From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 31 20:19:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA11JiXh003190 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 20:19:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA11IX4a006479 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 31 Oct 2004 18:18:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA11IPFL081912; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 18:18:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA11IMFL081813 for ; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 18:18:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.144.216]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id iA11I8fK003380 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 12:18:09 +1100 Message-ID: <007b01c4bfb0$81198860$d890d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000901c4bf88$45dbd9b0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan embroidery Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 12:16:58 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/565/Sat Oct 30 07:31:13 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/565/Sat Oct 30 07:31:13 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 7:29 AM Subject: [h-cost] Elizabethan embroidery > Hi, > My making of the stomacher for the new dress i make, i wondered. > I think i could make some lovely embroidered Elizabethan stomachers. > Do you think there would be a market for this? > If i put up some examples on my homepage? Perhaps there would be many > american reenactors that would be interrested in this? > > Bjarne I'm not sure how cost effective it would be, hand embroidery takes up a lot of your time and the price that reflects that amount of time and effort may be out of a lot of peoples price range. Also the very late 16th century style that features contrasting stomachers isn't actually that popular most people seem to focus between the 1560s and 1580s. Some people do wear contrasting stomachers with the earlier styles, but I don't think they are going to be the market for hand embroidery if they don't have a problem with mixing up several times periods in one dress they probably won't have a problem with machine embroidery. I worry that the price people are willing to pay will be less than what your work is worth. That being said, perhaps you could start by offering custom orders and see how much demand you get. If there is a huge demand perhaps you could start mass producing them with standard designs. Does that help? Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole in OR in Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra, Australia ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 1 02:46:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA17kPw1021716 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 02:46:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA17eV4a007007 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 1 Nov 2004 00:40:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA17duOm089282; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 00:39:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from lakermmtao01.cox.net (lakermmtao01.cox.net [68.230.240.38]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA17drOm089218 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 00:39:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from vmaa2@cox.net) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.10.139.124]) by lakermmtao01.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.04 201-2131-111-106-20040729) with ESMTP id <20041101073937.CAEY4770.lakermmtao01.cox.net@VMAAHQ> for ; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 02:39:37 -0500 From: "Linda Rice" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] need millinery supplies Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 02:47:23 -0500 Message-ID: <011101c4bfe7$06100400$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/566/Sun Oct 31 12:06:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/566/Sun Oct 31 12:06:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ooh! I was looking through the Amazon Drygoods pattern catalog tonight and came across a simple bonnet frame. Says it's ready to cover and line in your choice of fabrics, and decorate as you like. Only $12.50! Sounds reasonable to me~! In any case, that pattern catalog is amazing! Order a catalog here: http://www.amazondrygoods.com/ HTH- ::Linda:: On Behalf Of otsisto Subject: RE: [h-cost] need millinery supplies I am not 100% sure but usually straw hat were worn in the spring and summer. wool felted hats were fall and winter. I think one of the major patterns makers has a pattern for a caroler's bonnet. Don't have the time right now to look. De Not sure if this is what you are looking for, but its straw, and it's cheap! As to fast, I really don't know, I've not used this supplier. http://www.hatsupply.com/costume_hats.htm Scroll all the way to the bottom. HTH- ::Linda:: -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of Grace Morris [h-cost] need millinery supplies I usually sew an earlier time period, but now I find that I need to come up with a "Victorian" caroling outfit in pretty quick order. Nothing fancy, just nice enough to earn $$ over the holiday season. I'm in need of a basic straw hat base--I can handle all the decorating myself. Can anyone recommend a fast, on-line supplier? Grace/Jessamyn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 1 08:44:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA1DiVNC006442 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 08:44:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA1Dhw4a017445 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 1 Nov 2004 06:43:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA1Dhsq4051803; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 06:43:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA1DgCq4050993 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 06:42:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from sdn-ap-009masprip0197.dialsprint.net ([63.186.144.197]) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1COcRl-0002Ky-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 01 Nov 2004 08:42:09 -0500 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 08:43:03 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan embroidery From: ruthanne baumgartner To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000901c4bf88$45dbd9b0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/566/Sun Oct 31 12:06:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/566/Sun Oct 31 12:06:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Handwork is so labor-intensive that it's hard to produce for a genuine profit, because if you charge what the work is worth (inspiration, research, materials, time, eyestrain) there won't be many customers and if you charge what customers will pay you won't be able to repay yourself. That said, I'd still tell YOU, Bjarne, to go ahead. I for one would love to be able to purchase a piece of your beautiful work, even if I wound up displaying the stomacher on my wall for lack of opportunities to wear it! Also, as an amateur theatrical costumer working mostly in small theaters (where the audience is very close to the stage), I'd be grateful for a really special piece to add to a main character's costume, for her pleasure and the pleasure of the first rows of audience. The costumes I make for Shakespearean productions rely on good-looking fabric mostly in solid colors, without much in the way of applied trim; one embroidered stomacher would elevate the look of the whole show. And because I use mostly solid colors for the costumes, almost anything you did would "go with" what I have. So I WOULD BE a customer. I'm fairly confident that there are enough people on this list who have been drooling over the pictures of your work and would love to own some of it, so that you would be able to sell a number of pieces before you got tired of making them! --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer on 10/31/04 3:29 PM, Bjarne og Leif Drews at drewscph@post12.tele.dk wrote: > Hi, > My making of the stomacher for the new dress i make, i wondered. > I think i could make some lovely embroidered Elizabethan stomachers. > Do you think there would be a market for this? > If i put up some examples on my homepage? Perhaps there would be many > american reenactors that would be interrested in this? > > Bjarne > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 1 11:17:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA1GH2Q7007069 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 11:17:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA1GGE4a005737 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 1 Nov 2004 09:16:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA1GFjq4054295; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 09:15:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA1GFQq4053817 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 09:15:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fb6.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.182]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 362BE47FE05 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 17:15:19 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001a01c4c02e$070c6d20$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 17:15:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/566/Sun Oct 31 12:06:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/566/Sun Oct 31 12:06:02 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] stomacher embroidery X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I purchased a lot of the beautifull flat japanese silk thread and i started to embroider the stomacher. I have also outlined some of the leaves with gold passing thread and i used gold spangels for the stamens of the flowers. The camera can not catch the glow and shine of the fine silk thread, but i can tell you it is so beautifull. http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/chenillestumpwork.htm Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 1 11:56:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA1Gulon007297 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 11:56:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA1GuH4a014825 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 1 Nov 2004 09:56:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA1Gu8q4090157; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 09:56:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m16.mx.aol.com (imo-m16.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.206]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA1Gu2q4089987 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 09:56:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Widowweeds@cs.com) Received: from Widowweeds@cs.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.99.5038b875 (16087) for ; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 11:55:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from tlininn (mattdrury.net [68.142.30.226]) by air-id10.mx.aol.com (v102.9) with ESMTP id MAILINID104-3ed741866a993a4; Mon, 01 Nov 2004 11:55:53 -0400 Message-ID: <002301c4c033$a5691950$6401a8c0@tlininn> From: "Widow Weeds" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.1.1.0.20041029181100.023800a0@64.87.54.245> Subject: Re: [h-cost] FYI, Renaissance Dancewear news Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 11:55:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-AOL-IP: 68.142.30.226 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > She notes that she will be accepting orders for tights until the end of > November 2004. If you are interested, please order asap. Her wares are > shown on her web site. I have a few pairs of her tights, and find them nearly perfect for a day's wear. If you have the need for some, be sure to get an order in in time. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 1 12:26:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA1HQYla007482 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 12:26:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA1HPh4a022638 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 1 Nov 2004 10:25:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA1HPMq4015695; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 10:25:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA1HPJq4015616 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 10:25:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fb6.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.182]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 81BAE47FEC5 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 18:25:14 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000401c4c037$cacd4140$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 18:25:32 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] trick or treat X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, So yesterday was Halloween on your site of the pond. Did you have a nice evening. Does all of you get a call of the dressed up children? Bjarne who would have loved to have a look how it is. Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 1 13:26:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA1IQguC007730 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 13:26:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA1IPm4a008590 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 1 Nov 2004 11:25:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA1IPYq4068348; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 11:25:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-118.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA1IPVq4068229 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 11:25:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by mail.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8884425EA for ; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 13:56:02 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <41867F78.3030509@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 12:24:56 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] trick or treat References: <000401c4c037$cacd4140$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <000401c4c037$cacd4140$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi, So yesterday was Halloween on your site of the pond. > Did you have a nice evening. > Does all of you get a call of the dressed up children? > We had great fun. We made the children do tricks for their treats. Imagine, if you will, a porch full of small children in costume hopping on one leg..... Here are some pictures of friends: http://www.reddawn.net/costume/halloween/jontara.jpg And of my husband in his cowboy outfit and me in my "Evil Arwen" dress: http://www.reddawn.net/costume/halloween/dawnjay.jpg Again with other friends: (my husband is a wizard this time) http://www.reddawn.net/costume/halloween/Hallowee.jpg Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 1 14:53:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA1JrtVn008257 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 14:53:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA1Jr54a023111 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 1 Nov 2004 12:53:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA1Jqsq4043637; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 12:52:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA1Jqnq4043549 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 12:52:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fb6.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.182]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id DBD505EE076 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 20:52:46 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002101c4c04c$614229b0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 20:52:55 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] trick or treat X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have seen movies where they show how the children goes arround for trick or treat. I am green of envy on you that you have this wonderfull tradition. When i was a child, many years ago (deep sigh) we were doing something like the same thing, only not for treat in form of goodies but for small money. We carried our money boxes and was dressed up. This was called fastelavn - ( Lent) The tradition was very old goes back till the time when Denmark was catholic. We also had a party where we had to take down a barrel with a stick. The one who beated it down became a king, and the nearest girl was princess. Or if it was a girl she became queen. This tradition has stopped. No children does it anymore and i think it is a shame. We had so much fun. I loved to dress in my mothers old clothes, and i had a longhaired wig on me and i was maked up like a whitch. This was my favourite to be a wicked whitch. Thanks for your inputs about this Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 1 15:29:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA1KTUkE008432 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 15:29:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA1KSQ4a028235 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 1 Nov 2004 13:28:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA1KSGq4074469; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 13:28:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web50406.mail.yahoo.com (web50406.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.71]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id iA1KS9q4074294 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 13:28:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dragonwolfcat@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20041101202803.62064.qmail@web50406.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [146.82.36.102] by web50406.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 01 Nov 2004 12:28:03 PST Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 12:28:03 -0800 (PST) From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" Subject: Re: [h-cost] trick or treat To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <41867F78.3030509@reddawn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Teren was a 'pirate' this year, his first costume in 5 years that DIDN'T have wings! Not historically accurate, but at least inspired-he wore a colonial ponytail wig with a hat, blue and silver frock coat with deep pockets and knee high black boots with a buckle. Part of the time he went around with a hook and large stuffed parrot, and part without. His daycare provider had a sleepover for the kids on Saturday with games and contests, and then we went trick-or-treating at a local mall. Hadn't intended to really do so, but got talked into staying for the costume contest by the mall owner and one of the merchants. Teren didn't win in his age group, but was called up for a second look (there were 6 in that set out of 30 kids!); but we won a family gift certificate to the mall as a group! Nick was wearing his black Severus Snape outfit I made him and I was wearing the red wolf mage, but with a Julian May headdress. Teren went to 2 neighbors at their request afterwards for trick-or-treats, and considered himself overly supplied with candy for the year. In fact, when we went to the larger mall to keep our promise of Ice Cream, he didn't want to trick-or-treat there because he thought he had enough! At least in this small, small portion of space, consumerism and greed hasn't won (yet)! But he does like the toys at Yule/Christmas *sigh* Angharad / Wolfcat > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > Hi, So yesterday was Halloween on your site of the > pond. > > Did you have a nice evening. > > Does all of you get a call of the dressed up > children? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 1 16:47:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA1LlNqZ009176 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 16:47:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA1LkT4a012529 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 1 Nov 2004 14:46:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA1Ljtq4040997; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 14:45:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA1Ljeq4040773 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 14:45:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lauren.walker@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (h0006255ec5ea.ne.client2.attbi.com[66.31.43.36]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <200411012145340110032fj4e>; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 21:45:34 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 16:45:34 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] trick or treat From: Lauren Walker To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000401c4c037$cacd4140$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, We had 300 children come by before we ran out of candy. I count the treats in advance and estimate the number of trick-or-treaters by what's left. The past 2 years I've provided 200 treats and run out; this year I packed it in after we'd given out all but four of the 300. I sit on the porch with my downstairs neighbor and we just watch the pageantry and give out treats for a couple of hours. In our neighborhood we get everything from very imaginative home-made costumes to purchased costumes of many lands, and also the ubiquitous kid who is too old for this out in jeans and a sweatshirt. Some years I joke with them that they are dressed as a rap musician, but the rappers have started dressing better than this! Anyway I would say the most common costume this year was Spiderman, in several manufactured versions. Disney princesses were probably the next largest group if you count the Belles, Cinderellas, Ariels, and Auroras all together. I didn't see any Snow Whites, though. The number of plastic masks of Munch's "Scream" with recirculating blood were down this year from last, perhaps out of sensitivity to the theft of the painting itself? In our neighborhood there are also plenty of adults who don costumes as well. One end of the street is closed off, as for a block party, and that block most of the houses are decorated to a theme. This year's theme was aliens and outer space, so there was a variety of Jedi, guys in jumpsuits, and things like that down there. One house festooned in white lights and empty gallon jugs -- i.e., the Milky Way. My favorites of the night were a kid in a full fur wolf outfit and an adult in black leotards and a long-nosed goblin mask who stayed in character throughout, sneaking around corners with then nose and variously spooking passers-by. We also had a flock of teenagers who dressed as various Japanese anime characters and went to a costume contest at a local anime emporium! Truly and international Hallowe'en! Lauren - > From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" > > Hi, > So yesterday was Halloween on your site of the pond. > Did you have a nice evening. > Does all of you get a call of the dressed up children? > > Bjarne > who would have loved to have a look how it is. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 1 17:38:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA1McSGp009514 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 17:38:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA1Mbj4a019954 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 1 Nov 2004 15:37:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA1Mbdq4081949; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 15:37:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m15.mx.aol.com (imo-m15.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.205]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA1MbZq4081843 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 15:37:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Chindora@aol.com) Received: from Chindora@aol.com by imo-m15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.8c.189a5ad1 (3924) for ; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 17:37:15 -0500 (EST) From: Chindora@aol.com Message-ID: <8c.189a5ad1.2eb8149b@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 17:37:15 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] trick or treat To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5000 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/1/2004 1:50:52 PM Pacific Standard Time, lauren.walker@comcast.net writes: I didn't see any Snow Whites, though. My four year old was a quite spiffy Snow White. I am entirely jealous of the amount of kids that you had. We only had about six groups with 4 or less in each group. My daughter was quite miffed because she had decided she was staying home to give out treats. She had been trick or treating at Merrill Lynch with her daycare on Friday, and also Saturday evening with a hayride in the neighborhood. I dressed up as a gypsy fortune teller and went to a neighborhood party and read palms. Unfortunately, the three men who dressed up as Hooter's Girls and gave lap dances to a couple of the women there were by far the hit of the party. :) ~Kimberley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 1 18:08:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA1N8ges009727 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 18:08:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA1IcJ4a011911 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 1 Nov 2004 11:38:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA1IcCq4079708; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 11:38:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA1Ic8q4079629 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 11:38:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29370 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 12:47:50 -0600 Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 12:47:48 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] trick or treat In-Reply-To: <000401c4c037$cacd4140$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 1 Nov 2004, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > So yesterday was Halloween on your site of the pond. > Did you have a nice evening. > Does all of you get a call of the dressed up children? Alas, it started pouring down rain here right at sunset. We only got about three or four knocks on the door. Both of my two sons went out with their dad, under an umbrella; one gave up after just a few minutes. We are still loaded with candy here. I bet there are a lot of disappointed kids in this neighborhood. Older son was a wizard (black cape and tall cone hat that I whipped up out of shiny black fabric with a silver reflective pattern of moon and stars). The younger one was the Ash character from Pokemon, a costume I made five years ago for his older brother (shirt copied from the cartoon, fingerless gloves, Pokemon baseball cap, and stuffed Pikachu toy on shoulder). Nothing historic here, I'm afraid, but given that it's usually rainy or freezing cold, I tend to go for quick, comfortable, and washable. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 1 18:10:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA1NAlHM009733 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 18:10:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA1N9N4a025870 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 1 Nov 2004 16:09:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA1N8bq4008671; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 16:08:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA1N8Xq4008599 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 16:08:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from brujne@creighton.edu) Received: from cindyabel (cla53081.creighton.edu [147.134.201.2]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA16691 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 17:08:30 -0600 (CST) From: "Cindy Abel" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] trick or treat Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 17:08:34 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <002101c4c04c$614229b0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne: Halloween is very big commercially this side of the pond. It is the second biggest holiday(next to Christmas)for sales of costumes, candy, lawn and house decorations, etc in the U.S. We have a few retailers here in Omaha, Nebraska where Halloween is bigger than Christmas in terms of sales and rentals and there are a few temporary shops that are just open a few weeks and sell only Halloween-related merchandise. Fabric and craft stores make mucho money selling costumes, accessories, fabric, and patterns--there is a pattern out there somewhere to make just about anything one can imagine. Many publishers run special issues of their magazines just to cover Halloween cookery, costumes, and decorating for all the do-it-yourselfers. Fewer children go house to house to trick or treat then when I was doing it(from about 1960-1966)because as suburban and urban neighborhoods have grown, one knows fewer of one's neighbors and cars and trucks tend to look out less for trick or treaters. The big reason is the fear among parents of poisoned or tainted candy. But that is mostly urban legend (false). The few proven instances where their has been proof that a kid's candy was tainted or poison was traced back to the child's parent or parents who were desparate enough for money to kill their kid to collect life insurance money. Many parents prefer to take their kids to shopping malls where going store to store gets kids little gifts that aren't always candy. Just as many parents prefer to organize and host Halloween parties for their immediate neighbors or an entire neighborhood. There are games for both kids and adults and less emphasis on candy as treats. There are several professionally-run Halloween houses with multiple scary effects in most cities. The big development in the last ten years or so has been the boom in adults buying costumes and having and going to adults-only Halloween parties. I've probably spent more in the last ten years than my Mom and Dad ever did--when I was growing up either our Moms made our costumes, or we got the cheap box kind with a matching full-face mask. I remember being Disney's Cinderella for three years' running from age 5- 7 because the costume still fit. In those days, there was little concern about being able to see clearly through one's mask. It is really the one night of the year(unless you attend Ren Faires or are a historical reinactor)when one can dress up and pretend to be someone else. And if you have a Ren Faire, SCA, or reinactor costume, one can wear it for extra day a year. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 1 19:37:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA20bwER010290 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 19:37:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA20ae4a006079 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 1 Nov 2004 17:36:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA20aNq4070012; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 17:36:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA20aKq4069968 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 17:36:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.71] (p07.3c02.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.71]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id iA20YdL20814 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 17:34:39 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] trick or treat Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 17:41:04 -0700 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Nov 1, 2004, at 4:08 PM, Cindy Abel wrote: > > Bjarne: > > Halloween is very big commercially this side of the pond. It is the > second > biggest holiday(next to Christmas)for sales of costumes, candy, lawn > and > house decorations, etc in the U.S. We have a few retailers here in > Omaha, > Nebraska where Halloween is bigger than Christmas in terms of sales and > rentals and there are a few temporary shops that are just open a few > weeks > and sell only Halloween-related merchandise. Fabric and craft stores > make > mucho money selling costumes, accessories, fabric, and patterns--there > is a > pattern out there somewhere to make just about anything one can > imagine. > Many publishers run special issues of their magazines just to cover > Halloween cookery, costumes, and decorating for all the > do-it-yourselfers. I work part time at Jo-anns fabric store and the week before Halloween was the biggest week I've ever seen there. On Saturday Oct 30 there was a line of about 15 people waiting for the cutting table. And we sold out safety pins because the teenagers and college students who don't know how to sew just buy lengths of fabric and pin themselves up to create costumes for themselves. Today the store looked like a war zone. We haven't had time to roll up the remnants for weeks now so there is a mountain of fabric on one of the cutting tables that I don't think we'll ever catch up with. No one has had time to restock the shelves for a couple weeks now and no one had time last night to put away the fabrics and trims from the weekend, so I think there was more trim on and under the cutting table than on the shelves. I think I sold more fairy costume fabric than anything else this Halloween. I think I should have gone into the wing business on ebay. And now comes Christmas, our next biggest sales holiday. Actually, it is probably bigger but spread out longer. Sylrog > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 1 22:37:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA23b76v011067 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 22:37:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA23aX4a021604 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 1 Nov 2004 20:36:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA23aMq4062366; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 20:36:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA23aKq4062346 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 20:36:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) Received: from 209-165-50-044.jps.net ([209.165.50.44]) by smtp6.mindspring.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1COpT2-0005iB-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 01 Nov 2004 22:36:20 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 19:36:12 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Subject: Re: [h-cost] trick or treat Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wisdom I Have Learned: Never go into a fabric store on October 30th and expect to buy black thread. -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | Davis, California - http://paternosters.blogspot.com + http://paternosters.home.igc.org _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 1 22:52:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA23quZg011116 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 22:52:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA23qJ4a022866 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 1 Nov 2004 20:52:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA23qFq4069318; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 20:52:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA23qCq5069303 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 20:52:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iA240lcl009969 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 23:00:47 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] trick or treat Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 23:06:29 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200411012306.29642.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday 01 November 2004 4:45 pm, Lauren Walker wrote: > Hi, > We had 300 children come by before we ran out of candy. I count the treats > in advance and estimate the number of trick-or-treaters by what's left. The > past 2 years I've provided 200 treats and run out; this year I packed it in > after we'd given out all but four of the 300. Wow. Where do you live? We barely got 30; I had to unload three or four bags of candy at the office just to get rid of it! > > I sit on the porch with my downstairs neighbor and we just watch the > pageantry and give out treats for a couple of hours. In our neighborhood we > get everything from very imaginative home-made costumes to purchased > costumes of many lands, and also the ubiquitous kid who is too old for this > out in jeans and a sweatshirt. Some years I joke with them that they are > dressed as a rap musician, but the rappers have started dressing better > than this! Anyway I would say the most common costume this year was > Spiderman, in several manufactured versions. Disney princesses were > probably the next largest group if you count the Belles, Cinderellas, > Ariels, and Auroras all together. I didn't see any Snow Whites, though. The > number of plastic masks of Munch's "Scream" with recirculating blood were > down this year from last, perhaps out of sensitivity to the theft of the > painting itself? Wow. Though I saw a fair number of homemade pr partly homemade costumes too. I remember seeing an angel, a chicken rider (yes, he had a stuffed thing around his middle meant to indicate a poultry steed), a Harry Potter or two, a Tigger, the superhero Ben Affleck played in that awful summer movie (I forget the name of the superhero), and a horror figure in a hockey mask. But no princesses, and no "Screams". > In our neighborhood there are also plenty of adults who don costumes as > well. One end of the street is closed off, as for a block party, and that > block most of the houses are decorated to a theme. This year's theme was > aliens and outer space, so there was a variety of Jedi, guys in jumpsuits, > and things like that down there. One house festooned in white lights and > empty gallon jugs -- i.e., the Milky Way. That's cool. We had no block party, but we had a good 5 or 6 houses decorated for Halloween inside and out--orange lights, skull-shaped lights, fake tombstones.... > > My favorites of the night were a kid in a full fur wolf outfit and an adult > in black leotards and a long-nosed goblin mask who stayed in character > throughout, sneaking around corners with then nose and variously spooking > passers-by. > > We also had a flock of teenagers who dressed as various Japanese anime > characters and went to a costume contest at a local anime emporium! Truly > and international Hallowe'en! I want to move to your neighborhood! Much, much cooler than mine, costume-wise. :-) -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 2 05:59:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA2Axv33011811 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 05:59:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2AxK4a019285 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 2 Nov 2004 03:59:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2AxCq4051987; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 03:59:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp3.suscom.net (smtp3.suscom.net [64.78.119.250]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2AxAq5051887 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 03:59:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp3.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B74E2DC170 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 05:58:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip194.182.235.64.susc.suscom.net [64.235.182.194]) by smtp3.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id DC8DDDC15F for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 05:57:59 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <01ab01c4c0ca$e64ae010$c2b6eb40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200411012306.29642.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] trick or treat Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 05:58:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine Olanich Raymond" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 11:06 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] trick or treat I didn't see any Snow Whites, though. The >> number of plastic masks of Munch's "Scream" with recirculating blood were >> down this year from last, perhaps out of sensitivity to the theft of the >> painting itself? Actually, I think the "Scream" costumes are based on the movie, not the painting.. My three boys dressed as the Red Power Ranger, Superman, and the littlest was Captain Feathersword the Friendly Pirate. We took Jimmy to the toddler/tot Trick or Treat at the local mall on Thursday. Lots of Disney princesses (including several very pretty Snow Whites), several fairies, many Spiderman suits, and one little cowboy who had the pony's head and front legs attached to the front of his outfit so it looked like he was riding the pony. Very very cute. My DH took them trick or treating Sunday night. At one house, there was a man in costume hidden among several mannequins, who jumped out at the kids and yelled "BOO!" Tommy (age 6 and fearless) grinned at him and said "Oh, hi! Happy Halloween!" I always have big plans to decorate the outside for Halloween, but I never have time. This year at least the paper napkins made it upstairs from the basement and into the drawer! Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 2 07:43:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA2ChX9k012320 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 07:43:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2Cgj4a029850 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 2 Nov 2004 05:42:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2CgUq4001957; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 05:42:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.254.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2CgPq4001871 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 05:42:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 12:41:20 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: [h-cost] Queen Arnegunde??? To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3C3F@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Queen Arnegunde??? Thread-Index: AcTAQ6NoKQrZqGkMSk2YptfXIkbyyQAlP5SQ content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.20 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello h-costumers, Someone I met at the Medieval Dress and Textile Society meeting the other weekend asked me if I know any details about Queen Arnegunde - which I don't. I am hoping that the combined knowledge of the listmembers will turn up something - details below from the person who asked me about it..... > I am interested in the clothing of Queen Arnegunde who died > in 570 and was found under the Cathedral of Saint-Denis. She > was consort to Clothar I and is Merovingian. > I have the book titled "North European Textiles Until AD > 1000" written by Lise Bender Jorgensen in 1992 that leads me > to believe that the most recent information until that time > was published in 1979 (page 111). I am trying to find out if > there is anything in addition to, and/or more current than > this information. I have found two other sources but they > seem to say different things. > > Any information in addition to the book mentioned above on > her clothes or jewelry would be appreciated. > > Thank you, Thanks in advance Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 2 08:08:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA2D8Mis012440 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 08:08:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2D7p4a004958 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 2 Nov 2004 06:07:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2D7kq4014645; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 06:07:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web50006.mail.yahoo.com (web50006.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.21]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id iA2D7iq4014586 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 06:07:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20041102130738.9560.qmail@web50006.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web50006.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 02 Nov 2004 13:07:38 GMT Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 13:07:38 +0000 (GMT) From: Marquesate Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queen Arnegunde??? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3C3F@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here you go, Teddy, I hope this helps for a start: http://www.kipar.demon.co.uk/frankish.html I haven't updated it, but that's because I forgot how to get into the site. ooops. :-) Nicole --- Teddy wrote: > Hello h-costumers, > > Someone I met at the Medieval Dress and Textile Society meeting the > other weekend asked me if I know any details about Queen Arnegunde - > which I don't. > > I am hoping that the combined knowledge of the listmembers will turn up > something - details below from the person who asked me about it..... ___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 2 08:39:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA2DdFHa012701 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 08:39:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2Dcm4a010170 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 2 Nov 2004 06:38:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2Dcgq4030241; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 06:38:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk ([193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2Dcdq4029950 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 06:38:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id iA2Dc3a05566.; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 13:38:03 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 02 Nov 2004 13:38:02 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 13:37:47 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] trick or treat Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hallowe'en is becoming more commercialised on the American model in Britain now. "Trick or treat" was unheard of when I was a child (late 50s-early 60s), though we occasionally had parties where we dressed as witches, made turnip lanterns (pumpkins not being a traditional British crop) and played at bobbing for apples. This year, some members of my reenactment society spent the day doing living history activities at a small old manor house (partly dating back to the 13th century) in Leicestershire. There were craft activities for children (making masks and witches' hats) and a mock 17th century witch trial was staged. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 2 08:49:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA2DnuVN012785 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 08:49:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2Dml4a011002 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 2 Nov 2004 06:48:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2Dmeq4035294; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 06:48:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2Dmbq4035254 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 06:48:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m161.in-tch.com [216.166.191.161]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id iA2Dl2U01345 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 06:47:03 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <41879148.3000309@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 06:53:12 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queen Arnegunde??? References: <20041102130738.9560.qmail@web50006.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20041102130738.9560.qmail@web50006.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey, Nicole! Long time, no see! Teddy, I think she's come up on the SCA-Authenticity list. I'll try to check the archives today. --sue, waving from waaaaay across the pond and a few mountain ranges, where she's busily grumping about elections and learning multi-color knitting..... Marquesate wrote: > Here you go, Teddy, I hope this helps for a start: > > http://www.kipar.demon.co.uk/frankish.html > > I haven't updated it, but that's because I forgot how to get into the site. > ooops. :-) > > Nicole > > --- Teddy wrote: > >>Hello h-costumers, >> >>Someone I met at the Medieval Dress and Textile Society meeting the >>other weekend asked me if I know any details about Queen Arnegunde - >>which I don't. >> >>I am hoping that the combined knowledge of the listmembers will turn up >>something - details below from the person who asked me about it..... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 2 08:53:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA2DrwlL012810 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 08:53:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2DrP4a011347 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 2 Nov 2004 06:53:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2DrOq4037796; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 06:53:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from asmtp-a063f31.pas.sa.earthlink.net (asmtp-a063f31.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.120.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2DqGq4037186 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 06:52:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [4.152.198.14] (helo=MOM) by asmtp-a063f31.pas.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1COtiS-00077R-6a for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 02 Nov 2004 00:08:33 -0800 Message-ID: <007f01c4c0b3$2415e470$0300a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 03:08:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 140fedcc4d524cc6b18d26c2e407058b94f5150ab1c16ac08f4233f47979de265e73584e32ad96459814eef22dca876f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.152.198.14 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Library last Weekend X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id iA2DrwlL012810 Status: RO LIBRARY FREE ACCESS WEEKEND This past weekend, we were supposed to have our free access to the Library. At the same time, my websites' host decided to move our sites' servers from hurricane country, Pensacola, Florida to upland Tennessee. They failed to notify me of the move. All our websites went down during this time frame, so our guests invited for free access to the Library, our Library subscribers, and Costume Classroom students could not access our websites. Early Tuesday morning, we finally got everything on all three of websites functioning again. I have decided to make another free access period for this email list members from Nov. 28-30. I am really beginning to wonder if I should go out of town. When I was in England, Hurricane Ivan hit Pensacola. Our website servers were in a building three blocks from the beach. I went to Washington DC last weekend and this happened. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Online Reference Library, AND Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumegallery.com/research.htm www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 2 09:17:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA2EHJdM013049 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 09:17:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2EGj4a012876 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 2 Nov 2004 07:16:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2EG6q4052561; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 07:16:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out002.verizon.net (out002pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.141]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2EFwq4052436 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 07:16:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jauncourt@verizon.net) Received: from [4.12.174.2] by out002.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20041102141558.WHJF22336.out002.verizon.net@[4.12.174.2]> for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 08:15:58 -0600 Message-ID: <4187969E.6040705@verizon.net> Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 08:15:58 -0600 From: Maura Folsom User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20040616 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] trick or treat References: <200411021350.iA2DoSq5036274@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: <200411021350.iA2DoSq5036274@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out002.verizon.net from [4.12.174.2] at Tue, 2 Nov 2004 08:15:58 -0600 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO FX (our 21 month old) was Baby Hellboy (if you heve seen the movie, he is shown in the opening sequence). I made him a pullover top with a hood and little soft horns, a pair of leggings, a tail on a velcro belt and a 'stone hand' glove, all out of red stretch velour. He likes the hooded shirt and glove best. We did not trick-or-treat, as he's just a bit too little and we had flash flood warnings in our area. We went to his grandparents house instead and met up with his cousins, pictures were taken and all were given candy. The night before, Chris and I dressed up for a party - he was a blue devil (glued on horns I had made, his white-out contact lenses and a VERY nice makeup job that I am justifiably proud of, black pants, his 'big scary boots' and a black velvet shirt with latin phrases printed and voided out), of the sort that you might see on Angel. I was a funereal ghost in a regency-inspired dress I had made a few years ago, with ghastly makeup, and a worn top hat with a huge drapy black bow and feather. A good time was had by all. M. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 2 09:42:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA2EgY4A013128 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 09:42:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2Efv4a014743 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 2 Nov 2004 07:41:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2Efnq4067005; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 07:41:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.254.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2Efjq4066960 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 07:41:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 14:41:34 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queen Arnegunde??? To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3C46@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Queen Arnegunde??? Thread-Index: AcTA47dkBNANvlVOQYyqrTGigyiF/wABjd4g content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.20 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Here you go, Teddy, I hope this helps for a start: > > http://www.kipar.demon.co.uk/frankish.html > > I haven't updated it, but that's because I forgot how to get > into the site. ooops. :-) Many thanks Nicole! Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 2 09:43:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA2EhhSm013140 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 09:43:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2Eh34a014839 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 2 Nov 2004 07:43:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2Eh3q4067630; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 07:43:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail14.mdx.safepages.com (mail14.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.154.244]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2EgXq4067400 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 07:42:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail14.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 6BCA31ECD04; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 14:42:35 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust154.tnt1.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.148.154]) by mail14.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 3E13D1ECCEE for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 14:42:33 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <11c401c4c0ea$381384a0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001a01c4c02e$070c6d20$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 08:42:45 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Chenille X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO When was chenille first used? If it's a latish thing (which I assume to be the case, though apparently it's at least as early as 1781) is there anything before say around 1550 that it could be said to mimic? I've been looking around for fancyish brocades and cut velvets, and annoyingly enough, some of the most accurate designs are being sold in chenille. Could a finely woven chenille fabric, by any stretch of the imagination, mimic real renaissance era cut velvets? -E House Liberty in Our Lifetime - www.freestateproject.org Coming Soon - http://www.seamcheckers.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 2 09:46:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA2EkiU7013153 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 09:46:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2EkE4a015092 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 2 Nov 2004 07:46:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2Ek9q4069412; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 07:46:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from alpha2.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (alpha2.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.0.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2Ek6q4069394 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 07:46:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 14:46:00 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queen Arnegunde??? To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3C48@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Queen Arnegunde??? Thread-Index: AcTA47dkBNANvlVOQYyqrTGigyiF/wABtXoQ content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.20 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Teddy, I think she's come up on the SCA-Authenticity list. > I'll try to > check the archives today. Thanks Sue, and good luck with the knitting Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 2 10:00:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA2F0l2p013203 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 10:00:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2F0C4a016600 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 2 Nov 2004 08:00:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2F01q4077868; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 08:00:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from lakermmtao06.cox.net (lakermmtao06.cox.net [68.230.240.33]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2Exxq4077766 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 07:59:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mysteri@cox.net) Received: from c8g2n3 ([68.227.117.181]) by lakermmtao06.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.04.00 201-2131-117-20041022) with SMTP id <20041102145952.CHGY24485.lakermmtao06.cox.net@c8g2n3> for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 09:59:52 -0500 Message-ID: <004201c4c0ec$9a7748a0$6401a8c0@c8g2n3> From: "Mys" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200411021350.iA2DoSq5036274@net.indra.com> <4187969E.6040705@verizon.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] trick or treat Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 08:59:50 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2741.2600 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2742.200 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I am new to the group but had such a wonderful Halloween, I though I would share. I have 5 children so we decided to do the cast of the Wizard of OZ. Hubby was the Scarecrow I was the Wicked Witch . 11yo son was the Tin Man. 8yo son was the Lion ( I even sculpted the latex face piece, he look just like the one in the movie) 5yo daughter was Dorothy. (if I ever see red glitter again... :-) 3yo daughter was Glenda 1yo daughter was a blue flying monkey (complete with hand fethered blue wings) Much to my childrens enjoyment we won 3 different costume contests. They had such a wonderful time they are already planning our group costume for next year. I hope everyone had a wonderful, fun, and safe holiday. Mysteri _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 2 10:13:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA2FDYXF013277 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 10:13:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2FCv4a017729 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 2 Nov 2004 08:12:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2FCrq4086105; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 08:12:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mk-smarthost-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-smarthost-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2FCoq4086006 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 08:12:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from reholliday@lineone.net) Received: from mk-cpfront-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.4]:38994 helo=mk-cpfrontend.uk.tiscali.com) by mk-smarthost-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1CP0Ky-0000A9-Sv for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 02 Nov 2004 15:12:44 +0000 Received: from [195.157.53.197] by mk-cpfrontend.uk.tiscali.com with HTTP; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 15:12:44 +0000 Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 15:12:44 +0000 Message-ID: <4187568D0000233E@mk-cpfrontend-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com> In-Reply-To: <200411021350.iA2DoSq5036274@net.indra.com> From: "Rachel" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Elizlabethan embroidery To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id iA2FCoq4086006 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne This is something I have been looking into. In the UK the only real market for good quality stomachers of this period are really musuems and people with lots of money. Most people are just not willing to pay what these items require. Even the simplest blackworked stomacher would take around 50-75 hours of work, at just £5 an hour (very low for such delicate work) the labour alone would be in the order of £250-375 before any costs have been included. I've only found a few people willing to pay that kind of money. If anyone will pay that then feel free to send them my way as I am planning a trip to the V&A to study and catalogue some of the stomachers from this period. Rachel -----Original Message----- From: Bjarne og Leif Drews Sent: Oct 31, 2004 1:29 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Elizabethan embroidery Hi, My making of the stomacher for the new dress i make, i wondered. I think i could make some lovely embroidered Elizabethan stomachers. Do you think there would be a market for this? If i put up some examples on my homepage? Perhaps there would be many american reenactors that would be interrested in this? Bjarne Threads of History www.threadsofhistory.co.uk __________________________________________________________________ Win 12 amazing weekend breaks, one every month for a year to Dublin, Milan, the Alps, Paris and beyond http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/competitions/brilliant_weekends.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 2 10:49:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA2FnH9x013567 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 10:49:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2FiI4a020706 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 2 Nov 2004 08:44:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2FiEq4008178; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 08:44:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2Fhvq4007871 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 08:43:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (c-24-21-147-231.client.comcast.net [24.21.147.231]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id iA2Fhqi10645 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 10:43:52 -0500 Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 07:41:45 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queen Arnegunde??? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3C3F@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings, I don't have my notebooks in front of me, but I remember there being some doubt as to whether this was Arnegunde or not. The body appeared to come a few years to late to be Arnegunde. The ring inscribed, "Arnegundis" was the clue to her identity and may have been an heirloom. The garments are currently being conserved at German-en-Laye. The findings are expected to be published in the next few years. I can't wait! :D I have a couple books in French that I haven't had a chance to translate, as my French is as good as two semesters in high school about 25 years ago can be. I will pull my notes out and see what I can find. It may be next week as I'm heading to a conference tomorrow. (Any going to ITAA in Portland?) Althea On Tuesday, November 2, 2004, at 04:41 AM, Teddy wrote: > Hello h-costumers, > > Someone I met at the Medieval Dress and Textile Society meeting the > other weekend asked me if I know any details about Queen Arnegunde - > which I don't. > > I am hoping that the combined knowledge of the listmembers will turn up > something - details below from the person who asked me about it..... > >> I am interested in the clothing of Queen Arnegunde who died >> in 570 and was found under the Cathedral of Saint-Denis. She >> was consort to Clothar I and is Merovingian. >> I have the book titled "North European Textiles Until AD >> 1000" written by Lise Bender Jorgensen in 1992 that leads me >> to believe that the most recent information until that time >> was published in 1979 (page 111). I am trying to find out if >> there is anything in addition to, and/or more current than >> this information. I have found two other sources but they >> seem to say different things. >> >> Any information in addition to the book mentioned above on >> her clothes or jewelry would be appreciated. >> >> Thank you, > > > Thanks in advance > > Teddy > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com I think, therefore I'm dangerous. I'll be Post-Feminist in a Post-Patriarchy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 2 10:56:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA2Fu0HV013596 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 10:56:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2Foe4a021415 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 2 Nov 2004 08:50:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2Foaq4013240; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 08:50:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from courageux.concentric.com (courageux.concentric.com [207.155.248.177]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2FoYq4013201 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 08:50:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) Received: (root@localhost) by courageux.concentric.com id KAA23879; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 10:50:33 -0500 (EST) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.17] Message-ID: <200411021550.KAA23879@courageux.concentric.com> From: Julie To: Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 07:50:33 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <200411021351.iA2DoSq6036274@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id iA2FoYq4013201 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] trick or treat X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm in Southern California. We're seeing much less of the door-to-door trick or treating. Even when I was a kid my mom wouldn't let me eat any homemade treats unless it was someone we knew. Hospital X-ray rooms would allow you to check your candy bag because some sickos were putting razor blades and needles in the apples and candy bars. Lots of the shopping malls have safe trick or treating for the kids - plus it brings in a lot of more potential customers. A real win-win. We live in an area with 2 acre properties. We wouldn't even be able to finish our own street before we pooped out . I'm seeing lots more adult participation though. Too much fun to let the kids have it all. Julie > I have seen movies where they show how the children goes arround for trick or treat. I am green of envy on you that you have this wonderfull tradition. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 2 11:02:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA2G2mBb013637 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 11:02:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2FvY4a022231 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 2 Nov 2004 08:57:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2FvSq4019037; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 08:57:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.141]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id iA2FvOq4018900 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 08:57:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Nov 2004 15:57:18 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041102155544.0145a530@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 15:57:22 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: RE: [h-cost] Elizlabethan embroidery In-Reply-To: <4187568D0000233E@mk-cpfrontend-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com> References: <200411021350.iA2DoSq5036274@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id iA2FvOq4018900 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 15:12 02/11/2004 +0000, you wrote: >Bjarne > >This is something I have been looking into. In the UK the only real market >for good quality stomachers of this period are really musuems and people >with lots of money. Most people are just not willing to pay what these >items require. Even the simplest blackworked stomacher would take around >50-75 hours of work, at just £5 an hour (very low for such delicate work) >the labour alone would be in the order of £250-375 before any costs have >been included. I've only found a few people willing to pay that kind of >money. If anyone will pay that then feel free to send them my way as I >am planning a trip to the V&A to study and catalogue some of the stomachers >from this period. I don't think even museums have that much money nowadays, at least, not in my experience. People who won't buy proper shoes for a costume are certainly not going to pay for Bjarne's beautiful work. Suzi, in London _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 2 11:40:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA2GeAn1013849 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 11:40:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2GdQ4a027299 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 2 Nov 2004 09:39:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2GdDq4052114; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 09:39:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2Gd7q4051932 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 09:39:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fc7.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.199]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 24DDD5EE07D for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 17:38:53 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002f01c4c0fa$76c908e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001a01c4c02e$070c6d20$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <11c401c4c0ea$381384a0$0400a8c0@compaqub> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Chenille Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 17:39:03 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello, I am sorry to say that i dont know anything about chenille before the 1700 years. Saint Aubin describes it in his book Art of the Embroiderer, and there are examples of Altar Cloths embroidered with chenille. I think that a fine wowen chenille fabric would be a good substitute for the fine cut velvets. I also thoaght that some reenactors could use a chenille thread and embroider their forepart or whatever so that it looks like cut velvet. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 3:42 PM Subject: [h-cost] Chenille > When was chenille first used? If it's a latish thing (which I assume to be > the case, though apparently it's at least as early as 1781) is there > anything before say around 1550 that it could be said to mimic? I've been > looking around for fancyish brocades and cut velvets, and annoyingly > enough, > some of the most accurate designs are being sold in chenille. Could a > finely > woven chenille fabric, by any stretch of the imagination, mimic real > renaissance era cut velvets? > > -E House > Liberty in Our Lifetime - www.freestateproject.org > Coming Soon - http://www.seamcheckers.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 2 13:44:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA2IiF1F014764 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 13:44:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2Ic64a012622 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 2 Nov 2004 11:38:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2Ibrq4049496; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 11:37:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (chori.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2Ibpq4049366 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 11:37:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ldownward@chori.org) X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Sophos http://raeinternet.com/mpp Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP-TLS id 1603168 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 02 Nov 2004 10:37:43 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.0.0.040405 Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 10:37:42 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] trick or treat From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <004201c4c0ec$9a7748a0$6401a8c0@c8g2n3> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What a wonderful idea! One child has moved on to college so we had only the 13 year old to trick or treat, and she wanted to be with her friends not ours. My husband and I wandered along a very busy upscale commercial street watching other peoples' kids in their finery. Our favorite group was the four boys dressed as early Beatles -- shaggy wigs cut just so, matching sharkskin suits, skinny black ties and toy guitars labeled "The Beatles". They looked marvelous. My daughter, used to wearing historical costumes from birth, opted for a bright green 1960s vintage dress we found at the flea market that someone made up to look like a flapper with lots of fringe. She had the right accessories, hair and makeup at least, but that dress... And there was nothing I could do about it. It's ok, I'm letting go now. LynnD > From: Mys > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 08:59:50 -0600 > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] trick or treat > > Hi, I am new to the group but had such a wonderful Halloween, I though I > would share. > > I have 5 children so we decided to do the cast of the Wizard of OZ. > > Hubby was the Scarecrow > I was the Wicked Witch . > 11yo son was the Tin Man. > 8yo son was the Lion ( I even sculpted the latex face piece, he look just > like the one in the movie) > 5yo daughter was Dorothy. (if I ever see red glitter again... :-) > 3yo daughter was Glenda > 1yo daughter was a blue flying monkey (complete with hand fethered blue > wings) > > Much to my childrens enjoyment we won 3 different costume contests. > > They had such a wonderful time they are already planning our group costume > for next year. > > I hope everyone had a wonderful, fun, and safe holiday. > > Mysteri > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 2 13:57:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA2IvWnb014829 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 13:57:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2Iuq4a014880 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 2 Nov 2004 11:56:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2Iukq4065206; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 11:56:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hall.mail.mindspring.net (hall.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2Iufq4065137 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 11:56:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from sdn-ap-009masprip0167.dialsprint.net ([63.186.144.167]) by hall.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CP3pg-0002Kd-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 02 Nov 2004 13:56:40 -0500 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 13:57:35 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] trick or treat o-t fyi From: ruthanne baumgartner To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200411021550.KAA23879@courageux.concentric.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO See http://www.snopes.com/horrors/mayhem/needles.htm for the full story on razors and needles (aha! if sewing needles, is it really off-topic?). Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar-gypsy and amateur costumer on 11/2/04 10:50 AM, Julie at jtknits@jtknits.cts.com wrote: > I'm in Southern California. We're seeing much less of the door-to-door trick > or treating. Even when I was a kid my mom wouldn't let me eat any homemade > treats unless it was someone we knew. Hospital X-ray rooms would allow you to > check your candy bag because some sickos were putting razor blades and needles > in the apples and candy bars. Lots of the shopping malls have safe trick or > treating for the kids - plus it brings in a lot of more potential customers. > A real win-win. We live in an area with 2 acre properties. We wouldn't even > be able to finish our own street before we pooped out . > > I'm seeing lots more adult participation though. Too much fun to let the kids > have it all. > Julie > >> I have seen movies where they show how the children goes arround for trick or >> treat. I am green of envy on you that you have this wonderfull tradition. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 2 14:08:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA2J87Ev014895 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 14:08:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2J7Q4a016183 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 2 Nov 2004 12:07:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2J7Kq4073607; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 12:07:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hall.mail.mindspring.net (hall.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2J7Hq4073560 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 12:07:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from sdn-ap-009masprip0167.dialsprint.net ([63.186.144.167]) by hall.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CP3zv-0002Y8-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 02 Nov 2004 14:07:16 -0500 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 14:08:11 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] trick or treat From: ruthanne baumgartner To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Most of the kids in my neighborhood were woefully polyestered this year, with the most common being some sort of commercial hooded black T-tunic as a "monk" costume (one original boy was also wearing a helmet with a face mask, and announced that he was "The First Paint-Ball Monk"). On the adorable side were two matching ponies, one pink and one blue, neither more than 30" tall. They looked like large stuffed plush toys with human legs--I wonder where they got those costumes! Supposedly Spiderman was the hot costume this year, at least in this area, but I had only three of them, one of whom was traveling with Superman. One VERY good lion, about 24" high. I mistook a Tinkerbelle for a ballerina, although why EITHER of those possibilities would be wearing plastic flip-flops is anybody's guess. None came up to the wonderful achievement of two little girls last year, who came as Old Ladies, complete with cardigans, gloves, flowered hats, curly grey wigs, glasses, and little handbags--they were the spittin image of my grandmother in her prime! I'd say they were wearing vintage everything with the possible exception of their shoes, which were just flat pumps. (Well, I can't say they were wearing grandmotherly undergarments either, but everything I could SEE looked like the real thing.) --Ruth Anne Baumgartner on 11/2/04 1:37 PM, Lynn Downward at ldownward@chori.org wrote: > What a wonderful idea! One child has moved on to college so we had only the > 13 year old to trick or treat, and she wanted to be with her friends not > ours. My husband and I wandered along a very busy upscale commercial street > watching other peoples' kids in their finery. Our favorite group was the > four boys dressed as early Beatles -- shaggy wigs cut just so, matching > sharkskin suits, skinny black ties and toy guitars labeled "The Beatles". > They looked marvelous. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 2 14:17:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA2JHAGC014960 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 14:17:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2JGG4a017216 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 2 Nov 2004 12:16:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2JGCq4080494; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 12:16:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta207-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta207-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2JG5q4080195 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 12:16:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from g.trussardi@xtra.co.nz) Received: from mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.186]) by mta207-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20041102191550.TMAZ28966.mta207-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 08:15:50 +1300 Received: from TRUSSARDI ([219.88.27.68]) by mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20041102191547.FQBX13668.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@TRUSSARDI> for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 08:15:47 +1300 From: "Gabriella Trussardi" To: Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 08:15:45 +1300 Message-ID: <000001c4c110$5b729550$441b58db@TRUSSARDI> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: trick or treat X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO How sad I am that in New Zealand Halloween seems to be dying out. When I was little all the kids on my street took part (a sheet with holes cut in was all we could muster for costumes though). This year we had only 2 groups of kids come to our house, and my daughter and her friends decided after getting such a bad reaction from so many houses last year, this year they would stay in, eat pizza and watch a video. In the last 5 years so many vocal 'concerned citizens' sent letters to newspapers, posted "no Halloween here" flyers on their gates, and generally behaved curmudgeonly, that their message seems to be getting through. The main bugbears - treat-or-treating teaches children to beg, and that it is an American tradition that has no place in New Zealand. I see those same people have no problem lobbying for free-trade agreements with the US, using a dollar as a unit of currency rather than a pound and watching Fox news all night. And one can argue in vain with them about the actual origins of Halloween. I feel so disappointed now I won't get to make my offspring a new costume every year, although my daughter might be glad! She was always embarrassed that hers was so much better than everyone else's and would often leave half the costume behind so she wouldn't look too good (Kiwis are weird about that sometimes). gabriella _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 2 14:20:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA2JKA81014987 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 14:20:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2JJT4a017591 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 2 Nov 2004 12:19:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2JJSq4082913; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 12:19:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from serrano.cc.columbia.edu (IDENT:cu41754@serrano.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.206.20]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2JJLq5082784 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 12:19:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from asj2001@columbia.edu) Received: from VAIO (dyn-ec-193-81.dyn.columbia.edu [160.39.193.81]) (user=asj2001 mech=LOGIN bits=0) by serrano.cc.columbia.edu (8.13.0/8.13.0) with ESMTP id iA2JJIjJ004086 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 14:19:19 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002f01c4c110$ad1d69c0$9865fea9@VAIO> From: "Alexia S. Jacobs" To: References: <200411021900.iA2J0nq4068321@net.indra.com> Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 14:17:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-No-Spam-Score: Local X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.40 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: trick or treat X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The children in the building I grew up in still trick or treat the old-fashioned way. Apartment buildings, particularly co-ops where everyone knows everyone from board meetings are ideal for trick-or-treating. Fifty-two apartments almost all with plenty of candy. You take the back elevator to the top and walk down, and you can always move on to your friend's building for even more! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 2 14:34:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA2JY3RO015146 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 14:34:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2JWv4a019100 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 2 Nov 2004 12:32:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2JWsq4093139; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 12:32:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tombstone.b.org.nz (qmailr@tombstone.paradise.gen.nz [202.49.254.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2JUEq5091194 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 12:30:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gold@where.else.net.nz) Received: (qmail 12452 invoked by uid 1057); 2 Nov 2004 19:30:11 -0000 Received: from gold@where.else.net.nz by tombstone by uid 71 with qmail-scanner-1.22 (clamdscan: 0.70. spamassassin: 2.63. Clear:RC:1(203.79.122.104):. Processed in 0.027722 secs); 02 Nov 2004 19:30:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.0.100?) (gold@203.79.122.104) by tombstone.paradise.gen.nz with SMTP; 2 Nov 2004 19:30:11 -0000 Message-ID: <4187E038.9010502@where.else.net.nz> Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 08:30:00 +1300 From: Melissa Brown User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.2 (Windows/20040707) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: trick or treat References: <000001c4c110$5b729550$441b58db@TRUSSARDI> In-Reply-To: <000001c4c110$5b729550$441b58db@TRUSSARDI> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just moved to New Zealand myself from the States and was really disappointed in what was a virtually non-existant holiday. Halloween has been my favorite holiday since childhood. Not having children knocking on the door for the first time (well, ever really) made me very sad. Thanks for explaining about Kiwi tradition. While I'm trying to assimilate here, I think this is one tradition I'll try to continue... even if I am the only one. I guess I can always get my fiance to knock on the door for me and yell "trick or treat"! Melissa Gabriella Trussardi wrote: > How sad I am that in New Zealand Halloween seems to be dying out. W _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 2 14:38:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA2JcLA3015194 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 14:38:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2JaC4a019463 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 2 Nov 2004 12:36:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2JZnq4095187; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 12:36:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2JYrq4094542 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 12:35:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.103] (pm7-103.eos.net [205.133.149.103]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id iA2JYHKi004897 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 14:34:17 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 14:29:52 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200411021900.iA2J0nq5068321@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver on 205.133.149.17 X-DCC-sonic.net-Metrics: net.indra.com 1156; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Halloween X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Gee, you people are all a little too much for me to contend with! We had a fun Halloween, and we all dressed up, but we're pretty average. My husband wore a home-made skeleton costume. He started it last year with black sweatpants and a sweatsuit, which he painted bones on. This year he painted the back of the suit, and bought a black ski mask which he painted a skull and neck bones on. Yuck! I was a pirate. I wore black pants and part of an old Renaissance dance costume -- shirt and doublet without sleeves (actually, I liked it much better as a pirate costume) then a bandana and tri-cornered hat. My daughter, 10, was a "stylish witch." She wore orange and black striped hose, an orange feather boa (both from Kmart), my witch's hat from last year, which had black and silver feathers around the brim (bought at Joanne Fabric) and a black dress with black tulle/gold spiderweb sleeves. That part I made. My son (7) wore a SWAT Team costume we bought at Kmart -- much cheaper than I could have made it for, and he loved it. We had a neighborhood party. The three kids next door came as the Yellow Power Ranger, Superman, and a ninja -- all bought. The three kids across the street came as a panther (home made), a ladybug and a lion (bought). Another boy came as "some kind of alien" in a costume he inherited. Two other adults dressed up -- a witch and a hippie -- and two more wore masks. It was fun. I have a picture but no site to put it on. Half the kids who came by did not have on any costumes. :-( But the rest came as the usual -- brides, monsters, rock stars, superheroes. They were adorable, and extra polite this year! In our neighborhood, only about half the adults gave out candy. When I was little, EVERY house gave it out. The only house on my street that didn't was owned by Seventh Day Adventists, who don't celebrate holidays. They really stood out. Today half the neighbors just don't bother. It's a little sad, but on the other hand my kids got LOADS of candy, so the other half are extra generous! Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 2 18:21:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA2NLVo9017224 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 18:21:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2NKN4a013074 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 2 Nov 2004 16:20:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2NKBq4071380; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 16:20:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grunt7.ihug.co.nz (grunt7.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.47]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA2NK8q4071187 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 16:20:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from p451-apx1.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.193.197] by grunt7.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CP7wR-00054L-00; Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:19:55 +1300 Message-ID: <004701c4c132$75f91440$c5c1adcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000001c4c110$5b729550$441b58db@TRUSSARDI> Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: trick or treat Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 12:19:53 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > How sad I am that in New Zealand Halloween seems to be dying out. When I > was little all the kids on my street took part (a sheet with holes cut > in was all we could muster for costumes though). I'd have to disagree. I've lived in three main cities and it's only grown in the last few years, especially in Auckland. It was non existant while I was a child (though at home I made a cardboard witches hat once.) This year we had four big groups of children, accompanied by an adult in each group) and one child with his dad. We live in a very quiet neighbourhood too, so I was surprised there were as many as did come. And they were all dressed too... usually store bought, but a much better selection than last year.. and the year before... i think it must depend on what part of the country you are from. There are parties for adults now as well, and people dressing up for work...... far different story to when I was a child and teenager (80s and 90s) > In the last 5 years so many vocal 'concerned citizens' sent letters to > newspapers, posted "no Halloween here" flyers on their gates, and > generally behaved curmudgeonly, that their message seems to be getting > through. The main bugbears - treat-or-treating teaches children to beg, > and that it is an American tradition that has no place in New Zealand. I haven't seen any of that this year. Perhaps because I live in Auckland? And there are simply too many poeple and smaller groups up here that no one really organises a proper protest. Ahh I remeber my first year at Uni and sitting int he middle of Queen street shouting "Lockwood is a -----" anyway... > I feel so disappointed now I won't get to make my offspring a new > costume every year, although my daughter might be glad! She was always > embarrassed that hers was so much better than everyone else's and would > often leave half the costume behind so she wouldn't look too good (Kiwis > are weird about that sometimes). Hey next year I'm thinking it'll be worthwhile getting my costumes out and greeting the children who come in ver greater numbers! It's only been the last three years we've had kids knocking on the door, and they are increasing in numbers, not decreasing. I do think they should make costumes to suit the ocassion though;) It's Spring here, and broad daylight when they come around. So I'm going to think about setting up somehting outside, and maybe dress as Glinda or someone in a foofy dress to suit the weather;) I also have a plan to say "anyone wiht a better costume than me gets a prize" Probably somehtign arts and crafty actually.. seeing as they'd be more likely to be into that sort of thing than lollies. We also gave out dried fruit and mueslie bars as we didn't have any lollies in the house. Except for some dutch liquorice....... michaela de bruce (constantly invited to Halloween parties that always fall through... yay for tradition.....) http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 2 19:11:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA30BORH017350 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 19:11:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA30Ak4a017558 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 2 Nov 2004 17:10:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA30Aeq4005528; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 17:10:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA30Aaq5005469 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 17:10:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id iA306wTA018860 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 19:06:58 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 02 Nov 2004 19:06:57 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <418821FA.9030004@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 19:10:34 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: trick or treat in the other hemisphere References: <000001c4c110$5b729550$441b58db@TRUSSARDI> <004701c4c132$75f91440$c5c1adcb@michaela> In-Reply-To: <004701c4c132$75f91440$c5c1adcb@michaela> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO michaela wrote: > I do think they should make costumes to suit the ocassion though;) It's > Spring here, and broad daylight when they come around. I have often thought that the S. hemisphere should celebrate much of the calendar 1/2 year ahead of the N. hemisphere. That way you could have Christmas in winter, April Fool's would become October Fool's Day (ie, in the spring) and so on. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 2 19:33:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA30XwIT017411 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 19:33:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA30XE4a019492 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 2 Nov 2004 17:33:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA30X6q4020732; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 17:33:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grunt2.ihug.co.nz (grunt2.ihug.co.nz [203.109.254.42]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA30W2q4019957 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 17:32:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from p42-max5.akl.ihug.co.nz (michaela) [203.173.207.170] by grunt2.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CP93q-0008Kb-00; Wed, 03 Nov 2004 13:31:38 +1300 Message-ID: <000901c4c13c$7d03b510$aacfadcb@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000001c4c110$5b729550$441b58db@TRUSSARDI><004701c4c132$75f91440$c5c1adcb@michaela> <418821FA.9030004@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: trick or treat in the other hemisphere Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 13:31:27 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I have often thought that the S. hemisphere should celebrate much of the > calendar 1/2 year ahead of the N. hemisphere. That way you could have > Christmas in winter, April Fool's would become October Fool's Day (ie, > in the spring) and so on. Absolutely.. but then many events tied in with ancient fertility/"make the darn sun come back" rites and comandered for other religious festivals would be difficult because of the relious focus? We do have mid-winter Christmas feasts if we plan ahead. Of course in Auckland and firther North even mid-winter is snow free;) And on dressing up topics... ummm.. well I have done caroling here. In summer. In costume... It's very very odd. michaela de bruce http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 2 21:15:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA32FVJX017898 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 21:15:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA32Eo4a027016 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 2 Nov 2004 19:14:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA32Eiq4074770; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 19:14:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA32Efq5074747 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 19:14:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iA32NLZp017836 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 21:23:22 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] trick or treat Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 21:29:04 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <200411021350.iA2DoSq5036274@net.indra.com> <4187969E.6040705@verizon.net> <004201c4c0ec$9a7748a0$6401a8c0@c8g2n3> In-Reply-To: <004201c4c0ec$9a7748a0$6401a8c0@c8g2n3> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200411022129.04476.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 02 November 2004 9:59 am, Mys wrote: > Hi, I am new to the group but had such a wonderful Halloween, I though I > would share. > > I have 5 children so we decided to do the cast of the Wizard of OZ. > > Hubby was the Scarecrow > I was the Wicked Witch . > 11yo son was the Tin Man. > 8yo son was the Lion ( I even sculpted the latex face piece, he look just > like the one in the movie) > 5yo daughter was Dorothy. (if I ever see red glitter again... :-) > 3yo daughter was Glenda > 1yo daughter was a blue flying monkey (complete with hand fethered blue > wings) > > Much to my childrens enjoyment we won 3 different costume contests. That is so cool. You should see if you can enter your troop at CostumeCon, sometime! -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 2 23:36:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA34aM55018478 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 23:36:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA34ZP4a006433 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 2 Nov 2004 21:35:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA34ZEq4044050; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 21:35:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065d01.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065d01.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.248]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA34Z9q4044013 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 21:35:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from costumrs@radiks.net) Received: from user-12l20go.cable.mindspring.com ([69.81.2.24] helo=pierre-ynmjysj2.radiks.net) by pop-a065d01.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CPCrV-0004ye-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 02 Nov 2004 20:35:09 -0800 Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.2.20041102222056.0254e578@pop.radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net@pop.radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 22:25:31 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <200411021900.iA2J0nq5068321@net.indra.com> References: <200411021900.iA2J0nq5068321@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Trick or Treat X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO We had all of 7 kids ring the bell this Halloween. This beat last year, when we only had 2. The weather was pretty decent, not too cold (about 53 deg. F) so don't know where they all were. We might have gotten more except we turned the light out after one "little monster" hit the doorbell about 10 times, pounded on the outside door, then had the nerve to open the screen and pound on the wood door. We didn't answer the door for him(generic him), and he ruined it for any others who might have come later. And none of them had costumes on. Next year we may not bother. Sandy "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed to Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly -- Why They Are Simply Doomed. Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 3 00:12:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA35CkPo018566 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 00:12:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA35964a008356 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 2 Nov 2004 22:09:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA3590q4058814; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 22:09:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA358wq5058786 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 22:08:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iA35HdhJ021566 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 00:17:39 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Trick or Treat Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 00:23:22 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <200411021900.iA2J0nq5068321@net.indra.com> <6.1.2.0.2.20041102222056.0254e578@pop.radiks.net> In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20041102222056.0254e578@pop.radiks.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200411030023.22286.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 02 November 2004 11:25 pm, Pierre & Sandy Pettinger wrote: > We had all of 7 kids ring the bell this Halloween. This beat last year, > when we only had 2. The weather was pretty decent, not too cold (about 53 > deg. F) so don't know where they all were. We might have gotten more > except we turned the light out after one "little monster" hit the doorbell > about 10 times, pounded on the outside door, then had the nerve to open the > screen and pound on the wood door. That's probably right. In my neighborhood, there's an unwritten law that trick or treaters don't go to houses where the front porch light isn't on. -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 3 00:51:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA35p4es018652 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 00:51:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA35oQ4a010617 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 2 Nov 2004 22:50:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA35oHq4076690; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 22:50:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm29.prodigy.net (ylpvm29-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA35oFq4076674 for ; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 22:50:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-61-83.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.61.83]) by ylpvm29.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA35oCHY030297 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 00:50:13 -0500 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20041102213217.025d1818@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 21:50:10 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] trick or treat In-Reply-To: References: <000401c4c037$cacd4140$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >We had 300 children come by before we ran out of candy. I always buy peanut butter Halloween candy because I know I won't eat it. When those round cardboard things called Pogs were popular, I got a bagful at the flea market and delighted the kids with them. No calories there. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 3 04:19:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA39IsMt015696 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 04:18:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA39ID4a001258 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 3 Nov 2004 02:18:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA39Hhq4070266; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 02:18:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.254.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA39Hfq4070246 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 02:17:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 09:17:18 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: [h-cost] Queen Arnegunde??? To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3C4F@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Queen Arnegunde??? Thread-Index: AcTBD0ma2Ik/rnv6TheTuiXAsp9tEAAdjnVQ content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.20 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Althea, > I will pull my notes out and see what I can find. It may be next week > as I'm heading to a conference tomorrow. (Any going to ITAA in Portland?) Many thanks! Have fun at the conference! Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 3 05:55:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA3AtNYl015935 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 05:55:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA3ArR4a009570 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 3 Nov 2004 03:53:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA3ArIq4017470; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 03:53:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.66]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA3ArFq4017446 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 03:53:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [4.152.120.130] (helo=MOM) by smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CPIlO-00067w-HH for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 03 Nov 2004 05:53:15 -0500 Message-ID: <00ca01c4c193$51cd9f80$0300a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 05:53:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 140fedcc4d524cc6b18d26c2e407058b94f5150ab1c16ac08f4233f47979de2686fd2ebe8c79ccfd2104b39749be8179350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.152.120.130 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Job Announcment: Film Costume Designer X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id iA3AtNYl015935 Status: RO I just received this announcement. If you are interested in this job, please contact the person at the end of this message. I am just the messenger passing along this information. ************************************************************ Just got a call from a young producer who is doing a low budget independent film here in LA. His set costumer was just in a car wreck (she's OKish) but she's leaving the shoot. Needs someone to start tomorrow. Wardrobe department is in good shape. The Wardrobe Supervisor is prepared to mentor. Biggest name star is Sally Kirkland... some other "know" TV actors... very professional crew. Good show for someone to step into if they can afford to work for a low non union rate. After long conversation, my read is that this is a great crew to get to know and network with. He says that even if someone can't start tomorrow, he'd like to hear from anyone interested even as late as next week. If you know anyone in LA area who would be able to jump in "already swimming" please pass this on to them. Contact info: Producer: Jesse Berger Project: What's Up Scarlet? Shooting now in LA (This week primarily in Hollywood) Phone: 805-637-7673 *************************************************************************** Good Luck! Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Online Reference Library, AND Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumegallery.com/research.htm www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 3 08:11:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA3DBSLZ019441 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 08:11:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA3DAi4a016461 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 3 Nov 2004 06:10:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA3DARq4080392; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 06:10:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA3DAPq4080305 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 06:10:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.13) id A8B8BED0096; Wed, 03 Nov 2004 08:10:16 -0500 Received: from 209.131.81.108 ([209.131.81.108] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 3 Nov 04 13:10:15 -0000 Message-ID: <001701c4c1a6$77eeff20$6c5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6DC7D769-29B2-11D9-9C46-000393DA0BCC@providenceday.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] need millinery supplies Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 08:10:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0444-3, 10/29/2004), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have been off line for a couple of days, so this maybe OT. I usually find a straw or felt with a slight flare (!950s-60s) and cut a U shape from the back...about 6-7", large enough to fit the back neckline. After binding this cut edge, I then can cover it in any desired form and color. Sometimes it is necessary to clip the 'wings' slightly that are the results of the re shaping of the brim. Then add ties which are mounted on the outside just at the edge of the 'u'. My antique hats usually have wide ribbon ties of about 3-4". Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grace Morris" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 8:57 AM Subject: [h-cost] need millinery supplies > I usually sew an earlier time period, but now I find that I need to > come up with a "Victorian" caroling outfit in pretty quick order. > Nothing fancy, just nice enough to earn $$ over the holiday season. > I'm in need of a basic straw hat base--I can handle all the decorating > myself. Can anyone recommend a fast, on-line supplier? > > Grace/Jessamyn > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 3 09:24:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA3EOGik019907 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 09:24:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA3EIR4a020604 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 3 Nov 2004 07:18:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA3EIIq4013677; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 07:18:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA3EIGq4013580 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 07:18:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 03 Nov 2004 08:18:10 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 08:17:55 -0600 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: trick or treat X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO We are on a fairly busy street so we don't get very many trick or treaters, which is very disappointing for my husband who loooooves to dress up in costume and give out the candy. We have a screened in porch that I decorate with cobwebs, spiders, pumpkins and orange lights. One year (very good weather) he hide just outside in the bushes dressed as pumpkin head. Probably his best year he dressed as a scarecrow and sprawled in a camp chair in the middle of the porch, bucket-o-candy set temptingly between his feet. Kids had to open the screen door and come all the way up onto the porch to get their treat. He didn't jump at them just said 'Hello' and moved his head but they kids were usually wound so tight they jumped/yelled anyway. He said one kid cleared the door, steps & sidewalk in one leap he was out of there so fast :). We used to have a small group of regulars that always came by to see what he was dress up as but it looks like they have outgrown the door-to-door stuff. This year it was a little cool and drizzly in our area so we only got 3, and one of those was one of our neighboors, who got carried over by his mother. He is all of 18mos, I think we were his only stop this year but I see him becoming a regular :). Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 3 10:54:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA3FsCsR020897 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 10:54:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA3FqJ4a000213 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 3 Nov 2004 08:52:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA3Fq7q4077998; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 08:52:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-118.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA3Fq5q4077883 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 08:52:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by mail.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C40D425D5 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 11:22:50 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4188FE9C.1020609@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 09:51:56 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Trick or Treat References: <200411021900.iA2J0nq5068321@net.indra.com> <6.1.2.0.2.20041102222056.0254e578@pop.radiks.net> In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20041102222056.0254e578@pop.radiks.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Pierre & Sandy Pettinger wrote: > We had all of 7 kids ring the bell this Halloween. ... > And none of them had costumes on. I don't believe there are any trick-or-treat aged children left in our neighborhood. The school bus drops off two or three high-school aged kids, but there are no little ones left. After a similar experience our first year here, we switched to adult parties. It looks as if, for those of us who grew up trick-or-treating , that celebrating the holiday is still a part of who we are. It helps when a couple of us are costume nuts, we start planning in the summer, looking for ideas from movies or popular trends and comparing notes. We've had a couple sewing parties, even. These days we go over to a friend's house on Halloween evening, in costume, and hand out candy in his neighborhood where we get a hundred or so little visitors. They are all costumed and polite. Even the parents dress up, and nearly every porch has a jack-o-lantern. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 3 12:18:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA3HIa0M021340 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 12:18:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA3HHX4a010510 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 3 Nov 2004 10:17:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA3HHLq4048423; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 10:17:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-118.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA3HHIq4048273 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 10:17:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by mail.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDBC1425D5 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 12:48:20 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <418912A7.3020306@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 11:17:27 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] shopping in London X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My best friend is getting married and taking her honeymoon in England. She's asked what I would like for her to bring me back from the trip. Being a fellow costumer I trust her to pick out nice books or historical related goodies, but I really have no idea what's available over there. Are there any "must have's" from London these days? They may try and see the Bath museum if they have time. I remember some discussion about the costume exhibit maybe not being open. Does anyone know what the deal is or how I'd find out? Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 3 12:44:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA3Hi214021423 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 12:44:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA3HhM4a012970 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 3 Nov 2004 10:43:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA3HhGq4068938; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 10:43:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.204]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id iA3HhBq4068776 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 10:43:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Nov 2004 17:43:06 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041103173309.0145af38@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 17:43:38 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] shopping in London In-Reply-To: <418912A7.3020306@reddawn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:17 03/11/2004 -0600, you wrote: >My best friend is getting married and taking her honeymoon in England. >She's asked what I would like for her to bring me back from the trip. >Being a fellow costumer I trust her to pick out nice books or historical >related goodies, but I really have no idea what's available over there. >Are there any "must have's" from London these days? > >They may try and see the Bath museum if they have time. I remember some >discussion about the costume exhibit maybe not being open. Does anyone >know what the deal is or how I'd find out? I am going to Bath on Monday, to see the "Jane Austen" exhibition - about clothes in the Austen movies, like Pride and Prejudice etc. I will post further once I have been, but I understand from recent correspondence on another place I chat that the exhibition has been so successful it has been extended well into 2005. Any of the museums have shops attached so there will be costume related goodies at the V and A, and the Museum of London, which has a new exhibit open just recently, which I am also planning on going to next week. Fabric is much more expensive here than in the U.S. We don't have chains of stores like Walmart or JoAnn's where you can get inexpensive fabrics. Also all sewing gadgets are more expensive, and mostly, so are books! Tell her to try R.D. Franks (www.rdfranks.co.uk) for books on both fashion and costume. In fact most stuff in America is 2/3rds cheaper than here, at the very least. Do you wonder I spent a lot of money in JoAnn's and Barnes and Noble in the summer when I was in the U.S?? She should go and drool over Liberty's and visit the fabric department, just to enjoy the shop. And there is nothing like Liberty lawn anywhere else that I know of, unless imported. Don't know if that helps at all, but I will report on the exhibitions. Suzi in London _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 3 13:07:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA3I6xdP021524 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 13:06:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA3I6T4a016033 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 3 Nov 2004 11:06:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA3I6Pq4088765; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 11:06:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f27.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.77]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA3I6Nq4088672 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 11:06:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 10:06:12 -0800 Received: from 129.244.6.162 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 03 Nov 2004 18:05:09 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.162] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:05:09 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Nov 2004 18:06:12.0707 (UTC) FILETIME=[CDB92330:01C4C1CF] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Queen Arnegunde??? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is probably not what you are looking for, but I was refently give a copy of Dossiers d'Archeologie n.297, Octobre 2004, which is on "Saint Denis de Ste Genevieve a Suger" which has several articles on Merovingian finds. If you can dig up a copy (probably easier to do in the UK than it will be over here), it's worth the effort. Marc _________________________________________________________________ Check out Election 2004 for up-to-date election news, plus voter tools and more! http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 3 13:42:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA3IghFp021726 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 13:42:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA3Iar4a019804 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 3 Nov 2004 11:36:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA3Iahq4013918; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 11:36:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail10.mdx.safepages.com (mail10.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.33]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA3Iafq4013859 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 11:36:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail10.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 4B6E1206FA; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 18:36:43 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust193.tnt1.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.148.193]) by mail10.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 740F520689 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 18:36:41 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <128a01c4c1d4$17e61a40$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <418912A7.3020306@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] shopping in London Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 12:36:51 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The fabric selection there is depressingly good--I've been window shopping for silk damask lately, and have been eating my heart out at what I'm seeing out of the UK that I can't get my hands on. -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 3 14:25:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA3JPgb1021935 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 14:25:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA3JOi4a024893 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 3 Nov 2004 12:24:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA3JOZq4052484; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 12:24:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA3JOVq5052425 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 12:24:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-187.sonic.net [209.148.114.187]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iA3JOTMA029221 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 11:24:30 -0800 Message-ID: <4189306E.2010505@lavoltapress.com> Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 11:24:30 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Source for vintage-inspired clothes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Newport News. Their website is www.newoprt-news.com. I am looking at their Holiday '04 print catalog. I assume the same items are on their website, and/or they will send you a free print catalog too. This company often sells vintage-inspired designs. In this catalog the vintages are primarily 1920s, what I call Vaguely Victorian, 1960s, and 1970s/hippieish. Their prices are quite reasonable, especially since they have many beaded and hand crocheted items. They carry some petite and women's sizes as well as misses'. Their holiday catalog includes lots of beaded bags, at around $30-40; beaded tank tops and dresses (the dress waists run a little high for 1920s, but they're nice dresses); shoes including a 1910sish embroidered one-strap pump, an 1810sish embroidered satin flat, and some Victorianish boots and ankle boots; and a number of hand-crocheted sweaters and tops. I've ordered from them before and their quality is not haute couture but it's pretty good. Plus, a lot of this seems to be private label merchandise I just don't see anywhere else. Fran Lavolta Press Two new books on "natural form" era clothing! http://www.lavoltapress.com . _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 3 14:35:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA3JZ4gG021982 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 14:35:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA3JYC4a025805 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 3 Nov 2004 12:34:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA3JY6q4060426; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 12:34:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz (avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.159]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA3JY3q4060212 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 12:34:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from g.trussardi@xtra.co.nz) Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.186]) by avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20041103193348.ZZC22015.avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 08:33:48 +1300 Received: from TRUSSARDI ([219.88.28.77]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20041103193346.WDHN56.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@TRUSSARDI> for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 08:33:46 +1300 From: "Gabriella Trussardi" To: Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 08:33:44 +1300 Message-ID: <000001c4c1dc$0943ca20$4d1c58db@TRUSSARDI> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <200411031058.iA3Atlq7018454@net.indra.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: trick or treat; costume prizes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Hey next year I'm thinking it'll be worthwhile getting my costumes out and >greeting the children who come in ver greater numbers! I do think they >should make costumes to suit the ocassion though;) It's >Spring here, and broad daylight when they come around. > >So I'm going to think about setting up somehting outside, and maybe dress >as Glinda or someone in a foofy dress to suit the weather;) > >I also have a plan to say "anyone wiht a better costume than me gets a >prize" Probably somehtign arts and crafty actually.. seeing as they'd be >more likely to be into that sort of thing than lollies. > >michaela de bruce I'm so happy to hear Halloween is thriving in places in NZ! And I'm thinking your idea is a great one Michaela. With a little effort we could have an Auckland road that was to Halloween as Franklin Road is to Christmas Lights (i.e. cars queue to drive down, plays on TV at Xmas time). I should move near you :-) gabriella _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 3 16:35:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA3LZAEn022546 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 16:35:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA3LYA4a008387 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 3 Nov 2004 14:34:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA3LXrq4055327; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 14:33:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m25.mx.aol.com (imo-m25.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA3LXgq4055104 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 14:33:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Kitsune242@aol.com) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.65.37642b88 (15876) for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 16:33:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from aol.com (mow-m02.webmail.aol.com [64.12.184.130]) by air-id07.mx.aol.com (v103.7) with ESMTP id MAILINID73-3e0441894eac72; Wed, 03 Nov 2004 16:33:32 -0400 Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 16:33:32 -0500 From: Kitsune242@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Source for vintage-inspired clothes MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <0F38350C.376EC806.0BD9917F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 169.237.109.158 X-AOL-Language: english Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings All! I just tried the website it is actually www.newport-news.com Happy shopping! Kit In a message dated 11/3/2004 2:24:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, Lavolta Press writes: >Newport News.  Their website is www.newoprt-news.com.  I am looking at >their Holiday '04 print catalog. I assume the same items are on their >website, and/or they will send you a free print catalog too. > >This company often sells vintage-inspired designs. In this catalog the >vintages are primarily 1920s, what I call Vaguely Victorian, 1960s, and >1970s/hippieish.  Their prices are quite reasonable, especially since >they have many beaded and hand crocheted items.  They carry some petite >and women's sizes as well as misses'.  Their holiday catalog includes >lots of beaded bags, at around $30-40; beaded tank tops and dresses (the >dress waists run a little high for 1920s, but they're nice dresses);   >shoes  including a 1910sish embroidered one-strap pump, an 1810sish >embroidered satin flat, and some Victorianish boots and ankle boots; and >a number of hand-crocheted sweaters and tops.  I've ordered from them >before and their quality is not haute couture but it's pretty good.   >Plus, a lot of this seems to be private label merchandise I just don't >see anywhere else. > >Fran >Lavolta Press >Two new books on "natural form" era clothing! >http://www.lavoltapress.com > >. > > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > -- Kit If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - Kenneth Cole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 3 20:30:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA41UBOR024331 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 20:30:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA41TM4a002974 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 3 Nov 2004 18:29:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA41TAq4017708; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 18:29:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA41T7q4017648 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 18:29:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.13) id A5DCE55007C; Wed, 03 Nov 2004 20:29:00 -0500 Received: from 209.131.81.101 ([209.131.81.101] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 4 Nov 04 01:29:00 -0000 Message-ID: <004c01c4c20d$ac2b51a0$655183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <011101c4bfe7$06100400$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> Subject: Re: [h-cost] need millinery supplies Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 08:27:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0444-3, 10/29/2004), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO So look in your 'design box' of slightly tired hats and make your own frame... Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Rice" To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 2:47 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] need millinery supplies > Ooh! I was looking through the Amazon Drygoods pattern catalog tonight and came across a simple > bonnet frame. Says it's ready to cover and line in your choice of fabrics, and decorate as you > like. Only $12.50! Sounds reasonable to me~! > In any case, that pattern catalog is amazing! > > Order a catalog here: > > http://www.amazondrygoods.com/ > > HTH- > > ::Linda:: > > > On Behalf Of otsisto > Subject: RE: [h-cost] need millinery supplies > > I am not 100% sure but usually straw hat were worn in the spring and summer. > wool felted hats were fall and winter. I think one of the major patterns > makers has a pattern for a caroler's bonnet. Don't have the time right now > to look. > > De > > > Not sure if this is what you are looking for, but its straw, and it's cheap! > As to fast, I really > don't know, I've not used this supplier. > http://www.hatsupply.com/costume_hats.htm > Scroll all the way to the bottom. > > HTH- > ::Linda:: > > -----Original Message----- > On Behalf Of Grace Morris > [h-cost] need millinery supplies > > I usually sew an earlier time period, but now I find that I need to > come up with a "Victorian" caroling outfit in pretty quick order. > Nothing fancy, just nice enough to earn $$ over the holiday season. > I'm in need of a basic straw hat base--I can handle all the decorating > myself. Can anyone recommend a fast, on-line supplier? > > Grace/Jessamyn > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 3 20:38:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA41cNxQ024394 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 20:38:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA41bn4a003653 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 3 Nov 2004 18:37:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA41bjq4021913; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 18:37:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-03-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (ms-smtp-03-smtplb.ohiordc.rr.com [65.24.5.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA41bgq4021891 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 18:37:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ailith@neo.rr.com) Received: from duncan (dhcp024-209-056-164.neo.rr.com [24.209.56.164]) by ms-smtp-03-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id iA41bcwa015427 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 20:37:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002001c4c20e$dccbc910$1902a8c0@duncan> From: "ailith" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 20:37:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Fw: Eleonora's gown X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Jerusha is having problems with her email and asked that I post this to the list: > Again, sorry for the delay! I kept thinking that my regular email would get > fixed and I could post to the h-costume list that the images are on the web. > My email still isn't fixed, and I'm *real* reluctant to unsub and resub just > to have everything back to normal 20 minutes later. Know what I mean? > > Anyway, if you would be so kind as to post to the list that these are the URLs > for the images of the Eleanor of Toledo burial dress. > > http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/SCA/Paintings/EleanoraBurialDress-150.jpg > http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/SCA/Paintings/EleanoraBurialDress-300.jpg > http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/SCA/Paintings/EleanoraBurialDress-72.jpg With regards, kate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 3 21:38:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA42c3UE024691 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 21:38:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA42bH4a008891 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 3 Nov 2004 19:37:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA42b9q4053187; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 19:37:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay20-dav6.bay20.hotmail.com [64.4.54.186]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA42b6q4053126 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 19:37:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 18:37:01 -0800 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by BAY20-DAV6.phx.gbl with DAV; Thu, 04 Nov 2004 02:36:48 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002001c4c20e$dccbc910$1902a8c0@duncan> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fw: Eleonora's gown Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 21:37:32 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Nov 2004 02:37:01.0443 (UTC) FILETIME=[29CB1D30:01C4C217] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Anyway, if you would be so kind as to post to the list that these > are the URLs > > for the images of the Eleanor of Toledo burial dress. > > > > > http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/SCA/Paintings/EleanoraBurialDress-150.jpg > http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/SCA/Paintings/EleanoraBurialDress-300.jpg > http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/SCA/Paintings/EleanoraBurialDress-72.jpg Wow, it's laced on the side back! And... the skirt is not split in front !?! That's a great image! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 3 21:55:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA42tSW0024784 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 21:55:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA42ss4a010867 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 3 Nov 2004 19:54:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA42smq4063683; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 19:54:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA42siq4063534 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 19:54:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole (cpe-dhcp-syd-203.214.146.77.bigblue.net.au [203.214.146.77] (may be forged)) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id iA42sNrv010304 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 13:54:29 +1100 Message-ID: <000101c4c219$750be020$4d92d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000001c4c110$5b729550$441b58db@TRUSSARDI> Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: trick or treat Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 14:11:38 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > How sad I am that in New Zealand Halloween seems to be dying out. When I > was little all the kids on my street took part (a sheet with holes cut > in was all we could muster for costumes though). This year we had only 2 > groups of kids come to our house, and my daughter and her friends > decided after getting such a bad reaction from so many houses last year, > this year they would stay in, eat pizza and watch a video. I feel so disappointed now I won't get to make my offspring a new > costume every year, although my daughter might be glad! She was always > embarrassed that hers was so much better than everyone else's and would > often leave half the costume behind so she wouldn't look too good (Kiwis > are weird about that sometimes). > gabriella I went trick or treating with friends two or three times when I was about 8-10, but we were only allowed to go to houses we knew. We often caught people by surprise who had forgotten it was Halloween or didn't know and didn't have any lollies to give out (I remember one year my mum gave out sultanas because we hadn't thought to buy any lollies). We also got a lecture at one house that as Christians we should not be celebrating this pagan holiday, we listened quietly went on to the next house and remembered not to knock on her door next year. But this was the same family who had a problem with letting their children watch Bedknobs and Broomsticks (the Disney movie) because it had a witch in it. We got one group of trick or treaters this year which seems to be roughly the same as it was when I did it or possibly a bit less but it's not a big thing, then again here I'm in a Suburb that is about 40 years old (and for a city that is only about 80 yrs old and still expanding we're an old suburb) so, unlike the newer suburbs, there aren't huge numbers of kids around the neighbourhood (e.g. about 5-10 yrs ago the southern area of Canberra was known as Nappy Valley because of all the families with young kids). But after reading this thread I thought I might encourage my (10 y.o.) brother to get his friends together for some trick or treating next year (though I probably won't be making him anything as my exams will usually be around this time). Eizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole in OR in Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra, Australia ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 3 23:05:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA445ZHE025162 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 23:05:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA444T4a016312 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 3 Nov 2004 21:04:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA444Fq4098121; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 21:04:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA444Dq4098075 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 21:04:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id DECF9111A8 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 20:04:06 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041103194630.00b15e58@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 19:53:03 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Chenille In-Reply-To: <11c401c4c0ea$381384a0$0400a8c0@compaqub> References: <001a01c4c02e$070c6d20$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:42 AM 11/2/2004 -0600, you wrote: >When was chenille first used? If it's a latish thing (which I assume to be >the case, though apparently it's at least as early as 1781) is there >anything before say around 1550 that it could be said to mimic? I've been >looking around for fancyish brocades and cut velvets, and annoyingly enough, >some of the most accurate designs are being sold in chenille. Could a finely >woven chenille fabric, by any stretch of the imagination, mimic real >renaissance era cut velvets? > >-E House >Liberty in Our Lifetime - www.freestateproject.org >Coming Soon - http://www.seamcheckers.com I would love to know the answer to that question as well. If you find out anything, please let us know. I have fallen in love with a chenille drapery fabric that I have bought to make my first Italian dress (16th c.). It really looks like the fabrics of the time, and even is two-toned blue and ivory. I doubt chenille is period appropriate for my time frame. However there are times when we have to use a fabric because it mimics the costly cut velvets in style, even tho it isn't fully "period" appropriate. I definitely cannot afford real cut velvet. However, each person has to make that decision for themselves. For what I do (ren faires) chenille fabric, if the pattern is appropriate, is an acceptable alternative in my group. But we are going for the theatrical look, not necessarily the exact materials. Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 3 23:07:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA447bvw025182 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 23:07:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA446q4a016478 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 3 Nov 2004 21:06:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA446pq4099336; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 21:06:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA444Dq4098076 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 21:04:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57C441119F for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 20:04:07 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041103195323.0249ca40@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 19:53:59 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Chenille In-Reply-To: <002f01c4c0fa$76c908e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <001a01c4c02e$070c6d20$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <11c401c4c0ea$381384a0$0400a8c0@compaqub> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 05:39 PM 11/2/2004 +0100, you wrote: >I also thoaght that some reenactors could use a chenille thread and >embroider their forepart or whatever so that it looks like cut velvet. > >Bjarne I have found chenille yarns at my local stores... but never heard of chenille threads. Where do you get your chenille threads? Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 3 23:07:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA447dxG025185 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 23:07:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA44784a016519 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 3 Nov 2004 21:07:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4473q4099462; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 21:07:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA444Dq4098077 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 21:04:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4533111E2 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 20:04:07 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041103195431.04090048@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 19:55:52 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] shopping in London In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20041103173309.0145af38@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> References: <418912A7.3020306@reddawn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 05:43 PM 11/3/2004 +0000, you wrote: >And there is nothing like Liberty lawn anywhere else that I know of, >unless imported. Hi Suzi, Do you know if the Liberty store has an online means of ordering? I have never, ever had the pleasure of seeing anything remotely known as "lawn", and would love to be able to order some. Thanks, Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 3 23:07:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA447h3J025188 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 23:07:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA446w4a016490 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 3 Nov 2004 21:06:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA446wq4099405; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 21:06:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA444Dq4098078 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 21:04:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45E2A111A5 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 20:04:08 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041103195610.023a4c10@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 19:56:50 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] shopping in London In-Reply-To: <128a01c4c1d4$17e61a40$0400a8c0@compaqub> References: <418912A7.3020306@reddawn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:36 PM 11/3/2004 -0600, you wrote: >The fabric selection there is depressingly good--I've been window shopping >for silk damask lately, and have been eating my heart out at what I'm seeing >out of the UK that I can't get my hands on. > >-E House Where are you window shopping as I want to drool, too... and why can't you get it? Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 3 23:07:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA447kFR025191 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 23:07:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA447D4a016539 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 3 Nov 2004 21:07:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA447Cq4099544; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 21:07:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA444Dq4098079 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 21:04:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B048D111EB for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 20:04:08 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041103195731.0249f2d0@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 19:57:52 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fw: Eleonora's gown In-Reply-To: <002001c4c20e$dccbc910$1902a8c0@duncan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:37 PM 11/3/2004 -0500, you wrote: > > Anyway, if you would be so kind as to post to the list that these >are the URLs > > for the images of the Eleanor of Toledo burial dress. Thank you Kate and Jerusha for sharing these images! Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 3 23:07:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA447lNQ025194 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 23:07:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA447J4a016571 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 3 Nov 2004 21:07:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA447Jq4099608; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 21:07:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA444Eq4098099 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 21:04:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A101111F5 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 20:04:09 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041103200056.02418c60@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 20:04:06 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fw: Eleonora's gown In-Reply-To: <002001c4c20e$dccbc910$1902a8c0@duncan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:37 PM 11/3/2004 -0500, you wrote: > > >http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/SCA/Paintings/EleanoraBurialDress-300.jpg This one really shows clearly the shaping of the skirt segments, including the triangular pieces. And I love the skirt and bodice embellishments. Wow, what a dress. Even in as bad a shape as this one is, the beauty is still apparant. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 3 23:18:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA44IHeL025253 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 23:18:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA44Hh4a017576 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 3 Nov 2004 21:17:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA44Hbq4005231; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 21:17:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from S3.cableone.net (smtp3.cableone.net [24.116.0.229]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA44HZq4005191 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 21:17:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kbaird@cableone.net) Received: from kimathlon (unverified [24.119.177.160]) by S3.cableone.net (CableOne SMTP Service S3) with ESMTP id 513480 for ; Wed, 03 Nov 2004 21:20:14 -0700 From: "kim baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] shopping in London Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 22:18:18 -0600 Message-ID: <000001c4c225$4ff0b4d0$6501a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20041103195431.04090048@64.87.54.245> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Abuse-Info: Send abuse complaints to abuse@cableone.net X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kimiko-- The Tana Lawns from Liberty of London are available at fabric stores in the US. You might have to hunt a bit, and cetrainly JoAnns doesn't carry them. Look for independent fashion fabric stores or quilt shops. Lawn is a very fine, light cotton. The Tana lawns are mostly small-scale floral prints, with a few medium scale and a few stripes. There is a nice line of cotton lawn prints made in Brazil that you can find at quilt shops. These are quite a bit less expensive, and beautiful, too. Kim -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Kimiko Small Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 9:56 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] shopping in London At 05:43 PM 11/3/2004 +0000, you wrote: >And there is nothing like Liberty lawn anywhere else that I know of, >unless imported. Hi Suzi, Do you know if the Liberty store has an online means of ordering? I have never, ever had the pleasure of seeing anything remotely known as "lawn", and would love to be able to order some. Thanks, Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 4 00:37:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA45bPrP025584 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 00:37:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA45aj4a023153 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 3 Nov 2004 22:36:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA45aRq4042168; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 22:36:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m20.mx.aol.com (imo-m20.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA45aQq4042122 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 22:36:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Appin1@aol.com) Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.1a3.2b698db3 (2168) for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 00:36:19 -0500 (EST) From: Appin1@aol.com Message-ID: <1a3.2b698db3.2ebb19d1@aol.com> Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 00:36:17 EST To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5000 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Talk on costume conservation X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id iA45bPrP025584 Status: RO Thought people in the Washington DC area might be interested in this: National Museum of Women in the Arts: A Costume Conservator as Detective Monday, Nov. 8 Using case studies such as the Smithsonian’s First Ladies Collection, guest lecturer Polly Wilman describes the role of costume conservators in discovering the origin and developments of clothing. 7 p.m.; $8 general; $5 students, free for NMWA members; reservations suggested – call 202.783.7370 or _reservations@nmwa.org_ (mailto:reservations@nmwa.org) Kathleen Norvell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 4 00:43:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA45huYl025608 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 00:43:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA45g64a023531 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 3 Nov 2004 22:42:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA45g3q4044813; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 22:42:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp809.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp809.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.199]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id iA45bAq4042483 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 22:37:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp809.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Nov 2004 05:37:05 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041104053403.0145b678@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 05:37:04 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fw: Eleonora's gown In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20041103200056.02418c60@64.87.54.245> References: <002001c4c20e$dccbc910$1902a8c0@duncan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 20:04 03/11/2004 -0800, you wrote: >At 08:37 PM 11/3/2004 -0500, you wrote: >> > >>http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/SCA/Paintings/EleanoraBurialDress-300.jpg > > >This one really shows clearly the shaping of the skirt segments, including >the triangular pieces. And I love the skirt and bodice embellishments. >Wow, what a dress. Even in as bad a shape as this one is, the beauty is >still apparant. > >Kimiko This gown is patterned in Janet Arnold's "Patterns of Fashion 1560-1660". There are drawings of the conjectured look of the gown. Other grave clothes are also patterned. Janet worked with Dr, Mary Westerman Bulgarella from the Pitti Palace in order to take the patterns. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 4 00:51:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA45pJIb025659 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 00:51:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA45oi4a024252 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 3 Nov 2004 22:50:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA45odq4048828; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 22:50:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop2b.ripco.com (root@pop2b.ripco.com [209.100.227.27]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA45obq4048801 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 22:50:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zski@ripco.com) Received: from ripco.com (tcr21.dynip.ripco.net [209.100.226.21]) by pop2b.ripco.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA45oU86014739 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 23:50:32 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <4189C318.5060908@ripco.com> Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 23:50:16 -0600 From: zski User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <200411040540.iA45drq6043949@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: <200411040540.iA45drq6043949@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Source for vintage-inspired clothes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have to say that while I like the look of a lot of things from Newport News, I have not been satisfied with the quality of their merchandise. I had a couple of things fall apart after only a few wearings, wven when hand-washed and treated gently. Just my 3.1415 cents. Wendy Z Chicago, IL _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 4 01:04:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA464EgZ025715 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 01:04:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA463b4a025086 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 3 Nov 2004 23:03:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA463Xq4054476; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 23:03:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web81008.mail.yahoo.com (web81008.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.37.153]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id iA463Tq4054395 for ; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 23:03:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from altablue@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20041104060324.58028.qmail@web81008.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.122.216.235] by web81008.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 03 Nov 2004 22:03:24 PST Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 22:03:24 -0800 (PST) From: Heather Smart To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: trick or treat X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi there, I am joining in a little late. Halloween as a kid was always really, really big. When I got my own place, I was sad to find that the new neighborhood did not come out to play. We had 10 kids to the door and we considered ourselves lucky. Two and a half years ago I bought a new house in a newly build neighborhood. The first Halloween I wanted to get to know some of the neighbors, so I put out a table with coffee and brownies for the parents. Once the word got out that there was hot coffee at my house ready to go in paper cups, they flocked to my house. I met so many of my neighbors. There were about 80 kids. BTW my mom came over to hand out candy. She looks a great deal like Mrs. (Santa) Claus. One little kid looked at her and said, "Hey look! It is Pumpkin Claus!" We prepared the coffee again last year and were hit with a rainstorm. We had about 30 kids. The parents who braved the rain were counting on the coffee. This year--at the recommendation of a friend--I added hot apple cider. We had a line of 10-15 people waiting for it and the line never really died down. I will need to double the amount next year. It works out that if you stand in my yard (I am at the end of the street) you can see all the way to culdesac at the other end of the street. The parents of the older kids choose to hang out in my yard and chat with "Pumpkin Claus" and drink cider. They could see the kids all the way down and all the way back. There were about 120 kids. Other parents offered to help with coffee and goodies next year. I now feel really at home here! Heather aka Holland Brea, CA _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 4 04:46:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA49kpU1009236 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 04:46:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA49ds4a014508 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 4 Nov 2004 02:39:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA49dgq4043983; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 02:39:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA49dcq4043881 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 02:39:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.148.218]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id iA49dMg4022355 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 20:39:23 +1100 Message-ID: <002a01c4c252$01231640$da94d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002001c4c20e$dccbc910$1902a8c0@duncan> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fw: Eleonora's gown Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 20:38:08 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Anyway, if you would be so kind as to post to the list that these > are the URLs > > for the images of the Eleanor of Toledo burial dress. > http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/SCA/Paintings/EleanoraBurialDress-150.jpg > > > http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/SCA/Paintings/EleanoraBurialDress-300.jpg > > > http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/SCA/Paintings/EleanoraBurialDress-72.jpg > > With regards, > > kate Wow, you can really see how fragmented it is, it must have taken an absolute genius to reconstruct that! I know Janet Arnold was involved, but I don't know how much. Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole in OR in Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra, Australia ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 4 05:49:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA4AnT0C019222 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 05:49:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4Amf4a020697 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 4 Nov 2004 03:48:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4AmYq4072411; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 03:48:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp801.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp801.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.138]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id iA4AmUq4072355 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 03:48:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp801.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Nov 2004 10:47:36 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041104104324.0145b7c0@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 10:48:13 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fw: Eleonora's gown In-Reply-To: <002a01c4c252$01231640$da94d6cb@ewalpole> References: <002001c4c20e$dccbc910$1902a8c0@duncan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 20:38 04/11/2004 +1100, you wrote: > > Anyway, if you would be so kind as to post to the list that these > > are the URLs > > > for the images of the Eleanor of Toledo burial dress. > > http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/SCA/Paintings/EleanoraBurialDress-150.jpg > > > > > http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/SCA/Paintings/EleanoraBurialDress-300.jpg > > > > > http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/SCA/Paintings/EleanoraBurialDress-72.jpg > > > > With regards, > > > > kate > >Wow, you can really see how fragmented it is, it must have taken an absolute >genius to reconstruct that! I know Janet Arnold was involved, but I don't >know how much. Janet worked on the gown before 1983/4. I have a postcard of Eleonora on which Janet writes "Had a wonderful time in Italy and am going back to Florence in October to give a paper on what I did at the conference for the opening of the Pitti Palace Costume Collection." I certainly saw slides of the grave clothes that Janet took during conservation, but I cannot remember whether it was when I was at college or a later lecture. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 4 05:52:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA4Aqr8e019270 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 05:52:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4AqM4a020909 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 4 Nov 2004 03:52:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4AqLq4074089; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 03:52:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.200]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id iA4AqHq4074011 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 03:52:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Nov 2004 10:52:11 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041104105011.0145b968@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 10:52:48 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] shopping in London In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20041103195431.04090048@64.87.54.245> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20041103173309.0145af38@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> <418912A7.3020306@reddawn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/567/Mon Nov 1 08:13:35 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 19:55 03/11/2004 -0800, you wrote: >At 05:43 PM 11/3/2004 +0000, you wrote: >>And there is nothing like Liberty lawn anywhere else that I know of, >>unless imported. > > >Hi Suzi, > >Do you know if the Liberty store has an online means of ordering? I have >never, ever had the pleasure of seeing anything remotely known as "lawn", >and would love to be able to order some. > The web address is http://www.liberty.co.uk/shopping/ but they do not appear to have lawn or fabrics listed as an option. Plain white cotton lawn, suitable for dainty underwear, can be obtained from MacCulloch and Wallis, who do mail order.http://www.macculloch-wallis.co.uk/home_mill.html Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 4 09:07:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA4E7fWU021087 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 09:07:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4E6n4a002641 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 4 Nov 2004 07:06:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4E53q4072522; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 07:05:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4E4pq4072193 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 07:04:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be76.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.118]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 66A735EE091 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 15:04:36 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <006f01c4c277$42630960$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001a01c4c02e$070c6d20$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711><11c401c4c0ea$381384a0$0400a8c0@compaqub> <5.2.1.1.0.20041103195323.0249ca40@64.87.54.245> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Chenille Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 15:04:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Kimiko It is me who wrongly called it thread, you know english isnt my native language, it is of cause a yarn. I had my silk chenille yarn from Aurora: http://www.aurorasilk.com/shop/silk-chenille-yarn.shtml Sorry about this misleading! Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kimiko Small" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 4:53 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Chenille > At 05:39 PM 11/2/2004 +0100, you wrote: >>I also thoaght that some reenactors could use a chenille thread and >>embroider their forepart or whatever so that it looks like cut velvet. >> >>Bjarne > > > I have found chenille yarns at my local stores... but never heard of > chenille threads. Where do you get your chenille threads? > > Kimiko > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 4 09:32:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA4EWQJP021285 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 09:32:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4EVi4a004324 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 4 Nov 2004 07:31:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4EVYq4088973; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 07:31:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id iA4EVVq4088888 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 07:31:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m2.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABA2WRKKANZ6QY2 for (sender ); Thu, 4 Nov 2004 06:31:05 -0800 (PST) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCqiBP1/UFtvA5lFNb0GUR5o6DAG5DGsJVg== Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KBLNX66M; Thu, 04 Nov 2004 06:30:32 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 08:25:28 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] shopping in London Message-ID: <20041104.082528.-327531.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 5-10,12-26 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-ContentStamp: 10:5:3977252765 X-MAIL-INFO: 426ddd14d141c5b99d94c549906d4165fdadb1559040590571a06519c9f0e059d9ade05421a0f015bd0cb5742191112da1610081617111814d30d41189ededb02054453d30b920793d14397089f954e43950f905a479f9a51491d5e0d5d1c57dd0c4d5b951b9d484cd497d418410c40d7d511040059d10ada06560ed6001f071e0e96015001529bd75b5712dbd81e92471008189b13530a9d10ded20249184c4cdc47d64fd7d6485656485659154091da139a490a4f934f4ddd5a49441e9d971d91549691549212d4921 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO MacCullogh and Wallis is a great place to shop! I found it by partial accident on one trip to London and fell in love. It's an old fashioned haberdashery which means it's a little dark, a little dingy, and definitely not fashionable, but the merchandise is fantastic! I can never remember the right name so I just call it Plunkett and MacClean but Teddy always knows what I am talking about. Karen On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 10:52:48 +0000 Suzi Clarke writes: > Plain white cotton lawn, suitable for dainty underwear, can be > obtained > from MacCulloch and Wallis, who do mail > order.http://www.macculloch-wallis.co.uk/home_mill.html > > Suzi > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ________________________________________________________________ Juno Platinum $9.95. Juno SpeedBand $14.95. Sign up for Juno Today at http://www.juno.com! Look for special offers at Best Buy stores. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 4 09:45:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA4Ej1Qc021370 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 09:45:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4EiC4a005292 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 4 Nov 2004 07:44:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4Ei7q4096446; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 07:44:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.204]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id iA4Ei3q4096325 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 07:44:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Nov 2004 14:43:58 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041104144047.01520c18@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 14:44:34 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] shopping in London In-Reply-To: <20041104.082528.-327531.0.Seamstrix@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:25 04/11/2004 -0600, you wrote: >MacCullogh and Wallis is a great place to shop! I found it by partial >accident on one trip to London and fell in love. It's an old fashioned >haberdashery which means it's a little dark, a little dingy, and >definitely not fashionable, but the merchandise is fantastic! I can never >remember the right name so I just call it Plunkett and MacClean but Teddy >always knows what I am talking about. Update on MacCulloch and Wallis!! No longer quite so dark and dingy, and very up-market nowadays, at least in the haberdashery department. Loads of braids, glitter and stuff for customizing jeans, as well as all the old favourites. Downstairs the fabric department is still a bit dark, but brightened by all the glorious fabrics. And the staff are always patient, and so knowledgeable - it's a real pleasure to shop there. Suzi (who's going on Tuesday again, for a snoop around!!) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 4 10:05:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA4F5kOZ021538 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 10:05:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4F524a007021 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 4 Nov 2004 08:05:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4F4iq4009792; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 08:04:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4F4bq4009614 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 08:04:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 04 Nov 2004 09:04:30 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 09:04:18 -0600 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] OT: digital cameras X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, sort of OT, as I would be using it for costumeing :) I am looking to, finally, invest in a digital camera. One of the things it would be used for is close-up pics of needlework & costumes so I thought this group might have some good experience with these things :). I would like the ability to do pretty good close-ups, not interested in making any movies. Anyone have a brand/model they would recommend? Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 4 10:09:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA4F9ptI021566 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 10:09:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4F8D4a007351 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 4 Nov 2004 08:08:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4F84q4012214; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 08:08:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.204]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4F81q4012169 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 08:08:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from goddessandqueen@gmail.com) Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id c16so267501rne for ; Thu, 04 Nov 2004 07:08:01 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=ZWPYJjoO+iXcn9FEo9GTwenywtWqgNTuWoeqmqw/cX3YUOnLFf+HMfQV3ogwy8QAtjhmuIVGvet2G1TNigmkc/jp5mSnOw9Ft2AdCKVx5SbYbTNr8AzE+CqKp0QcIyyX7X1GRdOK5SB5cvqQGkxyyGNfxuL5A6diObCAK87yUzs= Received: by 10.38.218.39 with SMTP id q39mr613589rng; Thu, 04 Nov 2004 07:08:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.38.81.72 with HTTP; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 07:08:01 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <6107d9c1041104070842de3420@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 09:08:01 -0600 From: pixel To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <6107d9c10410261113169c261@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 References: <8CC5E9EF-2697-11D9-8A52-000393D2F36E@adelphia.net> <417DA070.7020905@in-tch.com> <6107d9c10410261113169c261@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id iA4F81q4012169 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: a medieval livery question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Found it! It's in this article: Lachaud, Frédérique, "Liveries of Robes in England c.1200-1330" English Historical Review v.111 pp. 279-98. Apparently green had a cachet in the 13th century as being an aristocratic colour. Margaret/Pixel On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:13:17 -0500, pixel wrote: > My SO remembers a reference somewhere about a medieval lord who > clothed all his retainers in green. Unfortunately he can't remember > where he read it, which is hampering my efforts to use the reference > in my current research. Does it sound familiar to anyone? > > Thanks! > > Margaret/Pixel > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 4 10:17:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA4FH683021613 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 10:17:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4FGM4a008072 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 4 Nov 2004 08:16:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4FGGq4017782; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 08:16:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m15.mx.aol.com (imo-m15.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.205]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4FGDq4017650 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 08:16:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.f.372a6286 (3940) for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 10:15:53 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 10:15:53 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: digital cameras To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5034 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Models change so fast that the one I have, now several years old, is I'm sure obsolete. It's a Sony--the model number I haven't a clue, but has surely been replaced by something newer and better. You want to look for one with a macro setting for the close ups. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 4 10:25:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA4FPLrR021685 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 10:25:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4FMu4a008657 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 4 Nov 2004 08:22:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4FMqq4022184; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 08:22:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail3.mdx.safepages.com (mail3.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4FMnq4022078 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 08:22:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail3.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 1FCF788F1D; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 15:22:43 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust175.tnt1.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.148.175]) by mail3.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 94DE088EC2 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 15:22:40 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <130901c4c282$2b3cabf0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001a01c4c02e$070c6d20$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711><11c401c4c0ea$381384a0$0400a8c0@compaqub><5.2.1.1.0.20041103195323.0249ca40@64.87.54.245> <006f01c4c277$42630960$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Chenille Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 09:22:57 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, so far I've tracked chenille down to the late 17th century (there's an extant south German vestment)... it keeps going back, so maybe if I try a bit harder I can manage the 16th! =} But I am starting to feel pretty good about using it as a reasonable substitute, especially since the modern cut velvet I've found so far looks nothing like the original, whereas some of the chenille really does from more than a foot away. -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 4 11:04:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA4G41Pv021998 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 11:04:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4G2G4a012847 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 4 Nov 2004 09:02:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4G2Cq4052451; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 09:02:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.202]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4G25q4052349 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 09:02:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from goddessandqueen@gmail.com) Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id c16so276659rne for ; Thu, 04 Nov 2004 08:01:48 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=pVxVgDLwjaoenbcshCdH+8+imcX3ZZF1SFGxDMOvf1zwFpXg7DBbxwUcqTUNQyfTZMwlGMlth1woqH8R3C1wQ0MBhs/NvfK77GMHsHdwRFsL2QXxHUCVfQKMTnYNipG9bXAdP78fhlip2ODdc6L5JZv5xFsddUUXl7OFwy06Hro= Received: by 10.38.181.31 with SMTP id d31mr628973rnf; Thu, 04 Nov 2004 08:01:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.38.81.72 with HTTP; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 08:01:46 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <6107d9c104110408012d22859e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 10:01:46 -0600 From: pixel To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: digital cameras In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Depends on how much $$ you're willing to spend. There are sites out there with good reviews of cameras: http://www.steves-digicams.com/ and http://www.dpreview.com are two that I check. I think the current high number for resolution is something like 8 megapixel. Features I would look for in a digital camera if I were buying one: 8 megapixel or higher (Film is ~25 megapixels or thereabouts) large lens aperture (this is the f number, the smaller the better) fast shutter speed capability macro capability (close-in focusing) flash can be disabled I myself have a Pentax *istD, which is an SLR and thus requires lenses. An SLR will cost more, will require you to get at least one lens, and has a steeper learning curve, but it's a lot more like a film SLR. If you like photography, they're great. If you're just looking to record data, then you probably want one of the point-and-shoot variety. Margaret/Pixel On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 09:04:18 -0600, Catherine Kinsey wrote: > Well, sort of OT, as I would be using it for costumeing :) > > I am looking to, finally, invest in a digital camera. One of the > things it would be used for is close-up pics of needlework & costumes so > I thought this group might have some good experience with these things > :). I would like the ability to do pretty good close-ups, not > interested in making any movies. Anyone have a brand/model they would > recommend? > > Catherine > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 4 11:27:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA4GRnPm022136 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 11:27:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4GQv4a016018 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 4 Nov 2004 09:26:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4GQkq4072509; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 09:26:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-03-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (ms-smtp-03-smtplb.ohiordc.rr.com [65.24.5.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4GPvq4071821 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 09:26:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ailith@neo.rr.com) Received: from ms-mss-04 ([10.24.12.17]) by ms-smtp-03-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id iA4GPrwZ016672 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 11:25:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from columbus.rr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ms-mss-04.columbus.rr.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0I6N002QGXN5HV@ms-mss-04.columbus.rr.com> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 04 Nov 2004 11:25:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.24.12.105] (Forwarded-For: [24.123.32.1]) by ms-mss-04.columbus.rr.com (mshttpd); Thu, 04 Nov 2004 11:25:53 -0500 Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 11:25:53 -0500 From: ailith@neo.rr.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: digital cameras To: Historical Costume Message-id: <17a7e9b17a65cd.17a65cd17a7e9b@columbus.rr.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: iPlanet Messenger Express 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-language: en Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The flash on mine can be disabled, but then the pictures without flash are always blurry. I've got a Samsung that my sweetie bought me for Christmas last year, so it's not too antiquated. It's a 3 megapixel, I think. kate ----- Original Message ----- From: pixel Date: Thursday, November 4, 2004 11:01 am Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: digital cameras > Depends on how much $$ you're willing to spend. There are sites out > there with good reviews of cameras: http://www.steves-digicams.com/ > and http://www.dpreview.com are two that I check. I think the current > high number for resolution is something like 8 megapixel. > > Features I would look for in a digital camera if I were buying one: > > 8 megapixel or higher (Film is ~25 megapixels or thereabouts) > large lens aperture (this is the f number, the smaller the better) > fast shutter speed capability > macro capability (close-in focusing) > flash can be disabled > > I myself have a Pentax *istD, which is an SLR and thus requires > lenses. An SLR will cost more, will require you to get at least one > lens, and has a steeper learning curve, but it's a lot more like a > film SLR. If you like photography, they're great. If you're just > looking to record data, then you probably want one of the > point-and-shoot variety. > > Margaret/Pixel > > On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 09:04:18 -0600, Catherine Kinsey > wrote: > > Well, sort of OT, as I would be using it for costumeing :) > > > > I am looking to, finally, invest in a digital camera. One of the > > things it would be used for is close-up pics of needlework & > costumes so > > I thought this group might have some good experience with these > things> :). I would like the ability to do pretty good close- > ups, not > > interested in making any movies. Anyone have a brand/model they > would> recommend? > > > > Catherine > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 4 11:36:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA4GaXDk022204 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 11:36:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4GZK4a017247 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 4 Nov 2004 09:35:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4GZIq4079735; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 09:35:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.204]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id iA4GVUq4076601 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 09:31:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Nov 2004 16:31:22 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041104162624.01516040@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 16:31:59 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: digital cameras In-Reply-To: <6107d9c104110408012d22859e@mail.gmail.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:01 04/11/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Depends on how much $$ you're willing to spend. There are sites out >there with good reviews of cameras: http://www.steves-digicams.com/ >and http://www.dpreview.com are two that I check. I think the current >high number for resolution is something like 8 megapixel. >. If you're just >looking to record data, then you probably want one of the >point-and-shoot variety. I have a Canon PowerShot A200 it is easy to handle and use, and I was the one who swore my Pentax couldn't be bettered. The Canon takes wonderful closeup photos of stitching, and is a bonus in museums when I am researching. However, it eats batteries, and if I was buying now, I would try and buy a rechargeable one. A colleague has one, and doesn't have to change batteries. It also takes even better photos than mine, I am sorry to say!! (However I don't know what it is, so that's no help!) Suzi I can send anyone who is interested a closeup by e-mail - and that's another bonus with a digital camera, isn't it?? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 4 11:36:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA4GaZ4O022207 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 11:36:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4GXP4a016928 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 4 Nov 2004 09:33:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4GXJq4078114; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 09:33:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from dukcds.cds.duke.edu (dukcds.cds.duke.edu [152.3.16.60]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4GQEq4072071 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 09:26:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from vlamb@cds.duke.edu) Received: from cds.duke.edu (dukcds.cds.duke.edu [152.3.16.60]) by dukcds.cds.duke.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id iA4G4dN09646 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 11:04:39 -0500 Message-ID: <418A5831.4090602@cds.duke.edu> Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 11:26:25 -0500 From: Vicki L Lamb Organization: Duke University User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historic Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-sonic.net-Metrics: net.indra.com 1156; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Fw: Eleonora's gown X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Jerusha, This image is wonderful! Could you possibly post (or have Kate post) the full citation for the source of this picture? Thanks so much, Trephina/Vicki >Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 20:37:30 -0500 >From: "ailith" >Subject: [h-cost] Fw: Eleonora's gown >To: "Historical Costume" >Jerusha is having problems with her email and asked that I post this >to the list: >> Anyway, if you would be so kind as to post to the list that these >> are the URLs for the images of the Eleanor of Toledo burial dress. http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/SCA/Paintings/EleanoraBurialDress-300.jpg >With regards, >kate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 4 11:44:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA4GiNDh022260 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 11:44:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4GhC4a018352 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 4 Nov 2004 09:43:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4Gh6q4085664; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 09:43:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.254.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4Gh0q4085523 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 09:43:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 16:42:44 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: RE: [h-cost] Queen Arnegunde??? To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3C6A@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Queen Arnegunde??? Thread-Index: AcTB2G4Fw6XSQvP7RgyTyy9ZLWVyPQAtLsFQ content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.20 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO RE: Queen Arnegunde??? > This is probably not what you are looking for, but I was refently give a > copy of Dossiers d'Archeologie n.297, Octobre 2004, which is on "Saint Denis > de Ste Genevieve a Suger" which has several articles on Merovingian finds. > If you can dig up a copy (probably easier to do in the UK than it will be > over here), it's worth the effort. Thanks Marc Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 4 11:59:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA4GxtJ6022388 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 11:59:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4Gx74a020209 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 4 Nov 2004 09:59:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4Gx0q4098468; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 09:59:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4Gwwq4098421 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 09:58:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) Received: from [192.168.167.40] (helo=wamui02.slb.atl.earthlink.net) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CPkwr-0001Jn-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 04 Nov 2004 11:58:57 -0500 Message-ID: <25601155.1099587537323.JavaMail.root@wamui02.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 08:58:57 -0800 (GMT-08:00) From: Chris Laning To: Historical Costume Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: OT: digital cameras X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm looking too :) For me, the key is that I'm getting awfully tired of waiting four or five days to see whether my pictures came out, or more like a week if I get them scanned (at a decent resolution) as well as printed. I think I've become spoiled by the 21st century... One thing the reviews _don't_ always mention is which cameras are best at taking indoor, low-light shots. Most people seem to be buying them for outdoor snapshots, and I gather that quite a lot of the recent models do that just fine. But usually the reviews only mention indoor shots if the camera they're discussing is particularly *bad* at them. So I'd also be interested in people's recommendations. I've been very impressed by the quality of a professional friend's 6-megapixel model, but how many megapixels I buy will depend mostly on how many I can afford, given a brand and model-series that looks good in other respects. ____________________________________________________________ 0 Chris Laning | + Davis, California ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 4 12:05:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA4H526e022428 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 12:05:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4H424a020942 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 4 Nov 2004 10:04:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4H40q4002973; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 10:04:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from alpha2.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (alpha2.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.0.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4H3vq4002921 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 10:03:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 17:03:51 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] shopping in London To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3C6C@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] shopping in London Thread-Index: AcTCjIzxTtvdIctWSLWq/rVLE2MDJQAA5TIg content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.20 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > MacCullogh and Wallis is a great place to shop! I found it by > partial accident on one trip to London and fell in love. It's > an old fashioned haberdashery which means it's a little dark, > a little dingy, and definitely not fashionable, but the > merchandise is fantastic! I can never remember the right name > so I just call it Plunkett and MacClean but Teddy always > knows what I am talking about. I do indeed... But you forgot to mention that their fabric prices are on the expensive side..... Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 4 12:07:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA4H7bhF022449 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 12:07:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4H704a021341 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 4 Nov 2004 10:07:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4H6nq4005231; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 10:06:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4H6lq5005192 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 10:06:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-52.sonic.net [209.148.114.52]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iA4H6jj1032616 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 09:06:46 -0800 Message-ID: <418A61A7.1000000@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 09:06:47 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Source for vintage-inspired clothes References: <200411040540.iA45drq6043949@net.indra.com> <4189C318.5060908@ripco.com> In-Reply-To: <4189C318.5060908@ripco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO IMO their merchandise is not couture quality, but it is as good as a lot of other RTW. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com zski wrote: > I have to say that while I like the look of a lot of things from > Newport News, I have not been satisfied with the quality of their > merchandise. I had a couple of things fall apart after only a few > wearings, wven when hand-washed and treated gently. > > Just my 3.1415 cents. > > Wendy Z > Chicago, IL > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 4 12:22:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA4HMcvl022802 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 12:22:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4HLm4a023325 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 4 Nov 2004 10:21:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4HLhq4017580; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 10:21:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-03.rdc-nyc.rr.com (ms-smtp-03-smtplb.rdc-nyc.rr.com [24.29.109.7]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4HKfq4016560 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 10:20:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from marthakelly@nyc.rr.com) Received: from Martha (24-90-83-116.nyc.rr.com [24.90.83.116]) by ms-smtp-03.rdc-nyc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id iA4HKV21015045 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 12:20:32 -0500 (EST) From: "Martha Kelly" To: Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 12:20:41 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-reply-to: <200411041631.iA4GUvq6076222@net.indra.com> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Digital camera X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm quite in love with my Canon PowerShot A70. I use it in museums all the time to take extreme close-ups of garments. I also use it in libraries to photograph books and magazines. It does has a macro setting so that you can practically touch the garment with your lens. You can set the "white balance" for different lighting conditions which helps with that nasty fluorescent color problem. You can also disable the flash - which I always do. You can use this camera as an "automatic" or totally control the settings. It's small and lightweight and uses regular AA batteries which are easy to replace. I got a HUGE memory card on sale and I can take hundreds of pictures without having to change cards. It's not for professional photographers, but for an inexpensive camera, I highly recommend it. Furthermore, may I suggest a monopod if you're working in dim lighting conditions (museums!). The one I got telescopes in to a very unobtrusive size so curators don't freak out when I arrive with it. If you want to see the kind of thing it can do, go the Simplicity web site (http://www.simplicity.com/index.cfm?page=section/civilWar/shirts6.html) and look at the Civil War Collection historic notes "original shirt with details." I had to reduce the picture size greatly for the web site, but the originals can be blown up so large you can count threads. Martha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 4 12:28:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA4HS3Zg024655 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 12:28:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4HRH4a023911 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 4 Nov 2004 10:27:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4HR7q4021967; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 10:27:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail2.mdx.safepages.com (mail2.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.17]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4HR4q4021775 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 10:27:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail2.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 0A85C1D11F7; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 17:26:55 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust175.tnt1.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.148.175]) by mail2.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id D8DAE1D11F9 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 17:26:53 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <134201c4c293$849efed0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <418912A7.3020306@reddawn.net> <5.2.1.1.0.20041103195610.023a4c10@64.87.54.245> Subject: Re: [h-cost] shopping in London Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 11:27:09 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kimiko Small" > Where are you window shopping as I want to drool, too... and why can't you > get it? Well, actually the thing I had in mind when I posted that was some of the droolworthy fabrics I keep seeing from British and especially London costumers. I've spent sooo much time over the past few months looking at every mail order source I can think of in order to find some great silk damask/brocade/lampas that I can just about recognize the design and source of any such that I see. And yet I can't find what I'm really looking for, which is a repeat that is large, but large because of the complexity of the design rather than the size of the elements. Then for fun I look at the websites of costumers, and when I get to the British ones, I see exactly the fabrics, of this sort and others, that I want--sometimes being used by less experienced, hobbyist costumers, who may not necessarily go to great lengths when shopping for fabric--but I don't recognize the source. So I make the deductive leap that they have better fabric stores that don't do mail order. =} (Also, I hear stories.) I expect it's more Europe than UK, but I've been primarily looking at English language sites. Also, some of the sources for fabric I REALLY wish I could afford (like the only seller of silk samite I've found to date) are in London. Places that might be willing to sell to you by mail, if you can make it past their extensive interview process... Maybe if I were willing to go to LA or NYC I'd be able to find the sort of thing I want, but I am not willing to set foot in either (a political thing). -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 4 12:54:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA4Hs1RY027365 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 12:54:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4HrG4a027536 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 4 Nov 2004 10:53:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4Hr8q4043773; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 10:53:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail10.mdx.safepages.com (mail10.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.33]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4Hr4q4043622 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 10:53:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail10.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 8827420A1A; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 17:53:03 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust175.tnt1.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.148.175]) by mail10.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 7C91B20982 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 17:53:02 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <135601c4c297$290fad40$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <25601155.1099587537323.JavaMail.root@wamui02.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: OT: digital cameras Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 11:53:14 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And unfortunately, megapixels don't necessarily mean quality photos; I recently got a higher megapixel camera (about twice as high as my old one), after a great deal of research, but the photo quality just isn't there. Even if I resize the image to half the size, the quality still isn't as good as my 5 or 6 year old Kodak! (Although it does have a ton more settings than my old camera, so it's possible that I just need to find the exact right settings.) My advice is to be willing to return any camera that you buy, until you find the right one. =} Next camera I get, I'm going to try to get one that can take great pictures in a dim museum with no flash and no tripod! A time delay seems to help with that--I can hold the camera pretty close to still if I'm not trying to push down the button. (That no tripod rule some museums have really annoys me...) By the way, my favorite digital camera review site is: http://www.imaging-resource.com/ which does a pretty good job of showing how cameras do under hard conditions, such as low light. -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 4 13:00:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA4I00ew027398 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 13:00:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4Hwt4a028283 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 4 Nov 2004 10:58:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4Hwmq4048498; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 10:58:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.202]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4Hwjq4048413 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 10:58:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jacquelinejbump@gmail.com) Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id q1so268545rnf for ; Thu, 04 Nov 2004 09:58:37 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=OlnHKFIxk0T7wd1tlQRue60PaTdjkIWCtvgUNrDZdwo6gXxzdfoiMzdlNYCp4JSBDqbxHetdrZFwk6V3P/I2NLLI58LoVTnqPq4g7Y0oB09JiVsO5aRZkyRoZe4kMqOCzd1WYtSiZc1Rr8b6EsfvFplZAPRjMqVAbfrrLxTcWzk= Received: by 10.38.82.61 with SMTP id f61mr449116rnb; Thu, 04 Nov 2004 09:58:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.38.14.59 with HTTP; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 09:58:37 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4c5accc804110409586fc5625@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 12:58:37 -0500 From: Jacqueline Johnson To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: OT: digital cameras In-Reply-To: <135601c4c297$290fad40$0400a8c0@compaqub> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <25601155.1099587537323.JavaMail.root@wamui02.slb.atl.earthlink.net> <135601c4c297$290fad40$0400a8c0@compaqub> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have a Minolta Dimage model that I really like a lot. My first one was also great and was an Argus that I thought was incredible. Both take nice clear pics and can be put on a tripod if needed. My links below have a few pics on them I took with my Dimage. -- ============================ Italian Ladies 2005 Calendar http://www.lulu.com/kristalori http://kristalori.com http://snipurl.com/96f1 Dress Diaries http://snipurl.com/9bir That 70's Trailer ============================ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 4 13:48:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA4ImXnx027593 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 13:48:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4Ilh4a004582 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 4 Nov 2004 11:47:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4IlIq4090272; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 11:47:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4IkWq5089661 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 11:46:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-191.sonic.net [209.148.113.191]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iA4IkT2u007669 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 10:46:29 -0800 Message-ID: <418A7905.90805@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 10:46:29 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] shopping in London References: <418912A7.3020306@reddawn.net> <5.2.1.1.0.20041103195610.023a4c10@64.87.54.245> <134201c4c293$849efed0$0400a8c0@compaqub> In-Reply-To: <134201c4c293$849efed0$0400a8c0@compaqub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Well, actually the thing I had in mind when I posted that was some of the >droolworthy fabrics I keep seeing from British and especially London >costumers. I've spent sooo much time over the past few months looking at >every mail order source I can think of in order to find some great silk >damask/brocade/lampas that I can just about recognize the design and source >of any such that I see. > So do you have the URLs or mail-order addresses of any sources other h-costume members might find useful for the damask/brocade/lampas patterns they prefer? > >Also, some of the sources for fabric I REALLY wish I could afford (like the >only seller of silk samite I've found to date) > > Hey, I just ordered a crocheted cashmere poncho from a Chinese ebay seller who translates silk as "samite," and headscarf/mufller as "wimple." Lovely looking item in the photo though, so I am hopeful. Fran Lavolta Press Two new books on 1870s and 1880s clothing! http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 4 14:22:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA4JMWj7027716 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 14:22:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4JKU4a008927 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 4 Nov 2004 12:20:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4JKNq4018730; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 12:20:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4JKJq4018639 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 12:20:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be76.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.118]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 5498747FED9 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 20:20:16 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002601c4c2a3$5b0cf490$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: digital cameras Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 20:20:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Catherine, I have had my dig.camera for 3 years now, and i have never ben disappointed of it. It can with a little click make close up pictures of very detailed things like lace and embroidery. My camera is a Sony Cyber-shot with 3.2 million pixels. It is very easy to use and very reliable. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 4:04 PM Subject: [h-cost] OT: digital cameras > Well, sort of OT, as I would be using it for costumeing :) > > I am looking to, finally, invest in a digital camera. One of the > things it would be used for is close-up pics of needlework & costumes so > I thought this group might have some good experience with these things > :). I would like the ability to do pretty good close-ups, not > interested in making any movies. Anyone have a brand/model they would > recommend? > > Catherine > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 4 14:31:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA4JVEXP027769 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 14:31:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4JUL4a009867 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 4 Nov 2004 12:30:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4JUEq4026621; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 12:30:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail11.mdx.safepages.com (mail11.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4JUBq4026509 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 12:30:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 0358CA086F; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 19:30:09 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust11.tnt2.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.178.11]) by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 639B1A0BD0 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 19:28:55 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <138d01c4c2a4$8e29ddb0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <418912A7.3020306@reddawn.net> <5.2.1.1.0.20041103195610.023a4c10@64.87.54.245><134201c4c293$849efed0$0400a8c0@compaqub> <418A7905.90805@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 13:27:45 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] silk damask (was: shopping in London) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A few that I spend hours drooling over, specifically for periodish silk damask, are: http://www.designerfabrics.ca http://store.yahoo.com/discountfabricsusa http://www.iluvfabrix.com http://www.hyenaproductions.com/ (overpriced, in my opinion, but lovely anyway) several of these sites have some of those periodish chenilles I asked about recently. There are tons of other places I look at, but they aren't sticking in my mind right now, which generally means that they only get silk damasks once in a while or they're so high priced that I rarely look at them, like Bevilacqua. http://www.luigi-bevilacqua.com/ No prices on their website now, but several years back they did list prices. From what I remember, the range was around 40 to 300 euros, with the average being around 100 euros. Maybe next time the dollar is REALLY strong... (Someone buy something from me. I wanna go spend $50/yd on some silk damask now, plz!)=} -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 4 14:34:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA4JYgbh027784 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 14:34:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4JXq4a010379 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 4 Nov 2004 12:33:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4JXqq4029540; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 12:33:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.neei.com (drake.neei.com [66.92.211.100]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4JXnq4029504 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 12:33:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladybug@neei.com) Received: by mail.neei.com (Postfix, from userid 105) id C8E9B5C589CF; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 14:33:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.neei.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8262605E515 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 14:33:47 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 14:33:47 -0500 (EST) From: "Carol E. Newby" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: digital cameras In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I am looking to, finally, invest in a digital camera. One of the > things it would be used for is close-up pics of needlework & costumes so > I thought this group might have some good experience with these things > :). I would like the ability to do pretty good close-ups, not > interested in making any movies. Anyone have a brand/model they would > recommend? I have a FujiFilm FinePix 4700 Zoom which is 4 or 5 years old. The book says it's resolution is 4.3 million pixels. I've used it for closeups of needlework and tracking steps in garment construction and I love it. While the camera has been discontinued, you can find used or refurbished models on-line. It's a small, point and shoot, optional flash, and has several photography modes including the macro function and the ability to adjust the brightness of the flash. (thanks to the list I'll have to play with these!) I pretty much leave it on auto and have been very happy with the results. The biggest downside I've found with it is that it eats batteries. But, it uses rechargable batteries and they recharge fairly quickly with a good recharger unit. Keeping multiple sets of batteries charged is a viable solution. We bought an AC adapter so that I could plug it in while I'm using it inside and that has helped a lot. We've looked at external battery packs as an option for outside shooting but haven't been able to find one with the right voltage. (need 3 volts and they seem to start at 5 volts) As you look at cameras one suggestion I would offer is to search on-line for the user manual. Many manufacturers make these available as downloadable files and they can answer a lot of questions that the marketing materials don't. Carol ~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~ Carol E. Newby Elspeth the Semstress of Dunkeld, OP ladybug@neei.com http://www.neei.com/~ladybug "Act well your part, there all honor lies." ~ William Shakespeare _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 4 14:38:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA4JcVZJ027806 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 14:38:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4Ja24a010650 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 4 Nov 2004 12:36:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4JZwq4031208; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 12:35:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m15.mx.aol.com (imo-m15.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.205]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4JY6q4029637 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 12:34:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.90.4ff257e6 (4529) for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 14:33:55 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <90.4ff257e6.2ebbde23@aol.com> Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 14:33:55 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: digital cameras To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/4/2004 2:23:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: > I am looking to, finally, invest in a digital camera. One of the > >things it would be used for is close-up pics of needlework &costumes so > >I thought this group might have some good experience with these things > Get one that is most like a 35mm camera....with lenses you can change and stuff. Mine comes with a close up feature that works very well, but if you want to get REALLY close, you might want to change lenses. And of course it needs to be able to go on a tripod. You really don't need more than 300 or so mega pixels. And the rule is the same as with film photography: try to get the best photo straight up....without later enhancement. IOW, don't depend on the computer to fix problems. Try to get it right the 1st time. I say this because it is true you can manipulate the digital image a lot....which is great for art and fun. But if your trying to make a record of something real..... The great thing about digital is you can take a million pics, look at 'em right away, and just delete the ones that aren't working. Take twice as many shots as you need...change the setting little by little to see what you can get. Sometimes the auto setting is not the best solution. Have fun! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 4 14:39:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA4JdBhT027809 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 14:39:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4JcM4a010930 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 4 Nov 2004 12:38:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4JcLq4033122; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 12:38:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.201]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4JaRq4031612 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 12:36:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jacquelinejbump@gmail.com) Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id q1so281919rnf for ; Thu, 04 Nov 2004 11:36:26 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=RRiyTRvkOryK3mGHXrB+MR3Yz0MEUzMGG3j94TIGkTS0vmD0vUrC6jXbR8p9k7we94Y8RM0Y1AbHydtw33YtKIyrTrLihnruYuujTD+qPpL2YcCjuGjulx6H2N0B0iU8Rrm0f5YWlmtQuRIFsZbuUu/PEfea+t2VTd9giz7+A6Q= Received: by 10.39.2.34 with SMTP id e34mr515578rni; Thu, 04 Nov 2004 11:36:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.38.14.59 with HTTP; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 11:36:24 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4c5accc804110411361f581754@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 14:36:24 -0500 From: Jacqueline Johnson To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] silk damask (was: shopping in London) In-Reply-To: <138d01c4c2a4$8e29ddb0$0400a8c0@compaqub> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <418912A7.3020306@reddawn.net> <5.2.1.1.0.20041103195610.023a4c10@64.87.54.245> <134201c4c293$849efed0$0400a8c0@compaqub> <418A7905.90805@lavoltapress.com> <138d01c4c2a4$8e29ddb0$0400a8c0@compaqub> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://www.luigi-bevilacqua.com/ very pricey. I have their catalog and sample swatches here someplace. Incredible fabric though. On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 13:27:45 -0600, E House wrote: > Bevilacqua. > http://www.luigi-bevilacqua.com/ No prices on their website now, but > several years back they did list prices. From what I remember, the range was > around 40 to 300 euros, with the average being around 100 euros. Maybe next > time the dollar is REALLY strong... -- ============================ Italian Ladies 2005 Calendar http://www.lulu.com/kristalori http://kristalori.com http://snipurl.com/96f1 Dress Diaries http://snipurl.com/9bir That 70's Trailer ============================ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 4 16:41:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA4LfkvQ028385 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 16:41:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4Ldu4a025254 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 4 Nov 2004 14:39:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4Ldgq4033149; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 14:39:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4LdXq5033001 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 14:39:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-73.sonic.net [209.148.113.73]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iA4LdTK6018958 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 13:39:30 -0800 Message-ID: <418AA192.3040202@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 13:39:30 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] silk damask References: <418912A7.3020306@reddawn.net> <5.2.1.1.0.20041103195610.023a4c10@64.87.54.245><134201c4c293$849efed0$0400a8c0@compaqub> <418A7905.90805@lavoltapress.com> <138d01c4c2a4$8e29ddb0$0400a8c0@compaqub> In-Reply-To: <138d01c4c2a4$8e29ddb0$0400a8c0@compaqub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've bought from www.designerfabrics.ca two or three times and been very pleased. Hadn't seen www.iluvfabrix.com before. Am going through their silks now and trying to figure out what I could use some of them for. They have some lovely ones. As for www.hyenaproductions.com, do you know any place to buy the same brocade fabrics for less? Have you tried the Silk Trading Company, http://www.silktrading.com? Their San Francisco store is absolutely jaw dropping. I did buy a nice crimson damask when I was there last. Their website isn't nearly as good as the store, but maybe they will swatch. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com E House wrote: >A few that I spend hours drooling over, specifically for periodish silk >damask, are: >http://www.designerfabrics.ca >http://store.yahoo.com/discountfabricsusa >http://www.iluvfabrix.com >http://www.hyenaproductions.com/ (overpriced, in my opinion, but lovely >anyway) >several of these sites have some of those periodish chenilles I asked about >recently. > >There are tons of other places I look at, but they aren't sticking in my >mind right now, which generally means that they only get silk damasks once >in a while or they're so high priced that I rarely look at them, like >Bevilacqua. >http://www.luigi-bevilacqua.com/ No prices on their website now, but >several years back they did list prices. From what I remember, the range was >around 40 to 300 euros, with the average being around 100 euros. Maybe next >time the dollar is REALLY strong... > >(Someone buy something from me. I wanna go spend $50/yd on some silk damask >now, plz!)=} > >-E House > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 4 16:44:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA4Lihgj028397 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 16:44:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4Lh24a025609 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 4 Nov 2004 14:43:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4Lh1q4036097; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 14:43:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4LfVq4034640 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 14:41:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gia_gavino@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.112 ([204.127.197.112]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <2004110421412401300c40dge>; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 21:41:24 +0000 Received: from [128.95.14.228] by 204.127.197.112; Thu, 04 Nov 2004 21:41:21 +0000 From: gia_gavino@comcast.net (Elena O'Tighearnaigh) To: h-costume@indra.com (Costume Historical), wyewood@wyewood.org (Wyewood), bowslairelist@yahoogroups.com (Bowslaire List), Reeds@baronyofaquaterra.org (Reeds Aquaterra) Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 21:41:21 +0000 Message-Id: <110420042141.18222.418AA201000198C60000472E2200750744010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Sep 14 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: Z2lhX2dhdmlub0Bjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] OT: Author Event - Nathaniel Philbrick: Sea of Glory (fwd) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Please forgive the cross postings but I thought there might be some folks out there that might enjoy this. -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Forwarded Message: -------------- From: Gia Gavino To: gia_gavino@comcast.net Subject: Author Event - Nathaniel Philbrick: Sea of Glory (fwd) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 21:37:08 +0000 Gia Gavino Division of Rheumatology, BB561 Box 356428 206-685-9557 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 13:20:35 -0800 (PST) From: Program on the Environment To: U.W. Graduate Program Assistants and Advisors List Subject: Author Event - Nathaniel Philbrick: Sea of Glory REMINDER -------- Nathaniel Philbrick. Sea of Glory: America's Voyage of Discovery, the U.S. Exploring Expedition, 1838-1842 Thu, November 4 3:00 p.m. 258 Mary Gates Hall Introduction by John Findlay, Chair, Department of History Refreshments In 1838, the U.S. government launched the largest discovery voyage the Western world had ever seen. Four years later, the U.S. Exploring Expedition (Ex. Ex.) returned with an astounding array of accomplishments and discoveries: 87,000 miles logged, 280 Pacific islands surveyed, 4,000 zoological specimens collected, including 2,000 new species, and the discovery of the continent of Antarctica. And yet at a human level, the project was a disaster-not only had 28 men died and 2 ships been lost, but a series of sensational courts-martial had also ensued that pitted the expedition's controversial leader, Lieutenant Charles Wilkes, against almost every officer under his command. Nathaniel Philbrick is author of the National Book Award-winning bestseller In the Heart of the Sea: The Tragedy of the Whaleship Essex. For more information, call 206.616.3310 or email poe@u.washington.edu Co-sponsored by the College of Ocean and Fishery Sciences and the School of Marine Affairs, the Department of History, and the Program on the Environment. Link to flyer: http://depts.washington.edu/poeweb/happening/flyers/philbrick.pdf The University of Washington is committed to providing access, equal opportunity and reasonable accommodation in its services, programs, activities, education and employment for individuals with disabilities. To request disability accommodation contact the Disability Services Office at least ten days in advance at: 206-543-6450/V, 206-543-6452/TTY, 206-685-7264 (FAX), or dso@u.washington.edu. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Program on the Environment 274 Mary Gates Hall, Box 352802 University of Washington Seattle, WA 98195-2802 Tel: 206.616.3310 Fax: 206.616.2465 Email: poe@u.washington.edu _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 4 16:53:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA4LrMPt028443 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 16:53:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4Lqk4a027046 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 4 Nov 2004 14:52:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4Lqeq4044667; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 14:52:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (chori.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4LqSq4044362 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 14:52:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ldownward@chori.org) X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Sophos http://raeinternet.com/mpp Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP-TLS id 1612949 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 04 Nov 2004 13:52:17 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.0.0.040405 Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 13:52:16 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Author Event - Nathaniel Philbrick: Sea of Glory From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <110420042141.18222.418AA201000198C60000472E2200750744010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-DCC-CollegeOfNewCaledonia-Metrics: net.indra.com 1189; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id iA4LqSq4044362 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I read all the way through this message getting excited -- and then found out that it was in Seattle near the last line. May I request that people writing about lectures, museum specials, sales, etc. list WHERE the event is being held either in the subject line or in the first two lines of the message? It'll save people time and disappointment. LynnD > From: Elena O'Tighearnaigh > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 21:41:21 +0000 > To: Costume Historical , Wyewood , > Bowslaire List , Reeds Aquaterra > > Subject: [h-cost] OT: Author Event - Nathaniel Philbrick: Sea of Glory (fwd) > > Please forgive the cross postings but I thought there might be some folks out > there that might enjoy this. > > -- > Slan go foill > Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri > > Emer's Needle Wares > > -------------- Forwarded Message: -------------- > From: Gia Gavino > To: gia_gavino@comcast.net > Subject: Author Event - Nathaniel Philbrick: Sea of Glory (fwd) > Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 21:37:08 +0000 > > > > Gia Gavino > Division of Rheumatology, BB561 > Box 356428 > 206-685-9557 > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 13:20:35 -0800 (PST) > From: Program on the Environment > To: U.W. Graduate Program Assistants and Advisors List > Subject: Author Event - Nathaniel Philbrick: Sea of Glory > > > REMINDER > -------- > Nathaniel Philbrick. Sea of Glory: America's Voyage of Discovery, the U.S. > Exploring Expedition, 1838-1842 > Thu, November 4 > 3:00 p.m. > 258 Mary Gates Hall > > Introduction by John Findlay, Chair, Department of History > > Refreshments > > In 1838, the U.S. government launched the largest discovery voyage the Western > world had ever seen. Four years later, the U.S. Exploring Expedition (Ex. Ex.) > returned with an astounding array of accomplishments and discoveries: 87,000 > miles logged, 280 Pacific islands surveyed, 4,000 zoological specimens > collected, including 2,000 new species, and the discovery of the continent of > Antarctica. And yet at a human level, the project was a disaster-not only had > 28 men died and 2 ships been lost, but a series of sensational courts-martial > had also ensued that pitted the expedition's controversial leader, Lieutenant > Charles Wilkes, against almost every officer under his command. > > Nathaniel Philbrick is author of the National Book Award-winning bestseller In > the Heart of the Sea: The Tragedy of the Whaleship Essex. > > For more information, call 206.616.3310 or email poe@u.washington.edu > > Co-sponsored by the College of Ocean and Fishery Sciences and the School > of Marine Affairs, the Department of History, and the Program on the > Environment. > > Link to flyer: > http://depts.washington.edu/poeweb/happening/flyers/philbrick.pdf > > The University of Washington is committed to providing access, equal > opportunity and reasonable accommodation in its services, programs, > activities, > education and employment for individuals with disabilities. To request > disability accommodation contact the Disability Services Office at least ten > days in advance at: 206-543-6450/V, 206-543-6452/TTY, 206-685-7264 (FAX), or > dso@u.washington.edu. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Program on the Environment > 274 Mary Gates Hall, Box 352802 > University of Washington > Seattle, WA 98195-2802 > Tel: 206.616.3310 > Fax: 206.616.2465 > Email: poe@u.washington.edu > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 4 17:17:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA4MHObH028553 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 17:17:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4MGd4a000119 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 4 Nov 2004 15:16:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4MGYq4064817; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 15:16:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from lsmtp.okstate.edu (lsmtp.okstate.edu [139.78.101.183]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4MGUq4064764 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 15:16:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bilescl@okstate.edu) Received: from osu-ns05.cis.okstate.edu by lsmtp.okstate.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.09A10FDD@lsmtp.okstate.edu>; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 16:16:29 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.12 February 13, 2003 From: Christina L Biles Message-ID: Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 16:16:29 -0600 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on osu-ns05/Okstate(Release 6.0.3|September 26, 2003) at 11/04/2004 04:16:29 PM, Serialize complete at 11/04/2004 04:16:29 PM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: OT: digital cameras X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO We have a Sony Cyber-shot DSC-F717, and we love it. It's not small and light, but it's worth it for the features. *9.7-48.5mm Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar lens, equivalent to a 38-190mm lens on a 35mm camera The lens on a camera makes a big difference in the quality of the photo, and a Carl Zeiss is a good quality lens. *We can add lenses. Most digital cameras won't let you screw on a lens. We have several lenses, and we find them very useful for reducing glare on glass, getting better shots of outdoor scenes, etc. Even for point & click, it helps. *5x optical zoom Digital zoom is almost worthless, IMO, but a good optical zoom is worth it's weight in gold. Optical is real zooming with a lens, digital is programming. Digital zoom crops the picture to the part you want, and then enlarges it back to size. The result is loss of quality. When you buy, look for a high optical zoom. *Adjustable apertures from 2 to 8 *Macro zoom, the ability turn off the flash, and setting for shots in darkness (museums, etc) For a good review (and more features), try: http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/F717/F71A.HTM -Christina _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 4 18:03:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA4N3Hsc028740 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 18:03:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4N2C4a006050 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 4 Nov 2004 16:02:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4N20q4002115; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 16:02:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.compassnet.com.au [203.26.180.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4N1sq5001899 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 16:01:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from glendar@compassnet.com.au) Received: from mail (root@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.10/linuxconf) with SMTP id iA4NB0Rp012847 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 10:11:00 +1100 Received: from mycomputer ([203.26.180.157]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.10/linuxconf) with ESMTP id iA4NAxLc012841 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 10:10:59 +1100 Message-ID: <02c901c4c2c2$3cea0470$0100a8c0@mycomputer> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: digital cameras Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 10:01:19 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just love my Sony Mavica digital. It's a semi-professional with 4.1 Mpix, a 34-105 lens (Carl Zeiss) , 3x optical 2x digital zoom, macro setting to 4cm and writes directly to 8cm CD. The main drawback is that it's nearly the size of a SLR camera, but the quality of the images (due mainly to the quality of the lens) is incredible compared to the pocket sized Sonys of similar Mpix. The selling point was the ability to write to CD. Takes longer than to a memory card, but when we travelled around England for a month, taking 3600 photos (after chucking the ones that didn't work at the time!), we didn't have to find somewhere to convert the memory cards to CD, or lug a laptop around with us, which made up for the price difference. It uses rechargable batteries, and we bought an extra one, but we rarely had to go to the second battery. There's a review here: www.megapixel.net/reviews/sony-cd400/cd400-review.html . There's newer versions out by now. Glenda. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 4 18:09:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA4N9rf6028768 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 18:09:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4N924a006996 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 4 Nov 2004 16:09:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4N8wq4007836; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 16:08:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4N8sq4007780 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 16:08:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 435C449289 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 15:08:53 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041104144854.00b162a0@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 14:49:21 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: digital cameras In-Reply-To: <17a7e9b17a65cd.17a65cd17a7e9b@columbus.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:25 AM 11/4/2004 -0500, you wrote: >The flash on mine can be disabled, but then the pictures without flash are >always blurry. Then you need more direct or even filtered light on the subject. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 4 18:15:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA4NF5p3028811 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 18:15:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4N9E4a007033 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 4 Nov 2004 16:09:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4N9Cq4008042; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 16:09:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4N8tq4007794 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 16:08:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBB51117FA for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 15:08:53 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041104145543.04907e08@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 15:04:23 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: digital cameras In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:04 AM 11/4/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Well, sort of OT, as I would be using it for costumeing :) > >I am looking to, finally, invest in a digital camera. One of the >things it would be used for is close-up pics of needlework & costumes so >I thought this group might have some good experience with these things >:). I would like the ability to do pretty good close-ups, not >interested in making any movies. Anyone have a brand/model they would >recommend? > >Catherine Hi Catherine, Well, I have had great results in a dark museum with our Olympus digital cameras. It even outdid my SLR film Canon Rebel in low light conditions. I use the Olympus for my everyday shoots, with closeups of the stitches coming out well using the macro function. I do however disable the flash function and use a separate overhead lights (Ott light and halogens) for taking my shots indoors. I have also gotten good shots of miniature figures for a friend. The trick is finding the right distance where the autofocus comes in clear in the preview windows. I then use Photoshop to play with the images for web use, although Paint Shop Pro is a great low end alternative program. My SLR does better shots manually in general, which is why I use it and process the film onto CDs as well for web use. I also recommend a monopod or a tripod (or both for different uses). Monopods seem to be more accepted at museums than tripods, but tripods are great for studio work. I also suggest a power cord to bypass the batteries whenever possible. My Olympus is several years old and came out before rechargeable batteries became a norm. Thankfully the power cord I bought can be used with several different types of gadgets that love to suck up batteries. hth, Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 4 18:16:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA4NGZal028819 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 18:16:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4N9N4a007063 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 4 Nov 2004 16:09:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4N9Nq4008191; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 16:09:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA4N8tq4007804 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 16:08:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3F3249289 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 15:08:54 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041104150707.023a7c78@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 15:08:41 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: OT: digital cameras In-Reply-To: <25601155.1099587537323.JavaMail.root@wamui02.slb.atl.earth link.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:58 AM 11/4/2004 -0800, you wrote: >I'm looking too :) For me, the key is that I'm getting awfully tired of >waiting four or five days to see whether my pictures came out, or more >like a week if I get them scanned (at a decent resolution) as well as >printed. I think I've become spoiled by the 21st century... I am feeling the same way, but my SLR with lenses was pricey enough, and the digital body version I can't afford right now. But I have digitals for some shots that I don't want or need in printed formats. I am just waiting for the prices to drop, as they always do. Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 4 19:11:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA50BCYp029050 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 19:11:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA50AZ4a013008 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 4 Nov 2004 17:10:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA509tq4054811; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 17:09:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA509fq4054534 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 17:09:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sewinggoddess@att.net) Received: from 204.127.135.40 ([204.127.135.40]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12) with SMTP id <2004110500093611200luhvbe>; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 00:09:36 +0000 Received: from [24.26.111.46] by 204.127.135.40; Fri, 05 Nov 2004 00:09:34 +0000 From: sewinggoddess@att.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] shopping in London Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 00:09:34 +0000 Message-Id: <110520040009.3216.418AC4BD000B11AF00000C9021602807489C9C0A0B0B0109090207990A9C@att.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 18 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: c2V3aW5nZ29kZGVzc0BhdHQubmV0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am so glad that this topic came up because I jsut got some *wonderful* news..... My Dear boyfriend may have to go to England for his job for some time in January and February... due to other plans I'd have to skip going in January if he goes, but February.. is a whole 'nother matter. I've already made *possibility* arrangements at work to enable me to tag along for the trip, if he does go in Feb.! This would mean that I'd be free to wander wherever I so desire during the day and find my way back to the hotel late at night! He would be so busy really working that he'd have no time to sightsee. Which is fine because he was actually stationed there years ago,and got to see the country, but that's another whole long story. I am really looking forward to "wandering" around London and suburbs if I do actually get to go. I"ve already figured I'd be taking a train into London....Boyfriend thinks we'd be in Sheffield. Does that sound right? I'll be so busy looking around, that I don't really have any destinations in mind other than the V & A for a day or two.... any "must see" fabric shops? My sewing interests are quite varied... from corsetry to vinyl/rubber fetish wear, Italian Renaissance,Cavalier and Elizabethan. Is there any area that the fabric shops are several on a street? Any place to see for silk embroidery floss? Wherever I end up , If I get over the! re, I"ll enjoy it immensely. I have so many interests it's impossible to try to list them all! any "regular" flea markets/jumble sales/farmer's markets/favorite Antique or thrift stores that I need to go and visit in the London area? Thanks in advance! Crissy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 4 20:16:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA51GMjT029382 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 20:16:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA51Fd4a018949 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 4 Nov 2004 18:15:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA51FMq4098623; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 18:15:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA51FIq4098564 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 18:15:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m90.in-tch.com [216.166.191.90]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id iA51DdU15675 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 18:13:39 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <418AD538.7050707@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 18:19:52 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: digital cameras References: <17a7e9b17a65cd.17a65cd17a7e9b@columbus.rr.com> In-Reply-To: <17a7e9b17a65cd.17a65cd17a7e9b@columbus.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I got a Nikon Coolpix 2 years ago, prior to my England trip. It did moderately well--my only complaint was lack of really *close* close-ups, but it has a number of settings, including one really handy one specifically for museums. It's a middle-of-the-road model vis-a-vis megapixels. --sue "yes, I want to see the individual threads" clemenger ;o) ailith@neo.rr.com wrote: > The flash on mine can be disabled, but then the pictures without > flash are always blurry. > > I've got a Samsung that my sweetie bought me for Christmas last year, > so it's not too antiquated. It's a 3 megapixel, I think. > > kate > > ----- Original Message ----- From: pixel > Date: Thursday, November 4, 2004 11:01 am Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: > digital cameras > > >> Depends on how much $$ you're willing to spend. There are sites out >> there with good reviews of cameras: >> http://www.steves-digicams.com/ and http://www.dpreview.com are two >> that I check. I think the current high number for resolution is >> something like 8 megapixel. >> >> Features I would look for in a digital camera if I were buying one: >> >> >> 8 megapixel or higher (Film is ~25 megapixels or thereabouts) large >> lens aperture (this is the f number, the smaller the better) fast >> shutter speed capability macro capability (close-in focusing) flash >> can be disabled >> >> I myself have a Pentax *istD, which is an SLR and thus requires >> lenses. An SLR will cost more, will require you to get at least one >> lens, and has a steeper learning curve, but it's a lot more like a >> film SLR. If you like photography, they're great. If you're just >> looking to record data, then you probably want one of the >> point-and-shoot variety. >> >> Margaret/Pixel >> >> On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 09:04:18 -0600, Catherine Kinsey >> wrote: >> >>> Well, sort of OT, as I would be using it for costumeing :) >>> >>> I am looking to, finally, invest in a digital camera. One of the >>> things it would be used for is close-up pics of needlework & >> >> costumes so >> >>> I thought this group might have some good experience with these >> >> things> :). I would like the ability to do pretty good close- >> ups, not >> >>> interested in making any movies. Anyone have a brand/model they >>> >> >> would> recommend? >> >>> Catherine _______________________________________________ >>> h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing >> list h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing > list h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 5 04:14:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA59EKdU021300 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 04:14:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA59Ca4a025130 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 02:12:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA598Nq4041734; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 02:09:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail2.derby.ac.uk ([193.60.149.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA598Gq4041434 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 02:08:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail2.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id iA597eH01242.; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 09:07:40 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 05 Nov 2004 09:07:40 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 09:07:10 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] shopping in London Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/572/Wed Nov 3 03:48:18 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> sewinggoddess@att.net 05/11/2004 00:09:34 >>>wrote [snip] I"ve already figured I'd be taking a train into London....Boyfriend thinks we'd be in Sheffield. Does that sound right? _______________________________________________ Sorry to disappoint you, but Sheffield is in the north of England, nowhere near London (at least by our standards!). It's a direct rail connection, but takes about 2 1/2 hours by train. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 5 04:45:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA59js7M021697 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 04:45:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA59jM4a026321 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 02:45:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA59jJq4058182; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 02:45:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA59i7q4057649 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 02:44:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3ABFCB642 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 01:44:02 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041105013439.024229b8@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 01:36:04 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: trick or treat In-Reply-To: <20041104060324.58028.qmail@web81008.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:03 PM 11/3/2004 -0800, you wrote: >Two and a half years ago I bought a new house in a newly build >neighborhood. The first Halloween I wanted to get to know some of the >neighbors, so I put out a table with coffee and brownies for the parents. >Once the word got out that there was hot coffee at my house ready to go in >paper cups, they flocked to my house. I met so many of my neighbors. There >were about 80 kids. Hi Heather, Thanks for sharing your story. I am also in a relatively new neighborhood, and I love your simple idea for getting to know the neighbors better. I will keep the coffee, brownies and hot apple cider in mind when I actually plan on a Halloween thing next year for our home. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 5 04:46:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA59kAG3021701 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 04:46:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA59ja4a026344 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 02:45:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA59jYq4058405; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 02:45:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA59i7q4057650 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 02:44:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1F85B674 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 01:44:02 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041105014125.0242da30@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 01:43:55 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] shopping in London In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20041104105011.0145b968@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20041103195431.04090048@64.87.54.245> <5.1.0.14.2.20041103173309.0145af38@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> <418912A7.3020306@reddawn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:52 AM 11/4/2004 +0000, you wrote: >The web address is http://www.liberty.co.uk/shopping/ but they do not >appear to have lawn or fabrics listed as an option. > >Plain white cotton lawn, suitable for dainty underwear, can be obtained >from MacCulloch and Wallis, who do mail >order.http://www.macculloch-wallis.co.uk/home_mill.html > >Suzi Hi Suzi, Thanks for sharing the links. However, both appear... unfinished? And the M-W home page speaks of a 2002 catalog, and none of the listed items are linked to anything, so I am thinking they have ignored the internet at this site. But thanks again, anyways. Hopefully they will do more online in time. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 5 04:46:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA59ksGS021706 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 04:46:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA59jr4a026391 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 02:45:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA59jpq4058627; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 02:45:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA59i7q4057646 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 02:44:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C03BB5F9 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 01:44:00 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041105012739.02410598@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 01:28:52 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] silk damask (was: shopping in London) In-Reply-To: <138d01c4c2a4$8e29ddb0$0400a8c0@compaqub> References: <418912A7.3020306@reddawn.net> <5.2.1.1.0.20041103195610.023a4c10@64.87.54.245> <134201c4c293$849efed0$0400a8c0@compaqub> <418A7905.90805@lavoltapress.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 01:27 PM 11/4/2004 -0600, you wrote: >A few that I spend hours drooling over, specifically for periodish silk >damask, are: Thanks so much for sharing the drool worthy links. I have now spent too much time drooling, and my desk is now sopping wet. ;-) But the links have provided me with more fodder for my fantasy folder... those places I want to buy from when I finally have real money to spend on costumes. Thanks again, Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 5 04:50:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA59o5tY021719 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 04:50:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA59iV4a026279 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 02:44:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA59i9q4057695; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 02:44:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA59i7q4057648 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 02:44:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DB4EB627 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 01:44:01 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041105013300.0241a1f0@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 01:33:56 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: RE: [h-cost] shopping in London In-Reply-To: <000001c4c225$4ff0b4d0$6501a8c0@kimathlon> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20041103195431.04090048@64.87.54.245> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks Kim, I will have to check my one and only quilt store and see what kinds of lawn they carry. That sounds funny. Kimiko At 10:18 PM 11/3/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Kimiko-- > >The Tana Lawns from Liberty of London are available at fabric stores in >the US. You might have to hunt a bit, and cetrainly JoAnns doesn't carry >them. Look for independent fashion fabric stores or quilt shops. > >Lawn is a very fine, light cotton. The Tana lawns are mostly small-scale >floral prints, with a few medium scale and a few stripes. > >There is a nice line of cotton lawn prints made in Brazil that you can >find at quilt shops. These are quite a bit less expensive, and >beautiful, too. > >Kim Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 5 04:56:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA59ufLN021749 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 04:56:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA59k64a026439 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 02:46:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA59k5q4058880; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 02:46:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA59i7q4057647 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 02:44:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21D28B61D for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 01:44:01 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041105013024.00b16778@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 01:32:52 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fw: Eleonora's gown In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20041104053403.0145b678@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20041103200056.02418c60@64.87.54.245> <002001c4c20e$dccbc910$1902a8c0@duncan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 05:37 AM 11/4/2004 +0000, you wrote: >This gown is patterned in Janet Arnold's "Patterns of Fashion 1560-1660". >There are drawings of the conjectured look of the gown. Other grave >clothes are also patterned. Janet worked with Dr, Mary Westerman >Bulgarella from the Pitti Palace in order to take the patterns. > >Suzi I have the book and have looked at the pattern, but seeing the garment remnants as a whole is just a different perspective on the garments themselves. It's one thing to see the line drawn patterns, and a whole other thing to see the garments, especially that trim. Janet Arnold was excellent at reproducing the trim pattern, but to see it... I was blown away. I know, so simple, yet today we don't see anything that lovely in modern garments... and that's another story that I know we've all hashed time and again. Thanks for sharing, Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 5 04:58:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA59wnkl021758 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 04:58:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA59wH4a028107 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 02:58:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA59wDq4068494; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 02:58:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.196]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id iA59w9q4068317 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 02:58:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Nov 2004 09:57:54 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041105095433.0145c7a8@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 09:58:33 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fw: Eleonora's gown In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20041105013024.00b16778@64.87.54.245> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20041104053403.0145b678@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> <5.2.1.1.0.20041103200056.02418c60@64.87.54.245> <002001c4c20e$dccbc910$1902a8c0@duncan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 01:32 05/11/2004 -0800, you wrote: >At 05:37 AM 11/4/2004 +0000, you wrote: >>This gown is patterned in Janet Arnold's "Patterns of Fashion 1560-1660". >>There are drawings of the conjectured look of the gown. Other grave >>clothes are also patterned. Janet worked with Dr, Mary Westerman >>Bulgarella from the Pitti Palace in order to take the patterns. >> >>Suzi > > >I have the book and have looked at the pattern, but seeing the garment >remnants as a whole is just a different perspective on the garments >themselves. It's one thing to see the line drawn patterns, and a whole >other thing to see the garments, especially that trim. Janet Arnold was >excellent at reproducing the trim pattern, but to see it... I was blown >away. I know, so simple, yet today we don't see anything that lovely in >modern garments... and that's another story that I know we've all hashed >time and again. I do so agree - my note was more for those who haven't got the book, or didn't know there was a pattern. I know that the research has continued, and I keep promising myself a trip to Florence to meet Dr. Bulgarella again, and hopefully get shown "things" but domestic stuff like fallen roof tiles, broken windows etc. somehow always seem to get in the way at the wrong time!! A lottery win would be nice so I could go shopping for silk damask at the same time!! Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 5 05:02:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA5A2bpU021772 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 05:02:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5A1v4a028281 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 03:01:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5A1sq4070228; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 03:01:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp801.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp801.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.138]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id iA5A1oq4070144 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 03:01:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp801.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Nov 2004 10:01:45 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041105095943.0155de58@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 10:01:37 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] shopping in London - now MacCulloch's catalogue? In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20041105014125.0242da30@64.87.54.245> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20041104105011.0145b968@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> <5.2.1.1.0.20041103195431.04090048@64.87.54.245> <5.1.0.14.2.20041103173309.0145af38@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> <418912A7.3020306@reddawn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 01:43 05/11/2004 -0800, you wrote: >At 10:52 AM 11/4/2004 +0000, you wrote: >>The web address is http://www.liberty.co.uk/shopping/ but they do not >>appear to have lawn or fabrics listed as an option. >> >>Plain white cotton lawn, suitable for dainty underwear, can be obtained >>from MacCulloch and Wallis, who do mail >>order.http://www.macculloch-wallis.co.uk/home_mill.html >> >>Suzi > > >Hi Suzi, > >Thanks for sharing the links. However, both appear... unfinished? And the >M-W home page speaks of a 2002 catalog, and none of the listed items are >linked to anything, so I am thinking they have ignored the internet at >this site. > >But thanks again, anyways. Hopefully they will do more online in time. If anyone wants a catalogue from MacCulloch's, I will be there next week, and can ask for details - there is a new one out right now - I got mine a couple of weeks ago. I can mail small samples of their lawn if anyone wants to mail me off list. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 5 05:21:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA5ALk8a022190 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 05:21:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5AL94a029914 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 03:21:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5AKwq4078783; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 03:20:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.141]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id iA5AKuq4078714 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 03:20:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Nov 2004 10:20:50 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041105100244.01559d48@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 10:21:17 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] shopping in London In-Reply-To: <110520040009.3216.418AC4BD000B11AF00000C9021602807489C9C0A 0B0B0109090207990A9C@att.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > This would mean that I'd be free to wander wherever I so desire > during the day and find my way back to the hotel late at night! He would > be so busy really working that he'd have no time to sightsee. Which is > fine because he was actually stationed there years ago,and got to see the > country, but that's another whole long story. I am really looking > forward to "wandering" around London and suburbs if I do actually get to > go. I"ve already figured I'd be taking a train into London....Boyfriend > thinks we'd be in Sheffield. Does that sound right? You will find that in order to get to London in time to do all that you want, you will have to leave at the crack of dawn, and share with hundreds of commuters in all likelihood. > I'll be so busy looking around, that I don't really have any > destinations in mind other than the V & A for a day or two.... any "must > see" fabric shops? My sewing interests are quite varied... from corsetry > to vinyl/rubber fetish wear, Italian Renaissance,Cavalier and > Elizabethan. Is there any area that the fabric shops are several on a > street? If you do manage to make it, "Berwick Street" is where I go most of the time. There are 5 fabric shops, one tailoring fabric shop, and one haberdashery shop all either on the street or just to the side. > any "regular" flea markets/jumble sales/farmer's markets/favorite > Antique or thrift stores that I need to go and visit in the London area? There are lots of markets in London of all kinds. No Farmers' Markets within easy reach of the train station as far as I know. Portobello Road, (antiques and rubbish) Spitalfields, (mixed) Brick Lane (more fabric, mostly Indian/African), Alfie's Antique Market in Islington, many more - I don't visit any except Brick Lane as they are all expensive. Shepherds Bush has a good reputation, although again I have not been there. Southall, full of Indian fabrics, and a wonderful shop Called Rainbow Textiles for glamorous beaded stuff, mainly sourced from India and Pakistan, but not all ethnic in style. Jumble sales and "charity" shops - our version of thrift shops - are mostly in the suburbs, and jumble sales are also usually there too, along with boot sales. The sales are usually at weekends, and at least an hour from the centre by car, as the boot sales at least are often held in a farmer's field somewhere, and it is usually raining, and they have always just sold the thing you were looking for. I have a love/hate relationship with boot sales!! A boot sale, by the way, is where people take their cars and sell their own goods from the boot - trunk - of the car. Sorry I can't help with fetish stuff, although if you are in Berwick Street, you will see plenty of shops around there that may be of use to you. Hope that helps Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 5 08:25:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA5DPGvQ029775 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 08:25:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5DOR4a027928 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 06:24:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5DOFq4068523; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 06:24:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5DNuq4068366 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 06:24:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.13) id AEDA11EC0066; Fri, 05 Nov 2004 08:23:38 -0500 Received: from 209.131.81.111 ([209.131.81.111] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 5 Nov 04 13:23:37 -0000 Message-ID: <000701c4c33a$b09830e0$6f5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.0.14.2.20041105100244.01559d48@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] shopping in London Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 08:23:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0445-1, 11/03/2004), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I would be willing, so just how do we do this? I assume you will need to have the books in hand; when will they be returned to me? Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzi Clarke" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 5:21 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] shopping in London > > > > > This would mean that I'd be free to wander wherever I so desire > > during the day and find my way back to the hotel late at night! He would > > be so busy really working that he'd have no time to sightsee. Which is > > fine because he was actually stationed there years ago,and got to see the > > country, but that's another whole long story. I am really looking > > forward to "wandering" around London and suburbs if I do actually get to > > go. I"ve already figured I'd be taking a train into London....Boyfriend > > thinks we'd be in Sheffield. Does that sound right? > > > You will find that in order to get to London in time to do all that you > want, you will have to leave at the crack of dawn, and share with hundreds > of commuters in all likelihood. > > > I'll be so busy looking around, that I don't really have any > > destinations in mind other than the V & A for a day or two.... any "must > > see" fabric shops? My sewing interests are quite varied... from corsetry > > to vinyl/rubber fetish wear, Italian Renaissance,Cavalier and > > Elizabethan. Is there any area that the fabric shops are several on a > > street? > > If you do manage to make it, "Berwick Street" is where I go most of the > time. There are 5 fabric shops, one tailoring fabric shop, and one > haberdashery shop all either on the street or just to the side. > > > > any "regular" flea markets/jumble sales/farmer's markets/favorite > > Antique or thrift stores that I need to go and visit in the London area? > > There are lots of markets in London of all kinds. No Farmers' Markets > within easy reach of the train station as far as I know. Portobello Road, > (antiques and rubbish) Spitalfields, (mixed) Brick Lane (more fabric, > mostly Indian/African), Alfie's Antique Market in Islington, many more - I > don't visit any except Brick Lane as they are all expensive. Shepherds Bush > has a good reputation, although again I have not been there. Southall, full > of Indian fabrics, and a wonderful shop Called Rainbow Textiles for > glamorous beaded stuff, mainly sourced from India and Pakistan, but not all > ethnic in style. > > Jumble sales and "charity" shops - our version of thrift shops - are mostly > in the suburbs, and jumble sales are also usually there too, along with > boot sales. The sales are usually at weekends, and at least an hour from > the centre by car, as the boot sales at least are often held in a farmer's > field somewhere, and it is usually raining, and they have always just sold > the thing you were looking for. I have a love/hate relationship with boot > sales!! A boot sale, by the way, is where people take their cars and sell > their own goods from the boot - trunk - of the car. > > Sorry I can't help with fetish stuff, although if you are in Berwick > Street, you will see plenty of shops around there that may be of use to you. > > Hope that helps > > Suzi > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 5 08:33:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA5DX9VP029926 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 08:33:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5DWH4a028490 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 06:32:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5DWCq4072127; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 06:32:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5DVRq4071688 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 06:31:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.13) id A0A613180094; Fri, 05 Nov 2004 08:31:18 -0500 Received: from 209.131.81.111 ([209.131.81.111] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 5 Nov 04 13:31:17 -0000 Message-ID: <002d01c4c33b$bed91100$6f5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200411040540.iA45drq6043949@net.indra.com><4189C318.5060908@ripco.com> <418A61A7.1000000@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Source for vintage-inspired clothes Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 08:31:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0445-1, 11/03/2004), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And I find that the catalogue descriptions are truthful re content. You will get what you thought you were ordering. Got a wonderful pair of paisley brocade shoes recently. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavolta Press" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 12:06 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Source for vintage-inspired clothes > IMO their merchandise is not couture quality, but it is as good as a lot > of other RTW. > > Fran > Lavolta Press > http://www.lavoltapress.com > > zski wrote: > > > I have to say that while I like the look of a lot of things from > > Newport News, I have not been satisfied with the quality of their > > merchandise. I had a couple of things fall apart after only a few > > wearings, wven when hand-washed and treated gently. > > > > Just my 3.1415 cents. > > > > Wendy Z > > Chicago, IL > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 5 08:38:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA5DcL2w029955 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 08:38:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5Dbf4a029754 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 06:37:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5Dbbq4076432; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 06:37:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:kGA/nC5iipjur51/H3WjElbGu1UBUSNt@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5DbZq4076410 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 06:37:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from [209.249.180.130] (pool180-130.patriot.net [209.249.180.130]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with ESMTP id iA5DbVsc010002 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 08:37:34 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000701c4c33a$b09830e0$6f5183d1@rmitchellras> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20041105100244.01559d48@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> <000701c4c33a$b09830e0$6f5183d1@rmitchellras> Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 20:38:08 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Subject: Re: [h-cost] shopping in London Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >I"ve already figured I'd be taking a train into London....Boyfriend > > thinks we'd be in Sheffield. Does that sound right? Are you saying you'll be in Sheffield and taking day trips to London? It's a bit of distance, 3 hours by train ad 4 hours by coach, one way. The coach is a LOT cheaper. Day trips from Sheffield would be more like Nottingham, Leeds, Manchester, etc. Leeds has the Armories Museum. Platt Hall, the costume museum in Manchester, is closed from what I hear, but still possible for research appointments. I hear the Nottingham costume museum is also closed, but Nottingham is still worth a visit. They do have a lace museum. -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 5 09:06:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA5E5xio030117 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 09:06:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5E4E4a004977 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 07:04:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5E49q4089955; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 07:04:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.mc.surewest.net (smtp1.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.50]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id iA5E46q4089930 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 07:04:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-13803); Fri, 05 Nov 2004 06:00:10 -0800 Received: from unknown (64.30.124.24) by smtp1.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Fri, 05 Nov 2004 06:00:08 -0800 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20041105060007.00bcfd20@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 06:03:24 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan Jurancich Mime-Version: 1.0 X-TST: smtp1 SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=64.30.124.24 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Roman cosmetics found in south London X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I saw this article on BBC news. It uses tin oxide (non-toxic) rather than a lead oxide (toxic) to give a white tone to the skin. ** Roman cosmetic secrets revealed ** A 1,800-year-old sealed pot of ointment found in London last year was most probably a cosmetic foundation, say scientists. < http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/fr/-/2/hi/science/nature/3978775.stm > Now I wish they would publish the formula . Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 5 09:16:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA5EGqoV030207 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 09:16:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5EGD4a007262 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 07:16:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5EG8q4097064; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 07:16:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.254.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5EG2q4097011 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 07:16:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 14:15:43 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] shopping in London To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F401902EFC8@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] shopping in London Thread-Index: AcTDPClPm4cHjYtCRwGeh8eZbJO9qQABMk6w content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.20 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I"ve already figured I'd be taking a train into > London....Boyfriend thinks we'd be in Sheffield. Does that > sound right? Sounds right - you'd need to get the train into London - any other form of transport would take too long and not make the trip worth while. Book the tickets in advance if you can, they're much cheaper that way (thetrainline.com is good for advance tickets) If you want to do that you can have the tickets sent to my place and I can post them on to you or post them to the hotel so you get them when you arrive.... Teddy > I'll be so busy looking around, that I don't > really have any destinations in mind other than the V & A for > a day or two.... any "must see" fabric shops? My sewing > interests are quite varied... from corsetry to vinyl/rubber > fetish wear, Italian Renaissance,Cavalier and Elizabethan. > Is there any area that the fabric shops are several on a > street? Berwick Street (Off Oxford Street in central London) has several shops stocked with droolworthy silks, and is witihin a shoert walk of McCulloch and Wallis, another place to drool over not only fabrics but also trims and haberdashery. > any "regular" flea markets/jumble sales/farmer's > markets/favorite Antique or thrift stores that I need to go > and visit in the London area? Walthamstow nmarket (farthest north stop on the Victoria - light blue - underground line) is a favourite haunt of mine for inexpensive fabrics, that's best on a Thursday or a Saturday... If I'm around on a Saturday that coinsides with your trip I could act as Native Guide... Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 5 09:23:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA5ENNbd030242 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 09:23:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5EMB4a008655 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 07:22:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5EM8q4000467; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 07:22:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m15.mx.aol.com (imo-m15.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.205]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5EJAq4098564 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 07:19:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Chindora@aol.com) Received: from Chindora@aol.com by imo-m15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.83.19e7fe95 (4418) for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 09:19:02 -0500 (EST) From: Chindora@aol.com Message-ID: <83.19e7fe95.2ebce5d5@aol.com> Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 09:19:01 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman cosmetics found in south London To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5000 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is so cool. Thanks to everyone who finds neat things and posts them here for all of us to pore over and enjoy. :) Kimberley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 5 09:36:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA5EaLgN030374 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 09:36:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5EYh4a011309 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 07:34:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5EYZq4007426; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 07:34:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.116]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5EYPq4007285 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 07:34:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sewinggoddess@att.net) Received: from 204.127.135.58 ([204.127.135.58]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12) with SMTP id <2004110514341911200lu88te>; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 14:34:19 +0000 Received: from [24.26.111.46] by 204.127.135.58; Fri, 05 Nov 2004 14:34:18 +0000 From: sewinggoddess@att.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] shopping in London Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 14:34:18 +0000 Message-Id: <110520041434.20447.418B8F6A00094E3000004FDF21602810609C9C0A0B0B0109090207990A9C@att.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 18 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: c2V3aW5nZ29kZGVzc0BhdHQubmV0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oooh.. it didn't look all that far on the map.. But now that I know know better I will rethink this. I'll definitely make Berwick street a destination when I do go in to town....... and then side trips everywhere. Nottingham would be wonderful! Leeds I've heard a lot about there. And I'm sure I can get into some trouble in Sheffield as well... How late in the evening do the trains run? Do they all stop at an early hour like 7 or do they go until 10-11pm or so? the thing is , i've never been to England, and at this point even getting into a *local* grocery store there would be a grand experience to see and get some of the drinks that were mentioned here before. A friend also asked me already if I go to get some sweetened condensed milk for her. Here we sell it in a can, not a squeeze tube. Much less convenient. Coach? Please excuse my misunderstanding ..... is that more like a bus or a wagon with horses? Thaks so much everybody! I really appreciate this! Crissy -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Carol Kocian > > >I"ve already figured I'd be taking a train into London....Boyfriend > > > thinks we'd be in Sheffield. Does that sound right? > > Are you saying you'll be in Sheffield and taking day trips to > London? It's a bit of distance, 3 hours by train ad 4 hours by > coach, one way. The coach is a LOT cheaper. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 5 09:38:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA5Ec1rP030384 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 09:38:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5EbX4a011936 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 07:37:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5EbXq4009022; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 07:37:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5EaZq4008475 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 07:36:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 05 Nov 2004 08:36:28 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 08:36:15 -0600 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Thanks! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks to everyone who shared their experiences and advise on digital cameras. I feel much more prepared to go out and shop for one, and then be able to use it :). It is also nice to know that most of them seem to be holding up so well, I didn't want to have to get a new one every other year or so. Thanks again, Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 5 09:43:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA5EhpS4030408 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 09:43:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5Eh04a013153 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 07:43:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5Eguq4012050; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 07:42:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from oldntserver.stoneage.mglarc.com ([212.17.54.27]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5Egnq4011781 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 07:42:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lstrid@mglarc.com) Received: by rfc1918.space.should.not.be.used.on.publicips with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) id ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 14:42:33 -0000 Message-ID: <87A506E53AFF4C4CB2C565044BA209E7C10B3E@rfc1918.space.should.not.be.used.on.publicips> From: Lena Strid To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Roman cosmetics found in south London Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 14:42:32 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -----Original Message----- From: Joan Jurancich [mailto:joanmj@surewest.net] > ** Roman cosmetic secrets revealed ** > A 1,800-year-old sealed pot of ointment found in London last year was most > probably a cosmetic foundation, say scientists. > < http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/fr/-/2/hi/science/nature/3978775.stm > > > Now I wish they would publish the formula . Well, you could always contact Museum of London and ask... /Lena ================================================= Margaret Gowen & Co. Ltd. Archaeological Consultants & Project Managers 2 Killiney View Tel: 01-2300433 Albert Road Lower Fax: 01-2300865 Glenageary e-mail: archaeology@mglarc.com Co. Dublin website: http://www.mglarc.com ================================================= CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email is private and confidential and may contain legally privileged information. If you are not named above as an addressee it may be unlawful for you to read, copy, distribute, disclose or otherwise use the information in this email. If you are not the intended recipient of this email please contact our systems administrator. Thank you. NOTE Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company or its associated companies unless otherwise specifically stated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 5 09:49:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA5EnXE9030470 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 09:49:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5Em64a014168 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 07:48:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5Em3q4015351; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 07:48:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.115]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5ElRq4014924 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 07:47:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sewinggoddess@att.net) Received: from 204.127.135.58 ([204.127.135.58]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc11) with SMTP id <2004110514472211100ik8jge>; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 14:47:22 +0000 Received: from [24.26.111.46] by 204.127.135.58; Fri, 05 Nov 2004 14:47:20 +0000 From: sewinggoddess@att.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] shopping in London Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 14:47:20 +0000 Message-Id: <110520041447.4528.418B927800000677000011B021602810609C9C0A0B0B0109090207990A9C@att.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 18 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: c2V3aW5nZ29kZGVzc0BhdHQubmV0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks for the website Teddy, I'll go and check some of that out right now.... If you want to do that > you can have the tickets sent to my place and I can post them on to you > or post them to the hotel so you get them when you arrive.... > I'll see how much advance notice it requires and as soon as I know if and when I'm going I'll let you know the details as well.... This is going to be great! > Walthamstow nmarket (farthest north stop on the Victoria - light blue - > underground line) is a favourite haunt of mine for inexpensive fabrics, > that's best on a Thursday or a Saturday... If I'm around on a Saturday > that coinsides with your trip I could act as Native Guide... > ______________________________________ Oh Teddy, that's more than I could hope for! Thank you! and it does look like Berwick street is the destination now.... Thank you for the tube line info too. I've got a map of the tube system open right now and I'm tracing lines to find the stop.... I can only keep my fingers crossed that my boyfriend gets "sent" over there when I can get some time off from work! This is going to be a blast! Crissy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 5 13:23:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA5IMxfO031987 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 13:23:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5IL14a008475 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 11:21:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5IKhq4081669; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 11:20:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.200]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5IKbq4081581 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 11:20:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from goddessandqueen@gmail.com) Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id c16so93039rne for ; Fri, 05 Nov 2004 10:20:36 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=WeN5UOVMwFtXUvuhomGpqFN85Mh8n8qP6/cWUVUCbDTzvBXei7hQM9F2TKFTW38cWXt0eoof+662Uv6Uj1T5E/jmJW1MF6WMhgcON/9MiTqsfDWM6OgTMVgMQ34LNgrZU3Hgdba/FYE+BVvNWJ1lgv7kZwFElA36H5GDoMjv6Ik= Received: by 10.38.4.65 with SMTP id 65mr460474rnd; Fri, 05 Nov 2004 09:53:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.38.81.72 with HTTP; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 09:53:55 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <6107d9c104110509532dd6de9c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 11:53:55 -0600 From: pixel To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: digital cameras In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20041104144854.00b162a0@64.87.54.245> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <17a7e9b17a65cd.17a65cd17a7e9b@columbus.rr.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20041104144854.00b162a0@64.87.54.245> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 14:49:21 -0800, Kimiko Small wrote: > At 11:25 AM 11/4/2004 -0500, you wrote: > >The flash on mine can be disabled, but then the pictures without flash are > >always blurry. > > > Then you need more direct or even filtered light on the subject. > > Kimiko > No. Blurry means that the camera isn't held steady. A flash allows the shutter to be open a shorter amount of time--when you disable the flash, the camera has to hold the shutter open longer to compensate. Unless the camera is rock-solid steady, braced against something rigid (a wall, for instance) or attached to something that isn't moving (a tripod, a monopod, a beanbag) and the shutter is open for longer than ~125th of a second (the shutter speed with flash on most cameras) you'll get camera shake. The amount of light you need in most museums to convince the average PHD digital camera into shortening the shutter speed enough to exclude the camera shake is usually a lot more than what's available or what you can bring in without the security types getting angsty. This is why I use a fast lens and a beanbag when I have to take low-light photos, if I can't brace the camera against the glass. Not all museums or historical sites allow tripods or even monopods, but you can usually bring a small beanbag in without a problem. [This is what happens when one dates a pro. In return, I'm teaching him embroidery. ;-)] Margaret/Pixel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 5 13:25:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA5IP1Nj032013 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 13:25:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5IOQ4a008884 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 11:24:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5IONq4084577; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 11:24:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from priv-edtnes46.telusplanet.net (defout.telus.net [199.185.220.240]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5ILgq4082352 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 11:21:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from edieann@telus.net) Received: from moms ([154.5.142.106]) by priv-edtnes46.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.02 201-2131-111-104-20040324) with SMTP id <20041105182132.LIPX28563.priv-edtnes46.telusplanet.net@moms> for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 11:21:32 -0700 Message-ID: <002301c4c361$6a533ae0$6a8e059a@bc.hsia.telus.net> From: "Edith Reardon" To: "Historical Costume" References: <005301c49227$9af5db00$6a8e059a@bc.hsia.telus.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Montreal Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 10:01:03 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 7:39 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Montreal You want to go on St-Hubert street, just north of Jean-Talon. If you want buttons and similar findings, there is also a place called Rix Rax. I could find the address for you if you're interested. There are no real good fabric shops that I know of, I usually shop online, but if you hear of a good one let me know! Just to let you know I am back and just stunned by what was available. When you are just limited to 2 chain stores this is overwhelming. I knew I should've emptied my fabric stash more before I left so I could've bought more fabric. Guess what! we are planning another trip there again next year so I have a whole year to empty my sewing stash. Vancouver has nothing to offer like Montreal it's like having 10 Dressews on one street. Brin Kendall _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 5 13:29:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA5ITHQq032069 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 13:29:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5ISZ4a009393 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 11:28:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5ISVq4087809; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 11:28:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41001.mail.yahoo.com (web41001.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.92.142]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id iA5IQDq4085881 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 11:26:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from tania_gr17@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 38931 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Nov 2004 18:26:07 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=EK/U9zr8+ugc1QLCbsnriFb0huFdqhjLouwW6HXnVGykcHK8SA6CbTzsDODdb/5+DDc4oeLMRsZaA8QTLFvJdq7k14TD1iyFTlLcqZMucI8b4k7cBWXGOjlYYg4diQYXiwOnFLSrCcUrGoI2U+QrbsX/CfnFqpSn4eABJR0OJmI= ; Message-ID: <20041105182606.38929.qmail@web41001.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.79.63.35] by web41001.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 05 Nov 2004 10:26:06 PST Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 10:26:06 -0800 (PST) From: Tania Gruning To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20041105013024.00b16778@64.87.54.245> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] London trip X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If you decide to do an overnight trip to London, I would suggest that you stay at Queen Alexandra's House, It is a late victorian building that lies right next to Royal Albert Hall. It is a college dorm building that rents some free rooms for a very reasonable price. It is for women only, breakfast and dinner is included in price. Write them way ahead of your stay. I have stayed there twice and it is within walking distance to three of the largest museums in London. It is going to cost you less than taking the train from sheffield to London. Trains are horribly expensive. It cost me more getting from London to York by train than it took from Denmark to London. typical Yours in Service Tania --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com/a _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 5 13:49:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA5IntdF032305 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 13:49:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5In14a011500 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 11:49:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5Imrq4004401; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 11:48:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5Imoq5004365 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 11:48:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id iA5Ij4TA009963 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 13:45:04 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Fri, 05 Nov 2004 13:45:04 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <418BCB0E.2060109@thibault.org> Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 13:48:46 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: digital cameras References: <17a7e9b17a65cd.17a65cd17a7e9b@columbus.rr.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20041104144854.00b162a0@64.87.54.245> <6107d9c104110509532dd6de9c@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <6107d9c104110509532dd6de9c@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO pixel wrote: > Unless the camera is rock-solid steady, braced against something rigid > (a wall, for instance) or attached to something that isn't moving (a > tripod, a monopod, a beanbag) and the shutter is open for longer than > ~125th of a second (the shutter speed with flash on most cameras) > you'll get camera shake. In borderline cases, simply holding your breath might be enough. Do it all the time and you'll see your average picture quality go up a bit. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 5 13:53:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA5IrZqB032347 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 13:53:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5Iqp4a011956 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 11:52:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5Iqkq4007449; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 11:52:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.201]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5Iqiq4007379 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 11:52:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jacquelinejbump@gmail.com) Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id q1so89903rnf for ; Fri, 05 Nov 2004 10:52:36 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=cTaPvQACgSYwkawWeTkpeTJZhs/xwPzW9/mSvMFGawKdG9YPeIqa2Z16vGh4PZLm9s2hyWAdw94nVQMX2Uio4b/3AP/LJIsnWkWEwugBhkuUnpd+BziXwFGVavgz+WwOVaKxaZXNpzsBHeqDSyrIwzG84UobK3YkVw08FezQ2yM= Received: by 10.38.65.42 with SMTP id n42mr476384rna; Fri, 05 Nov 2004 10:52:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.38.14.59 with HTTP; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 10:52:36 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4c5accc804110510526684c768@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 13:52:36 -0500 From: Jacqueline Johnson To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: digital cameras In-Reply-To: <418BCB0E.2060109@thibault.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <17a7e9b17a65cd.17a65cd17a7e9b@columbus.rr.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20041104144854.00b162a0@64.87.54.245> <6107d9c104110509532dd6de9c@mail.gmail.com> <418BCB0E.2060109@thibault.org> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Or you won't see anything cause you've passed out at an exhibition. On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 13:48:46 -0500, Cynthia Virtue wrote: > In borderline cases, simply holding your breath might be enough. Do it > all the time and you'll see your average picture quality go up a bit. > > -- > Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 5 14:18:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA5JImvR032542 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 14:18:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5JGc4a014082 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 12:16:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5JGWq4026338; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 12:16:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5JGTq4026284 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 12:16:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAE4851EA2 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 11:16:28 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041105111421.00b16850@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 11:16:27 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: digital cameras In-Reply-To: <6107d9c104110509532dd6de9c@mail.gmail.com> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20041104144854.00b162a0@64.87.54.245> <17a7e9b17a65cd.17a65cd17a7e9b@columbus.rr.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20041104144854.00b162a0@64.87.54.245> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:53 AM 11/5/2004 -0600, you wrote: >This is why I use a fast lens and a beanbag when I have to take >low-light photos, A fast lens? All my lenses are the same speed (I thought), isn't it the speed of the film, or the setting on digital cameras to mimic film speed, that are fast or slow? And I agree with you otherwise. I wasn't thinking of museum photos when I made my comments. I usually do studio work where I control lighting factors. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 5 14:22:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA5JMlQY032554 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 14:22:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5JLx4a014653 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 12:22:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5JLqq4030425; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 12:21:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5JLjq5030329 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 12:21:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id iA5JI0TA010166 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 14:18:00 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Fri, 05 Nov 2004 14:18:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <418BD2C6.4040600@thibault.org> Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 14:21:42 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: digital cameras References: <17a7e9b17a65cd.17a65cd17a7e9b@columbus.rr.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20041104144854.00b162a0@64.87.54.245> <6107d9c104110509532dd6de9c@mail.gmail.com> <418BCB0E.2060109@thibault.org> <4c5accc804110510526684c768@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4c5accc804110510526684c768@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Jacqueline Johnson wrote: > Or you won't see anything cause you've passed out at an exhibition. Well, yes, but if holding your breath for two seconds causes you problems, you probably shouldn't be there in the first place! But if you arrange to fall *towards* the piece you're curious about, you can count the threads as they go dark. My husband has definitely seen the improvement in even casual snapshots by remembering to hold his breath. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 5 14:28:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA5JSq37032580 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 14:28:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5JRw4a015205 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 12:27:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5JRsq4034644; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 12:27:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f28.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.78]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5JPCq4032782 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 12:25:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 11:25:04 -0800 Received: from 129.244.6.162 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 05 Nov 2004 19:24:39 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.162] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 13:24:39 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Nov 2004 19:25:04.0978 (UTC) FILETIME=[2733E320:01C4C36D] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: OT: digital cameras X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: Cynthia Virtue >In borderline cases, simply holding your breath might be enough. Do it >all the time and you'll see your average picture quality go up a bit. As well as improve your accuracy at the shooting range :) I find that exhaling, then pushing the button, then inhaling helps. What really helped was one of those cable triggers for the shutter, since it means that I'm not getting ANY giggle from pushing the button. OTOH, I've made the technological leap to film, since I suck with a digital, but am fairly good with a 35 mm camera - go figure. Marc _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 5 14:31:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA5JVBdT032604 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 14:31:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5JUU4a015544 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 12:30:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5JUSq4036588; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 12:30:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.197]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5JQEq4033446 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 12:26:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jacquelinejbump@gmail.com) Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id q1so94218rnf for ; Fri, 05 Nov 2004 11:26:07 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=d9Xe9+ejOKK4zyoc6kLViV2SnEJuRsqQ/vCk8WQo+83ByUFF37nDWpXNUen5GSvOPxYqQnCQo/KfMKW+Ota79aC/xvvHvbHtU8Mc17UT+sfGNQFoSZVNHrMReO9aMQAdB3B1W0Cm2WoFkjCmrTeJWo//FJxEvQxEkfd0MouN5Ts= Received: by 10.38.209.1 with SMTP id h1mr491344rng; Fri, 05 Nov 2004 11:26:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.38.14.59 with HTTP; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 11:26:07 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4c5accc804110511267a18b230@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 14:26:07 -0500 From: Jacqueline Johnson To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: digital cameras In-Reply-To: <418BD2C6.4040600@thibault.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <17a7e9b17a65cd.17a65cd17a7e9b@columbus.rr.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20041104144854.00b162a0@64.87.54.245> <6107d9c104110509532dd6de9c@mail.gmail.com> <418BCB0E.2060109@thibault.org> <4c5accc804110510526684c768@mail.gmail.com> <418BD2C6.4040600@thibault.org> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO *G* I just imagining falling towards some great gown and waking up to announce that the threads are at about 400 per. On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 14:21:42 -0500, Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Jacqueline Johnson wrote: > > > Or you won't see anything cause you've passed out at an exhibition. > > Well, yes, but if holding your breath for two seconds causes you > problems, you probably shouldn't be there in the first place! > > But if you arrange to fall *towards* the piece you're curious about, you > can count the threads as they go dark. > > My husband has definitely seen the improvement in even casual snapshots > by remembering to hold his breath. > > -- > > > Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > -- ============================ Italian Ladies 2005 Calendar http://www.lulu.com/kristalori http://kristalori.com http://snipurl.com/96f1 Dress Diaries http://snipurl.com/9bir That 70's Trailer ============================ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 5 14:43:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA5JhMvR032715 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 14:43:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5Jgi4a016755 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 12:42:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5Jgeq4045754; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 12:42:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5JgZq5045665 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 12:42:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id iA5JcpTA010370 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 14:38:51 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Fri, 05 Nov 2004 14:38:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <418BD7A8.6000803@thibault.org> Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 14:42:32 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: digital cameras References: <5.2.1.1.0.20041104144854.00b162a0@64.87.54.245> <17a7e9b17a65cd.17a65cd17a7e9b@columbus.rr.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20041104144854.00b162a0@64.87.54.245> <5.2.1.1.0.20041105111421.00b16850@64.87.54.245> In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20041105111421.00b16850@64.87.54.245> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kimiko Small wrote: > A fast lens? All my lenses are the same speed (I thought), isn't it the > speed of the film, or the setting on digital cameras to mimic film > speed, that are fast or slow? The way lenses work, with the multiple layers of actual chunkls of glass that are in most of them, they lose light on the way to the film (or the digital equivalent.) Think of them as variously thick sunglasses. So if you can, you want ones that are engineered to lose as little light as possible. Less like sunglasses. Those are the "faster" lenses. Of course, "faster" lenses cost more money than the equivalent less fast ones, so it's a tradeoff. If your subject isn't moving (few embroideries are likely to scurry off in the middle of a shoot) it's less of a problem if you can compensate with tripods, etc. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 5 15:01:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA5K1ov4000387 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 15:01:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5K0o4a018307 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 13:00:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5K0jq4058933; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 13:00:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5K0Jq4058503 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 13:00:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.f7.43a47ca2 (3699) for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 15:00:07 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 15:00:07 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: digital cameras To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5034 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/5/2004 1:24:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, goddessandqueen@gmail.com writes: This is why I use a fast lens and a beanbag when I have to take low-light photos, if I can't brace the camera against the glass. Not all museums or historical sites allow tripods or even monopods, but you can usually bring a small beanbag in without a problem. Thanks for the hint. A small one would fit nicely in my camera bag. I didn't know I could adjust the ISO on my camera, either, until a few months ago, so I can set it for "400" equivalent and disable the flash. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 5 15:05:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA5K5FAs000429 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 15:05:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5K3s4a018585 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 13:03:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5K3pq4061383; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 13:03:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5K3kq4061262 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 13:03:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.ba.6426c742 (3699) for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 15:03:34 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 15:03:34 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: OT: digital cameras To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5034 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/5/2004 2:30:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, marccarlson20@hotmail.com writes: OTOH, I've made the technological leap to film, since I suck with a digital, but am fairly good with a 35 mm camera - go figure. That is interesting. I've found my photos are much better with my digital--I was never great shakes with film, although my last point and shoot wasn't bad. The biggest problem I had with it is that, with the macro setting, you didn't really get what you saw in the viewfinder. Made taking close ups very challenging. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 5 15:06:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA5K6YGr000441 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 15:06:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5K614a018752 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 13:06:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5K5vq4062847; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 13:05:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m25.mx.aol.com (imo-m25.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5K5qq4062770 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 13:05:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.1da.2eb162fd (3699) for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 15:05:41 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <1da.2eb162fd.2ebd3715@aol.com> Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 15:05:41 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman cosmetics found in south London To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5034 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/5/2004 9:49:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, lstrid@mglarc.com writes: Now I wish they would publish the formula . yeah, but when you do see published formulas, from 18th c. for example, it's always got great things in it like lead, spermaceti, or mercury. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 5 15:43:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA5Kh7JT000822 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 15:43:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5KgH4a022057 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 13:42:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5Kfvq4090004; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 13:42:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.mc.surewest.net (smtp2.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.51]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id iA5Kfmq4089893 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 13:41:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-9226); Fri, 05 Nov 2004 12:41:48 -0800 Received: from unknown (64.30.124.24) by smtp2.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Fri, 05 Nov 2004 12:41:47 -0800 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20041105124001.00d38930@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 12:41:11 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman cosmetics found in south London In-Reply-To: <1da.2eb162fd.2ebd3715@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp2.mc.surewest.net SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=64.30.124.24 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ah, but this one is animal fat, starch, and tin oxide. They just did not give the proportions. Joan Jurancich At 03:05 PM 11/5/2004 -0500, you wrote: >In a message dated 11/5/2004 9:49:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, >lstrid@mglarc.com writes: >Now I wish they would publish the formula . >yeah, but when you do see published formulas, from 18th c. for example, it's >always got great things in it like lead, spermaceti, or mercury. > >Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 5 15:54:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA5KsrGI000903 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 15:54:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5Ks64a023356 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 13:54:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5Krwq4099656; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 13:54:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mxsf16.cluster1.charter.net (mxsf16.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.216]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5Krtq4099561 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 13:53:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fox3785@charter.net) Received: from mxip05.cluster1.charter.net (mxip05a.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.135]) by mxsf16.cluster1.charter.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iA5KrgOx024489 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 15:53:48 -0500 Received: from cpe-66-189-112-98.ma.charter.com (HELO familyroom) (66.189.112.98) by mxip05.cluster1.charter.net with ESMTP; 05 Nov 2004 15:53:42 -0500 X-Ironport-AV: i="3.86,123,1096862400"; d="scan'208"; a="405290022:sNHT13341588" From: "The Foxes" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Roman cosmetics found in south London Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 15:53:49 -0500 Message-ID: <001401c4c379$8cd3dad0$0302a8c0@familyroom> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20041105124001.00d38930@pop.surewest.net> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, In the article I read from CNN the other day they said that it was 40%animal fat to 40%starch and tin oxide. Not necessarily 100% accurate, but a place to start experimenting.. if one wanted to.. http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/science/11/03/science.cosmetics.reut/index. html Just thought I'd pipe up.. back to the dark lurking corners of the list.. Eleanor le Brun -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Joan Jurancich Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 3:41 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman cosmetics found in south London Ah, but this one is animal fat, starch, and tin oxide. They just did not give the proportions. Joan Jurancich At 03:05 PM 11/5/2004 -0500, you wrote: >In a message dated 11/5/2004 9:49:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, >lstrid@mglarc.com writes: >Now I wish they would publish the formula . >yeah, but when you do see published formulas, from 18th c. for example, it's >always got great things in it like lead, spermaceti, or mercury. > >Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 5 16:06:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA5L6S3s000946 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 16:06:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5L5a4a024617 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 14:05:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5L5Uq4009242; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 14:05:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from email.accessus.net (email.accessus.net [209.145.128.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5L5Qq4009080 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 14:05:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from axejudge@accessus.net) Received: from [67.66.157.153] (account axejudge@accessus.net) by email.accessus.net (CommuniGate Pro WebUser 4.2.5) with HTTP id 277925319 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 05 Nov 2004 15:05:17 -0600 From: "Karen Heim" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman cosmetics found in south London To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: CommuniGate Pro WebUser Interface v.4.2.5 Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 15:05:17 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20041105124001.00d38930@pop.surewest.net> References: <4.2.2.20041105124001.00d38930@pop.surewest.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Actually, the article I read did - 40 percent animal fat (probably sheep or cattle), 40 percent starch, the rest tin oxide. Karen On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 12:41:11 -0800 Joan Jurancich wrote: > Ah, but this one is animal fat, starch, and tin oxide. > They just did not give the proportions. > Joan Jurancich _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 5 16:18:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA5LIr3P000999 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 16:18:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5LHm4a025866 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 14:17:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5LHgq4018290; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 14:17:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm43.prodigy.net (ylpvm43-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5LHdq4018263 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 14:17:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-60-232.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.60.232]) by ylpvm43.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5LHdow005624 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 16:17:40 -0500 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20041105131711.0258c6b8@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 13:17:34 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman cosmetics found in south London In-Reply-To: References: <4.2.2.20041105124001.00d38930@pop.surewest.net> <4.2.2.20041105124001.00d38930@pop.surewest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Actually, the article I read did - 40 percent animal fat (probably sheep >or cattle), 40 percent starch, the rest tin oxide. That ought to do nicely as sunscreen. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 5 16:59:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA5LxkNl001195 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 16:59:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5Lx54a000368 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 14:59:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5Lwrq4050939; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 14:58:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.196]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id iA5Lwmq4050804 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 14:58:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Nov 2004 21:58:42 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041105215806.0145d1d8@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 21:59:23 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman cosmetics found in south London In-Reply-To: References: <4.2.2.20041105124001.00d38930@pop.surewest.net> <4.2.2.20041105124001.00d38930@pop.surewest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 15:05 05/11/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Actually, the article I read did - 40 percent animal fat (probably sheep >or cattle), 40 percent starch, the rest tin oxide. > >Karen > >On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 12:41:11 -0800 > Joan Jurancich wrote: >>Ah, but this one is animal fat, starch, and tin oxide. They just did not >>give the proportions. >>Joan Jurancich >_______________________________________________ You might be interested in Sally Pointer's site - she makes perfumes and cosmetics and does a "Roman Makeover" on the site. www.sallypointer.com Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 5 17:28:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA5MShm7001299 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 17:28:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5MS64a002885 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 15:28:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5MS1q4072280; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 15:28:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5MRuq4072138 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 15:27:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from M311@aol.com) Received: from M311@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_gc_dev1.2.) id 7.1d4.2ea6ed8d (1320) for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 17:27:46 -0500 (EST) From: M311@aol.com Message-ID: <1d4.2ea6ed8d.2ebd5861@aol.com> Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 17:27:45 EST To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5034 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Fairy tales and nursery rhymes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Doe anyone still have the info on the nursery rhymes and maybe fairy tales that told the meanings behind them? You know the ones like it refered to King or Queen so and so, the plague etc... I didn't save it and it has come up where I could use the info now. Thanks, Kelly _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 5 17:35:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA5MZA4M001333 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 17:35:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5MYM4a003384 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 15:34:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5MYGq4077007; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 15:34:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.compassnet.com.au [203.26.180.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5MYCq5076955 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 15:34:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from glendar@compassnet.com.au) Received: from mail (root@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.10/linuxconf) with SMTP id iA5MhV9W015505 for ; Sat, 6 Nov 2004 09:43:31 +1100 Received: from mycomputer ([203.26.180.157]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.10/linuxconf) with ESMTP id iA5MhULc015500 for ; Sat, 6 Nov 2004 09:43:30 +1100 Message-ID: <047b01c4c387$8cfb7eb0$0100a8c0@mycomputer> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.2.2.20041105124001.00d38930@pop.surewest.net><4.2.2.20041105124001.00d38930@pop.surewest.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20041105215806.0145d1d8@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman cosmetics found in south London Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 09:33:55 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Since I read that site, I've been trying to find some saffron-coloured eyeshadow. I did find some in one of those cheap multi-coloured ones a few years ago, but the set exploded during a plane trip once (eyeshadow powders all over my new toiletry bag!) The ones they sell singly always seem to be in fashion colours only, so I'll have to keep checking. This new mixture is VERY cool! I don't think it would be far off the colour of the lead-oxide cosmetics from the later years, of which I already have a representation. Now I can use it for another reenactment period. Glenda. >>_______________________________________________ > > > > You might be interested in Sally Pointer's site - she makes perfumes and > cosmetics and does a "Roman Makeover" on the site. > > www.sallypointer.com > > Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 5 17:41:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA5Mfikk001365 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 17:41:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5Mf34a004091 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 15:41:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5Mexq4081827; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 15:40:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5Mevq4081784 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 15:40:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11646; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 16:50:58 -0600 Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 16:50:57 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fairy tales and nursery rhymes In-Reply-To: <1d4.2ea6ed8d.2ebd5861@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: h-costume@net.indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 5 Nov 2004 M311@aol.com wrote: > Doe anyone still have the info on the nursery rhymes and maybe fairy > tales that told the meanings behind them? You know the ones like it > refered to King or Queen so and so, the plague etc... I didn't save > it and it has come up where I could use the info now. In my experiences, most of these "historical connections" are myths. Some of the "explanations" were no doubt thought up by creative university students just to see who would bite. For instance, there are lots of sites that tell you that "Ring Around the Rosy" (or "Ring-a-ring-o'-roses," depending on where you're from) refers to the plague. Not so, and there are a handful of authoritateve debunking sites out there that explain what the issues are. But the myth persists, and keeps getting re-quoted by people who don't know. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 5 17:44:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA5Misfj001378 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 17:44:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5Mi44a004338 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 15:44:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5Mhxq4083948; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 15:44:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5Mf0q4081823 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 15:41:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11646; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 16:50:58 -0600 Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 16:50:57 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fairy tales and nursery rhymes In-Reply-To: <1d4.2ea6ed8d.2ebd5861@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: h-costume@net.indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 5 Nov 2004 M311@aol.com wrote: > Doe anyone still have the info on the nursery rhymes and maybe fairy > tales that told the meanings behind them? You know the ones like it > refered to King or Queen so and so, the plague etc... I didn't save > it and it has come up where I could use the info now. In my experiences, most of these "historical connections" are myths. Some of the "explanations" were no doubt thought up by creative university students just to see who would bite. For instance, there are lots of sites that tell you that "Ring Around the Rosy" (or "Ring-a-ring-o'-roses," depending on where you're from) refers to the plague. Not so, and there are a handful of authoritateve debunking sites out there that explain what the issues are. But the myth persists, and keeps getting re-quoted by people who don't know. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 5 17:46:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA5MkfVf001386 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 17:46:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5Mk24a004478 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 15:46:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA5Mk0q4085347; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 15:46:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp809.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp809.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.199]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id iA5Mjuq4085240 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 15:45:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp809.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Nov 2004 22:45:49 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041105224429.01570980@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 22:46:30 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fairy tales and nursery rhymes In-Reply-To: References: <1d4.2ea6ed8d.2ebd5861@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 16:50 05/11/2004 -0600, you wrote: >On Fri, 5 Nov 2004 M311@aol.com wrote: > > > Doe anyone still have the info on the nursery rhymes and maybe fairy > > tales that told the meanings behind them? You know the ones like it > > refered to King or Queen so and so, the plague etc... I didn't save > > it and it has come up where I could use the info now. > >In my experiences, most of these "historical connections" are myths. Some >of the "explanations" were no doubt thought up by creative university >students just to see who would bite. > >For instance, there are lots of sites that tell you that "Ring Around the >Rosy" (or "Ring-a-ring-o'-roses," depending on where you're from) refers >to the plague. Not so, and there are a handful of authoritateve debunking >sites out there that explain what the issues are. But the myth persists, >and keeps getting re-quoted by people who don't know. Iona and Peter Opie "The Oxford Dictionary of Nursery Rhymes" published by OUP in 1951 and frequently reprinted. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 5 20:20:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA61Kpmd001998 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 20:20:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA61IX4a026339 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 18:18:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA61IKq4086063; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 18:18:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail4.mdx.safepages.com (mail4.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.19]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA61Hqq4085789 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 18:17:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail4.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 4D17626855; Sat, 6 Nov 2004 01:17:44 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust35.tnt3.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.197.35]) by mail4.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 12424267EA for ; Sat, 6 Nov 2004 01:17:42 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <011001c4c39e$75b805e0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <418912A7.3020306@reddawn.net> <5.2.1.1.0.20041103195610.023a4c10@64.87.54.245><134201c4c293$849efed0$0400a8c0@compaqub> <418A7905.90805@lavoltapress.com><138d01c4c2a4$8e29ddb0$0400a8c0@compaqub> <418AA192.3040202@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] silk damask Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 19:18:00 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavolta Press" > As for www.hyenaproductions.com, do you know any place to buy the same > brocade fabrics for less? Those specific brocades, not that I can remember. Fabrics of similar quality and similar designs, yes... However, the real problem for me is that they flunk one of my main tests for pricing: I look at the items that I can easily find elsewhere (such as dupioni and taffeta) and if the quality is the same and the prices are much higher on THOSE, then I feel safe in assuming that there's a similar markup on the items I can't match directly. Granted, there can be some major differences in quality with silk sometimes, but I'm just not seeing it here. Don't get me wrong; I don't think they're HUGELY overpriced, and if I couldn't find the shot taffeta colors that I wanted from my less expensive sources, I'd probably go there next. But I think their brocades are at least a quarter or a third more expensive than they should be, which matches my estimation of their taffeta & dupioni prices. A quarter or a third of $75 is a lot harder to swallow than a quarter or a third of $20! =} And really--$40/yd for plain old silk/rayon velvet? Am I missing something? However, it's entirely possible that if I got a set of swatches of their brocades, I'd change my mind, or at least partially change it! Luckily for my budget, though, none of the designs they're listing are right for anything I'd be doing anytime soon. (If they were half that price, some of them might be 'good enough,' though...) > Have you tried the Silk Trading Company, http://www.silktrading.com? > Their San Francisco store is absolutely jaw dropping. I did buy a nice > crimson damask when I was there last. Their website isn't nearly as > good as the store, but maybe they will swatch. Oo, yeah, I forgot about them! Now, I would just LOVE to know if their taffeta is genuinely worth $44/yd. I should try to get some swatches... their silks just plain look heavier than most of those available, which I WOULD pay $80/yd or more to get. Well, maybe not today, but someday. Wish they listed the weights! -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 5 20:22:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA61M73B002007 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 20:22:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA61LP4a026511 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 18:21:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA61LPq4087545; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 18:21:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail14.mdx.safepages.com (mail14.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.154.244]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA61Jeq4086672 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 18:19:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail14.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 42C131ECD4C; Sat, 6 Nov 2004 01:19:38 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust35.tnt3.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.197.35]) by mail14.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 30B131ECD44 for ; Sat, 6 Nov 2004 01:19:32 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <011301c4c39e$b91e8250$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <418912A7.3020306@reddawn.net><5.2.1.1.0.20041103195610.023a4c10@64.87.54.245><134201c4c293$849efed0$0400a8c0@compaqub><418A7905.90805@lavoltapress.com><138d01c4c2a4$8e29ddb0$0400a8c0@compaqub> <4c5accc804110411361f581754@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] silk damask (was: shopping in London) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 19:19:45 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jacqueline Johnson" > http://www.luigi-bevilacqua.com/ very pricey. I have their catalog and > sample swatches here someplace. Incredible fabric though. Oooh, do you know how I might go about getting my hands on a catalog and sample swatches? -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 5 20:31:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA61VL1t002040 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 20:31:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA61Ph4a026773 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 18:25:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA61Pdq4089582; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 18:25:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.207]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA61Pbq4089565 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 18:25:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jacquelinejbump@gmail.com) Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id q1so132640rnf for ; Fri, 05 Nov 2004 17:25:37 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=VG72w0PdAJb0xGwt/TbaGQ8szO2kRLJiWd39MxZt/n/id8qiMENaMyB3mLmknS1R6ZSMNcuawd2R17T0JadycurCvoqyhQGvafD6WFtClQ9eEtlyEO2v1nlgN33Posd4DwIcjJ/x9Vvb4f/uROLUhxyCQNRX0Dz+lDh49x96yrw= Received: by 10.38.79.53 with SMTP id c53mr688195rnb; Fri, 05 Nov 2004 17:25:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.38.14.59 with HTTP; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 17:25:37 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4c5accc8041105172572b55ba9@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 20:25:37 -0500 From: Jacqueline Johnson To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] silk damask (was: shopping in London) In-Reply-To: <011301c4c39e$b91e8250$0400a8c0@compaqub> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <418912A7.3020306@reddawn.net> <5.2.1.1.0.20041103195610.023a4c10@64.87.54.245> <134201c4c293$849efed0$0400a8c0@compaqub> <418A7905.90805@lavoltapress.com> <138d01c4c2a4$8e29ddb0$0400a8c0@compaqub> <4c5accc804110411361f581754@mail.gmail.com> <011301c4c39e$b91e8250$0400a8c0@compaqub> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I emailed them and then they called me. On Fri, 5 Nov 2004 19:19:45 -0600, E House wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jacqueline Johnson" > > > http://www.luigi-bevilacqua.com/ very pricey. I have their catalog and > > sample swatches here someplace. Incredible fabric though. > > Oooh, do you know how I might go about getting my hands on a catalog and > sample swatches? > > -E House > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > -- ============================ Italian Ladies 2005 Calendar http://www.lulu.com/kristalori http://kristalori.com http://snipurl.com/96f1 Dress Diaries http://snipurl.com/9bir That 70's Trailer ============================ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 5 22:05:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA63522P002555 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 22:05:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA634Q4a003466 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 20:04:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA634Jq4040016; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 20:04:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.202.56]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA634Hq4039968 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 20:04:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lauren.walker@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (h0006255ec5ea.ne.client2.attbi.com[66.31.43.36]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <20041106030411012009kt7ue>; Sat, 6 Nov 2004 03:04:11 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 22:04:10 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fairy tales and nursery rhymes From: Lauren Walker To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > From: Robin Netherton > > For instance, there are lots of sites that tell you that "Ring Around the > Rosy" (or "Ring-a-ring-o'-roses," depending on where you're from) refers > to the plague. Not so, and there are a handful of authoritateve debunking > sites out there that explain what the issues are. But the myth persists, > and keeps getting re-quoted by people who don't know. > Oh, heck, next you're going to tell me Thos. Crapper didn't invent the toilet! My cousins will be SO disappointed. Lauren _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 5 23:09:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA6491M7002787 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 23:09:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA648O4a007863 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 21:08:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA648Dq4069854; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 21:08:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m24.mx.aol.com (imo-m24.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA648Aq4069807 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 21:08:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.12d.4ec0ec8c (4402) for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 23:08:02 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <12d.4ec0ec8c.2ebda822@aol.com> Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 23:08:02 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman cosmetics found in south London To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5034 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/5/2004 3:45:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, joanmj@surewest.net writes: tin oxide Yes, and I'm sure we can just go out to our local drug store and buy that! Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 5 23:19:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA64JR8F002858 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 23:19:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA64Ir4a008443 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 21:18:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA64Ilq4074821; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 21:18:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA64Ijq4074743 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 21:18:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.ac.667d5acf (4402) for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 23:18:37 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 23:18:37 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fairy tales and nursery rhymes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5034 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/5/2004 10:07:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, lauren.walker@comcast.net writes: Thos. Crapper didn't invent the toilet! My cousins will be SO disappointed. Well, I think he did develop one version of it, but certainly not the earliest one. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 6 00:44:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA65iQ4Z003205 for ; Sat, 6 Nov 2004 00:44:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA65hh4a012872 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 22:43:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA65haq4011829; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 22:43:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA65hWq4011750 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 22:43:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.145.25]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id iA65hGht006186 for ; Sat, 6 Nov 2004 16:43:17 +1100 Message-ID: <002c01c4c3c3$5dd69700$1991d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <110520041434.20447.418B8F6A00094E3000004FDF21602810609C9C0A0B0B0109090207990A9C@att.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] shopping in London Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 14:58:07 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Coach? Please excuse my misunderstanding ..... is that more like a bus or a wagon with horses? > > > Thaks so much everybody! I really appreciate this! > Crissy Ah terminology differences yes it is a bus but generally if you're doing a long distance trip you'd call it a coach (Assuming UK & Australian terminology match up here), whereas if it's local (within the same city) you call it a bus. obviously there are differences (the seats are more comfy on a coach coaches are often bigger) but to all intents and purposes it's a bus. Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole in OR in Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra, Australia ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 6 01:41:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA66feQP003415 for ; Sat, 6 Nov 2004 01:41:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA66f24a015020 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 23:41:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA66ewq4031323; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 23:40:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail11.mdx.safepages.com (mail11.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA66euq4031226 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 23:40:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id DAA89A069A; Sat, 6 Nov 2004 06:40:43 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust177.tnt1.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.148.177]) by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id D297BA061E for ; Sat, 6 Nov 2004 06:40:41 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <011801c4c3cb$93d9fa10$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <418912A7.3020306@reddawn.net><5.2.1.1.0.20041103195610.023a4c10@64.87.54.245><134201c4c293$849efed0$0400a8c0@compaqub><418A7905.90805@lavoltapress.com><138d01c4c2a4$8e29ddb0$0400a8c0@compaqub><4c5accc804110411361f581754@mail.gmail.com><011301c4c39e$b91e8250$0400a8c0@compaqub> <4c5accc8041105172572b55ba9@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] silk damask (was: shopping in London) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 00:40:56 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ah! I guess I'm just being too impatient waiting for my email response. (Also, spending half the day on the dialup modem...) Thanks. =} -E ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jacqueline Johnson" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 7:25 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] silk damask (was: shopping in London) > I emailed them and then they called me. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 6 01:55:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA66tYgS003488 for ; Sat, 6 Nov 2004 01:55:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA66t04a015590 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Nov 2004 23:55:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA66snq4035983; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 23:54:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA66skq5035957 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 23:54:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-90.sonic.net [209.148.114.90]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iA66shKV021776 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 22:54:46 -0800 Message-ID: <418C7535.2040607@lavoltapress.com> Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 22:54:45 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] silk damask References: <418912A7.3020306@reddawn.net> <5.2.1.1.0.20041103195610.023a4c10@64.87.54.245><134201c4c293$849efed0$0400a8c0@compaqub> <418A7905.90805@lavoltapress.com><138d01c4c2a4$8e29ddb0$0400a8c0@compaqub> <418AA192.3040202@lavoltapress.com> <011001c4c39e$75b805e0$0400a8c0@compaqub> In-Reply-To: <011001c4c39e$75b805e0$0400a8c0@compaqub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Oo, yeah, I forgot about them! Now, I would just LOVE to know if their >taffeta is genuinely worth $44/yd. I should try to get some swatches... >their silks just plain look heavier than most of those available, which I >WOULD pay $80/yd or more to get. Well, maybe not today, but someday. Wish >they listed the weights! > > > > The Silk Trading Company carries different silks than you see elsewhere. I'm not saying no one else has any of them, but it's not the usual selection of plain taffeta in a range of colors, plain dupioni ditto, etc. In fact they don't carry many plain fabrics. I'm always knocked out by their store. The first time I went there, a few years ago, they had aisles and aisles of nothing but striped silk taffeta. Mostly rather wide stripes, but some usable for clothing. They had brocades, checks, and embroidered and textured silks too, but striped taffeta was clearly IN for decorating. Last time I went there, a couple months ago, they had a lot fewer striped taffetas. They had tons of large baroque brocades and embroideries, some of which they displayed made up into bedcoverings. I would say their usual taffeta weight is suitable for drapes, although I'm sure they expect them to be lined. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 6 03:50:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA68oanY027931 for ; Sat, 6 Nov 2004 03:50:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA68nr4a020456 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 6 Nov 2004 01:49:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA68ngq4082007; Sat, 6 Nov 2004 01:49:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (mta05-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.45]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA68ndq4081952 for ; Sat, 6 Nov 2004 01:49:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jill@jigrah.co.uk) Received: from HP411.jigrah.co.uk ([80.6.241.239]) by mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with ESMTP id <20041106084625.XJMA28128.mta05-svc.ntlworld.com@HP411.jigrah.co.uk> for ; Sat, 6 Nov 2004 08:46:25 +0000 Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20041106084523.00b847b0@pop.oneandone.co.uk> X-Sender: pt8296337-1938@pop.oneandone.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 08:50:00 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jill Hadfield Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fairy tales and nursery rhymes In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-158026F8; boundary="=======62521B6A=======" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --=======62521B6A======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-158026F8; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I think that he invented the 'S' bend making it possible to have an indoor toilet (no smell) John Harrington invented the first one I believe during the reign of Elizabeth I - I think I also read somewhere in the dim and distant past that he built one especially for her. Jill At 22:04 05/11/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Oh, heck, next you're going to tell me Thos. Crapper didn't invent the >toilet! My cousins will be SO disappointed. >Lauren > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume JiGraH Resources - www.jigrah.co.uk --=======62521B6A======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --=======62521B6A=======-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 6 08:22:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA6DMHqc032302 for ; Sat, 6 Nov 2004 08:22:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA6DLc4a005322 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 6 Nov 2004 06:21:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA6DLQq4094511; Sat, 6 Nov 2004 06:21:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA6DLLq4094414 for ; Sat, 6 Nov 2004 06:21:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from betsy@softwareinnovation.com) Received: from theforce ([64.0.176.13]) by softwareinnovation.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Sat, 6 Nov 2004 07:20:29 -0600 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Roman cosmetics found in south London Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 07:21:21 -0600 Message-ID: <000001c4c403$820aac20$0db00040@softwareinnovation.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <12d.4ec0ec8c.2ebda822@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Nov 2004 13:20:29.0392 (UTC) FILETIME=[62C01D00:01C4C403] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Isn't tin (stannous) oxide used by lifeguards as 200 spf sun block? That white stuff? Alternately, it is also used by lapidaries to polish stones, as it can be prepared in a quite extreme grade of fineness.. see here about 1/3 of the way down- don't know how long it would take to use up a pound of it.. http://www.facetingmachines.com/polishes.shtml but you might arrange a group order? -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of AnnBWass@aol.com Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 10:08 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman cosmetics found in south London In a message dated 11/5/2004 3:45:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, joanmj@surewest.net writes: tin oxide Yes, and I'm sure we can just go out to our local drug store and buy that! Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 6 11:05:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA6G5HUj000715 for ; Sat, 6 Nov 2004 11:05:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA6G4a4a015482 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 6 Nov 2004 09:04:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA6G4Hq4076292; Sat, 6 Nov 2004 09:04:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm01.prodigy.net (ylpvm01-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.32]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA6G4Aq4076245 for ; Sat, 6 Nov 2004 09:04:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-59-92.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.59.92]) by ylpvm01.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA6G48nH009378 for ; Sat, 6 Nov 2004 11:04:09 -0500 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20041106080401.02577958@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 08:04:05 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: [h-cost] Roman cosmetics found in south London Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Isn't tin (stannous) oxide used by lifeguards as 200 spf sun block? That >white stuff? Zinc oxide? I got these mixed up when I suggested possible sun-screen possibilities for this mix. (May still have them mixed up.) CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 6 13:16:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA6IGCHA001684 for ; Sat, 6 Nov 2004 13:16:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA6IFS4a005085 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 6 Nov 2004 11:15:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA6IFGq4046399; Sat, 6 Nov 2004 11:15:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from lakermmtao10.cox.net (lakermmtao10.cox.net [68.230.240.29]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA6IFDq4046299 for ; Sat, 6 Nov 2004 11:15:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mysteri@cox.net) Received: from c8g2n3 ([68.227.117.181]) by lakermmtao10.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.04.00 201-2131-117-20041022) with SMTP id <20041106181506.YOBH13256.lakermmtao10.cox.net@c8g2n3> for ; Sat, 6 Nov 2004 13:15:06 -0500 Message-ID: <000f01c4c42c$8aadfd40$6401a8c0@c8g2n3> From: "Mys" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1d4.2ea6ed8d.2ebd5861@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fairy tales and nursery rhymes Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 12:15:05 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2741.2600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2742.200 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/574/Thu Nov 4 17:12:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Check out http://www.rhymes.org.uk/ This might help you out a bit. Mysteri ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 4:27 PM Subject: [h-cost] Fairy tales and nursery rhymes > Doe anyone still have the info on the nursery rhymes and maybe fairy tales > that told the meanings behind them? You know the ones like it refered to King > or Queen so and so, the plague etc... I didn't save it and it has come up > where I could use the info now. > Thanks, > Kelly > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 6 21:57:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA72vhIB006118 for ; Sat, 6 Nov 2004 21:57:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA72v54a009849 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 6 Nov 2004 19:57:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA72urq4006456; Sat, 6 Nov 2004 19:56:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ns3.linuxwebnet.com (ns3.linuxwebnet.com [216.133.76.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id iA72unq4006414 for ; Sat, 6 Nov 2004 19:56:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from judymitch@oldwaylane.net) Received: (qmail 9096 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2004 03:25:44 -0000 Received: from dialup-4.249.81.152.dial1.washington2.level3.net (HELO oldwaylane.net) (4.249.81.152) by shada.com with SMTP; 7 Nov 2004 03:25:44 -0000 Message-ID: <418D8E9C.30709@oldwaylane.net> Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 21:55:24 -0500 From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fairy tales and nursery rhymes References: <1d4.2ea6ed8d.2ebd5861@aol.com> <000f01c4c42c$8aadfd40$6401a8c0@c8g2n3> In-Reply-To: <000f01c4c42c$8aadfd40$6401a8c0@c8g2n3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/575/Fri Nov 5 18:03:53 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/575/Fri Nov 5 18:03:53 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mys wrote: > Check out http://www.rhymes.org.uk/ > > This might help you out a bit. > although this site lists the Black Plague derivation for Ring around the Rosy... which someone recently posted is not correct? It's all I've ever heard for it. Does that make the rest of the info here suspect? I'd be curious what the derivation is on that rhyme, if it's not Plague. -Judy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 6 23:48:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA74mpp3006971 for ; Sat, 6 Nov 2004 23:48:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA74m44a016918 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 6 Nov 2004 21:48:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA74lsq4056494; Sat, 6 Nov 2004 21:47:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065c10.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065c10.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.184]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA74lqq4056476 for ; Sat, 6 Nov 2004 21:47:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from perronnelle@earthlink.net) Received: from user-12hc6s3.cable.mindspring.com ([69.22.27.131] helo=[192.168.1.100]) by pop-a065c10.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CQexz-0005AA-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 06 Nov 2004 20:47:51 -0800 Message-ID: <418DA8E8.5090800@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 22:47:36 -0600 From: Charlene Charette User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20040616 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fairy tales and nursery rhymes References: <1d4.2ea6ed8d.2ebd5861@aol.com> <000f01c4c42c$8aadfd40$6401a8c0@c8g2n3> <418D8E9C.30709@oldwaylane.net> In-Reply-To: <418D8E9C.30709@oldwaylane.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/575/Fri Nov 5 18:03:53 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/575/Fri Nov 5 18:03:53 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Judy Mitchell wrote: > although this site lists the Black Plague derivation for Ring around > the Rosy... which someone recently posted is not correct? It's all I've > ever heard for it. Does that make the rest of the info here suspect? I'd > be curious what the derivation is on that rhyme, if it's not Plague. Here are some good sites debunking Ring Around the Rosie. There are numerous others. http://www.snopes.com/language/literary/rosie.htm http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/amroth/RATR/ring.html http://members.tripod.com/nicolaa5/articles/rosie.html --Charlene -- As long as I count the votes, what are you going to do about it? -- William "Boss" Tweed, Election Day, 1871 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 7 01:57:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA76vW4r007629 for ; Sun, 7 Nov 2004 01:57:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA76uI4a022847 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 6 Nov 2004 23:56:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA76tmq4098719; Sat, 6 Nov 2004 23:55:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA76tjq4098629 for ; Sat, 6 Nov 2004 23:55:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.144.89]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id iA76tSdp030330 for ; Sun, 7 Nov 2004 17:55:30 +1100 Message-ID: <000001c4c496$9d744dc0$5990d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20041106080401.02577958@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman cosmetics found in south London Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 10:50:41 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/575/Fri Nov 5 18:03:53 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/575/Fri Nov 5 18:03:53 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2004 3:04 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Roman cosmetics found in south London > > >Isn't tin (stannous) oxide used by lifeguards as 200 spf sun block? That > >white stuff? > > Zinc oxide? I got these mixed up when I suggested possible sun-screen > possibilities for this mix. (May still have them mixed up.) > Yes it's zinc, especially popular with Australian Cricket players and lifeguards, most commonly white but it can also be found in coloured forms (we had some in yellow green and pink fluro colours when I was little). I've actually thought that zinc was probably the easiest product to use as a substitute for the lead based Elizabethan face paint. It could be expensive to buy enough for your whole face (as most people just use it in strategic places like the nose and cheekbones which are most likely to get burnt) But I haven't bought zinc cream in years so I can't remember what the prices are like. I think the Tin Oxide would work just as well as a sun-block because it too provides a physical barrier unlike the sunscreens that you can't see when you rub them on. Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole in OR in Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra, Australia ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 7 09:20:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA7EKYai023467 for ; Sun, 7 Nov 2004 09:20:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA7EJn4a016201 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 7 Nov 2004 07:19:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA7EJaq4081684; Sun, 7 Nov 2004 07:19:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.67]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA7EJXq4081647 for ; Sun, 7 Nov 2004 07:19:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dannw@lycos.com) Received: from wfilter.us4.outblaze.com (wfilter.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.180]) by webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix) with QMQP id 7C56018001BC for ; Sun, 7 Nov 2004 14:19:28 +0000 (GMT) X-OB-Received: from unknown (208.36.123.31) by wfilter.us4.outblaze.com; 7 Nov 2004 14:19:28 -0000 Received: by ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 5651CE5BC7; Sun, 7 Nov 2004 14:19:28 +0000 (GMT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Received: from [130.88.84.123] by ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com with http for dannw@lycos.com; Sun, 07 Nov 2004 14:19:28 +0000 From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 14:19:28 +0000 Subject: Re: [h-cost] shopping in London X-Originating-Ip: 130.88.84.123 X-Originating-Server: ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com Message-Id: <20041107141928.5651CE5BC7@ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/575/Fri Nov 5 18:03:53 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/575/Fri Nov 5 18:03:53 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id iA7EJXq4081647 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If you want to take side trips around the country you might want to consider http://www.megabus.com - it doesn't go everywhere but you can get from Manchester to London for as little as £1.50, however you spend twice as long getting there as by train. Just something to think about... Cheers, Danielle ----- Original Message ----- > Oooh.. it didn't look all that far on the map.. But now that I know know better I will rethink this. I'll definitely make Berwick street a destination when I do go in to town....... and then side trips everywhere. Nottingham would be wonderful! Leeds I've heard a lot about there. And I'm sure I can get into some trouble in Sheffield as well... How late in the evening do the trains run? Do they all stop at an early hour like 7 or do they go until 10-11pm or so? > Thaks so much everybody! I really appreciate this! > Crissy -- _______________________________________________ Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 7 09:36:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA7Ea9a7023532 for ; Sun, 7 Nov 2004 09:36:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA7EZT4a017012 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 7 Nov 2004 07:35:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA7EZKq4088983; Sun, 7 Nov 2004 07:35:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.67]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA7EZHq4088883 for ; Sun, 7 Nov 2004 07:35:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dannw@lycos.com) Received: from wfilter.us4.outblaze.com (wfilter.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.180]) by webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix) with QMQP id B8E9E180012B for ; Sun, 7 Nov 2004 14:34:49 +0000 (GMT) X-OB-Received: from unknown (208.36.123.31) by wfilter.us4.outblaze.com; 7 Nov 2004 14:34:49 -0000 Received: by ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 97689E5BC7; Sun, 7 Nov 2004 14:34:49 +0000 (GMT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Received: from [130.88.84.123] by ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com with http for dannw@lycos.com; Sun, 07 Nov 2004 14:34:49 +0000 From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 14:34:49 +0000 Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: digital cameras X-Originating-Ip: 130.88.84.123 X-Originating-Server: ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com Message-Id: <20041107143449.97689E5BC7@ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/575/Fri Nov 5 18:03:53 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/575/Fri Nov 5 18:03:53 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id iA7EZHq4088883 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, I have an EXCELLENT camera for photographing textiles. It is an Olympus 5.0 megapixel - I don't have it with me here at school but I belive it is this one, the C5060: http://www.olympusamerica.com/cpg_section/cpg_product_lobbypage.asp?l=1&p=16&bc=2&product=936 It takes fabulous low light shots (you turn of the flash and the pictures are usually much better that with it on. It can also zoom enough to count threads and get an idea of the fibre type. I can send you a close up example later if you wish, and email me off list. I highly recommend it - when I was preparing for research trips to England for my Masters, we looked at all the cameras availible and this is the best one I found for textile work. Cheers, Danielle > Well, sort of OT, as I would be using it for costumeing :) > > I am looking to, finally, invest in a digital camera. One of the > things it would be used for is close-up pics of needlework & costumes so > I thought this group might have some good experience with these things > :). I would like the ability to do pretty good close-ups, not > interested in making any movies. Anyone have a brand/model they would > recommend? > > Catherine -- _______________________________________________ Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 7 13:08:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA7I8h1f024540 for ; Sun, 7 Nov 2004 13:08:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA7I7q4a005378 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 7 Nov 2004 11:07:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA7I7Zq4089029; Sun, 7 Nov 2004 11:07:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web51308.mail.yahoo.com (web51308.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.174]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id iA7I7Xq4088932 for ; Sun, 7 Nov 2004 11:07:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from elvestoorder@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20041107180728.5405.qmail@web51308.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.237.35.88] by web51308.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 07 Nov 2004 10:07:28 PST Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 10:07:28 -0800 (PST) From: Ann Catelli Subject: Ringa around the Rosies Re: [h-cost] Fairy tales and nursery rhymes To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <418D8E9C.30709@oldwaylane.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/575/Fri Nov 5 18:03:53 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/575/Fri Nov 5 18:03:53 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > although this site lists the Black Plague > derivation for Ring around > the Rosy... which someone recently posted is not > correct? It's all I've > ever heard for it. > be curious what the derivation is on that rhyme, if > it's not Plague. > > -Judy First published in 1880's & not found in other forms prior to that, per the "Annotated Mother Goose by William S. Baring-Gould, Ceil Baring-Gould" several editions. also per my unreliable memory. Ann in CT __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 7 19:40:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA80ehr2026605 for ; Sun, 7 Nov 2004 19:40:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA80dk4a010809 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 7 Nov 2004 17:39:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA80dPq4077616; Sun, 7 Nov 2004 17:39:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.67]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA80dMq4077587 for ; Sun, 7 Nov 2004 17:39:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [4.152.198.14] (helo=MOM) by smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CQxZ3-00019p-El for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 07 Nov 2004 19:39:22 -0500 Message-ID: <013701c4c52b$66ca8330$0200a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 19:39:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 140fedcc4d524cc6b18d26c2e407058b94f5150ab1c16ac08f4233f47979de26bf1177d02cf4d2d3fa184796a919cef4350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.152.198.14 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/575/Fri Nov 5 18:03:53 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/575/Fri Nov 5 18:03:53 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Threads X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id iA80ehr2026605 Status: RO Does anyone have the Dec/Jan issue of Threads yet? Marna Jean told me that my Costume Classroom was list as one of the best places to take online sewing classes. If you have this new issue of the magazine, can you please scan the page of the magazine and send it to me. It is on page 20. This issue doesn't come out in the stores until Nov. 15... I am guessing subscribers get it earlier. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Online Reference Library, AND Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumegallery.com/research.htm www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 7 20:26:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA81QJBQ026791 for ; Sun, 7 Nov 2004 20:26:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA81Pi4a014337 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 7 Nov 2004 18:25:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA81Peq4099834; Sun, 7 Nov 2004 18:25:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA81Pbq4099801 for ; Sun, 7 Nov 2004 18:25:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m30.in-tch.com [216.166.191.30]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id iA81NwU24673 for ; Sun, 7 Nov 2004 18:23:58 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <418ECC24.3070000@in-tch.com> Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 18:30:12 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Threads References: <013701c4c52b$66ca8330$0200a8c0@MOM> In-Reply-To: <013701c4c52b$66ca8330$0200a8c0@MOM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/575/Fri Nov 5 18:03:53 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/575/Fri Nov 5 18:03:53 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't get _Threads_ by subscription, so I haven't seen the listing, but congrats, Penny! I know that I certainly got a lot from the classes I took through your website! --sue, going back to her holiday knitting ;o) Penny Ladnier wrote: > Does anyone have the Dec/Jan issue of Threads yet? Marna Jean told > me that my Costume Classroom was list as one of the best places to > take online sewing classes. If you have this new issue of the > magazine, can you please scan the page of the magazine and send it to > me. It is on page 20. This issue doesn't come out in the stores > until Nov. 15... I am guessing subscribers get it earlier. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 7 20:49:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA81nBoV026914 for ; Sun, 7 Nov 2004 20:49:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA81mP4a016282 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 7 Nov 2004 18:48:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA81l9q4009980; Sun, 7 Nov 2004 18:47:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.67]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA81l7q4009957 for ; Sun, 7 Nov 2004 18:47:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [4.152.198.55] (helo=MOM) by smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CQycc-0003sd-BQ for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 07 Nov 2004 20:47:07 -0500 Message-ID: <015b01c4c534$de343070$0200a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <013701c4c52b$66ca8330$0200a8c0@MOM> <418ECC24.3070000@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Threads Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 20:47:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 140fedcc4d524cc6b18d26c2e407058b94f5150ab1c16ac08f4233f47979de260171089bbf6ea27ad222437c2aca1985350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.152.198.55 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/575/Fri Nov 5 18:03:53 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/575/Fri Nov 5 18:03:53 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id iA81nBoV026914 Status: RO Thank you Sue! I don't subscribe either. I quickly went to B&N and they said the Dec./Jan. issue will not be out until Nov. 15. Marna Jean had been at the hospital all week with her grandfather. She came home quickly to get dressed for church, and saw the article in Threads. She dropped me a very quick email and took off to church. I was really surprised. MJ said they also mentioned her classes too! She said costumeclassroom.com was near the top of the list for online sewing classes. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Online Reference Library, AND Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumegallery.com/research.htm www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 7 22:29:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA83TThD027287 for ; Sun, 7 Nov 2004 22:29:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA83Sv4a024242 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 7 Nov 2004 20:28:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA83Siq4061512; Sun, 7 Nov 2004 20:28:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts5.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA83Seq4061445 for ; Sun, 7 Nov 2004 20:28:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dluckham@sympatico.ca) Received: from Main.sympatico.ca ([69.156.7.33]) by tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with ESMTP id <20041108032839.SAEN29162.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@Main.sympatico.ca> for ; Sun, 7 Nov 2004 22:28:39 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20041107222600.00c520d0@pop8.sympatico.ca> X-Sender: b1jerw63@pop8.sympatico.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 22:28:27 -0500 To: h-costume@net.indra.com From: Dawn Luckham Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/577/Sun Nov 7 16:32:14 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/577/Sun Nov 7 16:32:14 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Threads X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Penny, I'm a subscriber and haven't received this issue yet in the mail. Perhaps different mailing areas are on different schedules? Congratulations! Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 8 04:30:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA89U5dj023463 for ; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 04:30:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA89KI4a014980 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 8 Nov 2004 02:20:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA89K5q4025015; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 02:20:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA89Jvq4024672 for ; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 02:20:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id iA89JO215446.; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 09:19:24 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 08 Nov 2004 09:19:23 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 09:19:08 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: British trains, was Re: [h-cost] shopping in London Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/577/Sun Nov 7 16:32:14 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/577/Sun Nov 7 16:32:14 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > How late in the evening do the trains run? Do they all stop at an early hour like 7 or do they go until 10-11pm or so? > Crissy No-one seems to have answered this, so - No, British trains don't stop running in the early evening. See http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/planmyjourney/time_table/journey_requirements.asp?&T2ID=8347_20044593238 Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 8 09:58:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA8EwgqV024728 for ; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 09:58:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA8EuO4a018249 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 8 Nov 2004 07:56:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA8EuAq4085074; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 07:56:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA8Eu5q4084920 for ; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 07:56:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fee.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.238]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 1C0C75EE058 for ; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 15:55:52 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000501c4c5a3$1497f2a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 15:56:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/577/Sun Nov 7 16:32:14 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/577/Sun Nov 7 16:32:14 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] another stays question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am trying to make the stays pattern in Koehlers book. On page 343 there is a pattern draft. It says first half of 18th century, but how early is it? There seems to be 14 pieces sewed together for this. Is this really nescesary to make so many parts, or do you think that they only tape decorated it? There are many bone directions in this, perhaps this is why it was split up in so many parts. I was considering to use this for my dress projekt. Has anybody out there tryed it? Many greetings Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 8 10:18:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA8FIcx1024805 for ; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 10:18:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA8FHN4a020548 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 8 Nov 2004 08:17:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA8FHFq4099087; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 08:17:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from S3.cableone.net (smtp3.cableone.net [24.116.0.229]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA8FHCq4098943 for ; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 08:17:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from aelyna@cableone.net) Received: from Lillesoster (unverified [24.117.49.36]) by S3.cableone.net (CableOne SMTP Service S3) with ESMTP id 870878 for ; Mon, 08 Nov 2004 08:20:43 -0700 Message-ID: <003a01c4c5a7$3cd30850$6401a8c0@Lillesoster> From: "Aelyna the Faint" To: Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 08:25:53 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Abuse-Info: Send abuse complaints to abuse@cableone.net X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/577/Sun Nov 7 16:32:14 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/577/Sun Nov 7 16:32:14 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Italian Renaissance help X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id iA8FIcx1024805 Status: RO Greetings to the list, I am new to this list so please forgive me if I am asking a question that you have heard a thousand times. I am looking for information on outer garments for women of Italy during the 1450's. if anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated :) Aelyna _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 8 12:11:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA8HBMiR025989 for ; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 12:11:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA8HAN4a003188 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 8 Nov 2004 10:10:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA8HADq4090072; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 10:10:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (chori.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA8H9oq4089727 for ; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 10:09:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ldownward@chori.org) X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Sophos http://raeinternet.com/mpp Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP-TLS id 1623070 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 08 Nov 2004 09:09:45 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.0.0.040405 Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 09:09:43 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Threads From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20041107222600.00c520d0@pop8.sympatico.ca> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/577/Sun Nov 7 16:32:14 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/577/Sun Nov 7 16:32:14 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Nor have I in California. But I've seen it in stores before I get it in the mail sometimes. It isn't always consistent. LynnD > From: Dawn Luckham > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 22:28:27 -0500 > To: > Subject: [h-cost] Threads > > Penny, I'm a subscriber and haven't received this issue yet in the mail. > Perhaps different mailing areas are on different schedules? > Congratulations! > Dawn > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 8 15:09:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA8K97le027049 for ; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 15:09:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA8K854a024491 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 8 Nov 2004 13:08:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA8K7oq4034899; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 13:07:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop2a.ripco.com (root@pop2a.ripco.com [209.100.227.25]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA8K7kq4034784 for ; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 13:07:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zski@ripco.com) Received: from ripco.com (tcr115.dynip.ripco.net [209.100.226.115]) by pop2a.ripco.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA8K7ZlP009185 for ; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 14:07:40 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <418FD1F6.8010003@ripco.com> Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 14:07:18 -0600 From: zski User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <200411081906.iA8J57q6085102@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: <200411081906.iA8J57q6085102@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/578/Mon Nov 8 07:26:49 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/578/Mon Nov 8 07:26:49 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re::Threads X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I got my issue on Saturday, and yes, yuo were listed. Yay. Unfortunately, I do not have scanner. Sowwy. Wendy Z Chicago, IL _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 8 18:31:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA8NVW43028506 for ; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 18:31:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA8NUo4a016152 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 8 Nov 2004 16:30:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA8NUfq4093766; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 16:30:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA8NUdq4093700 for ; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 16:30:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE0D12E59D for ; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 17:30:35 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t3p316.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.221.62]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id DC508D3F5 for ; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 17:30:34 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Italian Renaissance help Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 17:30:39 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <003a01c4c5a7$3cd30850$6401a8c0@Lillesoster> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/578/Mon Nov 8 07:26:49 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/578/Mon Nov 8 07:26:49 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO 1436 http://www.louvre.fr/anglais/collec/peint/rf0766/peint_f.htm http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/cgi-bin/WebObjects.dll/CollectionPublisher .woa/wa/largeImage?workNumber=NG1436&collectionSection=work When I have more time I will see if I can find more. De __________________________________________ Greetings to the list, I am new to this list so please forgive me if I am asking a question that you have heard a thousand times. I am looking for information on outer garments for women of Italy during the 1450's. if anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated :) Aelyna _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 8 18:38:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA8NcKsw028543 for ; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 18:38:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA8Nbl4a016762 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 8 Nov 2004 16:37:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA8Nbfq4098172; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 16:37:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from S2.cableone.net (smtp2.cableone.net [24.116.0.228]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA8Nbbq4098133 for ; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 16:37:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from aelyna@cableone.net) Received: from Lillesoster (unverified [24.117.49.36]) by S2.cableone.net (CableOne SMTP Service S2) with ESMTP id 956352 for ; Mon, 08 Nov 2004 16:41:39 -0700 Message-ID: <00d201c4c5ed$25c27b00$6401a8c0@Lillesoster> From: "Aelyna the Faint" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Italian Renaissance help Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 16:46:19 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Abuse-Info: Send abuse complaints to abuse@cableone.net X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/578/Mon Nov 8 07:26:49 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/578/Mon Nov 8 07:26:49 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you :) Aelyna > 1436 > http://www.louvre.fr/anglais/collec/peint/rf0766/peint_f.htm > > http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/cgi-bin/WebObjects.dll/CollectionPublisher > .woa/wa/largeImage?workNumber=NG1436&collectionSection=work > > When I have more time I will see if I can find more. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 8 19:33:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA90Xbm7028822 for ; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 19:33:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA90Wn4a024270 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 8 Nov 2004 17:32:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA90Waq4038955; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 17:32:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail48-ash-R.bigfish.com (mail-ash.bigfish.com [206.16.192.253]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA90WPq4038750 for ; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 17:32:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alyxx.iannetta@ntscorp.com) Received: from mail48-ash.bigfish.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail48-ash-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5BBB483E2A for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 00:32:19 +0000 (UCT) X-BigFish: V Received: by mail48-ash (MessageSwitch) id 1099960339824361_11511; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 00:32:19 +0000 (UCT) Received: from pacifica.ntscorp.com (unknown [209.76.255.111]) by mail48-ash.bigfish.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 74792483D15 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 00:32:19 +0000 (UCT) Received: by PACIFICA with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) id ; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 16:23:23 -0800 Message-ID: From: Alyxx Iannetta To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 16:23:22 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/578/Mon Nov 8 07:26:49 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/578/Mon Nov 8 07:26:49 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: trick or treat X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I didn't see any Snow Whites, though Hmmmmmm, My little girl was a Snow White among a sea of other Disney princesses. LOL. It seems like there were a lot more Cinderella's and Belle's than anything else, though. I don't recall seeing another Snow White. I think that may have something to do with none of the big manufacturers making a decent Snow White gown. I looked at 6 different dresses and finally made one myself because they were all wrong in some way. Two companies even put big, red V shaped lace-up panels down the front. What the hell is that? LOL I live in the middle of a big city where everyone goes trick or treating at the malls and I don't think I saw a single home-made costume other than my daughter's. So different than when I was a kid. Granted, when I was a kid, a store-bought costume was a printed bag you tied up the back like a hospital gown with those vacuformed masks that would always cut your tongue when you stuck it through that little breathing hole... Ah... good times... Alyxx _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 8 20:08:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA918f3T029182 for ; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 20:08:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA917r4a029357 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 8 Nov 2004 18:07:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA917lq4061277; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 18:07:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail2-ash-R.bigfish.com (mail-ash.bigfish.com [206.16.192.253]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA917jq4061175 for ; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 18:07:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alyxx.iannetta@ntscorp.com) Received: from mail2-ash.bigfish.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail2-ash-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C0082B13CF for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 01:07:36 +0000 (UCT) X-BigFish: V Received: by mail2-ash.bigfish.com (MessageSwitch) id 109996245611921_17700; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 01:07:36 +0000 (UCT) Received: from pacifica.ntscorp.com (unknown [209.76.255.111]) by mail2-ash.bigfish.com (Postfix) with SMTP id B839E2B03F3 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 01:07:35 +0000 (UCT) Received: by PACIFICA with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) id ; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 16:58:39 -0800 Message-ID: From: Alyxx Iannetta To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 16:58:38 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/578/Mon Nov 8 07:26:49 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/578/Mon Nov 8 07:26:49 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: silk damask X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As for www.hyenaproductions.com, do you know any place to buy the same brocade fabrics for less? Have you tried the Silk Trading Company, http://www.silktrading.com? Their San Francisco store is absolutely jaw dropping. I did buy a nice crimson damask when I was there last. Their website isn't nearly as good as the store, but maybe they will swatch. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Silktradingco and hyena productions have much of the same merchandise... or I should say, similar merchandise. They both claim to exclusively manufacture their own products but someone is ripping someone else off somewhere. LOL I've found (again similar) other fabrics, same patterns-maybe different color combos, downtown in the LA fabric district for less than you'll find at either store. Alyxx _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 8 21:53:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA92rWN6029623 for ; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 21:53:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA92qp4a011481 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 8 Nov 2004 19:52:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA92qbq4021058; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 19:52:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA92qRq5020916 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 19:52:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-134.sonic.net [209.148.114.134]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iA92qOQX025732 for ; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 18:52:24 -0800 Message-ID: <419030E8.9050902@lavoltapress.com> Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 18:52:24 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: silk damask References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/578/Mon Nov 8 07:26:49 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/578/Mon Nov 8 07:26:49 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm not affiliated with either store except as a customer. I only know Hyena from their website. I know the Silk Trading Company from their local store, which is much larger than their own website or Hyena's. I don't find their fabrics to be identical. I don't know of great places to find most of the same fabrics supercheap, and I do shop around a fair amount. Going to LA for fabric is not an option for me. I'm in the same state, but about 500 miles away. And the travel and lodging expenses would negate any savings on yardage. Not to mention I'd lose hours in travel time; whereas I can get to any of the local fabric stores in about 45 minutes. I think in terms of a merchant who sells what I want at a price I can afford, versus a merchant who doesn't. I buy from the first type of merchant. But I see no reason to accuse the second merchant of being a "rip off." "Rip off" implies dishonesty. There is nothing dishonest about someone selling something you don't want; or something you do want at a price you won't pay, or charging more than discount stores in your own geographic area. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com >They both claim to exclusively >manufacture their own products but someone is ripping someone else off >somewhere. LOL > > >I've found (again similar) other fabrics, same patterns-maybe different >color combos, downtown in the LA fabric district for less than you'll find >at either store. > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 8 22:21:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA93LmgG029735 for ; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 22:21:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA93L14a014472 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 8 Nov 2004 20:21:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA93Kuq4039092; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 20:20:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail12.mdx.safepages.com (mail12.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.154.242]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA93Ksq4038937 for ; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 20:20:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail12.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 3FA79B991; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 03:20:40 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust76.tnt1.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.148.76]) by mail12.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 541EFB98A for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 03:20:38 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <00d901c4c60b$21a13750$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <419030E8.9050902@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: silk damask Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 21:20:56 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/578/Mon Nov 8 07:26:49 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/578/Mon Nov 8 07:26:49 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It seems to me that the standards for uniqueness of fabric are a bit more precise than we may think--I've seen strikingly similar fabrics, with the same basic design, using the same basic shading style, but when you put the two side by side it's clear that they're not copies. Inspired by one or the other, or both based on a third fabric, perhaps, but different enough to satisfy legalities and to be called unique or exclusive under the right circumstances. Even a difference in the colors used can be enough to call it exclusive, in some cases--say Clarence House makes a limited run of a fabric in a specific design, and to one store it sells ALL the gold-on-black fabric of that design, while selling other color combinations to many stores. The store that got all of that gold-on-black fabric has an exclusive. Not An Expert disclaimer, yada yada. -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 8 22:27:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA93RiUt029773 for ; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 22:27:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA93R84a014880 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 8 Nov 2004 20:27:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA93R4q4042224; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 20:27:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web81006.mail.yahoo.com (web81006.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.37.151]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id iA93R1q4042143 for ; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 20:27:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from altablue@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20041109032655.82277.qmail@web81006.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.227.116.195] by web81006.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 08 Nov 2004 19:26:55 PST Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 19:26:55 -0800 (PST) From: Heather Smart To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="0-930634510-1099970815=:82251" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/578/Mon Nov 8 07:26:49 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/578/Mon Nov 8 07:26:49 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: chance of a lifetime for 18th century clothing aficionados X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --0-930634510-1099970815=:82251 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, I am not sure this will fit this list, but thought I would forward it anyway. Mount Vernon is looking for costumed reenactors to make a visitor's center film. Hope it works out for someone. Heather Note: forwarded message attached. --0-930634510-1099970815=:82251 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --0-930634510-1099970815=:82251-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 9 04:43:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA99hPDN027576 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 04:43:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA99gX4a006210 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 9 Nov 2004 02:42:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA99gKq4016586; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 02:42:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from alpha2.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (alpha2.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.0.14]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA99gHq4016452 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 02:42:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 09:41:34 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] Flush toilets (WAS: Fairy tales and nursery rhymes) To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F40192C3C9B@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Flush toilets (WAS: Fairy tales and nursery rhymes) Thread-Index: AcTELayjfvpQlHfIS+CU2Hqfu2B6AwCEm6UA content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.20 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/578/Mon Nov 8 07:26:49 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/578/Mon Nov 8 07:26:49 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Oh, heck, next you're going to tell me Thos. Crapper didn't > invent the toilet! My cousins will be SO disappointed. Lauren If he didn't, he certainly manufactured some of the early ones judging by his name embossed on the water-tanks. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 9 05:17:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA9AHMK0027716 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 05:17:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA9AGl4a008193 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 9 Nov 2004 03:16:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA9AGgq4031627; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 03:16:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA9AGbq4031546 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 03:16:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bec0.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.192]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id A7DB2262873 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 11:16:24 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000501c4c645$347655b0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 11:16:40 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/578/Mon Nov 8 07:26:49 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/578/Mon Nov 8 07:26:49 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] masks X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Little off topic. 18th. of february there is going to be a masked ball at the royal opera in Copenhagen. Followed by a ball at the Pallais of Moltke. This is the very first time for such an event, and off cause i will go. Then i wondered how you make a mask. I was thinking about a half mask that only covers the eyes. I would like to make mine in the same material as my suit wich is green silk taffeta. Then i would like to embroider it with peacock feathers. What interlinning should i use? Would it be ok to use the iron on stuff? Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 9 06:55:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA9BtSAp028091 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 06:55:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA9Bsm4a015632 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 9 Nov 2004 04:54:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA9Bscq4071957; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 04:54:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m24.mx.aol.com (imo-m24.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA9Bsaq4071907 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 04:54:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.d8.18b8f7c9 (4222) for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 06:54:29 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 06:54:28 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] masks To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5034 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/578/Mon Nov 8 07:26:49 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/578/Mon Nov 8 07:26:49 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/9/2004 5:17:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: What interlinning should i use? Would it be ok to use the iron on stuff? I wouldn't simply because of what it might do to the silk taffeta--test a sample first, though, and see. I have used a base of buckram and glued the fabric on. I have also used a ready-made half mask as the base and glued the fabric on that. I know you do beautiful embroidery, Bjarne, but why not use REAL peacock feathers--say a small spray springing up from one corner? Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 9 07:30:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA9CUn7d028301 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 07:30:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA9CUG4a022488 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 9 Nov 2004 05:30:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA9CTvq4087604; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 05:29:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.117]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA9CTsq4087530 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 05:29:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sewinggoddess@att.net) Received: from 204.127.135.59 ([204.127.135.59]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13) with SMTP id <2004110912294911300d7blhe>; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 12:29:49 +0000 Received: from [24.26.111.46] by 204.127.135.59; Tue, 09 Nov 2004 12:29:49 +0000 From: sewinggoddess@att.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] masks Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 12:29:49 +0000 Message-Id: <110920041229.9024.4190B83D000220CD0000234021602806519C9C0A0B0B0109090207990A9C@att.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 18 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: c2V3aW5nZ29kZGVzc0BhdHQubmV0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/578/Mon Nov 8 07:26:49 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/578/Mon Nov 8 07:26:49 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just bought a plain fabric mask already formed and covered it with my own fabric and embellished from there. you can also make a mask form from paper mache and cover that as well... the possibilities are endless! Crissy -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" > Little off topic. > 18th. of february there is going to be a masked ball at the royal opera in > Copenhagen. Followed by a ball at the Pallais of Moltke. > This is the very first time for such an event, and off cause i will go. > Then i wondered how you make a mask. > I was thinking about a half mask that only covers the eyes. I would like to > make mine in the same material as my suit wich is green silk taffeta. Then i > would like to embroider it with peacock feathers. > What interlinning should i use? Would it be ok to use the iron on stuff? > > Bjarne > > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 9 09:20:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA9EKxiZ028756 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 09:20:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA9EKI4a000976 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 9 Nov 2004 07:20:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA9EJvq4039713; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 07:20:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail03.powweb.com (mail03.powweb.com [66.152.97.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA9EJsq4039686 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 07:19:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from megan@benchite.com) Received: from megan2 (pcp06952326pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net [69.140.8.214]) by mail03.powweb.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4597815C20 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 06:19:54 -0800 (PST) From: "Megan M." To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: chance of a lifetime for 18th century clothingaficionados Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 09:19:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Thread-Index: AcTGDBBiQkTEZz15TYCLuO8HBNa4VgAWwlTA In-Reply-To: <20041109032655.82277.qmail@web81006.mail.yahoo.com> Message-Id: <20041109141954.4597815C20@mail03.powweb.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/578/Mon Nov 8 07:26:49 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/578/Mon Nov 8 07:26:49 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There is no forwarded message - can you point us to the information? -Megan Heather wrote: I am not sure this will fit this list, but thought I would forward it anyway. Mount Vernon is looking for costumed reenactors to make a visitor's center film. Hope it works out for someone. Heather Note: forwarded message attached. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 9 14:59:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA9JxEct031766 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 14:59:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA9Jw94a007382 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 9 Nov 2004 12:58:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA9JunaL013859; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 12:56:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.194]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA9JulaL013826 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 12:56:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from joycebre@gmail.com) Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 34so249653rns for ; Tue, 09 Nov 2004 11:56:46 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=o9MgvyCZxk+C2AEbOyBOLWzziJLepf00rNfr6dGr0pzS+DAc54XroVJw11rnVlTQa3C2LcfydSih8uiY4xdBc0A71YQzX3st06ituyWPDWew0h8gLdV5KEj2doOAcfnNTHSFSWJZS9RTnU2p0BlxWTDTeHSwwlB5GBM4dcJ/as8= Received: by 10.38.10.71 with SMTP id 71mr379253rnj; Tue, 09 Nov 2004 11:56:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.38.179.57 with HTTP; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 11:56:46 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 11:56:46 -0800 From: Gianetta To: h-costume@net.indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] I'm going shopping in Sydney X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey all, Soon, I don't know when, but soon, I will be going to Sydney for about 3 months. While there, I would like shop shop shop. So, is there a place in Sydney that sells fabulous Aussie wool? What sort of price ranges does it come in? What else would someone who mostly does pre-1600 costuming, but also needs to buy a ton of Christmas presents want to look for there? thanks! Joyce _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 9 15:04:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA9K4FWs031793 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 15:04:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA9K3U4a007983 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 9 Nov 2004 13:03:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA9K3MaL019281; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 13:03:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail67-ash-R.bigfish.com (mail-ash.bigfish.com [206.16.192.253]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA9K3KaL019188 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 13:03:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alyxx.iannetta@ntscorp.com) Received: from mail67-ash.bigfish.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail67-ash-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EC013814EA for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 20:03:18 +0000 (UCT) X-BigFish: V Received: by mail67-ash (MessageSwitch) id 1100030596454037_21472; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 20:03:16 +0000 (UCT) Received: from pacifica.ntscorp.com (unknown [209.76.255.111]) by mail67-ash.bigfish.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E568C3814E5 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 20:03:15 +0000 (UCT) Received: by PACIFICA with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) id ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 11:54:14 -0800 Message-ID: From: Alyxx Iannetta To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 11:54:12 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Silk Damask X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Message: 6 Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 18:52:24 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: silk damask To: Historical Costume Message-ID: <419030E8.9050902@lavoltapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed I'm not affiliated with either store except as a customer. I only know Hyena from their website. I know the Silk Trading Company from their local store, which is much larger than their own website or Hyena's. I don't find their fabrics to be identical. I don't know of great places to find most of the same fabrics supercheap, and I do shop around a fair amount. Going to LA for fabric is not an option for me. I'm in the same state, but about 500 miles away. And the travel and lodging expenses would negate any savings on yardage. Not to mention I'd lose hours in travel time; whereas I can get to any of the local fabric stores in about 45 minutes. I think in terms of a merchant who sells what I want at a price I can afford, versus a merchant who doesn't. I buy from the first type of merchant. But I see no reason to accuse the second merchant of being a "rip off." "Rip off" implies dishonesty. There is nothing dishonest about someone selling something you don't want; or something you do want at a price you won't pay, or charging more than discount stores in your own geographic area. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com >They both claim to exclusively >manufacture their own products but someone is ripping someone else off >somewhere. LOL > >I've found (again similar) other fabrics, same patterns-maybe different >color combos, downtown in the LA fabric district for less than you'll find >at either store. > >> Fran, I was commenting on my own shopping experience - from ordering from Hyena online to shopping at Silk Trading Co.'s LA store, to shopping downtown LA. People on this list are from many countries and discuss shopping in many places I cannot get to. (I am jealous of those discussing the impending London trip) My comment on "ripping off" was not about price but about design, in the same way that clothing designers rip each other's designs off with small changes (or not) for their next season's line. For example, Hyena manufactures a silk taffeta with satin stripes woven in and embroidered with silk vines and velvet leaves. Seen on this page: http://www.hyenaproductions.com/store+taffeta+velvetembroidered.htm Silk Trading Co carries this same fabric in many of the same color ways and some additional color combos. During a trip downtown, I saw several other stores that carry this same fabric, too, many of which sold it for less than Silk Trading and Hyena. Since each of these vendors claim exclusivity of these fabrics, I am quite sure that they all vary in some small way - the shade of the leaf green or the satin stripe or whatever - so they can claim it is all their own, and they are correct. But someone, somewhere came up with the original design which has been "ripped off" and repeated by several different merchants probably getting them all made by the same mill. I make no moral judgment about this. It is part of the business. My only reason fro bringing it up is that if you see some fabulous fabric at one of the pricier vendors, you may find something achingly similar for less money at another vendor. It may not be an exact copy but will be close enough to satisfy your creative needs while helping your pocketbook. In general, though, downtown vendors who sell fabric of the same quality as Hyena, et al are not selling it "super cheap" as you say. It will save you some money but you won't find, say, a $100 Hyena taffeta for $20. Depending on your volume and what part of the season you're shopping in, it might be a significant savings. As for not being able to get to LA, if you see something you like at Silk Trading or Hyena, let me know and I may be able to pick it up for you downtown. Alyxx _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 9 15:09:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA9K96EN031810 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 15:09:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA9K894a008472 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 9 Nov 2004 13:08:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA9K77aL022457; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 13:07:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp813.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp813.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.170.83]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id iA9K5SaL021141 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 13:05:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from maggie.gene@justinanimator.com) Received: from unknown (HELO the-new-beast.justinanimator.com) (justin.barrett@sbcglobal.net@69.149.63.97 with login) by smtp813.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Nov 2004 20:04:52 -0000 Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.0.20041109140411.0d283f40@mail.justinanimator.com> X-Sender: maggie.gene@mail.justinanimator.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 14:04:21 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Genie Barrett Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Check out these 100-year-old *color* photographs X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Russia, pre WWI >http://www.gridenko.com/pg/index.htm > >See the sidebar for information on how these were taken....beautiful >stuff! Some of those might be of interest to the costume list folks. This was just forwarded to me. Beautiful pictures, and very interesting history. There are more pictures if you click on the link "The Empire that was Russia" Genie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 9 15:35:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA9KZn6Z031928 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 15:35:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA9KZ64a011415 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 9 Nov 2004 13:35:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA9KYtaL045057; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 13:34:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web50610.mail.yahoo.com (web50610.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.249]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id iA9KYqaL044947 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 13:34:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 2301 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Nov 2004 20:34:42 -0000 Message-ID: <20041109203441.2298.qmail@web50610.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.198.54.41] by web50610.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 09 Nov 2004 15:34:41 EST Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 15:34:41 -0500 (EST) From: Kathy Page To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200411091907.iA9J7oq4072348@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: masks X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Bjarne, Give me a couple of days to throw together a webpage for you. This is the 3rd or 4th request for information on Maskmaking and the history of the Venetian Carnevale inside of a week. I happen to teach classes on this subject. I make masks from just about anything, but concentrate on leather and papier mache for their flexibility and ease of use. My notes include discussion on other materials that can be used as well. Using matching fabrics shouldn't be a problem. Kathy > Then i wondered how you make a mask. > I was thinking about a half mask that only covers > the eyes. I would like to > make mine in the same material as my suit wich is > green silk taffeta. Then i > would like to embroider it with peacock feathers. > What interlinning should i use? Would it be ok to > use the iron on stuff? ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 9 15:39:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA9Kd8et031946 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 15:39:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA9Kbo4a011661 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 9 Nov 2004 13:37:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA9KbmaL047535; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 13:37:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-118.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA9KZfaL045621 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 13:35:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by mail.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E8D4425D5 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 16:07:08 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <41912A22.4060300@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 14:35:46 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Check out these 100-year-old *color* photographs References: <6.1.2.0.0.20041109140411.0d283f40@mail.justinanimator.com> In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20041109140411.0d283f40@mail.justinanimator.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Genie Barrett wrote: > Russia, pre WWI > >> http://www.gridenko.com/pg/index.htm >> >> See the sidebar for information on how these were taken....beautiful >> stuff! Some of those might be of interest to the costume list folks. > > > This was just forwarded to me. Beautiful pictures, and very interesting > history. There are more pictures if you click on the link "The Empire > that was Russia" Amazing images. I feel as if I could step right through into that world. Something about the light in them makes them seem more than real. And seeing the clothing and textiles in color... Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 9 16:25:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA9LP2nf032305 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 16:25:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA9LLZ4a016380 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 9 Nov 2004 14:21:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA9LLMaL083752; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 14:21:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web81009.mail.yahoo.com (web81009.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.37.154]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id iA9LKYaL082951 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 14:20:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from altablue@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20041109212024.88889.qmail@web81009.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.194.45.199] by web81009.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 09 Nov 2004 13:20:24 PST Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 13:20:24 -0800 (PST) From: Heather Smart To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: chance of a lifetime for 18th century clothing aficionados X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry! My first try at this did not work. Here is the email text as I recieved it: Heather >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you've ever been to Colonial Williamsburg, you may have seen the movie they show in the visitor center.That movie was shot in the early 1950's, and is still going strong.Now Mount Vernon wants to do one.So if you want to have your grandchildren point you out in a movie to your great-grandchildren when then take them to Mount Vernon fifty years from now, note well the following:"Mount Vernon is producing a new short film on the life of GeorgeWashington, "Father Of His Country" for their new visitors center. Directed by Ron Maxwell ("Gettysburg", "Gods & Generals"), the project will befilming in Virginia the first two weeks of February and again at the end of April / beginning of May.To apply, go to this website:http://www.FatherOfHisCountry.comThere are parts for both military and civilian reenactors / livinghistorians. The largest scene in the winter shoot will be a re-creation of the Battle of Trenton, being filmed the weekend of February 5-6 in Yorktown, VA.We are look! ing for approximately 200 reenactors with early War Continental and/or and Virginia militia impressions for the Trenton scenes. This is PAID WORK. The pay will be based on a "gear bump" system - those who have authentic clothing /uniforms and weaponry will receive a higher rate of pay than those who do not have gear.The Director also wants approximately 150 Hessians in the Trenton battle. As there aren't this many reenactors doing a Hessian impression in the whole USA, this will be a challenge (to say the least!) and wardrobe willinevitably have to be provided. However, if anyone is interested indeveloping a Hessian impression for the film, we are putting together some potential package deals, workshops, etc to make this more tenable for those who are interested.Civilian scenes will include the Virginia House of Burgesses & Continental Congress, where we're seeking look-alikes for various historical personages, and a couple of large street scenes being shot in the Spring.The sprin! g shoot will feature the surrender at Yorktown (approximately 500 reenactors needed), the French & Indian War Battle of Monongahela("Braddock's Defeat") and the scene at Newburgh, NY where Continentalofficers tried to persuade Washington to be king -- so the more folks with officer impressions as we can round up, the better.There is LIMITED wardrobe available so we are looking for people who have some if not ALL the right gear. Those with correct uniforms and/or gear will receive a bonus, according to what it is you have and what of it can be used. We would also be interested in renting same from you should you have extra equippage. To participate, you need to send us a photo, preferably of you in your 18th century clothing. On the website, you can upload up to 5 photographs showing different impressions. If you don't have digital copies of your photos or have access to a scanner, you can also mail photos and your resume to:Piedmont Films Attn:Russ Richards-Historical Entertain! ment508 Kendrick Lane Front Royal VA. 22630Best wishes,Kathryn CoombsDeputy CEO / Historical Entertainment, LLCCivilian Coordinator" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 9 16:41:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA9LfKFV032423 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 16:41:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA9LdB4a018261 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 9 Nov 2004 14:39:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA9Ld4aL097865; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 14:39:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA9Ld0aL097709 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 14:39:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.145.22]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id iA9LcYw9009418 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 08:38:40 +1100 Message-ID: <001a01c4c6a4$54e5d0a0$1691d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] I'm going shopping in Sydney Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 08:37:17 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gianetta" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 6:56 AM Subject: [h-cost] I'm going shopping in Sydney > Hey all, > Soon, I don't know when, but soon, I will be going to Sydney for about > 3 months. While there, I would like shop shop shop. So, is there a > place in Sydney that sells fabulous Aussie wool? What sort of price > ranges does it come in? What else would someone who mostly does > pre-1600 costuming, but also needs to buy a ton of Christmas presents > want to look for there? > thanks! > Joyce Only really good spot I know of is fine wools direct, You can see their website at http://www.finewoolsdirect.com.au/ they aren't limited to wool but that's what they mostly focus on. Aussie wool it may have been but who knows Australia does not process it's own wool in commercial quantities, virtually all of it is exported as raw fleece. Plus the regular (countrywide) chain fabric shops Lincraft (www.lincraft.com.au/) and Spotlight (www.spotlight.com.au/), and Home Yardage (which doesn't have a website, it is a factory outlet store and is therefore a bit hit and miss about it's bargains) Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole in OR in Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra, Australia ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 9 16:44:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA9Litbu032459 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 16:44:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA9Lh44a018629 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 9 Nov 2004 14:43:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA9LgwaL001147; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 14:43:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m25.mx.aol.com (imo-m25.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.6]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA9LgtaL000988 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 14:42:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.77.380c24d4 (657) for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 16:42:27 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <77.380c24d4.2ec293c3@aol.com> Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 16:42:27 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Check out these 100-year-old *color* photographs To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5034 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/9/2004 3:38:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, dawn@reddawn.net writes: I feel as if I could step right through into that world. Something about the light in them makes them seem more than real. I saw an exhibit of these at the Library of Congress several years ago. Yes, they were amazing, something about the color process made them very vivid, and they don't look exactly like modern photographs, of course. We have gotten so used to seeing modern photos that I think we forget they are not the real thing. That may be why these images seem to have that "more than real" look. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 9 16:54:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA9Ls9du032516 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 16:54:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA9LqR4a019635 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 9 Nov 2004 14:52:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA9LqMaL008483; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 14:52:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-118.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.118]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA9LqKaL008365 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 14:52:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by mail.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01441425D5 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 17:23:21 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <41913C01.8070604@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 15:52:01 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Tulsa linen "museum" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Has anyone ever been to this place? This is the sum total of information I can find on it. "International Linen Registry Museum & Gift Shop 4107 S. Yale Ave. (inside Tulsa Promenade Mall) (918) 622-5223 Ancient linens from around the world are on display. Needle and textile arts demonstrations and seminars are offered. Open Monday-Saturday, 10 a.m.-9 p.m.; Sunday, noon-6 p.m." We're looking at taking a long weekend in Tulsa to visit friends before the holiday season and are looking for historical themed tourist things to do. Would appreciate hearing from anyone who might have seen this place. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 9 16:57:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA9LvOqJ032537 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 16:57:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA9LuN4a020042 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 9 Nov 2004 14:56:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA9LuHaL011476; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 14:56:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA9LuCaL011397 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 14:56:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.145.22]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id iA9Lu8Nt012076 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 08:56:09 +1100 Message-ID: <002901c4c6a6$c371c360$1691d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001a01c4c6a4$54e5d0a0$1691d6cb@ewalpole> Subject: Re: [h-cost] I'm going shopping in Sydney Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 08:54:41 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO While looking for Home Yardage's website I found this guide to fabric shopping in Sydney it's aimed at the SCA college at Sydney Uni and it's got the addresses for all of the fabric shops. http://www.sca.org.au/st_ursula/fabric.html HTH Elizabeth > > Hey all, > > Soon, I don't know when, but soon, I will be going to Sydney for about > > 3 months. While there, I would like shop shop shop. So, is there a > > place in Sydney that sells fabulous Aussie wool? What sort of price > > ranges does it come in? What else would someone who mostly does > > pre-1600 costuming, but also needs to buy a ton of Christmas presents > > want to look for there? > > thanks! > > Joyce > > Only really good spot I know of is fine wools direct, You can see their > website at http://www.finewoolsdirect.com.au/ they aren't limited to wool > but that's what they mostly focus on. Aussie wool it may have been but who > knows Australia does not process it's own wool in commercial quantities, > virtually all of it is exported as raw fleece. Plus the regular > (countrywide) chain fabric shops Lincraft (www.lincraft.com.au/) and > Spotlight (www.spotlight.com.au/), and Home Yardage (which doesn't have a > website, it is a factory outlet store and is therefore a bit hit and miss > about it's bargains) > Elizabeth > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ---- > Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole > in OR in > Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra, Australia > ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 9 17:01:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA9M15pI032550 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 17:01:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA9Lww4a020292 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 9 Nov 2004 14:58:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA9LwsaL013534; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 14:58:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from demon.comcen.com.au (demon.comcen.com.au [203.23.236.89]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA9LvGaM012134 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 14:57:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from karinne@spin.net.au) Received: from demon.comcen.com.au (localhost.comcen.com.au [127.0.0.1]) by demon.comcen.com.au (8.12.11/8.12.3) with ESMTP id iA9Lv0Dd016434; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 08:57:00 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from karinne@spin.net.au) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by demon.comcen.com.au (8.12.11/8.12.3/Submit) id iA9Lv0QL016417; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 08:57:00 +1100 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: demon.comcen.com.au: nobody set sender to karinne@spin.net.au using -f Received: from www-cache0.usyd.edu.au (www-cache0.usyd.edu.au [129.78.64.100]) by webmail.spin.net.au (IMP) with HTTP for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 08:56:59 +1100 Message-ID: <1100037419.41913d2c0222b@webmail.spin.net.au> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 08:57:00 +1100 From: karinne@spin.net.au To: Gianetta Subject: Re: [h-cost] I'm going shopping in Sydney References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.1 X-Originating-IP: 129.78.64.100 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: h-costume@net.indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Joyce, Firstly, as I am curious why will you be in Sydney? Secondly shopping: One of our College members wrote a fantastic article on the fabric shops of Sydney you can find it here: http://www.sca.org.au/st_ursula/fabric.html Unfortunately we don't sell a lot of dress weight Australian wool, as we ship our raw product off to other countries to be made into cloth, and so it is just as expensive to buy wool in Australia as it is elsewhere and in anywhere other than the major cities it is hard to find. One shop that Ildaria does not mention is Fantasy Fabrics, on Commonwealth St in Surry Hills, just around the corner from E&M Greenfield. This shop sells designer fabrics, and Italian imported wools and sometimes you can find things on special. Birka Traders is in Marrickville if you do really early, e.g. Viking and Saxon they sell jewellery and metal items by order. Unfortunately their websit eis down. Otherwise there's some good bead shops: The Bead Shop, Enmore Rd, Enmore One (I forget the name) in the Rocks, in the wooden building next to the Rocks markets. Go down there any weekend and ask the people on the stalls at the markets. Photios Brothers, Druitt St, Sydney. Near Town Hall. Sells buttons and notions and all sorts of interesting things. There are some other places depending on your interests, including a millinery supply shop, a calligraphers (if you are into that) a leather supply shop, and some other things that I am forgetting this morning at work. Happy to give you more help when you arrive. I live in the Inner West of Sydney and work at the University of Sydney so I'm reasonably central. Cheers, Karinne Quoting Gianetta : > Hey all, > Soon, I don't know when, but soon, I will be going to Sydney for about > 3 months. While there, I would like shop shop shop. So, is there a > place in Sydney that sells fabulous Aussie wool? What sort of price > ranges does it come in? What else would someone who mostly does > pre-1600 costuming, but also needs to buy a ton of Christmas presents > want to look for there? > thanks! > Joyce > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 9 17:14:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iA9MEwmu032682 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 17:14:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA9M974a022368 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 9 Nov 2004 15:09:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA9M8xaL021625; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 15:09:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iA9M8qaM021523 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 15:08:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-153.sonic.net [209.148.113.153]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iA9M8n3t023502 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 14:08:50 -0800 Message-ID: <41913FF4.5020301@lavoltapress.com> Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 14:08:52 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Silk Damask References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > >Fran, > > >My comment on "ripping off" was not about price but about design, in the >same way that clothing designers rip each other's designs off with small >changes (or not) for their next season's line. > > I am sure that if this season's hot look in decorating fabrics is declared to be big chartreuse flowers with black leaves, a number of manufacturers get busy producing fabrics that have big chartreuse flowers with black leaves. Possibly at different prices. And probably similar enough (even if they don't look exactly alike) that a consumer who wants that "look" can find several fabrics that would do. Just like, if chartreuse miniskirts are in lots of companies will make them. But I still think the phrase "rip off" implies some illegal and/or unethical action. I'm not even sure "copy" is correct. >For example, Hyena manufactures a silk taffeta with satin stripes woven in >and embroidered with silk vines and velvet leaves. Seen on this page: >http://www.hyenaproductions.com/store+taffeta+velvetembroidered.htm > > I may well be missing something on a quick look, but I don't see any statement that either Hyena manufactures this fabric or that it is an exclusive. The Silk Trading Company's statement http://www.silktrading.com/stcTextilesHome.aspx says that they design fabrics and have them manufactured. But they do not actually claim to design and manufacture _all_ their stock. Merely their own "collection," which could be only one line of their stock, or several, but not all of it. I don't know how the STC actually works. But it could be like many department stores. Department stores do things like manufacture their own separate collections of petites, plus sizes, towels, whatever, with their own label, but they also sell other clothes with other manufacturers' labels. And they claim to have "exclusives"--of their own lines, which I think most consumers understand. Also, saying they manufacture a design is not a claim that they don't sell it to anyone else as well as carrying it themselves. >During a trip downtown, I saw several other >stores that carry this same fabric, too, many of which sold it for less than >Silk Trading and Hyena. Since each of these vendors claim exclusivity of >these fabrics, > I think you have to take their statements literally, legalistically, and not broadly. However, I'm not involved with either company. If anyone is really interested I'd suggest contacting them both and asking what, in fact their policies are and what any of their statements as to manufacture or exclusivity really mean. >But someone, somewhere came up >with the original design which has been "ripped off" and repeated by several >different merchants probably getting them all made by the same mill. > > I'm not sure it's one ur-design that everyone copies, and I doubt all textile manufacturers use the same mill ... Anyone know how the textile industry works, instead of speculating? >My only >reason fro bringing it up is that if you see some fabulous fabric at one of >the pricier vendors, you may find something achingly similar for less money >at another vendor. > As far as I can tell, the average sewer in the US has a dismal brick-and-mortar choice between Wal-Mart and Jo-Ann's. Online fabric stores are a great boon, but still, only a small portion of the fabrics manufactured are sold there. I live in an area rich in fabric stores, most pretty upscale. There's also a local (or bigger?) chain called Discount Fabrics, which sells mostly vaguely labeled plain fabrics, not all that great but cheap, plus some fairly bizarre ones (purple leopard faux fur and suchlike). There are a few good online discount stores but still . . . Well, what I'm getting at is I live in a really good area for buying fabric and I, personally, am still not terribly likely to find "the same thing cheaper elsewhere." Unless it's a real basic. I find fabric I like, sure. I'm always finding fabric I like. But it might look nothing like a fabric I decided was too expensive for me. > >As for not being able to get to LA, if you see something you like at Silk >Trading or Hyena, let me know and I may be able to pick it up for you >downtown. > > > > Thanks for the offer but . . . I've never had any luck with other people buying fabric for me. Or clothes, for that matter. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 9 19:38:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAA0ctsh001669 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 19:38:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAA0c84a007228 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 9 Nov 2004 17:38:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAA0bqaL031518; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 17:37:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out010.verizon.net (out010pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.133]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAA0bnaL031468 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 17:37:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jeanine@woollycat.net) Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([68.239.40.159]) by out010.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.06 201-253-122-130-106-20030910) with ESMTP id <20041110003748.IYDA25072.out010.verizon.net@[127.0.0.1]> for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 18:37:48 -0600 Message-ID: <4191635C.2060905@woollycat.net> Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 19:39:56 -0500 From: "Jeanine E. Swick" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040803 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <200411092211.iA9MBKaM023429@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: <200411092211.iA9MBKaM023429@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out010.verizon.net from [68.239.40.159] at Tue, 9 Nov 2004 18:36:59 -0600 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 888 RE: Silk Damask X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Something my daughter learned when she was working at a fabric store on why pricing is so different for something that looked the same at different places: The manufacturers have to do multiple runs to get the registration and color balances right on the presses for printing the fabric. So the first run is "Let's see if we're in the ballpark" and that ends up at the discount stores. The second run is "Hey that's not so bad, but not quite right" and ends up in the chain fabric stores. The third (or higher) "It's perfect" then ends up in the high end stores. This was from the buyer of the decorator fabrics. I would think that something similar holds for fashion fabrics. Jeanine in MA _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 9 19:56:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAA0ugho001838 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 19:56:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAA0tq4a008550 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 9 Nov 2004 17:55:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAA0tnmN042809; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 17:55:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.76]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAA0s6aL041613 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 17:54:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from stilskin@netspace.net.au) Received: from localhost (sprinkle.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.77]) by mail.netspace.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32B06D0CDA for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 11:53:49 +1100 (EST) Received: from 220-253-119-121.VIC.netspace.net.au (220-253-119-121.VIC.netspace.net.au [220.253.119.121]) by webmail.netspace.net.au (IMP) with HTTP for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 11:53:48 +1100 Message-ID: <1100048028.4191669caa26a@webmail.netspace.net.au> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 11:53:48 +1100 From: stilskin@netspace.net.au To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] I'm going shopping in Sydney MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Soon, I don't know when, but soon, I will be going to Sydney for about > > 3 months. While there, I would like shop shop shop. So, is there a > > place in Sydney No. Get on a plane and fly to Melbourne and find the Job Warehouse at the top end of Bourke Street, an old business ran by a cantankerous old family that has not re-arranged its stock in at least 40 years (there is a dusty bold of green Miller shirt fabric in the window). Imagine the LA garment district shoved into one old building that has only had one alteration in the last two generations, a No Smoking sign. In short, if it is not at the Job Warehouse, it does not exist. You just have to be willing to barter (argue, actually), seeing they don't even know how much they paid for the stuff and little interest in serving people who do not know what they want; and climb over bolts and racks and whatever else has collapsed in some doorway -- that is if they are in a good mood on the day you visit and allow you go go back beyond the front room, -C. ------------------------------------------------------------ This email was sent from Netspace Webmail: http://www.netspace.net.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 9 22:27:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAA3RaBN002487 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 22:27:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAA3Qp4a020559 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 9 Nov 2004 20:26:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAA3Qgg2049335; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 20:26:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp806.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp806.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.185]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id iAA3Qfg2049318 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 20:26:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net) Received: from unknown (HELO lazear1) (cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net@67.118.230.145 with login) by smtp806.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Nov 2004 03:26:40 -0000 Message-ID: <003601c4c6d5$1ab834f0$0701a8c0@lazear1> From: "Cabbage Rose Costumes" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20041109203441.2298.qmail@web50610.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: masks Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 19:26:44 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ohhh I'd love to see it. I just returned from Venice and the mask-making there is magnificent. I bought mine from a true mask artist, rather than just from a street vendor, as some of those, while beautiful, are made inexpensively in China. I just felt I wanted to support the actual artists who do this. It's an amazing thing to see them everywhere, shop after shop of gorgeous masks. I've got one in crafted leather and one in papier mache. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none: be able for thine enemy rather in power than use, and keep thy friend under thy own life's key: be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..." W. Shakespeare ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathy Page" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 12:34 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: masks > Hi Bjarne, > > Give me a couple of days to throw together a webpage > for you. This is the 3rd or 4th request for > information on Maskmaking and the history of the > Venetian Carnevale inside of a week. I happen to teach > classes on this subject. I make masks from just about > anything, but concentrate on leather and papier mache > for their flexibility and ease of use. My notes > include discussion on other materials that can be used > as well. Using matching fabrics shouldn't be a > problem. > > Kathy > >> Then i wondered how you make a mask. >> I was thinking about a half mask that only covers >> the eyes. I would like to >> make mine in the same material as my suit wich is >> green silk taffeta. Then i >> would like to embroider it with peacock feathers. >> What interlinning should i use? Would it be ok to >> use the iron on stuff? > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 10 00:45:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAA5jPbw003085 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 00:45:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAA5h050001416 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 9 Nov 2004 22:44:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAA5S9g2017951; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 22:28:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f30.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.80]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAA5S7g2017894 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 22:28:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 21:28:01 -0800 Received: from 129.244.96.35 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 05:27:11 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.96.35] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 23:27:11 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Nov 2004 05:28:01.0787 (UTC) FILETIME=[0BE9DCB0:01C4C6E6] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Tulsa linen "museum" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: Dawn >Has anyone ever been to this place? This is the sum total of information >I can find on it.... Yup. Depending on what's on display it can be really interesting. It's not very large, set up in a storefront in the Promenade Mall. They change out the displays every few months or so. I'm not sure what they are showing right now. Marc _________________________________________________________________ On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 10 09:45:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAAEj8u9002352 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:45:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAAEiA4a002119 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:44:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAAEhng2069626; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:43:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m-smtp-1.cdc.gov (smtpgw.cdc.gov [198.246.97.18]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAAEhkg2069538 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:43:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from NBD2@CDC.GOV) Received: from mcdc-us-bis.cdc.gov ([158.111.6.114]) by m-smtp-1.cdc.gov with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id WP89CCAC; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:42:01 -0500 Received: from m-ncid-1.NCID.CDC.GOV ([158.111.223.50]) by mcdc-us-bis.cdc.gov with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:41:47 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6603.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:41:47 -0500 Message-ID: <51A3B7155A485548A47D068A9793C4FF059454CF@m-ncid-1.ncid.cdc.gov> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: period seam finishing Thread-Index: AcTHM2eSIPSnPmPNSgGAPRMbpbnSbQ== From: "Ferguson, Natalie" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Nov 2004 14:41:47.0481 (UTC) FILETIME=[67F86C90:01C4C733] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] period seam finishing X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2047174707==" Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============2047174707== content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 RGVhciBmb2xrcywNCiANCk1pZ2h0IGFueW9uZSBrbm93IHdoZXJlIGluc3RydWN0aW9ucyBmb3Ig ZmluaXNoaW5nIHNlYW1zIG1pZ2h0IGJlIGZvdW5kPyBBbSB3YW50aW5nIHRvIG1ha2UgbmlnaHRk cmVzc2VzL2NoZW1pc2VzIGluIDEpIFJlZ2VuY3kgYW5kIDIpIGNpcmNhIDE4ODAgZmFzaGlvbiBh bmQgd291bGQgcmVhbGx5IGxpa2UgdGhlIGludGVyaW9ycyB0byBmZWVsIGFzIHBlcmlvZCBhcyB0 aGUgZXh0ZXJpb3JzLg0KIA0KSSBoYXZlIGEgY29weSBvZiB0aGUgV29ya3dvbWFuJ3MgR3VpZGUs IGJ1dCBpdCdzIHBvc3QtUmVnZW5jeSwgcGx1cyBpdCdzIHBhY2tlZCBhd2F5IGR1ZSB0byBob3Vz ZSByZXBhaXJzIHdoZXJlIEkgY2FuJ3QgZ2V0IHRvIGl0IHRvbyBlYXNpbHkgPGc+LCBhbmQgaGF2 ZSBhbGwga2luZHMgb2YgcmVwcmludCBzZXdpbmcgYm9va3MgYW5kIGZhc2hpb24gaGlzdG9yeSBi b29rcywgYnV0IG5vbmUgb2YgdGhlbSByZWFsbHkgY292ZXIgdGhlc2UgdHlwZXMgb2YgZGV0YWls cyEgVGhlbiB0b28gSSBkb24ndCBrbm93IGhvdyB0aGUgYWR2ZW50IG9mIHRoZSBzZXdpbmcgbWFj aGluZSB3b3VsZCd2ZSBhZmZlY3RlZCBzZWFtIGZpbmlzaGluZyBieSAxODgwLg0KIA0KUXVpY2sg bm90ZTogYW0gb25lIG9mIHRob3NlIGx1cmtlcnM7IHlvdSBhbGwgaGF2ZSBzdWNoIGEgbmljZSBv bmxpbmUgY29tbXVuaXR5ISBBbSBhIGZhc2hpb24gbG92ZXIgc2luY2UgSSB3YXMgYSBiaXR0eSBr aWQgYnV0IGRpZG4ndCBzdGFydCBzZXdpbmcgdW50aWwgSSBib3VnaHQgdHdvIHRyZWFkbGUgc2V3 aW5nIG1hY2hpbmVzIHRoaXMgcGFzdCB5ZWFyLiBUaGV5IHNldyBzbyBlYXNpbHkgYW5kIG5pY2Vs eSB0aGF0IGJlZm9yZSBJIGtuZXcgaXQsIHdhcyBob29rZWQuIEl0J3MgYSByZWFsbHkgY29vbCBm ZWVsaW5nIHRvIHdvcmsgb24gYSBwaWVjZSBvbiBvbmUgb2YgdGhlIG1hY2hpbmVzIGFuZCByZWFs aXplIHRoYXQgaXQncyBsaWtlbHkgc29tZW9uZSBlbHNlIGRpZCBzb21ldGhpbmcgcXVpdGUgc2lt aWxhciB5ZWFycyBhbmQgeWVhcnMgYWdvLg0KIA0KVGhhbmtzIGZvciBhbnkgYWR2aWNlLCANCiAN Ck5hdGFsaWUgaW4gS1kNCg== --===============2047174707== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --===============2047174707==-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 10 11:08:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAAG8UaZ002863 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 11:08:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAAG2o4a008964 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:02:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAAG2dg2021154; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:02:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAAG2ag3021090 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:02:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-189.sonic.net [209.148.113.189]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iAAG2Ysm026899 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 08:02:35 -0800 Message-ID: <41923B9C.9000903@lavoltapress.com> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 08:02:36 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] period seam finishing References: <51A3B7155A485548A47D068A9793C4FF059454CF@m-ncid-1.ncid.cdc.gov> In-Reply-To: <51A3B7155A485548A47D068A9793C4FF059454CF@m-ncid-1.ncid.cdc.gov> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Am wanting to make nightdresses/chemises in 1) Regency and 2) circa 1880 fashion and would really like the interiors to feel as period as the exteriors. > > I don't know of any primary sources for pre-Victorian stitches and seam finishes other than the _Workwoman's Guide_. IMO stitches and seams would have changed less than designs/patterns since the Regency. > >I have a copy of the Workwoman's Guide, but it's post-Regency, plus it's packed away due to house repairs where I can't get to it too easily , and have all kinds of reprint sewing books and fashion history books, but none of them really cover these types of details! Then too I don't know how the advent of the sewing machine would've affected seam finishing by 1880. > > > > My new anthology _Fashions of the Gilded Age_ has an 87-page sewing manual in Volume 2. All the information and illustrations are from late 1870s and early 1880s sources. It includes instructions for the stitches and seams used for plain sewing, and a section on making nightdresses and other personal linens. The nightdress patterns are in Volume 1, along with their assembly instructions. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming Two new books on women's clothing 1877-1882 http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 10 11:21:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAAGLonT002906 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 11:21:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAAGG64a010232 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:16:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAAGFxg2031103; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:16:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id iAAGFtg2031055 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:15:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 23967 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2004 16:17:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO webmail.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com with SMTP; 10 Nov 2004 16:17:24 -0000 Received: from 24.4.69.40 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com); by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 08:15:55 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1060.24.4.69.40.1100103355.squirrel@24.4.69.40> In-Reply-To: <51A3B7155A485548A47D068A9793C4FF059454CF@m-ncid-1.ncid.cdc.gov> References: <51A3B7155A485548A47D068A9793C4FF059454CF@m-ncid-1.ncid.cdc.gov> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 08:15:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] period seam finishing From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a X-Mailer: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Dear folks, > > Might anyone know where instructions for finishing seams might be found? > Am wanting to make nightdresses/chemises in 1) Regency and 2) circa 1880 > fashion and would really like the interiors to feel as period as the > exteriors. The one book I thought of that might help for the Regency period is this book: Costume Close-up: Clothing Construction and Pattern, 1750-1790 Linda Baumgarten, Florine Carr, John Watson It is slightly earlier than Regency but there is a chemise in it that my friend reproduced and it came out looking very authentic. And as someone said, the stitches would not have changed that much and the book has some wonderful VERY close-up pictures that show stitching and construction. As for the 1880's, I can speak to how chemise edges were finished, but any actual outer garments I have seen (mostly at antique fashion expos) didn't have finished edges. They used pinking shears to cut the fabric and they hid their edges under trims or other layers of fabric. At least that was what I observed. Hope that helps! Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 10 11:36:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAAGa7Ao003058 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 11:36:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAAGZ44a012246 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:35:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAAGYxg2045713; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:35:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAAGYug3045664 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:34:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-189.sonic.net [209.148.113.189]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iAAGYtxU002217 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 08:34:56 -0800 Message-ID: <41924332.7090703@lavoltapress.com> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 08:34:58 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] period seam finishing References: <51A3B7155A485548A47D068A9793C4FF059454CF@m-ncid-1.ncid.cdc.gov> <1060.24.4.69.40.1100103355.squirrel@24.4.69.40> In-Reply-To: <1060.24.4.69.40.1100103355.squirrel@24.4.69.40> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Do you mean the 1780s? Fran Lavolta Press Two new books on 1870s and 1880s clothing http://www.lavoltapress.com > >As for the 1880's, I can speak to how chemise edges were finished, but any >actual outer garments I have seen (mostly at antique fashion expos) didn't >have finished edges. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 10 12:10:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAAHAlX7003370 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:10:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAAH9t4a016365 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:09:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAAH9jg2075362; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:09:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web51402.mail.yahoo.com (web51402.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.181]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id iAAH9fg2075251 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:09:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ivycircle@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 8070 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Nov 2004 17:09:36 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=kPHK4WCV+7dVOJ3AXO3ujTNZLSFAAspPVtyxw0GIcLeJa+IYp0QjbwHQKCOK+JptTi7ReVCAUNz/VECzFXkZqTH9cQamx2RJPMfyqYKtloRSkMdEKoQrQPstwQPYKSB7tx0a/eZ5b8d8jqXuyjF2GPFke8atIwZesePtJFfKacI= ; Message-ID: <20041110170936.8067.qmail@web51402.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.240.135.215] by web51402.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:09:36 PST Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:09:36 -0800 (PST) From: ~Angelique To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200411092211.iA9MBKaN023429@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Maskmaking X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am very excited to see this information. I love masks! Keep us all posted :-) Angelique Message: 4 Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 15:34:41 -0500 (EST) From: Kathy Page Subject: [h-cost] Re: masks To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: <20041109203441.2298.qmail@web50610.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Bjarne, Give me a couple of days to throw together a webpage for you. This is the 3rd or 4th request for information on Maskmaking and the history of the Venetian Carnevale inside of a week. I happen to teach classes on this subject. I make masks from just about anything, but concentrate on leather and papier mache for their flexibility and ease of use. My notes include discussion on other materials that can be used as well. Using matching fabrics shouldn't be a problem. Kathy > Then i wondered how you make a mask. > I was thinking about a half mask that only covers > the eyes. I would like to > make mine in the same material as my suit wich is > green silk taffeta. Then i > would like to embroider it with peacock feathers. > What interlinning should i use? Would it be ok to > use the iron on stuff? --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 10 12:20:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAAHKAHl003426 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:20:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAAHJL4a017285 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:19:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAAHJHg2082869; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:19:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail11.mdx.safepages.com (mail11.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAAHJEg2082670 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:19:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 46ED1A0C95; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 17:19:05 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust101.tnt1.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.148.101]) by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id AF326A0C62 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 17:19:02 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <021701c4c749$698d3b60$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <51A3B7155A485548A47D068A9793C4FF059454CF@m-ncid-1.ncid.cdc.gov><1060.24.4.69.40.1100103355.squirrel@24.4.69.40> <41924332.7090703@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] period seam finishing Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 11:19:16 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In addition to Fran's books, you might want to try: http://www.vintagesewing.info/19th.html This is from 1893, but A) I'd be surprised if construction techniques changed too much between 1880 and 1893 and B) it's free! -E House PS--I know this question has been asked before, but I can't remember the answer... Fran and other published authors, do you make less on a book if we order through it Amazon? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 10 13:41:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAAIfuXt004378 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 13:41:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAAIfG4a000630 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 10 Nov 2004 11:41:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAAIeWg2053442; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 11:40:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAAIdpg3052518 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 11:39:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id iAAIepVF004371 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 13:40:51 -0500 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20041110103617.02dd12f8@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:39:39 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance In-Reply-To: <51A3B7155A485548A47D068A9793C4FF059454CF@m-ncid-1.ncid.cdc .gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Treadle sewing machines X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I had a treadle machine once and absolutely loved it. I was emotionally attached to it in a way I'll never be attached to my modern power sewing machines. With the treadle machine, I was part of the process, not just somebody pushing fabric under a needle while the machine does it's thing. Someday I hope to get another treadle machine. Katie >Am a fashion lover since I was a bitty kid but didn't start sewing until I >bought two treadle sewing machines this past year. They sew so easily and >nicely that before I knew it, was hooked. It's a really cool feeling to >work on a piece on one of the machines and realize that it's likely >someone else did something quite similar years and years ago. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 10 13:56:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAAIumbu004624 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 13:56:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAAIu14a004784 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 10 Nov 2004 11:56:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAAItrg2067006; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 11:55:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065d05.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065d05.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.249]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAAItng2066939 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 11:55:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hardcorps@earthlink.net) Received: from grover.psp.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.78.249]) by pop-a065d05.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CRxdF-00039T-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:55:49 -0800 Message-ID: <6052423.1100112948976.JavaMail.root@grover.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 11:55:48 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: Frank and Tracy Thallas To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Treadle sewing machines Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is ranch country, and electricity wasn't widely available until the fifties. I got my shiny Singer treadle, 1922 model, complete with a 1926 Singer handbook and a 1940s "save money for the war effort" extension service booklet at a resale shop, and I love them dearly.... with the right needle, you can sew through anything short of concrete with them!! Liadain -----Original Message----- From: Katie Pleasance Sent: Nov 10, 2004 11:39 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Treadle sewing machines I had a treadle machine once and absolutely loved it. I was emotionally attached to it in a way I'll never be attached to my modern power sewing machines. With the treadle machine, I was part of the process, not just somebody pushing fabric under a needle while the machine does it's thing. Someday I hope to get another treadle machine. Katie >Am a fashion lover since I was a bitty kid but didn't start sewing until I >bought two treadle sewing machines this past year. They sew so easily and >nicely that before I knew it, was hooked. It's a really cool feeling to >work on a piece on one of the machines and realize that it's likely >someone else did something quite similar years and years ago. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 10 14:50:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAAJoxVi005248 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:50:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAAJmd4a017418 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:48:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAAJmTg2008825; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:48:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAAJmHg3008579 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:48:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-189.sonic.net [209.148.113.189]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iAAJmDWA005868 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 11:48:13 -0800 Message-ID: <4192707F.9090509@lavoltapress.com> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 11:48:15 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] period seam finishing References: <51A3B7155A485548A47D068A9793C4FF059454CF@m-ncid-1.ncid.cdc.gov><1060.24.4.69.40.1100103355.squirrel@24.4.69.40> <41924332.7090703@lavoltapress.com> <021701c4c749$698d3b60$0400a8c0@compaqub> In-Reply-To: <021701c4c749$698d3b60$0400a8c0@compaqub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Generally, yes, publishers make less from books sold through Amazon. Amazon discounts are putting many small retailers out of business. Some people believe this is an intentional strategy, and that once Amazon has reduced the competition enough they will quit giving the book discounts, or at least give fewer and smaller ones. Some people believe Amazon's book "store" is not really doing all that well and their discount strategy is partly fueled by other, more successful "stores." However, I don't think anyone outside Amazon knows for sure. Finally, Amazon discounts are contributing to higher cover prices. This gets very complicated but: The entities a publisher can sell to are: Distributors, who sell to wholesalers and retailers, and sometimes libraries Wholesalers, who sell to retailers and libraries Retailers, who sell to consumers Libraries, who sell to no one Consumers, who sell to no one The higher an entity is in the food chain the bigger discount they need, with discounts to distributors running as high as 80% or so off the list price/cover price, discounts to wholesalers running 55%, discounts to bookstores running 40%, and discounts to consumers usually 0%. Another factor is labor in both marketing and in processing orders. Distributors get a huge discount partly because they supposedly actively market for publishers and take that time and expense off the publisher's hands (but many distributors are not very effective, and some demand to be the publisher's _only_ sales channel). Otherwise, the publisher must do large retailer mailings several times a year. If they sell to libraries they must contact libraries, if they sell to consumers they must contact (probably thousands) of them. Although opinions as to marketing email vary widely, the postal service is preferred by many recipients. It takes about the same amount of time for the publisher to process and even pack an order for a hundred books as for one book. Order size also doesn't matter in the monthly reminders sent to slow-paying retailers and wholesalers. Or in tracking delayed shipments. Or answering customer questions. And of course, overhead expenses (warehousing, office equipment, etc.) are not tied to order size. Every publisher makes out a discount schedule when they start business, detailing what discounts they will give to which entities for what number of books. This schedule is based on an estimate of how many books they will sell through each channel. It may be overridden by signed contracts with specific distributors or wholesalers who demand certain terms as standard for _their_ business. Every publisher's discount schedule is somewhat different (and not all of them work for the publisher). Every book has a cover price/list price. This should be determined before the publisher announces the book. And, usually, before the publisher is completely sure of the book's manufacturing cost. Nonetheless, the cover price is based on the estimated manufacturing cost. There are various ways to figure this, but these days the manufacturing costs also usually include all the editing, layout, and other pre-printer work. Plus, the cover price is based on the publisher's estimate of how many copies will be sold through each channel. For example, how many at 80% to a distributor, how many at 0% to consumers, and so on. The publisher has, legally and in practice, zero control over what a retailer or wholesaler charges for the book. The discount is based on the cover price, but retailers can and do charge less or more than the cover price. OK, so let me turn to how customers buy. A publisher is almost compelled to be carried by a certain huge wholesaler who dominates the book industry--and whose database is distributed to and widely used by almost every bookstore. If the clerk denies all knowledge of a book you _know_ exists, it's because that one wholesaler does not carry it. To avoid this publishers will do almost anything to get into that wholesaler--who, BTW, does not accept publishers with fewer than ten books. That is why many small presses sign up with distributors whose books _are_ listed by the wholesaler. We do not meet the wholesaler's official requirements, but they have carried us since we had only one book and we have survived several purges of unprofitable and very small publishers. So I can tell you that wholesaler contractually demands a 55% discount and they do not negotiate. Bookstores prefer to order from as few sources as possible because it makes their accounting and order tracking a lot easier. They particularly like the 800-pound wholesaler mentioned above. Although they occasionally order direct from publishers, most prefer not to. Other types of retailers, such as reenactment suppliers, are more likely to order direct from a publisher. Amazon is a retailer, and they too order copiously from the 800-pound wholesaler. Consumers used to buy direct from those publishers who would sell to them direct, much more often than they do now. That is because many go where there is a discount, and they think first of Amazon. So, a great many books that were once sold at no discount to consumers are now sold at 55% to a wholesaler because the purchase is from Amazon, or Barnes & Noble, or a similar online discount store. To make up for this, publishers are raising their cover prices. Our Amazon orders, in fact a very large (and increasing) part of our orders overall, go through the 800-pound wholesaler. However, Amazon has a program called Amazon Advantage, for buying direct from publishers. We do not participate in it because, for one thing, there is little advantage to us. For another, we believe it is unfair competition for the small retailers we want to support as fellow businesses. In this program Amazon requires the wholesaler discount of 55%, which enables them to give consumers bigger discounts than retailers who get only 40%. The publisher is also allowed to list books with Amazon directly (we can't, Amazon can really screw up database entries, and they ignore all our corrections) and to post back cover copy and quotes from published reviews (we are not allowed to post marketing material). The big advantage, however, is for publishers who are not carried by the 800-pound wholesaler and for whom Advantage seems the only way to get into Amazon. There _ is _supposed to be a non-Advantage way to list with Amazon directly. But it is very obscure. And Amazon penalizes publishers who do that by announcing very long delivery times. Publishers who fill Amazon orders the day they get them have their books listed as "available in 4-6 weeks." Barnes & Noble online has a similar buying program (but we sell to them through the wholesaler). Some points: Every book is different, but a reduced price does not necessarily make any significant increase in sales. As far as I can tell we're selling almost exactly same number of books to almost exactly the same people; we just sell most at 55% off now. The math for this is complicated, but you actually have to sell a whole lot more books, not a few more, to make up for any significant price reduction. It does not work, at least for us, to give everyone a big discount because we can't afford it; we have to stagger our schedule. Publishers with schedules not based on the entity sold to, base the schedule on quantity, and few consumers want more than one copy of a book. The Amazon sales ranking system is so arcane no one seems to understand it, including Amazon employees. But it is clear that its tie to book sales is, well, tenuous. A publisher of a slow-selling book can move its rank 100,000 points or so by buying a handful of copies of their own book within an hour or so. I think it's silly, but some publishers do exactly that so they can advertise a better ranking, which they think results in real sales. As for our position on Amazon--we don't object to selling to the 800-pound wholesaler. They are quite reasonable to work with. We do feel Amazon is hard on some of the small retailers we sell to--which also means we don't get orders at 40% off from them, after they go under. Yes, Amazon is losing us money per book, but we're raising our cover prices as needed to make up for it. Which is the strategy of most other publishers. We are, BTW, doing extremely well and particularly with _Fashions of the Gilded Age_. I was afraid a higher cover price and two volumes would discourage sales (and used that format anyway because it was right for the content). But that has not happened. This has been our best year so far. We are actively working on another book, and have three others in the pipeline. (We don't announce our books before they are available, so all I'll say is we are not dedicated to producing a range of identical books for different eras, nor are we dedicated to any kind of chronological order.) So we're far from going out of business because of Amazon, or anything else. I'm just saying that Amazon has influenced the whole publishing industry, and not always in positive ways. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 10 15:21:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAAKLcuD005569 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 15:21:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAAKJI4a020822 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 10 Nov 2004 13:19:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAAKJCg2034284; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 13:19:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m-smtp-2.cdc.gov (m-smtp-2.cdc.gov [198.246.97.19]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAAKJ4g2034098 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 13:19:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from NBD2@CDC.GOV) Received: from mcdc-us-bis.cdc.gov ([158.111.6.114]) by m-smtp-2.cdc.gov with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id W4PD4XC8; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 15:26:28 -0500 Received: from m-ncid-1.NCID.CDC.GOV ([158.111.223.50]) by mcdc-us-bis.cdc.gov with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 10 Nov 2004 15:18:39 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6603.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 15:18:39 -0500 Message-ID: <51A3B7155A485548A47D068A9793C4FF059454D6@m-ncid-1.ncid.cdc.gov> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: period seam finishing: thanks so much! Thread-Index: AcTHYnbmR+jQH1p6RoWL3d8I6KmR9Q== From: "Ferguson, Natalie" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Nov 2004 20:18:39.0463 (UTC) FILETIME=[77401F70:01C4C762] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] period seam finishing: thanks so much! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1913442895==" Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1913442895== content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 V293LCB0aGFua3MgZm9yIGFsbCB0aGUgYWR2aWNlIHNvIHJhcGlkbHkhDQogDQpPa2F5LCBpdCdz IGJhY2sgaW50byB0aGUgY2VsbGFyIHRvIGZpbmQgV29ya3dvbWFuJ3MgR3VpZGUuLi5pZiBJIGNh bi4gTWVhbndoaWxlLCB3aWxsIGxvb2sgdXAgRmFzaGlvbnMgb2YgdGhlIEdpbGRlZCBBZ2UuIFNv dW5kcyBuZWF0IGFuZCBwYXR0ZXJucyBhcmUgd2hhdCBJIG5lZWQsIHRvby4NCiANCkZvcmdvdCBB TEwgYWJvdXQgdmludGFnZXNld2luZ2luZm87IHRoYW5rcyBmb3IgdGhlIHJlbWluZGVyLiBUaGF0 J3MgYSBmYXZvcml0ZSBzaXRlLCBidXQgaGF2ZSBiZWVuIGV4Y2x1c2l2ZWx5IGZvY3VzZWQgb24g dGhlIG1hcnZlbG91cyBwYXR0ZXJuIGRyYWZ0aW5nIGJvb2sgdGhleSBoYXZlIG9ubGluZSBmcm9t IHRoZSA0MHMuIFlvdSBrbm93LCBhbGwgYWJvdXQgc2xvcGVycyBhbmQgZGFydHMuIE1ha2VzIGdv b2QgYmVkdGltZSByZWFkaW5nIGlmIHlvdSdyZSBpbnRvIHRoYXQgc29ydCBvZiB0aGluZywgYWx0 aG91Z2ggZGVzcGl0ZSB0aGUgY2xlYXIgZGlyZWN0aW9ucyBhIGxvdCBvZiBpdCBpcyBzdGlsbCB3 YXkgYmV5b25kIG1lLiA6fQ0KIA0KRm9yIGZpbmlzaGluZyB0aGUgY3VycmVudCBuaWdodGRyZXNz IEkgd2lsbCB0cnkgcGlua2luZyBzaGVlcnMgYW5kIHNlZSB3aGF0IGhhcHBlbnMgaW4gdGhlIHdh c2guIElmIHRoZSA5OS1jZW50IG11c2xpbiBzdGFydHMgdG8gdW5yYXZlbCwgd2VsbCB0aGVuLCBJ IGtub3cgdG8gZmluaXNoIGl0IG91dCBkaWZmZXJlbnRseSBuZXh0IHRpbWUuDQogDQpIYWQgb3Jk ZXJlZCBDbG90aGluZyBDbG9zZSBVcCBsYXN0IG1vbnRoIGZyb20gQWxpYnJpcyBidXQgaXQgaGFz bid0IGFycml2ZWQgYW5kIGFtIGdldHRpbmcgYSBiaXQgd29ycmllZC4NCiANCk5lYXQgdGhhdCB5 b3UgYWxsIGxpa2UgdHJlYWRsZXMgdG9vLi4uSSBhY3R1YWxseSBuYW1lZCB0aGUgb25lIEkgdXNl IFdpbGxpZSBhZnRlciB0aGUgc3dlZXQgZG9nIHRoYXQgdGhlIHdvbWFuIEkgYm91Z2h0IGl0IGZy b20gaGFkLiBHbGFkIHRvIGhlYXIgdGhhdCBvdGhlcnMgYXJlIGVtb3Rpb25hbGx5IGF0dGFjaGVk IHRvIHRoZW0uIExpYWRhaW4sIHlvdSBzYXkgdGhhdCB3aXRoIGEgdHJlYWRsZSB5b3UgY2FuIHNl dyB0aHJvdWdoIGFueXRoaW5nLiBJJ2QgbGlrZSB0byB0cnkgZHVjayBmb3IgYSBjb3JkZWQgY29y c2V0IGFuZCBzZWUgaWYgdGhhdCB3b3Jrcy4gQmV0dGVyIGhhdmUgYW4gZXh0cmEgbmVlZGxlIG9y IHR3byBvbiBoYW5kLCB3b3VsZCBndWVzcy4NCiANClRoYW5rcyBhZ2FpbiwgYWxsIGFuZCBJJ2xs IGtlZXAgcmVhZGluZywNCiANCk5hdGFsaWUNCg== --===============1913442895== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --===============1913442895==-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 10 15:24:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAAKO0QB005576 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 15:24:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAAKLw4a021111 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 10 Nov 2004 13:21:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAAKLvg2036786; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 13:21:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web51409.mail.yahoo.com (web51409.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.188]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id iAAKK8g2035129 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 13:20:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ivycircle@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 51319 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Nov 2004 20:20:02 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=uKz/7gRMMAVMSA6KNbZefcnpn6qU+3W8C4O/YPWQSU5WshKO29GO4DpjxSUxtDk89F2+VP1teozqHTglws+5QDvMM3SFcEF4bPzMfyex7sP8Y3ZeZ1r1RprY1336yhnoCBe58xhLpdMIZF5zo4OES/xwxTSUh/efD7T3Hcxqwws= ; Message-ID: <20041110202002.51317.qmail@web51409.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.240.39.163] by web51409.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:20:02 PST Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:20:02 -0800 (PST) From: ~Angelique To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200411101903.iAAJ2mg4072943@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] wool/1560/tweed??? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Recently I read somewhere that wool tweed is an appropriate fabric for merchant class 1560. Is this correct? My husband enjoys the look of tweed and would love a tweed doublet. I have seen two distinctive types of tweed one that looks mottled and one that's more plaid. Are they both appropriate? Any sources or general info would be helpful if the naysayers say nay to tweed! :-) Truly, Angelique --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 10 15:51:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAAKpqGc005883 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 15:51:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAAKnl4a024060 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 10 Nov 2004 13:49:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAAKnXg2059281; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 13:49:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAAKnJg3059076 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 13:49:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id iAAKoPVF012350 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 15:50:26 -0500 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20041110123848.00bd1748@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:48:51 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance In-Reply-To: <51A3B7155A485548A47D068A9793C4FF059454D6@m-ncid-1.ncid.cdc .gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Treadle sewing machines X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It took a while to find it, but there is a magic point in the cycle where instead of moving to the next stitch, you can "back up" and hit the same location again. Thus, with careful treadle control, you can repeatedly tap the needle into the same location. Each tap drives the needle a little deeper, and eventually it goes all the way through. Then you do the same thing with the next stitch. I broke very few needles on my treadle machine because the power of the needle entering the fabric is directly controlled by how fast and with what force you move the treadle. After a while you can develop a 'touch' that exactly fits the fabric being sewn. Modern machines just do their thing and the most common feedback that I receive is the sound of a needle breaking. That would never happen with the treadle machine because my feet would feel the jamming before the needle broke. The more you 'play' with your treadle machine, the more you will love it. Amazon has a reprint of a Singer book on doing machine embroidery with a treadle machine. I figured it out on my own before I knew about the book. It isn't difficult, just very precise and slow because you have to coordinate the movement of the fabric for every single stitch with the movement of the treadle to create the stitch. The combination of accurate placement and accurate stitching can produce output that is better than what the computerized high-end sewing/embroidering machines produce. Katie >Neat that you all like treadles too...I actually named the one I use >Willie after the sweet dog that the woman I bought it from had. Glad to >hear that others are emotionally attached to them. Liadain, you say that >with a treadle you can sew through anything. I'd like to try duck for a >corded corset and see if that works. Better have an extra needle or two on >hand, would guess. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 10 15:59:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAAKxeH6005925 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 15:59:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAAKwY4a025102 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 10 Nov 2004 13:58:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAAKwSg2066762; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 13:58:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from relay03.roc.ny.frontiernet.net (relay03.roc.ny.frontiernet.net [66.133.131.36]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAAKwOg2066699 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 13:58:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from homeec@telenet.net) Received: from filter01.roc.ny.frontiernet.net (filter01.roc.ny.frontiernet.net [66.133.131.176]) by relay03.roc.ny.frontiernet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA7A41924F3 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 20:58:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from relay03.roc.ny.frontiernet.net ([66.133.131.36]) by filter01.roc.ny.frontiernet.net (filter01.roc.ny.frontiernet.net [66.133.131.176]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 07471-12-93 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 20:58:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (67-51-237-145.dsl1.glv.ny.frontiernet.net [67.51.237.145]) by relay03.roc.ny.frontiernet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1D6F1923B7 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 20:58:20 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <419280E0.8020707@telenet.net> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 15:58:08 -0500 From: Home Ec User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Treadle sewing machines References: <5.2.0.9.0.20041110103617.02dd12f8@mail.katiesorchids.com> In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20041110103617.02dd12f8@mail.katiesorchids.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20040701 (2.0) at filter01.roc.ny.frontiernet.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have a treadle - Singer did another run of their early treadle machines, and so you could buy a brand new one just a few years ago for a couple of hundred. I was silly and bought one, and there it sits. I keep thinking of trying to sell it, but I was wary of EBaying it. Katie Pleasance wrote: > I had a treadle machine once and absolutely loved it. I was > emotionally attached to it in a way I'll never be attached to my > modern power sewing machines. With the treadle machine, I was part of > the process, not just somebody pushing fabric under a needle while the > machine does it's thing. > > Someday I hope to get another treadle machine. > > Katie > >> Am a fashion lover since I was a bitty kid but didn't start sewing >> until I bought two treadle sewing machines this past year. They sew >> so easily and nicely that before I knew it, was hooked. It's a really >> cool feeling to work on a piece on one of the machines and realize >> that it's likely someone else did something quite similar years and >> years ago. > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 10 16:08:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAAL8Mt9006001 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 16:08:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAAL7g4a026044 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:07:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAAL7bg2074855; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:07:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm43.prodigy.net (ylpvm43-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.74]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAAL7Zg2074820 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:07:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-70-114.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.70.114]) by ylpvm43.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAAL7aow018468 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 16:07:36 -0500 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20041110124355.0254fbd8@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 13:07:22 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Treadle sewing machines In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20041110103617.02dd12f8@mail.katiesorchids.com> References: <51A3B7155A485548A47D068A9793C4FF059454CF@m-ncid-1.ncid.cdc .gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I had a treadle machine once and absolutely loved it. I was emotionally >attached to it in a way I'll never be attached to my modern power sewing >machines. With the treadle machine, I was part of the process, not just >somebody pushing fabric under a needle while the machine does it's thing. > >Someday I hope to get another treadle machine. > >Katie > >>Am a fashion lover since I was a bitty kid but didn't start sewing until >>I bought two treadle sewing machines this past year. They sew so easily >>and nicely that before I knew it, was hooked. It's a really cool feeling >>to work on a piece on one of the machines and realize that it's likely >>someone else did something quite similar years and years ago. I currently have a treadle machine I plan to use, but I'm somehow hesitant to do so, having grown up with powered machines. It was in classroom use till not long before I got it, so it's not like I'll break the machinery. It came with extra needles, so I'm not worried about breaking one of those. And it has several cool attachments I'd like to be using, along with the instruction manual to show me how. But it feels all new and different to me, so it has sat unused since I got it. (The cabinet is just the right height to use as a sewing table with my modern electric portable.) Any beginner's advice? CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 10 16:16:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAALGMaa006067 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 16:16:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAALEW4a026786 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:14:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAALERg2002547; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:14:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail11.mdx.safepages.com (mail11.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.34]) by net.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAALENg2002428 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:14:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 4943AA09C4; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:14:23 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust227.tnt3.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.197.227]) by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 4F5ECA08DC for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:14:22 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <024c01c4c76a$4829b450$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20041110202002.51317.qmail@web51409.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] tweed & pattern matching Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 15:14:35 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'd be truly fascinated to know the answer to this--I'm a tweed naysayer! =} But I realize there are some changes that went on in the 16th century that are beyond the scope of my research--and new (or old) info that I might have missed on earlier periods. Speaking of which, I know there's a point somewhere in or near the 16th century, when the patterns/designs on fabric began to be matched, rather than just laying out the garment pieces however they'd fit. Does anyone know when that change came about? From looking at paintings, it seems to be in the 1520s or 1530s, when a front slit skirt began to get popular. But it could be earlier, since some of the bodice sections of dresses in paintings have the design centered perfectly across the chest. Has anyone found something solid on the date range the change happened? -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 10 16:38:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAALcPtZ006228 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 16:38:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAALbE4a029507 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:37:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAALb1pa029830; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:37:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth09.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth09.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.69]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAALadx0029541 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:36:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hardcorps@earthlink.net) Received: from [63.186.1.96] (helo=familyroom) by smtpauth09.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CS08s-0002aH-Be for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 16:36:39 -0500 Message-ID: <003501c4c76d$56ddb6b0$6001ba3f@familyroom> From: "Frank Thallas" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.0.9.0.20041110103617.02dd12f8@mail.katiesorchids.com> <419280E0.8020707@telenet.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Treadle sewing machines Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:36:17 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 20944e7cb345c9e70cc1426638a40ef67e972de0d01da940999ee61c62d35e615b50e7092ca2d052350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 63.186.1.96 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just out of curiosity, why don't you use it? Liadain ----- Original Message ----- From: "Home Ec" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 1:58 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Treadle sewing machines >I have a treadle - Singer did another run of their early treadle > machines, and so you could buy a brand new one just a few years ago for > a couple of hundred. I was silly and bought one, and there it > sits. I keep thinking of trying to sell it, but I was wary of > EBaying it. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 10 16:40:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAALeFK5006238 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 16:40:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAALdd4a029824 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:39:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAALda0b032026; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:39:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAALbVef030250 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:37:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id iAALcbVF027144 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 16:38:38 -0500 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20041110133336.02ef4ea0@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 13:37:24 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: Re: [h-cost] Treadle sewing machines In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20041110124355.0254fbd8@mail.frys.com> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20041110103617.02dd12f8@mail.katiesorchids.com> <51A3B7155A485548A47D068A9793C4FF059454CF@m-ncid-1.ncid.cdc .gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Do something - anything! Make sure that it's not an important project. You *will* make a lot of errors as you get a feel for the machine -- how much treadle pressure and when? How fast and when? Where in the treadle cycle disengages the feed dogs while raising the needle so that you can turn the material (that's the magic trick to treadle machine embroidery). Treadle machines take a while to get used to. They are much slower than modern machines, but, oh, the control ... Katie >I currently have a treadle machine I plan to use, but I'm somehow hesitant >to do so, having grown up with powered machines. It was in classroom use >till not long before I got it, so it's not like I'll break the >machinery. It came with extra needles, so I'm not worried about breaking >one of those. And it has several cool attachments I'd like to be using, >along with the instruction manual to show me how. But it feels all new >and different to me, so it has sat unused since I got it. (The cabinet is >just the right height to use as a sewing table with my modern electric >portable.) Any beginner's advice?= > CarolynKayta Barrows _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 10 16:42:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAALguo7006245 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 16:42:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAALft4a000268 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:41:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAALfqPO033884; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:41:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth09.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth09.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.69]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAALeoaX033064 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:40:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hardcorps@earthlink.net) Received: from [63.186.1.96] (helo=familyroom) by smtpauth09.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CS0Cu-0004f6-Mg for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 16:40:49 -0500 Message-ID: <003f01c4c76d$f1524580$6001ba3f@familyroom> From: "Frank Thallas" To: "Historical Costume" References: <51A3B7155A485548A47D068A9793C4FF059454CF@m-ncid-1.ncid.cdc .gov> <4.3.1.2.20041110124355.0254fbd8@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Treadle sewing machines Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:40:46 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 20944e7cb345c9e70cc1426638a40ef67e972de0d01da940cd6ead66361d70bece63412579c3e9f8350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 63.186.1.96 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just start fiddling with it. Get some fairly sturdy cotton (I say this because it's cheap) and make something utilitarian - carry bags, table cloths, whatever, that use plain sewing. Then, when you're a little used to just "driving" the treadle, you can start playing with the attachments... The hardest part is getting used to how the treadle works the machine - "start" and Stop" aren't as instant, for instance. But you'll get the feel of it pretty quick, and you'll never be kept from your sewing by blackouts or high electric bills again... Liadain ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 2:07 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Treadle sewing machines > >>I had a treadle machine once and absolutely loved it. I was emotionally >>attached to it in a way I'll never be attached to my modern power sewing >>machines. With the treadle machine, I was part of the process, not just >>somebody pushing fabric under a needle while the machine does it's thing. >> >>Someday I hope to get another treadle machine. >> >>Katie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 10 17:44:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAAMiofG006824 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 17:44:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAAMhp4a007968 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 10 Nov 2004 15:43:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAAMhgWQ083548; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 15:43:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm43.prodigy.net (ylpvm43-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.74]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAAMhcSX083503 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 15:43:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-65-185.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.65.185]) by ylpvm43.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAAMhcow019759 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 17:43:39 -0500 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20041110142333.0318c708@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:32:28 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Treadle sewing machines In-Reply-To: <003f01c4c76d$f1524580$6001ba3f@familyroom> References: <51A3B7155A485548A47D068A9793C4FF059454CF@m-ncid-1.ncid.cdc .gov> <4.3.1.2.20041110124355.0254fbd8@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Just start fiddling with it. I was afraid people would be saying that. Yeah, I really ought to start playing with it. Trouble is, I always seem to be in the middle of some sewing project, on the known machine, which is not the time to start experimenting with the unknown machine. But straight seams ought to be good enough practice for such a machine, and my latest costume has a lot of straight seams. The manual even tells me how to wind a bobbin (it takes the long skinny ones, and several were included) and how to thread it. I guess inertia is the real problem. >and >you'll never be kept from your sewing by blackouts or high electric bills >again... If the blackout comes at my usual sewing time, which is the middle of the night, then yes, I will be kept from my sewing. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 10 18:30:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAANURTC006975 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 18:30:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAANOe4a011963 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 10 Nov 2004 16:24:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAANOUpr014832; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 16:24:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAANOQMM014746 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 16:24:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-189.sonic.net [209.148.113.189]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iAANOMvT000888 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 15:24:23 -0800 Message-ID: <4192A329.6090903@lavoltapress.com> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 15:24:25 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] period seam finishing References: <51A3B7155A485548A47D068A9793C4FF059454CF@m-ncid-1.ncid.cdc.gov><1060.24.4.69.40.1100103355.squirrel@24.4.69.40> <41924332.7090703@lavoltapress.com> <021701c4c749$698d3b60$0400a8c0@compaqub> <4192707F.9090509@lavoltapress.com> In-Reply-To: <4192707F.9090509@lavoltapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Fran and other published authors, do you make less on a book if we order through it Amazon? I forgot to say this, because I as a business am a publisher rather than an author. Or rather, my husband and I and a number of freelancers hired as needed. This is not really a one-person business. There are huge differences in the style of operation. We print thousands of copies of each book via offset printing, rent warehouse space, own a bunch of fancy production equipment, and all that stuff. However, as to whether _authors_ lose out on discount sales--it depends on the royalty basis of the author's contract for that book. If the royalty is based on the cover price, the author does not lose out. If the royalty is based on the price the publisher receives, the author does lose out. Both types of contract are common. Fran Lavolta Press Two new books on 1870s and 1880s clothing! http://www.lavoltapress.com > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 10 18:46:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAANkkUY007091 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 18:46:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAANk24a014071 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 10 Nov 2004 16:46:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAANjr86030557; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 16:45:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.196]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAANjk41030485 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 16:45:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from joycebre@gmail.com) Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 40so257737rnz for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 15:45:41 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=jfms/ZoxuTFiA3oL0KfqO9LIXisEO4eb6q2i/wdfZEblhCxTRGMyNF0atEnLU+oXixpQG9of2NDaWlyuBKIaAE1kQ3y0jqBnI8a6zuSUweU/BiOw4TrfwXx4IQm2dh4EM8QgYIWjlbh7Wd7QTF+CG6HWLMidGLjhoRfcYHUVD+0= Received: by 10.38.8.19 with SMTP id 19mr1003909rnh; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 15:45:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.38.179.57 with HTTP; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 15:45:41 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 15:45:41 -0800 From: Gianetta To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200411101903.iAAJ2mg4072943@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <200411101903.iAAJ2mg4072943@net.indra.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: I'm going shopping in Sydney X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ooh, I love places like that! I'll get out my maps and see if I can get there! I hope to get to New Zealand too, while I'm there. thanks everyone for the suggestions! -- Joyce > > Soon, I don't know when, but soon, I will be going to Sydney for about > > 3 months. While there, I would like shop shop shop. So, is there a > > place in Sydney No. Get on a plane and fly to Melbourne and find the Job Warehouse at the top end of Bourke Street, an old business ran by a cantankerous old family that has not re-arranged its stock in at least 40 years (there is a dusty bold of green Miller shirt fabric in the window). Imagine the LA garment district shoved into one old building that has only had one alteration in the last two generations, a No Smoking sign. In short, if it is not at the Job Warehouse, it does not exist. You just have to be willing to barter (argue, actually), seeing they don't even know how much they paid for the stuff and little interest in serving people who do not know what they want; and climb over bolts and racks and whatever else has collapsed in some doorway -- that is if they are in a good mood on the day you visit and allow you go go back beyond the front room, -C. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 10 19:43:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAB0hGdZ007270 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 19:43:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAB0gQ4a019707 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 10 Nov 2004 17:42:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAB0gLwP064946; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 17:42:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m-smtp-2.cdc.gov (smtpgw.cdc.gov [198.246.97.19]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAB0gI8S064852 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 17:42:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from NBD2@CDC.GOV) Received: from mcdc-us-bis.cdc.gov ([158.111.6.114]) by m-smtp-2.cdc.gov with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id W4PDWNGA; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 19:49:43 -0500 Received: from m-ncid-1.NCID.CDC.GOV ([158.111.223.50]) by mcdc-us-bis.cdc.gov with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 10 Nov 2004 19:42:10 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6603.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 19:42:10 -0500 Message-ID: <51A3B7155A485548A47D068A9793C4FF059454D8@m-ncid-1.ncid.cdc.gov> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: treadling Thread-Index: AcTHh0cCWAZCzKNrQaWujoOBz5vzqA== From: "Ferguson, Natalie" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Nov 2004 00:42:10.0417 (UTC) FILETIME=[47503E10:01C4C787] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] treadling X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1823677710==" Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1823677710== content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Rmlyc3QsIHRoYW5rcyBLYXRpZSBmb3IgdGhlIGhvdy10byBvbiBzZXdpbmcgdGhpY2sgZmFicmlj cy4gSSBhbSBwcmludGluZyBpdA0KZm9yIG15IGZpbGVzIDp9DQoNClNlY29uZCwgdG8gQ2Fyb2x5 bktheXRhLCBkbyBhIEdvb2dsZSBzZWFyY2ggZm9yIFRyZWFkbGVPbiwgYW4gaW5jcmVkaWJseQ0K YWN0aXZlIG9ubGluZSBjb21tdW5pdHkgb2YgcGVvcGxlIHdobyB1c2UgdHJlYWRsZSBhbmQgaGFu ZC1jcmFua2VkIG1hY2hpbmVzLg0KWW91J2xsIGZpbmQgZXZlcnl0aGluZyB5b3UgbmVlZCB0byBr bm93IGFib3V0IHRyZWFkbGluZywgaW5jbHVkaW5nIGRldGFpbGVkDQppbnN0cnVjdGlvbnMgb24g bGVhcm5pbmcgdG8gZG8gdGhlIGZvb3R3b3JrLiAoRG9uJ3Qgd29ycnksIGFmdGVyIGEgZmV3IHJv d3MNCm9mIHN0aXRjaGVzIG9uIGEgc2NyYXAgcGllY2Ugb2YgZmFicmljLCB5b3UnbGwgYmVnaW4g dG8gZmVlbCBhdCBob21lLikgUGx1cywNCnRoZWlyIGxpc3RzZXJ2IGlzIGZ1bGwgb2YgZm9sa3Mg d2hvIGhhdmUgYmVlbiB0cmVhZGxpbmcgZm9yIHllYXJzIGFuZCB3aG8NCmNhbiBoZWxwIHlvdSBs ZWFybiB0byB0cmVhZGxlIGFuZCB0ZWFjaCB5b3UgdG8gdXNlIHlvdXIgYXR0YWNobWVudHMuIE1v c3QNCnN0aXRjaGVycyB0aGVyZSBhcmUgaW50byBxdWlsdHMsIGJ1dCBzb21lIGRvIGRyZXNzbWFr aW5nIGFuZCBvdGhlciBmYWJyaWMNCmFydHMgYXMgd2VsbC4NCg0KSWYgeW91IG5lZWQgaGVscCBp ZGVudGlmeWluZyB5b3VyIG1hY2hpbmUgcGFydHMsIHlvdSBjYW4gYWxzbyB0dXJuIHRvDQpJU01B Q1MuIEkgZm9yZ2V0IHdoYXQgdGhlIGFjcm9ueW0gaXMgZm9yLCBidXQgdGhleSBjb25zZXJ2ZS9y ZXN0b3JlDQptYWNoaW5lcy4gVGhlaXIgcGFzc2lvbiBpcyBjb2xsZWN0aW5nLCBub3QgdXNpbmcs IGJ1dCB5b3UgY2FuIGxlYXJuIGEgbG90DQpmcm9tIHRoZW0uDQoNCkhvcGUgdGhpcyBoZWxwcywN Cg0KTmF0YWxpZQ0K --===============1823677710== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --===============1823677710==-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 10 22:06:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAB36PBV007900 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 22:06:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAB35a4a002940 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 10 Nov 2004 20:05:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAB35PJq043474; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 20:05:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail11.mdx.safepages.com (mail11.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAB35OZ8043438 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 20:05:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 5AFF5A077C; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 03:05:22 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust171.tnt1.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.148.171]) by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 7541FA06D6 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 03:05:21 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <02ab01c4c79b$542b7910$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:05:40 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] OT but cute X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id iAB36PBV007900 Status: RO So it's not properly historical costume, but it's armor inspired by historical armor--that sorta counts, right? http://www.tellmewhereonearth.com/photostore2/535.jpg -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 10 22:45:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAB3jiN4008023 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 22:45:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAB3iq4a005867 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 10 Nov 2004 20:44:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAB3ilrW063290; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 20:44:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065c05.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065c05.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.183]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAB3ijcj063268 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 20:44:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hardcorps@earthlink.net) Received: from misspiggy.psp.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.78.246]) by pop-a065c05.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CS5t7-0007Fd-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 19:44:45 -0800 Message-ID: <29595715.1100144685044.JavaMail.root@misspiggy.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 20:44:45 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: Frank and Tracy Thallas To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT but cute Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I like it. And someone has waaaaaaaay too much time on their hands. Liadain -----Original Message----- From: E House Sent: Nov 10, 2004 8:05 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] OT but cute So it's not properly historical costume, but it's armor inspired by historical armor--that sorta counts, right? http://www.tellmewhereonearth.com/photostore2/535.jpg -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 10 22:52:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAB3qrN3008054 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 22:52:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAB3qE4a006318 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 10 Nov 2004 20:52:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAB3qB0W066989; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 20:52:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065c05.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065c05.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.183]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAB3q9m6066969 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 20:52:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hardcorps@earthlink.net) Received: from misspiggy.psp.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.78.246]) by pop-a065c05.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CS60H-0001HB-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 19:52:09 -0800 Message-ID: <14008336.1100145129181.JavaMail.root@misspiggy.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 20:52:09 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: Frank and Tracy Thallas To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Treadle sewing machines Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ahhh, sewing by candlelight - how romantic! Liadain -----Original Message----- From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Sent: Nov 10, 2004 3:32 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Treadle sewing machines >and >you'll never be kept from your sewing by blackouts or high electric bills >again... If the blackout comes at my usual sewing time, which is the middle of the night, then yes, I will be kept from my sewing. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 10 23:02:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAB42qko008099 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 23:02:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAB4264a006923 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:02:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAB423uO072010; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:02:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAB41I8a071607 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:01:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31DEE11821 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 20:01:15 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041110193746.02adddf8@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 20:00:37 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] wool/1560/tweed??? In-Reply-To: <20041110202002.51317.qmail@web51409.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200411101903.iAAJ2mg4072943@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:20 PM 11/10/2004 -0800, you wrote: >Recently I read somewhere that wool tweed is an appropriate fabric for >merchant class 1560. Is this correct? My husband enjoys the look of tweed >and would love a tweed doublet. I have seen two distinctive types of tweed >one that looks mottled and one that's more plaid. Are they both >appropriate? Any sources or general info would be helpful if the naysayers >say nay to tweed! :-) Truly, > > Angelique Hi Angelique, I used to do Scots and we suggested tweed, which if my swiss cheese memory is right, was a rewording of twill, which is indeed a period method of weaving wool (or any other fabrics). Tartans made into kilts are best when made as a tweed/twill. Most re-enactors I knew cannot afford good tweed wool, however, so they went for the commonly available tabby woven wools, usually in a tartan sett. Mottled tweed is more appropriate in general for the 16th c., as plaid or tartan styles call to mind more "modern" interpretations, and the whole "is tartan actually period for the 16th c." thing, not to mention kilts in general. You can also get houndstooth check, which is another old and simple weaving pattern. As to specific examples of 16th century weaving, that I will leave to the experts. I learned a bit of weaving, and have a loom awaiting me for my own handwoven wool fabrics, but I am sure there are questions on anything from that time period for wool weaves, especially any surviving fabrics (I don't have the book people often cite, about the finds in London. It's on my wish list). If anyone wants to correct me with more accurate info, please feel free to do so. I did find a lovely hand woven tweed online that I would someday like to enjoy, when I can afford the price. http://www.theshuttle-uk.com/21002.asp Actually I would love some Harris tweed someday, which is still hand woven (if mechanized in the spinning and dyeing segments) http://www.harristweed.com/index.asp. Sometimes I really do miss portraying a Scot. As for appropriateness for a merchant, wool in general is very appropriate for merchant class, whatever the weaving pattern between plain tabby and twill/tweed. hth, Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 10 23:43:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAB4h246008316 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 23:43:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAB4gF4a009758 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:42:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAB4g9Mo092722; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:42:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAB4emNG092087 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:40:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4B39119DC for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 20:40:47 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041110203230.02ad0870@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 20:40:46 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] tweed & pattern matching In-Reply-To: <024c01c4c76a$4829b450$0400a8c0@compaqub> References: <20041110202002.51317.qmail@web51409.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 03:14 PM 11/10/2004 -0600, you wrote: >I'd be truly fascinated to know the answer to this--I'm a tweed naysayer! >=} But I realize there are some changes that went on in the 16th century >that are beyond the scope of my research--and new (or old) info that I >might have missed on earlier periods. May I ask why a nay-sayer to tweed? >Speaking of which, I know there's a point somewhere in or near the 16th >century, when the patterns/designs on fabric began to be matched, rather >than just laying out the garment pieces however they'd fit. Does anyone >know when that change came about? From looking at paintings, it seems to >be in the 1520s or 1530s, when a front slit skirt began to get popular. >But it could be earlier, since some of the bodice sections of dresses in >paintings have the design centered perfectly across the chest. Has anyone >found something solid on the date range the change happened? > >-E House Alcega's book doesn't seem to mention it, but I may have over looked something. His pattern layouts seem to be, take the end of this uncut section and add to that section end, even on the layouts for "silk", which he deals with nap issues. He otherwise comments on cutting godets from cabbage, and nothing about matching things. Perhaps such issues were taken for granted, or considered part of the basic skills of a tailor, and hence not mentioned? My Arnold book has wandered off again to another part of the house... otherwise I would look to see what she notes there. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 11 00:28:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAB5S58M009061 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 00:28:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAB5RK4a015970 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 10 Nov 2004 22:27:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAB5RG0G020545; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 22:27:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from simmts7-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts7.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.165]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAB5RDbT020511 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 22:27:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([67.70.5.55]) by simmts7-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with SMTP id <20041111052711.NYFR1960.simmts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 00:27:11 -0500 Message-ID: <007501c4c7ae$1b736200$cb6afea9@sherry> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <29595715.1100144685044.JavaMail.root@misspiggy.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT but cute Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 00:12:04 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is a Calgary (Alberta, Canada) based artist, he also did a suit for a mouse. :-) He used to play SCA there. This is the stuff he does for a living, and has done for quite a few years now. Here's his site: http://www.jeffdeboer.com/home.html Sheridan > > I like it. And someone has waaaaaaaay too much time on their hands. > > Liadain > > -----Original Message----- > From: E House > Sent: Nov 10, 2004 8:05 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: [h-cost] OT but cute > > So it's not properly historical costume, but it's armor inspired by historical armor--that sorta counts, right? > http://www.tellmewhereonearth.com/photostore2/535.jpg > > -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 11 01:34:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAB6YV43009653 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 01:34:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAB6XR4a023235 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 10 Nov 2004 23:33:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAB6XEk0053350; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 23:33:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065d19.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065d19.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.253]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAB6X9Kj053298 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 23:33:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hardcorps@earthlink.net) Received: from beaker.psp.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.78.247]) by pop-a065d19.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CS8W4-000273-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 22:33:08 -0800 Message-ID: <16415826.1100154788680.JavaMail.root@beaker.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 22:33:08 -0800 (PST) From: Frank and Tracy Thallas To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT but cute Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Totally too kewl. Thanks! Liadain saving this to show to the Old Man.... -----Original Message----- From: Shane & Sheridan Sent: Nov 10, 2004 9:12 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT but cute This is a Calgary (Alberta, Canada) based artist, he also did a suit for a mouse. :-) He used to play SCA there. This is the stuff he does for a living, and has done for quite a few years now. Here's his site: http://www.jeffdeboer.com/home.html Sheridan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 11 02:17:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAB7H8uF015068 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 02:17:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAB7GK4a026236 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 11 Nov 2004 00:16:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAB7G9XD076480; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 00:16:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay11-dav22.bay11.hotmail.com [64.4.39.52]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAB7G6ib076410 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 00:16:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bear_janet@msn.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 23:16:00 -0800 Received: from 4.10.33.2 by BAY11-DAV22.phx.gbl with DAV; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 07:15:33 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [4.10.33.2] X-Originating-Email: [bear_janet@msn.com] X-Sender: bear_janet@msn.com From: "JAMES OGILVIE" To: "Historical Costume" References: <51A3B7155A485548A47D068A9793C4FF059454CF@m-ncid-1.ncid.cdc.gov><1060.24.4.69.40.1100103355.squirrel@24.4.69.40> <41924332.7090703@lavoltapress.com><021701c4c749$698d3b60$0400a8c0@compaqub> <4192707F.9090509@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 02:15:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 8.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V8.50.0017.1202 Seal-Send-Time: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 02:15:30 -0500 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Nov 2004 07:16:00.0580 (UTC) FILETIME=[4BFCF840:01C4C7BE] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] book selling and Amazon X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id iAB7H8uF015068 Status: RO Although I know some people come and browse the books I carry at events, write down the ISBNs and then go to Amazon in search of a discount, I still am very appreciative of them. The data-base of books they have on-line, free for the taking has been so valuable to me that I would pay for it if I had to. Of course, most of what I carry gets only a small discount on Amazon, sometimes none at all and some things are surcharged books. Most academic publishers' books are sold by them at the full suggested retail price. I'm sure I would feel differently if I was trying to compete with Border's, Barnes & Noble and them for the lowest price on Stephen King or Atkins diet books. As it is, I can go there to look up favorite authors or publishers and have their titles sorted by publication date so I can see what's new. I can track down a title that I or the customer only vaguely remembers with a couple of key words. I can check the reviews, especially the ones by customers, if I'm trying to make a discission between a couple different titles. Sometimes I even buy from their used book dealers, if I see a good out-of-print book at a reasonable price. By the way, I will be merchanting at the Fiber, Fabric and Fighting (SCA) event in State College, PA the weekend after this and also giving a 2 hour slide presentation of medieval and Renaissance women's clothes in period art. Janet Janet Davis Castle Furnishings www.medievalbookstore.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Lavolta Press To: Historical Costume Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 2:48 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] period seam finishing Generally, yes, publishers make less from books sold through Amazon. Amazon discounts are putting many small retailers out of business. Some people believe this is an intentional strategy, and that once Amazon has reduced the competition enough they will quit giving the book discounts, or at least give fewer and smaller ones. Some people believe Amazon's book "store" is not really doing all that well and their discount strategy is partly fueled by other, more successful "stores." However, I don't think anyone outside Amazon knows for sure. Finally, Amazon discounts are contributing to higher cover prices. This gets very complicated but: The entities a publisher can sell to are: Distributors, who sell to wholesalers and retailers, and sometimes libraries Wholesalers, who sell to retailers and libraries Retailers, who sell to consumers Libraries, who sell to no one Consumers, who sell to no one The higher an entity is in the food chain the bigger discount they need, with discounts to distributors running as high as 80% or so off the list price/cover price, discounts to wholesalers running 55%, discounts to bookstores running 40%, and discounts to consumers usually 0%. Another factor is labor in both marketing and in processing orders. Distributors get a huge discount partly because they supposedly actively market for publishers and take that time and expense off the publisher's hands (but many distributors are not very effective, and some demand to be the publisher's _only_ sales channel). Otherwise, the publisher must do large retailer mailings several times a year. If they sell to libraries they must contact libraries, if they sell to consumers they must contact (probably thousands) of them. Although opinions as to marketing email vary widely, the postal service is preferred by many recipients. It takes about the same amount of time for the publisher to process and even pack an order for a hundred books as for one book. Order size also doesn't matter in the monthly reminders sent to slow-paying retailers and wholesalers. Or in tracking delayed shipments. Or answering customer questions. And of course, overhead expenses (warehousing, office equipment, etc.) are not tied to order size. Every publisher makes out a discount schedule when they start business, detailing what discounts they will give to which entities for what number of books. This schedule is based on an estimate of how many books they will sell through each channel. It may be overridden by signed contracts with specific distributors or wholesalers who demand certain terms as standard for _their_ business. Every publisher's discount schedule is somewhat different (and not all of them work for the publisher). Every book has a cover price/list price. This should be determined before the publisher announces the book. And, usually, before the publisher is completely sure of the book's manufacturing cost. Nonetheless, the cover price is based on the estimated manufacturing cost. There are various ways to figure this, but these days the manufacturing costs also usually include all the editing, layout, and other pre-printer work. Plus, the cover price is based on the publisher's estimate of how many copies will be sold through each channel. For example, how many at 80% to a distributor, how many at 0% to consumers, and so on. The publisher has, legally and in practice, zero control over what a retailer or wholesaler charges for the book. The discount is based on the cover price, but retailers can and do charge less or more than the cover price. OK, so let me turn to how customers buy. A publisher is almost compelled to be carried by a certain huge wholesaler who dominates the book industry--and whose database is distributed to and widely used by almost every bookstore. If the clerk denies all knowledge of a book you _know_ exists, it's because that one wholesaler does not carry it. To avoid this publishers will do almost anything to get into that wholesaler--who, BTW, does not accept publishers with fewer than ten books. That is why many small presses sign up with distributors whose books _are_ listed by the wholesaler. We do not meet the wholesaler's official requirements, but they have carried us since we had only one book and we have survived several purges of unprofitable and very small publishers. So I can tell you that wholesaler contractually demands a 55% discount and they do not negotiate. Bookstores prefer to order from as few sources as possible because it makes their accounting and order tracking a lot easier. They particularly like the 800-pound wholesaler mentioned above. Although they occasionally order direct from publishers, most prefer not to. Other types of retailers, such as reenactment suppliers, are more likely to order direct from a publisher. Amazon is a retailer, and they too order copiously from the 800-pound wholesaler. Consumers used to buy direct from those publishers who would sell to them direct, much more often than they do now. That is because many go where there is a discount, and they think first of Amazon. So, a great many books that were once sold at no discount to consumers are now sold at 55% to a wholesaler because the purchase is from Amazon, or Barnes & Noble, or a similar online discount store. To make up for this, publishers are raising their cover prices. Our Amazon orders, in fact a very large (and increasing) part of our orders overall, go through the 800-pound wholesaler. However, Amazon has a program called Amazon Advantage, for buying direct from publishers. We do not participate in it because, for one thing, there is little advantage to us. For another, we believe it is unfair competition for the small retailers we want to support as fellow businesses. In this program Amazon requires the wholesaler discount of 55%, which enables them to give consumers bigger discounts than retailers who get only 40%. The publisher is also allowed to list books with Amazon directly (we can't, Amazon can really screw up database entries, and they ignore all our corrections) and to post back cover copy and quotes from published reviews (we are not allowed to post marketing material). The big advantage, however, is for publishers who are not carried by the 800-pound wholesaler and for whom Advantage seems the only way to get into Amazon. There _ is _supposed to be a non-Advantage way to list with Amazon directly. But it is very obscure. And Amazon penalizes publishers who do that by announcing very long delivery times. Publishers who fill Amazon orders the day they get them have their books listed as "available in 4-6 weeks." Barnes & Noble online has a similar buying program (but we sell to them through the wholesaler). Some points: Every book is different, but a reduced price does not necessarily make any significant increase in sales. As far as I can tell we're selling almost exactly same number of books to almost exactly the same people; we just sell most at 55% off now. The math for this is complicated, but you actually have to sell a whole lot more books, not a few more, to make up for any significant price reduction. It does not work, at least for us, to give everyone a big discount because we can't afford it; we have to stagger our schedule. Publishers with schedules not based on the entity sold to, base the schedule on quantity, and few consumers want more than one copy of a book. The Amazon sales ranking system is so arcane no one seems to understand it, including Amazon employees. But it is clear that its tie to book sales is, well, tenuous. A publisher of a slow-selling book can move its rank 100,000 points or so by buying a handful of copies of their own book within an hour or so. I think it's silly, but some publishers do exactly that so they can advertise a better ranking, which they think results in real sales. As for our position on Amazon--we don't object to selling to the 800-pound wholesaler. They are quite reasonable to work with. We do feel Amazon is hard on some of the small retailers we sell to--which also means we don't get orders at 40% off from them, after they go under. Yes, Amazon is losing us money per book, but we're raising our cover prices as needed to make up for it. Which is the strategy of most other publishers. We are, BTW, doing extremely well and particularly with _Fashions of the Gilded Age_. I was afraid a higher cover price and two volumes would discourage sales (and used that format anyway because it was right for the content). But that has not happened. This has been our best year so far. We are actively working on another book, and have three others in the pipeline. (We don't announce our books before they are available, so all I'll say is we are not dedicated to producing a range of identical books for different eras, nor are we dedicated to any kind of chronological order.) So we're far from going out of business because of Amazon, or anything else. I'm just saying that Amazon has influenced the whole publishing industry, and not always in positive ways. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 11 03:16:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAB8GOsl000358 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 03:16:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAB8Fg4a028950 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 11 Nov 2004 01:15:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAB8FZFj006797; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 01:15:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm29.prodigy.net (ylpvm29-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.60]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAB8FWdf006772 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 01:15:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-91-128.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.91.128]) by ylpvm29.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAB8FPHY011327 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 03:15:26 -0500 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20041111000909.0345dcf8@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 00:11:12 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] treadling In-Reply-To: <51A3B7155A485548A47D068A9793C4FF059454D8@m-ncid-1.ncid.cdc .gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Second, to CarolynKayta, do a Google search for TreadleOn, Yeah, I really should do that. >If you need help identifying your machine parts, you can also turn to >ISMACS. I've been on that list for a while now, and joined when I got my chain-stitch Wilcox and Gibbs "treadle" machine (after-market electrified sometime before I was born). CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 11 06:18:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABBI6dQ007740 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 06:18:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iABBHN4a006524 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 11 Nov 2004 04:17:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABBHDe6088585; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 04:17:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net (smtp2.suscom.net [64.78.83.231]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABBHCtL088522 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 04:17:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (smtp2.suscom.net [127.0.0.1]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C30D11CDCE8 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 06:10:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp2 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 23612-10 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 06:10:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip194.182.235.64.susc.suscom.net [64.235.182.194]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 1F10D1CDCE3 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 06:10:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0c4701c4c7df$f8004c20$c2b6eb40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <29595715.1100144685044.JavaMail.root@misspiggy.psp.pas.earthlink.net> <007501c4c7ae$1b736200$cb6afea9@sherry> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT but cute Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 06:17:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 12:12 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT but cute > This is a Calgary (Alberta, Canada) based artist, he also did a suit for a > mouse. :-) > He used to play SCA there. This is the stuff he does for a living, and has > done for quite a few years now. > > Here's his site: > > http://www.jeffdeboer.com/home.html > > Sheridan > What a wonderful artist. I'm particularly fond of the 16th century Samurai Siamese. Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 11 06:33:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABBXZ64007872 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 06:33:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iABBX14a007150 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 11 Nov 2004 04:33:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABBWwRH095646; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 04:32:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABBWsee095615 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 04:32:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id iABBT0TA031475 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 06:29:00 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 06:28:59 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <41934DE5.1030107@thibault.org> Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 06:32:53 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] book selling and Amazon References: <51A3B7155A485548A47D068A9793C4FF059454CF@m-ncid-1.ncid.cdc.gov><1060.24.4.69.40.1100103355.squirrel@24.4.69.40> <41924332.7090703@lavoltapress.com><021701c4c749$698d3b60$0400a8c0@compaqub> <4192707F.9090509@lavoltapress.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-DCC-SPAMCHECK.NET-Metrics: net.indra.com 1168; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/581/Tue Nov 9 10:40:58 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO JAMES OGILVIE wrote: > Although I know some people come and browse the books I carry at events, write down the ISBNs and then go to Amazon in search of a discount I do this when traveling overseas -- why buy the book in London and haul it home, when I can get it later online somehow? Or maybe I see it and am not sure I want to shell out $50 for it right away. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 11 10:35:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABFZSKW014590 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 10:35:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iABFYh4a004773 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 11 Nov 2004 08:34:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABFYTtd026022; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 08:34:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.mc.surewest.net (smtp1.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.50]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iABFYPjM025979 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 08:34:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-27655); Thu, 11 Nov 2004 07:30:26 -0800 Received: from unknown (64.30.124.24) by smtp1.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 07:30:26 -0800 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20041111072710.00d497e0@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 07:34:20 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] wool/1560/tweed??? In-Reply-To: <20041110202002.51317.qmail@web51409.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200411101903.iAAJ2mg4072943@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp1 SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=64.30.124.24 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:20 PM 11/10/2004 -0800, you wrote: >Recently I read somewhere that wool tweed is an appropriate fabric for >merchant class 1560. Is this correct? My husband enjoys the look of tweed >and would love a tweed doublet. I have seen two distinctive types of tweed >one that looks mottled and one that's more plaid. Are they both >appropriate? Any sources or general info would be helpful if the naysayers >say nay to tweed! :-) Truly, > > Angelique I'm not certain about what we modernly call "tweed" (the mottled color, heathery yarn), but twill weaves are certainly period (in fact, they go back at least to the Iron Age textiles from Danish bogs). The word "tweed" is from the same root word as "twill", and may be used interchangably. So any references you may find probably refer to a twill-weave. I have not seen any references to what we call "plaid" (checked-pattern weaves) for 16th-century English. If you use a twill-woven wool in a rich solid color, you can't go wrong, and it would look wonderful. Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 11 10:50:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABFoVV0014923 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 10:50:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iABFnb4a006457 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 11 Nov 2004 08:49:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABFnVoM036014; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 08:49:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.mc.surewest.net (smtp1.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.50]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iABFnRes035950 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 08:49:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-32191); Thu, 11 Nov 2004 07:45:28 -0800 Received: from unknown (64.30.124.24) by smtp1.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 07:45:28 -0800 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20041111074413.00d3e100@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 07:49:23 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] Treadle sewing machines In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20041110133336.02ef4ea0@mail.katiesorchids.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20041110124355.0254fbd8@mail.frys.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20041110103617.02dd12f8@mail.katiesorchids.com> <51A3B7155A485548A47D068A9793C4FF059454CF@m-ncid-1.ncid.cdc .gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp1 SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=64.30.124.24 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 01:37 PM 11/10/2004 -0800, you wrote: >Do something - anything! > >Make sure that it's not an important project. You *will* make a lot of >errors as you get a feel for the machine -- how much treadle pressure and >when? How fast and when? Where in the treadle cycle disengages the feed >dogs while raising the needle so that you can turn the material (that's >the magic trick to treadle machine embroidery). > >Treadle machines take a while to get used to. They are much slower than >modern machines, but, oh, the control ... > >Katie > > >>I currently have a treadle machine I plan to use, but I'm somehow >>hesitant to do so, having grown up with powered machines. It was in >>classroom use till not long before I got it, so it's not like I'll break >>the machinery. It came with extra needles, so I'm not worried about >>breaking one of those. And it has several cool attachments I'd like to >>be using, along with the instruction manual to show me how. But it feels >>all new and different to me, so it has sat unused since I got it. (The >>cabinet is just the right height to use as a sewing table with my modern >>electric portable.) Any beginner's advice?= >> CarolynKayta Barrows I have the advantage that I learned on a White treadle machine (it had been my grandmother's, bought new in about 1916; unfortunately my Dad did not appreciate that I might want it and got rid of it when he bought my Mom a new electric machine while I was away in college). I have a c. 1904 model Singer that I bought used at a yard sale. It's a wonderful machine. The absolute speed control from a treadle is very useful, especially when doing curved seams. For many years all my machine-sewing was done on that Singer. Give it a try. Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 11 10:54:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABFsWeY015023 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 10:54:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iABFrs4a006931 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 11 Nov 2004 08:53:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABFrraM039150; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 08:53:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.25]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABFrn60039105 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 08:53:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) Received: from [192.168.167.44] (helo=wamui06.slb.atl.earthlink.net) by barry.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CSHGf-00013F-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 10:53:49 -0500 Message-ID: <7686165.1100188429441.JavaMail.root@wamui06.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 10:53:49 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Chris Laning To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] book selling and Amazon Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO James Ogilvie wrote: >Although I know some people come and browse the books I carry at >events, write down the ISBNs and then go to Amazon in search of a >discount, I still am very appreciative of them. The data-base of books >they have on-line, free for the taking has been so valuable to me that >I would pay for it if I had to. Of course, most of what I carry gets only >a small discount on Amazon, sometimes none at all and some things are >surcharged books. Most academic publishers' books are sold by them >at the full suggested retail price. I'm sure I would feel differently if I >was trying to compete with Border's, Barnes & Noble and them for the >lowest price on Stephen King or Atkins diet books. I agree 100%. Searching for something on Amazon is a fast way to discover whether something's still in print, for instance -- it's true that if they don't list it, that *doesn't* mean it's OOP, but if they *do* list it, they'll tell you whether it is or not. You can also easily find out publication dates, helpful in judging whether something's recent enough to be useful. Both the editorial reviews and the customer reviews are immensely helpful. Of course, not everyone who writes a review is an expert, but if you read several reviews you can get a pretty good idea of whether a book's going to be any good. Not *quite* as helpful as actually leafing through the physical book, but if you are lucky and the book is in print, you can do that too if they have sample chapters posted. I used to avoid their used-book services because they were always priced higher than going through Alibris or other online sellers -- but that's no longer true. Amazon also has other features helpful to customers -- their recommendations feature can be annoying because there's no way to tell it to stop showing you entire categories of books if you bought one, but their wish list is a good way to keep track of books you intend to buy when you get a chance but can't afford right now. ____________________________________________________________ 0 Chris Laning | + Davis, California ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 11 11:24:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABGOh1L015670 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 11:24:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iABGNm4a010141 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 11 Nov 2004 09:23:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABGNhEG061337; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 09:23:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-01-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (ms-smtp-01-smtplb.ohiordc.rr.com [65.24.5.135]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABGN2QG060818 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 09:23:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ailith@neo.rr.com) Received: from duncan (dhcp024-209-056-164.neo.rr.com [24.209.56.164]) by ms-smtp-01-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id iABGMwlw016861 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 11:23:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002301c4c80a$ae8fe2f0$1902a8c0@duncan> From: "ailith" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 11:22:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Fw: Death of an author X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > From another list: > > Dorothy Burnham, textiles archivist, formerly of the > Royal Ontario > Museum, > author of Cut my Cote and Warp and Weft, passed away > October 24. > Today's > Globe & Mail has a great obituary column feature on > her life's work. > > http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20041108/ > OBBURNHAM08/TPObituaries/?query=Dorothy+Burnham _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 11 11:59:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABGxtiL016399 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 11:59:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iABGxD4a013827 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 11 Nov 2004 09:59:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABGx62L088383; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 09:59:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.141]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iABGx0wr088250 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 09:59:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Nov 2004 16:58:54 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041111165422.0145e3a8@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 16:58:57 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] wool/1560/tweed??? In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20041111072710.00d497e0@pop.surewest.net> References: <20041110202002.51317.qmail@web51409.mail.yahoo.com> <200411101903.iAAJ2mg4072943@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 07:34 11/11/2004 -0800, you wrote: >At 12:20 PM 11/10/2004 -0800, you wrote: > >>Recently I read somewhere that wool tweed is an appropriate fabric for >>merchant class 1560. Is this correct? My husband enjoys the look of tweed >>and would love a tweed doublet. I have seen two distinctive types of >>tweed one that looks mottled and one that's more plaid. Are they both >>appropriate? Any sources or general info would be helpful if the >>naysayers say nay to tweed! :-) Truly, >> >> Angelique > >I'm not certain about what we modernly call "tweed" (the mottled color, >heathery yarn), but twill weaves are certainly period (in fact, they go >back at least to the Iron Age textiles from Danish bogs). The word >"tweed" is from the same root word as "twill", and may be used >interchangably. So any references you may find probably refer to a >twill-weave. I have not seen any references to what we call "plaid" >(checked-pattern weaves) for 16th-century English. If you use a >twill-woven wool in a rich solid color, you can't go wrong, and it would >look wonderful. I have seen check fabric samples from a medieval site, the so called "Baynard Castle" site. It was check because it had stripes both vertical and horizontal, for want of a better description. However, in no way did it resemble a modern plaid or tartan. All the fabrics were finer than modern tweed seems to be. That could be because there was not a representative sample in the midden, which is where these were found - if used for lavatorial purposes, obviously the finer pieces the better!! I have a funny feeling that the check on one piece was pink! But don't quote me, as I cannot find my notes from that day. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 11 12:07:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABH7Bpq016583 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 12:07:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iABH6S4a014563 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 11 Nov 2004 10:06:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABH6MtD094178; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 10:06:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABH6KW5094134 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 10:06:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-221.sonic.net [209.148.114.221]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iABH6IFC024194 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 09:06:18 -0800 Message-ID: <41939C0D.7060806@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 09:06:21 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] book selling and Amazon References: <7686165.1100188429441.JavaMail.root@wamui06.slb.atl.earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <7686165.1100188429441.JavaMail.root@wamui06.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Amazon does indeed offer a large selection--though, BTW, not every US book in print and readily available. I've been very enthused about their cross-association features that enable me to find books without ever running across them in a bookstore or reading any magazine reviews. Their customer reviews are a mixed bag but often useful. Consumers love their discounts. I often buy books there myself. I'm just saying that in the book industry Amazon is often perceived as lowering prices on a relatively temporary basis to put smaller retailers out of business, and this is in fact happening to some extent. They are also seen as being in a price war with Barnes & Noble and other online stores. Everything Amazon does is commented on by the publishing industry. However, I do not have any "inside information" on their strategies. Although a few of our long-time retailer customers have either gone out of business or quit carrying books in favor of other merchandise, we are not all that affected by it. We ourselves are not and never have been a retailer. For years now, most of our books have been sold to wholesalers, not consumers, libraries, or retailers. (Libraries prefer to buy through wholesalers, and there are some who cater entirely or mostly to libraries.) We've never had a brick-and-mortar store or sold books from a booth at a reenactment, or carried any other publisher's books. And we probably never will do any of those things. We are essentially a manufacturer. In the strictest technical sense, a "book manufacturer" is a firm that does printing and binding, but the point is we are a book producer, not in the industry sense a bookseller. So, all we really need to do is guess (though this is not easy) on what Amazon's long-term strategy really is (the other big online stores will probably copy it). The book industry may go in the direction of the software industry, where many list prices are fictional. Software dealers can say they are giving a discount; meanwhile they charge the real price of the software and about the same price as other dealers. All we'd need to do is raise all our list prices accordingly; and we have full control over that. I'm never thrilled about a few giants controlling an industry. But if giants are ever all we have left to sell to, we'll sell to them. In short I'm not saying Amazon is a "bad retailer" or that no one should buy from them. I buy books there myself. I'm just saying they're pushing the book industry in certain directions and publishers need strategies to deal with that. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com >I agree 100%. Searching for something on Amazon is a fast way to discover whether something's still in print, for instance -- it's true that if they don't list it, that *doesn't* mean it's OOP, but if they *do* list it, they'll tell you whether it is or not. You can also easily find out publication dates, helpful in judging whether something's recent enough to be useful. > >Both the editorial reviews and the customer reviews are immensely helpful. Of course, not everyone who writes a review is an expert, but if you read several reviews you can get a pretty good idea of whether a book's going to be any good. > >Amazon also has other features helpful to customers -- their recommendations feature can be annoying because there's no way to tell it to stop showing you entire categories of books if you bought one, but their wish list is a good way to keep track of books you intend to buy when you get a chance but can't afford right now. > >____________________________________________________________ >0 Chris Laning >| >+ Davis, California >____________________________________________________________ >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 11 13:00:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABI0VZS017812 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 13:00:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iABHx64a020529 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 11 Nov 2004 10:59:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABHwvxN037298; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 10:58:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.10.178]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iABHwkmA036924 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 10:58:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from smnco37@yahoo.co.uk) Received: (qmail 74889 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Nov 2004 17:58:40 -0000 Message-ID: <20041111175840.74887.qmail@web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [82.112.142.81] by web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 17:58:40 GMT Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 17:58:40 +0000 (GMT) From: julian wilson Subject: [h-cost] book selling by Amazon and Barnes & Noble To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <41939C0D.7060806@lavoltapress.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: fran@lavoltapress.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear List, these comments from Fran must touch a sore point with those living-history Bookbuyers on this and other Lists who live "the other side of the Pond"! In the UK. Like me, for example! I wonder how many Listers are even aware of the following............. For Books published in the USA, many - in fact most - UK retail Booksellers routinely charge the same prices in numerals that you pay in the USA, - with only the Currency Sign changed. This means that what you pay - say - US$15.95 for in the States, is offered to UK consumers at UK£15.95 [US$28.71 at the present Rate -of-Exchange!]; - when, by rights, the book should be offered to UK Readers at UK£8.90 approx [at the current Rate of Exchange] with a small "mark-up" to cover trans-Atllantic Shipping Costs, + O&P. Now, if the US Publishers are making a "fair-&-reasonable-Profit" at that retail-market-price of .US$15.95 from their own "home-Country Buying-Public; - who is creaming-off all that extra profit when the same book is sold to UK Readers at UK£15.95? I wouldn't mind betting that the US Publishers are not seeing any of that additional profit paid "over-the-counter" in the UK! OK, realistically, one expects a certain "mark-up" to cover Shipping, and Middlemens' profits, - but not as much as this! This cynical & profiteering system of "hidden overcharging" - now only slowly becoming public knowldeg amongst computer-literate Uk Bookbuyers, - has three immediate results. 1] UK Bookbuyers are being "ripped-off" when buying in the UK books published in the USA. 2] US Publishers are losing sales in the UK - because a certain proportion of potential UK Buyers will be looking at the high UK prices, and decide NOT TO BUY. 3] In relation to those of us who are UK re-enactors, and who would like to build-up our own personal Reference Libraries, - this "overcharging" practice has the further effect of limiting the numbers of Reference Books we can afford to purchase from our limited "disposable incomes". IMHO, this is a scandal - and it needs to be stopped. Julian Wilson, Re-enactor [aka "Governor Matthieu Besquer" of jersey, 1486-1497]; Historian and Master Artisan to The Companie of The Duyke's Leopards. in "olde" Jersey, 15 miles off the French Coast. Lavolta Press wrote: Amazon does indeed offer a large selection--though, BTW, not every US book in print and readily available. I've been very enthused about their cross-association features that enable me to find books without ever running across them in a bookstore or reading any magazine reviews. Their customer reviews are a mixed bag but often useful. Consumers love their discounts. I often buy books there myself. I'm just saying that in the book industry Amazon is often perceived as lowering prices on a relatively temporary basis to put smaller retailers out of business, and this is in fact happening to some extent. They are also seen as being in a price war with Barnes & Noble and other online stores. Everything Amazon does is commented on by the publishing industry. However, I do not have any "inside information" on their strategies. Although a few of our long-time retailer customers have either gone out of business or quit carrying books in favor of other merchandise, we are not all that affected by it. We ourselves are not and never have been a retailer. For years now, most of our books have been sold to wholesalers, not consumers, libraries, or retailers. (Libraries prefer to buy through wholesalers, and there are some who cater entirely or mostly to libraries.) We've never had a brick-and-mortar store or sold books from a booth at a reenactment, or carried any other publisher's books. And we probably never will do any of those things. We are essentially a manufacturer. In the strictest technical sense, a "book manufacturer" is a firm that does printing and binding, but the point is we are a book producer, not in the industry sense a bookseller. So, all we really need to do is guess (though this is not easy) on what Amazon's long-term strategy really is (the other big online stores will probably copy it). The book industry may go in the direction of the software industry, where many list prices are fictional. Software dealers can say they are giving a discount; meanwhile they charge the real price of the software and about the same price as other dealers. All we'd need to do is raise all our list prices accordingly; and we have full control over that. I'm never thrilled about a few giants controlling an industry. But if giants are ever all we have left to sell to, we'll sell to them. In short I'm not saying Amazon is a "bad retailer" or that no one should buy from them. I buy books there myself. I'm just saying they're pushing the book industry in certain directions and publishers need strategies to deal with that. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com --------------------------------- ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 11 13:43:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABIhEdx018816 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 13:43:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iABIgQ4a026135 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 11 Nov 2004 11:42:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABIg74u071880; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 11:42:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABIfua1071646 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 11:42:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-221.sonic.net [209.148.114.221]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iABIfqiS007332 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 10:41:53 -0800 Message-ID: <4193B274.9000403@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 10:41:56 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] book selling by Amazon and Barnes & Noble References: <20041111175840.74887.qmail@web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4193B1FB.6040804@lavoltapress.com> In-Reply-To: <4193B1FB.6040804@lavoltapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lavolta Press wrote: > >> these comments from Fran must touch a sore point with those >> living-history Bookbuyers on this and other Lists who live "the other >> side of the Pond"! In the UK. Like me, for example! > > > I buy a lot of foreign books myself, particularly from the UK. > >> >> >> This means that what you pay - say - US$15.95 for in the States, >> is offered to UK consumers at UK£15.95 [US$28.71 at the present Rate >> -of-Exchange!]; - when, by rights, the book should be offered to UK >> Readers at UK£8.90 approx [at the current Rate of Exchange] with a >> /small "/mark-up" to cover trans-Atllantic Shipping Costs, + O&P. > > > The publisher has zero control over a retailer's markup, whether the > retailer prices the book at less or more than the publisher's cover > price/list price. The publisher makes zero extra profit if the > retailer charges more. The publisher makes no less profit if the > retailer charges less. > The difference to the publisher is when the publisher's sales channel > changes--if the retailer buys from a wholesaler instead of the > publisher, or consumers buy from the retailer instead of the > publisher. Different discounts off the cover price are given to > different types of customers. However, this has nothing to do with the > price the retailer charges. > > >> >> Now, if the US Publishers are making a "fair-&-reasonable-Profit" at >> that retail-market-price of .US$15.95 from their own "home-Country >> Buying-Public; - who is creaming-off all that extra profit when the >> same book is sold to UK Readers at UK£15.95? > > > The UK retailer. > >> OK, realistically, one expects a certain "mark-up" to cover Shipping, >> and Middlemens' profits, - but not as much as this! > > > Overseas shipping is genuinely quite expensive, especially if the > book(s) cannot be shipped at a very slow rate. It is also more work to > order and fill orders--more questions as to shipping and payment > options and so on. > >> This cynical & profiteering system of "hidden overcharging" - now >> only slowly becoming public knowldeg amongst computer-literate Uk >> Bookbuyers, > > > I see this in a much more benign light. Book retailing is actually a > low margin business. And independent booksellers, as opposed to the > big chains, are often in it because they love books--but they have to > make a living too. > >> 1] UK Bookbuyers are being "ripped-off" when buying in the UK books >> published in the USA. > > > No one is ripping you off just because they charge more than you can > afford, or more than you think the merchandise is worth. They probably > have expenses you know nothing about. And it's perfectly fair for them > to make a profit over expenses. That's what they need to do to stay > in business. > No one is forcing you to buy their merchandise. You can buy it > elsewhere or choose not to buy it at all. If you do buy it, it is your > own free choice--not a rip-off. > > If their prices are too high, they are the ones that will either > adjust the prices or go out of business. However, they have their own > sales figures and you don't. If they are still making a profit your > custom and that of a few others may not matter. Sales are in the > aggregate, and one or two here and there are not crucial. > > >> 2] US Publishers are losing sales in the UK - because a certain >> proportion of potential UK Buyers will be looking at the high UK >> prices, and decide NOT TO BUY. > > > No matter how high the price is some people will buy. > There is a publishing pricing strategy--used often for academic, > medical, and law books, for example--that says, "OK, we've got an > inherently limited market for this book and will sell few copies. > Manufacturing a small run is quite expensive, so we'll have to assign > a high cover price. But the few people who will want this book > _really_ want or need it, so most will pay that price. And if we ever > reduced the price to $1.99 and put the book on every remainder table > in the country, hardly any additional people would buy it, because > we've just got a specialty market here." > > We are thinking of moving more in that direction. We have discovered > that people with a simple question or two, or who want everything > free, won't buy our books at any price. But people who are seriously > interested in costuming, whether professional or amateur, are quite > willing to pay. Our big question now is whether we should raise the > backlist book prices--a real nuisance, considering how many databases > they are in by now. > > >> 3] In relation to those of us who are UK re-enactors, and who would >> like to build-up our own personal Reference Libraries, - this >> "overcharging" practice has the further effect of limiting the >> numbers of Reference Books we can afford to purchase from our limited >> "disposable incomes". >> IMHO, this is a scandal - and it needs to be stopped. >> * >> * > > > I'm sorry, but for everyone there are things they can't afford. I'd > bet the person who owns a luxury yacht regrets they can't afford two. > But nobody owes you cheap books or cheap anything else--you have no > inherent right here. > > It's not a scandal, it's capitalism. It's how businesses work to stay > in business, to expand, to succeed. There's really nothing you can do > to change how capitalism works, outside of political measures. > > Fran Grimble > Lavolta Press > http://www.lavoltapress.com > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 11 13:49:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABInnfK018955 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 13:49:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iABImk4a026961 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 11 Nov 2004 11:48:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABImetF077573; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 11:48:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-118.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.118]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABImYOV077421 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 11:48:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by mail.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9054B425D5 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:19:57 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4193B3DF.1030003@reddawn.net> Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 12:47:59 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT book selling by Amazon and Barnes & Noble References: <20041111175840.74887.qmail@web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20041111175840.74887.qmail@web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO julian wilson wrote: > I wonder how many Listers are even aware of the following............. > For Books published in the USA, many - in fact most - UK retail Booksellers routinely charge the same prices in numerals that you pay in the USA, - with only the Currency Sign changed. > This means that what you pay - say - US$15.95 for in the States, is offered to UK consumers at UK£15.95 [US$28.71 at the present Rate -of-Exchange!]; - when, by rights, the book should be offered to UK Readers at UK£8.90 approx [at the current Rate of Exchange] with a small "mark-up" to cover trans-Atllantic Shipping Costs, + O&P. > It's not just books and it's not just the UK. I see similar 'markups' made on products in other hobbies which are sent to or bought from Canada, and I've seen UK vendors do it to American buyers as well. A typical complaint mirrors yours. "Why am I paying significantly more than the exchange rate?" My personal theory is that 1) there is more involved in the cost of doing business with a foreign partner, and 2) vendors charge what the market will bear. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 11 14:10:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABJAf1f019313 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:10:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iABJ9p4a029218 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 11 Nov 2004 12:09:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABJ9ggb093926; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 12:09:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:xTE6o0Lb1hTSAhKbKmAgG2ik2mqKCwZ2@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABJ9Lsh093687 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 12:09:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from webmail.patriot.net (vanburen.patriot.net [209.249.176.8]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id iABJ9LSd006693 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:09:21 -0500 Received: from dci012034013079.discovery.com ([12.34.13.79]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user aquazoo) by webmail.patriot.net with HTTP; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:09:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <56918.12.34.13.79.1100200161.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <4193B3DF.1030003@reddawn.net> References: <20041111175840.74887.qmail@web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4193B3DF.1030003@reddawn.net> Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:09:21 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT book selling by Amazon and Barnes & Noble From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-DCC-sonic.net-Metrics: net.indra.com 1117; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've noticed in general a higher cost-of-living in the UK vs US. Salaries seem to be lower for similar work, and prices higher. Meanwhile, a meal in a restaurant that would cost $20 in the US will cost £20.00. And the fact is, shipping is not cheap and books are heavy. Customs & import duties are added. One approach is to find a friend in the other country with similar interests, where you can by books for each other and send them (or bring them over) as gifts. -Carol julian wilson wrote: > This means that what you pay - say - US$15.95 for in the States, is > offered to UK consumers at UK£15.95 [US$28.71 at the present Rate > -of-Exchange!]; - when, by rights, the book should be offered to UK > Readers at UK£8.90 approx [at the current Rate of Exchange] with a small > "mark-up" to cover trans-Atllantic Shipping Costs, + O&P. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 11 14:23:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABJNh9l019549 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:23:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iABJMv4a000445 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 11 Nov 2004 12:22:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABJMqfs003956; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 12:22:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jalapeno.cc.columbia.edu (IDENT:cu41754@jalapeno.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.206.19]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABJMmXQ003916 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 12:22:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from asj2001@columbia.edu) Received: from VAIO (dyn-ec-195-18.dyn.columbia.edu [160.39.195.18]) (user=asj2001 mech=LOGIN bits=0) by jalapeno.cc.columbia.edu (8.13.0/8.13.0) with ESMTP id iABJMlVq020828 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:22:48 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003401c4c823$a4d157d0$9865fea9@VAIO> From: "Alexia S. Jacobs" To: Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:21:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-No-Spam-Score: Local X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.48 on 128.59.206.19 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] two 19th century underwear questions X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id iABJNh9l019549 Status: RO Two rather unrelated questions, actually. First. What sort of shift is correct to wear under a 1817ish ballgown? I know they are generally square-necked with short sleeves, but the sleeves of the ballgown bodice begin at the very outer tips of the shoulders. Should the chemise also have such a broad neckline? Should it simply be adjustable with a drawstring? Also, is this date too early for it to have a front flap? Second. Approximately how large would be appropriate for a 1865 elliptical hoopskirt for someone 5' 9" tall portraying a wealthy fashionable 21-year-old New Yorker? Height, class, and location suggest something on the larger side. Would it be fair in this case to base the hoop size on the skirts seen in contemporary fashion prints? Thank you for any suggestions. I really did look through dozens of books and websites before asking you this so please don't feel I am using you as a shortcut. Alexia _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 11 14:37:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABJbVEW019833 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:37:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iABJaa4a001451 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 11 Nov 2004 12:36:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABJaVm1013849; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 12:36:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm01.prodigy.net (ylpvm01-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.32]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABJaS0E013821 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 12:36:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-70-205.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.70.205]) by ylpvm01.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iABJaQFc010292 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:36:27 -0500 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20041111113357.0258dd80@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 11:36:22 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] two 19th century underwear questions In-Reply-To: <003401c4c823$a4d157d0$9865fea9@VAIO> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Second. Approximately how large would be appropriate for a 1865 >elliptical hoopskirt for someone 5' 9" tall portraying a wealthy >fashionable 21-year-old New Yorker? Height, class, and location suggest >something on the larger side. Would it be fair in this case to base the >hoop size on the skirts seen in contemporary fashion prints? Fashion prints always show skirts larger than photos from the same year do. Look for photos of fashionable New York women of this general time, and size your hoops in proportion to theirs. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 11 15:10:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABKAh50020555 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 15:10:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iABK9j4a005574 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 11 Nov 2004 13:09:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABK9ZAU038150; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 13:09:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail3.mdx.safepages.com (mail3.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.18]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABK9U7w037909 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 13:09:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail3.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id B4BF888F4B; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:09:16 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust181.tnt3.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.197.181]) by mail3.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id C31B388EBD for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:09:15 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <032701c4c82a$5e0f5020$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20041111113357.0258dd80@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] two 19th century underwear questions Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:09:35 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The photos at the LOC website should be a great help with c1865 photos--try: http://lcweb2.loc.gov/ammem/browse/ I noticed these collections quickly: http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/awhhtml/index.html (American women images) http://lcweb2.loc.gov/ammem/ndlpcoop/nhihtml/cwnyhshome.html (NY Civil War images) has at least a handful of images of women. -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 11 15:24:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABKOtAk020896 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 15:24:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iABKOL4a006845 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 11 Nov 2004 13:24:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABKODCc049057; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 13:24:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop.hevanet.com (pop.hevanet.com [198.5.254.15]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABKOBQC049032 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 13:24:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from wanda (ts03-ip73.hevanet.com [130.94.164.152]) by pop.hevanet.com (8.11.6p3/8.11.6p3) with SMTP id iABKO9H11384 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 12:24:09 -0800 (PST) From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 12:24:34 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <41934DE5.1030107@thibault.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] I love Amazon because... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I remember when it was impossible, or nearly so, for anyone living outside a major metropolitan area or in a non-English speaking country to get much beyond the best sellers and paperbacks. Even when Waldon Books and their ilk began to pop up it was hard. If you discovered Books In Print and all the wonderful books that your local library didn't have, you still were almost stopped from buying because, as Fran has said, publishers didn't want to sell in single volumes because they were as expensive to process as big orders. I remember how excited I was, when living in Germany, to find a company that would try and get you any book in print for only $1.00 plush shipping over the cover price. Spent some money like that, but nothing like the amount that I do through Amazon right now. I remember my first Pennsics (X-XX) and going nuts at the few booksellers there because the volumes, new and old were simply unobtainable anywhere else. I suspect there are many more titles available on SCA interests because publishers have found a place to sell, and buyers are able to take advantage of the variety. Fran can sell her books because people can find them there without having to know about some of the SCA specialty booksellers. I buy from local booksellers when I see a volume that I want at a price I can afford, even if it is a bit more expensive because I don't have to pay shipping. Love the sites like bookfinder.com, abebooks, etc. I frequently get books at far below their cover or Amazon price if they have been out very long. All these are things that were unimaginable only 20 years ago. Wanda > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Cynthia Virtue > Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 3:33 AM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] book selling and Amazon > > > JAMES OGILVIE wrote: > > > Although I know some people come and browse the books I carry at events, > write down the ISBNs and then go to Amazon in search of a discount > > I do this when traveling overseas -- why buy the book in London and haul > it home, when I can get it later online somehow? Or maybe I see it and > am not sure I want to shell out $50 for it right away. > > -- > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 11 15:30:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABKU8bG021078 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 15:30:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iABKTA4a007393 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 11 Nov 2004 13:29:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABKT9PN052728; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 13:29:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay11-dav57.bay11.hotmail.com [64.4.39.87]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABKT8pG052658 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 13:29:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bear_janet@msn.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 12:29:03 -0800 Received: from 4.10.34.107 by BAY11-DAV57.phx.gbl with DAV; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:28:38 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [4.10.34.107] X-Originating-Email: [bear_janet@msn.com] X-Sender: bear_janet@msn.com From: "JAMES OGILVIE" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20041111175840.74887.qmail@web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com><4193B1FB.6040804@lavoltapress.com> <4193B274.9000403@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] book selling by Amazon and Barnes & Noble Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 15:28:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 8.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V8.50.0017.1202 Seal-Send-Time: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 15:28:35 -0500 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Nov 2004 20:29:03.0367 (UTC) FILETIME=[158A1170:01C4C82D] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id iABKU8bG021078 Status: RO > No matter how high the price is some people will buy. > There is a publishing pricing strategy--used often for academic, > medical, and law books, for example--that says, "OK, we've got an > inherently limited market for this book and will sell few copies. > Manufacturing a small run is quite expensive, so we'll have to assign > a high cover price. But the few people who will want this book > _really_ want or need it, so most will pay that price. And if we ever > reduced the price to $1.99 and put the book on every remainder table > in the country, hardly any additional people would buy it, because > we've just got a specialty market here." Actually, this reasoning is not all that great, although perhaps the problem lies in the inability of academic publishers to realize what books have a greater market than they realize. There are probably hundreds of titles that I would sell more of if they were more reasonably priced. A number of books I don't carry at all. Eventually some of them do show up at the remainder wholesaler and I will bet my $1.99 on how many people will want it. Occasionally, I will get stuck with something so esoteric that I end up having to give it away but other times they will go like the proverbial hotcakes. To bring this back to costume content, several years back, when I saw her at Kalamazoo Medieval Conference, Gale Owen-Crocker was planning on having her updated edition of Dress in Anglo-Saxon England published by scholastically prestigious academic press that usually does a print run of 200 or 300 copies and prices the books at over $100 for a plain hardback with no color pictures. I was enormously relieved to hear she ended up at Brewer & Boydell, who have some kind of clue. Their price of $50 is still not cheap, but it is not outrageous for 400 pages with a few color plates and 140 drawings. Now if they'd only get the damn thing printed! (Publication was scheduled for October but it still hasn't been released.) Janet Janet Davis Castle Furnishings www.medievalbookstore.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 11 15:44:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABKi00r021379 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 15:44:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iABKhE4a008810 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 11 Nov 2004 13:43:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABKh8mu063453; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 13:43:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABKh2uu063363 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 13:43:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02191 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:53:29 -0600 Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:53:28 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] book selling by Amazon and Barnes & Noble In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 11 Nov 2004, JAMES OGILVIE wrote: > To bring this back to costume content, several years back, when I saw > her at Kalamazoo Medieval Conference, Gale Owen-Crocker was planning > on having her updated edition of Dress in Anglo-Saxon England > published by scholastically prestigious academic press that usually > does a print run of 200 or 300 copies and prices the books at over > $100 for a plain hardback with no color pictures. I was enormously > relieved to hear she ended up at Brewer & Boydell, who have some kind > of clue. Their price of $50 is still not cheap, but it is not > outrageous for 400 pages with a few color plates and 140 drawings. Boydell & Brewer has recognized the enormous size of the re-enactor and hobbyist market in medieval studies. They're the press that took over the MoL finds books, "Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince," and other similar material culture books -- and they're producing them in numbers and at prices that will tap the non-academic market. They also are the publisher of the new Medieval Clothing & Textiles journal, which they asked Gale and me to edit. (First issue due out in spring.) Gale is as thrilled to be with B&B for the reprint of "Dress in Anglo-Saxon England" as they are to have her, I think. > Now if they'd only get the damn thing printed! (Publication was > scheduled for October but it still hasn't been released.) Gale showed me some proofs months ago. It needed a lot of typo fixes at that stage, which probably is what held it up. I'll let you know when I hear more. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 11 16:29:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABLTWEC022387 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 16:29:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iABLSS4a013522 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:28:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABLSG00098937; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:28:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop.hevanet.com (pop.hevanet.com [198.5.254.15]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABLSCFG098883 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:28:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from wanda (ts03-ip73.hevanet.com [130.94.164.152]) by pop.hevanet.com (8.11.6p3/8.11.6p3) with SMTP id iABLSAH55878 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 13:28:10 -0800 (PST) From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] book selling by Amazon and Barnes & Noble Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 13:28:36 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <20041111175840.74887.qmail@web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Julian, From your posts I would be the first to find it a shame if you couldn't buy the books you need to keep us informed. I'm puzzled though. I buy books from Amazon.uk.com all the time. Frequently the same title is available from them Cheaper (!) than from Amazon.com even including shipping. I bought the Cambridge History of Food, an enormous two volume set, for nearly $25 less. I've bought all the Harry Potter books from them so I could check on differences in wording, i.e. bangs in the US for fringe in England. They have gotten here to Oregon (left coast US) in only about a week. When I was in Germany I was horrified to learn that customs charges are put on books coming into the country. I was always careful to have UK sellers send books I ordered to friends on US bases there so they could be shipped via the military's post office (still charged the US postal rate) so I didn't have to pay customs to bring in books. Does England have a customs duty on books? Regina Romsey > > Dear List, > these comments from Fran must touch a sore point with those > living-history Bookbuyers on this and other Lists who live "the > other side of the Pond"! In the UK. Like me, for example! > > I wonder how many Listers are even aware of the following............. > For Books published in the USA, many - in fact most - UK retail > Booksellers routinely charge the same prices in numerals that you > pay in the USA, - with only the Currency Sign changed. > This means that what you pay - say - US$15.95 for in the > States, is offered to UK consumers at UK£15.95 [US$28.71 at the > present Rate -of-Exchange!]; - when, by rights, the book should > be offered to UK Readers at UK£8.90 approx [at the current Rate > of Exchange] with a small "mark-up" to cover trans-Atllantic > Shipping Costs, + O&P. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 11 16:34:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABLYB1O022492 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 16:34:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iABLXI4a014027 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:33:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABLXIDb002904; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:33:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABLXEon002850 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:33:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-241.sonic.net [209.148.113.241]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iABLX6RM024672 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 13:33:11 -0800 Message-ID: <4193DA96.5060305@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 13:33:10 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] book selling by Amazon and Barnes & Noble References: <20041111175840.74887.qmail@web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com><4193B1FB.6040804@lavoltapress.com> <4193B274.9000403@lavoltapress.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Actually, this reasoning is not all that great, although perhaps the problem lies in the inability of academic publishers to realize what books have a greater market than they realize. > Every publisher I know, including academic ones, is eager to find every market conceivable. However, sometimes they have to choose between the academic market and a less profitable more mainstream market. In other words, sometimes a greater profit can be made by concentrating on one market, and be willing to lose many or most members of another market. > There are probably hundreds of titles that I would sell more of if they were more reasonably priced. > But, from the publisher's point of view, sell to how many people? It could well take thousands of additional sales to make up for any significant reduction in cover price. Even in the SCA, not every member is interested in every specialist topic. Some people are primarily interested in costume, some in cooking, some in music, etc. And with an in-depth or advanced book, some people are just not interested in the topic at that level. There is always a bigger beginner market. Norris's books appeal to significantly more people than _Fashions in the Age of the Black Prince._ And a very serious costumer for the Elizabethan era may not be interested in the _Black Prince_ book either. This is not a value judgment on any of the books; but they are for different markets even within the reenactment community. I'm not saying one person may not buy many different types of books. I do myself. But many people have a narrow range of interest and don't want to buy anything outside it. And although the reenactment market is now recognized as _being_ a market--and it wasn't when I published my first book--it's not, and never will be, anywhere near the size of the market for a truly popular book. Such as a book on job hunting or the latest bestselling novel. > A number of books I don't carry at all. Eventually some of them do show up at the remainder wholesaler and I will bet my $1.99 on how many people will want it. Occasionally, I will get stuck with something so esoteric that I end up having to give it away but other times they will go like the proverbial hotcakes. > > That doesn't mean the publisher can afford to publish the books with a $1.99 cover price. The costs of editing, illustrations (creation or permissions to use), proofreading, indexing, translation (sometimes), cover design, book design, page layout, proofs, printing, binding, shipping, warehousing, office rent, employee salaries or freelancer payments, computer equipment, and yet more expenses are all very real. So are the tens of thousands of dollars that go to the printer. So are publicity and marketing costs. So is the 80% discount the publisher may have to give a distributor to (ultimately) get into bookstores, or the 55% discount the publisher otherwise probably has to give the 800-pound wholesaler who dominates the industry. There are also two very different publishing strategies. The large-sized, and often the medium-sized, press strategy is to give most books only a year or two in print. To save marketing costs, a handful of books are targeted as the publisher's bestsellers for that season and marketed more heavily than the others. Not surprisingly, they tend to sell better. The other books are given a small catalog entry and left to sink or swim. They are more or less expected to just break even. The targeted bestsellers are expected to "carry" them and provide the profit. Large publishers publish hundreds of books per year. When the book has had its year or two and broken even, or looks like a total flop that never will, and there are copies left, the publisher may clear them out of the warehouse, sell them to a remainder dealer, and use the space for new books. (If the book has instead been a major sucess, the publisher will reprint it.) The other type of book that gets remaindered is the time-sensitive book. Technical and legal books that get too outdated for use, celebrity bios after everyone gets bored with the celebrity. Defective books sometimes get remaindered, but often they are pulped. The small press strategy is usually never to remainder anything, as long as the press is in business. Small presses publish small numbers of books, don't need to push books out of the warehouse to make room, and market all their titles pretty evenly. They often publish "evergreens," that is books that don't quickly become outdated. >Gale Owen-Crocker was planning on having her updated edition of Dress in Anglo-Saxon England published by scholastically prestigious academic press that usually does a print run of 200 or 300 copies and prices the books at over $100 for a plain hardback with no color pictures. > A print run of 200 or 300 copies is really expensive to produce. All the pre-printing costs are as high as if you published 20,000 copies, and the print run itself is very expensive per copy. Most offset printers would refuse the job. > I was enormously relieved to hear she ended up at Brewer & Boydell, who have some kind of clue. Their price of $50 is still not cheap, but it is not outrageous for 400 pages with a few color plates and 140 drawings. Now if they'd only get the damn thing printed! > > It's a very reasonable cover price for a rather long and high-quality book. But it's a specialty book that will never be popular in the mainstream market. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 11 17:07:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABM7AGw023346 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 17:07:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iABM6d4a017250 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 11 Nov 2004 15:06:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABM6Ukb028067; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 15:06:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.cyberonic.com [4.17.179.4]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABM6RqQ027952 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 15:06:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Katie@katiesorchids.com) Received: from KATIE.katiesorchids.com (node-40240b01.sjc.onnet.us.uu.net [64.36.11.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id iABM7tVF028136 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 17:07:55 -0500 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20041111135936.02ba7008@mail.katiesorchids.com> X-Sender: katie@katiesorchids.com@mail.katiesorchids.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:06:20 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Katie Pleasance Subject: Re: [h-cost] book selling by Amazon and Barnes & Noble In-Reply-To: <4193DA96.5060305@lavoltapress.com> References: <20041111175840.74887.qmail@web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4193B1FB.6040804@lavoltapress.com> <4193B274.9000403@lavoltapress.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I frequently buy books for more than $100US. These are typically highly specialized, *very*-limited-market books. How many people do you know that are interested in Oxford University books on sheep genetics and on sheep lambing prolificacy? Together, those two books cost me more than $300US. Am I angry at Oxford University for charging so much? No way! There are so few people in the world who are interested in those topics at that academic level that I bet the publication costs are subsidized even at that cover price. Katie At 01:33 PM 11/11/2004 -0800, you wrote: >>Actually, this reasoning is not all that great, although perhaps the >>problem lies in the inability of academic publishers to realize what >>books have a greater market than they realize. >Every publisher I know, including academic ones, is eager to find every >market conceivable. However, sometimes they have to choose between the >academic market and a less profitable more mainstream market. In other >words, sometimes a greater profit can be made by concentrating on one >market, and be willing to lose many or most members of another market. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 11 17:19:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABMJ1Hx023441 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 17:19:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iABMIG4a018351 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 11 Nov 2004 15:18:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABMI5c6036382; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 15:18:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from priv-edtnes84.telusplanet.net (defout.telus.net [199.185.220.240]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABMHwUQ036215 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 15:17:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from edieann@telus.net) Received: from moms ([154.5.142.106]) by priv-edtnes84.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.03 201-2131-111-105-20040624) with SMTP id <20041111221748.SDFS28368.priv-edtnes84.telusplanet.net@moms> for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 15:17:48 -0700 Message-ID: <003c01c4c83b$c28c0b40$6a8e059a@bc.hsia.telus.net> From: "Edith Reardon" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20041111175840.74887.qmail@web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4193B3DF.1030003@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT book selling by Amazon and Barnes & Noble Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:14:06 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It's not just books and it's not just the UK. I see similar 'markups' made on products in other hobbies which are sent to or bought from Canada, and I've seen UK vendors do it to American buyers as well. A typical complaint mirrors yours. "Why am I paying significantly more than the exchange rate?" My personal theory is that 1) there is more involved in the cost of doing business with a foreign partner, and 2) vendors charge what the market will bear. Dawn I find that shipping charges from book sellers such as a Amazon.com or Alibris are often $9.00 us for one book to Canada. If I contact the used book seller directly I can often get this reduced to $5 or $6 us. I find books are often more expensive on Amazon.ca than Amazon.com and can save money buying from the USA. These books are all shipped from their Canadian warehouse so I still don't pay duty but I still pay the expensive shipping. I looked up a book the other day and the difference was over $20.00 Canadian why??? I never use UPS as their charges for just clearing the parcel are terrible $20 to $30 just for looking at the parcel. The Canada Post only charges me $5 to clear parcels and then only if duty is owing. I often buy books from Canadian Clearance Houses and use Amazon to check content, reviews, and comparing prices. Brin Kendall _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 11 17:38:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABMcVkw023721 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 17:38:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iABMbQ4a020118 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 11 Nov 2004 15:37:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABMbIpq050532; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 15:37:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABMbAcB050423 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 15:37:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-241.sonic.net [209.148.113.241]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iABMb7UX001393 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:37:08 -0800 Message-ID: <4193E997.4050304@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:37:11 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT book selling by Amazon and Barnes & Noble References: <20041111175840.74887.qmail@web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4193B3DF.1030003@reddawn.net> <003c01c4c83b$c28c0b40$6a8e059a@bc.hsia.telus.net> In-Reply-To: <003c01c4c83b$c28c0b40$6a8e059a@bc.hsia.telus.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >I find that shipping charges from book sellers such as a Amazon.com or >Alibris are often $9.00 us for one book to Canada. If I contact the used >book seller directly I can often get this reduced to $5 or $6 us. > > Amazon at least used to dictate what their Marketplace sellers charged for shipping. Their charges were based on an "average" weight book. Obviously the specific book may weigh less or more. I think Alibris shipping is flat per book too but would have to check. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 11 17:46:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABMktGq023855 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 17:46:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iABMjw4a021006 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 11 Nov 2004 15:45:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABMjocp056923; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 15:45:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iABMi8Cp055601 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 15:44:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-241.sonic.net [209.148.113.241]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iABMi7Qi003525 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:44:07 -0800 Message-ID: <4193EB3B.5020606@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:44:11 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] book selling by Amazon and Barnes & Noble References: <20041111175840.74887.qmail@web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4193B1FB.6040804@lavoltapress.com> <4193B274.9000403@lavoltapress.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20041111135936.02ba7008@mail.katiesorchids.com> In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20041111135936.02ba7008@mail.katiesorchids.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Not many, I'd guess. Although--for academic books university libraries can be a very important market. I'm not saying libraries are entirely price insensitive. But they do not view purchases the same way a consumer does. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Katie Pleasance wrote: > I frequently buy books for more than $100US. These are typically > highly specialized, *very*-limited-market books. How many people do > you know that are interested in Oxford University books on sheep > genetics and on sheep lambing prolificacy? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 11 20:27:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAC1RHt5025065 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:27:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAC1QL4a005296 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 11 Nov 2004 18:26:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAC1Q9KD063344; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 18:26:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAC1Q0M6063245 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 18:26:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iAC2TAKm015981 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 21:29:13 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] book selling by Amazon and Barnes & Noble Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:41:02 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200411112041.02749.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 11 November 2004 3:53 pm, Robin Netherton wrote: [snip] > > Now if they'd only get the damn thing printed! (Publication was > > scheduled for October but it still hasn't been released.) > > Gale showed me some proofs months ago. It needed a lot of typo fixes at > that stage, which probably is what held it up. I'll let you know when I > hear more. Boydell & Brewer's web site now claims it's coming out November 30, but of course that may at best be over optimistic. :-) -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 11 20:52:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAC1q1fF025228 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:52:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAC1p54a006943 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 11 Nov 2004 18:51:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAC1p2rK076075; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 18:51:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAC1oxbY076029 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 18:51:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id iAC1l4TA002971 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:47:04 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:47:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <41941702.4040401@thibault.org> Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:50:58 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] More 1661 costume notes: laces X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Monday 11 November 1661 http://www.pepysdiary.com/archive/1661/11/11/index.php [...]Thence to the Wardrobe to dinner, and there by appointment met my wife, who had by my direction brought some laces for my Lady to choose one for her. And after dinner I went away, and left my wife and ladies together, and all their work was about this lace of hers. [...] So to the Wardrobe, where I found my Lady had agreed upon a lace for my wife of 6/. [I don't know what symbol '/.' is failing to represent], which I seemed much glad of that it was no more, though in my mind I think it too much, and I pray God keep me so to order myself and my wife’s expenses that no inconvenience in purse or honour follow this my prodigality. So by coach home. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 11 21:42:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAC2gomV025543 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 21:42:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAC2gE4a010316 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 11 Nov 2004 19:42:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAC2g6wk002716; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 19:42:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAC2fxOD002651 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 19:42:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iAC3jBvg017585 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 22:45:13 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT book selling by Amazon and Barnes & Noble Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 21:57:03 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <20041111175840.74887.qmail@web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4193B3DF.1030003@reddawn.net> <56918.12.34.13.79.1100200161.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <56918.12.34.13.79.1100200161.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Message-Id: <200411112157.03443.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id iAC2fxOD002651 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 11 November 2004 2:09 pm, aquazoo@patriot.net wrote: > I've noticed in general a higher cost-of-living in the UK vs US. > Salaries seem to be lower for similar work, and prices higher. > Meanwhile, a meal in a restaurant that would cost $20 in the US will > cost £20.00. I can't speak for salaries, since I've never lived in the UK, but your observation about the relative prices of restaurant meals in the US vs. the UK was just as true when I first visited the UK in 1990. -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 11 22:10:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAC3AN7N025692 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 22:10:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAC39Z4a012099 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:09:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAC39UPp016350; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:09:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAC39Rka016328 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:09:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iAC4Ch6G018157 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 23:12:43 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] wool/1560/tweed??? Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 22:24:35 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <200411101903.iAAJ2mg4072943@net.indra.com> <4.2.2.20041111072710.00d497e0@pop.surewest.net> In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20041111072710.00d497e0@pop.surewest.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200411112224.35037.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 11 November 2004 10:34 am, Joan Jurancich wrote: [snip] > I'm not certain about what we modernly call "tweed" (the mottled color, > heathery yarn), but twill weaves are certainly period (in fact, they go > back at least to the Iron Age textiles from Danish bogs). Yup. The scary part is that some of the patterns can still be found in Harris Tweeds of similar weave. I have a Harris Tweed jacket (sadly frayed at the edges alas) that is a houndstooth check amazingly reminiscent of Fig. 76 in Ancient Danish Textiles from Bogs and Burials, except that the contrast effect supposedly was achieved in the bog find with yarn of a different twist, instead of with dye. -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 11 22:23:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAC3NDum025842 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 22:23:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAC3MO4a012895 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:22:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAC3MItr022676; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:22:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAC3MDVm022618 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:22:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iAC4PUE4018411 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 23:25:31 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] book selling by Amazon and Barnes & Noble Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 22:37:22 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200411112237.22787.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 11 November 2004 3:53 pm, Robin Netherton wrote: [snip] > Boydell & Brewer has recognized the enormous size of the re-enactor and > hobbyist market in medieval studies. They're the press that took over the > MoL finds books, "Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince," and other > similar material culture books -- and they're producing them in numbers > and at prices that will tap the non-academic market. They also are the > publisher of the new Medieval Clothing & Textiles journal, which they > asked Gale and me to edit. (First issue due out in spring.) Gale is as > thrilled to be with B&B for the reprint of "Dress in Anglo-Saxon England" > as they are to have her, I think. I am happy they have her, too. Having finally obtained and read the first edition of "Dress in Anglo-Saxon England", and having learned from B&B's website what some of the new content of the second ed. will be, I am lusting eagerly to get the book. I am also eager to see the Medieval Clothing & Textiles journal. I put a lot of stock in your judgment and your scholarship, Robin, so I feel sure it will be excellent. -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 11 23:00:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAC40F9F026134 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 23:00:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAC3xd4a016018 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:59:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAC3xTvQ040120; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:59:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAC3xQIq040083 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:59:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iAC52dmp019231 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 00:02:40 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] book selling and Amazon Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 23:14:31 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <7686165.1100188429441.JavaMail.root@wamui06.slb.atl.earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <7686165.1100188429441.JavaMail.root@wamui06.slb.atl.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200411112314.31178.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 11 November 2004 10:53 am, Chris Laning wrote: > James Ogilvie wrote: > >Although I know some people come and browse the books I carry at > >events, write down the ISBNs and then go to Amazon in search of a > >discount, I still am very appreciative of them. Frankly, I'm not impressed with Amazon's discounts. I've often done better at b&n.com or on EBay. half.com and even walmart.com (yes, the website of the infamous Walmart chain--you'd be surprised what costume books they carry) have shown much better prices than Amazon on books in which I'm interested. > >The data-base of books > >they have on-line, free for the taking has been so valuable to me that > >I would pay for it if I had to. Amazon provides two services I like and use. One is their system of customer reviews, as you mention below (in the parts snipped). I've often found their reviews helpful and have from time to time contributed to the review database myself. The other is their "Wish List" feature, which I use when giving relatives hints about what to get me for holiday presents. [snip] > Both the editorial reviews and the customer reviews are immensely helpful. > Of course, not everyone who writes a review is an expert, but if you read > several reviews you can get a pretty good idea of whether a book's going to > be any good. That's true. More importantly, you can usually find a review that's says enough about the book that you can figure out *how* and *why* it's likely to be bad or good from your perspective. > Not *quite* as helpful as actually leafing through the > physical book, but if you are lucky and the book is in print, you can do > that too if they have sample chapters posted. I agree. > I used to avoid their used-book services because they were always priced > higher than going through Alibris or other online sellers -- but that's no > longer true. I still avoid Amazon's used book services, but not because of price. I avoid them because I've yet to succeed at actually getting a used book through them. In the beginning, I would put in requests for them to search for used books for me, and wait and wait and wait, until I realized that the fact that those books were on Amazon's list meant, "If we ever see a copy, we'll send it to you." I hoped to do much better once Amazon started an actual network for selling used copies of books (i.e., the "x number of Used copies available from $x.00"). So I purchased one, only to discover when the seller contacted me that the book he actually had to sell was a totally different book by the same author as the book I wanted; Amazon had an error in its listing that had not gotten corrected, as a previous poster has noted. As I've said, I'm sure many people do fine with Amazon, but I have had bad luck with buying used books from them, and see no reason to try to do so when I can get such books elsewhere. > Amazon also has other features helpful to customers -- their > recommendations feature can be annoying because there's no way to tell it > to stop showing you entire categories of books if you bought one, but their > wish list is a good way to keep track of books you intend to buy when you > get a chance but can't afford right now. And sometimes they recommend a book I would want and might not otherwise have heard of. That's why I check their site every once in a while. -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 11 23:18:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAC4IagQ026281 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 23:18:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAC4Hu4a017106 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 11 Nov 2004 21:17:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAC4HqGc048234; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 21:17:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAC4HotH048223 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 21:17:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-241.sonic.net [209.148.113.241]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iAC4Hj2M014529 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:17:46 -0800 Message-ID: <4194396E.3010809@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:17:50 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] book selling and Amazon References: <7686165.1100188429441.JavaMail.root@wamui06.slb.atl.earthlink.net> <200411112314.31178.cathy@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: <200411112314.31178.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >walmart.com (yes, the website of the >infamous Walmart chain--you'd be surprised what costume books they carry) >have shown much better prices than Amazon on books in which I'm interested. > > > I think Wal-Mart, and some other surprising venues, use the database of the giant wholesaler I mentioned. This does not mean Wal-Mart lists every book in print, but it's still an enormous and varied selection. There's no evaluation process, and no purchasing risk, because they don't stock the books. They back order from the wholesaler. Which is what Amazon and Barnes&Noble.com and most of the other big online stores do most of the time. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 11 23:56:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAC4ub8E026470 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 23:56:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAC4tq4a020276 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 11 Nov 2004 21:55:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAC4tjCw067237; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 21:55:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAC4tgEB067221 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 21:55:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iAC5wxFM020505 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 00:59:00 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] book selling and Amazon Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 00:10:51 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <7686165.1100188429441.JavaMail.root@wamui06.slb.atl.earthlink.net> <200411112314.31178.cathy@thyrsus.com> <4194396E.3010809@lavoltapress.com> In-Reply-To: <4194396E.3010809@lavoltapress.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200411120010.51940.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 11 November 2004 11:17 pm, Lavolta Press wrote: [snip] > I think Wal-Mart, and some other surprising venues, use the database of > the giant wholesaler I mentioned. This does not mean Wal-Mart lists > every book in print, but it's still an enormous and varied selection. > There's no evaluation process, and no purchasing risk, because they > don't stock the books. They back order from the wholesaler. Which is > what Amazon and Barnes&Noble.com and most of the other big online stores > do most of the time. Ah, so that's how they do it. Thanks for the insight. -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 12 00:18:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAC5IaUd026576 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 00:18:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAC5Hx4a021494 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 11 Nov 2004 22:17:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAC5HqJt076315; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 22:17:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAC5HoAa076293 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 22:17:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA05341 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 23:28:18 -0600 Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 23:28:17 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] book selling by Amazon and Barnes & Noble In-Reply-To: <200411112237.22787.cathy@thyrsus.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 11 Nov 2004, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > I am also eager to see the Medieval Clothing & Textiles journal. I > put a lot of stock in your judgment and your scholarship, Robin, so I > feel sure it will be excellent. Thank you :-) I am really quite nervous, as it is not in my hands right now. I await proofs. Meanwhile articles are coming in for the second volume this month. It's a scholarly journal, so we don't expect it to appeal to all medieval costumers, and not everyone will find their own interest areas covered in every issue. But we're aiming for a large spread in time/place representation each time, so with luck there will be something for most readers who are interested in scholarly research. I don't think I'm overstepping to tell you what's in the first volume: -- an overview (complete, we hope) of all known examples of European embroidery before 1100 (Elizabeth Coatsworth) -- a literary analysis of textile imagery in Anglo-Saxon riddles and poetry (Maren Clegg-Hyer) -- a study of an illumination showing royal dress in an Anglo-Saxon manuscript (Gale R. Owen-Crocker) -- a look at clothing color references in Icelandic sagas (Sandra Ballif Straubhaar) -- an account of a particular technological change in the construction of medieval fulling mills (John Muendel) -- two different papers on regulations on clerical dress, 13th-14th c. (one by Susan M. Carroll-Clark and another by Thomas M. Izbicki) -- a comparison of theories about tippet construction and attachment in 14th century W. Europe (Robin Netherton) -- a summary of dress and textile references in a group of late medieval English wills (Kristen M. Burkholder) -- a theory and experimental reconstruction of a method of weaving 15th century ruffled-edge veils (Carla Tilghman). Upcoming: Nalbinding. Flea furs. Early medieval brooches. 9th c. Irish royal dress. References to weaving in French romances. 12th-13th c. French embroiderers. Almspurses and the Parisian cloth trade. 15th c. Italian wool production. Fabric cleaning in 15th c. Germany. Elizabethan embroidered jackets. Or other fun stuff. (We can't be sure exactly what the combination will be for a given issue till we've got everything in hand.) Looks like I'll be busy for the foreseeable future. --Robin not sewing much these days (so why do I still keep buying fabric?) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 12 01:12:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAC6CEAH026875 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 01:12:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAC6BY4a024415 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 11 Nov 2004 23:11:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAC6BSoZ098765; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 23:11:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth03.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth03.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAC6BPul098710 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 23:11:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [4.152.222.20] (helo=MOM) by smtpauth03.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CSUea-0005w2-9W for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 01:11:24 -0500 Message-ID: <004501c4c87e$70de7c40$0200a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <7686165.1100188429441.JavaMail.root@wamui06.slb.atl.earthlink.net><200411112314.31178.cathy@thyrsus.com><4194396E.3010809@lavoltapress.com> <200411120010.51940.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] book selling and Amazon Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 01:11:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 140fedcc4d524cc6b18d26c2e407058b94f5150ab1c16ac0549fb11073be4ad3858e9fbd8f7ebca0593c543bc5722800350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.152.222.20 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id iAC6CEAH026875 Status: RO I actually like buying used books on Amazon. I have gotten some great deals there! Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Online Reference Library, AND Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumegallery.com/research.htm www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 12 01:20:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAC6Kp1D026917 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 01:20:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAC6K54a024821 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 11 Nov 2004 23:20:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAC6Jwcs002737; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 23:19:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.196]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iAC6Jsng002658 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 23:19:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Nov 2004 06:19:49 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041112061753.0145e780@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 06:19:53 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] More 1661 costume notes: laces In-Reply-To: <41941702.4040401@thibault.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 20:50 11/11/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Monday 11 November 1661 > >http://www.pepysdiary.com/archive/1661/11/11/index.php > >[...]Thence to the Wardrobe to dinner, and there by appointment met my >wife, who had by my direction brought some laces for my Lady to choose one >for her. And after dinner I went away, and left my wife and ladies >together, and all their work was about this lace of hers. > >[...] So to the Wardrobe, where I found my Lady had agreed upon a lace for >my wife of 6/. [I don't know what symbol '/.' is failing to represent], >which I seemed much glad of that it was no more, though in my mind I think >it too much, and I pray God keep me so to order myself and my wife's >expenses that no inconvenience in purse or honour follow this my >prodigality. So by coach home. The symbol is the pre decimal sign for shilling(s) /- so 6/- is six shillings in old money, roughly 30 pence in decimal. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 12 01:27:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAC6RNt7026955 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 01:27:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAC6Qk4a025148 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 11 Nov 2004 23:26:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAC6QgF7005436; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 23:26:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth03.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth03.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAC6QfDa005427 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 23:26:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [4.152.222.20] (helo=MOM) by smtpauth03.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CSUtM-0002Ez-Np for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 01:26:41 -0500 Message-ID: <000801c4c880$92f586f0$0200a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 01:26:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 140fedcc4d524cc6b18d26c2e407058b94f5150ab1c16ac0549fb11073be4ad31f0e1a361593920e323e3cfbd523f9ec350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.152.222.20 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 50s Tulle Petticoats X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id iAC6RNt7026955 Status: RO I am costuming West Side Story. Does anyone know of a pattern by the Big 3 patternmakers that has a pattern for the 1950s Tulle petticoats for teenagers? Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Online Reference Library, AND Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumegallery.com/research.htm www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 12 01:35:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAC6ZnTV026998 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 01:35:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAC6ZF4a025498 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 11 Nov 2004 23:35:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAC6ZDiT008676; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 23:35:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.142]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iAC6ZADf008612 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 23:35:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Nov 2004 06:35:04 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041112062920.0145e8b0@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 06:35:09 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke In-Reply-To: References: <200411112237.22787.cathy@thyrsus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Crinoline hoop size X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO For the lady who asked about hoop sizes, and whose mail I have lost - oops! Unless you are tall and wide, rather than tall and elegant, 120" should be plenty big enough. By the time you have a petticoat with a frill on the hem over it, or two, and your skirt, you will be looking at a four yard hem, at least. Do make sure that you have at least 6" clearance from the hem of the hoop to the ground, otherwise you can find yourself shrinking and bending as you walk up the inside of it. Apparently Juanita Leitsch (sp?) has a formula in her book "Who Wore What", but I have no access to this, and work mine out by eye, which is no help at all! (I have a 120" crinoline for trying on, so I can see how much bigger or smaller I need.) Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 12 04:15:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAC9FoUw022887 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 04:15:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAC9FF4a003496 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 12 Nov 2004 02:15:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAC9EuwN080993; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 02:14:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk ([193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAC9Ennb080707 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 02:14:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id iAC9ED218656.; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:14:14 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:14:13 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:13:57 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] More 1661 costume notes: laces Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> suzi@suziclarke.co.uk 12/11/2004 06:19:53 >>> At 20:50 11/11/2004 -0500, you wrote: >> >>[...] So to the Wardrobe, where I found my Lady had agreed upon a >>lace for my wife of 6/. [I don't know what symbol '/.' is failing to >>represent], > >The symbol is the pre decimal sign for shilling(s) /- so 6/- is six >shillings in old money, roughly 30 pence in decimal. >Suzi Actually, looking at the Pepys website, it says "6l." (i.e. the letter L - not very clear in this typeface), so it seems Sam paid six pounds, not shillings. Shows how expensive lace was when it was all handmade! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 12 06:40:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACBedOk025934 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 06:40:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iACBds4a010208 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 12 Nov 2004 04:39:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACBdg4a042268; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 04:39:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from relay02.roc.ny.frontiernet.net (relay02.roc.ny.frontiernet.net [66.133.131.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACBdaTG042226 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 04:39:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from homeec@telenet.net) Received: from filter02.roc.ny.frontiernet.net (filter02.roc.ny.frontiernet.net [66.133.131.177]) by relay02.roc.ny.frontiernet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF7F1FEA8 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:39:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from relay02.roc.ny.frontiernet.net ([66.133.131.35]) by filter02.roc.ny.frontiernet.net (filter02.roc.ny.frontiernet.net [66.133.131.177]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 09055-31-18 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:39:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (67-51-237-145.dsl1.glv.ny.frontiernet.net [67.51.237.145]) by relay02.roc.ny.frontiernet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7902EFED3 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:39:31 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4194A0EB.9010205@telenet.net> Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 06:39:23 -0500 From: Home Ec User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] book selling by Amazon and Barnes & Noble References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20040701 (2.0) at filter02.roc.ny.frontiernet.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Please, tell us how to get a copy - better yet - every issue! Robin Netherton wrote: >On Thu, 11 Nov 2004, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > > > >>I am also eager to see the Medieval Clothing & Textiles journal. I >>put a lot of stock in your judgment and your scholarship, Robin, so I >>feel sure it will be excellent. >> >> > >Thank you :-) I am really quite nervous, as it is not in my hands right >now. I await proofs. Meanwhile articles are coming in for the second >volume this month. > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 12 07:50:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACCocCu026831 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 07:50:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iACCnj4a013692 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 12 Nov 2004 05:49:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACCnYDj069016; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 05:49:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACCnVYD068963 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 05:49:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.1d7.2fc15325 (4426) for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 07:49:23 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <1d7.2fc15325.2ec60b53@aol.com> Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 07:49:23 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] 50s Tulle Petticoats To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5034 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/12/2004 1:27:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, penny@costumegallery.com writes: I am costuming West Side Story. Does anyone know of a pattern by the Big 3 patternmakers that has a pattern for the 1950s Tulle petticoats for teenagers? Wouldn't it be easier to buy them ready-made? They are a pain to make. Check square dance shops. How long is it going to run, and where? Maybe you could even get square dancers to lend some. I think that Kwik-Sew still carries a pattern, though, if you really want to make them. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 12 08:17:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACDHlxB026996 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 08:17:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iACDGu4a015055 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 12 Nov 2004 06:16:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACDGqCE079874; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 06:16:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACDDU5C078632 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 06:13:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id iACD9XTA005858 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 08:09:33 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 08:09:33 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4194B6F8.4070805@thibault.org> Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 08:13:28 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] More 1661 costume notes: laces References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate M Bunting wrote: > so it seems Sam paid six pounds, > not shillings. Shows how expensive lace was when it was all handmade! The frustrating thing is, we don't know how much yardage they bought for that price! cv _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 12 08:47:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACDlnc4027303 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 08:47:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iACDkq4a016611 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 12 Nov 2004 06:46:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACDkk3I092341; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 06:46:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sm4app00.siteprotect.com (sm4app00.siteprotect.com [64.41.126.205]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACDkiM6092315 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 06:46:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cschmitt@genteelarts.com) Received: from sm4app00.siteprotect.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sm4app00.siteprotect.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DF0633C0F; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 07:34:56 -0600 (CST) Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Crinoline hoop size X-Origin: 65.164.18.144 Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 07:34:55 -0600 X-Uidl: 5.1.0.14.2.20041112062920.0145e8b0@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: SiteMail 4.2 (US) Message-Id: <20041112133456.0DF0633C0F@sm4app00.siteprotect.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id iACDkiM6092315 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm 5'10" with generous proportions. My largest reproduction cage crinoline is 116" and I wear it under all of my dresses except for some very simple modest wash dresses (worn over a 90" crinoline). I do have several original cages, including one very nice elliptical one made in New London, CT in 1864. When compared with an original covered crinoline c.1860, the elliptical cage looks like it has a smaller circumference. However the original covered crinoline measures 110" and the elliptical cage measures 146" at the bottom steel. I've been doing extensive research on crinolines and skirt-supporting petticoats for a presentation at the 2005 Conference. I've also taught classes on making cage and covered crinolines for 17 years and have supervised the construction of 150 - 200 of them. I've learned that you can't rely solely on the circumference of the bottom steel. In addition to height, body size, shape and, especially, the overall shape of the crinoline must all be considered to achieve the proper silhouette. Carolann Schmitt cschmitt@genteelarts.com www.genteelarts.com Ladies & Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference, March 3-6, 2005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 12 10:11:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACFBGTQ027902 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 10:11:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iACFAT4a022165 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 12 Nov 2004 08:10:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACFADHT034030; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 08:10:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACFA7ET033846 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 08:10:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f87.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.135]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 60A52262851 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 16:09:54 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <008301c4c8c9$bb8edbe0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <41941702.4040401@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] More 1661 costume notes: laces Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 16:10:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Cynthia, Today i received my issue of the danish lace magazine. In it was an artickle about some graves they have examined in Helsingør (Elsinore) The floor had to be restored and the graves beneath examined. Most of the graves are 17th. century and the preferred lace in the graves are danish versions of the famous "Binche" laces wich are Flandres Laces. There was a prohibition law about wearing lace, but it was not held according to the rich finds in the graves. Also the ordinary Torchon Laces was found amungst rich citisens. So i am glad that Torchon was used in 17th century. It is a lace i know to make. Very interresting article with lovely photos of the incredible preserved laces. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia Virtue" To: Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 2:50 AM Subject: [h-cost] More 1661 costume notes: laces > Monday 11 November 1661 > > http://www.pepysdiary.com/archive/1661/11/11/index.php > > [...]Thence to the Wardrobe to dinner, and there by appointment met my > wife, who had by my direction brought some laces for my Lady to choose one > for her. And after dinner I went away, and left my wife and ladies > together, and all their work was about this lace of hers. > > [...] So to the Wardrobe, where I found my Lady had agreed upon a lace for > my wife of 6/. [I don't know what symbol '/.' is failing to represent], > which I seemed much glad of that it was no more, though in my mind I think > it too much, and I pray God keep me so to order myself and my wife’s > expenses that no inconvenience in purse or honour follow this my > prodigality. So by coach home. > > -- > Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 12 10:13:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACFDvsZ027919 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 10:13:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iACFD54a022432 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 12 Nov 2004 08:13:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACFD2h1035762; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 08:13:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACFCrEg035645 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 08:12:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.187] (p27.3c04.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.187]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id iACFBK826491 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 08:11:21 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <000801c4c880$92f586f0$0200a8c0@MOM> References: <000801c4c880$92f586f0$0200a8c0@MOM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <068A1AF2-34BE-11D9-9B14-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] 50s Tulle Petticoats Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 08:17:54 -0700 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO No, I don't, but they seem pretty simple to make. Two or three layers of gathered netting, although if you need a lot of them, mightn't it be fairly cheap and definitely faster just to purchase them? That's what the theatre I worked for last summer did for vaudeville dresses. Sylrog On Nov 11, 2004, at 11:26 PM, Penny Ladnier wrote: > I am costuming West Side Story. Does anyone know of a pattern by the > Big 3 patternmakers that has a pattern for the 1950s Tulle petticoats > for teenagers? > > Penny E. Ladnier > Owner, The Costume Gallery & Online Reference Library, AND Costume > Classroom > www.costumegallery.com > www.costumegallery.com/research.htm > www.costumeclassroom.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 12 10:28:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACFSEtB027979 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 10:28:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iACFRR4a023601 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 12 Nov 2004 08:27:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACFRLUn044757; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 08:27:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACFRJu2044735 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 08:27:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jacquelinejbump@gmail.com) Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id q1so504024rnf for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 07:27:18 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=Jna0w7/OekjSi78zcmhE4RD/xsrgKH6OOSfST++xpqQjFFZP7j+XK0em8rWJs9rkf0drPvlA2wN+IgsyrmwO/l+K+e6WMJjia3e3k9AbJR1ceZwHTTNuLTWjgUGSNPC4V3fvAcsPEVWKBihOzeNhUIQjQq+ei9FphjUEnztnDvI= Received: by 10.38.15.65 with SMTP id 65mr209663rno; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 07:27:18 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.38.14.59 with HTTP; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 07:27:18 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4c5accc804111207273627a938@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 10:27:18 -0500 From: Jacqueline Johnson To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 50s Tulle Petticoats In-Reply-To: <068A1AF2-34BE-11D9-9B14-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <000801c4c880$92f586f0$0200a8c0@MOM> <068A1AF2-34BE-11D9-9B14-000A95C59FB2@ntw.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Aha one I can help with Simplicity and Kwik Sew have patterns. Also check out: http://www3.sympatico.ca/drholmes/prom/prompat.htm Promenade. I use them fairly often because it's amazing how nicely Square Dance outfits adapt to be Baby Girl Goth or Lolita or EGL. > > I am costuming West Side Story. Does anyone know of a pattern by the > > Big 3 patternmakers that has a pattern for the 1950s Tulle petticoats > > for teenagers? > > > > Penny E. Ladnier _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 12 10:40:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACFe8OI028055 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 10:40:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iACFdP4a024762 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 12 Nov 2004 08:39:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACFdLNp052750; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 08:39:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACFdIwm052678 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 08:39:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09290 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:49:42 -0600 Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:49:41 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] book selling by Amazon and Barnes & Noble In-Reply-To: <4194A0EB.9010205@telenet.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 12 Nov 2004, Home Ec wrote: > Please, tell us how to get a copy - better yet - every issue! :-) _Medieval Clothing & Textiles_ will be sold by subscription, but usually subscribers are libraries and others who need full collections for reference. If you're more likely to want to check out each issue to see if it has what you need, and then choose to buy, you can buy single copies via the Boydell & Brewer website (or at conferences such as the Medieval Congress at Kalamazoo). I expect also that some independent specialty dealers (possibly Janet on this list) will carry copies. I'll let people know when it's up for sale, probably in the late winter / early spring. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 12 10:49:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACFnj27028125 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 10:49:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iACFn14a025607 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 12 Nov 2004 08:49:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACFmsKY059757; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 08:48:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail11.mdx.safepages.com (mail11.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACFmqWR059610 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 08:48:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id BD1FBA0A01; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 15:48:42 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust36.tnt3.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.197.36]) by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 83220A09AA for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 15:48:28 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <036e01c4c8cf$1ebe9b10$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000501c4c5a3$1497f2a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] another stays question Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:48:44 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" Subject: [h-cost] another stays question >I am trying to make the stays pattern in Koehlers book. On page 343 there >is a pattern draft. > It says first half of 18th century, but how early is it? > There seems to be 14 pieces sewed together for this. Is this really > nescesary to make so many parts, or do you think that they only tape > decorated it? There are many bone directions in this, perhaps this is why > it was split up in so many parts. > I was considering to use this for my dress projekt. Has anybody out there > tryed it? Did anyone ever answer this? My answer is probably too late to be useful, but here goes. I don't have a copy of Kholer, but if it's the pattern I'm thinking of it's from around 1725, and though it's a Kohler pattern it still is reasonably accurate. (If it's the OTHER one I'm thinking of, it dates to 1715.) The early 18thC stays were noticeably curvier and more form-fitting than the conical late 18thC stays; with the early stays, most of the shape of the stays actually came from seaming, whereas the later stays were mainly shaped through the placement of the bones in the body, and through cutting the tabs higher to allow a non-seam curve at the waist. In other words, there was a big change in stay-making technology in the middle of the 18thC. So in order to make an early 18thC pair of stays that has the correct shape, you do need more seaming. Now, I'd say you don't really need quite 14 seams--as few as 8 panels (4 on each side) is not uncommon--but you definitely wouldn't get an early 18thC shape by using a late 18thC pattern. And since the boning technique is so different in the early 18thC, it IS important to lay the bones as shown in the pattern. And it's important to start the tabs lower than you would on late 18thC stays. (Even if the pattern isn't the one I'm thinking of, all this still applies as long as it is from the first half of the 18thC. The shape of the stays overall got less curvy as the century progressed, but it's not until around 1760 or a bit later that the biggest technological changes really took hold.) Personally, I absolutely love the look of the early 18thC corsets. If you're talking about the 1725 pattern I'm thinking of, I've made a test version of it, and it fit wonderfully--it didn't even need boning to fit without wrinkles!--though I never got around to making up the final stays for one reason or another. (I think I got distracted for a few weeks then came back to discover that I'd changed shape yet again, which used to happen to me all the time, what with my weight going up and down constantly. Thank goodness that's mostly done now!) In fact, making that test version made me a convert to early 18thC stays, and I lost most of my interest in the later 18thC ones. =} -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 12 11:05:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACG5aho028231 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:05:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iACG4N4a027148 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:04:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACG4D4f077997; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:04:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay11-dav4.bay11.hotmail.com [64.4.38.108]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACG49kv077876 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:04:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bear_janet@msn.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 08:04:04 -0800 Received: from 4.10.39.64 by BAY11-DAV4.phx.gbl with DAV; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 16:03:46 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [4.10.39.64] X-Originating-Email: [bear_janet@msn.com] X-Sender: bear_janet@msn.com From: "JAMES OGILVIE" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4194A0EB.9010205@telenet.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] book selling by Amazon and Barnes & Noble Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:03:46 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 8.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V8.50.0017.1202 Seal-Send-Time: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:03:46 -0500 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Nov 2004 16:04:04.0243 (UTC) FILETIME=[3B560630:01C4C8D1] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id iACG5aho028231 Status: RO > Please, tell us how to get a copy - better yet - every issue! Your local evil book lady plans to be selling it :-) . Janet Janet Davis Castle Furnishings www.medievalbookstore.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 12 11:07:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACG7VPa028249 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:07:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iACG6g4a027360 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:06:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACG6dU1080367; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:06:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth04.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth04.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.64]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACG6aGI080328 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:06:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [4.152.117.83] (helo=MOM) by smtpauth04.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CSdwY-0000hu-Cc for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:06:35 -0500 Message-ID: <004501c4c8d1$96038670$0200a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1d7.2fc15325.2ec60b53@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 50s Tulle Petticoats Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:06:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 140fedcc4d524cc6b18d26c2e407058b94f5150ab1c16ac0549fb11073be4ad3d738ddebb5135afddce22276f5ef6a1c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.152.117.83 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id iACG7VPa028249 Status: RO Ann, Thanks for the suggestion about square dancing clubs. I found a website with several clubs in Richmond. Thanks! Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Online Reference Library, AND Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumegallery.com/research.htm www.costumeclassroom.com ----- Original Message ----- From: AnnBWass@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 7:49 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 50s Tulle Petticoats In a message dated 11/12/2004 1:27:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, penny@costumegallery.com writes: I am costuming West Side Story. Does anyone know of a pattern by the Big 3 patternmakers that has a pattern for the 1950s Tulle petticoats for teenagers? Wouldn't it be easier to buy them ready-made? They are a pain to make. Check square dance shops. How long is it going to run, and where? Maybe you could even get square dancers to lend some. I think that Kwik-Sew still carries a pattern, though, if you really want to make them. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 12 11:09:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACG9gnW028273 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:09:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iACG914a027583 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:09:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACG8uGL083677; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:09:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACG8rWt083618 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:08:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f87.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.135]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id A57D45EE07B for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 17:08:50 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000a01c4c8d1$fac12ae0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000501c4c5a3$1497f2a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <036e01c4c8cf$1ebe9b10$0400a8c0@compaqub> Subject: Re: [h-cost] another stays question Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 17:09:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Thanks for your answer. No others answered it, so i guess very few have tryed it. The pattern i am thinking of has an extra linning of the front piece, wich is narrower at the point. This is made so that the front point bulks out because the linning is smaller. Would be interresting to make it i think Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 4:48 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] another stays question > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" > Subject: [h-cost] another stays question > > >>I am trying to make the stays pattern in Koehlers book. On page 343 there >>is a pattern draft. >> It says first half of 18th century, but how early is it? >> There seems to be 14 pieces sewed together for this. Is this really >> nescesary to make so many parts, or do you think that they only tape >> decorated it? There are many bone directions in this, perhaps this is why >> it was split up in so many parts. >> I was considering to use this for my dress projekt. Has anybody out there >> tryed it? > > > Did anyone ever answer this? My answer is probably too late to be useful, > but here goes. > > I don't have a copy of Kholer, but if it's the pattern I'm thinking of > it's from around 1725, and though it's a Kohler pattern it still is > reasonably accurate. (If it's the OTHER one I'm thinking of, it dates to > 1715.) The early 18thC stays were noticeably curvier and more form-fitting > than the conical late 18thC stays; with the early stays, most of the shape > of the stays actually came from seaming, whereas the later stays were > mainly shaped through the placement of the bones in the body, and through > cutting the tabs higher to allow a non-seam curve at the waist. In other > words, there was a big change in stay-making technology in the middle of > the 18thC. > > So in order to make an early 18thC pair of stays that has the correct > shape, you do need more seaming. Now, I'd say you don't really need quite > 14 seams--as few as 8 panels (4 on each side) is not uncommon--but you > definitely wouldn't get an early 18thC shape by using a late 18thC > pattern. And since the boning technique is so different in the early > 18thC, it IS important to lay the bones as shown in the pattern. And it's > important to start the tabs lower than you would on late 18thC stays. > > (Even if the pattern isn't the one I'm thinking of, all this still applies > as long as it is from the first half of the 18thC. The shape of the stays > overall got less curvy as the century progressed, but it's not until > around 1760 or a bit later that the biggest technological changes really > took hold.) > > Personally, I absolutely love the look of the early 18thC corsets. If > you're talking about the 1725 pattern I'm thinking of, I've made a test > version of it, and it fit wonderfully--it didn't even need boning to fit > without wrinkles!--though I never got around to making up the final stays > for one reason or another. (I think I got distracted for a few weeks then > came back to discover that I'd changed shape yet again, which used to > happen to me all the time, what with my weight going up and down > constantly. Thank goodness that's mostly done now!) In fact, making that > test version made me a convert to early 18thC stays, and I lost most of my > interest in the later 18thC ones. =} > > -E House > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 12 11:12:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACGCg6Y028296 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:12:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iACGBr4a027974 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:11:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACGBlEg085678; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:11:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.194]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACGB2Nq085143 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:11:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from goddessandqueen@gmail.com) Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id c16so568016rne for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 08:11:01 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=KLIuCNRFYy29vf1LkBjx10y8lDursGpSSqkSoKw4sIwvITq6hNvxLiW7XyR6gRHikbkZa5J2NGOnF1opGgM2UL84VrY+iRTQXktNsXUQDvQrr8IjZVwSXINyIkwb0mP41QqNjhGyZq7+fW1pjoW/V/jwr8yL25WFTJS0xvSLjw0= Received: by 10.38.90.35 with SMTP id n35mr480080rnb; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 08:11:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.38.81.72 with HTTP; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 08:11:01 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <6107d9c1041112081173aff8ba@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 10:11:01 -0600 From: pixel To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] wool/1560/tweed??? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20041111165422.0145e3a8@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20041110202002.51317.qmail@web51409.mail.yahoo.com> <200411101903.iAAJ2mg4072943@net.indra.com> <4.2.2.20041111072710.00d497e0@pop.surewest.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20041111165422.0145e3a8@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 16:58:57 +0000, Suzi Clarke wrote: > At 07:34 11/11/2004 -0800, you wrote: > >At 12:20 PM 11/10/2004 -0800, you wrote: > > > >>Recently I read somewhere that wool tweed is an appropriate fabric for > >>merchant class 1560. Is this correct? My husband enjoys the look of tweed > >>and would love a tweed doublet. I have seen two distinctive types of > >>tweed one that looks mottled and one that's more plaid. Are they both > >>appropriate? Any sources or general info would be helpful if the > >>naysayers say nay to tweed! :-) Truly, > >> > >> Angelique > > > >I'm not certain about what we modernly call "tweed" (the mottled color, > >heathery yarn), but twill weaves are certainly period (in fact, they go > >back at least to the Iron Age textiles from Danish bogs). The word > >"tweed" is from the same root word as "twill", and may be used > >interchangably. So any references you may find probably refer to a > >twill-weave. I have not seen any references to what we call "plaid" > >(checked-pattern weaves) for 16th-century English. If you use a > >twill-woven wool in a rich solid color, you can't go wrong, and it would > >look wonderful. > > I have seen check fabric samples from a medieval site, the so called > "Baynard Castle" site. It was check because it had stripes both vertical > and horizontal, for want of a better description. However, in no way did it > resemble a modern plaid or tartan. All the fabrics were finer than modern > tweed seems to be. That could be because there was not a representative > sample in the midden, which is where these were found - if used for > lavatorial purposes, obviously the finer pieces the better!! I have a funny > feeling that the check on one piece was pink! But don't quote me, as I > cannot find my notes from that day. > > Suzi > IIRC the sleeve piece that is shown in Textiles & Clothing is what I would call a buffalo check, larger than gingham, and it was undyed white yarn and yarn dyed with madder. So the checks where the white and red blended might look pink depending on what color the madder-dyed yarn actually was (i.e., orange or red). Pixel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 12 11:21:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACGLqF4028362 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:21:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iACGKF4a028990 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:20:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACGJvRe092234; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:20:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.142]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iACGJLwo091760 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:19:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Nov 2004 16:19:15 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041112161424.0145ed68@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 16:19:21 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] another stays question In-Reply-To: <000a01c4c8d1$fac12ae0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <000501c4c5a3$1497f2a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <036e01c4c8cf$1ebe9b10$0400a8c0@compaqub> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >The pattern i am thinking of has an extra linning of the front piece, wich >is narrower at the point. This is made so that the front point bulks out >because the linning is smaller. >Would be interresting to make it i think > The lining also acts as a busk pocket. There is what I think is a similar set of stays in Bath, and if you bend down and squint a bit, you can see the pocket. The busk has one of its triangular edges towards the bust, and the flat face towards the corset, as far as I could see. The seams are all real seams and taped to cover the stitching. Suzi >>>I am trying to make the stays pattern in Koehlers book. On page 343 >>>there is a pattern draft. >>>It says first half of 18th century, but how early is it? >>>There seems to be 14 pieces sewed together for this. Is this really >>>nescesary to make so many parts, or do you think that they only tape >>>decorated it? There are many bone directions in this, perhaps this is >>>why it was split up in so many parts. >> >> >>I don't have a copy of Kholer, but if it's the pattern I'm thinking of >>it's from around 1725, and though it's a Kohler pattern it still is >>reasonably accurate. (If it's the OTHER one I'm thinking of, it dates to >>1715.) The early 18thC stays were noticeably curvier and more >>form-fitting than the conical late 18thC stays; with the early stays, >>most of the shape of the stays actually came from seaming, whereas the >>later stays were mainly shaped through the placement of the bones in the >>body, and through cutting the tabs higher to allow a non-seam curve at >>the waist. In other words, there was a big change in stay-making >>technology in the middle of the 18thC. >> >>So in order to make an early 18thC pair of stays that has the correct >>shape, you do need more seaming. Now, I'd say you don't really need quite >>14 seams--as few as 8 panels (4 on each side) is not uncommon--but you >>definitely wouldn't get an early 18thC shape by using a late 18thC >>pattern. And since the boning technique is so different in the early >>18thC, it IS important to lay the bones as shown in the pattern. And it's >>important to start the tabs lower than you would on late 18thC stays. >> >>(Even if the pattern isn't the one I'm thinking of, all this still >>applies as long as it is from the first half of the 18thC. The shape of >>the stays overall got less curvy as the century progressed, but it's not >>until around 1760 or a bit later that the biggest technological changes >>really took hold.) >> >>Personally, I absolutely love the look of the early 18thC corsets. If >>you're talking about the 1725 pattern I'm thinking of, I've made a test >>version of it, and it fit wonderfully--it didn't even need boning to fit >>without wrinkles!--though I never got around to making up the final stays >>for one reason or another. (I think I got distracted for a few weeks then >>came back to discover that I'd changed shape yet again, which used to >>happen to me all the time, what with my weight going up and down >>constantly. Thank goodness that's mostly done now!) In fact, making that >>test version made me a convert to early 18thC stays, and I lost most of >>my interest in the later 18thC ones. =} >> >>-E House >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 12 14:13:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACJCxsR029562 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 14:13:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iACJCC4a017844 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 12 Nov 2004 12:12:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACJC0i8030839; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 12:12:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACJBtg8030762 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 12:11:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f87.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.135]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 43F245EE07F for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 20:11:54 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000e01c4c8eb$885fb560$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000501c4c5a3$1497f2a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711><036e01c4c8cf$1ebe9b10$0400a8c0@compaqub> <5.1.0.14.2.20041112161424.0145ed68@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] another stays question Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 20:12:18 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzi Clarke" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 5:19 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] another stays question > >>The pattern i am thinking of has an extra linning of the front piece, wich >>is narrower at the point. This is made so that the front point bulks out >>because the linning is smaller. >>Would be interresting to make it i think >> > > The lining also acts as a busk pocket. There is what I think is a similar > set of stays in Bath, and if you bend down and squint a bit, you can see > the pocket. The busk has one of its triangular edges towards the bust, and > the flat face towards the corset, as far as I could see. The seams are all > real seams and taped to cover the stitching. > > Suzi Dear Suzi, Oh that was nice to know. I didnt know that. It is irritating that Koehler didnt make any comments about where his sources came from. I really would like to se that some time. I photoed a pair of early 18th century stays at the danish national museum some years ago, and it also had this narrower piece in the front linning. But it did not have a busk. In fact i remember that it was impossible to fold out these stays because they were shaped so much. Got lots of pictures. These early stays had the same cut in the back as the cut in womens clothes where there are some curved bones towards the waist. Otherwise it was much more shaped and long than Norah Waughs cut. I remember its weight striked me, because it was so heavy with all these bones. Poor lady. Bjarne _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 12 14:42:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACJgCcX029754 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 14:42:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iACJfN4a020986 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 12 Nov 2004 12:41:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACJfH6K053293; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 12:41:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail11.mdx.safepages.com (mail11.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACJfEZO053083 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 12:41:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 6308CA08B3; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 19:41:05 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust36.tnt3.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.197.36]) by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 5EDA3A0846 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 19:40:58 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <03d001c4c8ef$953e3f00$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000501c4c5a3$1497f2a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711><036e01c4c8cf$1ebe9b10$0400a8c0@compaqub><5.1.0.14.2.20041112161424.0145ed68@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> <000e01c4c8eb$885fb560$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] another stays question Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 13:41:12 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" > I photoed a pair of early 18th century stays at the danish national museum > some years ago, and it also had this narrower piece in the front linning. > But it did not have a busk. In fact i remember that it was impossible to > fold out these stays because they were shaped so much. Got lots of > pictures. I'd love to see the photos! Are they on your website somewhere? -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 12 14:56:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACJuND3029860 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 14:56:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iACJtb4a022712 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 12 Nov 2004 12:55:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACJtTNY063990; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 12:55:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pony.uvm.edu (pony.uvm.edu [132.198.101.202]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACJtQJD063901 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 12:55:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hope.greenberg@uvm.edu) Received: from [132.198.104.191] (ip104191.uvm.edu [132.198.104.191]) by pony.uvm.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iACJtNFT018785 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 14:55:23 -0500 Message-ID: <41951528.2000702@uvm.edu> Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 14:55:20 -0500 From: Hope Greenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040803 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <000501c4c5a3$1497f2a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711><036e01c4c8cf$1ebe9b10$0400a8c0@compaqub><5.1.0.14.2.20041112161424.0145ed68@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> <000e01c4c8eb$885fb560$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <03d001c4c8ef$953e3f00$0400a8c0@compaqub> In-Reply-To: <03d001c4c8ef$953e3f00$0400a8c0@compaqub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 19th cent American Actors: image collection X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't recall this being posted here. It is a digital collection at the University of Washington Libraries of studio photographs of mid-19th century actors. It includes many in costume and many in everyday clothes. Some real delights... http://content.lib.washington.edu/search-collection-list.html - Hope _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 12 15:40:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACKeNFF030529 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 15:40:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iACKdM4a026936 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 12 Nov 2004 13:39:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACKd7uO096086; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 13:39:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACKcq1Y095799 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 13:38:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f87.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.135]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 6F1105EE034 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 21:38:50 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000601c4c8f7$b0e68070$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000501c4c5a3$1497f2a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711><036e01c4c8cf$1ebe9b10$0400a8c0@compaqub><5.1.0.14.2.20041112161424.0145ed68@mail.suziclarke.co.uk><000e01c4c8eb$885fb560$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <03d001c4c8ef$953e3f00$0400a8c0@compaqub> Subject: Re: [h-cost] another stays question Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 21:39:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I was not allowed to use the photos i took at the museum, but if you go here: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/underpinnings_.htm You can se a little photo of it. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 8:41 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] another stays question > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" > >> I photoed a pair of early 18th century stays at the danish national >> museum some years ago, and it also had this narrower piece in the front >> linning. But it did not have a busk. In fact i remember that it was >> impossible to fold out these stays because they were shaped so much. Got >> lots of pictures. > > I'd love to see the photos! Are they on your website somewhere? > > -E House > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 12 18:20:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACNK5lf031690 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 18:20:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iACNJA4a027116 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 12 Nov 2004 16:19:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACNIuLC018254; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 16:18:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web51310.mail.yahoo.com (web51310.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.176]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iACNInVn018140 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 16:18:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from elvestoorder@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 57628 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Nov 2004 23:18:44 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=XfIXna1n2tAkFKSPNO5OJeTIrllsS9iva1OxUsaJ9hHEIUzfdN2HlFSyxlLVbtzub/NmP828wwwz14kfH2gxBBFowgTx9TZe8u3gMS6XJly6Hb/aGNsTe464npyQ0wyCNjQnDjSWsJxGU4SyULemqYXQPghMEdxRxGrA1U7hxGM= ; Message-ID: <20041112231844.57626.qmail@web51310.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.237.35.75] by web51310.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 15:18:44 PST Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 15:18:44 -0800 (PST) From: Ann Catelli Subject: Re: [h-cost] Crinoline hoop size To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20041112062920.0145e8b0@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The photos I looked at had hems in a 0.60 ratio to the height of the wearer (+/-), so somewhat smaller than that--make up any difference in your petticoats (at least three over the crinoline) & skirts, etc. ymmv, etc. I made my hoops knee-length with about a dozen steels, since I was making a masquerade ball outfit, which tended to run to upper-calf length in the 1860's. Ann in CT __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 12 18:25:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACNPAmY031763 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 18:25:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iACNOb4a027857 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 12 Nov 2004 16:24:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iACNOV32022228; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 16:24:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web51302.mail.yahoo.com (web51302.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.168]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iACNODs2021930 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 16:24:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from elvestoorder@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 80040 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Nov 2004 23:24:08 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=Xt45tDTNCouikJwsyP9xfLp4W7J6YfA83c+zgdYQ1RcLx5OVSJlKG0sgvIcOBgHY8Cu6CHy8ziz5JdT7H1As4hR834aefoZQ69wehtGAtlRfELDmUtHOZXHlWPSGsC9yUKgclN29kFY8feIx9vepuMr6rLVQ9Tf7CguWgZvZc60= ; Message-ID: <20041112232407.80038.qmail@web51302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.237.35.75] by web51302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 15:24:07 PST Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 15:24:07 -0800 (PST) From: Ann Catelli Subject: crossed stripes weaving Re: [h-cost] wool/1560/tweed??? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <6107d9c1041112081173aff8ba@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > IIRC the sleeve piece that is shown in Textiles & > Clothing is what I > would call a buffalo check, larger than gingham, and > it was undyed > white yarn and yarn dyed with madder. So the checks > where the white > and red blended might look pink depending on what > color the > madder-dyed yarn actually was (i.e., orange or red). > > Pixel I'd say more like 'windowpane' shirting. warp: 2 dark, 8 light, 2 medium, 8 light, rep. weft: 2 dark, 6 light, 2 medium, 6 light, rep. Why, yes, I have spent too much time with MoL Textiles & Clothing. Ann in CT __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 12 21:08:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAD28nV2032707 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 21:08:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAD2814a015158 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 12 Nov 2004 19:08:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAD27qYC011161; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 19:07:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAD27nVs011127 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 19:07:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iAD3B908020466 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 22:11:09 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] book selling by Amazon and Barnes & Noble Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 21:23:01 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200411122123.01321.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 12 November 2004 12:28 am, Robin Netherton wrote: > On Thu, 11 Nov 2004, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > > I am also eager to see the Medieval Clothing & Textiles journal. I > > put a lot of stock in your judgment and your scholarship, Robin, so I > > feel sure it will be excellent. > > Thank you :-) I am really quite nervous, as it is not in my hands right > now. I await proofs. Meanwhile articles are coming in for the second > volume this month. Excellent. I was an editor on a law review journal a long time ago, and one of the big nervous-making things about running it was whether you would have enough articles to fill out the issue. Since a law review is a student publication, we would always have articles by review members, but you lose face if you cannot obtain at least half your page count from experienced members of the bar. Anyway, good luck! > It's a scholarly journal, so we don't expect it to appeal to all medieval > costumers, and not everyone will find their own interest areas covered in > every issue. I expect that with specialized journals of every type. I will probably scout out the first few issues before taking a subscription. By the way, any word on the likely subscription price? The per issue price? [snip] > I don't think I'm overstepping to tell you what's in the first volume: > -- an overview (complete, we hope) of all known examples of European > embroidery before 1100 (Elizabeth Coatsworth) > -- a literary analysis of textile imagery in Anglo-Saxon riddles and > poetry (Maren Clegg-Hyer) > -- a study of an illumination showing royal dress in an Anglo-Saxon > manuscript (Gale R. Owen-Crocker) > -- a look at clothing color references in Icelandic sagas (Sandra Ballif > Straubhaar) Well, there's four articles that interest me already; guess I'm going to be buying that issue. :-) [snip] > Upcoming: Nalbinding. Flea furs. Early medieval brooches. 9th c. Irish > royal dress. References to weaving in French romances. 12th-13th c. French > embroiderers. Almspurses and the Parisian cloth trade. 15th c. Italian > wool production. Fabric cleaning in 15th c. Germany. Elizabethan > embroidered jackets. Or other fun stuff. (We can't be sure exactly what > the combination will be for a given issue till we've got everything in > hand.) Excellent. Now I really can't wait! > > Looks like I'll be busy for the foreseeable future. It does. But, really, would you want it any other way? > > --Robin > not sewing much these days > (so why do I still keep buying fabric?) [because it's an addiction!] :-) -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 12 21:58:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAD2w1vL000545 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 21:58:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAD2vP4a019238 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 12 Nov 2004 19:57:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAD2vJUd036429; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 19:57:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f12.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.62]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAD2v7ZC036318 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 19:57:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rharperny@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 18:57:01 -0800 Received: from 24.247.201.55 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 13 Nov 2004 02:56:00 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.247.201.55] X-Originating-Email: [rharperny@hotmail.com] X-Sender: rharperny@hotmail.com From: "R Harper" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 21:56:00 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Nov 2004 02:57:01.0596 (UTC) FILETIME=[72DBADC0:01C4C92C] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] A last minute request... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Apologies for the cross-posting, should anyone get this more than once. I am going to Chicago tomorrow on a work-sponsored shopping trip. We are going by bus and will be let out on the Miracle Mile, at Watertower Place. What I *really* need to shop for is a metal corset busk and some hoop wire. Does anyone have a clue as to where (if anywhere) I might be able to find those things not-too-far from where I'll be dropped off? I am willing to schlep a bit for them. I'm leaving the house at about 5.00 am on Saturday, so please reply privately if you have any information, as I might not receive it on digest. Many thanks! Richard in MI "A positive attitude may not solve all of your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort" - Herm Albright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 13 00:19:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAD5JMUv001230 for ; Sat, 13 Nov 2004 00:19:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAD5Ih4a028173 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 12 Nov 2004 22:18:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAD5IXAB000880; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 22:18:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.austarmetro.com.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAD5IU8u000764 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 22:18:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole ([203.214.144.108]) by smtp.austarmetro.com.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with SMTP id iAD5Hv0X008741 for ; Sat, 13 Nov 2004 16:18:15 +1100 Message-ID: <000101c4c940$04b865e0$6c90d6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20041111175840.74887.qmail@web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com><4193B1FB.6040804@lavoltapress.com> <4193B274.9000403@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] book selling by Amazon and Barnes & Noble Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 09:28:41 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >> This means that what you pay - say - US$15.95 for in the States, > >> is offered to UK consumers at UK£15.95 [US$28.71 at the present Rate > >> -of-Exchange!]; - when, by rights, the book should be offered to UK > >> Readers at UK£8.90 approx [at the current Rate of Exchange] with a > >> /small "/mark-up" to cover trans-Atllantic Shipping Costs, + O&P. >> OK, realistically, one expects a certain "mark-up" to cover Shipping, > >> and Middlemens' profits, - but not as much as this! > > > > > > Overseas shipping is genuinely quite expensive, especially if the > > book(s) cannot be shipped at a very slow rate. It is also more work to > > order and fill orders--more questions as to shipping and payment > > options and so on. > > Not to mention the fact that these book retailers need to pay all their costs in UK £ their staff their rent, their electricity bills, their advertising etc. all have to be taken into account. Many of these middlemen will also have to be paid in UK£. But if the exchange rate is good enough for it to still be cheaper when you factor in shipping, go ahead and buy direct from the US, you are perfectly entitled to do so. Elizabeth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Beaumont Elizabeth Walpole in OR in Politarchopolis, Lochac Canberra, Australia ewalpole@austarmetro.com.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 13 12:25:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iADHPODw001279 for ; Sat, 13 Nov 2004 12:25:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iADHOf4a007424 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 13 Nov 2004 10:24:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iADHOS70008913; Sat, 13 Nov 2004 10:24:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web50601.mail.yahoo.com (web50601.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.88]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iADHOQK0008855 for ; Sat, 13 Nov 2004 10:24:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 67431 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Nov 2004 17:24:20 -0000 Message-ID: <20041113172420.67429.qmail@web50601.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.198.54.41] by web50601.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 13 Nov 2004 12:24:20 EST Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 12:24:20 -0500 (EST) From: Kathy Page To: Historical Costume List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Mystery fabric X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was at the antique shop yesterday and picked up just a bit over 4 yards of some really nifty fabric. (I don't even HAVE to be in a fabric store to sniff out the stuff!) Problem is, I am having a dickens of a time figuring out the fibre content. It's black voided velvet, when burn tested separately warp, weft and pile all have a distinct papery smelling smoke, resists flame at first, burns with an orange flame and smoulders with an afterglow. The ash, when I could finally get it reduced to ash, was dark grey and soft. All this points to cotton/linen/rayon, but does *not* look or feel like it. I threw a sample into bleach, and there is no marked degredation of the fibres, and in some stripes, it resisted changing colour as well. The hand of the fabric is very much like duchesse satin, the satin is an almost matte finish and the pile is shiny and luxuriously soft. I took pictures, both with and without a flash: http://members.rogers.com/kpage49/IMG_1045.JPG http://members.rogers.com/kpage49/IMG_1046.JPG Interestingly, it is only 35 inches wide. Something I haven't seen in a modern couture fabric before. I have *no* clue on where it came from or how old it actually is. I realise this is a very difficult forum to ask such a touchy-feely question, but I honestly have no idea what this is made of. Any opinions are welcome. Kathy ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 13 12:35:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iADHZgG4001371 for ; Sat, 13 Nov 2004 12:35:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iADHSq4a007636 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 13 Nov 2004 10:28:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iADHSpTO010807; Sat, 13 Nov 2004 10:28:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iADHQFHb009598 for ; Sat, 13 Nov 2004 10:26:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from webwarren@earthlink.net) Received: from cottontail.webwarren.com (pcp09760503pcs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.38.25.187]) by webwarren.com (8.12.10/8.11.2) with ESMTP id iADHQ2Kd000910; Sat, 13 Nov 2004 12:26:02 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.0.20041113115350.063d6ec0@earthlink.net> X-Sender: n2kye@mail.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 12:25:17 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell In-Reply-To: <200411121609.iACG9GGE083961@net.indra.com> References: <200411121609.iACG9GGE083961@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 896 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At Fri, 12 Nov 2004 01:26:39 -0500, "Penny Ladnier" wrote: Butterick 4114 for the poodle skirt AND matching petticoat. $9.95 MSRP, half price through SewingToday http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi?s.item.B4114=x&TI=10013&pageNum=8&M=&UK=34983216. The back view isn't shown (blank area) so I don't know what sort of pattern or closure it uses. McCall's 7253 ($8.50 MSRP, half-price through SewingToday http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/mccallspatterns/shop.cgi?s.item.M7253=x&TI=40020&pageNum=9&M=&UK=35085576) also has both the skirt and the petticoat, though it's an elastic-waist skirt. It's made from single fronts and backs of fabric (non-gored construction). The corresponding Simplicity pattern (5403) does not have a petticoat; the skirt closes with a side zipper. It's also non-gored construction. Most of the (original) patterns I have from that time show 4-, 6-, or 8-gore construction to a waistband (either plain and narrow or wide and shaped) and left-side zipper closure. The one skirt from my collection that comes with a petticoat pattern is not of ruffled tulle, but has the lower half of the semi-circular petticoat flatlined with about 18" of "crinoline" and the bottom edge finished with ruffled eyelet edging. The petticoat to my mother's wedding gown (1956) was of similar design to the one in the McCall's pattern, but with "horsehair" edging along the tulle and an upper layer of a narrow-pleated sheer fabric with a rolled-edge hem. If you collect Burda pattern magazines (the ones with the patterns on a pull-out section), there's a skirt and petticoat from around 1990 that should also fit the description you're looking for... Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 13 13:22:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iADIMoGI001868 for ; Sat, 13 Nov 2004 13:22:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iADIH44a010407 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 13 Nov 2004 11:17:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iADIGvfA032962; Sat, 13 Nov 2004 11:16:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iADIGtSL032940 for ; Sat, 13 Nov 2004 11:16:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.179] (p19.3c04.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.179]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id iADIFM817675 for ; Sat, 13 Nov 2004 11:15:22 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <20041113172420.67429.qmail@web50601.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041113172420.67429.qmail@web50601.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mystery fabric Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 11:21:55 -0700 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My guess would be rayon. Why don't you think it could be that? They make rayon velvets and they can be very shiny and soft. Didn't they start making rayon in the 20s or 30s? Sylrog On Nov 13, 2004, at 10:24 AM, Kathy Page wrote: > I was at the antique shop yesterday and picked up just > a bit over 4 yards of some really nifty fabric. (I > don't even HAVE to be in a fabric store to sniff out > the stuff!) Problem is, I am having a dickens of a > time figuring out the fibre content. > It's black voided velvet, when burn tested separately > warp, weft and pile all have a distinct papery > smelling smoke, resists flame at first, burns with an > orange flame and smoulders with an afterglow. The ash, > when I could finally get it reduced to ash, was dark > grey and soft. All this points to cotton/linen/rayon, > but does *not* look or feel like it. I threw a sample > into bleach, and there is no marked degredation of the > fibres, and in some stripes, it resisted changing > colour as well. The hand of the fabric is very much > like duchesse satin, the satin is an almost matte > finish and the pile is shiny and luxuriously soft. I > took pictures, both with and without a flash: > http://members.rogers.com/kpage49/IMG_1045.JPG > http://members.rogers.com/kpage49/IMG_1046.JPG > Interestingly, it is only 35 inches wide. Something I > haven't seen in a modern couture fabric before. I have > *no* clue on where it came from or how old it actually > is. > I realise this is a very difficult forum to ask such a > touchy-feely question, but I honestly have no idea > what this is made of. Any opinions are welcome. > > Kathy > > ______________________________________________________________________ > Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 13 13:40:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iADIeejt002154 for ; Sat, 13 Nov 2004 13:40:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iADIeA4a011536 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 13 Nov 2004 11:40:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iADIdtS9054609; Sat, 13 Nov 2004 11:39:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from bilbo.suffolk.lib.ny.us (bilbo.suffolk.lib.ny.us [209.139.23.58]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iADIdrgC054477 for ; Sat, 13 Nov 2004 11:39:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Bchamber@suffolk.lib.ny.us) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bilbo.suffolk.lib.ny.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id 753BEA542A9 for ; Sat, 13 Nov 2004 13:38:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from bilbo.suffolk.lib.ny.us ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (bilbo [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27154-19 for ; Sat, 13 Nov 2004 13:38:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from D1CCZP51 (unknown [209.139.22.251]) by bilbo.suffolk.lib.ny.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id C42BBA542A1 for ; Sat, 13 Nov 2004 13:38:03 -0500 (EST) From: "Beth Chamberlain" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Mystery fabric Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 13:39:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Thread-Index: AcTJpdcsa0+649lIT3yOGa69eFiSaAACcZIg In-Reply-To: <20041113172420.67429.qmail@web50601.mail.yahoo.com> Message-Id: <20041113183803.C42BBA542A1@bilbo.suffolk.lib.ny.us> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What about an "old" rayon, from the 20's or 30's? The process has changes some so the burn results would be slightly different. I have some old pieces, and a dress, of my grandmothers. The velvet is incredibly soft and silky. It could very easily pass for silk. I can't get to any of it right now but my recollection is that all the rayon (velvet or otherwise) pieces I inherited were 32 or 35 wide. Beth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 13 15:08:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iADK8N4l004246 for ; Sat, 13 Nov 2004 15:08:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iADK7f4a021197 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 13 Nov 2004 13:07:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iADK7Xxg001222; Sat, 13 Nov 2004 13:07:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-118.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.118]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iADK7VRx001162 for ; Sat, 13 Nov 2004 13:07:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by mail.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 984E4425D5 for ; Sat, 13 Nov 2004 15:39:17 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <41966985.8060900@reddawn.net> Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 14:07:33 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mystery fabric References: <20041113172420.67429.qmail@web50601.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20041113172420.67429.qmail@web50601.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kathy Page wrote: > I realise this is a very difficult forum to ask such a > touchy-feely question, but I honestly have no idea > what this is made of. Any opinions are welcome. > Rayon tends to feel 'cold' to the touch. Also, I noticed it has wrinkles. If you hang rayon wrinkles tend to fall out. Does the fabric exhibit either quality? It 'looks' like a poly blend base to me in the photo, but it's hard to be sure without being able to touch it. As for the width, a lot of overseas fabrics not made for export are narrower than fabrics sold in the US market. How much heat do you need to apply to the flat areas to get it ironed? That will be a clue. Cotton will take more pressing to smooth than poly or rayon. Linen may never completely lose the wrinkles. If you grab a handful and wrinkle it into a ball how does it react when you let go? Linen and wools tend to 'spring' while rayon will stay limp. Does it stain when you get it wet? Silk blends will sometimes leave water rings. Cottons tend not to, but it may depend on how colorfast the dye is. Test a spot with a damp piece of clean muslin to see if color will rub off. Older rayons were notoriously bad about bleeding and shrinkage. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 13 16:28:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iADLSvjG006324 for ; Sat, 13 Nov 2004 16:28:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iADLSD4a004120 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 13 Nov 2004 14:28:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iADLRuNF041979; Sat, 13 Nov 2004 14:27:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iADLRl8d041892 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 13 Nov 2004 14:27:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iADMVC47011673 for ; Sat, 13 Nov 2004 17:31:12 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Crinoline hoop size Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 16:43:03 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <200411112237.22787.cathy@thyrsus.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20041112062920.0145e8b0@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20041112062920.0145e8b0@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200411131643.04050.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 12 November 2004 1:35 am, Suzi Clarke wrote: [snip] > Apparently Juanita Leitsch (sp?) has a formula in her book "Who Wore What", > but I have no access to this, and work mine out by eye, which is no help at > all! (I have a 120" crinoline for trying on, so I can see how much bigger > or smaller I need.) Ah, but I have "Who Wore What?" The book does give a guide to guessestimating the approximate circumference of hoop you'd need to imitate the look of a skirt in a particular 1860's photo. Hold on.... Ms. Leisch says, in "Who Wore What," at page 70: "Photographs generally show skirt widths that appear to be about 50% as wide as the wearer's height. Late-ware elliptical-shaped skirts, with their slight trains, appear to be as much as 70% as wide as the height of the wearer." So what you want to do is figure your height (in inches or centimeters), take 50% or 70% of the number (depending on the style in which you are interested, and then apply the formula for ascertaining the circumference of a circle with a diameter equal to half one's height. The formula is Circumference = pi times diameter (see this web site for more on the math involved with determining circumference, radius, or diameter of a circle: http://www.mathgoodies.com/lessons/vol2/circumference.html ) So you multiply your diameter figure by pi (one of those infinite non-repeating decimals, but generally approximated as 3.1416 or, more crudely, as 22/7) and that tells you the circumference you need. In my case, I'm 61 inches tall. Half my height is 30.5 inches. 3.1416 times 30.5 is 95.81 inches. Now, if I wanted a skirt with a diameter of 70% my height, that figure is 42.7 inches. 3.1416 times 42.7 inches= 134.1 inches. I usually use a stock 120 inch hoop, though, and it works just fine. :-) -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 13 19:52:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAE0q1KU009384 for ; Sat, 13 Nov 2004 19:52:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAE0pQ4a018812 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 13 Nov 2004 17:51:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAE0pFM4047921; Sat, 13 Nov 2004 17:51:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m18.mx.aol.com (imo-m18.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.208]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAE0pBLY047848 for ; Sat, 13 Nov 2004 17:51:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.1ee.2e8bffe6 (4529) for ; Sat, 13 Nov 2004 19:51:04 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <1ee.2e8bffe6.2ec805f8@aol.com> Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 19:51:04 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mystery fabric To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5034 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/13/2004 12:29:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca writes: It's black voided velvet, That suggests it might be a blend--the part that was "voided" could have been made of something else. That may be why you are having a problem identifying it. I think rayon is the most likely candidate. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 13 21:51:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAE2pu3k011328 for ; Sat, 13 Nov 2004 21:51:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAE2pE4a025433 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 13 Nov 2004 19:51:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAE2ouhK013659; Sat, 13 Nov 2004 19:50:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp811.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp811.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.170.81]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iAE2otxA013643 for ; Sat, 13 Nov 2004 19:50:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net) Received: from unknown (HELO lazear1) (cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net@67.118.230.145 with login) by smtp811.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Nov 2004 02:50:54 -0000 Message-ID: <00ef01c4c9f4$c9f7f410$0701a8c0@lazear1> From: "Cabbage Rose Costumes" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000801c4c880$92f586f0$0200a8c0@MOM> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 50s Tulle Petticoats Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 18:51:06 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Penny, Unless you are absolutely dying to make it (and if so, I've got a lovely pattern, but it may be O/P), you might want to try Malco Modes in Tennessee. 423-775-5919, toll free 1-800-777-1320. Anyone with a resale license can buy them direct, they come in over 20 colors and they have both tulle and nylon. I bought some in bulk for West Side Story myself. The nylon ones are $25 each and that is so much cheaper than making them (they used something like 65 yards of nylon, if you include all the gathers). They are the largest manufacturer in the country for square dancing pettis. But maybe you love to make gathers, in which case, I'll go look up the pattern number! angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none: be able for thine enemy rather in power than use, and keep thy friend under thy own life's key: be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..." W. Shakespeare ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 10:26 PM Subject: [h-cost] 50s Tulle Petticoats I am costuming West Side Story. Does anyone know of a pattern by the Big 3 patternmakers that has a pattern for the 1950s Tulle petticoats for teenagers? Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Online Reference Library, AND Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumegallery.com/research.htm www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 13 23:49:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAE4nqII012784 for ; Sat, 13 Nov 2004 23:49:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAE4mU4a002053 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 13 Nov 2004 21:48:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAE4mK5S090325; Sat, 13 Nov 2004 21:48:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth04.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth04.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.64]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAE4mIHU090301 for ; Sat, 13 Nov 2004 21:48:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [4.152.117.88] (helo=MOM) by smtpauth04.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CTCJF-0004Tn-NN for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 13 Nov 2004 23:48:18 -0500 Message-ID: <008201c4ca05$2b1ee9f0$0200a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000801c4c880$92f586f0$0200a8c0@MOM> <00ef01c4c9f4$c9f7f410$0701a8c0@lazear1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 50s Tulle Petticoats Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 23:48:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 140fedcc4d524cc6b18d26c2e407058b94f5150ab1c16ac0549fb11073be4ad3808baccb56302743fb129ab0fc9f4aa0350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.152.117.88 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/585/Thu Nov 11 05:22:42 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id iAE4nqII012784 Status: RO Angela, Thank you for the suggestions. I will keep it in mind for the next time. Tonight I met with the Richmond Square Dance Association and they are willing to loan us as many net petticoats we need. The people were so nice. My young asst. designer really enjoyed the day of thrift store hopping. I think we have another one for the next generation of costumers. Gotta love her! She follows me around taking notes non-stop. She is like a sponge that can't soak up enough information. She had a good time with the square dancers. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Online Reference Library, AND Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumegallery.com/research.htm www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 14 06:42:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAEBg6tD031613 for ; Sun, 14 Nov 2004 06:42:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAEBfM4a022898 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 14 Nov 2004 04:41:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAEBf9L7048607; Sun, 14 Nov 2004 04:41:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m20.mx.aol.com (imo-m20.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAEBf6Ak048521 for ; Sun, 14 Nov 2004 04:41:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.1f6.259cf53 (4426) for ; Sun, 14 Nov 2004 06:40:55 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <1f6.259cf53.2ec89e47@aol.com> Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 06:40:55 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] 50s Tulle Petticoats To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5034 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/587/Sat Nov 13 18:57:41 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/587/Sat Nov 13 18:57:41 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/13/2004 9:54:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net writes: Unless you are absolutely dying to make it (and if so, I've got a lovely pattern, but it may be O/P), you might want to try Malco Modes in Tennessee. I think your information is outdated--I believe Malco Modes went out of business a couple of years ago. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 14 08:47:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAEDlHiv001157 for ; Sun, 14 Nov 2004 08:47:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAEDkb4a010953 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 14 Nov 2004 06:46:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAEDkUGA018903; Sun, 14 Nov 2004 06:46:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAEDkTjk018763 for ; Sun, 14 Nov 2004 06:46:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.13) id AAA739D10094; Sun, 14 Nov 2004 08:16:23 -0500 Received: from 209.131.81.101 ([209.131.81.101] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 14 Nov 04 13:16:21 -0000 Message-ID: <002201c4ca4c$29956b80$655183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20041113183803.C42BBA542A1@bilbo.suffolk.lib.ny.us> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mystery fabric Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 08:16:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0446-2, 11/11/2004), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/587/Sat Nov 13 18:57:41 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/587/Sat Nov 13 18:57:41 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think the pattern of the burnout will be the clue for age. I have a garment with a similar motif that is clearly mid 20's. And my guess is also rayon. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth Chamberlain" To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 1:39 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Mystery fabric > What about an "old" rayon, from the 20's or 30's? The process has changes > some so the burn results would be slightly different. I have some old > pieces, and a dress, of my grandmothers. The velvet is incredibly soft and > silky. It could very easily pass for silk. I can't get to any of it right > now but my recollection is that all the rayon (velvet or otherwise) pieces I > inherited were 32 or 35 wide. > > Beth > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 14 14:49:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAEJnCOC007518 for ; Sun, 14 Nov 2004 14:49:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAEJlI4a005292 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 14 Nov 2004 12:47:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAEJl7xT044218; Sun, 14 Nov 2004 12:47:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.182]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iAEJl5xZ044192 for ; Sun, 14 Nov 2004 12:47:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net) Received: from unknown (HELO lazear1) (cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net@67.118.230.145 with login) by smtp803.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Nov 2004 19:47:05 -0000 Message-ID: <007201c4ca82$6f1f54a0$0701a8c0@lazear1> From: "Cabbage Rose Costumes" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1f6.259cf53.2ec89e47@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 50s Tulle Petticoats Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 11:45:02 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/587/Sat Nov 13 18:57:41 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/587/Sat Nov 13 18:57:41 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ann, I think you may be thinking of the SF division. They moved from their location here in SF (where they were for decades) back to their homeland in Tennessee, but I believe they are still in business there. They almost dropped off the face of the earth judging by how hard it was to find their listing (although many square dancing places still offer MM pettis). Took me quite awhile to find the new address, but I finally did and ordered a catalogue. My catalogue is dated January 02, and I bought from them in December of that year. Exchanged emails in early spring 2003 re: photos of the show for their records. The numbers I have are still connected and they are also still listed in the yellow pages. I can check again tomorrow when they should be in and let everyone know, but I'm pretty sure they're still around. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none: be able for thine enemy rather in power than use, and keep thy friend under thy own life's key: be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..." W. Shakespeare ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2004 3:40 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 50s Tulle Petticoats > In a message dated 11/13/2004 9:54:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, > cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net writes: > Unless you are absolutely dying to make it (and if so, I've got a lovely > pattern, but it may be O/P), you might want to try Malco Modes in > Tennessee. > I think your information is outdated--I believe Malco Modes went out of > business a couple of years ago. > > Ann Wass > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 14 15:08:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAEK8GZW007835 for ; Sun, 14 Nov 2004 15:08:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAEK7c4a006431 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 14 Nov 2004 13:07:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAEK7Wuq056080; Sun, 14 Nov 2004 13:07:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065d19.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065d19.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.253]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAEK7Uom056060 for ; Sun, 14 Nov 2004 13:07:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from perronnelle@earthlink.net) Received: from user-12hc6s3.cable.mindspring.com ([69.22.27.131] helo=[192.168.1.100]) by pop-a065d19.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CTQen-00002H-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 14 Nov 2004 12:07:29 -0800 Message-ID: <4197BAF2.1040301@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 14:07:14 -0600 From: Charlene Charette User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20040616 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume List Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/587/Sat Nov 13 18:57:41 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/587/Sat Nov 13 18:57:41 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] button molds X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm attempting to make the Death's Head buttons from Nancy Nehring's "50 Heirloom Buttons to Make." Does anyone have a source for the button molds? Thanks, --Charlene -- These are dangerous times. When we are afraid, we want to be protected, and since we cannot protect ourselves against such horrors as mass murder by bombers, we are tempted to run to the government, a government that is always willing to trade the promise of protection for our freedom, which left, as always, the question: How much freedom are we willing to relinquish for such a bald promise? -- Gerry Spence, _From_Freedom_to_Slavery, 1995 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 14 18:54:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAENsSTG012832 for ; Sun, 14 Nov 2004 18:54:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAENrY4a021659 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 14 Nov 2004 16:53:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAENrI92092109; Sun, 14 Nov 2004 16:53:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web50604.mail.yahoo.com (web50604.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.91]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iAENrGDQ092037 for ; Sun, 14 Nov 2004 16:53:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 76546 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Nov 2004 23:53:09 -0000 Message-ID: <20041114235309.76544.qmail@web50604.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.198.54.41] by web50604.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 14 Nov 2004 18:53:09 EST Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 18:53:09 -0500 (EST) From: Kathy Page Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mystery fabric To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200411141901.iAEJ1jHJ015074@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/587/Sat Nov 13 18:57:41 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/587/Sat Nov 13 18:57:41 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dawn wrote: > Rayon tends to feel 'cold' to the touch. When I put my hand into the folds, it does not feel any cooler than any other average fabric. >If you hang rayon wrinkles tend to fall out. The wrinkles have not changed since that pic, and it has been hanging since I posted the original message. > It 'looks' like a poly blend base to me in the > photo, but it's hard to > be sure without being able to touch it. That's why I asked the question. Fingers are saying polyester, but the rest of my senses say otherwise. My gut instinct said poly base and silk pile, but in all cases - I separated warp, weft and pile they burned exactly the same. Smelled clearly of burning paper/leaves, no chemical smell, and when I convinced it to burn to ashes, no plasticky/gummy residue, just soft spidery ash. > As for the width, a lot of overseas fabrics not made > for export are > narrower than fabrics sold in the US market. I can accept that, the chinese brocade I buy 35" or so. > > How much heat do you need to apply to the flat areas > to get it ironed? I had it set to dry/cotton and that was too much. In fact it turned the flat spots shiny. > If you grab a handful and wrinkle it into a ball how > does it react when > you let go? It accepts *some* wrinkling after hot moist breath is blown into the fistful, and more or less fall back out again afterward. > Does it stain when you get it wet? No. Test a spot with a damp piece of clean > muslin to see if color > will rub off. Absolutely none. Ann wrote: > It's black voided velvet, > That suggests it might be a blend--the part that was > "voided" could have been > made of something else. That may be why you are > having a problem identifying > it. What part though? that is what's getting me. Having separated warp, weft and pile and burned them independantly, I can't figure it out. The voided sections were not chemically voided - this fabric was woven that way. The wrong side of the velvet shows the weave changes as the loops were added into the wefts. > > I think rayon is the most likely candidate. I tend to agree. It walks like a duck, sounds like a duck... just doesn't feel like one. Really weird. Kathleen wrote: > I think the pattern of the burnout will be the clue > for age. I have a > garment with a similar motif that is clearly mid > 20's. And my guess is also > rayon. I remember having some cut velvet jaquard roughly 20 (I can't believe it was THAT long ago now...) years ago for my grad dress I had made, and it had a striking resemblance to this pattern as well. Beth wrote: > The process has changes > > some so the burn results would be slightly > different. It wasn't burnt.. that's another thing that threw me off. I have some old > > pieces, and a dress, of my grandmothers. The > velvet is incredibly soft and > > silky. It could very easily pass for silk. I keep expecting it to smell like hair every time I burn it that's how close to silk it feels. rayon > (velvet or otherwise) pieces > I > > inherited were 32 or 35 wide. It's entirely possible. I would have thought though after so many years presumably packed up it would have developed severe fold lines in the velvet and that typical "old" smell... it has neither. Kathy ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 14 19:06:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAF06nat013025 for ; Sun, 14 Nov 2004 19:06:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAF06B4a022438 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 14 Nov 2004 17:06:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAF066v9099424; Sun, 14 Nov 2004 17:06:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.201]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iAF0639F099346 for ; Sun, 14 Nov 2004 17:06:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Nov 2004 00:05:57 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041115000027.0145fd08@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 00:06:10 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mystery fabric In-Reply-To: <20041114235309.76544.qmail@web50604.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200411141901.iAEJ1jHJ015074@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/587/Sat Nov 13 18:57:41 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/587/Sat Nov 13 18:57:41 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Snip > >I have some old > > > pieces, and a dress, of my grandmothers. The > > velvet is incredibly soft and > > > silky. It could very easily pass for silk. >snip >It's entirely possible. I would have thought though >after so many years presumably packed up it would have >developed severe fold lines in the velvet and that >typical "old" smell... it has neither. I have a voided velvet shawl if my grandmother's that must be over 60 years old, kept in tissue, not acid free originally, and it looks as good as new. It is silky, soft, uncreased, doesn't have an old smell, and no fold lines. However, I am not prepared to put it through all those tests as it is in virtually mint condition, hand made with silk (?) fringe and I love it. It has multi-coloured hydrangea heads all over! If I went somewhere posh, I'd wear it- it is gorgeous! Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 15 00:06:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAF56phQ016894 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 00:06:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAF55x4a013675 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 14 Nov 2004 22:05:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAF55Ws3080262; Sun, 14 Nov 2004 22:05:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.187]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iAF55Uk1080244 for ; Sun, 14 Nov 2004 22:05:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lizyoung@fenris.net) Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (glenn.mcgregor@sbcglobal.net@67.122.235.205 with plain) by smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Nov 2004 05:05:30 -0000 Message-ID: <41983919.4080407@fenris.net> Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 21:05:29 -0800 From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.9 (Windows/20041103) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/587/Sat Nov 13 18:57:41 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/587/Sat Nov 13 18:57:41 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Giovanna Tornabuoni dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I (eventually) want to make a dress like this one. Domenico Ghirlandaio. Portrait of Giovanna Tornabuoni. 1488 http://www.abcgallery.com/G/ghirlandao/ghirlandaio26.html I know that I have books with plenty of paintings of full length women in them in dresses like this, but all my books are packed and inaccessible. And I can't remember a single artist's name. Waaah! Can you kind people point me to web resources that have these sorts of dresses in full length? I am trying to get a better idea of the overall style. Fancy sleeves, tabard-thing are what I am interested in. Thanks! liz young _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 15 00:37:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAF5bvbZ017336 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 00:37:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAF5b54a015576 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 14 Nov 2004 22:37:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAF5b2AT098116; Sun, 14 Nov 2004 22:37:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iAF5b0pn098101 for ; Sun, 14 Nov 2004 22:37:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 21497 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2004 05:38:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO webmail.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com with SMTP; 15 Nov 2004 05:38:31 -0000 Received: from 24.4.69.40 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com); by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP; Sun, 14 Nov 2004 21:36:59 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1247.24.4.69.40.1100497019.squirrel@24.4.69.40> In-Reply-To: <003a01c4c5a7$3cd30850$6401a8c0@Lillesoster> References: <003a01c4c5a7$3cd30850$6401a8c0@Lillesoster> Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 21:36:59 -0800 (PST) From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a X-Mailer: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/587/Sat Nov 13 18:57:41 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/587/Sat Nov 13 18:57:41 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] OT-Dye help X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello everyone! I have an OT question but I know someone out there will know the answer. I have a cotton tablecloth that was a light sage green when I bought it. Several washes later it has faded to almost eggshell. I would like to re-dye it but don't know what brand to use. I usually do Rit dye but the colors are all dark-ish. I saw Dylon dyes at JoAnn's but the closest color was Olive and I am not sure if it will give me the right color. So does anyone out there know where I can get a fabric dye that will make something sage green and won't fade that quickly? Thanks for the help! Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 15 00:54:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAF5snDN017626 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 00:54:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAF5rC4a016364 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 14 Nov 2004 22:53:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAF5r8p6007090; Sun, 14 Nov 2004 22:53:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iAF5r4Nb007058 for ; Sun, 14 Nov 2004 22:53:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 24668 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2004 05:54:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO webmail.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com with SMTP; 15 Nov 2004 05:54:35 -0000 Received: from 24.4.69.40 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com); by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP; Sun, 14 Nov 2004 21:53:04 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1463.24.4.69.40.1100497984.squirrel@24.4.69.40> In-Reply-To: <1247.24.4.69.40.1100497019.squirrel@24.4.69.40> References: <003a01c4c5a7$3cd30850$6401a8c0@Lillesoster> <1247.24.4.69.40.1100497019.squirrel@24.4.69.40> Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 21:53:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT-Dye help From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a X-Mailer: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/587/Sat Nov 13 18:57:41 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/587/Sat Nov 13 18:57:41 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I usually do Rit dye but the > colors are all dark-ish. I saw Dylon dyes at JoAnn's but the closest > color was Olive and I am not sure if it will give me the right color. Okay, so I have more info now...RIT has a color recipe chart that I found and they have a mixture for sage green that I might try. But I would prefer to use a dye that is actually supposed to be sage green. Thanks! Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 15 01:47:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAF6lwcm018720 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 01:47:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAF6lG4a022162 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 14 Nov 2004 23:47:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAF6l8iT044561; Sun, 14 Nov 2004 23:47:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay20-dav10.bay20.hotmail.com [64.4.54.190]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAF6l6tW044488 for ; Sun, 14 Nov 2004 23:47:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 14 Nov 2004 22:47:00 -0800 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by BAY20-DAV10.phx.gbl with DAV; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 06:46:40 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <003a01c4c5a7$3cd30850$6401a8c0@Lillesoster> <1247.24.4.69.40.1100497019.squirrel@24.4.69.40> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT-Dye help Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 01:13:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Nov 2004 06:47:00.0617 (UTC) FILETIME=[E88AAF90:01C4CADE] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/587/Sat Nov 13 18:57:41 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/587/Sat Nov 13 18:57:41 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO www.dharmatrading.com But a darker dye, any brand, if you leave it just a few minutes, will work too, though the colours might shift a little (a green might be a little yellowisn or blueish than expected). ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 12:36 AM Subject: [h-cost] OT-Dye help > Hello everyone! > > I have an OT question but I know someone out there will know the answer. > > I have a cotton tablecloth that was a light sage green when I bought it. > Several washes later it has faded to almost eggshell. I would like to > re-dye it but don't know what brand to use. I usually do Rit dye but the > colors are all dark-ish. I saw Dylon dyes at JoAnn's but the closest > color was Olive and I am not sure if it will give me the right color. > > So does anyone out there know where I can get a fabric dye that will make > something sage green and won't fade that quickly? > > Thanks for the help! > > Diana > > > www.RenaissanceFabrics.net > "Everything for the Costumer" > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 15 01:50:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAF6oAOv018781 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 01:50:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAF6nZ4a022252 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 14 Nov 2004 23:49:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAF6nYnd045923; Sun, 14 Nov 2004 23:49:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay20-dav13.bay20.hotmail.com [64.4.54.193]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAF6l6P2044487 for ; Sun, 14 Nov 2004 23:47:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 14 Nov 2004 22:47:00 -0800 Received: from 66.130.163.130 by BAY20-DAV13.phx.gbl with DAV; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 06:46:39 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [66.130.163.130] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20041113172420.67429.qmail@web50601.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mystery fabric Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 01:07:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Nov 2004 06:47:00.0571 (UTC) FILETIME=[E883AAB0:01C4CADE] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/587/Sat Nov 13 18:57:41 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/587/Sat Nov 13 18:57:41 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It smells like burning paper, and it's shiney, I'd say rayon, at least for the pile. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathy Page" To: "Historical Costume List" Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 12:24 PM Subject: [h-cost] Mystery fabric > I was at the antique shop yesterday and picked up just > a bit over 4 yards of some really nifty fabric. (I > don't even HAVE to be in a fabric store to sniff out > the stuff!) Problem is, I am having a dickens of a > time figuring out the fibre content. > It's black voided velvet, when burn tested separately > warp, weft and pile all have a distinct papery > smelling smoke, resists flame at first, burns with an > orange flame and smoulders with an afterglow. The ash, > when I could finally get it reduced to ash, was dark > grey and soft. All this points to cotton/linen/rayon, > but does *not* look or feel like it. I threw a sample > into bleach, and there is no marked degredation of the > fibres, and in some stripes, it resisted changing > colour as well. The hand of the fabric is very much > like duchesse satin, the satin is an almost matte > finish and the pile is shiny and luxuriously soft. I > took pictures, both with and without a flash: > http://members.rogers.com/kpage49/IMG_1045.JPG > http://members.rogers.com/kpage49/IMG_1046.JPG > Interestingly, it is only 35 inches wide. Something I > haven't seen in a modern couture fabric before. I have > *no* clue on where it came from or how old it actually > is. > I realise this is a very difficult forum to ask such a > touchy-feely question, but I honestly have no idea > what this is made of. Any opinions are welcome. > > Kathy > > ______________________________________________________________________ > Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 15 02:47:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAF7laCl004613 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 02:47:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAF7kl4a025419 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 15 Nov 2004 00:46:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAF7kdnw077652; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 00:46:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.67]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAF7kawZ077631 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 00:46:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from [4.155.57.49] (helo=HELENPINTO) by smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CTbZL-0001LU-KS for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 02:46:36 -0500 Message-ID: <013801c4cae7$35549bd0$31399b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <003a01c4c5a7$3cd30850$6401a8c0@Lillesoster> <1247.24.4.69.40.1100497019.squirrel@24.4.69.40> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT-Dye help Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 02:46:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb69025943178dce0b910caefc3421c7cc13b5e74edc629204350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.155.57.49 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/587/Sat Nov 13 18:57:41 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/587/Sat Nov 13 18:57:41 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Diana wrote: > So does anyone out there know where I can get a fabric dye that will make > something sage green and won't fade that quickly? Try Dharma Trading: http://www.dharmatrading.com/ They have many brands of dye and one of them should have what you want. You can call the customer service people; they are very knowledgeable and helpful. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 15 04:39:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAF9dc1E016317 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 04:39:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAF9FC4a028687 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 15 Nov 2004 02:15:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAF9Ebr0024034; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 02:14:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web50603.mail.yahoo.com (web50603.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iAF9EYdU023963 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 02:14:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 90497 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Nov 2004 09:14:29 -0000 Message-ID: <20041115091428.90495.qmail@web50603.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.198.54.41] by web50603.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 04:14:28 EST Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 04:14:28 -0500 (EST) From: Kathy Page To: Historical Costume List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/587/Sat Nov 13 18:57:41 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/587/Sat Nov 13 18:57:41 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Mask making and history X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO hooooookay... I finally have the page up. Because my darling husband designed this site, it has some goofy nagivation issues, so just follow the road map I have to give you and everything will be fine. http://outoftheattic.homeip.net/frameset.html start here click on "gallery" click on "Venetian masks and the Martedi Grasso" Bjarne, in your case, this information is a teeny bit too old, however, I can safely tell you that because of your dating you have far more latitude in materials, techniques and styles than this essay covers. This will hopefully help you get started, however. Kathy ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 15 08:58:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAFDwrQh020672 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 08:58:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAFDw94a027397 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 15 Nov 2004 06:58:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAFDvYId078110; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 06:57:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAFDvUSq078064 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 06:57:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from Bellview.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id iAFDvSfl007350 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 08:57:28 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20041115085628.018e8ec0@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 08:57:27 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] Giovanna Tornabuoni dress In-Reply-To: <41983919.4080407@fenris.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey Liz - try this one. "The birth of Mary" by the same artist. Shows a full ciopa on the visitors. Bridgette http://www.abcgallery.com/G/ghirlandao/ghirlandaio7.html >I (eventually) want to make a dress like this one. >Domenico Ghirlandaio. Portrait of Giovanna Tornabuoni. 1488 >http://www.abcgallery.com/G/ghirlandao/ghirlandaio26.html >I know that I have books with plenty of paintings of full length women in >them in dresses like this, but all my books are packed and inaccessible. >And I can't remember a single artist's name. >Waaah! >Can you kind people point me to web resources that have these sorts of >dresses in full length? I am trying to get a better idea of the overall style. >Fancy sleeves, tabard-thing are what I am interested in. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 15 09:34:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAFEYboW021975 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 09:34:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAFEY04a029595 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 15 Nov 2004 07:34:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAFEXqLB001111; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 07:33:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAFEXnXq001044 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 07:33:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m153.in-tch.com [216.166.191.153]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id iAFEW1Q21330 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 07:32:01 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <4198BF60.40707@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 07:38:24 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Giovanna Tornabuoni dress References: <41983919.4080407@fenris.net> In-Reply-To: <41983919.4080407@fenris.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Liz! I just purely adore this kind of Italian clothing, and I've always seriously lusted after this particular dress, even as I grumble about trying to find a match for the brocades! The best website I've got for it, at least this morning, is festive attyre (she' got lots and lots of really yummy stuff...don't get lost!) A link to a good "gallery" of this kind of image (including more of the very same gown) can be found below: http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/earlyflor/portfolio.html Have fun! --sue Elizabeth Young wrote: > I (eventually) want to make a dress like this one. > Domenico Ghirlandaio. Portrait of Giovanna Tornabuoni. 1488 > http://www.abcgallery.com/G/ghirlandao/ghirlandaio26.html > I know that I have books with plenty of paintings of full length women > in them in dresses like this, but all my books are packed and > inaccessible. And I can't remember a single artist's name. > Waaah! > Can you kind people point me to web resources that have these sorts of > dresses in full length? I am trying to get a better idea of the overall > style. > Fancy sleeves, tabard-thing are what I am interested in. > > Thanks! > > liz young _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 15 09:45:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAFEjmat022064 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 09:45:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAFEiu4a000361 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 15 Nov 2004 07:44:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAFEioe1008246; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 07:44:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.142]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iAFEikYR008149 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 07:44:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Nov 2004 14:44:40 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041115144238.01460330@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 14:44:54 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Giovanna Tornabuoni dress In-Reply-To: <4198BF60.40707@in-tch.com> References: <41983919.4080407@fenris.net> <41983919.4080407@fenris.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 07:38 15/11/2004 -0700, you wrote: >Hi, Liz! I just purely adore this kind of Italian clothing, and I've >always seriously lusted after this particular dress, even as I grumble >about trying to find a match for the brocades! >The best website I've got for it, at least this morning, is festive attyre >(she' got lots and lots of really yummy stuff...don't get lost!) >A link to a good "gallery" of this kind of image (including more of the >very same gown) can be found below: > > http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/earlyflor/portfolio.html > >Have fun! >--sue > >Elizabeth Young wrote: >>I (eventually) want to make a dress like this one. >>Domenico Ghirlandaio. Portrait of Giovanna Tornabuoni. 1488 >>http://www.abcgallery.com/G/ghirlandao/ghirlandaio26.html >>I know that I have books with plenty of paintings of full length women in >>them in dresses like this, but all my books are packed and inaccessible. >>And I can't remember a single artist's name. >>Waaah! >>Can you kind people point me to web resources that have these sorts of >>dresses in full length? I am trying to get a better idea of the overall style. >>Fancy sleeves, tabard-thing are what I am interested in. You will find a pattern for this kind of dress in Jean Hunnisett's "Period Costume for Stage and Screen Medieval to 1500". Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 15 11:26:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAFGQujI023605 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 11:26:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAFGQL4a009426 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 15 Nov 2004 09:26:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAFGQH5X091064; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 09:26:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAFGQEMi091014 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 09:26:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.110] (p46.3c02.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.110]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id iAFGOg831654 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 09:24:42 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <1247.24.4.69.40.1100497019.squirrel@24.4.69.40> References: <003a01c4c5a7$3cd30850$6401a8c0@Lillesoster> <1247.24.4.69.40.1100497019.squirrel@24.4.69.40> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT-Dye help Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 09:31:22 -0700 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You could use either Rit or Dylon if you don't want to order dye from a dye house. Get a couple colors and mix them to get the shade you want. Use less if you don't want it as dark. But either Dharma on the west coast or Pro Chem on the east coast probably will have the color you want if you don't mind mail order. On Nov 14, 2004, at 10:36 PM, Diana Habra wrote: > Hello everyone! > > I have an OT question but I know someone out there will know the > answer. > > I have a cotton tablecloth that was a light sage green when I bought > it. > Several washes later it has faded to almost eggshell. I would like to > re-dye it but don't know what brand to use. I usually do Rit dye but > the > colors are all dark-ish. I saw Dylon dyes at JoAnn's but the closest > color was Olive and I am not sure if it will give me the right color. > > So does anyone out there know where I can get a fabric dye that will > make > something sage green and won't fade that quickly? > > Thanks for the help! > > Diana > > > www.RenaissanceFabrics.net > "Everything for the Costumer" > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 15 11:27:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAFGRaK4023616 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 11:27:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAFGLr4a009013 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 15 Nov 2004 09:21:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAFGLdME085985; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 09:21:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth01.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth01.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAFGLZ6J085892 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 09:21:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [4.152.198.75] (helo=MOM) by smtpauth01.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CTjbg-0005j1-Nl for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 11:21:33 -0500 Message-ID: <01f801c4cb2f$2f0b7d00$0200a8c0@MOM> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200411121609.iACG9GGE083961@net.indra.com> <6.1.2.0.0.20041113115350.063d6ec0@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: tulle petticoats Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 11:21:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 140fedcc4d524cc6b18d26c2e407058b94f5150ab1c16ac0549fb11073be4ad31fd9031c3edc3d745d84a1a19afe1924350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.152.198.75 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id iAFGRaK4023616 Status: RO Many thanks to everyone who sent such speedy advice about the tulle petticoats. I really do appreciate it. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Online Reference Library, AND Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumegallery.com/research.htm www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 15 11:29:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAFGTwop023650 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 11:29:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAFGTI4a009803 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 15 Nov 2004 09:29:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAFGTDpq093539; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 09:29:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAFGTAjs093384 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 09:29:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from webwarren@earthlink.net) Received: from cottontail.webwarren.com (pcp09760503pcs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.38.25.187]) by webwarren.com (8.12.10/8.11.2) with ESMTP id iAFGSZsG022246 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 11:28:35 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.0.20041115104725.02068678@earthlink.net> X-Sender: n2kye@mail.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 11:28:22 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Subject: Re: [h-cost] button molds In-Reply-To: <200411151446.iAFEka4x009471@net.indra.com> References: <200411151446.iAFEka4x009471@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At Sun, 14 Nov 2004 14:07:14 -0600, Charlene Charette wrote: >I'm attempting to make the Death's Head buttons from Nancy Nehring's "50 >Heirloom Buttons to Make." Does anyone have a source for the button molds? I tried this using flat wooden cylinders from the craft shop, about 3/4" diameter and less than 1/8" thick. Without integral shanks, these would be sewn on with either perle cotton (used to wrap the wood) or the appropriate sewing thread (or buttonhole twist). Samples are at http://photos.yahoo.com/n2kye/ in the "50 Heirloom Buttons" album. For a smaller button with a domed top, you might be able to get away with those caps that are used to cover screw holes in knockdown furniture (also available from your local craft store). Options I've not tried (and which are not authentic) might be to use round glass or plastic cabouchons (same craft store) or those flat round glass stones used for floral arrangements (ditto). Hope this helps. Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 15 11:57:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAFGvvSu024176 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 11:57:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAFGvI4a012866 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 15 Nov 2004 09:57:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAFGvBBL020332; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 09:57:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail12.mdx.safepages.com (mail12.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.154.242]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAFGv5Uo020090 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 09:57:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail12.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id E0F9AB7A0; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 16:56:56 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust240.tnt2.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.178.240]) by mail12.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id BFC46B569 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 16:56:55 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <00a001c4cb34$2664ba90$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <003a01c4c5a7$3cd30850$6401a8c0@Lillesoster><1247.24.4.69.40.1100497019.squirrel@24.4.69.40> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT-Dye help Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 10:57:10 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Diluted dark dyes will dye light quite nicely, but a couple of tips: 1) be SURE to get the fabric soaking wet in plain water before you put it in the dye bath (or in salt water, if it's the sort of fabric that takes a while to get really wet and if salt is part of the dye recipe, like with RIT) and 2) be sure that the dye bath is very diluted and is completely mixed (no powder residue anywhere in it). -E House: the voice of ruined-fabric experience! =} _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 15 12:01:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAFH1fVP024242 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 12:01:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAFH0k4a013327 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 15 Nov 2004 10:00:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAFH0SCL023438; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 10:00:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAFH0Ke6023167 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 10:00:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bee9.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.233]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id DBE615EE079 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 18:00:08 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <005801c4cb34$9deb54c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20041115091428.90495.qmail@web50603.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mask making and history Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 18:00:29 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Kathy, A million thanks for your fine site. It will be a great resource and inspiration for me. This was a generous gesture............. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathy Page" To: "Historical Costume List" Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 10:14 AM Subject: [h-cost] Mask making and history > hooooookay... I finally have the page up. Because my > darling husband designed this site, it has some goofy > nagivation issues, so just follow the road map I have > to give you and everything will be fine. > > http://outoftheattic.homeip.net/frameset.html start > here > click on "gallery" > click on "Venetian masks and the Martedi Grasso" > > Bjarne, in your case, this information is a teeny bit > too old, however, I can safely tell you that because > of your dating you have far more latitude in > materials, techniques and styles than this essay > covers. This will hopefully help you get started, > however. > > Kathy > > ______________________________________________________________________ > Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 15 13:15:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAFIF6NW025318 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 13:15:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAFIEO4a022055 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 15 Nov 2004 11:14:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAFIEDOY093941; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 11:14:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp810.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp810.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.170.80]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iAFIE6Dv093793 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 11:14:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from angelalazear@sbcglobal.net) Received: from unknown (HELO AngelaFLazear) (angelalazear@sbcglobal.net@63.202.198.62 with login) by smtp810.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Nov 2004 18:14:06 -0000 Message-ID: <001201c4cb3e$e4d1c4a0$2a0010ac@AngelaFLazear> From: "angelalazear" To: Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 10:14:00 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Malco Modes alive & well X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just so you all know, I did receive email confirmation from Malco that they are not out of busines. They are just moved to Tennessee. So if you are in the market for wholesale pettis, I can repost the information any time. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes Theatrical Costume Design "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none: be able for thine enemy rather in power than use, and keep thy friend under thy own life's key: be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..." All's Well That Ends Well 1.1.65-6, Countess to Bertram W. Shakespeare http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com +++++++++++++ Message from MALCO MODES below: Hi, Angela! Thanks for checking! As you can see we are still here. I can't imagine as busy as we are, anyone thinking we were gone. So, it was just that...a Nasty Rumour! Let me know if you have any more questions. I'll be happy to answer. Take care & be safe! Sharon Sharon Vandergriff Sales & Customer Service Manager _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 15 14:14:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAFJEdnv026444 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 14:14:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAFJDf4a028909 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 15 Nov 2004 12:13:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAFJDVJg049328; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 12:13:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAFJDSBU049252 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 12:13:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E11B72E983 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 13:13:24 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p380.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.126]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 00E3ED3DF for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 13:13:23 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Giovanna Tornabuoni dress Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 13:13:26 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <4198BF60.40707@in-tch.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://www.abcgallery.com/G/ghirlandao/ghirlandaio26.html When I saw this I remembered that there was a full length portrait. http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/earlyflor/3flor12.html Then I found it. (a rarety with me) De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 15 14:24:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAFJOkqh026635 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 14:24:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAFJNx4a029874 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 15 Nov 2004 12:23:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAFJNocg058234; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 12:23:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065d05.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065d05.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.249]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAFJNlo1058203 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 12:23:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hardcorps@earthlink.net) Received: from daisy.psp.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.78.223]) by pop-a065d05.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CTmS3-0004hq-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 11:23:47 -0800 Message-ID: <22134402.1100546627309.JavaMail.root@daisy.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 11:23:47 -0800 (PST) From: Frank and Tracy Thallas To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Giovanna Tornabuoni dress Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wow. You know, I have seen both those pics - in the same book at practically the same time! - and never noticed it was the same girl in the same dress........... Liadain -----Original Message----- From: otsisto Sent: Nov 15, 2004 11:13 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Giovanna Tornabuoni dress http://www.abcgallery.com/G/ghirlandao/ghirlandaio26.html When I saw this I remembered that there was a full length portrait. http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/earlyflor/3flor12.html Then I found it. (a rarety with me) De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 15 17:01:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAFM17K0029601 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 17:01:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAFLx64a016023 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 15 Nov 2004 14:59:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAFLvhOn088574; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 14:57:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-118.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.118]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAFLvGtY088110 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 14:57:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by mail.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FCDC425D5 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 17:28:33 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <41992622.80201@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 15:56:50 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] what the heck is she wearing? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Has anyone here in the US seen that silly Karo commercial, 'Thou makest good pie'? They have the housewife dressed up in some sort of pseudo-pilgrim getup with buckle shoes and a crochet shawl and a cap. I'm trying to figure out those sleeves. They seem to have a large pleated puff from elbow to wrist, but since the dress is black I can't see it clearly. Can anyone identify the time period (if any) for that sleeve style? Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 15 17:57:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAFMvWIv030344 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 17:57:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAFMuU4a023896 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 15 Nov 2004 15:56:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAFMuL1W040530; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 15:56:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from gloworm.concentric.com (gloworm.concentric.com [207.155.248.155]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAFMuEX5040400 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 15:56:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) Received: (root@localhost) by gloworm.concentric.com id RAA28755; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 17:56:12 -0500 (EST) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.17] Message-ID: <200411152256.RAA28755@gloworm.concentric.com> From: Julie To: Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 14:56:11 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <200411151447.iAFEkbbQ009485@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id iAFMuEX5040400 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] button molds X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have that book too. I've found beads, both wooden and bone at various bead stores. In a real pinch I'd be tempted to make my own from Fimo in a neutral color. Julie > From: Charlene Charette > Subject: [h-cost] button molds > To: H-Costume List > Message-ID: <4197BAF2.1040301@earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > I'm attempting to make the Death's Head buttons from Nancy Nehring's "50 > Heirloom Buttons to Make." Does anyone have a source for the button molds? > > Thanks, > --Charlene > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 15 19:08:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAG08XXG031486 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 19:08:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAG07TJo004926 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 15 Nov 2004 17:07:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAG078ee096713; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 17:07:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAG074lg096661 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 17:07:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id iAG030TA011121 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 19:03:00 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 19:03:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <419944A6.5020206@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 19:07:02 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] More 1661 laces continued References: <41941702.4040401@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: <41941702.4040401@thibault.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Monday 11 November 1661 > > http://www.pepysdiary.com/archive/1661/11/11/index.php > > [...]Thence to the Wardrobe to dinner, and there by appointment met my > wife, who had by my direction brought some laces for my Lady to choose > one for her. And after dinner I went away, and left my wife and ladies > together, and all their work was about this lace of hers. > > [...] So to the Wardrobe, where I found my Lady had agreed upon a lace > for my wife of 6/. [I don't know what symbol '/.' is failing to > represent], which I seemed much glad of that it was no more, though in > my mind I think it too much, and I pray God keep me so to order myself > and my wife’s expenses that no inconvenience in purse or honour follow > this my prodigality. So by coach home. > Wednesday Nov 13 and so it raining very hard I went home by coach, with my mind very heavy for this my expensefull life, which will undo me, I fear, after all my hopes, if I do not take up, for now I am coming to lay out a great deal of money in clothes for my wife, I must forbear other expenses. Friday 15 November 1661 http://www.pepysdiary.com/archive/1661/11/15/index.php At home all the morning, and at noon with my wife to the Wardrobe to dinner, and there, did shew herself to my Lady in the handkercher that she bought the lace for the other day, and indeed it is very handsome. ... So, six pounds for enough lace for a "handkercher?" Anyone know how large this item must be? -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 15 19:21:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAG0Lpd8031638 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 19:21:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAG0LBJo005953 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 15 Nov 2004 17:21:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAG0L5HM006299; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 17:21:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp807.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp807.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.197]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iAG0L2sg006190 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 17:21:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp807.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Nov 2004 00:20:56 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041116001818.0151f9c8@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 00:20:54 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] More 1661 laces continued In-Reply-To: <419944A6.5020206@thibault.org> References: <41941702.4040401@thibault.org> <41941702.4040401@thibault.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 19:07 15/11/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Cynthia Virtue wrote: > >>Monday 11 November 1661 >>http://www.pepysdiary.com/archive/1661/11/11/index.php >>[...]Thence to the Wardrobe to dinner, and there by appointment met my >>wife, who had by my direction brought some laces for my Lady to choose >>one for her. And after dinner I went away, and left my wife and ladies >>together, and all their work was about this lace of hers. >>[...] So to the Wardrobe, where I found my Lady had agreed upon a lace >>for my wife of 6/. [I don't know what symbol '/.' is failing to >>represent], which I seemed much glad of that it was no more, though in my >>mind I think it too much, and I pray God keep me so to order myself and >>my wife's expenses that no inconvenience in purse or honour follow this >>my prodigality. So by coach home. >Wednesday Nov 13 > >and so it raining very hard I went home by coach, with my mind very heavy >for this my expensefull life, which will undo me, I fear, after all my >hopes, if I do not take up, for now I am coming to lay out a great deal of >money in clothes for my wife, I must forbear other expenses. > >Friday 15 November 1661 > >http://www.pepysdiary.com/archive/1661/11/15/index.php > >At home all the morning, and at noon with my wife to the Wardrobe to >dinner, and there, did shew herself to my Lady in the handkercher that she >bought the lace for the other day, and indeed it is very handsome. > >So, six pounds for enough lace for a "handkercher?" Anyone know how large >this item must be? Possibly what we now sometimes call a fichu, folded double and worn on the shoulders over the neck of the gown. The last one I made had about two yards of lace, possibly a bit more - I could measure if you need. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 15 19:28:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAG0SnmF031708 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 19:28:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAG0RcJo006499 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 15 Nov 2004 17:27:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAG0RWAI010147; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 17:27:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (mail.compassnet.com.au [203.26.180.18]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAG0RShL009979 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 17:27:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from glendar@compassnet.com.au) Received: from mail (root@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.10/linuxconf) with SMTP id iAG0b8aL007297 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 11:37:08 +1100 Received: from mycomputer ([203.26.180.163]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.10/linuxconf) with ESMTP id iAG0b3Le007273 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 11:37:07 +1100 Message-ID: <00e101c4cb73$06b63ae0$0100a8c0@mycomputer> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <41941702.4040401@thibault.org> <41941702.4040401@thibault.org> <5.1.0.14.2.20041116001818.0151f9c8@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] More 1661 laces continued Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 11:26:43 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>So, six pounds for enough lace for a "handkercher?" Anyone know how large >>this item must be? > > Possibly what we now sometimes call a fichu, folded double and worn on the > shoulders over the neck of the gown. The last one I made had about two > yards of lace, possibly a bit more - I could measure if you need. > > Suzi > I thought that was a kercher/kerchief. A Handkercher could possibly be smaller, similar to the Handkerchief. Glenda. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 16 01:08:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAG68ai8004805 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 01:08:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAG67qJo000202 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 15 Nov 2004 23:07:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAG67fML096588; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 23:07:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [206.170.184.16]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAG67X4m096505 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 23:07:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lists@margospatterns.com) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net15sp220.directcon.net [209.79.209.220]) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id iAG69U421454 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 22:09:30 -0800 Message-ID: <012101c4e334$74e84480$dcd14fd1@dnyeaqvf> From: To: "Historical Costume" References: <41992622.80201@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] what the heck is she wearing? Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 21:59:49 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Has anyone here in the US seen that silly Karo commercial, 'Thou makest > good pie'? They have the housewife dressed up in some sort of > pseudo-pilgrim getup with buckle shoes and a crochet shawl and a cap. > I'm trying to figure out those sleeves. They seem to have a large > pleated puff from elbow to wrist, but since the dress is black I can't > see it clearly. Can anyone identify the time period (if any) for that > sleeve style? I've only seen it once, but the dress looked like 1830's to me. They obviously pulled a bunch of costume pieces from some rental stock. Basically, they paid no more attention to costume accuracy than they did to the language. It's a cute commercial, nonetheless. Margo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 16 01:12:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAG6CbCk004873 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 01:12:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAG6C5Jo000376 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 15 Nov 2004 23:12:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAG6C0i9098877; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 23:12:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp814.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp814.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.170.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iAG6BP9g098542 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 23:11:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lizyoung@fenris.net) Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (glenn.mcgregor@sbcglobal.net@67.122.235.205 with plain) by smtp814.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Nov 2004 06:11:24 -0000 Message-ID: <41999A0C.4040503@fenris.net> Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 22:11:24 -0800 From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.9 (Windows/20041103) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Giovanna Tornabuoni dress References: <41983919.4080407@fenris.net> <41983919.4080407@fenris.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20041115144238.01460330@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20041115144238.01460330@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Suzi Clarke wrote: > At 07:38 15/11/2004 -0700, you wrote: > >> Hi, Liz! I just purely adore this kind of Italian clothing, and I've >> always seriously lusted after this particular dress, even as I grumble >> about trying to find a match for the brocades! Thank you Brigitte, Sue, De and Suzi! - that 'Visitation' painting is exactly what I was remembering in my (packed) art books. Now I can sleep nights :) liz _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 16 05:14:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAGAEedc003527 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 05:14:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAGAE1Jo014191 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 16 Nov 2004 03:14:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAGADf6x020525; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 03:13:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.67]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAGADdLN020475 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 03:13:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dannw@lycos.com) Received: from wfilter.us4.outblaze.com (wfilter.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.180]) by webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix) with QMQP id AF26A1800127 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 10:13:34 +0000 (GMT) X-OB-Received: from unknown (208.36.123.30) by wfilter.us4.outblaze.com; 16 Nov 2004 10:13:34 -0000 Received: by ws7-1.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 9E18886B0D; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 10:13:34 +0000 (GMT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from [81.144.218.66] by ws7-1.us4.outblaze.com with http for dannw@lycos.com; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 10:13:34 +0000 From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 10:13:34 +0000 Subject: Re: [h-cost] More 1661 laces continued X-Originating-Ip: 81.144.218.66 X-Originating-Server: ws7-1.us4.outblaze.com Message-Id: <20041116101334.9E18886B0D@ws7-1.us4.outblaze.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id iAGADdLN020475 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- > >>So, six pounds for enough lace for a "handkercher?" Anyone know how large > >>this item must be? > > > > Possibly what we now sometimes call a fichu, folded double and worn on the > > shoulders over the neck of the gown. The last one I made had about two > > yards of lace, possibly a bit more - I could measure if you need. > > > > Suzi > > > > I thought that was a kercher/kerchief. A Handkercher could possibly be > smaller, similar to the Handkerchief. > > Glenda. During the 16th century, hankercher (and spelling variations) do mean handkerchief, just as the kercher=kerchief. So, it is logical that they still mean something similar. I figure about a yard of lace might be a guesstimate at how much lace would be needed for a handkerchief. cheers, Danielle -- _______________________________________________ Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 16 05:31:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAGAVkVL003867 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 05:31:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAGAV3Jo015137 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 16 Nov 2004 03:31:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAGAUtQ0028177; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 03:30:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAGAUr0d028127 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 03:30:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id iAGAQkTA014170 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 05:26:46 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 05:26:46 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4199D6D9.6020906@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 05:30:49 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] More 1661 laces continued References: <20041116101334.9E18886B0D@ws7-1.us4.outblaze.com> In-Reply-To: <20041116101334.9E18886B0D@ws7-1.us4.outblaze.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Danielle Nunn-Weinberg wrote: > During the 16th century, hankercher (and spelling variations) do mean handkerchief, just as the kercher=kerchief. So, it is logical that they still mean something similar. I figure about a yard of lace might be a guesstimate at how much lace would be needed for a handkerchief. On the other hand, he says his wife was "in the handkercher" that the lace decorated. So that says she was wearing it, rather than having it about her person like we'd have a handkerchief. I'm thinking maybe a shawl or some sort of special head-drape? Something tucked in the decolletage? Somewhere the lace would be obvious. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent The Geneva Convention's limitations on treatment of enemy prisoners no longer applies to US actions. -- Alberto R. Gonzales, memo to the President. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 16 05:52:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAGAqYgU004206 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 05:52:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAGAolJo015889 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 16 Nov 2004 03:50:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAGAohsS037270; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 03:50:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web50007.mail.yahoo.com (web50007.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.22]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iAGAoeUK037183 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 03:50:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nicolas_fouquet@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 73765 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Nov 2004 10:50:34 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=n6Ct+pIXcM+AbGc8lDGnK+gqXZkB9Gf0aQHGKVCcM0v+rQ1GqFutGSJWNdSaikgtmwTPy+9+ki7S9Kxx7jlTDnhJdlbHLk69ZheO6KIXOf1mSXGWF4+n08wgGNlBB6y2cz5xn/EB0IkvdmXEixPPhU+7LuIPZG3EW94SXq2+b20= ; Message-ID: <20041116105034.73763.qmail@web50007.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.66.208.11] by web50007.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 10:50:34 GMT Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 10:50:34 +0000 (GMT) From: Marquesate Subject: Re: [h-cost] More 1661 laces continued To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <4199D6D9.6020906@thibault.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Cynthia Virtue wrote: > I'm thinking maybe a shawl or some sort of special head-drape? > Something tucked in the decolletage? Somewhere the lace would be obvious. As for headwear/neckwear, I put a page up with dozens of details from paintings of the period in question, where I more or less talked to myself while analysing the images, thus the informal language: http://www.kipar.org/baroque-costumes/costumes_female_focus.html Nicole ___________________________________________________________ Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New Wardrobe? Win £10k with Yahoo! Mail to make your dream a reality. Get Yahoo! Mail www.yahoo.co.uk/10k _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 16 06:54:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAGBs1Ht005223 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 06:54:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAGBrNJo019847 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 16 Nov 2004 04:53:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAGBrH0N071749; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 04:53:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAGBrDfM071606 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 04:53:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f22.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.34]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id DBCDD5EE056 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 12:52:59 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000601c4cbd2$dbcc0c50$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20041116101334.9E18886B0D@ws7-1.us4.outblaze.com> <4199D6D9.6020906@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] More 1661 laces continued Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 12:53:11 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Considering the expensive price of the lace you also must have in mind that lace for such a kerchief could have taken the lace maker a year or more to make, and the fine threads was very expensive. Some linen threads were so fine that they had to be handspun in caves because of the humidity. The danish lace industry at Tønder imported the fine threads from Brabant. The thread from there was very very expensive but of the finest quality. The kerchief linen also could be a very fine holland lawn wich also had many many threads wowen into it. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia Virtue" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 11:30 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] More 1661 laces continued > Danielle Nunn-Weinberg wrote: > >> During the 16th century, hankercher (and spelling variations) do mean >> handkerchief, just as the kercher=kerchief. So, it is logical that they >> still mean something similar. I figure about a yard of lace might be a >> guesstimate at how much lace would be needed for a handkerchief. > > On the other hand, he says his wife was "in the handkercher" that the lace > decorated. So that says she was wearing it, rather than having it about > her person like we'd have a handkerchief. > > I'm thinking maybe a shawl or some sort of special head-drape? Something > tucked in the decolletage? Somewhere the lace would be obvious. > > -- > Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent > > The Geneva Convention's limitations on treatment of enemy prisoners no > longer applies to US actions. -- Alberto R. Gonzales, memo to the > President. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 16 07:24:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAGCOdHq005727 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 07:24:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAGCNvJo022126 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 16 Nov 2004 05:23:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAGCNp60088209; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 05:23:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp807.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp807.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.197]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iAGCNkSf088075 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 05:23:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp807.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Nov 2004 12:23:31 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041116122052.0145fb18@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 12:23:29 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] More 1661 laces continued In-Reply-To: <20041116105034.73763.qmail@web50007.mail.yahoo.com> References: <4199D6D9.6020906@thibault.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:50 16/11/2004 +0000, you wrote: > --- Cynthia Virtue wrote: > > > I'm thinking maybe a shawl or some sort of special head-drape? > > Something tucked in the decolletage? Somewhere the lace would be obvious. > >As for headwear/neckwear, I put a page up with dozens of details from >paintings >of the period in question, where I more or less talked to myself while >analysing the images, thus the informal language: > >http://www.kipar.org/baroque-costumes/costumes_female_focus.html Many of the images on this page http://alpha.furman.edu/~kgossman/history/cavalier/images.htm show what I would call a "(hand)kerchief", particularly the lady in black with the honeysuckle embroidered petticoat,Hester Tradescant. This is what sprang to my mind with the original description from Cynthia Virtue. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 16 08:18:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAGDIsf2006423 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 08:18:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAGDIEJo024913 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 16 Nov 2004 06:18:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAGDI4c8011509; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 06:18:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk ([193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAGDHtDd011238 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 06:18:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id iAGDHI211811.; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 13:17:19 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 13:17:18 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 13:17:10 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] More 1661 laces continued Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> suzi@suziclarke.co.uk 16/11/2004 12:23:29 >>> >Many of the images on this page >http://alpha.furman.edu/~kgossman/history/cavalier/images.htm >show what I would call a "(hand)kerchief", particularly the lady in black >with the honeysuckle embroidered petticoat,Hester Tradescant. This >is what sprang to my mind with the original description from Cynthia >Virtue. I wear one similar to Hester Tradescant's, though I call mine a neckerchief. It has about 2 1/2 - 3 yards of simple lace. (PS I believe the derivation of "kerchief" is from the French "couvre-chef", a head-covering.) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 16 10:01:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAGF10ff007852 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 10:01:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAGF07Jo003728 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 16 Nov 2004 08:00:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAGExr9Y074223; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 07:59:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp802.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp802.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.139]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iAGExjKv074090 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 07:59:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp802.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Nov 2004 14:59:40 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041116145647.01460138@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 14:59:38 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] More 1661 laces continued In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 13:17 16/11/2004 +0000, you wrote: >Kate Bunting >Library, University of Derby > > >>> suzi@suziclarke.co.uk 16/11/2004 12:23:29 >>> > > >Many of the images on this page > >http://alpha.furman.edu/~kgossman/history/cavalier/images.htm >show >what I would call a "(hand)kerchief", particularly the lady in black > >with the honeysuckle embroidered petticoat,Hester Tradescant. This >is >what sprang to my mind with the original description from Cynthia > >Virtue. > >I wear one similar to Hester Tradescant's, though I call mine a >neckerchief. It has about 2 1/2 - 3 yards of simple lace. > >(PS I believe the derivation of "kerchief" is from the French >"couvre-chef", a head-covering.) I too made one based on Hester Tradescant, and mine took between 2 and 2 1/2 metres of 1 1/2 in ch wide lace. I sewed it on separately to each curve so the "right " side showed when folded. (It is modern lace and has a front and back - huh! Nearest I could find - in JoAnn's of all places in Orlando, and I live in London! Talk about a busman's holiday!) Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 16 10:05:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAGF51Ar007926 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 10:05:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAGF4OJo004110 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 16 Nov 2004 08:04:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAGF4NWt077913; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 08:04:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAGF1tR4075831 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 08:01:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.122] (pm7-122.eos.net [205.133.149.122]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id iAGEtWS4024578 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 10:01:47 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 09:56:40 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200411161321.iAGDLj86013162@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver on 205.133.149.17 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id iAGF1tR4075831 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] lace X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne wrote: > Considering the expensive price of the lace you also must have in mind that > lace for such a kerchief could have taken the lace maker a year or more to > make, and the fine threads was very expensive. Some linen threads were so > fine that they had to be handspun in caves because of the humidity. > The danish lace industry at Tønder imported the fine threads from Brabant. > The thread from there was very very expensive but of the finest quality. > The kerchief linen also could be a very fine holland lawn wich also had many > many threads wowen into it. Handspun in caves? In CAVES? Are you sure about that? That sounds like a myth, to me. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 16 10:28:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAGFSERg008335 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 10:28:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAGFRXJo006145 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 16 Nov 2004 08:27:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAGFRO1f096974; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 08:27:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAGFREvX096799 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 08:27:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f22.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.34]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 738DB47FE79 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 16:27:11 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000501c4cbf0$c02f9570$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] lace Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 16:27:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Gail, I have read this several places in books about lace. The thread is so thin, that it would have ben nescesary to have a very high humidity in the air to make it. Unless the threads would break. Dont know if the books are wrong, but i surely have read this. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gail & Scott Finke" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 3:56 PM Subject: [h-cost] lace > Bjarne wrote: > >> Considering the expensive price of the lace you also must have in mind >> that >> lace for such a kerchief could have taken the lace maker a year or more >> to >> make, and the fine threads was very expensive. Some linen threads were so >> fine that they had to be handspun in caves because of the humidity. >> The danish lace industry at Tønder imported the fine threads from >> Brabant. >> The thread from there was very very expensive but of the finest quality. >> The kerchief linen also could be a very fine holland lawn wich also had >> many >> many threads wowen into it. > > Handspun in caves? In CAVES? Are you sure about that? That sounds like a > myth, to me. > > Gail Finke > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 16 12:32:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAGHW2ns010271 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 12:32:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAGHVFJo028942 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 16 Nov 2004 10:31:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAGHUrMC007788; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 10:30:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAGHUl4r007689 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 10:30:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f22.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.34]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 5276A2628BE for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 18:30:44 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000f01c4cc02$05b95750$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000501c4cbf0$c02f9570$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] lace Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 18:30:48 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 4:27 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] lace > Dear Gail, > I have read this several places in books about lace. The thread is so > thin, that it would have ben nescesary to have a very high humidity in the > air to make it. Unless the threads would break. > Dont know if the books are wrong, but i surely have read this. I also have to add, that i have misplased this thin thread. It was not used in 17th century, what i spoke of was 18th century laces. 17.th century laces used a coarser thread than 18th century. I have just read a little about prices on laces to compare. The year 1790 the lace mechands had about 1500 lace workers each. In all there were 12000 lace workers. The wages was about 12 - 24 skilling each week. Maximum 32 skilling. In 50 weeks a year it gives an income of a year to 12,5 rigsdaler and a whole to 150.000 rigsdaler to 12000 lace workers and 25% to the thread. In 1780 the cost of a calf was 7,5 rigsdaler, a ham 80 skilling, a pound of butter 8 skilling, a pot of snaps 9 skilling wheat floor 28 skilling a pound of meat 2,5 skillinga pound of coffe 12 skilling a pound of suggar 2 skilling and tobacco 5 skilling. So they must have been starving poor souls. They started at a lace school in the age of 6 years old and they studyed there in 6 year. School started at 6 o clock and ended at 6 - 8 o clock in the evening only interrupted by eating breaks. Imagine to sit from early morning to late night over the pillow all the time and then earn nearly nothing. My sources comes from a book by Sigurd Schoubye: The lace Industry at the Tønder Area. Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 16 12:50:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAGHohIP010564 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 12:50:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAGHnhJo003422 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 16 Nov 2004 10:49:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAGHna47025572; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 10:49:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAGHnTkd025385 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 10:49:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (c-24-21-147-231.client.comcast.net [24.21.147.231]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id iAGHnKT28090 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 12:49:20 -0500 Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 09:47:32 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: Althea Turner To: Costume Historical Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <97D9D234-37F7-11D9-8582-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Byzantine skaramangion X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello, Does anyone have an image of a Byzantine skaramangion? Thanks! Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com I think, therefore I'm dangerous. I'll be Post-Feminist in a Post-Patriarchy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 16 14:24:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAGJO7KU012146 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 14:24:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAGJM2Jo014758 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 16 Nov 2004 12:22:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAGJLsvj013795; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 12:21:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [206.170.184.16]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAGJLj0w013672 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 12:21:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lists@margospatterns.com) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net15sp45.directcon.net [209.79.209.45] (may be forged)) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id iAGJNo404575 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 11:23:50 -0800 Message-ID: <000901c4e3a3$6af2fbe0$2dd14fd1@dnyeaqvf> From: To: "Historical Costume" References: <000501c4cbf0$c02f9570$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <000f01c4cc02$05b95750$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 11:14:06 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Cloak and Cape question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Can anyone tell me when cloaks and capes began to be patterned with separate front and back pieces, with seams shaped to the shoulders connecting them, rather than as full or partial circles or rectangles gathered into the neck? I'm guessing late 18th-early 19th centuries, but haven't really looked into it yet. I'd love to find evidence that it was earlier. Margo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 16 14:26:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAGJQdB5012195 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 14:26:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAGJPkJo015213 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 16 Nov 2004 12:25:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAGJPh6h017255; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 12:25:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpout.mac.com (smtpout.mac.com [17.250.248.87]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAGJP90i016776 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 12:25:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gawne@mac.com) Received: from mac.com (smtpin01-en2 [10.13.10.146]) by smtpout.mac.com (Xserve/MantshX 2.0) with ESMTP id iAGJP7eR001427 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 11:25:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from UROPORTABLE (dhcp073182.fhcrc.org [140.107.73.182]) (authenticated bits=0) by mac.com (Xserve/smtpin01/MantshX 4.0) with ESMTP id iAGJP6vH013020 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 11:25:06 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <003401c4cc11$fa9e1170$b6496b8c@UROPORTABLE> From: "Agnes Gawne" To: References: <200411161904.iAGJ4F2K097388@net.indra.com> Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 11:25:05 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] fine linen threads need moisture X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On a similar note at the Irish Linen Centre in Lisburn, Co. Antrim, Ireland (if you happen to be in the north of Ireland that museum is definitely worth a stop) they mentioned that the linen weavers would have had a bare earth floor in their cottages to keep things moist so the threads would not break - it seemed a little fantastic to me as there is hardly a place in Ireland that is not moist! They also said the huge looms would take up almost the entire cottage but that the weavers were proud of that and did not attempt to house the loom anywhere other than the main rooms of the cottage. I didn't get any literature or references on this but it definitely ties in with Bjarne's statements about keeping the linen threads stronger with moisture. > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 09:56:40 -0500 > Bjarne wrote: > . Some linen threads were so > > fine that they had to be handspun in caves because of the humidity. > > Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 16:27:09 +0100 > From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" > I have read this several places in books about lace. The thread is so thin, > that it would have ben nescesary to have a very high humidity in the air to > make it. Unless the threads would break. > > > End of h-costume Digest, Vol 3, Issue 903 > ***************************************** > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 16 15:11:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAGKBrSp012939 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 15:11:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAGKArJo020571 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 16 Nov 2004 13:10:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAGKAnmC057809; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 13:10:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantvc.canterbury.ac.nz (cantvc.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAGKAF4N057347 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 13:10:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LHC3EOL3A8GPWPY3@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 09:10:12 +1300 (NEW ZEALAND DAYLIGHT TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTPA id <01LHC3ENQBMKGOL32W@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 09:10:11 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 09:10:12 +1300 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] More 1661 laces continued In-reply-to: <4199D6D9.6020906@thibault.org> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <419A5EA4.2070005@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <20041116101334.9E18886B0D@ws7-1.us4.outblaze.com> <4199D6D9.6020906@thibault.org> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Danielle Nunn-Weinberg wrote: > >> During the 16th century, hankercher (and spelling variations) do mean >> handkerchief, just as the kercher=kerchief. So, it is logical that >> they still mean something similar. I figure about a yard of lace >> might be a guesstimate at how much lace would be needed for a >> handkerchief. > > > On the other hand, he says his wife was "in the handkercher" that the > lace decorated. So that says she was wearing it, rather than having > it about her person like we'd have a handkerchief. > > I'm thinking maybe a shawl or some sort of special head-drape? > Something tucked in the decolletage? Somewhere the lace would be > obvious. > I believe what he's talking about is the large, square, lace-trimmed piece of fabric that some women wore in place of a partlet around this time. There are a number of examples shown on this page http://alpha.furman.edu/~kgossman/history/cavalier/images.htm. I guess it would take 2 yards or so of lace to trim such a thing. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 16 15:32:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAGKWLkl013304 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 15:32:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAGKVXJo023114 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 16 Nov 2004 13:31:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAGKVL11075855; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 13:31:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm43.prodigy.net (ylpvm43-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.74]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAGKVJG5075818 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 13:31:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-75-105.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.75.105]) by ylpvm43.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAGKVIJF014724 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 15:31:21 -0500 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20041116122702.03221888@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 12:27:39 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cloak and Cape question In-Reply-To: <000901c4e3a3$6af2fbe0$2dd14fd1@dnyeaqvf> References: <000501c4cbf0$c02f9570$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <000f01c4cc02$05b95750$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Can anyone tell me when cloaks and capes began to be patterned with separate >front and back pieces, with seams shaped to the shoulders connecting them, >rather than as full or partial circles or rectangles gathered into the neck? >I'm guessing late 18th-early 19th centuries, but haven't really looked into >it yet. I'd love to find evidence that it was earlier. Look at the cut of the ones in Janet Arnold? CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 16 19:04:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAH04149017750 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 19:04:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAH039Jo019342 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 16 Nov 2004 17:03:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAH02tbt004369; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 17:02:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.141]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iAH02m37003136 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 17:02:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Nov 2004 00:02:42 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041116235448.014603a8@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 00:02:41 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cloak and Cape question In-Reply-To: <000901c4e3a3$6af2fbe0$2dd14fd1@dnyeaqvf> References: <000501c4cbf0$c02f9570$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <000f01c4cc02$05b95750$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:14 16/12/2004 -0800, you wrote: >Can anyone tell me when cloaks and capes began to be patterned with separate >front and back pieces, with seams shaped to the shoulders connecting them, >rather than as full or partial circles or rectangles gathered into the neck? >I'm guessing late 18th-early 19th centuries, but haven't really looked into >it yet. I'd love to find evidence that it was earlier. Jean Hunnisett, in "Period Costume for Stage and Screen Outer Garments Book 1 Cloaks, Capes etc" (love the snappy title!!) patterns a French Provincial cloak dated c 1780-90 which has a separate front and back piece. There is a similar cloak in Los Angeles County Museum ("An Elegant Art" - exhibition) and also in Kyoto - see "Fashion". I think she did not find earlier cloaks of this type. I think the cloaks in Janet Arnold, and in Alcega are pieced rather than in two distinct pattern pieces. There are Red Riding Hood type cloaks in Manchester at Platt Hall, the Museum of London, and I believe at Colonial Williamsburg, but I think they are the part of a circle, shaped at the neck type. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 16 21:07:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAH27Fto019491 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 21:07:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAH26EJo029384 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 16 Nov 2004 19:06:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAH263Ym029492; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 19:06:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta203-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta203-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.146]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAH261QC029427 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 19:06:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from pop1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.186]) by mta203-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20041117020554.GVDZ21916.mta203-rme.xtra.co.nz@pop1-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:05:54 +1300 Received: from michaela ([222.152.201.54]) by pop1-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20041117020553.TSKU16957.pop1-rme.xtra.co.nz@michaela> for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:05:53 +1300 Message-ID: <000d01c4cc49$f87d80f0$0301010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 14:44:48 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Fw: Latest gown, 1560s Spanish X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Well this is the gown I was dyeing materials for that I just mentioned in a > reply to the dye thread: > > http://costumes.glittersweet.com/sca/valois.htm > > A very very hard learning curve for most of it, now that I've mostly > finished the gown (aka the "I've been eaten alive and only my head is > showing" gown) I'm quite happy and content to pursue further late 16thC > garb. > > And the problems with the undergarments (the verdugados is refered to the > verdu-poop-os for a reason...) have just taught me to follow my gut > instincts more. > > And yay, now to get the documentation uploaded;) > > michaela > http://costumes.glittersweet.com > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 16 21:10:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAH2A4uK019524 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 21:10:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAH29NJo029600 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 16 Nov 2004 19:09:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAH29N4s031501; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 19:09:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta205-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta205-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.187]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAH27eiO030334 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 19:07:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.186]) by mta205-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20041117020734.RBIW18126.mta205-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:07:34 +1300 Received: from michaela ([222.152.201.54]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20041117020733.OSZR56.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@michaela> for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:07:33 +1300 Message-ID: <001a01c4cc4a$33d59ca0$0301010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:07:33 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Latest gown, 1560s Spanish X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO One last try..... > Well this is the gown I was dyeing materials for that I just mentioned in a > reply to the dye thread: > > http://costumes.glittersweet.com/sca/valois.htm > > A very very hard learning curve for most of it, now that I've mostly > finished the gown (aka the "I've been eaten alive and only my head is > showing" gown) I'm quite happy and content to pursue further late 16thC > garb. > > And the problems with the undergarments (the verdugados is refered to the > verdu-poop-os for a reason...) have just taught me to follow my gut > instincts more. > > And yay, now to get the documentation uploaded;) > > michaela > http://costumes.glittersweet.com > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 16 21:12:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAH2CgCP019571 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 21:12:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAH2C1Jo029940 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 16 Nov 2004 19:12:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAH2BwtP033498; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 19:11:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta203-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta203-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.146]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAH2BsaA033407 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 19:11:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.141]) by mta203-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20041117021149.HAHI21916.mta203-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:11:49 +1300 Received: from michaela ([222.152.201.54]) by mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20041117021148.JHQZ13668.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@michaela> for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:11:48 +1300 Message-ID: <002801c4cc4a$cc13c370$0301010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: Subject: Fw: [h-cost] OT-Dye help Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:11:49 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Finally getting mail through! > > Diluted dark dyes will dye light quite nicely, but a couple of tips: 1) be > > SURE to get the fabric soaking wet in plain water before you put it in the > > dye bath (or in salt water, if it's the sort of fabric that takes a while > to > > get really wet and if salt is part of the dye recipe, like with RIT) and > 2) > > be sure that the dye bath is very diluted and is completely mixed (no > powder > > residue anywhere in it). > Absolutely:) > > I recently had "fun" dyeing some grey "double organza" purple, and in the > process nearly ruined what I needed, but got a lovely pale lilac/lavender > shade for the rest of the silk simply by dipping the fabric swirling it > around and taking it out within about 40seconds. I repeated the process and > only managed a tiny step darker, which was fine as I really didn't want the > fabric to be too dark;) > > Oh and I eventually got a resonably even dark purple (it was a cold dye > hense all the issues, I couldn't continually move the fabric around) by > making up the same amount of dry dye into 1/20 the amount of water normally > used and then painting it on the fabric. > > I really should post the whole ensemble to the list as I have shown it > elsewhere;) > > michaela de bruce > http://costumes.glittersweet.com > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 16 21:19:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAH2J8D5019649 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 21:19:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAH2IJJo000558 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 16 Nov 2004 19:18:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAH2IEQn037230; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 19:18:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAH2Hqsp037053 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 19:18:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECF8E117B3 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 18:17:50 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041116150119.02502210@64.87.54.245> X-Sender: kimiko@64.87.54.245 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 18:17:47 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cloak and Cape question In-Reply-To: <000901c4e3a3$6af2fbe0$2dd14fd1@dnyeaqvf> References: <000501c4cbf0$c02f9570$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <000f01c4cc02$05b95750$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:14 AM 12/16/2004 -0800, you wrote: >Can anyone tell me when cloaks and capes began to be patterned with separate >front and back pieces, with seams shaped to the shoulders connecting them, >rather than as full or partial circles or rectangles gathered into the neck? >I'm guessing late 18th-early 19th centuries, but haven't really looked into >it yet. I'd love to find evidence that it was earlier. > >Margo Hi Margo, I think it all depends on what you define as a cloak or cape. If you mean as an overgarment in general, possibly yes. I have found in Alcega's Pattern Book (1589) an article of clothing that is worn over a "chapter mantle for Knight Commanders of the Order or St. John", which is called "St. John's skin" or "camel skin". As an overgarment it is rectangular, has no collar but is bound at the neck with a narrow band, and has definite shoulder seams, and very long, tapering over 'sleeves' that hang, but are not full sleeves sewn together types. The spanish surcoats have definite shoulder seams, but they also may have sleeves, and hence aren't very cloak-like If you don't mean as a general overgarment, than it appears not during the 16th century, at least not in this book, as the definite "cloaks" listed are all circular, with seams up the back side, and left open down the center front. And while my Arnold book is still MIA somewhere in this house, I recall the garments there are circular in shape. I really have to get cracking on re-organizing my place now that faires are over, and find that book. Kimiko Small Owner ~ DreamTime Studios http://www.dreamtime-studios.com Fresno, CA, USA "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 16 22:00:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAH30sMU020160 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 22:00:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAH30IJo003732 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 16 Nov 2004 20:00:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAH30Dvo062869; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 20:00:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm15.prodigy.net (ylpvm15-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.46]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAH30Apk062811 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 20:00:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-67-121.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.67.121]) by ylpvm15.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAH307dm017847 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 22:00:07 -0500 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20041116181834.026aa2f8@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 18:19:25 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] fine linen threads need moisture In-Reply-To: <003401c4cc11$fa9e1170$b6496b8c@UROPORTABLE> References: <200411161904.iAGJ4F2K097388@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >they mentioned that the linen weavers would have had a bare earth >floor in their cottages to keep things moist so the threads would not >break - it seemed a little fantastic to me as there is hardly a place in >Ireland that is not moist! And many cottages not belonging to any kind of weavers also had dirt floors. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 16 22:18:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAH3IGbS020347 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 22:18:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAH3HWJo004859 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 16 Nov 2004 20:17:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAH3HH4C072917; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 20:17:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.60]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAH3HF7X072898 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 20:17:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from matchlck@erols.com) Received: from 66-44-0-57.s57.apx1.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com ([66.44.0.57] helo=erols.com) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #7) id 1CUGJl-0005tY-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 22:17:14 -0500 Message-ID: <419AC2B4.4040900@erols.com> Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 22:17:08 -0500 From: "David S. Mallinak" Organization: Red Dragon Bridge Enterprises, Ltd. User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 (emach0202) X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT-Dye help References: <003a01c4c5a7$3cd30850$6401a8c0@Lillesoster> <1247.24.4.69.40.1100497019.squirrel@24.4.69.40> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Diana Habra wrote: > So does anyone out there know where I can get a fabric dye that will make > something sage green and won't fade that quickly? If you will like to stick with Rit try there Rit Color Chart. http://www.ritdye.com/color_recipes.asp For Sage Green: 1 pkg Pearl Grey + 1 Tbsp Sea Foam Green Your humble and obediant servant, David S Mallinak _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 16 23:51:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAH4pNII021351 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 23:51:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAH4ofJo013050 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 16 Nov 2004 21:50:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAH4oVVY028145; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 21:50:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web51409.mail.yahoo.com (web51409.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.188]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iAH4oTr5028070 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 21:50:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ivycircle@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 59013 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Nov 2004 04:50:23 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=Vcjv3lBU4kCeGGSqjQZXgHVTSup7uuMNYRlwaIgvuQnSi3uazdz4M9SnZGWvjsKvqmwXGbc5m4/IJV84wbZ03mK8ueD9otbSWcXRiVSZT61XUaII844gg2XvddlBXkPRPAH0cJacvwcKwYmey3DlwPbEWS1XI4/PC0tTeimZdtc= ; Message-ID: <20041117045023.59011.qmail@web51409.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.240.36.30] by web51409.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 20:50:23 PST Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 20:50:23 -0800 (PST) From: ~Angelique To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200411161904.iAGJ4F2K097388@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Linen thread/ lace X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In Bjarne's defense when you weave linen thread into cloth you must keep it damp, either via spray bottle or laying a damp towel on it. If not, it will spring out every where, nearly trying to "crawl" off the loom! Angelique --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! – Get yours free! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 17 01:38:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAH6cavo022294 for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 01:38:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAH6c1Jo018855 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 16 Nov 2004 23:38:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAH6bV97084924; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 23:37:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAH6ane8084551 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 23:36:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA09148 for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 01:47:13 -0600 Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 01:47:12 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Anyone know about this book? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Plucked, Shaved & Braided: Medieval and Renaissance Beauty and Grooming Practices 1000-1600 by Daniela Turudich, Laurie J. Welch It's from Streamline Press, supposedly out next month, but Amazon is treating it like it's already out, available in 4-6 weeks. Amazon is also adding a surcharge because it's obscure: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/193006408X/102-4662449-5096938 I found it on a web search at lots of other sales sites. However, they're all saying it came out in Feb 2004, and I think that was an earlier release date (but was not met). (In fact, it was originally promised in June 2003, IIRC.) Assuming it exists, or is about to, I'd like to know if it's anything close to a scholarly book. The description on the Amazon page makes it sound awfully fluffy and popularized. Also, the first author has a long record of books on 20th c. vintage fashions, not the credentials I'd look for in a solid book about medieval/renaissance customs. However, the second author is billed as "an expert in the life and culture of medieval and Renaissance Europe." That could mean anything, of course. I suspect it may be simply a lot of repetition of half-truths and urban legends from secondary sources, but I don't want to write it off if it's genuinely well done. I've tried searching on Streamline Press, without success. It's possible they don't have a website, of course. Does anyone (maybe Fran or Janet) know anything about the publisher? I might want to order a review copy if I can find out whether this is a book of scholarly interest. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 17 03:04:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAH84YkX011596 for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 03:04:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAH83nJo022782 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 17 Nov 2004 01:03:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAH83gMn029813; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 01:03:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from astro.systems.pipex.net (astro.systems.pipex.net [62.241.163.6]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAH83cco029599 for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 01:03:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from linda.walton@dsl.pipex.com) Received: from bella (81-86-114-151.dsl.pipex.com [81.86.114.151]) by astro.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 27FACE000049 for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 08:03:22 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <009501c4cc7b$ee1f7820$97725651@bella> From: "Linda Walton" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200411161904.iAGJ4F2K097388@net.indra.com> <003401c4cc11$fa9e1170$b6496b8c@UROPORTABLE> Subject: Re: [h-cost] fine linen threads need moisture Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 08:03:31 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > (snip) they mentioned that the linen weavers would have had a bare earth > floor in their cottages to keep things moist so the threads would not > break (snip) They kept the floors unpaved because they would pour water on the earth floor - to maintain the moist atmosphere necessary for weaving fine linen. Linda Walton, (in High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, U.K.). _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 17 03:49:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAH8nbKf017264 for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 03:49:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAH8mgJo029243 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 17 Nov 2004 01:48:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAH8maDe052855; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 01:48:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.142]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iAH8mSSl052748 for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 01:48:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Nov 2004 08:48:23 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041117084305.014604d8@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 08:48:21 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Anyone know about this book? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 01:47 17/11/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Plucked, Shaved & Braided: Medieval and Renaissance Beauty and Grooming >Practices 1000-1600 >by Daniela Turudich, Laurie J. Welch > >It's from Streamline Press, supposedly out next month, but Amazon is >treating it like it's already out, available in 4-6 weeks. Amazon is also >adding a surcharge because it's obscure: >http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/193006408X/102-4662449-5096938 I don't know anything about this book, but Amazon is also taking pre-orders for a book by a lady here, which may be of interest. I quote her own description of it. "'The Artifice of Beauty, a history and practical guide to perfumes and cosmetics' and it attempts to trace the evolution of cosmetic adornment from prehistory to the twentieth century, by time period so its really useful for re-enactors, with lots of illustrative archaeological examples and pictures and absolutely tons of primary references. Plus, the second part of the book goes into detail about ingredients both from a historical perspective but also from the point of view of a modern person wanting to recreate the smell or effect of an early cosmetic but who may have problems with either sourcing the original or with safety details. A number of key recipes are modernised to allow safe experimentation with historic cosmetics. Its intended as both a reference book but also a manual of cosmetics and perfumes that can be made and used by re-enactors as well as a nice shiny well illustrated book for those with a general interest. I hope it will be particularly useful for those who specialise in costume and appearance and need good solid info on just what cosmetics and perfumes were worn and details of what they felt like or smelt like." Her name is Sally Pointer. She has a web site for anyone who is interested. www.sallypointer.com Suzi (BTW I am not related, nor do I get commission, but I have one or two of her costume leaflets, and I think she knows her stuff!) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 17 05:55:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAHAtGnF019691 for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 05:55:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAHAsfJo012189 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 17 Nov 2004 03:54:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAHAsKGv019140; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 03:54:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAHAsGTn019084 for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 03:54:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fc7.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.199]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id D84ED47FED5 for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 11:54:13 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000901c4cc93$cde2fb00$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001a01c4cc4a$33d59ca0$0301010a@michaela> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Latest gown, 1560s Spanish Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 11:54:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Michaela, What a wonderfull gown you have made here. Whauw such lovely look. Congratulations, and thanks for sharing......... Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "michaela" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 3:07 AM Subject: [h-cost] Latest gown, 1560s Spanish > One last try..... > > >> Well this is the gown I was dyeing materials for that I just mentioned in > a >> reply to the dye thread: >> >> http://costumes.glittersweet.com/sca/valois.htm >> >> A very very hard learning curve for most of it, now that I've mostly >> finished the gown (aka the "I've been eaten alive and only my head is >> showing" gown) I'm quite happy and content to pursue further late 16thC >> garb. >> >> And the problems with the undergarments (the verdugados is refered to the >> verdu-poop-os for a reason...) have just taught me to follow my gut >> instincts more. >> >> And yay, now to get the documentation uploaded;) >> >> michaela >> http://costumes.glittersweet.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 17 06:28:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAHBSa1O020013 for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 06:28:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAHBRxJo013429 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 17 Nov 2004 04:28:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAHBRuEo036943; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 04:27:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net (smtp2.suscom.net [64.78.83.231]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAHBRrlm036856 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 04:27:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (smtp2.suscom.net [127.0.0.1]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E49F91CDD91 for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 06:21:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp2 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 02549-09 for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 06:20:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip194.182.235.64.susc.suscom.net [64.235.182.194]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 274571CDE63 for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 06:18:43 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <019601c4cc98$1f959ad0$c2b6eb40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000d01c4cc49$f87d80f0$0301010a@michaela> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fw: Latest gown, 1560s Spanish Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 06:25:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "michaela" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 8:44 PM Subject: [h-cost] Fw: Latest gown, 1560s Spanish > > >> Well this is the gown I was dyeing materials for that I just mentioned in > a >> reply to the dye thread: >> >> http://costumes.glittersweet.com/sca/valois.htm >> >> A very very hard learning curve for most of it, now that I've mostly >> finished the gown (aka the "I've been eaten alive and only my head is >> showing" gown) I'm quite happy and content to pursue further late 16thC >> garb. It's exquisite, Michaela! Wow! Dianne >> >> And the problems with the _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 17 11:33:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAHGXVTk023276 for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 11:33:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAHGWYJo004538 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 17 Nov 2004 09:32:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAHGWOCm041368; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 09:32:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m14.mx.aol.com (imo-m14.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAHGWLEl041252 for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 09:32:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Kitsune242@aol.com) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.1a4.2b499d1f (15901) for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 11:32:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from aol.com (mow-d26.webmail.aol.com [205.188.139.167]) by air-id09.mx.aol.com (v103.7) with ESMTP id MAILINID94-3e1d419b7d0a13d; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 11:32:10 -0500 Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 11:32:10 -0500 From: Kitsune242@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Anyone know about this book? MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <5F3F4E0F.53B1204D.0BD9917F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 169.237.109.158 X-AOL-Language: english Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I ordered this book over two years ago, they kept changing the release date on me, and in the end, cancelled my order. I have tried contacting the publisher, but have never received a response. I hope someone has better luck, than I did, I just don't have time to do all the follow up that seemed to be required to get a copy. Kit >At 01:47 17/11/2004 -0600, you wrote: > >Plucked, Shaved & Braided: Medieval and Renaissance Beauty and Grooming >>Practices 1000-1600 by Daniela Turudich, Laurie J. Welch >> >>It's from Streamline Press, supposedly out next month, but Amazon is >>treating it like it's already out, available in 4-6 weeks.  Amazon is also >>adding a surcharge because it's obscure: >>http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/193006408X/102-4662449-5096938 > -- Kit If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - Kenneth Cole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 17 11:53:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAHGrjuw023566 for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 11:53:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAHGqZJo006685 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 17 Nov 2004 09:52:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAHGqUnu059393; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 09:52:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omta18.mta.everyone.net (sitemail2.everyone.net [216.200.145.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAHGqHBP059243 for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 09:52:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from generys@blazemail.com) Received: from pmta01.mta.everyone.net (unknown [216.200.145.26]) by omta18.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DBBC401BC for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 08:52:16 -0800 (PST) X-Eon-Sig: AQBKBEVBm4HARjBrVAIAAAAB,f078af9c3833c0b6f163d3fe364d6ade Received: from marketing3 (69.38.51.209 [69.38.51.209]) by pmta01.mta.everyone.net (EON-AUTHRELAY) with ESMTP id 45A1829C for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 08:52:16 -0800 From: "Jennifer / Guenievre" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Anyone know about this book? Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 11:56:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-Index: AcTMw9D6TUQZdNjETXqDXLZvTJz1hQAAjUWw In-reply-to: <5F3F4E0F.53B1204D.0BD9917F@aol.com> Message-Id: <20041117165216.6DBBC401BC@omta18.mta.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id iAHGqHBP059243 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I contacted Streamline about this book a few months ago, this is the response I got. Things may have changed since then. > Hello Jennifer, > > Unfortunately, the news on all Streamline titles is not good. > Streamline has declared all in-print titles out of print (after > lengthy delays in reprint); all forthcoming titles, including this > one, have been cancelled after repeated delays in their print > schedules. "Plucked, Shaved, & Braided" does not exist in book form. > > This news is still relatively new to us, so we have not yet updated > our website. We hope to have accurate listings soon. > > Let me know if you have any other questions, Robin Independent > Publishers Group > 814 North Franklin Street > Chicago, Illinois 60610 > 800.888.4741 -ph > 312.337.5985 -fx > www.ipgbook.com > Guenievre > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On > Behalf Of Kitsune242@aol.com > Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 11:32 AM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Anyone know about this book? > > I ordered this book over two years ago, they kept changing the release > date on me, and in the end, cancelled my order. I have tried contacting > the publisher, but have never received a response. I hope someone has > better luck, than I did, I just don't have time to do all the follow up > that seemed to be required to get a copy. > > Kit > > >At 01:47 17/11/2004 -0600, you wrote: > > > >Plucked, Shaved & Braided: Medieval and Renaissance Beauty and Grooming > >>Practices 1000-1600 by Daniela Turudich, Laurie J. Welch > >> > >>It's from Streamline Press, supposedly out next month, but Amazon is > >>treating it like it's already out, available in 4-6 weeks.  Amazon is > also > >>adding a surcharge because it's obscure: > >>http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/193006408X/102-4662449- > 5096938 > > > > -- > Kit > If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - > Kenneth Cole > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 17 13:36:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAHIaGnB024867 for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 13:36:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAHIZDJo018396 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 17 Nov 2004 11:35:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAHIZ3H1052816; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 11:35:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAHIYxxh052730 for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 11:34:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA13920 for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 13:45:24 -0600 Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 13:45:22 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Anyone know about this book? In-Reply-To: <5F3F4E0F.53B1204D.0BD9917F@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 Kitsune242@aol.com wrote: > I ordered this book over two years ago, they kept changing the release > date on me, and in the end, cancelled my order. I have tried > contacting the publisher, but have never received a response. I hope > someone has better luck, than I did, I just don't have time to do all > the follow up that seemed to be required to get a copy. Hmm. I did find a website for Streamline Press on Google, but it wasn't there when I went. Your experience suggests that they've just folded. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 17 14:09:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAHJ9xe5025377 for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 14:09:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAHJ98Jo022515 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 17 Nov 2004 12:09:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAHJ94S8082803; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 12:09:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay7-dav26.bay7.hotmail.com [64.4.11.26]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAHJ376D077561 for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 12:03:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bear_janet@msn.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 11:03:01 -0800 Received: from 4.10.33.98 by BAY7-DAV26.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 19:02:16 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [4.10.33.98] X-Originating-Email: [bear_janet@msn.com] X-Sender: bear_janet@msn.com From: "JAMES OGILVIE" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Anyone know about this book? Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 14:02:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 8.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V8.50.0017.1202 Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 14:02:21 -0500 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Nov 2004 19:03:01.0010 (UTC) FILETIME=[0F036720:01C4CCD8] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id iAHJ9xe5025377 Status: RO Plucked, Shaved & Braided: Medieval and Renaissance Beauty and Grooming Practices 1000-1600 by Daniela Turudich, Laurie J. Welch I've been ordering this through my wholesale distributor for months now and and they put it on backorder and eventually tell me that it's not yet published. If it ever gets published, I will carry it (without surcharge). Janet Janet Davis Castle Furnishings www.medievalbookstore.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 17 15:09:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAHK9Iuj026200 for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:09:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAHK8GJo029005 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 17 Nov 2004 13:08:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAHK7xo5034362; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 13:08:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from gold.wightman.ca (gold.wightman.ca [216.249.0.4]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAHK7sHu034189 for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 13:07:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lgsteph@wightman.ca) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by gold.wightman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7537C4779B for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:07:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from d7k7b6 (unknown [142.46.141.52]) by gold.wightman.ca (Postfix) with SMTP id 1D3264778E for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:06:58 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001501c4cce0$e2323ba0$6400a8c0@wightman.ca> From: "Five Rivers" To: Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:05:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] revised Laughing Moon pattern X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just thought I'd let people know the new and improved revised Laughing Moon Ladies Victorian Corset Cover, petticoat and bustle pattern is now available. Looks like yet another fabulous pattern, historically accurate, great size range, fabulous engineering and sewing instructions that are superb. You can view the pattern at: http://www.5rivers.org/en-gb/p_905.html Regards Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage fine hand-sewn embroidered garments, historical sewing patterns & embroidery supplies (519) 799-5577, http://www.5rivers.org email: info@5rivers.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 17 15:43:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAHKhsoQ026543 for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:43:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAHKgsJo002718 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 17 Nov 2004 13:42:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAHKgm1G065433; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 13:42:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from chori.chori.org (chori.chori.org [209.77.137.59]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAHKgj2h065314 for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 13:42:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ldownward@chori.org) Received: from [172.19.9.241] ([172.19.9.241] verified) by chori.chori.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP-TLS id 1979283 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 17 Nov 2004 12:42:39 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.0.0.040405 Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 12:42:39 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] revised Laughing Moon pattern From: Lynn Downward To: h costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <001501c4cce0$e2323ba0$6400a8c0@wightman.ca> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/588/Sun Nov 14 17:06:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO So how is it different from the original pattern Laughing Moon produced? I have used and love the Laughing Moon Mercantile Co. patterns. I'm working on the men's vest now and plan to start the men's frock coat early in the new year - after all the Victorian and German stuff is done. LynnD > From: Five Rivers > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:05:37 -0500 > To: > Subject: [h-cost] revised Laughing Moon pattern > > Just thought I'd let people know the new and improved revised Laughing > Moon Ladies Victorian Corset Cover, petticoat and bustle pattern is now > available. Looks like yet another fabulous pattern, historically accurate, > great size range, fabulous engineering and sewing instructions that are > superb. > > You can view the pattern at: http://www.5rivers.org/en-gb/p_905.html > > Regards > Lorina > Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage > fine hand-sewn embroidered garments, historical sewing patterns & embroidery > supplies > (519) 799-5577, http://www.5rivers.org email: info@5rivers.org > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 18 17:54:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAIMsLnp002158 for ; Thu, 18 Nov 2004 17:54:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAIMrPJo025157 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 18 Nov 2004 15:53:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAIMrDto056392; Thu, 18 Nov 2004 15:53:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tin.wightman.ca (tin.wightman.ca [216.249.0.6]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAIMr8IC056202 for ; Thu, 18 Nov 2004 15:53:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lgsteph@wightman.ca) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by tin.wightman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id E93653398E for ; Thu, 18 Nov 2004 17:52:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from d7k7b6 (unknown [142.46.141.52]) by tin.wightman.ca (Postfix) with SMTP id 1BD5633989 for ; Thu, 18 Nov 2004 17:52:56 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <004701c4cdc1$3c336580$6400a8c0@wightman.ca> From: "Five Rivers" To: References: <200411181904.iAIJ3xm6066640@net.indra.com> Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 17:51:32 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/591/Thu Nov 18 08:38:04 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/591/Thu Nov 18 08:38:04 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: revised Laughing Moon pattern X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > So how is it different from the original pattern Laughing Moon produced? Deb Peterson has added a corset cover to the pattern, reworked and improved the engineering on the bustle, and created three lengths for the petticoat. I'd love to launch into the men's vest and frock coat for Gary, for the demonstrations we're often hired to do. Somewhere I'm determined to find the time to do this. Let me know how yours turns out. Regards Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage fine hand-sewn embroidered garments, historical sewing patterns & embroidery supplies (519) 799-5577, http://www.5rivers.org email: info@5rivers.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 18 22:41:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAJ3fpfv003882 for ; Thu, 18 Nov 2004 22:41:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAJ3f3Jo016858 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 18 Nov 2004 20:41:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAJ3eo4r035218; Thu, 18 Nov 2004 20:40:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web50601.mail.yahoo.com (web50601.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.88]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iAJ3el10035000 for ; Thu, 18 Nov 2004 20:40:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 99919 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Nov 2004 03:40:42 -0000 Message-ID: <20041119034041.99910.qmail@web50601.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.198.54.41] by web50601.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 18 Nov 2004 22:40:41 EST Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 22:40:41 -0500 (EST) From: Kathy Page To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200411151901.iAFJ1mah039011@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/591/Thu Nov 18 08:38:04 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/591/Thu Nov 18 08:38:04 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re:Mask making and history X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You're most welcome, Bjarne. Sorry I haven't gotten back to you sooner - I am frantically praparing my documentation for competition this Saturday. If you have any questions, as of Monday, I'll have loads of time to answer them. :-) Kathy > Dear Kathy, > A million thanks for your fine site. It will be a > great resource and > inspiration for me. > This was a generous gesture............. > > Bjarne ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 18 22:45:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAJ3jZDN003898 for ; Thu, 18 Nov 2004 22:45:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAJ3iiJo017070 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 18 Nov 2004 20:44:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAJ3iiQ6037345; Thu, 18 Nov 2004 20:44:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web50609.mail.yahoo.com (web50609.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.248]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iAJ3giYe036205 for ; Thu, 18 Nov 2004 20:42:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 14662 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Nov 2004 03:42:39 -0000 Message-ID: <20041119034238.14649.qmail@web50609.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.198.54.41] by web50609.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 18 Nov 2004 22:42:38 EST Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 22:42:38 -0500 (EST) From: Kathy Page To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200410211801.i9LI16Zq007097@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/591/Thu Nov 18 08:38:04 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/591/Thu Nov 18 08:38:04 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re:Mystery Fabric X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO sorry I haven't had the time to thank everyone that offered advice on that voided velvet I bought. Your help was most appreciated. Now... I just have to figure out what to make with it.... ;-) Kathy ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 18 23:08:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAJ48mQ3004038 for ; Thu, 18 Nov 2004 23:08:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAJ47xJo018433 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 18 Nov 2004 21:07:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAJ47sjv050033; Thu, 18 Nov 2004 21:07:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAJ47qEJ049963 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 18 Nov 2004 21:07:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iAJ5BaWQ031441 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 00:11:37 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 23:23:28 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200411182323.28118.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/591/Thu Nov 18 08:38:04 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/591/Thu Nov 18 08:38:04 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Question about Jewellery Vendor X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Does anyone on the list know whether Peter James, who put up a website selling reproduction Viking and Saxon jewelry, is still selling such items? I've visited the web site and tried to contact him at the email address listed there, only to get a "no-such user" type error message. Any information (including a response that he no longer sells reproduction jewelry) would be much appreciated. Thanks! -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 19 01:18:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAJ6IdkD004550 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 01:18:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAJ6HsJo026595 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 18 Nov 2004 23:17:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAJ6Hldo017951; Thu, 18 Nov 2004 23:17:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.mc.surewest.net (smtp1.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.50]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iAJ6HiSp017898 for ; Thu, 18 Nov 2004 23:17:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from unicorn@surewest.net) Received: (s3-20831); Thu, 18 Nov 2004 22:13:37 -0800 Received: from unknown (HELO Cyhiraeth) (69.4.130.105) by smtp1.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Thu, 18 Nov 2004 22:13:37 -0800 Message-ID: <004c01c4cdff$7b16c1a0$6601a8c0@Cyhiraeth> From: "Joan Broneske" To: Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 22:17:43 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-TST: smtp1 SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=69.4.130.105 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/591/Thu Nov 18 08:38:04 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/591/Thu Nov 18 08:38:04 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Regency era boy's skeleton suit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Does anyone know where I could find some good pictures of boys' skeleton suits from the Regency era online? . /' // . // |\//7 /' " \ . . . | ( \ '._ | '._ ' '. ' / \'-'_---. ) ) . :.' | \ | . . . . ' . | | | \^ /_-': / / | | '\ .' / /| | \\ | \ \( ) // / \ | | // / L! ! // / Joan Broneske [_] L[_| unicorn@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 19 12:23:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAJHNqna002701 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:23:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAJHL1Ka018537 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 19 Nov 2004 10:23:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAJHJ7OQ017799; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 10:19:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts22.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.184]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAJHJ3uV017662 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 10:19:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dluckham@sympatico.ca) Received: from Main.sympatico.ca ([69.156.7.33]) by tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with ESMTP id <20041119171857.KCAO1919.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@Main.sympatico.ca> for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:18:57 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20041119121804.00cb9410@pop8.sympatico.ca> X-Sender: b1jerw63@pop8.sympatico.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:18:35 -0500 To: h-costume@net.indra.com From: Dawn Luckham Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Boys Skeleton suit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This site has some amazing images. The skeleton suit shown is a little later that the Regency era. There is a lovely painting showing the "tunic style of boys transitional clothing: http://dept.kent.edu/museum/exhibit/kids/kids.html There is a book entitled "Children's Clothes" by Clair Rose, published by Drama Book Publishers in 1989, which has some very helpful information and images. There is also a wonderful image by Ingres "Portrait de Femme" of a mother and son. The boy is wearing just what you are looking for. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 19 13:31:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAJIVWdv003408 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 13:31:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAJIUeJo026963 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 19 Nov 2004 11:30:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAJIUVuo082192; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 11:30:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.mc.surewest.net (smtp1.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.50]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iAJIU3E7081765 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 11:30:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from unicorn@surewest.net) Received: (s3-25892); Fri, 19 Nov 2004 10:25:48 -0800 Received: from unknown (HELO Cyhiraeth) (69.4.130.105) by smtp1.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 10:25:47 -0800 Message-ID: <003801c4ce65$c1e007c0$6601a8c0@Cyhiraeth> From: "Joan Broneske" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.1.6.2.20041119121804.00cb9410@pop8.sympatico.ca> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boys Skeleton suit Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 10:29:50 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-TST: smtp1 SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=69.4.130.105 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks! . /' // . // |\//7 /' " \ . . . | ( \ '._ | '._ ' '. ' / \'-'_---. ) ) . :.' | \ | . . . . ' . | | | \^ /_-': / / | | '\ .' / /| | \\ | \ \( ) // / \ | | // / L! ! // / Joan Broneske [_] L[_| unicorn@surewest.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn Luckham" To: Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 9:18 AM Subject: [h-cost] Boys Skeleton suit > This site has some amazing images. The skeleton suit shown is a little > later that the Regency era. There is a lovely painting showing the "tunic > style of boys transitional clothing: > > http://dept.kent.edu/museum/exhibit/kids/kids.html > > There is a book entitled "Children's Clothes" by Clair Rose, published by > Drama Book Publishers in 1989, which has some very helpful information and > images. There is also a wonderful image by Ingres "Portrait de Femme" of > a mother and son. The boy is wearing just what you are looking for. > > Dawn > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 19 14:24:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAJJOrCF003709 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 14:24:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAJJO6Jo003406 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:24:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAJJNvog029306; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:24:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAJJNqvP029069 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:23:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f2f.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.47]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 2907947FECA for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 20:23:38 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002101c4ce6d$5294d820$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.1.6.2.20041119121804.00cb9410@pop8.sympatico.ca> <003801c4ce65$c1e007c0$6601a8c0@Cyhiraeth> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boys Skeleton suit Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 20:23:59 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. Could someone please enlighten me. I have no clue what so eaver what a skelleton suit is. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joan Broneske" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 7:29 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boys Skeleton suit > Thanks! > > . > /' > // > . // > |\//7 > /' " \ > . . . > | ( \ '._ > | '._ ' '. ' > / \'-'_---. ) ) > . :.' > | \ > | . . . . > ' . | | | > \^ /_-': / > / | | '\ .' > / /| | \\ | > \ \( ) // / > \ | | // / > L! ! // / Joan Broneske > [_] L[_| unicorn@surewest.net > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dawn Luckham" > To: > Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 9:18 AM > Subject: [h-cost] Boys Skeleton suit > > >> This site has some amazing images. The skeleton suit shown is a little >> later that the Regency era. There is a lovely painting showing the >> "tunic style of boys transitional clothing: >> >> http://dept.kent.edu/museum/exhibit/kids/kids.html >> >> There is a book entitled "Children's Clothes" by Clair Rose, published by >> Drama Book Publishers in 1989, which has some very helpful information >> and images. There is also a wonderful image by Ingres "Portrait de >> Femme" of a mother and son. The boy is wearing just what you are looking >> for. >> >> Dawn >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 19 14:36:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAJJaKH3003767 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 14:36:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAJJZZJo004787 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:35:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAJJZPPi038898; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:35:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAJJZLQv038773 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:35:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.a1.522ab4f5 (3657) for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 14:35:11 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 14:35:10 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boys Skeleton suit To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5034 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/19/2004 2:25:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: I have no clue what so eaver what a skelleton suit is. A two piece suit for little boys--to wear after they are breeched--the jacket and pants would button together at the waist, giving a one-piece effect. I guess this is where the name skeleton suit comes from. A shirt was worn underneath--similar to a man's shirt but with a big floppy collar with a ruffle around the edge. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 19 14:42:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAJJgkLR003802 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 14:42:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAJJfZJo005450 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:41:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAJJfV7G044159; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:41:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAJJfTXR044112 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:41:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f2f.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.47]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 927D85EE041 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 20:41:25 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <004a01c4ce6f$cffa8510$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boys Skeleton suit Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 20:41:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, thanks for this. Well i have a pattern of such a suit from 1780. A la matélot in blue satin with linning of white flonnel. So email me privately, and i shall post the photo and the pattern. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 8:35 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boys Skeleton suit > In a message dated 11/19/2004 2:25:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, > drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: > I have no clue what so eaver what a > skelleton suit is. > A two piece suit for little boys--to wear after they are breeched--the > jacket > and pants would button together at the waist, giving a one-piece effect. > I > guess this is where the name skeleton suit comes from. A shirt was worn > underneath--similar to a man's shirt but with a big floppy collar with a > ruffle > around the edge. > > Ann Wass > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 19 14:57:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAJJvYpi003867 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 14:57:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAJJuHJo007266 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:56:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAJJu9GT057329; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:56:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f30.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.80]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAJJu6aM057234 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:56:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rharperny@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 11:56:01 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 24.247.201.55 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 19:55:37 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.247.201.55] X-Originating-Email: [rharperny@hotmail.com] X-Sender: rharperny@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200411181905.iAIJ3xm7066640@net.indra.com> From: "R Harper" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 14:55:37 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Nov 2004 19:56:01.0325 (UTC) FILETIME=[CB7475D0:01C4CE71] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Free hoop wire?? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings to the list. I seem to remember a while ago that in response to a question regarding hoop wire, someone stated that she used a sort of metal strapping that she got from somewhere like Home Depot or Lowe's, used in the shipping of goods and given up by them freely. I need to do a large hoop project as a favor for a friend with zero cash, so I am wondering if this might be something I'd like to try. Could the person with the info please post again to the list or write me privately? Many thanks in advance. Richard in MI "A positive attitude may not solve all of your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort" - Herm Albright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 19 14:58:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAJJwvrc003876 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 14:58:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAJJwIJo007544 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:58:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAJJwIHo059198; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:58:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.142]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iAJJvkSH058682 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:57:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Nov 2004 19:57:40 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041119195531.014911e8@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 19:57:43 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boys Skeleton suit In-Reply-To: <004a01c4ce6f$cffa8510$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id iAJJvkSH058682 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 20:41 19/11/2004 +0100, you wrote: >Oh, thanks for this. >Well i have a pattern of such a suit from 1780. A la matélot in blue satin >with linning of white flonnel. >So email me privately, and i shall post the photo and the pattern. > >Bjarne > > > >>In a message dated 11/19/2004 2:25:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, >>drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: >>I have no clue what so eaver what a >>skelleton suit is. >>A two piece suit for little boys--to wear after they are breeched--the jacket >>and pants would button together at the waist, giving a one-piece effect. I >>guess this is where the name skeleton suit comes from. A shirt was worn >>underneath--similar to a man's shirt but with a big floppy collar with a >>ruffle >>around the edge. I believe Marie Antoinette "invented", or had made, the first skeleton suits, when she was going through her "rural" phase and wearing milkmaid dresses and the "chemise" dresses that became so popular at that time. Reminds me forcefully of the modern "babygro"!! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 19 15:32:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAJKW2nM004046 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 15:32:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAJKVLJo011347 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 19 Nov 2004 13:31:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAJKVAmd087454; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 13:31:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm29.prodigy.net (ylpvm29-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.60]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAJKV8iC087418 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 13:31:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-56-216.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.56.216]) by ylpvm29.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAJKUxDV017552 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 15:30:59 -0500 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20041119122505.0264eeb8@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:28:36 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Free hoop wire?? In-Reply-To: References: <200411181905.iAIJ3xm7066640@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I seem to remember a while ago that in response to a question regarding >hoop wire, someone stated that she used a sort of metal strapping that she >got from somewhere like Home Depot or Lowe's, used in the shipping of >goods and given up by them freely. These are the bands bales of plywood are tied with. These used to be metal, but now they're likely to be plastic. Lumber sellers throw it away, so it can be yours for the asking. Positive side - it's cheap. Downside - metal ones are heavy and likely to be rusty. Plastic ones aren't as strong, so there may need to be more hoops per skirt to do the job. Also, these things don't come in nice long pieces, and may have joins in them. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 19 16:08:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAJL8VwQ004230 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 16:08:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAJL7FJo015613 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 19 Nov 2004 14:07:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAJL76oB019136; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 14:07:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.io.com (smtp.io.com [206.224.87.28]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAJL71bX018955 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 14:07:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from webmail.io.com (IDENT:frVrWvwRkA2HLd6cuEbGTH9NypzpJ4Ok@webmail.io.com [206.224.87.30]) by smtp.io.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAJL6rTI028073 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 15:06:53 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from webmail.io.com (webmail [127.0.0.1]) by webmail.io.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id iAJL6rg2002432 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 15:06:53 -0600 Received: (from apache@localhost) by webmail.io.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id iAJL6rjm002429; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 15:06:53 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: webmail.io.com: apache set sender to chiara@io.com using -f Received: from 147.136.125.91 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches) by webmail.io.com with HTTP; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 15:06:53 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3938.147.136.125.91.1100898413.squirrel@webmail.io.com> In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20041119122505.0264eeb8@mail.frys.com> References: <200411181905.iAIJ3xm7066640@net.indra.com> <4.3.1.2.20041119122505.0264eeb8@mail.frys.com> Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 15:06:53 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Free hoop wire?? From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If you have a local armourer you can take the metal ones over to them and have them treated for rust. There is a way that they treat metal so that rust will not attack so quickly. If it works for helms, it will work for hoops. :) Chiara Carolyn Kayta Barrows said: > >>I seem to remember a while ago that in response to a question >> regarding >>hoop wire, someone stated that she used a sort of metal strapping >> that she >>got from somewhere like Home Depot or Lowe's, used in the shipping >> of >>goods and given up by them freely. > > These are the bands bales of plywood are tied with. These used to > be > metal, but now they're likely to be plastic. Lumber sellers throw > it away, > so it can be yours for the asking. Positive side - it's cheap. > Downside - > metal ones are heavy and likely to be rusty. Plastic ones aren't as > strong, so there may need to be more hoops per skirt to do the job. > Also, > these things don't come in nice long pieces, and may have joins in > them. > > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Franchesca Havas Phone: 214-977-7540 Cell: 214-923-9869 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 19 16:14:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAJLEUZq004279 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 16:14:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAJLDXJo017184 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 19 Nov 2004 14:13:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAJLDTvY024428; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 14:13:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.68]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAJL9NSF021080 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 14:09:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from [4.155.57.100] (helo=HELENPINTO) by smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CVG0P-0004bB-5m for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 16:09:22 -0500 Message-ID: <01a801c4ce7c$05bcc3a0$64399b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Free hoop wire?? Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 16:09:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb69025943178dce0b62a5da8bf3d50201df9045b8357a3245350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.155.57.100 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Richard wrote: > I seem to remember a while ago that in response to a question regarding > hoop wire, someone stated that she used a sort of metal strapping that she > got from somewhere like Home Depot or Lowe's, used in the shipping of > goods and given up by them freely. There's another alternative, which while not free, is very cheap. I've been told it's a good alternative to hoop wire and you get about 25 feet of it for less than $3. (That's what I paid for mine two winters ago. For the plumbing.) The wire is flat, sturdy, and about 1/4" wide. -Helen/Aidan (Hey, cutie, got snow yet?) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 19 16:33:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAJLXmev004377 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 16:33:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAJLWsJo021500 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 19 Nov 2004 14:32:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAJLWm6M041525; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 14:32:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from copper.wightman.ca (copper.wightman.ca [216.249.0.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAJLWg5K041375 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 14:32:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lgsteph@wightman.ca) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by copper.wightman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB95A3F818 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 16:32:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from d7k7b6 (unknown [142.46.141.52]) by copper.wightman.ca (Postfix) with SMTP id 54EA73F80E for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 16:32:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002001c4ce7f$2b6abb40$6400a8c0@wightman.ca> From: "Five Rivers" To: Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 16:31:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20010714 X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] New Polish patterns X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO For those of you interested in things Polish, and things 16th century, you might be interested in the two new Reconstructing History Patterns now available: http://www.5rivers.org/en-gb/dept_40.html Regards Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage fine hand-sewn embroidered garments, historical sewing patterns & embroidery supplies (519) 799-5577, http://www.5rivers.org email: info@5rivers.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 19 19:08:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAK08dVh005013 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 19:08:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAK07gJo008998 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:07:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAK07T3n067730; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:07:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ns3.linuxwebnet.com (ns3.linuxwebnet.com [216.133.76.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iAK07LYs067622 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:07:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from judymitch@oldwaylane.net) Received: (qmail 18815 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2004 01:41:19 -0000 Received: from dialup-4.249.138.212.dial1.washington2.level3.net (HELO oldwaylane.net) (4.249.138.212) by shada.com with SMTP; 20 Nov 2004 01:41:19 -0000 Message-ID: <419E89A2.6090206@oldwaylane.net> Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 19:02:42 -0500 From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Herjolfsness book X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It's out! I just ordered mine from David Brown Books. I know this is something a few folks on this list have been waiting on as wel, so I thought I'd pass on the good news. If you pre-ordered, it shoudl be getting into the mail to you, I would think. -Judy Mitchell Woven into the Earth: Textile finds in Norse Greenland by Else Ostergaard 256p, illus., (Aarhus University Press 2004) ISBN 8772889357. Hardback. Publishers price US $49.95 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 19 19:24:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAK0OMa9005056 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 19:24:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAK0NkJo010703 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:23:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAK0Ni8B079272; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:23:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.193]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAK0Nhrm079248 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:23:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jacquelinejbump@gmail.com) Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id q1so84902rnf for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 16:23:42 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=C1cdV9ZuhZyR/sN61JfYbi8ME4g+EvdGgl61T14zemE7G08fxF0W+I2ebQb4D+1RwdYVrkA4jCzRJ0F9oQXTE6dl6BG4bj/GLuMjcAMfN/cUPPamzLHbhjSaJZ9S0xxhNtzTkQnIejwnkpoOvh0R1OMLxACucBnd1JkeKSZMt4U= Received: by 10.38.79.36 with SMTP id c36mr406357rnb; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 16:23:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.38.14.59 with HTTP; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 16:23:41 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4c5accc80411191623275e9e01@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 19:23:41 -0500 From: Jacqueline Johnson To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boys Skeleton suit In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:25:39 -0700, Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > What's breeching? Is that like potty training? Breeching is taking boy's out of dresses which they wore until they were 5 (or even older sometimes) and putting them into "breeches" or pants. Usually short ones and then at age 12 or so they could wear long pants. -- ============================ http://stores.ebay.com/Kristalori eBay store now open!! Effluvia and other Ephemera. ============================ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 19 19:26:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAK0QP2A005065 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 19:26:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAK0KnJo010363 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:20:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAK0KeXJ077229; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:20:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAK0KSol077073 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:20:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.3.162] (p02.3c04.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.3.162]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id iAK0Iu829016 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:18:56 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boys Skeleton suit Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:25:39 -0700 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What's breeching? Is that like potty training? On Nov 19, 2004, at 12:35 PM, AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/19/2004 2:25:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, > drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: > I have no clue what so eaver what a > skelleton suit is. > A two piece suit for little boys--to wear after they are breeched--the > jacket > and pants would button together at the waist, giving a one-piece > effect. I > guess this is where the name skeleton suit comes from. A shirt was > worn > underneath--similar to a man's shirt but with a big floppy collar with > a ruffle > around the edge. > > Ann Wass > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 19 19:31:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAK0Vf42005082 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 19:31:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAK0UvJo011420 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:30:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAK0UrNb084329; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:30:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-118.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.118]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAK0UnxA084224 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:30:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by mail.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98721425D5 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 20:03:01 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <419E9030.50808@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 18:30:40 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boys Skeleton suit References: <4c5accc80411191623275e9e01@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4c5accc80411191623275e9e01@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>What's breeching? Is that like potty training? > > > Breeching is taking boy's out of dresses which they wore until they > were 5 (or even older sometimes) and putting them into "breeches" or > pants. Usually short ones and then at age 12 or so they could wear > long pants. The assumption being that by that age yes, they were potty trained and no longer needed diapers (which could be changed quickly if they were wearing a dress). Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 19 19:35:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAK0ZX9i005090 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 19:35:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAK0YqJo011915 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:34:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAK0YpjL087296; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:34:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm43.prodigy.net (ylpvm43-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.74]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAK0YlKC087251 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:34:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-56-216.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.56.216]) by ylpvm43.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAK0YnJD021955 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 19:34:50 -0500 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20041119163255.03273720@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 16:34:35 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boys Skeleton suit In-Reply-To: <4c5accc80411191623275e9e01@mail.gmail.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > What's breeching? Is that like potty training? Very much like it. The idea of skirts seems to be for easy access to the diaper-garments. >Breeching is taking boy's out of dresses which they wore until they >were 5 (or even older sometimes) and putting them into "breeches" or >pants. Usually short ones and then at age 12 or so they could wear >long pants. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 19 19:37:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAK0bMnt005095 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 19:37:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAK0amJo012164 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:36:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAK0aj8n088575; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:36:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.198]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAK0aXIc088439 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:36:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jacquelinejbump@gmail.com) Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id q1so85707rnf for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 16:36:33 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=YKosSh32d6xf1gds2NB72FFQMdRdtkTxKWYsNWbvWzZD6Sv3fYN+qu2m/EqoyPYN1vNbSUBuRPM7f/9QTKmY9FfOg1lGD/tTG4MxEpVpX+umrgslRs+UFXZmzkEjS9Osh00GyetnnMMKPXQUefTqkGDXpzLMjXW+ZT/h17PpyDs= Received: by 10.38.82.31 with SMTP id f31mr411960rnb; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 16:36:32 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.38.14.59 with HTTP; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 16:36:32 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4c5accc804111916366a7cc27@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 19:36:32 -0500 From: Jacqueline Johnson To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boys Skeleton suit In-Reply-To: <419E9030.50808@reddawn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <4c5accc80411191623275e9e01@mail.gmail.com> <419E9030.50808@reddawn.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 18:30:40 -0600, Dawn wrote: > > >>What's breeching? Is that like potty training? > > > > > > Breeching is taking boy's out of dresses which they wore until they > > were 5 (or even older sometimes) and putting them into "breeches" or > > pants. Usually short ones and then at age 12 or so they could wear > > long pants. > > The assumption being that by that age yes, they were potty trained and > no longer needed diapers (which could be changed quickly if they were > wearing a dress). > > Dawn I dunno but if by age 5 they still needed a diaper they had more problems than still being in a dress. I forget the exact routes but the steps tended to be swaddling-long dresses-short dresses-breeched-trousers. ============================ http://stores.ebay.com/Kristalori eBay store now open!! Effluvia and other Ephemera. ============================ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 19 20:39:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAK1dYfI005323 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 20:39:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAK1d1Jo018361 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 19 Nov 2004 18:39:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAK1crdj028508; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 18:38:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m27.mx.aol.com (imo-m27.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAK1cp9G028434 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 18:38:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.110.3d43f985 (18403) for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 20:38:40 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <110.3d43f985.2ecffa20@aol.com> Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 20:38:40 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boys Skeleton suit To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5034 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/19/2004 7:31:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, dawn@reddawn.net writes: Usually short ones and then at age 12 or so they could wear > long pants. Although I think the short pants is a later 19th century custom--another interesting thing to research! Because the early 19th century skeleton suits (or, another alternative, short coat without tails and non-matching trousers) all have long pants. Ann _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 19 20:42:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAK1gras005326 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 20:42:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAK1gJJo018619 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 19 Nov 2004 18:42:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAK1gIXP030568; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 18:42:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp101.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp101.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.36.79]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iAK1eTtg029467 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 18:40:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nicolaa@rogers.com) Received: from unknown (HELO g5e4d0) (nicolaa@rogers.com@69.195.102.229 with login) by smtp101.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Nov 2004 01:40:23 -0000 Message-ID: <000b01c4cea1$ed015300$e566c345@g5e4d0> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: "Historical Costume" , "h-costume" References: <419E89A2.6090206@oldwaylane.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Herjolfsness book Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 20:40:32 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings! > It's out! I just ordered mine from David Brown Books. I know this is > something a few folks on this list have been waiting on as wel, so I > thought I'd pass on the good news. If you pre-ordered, it shoudl be > getting into the mail to you, I would think. -Judy Mitchell In fact, I just checked my credit card, and it charged today. I've had it on order from David Brown since May of 2003. Woohoo! Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 19 20:43:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAK1h600005329 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 20:43:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAK1gUJo018639 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 19 Nov 2004 18:42:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAK1gUxM030689; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 18:42:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp101.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp101.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.36.79]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iAK1eTTd029468 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 18:40:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nicolaa@rogers.com) Received: from unknown (HELO g5e4d0) (nicolaa@rogers.com@69.195.102.229 with login) by smtp101.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Nov 2004 01:40:23 -0000 Message-ID: <000b01c4cea1$ed015300$e566c345@g5e4d0> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: "Historical Costume" , "h-costume" References: <419E89A2.6090206@oldwaylane.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Herjolfsness book Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 20:40:32 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings! > It's out! I just ordered mine from David Brown Books. I know this is > something a few folks on this list have been waiting on as wel, so I > thought I'd pass on the good news. If you pre-ordered, it shoudl be > getting into the mail to you, I would think. -Judy Mitchell In fact, I just checked my credit card, and it charged today. I've had it on order from David Brown since May of 2003. Woohoo! Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 19 20:58:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAK1wL5j005368 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 20:58:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAK1vmJo020301 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 19 Nov 2004 18:57:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAK1vgmt039898; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 18:57:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.196]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAK1vb0j039858 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 18:57:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jacquelinejbump@gmail.com) Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id q1so88872rnf for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:57:37 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=jNRUBn2H5QmdVrWq9mFLdyCUWf05ZU890UaT6FQorQFOOWeLhkaims2B+qgpsTx2P8WdbvpuEerZAI+YujRxYaTVgx7c5psE4nw22KlkbPFiup9lyT6ntrgrXjWngXfra++fbbP9FRdS8t/M9h91IDgsgiTu9dXZ/7wVJWiQTjE= Received: by 10.38.77.37 with SMTP id z37mr432610rna; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:57:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.38.14.59 with HTTP; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:57:37 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4c5accc804111917576e68cf3d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 20:57:37 -0500 From: Jacqueline Johnson To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boys Skeleton suit In-Reply-To: <110.3d43f985.2ecffa20@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <110.3d43f985.2ecffa20@aol.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 20:38:40 EST, annbwass@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/19/2004 7:31:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, > dawn@reddawn.net writes: > Usually short ones and then at age 12 or so they could wear > > long pants. > Although I think the short pants is a later 19th century custom--another > interesting thing to research! Because the early 19th century skeleton suits (or, > another alternative, short coat without tails and non-matching trousers) all > have long pants. > > Ann True and I should have said so. Short pants seem to be a post 1860 sort of boy's fashion. Although I seem to recall having seen it in early forms such as knee breeches and the like being worn before the graduation into what we'd see as more modern pants. And then there is boy's sack suits and Eton jackets and the like. The late 1790's were a real change for children's clothing. -- ============================ http://stores.ebay.com/Kristalori eBay store now open!! Effluvia and other Ephemera. ============================ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 19 22:13:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAK3DXuT005619 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 22:13:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAK3CuJo026908 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 19 Nov 2004 20:12:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAK3CiEc084387; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 20:12:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iAK3Cf0t084360 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 20:12:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 15226 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2004 03:14:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO webmail.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com with SMTP; 20 Nov 2004 03:14:14 -0000 Received: from 162.119.64.110 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com); by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 19:12:40 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4558.162.119.64.110.1100920360.squirrel@162.119.64.110> In-Reply-To: <419E89A2.6090206@oldwaylane.net> References: <419E89A2.6090206@oldwaylane.net> Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 19:12:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Herjolfsness book From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a X-Mailer: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > It's out! I just ordered mine from David Brown Books. I know this is > something a few folks on this list have been waiting on as wel, so I > thought I'd pass on the good news. If you pre-ordered, it shoudl be > getting into the mail to you, I would think. -Judy Mitchell > > Woven into the Earth: Textile finds in Norse Greenland > by Else Ostergaard > > 256p, illus., (Aarhus University Press 2004) > ISBN 8772889357. Hardback. Publishers price US $49.95 Would you be willing to give the list a book review when it arrives? I am interested but would like to know more about it before I order. Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 19 22:50:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAK3oUET005766 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 22:50:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAK3nuJo029635 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 19 Nov 2004 20:49:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAK3nq33005765; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 20:49:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAK3nnYA005738 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 20:49:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iAK4ri9j001518 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 23:53:45 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boys Skeleton suit Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 23:05:37 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <4.3.1.2.20041119163255.03273720@mail.frys.com> In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20041119163255.03273720@mail.frys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200411192305.37138.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 19 November 2004 7:34 pm, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > > What's breeching? Is that like potty training? > > Very much like it. The idea of skirts seems to be for easy access to the > diaper-garments. > > >Breeching is taking boy's out of dresses which they wore until they > >were 5 (or even older sometimes) and putting them into "breeches" or > >pants. Usually short ones and then at age 12 or so they could wear > >long pants. My impression of the practice is that it connoted more than ease of toilet training, since boys often were not breeched until long after they should have mastered toilet training. It seems to have been an excuse to celebrate a giant step toward "becoming a man." -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 20 09:44:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAKEiQDH002691 for ; Sat, 20 Nov 2004 09:44:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAKEhmJo026423 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 20 Nov 2004 07:43:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAKEhdEX078647; Sat, 20 Nov 2004 07:43:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAKEhbMa078548 for ; Sat, 20 Nov 2004 07:43:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.155.44206063 (4362) for ; Sat, 20 Nov 2004 09:43:30 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <155.44206063.2ed0b212@aol.com> Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 09:43:30 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boys Skeleton suit To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5034 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/19/2004 10:51:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, cathy@thyrsus.com writes: It seems to have been an excuse to celebrate a giant step toward "becoming a man." And, if a family was wealthy and of the horsy sort, also the ago of a boy's first pony. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 20 10:49:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAKFnn0K003011 for ; Sat, 20 Nov 2004 10:49:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAKFnFJo000575 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 20 Nov 2004 08:49:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAKFn4Cj018934; Sat, 20 Nov 2004 08:49:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAKFn1E4018905 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 20 Nov 2004 08:49:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iAKGqwRu016983 for ; Sat, 20 Nov 2004 11:52:59 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boys Skeleton suit Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 11:04:50 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <155.44206063.2ed0b212@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <155.44206063.2ed0b212@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200411201104.50960.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Saturday 20 November 2004 9:43 am, AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/19/2004 10:51:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, > cathy@thyrsus.com writes: > It seems to have been an excuse to celebrate > a giant step toward "becoming a man." [Ann replied:] > And, if a family was wealthy and of the horsy sort, also the ago of a boy's > first pony. Really? Now that I didn't know. Interesting. -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 20 10:53:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAKFrkfA003035 for ; Sat, 20 Nov 2004 10:53:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAKFrEJo000725 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 20 Nov 2004 08:53:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAKFrEqx021504; Sat, 20 Nov 2004 08:53:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.184]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAKFr55D021429 for ; Sat, 20 Nov 2004 08:53:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dluckham@sympatico.ca) Received: from Main.sympatico.ca ([69.156.7.33]) by tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with ESMTP id <20041120155301.RKWA1919.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@Main.sympatico.ca> for ; Sat, 20 Nov 2004 10:53:01 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20041120095443.00cacb68@pop8.sympatico.ca> X-Sender: b1jerw63@pop8.sympatico.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 10:52:48 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Dawn Luckham Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Skeleton Suit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all, I've been reading with great interest all of the Boy's Skeleton suit posts. I'm interested though in the term "breeched" being used with the skeleton suit. It has always been my understanding that the 'skeleton suit' along with the 'tunic suit' were transitional styles of clothing for the very young and did not quite classify as being "breeched". The subject of convenience has been brought up as far as why little ones (both boys and girls) wore petticoats. It was for changing nappies (diapers) with ease. Once a little boy was reliably potty trained, he could begin to wear transitional clothing. From my research and reading, it seems that different time periods "breeched" their boys at different ages. During the Victorian era there were periods where the "age of breeching" is quite high (5 or 6 yrs. even!). On the other hand, during the Regency, little boys were put into breeches at an earlier age (maybe 3 or 4). The transitional styles were important particularly during the periods that a boy was breeched at an older age. It must have been awkward to consider a 5 year old still in petticoats. (Queen Victoria worked around it by dressing her young lads in kilts for formal occasions.) Up until this discussion, I had never considered that the transitional styles of tunic suit and skeleton suit as being officially in trousers or breeches. These styles were not yet the clothing of a young man and I'm not sure that they actually qualify as being "breeched". Transitional styles are still "baby clothes" in the minds of the parents who dressed their sons in them. Just for interest and enjoyment, here are some pretty pictures: This first one is a little boy still in a frock 1849. http://content-dev.lib.washington.edu/cgi-bin/viewer.exe?CISOROOT=/costumehist&CISOPTR=90&CISORESTMP=/site-templates/search_results-sub.html&CISOVIEWTMP=/site-templates/item_viewer.html&CISOMODE=thumb This group of children illustrates what I meant. The older boy is breeched the younger boy still wears the tunic. Yes, he wears trousers underneath but if you look at the little girls, technically, they do too. http://content-dev.lib.washington.edu/costumehist/image/284.jpg And finally, here is the portrait by Jean-Auguste-Dominique Ingres of a mother and son 1809. The little boy wearing a skeleton suit. http://hal.ucr.edu/~cathy/images/i-ingres/ingxvii.jpeg Enjoy the pictures! Respectfully, Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 20 18:11:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAKNBFdd005478 for ; Sat, 20 Nov 2004 18:11:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAKNAdJo027443 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 20 Nov 2004 16:10:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAKNANaP097846; Sat, 20 Nov 2004 16:10:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webwarren.com (65.18.210.ptr [65.18.210.91] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAKNAKfC097727 for ; Sat, 20 Nov 2004 16:10:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from webwarren@earthlink.net) Received: from cottontail.webwarren.com (pcp09760503pcs.plnfld01.nj.comcast.net [68.38.25.187]) by webwarren.com (8.12.10/8.11.2) with ESMTP id iAKNAAFq012374 for ; Sat, 20 Nov 2004 18:10:10 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: webwarren.com: webbwarren owned process doing -bs Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.0.20041120175958.019ff7f8@earthlink.net> X-Sender: n2kye@mail.webwarren.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 18:10:05 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda Bell Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Skeleton Suit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO From the descriptions given, it sounds like something similar to today's "button-on suit" -- a young boy's pants button which button onto a fancy/frilly shirt, often with a large collar. You'll find the design among purveyors of "heirloom sewing" patterns. Based on the boys modeling "button-on suits" in "heirloom sewing" mags such as _Sew Beautiful_ and _Creative Needle_, it looks like today's style is meant to be worn by boys between the ages of 3 and 6, or 3 and 8, though I think I've seen some modeled on toddler boys as well. The length of the pants of "button-on" suits seems to vary from about shorts-length to mid-calf/plus-fours, the longer lengths being shown on the older boys. Looking at the models in the magazines, it always seemed to me that the utility of the "button-on" was to make sure the pants didn't fall down or the shirt didn't get untucked during the special occasion for which the boy was required to wear this get-up. Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 20 23:38:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAL4cdUh006999 for ; Sat, 20 Nov 2004 23:38:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAL4boJo017364 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 20 Nov 2004 21:37:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAL4bg8R000343; Sat, 20 Nov 2004 21:37:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41821.mail.yahoo.com (web41821.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.94.155]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iAL4bfda000257 for ; Sat, 20 Nov 2004 21:37:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from celticredhead2002@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 77474 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Nov 2004 04:37:35 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=xGsocTnRq4J0MB86UOaaqzsqT0d+VVnvv6/c02S/xlwLaJwcpOxBL8LSMfzIaS2+EpXS7O4LuVyKlihP/qSBMWcX5r/akyQTpqAIgdCcfkoOncwfwtaFJgxosvEDpEExBUfp0LqOOC/IYnfffS6V7wSOPme8NZ2DK6jXsJkcPcM= ; Message-ID: <20041121043735.77472.qmail@web41821.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.14.178.13] by web41821.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 20 Nov 2004 20:37:35 PST Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 20:37:35 -0800 (PST) From: Melody Watts Subject: Re: [h-cost] Skeleton Suit and Boy dresses To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20041120095443.00cacb68@pop8.sympatico.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, A little "human interest" on this subject... My stepdad's "wife"...(who is late 70's) likes to tell about her dad teasing them. He would whip out old photographs of him as a toddler, wearing a white ruffly dress. he would then procede to tell them " Back when I was a little girl...." So dressing little boys in "dresses" was still common in the 1920's too. Melody --- Dawn Luckham wrote: > I'm interested though in the term "breeched" being used with the skeleton suit. > > The subject of convenience has been brought up as > far as why little ones (both boys and girls) wore petticoats. . Once a little boy was reliably > potty trained, he could begin to wear transitional clothing. > During the Victorian era there were periods > eswhere the "age of breeching" is quite high (5 or 6 yrs. even!). It must have been awkward > to consider a 5 year old still in petticoats. ( > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! http://my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 20 23:43:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAL4hM6L007032 for ; Sat, 20 Nov 2004 23:43:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAL4gaJo017530 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 20 Nov 2004 21:42:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAL4gZJQ003211; Sat, 20 Nov 2004 21:42:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41809.mail.yahoo.com (web41809.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.143]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iAL4c69v000525 for ; Sat, 20 Nov 2004 21:38:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from celticredhead2002@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 48344 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Nov 2004 04:38:00 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=R47LQZlg81HSycpALJH5dB/1rwXrJiPAANXlX2bKmJRHXYbfmhmYA2a/PrLCRuAa+p6J5Sd4WRUWgzj5CF1ivkL6jBWJAKznP+aXyApy9/3JtZkqvgtVbat2m95D3AHYGF5zsflEGrmumyvS8EJ/zeK81vzRoYAgb9cbP+9BQ/0= ; Message-ID: <20041121043800.48342.qmail@web41809.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.14.178.13] by web41809.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 20 Nov 2004 20:38:00 PST Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 20:38:00 -0800 (PST) From: Melody Watts Subject: Re: [h-cost] Skeleton Suit and Boy dresses To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20041120095443.00cacb68@pop8.sympatico.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, A little "human interest" on this subject... My stepdad's "wife"...(who is late 70's) likes to tell about her dad teasing them. He would whip out old photographs of him as a toddler, wearing a white ruffly dress. he would then procede to tell them " Back when I was a little girl...." So dressing little boys in "dresses" was still common in the 1920's too. Melody --- Dawn Luckham wrote: > I'm interested though in the term "breeched" being used with the skeleton suit. > > The subject of convenience has been brought up as > far as why little ones (both boys and girls) wore petticoats. . Once a little boy was reliably > potty trained, he could begin to wear transitional clothing. > During the Victorian era there were periods > eswhere the "age of breeching" is quite high (5 or 6 yrs. even!). It must have been awkward > to consider a 5 year old still in petticoats. ( > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 21 00:22:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAL5MV47007188 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 00:22:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAL5M0Jo019792 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 20 Nov 2004 22:22:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAL5Ltmn025994; Sat, 20 Nov 2004 22:21:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAL5Lrwn025937 for ; Sat, 20 Nov 2004 22:21:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA15245 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 00:32:31 -0600 Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 00:32:30 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Skeleton Suit and Boy dresses In-Reply-To: <20041121043735.77472.qmail@web41821.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sat, 20 Nov 2004, Melody Watts wrote: > Hi, A little "human interest" on this subject... My stepdad's > "wife"...(who is late 70's) likes to tell about her dad teasing them. > He would whip out old photographs of him as a toddler, wearing a white > ruffly dress. he would then procede to tell them " Back when I was a > little girl...." > So dressing little boys in "dresses" was still common in the 1920's > too. Hmm, if she's in her late 70s, she was a child in the late 1920s and early 1930s. That means her father (who was referring to his childhood) would have been talking about the very early years of the 1900s. And apparently by the time she was hearing this story (late 20s perhaps), it must have no longer been common, or the joke wouldn't have worked. Or did I misread your post? --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 21 02:08:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAL78QSX007509 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 02:08:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAL77dJo023419 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 21 Nov 2004 00:07:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAL77Uf9080720; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 00:07:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.pacifier.net (smtp2.pacifier.net [64.255.237.172]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAL77RPg080638 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 00:07:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Scourney@nwlink.com) Received: from sc (ip157.usw235.dsl-acs2.sea.iinet.com [207.202.235.157]) by smtp2.pacifier.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 484A18300E for ; Sat, 20 Nov 2004 23:07:21 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <002d01c4cf99$671ff4f0$0200a8c0@sc> From: "Susan" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] and Boy dresses Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 23:12:03 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My dad had a picture of himself taken as a child - wearing a white dress. This would have been early 1930's in Portsmouth NH. So even if it wasn't common then, it wasn't unknown either. (he had cute blond curls too.) Susan in Seattle > > On Sat, 20 Nov 2004, Melody Watts wrote: > > > Hi, A little "human interest" on this subject... My stepdad's > > "wife"...(who is late 70's) likes to tell about her dad teasing them. > > He would whip out old photographs of him as a toddler, wearing a white > > ruffly dress. he would then procede to tell them " Back when I was a > > little girl...." > > So dressing little boys in "dresses" was still common in the 1920's > > too. > > Hmm, if she's in her late 70s, she was a child in the late 1920s and early > 1930s. That means her father (who was referring to his childhood) would > have been talking about the very early years of the 1900s. And apparently > by the time she was hearing this story (late 20s perhaps), it must have no > longer been common, or the joke wouldn't have worked. Or did I misread > your post? > > --Robin > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 21 07:16:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iALCGeVI022012 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 07:16:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iALCG1Jo017929 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 21 Nov 2004 05:16:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iALCFPM0046337; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 05:15:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.129]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iALCFITi046278 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 05:15:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jschneider3@mn.rr.com) Received: from mn.rr.com (CPE-24-26-186-147.mn.rr.com [24.26.186.147]) by ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id iALCFFOl025988 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 06:15:15 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <41A086D0.8080201@mn.rr.com> Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 06:15:12 -0600 From: JB Schneider User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] and Boy dresses References: <002d01c4cf99$671ff4f0$0200a8c0@sc> In-Reply-To: <002d01c4cf99$671ff4f0$0200a8c0@sc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO While my younger brother never had to wear a dress, he did experience the change from "short pants" to long ones. Until he was almost four, mom dressed him (as was common in our area) in short pants. Just before his fourth birthday, he got his first pair of long pants. Not long after that, we went to Florida for Christmas vacation (1966) and David was put back into shorts. He was thoroughly offended and spent most of the trip trying to pull his pants down to cover his knees> We're only three years apart in age, but I still remember the hotel room complaints he made about being a "big boy now" so "I wear LONG pants". Generys Susan wrote: > My dad had a picture of himself taken as a child - wearing a white dress. > This would have been early 1930's in Portsmouth NH. So even if it wasn't > common then, it wasn't unknown either. (he had cute blond curls too.) > > Susan in Seattle > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 21 12:10:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iALHAc47024839 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 12:10:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iALH9eJo001339 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 21 Nov 2004 10:09:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iALH9Jas009728; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 10:09:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-118.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.118]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iALH942C009530 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 10:09:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by mail.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB373425D5 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 12:41:22 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <41A0CBB9.1090806@reddawn.net> Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 11:09:13 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/594/Fri Nov 19 03:06:44 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] looking for 'renaissance' fabric X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm just about to give up in frustration. I'm looking for a fabric suitable for use as a lining for a houpellande, you know, with the big sleeves that show. I need about 15 yards to complete several garments. I need it in gold or yellow. I've hit local shops, and not so local shops, and every internet site I could find and I'm not having any luck. I really want to get these outfits done by Christmas and I am running out of time fast. Does anyone here either have 15 yards of yellow/gold lining, or know of a website that sells something appropriate for renaissance costuming? I'm about to go blind searching. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 21 12:20:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iALHKx3v024877 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 12:20:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iALHKGJo001969 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 21 Nov 2004 10:20:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iALHK68J015916; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 10:20:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iALHJ47Z015233 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 10:19:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id iALHEnTA029891 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 12:14:49 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 12:14:48 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <41A0CE06.6060804@thibault.org> Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 12:19:02 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for 'renaissance' fabric References: <41A0CBB9.1090806@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: <41A0CBB9.1090806@reddawn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dawn wrote: > Does anyone here either have 15 yards of yellow/gold lining, or know of > a website that sells something appropriate for renaissance costuming? > I'm about to go blind searching. What's your price point? Woven pattern or flat? -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent The latin word 'carpe' is principally an agricultural term meaning to harvest, pluck, or gather. So the phrase should really be translated as 'harvest the day,' which is a lot more laid back than 'seize the day.' -- Alex Boese _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 21 12:40:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iALHeel7025039 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 12:40:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iALHe4Jo003224 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 21 Nov 2004 10:40:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iALHdwQw027554; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 10:40:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iALHdtPG027480 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 10:39:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (c-24-21-147-231.client.comcast.net [24.21.147.231]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id iALHdma16564 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 12:39:48 -0500 Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 09:38:08 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for 'renaissance' fabric Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <41A0CBB9.1090806@reddawn.net> Message-Id: <1BBE2352-3BE4-11D9-9AAD-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello, have you tried Ebay? There are a couple merchants that have dupioni silk that runs around $10/yard. I have bought both black and red and have been happy with the quality. Althea On Sunday, November 21, 2004, at 09:09 AM, Dawn wrote: > I'm just about to give up in frustration. I'm looking for a fabric > suitable for use as a lining for a houpellande, you know, with the big > sleeves that show. I need about 15 yards to complete several garments. > I need it in gold or yellow. I've hit local shops, and not so local > shops, and every internet site I could find and I'm not having any > luck. I really want to get these outfits done by Christmas and I am > running out of time fast. > > Does anyone here either have 15 yards of yellow/gold lining, or know > of a website that sells something appropriate for renaissance > costuming? I'm about to go blind searching. > > > Dawn > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com I think, therefore I'm dangerous. I'll be Post-Feminist in a Post-Patriarchy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 21 12:43:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iALHhtSu025060 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 12:43:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iALHhMJo003375 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 21 Nov 2004 10:43:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iALHhLhN029459; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 10:43:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iALHgQcN029013 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 10:42:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from IceGirlNIN@aol.com) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.d4.1b95b453 (18555) for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 12:42:20 -0500 (EST) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 12:42:19 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for 'renaissance' fabric To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5000 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/21/2004 12:16:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, dawn@reddawn.net writes: Does anyone here either have 15 yards of yellow/gold lining, or know of a website that sells something appropriate for renaissance costuming? I'm about to go blind searching. Are you looking specifically for natural fibers, or does that matter to you? fabric.com has burnished gold jacquard lining, but it's polyester (and $4.95/yard). They also have several different colors of gold silk dupioni, but that's $9.95 a yard and most consider it inappropriate for renaissance costuming. On the other hand, if you're looking for linen, I know a store in NYC that does mail-order and has linen for around $3-5 a yard. Last I was there they had a rainbow of colors, and if you want I'll e-mail you their phone number so that you can call and ask. Christine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 21 12:55:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iALHtBQ5025125 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 12:55:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iALHseJo003918 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 21 Nov 2004 10:54:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iALHsbKB036012; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 10:54:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iALHsY0T035960 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 10:54:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20076 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 13:05:18 -0600 Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 13:05:16 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for 'renaissance' fabric In-Reply-To: <41A0CBB9.1090806@reddawn.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sun, 21 Nov 2004, Dawn wrote: > Does anyone here either have 15 yards of yellow/gold lining, or know > of a website that sells something appropriate for renaissance > costuming? I'm about to go blind searching. If you're not worried about fiber content, I've had luck finding exactly this in antique satin -- either at "mill end" or discount drapery shops that carry out-of-style bolts, or at thrift stores or Goodwill, where people are dumping their harvest gold draperies. I have bought, and cut through, quite a number of patio-door-size drapes for exactly that purpose. I'd give you my leftovers, but I don't think I have 15 yards left, and I don't buy them anymore for my current work, which requires natural fibers. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 21 12:58:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iALHwH7b025137 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 12:58:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iALHveJo004064 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 21 Nov 2004 10:57:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iALHve7V037921; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 10:57:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m16.mx.aol.com (imo-m16.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.206]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iALHug5P037265 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 10:56:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.bf.4b10c18a (3988) for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 12:56:33 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 12:56:33 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Skeleton Suit and Boy dresses To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5034 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/20/2004 11:42:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, celticredhead2002@yahoo.com writes: So dressing little boys in "dresses" was still common in the 1920's too. And even later--I have a book about Queen Elizabeth II that has a picture of Prince Charles in a dress. Also, I believe it is the Masons where one of the archivists likes to tell people that he has a picture of J. Edgar Hoover in a dress (remember the rumors about his proclivities?), and it is a baby picture. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 21 13:40:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iALIe2AY025392 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 13:40:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iALIdSJo006273 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 21 Nov 2004 11:39:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iALIdKSu065809; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 11:39:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41808.mail.yahoo.com (web41808.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.142]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iALIdISL065728 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 11:39:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from celticredhead2002@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 36215 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Nov 2004 18:39:13 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=DU5Nk29vCFT4WhS72FPl7tEoj65PW7JDOA+1jayLf2eMqLBVHVzEkuSWgFSWiDJspW+g1YY5BbQDgYVq7lm711iNUHDB+xIz4+Ljl2jLFf5oaQAu5sSsBZ/oTt/VYCDGOXDJ84I3/j6E1bIevjH0s9ncFd6edkCJX/S591SWY9E= ; Message-ID: <20041121183913.36213.qmail@web41808.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.14.178.13] by web41808.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 10:39:13 PST Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 10:39:13 -0800 (PST) From: Melody Watts Subject: Re: [h-cost] Skeleton Suit and Boy dresses To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO He had the pictures to prove it, dress and curly blond ringlets,apparently he liked to whip out the photos to make his story, They were from new york, Irish immigrants.... i remember reading about the Irish in particular , who would keep the boys in dresses longer to "protect" them from the wee folk, who liked to steal young baby boys . By keeping them in dresses ,it was supposed to fool the wee folks and insure your son remained home.... of course dressing a boy in a dress would probably take care of that too.;!> This "tradition" probably followed them to America. She ,the woman, is now in a board & care for alzheimer so her time frame might have been off, but yes I saw the boy in the gown....a real cutie --- Robin Netherton wrote: > > On Sat, 20 Nov 2004, Melody Watts wrote: > > > Hi, A little "human interest" on this subject... > My stepdad's > > "wife"...(who is late 70's) likes to tell about > her dad teasing them. > > He would whip out old photographs of him as a > toddler, wearing a white > > ruffly dress. he would then procede to tell them " > Back when I was a > > little girl...." > > So dressing little boys in "dresses" was still > common in the 1920's > > too. > > Hmm, if she's in her late 70s, she was a child in > the late 1920s and early > 1930s. That means her father (who was referring to > his childhood) would > have been talking about the very early years of the > 1900s. And apparently > by the time she was hearing this story (late 20s > perhaps), it must have no > longer been common, or the joke wouldn't have > worked. Or did I misread > your post? > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 21 15:06:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iALK6MoT026244 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 15:06:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iALK5kJo013312 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 21 Nov 2004 13:05:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iALK5cFd016516; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 13:05:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.67]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iALK5Y5x016485 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 13:05:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from [4.155.57.59] (helo=HELENPINTO) by smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CVxxk-0008O8-B0 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 15:05:34 -0500 Message-ID: <011201c4d005$70cf1550$3b399b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002d01c4cf99$671ff4f0$0200a8c0@sc> <41A086D0.8080201@mn.rr.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] and Boy dresses Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 15:05:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb69025943178dce0be12a47e87473508ff8d35138416e4eb8350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.155.57.59 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My brother and I both went to parochial school in one of the outer boroughs of NYC. Unlike most parochial schools, we didn't have an official school uniform, but wore the same assembly day clothes as the kids in the NYC public schools- white shirt, navy pants and tie for the boys and navy skirt, white blouse and red tie for the girls. Public school kids wore it once a week; we wore it every day. When my brother started in 1959, my mother sent him off in navy shorts and matching knee socks. They sent him home with a note to wear long pants. My mother rolled in and explained that long pants were inappropriate for a boy of his age. He continued to go in shorts until third or fourth grade. His winter coat had matching leggings, so he didn't freeze in winter. (My coats had them, too.) Our winters had lots of snow, but Septembers and Junes were usually hot and humid. As the other boys sweated in their long wool pants, they were very jealous of my brother's shorts. He was the only one in our school who wore them, and maybe even the only one his age in the neighborhood. He also wore Eton suits with matching caps for Sundays and special occasions and his first holy communion suit had shorts (again, the only one). In the 50's and early 60's, this was probably a class thing, since this style of dress was pretty common for the rich kids on the upper east side of Manhattan, but nowhere near standard dress for ethnic working-class white kids in Queens. Nana and mom had different ideas... -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 21 15:10:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iALKAqne026306 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 15:10:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iALKAJJo013573 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 21 Nov 2004 13:10:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iALKAESl019329; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 13:10:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iALK8qNp018532 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 13:08:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA20925 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 15:19:36 -0600 Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 15:19:35 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Skeleton Suit and Boy dresses In-Reply-To: <20041121183913.36213.qmail@web41808.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sun, 21 Nov 2004, Melody Watts wrote: > He had the pictures to prove it, dress and curly blond > ringlets,apparently he liked to whip out the photos to > make his story, ... > She ,the woman, is now in a board & care for alzheimer > so her time frame might have been off, but yes I saw > the boy in the gown....a real cutie Oh, I wasn't questioning the story at all, just trying to nail down the period. Sounds like he was a child rather earlier than the 20s. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 21 15:13:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iALKDUmk026333 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 15:13:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iALKCuJo013733 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 21 Nov 2004 13:12:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iALKCrkb020761; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 13:12:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iALKCJK5020366 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 13:12:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1CVy48-0001vS-6l for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 20:12:08 +0000 Message-ID: <0CifwRDSaPoBJwRr@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 20:12:02 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boys Skeleton suit References: <155.44206063.2ed0b212@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <155.44206063.2ed0b212@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U () X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO AnnBWass@aol.com wrote >In a message dated 11/19/2004 10:51:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, >cathy@thyrsus.com writes: >It seems to have been an excuse to celebrate >a giant step toward "becoming a man." >And, if a family was wealthy and of the horsy sort, also the ago of a boy's >first pony. >Ann Wass From a much earlier period, one of my favourite songs is Purcell's "Sound the Trumpet" from the Duke of Gloucester's Birthday Ode. It celebrates how manly and warlike the prince is. It turns out it was his sixth birthday, so I reckon it must have been for his breeching. It's a rather sweet image when you know that, as the song says how he likes to hear drums and trumpets and wave a spear. Sadly, this was the only son of Queen Anne to survive infancy, and he died at the age of 11. Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 21 15:22:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iALKMiOW026408 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 15:22:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iALKLPJo014122 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 21 Nov 2004 13:21:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iALKLJe9025773; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 13:21:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iALKLGYQ025741 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 13:21:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jacquelinejbump@gmail.com) Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id q1so162513rnf for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 12:21:16 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=BxXplx4QcGJA82A2sA0kg7LWsglwsDMtNt4AilE1eEd1LaUIotRh/YRwMR/WQS0VUGiWR2LslKkrNs0DAzToLgcZeb29R5KU4R7ZgnoxoINXPoQm7JPEoo4SHsxj4QWkdHhvjtZEXwMvB/Ec4iJ/RCd5tL+QIBJ9SCnjQybci0s= Received: by 10.38.150.46 with SMTP id x46mr543224rnd; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 12:21:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.38.14.59 with HTTP; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 12:21:15 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4c5accc8041121122145e21f30@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 15:21:15 -0500 From: Jacqueline Johnson To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boys Skeleton suit In-Reply-To: <0CifwRDSaPoBJwRr@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <155.44206063.2ed0b212@aol.com> <0CifwRDSaPoBJwRr@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have a picture of Prince Johnnie in a dress from the early 1900's http://pics.livejournal.com/jaie/pic/000dx5c7/ And I know my grandfather born in 1920 wore them as well we have pictures someplace. My own son Tarquin who is now 13 also wore boy dresses and kilts (although he'd kill me for telling about that) -- ============================ http://stores.ebay.com/Kristalori eBay store now open!! Effluvia and other Ephemera. ============================ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 21 16:48:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iALLmYL2026919 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 16:48:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iALLkdJo018629 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 21 Nov 2004 14:46:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iALLkTNP075673; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 14:46:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-118.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.118]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iALLkRMa075613 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 14:46:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by mail.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB58D425D6 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 17:18:50 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <41A10C9B.5080207@reddawn.net> Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 15:46:03 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for 'renaissance' fabric References: <41A0CBB9.1090806@reddawn.net> <41A0CE06.6060804@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: <41A0CE06.6060804@thibault.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Dawn wrote: > >> Does anyone here either have 15 yards of yellow/gold lining, or know >> of a website that sells something appropriate for renaissance >> costuming? I'm about to go blind searching. > > > What's your price point? Woven pattern or flat? > I'd like a natural fiber, cotton blend is ok. I'm hoping to find something under $7 a yard in a woven pattern, but I'm getting to that desperate stage.... I didn't want dupioni, but it may be the only thing I can find in that color. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 21 16:57:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iALLvoEa026978 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 16:57:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iALLuCJo019226 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 21 Nov 2004 14:56:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iALLu81f081468; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 14:56:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iALLu6is081221 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 14:56:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gia_gavino@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.111 (rwcrwbc15.attbi.com[204.127.197.125]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <20041121215600013004o1qre>; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 21:56:00 +0000 Received: from [24.16.244.181] by 204.127.197.111; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 21:56:00 +0000 From: gia_gavino@comcast.net (Elena O'Tighearnaigh) To: h-costume@indra.com (Costume Historical) Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 21:56:00 +0000 Message-Id: <112120042156.14570.41A10EF000002928000038EA2205886172010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Nov 11 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: Z2lhX2dhdmlub0Bjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Yellow/gold fabric? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Below is a link to a fabric. Not sure if the color tone is what you are looking for. http://fabrics-store.com/first.phpgoto=big_fabric&menu=f&menu=f&fabric_id=418 -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 21 18:52:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iALNqgT8027896 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 18:52:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iALNptJo004439 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 21 Nov 2004 16:51:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iALNpkr3051876; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 16:51:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iALNpiQC051796 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 16:51:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m50.in-tch.com [216.166.191.50]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id iALNnkx27389 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 16:49:46 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <41A12B23.2050706@in-tch.com> Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 16:56:19 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for 'renaissance' fabric References: <41A0CBB9.1090806@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: <41A0CBB9.1090806@reddawn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't have anything like 15 yds, but I do have a partial roll of bright gold satin originally intended for coat linings (so it's pretty sturdy). I bought it years and YEARS ago to use as linings for SCA clothes, and have since changed styles/time periods..... --sue Dawn wrote: > I'm just about to give up in frustration. I'm looking for a fabric > suitable for use as a lining for a houpellande, you know, with the big > sleeves that show. I need about 15 yards to complete several garments. I > need it in gold or yellow. I've hit local shops, and not so local shops, > and every internet site I could find and I'm not having any luck. I > really want to get these outfits done by Christmas and I am running out > of time fast. > > Does anyone here either have 15 yards of yellow/gold lining, or know of > a website that sells something appropriate for renaissance costuming? > I'm about to go blind searching. > > > Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 21 19:11:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAM0B40V028021 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 19:11:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAM0ATJo005573 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 21 Nov 2004 17:10:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAM0ANXL063114; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 17:10:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail5.mdx.safepages.com (mail5.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAM0ALmo062948 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 17:10:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail5.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 4F0441CBA16; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 00:10:08 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust27.tnt2.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.178.27]) by mail5.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E286A1CBA08 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 00:10:03 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <003101c4d027$abc2aa60$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <41A0CBB9.1090806@reddawn.net> <41A0CE06.6060804@thibault.org> <41A10C9B.5080207@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for 'renaissance' fabric Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 18:10:25 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://www.denverfabrics.com has a few gold/yellow silks (unpatterned, though) that might work, for $6 and $7/yd, as well as ditto in linen. I've been thinking of ordering this light gold silk: http://snipurl.com/asuc which is listed among the twills, so probably reasonably accurate; it's pretty thin so it looks decent for linings. If you get it, I hope there's more than 15 yards in stock so I can get some too. =} (I've been looking for a patterned gold 100% silk and so far the only one I like is $48/yd! Sigh.) -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 21 19:47:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAM0lYB2028185 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 19:47:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAM0kqJo008005 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 21 Nov 2004 17:46:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAM0kktX084032; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 17:46:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.130] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAM0kiBL083985 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 17:46:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D58722F159 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 18:46:42 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t4p428.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.223.174]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id D0E85C5C4 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 18:46:41 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] looking for 'renaissance' fabric Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 18:47:03 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My $1 worth. As was recommended, try the fabricstore.com. Look for "the linen look" fabric for lining of a houppelande. The houppelande is not technically, from my understanding, "renaissance" but late medieval. I have not seen in pictures with houppelandes, the lining being of brocade material. Of coarse I have not seen all the pictures that are out there with houppelandes on them. I am not familiar with dupioni silk. If it is shlubby like shantung it is not the right type of silk to use for lining as the fabric would not have the rough folksy look to it in the middle ages. De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 21 20:09:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAM19Vwq028265 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 20:09:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAM18mJo009388 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 21 Nov 2004 18:08:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAM18ehR096833; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 18:08:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAM18Y6B096746 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 18:08:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id iAM14ITA000881 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 20:04:18 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 20:04:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <41A13C10.3080804@thibault.org> Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 20:08:32 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for 'renaissance' fabric (houp) References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO otsisto wrote: > I have not seen in pictures with houppelandes, the lining being of brocade > material. Of coarse I have not seen all the pictures that are out there with > houppelandes on them. You are right -- they are rare, but they are there. Some theorize that the fur linings were switched with fabric for the summer. Not unlike a trench coat that has a zip-out furry liner for the winter. ;) Here are some bad scans; the first one shows a blue fabric lining with flowers or something woven or embroidered on it: http://www.virtue.to/articles/images/1400s_Devonshire.jpg -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent The latin word 'carpe' is principally an agricultural term meaning to harvest, pluck, or gather. So the phrase should really be translated as 'harvest the day,' which is a lot more laid back than 'seize the day.' -- Alex Boese _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 21 21:14:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAM2Ect0028639 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 21:14:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAM2DpJo015645 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 21 Nov 2004 19:13:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAM2DgmN039187; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 19:13:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web52801.mail.yahoo.com (web52801.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.165]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iAM2Ddej039089 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 19:13:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kjp1685@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 28593 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Nov 2004 02:13:33 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=moT7UEqXPfApSFP820PIA04KUddNrN2VdLHuOQdZYf5viSC9x0llWLIYQ1rp69KmB81OZcIANlIiawZT7KA9E85+ms0G01dfz0vpRWTKOeh/c6pTpxCUMNYUwrXn7qPn0MHhXlN/Mow4QsCf3+voh3y13SahNH69pz1C7relvoU= ; Message-ID: <20041122021333.28591.qmail@web52801.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [198.248.212.19] by web52801.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 18:13:33 PST Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 18:13:33 -0800 (PST) From: Kathryn Parke To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <011201c4d005$70cf1550$3b399b04@HELENPINTO> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Medival belts? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello, all -- I hope you can help me with a rather “lowbrow” question! I’ve been asked to help costume a madrigal dinner, and the costumes in stock range from outfits resembling houppelandes and cotehardies, to dresses that replicate Elizabeth’s court (more or less), to choir robes with some trim to dress them up a bit. Good enough for a week and a half to go! In any event, I have several Period Patterns, including the one with houpelandes of various lengths, for both men and women. They are shown belted and unbelted, but the short ones especially would look just dumpy if they were unbelted. However, I can’t get a clear picture as to how to fabricate a medieval (or at least “implied medieval”) belt. Did they have buckles? If not, how did they fasten? Some of the men’s belts seem almost to be simple strips of leather that seemed to have a loop at one end, through which the other end was passed a couple of times and then allowed to hang down -- does that make sense? Obviously, we’re not too worried about accuracy at this point -- but I certainly don’t want anyone wandering around the floor with a turquoise-studded silver cowboy buckle! Thanks in advance for any advice you can offer -- Kathryn Parke _______________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 21 21:28:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAM2Sqno028721 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 21:28:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAM2S7Jo016366 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 21 Nov 2004 19:28:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAM2S3NW046715; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 19:28:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.67]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAM2S2ox046697 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 19:28:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jaurbik@optonline.net) Received: from [192.168.0.100] (ool-18bde58e.dyn.optonline.net [24.189.229.142]) by mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTP id <0I7K00C776UO64@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 21:28:00 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 21:27:17 -0500 From: J Schueller In-reply-to: <20041122021333.28591.qmail@web52801.mail.yahoo.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <41A14E85.9020100@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) References: <20041122021333.28591.qmail@web52801.mail.yahoo.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Male Counter-point to Flemish Dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all. I have FINALLY finished with my first flemish working women's outfit (except for the sleves and partlet) and was thinking it would be cool to make my husnabd the male counterpoint to my garb (but NOT matching!). Has anyone done anything indepth about the males who show up in the varius painting that the flemish ladies are in? I know there are some males, and they look fairly typical, but i have never done thatmuch with costuming. Jordana _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 21 21:47:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAM2loxJ028811 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 21:47:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAM2lAJo018489 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 21 Nov 2004 19:47:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAM2l6lX059207; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 19:47:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAM2l349059183 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 19:47:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id iAM2giTA002654 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 21:42:44 -0500 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 21:42:43 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <41A15322.4000003@thibault.org> Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 21:46:58 -0500 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medival belts? References: <20041122021333.28591.qmail@web52801.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20041122021333.28591.qmail@web52801.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kathryn Parke wrote: > Did they have buckles? Yes, pretty much universally. The extremely rigid belts that were worn with cotehardies are a special case, but otherwise a men's dress leather belt from the thrift store would serve you well for this purpose. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent The latin word 'carpe' is principally an agricultural term meaning to harvest, pluck, or gather. So the phrase should really be translated as 'harvest the day,' which is a lot more laid back than 'seize the day.' -- Alex Boese _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 21 21:51:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAM2pMbK028842 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 21:51:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAM2ojJo018748 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 21 Nov 2004 19:50:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAM2ojKO060731; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 19:50:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web52806.mail.yahoo.com (web52806.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.170]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iAM2ohgl060684 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 19:50:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kjp1685@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 18681 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Nov 2004 02:50:38 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=GcFjOrwEc5A2WvYHFJkQb2EPps/Xe2u/t46vWltT6OoMSATKwSI//sPYY5uGvAUFgQsS4rGBJ/M5YmSDsqQVOlczr9+tPciLQuq+KxJ3gxUHnAxIQnkI8jGg8n2gtsJF7JoeQc2CVNWnmmu60ncRhiOXPCl53VcFCHq8T7Z/E20= ; Message-ID: <20041122025038.18679.qmail@web52806.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [198.248.212.19] by web52806.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 18:50:37 PST Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 18:50:37 -0800 (PST) From: Kathryn Parke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medival belts? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <41A15322.4000003@thibault.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO FABULOUS! And thank you for overlooking my spelling error in the heading -- how mortifying! :) KP --- Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Kathryn Parke wrote: > > > Did they have buckles? > > Yes, pretty much universally. The extremely rigid > belts that were worn > with cotehardies are a special case, but otherwise a > men's dress leather > belt from the thrift store would serve you well for > this purpose. > > -- > Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent > > The latin word 'carpe' is principally an > agricultural term meaning to > harvest, pluck, or gather. So the phrase should > really be translated as > 'harvest the day,' which is a lot more laid back > than 'seize the day.' > -- Alex Boese > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! http://my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 21 21:58:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAM2wLgo028888 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 21:58:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAM2vJJo019227 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 21 Nov 2004 19:57:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAM2vEJg063708; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 19:57:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta206-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta206-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.58]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAM2vAq4063641 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 19:57:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.140]) by mta206-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20041122025704.TARQ17352.mta206-rme.xtra.co.nz@pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 15:57:04 +1300 Received: from [10.1.1.3] ([222.152.201.54]) by pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20041122025704.QXLS27493.pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[10.1.1.3]> for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 15:57:04 +1300 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.289 [265.4.1]); Mon, 22 Nov 2004 15:57:13 +1300 Message-ID: <000d01c4d03e$f785b020$0301010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20041122021333.28591.qmail@web52801.mail.yahoo.com> <41A14E85.9020100@optonline.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Male Counter-point to Flemish Dress Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 15:57:10 +1300 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I have FINALLY finished with my first flemish working women's outfit > (except for the sleves and partlet) and was thinking it would be cool to > make my husnabd the male counterpoint to my garb (but NOT matching!). > Has anyone done anything indepth about the males who show up in the > varius painting that the flemish ladies are in? I know there are some > males, and they look fairly typical, but i have never done thatmuch with > costuming. I personally haven't but there was a site directed to my Frazzled Frau list (and probably some others) that does deal with this. http://members.rogers.com/lyndscadian/Men.htm Not in depth as such, but a nice survey of clothes in the various paintings. michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.1 - Release Date: 19/11/2004 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 21 23:46:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAM4kUuP029349 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 23:46:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAM4jRJo025141 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 21 Nov 2004 21:45:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAM4jJ5R008110; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 21:45:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-118.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.118]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAM4jDKm008020 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 21:45:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (js.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by mail.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B4CD425D5 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 00:17:38 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <41A16EC5.4050806@reddawn.net> Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 22:44:53 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Male Counter-point to Flemish Dress References: <20041122021333.28591.qmail@web52801.mail.yahoo.com> <41A14E85.9020100@optonline.net> In-Reply-To: <41A14E85.9020100@optonline.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO J Schueller wrote: > Has anyone done anything indepth about the males who show up in the > varius painting that the flemish ladies are in? I have a page in progress here: http://www.reddawn.net/costume/peasant.htm I'm about half done with presenting sources and identifying the details and suggesting methods of reproducing the clothing. This page has not been linked to my costuming site yet. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 22 04:30:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAM9UVVd005671 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 04:30:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAM9TiJo009843 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 22 Nov 2004 02:29:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAM9TUnR051143; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 02:29:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAM9TMc7050829 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 02:29:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id iAM9Sn207499.; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 09:28:49 GMT Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 09:28:49 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 09:28:30 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Skeleton Suit Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> dluckham@sympatico.ca 20/11/2004 15:52:48 > >I've been reading with great interest all of the Boy's Skeleton suit >posts. I'm interested though in the term "breeched" being used with >the skeleton suit. It has always been my understanding that the >'skeleton suit' along with the 'tunic suit' were transitional styles of >clothing for the very young and did not quite classify as being >"breeched". Well, the term "breeched" obviously goes back to the period when knee-breeches were standard male attire, long before special clothes for children were invented. _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 22 12:27:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAMHRHJX028489 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:27:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAMHQaJo023770 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 22 Nov 2004 10:26:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAMHQFOt065678; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 10:26:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mwinf0208.wanadoo.fr (smtp2.wanadoo.fr [193.252.22.29]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAMHQAiR065470 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 10:26:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from liara@wanadoo.fr) Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf0208.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with SMTP id 75E0318000B7 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 18:26:01 +0100 (CET) Received: from wwinf0202 (wwinf0202 [172.22.133.29]) by mwinf0208.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 67EAB1800166 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 18:26:01 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <30424334.1101144361401.JavaMail.www@wwinf0202> From: Rhianna To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: [193.51.16.213] X-WUM-FROM: |~| X-WUM-TO: |~| X-WUM-REPLYTO: |~| Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 18:26:01 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Riding Habit pattern X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello everyone, Does anyone know a good pattern for a XVIIIth century riding habit? I know that Mill Farm has one, but if someone can point me in a better direction, or has already tried this one or another, I'll be glad to know... Any piece of advice is more than welcome ;) By the way, it doesn't have to be fully accurate, just give the general "right" feeling. Thank you all, Mathilde _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 22 12:53:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAMHrrHL028741 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:53:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAMHqwJo026676 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 22 Nov 2004 10:52:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAMHqotP094137; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 10:52:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iAMHqKUr093683 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 10:52:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Nov 2004 17:52:14 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041122175027.01491ef0@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 17:52:24 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Riding Habit pattern In-Reply-To: <30424334.1101144361401.JavaMail.www@wwinf0202> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 18:26 22/11/2004 +0100, you wrote: >Hello everyone, >Does anyone know a good pattern for a XVIIIth century riding habit? >I know that Mill Farm has one, but if someone can point me in a better >direction, or has already tried this one or another, I'll be glad to >know... Any piece of advice is more than welcome ;) By the way, it doesn't >have to be fully accurate, just give the general "right" feeling. >Thank you all, >Mathilde There's a riding habit in Janet Arnold "Patterns of Fashion 1660-1860" but it may be a bit late for you - it's about 1790 IIRC. I have a funny feeling there may be an earlier one too, but the brain is mush at the moment, and I don't have the book to hand. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 22 13:58:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAMIwNLw029217 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 13:58:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAMIvMJo004442 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 22 Nov 2004 11:57:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAMIvBLm054781; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 11:57:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m22.mx.aol.com (imo-m22.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAMIv7PU054619 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 11:57:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.158.446a7d4a (16335) for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 13:56:46 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <158.446a7d4a.2ed3906e@aol.com> Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 13:56:46 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Riding Habit pattern To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6036 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/22/2004 12:53:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, suzi@suziclarke.co.uk writes: > I have a funny feeling > there may be an earlier one too, but the brain is mush at the moment, and I > don't have the book to hand. > There is. A riding/traveling outfit...well Jacket..circa 1760 I think. It's the basis for Glenn Close's yellow and black carriage outfit in "Dangerous Liaisons". It has that Oh-so-period horizontal dart just at top-of-the-corset height at the CF opening. I'm sure some of those pattern companies that take it from Janet Arnold has it already sized and drawn out. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 22 14:06:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAMJ6dwV029263 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 14:06:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAMJ5lJo005450 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:05:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAMJ5cUA062546; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:05:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ranger.systems.pipex.net (ranger.systems.pipex.net [62.241.162.32]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAMJ0kdW057761 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:00:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from linda.walton@dsl.pipex.com) Received: from bella (81-86-114-151.dsl.pipex.com [81.86.114.151]) by ranger.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with SMTP id BE541E0001E7 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 19:00:28 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <004201c4d0c5$8e48ffe0$97725651@bella> From: "Linda Walton" To: Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 19:00:38 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Fw: Scalamandre X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thought I'd pass on this:- > > Scalamandré, the 75-year-old company known for extravagant fabrics, is > moving from Long Island City in Queens to South Carolina next year and will > sell thousands of artifacts before it goes. In addition to 8,000 yards of > fabric ($25 a yard), the inventory includes 2 dobby looms (right), 10 > trimming looms and 11 jacquard looms ($5,000 to $12,000). Tickets for Early > Buyer Days (Nov. 29 to Dec. 1) are $100 through an Internet auction; > Discount Buyer Day tickets (Dec. 2 to 4) are $50. Bulk Buying Days (Dec. 6 > to 10) are free; 37-19 23rd Street, Long Island City. Information: > www.scalamandre.com, (800) 508-0022. ELAINE LOUIE > > > _______________________________________________ > > Scalamandre -- moving? This > company wove, among others, the material for the White House. The company > was based on the great weaving houses of Italy (as I remember it). > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 22 14:07:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAMJ7uGs029276 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 14:07:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAMJ7EJo005596 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:07:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAMJ7Ec6063952; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:07:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m19.mx.aol.com (imo-m19.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.11]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAMJ7C9A063840 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:07:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Kitsune242@aol.com) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-m19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.15.388f1246 (15901); Mon, 22 Nov 2004 14:06:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from aol.com (mow-m01.webmail.aol.com [64.12.184.129]) by air-id09.mx.aol.com (v103.7) with ESMTP id MAILINID94-3e1d41a238d1274; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 14:06:57 -0500 Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 14:06:57 -0500 From: Kitsune242@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com, ssmcsmith@ucdavis.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <3DC2ACEC.220D859D.0BD9917F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 169.237.109.158 X-AOL-Language: english Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Slightly O.T.-Embroiderer's Guild of America X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings All! First, I want to apologize to anyone who gets this twice. Second, Does anyone here know anything about the Embroiderer's Guild of America? Has anyone taken any of the the Correspondence courses from them? Is it worth the time and money? If you could contact me off-line, I would appreciate any information you can give me. Thank you, Kit -- Kit If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - Kenneth Cole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 22 14:10:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAMJA8dt029291 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 14:10:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAMJ9PJo005803 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:09:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAMJ9MqP065734; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:09:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAMJ7gON064208 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:07:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.13) id A8F443D700A6; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 14:07:32 -0500 Received: from 209.131.81.104 ([209.131.81.104] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 22 Nov 04 19:07:31 -0000 Message-ID: <001101c4d0c6$8f0b4900$685183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <30424334.1101144361401.JavaMail.www@wwinf0202> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Riding Habit pattern Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 14:07:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0447-1, 11/19/2004), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hasn't one of the major pattern companies done one recently...if it doesn't need to be 100% accurate? I think the jacket is developed from the right number of pieces. If you throw the shoulder over to the back it will sit more appropriately. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rhianna" To: Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 12:26 PM Subject: [h-cost] Riding Habit pattern > > Hello everyone, > Does anyone know a good pattern for a XVIIIth century riding habit? > I know that Mill Farm has one, but if someone can point me in a better direction, or has already tried this one or another, I'll be glad to know... Any piece of advice is more than welcome ;) By the way, it doesn't have to be fully accurate, just give the general "right" feeling. > Thank you all, > Mathilde > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 22 14:11:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAMJB0Zl029295 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 14:11:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAMJA6Jo005885 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:10:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAMJA5pm066339; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:10:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.202]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iAMJ8wPh065348 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:09:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Nov 2004 19:08:52 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041122190532.01492010@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 19:09:02 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Riding Habit pattern In-Reply-To: <158.446a7d4a.2ed3906e@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 13:56 22/11/2004 -0500, you wrote: >In a message dated 11/22/2004 12:53:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, >suzi@suziclarke.co.uk writes: > > > I have a funny feeling > > there may be an earlier one too, but the brain is mush at the moment, > and I > > don't have the book to hand. > > > >There is. A riding/traveling outfit...well Jacket..circa 1760 I think. It's >the basis for Glenn Close's yellow and black carriage outfit in "Dangerous >Liaisons". It has that Oh-so-period horizontal dart just at top-of-the-corset >height at the CF opening. > >I'm sure some of those pattern companies that take it from Janet Arnold has >it already sized and drawn out. Many of the costumes made for "Dangerous Liaisons" were made by girls who were students of Jean Hunnisett and Janet Arnold, which is why those costumes actually have the right "feel" about them. I am suspicious of some of the pattern companies who use copies of Janet's drawings, and the ones done by Janette Haslam for the Hunnisett books, as the angles are so similar. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 22 14:17:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAMJHZSK029343 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 14:17:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAMJGsJo006590 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:16:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAMJGmHd072593; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:16:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAMJGjD6072547 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:16:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jacquelinejbump@gmail.com) Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id q1so240644rnf for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 11:16:45 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=P3tGkPoXLkEhKl2fHm/oIaZmGqcXneQZaEpzEK93SMMTaLqrClCGgzKguvhH//X39bgQcxVLumKCYHo747VS5xqzLSeZQxcmvsEnSQIFgRdRzjkRsSTRZ0cOU/ts2E2v6iEUaegrxlvolGmoMNPW56qDJ4xJJmblMcyZMelnUqM= Received: by 10.38.77.37 with SMTP id z37mr976318rna; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 11:16:44 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.38.14.59 with HTTP; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 11:16:43 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4c5accc8041122111649c1a822@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 14:16:43 -0500 From: Jacqueline Johnson To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Riding Habit pattern In-Reply-To: <001101c4d0c6$8f0b4900$685183d1@rmitchellras> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <30424334.1101144361401.JavaMail.www@wwinf0202> <001101c4d0c6$8f0b4900$685183d1@rmitchellras> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rhianna" > To: > Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 12:26 PM > Subject: [h-cost] Riding Habit pattern > > > > > Hello everyone, > > Does anyone know a good pattern for a XVIIIth century riding habit? > > I know that Mill Farm has one, but if someone can point me in a better > direction, or has already tried this one or another, I'll be glad to know... > Any piece of advice is more than welcome ;) By the way, it doesn't have to > be fully accurate, just give the general "right" feeling. > > Thank you all, > > Mathilde There are a few out there. http://www.patternsoftime.com/patterns/Millfarm/Mill%20Farm%2015.jpg $16.00 http://www.patternsoftime.com/cat57b.html http://www.patternsoftime.com/patterns/rh/rh194.jpg I think this one is Rocking Horse Farms http://www.patternsoftime.com/cat67.html http://www.patternsoftime.com/patterns/rh/rh151.jpg a colonial one. http://www.patternsoftime.com/cat54.html I think there's a couple others out there I want to say Jessamyne has one maybe. -- ============================ http://stores.ebay.com/Kristalori Period Patterns! ============================ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 22 14:24:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAMJOkHd029407 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 14:24:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAMJNvJo007416 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:23:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAMJNp0j079348; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:23:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAMJNmJ5079224 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:23:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.8.5c19ecfe (16335) for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 14:23:35 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <8.5c19ecfe.2ed396b7@aol.com> Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 14:23:35 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Riding Habit pattern To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6036 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/22/2004 2:10:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, suzi@suziclarke.co.uk writes: > Many of the costumes made for "Dangerous Liaisons" were made by girls who > were students of Jean Hunnisett and Janet Arnold, which is why those > costumes actually have the right "feel" about them. > Well, my only prob with "DL" is the Arnold stuff is English and mid century, whereas the story is French and supposed to be near the end of the century and much closer to the Revolution. But...hey...it's a top notch production. I worked on "Last of the Mohicans" with some of the cutters for "DL" and they are the BEST. But they do as they are told and James Acheson [who designed Mohicans but quit when Michael Mann drove him nuts] wants documentation of things and of course demands a mock up [usually in a fabric...which goes on an extra later] Alice's habit in "Mohicans" is from Arnold, and Cora's great habit was worked out from a photo of a jacket in some museum....I only saw a Xerox of it. I can't remember where it came from. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 22 14:39:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAMJdIRZ029505 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 14:39:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAMJc9Jo008871 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:38:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAMJc6E5092537; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:38:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.142]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iAMJbxhG092372 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:38:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Nov 2004 19:37:53 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041122193311.01491f08@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 19:38:04 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Riding Habit pattern In-Reply-To: <8.5c19ecfe.2ed396b7@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 14:23 22/11/2004 -0500, you wrote: >In a message dated 11/22/2004 2:10:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, >suzi@suziclarke.co.uk writes: > > > Many of the costumes made for "Dangerous Liaisons" were made by girls who > > were students of Jean Hunnisett and Janet Arnold, > >Well, my only prob with "DL" is the Arnold stuff is English and mid century, >whereas the story is French and supposed to be near the end of the century >and >much closer to the Revolution. But...hey...it's a top notch production. James Acheson designed "DL" too, as far as I know, and was determined on those styles - Glenn Close had only just had her baby, and was still feeding, so needed support, from what I was told by someone who worked on it. >I worked on "Last of the Mohicans" with some of the cutters for "DL" and they >are the BEST. But they do as they are told and James Acheson [who designed >Mohicans but quit when Michael Mann drove him nuts] wants documentation of >things and of course demands a mock up [usually in a fabric...which goes >on an >extra later] On everything - someone I know has done several films with him, and really enjoyed working for him, as he used the same books that she had used at college!! He seemed to like to have chapter and verse for every garment - more strength to him, say I. Better than some so called designers who wouldn't know a period accurate costume if it bit them in the a**!! One of my hobby horses - sorry! Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 22 15:46:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAMKkf97030080 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 15:46:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAMKjuJo016497 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 22 Nov 2004 13:45:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAMKjdrr055827; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 13:45:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAMKjPnr055684 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 13:45:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from goddessandqueen@gmail.com) Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id c16so297191rne for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:45:23 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=i1RhU6BuqvGsl0R6ywNM/EdGtU6wWDOPgFFNtJsoGpp4GIHx1ywoZGrLFxVdtvY9Qq+yZdIteWd7kMh8lOlbRliJOZfEzAYgV4iDDiKbu96jLFe54k7QFieBKzKOqB0/I9Qm9z2Xjur+PS5X3J3vaHYNIE3Nztl/hl2jEnSYez0= Received: by 10.38.72.23 with SMTP id u23mr176712rna; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:45:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.38.81.72 with HTTP; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:45:23 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <6107d9c1041122124566a796d7@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 14:45:23 -0600 From: pixel To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medival belts? In-Reply-To: <20041122021333.28591.qmail@web52801.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <011201c4d005$70cf1550$3b399b04@HELENPINTO> <20041122021333.28591.qmail@web52801.mail.yahoo.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 18:13:33 -0800 (PST), Kathryn Parke wrote: > Hello, all -- > > I hope you can help me with a rather "lowbrow" > question! I've been asked to help costume a madrigal > dinner, and the costumes in stock range from outfits > resembling houppelandes and cotehardies, to dresses > that replicate Elizabeth's court (more or less), to > choir robes with some trim to dress them up a bit. > Good enough for a week and a half to go! In any > event, I have several Period Patterns, including the > one with houpelandes of various lengths, for both men > and women. They are shown belted and unbelted, but > the short ones especially would look just dumpy if > they were unbelted. However, I can't get a clear > picture as to how to fabricate a medieval (or at least > "implied medieval") belt. Did they have buckles? If > not, how did they fasten? Some of the men's belts > seem almost to be simple strips of leather that seemed > to have a loop at one end, through which the other end > was passed a couple of times and then allowed to hang > down -- does that make sense? Obviously, we're not > too worried about accuracy at this point -- but I > certainly don't want anyone wandering around the floor > with a turquoise-studded silver cowboy buckle! > > Thanks in advance for any advice you can offer -- > > Kathryn Parke Yes, the belts have buckles. You buckle the belt then wrap the "tail" down and around behind the belt and then up and over and through itself (kind of like tying a necktie, but sideways) so it hangs straight down and shows off your nifty belt and belt-end. If you're thrift-store shopping, you want to look for narrower leather, 1" or less, the longest you can find, and simple buckles. Some examples: http://www.medievalwares.com/medieval_buckles.htm http://www.historicenterprises.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=58&c=8 Spiffy belts frequently have mounts on them, but that's probably a level of authenticity you don't need here. ;-) Margaret/Pixel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 22 16:22:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAMLM88w030643 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 16:22:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAMLGDJo019421 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 22 Nov 2004 14:16:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAMLG87J083148; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 14:16:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp801.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp801.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.138]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iAMLFqaN082831 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 14:16:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp801.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Nov 2004 21:15:46 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041122211404.01492030@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 21:15:42 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medival belts? In-Reply-To: <6107d9c1041122124566a796d7@mail.gmail.com> References: <20041122021333.28591.qmail@web52801.mail.yahoo.com> <011201c4d005$70cf1550$3b399b04@HELENPINTO> <20041122021333.28591.qmail@web52801.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 14:45 22/11/2004 -0600, you wrote: >On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 18:13:33 -0800 (PST), Kathryn Parke > wrote: > > Hello, all -- > > > > I hope you can help me with a rather "lowbrow" > > question! I've been asked to help costume a madrigal > > dinner, and the costumes in stock range from outfits > > resembling houppelandes and cotehardies, to dresses > > that replicate Elizabeth's court (more or less), to > > choir robes with some trim to dress them up a bit. > > Good enough for a week and a half to go! In any > > event, I have several Period Patterns, including the > > one with houpelandes of various lengths, for both men > > and women. They are shown belted and unbelted, but > > the short ones especially would look just dumpy if > > they were unbelted. However, I can't get a clear > > picture as to how to fabricate a medieval (or at least > > "implied medieval") belt. Did they have buckles? If > > not, how did they fasten? Some of the men's belts > > seem almost to be simple strips of leather that seemed > > to have a loop at one end, through which the other end > > was passed a couple of times and then allowed to hang > > down -- does that make sense? Obviously, we're not > > too worried about accuracy at this point -- but I > > certainly don't want anyone wandering around the floor > > with a turquoise-studded silver cowboy buckle! > > > > Thanks in advance for any advice you can offer -- > > > > Kathryn Parke > >Yes, the belts have buckles. You buckle the belt then wrap the "tail" >down and around behind the belt and then up and over and through >itself (kind of like tying a necktie, but sideways) so it hangs >straight down and shows off your nifty belt and belt-end. If you're >thrift-store shopping, you want to look for narrower leather, 1" or >less, the longest you can find, and simple buckles. > >Some examples: > >http://www.medievalwares.com/medieval_buckles.htm >http://www.historicenterprises.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=58&c=8 > >Spiffy belts frequently have mounts on them, but that's probably a >level of authenticity you don't need here. ;-) You might like to visit this site too. This lady loaned me a girdle, and Annie the Pedlar made the fittings. http://www.et-tu.com/ginab/cgi-bin/mods/gallery/gallery.cgi?view=list&gallery=girdles&col=4 www.anniethepedlar.com Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 22 16:58:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAMLwRuX030929 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 16:58:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAMLveJo023807 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 22 Nov 2004 14:57:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAMLvRKk020746; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 14:57:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m16.mx.aol.com (imo-m16.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.206]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAMLupP3020133 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 14:57:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Kitsune242@aol.com) Received: from Kitsune242@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.7e.5d3f2a1e (16086) for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 16:56:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from aol.com (mow-m03.webmail.aol.com [64.12.184.131]) by air-id10.mx.aol.com (v103.7) with ESMTP id MAILINID103-3ed641a26098293; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 16:56:40 -0500 Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 16:56:40 -0500 From: Kitsune242@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com (Historical Costume) Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for 'renaissance' fabric MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <6E6389CA.0E2C90EC.0BD9917F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 169.237.109.158 X-AOL-Language: english Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/21/2004 12:42:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, IceGirlNIN@aol.com writes: >On the other hand, if you're looking for linen, I know a >store in NYC that does mail-order and has linen for around >$3-5 a  yard.  Last I was there they had a rainbow of >colors, and if you want I'll  e-mail you their phone number > so that you can call and ask. Christine, Can you send me the information of the store in NYC? Kit If you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, do you get to keep them? - Kenneth Cole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 22 17:42:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAMMgFcg031271 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 17:42:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAMMfWJo028397 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 22 Nov 2004 15:41:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAMMfQE3058928; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 15:41:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAMMfKKD058667 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 15:41:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be83.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.131]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id E36F026285B for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 23:41:07 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <003a01c4d0e4$60116490$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 23:41:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] riding habits X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Well, my only prob with "DL" is the Arnold stuff is English and mid > century, > whereas the story is French and supposed to be near the end of the century > and > much closer to the Revolution. But...hey...it's a top notch production. Albertcat, Dont you think that a riding habbit could have ben a fossilised fashion as the court dress was? So that it was just as fashionable in that cut in the mid eighteenth as it would have ben in the 70ies? I know that the book was written in the 80ies, but the movie used fashion as it was in the 70ies. If it should have ben 80ies fashion, the panier hoops would be out of fashion, and they were used in the movie two. I am glad that they didnt follow the books years for fashion, i think it was perfect as it was. And by the way, they are putting up this play at a big theater here in Copenhagen, and i must go and see. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 22 17:44:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAMMiHOF031302 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 17:44:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAMMhcJo028607 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 22 Nov 2004 15:43:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAMMhbel060759; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 15:43:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from charlevoix.vervehosting.com (charlevoix.vervehosting.com [209.50.239.249]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAMMfoqk059237 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 15:41:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from historian@reconstructinghistory.com) Received: from bee-72-145.thebeenet.com ([209.204.72.145] helo=Kass) by charlevoix.vervehosting.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.43) id 1CWMsS-0002Z6-7a for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 17:41:45 -0500 From: To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Riding Habit pattern Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 17:41:41 -0500 Message-ID: <001501c4d0e4$7c57b460$9148ccd1@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: <30424334.1101144361401.JavaMail.www@wwinf0202> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - charlevoix.vervehosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - reconstructinghistory.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Others have given some great advice on patterns. But perhaps my photo essay will help too: http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/18thc/ridingjacket.html Kass Reconstructing History Patterns http://reconstructinghistory.com Join Our Pattern Discussion List: http://reconstructinghistory.com/mailman/listinfo/patterns_reconstructin ghistory.com -----Original Message----- From: Rhianna [mailto:liara@wanadoo.fr] Sent: 22 November 2004 12:26 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Riding Habit pattern Hello everyone, Does anyone know a good pattern for a XVIIIth century riding habit? I know that Mill Farm has one, but if someone can point me in a better direction, or has already tried this one or another, I'll be glad to know... Any piece of advice is more than welcome ;) By the way, it doesn't have to be fully accurate, just give the general "right" feeling. Thank you all, Mathilde _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 22 21:06:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAN26YUs032371 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 21:06:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAN25qJo017533 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 22 Nov 2004 19:05:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAN25dJK015574; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 19:05:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m19.mx.aol.com (imo-m19.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.11]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAN25b7L015509 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 19:05:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.90.516796ed (17079) for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 21:05:29 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <90.516796ed.2ed3f4e9@aol.com> Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 21:05:29 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] riding habits To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6036 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/22/2004 5:42:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: > Dont you think that a riding habbit could have ben a fossilised fashion as > the court dress was? Hmmmmm...interesting. In a way. It had for a VERY long time been styled like men's clothes but it still will follow the current fashion and silhouette for women...and men. Practically all the stuff in "DL" is based on English examples, but that's not so dreadful. James Acheson certainly gave the fabrics and details a continental flare. It's a beautiful movie that actually deserves its Oscar. And putting it in 1788 gives it political connotations that aren't really needed in the film. It's more fun when its personal not political. But, Hey....I thought you liked the clothes in "Jefferson in Paris"! ;-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 22 22:44:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAN3ixl1000502 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 22:44:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAN3iAJo023870 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 22 Nov 2004 20:44:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAN3i0An077577; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 20:44:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAN3hrHk077505 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 20:43:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iAN4m3wo013649 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 23:48:04 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medival belts? Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 22:59:55 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <011201c4d005$70cf1550$3b399b04@HELENPINTO> <20041122021333.28591.qmail@web52801.mail.yahoo.com> <6107d9c1041122124566a796d7@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <6107d9c1041122124566a796d7@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200411222259.55851.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday 22 November 2004 3:45 pm, pixel wrote: [snip] > Yes, the belts have buckles. You buckle the belt then wrap the "tail" > down and around behind the belt and then up and over and through > itself (kind of like tying a necktie, but sideways) so it hangs > straight down and shows off your nifty belt and belt-end. If you're > thrift-store shopping, you want to look for narrower leather, 1" or > less, the longest you can find, and simple buckles. > > Some examples: > > http://www.medievalwares.com/medieval_buckles.htm > http://www.historicenterprises.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=58&c=8 Billy and Charlie's also sells belts with mounts, probably cheaper than the above because their metalwork is all pewter: http://www.billyandcharlie.com/belts.html -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 23 00:33:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAN5XmU4000900 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 2004 00:33:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAN5WaJo000965 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 22 Nov 2004 22:32:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAN5WKXZ043137; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 22:32:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAN5WIAJ043103 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 22:32:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id iAN5WFdD000412 for ; Mon, 22 Nov 2004 21:32:15 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Medieval belts? Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 21:45:52 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <200411222259.55851.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO For those who want Loooong belts I found a source for both wide and narrow, finished and unfinished, with buckles or without (do it yourself) at my local leather/horse supply, Oregon Leather. They think they are reins for wagons or sulkies, or cinch straps for pack horses (means they would be perfect for squires and Minions!). The last one I bought was fully finished in a lovely cordovan red about 12 feet long. They ran $18-22 for finished with buckle and between $10-15 for unfinished (undyed, they had a smooth finish that would probably take color) with no buckle. Regina Romsey > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 23 03:44:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAN8iCaZ032751 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 2004 03:44:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAN8hWJo009754 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 23 Nov 2004 01:43:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAN8hLVF055120; Tue, 23 Nov 2004 01:43:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.67]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAN8hJnp055061 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 2004 01:43:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dannw@lycos.com) Received: from wfilter.us4.outblaze.com (wfilter.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.180]) by webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix) with QMQP id DB4111800223 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 2004 08:43:13 +0000 (GMT) X-OB-Received: from unknown (208.36.123.31) by wfilter.us4.outblaze.com; 23 Nov 2004 08:43:13 -0000 Received: by ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id B350DE5BC7; Tue, 23 Nov 2004 08:43:13 +0000 (GMT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from [81.144.218.66] by ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com with http for dannw@lycos.com; Tue, 23 Nov 2004 08:43:13 +0000 From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 08:43:13 +0000 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medival belts? X-Originating-Ip: 81.144.218.66 X-Originating-Server: ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com Message-Id: <20041123084313.B350DE5BC7@ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id iAN8hJnp055061 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Another merchant you might want to try, if you're looking for belts is http://www.fetteredcockpewters.com/ They do some nice belts and some very cheeky pewter pilgrim's badges. Cheers, Danielle ----- Original Message ----- From: pixel > On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 18:13:33 -0800 (PST), Kathryn Parke > wrote: > > Kathryn Parke > > Yes, the belts have buckles. You buckle the belt then wrap the "tail" > down and around behind the belt and then up and over and through > itself (kind of like tying a necktie, but sideways) so it hangs > straight down and shows off your nifty belt and belt-end. If you're > thrift-store shopping, you want to look for narrower leather, 1" or > less, the longest you can find, and simple buckles. > > Some examples: > > http://www.medievalwares.com/medieval_buckles.htm > http://www.historicenterprises.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=58&c=8 > > Spiffy belts frequently have mounts on them, but that's probably a > level of authenticity you don't need here. ;-) > > Margaret/Pixel -- _______________________________________________ Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 23 05:52:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iANAq1fn001570 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 2004 05:52:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iANAp7Jo026871 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 23 Nov 2004 03:51:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iANAp0jK025760; Tue, 23 Nov 2004 03:51:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iANAoxje025703 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 2004 03:50:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gia_gavino@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.111 (rwcrwbc15.attbi.com[204.127.197.125]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <2004112310505401400a43pke>; Tue, 23 Nov 2004 10:50:54 +0000 Received: from [24.16.244.181] by 204.127.197.111; Tue, 23 Nov 2004 10:50:53 +0000 From: gia_gavino@comcast.net (Elena O'Tighearnaigh) To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medival belts? Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 10:50:53 +0000 Message-Id: <112320041050.14091.41A3160D0003C8240000370B2205886172010207900E09A10E0709@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Nov 11 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: Z2lhX2dhdmlub0Bjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, I went to the 'Naughty Bit's' page and chuckled my way through.... -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > Another merchant you might want to try, if you're looking for belts is > http://www.fetteredcockpewters.com/ > > They do some nice belts and some very cheeky pewter pilgrim's badges. > > Cheers, > Danielle > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: pixel > > > On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 18:13:33 -0800 (PST), Kathryn Parke > > wrote: > > > > > > Kathryn Parke > > > > Yes, the belts have buckles. You buckle the belt then wrap the "tail" > > down and around behind the belt and then up and over and through > > itself (kind of like tying a necktie, but sideways) so it hangs > > straight down and shows off your nifty belt and belt-end. If you're > > thrift-store shopping, you want to look for narrower leather, 1" or > > less, the longest you can find, and simple buckles. > > > > Some examples: > > > > http://www.medievalwares.com/medieval_buckles.htm > > http://www.historicenterprises.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=58&c=8 > > > > Spiffy belts frequently have mounts on them, but that's probably a > > level of authenticity you don't need here. ;-) > > > > Margaret/Pixel > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages > http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC > =lycos10 > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 23 07:16:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iANCGfQU029363 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 2004 07:16:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iANCFwJo000879 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 23 Nov 2004 05:15:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iANCFi15074265; Tue, 23 Nov 2004 05:15:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com (imo-d23.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iANCFfeB074180 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 2004 05:15:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.141.39852f75 (3956) for ; Tue, 23 Nov 2004 07:15:34 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <141.39852f75.2ed483e6@aol.com> Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 07:15:34 EST To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5034 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/598/Sat Nov 20 15:30:09 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Advertising Images X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Someone mentioned the 1830s "pilgrim" a few days ago. Here is another mixed up image: Queen Anne Cordial Cherries ad in this month's "Woman's Day" (Dec. 7)--probably in other magazines too, says, "The holidays aren't the same without Queen Anne." It is accompanied by a photo Christmas card of a contemporary family, with Queen Elizabeth I right in the middle--well, maybe they really meant that--she ISN'T Queen Anne, after all! Anyway, there is no mistaking her--big ruff, white face, red hair, and all. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 23 08:11:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iANDBeb4030344 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 2004 08:11:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iANDAtJo004020 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 23 Nov 2004 06:10:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iANDApIk008146; Tue, 23 Nov 2004 06:10:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iANDAYNB008001 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 2004 06:10:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m92.in-tch.com [216.166.191.92]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id iAND8dx18483 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 2004 06:08:39 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <41A337E2.2060701@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 06:15:14 -0700 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Advertising Images References: <141.39852f75.2ed483e6@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <141.39852f75.2ed483e6@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, good lord, that's *awful.* Heck, it even merits a letter to the magazine. I wonder if they thought folks just wouldn't notice the difference in centuries if they got the country right? --sue, not sure if she should sorta laugh or shudder ;o) AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: > Someone mentioned the 1830s "pilgrim" a few days ago. > > Here is another mixed up image: > > Queen Anne Cordial Cherries ad in this month's "Woman's Day" (Dec. > 7)--probably in other magazines too, says, "The holidays aren't the same without Queen > Anne." It is accompanied by a photo Christmas card of a contemporary family, > with Queen Elizabeth I right in the middle--well, maybe they really meant > that--she ISN'T Queen Anne, after all! > Anyway, there is no mistaking her--big ruff, white face, red hair, and all. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 23 09:02:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iANE2NcC030696 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 2004 09:02:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iANE1SJo006770 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 23 Nov 2004 07:01:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iANE1JHl038364; Tue, 23 Nov 2004 07:01:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m27.mx.aol.com (imo-m27.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iANE1GD4038288 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 2004 07:01:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.1ca.2cf56dc3 (4560) for ; Tue, 23 Nov 2004 09:01:07 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <1ca.2cf56dc3.2ed49ca3@aol.com> Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 09:01:07 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Advertising Images To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5034 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/23/2004 8:12:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, mooncat@in-tch.com writes: Oh, good lord, that's *awful.* Heck, it even merits a letter to the magazine. I wonder if they thought folks just wouldn't notice the difference in centuries if they got the country right? I already e-mailed the candy company--we'll see if I get a response. (Also found an image of Queen Anne on the web and sent them the link.) Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 23 12:23:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iANHNme4032750 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 2004 12:23:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iANHN8Jo026286 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 23 Nov 2004 10:23:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iANHMoKI001588; Tue, 23 Nov 2004 10:22:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065c10.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065c10.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.184]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iANHMmNi001553 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 2004 10:22:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hardcorps@earthlink.net) Received: from ernie.psp.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.78.243]) by pop-a065c10.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CWeNL-0005Bz-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Nov 2004 09:22:47 -0800 Message-ID: <15150385.1101230567932.JavaMail.root@ernie.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 10:22:47 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: Frank and Tracy Thallas To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Advertising Images Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Maybe these ads are from the same company that did the "Northern Quilters" a few years ago (Northern is a brand of toilet tissue, allegedly quilted, for those who don't see US TV) - a number of cartoon ladies quilting the toilet paper, each using two great big knitting needles.... Liadain -----Original Message----- From: AnnBWass@aol.com Sent: Nov 23, 2004 5:15 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Advertising Images Someone mentioned the 1830s "pilgrim" a few days ago. Here is another mixed up image: Queen Anne Cordial Cherries ad in this month's "Woman's Day" (Dec. 7)--probably in other magazines too, says, "The holidays aren't the same without Queen Anne." It is accompanied by a photo Christmas card of a contemporary family, with Queen Elizabeth I right in the middle--well, maybe they really meant that--she ISN'T Queen Anne, after all! Anyway, there is no mistaking her--big ruff, white face, red hair, and all. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 23 17:42:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iANMgqAh003416 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 2004 17:42:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iANMfeJo001658 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 23 Nov 2004 15:41:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iANMfN8d087132; Tue, 23 Nov 2004 15:41:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mxsf42.cluster1.charter.net (mxsf42.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.174]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iANMfKFo086985 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 2004 15:41:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lotsofteapots@charter.net) Received: from mxip08.cluster1.charter.net (mxip08a.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.138]) by mxsf42.cluster1.charter.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iANMfEKC013881 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 2004 17:41:14 -0500 Received: from fep04.charter.net (HELO 209.225.8.224) (209.225.8.84) by mxip08.cluster1.charter.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2004 17:41:14 -0500 Message-Id: <3k77vr$dmnsqk@mxip08a.cluster1.charter.net> X-Ironport-AV: i="3.87,108,1099285200"; d="scan'208"; a="460059476:sNHT19777342" X-Mailer: Openwave WebEngine, version 2.8.12 (webedge20-101-197-20030912) From: To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Advertising image Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 22:41:14 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I saw that one! and my immediate thought was "that's not Anne, that Elizabeth! Duh!" :-) Rebecca Schmitt aka Agness Cabot _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 23 19:57:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAO0uxAQ005197 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 2004 19:57:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAO0ttJo014121 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 23 Nov 2004 17:55:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAO0ti9i091694; Tue, 23 Nov 2004 17:55:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAO0tgtG091665 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 2004 17:55:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from [192.168.167.41] (helo=wamui03.slb.atl.earthlink.net) by smtp6.mindspring.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CWlRc-00078D-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Nov 2004 19:55:40 -0500 Message-ID: <22728066.1101257740588.JavaMail.root@wamui03.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 19:55:40 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: ruthanneb@mindspring.com To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Job Opening (marginally OT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello the List. Someone out there might be interested in this job announcement, from the 19 November NEWTOWN BEE: Chief Editor THREADS magazine, the leading how-to publication for people who love to sew, is looking for an experienced journalist and avid garment sewer to lead its editorial team. Requires proven managerial experience, strong visual and editing skills, and knowledge of the sewing market. We offer a competitive salary, an excellent benefits package, and a pleasant work environment. 1-1/2 hours from New York City. Send letter, resume, and writing samples to HR The Taunton Press www.taunton.com Fax: 203-426-3503 63 S. Main Street, Box 5506 Newtown, CT 06470 An Equal Opportunity Employer They have a lot of turnover at Taunton Press, judging from their help-wanted ads. They advertised this same position two or three years ago; obviously they filled it, but it's open again. I applied last time and didn't even get a response, although I have practical credentials in journalism (but not magazine editorial) and a lot of sewing savvy. I might try again. Anyway, I think there are several people at least on this list who clearly could do the job and might want to move to Newtown, a pricey but charming old town where I direct at the community theater. If the salary is genuinely competitive for Fairfield County, it's got to be a pretty nice salary. Anyway, F.Y.I. --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 24 08:40:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAODeWBr002238 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2004 08:40:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAODdIJo029444 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 24 Nov 2004 06:39:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAODd3oL048745; Wed, 24 Nov 2004 06:39:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m19.mx.aol.com (imo-m19.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.11]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAODd1RA048671 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2004 06:39:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.a9.6749167d (3980) for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2004 08:38:53 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 08:38:53 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Advertising Images To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5034 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/23/2004 12:26:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, hardcorps@earthlink.net writes: Queen Anne Cordial Cherries ad in this month's "Woman's Day" (Dec. 7)--probably in other magazines too, says, "The holidays aren't the same without Queen Anne." It is accompanied by a photo Christmas card of a contemporary family, with Queen Elizabeth I right in the middle--well, maybe they really meant that--she ISN'T Queen Anne, after all! Anyway, there is no mistaking her--big ruff, white face, red hair, and all. I got an answer from my email to the candy company. The respondent said she was "impressed with my historical knowledge" and would forward my comments to the appropriate people--I presume it was their advertising agency that came up with this! Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 24 09:01:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAOE12FP002325 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2004 09:01:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAODxrJo000765 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 24 Nov 2004 06:59:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAODxnTw061457; Wed, 24 Nov 2004 06:59:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.199]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAODxlSL061371 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2004 06:59:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from irmgart@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 69so178382wri for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2004 05:59:32 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=AqSJ35EB6k0BrEOXF+ApVDkbLmUfmtW8X83SK5ACxv8NHzFrIlIIU2nNG02l/vMVjlIo76VcGPgpb/WBz94zHUjwAKpXETJ0PpLHxJy0xmF6RspwLfR+fqUNKVLbiQQNI9sVTHYZM9Zixdbvz3b8uksIWvECaw+w7XyzYTV1lyQ= Received: by 10.54.46.2 with SMTP id t2mr34214wrt; Wed, 24 Nov 2004 05:58:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.45.54 with HTTP; Wed, 24 Nov 2004 05:58:37 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 08:58:37 -0500 From: Irmgart Hasenschlaf To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Advertising Images In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO oh, thank god... I mean... http://www.yale.edu/yup/images/0300090242.jpg vs http://www.columbia.edu/itc/law/witt/images/lect2/queen_elizabeth_armada_portrait_fixed.jpg how could anyone mistake the two? On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 08:38:53 EST, annbwass@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/23/2004 12:26:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, > > > hardcorps@earthlink.net writes: > Queen Anne Cordial Cherries ad in this month's "Woman's Day" (Dec. > 7)--probably in other magazines too, says, "The holidays aren't the same > without Queen > Anne." It is accompanied by a photo Christmas card of a contemporary family, > with Queen Elizabeth I right in the middle--well, maybe they really meant > that--she ISN'T Queen Anne, after all! > Anyway, there is no mistaking her--big ruff, white face, red hair, and all. > I got an answer from my email to the candy company. The respondent said she > was "impressed with my historical knowledge" and would forward my comments to > the appropriate people--I presume it was their advertising agency that came up > with this! > > > > Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 24 09:02:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAOE2F4n002334 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2004 09:02:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAOE1MJo000899 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 24 Nov 2004 07:01:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAOE1Ipp062460; Wed, 24 Nov 2004 07:01:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (m2.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iAOE0gc2061947 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2004 07:00:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from seamstrix@juno.com) Received: from m2.nyc.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m2.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABA4KE96A5WXBW2 for (sender ); Wed, 24 Nov 2004 06:00:28 -0800 (PST) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: VlQqLyNLY6dl7D8HNF4VCpX44PS1LZP9rLbeCd1y0mYjh1RD3ViyAA== Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KC7455MF; Wed, 24 Nov 2004 05:59:43 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 07:52:39 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Advertising Images Message-ID: <20041124.075239.-298953.1.Seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 7-6,10-46,47-32767 From: seamstrix@juno.com X-ContentStamp: 13:6:2270821333 X-MAIL-INFO: 11672b7b437faa673e43ef4efbbf9b2b9a4e5a9b8a873e9bcfef2ebbf3bb335ed307afbbaacaaa77f7abaed3dbf74aafced3ca4ab38a1a4ab7c3de6a6f6a5b5f9ef3c76a0be70b931ea34b9e6e1ed7c7ba9ee7d7bf33ef7eef07132a07135ef7135ef7bf7f030e1f674bda4b435a3fa7834b87afc373f3736a8bea6a8b1ec78b1e X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Maybe if someone could post a scan of the pic on the web somewhere so we could all take a look at it and then write to the same person observing the same thing, the advertising agency might get the clue that there are people out there who DO know which English queen is which! Karen (attempting to stamp out corporate idiocy whenever possible) On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 08:38:53 EST AnnBWass@aol.com writes: > In a message dated 11/23/2004 12:26:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, > hardcorps@earthlink.net writes: > Queen Anne Cordial Cherries ad in this month's "Woman's Day" (Dec. > 7)--probably in other magazines too, says, "The holidays aren't the > same > without Queen > Anne." It is accompanied by a photo Christmas card of a > contemporary family, > with Queen Elizabeth I right in the middle--well, maybe they really > meant > that--she ISN'T Queen Anne, after all! > Anyway, there is no mistaking her--big ruff, white face, red hair, > and all. > I got an answer from my email to the candy company. The respondent > said she > was "impressed with my historical knowledge" and would forward my > comments to > the appropriate people--I presume it was their advertising agency > that came up > with this! > > Ann Wass > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 24 11:13:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAOGDV6O003101 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2004 11:13:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAOGCFJo018628 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 24 Nov 2004 09:12:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAOGC3PX058292; Wed, 24 Nov 2004 09:12:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAOGBvUE058111 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2004 09:11:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.191.32fc4649 (16930) for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2004 11:11:48 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <191.32fc4649.2ed60cc4@aol.com> Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 11:11:48 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Advertising Images To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5034 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/24/2004 9:02:02 AM Eastern Standard Time, seamstrix@juno.com writes: Maybe if someone could post a scan of the pic on the web somewhere so we could all take a look at it and then write to the same person observing the same thing, the advertising agency might get the clue that there are people out there who DO know which English queen is which! I think the candy company got the point, and of course I've no idea who set up the advertisement. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 24 14:14:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAOJEuqF004343 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2004 14:14:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAOJE6Jo026488 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 24 Nov 2004 12:14:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAOJDrNl034398; Wed, 24 Nov 2004 12:13:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from arkroyal.concentric.com (arkroyal.concentric.com [207.155.252.155]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAOJDoQG034352 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2004 12:13:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) Received: (root@localhost) by arkroyal.concentric.com id OAA15123; Wed, 24 Nov 2004 14:13:49 -0500 (EST) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.17] Message-ID: <200411241913.OAA15123@arkroyal.concentric.com> From: Julie To: Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 11:13:49 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <200411241903.iAOJ2Qbx018005@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id iAOJDoQG034352 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] corporate idiocy X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You have a lifetime job ahead of you. Just when you think you've made something idiot proof they come up with a better idiot . Julie > Karen > (attempting to stamp out corporate idiocy whenever possible) > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 24 18:48:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAONmoXb006054 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2004 18:48:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAONlhJo018203 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 24 Nov 2004 16:47:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAONlX19050128; Wed, 24 Nov 2004 16:47:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hall.mail.mindspring.net (hall.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.60]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAONlVfX050103 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2004 16:47:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) Received: from 209-165-51-114.jps.net ([209.165.51.114]) by hall.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1CX6rB-0000jO-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 24 Nov 2004 18:47:30 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <141.39852f75.2ed483e6@aol.com> References: <141.39852f75.2ed483e6@aol.com> Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 15:37:46 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Subject: Re: [h-cost] Advertising Images Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 7:15 AM -0500 11/23/04, AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: >Someone mentioned the 1830s "pilgrim" a few days ago. > >Here is another mixed up image: > >Queen Anne Cordial Cherries ad in this month's "Woman's Day" (Dec. >7)--probably in other magazines too, says, "The holidays aren't the >same without Queen >Anne." It is accompanied by a photo Christmas card of a contemporary family, >with Queen Elizabeth I right in the middle--well, maybe they really meant >that--she ISN'T Queen Anne, after all! >Anyway, there is no mistaking her--big ruff, white face, red hair, and all. Well, considering their brand name, they could hardly identify her as Queen anything-else-but-Anne, I suppose. It would kinda spoil the ad..... Maybe they just went with the first image that looked to them like an English Queen. Could have been worse if they'd picked, say, Boadicea.... . -- _________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | Davis, California - http://paternosters.blogspot.com + http://paternoster-row.org _________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 24 19:29:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAP0TRl6006262 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2004 19:29:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAP0SfJo021893 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 24 Nov 2004 17:28:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAP0SZ2h078395; Wed, 24 Nov 2004 17:28:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAP0SVBt078322 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2004 17:28:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.1a8.2bc7775c (18707) for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2004 19:28:25 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <1a8.2bc7775c.2ed68128@aol.com> Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 19:28:24 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Advertising Images To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5034 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/24/2004 6:51:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, claning@igc.org writes: Well, considering their brand name, they could hardly identify her as Queen anything-else-but-Anne, I suppose. It would kinda spoil the ad..... And I keep wondering if all through the photo shoot, they would say, "Okay, Queen Anne, go here, or do this," and not one of the folks in the photo (there were several!) knew the difference. Or, as you say, they just knew they had to accept it. My husband and I once went to a Halloween party at a bar. He was dressed as Pan. The MC kept calling him "Othello"--we figure he meant "Puck" but couldn't remember the right name. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 24 19:51:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAP0pu9l006359 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2004 19:51:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAP0pAJo023272 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 24 Nov 2004 17:51:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAP0p345092826; Wed, 24 Nov 2004 17:51:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d22.mx.aol.com (imo-d22.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.208]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAP0p1NH092754 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2004 17:51:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.159.44eda73c (4222) for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2004 19:50:53 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <159.44eda73c.2ed6866d@aol.com> Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 19:50:53 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Advertising Images To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/24/2004 7:29:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, AnnBWass@aol.com writes: > The MC kept calling him "Othello"--we figure he meant "Puck" but > couldn't remember the right name. > Oy! And as to the Queen Ann thing...Oy too! I used to do advertising and they really don't care or know most of the time. They're lucky they didn't use Queen Victoria....it would looked like a Bombay Gin ad. I had to get together an event when I worked in advertising, for a line of Mediterranean Renaissance furniture called "Pavane". I hired two dancers and a lutist and two recorder players [and a choreographer], designed and had made costumes for them, dressed a courtyard up beside the buffet and had them play and dance all day as potential buyers came through. Most buyers were like, "What's this got to do with anything?" which is OK but when I heard the company rep say "I don't know." I flipped. I very impatiently explained to him what a Pavane was. How can they be so stupid? What did they think it meant? Why did they name it that [I mean it was Med. Renn.] if they didn't know? I hate Advertising. I don't miss it. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 25 13:36:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAPIaKNJ005601 for ; Thu, 25 Nov 2004 13:36:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAPIZGJo001848 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 25 Nov 2004 11:35:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAPIZ3EA033475; Thu, 25 Nov 2004 11:35:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAPIZ1IH033384 for ; Thu, 25 Nov 2004 11:35:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03223 for ; Thu, 25 Nov 2004 13:45:45 -0600 Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 13:45:45 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Dress in Anglo-Saxon England X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO [Feel free to forward this message to other relevant lists, but please copy me in so I know where this message is going] Gale Owen-Crocker just e-mailed me with the news that her new edition of _Dress in Anglo-Saxon England_ has reached the publisher's warehouse. I'm guessing, then, it should be shipping on schedule or earlier (the official release date is Nov. 30). You can see a list of the contents, and order a copy, here: http://www.boydell.co.uk/43830817.HTM When it says "Revised and enlarged edition," that's an understatement. Those of you who already know the first edition as *the* word in dress in this period will be delighted by the wealth of new information -- including much archaeological evidence -- in this book. I have only seen bits and pieces so far, so I look forward to some surprises when I get to read the whole thing. Those of you who go to the International Medieval Congresses at Kalamazoo or Leeds should be able to get the book at conference discount, if you can wait that long ;-) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 25 15:20:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAPKKsB1006217 for ; Thu, 25 Nov 2004 15:20:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAPKJlJo008168 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 25 Nov 2004 13:19:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAPKJe9q083357; Thu, 25 Nov 2004 13:19:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from priv-edtnes27.telusplanet.net (outbound04.telus.net [199.185.220.223]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAPKJbLF083292 for ; Thu, 25 Nov 2004 13:19:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from edieann@telus.net) Received: from moms ([154.5.142.106]) by priv-edtnes27.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.02 201-2131-111-104-20040324) with SMTP id <20041125201931.INKZ7009.priv-edtnes27.telusplanet.net@moms> for ; Thu, 25 Nov 2004 13:19:31 -0700 Message-ID: <000d01c4d32a$80ee3b00$6a8e059a@bc.hsia.telus.net> From: "Edith Reardon" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dress in Anglo-Saxon England Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 12:08:17 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Checked it at Amazon.ca 52.50 can. Amazon.com 31.50 us, appears to be available now. Brin Kendall ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" To: "Historic Costume List" Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2004 11:45 AM Subject: [h-cost] Dress in Anglo-Saxon England [Feel free to forward this message to other relevant lists, but please copy me in so I know where this message is going] Gale Owen-Crocker just e-mailed me with the news that her new edition of _Dress in Anglo-Saxon England_ has reached the publisher's warehouse. I'm guessing, then, it should be shipping on schedule or earlier (the official release date is Nov. 30). You can see a list of the contents, and order a copy, here: http://www.boydell.co.uk/43830817.HTM When it says "Revised and enlarged edition," that's an understatement. Those of you who already know the first edition as *the* word in dress in this period will be delighted by the wealth of new information -- including much archaeological evidence -- in this book. I have only seen bits and pieces so far, so I look forward to some surprises when I get to read the whole thing. Those of you who go to the International Medieval Congresses at Kalamazoo or Leeds should be able to get the book at conference discount, if you can wait that long ;-) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 25 18:09:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAPN99iX007710 for ; Thu, 25 Nov 2004 18:09:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAPN81Jo018037 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 25 Nov 2004 16:08:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAPN7dat060027; Thu, 25 Nov 2004 16:07:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from charlevoix.vervehosting.com (charlevoix.vervehosting.com [209.50.239.249]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAPN7WJI059976 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 25 Nov 2004 16:07:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from historian@reconstructinghistory.com) Received: from bee-100-106.thebeenet.com ([216.83.100.106] helo=Kass) by charlevoix.vervehosting.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.43) id 1CXSi0-0003Yu-CB for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 25 Nov 2004 18:07:28 -0500 From: To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 18:07:29 -0500 Message-ID: <001101c4d343$8b993640$6a6453d8@Kass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - charlevoix.vervehosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - reconstructinghistory.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Manchester shift X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I wonder if anyone on the list has information on a woman's shift housed in the Gallery of English Costume in Manchester. The shift dates to 1700 or earlier and is pictured in figure 27 of the Cunnington's "The History of Underclothes". Nothing much is said about the shift, so I was wondering if anyone on this list has seen it in person or knows where else it might be discussed. I'm looking specifically for measurements of the pieces but I'd take any information that would help me make a reasonable replica of a shift of that time period. I might mention that I am *not* interested in earlier or later shifts at this time -- just any extant examples from circa 1670-1710. Thank you in advance for your help. Sincerely, Kass McGann Reconstructing History Patterns http://reconstructinghistory.com Join Our Pattern Discussion List: http://reconstructinghistory.com/mailman/listinfo/patterns_reconstructin ghistory.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 26 08:41:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQDfddx005953 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 08:41:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAQDedJo027743 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 26 Nov 2004 06:40:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQDeKpc034992; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 06:40:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQDeJXq034949 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 06:40:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA09977 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 08:51:06 -0600 Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 08:51:05 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dress in Anglo-Saxon England In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Following up my own post (below): An alert correspondent tells me that Amazon is selling this for $31.50. Great price for a hardback, and much cheaper than Boydell's $50 U.S. price, and better than the usual 20% discount for professional societies, conference attendees, etc. I am told the print run was 3,000, which is a lot for an academic book, but a small run by other standards. --Robin On Thu, 25 Nov 2004, Robin Netherton wrote: > > [Feel free to forward this message to other relevant lists, but please > copy me in so I know where this message is going] > > Gale Owen-Crocker just e-mailed me with the news that her new edition of > _Dress in Anglo-Saxon England_ has reached the publisher's warehouse. I'm > guessing, then, it should be shipping on schedule or earlier (the official > release date is Nov. 30). > > You can see a list of the contents, and order a copy, here: > > http://www.boydell.co.uk/43830817.HTM > > When it says "Revised and enlarged edition," that's an understatement. > Those of you who already know the first edition as *the* word in dress in > this period will be delighted by the wealth of new information -- > including much archaeological evidence -- in this book. I have only seen > bits and pieces so far, so I look forward to some surprises when I get to > read the whole thing. > > Those of you who go to the International Medieval Congresses at Kalamazoo > or Leeds should be able to get the book at conference discount, if you can > wait that long ;-) > > --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 26 11:04:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQG4mP9006721 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 11:04:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAQG3mJo005008 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 26 Nov 2004 09:03:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQG3XCa001672; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 09:03:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from relay02.roc.ny.frontiernet.net (relay02.roc.ny.frontiernet.net [66.133.131.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQG3PRD001583 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 09:03:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from homeec@telenet.net) Received: from filter02.roc.ny.frontiernet.net (filter02.roc.ny.frontiernet.net [66.133.131.177]) by relay02.roc.ny.frontiernet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5815B10234 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 16:03:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from relay02.roc.ny.frontiernet.net ([66.133.131.35]) by filter02.roc.ny.frontiernet.net (filter02.roc.ny.frontiernet.net [66.133.131.177]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 11061-05-57 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 16:03:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (67-51-235-73.dsl1.glv.ny.frontiernet.net [67.51.235.73]) by relay02.roc.ny.frontiernet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CA6D10224 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 16:03:20 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <41A753C1.4010908@telenet.net> Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 11:03:13 -0500 From: Home Ec User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dress in Anglo-Saxon England References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20040701 (2.0) at filter02.roc.ny.frontiernet.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And when you go look for this Dress in Anglo=Saxon England, YOUR book pops up as one of the Customers who shopped for this item also shopped for ..... * *Robin Netherton wrote: >Following up my own post (below): An alert correspondent tells me that >Amazon is selling this for $31.50. Great price for a hardback, and much >cheaper than Boydell's $50 U.S. price, and better than the usual 20% >discount for professional societies, conference attendees, etc. I am told >the print run was 3,000, which is a lot for an academic book, but a small >run by other standards. > >--Robin > > Customers who shopped for this item also shopped for these items: * Medieval Military Costume (Europa Militaria Special, 8) by Gerry Embleton * Medieval Clothing and Textiles 1 (Medieval Clothing and Textiles) by Robin Netherton _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 26 11:17:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQGHuGr006787 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 11:17:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAQGGcJo007534 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 26 Nov 2004 09:16:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQGGXrF008642; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 09:16:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQGGUtC008602 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 09:16:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11061 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 11:27:24 -0600 Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 11:27:23 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dress in Anglo-Saxon England In-Reply-To: <41A753C1.4010908@telenet.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 26 Nov 2004, Home Ec wrote: > And when you go look for this Dress in Anglo=Saxon England, YOUR book > pops up as one of the Customers who shopped for this item also shopped > for ..... No fair! It didn't for me! But see next post... --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 26 11:29:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQGTsoZ006866 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 11:29:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAQGTEJo010455 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 26 Nov 2004 09:29:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQGTBuF015194; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 09:29:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQGT89A015115 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 09:29:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11179; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 11:40:02 -0600 Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 11:40:00 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List , 75years List <75years@yahoogroups.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Medieval Clothing & Textiles Journal: Ordering update X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO [Feel free to forward this to other relevant lists, as long as (1) you keep this message intact, including this paragraph and my name and e-dress, and (2) you copy me in so I know where the message is going.] Many of you will remember me posting last year to announce a new academic journal, _Medieval Clothing & Textiles_. The publisher is Boydell & Brewer; the editors are Gale Owen-Crocker and myself. At that time, I promised I would update you when I had solid information on publication date and ways to order. Boydell now has the journal up on its website, for pre-order. It's scheduled for April 2005; we'll be celebrating its launch at Kalamazoo in May. You'll find the page here: http://www.boydell.co.uk/43831236.HTM Some of you will remember that there was a question about the format and cost of the journal. We're well aware that many of our readers will be serious re-enactors who want to keep up with scholarly research, but whose budgets are quite different from that of an academic library or professional scholar. Boydell normally publishes its journals in a high-quality hardback, priced around $75 US (45 GBP). We argued strenuously for Boydell to consider publishing our journal in a cheaper paperback edition, to make it more accessible to purchasers outside academe. It appears we ended up with the best of both worlds. The journal will be published in hardback -- but at the far more reasonable price of $39.95 USD (25.00 GBP). This is far better than I expected, and I hope that falls within the purchase threshold for at least some of you! (I campaigned for a lower price largely on the promise that it would increase sales among independent researchers, so I hope I won't be proven wrong.) As I've written earlier, it's a scholarly journal touching on a wide range of fields (literature, art, economics, archaeology, etc.), so we don't expect it to appeal to all medieval costumers, and not everyone will find their own interest areas covered in every volume. But we're aiming for a large spread in time/place representation in each one, so with luck there will be something for most readers who are interested in scholarly research. (We're also aiming to include at least one paper based on experimental reconstruction in each volume.) The first volume includes the following papers: -- an overview (complete, we hope) of all known examples of European embroidery before 1100 (Elizabeth Coatsworth) -- a literary analysis of textile imagery in Anglo-Saxon riddles and poetry (Maren Clegg-Hyer) -- a study of an illumination showing royal dress in an Anglo-Saxon manuscript (Gale R. Owen-Crocker) -- a look at clothing color references in Icelandic sagas (Sandra Ballif Straubhaar) -- an account of a particular technological change in the construction of medieval fulling mills (John Muendel) -- two different papers on regulations on clerical dress, 13th-14th c. (one by Susan M. Carroll-Clark and another by Thomas M. Izbicki) -- a comparison of theories about tippet construction and attachment in 14th century Western Europe (Robin Netherton) -- a summary of dress and textile references in a group of late medieval English wills (Kristen M. Burkholder) -- a theory and experimental reconstruction of a method of weaving 15th century ruffled-edge veils (Carla Tilghman). And some book reviews, too. The plans right now are for a print run of 1,000. That's good for a specialty journal, and is meant to cover all the libraries and individual specialists who will want copies. I would guess that if there's a huge demand in pre-orders, Boydell would increase the print run to cover it, but I'm not planning on that. So, when it's gone, it's gone -- I wouldn't plan on buying a copy of Vol. 1 a year or two down the road. Feel free to direct any questions to me. --Robin Netherton Co-Editor, Medieval Clothing & Textiles robin@nightowl.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 26 12:15:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQHFwQc007188 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 12:15:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAQHF2Jo021122 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 26 Nov 2004 10:15:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQHEpBw040963; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 10:14:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail11.mdx.safepages.com (mail11.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQHEngp040945 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 10:14:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id C39ABA0C2A; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 17:14:54 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust42.tnt1.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.148.42]) by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id D52E8A0B48 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 17:14:49 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <00c701c4d3db$7f41be10$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval Clothing & Textiles Journal: Ordering update Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 11:15:05 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have a quick question: > -- a summary of dress and textile references > in a group of late medieval English wills (Kristen > M. Burkholder) What years does this cover? -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 26 12:26:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQHQrAb007262 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 12:26:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAQHPuJo021893 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 26 Nov 2004 10:25:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQHPqSl047298; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 10:25:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQHPntG047245 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 10:25:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-246.sonic.net [209.148.114.246]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iAQHPjSf019915 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 09:25:46 -0800 Message-ID: <41A76723.3050609@lavoltapress.com> Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 09:25:55 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval Clothing & Textiles Journal: Ordering update References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >It appears we ended up with the best of both worlds. The journal will be >published in hardback -- but at the far more reasonable price of $39.95 >USD (25.00 GBP). This is far better than I expected, and I hope that falls >within the purchase threshold for at least some of you! (I campaigned for >a lower price largely on the promise that it would increase sales among >independent researchers, so I hope I won't be proven wrong.) > > It doesn't actually cost _that_ much more to publish a hardback than a paperback. All costs except the binding and the shipping weight are pretty much identical. The number of pages in the book, the trim size (length and width dimensions), the number of illustrations, and the use of color are far more important factors in terms of manufacturing costs and later, what consumers get for their money. The consumer can get a very rough estimate of value per page by dividing the book price by the number of pages. For example--assuming the trim size and type and number of illos are similar--a 192-page $39.95 book is about 20 cents per page value to the consumer, and equivalent to a 350-page book with a cover price of $70. How many people (numbers) did you come up with for "reenactors interested in the subject," where did you get the numbers, and how did you derive the percentages of "reenactors likely to buy" from "reenactors interested in the subject?" I've gotten really lazy about that, I just rely on sales data for previous books. Fran > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 26 12:36:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQHa9oJ007314 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 12:36:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAQHZOJo022640 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 26 Nov 2004 10:35:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQHZKNZ052406; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 10:35:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQHZISR052349 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 10:35:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11612 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 12:46:12 -0600 Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 12:46:11 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval Clothing & Textiles Journal: Ordering update In-Reply-To: <00c701c4d3db$7f41be10$0400a8c0@compaqub> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 26 Nov 2004, E House wrote: > I have a quick question: > > > -- a summary of dress and textile references > > in a group of late medieval English wills (Kristen > > M. Burkholder) > > What years does this cover? The author analyzed a group of 550 wills dating from between 1327 and 1487, from London and Canterbury, representing men and women from the artisan class up through the nobility. She did extensive statistical analysis of things like likelihood of textile bequests by social status, numbers of textile items bequeathed by occupational class and gender, etc. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 26 12:42:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQHgwuB007372 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 12:42:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAQHgCJo023162 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 26 Nov 2004 10:42:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQHg53F055940; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 10:42:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.141]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iAQHg1vd055854 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 10:42:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Nov 2004 17:41:55 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041126173809.01493418@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 17:42:02 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval Clothing & Textiles Journal: Ordering update In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > >[Feel free to forward this to other relevant lists, as long as (1) you >keep this message intact, including this paragraph and my name and >e-dress, and (2) you copy me in so I know where the message is going.] I belong to the Medieval Dress and Textiles Society, and I feel sure they will be very interested in this. Also if anyone in England belongs to the Living History Forum, it might be worth posting a brief note there (I don't post, for personal reasons, but I do read a lot of posts there.) You will be notifying the Costume Society, (English) I take it? Heavy hint - I could do a review of it if I had a copy? >Many of you will remember me posting last year to announce a new academic >journal, _Medieval Clothing & Textiles_. The publisher is Boydell & >Brewer; the editors are Gale Owen-Crocker and myself. At that time, I >promised I would update you when I had solid information on publication >date and ways to order. > >Boydell now has the journal up on its website, for pre-order. It's >scheduled for April 2005; we'll be celebrating its launch at Kalamazoo in >May. You'll find the page here: > >http://www.boydell.co.uk/43831236.HTM > >Some of you will remember that there was a question about the format and >cost of the journal. We're well aware that many of our readers will be >serious re-enactors who want to keep up with scholarly research, but whose >budgets are quite different from that of an academic library or >professional scholar. Boydell normally publishes its journals in a >high-quality hardback, priced around $75 US (45 GBP). We argued >strenuously for Boydell to consider publishing our journal in a cheaper >paperback edition, to make it more accessible to purchasers outside >academe. > >It appears we ended up with the best of both worlds. The journal will be >published in hardback -- but at the far more reasonable price of $39.95 >USD (25.00 GBP). This is far better than I expected, and I hope that falls >within the purchase threshold for at least some of you! (I campaigned for >a lower price largely on the promise that it would increase sales among >independent researchers, so I hope I won't be proven wrong.) > >As I've written earlier, it's a scholarly journal touching on a wide range >of fields (literature, art, economics, archaeology, etc.), so we don't >expect it to appeal to all medieval costumers, and not everyone will find >their own interest areas covered in every volume. But we're aiming for a >large spread in time/place representation in each one, so with luck there >will be something for most readers who are interested in scholarly >research. (We're also aiming to include at least one paper based on >experimental reconstruction in each volume.) > >The first volume includes the following papers: > -- an overview (complete, we hope) of all known examples of European >embroidery before 1100 (Elizabeth Coatsworth) > -- a literary analysis of textile imagery in Anglo-Saxon riddles and >poetry (Maren Clegg-Hyer) > -- a study of an illumination showing royal dress in an Anglo-Saxon >manuscript (Gale R. Owen-Crocker) > -- a look at clothing color references in Icelandic sagas (Sandra Ballif >Straubhaar) > -- an account of a particular technological change in the construction of >medieval fulling mills (John Muendel) > -- two different papers on regulations on clerical dress, 13th-14th c. >(one by Susan M. Carroll-Clark and another by Thomas M. Izbicki) > -- a comparison of theories about tippet construction and attachment in >14th century Western Europe (Robin Netherton) > -- a summary of dress and textile references in a group of late medieval >English wills (Kristen M. Burkholder) > -- a theory and experimental reconstruction of a method of weaving 15th >century ruffled-edge veils (Carla Tilghman). > >And some book reviews, too. > >The plans right now are for a print run of 1,000. That's good for a >specialty journal, and is meant to cover all the libraries and individual >specialists who will want copies. I would guess that if there's a huge >demand in pre-orders, Boydell would increase the print run to cover it, >but I'm not planning on that. So, when it's gone, it's gone -- I wouldn't >plan on buying a copy of Vol. 1 a year or two down the road. > >Feel free to direct any questions to me. > >--Robin Netherton >Co-Editor, Medieval Clothing & Textiles >robin@nightowl.net > > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 26 12:51:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQHpX7v007419 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 12:51:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAQHonJo023970 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 26 Nov 2004 10:50:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQHohoM060751; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 10:50:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQHocFK060701 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 10:50:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11749 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 13:01:32 -0600 Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 13:01:31 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval Clothing & Textiles Journal: Ordering update In-Reply-To: <41A76723.3050609@lavoltapress.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I wrote: > (I campaigned for a lower price largely on the promise that it would > increase sales among independent researchers, so I hope I won't be > proven wrong.) Fran asked: > How many people (numbers) did you come up with for "reenactors > interested in the subject," where did you get the numbers, and how did > you derive the percentages of "reenactors likely to buy" from > "reenactors interested in the subject?" I've gotten really lazy about > that, I just rely on sales data for previous books. I didn't come up with numbers. I'm not doing marketing or determining print runs, just supplying useful information to the publisher's marketing department so they can make decisions accordingly. What I did was point out that our buying audience was likely to be different from what the publisher typically expected for its academic journals (i.e. institutional libraries and a handful of specialist scholars who want their own copies). We know from our own contacts (as many people on this list would know!) that there's a healthy community of reenactors, living history people, and costumers who are buying "academic" publications, such as paper collections and journals, for their personal libraries. Boydell has already recognized the tremendous demand for its material culture books (the MoL books, Newton, etc.) from this group -- if you look at their home page, you'll see a prominent button for books of interest to re-enactors. We made the case that this journal, unlike Boydell's other academic journals, would also appeal to this market, and would thus benefit from the sort of marketing approach Boydell uses for material culture books rather than its standard approach for journals such as "Arthurian Literature." The closest thing I got to offering numbers was pointing out that within a week of posting on h-cost about the new journal -- more than a year before it was to hit print -- I got over 100 private e-mail inquiries from re-enactors asking me where they could order it. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 26 13:12:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQICYTd007553 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 13:12:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAQIBjJo025505 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 26 Nov 2004 11:11:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQIBfqh072120; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 11:11:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQIBdeP072100 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 11:11:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11978 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 13:22:32 -0600 Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 13:22:31 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval Clothing & Textiles Journal: Ordering update In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20041126173809.01493418@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 26 Nov 2004, Suzi Clarke wrote: > I belong to the Medieval Dress and Textiles Society, and I feel sure > they will be very interested in this. Yep, particularly since two of our editorial board members are Frances Pritchard and Kay Lacey ;-) I personally hope that some of the many unpublished papers presented at MEDATS meetings will eventually find their way into the journal. > You will be notifying the Costume Society, (English) I take it? Heavy > hint - I could do a review of it if I had a copy? We're asking that a review copy be sent to the Costume Society; I don't have control over who they ask to review it, but you might contact their reviews editor if you want to volunteer. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 26 13:23:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQINnH3007614 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 13:23:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAQIMmJo027492 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 26 Nov 2004 11:22:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQIMdqr077619; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 11:22:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail11.mdx.safepages.com (mail11.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQIMILV077344 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 11:22:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 43000A09C4; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 18:22:10 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust42.tnt1.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.148.42]) by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id AF428A0D5B for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 18:22:07 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <00cf01c4d3e4$e47b3320$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval Clothing & Textiles Journal: Ordering update Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 12:22:27 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" > The author analyzed a group of 550 wills dating from between 1327 and > 1487, from London and Canterbury, representing men and women from the > artisan class up through the nobility. She did extensive statistical > analysis of things like likelihood of textile bequests by social status, > numbers of textile items bequeathed by occupational class and gender, etc. Thanks! Sigh, how much would I love something similar from the lowlands and parts of southern France c1375-1525... -E House, feeling really lazy about doing her own research lately _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 26 13:34:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQIYBpS007657 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 13:34:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAQIX5Jo028184 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 26 Nov 2004 11:33:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQIX2og082897; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 11:33:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQIX0mG082880 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 11:33:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-16.sonic.net [209.148.113.16]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iAQIWvNe015257 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 10:32:58 -0800 Message-ID: <41A776E3.7010306@lavoltapress.com> Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 10:33:07 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval Clothing & Textiles Journal: Ordering update References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I didn't come up with numbers. I'm not doing marketing or determining >print runs, just supplying useful information to the publisher's marketing >department so they can make decisions accordingly. > >What I did was point out that our buying audience was likely to be >different from what the publisher typically expected for its academic >journals (i.e. institutional libraries and a handful of specialist >scholars who want their own copies). We know from our own contacts (as >many people on this list would know!) that there's a healthy community of >reenactors, living history people, and costumers who are buying "academic" >publications, such as paper collections and journals, for their personal >libraries. > > OK, I'm curious. But you said the journal had a projected print run of 1,000. That's a tiny run, small enough to make the unit cost (cost per copy) of manufacturing the book very high. Many offset printers won't even accept a job that small. (We're a tiny press serving a niche market, and our print runs are about 5,000 copies, which is about as low as even offset printers serving the small press market will go.) This affects the cover price. $39.95 is a fairly high cover price for a 132-page book (which is the length it's supposed to be?), though I don't know the book's trim size, number of illos, or use of color. It is still an entirely fair price, given what I suspect are the manufacturing costs, and I myself will be happy to pay it. But I would say a projected print run of 1,000 does not speak optimism about a large reenactor market (or any market). I'd guess the publisher's main market is university libraries plus a few professors. And that previous experience has given the publisher a very good idea as to how many copies of similar books they sell and who they sell them to, including many names and addresses. So it would be interesting to know if this is a larger run than usual for them. We get unsolicited book proposals from time to time. One thing many aspiring authors don't seem to understand is how to do market research. Of course, the book itself must be of good quality, the author must be competent, any illustrators or others working with the author must be competent. But the main question is and must be whether the book will make money. Even for an academic or nonprofit publisher, publishing costs are substantial and must be recouped for the publisher to stay in business. The most wonderful book without a sufficiently defined and targeted market usually is, and should be, rejected. You can't sell a publisher on a book with enthusiasm and vague statements that "lots of people are interested in this topic." You need to research exactly what people, how to reach them, and how many of them there are. You need to explain where you got your data, and in the process provide ways for the publisher to check it. Which their marketing department will, and they want figures as real as they can get them. And the figures have to be a lot more impressive than you'd think. For any of a large variety of reasons, a person being interested in a subject or working in a field usually does _not_ translate into their buying that particular book. For example, look at figures for direct mail to a well-targeted audience--a 5% or so purchase rate is pretty good. If anyone wants to do marketing research for a book proposal, there are detailed instructions in most books on how to write a book proposal. I used to do it, but as our sales became stable I started relying mostly on sales data for previous books. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 26 14:11:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQJBdkF008024 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 14:11:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAQJAdJo001143 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 26 Nov 2004 12:10:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQJAVht003161; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 12:10:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQJATgS003139 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 12:10:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12358 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 14:21:23 -0600 Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 14:21:22 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval Clothing & Textiles Journal: Ordering update In-Reply-To: <41A776E3.7010306@lavoltapress.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 26 Nov 2004, Lavolta Press wrote: > $39.95 is a fairly high cover price for a 132-page book (which is the > length it's supposed to be?) It's listed as 192 pages. That must be an estimate, as it's not in type yet (that's in process now). > But I would say a projected print run of 1,000 does not speak optimism > about a large reenactor market (or any market). I'd guess the > publisher's main market is university libraries plus a few professors. > And that previous experience has given the publisher a very good idea > as to how many copies of similar books they sell and who they sell > them to, including many names and addresses. So it would be > interesting to know if this is a larger run than usual for them. It is a larger run than usual for a new, specialized academic journal, yes. I do not know how it compares to, say, a collection of essays in the same field. I would not expect this journal to sell to a large re-enactor market -- not like the Museum of London books, or Gale Owen-Crocker's new edition of "Dress in Anglo-Saxon England." It's still a specialist journal. But there's a certain proportion of re-enactors who do buy specialist journals, and that does expand the market beyond the usual academic audience. So Boydell upped the print run accordingly. I suppose that if there's a screaming demand for it in the next few months that outpaced their estimates of the add-on non-academic market, they'd up it again. But I'm not expecting that to happen. I'm simply glad they've allowed for additional interest from people outside the usual range of libraries and professors. The people at Boydell are highly experienced and have shown themselves to do a good job on other publications I care about, so I trust they know their business in these matters. Better than I do, when it comes to numbers and prices. My experience in that part of the trade is not in academic journals, which operate differently from trade books or consumer magazines or any other segment. Academic journals and series provide the backbone income that keeps Boydell's press running, and I'm glad to be working with a publisher that's this experienced and respected in this field. > We get unsolicited book proposals from time to time. One thing many > aspiring authors don't seem to understand is how to do market > research.... You can't sell a publisher on a book with enthusiasm and > vague statements that "lots of people are interested in this topic." Perhaps I should make clear at this point that Gale and I did not approach Boydell about the journal. Boydell came to us, explained that they wanted to add a journal on this topic to their current range of journals, and asked if we would serve as editors (based on our experience, reputation, and contacts in the field). This is a very different situation from the one you describe. But certainly your points are quite germane for people seeking to find a publisher for their book (or book idea). --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 26 14:36:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQJaI2u008228 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 14:36:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAQJZDJo002874 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 26 Nov 2004 12:35:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQJZ7Wc016383; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 12:35:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay7-dav40.bay7.hotmail.com [64.4.11.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQJZ6NF016336 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 12:35:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bear_janet@msn.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 11:35:00 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 4.30.98.113 by BAY7-DAV40.phx.gbl with DAV; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 19:34:31 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [4.30.98.113] X-Originating-Email: [bear_janet@msn.com] X-Sender: bear_janet@msn.com From: "JAMES OGILVIE" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval Clothing & Textiles Journal: Ordering update Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 14:34:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 8.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V8.50.0017.1202 Seal-Send-Time: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 14:34:30 -0500 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Nov 2004 19:35:00.0695 (UTC) FILETIME=[04F3D670:01C4D3EF] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id iAQJaI2u008228 Status: RO >The plans right now are for a print run of 1,000. That's good for a specialty journal, and is meant to cover all the libraries and individual specialists who will want copies. I would guess that if there's a huge demand in pre-orders, Boydell would increase the print run to cover it, but I'm not planning on that. So, when it's gone, it's gone -- I wouldn't plan on buying a copy of Vol. 1 a year or two down the road. So does this mean that even if it is popular, it won't be reprinted. Does this mean I'll have to order all the copies I think I can possibly sell before I even see it? By the way, I called Boydell a few weeks ago re the A/S clothing book and told them that I would carry your journal and expected it to be reasonably popular if they kept the price reasonable. The man I talked to said they would be hosting a meeting from the home office shortly and he would see that the word was passed on to the decision makers. Janet Janet Davis Castle Furnishings www.medievalbookstore.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 26 14:47:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQJlWSh008370 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 14:47:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAQJkhJo003667 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 26 Nov 2004 12:46:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQJke6K023785; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 12:46:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQJkcFd023758 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 12:46:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12570 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 14:57:32 -0600 Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 14:57:31 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval Clothing & Textiles Journal: Ordering update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 26 Nov 2004, JAMES OGILVIE wrote: > So does this mean that even if it is popular, it won't be reprinted. > Does this mean I'll have to order all the copies I think I can > possibly sell before I even see it? I have no clue! I've known Boydell to reprint other books, but I don't know if they ever reprint journals. You'll get a more informed answer from your contacts there, I think. (They don't tell us authors/editors very much.) > By the way, I called Boydell a few weeks ago re the A/S clothing book > and told them that I would carry your journal and expected it to be > reasonably popular if they kept the price reasonable. The man I > talked to said they would be hosting a meeting from the home office > shortly and he would see that the word was passed on to the decision > makers. Janet, that may have made a difference. Thank you! --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 26 14:55:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQJtdRj008458 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 14:55:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAQJsoJo004186 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 26 Nov 2004 12:54:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQJsiWV027852; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 12:54:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQJsg3h027832 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 12:54:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-171.sonic.net [209.148.114.171]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iAQJseXi012337 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 11:54:41 -0800 Message-ID: <41A78A09.1010202@lavoltapress.com> Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 11:54:49 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval Clothing & Textiles Journal: Ordering update References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >It is a larger run than usual for a new, specialized academic journal, >yes. I do not know how it compares to, say, a collection of essays in the >same field. > > Whis what it is--an annual series rather than what I'd call a journal. But if you call it a journal you can more easily get a commitment to a "subscription" and secure recurring annual purchases. An excellent marketing ploy. >I would not expect this journal to sell to a large re-enactor market -- >not like the Museum of London books, or Gale Owen-Crocker's new edition of >"Dress in Anglo-Saxon England." It's still a specialist journal. But >there's a certain proportion of re-enactors who do buy specialist >journals, and that does expand the market beyond the usual academic >audience. So Boydell upped the print run accordingly. > I'm sure they know what they're doing, but it is a very, very small print run for any book. >The people at Boydell are highly experienced and have shown themselves to >do a good job on other publications I care about, so I trust they know >their business in these matters. Better than I do, when it comes to >numbers and prices. > Of course, but it's very helpful and usual for authors to do such research and for the marketing department to then check their research. >I'm glad to be >working with a publisher that's this experienced and respected in this >field. > > No question that they are a very good press. And as a professional copy editor for medical publications, I assume you've worked with many good publishers and know the routine. (I've read your excellent posts on copyediting-L, though I only lurk there, I don't post.) >Perhaps I should make clear at this point that Gale and I did not approach >Boydell about the journal. > > >But certainly your points are quite germane for people seeking to find a >publisher for their book (or book idea). > > > > At most publishers it is usual for the most senior editor for the project (the project editor) to adopt or "champion" his/her books. Junior editors on the project--manuscript editors, copy editors, and such--don't have to do this.) And to convince the marketing department the book will sell, providing figures and information on how the marketing department can reach buyers. But you're right, this is not expected of freelancers. They just go off and edit the text. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 26 15:40:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQKe4mD008816 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 15:40:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAQKdGJo006838 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 26 Nov 2004 13:39:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQKd1NV050624; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 13:39:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQKcwKM050582 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 13:38:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12928 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 15:49:52 -0600 Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 15:49:51 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval Clothing & Textiles Journal: Ordering update In-Reply-To: <41A78A09.1010202@lavoltapress.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 26 Nov 2004, Lavolta Press wrote: > Whis what it is--an annual series rather than what I'd call a journal. > But if you call it a journal you can more easily get a commitment to a > "subscription" and secure recurring annual purchases. An excellent > marketing ploy. Would you say the same of the journal Costume? It, and many other academic journals, are annuals. Journals differ from series publications and essay collections in a variety of ways relating to content, theme, structure, continuity, editorial board, and review process -- and the reference librarian on our editorial board says there's also a world of difference when it comes to bibliographical indexing and later accessibility. > No question that they are a very good press. And as a professional > copy editor for medical publications, I assume you've worked with many > good publishers and know the routine. (I've read your excellent posts > on copyediting-L, though I only lurk there, I don't post.) Thank you for the compliment. Actually, only about half my freelance business is medical; the rest is in a variety of subject areas, and runs a range of trade books, reports, newsletters, website content, and more. And perhaps less than half of my work is copyediting; I am primarily a substantive/developmental editor, although I offer the full range of services, down to proofs as needed. (I swore, though, that when I left my last fulltime post, that I would no longer do 3am press checks.) I have worked full-time for publishers in several fields -- book, newspaper, nonprofit magazine, more. This, however, is my first deep involvement in academic journal publishing, and the differences are striking. As I watch the process unfold, I am seeing the reasons behind quite a number of procedures that struck me as quirky when I started. > At most publishers it is usual for the most senior editor for the > project (the project editor) to adopt or "champion" his/her books. > Junior editors on the project--manuscript editors, copy editors, and > such--don't have to do this.) And to convince the marketing > department the book will sell, providing figures and information on > how the marketing department can reach buyers. There is a project editor on staff at Boydell who has that "champion" role on our project. That person is the one who conceived of the idea in the first place and solicited Gale and me to serve as editors. > But you're right, this is not expected of freelancers. They just go > off and edit the text. Nor is it expected of an academic journal editor, but I should note that this is not the same thing as a freelancer. In other words, there is an extra slot in the chart in the case of a peer-reviewed academic journal -- there's the project editor (on staff at the publisher), and the journal editor(s), and many individual contributors, and a freelance copyeditor who comes in much later down the line (as well as all the usual staff in production, art, marketing etc.). The difference between a freelance editor (my non-academic, bread-and-butter work) and the role of an academic journal editor (who generally is not a professional editor) is extensive. The journal editor acts as a developmental editor in dealing with the individual contributors, but plays the role of meta-author when dealing with the publisher. Gale and I choose the contributors, nail them down on topic and focus, work closely with them throughout the article writing process, cajole them at deadline time, find reviewers who understand the topics and are respected in the field, act as go-between, work with the authors over revisions, sit on them or encourage them as needed, and then figure out whether we have enough papers that actually made it through the mill to make a full volume. Journal editors are supposed to follow certain editing guidelines, but typically are not copyeditors themselves, so the publisher sends the "completed" manuscript to a freelance copyeditor. We are unusual in that I also copyedited the manuscript before I turned it in -- this meant more (unpaid) work for me, but it should ensure a smoother process, a cleaner proof, a better final product, and happier contributors. So, you're right, our role does not require that we do the marketing -- though, as the experts in our field, we supply a lot of information (names and addresses of relevant professional organizations, other publications that might review ours, suggestions on conferences and other markets for sales, etc.). But it's also not "just go off and edit the text." --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 26 16:33:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQLXL5C009183 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 16:33:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAQLWWJo010769 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 26 Nov 2004 14:32:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQLWSK1079850; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 14:32:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQLWQ0q079827 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 14:32:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-171.sonic.net [209.148.114.171]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iAQLWOYm009332 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 13:32:24 -0800 Message-ID: <41A7A0F1.30606@lavoltapress.com> Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 13:32:33 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval Clothing & Textiles Journal: Ordering update References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Thank you for the compliment. Actually, only about half my freelance >business is medical; the rest is in a variety of subject areas, and runs a >range of trade books, reports, newsletters, website content, and more. And >perhaps less than half of my work is copyediting; I am primarily a >substantive/developmental editor, although I offer the full range of >services, down to proofs as needed. > Yeah, I started my publishing career as a freelance developmental/manuscript and copy editor. I did in-house work, I did freelance work at the same time, though there was a period of maybe a year? when I was exclusively a freelancer. As a freelancer you have to be willing to do any editorial work for anybody at any time. I was a heavy-rewrite editor for an academic technical journal, at the same time I was a proofreader for a football magazine, I did all kinds of stuff. I did indexing and freelance writing, too. >I have >worked full-time for publishers in several fields -- book, newspaper, >nonprofit magazine, more. > Same here. Minus the newspapers, and plus some corporations. > This, however, is my first deep involvement in >academic journal publishing, and the differences are striking. As I watch >the process unfold, I am seeing the reasons behind quite a number of >procedures that struck me as quirky when I started. > > Every publisher has slightly different procedures. My memory of working as a developmental editor for the academic technical journal is that I at least got paid the going rate. The academic/editor who hired me didn't get paid, as far as I know, or got only an honorarium. The authors weren't getting paid either. They viewed publishing as a step to career advancement but not as a means of earning money. The ones I knew had good jobs at universities or in the industry, but I've still always felt it's not really fair. >We are unusual in that I >also copyedited the manuscript before I turned it in -- this meant more >(unpaid) work for me, but it should ensure a smoother process, a cleaner >proof, a better final product, and happier contributors. > > Last time I was an in-house project editor (for a midsize trade book publisher), that publisher required all authors to follow the house style and presented them with a 100-page house manual detailing it, plus strong encouragement to read the _Chicago Manual of Style_. Our authors were supposed to do part of the page formatting too. I had to do a fair amount of training for authors new to writing or even new to that publisher. Most authors did their best (a few refused). It greatly cut down on the copy editors' work. This was unusual at the time, but is now fairly common from what I've heard. It makes sense, considering authors usually go over their work before submitting it to correct spelling, capitalization etc. to their own standards. And many wanted to make the pages look attractive, according to their own standards, even if told the production department would use an entirely different design. So the author might as well know and use the publisher's house style to begin with. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 26 16:51:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQLpot9009326 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 16:51:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAQLowJo011805 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 26 Nov 2004 14:50:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQLopha089465; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 14:50:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQLonMg089375 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 14:50:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.153] (pm5-153.eos.net [205.133.149.153]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id iAQLocMi003827 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 16:50:39 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 16:45:58 -0500 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200411261901.iAQJ0xEv097887@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver on 205.133.149.17 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: book market X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Fran: I recently wrote a book for Arcadia Publishing, which specializes in regional history. The books (they have done about 2000) all share the same format and size, and all sell for $19.99. They are perfect-bound and printed on really nice, heavy coated paper. I did this as a personal project for my neighborhood (authors typically get about $1000 in royalties, my editor told me) rather than as a money-maker, so they don't pay much for the authors -- one cost-savings for the publisher! But they are not pay-to-print. The point of this is that the print run is between 1,000 and 2,000. They do this by having a shared format and ganging the books so they don't just do 1-2000 press runs. I assume they use large web presses, because of the quality of the books. Anyway, there are ways to do small press runs affordably, even on offset presses (vs. digital presses or copiers, which is how the whole on-demand printing industry works). An academic publication would be more difficult to do this with, because for regional history books the market is small geographically, but varied, while an academic market is large (geographically) but narrow. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 26 18:17:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQNHtO3009888 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 18:17:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAQNH7Jo017748 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 26 Nov 2004 16:17:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQNH1dL031980; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 16:17:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web51410.mail.yahoo.com (web51410.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.189]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iAQNGwOM031931 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 16:16:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ivycircle@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 47014 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Nov 2004 23:16:53 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=d5nEFknhhv5nF9eJbrex+TqyNqV9DokGurA3Z/MGmiO9R769wGzc91iWflsICE266iE7sUu+R442BhKz+742n+ALdarRbqUmQIzhPN/uQiJUYcR1OoIvFrSq1WGv9PJEKMR6Aepu0JQ72niT3IvcX6UE/Mqaq+q3RMyuk746rAM= ; Message-ID: <20041126231653.47012.qmail@web51410.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.240.66.127] by web51410.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 15:16:53 PST Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 15:16:53 -0800 (PST) From: ~Angelique To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200411251904.iAPJ2nqW047841@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 16th century wool /english X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings, I found a wool I rather like (well two) one is a herringbone pattern (black and white) the other a plaid (navy and black) Are they suitable for english merchant clothing of the late 1500's? (1550-1580?) Thank you, Angelique --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 26 18:27:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQNRCrI009962 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 18:27:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAQNQIJo018480 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 26 Nov 2004 16:26:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQNQFW7036732; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 16:26:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAQNQDMv036712 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 16:26:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-103.sonic.net [209.148.114.103]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iAQNQACq009577 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 15:26:11 -0800 Message-ID: <41A7BB9C.9030602@lavoltapress.com> Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 15:26:20 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: book market References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > The point of this is that the print run is between 1,000 and 2,000. They do >this by having a shared format and ganging the books so they don't just do >1-2000 press runs. I assume they use large web presses, because of the >quality of the books. Anyway, there are ways to do small press runs >affordably, even on offset presses (vs. digital presses or copiers, which is >how the whole on-demand printing industry works). > > > > Print on demand (POD) printing does have a high unit cost and furthermore, does a poor job of printing illustrations. We would never use it for the latter reason. It's esentially the quality of laser printing or a good photocopy. Of course, there is always the possibility that the equipment will improve over time. If the quality ever equals offset I'd consider it. Other than that (barring real homebrew methods) the only choice is offset printing. If by "shared format" you mean all the books have the same interior design, that way the publisher saved a little money on book design costs. But not on manufacturing (printing and binding) which is much more expensive. If by "ganged" you mean the publisher got a discount for giving the printer a lot of business, yes, that can certainly be done, if the publisher has enough business to give that printer in a short enough time frame. But it does take a fairly good-sized publisher to pull that off. We've had books printed by both sheetfed and web presses, depending on which press the printer wanted to keep "busy." (It can be more economical for a printer to print a short run on their web press then to let the press sit idle.) The results were identical in quality. We even have a couple books where one signature was printed on a web press and the rest of the book on a sheetfed. It is true that web presses are supposed to be more economical for huge runs; but what saves money is the huge run, not the press. That is why bestsellers cost less. However, you can't print a large run of a niche (specialty) book; it's just a waste of money (and warehouse space) to print copies that don't sell. There is no miracle production method that enables a publisher to dramatically lower costs. All publishers do their best to get the best print price. The method for this is simple. It is necessary to have a specialized book printer, and there are only a few dozen of them in the US. Then all book printers specialize as to the size of the runs they will do. Most will not print a run of fewer than 10,000 books. Many will only print certain trim sizes--for example, some do not print 8 1/2" by 11" books. Some will not print illustrated books, or at least not well. Of those who will, some will do color illustrations and some not, some will do a good job with halftones, some only do line art well, some only do simple line art well but not elaborate engravings with a lot of fine lines. Then of course, some printers are just better than others; and some guarantee their work (as nondefective) and some do not. So, for us there are about seven printers in the US who could do our jobs adequately (not necessarly to best quality). But we'd only be willing to work with about five of them. We don't, for example, want to work with one who never bothers to give us the quotes we request even though they theoretically do exactly our type of job. Here's where the simple method comes in: Once the publisher identifies the printers who can technically do that particular job, and weeds out one or two with crummy samples or references, the publisher does what is called an RFQ--request for quotation. That is, the publisher approaches the printers' sales reps and gives them a great deal of detail about the job, including, at this time, discussing file compatibility and suchlike. We always have the printer run some of our more difficult illustrations off their imagesetter. Then the publisher compares the quotations, plus the impressions given by the printers during the sales process, plus any samples provided, plus any references from other publishers. Usually the price quotes are all in the same ballpark. If not it's time to find out whether the printer with an unusual quote really understands the book specs. While there's no harm in saving a few hundred dollars, that, or even saving two or three thousand dollars, is a drop in the cost bucket. It is not likely to have any strong effect on the unit price or the resulting cover price. We've always dutifully gotten quotes from the same handful of printers, and explored others only to find out they don't do our type of job. We've ended up with the same printer for the last five books. They are the only one of the handful who, in addition to printing exactly our type of book, provide good samples of our illos. Furthermore they are reputed to be among the best book printers and we know from experience that they fully guarantee their work. As I said, there's nothing really different in printing methods that saves tons of money. There's not even necessarily much choice in printers. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 26 19:11:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAR0B3pj010175 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 19:11:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAR0AIJo021550 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 26 Nov 2004 17:10:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAR0A8MZ058719; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 17:10:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAR0A6XI058696 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 17:10:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-103.sonic.net [209.148.114.103]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iAR0A5bi030475 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 16:10:05 -0800 Message-ID: <41A7C5E6.606@lavoltapress.com> Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 16:10:14 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: book market References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In case you ever get into choosing printers: The trim size of a book, the number of pages, the number and type of illustrations, all have a very strong effect on the unit manufacturing cost. You don't give your unit cost or how it was derived. But in terms of cover price, one book can't be sold for $19.99 just because some other book with different specs can be sold for $19.99 or even $6.50. The second issue: Commercial publishers must sell at least some books (often most copies) through wholesalers, who typically take a 55% discount off the cover price. Or, to be carried by certain very important (pretty much essential) wholesalers, some publishers sell to a distributor who sells to wholesalers. Distributors can take as much as an 80% discount off the cover price. Naturally the cover price has to take all that into account. Yes, you can decide to sell only direct to consumers. For noncommercial (hobbyist) books, this is just fine. But a commercial publisher needing to move a commercial quantity of copies has to sell through wholesalers (or maybe distributors) and price the book accordingly. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com > >I recently wrote a book for Arcadia Publishing, which specializes in >regional history. The books (they have done about 2000) all share the same >format and size, and all sell for $19.99. They are perfect-bound and printed >on really nice, heavy coated paper. I did this as a personal project for my >neighborhood (authors typically get about $1000 in royalties, my editor told >me) rather than as a money-maker, so they don't pay much for the authors -- >one cost-savings for the publisher! > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 26 20:28:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAR1SRif010617 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 20:28:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAR1RdJo027390 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 26 Nov 2004 18:27:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAR1ROES097865; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 18:27:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAR1RLim097840 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 18:27:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iAR2Vnni004622 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 21:31:51 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval Clothing & Textiles Journal: Ordering update Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 20:43:42 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200411262043.42206.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on grelber.thyrsus.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 26 November 2004 12:40 pm, Robin Netherton wrote: [snip] > It appears we ended up with the best of both worlds. The journal will be > published in hardback -- but at the far more reasonable price of $39.95 > USD (25.00 GBP). This is far better than I expected, and I hope that falls > within the purchase threshold for at least some of you! (I campaigned for > a lower price largely on the promise that it would increase sales among > independent researchers, so I hope I won't be proven wrong.) Sigh. I'm very interested, but at $40 USD it's still a bit hard for me to justify the purchase, especially since I'm yearning for several different books in the same price range right about now. (I've already ordered the updated Dress in Anglo-Saxon England, for example). I'd like you to know that I appreciate the work you and Ms. Owen-Crocker have done, as well as your advocacy with the publisher to lower the price. I hope to be able to spring for the $40 by April. :-) -- Cathy Raymond "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."--Winston Churchill _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 26 20:38:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAR1cNlN010673 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 20:38:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAR1beJo028066 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 26 Nov 2004 18:37:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAR1bbCE002955; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 18:37:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAR1b4rR002661 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 18:37:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from [209.128.248.29] (deg-380268@acty3029.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.248.29]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id iAR1a5qv014008 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 20:36:14 -0500 Message-ID: <41A7D9F5.3040308@dandy.net> Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 20:35:49 -0500 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Herjolfsness book References: <419E89A2.6090206@oldwaylane.net> In-Reply-To: <419E89A2.6090206@oldwaylane.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, All. I got my copy the other day, and have been looking it over peripherally. I especially like the info about how some of the edges were finished. When I get around to it, I will give it a thorough read. Enjoy, Mike T. > > Woven into the Earth: Textile finds in Norse Greenland > by Else Ostergaard > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 26 20:57:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAR1vVu7010849 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 20:57:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAR1ufJo029445 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 26 Nov 2004 18:56:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAR1uaGn013066; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 18:56:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp102.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp102.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.36.80]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iAR1uXxT012943 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 18:56:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nicolaa@rogers.com) Received: from unknown (HELO g5e4d0) (nicolaa@rogers.com@69.195.102.229 with login) by smtp102.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Nov 2004 01:56:28 -0000 Message-ID: <004f01c4d424$4f0538f0$e566c345@g5e4d0> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: "Historical Costume" References: <41A78A09.1010202@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval Clothing & Textiles Journal: Ordering update Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 20:56:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings-- > I'm sure they know what they're doing, but it is a very, very small > print run for any book. Actually, it's not for an academic press title these days. I remember reading somewhere (either in This Week in Academe or one of the AHA publications) that even very favourably-received academic press books often sell as few as 300 copies, particularly if the topic is fairly specialized. (The context of the article was that academics are always being pressured to publish, but are rarely able to make much money off their books unless they target a more "popular" audience.) Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 26 21:10:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAR2Ad2W010926 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 21:10:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAR29oJo000894 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 26 Nov 2004 19:09:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAR29jpT020359; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 19:09:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAR29O7c020216 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 19:09:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-103.sonic.net [209.148.114.103]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iAR29NEb031279 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2004 18:09:24 -0800 Message-ID: <41A7E1DC.3030404@lavoltapress.com> Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 18:09:32 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval Clothing & Textiles Journal: Ordering update References: <41A78A09.1010202@lavoltapress.com> <004f01c4d424$4f0538f0$e566c345@g5e4d0> In-Reply-To: <004f01c4d424$4f0538f0$e566c345@g5e4d0> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/601/Mon Nov 22 06:40:21 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yow! Given the number of university libraries in the US, that's pathetic sales. And a really expensive print run. Fran Susan Carroll-Clark wrote: >Greetings-- > > > >>I'm sure they know what they're doing, but it is a very, very small >>print run for any book. >> >> > >Actually, it's not for an academic press title these days. I remember >reading somewhere (either in This Week in Academe or one of the AHA >publications) that even very favourably-received academic press books often >sell as few as 300 copies, particularly if the topic is fairly specialized. >(The context of the article was that academics are always being pressured to >publish, but are rarely able to make much money off their books unless they >target a more "popular" audience.) > >Susan > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 27 09:24:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAREOHvs008628 for ; Sat, 27 Nov 2004 09:24:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iARENMJo007231 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 27 Nov 2004 07:23:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAREN6vd054165; Sat, 27 Nov 2004 07:23:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from navgw.mccc.edu (navgw.mccc.edu [198.133.170.231]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iAREN4rC054105 for ; Sat, 27 Nov 2004 07:23:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from pinner@mccc.edu) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu ([198.133.170.1]) by navgw.mccc.edu (SMSSMTP 4.0.0.59) with SMTP id M2004112709225620484 for ; Sat, 27 Nov 2004 09:22:56 -0500 Received: from Kate ([198.133.170.246]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.11.4) with SMTP id iAREMsxX022595 for ; Sat, 27 Nov 2004 09:22:56 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00d301c4d48c$9bd89970$4fa810ac@Kate> From: "Kate Pinner" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001101c4d343$8b993640$6a6453d8@Kass> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 09:22:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/609/Fri Nov 26 13:20:39 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/609/Fri Nov 26 13:20:39 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Cassimere??? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mt husband is doing some research into John Wilkes Booth and one of the books states that they found "cassimer" trousers in his room. I'm guessing this would be a 19th century version of cashmere, but it could be a style of trouser that I don't know. Anyone know? Thanks, Kate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 27 10:12:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iARFCN2N008932 for ; Sat, 27 Nov 2004 10:12:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iARFBZJo016184 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 27 Nov 2004 08:11:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iARFBUAJ076849; Sat, 27 Nov 2004 08:11:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iARFBRbd076779 for ; Sat, 27 Nov 2004 08:11:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.d2.1cda058f (3858) for ; Sat, 27 Nov 2004 10:11:14 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 10:11:14 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cassimere??? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5000 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/609/Fri Nov 26 13:20:39 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/609/Fri Nov 26 13:20:39 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This term had confused me, too. It is not cashmere, though, but rather a blended fabric--I'm out of town, away from my reference books, but I think, if memory serves, that it is a wool and cotton blend. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 27 10:15:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iARFF2Cl008955 for ; Sat, 27 Nov 2004 10:15:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iARFEHJo016704 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 27 Nov 2004 08:14:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iARFED6j078224; Sat, 27 Nov 2004 08:14:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from navgw.mccc.edu (navgw.mccc.edu [198.133.170.231]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iARFECgm078174 for ; Sat, 27 Nov 2004 08:14:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from pinner@mccc.edu) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu ([198.133.170.1]) by navgw.mccc.edu (SMSSMTP 4.0.0.59) with SMTP id M2004112710140620665 for ; Sat, 27 Nov 2004 10:14:06 -0500 Received: from Kate ([198.133.170.246]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.11.4) with SMTP id iARFE4xX023757 for ; Sat, 27 Nov 2004 10:14:06 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00e001c4d493$c1d92110$4fa810ac@Kate> From: "Kate Pinner" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cassimere??? Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 10:14:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/609/Fri Nov 26 13:20:39 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/609/Fri Nov 26 13:20:39 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > This term had confused me, too. It is not cashmere, though, but rather a > blended fabric--I'm out of town, away from my reference books, but I > think, if > memory serves, that it is a wool and cotton blend. > > Ann Wass Makes sense to me. Thanks. Kate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 27 15:21:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iARKLA1P011179 for ; Sat, 27 Nov 2004 15:21:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iARKJqJo008644 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 27 Nov 2004 13:19:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iARKJaGx029216; Sat, 27 Nov 2004 13:19:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-02.rdc-nyc.rr.com (ms-smtp-02-smtplb.rdc-nyc.rr.com [24.29.109.6]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iARKJWbb029177 for ; Sat, 27 Nov 2004 13:19:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from marthakelly@nyc.rr.com) Received: from Martha (24-90-83-116.nyc.rr.com [24.90.83.116]) by ms-smtp-02.rdc-nyc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id iARKJOBN024372 for ; Sat, 27 Nov 2004 15:19:26 -0500 (EST) From: "Martha Kelly" To: Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 15:19:41 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <200411271902.iARJ1ELt090301@net.indra.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/609/Fri Nov 26 13:20:39 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/609/Fri Nov 26 13:20:39 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Cassimere X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO "Cassimere. A fine, heavy, all wool fabric, twilled, and called in England, Kerseymere. It is made plain, and with mixed colors; also in stripes and fancy patterns. In the best qualities the warp is nearly twice as large as the woof. An inferior quality has a cotton warp...." This is from "Scissors and Yardstick or All About Dry Goods" published in 1872 in Hartford, CT. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 27 16:50:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iARLovjq011774 for ; Sat, 27 Nov 2004 16:50:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iARLo5Jo013944 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 27 Nov 2004 14:50:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iARLnvos071349; Sat, 27 Nov 2004 14:49:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iARLntZN071314 for ; Sat, 27 Nov 2004 14:49:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F4B92EE3D for ; Sat, 27 Nov 2004 15:49:53 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p107.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.214.109]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 4FA3FC440 for ; Sat, 27 Nov 2004 15:49:52 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historic Costume" Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 15:50:07 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/609/Fri Nov 26 13:20:39 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/609/Fri Nov 26 13:20:39 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] thoughts on a sleeve X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have been looking at some late 1400s dresses of which I am thinking of making. This dress, http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/m/master/xunk_it/xunk_it3/sacrati.jpg I have found to be quite curious. The sleeve seems to have a black cuff. I have been trying to figure out how it is apart of the sleeve. Is it a part of the lining of the sleeve and the end of the sleeve is turned back exposing the lining? is it a false sleeve over a black sleeve? the under dress looks to be the same material as the sleeve and the black, I am assuming is the overdress (brain fog, can't remember the appropriate name for it) The whitish part on the black dress is a "shawl"(?). What I also find fascinating about this painting is that it shows the mans side and it would apart that he is wearing a tabard. Anyway, what is your take on the sleeve? De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 27 17:03:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iARM3iJC011838 for ; Sat, 27 Nov 2004 17:03:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iARM2qJo014715 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 27 Nov 2004 15:02:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iARM2mwE077608; Sat, 27 Nov 2004 15:02:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from abraxis.com (mail.abraxis.com [216.47.64.210]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iARM2lVU077535 for ; Sat, 27 Nov 2004 15:02:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sandraleigh@abraxis.com) Received: from mail.abraxis.com [216.47.64.210] by abraxis.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.12) id A98115440102; Sat, 27 Nov 2004 17:02:41 -0500 Received: from Sandra ([216.47.84.21]) by mail.abraxis.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Sat, 27 Nov 2004 17:02:40 -0500 From: "Sandra Olsen" To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 17:02:48 -0500 Message-ID: <000201c4d4cc$d5b3be00$15542fd8@Sandra> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Nov 2004 22:02:41.0016 (UTC) FILETIME=[D0874780:01C4D4CC] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/609/Fri Nov 26 13:20:39 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/609/Fri Nov 26 13:20:39 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 1860's ballgown question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Does anyone know what a good rule of thumb would be for deciding the circumference of hoops to go under a 1863-1864 ballgown? I have yet to be able to find any period references to circumference measurements, and the extant samples I have seen are usually either for daywear or too late-period to be useful. Extant ballgowns themselves seem to be far more generously proportioned than the 110-120 inches recommended on a few sites. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 27 17:24:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iARMOcGV011984 for ; Sat, 27 Nov 2004 17:24:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iARMNnJo015996 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 27 Nov 2004 15:23:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iARMNiRc087614; Sat, 27 Nov 2004 15:23:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail10.mdx.safepages.com (mail10.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.33]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iARMNgCi087448 for ; Sat, 27 Nov 2004 15:23:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail10.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 8D696207B7; Sat, 27 Nov 2004 22:23:34 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust66.tnt3.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.197.66]) by mail10.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id C255A2071B for ; Sat, 27 Nov 2004 22:23:32 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <018801c4d4cf$c870c910$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] thoughts on a sleeve Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 16:23:52 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/609/Fri Nov 26 13:20:39 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/609/Fri Nov 26 13:20:39 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The black part seems to be puffier than the orange, so I wouldn't think that the black is a separate sleeve under the orange, false or otherwise. If you look closely, you can see the seam along the side of her arm on the orange part continues into the black part, and that there are ties dangling from both the black and the orange at the wrist. To me, all this suggests that the black is a band of cloth (probably velvet) applied to the orange, before the sleeve was sewn up. The position of the ties makes me think it's not a turned back cuff, as well as the fact that there's no indication of any space between the black part and the orange; I don't think it would lay that close against the orange unless it were sewn to it. I'm kind of taking into account the sleeve of the boy, as well--since you see a puff of off-white shirt material at the elbow, I think it's safe to assume that the burgundy bicep puffs and cuff effect are applied to the outer sleeve, rather than an undersleeve showing through. (Although that doesn't rule out a turn-back, on him.) So that sets a sort of a precedent for these specific people, although I suppose that's only mildly helpful. Just my take, though! =} -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 28 05:14:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iASAEAxq016944 for ; Sun, 28 Nov 2004 05:14:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iASADKJo004870 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 28 Nov 2004 03:13:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iASAD8eu003128; Sun, 28 Nov 2004 03:13:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iASAD6fa003099 for ; Sun, 28 Nov 2004 03:13:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A44B2F317 for ; Sun, 28 Nov 2004 04:13:05 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p179.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.214.181]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 6117EC5F7 for ; Sun, 28 Nov 2004 04:13:00 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] thoughts on a sleeve Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 04:13:02 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <018801c4d4cf$c870c910$0400a8c0@compaqub> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/609/Fri Nov 26 13:20:39 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/609/Fri Nov 26 13:20:39 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -----Original Message----- The black part seems to be puffier than the orange, so I wouldn't think that the black is a separate sleeve under the orange, false or otherwise.> I agree. Is that a seam or part of the check pattern? I think that if it were a seam that the ties would be there. I hadn't noticed the ties on the orange. < To me, all this suggests that the black is a band of cloth (probably velvet) applied to the orange, before the sleeve was sewn up. The position of the ties makes me think it's not a turned back cuff, as well as the fact that there's no indication of any space between the black part and the orange; I don't think it would lay that close against the orange unless it were sewn to it. I'm kind of taking into account the sleeve of the boy, as well--since you see a puff of off-white shirt material at the elbow, I think it's safe to assume that the burgundy bicep puffs and cuff effect are applied to the outer sleeve, rather than an undersleeve showing through. (Although that doesn't rule out a turn-back, on him.) So that sets a sort of a precedent for these specific people, although I suppose that's only mildly helpful.> I had not noticed the boy's sleeve. I would appear that it is a band applied to the sleeve then a turned back cuff. Just my take, though! =} -E House This helped. I have noticed another thing. the woman is wearing gloves with the finger tips cut off. Thank you, De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 28 06:26:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iASBQ76M017311 for ; Sun, 28 Nov 2004 06:26:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iASBP8Jo007603 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 28 Nov 2004 04:25:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iASBP2Sb031172; Sun, 28 Nov 2004 04:25:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.141]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iASBOtGs031098 for ; Sun, 28 Nov 2004 04:25:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Nov 2004 11:24:49 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20041128111800.01493608@mail.suziclarke.co.uk> X-Sender: suziclarkeuk-mail@mail.suziclarke.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 11:24:52 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1860's ballgown question In-Reply-To: <000201c4d4cc$d5b3be00$15542fd8@Sandra> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/609/Fri Nov 26 13:20:39 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/609/Fri Nov 26 13:20:39 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 17:02 27/11/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Does anyone know what a good rule of thumb would be for deciding the >circumference of hoops to go under a 1863-1864 ballgown? I have yet to >be able to find any period references to circumference measurements, and >the extant samples I have seen are usually either for daywear or too >late-period to be useful. Extant ballgowns themselves seem to be far >more generously proportioned than the 110-120 inches recommended on a >few sites. Don't forget that the ballgown skirt has to go over 1. the hoop, 2. at least one, if not more, petticoats. A hoop of about 110" can take a skirt of about 144" with no problems. Many original skirts of this period are only 4 widths of 36" wide fabric. You could try checking Janet Arnold "Patterns of Fashion 1860-1930", Nancy Bradfield, "Costume in Detail 1730-1930" and Norah Waugh, "Cut of Women's Clothes 1600-1930", all of which use original garments for patterns, detailed drawings or both. I think just recently there was a thread about hoop circumferences - you might want to check back a few weeks. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 28 12:36:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iASHasiM024502 for ; Sun, 28 Nov 2004 12:36:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iASHa3Jo026071 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 28 Nov 2004 10:36:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iASHZmJb095738; Sun, 28 Nov 2004 10:35:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m14.mx.aol.com (imo-m14.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iASHZk7D095692 for ; Sun, 28 Nov 2004 10:35:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.13d.7410d28 (3940) for ; Sun, 28 Nov 2004 12:35:36 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <13d.7410d28.2edb6668@aol.com> Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 12:35:36 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] thoughts on a sleeve To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/609/Fri Nov 26 13:20:39 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/609/Fri Nov 26 13:20:39 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/27/2004 4:52:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, otsisto@socket.net writes: > Is it a part of the lining of the sleeve and the end of the sleeve is > turned > back exposing the lining? is it a false sleeve over a black sleeve? I'd go with the turned back lining thing. The bodice looks black [and turns grey under the sheer white of whatever that is over her shoulders....anyway it looks that way to me], but the red edging at the neck and down the CF could be a red gown underneath or a binding. I'd go with a binding of the same red as the sleeves and a turned back cuff with the black lining [same as bodice fabric] showing. We'll never really know, but this bound neck/turn back cuff arrangement seems to be more logical than a black sleeved bodice with red sleeves over the black. If the black gown has sleeves already, what are the red sleeves attached to? And the alternating use of fabrics in the turned back scenario is in keeping with parti coloring...sorta. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 28 12:50:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iASHoIvw024615 for ; Sun, 28 Nov 2004 12:50:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iASHnWJo027142 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 28 Nov 2004 10:49:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iASHnSiL010239; Sun, 28 Nov 2004 10:49:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iASHnQF9009879 for ; Sun, 28 Nov 2004 10:49:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.1e4.2f444979 (3940) for ; Sun, 28 Nov 2004 12:49:19 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1e4.2f444979.2edb699f@aol.com> Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 12:49:19 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] thoughts on a sleeve To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/609/Fri Nov 26 13:20:39 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/609/Fri Nov 26 13:20:39 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/27/2004 5:24:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, formfunc@formfunction.org writes: > The black part seems to be puffier than the orange, so I wouldn't think > that > the black is a separate sleeve under the orange, false or otherwise. See, to me the black sleeve is not "puffier" or puffy at all. It looks laid over the red. If the cuff were turned back down it would bell a bit over her hand....a style not unseen in paintings. It may be black on both sides y'know. and added all black belled cuff. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 28 14:17:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iASJH5tp025306 for ; Sun, 28 Nov 2004 14:17:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iASJEgJo002290 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 28 Nov 2004 12:14:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iASJEXb6054608; Sun, 28 Nov 2004 12:14:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iASJET6v054477 for ; Sun, 28 Nov 2004 12:14:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be38.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.56]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id A3EA626287A for ; Sun, 28 Nov 2004 20:14:16 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000c01c4d57e$82587f90$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 20:14:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/609/Fri Nov 26 13:20:39 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/609/Fri Nov 26 13:20:39 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] thoughts on a sleeve X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I would say it is a turned back cuff. But then again, dont count on me, because it is not my period. Why is she having a seam pointed outwards on the underarm sleave? Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 28 15:52:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iASKq3YJ026305 for ; Sun, 28 Nov 2004 15:52:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iASKp5Jo008642 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 28 Nov 2004 13:51:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iASKocTj006009; Sun, 28 Nov 2004 13:50:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail12.mdx.safepages.com (mail12.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.154.242]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iASKoYFg005782 for ; Sun, 28 Nov 2004 13:50:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail12.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 20D96B6BC; Sun, 28 Nov 2004 20:50:29 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust120.tnt1.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.148.120]) by mail12.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E91E1B839 for ; Sun, 28 Nov 2004 20:50:18 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <001801c4d58b$ecec8330$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] thoughts on a sleeve Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 14:50:31 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/609/Fri Nov 26 13:20:39 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/609/Fri Nov 26 13:20:39 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "otsisto" > Is that a seam or part of the check pattern? I think that if it were a > seam > that the ties would be there. It looks to me like a much stronger, more 3-dimensional line than the check pattern lines, and I have seen several sleeves from this era with a seam at that point on the sleeve. (Mostly from different areas, since I don't really study Italian stuff that much.) It does seem odd that the ties (which I see going back at least as far as her elbow) wouldn't fall on that seam line, but there's at least one rendition of a placket in a sleeve, and I'm going nuts right now because I know it's in my files but I can't find it. I think it's a little earlier than this, on a statue, and probably French. Ring a bell with anyone? Anyway, that's a posibility. Just now, looking at all three sets of sleeves in this portrait, I noticed something. The brown things on the man's bicep that look like puffs aren't; they're some sort of fat ties attached at the top, dangling down and away, and ending in aiglettes. Looking closer at the boy's sleeve, it looks like he has the same sort of thing, in burgundy; I can see similar aiglettes at the ends of those as well. Now, this doesn't really have too much to do with the woman's sleeve, but again, it sort of sets a precedent--this time for decorative, dangling ties. I don't really think that's the answer, though; based purely on what I see, I can't think of anything that satisfies me other than a side-of-the-arm seam, with an under-the-wrist placket that closes with ties. I can think of various reasons for her to do it this way, and wrote a longish paragraph on it just now, then decided to delete it since I just haven't studied Italian clothing enough. Long story short, I've seen sleeves with seams there, and sleeves with lacing or ties there, and at least one sleeve with something resembling a placket (in other words, an opening to be laced or buttoned that is not in a seam). I'm not sure why she would have chosen to combine all three in this sleeve, but that seems to be what I'm seeing. However, if I were making it, I'd just rotate the sleeve seam so that it ran underneath the wrist. I noticed those fingerless gloves, too... my first thought was, "I wonder if it has something to do with the bird?" I'd be really interested if there was any impact on her costume related to that. -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 28 16:29:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iASLT89E026680 for ; Sun, 28 Nov 2004 16:29:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iASLSEJo011143 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 28 Nov 2004 14:28:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iASLS8rK025254; Sun, 28 Nov 2004 14:28:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from simmts5-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts5.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.163]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iASLS7vJ025175 for ; Sun, 28 Nov 2004 14:28:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([67.68.137.42]) by simmts5-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with SMTP id <20041128212757.YLUK1614.simmts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Sun, 28 Nov 2004 16:27:57 -0500 Message-ID: <004301c4d591$87a49160$cb6afea9@sherry> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 16:30:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/609/Fri Nov 26 13:20:39 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/609/Fri Nov 26 13:20:39 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Playing cards X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I recently found these on the net, and I thought folks here would appreciate them: http://www.wopc.co.uk/germany/stuttgart.html Sheridan ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* The wind riz and then it blew, the rain friz and then it snew. Spring has sprung, the grass is riz, I wonder where the flowers is. Spring has sprung, fall has fell, winter's here and it's cold as heck. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 28 19:10:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAT0AVL6028195 for ; Sun, 28 Nov 2004 19:10:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAT09XJo022919 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 28 Nov 2004 17:09:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAT09KjD009749; Sun, 28 Nov 2004 17:09:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAT09GXI009675 for ; Sun, 28 Nov 2004 17:09:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.30.669f7068 (4402) for ; Sun, 28 Nov 2004 19:09:06 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <30.669f7068.2edbc2a1@aol.com> Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 19:09:05 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Playing cards To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/609/Fri Nov 26 13:20:39 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/609/Fri Nov 26 13:20:39 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/28/2004 4:29:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca writes: > I recently found these on the net, and I thought folks here would > appreciate > them: > What an interesting site! Thanx! There are 3 medieval decks y'know... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 29 06:18:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iATBILQP006732 for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2004 06:18:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iATBHCJo008962 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 29 Nov 2004 04:17:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iATBGvQw031896; Mon, 29 Nov 2004 04:16:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from alpha2.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (alpha2.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.0.14]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iATBGtHP031854 for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2004 04:16:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 11:14:24 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: RE: [h-cost] Manchester shift To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F401979255A@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Manchester shift Thread-Index: AcTT5Fm6HlnybT7vSUemZqHBLgxlzACIAjWA content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.20 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/610/Sun Nov 28 14:32:08 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/610/Sun Nov 28 14:32:08 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I wonder if anyone on the list has information on a woman's > shift housed in the Gallery of English Costume in Manchester. > The shift dates to 1700 or earlier and is pictured in figure > 27 of the Cunnington's "The History of Underclothes". > Nothing much is said about the shift, so I was wondering if > anyone on this list has seen it in person or knows where else > it might be discussed. I'm looking specifically for > measurements of the pieces but I'd take any information that > would help me make a reasonable replica of a shift of that > time period. I might mention that I am *not* interested in > earlier or later shifts at this time -- just any extant > examples from circa 1670-1710. > > Thank you in advance for your help. Danielle, you're still our Manchester resident on the list - have you seen this one? Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 29 06:27:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iATBRMw7011675 for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2004 06:27:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iATBQWJo010583 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 29 Nov 2004 04:26:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iATBQRIc036274; Mon, 29 Nov 2004 04:26:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.254.14]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iATBQOMa036248 for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2004 04:26:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 11:26:20 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] thoughts on a sleeve To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F401979255C@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] thoughts on a sleeve Thread-Index: AcTVfeTvN4CbFNzhSNSkKAr0Eff/xgAh6FZQ content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.20 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/610/Sun Nov 28 14:32:08 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/610/Sun Nov 28 14:32:08 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO E. House said~ > To me, all this suggests that > the black is a band of cloth (probably velvet) applied to the orange, before > the sleeve was sewn up. The position of the ties makes me think it's not a > turned back cuff, as well as the fact that there's no indication of any > space between the black part and the orange; I don't think it would lay that > close against the orange unless it were sewn to it. That looks sensible to me too - It looks like the underdress could made in the orange with wide bands of black following the neckline and CF opening, set back a tad from the edge so that there's a line of orange showing at the very edge. > I'm kind of taking into account the sleeve of the boy, as well--since you > see a puff of off-white shirt material at the elbow, I think it's safe to > assume that the burgundy bicep puffs and cuff They aren't puffs, they're points, the ame as the ones on the mans sleeve. If you look at the lower ends of them you can make out that they are gathetred into tips (possibly metal) on both the man's and the boy's. Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 29 06:32:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iATBWsM4014525 for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2004 06:32:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iATBWEJo011785 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 29 Nov 2004 04:32:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iATBW9oc038860; Mon, 29 Nov 2004 04:32:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.67]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iATBW60J038804 for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2004 04:32:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dannw@lycos.com) Received: from wfilter.us4.outblaze.com (wfilter.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.180]) by webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix) with QMQP id E44681800238 for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2004 11:32:00 +0000 (GMT) X-OB-Received: from unknown (208.36.123.33) by wfilter.us4.outblaze.com; 29 Nov 2004 11:32:00 -0000 Received: by ws7-4.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 78F44CA07F; Mon, 29 Nov 2004 11:32:00 +0000 (GMT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from [81.144.218.66] by ws7-4.us4.outblaze.com with http for dannw@lycos.com; Mon, 29 Nov 2004 11:32:00 +0000 From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 11:32:00 +0000 Subject: RE: [h-cost] Manchester shift X-Originating-Ip: 81.144.218.66 X-Originating-Server: ws7-4.us4.outblaze.com Message-Id: <20041129113200.78F44CA07F@ws7-4.us4.outblaze.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/610/Sun Nov 28 14:32:08 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/610/Sun Nov 28 14:32:08 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id iATBW60J038804 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It isn't on display so I can't tell you anything about it. Sorry. Cheers, Danielle ----- Original Message ----- > > I wonder if anyone on the list has information on a woman's > > shift housed in the Gallery of English Costume in Manchester. > > The shift dates to 1700 or earlier and is pictured in figure > > 27 of the Cunnington's "The History of Underclothes". > > Nothing much is said about the shift, so I was wondering if > > anyone on this list has seen it in person or knows where else > > it might be discussed. I'm looking specifically for > > measurements of the pieces but I'd take any information that > > would help me make a reasonable replica of a shift of that > > time period. I might mention that I am *not* interested in > > earlier or later shifts at this time -- just any extant > > examples from circa 1670-1710. > > > > Thank you in advance for your help. > > Danielle, you're still our Manchester resident on the list - have you > seen this one? > > Teddy -- _______________________________________________ Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 29 06:56:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iATBuG2j024406 for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2004 06:56:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iATBtPJo016078 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 29 Nov 2004 04:55:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iATBtL4Z048454; Mon, 29 Nov 2004 04:55:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm43.prodigy.net (ylpvm43-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.74]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iATBtIj4048423 for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2004 04:55:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-54-74.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.54.74]) by ylpvm43.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iATBtKpD008119 for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2004 06:55:22 -0500 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20041129034528.032e01e8@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 03:47:44 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1860's ballgown question In-Reply-To: <000201c4d4cc$d5b3be00$15542fd8@Sandra> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/610/Sun Nov 28 14:32:08 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/610/Sun Nov 28 14:32:08 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Does anyone know what a good rule of thumb would be for deciding the >circumference of hoops to go under a 1863-1864 ballgown? I have yet to >be able to find any period references to circumference measurements, and >the extant samples I have seen are usually either for daywear or too >late-period to be useful. Extant ballgowns themselves seem to be far >more generously proportioned than the 110-120 inches recommended on a >few sites. Not exactly a historical reference, but I work with a dancing group at a hoop-skirt-Victorian Christmas fair. We recommend small-ish hoops if the dance floor is going to be crowded. This may not be period, but large hoops fill up a crowded dance floor quickly, and really get in the way. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 29 12:20:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iATHK0JN028339 for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2004 12:20:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iATHIYJo013671 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 29 Nov 2004 10:18:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iATHIO8P059361; Mon, 29 Nov 2004 10:18:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from navgw.mccc.edu (navgw.mccc.edu [198.133.170.231]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iATHI3Qn058625 for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2004 10:18:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from pinner@mccc.edu) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu ([198.133.170.1]) by navgw.mccc.edu (SMSSMTP 4.0.0.59) with SMTP id M2004112912175530594 for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2004 12:17:55 -0500 Received: from TH103A ([198.133.170.246]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.11.4) with ESMTP id iATHHtxV012599 for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2004 12:17:55 -0500 (EST) From: "Kate Pinner" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] looking for 'renaissance' fabric Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 12:17:50 -0500 Message-ID: <651C586D272B24428B045AA9CF0B2F90A9102D@mcmail01.wwc.mccc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <651C586D272B24428B045AA9CF0B2F9001D2A727@mcmail01.wwc.mccc.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/610/Sun Nov 28 14:32:08 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/610/Sun Nov 28 14:32:08 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO "On the other hand, if you're looking for linen, I know a store in NYC that does mail-order and has linen for around $3-5 a yard. Last I was there they had a rainbow of colors, and if you want I'll e-mail you their phone number so that you can call and ask." Christine, Please post to list. Kate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 29 12:33:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iATHXEin028421 for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2004 12:33:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iATHV5Jo015254 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 29 Nov 2004 10:31:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iATHUxJ0072001; Mon, 29 Nov 2004 10:31:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iATHUvBS071888 for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2004 10:30:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from IceGirlNIN@aol.com) Received: from IceGirlNIN@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.f6.44991ed4 (4410) for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2004 12:30:47 -0500 (EST) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 12:30:47 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for 'renaissance' fabric To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5000 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/610/Sun Nov 28 14:32:08 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/610/Sun Nov 28 14:32:08 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/29/2004 12:25:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, pinner@mccc.edu writes: Christine, Please post to list. Kate The name of the store is Ebad Fabrics. They're in New York City, at 550 8th Avenue. The phone number is 212-869-7826. It was still there in August, which was the last time I went shopping in NYC for fabric. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 30 04:32:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAU9WaZC012521 for ; Tue, 30 Nov 2004 04:32:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAU9VWJo008297 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 30 Nov 2004 02:31:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAU9VJPF010469; Tue, 30 Nov 2004 02:31:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from alpha2.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (alpha2.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.0.14]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAU9VGWT010414 for ; Tue, 30 Nov 2004 02:31:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Teddy@mdx.ac.uk) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 09:30:43 +0000 From: Teddy Subject: Re: [h-cost] thoughts on a sleeve To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F4019792563@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-Topic: [h-cost] thoughts on a sleeve Thread-Index: AcTWRkYg2OxDHggORxm8ZeuEZocgngAeFTcg content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-INTERNAL-IP: 10.13.82.20 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/610/Sun Nov 28 14:32:08 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/610/Sun Nov 28 14:32:08 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > That looks sensible to me too - It looks like the underdress could made > in the orange with wide bands of black following the neckline and CF > opening, set back a tad from the edge so that there's a line of orange > showing at the very edge. Havign had a nother look, i was mistaking the white thing over the shoulders (that turns grey as it passes over the black of the bodice) for the bodice of a sleeveless overgown and the black bodice of the gown (visible between the white/grey shawl-thing at the centre front) for the bodice of an undergown. So I should change my description of the womans garments to a black gown with orange guards around the neckline and centre-front of the bodice with orange sleeves guarded at the wrist with black (possibly a black turn-back cuff) Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 30 09:11:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAUEBuVU029610 for ; Tue, 30 Nov 2004 09:11:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAUEA1Jo022274 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 30 Nov 2004 07:10:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAUE9gFR070918; Tue, 30 Nov 2004 07:09:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from navgw.mccc.edu (navgw.mccc.edu [198.133.170.231]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iAUE9dmY070790 for ; Tue, 30 Nov 2004 07:09:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from pinner@mccc.edu) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu ([198.133.170.1]) by navgw.mccc.edu (SMSSMTP 4.0.0.59) with SMTP id M2004113009093203563 for ; Tue, 30 Nov 2004 09:09:32 -0500 Received: from Kate ([198.133.170.246]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.11.4) with SMTP id iAUE9TxX005392 for ; Tue, 30 Nov 2004 09:09:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <01a201c4d6e6$4154b8b0$4fa810ac@Kate> From: "Kate Pinner" To: "Historical Costume" References: <8AFF1656DE4AB348973023624E8F4019792563@MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] thoughts on a sleeve Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 09:09:43 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/610/Sun Nov 28 14:32:08 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/610/Sun Nov 28 14:32:08 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Would all this be over a grey (or dark lavendar, depending on your monitor) undergarment? Or another gown? Kate > > > Havign had a nother look, i was mistaking the white thing over the > shoulders (that turns grey as it passes over the black of the bodice) > for the bodice of a sleeveless overgown and the black bodice of the gown > (visible between the white/grey shawl-thing at the centre front) for the > bodice of an undergown. > > So I should change my description of the womans garments to a black gown > with orange guards around the neckline and centre-front of the bodice > with orange sleeves guarded at the wrist with black (possibly a black > turn-back cuff) > > Teddy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 30 12:53:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAUHrZGR031181 for ; Tue, 30 Nov 2004 12:53:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAUHqeJo024863 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 30 Nov 2004 10:52:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAUHqUgf057542; Tue, 30 Nov 2004 10:52:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAUHqRoI057394 for ; Tue, 30 Nov 2004 10:52:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id 6.1ef.2fed5b78 (3988) for ; Tue, 30 Nov 2004 12:52:09 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1ef.2fed5b78.2ede0d48@aol.com> Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 12:52:08 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] thoughts on a sleeve To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/610/Sun Nov 28 14:32:08 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/610/Sun Nov 28 14:32:08 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 11/30/2004 9:13:43 AM Eastern Standard Time, pinner@mccc.edu writes: > So I should change my description of the womans garments to a black gown > >with orange guards around the neckline and centre-front of the bodice > >with orange sleeves guarded at the wrist with black (possibly a black > >turn-back cuff) > Wait....didn't I say that? ;-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 30 13:19:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAUIJlfa031360 for ; Tue, 30 Nov 2004 13:19:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAUIIjJo027743 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 30 Nov 2004 11:18:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAUIIc89082522; Tue, 30 Nov 2004 11:18:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAUIIYeH082402 for ; Tue, 30 Nov 2004 11:18:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE5202E955 for ; Tue, 30 Nov 2004 12:18:30 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p387.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.133]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id AE062D3EA for ; Tue, 30 Nov 2004 12:18:29 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] thoughts on a sleeve Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 12:18:29 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <01a201c4d6e6$4154b8b0$4fa810ac@Kate> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/610/Sun Nov 28 14:32:08 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/610/Sun Nov 28 14:32:08 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The gray area of the dress is a "shawl" there is an Italian garment word for it. If you note, near the necklace you will see the line indicating the rest of the "shawl" that is not covering the black gown. Basically I have some material similar to the sleeve material. I have 15 yds of it. So I will make an under gown of the red with band of black on the end of the sleeve and make a black overdress with goldish ties. Thank you for the help. I find several analyzing a picture gets me more ideas and people point out things that I missed and I find more things. Again, Thank you. De -----Original Message----- Would all this be over a grey (or dark lavendar, depending on your monitor) undergarment? Or another gown? Kate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 30 13:21:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAUILhUd031368 for ; Tue, 30 Nov 2004 13:21:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAUIKuJo027996 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 30 Nov 2004 11:20:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAUIKuo9084771; Tue, 30 Nov 2004 11:20:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from navgw.mccc.edu (navgw.mccc.edu [198.133.170.231]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iAUIIiFR082526 for ; Tue, 30 Nov 2004 11:18:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from pinner@mccc.edu) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu ([198.133.170.1]) by navgw.mccc.edu (SMSSMTP 4.0.0.59) with SMTP id M2004113013183705466 for ; Tue, 30 Nov 2004 13:18:37 -0500 Received: from TH103A ([198.133.170.246]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.11.4) with ESMTP id iAUIIbxV023738 for ; Tue, 30 Nov 2004 13:18:37 -0500 (EST) From: "Kate Pinner" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] thoughts on a sleeve Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 13:18:32 -0500 Message-ID: <651C586D272B24428B045AA9CF0B2F90A9102E@mcmail01.wwc.mccc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <651C586D272B24428B045AA9CF0B2F9001D2A792@mcmail01.wwc.mccc.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/610/Sun Nov 28 14:32:08 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/610/Sun Nov 28 14:32:08 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What I asked was -- Would all this be over a grey (or dark lavender, depending on your monitor) undergarment? Or another gown? Kate -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of AlbertCat@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 12:52 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] thoughts on a sleeve In a message dated 11/30/2004 9:13:43 AM Eastern Standard Time, pinner@mccc.edu writes: > So I should change my description of the womans garments to a black gown > >with orange guards around the neckline and centre-front of the bodice > >with orange sleeves guarded at the wrist with black (possibly a black > >turn-back cuff) > Wait....didn't I say that? ;-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 30 13:31:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAUIVvke031428 for ; Tue, 30 Nov 2004 13:31:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAUIV4Jo029250 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 30 Nov 2004 11:31:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAUIUush094156; Tue, 30 Nov 2004 11:30:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail14.mdx.safepages.com (mail14.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.154.244]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAUIUr9G093860 for ; Tue, 30 Nov 2004 11:30:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail14.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id E24641ECD49; Tue, 30 Nov 2004 18:30:43 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust100.tnt1.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.148.100]) by mail14.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id C45A61ECD38 for ; Tue, 30 Nov 2004 18:30:37 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <00bf01c4d70a$bfe558a0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <651C586D272B24428B045AA9CF0B2F90A9102E@mcmail01.wwc.mccc.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] thoughts on a sleeve Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 12:30:57 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/610/Sun Nov 28 14:32:08 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/610/Sun Nov 28 14:32:08 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Not knowing much about Italian layers, I am confounded by the way the main body of this outfit goes together--I'll be interested to see what you do with it! I hope you'll keep us posted. -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 30 14:14:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAUJEp36031699 for ; Tue, 30 Nov 2004 14:14:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAUJE0Jo003818 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 30 Nov 2004 12:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAUJDpMQ035138; Tue, 30 Nov 2004 12:13:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from navgw.mccc.edu (navgw.mccc.edu [198.133.170.231]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id iAUJDmPY035021 for ; Tue, 30 Nov 2004 12:13:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from pinner@mccc.edu) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu ([198.133.170.1]) by navgw.mccc.edu (SMSSMTP 4.0.0.59) with SMTP id M2004113014134206103 for ; Tue, 30 Nov 2004 14:13:42 -0500 Received: from TH103A ([198.133.170.246]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.11.4) with ESMTP id iAUJDhxV027889 for ; Tue, 30 Nov 2004 14:13:43 -0500 (EST) From: "Kate Pinner" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] thoughts on a sleeve Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 14:13:38 -0500 Message-ID: <651C586D272B24428B045AA9CF0B2F90A90C82@mcmail01.wwc.mccc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 In-Reply-To: <651C586D272B24428B045AA9CF0B2F9001D2A793@mcmail01.wwc.mccc.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/610/Sun Nov 28 14:32:08 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/610/Sun Nov 28 14:32:08 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I see the 'shawl'. I'm asking about the small horizontal band that appears to me to be above the bodice (it spans the front opening) and almost totally disappears behind the shawl. On my monitor it appears as grey or dark grey-lavender. I would assume it is a shift, or other undergarment. Seems to me we had a discussion of colored shifts/chemises a while back Kate -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of otsisto Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 1:18 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] thoughts on a sleeve The gray area of the dress is a "shawl" there is an Italian garment word for it. If you note, near the necklace you will see the line indicating the rest of the "shawl" that is not covering the black gown. Basically I have some material similar to the sleeve material. I have 15 yds of it. So I will make an under gown of the red with band of black on the end of the sleeve and make a black overdress with goldish ties. Thank you for the help. I find several analyzing a picture gets me more ideas and people point out things that I missed and I find more things. Again, Thank you. De -----Original Message----- Would all this be over a grey (or dark lavendar, depending on your monitor) undergarment? Or another gown? Kate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 30 18:27:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAUNROYI002685 for ; Tue, 30 Nov 2004 18:27:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iAUNQLJo002698 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 30 Nov 2004 16:26:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAUNPHBc062763; Tue, 30 Nov 2004 16:25:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.129]) by net.indra.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id iAUNPD5E062703 for ; Tue, 30 Nov 2004 16:25:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B8102F491 for ; Tue, 30 Nov 2004 17:25:09 -0600 (CST) Received: from CAT1 (t1p213.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.214.215]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 405C9C48F for ; Tue, 30 Nov 2004 17:25:08 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] thoughts on a sleeve Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 17:25:09 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <651C586D272B24428B045AA9CF0B2F90A90C82@mcmail01.wwc.mccc.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/611/Mon Nov 29 07:02:55 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/611/Mon Nov 29 07:02:55 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The Camicia/Chemise looks to be smocked in red. It would have been made of white linen, usually of handkerchief linen weight. underneath the camicia was probably a breast wrapping and not a corset or the layers helped in achieving the form. From what I understand no one knows for sure about what, if anything was worn under the camicia. Over the camicia (depending on region) is a gown that can either open in the front, back sides, back or sides. The red I would be lacing the side so that I can lace them on my own. Sleeves would be attached to this gown. The gamurra(?&sp?)overdress which I kind of think as a glorified tabard goes over the red gown. Hope this helped, De -----Original Message----- I see the 'shawl'. I'm asking about the small horizontal band that appears to me to be above the bodice (it spans the front opening) and almost totally disappears behind the shawl. On my monitor it appears as grey or dark grey-lavender. I would assume it is a shift, or other undergarment. Seems to me we had a discussion of colored shifts/chemises a while back Kate -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of otsisto Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 1:18 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] thoughts on a sleeve The gray area of the dress is a "shawl" there is an Italian garment word for it. If you note, near the necklace you will see the line indicating the rest of the "shawl" that is not covering the black gown. Basically I have some material similar to the sleeve material. I have 15 yds of it. So I will make an under gown of the red with band of black on the end of the sleeve and make a black overdress with goldish ties. Thank you for the help. I find several analyzing a picture gets me more ideas and people point out things that I missed and I find more things. Again, Thank you. De -----Original Message----- Would all this be over a grey (or dark lavendar, depending on your monitor) undergarment? Or another gown? Kate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume