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 09:39:10 BST Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 09:39:10 +0100 (BST) From: Marquesate Subject: Re: [h-cost] Powdered wigs To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <008401c4b33b$d0cfacd0$0300a8c0@MOM> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Penny, when exactly do you mean? Because powdering one's wig only came in at the very end of what's commonly called the Baroque period. The annoying thing is that I dimly remember reading what it was made out of (they found wigs in a stately home, used to stuff a bed and analyzed the powder on it) and I can't remember for certain and since I moved into a more or less temp accomodation, I have most of my books and notes in storage. :-( I try to force my brain into submission, though. Nicole --- Penny Ladnier wrote: > Does anyone know what the wig powder was made of during the Baroque period? > > Penny E. Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Online Reference Library, AND Costume Classroom > www.costumegallery.com > www.costumegallery.com/research.htm > www.costumeclassroom.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 16 06:02:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9GA2IS0013888 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 06:02:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9GA1f3x024591 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Oct 2004 04:01:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9GA1VjM007920; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 04:01:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.200]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9GA1RjM007827 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 04:01:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Oct 2004 10:01:22 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041016103759.01454940@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 11:00:22 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Powdered wigs In-Reply-To: <008401c4b33b$d0cfacd0$0300a8c0@MOM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 00:51 16/10/2004 -0400, you wrote: >Does anyone know what the wig powder was made of during the Baroque period? > >Penny E. Ladnier >Owner, The Costume Gallery & Online Reference Library, AND Costume Classroom >www.costumegallery.com >www.costumegallery.com/research.htm >www.costumeclassroom.com According to Richard Corson, "Fashions in Hair" revised edition 1980 (Much edited by me) "Even before the beginning of the century (18th) powder had been used sporadically to change the colour of the hair. About 1703 a plain white powder is believed to have been used for the first time." "The powder was encouraged to stick to the hair by first plastering it with grease or pomatum, but even though that proved a deterrent to the production of clouds of powder drifting in one's wake, it hardly prevented anything touching the hair from being rather the worse for the encounter" "Various substances were used for powdering, wheat flour being the first. (snip) In about 1715.........(there was) a search for substitutes. One of these was a powder made from a soft white earth, accidentally discovered and developed by John Schnorr, a German ironmaster. Another was a mixture of starch and plaster of Paris. " "Early hair powder was usually either white or grey, sometimes black or brown, very occasionally blond. Later it was tinted in various colours - pink, blue and lavender - and strongly scented. (snip) May 1782....red hair....... became the fashion, for all the Beaux and Belles wore red powder. " 1806 Fox (the politician possibly) wore blue powder. During William Pitt's Premiership, a "powder tax" was brought in, and most people stopped wearing wigs, some clergy, some members of the navy, and army, and the Royal Family being exempt!! Pipeclay was also used to whiten wigs, but I think that may have been inclined to be for military use only. I don't know whether it would work, but powdered orris root has a wonderful smell, and is a very fine powder, and might work on a real hair wig, which is washable, so it could be washed out if it doesn't work. My wig friend nowadays recommends coloured hair spray, used very finely, and not, as recommended by another wig person, Vitapointe and baby powder! This makes the wig look dirty within days, and would only be practical if the wig could be washed every two or three days!! Hope that helps. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 16 08:46:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9GCklD3010185 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 08:46:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9GCk73x003543 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Oct 2004 06:46:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9GCjvjM079892; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 06:45:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9GCjsjM079820 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 06:45:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-8.13) id A7FC2CDC0088; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 08:45:48 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.106 ([209.131.81.106] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 16 Oct 04 12:45:47 -0000 Message-ID: <001701c4b37f$1509d180$6a5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200410151531.i9FFVEjN030504@net.indra.com> <001f01c4b2d1$0b344360$6400a8c0@wightman.ca> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Embroidery happy-dance Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 08:53:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lorene, this is simply breath-taking. Both in content and workmanship. I would love to see it on the cloth! Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Five Rivers" To: Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 12:06 PM Subject: [h-cost] Embroidery happy-dance > Okay, so not strictly costume, but sort of costume for the wall. :-) > Just finished the Wind embroidery of the Celtic series I've designed: Earth, > Wind, Fire, Water. Images are up on the website. Direct URL is: > http://www.5rivers.org/en-gb/dept_33.html and then scroll down to the third > item. You can click on the 'more product information' to get a larger image. > > Have Water to edge and get on the frame today. Oh boy, oh boy. :-D > > Regards > Lorina > Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage > fine hand-sewn embroidered garments, historical sewing patterns & embroidery > supplies > (519) 799-5577, http://www.5rivers.org email: info@5rivers.org > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 16 08:59:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9GCxVPE010444 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 08:59:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9GCwx3x004146 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Oct 2004 06:58:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9GCwsjM085385; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 06:58:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9GCwojM085308 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 06:58:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-8.13) id AB0412B500BC; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 08:58:44 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.106 ([209.131.81.106] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 16 Oct 04 12:58:42 -0000 Message-ID: <003d01c4b380$e37fb600$6a5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200410151531.i9FFVEjO030504@net.indra.com><5.1.0.14.2.20041015183533.014547f0@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> <50114.12.34.13.204.1097864002.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Time Line - 20thC Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 09:06:01 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think Art Deco is probably during the same time as "Funktionalism" Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 2:13 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Time Line - 20thC > >>Jugendstyle (Art Nouveau): 1890-1910 > >>Edwardian Era 1901-1919 > >>Funktionalism: 1920-1940 not English > >>Our time: 1940- > > > When was Art Deco? > > I think of it as Jazz Age, post WWI and into the 1920s. > > U.S. had the Depression era. > > Post WWII was the New Look developed by Dior and other designers, > which went into the 1950s. > > Late 50s/early 60s was the Eisenhower era in the US. 1950s was the > beginning of the Nuclear era, although that may not be attached to > fashion so much. > > Late 60s/early 70s was youth vs the establishment, with fashions for > both. > > Mid 70s, the Disco era, late 70s into the 80s was Punk & New Wave, > and then it starts getting blurry because we're to close to it all. > 90s, the Lycra era? :-) > > There was a lot of fashion change in the 20thC (and probably will be > in the 21st as well) so the eras are in decades rather than > centuries. > > -Carol > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 16 10:02:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9GE2ibf013719 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 10:02:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9GDxg3x007147 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Oct 2004 07:59:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9GDxXjM012745; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 07:59:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9GDxSjM012687 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 07:59:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f8c.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.140]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id DCB0B262840 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 15:59:25 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <003301c4b388$638cc2f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 15:59:43 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] powdered wigs X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Colonial Williamsburg is selling a wonderfull powder. It is white and it is perfumed, absolutely lovely. The other day they showed a programme about Marie Antoinette in the television from BBC Prime. There were two maids standing on each side of the queen, who stood naked. They had a plate with powder in front of their mouth, and they blew air on the powder so that it got over to the queen. When the queen had finished, you clearly noticed her footmarks on the floor. I have never seen this before, but wondered if this was a comon thing to do for upperclass? Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 16 10:07:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9GE7J3Y013805 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 10:07:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9GE4R3x007499 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Oct 2004 08:04:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9GE4RjM015261; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 08:04:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9GE4QjM015246 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 08:04:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f8c.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.140]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 4FD2147FE22 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 16:04:25 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <003d01c4b389$17f266f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 16:04:46 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Embroidery Finished OT X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Lorina, Wonderfull work, congratulations with this. I also am beginning to love embroidery more than costume making, perhaps because i soon have made so many dresses of the period. I actually am planning to make embroidered wall hangings two, in my own free style design. I find that i am the happiest when i sit by my frame and make embroidery. Also i soon have a huge collection of embroidery silks to choose from. The latest buy was japanese flat silk and it is gorgeous. Bjarne Okay, so not strictly 18th century, but done with 18th century technologies and materials :-) Just finished the Wind embroidery of the Celtic series I've designed: Earth, Wind, Fire, Water. Images are up on the website. Direct URL is: http://www.5rivers.org/en-gb/dept_33.html and then scroll down to the third item. You can click on the 'more product information' to get a larger image. Have Water to edge and get on the frame today. Oh boy, oh boy. :-D Regards Lorina Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 16 10:15:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9GEFKgE013970 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 10:15:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9GECR3x007851 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Oct 2004 08:12:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9GECNjM018905; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 08:12:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.201]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9GECLjM018886 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 08:12:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Aspasia1@gmail.com) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 75so136424rnl for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 07:12:20 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=Gv+r0f80dpargpYgd/whA8aNaljhDGfOAwwUBKDUSYkVqT9ptjZ7KAq7AFmMe34wzDs42uDNYo+o2c57DOLvGpeIet0S6zMhbOD60EOaafSWIKU2GYT32ydL7XSpINGpXdvI4KPbaPWJ/KGGiaIr2zxdBYV0cKvBxTgAVlK4lpE Received: by 10.38.151.68 with SMTP id y68mr683180rnd; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 07:12:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.67.15 with HTTP; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 07:12:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4ef943ba041016071235219f8b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 10:12:20 -0400 From: Bonnie Booker To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Attifet In-Reply-To: <4c5accc804101513542c1eecfd@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <4ef943ba04101512343d194989@mail.gmail.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20041015124413.02a18450@64.87.54.245> <4c5accc804101513542c1eecfd@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks for the advice. I couldn't find a pattern or instructions on the Costumer's Manifest. The comb sounds good. Also, I have very long hair, so I will be putting it in a bun, so the hatpins should work too. I figure two should keep it from shifting too much. I have a very stiff synthetic I used for my son's rapier doublet I can use to line it with. Then wire it. Thanks again. On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:54:10 -0400, Kristalori History wrote: > I also am a huge fan of this hat and have the Lynn Mcmaster's pattern > that I use for the most part. My only difference in opinion with > Kimiko's advice is to use plastic canvas for the hat form. Buckram is > ok but the second it gets wet you have a mashed mess. No it's not > period but it gives you a nice hat you can toss in the washer if it's > not heavily decorated. I use just about anything for lining and always > make sure to put a small comb in the inside top of the hat. This helps > to hold it on. Also if your hair is thick enough (mine is shortish but > really thick) don't be afraid to use hat pins to anchor the hat into > small knots on your head. > > Bice > On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:02:57 -0700, Kimiko Small wrote: > > Hello Aspasia, > > > > I love that hat, and have a couple of patterns myself. Both are teardrop > > shaped. > > > > You may find the bridal satin may shift on your head, as it is slippery. > > But it will look good. I prefer to use linen now for linings, so hats like > > that don't slip as much. Not quite as pretty tho. > > > > The way to make it I would suggest using a buckram form outlined in the > > wire. Theatrical two-ply is the better choice if you can find it. Some > > people prefer to make hats in general using plastic canvas, but I am not > > sure how well that will work for the attifet, considering the shaping of it. > > > > If you need help on construction, there are links to sites on hat making at > > the Costumer's Manifest. > > http://www.costumes.org/HISTORY/100pages/HATS.HTM > > > > Enjoy the hat once you have it. I find it one of the more flattering hats > > for the time period. Yet silly me will be making a Tudor gable next week > > (sigh, things we do for our characters). > > > > Kimiko Small > > Owner ~ DreamTime Studios > > http://www.dreamtime-studios.com > > Fresno, CA, USA > > > > "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell > -- > ============================ > Italian Ladies 2005 Calendar > http://www.lulu.com/kristalori > http://kristalori.com > http://snipurl.com/96f1 Dress Diaries > http://snipurl.com/9bir That 70's Trailer > ============================ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > -- Aspasia Moonwind _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 16 10:37:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9GEbY7Q014473 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 10:37:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9GEYe3x009431 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Oct 2004 08:34:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9GEYbjM029879; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 08:34:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.202]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9GEYYjM029830 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 08:34:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Oct 2004 14:34:29 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041016153025.01454a68@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 15:32:47 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] powdered wigs In-Reply-To: <003301c4b388$638cc2f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 15:59 16/10/2004 +0200, you wrote: >Colonial Williamsburg is selling a wonderfull powder. It is white and it is >perfumed, absolutely lovely. >The other day they showed a programme about Marie Antoinette in the >television from BBC Prime. >There were two maids standing on each side of the queen, who stood naked. >They had a plate with powder in front of their mouth, and they blew air on >the powder so that it got over to the queen. >When the queen had finished, you clearly noticed her footmarks on the floor. >I have never seen this before, but wondered if this was a comon thing to do >for upperclass? There are pictures and cartoons of hair powder being blown at men in the Richard Corson book from which I quoted. I have not seen pictures of it happening to women, but they are shown wearing powdering jackets, Mme de Pompadour at her dressing table being one example. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 16 10:52:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9GEqD62015347 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 10:52:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9GEmI3x010186 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Oct 2004 08:48:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9GEmEjM036135; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 08:48:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41527.mail.yahoo.com (web41527.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.94.134]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9GEmCjM036065 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 08:48:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celtic_dragonrider@yahoo.ca) Message-ID: <20041016144807.46032.qmail@web41527.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.82.52.78] by web41527.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 10:48:07 EDT Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 10:48:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Janet Renzetti Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII and Tudor sleeves To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <8efb628f12e6.8f12e68efb62@optonline.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am wondering if he is a priest or other important figure. A few reasons being that clergy higher than friar often had fancy "woman-like" robes in pictures that I had seen, also he is standing higher than Henry looks like on a platform o box. No one's head is higher than the king's. When in close up, it looks like a masculine face. I will examine it more too. I am sure everyone else has hashed it out too. Janet purplkat@optonline.net wrote: My question regards the man in the background... The 'over-coat' he is wearing - is that a man's outfit or can ladies wear it?? Kat ----- Original Message ----- From: Janet Renzetti > > http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/h/holbein/hans_y/2drawing/1543/6henry8.jpg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 16 11:07:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9GF7gkW016766 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 11:07:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9GF4g3x011070 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Oct 2004 09:04:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9GF4ZjM043727; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 09:04:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com (adsl-065-013-105-239.sip.tys.bellsouth.net [65.13.105.239]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9GF4XjM043699 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 09:04:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i9GFPABf011582 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 11:25:10 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: (from sfarmer@localhost) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3/Submit) id i9GFP9KE011581 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 11:25:09 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 11:25:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Farmer Message-Id: <200410161525.i9GFP9KE011581@sabre.goldsword.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII and Tudor sleeves In-Reply-To: <20041016144807.46032.qmail@web41527.mail.yahoo.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > I am wondering if he is a priest or other important figure. A few reasons being that clergy higher than friar often had fancy "woman-like" robes in pictures that I had seen, also he is standing higher than Henry looks like on a platform o box. No one's head is higher than the king's. When in close up, it looks like a masculine face. He's Henry VII Jerusha > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Janet Renzetti > > > http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/h/holbein/hans_y/2drawing/1543/6henry8.jpg > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 16 11:37:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9GFbOW4017974 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 11:37:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9GFYR3x013232 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Oct 2004 09:34:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9GFYNjM058964; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 09:34:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-04-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (ms-smtp-04-smtplb.ohiordc.rr.com [65.24.5.138]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9GFYKjM058934 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 09:34:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ailith@neo.rr.com) Received: from duncan (dhcp024-209-056-164.neo.rr.com [24.209.56.164]) by ms-smtp-04-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id i9GFYEHI000298 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 11:34:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <007401c4b395$96928420$1902a8c0@duncan> From: "ailith" To: "Historical Costume" References: <175C4793AFE4AB4596D4C17CCC98FD96854DD1@wo-exch2003.wideorbit.com> <41706DE3.1070606@thibault.org> Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 11:34:07 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] The Medici Family X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings! For those in America who have cable, this Sunday evening (October 17th at 9pm Eastern Time), there's a program on called "The Mummy Detective". This is the first show and they are focusing on the Medici family, specifically Cosimo, Eleanora, and the boys. The commericals for the program shows lots of portraits, so I'm really hoping that they might show extant clothing and/or portraits that we don't get to see often. My VCR is already set up to record! Also, on November 7 (at least in my area--check your local PBS listing), on Masterpiece Theater, there's a new costume drama, Henry VIII. Ray Winstone is Henry, Helena Bonham Carter is Anne Boleyn; Emilia Fox is Jane Seymour; David Suchet is Cardinal Wolsey; Assumpta Serna is Katherine of Aragon; Pia Girard is Anne of Cleves (Pia Girard), Emily Blunt is Katharine Howard; and Clare Holm is Catherine Parr. It's available on Amazon for around $26. Kate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 16 16:56:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9GKujPe027087 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 16:56:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9GKu83x004611 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Oct 2004 14:56:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9GKtaIJ019121; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 14:55:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from copper.wightman.ca (copper.wightman.ca [216.249.0.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9GKtXIJ019081 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 14:55:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lgsteph@wightman.ca) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by copper.wightman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AD283F807 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 16:55:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d7k7b6 (unknown [142.46.141.52]) by copper.wightman.ca (Postfix) with SMTP id 4E4413F808 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 16:55:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001a01c4b3c3$1ae311e0$6400a8c0@wightman.ca> From: "Five Rivers" To: References: <200410161413.i9GEDJjN019355@net.indra.com> Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 16:56:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Embroidery Finished OT X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Bjarne, Thanks kindly for the compliment. Like you I have come to love the embroidery more than costume making. Frankly, a blank piece of cloth sets my mind to twitching. And I've also found my love of painting, and my love of sculpting, have found a new inspiration and expression in the creation of art embroideries. The fact I'm using techniques and technologies in use for hundreds of years adds to the whole process for me. Like you I do love the flat silks. I find, however, I'm limiting my 'palette in the same way I limit my painting palette. In watercolours I work primarily with transparent pigments, with a limited array of colours, preferring to mix my hues. In embroidery the nature of the designs I create dictates to me what my palette for that piece will be, and usually I find I limit the choices to a few, carefully considered stitches, materials, and techniques. I'm afraid, however, I will likely always be a magpie, as I do so love working with real gold thread. I had to really restrain myself from using a lot of gold in the recent Wind embroidery. As I worked I thought perhaps couching on some gold in certain areas would work. Am I ever glad I decided simply to lay the gold on first and assess how it would look. Because it looked awful! Totally destroyed the subtle nature of the design I was attempting to achieve - which was to emulate the sense of wind. But I'm rambling at this point. Regards Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage fine hand-sewn embroidered garments, historical sewing patterns & embroidery supplies (519) 799-5577, http://www.5rivers.org email: info@5rivers.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 16 21:38:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9H1cljr032433 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 21:38:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9H1c93x023244 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Oct 2004 19:38:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9H1btIJ043590; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 19:37:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.iinet.net.au (mail-08.iinet.net.au [203.59.3.40]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9H1bnIJ043533 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 19:37:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from garden@earthlydelights.com.au) Received: (qmail 18593 invoked from network); 17 Oct 2004 01:37:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO earthlydelights.com.au) (203.173.6.5) by mail.iinet.net.au with SMTP; 17 Oct 2004 01:37:48 -0000 Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 11:43:15 +1000 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Attifet Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: A & J Garden To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <4c5accc804101513542c1eecfd@mail.gmail.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have a huge roll of buckram sitting in my sewing room - got to use it for something! If I use it for hats, what do I have to do to prevent hats becoming a "mashed mess" if they get wet? Thanks, Aylwen On Saturday, October 16, 2004, at 06:54 AM, Kristalori History wrote: > I also am a huge fan of this hat and have the Lynn Mcmaster's pattern > that I use for the most part. My only difference in opinion with > Kimiko's advice is to use plastic canvas for the hat form. Buckram is > ok but the second it gets wet you have a mashed mess. No it's not > period but it gives you a nice hat you can toss in the washer if it's > not heavily decorated. I use just about anything for lining and always > make sure to put a small comb in the inside top of the hat. This helps > to hold it on. Also if your hair is thick enough (mine is shortish but > really thick) don't be afraid to use hat pins to anchor the hat into > small knots on your head. > > Bice > On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:02:57 -0700, Kimiko Small > wrote: >> Hello Aspasia, >> >> I love that hat, and have a couple of patterns myself. Both are >> teardrop >> shaped. >> >> You may find the bridal satin may shift on your head, as it is >> slippery. >> But it will look good. I prefer to use linen now for linings, so hats >> like >> that don't slip as much. Not quite as pretty tho. >> >> The way to make it I would suggest using a buckram form outlined in >> the >> wire. Theatrical two-ply is the better choice if you can find it. Some >> people prefer to make hats in general using plastic canvas, but I am >> not >> sure how well that will work for the attifet, considering the shaping >> of it. >> >> If you need help on construction, there are links to sites on hat >> making at >> the Costumer's Manifest. >> http://www.costumes.org/HISTORY/100pages/HATS.HTM >> >> Enjoy the hat once you have it. I find it one of the more flattering >> hats >> for the time period. Yet silly me will be making a Tudor gable next >> week >> (sigh, things we do for our characters). >> >> Kimiko Small >> Owner ~ DreamTime Studios >> http://www.dreamtime-studios.com >> Fresno, CA, USA >> >> "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell > -- > ============================ > Italian Ladies 2005 Calendar > http://www.lulu.com/kristalori > http://kristalori.com > http://snipurl.com/96f1 Dress Diaries > http://snipurl.com/9bir That 70's Trailer > ============================ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 16 22:24:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9H2O3tH000673 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 22:24:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9H2NV3x026069 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Oct 2004 20:23:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9H2NOIJ062415; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 20:23:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9H2NNIJ062402 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 20:23:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jacquelinejbump@gmail.com) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 78so189778rnl for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 19:23:22 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=aYUS3f394ud1AN3eltO4Ot+9QiRFoMC4iyn2FWK1LN1xQWbbs2u09lUnxTznzGMtfFAlB7Md+PwUAx3Ca328COSYbNA/lnLtCGPHDkUoe7Lg8XxR37txPrOTquOC1RWSeGtEUEDnFb6SKz+8EEtVdCibnAAz6zdgEQsIeBHhid0 Received: by 10.38.73.46 with SMTP id v46mr793369rna; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 19:23:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.14.59 with HTTP; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 19:23:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4c5accc8041016192367c2c7e7@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 22:23:22 -0400 From: Kristalori History To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Attifet In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <4c5accc804101513542c1eecfd@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Once buckram gets wet that's it. You can try to press it flat but I've yet to see it work. I'd use the buckram for hem linings or something. On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 11:43:15 +1000, A & J Garden wrote: > I have a huge roll of buckram sitting in my sewing room - got to use it > for something! If I use it for hats, what do I have to do to prevent > hats becoming a "mashed mess" if they get wet? > Thanks, Aylwen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 17 00:39:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9H4dFBo003419 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 00:39:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9H4ZU3x005980 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Oct 2004 22:35:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9H4ZLIJ019560; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 22:35:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065c10.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065c10.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.184]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9H4ZJIJ019550 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 22:35:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from costumrs@radiks.net) Received: from user-12l20go.cable.mindspring.com ([69.81.2.24] helo=pierre-ynmjysj2.radiks.net) by pop-a065c10.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CJ2lL-0007lm-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 21:35:19 -0700 Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.2.20041016231738.024508c0@pop.radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net@pop.radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 23:19:46 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <200410161413.i9GEDJjN019355@net.indra.com> References: <200410161413.i9GEDJjN019355@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: costume exhibitions X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The exhibition referenced here is the Lord of the Rings exhibit, currently at the Museum of Science in Boston, MA, USA. www.mos.org will get you to an overview of the exhibit at present time. Sandy >From: "Glenda Robinson" >Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume exhibitions > >Sydney, Australia? I usually delete things about costume exhibitions, >because I'll never get to see them, being on the opposite side of the world >to Europe and Nth America. Could someone please fill me in about this >exhibition? > >I'll have to organise an exhibition party. I don't care WHAT period it is, >it'll still be exciting. > >Glenda. "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed to Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly -- Why They Are Simply Doomed. Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 17 02:25:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9H6P5D4005301 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 02:25:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9H6Kb3x011568 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 17 Oct 2004 00:20:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9H6KSIJ064115; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 00:20:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.compassnet.com.au [203.26.180.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9H6KOIK064029 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 00:20:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from glendar@compassnet.com.au) Received: from mail (root@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.10/linuxconf) with SMTP id i9H6Saqi024684 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 16:28:36 +1000 Received: from glendaii ([203.26.180.173]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.10/linuxconf) with SMTP id i9H6SYLc024669 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 16:28:35 +1000 Message-ID: <021601c4b411$10a04880$eaf4fea9@glendaii> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200410161413.i9GEDJjN019355@net.indra.com> <6.1.2.0.2.20041016231738.024508c0@pop.radiks.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: costume exhibitions Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 16:18:03 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks Sandy. I was hoping it was something that might interest me :-( LOTR is not my kettle of fish , but rest of the family loves it. We have the 4 DVD set of both I and II, but I've never seen them, except for some interviews and a 5 sec cameo with the NZ armours who we've known for years. Oh well, I'll keep waiting patiently until I get an exhibit that suits me. Glenda. ----- Original Message ----- > The exhibition referenced here is the Lord of the Rings exhibit, currently > at the Museum of Science in Boston, MA, USA. www.mos.org will get you to > an overview of the exhibit at present time. > > Sandy > > >From: "Glenda Robinson" > >Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume exhibitions > > > >Sydney, Australia? I usually delete things about costume exhibitions, > >because I'll never get to see them, being on the opposite side of the world > >to Europe and Nth America. Could someone please fill me in about this > >exhibition? > > > >I'll have to organise an exhibition party. I don't care WHAT period it is, > >it'll still be exciting. > > > >Glenda. > > "Those Who Fail To Learn History > Are Doomed to Repeat It; > Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly -- > Why They Are Simply Doomed. > > Achemdro'hm > "The Illusion of Historical Fact" > -- C.Y. 4971 > > Andromeda > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 17 08:46:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9HCkFUY023255 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 08:46:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9HCiv3x010088 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 17 Oct 2004 06:44:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9HCiiIJ022300; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 06:44:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9HCieIJ022200 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 06:44:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-8.13) id A92FCF30150; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 08:44:31 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.119 ([209.131.81.119] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 17 Oct 04 12:44:24 -0000 Message-ID: <002901c4b448$0e6a29a0$775183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4c5accc804101513542c1eecfd@mail.gmail.com> <4c5accc8041016192367c2c7e7@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Attifet Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 08:49:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ah, but if you are using 'hat weight' buckram, you can wet it to form shapes desired and when it dries, it will become firm again, if it was not over dampened. When the shapes are wired and covered with other materials, they usually provide enough protection to keep the hat in tact. At least this has been my experience. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kristalori History" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2004 10:23 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Attifet > Once buckram gets wet that's it. You can try to press it flat but I've > yet to see it work. I'd use the buckram for hem linings or something. > > > On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 11:43:15 +1000, A & J Garden > wrote: > > I have a huge roll of buckram sitting in my sewing room - got to use it > > for something! If I use it for hats, what do I have to do to prevent > > hats becoming a "mashed mess" if they get wet? > > Thanks, Aylwen > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 17 14:54:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9HIsgCX031079 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 14:54:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9HIsB3x002411 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 17 Oct 2004 12:54:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9HIrwIJ002334; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 12:53:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.195]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9HIruIJ002319 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 12:53:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jacquelinejbump@gmail.com) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 78so257588rnl for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 11:53:56 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=XQp+UGhkcLxd402FoLrCTTV4FVupGiYGPxspw9Zon/yFhIgqKx5rM+JTqlg/g8w+IXnxnHkLVhedpYxZvnHeSnT4XV7loGBaMzkfK4vNg8maZ/TAAn0aUwOjgbZIYn76rZ1gtOVLfyB7SsM95dsrUMjS3VXlgRFQbb9CEIX8ei0 Received: by 10.38.99.68 with SMTP id w68mr1100418rnb; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 11:53:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.14.59 with HTTP; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 11:53:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4c5accc80410171153ef719aa@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 14:53:55 -0400 From: Kristalori History To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Attifet In-Reply-To: <002901c4b448$0e6a29a0$775183d1@rmitchellras> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <4c5accc804101513542c1eecfd@mail.gmail.com> <4c5accc8041016192367c2c7e7@mail.gmail.com> <002901c4b448$0e6a29a0$775183d1@rmitchellras> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yeah I'm thinking more of my experience of when it's rained and it's gotten re-wet though. The first time wet then reshaped isn't a big deal but for some reason it really hates getting wet a second time. On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 08:49:48 -0400, Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > Ah, but if you are using 'hat weight' buckram, you can wet it to form shapes > desired and when it dries, it will become firm again, if it was not over > dampened. When the shapes are wired and covered with other materials, they > usually provide enough protection to keep the hat in tact. > At least this has been my experience. > Kathleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 17 18:02:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9HM2QsJ002805 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 18:02:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9HLuh3x014378 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 17 Oct 2004 15:56:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9HLuTIJ093622; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 15:56:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web13525.mail.yahoo.com (web13525.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.215]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9HLuOIJ093564 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 15:56:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pioneercynthia@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20041017215622.75846.qmail@web13525.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.69.42.106] by web13525.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 14:56:22 PDT Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 14:56:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Ms Cynthia Schrage To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200410132120.i9DLJojO038905@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Period Bird Embroidery X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all, I found a wierd Jacobean bird which is done with crewel, and I think I might use something like it. http://www.berlinembroidery.com/jacobeanbird.htm I'll have to rearrange the design elements, to fit around the pocket opening. Who knows, maybe I'll do something completely different. Nevertheless, keep sending ideas. Cynthia << Hi again, I also found one, in a book about indian embroidery. The pattern is with parrots. This is not counted stitch or crossstiching but surface embroidery. But those birds you are talking about here, are they not cross stitched birds? The book is called broderies indiennes, and the parrot pattern is based of an old 18th century pattern. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Five Rivers" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 8:45 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: Period Bird Embroidery > There are lots of images of birds for the 18th century to be found on > bed hangings. There are a goodly number of images of these in Art of > Embroidery by Schuette and someoneorother. Have the book in my personal > collection. It's a rare book, but I believe can be had through ILO. There > are also several images in a wee Shire Book on beds or bed hangings; can't > quite remember the name. > > Hope that helps. _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 17 18:43:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9HMh1vI003368 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 18:43:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9HMe23x017506 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 17 Oct 2004 16:40:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9HMdxIJ015731; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 16:39:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9HMduIJ015682 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 16:39:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id A59065D5F2 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 15:39:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041017152735.00b154c0@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 15:31:00 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Henry VIII and Tudor sleeves In-Reply-To: <200410152014.i9FKEnIV005475@sabre.goldsword.com> References: <416F9891.6057.BB0865D@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 04:14 PM 10/15/2004 -0400, you wrote: > > > could this be the one you are thinking of: > > > http://www.marileecody.com/francis.jpg > > > Doesn't give a variety of views, but there is the back view of the > > > boys in front. > >My account has been off-line (ISP "seamless transition") so I don't know >if this was answered before -- and idea of who painted this painting? > >Thanks. >Jerusha My books don't state who the painter was. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 17 18:46:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9HMkRll003379 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 18:46:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9HMet3x017565 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 17 Oct 2004 16:40:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9HMetIJ016214; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 16:40:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9HMdwIJ015721 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 16:39:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50FD35D65E for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 15:39:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041017153132.02a000f8@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 15:39:57 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Attifet In-Reply-To: References: <4c5accc804101513542c1eecfd@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:43 AM 10/17/2004 +1000, you wrote: >I have a huge roll of buckram sitting in my sewing room - got to use it >for something! If I use it for hats, what do I have to do to prevent hats >becoming a "mashed mess" if they get wet? >Thanks, Aylwen The best way to prevent the hats from getting wet, is to take them off during a rain storm. I guess I am lucky that around here our faires are usually dry, except for the first spring and last fall one. We are usually under canvas when it does rain. And since the hats have feathers that get ratty as well when wet (although they dry just fine), we try to take care of the hats before the hats get anywhere near "soaked", usually just misted, with no mishaps or mashed hats so far. There are a few layers of wadding and fabric over the buckram to get through, so minor mists are often not a problem. One can also Scotchgard the hats, which usually helps repel water. It may however, hasten the decay of fabric in the sun. However, if rain is a major problem in your area, plastic canvas is a decent alternative. I had only not recommended it for the attifet, because in one of my patterns, there is a dart that is sewn down the center to make the hat dip in front. I don't know how well the plastic canvas would shape along that dart, as I've only done so using buckram. YMMV of course. Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 17 18:50:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9HMoUJo003419 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 18:50:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9HMir3x017874 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 17 Oct 2004 16:44:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9HMinIJ018204; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 16:44:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out001.verizon.net (out001pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9HMilIJ018161 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 16:44:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jauncourt@verizon.net) Received: from [4.12.174.2] by out001.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20041017224446.ZKAO23519.out001.verizon.net@[4.12.174.2]> for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 17:44:46 -0500 Message-ID: <4172F5E7.5030206@verizon.net> Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 17:44:55 -0500 From: Maura Folsom User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20040616 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Attifet References: <200410171801.i9HI10IK066804@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: <200410171801.i9HI10IK066804@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out001.verizon.net from [4.12.174.2] at Sun, 17 Oct 2004 17:44:46 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A & J Garden wrote: > > I have a huge roll of buckram sitting in my sewing room - got to use it > for something! If I use it for hats, what do I have to do to prevent > hats becoming a "mashed mess" if they get wet? > Thanks, Aylwen I own several hats of verious periods made with buckram/wire bases. Two have been rained on, but were immediately removed and dried with little or no ill effect. If you are worried about it, keep a parasol or umbrella with you. Take it from a millener's assistant - Buckram, real millener's buckram, should not collapse from moisture unless by some horrible chance you dip your hat in a pool. Its real enemy is wear and tear or crushing. Repeated flexing, bending and moving of buckram will weaken the stiffener as much or more than any dip in water. I've gone so far as to make hats that I know will receive heavy use and wear (such as theatrical pieces) with a couple of extra layers of reinforcement and more wire. Hat bases shouldn't EVER be made of just buckram, unless they are meant to be temporary. Buckram mostly provides a support during construction for the actual framework, which ought to be a good stout millenery wire. The framework and construction should be a large part of the structure of the hat, and buckram's purpose during decoration is to provide a smooth layer upon which to apply the cloth and trims. In wear, the wire and buckram support each other. If you don't have buckram, you can build a wire frame and carefully stretch muslin over it and sew it down to provide the smooth surface for covering and decoration. Strictly speaking, any hat made with a wire/cloth base can also be made without the cloth and with a few extra cross wires to make sheer hats (for example, lighter, summer 1910's 'picture hats' are made this way). The real shaping structure is the wire, but these hats are more delicate because they have no sturdy fabric infrastructure and can be crushed fairly easily. Such crushing can be fixed, however, by carefully straightening the wires. Have you got a copy of "From the Neck Up"? It's a great resource for people just getting into millenery. All is not lost. You can indeed use your buckram. M. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 17 18:58:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9HMwevc003483 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 18:58:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9HMrl3x018814 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 17 Oct 2004 16:53:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9HMrhIJ022658; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 16:53:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9HMrfIJ022641 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 16:53:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FAB9B51C for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 15:53:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041017155110.02a000f8@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 15:53:42 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Attifet In-Reply-To: <4172F5E7.5030206@verizon.net> References: <200410171801.i9HI10IK066804@net.indra.com> <200410171801.i9HI10IK066804@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 05:44 PM 10/17/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Have you got a copy of "From the Neck Up"? It's a great resource for >people just getting into millenery. Definitely a most excellent book. My copy is sadly getting a bent spine from the use, but I have referred to it many times. Thanks so much for sharing your excellent experience and knowledge about millinery. It is good to hear from a milliner on such things. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 17 19:24:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9HNO9NI003872 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 19:24:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9HNJq3x020802 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 17 Oct 2004 17:19:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9HNJhIJ035689; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 17:19:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-118.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9HNJeIJ035609 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 17:19:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by mail.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE756425DB for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 18:49:26 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4172FE0D.2010804@reddawn.net> Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 18:19:41 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Medici Family References: <175C4793AFE4AB4596D4C17CCC98FD96854DD1@wo-exch2003.wideorbit.com> <41706DE3.1070606@thibault.org> <007401c4b395$96928420$1902a8c0@duncan> In-Reply-To: <007401c4b395$96928420$1902a8c0@duncan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ailith wrote: > Greetings! > > For those in America who have cable, this Sunday evening (October 17th > at 9pm Eastern Time), there's a program on called "The Mummy > Detective". This is the first show and they are focusing on the Medici > family, specifically Cosimo, Eleanora, and the boys. What channel is this supposed to be on? Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 17 19:44:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9HNiFYl004235 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 19:44:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9HNdo3x022369 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 17 Oct 2004 17:39:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9HNdiIJ045551; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 17:39:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9HNd5IJ045173 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 17:39:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from ches (c-24-1-84-130.client.comcast.net[24.1.84.130]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <200410172339000110072s5le>; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 23:39:00 +0000 Message-ID: <02cc01c4b4a2$66230810$6d00a8c0@ches> From: "Chiara" To: "Historical Costume" References: <175C4793AFE4AB4596D4C17CCC98FD96854DD1@wo-exch2003.wideorbit.com> <41706DE3.1070606@thibault.org><007401c4b395$96928420$1902a8c0@duncan> <4172FE0D.2010804@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Medici Family Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 18:38:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO TLC Discovery http://tlc.discovery.com/schedule/episode.jsp?episode=2&cpi=54712&gid=13084&channel=TLC Chiara `°ş¤ř,¸¸,ř¤ş°` ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 6:19 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Medici Family : ailith wrote: : > Greetings! : > : > For those in America who have cable, this Sunday evening (October 17th : > at 9pm Eastern Time), there's a program on called "The Mummy : > Detective". This is the first show and they are focusing on the Medici : > family, specifically Cosimo, Eleanora, and the boys. : : What channel is this supposed to be on? : : : : Dawn : : : : _______________________________________________ : h-costume mailing list : h-costume@mail.indra.com : http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 17 19:56:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9HNumX8004424 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 19:56:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9HNqM3x023002 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 17 Oct 2004 17:52:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9HNqIIJ051736; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 17:52:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m27.mx.aol.com (imo-m27.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9HNqGIJ051676 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 17:52:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Morses3@aol.com) Received: from Morses3@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.82.18f7403b (657) for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 19:52:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Morses3@aol.com Message-ID: <82.18f7403b.2ea45fa8@aol.com> Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 19:52:08 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Medici Family To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6811 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 10/17/04 7:20:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dawn@reddawn.net writes: > What channel is this supposed to be on? > The Medici show is on TLC at 9:00 EST. Perry _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 17 21:02:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9I12QoB005595 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 21:02:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9I0vw3x027928 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 17 Oct 2004 18:57:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9I0vnIJ082143; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 18:57:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9I0vkIJ082122 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 18:57:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.181] (pm5-181.eos.net [205.133.149.181]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9I0vhjE024967 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 20:57:43 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 20:53:37 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200410171801.i9HI10IK066804@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] LOTR exhibit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Someone said it would be traveling to Indianapolis. That's within driving distance for me. Anyone know where in Indianapolis, and when? Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 17 21:38:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9I1cqKR005800 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 21:38:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9I1cL3x000247 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 17 Oct 2004 19:38:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9I1cHIJ000393; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 19:38:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ns3.linuxwebnet.com (ns3.linuxwebnet.com [216.133.76.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9I1cDIJ000346 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 19:38:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from judymitch@oldwaylane.net) Received: (qmail 25507 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2004 02:08:44 -0000 Received: from dialup-4.249.81.6.dial1.washington2.level3.net (HELO oldwaylane.net) (4.249.81.6) by shada.com with SMTP; 18 Oct 2004 02:08:44 -0000 Message-ID: <41731C65.8010206@oldwaylane.net> Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 21:29:09 -0400 From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] LOTR exhibit References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Gail & Scott Finke wrote: > > Someone said it would be traveling to Indianapolis. That's within driving > distance for me. Anyone know where in Indianapolis, and when? Much of the exhibit info is still being worked on, but so far this much has been confirmed for each of the next 3 stops. Sydney Australia Powerhouse Museum - December 16, 2004 to March 31, 2005 o Museum Link: http://www.powerhousemuseum.com/pdf/media/LOTR.pdf o Tickets on sale now Houston TX Houston Museum of Natural Science - June 2005 * Museum Link: http://www.hmns.org/ Indianapolis IN Indiana State Museum - October 2005 - December 31 * Museum Link: www.indianamuseum.org Information on the exhibits will be updated at as it comes out. -Judy Mitchell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 17 23:37:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9I3be19007600 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 23:37:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9I3WnUo002817 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 17 Oct 2004 21:32:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9I3WeIJ053988; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 21:32:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9I3WbIJ053922 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 21:32:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gia_gavino@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.114 ([204.127.197.114]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <2004101803323201300t4r33e>; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 03:32:32 +0000 Received: from [24.16.244.181] by 204.127.197.114; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 03:32:20 +0000 From: gia_gavino@comcast.net (Elena O'Tighearnaigh) To: h-costume@indra.com (Costume Historical) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 03:32:20 +0000 Message-Id: <101820040332.19522.417339440006556900004C422200750330010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Sep 14 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: Z2lhX2dhdmlub0Bjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] TEsting if I'm on List? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi! I've not gotten emails from the list for a long time... -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 18 00:41:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9I4fF4U008894 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 00:41:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9I4efUo010424 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 17 Oct 2004 22:40:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9I4eSIJ087982; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 22:40:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from asmtp-a063f35.pas.sa.earthlink.net (asmtp-a063f35.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.120.220]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9I4eOIJ087956 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 22:40:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from dialup-4.152.198.173.dial1.atlanta1.level3.net ([4.152.198.173] helo=MOM) by asmtp-a063f35.pas.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CJPJo-0007M9-6h for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 21:40:24 -0700 Message-ID: <013201c4b4cc$ad241e50$0300a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <101820040332.19522.417339440006556900004C422200750330010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] TEsting if I'm on List? Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 00:41:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 140fedcc4d524cc6b18d26c2e407058b94f5150ab1c16ac08f4233f47979de26f03c8d48c1f584b21895537090790af3350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.152.198.173 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i9I4fF4U008894 Status: RO Elena, I see you! Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Online Reference Library, AND Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumegallery.com/research.htm www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 18 02:25:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9I6Ps2A020099 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 02:25:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9I6LgUo016809 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Oct 2004 00:21:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9I6LXIJ039144; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 00:21:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9I6LVIJ039121 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 00:21:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69F12AEC1 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 23:21:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041017231633.00b158b8@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 23:21:36 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Medici Family In-Reply-To: <007401c4b395$96928420$1902a8c0@duncan> References: <175C4793AFE4AB4596D4C17CCC98FD96854DD1@wo-exch2003.wideorbit.com> <41706DE3.1070606@thibault.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:34 AM 10/16/2004 -0400, you wrote: >Greetings! > >For those in America who have cable, this Sunday evening (October 17th >at 9pm Eastern Time), there's a program on called "The Mummy >Detective". This is the first show and they are focusing on the Medici >family, specifically Cosimo, Eleanora, and the boys. The commericals >for the program shows lots of portraits, so I'm really hoping that >they might show extant clothing and/or portraits that we don't get to >see often. > >My VCR is already set up to record! Hi, Thanks so much for the heads up on the episode. I set my TiVo to record, and thought it was enjoyable for what it was. I also enjoy Egyptology, so looking at mummies is my thing. They did show three portraits of Eleanora, from the well known one with her son, to one before she died (her face is a bit thin), to a third. The first two I had seen before, although I don't have an image of her looking thin. However, the third image, of her in a dark red dress, with what appeared to be a dark red surcoat and a high open standing collar partlet, was one I had never seen before. Would someone here be familiar with this image, and know where I can find a copy I can look at better? Thanks, Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 18 03:06:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9I769i4002564 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 03:06:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9I75ZUo019555 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Oct 2004 01:05:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9I75YIJ060074; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 01:05:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.195]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9I75XIJ060061 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 01:05:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jacquelinejbump@gmail.com) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 78so337000rnl for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 00:05:32 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=fKln8+tBw29UyI6MJIADYSZuX9OL4S2rgOpLK1QdRn637v/jWtA8Rkv8oxjo7J3SH2GcNZFi4p5EHRppOJku3B9Ilp5bIlGrSBay24h1308DRz7KJvw2h4B3p0W+fUE/Q5eozyFnetGLWw36L4iAlzQav3KoOzqfFuw3WcOcGDQ Received: by 10.38.77.61 with SMTP id z61mr1349505rna; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 00:05:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.14.59 with HTTP; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 00:05:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4c5accc80410180005641792a7@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 03:05:32 -0400 From: Kristalori History To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Medici Family In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <175C4793AFE4AB4596D4C17CCC98FD96854DD1@wo-exch2003.wideorbit.com> <41706DE3.1070606@thibault.org> <5.2.1.1.0.20041017231633.00b158b8@64.87.54.245> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've seen this dress. She looks pretty damn sick doesn't she. Of course 11 kids and they said her pelvis had fractures all through it and her legs were twisted as well. I have to wait till I can get the DVD before I can see this but it looks really good. On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 21:01:37 -1000 (HST), annora wrote: Is this the one? > http://www.songsmyth.com/1560italian/elenorabronzinoc1560.jpg > > It's not very big but the page it's from > (http://www.songsmyth.com/1560italian.html) says it's by Allori c. 1560 > and it's in the Hermitage Museum. > > > --annora _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 18 03:06:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9I76Ek7002621 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 03:06:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9I71nUo019401 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Oct 2004 01:01:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9I71hIJ058385; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 01:01:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mailrelay.k12.hi.us (mailrelay.k12.hi.us [165.248.247.160]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9I71fIJ058340 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 01:01:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lisleong@k12.hi.us) Received: from WS003 (unknown [165.248.247.156]) by mailrelay.k12.hi.us (Postfix) with SMTP id 5549A3F03 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 21:01:38 -1000 (HST) Received: From makani ([165.248.1.195]) by WS003 (WebShield SMTP v4.5 MR1a P0803.345); id 1098082897674; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 21:01:37 -1000 Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 21:01:37 -1000 (HST) From: annora X-X-Sender: lisleong@makani To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Medici Family In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20041017231633.00b158b8@64.87.54.245> Message-ID: References: <175C4793AFE4AB4596D4C17CCC98FD96854DD1@wo-exch2003.wideorbit.com> <41706DE3.1070606@thibault.org> <5.2.1.1.0.20041017231633.00b158b8@64.87.54.245> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > two I had seen before, although I don't have an image of her looking thin. > However, the third image, of her in a dark red dress, with what appeared to > be a dark red surcoat and a high open standing collar partlet, was one I had > never seen before. Would someone here be familiar with this image, and know > where I can find a copy I can look at better? Is this the one? http://www.songsmyth.com/1560italian/elenorabronzinoc1560.jpg It's not very big but the page it's from (http://www.songsmyth.com/1560italian.html) says it's by Allori c. 1560 and it's in the Hermitage Museum. --annora _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 18 04:00:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9I80DLU018583 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 04:00:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9I7tnUo022151 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Oct 2004 01:55:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9I7tWIJ080197; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 01:55:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9I7tVIJ080171 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 01:55:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4216E1114B for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 00:55:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041018003735.00b15940@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 00:55:36 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kimiko Small Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Henry VIII's Sumptuary Laws in full X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello all, I am looking for the sumptuary laws passed specifically during Henry VIII's reign in England. However, what I am finding online is mostly writings talking about them in general, but not actually stating the original laws in full. I found one stating part of the laws, but it appears to be edited, and I am looking for the full version. http://costume.dm.net/sumptuary.html I found this page: http://www.thrednedlestrete.com/Proclamations.htm This is an excellent start, but I can't seem to find the right one for Henry's laws on who wears what, as shown in edited version on the first link above. However, the wool and other laws are helpful as well. I believe the owner of this site is on this list. Have I overlooked something? And I found the Elizabethan equivalent, which was exactly what I am looking for, except I need the one just for Henry's time. This set of laws has lumped Henry and Mary's proclamations, and amended them for Elizabeth's desires. http://renaissance.dm.net/sumptuary/who-wears-what.html So, does anyone know what I am looking for, and can point me in the correct direction? A web site, or even a good book on the subject is fine, as I love to read books. Thanks so much Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 18 04:15:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9I8F2vJ025148 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 04:15:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9I85aUo022509 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Oct 2004 02:05:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9I85XIJ084275; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 02:05:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9I85WIJ084263 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 02:05:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3542C1137A for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 01:05:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041018005632.02520008@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 01:04:00 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Medici Family In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.1.1.0.20041017231633.00b158b8@64.87.54.245> <175C4793AFE4AB4596D4C17CCC98FD96854DD1@wo-exch2003.wideorbit.com> <41706DE3.1070606@thibault.org> <5.2.1.1.0.20041017231633.00b158b8@64.87.54.245> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:01 PM 10/17/2004 -1000, you wrote: >>two I had seen before, although I don't have an image of her looking >>thin. However, the third image, of her in a dark red dress, with what >>appeared to be a dark red surcoat and a high open standing collar >>partlet, was one I had never seen before. Would someone here be familiar >>with this image, and know where I can find a copy I can look at better? > > Is this the one? >http://www.songsmyth.com/1560italian/elenorabronzinoc1560.jpg > > It's not very big but the page it's from > (http://www.songsmyth.com/1560italian.html) says it's by Allori c. 1560 > and it's in the Hermitage Museum. > > >--annora Hi Annora, Thanks so much for your search, but this is the one where she looks thin. I only caught a headshot of this image (or maybe I didn't pay much attention at that time, I was cooking), but this isn't the one I am looking for. I didn't realize she wore red in this dress as well. The one I am looking for she's healthy looking, and the collar on her partlet was standing pretty high, had pleats along the edges, and appeared to be smocked or something inside the partlet with beading. I wish I could hack our TiVo for the image, but it's the oldest version, so it would ruin our warranty or something. Ah, for a series 2, so I could download it onto the computer. However, now I know what the the full image of her looking thin is, and like I mentioned before, I didn't have that one either, so this also did help me. Thanks so much, Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 18 06:29:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9IAT0sc015645 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 06:29:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IASUUo029495 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Oct 2004 04:28:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IASMIJ041796; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 04:28:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-01-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (ms-smtp-01-smtplb.ohiordc.rr.com [65.24.5.135]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IASKIJ041782 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 04:28:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ailith@neo.rr.com) Received: from duncan (dhcp024-209-056-164.neo.rr.com [24.209.56.164]) by ms-smtp-01-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id i9IASGlw017540 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 06:28:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001701c4b4fd$29c46980$1902a8c0@duncan> From: "ailith" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.1.1.0.20041017231633.00b158b8@64.87.54.245> <175C4793AFE4AB4596D4C17CCC98FD96854DD1@wo-exch2003.wideorbit.com> <41706DE3.1070606@thibault.org> <5.2.1.1.0.20041017231633.00b158b8@64.87.54.245> <5.2.1.1.0.20041018005632.02520008@64.87.54.245> Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Medici Family Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 06:28:05 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kimiko~ The portrait that you're referring to is the one in Francisco's "Treasure Room". It's a fresco, I think...it appears to be a part of the wall. I'm on my way to class right now and don't have time to put the image online until later. I'll post when it's up. kate ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kimiko Small" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 4:04 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Medici Family > At 09:01 PM 10/17/2004 -1000, you wrote: > >>two I had seen before, although I don't have an image of her looking > >>thin. However, the third image, of her in a dark red dress, with what > >>appeared to be a dark red surcoat and a high open standing collar > >>partlet, was one I had never seen before. Would someone here be familiar > >>with this image, and know where I can find a copy I can look at better? > > > > Is this the one? > >http://www.songsmyth.com/1560italian/elenorabronzinoc1560.jpg > > > > It's not very big but the page it's from > > (http://www.songsmyth.com/1560italian.html) says it's by Allori c. 1560 > > and it's in the Hermitage Museum. > > > > > >--annora > > > Hi Annora, > > Thanks so much for your search, but this is the one where she looks thin. I > only caught a headshot of this image (or maybe I didn't pay much attention > at that time, I was cooking), but this isn't the one I am looking for. I > didn't realize she wore red in this dress as well. > > The one I am looking for she's healthy looking, and the collar on her > partlet was standing pretty high, had pleats along the edges, and appeared > to be smocked or something inside the partlet with beading. I wish I could > hack our TiVo for the image, but it's the oldest version, so it would ruin > our warranty or something. Ah, for a series 2, so I could download it onto > the computer. > > However, now I know what the the full image of her looking thin is, and > like I mentioned before, I didn't have that one either, so this also did > help me. > > Thanks so much, > > > Kimiko Small > Owner ~ DreamTime Studios > http://www.dreamtime-studios.com > Fresno, CA, USA > > "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 18 07:03:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9IB3mMh016367 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 07:03:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IB3BUo001065 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Oct 2004 05:03:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IB35IJ055691; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 05:03:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IB2rIJ055370 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 05:03:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i9IB2Ua21023.; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 12:02:30 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 12:02:30 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 12:02:20 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] powdered wigs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've not heard of blowing powder from a plate. The version I've heard of is the person going into a "powder closet" with their maid/valet and having powder puffed onto their hair from some kind of bellows device. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> drewscph@post12.tele.dk 16/10/2004 14:59:43 >>> The other day they showed a programme about Marie Antoinette in the television from BBC Prime. There were two maids standing on each side of the queen, who stood naked. They had a plate with powder in front of their mouth, and they blew air on the powder so that it got over to the queen. When the queen had finished, you clearly noticed her footmarks on the floor. I have never seen this before, but wondered if this was a comon thing to do for upperclass? Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 18 08:33:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9ICXQN1018039 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 08:33:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9ICWkUo011126 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Oct 2004 06:32:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9ICWZIJ092199; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 06:32:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9ICWXIJ092120 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 06:32:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-8.13) id A7DA25020072; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 08:32:26 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.102 ([209.131.81.102] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 18 Oct 04 12:32:23 -0000 Message-ID: <001301c4b50f$8b5d4920$665183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4c5accc804101513542c1eecfd@mail.gmail.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20041017153132.02a000f8@64.87.54.245> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Attifet Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 08:39:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Re the 'dart', isn't it possible to slit and remove the excess canvas and then whip the edges together? Seems that the shape would still form. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kimiko Small" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 6:39 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Attifet > At 11:43 AM 10/17/2004 +1000, you wrote: > >I have a huge roll of buckram sitting in my sewing room - got to use it > >for something! If I use it for hats, what do I have to do to prevent hats > >becoming a "mashed mess" if they get wet? > >Thanks, Aylwen > > > The best way to prevent the hats from getting wet, is to take them off > during a rain storm. I guess I am lucky that around here our faires are > usually dry, except for the first spring and last fall one. We are usually > under canvas when it does rain. And since the hats have feathers that get > ratty as well when wet (although they dry just fine), we try to take care > of the hats before the hats get anywhere near "soaked", usually just > misted, with no mishaps or mashed hats so far. There are a few layers of > wadding and fabric over the buckram to get through, so minor mists are > often not a problem. One can also Scotchgard the hats, which usually helps > repel water. It may however, hasten the decay of fabric in the sun. > > However, if rain is a major problem in your area, plastic canvas is a > decent alternative. I had only not recommended it for the attifet, because > in one of my patterns, there is a dart that is sewn down the center to make > the hat dip in front. I don't know how well the plastic canvas would shape > along that dart, as I've only done so using buckram. > > YMMV of course. > > > Kimiko Small > Owner ~ DreamTime Studios > http://www.dreamtime-studios.com > Fresno, CA, USA > > "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 18 09:39:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9IDdxDq019338 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 09:39:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IDbvUo023224 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Oct 2004 07:37:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IDbjIJ023511; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 07:37:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.198]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IDbfIJ023474 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 07:37:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jacquelinejbump@gmail.com) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 78so11629rnl for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 06:37:41 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=JJkupwIz57VJnJN5DBB+msdAFGSKIqiLrbXSt30JYgJ1YjWf3ID094egg1jnndAf2Xz7p6VxYX7CNafQrxJtODCUD2e5bF38LxYsMQ6GpMrHUAJ5TxiyJUd6wmqjqJlGwz4Ji3Uuh54tcGwrYfoeBq66982miqPrMYBNKPGnejU Received: by 10.38.96.30 with SMTP id t30mr1530911rnb; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 06:37:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.14.59 with HTTP; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 06:37:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4c5accc8041018063743ca6615@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 09:37:41 -0400 From: Kristalori History To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Attifet In-Reply-To: <001301c4b50f$8b5d4920$665183d1@rmitchellras> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <4c5accc804101513542c1eecfd@mail.gmail.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20041017153132.02a000f8@64.87.54.245> <001301c4b50f$8b5d4920$665183d1@rmitchellras> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well I've done that and it seems to work. I use either embroidery floss to stitch sections together (I have a hard time getting the really large canvas) or fishing line as well. You can also very gently with a lighter melt the sections together to make sure it stays together. I don't suggest that for the usual method cause it takes practice and plus if you do your floss snug enough it won't fall apart. http://snipurl.com/9uv6 is where I have an example o building a hat with canvas. It's not an attifet but it shows plastic canvas in a project. Bice On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 08:39:43 -0400, Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > Re the 'dart', isn't it possible to slit and remove the excess canvas and > then whip the edges together? Seems that the shape would still form. > Kathleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 18 11:37:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9IFbuHx022094 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 11:37:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IFW5Uo004955 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Oct 2004 09:32:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IFVmjo000526; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 09:31:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from wo-owa2003.wideorbit.com (owa.wideorbit.com [206.184.11.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IFVjjo000253 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 09:31:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from MUnruh-Bays@wideorbit.com) Received: from wo-exch2003.wideorbit.com ([192.168.3.20]) by wo-owa2003.wideorbit.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Mon, 18 Oct 2004 08:31:30 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6944.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: RE: [h-cost] medieval piecing Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 08:31:29 -0700 Message-ID: <175C4793AFE4AB4596D4C17CCC98FD96854DD8@wo-exch2003.wideorbit.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] medieval piecing Thread-Index: AcSzGUQJeKRY0mMETG2UP70Gi8/Y+wCC5CeA From: "Melanie Unruh-Bays" To: "Historical Costume" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Oct 2004 15:31:30.0282 (UTC) FILETIME=[8A5B7CA0:01C4B527] X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i9IFVjjo000253 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com > [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Cynthia Virtue > Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 6:40 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: [h-cost] medieval piecing > > > Melanie Unruh-Bays wrote: > > > It's true. I have seen, with my own little eye, a Medieval > cope of red > > velvet that had been pieced in every-which-way, without regard to > > direction of nap. The person or persons who made it didn't > even pay much > > attention to regular-sized or symmetrical piecing. > > Chicago Institute of Art? Or maybe there's two of them! > > Also seen there: voided velvet with gold-ground brocade, just like in > some of the fancier oil paintings, fuschia silk with gold > polka dots.... > (http://www.virtue.to/articles/real_fabrics.html) > That cope sounds like an accurate description of what I saw. I don't know where it "lives" but it was on tour in Denver as a part of an English art exhibition. Although it was the only extant pre-1600 garment in the show, there were a few portraits of interest. The large majority of the show was post-1600, and so I had the luxury of extra time to examine the cope and the pair of somewhat contemporary illuminated pages. Which is fine; I prefer to really study a few pieces, rather than to have to get a sense of a whole bunch. Treasures of the Czars was like that, too. [1] What I find interesting is that I - being a product of the twentieth century - suggested that naps or one-way designs wouldn't be suitable for the layout that I recommended because it's currently considered proper technique. Even though I *know* that it wasn't necessarily a consideration for medieval tailors, it didn't occur to me as I was writing it. Sometimes I have to remind myself of these things... :-) Eirene [1] BTW, I don't recall the 16th cent. dalmatica in Czars to have been pieced in the same fashion as that English cope. I only wish I could have taken pictures of *that* one! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 18 11:46:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9IFko6j022265 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 11:46:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IFjxUo006687 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Oct 2004 09:45:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IFjlFB012124; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 09:45:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-04-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (ms-smtp-04-smtplb.ohiordc.rr.com [65.24.5.138]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IFjjFB012094 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 09:45:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ailith@neo.rr.com) Received: from duncan (dhcp024-209-056-164.neo.rr.com [24.209.56.164]) by ms-smtp-04-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id i9IFjfHI014499 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 11:45:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001a01c4b529$8145ac10$1902a8c0@duncan> From: "ailith" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.1.1.0.20041017231633.00b158b8@64.87.54.245> <175C4793AFE4AB4596D4C17CCC98FD96854DD1@wo-exch2003.wideorbit.com> <41706DE3.1070606@thibault.org> <5.2.1.1.0.20041017231633.00b158b8@64.87.54.245> <5.2.1.1.0.20041018005632.02520008@64.87.54.245> <001701c4b4fd$29c46980$1902a8c0@duncan> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 11:45:30 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Younger Eleonora in red X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ok...it's at http://geocities.com/brendoken/eleonora.html This is an old site that I own...there's nothing there but Eleonora now. I don't know how long y'all will be able to download the pictures without overrunning the bandwidth. I did have it loaded on one of the free sites and it yarked after one look at the hi-rez image (300 ppi). kate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 18 12:05:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9IG5DlM022631 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 12:05:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IG3CUo009026 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Oct 2004 10:03:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IG34FB027138; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 10:03:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m15.mx.aol.com (imo-m15.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.205]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IG31FB027011 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 10:03:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.100.401a322 (18251) for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 12:02:47 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <100.401a322.2ea54327@aol.com> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 12:02:47 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] powdered wigs To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 10/16/2004 10:35:13 AM Eastern Standard Time, suzi@suziclarke.co.uk writes: > There are pictures and cartoons of hair powder being blown at men in the > Richard Corson book from which I quoted. Remember that scene in the opening of "Dangerous Liaisons"? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 18 12:48:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9IGmSjB023584 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 12:48:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IGiRUo020852 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Oct 2004 10:44:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IGiFFB061363; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 10:44:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-03-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (ms-smtp-03-smtplb.ohiordc.rr.com [65.24.5.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IGiCFB061297 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 10:44:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ailith@neo.rr.com) Received: from duncan (dhcp024-209-056-164.neo.rr.com [24.209.56.164]) by ms-smtp-03-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id i9IGi6wa007710 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 12:44:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002101c4b531$a9ff43c0$1902a8c0@duncan> From: "ailith" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 12:43:56 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Younger Eleonora in red X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I sent this over an hour ago and it hasn't shown up yet, so I'm resending without an active url in case that's the problem. Ok...it's at (no www, just http://) geocities.com/brendoken/eleonora.html This is an old site that I own...there's nothing there but Eleonora now. I don't know how long y'all will be able to download the pictures without overrunning the bandwidth. I did have it loaded on one of the free sites and it yarked after one look at the hi-rez image (300 ppi). kate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 18 13:02:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9IH2jxX023829 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 13:02:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IGxAUo024696 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Oct 2004 10:59:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IGwdFB073239; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 10:58:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IGwbFB073175 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 10:58:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brujne@creighton.edu) Received: from cindyabel (cla53081.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA13979 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 11:58:33 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 11:58:33 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20041017231633.00b158b8@64.87.54.245> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Eleanora of Toledo and her gown X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I caught this show on Sunday night. I started on a version of Elenora's dress(from Arnold)some years ago and am in the process of redoing it as I've gained some weight which will probably be around in some form or another until I hit retirement age if maternal heredity comes out. I also found the remainder of a matching bolt of fabric and rest of the discontinued braid on sale so I can do the oversleeves like those on the statue pictured in Arnold and widen the skirt. My gown is green and a cotton-rayon brocade. I did build the corset into the gown(ok it is incorrect--but humidity and heat at the local RenFaire in Iowa has caused even uncorseted females to pass out), but the gown has handworked eyelet holes--jewelry jump rings of the right size make marvelous reinforcements on either side of each hole and once I(finally) got both jump rings aligned and anchored with a few stitches, it doesn't take too long to have each eyelet done. Test each eyelet with the lacing before it is completely finished to make sure your planned lacing goes through. I found thin men's dress shoe lacing at lengths long enough to do all the lacing. (Again, incorrect, but when I first wore the gown a few years ago, even some SCA members were checking it out and were impressed that I sewed the thing by hand.). Question: Is there a biog of Eleanor(a) that exists? The special just had she was under 5' tall, gave birth eleven times, came from a wealthy family, died at about 40, probably of tuberculosis. I located a few websites that cover some of her portraits and one mentions what we would term a psychiatric disorder and depression. But I take website info with a grain of salt unless bibliographic sources are cited. Supposedly, she was supposed to have died of a broken heart as she died shortly after two of her sons--I won't give away any more info for those of you on the list who haven't seen the special yet. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 18 15:23:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9IJNMFS025824 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:23:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IJMdUo012163 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Oct 2004 13:22:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IJMU5V088974; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 13:22:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from lakermmtao07.cox.net (lakermmtao07.cox.net [68.230.240.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IJMR5V088871 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 13:22:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from vmaa2@cox.net) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.10.139.124]) by lakermmtao07.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.04 201-2131-111-106-20040729) with ESMTP id <20041018192221.PUJH3371.lakermmtao07.cox.net@VMAAHQ> for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:22:21 -0400 From: "Linda Rice" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] powdered wigs Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:21:52 -0400 Message-ID: <00ec01c4b547$b96eac40$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I wonder if that is the origin of our phrase "powder room"? Only now we use it to refer generally to the restroom. I always thought it meant "the place to powder one's nose" but maybe not! Pax, ::Linda:: -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Kate M Bunting Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 7:02 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] powdered wigs I've not heard of blowing powder from a plate. The version I've heard of is the person going into a "powder closet" with their maid/valet and having powder puffed onto their hair from some kind of bellows device. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 18 15:24:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9IJOrKs025845 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:24:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IJOFUo012379 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Oct 2004 13:24:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IJOD5V090324; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 13:24:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from lakermmtao07.cox.net (lakermmtao07.cox.net [68.230.240.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IJMY5V088966 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 13:22:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from vmaa2@cox.net) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.10.139.124]) by lakermmtao07.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.04 201-2131-111-106-20040729) with ESMTP id <20041018192228.PULD3371.lakermmtao07.cox.net@VMAAHQ> for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:22:28 -0400 From: "Linda Rice" To: Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:21:52 -0400 Message-ID: <00ed01c4b547$bcfb0750$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i9IJMY5V088966 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Virginia 1830 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all- Checking in from Lurkville to ask (beg) a little help with a new project. I've recently started to get more involved with one of the local historic houses here in Virginia. While the original parts of the house are early 18th century, the house saw it's -for lack of a better term- heyday in the 1820 to 1850 period. The board has voted to aim for the 1830's as the decade they want their docents and helpers to dress in. I've been looking for several days now, and have run into a few little snags. One, it seems like there isn't a whole heck of a lot of information around for the 1830's, and what there is seems to be mainly upper class. What I need are images and information on what a rural river/coastal plantation family in Virginia would be wearing on a daily basis, as work clothes as well as "Sunday clothes". These docents are making soap, candles, digging in the garden, and next summer they will have "History Camp" again. They don't need fancy frills, they need real work clothes, both male and female. In addition to clothing patterns and advice, any recommendations on the general lifestyle of this period would also be most welcome. Any and all suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thanks! Pax, ::Linda:: "And this our life, exempt from public haunt, finds tongues in trees, books in running brooks, sermons in stones, and good in everything." -Shakespeare _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 18 16:15:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9IKFsTL026578 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:15:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IK5BUo017359 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Oct 2004 14:05:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IK515V023698; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 14:05:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm01.prodigy.net (ylpvm01-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IK4w5V023649 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 14:04:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-87-81.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.87.81]) by ylpvm01.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IK4ot0032319 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:04:50 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20041018125656.0254db78@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 12:58:42 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Virginia 1830 In-Reply-To: <00ed01c4b547$bcfb0750$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >1820 to 1850 period. The board has voted to aim for the 1830's as the >decade they want their >docents and helpers to dress in. Look for painters active about then. There were some great rural scenes and town street scenes painted about then. Just don't ask me to name the artists. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 18 16:17:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9IKHeJM026655 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:17:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IK95ZK017837 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Oct 2004 14:17:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IJrV5V014302; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 13:53:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tomts25-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts25-srv.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.188]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IJrS5V014240 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 13:53:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dluckham@sympatico.ca) Received: from Main.sympatico.ca ([64.231.205.156]) by tomts25-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with ESMTP id <20041018195255.UMYE1536.tomts25-srv.bellnexxia.net@Main.sympatico.ca> for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:52:55 -0400 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20041018155148.00cbadc0@pop8.sympatico.ca> X-Sender: b1jerw63@pop8.sympatico.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:52:41 -0400 To: h-costume@net.indra.com From: Dawn Luckham Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Virginia 1830's X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is something I know a LITTLE about! I cannot tell you about Virginia specifically, but I've always thought the 1830's would be a difficult period to try to show as the styles made a semi dramatic change mid decade. Cotton was huge. Specifically, printed cottons were extremely popular due to the availability and adorability of fabrics from the cotton industry. Printing methods had advanced and there was a wide range of very pretty floral cottons. The gigot sleeve continued in popularity from the previous decade. This was the wide, very puffy sleeve that had been popular at the end of the 1820's. This sleeve was sometimes so large it needed to be supported by rattan or down (almost like a bustle for the arm) padding. ( I can't imagine wearing these down filled pads in Virginia in the summer!) The sleeve grew larger and larger (it sometimes was called the "imbecile" - one can only imagine why). The semi-dramatic change came when, in 1836, the sleeve suddenly "collapsed". At this point women unattached their sleeves from their dresses and used a variety of treatments (smocking, gathering, tucking, pleating, banding) to bring the very full sleeve to a tight fitting sleeve around the upper arm. I have been collecting images from all different sources of these imaginative sleeve treatments for several years now. So, I would suggest that you need to find out if you will be presenting the time before 1836 or after. As a basic pattern source and good beginning, I would highly recommend you obtain a copy of Past Patterns Lowell Mill pattern, if you haven't already. There's some really good research information included with the pattern. I don't know how close you are to D.C. but the Smithsonian has some very nice examples of this period in their collection. I'm sure there are a million other museums in the area that do as well. It sounds like a really fun project. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 18 16:21:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9IKLABF026755 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:21:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IKKKUo019767 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Oct 2004 14:20:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IKKH5V035838; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 14:20:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:1W4Eti7viAYUwF4/wZlYgyq9tHjMhlow@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IKKF5V035796 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 14:20:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from webmail.patriot.net (vanburen.patriot.net [209.249.176.8]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id i9IKKDtR015499 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:20:13 -0400 Received: from dci012034012049.discovery.com ([12.34.12.49]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user aquazoo) by webmail.patriot.net with HTTP; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:20:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <50335.12.34.12.49.1098130813.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20041018125656.0254db78@mail.frys.com> References: <00ed01c4b547$bcfb0750$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> <4.3.1.2.20041018125656.0254db78@mail.frys.com> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:20:13 -0400 (EDT) From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] So many years out of fashion... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi everyone, There's a list we all saw back in Costume History class, it was how many years since a fashion is introduced and how it's viewed by people. I remember it as being something like One day - avant garde One month - smart One year - dowdy Two years - hideous and goes on until 150 years - beautiful Does anyone have this list and would you either post a link to a website or otherwise let me know where I can find it? I don't know which historian came up with it, but I first saw it in the late 70s. The reason I'm asking - in my department every Friday, they have an Ugly Shirt contest. So far I have only seen one actual ugly shirt. I think my interest in costume history has led me to have an appreciation for all eras, and I completely lost the idea that clothing of a certain age should be considered unattractive. Instead I'm seeing cool vintage wear on Fridays. Oh the humanity! Thanks! -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 18 16:26:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9IKQuQM026818 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:26:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IKQGUo020429 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Oct 2004 14:26:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IKQ85V040427; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 14:26:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m15.mx.aol.com (imo-m15.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.205]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IKQ65V040322 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 14:26:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.1da.2dddf874 (3996) for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:25:56 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1da.2dddf874.2ea580d3@aol.com> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:25:55 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Virginia 1830 To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 10/18/2004 4:05:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, kayta@frys.com writes: > Look for painters active about then. There were some great rural scenes > and town street scenes painted about then. Just don't ask me to name the > artists. > And when doing this don't forget those wonderful "primitive" rural paintings. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 18 16:51:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9IKpXi5027059 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:51:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IKorUo023368 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Oct 2004 14:50:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IKol5V060277; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 14:50:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m14.mx.aol.com (imo-m14.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.204]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IKok5V060193 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 14:50:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.156.419c0468 (3996) for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:50:36 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <156.419c0468.2ea5869c@aol.com> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:50:36 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Virginia 1830's To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 10/18/2004 4:22:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, dluckham@sympatico.ca writes: > As a basic pattern source and good beginning, I would highly recommend you > obtain a copy of Past Patterns Lowell Mill pattern, if you haven't already. > There's some really good research information included with the pattern. Indeed! I'd say rich or poor, the basic cut of a gown or coat is the same. It's the details and fabric that make the difference. I remember a dress I found in a junk shop here in NC was 1830s....all hand sewn...slightly high waist very full sleeves with 4 or 5 rows of ruching at the top maybe a quarter of an inch apart, and a 6" or so wide conical cuff the bottom gathered into. The dress was of medium weight white cotton with indigo flowers spotted all over very far apart. The bodice was gathered to the self fabric waistband front and back. The lining had two long, deep darts at an angle that went higher than bust point each side of CF. It closed CF with little brass hooks and thread bars that were lost in the gathers. The attached skirt closed CF too. The skirt was short-ish....maybe 38" to the hem and only about 3 1/2 yards around. It was very beautiful but very plain and showed signs of wear. I remember all this because I was gonna buy it from the clueless seller for the $60 she was asking. I had zero money and asked my Father if I could have $60. "What for?" "A dress" "NO!". I got funds from elsewhere but in the hour that took, it was gone....damnit! > It sounds like a really fun project. > Dawn > Yes indeed it does. Have fun! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 18 16:54:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9IKsGp8027089 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:54:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IKqtUo023631 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Oct 2004 14:52:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IKqt5V061997; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 14:52:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IKqn5V061926 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 14:52:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brujne@creighton.edu) Received: from cindyabel (cla53081.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA04232 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:52:48 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] So many years out of fashion... Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:52:47 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <50335.12.34.12.49.1098130813.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I believe this was in one of James Laver's books on costume history. Can't recall which one. I think the list is slightly different from yours--one year ahead = avant garde/ six months = ugly /same year = a la mode/ one year = dowdy etc. This listing might be out-of-date as today's fashion can go from avant garde to hideous in one year or less and a fashion can return to the catwalks as new and beautiful within a dozen years. If the old fashion mantra held true, we'd be in 1854 fashions right now....well, guess we are--a little bit with fuller skirts and cinched waists being permitted as a fashion option. Looking forward twenty years for the return of the bustle. "Does this dress make my butt look big...enough?" Cindy Abel -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of aquazoo@patriot.net Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 3:20 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] So many years out of fashion... Hi everyone, There's a list we all saw back in Costume History class, it was how many years since a fashion is introduced and how it's viewed by people. I remember it as being something like One day - avant garde One month - smart One year - dowdy Two years - hideous and goes on until 150 years - beautiful Does anyone have this list and would you either post a link to a website or otherwise let me know where I can find it? I don't know which historian came up with it, but I first saw it in the late 70s. The reason I'm asking - in my department every Friday, they have an Ugly Shirt contest. So far I have only seen one actual ugly shirt. I think my interest in costume history has led me to have an appreciation for all eras, and I completely lost the idea that clothing of a certain age should be considered unattractive. Instead I'm seeing cool vintage wear on Fridays. Oh the humanity! Thanks! -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 18 17:49:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9ILn7qk027874 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:49:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9ILmSUo000608 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:48:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9ILmI5V006182; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:48:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:UcafXteKo8gg+WGo6TlvMwW84UWx8MD5@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9ILmE5V006122 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:48:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from webmail.patriot.net (vanburen.patriot.net [209.249.176.8]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id i9ILmEtR019038 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:48:14 -0400 Received: from dci012034012049.discovery.com ([12.34.12.49]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user aquazoo) by webmail.patriot.net with HTTP; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:48:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <50714.12.34.12.49.1098136094.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: References: <50335.12.34.12.49.1098130813.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:48:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: RE: [h-cost] So many years out of fashion... From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks, I'll see if I can track down a copy! I was just going by what I could remember and didn't figure it was accurate to the original. :-) I'm curious if there is an "ugly" time according to Laver so I can better appreciate Ugly Shirt Friday. -Carol > I believe this was in one of James Laver's books on costume history. Can't > recall which one. I think the list is slightly different from yours--one > year ahead = avant garde/ six months = ugly /same year = a la mode/ one > year = dowdy etc. > > This listing might be out-of-date as today's fashion can go from avant > garde to hideous in one year or less and a fashion can return to the > catwalks as new and beautiful within a dozen years. If the old fashion > mantra held true, we'd be in 1854 fashions right now....well, guess we > are--a little bit with fuller skirts and cinched waists being permitted as > a fashion option. Looking forward twenty years for the return of the bustle. > "Does this dress make my butt look big...enough?" > > Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 18 17:59:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9ILxgDC028018 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:59:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9ILwvUo002105 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:58:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9ILwr5V014322; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:58:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9ILwn5W014263 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:58:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-172.sonic.net [209.148.114.172]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i9ILwfEH030575 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 14:58:46 -0700 Message-ID: <41743C8E.7020205@lavoltapress.com> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 14:58:38 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] So many years out of fashion... References: <50335.12.34.12.49.1098130813.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> <50714.12.34.12.49.1098136094.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <50714.12.34.12.49.1098136094.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Maybe, if you like the shirts, you could just ask to buy them cheap if the owners think they are so ugly! Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 18 18:27:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9IMRUnV028390 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 18:27:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IMQdUo005175 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:26:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IMQa5V034280; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:26:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:h65H9oi00S4Ty0KT/umatFk3+0+pQMmC@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IMQX5V034242 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:26:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from webmail.patriot.net (vanburen.patriot.net [209.249.176.8]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id i9IMQWtR015796 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 18:26:32 -0400 Received: from dci012034012049.discovery.com ([12.34.12.49]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user aquazoo) by webmail.patriot.net with HTTP; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 18:26:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <50852.12.34.12.49.1098138392.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <41743C8E.7020205@lavoltapress.com> References: <50335.12.34.12.49.1098130813.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> <50714.12.34.12.49.1098136094.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> <41743C8E.7020205@lavoltapress.com> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 18:26:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] So many years out of fashion... From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Even though they think the shirts are ugly, they have an interest in wearing the ugliest one, so they may not let them go cheap. One guy even bought a new shirt he thought was ugly. also if I bought them up I would deprive myself of the fashion parade, though I'm sure they would find more... Meanwhile has anyone seen the prices on "vintage" T-shirts? I don't know where 20-25 years falls on the James Laver scale... > Maybe, if you like the shirts, you could just ask to buy them cheap if > the owners think they are so ugly! > > Fran _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 18 18:37:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9IMbkxx028539 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 18:37:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IMb2Uo006437 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:37:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IMao5V041338; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:36:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IMaF5V040887 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:36:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1CJg6l-000Npc-8n for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 22:36:03 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 23:34:44 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] So many years out of fashion... References: <50335.12.34.12.49.1098130813.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm getting to the point where I don't know what I'm seeing - is this a revival of the 40's, or a revival of the 80's revival of the 40's? The circle is no longer chasing its tail, it's chasing the back of its neck! Jean Cindy Abel wrote >I believe this was in one of James Laver's books on costume history. Can't >recall which one. I think the list is slightly different from yours--one >year ahead = avant garde/ six months = ugly /same year = a la mode/ one year >= dowdy etc. > >This listing might be out-of-date as today's fashion can go from avant garde >to hideous in one year or less and a fashion can return to the catwalks as >new and beautiful within a dozen years. If the old fashion mantra held >true, we'd be in 1854 fashions right now....well, guess we are--a little bit >with fuller skirts and cinched waists being permitted as a fashion option. >Looking forward twenty years for the return of the bustle. "Does this dress >make my butt look big...enough?" > >Cindy Abel > >-----Original Message----- >From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On >Behalf Of aquazoo@patriot.net >Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 3:20 PM >To: Historical Costume >Subject: [h-cost] So many years out of fashion... > > > >Hi everyone, > > There's a list we all saw back in Costume History class, it was how >many years since a fashion is introduced and how it's viewed by >people. I remember it as being something like > >One day - avant garde >One month - smart >One year - dowdy >Two years - hideous >and goes on until >150 years - beautiful > > Does anyone have this list and would you either post a link to a >website or otherwise let me know where I can find it? I don't know >which historian came up with it, but I first saw it in the late 70s. > > The reason I'm asking - in my department every Friday, they have an >Ugly Shirt contest. So far I have only seen one actual ugly shirt. >I think my interest in costume history has led me to have an >appreciation for all eras, and I completely lost the idea that >clothing of a certain age should be considered unattractive. Instead >I'm seeing cool vintage wear on Fridays. Oh the humanity! > > Thanks! > -Carol >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 18 18:46:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9IMkMxL028637 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 18:46:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IMilUo007191 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:44:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IMih5V046427; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:44:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from peaches.princessharold.net (haroldk-host177.dsl.visi.com [208.42.100.177]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IMiY5V046327 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:44:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gwen@princessharold.net) Received: from princessharold.net (bob.princessharold.net [192.168.0.4]) by peaches.princessharold.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 950F0889 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:33:46 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <417442FF.3090109@princessharold.net> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:26:07 -0500 From: Gwen Kachelmyer User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian corset patterns References: <200410132340.i9DNevjM036897@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: <200410132340.i9DNevjM036897@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I haven't tried the Mantua Maker's one, unfortunately. A lot of people swear by Laughing Moon's pattern, but I haven't been as happy with it. I was making a corset for a friend of mine who is naturally curvy to begin with and even with the bust and hip gores it seemed to just flatten out her curves rather than accentuate them. I like the Past Patterns #213 Victorian corset. the shape is closer to 1880's and gives a nice hourglass shape, even on me -Gwen rreed@indirectobject.com wrote: >Hi there, > >I would like to find out if anyone has had experience with the >Mantua-Maker's 1870-1895 corset pattern? Are there any better patterns out >there for this era? > >Thanks, >Becky > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 18 18:51:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9IMptVu028706 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 18:51:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IMkDUo007299 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:46:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IMkC5V047361; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:46:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9IMja5W046957 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:45:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-172.sonic.net [209.148.114.172]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i9IMjYIH012432 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:45:35 -0700 Message-ID: <4174478E.1020004@lavoltapress.com> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:45:34 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] So many years out of fashion... References: <50335.12.34.12.49.1098130813.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> <50714.12.34.12.49.1098136094.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> <41743C8E.7020205@lavoltapress.com> <50852.12.34.12.49.1098138392.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <50852.12.34.12.49.1098138392.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think style recycling has sped up since Laver's day. The fashion industry is reviving the 1950s and 1960s both at once, and even making hints at the 70s. They're going to run out of eras at this rate. I've never bought a real vintage T-shirt, but I have a weakness for modern T-shirts with misty prints of old magazine and sheet music covers. What modern clothing manufacturers think is a hippie T-shirt. My new vintage enthusiasm is furs. (Well, it's not entirely new, but it's more intense than usual.) Most of the time, you can get a used fur in very good shape_much_ cheaper than a new fur. It's like every middle-class matron in the 1950s and 1960s had at least one mink stole. (Some matrons, judging from what eBay sellers say about estates they bought, had several furs.) And now those furs are all over eBay. Mink is really durable if kept well. And it's a rather short-haired fur, so it doesn't make you look like a furball, which is a problem I have with very long furs if used in quantity. San Francisco is too warm for fur coats, so I'm looking for stoles and cropped jackets. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com aquazoo@patriot.net wrote: > > > Meanwhile has anyone seen the prices on "vintage" T-shirts? I don't >know where 20-25 years falls on the James Laver scale... > > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 18 19:38:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9INcFxY029340 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 19:38:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9INbeUo011704 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:37:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9INbQ5V077217; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:37:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com (adsl-065-013-105-239.sip.tys.bellsouth.net [65.13.105.239]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9INbO5V077170 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:37:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i9INwEBf021759 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 19:58:14 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: (from sfarmer@localhost) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3/Submit) id i9INwEuL021758 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 19:58:14 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 19:58:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Farmer Message-Id: <200410182358.i9INwEuL021758@sabre.goldsword.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Henry VIII and Tudor sleeves In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20041017152735.00b154c0@64.87.54.245> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > At 04:14 PM 10/15/2004 -0400, you wrote: > > > > could this be the one you are thinking of: > > > > http://www.marileecody.com/francis.jpg > > > > Doesn't give a variety of views, but there is the back view of the > > > > boys in front. > > > >My account has been off-line (ISP "seamless transition") so I don't know > >if this was answered before -- and idea of who painted this painting? > > > >Thanks. > >Jerusha > > > My books don't state who the painter was. Ah, yes. As we refer to "him" at my house -- it was done by the famous "Algernon Nonymous" more comonly known as A. nonymous ..... Thanks for checking! Jerusha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 18 19:48:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9INmahd029459 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 19:48:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9INlxUo012947 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:47:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9INlt5V083020; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:47:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com (adsl-065-013-105-239.sip.tys.bellsouth.net [65.13.105.239]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9INlp5V082983 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:47:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i9J08iBf021909 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:08:44 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: (from sfarmer@localhost) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3/Submit) id i9J08iRY021908 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:08:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:08:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Farmer Message-Id: <200410190008.i9J08iRY021908@sabre.goldsword.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Medici Family In-Reply-To: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > > two I had seen before, although I don't have an image of her looking thin. > > However, the third image, of her in a dark red dress, with what appeared to > > be a dark red surcoat and a high open standing collar partlet, was one I had > > never seen before. Would someone here be familiar with this image, and know > > where I can find a copy I can look at better? > > Is this the one? > http://www.songsmyth.com/1560italian/elenorabronzinoc1560.jpg > > It's not very big but the page it's from > (http://www.songsmyth.com/1560italian.html) says it's by Allori c. 1560 > and it's in the Hermitage Museum. I think that she has her captions reversed on the last two images in that row. The file name on the middle image is "eleanorabronzinoc1560.jpg" and the other one is identified -in the file name- as Allori. Jerusha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 18 19:53:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9INrk0A029468 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 19:53:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9INrBUo013438 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:53:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9INr75V085687; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:53:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com (adsl-065-013-105-239.sip.tys.bellsouth.net [65.13.105.239]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9INr45V085653 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:53:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i9J0DvBf021948 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:13:57 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: (from sfarmer@localhost) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3/Submit) id i9J0DvPR021947 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:13:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:13:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Farmer Message-Id: <200410190013.i9J0DvPR021947@sabre.goldsword.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Medici Family In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20041018005632.02520008@64.87.54.245> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > At 09:01 PM 10/17/2004 -1000, you wrote: > >>two I had seen before, although I don't have an image of her looking > >>thin. However, the third image, of her in a dark red dress, with what > >>appeared to be a dark red surcoat and a high open standing collar > >>partlet, was one I had never seen before. Would someone here be familiar > >>with this image, and know where I can find a copy I can look at better? > > > > Thanks so much for your search, but this is the one where she looks thin. I > only caught a headshot of this image (or maybe I didn't pay much attention > at that time, I was cooking), but this isn't the one I am looking for. I > didn't realize she wore red in this dress as well. > > The one I am looking for she's healthy looking, and the collar on her > partlet was standing pretty high, had pleats along the edges, and appeared > to be smocked or something inside the partlet with beading. I wish I could > hack our TiVo for the image, but it's the oldest version, so it would ruin > our warranty or something. Ah, for a series 2, so I could download it onto > the computer. I bet maybe it's this image It's the centerpiece is a wall of paintings! Jerusha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 18 20:34:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9J0YFZJ029797 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:34:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9J0VjUo016371 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Oct 2004 18:31:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9J0Vd5V005349; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 18:31:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9J0VZ5W005329 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 18:31:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i9J0cvva018446 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:38:58 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] So many years out of fashion... Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:44:41 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <00ed01c4b547$bcfb0750$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> <4.3.1.2.20041018125656.0254db78@mail.frys.com> <50335.12.34.12.49.1098130813.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <50335.12.34.12.49.1098130813.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200410182044.41608.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday 18 October 2004 4:20 pm, aquazoo@patriot.net wrote: [snip] > I think my interest in costume history has led me to have an > appreciation for all eras, and I completely lost the idea that > clothing of a certain age should be considered unattractive. With, IMHO, the possible exception of shirts from the 1970s. I cannot remember some of the clothes I wore with pride back then without wincing. :-) -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 18 21:29:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9J1T6hM030406 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:29:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9J1P9Uo019802 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Oct 2004 19:25:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9J1P35V030455; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 19:25:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web51309.mail.yahoo.com (web51309.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.175]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9J1P05V030383 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 19:25:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elvestoorder@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20041019012454.19647.qmail@web51309.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.237.165.110] by web51309.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 18:24:54 PDT Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 18:24:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Ann Catelli Subject: OSV Re: [h-cost] Virginia 1830 To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <00ed01c4b547$bcfb0750$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Old Sturbridge Village, Sturbridge, Massachusetts, 1830's rural New England, an outdoor living history museum--clothes & living both. http://www.osv.org/ --- Linda Rice wrote: > 1830's as the decade they want their > docents and helpers to dress in. > ::Linda:: __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 18 21:39:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9J1dlW7030611 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:39:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9J1ZoUo020559 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Oct 2004 19:35:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9J1Zk5V035617; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 19:35:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm15.prodigy.net (ylpvm15-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9J1Zi5V035588 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 19:35:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-87-81.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.87.81]) by ylpvm15.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9J1ZnWp004281 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:35:55 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20041018183248.027334d8@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 18:35:26 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: OSV Re: [h-cost] Virginia 1830 In-Reply-To: <20041019012454.19647.qmail@web51309.mail.yahoo.com> References: <00ed01c4b547$bcfb0750$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Old Sturbridge Village, Sturbridge, Massachusetts, >1830's rural New England, an outdoor living history >museum--clothes & living both. I've heard about Conner Prarie too, someplace in the "Midwest". IIRC they do early 1800s. www.connerprairie.org CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 18 23:20:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9J3Kipj031724 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 23:20:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9J3JwUo028564 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:19:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9J3Jj5V088628; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:19:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9J3Jg5V088586 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:19:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD779114B3 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:19:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041018183403.0291d270@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 18:38:49 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Younger Eleonora in red In-Reply-To: <001a01c4b529$8145ac10$1902a8c0@duncan> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20041017231633.00b158b8@64.87.54.245> <175C4793AFE4AB4596D4C17CCC98FD96854DD1@wo-exch2003.wideorbit.com> <41706DE3.1070606@thibault.org> <5.2.1.1.0.20041017231633.00b158b8@64.87.54.245> <5.2.1.1.0.20041018005632.02520008@64.87.54.245> <001701c4b4fd$29c46980$1902a8c0@duncan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:45 AM 10/18/2004 -0400, you wrote: >Ok...it's at http://geocities.com/brendoken/eleonora.html > >This is an old site that I own...there's nothing there but Eleonora >now. > >I don't know how long y'all will be able to download the pictures >without overrunning the bandwidth. I did have it loaded on one of the >free sites and it yarked after one look at the hi-rez image (300 ppi). > >kate Hello Kate, Oh, yes, that's it!!! Thank you thank you thankyou!! I tried to download the 5 meg image (300 dpi) as I wanted to see parts of the image up close (like that lovely partlet), but I am unable to access it through the web site. However, when I try to access it, geocities is stating that the image is unavailable, probably what you mentioned about it's file size. If you are willing and have the upload speed, can you email me the larger image privately? (kimiko at kimiko1 dot com) I have DSL and my own server space, so I should be able to access the image ok via e-mail. If not, don't worry about it. You have given me enough info to track the image in book format. Thanks so very much. Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 19 00:50:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9J4o3Am000843 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 00:50:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9J4nNUo005637 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Oct 2004 22:49:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9J4nD5V033217; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 22:49:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from audiogram.mail.pas.earthlink.net (audiogram.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.253]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9J4n85V033164 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 22:49:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from dialup-4.152.84.55.dial1.atlanta1.level3.net ([4.152.84.55] helo=MOM) by audiogram.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CJlvn-0002H7-75 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:49:08 -0700 Message-ID: <00d101c4b596$f62813c0$0300a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1da.2dddf874.2ea580d3@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Virginia 1830 Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 00:49:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 140fedcc4d524cc6b18d26c2e407058b94f5150ab1c16ac08f4233f47979de2691da27373f9ec7c515d1fa0776ae062c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.152.84.55 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i9J4o3Am000843 Status: RO Hi Linda, You might want to make a trip to Richmond to the Virginia State Library. It is now located next to city hall. They have a wealth of information about the state. You might also want to check into their genealogical records. They copy photos of paintings, diaries, etc. from people researching their family's history and stores them on in an area of the Library. You do not need to be a family member to pull the records. Another place you might want to research is the Virginia Historical Society on the Blvd. in Richmond. They also have a wealth of information. I do recall hearing that the tidewater area for a long time in the state's history that THE place to live for a long time because of the rich soil for farming. Virginia has a lot of historical societies, and does not just keep up with society people. If Charlene B. is still on h-costume, she knows a lot about the state's history and landowners. She researches professionally land titles all over VA for title companies. She could probably give you some insight as to where to research. I know the Valentine Museum has a massive image collection. Unfortunately they no longer have curators for the image or costume collections. And if you come to Richmond, you do have to go to lunch or dinner with me! I haven't seen you in a long time. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Online Reference Library, AND Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumegallery.com/research.htm www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 19 02:09:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9J69qma004401 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 02:09:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9J689Uo010731 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Oct 2004 00:08:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9J67w5V068875; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 00:07:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from indirectobject.com (066-241-084-045.bus.ashlandfiber.net [66.241.84.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9J64J5V066993 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 00:04:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rreed@indirectobject.com) Message-Id: <200410190604.i9J64J5V066993@net.indra.com> Received: from synergy ([192.168.1.1]) by indirectobject.com (WWW [192.168.1.200]) (MDaemon.PRO.v6.8.5.R) with ESMTP id 12-md50000000003.tmp for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 23:03:25 -0700 From: To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Eleanora of Toledo and her gown Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 23:03:26 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AcS1NH8wlNYWraFmRP+K1DtII5g8MgAbGz3Q X-Spam-Processed: WWW, Mon, 18 Oct 2004 23:03:25 -0700 (not processed: message from valid local sender) X-MDRemoteIP: 192.168.1.1 X-Return-Path: rreed@indirectobject.com X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: h-costume@indra.com X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Eleanora is so hard to find out anything about! I did several searches, and came up mostly with stuff on her husband. Oh well, I guess it really is "HIS"tory. Anyway, Dr. Brier is one of my favorite archaeologists, and I was happy to hear he was on this special. The TLC article did say the clothing they found would be examined further. The show is on again a few more time on TLC over the next week or so. Becky -----Original Message----- Question: Is there a biog of Eleanor(a) that exists? The special just had she was under 5' tall, gave birth eleven times, came from a wealthy family, died at about 40, probably of tuberculosis. I located a few websites that cover some of her portraits and one mentions what we would term a psychiatric disorder and depression. But I take website info with a grain of salt unless bibliographic sources are cited. Supposedly, she was supposed to have died of a broken heart as she died shortly after two of her sons--I won't give away any more info for those of you on the list who haven't seen the special yet. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 19 07:30:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9JBUdmY009387 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 07:30:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JBQgUo002786 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Oct 2004 05:26:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JBPc5V016039; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 05:25:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.254.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JBOo5V015367 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 05:24:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:23:59 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII and Tudor sleeves To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3BC8@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII and Tudor sleeves Thread-Index: AcSyGFPVtpr9yh+UQ/uT8jMWB86ExgDtQwBw content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.20 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII and Tudor sleeves > >His hose should be pointed to it around the waist (to hold them up) - > >that would prevent it (the doublet) from riding up > > I do know what *should* be, but you try telling that to a customer who is > having problem getting hose in the first place. In fact the portrait seems > to indicate stockings rolled over a garter, rather than full length hose. Trunk hose and seperate lower hose, yep, makes sense. > He also wanted the trunk hose to fasten with a cod piece and with points, > but not to the doublet, as he was doing a lot of archery demonstrations, > and found the "laced-up" thing rather restricting, especially with the big > coat as well as everything else!! > > Me, I just do what I'm paid for, after giving advice, naturally Yep - and with a paying customer, what they want is what they want.... Though, I'm sure I remember something in Arnold about hooks and eyes repla cing points for fastening the trunks tot he doublet waist later in the period (isn't there a photo on Patterns of Fashion showing where a later hook has been sewn to the eyeletted waist -strip inside a surviving doublet?) Perhaps that would be an acceptable solution for future customers who want to avoid the whole untying and retying hassle (and it *is* a hassle)...? Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 19 07:50:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9JBoeMH009989 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 07:50:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JBmlUo007404 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Oct 2004 05:48:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JBmh5V027034; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 05:48:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9JBmc5V026957 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 05:48:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Oct 2004 11:48:32 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041019124615.01557770@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:48:29 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII and Tudor sleeves In-Reply-To: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3BC8@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx .ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > > >His hose should be pointed to it around the waist (to hold them up) - > > >that would prevent it (the doublet) from riding up > > > > I do know what *should* be, but you try telling that to a customer who >is > > having problem getting hose in the first place. > > > He also wanted the trunk hose to fasten with a cod piece and with >points, > > but not to the doublet, as he was doing a lot of archery >demonstrations, > > and found the "laced-up" thing rather restricting, especially with the >big > > coat as well as everything else!! > >Though, I'm sure I remember something in Arnold about hooks and eyes >repla cing points for fastening the trunks tot he doublet waist later in >the period (isn't there a photo on Patterns of Fashion showing where a >later hook has been sewn to the eyeletted waist -strip inside a >surviving doublet?) Perhaps that would be an acceptable solution for >future customers who want to avoid the whole untying and retying hassle >(and it *is* a hassle)...? I have tried this, but it is just as restricting, as there is virtually no "give". However, if you do it theatrically, with the hook on a piece of narrow elastic - well there you go! Suzi (who does authentic and theatrical both in the same costume if it works!!) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 19 07:57:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9JBvitM010236 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 07:57:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JBrnUo008592 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Oct 2004 05:53:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JBqw5V028864; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 05:53:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.254.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JBq85V028482 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 05:52:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:35:01 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII and Tudor sleeves To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3BC9@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Henry VIII and Tudor sleeves Thread-Index: AcSyg9BOmoYPCEfsS7qWvqG7zGdnkwDS5cRQ content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.20 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > At 11:10 AM 10/14/2004 +0100, you wrote: > >- Jerkin (in this case U-fronted) (Could be sleeveless, short-sleeved > >or have complete sleeves of its own)with bases > > > Ah, so that's a jerkin in this time period. More familiar with jerkins in > Elizabethan styles. Thanks for the clarification of terms. Actually, I have no idea what it was actually called in this period, but used "Jerkin" as the word most people were likely to recognize without my having to put in a long explanation of what garment I meant. Sorry. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 19 08:00:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9JC0Phe010327 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 08:00:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JBwdUo009720 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Oct 2004 05:58:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JBwc5V032106; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 05:58:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.254.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JBw95V031878 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 05:58:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:43:55 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Circle cut bases (WAS:Henry VIII and Tudor sleeves) To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3BCA@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: Re: [h-cost] Circle cut bases (WAS:Henry VIII and Tudor sleeves) Thread-Index: AcSyg9BOmoYPCEfsS7qWvqG7zGdnkwDTALUQ content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.20 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > At 11:23 AM 10/14/2004 +0100, you wrote: > > I also made the bases from a pair of > > half circle, but felt that there needed to be more material in them for > >cartridge pleats, and would probably make it 3/4 circles if I had to make > >another. > I created my husband's base from the two pairs of half circles, but I > followed another person's directions for what she called "organ pleats", > which are not the same as cartridge pleats as I know them (Norris noting > otherwise). I did them as an experiment in how this type of pleats would > look using a non-wool base. > However, I think I will try box pleating on the circle or gored skirt to > see if the effect is closer to the portraits I have. I've been thinking about this and I think (as far as the fullness and the look of fullness is concerned) it could depend on the type of circle you use... I know that sounds strange, but consider this - if you use a circle-cut skirt (whihc is basically dough-nut shaped, a circle with a hole in the middle of it) where the inner edge is exactly the waist measurement of the doublet/jerkin, the skirts would look too "skimped" because the flare involves so little fabric to begin with.... whereas, if you used a circle where the inner edge is big enough that it would need some form of pleating to make it small enough to fit the doublet/jerkin waist, the amount of fullness as much greater (in other words, a bigger dough-nut - a bigger circle with a bigger hole cut from the middle) Of course, now that this has occutred to me, it seems *obvious* but it has literally only just occured to me - DOH! Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 19 08:00:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9JC0W0c010335 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 08:00:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JBvhUo009474 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Oct 2004 05:57:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JBvf5V031630; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 05:57:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from alpha2.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (alpha2.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.0.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JBvb5V031610 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 05:57:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:49:54 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII and Tudor sleeves To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3BCB@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Henry VIII and Tudor sleeves Thread-Index: AcSyg9BOmoYPCEfsS7qWvqG7zGdnkwDTVk0g content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.20 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Naturally, he would have his braes, tunk-hose and lower-hose on his > > lower half... > > I know I have heard of braes before, but I am not picturing this in my > mind, at least with regards to Tudor wear. Trunk hose and lower hose, that > I understand. > > So, would you mind describing braes in this context for me, please? Period equivalent of modern pants (or, to Americans, "undershorts") Braes is the term I'm used to from 14th &15th century costuming, though I'm uncertain if it's an all encompassing term from the period or whether (much as "cotehardie" is often used to mean "gothic fitted gown") it has just caught on and become a generic catch-all label for mens underwear when several different terms would have really been used in different 14th/15th century periods and places periods and places. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 19 13:03:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9JH3aEg017146 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 13:03:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JH2SUo008829 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:02:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JH2E5V038209; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:02:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JH275V038106 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:02:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00908 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:11:00 -0500 Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:10:59 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Need leads on suppliers, 19th-early 20th c. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A friend of mine is a curator at a small history museum in New England. She wrote me this: "Do you have a favorite sutler company? I'm trying to order some supplies for some history kits and can't remember where I used to get stuff. I need things like a butter churn, tin whistle, bullets, powder horn, etc." When I asked for more details, she added: "I'm trying to put together some artifact kits. The one I'm actually having the most trouble with is one on Immigration in the late 19th/early 20th century. I need to find reproductions of items such as carpetbags; perhaps some items that might have been carried over by a Jewish family; and some items that might have been brought by a Chinese family to California. So, hmmm. It's items of general household use at that time period as well as cultural items." I don't do anything later than medieval, but I bet there are some people on this list that can recommend some vendors who specialize in re-enactment accessories for 19th-early 20th c. that would have some of these things. Pointers to any website links lists to such vendors would be great too. I'll pass all on to my friend. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 19 13:05:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9JH5aHD017200 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 13:05:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JH4rUo009143 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:04:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JH4q5V040426; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:04:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JH3T5V039257 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:03:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brujne@creighton.edu) Received: from cindyabel (cla53081.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA04929 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:03:22 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:03:22 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3BC9@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Granada television's "Henry VIII" coming to PBS X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just to check out the costumes alone(always great fun in watching historical films and miniseries--There should be a History Theatre 3000 in the footsteps of Mystery Science Theater 3000 for this group!): last year's Granada Television's "Henry VIII is coming over to the west side of the pond via Masterpiece Theatre on PBS this November. According to the PBS website, it is scheduled for Sunday, Nov 7th and 14th. So set those VCRs or wait and buy the DVD available Nov 16th. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 19 13:42:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9JHg1Ag018000 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 13:42:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JHfJUo013126 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:41:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JHfE5V071056; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:41:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.193]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JHfB5V071017 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:41:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jacquelinejbump@gmail.com) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 78so63222rnl for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 10:41:10 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=aFs5ox5lMUVEDiPvz/uhJKqQuPoDw60cXc51HFnDKqqcUhAmapg065Dk1Odo1OlA4za37LqxkAj5eOSsP84RrR4a01s2rUt/T2jIh6lFV0QBr5svpYCD0ccluFgGffZ6M1n7xCPvBHBe092K+PcjC7FNYKsheAdCupFM9GPFKQ8 Received: by 10.38.99.68 with SMTP id w68mr2330141rnb; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 10:41:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.14.59 with HTTP; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 10:41:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4c5accc80410191041284fd284@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 13:41:10 -0400 From: Jacqueline Johnson To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need leads on suppliers, 19th-early 20th c. In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You could try Thickity Creek. http://thickitycreek.com/ B _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 19 13:42:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9JHgYrh018016 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 13:42:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JHanUo012536 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:36:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JHai5V067285; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:36:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (chori.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JHaf5V067160 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:36:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ldownward@chori.org) X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Sophos http://raeinternet.com/mpp Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP-TLS id 1556183 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 10:36:33 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.0.0.040405 Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 10:36:32 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need leads on suppliers, 19th-early 20th c. From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cat Slater in Los Angeles has some roomy, great looking carpet bags; some even have a space on the outside for a parasol. This contact info is from the Costume College website: Z'ETIQUETTE: Cat Slater & Laurie McGee 2524 Fourth Avenue, Los Angeles, CA 90018 Phone: (323) 733-3964; Email: blukitty@earthlink.net Z'Etiquette custom-makes Victorian carpetbags and accessories, parasol cozies, and additionally sell parasols, hatpins, and other delights. Best of luck to your friend in her searches. LynnD > From: Robin Netherton > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:10:59 -0500 (CDT) > To: Historic Costume List > Subject: [h-cost] Need leads on suppliers, 19th-early 20th c. > > > A friend of mine is a curator at a small history museum in New England. > She wrote me this: > > "Do you have a favorite sutler company? I'm trying to order some supplies > for some history kits and can't remember where I used to get stuff. I > need things like a butter churn, tin whistle, bullets, powder horn, etc." > > When I asked for more details, she added: > > "I'm trying to put together some artifact kits. The one I'm actually > having the most trouble with is one on Immigration in the late 19th/early > 20th century. I need to find reproductions of items such as carpetbags; > perhaps some items that might have been carried over by a Jewish family; > and some items that might have been brought by a Chinese family to > California. So, hmmm. It's items of general household use at that time > period as well as cultural items." > > I don't do anything later than medieval, but I bet there are some people > on this list that can recommend some vendors who specialize in > re-enactment accessories for 19th-early 20th c. that would have some of > these things. > > Pointers to any website links lists to such vendors would be great too. > > I'll pass all on to my friend. > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 19 13:47:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9JHlvx4018109 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 13:47:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JHlCUo013746 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:47:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JHl55V075687; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:47:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (chori.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JHl15V075521 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:47:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ldownward@chori.org) X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Sophos http://raeinternet.com/mpp Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP-TLS id 1556226 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 10:46:55 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.0.0.040405 Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 10:46:55 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need leads on suppliers, 19th-early 20th c. CAVEAT From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin, I should say that I don't know if these are exact reproductions of 19C carpetbags or if they are carpetbags made to look good enough to take to a recreation event. Your friend should definitely check that with the company. I've seen them and think they're wonderful, but I don't know enough about European carpetbags and luggage to say that these are reproductions. LynnD I wrote: Cat Slater in Los Angeles has some roomy, great looking carpet bags; some even have a space on the outside for a parasol. This contact info is from the Costume College website: Z'ETIQUETTE: Cat Slater & Laurie McGee 2524 Fourth Avenue, Los Angeles, CA 90018 Phone: (323) 733-3964; Email: blukitty@earthlink.net Z'Etiquette custom-makes Victorian carpetbags and accessories, parasol cozies, and additionally sell parasols, hatpins, and other delights. Best of luck to your friend in her searches. LynnD > From: Robin Netherton > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:10:59 -0500 (CDT) > To: Historic Costume List > Subject: [h-cost] Need leads on suppliers, 19th-early 20th c. > > > A friend of mine is a curator at a small history museum in New England. > She wrote me this: > > "Do you have a favorite sutler company? I'm trying to order some supplies > for some history kits and can't remember where I used to get stuff. I > need things like a butter churn, tin whistle, bullets, powder horn, etc." > > When I asked for more details, she added: > > "I'm trying to put together some artifact kits. The one I'm actually > having the most trouble with is one on Immigration in the late 19th/early > 20th century. I need to find reproductions of items such as carpetbags; > perhaps some items that might have been carried over by a Jewish family; > and some items that might have been brought by a Chinese family to > California. So, hmmm. It's items of general household use at that time > period as well as cultural items." > > I don't do anything later than medieval, but I bet there are some people > on this list that can recommend some vendors who specialize in > re-enactment accessories for 19th-early 20th c. that would have some of > these things. > > Pointers to any website links lists to such vendors would be great too. > > I'll pass all on to my friend. > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 19 15:24:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9JJOo0m020209 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:24:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JJO1Uo025081 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Oct 2004 13:24:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JJNh5V054090; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 13:23:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell3.shore.net (shell3.shore.net [207.244.124.103]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JJNe5W054003 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 13:23:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from vintage@primushost.com) Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for h-costume@indra.com id 1CJzcT-00058i-00; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:26:05 -0400 Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:26:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Katy Bishop To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian corset patterns In-Reply-To: <417442FF.3090109@princessharold.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 18 Oct 2004, Gwen Kachelmyer wrote: >I haven't tried the Mantua Maker's one, unfortunately. >A lot of people swear by Laughing Moon's pattern, but I haven't been as >happy with it. I was making a corset for a friend of mine who is >naturally curvy to begin with and even with the bust and hip gores it >seemed to just flatten out her curves rather than accentuate them. I >like the Past Patterns #213 Victorian corset. the shape is closer to >1880's and gives a nice hourglass shape, even on me I agree with this assessment. A friend gave me a Laughing Moon Dore corset (it is wonderful pale blue silk with bobbin lace, and was a bit big for her in the bust, lucky me), which is lovely, fits well in the bust (though the pattern seems to run large), but it is very smooth on the hips, and really flattens the stomach; as a result it cannot fit my waist as well as I would on the Past Patterns 213, which is very curvy and is great for a figure like mine with large bust and hips and much smaller waist. The Laughing moon corset does give a nice smooth hip and tummy line under 1890's skirts though, (a problem with PP213 as it is a fairly short corset so it does not cover the hips well), but if you want silhouette with a definite cinched waist I would recommend Past Patterns 213. Katy Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 19 15:43:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9JJhOdM020591 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:43:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JJgaUo027255 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Oct 2004 13:42:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JJgT5V068933; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 13:42:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:yVOSgD0mFTM2hdto7Y3pw7Wgawqi602g@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JJgP5V068871 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 13:42:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from webmail.patriot.net (vanburen.patriot.net [209.249.176.8]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id i9JJgPtR023907 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:42:25 -0400 Received: from dci012034013219.discovery.com ([12.34.13.219]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user aquazoo) by webmail.patriot.net with HTTP; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:42:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <51926.12.34.13.219.1098214945.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: References: <417442FF.3090109@princessharold.net> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:42:25 -0400 (EDT) From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Laver Quote X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I found it! The Laver quote is on this page: http://mazalin.com/tqm/fashion.shtml And other cute clothing quotes are here: http://www.quotegarden.com/clothing.html -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 19 17:11:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9JLBrZp022017 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:11:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JLB9Uo008077 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:11:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JLB95V069446; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:11:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from lakermmtao08.cox.net (lakermmtao08.cox.net [68.230.240.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JL8N5V067247 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:08:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from vmaa2@cox.net) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.10.139.124]) by lakermmtao08.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.04 201-2131-111-106-20040729) with ESMTP id <20041019210818.DIJA29128.lakermmtao08.cox.net@VMAAHQ> for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:08:18 -0400 From: "Linda Rice" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Virginia 1830's Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:07:40 -0400 Message-ID: <015e01c4b61f$b44cccf0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20041018155148.00cbadc0@pop8.sympatico.ca> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-DCC-sonic.net-Metrics: net.indra.com 1156; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wow Dawn, this is great- thanks! I did take a look at the Conner Prairie site, and the clothing essay there was very explicit about cotton being _not_ common, it was labeled as a luxury fabric. They claimed wool and linen were common, with silk and cotton being "rich". Funny, I thought I remembered that by the 1830's cotton was very much "King" in the south. Will have to go read more about that I guess. I'll forward your post to the director so she can read what you said about sleeves and the mid-decade changes. It's gonna blow her mind, because right now she's convinced that all the "working women" should be running around in their shifts and aprons! Oy! You said that printed cottons were big. What about checks, plaids and stripes? Which colors were most popular, and which colors are just wrong? I will track down the Lowell's Mill pattern, thanks for the tip. I'm about 3 1/2 hours from D.C.- so a weekend trip to the Smithsonian isn't impossible. Thanks for the help! ::Linda:: On Behalf Of Dawn Luckham Subject: [h-cost] Virginia 1830's This is something I know a LITTLE about! I cannot tell you about Virginia specifically, but I've always thought the 1830's would be a difficult period to try to show as the styles made a semi dramatic change mid decade. Cotton was huge. Specifically, printed cottons were extremely popular due to the availability and adorability of fabrics from the cotton industry. Printing methods had advanced and there was a wide range of very pretty floral cottons. {snippage of much great info} So, I would suggest that you need to find out if you will be presenting the time before 1836 or after. As a basic pattern source and good beginning, I would highly recommend you obtain a copy of Past Patterns Lowell Mill pattern, if you haven't already. There's some really good research information included with the pattern. I don't know how close you are to D.C. but the Smithsonian has some very nice examples of this period in their collection. I'm sure there are a million other museums in the area that do as well. It sounds like a really fun project. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 19 17:14:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9JLEND5022068 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:14:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JL8YUo007747 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:08:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JL8J5V067253; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:08:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from lakermmtao08.cox.net (lakermmtao08.cox.net [68.230.240.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JL8G5V067151 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:08:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from vmaa2@cox.net) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.10.139.124]) by lakermmtao08.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.04 201-2131-111-106-20040729) with ESMTP id <20041019210810.DIII29128.lakermmtao08.cox.net@VMAAHQ> for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:08:10 -0400 From: "Linda Rice" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Virginia 1830's Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:07:40 -0400 Message-ID: <015d01c4b61f$af42f9a0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 In-Reply-To: <156.419c0468.2ea5869c@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks Albert, for the moral support. I'm going to keep the description you wrote, I'm sure it will help. Believe me, as I get deeper into this, I'm gonna have tons of questions! In the mean time, maybe you all would like to see a picture of the house? (not my website) http://www.carolshouse.com/structures/ferryfarm/ They have recently been awarded a substantial grant, so the front porch is scheduled to be removed next month to try and return the house to its original configuration. The side porches will be reworked, although I don't think they'll be able to match the original stucco work- it was made from oyster shells. The director swears that there are 12 ghosts in this house- 11 people and 1 cat! Pax, ::Linda:: On Behalf Of AlbertCat@aol.com Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 4:51 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Virginia 1830's Indeed! I'd say rich or poor, the basic cut of a gown or coat is the same. It's the details and fabric that make the difference. dluckham@sympatico.ca writes: > As a basic pattern source and good beginning, I would highly recommend you > obtain a copy of Past Patterns Lowell Mill pattern, if you haven't already. > There's some really good research information included with the pattern. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 19 17:17:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9JLH1Bg022139 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:17:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JLBNUo008108 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:11:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JLBL5V069613; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:11:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from lakermmtao08.cox.net (lakermmtao08.cox.net [68.230.240.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JL8V5V067318 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:08:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from vmaa2@cox.net) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.10.139.124]) by lakermmtao08.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.04 201-2131-111-106-20040729) with ESMTP id <20041019210825.DIKO29128.lakermmtao08.cox.net@VMAAHQ> for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:08:25 -0400 From: "Linda Rice" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Virginia 1830 Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:07:40 -0400 Message-ID: <015f01c4b61f$b7644620$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20041018125656.0254db78@mail.frys.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-DCC-sonic.net-Metrics: net.indra.com 1156; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Doh! Why didn't I think of that first! Thanks Carolyn, I don't mind browsing the art sites. (for hours and hours and hours!) ::Linda:: From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com On Behalf Of Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Virginia 1830 Look for painters active about then. There were some great rural scenes and town street scenes painted about then. Just don't ask me to name the artists. CarolynKayta Barrows >1820 to 1850 period. The board has voted to aim for the 1830's as the >decade they want their >docents and helpers to dress in. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 19 17:54:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9JLsHrB022870 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:54:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JLrhUo013048 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:53:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JLra5V014980; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:53:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web51307.mail.yahoo.com (web51307.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.173]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9JLrW5V014851 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:53:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elvestoorder@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20041019215327.39135.qmail@web51307.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.237.35.181] by web51307.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 14:53:27 PDT Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 14:53:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Ann Catelli Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian corset patterns To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Katy Bishop wrote: > On Mon, 18 Oct 2004, Gwen Kachelmyer wrote: > > >I haven't tried the Mantua Maker's one, I have had pretty good luck with the Mantua Maker's mid/late 19th century corsets pattern. I had to make more than one pair of corsetsto have it fit, but it was my first corsets & I'm different sizes on top & bottom. And I can dance a polka in them. Ann in CT __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 19 18:18:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9JMI07m023427 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 18:18:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JMHMUo016084 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Oct 2004 16:17:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JMGq5V033868; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 16:16:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JMGm5V033805 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 16:16:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dluckham@sympatico.ca) Received: from Main.sympatico.ca ([64.231.205.156]) by tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with ESMTP id <20041019221641.FTAG15612.tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net@Main.sympatico.ca> for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 18:16:41 -0400 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20041019173403.00c66e28@pop8.sympatico.ca> X-Sender: b1jerw63@pop8.sympatico.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 18:16:25 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Dawn Luckham Subject: RE: [h-cost] More Virginia 1830's In-Reply-To: <015e01c4b61f$b44cccf0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20041018155148.00cbadc0@pop8.sympatico.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 05:07 PM 19/10/2004 -0400, you wrote: > [I did take a look at the Conner Prairie site, and the clothing >essay there was very explicit about cotton being _not_ common, it was >labeled as a luxury fabric.] Well, I think the Lowell Mill research would disagree as they suggest that the girls who worked in the factories were able to purchase at least one new cotton dress each year. >[ she's convinced that all the >"working women" should be running around in their shifts and aprons! Oy!] The shift and petticoat and shortgown thing (I'm not sure exactly when they started to call it a "sack") was still worn as very, very casual. That is on the farm, at home, when pregnant. However, more and more women wore one piece dresses with petticoats underneath. >[You said that printed cottons were big. What about checks, plaids and >stripes? Which colors were most popular, and which colors are just wrong?] There is a blue checked work dress in the Smithsonian, but I think it's dated 1840. I have several images of plaid and checked dresses in reds and blues. There is a lovely hunter green gown in the Kent State University collection. Small florals on a light or dark background (dark would be better for work wear as it shows the dirt less) I have images of actual gowns in gold and teal, cream and brown, brick red. Vintage Textile sold a red plaid gown that was amazing with bias work and tucking. I've got fashion plates that show all colours of green and some mauve and lilac colours. The only colour that I can think of that was used in moderation was cobalt blue. You do see it in the floral prints but I think it was still hand applied at this time (? not entirely sure about that one without checking my notes). Brilliant pinks and magenta were not yet available. Construction notes: Back fastening gowns seem to be more popular than front closures. When a front closure exists, it's often hidden. Hooks and eyes or hooks and loops or eyelets were often used. Almost all bodice seams were piped. They were piped around armholes and side seams and princess seams and necklines and waistlines....you get the idea :-) Some books to look at: Fashion - The collection of the Kyoto Costume Institute printed by Taschen English Women's Clothing in the Nineteenth Century by C. Willett Cunnington (I realize it's "English", but it will give a really good idea of the "fashion" of the time. This next recommendation may be difficult for you to locate, but if you can, it's not great on pictures (although there are drawings) but it has a lot of good information. It's part of a series called, "The Cut of Women's 19th Century Dress" by Eileen Collard (She's a Canadian, which is why it may be difficult for you to locate the book.) The volume you should look for is in two parts (now printed together) Part 1: "The Vertical Epoch, c. 1800-21" and Part 2 "Romance and Sentiment", c 1822-39 . I've seen some of the gowns she mentions in her book at the Joseph Brant museum in Ontario. They are lovely, simple cotton gowns. Jean Hunnisett's Period Costume for Stage and Screen will give you grid patterns that you can scale up. You can create endless variations with her book. You will need someone who can figure out how to resize patterns and scale the grid up. All of her patterns are for a size 12. Web site you should check out if you haven't already: Sense and Sensibility. http://www.sensibility.com/mainpage.htm She makes a "Romantic period" pattern that would suit you. Bonus: she also has tons of on line help. Glad to help! Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 19 19:43:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9JNhlE3025004 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 19:43:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JNhCUo022964 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:43:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JNh35V089652; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:43:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com (adsl-065-013-105-239.sip.tys.bellsouth.net [65.13.105.239]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9JNh05V089596 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:43:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i9K03tBf027152 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:03:55 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: (from sfarmer@localhost) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3/Submit) id i9K03ssp027151 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:03:54 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:03:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Farmer Message-Id: <200410200003.i9K03ssp027151@sabre.goldsword.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Younger Eleonora in red In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20041018183403.0291d270@64.87.54.245> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >I don't know how long y'all will be able to download the pictures > >without overrunning the bandwidth. I did have it loaded on one of the > >free sites and it yarked after one look at the hi-rez image (300 ppi). Kate was kind enough to email me the large image, and I've got it hanging off my server. The smaller image (762x958) is at and the larger one (1523x1908) is at The partlet almost looks like it's smocked -- with what we think of as the smocking embroidery is beads or small pearls ... Jerusha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 19 20:13:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9K0DIuR025557 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:13:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9K0CiUo026521 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Oct 2004 18:12:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9K0CZ5V006812; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 18:12:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9K0CV5V006706 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 18:12:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-8.13) id AD6632D0062; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:12:22 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.109 ([209.131.81.109] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 20 Oct 04 00:12:19 -0000 Message-ID: <003401c4b63a$7e2f3d40$6d5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <015e01c4b61f$b44cccf0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Virginia 1830's Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:19:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There have been several books out on the development of the cotton industry in the last couple of years that might also help you. One that I have is "Women at Work" by Thomas Dublin. Sub-title: The Transformation of Work and Community in Lowell, Massachusetts 1826-1960. (Columbia U Press,1993, 2nd Edition) Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Rice" To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 5:07 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Virginia 1830's > Wow Dawn, this is great- thanks! I did take a look at the Conner Prairie site, and the clothing > essay there was very explicit about cotton being _not_ common, it was labeled as a luxury fabric. > They claimed wool and linen were common, with silk and cotton being "rich". Funny, I thought I > remembered that by the 1830's cotton was very much "King" in the south. Will have to go read more > about that I guess. > > I'll forward your post to the director so she can read what you said about sleeves and the > mid-decade changes. It's gonna blow her mind, because right now she's convinced that all the > "working women" should be running around in their shifts and aprons! Oy! > > You said that printed cottons were big. What about checks, plaids and stripes? Which colors were > most popular, and which colors are just wrong? > > I will track down the Lowell's Mill pattern, thanks for the tip. I'm about 3 1/2 hours from D.C.- > so a weekend trip to the Smithsonian isn't impossible. > > Thanks for the help! > > ::Linda:: > > > On Behalf Of Dawn Luckham > Subject: [h-cost] Virginia 1830's > > This is something I know a LITTLE about! > I cannot tell you about Virginia specifically, but I've always thought the > 1830's would be a difficult period to try to show as the styles made a semi > dramatic change mid decade. > > Cotton was huge. Specifically, printed cottons were extremely popular due > to the availability and adorability of fabrics from the cotton > industry. Printing methods had advanced and there was a wide range of very > pretty floral cottons. > > {snippage of much great info} > > So, I would suggest that you need to find out if you will be presenting the > time before 1836 or after. > > As a basic pattern source and good beginning, I would highly recommend you > obtain a copy of Past Patterns Lowell Mill pattern, if you haven't already. > There's some really good research information included with the pattern. > > I don't know how close you are to D.C. but the Smithsonian has some very > nice examples of this period in their collection. I'm sure there are a > million other museums in the area that do as well. > > It sounds like a really fun project. > Dawn > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 19 21:37:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9K1bIsh026851 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:37:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9K1afUo003203 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Oct 2004 19:36:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9K1ZE5V048807; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 19:35:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta10.adelphia.net (mta10.adelphia.net [68.168.78.202]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9K1Z35V048549 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 19:35:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from randl@adelphia.net) Received: from adelphia.net ([69.169.181.2]) by mta10.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.02 201-2131-111-104-20040324) with ESMTP id <20041020013458.IPYI18454.mta10.adelphia.net@adelphia.net> for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:34:58 -0400 Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:34:57 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: randl@adelphia.net To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <200410191800.i9JI0f5W086740@net.indra.com> Message-Id: <4009ED13-2238-11D9-8A52-000393D2F36E@adelphia.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Silk floss for Dummies... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'd like to start another remedial needlework project (Blackwork 101 final project came out beautifully, thanks for asking!) and I thought here would be the perfect place to start. Is there a silk floss equivalent of DMC cotton floss? What is your favorite entry level silk floss? Who's your favorite on-line vendor for such things? Thanks ever so! Laurie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 19 22:50:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9K2orwv028555 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 22:50:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9K2oGUo008298 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:50:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9K2o95V086060; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:50:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9K2o75V086013 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:50:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gia_gavino@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.114 ([204.127.197.114]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <2004102002500201300t6nsee>; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 02:50:02 +0000 Received: from [24.16.244.181] by 204.127.197.114; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 02:49:43 +0000 From: gia_gavino@comcast.net (Elena O'Tighearnaigh) To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silk floss for Dummies... Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 02:49:43 +0000 Message-Id: <102020040249.22529.4175D2470005F373000058012200750330010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Sep 14 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: Z2lhX2dhdmlub0Bjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My all time favorite online source is www.Threadneedlestreet.com Located in scenic Issaquah, Washington. The owner, Denise, is knowledgeable, friendly and very helpful with questions about fibers, flosses and all things needleworthy. -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > I'd like to start another remedial needlework project (Blackwork 101 > final project came out beautifully, thanks for asking!) and I thought > here would be the perfect place to start. > > Is there a silk floss equivalent of DMC cotton floss? What is your > favorite entry level silk floss? Who's your favorite on-line vendor for > such things? > > Thanks ever so! > Laurie > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 19 23:24:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9K3ONXD029195 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 23:24:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9K3NHUo011415 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:23:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9K3N95V002147; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:23:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out006.verizon.net (out006pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.106]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9K3Mx5V002053 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:23:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from Fiona ([162.84.112.200]) by out006.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20041020032258.VAH4017.out006.verizon.net@Fiona> for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 22:22:58 -0500 From: "Ron Carnegie" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Virginia 1830's Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 23:22:57 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <003401c4b63a$7e2f3d40$6d5183d1@rmitchellras> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out006.verizon.net from [162.84.112.200] at Tue, 19 Oct 2004 22:22:57 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Conner prairie usually does a good job. I was surprised as the rest of you regarding these comments for cotton in 1830 and took a look at their web page itself. What is says later is, "Cotton cloth was readily available, but it was imported from England, or. at least New England, and so usually required cash to own. Cotton was grown in India, where there was plenty of cheap labor to perform the backbreaking field work and then the tedious picking out of the cotton seeds from the harvested cotton bolls. Spinning, dyeing and weaving of the cotton ~ also hand-done very cheaply in India, or the harvested cotton was shipped to England where the newly developing power machinery could turn it into spun threads and then into woven cloth. England developed a monopoly on cotton and sold it to other countries at great profit. The early American colonies were forbidden to produce their own cotton fabrics, and were forced to purchase them from English merchants. Later, after the American Revolution, the growing of cotton and the manufacture of cotton cloth encouraged both the slave population of the southern states and the industrialization of the New England states. But, because cotton cloth production was not a family industry, it was expensive to buy. People who could afford to buy cotton cloth found a nice variety of gaily printed patterns. Cotton fabrics were a favorite gift for men to take home from their travels. " This web page has a few common mistakes, and I suspect was not written by a researcher but rather by whatever their School programs people, or their web page designer. I think they are also referring to a specific type of person in a specific place, and do not make that clear. The place being the 1830 frontier on the plains. This is a common error at Living History museums, mine included. They frequently lead one to believe that they are showing life in their time period. They typically forget to mention how it is also regionally specific. Colonial Williamsburg (my site) does a rather good job at depicting the life of Virginians living in the capital city in the third quarter of the 18th century. Life in rural Virginia (just out side of town even) is completely different, and even more so is life anywhere in New England at the same time! 1830 is NOT my period, but American Colonies are. The colonies were not forbidden to make cotton cloth, in fact they did. There just wasn't a lot of profit in it. The colonies WERE prohibited the most current technology, which was the powered looms) and therefore relied upon hand looms. Besides there are also all the usual arguments about America's short staple cotton difficulties. I don't know if the assertion that cotton was expensive as it was not family made is true. Economics would suggest just the opposite, unless your family was actually making the cloth. This is the reason the machines and factories took over, TO INCREASE PROFITS BY REDUCING LABOR TIME. Of course just a little research into fabric prices at the time should clear that up. If Connor Prairie's assertions are correct however, the Lowell Mills account of a cotton dress a year doesn't really refute it. Just as family made cloth would be less expensive to the family making it, so would factory cloth to the mill. Seems like an obvious Christmas bonus idea. Cotton production is a curiously hotly debated topic, and for several different costuming periods! I remain, Ron Carnegie > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Lloyd Mitchell > Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 7:20 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Virginia 1830's > > > There have been several books out on the development of the > cotton industry > in the last couple of years that might also help you. One that I have is > "Women at Work" by Thomas Dublin. Sub-title: The Transformation > of Work and > Community in Lowell, Massachusetts 1826-1960. (Columbia U Press,1993, 2nd > Edition) > Kathleen > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Linda Rice" > To: "'Historical Costume'" > Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 5:07 PM > Subject: RE: [h-cost] Virginia 1830's > > > > Wow Dawn, this is great- thanks! I did take a look at the Conner Prairie > site, and the clothing > > essay there was very explicit about cotton being _not_ common, it was > labeled as a luxury fabric. > > They claimed wool and linen were common, with silk and cotton being > "rich". Funny, I thought I > > remembered that by the 1830's cotton was very much "King" in the south. > Will have to go read more > > about that I guess. > > > > I'll forward your post to the director so she can read what you > said about > sleeves and the > > mid-decade changes. It's gonna blow her mind, because right now she's > convinced that all the > > "working women" should be running around in their shifts and aprons! Oy! > > > > You said that printed cottons were big. What about checks, plaids and > stripes? Which colors were > > most popular, and which colors are just wrong? > > > > I will track down the Lowell's Mill pattern, thanks for the > tip. I'm about > 3 1/2 hours from D.C.- > > so a weekend trip to the Smithsonian isn't impossible. > > > > Thanks for the help! > > > > ::Linda:: > > > > > > On Behalf Of Dawn Luckham > > Subject: [h-cost] Virginia 1830's > > > > This is something I know a LITTLE about! > > I cannot tell you about Virginia specifically, but I've always > thought the > > 1830's would be a difficult period to try to show as the styles made a > semi > > dramatic change mid decade. > > > > Cotton was huge. Specifically, printed cottons were extremely > popular due > > to the availability and adorability of fabrics from the cotton > > industry. Printing methods had advanced and there was a wide range of > very > > pretty floral cottons. > > > > {snippage of much great info} > > > > So, I would suggest that you need to find out if you will be presenting > the > > time before 1836 or after. > > > > As a basic pattern source and good beginning, I would highly > recommend you > > obtain a copy of Past Patterns Lowell Mill pattern, if you haven't > already. > > There's some really good research information included with the pattern. > > > > I don't know how close you are to D.C. but the Smithsonian has some very > > nice examples of this period in their collection. I'm sure there are a > > million other museums in the area that do as well. > > > > It sounds like a really fun project. > > Dawn > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 19 23:40:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9K3edl5029503 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 23:40:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9K3dtUo012505 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:39:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9K3dl5V009683; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:39:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out010.verizon.net (out010pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9K3di5V009649 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:39:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from Fiona ([162.84.112.200]) by out010.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20041020033943.ZYXS25072.out010.verizon.net@Fiona> for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 22:39:43 -0500 From: "Ron Carnegie" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Virginia 1830's Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 23:39:42 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out010.verizon.net from [162.84.112.200] at Tue, 19 Oct 2004 22:39:43 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Actually, if I had bothered to read the rest of the article before posting, I would have seen that it was written by a "retired Director of Programs". I don't know much about Connor Prairie's administration (though I do know some of their employees) but I know I wouldn't turn to any of our programming department if I wanted historic clothing advice! The article also went on to talk about other locations as well. I suspect it is really just a flawed article based on flawed secondary sources and assumptions. Typical online fare. I really do have great respect for some of the work they do at Conner Prairie, and they have been through some real hard times recently. cheers, Ron > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Ron Carnegie > Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 10:23 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: RE: [h-cost] Virginia 1830's > > > This web page has a few common mistakes, and I suspect was not written > by a researcher but rather by whatever their School programs people, or > their web page designer. I think they are also referring to a > specific type > of person in a specific place, and do not make that clear. The > place being > the 1830 frontier on the plains. This is a common error at Living History > museums, mine included. They frequently lead one to believe that they are > showing life in their time period. They typically forget to > mention how it > is also regionally specific. > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 19 23:41:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9K3fO5p029518 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 23:41:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9K3erUo012570 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:40:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9K3er5V010264; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:40:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9K3e45V009819 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:40:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 356EDB6FD for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:40:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041019201215.02235e80@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:17:07 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Circle cut bases (WAS:Henry VIII and Tudor sleeves) In-Reply-To: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3BCA@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx .ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Teddy, This is exactly what I did, using two half circles, the circumference being larger by several inches and taking up the extra material into sewn down pleats, almost dart-like in a way. It is taped underneath to hold the pleats in shape further from the waist area. It really does flow nicely around my husband's legs, but the work to get this done was more than I want to deal with normally. However, I was following someone else's instructions, so I fully appreciate your light bulb moment. I wouldn't have thought of it otherwise. Kimiko At 12:43 PM 10/19/2004 +0100, you wrote: <> >whereas, if you used a circle where the inner edge is big enough that it would >need some form of pleating to make it small enough to fit the >doublet/jerkin waist, the amount of fullness as much greater (in other >words, a bigger dough-nut - a bigger circle with a bigger hole cut from >the middle) > >Of course, now that this has occutred to me, it seems *obvious* but it >has literally only just occured to me - DOH! > >Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 19 23:41:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9K3fXNs029523 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 23:41:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9K3f0Uo012592 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:41:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9K3ex5V010321; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:40:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9K3e45V009813 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:40:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99A32B5FE for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:40:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041019194150.022ec7a0@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 19:43:54 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Younger Eleonora in red In-Reply-To: <200410200003.i9K03ssp027151@sabre.goldsword.com> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20041018183403.0291d270@64.87.54.245> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:03 PM 10/19/2004 -0400, you wrote: >Kate was kind enough to email me the large image, and I've got it hanging >off my server. > >The smaller image (762x958) is at > > >and the larger one (1523x1908) is at > > >The partlet almost looks like it's smocked -- with what we think of as the >smocking embroidery is beads or small pearls ... > >Jerusha Hi Jerusha, Thanks so much Jerusha for sharing the images with us, especially that larger image. I had thought the partlet was smocked and beaded when I saw it on TV, but I could never quite get a clear enough image to state for certain. When I get some time, I am hoping to recreate this partlet, as I think it is one of the nicest I have seen. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 19 23:41:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9K3fZ2M029529 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 23:41:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9K3f7Uo012609 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:41:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9K3f65V010394; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:41:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9K3e45V009829 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:40:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4C87B705 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:40:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041019201742.022fa898@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:19:18 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII and Tudor sleeves In-Reply-To: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3BCB@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx .ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:49 PM 10/19/2004 +0100, you wrote: >Period equivalent of modern pants (or, to Americans, "undershorts") > >Braes is the term I'm used to from 14th &15th century costuming, though >I'm uncertain if it's an all encompassing term from the period or >whether (much as "cotehardie" is often used to mean "gothic fitted >gown") it has just caught on and become a generic catch-all label for >mens underwear when several different terms would have really been used >in different 14th/15th century periods and places periods and places. > >Teddy Ah, that is why I can't seem to find the term for 16th c. garb as braes in my books so far, but found some interesting "underwear" looking braes from earlier centuries illustrated online. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 20 03:47:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9K7lnDY003399 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 03:47:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9K7l2Uo026764 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Oct 2004 01:47:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9K7kn5V020012; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 01:46:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9K7kk5V019870 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 01:46:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (kf-ijss-cb01-0309.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.81.54]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA9D731930E for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 09:46:30 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <417617DC.1030302@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 09:46:36 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Time line list References: <416D708B.1070206@kabelfoon.nl> In-Reply-To: <416D708B.1070206@kabelfoon.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wow this became a huge list! Thank you all very much! Ancient Egyptian 3300 BC-30 BC Ancient Egypt: 3000-500 Etruscan Period: 1000-300 Ancient Greece: 700-150 BC Rome 700BC-476 CE Ancient Roman 30BC - 476 CE Byzantine 330 - 1453 Byzantine: 300-1450 Dark Ages 400-1000 Merovingian 500-751 Roman Medieval 800-1200 Carolingian 751-843 Ottonian 900-1002 Medieval Europe 1200-1450 Gothic Medieval 1200-1480 Vikings 800 - 1169 Norman 1071 - 1200 Saxon ? Italian Renaissance 1420-1600 Italian Renaissance: 1480-1510 German Renaissance: 1510-1550 Spanish Renaissance: 1550-1600 Tudor - Henry VII 1485-1509 - Henry VIII 1509-1547 - Edward VI 1547-1553 - Marian 1553-1558 - Elizabethan 1558-1603 Jacobean 1603-1625 Baroque 1620-1750 Baroque: 1620-1715 Rčgence: 1715-1730 Rococo: 1730-1770 Georgian 1720-1812 Georgian is 1720 - 1830. American Colonial 1492-1775 Louix XVI: 1770-1795 American Revolution 1775-1800 Directoire: 1795-1804 Empire: 1800-1820 Neo Classical Period 1800-1825 Biedermeier: 1820-1835 Regency 1812-1830 Regency is 1810 - 1820 Empire 1820-1840 New Rococo: 1835-1870 Victorian Era 1837-1901 American Civil War Era 1861-1865 Style Mixing Period: 1870-1890 Jugendstyle (Art Nouveau): 1890-1910 Edwardian Era 1901-1919 Funktionalism: 1920-1940 Our time: 1940- Art Deco? I think of it as Jazz Age, post WWI and into the 1920s. U.S. had the Depression era. Post WWII was the New Look developed by Dior and other designers, which went into the 1950s. Late 50s/early 60s was the Eisenhower era in the US. 1950s was the beginning of the Nuclear era, although that may not be attached to fashion so much. Late 60s/early 70s was youth vs the establishment, with fashions for both. Mid 70s, the Disco era, late 70s into the 80s was Punk & New Wave, and then it starts getting blurry because we're to close to it all. 90s, the Lycra era? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 20 04:24:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9K8OuG1017399 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 04:24:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9K8OOUo028309 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Oct 2004 02:24:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9K8OK5V034564; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 02:24:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9K8OG5V034462 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 02:24:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.15b.423fa96c (4584) for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 04:24:08 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <15b.423fa96c.2ea77aa8@aol.com> Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 04:24:08 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Virginia 1830's To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 10/19/2004 11:24:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, r.carnegie@verizon.net writes: > I don't know if the assertion that cotton was expensive as it was not > family made is true. MY question is.... Where is flax grown in America....and VA? How could linen be cheaper if cotton is being grown all around and slaves are there to produce the product? The cotton gin has been around for a while by the 1830s. And where do poorer people and slaves get their clothes? Especially if living on a plantation? Might a house servant get a hand-me-down cotton dress before a silk one....especially for work. What about wool production....in VA? What is it used for and when worn? Who would wear wool on a VA summer day to work in? I'm not talking about Indian cotton or mull, y'know. Where flour sacks made of linen? I think one could make a cotton dress and be just fine depicting 1830s VA rural life. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 20 05:36:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9K9aUo9005274 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 05:36:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9K9ZsUo001785 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Oct 2004 03:35:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9K9Zh5V063674; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 03:35:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from asmtp-a063f29.pas.sa.earthlink.net (asmtp-a063f29.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.120.131]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9K9Zf5V063655 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 03:35:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from dialup-4.152.198.235.dial1.atlanta1.level3.net ([4.152.198.235] helo=MOM) by asmtp-a063f29.pas.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CKCsc-0001Wy-Vc for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 02:35:39 -0700 Message-ID: <00f701c4b688$284e63d0$0300a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <15b.423fa96c.2ea77aa8@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Virginia 1830's Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 05:35:36 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 140fedcc4d524cc6b18d26c2e407058b94f5150ab1c16ac08f4233f47979de265953bb89fba00ea2c07a2978bff26273350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.152.198.235 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i9K9aUo9005274 Status: RO I know that George Washington's birthplace in Westmoreland County produced wool. It is a still working plantation, and they do demonstrations of shearing the sheep and spinning wool. I know the Shirley and Berkley Plantations are still working plantations. We worked on a film at Berkley and the plantation's sheep kept getting into the shots... I guess they wanted to be extras! Both plantations may have the history of what crops were grown on them on their websites. They are on the opposite side of the James River from me. I will be talking with one of the historians from the Valentine tonight. I will ask her about the crops, wool, and cotton. Here are a few links about VA crops: http://www.history.org/history/teaching/tradsamp.cfm About farm machinery, 1833: http://kclibrary.nhmccd.edu/19thcentury1830.htm http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/blfarm5.htm http://www.ls.net/~newriver/topic/ag.htm Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Online Reference Library, AND Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumegallery.com/research.htm www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 20 06:40:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9KAe35I006671 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 06:40:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9KAcTUo004554 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Oct 2004 04:38:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9KAcN5V090228; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 04:38:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.67]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9KAcK5V090196 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 04:38:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dannw@lycos.com) Received: from wfilter.us4.outblaze.com (wfilter.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.180]) by webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix) with QMQP id 54C951802857 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:38:15 +0000 (GMT) X-OB-Received: from unknown (208.36.123.33) by wfilter.us4.outblaze.com; 20 Oct 2004 10:38:15 -0000 Received: by ws7-4.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 2932FCA08B; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:38:05 +0000 (GMT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Received: from [81.144.218.66] by ws7-4.us4.outblaze.com with http for dannw@lycos.com; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:38:05 +0000 From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:38:05 +0000 Subject: Re: [h-cost] powdered wigs X-Originating-Ip: 81.144.218.66 X-Originating-Server: ws7-4.us4.outblaze.com Message-Id: <20041020103805.2932FCA08B@ws7-4.us4.outblaze.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i9KAcK5V090196 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That sounds like it was copied from the movie "Ridicule" - a lady in that movie goes through that exact process, mind you they might have been blowing powder from their hands not plates, I haven't seen the movie in ages. Cheers, Danielle ----- Original Message ----- > Colonial Williamsburg is selling a wonderfull powder. It is white and it is > perfumed, absolutely lovely. > The other day they showed a programme about Marie Antoinette in the > television from BBC Prime. > There were two maids standing on each side of the queen, who stood naked. > They had a plate with powder in front of their mouth, and they blew air on > the powder so that it got over to the queen. > When the queen had finished, you clearly noticed her footmarks on the floor. > I have never seen this before, but wondered if this was a comon thing to do > for upperclass? > > Bjarne -- _______________________________________________ Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 20 07:13:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9KBDkRZ007379 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 07:13:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9KBDDUo011907 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Oct 2004 05:13:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9KBD35V005125; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 05:13:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web50001.mail.yahoo.com (web50001.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9KBCf5V004955 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 05:12:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20041020111235.74004.qmail@web50001.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web50001.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:12:35 BST Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:12:35 +0100 (BST) From: Marquesate To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20041020103805.2932FCA08B@ws7-4.us4.outblaze.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-DCC-sonic.net-Metrics: net.indra.com 1156; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] OT: Brits on the list? Costume party interest? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi All, Apologies for "abusing" the list, but I remember that there were quite a few lovely people on here who I have met over the years. I am not sure anymore how many folks on this list live in Britain. last time I was aware must eb a couple of years back. However, I am trying to scope interest for a BIG costumed party in summer 2005. Granted, it is not *quite* historical, but it can be bent towards it. :-D Anyway, I made a general-interest poll, open to all, I'd be grateful - if you have any interest at all - to gather some info: http://www.livejournal.com/users/marquesate/162042.html Thanks dears, and now back to our scheduled purely historical costuming, as opposed to fantasy costumes based on historical ones. ;-) Nicole ___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 20 11:13:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9KFDGIx011135 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:13:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9KFC8Uo005307 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Oct 2004 09:12:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9KFBw5V037613; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 09:11:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9KFBp5V037513 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 09:11:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fa3.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.163]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id F01415EE06C for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 17:11:45 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <002701c4b6b7$241d0ad0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 17:11:54 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] chenille flower ornament X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello. Now i have started a new website with the current projekt i am making with chenille stumpwork flower ornaments. http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/chenillestumpwork.htm I have not made a watercolour of the gown yeat, because i have not had the time, but soon i wil post a picture so you will get an idea about how the projekt is going to be like. Many greetings HAPPY STITCHING Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 20 11:57:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9KFvKqw011780 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:57:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9KFufUo009658 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Oct 2004 09:56:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9KFuX5V072327; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 09:56:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.203]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9KFuU5V072297 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 09:56:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Aspasia1@gmail.com) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 75so986315rnl for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 08:56:30 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=lY4aKIfUTvyMLbfd9xvXID8SRPv/kiIZekPA/mtu+Jhz6QdtIX2IiC3pcgdh8Yw/KQ737b1a61QmfrDRGuRfb6AeWE6IO/sTYlo9/tZJ/Nr8DVZ6xV+7MeEG8wdhBWixJFg2j7GGr6OAVM1to+29miIi3PDjD+5WFJd8yRDTRy8 Received: by 10.38.181.77 with SMTP id d77mr2596512rnf; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 08:56:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.67.15 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 08:56:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4ef943ba04102008562d11d7f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:56:29 -0400 From: Bonnie Booker To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silk floss for Dummies... In-Reply-To: <102020040249.22529.4175D2470005F373000058012200750330010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <102020040249.22529.4175D2470005F373000058012200750330010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > > > Is there a silk floss equivalent of DMC cotton floss? What is your > > favorite entry level silk floss? I like Kreinik Mori or Serica and Maderia. Kreinik is 6 or 3 ply, Maderia 4. Both are colorfast and not given to bleeding. Important when working with black and red. Who's your favorite on-line vendor for > > such things? I like Thread express on line. They have a wide variety and some good sales. -- Aspasia Moonwind _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 20 12:01:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9KG1fSE011863 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:01:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9KG0uUo010232 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:00:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9KG0t5V075946; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:00:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9KG0p5V075835 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:00:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Kitsune242@aol.com) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.126.4de42e44 (16109) for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:00:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aol.com (mow-d26.webmail.aol.com [205.188.139.167]) by air-id12.mx.aol.com (v101_r1.6) with ESMTP id MAILINID121-3eed41768ba51fb; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:00:37 -0400 Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:00:37 -0400 From: Kitsune242@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: Re: cat off counter (was Re: [h-cost] costume cats & hoop skirts MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <2F638B0E.4E76A617.0BD9917F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 169.237.109.158 X-AOL-Language: english Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO We used mouse traps turned upside down on all the places we didn't want my honey's cats to jump. It would make a big noise and jump but yet it didn't hurt the cats and it seemed to work really well. A couple of times of that kind of scare and they stopped jumping on the mantle and book shelves. Kit In a message dated 10/8/2004 1:56:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Carolyn Kayta Barrows writes: > >As for disciplining him... he chooses to jump on the counter where there is >no one around.. he won't do it when we are around... it's his method of >attracting attention we think. If there was a tried and true method for >getting him to stop we haven't found it. > >Water guns from us lurking around the corner.. lemon juice on the bench... >it just doesn't work.. even ignoring him when he pushes a bowl or cup to the >floor (ceramic tiled!) doesn't work. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 20 12:11:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9KGBQPw012056 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:11:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9KGAjUo011357 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:10:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9KGAe5V083799; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:10:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9KGAc5V083712 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:10:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fa3.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.163]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 1D01947FEA7 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:10:33 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <002501c4b6bf$582bf0e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <102020040249.22529.4175D2470005F373000058012200750330010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> <4ef943ba04102008562d11d7f@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silk floss for Dummies... Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:10:40 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Who's your favorite on-line vendor for > > > such things? > > I like Thread express on line. They have a wide variety and some good sales. > > > -- > Aspasia Moonwind Hi, I say the same, Thread express is very good and fast ordering. Eterna Stranded Silk Floss is 12 stranded, so it would be 2 of their strands that goes with 1 of DMC strand. But i dont know if it is colour fast. For very fine embroidery their stranded floss is very fine. I use 1 strand for my embroideries Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 20 12:19:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9KGJcjI012238 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:19:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9KGDPUo011596 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:13:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9KGDJ5V085839; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:13:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9KGDD5X085667 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:13:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gia_gavino@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.118 ([204.127.197.118]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <200410201613080130000cjme>; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 16:13:08 +0000 Received: from [24.16.244.181] by 204.127.197.118; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 16:13:07 +0000 From: gia_gavino@comcast.net (Elena O'Tighearnaigh) To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silk floss for Dummies... Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 16:13:07 +0000 Message-Id: <102020041613.10490.41768E90000C16B2000028FA2200750784010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Sep 14 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: Z2lhX2dhdmlub0Bjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thread Express? Could you post the URL, please? I'm always looking for another online place for threads! Thank you. -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > > > > > > Is there a silk floss equivalent of DMC cotton floss? What is your > > > favorite entry level silk floss? > > I like Kreinik Mori or Serica and Maderia. Kreinik is 6 or 3 ply, > Maderia 4. Both are colorfast and not given to bleeding. Important > when working with black and red. > > Who's your favorite on-line vendor for > > > such things? > > I like Thread express on line. They have a wide variety and some good sales. > > > -- > Aspasia Moonwind > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 20 13:13:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9KHDq3h013050 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 13:13:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9KHD7Uo018427 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:13:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9KHCl5V036143; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:12:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.10.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9KHCd5V035980 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:12:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from smnco37@yahoo.co.uk) Message-ID: <20041020171233.44652.qmail@web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [82.112.144.103] by web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:12:33 BST Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:12:33 +0100 (BST) From: julian wilson Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Brits on the list? Costume party interest? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20041020111235.74004.qmail@web50001.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, either something is wrong with my browser or I'm having trouble understanding the working of your Poll site - I wanted to fill-out the Poll, [because the idea interests me, and I know a number of LOTR enthuasists over here - and our medieval living-history Companie has nothing scheduled for next August so I would have been at a loose-end], and can't make anything happen when I select the "fill-out-the Poll page- all I get is the Results page - nothing else. Julian, in "olde" Jersey Marquesate wrote: Hi All, Apologies for "abusing" the list, but I remember that there were quite a few lovely people on here who I have met over the years. I am not sure anymore how many folks on this list live in Britain. last time I was aware must eb a couple of years back. However, I am trying to scope interest for a BIG costumed party in summer 2005. Granted, it is not *quite* historical, but it can be bent towards it. :-D Anyway, I made a general-interest poll, open to all, I'd be grateful - if you have any interest at all - to gather some info: http://www.livejournal.com/users/marquesate/162042.html Thanks dears, and now back to our scheduled purely historical costuming, as opposed to fantasy costumes based on historical ones. ;-) Nicole ___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 20 14:04:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9KI4Y5S013873 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:04:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9KI3tUo024531 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:03:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9KI3l5V077613; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:03:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from arkroyal.concentric.com (arkroyal.concentric.com [207.155.252.155]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9KI3S5V077380 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:03:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) Received: (root@localhost) by arkroyal.concentric.com id OAA04383; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:03:28 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.17] Message-ID: <200410201803.OAA04383@arkroyal.concentric.com> From: Julie To: Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:03:28 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <200410201714.i9KHEP5X037612@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i9KI3S5V077380 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] chenille flower ornament X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne, they're gorgeous. I can't even imaging embroidering like this and then not wearing it myself . Julie in San Diego ---- h-costume@indra.com wrote: > > Send h-costume mailing list submissions to > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > h-costume-request@mail.indra.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > h-costume-owner@mail.indra.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of h-costume digest..." > Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 17:11:54 +0200 > > Hello. > Now i have started a new website with the current projekt i am making with > chenille stumpwork flower ornaments. > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/chenillestumpwork.htm > I have not made a watercolour of the gown yeat, because i have not had the > time, but soon i wil post a picture so you will get an idea about how the > projekt is going to be like. > Many greetings HAPPY STITCHING > > Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 20 19:06:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9KN6w9n017859 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 19:06:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9KN6JUo029899 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Oct 2004 17:06:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9KN605V015031; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 17:06:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com (adsl-065-013-105-239.sip.tys.bellsouth.net [65.13.105.239]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9KN5u5V014964 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 17:05:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i9KNR2Bf032543 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 19:27:02 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: (from sfarmer@localhost) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3/Submit) id i9KNR1iO032542 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 19:27:01 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 19:27:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Farmer Message-Id: <200410202327.i9KNR1iO032542@sabre.goldsword.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Younger Eleonora in red In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20041019194150.022ec7a0@64.87.54.245> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Hi Jerusha, > > Thanks so much Jerusha for sharing the images with us, especially that > larger image. I had thought the partlet was smocked and beaded when I saw > it on TV, but I could never quite get a clear enough image to state for > certain. When I get some time, I am hoping to recreate this partlet, as I > think it is one of the nicest I have seen. YOu're more than welcome. Well, it looks like you've got 2 sets of eyes that think it's smocked and beaded. I can't wait to see it when you're finished. Jerusha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 20 20:38:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9L0cGIQ019280 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 20:38:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9L0bcUo007258 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:37:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9L0bS5V065674; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:37:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9L0bP5W065621 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:37:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i9L0YBTA029736 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 20:34:11 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 20:34:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <417704C2.7040900@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 20:37:22 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Hat remark 1661 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Again from the serialized Pepy's diary: much offended in mind at a proud trick my man Will hath got, to keep his hat on in the house, but I will not speak of it to him to-day; but I fear I shall be troubled with his pride and laziness, though in other things he is good enough. http://www.pepysdiary.com/archive/1661/10/20/index.php -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent In the third presidential debate, for instance, Bush said "one part of my foreign policy" is that "I believe that God wants everybody to be free." In other words, Bush was justifying the invasion of Iraq, at least partly, on the basis that it was what God wanted. -- Robert Parry _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 20 20:49:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9L0nGe1019444 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 20:49:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9L0mbUo007850 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:48:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9L0mW5V070580; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:48:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065d10.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065d10.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.251]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9L0mU5V070555 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:48:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from heather.jones@earthlink.net) Received: from h-69-3-233-221.snfccasy.dynamic.covad.net ([69.3.233.221] helo=[10.0.1.2]) by pop-a065d10.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CKR81-00018u-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 17:48:29 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20041015145740.35013.qmail@web50605.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041015145740.35013.qmail@web50605.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 23:32:00 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] a list of extant clothing Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:57 AM -0400 10/15/04, Kathy Page wrote: >Heather, > >You might be the right person to ask this question >of.. in hopes you have come across the items I did. >Since your catalogue tends to predate these Italian >camicias (I believe) but perhaps you might recognize >them and could hopefully head me in the right >direction for better information. >I found them in a pdf version of the book "Old Italian >Lace", photos can be found in these pdf's: SOrry -- I hadn't realized I hadn't answered this. These items are outside the scope of my particular project, so I'm afraid I can't help you on them. Heather -- **** Heather Rose Jones heather.jones@earthlink.net **** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 20 23:46:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9L3k7Wm022205 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 23:46:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9L3jMUo020826 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Oct 2004 21:45:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9L3j75V054494; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 21:45:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9L3j45V054463 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 21:45:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B6C85D04B for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 20:45:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041020204041.022b1e80@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 20:45:01 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kimiko Small Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] image of Jane Grey? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello all Has anyone ever seen the full info, or a color version of this image? http://photos.ladybrooke.com/sca/images/velvettudorgown/janegrey.jpg Parts of it kinda looks like the other image once thought to be Jane Grey http://www.tudor-portraits.com/CatherineParr.jpg But I've never seen this image before, and something about it looks... off somehow. Does anyone have more info? Thanks, Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 21 00:28:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9L4Sq6i022716 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 00:28:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9L4SLUo023634 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Oct 2004 22:28:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9L4SG5V074133; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 22:28:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mailrelay.k12.hi.us (mailrelay.k12.hi.us [165.248.247.161]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9L4SE5V074069 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 22:28:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lisleong@k12.hi.us) Received: from WS-002 (unknown [165.248.247.155]) by mailrelay.k12.hi.us (Postfix) with SMTP id 1DF893F02 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:28:10 -1000 (HST) Received: From makani ([165.248.1.195]) by WS-002 (WebShield SMTP v4.5 MR1a P0803.345); id 1098332889471; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:28:09 -1000 Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:28:09 -1000 (HST) From: annora X-X-Sender: lisleong@makani To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] image of Jane Grey? In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20041020204041.022b1e80@64.87.54.245> Message-ID: References: <5.2.1.1.0.20041020204041.022b1e80@64.87.54.245> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Has anyone ever seen the full info, or a color version of this image? > http://photos.ladybrooke.com/sca/images/velvettudorgown/janegrey.jpg > > Parts of it kinda looks like the other image once thought to be Jane Grey > http://www.tudor-portraits.com/CatherineParr.jpg I've seen it several times alhough of course I can't put my finger on where right now. I've always seen it labeled as Jane Grey/Dudley but now that you've planted a seed, the jewel on the _bodice_ of both portraits appears to be the same--oval with three pendant pearls and a crown on top. And wasn't the _necklace_ jewel one of the keys in re-identifying the second portrait as Catherine Parr since that matched the one of her in red one later? --annora _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 21 00:51:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9L4p5RW022974 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 00:51:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9L4oRUo024787 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Oct 2004 22:50:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9L4oJ5V083076; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 22:50:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mailrelay.k12.hi.us (mailrelay.k12.hi.us [165.248.247.160]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9L4oH5V083048 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 22:50:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lisleong@k12.hi.us) Received: from WS003 (unknown [165.248.247.156]) by mailrelay.k12.hi.us (Postfix) with SMTP id A92A43F54 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:50:16 -1000 (HST) Received: From makani ([165.248.1.195]) by WS003 (WebShield SMTP v4.5 MR1a P0803.345); id 109833421642; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:50:16 -1000 Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:50:16 -1000 (HST) From: annora X-X-Sender: lisleong@makani To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] image of Jane Grey? In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20041020204041.022b1e80@64.87.54.245> Message-ID: References: <5.2.1.1.0.20041020204041.022b1e80@64.87.54.245> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Has anyone ever seen the full info, or a color version of this image? > http://photos.ladybrooke.com/sca/images/velvettudorgown/janegrey.jpg It bugs me that I can't remember where I saw this. This is NOT a good version, but the cover of the book Lady Jane Grey, Nine Days Queen by Alison Plowden shows a fraction of it. http://tinyurl.com/3vby4 All I can find says it's by an unknown artist and is in the Lord Hastings collection. Also found some questions about portrait identity at http://home.earthlink.net/~elisale/threeportraits.html --annora _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 21 02:23:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9L6Ntfa030201 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 02:23:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9L6NEUo000462 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Oct 2004 00:23:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9L6N45V023790; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 00:23:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net (starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.227]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9L6N15V023771 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 00:23:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from dialup-4.152.198.241.dial1.atlanta1.level3.net ([4.152.198.241] helo=MOM) by starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CKWLl-0004Cc-3x for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 23:23:01 -0700 Message-ID: <008901c4b736$69f57ef0$0300a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <015d01c4b61f$af42f9a0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Virginia 1830's Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 02:18:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 140fedcc4d524cc6b18d26c2e407058b94f5150ab1c16ac08f4233f47979de26ed766ca6aa8c368e8c24c535d702b194350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.152.198.241 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i9L6Ntfa030201 Status: RO I asked my friend who was the curator of historic photographic material and publications at Valentine Museum. She says the only image she recalls showing cotton was in the Cook Collection. She believes this photo was taken in South Carolina. She said that she hasn't seen anything written about cotton grown in Virginia. Tobacco has always been the big cash crop in Virginia. My husband said he has seen on farm with cotton out near the mountains. I did check on the VA Dept. of Agriculture website and cotton was not listed in the top 20 crops. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Online Reference Library, AND Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumegallery.com/research.htm www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 21 02:41:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9L6fuXo002551 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 02:41:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9L6fBUo001058 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Oct 2004 00:41:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9L6f75V031433; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 00:41:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net (starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.227]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9L6f35V031402 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 00:41:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from dialup-4.152.198.241.dial1.atlanta1.level3.net ([4.152.198.241] helo=MOM) by starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CKWdD-0002n9-0D for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 23:41:03 -0700 Message-ID: <00b701c4b738$ef7c7860$0300a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <100.401a322.2ea54327@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] powdered wigs Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 02:41:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 140fedcc4d524cc6b18d26c2e407058b94f5150ab1c16ac08f4233f47979de2640b58bbcf1d09820a1f0e2d6f5c1050e350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.152.198.241 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i9L6fuXo002551 Status: RO Many thanks to everyone for answering my question about powdered wigs. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Online Reference Library, AND Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumegallery.com/research.htm www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 21 09:12:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9LDCY2v028116 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 09:12:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9LDBmUo001294 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Oct 2004 07:11:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9LDAP5V094973; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 07:11:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9LDAM5V094886 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 07:10:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m2.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABAZRPKLAJ6EY3S for (sender ); Thu, 21 Oct 2004 06:10:02 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCsCU/KuUYrZcgbjbMIrinCYPJStDyIb+5w== Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KAGGRHS3; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 06:09:22 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 07:58:25 -0500 Message-ID: <20041021.075826.-329125.2.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-9 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-ContentStamp: 2:3:851951734 X-MAIL-INFO: 31abd39fd3d3079e7edf1a5b4a631a6363ab7a97cb8a1bf39adb5beac7175bae03ce17931e5b4f27ee3eebcea3cece0bba9ee7d73f47ee0f7f2f03027f43bee3027b2b7f674bfbab3be34ee3e38f3a0e9b832aba07cfef73e3bb77df33aabe2aea375ef70bda3adb2ac357ee7feed77ab37a1b0a1bfe0a0a4747eacafa4f5f9e0b4fee0ee74b3e5a3ee32eba2e9b3f9b833f3fcf8f9f7eef07bef7072a2abe5ef75e5e4b2ea7023763fada9a4ab79a8a8a4a73b773 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] New Dress Diary X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If any of you are interested, I've begun another Elizabethan dress diary. You can go to: http://members.tripod.com/seamstrix/ and click on 'QE2' to see what I have up so far. Karen ________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/ month - visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 21 10:10:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9LEAcG8028920 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:10:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9LE9rUo007419 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Oct 2004 08:09:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9LE9o5V026587; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 08:09:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-04-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (ms-smtp-04-smtplb.ohiordc.rr.com [65.24.5.138]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9LE9k5V026572 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 08:09:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ailith@neo.rr.com) Received: from ms-mss-04 ([10.24.12.14]) by ms-smtp-04-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i9LE9hHH023986 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:09:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from columbus.rr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ms-mss-04.columbus.rr.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0I5X00DWZU07X1@ms-mss-04.columbus.rr.com> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:09:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.24.12.105] (Forwarded-For: [24.123.32.1]) by ms-mss-04.columbus.rr.com (mshttpd); Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:09:43 -0400 Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:09:43 -0400 From: ailith@neo.rr.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Dress Diary To: Historical Costume Message-id: <1347b8c134598c.134598c1347b8c@columbus.rr.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: iPlanet Messenger Express 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-language: en Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It looks lovely so far! You have one image not displaying, though. It's the last one--sleeve lining, I think. kate ----- Original Message ----- From: seamstrix@juno.com Date: Thursday, October 21, 2004 8:58 am Subject: [h-cost] New Dress Diary > If any of you are interested, I've begun another Elizabethan dress > diary.You can go to: > > http://members.tripod.com/seamstrix/ > > and click on 'QE2' to see what I have up so far. > > > > > Karen > > ________________________________________________________________ > Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. > Now includes pop-up blocker! > Only $14.95/ month - visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 21 10:23:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9LENGjA029116 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:23:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9LEMeUo008891 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Oct 2004 08:22:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9LEMT5V034591; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 08:22:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9LEMQ5V034537 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 08:22:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brujne@creighton.edu) Received: from cindyabel (cla53081.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA03599 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 09:22:23 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] image of Jane Grey? Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 09:22:23 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20041020204041.022b1e80@64.87.54.245> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If I remember right from Roy Strong's book "Tudor and Jacobean Portraiture" this portrait, though id'ed as Jane Grey, is either in private ownership, lost or(gulp!)destroyed. It was also thought to be cut down from an original full-length portrait. I do think this or a copy was used for the cover image for the republication of Alison Plowden's "Life of Lady Jane Grey" See bn.com or amazon.com for this image. Wonder if it is actually Kathryn Parr with the reidentification of the Hampton Court painting of Jane as Kathryn Parr. Ann Rinaldi, an author known for her young adult historical novels, has a new one coming out in Feb, on Jane. Cindy Abel -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Kimiko Small Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 10:45 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] image of Jane Grey? Hello all Has anyone ever seen the full info, or a color version of this image? http://photos.ladybrooke.com/sca/images/velvettudorgown/janegrey.jpg Parts of it kinda looks like the other image once thought to be Jane Grey http://www.tudor-portraits.com/CatherineParr.jpg But I've never seen this image before, and something about it looks... off somehow. Does anyone have more info? Thanks, Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 21 10:42:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9LEgauu029447 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:42:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9LEfeUo010831 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Oct 2004 08:41:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9LEfV5V047649; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 08:41:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com (adsl-065-013-105-239.sip.tys.bellsouth.net [65.13.105.239]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9LEfS5V047561 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 08:41:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i9LF2aBf036207 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 11:02:36 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: (from sfarmer@localhost) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3/Submit) id i9LF2a21036206 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 11:02:36 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 11:02:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Farmer Message-Id: <200410211502.i9LF2a21036206@sabre.goldsword.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] image of Jane Grey? In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20041020204041.022b1e80@64.87.54.245> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Hello all > > Has anyone ever seen the full info, or a color version of this image? > http://photos.ladybrooke.com/sca/images/velvettudorgown/janegrey.jpg > > Parts of it kinda looks like the other image once thought to be Jane Grey > http://www.tudor-portraits.com/CatherineParr.jpg > > But I've never seen this image before, and something about it looks... off > somehow. Does anyone have more info? Look at the fabric. that's very similar to the fabric used in the Eleanor of Toledo painting. There's an image floating around somewhere of one of the french queens wearing a dress very similar to that one. I think "glittersweet" has a color image of that one. Jerusha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 21 11:49:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9LFn8Jd030259 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 11:49:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9LFg1Uo017632 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Oct 2004 09:42:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9LFfj5V093485; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 09:41:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.mdx.safepages.com (mail1.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9LFff5V093424 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 09:41:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail1.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id C70AA13D799; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 15:41:39 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust196.tnt3.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.197.196]) by mail1.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E26BF13D66F for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 15:41:38 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <07f601c4b784$7bb8ef20$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20041015145740.35013.qmail@web50605.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] a list of extant clothing Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:41:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Heather-- I know it's mostly outside of the time you mentioned, but (other than the Mary of Hungary gown) have you run across any extant female garments dating to between ~1490-1530? -E _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 21 16:50:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9LKoi9E003806 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:50:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9LKng4a013425 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Oct 2004 14:49:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9LKnTGs040626; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 14:49:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from lakermmtao10.cox.net (lakermmtao10.cox.net [68.230.240.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9LKnPGs040484 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 14:49:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from vmaa2@cox.net) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.10.139.124]) by lakermmtao10.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.04 201-2131-111-106-20040729) with ESMTP id <20041021204920.GONR15775.lakermmtao10.cox.net@VMAAHQ> for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:49:20 -0400 From: "Linda Rice" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Virginia 1830's Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:58:45 -0400 Message-ID: <021401c4b7b0$c46c5e60$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 In-Reply-To: <15b.423fa96c.2ea77aa8@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i9LKnPGs040484 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi~! This is sorta my train of thought as well.... that cotton was being grown if not in eastern Virginia, at least in the south! Close enough that it should be easily obtainable and not very expensive. I'm sure that "linen" could probably encompass nettle, hemp, etc and that it was being produced alongside of cotton. After all, weren't linen-wool and linen-cotton fabrics known and used? I can see quite a bit of research looming ahead.... ;o) And in the mean time, if I can find lightweight linen affordably, I'll use it for underclothes just because I think it's nicer. If not, then muslin will do! I actually found natural cotton muslin in a satin twill weave- medium weight- at Walmart last week, for a BUCK a yard! Woo Hoo! Got the whole 11 yards! So far I'm doing pretty well with patterns for dresses and shifts, thanks to all of you. Anybody know of any patterns for caps, hats and other headgear? Accessories of all kinds, really, as we all know they can really make the look complete. Pax, ::Linda:: -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of AlbertCat@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 4:24 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Virginia 1830's In a message dated 10/19/2004 11:24:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, r.carnegie@verizon.net writes: > I don't know if the assertion that cotton was expensive as it was not > family made is true. MY question is.... Where is flax grown in America....and VA? How could linen be cheaper if cotton is being grown all around and slaves are there to produce the product? The cotton gin has been around for a while by the 1830s. And where do poorer people and slaves get their clothes? Especially if living on a plantation? Might a house servant get a hand-me-down cotton dress before a silk one....especially for work. What about wool production....in VA? What is it used for and when worn? Who would wear wool on a VA summer day to work in? I'm not talking about Indian cotton or mull, y'know. Where flour sacks made of linen? I think one could make a cotton dress and be just fine depicting 1830s VA rural life. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 21 16:53:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9LKrgDs003824 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:53:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9LKqv4a013746 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Oct 2004 14:52:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9LKqsGs043334; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 14:52:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from lakermmtao10.cox.net (lakermmtao10.cox.net [68.230.240.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9LKnfGs040715 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 14:49:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from vmaa2@cox.net) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.10.139.124]) by lakermmtao10.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.04 201-2131-111-106-20040729) with ESMTP id <20041021204935.GORD15775.lakermmtao10.cox.net@VMAAHQ> for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:49:35 -0400 From: "Linda Rice" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Virginia 1830's Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:58:45 -0400 Message-ID: <021601c4b7b0$cc43d0a0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 In-Reply-To: <008901c4b736$69f57ef0$0300a8c0@MOM> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey Penny~! Wow, thanks for checking into that! So, are you saying that the typical 1830's Virginia farm folk would have been wearing linen or wool? That is very interesting! Obviously I need to get myself to a library, and soon! As far as current farming- I know that there are extensive cotton fields in the Suffolk- Southampton Co. region. Ever since a lot of peanut farming went to South America, our farmers are trying anything they can to stay in business. Pax, ::Linda:: On Behalf Of Penny Ladnier Subject: Re: [h-cost] Virginia 1830's I asked my friend who was the curator of historic photographic material and publications at Valentine Museum. She says the only image she recalls showing cotton was in the Cook Collection. She believes this photo was taken in South Carolina. She said that she hasn't seen anything written about cotton grown in Virginia. Tobacco has always been the big cash crop in Virginia. My husband said he has seen on farm with cotton out near the mountains. I did check on the VA Dept. of Agriculture website and cotton was not listed in the top 20 crops. Penny E. Ladnier _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 21 16:53:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9LKrlXL003827 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:53:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9LKqh4a013712 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Oct 2004 14:52:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9LKqQGs042989; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 14:52:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from lakermmtao10.cox.net (lakermmtao10.cox.net [68.230.240.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9LKnWGs040596 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 14:49:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from vmaa2@cox.net) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.10.139.124]) by lakermmtao10.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.04 201-2131-111-106-20040729) with ESMTP id <20041021204927.GOPT15775.lakermmtao10.cox.net@VMAAHQ> for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:49:27 -0400 From: "Linda Rice" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Virginia 1830's Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:58:45 -0400 Message-ID: <021501c4b7b0$c9277570$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 In-Reply-To: <00f701c4b688$284e63d0$0300a8c0@MOM> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i9LKnWGs040596 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Penny- You are the Information Goddess! I bow to your magnificent brain! ;o) Gosh, I haven't been on the James River plantation tours in *years*. They are a wonderful way to spend a summer's day, just hopping from one incredible house to another. Sadly, the last time I was up there I saw little in the way of preserved clothing. (Or even repro, for that matter) Yes, our house does do spinning and weaving demonstrations. But, being as we are in the middle of a very upscale neighborhood, we are not allowed to have livestock. When the farm was sold and cut up, the developers left only 2 acres surrounding the house. They actually wanted to tear it down, it was in such bad shape then. It has come a *long* way in the past few years! Thanks bunches! ::Linda:: -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of Penny Ladnier Subject: Re: [h-cost] Virginia 1830's {snipped for brevity} I know that George Washington's birthplace in Westmoreland County produced wool. It is a still working plantation, and they do demonstrations of shearing the sheep and spinning wool. I know the Shirley and Berkley Plantations are still working plantations. I will be talking with one of the historians from the Valentine tonight. I will ask her about the crops, wool, and cotton. Penny E. Ladnier _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 21 17:36:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9LLaIav004443 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:36:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9LLZW4a018539 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Oct 2004 15:35:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9LLZNTd075355; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 15:35:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from lakermmtao08.cox.net (lakermmtao08.cox.net [68.230.240.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9LLZKTd075252 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 15:35:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from vmaa2@cox.net) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.10.139.124]) by lakermmtao08.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.04 201-2131-111-106-20040729) with ESMTP id <20041021213515.BIA9757.lakermmtao08.cox.net@VMAAHQ> for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:35:15 -0400 From: "Linda Rice" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Virginia 1830 Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:44:57 -0400 Message-ID: <021701c4b7b7$3877f3e0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 In-Reply-To: <00d101c4b596$f62813c0$0300a8c0@MOM> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i9LLZKTd075252 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey Penny! Thanks for these great leads. Yes, it does look like a trip to Richmond would be a Very Good Thing. Yes, I'd love to go to lunch, but only if we stay clear of the antiques, book, and fabric stores! ;o)) (Penny is a bad influence, or a good one, depending on the state of one's bank account that day!) Penny, if the Valentine no longer has curators for their collections, how are things shown, handled, cared for, etc? Pax, ::Linda:: On Behalf Of Penny Ladnier Subject: Re: [h-cost] Virginia 1830 Hi Linda, You might want to make a trip to Richmond to the Virginia State Library. It is now located next to city hall. They have a wealth of information about the state. You might also want to check into their genealogical records. They copy photos of paintings, diaries, etc. from people researching their family's history and stores them on in an area of the Library. You do not need to be a family member to pull the records. Another place you might want to research is the Virginia Historical Society on the Blvd. in Richmond. They also have a wealth of information. I know the Valentine Museum has a massive image collection. Unfortunately they no longer have curators for the image or costume collections. And if you come to Richmond, you do have to go to lunch or dinner with me! I haven't seen you in a long time. Penny E. Ladnier _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 21 17:50:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9LLo0Jx004660 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:50:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9LLnJ4a020061 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Oct 2004 15:49:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9LLnETd085072; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 15:49:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-118.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9LLn8Td084885 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 15:49:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by mail.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95B05425D5 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:19:07 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <41782EBB.90200@reddawn.net> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:48:43 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Virginia 1830's References: <021401c4b7b0$c46c5e60$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> In-Reply-To: <021401c4b7b0$c46c5e60$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Linda Rice wrote: > Hi~! > > This is sorta my train of thought as well.... that cotton was being grown if not in eastern > Virginia, at least in the south! Wherever it was being grown, by the early 1830's cotton mills were in full swing in the northeast and young America was producing large quantities of printed cloth for the market. Prior to that most fabric was imported, aside from small quantities of linen or wool made on family farms. While I don't have information on clothing, there was enough cotton around in households that scrap and piecework quilting really began to take off in this period -- prior to this time quilted covers were made in 'whole cloth', from large sections of fabric. By the 1830's women are using leftover cotton prints for quilts instead. There must have been a lot of cotton cut up for clothes, yet it was not so cheap that a housewife would throw out the scraps, as was done by the 1850's. The book "Dating Fabrics" by Trestain has a chapter on these early cotton prints, with many color photo samples. > So far I'm doing pretty well with patterns for dresses and shifts, thanks to all of you. Anybody > know of any patterns for caps, hats and other headgear? Accessories of all kinds, really, as we all > know they can really make the look complete. http://www.kannikskorner.com/patwomen2.htm This may be too early for you, but they do have cap patterns. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 21 18:31:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9LMVS7m005312 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 18:31:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9LMUp4a024209 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:30:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9LMUeTd014310; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:30:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from lakermmtao04.cox.net (lakermmtao04.cox.net [68.230.240.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9LMUbTd014206 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:30:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from vmaa2@cox.net) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.10.139.124]) by lakermmtao04.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.04 201-2131-111-106-20040729) with ESMTP id <20041021223030.PTK18054.lakermmtao04.cox.net@VMAAHQ> for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 18:30:30 -0400 From: "Linda Rice" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Virginia 1830's Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 18:40:05 -0400 Message-ID: <021f01c4b7be$ee279fe0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 In-Reply-To: <41782EBB.90200@reddawn.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i9LMUbTd014206 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks Dawn~! Yep, I've looked at the Kannik's Corner stuff, (as well as lots of other sites!) and these caps about the same as the colonial-era caps that the house director has been told to get away from. All the docents have the standard-issue mob caps, and I'd really like to get them into something different. I think paying attention to small details will go a long way to differentiate this house from the other historic sites in the city, which is part of the requirements. Pax, ::Linda:: Behalf Of Dawn Subject: Re: [h-cost] Virginia 1830's Linda Rice wrote: > Hi~! > > This is sorta my train of thought as well.... that cotton was being grown if not in eastern > Virginia, at least in the south! Wherever it was being grown, by the early 1830's cotton mills were in full swing in the northeast and young America was producing large quantities of printed cloth for the market. Prior to that most fabric was imported, aside from small quantities of linen or wool made on family farms. While I don't have information on clothing, there was enough cotton around in households that scrap and piecework quilting really began to take off in this period -- prior to this time quilted covers were made in 'whole cloth', from large sections of fabric. By the 1830's women are using leftover cotton prints for quilts instead. There must have been a lot of cotton cut up for clothes, yet it was not so cheap that a housewife would throw out the scraps, as was done by the 1850's. The book "Dating Fabrics" by Trestain has a chapter on these early cotton prints, with many color photo samples. >Anybody know of any patterns for caps, hats and other headgear? Accessories of all kinds, really, as we all > know they can really make the look complete. http://www.kannikskorner.com/patwomen2.htm This may be too early for you, but they do have cap patterns. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 21 18:54:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9LMsTao005682 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 18:54:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9LMrj4a026492 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:53:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9LMreTd029269; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:53:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-118.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9LMraTd029163 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:53:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by mail.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A071C425D5 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 18:23:41 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <41783DDE.1020404@reddawn.net> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:53:18 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Virginia 1830's References: <021f01c4b7be$ee279fe0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> In-Reply-To: <021f01c4b7be$ee279fe0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Linda Rice wrote: > Thanks Dawn~! > > Yep, I've looked at the Kannik's Corner stuff, (as well as lots of other sites!) and these caps > about the same as the colonial-era caps that the house director has been told to get away from. I was also going to mention that Godey's began publication in the 1830's so you may be able to find early issues with either images, or with directions for caps and small accessories that would be made at home. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 21 19:13:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9LNDBQg005939 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 19:13:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9LNCe4a027876 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:12:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9LNCWTd040612; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:12:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.141]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9LNCQTd040522 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:12:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Oct 2004 23:12:21 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041022000933.01457750@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 00:12:25 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: RE: [h-cost] Virginia 1830's In-Reply-To: <021401c4b7b0$c46c5e60$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> References: <15b.423fa96c.2ea77aa8@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >So far I'm doing pretty well with patterns for dresses and shifts, thanks >to all of you. Anybody >know of any patterns for caps, hats and other headgear? Accessories of all >kinds, really, as we all >know they can really make the look complete. If you can get hold of a copy of "The Workwoman's Guide" originally published in the 1830's in England, but recently reproduced in facsimile form, you will find many caps, cuffs aprons and so on, with the original directions. It takes some working through, but is a wonderful resource. I can give more details if you want - too idle to go and look it out of my library. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 21 19:38:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9LNcOXm006356 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 19:38:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9LNbo4a029840 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:37:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9LNbgTd055377; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:37:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from lakermmtao11.cox.net (lakermmtao11.cox.net [68.230.240.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9LNbdTd055311 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:37:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from vmaa2@cox.net) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.10.139.124]) by lakermmtao11.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.04 201-2131-111-106-20040729) with ESMTP id <20041021233734.BOAM16111.lakermmtao11.cox.net@VMAAHQ> for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 19:37:34 -0400 From: "Linda Rice" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Virginia 1830's Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 19:47:05 -0400 Message-ID: <022401c4b7c8$4ba65270$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20041022000933.01457750@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/540/Tue Oct 19 06:59:23 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks Suzi~! I actually managed to find a used copy- it's now on the way to my house! ;o) The write up made it sound very useful for many things, not just clothing. Pax, ::Linda:: On Behalf Of Suzi Clarke Subject: RE: [h-cost] Virginia 1830's If you can get hold of a copy of "The Workwoman's Guide" originally published in the 1830's in England, but recently reproduced in facsimile form, you will find many caps, cuffs aprons and so on, with the original directions. It takes some working through, but is a wonderful resource. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 21 22:42:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9M2gUJw009236 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 22:42:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9M2as4a015655 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Oct 2004 20:36:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9M2adTd043148; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 20:36:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065d14.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065d14.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.252]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9M2abTd043125 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 20:36:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from heather.jones@earthlink.net) Received: from h-69-3-233-221.snfccasy.dynamic.covad.net ([69.3.233.221] helo=[10.0.1.2]) by pop-a065d14.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CKpIC-0002VN-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 19:36:37 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <07f601c4b784$7bb8ef20$0400a8c0@compaqub> References: <20041015145740.35013.qmail@web50605.mail.yahoo.com> <07f601c4b784$7bb8ef20$0400a8c0@compaqub> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 19:16:14 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] a list of extant clothing Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/545/Thu Oct 21 07:33:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/545/Thu Oct 21 07:33:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i9M2abTd043125 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:41 AM -0500 10/21/04, E House wrote: >Heather-- >I know it's mostly outside of the time you mentioned, but (other than the >Mary of Hungary gown) have you run across any extant female garments dating >to between ~1490-1530? You might find some useful stuff in: Nicolescu, Corina. 1970. Costumul de Curete în T,arile Române (Sec. XIV-XVIII). Muzeul de Arta al Republicii Socialiste România, Bucures,ti. (Sorry about all the work-rounds for odd characters.) The book is in Romanian, but includes both photographs and cutting diagrams of the covered garments. The ones from the period you're interested in are largely kaftan-like garments clearly of Turkish influence. I believe there's at least one woman's garment included (plus possible female use of the kaftan-like objects). I have no idea how available this book is -- I vaguely knew it existed and then happened on a second-hand copy that I snapped up. Heather -- **** Heather Rose Jones heather.jones@earthlink.net **** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 22 09:28:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9MDSJ2B021565 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:28:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9MDRJ4a002124 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 22 Oct 2004 07:27:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9MDQvTd012509; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 07:26:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9MDQtTd012437 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 07:26:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-8.13) id AA9F1DE80074; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:26:55 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.107 ([209.131.81.107] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 22 Oct 04 13:26:52 -0000 Message-ID: <001301c4b83b$cc319800$6b5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <021401c4b7b0$c46c5e60$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Virginia 1830's Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:34:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/545/Thu Oct 21 07:33:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/545/Thu Oct 21 07:33:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As someone has already suggested, Sturbridge Village (Ma.) and the Sherbourne Museum (Vt.) should be able to help you re these garments. I am still looking for my source book, but when I was looking at the cotton industry last year, I came across a cost comparison that went something like this: Cotton per yard at the beginning of the 19th C, at about the-time of Slaghters Mill (RI), is suggested at about $3.00 a yard. By 1825, cotton was then about$.13 a yard! These are US market prices. The inventions and development of machinery and other mass production processes as well as the cheap labor force (slaves) for the fiber itself were contributing factors. But all these brought cotton solidly iin the sceane for ordinary people...part of the 'democratization of fashion'. All the patterns of stripes, checks as well as small floral prints were available. You might check the fabric pattern books that have been issued for quilt research. They are also applicable for clothing. There were different grades of fabric and finish that of course would have affected the cost. Kathleen---- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Rice" To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 4:58 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Virginia 1830's > Hi~! > > This is sorta my train of thought as well.... that cotton was being grown if not in eastern > Virginia, at least in the south! Close enough that it should be easily obtainable and not very > expensive. I'm sure that "linen" could probably encompass nettle, hemp, etc and that it was being > produced alongside of cotton. After all, weren't linen-wool and linen-cotton fabrics known and > used? > > I can see quite a bit of research looming ahead.... ;o) > > And in the mean time, if I can find lightweight linen affordably, I'll use it for underclothes just > because I think it's nicer. If not, then muslin will do! I actually found natural cotton muslin in > a satin twill weave- medium weight- at Walmart last week, for a BUCK a yard! Woo Hoo! Got the whole > 11 yards! > > So far I'm doing pretty well with patterns for dresses and shifts, thanks to all of you. Anybody > know of any patterns for caps, hats and other headgear? Accessories of all kinds, really, as we all > know they can really make the look complete. > > Pax, > ::Linda:: > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of > AlbertCat@aol.com > Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 4:24 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Virginia 1830's > > In a message dated 10/19/2004 11:24:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, > r.carnegie@verizon.net writes: > > > I don't know if the assertion that cotton was expensive as it was not > > family made is true. > > MY question is.... Where is flax grown in America....and VA? How could linen > be cheaper if cotton is being grown all around and slaves are there to produce > the product? The cotton gin has been around for a while by the 1830s. And > where do poorer people and slaves get their clothes? Especially if living on a > plantation? Might a house servant get a hand-me-down cotton dress before a silk > one....especially for work. What about wool production....in VA? What is it > used for and when worn? Who would wear wool on a VA summer day to work in? I'm > not talking about Indian cotton or mull, y'know. Where flour sacks made of > linen? > > I think one could make a cotton dress and be just fine depicting 1830s VA > rural life. > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 22 09:31:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9MDUxZI021574 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:30:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9MDUH4a002363 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 22 Oct 2004 07:30:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9MDUGTd014168; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 07:30:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9MDUDTd014117 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 07:30:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-8.13) id AB601B79008C; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:30:08 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.107 ([209.131.81.107] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 22 Oct 04 13:29:56 -0000 Message-ID: <002301c4b83c$3fe2e740$6b5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <021f01c4b7be$ee279fe0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> <41783DDE.1020404@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Virginia 1830's Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:37:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/545/Thu Oct 21 07:33:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/545/Thu Oct 21 07:33:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The Cunnington volume for the 19th C has a lot of hats. Designs are taken from the usual sources from portraiture to magazine illustrations. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 6:53 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Virginia 1830's > Linda Rice wrote: > > > Thanks Dawn~! > > > > Yep, I've looked at the Kannik's Corner stuff, (as well as lots of other sites!) and these caps > > about the same as the colonial-era caps that the house director has been told to get away from. > > I was also going to mention that Godey's began publication in the 1830's > so you may be able to find early issues with either images, or with > directions for caps and small accessories that would be made at home. > > > > Dawn > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 22 09:33:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9MDXt8E021602 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:33:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9MDXJ4a002515 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 22 Oct 2004 07:33:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9MDXFTd015442; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 07:33:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9MDXDTd015386 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 07:33:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-8.13) id AC131DF50074; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:33:07 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.107 ([209.131.81.107] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 22 Oct 04 13:33:01 -0000 Message-ID: <002b01c4b83c$ae940020$6b5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <022401c4b7c8$4ba65270$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Virginia 1830's Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:40:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/545/Thu Oct 21 07:33:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/545/Thu Oct 21 07:33:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I use this a lot. The patterns are easily made full size since most of them are on the most economical design for using all the fabric available. Squares, rectangles, and such. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Rice" To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 7:47 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Virginia 1830's > Thanks Suzi~! > I actually managed to find a used copy- it's now on the way to my house! ;o) The write up made it > sound very useful for many things, not just clothing. > > Pax, > ::Linda:: > > > On Behalf Of Suzi Clarke > Subject: RE: [h-cost] Virginia 1830's > > If you can get hold of a copy of "The Workwoman's Guide" originally > published in the 1830's in England, but recently reproduced in facsimile > form, you will find many caps, cuffs aprons and so on, with the original > directions. It takes some working through, but is a wonderful resource. > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 22 12:01:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9MG1ilc024312 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 12:01:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9MG114a018173 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:01:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9MG0pTd011413; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:00:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.mc.surewest.net (smtp1.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9MG0mTd011359 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:00:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-807); Fri, 22 Oct 2004 08:57:05 -0700 Received: from unknown (64.30.124.24) by smtp1.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 08:57:05 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20041022085812.00d2a820@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:00:30 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: RE: [h-cost] Virginia 1830's In-Reply-To: <021f01c4b7be$ee279fe0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> References: <41782EBB.90200@reddawn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp1 SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=64.30.124.24 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/545/Thu Oct 21 07:33:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/545/Thu Oct 21 07:33:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 06:40 PM 10/21/2004 -0400, you wrote: >Thanks Dawn~! > >Yep, I've looked at the Kannik's Corner stuff, (as well as lots of other >sites!) and these caps >about the same as the colonial-era caps that the house director has been >told to get away from. All >the docents have the standard-issue mob caps, and I'd really like to get >them into something >different. I think paying attention to small details will go a long way to >differentiate this house >from the other historic sites in the city, which is part of the requirements. > >Pax, >::Linda:: [snip] You might try looking at the Workwoman's Guide; it was originally published in 1838 by "A Lady" in England. There are many cap styles shown. The book is now available in paperback. Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 22 12:22:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9MGMXV5024434 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 12:22:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9MGLq4a020941 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:21:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9MGLlTd027615; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:21:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.199]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9MGLiTd027579 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:21:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Aspasia1@gmail.com) Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 75so324672rnl for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:21:41 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=GaA22gK/hcB32IjMg6LwXSAmfWvEGlKeH8xLIDdKJ+DkaRjyG+RzKpBN+2UpuuOkZ5ArrVym3bvbFdZ63ERn6F3O/t7ix4iyqQswQ5STiqqCK7KDHzeHqgKT8BwzKoECT97nNh6c+5BvTMdri4uW4jpbvC+WojxSoHnjX1v2qZg= Received: by 10.38.22.51 with SMTP id 51mr3738354rnv; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:21:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.67.15 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:21:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4ef943ba04102209212c1ea191@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 12:21:41 -0400 From: Bonnie Booker To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silk floss for Dummies... In-Reply-To: <102020041613.10490.41768E90000C16B2000028FA2200750784010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <102020041613.10490.41768E90000C16B2000028FA2200750784010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/545/Thu Oct 21 07:33:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/545/Thu Oct 21 07:33:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Thread Express? Could you post the URL, please? I'm always looking for another online place for threads! Thank you. > I think it is just threadexpress.com. If not, do a search on the name. -- Aspasia Moonwind _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 22 15:28:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9MJSPiH013127 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 15:28:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9MJR64a010481 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:27:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9MJQmTd063134; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:26:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts16.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9MJQjTd063110 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:26:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dluckham@sympatico.ca) Received: from Main.sympatico.ca ([64.231.206.245]) by tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with ESMTP id <20041022192628.WSUF15612.tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net@Main.sympatico.ca> for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 15:26:28 -0400 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20041022152037.00c63318@pop8.sympatico.ca> X-Sender: b1jerw63@pop8.sympatico.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 15:26:19 -0400 To: h-costume@net.indra.com From: Dawn Luckham Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/545/Thu Oct 21 07:33:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/545/Thu Oct 21 07:33:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 1830's one last thing X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO One last thing and then I'll try to be quiet. :-p This artist is European but his paintings are of "real" people. They're wonderful! Check out this site, all listed paintings marked with a red x are on the 'net to see. http://www.kid.dk/KunstnerVarker.asp?ObjectId=1018 Have fun! Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 22 15:58:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9MJw38R022317 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 15:58:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9MJvG4a013296 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:57:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9MJvATd084392; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:57:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.202]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9MJv7Td084351 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:57:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from athurman@gmail.com) Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 78so308008rnl for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 12:57:05 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=onIsgiTr14s1Qmmww5aYDtv+cfiDuS1Rt6qq8sQ0wQZTGwxGaQtLZLPlxru5cUElVCzndyITB6zUmn6KrG6hMoGlaFp7T/EcPPrN3EBvWVgzH28Hqfgsqh3/e6clQqYjfEpSsceVg4oFcmq1q8sERFVB0MVW8eX29S3e5vSVXEE= Received: by 10.38.79.40 with SMTP id c40mr309821rnb; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 12:57:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.164.21 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 12:57:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7d21ac19041022125757702ae8@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 15:57:04 -0400 From: "A. Thurman" To: Historic Costume List Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/545/Thu Oct 21 07:33:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/545/Thu Oct 21 07:33:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Eleanora of Toledo dress and Medici crypt? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just trying to check my memory here - I remember seeing discussion on an email list (I think it was this one, but am willing to admit error) that suggested that one of the few extant gowns of Eleanora of Toledo was found in her grave. Today I watched the TLC show about the Medici and while there were bones, there were no scraps of clothing, at least none that were displayed for E of T (except some linen in her ossuary - which they didn't say, but IMHO looked new enough to be from a prior dig in the 1940s that was mentioned in the show). The show also mentioned a flood in 1966 that may have destroyed a lot of the grave goods, so here are my questions: Was a dress ever found in E of T's coffin/crypt (perhaps back in the 1940s, before the 1966 flood)? Or is the gown from someplace other than her crypt, or some Eleanor other than that of Toledo? The show mentions no records of the 1940s excavation, but does anyone know through word of mouth or rumor what they might have found or been looking for? Bob Brier, the mummy-ologist in the show, suspects that there may have been mummified flesh that was removed to study the skulls. Allison T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 22 17:19:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9MLJLf7008288 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 17:19:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9MLIh4a023240 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 22 Oct 2004 15:18:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9MLISTd045605; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 15:18:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-118.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9MLIMTd045445 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 15:18:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by mail.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEAC3425DB for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 16:47:49 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <417978EA.2040905@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 16:17:30 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Eleanora of Toledo dress and Medici crypt? References: <7d21ac19041022125757702ae8@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <7d21ac19041022125757702ae8@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/545/Thu Oct 21 07:33:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/545/Thu Oct 21 07:33:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A. Thurman wrote: > Was a dress ever found in E of T's coffin/crypt (perhaps back in the > 1940s, before the 1966 flood)? Or is the gown from someplace other > than her crypt, or some Eleanor other than that of Toledo? The tomb was opened in 1857, according to Arnold in 'Patterns of Fashion 1560-1620', and there are photos of the remains of the dress and diagrams reconstructing it within that book. > > The show mentions no records of the 1940s excavation, but does anyone > know through word of mouth or rumor what they might have found or been > looking for? Bob Brier, the mummy-ologist in the show, suspects that > there may have been mummified flesh that was removed to study the > skulls. I believe they said in the show that the skulls were measured by anthropologists who were studying brain capacity in a search for 'the Medici Genius', the secret to generations political and economic success within the family. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 22 18:32:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9MMWBV6009548 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 18:32:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9MMVT4a007102 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 22 Oct 2004 16:31:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9MMVKTd002998; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 16:31:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-01-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (ms-smtp-01-smtplb.ohiordc.rr.com [65.24.5.135]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9MMVHTd002963 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 16:31:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ailith@neo.rr.com) Received: from duncan (dhcp024-209-056-164.neo.rr.com [24.209.56.164]) by ms-smtp-01-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id i9MMVClw029271 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 18:31:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002601c4b886$c97457b0$1902a8c0@duncan> From: "ailith" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.0.14.2.20041022221726.01457450@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Eleanora of Toledo dress and Medici crypt? Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 18:30:50 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/545/Thu Oct 21 07:33:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/545/Thu Oct 21 07:33:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In the oh-so-nifty Italian book that is living with me, there are color photos of what's left of Eleonora's burial gown (white satin originally). I'm on my way out of town right now; I'll scan it when I get home Sunday. Jerusha--would you be able to host it? kate ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzi Clarke" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 5:27 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Eleanora of Toledo dress and Medici crypt? > At 15:57 22/10/2004 -0400, you wrote: > >Just trying to check my memory here - > > > >I remember seeing discussion on an email list (I think it was this > >one, but am willing to admit error) that suggested that one of the few > >extant gowns of Eleanora of Toledo was found in her grave. > > > >Today I watched the TLC show about the Medici and while there were > >bones, there were no scraps of clothing, at least none that were > >displayed for E of T (except some linen in her ossuary - which they > >didn't say, but IMHO looked new enough to be from a prior dig in the > >1940s that was mentioned in the show). > > > >The show also mentioned a flood in 1966 that may have destroyed a lot > >of the grave goods, so here are my questions: > > > >Was a dress ever found in E of T's coffin/crypt (perhaps back in the > >1940s, before the 1966 flood)? Or is the gown from someplace other > >than her crypt, or some Eleanor other than that of Toledo? > > > "Patterns of Fashion 1560-1660 Janet Arnold," published by MacMillan, 1985 > > "A satin gown and velvet bodice or ' bodies' worn by Eleanor of Toledo, > wife of Cosimo de Medici, who died of malaria in 1562, aged forty. She was > buried in these clothes in the Sagrestia Vecchia of San Lorenzo in > Florence. In 1791 all the Medici coffins, except those in the marble tombs, > were removed ,,,,,,snip........Only fragments now remain......snip.....the > stockings and garters have survived." > > There is, of course a pattern for this garment on Janet's book, together > with patterns of the other grave clothes so far examined. > > Janet was working with Dr. Mary Westerman Bulgarella of the Pitti Palace to > make patterns of the fragments, which were actually just odd bits. I have > seen her slides, and how she made sense of them I do not know! The male > clothes were actually easier, as there was a great deal of the cloak for > example, from what I remember. I believe Dr. Bulgarella is still working on > the fragments - at least she was when I spoke to her at Janet's memorial > service. > > Hope that helps. > > Suzi > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 22 18:45:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9MMjLOt009764 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 18:45:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9MLRn4a024611 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 22 Oct 2004 15:27:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9MLRhTd053329; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 15:27:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9MLReTd053215 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 15:27:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Oct 2004 21:27:34 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041022221726.01457450@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 22:27:38 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Eleanora of Toledo dress and Medici crypt? In-Reply-To: <7d21ac19041022125757702ae8@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/545/Thu Oct 21 07:33:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/545/Thu Oct 21 07:33:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 15:57 22/10/2004 -0400, you wrote: >Just trying to check my memory here - > >I remember seeing discussion on an email list (I think it was this >one, but am willing to admit error) that suggested that one of the few >extant gowns of Eleanora of Toledo was found in her grave. > >Today I watched the TLC show about the Medici and while there were >bones, there were no scraps of clothing, at least none that were >displayed for E of T (except some linen in her ossuary - which they >didn't say, but IMHO looked new enough to be from a prior dig in the >1940s that was mentioned in the show). > >The show also mentioned a flood in 1966 that may have destroyed a lot >of the grave goods, so here are my questions: > >Was a dress ever found in E of T's coffin/crypt (perhaps back in the >1940s, before the 1966 flood)? Or is the gown from someplace other >than her crypt, or some Eleanor other than that of Toledo? "Patterns of Fashion 1560-1660 Janet Arnold," published by MacMillan, 1985 "A satin gown and velvet bodice or ' bodies' worn by Eleanor of Toledo, wife of Cosimo de Medici, who died of malaria in 1562, aged forty. She was buried in these clothes in the Sagrestia Vecchia of San Lorenzo in Florence. In 1791 all the Medici coffins, except those in the marble tombs, were removed ,,,,,,snip........Only fragments now remain......snip.....the stockings and garters have survived." There is, of course a pattern for this garment on Janet's book, together with patterns of the other grave clothes so far examined. Janet was working with Dr. Mary Westerman Bulgarella of the Pitti Palace to make patterns of the fragments, which were actually just odd bits. I have seen her slides, and how she made sense of them I do not know! The male clothes were actually easier, as there was a great deal of the cloak for example, from what I remember. I believe Dr. Bulgarella is still working on the fragments - at least she was when I spoke to her at Janet's memorial service. Hope that helps. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 22 19:19:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9MNJsKp010387 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 19:19:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9MNJP4a014023 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 22 Oct 2004 17:19:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9MNJKTd034856; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 17:19:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com (adsl-065-013-105-239.sip.tys.bellsouth.net [65.13.105.239]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9MNJHTd034816 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 17:19:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i9MNeYBf044113 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 19:40:34 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: (from sfarmer@localhost) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3/Submit) id i9MNeYNC044112 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 19:40:34 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 19:40:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Farmer Message-Id: <200410222340.i9MNeYNC044112@sabre.goldsword.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Eleanora of Toledo dress and Medici crypt? In-Reply-To: <002601c4b886$c97457b0$1902a8c0@duncan> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/545/Thu Oct 21 07:33:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/545/Thu Oct 21 07:33:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > In the oh-so-nifty Italian book that is living with me, there are > color photos of what's left of Eleonora's burial gown (white satin > originally). I'm on my way out of town right now; I'll scan it when I > get home Sunday. > > Jerusha--would you be able to host it? Sure thing! Jerusha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 22 19:38:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9MNctWx010709 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 19:38:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9MNcI4a015323 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 22 Oct 2004 17:38:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9MNc9Td044674; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 17:38:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9MNc6Td044560 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 17:38:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fa8.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.168]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 8D9F747FE0C for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 01:37:49 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001701c4b890$2b630e90$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 01:38:01 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/545/Thu Oct 21 07:33:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/545/Thu Oct 21 07:33:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] silk floss for dummies X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here is Threadexpress: http://threadexpress.com/products.asp?zs=vend&categoryIndex=25&menuitem=&zbot=1 Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 22 19:40:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9MNeote010736 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 19:40:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9MNeI4a015480 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 22 Oct 2004 17:40:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9MNeITd045800; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 17:40:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9MNeGTd045770 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 17:40:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fa8.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.168]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 6B369262826 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 01:40:15 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <002001c4b890$82728080$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20041021.075826.-329125.2.Seamstrix@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Dress Diary Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 01:40:12 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/545/Thu Oct 21 07:33:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/545/Thu Oct 21 07:33:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Karen. I think your projekt looks very fine. I love the sleaves you have made so far, and all that fabric matching you have done it so beautifully! will sertanly come back to see more! Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 2:58 PM Subject: [h-cost] New Dress Diary > If any of you are interested, I've begun another Elizabethan dress diary. > You can go to: > > http://members.tripod.com/seamstrix/ > > and click on 'QE2' to see what I have up so far. > > > > > Karen > > ________________________________________________________________ > Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. > Now includes pop-up blocker! > Only $14.95/ month - visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 23 00:03:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9N43ZXR014659 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 00:03:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9N42p4a002648 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 22 Oct 2004 22:02:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9N42gTd068205; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 22:02:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9N42cTd068115 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 22:02:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.147.124]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i9N42HrO018973 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 14:02:24 +1000 Message-ID: <000301c4b8b4$f94ccac0$7c93d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200410211502.i9LF2a21036206@sabre.goldsword.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] image of Jane Grey? Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 21:44:06 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/547/Fri Oct 22 01:37:07 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/547/Fri Oct 22 01:37:07 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Hello all > > > > Has anyone ever seen the full info, or a color version of this image? > > http://photos.ladybrooke.com/sca/images/velvettudorgown/janegrey.jpg > > > > Parts of it kinda looks like the other image once thought to be Jane Grey > > http://www.tudor-portraits.com/CatherineParr.jpg > > > > But I've never seen this image before, and something about it looks... off > > somehow. Does anyone have more info? Kimiko, I know the image and it feels kinda wrong to me too, but I have a feeling it's because of the poor quality reproduction that makes it look kinda like that 'soft focus' or low lighting effects you sometimes find in Victorian romantic artworks. > > Look at the fabric. that's very similar to the fabric used in the Eleanor > of Toledo painting. There's an image floating around somewhere of one of > the french queens wearing a dress very similar to that one. I think > "glittersweet" has a color image of that one. > > Jerusha Jerusha, I know this picture too I've got it saved on my hard drive but I don't remember where I picked it up from it's a picture of Elizabeth of Austria from 1575, not the more famous portrait that stops above her waist but a full length picture. It's really interesting to see how she has got the jewelled partlet and ruff you usually see in the Second half of the century but her gown is definitely in the style that you typically see in the first half of the century with big fur turnback sleeves. I'll do a google image search when I've got time to see if I can find it again. Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole in OR in Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra, Australia ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 23 00:38:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9N4cHtd015232 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 00:38:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9N4bj4a004031 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 22 Oct 2004 22:37:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9N4bfTd081500; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 22:37:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065d19.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065d19.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.253]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9N4beTd081491 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 22:37:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hardcorps@earthlink.net) Received: from grover.psp.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.78.249]) by pop-a065d19.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CLDet-0001pv-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 21:37:39 -0700 Message-ID: <4684468.1098506259774.JavaMail.root@grover.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 21:37:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Frank and Tracy Thallas To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] image of Jane Grey? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/547/Fri Oct 22 01:37:07 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/547/Fri Oct 22 01:37:07 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -----Original Message----- From: Elizabeth Walpole Sent: Oct 22, 2004 4:44 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] image of Jane Grey? > > Hello all > > > > Has anyone ever seen the full info, or a color version of this image? > > http://photos.ladybrooke.com/sca/images/velvettudorgown/janegrey.jpg > > > > Parts of it kinda looks like the other image once thought to be Jane Grey > > http://www.tudor-portraits.com/CatherineParr.jpg > > > > But I've never seen this image before, and something about it looks... off > > somehow. Does anyone have more info? Look at: http://www.marileecody.com/gloriana/princesselizabethscrots.jpg or if that doesn't work go to http://englishhistory.net/tudor/monarchs/eliz1.html and scroll down to the Scrots portrait of the young Elizabeth - if you can get both images on the screen, they look like two versions of the same coloring book page. Look at the hands. Someone has taken Elizabeth's book away, but not changed the attitude of her fingers... Liadain _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 23 03:45:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9N7jJSx019496 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 03:45:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9N7ij4a014989 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 23 Oct 2004 01:44:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9N7iYTd056027; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 01:44:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9N7iVTd055948 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 01:44:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.147.18]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i9N7iHxi027835 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 17:44:18 +1000 Message-ID: <002b01c4b8d3$f83d6580$1293d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200410211502.i9LF2a21036206@sabre.goldsword.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] image of Jane Grey? Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 17:43:18 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/547/Fri Oct 22 01:37:07 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/547/Fri Oct 22 01:37:07 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Look at the fabric. that's very similar to the fabric used in the Eleanor > of Toledo painting. There's an image floating around somewhere of one of > the french queens wearing a dress very similar to that one. I think > "glittersweet" has a color image of that one. > > Jerusha It used to be at http://glittersweet.com/1575elizabethofaustria.jpg but it's disappeared for the moment. if you really want it you could email Michaela (the site owner) to find out if she still has it otherwise I could upload the copy I saved onto my website. Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole in OR in Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra, Australia ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 23 05:45:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9N9jh7p019223 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 05:45:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9N9jB4a001505 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 23 Oct 2004 03:45:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9N9iuTd099872; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 03:44:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9N9ijTd099775 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 03:44:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fa8.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.168]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id DE883262879 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 11:44:39 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000601c4b8e4$f11a6670$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 11:44:50 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/547/Fri Oct 22 01:37:07 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/547/Fri Oct 22 01:37:07 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] chenille stumpwork X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I have almost made the neckband with the stumpwork. All the flowers is mounted to the base of it, but it is not sewed yeat. http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/chenillestumpwork.htm Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 23 05:58:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9N9wbHg019292 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 05:58:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9N9w84a002264 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 23 Oct 2004 03:58:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9N9w5Td005395; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 03:58:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grunt10.ihug.co.nz (grunt10.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.52]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9N9w2Td005341 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 03:58:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from p33-max8.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.204.97] by grunt10.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CLIel-00044o-00; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 22:57:52 +1300 Message-ID: <003401c4b8e6$be087270$61ccadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200410211502.i9LF2a21036206@sabre.goldsword.com> <002b01c4b8d3$f83d6580$1293d6cb@ewalpole> Subject: Re: [h-cost] image of Jane Grey? Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 22:57:42 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/547/Fri Oct 22 01:37:07 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/547/Fri Oct 22 01:37:07 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > It used to be at http://glittersweet.com/1575elizabethofaustria.jpg but it's > disappeared for the moment. if you really want it you could email Michaela > (the site owner) to find out if she still has it otherwise I could upload > the copy I saved onto my website. > Elizabeth I took it down while orgainising my pages:) We discussed it on the list a while ago. And I've been meaning to put up a page to explain each part of her costume and why it may well be an actual dress, or at least recognised at the time as a real dress and not just a hodgepodge of styles thsat would have made her appear in antiquated dress. I'll upload it again right now if it is of interest, especially as I won't get around to the page until after next weekend due to Crown Tourney here in Auckland. She's just being re-uploaded. Done. Same link as above in the meantime. I wouldn't compare her to the Jane portrait though, I think it is a brocaded velvet as well, but not of the same type (the contrast of the white black and gold on all the portraits and extant remnants of this fabric seems to suggest to me a single maker? Or copies by other weavers?) I don't know if I got the full sized image to anyone, but I have a 1600X whatever version of the painting as well that I can email if anyone wants to pull out further detail. I think I wiped the close up images to make room for others portraits. michaela de bruce http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 23 07:02:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9NB2pd1019621 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 07:02:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9NB2D4a006015 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 23 Oct 2004 05:02:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9NB1vTd035501; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 05:02:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9NB1pTd035397 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 05:01:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gia_gavino@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.112 ([204.127.197.112]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <2004102311014601500n1f84e>; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 11:01:46 +0000 Received: from [24.16.244.181] by 204.127.197.112; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 11:01:46 +0000 From: gia_gavino@comcast.net (Elena O'Tighearnaigh) To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] chenille stumpwork Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 11:01:46 +0000 Message-Id: <102320041101.18745.417A3A19000DE387000049392200750744010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Sep 14 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: Z2lhX2dhdmlub0Bjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/547/Fri Oct 22 01:37:07 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/547/Fri Oct 22 01:37:07 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh goodness! How *beautiful!!!!* Thank you for sharing! You are certainly inspiring me to try some stumpwork. Happy stitches! -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > Hi, > I have almost made the neckband with the stumpwork. All the flowers is > mounted to the base of it, but it is not sewed yeat. > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/chenillestumpwork.htm > > > Bjarne > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 23 09:06:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9ND6rZE020035 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 09:06:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9ND6D4a013241 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 23 Oct 2004 07:06:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9ND64Td087498; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 07:06:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9ND61Td087425 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 07:06:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m2.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABAZWX2HA3STC5S for (sender ); Sat, 23 Oct 2004 06:05:11 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCqFQzfdFpgvvIm2QYZZrSJz2RIWb4BgeSg== Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KAMMA2SV; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 06:05:03 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 07:35:59 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] chenille stumpwork Message-ID: <20041023.073600.-1031473.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-6,8-30 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-ContentStamp: 12:6:1696015645 X-MAIL-INFO: 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 69f1618cbd006d4c29008d3ce18d413ca53c695dc56c8c6ceca1197945e57d00796d1975fcbd6d2ca95c28ddd15c95dc4895d9dc98b9f859b5f871c9c86891b591c5c56899283d95a8cd5c7c5dc88c78558cccec25e5d555d54545157d196519452d00452dbd292dbd2915b5891c09918c498c9c78e5accc8cd50135cdb9cd759dbc759dad289dad391895f5a9dd38a9d9d9dd983898983dedcda5adf168b5914d159189894dc515c5 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/547/Fri Oct 22 01:37:07 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/547/Fri Oct 22 01:37:07 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Absolutely outstanding work, Bjarne! It's so nice to see the less stereotypical aspects of the period being done, and done so well! This will be stunning! Karen On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 11:44:50 +0200 "Bjarne og Leif Drews" writes: > Hi, > I have almost made the neckband with the stumpwork. All the flowers > is > mounted to the base of it, but it is not sewed yeat. > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/chenillestumpwork.htm > > > Bjarne > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/ month - visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 23 09:34:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9NDY7uD020270 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 09:34:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9NDXZ4a015112 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 23 Oct 2004 07:33:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9NDXTTd000453; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 07:33:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9NDXATd000251 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 07:33:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from betsy@softwareinnovation.com) Received: from theforce ([64.0.176.13]) by softwareinnovation.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Sat, 23 Oct 2004 08:31:48 -0500 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] chenille stumpwork Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 08:33:04 -0500 Message-ID: <002c01c4b904$d3856900$0db00040@softwareinnovation.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 In-Reply-To: <000601c4b8e4$f11a6670$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Importance: Normal X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Oct 2004 13:31:49.0150 (UTC) FILETIME=[A62273E0:01C4B904] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/547/Fri Oct 22 01:37:07 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/547/Fri Oct 22 01:37:07 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think this has gone beyond stumpwork (as I have known it) and into fabric sculpture!! Thank you very much for the inspiring things you show to us. Betsy -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 4:45 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] chenille stumpwork Hi, I have almost made the neckband with the stumpwork. All the flowers is mounted to the base of it, but it is not sewed yeat. http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/chenillestumpwork.htm Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 23 11:21:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9NFLq74020944 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 11:21:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9NFKf4a022867 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 23 Oct 2004 09:20:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9NFKSTd049999; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 09:20:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta9.adelphia.net (mta9.adelphia.net [68.168.78.199]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9NFKQTd049918 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 09:20:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from randl@adelphia.net) Received: from adelphia.net ([69.169.181.2]) by mta9.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.02 201-2131-111-104-20040324) with ESMTP id <20041023152020.CXDY2497.mta9.adelphia.net@adelphia.net> for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 11:20:20 -0400 Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 11:20:21 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] silk floss for dummies Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: randl@adelphia.net To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <200410231306.i9ND6pTe087806@net.indra.com> Message-Id: <0DC40F29-2507-11D9-8A52-000393D2F36E@adelphia.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/547/Fri Oct 22 01:37:07 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/547/Fri Oct 22 01:37:07 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is a Very Bad Place. I love it!!! I decided on the Eterna stranded silk: http://www.threadexpress.com/ products.asp?zs=vend&categoryIndex=25&menuitem=&zbot=1 I'm planning a guard on a pale green silk taffeta petticoat using a late 16th c. extant dress border as my model. If you have a copy of the V&A textile collection publication "Embriodery in Britain from 1200-1750", it's on pg 69. I'll also pick up a couple of skeins of Kreinik Mori in a dark red for blackwork on a camicia. http://www.threadexpress.com/ products.asp?zs=vend&categoryIndex=141&menuitem=0&zbot=1 Thank you all so much for helping me into yet another textile addiction:) Laurie On Saturday, October 23, 2004, at 09:06 AM, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: > Here is Threadexpress: > http://threadexpress.com/ > products.asp?zs=vend&categoryIndex=25&menuitem=&zbot=1 > > Bjarne > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 23 11:24:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9NFOBNB020962 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 11:24:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9NFNa4a023872 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 23 Oct 2004 09:23:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9NFNaTd051409; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 09:23:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.201]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9NFNXTd051339 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 09:23:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Aspasia1@gmail.com) Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 73so293354rnk for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 08:23:29 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=TVky1ZwNzNEGSCscWh4yQuwcSFSN9rm2EVhD2i2PT4kOpSrphVigB2drxr9lqIi6ng+2nRY9PDhFYVMKU40L1/mxcBFCe8TzI9vnJRz7AhVFwU/SY546yryChfCeBJRn4mmZcDlfD7MV9NnhCVEbgLiXGlElu/3noIBXhG6SDsU= Received: by 10.38.59.27 with SMTP id h27mr177911rna; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 08:23:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.67.15 with HTTP; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 08:23:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4ef943ba04102308237b22c999@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 11:23:29 -0400 From: Bonnie Booker To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Dress Diary In-Reply-To: <002001c4b890$82728080$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20041021.075826.-329125.2.Seamstrix@juno.com> <002001c4b890$82728080$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/547/Fri Oct 22 01:37:07 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/547/Fri Oct 22 01:37:07 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > If any of you are interested, I've begun another Elizabethan dress diary. > > You can go to: http://members.tripod.com/seamstrix/ > > and click on 'QE2' to see what I have up so far. > > Beautiful! You might want to take a look at preciousplunder.com for crowns. They also do custome orders. -- Aspasia Moonwind _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 23 11:44:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9NFifJw021048 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 11:44:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9NFi34a025538 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 23 Oct 2004 09:44:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9NFhwTd060921; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 09:44:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web51405.mail.yahoo.com (web51405.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.184]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9NFhtTd060862 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 09:43:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ivycircle@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20041023154349.65492.qmail@web51405.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.240.66.215] by web51405.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 08:43:49 PDT Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 08:43:49 -0700 (PDT) From: ~Angelique To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200409101252.i8ACqKBj072279@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/547/Fri Oct 22 01:37:07 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/547/Fri Oct 22 01:37:07 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Faire? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Many of you have talked about how much you enjoy playing in faires (Renn, Dickens etc) How do you become members? I'd love to check it out. I am located in the southwest corner of AZ (4mi from CA :-) Info pretty please?? Angelique --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 23 12:35:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9NGZs2l021452 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 12:35:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9NGZH4a000813 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 23 Oct 2004 10:35:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9NGZ6Td085700; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 10:35:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.193]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9NGZ4Td085676 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 10:35:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from athurman@gmail.com) Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 78so425431rnl for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 09:35:03 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=Wu9N8AiC4d9dTRYJWEtrzlXBxYD5CNRx7jUbBD+ZhHQvWYzLTDScvJkh3vYqvIK9GRTq3ZciFp3Qsw605pNtR/WaSnO0EdQxeVW2vVQZkM38XsuyqYbVJl2lwQ7lWT1AzOPZengnMspIqgs7Cn6BVgdQidQm4YPKTKW4CeG1cdE= Received: by 10.38.15.13 with SMTP id 13mr286797rno; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 09:35:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.164.21 with HTTP; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 09:35:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7d21ac19041023093535088003@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 12:35:02 -0400 From: "A. Thurman" To: Historic Costume List Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/547/Fri Oct 22 01:37:07 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/547/Fri Oct 22 01:37:07 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Eleanora of Toledo's grave dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'd love to see this when you get back in town; I'd also love to know the name of this "nifty Italian book"! I need to go back through my copy of Patterns of Fashion - KNEW I should have checked my own bookcase first! :P Allison T. Message: 6 Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 19:40:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Farmer Subject: Re: [h-cost] Eleanora of Toledo dress and Medici crypt? To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: <200410222340.i9MNeYNC044112@sabre.goldsword.com> > > In the oh-so-nifty Italian book that is living with me, there are > color photos of what's left of Eleonora's burial gown (white satin > originally). I'm on my way out of town right now; I'll scan it when I > get home Sunday. > > Jerusha--would you be able to host it? Sure thing! Jerusha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 23 17:55:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9NLtt4a023954 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 17:55:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9NLtB4a024494 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 23 Oct 2004 15:55:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9NLt0Td038305; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 15:55:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9NLstTe038234 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 15:54:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i9NM2glI008178 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 18:02:42 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] chenille stumpwork Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 18:08:26 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <000601c4b8e4$f11a6670$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <000601c4b8e4$f11a6670$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200410231808.26015.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/547/Fri Oct 22 01:37:07 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/547/Fri Oct 22 01:37:07 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Saturday 23 October 2004 5:44 am, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi, > I have almost made the neckband with the stumpwork. All the flowers is > mounted to the base of it, but it is not sewed yeat. > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/chenillestumpwork.htm Lovely, as always. I didn't realize that chenille stumpwork was used in the 18th century. -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 23 18:04:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9NM4kOg024049 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 18:04:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9NM4F4a025494 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 23 Oct 2004 16:04:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9NM47Td043029; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 16:04:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9NM45Td042894 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 16:04:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fa8.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.168]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 15C4547FE05 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 2004 00:03:49 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001001c4b94c$34906d70$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000601c4b8e4$f11a6670$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <200410231808.26015.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] chenille stumpwork Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 00:04:02 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/547/Fri Oct 22 01:37:07 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/547/Fri Oct 22 01:37:07 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Lovely, as always. I didn't realize that chenille stumpwork was used in the > 18th century. Dear Cathy. In the Kyoto Costume book, the thick one called Fashion, on page 69 there is a dress wich has a neckband embellished with buid up chenille flowers. The same thing on the rutched ornaments on the skirts. I dont know if it is stumpwork made, but it is the only way i could imagine it done with chenille thread. One thing is sure, it is dimensional flowers. Back in 18th century there was a huge industry with artificially made silk flowers. Obviously they did the same with chenille. I cant get any silk chenille artificially flowers today, so i have to make them myself somehow. Stumpwork is a way to do it. Bjarne > > -- > Cathy Raymond > > "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue > that counts."--Winston Churchill > _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 23 18:07:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9NM7dOh024075 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 18:07:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9NM7B4a025610 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 23 Oct 2004 16:07:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9NM79Td044358; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 16:07:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9NM77Td044328 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 16:07:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fa8.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.168]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 16E405EE045 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 2004 00:07:03 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001701c4b94c$a97dbf20$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 00:07:18 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/547/Fri Oct 22 01:37:07 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/547/Fri Oct 22 01:37:07 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] silk ribbbon embroidery X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. Just found on lacma's website: Embroidered silk ribbon on some stomachers from 18th century. Go and se their nice website, it is a goldmine of fine prints and costumes/accesories: http://collectionsonline.lacma.org/mwebcgi/mweb.exe They have uploaded a lot of fine late 17th century fashion prints. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 23 23:59:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9O3xggD026405 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 23:59:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9O3x84a019853 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 23 Oct 2004 21:59:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9O3wqTd004600; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 21:58:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9O3wjTe004552 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 21:58:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i9O46UlC014068 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 2004 00:06:31 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] chenille stumpwork Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 00:12:13 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <000601c4b8e4$f11a6670$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <200410231808.26015.cathy@thyrsus.com> <001001c4b94c$34906d70$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <001001c4b94c$34906d70$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200410240012.13282.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/547/Fri Oct 22 01:37:07 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/547/Fri Oct 22 01:37:07 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Saturday 23 October 2004 6:04 pm, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > Lovely, as always. I didn't realize that chenille stumpwork was used in > > the > > > 18th century. > > Dear Cathy. > In the Kyoto Costume book, the thick one called Fashion, on page 69 there > is a dress wich has a neckband embellished with buid up chenille flowers. > The same thing on the rutched ornaments on the skirts. I dont know if it is > stumpwork made, but it is the only way i could imagine it done with > chenille thread. > One thing is sure, it is dimensional flowers. Ah. I don't have and have not seen the Kyoto Costume book, but if I ever get my hands on it I'll look for the dress you've mentioned. Thank you. > Back in 18th century there was a huge industry with artificially made silk > flowers. Obviously they did the same with chenille. > I cant get any silk chenille artificially flowers today, so i have to make > them myself somehow. Stumpwork is a way to do it. Indeed it is, and you do so brilliantly! Thanks for the information. -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 24 00:02:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9O425QS026425 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 2004 00:02:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9O41U4a020020 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 23 Oct 2004 22:01:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9O41STd005807; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 22:01:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9O41QTd005733 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 22:01:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Chindora@aol.com) Received: from Chindora@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.13f.4559d66 (3964) for ; Sun, 24 Oct 2004 00:01:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Chindora@aol.com Message-ID: <13f.4559d66.2eac830f@aol.com> Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 00:01:19 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5000 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/547/Fri Oct 22 01:37:07 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/547/Fri Oct 22 01:37:07 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 1530's Florentine Sleeve Question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings :) I have a question for the group. I would like to make a Florentine style gown, circa 1530, with the large sleeves like the ones seen in the Bronzino portraits of the period, particularly the double pouf sleeves of the green velvet gown that we have been discussing somewhat here. I have had this style gown in my sights for a while, and had planned a similar gown out of some green velvet that I have been keeping until I had time to work with it. My problem is that I *thought* I had enough fabric, but when I pulled it out of the cupboard to start planning, I measured and realized that I was three yards short. Most likely I used the missing yardage in a project several years ago and just forgot. Pooh. Rather than just give up on the idea, I would like to perhaps use a coordinating fabric for the sleeves, perhaps say black velvet with strips of the green velvet sewn down the middle, and conversely having strips of the black sewn around the bodice opening and as skirt guards. I also have a lovely piece of black brocade with a very discreet diamond woven design that would make nice sleeves as well. I could very easily see pearls sewn on those intersections, but again, I shy away from just doing things because I find them pretty and would feel more comfortable knowing it is authentic in styling. I am am kind of leery of just doing something because I can, and would rather be able to feel comfortable that it was something that not only could have been done but is documentable as an appropriate sleeve treatment. I can document using a different fabric for sleeves in earlier and later periods, but so far have seen nothing to indicate that this would be an acceptable practice in Florence during this time. I can also document beading on partlets, but have not seen any of these poofy sleeves with beading, only strips of fabric for trim or perhaps ribbon. If anyone can help me out either with portrait documentation or written documentation, I would greatly appreciate it. It is tempting to just plunge ahead and say that it *could* have been done, and I may well wind up doing that, but I would by far rather try to be good and be as authentic as possible. I have to admit that I know much more about what was going on in England during this time period, and I am trying hard not to cross over with my styles. Thanks in advance :) Kimberley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 24 04:07:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9O87E0N027942 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 2004 04:07:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9O86f4a003061 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Oct 2004 02:06:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9O86QTd005487; Sun, 24 Oct 2004 02:06:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (e-smtp.socket.net [216.106.88.132]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9O863Td005357 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 2004 02:06:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC0C42C509 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 2004 03:06:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [64.85.214.255]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id C3F96C401 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 2004 03:06:01 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] image of Jane Grey? Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 03:06:18 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <4684468.1098506259774.JavaMail.root@grover.psp.pas.earthlink.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/547/Fri Oct 22 01:37:07 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/547/Fri Oct 22 01:37:07 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Comparing the pictures, I find that they are similar but not " two versions of a coloring page" which to me would mean that they are copies of each other with different colors. The position of the fingers and hands are different. The bodies are facing different directions on the PE and CP portraits. De -----Original Message----- > > Has anyone ever seen the full info, or a color version of this image? > > http://photos.ladybrooke.com/sca/images/velvettudorgown/janegrey.jpg > > > > Parts of it kinda looks like the other image once thought to be Jane Grey > > http://www.tudor-portraits.com/CatherineParr.jpg > > > > But I've never seen this image before, and something about it looks... off > > somehow. Does anyone have more info? Look at: http://www.marileecody.com/gloriana/princesselizabethscrots.jpg or if that doesn't work go to http://englishhistory.net/tudor/monarchs/eliz1.html and scroll down to the Scrots portrait of the young Elizabeth - if you can get both images on the screen, they look like two versions of the same coloring book page. Look at the hands. Someone has taken Elizabeth's book away, but not changed the attitude of her fingers... Liadain __________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 24 13:24:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9OHO4tP012902 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 2004 13:24:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9OHNU4a015143 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Oct 2004 11:23:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9OHNFTd046430; Sun, 24 Oct 2004 11:23:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065d23.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065d23.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.254]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9OHNCTd046387 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 2004 11:23:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hardcorps@earthlink.net) Received: from bert.psp.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.78.217]) by pop-a065d23.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CLm5G-00026A-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 24 Oct 2004 10:23:10 -0700 Message-ID: <14965039.1098638590363.JavaMail.root@bert.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 11:23:10 -0600 (GMT-06:00) From: Frank and Tracy Thallas To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] image of Jane Grey? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/547/Fri Oct 22 01:37:07 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/547/Fri Oct 22 01:37:07 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Okay, took me a minute - You're right, the Catherine Parr pic is similar but obviously different. I didn't make myself clear - I was comparing http://photos.ladybrooke.com/sca/images/velvettudorgown/janegrey.jpg to http://www.marileecody.com/gloriana/princesselizabethscrots.jpg as being very very similar. BTW, does anyone know to whom the "Jane Grey" pic is attributed, or where it is? Liadain -----Original Message----- From: otsisto Sent: Oct 24, 2004 2:06 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] image of Jane Grey? Comparing the pictures, I find that they are similar but not " two versions of a coloring page" which to me would mean that they are copies of each other with different colors. The position of the fingers and hands are different. The bodies are facing different directions on the PE and CP portraits. De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 24 15:38:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9OJchwH014286 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 2004 15:38:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9OJc54a024378 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Oct 2004 13:38:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9OJc0Td014557; Sun, 24 Oct 2004 13:38:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9OJbxTd014543 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 2004 13:37:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cahuff@mindspring.com) Received: from user-38lci5b.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.72.171] helo=[10.0.1.2]) by barry.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CLoBi-00077U-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 24 Oct 2004 15:37:59 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200410241800.i9OI0XTf065117@net.indra.com> References: <200410241800.i9OI0XTf065117@net.indra.com> Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 15:37:50 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: fastusminimus Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Bjarne's work X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:00 PM -0600 10/24/04, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: >On Saturday 23 October 2004 5:44 am, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > Hi, >> I have almost made the neckband with the stumpwork. All the flowers is >> mounted to the base of it, but it is not sewed yeat. > > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/chenillestumpwork.htm Oh how wonderful!! Makes me wish I could be an upper crust type---alas neither my own style nor where I play in the 18th cent really allows it :-P But I can really really admire your loverly work!!!! Ta Carol, just one of the common herd! Hey someone has to get all the work done ;-) -- Creative Clutter is Better Than Idle Neatness! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 24 18:17:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9OMHp9H015739 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 2004 18:17:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9OMHC4a009338 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Oct 2004 16:17:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9OMGvTd005529; Sun, 24 Oct 2004 16:16:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-01-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (ms-smtp-01-smtplb.ohiordc.rr.com [65.24.5.135]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9OMGsTd005496 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 2004 16:16:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ailith@neo.rr.com) Received: from duncan (dhcp024-209-056-164.neo.rr.com [24.209.56.164]) by ms-smtp-01-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id i9OMGmlw000438 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 2004 18:16:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <025201c4ba17$17b5c8a0$1902a8c0@duncan> From: "ailith" To: "Historical Costume" References: <7d21ac19041023093535088003@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 18:16:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Eleanora of Toledo's grave dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The book is "Moda alla coret dei Medici" (main title), "gli abiti restaurati di Cosimo, Eleonora e dom Garzia" (secondary title). It was apparently published in 1993 as an exhibition book (I'm guessing maybe in Italy??). The ISBN is 88-7038-238-9. It's 107 pages (including appendices, etc.) with an approximately 30 page long section by Janet Arnold in English. The other nifty cool thing about the book is that all of the photos in it (including those in the Italian language sections) have a secondary caption in English. I really wish I could find my own copy of this book! kate ----- Original Message ----- From: "A. Thurman" To: "Historic Costume List" Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 12:35 PM Subject: [h-cost] Eleanora of Toledo's grave dress > I'd love to see this when you get back in town; I'd also love to know > the name of this "nifty Italian book"! > > I need to go back through my copy of Patterns of Fashion - KNEW I > should have checked my own bookcase first! :P > > Allison T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 24 20:21:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9P0LLAE016934 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 2004 20:21:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9P0KM4a017704 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Oct 2004 18:20:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9P0KBTd060417; Sun, 24 Oct 2004 18:20:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav20.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.124]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9P0K8Td060360 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 2004 18:20:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 24 Oct 2004 17:20:01 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by BAY9-DAV20.phx.gbl with DAV; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 00:19:25 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <7d21ac19041023093535088003@mail.gmail.com> <025201c4ba17$17b5c8a0$1902a8c0@duncan> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Eleanora of Toledo's grave dress Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 20:19:58 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Oct 2004 00:20:01.0963 (UTC) FILETIME=[5E787FB0:01C4BA28] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > The book is "Moda alla coret dei Medici" (main title), "gli abiti > restaurati di Cosimo, Eleonora e dom Garzia" (secondary title). Is this the book that has a color picture of the portrait of Laudomia de'Medici? I know there's one somewhere, but I've never been able to get a reference for it. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 24 21:51:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9P1pmR7017475 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 2004 21:51:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9P1pD4a024688 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Oct 2004 19:51:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9P1p1Td002303; Sun, 24 Oct 2004 19:51:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.54]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9P1oxTd002289 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 2004 19:50:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hardcorps@earthlink.net) Received: from kermit.psp.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.78.241]) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CLu0h-0002XQ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 24 Oct 2004 18:50:59 -0700 Message-ID: <2012900.1098669059113.JavaMail.root@kermit.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 19:50:59 -0600 (GMT-06:00) From: Frank and Tracy Thallas To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Durer's shirt X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Has anyone made a shirt like the ones Durer wears in his self-portraits? The first idea of shape that comes to my mind is "peasant shirt", deeply smocked at the neck, but the neckline looks more "slit" or "boat" than rounded. Any guidance would be appreciated... Liadain _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 24 21:54:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9P1s4Po017488 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 2004 21:54:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9P1rZ4a024807 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Oct 2004 19:53:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9P1rYTd003431; Sun, 24 Oct 2004 19:53:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-03-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (ms-smtp-03-smtplb.ohiordc.rr.com [65.24.5.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9P1rUTd003418 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 2004 19:53:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ailith@neo.rr.com) Received: from duncan (dhcp024-209-056-164.neo.rr.com [24.209.56.164]) by ms-smtp-03-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id i9P1rQwa015709 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 2004 21:53:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002101c4ba35$5a867210$1902a8c0@duncan> From: "ailith" To: "Historical Costume" References: <7d21ac19041023093535088003@mail.gmail.com> <025201c4ba17$17b5c8a0$1902a8c0@duncan> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Eleanora of Toledo's grave dress Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 21:52:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry, no. There are some of Eleonora that I hadn't seen before (unfortunately in B&W), but no Laudomia... I hope that someday someone finds the book. I'd love to see it. kate ----- Original Message ----- From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2004 8:19 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Eleanora of Toledo's grave dress > > The book is "Moda alla coret dei Medici" (main title), "gli abiti > > restaurati di Cosimo, Eleonora e dom Garzia" (secondary title). > > Is this the book that has a color picture of the portrait of Laudomia > de'Medici? I know there's one somewhere, but I've never been able to get a > reference for it. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 25 01:25:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9P5PUKf019427 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 01:25:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9P5Or4a011002 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Oct 2004 23:24:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9P5OcTd001077; Sun, 24 Oct 2004 23:24:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from audiogram.mail.pas.earthlink.net (audiogram.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.253]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9P5OZTd001057 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 2004 23:24:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from dialup-4.152.120.148.dial1.atlanta1.level3.net ([4.152.120.148] helo=MOM) by audiogram.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CLxLO-0002CJ-8H for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 24 Oct 2004 22:24:35 -0700 Message-ID: <004e01c4ba52$ed1111e0$0300a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 01:24:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 140fedcc4d524cc6b18d26c2e407058b94f5150ab1c16ac08f4233f47979de266e0ab930df85f522bd576e14c8f1c1e8350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.152.120.148 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 1830s Virginia X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i9P5PUKf019427 Status: RO Linda, Your welcome Linda... I have had the flu since last Tuesday. I stayed in bed watching countless videos from Thursday -Sunday. Today I watched a video from the History Channel today titled Empires of Industry: Textiles: Birth of an American Industry. Some things brought up... 1. In 1807, Thomas Jefferson made an Embargo Act, that restricted the importing of textiles. One reason given was to make the colonists more self-sufficient in developing their own industries. He wanted to give the Industrial Revolution a push in the U.S. 2. Samuel Slater's mill in the 1820s spun yarns from 250 bales of cotton (I believe this was in a day... please don't make me what the video again to confirm it). The key word was *spun* and not weave. After the cotton was spun, it was sold to others to have woven. The reason Slater's Mill did not weave because weaving was a slow process at the time. 3. The price on woven goods came down drastically in the U.S. once the Lowell area mills opened. The video shows a model of one Lowell building where the carding, spinning, and weaving were all done on separate floors. Weaving was done on the top floor. Maybe a good place for you to search is the American Textile History Museum, http://www.athm.org/home_framemiddle1.htm . I don't know if this is helpful to you or not... concerning menswear. Men's clothing was manufactured far sooner than women's. The following might impact your time period. 1 . Brooks Clothing Company, established in New York in 1818, was a pioneer of ready-to-wear (RTW) clothes for men. 2. Oliver Fisher Winchester got his start manufacturing clothing to cover men's arms. He opened a store in Baltimore making and selling shirts (1837). He moved his business to New York (1847). He was the first American to patent manufacturing shirts in the U.S. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Online Reference Library, AND Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumegallery.com/research.htm www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 25 04:09:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9P89Dse028900 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 04:09:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9P88f4a000619 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Oct 2004 02:08:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9P88HTd081491; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 02:08:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk ([193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9P88ETd081205 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 02:08:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i9P87ba23364.; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 09:07:38 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 09:07:37 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 09:07:11 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Eleanora of Toledo dress and Medici crypt? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Allison T. wrote:T >The show also mentioned a flood in 1966 that may have destroyed a lot >of the grave goods, so here are my questions: I'm old enough to remember the 1966 Florence flood which attracted worldwide attention. Many priceless works of art were damaged and volunteers from other countries went to help with the cleanup operation. I visited Florence with my parents a year or so later. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 25 09:11:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9PDBIxn023109 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 09:11:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9PDAh4a027278 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Oct 2004 07:10:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9PDAWTd003041; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 07:10:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m14.mx.aol.com (imo-m14.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.204]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9PDAUTd002965 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 07:10:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.1e6.2ce0cc3a (4402) for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 09:10:23 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <1e6.2ce0cc3a.2eae553f@aol.com> Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 09:10:23 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1830s Virginia To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10718 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 10/25/2004 1:25:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time, penny@costumegallery.com writes: > . In 1807, Thomas Jefferson made an Embargo Act, that restricted the > importing of textiles. One reason given was to make the colonists more > self-sufficient in developing their own industries. He wanted to give the Industrial > Revolution a push in the U.S. > Self-sufficiency might have been one reason for the Embargo. However, I believe the main thrust was political. As Great Britain and the French Empire were fighting each other for world domination, each restricted the U.S. trade with the other. Jefferson thought he could get them to ease restrictions by declaring we would not trade with either of them. We did have raw materials that were in demand in Europe (tobacco, for one), but I think to the then European superpowers, we weren't that significant, and the embargo ended up hurting us more than it did them. This one was on the things that led up to the War of 1812. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 25 09:35:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9PDZ0jn023300 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 09:35:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9PDTS4a028600 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Oct 2004 07:29:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9PDTOTd011748; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 07:29:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9PDTJTd011697 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 07:29:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m52.in-tch.com [216.166.191.52]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i9PDRqc11979 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 07:27:52 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <417D00BE.9060401@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 07:33:50 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Durer's shirt References: <2012900.1098669059113.JavaMail.root@kermit.psp.pas.earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <2012900.1098669059113.JavaMail.root@kermit.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I haven't done that style (yet...), but here's a good article: http://www.bellomarisco.com/smocking.php --sue Frank and Tracy Thallas wrote: > Has anyone made a shirt like the ones Durer wears in his > self-portraits? The first idea of shape that comes to my mind is > "peasant shirt", deeply smocked at the neck, but the neckline looks > more "slit" or "boat" than rounded. Any guidance would be > appreciated... > > Liadain _______________________________________________ h-costume > mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 25 11:08:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9PF8mWR023946 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:08:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9PF7X4a007853 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Oct 2004 09:07:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9PF7LTd073165; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 09:07:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta13.adelphia.net (mta13.adelphia.net [68.168.78.44]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9PF7ITd073059 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 09:07:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from randl@adelphia.net) Received: from adelphia.net ([69.169.181.2]) by mta13.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.02 201-2131-111-104-20040324) with ESMTP id <20041025150712.ZPRY15118.mta13.adelphia.net@adelphia.net> for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:07:12 -0400 Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:07:12 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: randl@adelphia.net To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <8CC5E9EF-2697-11D9-8A52-000393D2F36E@adelphia.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] More thread for dummies X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This time I'm looking for a gold bullion thread. Not real gold, but a nice faux-gold. Does anyone know of any good on-line sources. I checked Google, Threadneedle Street and Thread Express, no go. Actually Threadneedle had it, but it's real metal. I think I'm a bit too new at this for real metal and real metal prices. Thank you! Laurie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 25 11:58:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9PFwvse024546 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:58:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9PFwB4a014392 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Oct 2004 09:58:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9PFw3Td013257; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 09:58:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com (adsl-065-013-105-239.sip.tys.bellsouth.net [65.13.105.239]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9PFvuTd013173 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 09:57:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i9PGJYBf059248 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 12:19:34 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: (from sfarmer@localhost) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3/Submit) id i9PGJYQ5059247 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 12:19:34 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 12:19:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Farmer Message-Id: <200410251619.i9PGJYQ5059247@sabre.goldsword.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Eleanora of Toledo dress and Medici crypt? In-Reply-To: <002601c4b886$c97457b0$1902a8c0@duncan> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > In the oh-so-nifty Italian book that is living with me, there are > color photos of what's left of Eleonora's burial gown (white satin > originally). I'm on my way out of town right now; I'll scan it when I > get home Sunday. Is this the "oh-so-nifty Italian book" that also had the Really Good Copy of the circular image of Eleanora in the Red Dress in it? I know that you said what book it was in, but the email with that information has evidently run away from home. :-( I'm fixing to hit up ILL ..... Jerusha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 25 12:40:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9PGehVJ025168 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 12:40:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9PGdb4a020629 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:39:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9PGd8Td047572; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:39:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065d05.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065d05.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.249]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9PGctTd047449 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:38:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hardcorps@earthlink.net) Received: from grover.psp.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.78.249]) by pop-a065d05.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CM7ry-0006yy-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 09:38:54 -0700 Message-ID: <3932450.1098722334304.JavaMail.root@grover.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:38:54 -0600 (GMT-06:00) From: Frank and Tracy Thallas To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Durer's shirt Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wow, that's a great article! Haven't gotten much into the smocked sort of undies (yet..) because my compulsion has been blackwork, but this definitely has me considering taking up a new hobby this winter.... Still wish old Albrecht would take of his jacket in one of those self-portraits, though, so I could see exactly how the sleeves go on.... ( I was startled last night to find a "nude self portrait" - he was apparently very proud of himself, but didn't show us his shirt...) Thanks! Liadain -----Original Message----- From: Sue Clemenger Sent: Oct 25, 2004 7:33 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Durer's shirt I haven't done that style (yet...), but here's a good article: http://www.bellomarisco.com/smocking.php --sue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 25 13:04:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9PH4IHC025446 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:04:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9PH3P4a024009 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:03:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9PH3HTd067784; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:03:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (chori.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9PH3ATd067649 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:03:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ldownward@chori.org) X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Sophos http://raeinternet.com/mpp Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP-TLS id 1575079 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:03:04 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.0.0.040405 Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:03:00 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Durer's shirt From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3932450.1098722334304.JavaMail.root@grover.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Tracy said: > Still wish old Albrecht would take of his jacket in one of those > self-portraits, though, so I could see > exactly how the sleeves go on.... ( I was startled last night to find a > "nude self portrait" - he was > apparently very proud of himself, but didn't show us his shirt...) > I remember my art history teacher going 'off' on Durer for this very reason. He showed us several points proving that Durer was a self-absorbed dandy even more than other artists and, so my teacher said, in some sort of competition with others at the time. He spent lots of money on clothes and depicted himself in the newest, best styles. His hair in a couple of self-portraits was extra-long (think of Durer as the Incroyable of his time) I can't remember why but the hats Durer wore were also something that the teacher pointed out at great length. Perhaps someone who had their art history classes sometime since 1973 would remember a discussion of these symbols of dandyism and coolness better than I do. LynnD _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 25 13:41:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9PHfMOn025783 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:41:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9PHdI4a028763 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:39:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9PHd9Td098510; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:39:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav25.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.82]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9PHd5Td098405 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:39:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:39:00 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by BAY9-DAV25.phx.gbl with DAV; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 17:38:20 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <8CC5E9EF-2697-11D9-8A52-000393D2F36E@adelphia.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] More thread for dummies Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:38:52 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Oct 2004 17:39:00.0770 (UTC) FILETIME=[834B9020:01C4BAB9] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://www.berlinembroidery.com/bullions.htm But check the rest of the site. It's amazing. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 11:07 AM Subject: [h-cost] More thread for dummies > This time I'm looking for a gold bullion thread. Not real gold, but a > nice faux-gold. > > Does anyone know of any good on-line sources. I checked Google, > Threadneedle Street and Thread Express, no go. Actually Threadneedle > had it, but it's real metal. I think I'm a bit too new at this for real > metal and real metal prices. > > Thank you! > Laurie > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 25 13:51:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9PHpZ6o025857 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:51:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9PHon4a000148 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:50:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9PHobTd009382; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:50:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065d05.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065d05.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.249]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9PHoXTd009334 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:50:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hardcorps@earthlink.net) Received: from grover.psp.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.78.249]) by pop-a065d05.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CM8zJ-0000rf-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:50:33 -0700 Message-ID: <11444375.1098726633538.JavaMail.root@grover.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:50:33 -0600 (GMT-06:00) From: Frank and Tracy Thallas To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Durer's shirt Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO German Renn isn't really my style - are his hats really that outrageous? My big impression of the whole style/era is slashy-poofy-feathery... Liadain -----Original Message----- From: Lynn Downward Sent: Oct 25, 2004 11:03 AM To: h costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Durer's shirt I remember my art history teacher going 'off' on Durer for this very reason. He showed us several points proving that Durer was a self-absorbed dandy even more than other artists and, so my teacher said, in some sort of competition with others at the time. He spent lots of money on clothes and depicted himself in the newest, best styles. His hair in a couple of self-portraits was extra-long (think of Durer as the Incroyable of his time) I can't remember why but the hats Durer wore were also something that the teacher pointed out at great length. Perhaps someone who had their art history classes sometime since 1973 would remember a discussion of these symbols of dandyism and coolness better than I do. LynnD _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 25 14:29:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9PITSH9026358 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:29:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9PISb4a005184 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Oct 2004 12:28:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9PISYcD042784; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 12:28:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out007.verizon.net (out007pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.107]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9PIQxcD041350 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 12:27:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hpockets@verizon.net) Received: from d3jqczs9642q62 ([67.166.191.59]) by out007.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20041025182656.JYWC22257.out007.verizon.net@d3jqczs9642q62> for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:26:56 -0500 From: "Gerita/Carolle Cox" To: Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:26:46 -0500 Organization: D. L. Cox, Inc. Message-ID: <003001c4bac0$2fe59a00$3bbfa643@d3jqczs9642q62> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <200410251801.i9PI0nTe019016@net.indra.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out007.verizon.net from [67.166.191.59] at Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:26:56 -0500 X-DCC-neonova-Metrics: net.indra.com 1127; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i9PIQxcD041350 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] New Books X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I raided Half Price Books in Addison, TX last night, and boy was I glad I did!! I collected: Momoyama - an exhibit catalog from 1996, Dallas, with all sorts of lovely things for my "Japanese" daughter, and lots of historical info as well. "How to Trace Your Jewish Roots" (Rabbi Jo David)to aid my part-Hebrew husband's search for the truth of his roots. Issue #5 of "Fancywork" which includes articles on Israeli Yemenite Embroidery, Hedebo, Blackwork, Japanese Silk Work, and Chinese Two-sided Embroidery. Yum!! The Unicorn Tapestries (Linda Sipress/Margaret B. Freeman). Lovely, lovely photos and good descriptions of tapestries that contain unicorns. Medieval Life and Leisure in the Devonshire Hunting Tapestries (Linda Woolley). Up-close photos of people in these tapestries, showing clothing, hats, you name it in good to incredible detail. Returning to lurk mode because if I don't finish packing, we cannot move this weekend!! Gerita People are like stained glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun is out, but when darkness sets in, their beauty is revealed only if there is a light from within. -- Elizabeth Kübler-Ross _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 25 14:33:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9PIXaRO026417 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:33:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9PIRp4a005078 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Oct 2004 12:27:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9PIRecD041900; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 12:27:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9PIRIcD041397 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 12:27:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (kf-ijss-cb01-0309.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.81.54]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F759319A34 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 20:27:00 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <417D4578.7030103@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 20:27:04 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-neonova-Metrics: net.indra.com 1127; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Difference between the first bustle period and second bustle period? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Is there any difference between the first bustle period and second bustle period? Like in shape or decoration? Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 25 14:52:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9PIq915026605 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:52:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9PIpO4a008083 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Oct 2004 12:51:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9PIouQF062211; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 12:50:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (chori.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9PIopQF062076 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 12:50:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ldownward@chori.org) X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Sophos http://raeinternet.com/mpp Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP-TLS id 1575789 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:50:46 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.0.0.040405 Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:50:45 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Durer's shirt From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <11444375.1098726633538.JavaMail.root@grover.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, but there was something special about his hats, and I would give a lot to remember why it was so outrageous. Maybe it was just way ahead of its time and outrageous for that reason. But the hair was too-too much at the time. You've got to remember, I'm old and I was young when I took Art History - in a darkened lecture hall at 8 am, before I knew how important this stuff would eventually be to me. LynnD > From: Frank and Tracy Thallas > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:50:33 -0600 (GMT-06:00) > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Durer's shirt > > > German Renn isn't really my style - are his hats really that outrageous? > My big impression of the whole style/era is slashy-poofy-feathery... > > Liadain > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lynn Downward > Sent: Oct 25, 2004 11:03 AM > To: h costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Durer's shirt > > > > > I remember my art history teacher going 'off' on Durer for this very reason. > He showed us several points proving that Durer was a self-absorbed dandy > even more than other artists and, so my teacher said, in some sort of > competition with others at the time. He spent lots of money on clothes and > depicted himself in the newest, best styles. His hair in a couple of > self-portraits was extra-long (think of Durer as the Incroyable of his time) > I can't remember why but the hats Durer wore were also something that the > teacher pointed out at great length. Perhaps someone who had their art > history classes sometime since 1973 would remember a discussion of these > symbols of dandyism and coolness better than I do. > > LynnD > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 25 15:15:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9PJExPL027161 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:14:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9PJEN4a010516 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:14:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9PJEBQF080856; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:14:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com (adsl-065-013-105-239.sip.tys.bellsouth.net [65.13.105.239]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9PJE6QF080788 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:14:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: from sabre.goldsword.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i9PJZiBf060198 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:35:44 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com) Received: (from sfarmer@localhost) by sabre.goldsword.com (8.12.6/8.12.3/Submit) id i9PJZiV4060197 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:35:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:35:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Farmer Message-Id: <200410251935.i9PJZiV4060197@sabre.goldsword.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Durer's shirt In-Reply-To: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Yes, but there was something special about his hats, and I would give a lot > to remember why it was so outrageous. Maybe it was just way ahead of its > time and outrageous for that reason. But the hair was too-too much at the > time. You've got to remember, I'm old and I was young when I took Art > History - in a darkened lecture hall at 8 am, before I knew how important > this stuff would eventually be to me. Oh, isn't that the truth. I've learned more Art History in the last year and a half than I ever did when I flunked AH as a freshman ...... (I don't memorize stuff well .....) Jerusha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 25 15:31:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9PJVn6M027656 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:31:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9PJOp4a011600 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:24:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9PJOkQF089033; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:24:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail5.mdx.safepages.com (mail5.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9PJOOQF088732 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:24:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail5.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id DCD261CBA14; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 19:24:21 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust57.tnt1.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.148.57]) by mail5.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 9C5881CB982 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 19:24:20 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <099701c4bac8$42b4d7b0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <417D4578.7030103@kabelfoon.nl> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Difference between the first bustle period and secondbustle period? Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:24:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deredere Galbraith" > Is there any difference between the first bustle period and second > bustle period? > Like in shape or decoration? Yep! The difference in decoration is much more subtle than the difference in shape--different types of fringe or lace, for example--and a lot of the decorative techniques do carry over. However, the shape and silhouette is quite different; the first bustle period had a higher waist (much higher, some years--enough to call it an empire waist) and a more conical skirt, and the bustle itself sat higher on the back. The front of the bodice generally ended in a straight horizontal line at the waist, rather than a point below the waist as in the 2nd bustle period. Around 1873 the bodices begin to extend past the waist, but the waist remains high until 1876. And of course, the ways in which the bustles were draped are quite different! The first bustle styles were generally based on the main skirt fabric being pulled up and back into place; if you pulled it apart it would be vaguely similar to a normal skirt. The bustles of the 2nd bustle period where a lot more complex, with added puffs and layers upon layers and things that wrapped around and and andandand... The early 1880s were probably the most complex years in terms of figuring out the pattern they used to get the fabric to do that, but the overall effect of complexity through either the pattern used or the trim added continued until around 1888 or 89. -E House Liberty in Our Lifetime - www.freestateproject.org Coming Soon - http://www.seamcheckers.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 25 15:49:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9PJnPwe027824 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:49:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9PJmM4a014786 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:48:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9PJm8QF007718; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:48:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.198]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9PJm5QF007609 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:48:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jacquelinejbump@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 50so105236wri for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 12:47:58 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=Lxx1K6IFgmCcD/nv+q5fGxcpFhh+/5RLS3cANu3d1403q1Y78A2Bq6fRFcHWQ0SsAoqVj5eA0aNAk7JgIAKI8wHEw3ojou4D/2DsA/OwcpO93n+39O6m8q/gwm+TpB+mseM2ynclqwmu1zqg8SOYKcOUPgrUpGduUpLLkxoMJks= Received: by 10.39.2.34 with SMTP id e34mr1195897rni; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:01:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.14.59 with HTTP; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:01:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4c5accc80410251101b725e6a@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:01:17 -0400 From: Jacqueline Johnson To: Holly Grimmet , My Bitches , Historical Costume Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Henry VIII X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In case no one saw the previews after the finale of The Lost Prince on Masterpiece Theater last night they are doing a Henry VIII movie t his fall and it looks good and the costumes look typical. Helena Bonham Carter as Anne Boleyn is the biggest name from what I can see. http://www.pbs.org/previews/masterpiece_henryVIII/ -- ============================ Italian Ladies 2005 Calendar http://www.lulu.com/kristalori http://kristalori.com http://snipurl.com/96f1 Dress Diaries http://snipurl.com/9bir That 70's Trailer ============================ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 25 15:54:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9PJstCr027874 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:54:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9PJsD4a015848 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:54:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9PJs4QF012839; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:54:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9PJs0QF012742 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:54:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brujne@creighton.edu) Received: from cindyabel (cla53081.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA01843 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:53:55 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Difference between the first bustle period and secondbustle period? Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:55:04 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-reply-to: <417D4578.7030103@kabelfoon.nl> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The first bustle period(c1867-1878)evolved from the hoop skirt so its shape is different. Look at illustrated ads for tournures for the time. The shape is more draped and the bustle itself seemed to aim at accenting that rear projection while keeping some softness. Among the wealthy, even day dresses had trains to emphasize the back fullness, and to show off a richness of lace and fabric pleatings and gatherings. The advent of aniline dyes in the 1860s produced very bold and different colors and color combinations. There is more assymmetry in the "haute couture" in this era , which culminated in the large pocket or just a fake pocket flap on one side of many gowns around 1876-7. Hats are smaller than in the second bustle period and sit far back on the head, echoing in tandem with the hairstyle, the drapped and bustle shape of the gown. The most popular hairstyle was waved and center-parted with a slight rise in back with lots of variations in the back and side hair styling in waves, curls and braids to create a "bustled" hairstyle. False hair was very much in vogue, and most additions to natural hair are very apparent in surviving photographs. The second bustle period(c1882-1888)evolved from the very tailored straight line of 1878-1882, where skirts, underskirts, and petticoats, could still to our eyes, contain a great deal of material but the skirt fullness was pulled in with drawstrings and tapes to produce a very narrow line. Straight bangs or "fringes" became popular and while wavy or curly hair remained popular, the waves and curls found themselves more strictly controlled, almost sculptured to go with the more sculptured and controlled line. The corset really starts being condemmned by medical and other experts as fashion decreed a very small waist(the now classic "hourglass shape") desired by many, but obtained only by a few. Don't condemm it totally, in reality tight-lacing was practiced by fewer females than we think and was probably no worse than excessive dieting and plastic surgery to get the "right" shape is today. The main difference was the tournure or bustle itself. Shaped more up and out, during its most extreme form(circa 1884-6), critics claimed one could have balanced a loaded tea tray on the top back skirts it supported. Hats became less bonnet-like, with larger crowns, and defined brims that were raised in front before they lowered to the flat "sailor style" variation of the 1890's. If you look at photographs of 1880's fashionably-dressed women, you will notice that even few of those really meet the too tightly corseted ideal and the fit of their gowns in the bodice area often shows the horizontal creases of a too-tight fit in the bodice. Many illustrious photographers of the era retouched the photos of their even more illustrious female clients, so that they would appear to have the perfect hourglass figure. Hope this helps Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 25 18:11:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9PMBOrT029131 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 18:11:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9PMAZ4a003105 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Oct 2004 16:10:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9PMAKQF020978; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 16:10:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9PMAHQF020932 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 16:10:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33FE15D1BD for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:10:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041025150936.0235f608@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:10:17 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Faire? In-Reply-To: <20041023154349.65492.qmail@web51405.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200409101252.i8ACqKBj072279@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:43 AM 10/23/2004 -0700, you wrote: >Many of you have talked about how much you enjoy playing in faires (Renn, >Dickens etc) How do you become members? I'd love to check it out. I am >located in the southwest corner of AZ (4mi from CA :-) Info pretty please?? > Angelique I replied to her offline. Anyone else want to advise? Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 25 19:58:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9PNwWk5029690 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 19:58:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9PNuZ4a015092 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Oct 2004 17:56:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9PNuNQF092357; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 17:56:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web51305.mail.yahoo.com (web51305.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9PNuKQF092231 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 17:56:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elvestoorder@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20041025235615.9106.qmail@web51305.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.237.35.179] by web51305.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 16:56:15 PDT Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 16:56:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Ann Catelli Subject: Re: [h-cost] first bustle vs. second bustle period? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <417D4578.7030103@kabelfoon.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO 1870's bustle--hoop moving back (starting c. 1858 per Boucher), so it's a sloped, partial bell-shape. 1880's bustle--much more right angle from the back waist. The cut of the skirt was different too--the 1880's started with a skirt & then draped every which way over it. The 1870's skirt was actually draped in place with nothing to start on. Norah Waugh's Cut of Women's Clothing or J. Arnold's Patterns of Fashion shows the difference clearly. Of course, I was dating all the garments Wrong at the Mark Twain house exhibit "Modesty Died when Clothes Were Born", and most that confused me were 1870-80's. Katie B mentioned it on this list a month or so ago. Look at the usual suspects--Victorian photography books, fashion periodicals & the Cunnington's handbook that cover the third quarter of the nineteenth century. Ann in CT --- Deredere Galbraith wrote: > Is there any difference between the first bustle > period and second > bustle period? > Like in shape or decoration? > > Deredere __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 25 20:08:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9Q08c7J029736 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 20:08:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9Q0864a016188 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Oct 2004 18:08:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9Q082QF098635; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 18:08:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm29.prodigy.net (ylpvm29-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9Q081QF098617 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 18:08:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-88-33.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.88.33]) by ylpvm29.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9Q07wTN019302 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 20:08:00 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20041025165135.0338d700@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 16:53:15 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Faire? In-Reply-To: <20041023154349.65492.qmail@web51405.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200409101252.i8ACqKBj072279@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Many of you have talked about how much you enjoy playing in faires (Renn, >Dickens etc) How do you become members? I'd love to check it out. I am >located in the southwest corner of AZ (4mi from CA :-) Info pretty please?? Find the website of the Faire you want to participate in, and find out when hiring day and workshops are. Show up there/then and look interested, and maybe sign up on the spot. This should be good for any period of Faire you're looking for, anywhere in the US. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 25 20:56:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9Q0uStG030037 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 20:56:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9Q0oi4a019863 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Oct 2004 18:50:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9Q0oeQF021256; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 18:50:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9Q0ocQF021242 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 18:50:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m212.in-tch.com [216.166.191.212]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i9Q0nDc18188 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 18:49:13 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <417DA070.7020905@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 18:55:12 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] More thread for dummies References: <8CC5E9EF-2697-11D9-8A52-000393D2F36E@adelphia.net> In-Reply-To: <8CC5E9EF-2697-11D9-8A52-000393D2F36E@adelphia.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hedgehog Handiworks sells it, or at least, they used to! --sue, who has intentions to get back to her goldwork as soon as the holiday crunch is over ;o) randl@adelphia.net wrote: > This time I'm looking for a gold bullion thread. Not real gold, but a > nice faux-gold. > > Does anyone know of any good on-line sources. I checked Google, > Threadneedle Street and Thread Express, no go. Actually Threadneedle had > it, but it's real metal. I think I'm a bit too new at this for real > metal and real metal prices. > > Thank you! > Laurie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Oct 25 23:26:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9Q3QXvY031221 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 23:26:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9Q3Pu4a002312 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Oct 2004 21:25:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9Q3PiQF096619; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 21:25:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065c32.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065c32.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.247]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9Q3PcQF096572 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 21:25:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from costumrs@radiks.net) Received: from user-12l20go.cable.mindspring.com ([69.81.2.24] helo=pierre-ynmjysj2.radiks.net) by pop-a065c32.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CMHxq-0002vE-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 20:25:38 -0700 Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.2.20041025221835.02540d18@pop.radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net@pop.radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 22:25:18 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <200410251801.i9PI0nTe019016@net.indra.com> References: <200410251801.i9PI0nTe019016@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Bullion thread X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Now that the craft stores, etc. have their Xmas stuff out, here's a suggestion: In with the ornaments, tinsel, etc., you can sometimes find coiled metal (looks like tiny springs) used as tinsel. The texture is a bit coarser than the actual metal bullion thread, but it is LOTS cheaper (a couple of bucks for a good sized bundle). Good to practice with. I have some in copper, silver, red, and blue, but haven't used it yet...... Don't overlook places like Home Depot or Menards - some of my most interesting costume trims (AKA Xmas decorations) have come from there. Sandy At 01:01 PM 10/25/2004, you wrote: >From: randl@adelphia.net >Subject: [h-cost] More thread for dummies > >This time I'm looking for a gold bullion thread. Not real gold, but a >nice faux-gold. > >Does anyone know of any good on-line sources. I checked Google, >Threadneedle Street and Thread Express, no go. Actually Threadneedle >had it, but it's real metal. I think I'm a bit too new at this for real >metal and real metal prices. > >Thank you! >Laurie "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed to Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly -- Why They Are Simply Doomed. Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 00:44:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9Q4iwDJ031646 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 00:44:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9Q4iN4a009013 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Oct 2004 22:44:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9Q4iGQF034920; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 22:44:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from asmtp-a063f33.pas.sa.earthlink.net (asmtp-a063f33.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.120.149]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9Q4iEQF034901 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 22:44:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [4.152.198.42] (helo=MOM) by asmtp-a063f33.pas.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CMJBt-0007Pl-VK for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 21:44:14 -0700 Message-ID: <00c301c4bb16$6fc6f140$0300a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <417D4578.7030103@kabelfoon.nl> <099701c4bac8$42b4d7b0$0400a8c0@compaqub> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Difference between the first bustle period andsecondbustle period? Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 00:44:09 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 140fedcc4d524cc6b18d26c2e407058b94f5150ab1c16ac08f4233f47979de26998e5bb79f21d3fee16e5c88e641dbef350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.152.198.42 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i9Q4iwDJ031646 Status: RO Deredere, There are eight different shape changes in the bustle era. I highly recommend the book "Victorian Costume for Ladies: 1860-1900, ISBN: 0-7643-1054-2. The author really divides up these years so that you can see what the specific changes were. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Online Reference Library, AND Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumegallery.com/research.htm www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 00:47:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9Q4lTP8031667 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 00:47:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9Q4kn4a009181 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Oct 2004 22:46:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9Q4kkQF036113; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 22:46:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm15.prodigy.net (ylpvm15-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9Q4kgQF036084 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 22:46:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-89-54.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.89.54]) by ylpvm15.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9Q4kfGa009047 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 00:46:42 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20041025214501.0259be50@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 21:46:35 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Bullion thread In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20041025221835.02540d18@pop.radiks.net> References: <200410251801.i9PI0nTe019016@net.indra.com> <200410251801.i9PI0nTe019016@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Now that the craft stores, etc. have their Xmas stuff out, here's a >suggestion: In with the ornaments, tinsel, etc., you can sometimes find >coiled metal (looks like tiny springs) used as tinsel. The texture is a >bit coarser than the actual metal bullion thread, but it is LOTS cheaper >(a couple of bucks for a good sized bundle). Good to practice with. I >have some in copper, silver, red, and blue, but haven't used it yet...... Went to WalMart today and found what they have. In metal it would be called "check purl", and the coils are square in cross section, not round like regular purl. I'm still looking for the regular round kind. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 02:58:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9Q6wESU019672 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 02:58:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9Q6va4a017131 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 00:57:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9Q6vLQF094575; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 00:57:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9Q6vGQF094482 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 00:57:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EE852E35B for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 01:57:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p307.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.53]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 7374BD3FD for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 01:57:13 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 01:57:14 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <14965039.1098638590363.JavaMail.root@bert.psp.pas.earthlink.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] comparing and sleeves was: image of Jane Grey? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was also comparing these two pictures as well. I disagree with hands being in the same position, as if the book was removed. The left hand of E is turned slightly so that the palm is somewhat facing up. On the right in E the pinky is curled where in the J it is straight. Their pose is similar, a very popular position so it would seem for most artist of this era, though I will admit I am not an expert of this era. Lots of similarities and yet differences. The poses do make you take a second look. What has caught my attention is in the portrait of E, the way the left sleeve lays on top of the false sleeve. Is this indication of a stiff false sleeve or where the false sleeve ends? Also, the ratio of chemise sleeve does not seem to match the cuff ruffle. Was there false chemise sleeves added to the false sleeves? In J the cuff ruffle material does not seem to match the chemise sleeve material. De -----Original Message----- Okay, took me a minute - You're right, the Catherine Parr pic is similar but obviously different. I didn't make myself clear - I was comparing http://photos.ladybrooke.com/sca/images/velvettudorgown/janegrey.jpg to http://www.marileecody.com/gloriana/princesselizabethscrots.jpg as being very very similar. BTW, does anyone know to whom the "Jane Grey" pic is attributed, or where it is? Liadain _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 03:13:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9Q7DFZd025847 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 03:13:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9Q7CX4a017937 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 01:12:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9Q7CTQF001593; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 01:12:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.141]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9Q7CQQF001538 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 01:12:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Oct 2004 07:12:20 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041026080711.01577800@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 08:12:34 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] comparing and sleeves was: image of Jane Grey? In-Reply-To: References: <14965039.1098638590363.JavaMail.root@bert.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 01:57 26/10/2004 -0500, you wrote: >I was also comparing these two pictures as well. I disagree with hands being >in the same position, as if the book was removed. The left hand of E is >turned slightly so that the palm is somewhat facing up. On the right in E >the pinky is curled where in the J it is straight. Their pose is similar, a >very popular position so it would seem for most artist of this era, though I >will admit I am not an expert of this era. Lots of similarities and yet >differences. The poses do make you take a second look. Possibly the same painter, using the same lay figure, and only adding the face later. This was done on a regular basis. (Many portraits of Queen Elizabeth were made using a !face pattern" like a stencil, and the painter never saw Her Majesty! ) You can tell sometimes by the fact that the dress is put on crooked!! >What has caught my attention is in the portrait of E, the way the left >sleeve lays on top of the false sleeve. Is this indication of a stiff false >sleeve or where the false sleeve ends? >Also, the ratio of chemise sleeve does not seem to match the cuff ruffle. >Was there false chemise sleeves added to the false sleeves? In J the cuff >ruffle material does not seem to match the chemise sleeve material. > > > >http://photos.ladybrooke.com/sca/images/velvettudorgown/janegrey.jpg > >to > >http://www.marileecody.com/gloriana/princesselizabethscrots.jpg > > as being very very similar. BTW, does anyone know to whom the "Jane >Grey" pic is attributed, >or where it is? As for the false sleeve, in practice the easiest way to make these is to make false pieces to simulate a chemise. See Hunnisett "Period Costume for Stage and Scree 1500-1800". It is therefore highly likely in my opinion, that the chemise ruffle is related to the chemise, but not to the false sleeve. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 06:42:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9QAgLxX032156 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 06:42:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QAfb4a001915 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 04:41:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QAfQQF089797; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 04:41:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QAfNQF089745 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 04:41:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (kf-ijss-cb01-0309.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.81.54]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69A20BE8C1 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:41:18 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <417E29D2.5070008@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:41:22 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Difference between the first bustle period andsecondbustle period? References: <417D4578.7030103@kabelfoon.nl> <099701c4bac8$42b4d7b0$0400a8c0@compaqub> <00c301c4bb16$6fc6f140$0300a8c0@MOM> In-Reply-To: <00c301c4bb16$6fc6f140$0300a8c0@MOM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks for the information! I want to make a bustle dress for an Archery competition next year in August. It is the 10th time they organise an archery competition in an openair museum in the Netherlands. And I promised them that I would come in bustle dress since in the 19th century lady's were alloud to do archery. I like those bustle dresses but I am still looking for wich stile I would like to go. Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 08:16:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9QCGVub032505 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 08:16:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QCFv4a014962 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 06:15:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QCFpQF031064; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 06:15:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QCEWQF030501 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 06:14:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-8.13) id AF9E13D30106; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 08:14:22 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.115 ([209.131.81.115] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 26 Oct 04 12:14:21 -0000 Message-ID: <002601c4bb55$52c6efc0$735183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "H-Costume" Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 08:14:20 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] tatting, purling and macrame X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i9QCGVub032505 Status: RO I am a part of a current discussion as to the age of the crafts of tatting and knotting. How early do these techniques appear and what forms do they take or develop into? Powrys and Palliser both suggest that the earlier form of tatting was actually "purling" which certainly was being used in the 16th century, and was re discovered in the 19th in form and method as we know it today. Anyone who can direct me to an earlier illustration? Macramé seems definitely to connect with Genoa and shows up in many new lace techniques that were being developed there...from what I can see. Any comments? Kathleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 08:52:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9QCqUA4032687 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 08:52:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QCpj4a021354 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 06:51:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QCpdQF047112; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 06:51:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065c28.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065c28.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.205]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QCpaQF047085 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 06:51:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.100]) by pop-a065c28.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CMQnY-00068W-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 05:51:36 -0700 Message-ID: <417E4865.5010609@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 05:51:49 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Younger Eleonora in red References: <5.2.1.1.0.20041017231633.00b158b8@64.87.54.245> <175C4793AFE4AB4596D4C17CCC98FD96854DD1@wo-exch2003.wideorbit.com> <41706DE3.1070606@thibault.org> <5.2.1.1.0.20041017231633.00b158b8@64.87.54.245> <5.2.1.1.0.20041018005632.02520008@64.87.54.245> <001701c4b4fd$29c46980$1902a8c0@duncan> <001a01c4b529$8145ac10$1902a8c0@duncan> In-Reply-To: <001a01c4b529$8145ac10$1902a8c0@duncan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry I have been out of the loop for awhile, but thank you for this picture. I had not seen it before. Now I have 5 different portraits of her in my stash. Does anyone have any more and did this discussion group ever find the portrait of young Elenora in red/pink that I had refered to earlier? I still have that if anyone wants that pic. Sg ailith wrote: >Ok...it's at http://geocities.com/brendoken/eleonora.html > >This is an old site that I own...there's nothing there but Eleonora >now. > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 09:06:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9QD6XLb000307 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 09:06:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QD5p4a022337 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 07:05:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QD5mQF053978; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 07:05:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QD5kQF053917 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 07:05:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Chindora@aol.com) Received: from Chindora@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.19a.2b3bb12f (4254) for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 09:05:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Chindora@aol.com Message-ID: <19a.2b3bb12f.2eafa59e@aol.com> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 09:05:34 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5000 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] the Jane Grey pic X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ya'll are just going to laugh at me, I know it, but I will admit that when I first saw this pic of Jane Grey that we are currently discussing, my immediate thought was that it was not a period piece, but one from a later time. I still believe that, but since ya'll are sure it is authentic to the period, I will concede that I made a snap judgement and happily embrace this lovely portrait for what it is. The painting seems to me to have a depth of character that I have not noted in other period portraits, and you can almost sense the pathos and tragedy ahead of her when you look into her eyes. I don't know why, but this, combined with the very artistic shading, just struck me as something from a later era, perhaps done by someone based on authentic period portraits but going one step further. Most of the other portraits seem so flat and undimensional, if you know what I mean, and yet when you look at Jane Grey in this one, you feel as though you are truly seeing her. I have hugely enjoyed all of the discussion on this subject and thank everyone for participating and sharing their thoughts. ~Kimberley....who is still trying to justify making the sleeves of a 1530 Florentine gown with a different velvet than the skirt and bodice and cannot find any documention. (grump) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 09:17:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9QDHuZL000391 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 09:17:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QDFx4a023354 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 07:16:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QDFpQF059004; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 07:15:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9QDFnQF058909 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 07:15:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m2.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABAZ6VRFA29E2EA for (sender ); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 06:15:17 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCoYOGgKdA+V5GqpV3pjN+s7tTary9MvjLg== Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KAVC2LH5; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 06:14:33 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 04:57:38 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] the Jane Grey pic Message-ID: <20041026.045741.-207324121.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 5-54 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-ContentStamp: 20:10:4264179104 X-MAIL-INFO: 15024e6ffb671a022efb074bba1fcf4eca4b37cfc3ef2ecf770783beeabe7e97df13d3be1a731a9fabdaeedffaabb7d3e7df73b77bc3deb793f3638b038b4f8e0fea9e8bae7fae6ba327e30feba31b9e870f7f1b1f7e072a07135eaa135e97ab5e97ab1f670e3ea702e39ae3fb37333b3fe3efd3f36aea6a8b1e5f8b1ea39e1ea3 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Actually, I thought the second 'Jane Grey' picture was a copy done at a later, possibly Victorian, time. There are stylistic subtleties that just don't match with what I'm used to looking at in Elizabethan portraiture......and I look at alot of them! As later copies go, it's very good, but I agree with Kimberley (you can laugh at both of us!) that it's not a contemporary piece. Karen On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 09:05:34 EDT Chindora@aol.com writes: > Ya'll are just going to laugh at me, I know it, but I will admit that > when I > first saw this pic of Jane Grey that we are currently discussing, my > > immediate thought was that it was not a period piece, but one from > a later time. I > still believe that, but since ya'll are sure it is authentic to the > period, I > will concede that I made a snap judgement and happily embrace this > lovely > portrait for what it is. > > The painting seems to me to have a depth of character that I have > not noted > in other period portraits, and you can almost sense the pathos and > tragedy > ahead of her when you look into her eyes. I don't know why, but > this, combined > with the very artistic shading, just struck me as something from a > later era, > perhaps done by someone based on authentic period portraits but > going one > step further. Most of the other portraits seem so flat and > undimensional, if > you know what I mean, and yet when you look at Jane Grey in this > one, you feel > as though you are truly seeing her. > > I have hugely enjoyed all of the discussion on this subject and > thank > everyone for participating and sharing their thoughts. > > ~Kimberley....who is still trying to justify making the sleeves of a > 1530 > Florentine gown with a different velvet than the skirt and bodice > and cannot > find any documention. (grump) > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/ month - visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 09:19:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9QDJR61000400 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 09:19:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QDIk4a023886 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 07:18:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QDIdQF061523; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 07:18:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9QDIaQF061433 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 07:18:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m2.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABAZ6VU8AZT546S for (sender ); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 06:17:18 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCoYOGgKdA+V5tU5uFhiUNMwrOq/FNmg6+A== Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KAVC6J5P; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 06:16:43 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 05:00:16 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Difference between the first bustle period andsecondbustle period? Message-ID: <20041026.050017.-207324121.1.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-8,10-32 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-ContentStamp: 12:6:3022111098 X-MAIL-INFO: 38f5181198bc6cf5f89889dcc8dd591819dc91596568f8594d8988c58dc5e825ec1cacc56c456c150d5581ece50d08ac35ec45080565e9082100b1bd5cbd01f9e18d49bd2cb92c29a53961e185a5754971e1b975dd31a8bc28e8355cf5c8ad3895ddac11dcd9558871c9dd157d196519452d00452dbd292dbd2915b5891c09918c498c9c78e5accc8cd50135cdb9cd759dbc759dad289dad391895f5a9dd38a9d988dd983898983dedcda5adf168b5914d159189a14dc515c5 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am an archer and a historic costumer starting to branch out into Victorian. I have a couple of period pictures of women doing archery in bustle dresses. If you'd like I can send them to you so you can see if you like any of the styles. Karen On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:41:22 +0200 Deredere Galbraith writes: > Thanks for the information! > I want to make a bustle dress for an Archery competition next year > in > August. > It is the 10th time they organise an archery competition in an > openair > museum in the Netherlands. > And I promised them that I would come in bustle dress since in the > 19th > century lady's were alloud to do archery. > I like those bustle dresses but I am still looking for wich stile I > > would like to go. > > Greetings, > Deredere > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/ month - visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 09:59:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9QDxqnc000583 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 09:59:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QDxA4a027605 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 07:59:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QDx3QF084319; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 07:59:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.mc.surewest.net (smtp2.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.51]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9QDx1QF084290 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 07:59:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-9287); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 06:59:00 -0700 Received: from unknown (64.30.124.24) by smtp2.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 06:59:00 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20041026064740.00d32d60@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 06:58:37 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] tatting, purling and macrame In-Reply-To: <002601c4bb55$52c6efc0$735183d1@rmitchellras> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp2.mc.surewest.net SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=64.30.124.24 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i9QDx1QF084290 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:14 AM 10/26/2004 -0400, you wrote: >I am a part of a current discussion as to the age of the crafts of tatting >and knotting. How early do these techniques appear and what forms do they >take or develop into? >Powrys and Palliser both suggest that the earlier form of tatting was >actually "purling" which certainly was being used in the 16th century, and >was re discovered in the 19th in form and method as we know it >today. Anyone who can direct me to an earlier illustration? >Macramé seems definitely to connect with Genoa and shows up in many new >lace techniques that were being developed there...from what I can see. >Any comments? > >Kathleen Tatting as we know it today is mid-19th century. The earliest instructions describe only rings, with threads between the rings covered later by buttonhole stitches. The working of chains was first described in, I believe, the 1850s or 1860s. I'm not certain what you are describing as "purling". I have heard of "knotting", basically making strings of knots, which can be couched down for decoration (and we do have examples from the 16th century). Fly fringe, very popular in the late 18th century, was worked in this way, though in a more complicated pattern than just strings of knots (and I still want to learn how to do it). Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 10:43:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9QEhrDg000871 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:43:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QEc34a002097 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 08:38:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QEbsQF011418; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 08:37:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QEbmQF011335 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 08:37:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from Bellview.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i9QEblr6010095 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:37:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20041026103609.00bc7008@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:37:46 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] the Jane Grey pic In-Reply-To: <19a.2b3bb12f.2eafa59e@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm not so sure that the picture is authentic. And unless I have missed someone giving a cite for it - then I'm going to withhold judgement until I get to see the original... or at least a far better image of the portrait. My two cents. Mari / Bridgette _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 11:24:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9QFOhP7001069 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:24:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QFNu4a007471 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 09:23:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QFNmQF047915; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 09:23:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from arkroyal.concentric.com (arkroyal.concentric.com [207.155.252.155]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QFNjQF047872 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 09:23:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) Received: (root@localhost) by arkroyal.concentric.com id LAA08761; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:23:43 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.17] Message-ID: <200410261523.LAA08761@arkroyal.concentric.com> From: Julie To: Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 08:23:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i9QFNjQF047872 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Help with British Terms X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm looking at an Elizabethan embroidery book that has several terms I don't know for items necessary for backing the satin before embroidering. What is vilene? What is contact? I don't think it's like the U.S. sticky Contact paper. Can't imagine that with embroidery. What is calico? I know it as a printed fabric from the 1800's, but that can't be right in this context. Thanks Juliet _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 12:11:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9QGBXHv001331 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:11:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QGA54a013605 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:10:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QG9uQF090621; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:09:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk ([193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QG9rQF089872 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:09:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i9QG9Da29783.; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:09:13 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:09:13 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:08:51 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help with British Terms Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Vilene is a brand of iron-on interfacing. Calico is a plain cotton fabric. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> jtknits@jtknits.cts.com 26/10/2004 16:23:43 >>> I'm looking at an Elizabethan embroidery book that has several terms I don't know for items necessary for backing the satin before embroidering. What is vilene? What is contact? I don't think it's like the U.S. sticky Contact paper. Can't imagine that with embroidery. What is calico? I know it as a printed fabric from the 1800's, but that can't be right in this context. Thanks Juliet _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 12:33:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9QGXlGK001433 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:33:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QGXB4a016130 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:33:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QGWxQF009799; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:33:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QGWeQF009512 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:32:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (kf-ijss-cb01-0309.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.81.54]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6C03BF00D for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 18:32:34 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <417E7C28.2010100@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 18:32:40 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Difference between the first bustle period andsecondbustle period? References: <20041026.050017.-207324121.1.Seamstrix@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <20041026.050017.-207324121.1.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes I really really would love to have them!!!!!!!! :-) :-) :-) Please send them. Thanks, Deredere seamstrix@juno.com wrote: >I am an archer and a historic costumer starting to branch out into >Victorian. I have a couple of period pictures of women doing archery in >bustle dresses. If you'd like I can send them to you so you can see if >you like any of the styles. > > >Karen > > >On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:41:22 +0200 Deredere Galbraith > writes: > > >>Thanks for the information! >>I want to make a bustle dress for an Archery competition next year >>in >>August. >>It is the 10th time they organise an archery competition in an >>openair >>museum in the Netherlands. >>And I promised them that I would come in bustle dress since in the >>19th >>century lady's were alloud to do archery. >>I like those bustle dresses but I am still looking for wich stile I >> >>would like to go. >> >>Greetings, >> Deredere >> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> >> >> > >________________________________________________________________ >Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. >Now includes pop-up blocker! >Only $14.95/ month - visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 13:06:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9QH5uCe001585 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:06:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QH4u4a020314 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:04:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QH4lQF037924; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:04:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mynah.mail.pas.earthlink.net (mynah.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.228]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QH4hQF037871 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:04:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hardcorps@earthlink.net) Received: from [63.186.0.239] (helo=familyroom) by mynah.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CMUkU-00088u-Ju for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:04:43 -0700 Message-ID: <002701c4bb7d$e07a8b10$ef00ba3f@familyroom> From: "Frank Thallas" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20041026.045741.-207324121.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] the Jane Grey pic Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:04:34 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 20944e7cb345c9e70cc1426638a40ef67e972de0d01da9402e03725c9f19085580b14005e3cb835c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 63.186.0.239 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'd been trolling web museum after web museum for portraits with blackwork at the time these pics came up, and I got the same exact sense from the "Jane" pic - something pretty subtle was off. Somehow she just doesn't look "flat" enough, if you get my meaning, to fit in with all the other paintings I'd been seeing. I'm not sure if anyone ever said - do we have an attribution for this painting? Do we know where, physically, it is? Liadain ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 3:57 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] the Jane Grey pic > Actually, I thought the second 'Jane Grey' picture was a copy done at a > later, possibly Victorian, time. There are stylistic subtleties that just > don't match with what I'm used to looking at in Elizabethan > portraiture......and I look at alot of them! As later copies go, it's > very good, but I agree with Kimberley (you can laugh at both of us!) that > it's not a contemporary piece. > > > Karen mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 13:10:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9QHAvrb001614 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:10:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QHAK4a021047 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:10:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QHAEQF042547; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:10:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m23.mx.aol.com (imo-m23.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QH5qQF038838 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:05:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.9f.5041efa1 (2168) for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:05:41 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <9f.5041efa1.2eafdde5@aol.com> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:05:41 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] first bustle vs. second bustle period? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 10/25/2004 8:00:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, elvestoorder@yahoo.com writes: > 1880's bustle--much more right angle from the back > waist. The early bustle silhouette from the front has that sorta wide bell shape with the hoop all the way around the figure, coming from a slightly raised waist and the 80s bustle has a clearly defined natural waistline and a narrower, column-like silhouette from the front, with the underpinnings just at the back. > > The cut of the skirt was different too > > Also the bodice. The early bodices are cut like the earlier 1860s with a 3 piece back or the "new" princess line with side back seams that go up into the shoulder seam...making a 3 or 4 piece back and no waist seam [but often a horizontal fish dart at the sides]. In the 80s the back of the bodice usually has a narrow panel where the princess seam used to be making a 6 piece back with the extra back piece going into the armseye. And skirts and bodices are very often separate again. Sleeves change too. The earlier sleeves being not so tight as their later counterparts and often elbow length with elaborate ruffles or cuffs to finish them off. They get tighter and plainer as the style progresses. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 13:28:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9QHS6xc001667 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:28:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QHRN4a023160 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:27:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QHRGQF057262; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:27:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QHRCQF057233 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:27:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kat@redtrollforge.com) Received: from katscomputer (ip50.133.du.eli.iinet.com [67.136.133.50]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59D1D6B30A for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:27:11 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@redtrollforge.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:27:06 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII Message-ID: <417E267A.4636.1252FB7A@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <4c5accc80410251101b725e6a@mail.gmail.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > In case no one saw the previews after the finale of The Lost Prince on > Masterpiece Theater last night they are doing a Henry VIII movie t his > fall and it looks good and the costumes look typical. Helena Bonham > Carter as Anne Boleyn is the biggest name from what I can see. > http://www.pbs.org/previews/masterpiece_henryVIII/ I hope she lets them fit her for her corset better than the one she wore as Jane Grey. (But perhaps Anne Boleyn won't slouch they way they had her do as Jane.) Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 13:29:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9QHT5Gs001672 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:29:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QHSQ4a023306 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:28:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QHSQQF058223; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:28:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp4.pacifier.net (smtp4.pacifier.net [64.255.237.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QHRCQF057228 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:27:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kat@redtrollforge.com) Received: from katscomputer (ip50.133.du.eli.iinet.com [67.136.133.50]) by smtp4.pacifier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDE026B306 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:27:09 -0700 (PDT) From: kat@redtrollforge.com To: Historical Costume Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:27:06 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Bullion thread Message-ID: <417E267A.5681.1252FBA9@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <4.3.1.2.20041025214501.0259be50@mail.frys.com> References: <6.1.2.0.2.20041025221835.02540d18@pop.radiks.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Went to WalMart today and found what they have. In metal it would be > called "check purl", and the coils are square in cross section, not > round like regular purl. I'm still looking for the regular round > kind. Keep looking. I've gotten plenty of the "check purl" stuff over the years but occasionally they also have the smooth purl. It sure helps cut costs when doing some of the gold work where you want to use more than just a small amount. Kat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 13:37:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9QHbmrY001719 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:37:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QHb04a024515 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:37:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QHarQF065757; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:36:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.197]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QHanQF065596 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:36:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jacquelinejbump@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 50so330622wri for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:36:44 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=UnkSZhOw6qJp/61t8RPuXikaTf2SlHSwAgoNv79h7QmITNBpn0iOel18j6UPoUcmClAANZlDzYX0IR3YzGGgm+PSXDgG5O59EB0UmeBnKyS4Qm/tJGjNesvbeVY0kEO+MkDs2icPX92f5lgjzZ+OK+AbuwYpUWY4mIOurvSbn0A= Received: by 10.38.65.59 with SMTP id n59mr591074rna; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:36:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.14.59 with HTTP; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:36:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4c5accc804102610367040193@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:36:44 -0400 From: Jacqueline Johnson To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII In-Reply-To: <417E267A.4636.1252FB7A@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <4c5accc80410251101b725e6a@mail.gmail.com> <417E267A.4636.1252FB7A@localhost> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:27:06 -0700, kat@redtrollforge.com wrote: > I hope she lets them fit her for her corset better than the one she > wore as Jane Grey. (But perhaps Anne Boleyn won't slouch they way > they had her do as Jane.) > > Kat > Well the previews didn't look bad the worst thing I saw was one of the women with hair peeking out the bottom of her french hood which I find annoying. Yeah I know nit picky but that's what hairpins are for. Good grief. B~ -- ============================ Italian Ladies 2005 Calendar http://www.lulu.com/kristalori http://kristalori.com http://snipurl.com/96f1 Dress Diaries http://snipurl.com/9bir That 70's Trailer ============================ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 13:41:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9QHfnNP001739 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:41:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QHex4a025098 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:40:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QHesQF069346; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:40:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (chori.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QHeoQF069169 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:40:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ldownward@chori.org) X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Sophos http://raeinternet.com/mpp Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP-TLS id 1579383 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:40:43 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.0.0.040405 Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:40:42 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <417E267A.4636.1252FB7A@localhost> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't think there's a corset in the world to keep Bonham Carter from slouching; I've never seen her in anything where she didn't. LynnD > From: > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:27:06 -0700 > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII > > >> In case no one saw the previews after the finale of The Lost Prince on >> Masterpiece Theater last night they are doing a Henry VIII movie t his >> fall and it looks good and the costumes look typical. Helena Bonham >> Carter as Anne Boleyn is the biggest name from what I can see. >> http://www.pbs.org/previews/masterpiece_henryVIII/ > > I hope she lets them fit her for her corset better than the one she > wore as Jane Grey. (But perhaps Anne Boleyn won't slouch they way > they had her do as Jane.) > > Kat > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 13:45:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9QHjUxh001772 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:45:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QHiq4a025630 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:44:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QHilQF072583; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:44:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.193]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QHiRQF072203 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:44:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jacquelinejbump@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 50so332330wri for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:43:47 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=kwmyRxFhY2Jq36k5BnGllrIJ7ARSZISV8JRcuT4AIIXt0IIzjglMh/EVbEOwFnCNKrgtqpnTkcuRFZq7UmIyuA8E/Uvb9bPVt5ronD+zaHM6+j2qqjiCHsfgfxIXhgXcE5omB075HFm1AfN7pQpjsIjAecxwIpYdwnRsNtFQQZc= Received: by 10.38.15.14 with SMTP id 14mr605854rno; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:43:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.14.59 with HTTP; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:43:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4c5accc80410261043346f6935@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:43:47 -0400 From: Jacqueline Johnson To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <417E267A.4636.1252FB7A@localhost> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO *g* She kinda does in this one too. And it's not even a good debutante's slouch at that. On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:40:42 -0700, Lynn Downward wrote: > I don't think there's a corset in the world to keep Bonham Carter from > slouching; I've never seen her in anything where she didn't. > > LynnD -- ============================ Italian Ladies 2005 Calendar http://www.lulu.com/kristalori http://kristalori.com http://snipurl.com/96f1 Dress Diaries http://snipurl.com/9bir That 70's Trailer ============================ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 14:11:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9QIBcW2002130 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:11:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QIAo4a000122 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:10:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QIAgQF097495; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:10:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm29.prodigy.net (ylpvm29-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QI5nQF092083 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:05:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-89-54.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.89.54]) by ylpvm29.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QI5ZHW022519 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:05:36 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20041026101851.031bbfe0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:19:52 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help with British Terms In-Reply-To: <200410261523.LAA08761@arkroyal.concentric.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >What is calico? I know it as a printed fabric from the 1800's, but that >can't be right in this context. They say calico where Americans say muslin, as in the bleached/unbleached stuff, not as in the fine stuff that English Regency dresses might be made of. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 14:15:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9QIFPWk002152 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:15:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QIEj4a000800 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:14:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QIEfQF001599; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:14:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.206]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QIDMQF000211 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:13:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goddessandqueen@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 69so499009wri for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:13:17 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=qeM0PSY/eO06bnZGnk+ES9cu5hknYDzXWwHIFT8A12vnWf4v/S50EMVprIsgytiD89VwaYZOTUImY4OO4Jm7LXAsxaly163WgQaeI2rEDYxhUrkwFHnJLMW6ocxRjY5k82Jp8HLWkAu/mXFDa7Df0iWw0THWPtZMZ9+joZx6aTI= Received: by 10.38.102.69 with SMTP id z69mr431362rnb; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:13:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.81.72 with HTTP; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:13:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6107d9c10410261113169c261@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:13:17 -0500 From: pixel To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <417DA070.7020905@in-tch.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <8CC5E9EF-2697-11D9-8A52-000393D2F36E@adelphia.net> <417DA070.7020905@in-tch.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] a medieval livery question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My SO remembers a reference somewhere about a medieval lord who clothed all his retainers in green. Unfortunately he can't remember where he read it, which is hampering my efforts to use the reference in my current research. Does it sound familiar to anyone? Thanks! Margaret/Pixel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 14:18:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9QIIFqP002178 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:18:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QIH44a001163 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:17:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QIGxQF003648; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:17:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QIGuQF003615 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:16:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brujne@creighton.edu) Received: from cindyabel (cla53081.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA05243 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:16:55 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Difference between the firstbustle period andsecondbustle period? Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:16:50 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <417E7C28.2010100@kabelfoon.nl> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just got Fashions of the Gilded Age Volume 1 from Amazon.com this morning. Haven't had time for a full perusal, but vol 1 has scale patterns from underwear to dresses 1877-1882. Vol 2(to be obtained by me at a later date)has ballgowns, wedding dresses, and outerwear. Frances Grimble is the editor of both and also has published a book of scale patterns for 1867-9(the begining of the first bustle phase.) The 1877-82 volumes cover the years where the first bustle period was giving away to a longer, straight up and down with reduced bustle in back, just before the "tea-tray" type bustle debuted at mid-decade. Go to www.lavoltapress.com for more info and to order if you don't want to wait for Amazon or bn.com to get Frances Grimble's books in. Frances has done an invaluable service for us historic costume buffs whether we dress humans or dolls with her scale pattern books covering years where original source patterns haven't been republished. Frances Grimble's "Fashions of the Gilded Age" volumes look quite lovely to the eyes of 2004 as the general line is slim and vertical with bust waist and hips all well-defined, and the trains appear romantic(unless you have to wear and handle them--but it is always something--the lady of 1877 would doubtless think our high heels and constant obsession with what we eat unreasonable and our present clothing too scant and definately immodest!) Also see Stella Blum's "Fashions from Harper's Bazaar:1867-1898. Many illustrations from both bustle periods and you get a really good feel for the evolution of fashion in this era for the very rich. Hope this helps! Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 14:28:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9QISm2c002232 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:28:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QIN94a001704 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:23:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QIMwQF008335; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:23:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QIMPQF007933 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:22:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from Bellview.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i9QIMMr6002599 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:22:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20041026142123.018aec00@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:22:23 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] a medieval livery question In-Reply-To: <6107d9c10410261113169c261@mail.gmail.com> References: <417DA070.7020905@in-tch.com> <8CC5E9EF-2697-11D9-8A52-000393D2F36E@adelphia.net> <417DA070.7020905@in-tch.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lok it up in "Dress in the Age of the Black Prince" Use the index to find Lincoln Green. That should do it for you. Sorry I don't have a copy here or I'd do it for you. Mari / Bridgette >My SO remembers a reference somewhere about a medieval lord who >clothed all his retainers in green. Unfortunately he can't remember >where he read it, which is hampering my efforts to use the reference >in my current research. Does it sound familiar to anyone? > >Thanks! > >Margaret/Pixel >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 14:38:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9QIcmoe002323 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:38:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QIcA4a003439 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:38:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QIc4QF020636; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:38:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d22.mx.aol.com (imo-d22.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.208]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QIc2QF020572 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:38:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Kitsune242@aol.com) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.65.36aaf978 (16087) for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:37:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aol.com (mow-d15.webmail.aol.com [205.188.139.131]) by air-id10.mx.aol.com (v102.9) with ESMTP id MAILINID104-3ed7417e997f2d2; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:37:51 -0400 Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:37:51 -0400 From: Kitsune242@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <37CF6BF7.3542BF4C.0BD9917F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 169.237.109.158 X-AOL-Language: english Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Crypts and Costume Research (Sort of Off Topic) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings All! After reading the various e-mails for the last couple weeks about extant clothing and such, I am wondering where other people stand on the subject of opening tombs/crypts to study Textiles/Costumes from earlier eras. I would really like to get other opinions, before I post my own. However, if you feel this is not something that belongs on this list, but you wish to give me your opinions anyway, please feel free to contact me in private. Thanks in advance, -- Kit If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - Kenneth Cole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 15:02:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9QJ2vCO002465 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:02:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QJ244a006197 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:02:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QJ20QF038944; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:02:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QJ1wQG038866 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:01:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i9QJBe8w002591 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:11:41 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20041026120055.02cd10d0@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:01:51 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: [h-cost] Crypts and Costume Research (Sort of Off Topic) In-Reply-To: <37CF6BF7.3542BF4C.0BD9917F@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think it's ghoulish and ghastly and reprehensible. Katie At 02:37 PM 10/26/2004 -0400, you wrote: >Greetings All! > >After reading the various e-mails for the last couple weeks about extant >clothing and such, I am wondering where other people stand on the subject >of opening tombs/crypts to study Textiles/Costumes from earlier eras. I >would really like to get other opinions, before I post my own. However, >if you feel this is not something that belongs on this list, but you wish >to give me your opinions anyway, please feel free to contact me in private. > >Thanks in advance, > >-- >Kit >If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - >Kenneth Cole > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 15:06:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9QJ6koE002481 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:06:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QJ5m4a006647 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:05:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QJ5mQF041895; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:05:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QJ5eQG041842 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:05:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-169.sonic.net [209.148.113.169]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i9QJ5dGO017364 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:05:39 -0700 Message-ID: <417EA005.5080204@lavoltapress.com> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:05:41 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Crypts and Costume Research (Sort of Off Topic) References: <37CF6BF7.3542BF4C.0BD9917F@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <37CF6BF7.3542BF4C.0BD9917F@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Is tomb excavation often done solely to study the costume and textiles (on the body and/or grave goods) of the deceased? Or is it normally done: (a) In the context of overall archeological research, to find out what the burial indicates about the culture as a whole Or (b) in the course of necessary alterations to a building or other area where the tombs are? For example, the lower part of the church needs to be buttressed more to support the building, the people buried there must be moved for this work to take place, and since the tombs must be opened this is a good opportunity for archaeological study? Also, why do you need to find out what other people's opinions on tomb excavation are before posting yours? A wide variety of opnnions are listened to and discussed this list, so I'm sure yours would be also. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Kitsune242@aol.com wrote: >Greetings All! > >After reading the various e-mails for the last couple weeks about extant clothing and such, I am wondering where other people stand on the subject of opening tombs/crypts to study Textiles/Costumes from earlier eras. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 15:30:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9QJUqH5002760 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:30:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QJUH4a009270 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:30:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QJU3QF060596; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:30:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QJU1QF060497 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:30:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f7c.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.124]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id BEDA747FECD for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:29:57 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000601c4bb92$36f239c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <37CF6BF7.3542BF4C.0BD9917F@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Crypts and Costume Research (Sort of Off Topic) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:30:08 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, It is a very very difficult topic you found here, but it is exciting. There are some crypts wich are examined by nescesity, i think about the royal burrial at Roskilde Cathedral where some of the kings small children was excamined. I was at a lecture with one of the ladies who did the examination. She told us that it was because the coiffins were falling apart that they had to do it, and it was not intended that they should have examined the children at all. But it was desided because the finds was very exceptionel and interresting. There are many considerations to make in such matters, and relligious spekulation two. I for myself dont think it is a break of the grave peace or what you would call it. It is just their dead body lying there, their spirits are not there any longer, so my two cents is it doesnt matter. Apropos this topic, when i was at Gammel Estrup to deliver my costume for the museum, i ate lunch with some of the curators, and they told me about some coiffins wich was excamined in a church here in Copenhagen. Many of the bodyes was from a big fire in a opera house wich burned in 1684. Many of the bodyes was balmed and therefore they were well preserved. They told me that the ladies upper body was coneshaped like the corsets. I would for one thing have loved to se this! Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 8:37 PM Subject: [h-cost] Crypts and Costume Research (Sort of Off Topic) > Greetings All! > > After reading the various e-mails for the last couple weeks about extant clothing and such, I am wondering where other people stand on the subject of opening tombs/crypts to study Textiles/Costumes from earlier eras. I would really like to get other opinions, before I post my own. However, if you feel this is not something that belongs on this list, but you wish to give me your opinions anyway, please feel free to contact me in private. > > Thanks in advance, > > -- > Kit > If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - Kenneth Cole > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 15:41:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9QJfdWk002816 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:41:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QJf14a010511 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:41:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QJetQF069079; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:40:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QJekQF068919 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:40:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Kitsune242@aol.com) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.7d.5baee1fc (16035) for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:40:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aol.com (mow-d22.webmail.aol.com [205.188.139.163]) by air-id10.mx.aol.com (v102.9) with ESMTP id MAILINID102-3ea3417ea83220d; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:40:34 -0400 Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:40:34 -0400 From: Kitsune242@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Crypts and Costume Research (Sort of Off Topic) MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <21EEF613.651F4201.0BD9917F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 169.237.109.158 X-AOL-Language: english Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 10/26/2004 3:05:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Lavolta Press writes: >Is tomb excavation often done solely to study the costume >and textiles (on the body and/or grave goods) of the >deceased?  Or is it normally done: Often? No. But it has been done, otherwise we wouldn't have quite as much knowledge as we do now about textiles and clothing. Not everything which has been studied has been due to extenuating circumstances. >(a) In the context of overall archeological research, to find >out what the burial indicates about the culture as a whole > >Or (b) in the course of necessary alterations to a building >or other area where the tombs are?  For example, the lower >part of the church needs to be buttressed more to support the >building, the people buried there must be moved for this work >to take place, and since the tombs must be opened this is a >good opportunity for archaeological study? I asked the question exactly as I chose to ask it. I wanted to see people's response to the question, phrased just as it was. I have found when I have asked this question of my friends over the last week that they automatically answered both sides of the question. Rather than my guiding their thoughts in any one direction. So when I decided to ask the question here, I chose to ask this question and see how people answered. >Also, why do you need to find out what other people's >opinions on tomb excavation are before posting yours?  A >wide variety of opnnions are listened to and discussed this >list, so I'm sure yours would be also. In my experience on this list, I have found that if a person asks a question and immediately gives their own response the list members are less likely to respond with theirs, unless it is something terribly out there. (i.e. the Sky is Chartreuse) I really wanted to hear how other people felt about the situation. Therefore, I held my response until later. I have also found that there are some questions that people just don't want to discuss or just aren't interested in. Therefore, once again, I chose to hold my opinion, until I saw how the list was going to respond. Kit If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - Kenneth Cole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 16:24:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9QKOno3002977 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:24:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QKNw4a014980 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:23:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QKNia9003326; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:23:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m14.mx.aol.com (imo-m14.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.204]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QKNfa9003214 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:23:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Kitsune242@aol.com) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.5b.5c33ec42 (15877) for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:23:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aol.com (mow-d13.webmail.aol.com [205.188.139.129]) by air-id07.mx.aol.com (v102.9) with ESMTP id MAILINID74-3e05417eb23c1c9; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:23:24 -0400 Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:23:24 -0400 From: Kitsune242@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Crypts and Costume Research (Sort of Off Topic) MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <1D0F9734.4B33830E.0BD9917F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 169.237.109.158 X-AOL-Language: english Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by net.indra.com id i9QKNfa9003214 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Since I have gotten some chiding from friends (No Fran, you are not the only person who asked me why I didn't post my opinion, I decided to go ahead and do so now. {smile}) Like Bjarne, I have a hard time being able to cut my feelings on the subject down to one side, it really is a hard question to answer. Being an amateur Historian and sometime History Major, I find that opening tombs/crypts is a very important part of studying the past. We know so much more now about civilizations and catastrophes than we would have if we hadn't done this sort of research. Just like the part of me that wants to know how each seam was put into a dress or each stitch in a needle worked piece was laid... Yes, part of me wants to dig up Lizzy Borden's parents to try to do a modern forensic study of them and find out if she really did commit double murders {sick huh?}. Or do DNA testing of each and every member of past royal houses to see if there was ever an "indiscretion" put onto a throne. However, the other part of me wants to say let the dead lie. Part of me, even though I don't believe the person still exists in the body, doesn't want anyone handling, moving, or studying a dead body and/or their personal possessions that were laid the rest with them. One of my specialties when I was in school was Eqyptology. I have never been to Egypt, and I don't know if I will be able to go in my lifetime. However, as much as I love ancient Egypt, it really upsets me when I go to some place like the British Museum and see items taken from the tombs. In the same respect, I don't like it when someone opens a crypt just to study the person inside and then seal it up again. They haven't removed anything, just opened it, taken some notes and sealed it again. That shouldn't bother me... At least that's what I tell myself, when I am staring at the Rosetta Stone or reading through a text on some historical burial practice. However, the truly confusing part of the question, what do you do when the bodies/tombs/crypts are mistakenly found or opened under extenuating circumstances. Circumstances like when the Two Princes (or bodies of what might have been the two princes) were found in the staircase that was being resettled in the Tower of London or when work needs to be done on a crypt that was damaged in a fire. This is the time I have the hardest trouble deciding how I feel about it. I live across the street from an old cemetery (well old for California) and there are stories of the coffins or bodies floating when the rivers would flood. The last time this happened, the floating coffins were opened for examination (as is often the case since it is very difficult to tell where each body goes) Add to this, most of the coffins were falling apart and the coffins were going to need to be replaced. Therefore, the bodies were taken for examiniation... The people that examined them didn't pull them from their crypts or from the ground, they were brought out of their tombs by Mother nature. Every body was given a new casket and plunged back into the ground when the note taking was done. But part of my brain has problems with the fact that the coffins were opened in the first place. I don't know what to do with the Two Princes, I don't think they should have been left in the staircase, but neither do I think they should have been moved. I guess was I am trying to say is that, my answer to the question is not cut and dry. There is no simple answer to it. My thirst for knowledge (it may sound melodramatic, but I am told I am a rather melodramatic person) makes me overlook what I consider to be an unacceptable practice. However, the part of me that doesn't like the opening of crypts causes me to question if I should pay money for a book based on excavation finds from crypts and tombs. In other words, I don't know how I feel about it, and I guess that is why I am so interested in other people's opinions on the subject. Somewhere deep down, I think I am also looking to hear other opinions, so that I can better understand my own. Kit In a message dated 10/26/2004 2:37:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Kitsune242@aol.com writes: >Greetings All!>>After reading the various e-mails for the last couple weeks about extant clothing and such, I am wondering where other people stand on the subject of opening tombs/crypts to study Textiles/Costumes from earlier eras.  I would really like to get other opinions, before I post my own.  However, if you feel this is not something that belongs on this list, but you wish to give me your opinions anyway, please feel free to contact me in private.>>Thanks in advance,>>-- >Kit>If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - Kenneth Cole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 16:33:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9QKXHuS003005 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:33:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QKWa4a015983 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:32:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QKWQa9010353; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:32:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QKWNa9010305 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:32:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58B8C2E14A for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:32:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t3p193.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.220.195]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 3FF1DD4BA for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:32:21 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Bullion thread Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:32:24 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20041025221835.02540d18@pop.radiks.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm having a bit of a brain fog but Walmart, Hobby Lobby and JoAnn's carry embroidery floss/metalic by a company(here's where the brain fog comes in) that starts "Kre". Jo Ann's and Hobby Lobby carry the greater of the three, selection. De -----Original Message----- Now that the craft stores, etc. have their Xmas stuff out, here's a suggestion: In with the ornaments, tinsel, etc., you can sometimes find coiled metal (looks like tiny springs) used as tinsel. The texture is a bit coarser than the actual metal bullion thread, but it is LOTS cheaper (a couple of bucks for a good sized bundle). Good to practice with. I have some in copper, silver, red, and blue, but haven't used it yet...... Don't overlook places like Home Depot or Menards - some of my most interesting costume trims (AKA Xmas decorations) have come from there. Sandy At 01:01 PM 10/25/2004, you wrote: >From: randl@adelphia.net >Subject: [h-cost] More thread for dummies > >This time I'm looking for a gold bullion thread. Not real gold, but a >nice faux-gold. > >Does anyone know of any good on-line sources. I checked Google, >Threadneedle Street and Thread Express, no go. Actually Threadneedle >had it, but it's real metal. I think I'm a bit too new at this for real >metal and real metal prices. > >Thank you! >Laurie "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed to Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly -- Why They Are Simply Doomed. Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 16:40:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9QKef01003060 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:40:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QKds4a016791 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:39:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QKdma9016095; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:39:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from asmtp-a063f35.pas.sa.earthlink.net (asmtp-a063f35.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.120.220]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QKdja9016062 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:39:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hardcorps@earthlink.net) Received: from [63.186.0.208] (helo=familyroom) by asmtp-a063f35.pas.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CMY6a-0004Gf-3R for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:39:44 -0700 Message-ID: <000401c4bb9b$eae13810$d000ba3f@familyroom> From: "Frank Thallas" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Bullion thread Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:39:24 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 20944e7cb345c9e70cc1426638a40ef67e972de0d01da9409e07a10bd9b17a3e161f64ae8bcc5e95350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 63.186.0.208 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kreinik, isn't it? liadain ----- Original Message ----- From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 2:32 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Bullion thread > I'm having a bit of a brain fog but Walmart, Hobby Lobby and JoAnn's carry > embroidery floss/metalic by a company(here's where the brain fog comes in) > that starts "Kre". Jo Ann's and Hobby Lobby carry the greater of the > three, > selection. > > De > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 17:19:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9QLJ4Wl003230 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:19:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QLI94a021511 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:18:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QLI4a9047164; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:18:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9QLI0a9047008 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:18:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m08.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABAZ7RZYAU2USGA for (sender ); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:17:42 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/Ol+RDa+AHUKjeAdHVy0T9d8= Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KAV8MZ6E; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:17:01 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:03:56 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Bullion thread Message-ID: <20041026.141631.4008.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-ContentStamp: 28:14:4278013607 X-MAIL-INFO: 3fe5c0918de9dde5498da4b0a959d0c019b02dd085fd49d065a450949d9499ed8935d194dd11ddb440c4d5897d4039d1a5891139cd85453934255d71e0717960059db971bd95bd04a1f5f90581a110b9510595105999a41da4356df4356ded406ded4059e9a0f0f1e5f930f98d2d2461b1f9fdd125749d7471d90171d9a1b9d9a1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Krennick? Arlys On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:32:24 -0500 "otsisto" writes: > I'm having a bit of a brain fog but Walmart, Hobby Lobby and JoAnn's > carry > embroidery floss/metalic by a company(here's where the brain fog > comes in) > that starts "Kre". Jo Ann's and Hobby Lobby carry the greater of the > three, > selection. > > De > > -----Original Message----- > Now that the craft stores, etc. have their Xmas stuff out, here's a > suggestion: In with the ornaments, tinsel, etc., you can sometimes > find > coiled metal (looks like tiny springs) used as tinsel. The texture > is a > bit coarser than the actual metal bullion thread, but it is LOTS > cheaper (a > couple of bucks for a good sized bundle). Good to practice with. I > have > some in copper, silver, red, and blue, but haven't used it yet...... > > Don't overlook places like Home Depot or Menards - some of my most > interesting costume trims (AKA Xmas decorations) have come from > there. > > Sandy > > At 01:01 PM 10/25/2004, you wrote: > >From: randl@adelphia.net > >Subject: [h-cost] More thread for dummies > > > >This time I'm looking for a gold bullion thread. Not real gold, but > a > >nice faux-gold. > > > >Does anyone know of any good on-line sources. I checked Google, > >Threadneedle Street and Thread Express, no go. Actually > Threadneedle > >had it, but it's real metal. I think I'm a bit too new at this for > real > >metal and real metal prices. > > > >Thank you! > >Laurie > > "Those Who Fail To Learn History > Are Doomed to Repeat It; > Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly -- > Why They Are Simply Doomed. > > Achemdro'hm > "The Illusion of Historical Fact" > -- C.Y. 4971 > > Andromeda > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/ month - visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 17:26:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9QLQaSF003280 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:26:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QLPu4a022350 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:25:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QLPoa9052871; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:25:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QLPmaA052840 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:25:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-208.sonic.net [209.148.114.208]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i9QLPkvR029280 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:25:47 -0700 Message-ID: <417EC0DD.3080102@lavoltapress.com> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:25:49 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Crypts and Costume Research (Sort of Off Topic) References: <1D0F9734.4B33830E.0BD9917F@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <1D0F9734.4B33830E.0BD9917F@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sure, I think human remains are gross, as do a great many other people. Especially people who are not used to working with them, which I'm not. But history and archaeology are sciences. Part of being a professional in either is setting aside personal feelings so that you can work as objectively as possible. If you work with corpses, you have to set aside your emotional reactions to that. As for the deceased's spirit--the spirit is gone. According to your religious beliefs (if any) you can argue about where (if anywhere) the spirit went. But it's definitely no longer in the body. An enormous amount of information about older cultures has been gained from excavating tombs and from bodies found when excavating other structures. The living can benefit a great deal from this information. The dead won't be any better off one way or the other. I'd be thrilled if someone opened up hundreds more ancient-through-Renaissance tombs with clothing in relatively good condition and made detailed studies on it. While my first reaction is that I'd rather someone else unwound the shroud, I suppose I'd get used to it. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com >I guess was I am trying to say is that, my answer to the question is not cut and dry. There is no simple answer to it. My thirst for knowledge (it may sound melodramatic, but I am told I am a rather melodramatic person) makes me overlook what I consider to be an unacceptable practice. > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 17:42:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9QLgHFX003428 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:42:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QLfb4a025854 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:41:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QLfPa9064693; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:41:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QLe8a9063693 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:40:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.42] (p26.3c01.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.42]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i9QLcSG32345 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:38:28 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <417EC0DD.3080102@lavoltapress.com> References: <1D0F9734.4B33830E.0BD9917F@aol.com> <417EC0DD.3080102@lavoltapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <454CA986-2798-11D9-9222-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Crypts and Costume Research (Sort of Off Topic) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:44:53 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I work with a young woman who is studying for her masters degree in paleopathology or pathopaleontology, I forget which is the correct term, so I will ask her about this topic, since I would imagine the studying corpses found in tombs would be a big part of the research done in her field. Sylrog _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 18:20:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9QMKGTQ003611 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 18:20:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QMJM4a001692 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:19:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QMJHa9093584; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:19:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tin.wightman.ca (tin.wightman.ca [216.249.0.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QMJDa9093474 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:19:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lgsteph@wightman.ca) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by tin.wightman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C4B433988 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 18:19:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d7k7b6 (unknown [142.46.141.52]) by tin.wightman.ca (Postfix) with SMTP id 263D033990 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 18:19:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001101c4bbaa$74fba5e0$6400a8c0@wightman.ca> From: "Five Rivers" To: References: <200410262120.i9QLJvaA048492@net.indra.com> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 18:22:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Bullion thread X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just to be a bit pedantic here. :-) Bullion thread refers to precious metal thread, as in real gold and real silver. Kreinik does produce both of these. We carry them. Kreinik also produces metallic thread. There is a difference between metal and metallic. Metallic refers to any mylar or other material that creates a faux real metal thread. Careful in crossing the two terms. And then just to confuse matters even more, there are three different grades of bullion thread, the lowest being military, which has a copper core, plated with silver, plated with thin gold. This grade tarnishes easily. The next grade is ecclesiastical, which is a copper core, plated with silver, heavily plated with gold. This is the grade Kreinik makes. It stays bright up to 25 years, depending on the atmospheric conditions. We carry these threads. The best grade of bullion thread is made with a silver core and heavily plated with gold. There are few manufacturers of these peerless threads, but we are fortunate enough to deal with one of them, out of Spain, and which manufacturers the bullion thread in the exact same manner as they did hundreds of years ago. It is expensive. It is gorgeous. And at some point I'm going to have a personal stash. We carry these threads through special order. Just thought you might want to know. Lorina back to working on the Water embroidery Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage fine hand-sewn embroidered garments, historical sewing patterns & embroidery supplies (519) 799-5577, http://www.5rivers.org email: info@5rivers.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 19:09:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9QN9nVb003839 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:09:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QN7h4a006767 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:07:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QN7Qa9030024; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:07:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QN7La9029911 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:07:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.100] (pm7-100.eos.net [205.133.149.100]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9QN7EjE025301 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:07:15 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:03:02 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200410262120.i9QLJvaA048492@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: opening tombs X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO on 10/26/04 5:20 PM, Kit wrote: > I would really like to get other opinions, before I post my own. I find this a curious request. If you need to ask for other opinions before you post your own, perhaps this is a topic you should not bring up. Personally, while I find the idea a bit morbid, I don't have any problem with it. Those folks have been dead for a long time, it's not going to bother them. I do think the exhumation should be done for some other reason than studying textiles, though. That doesn't seem to me to be a serious enough reason to open a tomb. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 19:20:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9QNKGQA003874 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:20:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QNId4a007761 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:18:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QNIZa9037031; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:18:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (chori.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QNIXa9036961 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:18:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ldownward@chori.org) X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Sophos http://raeinternet.com/mpp Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP-TLS id 1581170 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:18:27 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.0.0.040405 Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:18:27 -0700 From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Hair powder X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Last week the question came up about what was used for hair powder. I've been looking ever since and I finally found a quote from last years Forgotten English calendar, a daily calendar I love to keep at work. Each day there is a word no longer commonly used in modern English and some occurrence, saint's day or something. The two are usually related. For November 20: BAG-WIG: A man's wig, fashionable in the eighteenth centruy, the back-hair of which was enclosed in an ornamental bag. Hence, bag-wigged, wearing a bag-wig. - James Murray's New English Dictionary, 1888 ON the 20th of November, 1746, fifty-one barbers were convicted before the Commissioners of Excise, and fined the penalty of 20 pounds each for having in their custody hair-powder not made of starch, contrary to act of parliament; and on the 27th of the same month, forty-nine other barbers were convicted of the like offense, and fined. -- William Hone's Every-day Book, or Everlasting Calendar, 1827. Cheers, LynnD _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 19:23:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9QNNFDw003887 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:23:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QNMX4a008036 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:22:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QNMSa9039373; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:22:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9QNMOa9039271 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:22:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m2.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABAZ7ZACAHFDHVS for (sender ); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:21:38 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCi4S5WpfIEGao1qFJf/rFkDEqeyJd9SBdA== Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KAWFRDR8; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:21:11 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 18:24:53 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: opening tombs Message-ID: <20041026.182453.-709889.4.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 9-11 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-ContentStamp: 5:2:4158641716 X-MAIL-INFO: 106541298df5081d4ccd0c81a52cd9bdb839613575ed2c5c694dc1f1891cf115ac895d1c5d5ddddcd8117178e925ccd519ccb16dd57d197d X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Personally, I have no problem with investigating graves to glean whatever information we can from what remains inside. The crucial element is the respect for the remains of the person. I prefer it when the remains are put back pretty much as they were found after the tests and such are over. Whatever made that person a person is long gone by the time we contemporary folks go poking around. I got my minor in Cultural Anthropology and for the physical requirement I did a semester of 'physical anthropology' which means that I messed about with human skeletal remains. If you don't want to mess with the bodies, Fran, I'll be happy to go in for the first look! ;-) Karen ________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/ month - visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 19:26:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9QNQwFk003897 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:26:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QNQO4a008375 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:26:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QNPla9041616; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:25:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail10.mdx.safepages.com (mail10.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.33]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9QNPha9041532 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:25:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail10.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id E4BF020A0A; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 23:25:49 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust62.tnt3.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.197.62]) by mail10.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 4C4C7209D0 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 23:25:43 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <0a9901c4bbb3$24de6030$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 18:25:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] buying images from V&A X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i9QNQwFk003897 Status: RO Is anyone familiar with buying images of items in V&A's collection? Could you tell me about the process, cost, formats available, etc? Off-list is fine, but others may be interested. Either I'm blind, or their website has no information other than an email link! (Yep, I emailed. Impatient!) -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 20:04:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9R049YQ004054 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:04:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R03V4a011448 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 18:03:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R03Na9062609; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 18:03:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R03La9062532 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 18:03:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from athurman@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 44so381640wri for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:01:43 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=l/6zxtlCbVIB9LlOzg+6JR3Ghw6bmrPD+jQjXBDoKhGswRDsMjLcNo1Cd+4sJCQlKvaXyEhCzGmw4m1RURg08RS1P7bnF255XUygOK8zNVFNjKDa/Tnadw3d55nQGPHsA+I/ktz2i+0g3VUre4QBmTAPtIhI5/1SGRIBcKWX+GQ= Received: by 10.38.150.44 with SMTP id x44mr815645rnd; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:01:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.164.21 with HTTP; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:01:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7d21ac1904102617014b09541d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:01:38 -0400 From: "A. Thurman" To: Historic Costume List Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Medici book in Italian X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks for the title. A quick check at Bookfinder Italian hasn't netted me anything yet, but if I run across a copy or source for copies I'll let y'all know! Allison T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 20:24:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9R0Ox84004126 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:24:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R0OM4a013263 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 18:24:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R0OFa9073847; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 18:24:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from incoming.SIGENETICS.com ([209.172.110.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R0OAa9073698 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 18:24:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sbuchler@silicongenetics.com) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:24:02 -0700 Message-ID: <0D3431E0FD777844A4ED9507E4D698D90D27A4@incoming.sigenetics.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 854 Thread-Index: AcS7ojUFU9FvoN1WT0SbpSf84wQ62QADNpQw From: "Sunny Buchler" To: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i9R0OAa9073698 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: a medieval livery question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > My SO remembers a reference somewhere about a medieval lord who > clothed all his retainers in green. Unfortunately he can't remember > where he read it, which is hampering my efforts to use the reference > in my current research. Does it sound familiar to anyone? This is probably not quite what you're looking for, but it might help. There is a reference in Mary Stella Newton's _The Dress of the Venetians, 1495-1525 _ to the well-off Venetians simply buying lots of the same fabric to cloth their entire household. It might be a different fabric every year, but it sounded like everyone in the household got clothed in the same stuff. -sunny _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 21:15:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9R1FgWg004314 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:15:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R1Et4a017060 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:14:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R1Epa9000453; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:14:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R1Ema9000428 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:14:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29729 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:24:13 -0500 Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:24:12 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: a medieval livery question In-Reply-To: <0D3431E0FD777844A4ED9507E4D698D90D27A4@incoming.sigenetics.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 26 Oct 2004, Sunny Buchler wrote: > > My SO remembers a reference somewhere about a medieval lord who > > clothed all his retainers in green. Unfortunately he can't remember > > where he read it, which is hampering my efforts to use the reference > > in my current research. Does it sound familiar to anyone? > This is probably not quite what you're looking for, but it might > help. There is a reference in Mary Stella Newton's _The Dress of the > Venetians, 1495-1525 _ to the well-off Venetians simply buying lots of > the same fabric to cloth their entire household. It might be a > different fabric every year, but it sounded like everyone in the > household got clothed in the same stuff. There are similar references in, I think, Christopher Dyer's "Standards of Living in the Later Middle Ages." Dyer examines a lot of household inventories and account books to track expenditures for various categories of goods, including clothing. What I remember from the passage in question was that the household head (in this particular case) would buy some large quantity of a particular fabric -- whatever seemed like a good value at the time -- to make the clothing for a large proportion of the household members in a given year. The recipients were those people who would be given a new outfit annually as part of their pay or living arrangement; not just servants and squires and such, but also the occasional cousin or maiden aunt or nephew who happens to be living and working as part the household, and probably some of the children as well. The next year, or whenever the fabric stash ran out, the lord would arrange to get another large quantity of suitable fabric, which might easily have been a different color this time around. This detail runs counter to the impression a lot of people have of lords always clothing their retainers in their heraldic colors. It would generally have been obvious to locals that a person was a member of a particular household, because everyone would know that Lord So-and-So's retainers were all wearing orange (or whatever) that year. Thus you'll see references in literature or documents to identifying a person as Lord So-and-So's man because of the color of his clothing. However, the color would most likely have nothing to do with Lord So-and-So's actual heraldic device. The reference to someone clothing his household in "green" could have been a quote from some document, with green having no real significance save that that was the color in hand ("item: sixteen bolts of green wool for livery"). However, if it's from a literary manuscript, it might have a rhetorical or symbolic implication, as green had a number of overtones in literature for much of the Middle Ages. If that's the case, it wouldn't necessarily be a good reflection of what an actual household head might have done in choosing the year's livery fabric. There have been volumes written on why Robin Hood made a point of dressing his men in Lincoln green -- was it a cheap fabric, an expensive one, a reference to their outlaw status or forest dwelling, etc. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 21:26:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9R1Q3qi004391 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:26:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R1PX4a018075 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:25:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R1POa9006166; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:25:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m23.mx.aol.com (imo-m23.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R1PMa9006116 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:25:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Chindora@aol.com) Received: from Chindora@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.65.36b733aa (3850) for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:25:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Chindora@aol.com Message-ID: <65.36b733aa.2eb052f5@aol.com> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:25:09 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: opening tombs To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5000 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 10/26/2004 4:10:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time, gailscott@eos.net writes: If you need to ask for other opinions before you post your own, perhaps this is a topic you should not bring up. I have to say that I respect the original poster's position that presenting her opinion first sets the general tone for the correspondence. I think that her way of forming her request was justified and do not think that she was trying to hide or to make anyone feel uncomfortable. My own answer to the question is that I do not believe that the dead should be disturbed solely for the purpose of studying their raiment. I know that for some cultures it is beyond a simple taboo for the remains which have been buried to be moved. I realize that there are going to be some circumstances where it is unavoidable, as in the moving of graves which has already been mentioned, or natural disaster, which too has already been mentioned, but I believe that as much as possible the religious beliefs of the deceased should be given more weight than our own hunger to learn more about how their undies were stitched together. It is a fact that with as many graves as there are in this planet that there are going to be times when they will be disturbed. When this happens, I feel it is an opporturnity for education, but I feel that it should be handled with the dignity and respect that such a task demands. On the recent Medici Crypt show, I noted that the staff was almost reverent in their treatment of the remains and felt that this was very appropriate. It was gratifying to see the solemn manner in which the remains were reinterred, and I felt that there was no doubt that the researchers never forgot that these were not just dried up old bones they were dealing with, but had been very alive, vibrant people. That said, if I were to be dug up 500 years from now, I can only imagine what a row it would cause when it was discovered that I was wearing clothes from an era 400 years previous to when I supposedly died. ;-) ~Kimberley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 21:28:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9R1SIou004409 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:28:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R1Rm4a018252 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:27:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R1Rma9007260; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:27:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grunt15.ihug.co.nz (grunt15.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.62]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R1Rka9007155 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:27:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from p9-max8.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.204.73] by grunt15.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CMcb8-0000hB-00; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:27:35 +1300 Message-ID: <001701c4bbc4$26703b10$49ccadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <0D3431E0FD777844A4ED9507E4D698D90D27A4@incoming.sigenetics.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: a medieval livery question Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:27:39 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > This is probably not quite what you're looking for, but it might help. There is a reference in Mary Stella Newton's _The Dress of the Venetians, 1495-1525 _ to the well-off Venetians simply buying lots of the same fabric to cloth their entire household. It might be a different fabric every year, but it sounded like everyone in the household got clothed in the same stuff. > -sunny I can very nearly do that;) I've been gifted 21 drops of 7m lengths of dark green velveteen;) It was a stage curtain in its former life, and knowing a few very simple tricks this will be some really spiffy fabric once it's been washed and dried;) But it's rather musty smelling now because of the sheer size of the fabric and the fact it's been in storage for a while. I've been joking that I could start a household in my group in the SCA;) michaela http://glittersweet.com/greenvelveteen.jpg (that's the stuff on the left hand side, on a regular single bed. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 22:29:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9R2TdJl004803 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:29:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R2T44a022791 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:29:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R2Sra9039417; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:28:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9R2Spa9039363 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:28:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m08.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABAZ8A2NA3FME2J for (sender ); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:08:12 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/Ojz6lf4qoZJgekoM+YFIzsM= Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KAWQ94PX; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:07:36 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:05:05 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: a medieval livery question Message-ID: <20041026.190705.3348.1.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-ContentStamp: 2:3:4294001414 X-MAIL-INFO: 3ed1b9f4447499c58451c4855564496d65410c05809064d920f511a9ed95a9b4e1ed5495545475690459401db0799124a491f9d424dda4dd X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I've been gifted 21 drops of 7m lengths of dark green velveteen;) 'Drops'? Yummy fabric! =) Arlys ________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/ month - visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 22:43:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9R2hS8u004875 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:43:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R2gp4a023960 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:42:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R2gma9046549; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:42:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R2gjaA046481 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:42:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i9R2ojpW025769 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:50:46 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: opening tombs Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:56:29 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <20041026.182453.-709889.4.Seamstrix@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <20041026.182453.-709889.4.Seamstrix@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200410262256.29326.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 26 October 2004 7:24 pm, seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > Personally, I have no problem with investigating graves to glean whatever > information we can from what remains inside. I agree completely with this, especially because I believe that the real strides in costume history in the next several decades are going to come through analysis of archaeological remains. > The crucial element is the > respect for the remains of the person. I agree that respect for human remains are critical, but I don't think it's the only issue. The other issue is respect for the feelings of the living. It's obvious what that means when the question is whether it is appropriate to exhume the remains of an individual whose close relatives are still alive. It's less obvious when the remains in question were those of individuals hundreds of years dead. Sometimes, exhuming the remains--for whatever reason--offends those who believe themselves to be of the same "tribe" or nation as the dead. In the US, Indian tribes have protested when archaeologists have sought to examine the remains of Indians who have been even accidentally exhumed. My belief is that it is best not to disturb the graves of the dead for archaeological purposes unless those of the living with the strongest interest in the remains is consulted first. You suggest that it is best that "the remains are put back pretty much as they were found after the tests and such are over." However, if that test were strictly applied, we would not have the ancient/medieval/etc jewelry and other non-human contents of graves to study, create replicas of and so forth. Where do you draw the line? Is it sufficient to put the human remains "back pretty much as they were found" without the grave goods? (I suspect if you could somehow asked the deceased themselves they would likely give you the equivalent of "heck, no!" as a response). What if the artifacts are destroyed, in whole or part, during the testing? What if the human *remains* are destroyed, in whole or part, during the testing? What then? By the way, I don't think skeletons (which is all most human remains will amount to if the grave is more than a hundred years old) are terribly gross--though handling them would probably feel odd to most of us. -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 23:10:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9R3AbPS005019 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 23:10:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R39s4a025810 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:09:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R39na9060112; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:09:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grunt9.ihug.co.nz (grunt9.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.51]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R39ka9060079 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:09:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from p15-max8.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.204.79] by grunt9.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CMeC0-0000kB-00; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:09:45 +1300 Message-ID: <001f01c4bbd2$6b91cca0$4fccadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20041026.190705.3348.1.Cley@juno.com> Subject: Green velveteen Re: [h-cost] RE: a medieval livery question Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:09:48 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > I've been gifted 21 drops of 7m lengths of dark green velveteen;) > > 'Drops'? They were a curtain.. You pay by "drop" when getting curtains made...;) Slight missuse of the term but eh;) > Yummy fabric! =) Oh yes it is:) And I have many cunning plans to make from it;) Lady M as portrayed by Ellen Terry and painted by Sargent (but without the beetle wings.. probably will stamp the velveteen though) More Spanish Court gear.. probably very early 17thC though, as in a painting by Pantoja de la Cruz Flemish Tapestry style with hangling sleeves (with slits to put arms through) Nuernberg woman on her way to a ball as sketched by Duerer (with the hanging sleeves) And I'm sure much more;) Including (I hope) the robes in the final scene of Dracula worn by Mina (as played by Winona Ryder) or possibly the green pegnoir from Gone With the Wind.. minus much of the decoration;) And maybe gift some away, and make people my minions;) Ermm.. householders;) michaela de bruce http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 23:15:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9R3Fr5Y005044 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 23:15:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R3FJ4a026395 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:15:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R3FGa9065607; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:15:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grunt1.ihug.co.nz (grunt1.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.41]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R3FEa9065579 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:15:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from p15-max8.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.204.79] by grunt1.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CMeHI-0001ql-00; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:15:13 +1300 Message-ID: <002501c4bbd3$30760130$4fccadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <19a.2b3bb12f.2eafa59e@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] the Jane Grey pic Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:15:18 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Ya'll are just going to laugh at me, I know it, but I will admit that when I > first saw this pic of Jane Grey that we are currently discussing, my > immediate thought was that it was not a period piece, but one from a later time. I > still believe that, but since ya'll are sure it is authentic to the period, I > will concede that I made a snap judgement and happily embrace this lovely > portrait for what it is. No laughing, I believe it's from a later date too. Not sure how late, but they did a very good job of capturing much of what is familiar with tudor dress and portraiture. It's the folds of her skirt as well as the soft focus that make me believe it is later. But this stage, most of these dresses are very flat at the front, at least in portraits anyway. There are some images I can recall that do show pleats at the side.. but they seem more regimented than this. In colour it seems a bit too soft. But then again there are some portraits that I've seen that have just seemed so anachronistic until I saw a much better scan. And at least one has gripped my heart for the look in the sitter's eyes. One of those was a small portrait by Barthel Bruyn. So my gut feeling is that this is a very good copy, but am perfectly happy to find that it's authentic. In fact I think it would be marvelous to be wrong in this instance. michaela de bruce http://glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 23:17:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9R3HfjD005052 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 23:17:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R3H14a026545 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:17:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R3Gwa9066477; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:16:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R3GuaA066438 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:16:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i9R3GfdE006978 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:16:54 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: opening tombs and Medici Crypt program Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:28:38 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <200410262256.29326.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've thought of this several times over the past. A few years ago they were digging a tunnel for the local light rail through the West Hills region of Portland. Part of it went under a local cemetery (many, many yards down - nowhere near the level of the graves). Whine, whine, bitch and moan about the "desecration". Decided that was nonsense. Now we have the Kennewick Man. Dead these thousands of years; before Christ; before Alexander; before Otzi, the Iceman. Dead when sheep, dogs, and cats were first being domesticated. What we can learn from him needn't be extracted with anything less than reverence for a man who managed to make it to relative old age (40 or so) and lived through having a spear head in his thigh bone. Local indian tribes are having a hissy fit even though their ancestors probably weren't even in America at that time. Study of the skeleton would tell us something about that, and the word on the street is that the local tribes are actually afraid of that. As it is, the bones are in a box in a lock up, and a number have been "lost". No reverence, just a box to play tug-o-war with. I've wondered what I would think of someone digging me up and examining my DNA, clothing, etc. and have come to the conclusion I have no problem with it, because I don't believe I'll care. More importantly I thought how I would feel if my parents, whom I loved dearly, were so exhumed. As long as their bodies were treated with respect and something actually learned I would have no problem there either. I would have a problem with grave-robbing where they were dug up and torn apart for their wedding rings, collectable tie or stick pins as has happened for centuries (the last Medici grave) and is happening now in Iraq. Separate Topic: Did anyone else feel frustrated with the crypt opening in that the program seemed to be so incomplete? Big deal! They opened the tombs, but there were no results really. They didn't find a sword cut on one of them, but that didn't really show he hadn't been stabbed since the relavant bone seemed to be missing. They didn't do or have the results of any testing, etc. I'm just glad that those who opened Eleonora's tomb in the 1800's took such care. It sounds like the 1940's people despoiled the bodies (cutting the flesh off!) just to prove some hair brained theory! Now THAT I find reprehensible - to destroy something and not even have the decency to publish what they found. Typical of way too much archeology even today. (Kathleen Kenyon died before she published much of her dig information from Jericho. She might as well have taken a bulldozer to the site since the destruction is complete and no knowledge gained either way.) Regina _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Oct 26 23:50:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9R3ouDF005176 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 23:50:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R3ns4a028856 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:49:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R3nla9083392; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:49:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net (cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.226]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R3nja9083364 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:49:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hardcorps@earthlink.net) Received: from thecount.psp.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.78.22]) by cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CMeoj-0001iE-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:49:45 -0700 Message-ID: <15176465.1098848985248.JavaMail.root@thecount.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:49:45 -0600 (GMT-06:00) From: Frank and Tracy Thallas To: Historical Costume Subject: OT Archaeology shows (was:RE: [h-cost] Re: opening tombs and Medici Crypt program Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I did - was like ordering a sandwich and getting only the bread. I wonder if they didn't get results of tests in time, or that info wasn't considered important enough to pass on, or ? I suppose there's only so much that can be crammed into what - 45 minutes with commercials? It's terrible to think how much has been lost - mummies burned for train fuel, artifacts vanishing into private collections, remains hacked to bits to prove theories. But then again, even bad archaeology saves SOMETHING when the bulldozers or the floodwaters are coming... Liadain Separate Topic: Did anyone else feel frustrated with the crypt opening in that the program seemed to be so incomplete? Big deal! They opened the tombs, but there were no results really. They didn't find a sword cut on one of them, but that didn't really show he hadn't been stabbed since the relavant bone seemed to be missing. They didn't do or have the results of any testing, etc. I'm just glad that those who opened Eleonora's tomb in the 1800's took such care. It sounds like the 1940's people despoiled the bodies (cutting the flesh off!) just to prove some hair brained theory! Now THAT I find reprehensible - to destroy something and not even have the decency to publish what they found. Typical of way too much archeology even today. (Kathleen Kenyon died before she published much of her dig information from Jericho. She might as well have taken a bulldozer to the site since the destruction is complete and no knowledge gained either way.) Regina _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 00:02:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9R42UsM005223 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 00:02:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R41w4a000432 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:01:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R41oa9089924; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:01:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R41haA089831 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:01:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i9R49mNh027633 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 00:09:49 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: opening tombs and Medici Crypt program Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 00:15:32 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200410270015.32330.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/548/Sat Oct 23 18:50:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 26 October 2004 11:28 pm, Wanda Pease wrote: [lots of snipping} >Now THAT I find > reprehensible - to destroy something and not even have the decency to > publish what they found. Typical of way too much archeology even today. > (Kathleen Kenyon died before she published much of her dig information from > Jericho. She might as well have taken a bulldozer to the site since the > destruction is complete and no knowledge gained either way.) I doubt Ms. Kenyon planned to die when she did. :-) Now if she had merely squirreled away the material she collected in the dig without trying to prepare any of it for publication, I would agree with you. -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 00:26:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9R4Q7Jf005413 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 00:26:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R4PF4a003633 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:25:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R4P7a9003158; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:25:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (e-smtp.socket.net [216.106.88.132]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R4P5a9003139 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:25:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2435A2C5CA for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 23:25:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t1p385.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.131]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 5B5B7C570 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 23:25:02 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Bullion thread Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 23:25:06 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <20041026.141631.4008.0.Cley@juno.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO sounds right if not the spell. :) De -----Original Message----- Krennick? Arlys _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 00:27:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9R4RIC0005424 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 00:27:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R4Qo4a003813 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:26:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R4Qna9004000; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:26:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R4QMa9003716 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:26:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (c-24-21-147-231.client.comcast.net [24.21.147.231]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i9R4QEg22431 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 00:26:14 -0400 Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:23:59 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: opening tombs and Medici Crypt program Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <05F21BC4-27D0-11D9-A367-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday, October 26, 2004, at 08:28 PM, Wanda Pease wrote: [snip] > [snip] Now we have the Kennewick Man. > Local indian tribes are having a hissy fit even though > their ancestors probably weren't even in America at that time. [more > snip] Ok, um, man has been in the Americas for up to 30-40,000 years depending on whose theory you subscribe to. Kennewick Man *IS* the local Native Americans' ancestor, even tho not a likely direct lineage of the Yakama, Nez Perce, Colville or the other two regional tribes whose names escape me. To say that the tribes are having a "hissy fit" negates their beliefs in how the dead should be treated. Being the writers of History does not make that history correct. There were many waves of settlement in the Americas, Kennewick Man belongs to a middle period. Personally, I'm all for studying the Kennewick Man, and any other find that comes along that can be shown to have a reasonable dis-connect from modern tribes. I'm in the "of two minds" camp. I wish to honor the dead (while respecting the beliefs of the locals) while wishing to know more about them. It's truly a conundrum. If you are at all interested, there is a bill sponsored by Colorado Sen. Ben Nighthorse Campbell moving through the Congress that could put Kennewick Man (and many many more finds) out of reach of scientists for good. S. 2843 inserts two words into NAGPRA; "or was" which means that any remains currently "or was" connected with modern tribes can be repatriated under the act. If you feel strongly, contact your Congress-people and let your views be known. It's passed out of committee and will go to the floor, but I don't know when. I've contacted mine. Just my tuppence. Life is a pendulum and it swings to and fro. Right now it's fro-ing for all it's worth. :D (To think that I used to party mere feet from where the skeleton was found is boggling) > Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com I think, therefore I'm dangerous. I'll be Post-Feminist in a Post-Patriarchy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 00:44:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9R4iapU005504 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 00:44:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R4hr4a004774 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:43:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R4hna9012381; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:43:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tonnant.concentric.com (tonnant.concentric.com [207.155.248.171]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R4hla9012355 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:43:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) Received: from Julie (66-105-235-51-sd-02.cvx.algx.net [66.105.235.51]) by tonnant.concentric.com id AAA05962; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 00:43:44 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.17] From: "Julie" To: Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:46:14 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: <200410262120.i9QLJvaB048492@net.indra.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] help with British terms X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you. I was guessing muslin or at least that's what I was going to use. Some other kind person answered that vilene is a brand name for fusible interfacing. I'm doing an Elizabethan style embroidery with silk fabric and silk threads. I don't want to use modern interfacing. What else might have been used in period? Any guesses on what contact is? This is from "An Elizabethan Christmas" by Sheila Marshall. "Contact and calico are used when creating needlelace or punto in aria. The contact plastic adheres to the calico and creates a 'fabric' not unlike the parthment used for this purpose by the Elizabethans." Thanks! Julie >>What is calico? I know it as a printed fabric from the 1800's, but that >>can't be right in this context. > >They say calico where Americans say muslin, as in the bleached/unbleached >stuff, not as in the fine stuff that English Regency dresses might >be made of. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 01:08:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9R58W4h005655 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 01:08:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R57u4a006045 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 23:07:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R57na9023189; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 23:07:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R57laA023167 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 23:07:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i9R57YdE021630 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:07:46 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: opening tombs and Medici Crypt program Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:19:30 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <200410270015.32330.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Grin! > I doubt Ms. Kenyon planned to die when she did. :-) > > Now if she had merely squirreled away the material she collected > in the dig > without trying to prepare any of it for publication, I would > agree with you. I doubt that she "planned" to either. However, what she did was dig, and dig, and dig without putting her notes in any kind of order. She was notorious for "keeping it all in her head". When the dark angel came for her I'm sure she was trying to waive him off until she got one more pot cleaned up. :-) The stuff is largely there, but the context is destroyed completely, and there aren't even notes as to what level they came from. She is simply one of the most famous. It is bad enough that several countries now require digs be published before another is started. Archeologists who don't publish don't get to dig any more. At least they do keep the pottery as intact as they can, which can't be said for most bulldozers! Regina _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 01:13:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9R5DhFe005673 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 01:13:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R5DA4a006288 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 23:13:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R5D7a9025599; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 23:13:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net (cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.226]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R5D1a9025552 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 23:13:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hardcorps@earthlink.net) Received: from thecount.psp.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.78.22]) by cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CMg7G-0001ox-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:12:58 -0700 Message-ID: <9639346.1098853978431.JavaMail.root@thecount.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 23:12:58 -0600 (GMT-06:00) From: Frank and Tracy Thallas To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] help with British terms Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This quote reminded me of some directions I saw once for making a certain kind of needle-lace (can't remember the name). The pattern was drawn on tracing paper which was pinned to a firm-weave fabric. Heavy "base" threads were sort of couched to this fabric through the paper, outlining and connecting the motifs, and the the needle-lace pattern stitches were worked over (and attached to) these threads to fill in the pattern. When the pattern was complete, the backing fabric and paper were snipped away. Maybe "contact" is something like clear Contact paper, and used for the same purpose? Though I don't get why use plastic instead of paper of some sort- seems it would be harder to remove.. Liadain Any guesses on what contact is? This is from "An Elizabethan Christmas" by Sheila Marshall. "Contact and calico are used when creating needlelace or punto in aria. The contact plastic adheres to the calico and creates a 'fabric' not unlike the parthment used for this purpose by the Elizabethans." Thanks! Julie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 01:29:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9R5TBSI005747 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 01:29:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R5Se4a007110 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Oct 2004 23:28:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R5SJa9032422; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 23:28:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R5SEaA032380 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 23:28:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i9R5S2dE029617 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:28:14 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: opening tombs and Medici Crypt program Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:39:58 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <05F21BC4-27D0-11D9-A367-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Althea, Where are you getting the 30-40,000 years for man in the Americas? I honestly want to know because all I have seen seems to be in the 10,000 -15,000 range. I may be way behind on the recent finds however! I come from the Kennewick region and the Indian beliefs that forbid the disturbance of graves among these specific tribes seems to be of very recent and political vintage. This is not to say that the local tribes all over Oregon and the rest of the Americas haven't been treated terribly when it comes to the proper respect for their dead!! However, it seems that the fame of this particular find has been a bandwagon to jump on to beat the drums for Indian Rights. Again, not a bad thing in itself, but I have a problem with it when it destroys something valuable to make a point. Reburying the skeleton in some "secret place" would be destroying it. It's important to realize that not all Indian tribes have a problem with archeology and disinterment. The tribes are as different as the tribes of Europe. Maybe even more so. I think it's important for us to know as much about the cultures as possible to get rid of the back of the mind stereotype of the Native Americans as savages dragging around skin tents (VERY sophisticated skin tents!), or dirt scratching peasants. (Yes, I'm aware these are completely false stereotypes, but the more of the cultures we can present, the more respect they engender. Regina Romsey "You're only jealous because the voices only talk to me!" > Ok, um, man has been in the Americas for up to 30-40,000 years > depending on whose theory you subscribe to. Kennewick Man *IS* the > local Native Americans' ancestor, even tho not a likely direct lineage > of the Yakama, Nez Perce, Colville or the other two regional tribes > whose names escape me. To say that the tribes are having a "hissy fit" > negates their beliefs in how the dead should be treated. Being the > writers of History does not make that history correct. There were many > waves of settlement in the Americas, Kennewick Man belongs to a middle > period. > > Personally, I'm all for studying the Kennewick Man, and any other find > that comes along that can be shown to have a reasonable dis-connect > from modern tribes. I'm in the "of two minds" camp. I wish to honor > the dead (while respecting the beliefs of the locals) while wishing to > know more about them. It's truly a conundrum. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 02:21:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9R6Lw00012161 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 02:21:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R6L44a010203 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 00:21:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R6Kra9054606; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 00:20:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R6Kpa9054552 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 00:20:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (c-24-21-147-231.client.comcast.net [24.21.147.231]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i9R6Kjs12989 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 02:20:45 -0400 Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 23:18:29 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: opening tombs and Medici Crypt program Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <05084996-27E0-11D9-A367-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO *laughs* You want citations? Can I get them to you in a few days? I'm in a crunch of a few projects. I seem (off the top of my head) to remember something about finds in Terre del Fuego being dated to that time period. I'm perfectly amenable to being wrong. :D I will see if I can find my sources or let you know if I"m totally off my rocker. The problem with being a student is eventually all the stuff you read starts to bleed out your ears. I understand the total confusion on this subject. I want to support Indian rights but I also just want to *know*. I will get back to you in a few days. Do you want it private or posted to the list? be well, Althea On Tuesday, October 26, 2004, at 10:39 PM, Wanda Pease wrote: > Althea, > > Where are you getting the 30-40,000 years for man in the Americas? I > honestly want to know because all I have seen seems to be in the > 10,000 -15,000 range. I may be way behind on the recent finds however! > I come from the Kennewick region and the Indian beliefs that forbid > the > disturbance of graves among these specific tribes seems to be of very > recent > and political vintage. This is not to say that the local tribes all > over > Oregon and the rest of the Americas haven't been treated terribly when > it > comes to the proper respect for their dead!! However, it seems that > the > fame of this particular find has been a bandwagon to jump on to beat > the > drums for Indian Rights. Again, not a bad thing in itself, but I have > a > problem with it when it destroys something valuable to make a point. > Reburying the skeleton in some "secret place" would be destroying it. > It's important to realize that not all Indian tribes have a problem > with > archeology and disinterment. The tribes are as different as the > tribes of > Europe. Maybe even more so. I think it's important for us to know as > much > about the cultures as possible to get rid of the back of the mind > stereotype > of the Native Americans as savages dragging around skin tents (VERY > sophisticated skin tents!), or dirt scratching peasants. (Yes, I'm > aware > these are completely false stereotypes, but the more of the cultures > we can > present, the more respect they engender. > > Regina Romsey > "You're only jealous because the voices only talk to me!" > > >> Ok, um, man has been in the Americas for up to 30-40,000 years >> depending on whose theory you subscribe to. Kennewick Man *IS* the >> local Native Americans' ancestor, even tho not a likely direct lineage >> of the Yakama, Nez Perce, Colville or the other two regional tribes >> whose names escape me. To say that the tribes are having a "hissy >> fit" >> negates their beliefs in how the dead should be treated. Being the >> writers of History does not make that history correct. There were >> many >> waves of settlement in the Americas, Kennewick Man belongs to a middle >> period. >> >> Personally, I'm all for studying the Kennewick Man, and any other find >> that comes along that can be shown to have a reasonable dis-connect >> from modern tribes. I'm in the "of two minds" camp. I wish to honor >> the dead (while respecting the beliefs of the locals) while wishing to >> know more about them. It's truly a conundrum. >> > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com I think, therefore I'm dangerous. I'll be Post-Feminist in a Post-Patriarchy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 04:23:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9R8Nshn017957 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 04:23:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R8NE4a016296 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 02:23:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R8N5a9007349; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 02:23:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R8N3a9007160 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 02:23:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i9R8Mga26384.; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:22:42 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:22:42 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:22:30 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] help with British terms Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> jtknits@jtknits.cts.com 27/10/2004 05:46:14 >>> >Any guesses on what contact is? This is from "An Elizabethan >Christmas" by Sheila Marshall. "Contact and calico are used when >creating needlelace or punto in aria. The contact plastic adheres to the >calico and creates a 'fabric' not unlike the parthment used for this >purpose by the Elizabethans." I'm completely ignorant of these techniques, but presumably they create an openwork fabric and the base fabric is eventually discarded? It sounds as though the author does mean what we familiarly call "sticky-back plastic". _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 05:58:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9R9wCqt006737 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 05:58:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R9vc4a021577 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 03:57:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R9vSa9046808; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 03:57:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from alpha2.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (alpha2.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.0.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9R9vQa9046765 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 03:57:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:57:21 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: RE: [h-cost] comparing and sleeves was: image of Jane Grey? To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3C06@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] comparing and sleeves was: image of Jane Grey? Thread-Index: AcS7fvaF4epl5xPISuqk42laZSzKlAAixm1w content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.20 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > What has caught my attention is in the portrait of E, the way > the left sleeve lays on top of the false sleeve. Is this > indication of a stiff false sleeve or where the false sleeve > ends? Also, the ratio of chemise sleeve does not seem to > match the cuff ruffle. Was there false chemise sleeves added > to the false sleeves? In J the cuff ruffle material does not > seem to match the chemise sleeve material. In Elizabeths one, the puffs through the false sleeve are false (look closely at the wrist of her left hand - you can see the end of another sleeve between the false sleeve and her wrist ruffle. There are pictures of Mary in this style where the puffs of sleeve are very obviously flat pieces of blackworked fabric that have been sewn onto the outer surface of the false sleeve. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 06:10:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9RAAfOB006872 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 06:10:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RA9u4a022285 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 04:09:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RA9pa9051986; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 04:09:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.254.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RA9na9051959 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 04:09:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:02:35 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: RE: [h-cost] Help with British Terms To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3C07@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Help with British Terms Thread-Index: AcS7fvaF4epl5xPISuqk42laZSzKlAAjOZoQ content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.20 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > What is vilene? Brand-name interfacing, either iron on/fusible or sew-in > What is contact? I don't think it's like the U.S. sticky > Contact paper. Can't imagine that with embroidery. Can't help you there. > What is calico? I know it as a printed fabric from the > 1800's, but that can't be right in this context. Bleached or unbleached calico....Americans call it "muslin" Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 06:11:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9RABdxg006880 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 06:11:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RAB64a022343 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 04:11:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RAB4a9052578; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 04:11:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.254.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RAAia9052420 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 04:10:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:10:01 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: RE: [h-cost] Crypts and Costume Research (Sort of Off Topic) To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3C08@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Crypts and Costume Research (Sort of Off Topic) Thread-Index: AcS7o3EaGOavZFFtT+iE+iNGSULyQwAaRevQ content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.20 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > After reading the various e-mails for the last couple weeks > about extant clothing and such, I am wondering where other > people stand on the subject of opening tombs/crypts to study > Textiles/Costumes from earlier eras. I would really like to > get other opinions, before I post my own. A lot of archaology, when it comes down to it, is "grave-robbing", why should textile aspects of it be classified any differnetly. Since I am a firm believer in the "once a person is dead, what you do with the body has no relevence" viewpoint, I'm all for it. Once a person is dead, they're beyond caring what you do with the container that they inhabited when they were alive. Other people with different beliefs bay get uptight about it however especially if the person died recently enough to have still-living relatives. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 06:14:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9RAE0mx006908 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 06:14:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RACA4a022499 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 04:12:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RACAa9053195; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 04:12:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RABpaA052993 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 04:11:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i9RA8QTA016999 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 06:08:26 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 06:08:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <417F7465.7070507@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 06:11:49 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Mummies not fuel was: Re: OT Archaeology shows (was:RE: [h-cost] Re: opening tombs and Medici Crypt program References: <15176465.1098848985248.JavaMail.root@thecount.psp.pas.earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <15176465.1098848985248.JavaMail.root@thecount.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Frank and Tracy Thallas wrote: > It's terrible to think how much has been lost - mummies burned for train fuel, http://www.straightdope.com/columns/020222.html Excerpt: The story isn't that Egyptians use mummies to heat their food now, it's that they used them in the 19th century to fuel their locomotives. We owe this wonderful conceit to Mark Twain, who in The Innocents Abroad (1869) ... -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent We would not [monitor the election of] a country that had election laws like ours, where every precinct, every voting place can have a separate kind of voting mechanism, and where the interpretation of what is a good vote or a bad vote depends, almost exclusively, on local officials' prejudices. -- The Carter Center _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 06:26:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9RAQ92O007016 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 06:26:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RAPN4a023333 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 04:25:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RAPJa9059267; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 04:25:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from alpha2.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (alpha2.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.0.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RAPHa9059245 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 04:25:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:19:43 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Crypts and Costume Research (Sort of Off Topic) To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3C09@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Crypts and Costume Research (Sort of Off Topic) Thread-Index: AcS7z2ixM77TgoaiR2qXp6+3iKC78wAPtiyw content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.20 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > As for the deceased's spirit--the spirit is gone. According to your > religious beliefs (if any) you can argue about where (if > anywhere) the spirit went. But it's definitely no longer in the body. > > An enormous amount of information about older cultures has been gained > from excavating tombs and from bodies found when excavating other > structures. The living can benefit a great deal from this information. > The dead won't be any better off one way or the other. > > I'd be thrilled if someone opened up hundreds more > ancient-through-Renaissance tombs with clothing in relatively good > condition and made detailed studies on it. While my first reaction is > that I'd rather someone else unwound the shroud, I suppose I'd get used > to it. Couldn't agree more Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 07:44:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9RBiFXd007503 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 07:44:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RBhG4a029053 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 05:43:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RBh7a9093675; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 05:43:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp809.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp809.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.199]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9RBh4a9093616 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 05:43:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp809.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Oct 2004 11:42:59 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041027124151.01457d30@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:43:16 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] buying images from V&A In-Reply-To: <0a9901c4bbb3$24de6030$0400a8c0@compaqub> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 18:25 26/10/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Is anyone familiar with buying images of items in V&A's collection? Could >you tell me about the process, cost, formats available, etc? Off-list is >fine, but others may be interested. Either I'm blind, or their website has >no information other than an email link! (Yep, I emailed. Impatient!) According to a contact at the V and A "V&A publications, you need to check with V&A Enterprises >first. Try Jo Prosser at j.prosser@vam.ac.uk . If not the right >person, she can direct you." She says she is not sure as she always uses the shop!! Hope this helps. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 08:08:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9RC8DoQ007581 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:08:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RC7d4a004529 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 06:07:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RC7aa9004498; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 06:07:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RC7XaA004453 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 06:07:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i9RC7KdH017354 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 05:07:32 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: opening tombs and Medici Crypt program Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 05:19:15 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <05084996-27E0-11D9-A367-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Althea, Dealer's choice about the citations since Native American isn't really in the scope of this list. Being a student, you are probably deep into term right now. Lol about trying to remember where you have seen a particular piece of information. The more I read, the more trivia ends up in my brain without the tag on it that says where I read it! I want to make very plain that I'm honestly asking for knowledge that I don't have, much like asking for documentation for an interesting item in an A&S display, not as a snide "well Prove It"! One of the things that I think the SCA should take a lot of credit for is the dissemination of knowledge over the last 30 years. Thanks for your efforts! Regina Romsey "The work of our Laurels will astonish people a century from now; the deeds of our knights will be forgotten in five years; and nobody knows what the Pelicans have done." Sir Alan Culross > > *laughs* You want citations? Can I get them to you in a few days? > I'm in a crunch of a few projects. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 08:09:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9RC9Ma8007584 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:09:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RC8h4a004710 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 06:08:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RC8ga9005031; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 06:08:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RC8QaA004860 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 06:08:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i9RC4wTA017528 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:04:58 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:04:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <417F8FB5.1070802@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:08:21 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] buying images from V&A References: <5.1.0.14.2.20041027124151.01457d30@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20041027124151.01457d30@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On a trip to London several years ago, I went to their slide catalog room and bought enlargements. At that point, the process was to go yourself, so you could choose which ones you wanted. For example, I was interested in the Devonshire Hunting Tapestries, of which there are four; there were at least 5 different images of each of them, probably more. Detail shots, views of the backside, etc. Then I signed something saying that I wasn't going to publish those photos, ever, and paid them a lot of money, and they had the prints done up and sent to me later. I think the cost was over $200 for four prints, and they weren't large -- maybe 8x10 or so. A friend gave them to me as a wedding present. There would be, I expect, a large number of people who would like to have a poster-sized version of one of the Devonshire Tapestries, but at the time I was there, they did not offer a way to do poster-style reproductions, just the film/print sort from their large format negatives. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent We would not [monitor the election of] a country that had election laws like ours, where every precinct, every voting place can have a separate kind of voting mechanism, and where the interpretation of what is a good vote or a bad vote depends, almost exclusively, on local officials' prejudices. -- The Carter Center _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 08:29:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9RCTRAH007675 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:29:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RCRd4a008959 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 06:27:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RCRZa9013717; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 06:27:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RCRWa9013655 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 06:27:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-8.13) id A42A18A60068; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:27:22 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.113 ([209.131.81.113] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 27 Oct 04 12:27:21 -0000 Message-ID: <007f01c4bc20$4efd1240$715183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] help with British terms Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:27:20 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO By any chance, might the product "Sulky"fall into this category; particularly the wash away variety. I have directions from an old copy of "Threads" that show how to use it to make a modern 'point d'aria lace.? It looks something like stitch witchery, but comes in sheets. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 4:22 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] help with British terms > > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby > > >>> jtknits@jtknits.cts.com 27/10/2004 05:46:14 >>> > >Any guesses on what contact is? This is from "An Elizabethan > >Christmas" by Sheila Marshall. "Contact and calico are used when > >creating needlelace or punto in aria. The contact plastic adheres to > the >calico and creates a 'fabric' not unlike the parthment used for > this >purpose by the Elizabethans." > > I'm completely ignorant of these techniques, but presumably they create > an openwork fabric and the base fabric is eventually discarded? It > sounds as though the author does mean what we familiarly call > "sticky-back plastic". > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 08:39:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9RCdvFW007749 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:39:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RCdP4a011538 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 06:39:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RCdLa9019138; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 06:39:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.200]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9RCdIa9019070 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 06:39:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Oct 2004 12:39:13 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041027133629.01457e70@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:39:30 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] help with British terms In-Reply-To: <007f01c4bc20$4efd1240$715183d1@rmitchellras> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:27 27/10/2004 -0400, you wrote: >By any chance, might the product "Sulky"fall into this category; >particularly the wash away variety. I have directions from an old copy of >"Threads" that show how to use it to make a modern 'point d'aria lace.? It >looks something like stitch witchery, but comes in sheets. > > > >Any guesses on what contact is? This is from "An Elizabethan > > >Christmas" by Sheila Marshall. "Contact and calico are used when > > >creating needlelace or punto in aria. The contact plastic adheres to > > the >calico and creates a 'fabric' not unlike the parthment used for > > this >purpose by the Elizabethans." > > > > I'm completely ignorant of these techniques, but presumably they create > > an openwork fabric and the base fabric is eventually discarded? It > > sounds as though the author does mean what we familiarly call > > "sticky-back plastic". This is not a term I have come across. There is "Stitch'n'Tear" which is used for applique, and is the D*v*l to get off, and apparently there is a soluble version, which is also a pain to get off. If you are doing "punto in aria" which I believe is another name for Reticella, I think you could probably use tracing paper, or greaseproof paper, Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 08:58:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9RCwuw9007855 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:58:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RCwH4a013674 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 06:58:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RCw7a9027912; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 06:58:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m25.mx.aol.com (imo-m25.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RCw4a9027851 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 06:58:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.14.36d412de (4312) for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:57:54 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <14.36d412de.2eb0f552@aol.com> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:57:54 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] help with British terms To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10718 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 10/27/2004 8:29:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rmitchell@washjeff.edu writes: > might the product "Sulky"fall into this category; > particularly the wash away variety Sulky is a brand name--they make several kinds of stabilizers, including wash away, tear away, and, I think, paint on. But I haven't used any for a long time, so I can't vouch for how easy they are to remove. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 09:01:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9RD1PLh007878 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:01:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RD0q4a013833 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 07:00:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RD0pa9029165; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 07:00:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.201]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RD0fa9029012 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 07:00:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Aspasia1@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 69so715836wri for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 06:00:33 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=nlmCjTBlmWGBZFoVIAQPtukS1r0RS5RYCAqXmbCHjZW2jU/xbVVmy2se8xEtmnF6cf559tne8rJ7zl9+SV9h8nHLBVCAH6tVrVf9EBF6b24gkmhMADSOAmSGKyJXjmMP+3k3NTlyaXMYxTSiND0vWMqOUJmTlgLB5l+6v2SB9FM= Received: by 10.38.102.69 with SMTP id z69mr803949rnb; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 06:00:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.67.15 with HTTP; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 06:00:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4ef943ba04102706001fe74ec0@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:00:32 -0400 From: Bonnie Booker To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] help with British terms In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20041027133629.01457e70@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <007f01c4bc20$4efd1240$715183d1@rmitchellras> <5.1.0.14.2.20041027133629.01457e70@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > This is not a term I have come across. There is "Stitch'n'Tear" which is > used for applique, and is the D*v*l to get off, and apparently there is a > soluble version, which is also a pain to get off. If you are doing "punto > in aria" which I believe is another name for Reticella, I think you could > probably use tracing paper, or greaseproof paper, When I do it, I trace the design on paper, then put a plastic baggie on top. I sew the lace thread down with sewing thread along the design. This goes through plastic and paper. I work the design, then turn it over and cut the thread on back. The lace just lifts off the plastic and no mess. -- Aspasia Moonwind _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 10:49:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9REn0Wn008547 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:49:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9REm44a024976 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:48:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RElta9099191; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:47:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9RElqa9099078 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:47:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m08.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABAZ9PG5AUGK9DS for (sender ); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 07:46:51 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OtTP3NNLkkFM/KQ7hsOW/lo= Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KAX4PSRG; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 07:46:34 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 07:34:59 -0700 Subject: Re: OT Archaeology shows (was:RE: [h-cost] Re: opening tombs and Medici Crypt program Message-ID: <20041027.074519.4060.1.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-3,6-7,11-18,20-21,23-25 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-ContentStamp: 9:4:2497200655 X-MAIL-INFO: 3b91f0e4a06d9070592dc0c98df9450050a955fd3124f9f47104b5799d017914059d80018080c441211d85443d0d81a5958129ada5cd95cd X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: cley@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm glad I wasn't the only one frustrated by that program. I wish they'd waited to complete their findings before doing the show--it was painfully lacking. One of the major points of any thesis is to CHALLENGE it and support it with substantive proofs, not attempt to "prove" it with repetitive gobbledegook. And that bit on Eleanor drove me nuts--"she had one child, then another, then another"--ok, we get it already!! My succinct little historian's brain was saying, "quit eating time, and why not just tell us she had 11 kids?!" Eergh. Arlys Regina writes: > Did anyone else feel frustrated with the crypt opening in that the > program seemed to be so incomplete? Big deal! They opened the tombs, but > there were no results really. They didn't find a sword cut on one of > them, but that didn't really show he hadn't been stabbed since the relavant > bone seemed to be missing. They didn't do or have the results of any > testing, etc. ________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/ month - visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 11:13:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9RFDLO8008707 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:13:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RFCV4a007308 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:12:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RFCQa9018817; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:12:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.mc.surewest.net (smtp1.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9RFCNa9018778 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:12:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from unicorn@surewest.net) Received: (s3-31476); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:08:36 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO Cyhiraeth) (69.4.130.105) by smtp1.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:08:35 -0700 Message-ID: <007001c4bc37$5fe62d00$6601a8c0@Cyhiraeth> From: "Joan Broneske" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1D0F9734.4B33830E.0BD9917F@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Crypts and Costume Research (Sort of Off Topic) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:12:28 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-TST: smtp1 SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=69.4.130.105 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My thoughts are that after a certain amount of time has gone by (say 150-200 years), then it would be okay, as long as it is done in an atmosphere of reverence and respect, and that everything is put back as it was, with perhaps a little ceremony; after all, we are no longer in our bodies at that time and they are just empty shells (that is if you believe in an afterlife/soul, etc.) I believe that the knowledge that could come from studying them is invaluable in many ways; historically, forensically, culturally, etc. It always fascinates me when they do the reconstructions on skulls - it just brings the person to life. I believe this kind of study actually grants the person (or people) a form of immortality, because only when you are forgotten, are you truly dead. P.S., About Lizzie Borden, I don't think you are sick at all, It would be fascinating to have them studied forensically and would also give an answer to an age old question, perhaps letting them and Lizzie finally rest in peace. . /' // . // |\//7 /' " \ . . . | ( \ '._ | '._ ' '. ' / \'-'_---. ) ) . :.' | \ | . . . . ' . | | | \^ /_-': / / | | '\ .' / /| | \\ | \ \( ) // / \ | | // / L! ! // / Joan Broneske [_] L[_| unicorn@surewest.net ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 1:23 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Crypts and Costume Research (Sort of Off Topic) > Since I have gotten some chiding from friends (No Fran, you are not the > only person who asked me why I didn't post my opinion, I decided to go > ahead and do so now. {smile}) > Like Bjarne, I have a hard time being able to cut my feelings on the > subject down to one side, it really is a hard question to answer. > Being an amateur Historian and sometime History Major, I find that opening > tombs/crypts is a very important part of studying the past. We know so > much more now about civilizations and catastrophes than we would have if > we hadn't done this sort of research. > Just like the part of me that wants to know how each seam was put into a > dress or each stitch in a needle worked piece was laid... Yes, part of me > wants to dig up Lizzy Borden's parents to try to do a modern forensic > study of them and find out if she really did commit double murders {sick > huh?}. Or do DNA testing of each and every member of past royal houses to > see if there was ever an "indiscretion" put onto a throne. > However, the other part of me wants to say let the dead lie. Part of me, > even though I don't believe the person still exists in the body, doesn't > want anyone handling, moving, or studying a dead body and/or their > personal possessions that were laid the rest with them. > One of my specialties when I was in school was Eqyptology. I have never > been to Egypt, and I don't know if I will be able to go in my lifetime. > However, as much as I love ancient Egypt, it really upsets me when I go to > some place like the British Museum and see items taken from the tombs. In > the same respect, I don't like it when someone opens a crypt just to study > the person inside and then seal it up again. They haven't removed > anything, just opened it, taken some notes and sealed it again. That > shouldn't bother me... At least that's what I tell myself, when I am > staring at the Rosetta Stone or reading through a text on some historical > burial practice. > However, the truly confusing part of the question, what do you do when the > bodies/tombs/crypts are mistakenly found or opened under extenuating > circumstances. Circumstances like when the Two Princes (or bodies of what > might have been the two princes) were found in the staircase that was > being resettled in the Tower of London or when work needs to be done on a > crypt that was damaged in a fire. This is the time I have the hardest > trouble deciding how I feel about it. > I live across the street from an old cemetery (well old for California) > and there are stories of the coffins or bodies floating when the rivers > would flood. The last time this happened, the floating coffins were > opened for examination (as is often the case since it is very difficult to > tell where each body goes) Add to this, most of the coffins were falling > apart and the coffins were going to need to be replaced. Therefore, the > bodies were taken for examiniation... The people that examined them > didn't pull them from their crypts or from the ground, they were brought > out of their tombs by Mother nature. Every body was given a new casket > and plunged back into the ground when the note taking was done. But part > of my brain has problems with the fact that the coffins were opened in the > first place. I don't know what to do with the Two Princes, I don't think > they should have been left in the staircase, but neither do I think they > should have been moved. > I guess was I am trying to say is that, my answer to the question is not > cut and dry. There is no simple answer to it. My thirst for knowledge > (it may sound melodramatic, but I am told I am a rather melodramatic > person) makes me overlook what I consider to be an unacceptable practice. > However, the part of me that doesn't like the opening of crypts causes me > to question if I should pay money for a book based on excavation finds > from crypts and tombs. > In other words, I don't know how I feel about it, and I guess that is why > I am so interested in other people's opinions on the subject. Somewhere > deep down, I think I am also looking to hear other opinions, so that I can > better understand my own. > Kit > In a message dated 10/26/2004 2:37:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > Kitsune242@aol.com writes: >>Greetings All!>>After reading the various e-mails for the last couple >>weeks about extant clothing and such, I am wondering where other people >>stand on the subject of opening tombs/crypts to study Textiles/Costumes >>from earlier eras. I would really like to get other opinions, before I >>post my own. However, if you feel this is not something that belongs on >>this list, but you wish to give me your opinions anyway, please feel free >>to contact me in private.>>Thanks in advance,>>-- >Kit>If you walk a mile >>in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - Kenneth Cole > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 11:24:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9RFOWon008742 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:24:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RFNU4a012656 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:23:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RFNLa9028033; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:23:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.mc.surewest.net (smtp1.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9RFNHa9027959 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:23:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from unicorn@surewest.net) Received: (s3-4353); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:19:30 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO Cyhiraeth) (69.4.130.105) by smtp1.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:19:29 -0700 Message-ID: <00c201c4bc38$e62f8180$6601a8c0@Cyhiraeth> From: "Joan Broneske" To: "Historical Costume" References: <05F21BC4-27D0-11D9-A367-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: opening tombs and Medici Crypt program Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:23:23 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-TST: smtp1 SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=69.4.130.105 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>Kennewick Man *IS* the local Native Americans' ancestor, even tho not a >>likely direct lineage of the Yakama, Nez Perce, Colville or the other two >>regional tribes<< Last I heard, from the information they had, was that he *wasn't* related to the local tribes, and that was part of why it was decided to allow study of the bones, and that he may be related to the Ainu of Japan. . /' // . // |\//7 /' " \ . . . | ( \ '._ | '._ ' '. ' / \'-'_---. ) ) . :.' | \ | . . . . ' . | | | \^ /_-': / / | | '\ .' / /| | \\ | \ \( ) // / \ | | // / L! ! // / Joan Broneske [_] L[_| unicorn@surewest.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Althea Turner" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 9:23 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: opening tombs and Medici Crypt program > > On Tuesday, October 26, 2004, at 08:28 PM, Wanda Pease wrote: > [snip] > >> [snip] Now we have the Kennewick Man. > >> Local indian tribes are having a hissy fit even though >> their ancestors probably weren't even in America at that time. [more >> snip] > > Ok, um, man has been in the Americas for up to 30-40,000 years depending > on whose theory you subscribe to. Kennewick Man *IS* the local Native > Americans' ancestor, even tho not a likely direct lineage of the Yakama, > Nez Perce, Colville or the other two regional tribes whose names escape > me. To say that the tribes are having a "hissy fit" negates their beliefs > in how the dead should be treated. Being the writers of History does not > make that history correct. There were many waves of settlement in the > Americas, Kennewick Man belongs to a middle period. > > Personally, I'm all for studying the Kennewick Man, and any other find > that comes along that can be shown to have a reasonable dis-connect from > modern tribes. I'm in the "of two minds" camp. I wish to honor the dead > (while respecting the beliefs of the locals) while wishing to know more > about them. It's truly a conundrum. > > If you are at all interested, there is a bill sponsored by Colorado Sen. > Ben Nighthorse Campbell moving through the Congress that could put > Kennewick Man (and many many more finds) out of reach of scientists for > good. S. 2843 inserts two words into NAGPRA; "or was" which means that > any remains currently "or was" connected with modern tribes can be > repatriated under the act. If you feel strongly, contact your > Congress-people and let your views be known. It's passed out of committee > and will go to the floor, but I don't know when. I've contacted mine. > > Just my tuppence. Life is a pendulum and it swings to and fro. Right now > it's fro-ing for all it's worth. :D > > (To think that I used to party mere feet from where the skeleton was found > is boggling) > > >> Althea Turner > *** althea@alfalfapress.com > *** http://www.alfalfapress.com > > I think, therefore I'm dangerous. > > I'll be Post-Feminist in a Post-Patriarchy > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 11:48:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9RFmTTI008856 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:48:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RFlg4a019763 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:47:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RFlZa9048607; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:47:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from bellerophon.concentric.com (bellerophon.concentric.com [207.155.248.156]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RFlWa9048539 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:47:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) Received: (root@localhost) by bellerophon.concentric.com id LAA17691; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:47:29 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.17] Message-ID: <200410271547.LAA17691@bellerophon.concentric.com> From: Julie To: Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:47:29 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <200410271513.i9RFDPaB019631@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i9RFlWa9048539 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] help with British Terms X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hmmmmmmmm........maybe it does mean the wash away interfacing. I think I have other needle lace instructions that call for it. Thanks Julie > > By any chance, might the product "Sulky"fall into this category; > particularly the wash away variety. I have directions from an old copy of > "Threads" that show how to use it to make a modern 'point d'aria lace.? It > looks something like stitch witchery, but comes in sheets. > Kathleen > ----- Original Message ----- > > > Kate Bunting > > Library, University of Derby > > > > >>> jtknits@jtknits.cts.com 27/10/2004 05:46:14 >>> > > >Any guesses on what contact is? This is from "An Elizabethan > > >Christmas" by Sheila Marshall. "Contact and calico are used when > > >creating needlelace or punto in aria. The contact plastic adheres to > > the >calico and creates a 'fabric' not unlike the parthment used for > > this >purpose by the Elizabethans." > > > > I'm completely ignorant of these techniques, but presumably they create > > an openwork fabric and the base fabric is eventually discarded? It > > sounds as though the author does mean what we familiarly call > > "sticky-back plastic". _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 11:53:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9RFrLVd008887 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:53:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RFpN4a020214 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:51:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RFpBa9051561; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:51:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.196]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RFp8a9051435 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:51:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goddessandqueen@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 69so768547wri for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:50:59 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=eKs4WCumwmMZGGSmB3aSLhiH3vsrcu/tjsQPzrqMy4XlnQSDAW0MtVyiVTxcbTomxWzOBtfx4pdYt/NW/AfXf+TCE58Asdq+nwvbwjJGKc2x0ACzr03wn2atLvDPR/IVJTloZv/Fjr8TIXBKd7k5sibqEi899BhQo3LeqEbvrRY= Received: by 10.38.76.80 with SMTP id y80mr879059rna; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:50:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.81.72 with HTTP; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:50:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6107d9c104102708505508f41@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:50:59 -0500 From: pixel To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: a medieval livery question In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <0D3431E0FD777844A4ED9507E4D698D90D27A4@incoming.sigenetics.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:24:12 -0500 (CDT), Robin Netherton wrote: > > On Tue, 26 Oct 2004, Sunny Buchler wrote: > > > > My SO remembers a reference somewhere about a medieval lord who > > > clothed all his retainers in green. Unfortunately he can't remember > > > where he read it, which is hampering my efforts to use the reference > > > in my current research. Does it sound familiar to anyone? > > > This is probably not quite what you're looking for, but it might > > help. There is a reference in Mary Stella Newton's _The Dress of the > > Venetians, 1495-1525 _ to the well-off Venetians simply buying lots of > > the same fabric to cloth their entire household. It might be a > > different fabric every year, but it sounded like everyone in the > > household got clothed in the same stuff. > > There are similar references in, I think, Christopher Dyer's "Standards of > Living in the Later Middle Ages." Dyer examines a lot of household > inventories and account books to track expenditures for various categories > of goods, including clothing. What I remember from the passage in question > was that the household head (in this particular case) would buy some large > quantity of a particular fabric -- whatever seemed like a good value at > the time -- to make the clothing for a large proportion of the household > members in a given year. The recipients were those people who would be > given a new outfit annually as part of their pay or living arrangement; > not just servants and squires and such, but also the occasional cousin or > maiden aunt or nephew who happens to be living and working as part the > household, and probably some of the children as well. The next year, or > whenever the fabric stash ran out, the lord would arrange to get another > large quantity of suitable fabric, which might easily have been a > different color this time around. The specific reference has something to do with people thinking it was terribly extravagant, being green and all. I've got "Standards of Living..." and I don't think this particular bit of info is in there. This is why I've started writing down the sources of useful references--although my SO's profession is photographic, his memory is not. > > This detail runs counter to the impression a lot of people have of lords > always clothing their retainers in their heraldic colors. It would > generally have been obvious to locals that a person was a member of a > particular household, because everyone would know that Lord So-and-So's > retainers were all wearing orange (or whatever) that year. Thus you'll see > references in literature or documents to identifying a person as Lord > So-and-So's man because of the color of his clothing. However, the color > would most likely have nothing to do with Lord So-and-So's actual heraldic > device. I wonder if that's one of those ideas that Hollywood helps reinforce, because the color someone is wearing is a lot more obvious on film than if said someone is wearing Lord Thus-and-Such's household badge. > > The reference to someone clothing his household in "green" could have been > a quote from some document, with green having no real significance save > that that was the color in hand ("item: sixteen bolts of green wool for > livery"). However, if it's from a literary manuscript, it might have a > rhetorical or symbolic implication, as green had a number of overtones in > literature for much of the Middle Ages. If that's the case, it wouldn't > necessarily be a good reflection of what an actual household head might > have done in choosing the year's livery fabric. There have been volumes > written on why Robin Hood made a point of dressing his men in Lincoln > green -- was it a cheap fabric, an expensive one, a reference to their > outlaw status or forest dwelling, etc. > > --Robin That's why I want the original citation. If it's a reference to a real happening, then I can use it as an example for my social distinctions class and subsequent article. If it's a literary reference, then probably not. Many thanks, Pixel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 11:57:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9RFv7SE008909 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:57:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RFtL4a020551 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:55:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RFtEa9054776; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:55:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-118.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RFtAa9054668 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:55:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by mail.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A428425D5 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:25:12 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <417FC4CA.1060806@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:54:50 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: opening tombs References: <20041026.182453.-709889.4.Seamstrix@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <20041026.182453.-709889.4.Seamstrix@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > Personally, I have no problem with investigating graves to glean whatever > information we can from what remains inside. The crucial element is the > respect for the remains of the person. That's a key element for me too, respect for the remains. Part of that is waiting an arbitrarily 'decent' length of time after the burial. I would not, for example, be keen to support digs on graves from the last hundred years or so. I think it's up to the caretakers to decide if the reason is 'good enough' for opening a tomb, to study the remains for various scientific purposes, but unlike previous posters I think the study of textiles is a valid enough reason, especially given how fragile and perishable textiles can be compared to other grave goods. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 12:08:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9RG8uDM008975 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:08:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RG724a022059 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:07:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RG6pa9064317; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:06:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-118.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RG6ia9064175 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:06:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by mail.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7EE3425D5 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:36:46 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <417FC781.5010602@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:06:25 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: opening tombs and Medici Crypt program References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wanda Pease wrote: > > > Did anyone else feel frustrated with the crypt opening in that the program > seemed to be so incomplete? Big deal! They opened the tombs, but there > were no results really. I've come to expect that of most Discovery/ History channel type programming. >It sounds like the 1940's people despoiled the bodies (cutting the >flesh off!) just to prove some hair brained theory! Now THAT I find >reprehensible - to destroy something and not even have the decency to >publish what they found. I didn't get that impression at all. Just because the earlier research seems silly to us now doesn't mean it wasn't considered valid theory at the time and treated with the same seriousness as our current explorations. And while today we are very aware of the capabilities of genetic testing, it wasn't an option previously. I thought it was rather petty for the narrator to comment on the work of the anthropologists as if that field of study was somehow less valuable than another. Do we know for fact that the study was never published, or have we simply been unable to locate the obscure journal where it appeared? Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 12:39:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9RGdi9u009125 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:39:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RGcr4a025715 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:38:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RGcma9093090; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:38:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065d01.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065d01.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RGcaa9093022 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:38:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hardcorps@earthlink.net) Received: from bert.psp.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.78.217]) by pop-a065d01.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CMqom-00006i-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:38:36 -0700 Message-ID: <31571165.1098895116020.JavaMail.root@bert.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:38:35 -0600 (GMT-06:00) From: Frank and Tracy Thallas To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Mummies not fuel was: Re: OT Archaeology shows (was:RE: [h-cost] Re: opening tombs and Medici Crypt program Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks. I gotta stop buying what I see on "The Hitler Channel"... only that show claimed mummy-logs on European trains, and unravelled to add wrappings to paper in the US. Alledgedly why we have brown paper bags today... Liadain http://www.straightdope.com/columns/020222.html Excerpt: The story isn't that Egyptians use mummies to heat their food now, it's that they used them in the 19th century to fuel their locomotives. We owe this wonderful conceit to Mark Twain, who in The Innocents Abroad (1869) ... -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 12:47:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9RGlaKF009163 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:47:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RGje4a026355 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:45:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RGjXa9098522; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:45:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065d01.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065d01.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RGjLa9098342 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:45:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hardcorps@earthlink.net) Received: from bert.psp.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.78.217]) by pop-a065d01.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CMqvI-0002iy-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:45:20 -0700 Message-ID: <16212564.1098895520106.JavaMail.root@bert.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:45:20 -0600 (GMT-06:00) From: Frank and Tracy Thallas To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] help with British terms Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes- you end up with a lace. The background is completely stripped away. (Another sort is "aemilia ars", popular during the Arts and Crafts period). I've done a very tiny bit, and I can see how the plastic might be helpful in letting your needle slide instead of digging into the base fabric where you don't want, but seems it would be much harder than paper/parchment to get rid of when you're done! Liadain -----Original Message----- From: Kate M Bunting Sent: Oct 27, 2004 2:22 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] help with British terms Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> jtknits@jtknits.cts.com 27/10/2004 05:46:14 >>> >Any guesses on what contact is? This is from "An Elizabethan >Christmas" by Sheila Marshall. "Contact and calico are used when >creating needlelace or punto in aria. The contact plastic adheres to the >calico and creates a 'fabric' not unlike the parthment used for this >purpose by the Elizabethans." I'm completely ignorant of these techniques, but presumably they create an openwork fabric and the base fabric is eventually discarded? It sounds as though the author does mean what we familiarly call "sticky-back plastic". _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 12:57:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9RGv2SI009186 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:57:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RGu74a027396 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:56:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RGtva9007208; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:55:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RGtlaA007066 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:55:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-21.sonic.net [209.148.113.21]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i9RGthcC002845 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:55:44 -0700 Message-ID: <417FD311.8080807@lavoltapress.com> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:55:45 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: opening tombs References: <20041026.182453.-709889.4.Seamstrix@juno.com> <417FC4CA.1060806@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: <417FC4CA.1060806@reddawn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I may be off in left field here, but I _think_ I've read about forced burial-moving situations in the local paper. I thought, if the burial was within a few generations, that the local authorities looked for living descendants and contacted them about what should be done with the body. If Great-Grandmother gets washed out in a storm, presumably the immediate descendents would be the ones who care about where and how the body is reinterred, and whether it is acceptable for someone to study it first, if anyone wants to. Fran > That's a key element for me too, respect for the remains. Part of that > is waiting an arbitrarily 'decent' length of time after the burial. I > would not, for example, be keen to support digs on graves from the > last hundred years or so. I think it's up to the caretakers to decide > if the reason is 'good enough' for opening a tomb, to study the > remains for various scientific purposes, but unlike previous posters I > think the study of textiles is a valid enough reason, especially given > how fragile and perishable textiles can be compared to other grave goods. > > > > Dawn > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 12:59:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9RGxZaZ009205 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:59:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RGwk4a027725 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:58:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RGwha9009492; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:58:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav3.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.107]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RGv8a9008156 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:57:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:57:01 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by BAY9-DAV3.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:56:31 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.0.14.2.20041027133629.01457e70@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] help with British terms Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:57:05 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Oct 2004 16:57:01.0069 (UTC) FILETIME=[FA4333D0:01C4BC45] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > This is not a term I have come across. There is "Stitch'n'Tear" which is > used for applique, and is the D*v*l to get off, Some kinds of tear-away interfacing work well, some don't. Don't discard them all just because you worked with the wrong kind once, my sewing teacher used to have great stuff that would really tear away. Of course, you're not supposed to get it out from under the stitches, you're just supposed to remove the extra all around. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 13:01:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9RH1ida009225 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:01:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RH104a027984 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:01:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RH0wa9011350; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:00:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav19.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.123]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RH08a9010602 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:00:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:00:02 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by BAY9-DAV19.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:59:11 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20041027.074519.4060.1.Cley@juno.com> Subject: Re: OT Archaeology shows (was:RE: [h-cost] Re: opening tombs andMedici Crypt program Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:59:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Oct 2004 17:00:02.0684 (UTC) FILETIME=[668373C0:01C4BC46] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > One of the major points of any thesis is to CHALLENGE it and support it > with substantive proofs, not attempt to "prove" it with repetitive > gobbledegook. > > And that bit on Eleanor drove me nuts--"she had one child, then another, > then another"--ok, we get it already!! My succinct little historian's > brain was saying, "quit eating time, and why not just tell us she had 11 > kids?!" Aah, so I wasn't the only one who felt like it was a show built for very, very slow-thinking people... Like they were trying to stretch 5 minutes of info to make 45 minutes... And kept repeating, repeating, repeating... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 14:26:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9RIQN9q009887 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:26:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RIPR4a008320 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:25:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RIPIa9082804; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:25:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RIPDa9082720 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:25:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be1f.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.31]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id BF5305EE03A for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:25:10 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <005c01c4bc52$53581c40$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:25:22 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] opening tombs X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here in Copenhagen we have a discoteque lying just over an old medieval graveyard. They have made examinations there, still i cant cope with the idea that there is going to be so much noise all night long over such a place. But i guess that happens many places. That is how it is when you have an old place. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 14:40:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9RIdukq010053 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:40:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RIcl4a010078 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:38:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RIcfa9094097; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:38:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp812.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp812.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.170.82]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9RIcca9094062 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:38:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net) Received: from unknown (HELO lazear1) (cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net@67.118.230.145 with login) by smtp812.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Oct 2004 18:38:37 -0000 Message-ID: <012701c4bc53$e885d950$0701a8c0@lazear1> From: "Cabbage Rose Costumes" To: "Historical Costume" References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3C06@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Portrait of Anna Maria Luisa de'Medici Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:36:43 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If any of you marvelous scholars can assist me in my quest I would be forever grateful. I was recently in Italy, and in the Uffizi Galleries. In the halls outside the main rooms there are many portraits. There was one of a stunning lady in a red gown, approximately 1720-30 I was informed by the docents that it is of Anna Maria Luisa de'Medici. (I'm completely guessing the portrait's date based on her life and the age of the woman in the portrait). The dress was just magnificent, but one is not allowed to take even no flash photos in the Uffizi. There was no book I could find that contained the portraiture in any of the outer halls. (Boy what I wouldn't give, as it was all royalty and many many portraits that are not generally in art books). If you more knowledgeable types are aware of a book that contains such portraits, specifically this one, or of a source for the portrait on line, I would appreciate being pointed in the right direction. I'm a huge fan of red, and I want to recreate this dress. I love the idea that she was the lady who willed all of the Medici's treasures to the City of Florence in perpetuity. What a gal. Thanks kindly angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none: be able for thine enemy rather in power than use, and keep thy friend under thy own life's key: be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..." W. Shakespeare _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 14:48:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9RImK12010127 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:48:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RIlX4a010988 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:47:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RIlSa9000969; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:47:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RIlOa9000913 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:47:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be1f.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.31]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id B5E2A5EE016 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:47:23 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <00a801c4bc55$6ecbd270$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3C06@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> <012701c4bc53$e885d950$0701a8c0@lazear1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Portrait of Anna Maria Luisa de'Medici Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:47:38 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Angela, Not because i know anything about it, but would there not be a book about the galleries? Could it be possible that it would have this picture in it? There must be a book about the Uffizi Gallery, i know that there are books about the Louvre in Paris. I also admired a wonderfull portrait from 18th century at the Pallazo Pitti in Florence this summer, wich i never have seen before. Isnt it great that there still are many things to explore? Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cabbage Rose Costumes" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 8:36 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Portrait of Anna Maria Luisa de'Medici > If any of you marvelous scholars can assist me in my quest I would be > forever grateful. I was recently in Italy, and in the Uffizi Galleries. > In the halls outside the main rooms there are many portraits. There was > one of a stunning lady in a red gown, approximately 1720-30 I was informed > by the docents that it is of Anna Maria Luisa de'Medici. (I'm completely > guessing the portrait's date based on her life and the age of the woman in > the portrait). The dress was just magnificent, but one is not allowed to > take even no flash photos in the Uffizi. There was no book I could find > that contained the portraiture in any of the outer halls. (Boy what I > wouldn't give, as it was all royalty and many many portraits that are not > generally in art books). > > If you more knowledgeable types are aware of a book that contains such > portraits, specifically this one, or of a source for the portrait on line, > I would appreciate being pointed in the right direction. I'm a huge fan of > red, and I want to recreate this dress. I love the idea that she was the > lady who willed all of the Medici's treasures to the City of Florence in > perpetuity. What a gal. > > Thanks kindly > > angela > +++++ > Angela F. Lazear > Cabbage Rose Costumes > www.cabbagerosecostumes.com > Theatrical Costume Design > > "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none: > be able for thine enemy rather in power than use, > and keep thy friend under thy own life's key: > be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..." > W. Shakespeare > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 14:55:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9RItpN8010195 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:55:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RIt64a012039 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:55:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RIsba9006797; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:54:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.202]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RIsXa9006660 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:54:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jacquelinejbump@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 50so604433wri for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:54:28 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=DsRQeuNrJnHqoVk9hjzPumf0K8Dw7vPGE4nDKuzB5yZUhorDaGLdNtRGPSXWCwkI1Cs83a+So+fTPeTS3WRSeTiTRRdinMbzglGPuLMgPFM9FOxhu0jyEw0mT4CViEXiaL0WF7lrOpGA9ACEfpCcX4PDPmVQRPMD6xFZmCYSO7I= Received: by 10.38.79.70 with SMTP id c70mr1347566rnb; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:54:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.14.59 with HTTP; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:54:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4c5accc8041027115471c1ea5a@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:54:28 -0400 From: Jacqueline Johnson To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Portrait of Anna Maria Luisa de'Medici In-Reply-To: <012701c4bc53$e885d950$0701a8c0@lazear1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3C06@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> <012701c4bc53$e885d950$0701a8c0@lazear1> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://www.italiadonna.it/public/percorsi/biografie/imgs/004.jpg If it's the Medici woman I think it was she was the last survivor of the clan. You could also check the Virtual Uffizi and see if it's there http://www.arca.net/uffizi/ ============================ Italian Ladies 2005 Calendar http://www.lulu.com/kristalori http://kristalori.com http://snipurl.com/96f1 Dress Diaries http://snipurl.com/9bir That 70's Trailer ============================ On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:36:43 -0700, Cabbage Rose Costumes wrote: > If any of you marvelous scholars can assist me in my quest I would be > forever grateful. I was recently in Italy, and in the Uffizi Galleries. In > the halls outside the main rooms there are many portraits. There was one of > a stunning lady in a red gown, approximately 1720-30 I was informed by the > docents that it is of Anna Maria Luisa de'Medici. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 15:08:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9RJ8lqJ010350 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:08:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RJ6f4a013314 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:06:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RJ6Za9015940; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:06:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from lakermmtao02.cox.net (lakermmtao02.cox.net [68.230.240.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RJ6Va9015837 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:06:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from vmaa2@cox.net) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.10.139.124]) by lakermmtao02.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.04 201-2131-111-106-20040729) with ESMTP id <20041027190620.SZXZ20824.lakermmtao02.cox.net@VMAAHQ> for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:06:20 -0400 From: "Linda Rice" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Virginia 1830's- Workwoman's Guide Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:14:07 -0400 Message-ID: <043501c4bc59$2180fff0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20041022085812.00d2a820@pop.surewest.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just wanted to thank you guys for recommending this book- "A Workwoman's Guide". It arrived today, and I *love* it! I got a used hardback copy, in great shape. Man, _every_ period needs a book like this one! I've only skimmed through so far, (it's a pretty good sized book) but I can tell it's going to be an enormous aid in learning about a new period for me. I also discovered that Wal-mart sells its homespun cotton checks in natural looking colors for $2.00/yd. I'm seeing our docents and volunteer kids looking much, much better by summertime! Thanks again! ::Linda:: "Believe not because some old manuscripts are produced, believe not because it is your national belief, believe not because you have been made to believe from your childhood, but reason truth out, and after you have analyzed it, then if you find it will do good to one and all, believe it, live up to it and help others live up to it." -Buddha -----Original Message----- You might try looking at the Workwoman's Guide; it was originally published in 1838 by "A Lady" in England. There are many cap styles shown. The book is now available in paperback. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 15:26:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9RJQO8t010548 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:26:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RJKX4a015407 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:20:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RJKMa9026683; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:20:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RJKKa9026652 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:20:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.104] (pm7-104.eos.net [205.133.149.104]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9RJKGjE017554 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:20:17 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:15:27 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200410270244.i9R2i3aA047202@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: tombs, etc. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO on 10/26/04 10:44 Kimberly wrote: > That said, if I were to be dug up 500 years from now, I can only imagine > what a row it would cause when it was discovered that I was wearing clothes > from > an era 400 years previous to when I supposedly died. > > Ha ha ha! Kimberley, you made my day! Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 15:27:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9RJRw5r010560 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:27:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RJRI4a016158 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:27:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RJR8a9031864; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:27:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RJQtaA031663 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:27:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i9RJNTTA019953 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:23:29 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:23:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <417FF67D.7010100@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:26:53 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Mummies not fuel was: Re: OT Archaeology shows (was:RE: [h-cost] Re: opening tombs and Medici Crypt program References: <31571165.1098895116020.JavaMail.root@bert.psp.pas.earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <31571165.1098895116020.JavaMail.root@bert.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Frank and Tracy Thallas wrote: > Thanks. I gotta stop buying what I see on "The Hitler Channel"... only that show claimed mummy-logs > on European trains, and unravelled to add wrappings to paper in the US. Alledgedly why we have brown paper bags today... Goes to show they didn't do even the most basic of fact-checking. Lordy. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 15:40:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9RJeXaB010662 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:40:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RJe14a017402 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:40:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RJdua9041744; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:39:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065d01.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065d01.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RJdra9041702 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:39:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hardcorps@earthlink.net) Received: from bert.psp.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.78.217]) by pop-a065d01.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CMteD-0002yk-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:39:53 -0700 Message-ID: <6817981.1098905992939.JavaMail.root@bert.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:39:52 -0600 (GMT-06:00) From: Frank and Tracy Thallas To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Mummies not fuel was: Re: OT Archaeology shows (was:RE: [h-cost] Re: opening tombs and Medici Crypt program Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, we don't want to detract from the sensationalism with boring old facts, now do we? Liadain now morbidly wondering how fast a well-dried, linen-wrapped, resin-soaked mummy would burn.... Subject: Re: Mummies not fuel was: Re: OT Archaeology shows (was:RE: [h-cost] Re: opening tombs and Medici Crypt program Goes to show they didn't do even the most basic of fact-checking. Lordy. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 15:59:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9RJxdOv010826 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:59:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RJvZ4a019199 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:57:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RJvSa9055609; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:57:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail12.mdx.safepages.com (mail12.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.154.242]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RJvPa9055422 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:57:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail12.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id D4A83B7E6; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 19:57:16 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust6.tnt3.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.197.6]) by mail12.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id EFDD3B7D5 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 19:57:09 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <0b2701c4bc5f$2b314220$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] help with British terms Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:57:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Having messed around a bit with this sort of lace-making, where the fabric/parchemt/whatever is completely discarded, I have to say I love the idea of a disposable surface covered with contact plastic. With the paper and interfacing that I tried, I kept obliterating too much of the cartoon with my needle, and all the little tears my needle made in the paper got in the way and abraded the threads. A nice smooth surface for my needle (and later on, my scissors) sounds great! I bet it would also stabilize the couching threads, and keep the couched threads from moving around so much. Thanks for bringing this question to the list! =} -E House, gonna go play with that if I ever get through some of this ridiculous stack of projects... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 16:08:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9RK8kVd010899 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:08:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RK814a020203 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:08:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RK7va9063795; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:07:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm29.prodigy.net (ylpvm29-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RK5qa9062213 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:05:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-89-54.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.89.54]) by ylpvm29.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RK5nHa025886 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:05:51 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20041027130220.026d6958@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:04:17 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: [h-cost] Virginia 1830's- Workwoman's Guide In-Reply-To: <043501c4bc59$2180fff0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> References: <4.2.2.20041022085812.00d2a820@pop.surewest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I also discovered that Wal-mart sells its homespun cotton checks in >natural looking colors for >$2.00/yd. I'm seeing our docents and volunteer kids looking much, much >better by summertime! Some of that stuff is very non-colorfast. Wash it once before using it, especially the blue stuff. I've been using a yard of the blue to tint stuff for several washings now - yes, deliberately. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 16:09:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9RK9Nqp010902 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:09:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RK8f4a020285 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:08:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RK8da9064296; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:08:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm29.prodigy.net (ylpvm29-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RK5qa9062201 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:05:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-89-54.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.89.54]) by ylpvm29.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RK5nHY025886 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:05:50 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20041027125722.031a2ab0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:58:31 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] help with British terms In-Reply-To: References: <200410262120.i9QLJvaB048492@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >interfacing. I'm doing an Elizabethan style embroidery with silk fabric and >silk threads. I don't want to use modern interfacing. What else might have >been used in period? I seem to recall, from the Janet Arnold book with patterns, that stiff linen was used. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 16:37:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9RKbf9l011114 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:37:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RKas4a023455 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:36:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RKaia9086796; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:36:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9RKaea9086662 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:36:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m08.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABA2ABXSAPTAERS for (sender ); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:36:00 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OiUBvs1jaUaCT/Eu0sjvGcA= Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KAYQNTL9; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:35:33 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:11:28 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] help with British terms Message-ID: <20041027.133438.3952.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-3,5-23 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-ContentStamp: 9:4:4153301694 X-MAIL-INFO: 4fa9d049a48db5a999a42165352dd1d0d96540d160ed99d189211d3081304585347d3930b5a1b5411174ad349d11b9390034a1b9f06079b9050dc14d504dd5cd9081104d6470640995e9b490e09559106d9070592dc0c98df9450050a9356131b12d39496524741d6d542d4101d960d9a1f50da1f54d09f54d0941d4217d554038103819049d39253871d500e470e459f18d59f161f9f161e9d0b1a9512d315124242da431a4a4e1a0e49561ddedd440894140212189304130 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO tried waste canvas? Arlys On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:57:05 -0400 "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" writes: > > This is not a term I have come across. There is "Stitch'n'Tear" > which is > > used for applique, and is the D*v*l to get off, > > Some kinds of tear-away interfacing work well, some don't. Don't > discard > them all just because you worked with the wrong kind once, my sewing > teacher > used to have great stuff that would really tear away. Of course, > you're not > supposed to get it out from under the stitches, you're just supposed > to > remove the extra all around. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/ month - visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 17:00:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9RL0qvH011258 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:00:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RKxx4a026103 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:59:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RKxsa9005050; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:59:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RKxna9004873 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:59:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1CMutO-000Iv3-7g for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:59:38 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 21:58:18 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: opening tombs References: <65.36b733aa.2eb052f5@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <65.36b733aa.2eb052f5@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Chindora@aol.com wrote > > I >believe that as much as possible the religious beliefs of the deceased >should be >given more weight than our own hunger to learn more about how their undies >were stitched together. I had a (very irreverent) mental image of some poor chap in Valhalla, or Elysium, or any afterlife where they believed you needed grave goods to take with you and use, suddenly having his beaker go *pop* out of his hand, and his sword go *pop* from his belt, and his clothes..... :-0 !! Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 17:22:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9RLMSSx011360 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:22:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RLKv4a028214 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:20:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RLKpa9020922; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:20:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from lakermmtao08.cox.net (lakermmtao08.cox.net [68.230.240.31]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RLKla9020822 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:20:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from vmaa2@cox.net) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.10.139.124]) by lakermmtao08.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.04 201-2131-111-106-20040729) with ESMTP id <20041027212040.HKPR17598.lakermmtao08.cox.net@VMAAHQ> for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:20:40 -0400 From: "Linda Rice" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Virginia 1830's- Workwoman's Guide Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:28:15 -0400 Message-ID: <043f01c4bc6b$e18a5b40$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20041027130220.026d6958@mail.frys.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i9RLKla9020822 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Really! Well, that is certainly good to know! Just looking at it on the various bolts, it looks identical to what commonly gets sold through the specialty suppliers for 3 and 4 times the price. I guess for 2 bucks, I can afford to experiment. ;o) Thanks bunches! ::Linda:: "I was born not knowing and have only had a little time to change that here and there." -Richard Feynman -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of Carolyn Kayta Barrows Some of that stuff is very non-colorfast. Wash it once before using it, especially the blue stuff. I've been using a yard of the blue to tint stuff for several washings now - yes, deliberately. {I had written} >I also discovered that Wal-mart sells its homespun cotton checks in >natural looking colors for >$2.00/yd. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 17:47:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9RLlq5r011473 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:47:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RJ1M4a012863 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:01:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RJ1Ia9011809; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:01:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp810.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp810.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.170.80]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9RJ1Fa9011759 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:01:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net) Received: from unknown (HELO lazear1) (cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net@67.118.230.145 with login) by smtp810.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Oct 2004 19:01:14 -0000 Message-ID: <017301c4bc57$11357830$0701a8c0@lazear1> From: "Cabbage Rose Costumes" To: "Historical Costume" References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3C06@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk><012701c4bc53$e885d950$0701a8c0@lazear1> <00a801c4bc55$6ecbd270$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Portrait of Anna Maria Luisa de'Medici Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:59:20 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You are so sweet. As far as I could tell, the books in the gift shop specifically about the Uffizi, only contained the major works there, such as the Rafaels and the Botticellis. The Uffizi is so huge that many of the portraits are not considered "worthy" of mention. This one might be in a book, simply because of her legacy (she gave much of what is in the Uffizi to Florence, all of the de'Medici portraits, etc) but I was unable to find it in any of the books I saw there. a ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 11:47 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Portrait of Anna Maria Luisa de'Medici > Dear Angela, > Not because i know anything about it, but would there not be a book about > the galleries? Could it be possible that it would have this picture in it? > There must be a book about the Uffizi Gallery, i know that there are books > about the Louvre in Paris. > I also admired a wonderfull portrait from 18th century at the Pallazo > Pitti in Florence this summer, wich i never have seen before. > Isnt it great that there still are many things to explore? > > Bjarne > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cabbage Rose Costumes" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 8:36 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Portrait of Anna Maria Luisa de'Medici > > >> If any of you marvelous scholars can assist me in my quest I would be >> forever grateful. I was recently in Italy, and in the Uffizi Galleries. >> In the halls outside the main rooms there are many portraits. There was >> one of a stunning lady in a red gown, approximately 1720-30 I was >> informed by the docents that it is of Anna Maria Luisa de'Medici. (I'm >> completely guessing the portrait's date based on her life and the age of >> the woman in the portrait). The dress was just magnificent, but one is >> not allowed to take even no flash photos in the Uffizi. There was no >> book I could find that contained the portraiture in any of the outer >> halls. (Boy what I wouldn't give, as it was all royalty and many many >> portraits that are not generally in art books). >> >> If you more knowledgeable types are aware of a book that contains such >> portraits, specifically this one, or of a source for the portrait on >> line, I would appreciate being pointed in the right direction. I'm a huge >> fan of red, and I want to recreate this dress. I love the idea that she >> was the lady who willed all of the Medici's treasures to the City of >> Florence in perpetuity. What a gal. >> >> Thanks kindly >> >> angela >> +++++ >> Angela F. Lazear >> Cabbage Rose Costumes >> www.cabbagerosecostumes.com >> Theatrical Costume Design >> >> "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none: >> be able for thine enemy rather in power than use, >> and keep thy friend under thy own life's key: >> be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..." >> W. Shakespeare >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 17:48:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9RLmFk9011480 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:48:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RLlH4a000978 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:47:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RLl8a9040643; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:47:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from covert.brown-ring.iadfw.net (covert.brown-ring.iadfw.net [209.196.123.142]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RLl5a9040437 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:47:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lecachot@airmail.net) Received: from pppth08-604.ght.iadfw.net ([207.136.61.224] helo=hewlettt06rp0e) by covert.iadfw.net with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1CMveZ-0008Rs-Am for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:48:23 -0500 Message-ID: <00c001c4bc6e$fe1749a0$e03d88cf@hewlettt06rp0e> From: "Lee & Susan" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: tombs, etc. Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:50:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Actually, I've been threatening to do that for years :) Hopefully, some archaeology student in the future could get a thesis out of it. Susan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gail & Scott Finke" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 2:15 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: tombs, etc. > on 10/26/04 10:44 Kimberly wrote: > >> That said, if I were to be dug up 500 years from now, I can only imagine >> what a row it would cause when it was discovered that I was wearing >> clothes >> from >> an era 400 years previous to when I supposedly died. >> >> > Ha ha ha! Kimberley, you made my day! > > Gail Finke > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 18:03:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9RM3WBj011535 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 18:03:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RM2X4a002952 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:02:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RM2Qa9052337; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:02:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065d14.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065d14.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.252]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RM2Na9052298 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:02:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from madlystitching@earthlink.net) Received: from dialup-4.246.117.119.dial1.sanjose1.level3.net ([4.246.117.119]) by pop-a065d14.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CMvs6-0001bi-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:02:22 -0700 Message-ID: <41801A72.10502@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:00:18 -0700 From: Stephen Bergdahl User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.3 (Windows/20040803) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: opening tombs and Medici Crypt program References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wanda Pease wrote: >More importantly I thought how I would feel if my parents, whom I loved >dearly, were so exhumed. As long as their bodies were treated with respect >and something actually learned I would have no problem there either. I >would have a problem with grave-robbing where they were dug up and torn >apart for their wedding rings, collectable tie or stick pins as has happened >for centuries (the last Medici grave) and is happening now in Iraq. > > >Regina > Grave robbing is still a problem today. Not only modern graves, but very common are Civil War solders graves being dug up for buttons and other items. This got to be such a problem in one area that the local Civil War renactors started doing patrols. Caught one gentlemen just before he opened a coffin. Pity that tombstone fell on him, and broke both his legs. The police declared it an accident and shipped him off to jail. Karma can be a pain! Stephen Bergdahl _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 18:44:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9RMiuDK011705 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 18:44:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RMiI4a007264 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:44:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RMhga9083212; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:43:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from atlas.concentric.com (atlas.concentric.com [207.155.252.115]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RMhda9083150 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:43:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) Received: (root@localhost) by atlas.concentric.com id SAA04719; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 18:43:38 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.17] Message-ID: <200410272243.SAA04719@atlas.concentric.com> From: Julie To: Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:43:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <200410272102.i9RL1FaB006221@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/553/Tue Oct 26 16:05:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i9RMhda9083150 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] British Terms & lace making X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hmmm........that makes sense. Now to wrestle with my conscience and decide do I go for the best final project I can make or do I use period materials and methods and put up with a lesser result? Maybe do one flower petal with each method and decide from there . I know the "Nazis" of the club would rather see all period methods & materials. LOL Thanks for the great feedback on this! Julie **************************** Having messed around a bit with this sort of lace-making, where the fabric/parchemt/whatever is completely discarded, I have to say I love the idea of a disposable surface covered with contact plastic. With the paper and interfacing that I tried, I kept obliterating too much of the cartoon with my needle, and all the little tears my needle made in the paper got in the way and abraded the threads. A nice smooth surface for my needle (and later on, my scissors) sounds great! I bet it would also stabilize the couching threads, and keep the couched threads from moving around so much. Thanks for bringing this question to the list! =} -E House, gonna go play with that if I ever get through some of this ridiculous stack of projects _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 19:19:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9RNJcmV011825 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 19:19:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RNC658009877 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:13:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RMsNa9090491; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:54:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm43.prodigy.net (ylpvm43-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RMsLa9090459 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:54:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-62-39.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.62.39]) by ylpvm43.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RMsKow004932 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 18:54:20 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20041027155259.025c6d70@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:54:05 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] British Terms & lace making In-Reply-To: <200410272243.SAA04719@atlas.concentric.com> References: <200410272102.i9RL1FaB006221@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Hmmm........that makes sense. Now to wrestle with my conscience and >decide do I go for the best final project I can make or do I use period >materials and methods and put up with a lesser result? Maybe do one >flower petal with each method and decide from there . I know the >"Nazis" of the club would rather see all period methods & materials. LOL Do they call themselves Nazis? That term isn't period till like the 1930s. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 19:47:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9RNlUjO011887 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 19:47:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RNfu4a012388 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:41:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RNfoa9017714; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:41:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m17.mx.aol.com (imo-m17.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.207]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RNfla9017654 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:41:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Chindora@aol.com) Received: from Chindora@aol.com by imo-m17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.59.19165f07 (3924) for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 19:41:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Chindora@aol.com Message-ID: <59.19165f07.2eb18c2a@aol.com> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 19:41:30 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] British Terms & lace making To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5000 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 10/27/2004 4:19:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time, kayta@frys.com writes: Do they call themselves Nazis? That term isn't period till like the 1930s. Thank you Carolyn, I really needed that laugh. Bwahahahaha!!!!!!!! :) Kimberley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 19:58:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9RNwYRr011987 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 19:58:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RNvw4a013501 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:57:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RNvoa9025553; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:57:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RNvma9025521 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:57:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.99] (pm7-099.eos.net [205.133.149.99]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i9RNvbjE000676 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 19:57:41 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 19:52:39 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200410271805.i9RI5AaA066174@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Lizzy Borden X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The former FBI agent Mark Olshaker (sp? something like that) wrote an interesting book several years ago called "The Cases that Haunt Us." He looks at a couple of famous old murder cases as a modern forensic team would. I believe he concluded that Lizzie Borden did kill her parents, but I wouldn't swear to it. It was a fascinating book -- the chapter on Jack the Ripper was particularly good, though horribly disgusting. I had never heard exactly what the Ripper actually did, and I learned more than I wanted to know. But he has a very convincing solution for that one, which he claims was actually recorded at the time by the investigating police. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 20:40:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9S0egu8012157 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:40:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9S0e24a016692 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 18:40:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9S0dua9046055; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 18:39:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9S0dqaA046019 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 18:39:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-31.sonic.net [209.148.114.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i9S0doFM016940 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:39:51 -0700 Message-ID: <41803FD9.7010101@lavoltapress.com> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:39:53 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Faux fur trim X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Does anyone know who sells good faux fur trim online? The kind with finished selvages, that is you don't have to cut it out of faux fur garment fabric? Maybe 2-3 inches wide? I have nothing against real fur, but this stuff is easier to handle for what I want (which is to put it on the edges of a suede poncho). Thanks for any info. Fran Lavolta Press Two new books of 1870s and 1880s patterns! http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 20:45:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9S0jwP7012223 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:45:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9S0jJ4a017021 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 18:45:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9S0jDa9048410; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 18:45:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9S0j9a9048328 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 18:45:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gia_gavino@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.119 ([204.127.197.119]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <2004102800445101500hj5u9e>; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 00:45:04 +0000 Received: from [24.16.244.181] by 204.127.197.119; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 00:44:50 +0000 From: gia_gavino@comcast.net (Elena O'Tighearnaigh) To: h-costume@indra.com (Costume Historical), wyeworry@yahoogroups.com (Wyeworry Fun), blu-phoenix@comcast.net (Cliodhna), Antoinette@bowslaire.org (Antoinette Bowslaire), bowslairelist@yahoogroups.com (Bowslaire List), Reeds@baronyofaquaterra.org (Reeds Aquaterra) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 00:44:50 +0000 Message-Id: <102820040044.15274.418041020000C79400003BAA2200761438010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Sep 14 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: Z2lhX2dhdmlub0Bjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Actually seen at the UW Medical Center X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was coming back from the Court Cafe in the UW medical center when this notice about a scheduled Grand Round lecture caught my eye: "Looking up a Kilt" I'll give you 3 guesses what the Grand Round lecture was about... -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 20:50:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9S0otCw012274 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:50:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9S0oF4a017412 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 18:50:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9S0oDa9050767; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 18:50:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m17.mx.aol.com (imo-m17.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.207]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9S0oAa9050700 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 18:50:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from IceGirlNIN@aol.com) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-m17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.dd.181d683f (3842) for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:50:03 -0400 (EDT) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:50:03 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Faux fur trim To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5000 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 10/27/2004 8:40:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, fran@lavoltapress.com writes: Does anyone know who sells good faux fur trim online? The kind with finished selvages, that is you don't have to cut it out of faux fur garment fabric? Maybe 2-3 inches wide? I have nothing against real fur, but this stuff is easier to handle for what I want (which is to put it on the edges of a suede poncho). (_http://www.mjtrim.com/catalog/product.aspx?product=32006&variant=----01-ALL_ (http://www.mjtrim.com/catalog/product.aspx?product=32006&variant=----01-ALL) ) Well, this stuff has only a 1" wide selvage, but the fur itself is 1.5" wide. Comes in black, brown, and white (the white is rather temptingly pretty for ermine-trim..). Mind the wrap if there is any. Christine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 20:52:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9S0qJQV012283 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:52:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9S0pf4a017513 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 18:51:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9S0pba9051441; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 18:51:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.205]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9S0pXa9051377 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 18:51:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jacquelinejbump@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 44so124990wri for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:51:28 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=l4rPwUDOoeM9xaaoaKWpr+gkcMGOPQsidSi5UXsggN5SbWE5IR+snJ8qi/x0S7gAYf9L0/jC7LZ96fsiVsPf9a4t0x0tnLGXQhVfKslUS/rKTrzU3P2/4zfsyD6SPRUtwEqa/ArPA8DbLemOYh8jykIYHrbx1g/elJpPxB+djn0= Received: by 10.38.150.44 with SMTP id x44mr1542705rnd; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:51:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.14.59 with HTTP; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:51:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4c5accc8041027175111345882@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:51:28 -0400 From: Jacqueline Johnson To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Faux fur trim In-Reply-To: <41803FD9.7010101@lavoltapress.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <41803FD9.7010101@lavoltapress.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm not sure if they offer trims with their by the yard stuff but it can't hurt to ask them. I've found these two places my best source. http://www.fabfurs.com/index.asp (I like Fabfurs enough they are the only adverter on my home page) and my favorite for more outrageous furs: http://www.prefurs.com/index.asp Both offer really fantastic customer service and both go out of the way to help me when I need a fake fur for a piece of clothing. B~ ============================ Italian Ladies 2005 Calendar http://www.lulu.com/kristalori http://kristalori.com http://snipurl.com/96f1 Dress Diaries http://snipurl.com/9bir That 70's Trailer ============================ On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:39:53 -0700, Lavolta Press wrote: > Does anyone know who sells good faux fur trim online? The kind with > finished selvages, that is you don't have to cut it out of faux fur > garment fabric? Maybe 2-3 inches wide? > > I have nothing against real fur, but this stuff is easier to handle for > what I want (which is to put it on the edges of a suede poncho). > > Thanks for any info. > > Fran _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 22:35:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9S2ZId6013372 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 22:35:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9S2Ya4a025224 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:34:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9S2YNa9099577; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:34:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9S2YKaA099545 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:34:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i9S2Y7dE027206 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 19:34:19 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: opening tombs Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 19:46:01 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <417FD311.8080807@lavoltapress.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO When I lived in Germany in the 1980's and 90's you could go to the local churchyard and see all the headstones stacked against the walls. Evidently you only "rented" the plot for about 80-100 years. After that they re-rented the plot and re-used it. It makes sense to me after seeing the huge war cemeteries there from WW I and II. They cover acre after acre. Think of how many people have died there over the last 1000 years or so! You couldn't keep up the present American habit of one person to a grave forever and ever, amen! :-) When they made a city park out of the Pioneer graveyard in my home town, they moved almost every grave to another cemetery. There were still a few monuments there to play on when I was a child. We certainly weren't reverent, but we were a tribute to the efforts those people made in bringing life to the town. Wanda Pease/Regina Romsey "Life is not a journey to the Grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming --Wow! What A Ride!!" > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 23:20:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9S3KEif013926 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 23:20:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9S3FW4a028450 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 21:15:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9S3FPa9021053; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 21:15:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (e-smtp.socket.net [216.106.88.132]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9S3FMa9021028 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 21:15:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F9722C047 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 22:15:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (t2p437.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.217.183]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id A5B51C424 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 22:15:21 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] British Terms & lace making Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 22:15:29 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <200410272243.SAA04719@atlas.concentric.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i9S3FMa9021028 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Please forgive my denseness but I do not understand how the best final project conflicts with period materials. Please explain? De -----Original Message----- Hmmm........that makes sense. Now to wrestle with my conscience and decide do I go for the best final project I can make or do I use period materials and methods and put up with a lesser result? Maybe do one flower petal with each method and decide from there . I know the "Nazis" of the club would rather see all period methods & materials. LOL Thanks for the great feedback on this! Julie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Oct 27 23:57:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9S3vZsD014367 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 23:57:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9S3ux4a003304 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 21:57:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9S3uqa9043707; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 21:56:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9S3uoa9043650 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 21:56:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-8.13) id ADFB3C9400A2; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 23:56:43 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.108 ([209.131.81.108] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 28 Oct 04 03:56:43 -0000 Message-ID: <002301c4bca2$23d4f7e0$6c5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <417FC781.5010602@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: opening tombs and Medici Crypt program Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 23:56:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I watched a PBS piece this evening on the possible scientific cause (ergot?) for the weird symptoms of the 'victims' of Witches (Salem and others). The premise and the pursuit to solve the mystery were quite well done. This one has its better points. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 12:06 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: opening tombs and Medici Crypt program > Wanda Pease wrote: > > > > > > > Did anyone else feel frustrated with the crypt opening in that the program > > seemed to be so incomplete? Big deal! They opened the tombs, but there > > were no results really. > > I've come to expect that of most Discovery/ History channel type > programming. > > > > > >It sounds like the 1940's people despoiled the bodies (cutting the > >flesh off!) just to prove some hair brained theory! Now THAT I find > >reprehensible - to destroy something and not even have the decency to > >publish what they found. > > > I didn't get that impression at all. Just because the earlier research > seems silly to us now doesn't mean it wasn't considered valid theory at > the time and treated with the same seriousness as our current > explorations. And while today we are very aware of the capabilities of > genetic testing, it wasn't an option previously. I thought it was rather > petty for the narrator to comment on the work of the anthropologists as > if that field of study was somehow less valuable than another. > > Do we know for fact that the study was never published, or have we > simply been unable to locate the obscure journal where it appeared? > > > > > Dawn > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 28 00:08:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9S48GVh014473 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 00:08:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9S47g4a004465 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 22:07:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9S47aa9049614; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 22:07:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065d01.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065d01.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9S47Ya9049587 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 22:07:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from heather.jones@earthlink.net) Received: from h-69-3-233-221.snfccasy.dynamic.covad.net ([69.3.233.221] helo=[10.0.1.2]) by pop-a065d01.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CN1ZV-0006it-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 21:07:33 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <37CF6BF7.3542BF4C.0BD9917F@aol.com> References: <37CF6BF7.3542BF4C.0BD9917F@aol.com> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:41:48 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Crypts and Costume Research (Sort of Off Topic) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 2:37 PM -0400 10/26/04, Kitsune242@aol.com wrote: >Greetings All! > >After reading the various e-mails for the last couple weeks about >extant clothing and such, I am wondering where other people stand on >the subject of opening tombs/crypts to study Textiles/Costumes from >earlier eras. I would really like to get other opinions, before I >post my own. However, if you feel this is not something that >belongs on this list, but you wish to give me your opinions anyway, >please feel free to contact me in private. I'm definitely on the side of "if they're long dead, no problem", but there's a complex issue that I haven't noticed anyone else bring up. (I may have missed it -- I've been skimming a bit.) Standards and techniques in archaeology improve all the time. The most careful and attentive excavations of a century ago look like bumbling barely-better-than-looters today. And our efforts today are likely to look the same in another century. So there's a good argument that we should be careful and selective about opening tombs solely for the purpose of studying the clothing or other contents (Much as it pains me not to know about every stitch in existence everywhere!) Rescue projects when a tomb is going to be disturbed for other reasons is an entirely different subject, of course. Then there's every reason for studying all we can with the techniques currently available. Of course, when the subject is textiles rather than pots, there's also the issue of degradation over time. If we have reason to believe that a tomb has informative contents but that those contents are currently gradually degrading, do we have a duty to examine them now on the premise that the improvement in future techniques won't balance out the loss of quality of the subject? I'm greedy; I want to know about every garment hidden in every tomb and grave ... and I want to know about them _now_. But I've also read the descriptions of what has happened to textile finds in the past and think about what future generations would think if we rushed to rummage through everything out of greed ... even greed for knowledge. Heather -- **** Heather Rose Jones heather.jones@earthlink.net **** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 28 00:47:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9S4l4NM014821 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 00:47:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9S4fU4a006775 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 22:41:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9S4e0a9065820; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 22:40:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from indirectobject.com (066-241-084-045.bus.ashlandfiber.net [66.241.84.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9S4dra9065729 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 22:39:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rreed@indirectobject.com) Message-Id: <200410280439.i9S4dra9065729@net.indra.com> Received: from synergy ([192.168.1.1]) by indirectobject.com (WWW [192.168.1.200]) (MDaemon.PRO.v6.8.5.R) with ESMTP id 41-md50000000013.tmp for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 21:39:25 -0700 From: To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: opening tombs Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 21:39:35 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-Index: AcS8mCOC4okcid16TkC6QQiXF/A79wAD+swA X-Spam-Processed: WWW, Wed, 27 Oct 2004 21:39:25 -0700 (not processed: message from valid local sender) X-MDRemoteIP: 192.168.1.1 X-Return-Path: rreed@indirectobject.com X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: h-costume@indra.com X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sounds like what I heard them do in New Orleans due to lack of space. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Wanda Pease Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 7:46 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: opening tombs When I lived in Germany in the 1980's and 90's you could go to the local churchyard and see all the headstones stacked against the walls. Evidently you only "rented" the plot for about 80-100 years. After that they re-rented the plot and re-used it. It makes sense to me after seeing the huge war cemeteries there from WW I and II. They cover acre after acre. Think of how many people have died there over the last 1000 years or so! You couldn't keep up the present American habit of one person to a grave forever and ever, amen! :-) When they made a city park out of the Pioneer graveyard in my home town, they moved almost every grave to another cemetery. There were still a few monuments there to play on when I was a child. We certainly weren't reverent, but we were a tribute to the efforts those people made in bringing life to the town. Wanda Pease/Regina Romsey "Life is not a journey to the Grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming --Wow! What A Ride!!" > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 28 01:31:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9S5VdSc015195 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 01:31:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9S5V34a009805 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Oct 2004 23:31:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9S5Una9091035; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 23:30:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9S5UjaA090979 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 23:30:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i9S5cu62002531 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 01:38:57 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: opening tombs and Medici Crypt program Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 01:44:39 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200410280144.39831.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 27 October 2004 1:19 am, Wanda Pease wrote: > Grin! > > > I doubt Ms. Kenyon planned to die when she did. :-) > > > > Now if she had merely squirreled away the material she collected > > in the dig > > without trying to prepare any of it for publication, I would > > agree with you. > > I doubt that she "planned" to either. However, what she did was dig, and > dig, and dig without putting her notes in any kind of order. She was > notorious for "keeping it all in her head". When the dark angel came for > her I'm sure she was trying to waive him off until she got one more pot > cleaned up. :-) If failing to plan projects better were a mortal sin, nobody would make it into Heaven. I join you in regretting the information lost through Ms. Kenyon's poor work habits, but I find it hard to blame her much for the same type of error I might have committed if I had been in her shoes. [snip] > > It is bad enough that several countries now require digs be published > before another is started. Is that so bad? At least it minimizes the type of situation Ms. Kenyon created--doing a dig and destroying a site without getting the valuable information out to the academic community. > Archeologists who don't publish don't get to > dig any more. At least they do keep the pottery as intact as they can, > which can't be said for most bulldozers! True. :-) -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 28 02:20:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9S6K5fp020720 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 02:20:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9S6JK4a012740 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Oct 2004 00:19:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9S6Iea9013607; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 00:18:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from asmtp-a063f35.pas.sa.earthlink.net (asmtp-a063f35.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.120.220]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9S6IUa9013569 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 00:18:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [4.152.198.238] (helo=MOM) by asmtp-a063f35.pas.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CN3cC-0002PK-R6 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 23:18:30 -0700 Message-ID: <00b001c4bcb5$f0770190$0300a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20041026.182453.-709889.4.Seamstrix@juno.com><417FC4CA.1060806@reddawn.net> <417FD311.8080807@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: opening tombs Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 02:18:26 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 140fedcc4d524cc6b18d26c2e407058b94f5150ab1c16ac08f4233f47979de2687870e6c4901a66928161b8b18439f7e350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.152.198.238 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i9S6K5fp020720 Status: RO One thing I found when looking at cemetery records... for my father's family, the contact information for the family plot was the people who purchased the plot. In this case was my grandfather's address in 1913. All of their family moved out of the state by 1920. In another graveyard, the church didn't have detailed records of who was actually buried in the cemetery. My g-grandmother and two of her sons are in unmarked graves in this location. So how does this church even know where their graves are located. Sadly, this problem is happening all over the country. Within the past decade, genealogists are being more aware of this problem with graveyards. Several historical and genealogical societies are trying to document the gravesites and posting the information on the internet. With the internet being such a powerful tool for genealogists, people are seeing the outdated records, like I did with my father's family, and updating contact information for the gravesites. This documenting project has been a long and tedious one. I don't think they could ever have enough volunteers. Properties do get sold, gravesites do over-grow, and sadly, some graves collapse or the headstones weather beyond recognition. There is a website... I think gen-root, someone on list probably knows the URL, and you can find the societies that are trying to document these graveyards. They are listed by state and country. The cemetery with my father's family is owned by the city and is well kept. So please don't think because the graveyard is cared for, that current contact information is on record. I photograph a lot of artwork in graveyards and you would be surprised how many tombstones have faded inscriptions, broken stones, collapsed graves, etc. Everywhere I travel, I try to make a point to visit graveyards. And have seen these problems in almost every graveyard. Even while in Wales during Sept. I saw 1840-1920s graves like this. On a lighter side, I was photographing in a crypt in Liverpool in Sept. I had meet two nuns and we decided to go on the crypt tour together. Our small group got locked into the crypt on accident. While waiting for someone to find us, I thought, "Well if I would ever be trapped in a crypt, who better to be in company with than two nuns." Penny E. Ladnier (who took the floating caskets in the film Poltergeist too seriously) Owner, The Costume Gallery & Online Reference Library, AND Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumegallery.com/research.htm www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 28 04:28:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9S8SMwr029151 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 04:28:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9S8Rl4a022496 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Oct 2004 02:27:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9S8Rca9072197; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 02:27:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from asmtp-a063f35.pas.sa.earthlink.net (asmtp-a063f35.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.120.220]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9S8Raa9072174 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 02:27:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [4.152.198.238] (helo=MOM) by asmtp-a063f35.pas.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CN5d6-0001SJ-VY for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 01:27:35 -0700 Message-ID: <00ec01c4bcc7$f84df970$0300a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1D0F9734.4B33830E.0BD9917F@aol.com><417EC0DD.3080102@lavoltapress.com> <454CA986-2798-11D9-9222-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Crypts and Costume Research Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 04:27:30 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 140fedcc4d524cc6b18d26c2e407058b94f5150ab1c16ac08f4233f47979de2679061365ec6cba68f314e8c2fbacaaa3350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.152.198.238 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i9S8SMwr029151 Status: RO I noticed the (off topic) in the subject header. This is a very good discussion since we are upon the *costumer's holiday,* Halloween, followed by All Souls/Saint Day, Nov. 1. I have enjoyed reading the posts. Thank you Kit for asking these pondering questions. At the 2000 Williamburg Costume Society (CSA) symposium, there was a presentation by a team of people who reported their findings from an excavation site in Louisiana. At first I really didn't want to attend the presentation, but it came directly after a presentation on something that I was really interested in. They rolled from one presentation to another. So our little group sat through the excavation presentation. Prior to the presentation, I thought from the presentation's title, that this topic was a little too morbid for me. This presentation was probably one of the best I have ever seen. I think Ann Wass stayed for this presentation, so maybe she can help explain the it too. There was a site where three early 1800s graves had collapsed. There was a team, I think from LSU, who gained permission from the present day family to do an excavation. The bodies were two adult women (sisters) and one of their children. The excavation team consisted of archaeologists and textile experts. The presentation at the Symposium was presented as a tag team. The findings from the textiles for the ladies explained their cause of death. The women had some type of female problems... I can't recall the exact name, but it wasn't pregnancy. I believe both women were in their 30s. The way the experts came to this conclusion was because of the body's physical condition and interesting pieces of fabrics that was laid in their pelvic area. Ann, please can correct me if needed, but I believe the team said the textiles had been blood stained. Interesting about the young boy, that prior to burial, his name was written in each piece of his clothing. The textiles were in fairly good condition. If you are interested in hearing the whole presentation, the symposium has an audio recording that you can purchase from CSA. I think you can call the national office or email them. The website is www.costumesocietyamerica.com . A little different slant... When I was growing up, we had Choctaw burial mounds on our farm. We owned all of the land, except large circles encompassing the mounds. The mounds were protected by the state of Mississippi. Our farm was surrounded by a state park. My brothers would play along the beaches and find old pottery and arrowheads. The finds would wash up on the shores, especially after hurricanes. My father had to turn my brothers' finds over to the state park. It was part of our agreement for living on this land. We were never allowed to go close to the mounds, nor was our farm animals. We passed the mounds daily going down the road to our house. We planted crops around the mound fields but not in the mound area. The whole farm area is now a protected area by the government as a historic site because of the amount of artifacts found after we moved. The mounds are still there. After a few more hurricanes, more artifacts sufficed of the local tribes/clans. I, too, flounder over when is an appropriate time and place to bother gravesites or should we leave them alone. I think when there is a reason to do an excavation, and the properly trained people do it, then it is appropriate. This particular Choctaw tribe/clan believed in respecting their burial sites. My family and the state respected it. On the other hand, I do believe in the excavations of Ancient Egypt to learn more about their society. But I don't want someone digging into my great-grandmother's gravesite because the church didn't know where in the graveyard she was located. When I took my grad level Egyptian art course, some of the people excavating Egyptian sites were our guest lecturers. They said at the most 10% of ancient Egypt is above the ground, 90% is covered by sand. Many artifacts are being destroyed by the salt in the water or air. It is really important to preserve what is there of Ancient Egypt. One of the chief excavators/guest lecturers has been on one excavation site every year since the 1960s. On the other hand... part of the graveyard at Jamestown is in the James River... and lord only know how many bodies have floated out to the Chesapeake Bay/Atlantic when the river floods though the centuries. Last week, I watched a PBS show about the Ancient Phoenicians (sp?) and the archaeological digs are how they are finding out more about this civilization that little is know about. One thing I did take to heart from my Egypt course was... the soul of a person or civilization is remembered as long as their name is spoken or written. This was believed by this ancient civilization. King Tut's name was erased from Egyptian's history until Howard Carter discovered his tomb... Something to really think about. Do you own a piece of clothing or trinket of a passed loved one? Why do you keep it? Do you think of them when you take it out? I always try to find the oldest tombstone in a graveyard. Then I say the person's name aloud. For that one moment a soul is remembered. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Online Reference Library, AND Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumegallery.com/research.htm www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 28 05:30:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9S9UdBq016258 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 05:30:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9S9TU4a003161 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Oct 2004 03:29:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9S9TDa9097508; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 03:29:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from alpha2.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (alpha2.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.0.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9S9TBa9097484 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 03:29:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 10:28:54 +0100 From: Teddy Subject: RE: [h-cost] help with British terms To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3C16@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] help with British terms Thread-Index: AcS8OXFaTqoulqvrQhq1CSb3GhbrQQAloABg content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.20 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I'm completely ignorant of these techniques, but presumably > they create an openwork fabric and the base fabric is > eventually discarded? It sounds as though the author does > mean what we familiarly call "sticky-back plastic". I've been wondering if that was what they meant. Self adhesive paper/plastic/borders etc. "Fablon" is a brand-name for it. It comes in all sorts of colours and effects as well as "clear" Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 28 07:10:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9SBABxV017146 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 07:10:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9SB8H4a011081 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Oct 2004 05:08:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9SB6va9036568; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 05:06:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9SB6Xa9036304 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 05:06:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-8.13) id A2B21DD80068; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 07:06:26 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.113 ([209.131.81.113] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 28 Oct 04 11:06:25 -0000 Message-ID: <002101c4bcde$2be7f540$715183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20041026.182453.-709889.4.Seamstrix@juno.com><417FC4CA.1060806@reddawn.net><417FD311.8080807@lavoltapress.com> <00b001c4bcb5$f0770190$0300a8c0@MOM> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: opening tombs Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 07:06:26 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-DCC-SdV-Metrics: net.indra.com 1179; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The crypt for the 'Margarites' in Montreal is a fascinating place. It is located in the bottom of the chapter house that used to be a hospital...now a retirement home for elderly Sisters. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 2:18 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: opening tombs One thing I found when looking at cemetery records... for my father's family, the contact information for the family plot was the people who purchased the plot. In this case was my grandfather's address in 1913. All of their family moved out of the state by 1920. In another graveyard, the church didn't have detailed records of who was actually buried in the cemetery. My g-grandmother and two of her sons are in unmarked graves in this location. So how does this church even know where their graves are located. Sadly, this problem is happening all over the country. Within the past decade, genealogists are being more aware of this problem with graveyards. Several historical and genealogical societies are trying to document the gravesites and posting the information on the internet. With the internet being such a powerful tool for genealogists, people are seeing the outdated records, like I did with my father's family, and updating contact information for the gravesites. This documenting project has been a long and tedious one. I don't think they could ever have enough volunteers. Properties do get sold, gravesites do over-grow, and sadly, some graves collapse or the headstones weather beyond recognition. There is a website... I think gen-root, someone on list probably knows the URL, and you can find the societies that are trying to document these graveyards. They are listed by state and country. The cemetery with my father's family is owned by the city and is well kept. So please don't think because the graveyard is cared for, that current contact information is on record. I photograph a lot of artwork in graveyards and you would be surprised how many tombstones have faded inscriptions, broken stones, collapsed graves, etc. Everywhere I travel, I try to make a point to visit graveyards. And have seen these problems in almost every graveyard. Even while in Wales during Sept. I saw 1840-1920s graves like this. On a lighter side, I was photographing in a crypt in Liverpool in Sept. I had meet two nuns and we decided to go on the crypt tour together. Our small group got locked into the crypt on accident. While waiting for someone to find us, I thought, "Well if I would ever be trapped in a crypt, who better to be in company with than two nuns." Penny E. Ladnier (who took the floating caskets in the film Poltergeist too seriously) Owner, The Costume Gallery & Online Reference Library, AND Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumegallery.com/research.htm www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 28 08:51:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9SCp4aG018277 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 08:51:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9SCoT4a016397 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Oct 2004 06:50:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9SCoAa9079298; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 06:50:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9SCo7a9079204 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 06:50:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lauren.walker@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (h0006255ec5ea.ne.client2.attbi.com[66.31.43.36]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <200410281250010140005odte>; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 12:50:01 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 08:50:01 -0400 From: Lauren Walker To: h-costume Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Magazines for costumers? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, o knowledgable ones, I am aware of the research-oriented, academic magazines for costume history. But, are there magazines for historical costumers of a more general -- and sewing-oriented -- nature? I know there's recently been a thread listing publications and organizations, but I would appreciate your thumbnail descriptions of the magazines, not just their names. If this is boring, please feel free to reply off-list: lauren.walker@comcast.net. Thanks very much! Lauren _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 28 09:17:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9SDHgxv018563 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 09:17:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9SDH04a017970 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Oct 2004 07:17:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9SDGua9091203; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 07:16:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9SDGra9091153 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 07:16:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m2.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABA2B6JJAQXEEXS for (sender ); Thu, 28 Oct 2004 06:15:52 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCuAeLDHHq+XzxeZeom0Dpfd7lldKa3kkpA== Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KA2HVTG7; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 06:15:31 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 08:16:51 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Crypts and Costume Research Message-ID: <20041028.081651.-115940149.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-13,27-29 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-ContentStamp: 11:5:2931029817 X-MAIL-INFO: 0b21855515a5891139b938c1747991199d71e1a10560798461f9f049a95149c965a9b151b1b190ade98170541da435d44035f445d4ed40ed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 04:27:30 -0400 "Penny Ladnier" (much snippage) > One thing I did take to heart from my Egypt course was... the soul > of a person or civilization is remembered as long as their name is > spoken or written. This was believed by this ancient civilization. > King Tut's name was erased from Egyptian's history until Howard > Carter discovered his tomb... Something to really think about. Do > you own a piece of clothing or trinket of a passed loved one? Why do > you keep it? Do you think of them when you take it out? I always > try to find the oldest tombstone in a graveyard. Then I say the > person's name aloud. For that one moment a soul is remembered. One of the things I really like about the Ancient Egyptian display at the Field Museum in Chicago is that they have a large plaque on the wall that basically says that if you remember/say the names of the people they have in the display, you help them stay 'alive' in the after life. They give you an English translation of a traditional Egyptian prayer for the dead and then a list of the known names plus a reminder of the numerous individuals for which they have no name and they invite you to say the prayer yourself. It's just one of the very cool aspects of the exhibit. Another indication that they are more sensitive to Egyptian beliefs than they used to be is that they put ushabti figures in each case with the mummy. For those of you who are not Ancient Egypt geeks, ushabtis are small human figures (statues) who were thought to perform the tasks required of the dead in the afterlife- without the ushabti, the dead person would have to do it themselves or do without! Karen ________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/ month - visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 28 10:00:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9SE0nke019059 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 10:00:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9SE004a020938 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Oct 2004 08:00:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9SDxpa9014868; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 07:59:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web50001.mail.yahoo.com (web50001.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.16]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9SDxma9014811 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 07:59:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20041028135942.66208.qmail@web50001.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web50001.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 14:59:42 BST Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 14:59:42 +0100 (BST) From: Marquesate To: H-Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] "Medieval" pattern for fairy tale prince costume? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear All, I know next to nothing about anything between the 12th andthe 16th centuries, but would like to make a generic Brothers Grimm prince costume and something "Medieval" comes to mind. Does anyone know where I could find a pattern for a male outfit that looks like the Page of Pentackles in the Tarot? I have started a Sewing project progress diary for this costume (it includes a Barbie as Princess Thumbelina ;-) and you can see what I mean here: http://www.kipar.org/salacious-historian/costume-diaries/2004-fairy-tale.html Thanks for any pointers Nicole Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 28 10:45:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9SEj6Jw019484 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 10:45:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9SEiK4a024526 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Oct 2004 08:44:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9SEiDa9041727; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 08:44:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9SEi9a9041604 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 08:44:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m08.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABA2CBNKAGVMC8J for (sender ); Thu, 28 Oct 2004 07:43:21 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKUiOZTU6Ir/OrPwddnMw6iWYaXKtee/78M= Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KA2NVDSF; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 07:42:40 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 07:38:15 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Faux fur trim Message-ID: <20041028.074217.3744.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,4-27,30-31,34-47 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-ContentStamp: 18:9:373804930 X-MAIL-INFO: 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 914d159189a14dc515c5c595d8189dc9cc55acece9b1ecd545e9fcb1fc X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Call me old fashioned, but... I really shy away from buying fake fur online. Mainly because fake fur can be badly done--bad fur sheds like crazy if you brush it; good fur won't. Good luck! Arlys On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:50:03 EDT IceGirlNIN@aol.com writes: > > In a message dated 10/27/2004 8:40:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > fran@lavoltapress.com writes: > > Does anyone know who sells good faux fur trim online? The kind > with > finished selvages, that is you don't have to cut it out of faux fur > > garment fabric? Maybe 2-3 inches wide? > > I have nothing against real fur, but this stuff is easier to handle > for > what I want (which is to put it on the edges of a suede poncho). > > > > > (_http://www.mjtrim.com/catalog/product.aspx?product=32006&variant=----01 -ALL_ > > (http://www.mjtrim.com/catalog/product.aspx?product=32006&variant=----01- ALL) > ) > Well, this stuff has only a 1" wide selvage, but the fur itself is > 1.5" > wide. Comes in black, brown, and white (the white is rather > temptingly pretty > for ermine-trim..). Mind the wrap if there is any. > > Christine > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/ month - visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 28 11:29:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9SFTpMX019895 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 11:29:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9SFO84a029127 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Oct 2004 09:24:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9SFNua9070529; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 09:23:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp3.suscom.net (smtp3.suscom.net [64.78.119.250]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9SFNraA070311 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 09:23:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp3.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42F48DC122 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 11:23:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip194.182.235.64.susc.suscom.net [64.235.182.194]) by smtp3.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 3AFD3DC3A6 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 10:38:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00fd01c4bcfb$cef173c0$c2b6eb40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20041028135942.66208.qmail@web50001.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Medieval" pattern for fairy tale prince costume? Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 10:23:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I have started a Sewing project progress diary for this costume (it > includes a > Barbie as Princess Thumbelina ;-) and you can see what I mean here: > > http://www.kipar.org/salacious-historian/costume-diaries/2004-fairy-tale.html > > Thanks for any pointers > > Nicole > I have that same pattern! I used it to make a kirtle and sideless gown for a Barbie for a friend. The worst thing about Barbie clothing is those teeny tiny wrist opening! I'm trying to think of a way to finish them that will look good and still fit over her hands. Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 28 13:22:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9SHM6a8020797 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 13:22:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9SHKc4a013540 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Oct 2004 11:20:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9SHKQa9064492; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 11:20:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net (starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.227]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9SHKMa9064438 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 11:20:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [4.152.84.244] (helo=MOM) by starling.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CNDwi-0005di-N8 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 10:20:22 -0700 Message-ID: <003401c4bd12$66c84b40$0300a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20041028.081651.-115940149.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Crypts and Costume Research Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 13:20:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 140fedcc4d524cc6b18d26c2e407058b94f5150ab1c16ac08f4233f47979de26116c2ac79e2219d10dbcf90fc3c9cb58350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.152.84.244 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i9SHM6a8020797 Status: RO Karen, I interviewed one of our guest lecturers for an hour or so. He was a professor from I believe the Art Institute in Chicago. He is the one who makes an annual trip to Egypt every year since the 1960s. They tag team excavating with a British team. The work they do is so fascinating. They use no modern machinery for digging. The area is so remote, they can not get resources such as gas to run modern equipment. I did get to see the touring exhibit that was at the VA Museum of Fine Arts while taking my class. Such a wonderful exhibit. I especially liked the mummy and the figurines of the field workers. The pectoral necklace was stunning. My first mummy to see was at the Carnegie Museum at Pittsburgh. They have a nice collection too. A friend bought me the original exhibit book from the King Tut U.S. tour in the 1970s. If you can find a used book of this it is WONDERFUL. My husband and I was planning for our 30th anniversary to go to Egypt to research for a couple of months. Since that is just a couple of years away, and we will still be paying for #4 & #5 sons' college, I think it will be delayed. My husband spent several months in Egypt teaching the Multi-national Peacekeeping troops. He has so much fun exploring while there. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Online Reference Library, AND Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumegallery.com/research.htm www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 28 13:51:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9SHpOEX020930 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 13:51:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9SHoM4a016942 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Oct 2004 11:50:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9SHoHa9087832; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 11:50:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f39.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.89]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9SHoGa9087747 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 11:50:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 10:50:05 -0700 Received: from 129.244.6.162 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 17:49:53 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.162] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 12:49:53 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Oct 2004 17:50:05.0128 (UTC) FILETIME=[8E85CC80:01C4BD16] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: opening tombs and Medici Crypt program X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: Catherine Olanich Raymond >>It is bad enough that several countries now require digs be published >>before another is started. >Is that so bad? At least it minimizes the type of situation Ms. Kenyon >created--doing a dig and destroying a site without getting the valuable >information out to the academic community. Just poking my nose in here. I believe the context of the sentance was that "it (the situation of non-publication) is so bad that..." not that it's bad that archaeologists are being forced to do this. What follows may not be a popular opinion however, speaking as someone who truly sucks at writing up documentation (I love to research, I hate to write it out), people who dig and don't document their finds aren't archaeologists - they're looters. I would prefer -publication- of their finds, but I realize that's not always possible. At the very least, not keeping notes is incompetant and irresponsible. To me, it's very cut and dried. If someone goes out and intentially digs up a site to sell the materials, there is no question that they are looting. If someone goes out and digs a site, claiming to be an archaeologist, they are simply looting it for their own knowledge, and I'm not sure that this isn't worse than looting for mere money. Both are right up there a person going out and destroying a site looking to prove some sort of theory (e.g. Schleiman's Trench, and Zimbabwe). But I digress :) Looting is a topic that just sets me off (I'm still trying to find a way to convince people that we need to have the death penalty for looting of archaeological sites - for some reason it's jut not popular...) Marc _________________________________________________________________ Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to School Guide! http://special.msn.com/network/04backtoschool.armx _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 28 14:05:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9SI52xY021024 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 14:05:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9SI4O4a018935 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Oct 2004 12:04:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9SI4Ga9098826; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 12:04:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web50602.mail.yahoo.com (web50602.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.89]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9SI1Ma9096419 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 12:01:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Message-ID: <20041028180115.30602.qmail@web50602.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.49.146.76] by web50602.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 14:01:15 EDT Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 14:01:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Kathy Page To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200410281527.i9SFR5a9073010@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: opening tombs X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Would you happen to be thinking of http://www.interment.net/Default.htm It's an international cemetary transcription library. Kathy > This documenting project has been a long and tedious > one. I don't think they could ever have enough > volunteers. Properties do get sold, gravesites do > over-grow, and sadly, some graves collapse or the > headstones weather beyond recognition. > > There is a website... I think gen-root, someone on > list probably knows the URL, and you can find the > societies that are trying to document these > graveyards. They are listed by state and country. ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 28 14:25:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9SIPVo6021172 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 14:25:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9SHOb4a013961 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Oct 2004 11:24:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9SHOZa9067814; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 11:24:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9SHOSaA067757 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 11:24:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i9SHL0TA031335 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 13:21:01 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 13:21:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <41812B4A.3000604@thibault.org> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 13:24:26 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Medieval" pattern for fairy tale prince costume? References: <20041028135942.66208.qmail@web50001.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20041028135942.66208.qmail@web50001.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Marquesate wrote: > Does anyone know where I could find a pattern for a male outfit that looks like > the Page of Pentackles in the Tarot? Specifically the Rider-waite deck. That's basically a mid-length houppelande. Usually has full sleeves of one sort or another, but all that fullness in the body, combined with a hat, and dagging, must be inspired by the houppelande. Simplicity, usually pretty good in the costume department, doesn't have a credible houp variant on the website. Hmm, nor does McCall's. I've a website which talks about making your own pattern, and has lots of pictures, if you want to see what some of them can look like -- http://www.virtue.to/articles/circle_houp.html There's articles about the hats, too. You might need to look at the less mainstream pattern companies for a drawn-out pattern, though. cv -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent We would not [monitor the election of] a country that had election laws like ours, where every precinct, every voting place can have a separate kind of voting mechanism, and where the interpretation of what is a good vote or a bad vote depends, almost exclusively, on local officials' prejudices. -- The Carter Center _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 28 14:45:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9SIjA1f021233 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 14:45:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9SIiI4a023046 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Oct 2004 12:44:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9SIi9a9029332; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 12:44:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9SIi5a9029178 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 12:44:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (c-24-21-147-231.client.comcast.net [24.21.147.231]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i9SIhxB29757 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 14:43:59 -0400 Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 11:41:46 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Althea Turner To: Costume Historical Message-Id: <053D0259-2911-11D9-A2E0-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Hobbits Found X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i9SIjA1f021233 Status: RO hello, In light of our recent discussion :D Althea > > Ancient hobbit-sized human species discovered > Scientists working on a remote Indonesian island say they have > uncovered the bones of a human dwarf species marooned for eons while > modern man rapidly colonized the rest of the planet. > http://g.msn.com/0MNBUS00/2?http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/ > 6346939&&CM=EmailThis&CE=1 >   > > Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com I think, therefore I'm dangerous. I'll be Post-Feminist in a Post-Patriarchy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 28 15:15:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9SJFJWU021364 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 15:15:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9SJEb4a025704 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Oct 2004 13:14:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9SJEVa9052633; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 13:14:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065d05.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065d05.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.249]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9SJE2a9052158 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 13:14:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hardcorps@earthlink.net) Received: from grover.psp.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.78.249]) by pop-a065d05.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CNFij-0006Rz-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 12:14:01 -0700 Message-ID: <13676443.1098990839899.JavaMail.root@grover.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 12:13:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Frank and Tracy Thallas To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hobbits Found Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i9SJE2a9052158 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I saw this and thought it was just too cool - something new every day... Giant lizards and mini-elephants and hobbit-folk, all in one place. Liadain -----Original Message----- From: Althea Turner Sent: Oct 28, 2004 11:41 AM To: Costume Historical Subject: [h-cost] Hobbits Found hello, In light of our recent discussion :D Althea > > Ancient hobbit-sized human species discovered > Scientists working on a remote Indonesian island say they have > uncovered the bones of a human dwarf species marooned for eons while > modern man rapidly colonized the rest of the planet. > http://g.msn.com/0MNBUS00/2?http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/ > 6346939&&CM=EmailThis&CE=1 >   > > Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com I think, therefore I'm dangerous. I'll be Post-Feminist in a Post-Patriarchy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 28 18:28:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9SMSDkm023679 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 18:28:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9SMQG4a018199 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Oct 2004 16:26:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9SMPva9001409; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 16:25:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9SMPra9001286 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 16:25:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m2.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABA2C6P4APLQKWS for (sender ); Thu, 28 Oct 2004 15:24:58 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCmJ3W5iHOujRuT15eAuMJWtj5S3buiT6Fw== Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KA3HBRQ7; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 15:24:54 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 17:24:03 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Crypts and Costume Research Message-ID: <20041028.172404.-115940149.3.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 7-6,7,9-14,17-28,32-33,35-37,38-32767 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-ContentStamp: 10:5:3372995376 X-MAIL-INFO: 44b5d9b5711ca598f1151c09697191c915c5f10dd54169250d X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 13:20:17 -0400 "Penny Ladnier" writes: > Karen, > > I interviewed one of our guest lecturers for an hour or so. He was > a professor from I believe the Art Institute in Chicago. Probably the Oriental Institute of the University of Chicago. They have a truly excelleent collection of Near East artifacts. The Art Institute is more about Impressionism than archeology....... > I did get to see the touring exhibit that was at the VA Museum of > Fine Arts while taking my class. Such a wonderful exhibit. I > especially liked the mummy and the figurines of the field workers. > The pectoral necklace was stunning. My first mummy to see was at > the Carnegie Museum at Pittsburgh. They have a nice collection too. > A friend bought me the original exhibit book from the King Tut U.S. > tour in the 1970s. If you can find a used book of this it is > WONDERFUL. I saw the exhibit waaaaay back when in the 70's. I was in high school at the time and more than a little bit of an archeology geek. It was a really excellent exhibit. I wouldn't mind a walk down memory lane thru a guide book. By the way, the offer to play Friendly Native Guide to the graveyards of Chicago still stands...... Karen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 28 19:09:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9SN9YQF023867 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 19:09:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9SN8e4a024392 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Oct 2004 17:08:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9SN8Ta9033302; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 17:08:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from asmtp-a063f31.pas.sa.earthlink.net (asmtp-a063f31.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.120.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9SN8Na9033224 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 17:08:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [4.152.198.153] (helo=MOM) by asmtp-a063f31.pas.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CNJNV-0000jg-Ui for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 16:08:23 -0700 Message-ID: <001401c4bd43$04ab9a30$0300a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20041028.172404.-115940149.3.Seamstrix@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Crypts and Costume Research Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 19:08:18 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 140fedcc4d524cc6b18d26c2e407058b94f5150ab1c16ac08f4233f47979de269456e200aaac188fc498abeb6b7013ee350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.152.198.153 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i9SN9YQF023867 Status: RO Karen, Oh Karen, I am green with envy!!!!! You are one lucky girl. The tour came to New Orleans when I was in college (the first decade). My best friend went to see it. The title of the book is Treasures of Tutankhamun ISBN: 0-345-25684-0-795 . You might want to try Amazon's used books. I have picked up some great deals on books there. My nephew with the first groups of soldiers that went into Baghdad. He said they found a loot of Egyptian artifacts in the basement of Sadam's palaces. He showed me photos of some of the artifacts. There was a death mask very similar to King Tutankhamen's.... Lots of gold and artifacts. Museum specialists came into the site and together they packed the artifacts up and sent them back to Egypt. I wish I knew you when we lived in Rantoul, Illinois in 1981. My husband was stationed at their Air Force Base. It looks like this might be a traveling year for me. I have had an offer from a London PR firm to go to Paris in Dec. to talk to the press. Waiting around to see if it works out. I would really love to come to Chicago to see the graves in the cemeteries that you showed me on that website. I am still trying to figure out the title of that book that has children's graves with the sculpture of their bodies laying down and then it is covered with glass. I saw it when I was in college in 1996. I wish I had more storage space in my memory. I did see the one statute of the little girl under glass on that website in Chicago. I took a photo in an Anglican church in Liverpool of a laying Bishop's sculpture on top of his tomb. WOW! It reminded me of Egyptian artwork. An eagle or falcon had it wings spread like it was embracing his head. So moving! Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Online Reference Library, AND Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumegallery.com/research.htm www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 28 19:16:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9SNGffV023899 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 19:16:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9SNFt4a025078 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Oct 2004 17:15:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9SNFpa9038101; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 17:15:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9SNFgaA037963 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 17:15:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i9SNCATA003499 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 19:12:10 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 19:12:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <41817D97.9010903@thibault.org> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 19:15:35 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" , "pamela@dritt.net" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] More costume/theater notes 1661 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Another from the serialized Pepys diary: http://www.pepysdiary.com/archive/1661/10/28/index.php "and they and I to the Theatre, and there saw “Argalus and Parthenia,” where a woman acted Parthenia, and came afterwards on the stage in men’s clothes, and had the best legs that ever I saw, and I was very well pleased with it. Thence to the Ringo alehouse, and thither sent for a belt-maker, and bought of him a handsome belt for second mourning, which cost me 24s., and is very neat." cv _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 28 19:24:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9SNOMcf023945 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 19:24:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9SNNk4a025926 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Oct 2004 17:23:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9SNNga9043002; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 17:23:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from asmtp-a063f31.pas.sa.earthlink.net (asmtp-a063f31.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.120.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9SNNea9042977 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 17:23:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [4.152.198.153] (helo=MOM) by asmtp-a063f31.pas.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CNJcK-0007Sl-1u for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 16:23:40 -0700 Message-ID: <003101c4bd45$276e4e30$0300a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <053D0259-2911-11D9-A2E0-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hobbits Found Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 19:23:36 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 140fedcc4d524cc6b18d26c2e407058b94f5150ab1c16ac08f4233f47979de2607d6596eb0142bb17b8f765bf0ceb577350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.152.198.153 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i9SNOMcf023945 Status: RO Althea, I saw this on the news today too. WOW! What a find. I watched on PBS a show about the Pigmies (sp) last week. It makes me wonder if this was the originals of their race. Then I thought about all the people I know that are four foot something. The report said the remains would have made the person about 4 ft. tall. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Online Reference Library, AND Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumegallery.com/research.htm www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 28 20:16:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9T0G9UH024139 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 20:16:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T0FW4a012100 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Oct 2004 18:15:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T0FLa9082393; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 18:15:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T0FHaA082349 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 18:15:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-8.sonic.net [209.148.114.8]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i9T0FGSP028828 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 17:15:17 -0700 Message-ID: <41818B98.5050207@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 17:15:20 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hobbits Found References: <053D0259-2911-11D9-A2E0-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> <003101c4bd45$276e4e30$0300a8c0@MOM> In-Reply-To: <003101c4bd45$276e4e30$0300a8c0@MOM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, I'm 4'9" tall, and not considered in any way medically abnormal for a modern human female. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Penny Ladnier wrote: >Then I thought about all the people I know that are four foot something. The report said the remains would have made the person about 4 ft. tall. > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 28 21:22:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9T1MEin024433 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:22:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T1Lh4a017011 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Oct 2004 19:21:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T1Lga9020598; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 19:21:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T1H7a9018152 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 19:17:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id C439E11BE9 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 18:17:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041028165951.029e9ce0@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 17:00:42 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] image of Jane Grey? In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.1.1.0.20041020204041.022b1e80@64.87.54.245> <5.2.1.1.0.20041020204041.022b1e80@64.87.54.245> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all Thanks for your comments on this portrait. I will continue searching for more info on her this winter, and if I find anything definitive, I will make a post. Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 28 21:22:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9T1MESw024432 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:22:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T1La4a016989 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Oct 2004 19:21:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T1LYa9020515; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 19:21:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T1H6a9018132 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 19:17:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA25611BF0 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 18:17:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041028164812.02a306b8@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 16:50:46 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Magazines for costumers? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:50 AM 10/28/2004 -0400, you wrote: >Hi, o knowledgable ones, >I am aware of the research-oriented, academic magazines for costume history. >But, are there magazines for historical costumers of a more general -- and >sewing-oriented -- nature? I know there's recently been a thread listing >publications and organizations, but I would appreciate your thumbnail >descriptions of the magazines, not just their names. If this is boring, >please feel free to reply off-list: lauren.walker@comcast.net. > >Thanks very much! >Lauren Hi Lauren, There was a costume and fashion magazine, but only one issue apparently was released before it closed. Not sure why. I use Threads and Sew News magazines for sewing tips. Not historical I know, but both magazines have really helped improve my general sewing skills. And sometimes they do techniques that are usable for historical garments. And if there is a magazine out there that provides historical sewing tips, I would love to know about it myself. Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 28 21:22:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9T1MLFV024441 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:22:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T1Lo4a017025 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Oct 2004 19:21:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T1Loa9020696; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 19:21:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T1H7a9018157 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 19:17:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54A4E34256 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 18:17:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041028170059.03cca4d0@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 17:01:28 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: RE: [h-cost] image of Jane Grey? In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.1.1.0.20041020204041.022b1e80@64.87.54.245> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:22 AM 10/21/2004 -0500, you wrote: >If I remember right from Roy Strong's book "Tudor and Jacobean Portraiture" >this portrait, though id'ed as Jane Grey, is either in private ownership, >lost or(gulp!)destroyed. It was also thought to be cut down from an original >full-length portrait. Thanks Cindy for your post about this book. I will be ILL it this winter and see what can be seen. Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 28 21:22:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9T1MQv7024446 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:22:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T1Lt4a017043 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Oct 2004 19:21:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T1Lta9020737; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 19:21:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T1H8a9018172 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 19:17:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6B3811BF0 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 18:17:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041028170252.03cb99c8@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 18:17:02 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] image of Jane Grey? In-Reply-To: <4684468.1098506259774.JavaMail.root@grover.psp.pas.earthli nk.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:37 PM 10/22/2004 -0700, you wrote: > Look at: >http://www.marileecody.com/gloriana/princesselizabethscrots.jpg > > or if that doesn't work go to >http://englishhistory.net/tudor/monarchs/eliz1.html >and scroll down to the Scrots portrait of the young Elizabeth - if you can >get both images on the >screen, they look like two versions of the same coloring book page. Look >at the hands. Someone >has taken Elizabeth's book away, but not changed the attitude of her >fingers... > >Liadain Hi Liadain, Thanks for pointing this one to me. I have the Elizabeth image in books, and I see what you are saying. Jane's chemise sleeves and false undersleeve also have similar aspects to Bess'. I am wondering if they were copies from contemporary students or something? Like the two images of Jane Seymour that are close to each other, yet not exact copies. I wasn't an art student, so all this is kinda new to me, but I've seen these images for many years looking at the garments, which is why something I can't name is saying this portrait is off somehow. {shrugs} Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 28 21:22:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9T1Mrpl024451 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:22:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T1HJ4a016780 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Oct 2004 19:17:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T1H8a9018171; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 19:17:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T1H4a9018123 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 19:17:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 492AC11BE9 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 18:17:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041028164112.00b156a8@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 16:47:46 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] help with British terms In-Reply-To: <14.36d412de.2eb0f552@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:57 AM 10/27/2004 -0400, you wrote: > > might the product "Sulky"fall into this category; > > particularly the wash away variety > >Sulky is a brand name--they make several kinds of stabilizers, including wash >away, tear away, and, I think, paint on. But I haven't used any for a long >time, so I can't vouch for how easy they are to remove. > >Ann Wass I use the wash away and tear away a lot recently with the machine blackwork I have been doing (I know, not a "period" method, but it still looks good). The iron on tear away is nice to work with, as it stays in place where you iron it, and if needed, you can lift it up and iron it down again if you get the placement wrong. Removal is pretty easy, and it washes off over time. The wash away stabilizer is annoying to work with. It comes off easily, but the plastic nature makes it creep and shift while sewing over it, even when pinned down. I think I am going to try a spray on temp glue and see if that will help it stay put, although the liquid nature of the glue might melt it anyway. Maybe a glue stick might be worth trying, but I haven't explored that part yet. There is also the paint on wash off stabilizer, which is the wash away plastic stuff in liquid form. Scraps of the wash away can be saved and water added to make the liquid stuff. The directions are with the stabilizer. Also, using liquid starch can be a usable stabilizer, same for spray on starch but use several light coats, pressing between coats. hth, Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 28 21:23:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9T1N7p1024455 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:23:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T1LK4a016950 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Oct 2004 19:21:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T1LHa9020351; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 19:21:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T1H6a9018138 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 19:17:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B5CC11BFA for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 18:17:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041028165117.02a2adc0@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 16:59:39 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] the Jane Grey pic In-Reply-To: <19a.2b3bb12f.2eafa59e@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:05 AM 10/26/2004 -0400, you wrote: >Ya'll are just going to laugh at me, I know it, but I will admit that when I >first saw this pic of Jane Grey that we are currently discussing, my >immediate thought was that it was not a period piece, but one from a >later time. I >still believe that, but since ya'll are sure it is authentic to the >period, I >will concede that I made a snap judgement and happily embrace this lovely >portrait for what it is. Hi Kimberly, I was the one who posted the image to the list. I won't laugh on this, as that was my gut feeling as well when I saw the image. It just seemed like someone found several portraits of the time, and created a montage to create this "Jane Grey" image. The face seemed too shaded, the pose like others, but different enough, the material like Eleanora's famous dress, yet different. The list goes on. I have yet to find the real story on this image, although I do not have Roy Strong's Portraits book. I saw it on eBay, but was unwilling to pay $200 for it. I hope to ILL it this winter, and hopefully learn more. Hopefully, we will find out the story on it in time. Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 28 22:44:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9T2iG9P024898 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 22:44:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T2hY4a022496 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Oct 2004 20:43:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T2hKa9062245; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 20:43:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T2hCaA062141 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 20:43:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i9T2pShP032660 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 22:51:28 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Magazines for costumers? Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 22:57:11 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <5.2.1.1.0.20041028164812.02a306b8@64.87.54.245> In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20041028164812.02a306b8@64.87.54.245> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200410282257.11431.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There's Piecework. Piecework actually concentrates on historic needlework techniques, but their mainstay is articles containing projects that will give you an opportunity to do/learn the techniques for yourself. The projects usually involve decorative techniques, seldom projects that would involve making an entire garment. -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 28 22:51:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9T2pRqF024952 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 22:51:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T2os4a023367 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Oct 2004 20:50:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T2oqa9066862; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 20:50:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T2jpaA064383 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 20:45:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i9T2s78N032711 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 22:54:07 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hobbits Found Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 22:59:50 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <053D0259-2911-11D9-A2E0-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> <003101c4bd45$276e4e30$0300a8c0@MOM> <41818B98.5050207@lavoltapress.com> In-Reply-To: <41818B98.5050207@lavoltapress.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200410282259.50797.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 28 October 2004 8:15 pm, Lavolta Press wrote: > Well, I'm 4'9" tall, and not considered in any way medically abnormal > for a modern human female. > > Fran > Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming > http://www.lavoltapress.com > > Penny Ladnier wrote: > >Then I thought about all the people I know that are four foot something. > > The report said the remains would have made the person about 4 ft. tall. The article on this I read from the International Herald Tribune said these people would have stood "a little over a meter tall." A meter is approximately 39 inches, so these folk would have been considerably less than 4 feet tall. -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 28 22:57:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9T2vLnO025007 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 22:57:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T2up4a023838 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Oct 2004 20:56:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T2uja9069677; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 20:56:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T2ueaA069645 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 20:56:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i9T34uqh000528 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 23:04:56 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: opening tombs and Medici Crypt program Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 23:10:39 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200410282310.39947.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 28 October 2004 1:49 pm, Marc Carlson wrote: > >From: Catherine Olanich Raymond > > > >>It is bad enough that several countries now require digs be published > >>before another is started. > > > >Is that so bad? At least it minimizes the type of situation Ms. Kenyon > >created--doing a dig and destroying a site without getting the valuable > >information out to the academic community. > Just poking my nose in here. I believe the context of the sentance was > that "it (the situation of non-publication) is so bad that..." not that > it's bad that archaeologists are being forced to do this. I thought (and the original writer may correct me if I'm wrong) that what was being decried in the sentence beginning "It is bad enough" was that, because of conduct like Ms. Kenyon's, governments were refusing to permit new digs until results/information on current ones had been published. My comment was meant to say, "it's not bad for a government to require existing digs to be published before permitting a new dig." > What follows may not be a popular opinion however, speaking as someone who > truly sucks at writing up documentation (I love to research, I hate to > write it out), people who dig and don't document their finds aren't > archaeologists - they're looters. I would prefer -publication- of their > finds, but I realize that's not always possible. At the very least, not > keeping notes is incompetant and irresponsible. Opening a site and failing to document and keep notes is irresponsible and deplorable, and I agreed with the original poster about that. However, I think it falls short of looting, where the person not only destroys a site, but attempts to profit directly from the destruction. > To me, it's very cut and > dried. If someone goes out and intentially digs up a site to sell the > materials, there is no question that they are looting. Agreed. But going out to a dig and failing to keep notes isn't equivalent to "selling the materials." > If someone goes out > and digs a site, claiming to be an archaeologist, they are simply looting > it for their own knowledge, and I'm not sure that this isn't worse than > looting for mere money. Both are right up there a person going out and > destroying a site looking to prove some sort of theory (e.g. Schleiman's > Trench, and Zimbabwe). One can argue that it's a different kind of greed but still greed. I think it's wrong but still a different wrong than looting. > But I digress :) Looting is a topic that just sets me off (I'm still > trying to find a way to convince people that we need to have the death > penalty for looting of archaeological sites - for some reason it's jut not > popular...) Since this is not a political list, I will quietly sign off now. :-) -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 28 23:14:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9T3EAbo025126 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 23:14:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T3D64a025011 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:13:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T3D2a9078794; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:13:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T3D0aA078765 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:13:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-213.sonic.net [209.148.113.213]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i9T3Cw63030038 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 20:12:59 -0700 Message-ID: <4181B53F.8020502@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 20:13:03 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hobbits Found References: <053D0259-2911-11D9-A2E0-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> <003101c4bd45$276e4e30$0300a8c0@MOM> <41818B98.5050207@lavoltapress.com> <200410282259.50797.cathy@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: <200410282259.50797.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Haven't seen the article, was quoting from Penny. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com >The article on this I read from the International Herald Tribune said these >people would have stood "a little over a meter tall." A meter is >approximately 39 inches, so these folk would have been considerably less than >4 feet tall. > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 28 23:23:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9T3NkAQ025182 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 23:23:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T3N24a025659 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:23:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T3Mwa9083638; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:22:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065d23.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065d23.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.254]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T3Mua9083614 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:22:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from costumrs@radiks.net) Received: from user-12l20go.cable.mindspring.com ([69.81.2.24] helo=pierre-ynmjysj2.radiks.net) by pop-a065d23.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CNNLs-0001up-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 20:22:56 -0700 Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.2.20041028221411.0245ce70@pop.radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net@pop.radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 22:22:12 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <200410281527.i9SFR5aA073010@net.indra.com> References: <200410281527.i9SFR5aA073010@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Tombs, graves, etc. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The small-town graveyard where several of my relatives are buried (SE Nebraska) has some stones that are very weathered and just barely readable. The oldest we found this Memorial Day was from about 1850 or so. It has two rather unique ones though.... One is a family plot, under a rather old evergreen tree - the family stone looks just like a tree trunk, about 5 feet tall, with stumps where the branches were cut off. The individual stones are shaped like the cut branches, about 18" long, laying flat on the ground around the "tree". I think it dates from around 1910 - 1920. The other one is, in the midst of many veteran's markers, from WW I, WW II, and the Union army of the ACW, is ---one--- Confederate ACW veteran's marker. And yes, someone puts a small Confederate flag on it every year. We try to pick a few of the most overgrown stones each year and at least clear the grass, mud, etc. off them, so they look a little better. Sandy >From: "Penny Ladnier" >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: opening tombs > >I photograph a lot of artwork in graveyards and you would be surprised how >many tombstones have faded inscriptions, broken stones, collapsed graves, etc. >Penny E. Ladnier "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed to Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly -- Why They Are Simply Doomed. Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 28 23:27:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9T3RKSo025203 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 23:27:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T3Qm4a025860 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:26:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T3Qka9085468; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:26:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from asmtp-a063f31.pas.sa.earthlink.net (asmtp-a063f31.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.120.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T3Pqa9085032 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:26:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [4.152.198.153] (helo=MOM) by asmtp-a063f31.pas.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CNNOg-0005Ee-AS for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 20:25:52 -0700 Message-ID: <009001c4bd66$fcd2e510$0300a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 23:25:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 140fedcc4d524cc6b18d26c2e407058b94f5150ab1c16ac08f4233f47979de26bb5e49976b44b96d18ba6fbde515a3cf350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.152.198.153 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] A sneak peek X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i9T3RKSo025203 Status: RO First I want to apologize for not having the Online Costume Ball again this year . I know how much the list members enjoy our annual Online Costume Ball. Guilt is getting to me for not having the Costume Balls in 2003 & 2004. For two years in a row hurricanes has slowed us down from having the Balls. Since the predictions are for more hurricanes in the next few years, I have decided to move the time of the Ball to late Jan-Feb during Carnival / Mardi Gras season. To ease my guilty feelings, and to celebrate costumers' favorite season Halloween, I have decided to have a weekend of FREE access to the subscription area of my Library to members of specific email lists who have patronized our Online Costume Balls over the years. The free access period will be from today until midnight Oct. 31. Monday morning the passwords will be changed and the free access period will end. This *limited time* access is really important because I don't want my website bandwidth to go sky high and find out that I am bankrupt Monday morning. We are ONLY inviting four email lists, each with about 500 members. So please do NOT give out the passwords to your friends. The invited email lists members are: h-costume@indra.com , 19cWomen@yahoogroups.com , the USITT costume designers costumeinfo@yahoogroups.com , and our costumegallery@yahoogroups.com . DIRECTIONS TO THE LIBRARY: Go to http://www.costumegallery.com/research.htm and click on the subscriber login button. A gray popup box will appear. You need to enter the login and password exactly like I say or you will receive an error message. You need to make sure your login and password have NO extra spaces before or after the password or login. Computers read spaces as a character. Also do not use capital letters! Put your cursor in the login area. Then backspace to the far left. This will ensure there are no blank spaces. Then enter the following: Library's passwords Login: cg2003 Password: 575978 Make sure to click on the box to save the passwords. I will be at the Virginia Theater Association convention in Washington DC Fri. through Saturday. #5 son is performing. Susan Bosarge, my #1 asst., is on this email list. If you need help with the passwords, please ask her through this list. If you are having a password problem maybe someone else is too. Please don't write Susan personally and bog down her email account. Others on the list may help you too. Some of our interns are on these email lists. Today there are 2,375 webpages and countless images in our Library. The subscription area covers fashions from 1804 to 1923. There are period fashion magazines, catalogs, and books. You can view the Library by individual catalog, book, by a particular year, or by topic. When on the main Library page, scroll down to bookshelves. Then click on the book image you are interested in. If you want to see the latest additions to the Library, go to http://www.costumegallery.com/updates.htm . You can see the updates to the Library from July through October. Next month we are expanding our series A Year in Fashion from 1923-1932 and eventually 1950. Please remember to not share the passwords with your friends. My normal bandwidth for the website is 60-85 gigs a month. If I go way over that, I have to pay big $$$. Think of this weekend like a private costume party. I hope this makes it up to you for not having a timely online costume ball for these two years. Lastly... Remember that Sunday, the party ends at midnight Halloween, East Coast, U.S. time. If you push us about the time, I will turn you into a toad! Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Online Reference Library, AND Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumegallery.com/research.htm www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 28 23:39:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9T3dvaF025305 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 23:39:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T3dI4a026711 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:39:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T3dDa9091922; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:39:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from asmtp-a063f31.pas.sa.earthlink.net (asmtp-a063f31.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.120.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T3dBa9091908 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:39:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [4.152.198.153] (helo=MOM) by asmtp-a063f31.pas.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CNNba-0001GK-Fe for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 20:39:11 -0700 Message-ID: <00ae01c4bd68$d91ef670$0300a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <053D0259-2911-11D9-A2E0-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com><003101c4bd45$276e4e30$0300a8c0@MOM><41818B98.5050207@lavoltapress.com> <200410282259.50797.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hobbits Found Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 23:39:07 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 140fedcc4d524cc6b18d26c2e407058b94f5150ab1c16ac08f4233f47979de26ede2768889008c53562384cb8a858763350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.152.198.153 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i9T3dvaF025305 Status: RO Hmm... Cathy, the news today said 4 ft. I would love to read the article in the magazine that it is being published. National Geographic has been there filming, but the article is not be published by them first. I believe it was some sort of trade magazine. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Online Reference Library, AND Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumegallery.com/research.htm www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 28 23:41:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9T3f6Ak025321 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 23:41:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T3eX4a026789 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:40:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T3eXa9092675; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:40:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from asmtp-a063f31.pas.sa.earthlink.net (asmtp-a063f31.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.120.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T3eVa9092656 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:40:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [4.152.198.153] (helo=MOM) by asmtp-a063f31.pas.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CNNcs-0001jg-JV for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 20:40:31 -0700 Message-ID: <00b701c4bd69$09858ea0$0300a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <053D0259-2911-11D9-A2E0-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> <003101c4bd45$276e4e30$0300a8c0@MOM> <41818B98.5050207@lavoltapress.com><200410282259.50797.cathy@thyrsus.com> <4181B53F.8020502@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hobbits Found Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 23:40:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 140fedcc4d524cc6b18d26c2e407058b94f5150ab1c16ac08f4233f47979de26e1ceeabeea607758d351aad4149cd144350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.152.198.153 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i9T3f6Ak025321 Status: RO Fran, Is there a link to the article? Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Online Reference Library, AND Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumegallery.com/research.htm www.costumeclassroom.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Lavolta Press To: Historical Costume Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 11:13 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hobbits Found Haven't seen the article, was quoting from Penny. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com >The article on this I read from the International Herald Tribune said these >people would have stood "a little over a meter tall." A meter is >approximately 39 inches, so these folk would have been considerably less than >4 feet tall. > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 28 23:49:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9T3n75E025357 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 23:49:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T3mQ4a027209 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:48:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T3mHa9096293; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:48:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail4.mdx.safepages.com (mail4.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.19]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T3mFa9096139 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:48:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail4.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 4D41926833; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 03:48:01 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust61.tnt2.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.178.61]) by mail4.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 132FF26826 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 03:47:56 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <0bef01c4bd6a$1f512090$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200410281527.i9SFR5aA073010@net.indra.com> <6.1.2.0.2.20041028221411.0245ce70@pop.radiks.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT Re: Tombs, graves, etc. Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 22:48:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pierre & Sandy Pettinger" > One is a family plot, under a rather old evergreen tree - the family stone > looks just like a tree trunk, about 5 feet tall, with stumps where the > branches were cut off. The individual stones are shaped like the cut > branches, about 18" long, laying flat on the ground around the "tree". I > think it dates from around 1910 - 1920. The other one is, in the midst of > many veteran's markers, from WW I, WW II, and the Union army of the ACW, is > ---one--- Confederate ACW veteran's marker. And yes, someone puts a small > Confederate flag on it every year. Ah! The graveyard that I lived right beside for 7 years (preacher's kid, etc) had a tree stump gravestone that sounds identical! Though it didn't have the individual stone branches. It dated to 1920, and it was my favorite grave. (Hey, I was a kid, and the graveyard was practically my back yard.) Friendship Cemetary, near my magnet school in Columbus, MS, has an extremely interesting grave in it, from a historian's point of view: 'Nurse Canant,' the only woman to have been buried in a Confederate military grave. She died at Shiloh, if I remember correctly, and was listed in the cemetary records as being female, so it wasn't a male nurse. For my history class, I was assigned to research her story, and couldn't find out anything beyond that... the mystery has bugged me ever since! There must be some reason she was accorded that singular honor, and I wanna KNOW it! -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 28 23:57:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9T3veP8025407 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 23:57:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T3u44a027784 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:56:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T3txa9000267; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:55:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T3tvaA000236 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:55:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-27.sonic.net [209.148.113.27]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i9T3ttsC006243 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 20:55:56 -0700 Message-ID: <4181BF50.5050109@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 20:56:00 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hobbits Found References: <053D0259-2911-11D9-A2E0-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> <003101c4bd45$276e4e30$0300a8c0@MOM> <41818B98.5050207@lavoltapress.com><200410282259.50797.cathy@thyrsus.com> <4181B53F.8020502@lavoltapress.com> <00b701c4bd69$09858ea0$0300a8c0@MOM> In-Reply-To: <00b701c4bd69$09858ea0$0300a8c0@MOM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I haven't read it, I just heard about it from my husband. They'd probably have to measure a number of individuals of both genders to get a range. Fran Penny Ladnier wrote: >Fran, > >Is there a link to the article? > >Penny E. Ladnier >Owner, The Costume Gallery & Online Reference Library, AND Costume Classroom >www.costumegallery.com >www.costumegallery.com/research.htm >www.costumeclassroom.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lavolta Press > To: Historical Costume > Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 11:13 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hobbits Found > > > Haven't seen the article, was quoting from Penny. > > Fran > Lavolta Press > http://www.lavoltapress.com > > > >The article on this I read from the International Herald Tribune said these > >people would have stood "a little over a meter tall." A meter is > >approximately 39 inches, so these folk would have been considerably less than > >4 feet tall. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Oct 28 23:59:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9T3xOmD025415 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 23:59:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T3wh4a028080 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:58:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T3wha9001447; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:58:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from bilbo.suffolk.lib.ny.us (bilbo.suffolk.lib.ny.us [209.139.23.58]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T3wda9001329 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:58:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Bchamber@suffolk.lib.ny.us) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bilbo.suffolk.lib.ny.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCDD9A54147 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 23:57:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bilbo.suffolk.lib.ny.us ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (bilbo [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23614-09 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 23:57:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from D1CCZP51 (unknown [209.139.108.109]) by bilbo.suffolk.lib.ny.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32614A54165 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 23:56:59 -0400 (EDT) From: "Beth Chamberlain" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Hobbits Found Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 23:58:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <00b701c4bd69$09858ea0$0300a8c0@MOM> Thread-Index: AcS9aTTnXWDIHLx5SHeMTL3wORBeqAAAaPGA Message-Id: <20041029035659.32614A54165@bilbo.suffolk.lib.ny.us> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The complete articles are in today's Nature. The full content of Nature is online but partially by subscription only. They are being nice with this one - it looks like most of it is free. I haven't had a chance to read it yet. http://www.nature.com/news/specials/flores/index.html Beth Chamberlain _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 29 00:00:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9T40oJ6025426 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 00:00:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T40F4a028260 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Oct 2004 22:00:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T40Ea9002350; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 22:00:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T3xqaA002113 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:59:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i9T3xbdE026474 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 20:59:51 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:11:30 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <200410282310.39947.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id i9T3xqaA002113 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Archeology and publication X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You are interpreting my comments correctly Marc. As the original writer, (poor writing evidently) what I meant to say was that there have been to many instances of professional archeologists and teams excavating a site and then never publishing their notes and findings. Their field notes remained in the same state as the day they left off digging, or not much better. Then they went on to continue the dig the next year, or began to dig somewhere else. Because of this, governments such as Israel and Egypt have found it necessary to require that write-ups be done in X amount of time (two years is what I remember) or the archeologist in charge will be banned from that or other sites. The human historical record is being destroyed, since that is what digging does. If the excavation isn't published and knowledge shared it would have been better never to have been dug at all. As the guardians of the property where this knowledge exists, governments have a duty to their populace and the people of the world to insist that the knowledge gained by the destruction be disseminated. Otherwise, it doesn't matter if the pot is carefully sent to the British Museum, or sold to Lord Snuffy Smith. If there is no provenance, it is (usually) just a curiosity. There are some things that have been looted that can be of value to the record, but they are much more valuable if they come with something like: found is strata X at X depth, photos and drawings at... As Marc says, it is frequently far more interesting to do the research than to write it up. Archeologists are often only funded for the dig, not the months of work it takes to analyze and write up their findings. Then they get to find someplace to publish those findings. I've heard one archeologist who worked on Crete say that she had to pay for the publication herself. Some digs are actually doing their publication on-line which only costs the time to type it in, and meets the requirements of some countries. Some sites are leaving areas undisturbed because they are aware that new techniques are coming that may extract far more information than we currently have the technology to acquire. Looter or archeologist. When the site has been fully excavated, if there are no records, or those records are incomplete, the site is lost to us. It seems to me that the archeologist has a duty to see that this doesn't happen. Regina _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 29 00:09:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9T49CvR025481 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 00:09:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T48b4a028810 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Oct 2004 22:08:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T48Xa9006526; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 22:08:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T48TaA006491 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 22:08:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i9T4GfM9001877 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 00:16:42 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hobbits Found Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 00:22:25 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <053D0259-2911-11D9-A2E0-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> <200410282259.50797.cathy@thyrsus.com> <00ae01c4bd68$d91ef670$0300a8c0@MOM> In-Reply-To: <00ae01c4bd68$d91ef670$0300a8c0@MOM> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200410290022.25673.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 28 October 2004 11:39 pm, Penny Ladnier wrote: > Hmm... Cathy, the news today said 4 ft. I would love to read the article > in the magazine that it is being published. National Geographic has been > there filming, but the article is not be published by them first. I > believe it was some sort of trade magazine. I don't have the Science article being referred to; the account I read first was on the International Herald Tribune's web site. http://www.iht.com/articles/2004/10/27/news/tiny.html -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 29 00:18:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9T4IFBF025526 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 00:18:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T4Hg4a029448 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Oct 2004 22:17:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T4HYa9011310; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 22:17:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from asmtp-a063f31.pas.sa.earthlink.net (asmtp-a063f31.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.120.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T4HUa9011267 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 22:17:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [4.152.198.153] (helo=MOM) by asmtp-a063f31.pas.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CNOCg-0005PD-4v for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:17:30 -0700 Message-ID: <00da01c4bd6e$3442c5e0$0300a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <053D0259-2911-11D9-A2E0-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> <003101c4bd45$276e4e30$0300a8c0@MOM> <41818B98.5050207@lavoltapress.com><200410282259.50797.cathy@thyrsus.com> <4181B53F.8020502@lavoltapress.com><00b701c4bd69$09858ea0$0300a8c0@MOM> <4181BF50.5050109@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hobbits Found Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 00:17:27 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 140fedcc4d524cc6b18d26c2e407058b94f5150ab1c16ac08f4233f47979de26923c1a6d10493376707326b3f49959a4350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.152.198.153 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i9T4IFBF025526 Status: RO Fran, Did they find more than one body? Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Online Reference Library, AND Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumegallery.com/research.htm www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 29 00:20:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9T4Kj9v025570 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 00:20:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T4KA4a029672 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Oct 2004 22:20:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T4K7a9012659; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 22:20:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from asmtp-a063f31.pas.sa.earthlink.net (asmtp-a063f31.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.120.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T4J7a9012111 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 22:19:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [4.152.198.153] (helo=MOM) by asmtp-a063f31.pas.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CNOEE-0005tf-8C for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:19:07 -0700 Message-ID: <00e201c4bd6e$6da3a570$0300a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200410281527.i9SFR5aA073010@net.indra.com> <6.1.2.0.2.20041028221411.0245ce70@pop.radiks.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Tombs, graves, etc. Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 00:19:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 140fedcc4d524cc6b18d26c2e407058b94f5150ab1c16ac08f4233f47979de26126f3f09c259f0da046374945d92b3f8350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.152.198.153 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/557/Wed Oct 27 07:37:32 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i9T4Kj9v025570 Status: RO Sandy, This sounds like the Woodman's of the World gravemarkers. All I know is that it was an organization. This headstone style was very popular in the late Victorian period. At Hollywood Cemetery in Richmond, VA there is a whole family plot like what you described. I think I have photographed it. For anyone who has been there, family plot is near the Presidents graves. If I can find my brochure from there it talks about these markers. I have been photographing artwork in graveyard to show the styles of costumes on the statutes. I call my series, Costume Heaven. I have only had enough time to put one webpage up with some images, http://www.costumegallery.com/cemetery/ladies1.htm I have hundreds of photos to add. The lady on the second row, right side, freaked me out a few years ago. The sun was setting and from a distance with the right lighting, she looks like a real person. I was feeling so sad for her. That day, I didn't drive down near the grave because I didn't want to disturb her. A year later I went back to photograph more in the cemetery, and discovered she was a statute. She is life size and her body and costume are so detailed. So dramatic! Since I have found this statute in other graveyard but not life-sized. Another favorite of mine is the lady on the first row, first lady. I have photographed her on several different days and seasons. She is at Jefferson Davis' gravesite. She can look really spooky in the winter time, and very loving in the summer. I would like to photograph her in the winter on a rainy day. Just seems like it would be a cool setup for a photo. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Online Reference Library, AND Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumegallery.com/research.htm www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 29 00:32:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9T4WQZp025628 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 00:32:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T4Vf4a000373 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Oct 2004 22:31:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T4Vba9019007; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 22:31:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from S4.cableone.net (scanmail4.cableone.net [24.116.0.230]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T4U7a9017923 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 22:30:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kbaird@cableone.net) Received: from kimathlon (unverified [24.119.35.202]) by S4.cableone.net (CableOne SMTP Service S4) with ESMTP id 23775 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:31:27 -0700 From: "kim baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Hobbits Found Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 23:30:06 -0500 Message-ID: <000201c4bd6f$f7eb29a0$6601a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 In-Reply-To: <200410282259.50797.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Abuse-Info: Send abuse complaints to abuse@cableone.net X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/559/Thu Oct 28 07:08:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO As usual, the BBC has the latest on their SciTech web page: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/default.stm Go take a look. And no, the African Pygmies are IN NO WAY descended from this new discovery. They are homo sapiens sapiens, same as the rest of us. Kim _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 29 00:33:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9T4XFJ2025633 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 00:33:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T4Wh4a000439 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Oct 2004 22:32:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T4Wga9019547; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 22:32:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T4UEaA018008 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 22:30:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-27.sonic.net [209.148.113.27]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i9T4UDvY027197 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:30:14 -0700 Message-ID: <4181C75A.2050402@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:30:18 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hobbits Found References: <053D0259-2911-11D9-A2E0-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> <003101c4bd45$276e4e30$0300a8c0@MOM> <41818B98.5050207@lavoltapress.com><200410282259.50797.cathy@thyrsus.com> <4181B53F.8020502@lavoltapress.com><00b701c4bd69$09858ea0$0300a8c0@MOM> <4181BF50.5050109@lavoltapress.com> <00da01c4bd6e$3442c5e0$0300a8c0@MOM> In-Reply-To: <00da01c4bd6e$3442c5e0$0300a8c0@MOM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/559/Thu Oct 28 07:08:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I don't know, would probably be best to read the Nature article. Fran Penny Ladnier wrote: >Fran, > >Did they find more than one body? > >Penny E. Ladnier >Owner, The Costume Gallery & Online Reference Library, AND Costume Classroom >www.costumegallery.com >www.costumegallery.com/research.htm >www.costumeclassroom.com >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 29 01:06:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9T56aRQ025864 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 01:06:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T54e4a002340 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Oct 2004 23:04:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T54Va9036251; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 23:04:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T54QaA036193 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 23:04:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i9T5CdB0003293 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 01:12:39 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Archeology and publication Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 01:18:22 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200410290118.22549.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/559/Thu Oct 28 07:08:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/559/Thu Oct 28 07:08:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 29 October 2004 12:11 am, Wanda Pease wrote: [snip] > Looter or archeologist. When the site has been fully excavated, if there > are no records, or those records are incomplete, the site is lost to us. > It seems to me that the archeologist has a duty to see that this doesn't > happen. Amen to that. -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 29 01:39:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9T5dZEe026109 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 01:39:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T5dA4a004094 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Oct 2004 23:39:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T5d6a9052348; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 23:39:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.netspace.net.au (thunder.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9T5d3a9052225 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2004 23:39:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from stilskin@netspace.net.au) Received: from localhost (sprinkle.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.77]) by mail.netspace.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED1A342CFF for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 15:38:52 +1000 (EST) Received: from sarinarusso.com.au (sarinarusso.com.au [203.202.121.130]) by webmail.netspace.net.au (IMP) with HTTP for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 15:38:52 +1000 Message-ID: <1099028332.4181d76cd2727@webmail.netspace.net.au> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 15:38:52 +1000 From: stilskin@netspace.net.au To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hobbits Found MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/559/Thu Oct 28 07:08:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/559/Thu Oct 28 07:08:33 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hobbits, Hobbits, Hobbits. Pygmies were invented before Tolkien. Sheesh! -C. > > Ancient hobbit-sized human species discovered ------------------------------------------------------------ This email was sent from Netspace Webmail: http://www.netspace.net.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 29 07:21:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9TBLRYZ027754 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 07:21:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TBKd4a024192 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Oct 2004 05:20:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TBK4a9008854; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 05:20:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts20.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TBJwa9008778 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 05:19:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from janetpaine@sympatico.ca) Received: from LocalHost ([65.94.157.69]) by tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with SMTP id <20041029111958.ENS25820.tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net@LocalHost> for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 07:19:58 -0400 Message-ID: <005101c4bdaa$bbbf8f80$0200a8c0@LocalHost> From: "Janet Paine" To: References: <200410290409.i9T493a9006737@net.indra.com> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 07:30:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/560/Fri Oct 29 01:32:46 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/560/Fri Oct 29 01:32:46 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 864 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The original article on the discovery of the "hobbits" is published in this months edition of the academic journal, Nature. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 12:09 AM Subject: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 864 > Send h-costume mailing list submissions to > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > h-costume-request@mail.indra.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > h-costume-owner@mail.indra.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of h-costume digest..." > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Hobbits Found (Catherine Olanich Raymond) > 2. Re: RE: opening tombs and Medici Crypt program > (Catherine Olanich Raymond) > 3. Re: Hobbits Found (Lavolta Press) > 4. Re: Tombs, graves, etc. (Pierre & Sandy Pettinger) > 5. A sneak peek (Penny Ladnier) > 6. Re: Hobbits Found (Penny Ladnier) > 7. Re: Hobbits Found (Penny Ladnier) > 8. Re: OT Re: Tombs, graves, etc. (E House) > 9. Re: Hobbits Found (Lavolta Press) > 10. RE: Hobbits Found (Beth Chamberlain) > 11. Archeology and publication (Wanda Pease) > 12. Re: Hobbits Found (Catherine Olanich Raymond) > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 29 07:31:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9TBVgGM027860 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 07:31:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TBVB4a026677 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Oct 2004 05:31:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TBV7a9014726; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 05:31:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TBLDa9009376 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 05:21:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from janetpaine@sympatico.ca) Received: from LocalHost ([65.94.157.69]) by tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with SMTP id <20041029112112.MGLM4905.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@LocalHost> for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 07:21:12 -0400 Message-ID: <005e01c4bdaa$e7c73a60$0200a8c0@LocalHost> From: "Janet Paine" To: Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 07:32:00 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: m 1074; Body=1 Fuz1=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/560/Fri Oct 29 01:32:46 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/560/Fri Oct 29 01:32:46 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Hobbits X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id i9TBVgGM027860 Status: RO The original article on the discovery of the "hobbits" is published in this months edition of the academic journal, Nature. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 29 07:33:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9TBXP3r027875 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 07:33:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TBWv4a027049 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Oct 2004 05:32:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TBWua9015466; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 05:32:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TBWpa9015395 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 05:32:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-8.13) id AA5A1993014E; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 07:32:42 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.117 ([209.131.81.117] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 29 Oct 04 11:32:42 -0000 Message-ID: <002301c4bdab$02769680$755183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20041028.074217.3744.0.Cley@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Faux fur trim Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 07:32:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/560/Fri Oct 29 01:32:46 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/560/Fri Oct 29 01:32:46 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO One thing I have learned through the years is to throw the piece in the dryer NO Heat! It will gather up the loose stuff very nicely. I do the same with the cut pieces before I pin them together. Works for me, when you don't need the high quality stuff. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia J Ley" To: Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Faux fur trim > Call me old fashioned, but... > > I really shy away from buying fake fur online. Mainly because fake fur > can be badly done--bad fur sheds like crazy if you brush it; good fur > won't. > > Good luck! > > Arlys > > On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:50:03 EDT IceGirlNIN@aol.com writes: > > > > In a message dated 10/27/2004 8:40:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > > fran@lavoltapress.com writes: > > > > Does anyone know who sells good faux fur trim online? The kind > > with > > finished selvages, that is you don't have to cut it out of faux fur > > > > garment fabric? Maybe 2-3 inches wide? > > > > I have nothing against real fur, but this stuff is easier to handle > > for > > what I want (which is to put it on the edges of a suede poncho). > > > > > > > > > > > (_http://www.mjtrim.com/catalog/product.aspx?product=32006&variant=----01 > -ALL_ > > > > > (http://www.mjtrim.com/catalog/product.aspx?product=32006&variant=----01- > ALL) > > ) > > Well, this stuff has only a 1" wide selvage, but the fur itself is > > 1.5" > > wide. Comes in black, brown, and white (the white is rather > > temptingly pretty > > for ermine-trim..). Mind the wrap if there is any. > > > > Christine > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. > Now includes pop-up blocker! > Only $14.95/ month - visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 29 07:45:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9TBj87V027983 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 07:45:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TBda4a028553 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Oct 2004 05:39:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TBdPa9019006; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 05:39:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TBcqa9018474 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 05:38:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu (SMTPD32-8.13) id ABC527D500AC; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 07:38:45 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.117 ([209.131.81.117] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 29 Oct 04 11:38:45 -0000 Message-ID: <004501c4bdab$dae4c6e0$755183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.1.1.0.20041028164812.02a306b8@64.87.54.245> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Magazines for costumers? Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 07:38:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/560/Fri Oct 29 01:32:46 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/560/Fri Oct 29 01:32:46 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And you might want to add "Piecework" to that list. They have an amazing list of found pieces that connect needle-wise to so many periods and craft that gets talked about on this list. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kimiko Small" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 7:50 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Magazines for costumers? > At 08:50 AM 10/28/2004 -0400, you wrote: > >Hi, o knowledgable ones, > >I am aware of the research-oriented, academic magazines for costume history. > >But, are there magazines for historical costumers of a more general -- and > >sewing-oriented -- nature? I know there's recently been a thread listing > >publications and organizations, but I would appreciate your thumbnail > >descriptions of the magazines, not just their names. If this is boring, > >please feel free to reply off-list: lauren.walker@comcast.net. > > > >Thanks very much! > >Lauren > > > Hi Lauren, > > There was a costume and fashion magazine, but only one issue apparently was > released before it closed. Not sure why. > > I use Threads and Sew News magazines for sewing tips. Not historical I > know, but both magazines have really helped improve my general sewing > skills. And sometimes they do techniques that are usable for historical > garments. > > And if there is a magazine out there that provides historical sewing tips, > I would love to know about it myself. > > > Kimiko Small > Owner ~ DreamTime Studios > http://www.dreamtime-studios.com > Fresno, CA, USA > > "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 29 08:03:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9TC3qje028201 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 08:03:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TC3K4a003498 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Oct 2004 06:03:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TC3Fa9030592; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 06:03:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from dithers.gower.net (dithers.gower.net [205.230.30.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TC3AaA030542 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 06:03:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from vbetts@gower.net) Received: from gower.net (user-34.annex-04.tyler.tx.gower.net [208.218.191.177]) by dithers.gower.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i9TC47u39380 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 07:04:07 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from vbetts@gower.net) Message-ID: <4182316B.4932B4EB@gower.net> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 07:02:51 -0500 From: Vicki Betts X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT Re: Tombs, graves, etc. References: <200410281527.i9SFR5aA073010@net.indra.com> <6.1.2.0.2.20041028221411.0245ce70@pop.radiks.net> <0bef01c4bd6a$1f512090$0400a8c0@compaqub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/560/Fri Oct 29 01:32:46 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/560/Fri Oct 29 01:32:46 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Friendship Cemetary, near my magnet school in Columbus, MS, has an extremely > interesting grave in it, from a historian's point of view: 'Nurse Canant,' > the only woman to have been buried in a Confederate military grave. She died > at Shiloh, if I remember correctly, and was listed in the cemetary records > as being female, so it wasn't a male nurse. For my history class, I was > assigned to research her story, and couldn't find out anything beyond > that... the mystery has bugged me ever since! There must be some reason she > was accorded that singular honor, and I wanna KNOW it! > > -E House I thought I might have an answer, but the female nurse that I know of who died at Shiloh was Mrs. Anna McMahon, a Northern woman, and she was buried on the site. Here's a link to my paper on the civilians in Hardin County (Shiloh) leading up to and through the battle: http://www.uttyl.edu/vbetts/shiloh.htm I didn't find Nurse Canant specifically, but Confederate nurses will probably be more difficult to identify. She was probably a local resident somewhere between Corinth and Pittsburg Landing, as I would imagine anyone dying while working at the hospitals in Corinth would have been buried there. Is there a chance that she was a nurse in the aftermath of Shiloh, and died some time later? This is very intriguing. To keep this on costume topic, has anyone else noticed the clothing on monuments to Civil War women? It's interesting to see how close they get to historical accuracy for the 1860's, versus the aesthetic ideals for the time period in which they were erected, often by veterans' children or grandchildren. Or how often they are 1860s versus Greek mythic. Vicki Betts vbetts@gower.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 29 09:58:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9TDwQGS029287 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 09:58:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TDvk4a012157 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Oct 2004 07:57:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TDvea9090430; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 07:57:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from providenceday.org (treebeard.providenceday.org [66.193.73.82]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TDvaa9090346 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 07:57:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from grace.morris@providenceday.org) Received: from [172.20.1.3] (HELO providenceday.org) by providenceday.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.3) with ESMTP id 2138082 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 09:58:10 -0400 Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 09:57:10 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Grace Morris To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <6DC7D769-29B2-11D9-9C46-000393DA0BCC@providenceday.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/561/Fri Oct 29 04:26:00 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/561/Fri Oct 29 04:26:00 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] need millinery supplies X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I usually sew an earlier time period, but now I find that I need to come up with a "Victorian" caroling outfit in pretty quick order. Nothing fancy, just nice enough to earn $$ over the holiday season. I'm in need of a basic straw hat base--I can handle all the decorating myself. Can anyone recommend a fast, on-line supplier? Grace/Jessamyn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 29 11:55:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9TFtANI030504 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:55:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TFsR4a023178 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Oct 2004 09:54:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TFqga9081474; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 09:52:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav21.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.125]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TFqba9081360 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 09:52:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 08:52:01 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by BAY9-DAV21.phx.gbl with DAV; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 15:51:51 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <053D0259-2911-11D9-A2E0-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com><003101c4bd45$276e4e30$0300a8c0@MOM><41818B98.5050207@lavoltapress.com> <200410282259.50797.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hobbits Found Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:52:57 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Oct 2004 15:52:01.0562 (UTC) FILETIME=[3ACD27A0:01C4BDCF] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/561/Fri Oct 29 04:26:00 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/561/Fri Oct 29 04:26:00 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > The article on this I read from the International Herald Tribune said these > people would have stood "a little over a meter tall." A meter is > approximately 39 inches, so these folk would have been considerably less than > 4 feet tall. But that's still hobbit-sized, since they're supposedly between 3 and 4 feet tall (except the two mutants, Meriadoc and Peregrin :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 29 12:12:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9TGCsX3030795 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 12:12:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TGB54a025095 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:11:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TG9la9095325; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:09:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav10.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.114]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TG96a9094774 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:09:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 09:09:00 -0700 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by BAY9-DAV10.phx.gbl with DAV; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 16:08:42 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <053D0259-2911-11D9-A2E0-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com><003101c4bd45$276e4e30$0300a8c0@MOM> <41818B98.5050207@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hobbits Found Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 12:04:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Oct 2004 16:09:00.0898 (UTC) FILETIME=[9A5F7C20:01C4BDD1] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/561/Fri Oct 29 04:26:00 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/561/Fri Oct 29 04:26:00 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Well, I'm 4'9" tall, and not considered in any way medically abnormal > for a modern human female. > > Fran No, but statistically, you're below average. What they found seems like the whole race fit within the 3-4 feet standard. That's a major difference with the average present-day human average height. Of course, they don't have enough bodies of those "hobbits" to be considered a valid sample, and you have to assume that they dug up close to average individuals... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 29 12:17:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9TGHRU9030834 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 12:17:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TGFR4a025518 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:15:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TGEAa9098976; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:14:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.mc.surewest.net (smtp1.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9TGE5a9098913 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:14:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-28417); Fri, 29 Oct 2004 09:10:16 -0700 Received: from unknown (64.30.124.24) by smtp1.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 09:10:11 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20041029090705.00d786c0@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 09:13:31 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] image of Jane Grey? In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20041028170252.03cb99c8@64.87.54.245> References: <4684468.1098506259774.JavaMail.root@grover.psp.pas.earthli nk.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp1 SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=64.30.124.24 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/561/Fri Oct 29 04:26:00 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/561/Fri Oct 29 04:26:00 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The gown fabric in the "Jane Grey" picture ( http://photos.ladybrooke.com/sca/images/velvettudorgown/janegrey.jpg ) resembles the picture of Mary I by Hans Eworth (Portrait 23 in Roy Strong's "The English Icon"). The pattern of the gown fabric is very similar, though Mary is wearing a partlet of the same fabric, so you don't see the low neckline. The pose is pretty much a standard one; in fact, there is another portrait of Mary with the same pose by "Master John" (Portrait 12, English Icon) dated 1544. Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net At 06:17 PM 10/28/2004 -0700, you wrote: >At 09:37 PM 10/22/2004 -0700, you wrote: >> Look at: >>http://www.marileecody.com/gloriana/princesselizabethscrots.jpg >> >> or if that doesn't work go to >>http://englishhistory.net/tudor/monarchs/eliz1.html >>and scroll down to the Scrots portrait of the young Elizabeth - if you >>can get both images on the >>screen, they look like two versions of the same coloring book page. Look >>at the hands. Someone >>has taken Elizabeth's book away, but not changed the attitude of her >>fingers... >> >>Liadain > > >Hi Liadain, > >Thanks for pointing this one to me. I have the Elizabeth image in books, >and I see what you are saying. Jane's chemise sleeves and false >undersleeve also have similar aspects to Bess'. > >I am wondering if they were copies from contemporary students or >something? Like the two images of Jane Seymour that are close to each >other, yet not exact copies. I wasn't an art student, so all this is kinda >new to me, but I've seen these images for many years looking at the >garments, which is why something I can't name is saying this portrait is >off somehow. > >{shrugs} > > >Kimiko Small >Owner ~ DreamTime Studios >http://www.dreamtime-studios.com >Fresno, CA, USA > >"When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 29 12:25:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9TGPWhx030948 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 12:25:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TGOw4a026419 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:24:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TGNXa9006948; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:23:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from lakermmtao11.cox.net (lakermmtao11.cox.net [68.230.240.28]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TGNVa9006870 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:23:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from vmaa2@cox.net) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.10.139.124]) by lakermmtao11.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.04 201-2131-111-106-20040729) with ESMTP id <20041029162317.YEYR14365.lakermmtao11.cox.net@VMAAHQ> for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 12:23:17 -0400 From: "Linda Rice" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] need millinery supplies Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 12:30:52 -0400 Message-ID: <003501c4bdd4$ab2101c0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <6DC7D769-29B2-11D9-9C46-000393DA0BCC@providenceday.org> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/561/Fri Oct 29 04:26:00 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/561/Fri Oct 29 04:26:00 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Grace~ Not sure if this is what you are looking for, but its straw, and it's cheap! As to fast, I really don't know, I've not used this supplier. http://www.hatsupply.com/costume_hats.htm Scroll all the way to the bottom. HTH- ::Linda:: -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of Grace Morris [h-cost] need millinery supplies I usually sew an earlier time period, but now I find that I need to come up with a "Victorian" caroling outfit in pretty quick order. Nothing fancy, just nice enough to earn $$ over the holiday season. I'm in need of a basic straw hat base--I can handle all the decorating myself. Can anyone recommend a fast, on-line supplier? Grace/Jessamyn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 29 12:54:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9TGs3og031253 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 12:54:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TGqf4a028870 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:52:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TGpRa9029983; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:51:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TGpIaA029843 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:51:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-225.sonic.net [209.148.114.225]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i9TGpGKl009956 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 09:51:17 -0700 Message-ID: <41827508.2090004@lavoltapress.com> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 09:51:20 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hobbits Found References: <053D0259-2911-11D9-A2E0-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com><003101c4bd45$276e4e30$0300a8c0@MOM> <41818B98.5050207@lavoltapress.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/561/Fri Oct 29 04:26:00 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/561/Fri Oct 29 04:26:00 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, I finally read a couple of the articles. I'm not as below average as the fashion industry would have people think. I've always wondered what an anthropologist would conclude if they dug me up next to, say, my husband's 7-foot cousin. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com >No, but statistically, you're below average. What they found seems like the >whole race fit within the 3-4 feet standard. That's a major difference with >the average present-day human average height. Of course, they don't have >enough bodies of those "hobbits" to be considered a valid sample, and you >have to assume that they dug up close to average individuals... > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 29 13:12:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9THCd7Y031415 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 13:12:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9THBq4a001031 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:11:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TH9ca9045040; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:09:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp3.suscom.net (smtp3.suscom.net [64.78.119.250]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TH9XaA044716 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:09:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp3.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82F05DBC2B for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 13:08:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip194.182.235.64.susc.suscom.net [64.235.182.194]) by smtp3.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 13452DBC4B for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 13:08:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <010001c4bdd9$fb4c21c0$c2b6eb40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <053D0259-2911-11D9-A2E0-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com><003101c4bd45$276e4e30$0300a8c0@MOM> <41818B98.5050207@lavoltapress.com> <41827508.2090004@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hobbits Found Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 13:08:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/561/Fri Oct 29 04:26:00 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/561/Fri Oct 29 04:26:00 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavolta Press" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 12:51 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hobbits Found > Yes, I finally read a couple of the articles. > > I'm not as below average as the fashion industry would have people think. Yes, the fashion industry assumes that all women are 5'7" tall, with long legs. Well, I'm 5'0", with stubby legs, and I'd croak if I ever found a pair of pants that FIT. I just bought a pair of jeans that are marked petite, and they are inches too long. grrrr Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 29 13:17:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9THHCTF031497 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 13:17:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9THGb4a001617 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:16:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9THFLa9049660; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:15:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web51406.mail.yahoo.com (web51406.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.185]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9THBha9046582 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:11:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ivycircle@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20041029171138.51773.qmail@web51406.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.240.36.243] by web51406.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:11:38 PDT Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:11:38 -0700 (PDT) From: ~Angelique To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200410291618.i9TGH0aB001501@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/561/Fri Oct 29 04:26:00 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/561/Fri Oct 29 04:26:00 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] linen wool for tudor clothing X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am lining a few 1560 garments (a gown and a doublet) I am using chocolate wool flannel and would like to line them with linen. Should I dye the linen chocolate or is it appropriate to leave it white. These are merchant garments and will not be very "fancy" (i.e encrusted with gold embroidery or paired with velvet) Thank you thank you, Angelique __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 29 13:22:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9THMbQN031542 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 13:22:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9THLR4a002195 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:21:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9THJma9053245; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:19:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:5IBYViMjDKa8FxB1hSm4/ifK+JF34aMc@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9THDha9048368; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:13:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from webmail.patriot.net (vanburen.patriot.net [209.249.176.8]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id i9THDhnr006552; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 13:13:43 -0400 Received: from dci012034012003.discovery.com ([12.34.12.3]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user aquazoo) by webmail.patriot.net with HTTP; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 13:13:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <50356.12.34.12.3.1099070023.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <41827508.2090004@lavoltapress.com> References: <053D0259-2911-11D9-A2E0-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com><003101c4bd45$276e4e30$0300a8c0@MOM> <41818B98.5050207@lavoltapress.com> <41827508.2090004@lavoltapress.com> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 13:13:43 -0400 (EDT) From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: h-costume@indra.com, f-costume@indra.com User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-DCC-sonic.net-Metrics: net.indra.com 1117; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/561/Fri Oct 29 04:26:00 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Funny video! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is too funny - it's a take off on a music video. While it's not historic costume, I thought people would be amused. http://www.ruben.fm/format.html -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 29 13:23:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9THNjZT031560 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 13:23:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9THMu4a002314 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:22:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9THLja9054961; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:21:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:GMe6AWxFVPgJWFWExXEF6jN+QTg93ANz@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9THHOa9051269 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:17:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from webmail.patriot.net (vanburen.patriot.net [209.249.176.8]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id i9THHNnr010135 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 13:17:23 -0400 Received: from dci012034012003.discovery.com ([12.34.12.3]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user aquazoo) by webmail.patriot.net with HTTP; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 13:17:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <50365.12.34.12.3.1099070243.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <41827508.2090004@lavoltapress.com> References: <053D0259-2911-11D9-A2E0-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com><003101c4bd45$276e4e30$0300a8c0@MOM> <41818B98.5050207@lavoltapress.com> <41827508.2090004@lavoltapress.com> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 13:17:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hobbits Found From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/561/Fri Oct 29 04:26:00 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Fran said, > I'm not as below average as the fashion industry would have people think. This brings up another question - what percentage of the population is considered "average"? most data will fall into a bell curve, so how is above and below average calculated? And, of course, "average" is a smaller group than "normal". -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 29 13:28:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9THSMv3031598 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 13:28:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9THRc4a002831 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:27:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9THQOa9058567; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:26:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9THQLa9058486 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:26:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.e8.510c038 (4380) for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 13:26:11 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 13:26:11 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] linen wool for tudor clothing To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10718 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't know this earlier period as well, but 18th and early 19th century garments generally have undyed linen linings--perhaps partly because linen is rather difficult to dye, and why bother for something that isn't going to show? Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 29 13:32:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9THW9Xt031635 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 13:32:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9THUv4a003212 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:30:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9THTha9061305; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:29:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9THTeaA061239 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:29:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-225.sonic.net [209.148.114.225]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i9THTbw3023174 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:29:38 -0700 Message-ID: <41827E05.8080906@lavoltapress.com> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:29:41 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hobbits Found References: <053D0259-2911-11D9-A2E0-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com><003101c4bd45$276e4e30$0300a8c0@MOM> <41818B98.5050207@lavoltapress.com> <41827508.2090004@lavoltapress.com> <010001c4bdd9$fb4c21c0$c2b6eb40@yourzpvq75jcr6> In-Reply-To: <010001c4bdd9$fb4c21c0$c2b6eb40@yourzpvq75jcr6> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've gotten inured to the standard skirt and pants-hemming jobs. I've developed a craze for modern ponchos, and I'm buying them NOW. Nobody makes them in petites, but the short ones look perfect. Whether it's the colder season or just style, manufacturers are lengthening them. They are rapidly getting to look too long proportionally even though a range of lengths is acceptable. The other thing I'm finding perfect is the short fur stoles from the 60s?; the ones that are about a foot deep and wrap around the shoulders. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming Two new books of patterns 1877-1882! http://www.lavoltapress.com > > Well, I'm 5'0", with stubby legs, and I'd croak if I ever found a pair > of pants that FIT. I just bought a pair of jeans that are marked > petite, and they are inches too long. grrrr > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 29 13:41:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9THfbGD031754 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 13:41:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9THex4a004485 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:40:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9THdfa9069331; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:39:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.mc.surewest.net (smtp2.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.51]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9THdZa9069277 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:39:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-30561); Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:39:35 -0700 Received: from unknown (64.30.124.24) by smtp2.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:39:34 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20041029103735.00d3d680@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:39:07 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] linen wool for tudor clothing In-Reply-To: <20041029171138.51773.qmail@web51406.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200410291618.i9TGH0aB001501@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp2.mc.surewest.net SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=64.30.124.24 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:11 AM 10/29/2004 -0700, you wrote: >I am lining a few 1560 garments (a gown and a doublet) I am using >chocolate wool flannel and would like to line them with linen. Should I >dye the linen chocolate or is it appropriate to leave it white. These are >merchant garments and will not be very "fancy" (i.e encrusted with gold >embroidery or paired with velvet) > >Thank you thank you, Angelique Unless the linings will show, I would not bother to dye them. In any case, I'd worry about the dye transferring to my white linen undergarments. Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 29 13:45:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9THjREh031787 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 13:45:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9THhV4a004803 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:43:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9THgKa9071581; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:42:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9THeNaA069795 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:40:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i9THp3Fs025518 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 13:51:04 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20041029103650.00bc59f0@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:40:14 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hobbits Found In-Reply-To: <010001c4bdd9$fb4c21c0$c2b6eb40@yourzpvq75jcr6> References: <053D0259-2911-11D9-A2E0-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> <003101c4bd45$276e4e30$0300a8c0@MOM> <41818B98.5050207@lavoltapress.com> <41827508.2090004@lavoltapress.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm 5'11 and have just the opposite problem . I think the only answer for us that don't fit the industry stereotype is to sew our own clothes. BTW, I'm curious about the difference between the 'Hobbit's and ordinary African Pygmies. It seems to me to be a tempest in an academic teapot ... As always, my opinion, Katie >Yes, the fashion industry assumes that all women are 5'7" tall, with long >legs. >Well, I'm 5'0", with stubby legs, and I'd croak if I ever found a pair of >pants that FIT. I just bought a pair of jeans that are marked petite, and >they are inches too long. grrrr >Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 29 14:13:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9TIDCQs032125 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 14:13:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TICO4a008194 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Oct 2004 12:12:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TIB8a9095892; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 12:11:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp3.suscom.net (smtp3.suscom.net [64.78.119.250]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TI87aA093186 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 12:08:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp3.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4C26DBC06 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 14:07:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip194.182.235.64.susc.suscom.net [64.235.182.194]) by smtp3.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 0F1CADBC12 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 14:07:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <016f01c4bde2$324c5b60$c2b6eb40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <053D0259-2911-11D9-A2E0-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com><003101c4bd45$276e4e30$0300a8c0@MOM> <41818B98.5050207@lavoltapress.com> <41827508.2090004@lavoltapress.com><010001c4bdd9$fb4c21c0$c2b6eb40@yourzpvq75jcr6> <41827E05.8080906@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hobbits Found Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 14:07:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net X-DCC-sonic.net-Metrics: net.indra.com 1117; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavolta Press" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 1:29 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hobbits Found > I've gotten inured to the standard skirt and pants-hemming jobs. I actually started sewing so I could make my own clothes. Unfortunately, I can't remember the last time I made something that was worn after about 1575... > > I've developed a craze for modern ponchos, and I'm buying them NOW. > Nobody makes them in petites, but the short ones look perfect. Whether > it's the colder season or just style, manufacturers are lengthening them. > They are rapidly getting to look too long proportionally even though a > range of lengths is acceptable. Actually, my favorite poncho ever came down to about my knees, with six inch deep fringe below that, and a huge deep cowl neck, which I usually hate. That was a three season garment for me! Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 29 14:16:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9TIGnnP032141 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 14:16:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TIGE4a008544 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Oct 2004 12:16:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TIF2a9098857; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 12:15:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TI9BaA094088 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 12:09:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-225.sonic.net [209.148.114.225]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i9TI94d1004052 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:09:04 -0700 Message-ID: <41828743.1070109@lavoltapress.com> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:09:07 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hobbits Found References: <053D0259-2911-11D9-A2E0-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com><003101c4bd45$276e4e30$0300a8c0@MOM> <41818B98.5050207@lavoltapress.com> <41827508.2090004@lavoltapress.com> <50365.12.34.12.3.1099070243.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <50365.12.34.12.3.1099070243.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here's a recent article from CNN.com, for whatever it's worth: http://www.cnn.com/2004/HEALTH/10/27/taller.heavier.ap/ And here's a lightweight encyclopedia article: http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Average%20height Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com aquazoo@patriot.net wrote: >Fran said, > > >>I'm not as below average as the fashion industry would have people think. >> >> > > This brings up another question - what percentage of the population >is considered "average"? most data will fall into a bell curve, so >how is above and below average calculated? > > And, of course, "average" is a smaller group than "normal". > > -Carol >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 29 14:33:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9TIXIEc032272 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 14:33:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TIWj4a009978 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Oct 2004 12:32:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TIVSa9012235; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 12:31:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (chori.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TIVNa9012111 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 12:31:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ldownward@chori.org) X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Sophos http://raeinternet.com/mpp Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP-TLS id 1592394 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:31:16 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.0.0.040405 Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:31:15 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ponchos, was Hobbits Found From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <016f01c4bde2$324c5b60$c2b6eb40@yourzpvq75jcr6> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My only poncho (circa 1968-69) was a Mexican woven poncho with white fringe which I wore as a skirt. The sides went down to my knees and the front was mid-shin. I thought I looked pretty cool with that, my black turtleneck sweater and a pair of black boots. LynnD > From: Dianne & Greg Stucki > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 14:07:47 -0400 > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hobbits Found > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lavolta Press" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 1:29 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hobbits Found > > >> I've gotten inured to the standard skirt and pants-hemming jobs. > > I actually started sewing so I could make my own clothes. Unfortunately, I > can't remember the last time I made something that was worn after about > 1575... >> >> I've developed a craze for modern ponchos, and I'm buying them NOW. >> Nobody makes them in petites, but the short ones look perfect. Whether >> it's the colder season or just style, manufacturers are lengthening them. >> They are rapidly getting to look too long proportionally even though a >> range of lengths is acceptable. > > Actually, my favorite poncho ever came down to about my knees, with six inch > deep fringe below that, and a huge deep cowl neck, which I usually hate. > That was a three season garment for me! > > Dianne > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 29 14:54:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9TIslAa032581 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 14:54:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TIrl4a011787 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Oct 2004 12:53:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TIrea9029539; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 12:53:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:7O5ewb6MFRsiON57wjMsv9OmmU9q/Pvw@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TIrba9029414 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 12:53:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from webmail.patriot.net (vanburen.patriot.net [209.249.176.8]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id i9TIrWnr004704 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 14:53:32 -0400 Received: from dci012034012003.discovery.com ([12.34.12.3]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user aquazoo) by webmail.patriot.net with HTTP; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 14:53:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <50814.12.34.12.3.1099076012.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <41828743.1070109@lavoltapress.com> References: <053D0259-2911-11D9-A2E0-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com><003101c4bd45$276e4e30$0300a8c0@MOM> <41818B98.5050207@lavoltapress.com> <41827508.2090004@lavoltapress.com><50365.12.34.12.3.1099070243.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> <41828743.1070109@lavoltapress.com> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 14:53:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hobbits Found From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Fran, I was thinking more of statistics - on a bell curve there's a certain percentage that's average, then highs and lows, and the extremes on the ends. I thought there were five groupings in all. -Carol > Here's a recent article from CNN.com, for whatever it's worth: > > http://www.cnn.com/2004/HEALTH/10/27/taller.heavier.ap/ > > And here's a lightweight encyclopedia article: > > http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Average%20height > > Fran > Lavolta Press > http://www.lavoltapress.com > > aquazoo@patriot.net wrote: > >>Fran said, >> >> >>>I'm not as below average as the fashion industry would have people >>> think. >>> >>> >> >> This brings up another question - what percentage of the population >>is considered "average"? most data will fall into a bell curve, so >>how is above and below average calculated? >> >> And, of course, "average" is a smaller group than "normal". >> >> -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 29 15:53:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9TJrR6H000807 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 15:53:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TJqi4a018141 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Oct 2004 13:52:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TJqYa9077340; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 13:52:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TJqUaA077294 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 13:52:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-15.sonic.net [209.148.114.15]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i9TJqTuJ008054 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 12:52:30 -0700 Message-ID: <41829F80.1050700@lavoltapress.com> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 12:52:32 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hobbits Found References: <053D0259-2911-11D9-A2E0-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com><003101c4bd45$276e4e30$0300a8c0@MOM> <41818B98.5050207@lavoltapress.com> <41827508.2090004@lavoltapress.com><50365.12.34.12.3.1099070243.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> <41828743.1070109@lavoltapress.com> <50814.12.34.12.3.1099076012.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <50814.12.34.12.3.1099076012.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Of course there's a height bell curve, and of course everyone is not in the middle of it. But I'm not at all sure what your question is. Or why you're asking me, as opposed to looking up the data as given by people who actually did the studies. Those articles are what I found at the top of a quick Google search. There are many others on the net. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com aquazoo@patriot.net wrote: >Hi Fran, > > I was thinking more of statistics - on a bell curve there's a certain >percentage that's average, then highs and lows, and the extremes on >the ends. I thought there were five groupings in all. > > -Carol > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 29 16:15:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9TKFdsh001010 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 16:15:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TKEr4a020295 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Oct 2004 14:14:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TKEka9094971; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 14:14:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-118.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TKEga9094883 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 14:14:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by mail.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D2CF425EA for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 15:45:20 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4182A495.4050501@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 15:14:13 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Vintage Clothing by Maryanne Dolan X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm interested in picking up a 2nd hand copy of this book, and I see that it has come out in three editions over the years. Can anyone here tell me if there is much variation among the editions (different photos, information) or if they are pretty much just reprints of one another? If I only wanted the book for photos of vintage clothing and not current pricing, would a 2nd edition (1987?) be as just useful as the new edition? Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 29 16:47:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9TKlpn4001385 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 16:47:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TKlQ4a023077 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Oct 2004 14:47:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TKlFa9019886; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 14:47:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f9.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TKlAa9019714 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 14:47:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 13:47:03 -0700 Received: from 129.244.6.222 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 20:46:11 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.222] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 15:46:11 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Oct 2004 20:47:03.0718 (UTC) FILETIME=[721BCC60:01C4BDF8] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Hobbits Found X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: Katie Pleasance >BTW, I'm curious about the difference between the 'Hobbit's and ordinary >African Pygmies. It seems to me to be a tempest in an academic teapot ... Homo Floresiensis (I refuse to refer to them as "Hobbits") are being reported as being derived from a population of Homo Erectus that over time appear to have developed a sort of regional dwarfism. The major distinguishing characteristics that differ from Pygmies are that Floresiensis appear to average about a meter in height (three feet), Pygmies are half again as tall. Pygmies live in Africa, Floresiensis lived in Indonesia. Pygmies developed sometime in the past several thousand years, probably from the ancestral Khoisan peoples of Africa (although there is a lot of debate here too), Floresiensis lived as recently as 18,000 years ago. Pygmies are also modern Homo Sapiens, it is likely that modern humans are more closely related to Neanderthal than to Flores, but it's a little early in the game to declare any absolutes there either :) There are other diminuative populations in the world who are similar to the Pygmies, names those tribal groups that used to be lumped together as "Negritos", and could be found in the Philippines, the Andaman Islands, the Malay Peninsula and Australia, although these also were clearly modern Homo Sapiens. If we note that some of these lived in the dame general regions as Floresiensis, we could debate whether they could be descended from Flores, or whether these peoples made similar adaptations to the environment that Floresiensis did. So, what's the difference between Sapiens and Erectus. If you are into that whole "Evolution" thing, and I am, Erectus are our ancestors. our grandparent species, as it were, and over the million and a half (more or less) that Erectus was around, several subspecies developed, and these are thought to have become separate species (e.g. Archaic H. Sapiens, Neandertal, Floresiensis among them). Does this help any? Marc _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 29 17:21:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9TLL4gI001756 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 17:21:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TLKH4a028182 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Oct 2004 15:20:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TLK9a9045830; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 15:20:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:QCThrdWWzXCzNYfHLfD+5ylcDUw0oz7c@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TLK6a9045739 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 15:20:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from webmail.patriot.net (vanburen.patriot.net [209.249.176.8]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id i9TLK1nr000418 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 17:20:01 -0400 Received: from dci012034012003.discovery.com ([12.34.12.3]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user aquazoo) by webmail.patriot.net with HTTP; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 17:20:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <51186.12.34.12.3.1099084801.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <41829F80.1050700@lavoltapress.com> References: <053D0259-2911-11D9-A2E0-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com><003101c4bd45$276e4e30$0300a8c0@MOM> <41818B98.5050207@lavoltapress.com> <41827508.2090004@lavoltapress.com><50365.12.34.12.3.1099070243.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> <41828743.1070109@lavoltapress.com><50814.12.34.12.3.1099076012.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> <41829F80.1050700@lavoltapress.com> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 17:20:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hobbits Found From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Since people are talking about average heights, it seemed worth considering the statistical idea of what is an average range. I'm only remembering it vaguely from a class years ago, and thought someone else on the list might know. But since no one else responded I figure they're not interested in discussing it from that angle. It was your comment about being below average in height that prompted it, but I didn't think you'd be the only one to respond. Oh well! -Carol > Of course there's a height bell curve, and of course everyone is not in > the middle of it. But I'm not at all sure what your question is. Or why > you're asking me, as opposed to looking up the data as given by people > who actually did the studies. Those articles are what I found at the > top of a quick Google search. There are many others on the net. > > Fran > Lavolta Press > http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 29 17:52:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9TLq6lL002069 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 17:52:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TLpS4a006951 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Oct 2004 15:51:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TLpPa9069828; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 15:51:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from lakermmtao07.cox.net (lakermmtao07.cox.net [68.230.240.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TLpMa9069717 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 15:51:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from vmaa2@cox.net) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.10.139.124]) by lakermmtao07.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.04 201-2131-111-106-20040729) with ESMTP id <20041029215111.ZLSA22771.lakermmtao07.cox.net@VMAAHQ> for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 17:51:11 -0400 From: "Linda Rice" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: Hobbits Found- Anthropology 101 Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 17:58:48 -0400 Message-ID: <004a01c4be02$780d3500$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, Marc- But please- what did they *wear*!!!!!!!! :-)) I won't even ask you what kind footwear they might have had! Thank you for the clear summation- it did help a lot! Pax, ::Linda:: {running and ducking- fast!} On Behalf Of Marc Carlson >From: Katie Pleasance >BTW, I'm curious about the difference between the 'Hobbit's and ordinary >African Pygmies. It seems to me to be a tempest in an academic teapot ... Homo Floresiensis (I refuse to refer to them as "Hobbits") are being reported as being derived from a population of Homo Erectus that over time appear to have developed a sort of regional dwarfism. So, what's the difference between Sapiens and Erectus. If you are into that whole "Evolution" thing, and I am, Erectus are our ancestors. our grandparent species, as it were, and over the million and a half (more or less) that Erectus was around, several subspecies developed, and these are thought to have become separate species (e.g. Archaic H. Sapiens, Neandertal, Floresiensis among them). Does this help any? Marc _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 29 18:19:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9TMJuP5002282 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:19:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TMJJ4a014829 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Oct 2004 16:19:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TMJDa9090877; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 16:19:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms4.lga2.nytimes.com (ms4.lga2.nytimes.com [199.239.138.148]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TMJBa9090619 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 16:19:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from webapps@lga2.nytimes.com) Received: from web39t.prvt.nytimes.com (web39t.prvt.nytimes.com [10.5.101.139]) by ms4.lga2.nytimes.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1617B222A for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:18:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by web39t.prvt.nytimes.com (Postfix, from userid 4040) id 5D1B184BD; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:18:55 -0400 (EDT) From: joanmj@surewest.net To: h-costume@net.indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20041029221855.5D1B184BD@web39t.prvt.nytimes.com> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:18:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] NYTimes.com Article: Art Review | 'Princely Splendor': Baubles of Awesome Refinement X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The article below from NYTimes.com has been sent to you by joanmj@surewest.net. I saw this article on the NYTimes web site. Makes me wish I lived near New York City. Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanmj@surewest.net /--------- E-mail Sponsored by Fox Searchlight ------------\ SIDEWAYS - NOW PLAYING IN SELECT CITIES An official selection of the New York Film Festival and the Toronto International Film Festival, SIDEWAYS is the new comedy from Alexander Payne, director of ELECTION and ABOUT SCHMIDT. Starring Paul Giamatti, Thomas Haden Church, Sandra Oh and Virginia Madsen. Watch the trailer at: http://www.foxsearchlight.com/sideways/index_nyt.html \----------------------------------------------------------/ Art Review | 'Princely Splendor': Baubles of Awesome Refinement October 29, 2004 By MICHAEL KIMMELMAN The Met's glittery display of tools, armor and sculpture from 17th-century Dresden is a constructive reminder of the artistic roots of wonderment. http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/29/arts/design/29kimm.html?ex=1100088335&ei=1&en=6dfd8d3a85cdb80a --------------------------------- Get Home Delivery of The New York Times Newspaper. Imagine reading The New York Times any time & anywhere you like! Leisurely catch up on events & expand your horizons. Enjoy now for 50% off Home Delivery! 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Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 29 19:50:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9TNo3wA003212 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 19:50:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TNnP4a005601 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Oct 2004 17:49:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TNnBa9050867; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 17:49:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TNnAa9050842 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 17:49:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9DDF16EB1 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 16:49:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041029163702.00b15de0@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 16:42:03 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hobbits Found In-Reply-To: <010001c4bdd9$fb4c21c0$c2b6eb40@yourzpvq75jcr6> References: <053D0259-2911-11D9-A2E0-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> <003101c4bd45$276e4e30$0300a8c0@MOM> <41818B98.5050207@lavoltapress.com> <41827508.2090004@lavoltapress.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 01:08 PM 10/29/2004 -0400, you wrote: >Well, I'm 5'0", with stubby legs, and I'd croak if I ever found a pair of >pants that FIT. I just bought a pair of jeans that are marked petite, and >they are inches too long. grrrr > >Dianne My mom is also 5'0" (she's Japanese/Ainu), and she wears my clothes from when I was a pre-teen, or her own hand sewn garments. She recently told me that those garments are now too large for her, as she's lost a lot of weight, relatively speaking - from 95 pds to 83 pds currently (she's recovering from cancer). She hates to shop at stores, except for nice shoes, and it is from her that I learned my sewing skills. She really could make anything from just a picture, and could just take a few key measurements and make anything fit perfectly. And while I thought Mom was small (I am 5'6"), I met an old Japanese friend of hers that is much smaller... about 4' or so, as my Mom stands a whole head or more taller than her friend. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 29 19:53:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9TNr8UH003235 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 19:53:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TNqY4a006449 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Oct 2004 17:52:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TNqVa9052655; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 17:52:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TNoqa9051867 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 17:50:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82CAF5E208 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 16:50:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041029164937.023800a0@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 16:50:50 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] image of Jane Grey? In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20041029090705.00d786c0@pop.surewest.net> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20041028170252.03cb99c8@64.87.54.245> <4684468.1098506259774.JavaMail.root@grover.psp.pas.earthli nk.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:13 AM 10/29/2004 -0700, you wrote: >The gown fabric in the "Jane Grey" picture ( >http://photos.ladybrooke.com/sca/images/velvettudorgown/janegrey.jpg ) >resembles the picture of Mary I by Hans Eworth (Portrait 23 in Roy >Strong's "The English Icon"). The pattern of the gown fabric is very >similar, though Mary is wearing a partlet of the same fabric, so you don't >see the low neckline. The pose is pretty much a standard one; in fact, >there is another portrait of Mary with the same pose by "Master John" >(Portrait 12, English Icon) dated 1544. > >Joan Jurancich >joanmj@surewest.net Thanks for the info. Another book of his I have to find/track down. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 29 19:53:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9TNrT2G003239 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 19:53:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TNqO4a006408 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Oct 2004 17:52:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TNqNa9052551; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 17:52:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9TNnBa9050855 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 17:49:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB23216583 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 16:49:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041029164220.038f0570@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 16:45:47 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] linen wool for tudor clothing In-Reply-To: <20041029171138.51773.qmail@web51406.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200410291618.i9TGH0aB001501@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:11 AM 10/29/2004 -0700, you wrote: >I am lining a few 1560 garments (a gown and a doublet) I am using >chocolate wool flannel and would like to line them with linen. Should I >dye the linen chocolate or is it appropriate to leave it white. These are >merchant garments and will not be very "fancy" (i.e encrusted with gold >embroidery or paired with velvet) > >Thank you thank you, Angelique Hi Angelique, Leave the lining linen white. Otherwise it can stain your white or light color chemises/shirts, especially if you sweat (glow). It won't show much, but if you are really concerned about certain areas showing (collar, cuffs, epaulettes, picadills, etc.), you can add a layer of colored silk or colored linen to match, but for merchant class I really wouldn't worry about it. Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 29 20:47:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9U0l2bZ003535 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 20:47:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9U0j84a017110 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:45:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9U0j4a9079969; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:45:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9U0j1a9079944 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:45:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m87.in-tch.com [216.166.191.87]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i9U0hWc18795 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:43:32 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <4182E521.4060800@in-tch.com> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:49:37 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] linen wool for tudor clothing References: <20041029171138.51773.qmail@web51406.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20041029171138.51773.qmail@web51406.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'd leave it whatever color the linen already is. Especially since linen can be pretty hard to dye decently. I've got the better part of a bolt of natural colored linen (7 oz) to use for linings. Dunno that I'd go for white, as I'd be afraid of getting it dirty. Of course, I get *everything* dirty! --sue, who also has some select "lining linen" in some completely obnoxious colors for some "fun" fitted gowns.....;o) ~Angelique wrote: > I am lining a few 1560 garments (a gown and a doublet) I am using > chocolate wool flannel and would like to line them with linen. Should > I dye the linen chocolate or is it appropriate to leave it white. > These are merchant garments and will not be very "fancy" (i.e > encrusted with gold embroidery or paired with velvet) > > Thank you thank you, Angelique > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 29 20:59:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9U0wtv8003587 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 20:59:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9U0wE4a017975 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:58:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9U0w8a9086488; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:58:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp813.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp813.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.170.83]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9U0w6a9086456 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:58:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net) Received: from unknown (HELO lazear1) (cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net@67.118.230.145 with login) by smtp813.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Oct 2004 00:58:04 -0000 Message-ID: <00a701c4be1b$96c342f0$0701a8c0@lazear1> From: "Cabbage Rose Costumes" To: "Historical Costume" References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3C06@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk><012701c4bc53$e885d950$0701a8c0@lazear1> <4c5accc8041027115471c1ea5a@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Portrait of Anna Maria Luisa de'Medici Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 17:58:37 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I believe that's the right woman, but not the right painting, although it's hard to tell from the size. I tried the virtual Uffizi, but without the correct title, I was unable to pull it up. I also couldn't tell from their "room" listings if the outer halls were among the sources of scans for perusal. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none: be able for thine enemy rather in power than use, and keep thy friend under thy own life's key: be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..." W. Shakespeare ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jacqueline Johnson" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 11:54 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Portrait of Anna Maria Luisa de'Medici > http://www.italiadonna.it/public/percorsi/biografie/imgs/004.jpg > If it's the Medici woman I think it was she was the last survivor of > the clan. You could also check the Virtual Uffizi and see if it's > there > http://www.arca.net/uffizi/ > > ============================ > Italian Ladies 2005 Calendar > http://www.lulu.com/kristalori > http://kristalori.com > http://snipurl.com/96f1 Dress Diaries > http://snipurl.com/9bir That 70's Trailer > ============================ > On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:36:43 -0700, Cabbage Rose Costumes > wrote: >> If any of you marvelous scholars can assist me in my quest I would be >> forever grateful. I was recently in Italy, and in the Uffizi Galleries. >> In >> the halls outside the main rooms there are many portraits. There was one >> of >> a stunning lady in a red gown, approximately 1720-30 I was informed by >> the >> docents that it is of Anna Maria Luisa de'Medici. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 29 21:03:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9U13iT0003602 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 21:03:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9U13D4a018281 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Oct 2004 19:03:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9U13Ca9089109; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 19:03:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.205]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9U13Aa9089034 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 19:03:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jacquelinejbump@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 50so10332wri for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:03:05 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=drh8w0GabAi8PxKTUrt8TD41Dx9h9QDmVhbaBOYEqNsFvE+L+qTf8QjZTIpwAwk7ArZY/D75SuFlgWXONEto7GDd6ZOm2aJN9tsgO7ZxZ7kcjZOd+1eKrOB+mZsagkjtiSdxjamYMt1XPMj30nHaCXlTE6QrBT3ZghZ8W0SDw+I= Received: by 10.38.150.32 with SMTP id x32mr3272426rnd; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:03:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.14.59 with HTTP; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:03:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4c5accc804102918032c36cfff@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 21:03:05 -0400 From: Jacqueline Johnson To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Portrait of Anna Maria Luisa de'Medici In-Reply-To: <00a701c4be1b$96c342f0$0701a8c0@lazear1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3C06@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> <012701c4bc53$e885d950$0701a8c0@lazear1> <4c5accc8041027115471c1ea5a@mail.gmail.com> <00a701c4be1b$96c342f0$0701a8c0@lazear1> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'd email them then. The Uffizi is fairly decent about taking pics of portraits for a small fee. ============================ Italian Ladies 2005 Calendar http://www.lulu.com/kristalori http://kristalori.com http://snipurl.com/96f1 Dress Diaries http://snipurl.com/9bir That 70's Trailer ============================ On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 17:58:37 -0700, Cabbage Rose Costumes wrote: > I believe that's the right woman, but not the right painting, although it's > hard to tell from the size. I tried the virtual Uffizi, but without the > correct title, I was unable to pull it up. I also couldn't tell from their > "room" listings if the outer halls were among the sources of scans for > perusal. > > angela > +++++ > Angela F. Lazear > Cabbage Rose Costumes > www.cabbagerosecostumes.com > Theatrical Costume Design _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 29 21:07:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9U17h8e003607 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 21:07:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9U17D4a018479 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Oct 2004 19:07:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9U17Ba9090948; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 19:07:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.202]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9U178a9090894 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 19:07:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from athurman@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 44so9309wri for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:07:03 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=a9pCkTWWmf/v6HqLZpzQ2ilO9HwNAEWdA+ET6lXOB0PgX1+XDVAQDxAgds+FFhfpmR9yDrrWSRJjaXE4+VDaQKIWm6qI4PzZhpQ3JIbv6g5Gyk7araN4ooRvxmhp64/2tGaecn2lgOtq7OznkJzqUoEpaTHlqm7FYslCrR3jujw= Received: by 10.38.150.44 with SMTP id x44mr3279229rnd; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:07:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.164.21 with HTTP; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:07:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7d21ac190410291807328d43c9@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 21:07:03 -0400 From: "A. Thurman" To: Historic Costume List Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Thoughts re: archaeology, grave-opening, etc. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just trying to get my own opinion in before this topic completely vanishes from the list: I agree with the notion of respecting the wishes of the still-living relatives. Beyond a couple of hundred years, my reasoning is, it's just a body, and there is no religious or traditional reason *not* to, as long as care is taken to restore the burial once the study is finished. The case of the Kennewick man has frustrated me since I first heard of it. On the one hand, I can understand where Native American peoples whose graves were ravaged by 19th century grave robbers/extremely amateur archaeologists would rather not see their ancestors' remains on display in a museum. At the same time, I'm hopping mad that the tribes in question wouldn't initially permit testing to see if it *was* one of their ancestors (I read about the discovery first in a book called "No Bone Unturned"; I found out later that a court later ruled for limited testing). Also, if the skeleton carbon dates to over 10,000 years ago, not only is it not related to any Native American tribes currently living, it's not related to *anyone* who knew Kennewick man personally - if care is taken, I don't think anyone can take it too personally. I disagree with the notion of opening a grave "just" for the clothing though - or just to look at the grave goods, or test the bones, etc. Any large excavation should allow for as much data gathering/testing/recording from as many disciplines as possible. Get as much data as possible the first time, and perhaps there will be less need or desire for repeated excavations of the same grave. Just my $.02 as an interested observer, not a professional archaeologist/pathologist in any way at all, Allison T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 29 21:09:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9U192CR003619 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 21:09:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9U18K4a018542 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Oct 2004 19:08:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9U18Ja9091434; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 19:08:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9U17Ta9090993 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 19:07:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.144.149]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i9U175w9006545 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 2004 11:07:14 +1000 Message-ID: <000f01c4be1c$a8cbb260$9590d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <31571165.1098895116020.JavaMail.root@bert.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Mummies not fuel was: Re: OT Archaeology shows (was:RE:[h-cost] Re: opening tombs and Medici Crypt program Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 14:31:18 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank and Tracy Thallas" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 2:38 AM Subject: Re: Mummies not fuel was: Re: OT Archaeology shows (was:RE:[h-cost] Re: opening tombs and Medici Crypt program > Thanks. I gotta stop buying what I see on "The Hitler Channel"... only that show claimed mummy-logs > on European trains, and unravelled to add wrappings to paper in the US. Alledgedly why we have brown paper bags today... > > Liadain A lot of mummies were unwrapped to find out what they were like inside, this made them much more susceptible to damage and even losing body parts (Sydney University's Ancient History Museum has a mummy head and foot probably from two different mummys) these days they avoid unwrapping them and use technology like X-rays and CT scans to find out what is under the bindings. Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole in OR in Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra, Australia ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 29 21:20:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9U1KZgC003642 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 21:20:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9U1Jp4a019328 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Oct 2004 19:19:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9U1Jja9096834; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 19:19:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.207]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9U1Jga9096777 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 19:19:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from athurman@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 50so11891wri for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:19:34 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=hty1yCiy+YSChghcoEQWpqtXjUKjpMZ7augOPeCoIITfgPVS4Dedf+hY78ZR5H8R8KSP4TW07XgWjQlhgZeNpo7FipQmKma2D1jmrFKO3PGKDboQ9yd+aaJvhevRFSi7K90/2VHjGV1WVqQJ+IglJSc6PNuGbWOUWhJ6Gnjn+fg= Received: by 10.38.209.71 with SMTP id h71mr3296644rng; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:19:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.164.21 with HTTP; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:19:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7d21ac1904102918197eaa5c9b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 21:19:34 -0400 From: "A. Thurman" To: Historic Costume List Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Treasures of Tutankhamen exhibit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm so excited that someone mentioned this exhibit on this list! It's the first museum exhibit I remember - I was about 4 and my parents were visiting family in Chicago. I remember how crowded it was, and I remember the huge death mask. Some years ago I found the catalog very cheap at half.com and picked it up, just because. One day I'm just going to have to go see it all again, but I suspect I'll need to go to Cairo for that! Allison T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 29 21:25:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9U1P8Pe003655 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 21:25:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9U1OV4a019570 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Oct 2004 19:24:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9U1OUa9098844; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 19:24:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9U1OSa9098823 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 19:24:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A6415D55B; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:24:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041029181100.023800a0@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:24:25 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com, CVCostumers@yahoogroups.com, isleofmannca@yahoogroups.com, GBACGCostumers@yahoogroups.com, PlusCostumeChat@yahoogroups.com, Courtesan@yahoogroups.com From: Kimiko Small Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] FYI, Renaissance Dancewear news X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all I apologize if you get post this multiple times. I just got info today that Stacey Leigh, the owner of Renaissance Dancewear of 15 years (and a former resident of Fresno and small faire patron), is going out of business at the end of the year. This really bums me, because I am really enjoying the tights I bought from her this year. They are the vented tights, and it really has made bathroom breaks much easier to deal with while wearing hoops. My husband has enjoyed his vented tights as well. We are definitely satisfied customers, but otherwise have no major connection to the company. But life does move on, and apparently so is Stacey. She notes that she will be accepting orders for tights until the end of November 2004. If you are interested, please order asap. Her wares are shown on her web site. She also says she is looking for someone who is interested in purchasing her business. If you are interested, please contact her. Renaissance Dancewear PO Box 313 Rising Sun, IN 47040 812-438-4114 rendance@renaissancedancewear.com http://www.renaissancedancewear.com Kimiko Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 29 21:42:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9U1gS7j003735 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 21:42:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9U1fs4a020412 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Oct 2004 19:41:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9U1fpa9006871; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 19:41:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9U1flaA006839 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 19:41:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-161.sonic.net [209.148.114.161]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i9U1fkkd014581 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:41:47 -0700 Message-ID: <4182F15D.5020308@lavoltapress.com> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:41:49 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hobbits Found References: <053D0259-2911-11D9-A2E0-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> <003101c4bd45$276e4e30$0300a8c0@MOM> <41818B98.5050207@lavoltapress.com> <41827508.2090004@lavoltapress.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20041029163702.00b15de0@64.87.54.245> In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20041029163702.00b15de0@64.87.54.245> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Since I live in a largely Oriental neighborhood, indeed a geographic area with a large Oriental population, I have a reasonable amount of company sizewise. Makes for a good petites selection (well, as good as it ever gets) in local department stores. The problem with making modern clothes is they're just not all that interesting to sew. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com > > > My mom is also 5'0" (she's Japanese/Ainu), and she wears my clothes > from when I was a pre-teen, or her own hand sewn garments. She > recently told me that those garments are now too large for her, as > she's lost a lot of weight, relatively speaking - from 95 pds to 83 > pds currently (she's recovering from cancer). She hates to shop at > stores, except for nice shoes, and it is from her that I learned my > sewing skills. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Oct 29 22:18:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9U2I6I3003852 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 22:18:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9U2HY4a022409 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Oct 2004 20:17:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9U2HKa9023217; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 20:17:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9U2HGa9023113 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 20:17:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.144.149]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i9U2H12M009115 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 2004 12:17:02 +1000 Message-ID: <009b01c4be26$6864fce0$9590d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.1.1.0.20041028170252.03cb99c8@64.87.54.245><4684468.1098506259774.JavaMail.root@grover.psp.pas.earthli nk.net> <5.2.1.1.0.20041029164937.023800a0@64.87.54.245> Subject: Re: [h-cost] image of Jane Grey? Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 12:15:31 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >The gown fabric in the "Jane Grey" picture ( > >http://photos.ladybrooke.com/sca/images/velvettudorgown/janegrey.jpg ) > >resembles the picture of Mary I by Hans Eworth (Portrait 23 in Roy > >Strong's "The English Icon"). The pattern of the gown fabric is very > >similar, though Mary is wearing a partlet of the same fabric, so you don't > >see the low neckline. Do you mean this one? http://tudorhistory.org/mary/maryred.jpg it's not the best scan of this portrait I've seen I've got a better copy on my hard drive but I don't know where I got it from. The brocade pattern is similar this sort of design is very popular in the 16th century but I'm pretty sure it's a different sort of fabric, Jane Grey's fabric looks like a voided velvet (I don't know whether the pile has been removed or it was only woven in at the appropriate places) Whereas Mary's appears to be a standard flat brocade. The pose is pretty much a standard one; in fact, > >there is another portrait of Mary with the same pose by "Master John" > >(Portrait 12, English Icon) dated 1544. > > > >Joan Jurancich > >joanmj@surewest.net Would that be http://www.marileecody.com/mary1.jpg ? it's what google turned up when I searched using the details you provided (Mary "master John" 1544) I agree that posing the hands in the portraits was very popular but it's also a way of showing off those sleeves to their best advantage. Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole in OR in Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra, Australia ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 30 00:28:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9U4S2Aq004431 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 2004 00:28:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9U4RP4a000166 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Oct 2004 22:27:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9U4R7a9082783; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 22:27:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f27.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.77]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9U4R5a9082728 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 22:27:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 21:27:00 -0700 Received: from 129.244.96.21 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 30 Oct 2004 04:26:54 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.96.21] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 23:26:54 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Oct 2004 04:27:00.0477 (UTC) FILETIME=[B30F0AD0:01C4BE38] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Hobbits Found X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: "Linda Rice" >Yes, Marc- But please- what did they *wear*!!!!!!!! :-)) I won't even ask >you what kind footwear >they might have had! >Thank you for the clear summation- it did help a lot! My pleasure - and t-tunics and tennis shoes - just like everyone else :) Marc _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfeeŽ Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 30 00:55:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9U4t2D6004533 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 2004 00:55:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9U4sW4a002062 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Oct 2004 22:54:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9U4sRa9096147; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 22:54:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065c28.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065c28.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.205]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9U4sOa9096109 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 22:54:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hardcorps@earthlink.net) Received: from daisy.psp.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.78.223]) by pop-a065c28.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CNlFv-0000yZ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 21:54:23 -0700 Message-ID: <9321758.1099112063612.JavaMail.root@daisy.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 21:54:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Frank and Tracy Thallas To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Mummies not fuel was: Re: OT Archaeology shows (was:RE:[h-cost] Re: opening tombs and Medici Crypt program Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'd think just bringing them to places like jolly old soggy England would be the beginning of the end, even without unwrapping! Aaaaaaaaaaa, the fungus.... Liadain A lot of mummies were unwrapped to find out what they were like inside, this made them much more susceptible to damage and even losing body parts (Sydney University's Ancient History Museum has a mummy head and foot probably from two different mummys) these days they avoid unwrapping them and use technology like X-rays and CT scans to find out what is under the bindings. Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole in OR in Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra, Australia ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 30 01:04:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9U54AY4004561 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 2004 01:04:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9U53e4a002579 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Oct 2004 23:03:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9U53ba9000458; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 23:03:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9U53YaA000438 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 23:03:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i9U5Btdc009730 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 2004 01:11:55 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Hobbits Found- Anthropology 101 Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 01:17:38 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <004a01c4be02$780d3500$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> In-Reply-To: <004a01c4be02$780d3500$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200410300117.38252.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 29 October 2004 5:58 pm, Linda Rice wrote: > Yes, Marc- But please- what did they *wear*!!!!!!!! :-)) I won't even ask > you what kind footwear they might have had! Ah, but if they were *real* hobbits, they wouldn't have worn "any* footwear. :-) -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 30 01:47:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9U5l3hT004995 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 2004 01:47:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9U5kR4a004875 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Oct 2004 23:46:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9U5kIa9020132; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 23:46:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9U5kGaA020090 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 23:46:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i9U5k8dE021143 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2004 22:46:13 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 22:58:48 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <51186.12.34.12.3.1099084801.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Heights was ] Hobbits Found X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From the Mediev-L academic e-mail list a poster mentioned this article on a study of medieval human height titled: "Men From Early Middle Ages Were Nearly As Tall As Modern People" From Science Daily. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/09/040902090552.htm The author felt that conditions and nutrition had the most to do with average human heights (middle of that bell curve). Regina _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 30 02:09:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9U69Bqi008102 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 2004 02:09:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9U6854a006028 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 30 Oct 2004 00:08:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9U685a9034734; Sat, 30 Oct 2004 00:08:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9U681a9034573 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 2004 00:08:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.144.86]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i9U67aTU019216 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 2004 16:07:45 +1000 Message-ID: <015201c4be46$a384e400$9590d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <00c001c4bc6e$fe1749a0$e03d88cf@hewlettt06rp0e> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: tombs, etc. Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 14:53:40 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >> That said, if I were to be dug up 500 years from now, I can only imagine > >> what a row it would cause when it was discovered that I was wearing > >> clothes > >> from > >> an era 400 years previous to when I supposedly died. > >> > >> > > Ha ha ha! Kimberley, you made my day! > > > > Gail Finke > > > Actually, I've been threatening to do that for years :) Hopefully, some > archaeology student in the future could get a thesis out of it. > > Susan Well why not? most people are burried in their best clothes, if your best clothes happen to be in the style of the 16th century you can use them *g* unfortunately most of us won't be buried in ideal conditions for textile preservation. Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole in OR in Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra, Australia ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 30 07:53:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9UBrquE007051 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 2004 07:53:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9UBr24a021659 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 30 Oct 2004 05:53:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9UBqla9054338; Sat, 30 Oct 2004 05:52:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9UBqiaA054309 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 30 Oct 2004 05:52:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i9UBnCTA015748 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 2004 07:49:12 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 30 Oct 2004 07:49:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <41838089.9000401@thibault.org> Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 07:52:41 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] More costume notes 1661 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://www.pepysdiary.com/archive/1661/10/29/index.php This day I put on my half cloth black stockings and my new coat of the fashion, which pleases me well, and with my beaver I was (after office was done) ready to go to my Lord Mayor’s feast, as we are all invited; -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 30 12:54:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9UGseVl009757 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 2004 12:54:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9UGrm4a019555 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 30 Oct 2004 10:53:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9UGraa9082980; Sat, 30 Oct 2004 10:53:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9UGrXa9082891 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 2004 10:53:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1CNwTi-000BSt-79 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 30 Oct 2004 16:53:22 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 20:33:06 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] More costume/theater notes 1661 References: <41817D97.9010903@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: <41817D97.9010903@thibault.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8;format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Do you have a feel for the equivalent cost of things in Pepys' time - 24 shillings for a belt, however fancy, sounds extortionate! but maybe my time-and-money sense is out? Jean Cynthia Virtue wrote >Another from the serialized Pepys diary: >http://www.pepysdiary.com/archive/1661/10/28/index.php > >"and they and I to the Theatre, and there saw “Argalus and >Parthenia,” where a woman acted Parthenia, and came afterwards on the >stage in men’s clothes, and had the best legs that ever I saw, and I >was very well pleased with it. Thence to the Ringo alehouse, and >thither sent for a belt-maker, and bought of him a handsome belt for >second mourning, which cost me 24s., and is very neat." > >cv >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 30 13:08:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9UH8sCM009915 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 2004 13:08:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9UH8O4a020411 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 30 Oct 2004 11:08:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9UH8Ka9090026; Sat, 30 Oct 2004 11:08:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm43.prodigy.net (ylpvm43-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9UH8Ia9089988 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 2004 11:08:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-88-211.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.88.211]) by ylpvm43.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9UH8Fp0021411 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 2004 13:08:16 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20041030100725.026f8b80@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 10:08:02 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] More costume notes 1661 In-Reply-To: <41838089.9000401@thibault.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >http://www.pepysdiary.com/archive/1661/10/29/index.php > >This day I put on my half cloth black stockings and my new coat of the >fashion, which pleases me well, and with my beaver I was (after office was >done) ready to go to my Lord Mayor's feast, as we are all invited; And, from that page: A nice, if overwhelming, description of how to make a beaver hat http://www.whiteoak.org/learning/furhat.htm CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 30 14:12:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9UICH51010579 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 2004 14:12:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9UIBj4a024569 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 30 Oct 2004 12:11:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9UIBaa9020763; Sat, 30 Oct 2004 12:11:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web25702.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web25702.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.10.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9UIBXa9020698 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 2004 12:11:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from smnco37@yahoo.co.uk) Message-ID: <20041030181128.33605.qmail@web25702.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [82.112.142.40] by web25702.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 30 Oct 2004 19:11:28 BST Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 19:11:28 +0100 (BST) From: julian wilson Subject: Re: [h-cost] More costume/theater notes 1661 To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have found a very useful money-value converter to bew the following online tool. There is apparently a great deal of serious economic research backing-up the Site. "How much is that worth Today" - < http://eh.net/hmit/ppowerbp/ > Julian Wilson, in "olde" Jersey, 15 miles off the French Coast Jean Waddie wrote: Do you have a feel for the equivalent cost of things in Pepys' time - 24 shillings for a belt, however fancy, sounds extortionate! but maybe my time-and-money sense is out? Jean Cynthia Virtue wrote >Another from the serialized Pepys diary: >http://www.pepysdiary.com/archive/1661/10/28/index.php > >"and they and I to the Theatre, and there saw “Argalus and >Parthenia,” where a woman acted Parthenia, and came afterwards on the >stage in men’s clothes, and had the best legs that ever I saw, and I >was very well pleased with it. Thence to the Ringo alehouse, and >thither sent for a belt-maker, and bought of him a handsome belt for >second mourning, which cost me 24s., and is very neat." > >cv >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 30 16:04:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9UK43aK011828 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 2004 16:04:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9UK3Q4a002109 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 30 Oct 2004 14:03:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9UK39a9074348; Sat, 30 Oct 2004 14:03:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f23.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.73]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9UK37a9074293 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 2004 14:03:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 30 Oct 2004 13:03:01 -0700 Received: from 129.244.96.45 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 30 Oct 2004 20:02:22 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.96.45] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 15:02:22 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Oct 2004 20:03:01.0881 (UTC) FILETIME=[75DD3690:01C4BEBB] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Heights was ] Hobbits Found X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO From: "Wanda Pease" >>From the Mediev-L academic e-mail list a poster mentioned this article on >>a study of medieval human >>height titled: "Men From Early Middle Ages Were Nearly As Tall As Modern >>People" From >>Science Daily. >http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/09/040902090552.htm >The author felt that conditions and nutrition had the most to do with >average human heights (middle of that bell curve). Just some bits. Looking at heights of cattle, the "early Middle Ages" (which is, as we know, the modern term for what was once called "the Dark Ages") cattle were about 1.12-1.15 meters high at the shoulder (compared to the average to 1.5 meters for today). This dropped to 1. 09 meters in the High Middle Ages, and popped back up to 1.2 meters in the post medieval period. I am told that recently at the Shoes in History conference in Zlin last month, a presentation demonstrated that most medieval shoes found were childrens shoes, based on the the soles. Medieval shoe soles are frequently going to be significantly smaller than the shoe's actual size (it has to do with the shape of the last, and the use of the welt to extend the soles' size -- if you are just measuring the sole, you aren't going to get the whole size). So it's entirely possible that medieval people were "nearly" as tall as modern people. Marc _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! hthttp://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 30 16:19:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9UKJYOB012083 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 2004 16:19:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9UKJ04a002983 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 30 Oct 2004 14:19:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9UKIna9081716; Sat, 30 Oct 2004 14:18:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9UKIia9081656 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 2004 14:18:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1CNzgP-0008EQ-9e for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 30 Oct 2004 20:18:42 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 21:18:16 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] More costume/theater notes 1661 References: <20041030181128.33605.qmail@web25702.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20041030181128.33605.qmail@web25702.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8;format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD>) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/564/Fri Oct 29 08:58:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks! For your interest, it came up at 124 pounds. Still extremely expensive in my book, but within reason if it was decorated, maybe with elaborate fittings. (for my main period, 12th century, it came out at nearly a thousand pounds!) Jean julian wilson wrote >I have found a very useful money-value converter to bew the following >online tool. There is apparently a great deal of serious economic >research backing-up the Site. >"How much is that worth Today" - < http://eh.net/hmit/ppowerbp/ > >Julian Wilson, >in "olde" Jersey, >15 miles off the French Coast > >Jean Waddie wrote: >Do you have a feel for the equivalent cost of things in Pepys' time - 24 >shillings for a belt, however fancy, sounds extortionate! but maybe my >time-and-money sense is out? > >Jean > > > >Cynthia Virtue wrote >>Another from the serialized Pepys diary: >>http://www.pepysdiary.com/archive/1661/10/28/index.php >> >>"and they and I to the Theatre, and there saw “Argalus and >>Parthenia,â€? where a woman acted Parthenia, and came afterwards on the >>stage in men’s clothes, and had the best legs that ever I saw, and I >>was very well pleased with it. Thence to the Ringo alehouse, and >>thither sent for a belt-maker, and bought of him a handsome belt for >>second mourning, which cost me 24s., and is very neat." >> >>cv >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 30 21:28:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9V1SKQ6013942 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 2004 21:28:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9V1Q84a022526 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 30 Oct 2004 19:26:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9V1PAFL028619; Sat, 30 Oct 2004 19:25:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9V1P7FL028511 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 2004 19:25:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.144.250]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i9V1Os1R023141 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 12:24:54 +1100 Message-ID: <001c01c4bee8$491c5460$fa90d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <9321758.1099112063612.JavaMail.root@daisy.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 11:34:09 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/565/Sat Oct 30 07:31:13 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/565/Sat Oct 30 07:31:13 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Mummies not fuel was: Re: OT Archaeology shows X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Actually that was one of the things I noticed when I lived in England, coming from a relatively dry environment (inland Australia not quite the desert but pretty dry) I was stunned to see how quickly food went moldy. I imagine it would be much the same for any organic material which is why important things are kept in special climate controlled areas. Elizabeth > > I'd think just bringing them to places like jolly old soggy England would be the beginning > of the end, even without unwrapping! Aaaaaaaaaaa, the fungus.... > > Liadain > > > > A lot of mummies were unwrapped to find out what they were like inside, this > made them much more susceptible to damage _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 30 23:17:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9V3HRa8014345 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 2004 23:17:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9V3Gn4a028132 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 30 Oct 2004 21:16:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9V3GfFL071263; Sat, 30 Oct 2004 21:16:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9V3GbFL071129 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 2004 21:16:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.145.23]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id i9V3GNxj027730 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 14:16:24 +1100 Message-ID: <000001c4bef7$dc6c4860$1791d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Heights was ] Hobbits Found Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 14:12:03 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/565/Sat Oct 30 07:31:13 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/565/Sat Oct 30 07:31:13 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I am told that recently at the Shoes in History conference in Zlin last > month, a presentation demonstrated that most medieval shoes found were > childrens shoes, based on the the soles. Medieval shoe soles are frequently > going to be significantly smaller than the shoe's actual size (it has to do > with the shape of the last, and the use of the welt to extend the soles' > size -- if you are just measuring the sole, you aren't going to get the > whole size). Well it does make sense that children's shoes would be outgrown before they are worn out, thus making them more likely to survive. Although kids are usually harder on their clothing (and shoes) than adults if they hit a growth spurt they can outgrow things incredibly quickly. Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole in OR in Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra, Australia ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 31 01:14:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9V6E0IL015448 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 01:14:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9V6D94a007499 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 31 Oct 2004 00:13:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9V6CvFL037301; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 00:12:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9V6CtFL037242 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 00:12:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from webwarren@earthlink.net) Received: from cottontail.webwarren.com (pcp09760503pcs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.38.25.187]) by webwarren.com (8.12.10/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i9V6CjnU029683 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 01:12:46 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.0.20041031014754.0642f948@earthlink.net> X-Sender: n2kye@mail.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 01:10:28 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Re: tombs, etc. In-Reply-To: <200410301157.i9UBv2aA055794@net.indra.com> References: <200410301157.i9UBv2aA055794@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/565/Sat Oct 30 07:31:13 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/565/Sat Oct 30 07:31:13 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At Sat, 30 Oct 2004 14:53:40 +1000, "Elizabeth Walpole" wrote: >...most people are burried in their best clothes, Depends on culture and religion. Jews are buried in linen shrouds that are sewn around the corpse -- not in day clothes or "Sunday Bests" -- and buried in wooden coffins which are designed *to* disintegrate. Other religions and cultures have other customs for the disposal of corpses. It seems to me that in the absence of other corroborating evidence (such as portraiture and written records in the case of the Medicis), the only cultural clues that examination of deliberately-buried corpses can tell us are: (1) at that time or some time prior to burial, technology existed somewhere within that culture's trading radius to produce the grave goods found with the corpse (any extant textiles included), and (2) the burial customs of that culture *may* include a variant that prescribes the observed states of preservation of the tomb or crypt, the coffin or sarcophagus, the corpse entire, any excised portions of the corpse buried with the corpse, the state of embalming of the corpse, the attire of the corpse, and any other grave goods found with the corpse. I say "may", because in the absence of multiple examples from the same place, time, and culture, it is possible that that particular burial was idiosyncratic. (BTW, I am of the "let the dead rest in peace" school -- as curious as I might be about how and why someone or some culture died, or what textiles they wore, their bodies should not be exhumed nor physical samples taken. Eventually we will develop sufficiently nondestructive testing methods to be able to examine these people and the remnants of their lives and cultures without disturbing their eternal rests.) Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 31 06:16:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9VBGFbg028818 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 06:16:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9VBFU4a025825 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 31 Oct 2004 04:15:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9VBFGFL050600; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 04:15:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9VBFCFL050559 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 04:15:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fbc.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.188]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 1291547FEE1 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 12:15:06 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000801c4bf3a$e97d5510$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 12:15:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/565/Sat Oct 30 07:31:13 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/565/Sat Oct 30 07:31:13 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] OT./ checking a website X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Sorry about this off topic, but is there a kind soal who can help me with something. I am taking out files from my homepage wich are old and i think my ftp server is making me a trick. Would someone please check if this site still is on my homepage? http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/caraco_jacket.htm I dont know if it is my computer wich is tricking me, but my ftp server says this site isnt there, but i get it on my browser. What is going on? Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 31 06:32:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9VBW3ZD028898 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 06:32:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9VBVT4a029110 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 31 Oct 2004 04:31:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9VBVQFL058186; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 04:31:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (mta05-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9VBVOFL058156 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 04:31:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jill@jigrah.co.uk) Received: from HP411.jigrah.co.uk ([80.6.241.239]) by mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with ESMTP id <20041031112813.MVRI28128.mta05-svc.ntlworld.com@HP411.jigrah.co.uk>; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 11:28:13 +0000 Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20041031112937.00b849a0@pop.oneandone.co.uk> X-Sender: pt8296337-1938@pop.oneandone.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 11:31:37 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jill Hadfield Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT./ checking a website In-Reply-To: <000801c4bf3a$e97d5510$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-13E7204; boundary="=======3A4E24E1=======" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/565/Sat Oct 30 07:31:13 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/565/Sat Oct 30 07:31:13 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --=======3A4E24E1======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-13E7204; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello Bjarne I got it on mine as well Jill At 12:15 31/10/2004 +0100, you wrote: >Hi, >Sorry about this off topic, but is there a kind soal who can help me with >something. >I am taking out files from my homepage wich are old and i think my ftp >server is making me a trick. >Would someone please check if this site still is on my homepage? >http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/caraco_jacket.htm > >I dont know if it is my computer wich is tricking me, but my ftp server >says this site isnt there, but i get it on my browser. >What is going on? > >Bjarne > > > > >Leif og Bjarne Drews >www.my-drewscostumes.dk > >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > JiGraH Resources - www.jigrah.co.uk --=======3A4E24E1======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --=======3A4E24E1=======-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 31 06:36:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9VBaKwL028908 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 06:36:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9VBZo4a029861 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 31 Oct 2004 04:35:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9VBZnFL059954; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 04:35:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9VBZjFM059934 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 04:35:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i9VBWCTA028973 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 06:32:12 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 06:32:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4184CE10.2090608@thibault.org> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 06:35:44 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT./ checking a website References: <000801c4bf3a$e97d5510$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <000801c4bf3a$e97d5510$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/565/Sat Oct 30 07:31:13 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/565/Sat Oct 30 07:31:13 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Would someone please check if this site still is on my homepage? > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/caraco_jacket.htm It came up on my computer. cv _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 31 11:01:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9VG1hHv030957 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 11:01:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9VG0Z4a017714 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 31 Oct 2004 09:00:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9VG0FFL083872; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 09:00:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.mc.surewest.net (smtp2.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.51]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9VG0AFL083770 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 09:00:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-26697); Sun, 31 Oct 2004 08:00:04 -0800 Received: from unknown (64.30.124.24) by smtp2.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 08:00:02 -0800 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20041031075838.00d38b30@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 07:59:31 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT./ checking a website In-Reply-To: <000801c4bf3a$e97d5510$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp2.mc.surewest.net SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=64.30.124.24 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/565/Sat Oct 30 07:31:13 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/565/Sat Oct 30 07:31:13 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:15 PM 10/31/2004 +0100, you wrote: >Hi, >Sorry about this off topic, but is there a kind soal who can help me with >something. >I am taking out files from my homepage wich are old and i think my ftp >server is making me a trick. >Would someone please check if this site still is on my homepage? >http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/caraco_jacket.htm > >I dont know if it is my computer wich is tricking me, but my ftp server >says this site isnt there, but i get it on my browser. >What is going on? > >Bjarne > >Leif og Bjarne Drews >www.my-drewscostumes.dk > >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ I just went to the site, and it's still there. It can't be just your computer. Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 31 11:44:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9VGi8dC031251 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 11:44:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9VGhG4a020752 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 31 Oct 2004 09:43:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9VGhCFL005963; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 09:43:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9VGh8FL005883 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 09:43:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gia_gavino@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.115 ([204.127.197.115]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <2004103116430301400s9004e>; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 16:43:03 +0000 Received: from [24.16.244.181] by 204.127.197.115; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 16:43:00 +0000 From: gia_gavino@comcast.net (Elena O'Tighearnaigh) To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT./ checking a website Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 16:43:00 +0000 Message-Id: <103120041643.12432.418516140004997D000030902200735834010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Sep 14 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: Z2lhX2dhdmlub0Bjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/565/Sat Oct 30 07:31:13 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/565/Sat Oct 30 07:31:13 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I funno why you get that ftp error message, but I get the page with all the *gloriously* breathtakingly gorgeous pictures. You are *so* inspiring! I *adore* your work! -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > Hi, > Sorry about this off topic, but is there a kind soal who can help me with > something. > I am taking out files from my homepage wich are old and i think my ftp > server is making me a trick. > Would someone please check if this site still is on my homepage? > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/caraco_jacket.htm > > I dont know if it is my computer wich is tricking me, but my ftp server says > this site isnt there, but i get it on my browser. > What is going on? > > Bjarne > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 31 12:03:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9VH3E0h031355 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 12:03:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9VH214a022195 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 31 Oct 2004 10:02:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9VH1dFL015347; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 10:01:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9VH1ZFL015284 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 10:01:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fbc.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.188]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id ECB46262886 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 18:01:31 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001a01c4bf6b$4f0ceeb0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 18:01:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/565/Sat Oct 30 07:31:13 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/565/Sat Oct 30 07:31:13 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] tool for bending passing thread X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Does any of you know what the tool you use to bend gold passing thread is called? I need such a one, i have seen it, but i forgot the name. When you outline embroidery with gold passing thread, the thread needs to be bended at sharp corners. It is a very stiff metallic thread, and it is difficult to do it! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 31 12:30:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9VHUUa3031488 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 12:30:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9VHTg4a024557 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 31 Oct 2004 10:29:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9VHTbFL031014; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 10:29:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9VHTYFL030973 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 10:29:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m19.in-tch.com [216.166.191.19]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id i9VHS0c26577 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 10:28:01 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <4185220F.1090507@in-tch.com> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 10:34:07 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT./ checking a website References: <5.0.2.1.0.20041031112937.00b849a0@pop.oneandone.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20041031112937.00b849a0@pop.oneandone.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/565/Sat Oct 30 07:31:13 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/565/Sat Oct 30 07:31:13 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It shows up just fine with my browser as well. (I'm using Netscape.) --sue Jill Hadfield wrote: > Hello Bjarne > > I got it on mine as well > > Jill > > At 12:15 31/10/2004 +0100, you wrote: > >> Hi, >> Sorry about this off topic, but is there a kind soal who can help me >> with something. >> I am taking out files from my homepage wich are old and i think my ftp >> server is making me a trick. >> Would someone please check if this site still is on my homepage? >> http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/caraco_jacket.htm >> >> I dont know if it is my computer wich is tricking me, but my ftp >> server says this site isnt there, but i get it on my browser. >> What is going on? >> >> Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 31 12:35:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9VHZP88031508 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 12:35:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9VHYd4a024890 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 31 Oct 2004 10:34:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9VHYYFL033484; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 10:34:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mxsf25.cluster1.charter.net (mxsf25.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.225]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9VHYVFL033386 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 10:34:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fox3785@charter.net) Received: from mxip07.cluster1.charter.net (mxip07a.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.137]) by mxsf25.cluster1.charter.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i9VHYPOr026388 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 12:34:25 -0500 Received: from cpe-66-189-112-98.ma.charter.com (HELO familyroom) (66.189.112.98) by mxip07.cluster1.charter.net with ESMTP; 31 Oct 2004 12:34:25 -0500 X-Ironport-AV: i="3.86,112,1096862400"; d="scan'208"; a="388502007:sNHT13455020" From: "The Foxes" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] tool for bending passing thread Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 12:34:30 -0500 Message-ID: <004901c4bf6f$e0a6f650$0302a8c0@familyroom> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <001a01c4bf6b$4f0ceeb0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/565/Sat Oct 30 07:31:13 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/565/Sat Oct 30 07:31:13 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Mellore, I think is the word you are looking for. http://www.berlinembroidery.com/tools.htm#mellore Good luck Eleanor -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 12:02 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] tool for bending passing thread Hi, Does any of you know what the tool you use to bend gold passing thread is called? I need such a one, i have seen it, but i forgot the name. When you outline embroidery with gold passing thread, the thread needs to be bended at sharp corners. It is a very stiff metallic thread, and it is difficult to do it! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 31 12:55:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9VHtFi7031618 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 12:55:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9VHsW4a026270 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 31 Oct 2004 10:54:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9VHsSFL043792; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 10:54:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm15.prodigy.net (ylpvm15-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.46]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9VHsPFL043765 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 10:54:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-72-244.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.72.244]) by ylpvm15.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9VHsQqb015810 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 12:54:27 -0500 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20041031093038.0326c110@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 09:31:04 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] tool for bending passing thread In-Reply-To: <001a01c4bf6b$4f0ceeb0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/565/Sat Oct 30 07:31:13 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/565/Sat Oct 30 07:31:13 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Does any of you know what the tool you use to bend gold passing thread is >called? I need such a one, i have seen it, but i forgot the name. >When you outline embroidery with gold passing thread, the thread needs to >be bended at sharp corners. It is a very stiff metallic thread, and it is >difficult to do it! Is it a tramming needle? But I think any large needle should do. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 31 13:00:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9VI01Dc031640 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 13:00:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9VHxM4a026527 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 31 Oct 2004 10:59:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9VHxMFL046186; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 10:59:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-dav3.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.46.107]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9VHt6FL044072 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 10:55:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 09:55:00 -0800 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by BAY9-DAV3.phx.gbl with DAV; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 17:54:53 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001a01c4bf6b$4f0ceeb0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] tool for bending passing thread Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 12:55:32 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Oct 2004 17:55:00.0915 (UTC) FILETIME=[BE109030:01C4BF72] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/565/Sat Oct 30 07:31:13 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/565/Sat Oct 30 07:31:13 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Hi, > Does any of you know what the tool you use to bend gold passing thread is > called? I need such a one, i have seen it, but i forgot the name. > When you outline embroidery with gold passing thread, the thread needs to be > bended at sharp corners. It is a very stiff metallic thread, and it is > difficult to do it! > > Bjarne Would you be thinking of such a tool? http://www.berlinembroidery.com/tools.htm#mellore _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 31 15:01:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9VK1enR000490 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 15:01:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9VK0U4a007950 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 31 Oct 2004 13:00:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9VK0GFL015015; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 13:00:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (e-smtp.socket.net [216.106.88.132]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9VK0FFL014975 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 13:00:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96EEC2C035 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 14:00:12 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t2p712.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.218.205]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 8A6DDC59A for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 14:00:11 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] need millinery supplies Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 14:00:30 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <003501c4bdd4$ab2101c0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/565/Sat Oct 30 07:31:13 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/565/Sat Oct 30 07:31:13 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am not 100% sure but usually straw hat were worn in the spring and summer. wool felted hats were fall and winter. I think one of the major patterns makers has a pattern for a caroler's bonnet. Don't have the time right now to look. De -----Original Message----- Hi Grace~ Not sure if this is what you are looking for, but its straw, and it's cheap! As to fast, I really don't know, I've not used this supplier. http://www.hatsupply.com/costume_hats.htm Scroll all the way to the bottom. HTH- ::Linda:: -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of Grace Morris [h-cost] need millinery supplies I usually sew an earlier time period, but now I find that I need to come up with a "Victorian" caroling outfit in pretty quick order. Nothing fancy, just nice enough to earn $$ over the holiday season. I'm in need of a basic straw hat base--I can handle all the decorating myself. Can anyone recommend a fast, on-line supplier? Grace/Jessamyn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 31 15:27:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9VKRDOi000819 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 15:27:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9VKQW4a009941 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 31 Oct 2004 13:26:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9VKQSFL028529; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 13:26:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9VKQOFL028368 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 13:26:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fbc.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.188]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 2FAF247FEB7 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 21:26:11 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000501c4bf87$eea1ae40$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 21:26:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/565/Sat Oct 30 07:31:13 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/565/Sat Oct 30 07:31:13 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] mellore X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Yes it was a Mellore, thanks for helping me out with this. Only thing when i look at such a thing, i could just as well use a big wool needle. Dont make the big difference sort of............ Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 31 15:31:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9VKVs9d000859 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 15:31:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9VKVJ4a010438 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 31 Oct 2004 13:31:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9VKVHFL031416; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 13:31:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9VKSbFL029918 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 13:28:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fbc.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.188]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 96DC25EE0C8 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 21:28:36 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000901c4bf88$45dbd9b0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 21:29:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/565/Sat Oct 30 07:31:13 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/565/Sat Oct 30 07:31:13 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Elizabethan embroidery X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, My making of the stomacher for the new dress i make, i wondered. I think i could make some lovely embroidered Elizabethan stomachers. Do you think there would be a market for this? If i put up some examples on my homepage? Perhaps there would be many american reenactors that would be interrested in this? Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 31 16:04:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9VL4Kmb001154 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 16:04:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9VL3i4a012653 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 31 Oct 2004 14:03:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9VL3YFL048550; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 14:03:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.187]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i9VL3WFL048526 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 14:03:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net) Received: from unknown (HELO lazear1) (cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net@67.118.230.145 with login) by smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Oct 2004 21:03:31 -0000 Message-ID: <006301c4bf8d$5ed1acb0$0701a8c0@lazear1> From: "Cabbage Rose Costumes" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000901c4bf88$45dbd9b0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan embroidery Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 13:05:37 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/565/Sat Oct 30 07:31:13 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/565/Sat Oct 30 07:31:13 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have often thought it would be a good market for handwork, which is also my specialty. It's just the thing to really spruce up a dress, and you do such an amazing job! It's small and portable, so shipping isn't prohibitive, and there are many ladies out there who do not do handwork but do everything else. It's worth a try. Do a few pics of the ones you've already made, decide what the price(s) should be and see if you get any nibbles (that's slang for offers from customers)! angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none: be able for thine enemy rather in power than use, and keep thy friend under thy own life's key: be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..." W. Shakespeare ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 12:29 PM Subject: [h-cost] Elizabethan embroidery > Hi, > My making of the stomacher for the new dress i make, i wondered. > I think i could make some lovely embroidered Elizabethan stomachers. > Do you think there would be a market for this? > If i put up some examples on my homepage? Perhaps there would be many > american reenactors that would be interrested in this? > > Bjarne > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 31 16:17:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9VLHvMY001259 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 16:17:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9VLHJ4a013923 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 31 Oct 2004 14:17:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9VLHGFL056312; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 14:17:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9VLH7FL056151 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 14:17:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gia_gavino@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.113 ([204.127.197.113]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <2004103121165301300c01p5e>; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 21:16:53 +0000 Received: from [24.16.244.181] by 204.127.197.113; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 21:16:52 +0000 From: gia_gavino@comcast.net (Elena O'Tighearnaigh) To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan embroidery Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 21:16:52 +0000 Message-Id: <103120042116.26708.4185564400085A98000068542200745672010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Sep 14 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: Z2lhX2dhdmlub0Bjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/565/Sat Oct 30 07:31:13 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/565/Sat Oct 30 07:31:13 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Let me put it this way....Yes! I think it'd be awesome!!! And if there was a way that you could also do something along the lines of having the option to have matching forepart and or sleeves would be a possiblity as well? Hmm...Now I have to see about replacing my old corset with one that *fits* so I can make an elizabethan.... and tudor...and then make another one for regency...*sigh* Gia...dreaming of being in sewing heaven -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > Hi, > My making of the stomacher for the new dress i make, i wondered. > I think i could make some lovely embroidered Elizabethan stomachers. > Do you think there would be a market for this? > If i put up some examples on my homepage? Perhaps there would be many > american reenactors that would be interrested in this? > > Bjarne > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 31 18:16:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id i9VNGkMj002176 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 18:16:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9VNG34a024880 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 31 Oct 2004 16:16:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9VNFlFL019680; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 16:15:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-3.dnv.wideopenwest.com (pop-3.dnv.wideopenwest.com [64.233.207.8]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9VNFjFL019595 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 16:15:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mplumb@wideopenwest.com) Received: from Jupiter.plumbnet (d14-69-244-104.try.wideopenwest.com [69.14.104.244]) by pop-3.dnv.wideopenwest.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i9VNFbc19534 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 17:15:37 -0600 From: Michelle Plumb To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan embroidery Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 18:15:43 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.3 References: <000901c4bf88$45dbd9b0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <000901c4bf88$45dbd9b0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200410311815.43152.mplumb@wideopenwest.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/565/Sat Oct 30 07:31:13 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/565/Sat Oct 30 07:31:13 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Interest? Oh, yeah! Michelle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 31 19:50:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA10o07C002964 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 19:50:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA10nR4a003694 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 31 Oct 2004 17:49:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA10nDFL067509; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 17:49:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065d23.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065d23.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.254]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA10nBFL067458 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 17:49:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hardcorps@earthlink.net) Received: from kermit.psp.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.78.241]) by pop-a065d23.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1COQNg-0003O5-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 16:49:08 -0800 Message-ID: <2555826.1099270148596.JavaMail.root@kermit.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 17:49:08 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: Frank and Tracy Thallas To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan embroidery Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/565/Sat Oct 30 07:31:13 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/565/Sat Oct 30 07:31:13 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think there might be, if you can make beautiful things for a reasonable price (and still have a nice profit for you). I think you just have to advertise in the right place! Liadain -----Original Message----- From: Bjarne og Leif Drews Sent: Oct 31, 2004 1:29 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Elizabethan embroidery Hi, My making of the stomacher for the new dress i make, i wondered. I think i could make some lovely embroidered Elizabethan stomachers. Do you think there would be a market for this? If i put up some examples on my homepage? Perhaps there would be many american reenactors that would be interrested in this? Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume